April 3, 2024 • 34 mins
There haven’t always been many representations of queer love in the media for youth to look up to. So they often forge their own path. In this episode, Indigo tells us all about his girlfriend, how he defines love, and what it takes to make a relationship work.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
School of Humans.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This is Queer Chronicles.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
This is my personal and she queen.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Excuse this is Queer Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Oh. One of the questions is a crush. Oh. I
met this girl in the beginning of the month.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
This is Indigo. He's seventeen years old and lives in Alabama,
and as you've already heard, he you've got a crush.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I was planning to reach out because I thought she
was like really cute, and she ended up reaching out
to me first in Uh's been talking ever since and
gotten really really close to each other.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Like sharing the music you love close.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We're trying to see Janelle Money where Dreamersima together because
Dreamrasioma released an album called Princess Forever and she sent
it to me like when we were first talking, and
all of those songs just seem to really apply to us.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
One of the songs they share is called Dumb in Love,
with lyrics like hand me your fears, I can handle them,
I can handle your world and with you, I don't think.
I just jump and it's all because I'm dumb in
love with you.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
So that's been our album and I'm really glad that
we share that musical connection, Like I put my base
for her sometimes and recently she's gotten comfortable enough to
give me like concerts of all the musicals she likes
because she's like a huge the editor. But yeah, I'm
(02:20):
glad I'm getting to know her. And I mean it's
it's so silly and and though it's like really soon,
but I am I love her. I love her.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
From School of Humans, The Outspoken podcast Network, and iHeart Podcasts.
This is Queer Chronicles, a show where queer folks document
their personal lives and experiences in their own words, and
I'm your host, Raquel Willis. This season, a group of
(03:03):
teenagers are sharing their person on growing up as queer,
trans and gender non conforming while living in mostly red States.
And today we're talking all about love.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I see love as an infinite resource. Like it doesn't
take me a long time to know that I love someone.
And it's not like I know a lot of people
have a thing about that, but like, I just feel
like the world would be a lot better if people
had that understanding that you you don't have to reserve
(03:45):
love and kindness and respect just for a select few people.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
When I was growing up, I didn't see a lot
of representations of queer love, not on TV, not on
the radio, not in my real life, and I definitely
didn't see any representations of trans people in life and
being loved. In high school, I remember watching a lot
of the sis straight folks around me pair off with
(04:13):
each other. Back then, I had a feeling that romance
wasn't going to be accessible to me in the same way.
I kind of just assumed that love and relationships would
be harder for me as a queer person, and I
wasn't wrong. Even though I feel like there's more representation
these days, a lot of queer love stories don't have
(04:34):
happy endings, and so much of what we see of
it is filled with yearning and unrequited feelings. So to
start off, I asked Indigo about the first time he
saw a queer couple represented in media.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It was a Hailey Kioko video. It was called Sleepover,
and you know that was like back when I was
a baby gay and I was like looking for scraps,
I tell you scraps. I just thought it was like
a truly beautiful video and song, like, you know, talking
(05:12):
about a really relatable experience. Basically, Hailey Kiyoka is talking
about being in love with her best friend right and
imagining them instead of doing gurly things like painting nails,
combing for these hair that like making out and stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Did you have an experience like that in your life
that you could compare it to.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yes. There was this girl in middle school that I
really liked and we were in PE together. So I
had this early morning zero period PE class and she
was there too. I really liked her, and I told
her that I liked her, and she was like, if
you can come early to class because I was like
(05:57):
always late. So she was like, if you could come
to class early three days in a row, I'll date you.
And I tried so hard, but I was late, like
literally every day. And then she started dating my other
male friend, and that sucked. In this Hailey Kyoka song,
she's like talking about her friend and she can never
(06:22):
like tell her how she feels. But in the chorus
it's like, at least I got you in my head,
And I guess that's how it felt for me, because
you know, we were getting to be really really good friends.
I went over to her house and you know, met
her family, played Minecraft and stuff, got chased by her
(06:43):
snake on the ground and at school, We like sat
at lunch with each other and talked in the mornings
and stuff, and then all of a sudden, like this
dude that she doesn't even know for real, you know,
comes sweeps her up, and all I've left with is,
you know, the way that I wanted to be with
(07:06):
her in my head.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Now, a few years and a few more heartbreaks later,
Indigo is dating someone new and those feelings don't have
to just exist in his hat anymore. I asked him
to tell the story of how he met his long
distance girlfriend, alyssa girl.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
We're telling everybody that we met at grad Bach. Bradbash
is this thing at Universal Studios where the entire part
is rented out for seniors owly, and so I went
to the trip right but we didn't go to grad
Bach on the same days, but it was like really
(07:48):
close and he met soon after. But we actually met
on Hugo. It wasn't app that was big in the pandemic.
It was supposed to be for making friends, but like
people use it as a dating app for kids, and
I was like, oh my god, she's so cute, Like
(08:08):
I'm at her on Instagram because I didn't want to
reach out to her on fucking Yubo of all places,
and I mean I didn't end up reaching out first, surprisingly, like,
I followed her and she commented on one of my
stories and we've been talking ever since, which is surprising
because I'm usually the one pursuing. But since we went
(08:30):
to grab bash at similar times, we just tell everybody
we met there because it's kind of embarrassing that you've
met on Yugo.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
At the time of recording this, they are about two
months into their relationship and I wanted to hear from
Indigo about what he likes about Alyssa. What was it
about her that initially caught his eye and beyond the spark,
what's kept them together?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Oh my god. Okay, So initially I was like attracted
to her because she's like really pretty, she got locks
and stuff like that, and she has like really good
music tastes. But as I got to know her, she's
just like so poetic. I don't even know how to
describe it, Like she writes poetry and she writes in
(09:19):
this really like articulate way feeling, and I like how
she opens up to me and how she talks about herself.
I like that she's so kind to her family. I
really appreciate the way that she cares about other people,
and I like Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
As you can see, Indigo had a lot of things
he liked about Alyssa. But we're gonna have to stop
him here more queer love after the break and we're back.
I asked him to go, how does being in love
(10:01):
actually feel versus what he thought it would fel like
and has had.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I don't feel like scared. I don't feel anxious. You
know that feeling on TV? Right, It's like you want
to throw up when you see them because you're so
nervous and you're just paralyzed in the moment and you
can't even say words right because you like them so much.
(10:33):
It kind of isn't like that. I feel like being
in love with someone is making the conscious choice to
love them and not to put them on a pedestal
and see them as this like big scary person. It's
(10:56):
understanding them. And it would be different if it was
like infatuation, which is what I think a lot of
portrayals of love are in media. I thought that it
would just be like all happy feelings, you know, kisses
and stuff, something kind of really gentle, and uncomplicated people
(11:22):
holding hands in the hallway and you know, kissing occasionally
and talking about anime and watching that together. I didn't
consider anything like problems, differences, trauma and stuff like that.
But I understand now that there are going to be issues,
(11:42):
that there are going to be complications with how people
are compatible with each other based off of things like
the values and how well they deal with bad situations
and trauma and stuff. I was afraid, because you know,
I've been in some very roller coaster line relationships. I
(12:07):
was scared that because it's not like high highs and
very low lows, that I would be like bored and stuff.
But overall it's just been like a warm hug instead
of a bear hug. You know.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
What kind of issues or complications have you and Alyssa
had to work through in your relationship.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean with me being trans and like her introducing
me to her family and stuff, because I mean, she
came out as a lesbian first and now that she's
with me, she's queer. And me and her were talking,
(12:55):
she was like she was worried about you know, her
family invalidating me or like giving her about it and
like basically affirming their beliefs that it was a phase
or that you know, she she's found the right guy
(13:16):
and you know, turn normal or something like that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, well, what was the conversation between you and and
Alyssa around her not identifying as a lesbian anymore and
now identifying as clear. What were those conversations?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Like I was fearful that because I'm pre tea and
that I don't really like pass publicly, that she was
only really attracted to me because you know, that looked
like a girl in the base. But I mean, she
(13:59):
reassured me that like, once I start tea and get
top surgery and stuff like that, that she would like
still love me for who I am, because I was
honest with her that I was a transman, like really
early on in our relationship, and for me because of
dysphoria and stuff like, I still think about, oh well,
(14:22):
once I actually start tea and I start getting hairy
and stinky and stuff like that, like, is that going
to be a problem. Most of those issues, I guess
are still theoretical. But yesterday I had to take an
ID photo for my college right, and I was trying
(14:45):
this trick she told me about, like to use mascara
to kind of like create the look of a mustache,
and when I showed her, it wasn't like the adverse reaction.
I was kind of expecting. I don't know why, because
she's she's always been like really reassuring, but I was
just scared that in that moment she would realize like,
(15:07):
oh shit, this is for real, like that's a man,
and it wasn't like that at all. She thought I
looked very dashing and handsome.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Well, in one of your voice memos, you said that
even though you're trans mask you still feel like you
experience attraction in a very lesbian way. Can you talk
more about that, Like what does it mean to experience
attraction in a lesbian way?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Okay, I don't want to be like generalizing anything, but
I feel like with CIS men, there's like that huge
barrier that you have to get over with being socialized
to be masculine and stuff, and they literally have to
unlearn how to see women as something other than things
(16:01):
that they can control. And I feel like, as a transman,
I don't have to deal with any of those barriers
because I already understand like how it feels like to
be a woman to be objectified and to be seen
as something to control. I guess since I have that experience,
(16:27):
I feel like I'm never going to have a problem
with like understanding their emotions and like disregarding them because
I think they're silly or illogical or something like that.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Will allow Indigo to have his opinions. But I have
to say, as a trans woman who's data trans masculine
folks and sessmen, I've dealt with misogyny and objectification from
both groups. But I will say there does tend to
be more understanding in general from trans masculine folks about
(17:02):
how patriarchy can show up in relationships. And now that
I'm off my gender study soapbox, let's get into how
Indigo's life was unfolding when this new romance popped up.
So Indigo had just graduated from high school and was
heading to college. This was all happening in his home
(17:23):
state of Alabama. He would have preferred to move elsewhere,
especially considering the state's recent restrictions around healthcare for trans youth,
but he got a full ride scholarship and opportunity he
couldn't pass up. Because of that, He's making some major sacrifices.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I've been trying to keep up with the news, and
it's kind of dubious what the court ruling was. As
far as I know, I can't start transitioning medically until
I'm nineteen. And that doesn't mean just surgery. It means
like blockers and actual hormone therapy and stuff like that.
(18:05):
And that really sucks for me because I'm already struggling
with like the fact that I'm going to stop growing
and really soon too, and I'm only like by two.
And I mean, you've seen how people talk about shortening
you feel me and it makes me feel just for it.
And I don't have to be dealing with that until
(18:26):
I'm nineteen if I stay here. And I guess I've
been having to come to terms with that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
And the ghost plan is to eventually transfer schools with
the hope that he'll have a smoother gender transition experience. However,
if he moved, that would add even more miles to
his long distance relationship with Alyssa.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
The reason why I'm trying to transfer is, you know,
because of the quality of the school, of course, but
because this state I'm trying to go to is like
a safe state for trans people, like it won't be
as difficult changing my name, my PIRTH certificate, changing the
marker on my driver's license and my passport, you know,
(19:14):
like I can, I can get those resources easier. But
with that comes the understanding that I will be farther
away from her, and I'm just like I wish I
wish I could take her with me, because like that
that distance is gonna suck. I just I'm not sure
(19:36):
how we're going to handle that, because you know, plane
rides are expensive. Then I'm going to be up in
the cold, you know, and she doesn't like the cold.
But you know, she's she's been really supportive about it,
and I guess there's still that worry about like too
(19:59):
much of a distance becoming a barrier in our relationship.
And I just I wish I did have to put
that barrier there, just to be who I am, you know.
I wish I could transition easier here, feel more comfortable
in my own body here where I'm like at least
(20:21):
only six hours away from her. But that's just not
the case, and I don't see it being the case
even in the future, Like legislation is getting worse in
neighboring states, and I'm just fearful that Alabama is going
to follow suit, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
So looking to the future, how do you hope that
your relationship with Alissa evolves?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I mean in the near future, I hope that I
can see her, you know, because I mean, like, we
we haven't met each other yet, but it's like missing
someone you never met. Is kind of a really weird feeling.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Since y'all have been long this since what were the
things that you did to kind of build that infamacy?
Since y'all haven't met in person yet.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I feel silly kind of describing it. But we do
things like watch what's social called The Queer Ultimatum. We
watch things like Atlanta and little silly romcom movies, and
we like talk shit about the you know, horrible acting
and stuff. Or you know, we'll play video games like
(21:47):
Minecraft and stuff and like build houses in like that
cherry biome that she likes, because you know, she likes
pink and stuff. A big part of our relationship is
like our taste in use and making playlists together or
(22:08):
send each other's songs that you know reminds us of
each other, and share poetry or journal entries that we
have on our phones with each other.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
That last one journal entries on their phones really stood
out to me, and it sounds kind of familiar to
what we're doing on the show. While they can't be
together in person, in the Go and A Lissa write
memos back and forth to each other. So we decided
(22:40):
to try a little experiment. We gave them a list
of questions to ask each other over voice memos, and
they agreed to give us a peek into their relationship
through their answers.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
You've just made me become so much more comfortable with
myself and with expressing love and receiving love. And I'm
really appreciative of that.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Me Alessa. You'll hear what she and Indigo asked each
other and their responses after the break.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
What was the first thing that you noticed about me?
What was something you initially liked about me that made
you want to keep talking to me?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I'll say, the first thing I noticed about you was
you were like super fucking beautiful, Like I was just
I saw you and I was like, oh my god,
Like she is so out of my league. But she
has such good music tastes, and I think the music
(24:03):
taste and like the things that I knew you liked.
You know, are would compelled me to keep talking to
you because we shared a lot in comments, and I
really appreciate that because music is like a huge part
of my life.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Oh you're so sweet.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
I don't know why you keep saying I'm out of
your leak, though, because I don't think that's true at all,
and I'd literally keep telling you this for me though.
The first thing I noticed about you was definitely your hair.
It's just so cool and vibrant and blue isn't typically
(24:43):
a hair color that you see on boys because most
of them can't even pull it off that you pull
it off perfectly, and it's just very attractive. And definitely
your name. I love your name so much. I've never
met anybody named Indigo before, so that was just really
cool to me. And you always seemed interested in everything
(25:06):
that I had to say, and I really appreciated that
because I'm not used to people actually listening to me
all the time, so it made me feel really happy
that you're actually interested in what I had to say.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I appreciate everything you have to say because you're so passionate,
like about a lot of things You're so creative and
you know, expressive and stuff like that, and I just
really admire that about you, like you care about things,
you want to make an impact, and I just I
(25:47):
really appreciate that you're the type of person to just
feel driven to do something. I just I can't wait
to see you grow even more.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Kind of like smiling.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I don't know if you can hear it in my voice,
but yeah, when did you first know that you really
liked me? How did you know? And what did it
feel like for you?
Speaker 4 (26:19):
It was really when you were talking about what love
meant to you and how there's no time limit on love.
Because when we were talking, I was scared that I
was falling too fast or that you'd end up hurting
me in some way. But when I embraced it and
(26:40):
stopped getting into my head so much, it felt really
sweet and really calm. I didn't feel like anxious, nervous butterflies.
You've just made me become so much more comfortable with
myself and with expressing love and receiving love, and I'm
(27:01):
really appreciative of that. I remember knowing that I liked
you really really early on, and it just it felt right.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It felt good to love you. I just felt like
I could be meet with you, and I feel like
that's so important to having a partner. I just I
don't know. I just I just knew from the get
go that I wanted to spend as long as I
(27:40):
could with you, love you for as long as I can.
It makes me really happy whenever you say that I'm
easy to love because I always consider myself a burden,
But every day you're always consistent and you show me
that I'm not a burden and I'm not somebody that's
(28:01):
hard to love. And I'm really thankful for that, because
every that you love me helps me love myself more
and I loving you.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
So much for that.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, I'm gated about you.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I'm gated bat you.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
What does love mean to you?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
And what does it mean to love someone?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I think it means choosing to make the effort every
day to talk to them, to love them, to sort
out your problems, to love them despite their flaws, shit
like that. It's a labor of love and you're doing
this because you want to. And even if you have problems,
(28:48):
it's not like you're dreading talking about them with the
other person.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Y'all have the wherewithal to talk about those things and
not judge each other for how the other feels. I
completely agree with every thing he said, and that's what
I love so much about us, because we're always on
the same page. But for me, what it means to
love someone is just choosing that person every day and
(29:15):
continuing to choose that person. Relationships aren't perfect at all,
but just the fact that we can communicate and talk
out our problems and how we feel and realize ways
that we can be a better partner to each other.
Stuff like that I really appreciate and it's what makes
me fall in love with you every day. Oh babe,
(29:40):
I'm so lucked in for real, Like we basically kind
of said the same thing, but I'm really glad that
we're on the same page anyways, Love you bye.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Hearing Indigo and Alyssa share their love this way feel
so vulnerable. It's the kind of love that all teenagers
deserve to feel, and to feel openly without fear. The
way they talk about their feelings for each other and
how they acknowledge the challenges that come along with that
kind of connection feel so grounded and thoughtful. In the
(30:18):
Go and Alyssa's relationship began with music, so it's only
fitting that this episode ends with it too.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
What resonates most with you from our album? What lyrics
feel like they applied to us?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Honestly, every single lyrics from every single song on that album,
But the ones that apply to us the most is
in the song dumb in Love with You, when he
says hand me your fears, I can handle them, I
can handle your world. Get ahead, And I feel like
(31:04):
that really plased us because with all my insecurities and
the stuff I have anxiety about, in all of my fears,
You're just so willing to help me through them and
reassure me and make me feel better about myself. And
I love being able to do that for you too,
because I never want you to feel like you're not
(31:25):
enough for like I don't love you, just.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I knew that she would choose dumb in Love with
You because that's your favorite song off the album Stars
and Venus Versus Mars.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Is obviously mine, but you know, I just I just
know we liked it like this.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Oh my god, they can't see me, they can't see me,
but I'm crossing my fingers right now.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
We tight like that, We tight like that.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Indegol sent one other voice memo to Alyssa about another
song he loves from that dreamer. It'sioma album called Stars,
but this time he felt it so much he just
started singing it to her.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Switching Webbie, kissing baby. This is more than physical, spiritual.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
God told me too.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Out for miricals. Oh my God, let me stop before
I get cheese. Easing new steps before I get cheesy, Jess.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Queer Chronicles is a production of School of Humans, The
Outspoken podcast Network, and iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host Raquel Willis.
You can find a list of resources in the show notes,
including trans Lifeline and the Trevor Project. This show was
written by Jordan Bailey, Etalise Perez, Aaron Edwards, and me.
(32:53):
Our story editors are Aaron Edwards and Julia Furlan, Produced
by Jordan Bailey, Julia for Lan and Etalise Perez. Our
senior producer is Amelia Brock, directed by Etalis Perez, sound
design and mixed by mv al Rahim. Theme song composed
(33:14):
by Jesse Niswanger. Stars and Dumb in Love with You
were written and composed by Dreamer en Ja, jaye Ewerabon
and Saint Louis and are available to stream everywhere. Performed
by Dreamer Eciama Publishing by Saint Louis and Downtown Music
Publishing on behalf of Dreamer Eciama Publishing. Master's courtesy of
(33:40):
A Wall Recordings America, Inc. Casting by Jordan Bailey and
Julia Farlan, fact checking by Savannah Hughgley. Our production manager
is Daisy Church. Executive producers include Jay Brunson and Me
from The Outspoken Podcast Network, Michael Alder June and Noel
(34:01):
Brown from iHeart Podcasts, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Vah and Elsie
Crowley from School of Humans and The Cats Company. Special
thanks to Alyssa. If you're enjoying the show, please share
it with friends and family, and don't forget to rate
and review in your favorite podcast app. Tune in again
(34:23):
next week
School of Humans.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This is Queer Chronicles.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
This is my personal and she queen.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Excuse this is Queer Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Oh. One of the questions is a crush. Oh. I
met this girl in the beginning of the month.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
This is Indigo. He's seventeen years old and lives in Alabama,
and as you've already heard, he you've got a crush.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I was planning to reach out because I thought she
was like really cute, and she ended up reaching out
to me first in Uh's been talking ever since and
gotten really really close to each other.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Like sharing the music you love close.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We're trying to see Janelle Money where Dreamersima together because
Dreamrasioma released an album called Princess Forever and she sent
it to me like when we were first talking, and
all of those songs just seem to really apply to us.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
One of the songs they share is called Dumb in Love,
with lyrics like hand me your fears, I can handle them,
I can handle your world and with you, I don't think.
I just jump and it's all because I'm dumb in
love with you.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
So that's been our album and I'm really glad that
we share that musical connection, Like I put my base
for her sometimes and recently she's gotten comfortable enough to
give me like concerts of all the musicals she likes
because she's like a huge the editor. But yeah, I'm
(02:20):
glad I'm getting to know her. And I mean it's
it's so silly and and though it's like really soon,
but I am I love her. I love her.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
From School of Humans, The Outspoken podcast Network, and iHeart Podcasts.
This is Queer Chronicles, a show where queer folks document
their personal lives and experiences in their own words, and
I'm your host, Raquel Willis. This season, a group of
(03:03):
teenagers are sharing their person on growing up as queer,
trans and gender non conforming while living in mostly red States.
And today we're talking all about love.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I see love as an infinite resource. Like it doesn't
take me a long time to know that I love someone.
And it's not like I know a lot of people
have a thing about that, but like, I just feel
like the world would be a lot better if people
had that understanding that you you don't have to reserve
(03:45):
love and kindness and respect just for a select few people.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
When I was growing up, I didn't see a lot
of representations of queer love, not on TV, not on
the radio, not in my real life, and I definitely
didn't see any representations of trans people in life and
being loved. In high school, I remember watching a lot
of the sis straight folks around me pair off with
(04:13):
each other. Back then, I had a feeling that romance
wasn't going to be accessible to me in the same way.
I kind of just assumed that love and relationships would
be harder for me as a queer person, and I
wasn't wrong. Even though I feel like there's more representation
these days, a lot of queer love stories don't have
(04:34):
happy endings, and so much of what we see of
it is filled with yearning and unrequited feelings. So to
start off, I asked Indigo about the first time he
saw a queer couple represented in media.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It was a Hailey Kioko video. It was called Sleepover,
and you know that was like back when I was
a baby gay and I was like looking for scraps,
I tell you scraps. I just thought it was like
a truly beautiful video and song, like, you know, talking
(05:12):
about a really relatable experience. Basically, Hailey Kiyoka is talking
about being in love with her best friend right and
imagining them instead of doing gurly things like painting nails,
combing for these hair that like making out and stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Did you have an experience like that in your life
that you could compare it to.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yes. There was this girl in middle school that I
really liked and we were in PE together. So I
had this early morning zero period PE class and she
was there too. I really liked her, and I told
her that I liked her, and she was like, if
you can come early to class because I was like
(05:57):
always late. So she was like, if you could come
to class early three days in a row, I'll date you.
And I tried so hard, but I was late, like
literally every day. And then she started dating my other
male friend, and that sucked. In this Hailey Kyoka song,
she's like talking about her friend and she can never
(06:22):
like tell her how she feels. But in the chorus
it's like, at least I got you in my head,
And I guess that's how it felt for me, because
you know, we were getting to be really really good friends.
I went over to her house and you know, met
her family, played Minecraft and stuff, got chased by her
(06:43):
snake on the ground and at school, We like sat
at lunch with each other and talked in the mornings
and stuff, and then all of a sudden, like this
dude that she doesn't even know for real, you know,
comes sweeps her up, and all I've left with is,
you know, the way that I wanted to be with
(07:06):
her in my head.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Now, a few years and a few more heartbreaks later,
Indigo is dating someone new and those feelings don't have
to just exist in his hat anymore. I asked him
to tell the story of how he met his long
distance girlfriend, alyssa girl.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
We're telling everybody that we met at grad Bach. Bradbash
is this thing at Universal Studios where the entire part
is rented out for seniors owly, and so I went
to the trip right but we didn't go to grad
Bach on the same days, but it was like really
(07:48):
close and he met soon after. But we actually met
on Hugo. It wasn't app that was big in the pandemic.
It was supposed to be for making friends, but like
people use it as a dating app for kids, and
I was like, oh my god, she's so cute, Like
(08:08):
I'm at her on Instagram because I didn't want to
reach out to her on fucking Yubo of all places,
and I mean I didn't end up reaching out first, surprisingly, like,
I followed her and she commented on one of my
stories and we've been talking ever since, which is surprising
because I'm usually the one pursuing. But since we went
(08:30):
to grab bash at similar times, we just tell everybody
we met there because it's kind of embarrassing that you've
met on Yugo.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
At the time of recording this, they are about two
months into their relationship and I wanted to hear from
Indigo about what he likes about Alyssa. What was it
about her that initially caught his eye and beyond the spark,
what's kept them together?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Oh my god. Okay, So initially I was like attracted
to her because she's like really pretty, she got locks
and stuff like that, and she has like really good
music tastes. But as I got to know her, she's
just like so poetic. I don't even know how to
describe it, Like she writes poetry and she writes in
(09:19):
this really like articulate way feeling, and I like how
she opens up to me and how she talks about herself.
I like that she's so kind to her family. I
really appreciate the way that she cares about other people,
and I like Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
As you can see, Indigo had a lot of things
he liked about Alyssa. But we're gonna have to stop
him here more queer love after the break and we're back.
I asked him to go, how does being in love
(10:01):
actually feel versus what he thought it would fel like
and has had.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I don't feel like scared. I don't feel anxious. You
know that feeling on TV? Right, It's like you want
to throw up when you see them because you're so
nervous and you're just paralyzed in the moment and you
can't even say words right because you like them so much.
(10:33):
It kind of isn't like that. I feel like being
in love with someone is making the conscious choice to
love them and not to put them on a pedestal
and see them as this like big scary person. It's
(10:56):
understanding them. And it would be different if it was
like infatuation, which is what I think a lot of
portrayals of love are in media. I thought that it
would just be like all happy feelings, you know, kisses
and stuff, something kind of really gentle, and uncomplicated people
(11:22):
holding hands in the hallway and you know, kissing occasionally
and talking about anime and watching that together. I didn't
consider anything like problems, differences, trauma and stuff like that.
But I understand now that there are going to be issues,
(11:42):
that there are going to be complications with how people
are compatible with each other based off of things like
the values and how well they deal with bad situations
and trauma and stuff. I was afraid, because you know,
I've been in some very roller coaster line relationships. I
(12:07):
was scared that because it's not like high highs and
very low lows, that I would be like bored and stuff.
But overall it's just been like a warm hug instead
of a bear hug. You know.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
What kind of issues or complications have you and Alyssa
had to work through in your relationship.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean with me being trans and like her introducing
me to her family and stuff, because I mean, she
came out as a lesbian first and now that she's
with me, she's queer. And me and her were talking,
(12:55):
she was like she was worried about you know, her
family invalidating me or like giving her about it and
like basically affirming their beliefs that it was a phase
or that you know, she she's found the right guy
(13:16):
and you know, turn normal or something like that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, well, what was the conversation between you and and
Alyssa around her not identifying as a lesbian anymore and
now identifying as clear. What were those conversations?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Like I was fearful that because I'm pre tea and
that I don't really like pass publicly, that she was
only really attracted to me because you know, that looked
like a girl in the base. But I mean, she
(13:59):
reassured me that like, once I start tea and get
top surgery and stuff like that, that she would like
still love me for who I am, because I was
honest with her that I was a transman, like really
early on in our relationship, and for me because of
dysphoria and stuff like, I still think about, oh well,
(14:22):
once I actually start tea and I start getting hairy
and stinky and stuff like that, like, is that going
to be a problem. Most of those issues, I guess
are still theoretical. But yesterday I had to take an
ID photo for my college right, and I was trying
(14:45):
this trick she told me about, like to use mascara
to kind of like create the look of a mustache,
and when I showed her, it wasn't like the adverse reaction.
I was kind of expecting. I don't know why, because
she's she's always been like really reassuring, but I was
just scared that in that moment she would realize like,
(15:07):
oh shit, this is for real, like that's a man,
and it wasn't like that at all. She thought I
looked very dashing and handsome.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Well, in one of your voice memos, you said that
even though you're trans mask you still feel like you
experience attraction in a very lesbian way. Can you talk
more about that, Like what does it mean to experience
attraction in a lesbian way?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Okay, I don't want to be like generalizing anything, but
I feel like with CIS men, there's like that huge
barrier that you have to get over with being socialized
to be masculine and stuff, and they literally have to
unlearn how to see women as something other than things
(16:01):
that they can control. And I feel like, as a transman,
I don't have to deal with any of those barriers
because I already understand like how it feels like to
be a woman to be objectified and to be seen
as something to control. I guess since I have that experience,
(16:27):
I feel like I'm never going to have a problem
with like understanding their emotions and like disregarding them because
I think they're silly or illogical or something like that.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Will allow Indigo to have his opinions. But I have
to say, as a trans woman who's data trans masculine
folks and sessmen, I've dealt with misogyny and objectification from
both groups. But I will say there does tend to
be more understanding in general from trans masculine folks about
(17:02):
how patriarchy can show up in relationships. And now that
I'm off my gender study soapbox, let's get into how
Indigo's life was unfolding when this new romance popped up.
So Indigo had just graduated from high school and was
heading to college. This was all happening in his home
(17:23):
state of Alabama. He would have preferred to move elsewhere,
especially considering the state's recent restrictions around healthcare for trans youth,
but he got a full ride scholarship and opportunity he
couldn't pass up. Because of that, He's making some major sacrifices.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I've been trying to keep up with the news, and
it's kind of dubious what the court ruling was. As
far as I know, I can't start transitioning medically until
I'm nineteen. And that doesn't mean just surgery. It means
like blockers and actual hormone therapy and stuff like that.
(18:05):
And that really sucks for me because I'm already struggling
with like the fact that I'm going to stop growing
and really soon too, and I'm only like by two.
And I mean, you've seen how people talk about shortening
you feel me and it makes me feel just for it.
And I don't have to be dealing with that until
(18:26):
I'm nineteen if I stay here. And I guess I've
been having to come to terms with that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
And the ghost plan is to eventually transfer schools with
the hope that he'll have a smoother gender transition experience. However,
if he moved, that would add even more miles to
his long distance relationship with Alyssa.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
The reason why I'm trying to transfer is, you know,
because of the quality of the school, of course, but
because this state I'm trying to go to is like
a safe state for trans people, like it won't be
as difficult changing my name, my PIRTH certificate, changing the
marker on my driver's license and my passport, you know,
(19:14):
like I can, I can get those resources easier. But
with that comes the understanding that I will be farther
away from her, and I'm just like I wish I
wish I could take her with me, because like that
that distance is gonna suck. I just I'm not sure
(19:36):
how we're going to handle that, because you know, plane
rides are expensive. Then I'm going to be up in
the cold, you know, and she doesn't like the cold.
But you know, she's she's been really supportive about it,
and I guess there's still that worry about like too
(19:59):
much of a distance becoming a barrier in our relationship.
And I just I wish I did have to put
that barrier there, just to be who I am, you know.
I wish I could transition easier here, feel more comfortable
in my own body here where I'm like at least
(20:21):
only six hours away from her. But that's just not
the case, and I don't see it being the case
even in the future, Like legislation is getting worse in
neighboring states, and I'm just fearful that Alabama is going
to follow suit, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
So looking to the future, how do you hope that
your relationship with Alissa evolves?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I mean in the near future, I hope that I
can see her, you know, because I mean, like, we
we haven't met each other yet, but it's like missing
someone you never met. Is kind of a really weird feeling.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Since y'all have been long this since what were the
things that you did to kind of build that infamacy?
Since y'all haven't met in person yet.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I feel silly kind of describing it. But we do
things like watch what's social called The Queer Ultimatum. We
watch things like Atlanta and little silly romcom movies, and
we like talk shit about the you know, horrible acting
and stuff. Or you know, we'll play video games like
(21:47):
Minecraft and stuff and like build houses in like that
cherry biome that she likes, because you know, she likes
pink and stuff. A big part of our relationship is
like our taste in use and making playlists together or
(22:08):
send each other's songs that you know reminds us of
each other, and share poetry or journal entries that we
have on our phones with each other.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
That last one journal entries on their phones really stood
out to me, and it sounds kind of familiar to
what we're doing on the show. While they can't be
together in person, in the Go and A Lissa write
memos back and forth to each other. So we decided
(22:40):
to try a little experiment. We gave them a list
of questions to ask each other over voice memos, and
they agreed to give us a peek into their relationship
through their answers.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
You've just made me become so much more comfortable with
myself and with expressing love and receiving love. And I'm
really appreciative of that.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Me Alessa. You'll hear what she and Indigo asked each
other and their responses after the break.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
What was the first thing that you noticed about me?
What was something you initially liked about me that made
you want to keep talking to me?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I'll say, the first thing I noticed about you was
you were like super fucking beautiful, Like I was just
I saw you and I was like, oh my god,
Like she is so out of my league. But she
has such good music tastes, and I think the music
(24:03):
taste and like the things that I knew you liked.
You know, are would compelled me to keep talking to
you because we shared a lot in comments, and I
really appreciate that because music is like a huge part
of my life.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Oh you're so sweet.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
I don't know why you keep saying I'm out of
your leak, though, because I don't think that's true at all,
and I'd literally keep telling you this for me though.
The first thing I noticed about you was definitely your hair.
It's just so cool and vibrant and blue isn't typically
(24:43):
a hair color that you see on boys because most
of them can't even pull it off that you pull
it off perfectly, and it's just very attractive. And definitely
your name. I love your name so much. I've never
met anybody named Indigo before, so that was just really
cool to me. And you always seemed interested in everything
(25:06):
that I had to say, and I really appreciated that
because I'm not used to people actually listening to me
all the time, so it made me feel really happy
that you're actually interested in what I had to say.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I appreciate everything you have to say because you're so passionate,
like about a lot of things You're so creative and
you know, expressive and stuff like that, and I just
really admire that about you, like you care about things,
you want to make an impact, and I just I
(25:47):
really appreciate that you're the type of person to just
feel driven to do something. I just I can't wait
to see you grow even more.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Kind of like smiling.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I don't know if you can hear it in my voice,
but yeah, when did you first know that you really
liked me? How did you know? And what did it
feel like for you?
Speaker 4 (26:19):
It was really when you were talking about what love
meant to you and how there's no time limit on love.
Because when we were talking, I was scared that I
was falling too fast or that you'd end up hurting
me in some way. But when I embraced it and
(26:40):
stopped getting into my head so much, it felt really
sweet and really calm. I didn't feel like anxious, nervous butterflies.
You've just made me become so much more comfortable with
myself and with expressing love and receiving love, and I'm
(27:01):
really appreciative of that. I remember knowing that I liked
you really really early on, and it just it felt right.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It felt good to love you. I just felt like
I could be meet with you, and I feel like
that's so important to having a partner. I just I
don't know. I just I just knew from the get
go that I wanted to spend as long as I
(27:40):
could with you, love you for as long as I can.
It makes me really happy whenever you say that I'm
easy to love because I always consider myself a burden,
But every day you're always consistent and you show me
that I'm not a burden and I'm not somebody that's
(28:01):
hard to love. And I'm really thankful for that, because
every that you love me helps me love myself more
and I loving you.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
So much for that.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, I'm gated about you.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I'm gated bat you.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
What does love mean to you?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
And what does it mean to love someone?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I think it means choosing to make the effort every
day to talk to them, to love them, to sort
out your problems, to love them despite their flaws, shit
like that. It's a labor of love and you're doing
this because you want to. And even if you have problems,
(28:48):
it's not like you're dreading talking about them with the
other person.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Y'all have the wherewithal to talk about those things and
not judge each other for how the other feels. I
completely agree with every thing he said, and that's what
I love so much about us, because we're always on
the same page. But for me, what it means to
love someone is just choosing that person every day and
(29:15):
continuing to choose that person. Relationships aren't perfect at all,
but just the fact that we can communicate and talk
out our problems and how we feel and realize ways
that we can be a better partner to each other.
Stuff like that I really appreciate and it's what makes
me fall in love with you every day. Oh babe,
(29:40):
I'm so lucked in for real, Like we basically kind
of said the same thing, but I'm really glad that
we're on the same page anyways, Love you bye.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Hearing Indigo and Alyssa share their love this way feel
so vulnerable. It's the kind of love that all teenagers
deserve to feel, and to feel openly without fear. The
way they talk about their feelings for each other and
how they acknowledge the challenges that come along with that
kind of connection feel so grounded and thoughtful. In the
(30:18):
Go and Alyssa's relationship began with music, so it's only
fitting that this episode ends with it too.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
What resonates most with you from our album? What lyrics
feel like they applied to us?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Honestly, every single lyrics from every single song on that album,
But the ones that apply to us the most is
in the song dumb in Love with You, when he
says hand me your fears, I can handle them, I
can handle your world. Get ahead, And I feel like
(31:04):
that really plased us because with all my insecurities and
the stuff I have anxiety about, in all of my fears,
You're just so willing to help me through them and
reassure me and make me feel better about myself. And
I love being able to do that for you too,
because I never want you to feel like you're not
(31:25):
enough for like I don't love you, just.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I knew that she would choose dumb in Love with
You because that's your favorite song off the album Stars
and Venus Versus Mars.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Is obviously mine, but you know, I just I just
know we liked it like this.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Oh my god, they can't see me, they can't see me,
but I'm crossing my fingers right now.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
We tight like that, We tight like that.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Indegol sent one other voice memo to Alyssa about another
song he loves from that dreamer. It'sioma album called Stars,
but this time he felt it so much he just
started singing it to her.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Switching Webbie, kissing baby. This is more than physical, spiritual.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
God told me too.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Out for miricals. Oh my God, let me stop before
I get cheese. Easing new steps before I get cheesy, Jess.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Queer Chronicles is a production of School of Humans, The
Outspoken podcast Network, and iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host Raquel Willis.
You can find a list of resources in the show notes,
including trans Lifeline and the Trevor Project. This show was
written by Jordan Bailey, Etalise Perez, Aaron Edwards, and me.
(32:53):
Our story editors are Aaron Edwards and Julia Furlan, Produced
by Jordan Bailey, Julia for Lan and Etalise Perez. Our
senior producer is Amelia Brock, directed by Etalis Perez, sound
design and mixed by mv al Rahim. Theme song composed
(33:14):
by Jesse Niswanger. Stars and Dumb in Love with You
were written and composed by Dreamer en Ja, jaye Ewerabon
and Saint Louis and are available to stream everywhere. Performed
by Dreamer Eciama Publishing by Saint Louis and Downtown Music
Publishing on behalf of Dreamer Eciama Publishing. Master's courtesy of
(33:40):
A Wall Recordings America, Inc. Casting by Jordan Bailey and
Julia Farlan, fact checking by Savannah Hughgley. Our production manager
is Daisy Church. Executive producers include Jay Brunson and Me
from The Outspoken Podcast Network, Michael Alder June and Noel
(34:01):
Brown from iHeart Podcasts, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Vah and Elsie
Crowley from School of Humans and The Cats Company. Special
thanks to Alyssa. If you're enjoying the show, please share
it with friends and family, and don't forget to rate
and review in your favorite podcast app. Tune in again
(34:23):
next week
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