Dawnn Lewis

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Question. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Mm hmmm, Suprema subprema, role call, subprema, subprema, roll call, subdrema, subprema,
role called, subprema subprema roll call. What's Love Supreme? Yeah?

(00:23):
The podcast chant Yeah here with Don Lewis. Yeah, I'm
not asking about cramps. Suprema role call, subprema role call.
My name is Sugar, sweet as a muffin. Yeah, but
I ain't puffing. Yeah, round Grandma makes stuffing suprema roll call, suma,

(00:52):
suprema role call. My name's boss Bill. Yeah, keep keep
keeping on. Yeah. In the words, it's where it is
keeping there is in this song. Roll call sure, role call.
My name is Dawn. You can call me j Lisa,

(01:13):
you can call me slma. Just call men health there
right now, call call call, roll call Wow. And I'm

(01:35):
flying your background vocals into every role call we can.
You You outdid Charlie Wilson q TIP trying to go
rogue on the ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another soon
to be classic episode of q LS. I'm your host.
Quest Love with Me Today is the legendary Sugar Steve. Hey,

(01:58):
I upgraded you to lege day. Appreciate that. Yeah, figure,
gonna update my resume right now, my bio and put
legendary at the top. You're the legendary Sugar Steve. You
know the songs for everything Sugar already, Hunt Hunted. Do
we have to pay for the archies? Yeah? I don't know. Okay, anyway,
they're all gone. We got the boss bosses, Boss Bill, Yeah,

(02:24):
will you marry? Maybe I'm only kidding, don't you know?
I was thinking about all right, so, do we have
a theme for two negligent fathers who walk out on
their kids going out for cigarettes for hide out in
the world smoking cigarettes. They promise they'd be back, but

(02:47):
you know, I don't know if it's quiet again. Uh,
if it's a rather quieter on here, Uh, it's because
has also taken up smoking cigarettes, and she went out
and said she'll be back momentarily, So we'll trust that
she will be back. Next episode, Ladies and Gentlemen, Today,

(03:08):
as I said earlier, should be a rather amazing episode.
Um our guests, is a renaissance woman. You know, some
we always hear the term like a renaissance man or whatever,
but I'd rarely hear women described in the same sort
of superlatives if if you will, I will say she's multifaceted,

(03:30):
multi talented pretty much as a singer, songwriter, as an actress,
be at whatever medium of stage, television, movies, um. With
a gazillion impressive credit to boot, I will personally say
that she's probably part of the most life changing ensemble

(03:52):
for me personally speaking of her work on a different world,
ask Jalisa Vincent, which I could say single handedly inspired
me not even to go to college, but to be
more intelligent, Like that's how I can you know? That's
and I'm saying in the most uh, non eloquent way

(04:15):
possible because Steve is looking at me, like, who are
you right now? Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlow
Supreme Don Lewis, Hey, everybody, Wow, I don't truly humbled.
What a dutiful thing to say. Thank you so much.
I wasn't looking at you funny. I'm I'm taking it
in usually no you you give me. I'm wondering how

(04:37):
you know the last name of the character on the show,
like usually remember the first name Jelisa Jlisa Vincent, Taylor,
Oh say there you go, that's okay. How many names
did you have? You know what? What you have to
understand is, I know it's it's weird that having binged

(04:57):
it in probably a ten day period the entire series, UM,
I can't have time on my hands. Um when I'll know,
you know, I want to get my hair braided, traveling
whatnot in the jacuzzi, yes, yes, and at the local

(05:21):
wide not in my house because I can't afford one yet.
I will say that, yeah, the the show was definitely
way ahead of its time as far as like subject
matter and things that are still relevant today and whatnot.
But most importantly, I think that when it first came on,
I mean I don't think I had aspirations or even

(05:44):
new I was college material or that sort of thing.
So seeing that on television, UM, for me probably more
life changing than seeing The Cosby Show. So and I
know that you guys don't get enough praise for that,
so appreciate that. That's my fan worship, So thank you
so much. I did watch a Different World, But uh,

(06:08):
in reading up on it, it seems like that show
is created almost specifically to to to talk about issues
that weren't being talked about on the Cosby Show. More
more so than just like a vehicle for Lisa Bone
or spin off. It was. It was not so much
um comparatively to The Cosby Show, but just what wasn't
being talked about today and what particularly young people were

(06:29):
dealing with and faced with. You know, when you go
from the shelter of your parents home out into the
real world, all of a sudden, so many things start
smacking you in the face that nobody necessarily taught you
how to deal with. Yet it's there and in your life,
in your in your relationships, all of it. And they
wanted to keep it authentic to what we were dealing

(06:49):
with at the time. And uh, like you, I went
to college and had just graduated just a couple of
years before. But it wasn't until I started doing a
different word old that it clicked for me what an
HBCU was because we had those commercials of mind is
a terrible thing to waste with a person of color,
and you think, well, that makes sense, everybody should get
into edged education. I didn't put two and two together

(07:12):
that that was talking about a specific grouping of schools
of higher learning for people of color, for af African Americans,
so even those of us who were in the show.
We're learning lessons while we were doing the show. And
my name, I had never heard the name Jelisa before,
but I was actually named after the wife of one

(07:33):
of Mr Cosby's best friends, Jelisa Hazard. And my last name, Vincent,
was the last name of one of our stage managers,
Chuck Vincent. I was wondered about that. Yeah, Chuck, Chuck Vincent's.
He was naming people after every everybody. Sindbad was named
after Walt Hazard, coach Walter Oaks. Yeah, people all named
after some after people. And there was there's an episode

(07:54):
where Ron mentioned Dad Monfort by name and he was
like a producer on the Shingad was one of our
executive producer his first season and that was one of
the um first the pioneers of writing for traditionally white
shows when he wrote on Mash. He wrote for several
different shows and was the executive producer. So we we
miss him, miss him dealing. Yeah, Dad was a trailblazer.

(08:16):
So where were you? Where were you born? Are you
corner raised? Bed Style? We moved six times but always
in Brooklyn. So when from bed styde Park Slope back
to bed Sty to Crown Heights and ultimately Flatbush about
five blocks from Brooklyn College. Um, what was your Brooklyn experience?

(08:37):
I always ask when whenever Brooklyn Knights come on the show,
and I asked, are they, you know, surprised at how
it's transformed since then? Like, oh, yeah, when I was
coming up in Brooklyn, the neighbors I had now are
not the neighbors I had then. Let that way, No,

(08:57):
Martin right now, while I'm here working, I'm up in Harlem,
and Harlem would it used to be either? I went
to high school in home. I went that was when
music and Art was up on a hundred and thirty
fifth Street and Convent, So that was where I went
went to high school. From the last stop the junction
in Brooklyn all the way to a hundred thirty fifth
Street in Harlem. That's about an hour and twenty minutes

(09:20):
for me to get to school every day. Wake up,
I don't even remember. I don't know if I was
awake when I woke up. I just knew I got
on the train. No, I got on the number. Okay,
they switched the numbers because the three and the four
used to go to Flatbush and the two and the
five used to go to New Lots and Utica. So
it took me like fourteen fifteen years to even be

(09:41):
willing to ride this subway again once. Once I moved
to California and I knew, I knew where I was going, child,
those trains took me in all kinds of wrong directions.
I was like, what is happening right now? When did
the two start going to Flatbush? When did that happen?
But no? So yeah, about an hour twenty minutes every
day to get up to high school. So that was
when music and art and performing arts were in two separate,

(10:04):
separate buildings. Music and art was where you did vocal music,
progressive instrumentals like the jazz band. UM. Photographic and portrait arts,
you know, visual arts and performing arts was down in
Times Square and that was where you had traditional dance training.
UM was on a thing around forty six Street or
some something like that. So this the LaGuardia School a

(10:27):
fame fame. So about two years after my graduation, class
was when they put everybody in one building and now
that's the building that's in Lincoln Center. So Brooklyn was
very different, UM, humble, honest, grounded, you know, challenging, I
was bullied a lot when I was a kid, but
I was also popular. I was I was bullied because

(10:48):
I was popular, if that makes sense. So you never
had the I'm gonna get my brother. Oh yeah I did,
and I had I'm the only girl and I have
three brothers, and yeah, they could torment me all they wanted,
but no one could mess with their little little sis sister.
So everybody, no, I'm third, I'm third, too older. And

(11:09):
one younger who thinks he's older. I'm sorry. I called
your grandma. I'm not sorry. Sorry, you're not sorry. So
was it a creative household and musical house? I'm the
only one. I'm the only one. One of my older
brothers ultimately got it into music, and then he started
a family, so he got a regular nine to five job.

(11:32):
He was a paralegal. Um now he's an I t
and now he recently retired. So now he plays bass
in a in a trio whenever they feel like it's
on on week weekends and clubs and stuff. But my
oldest brother, UM grew to be a fireman, so he's
a firefighter. Now he works as a fire marshal and
head security for a building on Park Avenue, and my

(11:53):
younger brother went into loss. He has his own law firm.
And then there's me singing and dancing and stuff. Okay,
was it was it encouraged or was it just it
was in courage because again, like like I said, I
had three brothers and my family is from South America,
so very different traditional values of what is appropriate for

(12:13):
a young girl to do and for a young boy
to do. But at the same time I wasn't allowed
to do anything unless my brothers took me. Were your
first generation born, first generation American citizen, yes, and your
parents are Guyanese South South America, Guyana, So they came
up and my mom one day, I was seven, very tall,
athletic because I was playing handball. That's what you did

(12:35):
in Brooklyn. You played handball, stickball, skellies in the industry.
Skellies in the Indus. Kellies is a stool. It's street pool,
but you play it with with bottle tops and you
pluck it. The amount of times I got in trouble

(12:55):
for stealing milk caps my grandmom's milk, grow a ball
at or something, try and flip it. You would take
the milk caps and felling tracks or a quarter to
give us some more weight. Yes, yeah, I would go
to the street first. I would take your spoons, which
is a no no. Go out in the street, find
a grease spot and then dig for tar of the

(13:17):
street and put it inside the caps. And then we
scrubbed the cap on sidewalks and go smooth. Freeze it
at night and you just dream. Put in a freezer
and then you dream. So think of a milk cap
with t like a hockey puck. Hockey puck. This is
why there's no black hockey players. They're all playing. So
what you do is you draw this big board and

(13:39):
there were numbers strategically placed around the board, and you
shoot your your cap from number to number in sequential order.
This is a very cultural difference. We had marbles, no
marbles and Brooklyn they kill small children, they swallow them
and die. Okay, couldn't afford. Yes, you're right, so you

(14:08):
shoot them around the board. And the thing was when
it rained, that's when parents got really pissed because we
had parquet floors in our house. So we took that
same chalk and would draw Skelly's boards indoors and on
my mom's parquet floors. We would draw our Skelly boards.
Well I'm here, oh I ran, I'm faster than my mom.

(14:30):
She only caught me half. Can I tell you it
is my dream man, just between night and like like
I mean, me and my cousin would dream at night
like your ways to get the Sean Riley family like
to knock there. They had the best caps ever, it like,

(14:53):
and you couldn't get the milk tops with the stickers
on them because then that would not give you tracks.
And yes, yo, man, it was an art to play.
It was fantastic. Between speaking in South America, there's there's
a you know, there's a tag tournament in South America,

(15:15):
like for real, like think of those like what are
those shows where like Ultimate Warrior like that sort of thing. Yeah,
but they have it for tag. For tag, they imagine
like a playground where literally like a guy's chasing you
and you gotta like jump over a monkey bar and
you know there's like obstacles. They're like you might get

(15:36):
your head knocked off. But so coming home from fifth grade, okay,
I want that right exactly, running home to fifth grade,
I want that for Skelly, like you just pay alright.
So we played stick that's where you shave half the ball.
No stickball, you take you and you use it as

(15:57):
a bat. And remember the pink spalding balls to balls.
That was the ball that you would use and you
would pop it or punch ball, because if you couldn't
afford a stick, you would take the ball punch it.
You would take the ball and punch it and you
would run run the basis. So we were very creative children,

(16:19):
thank you. We would. We didn't need expensive things like marble.
So you would play with the pink ball. See we
would take a razor and then yeah, gets see little
children in my neighborhood weren't allowed to play with razors. Well,
we would have to make it. We would cut it
in half. In Philadelphia, you played stickball with half I guess.

(16:42):
So you wouldn't bring a window. Oh we didn't care,
so you would have to. You would throw half of
a tennis ball or half of a one of those
pink bouncy and then play stickball that way. Yeah, yeah,
we can just make the set. We ain't even get
in then, which you ever play king ball? Know? What's

(17:08):
king king ball? Kingball is like all right, if you
have a sidewalk. It's it's sort of like, uh, you
need four people to play it, and each person gets
a designated square of a sidewalk. Think of like tennis
with a basketball, So the goal is not to hit

(17:30):
the boundary of the sidewalk. It's a long explo sounds
like it. I feel like I need to be eight
years old to understand what it's all thing. Okay, wait, okay.
Two more favorite games as a kid? Hot Water low water?
Did you play hot water lower You use a rope
and you laid on the ground and you take a

(17:52):
turn stepping over. Then still, after everybody goes, you raise
it a little high and then and then you start
and then it becomes like the high jump in then
one concrete not safe, and then the other. What's your
version of the well? I was just that just sounds
like the reverse of limbo limbo limbo exactly exactly, because
your Caribbean roots catch a girl, freaking girl, anything else

(18:16):
that's called something else, that's the child molestation. Alright, one
more game. How about hot peas and butter. I've heard
this referred to you in every rap song, but never
knew what butter is. You would take a belt and
you would hide it somewhere okay, and you were the
person who was it in control of hiding it. Then

(18:38):
everyone else had to go and try to find the belt.
And so if people were anywhere near where you hit,
you go hot hot hot, if they went away cold cold, cold,
So you would yell after the belt was hit hot,
peas and butter, come and get use up, and then
people would go looking for it and reverse. But come
and get yourself. And then people would go and be

(19:00):
looking for the belt. And whoever found the belt, you
tried to keep it hit and then you would run
and hit everybody with Ye I wasn't I was not
playing that game, and then you had to run and
not get hit with them. That don't sound fun, sounds

(19:20):
like my child. It was hilarious, like me trying to
hide a belt from somebody. I do that three weeks
before every report. So what do you all? Right? So
what do you play those games anymore? You're so multifaceted

(19:43):
with your talent? What do you consider yourself is at
least at fourteen fifteen when you're developing your talent? Are
you a singer? Are you a poet? Are you an actress?
Are you dancer like I was all of it. Quite frankly,
I was. I was singing. I started singing at four,
I was lead singer in a band at fourteen. Um

(20:05):
I had my about four or five poems published in
a compilation book of young writers. By the time I
was fifteen, I was dancing on the stage of Carnegie
Hall in Brooklyn Academy and Music by time I was nine.
So I was, I was all of this. I never
considered that I had to choose what I believed in.

(20:26):
What the environment I was raised in, uh was that
you had to maximize everything. It was called being a
trip triple threat. You had to sing, dance, and act
in order to be viable in the business. And you
asked me, was it encouraged? You know, going back to
how we got into childhood? Game was my mother looked
at me. I was seven years old, really tall, really fit,

(20:47):
playing all these games with all these boys and everybody
in the street. She realized, you know what, I have
to get my child out of the middle of all
of these boys and give her something that she can
do on her own. And my mom had a really
great friend and Mrs Green, who had a daughter who
was about five six years older than I was, who
was dancing. So she took me to a dance recital

(21:09):
at the Academy of Music and I say, Ma, I
want to do that. She said, are you sure? I
said yes, So she enrolled me a dance class. And
I was riding the bus from my house which was
in on mid Where were we at that time. We
were on Midwood Street in Crown Heights at that time,
and I had to walk three blocks over to the

(21:29):
bus on New York Avenue get on the bus. At
a certain times, I could ride to the next stop
where this young lady would get on the bus with
me and we would ride down to Pacific Street and
Saratoga to miss E Lane Christians Dance Studio. And I
did that once a week until I was fifteen years old.

(21:50):
It was on Pacific right near Sarah Saratoga, So at
that young age, I was on the city bus going
to them from dance classes. So that was kind of
how that started for me, was my mom wanted to
encourage me to have my own thing that took me
out of the middle of being around all those boys
all of the time. Do you find, sorry, Mary, do

(22:10):
you find that that whole way of thought is sort
of gone. Where the triple threat thing because it seems
like so many of of our of the people in
the past who have who were an entertainment um, we're
triple threats. And it's is that is that still a
prevalent way of of looking at things? You know? I

(22:30):
don't know that it's a prevalent way of looking at things.
What I have learned is that the way the business
continues to evolve, the powers that be, the them or
the they are more comfortable putting you into a box.
So I know a lot of people who you see
starring on television as actors are really incredible singers or dancers,

(22:51):
and you you you learned when they get the opportunity
that they have all these other gifts. But because of
the way the industry is now, they kind of say, well,
if we want a dramatic lead, we need to hire
this person. If we want to comedically, we need to
hire this person. So you don't necessarily get to know
what other p people do. But no, I don't think
it's a requirement like it used to be. I don't

(23:12):
think so, oh you google and stuff only because your
story is very similar to Prodigy mom deeps. I was
trying to figure out if whether or not that was
his grandmother's dance studio. Oh, okay, but it wasn't. It wasn't.
Well wait, I still don't know, because now I almost

(23:34):
feel like it is the stories to who used to
be a big dancer at the Cotton Club. She danced
with Bill rob Robinson and you know all of that.
So that was her legacy and she passed on us.
And we were there all day on Saturday doing jazz,
tap ballet, African dance. And on Saturday mornings you could

(23:57):
always count on at least two thirds of the students
running into the kitchen where the TV was to watch Soldier.
So that's the dance part. So how did you How
did you start with the singing and the act The
singing I started at four, Uh, I just saying what
I used to love musical movies. I still do music.

(24:20):
And they were mused. There were movies that would come
on every year, like The Wizard of Oz, March of
the Wooden Soldiers, it was, you know, stormy Weather. There
were different movies that would come on. You could count
on it at certain times of the year. So I
would sing along. I knew all the songs, I knew
all the dances. I knew all of it there in
my living room. And uh, my mom used to teach.
She was a sussustitute teacher at an elementary school not

(24:42):
far from from the house. So after kindergarten, I would
go and sit at the school in a way for
my mom to be done before I could go home.
And they were doing their their spring concert pageant and
I asked if I could be in it, and all
the teachers knew I could sing. I was young, I
was cute. It was four going on five, and they said, yes,
you can be in the concert. And I worked on
the song getting to know You from from the King,

(25:03):
and I with hand gester exactly, you're saying it better
than I did Pully. But then we got to the
concert and I was amazing. I have to admit. I
was phenomenal in the rehearsals. And I got on stage
and saw other people and still on stage and froze.

(25:26):
It's like there are people here watching me. And I
got the first few words out and I stood there
and the teacher was belown me, trying to remind me
to move my side. I painfully got through it, and
then they said okay, alright, great, and then they sat
down and then I started crying. It's like, I can
do it better. Please let me look. Just sit down,
a little girl, Just sit sit down. And so I

(25:46):
taught myself to never be that frightened again. That was
the first and last time I'd ever scared myself so
much that I couldn't do what I was really desiring
to do. Their photos. This is highly unusual because normally
there's I guess the good word is uh, light encouragement.

(26:07):
The bad word is sort of like Joe Jackson esque,
like there's always a drill sergeant. But this is this
is a highly unusual to hear that confidence coming from
someone under the age of ten, that it isn't enforced
from No, my mom wasn't. That was not my mom.

(26:27):
My mom was like just they had of trouble. Okay,
I gotta go to work. They out of trouble. I
gotta go to work. And uh my brothers were like, yeah,
she's real cute, but we we need to need her
now to play handball. Don't we need you to run
the fourth leg in the relay? I was like, don okay,
that's great. To get off your toe to toe shoes
and coming over here and run this race because this
boy don't believe you. You can beat them. And I

(26:47):
got five dollars on you. It's pretty fast. Yeah, I
ran track too. So you graduated high school? What? What age?
What youre? I was sixteen when I graduated from high school.
You got skipped. I got skipped twice. I was in
the first grade for about six months and went right

(27:08):
to second grade, and um then I never went to
eighth grade. I went from seventh grade to ninth grade.
She's like the best of every artist we ever had.
So yeah, So I graduated high school at sixteen, like
I said, going to school up in Harlem, and had
already been singing in bands and clubs and such, and uh,

(27:32):
you know, young and cute. But I knew I wanted
to do this as a career, and I also knew
I wanted to get out of New York. My mom
and I had a really contententious relationship at the time.
You know, she's from a different country with different values
and understanding of how things are supposed to be done.
And again, like I said, there were beliefs of what
was appropriate for a girl and what was appropriate for
a boy and boys rule in those South American cultures,

(27:55):
and so in her eyes, you should have been getting
ready for her husband, housewife. You know never got that speech.
I never never got. Yeah, very very My family is
Seventh day Adventist. Yeah wait a minute, it's not adding up. Yeah, well,
there you go. So there's more to the story. There's
more to this, I am there you go. No, Well,

(28:17):
we had devotions at home every day. My mom had
us read the Bible, read scripture. Um, yeah, seeing hymns
when when we could. Because okay, see you get into
a whole other part of the story. The reality is
my going to dance class every Saturday was a real
issue for the family. It caused real problems. Um, My mom,

(28:38):
like I said, saw it as a way to help
save and encourage and empower me. My family would tell
my mom and tell me even when I was small,
they're going the extended family, not not my brother's not.
You know. The truth is is that you are sending
this child straight to hell by not having her in church, etcetera, etcetera,

(29:00):
and sending her into the demons pit. This entertainment stuff
is where the devil lives. Etcetera, etcetera. How do you
tell that to a seven year old child? But they
managed um along the way. Uh, Like I said, my
mom really reinforced in us that we have what we
have by the grace of God, and that it is
a blessing, it is not a curse. I wouldn't be
able to do what I do if it wasn't a

(29:21):
gift from God. So look at it that way, and
please shut out the other noise. And ultimately, as we grew,
um the family stop saying certain things. But you know,
you couldn't ignore or forget really the riff that was caused,
in the pain that that was caused. But you know,
everybody grows, you learn, you love, you forgive, and you

(29:42):
realize that there are good things that come out of whatever,
as long as that's what you're intent is. I was
just gonna say, not even that harp on it, but
I was just like, That's why I was so amazed.
I was like, wait a minute, I've never heard of
a situation in which, especially with a black household, in
which like religion or some sort of obstacle is sort

(30:07):
of thrown in your path of you finding your talent.
There were a few. Okay, So the guys in Take six,
who we ultimately became really great friends, we used to
be able to share those kinds of stories because their
adventist Also what you didn't know that, Yes, the guys
in Take six were discipline with their you know, so

(30:28):
we were able to talk about that because our upbringing
stories were very, very similar. But you know, but now
that we are where we are, we use our platform
to inspire, empower to be a blessing at least, you
hope so to others. You know, in a way that
I may not have been received had I not taken
this journey, you know what I mean to be so

(30:50):
young as a graduate of high school. However was it
to adjust to adult life? Do you know what? I
got thrown into the deep end because I left New
York and went to school down at the University of
Miami in Miami at sixteen, and the university almost did
not accept me because I was so young. Yeah, but
I had a grandmother who helped raise us. Actually we

(31:13):
lived with my grandmother for almost two years when we
were younger. That's a whole other story how we ended
up there. Uh, but to go to college, my mom
couldn't afford to send me. My dad would have been
able to help, but he chose not to. Um He's like,
you're you're too young, You're gonna go get pregnant and
all of that. And I was like, but you know,

(31:35):
you haven't lived in our house since I was seven man,
so whatever. So I got another aunt to co sign
for a student loan for me, and I packed my
stuff and I left and they turned around and go,
wait she really left? I said, yeah, I told you
I was leaving. I'm going. So I went to college.
Um so between student loans, college works, work study was
how I paid for school. And uh, so I got

(31:56):
there and now I'm responsible to pay back alone. I'm
responsible to pay for my tuition, my room and board
as well as you know, get through my classes. And
as a performance major. I went as a voice made major,
so in music and art. I was singing opera, so
I was classically trained for many years. I played cello

(32:16):
for almost seven years. He didn't have that on good
What did you miss? I played cello for about seven
years and uh, saying operas And when I went to
U have M when they advised you for your major,
that was back in the day when you had cards,
and they would write, and you have to take this classes,
and you get a signature from your departpartment head to

(32:37):
authorize you to go and register for these classes. They
wrote a bunch of classes I had already taken in
high school, like music theory and sight singing and all
those kinds of things. So I refused to take them again.
So when I left her, don't judge me. Why no, man, Look,
this is money. The college is expensive colleges. But this

(32:59):
is this is what I did. When I left her office,
I said thank you very much. And it wasn't my fault.
She wrote it in pencil. I just happened to have
a race in my back. So because I'm a good student,
I came to school prepared, so I took my race prepared. No,
so I raised half of what she gave me, like
music theory one on one, in sight rancim shot not

(33:21):
taking that. I'm not taking that, and I wrote in
dance classes, I wrote in acting classes, and I made
my own curriculum my pencil and I made my own curriculum.
And I was like, that's more like it, because that
was what I was already accustomed to doing going to
dance class regularly, well not entirely. About two two and

(33:46):
a half months into school, I got called into the
dean's office like Clint like. I called to the dean's
office and she said, okay, we were concerned about admitting
you in the first place, and this is going to
be your one and only warning. I said, what said
we're about to say and send you home? I said,
well why, They said, because you're not going to classes.

(34:08):
We can't have that, young lady, Dada, da dada. I said, well,
of course, I'm going to my class and I'm going
to my classes. I'm pulling a four point of g
p A. I don't understand the problem. Well, you haven't
been to this class, this class, this class, and this class.
I'm not in that class. I'm in this class, this class,
this class. And say, well, who told you to do that?
When nobody told me to do it is my money.
I'm gonna take the class. I want my friend pencil.

(34:29):
You know, I've loved empowered at sixteen years old. So
she made me sitting. So she made me sitting for
a minute and then call me back in the office
and said, okay, young lady, you had no way of
knowing this, but the School of Music and the School
of Fine Arts had been in conversations for like a
couple of years about starting a new degree program for

(34:52):
people like you. So would you be interested in being
the guinea pig for this new degree program? And I said, well,
what would I have to do? Just basically what you
already doing? Like oh, they had to respect it. And
I said, well, okay, then all right, so what happens now?
Can I Can I go? She goes, oh no, no, no, no,
no no, you need to prepare. You have four days

(35:13):
to prepare for an audition. I said, audition for what
she said, so we can officially start this this degree program.
So I had to do a forty five minute jury
for the entire faculty of the School of Music and
the School of Fine Arts. I had to choreograph a dance.
I had to do a comedic and a dramatic monologue.
I had to do arias in French an Italian. I

(35:36):
had to do a Broadway show tune. I had to
do a jazz tune. Um. There was one other thing
I can't remember what I had to do. Yeah, took
forty five minutes one day. All of it. I had
four days to to prepare. Well, they's stacking to be like, well,
I don't know, I don't know. But what ended up
resulting out of that was after the jury, they were

(35:59):
now officially a to start this degree program. So I'm
the founder and first graduate of the musical theater degree
program at the university. They no, no, and even after
even and after a few years they conveniently forget to
mention that I had anything to do with it. Every
now and then it comes up or you know whatever.

(36:22):
But yeah, so that year that's been going thirty plus
years strong. Through the School of Music, They've graduated Tony Winners,
Grammy Winners, Oscar Winners, um. And then the last four
or five years they've transferred from the School of Music
to the School of Fine Uts, Fine Arts and now
has the degree pro program. I was gonna ask in

(36:48):
Brooklyn growing up, Yes, Um, were there any other notable
Brooklyn nights that we would know now that you to
school with or like our next door neighbor, uh, Dwayne
what we call him Dwayne because his first name was Ralph.
Uh ended up being young Michael one good times. L Carter.

(37:13):
That's amazing, ye I saw him three months ago, Yeah,
three months ago, and he was our next next torn neighbor.
Other than that now, not not in my neighborhood, not
while I was there, So not the neighborhood kids weren't
even like like mine didn't We're playing stick and scan.

(37:34):
They didn't care. Oh but you know what I recently
found out. Um, a year or two ago, I was
doing This is Us, like one of my favorite shows
on television. And when I got there, I was so
excited to be I was happy to be there. And
the cast was like, oh my god, look who's on
our show? Can you take creatures with us? And I'm thinking, like,
because I was gonna have to take pictures with you guys.
So we're taking pictures and Susan Collecki Watson, who plays

(37:57):
the sister the wife on the show Ramball's wife. Isn't
she fantastic? She she hangs around because she was actually
finished before I was called in to work, so she
hung around to meet me. So we're taking selfies and
we're exchanging numbers and once we can send each other
the pictures that we take and we're sitting in my
trailer like talking for half an hour, so she finally leaves.

(38:19):
I get called to to the set and I call
a couple of friends of mine. They say, and I
told him what what the day was like, and they said,
Susan is my great friend and d and do La
Hill was like, that's my great friend, etcetera, etcetera. And
so I called her back. I said, I didn't know
you knew Dolt and she says, yes, he's a great friend.
And I said, okay, great. She called me back two
minutes later she said, okay, look, I'm not trying to

(38:39):
be weird or anything, but I sent the picture that
we took to my family and my brother text me
back and said, you know that as our cousin, right.
What I said, I'm sorry what she said? Yes, she said,
do you have aunt so and So? I said, I
don't know, I've never heard that name before. She said, well,
your aunt's so and so married my uncle so and
so and they live in Trinidad and this and that.

(39:02):
What's what that in the world? So I called my mom. Mom,
we have an answer. Yes, that's my first cousin. Shall
married a mon from Tennadash and never call him back again.
But this is nothing, just nothing, this, and that. So
I call her back and said, oh my gosh, we're
like second cousins. First, it's hilarious, and we keep talking.
Come to find out that she's from Brooklyn, grew up
within a mile of where I grew up in Brooklyn,

(39:24):
and still has family placed there. Now, yeah, that's crazy.
And honestly, you just answered another question from me always.
You know, you had a very convincing island accident that
you tried on a different world once. And now I

(39:45):
was like, she's really good because that's where my family
and I didn't know that at the time. Yes, so I,
as I mentioned, I was first generation America. My mom
was the oldest of eight, so one at a time.
She sponsored his siblings and her parents to come up
to this date. So now when all of our cousins,
when all of the cousins gets get together, all of
a sudden, all of us have acced your accents. Oh man,

(40:07):
all of a sudden, all of us have accents and
we're talking like our parents and such. Is really very
very funny. I see. So, by at least by twenty
did you have like focus? Okay, I want to be
a singer. Yeah, I was already doing it. But I
mean it's like you did everything at once. I was

(40:28):
I'm trying to figure out what has the edge? What
has the edge? Probably music, singing, singing and writing more
than anything, because that's what I was booking jobs as.
So what was your first? Well? You usually on the show,
I asked about your first Well, first of all, who
do you Who's your hero, your idol? You're you're when

(40:51):
as far as your craft is concerned, who do you
look up to? Wow? Um? I actually had a few,
actually had a few. Judy Garland was one early on.
It was amazing to me the power and passion in
her voice and when I would watch her movies. Again,
Remember I used to watch a lot of old movies
like Take Me to St. Louis and The Wizard of
Oz and all that kind of stuff, and we weren't

(41:13):
in a lot of those movies. We often had little,
small segments. So Lena Horne was a big influence to me.
The Nicholas Brothers were a huge influence to me. As
I got older, it was people like Gladys Knight and
Stevie Wonder, Elton John. You remember the first record you
ever purchased? No, I don't. I remember the first ones,

(41:35):
one of the first ones that my brother's purchased that
I used to like to play all the Yeah, yeah, yeah,
they bought him. I just played them. Um it was
the Rolling Stones and I remember it was go time
is on my side, Yes it is. I had no
idea what they were saying, but it was just a
funky line to me that they were into the Stones.

(41:55):
And Smokey Robinson. I remember those two being the first
record that I would pla a lot, And Smokey's record
that they had was if there's a smile on my face,
it's only that trying to fool the pole. But when
it comes down to tear, tear tears. Yeah. So yeah,
those those songs and songs like um, grazing in the

(42:17):
grasses a glass maybe Ken you did all those kinds
of things. You never knew what the really I could
dig a dig digause she could dig dig, They can
dig and thing be your first concert, uh, the one
that I botched? Yeah, and uh, thank you for reminding
me of that, like a moment of that very first concert. No.

(42:40):
I remember my very first Broadway show. It was The
Whiz and it was Stephanie Mills and by the time
she got to be a lion, I was a puddle.
She was absolutely phenomenal. I couldn't believe all of this
sound and all of this talent as a dancer, as
an actress was coming out of this little, tiny person.
And I looked that my grandmother and I was like,

(43:01):
that's why I want to do that. I want to
do that. And to quite frankly, you know, over the years,
some of your idols become your friends and your colleagues,
which to me just kind of really blows my mind.
The fact that when I met Gladys Knight and Lena Horn,
they knew my name, you know, Lena, Lena. I just
did there crying and people there, there's pictures the you

(43:23):
were on the show. I remember when she was on
the show. She she did a guest spot, but I
met her a few years before she got to do it.
It was at the opening night of Fences, and everybody
was crowding her, wanting to take her picture, wanting an autograph.
And I stood there like waiting my turn, like frozen.
And she looked and to everybody, wait, stop, excuse me,
excuse me, you come here, And I walked over to

(43:44):
her and she grabbed me by the face and said, baby,
you want that show? I want you. I said, still
show and she says that show. She says, y'all are
doing such a beautiful thing. Your name is Dawn, right,
And tears just started coming down my face and she said,
you keep doing what you were doing. I'm so proud
of you. And I could I really couldn't even speak,

(44:05):
and uh, fortunately somebody got a photo of us standing
there with this like huge grin on my face and uh, yeah,
it's crazy because you never think that they know you're
alive or anything. Why would you, But it's like you
people heard. People like her just inspired me to do
what it is I do now. And when you get

(44:26):
to know them and learn what they survived through and
what they over over overcame and what mattered to them
and how they used their voice and they did it
with grace and with power and with determination, it really
I could not have asked for better examples like her
and Gladys was like my auntie now and Natalie Cole
and Nancy Williams Wilson and Stevie as well, and uh,

(44:49):
to teach you how to do this thing with with
grace and with appreciation, because it could really take you
in a whole other space. If you're not careful, you
start to think it's all about you. Welcome back to
the Sugar Steve Show. So Steve, when you first met me, Um,
did you go back to New York after you graduated? Yeah?

(45:11):
You know, it was my habit that going back and going.
Like I said, I was bullied a lot in elementary school,
and my teachers were just such blessings and encouragement to
me that when I graduated from elementary school, and I
gotta give a shout out to Barbara Ames and Karen
Fogler to the most amazing teachers anyone could ever have.

(45:32):
They still come to everything I do today, to to
this day, since elementary school, since first grade, and Um,
Barbara Aims was actually one of the teachers. Barbara and
Karen were teachers of Lynn Manuel Miranda as well, and
he credits both of them as well as depositing into
his life to inspire him to do what he does.

(45:52):
So all of you teachers out there, mad love, mad love,
mad love. I know you know situations or tents or
can be in some schools these these days, but I
so appreciate you much love for all that you do
for inspiring and educating us and caring for us beyond beyond.
So anyway, so when I graduated and went to junior high,

(46:14):
I would come back to the elementary school just to
visit them and say hi. I would do Christmas concerts
and the faculty lounge, and then I would talk to
the kids and say, I used to sit right there
in this class, and don't be a bully, and if
anything happens to you, tell your t teacher because they
really want to help. And they go, okay, okay, what's
junior high school? Like? Okay, great? Then I went to
high school and I go back to my junior high

(46:34):
in elementary school, and this became my habit. When I
went to college, I came back. That was my habit.
Then after college, now I'm releasing records and doing shows
off and on Broadway. Then I book a TV show.
Now I'm in California. So when I get an opportunity,
I come back home, and so is my habit. I
went back to my school. I went back to music
and art. The difference was I used to do it

(46:56):
because it made me feel good and stay connected and grounded.
This time, I walked in the lobby of the school.
It's like, oh my god, it's Julisa, and kids came
from everywhere and they swarmed me in the lobby. They
had to get security and the police to escort me
to the principal's office. Then they made an announcement, we
need you to please get out of the hallways, go

(47:16):
back to your class. Miss Louis will come and see you,
but you need to go back to your classes. So
they had an extended day of school that day, and
I literally to every every class and answer questions because
in the place like music and art, I'm living the
dream that everybody in that school has. So that's what
made a mental shift for me that I actually had

(47:39):
something to offer, that it wasn't just about me, but
that I could hopefully answer some questions and be a
support or an encouragement to somebody else. See, you've achieved
something that I just recently got to get a taste of.
Because early in my career, like they would have me
come and speak to schools or whatever, but I would

(48:00):
get like questions, like you over there, yeah, so do
you know like real famous people? Do you know Andre
three thousand. Yeah, do you know Ericabato? Yeah, I produced
a first record. You did what? And literally so it's
like kids are so cool. I hated. I hated until

(48:25):
until my school. Well, first of all, I had to
raise money for them, like I gave him a whole grip.
I raised money for them, and then like they threw
like me and Tarika, you know, the Roots day or whatever,
and then I felt like semi validated, like oh, welcome back.
But it came at a price. But I always that

(48:47):
whole like go back to school and speech to this
students they love you and like kids like no, they
just want to know if I know Little Wayne, Like
all the questions are hilarious. Well, I just got connected
with a group of U of M students recently, literally
as yesterday on Monday, the U of M. There's the
seniors from the drama department. We're up here doing a

(49:10):
performance a showcase you know, for I guess casting directors
and etcetera. Because they're about to go into the world
and want to do this profession fessionally. So I got
uh invited to go to the showcase. So I went,
and I've gone back to the U A couple of
times over the years and done master classes and things
like like that. So I went and saw it. So
I was asking while they were in New York if
they were going to go see any shows, and they said, well,

(49:32):
you know, we're gonna try. But I learned ultimately that
the kids had to buy their own tickets for whatever
Broadway show they wanted to see. And we all know
these tickets are not inexpensive. They are not. So um.
I got together with our company manager and since I
got into this motivational empowerment thing, I've been doing it
now for what forty years. When I learned it was

(49:53):
called motivational speaking. But about four years ago I started
my own nonprofit organization, the New Day Foundation, So Dawn, see,
I actually brought materials for you. So that's what I

(50:14):
found foundation does. We do programs all year round for
teen boys teen girls. Sometimes we do events with them together. Annually.
We have a financial literacy and technology conference that's about
the whole day, seven hours long. We give about scholarships
and new computers. Well, what we did on behalf of
the Foundation this time was we bought tickets for all

(50:36):
of the seniors to come and see Tina yesterday nice.
So they came and saw Tina, and then after the show,
I met with them and we had kind of a
talk back for about an hour and a half where
I was telling them about the journey and answering questions.
That's so cool incident, by the way, that that was
probably one of the best surprises I had. I mean,

(50:57):
I was thinking my mother to see Teena just for
like Chris, but I didn't bother to even like look
at the plate lettle to see if there's anybody I knew, whatnot.
And you came out and it was such a slow
like wait a minute, like it was a great thing
to see you want doing that? Wow, man, I want.
I want to get to your professional career. But I

(51:20):
know that you know, you made music in New York
before you started acting, and I know that you've had
to interact it with I. I want to know what
eighties we pounding the pavement? She was there? No, no, no, no,
I'm not asking about Latin Corner this pastor. But I'm

(51:42):
saying that what was pursuing a music career in the
first half of the eighties in New York, Like you
know what it was? It was tricky, it was real tricky. Um,
you know we have a me too movement and all
that stuff going on on now, and you hear all
kinds of things. Yeah, I know, I'm so a few perfect.

(52:03):
You found that, you bastard? Where did you find it?
I have my I have my resources the government. What
we are referring to is Bill has in his hot
little hands a copy of my very first single, and
it's an LP and it was on Dalmatian Records, an

(52:24):
independent Right Record Late label, and the song was called
Funky Thing t N j n G. Did you name? Yeah?
I wrote it and no, no, no, I mean Funky Thing.
I'm talking about Dalmatian Records. No, that was the name
of the Right Record Late label. Um, I was actually okay,
oh gosh, So you gotta get down. We had to

(52:51):
come on now y'all know nothing about this. And first
name basis just come on, d A W N N
record w W and w ends double come on. So

(53:14):
wh uh. Two guys Um Kenny and Charlie, Charlie Earnest
Kenny Pollock and Charlie Earnest Kenny I went to college with.
And the story behind this is that we were called
in to play for a jazz violinist. It was his
session and he was having trouble setting up his his violin,

(53:36):
equing it, etcetera. So Kenny and Charlie just went into
this groove and they just started playing and I just
started singing all of that. Every single word was freestyle.
It was just me singing. We were just singing. I
was just singing, making up lyrics as I was flowing.

(53:57):
And there we went. And when the when the violinist
was finally ready, the engineer said, before we start, I
want you all to come in here in the booth
and we're like, okay, so I don't want you to
listen to something, and he pushed play and that was
what you heard and we were like what we were Yeah,
that's slide, that's funny, that's funky. And he signed me
right there. So we went back and then actually recorded.

(54:21):
Never happened. You're like the walking uh sonification of stepping
out on faith. It was well praised that it was.
It was great and it was so much fun. It
was I mean, I was just saying, I don't know
what I was saying. We were just going four, so
I was what, Yeah, so were you pursuing a recording? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(54:47):
So I would do the rounds with with my demo
tapes and uh performing at different um showcases like for
Capitol Records and CBS, etcetera. And charted. This song charted
on Billboard at money Mr Nelson, Nelson George Billboard Magazine.
We came in at twenty. There was another song that
I did called from the Bottom Up and I was

(55:08):
a little I was a little feisty young lady, and
you were not gonna find it because I tried to
find it my brother, my mother because my brother played
bass on it, and I was like, dude, do you
have a copy of that song? And he hasn't responded,
so I know I do, but it's it's back on
my computer and in my dat collection back in But

(55:35):
from the Bottom Up I sang at the Apollo for
Amateur Night and one Amateur Night that Wee Can had
to come back the next week as a special special
guest for Amateur Night. And from the Bottom Up was
another song I sang when Shalamar was looking for someone
to replace Jody Watley and they had a competition at

(55:55):
Leviticus and I was an office tempt in the World
Trades at the time, and I heard it on w
b LS that they were having a competition at Leviticus.
So I called my job. I said, you're gonna have
to get a tempt for the tempt because I ain't
coming to day. And they knew what I wanted to
aspire to, and they said, don gold and go on
and get them going. Do you do your best? So

(56:16):
I went and we were at Leviticus. I had my cassette,
my little track in my hand, played it from the
bottom up and uh, I sang that. And ultimately, long
story short, that was when I met Howard Hewitt and
Mickey Free and we have been friends ever since. I
won for New York. It was like an early version
of Star Search. So women from all around the country,

(56:37):
from l A, Chicago, Atlanta, we all met in l
A at Circus Circus and we had the competition there
and we performed in de Lisa Davis was noted as
the winner, and the audience went wild, like no New York,
New York, New York. So did Griffy. Did Griffey says, okay, no, no,

(56:59):
calm down, come to we're gonna start. Did Griffy, I'm sorry? Why?
Why wait? Where's my I'm sorry the stories we've heard.
We could do a whole and that was sold our records.

(57:19):
So they said, now we're going to start a new
girl group with the girl from New York, the girl
from Texas and the girlfriend I want to say Chicago.
And later we learned so he was like, that's all right,
I got my own deal. I don't have to be
part of someone else's deal. And we so we started
calling the label Crickets Crickets. That's when you learned that
it was just a publicity stuff, do it? So yeah, no,

(57:40):
that was what I wanted to do. Um was be
a recording artist or star on Broadway, all of that.
So TV was the one thing I was not pursuing
during that time period. I know, this is the time
for like Leroy Burgess or Kashif or good friends. Yes, Kaus,
she was a friend Luther. I I got got to know.

(58:01):
I knew everybody in his band. I wanted to be
a Luther girl so bad. Brenda White, who would always
sing the bottom Um was taking a leave for I
forget what the reason was, but she's like doing Luther
Loves You. They're having auditions. You should come an audition.
So it's me. Brenda was there, Lesate, Lisa Ficier Paulette
was there, and Luther was there. And so we're singing

(58:24):
and I knew all the choreography. Stop, stopped to Love,
then go on the road. I was crushing it, and
then it was done. Lutheran came put his arm around me,
his baby. You know I love you, right? I said yeah.
He said, but I need a little more finesse and
a little less soul trained. I was mortified, mortified, And
a month later I booked a different world. So I
was like by Luther, girl by and the no. But

(58:50):
then once I booked the show, he says, you know
you're only money, right? I said why? He said, because
if I had hired you, you you wouldn't have been able
to do that show. So thank you very much. You welcome.
So he's cool people. So a different world. How does
this wind up in your lap? I don't know that
why I'm up in my lap? Or I chased it down? Yeah.
I was doing the national tour of a Broadway show

(59:12):
called The Tap Dance Kid with one of my idols,
Harold Nicholas of the Nicholas and do lay Hill, who
was ten at the time, who is now grown to
be this incredible man and talented. Yes, he was our
our kid. Yes, well, Alfonso was on Broadway. Sebion stayed
in New York on Broadway. Dole came with us out

(59:33):
on the road. So there was never told me there
was an amazing, amazing, amazing tap dancer. Alright, he really,
he really is. He's a phenomenal taper. So we were
all tapping, singing, dancing. So I had a principal role
in that show. Well, the people who cast that show,
it was called Hughes Moss Casting. There you go, There

(59:55):
you go. They also cast The Cosby Show. So while
we were on the road, I heard they were going
to be doing a spin off of The Cosby Show.
So I started calling the office to ask if I
could audition, and they were like, no, we want everyone
to be Lisa's age. I said, well, everybody can't be
a freshman. Somebody's gotta be a sophomore or a junior.
And we're only just like two three years apart in
the age. Um, So begging, begging, begging, Okay, the tour ends,

(01:00:19):
I'm still begging and they say no, Dawn, no, So
I begged for like three months like okay, fine, and
now that we're off the road, I'm sending out my
head shot and resumes, Okay, I've been doing a Broadway show,
this show that I should be able to get an agent. Crickets.
No one returned to call. No nothing, nothing, nothing. Out
of the blue, one day, Hughes Moss calls me back
and says, Okay, are you still interested in auditioning? Can

(01:00:42):
you come in tomorrow? Say yeah, absolutely. An hour after
they call me, the musical director for the Cosby Show,
Still Gardner, he calls me and says, I got got
your number off of this cassette. It was one of
my demo tapes of my singing and songwriting that a
friend of mine, Robbin Downs, had given him a year before.
So he says, would you be interested in working with

(01:01:03):
me on the theme song for this new soul And
I said, uh, okay, yeah, sure, what is it? So
he told me this is what the totally unconnected He said,
this is um, this is the concept of the show.
Lead Lisa Bonet is going off to college. We want
the song to say something along the lines of, you know,
experiencing life. The show was called Stepping Up to Step

(01:01:23):
out that was the original original title, and we're gonna
this was on a Wednesday, and we're gonna be in
the studio on Friday recording it. I said, okay, so
do you want to meet tomorrow, you know, to hear
what I come up with? Says no, if you're the
person that wrote these things, and if you're singing, you
can do what I need done. So I'll see you Friday. Okay.
So now I thought people were messing with me. No

(01:01:44):
I did. I thought my friends were messing with me
at this point. So I called Hughes Moss back and say,
did you just call me? They said, yes, is there
a problem? Can you so? No? No, no, no, I'll
be there. And sure enough, a couple of hours later,
a messenger came to my door with a cassette of
this is the music that we're thinking of of using
go right. So I was tripping, to say the least.

(01:02:08):
So I'm thinking, okay, this this is big. This is
really big. And one of the classes I had to
take as a musical theater degree major was this Business
of Music. It was that big, thick textbook that was
written by Bill Feyman and Andy Kraslass. There you go
there you go. So I'm like, okay, I need I
need somebody to help me with this. So again, just

(01:02:29):
out of college. So I opened the book and noticed
that they had an office here in New York. So
I got the Yellow Pages Yellow, I got the Yellow
Pages them up, yes, and they get delivered to the house,
and you go, why are you sending me? So I
look him up. I call them and I say, Hi,

(01:02:50):
you don't know me, but I just got this amazing
opportunity placed in my lap. And I'm sure I'm supposed
to be doing something that I don't know what I'm
supposed to do. Do you have para legals? Do you
have free legal service? Because I don't have any money.
And they said, well, please come into our office tomorrow.
We'll talk about it. It's okay. So I went to
my audition. They said, thank you for coming, goodbye. Okay.

(01:03:11):
So I leave and I go to the lawyer's office
and I explained to them what happened. They said, okay,
we will be happy to help you. I said, okay, no, stop,
you missed the part right said, I don't have any money.
I need. I can't afford you guys. They said, no,
We're very impressed that you want to do this and
do it the right way, so we are offering to
help you free of charge. All we want to see
is you be protected and when the opportunity comes, you'll

(01:03:33):
be willing to help somebody else. I sat in their
office and I cried, I'm sorry. So they negotiated my
whole contract. Uh. They negotiated that I get writer's royalties,
which was unheard of for me as basically an unknown
writer at the time, royalties and screen credit. So when

(01:03:54):
we were negotiating, when they were negotiating with Carcy Warner,
that's when we learned that Will the Gardener has a
deal with Mr Cosbie that Mr Kazbi gets pent of
whatever he does. And my lawyers said, well, that's fine.
Mr Kazmi can have fift of Mr Gardners and this happens,
and they signed off. A whole new thing I can imagine.

(01:04:18):
So I went in the studio the next day. I
record the song. The song had a rap in the
middle of it. I was flowing, I was singing, I
was doing all the background vocals, etcetera. That arrangement came later,
but the song, the lyrics, the melody, everything stayed and
the show was still called No Step Step to Step

(01:04:39):
Out was the original title, right, So then, uh, I
get a call on Monday. No, I get a call
on Friday while I'm in the studio that they want
me to have a call back for this role on Monday.
So I'm like, okay. I mean, they were so dismissive
in the audition, I wasn't expecting to ever hear from

(01:04:59):
them a in. So I go in Monday, and I
kid you not, I'm the only person in the room.
I did not recognize Jually was in the room. People
I've seen in magazines, people's size too, with light skin
and green eyes and long hair, and and me. And
I'm looking around the room. Okay, I know her, her her,
and okay. So it's like you know, and you count
yourself out mentally. But I was like, well, I'm here

(01:05:23):
and they called me to come back, so I'm just
gonna go and do my thing and wherever it falls,
that's where it false. I went in, I did my
thing again and they said, okay, thank you very much
for coming back. I said, no problem. So I left
and went to dance class and I danced out for
like another five hours. I came out of the dance studio.
Someone screens my name from across the street. We have
been looking for you all afternoon. Where's your agent? And

(01:05:45):
I'm thinking, no one ever called me back? I never.
I don't have an agent. You have to fly to
l A on Wednesday to meet with the studio, et cetera.
I like, so okay. So I called a friend who
called a friend who has an agent that said she
would negotiate my contract and all have to do is
pay her salary. I had to. I just pay her

(01:06:06):
a salary. She doesn't get commission, she doesn't get any
that because she didn't do my deal. So I paid her.
She negotiated my contract. It was a suck sucking contract,
but at least I had one. And I got on
a plane. Never flown first class before. It was pan
am first. But I had a menu and a tablecloth

(01:06:27):
and food and advertisers. It's like, this is the food
to l A. They put me up in like one
of those top suites at the Sheridan Universal that had
like almost a panoramic view of the value. I'm like,
what is this life that I am? What is happening
right now? So I went to the audition. The car

(01:06:48):
came and got me, took me to the studio and
there were these young ladies there waiting to be seen,
and so it was three of us and they're sitting well,
this is my seventh call back at My agent told
me that by this time they have to offer it
to me, and I know they're calling in some girl
from from New York and then no, I know, she
thinks she all of that, and I'm the only one
sitting there and say, wow, they were like trying to

(01:07:10):
get in my head. They were not nice. That's real,
this is real. I see it portrayed on television. Yes,
it was not nice. Try to get in my head.
And it's like, wow, wow, you know I'm sitting right here,
you know, Okay, fine, whatever whatever it's. I go into
to the room and the producers like, how is the flight?
Are you? Okay? Did did you see your contracts? And so? Fine? Fine.

(01:07:32):
So I'm walking out after reading the sides, and I'm
leaving and the girls are sitting there and the young
lady that walks me and says, okay, the cars downstairs
waiting for you, your contracts are there. Everything should be
in order to sign the paperwork in the car. I'll
be back to pick you up this afternoon. Okay, miss
miss miss lewis all right, you're good? You need anything else? No, no, no,
I'm fine. I'm fine. And the girls are sitting there

(01:07:54):
like so I looked over to them and said good
luck and left and left, and then that afternoon this
car comes and gets me. I now go to the studio.
So now the room is full of people who decide
whether or not you get hired. And if do you
remember the actress Renee Watson John okay, Renee was also

(01:08:17):
auditioning to play the dorm mother. So Renee saw me
sitting there like rolling my sides up in my hand,
and I'm nervous and like lines and my lines. And
then one of the exact producers comes out and says,
take your hair out of your face. I'll say okay.
So I pulled it back out of my face, and
Vernee says, are you okay? I said, I'm just you know, yeah, yeah,
I'm fine. I'm fine. She says, come at me. She
took me in the hallway, she had me breathe and relax,

(01:08:41):
and she said, if you want, I'll run lines with
you come on. Just let's let's go on. And she
sat there and ran lines with me until I cooled
out and chilled out, and then I went in the room,
I did my thing, and I came out and I
hugged her, and she and I have been friends ever since.
When both of us booked the pilot, she let me
stay at her house until I found an apartment. She's

(01:09:01):
one of the most beautiful I will never I'm telling you.
Lessons like that and opportunities teach you to be a
decent human being. So forne God bless you. I'd love
you forever. So they flew back to New York and
they used Moss cos me and said, Mr Cosby, uh
is the last interview that you have, and so we
want you to book this job. So come into our

(01:09:22):
office tomorrow morning and we're gonna put you in the
right outfit and then then we're gonna go. And that
was when the Cosby Show was shooting in Brooklyn, like
not even fifteen minutes from my house. So I stayed
up all night trying to put outfits together, and got
on the subway from last stopping Flap Bush to Midtown
on forty six, wherever their office was with this huge

(01:09:43):
bundle of clothes that I carried on the subway. Okay,
so I walk into their office and they go, perfect,
what you're wearing is perfect. I was like, for real,
all really really right now really? So then I had
to take my big bundle of clothes that we got
to a car and drove back then my crib to

(01:10:05):
go and meet with Mr Kazby. So we're sitting in
his dressing room. He's on the phone at his table
over there, and Um, myself and Tom Warner, Marcy Carcy
Um and the Hughes, Moss, Julie Hughes and Barry are
sitting there, and so he rattles over here to chair.
They had wheels. He waddles over and so I'm ready.
I got my side. I was nervous, wrong, So I'm

(01:10:27):
gonna reading Mr Corle Okay, all right, all right, I'm
gonna I'm gonna do this audition. And they said, well, Bill,
before we get started, what did you think of the song?
Now mine, this is all within the same week and
a half, Bill, what did you think of the song? Oh?
I love the song. The song is perfect in the
girl's voice is the Oh that's perfect. She's gonna be amazing.
The words are perfect. Everything is perfect. And I sat

(01:10:47):
there like and I raised I literally raised my hand.
I kid you not. And they said, yes, well, i
just want to say thank you for the song. I'm
glad you liked the songs. What are you talking about.
I said, I'm I'm the girl, I'm the who wrote it.
I'm the one you're listening to singing. And they look
at me like what and Bill just started he just
started laughing, and uh. They were like, he says, wait, stop,

(01:11:11):
that's you singing. I said, yeah, that's that's do. And
I did that last Friday and this was like Wednesday
for Thursday of the of the next the next day,
and he's like, all right, okay, And then they started
talking about what they're gonna do to my hair. You
see the way she's dressed right now, that's perfect. I
love that we're gonna do this to her hair and
this and that. So I'm sitting it like ten minutes
goes by, and I raised my hand again. They said yes.

(01:11:34):
What I said, does this mean I have a job?
Does this mean I have a job? And they said yes.
So they said, could just wait in the hallway for
a minute. I'm like, what is happening right now? What
is happening? So Mr Warner comes out and I'm in
the hallway like leaning up against the wall. My eyes
are big, and how you scream and nothing comes out

(01:11:55):
your math? And he says, do you need anything? I said, well,
can I use your phone? Please? I have to call mom.
I gotta go. So he took me into his office
and sat me down. That was when you had to
push nine to get an outside line. Yes, so he
let me call. Oh remember what was it? The Watts
lines when you get a little code to die along
distance for free whatever. So I said, well, before you

(01:12:18):
go this, I don't want to be crazy sound or anything,
but would you pray with me? And he said I'd
be happy to. So we prayed together in his office,
gave God thanks, and he left. He said, just whatever
you need to take as long as you want. So
I called my mom. My mom was an ore technician,
which means she assisted surgeon sur surgeons in the operating room.
So I called. They said, well, your mom is in search.
As I said, you have to get her out now.

(01:12:40):
You have to have to speak to her right now.
So my Mom comes to the phone, thinking I'm like
bleeding or dying somewhere, and just what is it? What
is I said, my god, the job. She says, what
she's like, girl, I'm gonna kill you. What I was like?
I said, I got the job. I went to She says,
with with with Mr Crosby she could never say Cosby

(01:13:02):
with Mr Crosby. I said, yes, she's all Jesus, yes,
Jesus or a lot of mer cank your all DD?
She called me D did he your father? And neither
one of us were any good. After that, we were
just crying on the phone and it was it was,

(01:13:23):
It was great. And two days later I was back
on the plane in l A shooting the pilot. Wait,
you had to move, No, we shot to shoot the pilot.
So I was just gonna get picked or whatever. And
at that point, after shooting the pilot and seeing the
female influence and them deciding that since it wasn't my show,

(01:13:45):
it was too much to have me sing the theme song.
You know you can't write it, sing it and this
is somebody else's show. Okay, fine, they had Al Green
come in and sing it, and that was when they
we flipped the name to a different world. So I
rewrote just that line instead of stepping up the step out.
It was different world green. What was that like? Because

(01:14:05):
it was me? No, it was amazing. I couldn't believe it.
I absolutely could not believe that. I was like, no, no,
it goes like this, and he was open and receptive.
Now he was open and receptive. And that was where
I met Rochelle Farrell and then fidmont So singing backgrounds

(01:14:27):
on that version. It was me, Rochelle and Lynn music. Well, yes,
it had more that like honky tonk feel to the
so it's closer to what Phoebe ended up releasing. So
once it became clear this was really female driven, they
took out Al's vocal and Phoebe came in and recorded,
I wasn't in that. Oh, I wasn't in that because

(01:14:49):
I was I was filming by then. Yeah, I was
doing that, because we did that in Brooklyn too. No no,
no, no no, no, that was Elsa Gundo. You know. They
didn't believe I knew how to jump double it. Just
if you find somebody who can really turn, I can,
I can throw throw down. So I said, not only
will I throw out, I'm gonna do it in pumps.

(01:15:11):
Y'all ain't ready, You ain't ready, y'all ain't ready, y'all
ain't ready. Is there a version? Is there a version
of the al Green version around? I have it. I
have to stepping up to step out. Yes, I have
stepping up to step out. I have the Algreen version.
And I wasn't there when a Rea did it. So
their their concept was like The Cosby Show kind of

(01:15:33):
revamp their music, and they were going to revamp it
every season. But once is saying that they were not good. Yeah,
that's such a frozen moment where I was waiting for
the honky Tonk thing and yes, wait what the hell
is this? Yes? And oh man, this is without a
VCR back then. So yes, I had to wait seven
days to record it next week and then the final

(01:15:55):
season boys too, men re read it right? Yeah, shooting
that show of course, with with the level where the
Cosby Show was, I mean, did you feel that you
were doing something important or historical that was going to

(01:16:18):
touch a bunch of kids lives that you know? When
when I can only speak from myself, when we started
the show, like any actor, young actor, you're happy to
have a job, and you know the quality of the
show that you're coming off of, because the Cosby Show
was just such a high quality show and so many

(01:16:40):
people were regardless of what nationality you were or age
group you were, you had and you had a special
place in your heart for that show. So we knew
some of that was going to be coming over as
far as legacy building and changing lives and influencing generations. No,
I didn't know. I knew that our first season was

(01:17:02):
typical sitcom and that was because of the person that
was the show, who was the who directed it, and
well we had different directors first see season, but our
ex executive producer was and and Beats and who had
come off of Square Pegs and um, etcetera. So we
were how people. There was no difference because we basically

(01:17:23):
did square Pig scripts. But did you feel like, I
don't know, this will fly away? We were. We thought
it was ridiculous. We thought the scripts were ridiculous, and literally,
I'm very serious, we did revamped Square Pegs scripts. Like
when we first started working the show was myself, Jasmine, myself,
Lisa and Marissa to Tomy. When the new management came in,

(01:17:47):
that was when the Whitley Gilbert character was added, the
Dwyane Wayne character, Etcet. Well, they we reshot the pilot, right,
They weren't in the pilot, but we reshot stuff so
that they would be included from beginning because he's the
first person you see right on the Well, the pilot
was like, it wasn't eight six, No, we shot at
the pilot in eighty five, but it was eventually it

(01:18:11):
was eventually aired as a finale of the first season, right,
because no, it was eventually aired as the first episode.
It was even ementually aired as the first episode pilot
where Dwayne talks to the camera fourth wall like yeah,
but there was another episode that that came before that,
because like Vernet is in it as a dorm, correct
and white and they so yeah, um, so that's what

(01:18:37):
we were doing, and miss miss Beats brought in those
other characters, so we re shot stuff to include them
once for when the show actually began airing. Was there
panic in the air once you realized that Lisa wasn't
going to come back for season two? How comfortable do
you have to be before you're like, this job is real? Uh,

(01:19:01):
let me be you know, I never got that type
of my money. No, I'm I'm because I had already
been working for so long. Show start, shows end, nothing
is forever, so you know different people. You buy cards,
you buy houses like I ain't buying nothing because they
could tell us tomorrow. And the way they fire folks
around here. If if Lisa can go, guess what, they

(01:19:24):
can let you go to you know what I mean?
You we would come to work some days and not
know who was going to be at work. It was
like that, but by this point you could probably afford
your on Marvel's right, Yes, but but but I was
so far past Marvels. But how it's so past Marvels

(01:19:45):
by then? Yes? Yes, but it's that was hilarious. You
didn't you didn't have what is there a moment where
it's sort of like okay, uh I made it, or
you're still like, yes, I'm telling you. And I wouldn't

(01:20:06):
say not comfort. You knew you had a job, and
you were if you were wise, you would be aware
that this could change at any moment. So you go
to work and you do your gig. And I watched
the show go from featuring three people to featuring fourteen
people in just four years. You know, All these other

(01:20:28):
characters got added, you know, from you know to from
Creeze character to Sean Charnelle's character, you know, everybody. All
these people kept getting at it, and they were Every
storyline was pretty much focused on Dwyane, Wayne and Whitley.
So you add more people, that means there's less and
less for everyone else to do. So that was when

(01:20:49):
I started digging deeper into Okay, what else am I
going to do? And that was how I ended up
working with Quincy Jones and the Handle's Messiah Sofa Celebration.
That was how I won the Grammy. In writing and
producing for other people and doing my own stuff. Um,
I got into animation. You know, I know Korea is
known a lot for animation, but I've been doing a yeah,

(01:21:12):
so right now, I think I do like six seven
different series. Now, how hard is it to navigate in
that world because voiceover, Um, it really depends you. The
directors and studios like to work with who they know
can deliver. So once you're in the circle, you work
a bit more and people just request you directly. Um,

(01:21:34):
it's a little harder to break into, but it's not impossible,
especially because there were so many projects available now. When
I first started, my first animated series was produced by
Suzanne to Pass Susander Pass. It was Kidn't Play, Kidn't
Played card cartoon. I played the younger sister. I was

(01:21:57):
the younger sisister on the show. And I remember that,
there you go. I was the younger sister on that show.
And then Suzanne got the opportunity to produce a Christmas
special with with boys two men doing guest spot voices.
Uh called cool like that. So I did voices for
that and I played a seven year old boy and

(01:22:18):
that that show. And again this was all freelance. Didn't
have an agent, so I would get called to do
things here and there. Because I was the new voice
in in town. I was on the TV show. People
knew who I was. I was able to create different
characters with my voice of different ages and male or
female and uh so I finally decided to get an agent.

(01:22:38):
And that was when I got an agent, and they
allowed me to freelance as well. I assume the term
that can deliver means that you can knock it out. Well,
you knock it out and you understand what they're asking
you to do. And because you're not on camera. You
have to be able to sell and convince something just
with your with your voice. So you have to turn

(01:22:58):
into a seven year old turn into seven year old
boy and yeah, and it has to be believable when
when you listen back to it. So since then, um,
you know, so what is your arrange like as far
as your I know Creed has an arrange of she
could sound like a freaking zoid or you know whatever.
Like I do all of that. I do video games

(01:23:19):
Mortal Kombat, I've done Yeah, Storm and the x X Men.
I do lots of different video games. I do Um
Simpson Simpson's calls me and to do all kinds of
extraneous voices like the last three years I record to
Simpsons last week. I have another one next week. I
did the series Apple and Onion where I played Patty
the Meat, the Meat Patty Boss. Uh Start. CBS is

(01:23:42):
coming out with with a new animated series, Star Trek
Lower Decks Um the captain on Star Trek Lower Dam.
I'm really not going to ask you about cramps now. No. No,
I also do. We're in the world as Carbon san
Diego for Netflix. I'm the voice of the Cheap and
when we just released our interactive series games. I do

(01:24:05):
the voice of the chief in that. UM, don't forget
Futurama now Futurama Tramla Barbara. In Futurama, I'm Granny Mixed
Stuffins and Doc Mixed Stuffins and who is the voice
of actual Uh. To be honest with you, I don't know.
I honestly don't know the young lady Lady's name because
usually when I get called in the studio was just me,

(01:24:26):
and you meet people, you don't meet people. So I
I apologize. I was stuck in the elevator with her
once and when I told I had never heard of
Doc mic Stuffins in my life. So when I got
out the elevator go to the airport, one of my managers,
she's like, I mean, even though she's of age, she's
eternally thirteen years old. So I cavilly said that, Yeah,

(01:24:48):
I was in the elevator with whoever plays Dot Mix Stuffins,
and she, like zarre like lost her mind. Yeah they
do do. Yeah, it's it's it's a trip. Shows like
Spirit shows like Sophia of the First UM. Another one
I did way back in the day was Sea Bear
in Jamal with tone tone loke. Yeah, I think I
did like three or four voices in that show. I

(01:25:10):
played the grandmother who kind of almost didn't have any
teeth in her in her mouth, and it was just
so much fun and the and the kids teacher Miss Fine.
Another one where the little bear wanted to get a job.
I was an old, old Jewish man in the factory
where he worked. So no, we had a lot maybe

(01:25:32):
I know. Watch his name. His name was Fingo. You're basic.
Too much time? Time is money work? Fuck Foster to
hear it, Doris, have never closed on you or I
wouldn't say, I gotta ask. Has one role ever gotten

(01:25:55):
away that like either to a to another commitment or
something that you had a chance to go forward that
you weren't able to. Yeah, I wanted to do Tina
Turner and What's love got to do with it? And
they got some allknown chick named Angela Bassett to do it.
She was she was phenomenal name angel Bassett. She'll never

(01:26:16):
go anywhere, She'll never I mean, she's she's just the
coolest people. One of my dear friends in a you
know I got well. Speaking of which, let me let
me lead it to this where you are now at
the Tina Turner Um play. The sort of the the

(01:26:37):
quasi violatal relationship between her mother and her in Matt
play was that that was intense. Is she executive producer
of the plate like? Is she a part of the production?
Miss Turner? Yes, yes, from the from the beginning. She
handpicked all of the songs that are in the show,

(01:26:58):
all of the songs or songs that she record at
one time or none other. Um. The way that they're
placed in the show is not necessarily chronological when they
were released, but there their placed strategically to help tell
the story. Only asked because this was way more intense
than what's love got to do with it? At least

(01:27:19):
the relationship between the two and I wanted to know, Well,
it goes into a bit more detail of the life.
You know. Some people, you know, think that if you've
seen that movie, then then you've seen the most right,
But that's that's not the case at all. And in
playing Zelma her mother, my mother's name is Zelma Bullock.
Her name was originally Anime Bullock before got changed to Tina.

(01:27:41):
Tina Turner. It was important to me to come and
do this particular role just because it was so real
for me in my my life, because that was the
life that I lived, I watched. I was raised in
the house with domestic violence. Um my mom had to
get out in order to save herself and put herself
in a better position to save us. Um. My dad

(01:28:01):
was a policeman. He was head of the Department of
Homicide in Brooklyn when I was small, and so when
my mom would go to report the violence, the cops
would basically tell her that if you would just do
what he told you, he wouldn't have to hit you.
Kind of a thing that you don't get involved in. Yeah, exactly. So,
so my mom left us and we ended up being
taken by my grandmother that I mentioned for a cup

(01:28:21):
couple of years until my mom was able to come
back and get us. So that was how he went
from bed styed to park Slope, back to bed sty
when my mom came back and got us. Um. Fortunately,
my dad learned to make better choices in his in
his life and UH grateful for that, especially you know,
before he passed passed. That's the way, so we were
able to you know, heal certain things. But again, my

(01:28:43):
relationship with my my mom, her mom, like Zelma tells
Tina at one point, you need to go back to
him because who do you think he helped make you?
And what my mom was told was who do you
think is going to take you? With four kids? What
person is going to want you? Even though understanding what
that violence, say situate wtion was. So it was a

(01:29:04):
very different time. People didn't get divorced. You knew that
there were other kids somewhere across town, or other girlfriends
or whatever, and but you dealt with it. So people
like Zelma, like my mother, like my grandmother, who was
strong enough to love themselves enough to make a different choice,
especially during that time, I just have nothing but love

(01:29:25):
for it's not a popular choice, and looking at it
by today's standards, you can judge in point thing as well.
I would never leave my kids. And it was a
very different time. And until you're in that position, I
know some people who really should believe, you know, domestic
violence shouldn't be tolerated, whether it's male to female or
female to male, because there's some violent women out there

(01:29:47):
with you know, men being really physically and emotionally damaged
in these relationships. So you know, you can't help hope
your kids unless you save yourself, and that was what
happened in our family. So in my portrayal of Zelma,
it was important to me that you see her as
a human being who had to make different choices. You
may or may not agree with them. Their relationship was

(01:30:10):
always very complicated and damaged. Um, but hopefully you can
see a human being there and both of them. Unfortunately,
you sometimes repeat generational realities because in order to become
the tin attorney that we knew, she ended up having
to leave her kids to basically be raised by you know,

(01:30:31):
her sister and her mother, and you know, in order
for her to be who she is. But it ultimately
is a story of not just surviving, but thriving, you
know what I mean. In spite of so, I'm really
honored to be thank you so much. I brought you
a gift. Actually, thank you, you brought me. I'm unrolling

(01:30:55):
a scroll. This was something that I made for the
entire company for opening gift. So it is a playbill
version of you made this for your cast. I made
this for the professional man, and this is the entire company,
each one of us. And uh so, yeah, so that's
that's the creative team. That's the Bullock family. Tina, that's

(01:31:18):
our director. That's me, that's young the little girl that
plays Anime Bullock. That's the young woman that was playing uh,
the older version of our daughter alive. She's she's not
there anymore. This is the woman Mary Luke lu Creek
Taylor who plays Gg the grandmother. That's David Jennings who
plays Richard Bullock. Um. And then those are the guys

(01:31:40):
in the ensemble, and that's everybody. Well, thank you for this.
I will cherish this, he says. Did you notice that
I will cherish this? This is er, This is really
on good paper, papers like weather. Yeah, that's beautiful. So
I would like to think that at least hearing the

(01:32:04):
narrative and sort of the the linear motion that your
life is taken, you're stepping out in confidence and not
saying that everything was done without you being nervous or
I can't do this. But I kind of feel like
the common denominator is like everything that you've have tempted

(01:32:24):
to attempted to do, you did without a second thought
or a voice in your head that says you can't
do this, and you know, so what but from you
doing that at an early age till even now still
working where no one has this narrative that I've heard,

(01:32:45):
and I've been doing this show for three years now practically,
like what is that? Because I feel like that's what's it.
I feel like you have a confidence or stepping down
on faith in terms of just doors open for you,
you know, yes and and no, yes, doors open. When

(01:33:06):
I saw you, uh at Mr Bebelafante's birthday celebration and
you told me that you wanted me to be on
your show, that just really blessed my spirit. Because you
don't know who sees you, you don't know who cares.
You know who you pursue in life and they either
respond or you don't. Like me trying to chase down

(01:33:26):
an agent for months and nobody being willing to call back.
There are still people that I try to approach now
that you would hope would be supportive or encouraging, who
are not necessarily because they have other people to answer
to the politics, the you know whatever, Like yeah, and
I'm gonna say it. I want to come and do
Jimmy Fallon, I want to do the show, I want

(01:33:47):
to do the view, I want to do all these
things Um, and for whatever reason it will it won't happen,
you know. But um, those are shows that I did
back in the day when I was on Hang with
Mr Cooper or some other TV show. But now that
I'm here in New York, you know, my own home hometown.
You know, I'm on Broadway big stage, doing good work
with great peat people. You want to do things, and

(01:34:11):
as you know, in our in our business, the next
gig is almost predicated on the previous gig, like what
did what did you do? How did you maximize it,
did anybody care? Etcetera, etcetera, And then that's how the
next gig happens. And things like staying relevant, staying present,
staying marketable are what makes those kinds of things happen.

(01:34:31):
So you do the best to do your best to
do that. So I just want to tell you how
much I appreciate being here. And um, you know, I
had no idea that my journey meant even what it
means to you, but for us to be able to
sit here and and talk about it and exchange some
of the things that we even have in common, skellies,
I mean, who knew. Whew, I'm sting tournament, Yes, you

(01:34:55):
know what I'm saying. All those kinds of things matter,
and it sometimes gets frustrating when the journey feels stifled.
But like you said, I'm walking on faith because I
was told at seven that where I was pursuing was
going to take me on a downward spiral, that was
gonna be my spiritual demise, my physical demise, all of that.

(01:35:17):
And God has proven me that that is just not true,
that that's just not his journey for me. So any
step I want to take, if I feel empowered and
if I feel like, Okay, He's given me everything I
need to succeed here, that I'm gonna give it a
shot and let it be someone else's choice to say no,
she's too tall, because I'm as tall as I'm as
I am, I'm as brown as I am, I'm as

(01:35:37):
whatever as I am. But if I believe I have
something to offer, then that's what I'm going to do.
I wish like he was here, like like she we
should tell like it was very upset that she couldn't
be here today. She really really wanted to. I was
looking forward to meeting her. She's been very kind. Well,
we thank you very much for doing us you've got

(01:35:58):
to come back and tell us some Latin quarter stories.
There's always stories. There's plenty, plenty stories to tell. So
on behalf of Boss, Bill and Sugar, Steve, Laya, Fon
Tikolo and I'm Paid Bill. Thank you Don Lewis for
being here today and we will see you in the
next go round. Of course, Love Supreme Quest Love Supreme

(01:36:28):
was the production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts
for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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