April 17, 2024 • 27 mins
As we near the end of this season of Queer Chronicles, we brought our teens together to have an open conversation about coming into their identities, experiences at school, and their reactions to the politics (and politicians) impacting their lives. Hear as, for the first time on the show, Connor, Daniel, Safara, It and Libby connect directly with each other.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
School of Humans.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This is Queer Chronicles.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
This is my personal intry queen. This is Queer Chronicles.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
We've had such an incredible journey getting to know the
stars that is the teens we followed on this season
of Queer Chronicles. They really tapped into authenticity and vulnerability.
We've heard about their experiences with hormone replacement therapy.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
I always feel more comfortable when I'm testosterone, and I
don't really know how to explain it other than it
feels like magic to me.
Speaker 6 (00:58):
You know.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
We've explored how ballroom culture provides a safe haven for
self expression, and we've even heard about their connection to romance.
Speaker 7 (01:16):
I just feel like I could be meet with you,
and I feel like that's so important to having a party.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Their stories deserve this kind of space, and I feel
so honored that they share them with us. We thought
a lot about how to end a season like this,
and we figured maybe the best way to close this
chapter is to just hear from them, unfiltered.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Open and in conversation with each other.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
I'm Raquel Willis from School of Humans, The Outspoken Podcast Network,
and iHeart Podcasts. This is Queer Chronicles, a show where
queer folks document their personal lives and experiences.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
In their own words.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
This season, we spoke with a group of teens in
battleground states across the country, and for our last episode,
we brought our group together to just chat about their
hopes for the future, how they're thinking about what's going
on in the country at large, what movies they're watching.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
And more.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Absolutely nothing was off the table. It was pretty special.
Some of them had never seen each other during the
course of this project, but when everyone got on the call,
it was like watching a first day of school and
a five year reunion at the same time. We had
(02:53):
Daniel from Arizona.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Wait, I just want to say I don't think we've
ever met in person before or life on zoom.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
That's not in person. But I love your haircut so cool.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Connor from Tennis.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, the hair is awesome.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It also from Arizona.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I actually just got a haircut professionally for the first
time since I was fourteen a few weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
So Libby from Texas. Here, she's telling the group which
fictional character she'd most like to be friends with.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It would be Marcelene from Adventure Time. She's pretty cool
and she's kind of a gay icon.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
And Safara, who recently started her undergraduate studies at.
Speaker 8 (03:37):
Harvard, I'm like rewatching the show, like literally like an
hour guys rewatching it, and Marcelene is really that girl,
So you ate that.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
We started off the conversation with a bit of a
full circle moment. Our first episode this season was all
about self expression, so we asked everyone about recent moments
where they felt affirmed in their identities or when they've
had to grapple with the communities around them witnessing their
(04:09):
growth as young people.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
M my one friend from school who's also a trans guy.
Every time we do something that's like if you were
to watch.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
A movie about a group of teenage boys.
Speaker 6 (04:23):
And we did something like that, then we'd be like, dude,
that's so boy, that's so boy of us. One of
my friends mentioned Korn, like the band. Me and my
other friend were just like, that was so boy. We
love Korn and it's so dumb, but it's like so
fun too.
Speaker 9 (04:36):
I feel like the same thing, like in some cases
can be so boy and so girl at the same time.
Just depends on your interpretation exactly.
Speaker 8 (04:44):
Sometimes depending on like I don't know, the contact, so
sometimes things are just so gender and I literally, I
literally am like, that is so gender you like, I
don't know, like example would be like Harry's styles or
like something like just some type of like that is
so gender.
Speaker 10 (05:01):
Like.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I love that you're doing that.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Shout out to the Zoomers for keeping us on our toes.
So when it comes to language, I'm adding that cell
gender to my personal dictionary. But aside from dropping new slang,
our teens share more about their gender affirming moments, like
Connor's vocal change of I've been.
Speaker 9 (05:24):
On disasterone since April.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I don't know, I haven't been counting. I probably should
do that.
Speaker 9 (05:31):
And I also have my name legally change, which happened recently,
and I just started my junior year of high school
and my school hasn't changed my name in any of
the systems, so I still get called my dead name,
and without it being in my records. A lot of
my teachers will say I'm not gonna call you that,
(05:54):
which is rough, but it's also kind of funny because
I pretty much have like a mustache and my voice
is deeper than like my cis male voice teachers, so
they're just calling me this girly name, and I'm like,
I'll say here, but like look me in my eyes
(06:15):
and tell me that's what you believe. Like I like
I passed to the point where they look dumb, and
I'm like, there is nothing I can do to stop you.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
But one of us looks dumb in this situation, and
it's not me.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I haven't heard your voice since like right after you
started testosterone, and it's like.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, it's I.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Like you turn on your mike and I was like.
Speaker 9 (06:36):
Oh yeah, I think I've gone down. Like my lowest
singing note gone down six notes.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
That's awesome. My gender throwing moment of like the last
week or so.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
Was basically I'm in like this organization and like we're
planning this trans centered conference at Harvard, and I was
talking with Lee and they do like black abolition work
while being like a trans person, and I do like
(07:17):
trans centered activist work while being like a black person,
and like more.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Like two sides of like the same coin.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
And it was just like I was literally like smiling
like ear to ear, just like oh my god, like
I actually have like someone that like understands me, and
like that's so amazing that like I actually get to
have that like connection and to have someone like right
there next to me, like I can like walk twenty
steps and go to their like dorm and like that's
(07:45):
just like so exciting for me, Like I don't know,
it's literally like amazing. So I love that, Like I
get to like some in the next like four years
with them.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I hate to butt into safar as Joy, But don't worry,
She'll have even more for us after the break, so
I know, I said.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
We talk more about Joy.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
But we had to ask our teens directly about the
political crisis their generation is facing in this moment.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So we went there and.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Played them a clip of one of the most infamous
anti transators in the game right now, Texas Governor Greg Abbott.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
A person under the age of eighteen.
Speaker 11 (08:37):
They don't have the mental capacity to make a life
changing decision.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
We asked our teens their thoughts on what it feels
like for him to talk about them without actually knowing them.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Okay, I'll start, He's so stupid. I just I.
Speaker 8 (08:56):
Hate him because very ironically, I am going to the
private pre trial court hearing tomorrow with transgender education at
Work Texas, which is where I work part time. And
they just have like the dumbest people be like their
key witnesses talking about like the most stupid like pseudoscience.
(09:19):
And I hate all of I hate all of it,
and I'm going to go back tomorrow and continue hating
all of it.
Speaker 9 (09:27):
As a government official, you absolutely have better things to
be doing, like one hundred percent, one hundred percent. You
want to talk about gun control or the lack thereof, Sure,
that's a topic that like actually makes sense to be
talking about. You want to talk about anything with the economy,
(09:48):
Sure that makes sense to be talking about. You want
to talk about the military, you want to talk about
the roads, you want to talk about education.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That's your job.
Speaker 9 (09:57):
Your job is not to say I don't want you
wearing a dress.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
That is not your job.
Speaker 9 (10:03):
That is not what you were given that position to do.
And like, frankly, why do you care? Why do you care?
No one's putting you in a dress, no one's putting
your wife in a suit, Like it's just it's okay.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
It's like like a firing rage group in me is
like how do you know that? And the biggest frustration
for me is like you were a teenager wants to
and the fact that you can't see that you I'm
sure you felt similar ways of like I feel like
I'm not being treated like a person. I feel like
I'm not being taken seriously. And yes, there are things
(10:42):
that I don't know, and there are things that I'm
going to learn, and I'm looking forward to that in
the future, to learn things about life and about living
and existence. But how am I supposed to do that
if I can't live to get to that point?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
How am I supposed to learn and.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Like understand more if I can't even feel comfortable being
who I am?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Along with Abbott, we also talked about how teachers, people
who these teenagers spend a lot of time with, are
being pitted against them. Florida Governor Ron de Santis, for instance,
has been talking about banning educators from encouraging and using
students chosen pronouns. Here's a rather unfortunate clip.
Speaker 11 (11:34):
We've also led the way, and I always been right
there with us, and recently has done a lot on
this of eliminating gender ideology in our schools. It is
wrong for a teacher to be telling a young student
that they may have been born in the wrong body,
or that their gender is a choice.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And our teens had some words.
Speaker 8 (11:56):
Like I'm sorry, but like the like pronoun like what
are your pronouns? Like introduction on the first day of school,
Like that's not changing anyone's any there's no ideology being
pushed when like teachers have like that like intro or
they're like, hi, I miss whatever and I use her
pronouns like and it's.
Speaker 9 (12:14):
Like one in fifty teachers that do that anyway, if
you're lucky.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
And when they do, there's always the guy that's like,
my pronouns are USA, and it's like that guy.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
That says I don't have pronouns.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I'm a man, Like that guy is more common than.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
A teacher that asks your pronouns.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
This happened to me like for the first time last year.
My teacher she has a non binary kid and a
bisexual daughter, and so I feel like she understands and
like is pretty good about that. And my other teacher
is married to a non binary person, so I feel
like I kind of wont like the teacher jack pot.
(12:57):
But that was like the first time that I've ever
experienced like my teacher like asking about pronouns, and I
thought that was so cool.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
It's actually really devastating.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
But whenever it comes to like advocacy, we talk a lot.
Speaker 12 (13:09):
About like life statistics for trans youth, right but you know,
there's a lot of studies that say that trans youth
who at least have one supportive adult in their life
completely flip.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Those statistics, you know.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
So I always love when teachers do that.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I think it's cool.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Yeah, the most that I've ever gotten was like papers
that said like it was like those icebreaker papers that
you had to do for the teacher to get.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
To know you.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
And a few times I have had pronouns as an option,
like two or three times. I've never had a teacher
directly ask the class or anything, although I will say
that I think that it is a good strategy at
least right now in the climate that we have to
specifically do it as like a private thing of like
I've seen some teachers actually do like papers where it'll
(13:57):
be like a teacher will ask what pronouns would you
prefer me to use for you in private? What would
you prefer me to use in class, and what would
you prefer me to use with their parents?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And I think that's like the ideal.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I can't tell you how exhausting the whole. I don't
know what pronouns are, conversation is, but I'm glad that
our teens aren't.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Quite as jaded as I am.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
They're taking it all in stride, which is necessary, especially
with all the incorrect information about clear and trans folks
out there.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Here's Daniel's take on all of this.
Speaker 6 (14:34):
Kind of to bounce off what Safar said. I always
think it's so like frustrating whenever people are always saying
this misinformation, right, But sometimes we'll go testify at my
state capital and then they'll have like some person from
like a random hateful organization read like a letter for
(14:58):
someone else, and it's just filled to the brim with
like misinformation for people who.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Claim they know what they're talking about.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
And I'm like, if these people really knew what they
were talking about, Like, why can't they come down here?
I would love to see who these people are saying.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
All of this nonsense.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
You know, they're not actual people.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Yeah, Joe Rogan has a friend, uh who knows someone
that said there are kids using litter boxes in the
middle school.
Speaker 9 (15:29):
So obviously the most unbelievable part of that is that
Joe Rogan has a friend, like, I think you could
just end it there. I think you can just end
it there, and they probably alive.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Something strikes me as we listen to this group discuss
these vile attacks on their existence.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
It's their ability to.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Find humor in it while owning the power of their truths. Look,
these lawmakers are using their massive platforms to spew hatred,
to restrict these teens and their futures. But these young
folks are simply not having it. They see through the crap.
Speaker 8 (16:11):
You can try and drive people out of your state
and it might work a little bit, but it's not
going to work entirely. And this like erasure of like
our existence as trans people, and like our history, especially
like indigenous like trans history that has existed and is
well documented, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Literally, just let us live our lives.
Speaker 8 (16:31):
Let us like we're not pushing anything, you know, Like
the people who are not trans are not going through transition.
But there are trans kids, and there are trans adults,
and there are trans people everywhere who need to transition
in or to save their lives.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So the least you could do is hear us out
for them.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
A more expansive and liberated world is necessary and possible,
and I think we can learn a lot from them.
Speaker 10 (17:07):
Gender is so binary when you're like a little kid,
you know, everything's.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
In little categories, you know.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
And so my way of trying to express my gender
was of course drawing family portraits and then I would
have really short hair and wear like a little collar
shirt with a tie, or taking my bas hats my
kids big and just looking at myself in the mirror
and like, wow, I look so cool.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So I remember when I was like three maybe, and
I started to like more like express my gender identity.
Like preschool, I would come home with like these huge
paintings and they were of me with like super long,
like Rapunzel hair and like a huge princess dress, or
(17:57):
like me as like a mermaid, or like all these things.
And I would always have like super long, flowy hair,
and when it was a little I would go around
and tell all my friends that when I grow up,
I'm going to have a hair that touches the floor.
I would always like play house and be like the
mom or like the older sister, the one that rebels.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Hearing Daniel and Libby talk about playing dressed up as
kids and imagining different versions.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Of themselves is touching.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
It also makes me think about my youth and what
I've heard other trans and non binary folks my age
say that gender nonconformity often comes out whether we want
it to or not, and that's a beautiful thing. Like sometimes,
wittingly or unwittingly, we can't help but defy gendered expectations,
(18:51):
and luckily today's youth are able to be farmer, stronger,
and braver than our people have ever been able to before.
More after the break. As this series comes to an end,
(19:17):
I want to thank you for joining this ride with us.
This show, like so much of my work, was birth
from personal experience. When I was growing up in Georgia
back in the two thousands, I knew I was something
outside of what society deemed the norm.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
All I had to lean on.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Was gay, which was wielded like a slur by bullies.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I didn't have access to other queer.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
And trans people or stories in real life ch'all, no
one was even using terms like queer or trans. Around
my preteen years, though, my identity started to come more
into focus. Thanks to internet chat rooms, I found some reprieve.
I was able to connect with folks who shared many
(20:06):
of my experiences. These faceless avatars were my friends, my confidante,
my community. One of them was even my online boyfriend. Yeah,
I was really excited about him anyway. By the time
I was fourteen, I was ready to stop hiding and
(20:27):
share my truth with the people in my life. So
I went to that digital community for advice. I remember
typing the question how do I come out to my parents?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
The advice was pretty jarring.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Don't tell them while they're driving, have a backup plan
in case they kick you out. I was fearful and uncertain,
but I pushed through and mustered up the courage to
tell my mom and then a year later my dad.
Now they weren't exactly enthusiastic, so I note my parents
(21:11):
were Catholic and super devout.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
But I didn't get kicked out. It just created barriers
in our relationships.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
My dad was furious at the thought of me embracing
my clearness, and my mom did her best at the
time to temper his emotions, but eventually sided with him.
They both wanted me to keep it quiet, keep it
to myself, wait for this phase to end. Now, at
(21:45):
thirty two years old, a lot has changed. While my
father passed around the time I was nineteen. It served
as a catalyst for me to embrace a deeper truth
my trans womanhood and my mom, and our relationship evolved beautifully.
She even joined me at the TCH transprom that Libby
(22:06):
and Daniel organized to see her alongside their parents. Gave
me a glimpse of the liberation I think we're all
seeking and deserve. We also deserve lives full of dignity,
joy and power. Young queer and trans people in battleground
(22:28):
states and in places we see as more progressive shouldn't
have to make calculations about their lives, about when to
come out and how about when and where it's safe
to affirm their pronouns, about how to dress in certain spaces,
about who to openly love, about their health.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
And well being.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Reflecting on the stories of these teens throughout the season,
I'm inspired by how each and every one of them
is pushing boundaries and challenging societal norms. Like Safara, who
is one of the first openly trans black women at Harvard.
They're sullying it, who have transcended certain expectations on identity
(23:19):
and self expression, and in the go who showed us
that our relationships are best when we can show up
as our most authentic selves. Our teens have beautifully revealed
to me that we are light years away from what
things were like when I was around their age. They
(23:40):
know that a life of affirmation, of deep expression of
safety is possible, and young people know they shouldn't have
to wait for it. They should have that life now.
I believe one of the most vital things we can
(24:00):
do is believe in the power of our youth. When
they tell us who they are, how they feel, and
where they stand, we should listen.
Speaker 10 (24:11):
There will be people who live and support you that
you can live a joyous life, that you can live
a very full life. And I think that's my main thing.
I want people to know. I want people to see
me being happy and having fun and to understand that
I'm just a kid who has dreams and aspirations and
(24:33):
hobbies and interests like any other kid.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
It's super scary to face a bunch of legislators you
don't know anything about you at all. But it's also
super scary to sit back and watch them try to
just legislate us out of existence. So I keep showing up.
We will always exist. And we will definitely not let
(24:58):
them take away a joy no matter how hard they try.
Speaker 8 (25:01):
I feel like Balram has changed my entire life. It
has like literally made me so much more extroverted, like
made me like grow into my personality and my confidence
as a trans woman. I'm just like your typical your
typical eight girl like extroverted it girl like I just
really am that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 13 (25:20):
Being too spirited is not just my personality, It's who
I am. Being masculine and feminine is who I am.
It's not a personality trait. I'm not going to grow
out of it and mature into something different. It's always
going to be who I am.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
When I go out in the world.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
There's always a chance at getting misgendered, disrespected stuff like that,
even by my own friends. And I just I guess
because of that, I feel more comfortable alone because there's
nobody who knows me and respects me at this moment,
(26:01):
like I do myself.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
That's right, and respect others and respect yourselves. Thank you
for listening to Queer Chronicles. Stay tuned to this feed
for our extra special bonus episode. Queer Chronicles is a
production of School of Humans, The Outspoken Podcast Network and
(26:27):
iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Raquel Willis. You can find
a list of resources in the show notes, including trans
Lifeline and The Trevor Project. This show was written by
Jordan Bailey, Edalise Perez, Aaron Edwards, and Me. Our story
editors are Aaron Edwards and Julia Frelin. Produced by Jordan Bailey,
(26:53):
Julia Frelin, and eedilys Perez. Our senior producer is Amelia Brock,
Directed by etilys Perez. Theme song composed by Jesse Knights,
Sound design and mix by Jesse Night Swanker, casting by
Jordan Bailey and Julia Flave. Our production manager is Daisy Church.
(27:18):
Fact checking by Savannah Hugley. Recorded at Cityvox NYC. Executive
producers include Jay Brunson and Me from The Outspoken Podcast Network,
Michael Alder, June and Noel Brown from iHeart Podcasts, Virginia Prescott,
Brandon Barr and Elsie Crowley from School of Humans and
(27:42):
The Cats Company. If you're enjoying the show, please share
it with friends and family, and don't forget to rate
and review in your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening.
School of Humans.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This is Queer Chronicles.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
This is my personal intry queen. This is Queer Chronicles.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
We've had such an incredible journey getting to know the
stars that is the teens we followed on this season
of Queer Chronicles. They really tapped into authenticity and vulnerability.
We've heard about their experiences with hormone replacement therapy.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
I always feel more comfortable when I'm testosterone, and I
don't really know how to explain it other than it
feels like magic to me.
Speaker 6 (00:58):
You know.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
We've explored how ballroom culture provides a safe haven for
self expression, and we've even heard about their connection to romance.
Speaker 7 (01:16):
I just feel like I could be meet with you,
and I feel like that's so important to having a party.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Their stories deserve this kind of space, and I feel
so honored that they share them with us. We thought
a lot about how to end a season like this,
and we figured maybe the best way to close this
chapter is to just hear from them, unfiltered.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Open and in conversation with each other.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
I'm Raquel Willis from School of Humans, The Outspoken Podcast Network,
and iHeart Podcasts. This is Queer Chronicles, a show where
queer folks document their personal lives and experiences.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
In their own words.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
This season, we spoke with a group of teens in
battleground states across the country, and for our last episode,
we brought our group together to just chat about their
hopes for the future, how they're thinking about what's going
on in the country at large, what movies they're watching.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
And more.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Absolutely nothing was off the table. It was pretty special.
Some of them had never seen each other during the
course of this project, but when everyone got on the call,
it was like watching a first day of school and
a five year reunion at the same time. We had
(02:53):
Daniel from Arizona.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Wait, I just want to say I don't think we've
ever met in person before or life on zoom.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
That's not in person. But I love your haircut so cool.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Connor from Tennis.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, the hair is awesome.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It also from Arizona.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I actually just got a haircut professionally for the first
time since I was fourteen a few weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
So Libby from Texas. Here, she's telling the group which
fictional character she'd most like to be friends with.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It would be Marcelene from Adventure Time. She's pretty cool
and she's kind of a gay icon.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
And Safara, who recently started her undergraduate studies at.
Speaker 8 (03:37):
Harvard, I'm like rewatching the show, like literally like an
hour guys rewatching it, and Marcelene is really that girl,
So you ate that.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
We started off the conversation with a bit of a
full circle moment. Our first episode this season was all
about self expression, so we asked everyone about recent moments
where they felt affirmed in their identities or when they've
had to grapple with the communities around them witnessing their
(04:09):
growth as young people.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
M my one friend from school who's also a trans guy.
Every time we do something that's like if you were
to watch.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
A movie about a group of teenage boys.
Speaker 6 (04:23):
And we did something like that, then we'd be like, dude,
that's so boy, that's so boy of us. One of
my friends mentioned Korn, like the band. Me and my
other friend were just like, that was so boy. We
love Korn and it's so dumb, but it's like so
fun too.
Speaker 9 (04:36):
I feel like the same thing, like in some cases
can be so boy and so girl at the same time.
Just depends on your interpretation exactly.
Speaker 8 (04:44):
Sometimes depending on like I don't know, the contact, so
sometimes things are just so gender and I literally, I
literally am like, that is so gender you like, I
don't know, like example would be like Harry's styles or
like something like just some type of like that is
so gender.
Speaker 10 (05:01):
Like.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I love that you're doing that.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Shout out to the Zoomers for keeping us on our toes.
So when it comes to language, I'm adding that cell
gender to my personal dictionary. But aside from dropping new slang,
our teens share more about their gender affirming moments, like
Connor's vocal change of I've been.
Speaker 9 (05:24):
On disasterone since April.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I don't know, I haven't been counting. I probably should
do that.
Speaker 9 (05:31):
And I also have my name legally change, which happened recently,
and I just started my junior year of high school
and my school hasn't changed my name in any of
the systems, so I still get called my dead name,
and without it being in my records. A lot of
my teachers will say I'm not gonna call you that,
(05:54):
which is rough, but it's also kind of funny because
I pretty much have like a mustache and my voice
is deeper than like my cis male voice teachers, so
they're just calling me this girly name, and I'm like,
I'll say here, but like look me in my eyes
(06:15):
and tell me that's what you believe. Like I like
I passed to the point where they look dumb, and
I'm like, there is nothing I can do to stop you.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
But one of us looks dumb in this situation, and
it's not me.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I haven't heard your voice since like right after you
started testosterone, and it's like.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, it's I.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Like you turn on your mike and I was like.
Speaker 9 (06:36):
Oh yeah, I think I've gone down. Like my lowest
singing note gone down six notes.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
That's awesome. My gender throwing moment of like the last
week or so.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
Was basically I'm in like this organization and like we're
planning this trans centered conference at Harvard, and I was
talking with Lee and they do like black abolition work
while being like a trans person, and I do like
(07:17):
trans centered activist work while being like a black person,
and like more.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Like two sides of like the same coin.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
And it was just like I was literally like smiling
like ear to ear, just like oh my god, like
I actually have like someone that like understands me, and
like that's so amazing that like I actually get to
have that like connection and to have someone like right
there next to me, like I can like walk twenty
steps and go to their like dorm and like that's
(07:45):
just like so exciting for me, Like I don't know,
it's literally like amazing. So I love that, Like I
get to like some in the next like four years
with them.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I hate to butt into safar as Joy, But don't worry,
She'll have even more for us after the break, so
I know, I said.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
We talk more about Joy.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
But we had to ask our teens directly about the
political crisis their generation is facing in this moment.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So we went there and.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Played them a clip of one of the most infamous
anti transators in the game right now, Texas Governor Greg Abbott.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
A person under the age of eighteen.
Speaker 11 (08:37):
They don't have the mental capacity to make a life
changing decision.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
We asked our teens their thoughts on what it feels
like for him to talk about them without actually knowing them.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Okay, I'll start, He's so stupid. I just I.
Speaker 8 (08:56):
Hate him because very ironically, I am going to the
private pre trial court hearing tomorrow with transgender education at
Work Texas, which is where I work part time. And
they just have like the dumbest people be like their
key witnesses talking about like the most stupid like pseudoscience.
(09:19):
And I hate all of I hate all of it,
and I'm going to go back tomorrow and continue hating
all of it.
Speaker 9 (09:27):
As a government official, you absolutely have better things to
be doing, like one hundred percent, one hundred percent. You
want to talk about gun control or the lack thereof, Sure,
that's a topic that like actually makes sense to be
talking about. You want to talk about anything with the economy,
(09:48):
Sure that makes sense to be talking about. You want
to talk about the military, you want to talk about
the roads, you want to talk about education.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That's your job.
Speaker 9 (09:57):
Your job is not to say I don't want you
wearing a dress.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
That is not your job.
Speaker 9 (10:03):
That is not what you were given that position to do.
And like, frankly, why do you care? Why do you care?
No one's putting you in a dress, no one's putting
your wife in a suit, Like it's just it's okay.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
It's like like a firing rage group in me is
like how do you know that? And the biggest frustration
for me is like you were a teenager wants to
and the fact that you can't see that you I'm
sure you felt similar ways of like I feel like
I'm not being treated like a person. I feel like
I'm not being taken seriously. And yes, there are things
(10:42):
that I don't know, and there are things that I'm
going to learn, and I'm looking forward to that in
the future, to learn things about life and about living
and existence. But how am I supposed to do that
if I can't live to get to that point?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
How am I supposed to learn and.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Like understand more if I can't even feel comfortable being
who I am?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Along with Abbott, we also talked about how teachers, people
who these teenagers spend a lot of time with, are
being pitted against them. Florida Governor Ron de Santis, for instance,
has been talking about banning educators from encouraging and using
students chosen pronouns. Here's a rather unfortunate clip.
Speaker 11 (11:34):
We've also led the way, and I always been right
there with us, and recently has done a lot on
this of eliminating gender ideology in our schools. It is
wrong for a teacher to be telling a young student
that they may have been born in the wrong body,
or that their gender is a choice.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And our teens had some words.
Speaker 8 (11:56):
Like I'm sorry, but like the like pronoun like what
are your pronouns? Like introduction on the first day of school,
Like that's not changing anyone's any there's no ideology being
pushed when like teachers have like that like intro or
they're like, hi, I miss whatever and I use her
pronouns like and it's.
Speaker 9 (12:14):
Like one in fifty teachers that do that anyway, if
you're lucky.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
And when they do, there's always the guy that's like,
my pronouns are USA, and it's like that guy.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
That says I don't have pronouns.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I'm a man, Like that guy is more common than.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
A teacher that asks your pronouns.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
This happened to me like for the first time last year.
My teacher she has a non binary kid and a
bisexual daughter, and so I feel like she understands and
like is pretty good about that. And my other teacher
is married to a non binary person, so I feel
like I kind of wont like the teacher jack pot.
(12:57):
But that was like the first time that I've ever
experienced like my teacher like asking about pronouns, and I
thought that was so cool.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
It's actually really devastating.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
But whenever it comes to like advocacy, we talk a lot.
Speaker 12 (13:09):
About like life statistics for trans youth, right but you know,
there's a lot of studies that say that trans youth
who at least have one supportive adult in their life
completely flip.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Those statistics, you know.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
So I always love when teachers do that.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I think it's cool.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Yeah, the most that I've ever gotten was like papers
that said like it was like those icebreaker papers that
you had to do for the teacher to get.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
To know you.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
And a few times I have had pronouns as an option,
like two or three times. I've never had a teacher
directly ask the class or anything, although I will say
that I think that it is a good strategy at
least right now in the climate that we have to
specifically do it as like a private thing of like
I've seen some teachers actually do like papers where it'll
(13:57):
be like a teacher will ask what pronouns would you
prefer me to use for you in private? What would
you prefer me to use in class, and what would
you prefer me to use with their parents?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And I think that's like the ideal.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I can't tell you how exhausting the whole. I don't
know what pronouns are, conversation is, but I'm glad that
our teens aren't.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Quite as jaded as I am.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
They're taking it all in stride, which is necessary, especially
with all the incorrect information about clear and trans folks
out there.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Here's Daniel's take on all of this.
Speaker 6 (14:34):
Kind of to bounce off what Safar said. I always
think it's so like frustrating whenever people are always saying
this misinformation, right, But sometimes we'll go testify at my
state capital and then they'll have like some person from
like a random hateful organization read like a letter for
(14:58):
someone else, and it's just filled to the brim with
like misinformation for people who.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Claim they know what they're talking about.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
And I'm like, if these people really knew what they
were talking about, Like, why can't they come down here?
I would love to see who these people are saying.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
All of this nonsense.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
You know, they're not actual people.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Yeah, Joe Rogan has a friend, uh who knows someone
that said there are kids using litter boxes in the
middle school.
Speaker 9 (15:29):
So obviously the most unbelievable part of that is that
Joe Rogan has a friend, like, I think you could
just end it there. I think you can just end
it there, and they probably alive.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Something strikes me as we listen to this group discuss
these vile attacks on their existence.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
It's their ability to.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Find humor in it while owning the power of their truths. Look,
these lawmakers are using their massive platforms to spew hatred,
to restrict these teens and their futures. But these young
folks are simply not having it. They see through the crap.
Speaker 8 (16:11):
You can try and drive people out of your state
and it might work a little bit, but it's not
going to work entirely. And this like erasure of like
our existence as trans people, and like our history, especially
like indigenous like trans history that has existed and is
well documented, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Literally, just let us live our lives.
Speaker 8 (16:31):
Let us like we're not pushing anything, you know, Like
the people who are not trans are not going through transition.
But there are trans kids, and there are trans adults,
and there are trans people everywhere who need to transition
in or to save their lives.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So the least you could do is hear us out
for them.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
A more expansive and liberated world is necessary and possible,
and I think we can learn a lot from them.
Speaker 10 (17:07):
Gender is so binary when you're like a little kid,
you know, everything's.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
In little categories, you know.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
And so my way of trying to express my gender
was of course drawing family portraits and then I would
have really short hair and wear like a little collar
shirt with a tie, or taking my bas hats my
kids big and just looking at myself in the mirror
and like, wow, I look so cool.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So I remember when I was like three maybe, and
I started to like more like express my gender identity.
Like preschool, I would come home with like these huge
paintings and they were of me with like super long,
like Rapunzel hair and like a huge princess dress, or
(17:57):
like me as like a mermaid, or like all these things.
And I would always have like super long, flowy hair,
and when it was a little I would go around
and tell all my friends that when I grow up,
I'm going to have a hair that touches the floor.
I would always like play house and be like the
mom or like the older sister, the one that rebels.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Hearing Daniel and Libby talk about playing dressed up as
kids and imagining different versions.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Of themselves is touching.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
It also makes me think about my youth and what
I've heard other trans and non binary folks my age
say that gender nonconformity often comes out whether we want
it to or not, and that's a beautiful thing. Like sometimes,
wittingly or unwittingly, we can't help but defy gendered expectations,
(18:51):
and luckily today's youth are able to be farmer, stronger,
and braver than our people have ever been able to before.
More after the break. As this series comes to an end,
(19:17):
I want to thank you for joining this ride with us.
This show, like so much of my work, was birth
from personal experience. When I was growing up in Georgia
back in the two thousands, I knew I was something
outside of what society deemed the norm.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
All I had to lean on.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Was gay, which was wielded like a slur by bullies.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I didn't have access to other queer.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
And trans people or stories in real life ch'all, no
one was even using terms like queer or trans. Around
my preteen years, though, my identity started to come more
into focus. Thanks to internet chat rooms, I found some reprieve.
I was able to connect with folks who shared many
(20:06):
of my experiences. These faceless avatars were my friends, my confidante,
my community. One of them was even my online boyfriend. Yeah,
I was really excited about him anyway. By the time
I was fourteen, I was ready to stop hiding and
(20:27):
share my truth with the people in my life. So
I went to that digital community for advice. I remember
typing the question how do I come out to my parents?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
The advice was pretty jarring.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Don't tell them while they're driving, have a backup plan
in case they kick you out. I was fearful and uncertain,
but I pushed through and mustered up the courage to
tell my mom and then a year later my dad.
Now they weren't exactly enthusiastic, so I note my parents
(21:11):
were Catholic and super devout.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
But I didn't get kicked out. It just created barriers
in our relationships.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
My dad was furious at the thought of me embracing
my clearness, and my mom did her best at the
time to temper his emotions, but eventually sided with him.
They both wanted me to keep it quiet, keep it
to myself, wait for this phase to end. Now, at
(21:45):
thirty two years old, a lot has changed. While my
father passed around the time I was nineteen. It served
as a catalyst for me to embrace a deeper truth
my trans womanhood and my mom, and our relationship evolved beautifully.
She even joined me at the TCH transprom that Libby
(22:06):
and Daniel organized to see her alongside their parents. Gave
me a glimpse of the liberation I think we're all
seeking and deserve. We also deserve lives full of dignity,
joy and power. Young queer and trans people in battleground
(22:28):
states and in places we see as more progressive shouldn't
have to make calculations about their lives, about when to
come out and how about when and where it's safe
to affirm their pronouns, about how to dress in certain spaces,
about who to openly love, about their health.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
And well being.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Reflecting on the stories of these teens throughout the season,
I'm inspired by how each and every one of them
is pushing boundaries and challenging societal norms. Like Safara, who
is one of the first openly trans black women at Harvard.
They're sullying it, who have transcended certain expectations on identity
(23:19):
and self expression, and in the go who showed us
that our relationships are best when we can show up
as our most authentic selves. Our teens have beautifully revealed
to me that we are light years away from what
things were like when I was around their age. They
(23:40):
know that a life of affirmation, of deep expression of
safety is possible, and young people know they shouldn't have
to wait for it. They should have that life now.
I believe one of the most vital things we can
(24:00):
do is believe in the power of our youth. When
they tell us who they are, how they feel, and
where they stand, we should listen.
Speaker 10 (24:11):
There will be people who live and support you that
you can live a joyous life, that you can live
a very full life. And I think that's my main thing.
I want people to know. I want people to see
me being happy and having fun and to understand that
I'm just a kid who has dreams and aspirations and
(24:33):
hobbies and interests like any other kid.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
It's super scary to face a bunch of legislators you
don't know anything about you at all. But it's also
super scary to sit back and watch them try to
just legislate us out of existence. So I keep showing up.
We will always exist. And we will definitely not let
(24:58):
them take away a joy no matter how hard they try.
Speaker 8 (25:01):
I feel like Balram has changed my entire life. It
has like literally made me so much more extroverted, like
made me like grow into my personality and my confidence
as a trans woman. I'm just like your typical your
typical eight girl like extroverted it girl like I just
really am that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 13 (25:20):
Being too spirited is not just my personality, It's who
I am. Being masculine and feminine is who I am.
It's not a personality trait. I'm not going to grow
out of it and mature into something different. It's always
going to be who I am.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
When I go out in the world.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
There's always a chance at getting misgendered, disrespected stuff like that,
even by my own friends. And I just I guess
because of that, I feel more comfortable alone because there's
nobody who knows me and respects me at this moment,
(26:01):
like I do myself.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
That's right, and respect others and respect yourselves. Thank you
for listening to Queer Chronicles. Stay tuned to this feed
for our extra special bonus episode. Queer Chronicles is a
production of School of Humans, The Outspoken Podcast Network and
(26:27):
iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Raquel Willis. You can find
a list of resources in the show notes, including trans
Lifeline and The Trevor Project. This show was written by
Jordan Bailey, Edalise Perez, Aaron Edwards, and Me. Our story
editors are Aaron Edwards and Julia Frelin. Produced by Jordan Bailey,
(26:53):
Julia Frelin, and eedilys Perez. Our senior producer is Amelia Brock,
Directed by etilys Perez. Theme song composed by Jesse Knights,
Sound design and mix by Jesse Night Swanker, casting by
Jordan Bailey and Julia Flave. Our production manager is Daisy Church.
(27:18):
Fact checking by Savannah Hugley. Recorded at Cityvox NYC. Executive
producers include Jay Brunson and Me from The Outspoken Podcast Network,
Michael Alder, June and Noel Brown from iHeart Podcasts, Virginia Prescott,
Brandon Barr and Elsie Crowley from School of Humans and
(27:42):
The Cats Company. If you're enjoying the show, please share
it with friends and family, and don't forget to rate
and review in your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening.
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