Carlos Santana

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Question Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
What happened to the role call? Yo? Yeah, okay, latency
has has done never mind never mind imagine fallon. Yes

(00:20):
we are, ladies and gentlemen, let me let me attest
that is the yeah, I'm declaring. It is the year
of the miracles. And I wanted this platform, this Question
Love Supreme platform, so that not you know, not only

(00:42):
the people, for myself. I wanted to receive the holy
scrolls of wisdom from the gods. And let me just say,
be careful for what you ask for, because I will
declare today on you know this recording that my God
is definitely a god of abundance, as this year is

(01:04):
clearly shown He's delivered to us uh today one of
the most influential creatives in music, not a music god,
not a veteran, not no, just absolutely one of the
most unique influential creatives and music. And it's super super

(01:25):
super rare that we get to speak to someone with
with with over five decades of excellence under their belt,
no exception. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Quest
Left Supreme. The one and only Carlos Humberto Santana. Yes, right,

(01:56):
how are you? I should also not, OK, only I
dig into the comments on on our various platforms on
YouTube and on I G and Twitter and whatnot, and um,
I noticed that whenever we have an ax master or
an ax god or just any other instrumental god that's

(02:18):
not drum related. Um, I don't go that deep into
their craft. And I will admit that I am. I'm
not that well versed in asking super deep questions in
terms of guitarists. So that said, this is a rare
Uh now we're we're a six m uh once again. Um,

(02:42):
we have Laya with us, we have Fontagelo, we have
Sugar Steve unpaid Bill, and I decided last minute to
ask my guitars from the roots. Uh, I'm super cap here. Yeah.

(03:02):
I wanted the captain here just so that I don't
leave any stone on turn because you know, when we
have Pat and Fanny on the show, or even when
we had Jack White Cats asked me like how can
we ask him about like type of strings he used
or that like sort of the jargon that I wouldn't
know to ask. I wanted to make sure that you
know we we satisfy you nerds. So that's that's also

(03:23):
welcome also, Captain Kirk to the to the podcast. Okay, actually, Steve,
do you do you want to start with your question first?
Oh well, I narrowed down my thousand questions to two,
but they don't really belong at the top of the interview.
But if you want, I can guess Steve's real first
question was hilarious to be and uh no, we're not

(03:47):
going to ask that. I will say that you mean
to do the joke? Yeah, let me try, let me
try it. Go ahead, Steve, And it's only a joke
because your your career is so long and distinguished that, um,
you don't have to explain it job to say it.
So what was it like to work with Rob Thomas? Anyway?

(04:11):
So time out on a new record that joined bang it?
I know, I know this, I know we we love
him or just just sant that that was our first thing.
But we start, we start from the top. And actually
normally I asked about your origins, but I always wanted
to know this the answer to this question. The first

(04:34):
hour of your morning, what do you do? Oh well,
let's enjoy it. And I want to be here with
all of you all. And the first thing that the
first thing that I do before my feet touched the ground,
I uh, I totally connect ignite gratitude because I understand

(04:56):
completely that everything that I love about John Coltrane, people
that I love, love you know, with supreme and impeccable integrity.
There's uh, there's there's grace and graces. Um. It's like
my angelist said, grace is all around us, but we're
the one who have to get in it, you know.
And so for me, you can access and utilize grace,

(05:20):
which with grace you can create miracles and blessings and
do the impossible. Uh. I want to access grace every morning.
So the first thing that I do, I make my
mind in my heart be a thousand percent with gratitude.
Thank you for my next breath, thank you for my wife.
You know, I love drummers so much. I married. Yes, yes,

(05:48):
you know, but I mean again, the main main thing
for me is those two components, grace and gratitude. With
that you can actually create the impossible. You know, you
can make the embastis were tangible, you know. And so
once you understand that what Shamans and people like Jesus
and Shamans. They could create alchemy from wine to from

(06:12):
white to from water to wine. Well, the alchemy that
we musicians, you know, uh, we make people happy because
most people are not happy unless they're miserable. And so
we rescue people from themselves by sound. Resting his vibration,
a melody and the rhythm makes people believe that they

(06:32):
also are worthy to receive directly from God, you know,
so we get rid of the wretched center stuff. You
get rid of that that, you know, unworthy of Gud's grace.
We get rid of that. You know, when we playing
music and we invite people to claim your divinity, it's
not Oregon, it's not cynical. It's imperative that you claim

(06:55):
your divinity so you can get close to John Coltrane
and A and Herbie and the genius genius genius. Yeah,
because that's what they did. I knew that was the answer,
and I wanted to give you all a preview of
what I'm gonna be like in about five years from now. Yeah,

(07:20):
that's no. You know what, UM because especially the period
after the period after the third alt the third record,
especially starting with UM with like the Caravanserai, the album

(07:43):
I don't know. For for me, I felt the need
to ask you that only because because there's such a
spiritual element to those runs, that run of records between
seventy two and seventy eight, that you know, I felt
my heart that you know, you're more closer to two.

(08:05):
I should have introduced you as a shaman more than
just musician or or that sort of thing. Because in
that gratitude, what does that look like, Carlos, Like is
that meditation? Is that just a moment just to sit?
And what gratitude? To me, it looks like where I
live now. I mean I live in Las Vegas, but

(08:25):
I also live it in Kauai. And gratitude. It's a
rainbow talking to me. This. There's so many rainbows in Kauai,
and they're specifically the ones that are so loud they go,
they're hum this this rainbow are so alive they hum.

(08:48):
And I was watching one earlier, earlier this year, and
and like it tapped me on the shoulder, like turned around,
and because I was turned around, like oh this this
this rainbow as clear as I can see your face
and this rainbow goes you see me? And I said, yeah,
I see you. He says, you know who I am.

(09:10):
He says, yeah, your God, and he goes, that's right.
And you know what that says. What he says, I'm
looking at you too. That's that's grace. That's grace, you know,
because all of us need to be validated, you know,
everyone in this planet needs to be validated and celebrated
because God created this in his image, you know. So

(09:33):
I I'm very very grateful that you I forerbe this
platform because the things that I love most in this planet,
besides the connection with a supreme being, is spirituality, sinseuality,
and African music. That's it, you know, because all three
of them offer me adored to totality and in completeness

(09:57):
and infinity. You know, you know when you play as
solo and gravity disappears and time disappears and you go
into this zone the basketball players call it the zone,
it's called grace, called grace. When you get into that
grace and you you know, you don't even remember what
you did after you played it, that's what real musicians

(10:18):
gotta turn the other musicians who'll be posting and captain
and giving and shocking and giving. You know, no, no, no, no, no,
look man, you can do better than that. Go deeper
and access that thing that you're beyond time when when
you every time you listen to a John Coltrane, I
Love Supreme. I played this music and every hotel that

(10:42):
I get into why to clean whatever happened the night before, Yeah,
whatever whatever happened, whatever they did. I put a Love
Supreme a lot of some instance that I got from
Alice Coltrane, and that room is mine when I got
Sonic stage, Yeah, it purifies John Coltrane's music. Is Uh,

(11:05):
if they would play this on CNN, the world would
not be so infected with fear and separation. Dude. But
but you know, not already here's the thing, right, yeah,
damn not not to totally all right this this platform
was meant to like review someone's history. But I gotta

(11:28):
stay here for just a little bit longer, only only
because the reason why I was excited to talk to
you is because, like I'm slowly starting my transformation into
what they called doing the work, you know, like the
pandemic forced us to do the work. And I was
like in a really really dark place where I wasn't

(11:50):
enjoying my creativity. I was squandering it and It took
not working last year for me to actually you know,
like previously, if you if you were to say this
to me in two thousand and eighteen, I would quickly
be like orang group chat with them, like okay, you know,

(12:11):
like when people just think like spiritual people are crazy whatever.
But it's like I had I had a moment where
you know, this is I'm just a year into this
where everything that you're saying, I absolutely believe, Like you
gotta wake up, you gotta wake up in gratitude, you
gotta meditate in the morning. Things I used to laugh at.

(12:32):
And you know I tell people all the time like
I'm literally morphing to the human being. I used to
laugh at because for some reason, you know, I guess
when you're when you're most Black people in America, especially
like my generation, like church is more of like an
oppressive religious organism, like they never teach spirituality. And I'm

(12:56):
just learning that now, like at this stage of my life,
the second stage of my life, and you know, it's
really good. I'm I'm I'm I'm happy to get talked
to talk to a musician that basically uses their their
their art for that because you know, you can clearly
here like I hear the work of Coltrane and and

(13:21):
that spirituality in in your work. And you know, I
always wanted to know, like how how did Clive and
especially like Walter yet nikof how do they receive you?
Because normally with with with uh you know, other label heads,
it's either like handing my hits or you know, you

(13:42):
could dropped from the label and you gotta go elsewhere
and whatnot. And yet like Columbia sat by you for
the for the longest and so they and they let
you find your spirituality. So I was always curious as
to how how you were allowed to explore those things
and not sort of succumbed to the pressure. I mean

(14:04):
they were occasional disco moments in seventy eight and whatnot.
But you know, like was it was it hard navigating
the spirituality that you have and also you know, remaining
a brand name musician in terms of being a product
and being spiritual at the same time, it wasn't hard

(14:25):
at all for me because uh, I'm used this that
as a child, and this is for me. It's a
way of life. It's not a profession. It's not a
gig or a job. It's it's a way of life.
We started with the Beatrolla the records, the eight track
that says the CDs. You know, those two me are
like faucets is the water. Music is the water, the

(14:47):
living water. So Clide Davis, Bill Graham and Clyde Davis
when they met me, they realized that I wasn't pedestrian,
that I wasn't necessarily the deestrian guy, and what do
what do I mean by that? Well, pedestrian guy kind
of they settled for you dangle money and they kind

(15:09):
of jump over like a little poodle do you jump
over things? And and they realized that was priceless. Me
is committing career suicide. I'm gonna go after John Coltrane,
Weather Report, Miles Davis and they said, but man, there's
over the Miles Davis and Weather Report or whatever. I know.

(15:30):
But I need to learn something from them and and
teach the youngsters this because I can't just constantly keep
doing all. You come a buy and abracis in or
supernatural or whatever you know. By the grace of God again,
I'm able to reach the four corners of the world,
in touch many people's hearts, and you know, like Tony
Williams says, once you sell one record, you're commercial because

(15:52):
you sold one record, you know. So I don't. I
don't look at like being commercial like a negative thing.
I I look at pretty much life the way the
ones that I love and I adore, like Arthur Ash,
Bruce Lee and Coltrane. People who Bruce Lee be like
water and cloud and a cloud and ocean, a lake, bathtub.

(16:15):
You know. So what does that mean? It means that
you have the capacity to be a multidimensional spirit that
can play anywhere with anyone in compliment. So when I
go to Africa, they know who I am. When I
go to Ireland, they know who I am. When I
go to Japan or New Zealand, they know who I am.
And they know who I am because they play our
music in their living room with Grandma, Grandpa and the

(16:38):
little kids. Man, you know. And that's when you enter
a whole other real of like wow, I go to
Paris and the gentleman who's helping us with the luggage
and whatever, he says, Santana, I go Hi, he says,
and then he points, He says, he points that, just
tell me goes. My wife, Sophia A bigger pardon, So, Sophia,

(17:02):
you know she she got pregnant. My wife got pregnant.
When we're listening to your album, you know, like Sambo,
so you know, and I get that all over the world.
So it means that your music resident sound vibration is
able to impregnate not only women, but men to believe

(17:22):
that they can achieve beyond what religious books or or
institutions or governments told them to do. You're at the
more you are a multidimensional being. Let me say it
really clearly like this, you cannot behave appropriately unless you
perceived correctly. Once you perceive. One more time, you cannot

(17:46):
behave appropriately unless you perceived correctly. Once you perceive, you
are a beam of light that comes from the mind
of God. You carry yourself differently. Where does all this
come from? I mean, I know, at some point of
mayor you're gonna go, well, let's start at the beginning,

(18:08):
but I am so you know, I don't even want
to start the interview yet town to keep going. But seriously,
where did this Where did this light come from? What
was it a day? Was it a moment like or
was it a week, a month, a study? Where? Where

(18:28):
does it come from, Like, where was the moment from
being thirsty? You know, I'm always thirsty for adventure and
I'm not afraid of the unknown or unpredictability. I knew
that that my first band, with the first three albums,
we knew that it was fragmented and how people want
to do journeys and people want to do something else
and whatever. And so I started reading do You around

(18:52):
the Book and listen to Coltrane only so so I
listened to the Around the Book. Later on I got
in to do this to j who text books and
I'll show you what they are. And also and also
a course in miracles. All these all these books that
are going to introduce you to they have what you
call nowadays spiritual data and how to transform your monkey

(19:15):
nous and your donkeyness into an archangel energy, knowing knowledge,
because you know, sometimes we act like monkeys and donkeys,
you know, which means you succumb to what people say. Well,
you know, it's human nature. Yeah, but it doesn't have
to be corny, cute, clever and predictable. I could be

(19:40):
human being and still say, um, I'm gonna play a
melody that's gonna make people cry and laugh at the
same time. Why, because they are at a molecular level,
they remember that they also have this gift imbu to
do gift before we came out of the womb, imbued

(20:04):
to create blessings and miracles. That's what music is about.
The show business, their entertainment, and then there's music to
really elevate, transform, and illumine the human consciousness of this planets.
So we don't have the stuff that's been having for
the last two years. Fear and separation and superiority and racism.
All that stuff comes for one word fear. Fear. And

(20:30):
that's why I played could Ring all the time because
as soon as that play a love supreme fear disappears
immediately in the room. Wow. Okay, now now I gotta
go to the first question. Okay, Now, will you tell
us what it was like to work with Rob Thomas?
All right, you can you tell me what was your

(20:54):
first musical memory? My dad, my father, We were in
a in a yard in the backyard in outlanda holly school,
small little town, and it was like five o'clock in
the afternoon. Everything's kind of gets gold, you know, when
the sound goes down. Everything was golden and my father
he was holy teaching me how to read and wanted

(21:15):
to teach me how to play the violin. So he happened,
opened up the violin case rather violin put it put
it up here like this, and then he goes meta,
which means look meta. And then he went and I'm
like what And then a bird comes over the street
and he was he goes, best, do you see? He

(21:40):
goes one more time? M hm bird. If you can
talk to the birds, you can talk to people. Get it.
And I was like, that's crazy. My daddy do that too.
He talked to the birds. That really yeah? And what

(22:04):
why don't you talk to Charlie bird? That's bird parking
like you're a whole of the league. So your father
was a violinist, yes, okay, okay? Also what what where
were you born? I was born in outland Jalisco. It's

(22:24):
a little town in between Guadalajara and if you blink
you missed it. Okay, it's very small. And how long
how long did you stay there? Like? What was your
family situation like did you have brothers and sisters or
was it a musical family? Yes? Thank you for asking.

(22:45):
Uh From forty seven, where I was born till fifty five.
We left because my mom was the one that would
always say los obamas, which means we're out of here,
you know, because my dad was already living in Tijuana
and sending us money from from Tijuana, you know, because
they got really hard to make a living in Outline
Jalisco for my dad and feed feed four sisters and

(23:07):
two brothers and my mom and a lady who was
working with us, so there was a lot of people
to feed. And uh so my mom says, we're out
of here. You know. Your dad sent me some money
to kind of like you know, make up and console
me because they haven't seen him for almost like a year.
So he sent me some money for me to buy
a stuff that we're living almost in the streets, you know.

(23:29):
And so as you go, I'm gonna take this money.
I'm gonna give it to this guy that your dad knows.
He works as a cab driver in the center of town.
I'm gonna give him half of that money and use
that money the rest of you have to feed, you guys.
But we're going to Tijuana and we see you. We're
gonna see your dad and if if your dad don't
want me or you guys, he have to tell us
eye to eye in front of us. So my mom,

(23:50):
my mom was like that, you know. So I was like,
oh so, so we all got into one car man,
and we took it like a week to get there.
And you know, it's it's a long story, but it's
a story of this bit. My story is my mother
is pure conviction, a pure conviction woman, and my dad
pure charisma. I mean this dude, man, it was like

(24:13):
people look at him like like he was like Clara
Gibble or something, you know, like women women, Oh the
who said, you know, they just melting stuff. So I
got those two from my mom karisma and and and conviction,
and they gave me something that is very important for
musicians to show up with, not arrogance, but confidence, like

(24:38):
like Miles Davis confidence, you know, Tony Williams confidence. So
what happened though, Carlos when she got there, she rolled
up with confidence. But did she succeed even what she wanted? Well? Yeah,
she had to knock on the door where my dad
had sent the address from this letter, and it was
three o'clock in the afternoon, and nobody would answer the door.

(24:59):
And and so she so she knocked harder, and then
this woman opened the door, you know, and yeah, and
she was and so first before she got to the door,
there was like a wine or darrel like in the streets.
And she says to my mom, who are you looking for?
So my mom described, my daddy goes, oh, he's inside.

(25:20):
Knock again louder. So she knocked again, and the lady
opened the door. She started screaming at my mom and
cursing out of her, and she was making such a
rockets my dad all my dad came out. And the
first thing he looked at the first thing he looked
at me. The first thing he looked at west me,
and he was mesmer was like and then he looked
at my mom and the rest of us, like, what

(25:42):
are you doing here? H and his and his face
looked like the NBC peacock with all the colors in it.
And my mom said, my mom. My mom was like,
you know, she did her thing, and next thing, I know,

(26:02):
he left that prostitute that he was staying with, and
then she took us and through this out of place,
and you know, it was the it was the worst
part of Tijuana. It was the ghetto of the ghetto ghetto.
You know, they didn't even have a roof yet, they
were still building this house. You know. I don't want
to tell like like Melanchola whatever, but but you know,

(26:23):
it's it is what it is, and all that stuff
gave us conviction, you know, because there's you can only
go out from here, you know. Um, do you ever
go back to your original hometown. Yes, I went to
Outlana a couple of times, and I started the clinic.

(26:45):
By the grace of God, you know, we started hospital clinic.
We invested I don't know how many millions because I
don't keep track of numbers and records. I don't know
how many records I record. But anyway, we're able to
to have what is it called, Yeah, it's a foundation,

(27:05):
but it had a specific name, uh, Santario. They lose
like a sentuary of light, you know, and we had
the latest and people from Las Vegas in Seattle. They
donated brand new ambulances and stuff. So this this this hotel,
I mean, this hotel, this hospital is it's no joke.
It's really really really state of the art, you know.

(27:28):
But I told but I told him, I think I
was doing that for years with him, and I told him,
you're like a teenager. Now I'm gonna back up, and
you need to pay your own now because you can't
depend on It's like when you tell your kids, man,
you know, you need to pay your own rent, and
you pay the water. You need to pay you know,
you know. And so I says, so I'm back enough.
You know, you in the town, the mayor. Here's but

(27:51):
here's the thing, man, you got it. You take care
of it, because now I want to do one in
Tijuana and Huirez and and you know, I don't know
if you ever heard of three Squares. It's a place
where they have food. This lady June Julie Merritt, before
she she was going to die of cancer, and before
she said, before I die, I want to create big

(28:12):
giamngus buildings like like like wal Mart's tall, till them
up with food and feed the kids in Las Vegas.
She did that with two buildings. She never died and
we learned so much from her that he just take
your time and go to three Squares and you see
what's happening with this building and you see people donating

(28:34):
the you know the thing about Las Vegas is that
the thing about Las Vegas, there's a lot of people
that I call weapons of mass compassion, people who wake
up to be of service to humanity. You don't hear
about them. You only hear about the clubs in the streets.
But there's bona fide people who I call weapons of
mass compassion, people who they roll up their sleeves, they cook,

(28:55):
they pack, they do all kinds of things, and they're
always helping and healing, wrecting and curing humanity's mentality. How
how did you know that that that was your particular calling,
at least for you donating that center? Like why not
a school? Why not uh, you know, housing development or whatever?

(29:18):
Like what was it about doing a not a hospital,
but like a center? What what was it about that
that you felt that's what the town needed? Thank you
for asking that. I grew up with Tito Planta and
Baby King, believing that I could be somewhere in the middle.
But in the meantime I was checking out the lotest
wuere to Martin Luther King mother Teresa, So I would say, well,

(29:41):
I'm gonna do this, so I can do that, you know.
So I'm gonna play music and with the energy or
money from that, I'm gonna give it to two million,
five hundred clean to Mr Desmond to to to help
the children with aids so they can have uniforms, so
they can have shoe you know, because if you don't

(30:01):
have shoes and uniforms, you can't get into the classroom.
So I donated. I did. We did a whole tour.
I paid my taxes, and I paid my band and
what was read the rest of that. I gave it
to Miss Destmond to to clean one check, you know.
And I did it because I'm constantly, like you and

(30:22):
you and everybody here where a constantly being nutge inwardly
do this follow that, you know? And so but I said,
but I don't want people to know that I'm doing this,
And they said, well, I know that you don't want
people to know that you're given two million hydred clean
to Desmond to to to to help with the kids
and the aids and everything. But see if people do

(30:45):
find out a little bit, then it will inspire other
people to different pocketing to I said. So, I says,
but I don't feel comfortable because it feels weird to
do something. And then it almost feels like, look at me,
I'm doing no And they said, he said, no, man,
it's not like that, you know, trust this or some like.
So that's why I did it like that. You know,
I get it. I get it. Wow. Wow, that's that's

(31:06):
beautiful to hear. Well. Um, eventually, of course, I know
that you moved to the United States. I'm assuming you
moved to the Bay Area. How old were you when
you settled into California. I moved from to Juana the
first time in nineteen sixty two, and mom and I
were not getting along. We weren't getting alone for a

(31:27):
long time, you know, because she was very domineering, very set,
Like I said, a lot of conviction, and I'm not like,
with all respect to my sister and Brett's I'm not
that kind of guy that goes like that, you know.
So I wanted to go back to where I was working.
I was working in Tijuana in a nightclub called the Convoy.
We would play for an hour and for another hour

(31:49):
it would be women stripping. They were like yeah, So
to me, I was like, whoa, this is like better
than Circle than Sola whatever, you know, this is playing
an hour, you know, Green Onions and you know, uh,
something's got a whole of bit and paid Etta James
and book or tea and all kinds of people. And

(32:12):
for an hour I get to see ladies, you know,
strip and do the do the thing because they have
to feed the kids, because they have to do what
they have to do, you know. But I was like, yeah,
this this go to junior high school in America. Oh no,
heck no, I don't want to go to junior high school.
I want to stay in this joint and grow up
watching this thing over junior high school. Carlos, you were like, whoa, okay,

(32:38):
and they put plus, they put me back? Was that God?
To speak English? The only words that I knew was
stick him up animation from the most on the planet,
stick him up because I saw Royal Rogers, some TV

(32:58):
show roy Rogers and somebody said stick him out. They
pull it out, and it's like whoa. I said, Oh,
they come up. Okay, you know, so that was one
of the first words in English that I learned. Okay.
Who taught you how to play? Was guitar your first
weapon of choice? No, it was the violin. But I
didn't like the way it smell, the way it sounds

(33:20):
way he felt, you know, because you gotta get really yeah,
you know, and I like and and my dad, I
don't want to, you know, make him angry. So I
finally told him, you know, I don't want to play
this thing, man. And so my mom took me to
the center of town, Antiquana, and there was a band
called the t JS, and there was this dude named

(33:41):
have yet about these who had a big conk like
Little Richard, big Khaki pans, you know, a big big
almost like Bill Bottom pans. And he was a component
of three people, I mean, and he had it down.
He was like Baby King, Little Richard and Ray Child's
that's all he knew. And he played it really, really good.

(34:01):
So when I went to the center of time with
my mom, because she grabbed me by the hand, you're
coming with me, And I was like, I said, you
haven't played a while because you're dead in San San
San Francisco, and I don't want what he taught you
for you to lose it, so come with me. So
she pulled me by the end and she took me
to to see this guy and they're playing, you know,
they're playing, and the way he hit those notes he
had that twang like DV. King, FREDA King Albreak. He

(34:24):
had that twang thing. And I was like, it was
like seeing a flying saucerman or a first white whale
or something. And I was like, oh my god, right there.
I knew that's the only thing I was going to
be right there because of watching a guy play. I
mean you could when you when you played the guitar

(34:48):
and the notes resonated against the cars and the trees
and the church across the street. Man, I was like,
oh my god, the sound of the guitar, man is
very you know, Jimmy Hendrix, Stevie Ray, you know, it's
Albert king Is everybody you know, it's very. It seduces

(35:08):
your census is it's uh. Lauren Hills says, man one
note from you and assaulted all my senses, That's what
she said. So that's what guitars, guitar guitar players do
because when you banned the note. See when you banned
the note and you know how to get band it, man,
that's when people hair stand up, you know. And and

(35:31):
even my house I've seen I have a lot of
pictures of my house with guitars, you know, because he
wanted to get into the guitar, and he wanted to
know how to how to get inside that note bed
bending bending. There's something very very uh spiritual and sentual, spiritual,
essential about the guitar. Man, it's just you know, um, Carlos,

(35:56):
if I may, can you just tell us about the
moment or the moments leading up in the morning after
when you received this first guitar, because I it's a
it's got to be a special moment. But yeah, it
was especial. Thank you for asking that. My dad found
out from my mom that I didn't want to quit music,
but I wanted a guitar. So he sent me a
big fat guitar so like West Montgomery, you know, and

(36:19):
and uh it had pickups, but I was so naive.
I changed the strings and I put an eyeline strings
because I need, you know. And I said, well, man,
I can get a sound from this, and they said, no,
you need to put it, you know. So I changed
the strings again. Then I got in it. Man. When
I got in it, people were telling me you shouldn't

(36:40):
play bass, man, because I started with the bass. After that,
you played too many damn nuns to play the bass.
You used to play. I said, okay, so you know, um,
it was, it was. It's a it's all been a revelation, man,
being in this planet and learning how to articulate first
selectric guitar and then all the two G and African music,

(37:02):
you know, because because why don't you get into the drums?
Like I said, I love drums so much. Man, I
married a drummer. The drummer, the drummer for me. You
know that that that that is the closest to Tony
Williams alive, you know, because you know she goes she had,
you know. Anyway, so that's a beautiful commodation. You know,

(37:24):
the guitar to plane old tune you with b V King. Man,
that's a badass combination. Next thing, you know. And they said,
you know everybody has Cogan SMPTI Boless man. They said,
you know, like the Rolling Stories got Congle sent you
boless uh slides got Cogan sent Boless Miles got congus.
Why something happened at wood Stock m m Because because

(37:51):
it works, Because they said that it works. See, guitar
and congus make women dance differently, you know, the hippies,
the hippies ladies, you know, they're dancing like they're catching butterflies.
This year when you play, that is the standard white
girl dance. I never I never once thought of it.

(38:14):
It's catching butterflies. But you didn't know. But then you
play at Wahita, you know, which is like chaangainter with
bed King Doo doo doo doodeedd dude in d DoD
d Then Dad look at women just go oh okay,

(38:43):
you know, hey, if you get the women to dance
to it, then it works. Okay. Uh. I had questions
Carlos about two particular players and their influence and on
on your playing and just you guys personal relationship, uh

(39:04):
my vision, John uh McLaughlin and also Peter Green Um,
what can you say about you guys work together? Oh well,
thank you for asking that. You know, I knew about
I knew about John from a bitches brew and but
somebody told me in between I was playing at the
Fillmore and a brother who was taken care of like

(39:25):
a ballet for BB King. He had the day off
and he says, man, you're coming with me. I says,
where are we going? He says, We're gonna go to
the Slugs. What's that? It says, it's the club and
in Harlem, as his I said, who's playing it, says
Tony Williams trio, John McLaughlin, Larry Young and Tony Williams
in that place was small, but they were allowed, right.

(39:47):
This is this is before it emergency emergency, emergency, emergency. Yeah. Yeah.
And when I first heard him play again, it's it's, uh,
it's a different kind of revelation because you're going from
Johnny Hooker, Lightning Hopkins, Jimmy Reid, bb Keen Fred. You're

(40:09):
going to a cat like John mclachin who's playing a
combination of Jango Reinhardt with Robbie Shanka with West Montgomery,
and he's burning, burning with this this dexterity, him and
Tony Williams. And I was like, oh my god, you know,

(40:31):
I didn't know people could actually play like this. And
here's the word I didn't know people who I didn't
know people could articulate this kind of language that is
beyond superlatives. It was was Tony, you know, it's weird. Um.
One of the very first American not American root shows,

(40:53):
but one of the very first root shows. Once we
got our record deal, Tony Williams was also at the gig,
and I'm really kicking myself that I didn't watch him,
like I didn't really start to worship him, even though
I knew him well or knew of his work well.
But you know, unfortunately, like I guess, when people pass away,

(41:15):
then you really you start to hear their music differently.
And even like this, the next book that I wrote,
like chapter one is actually dedicated to there's a Toney
Williams song called there Comes the Time. Yeah that, yeah,
that's that's how I met my original manager. My manager

(41:36):
used to be like a DJ at a jazz station.
And I don't know, like I was really transfixed when
I heard that song and like it. It just always
stuck with me. But I always wanted to know, like,
since you got to witness prime Tony Williams drum was
he his symbol playing to me? And I get you

(41:58):
know that that Cindy is also so like a branch
of the Tony Williams tree. Was he in person during
his prime? Was he as violently loud as a drummer
as I imagined that he was? Because my only testament,
you know, besides what I see on YouTube. Um, but
you know, a lot of that stuff is more like
eighties Tony Williams, but there's really not much of the

(42:21):
late sixties early seventies Tony Williams archives available. But what
was it? What was his power like? Like he was
just one of the loudest grummans I've ever heard. I mean,
I heard Cream and their peak. I heard Jimmie Hendricks
at his peak. I heard Let's Up at their peak.
I have never heard anybody play like Tony Williams, John

(42:45):
McLachlin and Larry Young, not one of them come close
to to dynamics and and just pure energy that this
guy is sound plus the mentality. It's not even mentality
because it's not mental. Music is um You know, you
can't put superlatives I'm Tony Williams or John Coltran because
there's just no words on this planet to describe the unknown.

(43:08):
And but but you're seeing it, you're hearing it, and
you cannot believe it. You let me give you an example.
I zoomed then on his high hat on his foot,
and he was left right like did you like that?
But at the speed of at the speed of a
hummingbird's wing, and he locks it so that's locked. It's

(43:32):
not going anywhere. Now. He can do whatever he wants
to with his right hand and then with left hand
and with his foot drop drop bombs. But I've never
seen anybody lock a high head at the speed of
the hummingbirds wings and locked with total confidence and assurance.
I looked at him and I was like, oh my god,

(43:54):
this is like my brain just worth Like I feel
like my brain is getting like stretch marks, you know,
from That's the best band I have ever seen it
in my entire existence. And I love Jimmy, I love Cream,
I love I love a lot of them. I have
never heard anybody with the trio like that. I believe you.

(44:17):
I believe you. You know, we um a couple of
episodes back, we have Raphael Sadick on our show, and
you know, to hear him describe the Bay Area and
what it meant to grow up in the Bay Area
at the time when musicianship was at its absolute peak,

(44:42):
you know, with with San Francisco, like with the the
Summer of Love coming into play into Bloom and especially
like in Oakland with funk brewing over there. How how
is that well for him? He was just describing it
what it was like be young two, you know, casually

(45:03):
be a ten year old and see Larry Graham or
to casually see you or you know, all these musicians
that are in the area. What was it I mean,
because you're one of the pioneers in the Bay Area,
what was it about that that particular place on the
map that just made musicianship on a whole another level?

(45:29):
Like can you just I mean, I'm I'm assuming by
you know, by at least the mid sixties, you you
got your chops up. So can you just describe pre
record deal, pre Santana first record? Like what what is
the modus operandi of a musician in say nineteen six

(45:54):
in the Bay Area? Like is it Jam Sessions Galore?
Is it? Like? Who are your peers at the time?
Brown zero for Consciousness Revolution? You know, besides L. S. D.
Payoteam mescal and Ayahuasca, you have Charles Lloyd, You have
John Handy, you have h. Robbie Shankar, you have Ortis Reading,

(46:17):
you have James Brown, you have all all of it
is in one particular like a nebula, you know, and
and you have bb King, you have Albert King, and
then you have uh who else. Yeah, Lee Morrigan, you
know you can go. You can go to any club
man and here this this, you know, George Benson, this

(46:38):
cats this before George Benson was singing, you know, and
he was he was telling the guitar up and a
whole other kind of way. So for me, when people
say what are you gonna do tonight, it says, man,
it's hard to decide. I'm gonna go to the Both
Hand Club and see Miles Davis, or I'm gonna go
see Mongo Santa Maria or West Montgomery or the Grateful

(46:59):
Dad or Lifestone, you know, and it's all like right there,
you know. And and so what makes it more delicious
is that you can actually understand what they're doing. You know,
it's not out of the realm of your understanding capabilities.
And it's like if you keep looking at it and

(47:21):
hearing it from your inner ear, you can see what
what they're doing. You know. It's just a matter of
like going home and articulating, getting close to the facility,
because you have to have a certain kind of facility
or to articulate, you know, I mean, the difference between
I can tell the one, not the difference between Lee

(47:42):
Morgan or or Frady Haybrid or Miles or Clark Terry,
you know, just just trumpets alone. I know the guitar players,
I know the drummers, you know. And so for me,
growing up in San Francisco was like the ultimate university
of being connected to it all and at the same
time develop your own individuality, uniqueness and authenticity, you know,

(48:08):
because anybody would tell you, man, don't play my ship. Hey,
We'll get your own, man, you know, don't don't come
over here playing somebody else's ship, man, you know, and
they gave and they give you that look, you know,
like hey, man, you know they do that in Africa also,
they might have fifty drummers and each one has to
play their own thing. They give you a dirty look like, man,

(48:30):
don't play my thing, look at your own thing, you know.
And it was like that in San Francisco. You have
to find, you know, the difference between slide stepping wolf
and creating clear water, you know, Tina Turner, Albert Collins,
alber King, you know. And for me, I was like
I couldn't get enough, man, I could hell it. I

(48:51):
didn't even want to go to sleep because I just
want to soak it all up. I said, Man, I
must have died because this is heaven. Heaven you know
if you if you why, I just check out john
Ley Hooker and the Doors in Coltrane. I love Supreme,
It's the same thing. Wait, can I do a follow

(49:19):
up to that question, Steve? Yeah, I'll allow it. Thank
you appreciate. Here's the thing though, because your debut album,
and I want to know how you got your record deal,
but your debut album also arrives at the same time,
right in the same month as Woodstock, which clearly that's

(49:41):
the event that will define that generation. But what I
also noticed was that right after Woodstock, it's kind of
the you know, the turn of a new decade, and
things got darker. You know, a lot of cynicism, a
lot of darkness, especially in the music of Sly And

(50:03):
you know, I'm I'm and I'm conflicted on there's a
ride going on, you know, because yes, it's it's the
first funk record and I can't deny something that literally
puts food on my table to this day. But also
know that that album to me is almost like Slide
falling on his sword if you will, like his personal

(50:24):
demons also coming to light. But then you know, but
I also feel like, with the exception of a choice few,
you seem to be the only person from the Woodstock,
the class of Woodstock, that's still stayed in a spiritual lane.
Like you didn't get dark, You didn't get you didn't

(50:46):
get cynical. You know, I don't I don't know what
was happening in your personal life at the time, But
can you explain why when everyone else at the turn
of of six, when they all went to kind of
a darker creative place, that you didn't venture there all

(51:11):
that much like your music and even though like of course,
like by the fourth or fifth album, you sort of
slid away from I guess what Clive would have life
loved you to keep churning out the hits and whatnot,
uh to the level of the first two records, But
you know you you didn't go dark, And can you

(51:32):
explain why or what was happening at least at that
time that just caused everyone to go to just a
darker cynical place with their creativity. Thank you for asking that.
You know, most of it comes from my mother saying
to me, so no, which means that is not for you.

(51:53):
For you. You know, the cocaine, cocaine shooting up there's
that is not for you. And she said it's so
loud and so engraved in my thing. Uh So. The
the other thing is that I want to just pause
for a second tell you I want to offer you
my deepest gratitude for bringing out the black woodstuff from

(52:18):
from Harlem, because man, I just signed this summer and
I was like, damn, I got all these questions to
ask you. Man, like you have the whole thing from
Sonny Sharrock. I want I want to have asked about
that for the second. You're the second very famous guitar
player that wants to hear that. You and PAMOTHENI can

(52:40):
go down man all day. It's amazing. Okay, Okay, so
I'm gonna do. I'm connected with Dave Snyder, which is
his keyboard player, and and uh I made a promise
to create a jubilation Okay that's the name of it
out the c D. Now I'm gonna have all the
drug guitar players that I love, and each one's gonna
think a song. Wow. Yeah, already decided you're going to

(53:22):
be my shaman. So yes, I'll share that with you
something I've never seen. Had you've heard of that concert
in real time? Like that? Had you heard of what
was going on in Harlem that way? Yeah? Well it's
not called the black Woods. Stop, we don't do that. Sorry,
you know what I mean? Yes, okay, I'm sorry. What
do you call it? Summer? Summer? Summer summer? And the

(53:43):
cont I mean the folks that lived there called the
concert at the that park? Um, what's the park again
of Mayor Marcus Sarvey? Marcus Garvey Marcus Garvey Park. Yeah,
okay that yeah, yeah yeah. So did you know about
it in real time? No? No, I mean I heard
it floating around because the first and who told me
about this before anybody was Greg and Rico because he
knew it existed, you know, how to get ahold of it,

(54:05):
you know? And and so those are the two things
that I want, Actually I need a lot because to
answer your question again about not still coming to the
predictable victim uh pathetic predictable mentality of being uh too
too high to play, which is a contradiction because when

(54:28):
I when you play, you get high, you know, so
that means that you're doing something chemically that you shouldn't
be doing because now you're you're putting your you're putting
your light, your spirit and your soul to the side
and your ego and saying, hey, man, I got this.
In meantime, it don't sound so good or look so
good or smells so good, you know. So, So what

(54:53):
I did is like I pay attention to the staple
singers because I hung around with him and Pop Staples,
and I hang around, you know, with I'm o'clock, and
so I basically I join in a west Point type
of spiritual discipline path which Richard moy and that kept

(55:14):
me from self destruction because you know, here, here's the
thing before we move out there, there is such a
thing as self deception and self discovery. Okay, I talk
about it. So self deception is this, yeah, So self

(55:34):
discovery is like I'm gonna open my heart and let
God in the universe, like like our blake you said,
here's how Blakey from the Creator through us for you.
That's for me, that was hired, that was hired in heroin,
cocaine or any of the other substance like that man

(55:55):
from the Creator directly through me for you. And once
I heard about that one, and then you know, I'm
you're not going to bamboosto Santana and do thinking less
than my life, my spirit and my soul. So no, no,
we no ayawasa. It sounds like self deception is cocaine,
with self discovery is shrooms. There we go. I would

(56:19):
like to also be clear that, yeah, I think with
ayahuasca and we like, I don't. I never consider those
drugs plant medicine more than you know, maybe the FDA does,
but you know you're right about that because they don't
want us enlightened. I'm with it. I mean, I was
just just curious. I'm I'm in the baby stage. Do

(56:40):
you often do like uh, sound baths or rituals or
those sort of things like sound spiritual sound journeys or
those sort of things like with the spiritual community or anything.
The closest thing that I do now to any of
that is get a heart felt hug, bro, Cindy can

(57:03):
stay there? Yeah, Wow, what else do you need? I
would take one of those that was not to be creepy,
but your wife is amazing, Steve. Oh okay, um, well,
I really want I really want to get to like
Kirk's questions but but I'll ask one of my two

(57:24):
questions now, since we're short of in this time period. Um,
I wanted to know if you could tell our list
there's about Luis Gasca. Um. You were on an album
in seventy two with him. He's a trumpet player. Uh.
The album's call for those who chant, and I just
wanted to put a little light on that, on that name,

(57:46):
if you could tell us about him. Well, thank you
for asking that. Man. When the band broke up, you know,
there was a point period, a specific night, when I
said to a certain musicians, I need so and so
to be out of the band because there's some line
the rest of the band with her ruin and cocaine,
and we sound like crap, we don't practice. And this

(58:06):
is that this is not the band that I mean
that I want to be in. Our platinum albums are
collecting dust and we're not moving forward. So I want
this guy and that guy to be out of the
band or I won't be on the plane. And they said, well,
then it's not your band, you won't be on the plane.
I said, okay. So they left without me, you know,
and so what I did to console myself, I went

(58:30):
to the basins Street West and Brightway, San Francisco, hung
out with us Gasca, Joe Henderson, George Cables, and this drummer,
a drummer who played uh Marshall this this, and they
allowed me to come in and say they man. I
was like, they said, go ahead, Santana, you know. So

(58:52):
when they were dudey, dude, be d d do indeed,
I was like, oh this is this is different, you know.
So I wasn't afraid to not be in Santana anymore
because the whole world was embracing me to learn from
Joe Henderson and Louis Gasca and and everybody else like

(59:15):
that any any Marshall I think it's his name, you know.
Uh and and so uh, God found a way for
me not to feel sorry for myself for be uh
you know, like tripping on you know, what's gonna happen
to poor me. I don't think like that anyway, you know.
So I just went to the clubs and started sitting
in with people, and they were so gracious enough to

(59:38):
be patient. Though I didn't know a lot of the changes,
but I knew when to play and when not to play.
But even if it was your band. You were willing
to leave an organization that had your namesake adds its name. Yeah,
because at that time it was more like a lot
of bands. It was democratic, you know, until I realized, no,

(01:00:00):
it has my name, and I can't have somebody wearing
a Santana jacket going to the wrong places in town,
doing the wrong thing, because then it's gonna yeah, you know,
so anyway to be all that stuff was a blessing
in this guy's man, everything that has happened to me,
like the so called career suicide, which I've done three
or four times, you know. Uh, but at the meantime,

(01:00:22):
I'm hanging around with Herbie, you know, or Wayne, or
hanging around with Alice Coltrane or or Larry Young, you know.
So every time I committed career suicide, I'm learning from
the master's masters. And so hey, man, this this is
this is just lame, you know, hanging around with them.
You gotta tell us about your Alice Coltrane encounter and

(01:00:44):
the first time you met her, because it must have
been spiritual at the least. Okay, So I got this
this one that a lot of people are going to
roll their eyes because they're not going to believe it,
but I don't care because I was there. So she
fighting me to stay in her house for a whole week.
And I was hanging around with the children because at
that time they were children, and we would we would

(01:01:06):
wake up like a run one thirty in the morning,
and we would meditate first, and then she would play harp,
and then she played piano, and then she played The
World is Her piano, and and then we meditated again.
And when we were meditating, they got really really deep
and quiet, and all of a sudden, I swear to you,

(01:01:28):
I see John Coltrane coming right about me one of
many times, but this one's coming right at me. And
he's got a snow cone with three flavors of ice cream,
right and and and this is the one inwardly. And
so she just next to me and she goes, go ahead,

(01:01:48):
try one. How did she knew what was inside my meditation?
She goes, go ahead, go ahead, try one. So I
licked it, and she goes, that's the beef diminished seven.
Try another one. So I licked it again. Man, I
was like, oh my god, I'm an honest could ran

(01:02:10):
and could rans here offering me a snow corne with
three flavors of ice cream in each flavor is like
gu talked, I mean their course, you know they were
they a specific color? Did the color? Yeah? They were
like yellow, green, and orange? And what was be flat diminished?
Do you remember be flat diminished was at that time

(01:02:33):
at least but that particularly night was the yellow one. Okay,
So you you you believe in synesthesia? Absolutely, No, I
believe you. Look, I believe. I was gonna say, you know,

(01:02:54):
oftentimes when you have this level, when you're at this
this level of this particular a plane, a lot of
inexplicable things start happening to you that average mere mortals
would just think like that didn't happen or whatever. But
you know it's no. I absolutely believe that human beings
are regular. Human beings are just very limited and there

(01:03:19):
are three dimensional Yeah, but in your high your thoughts,
I don't think he's supposed to think of people like that, though,
are you We're gonna I know there are mortals, mere
humans mirror. Well I'm trying to paraphrase it because we're
not a visual show, so I can't you know, but
it's like a house. It's like a house. You got
the first floor, second floor, you know the roof, and
you have the basement, you know. So we're not we're

(01:03:40):
not putting anybody down. It's just so many people want it,
they just don't know how to get it. So it's
fortunate when you can find it correct. Did you want
to ask something, Uh, there's there's plenty. I realized amount
of time and uh, I want to talk about some
gear too and that side of things. But before I

(01:04:02):
get to that, I have to say, Mr sant Down.
I got to meet you one time. It was on
I think on a Where's where's that guitar shop? Mat
New min Off Guitars No madow Man after Guitars used
to be there on West fourth Street in the village.
I was with my son and you walked out of

(01:04:24):
the store. You like walked into us, and I was
like Carlos, and you said hello, and you looked at
my son and you said, hey, angel, one day you're
gonna heal the world at a time. The night before
this encounter, we were watching a movie called Soul to Soul.

(01:04:47):
Ironically enough, Oh, my mother was just talking about this. Yes,
and and I said to my son, it's the guy
from the movie. So I'm wondering in Soul to soul,
was that your first trip to Africa and can you
speak on that experience, whether it was your first time
or not. Yes, Uh, to go to Africa in Ghana, Akara,

(01:05:11):
Ghana and the things that I've learned, Yeah, Agana into
to be in a place where I get to learn
about the shaman who was so profoundly powerful that the
mayor would move out of the way and the police
department will get out of the way. I mean, anybody
get out of the way. When this guy would come

(01:05:31):
to the streets, you know, and Wilson Pickett would say,
don't tell me anything about it. I don't want to
hear about it. I don't want to hear that stuff,
you know, because he didn't he didn't want to be
put into an ex kind of thing, you know, you know,
because he was afraid of like he was afraid he
was and he was lucked, you know. So Willie Babbo
was playing with us because our regular timbatta players, Shapido,

(01:05:53):
had an aneurysm, so we took we took Willie Bubble
with us, and Willie Babbo had koreyahs, you know, to
protect and so from you know, the other the Boodoo
from Africa, so he thought, and so so he so
he got really really sick with my brother Willy Bobo.
And so Michael Caravella said, hey, man, you need to

(01:06:14):
go to his room like it's I said, man, it's
two O'clocktor the Morning said yeah, but I've been here
all night. It is your term. Man. Just grabbed some
towels and wear him and and and put her in
his head, you know, because he's sweating a lot. Just
helped him out. So I go over there to his
room and the guy knocks on the door. It's a
regular doctor doctor and he looks just like Ossie Davis, right,
And I was like okay, and he goes coming in,

(01:06:35):
and so I'm looking at Willie and man, how are
you doing? Man? He's just um man, you know, and
said that there's another knock on the door, and it's
the Boodoo man, the main Boodoo man, the guy who
put him, he put the thing on him and he
and he looks at me right on the door, and
I had an inner conversation like I did with Alice Coltrane.
So I'm having this conversation with this um shaman and

(01:06:59):
I said it, I know who you are and I
know what you got, but if you want to deal
with me, you have to go through this. And I
had a T shirt with Jesus in it. I said, so,
if you can kick his ass, I'm yours. Otherwise you
have to leave me alone. Just like that, he looked
him in my eyes and went right around me and

(01:07:21):
left me alone. M hm, you know. So, so I
knew that we had an understanding. You know, it's all
about the energy, and he knew that I wasn't intimidated
because I'm I'm holding on to sweet Baby Jesus, you know,
and I have a confidence again that sweet Baby Jesus
is gonna it's going to like, let this cat know

(01:07:44):
he's okay. Leave him alone. You know, he's not a
threat or anything like that. Just just leave him alone.
And and so the being in Africa and learning how
to articulate, you know, the real them check this out.
So we're invited to a dinner when everybody's there, the

(01:08:05):
mayor everybody. And then they said, will you when you
guys preach, take off your hat pats and stand out
because we're don't do the national anthem. Here comes the
national land, national anthem. Who do you do they dude?
Which which is? Which is a men go who do you?
They women go oh oh do you? They oh together?

(01:08:31):
Oh you uh And I said, wait a minute, that's
one was something national anthem and cultural and player to
go no this We were playing this song before Tante
Maria was ever in this planet. This is our Yeah,
that's right. And ghana Ghana. That's there's a national anthem
and go see me more. I'm gonna get domn serious. Yeah. Man,

(01:09:01):
we always did it first and we always man well
as a drummer too, drummer boss, you should be there,
mm hmm um. The time when you start to come
into the world's consciousness is kind of simultaneous with when

(01:09:26):
loud electric guitar starts to come into our consciousness and
um souped up amps and stuff like that. There's a
there's a rumor that um mess of boogies are called
mess of boogies because you try it out an amp
from a cat and you're like, man, this thing boogies,

(01:09:49):
and now they call it boogies? Is that true? Yeah,
I'll tell you the other half of it. The other
half of was like the other half of was like, looking,
I need to bring your amplifier back and and um,
I want to know if you can do something for me.
What kind of was It's a Princeton souped up Princeton

(01:10:10):
soup before it was a book. It's a sooperstop Princeton
before it was a boogie and say? He says, what
can I do for you? Man? I says, I need
for you to put another value in control? He goes,
what put another volume control? He goes, what for so
I can turn this one to ten and this one
to one and I can sustain and not drive people

(01:10:30):
crazy in the hotel. Oh, this is why you're on
this episode because I would have never known to ask
that question. Copy and who's the who's the cat you
took it to? I know I should know this because
I worked with book. His name is Randy Randy Smith.

(01:10:51):
Randall Smith. Randall Smith's right, sorry, Randall if you hear this, well,
something just hit me right now. And if I don't
say it, I'll forget to ask it. But it just
hit me. Wow, I can't believe I'm about to ask
this question. I believe it is your albums that the

(01:11:14):
world got to know the artwork of Marty Claire Wind. Yeah,
the um yeah, like the the infamous. You know he
did Bitches brew he did uh, at least three covers
for Herbie Hancock. He did Last Days in Time for

(01:11:35):
earth Win and Fire had a very distinctive part collage.
I mean again, if for our listeners out there, just
look up Bitches brew look up at Braxis. I mean,
I believe a Braxis Braxis Is. I think his first cover.
How did you discover Marty clare Wine and how did
he wind up just designing for practically eight other artist

(01:12:01):
on Colombia? And did you feel some sort of way
when everyone wanted to use his artwork after you used
him first? Oh? Uh? To be with precision and specificity,
it was Miles Davis with Bitches Brewed that came out
Accubant in sixty nine. I was coming out in the
nineteen seventy. Now the Abrutis album. That the Black Naked Lady,

(01:12:25):
that's Mary, and the angel with the conga that's Gabriel.
So that's the annunciation that she's gonna she's gonna get
pregnant with Jesus. So the whole A cover of Abractis
is actually called the Annunciation because Gabriel with the conga
between his legs, the beautiful angel is telling Mary, you
know you're you're either about to or you're pregnant with Jesus.

(01:12:50):
That's what I think it's about. Okay, do you have
your were you? Do you own the original Peace? I
almost bought it, but I didn't. I hear what I
did buy in perpetuity. I bought the comba, the angel
with the conga. Every time you see that angel with
the conga between his legs, that one is mine. I

(01:13:11):
bought that one from him in perpetuity and perpetuity because
that's what Santana is. As soon as you see that
angel with the conga, you know that's you know, that's
that's the logo. That's Santana logo. Okay, Yeah, I think
at Electric Ladies Studios, um, they didn't realize that they
had uh Stevie Wonders artwork for Music of My Mind,

(01:13:35):
at least the inside that uh Marty put together. They
found it in the closet like after sitting in there
for like forty five years, and they finally like framed
it and hung it up. But yeah, so, I mean,
what was it. What was it about his work that
spoke to you acid? There you go, all right, since

(01:14:00):
you burn it up, what is it about acid? And
do you recommend it? And how should it how? How
should it be partaking? I would assume in spiritual circumstances
or what visions do you see? I've never asked a
person what's it like to take acid? It's a very

(01:14:23):
perfect it's a very it's a very personal experience, a
very personal experience. And I do recommend it under supervision,
you know. And so they have, believe it or not.
They actually have people's tours that they go to South
America in the jungles of Peru and Brazil and they

(01:14:45):
spend a weekend or a week and they do the
ayahuasca thing, and uh, you know, it's it's a form
of getting rid of a bunch of personalities that you
invested in ortionately. That is not you, Oh tell me, oh,
I'm in you know, because because your friends see you

(01:15:08):
this way, and then you teach you see you that way,
and then your mom see you this way. You know,
But who are really here's the question, you know, the
main question about L S D. Who really are you?
When you stand but naked in front of your own light.
Now I can do this, not just I can do
this payoti or ayahuasca or acid or is there one different?

(01:15:30):
Thank you? Thank you? You know all of the all
of those things are just like portals, portals than you.
There's just it's just fears and portals that you walk into.
And if you're a nice person, you're gonna have a
great time. If you don't, you don't, don't try it,
because you you know, some people when you do it,

(01:15:51):
they make the mistake of getting under the sheets because
they don't like what they're seeing, you know, and that
makes it worse, because now you've gotta deal with you.
I've heard this, you know, so I've heard this. I
had so much fun. I thought I was a kid
man in Disneyland and I had free tickets for the
older rights, and you know, because I wasn't afraid, and

(01:16:13):
I'm still not afraid, and you're a nice person, and
I'm a nice person. Can I ask my second the question? Um?
Speaking of what you were just saying with regards to
taking ancaid, you said you played on a song called
Pretty as You Feel U with Jefferson Airplane in ninety
one and played with with your Maccalcinen on that song.

(01:16:37):
Can you tell us anything you remember about that session
or about playing with yourman? And do you still talk
to yourma. We haven't seen each other in a while.
The last time we did something with think of Blues
for Salvador with with Jeri Garcia and Wayne Shorter and
Bunny Rate. No, I haven't seen a you know. It
was that was like a beautiful way for me to

(01:17:00):
be accepted, because Santana wasn't totally accepted, you know, in
the San Francisco scene because we were rough. You know,
We're from the Mission District and we're rough. We're not
necessarily like groovy, far out whatever man hippie. You know.
We we were like, no, man, we don't you know.
So it was different until I started smoking weed and

(01:17:21):
taking the LSD. Then I said, oh yeah, and now
I know what they're talking about. Let's go to Montano
Paiez and hang out with Quicksilver and the Grateful Dead
and Your Mind and Jack Cassidy. You know. But in
the beginning it was kind of like a ripe rival
conflict kind of thing, and bainly basically because of the
mentality of Marine County versus the Mission District in San Francisco,

(01:17:43):
which is like like the Jets and the Sharks. Do
you remember that session for for that song? I think
I smoked a lot of weed that day, so I
don't know if I remember that everything else, though, you
hope to stomach. I wanted to ask you, and this

(01:18:06):
is a little further into the timeline, Um, what do
you recall about the song whatever happens with Michael Jackson
that you played one that is so sweet? Man? That
was so sweet? They told me, hey, Michael, because at
that time after Supernatural, everybody was calling, you know, Prince
and Michael and everybody wants to by out if we

(01:18:29):
could interact, you know, and exchange and uh, you know,
being a fan of both Prince and Michael Jackson, I
mean to the max you know who isn't you know?
And uh, I mean I got like a bunch of
stories to share with with Prince, but I won't do
it right now. But the way with Michael Jackson, I

(01:18:49):
received this phone call and and it was from his
last arranger producer right now, I forget his name. He
was the main guy, John Jeans, John Queen. No, I
don't think it was Jeremy Love was Jeremy Love. It
no my guy. And he called and he called and

(01:19:18):
he said they sent me the track and then I
played at it and and I was like wow, you know, um,
I'm just to honor you know that I'm able to
be with Michael Jackson and with Prince we we we
we did a lot of things live, but we never
recorded it. And the same thing with Miles, you know.

(01:19:40):
So I feel very validated and celebrated because well, it
took him a long, long, long, long long time for
the graund needs to acknowledge me and anything, and they
finally give it to me with Supernatural, like you know,
eight eleven nomination, eleven nominations, and I wanted the same

(01:20:00):
and I won nine. Uh ground Me's like Michael, you know.
And what was really crazy is like like it's like
a supreme els. The the last one is Bob Dylan
and Lauren Hill giving me the last one, you know,
And here's marry Ba Lafanti and Wayne Shoulder and that's
how I can see, man, I just seen Wayne Shoulder

(01:20:21):
and hey bal la Fanti and Bob Dylan and and
I remember saying, I am so grateful, thank you for
this beautiful night. Long live John Coltrane and John Lee
hook you know, because that's that's my foundation. John Lee
is like he calls me and he says, Carlos, I says, years. John,

(01:20:43):
He says he loves God and I love his people,
you know. And and he called me one time for
his birthday and he says, I said, club, hey, man,
call me sometime. That says, how are you doing? Johnny says, Man,

(01:21:06):
when I hear you your boys, it's like eating a
great big piece of chocolate cake. And I have it.
I recorded it, you know, because I'm just I'm showing
that right now because this is my validation. Man. That's

(01:21:29):
that's what Santana is about, you know, with a lot
of drums for you. Okay, So I was gonna say,
when um, okay, we're going all over the timeline. Now
this might as well just be rapid fire. Let's go.
So the thing is the thing is that Okay, So
in five when Prince said, you know, like everyone keeps

(01:21:52):
compared to me to Hendrix, but that's basically because we
have the same skin color. But they really listened to
my work. They would clearly say that I'm from you
know the DNA of Santana, which is true, but this
is what I want to know, um, especially with your
work with both Lauren and White Cleff. And the thing

(01:22:17):
is is that you know when you're on Zion. And
the thing is is like, and again, I know that
that Maracci playing, you know, that's your roots and whatnot
playing acoustic guitar. However, I'm I'm almost are you worried

(01:22:40):
that people aren't really grasping what your artistry is because
the thing is is that and I'm not going into typecasting,
but if I'm getting Santana or my record, I would
have probably had you do something that's closer to the
guitar solo that's at the end of X Factor X Factor,

(01:23:03):
which sounds I thought that was Santana. When I heard
that he was on I thought X Factor. And the
thing is because of you know, this is like CD
streaming time. You know, you don't live with liner notes
the way that you used to when there was cassettes
and LPs. So I just always assumed that you are
an X factor. And then one day when I like

(01:23:23):
just sat and read a liner notes, I'm like, wait
a minute, did she get them to play acoustic guitar,
because like, oh, Mexican Santana, what are you giving to
play acoustic? And I was like, I wonder if she
knows that his sound was really the sound of the
song that came before that. And also with with the

(01:23:45):
product B G B and with Wye Cleft the same thing.
Do you sometimes album what's the phone of man? I
forget what? Yeah, A Lauren was Zion, but the world
we're talking about is X factor, right, So what I'm

(01:24:06):
what I'm just saying is that you know, I was
trying to over I was over as with everything. I
over analyzed it, and I was like, well, did they
take him out of his normal comfort zone because they
didn't want him to sound like Carlos Santana or did
they just not know? Because I was just wondering, like,

(01:24:26):
why would you have Carlos Santana just play acoustic guitar
when he really would light up? Let me just start
all over again. What was the creative process like when
you did Lauren and when you work with Wycleft on
your solo record and when you did a miseducation of
Lauren Hill. Well, thank you for all that, you know,

(01:24:48):
let me explain to you how I arrived at getting
the sound. Okay. So it was a picnic in Santo, say,
like around the summer, and I went there and there
was a park and in the park in the afternoon
they were playing like a picnic, they were playing mariachi music.

(01:25:08):
They were playing uh a pro Cuban music, which is
like Chad Child dance song Meenge, you know from from
Dominican Republican and Waihi Wahi does like Rey Barretto. And
then you have a rock and roll band, you know,
like like a bunch of surfers, you know. So I'm
hearing all music at the same time. When I got

(01:25:29):
out of the car, I'm hearing three different sounds and
I went, oh, okay. So it's like it's just like
grabbing all of it and making one sound. And so
now when people they're still trying to define me sometimes

(01:25:50):
and I just took them very politely, well, I am
a multidimensional motherfucker. That's part ok Yeah. That that that
Max or a Mexic MEXI C A n with capital

(01:26:10):
ci A NX. But the reason I say that, man
is because I have the confidence after being with Tony,
Herbie and Wayne and Miles, and they invited me into
their sanctum, you know, and all of them they became
Freddie King, Aubery King, you know. So it has given
me a confidence that all I need to do now

(01:26:34):
is just compliment whatever gets in front of me, because
I'm not going to let myself for anybody, so encapsulate
me or put me, defined me, redefined me. Because let's
go back to Bruce, Bruce Lee. Let's be let's just
you know, so Carlos Antana has never played a lick

(01:26:56):
that Carlos Santana ain't want to play and ain't playing
out himself. No, no, no, no. There's a lot of
artists that you know, I would respect, but if they
would call me, I would say, I'm kind of busy
and thank you right now. But my play is full
and my fat I gotta do time with my family.
And the only chair that I would have played with
someone is if I don't feel it. If I don't
feel it, I'm not gonna play. I was asking just

(01:27:23):
from the standpoint of Okay, for example, I'm probably guilty
the same thing myself, not because I told him to
do this, but because this is what we chose to use.
But the one time that we worked with Prince on
the record, Uh, Prince only played keyboards, which you know,
it's almost like, Wow, you got Prince to play on

(01:27:45):
an album that you produced and he didn't touch the
guitar once you got him to play like you got
him to play tambourine like that sort of thing. And
I just I just I don't know. I just felt like,
once I found out that you weren't playing in your
the signature style that I know you for, I was

(01:28:05):
just wondering why they didn't use that to the hilt
on those particular records. But granted, yes, your water and
you can't be typecast and there's nothing that you don't
do that's not you, So I respect that. Yeah. You know,
the whole thing about this this interview, you can just
summarize it in two words. Hit me. Impeccable integrity. That's it,

(01:28:34):
you know, because anybody that I love, they have that
sound of impeccable integrity, and with that sound you get
a standing ovation from God, the the angels, and the devil.
There was if that is there is such a thing.
I don't believe in Satan, Lucifer, in in the devil.
You know, I believe in e g Oh, I believe

(01:28:56):
that the ego is creates, you know, the Boogeyman and
wolf In and Dracula. But since some of the spiritual
adult that stuff don't bother me. You know, I never
seen The Exorcist, and I don't want to because I
don't I don't want to assault my my subtle nerves
watching stupid movies that that people sell to sell you fear.

(01:29:18):
There's not people selling you fear in every channel already,
you know. So I go when I when when when
I When I'm thirsty, you know, when I'm thirsty, I
go to Coltrane immediately, and Miles on the corner, you know,
on the corner is like, man, it's you know, it's
what's happen. That's New York City on the course right now.

(01:29:40):
Oh wait, there's one question I do have to ask
you about your your seventies catalog. Um, one of my
favorite records of yours is uh board board letter. Yeah, Now,
for for that period of your life, what is what
is the creative process that leads to the crafting of
those songs? Is it just you guys jamming? Like? Is

(01:30:03):
it dumb bitches? Bruce style? Where you just play whatever
is in your heart and then you edit later like
I don't. I'm not certain who does your editing or whatever,
like your whoever your t O is like is it
is it pre planning our songs pre written or are
you guys just jamming like spontaneously. We just jamming spontaneously.

(01:30:27):
We didn't have the knife yet, so we never knew
how to add it back then. You know what it is.
And I take pride in saying, most of the stuff
that I've ever done is a one take. If I
got to if I gotta go to the second or
third take, let's go to another song, you know. So,
so the one take allows me to feel confident that

(01:30:48):
I call and doogo to play drums and uh Stanley
Clark in our mind Pidasa and are too, you know.
And because I can read how people look at you, man,
if they don't want to be in the m and
they don't feel like they want to play with me,
then they won't. But I can see when somebody says
it's gonna be interesting. Let see what Santiana want to go?

(01:31:08):
You know? Do do do do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? They? Um?
So I'm thinking Pararell Sanders. You know, I'm thinking the
things that I love Man Farrell Sanders, Weather Report, you know.
And so when we when we hit it, I just
we just gave him a little sketch of uh of

(01:31:31):
a clue and then we're go we hit it. Okay.
So that said, how are you able to miraculously at
least engage in the patience factor with your respective label bosses,
with Clive Davis and with Walter Yetnikov in terms of

(01:31:54):
sticking to your artistic and vision artistic vision and not
giving into what I'm clear that every time you play them,
this is the final album where they're telling you, please
just one, just just work with this one songwriter. So
you can't have a top ten hit, Please just one
more y, please one? You know, but evil Ways or

(01:32:17):
whatever like how because these these albums are closer, it's
closer to on the corner live, evil bitches brew like
you're in that creative zone. So how are you able
to sustain that that magic at least for the two
decades that you were with uh with Sony Columbia Okay,

(01:32:39):
with the exception Applive and Bill Graham In a Chris
Uh from The Gentleman who produced Bob Bob Marley right, okay,
So Chris Black okay with the obcession a few brothers
like that, while people like Walter Ye mcav I don't
know where said, but I don't care. So what I

(01:33:03):
have an attitude that I say, I'm gonna be here
long after you're gone, okay, because I've seen nine of
you come and go. I'm still here, you know, and
so I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. And you
can either, uh. And I went to this stuf with
Danny Einer and a bunch of a bunch of CEO

(01:33:26):
so whatever, you know, because I tell him, and I
tell him straight up. Man, there's artists and Connor artists,
and I know who I am, and you know who
you are. I don't know. I don't have to say
let me do this, because no, I'm just saying I'm
gonna do this, and if you don't like it, well

(01:33:46):
then I'll just be in and with another record company,
you know, And you can talk to my lawyer and
Bill Graham or whatever you know, but you have to
have a certain conviction determination that you're bigger than the company.
Damn y'all hear that, dude, man, this this might have
to put Matthew Knowles in second place. I mean, I respect,

(01:34:10):
this might be this might be my all time favorite interview.
That's such an education and so many subjects. Thank you.
I'm sorry, No, no, why the PRS. I feel like
the woodstock was the s G and the Gibson stuff,
and you're so defined by that sound of the PRS.
Why why is that? Because this stays in tune and

(01:34:33):
it seems really good the G I wanted to be
a bigger answer than that. But if it's just that,
that's cool, Okay. The s G neck, That's what I
was saying that it was like playing an electric snake
because it was like it was moving around like a
snake when I was playing it, and you see me
making ugly faces. I'm trying to make it stand still,

(01:34:54):
you know, because that because the neck of the guitar
is literally moving kind of like this. So so so
it used to out of tune a lot, and so
I said, man, I need to have one more time.
I need to have confidence that my guitar is gonna
behave So I stopped playing the s gees because the
neck wasn't conducive to being and tune as I wanted to.

(01:35:14):
So I got the Last Fall, and after the Last Fall,
I went to Yamaha, and after the Yamaha, I went
to Paul Rehey. Smith came to me and very graciously said, hey, man,
I met made this guitar, and um but if I
know ever he knows the guitar player, Uh, he belongs
too Hard. You know, there's the group Hard. But I'm
want to send it to you for for a week
and you can't have it. You can just play it

(01:35:35):
and if you like it, then I'll make you one.
And so I love people with conviction and determination, and
I liked it so much. I've been with him since
seventy eight seventy nine. How many access do you own?
Where is that just? I don't I don't know, no, no, no.

(01:35:58):
I Once they gets through like fifty, I get rid
of them and I get I donate him, you know,
to to feed people here in Las Vegas, or to
do this for schools like you were saying, you know,
for hospitals or whatever, because uh, I don't want to
pay insurance on something that I don't play. I didn't
think about it like that. Damn. Now you're making me

(01:36:20):
feel bad man. How do you navigate with the culturally,
with the African continent. It's so interesting because I'm wondering, like,
with all the different sounds, all the different cultures, all
the different countries. And mind you you you're dealing with
other cultures and stuff outside of the continent. But how
do you navigate and through finding and discovering sound and

(01:36:43):
that huge continent? And have you navigated it fully? Do
you feel like you have? Thank you for asking that. Yeah,
it's my favorite subject in music, which is the drums.
The drum is the best. If you would, I swear
to you, if we would just make it possible for

(01:37:03):
the drums to be in the hood, that Pavela, the
barrio and the shanty towns, you know, you wouldn't need psychiatrists, therapists, analysts,
pips or drug dealers, you know, because once you play
the drums, beating kinked the competing kink. Once you get
into it, it's like you' said your DNA, you remember

(01:37:24):
that it is the language, the language of light, you know.
So I wouldn't am I doing well brother quest a mission,
you know, to bring the drums back to the hood.
We closed up us, We closed up the parks, you know,
with the fences, and we put police in there, one

(01:37:45):
way in, one way out, okay, and you get a ticket.
When when you come in and you have a gun,
you get a ticket. You know. They put you know,
put the gun over there, and we'll give you a ticket,
you know. And there's like about fifty sixty drums and
badass drummer players. And then you have one drummer conga
player dressed up like a police you know, so so
they can feel comfortable, and he's playing his ass up,

(01:38:07):
you know, and so after but I don't really have
that they're playing, you say to them, okay, man uh,
if before you go, if you like the drum, you
can take the drum, leave the gun. So we call
it drums for guns, okay. And once we have enopple guns,
we melt them and we turned them into this beautiful

(01:38:28):
angel with a fro, you know, so beautiful angel with
a fro with a fron in Congas in Congas, you know,
like you just have a download right now. Man, Hey,

(01:38:50):
it's in the world now. Drum drums for guns. I
might have to do that. Don't have to do that.
That sounds like an initiative. It's in invitation, and it's
an invitation to do something that the police need to
have because once we get the drums and people and
we say we go to the mayor and say, we
need for you to allow the drums to be played

(01:39:12):
from eleven in the afternoon. New York needs this bad,
you know. And and and in certain parts where people
can just all over the country, this is an issue
right now in New York City because because of gentrification,
a lot of spots in Brooklyn that I mean and

(01:39:34):
attested those parks that those parts that uh, you know
that we're known for their Sunday Saturday parks, Yes they're gone,
has been stopped. Yes, wait in Prospect Park they stopped that. Well,
I think we still have our drum Circle Prospects, you
have it. But I'm seeing a lot of like you know,

(01:39:57):
the first instance of caring ing. Uh always complaints of
like that's happening all over the country. It already happened
in DC. It turned apart from that. Why you asked
the question before I got to ask my follow up
question with your guitar, is is there a seminal guitar

(01:40:17):
that you'll always keep like your woodstock guitar or your
are you sentimental with with with your your children, or
it's just like you know what you get you getting,
then the rest just wind up in storage or you
give them away. I got two or three main quarterbacks.

(01:40:37):
But I'm not attached emotionally, you too, Kirk doesn't have
to Yeah, I don't. I don't let sentimentality or my
ego tell me that I can't do it without this. No,
I can grab any guitar as long as the stays
of tune and and it sounds like you know, just

(01:41:01):
like you. You're gonna sound like you and your drums.
So's gonna sound like City on her drums, although she
prefers gretch only I see, I see. I'm just today,
uh just just to get into the mood for tonight.
It's been a long time, but I listened to Uh

(01:41:21):
Europa Uh Earth's Cry Heaven Smile Um way back, even
before I met the Roots. That was like a song
that I would always go to for inspiration and still
remains an inspiration to this day for me, I haven't
heard a long time. I listened to Today on the subway,

(01:41:42):
and I kid you not, I'm sure it has a
lot to do with things in this life I'm growing through.
But I wept. I wept openly on the subway listen
to that song. So I thank you for that moment.
And the other side of that, I want to know what,
uh what guitar was that? What? What amp? What? Do

(01:42:05):
you remember? What combination was? This is the version that
was from Moonflower. Okay you remember, yeah, it was. It
was the Less Fault that Neil Shaw and I got
at the same time a Don Weir's music shop, and
that was kind of like the man He's of San Francisco,
and I was fleeing. I was playing to a twin,
straight up, straight up to a twin, you know. Uh.

(01:42:28):
But the song, the melody came from watching somebody next
to me. She was she was she was gonna have
a bad acid trip, you know, and so she was
starting to freak out and get a get get like
a little, not a little, a lot, really really paranoid.
So I went doo doo, doo doo doo the mushroom

(01:42:50):
Ladies coming to town. So it's a song about a
mushroom lady, which is a shaman. You know. I never
put the lyrics on it, but my face. Everyone is
got to Barberi. He got to Barberi and played an
incredible version of oh yeah he My mom told me,
I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I like

(01:43:10):
his version better than yours. I said, thanks a lot, Mom. Wow,
did you ever play with Gao? Yes? Yes, we played
in Chicago and uh uh we played a couple of times. Man,
he knew I loved him. I adore him. I adore
him and pharaoll Sandeals because they both got that sound,

(01:43:32):
you know that sound. But hey, man, before I leave,
I do want to let you know that I'm gonna
invite you to uh please know that I'm gonna do
my best to put this thing jubilation an album for
sona Sharrock, only you know, with the baddest guitar players
out there, and and I'm and I feel really really

(01:43:54):
enthusiastic about it. You know, when you feel enthusiastic, you
get a lot of energy. So I want to honor
and celebrate my brother's son is Sharrock because I totally
adore him. Thank you, thank you, thank you for doing
our show. Um you dropped a lot of knowledge on us. Yeah,
it was, and you know we're gob smack because this

(01:44:17):
is totally out of the format that we've ever done
this show. But thank you forever you dropped knowledge and
now I want to drop as something supreme. We all
drop the acid supreme and you be all right? I

(01:44:39):
believe that. Can I just apologize to everybody because this
should have happened a while ago. But Carlo's true story.
I saw you and Cindy and Cafe Gratitude down the
street from my house like about a year ago, and
I froze and I couldn't speak. So I'm glad everything
happens for a reason. It's always pick up to Leo
and Aaron for making this happen, because make sure that
happened a little sooner. But y'all look amazing together. It's

(01:45:00):
just a beautiful rock and roll fucking just thank you Santa,
ladies and gentlemen. This is a course love supreme. Kirk,
Thank you, k Thank you for joining us than pleasure.
We will see you on the next go round. Thank you, yo.

(01:45:22):
What's up? This is fonte. Make sure you keep up
with us on Instagram at QLs and let us know
what you think and who should be next to sit
down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast
all Right Wars Love Supreme is a production of my

(01:45:42):
heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit
the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.

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