Eric Roberson Pt. 2

Part two of the Questlove Supreme solo session between Phonte and his friend and collaborator Eric Roberson. The Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter discusses balancing creativity with family and the making of one of his newest songs, "Lessons."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
What's Up? What's Up? What's up? Y'all? This is Quest Love.
Welcome to another Course Love Supreme. As you know, we're
doing these special episodes of which each teams remember interviews
of person they're passionate about. Sugar Steve sort of kicked
it off with a two part, incredible two part conversation
with one of his musical heroes, Elvis Costello, that we

(00:23):
did electrically studios, and of Corresponte began his special solo
session with singer songwriter Eric Roeperson. And these men are friends. Uh,
they made an album together and it's an excellent look
into the lives of two artists. And if you ever
heard part one, please check it out because this is
part two from Fonte and Eric Tipilari, only on Quest

(00:44):
Love Supreme. All right, I'll enjoy it. What was the
record for you that as an independent artist, you know,
because you have you have your moments, so you have
some records that like will go all all the way
off and then you have something to just be like,
all right, this did cool. What was the record for

(01:05):
you that like kind of was the one where you
was like Okay, I think I got it because I
can tell you what it was for me as a fan,
but I don't know what it was like for you
on the business side. Um, for me, it was Left.
And I ain't even saying that just because I was
on it, but like Left, I mean I got uh
Vought one point five. That was the first record I

(01:25):
have a bought of yours. I actually got that one
before I got Esoteric. I was in UM, I was
in Chicago. We was on a Little Brother um he
was on a Little Brother tour stop and we went
to it was that Virgin mega store that used to
be uh in Chicago, like that that big Virgin mixed store,
and I just saw you. I just saw your joint,

(01:47):
Eric Roberson, and I knew you from the Jazzy Jeff
album and so I was like, I was like, oh,
he gotta am was like, oh, I caught this and
I bought that and I played you know the first
record you know is you know it's she couldn't hear
me over the music, and I was just like, oh
my god, like I ran that whole record. That record
got me through that tour, you know what I'm saying.

(02:08):
And so that was the first one. And then when
I saw that one and I saw it was produced
by red Head Keenpin, I was like, what, like, how
did that about months one of the most talented producers
visionaries I've ever even been in the room with right
And I'm honored that that we that even allowed me

(02:30):
to do that song with him. But I would tell
you couldn't hear me all the music was probably the
song that probably like changed everything, and then from there
they were to grow Right so here everyone's like Eric,
that's Eric was in the songwriter and truth be told.
Even before that, like when I was doing songs of
esoteric and off of like when I was doing the

(02:53):
Vault album, a lot of the times played when I
played the songs, when people heard the songs, they were
like can we buy them? So so that was so
the left the Vault was a heavy draw the line
of the saying I'm not selling these songs. Like it
was like you know and um and you'll be told off.
So it's Vault Volume one point five. Why is it that?
Because Volume one had hold On which eventually went to

(03:16):
dwell a. Yo, yeah, I want to ask you to yeah,
like so that because I love that song, Dwayne Bi,
what's the what's the deal with him? Like, how did
you guys know the college gather man we met. I
was walking into the Drew Hall at Howard University freshman
here with a keyboard under my arm. He was like, Yo,
you do music, and I was like, yeah, I do too,

(03:38):
And he came to my room and I think he
was my room freshman. Like it was just like I
had this little small room by the size of this chair.
I'm sitting there, and it's like everybody saw me walk
into that that dorm room with a keyboard and like
some little miniscule equipment and it was like what's on
and popping in this room? Like my room was never empty.

(03:59):
People would just work on music. And guess what, it's
an honor that there's still a lot of on my
new album that we just put out, and you know,
with the main modle and you know, so many, so
many brothers, Tracy Leaves, so many cats I met when
I got there and just started bonding with that. We
still do do music, you know, to this day. Um,

(04:20):
but yeah, the that was that was just right right
with homies. But the first album eventually had to be
changed because yeah, I was heavy in the songwriter Carl
Thomas I wrote reround was on wasn't called So I
was like, okay, let's change us up one point five
and then from this point on like this, this is

(04:42):
this is it. Now I'm not selling anything, not gonna
hear no problems, no whatever, whatever. Um. I think Volume
one had one time with with Jill Scott Onto and
stuff like that, so it was like, so the boom,
but then its previous was previous cats? Was that on
the vault? Was that? No? Previous cat was? I never
I had never released it previous cats. I had just
played for I wrote it in college with Jermaine Mobley,

(05:05):
but I played it for music, just a demo of it,
and interesting enough before he ever had a record deal.
And he was like, I want that for my second album.
I was like, like, what you know, you didn't even
sign on your first album yet, Like he gets signed.
It was like, yeah, when my previous cat No, no,
that's my second album, alright, cool man, shoot your shot.

(05:26):
He puts an album out of course he comes music
so child and then and then showing up he called
me like, hey, I'm starting my second album. You still
got that previous cat song. I was like, yo, you're
different man, you new different. I was, yeah, we recorded,
but I don't know why I never put that song
because me and Jamain Prombley worked on a lot of records.

(05:47):
He's on that, he's on that Vault album. But for
some reason, uh, I think you know what real talk.
By the time I'm starting to release the records, and
I think that's the songwriter in me. Like once music
said I like the song. Even if I wanted myself
an album, I was like, this is from music Now,
I like probably never considered it for myself, which is
probably why it was not on the Vault. Now I'm

(06:07):
now it's it's funny you say that. I'm I'm the
exact same way. Like for me, if someone is speaking
for it, like I'm mentally in our campus that there's
always another song. So if someone if we write something
and they're like, yo, I want it, it's like, all right, cool,
it's yours, and we'll just said it's whenever you're ready
for it, because we can always make something else. So
the Vault one point five that was you know, you

(06:28):
say that was the one that kind of you know
that was kind of lying in the sand and then left.
For me, that was the moment when I saw because
you know, I was I mean, I was just a fan.
So when you hit me that night when you came
to Jersey we went to your carib, I was just like,
all right, I'm just kicking it one of home. He's like,
I I was not aware. I mean I knew your catalog,

(06:49):
I knew like you're writing and stuff. But you know,
I'm just like, man, I'm just kicking it this this
big bro, I'm just kicking it. But when Left came out,
and when I saw the response that like being in
love and I saw it was people hit me like yo,
you I heard you on Arrow or Robinson new album.
And I was like, oh like this dude, like oh wow,
Like he got people like really out here. You know

(07:11):
what I'm saying. Um, that was that was just that
was from my experience. That was you know, from my
vantage point. When that record came out, I just saw,
you know, just the people that were hitting me. I
mean it was. It really put a lot of eyes
on me that I did not expect at all, but
probably vice versa. I think, you know, our relationship just
in general, every time we did a song. I think
it it It definitely boosted me and if it if

(07:34):
it boosted you, that we great. You know, I think
left everything was a growing lesson. You know. Right after
that we did music fan first, and we getting that's
when we studied nominating for Grammys and stuff like that.
So we and unmust we have to note because all
our listeners, Arrow and I have the honor of losing
the same Grammy to India, right, thank you for submitting

(07:56):
your song and uh beating to the crib right right.
Uh So, so you know, it was just different. Everything
was just different levels. It was like it was constantly growing.
It was just like you know, for me and and
and I'll be honest with you, I mean I probably
kept my head down and just worked so much. I
probably didn't spend much time like acknowledging the groundwork that

(08:18):
was being laid and like how much things were moving.
You know. I just remember being a struggling artist, and
then when day not struggling one day, like you know, man, listen,
we remember. I remember us having that conversation during Tikalo
where it's just like, listen, man, I'm finally at the
point in my life where I'm making the music I
want to make, and I'm not fucking broke, yeah, because

(08:39):
like that's I mean, that's it. You know, whatever you
get on top of that is gravy, you know what
I mean. But I remember, I certainly remember those conversations
when um when you did uh it was it was
music fan first, the box album I wanted specifically asked
by that one. You did a record which is like
still like one of my top five arrow regar, it

(09:02):
might be top three, I don't know, but your record
with just imagine with King, Oh my god. I was
so mad when I heard everyone. I was like, oh
my god, please talk about Paris and Amber um Man.
I just loved them to death, and uh, you know
we've all been longtime supporters to them. Yeah, but we know.

(09:22):
I want to make sure I say it on this
platform too, because it's very important something I've been talking about,
especially with my students. You know. I teach at Berklee
College of Music in Boston, and one of things that
I learned when I got there was like, how how
many female musicians or female artists have been talked out
of their greatness out of ignorance of men? Out of

(09:46):
ignorance of just surroundings of just like the fact that
like that we should be shocked that a female could
make a dope beat, right, Like how insulted? Right you
made that beat? Like yo, you you made a beat
like that. It's almost kind of like you. It's the
ignorant statements that like he speaks so well or some
ship it's like a black person, like what do you

(10:07):
mean you know so so so like I'm really dedicated
to try to change that carrot that the situation. But
let's say, even before I learned of the ignorance, I
was always one if you dope, you dope, right and
male female. Look look at the history of my work,
whether who's been on stage and me, who are songs
with whatever? Whatever. If you dope, you dope, whether you

(10:29):
a female, male whatever. Right. I was in l A
just my my wife had got tickets with her girlfriend
to go see Oprah's last you know, her last show
or whatever you l A and they got tickets at it.
So we had just had my first son. I'm in
l A. We had at some Mexican restaurant. I'm really
there just babysitting. I got my kid and my my

(10:51):
wife and this young lady walked. Something goes, um, can
I take a picture? You know, I'm am a big
fan of your music. I'm like, no problem, yeah, or sol,
we take a picture, and then while we're taking a picture,
she says, you know, I just did an album with
when my sister and a good friend of mine and
I produced it and mixed it. And I was like,

(11:11):
I was like, oh word, okay, cool. I said, can
I buy it? I buy it from you right now?
She does not give you no, no no, no, I'm gonna
buy it from you. And she gave me something. I
gave her a twenty dollar bill and she gave me
and then I noticed it was only three songs, and
I said, dad, I just paid twenty three songs, right.
I like, it's all good, It's all up. That's the
track source prices right. But I was like cool, but
but just in just basically, I was like, I was like,

(11:33):
all r, what's your name is that? She said the
name was Paris and I was like, all right, cool
group's name king. I was like, all right, cool, this
is great, yo. Listen, my information is that is that
just just sowing into it, like yo, this scene is
no product like the other album cover whatever. We're get
in the car and the first song has just like
drum be intro and I remember whatever did and I
paused it and and and and when that party even

(11:56):
came in, I stopped it. My wife would tell you.
I looked at I said, this is about to be incredible.
Just off the pump intro take. I stopped it. I
was like, get ready because I just realized this is
something different here, this is I said, this is about
to be incredible. So we pressed play, and I mean,
I could not stop listening to this music for like

(12:17):
it was just the soundtrack for whatever. So I call
her back, like, oh my god, who are this is incredible?
And then I remember Prince calls and calls and like
I remember like this hearing her going, oh my god,
we're getting these calls and then boom. Now we all
know King as as King and it's an honor to
I called her and was like, yo, I want you

(12:37):
to produce a song on my album, Like I want
you to produce not not because you have dope, female,
not whatever whatever you dope period, and um, and I
want y'all on it, like I want I want y'all
on it. And I think the world knows King clearly now,
but I was I was honored to be like, yo, everybody,

(12:57):
this is King, like you know, like you know, I
want you all to shine some light on this and
I want to write a check to this young lady's
about he's wearing this hat as a producer on my record,
Like you know, it was like let's let's let's really
do it and um and it came out as a
killer song just imagine as well as I keep it
really one hundred. It's one of the rare songs on

(13:20):
one of my albums that I did not write, if
not the very first one. Like like she wrote it,
she produced it. It was like no, like like and
it's like it wasn't a statement, it just it was dope.
It's like listen, I don't need to write it's it's
fired to attract fire. I was like, this is I
want this, you know what I mean? So uh and
and then I mean she's still like still one of

(13:41):
my favorite producers. Oh man, man, I love like I
was so happy to see them, like you know, playing
with with Cold playing. It was just like what the
funk are you kidding me? Like, I mean so so
happy for them, man, big ups the King. I wanted

(14:02):
to talk to you about go back to Picture Perfect
because I will never forget. At that time, it was,
you know, kind of going back to the you know,
with the label things happening, that record was about to
be out of here, and then what happened. Uh so
we we we got distributed to E one and that's

(14:22):
when Shadow was there. Uh So Shadow was like the
main radio and the main reason I think, you know,
we're going from music fan first to like, all right,
what how do we follow up like these Grammy nominations
that were losing the India the second one I lost
the CeeLo shout out to see low um and uh
and it was like, well, why don't we do this

(14:43):
situation at that point, you know, you did the record
with Anthony David and Algebra that joint win crazy evermore
and it was like it seemed like a good spot.
And then my it's just once again, my whole thing
is like just still on your path, man, like you
still on your path, keep doing and then so here
we go doing this thing because it seems like with
this Shadow and radio and something like that, Shadow leaves

(15:05):
and it just like there was no momentum, no momentum,
but mind you, even with that picture Purple was a
huge record for me. It was it was it was
a really impactful moment to me. But it was also
a moment where I was like it really anchored us
into like like we really don't need these other companies,
like we probably would have made probably would have probably

(15:28):
arguably been bigger if we just did everything ourselves, like
completely ourselves, like you know, we we're coming off this thing.
And so it was the only time where I technically
had muscle, if you want to call that muscle, and
it was like we actually did less than what I
think my my actual team would have done if we

(15:49):
if we controlled the whole thing, you know what I'm saying.
But it was, like I said, it was it was
still a I can't get off stage without singing the song,
you know, Oh yeah, no you ain't making I'm saying
that it's not happening. But yet when you look at
like the I'm afford that which we which we put
everything together forward, you know, we can't get off stage
out singing, dealing, and we can't get off stage singing

(16:09):
you know, certain things. So it was one of those
things where it was like, yo, you're doing all right,
like stay on your stay on your path, you know,
and uh, you said something not too long ago on
on Uh, I think you're just doing you was talking
on I G And I think you would like it
never goes wrong, like when when when it's like when

(16:31):
it's just me doing it, when I like when we
on yourself. But it was like it was just like
it was just anchoring and it's like, man, you know,
I'm fine, Like mind you. I always tell everybody completion
is the most important word in music business. It's like
it's it's it. It's the difference between who wins and
who loses, you know, my company and now we are

(16:52):
celebrating twenty one years now, right, yes, yes, and we're
not celebrating it because we've we successfully did everything right,
we completed everything we tried. Yeah, And the thing and
let's be clear on something twenty one years because I
want to make this you know this, this specification twenty
one years as independent r and b artists like people

(17:15):
have no idea, you know, like when when Dame Dash
when he was like years you know, decades ago, when
he was like, you know, selling rap is like selling crack.
But like selling R and B is like selling coke.
It's just requires a different you know, when when he
was talking about you know, the Christ Shawan album and
why it didn't really go on Rockefeller and you know,

(17:37):
and I listen, I've never sold drugs a day in
my life, but I understood what he was saying when
I got into the business because I can be you know, hippout,
like I'm sitting right here in my hoodie ands and
like sweatpants. I can take a selfie right now and
be like this is the cover of my new album,
and as long as I'm spitting on it, like no
one will care. But R and B you do not

(17:59):
have that liberty, like the look gotta be right. Like
R and B is a money game, bro, and to
do it for twenty one years, I mean that really
is is a testament. And I want you to speak
to just the challenges of that, just so some of
our listeners and something, because we have a lot of
a lot of artists that listen to the show and
kind of tap in just for you know, for different games.

(18:19):
So just talk to him about your you know, how
you're able to make it work without having that you know,
hunted thousand or whatever to spend on the video or
just to be frivolous. You know, how do you make
that work? I think the difference really comes down to
is the first thing that separates in in R and
B was quality. So the first the first school we
had the show was like, yo, this is of the

(18:40):
same quality. Right, So immediately thinks hip hop independently or
major is to say that it wasn't looked at you
if you could spit the beast fires cool. We accept
it with R and B in soul music, if it
wasn't a major for some reason, looked at it like
this is this is less, this is not effort was
put in you Like you could tell, Yeah, you could tell,

(19:02):
like you could always see that artist where like, Okay,
they have a major album and it's like, okay, this
is the major album. But then they get off the
major and they put out something they self and like
the cover looked like fucking clip art. You know what
I'm saying. It's sound like just it's just the presentation.
It's just all the way. It's it's not up the part,
you know. I think I think one thing that I've

(19:23):
been very fortunate also and I got to say that
is that, you know, we got Dre and Vidal on
records when they're working on Ussher and Music and Jail
and they're working on my record. We got Rich Harrison,
he's working on Beyonce, but yeah, he's working on my record,
you know what I mean. As well as mixed with

(19:43):
my brother b Jazz and and you know, just Aaron
Harden from my band. That's different people. Once again, if
you're dope, you're dope, whether you're a super producer, Grammy Award, whatever,
or you just the homie I met in the house
band in Florida. If you're dope, you're dope. I have
problem with working with whoever right and but yet at

(20:04):
the same time, it has to has to move like that.
That whole thing chasing goose bumps means everything. Like for me,
that's the only rule in the studio. Does it give
you goose bumps? But that same thing with the album cover,
the album cover gotta make you go, oh my god,
that's crazy. I wish I thought of that all. You know,
that's crazy. You know. So the first man speaking of

(20:24):
album covers, I just before and we cannot forget um man,
we lost a mutual friend, uh the past year in Faith.
You know what I'm saying. Favor is the brother he
did to Mr. The Nice Guy album cover. He um podcaster, singer, producer.
Faith had a hot sauce like Faith. I mean, y'all

(20:49):
had company company, No dude, Like it's crazy because you know,
and it was tough. That was tough losing Faith and
we miss him truly. But he's been a graphic designer
for me. And it's crazy because like he did the Mr.
The Nice Guy album cover. Uh, he designed multiple T shirts.
I put out a Christmas card every year like a

(21:10):
growing christopers Carter animated Christ Yeah right yeah and then um,
but then he also produced music for me. He's shot photography.
I mean, he's he's won so many hats. He's been
a part of of my team and just as well
as the entire movement. He's won so many hats of

(21:33):
like like I said, whether it was the sauce he
was cooking with with a bow tie company, you know,
and and even that it was like when he made
the boat ties, like that was demos Lane Demo was
the boatie guy. So I expect was like, yo, I'm
gonna passed that off the you rock with that, but
the boaties was killing, like so he's won so many,

(21:53):
so many hats, and you know this is this was tough,
like you know, uh, I lost a lot of good
friends and and during the pandemic that were very intricate
to like what what we do. And Faye was one
of the people man were like, you know, this Christmas
was this last Christmas was tough because guess what he
was in this Christmas Carr. You mean, as we're going

(22:15):
into the album and figuring out how we're gonna make
the new T shirts of the graphic, He's the first call,
you know, and and and in the big up, you know,
I would say this, I make sure I say it
because Darrell was our point person between that Like Drell
is always the one who was sitting with Fade and
make sure he my wife would be happy with Howard
she was drawn or whatever this and that, you know,
and and and he really, you know, he really he

(22:37):
really lost a partner in that way. But Faye was
a solid dude man. And and we trying to beautiful
brother man, beautiful like that was one man, but he
was one, but he was one of the people who
you know, up two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning,
making slight changes so that when people see it, they
see the effort, they see the quality. And I think

(22:58):
at the end of the day, it just comes down
to at like, I want you to put my album
next to Whoever's album, D'Angelo usher, whoever, faith whatever, I
want you to put against the best album that year,
and whether it's better or not, I'm not here to
say it's better. I'm here to say it's gonna be
on the same quality. Guess what, we just with the
same mix, We shot it with the same type photographers,

(23:20):
we were were investing in in our and it doesn't
have to be that it's a five hundred thousand dollar budget,
you know. Guess what, We all are operating on million
dollar budgets, whether whether we got a million dollars or not.
We're all putting our best foot forward too. We're putting
our best foot forward, you know, we're writing, we challenge
each other and and I mean that was so even

(23:40):
to Collaro, even that was like the way the cover
art and everything, it was just I mean that was
because at the time you were I think you were
on tour or you know where you had you know,
your kids, and then I was on tour. So we
never had a real photo shoot for that album. We
never had a photo shoot. But let's find a dope picture.
Let's figure o a dope way to put it together
that could that could tell a story. And to this

(24:01):
that means it's it's one of the it's so it's
like a minimalist, simplistic out but it's solid if you
ran point more on that one. Real talk. But we
are from the same place like these, uh, these album
covers tell a story and there's a reason why this
picture is this way or whatever. And yeah, that was
the thing because I saw the joke. We had the
picture and I was like, all right, well, my whole

(24:23):
thought was I'm like, okay, we got these pictures of
us live and they did a mock up of us
like singing. You know. There was some pictures from our
Chicago show at the Shrine recipes, um you know what
I mean. We did the shows at the Shrine and
uh we uh brother took him I cannot remember his name,
please forgive me, but I got something from him and

(24:43):
he had him and I was like, all right, this
is dope. And we did a couple of mock ups
with my man, uh, my man Chris Charles and so.
But when I showed it to everyone's independent Soul and
our butter and so bound a right, you know, shout
shout out to the buttress and in red velvet. Uh
Susan but Um. I sent her a mock up of

(25:05):
it and she was like, Yo, this is dope, but
it looks like a live album. And I was like,
oh no, like that. So that's when I got that deal.
I was like, Okay, if I drop it down where
it's just our faces like covering over, it'll look like
the King of Rock cover, you know what I'm saying,
the brun d m C. And then if we put
the titles on the front with the bar code, that's

(25:28):
a call back to Irban Haines Sweet. So it's like
the double It's like that. That to me was what
tiggo representing. I'm like, we are two hip hop dudes,
like without a doubt, but you know also with soul
and the ship worked. But but think like like I said,
we're taking run DMC and Maxwell and put it together.

(25:49):
That is Tigolero. You know what I'm saying. So it
was like it was all it was all planned and
all well thought out. But that's the talk about like
it ain't just no we're just throwing this together. It's
putting some for a time and like a science behind
it and it and it makes it makes sense. And
every album come, I've seen you do, every song I've
seen you do, it's the same effort, and I feel

(26:09):
like the same thing we do for you. You'll be
kicking my ass. But I'd be like, damn, Arrol got
another album. I'm like, man, you got you did? You
can't hear from here. I was like, damn we we
ain't been in the house for two months and they
got ALM already. I'm like, damn, yeah, that's what that's
because I was scared. I was like, show was getting canceled.

(26:31):
I'm not going back to teaching. I'm like, what is happening.
I was like, give me the pen real quick. Let
me you know, for me, whenever, whenever I feel I mean,
and I mean that like music for me is like
my aspiring or whatever, like when I when Fave passed,
when Paris Bowen's passed, when Chadwick Bowman, when any of

(26:54):
that stuff. The first thing I did was I turned
the equipment on, you know, not like all. It's just
that's when when the pandemic started, I turned the equipment on.
It's like, for me, my whole view on creativity, my
whole view on art, my whole view on all of
it is different. And I'm a I have an album
called music fan First, and it means I'm a fan

(27:14):
of it first. First thing, it's it's the soundtrack to
my life. It's what brings me peace and what brings
me ease. So on my worst day, I'm picking the
picking a pin up. On the worst day, I'm picking
a guitar worst day. On my best day, I'm doing
it as well. So so yeah, it's not like I'm
like I'm racing I'm making the first pandemic album. It's like, no,
I'm gonna be everybody to the punch. It was just

(27:35):
more like, so, what you know, who's sick? Oh my god? Uh,
let me just write. And I just started recording, like
you know what I mean, I didn't know any anybody.
It's crazy. I've done two albums during the pandemic, but
but I just couldn't start writing, you know what I mean.
I wanted to talk to you when you speak on

(27:55):
as well, man Um. You you know I met through you,
um know kind of you know, through you Anakin Invader. Man.
These brothers are just amazing. Shout out to them, like
those guys, amazing brothers man, man Um. And you brought
them onto executive produce your new album, uh Lessons, which

(28:16):
is you know again, just great record, maend like just that.
Can't you know, top the up, top to bottom, just
always consistent. Um, How did you link up with them?
And what was the decision to make Lessons kind of
the first single. So meeting them goes back a while.
And this is a lesson for people just to shoot

(28:37):
your shot, right. So you know, Now, I got three kids,
and usually when I do a show, now I'm catching
the first thing smoking to get back home, right. So
a lot of times you'll find me at the airport
five o'clock in the morning, you know, right after the
show that dog tired walking through it like a zombie.

(28:58):
And I was at the airport and I was just
trying to stay awake. I remember, I was just like
trying at the fall asleep. So I was like just
scrolling through Instagram whatever I could do to keep myself occupied.
And I saw somebody attack me on something and it
the name was Anakin Invader, and I was like, and
it can, did y'all name you ourselves? At the Star
Wars Feelings, That's the first thing caught my attention, like

(29:19):
like like it's a dar Vader as an Anakin. I
was like, that's interesting, so click. I clicked it because
it caught my attention and it was showing up was
like Skywalker fighting dar Vader with like a hip hop
beat under it, and I was like, are that stop? Okay?

(29:40):
Next one? And then it was like Princess Leia like
kissing Han Solo with like and I was like, I
kind of got that off, so that's what you're doing.
And it probably like tens like I just went through
that page. I'll probably spent like ten minutes on that page.
And then I hit them back. I said, yo, you
got my attention? What's up? And then like before the

(30:01):
plane could take off, I remember like within ten minutes,
like it was like as if they could see that
I was looking at their page or whatever. I don't know,
but as soon as I said, you got my attention,
what's up? A dropbox linking clean. It came right back.
They stay ready Like Jared Broke. He would hit me like, man,
I don't want to overwhelm you, like he would send
you a photo with like a hundred joints and it's

(30:21):
just like bro like those dudes like animals, Man, love
those dudes. And I really yeah, I was like, what
do you Judge sent me a drop box link and
then before the plane could take off, like open the
drop box link, downloaded it and I had like five
songs written before the plane landed. Like it was just
like who are y'all? And it's been a great friendship,

(30:42):
great partnership since then, we've been working NonStop. And uh,
they sent me the Lessons track, which I gotta think
at that point, I'm not even it's not on my
radar to make another album. I just did hear from here.
I'm not even like Okay, I'm kind of good and
we're kind of still in the whole pandemic. But I
knew the record was like this is a special track.

(31:04):
This one is killing. And uh, immediately immediately YO kind
of have it like be raightther check for whatever, like
what's up with this track? And he was like, yo,
my bad. I did send it out just all transparency.
I sent it out to like another artist first, can
we like just wait and see what they say first?
Since I just sent to them first, I didn't respect.
I'm like, no problem, let's no listen, no problem. And

(31:26):
then about three days later they said, we haven't heard
back from them. So if you if you still want it,
shoot your shot. Most definitely still wanted. And I'm going
down the studio right now like I'm going down before
that and who all doubt and what happened was It
was interesting though, was when I went down there and
now it's like two o'clock in the morning of my anniversary,

(31:50):
right and I think if I wrote the track, if
I wrote to the track the first day they gave
it to me, I wrote a different song. But I
think when I went down there, you know, that's my anniversual. Okay,
it was still in his pandemics. You know, I lost
a few friends and yoh man, what kids that healthy parents?
You know. I just started thinking just that while I'm

(32:10):
just loading everything up. It was like I was just
kind of thinking, you know, for me, I'm one who
wants to figure out who do I want to be?
In a song and try to define that person as
much as possible and then just hit record. That's how
like if I if I cut out all the things,
I don't have to say, there's only things left is
this and then just make it rhyme and that's gonna
be a song. And how was it? And and it
just happened. I like I had a camera set up

(32:33):
for some thing I did the day before in the
room and I was like, let's turn this on and
let's record God has a funny well show, you know.
Was like after that was like and that was really like,
let's transfer this my phone, post it, go to bed,
and just go to bed. I wasn't even like thinking
nothing of it. Woke up at all and woke up

(32:55):
to like, just what is going? What are you doing?
What is this? This is great? You know? And it
was like, okay, let's uh, I might want to finish
this that you might want to finish this. I want
to be this was done, and I probably went I
probably went, honestly, and I probably never said this before.
I probably went to bed kind of hesitant to post
it because I was like I didn't look at the

(33:17):
beautiful beauty of like how transparent it was and how
many people could relate to it. I almost was worried
a little bit that it was kind of like a
jab at like all the ex girlfriends, which I didn't
want it to be everyone who let me down let
me to you, But it is true. I mean, guess what,
every failed record deal, every everything that happened in my
life had to have happened for me to have the kids,

(33:38):
you know what I mean. It wasn't really like a
you know, guess what I had to do that for you,
for you to be where you had to and uh
but I kind of I think that was my last
thought of the night, was kind of like it tomorrow
changed that line because I was a little I'm a
little heavy, you know, but it was. But I woke
up the next day and I was like, this is
my song and I was like, yeah, we're not changing

(34:02):
that line. You had to eat that one. Men was
laughing about this the other day on the phone with
uh Jared from any Innovator He described us. He was like, yeah,
working with y'all. Man, He was like Arrow, he's a
show pony, but you're a racehorse. I was like, dude,

(34:27):
that is so fucking like our dynamic. That's that's our dynamic,
that is our that like Errow, like he's gonna show up,
he's gonna be dressed to the fucking nines, like he's
gonna have the hat like you know, just you know,
And that was the thing I will say, you know,
just I picked up from you just kind of you know,
going out on tour and just watching you. You know,
everywhere you go you always look like Eric Robson. You

(34:49):
know what I'm saying, Always like dressed to the nines
is always if if if we're damn Chick fil A,
you know what I'm saying, a show can breakout. I'm
gonna be ready to give a show. And you know,
and that was just something that was always you with me.
I'm just like, look, I'm showing up the day of
the race. Show me who asked I'm beating. I'm running
my race. I'm beating your nigga's ask And I'm going home.
I'm not staying after for autographs. I don't want to

(35:11):
talk about the race, like I don't wanna. I did
my job, you know what I mean. You know what's
funny even talking about that our shows? Yeah, actually right,
I got a hat on a suit, a blaze or
at least or something like that, and you have on
a black hoodie and it works. It worked. It wasn't like, well,
why he gotta suit the one he got a hood
It actually know when you see the pictures it works

(35:34):
it I guess, But it's like that that might be that,
that might even the next album is like the show
Pony and the Race Story. I do take a fence.
I gotta be a d that on ponying right, Why
can't I be a thoroughbread respect on my name? I

(35:55):
need to be I'll be it. But but but once again,
you're talking about two you know three because Anakintivate is
actually a three. Three man um solid brothers man, solid
solid brothers, life changing man. Once again, you know, we
can go on here and talk about so many amazing
people we talked about and we're gonna miss so many names.
And I apologize because I worked with so many great people.

(36:17):
But definitely, you know, meeting those guys it has has
has definitely made me better. You know what I mean?
You really do? Yeah, lastly, man, I wanted to um
just touch on because this is something that me. You
we talk about you know from time to time, but
just like you know, just for our listeners, just man,
I just wanted to talk about just you know, how

(36:38):
you balance, just like I mean, you have three boys,
you know what I'm saying. I mean I have two boys.
My boys. I mean they're you know, older than my
boys and sixteen, so yeah, but but you have like,
you know, young kids, and uh, I just wanted to
you know, talking about like how do you you know,
balance you know, being in business for yourself and you know,

(36:58):
being husband, being good a father and and not just
being a husband father and just like I just paid
for ship and you know, go to my to the basement,
but you know, actually being present, you know in you know,
being present for your family in that way. Um, how
do you manage that? You know? First? You know, it's funny,
my whole theory on balance is different, right, Like the

(37:21):
fact there's like I don't know, there is no balance
right right, It's like how do you balance it? Right?
For me? We talked about the word process, right, so
I practice this thing called process over product. Like everything
is is connected to the process. This very conversation we
have right now, I can't worry about how many listeners
will have How in tune would people be or was

(37:43):
it a great interview or whatever? I could just be that.
You know, I'm talking to my brother, and how connected
can I be in this conversation. The same way songwriting,
you know, it's probably strengthening through song, right, strengthening through music.
Every time I sit on and writ a song, I
can't think about the last song. I can't think about
the successes or the failures. I can only think about
what I'm doing. Bro, that's so crazy you say that.
That's the same thing. Like I take that. It's like

(38:03):
about football coach in high school. He was like, you know, look,
you gotta have a bad memory. Like to talk about quarterbacks.
He was like, quarterback, you gotta have a bad memory
to be a quarterback. You know what I'm saying. If
you can't think about if you formbled on second down,
hey look bro, that'sh it over with. You know you
this you got another down. But you also can't think
about the touchdown. You can't write, You can't think about

(38:23):
either of it. You got to think about the play
you're doing and just put all the confidence that it
will work out, whether it will or will not. That's product, right,
because that's the only player you got. It's only player
you got this very second, right now, this minute we
talked right now, this is this is the only minute
right with the next minute ain't guaranteed in any form fashion,
So why not just trust this minute that we in
right now right like, enjoy the sixty seconds. So for me, now,

(38:46):
process over product transfers to different things that how do
I practice process or product with my marriage? How do
I practice process and products over product in my as
a parent? Is with our friendships or whatever? So guess
what I mean, really what I to our schedule, with
our teaching schedule, with our studio schedule, with all that
stuff like that, I mean, respectfully can say that there's
not enough time to to be the best friend to

(39:08):
every friend. I have to really be the best father,
the baby, best husband. I'm gonna try my best to
be that. What it is is really how connected can
I be with you in the time that we have? Right? So,
if I only have an hour in the studio, can
I get lost in the studio for fifty nine minutes?
I can't walk in the studio going damn money, got
an hour time? It's like, no, I'm gonna kill this hour.

(39:30):
I got in here and the same same thing was.
I go upstairs and I know I'm leaving on Friday,
but you know, I can play with the kids all
day today. Let's just get lost, Like how how much
can I can't worry if you're gonna be a doctor
or this and that is and that, Um, what's crazy?
Literally from this pocket, Just before I came here to
do this podcast, Um, my kids are on spring break,
and I was like, man, today today is busy, right,

(39:53):
and it wins he is busy and this I looked
at the schedule. So yesterday, like I was just telling
my wife, I said, I'm just taking the kids. We're
going to Pokonose. So I grabbed them through in the car.
We just balled out for like twenty four hours. Just
went to a went to a water park and just
kids state up to like four o'clock in the morning.
Got up, I got went back in the water, literally
got out the water, put clothes on, and drove back

(40:16):
here just to get on his microphone and talk talk
with you. And it's like, yo, guess what, we only
had twenty four hours, but guess what, We're just gonna
ball out for twenty four hours. And that's balance is
how much can you be in tune with what time
you have? Right? So, yeah, now I know I have
completely relate to that. I I kind of look at
it like, you know, to your point, when people think

(40:38):
of balance, they think of just like, oh, I have
the exact amount of time to do this, and the
exact amount of it. To me. In my career, balance
has always kind of been more so an oscillation between
two extremes, right, So, like when I'm locking in the studio,
like like when we were stickle arow right, it's like, Okay,
I'm locking in. I just have to. It's it's the world.

(40:59):
It just to my mind always is just surrender, like
I just have to just surrenders, Like, bro, this is
not gonna make no sense. I'm about to be up
for like you know, thirty six hours. I'm about to
like my sleep scares about to be ship. I'm about
to eat like ship for like a month. Like you
just know, it's just like there's no run, Like if
you try to make sense of this ship, you're lost.
So you just gotta give in. But then once the

(41:21):
record is done and once the work is done, now
for the next, you know month, For the next two months,
I'm just playing PS five and that's it, you know
what i mean. So you kind of have those you know,
those kind of two extremes, and that has been the
closest I've been able, you know, to get to balance.
You know, that makes you know, the most sense for
my life. But I've always been curious as to how

(41:43):
you you manage it with all the things you have
going on. What I'll tell you is that music, and
I say art in general, is the most selfish thing
I've ever seen in my life. Music wants everything out
of you. It wants to prom everything, It wants all
your time in a moment that like, and it will
test you in every money like what you already know,

(42:04):
we guess what the biggest the biggest show offer you're
gonna have every year is your kids. On your kid's birthday,
the big you know, promoters gonna call you with that
bag of bags. It's gonna be your kid's birthday on
your anniversary and three right, you know, it's like you know,
our wives already accept Valentine's they go get that money
and go get that right right, But like, why does

(42:27):
the show always have to land on their birthday right
or Christmas, New Year's like any of the Yeah, it's like,
but that's the take. Are you gonna take it? Are
you gonna take the show? Or you know what I mean.
And it's like, but that's that's this that's this craft.
And like as soon as I'm supposed to turn the
equipment off and go upstairs and kind of check in hit,
the next idea pops in your head and you're like,

(42:48):
oh my god, that's a crazy idea and then you
turn the equip So it's like it is the most
but you know, because it's elusive, like I think like
when you you know, when you say like because I
bro I feel you like when you bought to go
to bed it And you know, Quincy Jones is like
he talked we had him on the show like years ago,
and he was talking about just kind of that alpha state,
you know he calls the alpha state when your mind

(43:09):
is just you know, it's three four in the morning
and you're not thinking, you're just doing, you're just existing.
And so it's like you know that four in the
morning where you have that time and it's like, man,
I really know, I know, I gotta get up in
being the carpool line in three hours. But if I
go to sleep, I could lose this moment and I'll

(43:29):
never be able to recapture it, you know what I'm saying.
And it's just it's that elusive thing that you're chasing,
and so when you catch it, it's just like, yeah,
it's like catching the fucking shooting star. You're like, man,
I just gotta hold onto this, you know what I mean,
and keep some of this magic for myself. So I'm
gonna tell you what's interesting. This is what I like,
I said, my whole few on creativity is different now

(43:50):
and I'm one now where I can I can turn
the equipment off in that moment, right And it's more
because I'm at the realization now and I feel like
truth be told. And I say this before I even
say this statement, I feel like my opin is stronger
than ever right now, right, I feel like that my
connection whatever. But creativity is often some we treated like

(44:15):
a best friend we don't deserve, right, So in the
moment where we should turn the equipment off and go upstairs,
it's like when it shows up, we're like, oh my god,
you showed up. Hell my wife, hell my kids, right, creativity,
come come on in, come on in, have a seen,
have a seen? What do you y'all tell me? You know?
And that's how I was, Like I was probably that
way for like the seventy five percent of my life.

(44:37):
Like I would, I would leave the Christmas table, I
would leave the middle of making love. The idea, idea
pops in like you know, softest lips, I can say now,
like softest Lips happened, like the song, the idea of
the song happened while kissing somebody, and I stopped. I remember,
like I stopped doing what I was doing to write
the song, you know. And I've never been devoted there girls,

(45:00):
look coming you have God want give me that devoted
you know. But but what happens is like yo, but
we have to realize that creativity needs us just like
it needs we need it. And like Quincy Jones was
so worried or what what was it? Was it? Michael Jackson,
Prince said he couldn't leave the creativity alone because he
was worried it would go visit Michael Jackson, Right, So

(45:22):
well yeah, but I'm I'm I'm satisfied with now telling
creativity I'm busy right now. Can you come back? That
sounds crazy, It sounds crazy, but it's almost the same
thing of like, if you're confidence, it sounds it sounds
like confidence, but it's not just confidence, it's trust. Right.
So it's like, I'll give you the analogy of this.
If you called me and I was like, let's say

(45:44):
I'm in the middle of just like a super game
with my kids right now, and you called me, was like,
y'all need to rap with you a minute. I was like, Yo,
all right, hold up, um, give me two seconds. I'm
in this crazy battle with my kids, and it's that
we're having fun whatever whatever. H we're in the pool.
Let's say were in the pool. Fact, give me a
couple hours. I'm gonna call you back, you know what
I mean, Like cool, cool, and then we'm gonna pull
or whatever whatever. And I call you back three hours

(46:05):
later and I'm like, yo, so what's up? And You're like, man,
I can't even when I was what I was calling about, right,
But I was like, oh, that's cool. What you up to?
The First of all, just knowing you and we're friends
and we have talked, we've chopped it up, we've had deep,
deep conversations because of who we are for each other,
that next conversation might not be what you initially call it,

(46:29):
that it's gonna be great to the problem is we
go into it like the quarterbacks still thinking about the
last touchdown, the last interception. So I'm so worried about, like,
can you remember what you was gonna? Tell me? I
can't lose it, lose it. That we're not being natural,
we're not treating creativity like it really it just wants
to be invited. It just want to kick it, you
know what I mean. So it's like allowed creativity to

(46:51):
show up and be what it's gonna be and guess what.
Sometimes it's gonna we already know. Listen, sometimes it's gonna
be great. Sometimes it's not. How of times when we've
written a song I thought it was this is the one.
I'm by my Bentley, I'm paying on the house, and
it's my Mama, And it's straight crickets right off, the
most fire thing you thought you ever did, And it's

(47:13):
straight crickets. And it is this one thing, the one
little thing you did on your phone, you put on
your and wake up the next morning and that nothing
of it and now that this is the joint that
now you got a tour for two years, you can't
never get off stage aut saying, you know what I'm saying. So,
so why are we pre judging creativity at the end
day when it shows up and you have time for it,
then treated treated like it's supposed to be. And if

(47:34):
you don't, then then put the time in other in
other areas. And going back to even the balance thing,
my wife has to feel seen sometimes more than music.
She has to feel like I chose music over sometimes
my kids. As why My kids have have literally been
raised watching me in the studio and sometimes they have
to see me turn their equipment off for them, you know,

(47:56):
I mean they have to they have to see that.
So you have to be there and I have to
trust that. Like I feel like my music has gotten
better the more I've been like, no, let me live,
oh man, because you got if you don't live, you're
gonna have ship to write about? What am I gonna
sing about? Yeah? And it was you know, and for
me it was you know, not with your boys. You know,

(48:16):
your boys are really young, you know what I'm saying.
And for me, you know, my boy I had, you know,
kids like super young, and so it kind of worked
out in a good way because when I was when
they were young, and you know, they you know, they
really just wanted to be around their mama all the time.
So I was touring and stuff, you know what I mean,
I was out really getting it. But then by the

(48:36):
time they got the teenage years, that was when you know,
I kind of transitioned into Effie, Like we start our label,
so I could actually be around for those years with
like they really it's like, okay, no, we need dad,
like you know, it's you know what I'm saying. So
it kind of worked out for me in that way,
and I was thankful to have that. But um, but no, man,
that is uh, that is really sage advice. I did

(49:00):
the equipment for me. What has been my life saver
like that it saved me, you know, from stand up
to the crack of dawn, has been just having voice
notes like I have I have a I have Emancipation
triple disc albums on my voice though, because I just
have to just get it down and if I can
just get that down, I'll know to come back to.

(49:22):
But I have to have just some kind of bookmark
and then I can cut the equipment off for m my.
You know, our voice notes and we dare ship. It's
probably my biggest pros possession as well as just the
note to my phone. Well I'll tell you I don't
write in the studio, but I'm always writing. I always
writings staying in shape because I think, really we're just
trying to find an inspiration, like we know how to

(49:44):
write songs. So now I'm just constantly collecting things to
take my breath away. Somebody says a statement, I go,
oh my god, that's that's crazy. Right, I'll just documented,
IM gonna see something, and like how do I transfer
that into words? So I mean, yeah, it's like it's endless.
It's endless. It's collections and some of it I use
and pull from it whatever. But yeah, we are constantly
We're constantly to collect. But that does help, like the

(50:05):
fact we can document a moment um. But then for me,
like when I go in the studio, it's like how
how like how locked in can I be? You know,
and and the trust the product will work out, like
you know, trust the product that that that it will
take care of us if I stay focused on the process,
the product will working itself out. I love it. Man.

(50:26):
We'll listen arrow bro man, this has been you know,
long time coming. I guess the conversation we need to have.
I didn't think we'll be having it in front of
thousands of strangers on the internet. But but nonetheless, but
but now, seriously, man, I I just you know I've
told you this, you know, time and time again. But um,
I just really just want to just thank you, you

(50:46):
know what I mean for just really uh just showing
up in in my life and in my career in
a way that really, you know, for me, just showed
me the importance of mentorship, you know what I mean,
And you know you really, um just everything from the
business to like the show presentation, because I mean I
was like, I'm straight rap dude, so going into R

(51:08):
and B, I had no fucking clue what that what?
I'm like, Yo, what what is that? You know? And um,
you definitely were a huge you know, mentor and model
and just um you know, big homie and the whole
nine man, And um, you know, my my career would
not be where it was where it is, you know
without just your influence and just your guidess just taking

(51:28):
time just to hol at me whenever I had questions
and just put me up on game. So um, no, man,
this conversation was a dream come true, brother, and I
just wanted you know the world to hear this, you know,
and just to hear your journey and you know, really
just you know, give you that respect. Man, twenty one
years doing this ship independently. Bro, Hey, this ship would
break big niggas with muscles. It ship ain't sweet, bro.

(51:51):
So no, man, I just want to just give your flowers.
Just thank you. I love you, man. You know, it's
been an honor, the pleasure it's been on a pleasure
to watch your dream consistently come true. You know what
I mean. I think one of the pleasures that I've
had is watching a lot of people's dreams come true.
And you, Bob, not only be one of the most
prolific people I know, one of the greatest voices I know,

(52:11):
so the voice being utilized so many the ways. I
can't tell how proud I was just just when you
joined when this question love supreme and you were on
and I was like, yo, this first of you also
are the most knowledgeable. I always say this, You're not here.
This for the first time. I've never ever told you
of a record or a producer or a song that
you did not know. Not one time have I ever

(52:34):
know it was what it was one time you got
me and it was a big one too. It was
the night we went, the night we did been in love, bro.
I don't even know if I told you this. You
were the first person to put me on to Todd Runner. Wow. Wow,
Like he was one of those artists. I always saw
his name and like I would see him. I knew

(52:54):
his who he's associated with, but I didn't really know.
And so then I think you played me. I saw
thee and I was like, oh my god, that's Todd Runner.
Like I've been hearing that song forever while you put
me on the all you ran through the Something Anything album,
that's one time one like the entire I was like
this joint from nineteen seventy two. Beside this record, You're like, oh,

(53:19):
that's such and that's what the same playing in Heello
on it. Now that's killing I'm like, oh my god,
here's this new indie artist. I'm for the Bay Area
killing it. They're selling independent records in the flea market.
Oh Yeah, that's such such such got that, man, link
you up? How do you know? All of this stuff
is really mind blowing. Man, I'm gonna just say this,
and I gotta say you know, first of all, you

(53:40):
know you're my brother, and I love you, love you,
love You're so true to your art. You're so true
to your craft, to your friendship and to who the
person who you are. You know, it's so funny. You
are the first person like to curse in front of
my mom and she didn't even like hesitate, like you know,

(54:01):
you don't listen. You know, you are a cursor, right,
it is it is, It is fine. It's party of
m O. So you and like you know, at that time,
my studio was in my parents house, right, So when
we did my parents and just even wherever my dad,
it wasn't like, oh, this is how he talked to me,
and then this is how he talks to my mom
and dad. It's like, no, this is how he talks

(54:23):
and whoever the round, I'm going to accept this and
love him. And my parents loved you. It wasn't like
who this guy you brought in the house to this party.
It was like, no, we love fonte bring him as
many times he wants, but it was like it was
why I remember watching like the Dynamic you talking to
like my parents, and it was still the same way.
It was like the MFS and the like, and I

(54:46):
was like, yeah, really that's how he really he really
fired off. But it was but guess what it was
like genuine is love and it's like a genuineness behind it.
It ain't like shock value whatever, Like Yo, you're just
a true brother, you like for real, like for real,
for real, anyone who knows you know you're just a
true brother. And it's like this mad I got mad
respect for you already, know, like Pa, any time you called,

(55:10):
like y'all need you to break the ince in this
video or like this melody or joint on this like
just seeing the background focus on the joint. You know,
I'm like, all right, let's let's do it man. You
know likewise too, and everybody as a ticklere today like
when y'all doing it it like we're gonna do it again.
I'm definitely I would certainly love to do another week.
You know, it's just hopefully we can do it at

(55:31):
a time where like people ain't dying and you're having
kids and like you know, we have all ordered in
our life this time around. You know what I'm saying
right right, I'm looking forward to it, but I just
need to let you know, man, I appreciate you have
me on. I love your brother and look forward doing
more with you. I love you too, bro for real, man,
well listen on behalf of Unpaid bill Ship, Steve a Mirror,

(55:54):
Oscar winning a Mirror, my work wife like this has
been quest love Spring. I'm not for love uh fonticolo.
But oh man, thank you all so much for tune in.
We'll catch you all on the next go around. Tap
In with Eric Robinson is the album Lessons out right
now on our platforms, Go get it and m yeah,

(56:14):
We'll catch you on our next m M much love.
Supream is a production of my Heart Radio. For more
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