PRETTY OPEN: I'm Solving My Father's Murder Part 1 with Madison McGhee

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebina, a space where no
question is off limits and storylines become lifelines. The views
shared by our guests are meant to inform, entertain, and empower.
From the laughs to the lessons, Just remember tough times
don't last, but professional home girls do enjoy the show.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back to Pretty Private, exchegarra Ebine here and I
hope all is cute. Now, before we get into this
week's episode, I just want to thank you all for
the love on the season premiere. So many of you
have reached out about the solo episode and also the
rebrand okay, and it truly truly means the world to me,

(00:48):
So thank you, thank you, Thank you. Also, a lot
of y'all connected with the combo around burnout and as
you know, being a creative and stepping into entrepreneurship can
feel like a lot. As y'all always know, I always
say I feel like I'm working like a two dollar hope.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
And we all know it is not always glamorous.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
So I really wanted to provide you with, you know,
just real talk, you know, So thank you all for
seeing me, hearing me, listening to the show, sharing it
with your friends, and you.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Know, rocking with me as we pivot.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Also, if you're new here, you know, hey girl, hey,
make sure you subscribe to the show, leave a five
star review, hold me down, do not hold me up,
and also share the podcast with someone if you feel
like it will resonate with them. I can I tell
you how many emails dms I receive on a regular
basis on people telling me how this show has saved

(01:38):
their lives. So please, please please make sure you support.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Now let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
So this episode is a part of the Pretty Open series.
That's when my guests come on the show and they
are not anonymous. And I am joined by Madison McGee.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
She is so cool, super smart. She is a journalist,
podcast host, and all the creator of Ice Cold Case,
a podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
She launched to solve her own father's murder.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Okay, when I tell you Madison's podcast, but have you
binged listening to every single episode? Like I think I
listen to her entire podcast when a day, y'all, Like,
I'm being so serious to be honest with you, I
was just so fascinated by how she produced it and
how she's using this medium to actively investigate and seek

(02:28):
justice for her father. So in part one of our conversations,
you know, Madison opens up about what it's like to
share her family story so publicly, and especially when some
of the main suspects are within her family, which is crazy.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
We also talk.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
About the emotional weight of just uncovering painful secrets, the
strain it put on her mental health which you all
can only imagine, and also just the financial sacrifices she made,
including going into debt just to bring this story to
life and fight for justice.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
We also get into the behind the scenes reality a
podcast in which I tell y'all podcast and what have
you feeling like you are trying to find a cure
for a disease.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
On the name of Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Podcasting requires our time, energy, and heart to make sure
to produce a show that's like hers. So from researching
and writing to editing and promoting, podcasting is no small feat,
especially when the story is as personal as Madison. So
it is a labor of love and the Madison Case
a mission with real world stakes. So Madison reflects on

(03:34):
what it's like to navigate the true crime space as
both a creator and someone emotionally tied to the case.
You know, there's a constant balancing act between storytelling and sensitivity,
between seeking answers while also protecting your piece. So there
are so many unique challenges and heavy responsibilities that come
with this, and Madison doesn't shy away from it at all. So, y'all,

(03:57):
I cannot wait for you all to listen to part one.
So get ready, I'm solving my father's murder.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Starts now, all right, So to my guests, thank you
so much for being on a show. How you doing,
how you feeling.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
I'm good, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having
me me too.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, we've been kicky in because it's so disclaimer. I
really don't listen to a lot of podcasts because I
podcast so much. I don't know if you feel the
same way. Yeah, but it's right because it's like I'm
always hearing somebody in my head. But y'all, when I
tell you about our guest Madison McGee, when I was
listening to her story her podcast Ice Cold Case, I

(04:34):
have never listened to anything that had.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Me like, wow, like, what the fuck is going? How
many times you get that reaction?

Speaker 5 (04:43):
Every time?

Speaker 4 (04:44):
It's I have that reaction myself and then friends, family, listeners.
It's always like, I mean, I'll have people come up
to me that I'm friends with and they're like, so
catch me up because I'm listening, and I'm like, what
is going on? And so, yeah, it's funny. People from
all corners of my world are like, what the.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Fuck right now?

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Did you ever imagine your story grow the way it
has and resonate with so many people?

Speaker 5 (05:12):
Oh my god. Never. Never.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
I didn't understand really the gravity of everything.

Speaker 5 (05:20):
Right.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
I don't even know if I still do, but I
definitely couldn't have anticipated in the beginning sort of everything
that would transpire as a result of the show.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, you know, it's so funny because when I was
listening to your show and like obviously we're a podcast
or so like I'm listening to like the background, the details,
and I can hear you like you're breathing changing, and
I'm like, oh my god, like I can only imagine
how mentally exhausting this must have been.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Oh yeah, I'm so it's funny. I don't think about
it too much anymore because it's sort of just become
a part of my day to day. But I am
so much more tired.

Speaker 5 (05:59):
Than I used to be.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
And my friend joke because they're like, I'm about to
be thirty this summer, and they're like, oh, you're just
getting old, that's why you're tired. And I'm like, no,
Like I take a nap every day at three o'clock.
Every I took a nap before this. I just every
day at three o'clock.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
I am tired all the time.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
My friend the other day was like, Madison, You're my
sleepiest friend, Like you're always so tired.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
And I really truly.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
Think it's because of all of this, and like the
work that I'm doing is so exhausting, like mentally that
like I'm just exhausted all the time.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, I mean you're an investigator. And also I don't
think people understand when it comes to podcast and like
podcasts and there's a lot of work.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
Yeah, it's it's an easier lift compared to television and film. Right,
it's a harder lift because normally when you're doing a podcast,
you're doing it by yourself, so they kind of like
trap you into it by being like, well, look how
much easier it is just to Mike and a little
bored and you hit record and like, isn't that so

(06:58):
much easier than like making a movie. You're starting a
YouTube channel or whatever, and you're like, that seems like okay,
that seems a lot easier, and then you start doing
it and you're like, oh, but I have.

Speaker 5 (07:07):
To do everything. I have to edit, I have to
post it.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
I take notes, interview it, you recappin oh much stuff.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
And I think that's where they kind of like bait
and switch you into thinking it's easier, because in theory,
if you had the same resources as the television show,
yeah it would be. But you don't, and that's normally
why you podcast, and so that it's a lot of work.
It's it's a full time job. It's you're doing a
ton of different roles. You're you're shifting into different responsibilities

(07:36):
all the time and trying to kind of compartmentalize everything
in your brain.

Speaker 5 (07:40):
Right, so much, it's so much.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
And even when I was listening to one of the
episodes when you had a conversation with Daryl and you
was like, oh, I wish I would to die, wish
that way I did that, And I'm like, you'd be
so caught up in a moment that it's kind of
hard for you to even like remember or just keep
track of everything because you're literally living in the moment.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
Oh yeah, I mean, and then I was like, I'm
obviously in fear of my safety at this time. I'm
my security guard, I'm the interviewer, I'm the producer, I'm
thinking about what the show is going to end up
being with this interview, I'm like thinking a hundred things
all at the same time. And then you leave and
you're like, I wish I had had something else. But

(08:19):
in a real world, in a bigger production, a higher
budget thing, there would have been a producer like taking
notes the entire time, going Okay, we really wish that
we would have this. Hey Maddison, ask this, and like
you have all of that, but you don't have that,
So you're just kind of in the moment trying to
think of all this stuff.

Speaker 5 (08:35):
I had a little bit of prep.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
I had some questions I wanted to ask, But yeah,
I mean, once you're in that moment, everything just like
goes and you're like, I don't even know why are
we here, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (08:45):
I'm surprised a network hasn't picked you up. Have anybody
been reaching out to you? That's the Yes, they've been
reaching out laugh.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
Yeah, I mean, I've had a lot of meetings, and
the unfortunate reality is that my dad's case is not solved.

Speaker 5 (09:05):
They love to be not adjudicated, so.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
That is something that a lot of people want to
keep their hands off of, which, to me, the reason
I'm doing this, the reason a lot of people end
up doing something like what I'm doing, is to solve
the case. So a deal, a network of documentary, any
sort of thing like that isn't really like your thought.
Once it's all done, you're kind of like, well, this

(09:31):
was the point of why I'm doing this. I don't
want to wait until I've solved it a documentary on Netflix,
Like a documentary on Netflix might help me solve the case.
And so to hear that can get really frustrating because
it's kind of like, well, that's the whole point of
all this is to solve it. Like I'm I'm not
doing all of this to get a Netflix doc I'm
doing all of this.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
To solve it my father's death.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
So when you're telling me like, oh, call us once
it's solved, it's like, hopefully I've moved on with my
life by then and I'm doing something else and I'm
I'm happy and I've had closure, and yeah, it can
get really frustrating when you realize no, no one but
you is really a in it for the right reasons

(10:12):
or cares as much. And to them, it's like this
story is interesting, even more so if it's solved, and
then they start to see dollar signs and that's yeah,
it's it's a tough I mean, I work in entertainment,
so I'm not numb to it, but when it's something.

Speaker 5 (10:29):
So personal, it can get really frustrating.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, and I can only imagine, because why would you
want to relive this again? You know what I'm saying,
Like I don't want to go through this again mentally,
like I want to solve my father's murder and now
I want to move on with my life.

Speaker 5 (10:43):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
And you know, you'd like to think, Oh, wouldn't I
keep using Netflix as an example, we can change up.
Wouldn't Hulu or HBO want to be part of the
solving of a case. Wouldn't they want to like give
this person a platform so that you can getation out
there and then the case solved. But they're not in
the business of doing good. They're in the business of
making money. That's effect and not that I think that

(11:07):
the story wouldn't make them money.

Speaker 5 (11:08):
I think it absolutely would.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
But they feel this very weird obligation based on market
research I've never seen before, that viewers must have a
solved case at the end, they must have closure at
the end, and they think that if they present them
with a documentary or a story that doesn't end in
a full circle here it's all done type of situation,
that the viewers will be upset. And I'm not sure

(11:32):
that that's factional.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
I don't agree with that because I also feel like
somebody like me, I'm going to be so invested that
I'm going to try to help you get to the end.
Go as a viewer, and my argument is always that
you know anyone who's connected to crime, which a lot
of us are, even if you don't really realize it.
There's more unsolved cases in America than there are solved cases.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
So you're probably.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Connected to a cold case more likely than you are
a solved case, which means the reality for you that
you don't have closure through the judicial system is very high.
And so that's actually a more realistic picture of what
your life could look like when you don't go through court.

Speaker 5 (12:13):
What does closure look like? What does that mean?

Speaker 4 (12:17):
And that's more real to me and then hopefully, you know,
I do solve it and I get to experience the
other side of that. But right now, my reality is
that that's not true. And I've been meeting through doing
this show a ton of people where that's not their reality.
They've never gotten hurt, they don't have a solft case,
they haven't found their sister, they don't know who killed
their sister or their dad or their mom, and they

(12:39):
don't know what happened to their cousin who went missing
seven years ago. And you know, closure is a really
interesting word that we use to say closed, but that
doesn't necessarily closure and closed are not the same. I
think you can have csure in your life without necessarily
going through a court system and saying, oh, the person

(13:00):
is behind bars. So I'm now exploring kind of what
that looks like because that might, unfortunately be my reality.
I don't know, Yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
That's one of the biggest misconceptions that people have if
I started on true crime podcast, especially when the story
you're telling is your own. What would you say some
other truth some other misconceptions. Oh my gosh, because I
learned a lot through listening to your podcast, because I
don't really listen to true crime podcasts, even though I
love true crime. But I was like, yeah, you might
not always get closure at the end, and close and
closure does not mean the same thing.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
Yeah, And you know, there's a level of I'm curious
now if I do find out who did it and
it goes through kind of you will.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Find out like will I.

Speaker 4 (13:40):
Feel the type of closure I'm envisioning in my head,
you know, And I don't know, But yeah, I mean,
I think there's a huge misconception with closure. I also think,
you know, not to like toot my own horn about
my show. But there's this very wild misconception that, as
a true crime consumer, which I used to be very

(14:01):
fervently all the time listening to podcasts or watching docs
or whatever, it was, that all of true crime is
really family focused and victim centric.

Speaker 5 (14:14):
That's not true.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
There's a lot of stuff that's made that is not
made with the consent of the family. There's a lot
of stuff that's made true in direct you know, adversely
from the family. Families are not interested in something being
drummed up or something happening or you know, a certain
person covering a case for whatever reason. And it's really

(14:40):
interesting being in this world on sort of both sides,
on the journalism side and also on the family side,
right kind of what goes on behind closed doors with
a lot of these big podcast companies that are telling
or I would say, exploiting these stories, And it really

(15:01):
has given me kind of this interesting mission perspective journey
through what does it look like to help families actually
take on their own story and tell it the way
that their family member deserves it to be told. So
we'll see kind of what that what that journey looks like.
But I do think that, you know, that's a really

(15:23):
big misconception, is that a lot of people it's like
this don't meet.

Speaker 5 (15:26):
Your hero sort of thing. But a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Listen to these shows and think like, wow, like this
white guy who has a podcast is just amazing. He's
showcasing you know, this story and what happened to this person,
and I hope that like the family gets help. And
it's like, well, that person actually was like not hired
by the family.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
He never spoke to the family never spoke to.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
The family, making tons of money while the family is
left with like press on their doorstep now and this
case like right in the center of the media attention
and they're given no resources.

Speaker 5 (16:00):
And they have no idea how to handle it.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
And this person is like flying around making money and
doing all of this stuff and kind of becoming a
pseudo celebrity while the family has left to kind of
pick up these pieces now of like their family member
becoming also a pseudo celebrity, but they're dead, and it's
a really there's a lot of really great people who
work sort of against that and work to help families.

(16:23):
I think of like Sarah Turney is a great example.
Her sister went missing and they never found her, but
she thinks that her dad killed her sister and is
fighting for justice. And there's so many people who are
doing really, really good things to sort of counteract the bad,
but unfortunately the more popular ones are the not so

(16:45):
good ones.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
What's up, y'all is Shagara Ebine here and be sure
to follow me on Instagram and TikTok at pretty private podcasts,
and don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel at
the Professional Homegirl now let's get back to the show.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
You know, you make a good point. What was that
TV show that was on Netflix?

Speaker 2 (17:10):
The Serial Killer? And he was dating a black deaf guy.
Oh he had the glasses, white guy with the hair Dahmer, Yes,
Jeffrey Dahmer.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
And what you said.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
The family definitely spoke about that because they didn't have
any relationship, they didn't have no knowledge of what was
going on. They had to relive all of this and
they was gonna take legal suit. And I thought it
would be a good conversation to have on the show
of those family members who unfortunately their loved one was
passed away, but they have no like, no no relationship
or anything.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
Like.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
I'm like, how do you make a family?

Speaker 2 (17:42):
How do you make a movie off somebody's family and
you get there exploited, but you don't speak to the family.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
I think that is so crazy.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
Or make a donation on their behalf to an organization
that helps people like them. I mean, it's really interesting
what fame and money and kind of do to people.
And I think there's a way to balance that. I mean,
there's there's a level of fame that can give you
access to promote certain things.

Speaker 5 (18:09):
And I think there are people doing that.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
I think of like the Potito family, the Potito family,
Gabby Patito's parents, who are doing truly incredible things with
the platform that they were, you know, unfortunately handed because
of the circumstances.

Speaker 5 (18:24):
So there are ways to.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
Do it and do it right, and there are people
who are not doing.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
That so and I feel like they make it hard
for the people that want to do it right too.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
Oh yeah, I mean they It really is like they
want that apple spoils the bunch. You know, one family
member talks to one bigger show and they get completely burned,
and then when another person comes in that could really
help them, they're too upset by the circumstances that happen before.
They don't want to speak to anyone. And so it's

(18:56):
really sad. But I think that there's a lot of
people fighting against that right now. And I have a
lot of hope for true crime in general, and also
just this sort of victim centered storytelling that is happening.
And I mean it's a big inspiration for my show.
I could have, you know, gone into this and felt

(19:18):
really jaded, or I could have reached out to another
show and said please tell my story, but it was like,
I want to tell it myself and I want to
show people how you can kind of take ownership of
your own story.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
And I think you did such a good job when
it came to balancing you being a storyteller as well
as you live in a story.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Yeah, it's a weird line ride and sometimes I'm like,
it's such a whirlwind, and I really try hard to
be as unbiased as possible and really ride that journalism
line and tell the story. But I think the emotional
piece is really important, so people kind of understand what

(19:58):
I'm going through and to tell that side.

Speaker 5 (20:00):
It's a lot, and it's it's tough because I hold
it together.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
Fairly well, I mean you do, and like I you know,
I do a lot of work on myself, but there
are days where it's like I'm not getting out of
bed today, I'm not doing anything, like I'm so emotionally exhausted,
and it's tough.

Speaker 5 (20:19):
It can be really tough, and people understand that.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, people do not understand because because those other people
that are not so connected to a story, they clock
in and clock out, They clock in, they write a
little bit, they do some investigating, they make some phocal calls,
and then at six o'clock at the end of the day,
they go to dinner with their friends, and their life
isn't really impeded at all by this story that they're

(20:42):
covering and the case that they're covering versus with me
or people who are so closely related to the story.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
You don't get to clock out.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
Your family is hitting you up all the time, you're
stressed or having nightmares. It's like it's the whole thing
because it's your life and you don't get to clock
out of your life.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, no, that's a thing. How has social media played
a role in your investigation?

Speaker 5 (21:07):
It's played an interesting role.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
I think I'm partially I'm really bad at posting online,
so I would be better and learned to.

Speaker 5 (21:17):
Post clips, clip clips, clips clips whatever now.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Right, Oh, I gotta get better. But I will say
it's been kind of twofold. So there's been a lot
of support, which I am just so wildly grateful for,
even within my little community of people that have been
following me sans clips. So I'm very grateful that I've
built even that little bit of a of a following there.
But people are really supportive and then there's the other

(21:44):
side where people are very cruel.

Speaker 5 (21:48):
I get a lot of hate.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
From specifically my family family members who I think are
wildly suspicious.

Speaker 5 (21:54):
You've listened to you understand, And.

Speaker 4 (21:58):
So yeah, my family's kind of split in that way
where so my family is like, I'm really glad you're
doing this. This is amazing, like your dad deserves justice.
And then some of my family are like I'm watching you,
like I'm coming for you. You shouldn't be doing this, which
I'm like, okay, sure, okay, and then some you know,
comments and reviews reviews.

Speaker 5 (22:16):
Podcast reviews are my least favorite thing. I had to
stop reading.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Oh I hate fucking podcast reviews. Please do not get
me started.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, they're really bad, and it's podcast we use.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
Though I have some good ones and some are great,
and then every once in a while it's like one
star like this girl doesn't know what she's talking about,
or you know, I've got a couple that are really
that are funny. I did a read of mean reviews
on my podcast for actually a clip on Instagram. So
I did something online and I just thought it was
funny and I read a bunch of mean reviews and

(22:46):
like some of them were like this lady needs help
and like it was like very funny. But some are
not funny. Some are like actually, like they really they
know what to say to it.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, I had one and I want to pull up
on shorty because I was so mad.

Speaker 5 (22:59):
Yeah, and which I could.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
You can't respond to them, I know, I'm like, I
just want to divide myself.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
But you know what, it's a good reason why we
can't respond, because girl, we'll be going back and forth
with these niggas.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Like I know, I know I'd get canceled for sure
if I was like, all right, fine, let me tell
you why I blah blah blah blah blah. Right. But yeah,
I mean, I think social media has kind of done this,
this twofold thing have been a great way for me
to get tips. I mean, people reach out and stuff,
oh I grew up with your dad or I knew
your sister or whatever, and they'll write in some stuff
that's really helpful, and then you kind of have you know,

(23:32):
the the haters.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah. Yeah. Has there been a moment where grief hits
you in a way you didn't expect it?

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Oh? Yeah, wow, all kinds of ways. I think One
of the things I wasn't really prepared for was I
don't I've not been very good about reemptively baking in
time for like recovery.

Speaker 5 (23:59):
So that's when I record.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
A podcast episode, I get really emotional, like a couple
of days for a couple of days after and my
timelines are so crunched that I don't have time for that.
And so like, I'm about to put out an episode
late this week because I was supposed to be editing
all weekend and I didn't because I was like, I

(24:24):
just can't listen to this again.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
I just listen to this again right now, And.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
You know that's I should have just baked in more
time for that. And so I was not prepared for
like the weight that you know, recording an episode seems
so easy, like I've already written it, like I know
what it says. I've already done kind of the hard work,
which is like writing the thing. But there's something about
sitting in a room that's silent like to other people,

(24:52):
and like reading what I wrote that can get really heavy,
and that carries on for several days.

Speaker 5 (24:59):
I also, yeah, yeah, you got.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
You gotta take better care when it comes to that
because that can really fuck with is psyche.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Oh a hundred percent. And the other thing that I
was definitely not prepared for, which I'm grateful for and
unprepared for, was people coming up to me at events
or conferences or wherever, airports, elevators and they're telling me
their story. That's a lot to Yeah, it's the most

(25:28):
It's like my favorite and least favorite things ever.

Speaker 5 (25:32):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
I love to hear people who feel close to me
and resonate with the show, because that's part of why,
you know, I made it. I made it to solve
my dad's murder, but I also made it because there
wasn't anything for someone like me to feel connected to.
And so you know, when I meet people and they
tell me their stories, it's it's beautiful that they feel

(25:54):
the vulnerability and the connection to me to be able
to share. But I carry that shit with me for
like months, I still think about people's dads who went
missing and like all kinds of stuff. It's just like
it's so hard to like I have nightmares about people

(26:16):
and I'm like wishing I could help or do more.

Speaker 5 (26:19):
Can I Should I make a call? Should I try
to do something?

Speaker 4 (26:22):
And it's a lot, and there's a funny like they
call it trauma dumping, yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
Which I think is a funny word.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
But I yeah, I take on a lot of people's
stuff when I go to these events, and so there's
like a week long period after where I'm just like
purging all of the grief that like I have and
that other people have kind of put on me.

Speaker 5 (26:44):
And I was definitely not prepared for that.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, that's something that I had to deal with because
for my show, like I interview so many different people
from different walks of life, and a lot of the
people I interview are survivors.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
And one particularly interview was with this woman.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
She was dating a Syriac killer she didn't know, and
he ended up killing their child. And I didn't go
into details about how the baby was killed all this
other stuff because I also feel like she does a
really great job with you know, sharing that part of
her story in her book. But I also realized that,
like a lot of people have a very unhealthy relationship
with trauma, and I had to take a step back because,

(27:19):
like you said, it's very heavy, Like people email me,
they come up to me like I'm happy that this
is a platform where people feel comfortable and they can
share their stories.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
But I really don't want to hear because I.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Think about it, non stuff, all these emails I'm getting,
I'm like, y'all, it's a lot.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
To take in.

Speaker 5 (27:36):
Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. And now
I have, you know.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
Connections and resources that I can send them, which is nice.
You know, I've got friends who build like advocacy blueprints
for families and do other things, so that's nice to
be able to at least give them something. But you
can't unhear what you've heard. So it's like like, hey,
I didn't read it. Now, yeah I already I already know,

(28:01):
and you know, I can kind of feel better at
least because someone in the beginning it was like I
hear a story and I go, I have no idea
how to help you. And now at least it's kind
of like, Okay, I have something I can do. It's
not gonna, you know, change your life, but I can
give you something that's helpful. And here's you know, an
online resource or an email or whatever.

Speaker 5 (28:21):
And that feels a.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
Little bit better because it's like, Okay, I did something,
but you know, you still play those stories in your
head over and over, and you're like, I just wish
that these bad things weren't happening in the.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
World, like around trying to enjoy my drink, like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Girl, can you email me? I try to hear this
shit right now.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Wait, So how much have you spent financially because I
feel like you was traveling the stop like how much
have you really poured into investigating your dad's murder?

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Because I could only imagine like the quality of the.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Quality of your podcast, and then you putting money on
people books that have conversations with them.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
Like, yeah, I maxed out every credit card I have.
Oh wow, making this show after spending all of my savings,
and I am in like an insane amount of debt.
I'm actually like trying to figure out kind of what
to do now.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Oh, we gotta find you some money medicine.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, but I can tell I'm like, she spent a
lot of money on this.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
Yeah, I'm I'm probably at around like a little over
one hundred k in on like promoting the show, making
the show, interviewing people, flying out to talk to people
in person who don't want to be on the phone,
or trying to build that reporting connection with them, so
meeting them like face to face, or you have money

(29:45):
on people's books traveling to these conferences, Like they don't
pay me to go, so I have to fly myself out,
put myself in a hotel out there.

Speaker 5 (29:52):
For five days, so I have to get food.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
That's a party of marketing.

Speaker 5 (29:56):
Yeah, it's a part of marketing.

Speaker 4 (29:57):
It's a part of Yeah, like building a network of
people to help and to me, you know, meet pis
and people who can file foy us for me, and
doing all this networking, finding new listeners who could potentially
then listen to the podcast, and then I get ad revenue.
It's like it's this whole ecosystem, and it's very much
this like you have to spend money to make money,

(30:18):
but what happens if you don't have money to spend
and it's just like equitable thing, you know, it's a
whole thing. I'm very fortunate that my credit score was
good enough for now the only time in my life
that I had credit cards available with those limits. And now,
I mean, I'll never be able to get a credit
card again.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
No will iss you will, guess you will.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
So yeah, you know, there's a level of privilege there
to even be able to max out credit cards. But yeah,
I really believed in this and my dad's story and
sort of myself in a way where I thought I
would get really close to solving it. So I was like,
you know what, swipe the card, Swipe the card, swipe
the card. It's going to be worth it. I'm going

(30:58):
to solve this case. And yeah, here we are.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Now you're gonna solve this case, Madison. I feel it,
And now I'm serious.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I really do. Like I feel like when you are
hitting the wall, that means you getting close. And I
feel like you hit a couple of walls, and I'm like,
she gonna figure it out, Like you're gonna solve this case,
and then we're gonna have you back on and we're
gonna celebrate.

Speaker 5 (31:18):
Yeah. Perfect, I'm ready.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah, because I feel like you're so close.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
Yeah, I feel very close. And that shifts sometimes. You know,
There's been moments over the last three years where I've
been like I'm right here, I'm right here, it's right here, yeah,
and it's like, oh not, not not even close. And
but I do feel like those have all kind of
been a weird way gotten me closer and closer absolutely
certain things, and you know, you can kind of see

(31:43):
my board back here. I've got all kinds of stuff
up there with people's names and ruling things out and
oh maybe we reintroduced this and what about this?

Speaker 5 (31:50):
So you know, I do feel very close.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
I feel like I've really honed it down to a
couple of people, a few motives left, and now it's
really like finding these people, which is sort of the
easiest part of all of this. You know, three years ago,
I didn't know these people's names, so now it's just like, oh,
I just have to find them. Well, I have no
other name, like easy, easy enough, I'll find them, right,

(32:13):
and maybe that will will shift something. And talking to
people who it's been so long now a lot of
these people are implicated for other things.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
And I'm like, damn, is everybody in jail.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Everybody's in jail, but like one person and I'm thinking,
you know, maybe there's a world where they could cut
a deal or do something for information.

Speaker 5 (32:33):
So yeah, I mean, we'll see.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
I mean, I'm yeah, I'm talking to a lot of
people behind bars lately, so yeah, it's it's also, you know,
a world I was very shielded from very unfamiliar with,
and now I'm like, you know, boom boom boom rights
and all kinds of crazy stuff.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
It's it's really interesting.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Was there ever a time where you want to just
give up and be like just fuck this shit, like
I just can't no more?

Speaker 5 (33:00):
Yeah, yesterday, no, but well kind of it.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
But yeah, I mean I definitely have these moments where
it's like, what is the point of all of this?
Like am I still in it for like a pride
a pride issue where it's like I've started this, everyone
knows I'm doing this. If I stop now, they're gonna
think I'm a quitter, And like should I just hang
it up? Because like I'm just not getting any closer,

(33:26):
and I'm spending money I don't have, and I just
can't do this anymore. Like my landlord is very upset
with me because I'm you know, not paying my rent.

Speaker 5 (33:34):
And like there's just so much going on that it's.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Like and you probably feel lonely too.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
Oh my, it's the most isolating feeling ever to be
Like I, you know, am running on this hamster wheel
trying to solve the case that I can't really solve.
I'm spending money now that I do not have. My
priorities are this and I have no other work. I
have no other job. I'm just doing this right now,

(34:01):
trying to survive, you know, from a financial perspective really
of like rent and bills, and but then also like
a mental perspective of like this is just taking such
a toll on me that like if my friend was like, hey,
my job makes me feel exhausted every day and I'm
emotionally drained and I feel like, you know, if I

(34:22):
just listed out the feelings I had without talking about
what I was doing, and my friend came to me
and said this is how my job makes me feel,
I'd be like, oh, quit And so it's like why
am I not quitting? And so yeah, I do think
about it a lot. It was a big conversation I
had with myself before I put out Part three, which

(34:43):
is coming out right now, was like do I even bother?

Speaker 5 (34:46):
Like do I just stop in August?

Speaker 4 (34:48):
I like really had to have an honest conversation with
myself about should I just end it now? And is
this it is this as close as I'm going to get?
Do I investigate it? Just on the side on my
own for not a podcast and just not make it
public and just do it on my own because it's
just a lot of work time, energy, money, emotional capacity.

(35:12):
You know, I'm twenty nine, I'm trying to build a life.
I just got into a new relationship. My last relationship
is kind of ruined by this podcast. So it's like, Wow,
what do I do? How do I navigate this? Have
I learned any lessons? I want to quit all the time, Yeah,
but I don't.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
And because it's bigger than you.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Yeah, and now it's a little bit bigger than my dad.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
I mean, there's absolutely there's.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
This in equity happening in counties like Belmont County, Ohio.
There are others, but I'm just really embedded in Belmont County,
but where people should know what's going on. I kind
of equate it to like, thirty years ago, journalism was
this really powerful tool where if you lived in a

(36:04):
county where your water supply was filled with chemicals, a
journalist may have gotten the anonymous tip from someone who
worked the water company, and they investigate it and they
write this incredible investigative piece about it, and then the
entire town is like, oh my god, we should stop
drinking the water, and that was journalism. Hey, your politicians

(36:25):
are corrupt. Hey did you know that this was going
on in your school system? You know, we're putting this
stuff in your water? And it was like this really
powerful tool. And journalists were public servants. They were there
for the public to share information. And you know, I
think that's still happening to a degree, but it's really

(36:46):
gotten spun around. And there's different types of journalism, and
there's different types of reporters, and you know, there's everyone's
got a podcast.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Everybody got a Mitcha.

Speaker 5 (36:55):
There's all this stuff. And I feel like my show.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
Has taken a lot of different turns and is still
very much focused on my dad's case. But something I've
really tried to do is like bring back this sense
of like what does this show mean for like the
people of Belmont County? And to me, it's Hey, did
you know your police department is super corrupt? Did you
know that the sheriff you elected is doing these things?

(37:21):
Did you know that the prosecutor that you vote for
is choosing not to prosecute anyone in my dad's case?
And guess what, my dad was shot and killed in
his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer, Yes, he
was a confidential informant. But he wasn't shot on a
street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a
drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. He
could have been you. He could have been your dad,

(37:43):
your sister, your brother, your cousin. He could have been
anyone that you know if you live in Belmont County
and your police department would have done nothing about it.

Speaker 5 (37:52):
And isn't that a problem.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Because now you've got to kill a walk into streets.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
Yeah, and now the show has sort of taken this
turn of hey, Belmont County, pay attention to what's going
on because you are in control of who is in power,
and you should know that this is what's happening. And
so it's sort of taken on this like extra layer

(38:18):
of public affairs, public servantry where I'm like, you need
to know what's going on in your town. And you know,
I'm backing all of that up with facts and figures
and former cases that they've had on their tables and
all of these things. But yeah, it's it's really become

(38:38):
this extra thing that it does feel bigger than me
and also now bigger than my dad.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, I know you pissing a lot of people off.

Speaker 5 (38:46):
Oh yeah, because.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
You was dropping nays, you was dropping situations. I'm like, Yo,
how many thrests have this girl received?

Speaker 4 (38:55):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (38:55):
So many. I get death threats all the time.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
I am not to smiling about.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
I'm writing an awp ed for an outlet I probably
can't say right now.

Speaker 5 (39:07):
But they keep fact checking. And I just got a
text it.

Speaker 4 (39:10):
So funny from my friend who's been helping me with
like copy editing, and she was like, Hey, I need
screenshots of your family threatening you for the fact checker.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, I have a folder on
my phone. Don't worry, I'll just pull them up and
send them over to you.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (39:25):
Yeah, it's I get them all the time.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
I to me they're empty threats because I'm like, y'all are.

Speaker 5 (39:35):
Broke people in Ohio. I live in LA Like, how
are you even gonna get to me to kill me?

Speaker 3 (39:41):
Your family broke?

Speaker 5 (39:42):
Check Like, you can't.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
You can't afford to pay someone to kill me, and
you definitely can't afford to come here and find me
and kill me.

Speaker 5 (39:48):
So I'm like, I'll just let it be.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
But but it does get a little spooky because they're like,
oh shit, like that's kind of scary, but right, I'm
like yeah, no, like my like twenty one year old
little cousin who's mad that I said his dad's name
in a podcast. He's not flying out here to find me,
but maybe he will. I don't know who knows.

Speaker 5 (40:08):
Medic you crazy.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
I'm also like like, okay, oh no, you killed me
and I don't have to pay rent?

Speaker 3 (40:17):
Oh no, like thank you?

Speaker 5 (40:20):
Yeah, oh no, it's so bad. I don't have to
pay Bank of America back. Oh that's the worst.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
So I'm like whatever, bye. If it's my time, it's
my time, you know, right.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
I can see why you want to work in comedy
because that's not funny, Like, oh I'm dead, No, I
ain't got to pay right, Yeah, but do you know
how to protect yourself? Like do you know how to
shoot and stuff?

Speaker 4 (40:42):
Oh? No, I've never held a gun in my life.
I My friends always like, I'm always like, oh yeah,
I don't believe in guns, and they're like, well, guns
are real, like guns, aren't Santa Claus, like you believe
that they exist?

Speaker 5 (40:53):
And I'm like, no, I don't believe in guns.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
I think you should at least learn how to shoot though,
just for you because of this, the magnitude of what
you're doing, and like, like this is a real case.
So I just always want you to make sure that
you're you're safe.

Speaker 5 (41:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
Yeah, I definitely should be doing a little bit more.
I did install like an extra lock on my door
in my apartment.

Speaker 5 (41:13):
I need to call my see if I can.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
I get a camera house.

Speaker 5 (41:17):
Yeah yeah, stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
But so you don't care.

Speaker 6 (41:22):
Yeah yeah, I'm like, yeah, will I like right, but yeah,
I know I need to. But it's like again, it's
one of those things where my to do list is
so long, and like every day it's like I have
to add five things to it and I only get
three things done. So then I carry those things over
and then I rolls over. It just gets longer and

(41:42):
longer and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
I mean, as important as it as it is, for sure,
It's like, all right, well I'll get to that in
like a year and a half when I have time.

Speaker 5 (41:52):
I'm like, yeah, that's like what am I supposed to do?

Speaker 4 (41:54):
And I do everything by myself, with the exception of
like a couple of friends helping me with some things
because I don't have money to pay them.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
And I really don't like having people like work for free.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
So like my one friend is helping me and we're
kind of building this together and that's really nice. But yeah,
other than that, it's like I can't afford to have
people kind of help with the to do list, so
it's like it's all on me and I just got
to do it and and then episodes are late, and that's.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
Have you thought about doing a gofund me?

Speaker 6 (42:21):
I can't.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
I did one last year.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
I'm really weird about asking for money me, So I'm weird.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
About gofunding accounts overall. But I think in your case,
people will support you.

Speaker 4 (42:34):
Yeah, I'm really weird about it's still up and I
never took it down. But it's also like such a
weird time. I mean, I live in LA and at
the time that I did it, which was like a
year ago, a little over a year ago, you know,
all my friends were still recovering from the strike, people
like figuring out work stuff.

Speaker 5 (42:52):
You know.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
Now you know, LA was on fire five months ago,
and our economy is tanking before our eyes, and it's
like everyone is struggling, and I'm really sense that, but.

Speaker 5 (43:04):
It's still up. It's there. I don't even know if anyone.
I don't think anyone's like done anything with it recently.
But you know, with me, we'll.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Begin off so I can share with my people.

Speaker 5 (43:13):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yeah, to support you.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
Yeah, we got like four grand which was super helpful.
It was like exactly what I needed to keep the
show going through part two, which was awesome. And you know,
it's still up, but yeah, it's been really interesting.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
Yeah, but that to do list just.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
Grows and grows and grows, and it's like, you know,
with with life stuff and personal stuff and also podcast
stuff and and work and trying to find work and
all that kind of stuff, it just it gets to
be a lot when you're tired and you're emotionally drained.
You know, I've got days where it's like I just
want to lay on my couch and watch Real Housewives
of Beverly Hills.

Speaker 5 (43:51):
For like right, like I don't want to you know.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
It's one of those things where like you get you
so much to do you don't know where to begin,
so you're like this is anything and runny thing at all,
And then the next day I'm like, like, how did
I get so backed.

Speaker 5 (44:05):
Up, Yeah, like wait, how do we get here?

Speaker 4 (44:07):
And then it like cuts to me like black and white,
just like scrolling through Netflix, and it's like, oh, that's
how we got here, right right right?

Speaker 5 (44:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (44:20):
You know.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
One of the things that you spoke about that I
feel like a lot of black women go through is
impostera syndrome. So has how has imposta syndrome ever made
you question? What are you doing too much? Or doesn't
make you feel like you're not doing enough?

Speaker 5 (44:33):
Both?

Speaker 4 (44:35):
I feel like in the beginning, I guess it's always
always it's been both. It's been this weird sense of
I'm doing too much, I'm too loud, I'm making too
big of a splash. You know. In the beginning, I
was making bags that said did you kill my dad?
On them? I'm like giving them away and like really
trying to like have a big you know, push and

(44:59):
get to go Wait what's this about? And it made
me really feel like, I think, a feeling that a
lot of black women feel, which is like I'm taking
up too much space, Like I'm just taking up way
too much space here, and you know, all these people
are looking at me like where'd you come from?

Speaker 5 (45:17):
What are you doing here?

Speaker 4 (45:19):
And you're like, oh, no, am I am I being
too like loud? Am I making too much of a splash?
Should I try to like morph and fit in a
little bit better and kind of work my way up
through the proper channels instead of just coming in and
doing it my own way, right? And then sometimes I'm like, oh,
I'm doing it my own way and that's not enough

(45:41):
and I should have done it the way that all
these other people did it, because they know more than me,
and they're doing more than me, and they're on you know,
they're being interviewed by Dax Shepherd on Armchair Expert, and
they're number one on the podcast.

Speaker 5 (45:52):
Charts, and they know how to do all this stuff.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
And I'm just over here like, hey, I'm figuring it
out and I'm mixed my show and I'm editing it
alone a lot. I don't know what I'm doing. And
all these people have, like, you know, these crews and
these teams and their shows are you know, skyrocketing and
probably making a ton of money.

Speaker 5 (46:13):
And it makes you feel kind.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
Of like, oh, is the value of my show in
how much money I'm producing or how many downloads I'm getting?
And if that's the case, then my show sucks and
you can really spiral. Oh I know, yeah, And so
I go through that a lot. I mean on a
daily basis. I mean I'm looking all the time at like,
where's the podcast stand today?

Speaker 5 (46:35):
Oh, we're not on the charts at all. Awesome, that's great.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
I'll just go back to crazy.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
But don't let that get to you, because that's something
that I have to tell myself because I feel like
my show is fucking amazing. Like I feel like you're
not going to hear stories like this for women that
look like us, for us to speak just be ourselves.
And I feel like it was a point in time
where people were coming out and people are like, oh
my god, they're so amazing show. And I'm like, she's
talking about the same shit I'm talking about. My shit
is better. It's just like it's it's so frustrating, and

(47:01):
I don't think people understand why we need you to support,
why we need you to listen, why the reviews matter,
why you need to share, Like, if you can't support
me financially, there's other ways that you can support me,
so this show can grow.

Speaker 5 (47:12):
One hundred thousand percent. And most especially.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
I think that's another great thing about podcasting is most
of the ways to support podcasters are free.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
It costs no money, down, writing a review, sharing it, like,
all of those things are truly free. And they pay
dividends because advertisers see that and they want to invest
in shows, and advertisers see that and they want to
run more ads on shows, and then you get bigger
advertisers and and all of that stuff like adds up,
and that's all at the cost of the listener zero dollars.

Speaker 5 (47:45):
It's it's zero dollars.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
You just got to listen, give me a seconds.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Yeah, And so yeah, it's really it's the beauty of podcasting.
But it's also tough because then on the other side
of it, there's so much saturation and so.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
Many shows and so much stuff.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
And I read a stat that was like, if you
get like a thousand downloads an episode or something, you're
in the top one percent of all podcasts because there's
so many podcasts.

Speaker 5 (48:12):
Yeah, and that's just crazy.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
To me because it's how do you find your community
in a sea of all of these things? But I
think I want to believe that the good shows end
up kind of finding their way, even if.

Speaker 5 (48:28):
It takes a while. It takes a while, but you know,
sometimes I.

Speaker 4 (48:33):
Lose faith in that, but I but I really want
to believe that, like shows like yours, and like I've
got friends who have really incredible podcasts, and I'm like,
I want to believe that those shows eventually.

Speaker 5 (48:44):
Will have their moment and get their.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Day, but not those shows our shows, because your show
would get that moment too. But I also think it's
important that we support each other. So when I found
your show and I read about it, I was like, oh,
without a doubt, I reached out to you, like I'm like,
I have to have you in a show because this
is what people need to hear. I feel like I
can't even imagine that things you go through on a
daily basis and then just financially, like financially like it's

(49:07):
really lonely.

Speaker 5 (49:09):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's so isolating.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
And I've got friends who they're not doing great, you know,
by any mean, I don't know anyone who's like, you know,
rolling in money right now, but right they're doing well
to the point where it's like, oh, let's take a
trip or let's go do something. And you're like let's
go to dinner tonight. And it's like very weird to
be almost thirty and be like, oh I can't. That's
really isolating because it's like you kind of work your
whole twenties and like kind of scrap it up and

(49:33):
like really like eat ramen and do all those things
to like so by the time you're in your late twenties,
you're like, Okay, I'm a little bit more like if
I want something, I can get it, or if I
want to do something, to do it. And to be
now sort of in a place where like I'm not
there is incredibly isolating because also like my friends don't

(49:54):
fully understand.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
Oh if they're not creative, forget about it.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
Yeah, yeah, they don't fully understand, and so it's tough,
and yeah, it's it's also just like, you know, I
think we're all hard on ourselves and we expect a
lot from ourselves. So it's very sad for me to
be like, oh, you know you, I wish I was
in a different place. And I think that goes back
to the frustration that you probably hear in the podcast,

(50:20):
which is like I don't want to be doing this.
I don't want to be talking to you on the
show because I wish that I didn't have my podcast,
Like I wish I didn't have to be doing this. Yeah,
and I am, and I do have to do this,
and it's very frustrating because at the end of the day,
like I'd rather be doing something else. I'd rather be
like building a career and having a life and like

(50:42):
going to like do on trips with my friends and
eating dinners with cool people and meeting new people and
having these cool experiences and not sitting at home sad
and trying to regroup from a long day of investigating
my dad's murder. Like I wish that I wasn't doing this,
and if the police had done their job, then I
wouldn't be and my life would be in a completely

(51:02):
different spot right now, and i'd probably be, you know,
at a point where I'm like paying back my mom
and my grandma for the money that they've helped me
with all these years, which is like by the time
I turned thirty, something I hoped I could do. Yeah,
and yeah, it's just really sad that the reality is,
like the police didn't do their job, and now I'm

(51:22):
doing this, and now I'm sort of in this position
because of their incompetencies, and it's it's incredibly frustrating.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Yeah, now what made you start the investigation on your own?
Like did something happen or did you was having a
conversation with the police officer and you was just like,
something's not adding up.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
Yeah, so I didn't have a ton of info when
I first started, I called, well, it was during the pandemic,
so I was very bored and I didn't have a
job because nobody had a job, and I was just
sitting at home and watching TV all day, like Tiger
King and love.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Tiger King was so good.

Speaker 5 (51:56):
Yeah, it was like crazy.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
And like watching like tiktoks of people like washing their
like fruit with like down dish soap or something.

Speaker 5 (52:04):
But I was super bored, and.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
I was watching like old true crime docs and listening
to old podcasts and you know, doing all that kind
of stuff that we were all sort.

Speaker 5 (52:17):
Of stuck at home doing.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
And it really dawned on me that a lot of
the shows I used to watch or used to listen
to back in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, in
twenty twenty were going through court or had a retrial
or something had happened. There was motion in the case
as a result of the things that I listened to

(52:39):
back five years ago, and so I was like, oh, interesting,
I wonder if I just like got ahold of my
dad's case files, like what I would find and maybe,
you know, five years later, which is now, there would
be some movement there. And so I called to get
the case files and that was really when it started.
And then yeah, I had that moment of like this,

(53:00):
and as I started reading the case files, it was like, oh,
this is weird and suspicious and like things aren't adding
up and why didn't they investigate this and why did
they never talk to this person?

Speaker 3 (53:12):
I guess common sense at this point.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
Yeah, yeah, And so yeah, that's that was kind of
the path.

Speaker 5 (53:19):
It was like a very loose like what if I
did something like this?

Speaker 4 (53:22):
And then it was like, oh, I have to do
something like this, because what the fuck is this case file?

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Right?

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Right? Do you ever feel guilty for the things you
uncover or how it affect the other people?

Speaker 4 (53:34):
Yeah, I I feel. I feel, I feel like a
weird I don't even know the word for it.

Speaker 5 (53:46):
Bad.

Speaker 4 (53:47):
No, I feel and responsible, No, I feel I don't
know the right word to use to be honest with you.
But there's this, there's this sense of I don't like
exposing my family necessarily. I don't like this like dragging
skeletons out of the closet type thing.

Speaker 5 (54:08):
But I feel similarly with that as I.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
Do the police, where it's like, well, if you guys
had done something a long time ago, then I wouldn't
need to be doing this.

Speaker 5 (54:19):
So it's sort.

Speaker 4 (54:20):
Of like you made your bed and now you have
to lie in it. It's not my fault that you
did the things you did. It's maybe my fault that
I'm talking about them. But if you had owned it
back in the day, or if you had done something
to further investigate my dad's murder and not brushed it
under the rug, then I probably wouldn't be talking about

(54:41):
how your drug dealing could potentially have been a cause
for my dad's murder. And if it wasn't, then we
would have been all moved on from this. And it's fine,
but you didn't choose to like investigate. I mean, I
was six when this happened. What was I supposed to
do about it?

Speaker 5 (54:55):
But if you all had.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
Done something about it, then I wouldn't have grown up
to then do what I'm doing now. So that's kind
of how I feel, where it's like I don't like
doing it. I wish I didn't have to do it,
but I have to investigate every possible avenue, and if
that includes your illegal activity as a possible motive for
why my dad got killed or why they were at

(55:16):
Omar's house or why something was going on, then that's
just the reality. And if you had done this when
I was six and when my dad was first murdered,
then maybe we wouldn't be here. So it's like I feel,
you know, empathy for them, but I don't feel bad
because it's there. They made those choices, they made those decisions,

(55:37):
and they just thought that they were going to get
away with it, so like that's not my problem.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Yeah, I feel like when it comes to the family members,
I feel like they are struggling to navigate the line
between loyalty and more accountability.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Like it's really hard for this, yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
One hundred percent, and you know it would be very easy.
A lot of this stuff I'm brushing up myself. This
isn't information that they've offered me, which also to me
is suspicious So if they had come to me and
been like, hey, listen, I was drug dealing and I
sometimes would run into Darryl Smith and we would exchange words,

(56:13):
but we weren't really that close, and I remember this
this about him, and he drove this kind of car,
and that's all I know.

Speaker 5 (56:19):
If I then found out, oh.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
They were drug dealing and they did see Daryl, sometimes
it'd be like, oh, they already told me all that.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
We're all good.

Speaker 4 (56:26):
I already knew that, and like, I don't think it
has anything to do with it. But when they don't
tell me that and then I find out.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
It looks suspicious.

Speaker 4 (56:34):
Oh well, that's a little weird that they I talked
to them for four hours and they never brought that
up once. Right, weird to me, And so that's when
I call it out. So it's not like I'm just
out here like here's everyone's laundry. It's like, oh, I
had to find out that Omar's brother was married to
Daryl's ex girlfriend for six months through the ex girlfriend

(56:56):
because you didn't ever tell me that. Okay, I'm gonna
bring that up.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Because that's weird.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
And so it's like me so stressed child I'm like,
come on, now, we'll be doing here.

Speaker 5 (57:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
I mean, well that man he needs a few more
screws and has had. But yeah, that it's stuff like
that where it's like I'm not intentionally just being like,
here's everyone's business, Like there's stuff I don't share, but
I share the stuff where it's like, oh, weird. I
talk to you, I interviewed you. You never brought that up.
You never said that to me. You never told me
you went to school with that person, You never told

(57:26):
me that you hung out with them before.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
Why that's weird.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Yeah, Now take us back to July eleventh, two thousand
and two, because I thought it was so fucking crazy
that your family lied to you and told you that
your father died from a heart attack. And it's so
many families from the interviews that I've done in the
past that had similar stories, and I'm like, why do
we keep lying to each other like this, Like like

(57:51):
we're not going to find out the truth.

Speaker 5 (57:53):
That's my white.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Side, my white mom and my white grandma.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
No, but it was.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
But yeah, I talk about this a lot because I
think it we really discredit kids' abilities to process information,
and I actually think the younger people learn things, the
better they process them.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
I agree.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
I think if you had very plainly, in like very
simple terms, gone to me at six almost seven, and said,
bad things happen.

Speaker 5 (58:29):
There are bad people in the world.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
Your dad was shot with a gun, which I'm sure
at that point I had seen before in a movie
or a cartoon or something, and he died, and he's
not with us anymore, and you won't ever get to
see him again because somebody pulled a trigger and he died.

Speaker 5 (58:46):
I would have been able.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
I would have been very upset and probably very like
what I don't understand rightfully. So that to me is
better than going, oh, my family lied to me for
six years. And not only did they lie to me,
you know, it's one thing to be like, hey, your
dad's not with us anymore in your six and you're
kind of like, huh, they made up a whole story.
They said it was a heart attack. I mean, there's
all this stuff, and it's like, you know, that to

(59:10):
me is like, now you've created a whole world for
me to like, you know, with.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
That's not real, that's that's so crazy.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
So it was very weird, and you know, I understand again,
there's this level of like empathy where it's like I
get it. I understand, like why you did what you
did and why you feel the way that you feel,
But I don't know if you were really thinking about
the grander scenario and like the real impact that this.

Speaker 5 (59:35):
Was going to have.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
And yeah, and I think, yeah, you didn't give me
enough credit to be able to process that information and
carry it and move forward with my life.

Speaker 5 (59:47):
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
And you know, when I was listening to the show,
I thought it was so crazy because your dad was
known for having a lot of guns throughout the house.
So the fact that he didn't pick not one gun
up let me know that he knew to person.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
Yes, so I agree, I think that. So in order
to get to my dad's front door, you have to
go up the steps. So it's kind of like one
of those like the first the first floor is like
at the top floor kind of steps, that's where the
front door is, and then the downstairs is like a
basement area, and so to go up these steps. Now,

(01:00:26):
if you go up the steps, the front door is
in the middle of the house. So on this side
you have like a bunch of bay windows it's the
living room and my sister's room past that and on
this side of my dad's room. So when you go
up those steps, you're passing my dad's side of the
house where my dad's window is, right. So I think

(01:00:47):
he heard voices that he recognized coming up the steps.
He gets out of bed because I'm sure they were
loud and whatever, and it's like six p forty in
the morning, So he gets out of bed to go
and be like what is going on out there? Like
why is so and so there.

Speaker 5 (01:01:05):
And what are they doing here?

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
At six forty in the morning, And he starts walking
to the door. And I think the reason he didn't
grab a gun is because he was like, what are
they what's going on outside?

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
Why are they here? And he knew them.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
If he didn't, if he heard voices he didn't recognize
my dad, a probably wouldn't have gotten out of bed, right,
he would have grabbed a.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Gun, especially he thought it was a threat.

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
For sure, because one of the last things he said
was my daughter's in here, talking about my sister, and
so I think, yeah, he went to the door thinking
that it was maybe not a friendly face, but a
familiar face, and at the very least before dying, thinking
that they were close enough that he could say, my

(01:01:53):
daughter's here and they wouldn't have done anything. Wow, But
that's just what I you know, assume, right, So we
don't't know what my dad was thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
That wraps up Part one, Okay, and baby I cannot
wait for you all to hear Part two as we
dive even deeper into the details of Madison's father's case.
So if you got questions, if you have comments, if
you want to talk about this episode, or if you
simply just want to say hey girl, hey, please make
sure to send me an email at Hello at the

(01:02:24):
pgpodcast dot com. Also, please make sure to follow me
on YouTube at the Professional Homegirl so you can watch
the video with Madison and I keep ken.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
And please follow me on pretty Private.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
On TikTok as well as Instagram. So until next time,
everyone later.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Pretty Private is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
A production of the Black Effect podcast Network. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows, don't forget to
subscribe and rate the show, and you can connect with
me on social media at Pretty Private Podcasts.

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Host

Eboné Almon

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}PRETTY OPEN: I'm Solving My Father's Murder Part 1 with Madison McGhee