May 20, 2020 • 58 mins
Take a ride with Questlove and Team Supreme as they dive into the life of Joesph Antonio Cartagena bka Fat Joe. Joe details growing up in the Bronx, finding his voice, stepping up his hustle and evolving into a world renowned rap icon AND actor.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.
I'm your host. Quest Love with Me is like yeah
quarantine from the West Coast. Hello, Hello, Hey everybody, I
miss you and hug you. Sucker Steve from the top
(00:23):
of his building in Manhattan a tree dish Central. Were
you at pay Bill Westchester? Okay, so I can visit? Yeah,
come on over, hang out with freaking crack. That's the
whole thing here. Don't improve me that were you broadcasting
(00:44):
from now Broth from the crib Riley, North Carolina? Okay,
keeping it real, ladies and gentlemen, This this episode has
been long, long overdue. Um. You know it's it's it's
a rarity that anyone in hip hop culture, UM can
(01:04):
have sustainability and change with the times and still stay themselves.
Uh facts in this culture without hitting a landmine. And
our guest today, uh is I mean? I call him
Teflon Joe, I mean yo yo. Me and my buddies
(01:24):
have a saying if if a nuclear bomb went off,
the last two rappers standard would be Fat Joe and
Busta Ryan straight up, straight up y'all brothers. Don survive everything, man,
Ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, let's let's welcome uh the One
and Only, uh, the the the God fat exactly exactly,
(01:49):
Don Cardigina to love Supreme so much? How are you
making out? How are you making out in this current environment? Sir?
I mean, I'll just you know, I'm happy to be home, man.
I'm happy to be at home. Man. I've been uh
on the road for twenty five years, man, and the
fact that I'm able to be with the family and
(02:11):
spend time at home with my daughter, my wife and everybody. Man,
I'm actually enjoying it. To be honest with you, we're
is home currently? Your your Jersey resident right now? Correct? No? No, no, no,
I live in Miami. In Miami for like seventeen years.
I've always known you as I'm sorry, um, I've always
(02:31):
known you as a a Jersey resident. I didn't know
that you moved to Miami. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I lived
in the Bronx my whole life, and then I moved
to Jersey. My wife forced me to move to Jersey
because I ain't want to lead the Bronx and she
was like, if you don't move I'm leaving you. So
I had to go to Jersey, which was the smartest
thing I ever did in my life. So when I
(02:53):
went to Jersey, I finally heard birds chirping and middle
kids playing in the street. And then um, eventually a
one time, I got so frustrated with like the New
York hip hop scene that I moved down to Miami.
And that's when, you know, that's around the time I
met DJ Khalid before he was you know, when he
was just underground DJ and cool and dre and just
(03:16):
the love down here, the camaraderie and the love was
just so much different from what what's going on in
New York. So I had came down here for a
fresh start, and uh, I been done here ever since.
Around what time was that when you when you went
to Miami, Man, that's like seventeen years ago. You know,
I always said, you know, uh, one day, you know
(03:39):
when I started, I started out digging into crates and
if you go to them early videos, if you would
go engine engine number nine on that you and I'm
one of the guys jumping in the background. I was
in everybody's video. Yes, I was in everybody's video. Everybody
was my video. We worked with each other. We didn't
(04:01):
look at each other as competition. It was all love
when I came up. And then when some money came
into play, everybody started having their own click and everybody
thought they was bigger than the other one. And that's
how New York got separated. And then one day I
was in my home in New Jersey and I was
fed up with it already. If I was listening to
(04:22):
the radio and Uh I heard Uh Cameron said he'll
smack the kofi or for Nazi's head. And that's when
I told my wife to pack up the events. We out,
we out of here. We can't be over here like this.
This I don't know what's going on with New York
kip hop. And we came down here and we started
(04:42):
uh the Miami movement, like with the DJ Khali, with
the pit Bull, the Rick Ross, the Cooler Dre. You know,
we sent it off down the end and made that camaraderie.
And then when uh little Wayne, when when Katrina happened,
he came down to Miami, him and bird Man, we
embraced them, and that's when you get all those records
we was doing, like taking over Brown paperback. Yeah, so
(05:08):
in the in the Bronx. Um, how would you describe
your childhood for those that don't know your history in
the Bronx. Well, you from Philly, right, but there's there's
different parts of Philly. There's North Philly, South Philly, Allegheny,
(05:28):
German Town, this, this that. So what I'm trying to
make reference to that is he's from North Carolina, this, Faithville,
this Greensboro, this Charlotte's. I'm from the Bronx in the
part where hip hop was created. Right, So what I'm
trying to tell you is there's many parts of the Bronx.
(05:49):
So me as a little kid, I was watching Mellie
Mel and Grandmaster Flash pick up games of basketball against
little I see Little Rod we see Uh you know
I grew up in like literally so if you look
at so privileged, So Ruby D who's the first Lave team?
(06:10):
No MC, he used to have a softball team. These
guys never lost. I used to watch some play softball.
I used to go to every jam my my my brother, Uh,
my brother was the way I fell in love with
hip hop. My brother used to go to all the
jams and bring me back to Cassette tapes from all
the Zulu Nation anniversaries or Cool Hurt or whatever. And
(06:32):
I used to listen to it so much I thought
I was actually in there, like give me like back
up from the ropes, back up from the ropes. Then
they playing Mary Marriage, Why you get your badge of
it on? That funk is on ah, and then they
come back with I don't know if you've been told,
(06:53):
but Santa al Claus is a black man. I'm like, man,
I'm like, I'm I'm like, I'm in my room listening
to the cassette tapes like oh my fucking yad and
just because I was too small to go and then
when they did it outside, I would go to outside.
So I was privileged to be born in the soil,
(07:14):
like you know, just no other way to explain it
to you, Like I was blessed as a hip hop fan,
as a hip hop fan, not just as the rapper
or whatever. Wow. So it's as far as like it
it calling you, I mean, were you rapping early as
a kid or you just like, I'm a fan, But
(07:34):
at what point is I wanted to be Like, at
what point is it like, Okay, I want to get
involved in the culture different it was I was in.
I was the culture. When I'm trying to tell you
I break dads, I wrote Graffiti terroraor squad as a
graffiti crew started out off Graffiti Terror Squad where all
(07:56):
over the bronx, on the walls, on the train. When
I got hold up, I would bring it out my house.
I'm talking too much in front of my daughter right now,
but I would break out my house when my parents
were sleep, go hit the trains and dangerous ship like
cops chasing us under the third round or like crazy
ship come back to my house. My sister would open
(08:19):
the door like five in the morning, like damn man,
like you mut and then you know, when I wake up,
you know it was time for school. But right in
graffiti but rapping, I wanted to be like my brother.
My brother was you know, he used to wrap, and
I wanted to be like my brother, and so I
started to wrap. So I was writing maybe y'all nine
ten years old eight nine ten years old and my
(08:40):
mother's uh table where everybody was like what type of
what am I doing? And I'm like, you know, I
want to wrap your ten years old? Oh my name,
my my, my first name was uh little pop, little
pop and uh and uh we were saying ship like
(09:03):
Joey Rockwell and all that. And I had a little
little fake rounds like sneakers and cheap you know something
you could fill every rock you can, like like I
was just you know, learning the game. But you know,
uh yeah it was real. So as far as like
(09:25):
in in the area that you grew up, were there
any other notable hip hop luminaries that we wouldn't know
him today? Like were you everyone year old or like yes, yes,
So what happened was so as I told you, hip hop, whippy,
(09:45):
whip wop, star Ski, all of them living my block.
But when the guy who inspired me to rappers lord
for ness, so I was already in the streets hustling
doing all types of ship, you know, be in you know,
a product of my environment in the worst way. And
Finesse he used to sell us papers. So back in
(10:07):
the days, they would bring the newspaper. So Finesse where
by the newspaper at the store for a quarter where
he was selling in the building for a dollar. He
was an entrepreneur, so he would walk up and down
the project building going pay peeper and then my mom's
will give me a dollar. I go see Finesse he
makes not his real ship, and then he would make
(10:28):
seventy five sets and then give it back. But Finesse
would always something like, Yo, Joey, I'm gonna be a rapper.
I'm gonna get on and I'll be like, yeah right,
I locked the door, like man, he's so fully ship
and uh. And one day, one day I'm just listening
to the radio read alert. He's just playing the funky Technician.
(10:50):
He's playing all the finession. I'm like, no way, fines
made it. And that gave me, uh, sometimes you gotta
see it. So that gave me the proof that we
can actually make it out of the hood and actually
become professional artists. And that's when I started, you know, uh,
(11:10):
really believe it. We could do something. And then also
Diamond Dan Diamond used to write graffiti with me, and
he would tell me all the time, Yo, Joe, you're
gonna go to jail, You're gonna get killed. You out
here doing crazy ship. Huh that bro, why don't you
put all the ship you do in the streets into
your music. And actually, even though I had money at
the time, actually crazy money he took me to the
(11:33):
studio and paid for the session Diamond to like, you know,
get me off the streets. And so we went in
there and we and we made the demos and then
uh and one of them was Flowed Joe, my first single.
So I went, am I talking too long? I don't
know perfect? This is perfect? Okay? So we went We
(11:57):
made like three demos in that first session. One of
them was Flowed Joe. So I had when I wanted
to earn even though I grew up with show business
a g. I grew up with Diamond, they were already on,
they were already on. I wanted to earn my spot.
So I went to Amateur Night at the Apollo and
I performed that Amateur Night, and I wanted four weeks
(12:21):
in a row. I got a question. Yeah, yeah, that's
how I got on. I got a question because we
rarely have actual Apollo Amateur Night contestants on the show, people,
people who survived the apology is the truth? What is
the true way to rid the system so that you
(12:41):
win Amateur Night the Apollo? Is it the people you
bring with you or like, I can't tell you rig
I I asked some people in there, but it's the
power is like a stadium compared to the people. I
might have grown. Twenty people came to see Fat Joe,
but it's it's two thousands, three thousands easy. But I'm
gonna tell you something, and this is where, this is
(13:04):
where no one can ask me if there's a god.
You understand what I'm saying, because as I went back recently,
maybe maybe a year ago, I really thought about that Apollo,
Like I said, are you winning, Apolo? What do you do?
So I went in there. It was a hundred fifty
groups and I remember looking at everybody saying, they don't
have a chance. I don't know what they're doing here.
(13:27):
I'm gonna take this ship. Now. What's crazy is if
you want to talk about the elephant in the room,
I was the only Latino in black column with a no.
And then so when I think about it, how it
(13:48):
went down. I just went out there. I had two girls,
three girls from my projects, Michelle and Barbara and DC,
and they came out with me and they were saying
behind me doing some fly ship and I was walking
through rapidly. But oh, the people just went crazy. They
couldn't hear a bar or nothing. They just they fucking
(14:09):
went crazy. And every time I came out, they just
went crazy. And it wasn't because of my lyrics. It
wasn't because it's they just went crazy. I don't and
I say that was God in the room. He said,
this is how are you gonna do it? So I
went four weeks I met Red Alert. Red Alert was
the biggest DJ in the planet Earth. It was only
(14:33):
two DJs at the time. They were considered mainstream. It's
Red Alert and Mr Magic. Mr Magic. Y'all m the
magic recipe. So Red Alert said, Yo, do you have
a demo? Can you give me a demo? So I
gave him flow joke. About a month later, I had
the flu. I was in the projects laying down and
(14:53):
the ship came on and I jumped to the ceiling.
How high I jumped from the flu. I put the
peak on the window and the projects and told everybody,
y'o rather learn playing my ship. He playing everybody going
crazy in front of the building. And then he kept
playing that for like close to like eight months every week.
(15:14):
And then Chris lightly rest in Peace came to the
hood way. I hustled my block where I hustle and
told me, y'all you fat Joe. I was like yeah.
I was like yeah. I was like he said, you
know why am I saying yeah? You baby Chris And
he was like, y'all, I want to sign you on
the record deal like I think you could be a superstar.
And I signed in the middle of the street and
(15:36):
you signed instantly the Relativity. Yeah, I don't have no lawyer.
And now I was I was a drug dealer. Uh,
what do you want me to do? No? I was
just like at that was speedy. So wait that and
that answers my second question. So that's definitely you saying
(15:58):
you talking about on Diamond's Uh, I am in every
ad lib on that album. That's my claim to make,
my fucking claim to Hey, you talking about your ship.
(16:19):
Oh that's you, you're over. Yeah, I am the ad
lite every song I dare you the acts Diamond, I am.
That's my claim to face. I was there for that
whole album, the whole process. Like it's like confession, Like
there was a point in my life where you know,
(16:42):
there was enough based on my voice to be to
be curson and really intimidating people. So shut up, like
you like you're like you know, I swear it got
like every time post nine three and I'm saying, fuck
you talking about I'm literally just echoing you talking about
(17:09):
Yo chill that is. That is my favorite Curson or
records ever ever. But you were Were you not um
involved on the Jazz J record at all? The compilation
that Jazz J No No no I was. I was
from Diamond d On but I knew Jazz Jazz. Did
my whole first album in Jazz J studio, But I'm
(17:31):
not that. I think the compilation was before me. So
when when did the official like the uniting of digging
in the crates? First? Of like was it then? I
think I always digging in the crates. I'm from the project,
so I was digging in the crates. There's no way
(17:52):
to explain it to you. Like I grew up with Showbis,
grew up with Diamond, grew up with Finesse. Hey I'm wrapping,
I'm digging in the crates. I was, you know, getting
a lot of money in the streets. And I was
at first the fat Spanish guy that stands on stage
behind Lord Fernas and Diamond D And You're looking like
(18:12):
who the fund is the d boys standing behind these motherfucker's.
I stout with the convertible bends outside like motherfucker's is
like that must be the big boy from the block.
And so people knew me from that. But I was
always digging in the crates. I don't think there was
anitie annoying team, you know. I do remember we was
(18:32):
at the Fever and the Bronx when I got acts,
could we make O C digging in the crates? And
O C was from Brooklyn and I was like, hell, yeah, man,
he had he had to join. You lack the minerals environments.
I am then the size yeah like he was. I
was like, yo, yeah, Tim's up. I was like, uh,
(18:53):
we better make that boy digging in the crates and
and and so I remember that it was Big l
around this time, or Big I was there ready. So
so Finesse have met Big El doing the Big Il
used to battle everybody on on the all of course
the street from Apollo every day after school. Big I
(19:13):
was just killing dudes. Finesse met him, put him on
the remix and yes you may remix. I was at
the show the first time Big L ever at a show,
and he destroyed that motherfucker. And I was like, oh
ship and they was like yo, we signed you know
big Al. I was like, big motherfucker dr TC he was.
(19:35):
He was incredible. It was like it was like a
Finesse on steroids. It was like, first of all, to me,
Finesse is the best uh punchline lyricists at the time.
And then he found like he he found the Bravo
of the Superman like Big else. It was. It was
a no brainer. So as far as the environment is
(19:58):
now and what you're used to like when you're doing concerts,
I know that it was like night and day with
with with the twenty five year laps in between. But
what were your early year, early shows like promoting on
the road and like back in ninety two, like from nine,
(20:19):
Like what was that like back then? In the very
you ever heard of Steve Lobel? You know Steve Lobell.
Steve Lobell was our product manager at Relativity. He had
Fat Joe and Big Punk and the rest of the
terrorist squad in the van driving through the whole America
because at the time I was scared to fly, so
(20:42):
we drove everywhere to sew we we drove to Chicago, Cabrini,
greens Uh with Pink House d J Pink We drove
all around this country eating McDonald's, and we was eating McDonald's.
And even when flow Joe was like Clow Joe was
number one in the country, it went't number one. And
(21:03):
I was still getting like four hundred dollars of hundred
dollars to show. It wasn't no real money at the time,
so it was like a struggle, you know, to get
to the next level. But I had left like a
fairy tale, and this is no bullshit. I had left
the drug game alone when I signed to start rapping,
and I refused to go back, even though my friends
(21:26):
were still making literally millions of dollars. They was in
bent Leaves, they was in all that ship. I wouldn't
go back. If somebody got robbed in the crew, I
wouldn't go back. If anything, I would not go in
there because I knew this was my way out, is
the way I had to go. So I took a
real pay cut, so I would do stuff like not
only you know, do my shows, but then um for
(21:51):
promote parties, so I would poor care Arres Caress probably
came and performed for me twenty times for free in
the Bronx, So everybody had a I mean like, yeah,
I gave Biggie his first show. I gave him his
first show ever. Yeah. I gave him a g and
the bottle of My Way and he came and I'm
talking about party and bullshit just came out. It's like
(22:12):
the first show. B I g that. Joe and I
was just promoting parties, making a couple of grands on
the side and doing my show. You know, it was real.
It was a real struggle. Yeah. I remember an episode
(22:34):
of Yom TV raps where you had um like your
own clothing joint or like you like one of the
first dudes to have your your venture. And I think
I was j J five sixty. I think you know everything.
I remember this. He had the jacket. So what happened.
(22:58):
What happened was and I'm gonna take you some real ship.
I've never said before, but uh, it was probably the
first or the second. I don't know if WHU Tank
had their their brand first. It was one of the
but I remember we was making easy So we were
making these coats and these snarkles. Uh, the leather jackets
(23:19):
almost like the avrix Is and and I remember going
to a party and Puffy and jay Z walking into
the bathroom. I was in the bathroom where f J
five sixty snorkles on and I was like, oh ship
there was like yeah, we're rocking your ship, and I'm like,
(23:40):
all right, cool yo. But the business partners that I had,
they were really really cheat They didn't want to really
mask deduce. They didn't really really uh want to market
and promote, and we lost our shot. We could have
made hundreds of millions dollars with that land, with that line.
It was ahead of his time. Yeah, to visit that,
(24:01):
Like y'all remember you and Freddie were like live at
that story and like, yo, I want to go over
there and see that joint, Like I always wanted to
see it and never knew what happened to it. Um,
I was just gonna ask. I just I was just
kind of curious, since you were talking about you signed
your deal in the middle of the street. You were
new to the story. You didn't know anything some of
those hard lessons that you had to learn on your way.
(24:23):
Because now you are, you are the businessman. You know
this business in and out. But before we were like
a couple of them hard lessons that you had to learn. Well,
I really, I really ain't gonna lie to you. I
did not get jerked by Chris lightly in the middle
of the street. So I was lucky, good, No, No,
I was lucky. He did not jerk me. He was
fared with me. Uh forever Relativity was good to be um.
(24:47):
But I did get jerked from my publishing. So I
had signed a deal with this guy. His name is
jelly Bean beneath. Yeah. Yeah, So he was signing. He
was doing music form for McDonald and all he hit me.
(25:07):
He hit me with the YO we both lock teen
No this this bullshit. And then I met him in
I signed this publishing. He gave me fifty dollars when
I signed. He's been robbing me from that publishing ever since.
And I still ain't see him in like twenty five years.
(25:28):
And uh, you know, and so we've been trying to
get some type of royalty accounting or whatever. I didn't
have my publishing back till around leaned back. But anything
before there was anything I did, the man robbed me
from my publishing. Real talk, oh ship damn Benita, Yeah
yeah Donald pass my good old lot t though, my
(25:52):
good old lot though. Brother, can you talk to like?
Can you talk to her? Like? Latino music and hip
hop we're meeting at that time. I mean behind you
the giant picture of Factor of Love, Oh, the king
of what's your name? When we asked that question, I'm
(26:13):
Bill Sherman. Yo, Bill, let me tell you something, Bill.
Hip hop is black and Latino music from day one.
So if you go to the very inception of hip
hop music, the very first block party jam, you will
see the Latinos in there and the blacks in there,
(26:34):
and they break dancing and they write and refeat. Latino
just break dancing and write and refeat. So the black
guys is mostly DJ and I'm seeing and asked the
real focal point on it. But if you go to
day one and you look in the archives of hip hop,
it's always been black and Latino music. Was it like that?
(26:55):
I'm sorry, Bill, but for you, like in the house,
like was it like was for me? Personally? I grew
I grew up black, so like I'm a black Latino
Now it's real. It's now. You gotta that. Everybody in
the world don't understand what that means. I grew up black.
(27:16):
So like, uh, where where I grew up was nine
nine point nine percent black? And that Joe had the
hairs like the Beatles with green eyes and thought he
was black because there wasn't the world. So all my
girlfriends growing up was black. Me black. If you look
(27:38):
at the class pictures as me and thirty black people,
like who they they? I think they said, uh, the
killing the Malcolm X. Who killed Malcolm X? They showed
his class picture at one point he was the only
black guy. It was not for white people with the
whole picture when he was growing up, and that was
that Joe, And that was that Joe. So you said,
(28:00):
like the Beatles, you mean my pad or hippie Arabic. Yeah,
like this, look I put up a picture maybe like
two weeks ago. I found one um with my hair
like the Beatles, bro like the fucking Beatles, like mushroom. Yeah.
And so what happened was nobody told me, yo, you're
(28:20):
not black. I don't know how to explain it to y'all.
So even though my my father's Cuban and my mother's
Boter reading, you know, my mother speaks English fluently. Everything.
You know, she grew up on all the Gladys Night
all over the Franklin's, you know my house. Every day.
We we didn't play South, We played I Will Survive.
(28:42):
Oh oh no, fuck out the door, like that's the
ship we was playing. And and it wasn't until I
went to high school and there was no social media.
It wasn't even a rap video at that time. So
when I when when when I went to high school,
I met a friend of mine. His name was Charlie.
(29:05):
He lived on the other side of the Brooks and
when he took me to his hood, I never knew
there was so much Puerto Ricans in the Bronx. And
this is like fifteen minutes away. So just like me,
I met the one black guy. Yeah, then I met
the one black guy who thought he was Puerto Rican
in that neighborhood. Ship he thought he was Puerto Rican, right,
(29:35):
So when I went there and I started going to
Charlie's house, that's when his mother was like, yo, you're
not black, and she starts s flaiming Petla com ball
uh group orn all the South Side, you know, all
the legends, and I'm like, oh ship. So that's when
I got put onto Spanish music and more so Spanish pride,
(30:00):
areted finding myself in my culture. Every window I looked
at had Puerto Rican flags. I'm talking about fourteen flights.
Every window had Puerto Rican flags and they was bumping
that south Side ship out the window. They were like this.
So that's when I started to learn about Hector Lava
and South southe music and that Latino heritage. And then
from there I just wanted to learn more and more
(30:21):
and more more and uh and that's where we at yo,
not to fast forward, but just I gotta tell you,
based off of that, that's why it was so good
to see that episode of She's Got to Have It
when y'all went back to Puerto Rico and really just
broke down the connection of like the African diaspora to
Puerto Rico and how we are all black and how
(30:41):
they you know, it was just it was perfection. That
must have felt real good. All right, now, all right,
who are you channeling with with your voice bidding? Like
(31:04):
that was my favorite character from that show? All right?
Thank god? But listen, let me tell you now. I
mean a lot of people I met had boss with
a bunch of actors that say, yo, man, you killed
that Ship. I know hard. I'm gonna tell you the truth, y'all. Um,
(31:28):
that was like the four tee member of Woo Tank.
So they said, they said, this guy's got this guy
got money, got his own strip club, but he stuck
in the past. He's still wear Tim's and baggy pants
and hoodies and sniffs a little colt and and and
then I was like, oh, Ship, that's like the long
(31:50):
lost member of Woo Tank and that's whoy model when
he went after I came up with that whole character
like if you know he was a member of who
thank toll me? That little shows when he win, I
know who the fun is there, you know. And that's
how I feel when a lot of times when I
get around the wood Tank because they all got money,
but they'd be like, it's still not three not fault yo,
(32:15):
straight up, Pelly Pelly Jacket is Pelly Tams. I'm like, yall,
like you thinking, didn't get the memo, Like it's like,
you know, but that's that's what winning wins based off.
Do you find do you find it? Often? Especially coming
(32:36):
from where you came from, and you need to evolve
as a person and as an artist, like outgrowing your
team life and your early adult life into where you
are now. Was it was it hard making that transition?
Like was it hard? Huh? No? No, No, I still
(32:58):
got still got your pink, Tim got, I still got Tim. No,
I got Tim dude, he was he was. And um.
First of all, the first transition was I had to go,
I'm writ in the book of my life. Now when
(33:19):
when it comes out, y'all read it and y'all get
a bigger understand it. Right. But first of all, when
I came in the game, I think the biggest transition
I had to do was, uh, leave the streets behind.
So when I came in the game, a lot of
people were scared of me hearing my reputation in the streets,
(33:40):
so they almost thought like I was gonna be the
New York Show night like extort my way or whatever.
So I had to win people's trust and never feel
like I'm some bully or um. That was the first
transition I had to make. So I actually was sitting
back looking at everybody else at the Fool when I
knew I could score wash everybody, but you know, try
(34:02):
to be a nice guy so these people won't think
I'm an animal. Right, And then we still had that
conception of keep it real, keep it real, keep it real.
So fat y'all always had to keep it real, keep
it real, even though I had records like What's love
When you saw me, I was walking in with dirty
street dudes entourage, ice drilling, did you know? So you
(34:24):
was like, yo, that we had that. I think that
was the biggest transition I had to make, and I
made it maybe in the last five years of my life,
where I said, you know, keep it real, keep it
rail is making sure my people are fed, my family
is good, and let me try to elevate and grow
(34:45):
and be this guy you see now where damn, this
guy is a nice guy, like we just never knew.
And at the time too, like I don't want like
me and Me and Biggie was really tight. Me and
Notorious Virg Biggie was really tight. I don't have to
just because at the time it wasn't cool. You felt
(35:06):
like it was the sucker to ask somebody, yo, let's
take a picture, right, So I missed out on all that, right. So,
and at that time, even if you liked each other,
everybody was ice grilling each other, right, So I had
to learn how to smile. I had to learn yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had to learn how to smile and be like
(35:28):
all right, yo, let it down, like grow, we're getting
old chill. And that was the biggest transition I had
to make from keeping it real, and I lost a
lot of money keeping it real because people really didn't
when I didn't understand this. People don't want to be
affiliated with gangsters, like you know what I mean that
Joe let alone. We heard room as he's a gangster.
(35:48):
He's coming with dirty gangsters, and you know that we
can't invite Joe. We really want Joe to come to
the ampings, but we know that guy's coming with dirty
street guys and somebody might get wrong did the bathroom
and the old White Party, So don't invite Joe. Man.
One question I always wanted to ask you. Are you
(36:10):
about to ask about who shout you? Oh? Well we
get there before we get man. So one question I
always want to ask you, just as an MC Joe,
So your trajectory, your progression from represent the jealous ones
envy was like phenomenal? What did you do in terms
of stepping your tell you what happens that from that
(36:32):
first album the second album, I'm gonna tell you what happens, right,
So I came Uh. I came out at a time
where um, Flow Joe went number one in the country.
But if you really listen to Flow Joe, I'm going
(36:52):
bush it, check it, watch it. Watch your shooting is
getting hectic. I can't vibes like count Basie, I said, right,
So it's like it's like it was a B C
D E D F G. It really wasn't lyrical, It
wasn't nothing. And so you love the song. You love
(37:15):
the fact that I was certified by the digging in
the crate scoop. You love my history. When you when
you when you called up your cousins in New York,
it was like no, no, no, some boys is laying
it down like they So you was intrigued. You was intrigued.
It's similar to like Young Jeez with BMP when he
came out and he was like, oh, he's part of it.
(37:36):
So it was all that, But I really wasn't dope.
So there's a guy who came out. His name was
Nas and I remember sitting in the car show base
came together. You had the beam up. He was like, yo,
Joe getting the car come down. So I got in
(37:57):
the car and when he pressed played and that, it
was like sneak oozy on the holland then my nie,
I can lie in on that way and come in
the bag half man, half abasing. But it when I'm like,
I was like, it was the most incredible ship I
ever heard in my life. But at the same time,
it was almost like a morgue or a cemetery for mcs,
(38:19):
like Fat Joe. It was like, if you do not
stand your ship up, it's over. It's low jaw one
and done. So I don't think mcs do that anymore.
They don't. So he he pushed the game. He elevated
the game to a point of where you couldn't get
(38:41):
away with busted checking. So I had to study him.
I studied them my mind and listened to that tape.
If I say twenty million times, it's not it's not enough,
and then reasonable doubt came out and all that. So
everybody was like, so when reasonable doubt came out, I
could relate to that more because he was talking that
drug deal of life and where I came from. And
(39:03):
I said, oh, ship, we could do that, like we
could talk that job. So then when I came hustling
is the key to success. Money is the key to sex.
You don't get wet. The game sequel played the What's
for the Cats? Yeah, So then I was like, oh, ship,
(39:25):
I could be me like I could, I could really
save my life. So let me ask all right, since
you mentioned him, because I feel like one of your
most underrated bangers, the incredible was No, was John Blaze?
(39:49):
Oh yeah? John Blade? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. I mean when
Cosmic Cosmic keV played that in Philly Man. He he
rarely is one of those I'll play something three times
in a row, like the way that from Master Flex does,
like I gotta play it over. But the day that
John Blaze came out with you and NAS was like that,
(40:11):
that was that was a moment. So I mean, how
did you feel at that moment when when that when
that was actual? Even before I asked that, I was that.
Let me let me go back, because I feel like
your your moment of really stepping it up for me
was who shot you? I'm sorry, I shot you? I
(40:32):
shot you? I shot you? How did that? How did
that even come to be? Because for me, like the
way you endo that do you think you're talking to
do we CRYSA so sad like that? I felt like
that was your Domino Slam moment. Domino, So what how
(40:54):
did that? How did that story? How how did that
come to be? First of all, ll cool, Jay is
my idol, and uh, I've never backed down. I've never
backed down for competition. I've never backed down to this day.
And you could be the greatest rap on the earth
and I'm gonna go to the tour with them and
never been scared and actually elevates me. Like you ever
(41:17):
see like Golden State when they were the best team
in the world. They'll play the whackings team and then
they'll play whack like them. But when they when there's
a big game, it brings me up. If I get
on song with jay Z or nots or whether I'm
going like I'm going on on another level, I couldn't
wait for this moment. So I'm working on my second album.
(41:40):
The track masters come in the studio we we had
in New York, Battery students something and they come in
and they were like, Yo, it was like what you work?
I said my album. I played him a couple of
joints off my album was like, yo, we need to
ask a lefty. And that's when I came in with that,
(42:02):
who the fund do you think you're talking to? I
play dudes, I's played cruise looking at Joey Krat motherfucker's
me like racket for New York. Come with me, bo bring.
That was my moment. Was it all the next level?
(42:23):
Were you all doing it at the same time or
was it just piecemeal like was Foxy? There was John
John Blaze? No, no, no, John Blaze. I did with everybody,
but but uh that No, they just gave me the
beat and I just went from mine, you know, because
that's that's the risky thing about doing posse cuts, because
(42:47):
I know oftentimes and I watched this a lot with
terk whenever people ask him, you know, to do stuff
or whatever. Recently, Uh, Terek's on a point with Eminem,
and I mean on on Eminem's records like a posse cut,
and was kind of salty because he had his joint first.
(43:12):
It was like, man, I don't want to be the
first guy to submit the verse because then they'll you know,
no one wants to be the first guy. So I
always wanted to know how are posse cuts organized, like
do you hear everyone else's ship? Or I don't do that.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie to you quest man,
(43:33):
Fat Joe so underrated is? I don't know how to
explained it to you. Man, I don't listen to nobody's ship.
I don't listen to nobody's ship. I go in there
and I'll tell them play the music. And when they
play the music, I write the ship right in they
face with my own flow, and I go in there.
You know what's the hook? Ohm? I need to beat?
(43:54):
I need to hook. The hook is this I? And
now I know where we're going with it. Woman, I'm
gonna just go crazy. I never changed my verse. I
never like I don't know, you know, I'm just not
on it like that. I just you know me, I
fight for my life every time. So every time I write,
(44:15):
I write like just the last song I might ever
do in my life, like I might die to day.
And that's just my strategy. That's always been my strategy.
So that means I give it, uh two thousand percent
every time I wrap. So I'm never worried like that.
But you gotta treat every verse, I say, you gotta
treat every verse like it's the first time somebody might
(44:37):
be hearing you. You know what I'm saying, and that
that's kind of been my lesson. This is moving along,
you know, every time. And you also got to know
that any time a young artist access you to get
on it, you know, they want to give you a
can of what pass. So you really gotta pay attention
(44:57):
and spit that ship because you know that's how it is.
It's just like boxing. Motherfucker take a box in the grade.
Motherfucking Mike Tyson was killing niggas in twelve seconds, but
when he was already thirty some years old looking for
that check, they was using them to beat him up
and look like there's somebody ill, you know, And that's
pretty much what a young dude to do. If if
(45:19):
a hot young dude says, crack, let's get on the record,
like I did two songs with the Griselda Boys, I
went crazy. It's I'm not gonna let them written me down.
I'm just not like I'm I'm gonna you know, I'm
gonna go for mine crazy. I mean, the only person
I let my guard down with and she don't like
me to say this is She's the only person I
(45:40):
don't feel competition with. She's the only person I don't
care if she beats me. You know, I rap rap
and let her. I want her to always shine no
matter what. You know. That's just to say, why Remy?
Why is it? What is it about Remy? Because you
didn't rhyme with other brothers, other sisters. Just she's my
sister for ll like you know what I mean. So
(46:01):
I do want her to I want her to sound
great anyway. I'm not talking about I'm taking it easy
on Remy. I'm not saying I'm spaking my best ship.
But I don't get mad if Remy beats me on
the She's We did that remix with jay Z. She
went eight ship bro like bo nanas. I was happy. Joe, Joe,
(46:24):
can you just tell us the first time you heard Remy? Like,
what was it? When did she stop you in your tracks? Unreal? Uh?
Punt said, uh, y'all want you to meet somebody, and
and he brought her to the studio and she came in.
I never ya, she's so skinny. She had the leather
(46:47):
vests and uh and we played the beat and she
rapped for like ten minutes straight the air Bubbazine and
Sneakers in Trouble. I'm RYA's my brother this and I
was so amazed, but I was jealous and I was
mad because I was like, damn puned discovered that she's
gonna be puned artist, like I wish she was my artist.
(47:10):
So I was mad. I still quiet, punk, conceited. I
was mad. She tells me the story. She says, Yo, bro,
you ice grilled me for like ten minutes. I was
really mad. I was in there like, yo, shit, I
wish I discovered it. Why she ain't come up to me?
And then Um when we walked out the studio, pun
hugs me and says, I know, don't worry, she's gonna
(47:30):
be your artists. Don't worry she's your artists. How pun
your pussy? How did you want pun? Um? I went
to a boat dalla uh right in my projects that
I always used to go to, and uh, they was
just out there. It was him and like three other
guys freestylad. So I came out with a diet pepsi.
(47:52):
I had a diet pepsi and I looked at him
and I um, and I was like, yo, what is
this fatteris spanished, dude gonna spit about, Like I just
what the fuck is this neiggy gonna talk about? And
and so I walked up. He said, chill, y'all, chill, chill, chill.
(48:14):
He was obviously the leader. And um so he starts
wrapping and he's like that, that that and that and
that stopped like a right like he stopped the car
set pull the moon out the sky and blow the
sun away. Me and my nigg is playing hardcore. Liver said,
(48:37):
I'm feeling breaking throw my throw, but I gotta do it.
So but I was like I could not take it.
I ran to the passenger side. I had a white
legs l s rowharnet and I opened the door, said
please get inside. He uh we locked the door and
(49:06):
and that that was just it was just uh, it
was just beautiful because I'm I'm the youngest brother. I'm
the youngest kid in my family. But I never had
a little brother and I never had the big brother.
I realized Poem was like, Yo, you're gonna be my
(49:26):
big brother. You're gonna be my big brother. I'm but
be brother, and you know you gotta have my back.
And I said I got your back, and then he
started telling me about his life were real personal, deep
sit you know, pumps, homeless, growing up, you know, and
nobody gave a funk about him. And he told me
(49:46):
all that just just ripped it up. And me coming
from the streets before I even wrapped the rap ship
is even faker. But coming from the streets, uh, where
I see men that you know, killers and murderers and
all types of people. I had never met a person
who could just open up himself and his pain. First
(50:08):
time I met him and dead and I was just like,
now I love this dude. Man. I funk with him
on another level and and and that's how I met punk. Wow.
You know, um Bill uh unpaid Bill here and I
are a part of uh the team uh that uh
(50:33):
worked on Hamilton's. And I know that. You know, anytime
lynnon Manuel does an interview about who is lyrical inspiration
was to put Hamilton's together, he won't hesitate to say
like how important Big Pun's lyrical style was just on
(50:57):
his life and just you know, cult really and all
those things like oh for sure, you know, I almost
wonder like what Hamilton's would just be a regular Broadway
show if it was to this day, to this day,
Little Italy is one of his favorite Yeah yeah, because
(51:18):
internal rhyme was always is always his thing and everything,
and so that always we used to listen to that
a lot. That record was on auto auto spin at
our house. That that was that was his hero, like
he will he I mean, you know, big punt little
did we know that we read or too middleman who
didn't do did really? Yeah? Yeah, man, you know, uh
(51:39):
you know, dead in the middle a little literally almost
wasn't Dead in the middle of a little little so
like pun was so advanced that it was a joke
to him. Dead in the middle of a Little Italy
was actually a joke, he would say, like he would
have he put it on the album two, packing the
back in the back of the ACTA ask you what,
(52:03):
because to me, that is my favorite. That is one
of my favorite skits on a hip hop record, only
because I know I know that he was re enacting
the Scarface scene where he lets the one guy go
and the one guys like thanks, I appreciate it, and
he runs off like but literally, what what was what
(52:24):
was the deal with packing the back in the back
of the act For one now that we're floating in
this error. We were unconscious. We was like, we was numbed.
We were crazy, man, we was just fucking crazy. I
don't know how to explain it to you and stuff that.
If you think about regular people, I thought, you know,
(52:45):
when I grew up, Uh, I grew up seeing death.
Uh maybe I had forty guys I grew up with.
Thirty eight of them got killed real ship before they
years old twenty one. So and when I meet regular
people who didn't have friends dying at sixteen, so I'm like,
(53:07):
then I started saying, like, damn, some of the ship
we don't set the music, like motherfucker's like with a
normal life. Is like, you know, what the fuck is
wrong with them? Because he's ain't packing the back in
the back of the act. It's about machine gun packing
the back in the back of the act. Pack in
the back and uh so that was the joke. And
then in the middle of it literally was the other joke.
(53:28):
Then in the middle of a little literally so when
we did the song together, I said, Yo, you gotta
put that debt. I swear to God on everything, you
gotta put that debt in the middle. He was like, yo,
that ship whacked. Maybe that ship is a joke. That's it,
I said, punned that ship will below their minds off.
He was like, no, I'm telling you that ship regular
that ship, but that's a joke. And they and I
(53:50):
gassed him to put it in. That motherfucker and man,
you know he was he was. You know these guys born.
This guy's born. Jay Z was born, Nas was born,
Eminem was born, Big Pump was born. Uh, I'm trying
(54:13):
to think of others. I guess rock Kim was born.
There there is no other job description for these people.
They were born to do that. Like, there's just no
That is the DNA. Their birth was on that puma.
Fall asleep, wake up and be like, give me the book, Twin,
give me the book. This crazy because I got paper
and pain right here, he said. He goes give me
(54:35):
the book, Give me the book, Twin, Give me the
book Twin, And I give him the book. He write
a whole sword down. He thought about it in his
dreams and write the whole song down. It's crazy, man.
It was that the guy was a genius. It's just
no way around it. And his breath control was kind
of like crazy, I don't understand how he did all
that and then still col You know, he would do
(55:01):
it on stage. You know, point was different, like you know, uh,
you know how you see uh boxes. It's crazy. I
keep referring back to boxing, but you know how you
see boxes. It's so nice that nobody wants to fight him,
so they can't really get a real fight because you
know you'll get knocked out. Pun would invite every rapper
to the studio to do a song with him, and
(55:23):
no one would show up. So we would drive around
me and Punt that he would see like a siph
of upcoming rappers battling each other, and he would get
out the car double Platinum rich and battle the whole cipher.
Like you know, nobody want to smoke with Punt. I
(55:44):
don't know how to explain it to you. In no way,
shape or form. Did anybody want to smoke with this guy?
They can say whatever, forget him, whatever you want, but
nobody when he was alive, people were going, don't let
him on, let him on. Formats of Flex used to
have these ciphers. Every week you would bring rappers up there.
(56:06):
So one week is Nori up there? Cameron? Uh Nori
camera and I think DMX and somebody else right, and
Punty here is it and starts racing down from the
Bronx to hot ninety seven. So Puntish calling this the
hot line. Punt course, Flex picks up. He's like, yo, yo, yo, yo,
(56:28):
you gotta let me be up there. You gotta let
me up there. You gotta let me be up there.
So Flex said, there's a true story. Flex said he
looked at everybody up there and was like, yo, punt
is on his way, he said. They was like no,
like like, don't let don't left him on this motherfucker please.
(56:48):
So the punt the ridside ninety seven, he's calling Flex
a million times. Flex, don't pick up the phone. They've
freestyling up there. So punt course me, Yo, twig this
thig a Flex more me up there, this this that.
So then later on I got with uh with with
with with with Flex, and I asked him the truth.
I was like, your Flex, why are you in that
(57:09):
point up there? He said, Yo, They were scared to death.
They didn't want to let pun up there on that cipher.
They don't want him up there. And we're talking about
big guys Cameroon Dmxnory. At that time, they was like,
I don't know, don't let that boy up if you're
gonna come up in there, but that it is. I
(57:30):
gotta go love y'all man the part to whatever you
Want Man, I'm here yo, Pa Joe. What's Love Supreme
(57:53):
is a production of I Heart Radio. M M for
more podcasts for My Heart Radio. This is the I
R Radio app Apple podcast. Wherever you listen to your
favorite chills m h M
Of course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.
I'm your host. Quest Love with Me is like yeah
quarantine from the West Coast. Hello, Hello, Hey everybody, I
miss you and hug you. Sucker Steve from the top
(00:23):
of his building in Manhattan a tree dish Central. Were
you at pay Bill Westchester? Okay, so I can visit? Yeah,
come on over, hang out with freaking crack. That's the
whole thing here. Don't improve me that were you broadcasting
(00:44):
from now Broth from the crib Riley, North Carolina? Okay,
keeping it real, ladies and gentlemen, This this episode has
been long, long overdue. Um. You know it's it's it's
a rarity that anyone in hip hop culture, UM can
(01:04):
have sustainability and change with the times and still stay themselves.
Uh facts in this culture without hitting a landmine. And
our guest today, uh is I mean? I call him
Teflon Joe, I mean yo yo. Me and my buddies
(01:24):
have a saying if if a nuclear bomb went off,
the last two rappers standard would be Fat Joe and
Busta Ryan straight up, straight up y'all brothers. Don survive everything, man,
Ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, let's let's welcome uh the One
and Only, uh, the the the God fat exactly exactly,
(01:49):
Don Cardigina to love Supreme so much? How are you
making out? How are you making out in this current environment? Sir?
I mean, I'll just you know, I'm happy to be home, man.
I'm happy to be at home. Man. I've been uh
on the road for twenty five years, man, and the
fact that I'm able to be with the family and
(02:11):
spend time at home with my daughter, my wife and everybody. Man,
I'm actually enjoying it. To be honest with you, we're
is home currently? Your your Jersey resident right now? Correct? No? No, no, no,
I live in Miami. In Miami for like seventeen years.
I've always known you as I'm sorry, um, I've always
(02:31):
known you as a a Jersey resident. I didn't know
that you moved to Miami. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I lived
in the Bronx my whole life, and then I moved
to Jersey. My wife forced me to move to Jersey
because I ain't want to lead the Bronx and she
was like, if you don't move I'm leaving you. So
I had to go to Jersey, which was the smartest
thing I ever did in my life. So when I
(02:53):
went to Jersey, I finally heard birds chirping and middle
kids playing in the street. And then um, eventually a
one time, I got so frustrated with like the New
York hip hop scene that I moved down to Miami.
And that's when, you know, that's around the time I
met DJ Khalid before he was you know, when he
was just underground DJ and cool and dre and just
(03:16):
the love down here, the camaraderie and the love was
just so much different from what what's going on in
New York. So I had came down here for a
fresh start, and uh, I been done here ever since.
Around what time was that when you when you went
to Miami, Man, that's like seventeen years ago. You know,
I always said, you know, uh, one day, you know
(03:39):
when I started, I started out digging into crates and
if you go to them early videos, if you would
go engine engine number nine on that you and I'm
one of the guys jumping in the background. I was
in everybody's video. Yes, I was in everybody's video. Everybody
was my video. We worked with each other. We didn't
(04:01):
look at each other as competition. It was all love
when I came up. And then when some money came
into play, everybody started having their own click and everybody
thought they was bigger than the other one. And that's
how New York got separated. And then one day I
was in my home in New Jersey and I was
fed up with it already. If I was listening to
(04:22):
the radio and Uh I heard Uh Cameron said he'll
smack the kofi or for Nazi's head. And that's when
I told my wife to pack up the events. We out,
we out of here. We can't be over here like this.
This I don't know what's going on with New York
kip hop. And we came down here and we started
(04:42):
uh the Miami movement, like with the DJ Khali, with
the pit Bull, the Rick Ross, the Cooler Dre. You know,
we sent it off down the end and made that camaraderie.
And then when uh little Wayne, when when Katrina happened,
he came down to Miami, him and bird Man, we
embraced them, and that's when you get all those records
we was doing, like taking over Brown paperback. Yeah, so
(05:08):
in the in the Bronx. Um, how would you describe
your childhood for those that don't know your history in
the Bronx. Well, you from Philly, right, but there's there's
different parts of Philly. There's North Philly, South Philly, Allegheny,
(05:28):
German Town, this, this that. So what I'm trying to
make reference to that is he's from North Carolina, this, Faithville,
this Greensboro, this Charlotte's. I'm from the Bronx in the
part where hip hop was created. Right, So what I'm
trying to tell you is there's many parts of the Bronx.
(05:49):
So me as a little kid, I was watching Mellie
Mel and Grandmaster Flash pick up games of basketball against
little I see Little Rod we see Uh you know
I grew up in like literally so if you look
at so privileged, So Ruby D who's the first Lave team?
(06:10):
No MC, he used to have a softball team. These
guys never lost. I used to watch some play softball.
I used to go to every jam my my my brother, Uh,
my brother was the way I fell in love with
hip hop. My brother used to go to all the
jams and bring me back to Cassette tapes from all
the Zulu Nation anniversaries or Cool Hurt or whatever. And
(06:32):
I used to listen to it so much I thought
I was actually in there, like give me like back
up from the ropes, back up from the ropes. Then
they playing Mary Marriage, Why you get your badge of
it on? That funk is on ah, and then they
come back with I don't know if you've been told,
(06:53):
but Santa al Claus is a black man. I'm like, man,
I'm like, I'm I'm like, I'm in my room listening
to the cassette tapes like oh my fucking yad and
just because I was too small to go and then
when they did it outside, I would go to outside.
So I was privileged to be born in the soil,
(07:14):
like you know, just no other way to explain it
to you, Like I was blessed as a hip hop fan,
as a hip hop fan, not just as the rapper
or whatever. Wow. So it's as far as like it
it calling you, I mean, were you rapping early as
a kid or you just like, I'm a fan, But
(07:34):
at what point is I wanted to be Like, at
what point is it like, Okay, I want to get
involved in the culture different it was I was in.
I was the culture. When I'm trying to tell you
I break dads, I wrote Graffiti terroraor squad as a
graffiti crew started out off Graffiti Terror Squad where all
(07:56):
over the bronx, on the walls, on the train. When
I got hold up, I would bring it out my house.
I'm talking too much in front of my daughter right now,
but I would break out my house when my parents
were sleep, go hit the trains and dangerous ship like
cops chasing us under the third round or like crazy
ship come back to my house. My sister would open
(08:19):
the door like five in the morning, like damn man,
like you mut and then you know, when I wake up,
you know it was time for school. But right in
graffiti but rapping, I wanted to be like my brother.
My brother was you know, he used to wrap, and
I wanted to be like my brother, and so I
started to wrap. So I was writing maybe y'all nine
ten years old eight nine ten years old and my
(08:40):
mother's uh table where everybody was like what type of
what am I doing? And I'm like, you know, I
want to wrap your ten years old? Oh my name,
my my, my first name was uh little pop, little
pop and uh and uh we were saying ship like
(09:03):
Joey Rockwell and all that. And I had a little
little fake rounds like sneakers and cheap you know something
you could fill every rock you can, like like I
was just you know, learning the game. But you know,
uh yeah it was real. So as far as like
(09:25):
in in the area that you grew up, were there
any other notable hip hop luminaries that we wouldn't know
him today? Like were you everyone year old or like yes, yes,
So what happened was so as I told you, hip hop, whippy,
(09:45):
whip wop, star Ski, all of them living my block.
But when the guy who inspired me to rappers lord
for ness, so I was already in the streets hustling
doing all types of ship, you know, be in you know,
a product of my environment in the worst way. And
Finesse he used to sell us papers. So back in
(10:07):
the days, they would bring the newspaper. So Finesse where
by the newspaper at the store for a quarter where
he was selling in the building for a dollar. He
was an entrepreneur, so he would walk up and down
the project building going pay peeper and then my mom's
will give me a dollar. I go see Finesse he
makes not his real ship, and then he would make
(10:28):
seventy five sets and then give it back. But Finesse
would always something like, Yo, Joey, I'm gonna be a rapper.
I'm gonna get on and I'll be like, yeah right,
I locked the door, like man, he's so fully ship
and uh. And one day, one day I'm just listening
to the radio read alert. He's just playing the funky Technician.
(10:50):
He's playing all the finession. I'm like, no way, fines
made it. And that gave me, uh, sometimes you gotta
see it. So that gave me the proof that we
can actually make it out of the hood and actually
become professional artists. And that's when I started, you know, uh,
(11:10):
really believe it. We could do something. And then also
Diamond Dan Diamond used to write graffiti with me, and
he would tell me all the time, Yo, Joe, you're
gonna go to jail, You're gonna get killed. You out
here doing crazy ship. Huh that bro, why don't you
put all the ship you do in the streets into
your music. And actually, even though I had money at
the time, actually crazy money he took me to the
(11:33):
studio and paid for the session Diamond to like, you know,
get me off the streets. And so we went in
there and we and we made the demos and then
uh and one of them was Flowed Joe, my first single.
So I went, am I talking too long? I don't
know perfect? This is perfect? Okay? So we went We
(11:57):
made like three demos in that first session. One of
them was Flowed Joe. So I had when I wanted
to earn even though I grew up with show business
a g. I grew up with Diamond, they were already on,
they were already on. I wanted to earn my spot.
So I went to Amateur Night at the Apollo and
I performed that Amateur Night, and I wanted four weeks
(12:21):
in a row. I got a question. Yeah, yeah, that's
how I got on. I got a question because we
rarely have actual Apollo Amateur Night contestants on the show, people,
people who survived the apology is the truth? What is
the true way to rid the system so that you
(12:41):
win Amateur Night the Apollo? Is it the people you
bring with you or like, I can't tell you rig
I I asked some people in there, but it's the
power is like a stadium compared to the people. I
might have grown. Twenty people came to see Fat Joe,
but it's it's two thousands, three thousands easy. But I'm
gonna tell you something, and this is where, this is
(13:04):
where no one can ask me if there's a god.
You understand what I'm saying, because as I went back recently,
maybe maybe a year ago, I really thought about that Apollo,
Like I said, are you winning, Apolo? What do you do?
So I went in there. It was a hundred fifty
groups and I remember looking at everybody saying, they don't
have a chance. I don't know what they're doing here.
(13:27):
I'm gonna take this ship. Now. What's crazy is if
you want to talk about the elephant in the room,
I was the only Latino in black column with a no.
And then so when I think about it, how it
(13:48):
went down. I just went out there. I had two girls,
three girls from my projects, Michelle and Barbara and DC,
and they came out with me and they were saying
behind me doing some fly ship and I was walking
through rapidly. But oh, the people just went crazy. They
couldn't hear a bar or nothing. They just they fucking
(14:09):
went crazy. And every time I came out, they just
went crazy. And it wasn't because of my lyrics. It
wasn't because it's they just went crazy. I don't and
I say that was God in the room. He said,
this is how are you gonna do it? So I
went four weeks I met Red Alert. Red Alert was
the biggest DJ in the planet Earth. It was only
(14:33):
two DJs at the time. They were considered mainstream. It's
Red Alert and Mr Magic. Mr Magic. Y'all m the
magic recipe. So Red Alert said, Yo, do you have
a demo? Can you give me a demo? So I
gave him flow joke. About a month later, I had
the flu. I was in the projects laying down and
(14:53):
the ship came on and I jumped to the ceiling.
How high I jumped from the flu. I put the
peak on the window and the projects and told everybody,
y'o rather learn playing my ship. He playing everybody going
crazy in front of the building. And then he kept
playing that for like close to like eight months every week.
(15:14):
And then Chris lightly rest in Peace came to the
hood way. I hustled my block where I hustle and
told me, y'all you fat Joe. I was like yeah.
I was like yeah. I was like he said, you
know why am I saying yeah? You baby Chris And
he was like, y'all, I want to sign you on
the record deal like I think you could be a superstar.
And I signed in the middle of the street and
(15:36):
you signed instantly the Relativity. Yeah, I don't have no lawyer.
And now I was I was a drug dealer. Uh,
what do you want me to do? No? I was
just like at that was speedy. So wait that and
that answers my second question. So that's definitely you saying
(15:58):
you talking about on Diamond's Uh, I am in every
ad lib on that album. That's my claim to make,
my fucking claim to Hey, you talking about your ship.
(16:19):
Oh that's you, you're over. Yeah, I am the ad
lite every song I dare you the acts Diamond, I am.
That's my claim to face. I was there for that
whole album, the whole process. Like it's like confession, Like
there was a point in my life where you know,
(16:42):
there was enough based on my voice to be to
be curson and really intimidating people. So shut up, like
you like you're like you know, I swear it got
like every time post nine three and I'm saying, fuck
you talking about I'm literally just echoing you talking about
(17:09):
Yo chill that is. That is my favorite Curson or
records ever ever. But you were Were you not um
involved on the Jazz J record at all? The compilation
that Jazz J No No no I was. I was
from Diamond d On but I knew Jazz Jazz. Did
my whole first album in Jazz J studio, But I'm
(17:31):
not that. I think the compilation was before me. So
when when did the official like the uniting of digging
in the crates? First? Of like was it then? I
think I always digging in the crates. I'm from the project,
so I was digging in the crates. There's no way
(17:52):
to explain it to you. Like I grew up with Showbis,
grew up with Diamond, grew up with Finesse. Hey I'm wrapping,
I'm digging in the crates. I was, you know, getting
a lot of money in the streets. And I was
at first the fat Spanish guy that stands on stage
behind Lord Fernas and Diamond D And You're looking like
(18:12):
who the fund is the d boys standing behind these motherfucker's.
I stout with the convertible bends outside like motherfucker's is
like that must be the big boy from the block.
And so people knew me from that. But I was
always digging in the crates. I don't think there was
anitie annoying team, you know. I do remember we was
(18:32):
at the Fever and the Bronx when I got acts,
could we make O C digging in the crates? And
O C was from Brooklyn and I was like, hell, yeah, man,
he had he had to join. You lack the minerals environments.
I am then the size yeah like he was. I
was like, yo, yeah, Tim's up. I was like, uh,
(18:53):
we better make that boy digging in the crates and
and and so I remember that it was Big l
around this time, or Big I was there ready. So
so Finesse have met Big El doing the Big Il
used to battle everybody on on the all of course
the street from Apollo every day after school. Big I
(19:13):
was just killing dudes. Finesse met him, put him on
the remix and yes you may remix. I was at
the show the first time Big L ever at a show,
and he destroyed that motherfucker. And I was like, oh
ship and they was like yo, we signed you know
big Al. I was like, big motherfucker dr TC he was.
(19:35):
He was incredible. It was like it was like a
Finesse on steroids. It was like, first of all, to me,
Finesse is the best uh punchline lyricists at the time.
And then he found like he he found the Bravo
of the Superman like Big else. It was. It was
a no brainer. So as far as the environment is
(19:58):
now and what you're used to like when you're doing concerts,
I know that it was like night and day with
with with the twenty five year laps in between. But
what were your early year, early shows like promoting on
the road and like back in ninety two, like from nine,
(20:19):
Like what was that like back then? In the very
you ever heard of Steve Lobel? You know Steve Lobell.
Steve Lobell was our product manager at Relativity. He had
Fat Joe and Big Punk and the rest of the
terrorist squad in the van driving through the whole America
because at the time I was scared to fly, so
(20:42):
we drove everywhere to sew we we drove to Chicago, Cabrini,
greens Uh with Pink House d J Pink We drove
all around this country eating McDonald's, and we was eating McDonald's.
And even when flow Joe was like Clow Joe was
number one in the country, it went't number one. And
(21:03):
I was still getting like four hundred dollars of hundred
dollars to show. It wasn't no real money at the time,
so it was like a struggle, you know, to get
to the next level. But I had left like a
fairy tale, and this is no bullshit. I had left
the drug game alone when I signed to start rapping,
and I refused to go back, even though my friends
(21:26):
were still making literally millions of dollars. They was in
bent Leaves, they was in all that ship. I wouldn't
go back. If somebody got robbed in the crew, I
wouldn't go back. If anything, I would not go in
there because I knew this was my way out, is
the way I had to go. So I took a
real pay cut, so I would do stuff like not
only you know, do my shows, but then um for
(21:51):
promote parties, so I would poor care Arres Caress probably
came and performed for me twenty times for free in
the Bronx, So everybody had a I mean like, yeah,
I gave Biggie his first show. I gave him his
first show ever. Yeah. I gave him a g and
the bottle of My Way and he came and I'm
talking about party and bullshit just came out. It's like
(22:12):
the first show. B I g that. Joe and I
was just promoting parties, making a couple of grands on
the side and doing my show. You know, it was real.
It was a real struggle. Yeah. I remember an episode
(22:34):
of Yom TV raps where you had um like your
own clothing joint or like you like one of the
first dudes to have your your venture. And I think
I was j J five sixty. I think you know everything.
I remember this. He had the jacket. So what happened.
(22:58):
What happened was and I'm gonna take you some real ship.
I've never said before, but uh, it was probably the
first or the second. I don't know if WHU Tank
had their their brand first. It was one of the
but I remember we was making easy So we were
making these coats and these snarkles. Uh, the leather jackets
(23:19):
almost like the avrix Is and and I remember going
to a party and Puffy and jay Z walking into
the bathroom. I was in the bathroom where f J
five sixty snorkles on and I was like, oh ship
there was like yeah, we're rocking your ship, and I'm like,
(23:40):
all right, cool yo. But the business partners that I had,
they were really really cheat They didn't want to really
mask deduce. They didn't really really uh want to market
and promote, and we lost our shot. We could have
made hundreds of millions dollars with that land, with that line.
It was ahead of his time. Yeah, to visit that,
(24:01):
Like y'all remember you and Freddie were like live at
that story and like, yo, I want to go over
there and see that joint, Like I always wanted to
see it and never knew what happened to it. Um,
I was just gonna ask. I just I was just
kind of curious, since you were talking about you signed
your deal in the middle of the street. You were
new to the story. You didn't know anything some of
those hard lessons that you had to learn on your way.
(24:23):
Because now you are, you are the businessman. You know
this business in and out. But before we were like
a couple of them hard lessons that you had to learn. Well,
I really, I really ain't gonna lie to you. I
did not get jerked by Chris lightly in the middle
of the street. So I was lucky, good, No, No,
I was lucky. He did not jerk me. He was
fared with me. Uh forever Relativity was good to be um.
(24:47):
But I did get jerked from my publishing. So I
had signed a deal with this guy. His name is
jelly Bean beneath. Yeah. Yeah, So he was signing. He
was doing music form for McDonald and all he hit me.
(25:07):
He hit me with the YO we both lock teen
No this this bullshit. And then I met him in
I signed this publishing. He gave me fifty dollars when
I signed. He's been robbing me from that publishing ever since.
And I still ain't see him in like twenty five years.
(25:28):
And uh, you know, and so we've been trying to
get some type of royalty accounting or whatever. I didn't
have my publishing back till around leaned back. But anything
before there was anything I did, the man robbed me
from my publishing. Real talk, oh ship damn Benita, Yeah
yeah Donald pass my good old lot t though, my
(25:52):
good old lot though. Brother, can you talk to like?
Can you talk to her? Like? Latino music and hip
hop we're meeting at that time. I mean behind you
the giant picture of Factor of Love, Oh, the king
of what's your name? When we asked that question, I'm
(26:13):
Bill Sherman. Yo, Bill, let me tell you something, Bill.
Hip hop is black and Latino music from day one.
So if you go to the very inception of hip
hop music, the very first block party jam, you will
see the Latinos in there and the blacks in there,
(26:34):
and they break dancing and they write and refeat. Latino
just break dancing and write and refeat. So the black
guys is mostly DJ and I'm seeing and asked the
real focal point on it. But if you go to
day one and you look in the archives of hip hop,
it's always been black and Latino music. Was it like that?
(26:55):
I'm sorry, Bill, but for you, like in the house,
like was it like was for me? Personally? I grew
I grew up black, so like I'm a black Latino
Now it's real. It's now. You gotta that. Everybody in
the world don't understand what that means. I grew up black.
(27:16):
So like, uh, where where I grew up was nine
nine point nine percent black? And that Joe had the
hairs like the Beatles with green eyes and thought he
was black because there wasn't the world. So all my
girlfriends growing up was black. Me black. If you look
(27:38):
at the class pictures as me and thirty black people,
like who they they? I think they said, uh, the
killing the Malcolm X. Who killed Malcolm X? They showed
his class picture at one point he was the only
black guy. It was not for white people with the
whole picture when he was growing up, and that was
that Joe, And that was that Joe. So you said,
(28:00):
like the Beatles, you mean my pad or hippie Arabic. Yeah,
like this, look I put up a picture maybe like
two weeks ago. I found one um with my hair
like the Beatles, bro like the fucking Beatles, like mushroom. Yeah.
And so what happened was nobody told me, yo, you're
(28:20):
not black. I don't know how to explain it to y'all.
So even though my my father's Cuban and my mother's
Boter reading, you know, my mother speaks English fluently. Everything.
You know, she grew up on all the Gladys Night
all over the Franklin's, you know my house. Every day.
We we didn't play South, We played I Will Survive.
(28:42):
Oh oh no, fuck out the door, like that's the
ship we was playing. And and it wasn't until I
went to high school and there was no social media.
It wasn't even a rap video at that time. So
when I when when when I went to high school,
I met a friend of mine. His name was Charlie.
(29:05):
He lived on the other side of the Brooks and
when he took me to his hood, I never knew
there was so much Puerto Ricans in the Bronx. And
this is like fifteen minutes away. So just like me,
I met the one black guy. Yeah, then I met
the one black guy who thought he was Puerto Rican
in that neighborhood. Ship he thought he was Puerto Rican, right,
(29:35):
So when I went there and I started going to
Charlie's house, that's when his mother was like, yo, you're
not black, and she starts s flaiming Petla com ball
uh group orn all the South Side, you know, all
the legends, and I'm like, oh ship. So that's when
I got put onto Spanish music and more so Spanish pride,
(30:00):
areted finding myself in my culture. Every window I looked
at had Puerto Rican flags. I'm talking about fourteen flights.
Every window had Puerto Rican flags and they was bumping
that south Side ship out the window. They were like this.
So that's when I started to learn about Hector Lava
and South southe music and that Latino heritage. And then
from there I just wanted to learn more and more
(30:21):
and more more and uh and that's where we at yo,
not to fast forward, but just I gotta tell you,
based off of that, that's why it was so good
to see that episode of She's Got to Have It
when y'all went back to Puerto Rico and really just
broke down the connection of like the African diaspora to
Puerto Rico and how we are all black and how
(30:41):
they you know, it was just it was perfection. That
must have felt real good. All right, now, all right,
who are you channeling with with your voice bidding? Like
(31:04):
that was my favorite character from that show? All right?
Thank god? But listen, let me tell you now. I
mean a lot of people I met had boss with
a bunch of actors that say, yo, man, you killed
that Ship. I know hard. I'm gonna tell you the truth, y'all. Um,
(31:28):
that was like the four tee member of Woo Tank.
So they said, they said, this guy's got this guy
got money, got his own strip club, but he stuck
in the past. He's still wear Tim's and baggy pants
and hoodies and sniffs a little colt and and and
then I was like, oh, Ship, that's like the long
(31:50):
lost member of Woo Tank and that's whoy model when
he went after I came up with that whole character
like if you know he was a member of who
thank toll me? That little shows when he win, I
know who the fun is there, you know. And that's
how I feel when a lot of times when I
get around the wood Tank because they all got money,
but they'd be like, it's still not three not fault yo,
(32:15):
straight up, Pelly Pelly Jacket is Pelly Tams. I'm like, yall,
like you thinking, didn't get the memo, Like it's like,
you know, but that's that's what winning wins based off.
Do you find do you find it? Often? Especially coming
(32:36):
from where you came from, and you need to evolve
as a person and as an artist, like outgrowing your
team life and your early adult life into where you
are now. Was it was it hard making that transition?
Like was it hard? Huh? No? No, No, I still
(32:58):
got still got your pink, Tim got, I still got Tim. No,
I got Tim dude, he was he was. And um.
First of all, the first transition was I had to go,
I'm writ in the book of my life. Now when
(33:19):
when it comes out, y'all read it and y'all get
a bigger understand it. Right. But first of all, when
I came in the game, I think the biggest transition
I had to do was, uh, leave the streets behind.
So when I came in the game, a lot of
people were scared of me hearing my reputation in the streets,
(33:40):
so they almost thought like I was gonna be the
New York Show night like extort my way or whatever.
So I had to win people's trust and never feel
like I'm some bully or um. That was the first
transition I had to make. So I actually was sitting
back looking at everybody else at the Fool when I
knew I could score wash everybody, but you know, try
(34:02):
to be a nice guy so these people won't think
I'm an animal. Right, And then we still had that
conception of keep it real, keep it real, keep it real.
So fat y'all always had to keep it real, keep
it real, even though I had records like What's love
When you saw me, I was walking in with dirty
street dudes entourage, ice drilling, did you know? So you
(34:24):
was like, yo, that we had that. I think that
was the biggest transition I had to make, and I
made it maybe in the last five years of my life,
where I said, you know, keep it real, keep it
rail is making sure my people are fed, my family
is good, and let me try to elevate and grow
(34:45):
and be this guy you see now where damn, this
guy is a nice guy, like we just never knew.
And at the time too, like I don't want like
me and Me and Biggie was really tight. Me and
Notorious Virg Biggie was really tight. I don't have to
just because at the time it wasn't cool. You felt
(35:06):
like it was the sucker to ask somebody, yo, let's
take a picture, right, So I missed out on all that, right. So,
and at that time, even if you liked each other,
everybody was ice grilling each other, right, So I had
to learn how to smile. I had to learn yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had to learn how to smile and be like
(35:28):
all right, yo, let it down, like grow, we're getting
old chill. And that was the biggest transition I had
to make from keeping it real, and I lost a
lot of money keeping it real because people really didn't
when I didn't understand this. People don't want to be
affiliated with gangsters, like you know what I mean that
Joe let alone. We heard room as he's a gangster.
(35:48):
He's coming with dirty gangsters, and you know that we
can't invite Joe. We really want Joe to come to
the ampings, but we know that guy's coming with dirty
street guys and somebody might get wrong did the bathroom
and the old White Party, So don't invite Joe. Man.
One question I always wanted to ask you. Are you
(36:10):
about to ask about who shout you? Oh? Well we
get there before we get man. So one question I
always want to ask you, just as an MC Joe,
So your trajectory, your progression from represent the jealous ones
envy was like phenomenal? What did you do in terms
of stepping your tell you what happens that from that
(36:32):
first album the second album, I'm gonna tell you what happens, right,
So I came Uh. I came out at a time
where um, Flow Joe went number one in the country.
But if you really listen to Flow Joe, I'm going
(36:52):
bush it, check it, watch it. Watch your shooting is
getting hectic. I can't vibes like count Basie, I said, right,
So it's like it's like it was a B C
D E D F G. It really wasn't lyrical, It
wasn't nothing. And so you love the song. You love
(37:15):
the fact that I was certified by the digging in
the crate scoop. You love my history. When you when
you when you called up your cousins in New York,
it was like no, no, no, some boys is laying
it down like they So you was intrigued. You was intrigued.
It's similar to like Young Jeez with BMP when he
came out and he was like, oh, he's part of it.
(37:36):
So it was all that, But I really wasn't dope.
So there's a guy who came out. His name was
Nas and I remember sitting in the car show base
came together. You had the beam up. He was like, yo,
Joe getting the car come down. So I got in
(37:57):
the car and when he pressed played and that, it
was like sneak oozy on the holland then my nie,
I can lie in on that way and come in
the bag half man, half abasing. But it when I'm like,
I was like, it was the most incredible ship I
ever heard in my life. But at the same time,
it was almost like a morgue or a cemetery for mcs,
(38:19):
like Fat Joe. It was like, if you do not
stand your ship up, it's over. It's low jaw one
and done. So I don't think mcs do that anymore.
They don't. So he he pushed the game. He elevated
the game to a point of where you couldn't get
(38:41):
away with busted checking. So I had to study him.
I studied them my mind and listened to that tape.
If I say twenty million times, it's not it's not enough,
and then reasonable doubt came out and all that. So
everybody was like, so when reasonable doubt came out, I
could relate to that more because he was talking that
drug deal of life and where I came from. And
(39:03):
I said, oh, ship, we could do that, like we
could talk that job. So then when I came hustling
is the key to success. Money is the key to sex.
You don't get wet. The game sequel played the What's
for the Cats? Yeah, So then I was like, oh, ship,
(39:25):
I could be me like I could, I could really
save my life. So let me ask all right, since
you mentioned him, because I feel like one of your
most underrated bangers, the incredible was No, was John Blaze?
(39:49):
Oh yeah? John Blade? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. I mean when
Cosmic Cosmic keV played that in Philly Man. He he
rarely is one of those I'll play something three times
in a row, like the way that from Master Flex does,
like I gotta play it over. But the day that
John Blaze came out with you and NAS was like that,
(40:11):
that was that was a moment. So I mean, how
did you feel at that moment when when that when
that was actual? Even before I asked that, I was that.
Let me let me go back, because I feel like
your your moment of really stepping it up for me
was who shot you? I'm sorry, I shot you? I
(40:32):
shot you? I shot you? How did that? How did
that even come to be? Because for me, like the
way you endo that do you think you're talking to
do we CRYSA so sad like that? I felt like
that was your Domino Slam moment. Domino, So what how
(40:54):
did that? How did that story? How how did that
come to be? First of all, ll cool, Jay is
my idol, and uh, I've never backed down. I've never
backed down for competition. I've never backed down to this day.
And you could be the greatest rap on the earth
and I'm gonna go to the tour with them and
never been scared and actually elevates me. Like you ever
(41:17):
see like Golden State when they were the best team
in the world. They'll play the whackings team and then
they'll play whack like them. But when they when there's
a big game, it brings me up. If I get
on song with jay Z or nots or whether I'm
going like I'm going on on another level, I couldn't
wait for this moment. So I'm working on my second album.
(41:40):
The track masters come in the studio we we had
in New York, Battery students something and they come in
and they were like, Yo, it was like what you work?
I said my album. I played him a couple of
joints off my album was like, yo, we need to
ask a lefty. And that's when I came in with that,
(42:02):
who the fund do you think you're talking to? I
play dudes, I's played cruise looking at Joey Krat motherfucker's
me like racket for New York. Come with me, bo bring.
That was my moment. Was it all the next level?
(42:23):
Were you all doing it at the same time or
was it just piecemeal like was Foxy? There was John
John Blaze? No, no, no, John Blaze. I did with everybody,
but but uh that No, they just gave me the
beat and I just went from mine, you know, because
that's that's the risky thing about doing posse cuts, because
(42:47):
I know oftentimes and I watched this a lot with
terk whenever people ask him, you know, to do stuff
or whatever. Recently, Uh, Terek's on a point with Eminem,
and I mean on on Eminem's records like a posse cut,
and was kind of salty because he had his joint first.
(43:12):
It was like, man, I don't want to be the
first guy to submit the verse because then they'll you know,
no one wants to be the first guy. So I
always wanted to know how are posse cuts organized, like
do you hear everyone else's ship? Or I don't do that.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie to you quest man,
(43:33):
Fat Joe so underrated is? I don't know how to
explained it to you. Man, I don't listen to nobody's ship.
I don't listen to nobody's ship. I go in there
and I'll tell them play the music. And when they
play the music, I write the ship right in they
face with my own flow, and I go in there.
You know what's the hook? Ohm? I need to beat?
(43:54):
I need to hook. The hook is this I? And
now I know where we're going with it. Woman, I'm
gonna just go crazy. I never changed my verse. I
never like I don't know, you know, I'm just not
on it like that. I just you know me, I
fight for my life every time. So every time I write,
(44:15):
I write like just the last song I might ever
do in my life, like I might die to day.
And that's just my strategy. That's always been my strategy.
So that means I give it, uh two thousand percent
every time I wrap. So I'm never worried like that.
But you gotta treat every verse, I say, you gotta
treat every verse like it's the first time somebody might
(44:37):
be hearing you. You know what I'm saying, and that
that's kind of been my lesson. This is moving along,
you know, every time. And you also got to know
that any time a young artist access you to get
on it, you know, they want to give you a
can of what pass. So you really gotta pay attention
(44:57):
and spit that ship because you know that's how it is.
It's just like boxing. Motherfucker take a box in the grade.
Motherfucking Mike Tyson was killing niggas in twelve seconds, but
when he was already thirty some years old looking for
that check, they was using them to beat him up
and look like there's somebody ill, you know, And that's
pretty much what a young dude to do. If if
(45:19):
a hot young dude says, crack, let's get on the record,
like I did two songs with the Griselda Boys, I
went crazy. It's I'm not gonna let them written me down.
I'm just not like I'm I'm gonna you know, I'm
gonna go for mine crazy. I mean, the only person
I let my guard down with and she don't like
me to say this is She's the only person I
(45:40):
don't feel competition with. She's the only person I don't
care if she beats me. You know, I rap rap
and let her. I want her to always shine no
matter what. You know. That's just to say, why Remy?
Why is it? What is it about Remy? Because you
didn't rhyme with other brothers, other sisters. Just she's my
sister for ll like you know what I mean. So
(46:01):
I do want her to I want her to sound
great anyway. I'm not talking about I'm taking it easy
on Remy. I'm not saying I'm spaking my best ship.
But I don't get mad if Remy beats me on
the She's We did that remix with jay Z. She
went eight ship bro like bo nanas. I was happy. Joe, Joe,
(46:24):
can you just tell us the first time you heard Remy? Like,
what was it? When did she stop you in your tracks? Unreal? Uh?
Punt said, uh, y'all want you to meet somebody, and
and he brought her to the studio and she came in.
I never ya, she's so skinny. She had the leather
(46:47):
vests and uh and we played the beat and she
rapped for like ten minutes straight the air Bubbazine and
Sneakers in Trouble. I'm RYA's my brother this and I
was so amazed, but I was jealous and I was
mad because I was like, damn puned discovered that she's
gonna be puned artist, like I wish she was my artist.
(47:10):
So I was mad. I still quiet, punk, conceited. I
was mad. She tells me the story. She says, Yo, bro,
you ice grilled me for like ten minutes. I was
really mad. I was in there like, yo, shit, I
wish I discovered it. Why she ain't come up to me?
And then Um when we walked out the studio, pun
hugs me and says, I know, don't worry, she's gonna
(47:30):
be your artists. Don't worry she's your artists. How pun
your pussy? How did you want pun? Um? I went
to a boat dalla uh right in my projects that
I always used to go to, and uh, they was
just out there. It was him and like three other
guys freestylad. So I came out with a diet pepsi.
(47:52):
I had a diet pepsi and I looked at him
and I um, and I was like, yo, what is
this fatteris spanished, dude gonna spit about, Like I just
what the fuck is this neiggy gonna talk about? And
and so I walked up. He said, chill, y'all, chill, chill, chill.
(48:14):
He was obviously the leader. And um so he starts
wrapping and he's like that, that that and that and
that stopped like a right like he stopped the car
set pull the moon out the sky and blow the
sun away. Me and my nigg is playing hardcore. Liver said,
(48:37):
I'm feeling breaking throw my throw, but I gotta do it.
So but I was like I could not take it.
I ran to the passenger side. I had a white
legs l s rowharnet and I opened the door, said
please get inside. He uh we locked the door and
(49:06):
and that that was just it was just uh, it
was just beautiful because I'm I'm the youngest brother. I'm
the youngest kid in my family. But I never had
a little brother and I never had the big brother.
I realized Poem was like, Yo, you're gonna be my
(49:26):
big brother. You're gonna be my big brother. I'm but
be brother, and you know you gotta have my back.
And I said I got your back, and then he
started telling me about his life were real personal, deep
sit you know, pumps, homeless, growing up, you know, and
nobody gave a funk about him. And he told me
(49:46):
all that just just ripped it up. And me coming
from the streets before I even wrapped the rap ship
is even faker. But coming from the streets, uh, where
I see men that you know, killers and murderers and
all types of people. I had never met a person
who could just open up himself and his pain. First
(50:08):
time I met him and dead and I was just like,
now I love this dude. Man. I funk with him
on another level and and and that's how I met punk. Wow.
You know, um Bill uh unpaid Bill here and I
are a part of uh the team uh that uh
(50:33):
worked on Hamilton's. And I know that. You know, anytime
lynnon Manuel does an interview about who is lyrical inspiration
was to put Hamilton's together, he won't hesitate to say
like how important Big Pun's lyrical style was just on
(50:57):
his life and just you know, cult really and all
those things like oh for sure, you know, I almost
wonder like what Hamilton's would just be a regular Broadway
show if it was to this day, to this day,
Little Italy is one of his favorite Yeah yeah, because
(51:18):
internal rhyme was always is always his thing and everything,
and so that always we used to listen to that
a lot. That record was on auto auto spin at
our house. That that was that was his hero, like
he will he I mean, you know, big punt little
did we know that we read or too middleman who
didn't do did really? Yeah? Yeah, man, you know, uh
(51:39):
you know, dead in the middle a little literally almost
wasn't Dead in the middle of a little little so
like pun was so advanced that it was a joke
to him. Dead in the middle of a Little Italy
was actually a joke, he would say, like he would
have he put it on the album two, packing the
back in the back of the ACTA ask you what,
(52:03):
because to me, that is my favorite. That is one
of my favorite skits on a hip hop record, only
because I know I know that he was re enacting
the Scarface scene where he lets the one guy go
and the one guys like thanks, I appreciate it, and
he runs off like but literally, what what was what
(52:24):
was the deal with packing the back in the back
of the act For one now that we're floating in
this error. We were unconscious. We was like, we was numbed.
We were crazy, man, we was just fucking crazy. I
don't know how to explain it to you and stuff that.
If you think about regular people, I thought, you know,
(52:45):
when I grew up, Uh, I grew up seeing death.
Uh maybe I had forty guys I grew up with.
Thirty eight of them got killed real ship before they
years old twenty one. So and when I meet regular
people who didn't have friends dying at sixteen, so I'm like,
(53:07):
then I started saying, like, damn, some of the ship
we don't set the music, like motherfucker's like with a
normal life. Is like, you know, what the fuck is
wrong with them? Because he's ain't packing the back in
the back of the act. It's about machine gun packing
the back in the back of the act. Pack in
the back and uh so that was the joke. And
then in the middle of it literally was the other joke.
(53:28):
Then in the middle of a little literally so when
we did the song together, I said, Yo, you gotta
put that debt. I swear to God on everything, you
gotta put that debt in the middle. He was like, yo,
that ship whacked. Maybe that ship is a joke. That's it,
I said, punned that ship will below their minds off.
He was like, no, I'm telling you that ship regular
that ship, but that's a joke. And they and I
(53:50):
gassed him to put it in. That motherfucker and man,
you know he was he was. You know these guys born.
This guy's born. Jay Z was born, Nas was born,
Eminem was born, Big Pump was born. Uh, I'm trying
(54:13):
to think of others. I guess rock Kim was born.
There there is no other job description for these people.
They were born to do that. Like, there's just no
That is the DNA. Their birth was on that puma.
Fall asleep, wake up and be like, give me the book, Twin,
give me the book. This crazy because I got paper
and pain right here, he said. He goes give me
(54:35):
the book, Give me the book, Twin, Give me the
book Twin, And I give him the book. He write
a whole sword down. He thought about it in his
dreams and write the whole song down. It's crazy, man.
It was that the guy was a genius. It's just
no way around it. And his breath control was kind
of like crazy, I don't understand how he did all
that and then still col You know, he would do
(55:01):
it on stage. You know, point was different, like you know, uh,
you know how you see uh boxes. It's crazy. I
keep referring back to boxing, but you know how you
see boxes. It's so nice that nobody wants to fight him,
so they can't really get a real fight because you
know you'll get knocked out. Pun would invite every rapper
to the studio to do a song with him, and
(55:23):
no one would show up. So we would drive around
me and Punt that he would see like a siph
of upcoming rappers battling each other, and he would get
out the car double Platinum rich and battle the whole cipher.
Like you know, nobody want to smoke with Punt. I
(55:44):
don't know how to explain it to you. In no way,
shape or form. Did anybody want to smoke with this guy?
They can say whatever, forget him, whatever you want, but
nobody when he was alive, people were going, don't let
him on, let him on. Formats of Flex used to
have these ciphers. Every week you would bring rappers up there.
(56:06):
So one week is Nori up there? Cameron? Uh Nori
camera and I think DMX and somebody else right, and
Punty here is it and starts racing down from the
Bronx to hot ninety seven. So Puntish calling this the
hot line. Punt course, Flex picks up. He's like, yo, yo, yo, yo,
(56:28):
you gotta let me be up there. You gotta let
me up there. You gotta let me be up there.
So Flex said, there's a true story. Flex said he
looked at everybody up there and was like, yo, punt
is on his way, he said. They was like no,
like like, don't let don't left him on this motherfucker please.
(56:48):
So the punt the ridside ninety seven, he's calling Flex
a million times. Flex, don't pick up the phone. They've
freestyling up there. So punt course me, Yo, twig this
thig a Flex more me up there, this this that.
So then later on I got with uh with with
with with with Flex, and I asked him the truth.
I was like, your Flex, why are you in that
(57:09):
point up there? He said, Yo, They were scared to death.
They didn't want to let pun up there on that cipher.
They don't want him up there. And we're talking about
big guys Cameroon Dmxnory. At that time, they was like,
I don't know, don't let that boy up if you're
gonna come up in there, but that it is. I
(57:30):
gotta go love y'all man the part to whatever you
Want Man, I'm here yo, Pa Joe. What's Love Supreme
(57:53):
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