Questlove Supreme: El DeBarge

Are you ready for another legendary Questlove Supreme episode!?!? Yes, another one! In the words of our leader, this week's guest possesses "one of the most flawless tenor voices in modern music. He has NO singing peers and if he does they share his last name" We guarantee you don't disagree. Ladies and gentlemen ........El DeBarge! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen,
you know the show.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
You know the host, you know the co host, Fantakeolo Sugar,
Steve Broke, ast Bill say hello, Hey, alright, all right,
let's just get this out the way, because this.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Is about this show was invented like this, like this
Nephork is once in a blue boon.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
What can I say about our guest today, Ladies and gentlemen,
I will simply state we do not deserve this guest
at all. He possesses what I personally believe to be
one of the most flawless tenor voices in modern music,
as a songwriter, as an arranger, as a producer, as
a performer, as an entertainer. Our guest, I don't believe

(00:57):
that he has any singing peer whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
And if he does, they have his last name. That's
all I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Even as he approaches the bolden names of sixty this June,
he has.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Not lost a step.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
He's in fine form since when we first heard him
over forty years ago front of his siblings. Please give
us the honor of welcoming and giving flowers, Yes flowers, yes,
only held your departs the quest love Supreme.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yes, I can't believe I Saiven, Yes, made it flowers? Hello, Elle,
how are you?

Speaker 4 (01:39):
I'm great after that? That's that's wonderful. I didn't know.
I didn't know I was approaching sixty. Emma, you don't look.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
At you don't look at at all, man, for real?

Speaker 4 (01:50):
You Yeah, you're not think about it, really, I ever think,
but it doesn't feel like it.

Speaker 5 (01:55):
Oh good.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
I have to get out the habit of acknowledge numbers,
like I feel like that is what slows slows us down.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
In terms of numbers.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
I mean, we've been doing f centuries. We pag people,
we design people, we judge people by numbers. Everything.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, but no, it's it's this is wonderful to speak
with you.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
You know, I don't know if you know the history
of this particular show, but we're really about celebrating your
achievements and you know, going through the journey of your
life as a creative and and and.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
All those things. So I will start at the beginning. No,
I'm not asking where he was born because I know
you were born in Detroit.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Correct Detroit?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, okay, can you because I know that your family
moved to Grand Rapids. What is the difference between Grand
Rapids and Detroit.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
Oh, well, today, not much because Grand Rapids has gotten very,
very very seriously, that's just just lot more violence than
it was when I was coming up. But in the seventies,
my mother wanted us sustaining Grand Rapids Michigan because Detroit.
You know, if you know about Detroit, it was kind
of rough on us, being half breas, half black and

(03:12):
half white. A lot of criticism from actually a lot
of gotten a lot of fights from both sides, from
whites and the blacks. So was a lot easier on us.
And we went there to go to school. But every
year during the summer we were back in Detroit anyway,
because that's what most of our relatives was.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
What year did you move to Grand Rapids.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Let me see, I was like eight years old, to see,
I was born sixty one, let's do the mass around sixty.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, So, do you have any memories of like at
least Detroit, like post Riot, because you know, not many
people understand or know that, I mean a big part
of Motown migrating to the West and kind of what
Detroit once represented. A lot of that sort of vanished

(04:08):
after the Detroit riots that people aren't aware of, even
though like a movie was made about it a couple
of years ago. But do you have any memories of
the time during that period in your life?

Speaker 4 (04:18):
Yeah, I was young myself. I think I was roughly
around eight or nine years old when riots happened. I
remember stepping outside. We used to go outside every chance
we got as kids. I stepped outside one day and
people were fighting the streets and cars were driving up
on the sidewalk trying to run people over. I didn't
know what was going on. My brother Bobby grabbed me

(04:40):
and pulled me back in the house. He said, it's
a riot. Mart Luther King got shot. I remember very well,
very well I was. I don't remember being that scared
of my life because it was crazy. I was looking
for you. Imagine being eight years old seeing something like that.
I got a lot of fond memories too, about about
Detroit and my Grand Rappers Club. It's where I got

(05:03):
my musical education, most of my influences. I have gospel
influences too. I don't talk about them a lot, but Andre.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Right now hear we can hear it in the intro
to Love Me in a special way we heard.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
That's true. That's true. Yeah, I mean I was strongly
influenced by Andrew Crouch and Walter Hawkins.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Do you remember your first musical memory.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
My first musical memory? Actually you want to hear this?

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
We love long drawn out stories on the show, like Okay,
there's no such like fireside chat stuff.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
That's what we live for.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Okay. Well, my mother every time we moved to a house,
my mother had what you call a prayer closet, and
she would put one closet in the house and it
was hers. Nobody could go in there, and she would
re decorated. She had an alter in there, and she
would kneel down and pray. My mother prayed from twelve
midnight to three in the morning every night, every night,

(06:03):
so as long as I can't remember. So, but one
particular night she got my brother Bobby out of bed
in the morning. And I remember I was seven years old.
I remember Bobby, his jaws was tight, he was mad.
So and she said, well, the Lord told me that
el is going to be a minister of music, so

(06:25):
I want you to teach him a song. This is
a true story. So here we are both sitting at
the piano, and we had just got a We were
real poor. We just got an upright piano donated to
us from some neighbors. And because my brother Bobby was
the only one to play piano at the time. So
here we were sitting at the piano. He said, Mary

(06:49):
had a little lamb. Then he looked at me and said,
now play it. So my mother said, just it. She
has some anointing oil and she anointed my fingers and
my hands with it. She said, no, play it, and man,
I started playing. I started playing in harmony. Was never taught.

(07:12):
It's just I just saw it. I saw the notes
in my in my head and I started playing it
and harmy he played with one finger. I started playing
it in the harmony. I've been playing piano every since.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
So you never had formal lessons. It was just.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
I tried to take lessons, but by the time I
did it, I had my ear had developed so well.
Playing by ear. They just sent me home and said, well,
he's cheating, he's pretending like he's reading music.

Speaker 5 (07:41):
Did Bobby give you another lesson?

Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, Bobby gave me many lessons. Bobby. Bobby was like
a mentor for me musically, he sharpened, Well, he's shaving
my musical taste. He got me into Marvin Gaye, sly Stone,
I was George Clinton. It was like that, why right? Yeah?
And then he would make me play songs and learn them.

(08:04):
And I remember one time I played the song by
Hearl from the Fire and I played it exactly perfect,
just like it was, and he set me upside my head.
I was like, what do you do that for? He said,
I didn't tell you to copy it. I said, play
it like you don't copy it. He was like, he
was like really very meticulous in particular about what he wanted.

(08:27):
I wish I'm glad about because that's helped to shape
in me.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
You know, were you the first besides your brother Bobby?
Were you the first of the family members to really
catch onto music?

Speaker 4 (08:37):
No? No, no, no, My sister Bunny, Brandy, I'm number
seven down the line, Randy, Marty, Tommy, Bunny, deezra Ellie, Shan, Teal, Bobby.
Those are older than me. Okay, I see I got
it eventually.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Damn I'm so overwhelmed. I literally forgot you.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Wait a minute, I had a good question too, Damn
you the first album that you purchased.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
Yeah, first all my purchase was Earth Wind and Fire.
It was.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
All in All album really.

Speaker 4 (09:22):
Yeah. The one was a you know, bye bye bye.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Bye bye bye run Running Running, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
That one. Yeah, that's first all my actually pert, but
my brother Bobby kept him and Bunny. They're always I
was listening to their albums. It was always buying them.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
But the first one that you purchased was definitely All
in All that was yours. What is it about you
always spoken about Maurice White being a musical hero of yours? Uh,
and all of the interviews I've read, even before you
worked with him in ninety two, What was it? What
was it about his music that spoke to you feeling?

Speaker 4 (09:57):
It was just h It was the first time that
I had heard any any band of musicians, uh, stretch
out like that. They the horns and the and the strings.
I mean, it was just pretty quest It was just
so pretty good. You know, all the stuff they did

(10:20):
in between Maya was picking up all of that, and
then he had and then he just wouldn't stop. Each album.
He just kept building and building and making everything larger,
and it seemed like they were never gonna have a flop.
They was just hit after hit after hit after hit,
all this stuff, which it just moved me like that,
you know really, and he was he was very He

(10:40):
was a very smart producer. Sure, you know that, very
very smart.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Can you tell me of I mean, besides your your
family group, did you in your high school experiences or
in your neighborhood experiences, did you have other groups that
you were part of or bands or were you guys
just like contained as a family doing stuff together.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Well, No, I've always had other other groups that I
was in, other bands that I was in. See my brothers. Basically,
to be honest with you, Okay, there's Randy, Marty, James, Chico,
all of them. Music was like so natural for us.
It was like you had to really make them sit
down and practice because it came so easy for him.

(11:24):
Like people who who need to develop something, you'll see
them spending more time trying to develop it. But it
was like with them, you give them a note, they
got a family, it's easy, so now they're on. They
get bored with it really easy, so they would be
outside chasing the girls. Serious and I was always I

(11:45):
was always very serious minded, even from a child. They
used to call me professor because they said, you're too serious, man,
be a child, Be a kid. But I've always been
like that, so I was always somewhere practicing and studying, rehearsing.
I had to like make them do it, you know.
And but once you get them in and you start
teaching them nots, you get them into it, they're there.

(12:07):
I mean, And honestly, I don't know anybody to harmonize
this better than they do. I mean, you got to
give it to them.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you.
I know, yes that. I mean when I say I
give it to you, I give it to you. The
de Barge clan.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
I was curious, however, if other like do you are
you the type of creator or musician that like, it's
hard for me to listen to some people without offering
my notes inside my head or mine. I mean, it's
one thing to listen to a song as a fan,
but then it's another thing to listen to it and
you start critiquing. So like your thoughts on at least

(12:46):
at the time, like other groups that were closer to
your age, like were you aware of like what the
Five Stare Steps were doing or the Silvers early incarnation
of the Silvers. I mean, the Jackson's are almost kind
of because they were so you bick. What's It's almost like,
I don't know, they're more of an institution than I
considered them just a singing group. But what were your

(13:09):
thoughts on like other people around, like younger acts at
the time.

Speaker 4 (13:14):
I've always felt like different. I remember the Silvers we
would come up. I remember, of course, the Jackson's. I've
always felt like my style was different. I was going
somewhere else. But but you know, I know how to
pull from this person and that person different groups what
I need. I was always thinking somewhere else. I mean, honestly,

(13:39):
I just was. It was like I would listen to
my peers, people that were my age who were and
then the Tamberguinners. But I found myself more so steering
towards older groups. It seemed like, I don't know, it
was just I learned more, I mean, which was the

(13:59):
reason why I had other groups that I was in
even when I was coming up. I wasn't always just
singing with my family. I was always there was a
group I was in called Peacemakers, another group being called
God's Children of harmony. Uh who called h TNT flashers?
Don't ask me now.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
It's like, why why is that the name?

Speaker 4 (14:22):
Right? That something that one of the band members came
up with. I don't know. I just went with it.
But see, I remember I was very young. I started
playing at seven years old, so I was by the
time I was twelve years old. I was playing in
the bars and clubs with my brother Bobby in his groups,
but I was in the background. Nobody knew I was there.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
How old were you when you gave your first public performance?

Speaker 4 (14:46):
Uh? Twelve?

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (14:49):
Okay, so it was it was mostly just me playing
the piano and singing backgrounds behind Bobby and and his groups.
But for the most.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Part, as a singer, would you say that as a singer,
would you say that your brother Bobby is like your
your north star, your at least, and because your vocal
textures are the same.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
But you know what quests he One thing that Bobby
instilled in me, he was to be myself, be me,
never get lost, and and whatever influences you, make sure
it becomes a part of who you already are and
I consume you. So because of that, I mean, I
could say Marvin gay and really be honest about it.

(15:33):
And and Bobby and Maurice's White hundred Crouch Hawkins Slidestone,
the Beg's allow. I made all of these my mentor
because I got into every single one of them, just
one just as much as the other.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Well, eventually, I know, you guys have to migrate out west.
How did the whole process start in getting at least
with your your brother, getting Jermaine Jackson's attention, that stuff like,
how did I guess the move to Motown? How did
how did where was the first step that went out there?

Speaker 4 (16:07):
No, I'm sad because you said migrate so many of us.
It's like I just see a whole tribe of us.

Speaker 6 (16:16):
I still don't have the official count. I was counting
on my hands when he was doing it. Now, what
is the official number of the Bard's children?

Speaker 4 (16:25):
Fifteen?

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Wow?

Speaker 5 (16:29):
Wait a minute, your mama, your mama, your.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
Ma, mama eleven or ten with my mama, We'll see.
My daddy was roll right, but he yeah, he was.
He was something else. He was having children while he
was married to my mother. And check this out, he
was bringing them home.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
I'm sorry, what now? What was he? What did you
mean to bring.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Oh, by the way, meet your new brother. Yeah, he
pulled defenses second definitely.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yeah, Wow, I.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
Knew that experience.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
I had to meet one of my brothers that way,
like when I was nine. Yes, I had two older brothers. Yeah,
just one day. Casually meet your brother, different.

Speaker 5 (17:17):
Time, different times.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
That's a whole school, right. You get shot for doing
that nowadays?

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yes, exactly exactly. Now it's like make room for.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Your brother, you make funeral plans right for you, for
your father, your mother.

Speaker 6 (17:35):
We put them into the singing side of the de
Barges too, like the other your father's kids or they
just there.

Speaker 4 (17:42):
On the singing side that mostly came from my mother.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Is there?

Speaker 2 (17:47):
I was just going to say, is there a DeBarge
that does not know how to sing? And won't get
angry if you agree with that question?

Speaker 4 (17:57):
They know it, they know it's.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
I think if al de Barges in your family, you
know if you can sing or not. I think you
have a pretty good benchmark of what's saying and what ain't.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
I mean, I was just curious whether or not like
that sort of that kind of epigenetics works with talent
as well, Like the entire family is blessed with the voice,
but only maybe six or seven are blessed with it,
and you know the rest are not that lucky.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
I always want to know.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
It works like that to genetics work the same way.
Although I would have to say this, I don't know
if you find this interesting or not, but my father,
the timber in his voice, mixed with my mom is
what helped, is what helped to shape in my tone. Really,
because if you ever heard my father talk and sing

(18:49):
he used to sing, you would know what I'm talking about.
You could hear a mixture of his tone and my
mother's to bless two equals what I have.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Wow, I was gonna ask you, lle how do you
preserve your voice?

Speaker 5 (19:04):
Man?

Speaker 3 (19:04):
I saw your the Instagram live concert that you did
where you were playing.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
You sounded amazing. Man. That was so it was.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
It was fantastic and me and my wife we watched it.
We put it on the big speakers like everything.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
It was great.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
And I just want to know how you preserve your voice, man,
because you still singing all those songs, still in the
same key, still with the same clarity.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
How do you preserve yourself?

Speaker 4 (19:25):
I will I will have to say water, Yeah, I drink,
but I love water. So but ultimately, you know, having
gone through what I've been through in life, we all
know it was it was the grace of God. You know,
God's got his hands on you, man, and he's got

(19:45):
his hands on you, and he preserved me. I mean water,
what I've been through water with long couldn't have it
was It's God, man, you know. And uh, amen, you
know what I'm saying. Amen, you could want to pass
the off from plate now.

Speaker 5 (20:03):
We usually passed to him.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
All right, So back to my question, how did the
transition to California happened?

Speaker 4 (20:10):
Yeah, okay, Well Bobby, he was missing and we didn't
know where he was. Honestly, he just walked off one day.
I think he was like eighteen years old. Yeah, and
a month went by, no Bobby. Two months went by,
no Bobby. Come to find out, this whole time he

(20:32):
was in California and he was would switch him in a.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Please don't say you saw him on television like, oh
there he is, no, not that, but oh okay.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
We found this out like a year later. He was
going for a year before we even knew where he was.
And you know, my mother was hurt, so then, but
we did hear it on the radio. Back then, there
was no Internet, none of that stuff, so you know,
it was kind of hard to figure out where he was.
But he just left. I just took off and then
next thing you know, Tommy was gone. But he had

(21:09):
sent for Tommy, right all this was like his big secret.
He wanted to surprise us, but it took him my year.
But anyway, he got with Motown and I got to
give Greg Williams credit because he put all that together.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
He was deep a relationship with Greg Williams. Because even
now as we speak, you know, members of Switch have
reunited to you know, still do trying to figure out
how are they doing those songs without Bobby there?

Speaker 4 (21:43):
But what you mean?

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, I was like, how does that work? No? I mean,
but nothing nothing against nothing, nothing against Philip.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
That was Paddy. That was that Caddy.

Speaker 5 (21:55):
I mean, but it wasn't a lot.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
It wasn't a lot.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
It's hard.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
I was going to ask, has there ever has there
ever ever been a conversation about kind of.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
A quasi amalgamation of of de Barge and Switch?

Speaker 5 (22:17):
I mean, I mean, whatever you think.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
El break that down for me.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Have you in your life ever saying uh, I call
your name, it will never be or I call your name,
or calling all girls, or I want to get closer
and have you Do you have a relationship with Greg
Williams where you two have talked about collaborating. I just
always wanted to know was there a direct relationship with

(22:45):
the Switch camp and the current DeBarge camp.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
I'm scared of this question, this question. No, no, I'm
just take me serious. I'll try to be a comedian.
At times it doesn't and I'll try it anyway, but
anyway or to break.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
It's a real question. It's a real question. I didn't
know that. I didn't know there was one under that
bridge to go to the evening.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
It's cool, they look funny, but listen, uh Switch it's not.
I don't feel some type of way about it or nothing,
but I mean, I love I love Gregham just like
a brother to me. They're out singing. Okay, put it
this way. Sometimes when I'm out doing concerts, m hum.

(23:35):
Unbeknownst to me, the promoters do this. So I look
up and then they say, I know, Switches opening up
for me.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Oh they trying to force it, yeah, oh.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Force the movement. So I did. I did hit up
on something.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
Okay, yeahs. Matter of fact, it's happened quite a few times.
And uh, I don't know whe you think they're trying
to say, tell me something. I mean, do you.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Feel do you feel like it would be sacrilegious for
you to sing your brother songs?

Speaker 5 (24:03):
No?

Speaker 4 (24:03):
I do sing my brother's song. See that's that's the
cool thing about it. I do it in my show,
and it will switch opening up for me.

Speaker 7 (24:09):
Oh ship, that's a double oh conflict of.

Speaker 4 (24:14):
When I do it. You know I'm gonna bring it right?
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (24:19):
I mean, so we got talked to grade because he no, no,
there's no.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
I'm gonna be cool.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
You can leave it at that.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
Well what do you think? Have you heard him sing
your show?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Well, no, it's it's I just recently and shout out
to a DJ Soul System for bringing back the the
switch movement on Instagram.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yes, I will. I will say that I.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
I saw one clip, but I didn't watch it long
enough or I guess I didn't want to watch it
long enough to get disappointed.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
But this is what I do know.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
I do know that Philip Ingram, his voice is in
mine for him and maybe eight.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Year old de mirror.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Is this dreaming of the day where that Ingram voice
and met the Barge voice meets again at some.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Point in this lifetime? So some way, yeah, that was
That was my lofty way of asking. Has that ever
come up in the last twenty years, like.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
Sometimes you have to be blunt with me as some
things go over my head. Yeah, okay, I got you,
But no, you know what, that would be great. I
would love to sing with Philip. Philip is Phillips, I like,
I love his voice.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, he's a master. He's a master.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
So how was how was the door opened so that
you guys could also sign the motown In the one.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
Bobby, he sort of tricked me into coming out here
because I really didn't want to be in the group.
I wanted to stay in Grand Rapids and don'tant to
ask me why, but I did, you know, I was
young man. So he said, well, ell, I need you
to come out here and just play for my second
album that I call Your Name album. So I was

(26:10):
excited then, you know, because first he was saying we
could starting this group the Barge. I can't be in
the bars because I'm stuck in the contract we switch.
I never really wanted to be in the group. Switch
that loan, That's what I said. He said. My dream
was to have a family group, he said, but they
extended our contract, picked up the option. So I'm want
to do it through you guys. He said, Hell, I
want you to be the least singer. I want Bunny, Randy, Marty,

(26:33):
so on and so forth. I didn't want to do it,
So Bobby didn't want the group to get started without me,
so he put it on the hold. But he got
me to come to California when he said help me
with my album. And I'm a Bobby the Barge fan,
so when he said help me with my elbow, I
was like, okay. He wanted me to play the piano.
I was like, oh shoot, I'm gonna play piano if
I want to switch the album. So he got me

(26:56):
out here and he said, okay, I'm glad you're here.
Now we're going to have a eating with our managers,
Jermaine and Hazel Jackson. So I need y'all just sit
and wait for me while I had his meeting. So
we're in Jermaine's office. It's this big, beautiful white baby
grand piano. Man, it was pretty so me or anybody
Marty James was you know out here at the time.

(27:19):
We looked at it. I started playing, We started singing.
We sung about two or three songs, and then we
heard hand claps and we look behind us Jermaine and
Hazel standing there and mister Gordy mm hmmm. And that's
how Bobby had tricked us into an audition.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
I got you.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Have you ever seen an office? Have you ever seen
an office where the walls open up like a door,
like the all and then it just opens up.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Now, I've seen that at will Smith South, Yes, So
then the rest of us say.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
I've seen it in movies, yeah, which is.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
So that's where I was in Jermaine's office.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Wow, okay, because.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
I didn't even know anybody was in there because all
we saw was a wall the office behind the wall.
So they were standing there the whole time with the
all open. And that's how we auditioned. And so I'm like, okay,
he got me, Bobby, and we was on the road,
and then everybody made me feel like, hell, you got
to do it, Come on, you got to do it.
And I've always wanted to just stay in the background.

(28:24):
For some reason, I never wanted to be lead singer.
I never wanted to be out front.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Why are you so shy about that? Clearly you're the leader.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
I'm brave, That's what it is. I'm brave a lot
of things that I might be reluctant to do. I'm
still brave enough to do it if I know it
has to be done. I'm not a person. If it's
got to be done, I'll bring it. So I saw
the big picture. Then I was like, well, I got
to do this for the family. But to be honest

(28:53):
with you, I'm glad I did do it because my
mind I changed my mind down the line somewhere, and
I was happy that that Bobby saw fit to uh
trick me into an audition.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
When you talk about working on that Switch album, did
you do the vocal arrangement for the that.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
We are sending you this message to the intro is
that you are you playing on it?

Speaker 4 (29:19):
No? No, not that one. No, that's Eddie Fluellen in
the group. He ranged that. Ah, okay, okay, But I
played piano on I Call Your Name and shit, yeah,
just a little bit, Bobby. Then Bobby took over and
played piano. I love you. Bobby Can really played the piano.
It was really he was really good.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
It just hit me what I forgot to mention. I
was talking to Jimmy Jam right before, about an hour
before we did this. He told me that, without no doubt,
you know, of course he's worked with literally everyone by now,
but he said that, without no doubt, you are probably

(29:59):
in his top five favorite clients that he's ever worked with.
And he said that especially, he said that you would
often just sit at the piano and just start doing chords,
and he he himself was just like, you know, as
a piano player that you have to admire someone who

(30:24):
he was talking about your chord structure. He knew you
had gospel training with a little bit of jazz chops,
but really like made it your own.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
And he just said that one of his favorite.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Things as a professional producers is sitting watching you and
I guess speaking of like not knowing someone's behind you,
watching like Jam would say that often. You know that
that was his favorite thing in the world, like watching
you do that.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yeah, that's a big statement from Yeah, that's a big
statement coming from Jail.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah. Wow, did you ever play any other instruments like bass, guitar.
Was you primarily just focused on.

Speaker 4 (31:05):
Piano, saxophone, violin, and uh yeah, that's about it.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Saxophone violin, that's about it.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Ship because everybody played the clarinet in grade school right.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Quarter that I played the clarinet.

Speaker 5 (31:24):
Look at you?

Speaker 8 (31:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (31:26):
Well, and you know what was what was an interesting
song that I did? Honestly, I did it because my
man Susany Pass and Tony Jones were my managers at
the time. Man it thought it would be a good idea.
That's the only reason why I did it. But speaking
of not doing things, because you can't really see it

(31:47):
sometimes I don't see all the way through. And I'm
glad I've had direction and I was enough to take
it from other people because it was a good move.
Remember who's Johnny.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yes, yes, yes, circuit too, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
And tried to look the other way.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
Yeah. I didn't want to do that song.

Speaker 5 (32:04):
I know that I could tell. I just know I
can tell. No, you know what, let me explode, let
me explore.

Speaker 6 (32:10):
I could tell because in my mind I knew el DeBarge.
And although I loved that song and my mind, it
didn't it just didn't go with.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
No but I have questions about that first solo record,
but I don't want to skip it yet finished.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Finishing story point.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
So for the first solo record, now you go ahead,
and I want to hear it.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Now before okay, before you real quick? Did you want
to do the Facts of Life episode? Did you want
to do that?

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Wait a minute first, yes?

Speaker 6 (32:49):
Yet to me, I'm here for All This Love conversation.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Okay, we're not even on the first record yet. All right,
let's go to the first album. How long did it
take you, guys? Did you guys have those songs all
ready for your very first record? People tend to think
that All This Love is your first record, when actually
that's your second album and the the Barges that came
out in eighty one, which weird enough, Queen of My

(33:14):
Heart and Share My World are originally on that record. Yeah,
but what how much time did you guys have to prepare?

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Did you even have meetings on like who gets the helmet? Like?

Speaker 2 (33:27):
How are decisions made as far as what goes on
the album, especially when it's between siblings.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
Well, what we did, we had We had a project manager,
Iras Gordy Berry Gordy's knees every other day. She was
the project manager. She what she would do is she
would come in the studio and say, okay, who wrote what?
Put your names out on this writer's split sheet? Who
wrote this? Who wrote that? So we would all put
our names out next to the songs we wrote, and

(33:54):
then I would turn into credits whose song what? We
had a deadline that we almost never made share my
World and Queen of My Heart. As you said, that
was on our first record, You're right, it was. It
was record out before uh, the Author's Love album. So

(34:15):
I put it on? Which album? I put it? I
put it on.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
You put Queen of my Heart on in a Special Way.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
And Share my World too, and you put.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Share My World on the Rhythm of the Night, Rhythm
of Night.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Okay, wise, because we had a deadline. Now we had
another song that needs to be recorded for the Inn
Special Way album. But Missus already said, nope, you got
a deadline. It's not gonna make it on the album
because you you gotta still do the vocals. It's not
gonna make it. And he was real strict about it.
He said, it's just not gonna make it on the album.
But we needed another song, so I said, let me

(34:48):
pull my song from from the first records. It's a done,
put it on it and just remix it, right.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Always wanted to do that, Okay, I see.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
The the credits and stuff will get mixed up sometimes,
like like, for instance, stay with Me. You know it's
my name's not on there as a writer, but I
wrote it. Marty's name is.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
On there, and I hope that got fixed.

Speaker 6 (35:14):
It didn't, wow, okay, because Marty just forward everything.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
So at the time, you're thinking like, oh, stay with
Me is like some really cool filler and this will
be consequential to my life in the next twenty five years,
will it?

Speaker 4 (35:36):
No, I never think much. I love to stay with
Me from the beginning. See Marty, when he came to me,
he said, well, I need you to help me write
this song, and he had the hook stay with me,
Stay with me, Stay with me, Stay with me. I said, okay, right,
we gotta got to do more than that though, some variation, right,
So he just laughing in my hands, and I started

(35:58):
really feeling it. Core chain started. It just started coming
to me. So I wrote the rest of the song
and I went in and recorded it, and he loved
it and but my name's not.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
I just hope that the publishing was fixed at least
that much, because Nope, And at no point was that
considered like, hey, this is good enough for a single.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Yeah, I mean I thought so, but you have to
remember the Barge was going through a transition with Motown
at that time. I was becoming solo and right Garry
Gordy was Motown was pushing him to the back. Right
started a lot of controversy.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Okay, no, no, you're not ready.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
To talk about that yet, not yet.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
I think, you know, I actually think it's it should
be noted that, uh, there was once a time where
a song like stay with Me was just like a
regular song, like just yeah, it was like a B side, Yeah,
just like a throwaway, which you know, considering the state
of music now, you know that's that's amazing to be

(37:10):
too much.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
Yeah, but you know what, it was treated like a
single though it never was right.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Right exactly now, that was my favorite even when I
brought when I got that record that that was always
my favorite to Bart's song. Side note, guys, side note,
as I say this for Silent Treatment, one of those
remixes we attempted kind of a stay with me asque

(37:38):
attempt with the one and only L won't get this
but lie about the mimic about to lose their minds
with this with the one and only Richard Nicols singing
the hook.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
She gets it.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
I got No, we were, I mean back in ninety
three ninety four, where like you had to have like
five remixes on the record, right, yeah, I have.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
I have them all.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
No, No, but way before before one More.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Chance came out, we we actually stopped it once our
boy told us that Big L had.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Used because he used MVP.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
He used it right exactly when he told us that,
then we like put it to bed. But we did.
There is a silent treatment remix completed with Richard Nichols
singing in a high false.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
And he couldn't sing it.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
But our whole, our whole logic was like, well, old
thirty bastard can't sing.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
So this is hip hop. Like just do any this
back where you can just do anything in the name
of quote. This is hip hop. So yeah, I have
to find yeah, bring it back.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
No, not really, not even a beat, not even a beat.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
We we we used it for something else, but nah
we we we put it to bed. But you know,
when Biggie blew up with it, I got salty like
damn you know, but it was you know, uh But actually,
you know what, I'm glad you mentioned her name because
what was Iris's like Iris's role? I know, I know

(39:22):
you said she was Barry's niece, but what was her
role at Motown?

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Because anytime.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Someone from Motown made an appearance on Soul Train, don
always figured out a way to shout out Iris Iris
Gordy in the audience or watching or whatever. But was
she always the product manager?

Speaker 1 (39:41):
And and she was?

Speaker 4 (39:43):
She basically she was.

Speaker 5 (39:45):
She was.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
She's very musical. She loved being around music all the time.
So I guess that's why Verry Gordy, uh Chapper as
a project.

Speaker 5 (39:54):
Nepotism in the black people.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
She did. She she knew what she was doing too.
She she she knows she was doing she was.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Was the appearance with Jermaine and anyone the first time
you guys were in national television. You guys did Soul
Train once before you did it on your own as
de Barge.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
But kind of ass.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
Like, okay, did we do stop? Don't tease me?

Speaker 1 (40:15):
You did stop? Don't tease me and you did.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
I like it back when that was like maybe a
throwaway song or something.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
I love it when you remind people of their past.
That's my favorite thing. Just in case you forgot, Yeah,
you were you were a tuxedo. You were a tuxedo
with no jacket.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Wait, okay, this is I hope I don't get trouble
for this question.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
But I always wanted to know.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
So you guys are a family unit, your own motel. Obviously,
of course, when you're thinking of the lineage of motown
and being a family, of course, the J word is
always going to pop up, and you know you're associated
with one of those J words, which you're main. But
I always wanted to know, like why, because the one

(41:05):
thing that you guys rarely did was choreography.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
I'm so glad you're not mad at me for asking
you this question. No, but like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
I take it back when you when y'all did baby
once you come Quick, y'all, y'all had some moves together
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Yeah, but that's the one.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
The one thing that always puzzled me was that I
knew that they were putting so much energy behind you guys.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
But it's like the one thing you were the first Motown.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Act that I saw presented as a five person group
as a family. But you guys never had a choreography
like not since uh what's what's the boy band?

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Before? What's the boy band? Now?

Speaker 2 (41:53):
The one that Harry styles was in one direction? Wonderrec
one direction? When I saw one direction on senl init
a minute, this feels familiar, I said the barge.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Why you're the first person to draw that comparison.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Absolutely well, no, no, no, no, it's just that I used
to seeing I'm used to seeing five people act out upon.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, doing these intricate things, and you guys never did that.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
Wait where y'all y'all in Philadelphia? Booked me a flight
to Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
In New York right now, about to pull up, about
to pull up.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
But you know, I'm telling the truth, Like why wasn't
why like why didn't you guys go.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Through that that? Uh? I guess you could say Charlie
Akins phase of like was that going by Motown by now?
Like the whole yeah, all that stuff?

Speaker 4 (42:52):
Okay, Well, you know what I was wondering the same thing.
I think it's because a lot of us couldn't dash.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Probably I never thought of that.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
Left you can move, Yeah, but they brought choreographers in
and it was like it was a joke.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
It was a joke. Choreographers started crying.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
I know, I fell down a rabbit hole where I
just looked at every DeBarge clip from even.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
The McDonald's commercials. Everything.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
Oh yeah, it was so.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I just notice that you guys were just two stepped
on your own.

Speaker 5 (43:34):
You really think about.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
That video, Yeah, you just two stepped on your own.
You just screwed, which I mean was cool enough. Your
your voices were perfect. You guys made up like no
one complained, like I was singing your asses off.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Right, But have you ever have you ever seen any
of our live shows? Okay, if you haven't. Back in
the day, my brother Marty mm hmm was all over
the stage all the time. And I know this had
a lot to do with with the core everything because
I remember Susany Pass and Berry Gordy saying like this
just throwing as up what we did from how we rehearsed.

(44:11):
No matter what kind of choreography we be there, Marty
would stepped out of the choreography and come up to
the edge of the stage all the time and start
kicking his legs around doing karate and it's no secret.
All you do is watch some old foot that you'll
see it and uh, what was the thing in the
eighties And it's like, it's okay, so much for the choreography.

(44:32):
He would do it all the time, and James and
Randy Buddy, We'll be looking at him. And then next
thing I know, he's standing next to me and I'm
I'm singing solo.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
I'm like, Marty, what yo, I'm so glad you said that,
because what.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
Are you doing? Mary? You feels Marty good?

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Wait wait, well, okay, slight confession. I had part two
to that question. I wasn't going to ask the second
part unless you answer the first part. The second part
was definitely your brother, Marty. Everybody known to do.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
Some crazy Well, one thing about what he does his homework.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
No, twice twice Marty.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
I have two clips of Marty where he will whereever, like, Okay.

Speaker 6 (45:19):
There's a Marty wearing the pink shirt and all this
love cover on album cover.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
It could be Yeah, that's him, he's right in the middle.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
I knew that he was wearing.

Speaker 5 (45:33):
Yes, that's Marty Okay, got it. I just want to
get everybody.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
No.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
But there's there's a there's a I forget what song
it was.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
It wasn't you Were It was a song where it
tas a guitar solo in it, and it wasn't you
Wear It? Well, it might have been baby Once you
Come Quick, But he took this like Hendrick's esque guitar
solo without without a guitar strap at that So even
then I was like, wow, he's doing that without a
guitar strap. But he was like on his knees, on

(46:01):
his back and everything. You guys were two stepping, like
doing your regular two step thing whatever. But in my mind,
I was like, wow, he's really going over the top
with his guitar solo, like really means this ship.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah when it comes to right.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
But in concert were you guys doing, Like was it
like that as well? I totally forgot that. When we
did the baby Face episode, he told us that you
guys opening for Luther and when the deal was on
the road with you guys, that that was your your
your shows were incredible and his in his words that

(46:38):
they were incredible. But I was basically asked about Marty
like did he always do those over the top solos
in concert as well?

Speaker 4 (46:46):
Every show? Every each and every concert. Wow, if it was,
it was amazing because he always say that he wasn't
gonna do it no more, and then we'll do it.
We had to have meetings about it. Group mes serious

(47:07):
means all right, listen, Matt, you we made a bruise.
We start, You're gonna get it doc all this stuff.
He right back out.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, Oh my god, I've been dying and know this. Okay,
this this is what makes the show worth having. I've
been dying to know this answer for decades and it
happened just like I thought in my head.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
Yep, you're right right.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
What were those early tours like once all this left
came out?

Speaker 4 (47:40):
It was our first time out there Motown. They they well,
Barry Gordon, he cheated tricked us too. We didn't know you.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Guys got tricked a lot in your career, but.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
This was kind of this was kind of a cool
one though. Here we didn't we didn't really know that
we were that popular because all we did was we
got up in the morning at six and the limbo
was outside are waiting for us, and we drive up
to Barry Gordye's house. We stayed there all day and
then the nighttime. Then will take us to the studio
and from the studio to home next day, repeat same

(48:14):
thing for months and months. So we didn't see anything.
We didn't we didn't know what was happening on in
the outside world. Were just studio rats man and mister
Gordye's house, studio sleep. So when we went on on
that first tour, man, they were telling us, well, you
gonna have to work really hard. The album's not doing
that great. Uh you know. I said, well, it looks
like on the charts it looks pretty good. Like it's

(48:36):
doing pretty good to me. They said, well, you're a
airplay hit. You know. Back back then that was thing
called being an airplay hit. You weren't really selling that
many records, but you was just playing a lot, you
know what I mean. Yeah, So I said, okay, They said,
so you have to work really hard to get these
fans to come out. Uh, you know, do the best

(48:56):
you can. So we get out there. Man. We got
off the planning and we getting ready to go to
our first show. No, before we go to the show,
we had to go to an in store, Remember the
in stores, Yes, we think. We didn't think nobody was
gonna be there. They told us it'll be a few
people here. To just be nice to them, you know,
because they came out in the snow, so be nice
to him.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Is this Detroit?

Speaker 4 (49:18):
This wash? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Yeah, I knew the story.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I read about this and ride on magazine.

Speaker 7 (49:26):
But go ahead, go ahead, memory, But is this the one?

Speaker 4 (49:30):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Simple want to drop something about like fans going crazy
almost tearing up.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
The place or whatever.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
But no, no, not that, not that I know.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Something happened in Detroit.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
Not that.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Let you know that you guys were celebrities.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
Well what happened was actually it was New York. It
was in Detroit. It was New York.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Okay, the snow was.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
Real deep, and uh, the limo got stuck in the snow.
So we got out of walking because they said, well
the in stores only two blocks away. We walked into
snow in store and uh, finally the limo pulls up
after we get there. He got understuck. So we see
all these people and I'm thinking they're for somebody else.

(50:12):
We all did. We were like, okay, you just walked up,
like who else is here? What other sleepers because they
ain't here for us. We ain't that popular.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
I tried to walk in the front door.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
Yeah okay, and then they we had to get back
in the limo real quick.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
And then they start rocking the limo like this, pushit
limo going up. This was in the snow, man, now
for us not to be popular, so they tried to
tell us that, and then we went from not being
popular in our minds to having some really really haven't
energetic motivated fans because they was rocking that limo. I'm

(50:58):
telling you, man, there.

Speaker 6 (50:59):
Was was y'all prepared for that, Like had Bobby or
anybody prepared Like, no.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
We wasn't prepared for that because they told us, you know,
you're not doing too good.

Speaker 6 (51:09):
But I mean when you finally when you finally realize
you're doing good, you got all these fans where y'all
prepared for what came about.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
We was in the snow. One of them was pulling
my hair asking me for an autograph, and I'm looking
up at it like it was I literally I was
on the ground, I was on the pavement, and then
I'm looking for Bunnie. I'm trying to protect her and
she's up against the car and then Marty's back there
loving it. He's oh, girls, he's hey.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
And this is pre security.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
Pre scurity was busy. Guess what security was busy doing.
He was trying to save there on. You know what,
you honestly, you had a whole bunch of New York fans.
You know, it is New York, New York, and they tough,
and security was trying to keep them back from very
gates man. They ate the security for breakfast.

Speaker 6 (52:05):
Hell, can I ask you a question because you mentioned
this earlier on We were talking about growing up and
you were kind of like in Grand Rapids you were
fighting like the black folks the white folks, you know,
because you were mixed.

Speaker 5 (52:15):
I love that you say half read such an error anyway, Uh, but.

Speaker 6 (52:19):
My question is like, what does it feel like now
that people are looking at you and think, y'all the
most beautiful, talented people in the world. These are black people,
white people, Like, how do y'all mentally do you just
leave at what happened in Grand Rapids?

Speaker 4 (52:32):
And you know what, we always wanted to be accepted,
especially by black people. We have we have my mother's
side of the family it's all black. So we for
that reason, we like cleave to them because we just
wanted to be accepted by black people, like because we
were told you ain't black and uh, and then white

(52:55):
people you ain't white either, right, you know, that's how
it was in the sixties and the real controversy. But
so when we got accepted by our cousins, you know,
our black cousins, and that's when we first discovered we mean,
I'm not black, I'm black. Black comes in different shades.

(53:16):
For for a while, we didn't know what we were
because my mother didn't talk about it. We didn't talk
to her about it. We didn't like to worry about
about this stuff on the way home from school, fighting
and stuff. She would never know it until one of
us was bleeding or something. Uh. But other than that,
we kept it from her. Well, my dad knew. But shoot,
we had to protect him.

Speaker 6 (53:36):
Really because I was in the black neighborhood.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
Yeah, yeah, we had to protect him. But so when
we especially when we got with Motown because it was
it was predominantly a black label, it was just probably
be black man being around among our people, and uh.
And then and then to see so many people of
color at our concerts and stuff. We we always had
a pop up pill. It just came natural for us.

(54:01):
So you know, uh, we were crossover anyway.

Speaker 6 (54:04):
But a lot they had to do with color too
in that way, which is yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
Yeah, yeah, like white. What they said, like Brandon almost worried,
you know, Oh, don't be hating now.

Speaker 6 (54:15):
I'm just laughing because you can't say that in twenty
twenty one.

Speaker 5 (54:17):
I was like never yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:20):
And my brother Chico, he was real adamant about it.
He was he was like he's young than me, but
he taught me about the word Hugh. You know, Hugh
h u e. He's like Q man, different shades of
one color, that's what we are. And uh but that
was a real man. I seemed like a big thing
to some people, but it was a really big thing
to us. And so you know, like to be around

(54:42):
dark skinned people, man our people, it was like and
they accepted us. It was like it wasn't no things.
Yeah you black and said yeah, but you just don't
know where we came from, what we went through. To
hear you say that, man, it's like I almost want
to pay you.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
Well, I want to ask a question about physically about
the song all this Love. Was that written specifically for
Marvin or was it just influenced by Marvin?

Speaker 4 (55:07):
It was written for Marvin. I wrote it, my brother
read it. You know the way we write, We write
off of each other vibes. Randy was just sitting next
to me, and I love Randy so much. Man, that's
my that's my cat. His personality, his spirit is so beautiful. Man,
if you ever be around it, you know what I'm
talking about. So just because of that, I just felt

(55:30):
I had some problem. No one could sing the South
Anty me just like that question out of nowhere, the
word and the feeling, and I remember it felt so good.
I felt like crying. It was just felt so good.
And and Randy said, man, that's an like something you
should you should write for Marvin. Man, you know, you

(55:52):
should write there for Marvin. So I finished the song
and I took it to mister Gordy and I said,
I wrote this for Marvin and he was like, no, no, what.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
So Marvin never heard it. Jeordan Barry he shot it down.
Martyn left by this time.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
Also, although I found out that Marvin did hear when
I met Marvin. Oh, I found out he did here
what Marve's what he saying, Well, he only heard it
because somebody at Motown had got it to him. Uh okay,
I'm not going to be mission no names. I know
who it was. When I'm gonna tell no no, somebody somebody.

Speaker 5 (56:35):
Got off to her in.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
It's forty years after the fact.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
Right right, Well anyway, but by that time it was
on our album. And uh so when Marvin, when we
did the Motown twenty five, that's when I first Marvin
and he picked me up like this. I don't know
if you ever seen the pictures of that. He picked
me up in air like he.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Was like wow, really, oh wow?

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Yeah? And I was shy, man, you should show me that.
I was like like a little a little groopie. I
have my head. Marv Gaates is ELDI bars. I was like,
you know, so he picked me up like this, he said,
So this is young man that everybody says, sound like me.
You're gonna get me trouble boy.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (57:25):
Matter of fact, you see your pictures, they're they're on
they're on the internet, right.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
I got a search that like him.

Speaker 4 (57:31):
He got me like this way up in the air,
off my feet.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
I have a question about the the All This Love record?

Speaker 1 (57:41):
You know again this of course in eighty two.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
This this could just be like an everyday thing, but
I mean, these are monsters that you have on your record,
on your record, like, first of all, Benjamin, what was
it like working with Benjamin?

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Well, even before I.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Get to Benjamin right almost, how did you wind up
producing or at the helm of producing this record? I
would assume that your brother had a lot to do
with the first record. What was the meeting that changed
the personnel and the process on All This Love?

Speaker 1 (58:15):
That was different from the first record?

Speaker 4 (58:17):
You did because I knew what I wanted and it
seemed that nobody else did. I tried to work with
other producers, but the songs was going in the wrong direction,
and and it was it wasn't a problem with them
for them, they knew it too. In fact, a couple
of producers said, hell, you should do this yourself, as

(58:41):
that's the only way the song is going to stay
the way it was born and you have your own ideas.
And so I wanted to produce it myself then, but
most time wasn't gonna let me do it. They said, no,
you don't have an experience as producer, you on what
you're doing. So it was because of Stevie wondering to

(59:06):
this day, I thank him for that. He he he
told mister Gordy because Stevie heard he came to the
studio a lot and he would hear what he was doing.
And so I said, STEVEE, they won't let me produce
it though, so he went to mister Gordon. He said,
if you don't let these guys produce it, be making
the grave error. He said, because it's very special what

(59:27):
he has and you should take a chance on him.
Let him do it. That's what he told me. And
they did so because and it was really because Stevie
had said that, you know. And I thank him for
that to this day, because from that point on I
was I didn't really know a lot, but but I
learned it as I was going along, and my brother

(59:49):
Bobby taught me some things. But there's something you have
to get from yourself, you know what I'm saying, question
get it from within you, within you. And I had
to find what that was through trial and there. Whether
it was going to be a mistake or not, it's
just just would have happened be a mistake because it
was something I had to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Do at the time, did you know. Okay, So first
of all, like Benjamin Wright is doing horn arrangements and stuff.
He did like the string arrangements on Michael Jackson's Off the.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Wall justin timber Lake. Yeah, yeah, and yeah and justin
timber Lakes.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Right, swag together the others.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
But I mean also with like, I mean, it's not
often that you see like a.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Like Russell Ferrante's name from.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
The Old Jackets or Freddie Washington. Yeah, the you know,
the the ready for ready for forgive.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Me, not to forget me?

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Not right, even Rick Scott, Daniel Lamel, how did you
get all these months? Say, yeah, Ricky Lawson and Ali
Brown Richard, you had all the monsters on this record,
which I know in eighty two that was like that's

(01:01:08):
whatever everybody was was at the top of their craft.
It's yes, we're in a we're in a place now
in twenty twenty one where there's such a drought of
talent that it's just mind baffling to me that all
these great talents are on one record when to them
it could have just been a Wednesday Thursday morning check.
But how did you even did you have relationships with
these musicians in the beginning.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
Yeah, my brother Bobby was responsible for that. He knew
all of them. He knew all He got his Ricky Lawson,
Oli Brown, Leon and Google Chancellor, right, Harvey Mason, theyd
all some stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Lasiana's doing guitar solo and all this love right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
Yeah. Him and Charles Fairing, Yeah, yeah, him and Charles Fairing.
To be honest with your childs. Fairing played the solo first.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
It was Iris's idea to bring Holy Jose Felic on it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
He was on Motown at the time, right, Yeah, he
was on Motile Yeah, signing eighty two. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
She said, let's just try him. Let's try I know
we got Charals doing the soulo already, but let's just
try and see what Jose could come up with. So
we blended the two. A lot of people don't notice
we blended them both together. Wow, Charles and Jose planning
at the same time at the same time. A lot
of good time players find out figure that out when
they try to play the solo. Wowkle's easy, but it's

(01:02:33):
not one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
One more question.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
So I know the name, I know that either she
did well, she's listed under vocal arrangements.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
I'm assuming that maybe background or whatever. I don't know.
But the Linda Howard that's mentioned here, that was Linda
Howard formerly of High Energy. Correct.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
Yeah, yeah, what song was it? Thought?

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
I don't well, just says, uh, vocal arrangements Linda Howard.
That's just so random to me. Only asked that Linda
Howard is the first person I ever wrote a fan
letter to when I that's interesting, U.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
No, it's just listed on the album, not not.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Oh okay, I got what. I get what you saying? Yeah, okay,
So did you have a did you have a fan
crush on her?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
I did? Yeah, I mean I was.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
I was a high Energy fan actually, speaking of Motown
twenty five, even even though some some person sort of
ate the energy up in the room for that particular night,
I will say that, uh, you know, for a lot
of us. Also, our our favorite moment on that show
was the kind of de barge high energy mix up

(01:03:50):
of uh, he's a pretender and I forget what song
you guys did?

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
Uh we did can't stop together?

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Right? Exactly? What was it like doing Motown twenty five?

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
Oh? Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Well, besides Marvin No.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
No, I know. Can you imagine all of the talent
that was there. It was tense too. It was it
was tense because we were kind of like almost working
on CPE time because.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Because it took five hours almost just.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
To get everybody together. Susany Pass is so great, man.
I mean, she the relationships, the way she deals with people.
People didn't want certain artists didn't even want to come
back and do it and be a part of it.
But Susanne, with her grace herself, she was able to
talk to them into doing it. So because of that,
time was getting away from from us, and a lot

(01:04:45):
of them decided to agreed to do it at the
last minute. Michael didn't even agree to do it until
until the last minute, right, yeah. So you know imagine
you're going to schedule time. It's television, you know how
that is. So it was a lot of tense, a
lot of tension going on a matter. It was everybody was.
It was crazy, man. But I didn't even know how

(01:05:06):
it was going to turn out. The day we actually
did it, I was like, is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
This going Were things shot separately or was it shot
currently in a row?

Speaker 4 (01:05:14):
Was it straight com currently okay, yep, straight too, man, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):
I got that dance step. And at that time, no ya,
I was.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Gonna say that's phiography.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
Can I redeem myself with the dance biography? I redeem
myself geography?

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Yes, you yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
Have you seen a real love video, a real love video?

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Yes, I've seen it? Yes, No, you you know you
got it together? You gotta.

Speaker 4 (01:05:47):
I don't say something, say something.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
You got bro. I couldn't dance. I just say, y'all
didn't work with the choreographer. That's all A big difference,
big difference. We should have mentioned.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
I mean yes, I don't want any classics.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
I like it. And the process of writing that song.

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
Brandy was playing the bass over and over again, boom
boom boom, doom boom boom boom boom, just over and
over again, and he kept singing, My brothers they do
this to me all the time. They have one part
and they sing it over and over again and then
tell me too, so Randy, But and I don't mind

(01:06:35):
doing it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:35):
But the lucky number seven.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
That's where he lucky number seven. Let's go to Vegas.
So anyway, that's what he had. And then you know,
I wasn't gonna leave it like that. We had to
come up with a verse, and that we did so
I didn't thinking about you, you know, it just felt right, man.
I love writing with Randy. He's his spirit just makes
you want to write. So that's how we came up

(01:07:00):
with it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Okay, I was going to say that the process, I like,
it's one of those songs in which I think there's
two totally different verses.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
It's almost like the Saturday Love Thing.

Speaker 4 (01:07:12):
Yeah, totally different hooks too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Right, but it's it's still but it's somehow in my mind,
I feel like it's two different hooks, two different verses,
but it's just reinterpreted different.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
And I actually I actually admire that process, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:29):
Oh, I hear what you're saying when we brought back
to the first verse to.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Second exactly exactly. I admire that trick, and I wish
I could master that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
You know, Chico told me that he was the first
one that told me, you said, ell you the only
one to know that can do that and pull it
off because I did it in All Is Love too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Wait a minute, yeah, god, you're right. Wow, problem if
you just sing it different? Ah? Man, Okay, I didn't
notice that tool. Right now, I want.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
To ask you about just your writing of creating of
Loved Me in a Special Way, because I just I
love that song. That was just I had like a
lot of memories to that as a kid, like what
was that?

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
What was that like when you made that?

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
I got good memories of that song. I was driving
on Freeway headed west one oh one. I was on
my way to Billy Preston's house.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Oh why, it was.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
A traffic jam, and that song just hit me. You
would you know traffic jams in LA. A song like
that's not supposed to hit you. It's something mean is
supposed to right, But that song just hit me, man,
And the chorus was in my head and I couldn't
wait to get to Billy's. I said, I gotta get
to a piano. So I remember getting off the freeway

(01:08:49):
and trying to take the streets because he lived way
Hull and drive way up in the canyons. And when
I got there, I said, Billy, where's the piano? Man?
I got to play this really quick before it gets
out of my head. And I was playing the chords
love Me in a Special Way and seeing just the
melody that I had at the time. I said, now

(01:09:09):
this is it sounds too Gospelly. I ain't gonna do
nothing with this. And I looked at Billy and Billy
was crying. Man, I'm not crying, but he had a
tear rolling on his nose like this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
I just looked like this. I remember looking like this,
like what happened is like why is he crying? And
he said, man, that's beautiful. Man record the man, please
record it. But I couldn't.

Speaker 6 (01:09:33):
So as we hear it, well, as we heard it,
you played it for Billy the song that we hear it, right.

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
Yeah. I did the same thing with Time and Reveal.
I didn't think it was I thought Time Reveal was
too corny. Remember I told you at the beginning of
our talk sometimes you can't see all the way through.
And because you know, he said, I like it, but
ain't nobody don't like it. So Chico said, man, are
you serious? Time Reveal? That's the business. I said, it's

(01:09:58):
too corny, man, nobody want to hear. What can I
do to make.

Speaker 5 (01:10:00):
It because at the time, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
You know Rick James, you know, give it to me
baby and all that stuff. Yeah, So I like, nobody
want to hear this? He said, Man, just do me
a favor, just recorded for me. I said, okay, let
you know.

Speaker 5 (01:10:17):
That you're the a.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
I'm sorry, Who's whose decision was it to give James
his looks for uh in a special way? Because he
got more lead on sid I'm sold on side one.
Uh you know what would be my lady and need somebody?

Speaker 4 (01:10:38):
Well, yeah, James h James is always danced to his
own beat, march to his own beat. He wasn't in
the group at first, you know, on the first al right,
on the very first, and I fought for my little
brother to get in the group. I worried mister Gordy
to death about it. I pestered him every day. I
started putting James on songs, let them sing so Mster

(01:11:01):
Goady could hear it, And finally they signed him up.
He was buying all the slove he was in the group.
He was just I don't know, uh, he just Marshy
was on. But he's just different. I like it. Well,
James has a really nice tone in his mid range,
but he doesn't like to sing there. He likes to

(01:11:22):
go up high. And yeah, he's kind of piercing.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
Yeah, James, he did a record and I know we'll
get to it. James did a record, I mean years
ago with DJ Quick called the Divorced Song. Yeah, and
I heard the song. I thought it was you because
I just heard it. I didn't have the credits in
front of me. I was like, Yo, this is I
was like, hell killing this. And then when I saw
the credits, I was like, oh shit, this is James.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
James right right.

Speaker 4 (01:11:45):
So many times I had Baby, I ain't got nothing
to fool to you. No, I want not to ease.
Sure's nothing home with my keys, so we can get
it on.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
For the in the Special Way album, especially with touring
behind it. I know you guys toured with Luther Vandros.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
What was that like?

Speaker 4 (01:12:14):
Amazing? Luther Vandros was like the uncle and the papah
he was. He was the coach, he was the principal
at school. We was like his little brother said he
was like the whole time we were out with Luther,
he was disciplining us and teaching us the ropes. I
mean we got on stage a minute late one time

(01:12:36):
and he fined us fifteen thousand dollars.

Speaker 9 (01:12:40):
Damn.

Speaker 4 (01:12:40):
Wait what fifteen thousand dollars.

Speaker 6 (01:12:43):
He comes collecting like he looks for that, like after
he said he'd come back and be like with my money.

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
Well yeah, yep. But see the thing is we were
in union halls, you know. Oh they was doc him
and he said, no, y'all got to pay me. You can't.

(01:13:09):
You can't be on too late, you can't get off
too late. And the Union hallsman, and then Radio City
Music Hall that's when we got. That was the biggest fine, real.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Time a lot, yeah, metty.

Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
Radio City Music Hall was thirty thousand dollars Jesus because
we got on late and went off late and they
pulled the plug on us. And then yeah, so we
learned our lessons the highway. But Luther was like, he
was so cool with us, man. He I'm telling he
was like his little brothers. He was cool. He'd take
us out to eat every night, make sure we knew
the ropes. He taught us everything. Man. He used to

(01:13:46):
give us pointers about our show, and he would tell Marty, now, Marty,
you need to come down. You need to come down.
And of course when one hear and.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Okay, so a dream uh probably you know, I mean
of of your arsenal. I mean, everyone has their favorites,
but I know that A dream is is somehow like
in most of barges feel like that's always in like
their their top three songs. I know that was written

(01:14:25):
by your sister, but what what was the process of
putting that together?

Speaker 4 (01:14:29):
Well, Bunny would always again come to me and ask
me to do the music to her songs. She always
had all of her melodies and and she would even
have instrument parts. Sometimes Bunny was amazing. If she could
play the panel, she would she would be amazing. But
she had this part. But I hear that, I hear that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Everyone likes everybody translator.

Speaker 4 (01:15:00):
So then she but she had the whole song, the
melodies and everything, you know. And then so she said,
now this was this part, you know, last night I
dream you. And when she got to this part, now
here it is right here and a flash, you know.
So we figured it out. So I had to write

(01:15:20):
all the music around that. You know. I didn't know
back then that music had writing. The music had anything
to do with with writers songwriting. I thought, if you
wrote the music, you just wrote the music. But it
had nothing to do with the songwriting. Wasn't I ignorant.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
You're gonna learn. You're gonna learn one way or another.

Speaker 4 (01:15:41):
So I learned. I learned. Well, yeah, man, she's still
this day one of my favorite songwriters.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
So how shocked or how pleasantly surprised were you when
in the next ten years or fifteen years that these
songs would find new life to them where it's like,
you know, and even though we're talking about just a
choice for you with with a Dream, stay with me,

(01:16:10):
I like it and all this love. But I mean,
it's been those four songs alone have been utilized at
least like by three to five different hip hop.

Speaker 6 (01:16:20):
Classics, like I would love to know what Bunny thinks
about I A'm mad at you?

Speaker 5 (01:16:24):
What does Bunny think about that?

Speaker 4 (01:16:27):
Yeah, a lot, I should hope.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
So so I like you.

Speaker 4 (01:16:31):
I know, well, I can kick myself anyway and then
just give it.

Speaker 5 (01:16:38):
I don't understand.

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
And they knew you wrote, we wrote others, you know,
yeah that's on the next Oprah. Okay, that's not. But
I like you. You're very focused, man, question.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
I like you well, I mean, at the very least,
at the very even at the very least, even if
you didn't get to reap.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
The the you know, the the monetary highs of what
those songs could reap in.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Yeah, then at least it's brought timeless. You can perform
those songs, those songs would never die.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
You to remember me? You asked me, what did I
think people go this fire? Remember me the one who
didn't even want to record time and reveal Because I didn't. Right,
So you know, I'm shocked of all people because I
didn't even think time of reveal was or love me
in a special way was with great songs.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
I just thought, Man, love me in a special way,
that's my one. I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:17:36):
They're like to me, they're like my babies. You feel
about your kids, all of them all.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
Yeah, Now your vocal arrangement at the end of love
Me in a Special way, man, like that ship is.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
So that's just a great song.

Speaker 4 (01:17:47):
That was hawkins influence.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
Absolutely, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:17:59):
The choir. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Actually, okay, So when you're when you're giving these like
these mammoth vocal performances in the studio, like how much
pressure is it to because it's just hitting me, like
from until the day you die, everyone's going to expect
you to sing, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:18:21):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Like like at the end of the time, we'll reveal
you'll have to hold that note forever, like yeah, how
even now it's expect Thank god, your voice is been
fine form. But I mean, are there times where it's
like a collective eye roll? Like, God, can I do
I have to.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
Hit this note? Or do you just now? Are you
at the place where you just let the audience sing
those parts?

Speaker 4 (01:18:48):
Oh? No, I'm never at that place.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
Yeah, talk that ship, you know I'm from.

Speaker 4 (01:18:53):
Okay. My voice is cool, it's good. I don't have
no problems with at all. So, you know, all glory
to God, but beautiful, and I'm glad I don't because
I love singing. I love singing every note that I've
ever sung on the records. I love singing. My brother Bobby,

(01:19:16):
just to blame for that, he taught me to end
the song in a way, go out with a bang,
don't end it. Don't act like the song is ending
just because he said, keep it going. He said, build
a song from beginning to the end. He said. The
moment it becomes uninterested, uninteresting, you're losing it. You know.
Don't think because the first was great, that that's gonna

(01:19:39):
carry you. To make every part its own signature, you know,
beginning to the end, and that's that's why I do
it like that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
So for Rhythm of the Night, was there a basic strategy, like,
was there a strategy meaning beforehand that okay, we must
take them to the next level now, like let's get
to that next Yeah, and what was the results of that?

Speaker 4 (01:20:03):
It was with Diana Dyane Warner and I we were
good friends. We still are, I mean like that well,
and so we were hanging out a lot, and she
was always writing songs, speaking of that first first solo
album that we never hit talk but so Rhythm of
the Night came about, she was just well, Susany Pass

(01:20:26):
and Tony Jones, our manager at the time, they said,
we need to take them to another level, just like
you said, we need uh, we're trying to build them
and do this and that. So Diane, I need you
to write this kind of song. U RO. I didn't
even know what they were talking about, but she did.
She got down and she just wrote that song and

(01:20:46):
said here you go. Wow, she's that bad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:54):
Why was that the only video that y'all shot? Because
that's I think that's the only the barge video there
there was no wear it. Well, there's no video for
you where well, he's the facts of life.

Speaker 4 (01:21:08):
Mold Town was ready to go out. At that time,
Moldtown was declining at well, not declinent.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Well they were there, You're about to sell, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:21:17):
So all the budgets was being pulled. And see he
saw he knew before he announced that, he already knew
during the rhythm of night what he was going to do.
But uh, the artist always pays the price.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
All right, Well I wanted to know. Okay, So this
also starts the period of your career, which now these
particular ballots and you know, I can say the same
with love always and also with uh like someone where

(01:21:52):
you know, these are more pop ballots, which I ducked them.
But it kind of starts with who's holding down?

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
And now, right, did you did you?

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Did you like that? Because you didn't write it? Is
it different when you don't write a song and it's
just given to you?

Speaker 4 (01:22:09):
Yeah, it is, it's different.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
Uh, how did you feel about it then? As opposed
to now.

Speaker 4 (01:22:16):
I was paying attention to to the people that I
felt knew what they were doing. You know, I was
new to this business and I had management and for reasons.
So I was listening to him. They said, try this,
keep your mind open now, trust me, I know what
I'm talking about it. So I did, and I could

(01:22:37):
feel it the whole time that it wasn't where I
was at.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
You know, But despite it being a hit, despite it
being a hit, yeah, and a massive hit at that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
Yeah, despite it being a hit, it wasn't where I
was at.

Speaker 5 (01:22:52):
I was just saying, where were you Where the song
wasn't like, where were you.

Speaker 4 (01:22:55):
Where I was at. It was a hit, okay, so
that's where I was that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
I was with you.

Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
I was with the hitt. No, I was with that,
you know. That's where That's where my mentality was. That's
where my drive was. But there are there are other
there are other kinds of hits. I wanted to write
my own hit, and I could have still did. Who's
Holding Down and Now? But I was completely ruved from

(01:23:27):
writing period anything on that album. It was like I
was discouraged. Two. I wasn't encouraged to write. It was like,
just let somebody else write.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
Even despite the fact that you you had a great
but in their minds it was like those are black hits,
those don't count.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
Like you're going for pop right now? Yeah, it's crazy.
I know that it's crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:23:50):
And if I knew what I know, if I know
who what I know now, but I can't say because
I yeah, I felt it, but I said, well, maybe
they know something I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
And is that song still a part of your repertoire now?
Do you still do that song in your.

Speaker 4 (01:24:06):
It's like I feel mixed emotions about it because when
I when I, whenever I do it, I'm wondering, is
anybody feeling this audience right? And uh, but I know
what I do the other songs. You don't have to
say anything. I know you feeling it right, But I

(01:24:28):
haven't had the proof because pop to me back then
was like a facade. It was like it wasn't real.
It was like it was like something that was made up,
like pop was I did? Yeah, And it's like and
they played a lot of games with the paola and everything.
It was like how was a word they used to

(01:24:49):
hide all that behind, like you could get any real
any real figures or real chart and real real ratings,
say you know what I mean, not on paper. So
I don't even know what was it? Just there was
a pop chart and had numbers.

Speaker 5 (01:25:05):
Speaking truth, that was an error where people was thinking
the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:25:07):
You weren't alone, I mean, because you know black people,
it's a lot of us, man, so it can't be
the pop means popular, right right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
Well it was. It was just eighty five was definitely
a sincre swim moment, and you know it sure was
well and a lot of acts were just well, a.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
Lot of acts were going on under So it was
like the type of black music was sort of like
in a titanic position, which.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
Either got down with the program or you got.

Speaker 4 (01:25:35):
Ran over exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
And so did you feel that way about Rhythm Mother Night?
Even though I loved the.

Speaker 4 (01:25:42):
Mother Night Rhythm mother Knight was business. I loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:44):
Oh I'm glad you said that. I'm like wow, because.

Speaker 4 (01:25:48):
Memories of Who's hold Down and Now? Who's hold Down
and Now is a great song.

Speaker 5 (01:25:51):
I love who was Johnny?

Speaker 4 (01:25:53):
I love Who's Johnny? I just didn't want to do
it at that time.

Speaker 5 (01:26:00):
No, I don't know, I do love, but I did.
And also I was a little younger too, so it
was like a fun song.

Speaker 4 (01:26:05):
And I and.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
You got your own weird.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Actually, Peter Wolf, how did Peter Wolf get into the
because I know he wrote that.

Speaker 4 (01:26:14):
Yeah, he did. Peter Wolf was Actually it's very instrumental
in me doing the song. He talked me into it.
Come on, you got I mean he was fake, I
know it. I was in mic. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:26:31):
When I was singing, I was singing with like a
proper tone like Johnny he said, look the other way.

Speaker 4 (01:26:38):
But when you hear it, it's got a lot of energy.
That songs got good energy to it. I love listening
to it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
You know, you know that weird solo in the middle, Yes,
exactly what the solo was that the little scatty I
don't know what that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
Was it vote coder or that was you or something? No,
I yes, I was. I was a boor for that,
even though you know it was.

Speaker 5 (01:27:05):
Love the movie with your boy in Indian Face.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
Yeah, I forgot that was associated with short circuit damn. Yeah, okay, okay.
So Fante asked you earlier about the facts of life.
So that's my sentimental favorite because when I first got

(01:27:28):
a VCR, that's probably the very first thing I recorded
was your.

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
I will never on the facts of what No, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:27:39):
I will never, ever ever have anything bad to say
about the facts of Life because I love the girls
they were. They were so cool, They're so cute. We
were like family. We stay cool even after that for
a long time. And plus that was my first time
acting with George Kemp.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
Was right. Yeah, I was on.

Speaker 4 (01:28:05):
I did I was on. I did something with George Coloney.
I acted with George.

Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:28:11):
A lot of people don't know that's colony on there.
Oh yeah, I put that in.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
So question, Were you guys supposed to have a bigger
role in the Last Dragon or did I read that wrong?
Were you guys actually supposed to be in it as
opposed to just Vanity playing the video? But I could
have sworn like I first saw, like uh when they
were talking of the movie being made, that you guys

(01:28:40):
were actually in it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
I don't know if that was character or incorrect.

Speaker 4 (01:28:45):
I don't know, it's possible, Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:28:50):
I didn't know.

Speaker 6 (01:28:51):
It wasn't never awkward as Susan the past was management
and she was so connected to Motown.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
I'm sorry, I just yeah, yeah, it was that a
conflict interest at all?

Speaker 4 (01:28:59):
Yeah, it was. It was. I didn't know it at
the time, but that's what I was experiencing. I was
experiencing a conflict adventures the whole time. Yeah, but I
didn't know. I didn't know that's what it was. But
that's what I have, huge experiences of conflicts adventures.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
In general. Are you in a good place with her
now or yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:29:24):
I was then too, Okay, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
And she's a guess that we would like to get
on the show yees. Yeah? So in general, like, what
was it like working with her?

Speaker 4 (01:29:36):
An education, a constant reminder of uh, the worth and
the value that you have. We never left her presence,
and same with her cousin, Tony Jones. They were management together.
Both of them never left their presence feeling low. You
always felt extremely great about yourself. H You always had

(01:30:01):
a better sense of who you were. I mean this
was every time I was with them.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
Okay, man, So what was the process that finally ended,
at least at the time the lineup that we knew
of DeBarge in eighty five that led to your solo
career the next year? Like, how did that? Was there
a conversation had or was it just.

Speaker 4 (01:30:24):
Like, well, the work ethics were majorly different between me
and my siblings, right, I was always in the studio
and they were rarely showing up. Okay, so Motown saw
that brought up mister Gorge's attention in the eat. You know,

(01:30:46):
I saw more Motown people showing up at a studio
that should have been a signed to be there, and
they were just always there because they were reporting back
every time that the family wasn't there and how many
hours I was there. So missr Goury basically made it
up in his mind before I knew it. We did
photo session together as a group. The album Ready to

(01:31:08):
Come Out album came out, and my picture was this
big on the album cover.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Oh see, and the design.

Speaker 4 (01:31:16):
No small I did. Moton had done that. They had
already begun their Eldibars solo process. As you hear. They
didn't talk to me about it, They didn't talk to
anybody about it. They just started doing it. Man, that
that cased some pros.

Speaker 1 (01:31:35):
At the time.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
It couldn't have been a thing where it's like, Okay,
I'm gonna do this one solo record and then we'll
come back in eighty seven and make something else together.

Speaker 4 (01:31:44):
And see the thing is when you do a solo album,
you know, like groups today, they do a solo album.
One of them might do a solo album, but they're
still in the group. Right. But it's different when you
when you put al DeBarge with the Barge uh and uh,
and then my pictures the Vegas and then the rest
of theirs are small and it wasn't like that before.

(01:32:07):
It's gonna be some problems.

Speaker 1 (01:32:08):
Who did that? Who did that? Cause the biggest problems
with with you and your family? He's funny, put you
on the spot.

Speaker 4 (01:32:18):
Who do you take a guess? Was it?

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
It wasn't Bobby, Bobby, wasn't it was James or.

Speaker 5 (01:32:33):
Remember Blanks?

Speaker 4 (01:32:38):
I mean he righty basically spoke what the rest of
them right didn't want to say. But they don't have
no problem with speaking in his mind. But we would
be doing interviews and he was in the middle of
the interview. I don't know where he was saying, this
is not L's group, Barge.

Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
And but did he not know that wasn't your decision
or design?

Speaker 4 (01:33:01):
About as much as he knew what a good idea
to be kicking around.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
On stage, it didn't matter. He was gonna do it regardless.

Speaker 4 (01:33:09):
Yeah, wow, you know, And it just got that way, man,
And it was inevitable. I had to go solo. It
was really became inevitable then because I wasn't just gonna
stop because what was happening. But see, I couldn't do
anything when when when a record he owns you both
collectively and individually, you have to play ball. But you're

(01:33:35):
just gonna be shelved, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
So my number one question about this record is you
didn't write not one of these songs, that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:46):
One the first solo as all right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
Yeah, yeah, why did you not? You know, did you
not have anything up the pike or.

Speaker 4 (01:33:54):
Like no, No, I had songs written, but I was
told but not to do them. We got some songs
from other writers that we want you to sing, and.

Speaker 1 (01:34:09):
So does that stifle your creativity?

Speaker 4 (01:34:11):
It put a damper on my spirit and your confidence? Yeah,
because I really didn't get no explanation for it. It was
just like, let's do.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
It, wow, don't you know?

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
I know, like the average the Bards fan won't maybe
not list it, but you know, at least with me,
someone in love always are like those I don't know,
like I just love I love the ship out of
the songs too. Even though you didn't write them those
and they got much play on black radio. Still, you

(01:34:45):
know what I mean, Like it's kind of hard to
argue with it because I love those songs.

Speaker 4 (01:34:50):
But still, you know, those are the exceptions of what
I of my list of likes, and don't like Love
Always Someone and even Who's on Down and our Rhythm
other Night. And I don't believe that you always have
to write a song. You know you can, you can
explore other writers. But this was the case where you know, no,
don't write, let somebody else do it. That was That's

(01:35:11):
that's a different approach there. But Love Always the great
Burke Backer At and Curl Beer Sacre. Actually, man, no,
tell me if you can hear this, because Bert told
me that he pattern that song after all this love.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):
Really so Burn and Carols specifically they wrote pattern love Always.

Speaker 5 (01:35:33):
After that's some ship.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
I'm sorry I can't hear it.

Speaker 6 (01:35:36):
I understand, but they patterned off of his song that
he wrote, but he wasn't allowed.

Speaker 1 (01:35:41):
To butt him write the irony Burn.

Speaker 5 (01:35:45):
Them not the bird. I'm burd I'm talking about the lab.

Speaker 6 (01:35:48):
Town, talking about Motown, Yeah, okay, from back and rights
ship and I'm not I'm not saying I'm about no Burke.

Speaker 4 (01:35:53):
We see. I don't know whose idea it was, but
I don't know. I can't point finger at anybody. I
just it is what it is. But it was an honor.
These are some of the great things that happened that
make up for some of the not so great things
happen to have Burt Bacaret sitting in front of me
telling me something like that, I mean, you know, I'm

(01:36:14):
a Berrett. I mean, I love all this healthy bars,
I love all this love. And I wrote a song
Kurl and I and we patterned it after all this love,
and it's called Love Always. And I was like, really
again one of those times I didn't get it, but

(01:36:35):
I got it. I was with hear can you hear that?
Because I've been listening. I'm like, well, I mean, I
don't see the pattern though I don't see.

Speaker 1 (01:36:44):
There's a texture. There's texture. That's the first year that
d X seven came out.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
So even though you use the real no, you use
the real friend of the roads, but it's it leads.

Speaker 1 (01:36:56):
It leads with the with the well processed road sounding thing.

Speaker 5 (01:37:03):
But you know, era right a mirror like it's not
like that that lead ballad from the movie Tap.

Speaker 4 (01:37:07):
But yeah, I love with that song on the first time, Yes,
Honey and jameson Bright.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
Wait did you did?

Speaker 2 (01:37:17):
Jake Graydon and Peter will produce that first record entirely.

Speaker 4 (01:37:22):
The first album solo album. What el most people Wait
a minute, Peter, Who's Johnny was on the Rhythm of
the Night?

Speaker 2 (01:37:31):
Now, who's Doohnny? Who's Johnny was on your your first
solo record?

Speaker 1 (01:37:35):
It was right?

Speaker 2 (01:37:37):
No, but working with Jay Graydon, who's like, who's the
A and R at Motown? That decides like, Okay, this
is going to be your producer, And did you at
least get.

Speaker 1 (01:37:46):
A I don't like the song, I don't like this song.
What else you got? What else you got? That sort
of thing, like.

Speaker 4 (01:37:52):
I don't know who. That's the thing about it. When
we talked about the conflict of interests right between Tony Jones,
Susany Patz and Motown.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
Okay, that whole I don't know who?

Speaker 2 (01:38:06):
It was just to let our listeners know, Jake Graydon
like wrote everything. Yeah, like just like George Benson that
that mid eighties George Benson A right, the Breakaway record
and all that stuff exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:38:23):
Yeah, like he was involved in all that. David Foster.

Speaker 4 (01:38:27):
He also wrote After the Love Is Gone for Earth
Wind and Fire.

Speaker 1 (01:38:30):
Yeah, David Foster. David.

Speaker 4 (01:38:33):
But Jake Grayden, I do like him though. He's a
good producer. Did you know Jay Graydon? Uh? He produced
the song on me and the song that Prince wrote
that I did with Kenny Rodgers.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
You're My Love. Yeah, wait a minute, time out. What's
the connection there?

Speaker 4 (01:38:50):
Okay, Prince wrote the song for Kenny Rodgers right and
wanted me to sing the ad lives around it and
Jay Grayden said, well, he's not gonna do it, and
that's you that you sing Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
I said, okay, so you're singing on that.

Speaker 4 (01:39:12):
Yeah, I'm singing around him.

Speaker 1 (01:39:13):
I didn't know that, you know, I'm not. I've heard
Prince's demo of it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:17):
I've not heard the actual It's beautiful final Kenny Rodgers one.

Speaker 1 (01:39:21):
I got to look that up.

Speaker 4 (01:39:22):
Yeah. I come in halfway through the song and I'm
singing around him and Jay Graydon And he did a
good job with that one. He did. He did a
good job. He's a great producer. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
Okay, question, since you mentioned real love is real love?
Directed had someone specifically and because you gave in that song.

Speaker 1 (01:39:46):
There's two obvious references.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
There's a there's kind of a Janet reference, and what
I assume is a Jodie Watley reference.

Speaker 4 (01:39:56):
Was that?

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
Was it directed to someone specifically? Wait? Did I hit that?
I hit a nerve? You wrote the lyrics, you wrote
the song.

Speaker 4 (01:40:06):
Look at it? Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:40:09):
You can always say I can't answer that question too,
like you're not obligated to answer.

Speaker 4 (01:40:14):
Depends on which part. I don't mind answering this.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Wait, did I hit on something?

Speaker 2 (01:40:20):
Because I don't feel like real I never once felt
that Real Love was just a random song based on
those lyrics. I was like, wait a minute, that's a
reference to Da Da Da Da. That's a reference to
data da. This song is about someone? Am I right?

Speaker 4 (01:40:35):
Yeah? Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
You turned this into a new show. It's like quest
Left song Detective.

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
Right now, people, I just did the radio raheem fist
pump in the air after I won.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
The radio battle. You're like a friend.

Speaker 2 (01:40:54):
If you cannot if you cannot name the person, what
what can you tell us about that song?

Speaker 4 (01:41:03):
It was? Uh? They it was puppy love at first,
and uh.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
Am I the first person to ask this question.

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
Yes, yes, it's so obvious, though, like, how come no
one has ever bothered to ask you this question?

Speaker 4 (01:41:23):
But it's not my relationship, just about somebody else.

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Never mind your brother. Who Oh okay, I I thought
you were being intercessory. I thought you're being a kind.

Speaker 1 (01:41:38):
Of for you.

Speaker 4 (01:41:39):
I'm just no, I'm just making it now so obvious.
That's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:41:43):
I don't stop talking.

Speaker 4 (01:41:44):
No, no, no, no, not like that, not like that.
I'm just I'm making it more mysterious. I don't want
to kill the mistiak of it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
It's like talking to a mirror.

Speaker 3 (01:41:54):
This was like, okay, very securitous.

Speaker 4 (01:42:00):
I mean, you know we we haven't really said it yet.
So let them figure it out. Okay, you think they will? Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:42:08):
Man, I wish I knew now. I feel like fante
no I finkure, I know what it is said?

Speaker 4 (01:42:15):
Who do you think you said? I'll admit they.

Speaker 1 (01:42:18):
Find Take ahead, Janet and James, Jenny, you and your brother. Okay,
there it is?

Speaker 4 (01:42:25):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
All right? So so album, so so, the Gemini album.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
Nice sege, thank you, so.

Speaker 3 (01:42:40):
The Jymedi album, you everything you're writing again? Now, how
did you get the rains back? I would say, how
did you how did you get the rains back? How
did you get controlled back again? In terms of writing
your own material, Well.

Speaker 4 (01:42:53):
Let me see, in terms of putting it on.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
The album, you mean right right right releasing.

Speaker 4 (01:43:00):
Because uh I don't know. Actually, well, you know what Motown.
A new staff came into Motown. Actually a new staff
did oh under the direction of Devorah Sandrich. She was
head of the ANR department at that time, and the
ANI department took over all of the recording sessions. So

(01:43:20):
she she came in. She as a fan, so she
was like, pro al right, and uh so I was back.
The kid was back, baby, it was. And you know
you remember that the era that that's when New jack
Swing was kicking in real high.

Speaker 1 (01:43:38):
Yeah, you had your two dancers.

Speaker 4 (01:43:41):
Yeah he's kicking.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
Here we go again. Here we got you was kicking it.
Bring it back.

Speaker 2 (01:43:47):
Let's Judy from Time Life, because you're from life. The
duty from Time Life my prerogative microphone.

Speaker 1 (01:43:55):
Noh, I was you know, what's the last time you
jumped up from the drug and started dancing. I think
I'm not making it fun. He was taking it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:08):
I wasn't Bobby Brown or Michael Jackson. But you know,
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
Look, what did you do?

Speaker 4 (01:44:14):
Wait?

Speaker 1 (01:44:14):
Speaking of back? Speaking of back, we have to mention
back on the block.

Speaker 3 (01:44:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Secret Guard kicked myself.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
Yeah, I forgot about it until right now. Can you
speak of that as that that whole experience. I think
I've seen you guys only perform that song once on
the I guess the Soul Traine Awards.

Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
But what was that? What was that process like.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
Doing that, doing the song and just working with James
and and and Barry White and and Yeah, I'll.

Speaker 4 (01:44:47):
Be sure it was a trip because Quincy, he tricked me.

Speaker 1 (01:44:55):
There seems to be a theme going on your brother trick.

Speaker 4 (01:45:01):
Yeah, you're seriously tricky because I guess you know, just
call me a trick.

Speaker 2 (01:45:06):
Okay, are you trying to tell us that you thought
this song was all to yourself?

Speaker 4 (01:45:12):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
Oh, but I did.

Speaker 4 (01:45:14):
I did think that I was doing a warm up
in the mic. I did.

Speaker 1 (01:45:22):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:45:24):
No, guys, you we got I don't know. No, but wait,
this this is not the first time we heard the story. Besides,
besides performing late at night, Quincy is world famous for
just like even your warm ups are being recorded.

Speaker 1 (01:45:41):
And okay, is that what?

Speaker 5 (01:45:43):
Alb be sure? Said too.

Speaker 1 (01:45:45):
So two other people said this about Quincy as well.
Oh it was. It was great feeling gangs.

Speaker 3 (01:45:49):
He said on the Yes on the one hundred Ways solo,
he was sleeping in the studio and Quincy was like, hey,
playing come back later, and they just woke him up
and he played that line. And that's that's what made
it on the record.

Speaker 2 (01:46:01):
Well, you know what, but Quincy said, Quincy himself said
that you get a better honest performance when the person
doesn't know that they're.

Speaker 4 (01:46:07):
Being Yeah, yeah, but you know. And then again, I'm
guilty of being the professions too much. So we probably
would have been there all day. I remember we were
up for two days though. Before we went in to the
studio writing a song. We were at Rob Tipperson's house
and I was nervous because he had that all this
rock Rollers. They were just walking around. We're trying to

(01:46:31):
write a secret guard to rock Rollers. I'm looking an
old boy?

Speaker 7 (01:46:34):
Is that nice?

Speaker 4 (01:46:39):
But and then uh, Me and side Garrett and Quincy
we just up, I mean literally two days. We would eat,
take a quick nap, and get right back to right
because he had a deadline he was trying to beat.
Then we went straight to the studio to sing it.
I was like, you're kidding me, right, Quincy, We're going
straight to the studio to sing. Well, you're playing right?

Speaker 1 (01:47:02):
Paying What was he?

Speaker 3 (01:47:04):
What was he working with Quincy and even Rod? What
were they more sticklers of in terms of songwriting? Were
they really like big on like melody or.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
Was it lyrics?

Speaker 3 (01:47:15):
Like in terms of words, which would be what would
they be kind of be more particular about?

Speaker 4 (01:47:20):
No? Everything really everything, every part was equally important because, uh,
the wrong word within a verse could throw the vibe off,
and then when it came to singing, the wrong expression
of it, of that word while you're sing could mask

(01:47:42):
the whole verse up, you know. And it was the
same with Quincy. Was like that with musicians too. You
have to have a certain personality about your playing. You
had to be it had to be a personality when
you play, you know what I mean. You had to
sing on the bass, you had to sing on the drums.
It was just everything was just musical and movement with him.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
Did you uh did at the time?

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
Did you know from the gate that you were writing
a song for three other singers in addition to yourself?
Did you know that you were writing specifically for Al
and for James and for Barry.

Speaker 4 (01:48:21):
White, not not for l because it was supposed to
be for Michael. Michael was supposed to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:27):
And uh word, yes.

Speaker 7 (01:48:32):
That I did not know.

Speaker 4 (01:48:35):
It was going to be me, Michael, James, and Barry White.
And wow, I don't know what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
I can't remember, but wow, set up, set up.

Speaker 1 (01:48:54):
I could imagine what happened. We're not on a video.

Speaker 6 (01:49:02):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:49:03):
Now, I just had the process process that because if.

Speaker 3 (01:49:07):
You listen to Al's verse, I mean listen to als verse,
you know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:49:13):
You know what.

Speaker 7 (01:49:16):
He said he was.

Speaker 10 (01:49:17):
He said he was a stylist.

Speaker 4 (01:49:18):
All right, you know is a great songwriter.

Speaker 10 (01:49:22):
Ain't she talk about it? She's really had her on
the show too.

Speaker 4 (01:49:26):
Yeah, yeah, she's she's boss.

Speaker 1 (01:49:30):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:49:30):
So was the Soul Train Awards the only time that
you guys performed that together as a force for some
well sorry as alb sure, James, Ingram, l DeBarge, and
Barry White.

Speaker 1 (01:49:45):
Yes, the four of you, like the four horsemen. That
even makes it worse.

Speaker 4 (01:49:55):
No, no, it's okay. Yeah, that was the first time. Uh,
it was the only time we did the together. Yeah, yeah, okay,
never mind.

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
That was a moment. That was definitely a moment.

Speaker 4 (01:50:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:50:07):
So with uh with through the storm, in the storm
and in the storm, forgive me in the storm. Yeah,
well one you you left Motown and moved to Warner,
But what what finally made you decide to go with
Maurice White as a production partner on this record?

Speaker 4 (01:50:28):
Lack of confidence and where and where I was trying
that in the storm is I wouldn't say it's all
over the place, but it's many fastest of my influences. Okay, Honestly,
my brother Bobby and Chico had just got locked up
and those were.

Speaker 1 (01:50:47):
My uh your yeah, yeah, okay, and.

Speaker 4 (01:50:52):
To this day Chico when I was still like that.
But I was lost, man, I was lost, and uh
it was like they took him away from me, and uh,
not to mention what they were going through being locked up,
but you know, I don't want to sound selfish, but
I really needed them and uh just just for me.

(01:51:13):
You know, I know how to write, I can write well,
but I just needed them for me. And I was
hurting because they were hurting because what was happening to him.
So it did something to me, quest it did something
to me and and I'm the type of person I'll
never let die. I'm never going to give up, right,
It's just it's not in me, so my determination to

(01:51:36):
keep going. I ran into Maurice White and the album
was almost it was already recorded, but it wasn't finished.
He heard it and we both thought about it at
the same time. It's like I could tell he was
thinking of the same thing, Maurice, you got to finish this
with me. Man. He said, all right, little bro, I'll

(01:51:57):
do that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:58):
Wow, that's what's up.

Speaker 4 (01:52:00):
So we talked to Warner Brothers about it and we
started the budget all over again. I was shocked at
it was a whole different EPI. He started to budget
all over again and we did it. Man and Maurice.

Speaker 1 (01:52:16):
Uh was Benny Medina? Was this the Benny Medina era
of ye?

Speaker 4 (01:52:23):
Yeah? And Benny was? That was my man? Thank you, Benny. Man.
It was great working with Maurice White. Man. I can't
even get into first of all, you know, I admired
him so much and uh sit next to him. You know,
he really he really did have a know. I would
say he really did have a glow. He always had
this light his light face. Man, I mean every day

(01:52:45):
he was like he was just his glow was on
him talking about wisdom. He was full of wisdom. Man,
soft spoken, and he knew what he was doing.

Speaker 3 (01:52:53):
Man, man, you have you probably I don't know if
you remember this, but you have inadvertently given me one
of the greatest pieces of game about the music business
that I don't even you probably don't remember saying this.
But a good, real good friend of mine, my brother,
my collaborator, Eric Roberson.

Speaker 1 (01:53:13):
He was signed to Warner Brothers at the time.

Speaker 3 (01:53:16):
I guess it was around the time that you were
promoting in the Storm and he went out with you
on a promo tour. This is I mean, god, man,
this has got to be like ninety one, ninety two.

Speaker 1 (01:53:26):
I mean, this is, you know, a forever ago.

Speaker 3 (01:53:29):
But he said that he would just that time working
with you and touring with you because he was signed
to Warner But I think he just had like a
single out, so it wasn't like he was, you know,
up on.

Speaker 1 (01:53:39):
The totem pole or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:53:40):
But you know, he was just out touring with you
and he said, man, he picked up so much from
you while y'all were out And he said about that album,
which is interesting to hear you talk about it now.
He said that he told you, like, yeah, well, you know,
I like the album. It's a good album. And he
said that your reply to him was, well, I mean, yeah,
it's it's not just a good album, it's a money album.

(01:54:03):
And we make money albums so that we can get
to make good albums.

Speaker 1 (01:54:07):
I was like, God, damn, this shit real.

Speaker 3 (01:54:09):
You know me, so to hear you describe it that way,
and like he told me his story and again I
have I don't know if you remember this at all,
but he was telling me about how y'all were doing
the show and it was something with I guess in
sound check and the engineer wasn't getting the sound right
or whatever, and you know most artists would like be

(01:54:30):
you know, be hollering and just be going off and shit.
And he said, you know, y'all were sitting there, and
he said, you just kind of talked to the guy
and just went over and just you know, fixed the
sound and like open it up.

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
And he was amazed that you knew how to work
the board like that. He was like, Yo, they don't
really knows this shit.

Speaker 3 (01:54:46):
And so he said afterwards, man, you came over to
the you came over from the board, and y'all were
sitting down and eating dinner, and and he said, he
asked you, like yo, well, like you know, how did
you learn how to do this?

Speaker 1 (01:54:57):
And he said, you told him.

Speaker 3 (01:54:57):
Listen, man, he said, I could go, I could wild
out and be all crazy. He said, but if I
did that, I wouldn't be able to sit here and
have this meal and have this fellowship with you here,
if I was trying to do somebody else's job, you
know what I mean. And you know, man, it was
just and I mean, this is Eric he told me
these stories. I mean, this has got ten eleven years ago.
I mean, this is you know, a while back, and

(01:55:19):
it was even before then. But he just I just
always it made me even more of a fan of you,
of just you just really being a class act in
that way and just always kind of seeing the bigger picture.
And that was Those are two pieces of a game
that I've carried with me, you know, throughout my career.

Speaker 1 (01:55:34):
And I just want to thank you for that. Man.

Speaker 4 (01:55:36):
Man, that's that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:55:38):
Man.

Speaker 4 (01:55:38):
I really I really thank you for telling me that,
because it's good to know that I put some good
things out there like that, you know, and you just
reminded me of some good values and things. You know,
Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (01:55:50):
Thank you always.

Speaker 2 (01:55:54):
I do want to know, like what have you looking
looking back at at your four decades and this career,
what have you learned? And like do you have any regrets?
Because oftentimes, and you know, I know that you've you've
been open and transparent about succumbing to to narcotics and

(01:56:18):
whatnot in your career.

Speaker 1 (01:56:20):
And but the thing is that you know, I also.

Speaker 2 (01:56:24):
Didn't want to paint this as a I don't ever
think of your story whatever, as a tragedy story whatever.
And I know oftentimes when you're doing press or whatever
and news things and like that's the first thing they
bring they bring up or whatever. But just in your
four decade journey, what what?

Speaker 1 (01:56:45):
What? What?

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
What can you say that you've learned that you still
keep with you today? And are there any regrets in
in in your journey and everything that you've went through.

Speaker 4 (01:56:55):
What I've learned is that's very important. It has played
a very role in my life. Was this business, this
this this show business that we're in. There's life first,
there's there's really fans are fans of are borrowed this

(01:57:18):
fa quest love fans, Algiebargs fans, Michael Jackson fans. But
fans are borrowed from one city to another, from one
show to another.

Speaker 5 (01:57:32):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:57:32):
I've seen a lot of entertainers, Yeah, a lot of entertainers.
I've seen a lot of entertainers. Sure, you have to
they they tripped. They don't know how to handle the thing.
They trip. Ah, you could tell they got in it
for the wrong reason, you know, right, Uh it it

(01:57:57):
It breeds a lot of jealousy. That's a breeding ground
for jealousy right there, and as they call it, hatred
and hating.

Speaker 1 (01:58:04):
M But.

Speaker 4 (01:58:06):
Fans are broad but before they're fans of people and
every everybody. Everybody needs love, man, everybody needs love. I
don't know it. It's hard for me to look at
people as fans and groupies because I see I see people,
I see souls and Uh, what I've learned is that

(01:58:28):
never never, never get there. I'm trying to explain this, right,
we never always always always be on your way. Never
arrive where you think this is it. I've arrived, I've
made it. Yeah, never never do that. Always be on
your way even when you reach what you intended to
either go as you intended to reach, still still be

(01:58:50):
trying to get there. You know, open, you keep your
mind open, you know. I think that's a lot of
the reason why, well, I'm here right now today, I'm
even sitting with you, you know, m because like you said,
you mentioned my age already in this show, But in

(01:59:12):
all these years, I'm here and uh, and I think
each generation can be accepted and they can accept you.
It could be if you just look at people as people,
not not fans and groupies. You know what I'm saying.
I'm saying because I've heard this a lot from other entertainers. Man, groupie,
this groupy that, Well, they're people, man, you know, andybody,

(01:59:34):
they're supporting you.

Speaker 1 (01:59:36):
And without those people, you wouldn't be who you are.

Speaker 7 (01:59:38):
I call them bill payers to right.

Speaker 4 (01:59:42):
But there's a need. There's a need, especially now with
with you know, so called pandemic going on. There's a need.
People have needs, man. And when you're in a position
where you can reach a lot of people, what you're
gonna do, how are you gonna treat that? You know
what you what are you gonna do with that?

Speaker 5 (01:59:59):
You know?

Speaker 3 (02:00:00):
How has the pandemic, like, you know, being kind of
being at home and not being able to tour and
go out. Uh, how has that affected you and what
is that giving you time to kind of reflect going
over the past year or so.

Speaker 4 (02:00:12):
Well, But it's good.

Speaker 1 (02:00:14):
It's to save money, listen, sh real, it's like a
whole another down income.

Speaker 4 (02:00:21):
It don't hurt. Don't hurt to have something put up.

Speaker 7 (02:00:25):
Away from Amazon, mamason.

Speaker 4 (02:00:30):
But you know, thank god, I haven't gotten you know,
the virus, but I know some people that have. But
you know, I wear my mask and I stay away
from people, you know six feet.

Speaker 10 (02:00:46):
But a large family have like a bi weekly zoom
Like how do y'all stay connected?

Speaker 1 (02:00:51):
Which we always want to say with kids now and
everything grandkids, Like yeah, we all.

Speaker 4 (02:00:58):
We have our own places. You know, my children they
they only man, they only worse than I am.

Speaker 6 (02:01:03):
Dad.

Speaker 4 (02:01:03):
If you don't come over without your.

Speaker 1 (02:01:05):
Mad I just a different question. She go the bars
Chico's album A long time.

Speaker 3 (02:01:12):
No, how involved I totally forgot how involved in where
you in the production of the album.

Speaker 4 (02:01:21):
That's one album I'm most proud.

Speaker 1 (02:01:22):
Of very I was about to say you were there.

Speaker 4 (02:01:26):
She came and got me. That was during my time
of my narcotic situation. And uh, she came and got
me and he said, I need you to produce this
album with me. I'm scignis Kadar. That's where I'm gonna

(02:01:46):
come up with albu. So it woke me up, man,
because you know she was my man. It woke me up,
and it gave me something too to do to live for,
you know, to a reason to want to come up
out of the rut that I was in. Right and
he got me back in the studio. I started seeing
the microphones again, started getting that feeling again, and the keyboards,

(02:02:10):
and the guy was limited with him. He said, whatever
you want, man. We had so many keyboards We've rented
in every keyboards everywhere man our board gear, and you
know we just consumed that budget.

Speaker 5 (02:02:22):
Man.

Speaker 10 (02:02:23):
But yes, loves still Good?

Speaker 7 (02:02:26):
Do we do we go love still Good?

Speaker 1 (02:02:28):
Igging me well, cheek or I.

Speaker 9 (02:02:34):
Can I ask the history of There was always a
piano and we always keep a tape running all the time,
constant studio, no matter what it's on record, something is
so Chico got the studio late this day and I
was already there playing these chords.

Speaker 4 (02:02:53):
To egging me. And then when Chica walked in. Uh,
I didn't know it, but I heard him in the
back of me singing and the microphone was right there
in the control room. That was the gist of the
lead vocal right there from the control If you notice,
you hear me in the background saying yeah and all
that stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:03:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:03:10):
They tried to compress it out, but it's still there.
But he wrote that song just standing over my shoulder
singing while I was playing on scores. It just it
just flowed, man, from the beginning to the end, just
like that. And then love Still Good. That was very
very personal with him.

Speaker 7 (02:03:30):
About the brother line. I still every time I hear it,
I tear up.

Speaker 4 (02:03:33):
Yeah. I didn't even come to the studio that day
when he did that. He said, he said, he I
want to be in the studio by myself today. I
got something something I'm going through.

Speaker 1 (02:03:42):
It was a heavy Marvel influence on that one too,
like real kind of trouble man, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:03:47):
But man, that was a great album.

Speaker 8 (02:03:49):
Man.

Speaker 4 (02:03:49):
That's yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:03:51):
When you when you talk about you and your brother,
because you know both of y'all have had, you know,
your struggles like with addiction, and stuff. Uh, how does
it work in terms of you know, at the time,
you know, he came and kind of pulled you out,
and then is it ever a time like say, if
he's down, you know, if if if he's if he's
not sober and you are sober, Like, how does that work?

Speaker 4 (02:04:12):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (02:04:12):
In terms of you and your brother, he.

Speaker 4 (02:04:15):
Knows he can come to me anytime. My brothers in
terms of the drug situation, the sobriety thing, I'm not
really around them that much. I'm kind of doing my
own thing, you know. But you know, I love them all,

(02:04:36):
I really do. I love them all and I'm there
for him and you know that. But I'm not really
I'm not really into that where they where they at?

Speaker 1 (02:04:46):
And is that more of a protection thing for you
kind of like a self preservation thing.

Speaker 4 (02:04:51):
It's more people growing apart. It's more people growing apart
and their lifestyle and my lifestyle is you know, I'm
still pursuing my real They they are they cool?

Speaker 2 (02:05:03):
Right In the industry, who do you count as your
your your friends are your inner circle as far as
the industry is concerned, Like, who who have you been
able to lean on?

Speaker 6 (02:05:16):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:05:17):
If it's not your family, like as far as like
industry people that are that are you're tight knit with?

Speaker 4 (02:05:25):
Nobody comes to mind right now. And I'm just kidding.
Darius McQuary is real good for nobody, real tight uh
and uh And I don't have a whole lot of
celebrity friends that that I hang out with because you know,

(02:05:46):
we be tripping. I like keeping it on and keeping
it real and uh, you know when I go home,
I look in the mirror and I see a real person,
and you know, you feel me right, I feel you,
And it's hard for me to be wrong people that
look in the mirror and still see somebody else celebrity.
Yeah you, but but there are some real people in

(02:06:09):
this in this game too that they keep it real.

Speaker 5 (02:06:11):
You know.

Speaker 4 (02:06:11):
You know what I'm saying, questions, you know, and uh,
quest that's one of the guests that I hang out with.

Speaker 1 (02:06:18):
Are you in Quick? Do y'all still y'all still really
deal with each other?

Speaker 4 (02:06:22):
Quickly school quick?

Speaker 6 (02:06:23):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:06:25):
He's been doing some touring and uh, especially with this pandemic. Man,
I ain't hardly seeing nobody. Yeah, me and Quick are
cool man.

Speaker 2 (02:06:35):
Okay, Yeah, So I guess my last question is what
is your next statement or when will your Well, first
of all, congrats on we didn't really get to stay
that much or talk at all about second Chance. But
even with your you know, the nominations and whatnot and.

Speaker 1 (02:06:55):
And making a fine record. Was it was a great record. Uh,
what are your playing? As far as doing any more
music material.

Speaker 4 (02:07:06):
I'm going to you know what, i'ma have to put
something out soon because I'm in the studio all the time.
I'm always recording. I'm not recording an album, you know
what I'm saying. I'm just recording songs.

Speaker 5 (02:07:15):
Don't matter.

Speaker 4 (02:07:17):
I know I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:07:18):
Right, you could just put out one jam well too. Yeah, right,
it's whatever now it's perfectionist.

Speaker 4 (02:07:24):
Thing to me is hold me back. I gotta let
I gotta loosen up.

Speaker 7 (02:07:27):
It's hard to reprogram.

Speaker 4 (02:07:29):
I got songs, man, I mean recent songs, and uh
they're bad too. They're bad too. They're bad man, you're
like them.

Speaker 1 (02:07:40):
Let's let's go yo.

Speaker 4 (02:07:41):
Ell.

Speaker 7 (02:07:41):
It's never a time when we're not waiting on songs
from you, like never.

Speaker 4 (02:07:46):
Okay, exactly here comes, I'm coming with it. I'm gonna
come with it. Get over then I'm gonna do Uh,
I'm I'm gonna do some touring as soon as the
world back up.

Speaker 2 (02:07:55):
Yeah, I was gonna say, how were you pleasantly surprised
by the kind of feedback that you got over that
that clip of.

Speaker 4 (02:08:04):
I was? I was? It was a last minute decision
for me. I said, Okay, I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (02:08:11):
And where was that done? It was in a record shop?
Where was it? Was it in California or ye?

Speaker 4 (02:08:16):
And he's done the record shop, record shop, slash studio,
slash entrepreneur's right here, it's placed.

Speaker 1 (02:08:27):
I'm in right now, Okay, okay, curious. Yeah, I loved
Yeah that clip?

Speaker 5 (02:08:33):
Was that? Was that?

Speaker 1 (02:08:35):
That really real rap? Like no bullshit? That concert? That
just you know, that imprompted things you did? I was
versus it's the Shane Oh really wow, man, you.

Speaker 7 (02:08:47):
Did do versus?

Speaker 4 (02:08:51):
How about I did verses with Jett?

Speaker 7 (02:08:54):
Stop playing.

Speaker 4 (02:08:58):
Jack? I mean, the catalog is is different and it
hurts much, but hey, how many? I mean it'd be interesting.

Speaker 7 (02:09:09):
It will be interesting now, But y'all I have to
tell some stories already.

Speaker 1 (02:09:12):
Yeah, we gotta have some stories.

Speaker 4 (02:09:14):
You can't be like, well, I mean, I'm just trying
to think of something interesting.

Speaker 1 (02:09:19):
You know, right, but yeah, but even more than versus,
I think.

Speaker 2 (02:09:24):
Just you at offend the roads, just singing man like
and then the way that you know, especially with you know,
Prince's very last concerts were in that way, was just
him and the piano. It was something really intimate about that.
And I feel like it's something that's like super needed
right now. So I hope that when this world opens up,

(02:09:46):
you know, eldbares, you can that's interesting do that.

Speaker 1 (02:09:52):
No background singers off for real to pull off, you
gotta have real chops to do. You gotta be able
to play.

Speaker 4 (02:10:00):
Honestly, I didn't know anybody would be interested in that, dude.

Speaker 2 (02:10:04):
Yeah, and we love this with you one when you
have a catalog and you could do cover songs and
you could do your brothers, like, yeah, I beg of you.

Speaker 1 (02:10:15):
Be a long show. I beg of you.

Speaker 2 (02:10:17):
Whoever talks you into the comeback thing and all right,
let's audition band members and no, I need my background singers. No,
I'm telling you there's something so magician you alone.

Speaker 1 (02:10:29):
Think about how low that overhead is. Bro think about.

Speaker 4 (02:10:33):
Yes, I was on a on a on a computer
or something.

Speaker 1 (02:10:36):
No, we singing. We will be singing.

Speaker 5 (02:10:43):
For free.

Speaker 1 (02:10:43):
I was singing all the harmony. You did all this, man,
I was singing all the harmonies. Bro what not only
not only will the audience sing it? They'll pay this,
like they'll pay trust me, you get to keep all
the money trust.

Speaker 5 (02:10:56):
Me on this.

Speaker 1 (02:10:58):
But yeah, we're all trust me sing along with elder bars.
That's man. Come on, this is great.

Speaker 4 (02:11:06):
My assister able, she always tells me that all the time,
and and other people tell me that too.

Speaker 5 (02:11:10):
But you're just getting here, Like, how long have you
been on social media?

Speaker 4 (02:11:13):
Now?

Speaker 7 (02:11:14):
You said how long?

Speaker 4 (02:11:14):
Yeah? Oh about three four months?

Speaker 10 (02:11:18):
Oh, child, that's why he feeled his way.

Speaker 7 (02:11:19):
He got to get his gotta get his legs.

Speaker 4 (02:11:21):
He don't know how much he loved me off here
if he have the account.

Speaker 1 (02:11:24):
I just it was just there, right, yeah, I yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:11:28):
I beg of you when when this world opens up,
just you by yourself at a piano, just do a
limited run.

Speaker 1 (02:11:34):
See how the trust me? Okay, that's what the world
needs right now.

Speaker 2 (02:11:39):
Look, we can keep you here for twelve hours, man,
but you know we've had you for the longest and
you're in the studio right now, so we'll let you
create your magic. But I thank you from the bottom
of my heart for even real considering this when you
when you d md me, I thought I still even
though I knew it was you, I still thought it
was fake. Like I had to ask a couple of

(02:12:00):
people like, wait, it's just a real elder barge, this
can't be.

Speaker 1 (02:12:06):
Thank you, man, Thank you for everything. You're truly like
one of my favorite signats.

Speaker 8 (02:12:09):
Man, I thank you on behalf of me and my
father and all the sundays we spent listening to all
this love like you have no ideas the soundtrack of
this whole life, Like just thank you and everything afterwards.

Speaker 7 (02:12:21):
But thank you told me to tell you that.

Speaker 1 (02:12:26):
Yeah, man, just your story.

Speaker 3 (02:12:27):
Man, it's just you know the way that you just
you know, keep persevering, and you know you just keep
surfacing and keep coming back and still sounding great, and
you know, you know you fall down, you get up,
you keep it pushing, and you know we love you
and appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (02:12:40):
Brother. Just thank you for all that you've contributed. Man,
Thanks you real, thank you.

Speaker 10 (02:12:44):
Com one of these flowers and your face flowers.

Speaker 1 (02:12:47):
More flowers, Bill all flowers, greenhouse, Let's do it. I
bought the Rhythm of the Night forty five when it
came out. Steve, if we let you out of this, I'm.

Speaker 4 (02:13:01):
Sorry he's been talking the whole time. He talks too much.

Speaker 1 (02:13:06):
I was on mute. Yeah, shut up, Steve.

Speaker 2 (02:13:10):
All right on behalf of the team Supremelo Broke Bill
and Sugar Steve. I'm quest Love. Thank you very much,
El DeBarge. We're definitely gonna work together to bro.

Speaker 1 (02:13:25):
Hey, I can't insist. Thank you very much. I appreciate
it all right. If this is another classic episode of
Quest Love Supreme, yall. We'll see in the.

Speaker 5 (02:13:35):
Next round another one.

Speaker 4 (02:13:39):
Hey, this is Sugar Steve.

Speaker 1 (02:13:40):
Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at
q l S and let us know what you think
you should be next to sit down with us.

Speaker 4 (02:13:49):
Don't forget to subscribe. You are a podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:13:58):
Must Love Supreme is a reduction of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.