Voice of the Martyrs

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
There was a lady who came to our church. She
had been imprisoned in China for many years, and she
was in solitary confinement, and she felt so alone. And
as she prayed, God gave her a vision. She said
it was Americans praying for her. And she said, I
just was amazed and humbled and so strengthened seeing why

(00:23):
would Americans be praying for me. I've always thought of that.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
As we pray, we.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Think is this really going to matter whatever? But think
God may be enabling somebody in prison to see and
to hear our prayers and to be encouraged.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Jesus never promised his followers an easy path. In fact,
he told his disciples that the world would hate them.
He sent them out as sheep among wolves. Jesus's words
came true in the life of the Apostles, and they're
still coming true today in the lives of his followers
around the world. Join host Todd Nettleton's we hear their
inspiring stories and learn how we can help right now

(01:01):
on the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Welcome again to the Voice of the Martis Radio My
name is Todd Nettleton, and we are in the studio
today in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, with Vicky Hartzler. She is the
current chair of the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom,
And maybe you're not familiar with that. It is often
said as you surf in sort of the abbreviated form.

(01:23):
Before that, Vicky was a congresswoman from the state of Missouri.
Before that, she was a volunteer at the Voice of
the Martyrs. That's what it says on her official bio
on the government website. Vicky, Welcome to the Voice of
the Martist Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Thank you, Tod. I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, we are very glad to have you. And I'm
guessing a lot of our listeners aren't super familiar with
the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom? Can you
give us a thirty thousand foot view? What is the Commission,
why does it exist? What's your job there?

Speaker 1 (01:54):
You bet?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
I was establish about twenty eight years ago by Congress,
and we are a by partisan, volunteer, nine member commission
and we are charged with monitoring the religious persecution around
the world and reporting to Congress and the President and
the Secretary of State on what is going on and
making recommendations to them and what we can do through

(02:15):
our foreign policy to help advance religious freedom. So it's
a very important mission. It's a real privilege to be
able to speak up for those and to help give
Congress and the President some tangible suggestions on what we
can do.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I find it interesting that as a nation we have
said international religious freedom is important, like this is something
that we care about. When we sit down at the
table with other government leaders, this is going to be
one of the topics we're going to discuss. What's the
genesis of that or why do you think our government
has said yet this is such an important thing that

(02:49):
it's going to be part of our foreign policy.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
The members of Congress back there twenty eight years ago
when they passed the International Religious Freedom Act, it did
set a new standard for our country the other countries
to have it says that in our foreign policy, it
elevates religious freedom advocacy equal with economic security and national security.
So in theory and hopefully in practice, when our Secretary

(03:11):
of State goes and visits with another country who may
be interested in our F sixteens or some military engagement
or lower tariffs or trade, you know, there can be
a discussion, Hey, we're interested in lowering your tariffs. But
you know what, You've got some pastors that are imprisoned.
And that's a real concern to us because we believe
that religious freedom is the most fundamental right for any

(03:33):
human being, and it's so foundational to our country. But actually,
our Commission gauges the country's religious freedom on international standards,
and many of these countries around the world have signed
on too treaties international religious freedom and human rights, different treaties,
and part of that guarantees religious freedom, and so we're

(03:55):
able to say, hey, you have signed on to this
treaty where you're guaranteeing religious freedom, but yet you're denying
it to people in your country, And so it opens
up the opportunity for that discussion. And that's where America
is a city shining on a hill and we're based
in faith. It's such a part of us, and we
have a real opportunity to influence other countries to embrace

(04:18):
it as well.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
So what does that look like on a daily basis.
I know I got an email today there's a hearing
coming up about religious freedom in Russia, So I know
there's some aspects of those that are public hearings yes,
But what else is how do you do that job?

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Well, first of all, we monitor. We have a staff
about twenty full time people washing DC and they're experts
and monitor different parts of the world trying to see
what's going on there, and they visit with people on
the ground. But then as commissioners, we also go and visit.
I just got back from Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. I've been
in Turkey and our media and we'll be going to

(04:55):
other countries. So I spent two weeks over in Kazakhstan
and Kyrgyzstan. We visit with faith groups there, NGOs, government
officials to really try to get an assessment for what's
going on. We use that to produce our annual report
and to make recommendations to our government which countries are
the worst offenders and we call them countries a particular

(05:17):
concern and those countries according to the law. When the
president gets that, if they go ahead and make that designation,
then they should look from this about fifteen items they
have to choose from. They could put sanctions, stop military aid,
stop foreign aid, or they can do carrots and sticks
as well. But they have this list they can choose

(05:38):
from and we also make recommendations to Congress. Here's a
law that you could pass that would be helpful to
advancing religious freedom. And we have hearings to raise awareness
of this as well. We bring in experts. We have
briefings from experts for the commissioners as well, just trying
to gather information. We're that watchdog. A lot of countries
don't like us because we call them out, and we

(06:01):
have a special watch list designation as well, and if
you know, they don't they don't want to be called
out for these things. So some countries won't let us
come visit. They deny US feces, such as India, and
of course the really bad actors China and North Korea
and Iran went anyway. But other countries are willing to
let us come and they're open to some discussions. And

(06:23):
so I'm hopeful that maybe we can help move the
needle because many countries, especially on the border, are interested
in having good relations with the United States. And if
we put this forward, its hey, this is important to us.
It makes them take a second look at their policies
and hopefully they'll change them.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
We're talking this week on Voice the Martyrs Radio with
Vicky Hartzler. She is the current chair of the United
States Commission on International and Religious Freedom. Vicky, when you
go on a trip like that, how do you try
to sort of not get the polished up version of Hey,
welcome to our country. You're from the US government, so
we want to show you all the shiny things, And

(07:03):
how do you kind of get behind that or get
underneath that to say, Okay, what's really going on here? Right?

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Well, first of all, their government doesn't set up the meetings.
You know, we request means, our State Department over there,
our embassies help reach out to these groups, and so
we meet with them privately, and we do try to
filter through because some of them are kind of scared,
you know, to give the actual what's going on. But
if we visit with enough people and then compare their

(07:30):
stories and visit with other people, and then you know,
look at other entities such as Voice of the Martyrs,
we kind of get a better picture of really what's
going on to make our assessments.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
My sense is that this isn't a job for you,
This is kind of a passion project. How did you
get involved in religious freedom issues and how did God
call you to this work.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Sure, Yeah, being a Christier it's a totally volunteer position too,
So yeah, it's not a job, but it is a passion.
And you know started obviously, I became a Christian when
I was nine years old, and when I became a
young adult, I was teaching and things. But somewhere along
the line, I started receiving Voice of the Martel magazine
and I started reading these stories and it really shocked me.

(08:13):
I mean, to be honest, growing up as a young
person whatever, I did not know that there was still
religious persecution going on. I grew up in a small
town on a farm, and my life was pretty sheltered there.
And I just would read the Bible stories and think, oh,
that's so sad. It happened in the past, and you'd
hear in history about martyrs, but today, you know. And
then I got tortured for Christ and read Richard's story

(08:36):
and became more familiar with the organization here, and my
heart just broke. And when you're reading the Bible about
a family of Christ and someday we all will stand
before Jesus, thrown from every nation and every tongue, and
it's really as these are my brothers and sisters that
are hurting. I had no control over where I was born.
You know, I could have been born in one of

(08:57):
these other countries and not had these opportunities ease, and
I could be the one being beaten for my faith
or have to choose, Hey, I'm going to kill your kid,
or else you need to renounce your faith. And it's
just it just broke my heart. And so I've always
prayed for them and taken that verse in Hebrews thirteen
three to heart to remember those who are in prison
as if you were their fellow prisoner, and those who

(09:18):
are being mistreated as if you were suffering alongside them.
And that's a command. That is something we are supposed
to do, not just live our own life for ourselves.
And so I've always had that awareness, and then found
out about volunteer opportunities here. So our church is just
three hours away, and so I contacted you back in
the early nineties and said, hey, can we come down anyway.

(09:41):
I organized two years different mission trips from our church.
We came down and we helped here, and I remember
still preparing Bibles for Christians in China. Wow. It just
you know, we pray over those Bibles and to think
that who's going to have this that someday I'll meet
them in heaven. I'm not going to meet him here,
but you know, pray that God would bless and protect him.

(10:01):
So when I was a State Rep. I was a
teacher in State rep. And then a mom for a while,
and then I was asked to run for Congress, and
the Lord made that possible. It worked out in twenty ten,
and so I was sent to Congress and I wrote
down my goals, and one of the goals I wrote
down was to be able to be a voice for

(10:21):
those who cannot speak for themselves, for Christians around the world.
And so when I was in Congress, I was always
looking for opportunities for what I could do to help
be their voice. So I've always had that heart. And
then I left Congress in January twenty three and then
went through a season of Okay, Lord, what's next? And
then out of the blue, I was called by Steve

(10:43):
Scalief's office, who's the majority leader in the House, and
Steve said, hey, are you interested in being appointed to
the US Commission on International Religious Freedom? And Speaker Mike Johnson,
who's a friend of mine said hey, you know, I
think you'd be good, and so we prayed about it
and I just felt like, Hey, this is what God
has for me. And so that's how I ended up
appointed to the Commission. And it's just a labor of love,

(11:05):
and I just feel like it's an opportunity to serve
the Lord, serve our country, and serve others.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
As you think back through all those years and you've
had the chance now to meet persecuted Christians, you've advocated
on their behalf. Are there some particular stories that you
still carry with you or people you've met that you're like,
you know that person was a hero to me.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, well, yes, There's a lady from China that I
met with a few months ago whose husband is still
in prison in China but she got out. But she's
a believer and she's trying to raise her daughters here
and all that she's going through, and just said, please
pray for him, and you know, I think of her.
But also when I was in Congress, you have the

(11:51):
opportunity to adopt people who are in prison through the
Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission, and I adopted three pastors,
including Wangy, who are in China who are in prison
right now, and so regularly, you know, praying for them.
I would give speeches on the house floor for them,
I'd do press Releasa's write letters. And he's still there,

(12:15):
you know. And I saw out here in your four
year a picture of him, and yeah, I think of
him often. And there was a lady who came to
our church and I think she was connected from voicing
the Martyrs a few years after our mission trips here,
but she had been imprisoned in China for many years
and she came to our church and through the interpreter

(12:36):
share her story and I remember just weeping hearing her story.
But something that stuck out to me is that she
said she was in solitary confinement in her cell and
she just felt so alone and was praying God. I
just I just feel so alone. And as she prayed,
God gave her a vision. She said it was American's

(12:59):
praying for her. Wow. And she said, I just was
amazed and humbled and so strengthened seeing why would Americans
be praying for me? And I've always thought of that.
As we pray, we think, yeah, who, you know, is
this really going to matter?

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Whatever?

Speaker 1 (13:20):
But think God may be enabling somebody in prison to
see and to hear our prayers and to be encouraged.
And she eventually was able to get out and came here.
And one thing she said just about Americans, she said,
I'm just in awe of you all. She said, you
have everything, You have money, huh, and yet you still

(13:43):
serve the Lord. Why do you do that. I'm just
so amazed that there's Christians here in America. It was
a total different perspective for us. She said, we had nothing,
We just had Jesus to hold on to. But yet you,
in the midst of all this temptation of material and
other power and everything you have, you're still here on

(14:03):
church and you're still caring, and you're still praying for others,
and you're giving, and you're sharing the Gospel. She was
encouraged by us, which was just humbling to us.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
We're talking this week on Voice of the Martyrs Radio
with Vicky Hartzler. She is the current Chair of the
US Commission on International Religious Freedom. You mentioned the fact
that when you were in Congress, this was a passion
of yours. You made the speeches, you wrote the letters,
you tried to advocate talk to our listeners who may
be their congress person doesn't have that passion, and they

(14:37):
would like to sort of light a fire under them
to say, no, this does matter. How do we urge
our leaders to care about religious freedom if maybe it
doesn't come naturally to them, And what should we expect
as citizens, as voters, as people who are in contact
with them, What kind of response should we look for.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, I think that Voice of Martyrs magazine. This is
one of the most powerful things you do. You get
it every month and make an appointment to see them.
You're a member of Congress when they have district offices,
so you can make appointment and visit with them and
give them some copies and just say, hey, I want
you to look at this. You know, and do some
research on your member of Congress. Many of them are
people of faith, and say I know you're a man

(15:21):
of faith or a woman of faith, and I didn't
know if you were aware of all of the Christians
are being persecuted around the world. Here's some resources, telling
some stories, just telling them what they can do because
a lot of members of Congress don't know. It's like
you could help write a letter to the ambassador on
behalf of this person right here in this article. Would
you consider doing that or would you consider when you

(15:44):
go on a codel, which is a congressional delegation, that's
what we call it. Sometimes we go on trips, like
I was on Armed Services Committee, so we traveled to
military bases around the world, and we would visit with
foreign leaders. But on your congressional delegation, here's a pastor
who's in prison. During your conversation, could you mention their
name and ask them to release them. I heard an

(16:06):
interview you did on this show earlier a while back
with former US Senator Sam brown Back, and he told
a powerful story about how he did that in one
of the countries, and the president of the country turned
to his aid and they did a little discussion in
their own language, and then turned around into Sam and said, okay,
you know, and they let him go. You know, you

(16:27):
know a lot of these government officials may not even
know that these people are being arrested or tortured or
whatever they may. But they may not, and it's just
having to somebody from America speak up for him. So
as a constituent, I'm a former teacher. I believe knowledge is,
you know, letting people know this is going on, and
then give them a couple of specific things you ask

(16:48):
them to do. Would you write a letter for them?
Would you speak up for them when you go to
that country? And I think they'll certainly take it to heart.
You can always follow up with a staff member. Hey,
we met with a congressman a couple of months ago.
Has he had a chance to write that letter yet?
And of course the more people you get, the better
it is. So if you get your whole church, not

(17:08):
just one person to call, if you have thirty people call,
that'll make an even more greater impact.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, what happens on the other end of that process?
So my congressman writes a letter to the ambassador from Eritorya,
let's say Eritrea. So my congressman writes the ambassador, Hey,
these people are in prison, please let them go. What
happens on the other end of that conversation when that
ambassador gets that letter. Is there a call back? Do

(17:35):
they care or is it like.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Well, you know, we don't have many levers with them,
and that's the problem. It depends on how much the
US engage with them. But they don't take military they
don't take purning they get so their level of caring
what the US thinks isn't very high. And from what
I've been told in other instances, it's kind of ignored.
So that's where you might have to go through another avenue,

(17:56):
maybe another country, And that's where Voice and Martyrs has
connections other countries. Maybe another country could have more influence
influence there, but like India, for instance, I met with
the ambassador in India. He requested a meeting of mine
because I was on Armed Services Committee. And during our discussion,
we were talking about military aid and we do want

(18:18):
India to be our partner, especially as we look at
China and we want them to wean themselves off of
Russia military equipment, etc. So we are having a discussion
and I had just seen a Voice of the Martyr
magazine a story about some persecution of some Christians in India,
and so I brought that up in the meeting and

(18:40):
he said, oh, we don't have any persecution. We have
religious freedom in the country. And I said, well, actually
i've read that's not true. Heres. Oh I'd be happy
to see example, I said, Okay, So I copied the
Voice of the Martyr article and I wrote a handwritten
letter to him and said, here's what I was talking about.
There is concerns and what do you think. I never

(19:01):
heard back from him. It's still I made my point.
It was registered. And then that also said something to
me as I was a decision maker making decisions on
what we should do with India. It changed my opinion
a little bit too on how friendly we want to
be with them if they're not going to be responsive.
So this is kind of the quandary. So there's other

(19:22):
purposes and outcomes that could come from these interactions.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, and I think we bathe the whole process in prayer,
and you know, the Lord will move the right levers.
Even if we don't see any lovers, the Lord can
move some of those. We're talking this week on Voice
of the Martyrs Radio with Vicky Harshler. She is the
current chair of the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom.

(19:46):
You mentioned the different administrations. It seems like religious freedom
ebbs and flows as a priority depending on what all's
going on in the world, depending on who's in the
White House, depending on lots of other factors. Are there
ways that we can have influence in that process as believers,
as people in our case, American citizens, are there ways

(20:10):
we can make sure it stays a higher priority and
doesn't sort of.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Ebb absolutely by you know, letting the White House know,
just sending emails or making phone calls saying this is
still a priority, we want this, and to your congressmen
and women and senators same thing, bringing that up. So
when and talk to their staff too, because I used

(20:34):
to get you know, reports, The elected representative can't be
everywhere and I had twenty four counties, you know, so
you can. But my staff reports me what people are saying,
and you get a feel for what people care about.
So what's the number one thing? You know we talked about.
What are people talking about? Well, maybe you know the economy,
or maybe gas prices are too high or Vicky, can
you help with this or that? You know, so if

(20:57):
they're hearing a lot that this is a big issue.
And this is an opportune moment because last year the
Biden administration did not make recommendations. We you surf issued
our report early in the year in twenty twenty four.
They're supposed to have sixty days, I believe or ninety days.
I can't marry exactly, but the administration then to go

(21:18):
ahead and make the recommendations are not and they didn't,
and we kept waiting. Of course there was an election year.
It kept waiting waiting, and they never did. So now
we are just operating. Our government is still operating under
the recommendations from twenty twenty three. But at any moment,
Mark Rubio and the President Trump could make those designations

(21:39):
from twenty twenty four. Plus we've issued our report for
this year and we're waiting on them to issue those things.
So it's sitting on his desk. President Trump has been
a real champion in his first administration of religious freedom
as well as international religious freedom. We know he has
set up his own commission in the White House for
faith based Office, as well as a Religious Freedom Commission

(22:02):
focused on the United States protecting religious freedom. So we're
not sure yet where he's going to be and how
much of a focused international religious freedom is going to be.
So this is a prime moment for listeners to contact
the White House as well as they're elected representatives in
Washingt d c. And say, hey, we want this to
be a priority. As well as talking tariffs, and talking

(22:24):
national security and military. You know, let's help advocate for
this too. And I know it's in you know, it's
in their heart, but it needs to be brought up
and make sure it's a priority.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Absolutely, Vicky. As we close out, we always like to
equip listeners to pray. So I'm thinking of you and
the Commission, but I think more broadly, I'm thinking of
Christian people who are serving in our government, in leadership
roles in Congress, right down to administrative roles and actually
carrying out the policies. How do we pray for our

(22:55):
brothers and sisters who are serving in those government positions.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yes, thank you for asking. And first of all, there
are many there's this impression that there aren't any Christians,
and there are many Christians, many Bible studies, many committed people.
But it's hard at times, certainly, So pray for them
for wisdom, for favor, and for clarity, discernment on right
and wrong, how to vote, and how to prioritize their time.

(23:19):
You know, you only have so much time, so you
could write a letter on behalf of somebody who's persecuted,
or you could advance some other bills, you know, so
making sure they have the priorities, but pray for their families,
their marriages, but then most of all, just that God
would be glorified in our nation and that there'd be
revival ultimately, so that we return to this biblical worldview

(23:42):
that our nation was established on and decisions we make
on that. So prayers of a righteous person are powerful
and effective. And I know many times I felt the
prayers of people and it sustained me. So I appreciate
you calling for prayer and people taking time to do that.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
We have VOM radio listeners that every week write down
I have heard from them. They write down in a notebook. Hey,
here's the pray request this week, So you will be
prayed for this week. I can assure you of that.
And thank you so much for serving the Body of
Christ under persecution. Thank you for being our guest this
week on Voice of the Martyrs Radio.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
That is my honor. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
And we mentioned Vicky started out as a volunteer coming
to serve here at the Voice of the Martyrs. You
can do that too on our website Persecution dot com.
There is a page where you can sign up and
learn more about coming to volunteer here at the Voice
of the Martyrs. We have people coming every week to
serve alongside of us here and we always appreciate their service.

(24:43):
Thank you for listening taking the time to be with
us this week. I hope you will be back next
week as we continue to talk about what God is
doing all around the world, especially in restricted nations and
hostile areas. We'll be back next week right here on
the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network.