Bernadette Cooper

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio,
Ladies and gentlemen. What's Up? This is Quess Love and
this is another episode of Quest Love Supreme. We got
the Team Supreme with us right now, the one and
the only shook a Steve Yo Yo, how goes Itto?

(00:23):
Oh wow? Um? Oh you're you're You're shocked that I
actually care about your world being? Yes, um, but now
I'm I'm feeling good. Everything's good. So glad to be
here with Team Supreme and burn Jack gonna be great fantolo. Yeah, man,
I'm good brother fighting for his uh, his his rights

(00:46):
and his masters and or as we call it in
the music business Wednesday. Whatever I feel you, I feel
you uh, and and our our Diva that he's left
to Uh. How's it going. It's good. I'm mad we

(01:11):
ain't doing a rod call because I'm just we were
doing right now. I would really, I know, man, we're
gonna but by the time, hopefully someone will invent a
system that will, you know, fix all the latency problems
or way you know for roll call ladies and gentlemen.
I will say that speaking of Diva, our guest today,

(01:34):
it's probably I mean, she's beyond diva, she is beyond queen,
she is beyond legend. She just is. And I'll say that,
I know it's hard to imagine. I'm not trying to
sound like Grandpa. I noticed that, like all my tales
of music starts with the like we'll bringack in my day.
But you know, it's really it's really hard to imagine

(01:58):
like a like a time period and which being in
a band like wasn't like a novel idea. And you know,
a lot can happen in in thirty five years where
are now living in the age of the solo act
and you know a lot of these acts are chasing perfection.

(02:18):
We're pre recorded tracks. But I mean there was there
was a time in history where you know, where collaboration
was key. Magic came in in in in numbers, and
it was it was a thing to see, you know,
to watch people as a unit kick gas. And I
will say that our guests really personifies that. You know,

(02:38):
the band that she established in the late seventies known
as Climax was pretty much you know, I'll say that
kind of sort of anomaly consisting of badass women playing instruments,
which you know, sad to say that again, like the
fact that that's the novelty shows you like the the
sad state of of where we are right now in music.

(03:01):
But you know this particular band, you know, the hits
were a plenty, one of the best puns in music.
Uh you know men all pause, Uh, the anthemic don't
mess with me anthem meeting in the ladies room. Not
to mention in the movie Yeah, and the forever prim

(03:22):
anthem from my era you so many hits, so many hits,
the name sexy Divas, need Love Too and everything um,
not to mention her work as a producer with chry Lynne,
Paula Abduel, Pett Mitler, Shalamar and I can't wait till
we start talking about Madam X. Madam X is probably
the most expensive record I've ever purchased on eBay. This

(03:45):
before I knew that you could rip songs off of YouTube.
So anyway, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to our show,
the one and only the legendary Diva of all divas,
Bernard Deck Cooper, The Quest Love Supreme. Hello, Hello Yo.

(04:05):
I noticed something. When a microphone is present, I cannot
whistle my whistles. I was trying to whistle when it
was just like look like like blowing kisses at us. Yeah. Anyway,
So let's Cooper, how are you today? How how's it going.
I'm doing well. It's an honor, honor to be here

(04:27):
with all of you. Thank you. What what part of
the world are you in right now? Right now? I'm
in Westchester right now. My studio is here. Not that
not your west Chester and my west Chester. There's a
west Chester, California. I was like, you know, you're down
the block. Okay, I thought you were. Na I got
my studio out here. I'm working. Jerry Brown told me

(04:49):
to say hello, the legendary Jerry the engineer Jerry Brown. Yes, yes,
is it Christmas in his studio right now? That guy's
names coming up. Yeah, he told me to say hello.
He just actually he was here working in my in
my studio, I have a mixing room and he just did.
He worked on John Legend. Yeah, his Christmas. Yeah, Jerry's

(05:10):
world famous for his his Christmas decorations in the studio.
Just talked about food lamps and his lights and his
candles and he brings the sexy. Okay, I've never heard
his designs design described the sexy like he always looked
the cheerful and hat like. When we're there, it's like

(05:32):
it's Christmas. I feel like I should be, you know,
bringing a gift or whatever. But um, yeah, you know, uh,
of course, being on the show puts us in the
the position of always having access to a lot of
the acts that we grew up, one that we feel
that haven't been praised enough for, haven't gotten that much attention.

(05:56):
And what was weird is that I work at t
Rock and Phillip Plaza, which I consider sort of like
a a university for comedy. That's where like Seth Meyers
and The Tonight Show with Jimmy fallon Saturday Night Live
and all these these legendary New York shows are or shot,
and um, whenever Saturday Night Live is in season, um,

(06:18):
I'm usually there to watch tapings of the show. And
this year was like really something special in which just
out of nowhere, they did this really awesome sketch based
on the Ladies Room. I was hoping he was going
to where I could follow. Yes, you know what, it's
actually the second one, the first one Hallie Berry halle

(06:41):
Berry right right, I I totally I remember I was
laughing because it was so authentic and so on point.
I was, you know, the audience was laughing, but I
was laughing like it was funny, and I knew the
reference point, you know, whereas I think half the audience

(07:04):
was like millennials and gen Z would just thought like, oh,
they're doing some crazy eighties thing that we don't get
the reference. And I remember grilling um Steve Higgins, who's
sort of like Jimmy's uh sidekick on the Tonight Show.
He runs Saturday Night Live, and I just grilled him like, yo,
like you guys did such a deep cut inside joke

(07:26):
that like who who in your audience do you think
we're really remember like climax, and the very specifics of
like you know, Cecily Strong playing the Bernardette Cooper role
and Leslie played like it was. It was so on point.
I was really impressed, and I wanted to meet the
writers and they were just like, you know, we we
like music too, and we we go outside the box,

(07:47):
even though they were young writers. I was really impressed
that that they gave you guys, like really a really
good shout out for your legacy, like that sketch is
gonna go you know down. I feel like that will
be on their sizzle reel down. Yeah. Yeah, it was great.
When I saw it, it it was you know how you know,
I watched Saturday Night Light every night, have you Saturday Night? Yeah,

(08:07):
and to sit there and bed, you know, you got
your popcorn and all of a sudden, bam, It's like,
oh wow, it was great. It was a great honor
and you didn't know it was coming that. That's that's awesome,
isn't it Isn't that good from a licensing perspective too, right,
Like when they do something like that burning that isn't
good for you for real. You know. Sometimes you know
when royalty time comes, you know, then I would really know.
Sometimes sometimes it is and sometimes you know, sometimes it

(08:31):
just sparks sales people are like and I don't call
him up and go, hey, where's my check? I don't
do that. I just I just kind of enjoyed the
moment and and you know, I'm honored. Yeah. Yeah. I
think like when when it's done in parody, it's not
the same as like clearing a sample. You're kind of
they're kind of parody laws that. But I think they

(08:52):
actually did meeting in the ladies. Yeah, so it's just
it's like a standard payment thing. But hopefully that plant
seeds with you know, with an audience, and they'll do
the research and and that's how that's how legends are made.
A promoters will will remember that we're here. Yes, wow,

(09:15):
I didn't think about that. So many questions about that,
So I would like to know because I really don't,
you know, besides like the occasional coverage and like right
on magazine shout out to Cynthia Horner, I really don't know.
I mean, there's not there haven't been that much in
depth interviews with you guys, even though you guys were

(09:36):
doing the numbers. You guys were like doing massive pop hits. Um.
So I'm glad that we finally have this chance to
talk to you. Were you born in Los Angeles? Yes,
I was born in Los Angeles, lived in Compton, Inglewood, Hollywood,
grew up in mainly you know, after after high school,

(09:58):
I moved to the Hollywood area and I of their
and beach Wick, Kingyon did all of that. So, yes,
Los Angeles. Then I moved to New York for ten years. Back. Yeah,
keep telling us, Ken, you tell me what your first
musical memory was wow. Um, when you say musical memory
like band that I just from as a baby, Like

(10:20):
what like the very first musical memory as a child
Aretha of course, you know. And the Aretha Franklin was
my was my played in my household when they were
happy times, when they were sad times. So Aretha was
a person that I used to listen to and follow
her lyrics and her and her vocal movements and her hooks,

(10:43):
and and it made me a better writer by the
Franklin songs. And then of course moving on, um di
o'daddo remember the o'daddo. Yeah, it was a little bit
of all those guys. Jeff Beck really got into that
scene in kind of in the high school junior high

(11:04):
school era. But um, yeah, I would say, Aretha Franklin,
what was your what was the family record collection? Like
in your household? It's actually two part of what was
the what was what was the established records that were
in your house? But then I want to know what
was the album that you purchased with your own money,
Like this is something I want out of out of

(11:26):
your parents range. Aretha gladys Um, you know, Ray Charles,
that was the songs that would be being played in
my house household when I when I went out about
were songs like as I said that, the Odado's, the
the U. I got really into the Icntina Turner. I
really loved them. You know, it's not really much when

(11:47):
I look back and kind of I had a range
of people that I really really loved, Michael Henderson. All
those kind of people are the people I used to
come home from high school and listen to in your
household where you like, did you have other siblings, like
how was this music passed out? Was like older cousins
or older siblings that put you onto it? Or and
I didn't really have a musical household, you know, other

(12:10):
than the songs I just mentioned that that were played,
you know, which is was Arita. I got more into
it when I was in with the church and then
my Yeah, and then as far as playing the drums
is concerned, my mom married the preacher and he had
a drum set, and I started practicing every day story yeah,
a drama and uh, and I started practicing every day,

(12:35):
and then I taught myself how to play drums. Why
did drums because they were there? I mean really wasn't.
It wasn't. It wasn't like a passion or a love.
I want to play the drum. They happened to be there,
and I kind of geared towards it, and my brothers
started playing the bass, and we were together in the
garage practicing every day. And he probably made me a

(12:58):
more powerful drummer because he really put to me, you know.
And then we played in the church band, and that's
my early beginning musical life. Then of course, created a
group called Blue Ice, which was in junior high school
with Michael Northflee. You know Michael Northflee, right, I know
this name, but for our listeners, can you tell Michael

(13:19):
Northfleet he's a keyboard player, Chucky Booker, you know Chucky Booker,
Michael Northfleet. All those guys are kind of like that same, right.
So I started a band in junior high school called
Blue Ice. Horn section had a guy like like my uh,
James Brown. We want all the contests because he was
James Brown. And then we had a girl drummer. Oh no,

(13:42):
we want everything. So you're always in those battle band
things in high school and junior yes, yes, And you
are always in diverse bands to like yes, diverse bands.
And then uh, then I took a love In the
high school, I started learning how to write because I'm
really kind of a musician who plays by air and
I created by air and I kind of hear it

(14:03):
in my head and I played and I learned how
to play read music in high school and that's where
the early beginnings were started. Even even back then, did
you have a yearning or did you feel that there

(14:23):
was a need for a band of all women, because
I think by that point, when I was a kid,
the only band that I saw that had like women
playing an equal role in the instrumentation. I mean besides
that of the Family Stone, which you know, it's kind
of mind bloom for people to see like a trumpet
player and a keyboard player. But I remember growing up

(14:44):
watching there was a Philly group called Ecstasy, Passion and Pain,
and they had had a drummer named Cookie, and I
was really impressed, like asking my mom, like, yo, girls
can play drums too, Like did they act like that
was a novelty or was it just normal because normally
when you think of a drummer, it's always a man

(15:06):
behind the skins or whatever. It's like very unusual for
certain instruments to be played by women, be like a
trombone or like it's like as you don't see. But
were people making a big deal of that, And did
you take advantage of the fact that, And did you
play any other instruments as well? No, And what you
just said is the reason why I came to mind.

(15:26):
But there was a void, you know. One day, you know,
just in my load, my young mind, I said, wow,
there's not a lot of female musicians. I said it
would be great to create an all girl band. And
then watching LaBelle really really I love LaBelle, okay, And
I watched them, and I saw the excitement that that
everybody had when these girls got on stage. And you know,

(15:48):
I'm one of those kind of people who cry when
I see things that you're so unusual that, you know,
and they would they were just moving me. And I said,
one day it would be great to um put together
an all girl band. And I mean people ask me
this question all the time. I don't really have an
incredible answer other than that I think it was meant
to be. And I just kind of came to me.

(16:10):
And this is a little young girl who had this
idea started checking the yellow pages, remember the Yellow Pages,
and trying to look for other musicians, calling radio, UM
recordar labels and asking them, Hey, would you guys be
interested in all girl band? You know if finally one

(16:30):
one record company said yes, we would be I have
an idea. That's how it started. Wait a minute, that's
how you got into the because we have a billion
questions about Dick Griffy. But that's how that started. No, No,
not Dick Griffy. Yet another label. This was another label
and another lady. It was a lady by the name

(16:52):
of um who was the and our person at this
particular said, I think it wasn't I forgot the name
of the record was the Sounds Sell Watched radio record label. Anyway,
she was the A and our person. She says, come,
I want to meet with you about this concept that
you have. So we met, and she says, I met
youestered her and I together, she kind of she and

(17:15):
then the record label funded my idea for a while,
and I started looking for girls to the recycler paper.
I started rehearsing these girls, and I turned the studio
in Inglewood, which I have great stories about it. Yeah,
because I was like them you was a fan, and
then a circle back. I love it. Yeah, yeah, And
I turned the studio and I started like she she

(17:36):
really kind of finded this and she I don't know.
She was coming up with the money that helped me
with this idea. And I said, I have a great
name for the band. She said, let me know what
the band is. I said, Climax. She says, I love
it spelled with the K and why it may act act.
She says, I love the whole concept of it. And
that's how you know, That's how the seed was planted.
And then from there we went on you go up

(17:59):
a little bit because um also a recurring theme on
the show Our Tales from me I turned a studio.
We had some nice ones from Charlie. Listen about studios.
If yes, if the walls could talk, Yeah, what was

(18:19):
happening at that studio? You know? I would pipe people.
He would peek in every once in a while after rehearsals.
You know, we weren't that good. No, we didn't really
get good to later on in life. But we were
playing and we were trying and we were dedicated. So
he would peep in, and he had a bodyguard at
that time I forgot the gentleman's name, but he took

(18:40):
a liking to me the bodyguard, and we became friends.
We would all the time. This is important. I'm going
to get back to that. We love these stories. Yeah.
The one time that that I finally said. He came
into the studio and he looked around and he looked
at me. And then the guy let's call him Steve. Okay,

(19:01):
not sugar Steve, but she just listed. So he says, Um,
he says, I want to talk to you, coming to
if he wants you into the front studio, because you know,
the rehearsal studios were on the side of the building.
So I said okay, and the girls were kind of
looking at me, and I go, I'll be back, and
I went in and I'm gonna sell tell the story.
We're not gonna we're not gonna mess around here. So um,

(19:23):
I went in there and I came and I was
holding his pipe. He was getting high, and he goes, here,
I want you to hit this right, and I go, well,
I don't do drugs and I don't drink. I don't
do any of that. He goes, I said, hit it,
hit this pipe right. Look at that Mary and Barry.

(19:45):
That's how it happened. Go ahead, I'm sorry and he
said hit the pipe and I was like, no, I
don't do and he says, I said, he got really
aggressive with me. He said no. He says, you're good.
He said, you're really good on the drums. You're gonna
go somewhere. And he goes and hit the pipe and
there's Steve said, man, leave her alone. She's a good girl.
Man leave her alone. And I listened to him and

(20:07):
he just gee took me out of there, back to
the rehearsal studio. Wow, if it was the guy was it?
Was it Frost? In the What's Love Got to Do
With the movie? Ch McBride's character Frost was like this guy,
I wonder if it was. He was a kind of
a big guy. Yeah, yes, I remember and um he um.

(20:31):
He saved me that day because I would have been
a different girl today, you know. But but I had
to tell the story the way it happened. There's no
way of sugarcoating that and no niceties, no like hey,
what's your name? And I was just like here, hit this,
hit that. Yeah. When he gave me a compliment. First,
he told me, I was good, I'm gonna be good,

(20:51):
and all of this kind of stuff. You know. I
guess that was the softened me up a little bit.
And I was like, no, sir, you know, I was
very respectful, and I said, I say, I know, I don't.
I don't. I don't do drugs. I don't, I don't.
I don't want to do that. I'm striping because America,
like Ike Turner would not have existed with his studio

(21:14):
it being successful, people going to him being able to
say that to you, like, oh, no, what exists. It's
still it's still going on. Yeah, I was gonna say,
I'm sad to say that. Probably, Yes, it's still going on.
It's still going on. I mean, look at it. I'm
just look at all the entertainers who are dying. You know,

(21:35):
that's true. There's still a culture. There's a drug thing.
We just don't. We just don't know it because we
don't we're not in it. I'm at the misogynistic part
of that. That the way he approached you and everything
like that, what happens, It still happens. I was gonna say,
how how hard is it to be taken seriously in
a time in which the even the idea of being,

(21:59):
I mean Usian a female musician is such a rarity,
like how are you able to be taken seriously where
it's just like, no, I'm not messing with Bernard that
Cooper you know, or did you have to invent that
character that we well know because you have this don't
mess with met of stands with you. Well, I do

(22:22):
have an alti ego, you know, and that would be
my alter ego that the other the real Bernie the
Cooper is very shy and very I'm a very cluse
and I'm really kind of like in this character. I
created this, this other character to get me through I guess,
you know, as I said, a lot of this stuff
was meant to be. I can't really go oh. I
created this character because of good you know. And it

(22:42):
was also a shield that I used to deal with
a lot of family um um mental abuse and not
really um sharing in my dream. So I said, Okay,
I'm going to create this character strong superwoman because I
gotta make I gotta make it to the next day,
you know. So I created this character, and this character

(23:03):
went on to work. She became the Slapman girl, you know,
and I and I looked good. All that stuff is.
It's really about loving yourself. It has nothing to do
with physical appearance. But you have to be a deeper
to understand that. You know. I'm just curious if you
believe it at the time, what are you just saying it?
We don't know. I was saying it from another from
an inner perspective. I wasn't saying that, I know, I'm

(23:25):
the cute. I was saying it because I had to
find strength and going forward in this world by myself,
with my dream. So I created this character um to
achieve that, you know, and like that character is still here.
I'm still the clues. I'm still a very clue, but
they're still working together the character. We don't know that though,

(23:46):
right don't don't tell us how the sausages made, like
we we exactly. So, yeah, I was gonna ask. You know, oftentimes,
especially in black households, you know, survival, you know, hooker
crook is is job one. That's what parents think, like
get something to fall back on, get a good paying job,

(24:08):
that sort of thing. Like we're well, you kind of
answered it, but we're what was your family's feelings on
you pursuing this dream or was it like like you
got till the age of nineteen to make it or
else you know, you gotta work at the post office.
Like did they give you ultimatums or were they quasi nurturing,

(24:29):
you know? Or were they church people? They It was
a little bit of all of it, but the bottom
line is that, um, they weren't filling it. Nobody, and um,
you know I was. I was. My plan was to
go to law school and become an attorney and to
do that, and they were kind of like all behind
me by mail car and took care of me and

(24:51):
all of that stuff. But one day, sitting in my
accounting class, which was an elective that I had to take,
which I was, I was sitting there looking at the
my teacher like, I don't want to be here anymore.
I want to play the drums. I want to be
in a band. I'm never coming back again. So I
got up and I left in my class and I said,

(25:11):
that's when I began my search for the all girl band.
Yeah that was caught. Well you know what it was, Um,
you have to understand that I was an honest to this.
So I got out of high school fast. Yeah, yeah,
so I was kind of which high school did you
go to? I went to Compton in Inglewood High School.
I graduated from Inglewood High School. I went to a

(25:33):
Compton my what ninth and tenth, my tent in the
eleventh grade, and then I graduated. My mother moved to
Inglewood and I graduated from Inglewood. Okay, so I gotta
know what, you know, when most of us here, especially
us non California natives here about Compton, of course, we

(25:53):
start just thinking that the legend of whatever n w
A was painting about what Compton represented until the treat
Treat Russian Russian. I wasna, she was, she was, she
actually was a lot, but she was and then tasted honey.
They were out during that time. They were out during

(26:15):
that time, So that probably influenced me a little bit
too as far as the girl concept as well. Okay,
but what what was your high school like and like?
Was it nurturing environment? Was it more Jill Clark lean
on me dangerous? You know, I have to say this,
And you know I was a tar baby. A tar baby, right,

(26:38):
that was the the the logo was a tar baby.
But those are the most wonderful years of my life
in Compton High School were the most wonderful year. And
that's when the game started shooting. Finally that started. And
when I was in school that started happening, the shooting
and then and what was in the shooting and what

(27:00):
kind of drugs was in then? Um uh good no, no, no, no,
the one before that people Heroine No no, no, no,
it was angel just started. Nobody wasn't. That's how I
got into the That's what I got into the music class.
That's where I started meeting new friends. That's where I

(27:22):
felt loved. Nobody had nothing, so nobody was trying to
act like they have nothing, you know. So that was
a wonderful place to me for me. And then my
mother moved to Inglewood and I was kind of all along,
you know, all alone. I didn't really you know, so
I graduated from high school early and I was able to,
you know, go to college. Yeah, not being from California,
you realize how far those two places are. You don't

(27:44):
realize how far those two places are from each other.
What Inglewood and Compton just as culturally, it just seemed
like yeah culture, yeah, yeah, exactly. I think to an
outsider though, like I would think that the schools were
more closer to Joe Clark's Leano me where you might
not live the end of the school day. But was

(28:06):
it that dire or is that just awood know that
during that time it wasn't that dime she pre that
I remember, And it's funny if you watch I don't
know if you will. You watched them, that was them
right that came out over the COVID where they showed
Compton before Burnard death generation when it was like white folks,
just straight suburbs. Yeah, it was. It was cold, you know,

(28:29):
I think I think there was one gunshot next week
everybody out. That's why my mother moved to Inglewood. Um. Yeah,
it just drugs angel That's pretty much it. And the
rest of it was like a great experience for me.
I had friends. You know, you're talking about a loner
who made friends. You know, I lived in Compton for
one year as a baby, but you know, I don't

(28:50):
have any memories as a two year older. But I
do have a photo of me um at a crypt
meeting because all my cousins were crips. So I had
a bandanna and a Derby on could have been a clip.
I could have been, you know, I was. I was,
you know, they were trying to crip me up, brought
me to the meetings. Can you tell me what the

(29:17):
audition process or at least what were you looking for
in the audition process that basically brought like Joyce and Lynn,
Lorraina and Sherlin uh well, Robin Robin. There were a
lot of different versions of Climax before I got to
thank you for saying this. Yeah, I was gonna say that.

(29:37):
I think there were seven women on the was down
with the hot air balloon the first one. Even before that,
even I was, I was feeling the narroling down process. Yeah,
I mean even when we you know, um, before climax,
all the climax, it was kind I was smart enough
to know, and I don't know how I got this

(29:58):
knowledge that the girls had to be certain kind of
girls in order for Radio Disject with the DJs to
play all music, right, So I was looking for sexy,
I was looking for femininity. I was looking for girls
who can play, and you know, and we had a camaradie,
so you know. First it was Um Cooley, who I
found from another band and she was playing with a

(30:21):
band with her boyfriend and I talked her into joining us.
And then it was Lynn Malsby. They came, A lot
of them came. It was a paper called the Recycler. Well,
you could put an ad in for twenty five dollars
or however much, and then people would respond to and call, hey,
I played guitar, you know. Then we had Jennie Cunningham

(30:41):
was the first guitar player. Then came show Coolie actually,
and then how we arrived at the climax that we
are now. It was shown first and then it came um.
Lynn came in throughout audition. I believe she came in
from the recycling paper, um um. Then there were the
couple of other girls in the group who I knew

(31:02):
from Compton, who I eventually um how can I say?
I eventually let them go and I found new girls.
Joy Soby didn't come into the group until after our
first album, and we had a contract side. We already
had a recording deal when she came into the group.
Because I fired I fired the bass player. Now why
I fired the base player, I can't exactly remember the reason.

(31:25):
It was a conger player and a bass player got
good of them because for some reason or another, and
Mr Griffin came to me. He goes, on, this was
after you guys want to get to that point. No, no,
we take your time, take your time, love stories, stories
you never told before. So yeah, I mean, did Mr
Griffy you know me and do Mr Griffy? I loved him.

(31:46):
He was a wonderful, wonderful gentleman. And I mean yeah,
I mean to me, I don't know anybody else's experience,
but he gave me my first opportunity as a writer
a producer. And you know, without him, I would not
be talking to the quest slut. Okay, bottom bottom line, Okay,
this man would not Only that, he would take us

(32:07):
out to dinner and teach us about wine and my
my first taste at escargo. He was a wonderful guy.
He would call me up and talk to me about
the band. He was a wonderful guy. And he called
me up. He goes, you know, why did you fire
the bass player? I really loved the base I thought
the basse player was cool. And I go, well, because
of this reason, he goes, what are we gonna do now?

(32:27):
So we talked about it and he said, hey, I
remember this girl, uh and say of you know North Carolina,
who keeps you know, kept giving me, yeah, who kept
giving me a tape, who kept giving me a tape
and all these things. And I go. He goes, I'm
gonna bring her out here, and I want you to
let me know what you think. So I said, okay.
He brought her out. See, she seemed cool. Everything was good.

(32:48):
You know, she played the basse. He came to rehearsals.
She was a nice girl. Everything was cool. He says,
what do you think? I said, can we just try
her out for a little while. He goes, no, we
need to move forward. We got the contract. I can't.
We gotta get somebody stable in the group. So that's
how Joyce Soapie got signed. Yeah, yes, sir, did you

(33:09):
know that fante? Oh yeah, oh yeah. When I was
a kid. Now, when I was a kid, I mean
I don't know her from Fairville. I was like five,
but yeah, but I remember like all the stations around,
uh the station we just listened to when I lived
with my grandparents, black in Robinson County. They would always
like when they played climax joints, they would shout out
Joyce and they was like shout out yeah, she got

(33:33):
mad love. Yeah. Yeah. Then and then Lorena came in
one day from a rehearsal. She was on our way
to by word of Mount. Someone said, hey, they're looking
for a lead vocalist. She came in and blew me away,
and she got hired. She got hired on the spot,
and she became the voice of Climax. Is it always okay? Now?
I mentioned that you you know, you said you fired

(33:54):
the bass player. But because it's such a rare, it's
such a rare to get fired is such a harsh word.
Let's just say it didn't blend in with the concept. Okay,
so I fired, But I just was there always a
concern or fear that if you let a member go

(34:15):
the amount of work that you gotta put in to
find someone that really fits a very specific criteria that
will make the band work, Like, is that always concerned?
We were young? I was young. I didn't you didn't
think about those kind of things when you're young. But
you know, um, I just I don't know. I wasn't
thinking about that. It's just the concept. It just wasn't

(34:36):
blending in. Uh, And I didn't think about it. I
just was like, it's not working, and then Mr Griffith
was like, well, what are we gonna do now? You know,
if we figured it out, did you start to develop
your own band rules as you go? Oh, we had rules, Yes,
we had rules. Come on, Burnie, give me. I know
I'm a good one. You guys are asking me that

(34:58):
I gotta think way back. I mean, you know stuff
like you know, you know X amount of dollars and
fifty two dollars five dollars and get the bed rehear
so late. You know, you know, you know you're fine,
you were fine. You know, you know we this is
pre joyce because that's another um you know um at

(35:19):
the original band, which was Lorena Um Sure Cooley, Lynn
mas B, Robin Grider and myself we struggled. We were
such a unit. We were so dedicated in the vision
and trying to achieve this recording deal. You know, we
we starved. I was kissing the the the rehearsal studio owner,

(35:42):
trying to get more studio time. We will do whatever
we needed to jail. These lyrics are okay, we got
just just just a kisser, get you more, alright, a
kiss this two hours and day? Okay, I get it.

(36:12):
That they were really pecks. They were. Yeah, it was
the older Cancel guy, Mr Cooper, Mr Cooper, and um,
you know, uh yeah, I don't know how that evolved.
I don't know how that happened. One day he just said, hey,
you know, and I was okay, can we get some
studio time? Sometimes you got to you two pecks got

(36:38):
is four hours? Okay? Wait, you you mentioned uh the
legendary uh President Solar Dick Griffy. Can you can you
describe because I also know that, um, those nightclubs, like
the Total Experience Nightclub and all those spots that are

(37:01):
in Crinshaw was rather legendary for a lot of those
developing acts. Could you basically describe what like Black l
A nightlife was as far as like seeing bands and
interacting with other bands and just in general, like I

(37:22):
came up in a time my time period of l A,
pretty much the center of all the action was in
West Hollywood on Sunset, which I was told that was
never happening like before, Like where you had to go.
So if you're if it is two, where am I

(37:43):
going to see? Like the bands I like? And where
y'all hanging at? Wow? If you're not on Sunset Boulevard,
like a where they opened to black people then back then,
or I'm sitting here trying to search the name of
this club that was in Compton. It was a club
that Easy In Them performed in and they showed it

(38:04):
on their the movie in the beginning. Yeah, I can't
remember the name of that club, but you know I
popped in it here and there. There wasn't any particular clubs.
I think the Roxy. Every once in a while you
get a good deal, a band happening, and like a
West Hollywood. Let me think, I'm trying to think where
where did we go? But were you part of the

(38:27):
Total Experience nightclub? Or was that like more of a
seventy mid seventies things. It was the seventies and eighties,
But I was just kind of like, you know, into
my my thing. I didn't really do a going, a
lot of going. I wish I did go to the
Total Experience. I saw, you know, I saw the Dramatics,
So the Dramatics experience. Yeah, and then, um, how big
is that nightclub? It was? It was a nice size,

(38:50):
maybe about five people so established acts was that the
House of the Blues, The House of the Blues was
that sort of the House of Blues of its day
us It was okay, so no act was too big
or too small. You can see Rufus and Shaka Khan
at the total experience and then Maverick flaps okay, remember that. Yeah.
People used to go there dance. Every once in a

(39:11):
while there will be a band or two, you know. Yeah,
and then you know you went to the forum, and
then you went to the the all the who was
it the San Diego Jazz Festival? That was that was
the thing I used to enjoy going to sing. So
how how did the deal with so our records come

(39:32):
to be? How did you get the attention of Griffy? A?
We did a um, we did a demo, and the
demo was sent to many record labels, and one of
the labels was Solar Records, and um, the ladies there,
um Margaret Nash. Margaret Nash got a hold of them demo,

(39:55):
went to Mr Griffy. She was, what's the guy I
could think I can see cleaning now. She was Johnny
Nash's ex wife. She she worked that Solar. So she
went to Dick Griffy and said, hey, you gotta you
gotta hear about these girls. You gotta see these girls,
you know, you gotta check it out. She came down
to rehearsals, so Ice went back into a dick with me.

(40:18):
Next thing we know, did GRIFFI was walking into rehearsals.
I see he walked in and he said he looked,
he saw a good playing Oh there we freaking god.
Oh dad, he was smiling. He left and he says
before he left, he says, I'm gonna sign your girls
for a record deal. That's it. You were fine with that? Like, so,

(40:41):
are seem like a logical spot for you to? Um? Yeah,
no one else was asking, you know, and it was
the first thing. And that's what our attorney said, Hey,
not the best deal in the world. What other deal
do you have? You know, you get in, you make
it happen, which is the famous one screeening you you
get in, you make it happen. Mon Sweeney was your lawyer. Yes,

(41:02):
we were his first client. Yeah, legendary Wine Sweeney. Okay,
Legendary win Sweeney. And um, he said, what else do
you have? He said, you get in, you get a
hit record, and you think you make changes when that happens, renegotiate.
Then was easy. Was it easy to renegotiate with Griffen
once we got a hit? Yeah? I mean I just

(41:27):
not not that I'm fishing for stories, but it's just
just like depending on who comes on our show, there's
various degrees of Dick Griffey stories. And she said stories.
I guess I could say that I'm led to believe
that he was sort of like the be proto Sugar

(41:47):
Night of his day. He broom Sugar was his bodyguard.
That's how I mettioned night Sul used to be big
with his bodyguard and no missing. You know, listen, I
don't know if anyone else's experience, you know, with mistrgraphy,
I can. I can just tell you that he was
kind to me, and he was kind to us, you know,

(42:09):
I mean, we get this or that. I don't. I'm
not quite sure, but he he um, he was there.
We were at every meeting. We talked about things, we
discussed them in all pause. When we did it, he
didn't want to do it it first, you know, he said,
I ended up doing this song about mental pause and
then men men all pauls a mental Paul the Lord.
He gets real complicated. Yes, my mom too, thought you

(42:31):
guys were thinking about mental menopause. What's so? Did he that? Like?
Do you not know what the pun is? People? Particularly
so did he? Actually we broke it down and I
was saying, no, it's the men all paused. When I
walked into the room, he started smiling. Next thing, you
know that the record was on the album when the

(42:52):
when in the beginning and it became our first hit.
We didn't even know it because by that time, you know,
there was a couple of failed albums. We were trying
to figure out what we were going to do with
the next phase of our life. You know, we were
telling I'm going to go back to school. Can I wait?
I don't want to glide by these two records because
it's two portant one important factor with you guys working

(43:15):
with Jimmy and Terry. But what I want to know is,
you know of the acts that were on the label,
between Lakeside and and Midnight Star, Carry Lucas, the Whispers
and whatnot, they like the common the common factor or

(43:35):
the common denominator of most of those acts that were
hit makers of so Are was the production of Leon
Silver's and I was shocked. I came aboard on meeting
in the ladies room. And then eventually I found out
that you guys had two other records, and then I
wouldn't brought those. And you know, I saw like Otis

(43:55):
Stokes and you know, the cats from from Lakeside, and
I always wanted to know, like, why didn't you guys
work with Leon Silver's who was clearly giving everyone out,
you know, handing out hits like hotcakes. At the time,
Leon didn't want to work with us, and it could

(44:16):
be because he was so busy, you know, or he
didn't really express an interest in working with us. You know,
I'm sure something probably I'm not quite you I didn't
ask them, you know, I don't know if I'm sure
I asked them. You know, um, I don't think he
you know, we passed him every day we saw him

(44:37):
in the studio. He didn't really have an express an
interest and wanting to work with us. So he brought
in an oldest steps which was like looking at what
O this? And then was cool, but it just wasn't
the direction that we wanted to go in. We were
more independent. We were young girls, but we were like
really independent and fund Oh just kind of wanted to

(44:58):
put us in the box of you know, uh, your
typical I'm your woman and you're my man, and I'll
do whatever you want me to do kind of thing.
And we were like, now we don't really you know,
I'm not doing that. I'm not gonna do that. So,
you know, it took us a while. It didn't take use.
It took us. We had to get with Jimmy and
Terry to find a voice. That's when we found our voice.

(45:20):
They encouraged that. So can you describe what um working
with Jimmy and Terry, what you know and like for
for the second album, The Girls will Be Girls record
some really like great songs on there that just never
really got the push. And I'm kind of glad. I'm glad,
kind of glad because it wasn't us, you know. Yeah, yeah,

(45:41):
well you know up until Jimmy, did you have my
Jimmy and Terry, Yes, yeah, no, they came in with UM.
They didn't do Girls were good. That was that was
all the stocks. Well, I'm at the album. I know
that they wrote wild girls, right, Okay, that's when they
came in. And they came in they were sneaking away

(46:03):
from Frience and they were like you know. It was
all they were do you know, to do us. So
we were the first fan and I think they worked
with either I saw the sand I really don't remember technically. First. Yeah,
we were in the room when Prince called the fired him.
He found out they were working with us. He called
them up and they came out the room. They said,

(46:25):
we just got fired. Well, up, I guess we can
start our new career now, you know. But yes, yes
and up. No. Hey, it was wonderful. It was like
a breath of fresh air because here are these guys
who praised the mistakes. Okay, no, no, we're gonna keep that.
It's a mistake. We're gonna keep it, you know. And

(46:47):
I was the one who was always writing songs, and
they fell in love with all my songs and were like,
let's do burning their Cooper songs, you know, telling Dick
you should be doing these songs. These are the songs
you should be doing. Because all of the I know
I'm looking good, that's the way we used to talk
on a daily base. I walked into the studio, I
know I'm looking good, you know, And they wanted to

(47:08):
put all of that on too. Take is that that's
what they started doing. They were taking a lot of
my songs and putting on on the tape and encouraging
us to write the things that we really feel and
we really love. M hm. So that's what they did.
That's good. So when we got introduced to y'all, we
was getting introduced to y'all for real. Everybody else who
thought they knew y'all when when that bucker came out

(47:30):
with meeting in the latest flemental pause, I mean, because
we kind of went to school with wild girls, that
was I mean, that was u um, Terry Lewis, that
was them kind of experimenting with us, trying to help
us find our sounds, and they got it. It's just
getting hit, that's all, you know. But by the time

(47:51):
they moved on and Dick was he was, he was available.
His ears were available at that time to listen to
the things that we really had because l a um,
Jimmy he keeps it Jimmy jamm and Terry Lewis encouraged
him to open his ears and listen to the tracks
that I was writing and the other girls were writing,
and he was open to it. So we were giving him.

(48:12):
He just kind of gave us free rein you guys
go do this album yourself. By that time, were you
there for the infamous U Jam tells the story about
the I asked about a certain engineer that they had
to fire because of them destroying the Heartbreaker UH song there.

(48:36):
It was like a punch and during the mixdown, Uh,
the engineer had erase like one of them I'm such
a mess thing and then they just fell down a
rabbit hole of trying to fix the edit that was
previously erased. No, I don't remember that, Okay, you you
never knew that story. I wrote the song and I

(48:56):
was there, but I don't remember that story. Okay. Yeah, Basically,
like one of the I'm such a mess lines got Heartbreaker,
I'm such a mess uh on the Heartbreaker song, the
the engineer was trying to punch in make an edit
and accidentally erase some of the background and yeah and yeah, Jam,

(49:21):
I was asking about like a time when things went awry,
and he just talked about accidentally erasing like some of
the background vocals on Heartbreaker and then trying to fix it.
It's yeah, Well they fired the engineer, and I guess
they kept that from you guys. So now you know,

(49:41):
forty years later. Sorry, but um, with with meeting in
the ladies room? Well, first of all, just as the
band Dynamics one, how did you whittle it down to
the six members that we got to know on meeting
in the ladies room through you know, um being in

(50:04):
the band. You have the girls, and certain things happened.
I think they were went down from it was eight
and then it went down to sex and that's the
group that you know. Now. There were two other members.
I can't remember why they left the group or why
they weren't involved in the group anymore, but it was
a decision that was made and then we were left

(50:24):
with the six core members of the group. And I
think that was the reason for our success. So I
think it would have been successful with those other two
members or any other members. Now, I think it was
these are the ones who were meant to be so
move forward, did you So? Do you remember the rules
from that point that kept you all together. They kept
you from having like petty arguments, They kept you all

(50:46):
from some of the things that others made. Yeah, well,
you know, well, you know it became that group thing
where you know, the vote, the whole group vote, which
you know, which was very stifling you know, to me
at points, you know, but because um not so well,
I just had more forward ideas and I sometimes you know,

(51:08):
when you have an idea and you see things and
people don't don't see it, then you got everybody kind
of raised in their hands, and that's very stifling for
a creative person, you know. So it was a majority rules.
That's interesting that you had the same hand as everybody else,
because even I mean I even think, I guess that
in the roots, like a mirror hand in a tarekan

(51:28):
is different than other hands, right like, But was it
but that's what I'm asking. Was it a real democracy
or was it like the idea of a democracy? If
it was, okay, let's say that it was all good.
And then when Joyce came in the group, a little
bit of a power struggle started because for whatever reason

(51:49):
she you know, she came from a military base and
she you know, so that's when things kind of started changing.
From the the the group that we had that was
all for one, one for all, things started like everything
became a vote because the the vision, the vision had
gotten interruption, I interrupted, very nice statement, very good, So

(52:13):
it would you say that Joyce was sort of the
because she was the last member to join, kind of
the outsider in a situation where there was already an
established rapport with the five of you. Yes, and she
definitely had her own way of seeing things, you know,
which is not bad in her own opinions. And yeah,
and I was her voice, right and I was always

(52:35):
you know, you know, one for all. We hadn't even
got to a point of an ego yet, you know, um,
we were we were. I was about, Hey, whatever is
good for the group. You know. That's how I lost
control of the name, because you know, Joyce came and
said like, um, I think we should all be a
part of the name of the group. And I was like, sure,
no problem. I wasn't you know, I wasn't savvy. I

(52:57):
wasn't savvy, and I was just kind of like, well,
the band and we're gonna be together. We're gonna make
things work. And that's why the name is still out
of control. You know, right now, I wish I would
have known better and had trademark that, you know. So
could you tell me how your personal life changed. Let's
let's let's say two, let's say three months after men

(53:22):
all pause comes out where you guys with the songs
on the radio killing it and you're on you know,
the videos being played everywhere. And because I don't even
know what men a pause crossed from meeting in the
ladies room, they kind of just they listen, listen. We
were preparing to go back to school. Lorina, you know,
she's always wanted to be married. Everybody was planning in

(53:44):
their life because we Mr Grifford, you know, he stuck
with us through all those Spelled albums. We were all
in the car following each other. I don't know where
we were going, but I think there were two cars
one two, or maybe we're all in the same car.
Mental Pause came on over the Christmas holidays. You know
how everybody goes on break during the Christmas holidays. After

(54:08):
that Christmas holiday Mental Pause, the Mental Pause was ad
and the record coup. He says, you guys got a
hit record. DJs were playing, they were going crazy, and
that's when our lives went when I things changed drastically.
First video, that was the first video. I mean, we
did the Mental Pause first video. Then the Metal Pause came.

(54:29):
Meeting in the lady school and with with Um had um,
Loule Silas put me into the studio and with Harve
A Mote and we remixed the Leader and that's when
I added the you know, I had to leave my
condo to come to this, you know. That's when I
added that, Yeah, and we did. That was the reexed
version that became the big even though it was a

(54:52):
little bit, I mean I was and again, like there
weren't many in depth interview with you guys back then,
I'm certain that there had to been comparisons like, oh,
you guys are like a female time and you're kind
of like a mar state. Was that bothersome to you
or not at all? And Terry used to always call

(55:14):
me they used to compare me because my personality was
such like a Morris Okay. They used to call me
burn to day, you know. And they wanted to write
things where by character because I didn't really know much
about the time, you know, they were just doing the
first time I heard seven seven eleven in the studio, Um,
you know, and I didn't really know much. I couldn't

(55:35):
really pattern myself after him. But after after seeing his character,
how much to be favored in so many ways it
was like that's what the answer of when jiggalos need
love to I wrote jeously yet, but I knew dis Yeah,
devas came from an answer that was like an answer.

(55:56):
You know. I'm in the process right now. I'm working
on the song, hoping to get more wors on it.
I just I just think that would be such a concept.
And he and I have talked to please call him
and tell him. He and I have talked about it.
I've sent them tracks and he's like, man, okay, I
called him up, Morris Morris, So I had this track
that I'm working on right now that I'm gonna send

(56:18):
to him because I just think it's beyond beyond. It's
beyond just a song. It's about being entertained and how
the public would love that. Yeah, a personality from a
girl band and the girl band and the time. Yeah,
that's great. We're opening up the Grammys with that MS.
But I want to ask what you said you're working

(56:39):
on tracks? What equipment and like software you using out
to work on your music. You know, I'm protels and
I write on the MPC X Okay, yeah, yeah, because
I see sixty MPC you know, two thousand, two thousand
X I know the MPC, so I grabbed c X

(57:00):
because there's so much you could do with it, and
I could travel with it, could do vocals on even
though I haven't even used half of it. So I
write a lot of my tracks, which I don't really
like the right tracks that much anymore because I'm lazy,
and you know, I'm always questioning if the right snare
or if you's got a sound right. So I focus
more now on lyrics and melodies and content and vibe.

(57:25):
You know. I just did something with Olsale. Oh wow, okay, yeah, yeah,
called Believe in Us. Dropped it off, dropped it in
on the UK, and I'm focusing on that. So I'm
thinking a lot of tracks from people that I know
or old things that I have. But right now, actually
the track that I'm working on it as an old
Salati track, but I rearranged it, you know, so that

(57:45):
it would fit me and more so I'm working on
concept now. I just think that would be such an
entertaining thing that's gonna happen. That's so yeah, you work
together men, I was a go ahead. That's not about something.
Why did you guys pivot too? Constellation m C A

(58:10):
like were you still technically under the umbrella of Solar
or like or did you officially leave Solar to go
to loose isus and MC it like was no, Solo
Records did a distribution game with him. Okay, I never
knew the story of Yeah, so long we're on Solon
and Solar did the change. We didn't make the change.
We kind of got over there because Solar. You know,

(58:32):
once the success of Meaning in the Ladies Room and
Climax became this big Oh my god, after I k
miss you, it was over. Lynn Masby wrote down by
the way, you know, that's the biggest climax song ever. Um, yeah,
that was that's a big that's a huge. That's all music, baby, okay,
um go to yeah. So she um, you know they

(58:53):
wanted us, So Dick did a jail you know, and
we went over to our constellations. Constellation was just you
know that he made. Yeah, I guess the distribution Okay, yeah,
I didn't know that, so he owned that as well.
I was just gonna ask you dropped two names and
I wanted to know when you circle back and finally

(59:13):
met them, what was it like? And that was Morris
Day in Patrice Russian prince was just a high and
buy and I admire you. It wasn't a deep conversation
like Tina. Yes, a lot of stories, so more. Sometimes
you have to bear with me because I gotta think.
I but Moore's day. You know, I see Moore's day.

(59:36):
We do. We do a lot of touring together. I
see him in and out. And the last time I
saw him, he we were in we were in Florida,
and I would have told myself, we gotta do a
song together. Morris, I said, we got to do it
for the people. That would be such a nice to
think us. I'm cool, send me tracks, all right. So
I sent him a couple of tracks. He was like, man,
you know, but this one's really hot. And even if

(59:58):
it's not, this one, somebody to give us a track.
And we got to do a thing together because that
could be such a great interfication. Lewis have to do this.
There must be a four minute monologue at the end,
trying to talk each other. You know. That's the song
that I'm writing. So you know, we'll see how it

(01:00:18):
comes out. I'm gonna have to reach out to jam
and Lewis and let him kind of hear this, and
maybe somehow, if it's not this, they can come up
with something we gotta do. Let us manifest this. Yes,
I'm gonna leave it up to you quest to make
that happen. The people want it. I want that. I
definitely want that. Yes, that would be so and I

(01:00:39):
envisioned it. I envisioned with the girl band and that's
on one stage and time when they were battle. It
wouldn't that be high? Yes, and burn the jet for
for a couple of pecks. I'll mix it for you
for free. You know what, don't try me. I come

(01:01:01):
out once in a while. Give me some sugar. Steve
Steve Steve is a legendary engineer, gave him the intro.
I'll drum on this ship. I don't want to see
that happen. Yes, I'll do it for free. I'll do
it just for the colt. Yeah. Absolutely, I really believe

(01:01:23):
that in my heart, and by being a so hard
or a visionary I can kind of steal around corner sometimes.
I just think I have always felt that's a very
strong concept and the people would be like, oh my god.
You know it would be great for the demographics as
well as a new generation right. So I'm curious to

(01:01:44):
know with the success of where the climax record was, Um,
the meeting in the ladies room, what was your family's
reaction to it? Was it sort of like, Okay, you
made it, good job, you know what? Questions, Um, I
don't really have a happy story to tell you. And
regarding that, I didn't really have a lot of fact,

(01:02:08):
I didn't have a really good family motivation. I'm very
self motivated. That's kind of beauty. One of the beauties
of my success is I'm very self motivated. I really
didn't have my family behind me. Yeah, Because I also
wonder once you found your voice and people realize it
was so strong and maybe anti with a lot of
these other female singers or groups are singing because somebody else,

(01:02:32):
you know, writing it. Whatever. When how long did it
take for somebody to now tell you to shut up?
You know, I don't know. It's just it's kind of
like I just moved forward and I dont in the noise, right,
So you really persevered throughout all this what I'm saying,
like no family support and a strong female you know,
home mission and lyrics. You know, in the beginning, God,

(01:02:57):
I got some stories I remember when Dick griff you
send me out to UM. There was a woman by
the name of Kat Miller. I did my first song
called beat My Face, and Edrick Griffy is like going
and um uh, I got this girl and then Cat
Miller and I think you would be really really good
without producing hub you know. Um and she's out in Tennessee,

(01:03:18):
so I want you to go to Tennessee and work
on her song. So get the song. Went to Tennessee
and the engineer laughed. He would refuse to work with
me while I was there when I first walked in
the door, but but when but when I left, he
became best friends. I think. I think when people see
the talent, you know, it's kind of like you can't

(01:03:41):
you can't deny the talent. You know, you can't, you know,
And it's kind of like the passion and the talent.
And I know what I'm doing and I enjoy what
I do. So I think once you get ahold of that,
by the end of the session, we were cool. He
respected me. He didn't have it, you know. I would
tell him what to do. He didn't want to do
it it for but by the end of the session

(01:04:01):
he was doing it proudly, you know, So that's ex
did you to be probably in the booth at the
book exactly, So that's moral. That's that's the way my
life has gone, you know, dealing with a male males
in the studio. Whatever I think, when they see the talent,
they become, we become everything becomes really really cool and
they're appreciative to be in my space and I and

(01:04:24):
I enjoyed being in this space. So you're saying that
them offering their two cents of what they think it
should be in getting unsolicited advice where it's not even
asked for. Listen, I have a clear vision, a clear
vision of what I'm doing if I really I know
the way it sounds. Now. My thing has always been,

(01:04:45):
is your vision or if you come up with something
that's better than mine, I'm receptive to it. But if
it's not, you know, I don't really like to compromise.
That was one of the reasons why it was difficult
for me to be in Climax, because I just felt
stifled because the compromising is very difficult for a person who, um,
who was creative. No. Yeah, I just thought about something

(01:05:11):
uh I did read once was Penny Ford in the
original No. Twenty four Lorena Lorena, Lorena was with child. Okay,
she got cles and um, we needed someone to take
her place because we were going on the road. And
during that time, I did not believe um, as the

(01:05:31):
leader of Climax said that was a positive image for
girls that time, at that time, in the eighties, okay,
in the nineties and now now women are doing it.
But I just you know that was that you never
saw that tradition. Yeah, yeah, so, and it was it
didn't seem like we had little young girls. You know,
we're following us, so you know, um, you know, right right, rightfully.

(01:05:55):
So she was married or she you know. But so
Penny was working of Ron Sweeney as a second as
a secretary, and Royn Sweeney was like, you guys really
need to take Penny for what she could sing. So
Penny Ford came in and she blew the house down
and she went on the road. I loved him, okay, Yeah,
we talked all the time. Yeah, you know, she's uh.

(01:06:19):
For those that don't know Penny Um, it's probably best
known as the the voice of a snap, I got
the power yea, and amongst the other things, that you know,
she's been sort of got singing on to mention her too, right,
she wanted sack babies. She was, well, yeah, I think

(01:06:42):
the story was that Shaka Khan was actually supposed to
do I got the power and kind of she admitted
that she dropped the ball. Just told Penny go, I
just did. I just dropped another UK track and with
Penny for It all over it. I love Penny Penny Is.
There's not many vocalists who can sing like Penny for

(01:07:02):
Penny for It. It cuts, it cuts, you know, And
I always think with these female singers, it's not about
what you're capable of doing, is how you make me feel,
you know. And and like a Wreatham made you feel,
you would pull over to the side of the road
when I gotta find me an angel and you would cry. Right,
I'm sure you've had that experience right well, either she

(01:07:24):
made you feel. These singers nowadays, they can sing and
the apparatus is good, but it's about what makes you
feel good. And Penny for that. There's there's a question
I always wanted to know the answer to for the
next album, the self title record, the Climax album, Um,

(01:07:49):
did you guys work with Rod Timperton or did he
just submit the man size love song? We worked with him?
Please tell me what it was like. We're going with
Rod Temperton, you know, um, Carol bear Fager. I remember
it was all after after that the album, everybody was coming,

(01:08:09):
you know, we were going up and smoking a joint
with Carol Bea Sager and you know and all of them,
and um, Rod Temperature had man size level. It should
have been a huge chet that the biggest pop that right,
And he he had his come in because he wanted
to audition who was going to be the lead vocalist
on it. And of course I'm not. I don't consider

(01:08:32):
that myself be this. I was just there, okay. But Joyce,
he didn't want Joyce's no, he wanted Lorena. That's how
ronic considering that Joyce's voice. This his voice is very
um um specialized. It's very Michael Jackson issue. Jackson wouldn't
have been able to sing man size live. I need Mack,

(01:08:55):
you know, you needed a man sized voice. That was
that was the difference between I had my That's that's
what made Climax incredible. And another thing that made Climax
incredible as we all knew our space. We know, I
knew what I brought, but you know, and Joyce knew
what she brought to the you know, Lorena knew what

(01:09:15):
she brought. So it was like we just really step
on each other's toes. We were like, okay, you come
in here with your voice. It was really a cool
thing in the beginning. And Rid Templeton heard Lorena and
He's like, I want that big voice on it. So
he chose he chose Lorena. Was that initially on the
Running Scared soundtrack? Yes? Yes, okay? So? And also I

(01:09:39):
mean you worked with Um Griffy No, Richard Rudolph, Well
he he wrote Man Sized Love with Roy Temperton, right right, Yeah,
I didn't. I didn't see him. I met him later
at Teena Marie's house, but I didn't see him their prosession.
I was gonna say, when you became established, did you

(01:10:00):
did you have a quick like who in the industry
was like your did you have running buddies? Were you
cool with? Like who were your best friends? Like? Who
did you vibe with that were artists? Tina? Let me see,
I would love to say Bette Midler, but that wouldn't
be true. Umh on one song. Yeah, okay, but we

(01:10:27):
want you know, she just loved the song and she
did it. Um let me see who did I hang
out with a lot? Uh? It was Tina Marie mainly Tina,
mainly Tina. I didn't really have a lot of friends.
Please some Tina, please tell us because she has been
gone for so long that please just tell people something

(01:10:47):
about Tina and I don't know how we became. Tina
had a lot of people around her all the time.
You know, she was a people person. So our times
together were very kind of solemn. It was her and I.
She come up to the house, let's go joint and
we talked about life. She was so deep. Tina was
no joke, okay, and we will talk about her, her

(01:11:08):
her past, her life and the things she was going
through in relationships and all of those things like that.
And then one day she called me up. He come
down to the studio. I want you to be on
this record. Okay. I'll be down in in an hour okay.
And then I call it back, Hey, I got this song,
come down. I want you to be on this record. Now.
When I called somebody and go I want you to

(01:11:28):
doing a record. Well, um, it's ten thousand dollars. You know,
my bad people call your people, so you know, um,
further moment, Hey, let's go to Chicago. Okay, you know
by those days you can go buy your ticket at
the counter, right and San Francisco, let's go hang out.

(01:11:48):
You know, it's not a really not a bad stories.
It's just really wonderful memories. I don't want any bad stories.
I wanted to great memories or things that we didn't
you know, because you story so early, we never just
got to know her. She was just, she was just
you know, Tina became my friend before I really went
to any concerts of hers. When I went to go

(01:12:10):
to a concert, I was blown away that this girl
was my friend. All right. I was getting out in
the audience and she got to pay a guitar. She
came out and the people. I didn't realize how massive
Tina Maury was. And then afterwards I said, wow, you're
really something special, right, and we laughed about it and

(01:12:30):
it was it's all good. It was, there's no really
bad stories for me. Gotta be something made about her life,
like she cannot be forgotten. Experien you know, I can't
really share a lot of things, you know, because she's
you know, I can't, you know, but all wonderful memories.
I can't really think of anything that stands out that

(01:12:51):
that I should speak about. I know, I know around
this time, um, you started doing like production work on
your own for other acts, and I gotta know, like
you're the history of you forming Madam X, of which no,
I'm telling you I loved. I was like, ah, not

(01:13:15):
not like why did you give this song away? But
just that type of girl to me could have been
just such a killer, killer, killer climax song. I didn't
why did you get that song away? Oh you didn't
write that? No, I didn't write it until I was
you know, I had moved forward. Okay, Um, so it

(01:13:39):
wasn't like you have that song under your hat before. No,
that was the last minute song that was written by
you know, I was. I was working on the album.
I created the concept in my mind. First of all,
let's talk about the beginning of these three girls, and
I still have a concept right now. I just don't
understand why we don't have a three girls group right now.
I don't get it. Group, man, Why is the only

(01:14:04):
guy's a group with the band. Where's the two guys
and one girl rap group? Where's the female? The female
me goes, I don't get it. I'm not grabbing onto right.
We had a climax. That's a climax when you're talking
about exactly you know, you know. I came up with
this concept of the girls and I didn't even have

(01:14:26):
the group yet, and I met with Sylvia Rohne. Sylvia
Rohne was interested in the concept, so she came down
to out to l A and she met when me,
I told her about the concept, I will do this
and the way I want him to look and this
is how I want him to do. She says, great,
I'm gonna sign it the concept. I said, okay, So
we did the deal with Ron Sweeney and the best

(01:14:48):
negotiator ever. I learned the life on you know and
uh um. Then I started formulating the group. I got
the three girls who were came to be Metal Max
started working on the project, and I needed this last song. Okay,
I mean, okay, it's just I'm listening to the album.

(01:15:09):
I just don't hear. I don't hear a clear big
single and Cornelius Mems bass player. Yeah, okay, Cornelius hit
me up. I got this track. Baby, come on over,
and I'm on you know, I got this thing. Baby,
I think you go dig it. So I'm like, okay,
come on over. I'm at the studio. I'm at studio masters.
He came by. He played this, he played this track

(01:15:32):
which was actually back and he was working on the
song and the song went backwards. Okay, yeah, he was
working on the track and something technically happened and the
song started playing backwards. That's the track. That's just that
type of girls. Steve is gonna talk. Yeah, mistakes, Okay,

(01:15:55):
the best mistakes. Ye shout out to bad engineers man
all over the world on all my songs. Mistakes. I
I don't do I don't do the perfection thing all
the time. You know, if it feels good, it's staying,
you know. But um, so he probably this backwards track
and he says, baby, um you know it was a mistake.
It went backwards, and Dad, I'm like, I love it.

(01:16:17):
I love it. So I took it. I said, lead
me a track, and I chicken and I wrote the lyrics.
I gotta tell you like it's I mean for for
nineteen seven. It was a very unusual sounding song. Very
shocked that it hasn't been sampled or I still DJ.

(01:16:40):
I still played to this day on my DJ sets,
and I'll say that at least thirty of the time
someone will think that I'm playing something like new like
it just it doesn't. It didn't sound like anything that
was in the marketplace at the time. How come that
project was short lived? Like did you manage the fan

(01:17:03):
as well? Lord? You know, you know everybody's equal in
poverty and that that statement comes from Mr did Griffy himself,
who had a chance to visit right the day before
he passed away, and I was able to thank him
my career, okay. And everybody started pulling at these girls

(01:17:24):
when I when I created, you know, and a certain
manager I don't want to say any names, but the
manager came in who I really was told not to
work with. And the next thing, I know, the girls
that went behind the back and signed with this manager.
And Sylvia was not happy with it, and there was
a clash, all right, and things got really out of

(01:17:45):
control and things got crazy, and that's what happened to
Manimax pretty much. And they didn't want to you know,
I'm gonna tell you something. But a lot of women
don't like to do business with other women. A lot
of women don't want other women is telling them what
to do. They would a man tell them the wrong
way than the woman to tell them the right way.
And I'll call that trauma, generational trauma. And I even

(01:18:10):
get that to the state. Women don't want other women
in control of them, you know, and then you want
the man right, they want to manage it. So it
became this thing where they you know, the guys were
pulling them and then you know, I'm gonna get your
solo deal and I just said, go, I'll put another

(01:18:31):
group together, and you know, it became a big It
became a very big misunderstanding and a horrible thing. And
the manager who pulled them away, Um, Sylvia wasn't happen
so happy, happy with it. So it was a it
was a horrible thing. So I tried to go forward
with one of the other members who knows is passed
away but passed away from cancer, which which one passed away?

(01:18:54):
That was god. Um there were Dickie, there was Iris,
and there was a Lisa Alica Alisa Yea, the one
that did the alete. Yeah, they say once again, once again,
I love the beauty of finding your strength, your strength,

(01:19:15):
your strength together. We got a dam because everybody can't
do the same thing. So we had we had Valerie
who was that uh you know that Grace Jones kind
of vibe, you know man that you know, we Iris
who had a more jazzy vibe that we had Alisa
who had sing sing, sing sing, you know, yeah, it's

(01:19:36):
the same sing sing, so um. I tried to do
a project with Alisa, but did the vibe was all gone.
But that's what happened to matter, Max, that's the problem.
There was no that's it. That was it. That's what happened.
What was producing other acts, like a pleasurable experience for you,
like working with Sherylyn and oh l Warrant Yo. You know, look,

(01:20:03):
you know, I'm not even gonna fall down that rabbit hole.
But this is not the first time I've heard that
sort of response. You know, every everything has their stories,
you know, and I have you know what your Lynn.
I enjoyed Sholyn Sholan how to manage you, who just
for whatever reason didn't really take to me. So I
just remember Jerry, Jerry was an engineer. That's where I
first met Jerry Brown. J Brown, he was with Sheryl

(01:20:26):
Lynn and he says, I'm working with you. And then
you know, Pebbles told him he was working with Pebbles,
and Pebbles says either Bernardette or me. He says Bernardette.
So Jerry and I have been together every since, you know.
But that's where so Shery Lynn you got you know,
every every story has a little thing that comes up.
I've heard the stories, you know, people I didn't need

(01:20:49):
people's And when she was dating Howard Hewitt, right, and
I was doing this song called the Empity Sex that
I wrote, which was a big which is a big
voice record, you know, and it once again, I had
specifics of how I wanted that song to be you know, performed,

(01:21:09):
and she had her idea. So you' really had a
big voice though if you know what, if you listen
to the song she did, we did a heck of
a job. That was. She cried and you know how
you came in telling me what I didn't know what
I was doing and but you know, you know, but
I got the best out of her, you know, every

(01:21:29):
every there's been a lot of situations once again the man.
So you're are you? You? Are you demanding when it
comes to your your art and the people that you
work with? Yes, okay, I can respect that demanding in
the sense of I already see when you write the song,
you have a clear vision, right, do you know how

(01:21:51):
the melody goes? You know how it should be, you
know what it should sound like from that perspective, I'm
not mean or difficult, you know, I'm just the man
being on trying to get the best out of you.
I'm just curious if you talked to you. I mean,
it's only a few. I don't want to say it's
a few of your peers. It's a it's a lot
of women behind the scenes making music throughout the years. However,
have there been some peers that you've you've spoken to

(01:22:13):
and had like these similar experiences? Because I'm listening to
you and I'm thinking, I wonder how Missy you know, yeah,
like from her beginnings and earning her respect and then
getting getting telling other women and other men what to
do you know? Missy Missy was probably she came up
with that hip hop world and she was who was

(01:22:33):
her person? Was it? Did he? It? Was back. Yeah.
So when you have what you got Kimberland behind you
ain't much, you know. But I was was by yourself. Yeah,
I was by myself. So what Timberl is saying, Hey,
this is MISSRSI gonna tell you what you do that?
Who are your peers in that way? Then? Burning that? Like?
Who are the other system that been through the the
same thing? I don't know. I don't know. You know

(01:22:55):
what I got the story when I was forming Climax,
I had cely E to be in it. Okay, said
only if a Sheila and Climax rummers, but you know
she wanted to be Yeah, what do you know what
you know? Where she she's bad? Okay, I get my
props to Sheila. Okay, yeah, but that's just a story,

(01:23:16):
nothing bad about it. You don't have to be bad, right,
you know if you guys won't you know, I just
want the good stuff. We don't want to you know,
I got a lot of stories, but I'm just so
like a protective of a lot of people, and I
don't want to say too much. But there's there's a
million stories, all right. So I kind of saved us,

(01:23:44):
not for last, but because I never knew. Even though
I know that that v H one thing was on
the air, I didn't see exactly what went down. But
I do not know. Have you guys, Climax implode it?
Do you guys? You guys, have you got anybody with
that reach and Billboard article about you? About what? Anybody

(01:24:09):
right now? If you want to google it Billboard and
climb actually see what just happened. It just came out. Well,
so it's probably last month. I'll come two months ago.
Um did you hear about Climax being inducted into a
woman's house? Um? Songwriting house of sounds familiar? Okay, we heard,

(01:24:29):
we heard about it too when it was And then
I'll get back to the v H one thing. But
then let me started the v H one thing because
it's a prelude to this, Okay, um, during this particular time.
But yeah, I'm sorry, no, no, I just I want
to know what the straw that was that broke the
camel's back that led to the breakup of the group
or for you to leave, because I know the group

(01:24:50):
went on without you, like good Love and whatever the
other songs were it, but you know what was it
like to leave the band at you started, there was
power struggles and when you is very difficult for individuals
to say and this would be a better place if

(01:25:11):
we were able to do this. I'm jealous of the
fact that I put in an equal amount of work
as you. All right, I've been in this band at
the same time of you. But all people want to
do is focused on burning that Cooper. It's very very
I'm jealous, I'm angry about it, and I'm mad as
how Okay, at that point, we could talk about it
and we can get through it. But what happens with

(01:25:32):
people is they start to knittech, and they start to
get in groups and go against you and all of
those kind of things like that. Um, which makes me,
being from a family of women who who whoever attacked me,
when I'm in the corner, I come out fighting for survival.
So I kind of felt like there was nothing big,

(01:25:53):
major blow uppers fight other than the fact is I
got frustrated with how me to compromise my creativity for
people who really didn't want me to be uh successful
or wanted me to move forward in life past them.
So I made a decision after being I would say

(01:26:17):
that sometimes bullied or feeling bullied that I didn't no
longer want to be in this situation, and there was
the biggest move in my life. But I just asked
you because I wasn't happy and I had to move forward.
That's pretty much it. And I tried to stay, but
it was this particular member in the group was the
treasurer of the group, and I said I would I

(01:26:38):
would stay if we got a real treasure and not
you know, we've gone, we've gotten bigger and this particularly
treasury or the group, I would like the outside treasure.
I'll stay if I get my money and my things individually,
because I don't want this particular person to handle. And
they were like, no, wait, I have a question. So

(01:26:58):
at this point in your career, m H, where there's
platinum singles and YadA, YadA, YadA, you guys are still
operating on that sort of level where like I'll collect
the payment at the end of the gig, like you
don't have a business manager or what we had, but
we had a treasure in the grip and I didn't

(01:27:19):
feel good about this particular situation and I was like, no,
we need to go to another level, because it's about
levels and it's about vision, it's about growth. Everybody doesn't.
Sometimes you just simply I'll grow a situation. That's pretty
much what it is we're claiming. I just simply I'll
grew the situation. It's like a relationship. You're married, Do
you want to go back to your ex wife? No?

(01:27:42):
You know, because you guys are going then you know,
because you about growth the situation, you know, it doesn't
mean anything other than that. But yeah, we were still
operating on that level, and this particular individual ended up
being the problem who's still to this day is collect
thing royalties that we don't know about. Now let's get

(01:28:04):
to the v H one situation. So the group has
disbanded for a while and you know Joyce, you know,
had said, hey, let's get the group back together. No, no, no,
I don't know. I wasn't feeling that if everybody was
gonna make that first move, I felt it it should
be me. So I didn't go forward with that. And
I never got a call from this person at all.
And next day we know she was trying to trademark

(01:28:26):
the name and it got we found out about it
and it stopped it. But um, that's when the v
H one came in, and then after the v H
one story came in in the in the U, when
I saw how people were still very very much focused
on Climax and wanting to do things and shows and
things like that, we we decided to move forward to

(01:28:48):
do some touring. Okay, here we are if you will read,
then we gotta Yeah, I mean I'm reading. The backline
is climb say the name. Don't like the look? Okay,
you want me to say the name? Okay, I won't say. Well,
it's up to hear whether you want to say it.
It's in Biloy. Yeah that was your quote. But you know,

(01:29:15):
so this individual has been doing all these and savory things,
bringing the bringing our brand down to your typical um
band that plays at the local UH food pint for
for five, you know, using the name. So we tried
to get her to stop, and she admitted and she
would stop, and that she would only go out because

(01:29:37):
you know, as sure coolly for formerly a Climax. We
have that on tape, all right. So then I get
a call one day that all of our all of
our publishing an ASCAP and on Ascaps specifically had been changed.
Our publisher split including right Temperton, including a at your people.

(01:30:02):
All the splits, all the splits, all the writers shared
have been changed. And to show Cooley's name. How can
you do that? That's interesting? Nobody knows you turn away
from the farm and listen. Listen. People are not paying.
People just want paying attention, you know. So anyway, let's
move forward. Sony gets involved because they own half of

(01:30:25):
the that publishing from A, so they get involved. There
was Sony an ascap trying to figure out how this
person got in and changed Jimmy Jam's publishing, UM writer
splits Climax, not just us um Roy Temperton, all of

(01:30:45):
these people come on, yeah, sure Cooley. So anyway, moving on.
We called them, I said him a letter. They fixed it.
She changed it back somehow. Then we got we woke
up to wow, Lorena said, Because Lorena and I we
speak all the time. Shout out to Lorina, who's um

(01:31:06):
um recovering from a cancer scare. All right, when we
just did a project together us really good. So um,
Lorena she goes, um, hey, we got you know, look
at this article. In the article, states said Climax. Climax
will be inducted into the women's writing Hall of Fame,
all right, and we were honored. We finally came together

(01:31:28):
as a group as being honored. Oh my god, I
don't you know, we don't get along, but oh my god.
So um um. We waited around, you know, a week
or two. I seen a letter thank you, we're honored,
Lindsay the letter thank you, she always send a wow
no response. Finally, finally we got a hold to the

(01:31:51):
people and they were like, well, we're giving the honor
to RYL. Cooley. So we were like, wait a minute,
wait a minute, wait a minute, waiting, and you know,
in kind wrote a letter No, this climax is group. No,
you have to show us who owns the name. Sul
was telling people that she owned the name and and
apparently this individual who's over this um had some connection

(01:32:15):
with Coolie and she was dead set on giving Cooley
this award. The Coolie does a rights award, right, I
put her name on. I put Coolie's name on Heartbreaker
just because we're in the group. We didn't write nothing.
So but yeah, and it looks like you guys are abandoned, right,

(01:32:35):
and I've been in this situation, suation. The one song
that we did was never undermest rate the power over woman. Sure,
Coolie and I did that, excuse me, the very first song.
But other than that show Coolie is just not a writer.
I'm not saying, you know, she's not a hit writer.
Let's put it like that. And if you look at

(01:32:57):
if you look at all the names. So she she
happily went up to accept this award. Right, So it
was on such a big platform of bill Board being announced.
People were calling me, Hey, congratulations, and I'm like, okay,
So I called bill Board and I'm like, you guys
have to give us a chance to respond to this,

(01:33:18):
because you know it's not right. You know, they didn't
say we're given an award to climb cool of climax.
They said climax. And that's that's a big coming from
so um bill Board. We did, you know, we responded,
We responding in in in um in bill Board, you know,

(01:33:38):
to try to set the record straight, to make people understand.
And also, you know, Billboard grabbed onto that aspep story
because that was a big story with all the changes
being made. So that's it. So I just sent out
to cease and desist and hopefully you know, because she
was intent on going out a climax and the original climate.
You're not the original climate, you know, So let's just

(01:33:59):
hop that we can at least, you know, with the
Truth and Music Act. You can go out and you
can perform. Nobody's trying to stop you, but you gotta
play fair. And playing fair is climax, that's what. Yeah,
are you familiar with that? I wasn't until you said that.
I feel like I should be the Yeah. I think
I heard about this with Dennis at Words. Well, Mary

(01:34:22):
Mary Mary Mary Wilson of the of the Supremes, she
and that she helped to enact that law that Yeah,
if you are in an individual member of a group
that was successful, you have the right to go out
using that name to make a living. Yeah. Yeah, but

(01:34:42):
you have to do the original member, you know. And
and that's why you see so many groups kind of
like you know, going and so many different versions of groups.
You're seeing like a lot of climaxes on the internet.
There's a lot of climaxes on the Internet. I'm trying
to separate that now out and I'm really evolving and

(01:35:02):
to burnon Dead Cooper and putting out music. But you know,
I can't there's synonymous. Burn the Couple is pretty much synonymous.
So I can't escape it. But it is what it is.
There's nothing that can be done about it. Like the
present presents the climatic divas you know. So and when
we go out, you know, climax is much bigger than

(01:35:23):
just Burning That Cooper. Climax is coming with the hits.
So Bernie the Cooper has a whole, the whole another
album drama. According to Burning That Cooper, it's um, it's um,
you know. So yeah, So Joyce is going on with
our concept show. Cool is going out of a concept
and you know, everybody is allowed to do it. And
the main thing is we're doing the hits and people

(01:35:44):
are it's keeping the hits and people's memories. So that's
the way I look at it. I'm not tripping about
it no more. There's just no ex cubes chance in
hell that this can come to a place where you guys,
we'll just I would say never say never, but um,

(01:36:08):
I have a clear vision of where I want to
go with the with the second with the second half
of my life, you know, which includes because when you
go back into the group scenario, it becomes that whole
compromise thing. I don't want to compromise. I don't I
don't want to compromise anymore. My you know, life is short.

(01:36:28):
I want to be able to do it my way
and at the end of the day, go oh, you know,
Frank Sinatra, I did in my way, you know, And
it's kind of like no disrespect, but you know, that's
that's the way I feel about it. And I don't
want to said, you know, a history of history and
everybody has history, and everybody has things they say about
the members of the band and all of that, but

(01:36:49):
I would never um, It's all good, ye have a
great run, we created history. We should be honored, you know.
I don't understand how they could do these why girls
alive and girls and then listen. I was curious. I
was like, the Beyonce ever, come does she know? Because
the whole girl band that she had going on. I
was like, I'm curious if she knew that the girls

(01:37:12):
in the band though, then who play instruments? Okay, that's
what matters, you know, But you know, not to you know,
not to come out of vain or egotistical or any
of those things, because you know, I'm I'm just I'm
pretty even, but I'm cool. I'm cool. I just want
to move forward. And the girls are entitled to use

(01:37:34):
the name. And if anybody is out there and you
go see Climax, teacher and whoever, and if we're all
playing fair and joined the music, you know, because yeah,
so when I'm long gone, that music will still be
going on, you know. Yes, And that's pretty much it's
interview themselves. Yeah, I'm gonna can I ask myself a question? Yes,

(01:38:00):
I'm just playing with the guys. I mean, uh no, no, no,
I'm no, I'm good. I'm just you know, just moving forward.
That's it. We didn't we didn't talk about Drama puting
the Bernie that I'm about to go there, that's question. No.
I was gonna ask when when when you finally got

(01:38:23):
to that came out believe you got to Drama Bernarde
that Cooper, How liberated did you feel and it it
falling on you and like being your own artist, being
your own voice, Oh my gosh, like was it was
it a breath of fresh year or that can that

(01:38:44):
much freedom can also be scary. So for you, what
was it like freedom? You know, it's a jery I
equated very much too. Um, what's happening today even though
a lot of people, I mean, we're able to put
out music freely, you know, put it on you know,
CD baby or whatever and put your music out. But

(01:39:04):
back then it was freedom to me, you know, being
in the band. And you know, probably that's why the
album was such a cool album, because it was my
first taste of freedom. Okay, I fret him because a
lot of people was on that album, Lenny Kravitz, Um, Uh,
there was a uh, Paulino da cost A lot of

(01:39:27):
people played on because Jerry Brown was bringing in all
those major UH musicians. Because as Lenny Kravis and you
went back from the scene of being in California back
in the day, because I know he was a little younger,
but I know he was out and about before he
was supposed to be too. Yeah, I met him through Tina.
He used to hang out the tenas on. You said,
you was gonna give us a Tina story. What have

(01:39:49):
the time they come to me? Slow? I know I
met I met him, you know, through Tuna. He would
hang out of Tena's house. You know, he was there.
He was dating Lisa Bonet at that time. You know,
so I asked him if he would playing. He came
and playing, but he but he didn't immediately got to
deal with Version Records, and he told me he couldn't.

(01:40:09):
He didn't want me to credit him, so you won't
to see his credit on the album. But yeah, he
played on it. He played on Let's be the screen
about it. That's Lenny really funky guitar. Yeah, okay, now
I got to revisit that. Okay, yeah, wait, can you explain? Okay,

(01:40:33):
have the cassette a long long time ago? The Howard
Hughes song, can you like the way that your mind works?
Like how do you even go? Like? What was? I
know that the whole that album elevates your your personality
and even more. But like from the beginning, like who

(01:40:56):
was then? Who conceptualized that record? It's far is really
bringing your character to life? I did? I remember, I
had the free I had the freedom to do that
and taking things from a song by a song by
song bassis and living and looking at what I had
and what I needed, you know to um, yeah, I

(01:41:19):
just took it. You know. I would listen to the
song of Jerry and Nigeria and I did a lot
of that talking about it and conceptualizing what's needed. Oh,
you need something really funky, now, okay, let's need the
street about it. Many Cravis is coming. Okay, what do
I need? I need something about a woman who's just
you know, who's looking for a wealthy man, because that's
the reality of the world. You know, women women love

(01:41:41):
to be um, they love the security. So that's how
how Heal sitcom came out. Yeah, that's how that came up.
There wasn't from experience. It was repurely from you know,
just thinking about what's missing and what's needed. What you
also mentioned, um Loose Silas, who you know, of course

(01:42:01):
has had major success and has left us. But what
was he even like as an executive? Oh my gosh,
lou oh um. Going out on the road with him
the first time. He was our point person who would
take us around to the radio stations and things. And
he got a fixation on Lorena, so you know, uh

(01:42:26):
so we would go out on the road to deal
with that all the time. And he was very very
he had he had great vision and he would have
her head brother dead come and come on down to
the studio. I got a concept and I want you
to um and put a concept on this. I think,
you know, just talk and put the microphone in from you.
He was very good at bringing people together and as

(01:42:47):
a businessman. You know, Lou signed me as he signed
me as a solo artist, so he was wonderful. He
when he was at m c A. He says, you're
one of the first acts I want to sign, and
he signed me. That's what I was gonna say, Like,
I know, like was he more of a suit or
was he really a music guy? Was he was a

(01:43:10):
music guy. He had ideas, he had vision, He knew
how to bring the right people together and in order
to achieve a certain song, a certain um thing on
an album. Because you know, after I did the mental pause,
he says, Okay, you gotta come back with that same
thing or meeting in the latest room, because that was
so popular. That was one of the things that people remember.
I need that same thing on this particular album, meeting

(01:43:33):
in the latest froom. So we went to Lara B
and you turn the mic on and I said, I
had to leave my condo to come to this, you know,
And that's how that happened, probably talking to him, Yeah,
you know exactly wait, how did you How did you
even know? Uh, it's so weird because you know, if

(01:43:56):
you really look at the character that you built, I mean,
it's so it's such a precursor to what hip hop
became ten years later. Like you are probably the first
person I've ever heard name dropped like versace names I've

(01:44:17):
never heard of before that rappers would start just became
their birthright ten years later. And UM, I was fearless.
You have to understand, and I was, and I was
in and I was in too close and they started
sending me close, and UM, I just kind of like

(01:44:39):
I just kind of spoke my mind. I wish I'd
really allowed myself to have. Um, you know, now you
have to be a little bit more results because everybody
is so sensitive and the things that you say. You know,
but that's what age was for, so you don't have
to do you know. You know, I I even think
about it, you know, I even think about my demographics,
what they want to hear from me, you know, they

(01:45:00):
you know, and I don't want to continue and be
a caricature of my old self, you know. So I
was gonna say, do you get tired of having to
turn it on? In a snap like other days where
you just wish like you never had to invent that
character to you know, I'm naturally come a comedian, so

(01:45:22):
I'm always that comes very easy from me. The character
is easy. The character is more easier than me being myself,
you know, y, yeah, I can bring the character. And
I'm much more comfortable on stage than I am anywhere,
you know, so, um, I don't struggle with it at all.
I don't struggle with it. I I'm I'm working on

(01:45:42):
now in the product that you hear me putting out,
it is kind of the the the me, the evolution
of Bernardette Cooper and me who has evolved until the woman,
and kind of like slowing down a little bit so
that I can perform my song was way until you know,
I get older and older my songs to be able

(01:46:04):
to and I wish I could do a song on
an album on Janet Jackson is. I think she would
be good at doing that, so she doesn't have to
get up and do real donation and all those things.
He has a lot to be dancing and all that.
You know, now's the time to kind of slow it
down and go into the new you and your in
your demographics will follow because they they're there too. They're

(01:46:26):
there too. There's a train age, you know. So that's
what I'm doing right now with the projects that I'm
that I'm working on. You know, one more thing, It
just hit me, did you at any point did you
ever consider the the sort of going down the acting

(01:46:47):
lane because you were so charismatic, you know, I never
you should have done movies. You know. I've had many
people come to me. I've even gone to artisans. I flopped.
Oh my god, my mouth won more. It's not for me,
that's what you got the audition. I'm just like, you know, panic,

(01:47:08):
that's for somebody who ahead who has study. I've gone
there and literally literally couldn't read the lines. My mouth
wouldn't move. I was so afraid. I said, this is
not for me. I don't have I don't have up
to get, I don't want to support. But you know
what I have a passion for, and that's coming out.
And here's here's a commercial drop that I'm gonna drop

(01:47:30):
that I'm doing audio books. Yeah, I'm doing fiction and
I'm doing the characters with soundtrack and all of that,
and yeah, yeah, it's really really episodic conventions. It's really
really want to love that transition. Yes, and I love it.
I love it a couple. I love the newest one

(01:47:52):
where I've written I've written several books. I haven't released
him because I'm creating the audio book from these concepts.
But the new one, called The Strokes is coming out
probably in UM. Jerry is mixing the last song UM
probably maybe December, if not December, first of the year.

(01:48:13):
And it's really really cool because I'm I'm looking at
the our demographics and women now being a majority of
the breadwinners. And but we're busy. We're taking the kids
to school, we're going to work, then we gotta get
off to work, and we gotta go pick up the kids,
and we gotta come back home, and then we gotta
cook and get them to bed. We don't have time
to read a book. So these episodic adventures are things

(01:48:35):
you can put in and you can listen to on
your way to soccer practice. You know it called back,
and they're so funny and exciting. The first one is
The Strokes. It's a racial thing about a woman who's
transformed by a white a racist white woman is transformed
or something happens to where she has to be transformed
by a black woman who's in her proximity, and she

(01:48:58):
changes for the best. And and they're all situating into
a nursing home, and you you also get the characters.
And because if you're ever go into a nursing home,
which I've been in a lot of them because I've
been dealing with my grandmother and my mother's health. Um,
there there's some old souls in there, some unresolved souls.
And listen to those people who are ninety years old.

(01:49:20):
They're putting these racist white people in with black people
and there's a lot going on in those songs. But
it's interesting because you learn about the souls and the
things that they've gone through. So this, this this particular um,
this first out of your book kind of explores that
you know that pretty much if you don't take care
and resolve those negative spirits and those spirits and inside

(01:49:43):
of you, now they follow you until the rest of
your life. So that's what this book is about. Yeah, yeah,
it's really I love it. Like, yeah, I've been talking
to I've been you know, I've been talking to some
heavy hitters about it. You know, HarperCollins talk about it. Yeah, Um,

(01:50:06):
Patrick Ovid hot Herpercollege. We've been discussing it for for
a while and it's just so it's such a new concept.
It's not your typical audio book that he doesn't know
what to quite. We're trying to turn it into it
because the beauty of its quest is also the sound
check is available, right, Okay, Okay, Wow. I'm glad to

(01:50:28):
to to know that you're still having dreams and you're
you're you're still manifesting it and the fact that you know,
you you allowed us to, you know, gave us the
honor of being your audience to to really learn of
your story in your history, and thank you, you know,

(01:50:50):
because again, like there there weren't platforms like this when
I was a kid wanting to know of my favorite
groups that I saw on television, and you know, like
if you weren't in right on magazine, it wasn't like
Rolling Stone was going to take the time out to
give you guys the same building that they would give
like the Go Goes or that's exactly exactly. Yeah, absolutely absolutely,

(01:51:13):
But I'm honored Tom to be here reallyan and how
did that you invited me onto your show. This is
like really a cool thing for me. Wow, Well I'm
glad you did it and you know yeah, ladies and gentlemen,
the the the immortal Bernon, that Cooper or on quest
Love Supreme, I thank you very much for coming. Thank you,

(01:51:39):
Sugar Steve and Fin Tikolottle. Why do you have to
say on behalf? Can't we say goodbye for ourselves? Look, dude,
this is my love piece and soul. Dude, Sugar Steve. Yeah,
and I'm paid Bill. You got any last words, Sugar Steve? Yeah.
By anyway, by y'all and we'll see you on the

(01:52:00):
next go round. Yo, what's up? This is Fonte. Make
sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLs
and let us know what you think. Who should be
next to sit down with us? Don't forget to subscribe
to our podcast, all right, m What's Love Supreme is

(01:52:25):
a production of I Heart Radio. Well more podcasts from
my Heart Radio visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Bernadette Cooper