June 13, 2023 • 30 mins
As Luke gets closer to the inner circle, Mikeila Valentine’s doubts about EPD begin driving her away from the group. She tries to free herself from Cecilia’s grasp – putting her life in peril. Detective Suzette Knoetze brings her expertise on The Occult to the murder cases, but quickly becomes wary of the other investigators who insist the murders are ceremonial.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
School of Humans. This show follows the investigation of serial
murders and contains material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
On our third day in South Africa, the winter clouds
parted and the sun warmed the earth. Producer Jennifer Zucchini
and I hopped in a car with Detective Ben Boysen,
who took us on a tour of krueger Storp.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And that's on the fifty meters from Cecila's flat.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Ben's wife Christelle and our fellow producer Jermaine joined us.
There were high end suburbs with nice homes perched on
hills that kind of reminded me of La Some areas
looked more suburban, some more rural and far more flat,
while other neighborhoods looked dilapidated, under resource forgotten.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
This area now is the worst GRAM area in Kruger's Door.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
We ended our tour at the home of epd's next victim.
The housing complex stood on a single lane road with
a field across the street. Not much was visible from
outside the walls. Like most of the homes in kruger Stourre,
it was protected by tall, imposing white walls, so then
it's a gated community, yeah, which is wild because that
(01:27):
gate is huge and this is a pretty privatized area,
So I mean someone had to help Mirinda and Marcel
to be able to get in here. As we looked around,
we were reminded that Ben Boysen is a popular guy
around these parts.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Well, and the ice.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Well, great garden track. Okay, the lady's staying in the outset,
we can go inside.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And just like that, the security gates parted and we
were welcomed in by Anna Marie, the woman who now
lives there. We got a tour of the home. It
looked just like many of the condos that I visited
as a kid in the suburbs of Chicago.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
It felt familiar, safe, But.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Then, knowing what had happened within those walls, gravity set in.
I suddenly couldn't stop thinking about the blood that was
shed right here in the room where I stood. Chills
ran down my spine. As Ben described the crime scene.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
The beating bought the wall and the roof was full
of blood.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
She mentioned there were scratch marks along.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
The door in the kitchen. There were deep grooves in
the corner of one of the old wooden doors leading
to the backyard one that required a skeleton key. Anna
Marie spoken Afrikaans, Christelle and Jermaine translated.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
What she's saying is that the neighbors actually informed it.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
It seems that those marks might be from when he
locked it into the house.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
So there's the little marks that were made from that
time on the door.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
From School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts, this is Queen
Havoc and her murder Cult, I'm your host, Kurt Koupachak,
Episode four Evil Ever After being in the house was eerie,
but it was nothing compared to being in Miranda's presence.
(03:22):
When I left the prison, I was relieved to find
Jermaine waiting for me by the car. I was so
shaken up. It was one of the most intense situations
I've ever experienced.
Speaker 7 (03:34):
We can call off the search.
Speaker 6 (03:35):
Body could looking very very frazzile. So I'm really keen
to see what is going to come from this.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
We're heading back to the hotel.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Now, We'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Are you okay?
Speaker 5 (03:53):
That was yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Let's just stand outside. Okay. Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Hearing that again brings you back to how rocked I was.
I didn't even have words to articulate my thoughts. It's
something I thought I was prepared for. I've been working
on this story for a couple of years, and I
knew I needed to be brave to walk into that prison.
But actually the hardest part was walking out, sitting down
with that kind of evil that stays with you. Here's
(04:25):
the person we're calling Luke, who spent some time around
Mirinda and the group. He refers to her by her profession,
the teacher.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
And if you look at the teacher, she didn't have
a good life. She struggled the whole life. She's also
got a lot of hurt, and she once belonging somewhere,
and the children got raised without her father's It's the
perfect evil set up to manipulating gains someone for your avantach.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Like Rhea, Mirinda was made vulnerable by her faith, by
her upbringing, and I suppose she was the victim in
her story. Here's journalist Maritzka Kotz there.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And Mirenda's she's got two sisters.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
I got to know the adds I made the grandmother.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
They you know what they are, these very conservative ladies,
and they don't swear, and they don't have hair out
of place, and they are.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So soft, maybe a bit too focused on propriety, and
maybe why Mirinda often felt out of place. To her,
it was slow death, and now she was trying to
live for something greater than herself, acting in God's name,
just like she'd been raised to. But in doing so
she became a monster.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
She'll kill Marcel, and she'll kill Lys. If they go
against Cecilia, she will kill And that's the bloody, sad
part of this old story.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
That choice haunts me. Her betrayal of her own kids,
the corruption of their innocence for what for her own
satisfaction of her psychopathology. When I spoke to her, she
actually brought this up totally imprompted.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
I study psychology.
Speaker 8 (06:07):
I studied psychology. My father was a psychologist. I know
I'm not a psychopath. I still have a conscience about.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Things, you know. But then she said this in almost
the same breath, if you turn off.
Speaker 8 (06:21):
Do you kissing every time after I kill someone?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
It's like.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
A relief.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Psychologist.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Rosalind McNabb told producer Jennifer Tacchini what was happening in
this case.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Psychopathology is a personality disorder cat grasped as antisocial. It's
that manipulation, that calculating ability, the ability to do something
that is antisocial.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What do you do if your mother or the mother
you've been given to, actively goes against society with craven hostility.
Journalist Jana Marx writes in her book that Marcel coped
with her strange existence by working extremely hard at school,
getting straight a's, and Mirinda was so compromised that she
sent her high achieving daughter to live with Cecilia.
Speaker 6 (07:19):
She was thirteen when she moved in with Cecilia. She
was literally told to live with Cecilia, babysit for Cecilia's kids,
clean up for Cecilia, do everything. So this was really
an abandoned kid.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
LaRue, on the other hand, used drugs as a way
to escape. He tried running away a few times, but
then he would quickly return. Didn't take him long to
learn he had nowhere else to go, no one to
help him, and out there on his own, his choices
only became more grim. The Rue and Marcel were kept
from their father by their mother, Mirinda.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
They were told her dad does not want to see you.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But that's not to say her kids didn't have any
male role models in their life. No for a father replacement.
The kids had Zach Valentine talk about toxic LaRue looked
up to him, while Marcel took to Mikayla. But Michaela
was becoming desperate to get away from her husband, to
get away from Cecilia, Mirinda, all of them, even the kids.
(08:25):
The horror of the murders had not left her. She
could not forget what they did.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
When she realized that her husband was now killing people,
she started writing poems from the Bible versus on this warrior.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Michaela had been so isolated by EPD she didn't know
where else to turn. She felt like she was losing
her grip. As her sanity started to unravel, she leaned
harder into her faith. A personal favorite Bible quote of
Michaela's fear not for I am with THEE. The God
of Mikayla's faith would never condone census killing. A book
(09:04):
she read on spirituality back that up.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
She decided, no, I'm reading this book, Fruits of Life,
and in that book she came to realize God will
never ask you to murder anybody.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
She knew she needed to flee from Cecilia and electus perdeis,
even if escaping meant she'd have to leave the Colt
without her husband. First, she had to muster the courage
to confront Zach. Ever since he'd killed Pastor Reginald ben Dixon,
things had been weird between them. Zach was changing into
someone she didn't recognize. Michaela was also stressed about the
(09:42):
couple's finances. Zach was spending heavily on Cecilia's medical bills
and pulling big chunks from their savings to support her
alleged overseas orphanage. Soon he was handing over far more
money than they earned. When Michaela finally told her husband
that she wanted to leave EPD, Zach listened, then he
(10:02):
calmly suggested they pray on it.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Weeks past, Mikaela found a mother and she said, listen,
this stuff that I did, and I'm going to the police,
and I'm sorry for what's going to happen, and i
cannot tell you what it is now, but you'll see
I'm apologizing now.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
For most of twenty twelve, Mikaela Valentine would lead work
early every Thursday so she could stay by Cecilia's bedside.
As the year wore on and her doubts about Cecilia
and Zach became impossible to ignore. She started indirectly crying
out for help. Once Michaela mentioned a one coworker that
she needed to take some time off her reason so
(10:54):
she could help her friends build car bombs. This person
was later questioned by Susette about why she never reported
that alarming information.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
She said She's spoken to a Osmond and a husband said,
this is just unbelievable. Just don't go to the police.
That gonna think you crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So often in stories like this, we wonder why didn't
anyone say anything sound the alarm, ask for help. People
feel like it's not their place, and who would believe them.
Michayla's stories about Cecilia's prayer group were so outlandish, how
could they possibly be true? Like many others in this story,
(11:30):
Michayla's coworker chose to stay silent. Cut to October twenty twelve.
By then, Cecilia had figured out that Michayla was a
flight risk and posed a threat to all of them.
Michayla knew way too much. If she went to the police,
(11:53):
that would be the end. Cecilia and Mirinda began feeding
Zach lyes about his wife Here's Luke.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
She has absolutely a mastermind. She knows how to manipulate people.
She lied about Michaela to provoke soccagainst it.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
It was about this time that Cecilia turned her manipulation
full tilt to seduce Zach Here's journalist Jana Marx.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It came to light that he had understanding that he
was married to the wrong woman, Mikayla, that Celia was
actually tasting to be his wife.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
She started playing a psychological game with him. So she's
a very dangerous person.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
On Wednesday, October three, twenty twelve, almost two months after
Reginald ben Dixon was killed, Michaela mustered up the courage
to confront her spiritual master and tell her that she
was leaving EPD. When she arrived at Casana Flats, Michaela
was escorted into Cecilia's bedroom. The door was closed behind her.
(13:02):
Marcel waited out in the living room. One on ones
with Cecilia were rare and unpredictable and could create tension
within the group. Silence minutes past, but then the door
to Cecilia's room opened. Mikayla emerged. She was light, ebulent,
(13:29):
free Michaela said her goodbyes to Mirinda, to LaRue and
to her surrogate baby sister, Marcel. I would guess that
some part of her wish she could take Marcel away
with her. Then Michayla exited Casana Flats for the last time,
excited for her future.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
She was in a good place at that stage, chucking
everybody away. You know, say, I don't want Marianell my
life anymore. I don't want Cecilia on my life anymore.
And she told her usband, you must it's Meo or Cecilia.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
The next morning, October fourth, Michaela wakes up next to Zach.
They open their eyes. It's a normal day, like any other.
It's Thursday, the day she'd usually take care of Cecilia,
but today she's her own woman.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
She tends to herself instead.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
She makes coffee for her and Zach before he leaves
for his office at Discovery Life Insurance.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Cecilia told Zach they must give a sleeping tablets in
a coffee.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
While Mikayla's back is turned, Zach drops two sleeping pills
into her morning coffee and watches them dissolve. Suddenly, drowsy,
Michaela says she'll probably go back to bed. Zach says
goodbye and leaves for work. Just a heads up, this
next part is quite upsetting. If you, or someone with
you is a sensitive listener, you might want to skip
(15:01):
ahead by a minute or two. Mikayla isn't in bed
long before Marenda comes through their front door, armed with
a hammer and a set of knives. Her daughter, Marcel
follows obediently. Mirinda creeps into the bedroom, hammer in hand.
(15:22):
She stands over the sleeping Mikayla.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
When Maranda came in, marandaita with a I'm on the eighth.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Marcel stands frozen in the doorway, watching as her mother
is about to murder her only friend. When I spoke
to Mirenda in prison, she chillingly described to me what
happened next.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
I have this thing in my hat that I have
to eat it to incapacitate it because she's young. And
then she opened her eyes and she was all dragged.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Mikayla wasn't fully asleep, she.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Awaked it actually, and then she looked at Maranda and
de Marna told her, Mikaela, you now need to star
to pray, because now I'm going.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
To kill you.
Speaker 8 (16:02):
And then and then she closed her eyes and she
started prying out loud, and she pried, and I letter
pray and until she finished, and then I stabbed it.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Marcel nearly faints. She catches herself and leans on the
doorframe for support. Her mother seems to forget that she's
even there. Mirinda uses a crude knife on Michayla, one
made for skinning fish. Without looking back, Mirinda shouts where
are you to her daughter. Marcella is still holding herself
up with the doorframe frozen. She knows she'll be in
(16:35):
trouble with Cecilia if she doesn't honor her instructions. Fear
animates her limbs. Marcella approaches Michayla. Her friend's eyes are
glazed over. Blood is everywhere as the life leaks from
her body. Michayla's prayers fall weakly from her lips. Marcel
stands over Michayla. She looks down at her. She feels
(16:57):
the menace of the knife in her hand and her
mother's hot stare. Then Marcel surprises herself. She stabs Michaela
in the abdomen on her left side.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Marcel only stabbed at once with.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Her knife stuck inside Michayla's body. Marcel lies. She tells
her mother it won't go in. My knife is not
sharp enough. That's okay, says Mirinda. Her mother reassures her,
I'm almost through. Marcel pulls out the knife she's stuck
in the side of her only ally, she looks at
the blood on the blade. The praying stops. Michaela's lifts
(17:29):
stop moving. Now she can hear her mother breathing heavily
over Michaela's fatal silence. Marcel stares at the beads of
sweat on her mother's brow, her blood speckled face. Mikayla's
brief gasp of freedom was short lived, and.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
She stabbed her sixty four times. Unbelievable. So, but this
is hows with you where they used.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
To stay.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Before they leave. Marcel helps her mother pull the divey
over Mikayla. Merinda adds an electric blanket.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
She switches it on.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Cecilia had told her followers that the time of death
is difficult to determine if a body is exposed to
extreme heat. They take Michayla's phone, pocket her wedding ring,
use the blood coated hammer to batter Mikayla's tablet to
pieces so it can't be tracked. They aim to make
it look like a home invasion and robbery. After they
(18:34):
leave the scene, mother and daughter scatter all of these
items and the murder weapons, dropping them from their car window.
At various points on their drive back to Casana Flats,
EPD gathered together and were reminded of the price of
defying Cecilia. Here's journalist Mritzka Katz there.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Mikaila was always the example. You know, remember what happened
to Michaela.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
The threat of reprisal for defying Cecilia was now a
promise to the group. Zach proved that he would sacrifice
his wife to their queen, and Marinda seemed even more
compelled to be the best, the favorite, the most committed,
no matter what the cost. At three point thirty PM,
(19:40):
Zach Valentine returns home.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
He's not alone the buzando I was supposed to sell DoLS.
He might shure that day before he met the guet.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
He's with a real estate agent named Estelle. In order
for his alibi to be air tight, someone has to
be there when he discovers his wife's body. Zach had
arranged to meet a Stelle at his house after work
so she could take some photos. Estelle later testified that
she waited at the front door with her colleague while
Zack went in to greet his wife. The reel at
(20:12):
her noticed an ashtray had been knocked under the ground.
There was ash all over the carpet. The house smelled
of cigarette smoke, alcohol, and men's yodor. Something's not right,
she whispered to her assistant. Then they heard Zack shouting
from the other room.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
It was doc in a room and he came out
and he said to the woman, please come come look.
I think my wife is date.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
When Estelle gets to the bedroom, she can't tell what's happening,
not until she switches on the light. When she does,
she sees someone under the covers of the bed, and
there's blood everywhere, like everywhere. Zach doesn't touch his wife's
dead body. He just stands there. A Stelle yells to
her assistant to call the police. She pulls Zack gently
(20:58):
away from the side of his wife. Is she really dead?
Zach asks. Once he's out of the bedroom. A Stelle
goes back to the bedside to check to be sure there.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Was a lot of blood. Everything was blood. She was mutilated.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Mikayla's gone, A Stelle says. Zach walks to the fridge.
He chugs an entire cartner fruit juice. A Stelle watches him.
Then she grabs two cups, thinking some water would be
good for her and her colleague. But her hands are
trembling so much she drops the glasses. They shatter against
the tile floor, and.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Then the woman ask him, are you not going to
find somebody?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Zach doesn't answer. Instead, he wonders aloud where the cats are?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
She said, find your patents and find the police. Okay,
you find these patents, and she found the police. Because
he didn't find the police, he never touched his wife.
Then you just ask, we must look for my cats.
Where is my cats? And they found the cats in
one of the rooms, opened the door and the cats
ran out. And then you walked outside and went to
(22:07):
stand next to this wall smoking. Does he get it?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
His phone rings? It's his father.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
A Stelle listens as Zach pleads with his father to
come to the house. A Stelle is relieved that Zach
has someone to talk to, someone who can be there
with him. The three of them wait in the living
room for what to Estelle feels like ours. Zack inquires
if the potential buyers are still coming this afternoon, will
(22:37):
you still be able to sell the house? He asks, No,
I've canceled the appointment. A Stelle responds. His wife's body
is lying lifeless in the next room, growing colder by
the minute. It's all a Stelle can think about. But
Zach wants to know if the house will sell. Maybe
he's in shock, a Stelle tells herself. Zach leans forward,
(23:00):
face in hands. He says, I didn't want to trick
my wife. Stelle pretends not to have heard that. She
gets up and steps outside. She can hear the sirens
that are to her relief, now approaching. The police take
control of the crime scene. They hustle everyone outside and
(23:20):
begin taking statements and document the murder with photographs. Mikayla's
parents arrive in hysterics. A grief councilor speaks with Michaela's parents,
but they're interrupted when the councilor hears laughter at the
murder scene. She turns and is stunned when she sees it.
Zach and his parents.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
They were standing mixed to him at the wall, and
they were laughing.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Zach and his parents are introduced to the grief and
trauma counselor. The family makes it known that they are
children of God and they don't need to speak with anybody.
The grief counselor notes that Zach's eyes are dry. Zach
complains aloud that all this is taking so long. The realtor,
A Stelle, attempts to compassionately explain to him that the
(24:04):
police have to photograph the house from every angle. Oh
so you'll get some photos, just not the ones you wanted,
Zach sarcastically says to an astounded Stelle. Around eleven PM
that night, the police finally let the families back into
(24:24):
the house. Mikayla's mother pulls Zach aside. She wants to
know was Mikaela a Satanist. Zach assures her that her
daughter was not. The police find assassination kits next to
the couple's bed. Each member of EPD has their own kit.
It contains gloves, a ski mask, cable ties, knives, strangling wire,
(24:46):
and a handgun. This discovery alone should have alerted the
detectives that something illegal was going on. People don't typically
have strangling wire in their bedside tables, but for whatever reason,
the police decide to overlook the matching his and hers
assassination kits. Before leaving the murder scene, the trauma counselor
approaches Zach one last time, nearly everyone else is left.
(25:11):
She asks Zach if he has a friend to stay
with or if he's going to stay with his parents.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
And he said, now he's going to sleep there. So
he turned that mattress that was full of bloody, turned
around and he sleeped in the same bed that this
was killed.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Unbelievable, no waybelievable.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
That night, after flipping the mattress, Zach puts a clean
set of sheets on the bed. He lies down next
to the spot where his wife was murdered, and he
falls asleep. Captain Van Vick was stricken when he heard
the news of Michaela's murder. He's the officer who brought
(25:50):
in all the members of EPD but didn't have enough
to convict them. But he did have ample evidence to
apply for a search warrant that would have covered Zack
and McKay's house.
Speaker 7 (26:01):
We started to compile evidence. She admitted the statement to
a prosecutor. We approached him, he told him of the application.
He told us to give him the document and he
needed a few days to apply his mind.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Those few days were a few too many.
Speaker 7 (26:16):
Unfortunately, two days after we gave him the document, we
received the call that Mikaela was Unfortunately, she was murdered.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Hearing this blew my mind. How devastating. This is one
of the critical errors that may have cost the life
of Michaela and the lives of seven others. Unfortunately, for
reasons that defy explanation, the police remained distracted by the
swirl of coincidence and fears of an occult connection. Enter
(26:46):
detectives susc canose.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
The fact was right in front of him, but their
attention was drawn to sensation, and you can't investigate like that.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
After the new use Michaela's murder broke, Ria Grunewald finally
came to terms with the ugly truth she'd been trying
to dodge. Cecilia was in fact capable of mass murder.
She had to be behind it, all, the threats, the bombings,
the murders, everything.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I interviewed Ria, but she at some stage, because obviously
of being very scared of Celia, she ran off and
didn't want to talk to the police anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Meanwhile, with one less member, the walls of EPD came
down just enough to let Luke our infiltrator in for
real this time. But first he needed to be just
as guilty as the rest of them.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
We spoke about killing Ria Joshua.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Joshua will neven know how close he was to the
so many times.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Fortunately for Joshua, Luke wasn't a killer.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
But then one of the witnesses that was part of
the group at some stage that brought him to me
and he was asked to help with this conspiracy of murder,
and that was with Rhea's son.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Detective Susette officially took over the murder investigations, which coincided
perfectly with Luke's plans to turn EPD in. Things were
heating up at Casana Flats and Luke's loyalty to Cecilia
officially became a matter of life or death.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
You know, we're natural time and that course my time.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
On the next episode of Queen Havoc.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
When we went to search the apartment we had Warren,
I went into Cecilia's room. I started asking her some
questions about the Occulton. She couldn't answer me.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I know if they're going to do something now. The
spotlight is on there, and that's why they stopped with
the killings and stuff.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Actually run from my life. I was almost managed Date nine.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult is a production of
Schooly Humans and iHeart Podcasts. Queen Havoc is hosted and
created by me Kurt Kupachick, produced and written by Jennifer Tacchini,
Julia Christgau, and Kurt Kupachick. Lead producer is Julia Chriskau.
Story editor is Saren Burnett. Senior producer is Amelia Brock.
(29:28):
Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell, editing,
sound design and scoring by Jesse Niswanger. Associate producers are
DaShan Moodley and Jamaine Kriher. Additional producing by Ben Mellman,
fact checking by Dennis Webster. Recording engineers are Graham Gibson,
(29:53):
Clay Hillenberg, and Josh Hook. Brind Stein was read by
Angelique Pretorius. Executive producer are Virginia Prescott, LC Crowley, Brandon Barr,
Jennifer Takeiny and Kurt Kupachak. We want to thank all
of those who so generously welcomed us in South Africa
and shared their stories.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
We're incredibly grateful to you all.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
We also want to acknowledge how traumatic these events are
for the victims and their families. Please respect their privacy.
If you or someone you know has been affected by
cult behaviors, there are resources available, including Voices for Dignity,
at Christine Murray dot com.
School of Humans. This show follows the investigation of serial
murders and contains material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
On our third day in South Africa, the winter clouds
parted and the sun warmed the earth. Producer Jennifer Zucchini
and I hopped in a car with Detective Ben Boysen,
who took us on a tour of krueger Storp.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And that's on the fifty meters from Cecila's flat.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Ben's wife Christelle and our fellow producer Jermaine joined us.
There were high end suburbs with nice homes perched on
hills that kind of reminded me of La Some areas
looked more suburban, some more rural and far more flat,
while other neighborhoods looked dilapidated, under resource forgotten.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
This area now is the worst GRAM area in Kruger's Door.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
We ended our tour at the home of epd's next victim.
The housing complex stood on a single lane road with
a field across the street. Not much was visible from
outside the walls. Like most of the homes in kruger Stourre,
it was protected by tall, imposing white walls, so then
it's a gated community, yeah, which is wild because that
(01:27):
gate is huge and this is a pretty privatized area,
So I mean someone had to help Mirinda and Marcel
to be able to get in here. As we looked around,
we were reminded that Ben Boysen is a popular guy
around these parts.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Well, and the ice.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Well, great garden track. Okay, the lady's staying in the outset,
we can go inside.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And just like that, the security gates parted and we
were welcomed in by Anna Marie, the woman who now
lives there. We got a tour of the home. It
looked just like many of the condos that I visited
as a kid in the suburbs of Chicago.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
It felt familiar, safe, But.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Then, knowing what had happened within those walls, gravity set in.
I suddenly couldn't stop thinking about the blood that was
shed right here in the room where I stood. Chills
ran down my spine. As Ben described the crime scene.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
The beating bought the wall and the roof was full
of blood.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
She mentioned there were scratch marks along.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
The door in the kitchen. There were deep grooves in
the corner of one of the old wooden doors leading
to the backyard one that required a skeleton key. Anna
Marie spoken Afrikaans, Christelle and Jermaine translated.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
What she's saying is that the neighbors actually informed it.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
It seems that those marks might be from when he
locked it into the house.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
So there's the little marks that were made from that
time on the door.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
From School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts, this is Queen
Havoc and her murder Cult, I'm your host, Kurt Koupachak,
Episode four Evil Ever After being in the house was eerie,
but it was nothing compared to being in Miranda's presence.
(03:22):
When I left the prison, I was relieved to find
Jermaine waiting for me by the car. I was so
shaken up. It was one of the most intense situations
I've ever experienced.
Speaker 7 (03:34):
We can call off the search.
Speaker 6 (03:35):
Body could looking very very frazzile. So I'm really keen
to see what is going to come from this.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
We're heading back to the hotel.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Now, We'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Are you okay?
Speaker 5 (03:53):
That was yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Let's just stand outside. Okay. Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Hearing that again brings you back to how rocked I was.
I didn't even have words to articulate my thoughts. It's
something I thought I was prepared for. I've been working
on this story for a couple of years, and I
knew I needed to be brave to walk into that prison.
But actually the hardest part was walking out, sitting down
with that kind of evil that stays with you. Here's
(04:25):
the person we're calling Luke, who spent some time around
Mirinda and the group. He refers to her by her profession,
the teacher.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
And if you look at the teacher, she didn't have
a good life. She struggled the whole life. She's also
got a lot of hurt, and she once belonging somewhere,
and the children got raised without her father's It's the
perfect evil set up to manipulating gains someone for your avantach.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Like Rhea, Mirinda was made vulnerable by her faith, by
her upbringing, and I suppose she was the victim in
her story. Here's journalist Maritzka Kotz there.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And Mirenda's she's got two sisters.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
I got to know the adds I made the grandmother.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
They you know what they are, these very conservative ladies,
and they don't swear, and they don't have hair out
of place, and they are.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So soft, maybe a bit too focused on propriety, and
maybe why Mirinda often felt out of place. To her,
it was slow death, and now she was trying to
live for something greater than herself, acting in God's name,
just like she'd been raised to. But in doing so
she became a monster.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
She'll kill Marcel, and she'll kill Lys. If they go
against Cecilia, she will kill And that's the bloody, sad
part of this old story.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
That choice haunts me. Her betrayal of her own kids,
the corruption of their innocence for what for her own
satisfaction of her psychopathology. When I spoke to her, she
actually brought this up totally imprompted.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
I study psychology.
Speaker 8 (06:07):
I studied psychology. My father was a psychologist. I know
I'm not a psychopath. I still have a conscience about.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Things, you know. But then she said this in almost
the same breath, if you turn off.
Speaker 8 (06:21):
Do you kissing every time after I kill someone?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
It's like.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
A relief.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Psychologist.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Rosalind McNabb told producer Jennifer Tacchini what was happening in
this case.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Psychopathology is a personality disorder cat grasped as antisocial. It's
that manipulation, that calculating ability, the ability to do something
that is antisocial.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What do you do if your mother or the mother
you've been given to, actively goes against society with craven hostility.
Journalist Jana Marx writes in her book that Marcel coped
with her strange existence by working extremely hard at school,
getting straight a's, and Mirinda was so compromised that she
sent her high achieving daughter to live with Cecilia.
Speaker 6 (07:19):
She was thirteen when she moved in with Cecilia. She
was literally told to live with Cecilia, babysit for Cecilia's kids,
clean up for Cecilia, do everything. So this was really
an abandoned kid.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
LaRue, on the other hand, used drugs as a way
to escape. He tried running away a few times, but
then he would quickly return. Didn't take him long to
learn he had nowhere else to go, no one to
help him, and out there on his own, his choices
only became more grim. The Rue and Marcel were kept
from their father by their mother, Mirinda.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
They were told her dad does not want to see you.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But that's not to say her kids didn't have any
male role models in their life. No for a father replacement.
The kids had Zach Valentine talk about toxic LaRue looked
up to him, while Marcel took to Mikayla. But Michaela
was becoming desperate to get away from her husband, to
get away from Cecilia, Mirinda, all of them, even the kids.
(08:25):
The horror of the murders had not left her. She
could not forget what they did.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
When she realized that her husband was now killing people,
she started writing poems from the Bible versus on this warrior.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Michaela had been so isolated by EPD she didn't know
where else to turn. She felt like she was losing
her grip. As her sanity started to unravel, she leaned
harder into her faith. A personal favorite Bible quote of
Michaela's fear not for I am with THEE. The God
of Mikayla's faith would never condone census killing. A book
(09:04):
she read on spirituality back that up.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
She decided, no, I'm reading this book, Fruits of Life,
and in that book she came to realize God will
never ask you to murder anybody.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
She knew she needed to flee from Cecilia and electus perdeis,
even if escaping meant she'd have to leave the Colt
without her husband. First, she had to muster the courage
to confront Zach. Ever since he'd killed Pastor Reginald ben Dixon,
things had been weird between them. Zach was changing into
someone she didn't recognize. Michaela was also stressed about the
(09:42):
couple's finances. Zach was spending heavily on Cecilia's medical bills
and pulling big chunks from their savings to support her
alleged overseas orphanage. Soon he was handing over far more
money than they earned. When Michaela finally told her husband
that she wanted to leave EPD, Zach listened, then he
(10:02):
calmly suggested they pray on it.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Weeks past, Mikaela found a mother and she said, listen,
this stuff that I did, and I'm going to the police,
and I'm sorry for what's going to happen, and i
cannot tell you what it is now, but you'll see
I'm apologizing now.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
For most of twenty twelve, Mikaela Valentine would lead work
early every Thursday so she could stay by Cecilia's bedside.
As the year wore on and her doubts about Cecilia
and Zach became impossible to ignore. She started indirectly crying
out for help. Once Michaela mentioned a one coworker that
she needed to take some time off her reason so
(10:54):
she could help her friends build car bombs. This person
was later questioned by Susette about why she never reported
that alarming information.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
She said She's spoken to a Osmond and a husband said,
this is just unbelievable. Just don't go to the police.
That gonna think you crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So often in stories like this, we wonder why didn't
anyone say anything sound the alarm, ask for help. People
feel like it's not their place, and who would believe them.
Michayla's stories about Cecilia's prayer group were so outlandish, how
could they possibly be true? Like many others in this story,
(11:30):
Michayla's coworker chose to stay silent. Cut to October twenty twelve.
By then, Cecilia had figured out that Michayla was a
flight risk and posed a threat to all of them.
Michayla knew way too much. If she went to the police,
(11:53):
that would be the end. Cecilia and Mirinda began feeding
Zach lyes about his wife Here's Luke.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
She has absolutely a mastermind. She knows how to manipulate people.
She lied about Michaela to provoke soccagainst it.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
It was about this time that Cecilia turned her manipulation
full tilt to seduce Zach Here's journalist Jana Marx.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It came to light that he had understanding that he
was married to the wrong woman, Mikayla, that Celia was
actually tasting to be his wife.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
She started playing a psychological game with him. So she's
a very dangerous person.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
On Wednesday, October three, twenty twelve, almost two months after
Reginald ben Dixon was killed, Michaela mustered up the courage
to confront her spiritual master and tell her that she
was leaving EPD. When she arrived at Casana Flats, Michaela
was escorted into Cecilia's bedroom. The door was closed behind her.
(13:02):
Marcel waited out in the living room. One on ones
with Cecilia were rare and unpredictable and could create tension
within the group. Silence minutes past, but then the door
to Cecilia's room opened. Mikayla emerged. She was light, ebulent,
(13:29):
free Michaela said her goodbyes to Mirinda, to LaRue and
to her surrogate baby sister, Marcel. I would guess that
some part of her wish she could take Marcel away
with her. Then Michayla exited Casana Flats for the last time,
excited for her future.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
She was in a good place at that stage, chucking
everybody away. You know, say, I don't want Marianell my
life anymore. I don't want Cecilia on my life anymore.
And she told her usband, you must it's Meo or Cecilia.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
The next morning, October fourth, Michaela wakes up next to Zach.
They open their eyes. It's a normal day, like any other.
It's Thursday, the day she'd usually take care of Cecilia,
but today she's her own woman.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
She tends to herself instead.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
She makes coffee for her and Zach before he leaves
for his office at Discovery Life Insurance.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Cecilia told Zach they must give a sleeping tablets in
a coffee.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
While Mikayla's back is turned, Zach drops two sleeping pills
into her morning coffee and watches them dissolve. Suddenly, drowsy,
Michaela says she'll probably go back to bed. Zach says
goodbye and leaves for work. Just a heads up, this
next part is quite upsetting. If you, or someone with
you is a sensitive listener, you might want to skip
(15:01):
ahead by a minute or two. Mikayla isn't in bed
long before Marenda comes through their front door, armed with
a hammer and a set of knives. Her daughter, Marcel
follows obediently. Mirinda creeps into the bedroom, hammer in hand.
(15:22):
She stands over the sleeping Mikayla.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
When Maranda came in, marandaita with a I'm on the eighth.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Marcel stands frozen in the doorway, watching as her mother
is about to murder her only friend. When I spoke
to Mirenda in prison, she chillingly described to me what
happened next.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
I have this thing in my hat that I have
to eat it to incapacitate it because she's young. And
then she opened her eyes and she was all dragged.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Mikayla wasn't fully asleep, she.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Awaked it actually, and then she looked at Maranda and
de Marna told her, Mikaela, you now need to star
to pray, because now I'm going.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
To kill you.
Speaker 8 (16:02):
And then and then she closed her eyes and she
started prying out loud, and she pried, and I letter
pray and until she finished, and then I stabbed it.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Marcel nearly faints. She catches herself and leans on the
doorframe for support. Her mother seems to forget that she's
even there. Mirinda uses a crude knife on Michayla, one
made for skinning fish. Without looking back, Mirinda shouts where
are you to her daughter. Marcella is still holding herself
up with the doorframe frozen. She knows she'll be in
(16:35):
trouble with Cecilia if she doesn't honor her instructions. Fear
animates her limbs. Marcella approaches Michayla. Her friend's eyes are
glazed over. Blood is everywhere as the life leaks from
her body. Michayla's prayers fall weakly from her lips. Marcel
stands over Michayla. She looks down at her. She feels
(16:57):
the menace of the knife in her hand and her
mother's hot stare. Then Marcel surprises herself. She stabs Michaela
in the abdomen on her left side.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Marcel only stabbed at once with.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Her knife stuck inside Michayla's body. Marcel lies. She tells
her mother it won't go in. My knife is not
sharp enough. That's okay, says Mirinda. Her mother reassures her,
I'm almost through. Marcel pulls out the knife she's stuck
in the side of her only ally, she looks at
the blood on the blade. The praying stops. Michaela's lifts
(17:29):
stop moving. Now she can hear her mother breathing heavily
over Michaela's fatal silence. Marcel stares at the beads of
sweat on her mother's brow, her blood speckled face. Mikayla's
brief gasp of freedom was short lived, and.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
She stabbed her sixty four times. Unbelievable. So, but this
is hows with you where they used.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
To stay.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Before they leave. Marcel helps her mother pull the divey
over Mikayla. Merinda adds an electric blanket.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
She switches it on.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Cecilia had told her followers that the time of death
is difficult to determine if a body is exposed to
extreme heat. They take Michayla's phone, pocket her wedding ring,
use the blood coated hammer to batter Mikayla's tablet to
pieces so it can't be tracked. They aim to make
it look like a home invasion and robbery. After they
(18:34):
leave the scene, mother and daughter scatter all of these
items and the murder weapons, dropping them from their car window.
At various points on their drive back to Casana Flats,
EPD gathered together and were reminded of the price of
defying Cecilia. Here's journalist Mritzka Katz there.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Mikaila was always the example. You know, remember what happened
to Michaela.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
The threat of reprisal for defying Cecilia was now a
promise to the group. Zach proved that he would sacrifice
his wife to their queen, and Marinda seemed even more
compelled to be the best, the favorite, the most committed,
no matter what the cost. At three point thirty PM,
(19:40):
Zach Valentine returns home.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
He's not alone the buzando I was supposed to sell DoLS.
He might shure that day before he met the guet.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
He's with a real estate agent named Estelle. In order
for his alibi to be air tight, someone has to
be there when he discovers his wife's body. Zach had
arranged to meet a Stelle at his house after work
so she could take some photos. Estelle later testified that
she waited at the front door with her colleague while
Zack went in to greet his wife. The reel at
(20:12):
her noticed an ashtray had been knocked under the ground.
There was ash all over the carpet. The house smelled
of cigarette smoke, alcohol, and men's yodor. Something's not right,
she whispered to her assistant. Then they heard Zack shouting
from the other room.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
It was doc in a room and he came out
and he said to the woman, please come come look.
I think my wife is date.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
When Estelle gets to the bedroom, she can't tell what's happening,
not until she switches on the light. When she does,
she sees someone under the covers of the bed, and
there's blood everywhere, like everywhere. Zach doesn't touch his wife's
dead body. He just stands there. A Stelle yells to
her assistant to call the police. She pulls Zack gently
(20:58):
away from the side of his wife. Is she really dead?
Zach asks. Once he's out of the bedroom. A Stelle
goes back to the bedside to check to be sure there.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Was a lot of blood. Everything was blood. She was mutilated.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Mikayla's gone, A Stelle says. Zach walks to the fridge.
He chugs an entire cartner fruit juice. A Stelle watches him.
Then she grabs two cups, thinking some water would be
good for her and her colleague. But her hands are
trembling so much she drops the glasses. They shatter against
the tile floor, and.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Then the woman ask him, are you not going to
find somebody?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Zach doesn't answer. Instead, he wonders aloud where the cats are?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
She said, find your patents and find the police. Okay,
you find these patents, and she found the police. Because
he didn't find the police, he never touched his wife.
Then you just ask, we must look for my cats.
Where is my cats? And they found the cats in
one of the rooms, opened the door and the cats
ran out. And then you walked outside and went to
(22:07):
stand next to this wall smoking. Does he get it?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
His phone rings? It's his father.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
A Stelle listens as Zach pleads with his father to
come to the house. A Stelle is relieved that Zach
has someone to talk to, someone who can be there
with him. The three of them wait in the living
room for what to Estelle feels like ours. Zack inquires
if the potential buyers are still coming this afternoon, will
(22:37):
you still be able to sell the house? He asks, No,
I've canceled the appointment. A Stelle responds. His wife's body
is lying lifeless in the next room, growing colder by
the minute. It's all a Stelle can think about. But
Zach wants to know if the house will sell. Maybe
he's in shock, a Stelle tells herself. Zach leans forward,
(23:00):
face in hands. He says, I didn't want to trick
my wife. Stelle pretends not to have heard that. She
gets up and steps outside. She can hear the sirens
that are to her relief, now approaching. The police take
control of the crime scene. They hustle everyone outside and
(23:20):
begin taking statements and document the murder with photographs. Mikayla's
parents arrive in hysterics. A grief councilor speaks with Michaela's parents,
but they're interrupted when the councilor hears laughter at the
murder scene. She turns and is stunned when she sees it.
Zach and his parents.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
They were standing mixed to him at the wall, and
they were laughing.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Zach and his parents are introduced to the grief and
trauma counselor. The family makes it known that they are
children of God and they don't need to speak with anybody.
The grief counselor notes that Zach's eyes are dry. Zach
complains aloud that all this is taking so long. The realtor,
A Stelle, attempts to compassionately explain to him that the
(24:04):
police have to photograph the house from every angle. Oh
so you'll get some photos, just not the ones you wanted,
Zach sarcastically says to an astounded Stelle. Around eleven PM
that night, the police finally let the families back into
(24:24):
the house. Mikayla's mother pulls Zach aside. She wants to
know was Mikaela a Satanist. Zach assures her that her
daughter was not. The police find assassination kits next to
the couple's bed. Each member of EPD has their own kit.
It contains gloves, a ski mask, cable ties, knives, strangling wire,
(24:46):
and a handgun. This discovery alone should have alerted the
detectives that something illegal was going on. People don't typically
have strangling wire in their bedside tables, but for whatever reason,
the police decide to overlook the matching his and hers
assassination kits. Before leaving the murder scene, the trauma counselor
approaches Zach one last time, nearly everyone else is left.
(25:11):
She asks Zach if he has a friend to stay
with or if he's going to stay with his parents.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
And he said, now he's going to sleep there. So
he turned that mattress that was full of bloody, turned
around and he sleeped in the same bed that this
was killed.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Unbelievable, no waybelievable.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
That night, after flipping the mattress, Zach puts a clean
set of sheets on the bed. He lies down next
to the spot where his wife was murdered, and he
falls asleep. Captain Van Vick was stricken when he heard
the news of Michaela's murder. He's the officer who brought
(25:50):
in all the members of EPD but didn't have enough
to convict them. But he did have ample evidence to
apply for a search warrant that would have covered Zack
and McKay's house.
Speaker 7 (26:01):
We started to compile evidence. She admitted the statement to
a prosecutor. We approached him, he told him of the application.
He told us to give him the document and he
needed a few days to apply his mind.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Those few days were a few too many.
Speaker 7 (26:16):
Unfortunately, two days after we gave him the document, we
received the call that Mikaela was Unfortunately, she was murdered.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Hearing this blew my mind. How devastating. This is one
of the critical errors that may have cost the life
of Michaela and the lives of seven others. Unfortunately, for
reasons that defy explanation, the police remained distracted by the
swirl of coincidence and fears of an occult connection. Enter
(26:46):
detectives susc canose.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
The fact was right in front of him, but their
attention was drawn to sensation, and you can't investigate like that.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
After the new use Michaela's murder broke, Ria Grunewald finally
came to terms with the ugly truth she'd been trying
to dodge. Cecilia was in fact capable of mass murder.
She had to be behind it, all, the threats, the bombings,
the murders, everything.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I interviewed Ria, but she at some stage, because obviously
of being very scared of Celia, she ran off and
didn't want to talk to the police anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Meanwhile, with one less member, the walls of EPD came
down just enough to let Luke our infiltrator in for
real this time. But first he needed to be just
as guilty as the rest of them.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
We spoke about killing Ria Joshua.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Joshua will neven know how close he was to the
so many times.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Fortunately for Joshua, Luke wasn't a killer.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
But then one of the witnesses that was part of
the group at some stage that brought him to me
and he was asked to help with this conspiracy of murder,
and that was with Rhea's son.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Detective Susette officially took over the murder investigations, which coincided
perfectly with Luke's plans to turn EPD in. Things were
heating up at Casana Flats and Luke's loyalty to Cecilia
officially became a matter of life or death.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
You know, we're natural time and that course my time.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
On the next episode of Queen Havoc.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
When we went to search the apartment we had Warren,
I went into Cecilia's room. I started asking her some
questions about the Occulton. She couldn't answer me.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I know if they're going to do something now. The
spotlight is on there, and that's why they stopped with
the killings and stuff.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Actually run from my life. I was almost managed Date nine.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult is a production of
Schooly Humans and iHeart Podcasts. Queen Havoc is hosted and
created by me Kurt Kupachick, produced and written by Jennifer Tacchini,
Julia Christgau, and Kurt Kupachick. Lead producer is Julia Chriskau.
Story editor is Saren Burnett. Senior producer is Amelia Brock.
(29:28):
Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell, editing,
sound design and scoring by Jesse Niswanger. Associate producers are
DaShan Moodley and Jamaine Kriher. Additional producing by Ben Mellman,
fact checking by Dennis Webster. Recording engineers are Graham Gibson,
(29:53):
Clay Hillenberg, and Josh Hook. Brind Stein was read by
Angelique Pretorius. Executive producer are Virginia Prescott, LC Crowley, Brandon Barr,
Jennifer Takeiny and Kurt Kupachak. We want to thank all
of those who so generously welcomed us in South Africa
and shared their stories.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
We're incredibly grateful to you all.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
We also want to acknowledge how traumatic these events are
for the victims and their families. Please respect their privacy.
If you or someone you know has been affected by
cult behaviors, there are resources available, including Voices for Dignity,
at Christine Murray dot com.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com