Questlove Supreme: Blondie

Blondie's Deborah Harry and Chris Stein discuss their band's formative years and evolution. They recall the 1970s New York City scene, talk about their hits, and discuss using their platform to bring Hip-Hop culture to the masses. Debbie and Chris also discuss preserving their archives for the Grammy-nominated Blondie: Against The Odds 1974-1982 box set.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Ladies and Gentlemen.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
This is a special Quest Love Supreme, your host Quest
Love here with Sugar Steve. I'll say that our guest
today are the founding Trailblazers and New York legends. Along
with drummer Clin Burke, bassist Lee Fox, guitarist Tommy Kessler,
and keyboardist Matt Kat's Bohen, they ushered in be very

(00:32):
influential punk slash dew wait movement. I know musicians hate
when things get a title. I often cringe when I
hear the neo soul title. But you know this is
too legendary to casually not spot spot on describe what
they represent in the world of music. They to me

(00:53):
are the epitome of cool and the epitome of style
and practically dipping their toe into every genre of music
that defined a movement and a city pop, rock, punk, disco, reggae.
And they're especially noted for being one of the early, early, early,
early co signers of the burgeoning hip hop movement. You know,

(01:18):
there was a period where the first five, depending on
who you ask and how conservative they are, ten maybe
twenty years in which hip hop was hopefully going to
be like a fad that went away, like a flu
that influenza that goes away eventually. But they were one
of the very first to co sign the movement and
really brought it to a wider audience, going as far

(01:42):
as to use the cachet to bring the light projects
like the iconic score to Charlie Ahern's Hip Hop Classic
Wild Style, and also being one of the first people
to introduce hip hop to a worldwide audience. Of course,
the legendary Saturday Night Live episode with the Funky four
plus one that they literally just put their money where

(02:04):
their mouth is. And you know, it's one thing to
just say you're down with a movement, but to really
use your your power, you know, to do so is another.
They're currently celebrating the release of their Mammoth Against the
Odds box set, which basically celebrates the hits, the demos,
and the remixes of their illustrious career over one hundred

(02:26):
and twenty four songs. In awe, this is an honor
to say, please welcome to Quest Left Supreme Chris Stein
and Debriye Harvey of Blondie.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
I'm the only one clapping the day, So just pretend
it's like fifty two billion people.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
That was very very generous.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Thank you, No, you know, it's it's I've been a
massive fan of you guys, you know, and so likewise,
and I have to say, Debbie, thank you very much
for my note. You happen to come on the show.
Oh I'm talking with the tonight show, in which I
was hoping to holler at you for a second before

(03:06):
I went on stage, but I had to do something,
and then by the time I got off stage, you'd
already left, because it's like a very long show that
we shot that day. But I saw the beautiful note
that you left in my dressing room, and I really
appreciate that thing.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Oh, thank you much.

Speaker 5 (03:22):
I meant every word of it, even though there were
some misspellings and scribbles.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
No, I appreciate it. I appreciate that acknowledgement.

Speaker 6 (03:32):
I want to thank christ for your nice notes that
you left me on my recording console.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Whatever.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Steve, you know, I personally, I want to know, first
of all, I really do love the box set, and
as a person that's just starting to think about looking
under the hood of my own career in terms of
you know, looking at artifacts and going through storage units

(04:00):
and all those things. You know, oftentimes you're so present
in the moment you don't realize that the most minuscule
thing you have is going to wind up being history
ten years later.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
You know.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
So in terms of just getting all these artifacts together
and keeping those demos and keeping those tapes and all
that stuff, how what was the process, like how painstaking
was the process and putting this all together?

Speaker 4 (04:30):
Well, it went on over a pretty long period. I
just had all this stuff, you know, when we first
started making money. You know, I always say the model
for the rock star was different back then, or at
least for me, right and Debbie was. We didn't think
about buying Rolexes and Bentley's and shit we wanted to.
We just I bought recording equipment, so I bought guitars,

(04:52):
so I bought I had my own old MCI set up,
you know, the automation whole thing. And I got around
to a bunch of different apartments. We lived in different spaces,
and tapes accumulated along with that, and eventually that stuff
all died and I gave it all the way and stuff,

(05:12):
and I wound up with a garage full of tapes
of State New York, which was where we did the
assault on the tapes.

Speaker 7 (05:22):
Okay, so like what kind of tape like two inch
tapes or everything?

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Everything? Everything? No? No, what? Uh had a lot of
half inch, A lot of two inch, Yeah, a lot
of two inches. I mean I had I wound up
with a complete copy of the Cuckoo record that we
did with Nile and Bernard and now got the whole
thing on like just like two or three tapes because

(05:48):
he was running at seven and a half. You know,
oh really yeah, it was it was economical.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
I was going to say that at the time, like
when did you realize I mean, most artists I know
are not sentimental at all.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
There's a story.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, I mean he's not a musician, but you know,
I consider a historian Don Cornelius in order to save
maybe hundreds hundreds of dollars, would I mean, you know,
when it came time to look through the Soul Training archives,
you know, the staff there was stat to announce to
me that, you know, Don wasn't too sentimental. So you

(06:30):
know this the stage and the lights and the all
the designs of the shows, of the Soul Train show
within you know, the forty year history of it.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
He just had it all destroyed and crushed, crushed and
thrown away.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
And I was like, none of you at all were like,
you know this will be historical one day, like we.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Should save this stuff.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
And you know, at the time, Don was just thinking
like uh uh, storage, storage space is too expensive and
I can't afford it. So I mean oftentimes, you know,
I'll tell new artists now like don't throw away that
concert poster, don't throw away your itinerary, don't throw away
I mean even Prince, Like when Prince passed away, Like

(07:14):
literally anything he wrote on is almost damn near like
five figure worthy in auctions now, like even directions to
the house or or you know, Prince was world famous
for writing. Whoever, the lady of the moment was like
poetry and stuff like you know, thing revealing too much.

(07:35):
But what I'm basically saying is, did you guys realize
in the beginning, like I should save everything, like even
with besides the music, Like are you saving the outfits
and the wardrobes and old posters or ticket stubs or itineraries.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
I got a lot of junk left still, But you know,
I mean you hoard totally. My wife is like, I
can't go in there because it's like freaks me out.
It's so hoarded out the room in the you know,
in the basement where we are. Uh but uh, you know,
there's so many stuff fell by the wayside. I sold
so many damn guitars that I could retire now on

(08:17):
what those things are worth in today's market. You know,
it's just really yeah, it's just crazy.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
I would like to know.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
Well, I asked the both of you'll start with wri
what was your first musical memory.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Oh wow, I know.

Speaker 5 (08:35):
Oh that's it really goes back, doesn't it. I had,
you know, children's records back back then. I had a Victrola,
at least that's what my dad called a Victrola. And
it was in a box, you know, a little suitcase,
and it had a speaker that was attached to the

(08:56):
arm where the you know, where the needle was and
you would just drop it down onto the record. And
so that those were my earliest things. And I think
one of my one of my favorites was a thing,
oddly enough called Little Toot.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, was that a Disney record or enough?

Speaker 5 (09:19):
It was a Disney record.

Speaker 7 (09:22):
It might have been.

Speaker 5 (09:22):
It might have been, but it was a really great
little song that went through a lot of different emotional
interpretations because it told a story of this little tougueboat
and you know, the worthlessness of this little and little
togueboat and how the big togboats always you know, pushed
it around. But then little little too became like the

(09:46):
hero of the day and uh.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
So, basically off the ret nose Reindeer. Where were you born.

Speaker 5 (09:57):
I was born actually in Miami, but I grew up
in Hawthorne, New Jersey, which is just outside of Patterson,
New Jersey. Well, my parents and all my grandparents lived
in Patterson.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Okay, Chris, what was your first musical memory.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Well, I don't really remember locking onto any little kid music.
My first affinity for music started when I was like,
I guess, you know, around ten or eleven, with movie scores,
which was and man, some of those novelty songs, you know,
like the Chipmunks and Purple People Eater and stuff. But

(10:36):
I you know, I don't know how much that moved me,
that stuff. But then I started, you know, like Lawrence
of Arabia's West Side Story. I mean, I I it's
very hard for me to explain to younger people what
a huge cultural touchstone West Side Story was. West Side
Story was as big as the damn Beatles, There's no

(10:57):
question about it. I don't think people people have at
that the nowadays.

Speaker 5 (11:01):
My oh god, my mother got so mad at me
because I took my sister, who is seven years younger
than me to see West Side Story and she almost
had a heart.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
Oh no, you took her.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
You took her to see that?

Speaker 5 (11:14):
Oh no, how could you? But it was fabulous. It
was so wonderful. And you know, Leonard Bernstein was never better.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Really, I was going to say that, I'm currently reading
Little Stephen Stephen van Zant's autobiography, and he too has
an immense obsession with West Side Story and pretty much
described it as the way that you guys did like

(11:41):
when it came out.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
It was.

Speaker 4 (11:43):
Such a huge deal, I know. I mean, you're probably
on your soundtracks that I was praying more obsessed with
Lawrence Arabia soundtrack, MAURICEI alre, you know, great story.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
And the other thing that I listened to a lot
was like the Cowboys Singers, which is you know, Western,
not even country western, it was really Western music and
those were those were great, you know, great songs and
people like Burl Lives and stuff.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
Burl Lives. Yeah, we know she is.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Okay, So now that you you know, declared your love
for Lawrence of Varibia, I gotta ask. You know, it's
important because the very first okay, So, I grew up
in the household with an older sibling who you know,
because of my sisters, because of her school situation. You know,

(12:35):
she was fitting in with her girlfriends what they were
listening to at the time. So you know, she's bringing
in a lot of you know, the classic new wave
and punk stuff or whatever. But the one album that
I remember, even though she had like you know, each
of the and all that stuff, like I remember the
day that she brought Auto American.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
Okay, okay, okay, okay. So now on the orchestral session,
there was a bag one of the bass players played
on the Lawrence of Arabia soundtrack and that so that.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
I was gonna ask, is your obsession because you know
the way that you open up Auto American with the
Europa score.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah, I mean, you know you know that by then
I was at Adito Roda very deep and all this
other stuff, you know, I always had a thing for soundtracks.
I think soundtracks nowadays, that's a whole other topic, are
way over used. Uh They're becoming like laugh tracks, you know,
where they steer your emotions in the direction right of

(13:36):
where whoever, whoever, the committee that wrote the thing, they
think you should be feeling, you know. And then, you know,
gradually I started assimilating the pop music that was around me,
like the locomotion. Everybody loved the locomotion, no matter what,
you know. And you know, this stuff like the Shambra Laws,
I didn't really appreciate till a little later when we

(13:58):
were doing the band. I was kind of like commercial
to me at the time.

Speaker 5 (14:02):
You know, well, I'm older than Chris, and I remember
this thing. I used to listen to radio a lot.
I had a little radio and I always had my
ear right next to the speaker. The speaker was only
at this big and they had a radio thing called
the Hit Parade. Yeah, and all those like crooners and

(14:25):
you know, band singers and stuff like that. There was
a lot of that. It was kind of great, yeah
before yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Then it was And then I went into folk music
of course, you know, because I was fifteen and sixty five,
and by that time I've been playing I've been playing
guitar for since I was twelve, and folk music was it,
and I remember learning how to play house at the
Rising Sun was such a big deal to me, you know.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
So can you describe to me what the New York
nightclub scene was in terms of like the pre punk,
the pre New wave movement, Like if it's seventy four,
if it's seventy three or seventy four, you know, where
are you playing or like where are you hanging out?

Speaker 4 (15:12):
At least well, we met Debbie was doing a show
in a bar, so I don't even I hadn't didn't
go out to many clubs before I was in the
band situation. I mean, Maxis was kind of the first
thing I was going to regularly.

Speaker 5 (15:27):
Mostly it was bars, you know, people just setting up
blah on the floor and bars and stuff. And then
a little bit later on they became officially became clubs,
but initially they were bars, Okay, I.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Mean, well, the stuff that we were involved with was
like Martin Mercer Arts Center came out of the art scene.
I mean Maxis was an art bar, you know, all
those all those guys all those people went on to
be famous, and the art world had tabs Maxes.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
You know, the post Warhol movement or were Andy.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
We know he was always in the middle of everything
for us anyway, for you know, he was just there.
He was a staple.

Speaker 7 (16:12):
I wanted to know.

Speaker 6 (16:13):
Well, they mentioned Maxis Kansas City, and it's hardy not
to think of the Velvet Underground.

Speaker 7 (16:16):
Did you guys see the Velvet Underground play live there?

Speaker 4 (16:19):
I opened up for the Velovet thats when I was seventeen.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
What was that like?

Speaker 4 (16:23):
It was amazing and it was a pivotal moment in
my musical life. It was they were playing in a
place up town called the Gymnasium, which was Andy had
connections to the like these Polish hall people you know
who were in these old world halls, and his place
was was the Gymnasium and also did show this. This

(16:44):
was nineteen sixty seven. I me and my friends all
knew who the Velvets were at that point. And I
had a really close friend who a guy I grew
up with known for fifty years who was working for
Andy at the time. His name Joey Freeman, still my buddy,
and he showed up my house in Brooklyn one afternoon
and he said, listen to the opening band for the

(17:05):
Velvets didn't show up. Do you guys want to do it?
So we took our guitars on the subway and we
went down. It was like up in the West Side,
somewhere in the seventies or so sixties or seventies, and
developers let us use their amps, and Marine took her
let us put her bass from upright, you know, because
she only played it like like a temporary you know,

(17:27):
on its side right. And they were nice and we
played our blues rock set. You know, I don't remember.
I only remember we did you can't judge but book
by its cover, But I don't remember much of the
other stuff, you know, like Rude sixty six, that kind
of joke we were doing. And we were really daunted
because his place was big and echoey and it was
like not there weren't too many people there. But then

(17:49):
the Velvets came on and they took advantage of the echo.
And that was also a life lesson for me, because
you know, the place you're playing in becomes a part
of your sound stem. You know that, you know, unless
you're doing this all the time, and they were awesome
and filled the room and Andy was there. We never
saw him, and somebody came over and said, oh, any

(18:09):
thinks you're great. That was terrific. That was That was
the event, but it was a really wonderful thing.

Speaker 5 (18:16):
I saw them at this place called the Balloon Farm
on Saint Mark's Place and Andy was doing the lights
and Nico was with them that night and it was beautiful.
It was just I mean beautiful visually and in sound wise,

(18:36):
and everything about it was beautiful.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Like I know that you were in separate bands or
can you tell us how the band came to be
as far as you know the official start of Blunde.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
Well, the scene was very incestuous and we all had
mutual friends, though the two of us never met. We
think we both were at Woodstock, but we didn't meet there.
Debbie had a job working for the first head shop
in New York, which was called the head Shop, which
was on East ninth Street, and I remember going in

(19:17):
there the day before shop. It's called the Headshop.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
What is a headshop is a headshot?

Speaker 4 (19:25):
They sell, yeah, bonds and posters and rolling papers and
we'd supply you know, but it was it was where
you've been, you.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Know, dog, I'm I'm sorry, I'm the forty.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
And you know it was it was a little more
clandestine and it wasn't like it was kind of understated
that it was all based on weed consumption.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
I never knew that it was called a headshop.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
Headshop, Yeah, sure, hedshop.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
Well, because where weed where I grew up, it was
always the you know you always uh at the mom
and pop rec good store.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yeah right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
I would assume that the guy also sold we because
you know, just the smell of the record store mixed
with you know, lisol and incense like to try to.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Well, he wouldn't head hups wouldn't back then in the
sixties wouldn't sell weed. They because they were they were
too big a target, you know, they would just sell
the the stuff.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
I got it.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah, so I was. I was in the headgshop the
day before it opened talking to a girl and well,
I know that was us, and we talked to each other.
But three years later, four years later, I guess that
was like sixty nine or sixty or seventy or something
like that. Then you know, everybody knew each other and

(20:45):
I had friends and one of my friends. You know,
a very long story, but a mutual friend said, I
heard about this band is playing called the Stilettos Girls singers,
go see them. And that was Debbie and two other girls.
So that was it.

Speaker 6 (21:02):
Did that band have any any kind of startup or success? Debbie,
you and the other two girls?

Speaker 5 (21:08):
Well yeah, I mean we had a small amount of notoriety.
I suppose an interest. I don't think there was any
real reality as far as you know, a professional career
or you know, recording or anything like that. Everything we did.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Was some stuff with the dolls. We did stuff with
the dolls. Remember later on yeah you guys, you guys
sang back up in a couple of dolls shows.

Speaker 5 (21:32):
So yeah, all right, it was that.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
Eighty two, Yeah, baby, or I think there's a picture.

Speaker 5 (21:38):
Of us at eighty two. Eighty two was another club
that existed sort of in a even darker way than
Max's or CBGB's. It was an old transvestite club from
the nineteen forties.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, it was very gangster.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
It was.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
It was number eighty to the east third Street, I guess,
or something like that something the second first Street, all
the way east and it was in the basement. It was.
That was a great scene. A lot of bands played there,
but we went there. All this stuff went on there,
there's not a lot of okay.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
So one of my favorite kind of underground New York
labels was Private Stock. Well, no, a lot of legendary
records are on there, and especially for hip hoppers, there's
like incredible breakbeats on there. But I gotta know, like,
how did what was it like dealing with Larry Utel.

Speaker 4 (22:40):
Larry had come out of like the brill building scene.
He had been He had been a part of Bell
Records with I think Seymour and yeah, they were all
play partners at one point and then they spliped went
through different ways. Marty Marty foul you know, managed the
Dolls all through their earn hey Day and the first

(23:01):
records and all that stuff before before McLaren picked up
on him, and uh, Larry was you know, it was
kind of a vanity project for him. I mean, I
think his daughter Jody, who was like the press person,
had a better idea what was going on in the
reality of the street and music you know that was

(23:23):
coming out of the streets. Larry was like, you know,
Larry was you know, guy with the open shirt and
the big gold chainer on his back.

Speaker 5 (23:30):
He liked he was friends with you know that that
one Valley.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
Yeah, Frankie Valley was on the label, right, Yeah, that
was their big act. And Peter Lemon Jello, man, you know,
Peter Lemon Jell. Peter Lemon Jello was like this m
R M O R singer, but the girls liked him
because he was like sexy, you know, thing that helps.
And then then they had also on the label.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Which is yeah Walter, Walter h.

Speaker 5 (24:13):
It was an odd place to be for us. It
was very odd and uh, which tried.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
You know, we we live in the time now, which
you know, literally you can create a fully produced and
realized album on your laptop, But what what is the
process of getting a demo? Like, Okay, you're going to
start a band now, I mean at any point are
you guys like, hey, we're just hanging around doing the scene,

(24:45):
or you guys like actively like we were trying to
get a record deal.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
Yeah, I mean that was the goal was to get
the music out. Everybody knew. I mean, we all grew
up with records and records being very important to us,
so that was of course a goal, but in New York,
so there was I don't know, one hundred bands instead
of one hundred thousand bands the way it is now,

(25:10):
you know, so that that made a big difference.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
I always wanted to know this, and I know it's
a captain obvious question, but what was what was the
actual reason why you guys settled on the name Blondie.

Speaker 5 (25:26):
We had been trying to pick out a name, and uh,
I mean, you know, you search for a name, and
we called ourselves the Angel and the Snake for a
few months, and that that was sort of a you know,
it wasn't really it would have been a good name

(25:47):
for nowadays, but at that.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Point for a metal band, yeah maybe, you know.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
Yeah, well we wanted to be a metal band.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
But I don't know if we even had that much
of it. I don't know what we what we wanted
to be anything.

Speaker 5 (26:02):
Well, I was working as a beautician. I was working
in New Jersey as a beautician, and you know, during
a slow hours, you know, we would do each other's hair,
and so one day they did me and I was,
you know, had blonde hair and walking to Chris's house,
you know, it was getting you know, some street noise, Hey, Blondie, Blondie,

(26:25):
and I just said, oh, okay, well that will work.
And that was that.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Okay. I always thought it was a blondie deck would reference.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
Well it became that.

Speaker 4 (26:36):
Yeah, we were aware of that, and you know, and
those guys never bothered us for all all the time.
They never It was never a.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Tough yo like.

Speaker 5 (26:47):
No.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
I mean, there was never any complaints about us commandeering
the name or anything from the comic people.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
You mean that, I thought you meant just. I thought
you meant just in New York. No, everybody, I.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Forget about that ship. We got bothered a lot in
New York.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
To be fair, I did say to the guys, you know,
when when we started getting you know, official attention, that
they should all bleach their hair, you know, and be
like wrestlers, you know, and the guys should all have
blonde hair, and we'd all have blonde hair. But nobody
wanted to do it.

Speaker 7 (27:22):
Just while we're on the name Blondie.

Speaker 6 (27:25):
So by now, of course we all know your name
is Debbie Harry. But people must have been calling you
personally Blondie this whole time. Is that the longest bother
you or is that something that you'd just gotten used to,
or do you say, hey, my name is Debbie, you
know what the band is?

Speaker 7 (27:43):
Blondie.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
Well, I think there was that, you know, kind of
the definition thing. For a while. I didn't mind, especially
being cold Blondie because I had the blonde hair and
you know, basically, you know, I guess little boys get
called that too, you know, hey Blondie, but usually you know,
little girls with my coloring, you know, are cold Blondie

(28:07):
very often. So it didn't really bother me. It did
bother me, you know that we had to sort of
identify ourselves constantly. But I think that you know, you know,
I guess it's something that you you know, you learn, right,
you learn that you have to identify yourself well.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
As I said at the top of the show, people
will often lump you guys in with the punk movement
or the new wave movement. You know, it's kind of
like I didn't necessarily think that you were either, because
for me, at least with the first the first three records,
like from the self titled record to Parallel Lines, you know,

(28:47):
there's there's a heavy sort of post I guess you
could say wall of sound feel in there like in
terms of like a very updated, like an updated kind
of specters thing going on. So for you, was it
always an eye rolling thing? If you know, critics that

(29:09):
obviously weren't on the scene that were like hanging around
to see, Like, was it weird to get type cast
to be part of a movement that really I don't know,
I think between you guys and the police, like even
though you're you're lumped in with this movement, you guys
really weren't that level of punk to me, Like, you
guys were more of a stylish at least my my,

(29:33):
how it.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Looked to me when I was like nine or ten
years old.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
I think, I think, I think the punk form is
much more defined nowadays. And you know, in twenty twenty onward,
you know, you got all these fands, you know, Surpoort
and Amal and the Sniffers and all these guys are
very defined in their punkness, you know. Back I mean
when you think about you know, ustin television and talking

(29:57):
heads and Patty, it was very diverse. That kind of
sounded and it wasn't so. I mean, the Moons were
very much in their own groove of the thing, but
they were they were specifically.

Speaker 5 (30:13):
Them, you know, yeah, I mean there was a rockabillity there,
you know, was the sort of art rock, you.

Speaker 7 (30:18):
Know, blues.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
It was all a punk scene and and incorporated a
lot of different styles of music which you know, we
were actually experimenting with, you know, and trying to pull in,
you know, references that you know sort of befitted a
girl singer and you know, a rock band and and

(30:42):
with you know, attitude. You know, I think for me,
I wanted to be a punk. I felt like I
had enough attitude.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
But the punk definition was very much like a lifestyle
thing way the way a hippie was, you know, it was,
you know, it's like relistic and about do it yourself,
very much about do it yourself too, and you know,
and then there was, uh it was a backlash against
all the real heavy m R stuff that was happening

(31:13):
in the mid seventies there, and that was you know,
above ground you know whatever. You know, these went to
rost pretty you know sedation for us.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
You know at that time.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Socially, who were your peers of that movement? Like were
you friendly with the Ramones and the New York zones?

Speaker 4 (31:35):
We were very close to the Ramones, and the Dolls.
There was kind of there were kind of two camps
at CBS of the art rock people and the pop
rock people, and we were kind of on the pop
rock side, you know. And it was a band called Miami's.
It was band called Fast you know those people. Yeah,

(31:55):
Johnny Heartbreakers were great, bad all that stuff. You know.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
I believe that my band was the third, the second
or the third to last act to play at CBGB's.
I got a note was that nice bathroom always filthy bathroom.

Speaker 4 (32:19):
The bathroom used to be upstairs, and the stage used
to be on the on the left facing facing the stage,
and then it moved to the right, and the bathroom
moved downstairs and got it even worse. It wasn't It
was probably a little less gross when it was upstairs.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Yeah, I see any any fond memories there. I hate
I hate being that person that's like like salivating over
like again, these folklore stories of clubs of your and
you guys are just like whatever.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
We showed up and we played.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
But you know, at any point during that period, did
you know that this was like the zegeist of the scene,
or again, was it just a hey, Thursday night, We're playing.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
Yeah, no, we were pretty much in the moment, you know.
And what I always I also say, is everybody, every
single person I knew, would say, this is New York
is so horrible. I just got to get out of here.
I can't stand it anymore. But nobody left. And there's
this great mood Red monologue where he talks about how

(33:23):
awful it is in New York for him, but how
much more uncomfortable he is everywhere else. So that that
was that pretty much. But yeah, I mean lots of
crazy shit went down at Steevie's all the time, accidents too.

Speaker 5 (33:38):
It was you know, well it went through stages, you know,
stages of development because it wasn't like a full on,
you know, big club scene from the start. You know,
it was a bike of bar with you know, some
you know Bowery guys, you know Alki's and stuff that
hung out at this bar. And then for some reason

(34:01):
Hilly you know, started having music, and you know, I
have suspicions about you know, there used to be a club,
a club restaurant on Ninth Street, right off of Sixth
Avenue between fifth and sixth, and it was called Hilly's.

(34:22):
I somehow think that Hilly was involved with that, and
he had.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
A couple of bars. Yeah, I think he had one
that was like downstairs from Trudy Heller's too at one point.

Speaker 5 (34:32):
Oh really yeah wow.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
Yeah, yeah, he had a couple of bars around town
and he and he was a single role, so he
had he had a country single on the jukebox in
CB that I don't really hear people talking about too much.
I don't remember what it was, but it was there.

Speaker 7 (34:49):
New York is.

Speaker 5 (34:49):
Great for clubs, you know, I mean it's always been
that way. It's great.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
How often is the rotation?

Speaker 3 (34:56):
I know that for me in Philadelphia there's really only
at least for the roots, like maybe if you're lucky,
there's like six clubs to play, because we also had
like you know, five or six major colleges there, so
you know where you play at University of Penn, play
at Temple play. You know, you would just go to
where the colleges were. But as far as rotation is concerned.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
Well, there was a there was a thing where if
you played at Max's, you shouldn't play at Seb's the
next weekend. Yeah, that's to like wait a week. But
there were other little bars. It was like Rudby Charlie's
and a place called the Mushroom and that Monty Python
Bar and all these little things. With my mother's my others.
Was a tourney right across from the Chelsea there was

(35:42):
my father's place was up in Long Island City that
you know, stuff would come and go.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
I would assume that, you know, by the time, at
least by the time you guys get to Chrysalis that
you know, you're not you're no longer a like a
local rock band, and you're also doing national and yeah,
going out of state and whatnot.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
So yeah, all that stuff went on, but it was
still the you know. The other thing people may not
get nowadays is what a goddamn wild West show the
music industry was the touring touring in those days. It
was now it's so slick, you know, your live nation
all this stuff, you know, boom you go there.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
I was gonna say, yeah, was there something as a
rider like okay, okay, because I ask each act to
do this for me because I truly want to know,
you know. And the thing you mentioned at the top
about the rolexes and all that stuff, Yes, I'm in
I'm in the hip hop generation, especially the first generation
of like post hype William videos where around ninety four,
I would say that, yes, like even coming into the game,

(36:46):
like we came into the game with two tour buses
and a really good rider and Musilix and like, you know,
like where's my where's the you know, the where's the
manicurist at like that sort of.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
So fucking we were in a fucking we did a
tour in Australia. We were we were in like a
school bus man that was like a let me know,
old school with like it was filled with dust. You know.
We had we and we had like a an America.
When we went on the tour with Iggy and Bowie,
we were in an r V, which is like really

(37:22):
crappy and falling apart. I remember too, So all that
kind of stuff was was yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
All right, so let's skip to skip the parallel lines.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Can you walk me through the process, Like okay, so
the idea of like tour buses and good hotel lodging,
like at what at what point does that even happen
or is that something that was just invented in the nineties, Like.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
Yeah, I'm gonna go with nineties because we had some man.
It was you know, it was a lot of.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
We briefly, we we lived for these nerds.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Story says, don't don't think you're like sparing us by,
like you don't want to hear about the time when
but we store store our lunch meat or something.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
We never had. We never flew private. There was just
no such thing. But briefly, I remember there was like
ten minutes when we was Chip Gordon. There was like
in Europe. We had a little four seater jet for
a couple of publicity dates. But that was like you know,
two flights or something like that. We went on the Concord.

(38:27):
We were on the We were on the Concord a
bunch of times.

Speaker 7 (38:31):
That was.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
That was nice.

Speaker 5 (38:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
I was going to say, Shepp is one of my
closest friends, and what time does he enter managing the band.

Speaker 5 (38:41):
Like the late seventies early eighties.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah, yeah, so he was there for Parallel Lines.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
No, no, no, that was that was each of the beat.

Speaker 5 (38:53):
It was the very end. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Well Auto American, I know he was there.

Speaker 4 (38:58):
For An American and the Hunter, which was you know successful.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
Yeah, the Auto American platinum plaque is hanging up above
the guest bedroom. So nice you guys Teddy Pendergrass and
Luther Vandro's records.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Like, uh.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
When I stay at his house and his guest room.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
So with with parallel lines at least, which you know
many consider that to be like you're your your your
super breakthrough with it. Can you talk about the making
of Harder Class AKA once I had a love and
bringing that forth?

Speaker 4 (39:37):
Well, it was it was all about the getting the
rolling rhythm machine hooked up with this, the rolling whatever
that held. I can't remember I should.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Know this, but was there mid back in the day.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
No, it was. It was all voltage, voltage controlled, you know. Okay,
so it was pre MIDI and that was such a
huge deal. That's where the whole the whole song was
built up on the synth being to the rhythm machine
and everything was built around that. You know. We had
the we had the cords, some stuff in the structure

(40:09):
somewhat you know, very.

Speaker 5 (40:11):
Time consuming, very time consumer.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
Yes, I mean going in with Chapman was great. I
mean Chapman was a master and he was at the
peak of his game, and we were also at the
peak of analog too. It was the high point of
fucking analog you know he had he had the one
the digital REAVERB. I guess it's not don't know, even
Tide or whatever it is. He had that one unit.

(40:34):
But everything else was just like that. And I'm glad
we got to be there at that moment too. But
Chapman was great. He was like going in with George Martin.
For us, it was like a whole you know, he
was like the extra member of the band. It was
just it was fantastic and we all, you know, he
beat the heck out of us. But it was great.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
I was going to ask with because the thing is
is that, you know, Heart of Glass was even more
than even more than Miss You. I feel like hearder
Glass is like the perfect, perfect dance song that's not
blatantly a disco song. And not to say that Miss
You by the Rolling Stones was a blatant Yeah, people
seem to consider anything with four on the floor to

(41:14):
be disco, but always wanted to know obviously there there
had to been some sort of conscious decision like okay,
let's make something accessible.

Speaker 4 (41:25):
We always had like graph for work. We were referencing
graph work.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Oh okay, that was it.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
Not so much disco music.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
But I always wanted to know the like for such
a song that that has such a steady four in
the fourth pace. Why was there a decision to make
the last bridge into seven to eight meter which I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
If that was an accident or not. I mean, Chapman
would Chapman would edit fucking slice the two inch tape
with a fucking razor, which is kind of unheard of.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
No, you guys were playing, which one is that one
little section?

Speaker 4 (42:06):
I can't, I can't. I mean, I'm sure if you
asked everybody, everybody will have a different opinion. Why that
came about, Whether it was accidental or not, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
You know, hearder Glass seems very accessible to play at
a jam session. But there's always that moment right after
the last There's always that moment right on the course
where I'm looking at the people like, wait, are we
are we about to do to the level.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
We're going to do the seventy part.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
We're just going to act like the beginning, the beginning,
and then it's always a car crash.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
That's very gratifying.

Speaker 5 (42:40):
It made it worthwhile.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
The drums are all the drums are all pieced together
the way a disco record, the bass drums recorded by itself?
Uh you know the kid? Yeah yeah, recorded by itself,
you know, yeah, it was that. That was the only
song like that. That was the only one who was
done like that.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
What was the logic behind that? A better mixed to it?

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Mike had done some kind of disco music again, maybe
be able to bring out the kick a little more.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Oh, okay, okay, I see that.

Speaker 5 (43:09):
I think it was his ears, you know, I mean
that's he had. He had those ears.

Speaker 7 (43:15):
You know what studio was this? Parallel lines?

Speaker 5 (43:19):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Power station?

Speaker 5 (43:20):
Right?

Speaker 4 (43:20):
Power station? Or or plant? Record plant? Record plant or
power station.

Speaker 6 (43:27):
Yeah, at the time of Parallel Lines. And and now
I guess also do you do you which do you
enjoy more?

Speaker 7 (43:36):
Playing live? We're making records.

Speaker 4 (43:38):
I like recording. I'm a recording guy always. I'm not
I'm not doing a tour, but that's mostly because of
health stuff. But you know, they got to replacement for
me lately. But I think Debbie probably both maybe I don't.
She gets off on doing the shows a lot. I mean,
I like to doing the shows. I always love doing
the shows. But I just I've been doing recording ever

(43:59):
since I was a little kid man, I was screwing
around with you know, old wall and sack reel to
real recorders and stuff like that, and I would always
have a TA four track that if I could beg
borrow or steal. So, I mean, that was just part
of my life, is doing recording. I love the laptop,
digital stuff, go sit in logic for hours and tweaking stuff.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Does the music creative decisions start with the two of you?
Or is it an actual democracy in which it's it's
the six of you?

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Sort of?

Speaker 4 (44:37):
You know, it's a monarchic democracy.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
So aggressive, Yeah, I mean, what do you guys think? Okay,
this is what we're gonna do.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
So yeah, I mean I always managed to get up
a lot of by that time we had been I
mean I okay, So the only song that we before
we recorded it, I knew it was going to be
a hit as tight as High, I mean the other ones,
I really didn't. I wasn't sure, but I knew if
we could pull up a decent recording of Titus High

(45:13):
that it was, it would be successful.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Were you a fan of the Paragon's original or.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
Yeah, the original? Yes, the originalist Godhead and probably the
only reggae song I ever heard that as a violin
in it from that period, which is amat so the
horn lines are based on the violin line.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
This is we have to figure out.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
There's about nine mammoth songs in E minor that that
come out in uh you know the first the first
half of nineteen eighty nine Mammoth Dance Floor of Rockers
in in E minor. I will ask this much, was

(45:54):
was good Times that much of an influential song that
it's almost like was it unavoidable? Because you know, when
I asked some of these people, when I when I
ask you know, the other artists question, someone will say, like,
you know, like sometimes you just so consciously go there
without purposely trying to go there, whereas like you know,
Brian may may confirm or may not confirm that another

(46:17):
one by the Dust was exactly what's our version of
good Times?

Speaker 4 (46:20):
Yeah, No, rapture was totally homage to shake, Okay, No,
I just wanted to know there no question about it.
I was totally thinking of that the whole The baselines
is the first thing that came up.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Yeah, that was that was an extremely that was an
extreme radical thing to do, like you know, of all
the songs in your catalog.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
That was super super risky. Could you just talk about
how does hip hop reach you as a New Yorker, Like,
were you aware of what was happening in the Bronx
or yeah?

Speaker 4 (46:56):
We No, I really wasn't that aware. We'd heard rappers
to lie, you know, on the radio, a couple of things.
But then we hooked up with Freddy and Freddie I
guess it was seventy seven took us up to this
event at a police athletic league up in the Bronx,
and that was that was like just this eye opening experience.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
You know, it was wait, what year did you meet? Five? Five? Freddy?

Speaker 4 (47:20):
Probably seventy six or seven?

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Oh damn, okay, long time ago.

Speaker 4 (47:26):
Yeah, I mean I've gone over the date with him
trying to figure out what did what day, what year
that was, and he thinks seventy seventh was who When
we went up to this thing.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
One of my all time well, I won't say great
punishment stories. Was kind of like a fistfight that almost
got into with my cousin because you know, at this
point it's it's, uh, the summer of nineteen eighty one
and he's singing like, we're we're I don't know where

(47:57):
we're coming from. We were coming from like my grandmom's house,
us walking from the corner store and going back home.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
And he's singing to himself and he's like, you know.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
Any in my mother, fast as fast, fast as fast,
fast as fast, that's as cool.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
And I was like, wait, why do you repeat that
three times?

Speaker 3 (48:16):
And he's like, because that's how the song goes, flashes fast, flashes, fast,
flashes fast.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
I said, no, it doesn't, she says.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
And so basically, my cousin never heard of Rapture, and
I never heard of the Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on
the Wheels of Steel, which, for hip hop historians is
basically the first time that the world is hearing what

(48:43):
cutting and scratching is. Like, you know, Grandmaster Flash goes
in the studio and he does his seven minute open
format demonstration of the records of the day, you know,
takes Cheeks, good Times and Apache and and Rapture and
you know, just just the part songs of the moment
and does a demonstration of what scratching is. You know,

(49:04):
because for most hip hop records, you know, you'd have
to get a band get keithleb Blanc or whatever to
redo the breaks and whatnot because technology wasn't there yet,
and so you know, of course I'm my level of
know it all snobbery, you know, I'm so angered. Like

(49:25):
he then knew he could get my goat, so he
would just sing it like anytime he just want to
fuck with me, he'd just be like fastest, fast flashest,
fast flashes, fast, flash and flash, and then.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
We just you know, and then you know, we got
put on punishment.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
So you know at the time, like for you, were
you shocked at the reception? Were you nervous about it?
Or for you was it just like this might be
filler on the album, or like, yo, this shit's gonna
go to number one.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Frankie Kroch or was it ma major components in that.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I forgot that's it.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
It goes to Paradise Garage, it's going to Frankie Crocker,
then it's going to the world.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Okay, he was.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
He was a big supporter, and then we were eternally grateful.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Yeah, man, at that moment, did you realize you were
seeing a revolution at the time or was it just
like no, because.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
You know, it's funny what you said earlier about being
a fan, because I talked I was up there with
all these record company guys and people on the inside
of the industry, and nine percent of them all said, Oh,
it's it's a fad, it's going to go away.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
Said they said that. They said that about punk too,
you know, that was their favorite thing to say, you know.
And and the other thing was, so you know when kissed,
when every time that there was a technological advancement or
you know update, you know, say ah, you know, it's
not going to last. It was that was a big

(50:56):
thing to say, it's not going to last.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
One of the first thing I did when I started
working here at at thirty Rock, which, of course you
know where the Tonight Show is and SNL and all
these like legendary shows. There's a giant database system that's
hooked up to all of our computers. So any episode
of SNL I want to watch, what like, you can't
get it on YouTube, but I can sit here for

(51:20):
days go through the archives. How hard was it for
you guys to actually broker that deal so that the
Funky four plus one gets on.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
The real hard aspect of the Funkies being on the show,
was trying to get them.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
To scratch and yeah, I was going to say.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
I couldn't get it done. And even it was a
moment when they even got a limousine and sent through
them uptown to get a cable. You know, that didn't work.
They just couldn't get it done. They went onto a
tape and then they also went on the crawl at
the end of the sh oh you know under the
credits right it still but you know, I'm a sure

(52:04):
Rock is still by many considered the first female rapper,
you know.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
So yeah, well now that that that to me was
a credible co sign because you know, they were, to
me like the epitome. And you know, the fact that
you didn't see female mcs that much and and and
they could have been like, hey, go with someone to
go with flashing them or go with the sugar Hill Gang.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
And the fact that you guys saw that.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
We were buddies with those guys. I hung out with
Rodney for many years, you.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Know, legnend Darry Rodney.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Yeah, so get into it. So, how how did you
meet with Charlie Ahern and uh, your involvement with Wild Style.
Are you shocked at all? That suddenly not even suddenly,
well I'll say that a good fifteen years after you
create these tracks, that suddenly, like they they do become

(53:02):
sort of like a staple of hip hop culture at least,
like us using those breaks for real, not just for
the purpose of Yeah no.

Speaker 4 (53:09):
No, no, no, I'm shocked. I mean I I what I
what I did was aware of when I told Charlie
at the time was you know, as soon as this
thing comes out, there's gonna be one hundred Hollywood movies
like this, and like Beets Street was like immediately there after,
like a bigger budget version, you know, but uh now
it was. It was great. It was just all people

(53:31):
that we worked with. It was part of the TV
Party emailue, that whole thing, you know. I mean think
I think Lenny plays drums on some of that stuff.
He was in the TV Party orchestra.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
I was gonna say, who's who's the other the Blondie
guys are not playing on that.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
Right, No, it's no, It's just I came into the
studio with my old Roland synth guitar and put tracks
on top of what was already had been recorded, which
was space and drums and then Freddie did like those
sound effects of like like razors and all kinds of
weird stuff that he did. So the drums I might

(54:05):
be lending. I'm not sure. You got to ask Charlie
on this. I never you know, I never got together
with I did that. I did those tracks with Kaz,
and I only met Kaz like three years ago for
the first time, you know, really yeah, yeah, oh wow.
And that one track that I did with Kaz, I

(54:26):
tried to sink synthesizers up to the scratching by just
taking the line out of the one of the out
of the out of the scratching track and hitting the
putting it into the voltage controlled input of the SIN.
So that actually is happening on I don't even know
if that's been done sin. It's a little chaotic.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Yeah, I was about to say, that's very primitive level
of uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Of making that stuff. Who who has the master tapes
to those sessions, Charlie.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
I guess he's in control that whole thing. I might have.
I might have copies up in the tapes. I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Yeah, I was about to say, down by law, it
might be like one all time.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
Everybody, everybody gravitated towards that, and it was so smart
that they pressed up vinyls and gave them out to
the people who were doing the shows that were being filmed, right,
they all gravitated towards that one track too.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
I was going to say, like, how many copies of
those instrumentals were made initially?

Speaker 4 (55:33):
I don't know, twenty to fifty.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Maybe, oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
So then you know it's been repressed and be released
on like a white label thing that's like simulates the
I mean, I had guys I would go to the UK,
I would go I had guys come up to me
and beg me for copies the originally.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Yeah, you know, I think like they reprinted them at
least the instrumentals, like uh, you know, around like nine four.
So yeah, but for the longest, you know, I couldn't
find any of those things.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
And it was the basketball throwdown sequence is like the
greatest goddamn thing to this. It's it's so it's never
been done since, you know, and they did a lot
of takes to get that, but it's you know, you
can find it on YouTube. It's just awesome.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Hey, uh, dev I wanted to ask about your your
first solo Alley Uh working with now.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
You did? Uh backfired and cuckoo cuckoo. Yes.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Could you talk about the process of making it, like
had you always wanted to do your own solo stuff?

Speaker 5 (56:44):
Or oh, well, I think it became apparent. You know
that we, you know, I guess, had divergent interests, you know,
with the blondie format and as you know in the

(57:05):
record industry, as you well probably know that, you know
a lot of times the labels reject you know, you're changing.
And you know, Chris and I were, you know, we
liked a lot of different things, and we especially liked
Chic you know, we liked Nile and Bernard and uh

(57:28):
Donna Summer. So you know, I guess we just got
to know. I got to know Nile a little bit.
Bernard was a little more quiet. Nile was I was
out there, you know, he was very social and yeah. Yeah,
So one.

Speaker 4 (57:48):
Of the first times we met him, he was going
on about how much he loved EVO, which was you know,
and he said to this day he says he was
didn't know much about rap music and that we were
the ones who introduced him. So I that seems strange
to me.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
That he's the proprietor of right.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's that's that's a common
story where you know, when he was alive, I'd always
tease Prince about the fact that, you know, Prince Prince
is very is a very famous uh lurker on the internet.
You know, would often kind of irol proverbial irol whenever

(58:29):
I talked about, you know, his diamonds and pearls gangster
rap period, you know, with the gun mic and all
that stuff, and you know, I would tell him all
the time that you were actually more hip hop when
before you were wrapping on purpose, you know what I mean,
because everything about him was you know, was that it

(58:50):
was you know, he's drum programming, he was ghost writing,
you know, he was making up his own groups and
had aliases like everything that was hip hop, even down
to like the women that he chose and marketed, like
all that was that was the blueprint that hip hop
built itself upon, you know what I'm saying. And so

(59:13):
oftentimes I just find it weird that the second that
he becomes aware of hip hop, then that's sort of
like that's where it got weird. But he was to
me on hip hop before he sort of became aware
of it. So you're telling the story of now rogers
like really not being into it even though the irony

(59:35):
of the good times thing? Can you speak upon like
the circumstances after eighty two and the band wanting to
take a break. Was it just because you guys were
just on a ten year stretch by that point you
just needed.

Speaker 4 (59:50):
Up on drugs. I got really sick. I had this
lung protracted illness, just all kinds of crap. What's going on?
You know, our finances went to shit. We've got you know,
we were got victimized in a lot of places. You
found out this account we had the two years we
made the most money, didn't pay our taxes, just trying

(01:00:12):
to get us at the tax shelters. So ke, Yeah,
it's just a standard show business bullshit, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
You know at this point when you're celebrating, uh, your
entire history, Like for you, what's the what's the biggest
lesson that you've learned?

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
Oh geez, well there's a lot, you know, just relax
for yourself, don't trust anybody, you know, just the basic stuff.
And it's all gonna sound so cliche.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
We we love cliches on the show, like because to me,
it's about the creative process, but it's also about you
know what, what have you learned in hindsight?

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
I mean, I just love the fact that you saved
all those demos. Yeah, I for one wasn't too sentimental
with the demo. I was smart enough to not throw
them away. But now it's I'm going through the painstaking
process of just going through trash bin after trash beIN
after it because I know, like in ten years, I'm
gonna have to, yeah, make some make some sort of

(01:01:15):
sense of it. So can you just talk about the
process of finding these things?

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
And that was long and arduous, you know. I just
we did the the last Blendy album we had at
the Magic Shop and Steve There, you know the place
where Bowie did Black Star, you know, his last He
did his last two records there, and phenomenal amount of
stuff came out of that place, and so we really

(01:01:40):
liked the last band to record there. And Steve there
has the record tape salvaging company also, you know, he
bakes the tapes and all that stuff, so that that
was easy. We just I just I turned it over
to him. And our manager Tommy over other thing. And

(01:02:01):
you know, I would get these millions of little fragments
on dropbox and listens of stuff and go, yeah, it's
school whatever, et cetera.

Speaker 6 (01:02:11):
So, Chris, what was like the coolest thing that you
found in the archives person you know, like personally to you,
where you were, where you were excited about what you found.

Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
Did we have a version of the of Moonlight Drive
by the Doors that we recorded in the studio while
we were doing either the first or second album, which
is really great, But they whoever was sitting in the
control room didn't hit record at the top of the song,
so they they did a job. They did a good

(01:02:44):
job coming in afters after the first movement. But and
it's you know that I don't know that I was
aware that that existed even but that's out there.

Speaker 7 (01:02:57):
Well, and that's on the box set.

Speaker 4 (01:02:59):
Yeah, that's on the box. Yeah, it's a very cool thing.

Speaker 7 (01:03:02):
Did you fade it in on the box set or
did you just started?

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
It starts? It starts with some drums, but you know,
it misses the whole little intro section, first first verse. Yeah, yeah,
fired him.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
It's cool though, Yo, could you briefly talk about so
one point, you guys were gonna work with Georgio Moroder.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
Yeah, well, Georgio didn't want to put up with the
band bullshit and all the ego mania and us having
to play things one hundred times to get it right
and all that stuff. He's like, he just wants to
go in there and get it done.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Want and done.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
So you're saying that your your process is more meticulous
in terms of like wanting to do because you guys
are super tight as a band.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
I was going to ask, like.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
No, no, I it's quite the opposite. The opposite we were.
We were sloppy and we'd have to go over ship
a lot to get it done. I mean by you know,
after a while. By now people have their skills honed.
But in the early blondie days it was pretty funky.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
Well I mean, you know, I mean the way that
you execute it call me at least, uh, you know,
I you guys were air tight by then, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
So yeah, but call me. Call Me has a lot
of Georgia's session guys on it, as well as the band,
you know, I mean, Clem's on there for sure. Okay,
I'm not even one hundred percent on who's what in
that track?

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
Okay, I see, but I do want to know in closing,
just where are you now as far as like creativity
is concerned and still well, we just.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
Finished the twelfth record with John Congleton and that was
that's very exciting. It's a little it's it's a little
more raw than the previous one. I'm listening to the
mixes coming back. It's great. I'm excited to get it
out in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
When when you uh, when do you propose that that
will be? Uh, next year?

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
Next year?

Speaker 6 (01:05:05):
Okay, I have a final question question you don't mind? Yes,
it's it's kind of I ask a lot of people
from your generation, especially that their vinyl record collections from
from your past, you still have your your.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
I still haven't, but I don't I you know, I'm
happy to listen to digital stuff at this point that
you know, it's like digital. I do a lot of
photography still, and I'm not going to go back to film,
if you know. I mean, I like film. It's nice,
but it's also kind of it's kind of like a fetish.

Speaker 7 (01:05:40):
But you still have returned, Yeah, but.

Speaker 4 (01:05:44):
I haven't put anything on it in ten years or whatever.
You know. Yeah, you guys appear.

Speaker 7 (01:05:50):
Sorry, Steve. It's nice that he still has his collection.
You know a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
Yeah, no, I got playing stuff. I got Charles Manson's record,
I get the first pressing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Really yeah, Okay, what.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
Was I watched? I was just watching some dumb TV
show and they closed with a Charles Manson song? What
the heck was that? I can't remember? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
But for you, okay, So for you, what's what's in
your your top five records of all time?

Speaker 4 (01:06:19):
Oh? Man, well that's a lot. You know what John
Faye is?

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
I know John Fay.

Speaker 4 (01:06:25):
Yeah, John Fay like superhero me. I saw him play
and talked to him briefly. Top five beyond that, just
you know, standard stuff, what you consider, you know, bowl
your records? Like I was at Studio fifty four and

(01:06:46):
when James Brown did have a double Yeah I saw
I saw one of those shows.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
It's funny you say that for James Brown fans, I
will personally say that the thing that I mind most
about James Brown is that he doesn't know mediocrity.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
So either either he will be.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
The the the height of perfection or it's it's the
worst shit ever.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
And as a kid. As a kid, I.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Remember saving like seeing James Brown live at Studio fifty four,
and you know, this is when I'm first starting to
discover breakbeats and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
So I was like, oh, man, look at the cover.
He's sweating. It's going to be real good. I brought
it home and I was like, ah, this is the worst.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
So I was one. I was at one of those shows.
I don't know if it was the one that are
on the record, but they kind of remember it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Yeah, Live and fifty four. Well, you know, Chris, I
want to thank you. We we had a technical difficulty
and we lost and.

Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
She fell out. She got lost in the ether. But
any anyone want to get together and bullshit, I'm be
happy to also my pleasure.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Yes, definitely, you're You're a legend and I appreciate us.
So on behalf of Sugar Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
And I'm paid bill in my ear and fan take
a lott.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
This is Quest Love of Quest Love Supreme, and thank
you Chris and Debbie for going over your history with
us and we really appreciate it and we will see
you next time the next go round of Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
All right, West Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
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