Voice of the Martyrs

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
In the process of learning the local language of the
specific people group we live amongst. And I asked the
person who is kind of teaching me, you know, what
are the three things you think of when you think
of your religion, your worldview? You're this animism And they said, blood, fear,
and sacrifice. Those were the three words that they used
to describe the first thing that comes to mind. If

(00:21):
you were to ask me that question, it would be
the exact opposite. I would think man, grace and mercy
and kindness that we have in Christ.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Jesus never promised his followers an easy path. In fact,
he told his disciples that the world would hate them.
He sent them out as sheep among wolves. Jesus's words
came true in the life of the Apostles, and they're
still coming true today in the lives of his followers
around the world. Join host Todd Nettleton is we hear
their inspiring stories and learn how we can help right

(00:53):
now on the Voice of Martyrs Radio Network.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Welcome again to the Voice of the Martyrs Radio My
name is Todd Nettleton. We are in the studio today
and Bartlesville, Oklahoma with Brother Kevin. If you're a longtime
listener to Voice the Martys Radio. You know, many of
our guests don't have last names as far as VO
Radio goes. Brother Kevin is another of those. He is
serving in Asia and we will talk about his call.
We will talk about how he ended up there. Kevin,

(01:17):
Welcome to the Voice of the Martis Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Thank you. It's an honor to be here.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
It is great to have you talk about how you
ended up in Asia. You're not Asian, no, but you
live there, you work there, you minister there. How did
God lead you in that direction?

Speaker 1 (01:31):
I had grown up in Texas and wanted to pursue
a career in the military, and spent a lot of
time thinking about the plans that I had made for
myself that I think I convinced myself that were God's plans.
But you know, really, in college, began to be challenged
to lay those things down before the Lord. And when
I did that, it became clear that that is not

(01:51):
what He had for me. Started working at a local
church in pursuing what I thought would be full time
vocational ministry in the States, and I'm at my wife
in March of twenty ten, and on our first date,
she said in October, I'm moving to Cambodia for a year.
Date fast, right, right, So we dated fast. We got

(02:12):
engaged about a week before she left. So she spent
a year in Cambodia through a number of different situations
and avenues and pathways. The Lord just drew my heart
to the nations, and I got to visit her while
she was over there. I started doing seminary and kind
of getting prepared to go, and we both just fell
in love with Southeast Asia and had a friend ask

(02:33):
us about a particular country we had not thought of
or heard of or paid attention to in any way.
But the more we learned about that the situation there,
the more it became clear that, man, this is, this
is exactly what we felt like the Lord put on
our hearts to be amongst the unreached, to be in
a place where not many others had gone previously. And
so we were blessed to be able to get to

(02:54):
launch in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
As we think across Southeast Asia and Asia more generally,
there's different sort of levels of closeness and openness. How
hard was its as a Westerner and as a Christian
to say, hey, I want to come live in your country.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, they are a what we would classify as a
closed country, meaning they are not friendly to missionaries. You
can't be a missionary. So we had to come in
under what we call a platform, which is essentially a
business that we work at that provides us and issues
us a work permit and a visa and these other
type things that allow us to live there in country.
But our missionary work is not anything we can do

(03:30):
openly or publicly, and so we now open to business
in twenty sixteen that we operate that allows us to
live and work there, especially in the region we live in,
you know, a way that is legal and is legitimate,
but also gives us the access to do the stuff
that is not public that we get to be a
part of.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
How often do the people there look at you as
an American and say what are you doing? Like what
why are you here?

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, you know, we got those questions a lot where
we live it it does not make a lot of
sense for an American to move there, and especially in
the place that we live in country, So there were
a lot of questions. But you know, people understand business,
people understand money, and so being able to just have
a public identity as a businessman who runs and operates

(04:18):
a business, and it's a legitimate business that does what
it says it does. I think people began to understand that,
you know, that's kind of why we're here, and it
might not make sense to them, but it kind of
placates their curiosity to some degree. But I think there'll
always be a bit of behind the scenes, what are
these people doing here?

Speaker 3 (04:36):
We're talking this week on Voice of the Martist Radio
with Brother Kevin. He and his family live and work
and ministry in Asia. Kevin, you mentioned you're in a
closed country. I know it's a place where the government
doesn't necessarily want the church to grow. There is also
some religious aspects to persecution at the village level. When

(04:56):
someone comes to Christ and they face persecution, Hey, what
does that look like and be what's driving the persecutors,
what's motivating them to come against the Gospel.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
There are two predominant world views where we live, Buddhism
and Animism, and Buddhism makes up in the majority of
the population, so it is in many respects a Buddhist country,
and the particular form of Buddhism is very Epicurean and
so there is this deity, this force, this God, this being,

(05:33):
these powers that are very distant, and they don't really
interact with us. We don't really interact with them. But
if we kind of do the right things and live
a certain way, then we can have life and wealth
and prosperity and all these kind of things. And so
there's a huge gap between the spiritual forces at work
and your normal, everyday life. On the other hand, the

(05:56):
minority population, certainly where we live especially is animist, and
so they don't identify as Buddhist. They identify as those
who we worship, the spirits. And you know, it's interesting.
We live in a village where they will do animal sacrifices,
where they will consult witch doctors and spirit doctors. It

(06:18):
took me a while to understand the persecution side of it.
When someone becomes a believer where we live, when persecution happens,
it's not because they become Christians. None of these people
know what Christianity is. They've not heard the Gospel, they've
never heard of Jesus. And you say, well, then why

(06:39):
are they being persecuted. We have to remember we have
been so deeply shaped and formed here in the West,
so in Western Europe, especially in North America, from scientific
discovery Newton Darwin. You know, we have such a historical
legacy of things that shaped our philosophy, and it's so

(07:03):
ingrained into our world that we don't really even notice
it or think about it. And so one of the
manifestations of that is we're very individualistic of a here.
And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It
can be bad, But we ask questions like where do
I want to go to college, what do I want
to do as a career, who do I want to marry? Right,

(07:23):
and again, these are good questions, but they have been
admittingly largely shaped by things like the Enlightenment and Western
culture and ideology, and we just need to accept that
that's a reality. Whereas over in Asia a very different situation.
They are what we would say, more collective in their
ideology and in their social interactions. And so if you

(07:47):
can imagine, you know, living in a village and all
of you are participating in these spirit sacrifices to the spirits.
If we don't do this, then the rains won't fall
on our rice, and Grandma will get sick. And if
you can imagine, then someone just decides to completely check
out of that and they say, I don't want to
be a part of that. Right, they don't know why

(08:09):
they've stopped doing it, but what they do know is
this is an affront to all of us. You've now
put the entire community at risk because what you do
affects all of us because we have this very collective
way of thinking. The consequences of this is not the
rain won't fall on your rice field, it's not going
to fall on all of our rice fields. It's not
that your grandma is going to get sick, it's all

(08:29):
of our grandmas are going to get sick. And so
there is this threat to the community that they have
to respond in one of two ways. Either you have
to recant and the pressure will come in. You know,
nine out of ten will not endure when that pressure
either from the authorities, from the village, from family, they're
going to say I'm out and they are that seed

(08:51):
that falls on the on the rocks, that sprouts up
and then is scorched by the sun. And so if
that doesn't happen, then the next step kind of in
the iteration of what section looks like is they need
to be removed from the village, and that can happen
in a number of ways. Typically it takes the form
of houses being burned, disassembled, driven out of the village, threatened,

(09:12):
I mean, you name it. I mean, it really can
be a spectrum of response. But it's it's all kind
of happening based on this this social and cultural set
of norms that become threatened. And we have tons of
friends and good relationships with people who've experienced some really,
really terrible things. But those who endure, man, they're such

(09:35):
an encouragement and a blessing to us and minister to
us as we minister to them. It's an amazing place.
And the people there are just serving and loving the Lord,
and they're risk in it all.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
So it's it seems like a very fear based, very
much spiritual practice. Yeah, I'm afraid of all the spirits,
so I gotta see exactly right, whatever makes them happy.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah. I remember I was in the process of learning
the local language of the specific people group we live amongst,
and I asked the person who is kind of teaching me,
you know, what are the three things you think of
when you think of your religion, your worldview. You're this animism.
And they said blood, fear, and sacrifice. Those were the
three words that they used to describe the first thing

(10:17):
that comes to mind if you were ask me that question,
it would be the exact opposite. I would think, man,
grace and mercy and kindness that we have in Christ
as Christians.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
We also we have blood to talk.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
About, right, we have blood and sacrifice, and we have sacrifice.
But it's cast out all fear right right away.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Fear that's right. So it's interesting how those almost like
a mirror image of each other. But the darkness and
the light that's right. We're talking this week on Voice
to the Martyrs Radio with Brother Kevin. He is a
gospel worker living and working in Asia. Are there some
specific stories that you can share with us about what
some of our brothers and sisters have gone through?

Speaker 1 (10:55):
You know, we have friends who are in prison, We
have friends who have been kicked out of their village.
We have friends who are living in tents because they've
been displaced. Man, they say things like, you know, for
the joy set before me, I get to endure this,
and they use this language that I just wasn't expecting
someone to be experiencing persecution to respond to it with

(11:17):
such faith and perseverance, and the way the Lord is
strengthening them, it strengthens us.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
You know, we talked about at the village level, they're
going to kick you out. They don't want you there
prison says the government's getting involved now because they're locking
you in jail. Yeah, well, so does the government kind
of support the village people who are persecuting, or do
they get involved at a sort of a separate level, or.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
So at a federal level, their hands are not in
a lot of it. They don't want to create some
international human rights incident, and so they kind of it's
the village and district level, and so the jails the
prisons are going to be kind of controlled. At the
district level, they can be doing these things with you know,
the national government having zero knowledge. And so the vast

(12:00):
already of the persecution is happening. The majority of it
is at a village level, but it can go up
to the district and it's very easy for them to
just kind of do what they want without any kind
of repercussion oversight.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah. So really in that situation, the Christian has no
one to appeal to.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
They don't and that's part of what you know, we're
hoping to, you know, be a part of how we
can strengthen the church there is through not just being
able to help in ways that we can help as
they try and appeal these things, but also you know,
you think about why does the one intent endure? What
is different about the one? Likely the one endures because man,

(12:40):
they have people walking and shepherding them, and so we
get to be a part of training and equipping those
who are shepherding and discipling and walking with these believers
so that when persecution does arise, that they have local
brothers who are being shepherds and being pastors and walking
them through that. And we've seen just the Lord work

(13:02):
in his spirit move through kind of raising up and
equipping pastors and leaders and future pastors and future leaders,
and just to see the church really be able to
take ownership of their responsibility of caring for the persecuted
and seeing the Gospel go even to those areas where
they know terrible things are going to happen.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Are there some qualities that you consistently see in those
the one out of the ten that does endure persecution
and stays faithful through that versus those who walk away
in times of trial. Are there some things you can
point to and say, yeah, we really want to.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Develop that, Yes, there are. I think it goes back
to again some of the differences maybe between our part
of the world and there part of the world. And
again maybe it's part of the individualistic thing. But we're
very comfortable with We talk about the imminence of Christ,
that he's with us, he's our friend, and I think
that's true. But I think sometimes what that can lead.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
To and we process that as in an individualist culture.
We process that as Christ is with me.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
With me, Yes, and he's walking with me, and that
is true. But I think it can get to a
point where it becomes like I can put Christ in
my pocket, and I can put him on the shelf,
and when I need to, I can take him down,
I can carr him with me, and then I can
put him away. And what I think we sometimes fail
to think about is he is imminent and he is

(14:24):
God with us. That is one hundred percent true, but
he's also this transcendent God. And when I think about
Christ in the way that Revelation paints him as a
warrior with flames for eyes and a sword coming out
of his mouth and his robe dipped in blood. And
I see this transcendent, powerful, mighty, great, terrifying reality of

(14:45):
who Christ is a couple. I mean, he is the
lion in the lamb. So I think having a proper
balance of both of these things, but I think we
err on the side of his imminence, and I think
we need to think more about his transcendence. That he
is a powerful God, and he is, and I think
over there it's the exact opposite. Man, They're okay with
the spiritual world being this other worldly, powerful, scary, terrifying thing.

(15:08):
But I think those who endure are those who balance
that reality out of what they know of the spiritual
world with this new thing, and that is Christ in us,
that he is near. And I think those who we've
seen endure have embraced and balanced out the transcendence of
God With man. This is someone who's he's not like

(15:30):
the spirits. He's good and he's kind, and he's with
me and he loves me, and he's near to me.
And it seems like every time you hear a testimony
of someone who has endured the fire. In the flames,
they come out testifying of His nearness and his goodness.
And I think, man, that's such a powerful picture that
we can have as we balance it on the other

(15:52):
end and we think about how mighty and majestic Christ is.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
We're talking this week on Voice of the Martes Radio
with Brother Kevin. He and his family lived minister in Asia. Kevin,
what are the biggest needs of the church as we
think about the church, as we pray for them, what
are the biggest needs?

Speaker 1 (16:09):
The first thing is I have taken a poll many
many times as I've interacted with some of the leaders
of churches and asked them, what do you need from me?
And by me I mean the Western foreign you know,
guy who's here. They've never asked for help in the
area of evangelism. They haven't even asked for help in

(16:30):
the area of church planning, although that's a big part
of what we do. They always ask for the same thing,
and they're asking for theological education at the root of it. Well,
you teach us the Bible. We don't have access to
hardly any resources. We don't have Google that we can
just look stuff up. We don't have a seminary. We
don't have a pastor who's been a believer for thirty years.

(16:50):
That we have nothing, and we're trying to as faithfully
as we can shepherd this flock. You know, the Book
of Hebrews talks about leaders watching over their soul, and
we think about these guys who are out here, who
are shepherding these souls to greater intimacy with Christ, and
they have just zero access to anything. And so the

(17:11):
first thing I think, you know, I would ask for prayer,
and I think they would ask for prayer as well
as you think about believers in this part of the world,
is that those leaders would understand and fully bear the
responsibility that they have of shepherding the local church. That
they would see that man, this is a task and
responsibility that God has gifted them with, but also comes

(17:32):
with their serious language that Paul and others use in
scripture of the responsibility that they have of shepherding the flock. Man,
this is the bride of Christ and as overseers and
as elders, and they have a huge task. And so
I think my prayer is that they understand to greater

(17:52):
depths what that means and looks like. And then the
second thing I would say, you know, is for the
flock themselves. If you keep reading that verse in Hebrew,
it talks about our responsibility to submit to these leaders,
not begrudgingly, but joyfully. And so I think that also
extends to me as well. I'm not an elder, I'm
not a local pastor, and so I think I can

(18:14):
also demonstrate what submission to these guys looks like as
the shepherd, as the leaders of these local churches, and
so that the church would respond to these leaders who
are leading and guiding and shepherding them to greater intimacy
with Christ. I think for the church to respond to
that in submission, joyful submission.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
How does the sort of collectivist culture come into the
church in that regard? Does that make it easier to
submit to the leader or does it make it harder
to be the leader because normally everybody's sort of in
this together, and now you're saying you're going to lead us.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I think in all things,
there are neat pro things that you find, and then
there are kind of maybe difficult, more difficult things that
they're going to have to work through because of that
But what I have found is that there is a
particular kind of unity that is expressed in the church
that I long for as an American who grew up

(19:15):
here and didn't necessarily get to experience the way they
rely on each other for more than just a word
of encouragement, but in many ways for their life.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
And my house just got burned down. I need a
place to stay.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, I've got to be taken care of when the
body is hurt, when one member is hurt. To see
the church actually respond in pain and in agony and
in self sacrifice for the sake of the member and man,
that's a beautiful thing that I am just so encouraged by.
And I think part of that is maybe one of

(19:48):
the effects of the collective mind that is more common
in Asia in that part of the world, that they
respond in this way. When one person's hurting, we're all hurting.
And I think we on a philosoph level will agree
to that here, but it manifests much differently. It's it's encouraging,
it's very encouraging.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
We're talking this week on Voice of the Martist Radio
with Brother Kevin. He and his family minister and work
in Asia. What are the ways that VOM is helping
in the ministry there.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, you know, it's it's it's so neat. I mentioned
those kind of local situations that you know, we just
hear about all the time, and I'm thinking in my
head of two or three specific ones where families that
were displaced, driven out of their village, houses burned down.
You know, VOM has been able to, through cooperation with
local believers, you know, been able to find this one,

(20:41):
you know, specific situation, provide this family with land so
that they could build a house, rice to eat. They
are living in a tent in front of the police station. Wow,
it's been neat to see the church take care of them.
But so much of the church's ability to take care
of them has been a result of the partnership with

(21:02):
VOM and how they've come alongside the church there and
offered to provide funds for food, funds for resources for them,
and so lots of what you think are little things
but turn out to being extremely meaningful and impactful once
you're on the ground seeing it firsthand. How VOM has
come along to provide that support for these families who

(21:22):
again are just walking through extremely difficult circumstances, and I
think they're so encouraged that not just as their local
people geographically around them that they know and love them,
but man, these people on the other side of the
world are like thinking about me and helping me. Who
am I? You know? I think it's so powerful for

(21:42):
them to see that the Church universal cares about them
and loves them and knows their story and knows what
they're experiencing. And we've seen just some incredible testimonies and
heard powerful testimonies of how the Lord has used VOM
and the Church here to love and support those who
are experiencing these things overseas. So it's a huge blessing. Man,

(22:05):
it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
I would encourage our listeners that happens because people give
to support VOM. You can give at VOM radio dot net.
We would love to have you participate, and you can
actually designate your gifts to go to help Christians driven
from their homes to meet that specific need. Kevin, as
we wrap up, is there anything else you would leave

(22:28):
our mostly Western, mostly comfortable Christian audience with as we
think about our brothers and sisters in Asia.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, you know, this is one of those things We've
been over there for now over a decade, but I
still am American. I still come from Texas, and I
still think about these things, and I feel like I
have to constantly challenge myself. And if I'm having to
do that, I can only imagine others living here would
as well to ask myself, do I really believe to

(22:58):
live as Christ and to die is gain? We're probably
not going to experience in the West the things that
they experience. Probably no one's going to come kicking your
door down and taking you off to jail. But Paul
doesn't give qualifiers on that statement, and so I think, man,
I would just want to encourage the church here, believers here,
but also those who are living in other parts of

(23:19):
the world as well. Yeah, just to think and dwell
on do I believe that that's true? Do I actually
honestly believe that to live is Christ and to die
is gain? Because I can be very comfortable even in Asia,
and I can start looking around and going, you know,
I kind of like this kingdom I've got and I
don't want to actually leave this, And so yeah, I

(23:40):
would just encourage us to think and dwell on that
to live as Christ and to die is gain, and
I get to experience firsthand the joy of brothers and
sisters who that statement is more literal than it will
be for me, and the joy and the perseverance and
the faith. You know, I'm over there teaching them the Bible,
but they're teaching us endurance and faithfulness and perseverance, and

(24:02):
I want to be like that, and so for me
to live as Christ, and I want that to be true.
To die is gain.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
What a great challenge to end with Kevin. Thank you
so much for sharing your heart. Thank you for your work.
Thank you, and I concur with your Brazilian friend. You're
just getting started. We hope to have you back as
you get further down the road in missions in ministry.
And I would encourage our listeners as you are praying

(24:28):
for Asia this week, as you're praying for Kevin and
his family, you're praying for our brothers and sisters going
through persecution. Read that passage, Consider that passage to live
as Christ, to die as gained. Lord, May that be
true for all of us. And I hope you'll join
us again next week. Every week we talk about what
God is doing around the world, especially in restricted nations.

(24:48):
And hostile areas. You will come away and encourage. You'll
also come away with a longer prayer list. So I
hope you'll be back with us next week, right here
on the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network