Reflecting on the Magic: Shonda Rhimes and Betsy Beers Discuss Producing 'Queen Charlotte'

Welcome to the final episode of our reflections on "Queen Charlotte: A Bridgerton Story." This episode, we embark on a journey into the minds of Creator Shonda Rhimes and Executive Producer Betsy Beers to dig into their creative process.

Shonda a writer who we learn writes in her head, and Betsy, the self-described Shonda-whisperer, are the producing duo forged out of decades of partnership. They’ve captivated audiences around the world, breathing life into characters that are both peculiar and compulsive, royal and yet firmly planted on Earth.

Join us for this noteworthy conversation with Shonda Rhimes and Betsy Beers as they rediscover the magic that captivated them, making "Queen Charlotte" a story they simply needed to tell. 

 

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Episode Transcript

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Queen Charlotte. The Official podcast is a production of Shondaland
Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to
the Final episode of our Reflections on Queen Charlotte of

(02:21):
Bridgeton Story. I am your humble and honored host, and
we're gathered here today for a truly noteworthy conversation with
two distinguished guests. That's why you're here right today. We
have the immense privilege of sharing time with creator Shonda
Rhymes and executive producer Betsy Bears as we reflect on

(02:43):
this remarkable series. I'm filled with gratitude for the opportunity
to pick the brains of these two brilliant minds and
to delve deep into their process. And I gotta say
it was really fun to watch them rediscover in real
time the juice that got them hooked on telling this
story in the first place. Shonda and Betsy, acclaimed producers

(03:05):
storytellers in their own right, have captivated global audiences with
their unparalleled ability to breathe life into characters that are bizarre, royal,
untouchable in that way, and yet firmly planted on earth.
All right, So here we are. We are finally taking
your questions to creator Shonda Rhymes and executive producer Betsy Beers.

(03:30):
So without further Ado, let's just get right into it
for me and I think for a lot of fans,
I am most fascinated by your working relationship and how
that has flourished over the years, changed, Morphed became what
it is. So I'm really curious about how the two
of you work together, and I know that this project

(03:50):
was special for a few reasons. Could you tell us
about that and then if you could really paint a
picture of what it looks like to be working together.

Speaker 7 (04:00):
It's a funny question because at this point we're so
used to working together by also not working together, if that.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Makes any sense, that totally makes sense.

Speaker 7 (04:08):
You know, we get together and we discuss projects. In
the writing process, I'm always talking to Betsy about what
I'm thinking or what I'm considering, or how it's going
to work. And at the same time, Betsy's sort of
working to make sure production is prepped the way it
needs to be prepped and understands the vision that I'm
trying to put out there. A job that gets easier
I think for all of us because of Tom, since

(04:28):
Tom's also part of our permanent little group now, which
is really nice. But you know, usually I'm writing and
either telling Betsy it's terrible or sending her pages and
telling or I think it's great, and her telling me
what she thinks, and then when there's a script, we
sort of hit the road, tyking about production and stuff.
And at this point I don't have to say to Betsy,
here's the vision that I have for a Queen Charlotte,

(04:49):
because Betsy already has that vision too. We've worked together
for so long that we just see things the same way, now,
don't you think, Betsy.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
I know I totally agree with that. And eight thing
is we're sounding boards for each other, and especially what
I like to feel like is we have conversations about
stuff or what's interesting about stuff, or we'll start with like,
I think this point is interesting, and her big brain
will like spew out some amazing sort of what ifs,
and then we can start with the what ifs and

(05:21):
push them in lots of different directions. And one of
the things I love to do, and I've done my
whole life in this job, is I'll drive in four
billion directions just for the hell of it. And then
it's a little bit like a buffet. You can you
can kind of pitch with every directly. But I don't
really have to do that with Seanda anymore because we've
been doing it for so long. She always hits the

(05:43):
ground running, and with this project especially, I knew what
it was. She knew exactly what it was, and the
first conversation we had she said, this is what I
feel this is, and that's what it was. Yeah, I
mean I think it went through less quote unquote development.
I'm making those little annoying quote sounds with my fingers
so anybody knows what I'm doing. But there was no

(06:05):
real development of this. This was, I would say, like
the unfurling of your brain.

Speaker 7 (06:12):
And it had been like it had been sitting in
there for a while or something.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yes, it happened, But I have to say you also,
you very often percolate without percolating.

Speaker 7 (06:20):
Yes, that's very true.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Wait what do you mean. Well, it's like I say,
it's like coffee. It's like in the back of her
head something. The grounds are in there, you put the
water in, and it's just sort of percolating back there.

Speaker 7 (06:31):
Like ideas just are sort of building, right.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
They're just sort of building. And sometimes we'll talk about
a bunch of different things just randomly, because she's my
favorite person to call and go like, did you just
read this thing, it really annoyed me? Or do you
know what's amazing about life? And then somehow or another,
she's already formed some sort of story in her head
that speaks to all the questions I had. True, it's

(06:57):
kind of like magic, except really hard work.

Speaker 7 (07:01):
The hard thing about is working together for so long
is that we can no longer explain how we work together.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
It's true, that was the biggest load of garbage that
just come out of my mouth.

Speaker 7 (07:10):
But it's so hard to talk about because it's so
it's literally the way we've been living life for twenty
years now, so it's very hard to describe to somebody
what breathing feels like.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
It's true. And my favorite moment sometimes is there have
been points. Do you remember if there was one point
long time ago where we were in a meeting and
it was a it was an incredibly tortured, not particularly
productive meeting in which there was an executive spewing things. Yes, that,
and there was a moment she looked at me and
she said, can you translate?

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Right?

Speaker 7 (07:40):
I looked at it. I was like, what are they saying?
They're not talking creatively?

Speaker 2 (07:43):
It said alot of blat of blue quietly, and she
was like, Okay, this makes absolutely no sense. But so
there's a certain amount of translation, but even more so
at this point, we'll just like each other and go
She'll go, do you know the thing that happened at
the time when we did that thing? And I'll go, yeah,
I don't, Yeah, I totally do.

Speaker 7 (07:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Any long term relationship that you're really close, where you've
been through a lot of experiences, I think probably you'd
talk to anybody who'd say, yeah, I'm one of the
things I value most is the closest not to have
to talk.

Speaker 6 (08:13):
Yes, yeah, Yeah, it's funny. I was just saying to
my dad. Sometimes you just can be in a room
with someone and not say anything exactly and not necessarily
like the Violet and Danbury moment. But you know, so
you mentioned what ifs. I'm wondering if there were any
particular what ifs that blew your mind, Betsy for this

(08:38):
particular project. Was there a what if early on that
that sent you in forty eight billion directions?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
I think with this project specifically, there are fewer what
ifs that I was coming up with, because with this
project so much was already in her head, you know,
I think sometimes we'll be dealing just sort of with
a world and well place more of a what iflick,
what if you actually dug into this particular character. We
talked about this thing which is bothering. I always start,

(09:05):
and I think Shawna does too, with what am I
feeling or how am I thinking? Or what's in my brain?
But I don't think there was as much of that
with this because it was something that emerged, I think
fully grown from her brain.

Speaker 7 (09:17):
There was something about watching Golda play Queen Charlotte that
made me begin to imagine a world in which that
character started out and began her journey.

Speaker 6 (09:27):
One of the questions that we received was if Shanda
you actually when you are percolating, are you journaling and
writing or do you have post it notes everywhere? Or
do you just talk out loud? What does that look
like for you?

Speaker 7 (09:42):
Yeah, none of the above. I'm not journaling or writing,
or putting post it notes or talking out loud generally.
When Betsy means like something's percolating in the back of
my brain, for real, I'll be going about my whole
daily life doing something completely different. Sometimes I'm even writing
another project or working in another project. But the story
idea for something is in the back of my brain
and then one day I wake up and I'm like, oh, okay,

(10:03):
I'm ready to write it down now. And when I
write it down, it's pretty much fully formed. Like I'm
not a person who turned through drafts and like is
pained in that way.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
It's pained.

Speaker 7 (10:15):
Yeah, no, but you know, like writing is. It can
be a painful process, but I'm not. I don't have
that process. I either know what I'm writing or I don't,
and if I don't, then I'm not writing it yet.
It's still purklating.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
That's exactly right. It's it's nothing you see. It's just
back there. And you know, when the bread's baked, it
comes out of the oven, so it's but it's I
think I'm going to use a lot of cooking metaphors,
but I do. I think it's it's funny because we
always sort of say, like when something going to be ready.
It's like, well, it's not ready till it's ready, and

(10:47):
when it's ready, it'll come out and it will be
what you see on film. And to be honest, that
was true with The Gray's Anatomy, and that's true with this.

Speaker 7 (10:55):
A lot of writers, I think, write and then they
put a draft out and then you have to get notes,
and there's a lot of feedback and a lot of
changes and a lot of molding, And I think I
do all that in my head, and then whatever we
end up turning out as a page is usually what
we end up shooting.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, I mean ninety nine point nine percent of the time.

Speaker 6 (11:13):
Yeah, that makes me think about some of the things
that are that become what ifsen what happened for the audience,
Like my first time through watching, I kept hinging myself
onto this idea of the great experiment, and I felt
like there was enough room for the audience for myself

(11:35):
to just wonder exactly what you all were getting at
with some of the ideas and concepts that emerged in
Queen Charlotte. And I'm wondering if you actually birth it
that way where it may not seem like a complete
or like there is more to be unpacked, but you
don't even know yet what that is is. No, doesn't work, No,

(11:58):
So you know, like every like the she knows you
you know, I don't know.

Speaker 7 (12:04):
How to explain it, but you just know, and then
you write it down I wish, I wish that there
was a way to bottle it, because then I could
do it much easier. But you do, you know, and
then you write it down, So some of these things,
you know. The Great Experiment was something that I started
talking about from the beginning in terms of how we
were going to build this world and tell the story.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
And I think also it was connected to something that
was you know in the Bridgerton universe, was something that
you felt incredibly strongly about, Shonda, and really wanted wanted
to create your own articulation of that.

Speaker 7 (12:33):
Right because it's given one line. It's given like one
line or two lines in the Bridgerton story. You know,
their love united nation, and that's great, But I was like,
I need there to be a world that works with
this inside the Bridge reverse for this to work.

Speaker 6 (12:47):
One of the really nice things I heard from the
cast was being dropped into this world where everybody works differently,
and so there's so much to glean and there's so
much to share. It sounds like a really great thing.
But there's something that you just said too that makes
me think of one of these questions. If you know

(13:07):
everything going into putting out this work, you then know
the answer to what happened to Reynolds.

Speaker 7 (13:15):
Of course I didn't.

Speaker 6 (13:17):
Everybody wants to know I know what happened to Reynolds.

Speaker 7 (13:21):
And I'm not ready to tell anybody what that answer is.

Speaker 8 (13:24):
Perhaps this is good, perhaps perhaps.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
It is bad.

Speaker 7 (13:33):
I told a complete story. I left you with some questions.
I think those questions are vital and important. But I'm
not telling the answers yet.

Speaker 6 (13:40):
We won't know what happened to Reynolds.

Speaker 7 (13:42):
We no, no, And you know. For me, I feel like,
if you watched it correctly, you do know what happened.
It's very interesting. Like to me, it's very obvious what happened.
There's such a powerful moment where you understand Brimsley explains
it all. I'm fascinated by people thinking that he died,
which is not true, or that there's something like Brimsley

(14:05):
explains what happened.

Speaker 6 (14:06):
And if you watched it correctly, that's okay.

Speaker 7 (14:11):
That's not that's not a fair sentence. Okay, you watched
it correctly. It is not a fair sentence.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Was that was a tiny bit judgy?

Speaker 7 (14:18):
Yeah, it's judge. So it's true. There's no incorrect way
to watch You're so right, there's no incorrect way to watch,
you know, what it is in my mind, Like I was,
I'm on a very straight path. So to me, A
plus B makes C plusy and so I'm always amazed
when people truly like and I kind of love it.
It's part of the creative process. Take like they say,
A plus B equals Q and they see a completely

(14:39):
different world around, which sometimes is fascinating to me. And
I'm able to take it in creatively and build on it.
And sometimes I'm like, that doesn't make any sense to
what I was thinking at all. So that's the beauty
of it. I also have this thing where I truly
believe that what I write and what I intend and
the way it's received can be two different things. And
that's okay.

Speaker 6 (14:57):
I was just going to ask you both if that
is okay.

Speaker 7 (15:01):
Oh yeah, Patsy.

Speaker 6 (15:02):
The last time I've spoke with you, you said, you know,
you put the thing out. You put it out, It's out,
And that is a skill in itself to be as
a producer, to just let it go, let it breathe
on its own.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Oh, it doesn't belong to you anymore. That's the thing is,
it's it's you cleave it to your bosom, you know,
for four billion years, and then you you craft it
and love it to the best that you can, and
then you put it out into the world, and then
you're onto something else too that you want to That's

(15:34):
another story you want to tell.

Speaker 7 (15:35):
My oldest sister called me up and yelled at me
for about twenty minutes about the fact that I didn't
explain what happened to Reynolds, so seriously. Yeah, and she
was so angry. She wants to know and I wasn't
telling her, and she's not pleased with me right now.
But that's okay.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Hey, that's the breaks.

Speaker 6 (15:53):
Yeah, we'll be right back with more insights about Queen Charlotte.
A bridgeton story from executive producer but Sup Beers and
creator Shonda Rhymes.

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Speaker 2 (19:12):
Hi, it's Betsy Beers. You're listening to Queen Charlotte, A
Bridgerton Story, the official podcast Let's go into the steep dive.

Speaker 6 (19:21):
So I love to know when I'm wrong about things.
Cyrus is my all time favorite character, but one of
my absolute favorites is Eli Pope from Scandal and Too.
I tried to connect the dots to him across the
body of work of Shondaland all the time I felt
like there was a little of Eli talking to live

(19:44):
when I heard Lord Danburry talking to Agatha and maybe
it was a stretch, but I was wondering, Shonda, where
that voice comes from.

Speaker 7 (19:55):
So here's what's fascinating to me. Eli speaks from the
pain of the existence of being a powerful man who
is invisible to me. The person who actually holds his
voice the most is Lady Danberry is Agatha. Agatha speaks
of the pain of being a powerful, invisible person who
is not seen. And herman, her husband, who is a

(20:18):
very sweet, complex, difficult man who she has great affection
and sympathy for no matter what, is in a lot
of ways, her damsel in distress that she is rescuing.
I mean, you have to really see it that way.
Papa Pope and Agatha Danberry, they stand in the same
place in power. Poor Hermann has had a chance.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
I see that now.

Speaker 6 (20:39):
I see that, and I hear that now I think
I was taking it at face value.

Speaker 7 (20:45):
Maybe there's almost nothing that Hermann says. You have to
remember that she's the puppet master of everything good that
happens to him, Oh my goodness, and she very quietly
allows him to pretend that he has more power than
he does because she understands how painful his life has been.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Cyril spoke about that too.

Speaker 6 (21:03):
He said that he poured the parts of himself that
understood being marginalized and still needing to be tender to
those around him and not having the time or space
to do that. And I guess maybe That's what I
was connecting, Like, that's interesting. When Eli was calling Olivia concubine,

(21:29):
I was like, yes, that is the thing.

Speaker 7 (21:32):
He was calling it as he saw her behavior, which
is different than treating her a certain way. Do you
see the difference, Like he's expecting her to be an empowered,
three dimensional woman. Okay, herman's not expecting that. Herman believes
that Agatha is nothing more than a quiet little wife.
I mean, there was a lot of talk about like

(21:54):
the sex scenes, for instance, and I was like, she's
People were like, it's assault, and I was like, it's
not assault. It's a man who'se a never considered the
idea that a woman could ever enjoy herself sexually, because
that's not a definition of sex for a man. But
b it's never incurred to Agatha either, because this is
the only man she's ever known. She's bored out of
her mind, So you know those scenes where she seems

(22:15):
to be like making lists and thinking while they're in
bed together, She's bored out of her mind. She finds
it boring. And I kind of felt like if every
woman who really was bored and sort of over having
sex with her husband called it assault, we'd be in
a whole different world right now, Like that's what that is.
She's in a long term, sort of very boring, dead
marriage where she's never been awakened to anything. Her garden

(22:38):
has never bloomed as we've.

Speaker 6 (22:39):
Said, like hello, hello, garden.

Speaker 7 (22:41):
But she feels a great deal of affection for him
because she sees how badly he is treated by the
world and how invisible he is. So he thinks he
has power, but.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
He does not, and she sees how hard he takes
it because it feels to me like he's a man
constantly who's being disappointed. Yes, spends so much time trying
to mitigate that disappointment. And that's a huge part of
what she does. And that's the thing that I think
is so amazing about that relationship is.

Speaker 7 (23:13):
She takes care of him as best she can.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
And she also understands, as she gets more into the
politics of this show, the deprivation that has existed for him.

Speaker 7 (23:26):
There will be no ball trust and angle Joy in
front of me. Never let me grasp it.

Speaker 9 (23:43):
You are every bit as good as they are.

Speaker 7 (23:56):
You have to understand that all the women are women
who use society's belief about who they should be and
the positions they should occupy. They use those positions and
those beliefs against the people to their own advantage. They're
demanding of the dowager princess, like who is George's new doctor?
And she says, I do not remember names. I'm female,

(24:17):
and they I'll go of course, which is she says
it because that's what they believe, and if they're stupid
enough to believe it, she's going to work it to
her advantage. To me, these are the women using the
tools they have around them to their best advantages.

Speaker 6 (24:29):
Princess Augusta is one of my favorite characters for that reason,
and me too, Oh my goodness, Betsy. And I think
I would say top three scenes for me is the
pair brandy scene. I think anyone who I've spoken with
knows that is one of my favorite scenes. And I

(24:49):
don't remember if I asked you, Betsy, but I'm gonna
ask you now. Did you ever have a pair brandy
moment with anyone early in your career?

Speaker 7 (24:59):
Over so later?

Speaker 5 (25:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (25:01):
Did someone for you the fair brand?

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Betsy? I'm not sure that there was that much bytuperation,
but in terms of being in a situation where I
needed to be a more worthy adversary. Yeah. I mean
I would say that there have been moments definitely with
the people that I would call probably the politicians of
our job, but usually it was you take the gloves

(25:23):
off and you sit there for a second, then you
put the gloves back one as opposed to I don't
tend to have total meltdowns under those situations. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (25:36):
Very different from Lady Danberry.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Because and she had no one else to go to.
I don't think I've ever had that sense of total
full isolation that that character has, which is one of
the things I love about that scene. The other thing
I love about that scene is how quickly Agatha is
able to pull herself back together again. But the combination
of I don't want to lose my adversary from Augusta,

(25:58):
but also that is the way that she can show
her feelings towards her, and she can't show her feelings
towards her by saying, you know what, I'm so glad
you're in this world because you go get them girlfriend.
She has to say that's not the same veneration. But
she has gigantic commence of admiration for her, and I
would say Unfortunately, in a lot of these situations I've

(26:20):
been in, I have not had it as much admiration
as I've had and it doesn't happen a lot. But
to your point, I think occasionally a situation pops up
where it's politics and you handle it. This is more
long waited way of saying not exactly like this, No,
but I know what it's like to sit across the
table and bargain with a smile and a drink.

Speaker 7 (26:41):
Ha ha.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (26:44):
I of course have glamorized that in my mind, and
I wonder the same for you, Shonda, who poured prayer
brandy for you early in your career, if you had
a moment got that.

Speaker 7 (26:57):
I don't know that I've ever had a moment like that,
but I think I not in And I want to
say this correctly because you know I love her. I
was raised by a Princess Augusta in the best possible way,
meaning that I feel like I was raised at the
feet of somebody who would pour somebody the prayer brandy
and say get it together. So having been raised by
a woman like that who had those expectations, you know

(27:19):
I have great admiration for Princess Augusta and what she's
trying to accomplish here for herself, and what she's accomplished
given the world that she's you know, stuck in. And
that's one of my favorite scenes that I've written. And
what made it so great was to get to write
something like that and then to get the footage back
and see the astonishingly amazing performances those actors gave. It's
really exciting when that happens when you write something. I mean,

(27:42):
because I'm not on set, I write something, I send
it off Tom's there, and to have it come back
and be more than what you dreamed is so fantastic.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I think. Actually, that's why that's such a hard question
to answer, is because there's so many layers to that scene. Yeah,
because I can say, have I ever sat across the
table from theoretically Ansari? Have I ever set across the
table from somebody where I showed my vulnerability and they
said keep it? Every single thing is in that scene.
I mean, that scene has every single stage of a relationship,

(28:12):
a friendship, an adversarial relationship. It's like so it's almost like,
have I ever Yeah, I've had all of those moments.
What's incredible to me, is not one scene.

Speaker 7 (28:22):
No, right, it's never in one scene.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
What someone like that.

Speaker 7 (28:25):
I mean, it's really cool to have this this scene
between the two of them, because you're right. I love that,
Betsy said. It shows her affection for Agatha and her respect,
and honestly, for me, what was important was the concept
that they were in that moment. She was making absolutely
clear that this is the only equals she's got right now.
You know, She's like, don't you fall down on the job,

(28:46):
because if you do, then I'm alone.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Exactly.

Speaker 7 (28:48):
If you're still standing, then I'm still standing. If you're down,
then I have nothing. And I thought that was really
powerful and important.

Speaker 6 (28:57):
So I'm going to jump to a quick question from
fans audience about parenting. Charif at Sharif Underscores Scott Underscore
on Instagram asks and that's my baby. Does Lady Danberry
love her children?

Speaker 7 (29:14):
Yes, Lady Danberry absolutely loves her children. I think Lady
Danberry loves her children the way women of that era
often love their children, which is somebody else raises your children.
Their children are absolutely being raised by somebody else until
they're useful or interesting. I mean that is flat out,
literally just how it was done. So if we're living
in that world. I mean, it's funny because the actress,

(29:36):
you know, Arsma, came to me a lot and said
like she a good mother, and I was like, she's
a fantastic mother. She's hired the best nanny governess she
can find, and she's they're fed and clean and no
one beats them, and she treats them, you know, make
sure they have fresh air and sunshine. But the reality
of it is is even when you read all those
books about regency period and Georgian period, the concept of

(29:57):
motherhood as we know it is a very modern concept.
It's a very modern concept, this idea. If you're walking
around carrying a baby on your hip, you are a
servant in that period in time period. I'm a servant
right now, we are. I know, we're all sor.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
I was just about to say that you took the
words adam children. I think part of the issue here
is because people are so immersed in the world of
Violet Bridgerton. Yes, there's this weird sort of expectation that
socially that was the norm and the whole point of
Violet Bridgerton.

Speaker 7 (30:27):
The whole point of Bridgerton's is their family is slowly abnormal.
The kids sit at dinner, they talk to the children.
She likes her family, they hang out.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
She wants them to get married for love, right.

Speaker 7 (30:36):
I mean that that is the opposite of how any
child was raised back then. Violet is a very different
kind of mother because she was happy, but also because
she had her husband let her do what she wanted.
There's no way you could be but like a lady
in waiting to the queen, and what are you running
around playing paddycake with your children? It just wasn't done,

(30:57):
you know. It's why one of the reasons I made
very clear that when Queen Charlotte had her child, we
see the baby, we know that she spent time with
the baby, but that's it. Like there's no babies running around,
and when you see these surly adults, you're like, how
did they get that way? That to me was very interesting.

Speaker 6 (31:14):
Yeah, oh and I guess that. Yeah, that scene we
see a quick, quick, maybe fifteen seconds of Violet with
her grand babies and that yeah.

Speaker 7 (31:26):
See Violet, Yeah, Violet is a very different kind of mother. Yeah,
Violet is on the floor playing with her grandbabies. That
brings her joy. I don't think you'd ever see Agatha
Danburg on the floor playing with her grandbabies, and not
because she doesn't love her children, but because culturally, for
all of them in that period of time, that is
not what you do. No, Lady Featherington wasn't around playing
with her grand babies like It's just Violet's mother wasn't

(31:48):
playing with her babies, Like, that's not how that works.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
That's so interesting.

Speaker 6 (31:54):
I asked Ker if he felt who played Lord Ledger,
if he felt like his character helped our audiences understand
the way Violet loves and the way Violet led her
family later on, and he he felt very much. So
would you say that was intentional?

Speaker 9 (32:16):
No?

Speaker 7 (32:16):
I purposely wrote him to be this man. I mean
he calls her brains and beauty like I wrote this
man because how do you turn out to be a
woman like Violet? How do you turn out to be
a woman like Violet who can recognize love and a
man like Edmund and have that life. Violet had to
have a spectacular father, especially considering that I needed her
to have a not so spectacular mother. I very much

(32:37):
wanted you to understand that she knew what that kind
of love was, and that's why she treats her children
the way she does.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
And I think she also picks up on the fact
that her mother and father are very, very, very different.
So focusing on, yes, this little bit of longing in
her father, I think also contributes to her desire to
find real love.

Speaker 7 (33:01):
That's a beautiful way to put it.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
She sees his loneliness, then I think she both gets
what is it like to be loved by a wonderful man,
but why it's so important to have a real partner
as opposed to somebody who you're making excuses for, which
is what I always sort of feel like with the
two of them, is he's always sort of going like, yeah,
that's your mom, and yet that's your mom.

Speaker 7 (33:25):
Yet I have so much compassion for Lady Ledger because
when I write, I have to have passion everybody, But
I have the compassion for Lady Ledger because if you
look at it, she's in a house with a team
of two. They are a team, and she is on
the outside, and everything that she believes they treat as
if she is wrong and bad, and really all she's
doing is standing in tradition. She's behaving in all the

(33:47):
traditional ways, and they treat her as if she is
a joke, and that has got to be difficult for her.

Speaker 6 (33:55):
I feel like that is so ripe for right now
in so many facets of life and politics, and that
is fascinating.

Speaker 7 (34:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (34:09):
And Katie Braben, who plays Lady Leger, was she just man?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Did she deliver?

Speaker 7 (34:15):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (34:15):
She's wonder Yeah.

Speaker 7 (34:18):
Violent. The Lady does not stretch her neck like a draw.
I want to see the Queen.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
The Queen has not yet made appearance.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
She behaves like a street urchin.

Speaker 6 (34:28):
She will humiliate us.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
She is perfect.

Speaker 6 (34:30):
She will bring us nothing but accolades.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
I told you she's not yet ready to be out
in society.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
She is more than ready.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Betsy.

Speaker 6 (34:39):
Can you talk a little about casting Katie for that
role and your affinity for that character and what that
character represents too.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
You know, I don't remember that being one of those
characters where we saw tapes and tapes and tapes and
taps and taps. I just remember that we all saw
her and she had this absolutely perfect combination of there's
a warmth there. Yeah, she's got real depth. She doesn't
feel she never felt when she read like she was
playing at archly or over emphasizing. She gave her humanity, right,

(35:12):
she gave a humanity and I could see her also.
I mean one of the things obviously that was important
is as we're casting these people who are younger and
younger versions, you want to believe the bloodline. So it's
Violet came out of that person and that face and
that so there was always a physicality to it, which
was key. So she had this incredible combination of being

(35:34):
looking like she could be Violet Bridgerton's mom and also
just being a lovely mannered, excellent actress.

Speaker 7 (35:44):
She had a three dimensionality to her. She was able
to make that that's it not hateful. I mean, you
know what I mean. You don't have to like her,
but I could see who she was when she was
eighteen and she got married, Like you can see who
she was and how she became who she is. Well,
she's certainly never been allowed to do that much thinking
like it's very stressful for her to be out thought
like that doesn't make up what's this girl doing? Yeah? Yeah,

(36:06):
I love the moment in the end when they're at
the ball and Violet's like, there's lady, tell me hello,
Lady Danberry. And her mother's like she she'll ruin us,
and the father's like she won't. But you understand this
woman's fear because all she has, like all the other
mamas on the marriage mark, is the ability to get
her daughter married to have social success. And if this

(36:26):
child turns out that's what she did, right, If it's
childhood in all these untraditional ways that her father's supporting,
she cannot imagine they're being social success.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Oh my god, that's true. Right, you'll have Eloise on
your hand, yea.

Speaker 7 (36:38):
Right, She's like, this is a terrible idea. I'm gonna
have a spinster for a daughter. This is a nightmare,
oh Elise.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (36:45):
So why do you think both Charlotte and Lady Danburry
were cold towards their children in later life? Would you
even say they were cold? Now?

Speaker 7 (36:57):
I don't. I don't say they were cold. For me,
if we're going to talk about motherhood, let's talk for
a minute about Queen Charlotte, because for me, those moments
when her children are like, you know, you are terrible,
and she just can't even make herself explain why she
was a good mother because her job, her whole job
is to make sure that this line continues. Like that

(37:19):
is her job. And she's had all these children, and
she's raised them all, and she's put them all in
the perfect positions, and she's even indulged them for years
obviously because they're all dating whoors and actresses. She's even
indulged them all and all she needs from there's one thing.
And she's tried to let them be their own people,
but they failed miserably. And so to have them tell
her that she's a horrible mother, I felt was such

(37:42):
a hurtful moment for her, But it's also not untrue
because you have that moment when Brimsley says to her,
we've all only ever served one person, like she's solely
served the king and the kingdom and what's necessary for that,
which means you can't necessarily be a mommy when you're
doing all those things. So to her, she's been an
excellent mother. She's had fifteen babies, she's lost two, she's

(38:03):
allowed them to live their lives, she's given them everything
they've ever desired. All she's asking is one stupid thing.
And to them, you know, they're busy yelling at her
for holding.

Speaker 6 (38:12):
Up a nation I felt the children and you can
tell me if I'm wrong, Betsy too, if that, they
were like, but but mama queen, you're centering yourselves.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
In our life.

Speaker 6 (38:23):
And I felt like that was such a theme for
talking about adult child parent relationships as well, whether that's
a blood parent child relationship or if it's someone that
you work with who is like who you revere or
something like that.

Speaker 7 (38:41):
But wait, does she have an option other than to
center herself. I mean, she's not just herself, she's England,
she's the future of the royal crown. Like, what are
they whining about?

Speaker 2 (38:54):
I know exactly what you mean. But when you look
at what you do so brilliantly, is you always see
both sides the coin. What I loved about it is
it's not just the crown. You gave everything up to
that man, so it's not just to our father, who
they have no relationship with to to a large degree,
who they haven't seen. So really, it's a little bit

(39:15):
like talking about Lady Ledger and Lord Ledger and whose
side are you on? Because this whole show is about
the choices that you have to make that are heartbreaking
in your life and what you give up and what
you choose, and part of becoming an adult is by
making those choices standing by them. But what her kids
are saying to me and Brimsey's saying is Brimsley's different.

Speaker 7 (39:36):
Brimsley's also sacrificed.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
He's sacrificed, but in Brimsey's eyes, because Brimsley remembers what
came first. You did it for the world. But it's
that last scene under the bed. The whole world revolves
around him.

Speaker 7 (39:51):
That's amazing what you've just said, because basically you're saying
a thing that I thought about passing, but I don't
think I ever really articulated in my head at all,
which is this idea that she has a spectacularly magical
relationship with a man they'll never know.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
That's it.

Speaker 7 (40:09):
They've never known, and they probably will never know. Somebody
was a memory of their childhood, who probably was insane
for much of it, who for a long time has
lived apart from them. So to them, she's revered, spent
her life revering this figure that is the King that
they don't have a relationship with, you know, So they're orphans.
That ahead of them, So they're orphans. You're right, that's

(40:30):
been her most important relationship and to her, he needs
her more. Ooh, that I'm very clear on in her mind,
he needs her more. Yeah, And that was the deal.
That was the deal. She said, I will stand with
you between the heavens and the earth. I will tell
you who you are.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, half a George, half of like half. It will
behold together, will behold together. I mean that doesn't have
le room for a lot.

Speaker 9 (40:51):
No.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
And that's the thing, And that's why it's so relatable,
just in terms of life and choices, which is something
always gets lost in this sh something always gets sacrificed,
somebody is always disappointed.

Speaker 7 (41:04):
Yes, there are no bad mothers. There's just incredibly difficult choices.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Yes, well put And it's like the older you get
and the way I look at my mother and Seanda
knows every story in the world about her, and she
was a situation, but she was an incredibly strong and
interesting woman. And the older I got, the more I
started to appreciate a horrible series of choices she had
to make you know exactly what you're saying. So my

(41:30):
takeaway from this always is and why I cry at
the end of that episode every single time I see
that darn bedscene. Is it's worth it for that one
moment and then you go back to what you're doing.
But I guess it's worth it for that one moment.
But what are you missing?

Speaker 7 (41:48):
But I love that moment when she looks up at
her daughter and she says, you've lost babies And it's
never occurred to her, Oh, exactly, nobody's ever shared it
with her. It's never occurred to her like that has
not been something she's been in any way, shape or form.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Well, and as you said, nobody's ever shared it with her.
So the whole thing is you created. It's so interesting
you said that, because you created a situation. She's in
a situation where where no one will tell her anything anyway,
So it's almost like this self fulfilling prophecy. And she
doesn't really want to know because she's busy, but maybe

(42:22):
she did want to know, you know.

Speaker 7 (42:24):
Would she have been a different mother?

Speaker 2 (42:25):
But she had been a different mother. So it's always
that sliding doors of I created a situation which nobody
could tell me what was really going on because they
knew that my single mindedness was directing me. Here. What
did I miss?

Speaker 7 (42:37):
Do?

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I think she thinks about that much. No, because she's
a practical, forward thinking human. But I but that is. Yeah,
it's so incredibly relatable and moving.

Speaker 7 (42:53):
It's what's lost in the pursuit of greatness.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, that's it. That's exactly it.

Speaker 6 (42:57):
So this talk of sacrifice and it all being worth it,
and that last scene also makes me think about all
the people who asked about Brimsley and Reynolds. What's the
moment for Brimsley that makes it all worth it? Is
this something we have yet to see or are did
we not see it in we Well.

Speaker 7 (43:17):
Let's be clear, I don't know if that moment. I
mean that seems very clear. She said that moment makes
it all feel worth it, and then she's back in
her life again. So is there a moment that truly
makes it all feel worth that?

Speaker 8 (43:27):
She?

Speaker 7 (43:27):
To me the heartbreaking thing. The reason I cry at
the end of this the episode when we see them
under the bed together, is because that's what she gets.
She's had a lifetime and all she gets are these little,
tidy moments under the bed together where she can hope
to see glimpses of the George that she loved. You know,
that's opening a door and getting a peek and having
the door closed in your face. I don't know that

(43:49):
that makes anything all worth them. And I think that
this is a story about what happens in the pursuit
of greatness. They are all serving the king. The idea
that Brimsley's in a world in which that is what
the main focus is explains to you a lot of
his loneliness.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
And it's your whole identity, I mean his that's his
whole identity. It's what you're saying, Sean. It all boils
down to what do you give up? What do you
get for the pursuit of greatness?

Speaker 6 (44:16):
So, Betsy, I feel like that's a question. Do you
ask yourself that as the ep what is lost in
the pursuit of greatness? Like, I feel like that's a
big question.

Speaker 7 (44:28):
I was like, my god, that's that's the years of
therapy question, but also a real one.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
It is everybody who's incredibly devoted to a job that
they love about which they're incredibly passionate. It's one of
your main relationships in your life, and it has that
import and it has that value, and it means it's
sometimes you know, people are always saying, like I missed
this anniversary, or I missed some of the birth. There

(44:55):
there are things that you I think you balance every
day to try to figure out how important that is.
But we all think about all the time. But I
think if you're a perfectionist and you you really care
about what it is you're doing, it doesn't matter if
it's this or something else. You don't have a choice, Like, yeah,
I can't stop thinking about those things. And I want

(45:17):
to solve the problem, or I want to crack the net,
or I want to figure out what this piece of
story is that's in the back of my head, right,
And Shanda knows this. It's like we call them barking dogs.
It's the stuff that you know, keeps me awake sometimes.
But I get more joy also out of that. And
I think, not to the point God knows of being

(45:39):
king or Queen of England. Let's not get ahead of
ourselves here.

Speaker 7 (45:42):
But and that's the thing though, I mean, I think
that's the thing about the characters is we are talking
about people. And what fascinated me about the royals is
that they are trapped like, this is not a job
you expensively, This's not a job you can quit, This
is not a job you choose. This is a thing
that you know, they are going to be queen and
king forever. So for them, the pursuit of greatness isn't

(46:07):
it isn't a choice like it's you know, it wasn't
that long before that people were beheaded, you know. But
for them it's not a choice. They have to do
these jobs. Whereas for us, you know, we're people who
can redefine what we think greatness is every day.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
That's really well put.

Speaker 7 (46:22):
Yeah, they can't do that. They don't have the option
because all they have is what's public.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
But also because it's bloodline too. It's right, you never
can get out of it.

Speaker 7 (46:31):
That's what I found so fascinating about just the world
and even Queen Charlotte, Like she's that woman is trapped
and a job that she can't quit, do you know
what I mean? Like she's got to be the loneliest
woman in England.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
And she tries to quit it a couple of times
in this show. I mean, she's like, I'm going to
get I'm going to get on a horse in a boat,
I'm getting the hell out of here. And it was like, actually, no,
you can't, because then they will arrest you. Because you
will be treason. It's because you've got a baby in
your stuate's there's no free will passed a point. And
that's the thing is I think, I think we can
identify with the things that we all give up on

(47:07):
a day to day basis. But it's still, as Shanna says,
it's a choice for us. So but it definitely puts
our choices in perspective, that's for sure.

Speaker 7 (47:16):
Yes, imagine.

Speaker 6 (47:19):
Looking at Shondaland's history of depicting my person in Queen Charlotte,
intimacy is key in your writing and how Shawndaland's teams
have historically anchored shows that are about like the wild
and extravagant or far fetched and the routine kind of scenarios.
They're all anchored by intimacy. So there's a scene between

(47:41):
Corey and Freddy. Corey is young King George at a
long table. He's beginning to compensate or tremble, and Freddy
mentioned are Reynolds mentioned, the wine, you go where I'm going.

Speaker 7 (47:54):
I know where you're going. The incredible intimacy of him
putting his hand on his shoulder to study him. Now,
there's one thing that we did actually cut out of
the show. That's one scene that got cut out of
the show. There's an amazing scene at the beginning of
at the end of m said five where you or
Freddie tells what were Reynolds tells Brimsley his history with

(48:18):
the King, that they've known each other since they were children,
and that they kept each other's secrets. And I didn't
need that scene because when you watch them together, you
can see that that history and that intimacy and that
comfort level with one another. I mean, to me, what
was most key was Reynolds puts his hand on George's

(48:39):
shoulder when George needs it the most, and Brimsley can
only stand in a hallway and hold his hand out
in the direction of the Queen when she needs it
the most. He cannot put his hand on her. The
intimacy that Reynolds and George have is a much more
intense one built from years and years and years together
versus the fresh new intimacy between Brimsley and the Queen.

(49:02):
We're gonna take a really quick break in when we return.
We're just gonna jump in and we're going to unpack
your questions.

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Hi, it's me Shonda Rhimes. You're listening to Queen Charlotte
A bridgeton Story, the official podcast. Let's get into these
fan questions.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
But first, let's take a moment to talk about the
Garden situation.

Speaker 6 (52:31):
I think about the term you're my person. I think
about the garden conversation when talking about seeing like friendship
and intimacy. Betsy, can you talk about how that fits
across Shondaland's history of showing friendship.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
I think there's something about that that's both the same
and kind of different than what I would call this
sort of you're my person box. Because you're my person box,
I would put it the young Lady Danbury, young Queen Charlotte.
I think what I love about the garden scene is
it's Violet Danbury, who has no one to talk to

(53:10):
about this, and who with whom she has. I would
say a relationship with evolve so with the course of
the show, and at that particular point, it is not
fully evolved yet, So I don't think anybody's anybody's person
at that point. I think at that point what it
is is Violet Bridgerton's going through heat and she has nobody.

(53:31):
She looks around her world and she has kids, and
she has no other female friends. So it's much more
about Violet Bridgerton trying to share something, being relieved and
embarrassed she shared it, and then clutching her pan brag
and grabbing her purse and running out.

Speaker 6 (53:51):
You know, yes, my secondhand embarrassment was yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
But what I do think it is is it's a
building block in the hole, which it's a piece in
the hole, which is this how a relationship evolves over
the course, and it's one of my favorite things about
the show is watching two people who have always been
cordial and who have served each other's purposes over time.

(54:18):
And I think our friendly, you know, in terms of
these this period of time, but what happens over the
course of the show is they actually reach an understanding
which is way deeper and way more profound and sets
a different relationship in motion. And it's where it was
one of those things I watched and I went, I

(54:40):
want to see them after this has transpired as friends,
because they're different kinds of friends now. And going back
to your question about Shondaland, I think that's a lot
of or just about how we to pick female friendships,
which is clearly something which I think is core and
key certainly to what I love to to watch and

(55:00):
to work on. Is it's that relationships are filled with
changes and surprises and if you don't grow, it dies
kind of like her Garden.

Speaker 6 (55:11):
I love that they're imperfect, but they have to be.

Speaker 7 (55:14):
But to me, I feel like we're watching Violet, who's
a lady who, like you're saying, how does it relate
to my person or having a person. Violet's a person
without a person. Violet doesn't have a person, yea, Lady
dember It doesn't have kids. The point is that these
ladies are living these weird, isolated lives because they're not
considered to have full lives that they share with one another.
And the moment in which she shares sort of out

(55:35):
of desperation, is this wonderful door that opens to create
some intimacy between the two of them. That's still not
fully intimate relationship because Lady Danberry still got her own
secrets that she's keeping. Also, you know, I know that
we love to talk about female friendships and I know
how important it is, but nobody ever talks about male
friendships as if it's a remarkable, magical thing that men
can be friends. We're not just talking about the intimacy
of female friendships and portraying them very differently in this

(55:58):
show versus other shows. They are much closer to me.
All of these relationships that we're watching, and Queen Charlotte
are imperfect. Her marriage to George, it's an imperfect relationship,
and we're watching somebody figure out how to make an
imperfect relationship work. We're watching Lady Danbury do the same thing,
and we're watching lad Danbury do the same thing in
her friendship with Queen Charlotte, where there's huge power imbalance.

(56:19):
All of these relationships that we're looking at are imperfect relationships,
and yet people have found ways to step past all
those things that you know generally like everything needs to
be perfect to have a happy ending. None of these
stories have a happy ending, but they figure out how
to make them work, because that's what real life and
real love and real friendships really are about.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
And you don't take the ending into consideration in life.
You just take the process, you know. So it's all
we all talk about happy endings, and I jecob movies
because the our happy endings because then you leave and
you go home and you deal with the crap you
have at home. But it's the process and how the
relationships evolve.

Speaker 7 (56:56):
Yeah, I mean, watching Charlotte and George navigate what it is.
Obviously we already know the end when we begin, by
the way, and obviously a very damaged relationship fraught with
a lot of disappointments. And then you're watching Brimsley and Reynolds,
which their relationships are fraught with all of these barriers
and walls and rules about you know, how they can

(57:16):
be together, and Lady Danberry who's trapped in a marriage
that is not at all anything that she wants, and
how it brings her to a place where she understands
that she doesn't want a relationship at all. Like for me,
all of that is that was refreshing to see well,
and it's fun to work on. It's fun to write
because you get to show you know, there's a lot
of fairy tale in Bridgerton, and I didn't want Queen
Charlotte to be a fairy tale.

Speaker 6 (57:38):
So Miss Claudia on Instagram asks Shanda, what are your
thoughts on the perceived issues of fantasizing history, specifically when
it comes to the portrayal of people of color during
the eras the Bridge reverse spans, and she also asks
if there's an issue of erasure on some level.

Speaker 7 (57:58):
So I find that to be a fast question, mainly
because we've made clear that the Bridge of Verse is
its own world. We've been very clear that we're not
standing in actual history. We're talking about, you know, Queen
Charlotte is Bridgerton's Queen Charlotte story, which works for me
on the same level as saying, you know, I watched

(58:19):
some shows in the Marveling Universe, and I feel really
uncomfortable that we're erasing the history of robots or whatever.
Do you know what I mean? Like, it's if we're
talking about telling story in fiction. There is science fiction
obviously that you know, puts zombies in the middle of
the Nazi Germany or whatever, and nobody asks them about
that in the service of their storytelling. We have a

(58:41):
universe that we have created, and we have not actually
added science fiction to it. We haven't thrown random things
into it. We took a piece of history and we
extrapolated what would the story have been like if we
had gone in this direction, if the world had gone
in this direction, if Queen Charlotte had been a woman
of color. I don't think that we're a racing history
because I'm not trying to tell a history. I think
when you're watching a biopic or a docu series or whatever,

(59:04):
that's there's a real responsibility there. But we were telling
the story of Queen Charlotte from Bridgerton, which is not
the same as telling the story of Queen Charlotte as
she stood in history. And I should hope we're not
a racing history. My goal, by the way, is that
you then go back and spend a lot of time
reading and trying to figure out where everything lays down
and what was portrayed you know, from the actual history,

(59:27):
and what wasn't and what you can learn. Like I
spent a lot of time tracing the slavery timeline in
terms of these people and what it meant, because I
became fascinated by like what was actually there and what
was going on. Also, you know, I'm just not going
to tell stories where I'm not standing at the center,
where people who look like me aren't a part of
that story.

Speaker 6 (59:45):
I wonder for the both of you, how long you
have felt like you have the space to dream up
whatever you want and to just put it out there
for your own joy and not necessarily for the response,
And that if that's even a thing.

Speaker 7 (01:00:07):
We only make shows we'd like to watch, right, bet say,
that's our thing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Yeah, I can't work on anything that I don't want
to see or I don't want to say, or or
it's something that I don't see somewhere that needs to
be seen.

Speaker 7 (01:00:22):
We talk about this a lot, like our responsibility is
entertainment and storytelling. Our responsibility is to tell you a
story and entertaining. Our responsibility is not to tell you
a story that you necessarily are going to agree with
or reflects the story, because I always say, if I
told you the story that you wanted to hear, then
I wouldn't be telling you a story. I would just
be sort of regurgitating back to you you. I think

(01:00:43):
it's so important to tell people stories that challenge them
and challenge the way they like to perceive the world
or the way they're looking at things, or how they
feel things should be portrayed. And that's not an active
activism or anything. We're literally just telling good story that
makes us happy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
It's just, seriously, stuff I want to watch.

Speaker 7 (01:01:00):
If we were not making shows we want to watch,
then there's no point in making shows.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
And that's been true since the very beginning.

Speaker 7 (01:01:06):
Exactly all we know how to do is to make
shows we want to watch. That's literally always been our
only role. We will only make.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Shows that to watch and something we haven't done before.

Speaker 7 (01:01:15):
Right, we can't be something we've done before because we
get poored. But I get it, like I understand in
terms of representation, where if you have not been represented enough,
every representation becomes the representation, which to me is always
not a sign of that show didn't represent you correctly.
Like if you watch a show and you're like, I
didn't like how they portrayed this character, that show didn't
represent you correctly, it's a sign that there are not

(01:01:36):
enough stories being told that represent you. They're just not
enough stories being told where you can see yourself. It's
not any one storyteller's job to represent you. It's that
there should be such a diversity of storytelling that you
get to see yourself in a million different places. Because
I've never heard of a white man go I don't
feel correctly represented on television, Like no, because they see

(01:01:56):
themselves everywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
You'll find your yourself somewhere, right, if you don't like
your stelf and one, you'll find yourself in something else.
And to your point, and that's yeah, yeah, oh.

Speaker 7 (01:02:09):
We think about that when in terms characters a caller,
we think about it. When I'm to women, we think
about it when terms of core presentation, like we're really
trying to tell stories about humanity here like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Life, very often there's way more going on than you think.
And that's the other great thing is is people surprise you.
Sometimes they don't, but sometimes they do, and sometimes discovering
their reasons as to why they are the way they
are without it getting all trinky. But is why the

(01:02:40):
joy of this is being able to on some level
I can always relate to Like people go who's your
favorite character, and I'm like, well, right today it's this,
But tomorrow I'm going to relate to Queen Charlotte in
a different way. And tomorrow the next day I'm Reynolds man.
I'm having a Reynolds day. That's the fun part is
depending on where your head is, it's use your own
adventure sort of situation. I agree this is from Chaotic

(01:03:03):
Guitar Again, they asked about a particular scene. They said,
I found the scene where Charlotte asks Brimsley why he
never married very sad. Do you think that was in
aha moment for Charlotte that she actually never asked Brimsley
personal questions before?

Speaker 6 (01:03:19):
And then on another occasion I have heard the question
why was that conversation happening through the mirror?

Speaker 7 (01:03:27):
Well, let's talk about the fact that how often are
she and Brimsley staring one another in the face. That's
not very often he's always five paces behind her, which
is one of the reasons why the mirror works so well.
One but two. Look, it was definitely an AHA moment
for Queen Charlotte. I love Queen Charlotte. I love that character.
I loved writing her. But one of my favorite things
about her is she's the Queen. She's inherently selfish. Everything

(01:03:51):
about her world has been built for her, so it
has certainly never once occurred to her to ask Brimsley
personal questions about himself, you know what I mean. And
that doesn't make her a bad person. That makes her
the Queen. And I really enjoyed getting to to layer
that in. I love that moment when Agatha says, I've
been you know, I've been tending to issues from my

(01:04:12):
husband's you know, passing an estate. It is good to
be home. I have missed your company. Tell me what
if I missed while I was away.

Speaker 6 (01:04:21):
As for the ton, I have no gossip of consequence
to share.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
I have been occupied.

Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
Attending to the estate and the wake of the death
of my husband.

Speaker 9 (01:04:30):
Of course, you are mourning a great loss and the children.

Speaker 7 (01:04:38):
Is there anything I can do, Queen Charlotte, It's like oh, yes,
and then she's like, oh, wait, is there anything I
can do? Like it's never even occurred to her that
there's anything she could do, because her whole world is
geared to be about her. So yeah, I don't think
it's ever hurts her. And I love the look on
the actress Golda's face when Brimsley gives his answer and
then he walks away, because she has a very real

(01:04:59):
sense that he has sacrificed as much as she has
in that moment and knows that they can never discuss it.
I don't think you can maintain a distance between the
two of them with if they spent all their time
speaking intimately. There are two pieces to this I think
are really interesting. Is that he says to her about
her daughters, they could not leave you there trapped in time,

(01:05:19):
but neither could hear I mean. And that's the point.

Speaker 6 (01:05:23):
Oh, I'm really happy an oh moment.

Speaker 7 (01:05:29):
It's why he understand. If you watch the whole show
just from the perspective of just Brimsley, I think you
see a lot of things that maybe you wouldn't have
seen before.

Speaker 6 (01:05:38):
I never thought Brimsley thinking of himself as one of
Oh okay, but I guess I did, but I just
didn't package it like that.

Speaker 7 (01:05:47):
He's been with her longer than her children. He's been
with her longer than her dogs. He's been with her
longer than anybody in her life. They have the most.
He's been with her longer than her husband, more intimately
than her husband. They have the most intimate relationship that
she has in her work. Is that is our relationship with.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Him and by far the most man hours.

Speaker 7 (01:06:04):
Yeah, and they spend all their time together, Like she says,
we'll spend the rest of our lives together at the
beginning of the first end of the first episode, so angrily.
The reality of it is It's true. They spend their
lives together. They have the marriage. Thank you everybody so
much for paying attention and watching Queen Charlotte A Bridgeton Story,
listening to the podcast a Queen Charlotte a Bridgeton Story,
reading the book Queen Charlotte A Bridget and story. Betsy

(01:06:26):
and I enjoy talking to you, don't we, Betsy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
We definitely enjoy talking to you, and for me to
thank you so much for watching, reading, listening, and especially
for joining us for this podcast.

Speaker 7 (01:06:41):
Giving us an opportunity to talk to each other about
a project that we both.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Love, which I will always take an opportunity to do.

Speaker 7 (01:06:48):
Yep.

Speaker 6 (01:06:50):
As we draw a curtain on this season, I cannot
help but feel overwhelmed with the need to show my
gratitude to Shonda Rhymes, Betsy Bears, and the entire team
at shondaland we extend a heartfelt thank you for opening
the doors of the court and granting us access to

(01:07:12):
the profound parts of each artist involved in bringing Queen
Charlotte to life. Before we wrap, I must acknowledge Tom
Verica one last time, an inter real piece of the
puzzle You has lent his vision as a director in
shaping the visual world of Queen Charlotte and the culture
on set, and together, Shonda, Betsy and Tom have formed

(01:07:33):
a synergy that's brought this series to life right And
I know you're with me in applauding their talent for
assembling a bewitching blend of cast and crew that all
gave us Queen Charlotte. It's really been fun, y'all. This
has been such a great rop through the season with
the cast and to hang out and chat with remarkable
artists who continue to inspire and ignite our imaginations. Queen Charlotte,

(01:07:57):
a bridgeton story is just one testament to the growing
legacy of Shondaland and the enchantment of storytelling. The collective
brilliance is a Queen Charlotte. The Official podcast is executive
produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan, Akeia mcnight,

(01:08:17):
and me Gabby Collins. Our producer and editor is Tarry Harrison.
Subscribe to the podcast anywhere you get your favorite shows.
Get the book I'm a Crispy Turn the page, smell
the binding kind of Queen, but you can download it
until we meet again. Maybe all find inspiration in the grace,
elegance and audacity of Queen Charlotte. Thanks again for joining us,

(01:08:47):
Queen Charlotte. The Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland
Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.

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