Voice of the Martyrs

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
When Pastor jan On Lee, she and her husband were tried.
They were just notified in the prison and said, oh
you were given fifteen years and nine years seven months.
So Pastor joan On Lee was smiling. She said, oh,
Ali Lujah, she said, Praise the Lord. I got the
like the talk reward.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Jesus never promised his followers an easy path. In fact,
he told his disciples that the world would hate them.
He sent them out as she among wolves. Jesus' words
came true in the life of the Apostles, and they're
still coming true today in the lives of his followers
around the world. Join host Todd nettletons we hear their
inspiring stories and learn how we can help right now

(00:43):
on the Voice of the Martyrs Radio Network.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Welcome again to the Voice of the Martys Radio My
name is Todd Nettleton, and we are in our studio
today in Bartlesville, Oklahoma with Bob Foo. You who have
listened for a long time to be on radio. You
have met Bob previously. He is the founder and the
president of the Aid Association. He is also the author
of a fantastic book called God's Double Agent. You can

(01:06):
find out more at ChinaAid dot Org. Bob, welcome back
to Voice the Artist Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Thank you Todd for having me again.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Let's start out with John Zao. We talked about him
last time. Served seven years in prison, released from prison
in China, but then stuck in China, not not allowed
to leave the country. His wife is American, he has
permanent residency in America. He could come back if the
Chinese government would allow him to leave. What's happening with

(01:36):
his case?

Speaker 1 (01:36):
You know, he was entitled to come back to reunited
with his family in the US, and actually already got
a ticket supposedly flying back Las Dren Even the Chinese
passport agency you sued him a new passport. But then
the night before he was supposed to fly, and he

(01:57):
was told by the public security agent said, oh, sorry,
we made a mistake. The passport was an error, and
you are not allowed to travel after you were just
recently released from prison, and it's up to your behavior
for another perhaps five years. I've called exit ban, so

(02:18):
he's not allowed to travel out. But he took that
as a sign from the Lord. He said, well that
means I still have another five years ministry here and
he started all over again. Wow, So he started the
house church in his home. If the ccip's intention is
to restrict his impact on spreading the Gospel, that is

(02:43):
a miserable failure, right, that's backfiring, backfiring. He was baptizing,
still baptizing people.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
With the two CCP guards traveling with him. Oh, I
have some hostage pastors Incidual Province. They're waiting for me.
We want to have fellowship. And after he baptized like
I think five or something New Christians, and the escort
him back basically said, oh, that's crossed the line. You baptized. Read.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
If you're going to meet with people, that's okay, But
if you're going to baptize people, no, that's that's too far.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah. He was holding five pm prayer meeting every day.
He was the one in charge of the prayer for
the prosecuted, and he was even able to visit some
of the family member of the prisoners in a kind
of amazing way. I think the Lord is using him

(03:39):
mightily under this second mistake.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
And it's just amazing to me that, Like I say
that from the Chinese government perspective, it just seems like
the best thing they could do for themselves is just
to put him on a plane and get him out
of the country. But they're not doing that, and obviously
the Lord is using it.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
That's right, I think maybe, I mean he sees that
maybe that's the lord best purpose is not finishing yet.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
How is his family back here in America doing, because
obviously it's been seven years that he was in prison
and now it's been more than another year since. How
are they doing?

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, during these seven years and not a single family
visit was allowed in his prison and you know, his
wife and two children now grew up and they already
married and mine god his PhD even from University of Michigan.
I mean, they were not allowed to have any prison
visit at all, and despite of their repeated request. But

(04:40):
the two boys were able to meet with him on
the day after his release. So after he was released
back home from prison, they spent some time together in
tom Shaw, Yeah, the city where he lives. So of
course his wife, Jimmy Powell, is still in North Carolina
for you know, separated for so many years. It's very

(05:03):
very hard, very very hard to her. She has to, yeah,
be a substitute in a teacher in a local school
to make a leaving.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
I would encourage our listeners to continue to pray for
Pastor John Zao, pray for his family and pray for
for soon release or for God to continue to use
him as he has been during his time in China.
We're talking this week on Voice of the Martist Radio
with Bob Fu. He is the founder and the president
of the China Aid Association. So, Bob, we talked about

(05:36):
that individual case. Let's talk more broadly, what is happening
with the church in China. Is there any change? Is
there any new trends that you're seeing in terms of
how persecution is happening. What's it like to be a
follower of Jesus in China right now?

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, I think there are two major trends, new trends
under the Empress kind of for the new wave of persecution.
Number one really, for the first time since the called
for revolution, the Communist Party start criminalizing the ties and offering.
I mean they're multiple, multiple pastors and housetag leaders were

(06:16):
arrested under the name of fraud. Basically, the tweat, the
offering and the tithing is money thory fraud, and.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
This is such a key thing, because what the Chinese
government says is your church doesn't have permission to exist,
so your church doesn't legally exist, and yet you're collecting
tithes and offerings, so you're collecting ties and offerings for
a church that doesn't exist. So that's fraud from their perspective.
If you or I call the Chinese embassy and say hey,

(06:46):
why are you persecuting these pastors, they will say, oh, no, no, no,
we're not this says fraud. We're cracking down on financial crimes.
This is not a this is not a religious issue
at all.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Deliberately, yeah, so they're.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Hiding the fact that they're persecuting Christians. And for the pastor,
there's really no way to defend yourself, like I am
a pastor and yes, we did take an offering, and
so how are you going to say, well, you know
that was an offering. But then they say, well, your
church doesn't exist, you don't have any paperwork.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
That's right. You lead the legal kind of framework of
the commiss parties try to set that up very well.
So I mean just imagine, I mean this, like the
offering and tithing is a spiritual worship to Christians as
a historical transition. For two thousand years we practiced that.

(07:39):
And yet now I mean, like take the latest case
that the twelve house church leaders from the Limfan Gold
Lamp Church, you know the lamp Stand Church. You are
very familiar that they had been severely crackdown. I mean
that's back to two thousand and five, right, there were
twelve church leaders were arrested and was sentenced and you

(08:01):
met even interviewed one of the pastor's daughter, esther On
during seventeenth and July twenty sixth. So all the twelves
were sentenced to from fifteen years to like three or
a few years imprisonment. So the senior pastor and the
kind of executive pastor, jan Ron Lee received fifteen years,

(08:23):
her husband pastor one show one received nine years seven months,
and the rest of them, you know, nine years, eight years,
et cetera. And under the name of fraud.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Fifteen years is a long prison sentence in China. For
like when Wang Ye was sentenced to nine years, it
was like, you know, nine years, that's a longer since, right,
we've been seeing now this is six years longer than that.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's right, This is the longest one since Alimmiti and
this is the weaker Christian pastor. Yeah, he received fifteen years.
Remember under another name called leaking state secrets to foreigners.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Of how old is this pastor that was sentenced to
fifteen years?

Speaker 1 (09:04):
I believe he's he's fifty. Okay, he's fifty, so another
you know, fifteen years so hard. But guess what I mean.
That shows another side of the persecution. When Pastor jan
On Lee, she and her husband were tried as the
head of the fraud, you know, separately, and so that's

(09:24):
why after their secret verdict was pronounced without even being
mid public, they were just notified in the prison and said,
oh you get you were given fifteen years and nine
years seven months. So Pastor on Lee was smiling, I mean,
according to the scription. She said, oh hally Loujah. She said,

(09:46):
praise the Lord. I got the like the top reward,
except yeah, that was a direct quoe.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, yeah, fifteen years and I she said, the Lord
looked at me and sees, I need a rest or
something like that, a sabbatical. That's very long.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Talk a little bit about that trial, the fact that
all this trial goes on behind closed doors. They don't
really have a chance to offer a defense, and they
just are notified like, oh, by the way, you got
sentenced to fifteen years. It doesn't seem like there's even
a hint of fairness or a hint of we want
to follow the law.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Oh no, it's totally fabricated. And the trial didn't start
after the we're in prison for almost four years without
a trial. Four years already in prison, and the prosecutors
who called I mean the even through torture, threat other
believers because in order to build a case for fraud,

(10:44):
you know, you have to ask us those who are
being frauded. There's the Christians, I mean supposedly they have
to write a confession said, you know, I was frauded
making donation to these pastors. So if you read the
almost sixty I think pages of verdict paper, it's like
a modern day book of acts. I mean, the companist

(11:06):
party didn't realize they're leaving a good records for these
Christians because since the listed nine from nineteen ninety four,
how much the believers offered and the church hall was grown,
and how many meeting points, like you know they have
more than fifty thousand members, right, Wow, on multiple points,

(11:29):
I mean meeting point.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
So the government has documented the church.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
They accumulated they said, oh in some the whole past
thirty one years, the frauduland money tith in offering a
total seventeen million, which is about two and a half
million US daughters. So the church continues to grow, I
mean the Early Ring Covenant church. They continue to have
new baptism despite past one ye nine years imprisonment. Month alone,

(12:00):
we have several church leaders tried and sentenced. Another trend
was the government using a new law basically forbidding Chinese
Christians to travel overseas to have Bible study or tended
any Christian conference. So multiple pastors were arrested and also

(12:21):
sentenced under the new name called illegal border crossing. Well
actually pastor Doohn Thaw's name right, but now they make
it like a new charge.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
So many if you're leaving the country for any kind
of very religious purpose.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Even legally, like you hold the legal passport, go through
the normal process, clear the customs. But if they found
you went to South Korea or Malaysia, or you know,
to attend a Bible study or revival or spiritual conference
or prayer conference, that's called illegal border crossing, they are

(12:59):
arrested and that you could be sentenced to years in prison.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
And one of the messages that that sends is the
Chinese government is watching you, even if you're not in China,
Like if you go to Korea, if you go to Malaysia,
if you come to the US, the Chinese government is
watching who you're meeting with and what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Oh, they have a sufficient resources sending their agents everywhere. Yeah,
I'm including the United States, right.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
I mean, how is the church responding to all of this,
because it seems like they're under so much pressure and
every year it gets a little more pressure and the
Chinese government passes a new law or they start enforcing
something differently, how is the church responding?

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, in the past two weeks, we have seen the
major escalation of attacking children because they are holding the
VBS like equivalent of writing a Bible.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, school, and the government definitely doesn't like that.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
No. I mean just three days ago there was another
the church was being readed with twenty one of dollars.
Eight children. They were found like holding a like a
Bible reading. All of them were arrested. I mean, one sister,
a Christian lady who has even deep depression and history,
and she was sentenced to twelve days administry of detention

(14:19):
after being tortured. Yeah, by five men. So still going
on this part of the design church, the Beijing Zion
Church planted in South China. So it's on on. So
the Communist Party seems to very focus on preventing the
children from access to the scripture. I mean, this is

(14:40):
so important. We need to give the Bible scripture, you know,
in the hands of those children. And the Bible, of
course is still very badly needed.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
We're talking this week on Voice the Martes Radio with
Bob Fu. He's the founder and the president of the
China Aid Association. He is also the author of a book,
God's Double Agent. If you haven't read it, you should.
It is fantastic. Tells Bob's story and the story of
his work in the church in China. Maybe you don't
know his background. He was in China and was leading

(15:14):
in the House church. There was actually spent some time
in prison. He tells that story in God's Double Agent.
Really escaped China kind of at the last minute through
Hong Kong before it reverted back to Chinese control. I
tell him the book reads like a spy novel because
he's running around and doing amazing things for the Gospel.
So want to encourage you get a copy of the book.

(15:36):
Their website is ChinaAid Dog Bob. One of the things
that has changed over the last number of years is
the persecution that's happening, or the pressure that's happening even
within the Three Self Church, the registered state, a proof church,
not immune to persecution, not immune to pressure from the government.

(15:59):
What is happening along that line. And we've talked before
about the fact that you used to sing how great
there art at the beginning of the service. Now we
want you to sing how great is the Communist Party?
And you used to have a picture of Jesus in
the front of the sanctuary. Now we want you to
have a picture of President Chijen Ping. How is that
going with the three Self Patriotic Churches.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, you used to have the tank commandments on hanging
on the wall, and then the religious police inspected and
didn't basically point out our great leader Cgping wouldn't like
one of the commandments. The next day, the first commandment
was removed to become non commandment commandment. Yeah, so I
met with the Jewish lady. She said, two over Jews.

(16:44):
If the tank commandment with all the first one, there's
no commandments, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
That kind of cancels the whole thing out of.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
The console, the whole thing out. So it is, I
mean it's increasingly challenging now. I mean it suits the enemy.
Of course, it's a spiritual welfare, right, I mean, who
would think that that would happen now? I think the
government sanctioned church used to be the supposedly legally registered,

(17:14):
government protected free church, right at least the claim right.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
But now and the story was to the to the
unregistered churches. The story was, well, if you guys would
just register, you wouldn't be persecuted, right, All you have
to do is joven the three self church and everything
will be fine.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
But not anymore, that's not true. Nope, not not anymore.
Those unless you're totally they called synesized. Let me say,
you have to sing the praises of President seeking opinion
instead of Jesus, and he's seeing the Communist Party's national
anthem instead of the doxology the prison of the Lord.

(17:53):
And then you know, if you don't compromise on that,
even the even on the symbolic way, like if you
don't take down the cross from the rooftop of your church,
you will. I mean, like the two pastors in Wendo
were sentenced to like fourteen years twelve years imprisonment for
refusing to volunteerly taking down the cross. That's the only crime. Yeah, right,

(18:18):
of course they use a like financial fraudulent and again
yeah to accuse them. And another Three Self church pastor
who was also arrested during the fourth Demolition Cross campaign
and sentenced to a few years imprisonment, and he led
like hundreds to Christ in his prison, and then he

(18:39):
was re arrested again after he withdraw from the Three
Self the you know, finishing the prison, he said, no,
I'm done with the Three Self and she established an
independent mission board and continue the ventualization. He was arrested again,
but recently, just this week, he was arrested again third time. Wow,

(19:00):
and he's waiting for a sentence. Yeah, so this is
the new phenomenon. Basically, he showed his true color. Basically,
he improve himself as an anti Christ. Basically really whatever name,
as long as you called church. He wouldn't like it.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
I mean that it was never about joining the three
self church. It was about control and do what we
tell you to do. Yes, yes, let's get an update
on one more pastor, which is Wangi. And we mentioned
him serving nine years. What what do you hear? Do
you hear anything from how he's doing in prison, how
is his wife and their son? And just give us

(19:39):
an update on his situation.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, I mean, as we all know, yeah, he's still
serving the nine years. And I was told that can't
share too much again on the source that he was
doing fine, and of course I in the past since
six seven years in p then he was only allowed
to have like me Ford family visits each time like

(20:06):
five minutes and sometimes even with a phone call. Let's
constantly visit.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Am I remembering? Right? December will be seven years.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
She was arrested twenty eighteen.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
So okay, So yeah, so he's got two years left
after December.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
He has told he was composed in like two three
books already in his brain that was not allowed to have.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
A right and reminds me of Richard Warren Brand writing
writing in his mind in.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Prison a long list of prayer items. He is still
doing that over a thousand items I heard, and so
to go through that, it takes a little while to
pray over right, Yes, and he's praying for the American too,
and for revival. He's a you know, really very passionate

(20:56):
on the Kingdom of God. And since why and now
his sons already in the finishing I think high school,
So they're struggling to even find a higher education situation
because they're not allowed to have a passports or travel.

(21:16):
So trying to resists the brainwash effort. But there was
a little victory I think after some fight, the government
allow their sound Joshua to be homeschooled for at least
two years in the past two years be the Christian homeschool.
At least the mother was able to continue to minister

(21:39):
from him. Yeah, praise the Lord for that, Yeah, Bob.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
As we wrap up, I know we could talk for
hours about what's happening in China, but as we wrap up,
we always try to equip our listeners to pray. How
can we be in prayer? And we've talked about the
government pressure, we've talked about pastors in prison on false
fraud charges, but but how can we pray for China?
This week.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, I think I want to raise the issue of
the overseas Chinese church. You know, among maybe fifteen hundred
or so overseas Chinese church in North America, US and Canada,
really very few churches are there to pay attention and

(22:23):
even offer a prayer meeting specifically for the prosecuted in China,
for their fellow brother and sisters. Because the CCPs so
called transnational repression effort, they send their spies, they send
you know, into the church. They are able to even
compromise some of the Chinese pastors. Like in Los Angeles

(22:46):
during the Chinese Communists National Day, a pastor would hold
a raise up the Chinese Communist flag on the church sanctuary,
I mean on the really in the pulpit. And yet
they rarely celebrate the American Independence Day overall, and they

(23:06):
are American citizens. H So, so I'm partially with the
intimidation hostage taking of their family members.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
We don't want to endanger our family.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
So the fear took over their reverence to the Lord.
I mean, the fear of the Communist Party really overwhelmed them.
So I think we need to pray the Holy Spirit
can really remove this fear and of course, the US
government can do more to really remove this transnational repression effort.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Amen, Bob, as you have ways of talking with our
brothers and sisters there, please tell them we are praying
for them. Please tell them the on radio listeners are
praying for them. American Christians are praying for them. And
thank you so much for continually being a voice for
them and for being our guest this week on Voice
of the Martyrs Radio.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Thank you. The view voice is a very critical voice
for them, for the voiceless brother and sisters. Thank you
for doing this all these years.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
Well, we are very thankful for the privilege of serving
our brothers and sisters. If you are just now joining us,
you'll want to go online to vomradio dot net and
hear this entire conversation with Bob fou. He is the
founder and president of China Aid Association. Their website is
ChinaAid dotorg. We'll also give you a link in the

(24:28):
show notes this week at vomradio dot net. Before you
go this week, I want to let you know about
a special opportunity to meet face to face with persecuted Christians,
including some that you've heard right here on VOM Radio
vom's twenty twenty five National Conference, the theme is from
the Field, will be held September twenty five to twenty seven,

(24:51):
and we still have a few and I emphasize that word,
a few seats left. Bobfu, who we just heard from
this week, is going to be there. There will be
some other speakers that longtime view On radio listeners will recognize,
and in fact, we're going to record a podcast interview
live in front of an audience during one of the
breakout sessions. The conference starts Thursday evening September twenty five.

(25:16):
It runs all day Friday and through mid afternoon on Saturday.
We're going to have main sessions, breakout sessions a little
smaller where you can ask questions. Several meals are also
provided during that time. It's a chance for you to
meet face to face with persecuted Christians and those serving
them on the frontlines of ministry and to come and

(25:37):
visit VOM. I would love to see you at the
VOM National Conference. We'll give you a link to the
registration page in the show notes this week, So go
to vomradio dot net find the show notes for this
week and we'll link you to the registration page, and
I want to emphasize this is first come, first served.
When we're out of seats, we're out of seats, there

(25:57):
aren't anymore, so I would encourage you to go and
register for the VOM National Conference right now. One other
thing for our podcast listeners, it really helps us when
you rate the show and leave a review on your
favorite podcast app. That helps our ratings, which then helps
us reach new people with the stories of persecuted Christians.

(26:17):
So after you register for the VOM National Conference, please
take a few moments leave a rating and review for
VOM Radio on your favorite podcast app. And I want
to encourage you to be back with us next week.
We talked last year with Hanna Mengestab, whose father is
in prison in Eritrea, and we're going to have a
second visit with Hannah next week, hearing about how God

(26:40):
has worked in her life in the last year since
she went public with her story. That's next week. I
know it'll be an encouragement to you, so make sure
you're with us right here on the Voice of the
Martyrs Radio Network.