July 16, 2020 • 61 mins
We're bringing you a special episode today from our friends over at Broken Record! We had an amazing interview with Rick Rubin, and wanted to share a piece of his world with all of you! Enjoy this special discussion between the Broken Record team and the Beastie Boys and Spike Jonze!
"It's been nearly 35 years since the Beastie Boys released their classic debut album, Licensed To Ill. In this candid conversation, Rick Rubin, who started out as the Beastie's DJ, reconnects with Mike D and Ad-Rock. Spike Jonze, who directed the new Beastie Boys documentary, Beastie Boys Story, also sits in and plays moderator. It's been nearly 20 years since Ad-Rock and Rick have talked and like old friends, they jump right into a slew of inside jokes and hilarious memories of their lives leading up to the release of Licensed to Ill.
Subscribe to Broken Record's YouTube channel to hear old and new interviews, often with bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/brokenrecordpodcast
You can also check out past episodes here: https://brokenrecordpodcast.com/ "
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's been almost thirty five years since the Beastie Boys
released the all time classic Licensed to Ill, and while
some of the record's lyrics and antics sounds dated as
a Porky's Movies, the album is still exceptional for Beastie
Boys fans. Licensed to Ill is a glimpse into the
lives of m C A ad Rock, Mike d and
their first DJ producer, Rick Rubin. Their debut album as
(00:23):
a pastiche of inside jokes in musical inspiration pulled from
the classic rock and hip hop records they listened to
and Rick's college dorm room. Rick recently connected with Mike
d ad Rock and Spike Jones, who directed the New
Beasties documentary. With Spike playing moderator. They teleport back to
the early eighties and talk about their lives leading up
to the release of Licensed to Ill. It's all here,
(00:46):
the inspiration behind Brass Monkey, Rix, Infamous Bubble Machine and
hy DJ Double R bailed on the Beastie's first big break,
opening up from Madonna on her Like a Virgin tour.
In this is broken record line of notes for the
digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. It's been about twenty years
(01:12):
since Rick and Adam Horvits have talked, and like most
Zoom calls, their reunion gets off to a glitchy start.
Mike d kicks things off. Oh who's Adam, what's up, sir?
Ricky look different. It's good to see you. You look
the same. Yeah, No, that's a lot. That is an abomination, Mike.
(01:35):
He looked great. Don't start, Adam, don't start. Don't start. Rick.
First of all, very nice to see. It's been a
long long time. The last time I can remember a
speaking was that one of the Tibetan freedom shows. You
have a good memory. Then I don't remember that, and
that had to be. But I mean, just time wise,
putting a time stamp on it that was at least
(01:56):
twenty years ago. It's unbelievable. It's surreal, and it makes
no sense. I mean, from my perspective, it makes no sense.
I'll say, I haven't I don't know why it worked
out that we've not hung out in that amount of time.
I'm just I've been so busy, you know. I can
(02:16):
remember there was a little window of time that we
started spending a little bit of time together in Los Angeles,
right when you came to Los Angeles after I was
already there and um and I can remember we had
lunch at Hugos. God, damn, I don't remember anything. Oh yeah,
going back in the Hugo's days. Michael trying to talk
(02:37):
pasta Alla Mama. Yeah, Michael trying to talk right now.
We hung had a handful of times, and I remember
seeing you and I think some something happened that I
don't know what happened at the party for the Blood
Sugar Sex Magic album. At the it was that album,
That's what happened. Oh. Like, uh, I got daggers today
(03:01):
coming with all the cylinders. You guys, we can we
can see, we can see, we can see. I'm in
I'm in a mood today, dude. I adam for your
along with your daggers. I think you need like you
need a bank of sound effects like you know, Doug Siren. No, no, no,
I'm just in a mood. Let's get all the dagger out.
Let's let's do let's what's and what's the show? Rick?
(03:23):
What what happens on your show? What's what is it?
I wouldn't call it a show, it's a It's usually
a conversation. And I talked to different artists and they
tell me stories about what they do. It's not unlike
what happens in a recording session before the music gets made.
That's typically what it's like, just kind of and and
(03:44):
especially if it's someone that I don't know learning who
they are. Can I start with a question, which I
know is but I'm just curious, so I want to
ask it. Do you find that you more often find
out things that you don't know about people that you
do know when they're doing your show, Or do you
find stuff about somebody you do know that's doing your
(04:06):
show more so in an unexpected way than somebody who
you don't know at all who's doing your show where
you have no background. In both cases, I learned a
tremendous amount about the people I'm talking to. It's maybe
more unusual with people that I know, because I get
to talk about things that we don't normally talk about,
Like I was thinking about even from the time that
(04:27):
we knew each other back in the day, stuff we
never talked about, Like I wanted to ask you guys
about high school, Like I don't know what your experience
in high school, and I was just curious, Like, wow,
I was around it was about the time you guys
were just either just ending high school or just recently
ending high school, and like, what was that like? We
never talked about that. Well, it's funny to think, actually,
(04:50):
as you say that, because we spent so much time
in your dorm room, I've never once pictured you in
a class. I had no idea. I've never even thought
that you actually like attended class. Yeah, I didn't. I
didn't attend many. Right, Well, it's interested conversely, when we
were in your dorm room us because we were not
going to school, right, So it's like, yeah, but that's
(05:13):
a good point. We never ever talked about we I
never ever asked you about n y U ever. We
just for our perspective, we just thought, well, this is cool,
Like this guy lives in a dorm, he's going to college,
and we're in high school. So this like, this is cool.
Like you were like, we thought you were going to
be the cool like you turned you know, you're like
(05:34):
the cool, excitely older guy. And then and then also mistakenly,
I think we thought, wow, we're gonna be hanging out
in this dorm, which just means we're gonna beat like
tons of girls, and this is gonna be great, and
we never talked to anybody. It was not. But it
was not like that mean for you to mind, Adam.
What was your what was your school experience like on
(05:55):
st um? Well, I was. I went. I was supposed
to go to Brooklyn Heck, because I wanted to go
to Stuyveson, but I didn't get in, and so I
went to Brooklyn Tech. And that was just too weird.
That's a whole other story, but tell it, tell that story.
What was weird about it? No, Brooklyn, Like I wanted
to go to Stuyveson because my best friend Arthur went there,
and um and I didn't get in. So I went
(06:17):
to the other school you could go to was a
technical school in Brooklyn, and it was massive and they
had like metal detectors to get in and it was
this huge technical school and I, like I quickly realized
after like the third day, like this is not for me.
I don't know what it's fright. It was just so overwhelming.
Looking back, I wish I would have actually stayed and
(06:38):
learned something technical actually what could have helped me? But
um so I just stopped going to school for a while.
And then my dad got me into the school Mcberniey.
That was a private school of town, and I was
there for a couple of years and then I stopped going,
probably right around the time I met you. And not
that the two things, not that two things are related.
(06:58):
I'm just saying, what was the experience like of the school,
Like what were the kids like the experience going going
to school? Because I was also I got into graffiti
because we were into graffiti and so like that was
the fun part about getting to school. Is just like
being on the train and watching this, you know, just
seeing who was on there and all that stuff in
the school. The first school was was just overwhelming. It
(07:20):
was I can't even describe. It was just huge with
thousands of kids. It was just a massive school. And
then McBurney was like a preppy school. It was like
a I don't know, I just seemed felt really out
of place there. I felt kind of dirty, like my
clothes are dirty. Well can you tell tell us the story, Adam,
Why you never returned to mcbernie Oh? Yeah, So they
(07:42):
had the school play was gonna be Oliver, and so
I did. They had auditions and I and I sang
for the audition. Consider yourself at home and I never
really sang out loud before, and I was so bad
that I just left the school that never went back. Incredible,
(08:03):
But I will say I think you'd be a good
artful artful dodger artful, be good like even now then
now in between, I know, but it was singing. I
can't say, as you know, I can't sing. I mean
I can, but it's just bad. Yeah, yeah, it's not
You're you know, you're not rapping Forte, I get it, Adam.
(08:24):
Did you get into graffiti before before hip hop music
or were they simultaneous later later hip hop later? No?
Rap music first? Definitely okay, And do you remember what
were the record stories that you guys hung out in.
Did you guys hang out record stores all? I knew
you hung out at rat Cage, But was that like
the first record store where you would like spend time
(08:46):
but like the rat Cage you were at like that
that was the first record store where I, like, I
felt comfortable talking to the person behind the counter. I
would go to breaker Bob's all the time, like get
like get off the train coming home from school like
a bleaker Bob's, and I'd be terrified because Bob was
always there. You yell at you know, yell at you
(09:07):
yell at me. And he had that huge Doberman pincher.
She was scary and yeah, and they were always mean
to me. Do you mean to everybody? You would always
say random, weird jewish stuff. To me, I was just
like a little kid. I just wanted to find out
about what cool, what was new? It was cool and
I didn't know and they were so neat, but then
there was cool. I do remember going to nine nine Records. Yeah,
(09:28):
that's where I hung out. I loved I loved nine nine.
My memory of the of those days were that the
whole schedule of the day was based around going to
the club. Did you guys feel that way as well
or no? Oh? Yeah, like that was the that was
really the primary thing every day was what club was
(09:50):
going to be that night, if there was going to
be a band if not, what DJs to go to
see and where to hang out. Well that's why the
Rackage Records Star was great because it was the first
record store that kids hung out at for me, at least,
I mean the other recordsters that I used to go to,
you know, kids wouldn't really hang out and Bleaker Bob's maybe,
(10:12):
but that I didn't like it there, and so Rackage
was like a meeting place, like a hangout place. And
later your dorm room was going moving the needle forward along,
like when we would hang out with you and we
go to your dorm room. I remember like every day
like it was just kind of like go to your
dorm room and then figure out what we were doing
that night, and what we were doing that night always
(10:33):
revolved around what club we were going to. I remember
it always being around music. Even during the day. We
would make mixtapes and sometimes sit out on the front,
uh the front of the dorm with boom box and
listen to music. And it seemed like that's all that
it was. That's all it was going on. All that
(10:53):
seemed important was music and what we were going to
eat and what we were going to listen to. And
my it was clearly focused on hooking up. I was interested.
I wasn't very good, uh in that arena, yeah, but
(11:14):
but yeah, but I was interested. Where did the original
Volkswagen emblem come from? That was from my friend Laura Shilson.
It was on her wall. So wait, wait, I understand,
but it wasn't on her wall on that chain. Yeah,
I don't remember there. I think she just had it
on the wall. She took it off a car, and
(11:37):
for some reason I had it and then put it
on a string and then you took it. That's what
I love about being a teenager, how much stuff just
sort of goes from one kid to the next to
the next. I just I remember. I feel like I
feel like you and Yea came over and it was
like you gave it to me in a glorious presentation. Yeah.
(11:58):
I like my revisionist history. I feel like like something
like it's almost like I feel like I was knighted,
like you guys gave me bestowed. It was bestowed upon
you upon me, and then I could become Mike D.
I'm going to dispute that, because think about it, what
have I ever given you? I feel like I feel
(12:18):
like I remember this happening though, I feel like I
was there for that. Yes, but I do feel like
and I don't know how it ended up being on
the chain, because I don't think it was on that
chain somehow, like that chain was like sitting around and
I don't remember that exactly, but I remember them. Once
I started wearing that, it was kind of like then
(12:40):
it was like I felt like everybody felt like, all right,
I could I could beat Mike d Now that was
your Superman cave. Yes, it was wow when you first
met these guys, what was like? What are Can you
think of a time where there sometimes when you were like, oh,
I get them, I understand who they are, Like I
understand who Yaki is or who Adam is or who
(13:00):
Mike is. Like, what was your sense of that? Well?
I remember meeting Adam first through Dave Skilkin, and I
remember Dave Skilkin was sort of in my mind the glue,
like he was a kid who was just uh, super
friendly and outgoing, which I don't think any of any
of us were. I thought we met you and I
met because of Nick Cooper. Could be wrong. I remember
(13:22):
Nick Cooper, but I didn't remember that's how we met.
I do remember I remember Nick Cooper telling us about
you and being like, yeah, there's this I I you
gotta meet him because we we put cooking us out.
We really needed a DJ. It's like, you gotta meet him.
He's into like the stuff that you guys are into,
(13:43):
and he's a d K and he's got all the equipment.
According to Nick and Wheber I asked your He's like,
he's got a bubble machine. That was his big line.
It's true. I'll see that. I'm it's true. Rick is
confirming the bubble It's true that I had I had
access to aubble machine. Okay, I never know. You were
(14:04):
writing the book, you were like Rick, and no, I
said the bubble machine, and You're like, I don't think so.
And then you called Rick and Rick was like, yeah,
I don't know about bubble machine. I was like, you
both are crazy, because there was definitely a bubble was
a bubble machine. Why else would you want to meet
someone exactly they have a bubble machine. Okay, I'll go
(14:25):
the funny. The funny thing is is that the bubble
machine was something that just was at the dorm. It's like, uh,
and when I heard that there was a bubble machine there,
It's like, oh, wow, we gotta have a party. We
have a bubble machine now, so let's have a party.
And that was where the bubble machine story began. Rick.
But I'm curious that about like just what your relationship
(14:46):
with each of them was, Like I can remember spending
the most time with Adam, and it seemed like our
friendship had mostly to do with music, because that's what
we We just listen to music all the time, as
I recalled, and d Jay in music. And then I
think I met the other guys through the story of
Cookie Puss, after Cookie Puss was already out, and then
(15:09):
wanting a DJ, and then I came to a couple
of shows in DJ after the after the live set.
As I recall hard to remember first impressions. I remember
seeing Mike before I met Mike at the Grille one night,
and I remember someone saying, Oh, that that's one of
the guys in the Beastie Boys, And I remember thinking
(15:31):
it was just like, uh, it was just a weird
I had a weird impression, not good or bad, just
like he's a kid, feels like maybe my age, maybe
a little younger, and he's in a band, and and
I remember he was I think, I think you may
have been pretty inebriated that night, Mike, and I just
(15:52):
remember thinking, Wow, this guy seems like a little like uh,
it seems like revd Up, you know, like revd Up.
He's like tough, tough guy, Mike, You mean like he's
just like bad boy. No, no, no, just like like
enjoying himself. Like he was hitting it hard. Yeah, he
goes hard in the paint. He went hard in the pain.
(16:12):
He was going hard in the paint and it was impressive.
Come on. I don't remember him being inebriated that night,
which doesn't mean that I wasn't. But what I do.
What I do I do remember is two things. One
is that was a really really important for like us,
for you, Rick is like a part of us, like
because that was like where we really saw like hip
hop came, like I talked about it in the book,
(16:33):
where hip hop came downtown and all of a sudden
there's the Treacherous Three And then I think it was
like the next week was Africa, Benbada and Chassy j
If it wasn't that night whatever, and it was like this,
it was the most exciting thing. But so my thing
in terms of compensated, I think there's like, of course
I was completely It's funny cause I like I think
(16:53):
about I think back on those n grill nights and
I think, wow, I was like so intimidated, was so
scared to be there. But I was lucky every second
of it. I was. There was no like club night.
Maybe that was more influential or exciting to me, but
but I was compensating for being intimidated. Probably like because
(17:15):
I was with like my group of like friends, I
was probably acting like, oh, yeah, I got this, but
I definitely didn't have it at all. Rick, Well, what
did you know about about the Beastie Boys at that
point or what did you what was your impression of him?
Had you ever heard of him? I don't think I
knew anything. I think the first thing that I heard
of the Beastie Boys was Cookie Posts, which I loved,
(17:36):
and I remember I was in San Francisco and I
heard it at she was a writer and a yeah.
I think it might have been in Powers and I
think I was stay staying at her like lofty place,
and I think I heard it there. I don't know
if she played it or if I heard it on
the radio in San Francisco when I was there, but
(17:58):
I remember the connection of being at her house and
hearing it and um, and I thought, wow, that's really
cool because I was really really into hip hop at
the time, and I felt like it was the first
punk rock expansion towards hip hop. That's what it felt like.
It was as much a punk I would say it
(18:18):
was as much a punk rock record as it was
anything else. Compared to hip hop records, it was punk rock,
but compared to other punk rock records, it was more
hip hop. And I remember thinking, wow, it's really cool
and and it and it had a and I remember
laughing at it and laughing at it with it, you know,
like laughing with it, thinking this is really funny, it's
(18:39):
really good. And I remember I remember, I remember Yak
and his motorcycle jacket and his long raincoat, and at
one point I felt like him and Nick Cooper kind
of had a similar raincoat vibe, you know that raincoat vibe. Yeah.
I don't remember how I met Nick Cooper, but I
(19:00):
remember that to me, it felt like an anomaly. But
in both cases, the raincoat vibe was not something you
saw kids in New York wearing like it was. It
was a fashion statement to where uh long, somewhat dressy raincoat. Yeah. Yeah,
the raincoat vibe played played strong when I first met
(19:23):
Yak at that This Bad Brains show at Botany Talkhouse,
and he was the only other kid my Agia was there.
I was like, Wow, this is the kids wearing like
a trench coat and his combat boots and his like
hairs spiked up, like this kid's really cool. Yeuck actually
kept that raincoat thing for that trench coat for a
long time. Yeah, that trench coat vibe worked, I was
(19:47):
gonna say. I also remember Yak's obsession with the Bad Brains,
like it felt like nothing else in the world existed
other than the Bad Brains and kept that going for
a long time too. Yeah, And I uh remember as
a as a music fan seeing that sort of obsessive
(20:07):
dedication and just thinking, wow, he's really again going hard,
like he's going hard for this thing that he loves.
Did you do you feel like you've got the answers
that you wanted? Yeah? Well, actually I'm always curious what
what uh I mean? When you're like eighteen, it's kind
of hard, Like how would you describe somebody you meet?
(20:28):
Is kind of hard because it's more about like what
what common interests like having the same music interests, But
did you have a sense during like just not knowing
these guys then how you would describe each of them?
I never really thought about it. I did feel like
I definitely felt that I felt like, UM, the place
(20:49):
that I grew up in and and the people I
was around and where I grew up I had a
big impact on what I what I saw, what I knew.
I felt like their life experience was very different than mine,
and it was just interesting and in some ways, Um,
I thought it was a good thing, and in some
(21:10):
ways I thought it was a bad thing from from
my perspective, And what way and what way was it good?
What way was it bad? You're talking about like a
long night link kid versus a city kid kind of right, Yeah,
I would say like they had better access than I had,
because this is pre Internet. Like now, everyone could find
out anything they want about anything. Where I was, it
(21:32):
was hard to find out anything about anything I would.
I'd spend a lot of time in the library doing research,
and even and even that research wasn't sort of cultural
of the moment research, It was just what I could
learn about the things I was interested in. And then
spending a lot of time in record stores is my
closest way of having any connection to culture because where
(21:53):
I lived, there wasn't it didn't really exist. Although there
was a club called there are a couple of nightclubs,
and I did get to see like the Specials played
in my hometown, which was remarkable. Um on the downside,
I felt like maybe by living in the city, it
(22:16):
might narrow the view of what was cool, Like I
didn't know what was cool coming from where I came from.
And the beauty of that was I could I could
see and hear everything. There was very little peer pressure
about about that where I lived, whereas I could see
if you were in the city there was stuff that
was cool to like it not cool to like, and
(22:38):
that could have a limiting effect. I mean, I guess, yeah,
I heard led Zeppelin playing from like other kids at school,
but because kind of like to your point, I had
already decided, like I was so set on making my
identity about being into stuff that those kids weren't into,
(22:58):
I couldn't hear led Zeppe. But then when we were
in your dorm room and all of a sudden, you know,
you put on when the levee breaks, We're like, was
this It's like the best thing ever? Or like a
C D C or you know, what do you tell me, Mike? First,
tell me your memories of the dorm room. First of all,
it's the first college dorm I'd ever have been in
(23:20):
period here in high school. Um, I remember like just
being intimidated, like going up to the desk and I
guess it must have been like maybe Mr Rick Rick
Mazilla the desk and like having to get the pass
or whatever to go up in the elevator being you
get the visitor pass because we're visiting you, and then
I and then I remember being kind of confused because
(23:42):
you had a roommate, but then you I think you
had a roommate, right, I actually need you to kind
of like explain this to us, but I think you
had a roommate when we first went there. But you
had this huge p A in the in the dorm
room with like to sir Win Vega, you know, like
there's like the biggest PA I've ever seen, like like
(24:03):
somebody that I knew have. And then with the turn
tables and like the drum machine and everything and so
so we loved it and we're impressed it all this equipment,
but I was very confused. I was like, wait, how
does Rick just like we were listening to music really
loud in your dorm room, which and I loved it.
But how were you How is this guy able to
(24:25):
do this and like not get kicked out of the
dorm room and where is this roommate? Like I was
just a lot of questions. Yeah, yes, all all of that, Adam,
what were your what were your memories of the dorm room?
You know, first of all, I was looking for a
place to be basically, you know, sort of in life
(24:45):
and literally like not going to school and needing somewhere
to be. But also being around you know, older kids
is cool when you're younger, you know, intimidating, but you know,
kind of cool. You're like, oh, you kind of think
that you're one of the you know, older kids now.
And it was just it was just cool, you know,
especially going to your dorm room. You had just the records,
(25:07):
this stuff like you know, two turntables, a drum machine.
I was like, I loved it. I didn't have you know,
I didn't have that stuff. I didn't have all those records,
So it was great. I loved it. I mean, yeah,
like Ricky talked about access, and yes we did we
did have like growing up in New York City when
we talked about in the book and the show whatever
your woe was a huge thing to us, that we
(25:29):
would just hear music all around us, or that we
go to rackcas because we want to find out what's
happening that night, and somebody say, oh, this thing's happening,
and we would just go there because we had this
access as teenagers. But but in your dorm room, it
was just really exciting because I went out of sid
we would I remember, like I was my I was
again like kind of confused, but so impressed when you
(25:52):
you would come off, you would I think I felt
like you would come if they delivered it to you,
or if you'd come back every week with like a
great record from the record pool. Yeah, and you remember that,
and we'd all go we'd go through them and put
like basically everyone on to see what was good, what
we like, what we didn't like, whatever we listened to
every twelve inch from that week. That was such like
(26:13):
an exciting Like I didn't I didn't have the like
I had the money to get a single, like a
rap single every once in a while, but I certainly
would never think and never had the money to buy
two copies of the same record. That just seems nuts
and so to go to your place and you had
two copies of all these singles that I loved, and
(26:35):
we had two turns. It was just amazing. You know,
it was nice to see you too. Obviously I should
I feel used. I never did get that Bubba machine access.
But then also I think and Adam and I've talked
about this, like there was it was interesting. We felt
like we were trying to just think back at you know,
(26:56):
when we first like we met you, then we started
working with you. It's like you especially like once you
started starting, when you started producing uh with us and
producing our records, it was like you had this confidence Rick,
that was like you know, it's not like every either
any of us were like, well Rick, what what record
have you done? You know what I mean? Like and
(27:17):
and we're all whenever, we're all of its eighteen years old,
but it's like you had this confidence, like you knew
how you wanted things to sound. And looking back at it, like,
I'm just so impressed honestly with that, Like who It's
got to be pretty rare that somebody like eighteen, nineteen,
twenty years old knows how they want, like what kind
(27:41):
of what types of records they want to make Yeah,
it's it's weird. I I definitely knew, I had a
clear vision of what I wanted to hear. Really as
a fan, it wasn't It was more, um, I just
loved it, and I knew how certain things made me feel,
and I wanted more of the ones that made me
feel good and less of the ones that didn't make
(28:03):
me feel as good. And it was very pure. It
was the same way, the same way that you connected
to it. I just and I think maybe part of
it might have been that I didn't have brothers or sisters.
You guys both had siblings, and I think that changes it.
It's like I spent most of my time until I
(28:24):
started hanging out with you guys by myself, so it
wasn't The only opinion that I was around was my own.
You know, I didn't have an older brother playing me
music I didn't have. I didn't have it all sort
of had. I had to find it and and see
(28:45):
what resonated with me. And it had very little to
do with the people around me, because like in my
high school, nobody like punk rock. I was the only
person who like punk rock, So I had no sense
of community at all. When I started listening to hip hop.
At least there were a couple the kids in my
high school who liked hip hop. Well, I'm gonna change
the subject for a sec because there is something that
(29:06):
I wanted to know Rick. Yes, So, Spike, I don't
know if you know this, But so we got the
gig to open from Madonna on tour and Rick was
the BC Boys DJ DJ Double R. And we played
a couple of shows, um, and then he was gone
and uh. And he said that his doctor said he
(29:29):
had an inner ear situation that he couldn't fly. And
so I thought that that answer couldn't fly. And so
now I'm asking you, Rick, did you just not want
to do it? Or did you really have an ear problem? True?
Both both answers are flying with me. No, no no, no,
of course true. I went to the the clinic on
(29:51):
fourteen There was a ear, nose, and throat clinic on
four Teams. I had never been there before, and I
went there and they said, you have a terrible infection
in your ear. You gotta take these drugs and you
cannot fly. If you fly, you'll probably lose your hearing
in that ear. So that was and we and I
(30:11):
It's funny because I don't remember us talking about it.
But also maybe part of the reason we didn't talk
about it was because it was the tour was already ongoing,
wasn't it. It was like we were so I feel
like we did, Like, no, you don't. You flew out,
Like you started the tour with us in like Seattle
and Portland or something, and then for some reason you
(30:33):
had to fly back to New York. But we were
still on tour and you were you were supposed to
meet us again, like in Los Angeles or something, and
then instead of meeting us, you're like, you know you
you had the ear infection. Yeah, now we're finding out
was legit. But at the time we were like ear infection, Well,
(30:54):
I'll tell you everything. Feel free to ask me. Everything
was always legit. It's like, I don't I would have
loved to. I loved being in the band, I loved
doing the shows. It was it was completely thrilling. I
loved it. I feel in some ways it's like the
the universe has this incredible power to affect my ear
(31:18):
and make me stay in one place. And then it
led to me focusing all my attention into production instead
of being in a band which could have been like
it could have been, that could have happened, and it
just sort of worked out the way Maybe it was
supposed to. I don't know. It feels like in retrospect,
looking back, I would have never made that choice. While
(31:40):
I'll say I didn't like traveling, I loved the experience
of playing in the band. It was super fun. I
thought the shows were great, Like I can remember I
can remember us playing at Radio City and uh, just
how much the audience didn't like it, And I just
thought it was incredibly punk rock and fun. I can
(32:03):
remember Madison Square Garden and thinking it was in It
was just like, we're playing at Madison Square Garden. Can
you believe this? We didn't even really we didn't have
an album out. It was unbelievable, Right, What were the
shows like? Rick? Uh? It was? It was funny because
we got to do the the Crazy Beastie Boys show
(32:24):
and lean into the craziness of uh of this sort
of hell persona, the bad guy persona, and in front
of an audience where it was completely inappropriate, which made
it even funnier. It's like, it's it's like if you're
if You're if you're doing a punk rock show in
front of a punk rock audience, there's this camaraderie there.
(32:47):
And if you're doing a punk rock show in front
of people who are not feeling it, it really gets
punk rock. It's like it gets it gets elevated to
this other thing, not for anybody but us. I mean
I found it thrilling. Um, I'm I know the audience
hated it, but that was sort of part of the
(33:07):
fun of it. Why then't even more than hated it?
And and I think that's where it became thrilling to us,
was that like these twelve year old girls and maybe
more importantly their parents were genuinely horrified. They were they
were repulsed. I mean, and to be right, I had
to be there. We're a bunch of like little white
(33:28):
kids yelling at them on stage like you should be.
It's like, what was offensive? And yeah, and for the record,
like Ricky, you know you obviously had a big that
was that was another thing like along with introducing us
to heavy metal led Zeppelin, Sabbath, b C, D C.
You we also like the wrestling thing was never cool.
(33:49):
That was uncool to us, right because we were these
punk rock kids it's still uns uncol to everybody, but
you were totally you d like this like vocabulary in
that world, and you immediately saw like this opportunity with
the madonitory that like, oh, it was like obviously you like, no, guys,
(34:10):
what do you mean, You're just gonna be It's just
like wrestling. You know, you had So it's just pretty
weird to think about. Most people don't think about, like
if you have a band, it's going to open up
for this somebody who was like a cultural icon who
couldn't have been you couldn't have had a bigger on
the planet at that moment. Madonna like the biggest star
(34:30):
in the world. Most people just thinking like, how do
you put a good show together? And you you saw
it through this totally other lens. It was like, no,
it's obvious, it seems like wrestling. Well, the other part
of it was is, no matter what we did, the
audience was there to see Madonna and they weren't gonna
like what we did regardless. So to to really lean
(34:52):
into that idea of well where the we're the bad
guys here? Where where the enemies and too and to
overcome that to play it with all this bravado, like
you're here to see me and like it's just so ridiculous,
so funny. Adam, do you remember the stuff you said?
I remember you said some really most come on, you guys.
(35:14):
Most remember the big, the best and biggest flowing was
I am the King of the Paramount, Like whatever theater
we are at, That's how Adam would open up the show,
I am the King. Um, you know Madison Square Garden.
Do you, Adam, do you see the humor in this now? Really? Now?
(35:36):
Of course I do. It's you're like, I you have
this space like I didn't like it? No, no, no, no,
we we also we also just did this show a
bunch of times in the movie, and it's like it's
fresh in here. Um, it was amazing, it was hilarious.
It's a it's a it's a it's not a it's
not a wild idea, but it's a it's a it
(35:58):
is a great idea. You know, they're not gonna like us.
They're certainly not gonna love us. They might possibly be
like I didn't like that, But if we can guarantee
that they remember us by saying I fucking hated that,
and I will hate this and have this memory of
hatred for a long long time. That's an interesting way
(36:19):
to get your music through to somebody. Yeah, and it worked,
It worked, and we but I remember the time like
being convinced because it was like we look at it
in this like feedboy way of like, yeah, we're gonna
make a name for ourselves, and we did. Rick. One
thing I want to ask about just is a production
on the first record, the uh we you know, we
(36:42):
talked about a little bit in the show, but obviously
we have so much but that like, as as a fan,
there's some bands that take a while to form, and
then some bands that just come out fully formed like
that in that record. And even just actually the way
these guys described you with the confidence, it sounds like
you kind of came out fully formed in some strange,
(37:02):
you know, amazing way. What was like what was the
process of that first record. I can just remember that
every time there was a good idea, we would make
a new song. And I can remember the I remember
two parts. I remember the lyric writing, which would be
basically every night that we went out to the clubs.
I remember trading lines only with the hope of making
(37:23):
the other Remember laugh like I would always say stuff
that I would think would try to make Adam laugh
if we were hanging out, and if he laughed, I
would write it down and just collecting lines, and we
would both we would all do it back and forth
and and collect up these mountains of rhymes, not so
much with a subject or a song in mind. Most
(37:47):
of the time it was more just good lines. Then
I can remember being in the studio sometimes with Adam,
sometimes myself, just making tracks because it's what I was
always doing, and would just make tracks and um and
just trying to make something interesting and and I don't
think I could separate it in my head, but I
(38:08):
knew the beats for l L were different than the
beats for the BEASTI Boys, and the beats for the
Best Boys were different than the beats for Run DMC.
And it seemed clear to me, But I can't put
a finger on what was different. But I knew as
they were as we were making them. It's like, oh,
this one, this one feels like LLLBAT and this one
(38:30):
feels like this could be a really good Beast Boys records,
those those like gated snare drums. I don't know. I
can't say I can't. I can't put a finger on
what it was. Do you remember sometimes making the record
where it's like, oh, this is what, like it sort
of gave clarity to what the whole record is, like
a decision, a beat, a lion. No. I remember I
was in Electric Lady working on the Cults album Electric
(38:54):
and I got a call from Mike and Mike said, Hey,
how come my records not done yet? And do you
remember this? Mike, No, not at all. This was amazing
because I think this was like you guys were on tour.
I assume I was this must have been post ear infection. Well,
we're probably on Raising Hell at that point, and I
(39:15):
remember like a somewhat heated conversation where you were like, dude,
you did say do that like the equivalent of dude,
why is I mean, we're on tour? Why is our
album not done? And I said, you know, it doesn't.
And I remember it's like it doesn't just happen, Like
(39:35):
it doesn't. Uh, it's not not happening because I don't
want it to happen. It. Uh, each of these things
arrives when it arrives, do you know what I'm saying?
It's like We didn't go into the studio every day
with the idea of, Okay, we're gonna make something today.
It was more like making beats in the dorm, listening
(39:58):
to records, like coming up with what us what a
track was gonna be, which sometimes would be six weeks
or two months between songs. You know, it took. It
was a long period of time. I can't remember from
the time that we made whatever the first song was
for that record. So we made the last song, I'm
guessing it was eighteen months. Could have been two years,
(40:19):
was It felt like a long time. And so also
the other thing you guys talked about in the show
Mike and I'm talking about in the show is going
away on tour and coming back and you'd finished the
record and mixed it, and they were surprised that it
was this big thing where they they thought they were
making a sort of more low fi punk rap record.
Uh talk about that? Was that something you always saw,
you always knew that that was the sound? Not at all.
(40:41):
I in any case, there was no preconception or what
something was supposed to sound like. It was just making
it sound as good as it could sound for what
it was. Whatever it was it's like the same it's
true with LLL or same it's true with raising Hell.
It wasn't like there was no thought to it. And
the gated snare thing was like, uh, it's interesting you
bring it up because it was it was like a
(41:03):
moment in time, and I think it was really what
was the art of noise was that it was the
thing that got everyone excited about this kind of drum
sound and that was probably like experimenting in that art
of noisy way that led to that is my guests,
if you had if you had Art of Noise twelve
(41:23):
inch and Man Parish twelve inch, which one would you
put on first? Both? I like them both. You can't
put on both first, No, I wouldn't. Depends on it
depends on the scenario. Depends on the scene. So you
read a room, Yeah, what is it going off? Can
you turn the fucking roosters down in the next place?
(41:43):
Roosters are feeling it. The roosters are deeper than paint today.
Oh god, I wanted to ask Mike and Adam about
their memories of Chung King also. Oh man, yeah, so
that's a good question. I Well, I'm feeling like I
remember I remember, I think I was. We were with
you Rick and we were talking and Jayburnett was like, oh,
(42:06):
you guys gotta work at this place. I don't. I
don't think he said chunk King's we I feel like
we named chunking. He's just like, you got oh a
seeking is called secret Society, then that's right. He's like,
you gotta work at the studio, my friends, studio secret Society.
But he was like talking about that guess like the
Nive console or something that stuff that as a kid,
I didn't really understand, but he was all excited about it.
(42:27):
So we're like okay, Bet, and then we go there
and it's just kind of like, you know, we don't
really know about studios, but it's just like kind of bummy,
you know, like it's not like nothing, there's nothing fancy
about it. It seems like every other week when we
go there one week and the next week like walls
like they always kept moving balls around. Yeah do you
(42:49):
remember that? Like, yeah, I do. I remember because it
was kind of a loft space that the guy built
out and he was just kind of moving stuff around.
It was a weird place. I remember when we grew etied,
we graffitied the wall behind the console, and at first,
like I kind of remember, we got yelled at. And
then it became the thing of the studios that everybody
came there and did graffiti while they while they recorded.
(43:13):
I remember the first time that we went there, psyched,
We're gonna go to recording studio. I've been to like
the Young and the Users recorded at a nice recording studio.
And this place was like a fucking dump. It was
fucking literally a dead fish in the fish tank. And
it was dark. It was like super dark, like everything
was dark. I was like, why why is it? Why
(43:35):
are we going to the scary like haunted house. Remember
walking up, it was like five flight walk up. It
was dirt, dingy, dirty place. Now. I remember the elevator
because it was all graffitied and somebody wrote their name.
It was all this graffiti and someone wrote jose Ninas
in the top corner And every time we got in
the elevator, we thought that was the funniest name. And
(43:56):
it literally we left every time we were in that
elevator because meanness is a funny last name. I feel
like we we laughed a lot at chum King. Yeah, well,
and on the way there and on the way out
like it was just it's like, I think part of
the key things about license to know what was making it.
(44:17):
It never felt like we're making an album like it
just felt like what you just said that it was
kind of like that was just part of all right,
wake up, go to your dorm room, listen to some records,
you know, go to Cozy super Burger, then whatever club's
going on that night, and if there's an idea studio.
(44:38):
It wasn't like now you know the cold, like Adam said, like,
it's not like we were making an album for this
amount of time. And actually it's funny. I think back
at you talking about me calling you and making that
phone call and asked like, what's up with the record?
I kind of now I'm thinking back at it, and
I remember we were on the Raising Hell tour and
I remember and being really excited run and Russell is
(45:02):
getting me all excited, like like you know, like you
got a call like what's taking so long with your album?
Like you guys should be like run because he'd heard
like by that, you know, he was so excited about
Holding Now, which was hold It Now was like one
of those songs like we're talking about, like we were
out of the club. I remember, like we remember we
(45:23):
went in there and just played around like a bunch
of different like scratching things in off of records, and
I think we even put down the verses. And then
I remember you and Russell kind of like hearing it
after we've already already done some stuff, and you specifically
being really excited about it. You were like actually more
(45:44):
excited even than we were where you were like, yeah,
this this is it, Like this is this is what
you guys need to be making. It was mind blowing.
I loved it. Oh you know, quest Of just told
me a story the other day that I wonder if
you guys know this. In Philly, when Hold It Now
came out as a single, the version that was released
(46:05):
to radio was the a cappella, which we called the Acapulco.
And so in Philly people thought that the song didn't
have a beat or any music or anything. It was
just vocals. Yeah, it was just it was just vocals.
And he thought, Wow, this is the craziest record I
ever heard. It's just this rhyming and he said, And
(46:26):
it was really well liked in Philly, even though it
was such such a crazy you know, the first rap
record not to have any music and um and it
was a hit. And then when the album came out
and it had the beat, nobody liked it because they
were used to the acapella version, which they thought was
just like the greatest thing they ever heard. We were
(46:47):
talking to him and he would say something it just
reminded me of words that we tried to force into
like common you know speak. We'd pick random words and
be like, oh no, this is this is what people say.
Now I can't Why am I blank? I'm kind of
I'm like I'm blanking on him so bad. But we
used we picked like a few different words or phrases.
(47:10):
It would be sometimes to be a phrase to like
you'd hear you'd hear someone say something at the club
that was just normal to them and we would laugh,
like brass Monkey came from Jazzy j talking about what
you like to drink, and just like, yeah, it's like,
what's funnier than brass monkey? Oh my god, brass Monkey
is that was a crazy night with tel Rock. Tell
(47:32):
me I don't I don't remember. So you were producing
a record for a rapper named Tela Rock, and we
were going to go to the studio with you because
that we just that that's also what I like when
you're young, you're just you just go with your friend
wherever they're going. Like it's just funny to think about
going with your friend to their job, Like, no, you
(47:54):
can't come to my job. I'm working. What are you doing?
And so I didn't think about it. The place was
in Queens or Long Island or somewhere. It was like
it was like we had to take a car. It
was really far and me and Skill Calm were there
and it was just nuts. It just seems so growing.
There was like grown ups that we didn't know. I
don't know Tiller Rock, but it was like a real
(48:16):
rap scene. It was just weird. And then Jazz J
passed around a bottle of brass Monkey and me and
Skill Comb were like, this is fucking delicious. Yeah, I
didn't know that you guys, you guys actually drank it.
Oh yeah. The whole night was crazy. And then we
could separated in two separate cars and we're like in
Long Island, were like where are we and getting white Castle? Anyway,
(48:39):
it was it was a really it was a nice night. Yeah,
I remember going. I remember taking cars to white castles.
It was hard in Manhattan. It was hard to get
white castle probably for the best. But what do we
say because rope a dope, like in late eighties rope
and I'm just I just remember one word. We'd say
that ship is dope, and they'd be like, that's dope.
It's rope a dope. And then we were like it
was like, oh, that's rope, and nobody like, did not
(49:03):
laugh rope. We said, but that should it did not laugh.
That is so funny. It's too bad because it's kind
of great. Nobody else was like, oh, that's rope. I
forgot rope. Rope is great. We gotta bring back rope.
Rope is really funny, though it's it's explaining the joke.
(49:26):
It's not that good. I feel like Flavor had a
lot of the flavors normal waves speaking, had a lot
of references that could work their way into songs. Like
of everyone we hung out with, Flavor was a gold
mine of phrases. I just want you to know the
last time I saw Flavor, I was in my car
in New York, stopped at a red light and he
(49:48):
got in my car and I was just like, what's
like someone's getting in my car and it's Flavor and
he's like, yo, let's up. Take me to like thirty
sixth Street, and so I drove him. I was like,
all right, good to see. Wow, it was nuts. Did
did you guys go to at all to the studio
when Public Enemy was recording? No? I just remember I
(50:09):
remember going to their the radio show of the Spectrum
City UH show in Long Island and doing that, and
I remember just like listening with you and on our
own then when we're on like listening to the demo
for the song Public Enemy number one, like I mean
on repeat, Like I don't think there's a single demo.
(50:33):
There's no demo we listened to that much. Maybe a
single song that we listened to so incessantly it was
that was so mind blowingly good. It was incredible. I
remember listening to it all the time. I'm trying to
think with what were the other things that were like
that were like they really took over our lives for
a period of time. Can you remember, oh, Eric Eric
(50:55):
B for President? Yeah, well I didna say that school
school D school, school E G S YO PSK people
and nothing but squares. Remember like how many times we
would listen to that in your dorm room and everywhere else,
like yeah, when he especially that thing of like school,
(51:17):
like school, these whole intro on that thing, like nah,
no school, school, what time is it? What was his
DJ's name? Code? Money, money, get your feed code, my
(51:37):
code code? So good? Oh man, such good records, so funny.
I mean, I guess whatever we are of a certain age,
so we that's but we will talk about often, like
it is incredible how many great rap records were coming out,
like nine, like just mind blowingly good rap records. I'm
(52:02):
trying to remember which were the what were the other
ones that really like moved the needle for us? Sucker
MCS was everything obviously right, I read D m C
were the I mean they were the archetypes. They were
like you know, I mean the Jay talked so much
about performing and how to sort of put a rap
show together, um and how to you know, I think
(52:24):
that along with you how to put a rap record together.
Was there anything else that we had that wasn't out,
like like with the Public Enemy tape. Howey, he's a demo.
I remember bis Market was out. I remeber when we
heard that first bis Marquee and talking about it with
D M C and Jay and being really excited about it.
(52:44):
You had a demo for uh slick Rick Children's story. Righ.
Remember loved that right right, because that was another thing.
I mean, Lotti Dotting in the show. We must have
we must listened to a Lotti Dotting the show again,
unquantifiable amounts of times. Do you remember the story of
let me we're letting me clear my throat came from?
(53:06):
I have a vague I have a memory, but I
don't know if it's accurate. No, tell me, I don't.
My memory was that on l L's demo tape that
you found in the box of demo tapes, that that
came to the dorm before he started rhyming, he said,
let me clear my throat, and and I remember that
(53:28):
we for whatever reason, it was the funniest thing we
ever heard. It made I mean it was, It wasn't
there was nothing funny about it, but somehow the idea
that that was the first thing said before the the
song starts. I know it's so easy to take that out, now,
(53:49):
do you know? It's so it's so easy. But back
then you couldn't. You just you didn't know how to
take stuff out, and just whatever you recorded was on there. Yeah, yeah,
it was. It was. It was nothing. But for some reason,
I remember we latched onto It's like, this is just
the funniest thing we've ever heard. We just latched onto it,
(54:10):
and I can't remember how it ended up getting into
the song. I'm sure you were like, wait, let you
should say let you should scream at really angrily. That's funny.
It's so dumb. But again, it's the beauty of It's
in such a different context too, though, on this on
(54:30):
our song as opposed to his demo tape. Yeah, well
that's the beauty of the montage of hip hop. That's
how like pre contextualizing things that you find in the world. Yeah,
any other memories of dance Materia. I feel like that
was sort of the place that I remember we went
to the most. So many I mean so much, so many. Um, alright,
(54:52):
where are we sorrying? I mean really that it was
the first place since we would talk to girls. I
thought you were you were just claiming junior high school status,
so you're doing all kinds of things. But all right,
dance there. I would say, like me, just like hearing
(55:13):
you didn't know. They were like the songs that you
would hear every every night, like uh uh app shoot
You Down, or or new or um Confusion you'd hear
like every single night or didn't didn't medium, medium, medium, medium.
My favorite top three favorite things of Danceingteria was being
(55:38):
on that dance floor room, second floor, just in the
corner by the stairs, would always be hanging out. The
music would be playing, people be dancing, and there was
some guy in the middle of the crowd would be like,
wren't that body. It wasn't just like once, It was
like every night. Memories of the Roxie. I remember the Rocks.
(55:59):
I remember two things. I remember African Bambada playing, Uh,
Tony Basil, You're oh, Mickey, You're so fine at the
Roxy so like you know, I'm there like a white
kid at the Rosy thing. It's like the most de
boy place ever. And here's African Bambada, one of the
most important hip hop DJs ever, and he's playing Tony
(56:22):
Basil like you know not, there's nothing that I thought
of rap like music like that. When I associated with
Tony Basil and I was just like, Wow, that's incredible
that he could make Tony Basil old, Nicky, you're so fine.
Work in the Roxy was incredible that and then I
just remember being scared to go to the bathroom at
(56:45):
the Roxy. Roxy. It was just it was just like
dudes like selling coke and getting high and like shi,
it was scary. I just felt like I was gonna
get robbed in the bathroom. Yeah, me too. Well. That
that I remember because I went of Roxy when I
was a kid because it was a roller skating place
and so I don't I don't know how to roller scape,
(57:06):
but like it's like a thing you go and hang
out at the roller skating place. And so then later
a few years later, Roxy was a thing where we
would go to, you know, the disco, and I remember
when we were there. I don't know it was the
first time we're there, but then like sucking shots rang
out and someone had a gun and was shooting and
people running. I was like, this is not the same
thing from when I was eleven, twelve, you know whatever,
(57:30):
it's it was a place you put a bunch of
teenage dudes in the same place. Some weird ship's going
to happen. Why is that it is the case? But
why teenage dudes is stupid? I don't know what to say.
I'm thinking about that the Hey Mickey reference that the
embody used and that probably lead that hearing that there
(57:52):
probably was a step in why the song It's Tricky
got made? Are there? You gonna say a world destruction
and for him it's like the same beat? Yeah, because
the world destruction is like the same beat. Yeah, yeah,
I just I just remember it's tricky being like feeling
(58:14):
there were certain vibes that you would feel at a
hip hop club that stood out that we're different than
the others. It's like, hmm, how do you incorporate that?
Because that definitely feels good, like we're in the club,
this feels great. That's now part of the language. Like
that felt like, okay, that's part of the language in
hip hop and be if you were in a band
and somebody in a band did a waltz beat instead
(58:38):
of a four four beat, and you'd say, oh, that's
a new part of the vocabulary. You can write a
song with a waltz beat, no matter to wald speat.
I got, you know, I got tons of songs of
Wald Speeds. Oh wait, one thing Wick I did want
to say is you were talking about how I don't
even know how to explain it to people, or maybe
it's not even worth trying to explain. But like we
were talking about opening from Madama, it that it's it's
(59:01):
also it's very interesting. Look obviously we've we've changed a
lot through the years, but it's it's it's interesting to
me because people know I feel like relate to us,
or a lot of people know us just from like
life and still little Beast Boys, and then there's a
lot of people that grew up with us for a
lot of stuff whatever, but a lot of people know
it's just like it's in that um incarnation license at
(59:24):
all time. And I think it's interesting with you. You
were like such a big part of like when we're
opening up from the data and this like this whole
idea like persona. But then people actually know you now,
like from your persona now, not from like like how
you would talk then, And I don't even know how
(59:44):
to explain when I try to explain to people how
you would talk in sort of like when you're excited about,
like for wrestling, and how you would do that I
don't even know how to capture it or explain it. Yeah,
it's definitely a ramped up character there, uh inspired by
like Roddy Piper would be one of the key get
Rick Flair. The the guys who would who you'd want
(01:00:08):
to see lose and who would often find a way
to win through cheating. Um. But they were the funniest.
They always like the bad guys in wrestling. The bad
guys have the best lines. So they were the most
charismatic and funniest characters. So put on that air has
to do with Youth, Michael, Youth, don't give a fuck.
(01:00:30):
Thank you for doing this. Great to see you, Adam,
I miss you, I love you, and I look forward
to continuing uh bridging bridging the years that that we've missed.
I love you too. Nice to talk to you. Thank you, Rigors.
Great to see you, Spike A pleasure. I miss you.
I mist see later you guys right. Thanks to Mike, Adam,
(01:00:55):
and Spike for taking the time to catch up with Rick.
You can hear all our favorite Beast Voice songs plus
the other songs mentioned in this episode by heading the
Broken Record podcast dot com and be sure to check
out our YouTube channel where you can find some great
bonus material for past episodes. You can subscribe at YouTube
dot com slash broken Record Pods. Broken Record is produced
(01:01:16):
with help from Jason Gambrel, Meal, La Belle, Leo Rose,
and Martin Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Theme musics by Kenny Beats.
I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.
It's been almost thirty five years since the Beastie Boys
released the all time classic Licensed to Ill, and while
some of the record's lyrics and antics sounds dated as
a Porky's Movies, the album is still exceptional for Beastie
Boys fans. Licensed to Ill is a glimpse into the
lives of m C A ad Rock, Mike d and
their first DJ producer, Rick Rubin. Their debut album as
(00:23):
a pastiche of inside jokes in musical inspiration pulled from
the classic rock and hip hop records they listened to
and Rick's college dorm room. Rick recently connected with Mike
d ad Rock and Spike Jones, who directed the New
Beasties documentary. With Spike playing moderator. They teleport back to
the early eighties and talk about their lives leading up
to the release of Licensed to Ill. It's all here,
(00:46):
the inspiration behind Brass Monkey, Rix, Infamous Bubble Machine and
hy DJ Double R bailed on the Beastie's first big break,
opening up from Madonna on her Like a Virgin tour.
In this is broken record line of notes for the
digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. It's been about twenty years
(01:12):
since Rick and Adam Horvits have talked, and like most
Zoom calls, their reunion gets off to a glitchy start.
Mike d kicks things off. Oh who's Adam, what's up, sir?
Ricky look different. It's good to see you. You look
the same. Yeah, No, that's a lot. That is an abomination, Mike.
(01:35):
He looked great. Don't start, Adam, don't start. Don't start. Rick.
First of all, very nice to see. It's been a
long long time. The last time I can remember a
speaking was that one of the Tibetan freedom shows. You
have a good memory. Then I don't remember that, and
that had to be. But I mean, just time wise,
putting a time stamp on it that was at least
(01:56):
twenty years ago. It's unbelievable. It's surreal, and it makes
no sense. I mean, from my perspective, it makes no sense.
I'll say, I haven't I don't know why it worked
out that we've not hung out in that amount of time.
I'm just I've been so busy, you know. I can
(02:16):
remember there was a little window of time that we
started spending a little bit of time together in Los Angeles,
right when you came to Los Angeles after I was
already there and um and I can remember we had
lunch at Hugos. God, damn, I don't remember anything. Oh yeah,
going back in the Hugo's days. Michael trying to talk
(02:37):
pasta Alla Mama. Yeah, Michael trying to talk right now.
We hung had a handful of times, and I remember
seeing you and I think some something happened that I
don't know what happened at the party for the Blood
Sugar Sex Magic album. At the it was that album,
That's what happened. Oh. Like, uh, I got daggers today
(03:01):
coming with all the cylinders. You guys, we can we
can see, we can see, we can see. I'm in
I'm in a mood today, dude. I adam for your
along with your daggers. I think you need like you
need a bank of sound effects like you know, Doug Siren. No, no, no,
I'm just in a mood. Let's get all the dagger out.
Let's let's do let's what's and what's the show? Rick?
(03:23):
What what happens on your show? What's what is it?
I wouldn't call it a show, it's a It's usually
a conversation. And I talked to different artists and they
tell me stories about what they do. It's not unlike
what happens in a recording session before the music gets made.
That's typically what it's like, just kind of and and
(03:44):
especially if it's someone that I don't know learning who
they are. Can I start with a question, which I
know is but I'm just curious, so I want to
ask it. Do you find that you more often find
out things that you don't know about people that you
do know when they're doing your show, Or do you
find stuff about somebody you do know that's doing your
(04:06):
show more so in an unexpected way than somebody who
you don't know at all who's doing your show where
you have no background. In both cases, I learned a
tremendous amount about the people I'm talking to. It's maybe
more unusual with people that I know, because I get
to talk about things that we don't normally talk about,
Like I was thinking about even from the time that
(04:27):
we knew each other back in the day, stuff we
never talked about, Like I wanted to ask you guys
about high school, Like I don't know what your experience
in high school, and I was just curious, Like, wow,
I was around it was about the time you guys
were just either just ending high school or just recently
ending high school, and like, what was that like? We
never talked about that. Well, it's funny to think, actually,
(04:50):
as you say that, because we spent so much time
in your dorm room, I've never once pictured you in
a class. I had no idea. I've never even thought
that you actually like attended class. Yeah, I didn't. I
didn't attend many. Right, Well, it's interested conversely, when we
were in your dorm room us because we were not
going to school, right, So it's like, yeah, but that's
(05:13):
a good point. We never ever talked about we I
never ever asked you about n y U ever. We
just for our perspective, we just thought, well, this is cool,
Like this guy lives in a dorm, he's going to college,
and we're in high school. So this like, this is cool.
Like you were like, we thought you were going to
be the cool like you turned you know, you're like
(05:34):
the cool, excitely older guy. And then and then also mistakenly,
I think we thought, wow, we're gonna be hanging out
in this dorm, which just means we're gonna beat like
tons of girls, and this is gonna be great, and
we never talked to anybody. It was not. But it
was not like that mean for you to mind, Adam.
What was your what was your school experience like on
(05:55):
st um? Well, I was. I went. I was supposed
to go to Brooklyn Heck, because I wanted to go
to Stuyveson, but I didn't get in, and so I
went to Brooklyn Tech. And that was just too weird.
That's a whole other story, but tell it, tell that story.
What was weird about it? No, Brooklyn, Like I wanted
to go to Stuyveson because my best friend Arthur went there,
and um and I didn't get in. So I went
(06:17):
to the other school you could go to was a
technical school in Brooklyn, and it was massive and they
had like metal detectors to get in and it was
this huge technical school and I, like I quickly realized
after like the third day, like this is not for me.
I don't know what it's fright. It was just so overwhelming.
Looking back, I wish I would have actually stayed and
(06:38):
learned something technical actually what could have helped me? But
um so I just stopped going to school for a while.
And then my dad got me into the school Mcberniey.
That was a private school of town, and I was
there for a couple of years and then I stopped going,
probably right around the time I met you. And not
that the two things, not that two things are related.
(06:58):
I'm just saying, what was the experience like of the school,
Like what were the kids like the experience going going
to school? Because I was also I got into graffiti
because we were into graffiti and so like that was
the fun part about getting to school. Is just like
being on the train and watching this, you know, just
seeing who was on there and all that stuff in
the school. The first school was was just overwhelming. It
(07:20):
was I can't even describe. It was just huge with
thousands of kids. It was just a massive school. And
then McBurney was like a preppy school. It was like
a I don't know, I just seemed felt really out
of place there. I felt kind of dirty, like my
clothes are dirty. Well can you tell tell us the story, Adam,
Why you never returned to mcbernie Oh? Yeah, So they
(07:42):
had the school play was gonna be Oliver, and so
I did. They had auditions and I and I sang
for the audition. Consider yourself at home and I never
really sang out loud before, and I was so bad
that I just left the school that never went back. Incredible,
(08:03):
But I will say I think you'd be a good
artful artful dodger artful, be good like even now then
now in between, I know, but it was singing. I
can't say, as you know, I can't sing. I mean
I can, but it's just bad. Yeah, yeah, it's not
You're you know, you're not rapping Forte, I get it, Adam.
(08:24):
Did you get into graffiti before before hip hop music
or were they simultaneous later later hip hop later? No?
Rap music first? Definitely okay, And do you remember what
were the record stories that you guys hung out in.
Did you guys hang out record stores all? I knew
you hung out at rat Cage, But was that like
the first record store where you would like spend time
(08:46):
but like the rat Cage you were at like that
that was the first record store where I, like, I
felt comfortable talking to the person behind the counter. I
would go to breaker Bob's all the time, like get
like get off the train coming home from school like
a bleaker Bob's, and I'd be terrified because Bob was
always there. You yell at you know, yell at you
(09:07):
yell at me. And he had that huge Doberman pincher.
She was scary and yeah, and they were always mean
to me. Do you mean to everybody? You would always
say random, weird jewish stuff. To me, I was just
like a little kid. I just wanted to find out
about what cool, what was new? It was cool and
I didn't know and they were so neat, but then
there was cool. I do remember going to nine nine Records. Yeah,
(09:28):
that's where I hung out. I loved I loved nine nine.
My memory of the of those days were that the
whole schedule of the day was based around going to
the club. Did you guys feel that way as well
or no? Oh? Yeah, like that was the that was
really the primary thing every day was what club was
(09:50):
going to be that night, if there was going to
be a band if not, what DJs to go to
see and where to hang out. Well that's why the
Rackage Records Star was great because it was the first
record store that kids hung out at for me, at least,
I mean the other recordsters that I used to go to,
you know, kids wouldn't really hang out and Bleaker Bob's maybe,
(10:12):
but that I didn't like it there, and so Rackage
was like a meeting place, like a hangout place. And
later your dorm room was going moving the needle forward along,
like when we would hang out with you and we
go to your dorm room. I remember like every day
like it was just kind of like go to your
dorm room and then figure out what we were doing
that night, and what we were doing that night always
(10:33):
revolved around what club we were going to. I remember
it always being around music. Even during the day. We
would make mixtapes and sometimes sit out on the front,
uh the front of the dorm with boom box and
listen to music. And it seemed like that's all that
it was. That's all it was going on. All that
(10:53):
seemed important was music and what we were going to
eat and what we were going to listen to. And
my it was clearly focused on hooking up. I was interested.
I wasn't very good, uh in that arena, yeah, but
(11:14):
but yeah, but I was interested. Where did the original
Volkswagen emblem come from? That was from my friend Laura Shilson.
It was on her wall. So wait, wait, I understand,
but it wasn't on her wall on that chain. Yeah,
I don't remember there. I think she just had it
on the wall. She took it off a car, and
(11:37):
for some reason I had it and then put it
on a string and then you took it. That's what
I love about being a teenager, how much stuff just
sort of goes from one kid to the next to
the next. I just I remember. I feel like I
feel like you and Yea came over and it was
like you gave it to me in a glorious presentation. Yeah.
(11:58):
I like my revisionist history. I feel like like something
like it's almost like I feel like I was knighted,
like you guys gave me bestowed. It was bestowed upon
you upon me, and then I could become Mike D.
I'm going to dispute that, because think about it, what
have I ever given you? I feel like I feel
(12:18):
like I remember this happening though, I feel like I
was there for that. Yes, but I do feel like
and I don't know how it ended up being on
the chain, because I don't think it was on that
chain somehow, like that chain was like sitting around and
I don't remember that exactly, but I remember them. Once
I started wearing that, it was kind of like then
(12:40):
it was like I felt like everybody felt like, all right,
I could I could beat Mike d Now that was
your Superman cave. Yes, it was wow when you first
met these guys, what was like? What are Can you
think of a time where there sometimes when you were like, oh,
I get them, I understand who they are, Like I
understand who Yaki is or who Adam is or who
(13:00):
Mike is. Like, what was your sense of that? Well?
I remember meeting Adam first through Dave Skilkin, and I
remember Dave Skilkin was sort of in my mind the glue,
like he was a kid who was just uh, super
friendly and outgoing, which I don't think any of any
of us were. I thought we met you and I
met because of Nick Cooper. Could be wrong. I remember
(13:22):
Nick Cooper, but I didn't remember that's how we met.
I do remember I remember Nick Cooper telling us about
you and being like, yeah, there's this I I you
gotta meet him because we we put cooking us out.
We really needed a DJ. It's like, you gotta meet him.
He's into like the stuff that you guys are into,
(13:43):
and he's a d K and he's got all the equipment.
According to Nick and Wheber I asked your He's like,
he's got a bubble machine. That was his big line.
It's true. I'll see that. I'm it's true. Rick is
confirming the bubble It's true that I had I had
access to aubble machine. Okay, I never know. You were
(14:04):
writing the book, you were like Rick, and no, I
said the bubble machine, and You're like, I don't think so.
And then you called Rick and Rick was like, yeah,
I don't know about bubble machine. I was like, you
both are crazy, because there was definitely a bubble was
a bubble machine. Why else would you want to meet
someone exactly they have a bubble machine. Okay, I'll go
(14:25):
the funny. The funny thing is is that the bubble
machine was something that just was at the dorm. It's like, uh,
and when I heard that there was a bubble machine there,
It's like, oh, wow, we gotta have a party. We
have a bubble machine now, so let's have a party.
And that was where the bubble machine story began. Rick.
But I'm curious that about like just what your relationship
(14:46):
with each of them was, Like I can remember spending
the most time with Adam, and it seemed like our
friendship had mostly to do with music, because that's what
we We just listen to music all the time, as
I recalled, and d Jay in music. And then I
think I met the other guys through the story of
Cookie Puss, after Cookie Puss was already out, and then
(15:09):
wanting a DJ, and then I came to a couple
of shows in DJ after the after the live set.
As I recall hard to remember first impressions. I remember
seeing Mike before I met Mike at the Grille one night,
and I remember someone saying, Oh, that that's one of
the guys in the Beastie Boys, And I remember thinking
(15:31):
it was just like, uh, it was just a weird
I had a weird impression, not good or bad, just
like he's a kid, feels like maybe my age, maybe
a little younger, and he's in a band, and and
I remember he was I think, I think you may
have been pretty inebriated that night, Mike, and I just
(15:52):
remember thinking, Wow, this guy seems like a little like uh,
it seems like revd Up, you know, like revd Up.
He's like tough, tough guy, Mike, You mean like he's
just like bad boy. No, no, no, just like like
enjoying himself. Like he was hitting it hard. Yeah, he
goes hard in the paint. He went hard in the pain.
(16:12):
He was going hard in the paint and it was impressive.
Come on. I don't remember him being inebriated that night,
which doesn't mean that I wasn't. But what I do.
What I do I do remember is two things. One
is that was a really really important for like us,
for you, Rick is like a part of us, like
because that was like where we really saw like hip
hop came, like I talked about it in the book,
(16:33):
where hip hop came downtown and all of a sudden
there's the Treacherous Three And then I think it was
like the next week was Africa, Benbada and Chassy j
If it wasn't that night whatever, and it was like this,
it was the most exciting thing. But so my thing
in terms of compensated, I think there's like, of course
I was completely It's funny cause I like I think
(16:53):
about I think back on those n grill nights and
I think, wow, I was like so intimidated, was so
scared to be there. But I was lucky every second
of it. I was. There was no like club night.
Maybe that was more influential or exciting to me, but
but I was compensating for being intimidated. Probably like because
(17:15):
I was with like my group of like friends, I
was probably acting like, oh, yeah, I got this, but
I definitely didn't have it at all. Rick, Well, what
did you know about about the Beastie Boys at that
point or what did you what was your impression of him?
Had you ever heard of him? I don't think I
knew anything. I think the first thing that I heard
of the Beastie Boys was Cookie Posts, which I loved,
(17:36):
and I remember I was in San Francisco and I
heard it at she was a writer and a yeah.
I think it might have been in Powers and I
think I was stay staying at her like lofty place,
and I think I heard it there. I don't know
if she played it or if I heard it on
the radio in San Francisco when I was there, but
(17:58):
I remember the connection of being at her house and
hearing it and um, and I thought, wow, that's really
cool because I was really really into hip hop at
the time, and I felt like it was the first
punk rock expansion towards hip hop. That's what it felt like.
It was as much a punk I would say it
(18:18):
was as much a punk rock record as it was
anything else. Compared to hip hop records, it was punk rock,
but compared to other punk rock records, it was more
hip hop. And I remember thinking, wow, it's really cool
and and it and it had a and I remember
laughing at it and laughing at it with it, you know,
like laughing with it, thinking this is really funny, it's
(18:39):
really good. And I remember I remember, I remember Yak
and his motorcycle jacket and his long raincoat, and at
one point I felt like him and Nick Cooper kind
of had a similar raincoat vibe, you know that raincoat vibe. Yeah.
I don't remember how I met Nick Cooper, but I
(19:00):
remember that to me, it felt like an anomaly. But
in both cases, the raincoat vibe was not something you
saw kids in New York wearing like it was. It
was a fashion statement to where uh long, somewhat dressy raincoat. Yeah. Yeah,
the raincoat vibe played played strong when I first met
(19:23):
Yak at that This Bad Brains show at Botany Talkhouse,
and he was the only other kid my Agia was there.
I was like, Wow, this is the kids wearing like
a trench coat and his combat boots and his like
hairs spiked up, like this kid's really cool. Yeuck actually
kept that raincoat thing for that trench coat for a
long time. Yeah, that trench coat vibe worked, I was
(19:47):
gonna say. I also remember Yak's obsession with the Bad Brains,
like it felt like nothing else in the world existed
other than the Bad Brains and kept that going for
a long time too. Yeah, And I uh remember as
a as a music fan seeing that sort of obsessive
(20:07):
dedication and just thinking, wow, he's really again going hard,
like he's going hard for this thing that he loves.
Did you do you feel like you've got the answers
that you wanted? Yeah? Well, actually I'm always curious what
what uh I mean? When you're like eighteen, it's kind
of hard, Like how would you describe somebody you meet?
(20:28):
Is kind of hard because it's more about like what
what common interests like having the same music interests, But
did you have a sense during like just not knowing
these guys then how you would describe each of them?
I never really thought about it. I did feel like
I definitely felt that I felt like, UM, the place
(20:49):
that I grew up in and and the people I
was around and where I grew up I had a
big impact on what I what I saw, what I knew.
I felt like their life experience was very different than mine,
and it was just interesting and in some ways, Um,
I thought it was a good thing, and in some
(21:10):
ways I thought it was a bad thing from from
my perspective, And what way and what way was it good?
What way was it bad? You're talking about like a
long night link kid versus a city kid kind of right, Yeah,
I would say like they had better access than I had,
because this is pre Internet. Like now, everyone could find
out anything they want about anything. Where I was, it
(21:32):
was hard to find out anything about anything I would.
I'd spend a lot of time in the library doing research,
and even and even that research wasn't sort of cultural
of the moment research, It was just what I could
learn about the things I was interested in. And then
spending a lot of time in record stores is my
closest way of having any connection to culture because where
(21:53):
I lived, there wasn't it didn't really exist. Although there
was a club called there are a couple of nightclubs,
and I did get to see like the Specials played
in my hometown, which was remarkable. Um on the downside,
I felt like maybe by living in the city, it
(22:16):
might narrow the view of what was cool, Like I
didn't know what was cool coming from where I came from.
And the beauty of that was I could I could
see and hear everything. There was very little peer pressure
about about that where I lived, whereas I could see
if you were in the city there was stuff that
was cool to like it not cool to like, and
(22:38):
that could have a limiting effect. I mean, I guess, yeah,
I heard led Zeppelin playing from like other kids at school,
but because kind of like to your point, I had
already decided, like I was so set on making my
identity about being into stuff that those kids weren't into,
(22:58):
I couldn't hear led Zeppe. But then when we were
in your dorm room and all of a sudden, you know,
you put on when the levee breaks, We're like, was
this It's like the best thing ever? Or like a
C D C or you know, what do you tell me, Mike? First,
tell me your memories of the dorm room. First of all,
it's the first college dorm I'd ever have been in
(23:20):
period here in high school. Um, I remember like just
being intimidated, like going up to the desk and I
guess it must have been like maybe Mr Rick Rick
Mazilla the desk and like having to get the pass
or whatever to go up in the elevator being you
get the visitor pass because we're visiting you, and then
I and then I remember being kind of confused because
(23:42):
you had a roommate, but then you I think you
had a roommate, right, I actually need you to kind
of like explain this to us, but I think you
had a roommate when we first went there. But you
had this huge p A in the in the dorm
room with like to sir Win Vega, you know, like
there's like the biggest PA I've ever seen, like like
(24:03):
somebody that I knew have. And then with the turn
tables and like the drum machine and everything and so
so we loved it and we're impressed it all this equipment,
but I was very confused. I was like, wait, how
does Rick just like we were listening to music really
loud in your dorm room, which and I loved it.
But how were you How is this guy able to
(24:25):
do this and like not get kicked out of the
dorm room and where is this roommate? Like I was
just a lot of questions. Yeah, yes, all all of that, Adam,
what were your what were your memories of the dorm room?
You know, first of all, I was looking for a
place to be basically, you know, sort of in life
(24:45):
and literally like not going to school and needing somewhere
to be. But also being around you know, older kids
is cool when you're younger, you know, intimidating, but you know,
kind of cool. You're like, oh, you kind of think
that you're one of the you know, older kids now.
And it was just it was just cool, you know,
especially going to your dorm room. You had just the records,
(25:07):
this stuff like you know, two turntables, a drum machine.
I was like, I loved it. I didn't have you know,
I didn't have that stuff. I didn't have all those records,
So it was great. I loved it. I mean, yeah,
like Ricky talked about access, and yes we did we
did have like growing up in New York City when
we talked about in the book and the show whatever
your woe was a huge thing to us, that we
(25:29):
would just hear music all around us, or that we
go to rackcas because we want to find out what's
happening that night, and somebody say, oh, this thing's happening,
and we would just go there because we had this
access as teenagers. But but in your dorm room, it
was just really exciting because I went out of sid
we would I remember, like I was my I was
again like kind of confused, but so impressed when you
(25:52):
you would come off, you would I think I felt
like you would come if they delivered it to you,
or if you'd come back every week with like a
great record from the record pool. Yeah, and you remember that,
and we'd all go we'd go through them and put
like basically everyone on to see what was good, what
we like, what we didn't like, whatever we listened to
every twelve inch from that week. That was such like
(26:13):
an exciting Like I didn't I didn't have the like
I had the money to get a single, like a
rap single every once in a while, but I certainly
would never think and never had the money to buy
two copies of the same record. That just seems nuts
and so to go to your place and you had
two copies of all these singles that I loved, and
(26:35):
we had two turns. It was just amazing. You know,
it was nice to see you too. Obviously I should
I feel used. I never did get that Bubba machine access.
But then also I think and Adam and I've talked
about this, like there was it was interesting. We felt
like we were trying to just think back at you know,
(26:56):
when we first like we met you, then we started
working with you. It's like you especially like once you
started starting, when you started producing uh with us and
producing our records, it was like you had this confidence Rick,
that was like you know, it's not like every either
any of us were like, well Rick, what what record
have you done? You know what I mean? Like and
(27:17):
and we're all whenever, we're all of its eighteen years old,
but it's like you had this confidence, like you knew
how you wanted things to sound. And looking back at it, like,
I'm just so impressed honestly with that, Like who It's
got to be pretty rare that somebody like eighteen, nineteen,
twenty years old knows how they want, like what kind
(27:41):
of what types of records they want to make Yeah,
it's it's weird. I I definitely knew, I had a
clear vision of what I wanted to hear. Really as
a fan, it wasn't It was more, um, I just
loved it, and I knew how certain things made me feel,
and I wanted more of the ones that made me
feel good and less of the ones that didn't make
(28:03):
me feel as good. And it was very pure. It
was the same way, the same way that you connected
to it. I just and I think maybe part of
it might have been that I didn't have brothers or sisters.
You guys both had siblings, and I think that changes it.
It's like I spent most of my time until I
(28:24):
started hanging out with you guys by myself, so it
wasn't The only opinion that I was around was my own.
You know, I didn't have an older brother playing me
music I didn't have. I didn't have it all sort
of had. I had to find it and and see
(28:45):
what resonated with me. And it had very little to
do with the people around me, because like in my
high school, nobody like punk rock. I was the only
person who like punk rock, So I had no sense
of community at all. When I started listening to hip hop.
At least there were a couple the kids in my
high school who liked hip hop. Well, I'm gonna change
the subject for a sec because there is something that
(29:06):
I wanted to know Rick. Yes, So, Spike, I don't
know if you know this, But so we got the
gig to open from Madonna on tour and Rick was
the BC Boys DJ DJ Double R. And we played
a couple of shows, um, and then he was gone
and uh. And he said that his doctor said he
(29:29):
had an inner ear situation that he couldn't fly. And
so I thought that that answer couldn't fly. And so
now I'm asking you, Rick, did you just not want
to do it? Or did you really have an ear problem? True?
Both both answers are flying with me. No, no no, no,
of course true. I went to the the clinic on
(29:51):
fourteen There was a ear, nose, and throat clinic on
four Teams. I had never been there before, and I
went there and they said, you have a terrible infection
in your ear. You gotta take these drugs and you
cannot fly. If you fly, you'll probably lose your hearing
in that ear. So that was and we and I
(30:11):
It's funny because I don't remember us talking about it.
But also maybe part of the reason we didn't talk
about it was because it was the tour was already ongoing,
wasn't it. It was like we were so I feel
like we did, Like, no, you don't. You flew out,
Like you started the tour with us in like Seattle
and Portland or something, and then for some reason you
(30:33):
had to fly back to New York. But we were
still on tour and you were you were supposed to
meet us again, like in Los Angeles or something, and
then instead of meeting us, you're like, you know you
you had the ear infection. Yeah, now we're finding out
was legit. But at the time we were like ear infection, Well,
(30:54):
I'll tell you everything. Feel free to ask me. Everything
was always legit. It's like, I don't I would have
loved to. I loved being in the band, I loved
doing the shows. It was it was completely thrilling. I
loved it. I feel in some ways it's like the
the universe has this incredible power to affect my ear
(31:18):
and make me stay in one place. And then it
led to me focusing all my attention into production instead
of being in a band which could have been like
it could have been, that could have happened, and it
just sort of worked out the way Maybe it was
supposed to. I don't know. It feels like in retrospect,
looking back, I would have never made that choice. While
(31:40):
I'll say I didn't like traveling, I loved the experience
of playing in the band. It was super fun. I
thought the shows were great, Like I can remember I
can remember us playing at Radio City and uh, just
how much the audience didn't like it, And I just
thought it was incredibly punk rock and fun. I can
(32:03):
remember Madison Square Garden and thinking it was in It
was just like, we're playing at Madison Square Garden. Can
you believe this? We didn't even really we didn't have
an album out. It was unbelievable, Right, What were the
shows like? Rick? Uh? It was? It was funny because
we got to do the the Crazy Beastie Boys show
(32:24):
and lean into the craziness of uh of this sort
of hell persona, the bad guy persona, and in front
of an audience where it was completely inappropriate, which made
it even funnier. It's like, it's it's like if you're
if You're if you're doing a punk rock show in
front of a punk rock audience, there's this camaraderie there.
(32:47):
And if you're doing a punk rock show in front
of people who are not feeling it, it really gets
punk rock. It's like it gets it gets elevated to
this other thing, not for anybody but us. I mean
I found it thrilling. Um, I'm I know the audience
hated it, but that was sort of part of the
(33:07):
fun of it. Why then't even more than hated it?
And and I think that's where it became thrilling to us,
was that like these twelve year old girls and maybe
more importantly their parents were genuinely horrified. They were they
were repulsed. I mean, and to be right, I had
to be there. We're a bunch of like little white
(33:28):
kids yelling at them on stage like you should be.
It's like, what was offensive? And yeah, and for the record,
like Ricky, you know you obviously had a big that
was that was another thing like along with introducing us
to heavy metal led Zeppelin, Sabbath, b C, D C.
You we also like the wrestling thing was never cool.
(33:49):
That was uncool to us, right because we were these
punk rock kids it's still uns uncol to everybody, but
you were totally you d like this like vocabulary in
that world, and you immediately saw like this opportunity with
the madonitory that like, oh, it was like obviously you like, no, guys,
(34:10):
what do you mean, You're just gonna be It's just
like wrestling. You know, you had So it's just pretty
weird to think about. Most people don't think about, like
if you have a band, it's going to open up
for this somebody who was like a cultural icon who
couldn't have been you couldn't have had a bigger on
the planet at that moment. Madonna like the biggest star
(34:30):
in the world. Most people just thinking like, how do
you put a good show together? And you you saw
it through this totally other lens. It was like, no,
it's obvious, it seems like wrestling. Well, the other part
of it was is, no matter what we did, the
audience was there to see Madonna and they weren't gonna
like what we did regardless. So to to really lean
(34:52):
into that idea of well where the we're the bad
guys here? Where where the enemies and too and to
overcome that to play it with all this bravado, like
you're here to see me and like it's just so ridiculous,
so funny. Adam, do you remember the stuff you said?
I remember you said some really most come on, you guys.
(35:14):
Most remember the big, the best and biggest flowing was
I am the King of the Paramount, Like whatever theater
we are at, That's how Adam would open up the show,
I am the King. Um, you know Madison Square Garden.
Do you, Adam, do you see the humor in this now? Really? Now?
(35:36):
Of course I do. It's you're like, I you have
this space like I didn't like it? No, no, no, no,
we we also we also just did this show a
bunch of times in the movie, and it's like it's
fresh in here. Um, it was amazing, it was hilarious.
It's a it's a it's a it's not a it's
not a wild idea, but it's a it's a it
(35:58):
is a great idea. You know, they're not gonna like us.
They're certainly not gonna love us. They might possibly be
like I didn't like that, But if we can guarantee
that they remember us by saying I fucking hated that,
and I will hate this and have this memory of
hatred for a long long time. That's an interesting way
(36:19):
to get your music through to somebody. Yeah, and it worked,
It worked, and we but I remember the time like
being convinced because it was like we look at it
in this like feedboy way of like, yeah, we're gonna
make a name for ourselves, and we did. Rick. One
thing I want to ask about just is a production
on the first record, the uh we you know, we
(36:42):
talked about a little bit in the show, but obviously
we have so much but that like, as as a fan,
there's some bands that take a while to form, and
then some bands that just come out fully formed like
that in that record. And even just actually the way
these guys described you with the confidence, it sounds like
you kind of came out fully formed in some strange,
(37:02):
you know, amazing way. What was like what was the
process of that first record. I can just remember that
every time there was a good idea, we would make
a new song. And I can remember the I remember
two parts. I remember the lyric writing, which would be
basically every night that we went out to the clubs.
I remember trading lines only with the hope of making
(37:23):
the other Remember laugh like I would always say stuff
that I would think would try to make Adam laugh
if we were hanging out, and if he laughed, I
would write it down and just collecting lines, and we
would both we would all do it back and forth
and and collect up these mountains of rhymes, not so
much with a subject or a song in mind. Most
(37:47):
of the time it was more just good lines. Then
I can remember being in the studio sometimes with Adam,
sometimes myself, just making tracks because it's what I was
always doing, and would just make tracks and um and
just trying to make something interesting and and I don't
think I could separate it in my head, but I
(38:08):
knew the beats for l L were different than the
beats for the BEASTI Boys, and the beats for the
Best Boys were different than the beats for Run DMC.
And it seemed clear to me, But I can't put
a finger on what was different. But I knew as
they were as we were making them. It's like, oh,
this one, this one feels like LLLBAT and this one
(38:30):
feels like this could be a really good Beast Boys records,
those those like gated snare drums. I don't know. I
can't say I can't. I can't put a finger on
what it was. Do you remember sometimes making the record
where it's like, oh, this is what, like it sort
of gave clarity to what the whole record is, like
a decision, a beat, a lion. No. I remember I
was in Electric Lady working on the Cults album Electric
(38:54):
and I got a call from Mike and Mike said, Hey,
how come my records not done yet? And do you
remember this? Mike, No, not at all. This was amazing
because I think this was like you guys were on tour.
I assume I was this must have been post ear infection. Well,
we're probably on Raising Hell at that point, and I
(39:15):
remember like a somewhat heated conversation where you were like, dude,
you did say do that like the equivalent of dude,
why is I mean, we're on tour? Why is our
album not done? And I said, you know, it doesn't.
And I remember it's like it doesn't just happen, Like
(39:35):
it doesn't. Uh, it's not not happening because I don't
want it to happen. It. Uh, each of these things
arrives when it arrives, do you know what I'm saying?
It's like We didn't go into the studio every day
with the idea of, Okay, we're gonna make something today.
It was more like making beats in the dorm, listening
(39:58):
to records, like coming up with what us what a
track was gonna be, which sometimes would be six weeks
or two months between songs. You know, it took. It
was a long period of time. I can't remember from
the time that we made whatever the first song was
for that record. So we made the last song, I'm
guessing it was eighteen months. Could have been two years,
(40:19):
was It felt like a long time. And so also
the other thing you guys talked about in the show
Mike and I'm talking about in the show is going
away on tour and coming back and you'd finished the
record and mixed it, and they were surprised that it
was this big thing where they they thought they were
making a sort of more low fi punk rap record.
Uh talk about that? Was that something you always saw,
you always knew that that was the sound? Not at all.
(40:41):
I in any case, there was no preconception or what
something was supposed to sound like. It was just making
it sound as good as it could sound for what
it was. Whatever it was it's like the same it's
true with LLL or same it's true with raising Hell.
It wasn't like there was no thought to it. And
the gated snare thing was like, uh, it's interesting you
bring it up because it was it was like a
(41:03):
moment in time, and I think it was really what
was the art of noise was that it was the
thing that got everyone excited about this kind of drum
sound and that was probably like experimenting in that art
of noisy way that led to that is my guests,
if you had if you had Art of Noise twelve
(41:23):
inch and Man Parish twelve inch, which one would you
put on first? Both? I like them both. You can't
put on both first, No, I wouldn't. Depends on it
depends on the scenario. Depends on the scene. So you
read a room, Yeah, what is it going off? Can
you turn the fucking roosters down in the next place?
(41:43):
Roosters are feeling it. The roosters are deeper than paint today.
Oh god, I wanted to ask Mike and Adam about
their memories of Chung King also. Oh man, yeah, so
that's a good question. I Well, I'm feeling like I
remember I remember, I think I was. We were with
you Rick and we were talking and Jayburnett was like, oh,
(42:06):
you guys gotta work at this place. I don't. I
don't think he said chunk King's we I feel like
we named chunking. He's just like, you got oh a
seeking is called secret Society, then that's right. He's like,
you gotta work at the studio, my friends, studio secret Society.
But he was like talking about that guess like the
Nive console or something that stuff that as a kid,
I didn't really understand, but he was all excited about it.
(42:27):
So we're like okay, Bet, and then we go there
and it's just kind of like, you know, we don't
really know about studios, but it's just like kind of bummy,
you know, like it's not like nothing, there's nothing fancy
about it. It seems like every other week when we
go there one week and the next week like walls
like they always kept moving balls around. Yeah do you
(42:49):
remember that? Like, yeah, I do. I remember because it
was kind of a loft space that the guy built
out and he was just kind of moving stuff around.
It was a weird place. I remember when we grew etied,
we graffitied the wall behind the console, and at first,
like I kind of remember, we got yelled at. And
then it became the thing of the studios that everybody
came there and did graffiti while they while they recorded.
(43:13):
I remember the first time that we went there, psyched,
We're gonna go to recording studio. I've been to like
the Young and the Users recorded at a nice recording studio.
And this place was like a fucking dump. It was
fucking literally a dead fish in the fish tank. And
it was dark. It was like super dark, like everything
was dark. I was like, why why is it? Why
(43:35):
are we going to the scary like haunted house. Remember
walking up, it was like five flight walk up. It
was dirt, dingy, dirty place. Now. I remember the elevator
because it was all graffitied and somebody wrote their name.
It was all this graffiti and someone wrote jose Ninas
in the top corner And every time we got in
the elevator, we thought that was the funniest name. And
(43:56):
it literally we left every time we were in that
elevator because meanness is a funny last name. I feel
like we we laughed a lot at chum King. Yeah, well,
and on the way there and on the way out
like it was just it's like, I think part of
the key things about license to know what was making it.
(44:17):
It never felt like we're making an album like it
just felt like what you just said that it was
kind of like that was just part of all right,
wake up, go to your dorm room, listen to some records,
you know, go to Cozy super Burger, then whatever club's
going on that night, and if there's an idea studio.
(44:38):
It wasn't like now you know the cold, like Adam said, like,
it's not like we were making an album for this
amount of time. And actually it's funny. I think back
at you talking about me calling you and making that
phone call and asked like, what's up with the record?
I kind of now I'm thinking back at it, and
I remember we were on the Raising Hell tour and
I remember and being really excited run and Russell is
(45:02):
getting me all excited, like like you know, like you
got a call like what's taking so long with your album?
Like you guys should be like run because he'd heard
like by that, you know, he was so excited about
Holding Now, which was hold It Now was like one
of those songs like we're talking about, like we were
out of the club. I remember, like we remember we
(45:23):
went in there and just played around like a bunch
of different like scratching things in off of records, and
I think we even put down the verses. And then
I remember you and Russell kind of like hearing it
after we've already already done some stuff, and you specifically
being really excited about it. You were like actually more
(45:44):
excited even than we were where you were like, yeah,
this this is it, Like this is this is what
you guys need to be making. It was mind blowing.
I loved it. Oh you know, quest Of just told
me a story the other day that I wonder if
you guys know this. In Philly, when Hold It Now
came out as a single, the version that was released
(46:05):
to radio was the a cappella, which we called the Acapulco.
And so in Philly people thought that the song didn't
have a beat or any music or anything. It was
just vocals. Yeah, it was just it was just vocals.
And he thought, Wow, this is the craziest record I
ever heard. It's just this rhyming and he said, And
(46:26):
it was really well liked in Philly, even though it
was such such a crazy you know, the first rap
record not to have any music and um and it
was a hit. And then when the album came out
and it had the beat, nobody liked it because they
were used to the acapella version, which they thought was
just like the greatest thing they ever heard. We were
(46:47):
talking to him and he would say something it just
reminded me of words that we tried to force into
like common you know speak. We'd pick random words and
be like, oh no, this is this is what people say.
Now I can't Why am I blank? I'm kind of
I'm like I'm blanking on him so bad. But we
used we picked like a few different words or phrases.
(47:10):
It would be sometimes to be a phrase to like
you'd hear you'd hear someone say something at the club
that was just normal to them and we would laugh,
like brass Monkey came from Jazzy j talking about what
you like to drink, and just like, yeah, it's like,
what's funnier than brass monkey? Oh my god, brass Monkey
is that was a crazy night with tel Rock. Tell
(47:32):
me I don't I don't remember. So you were producing
a record for a rapper named Tela Rock, and we
were going to go to the studio with you because
that we just that that's also what I like when
you're young, you're just you just go with your friend
wherever they're going. Like it's just funny to think about
going with your friend to their job, Like, no, you
(47:54):
can't come to my job. I'm working. What are you doing?
And so I didn't think about it. The place was
in Queens or Long Island or somewhere. It was like
it was like we had to take a car. It
was really far and me and Skill Calm were there
and it was just nuts. It just seems so growing.
There was like grown ups that we didn't know. I
don't know Tiller Rock, but it was like a real
(48:16):
rap scene. It was just weird. And then Jazz J
passed around a bottle of brass Monkey and me and
Skill Comb were like, this is fucking delicious. Yeah, I
didn't know that you guys, you guys actually drank it.
Oh yeah. The whole night was crazy. And then we
could separated in two separate cars and we're like in
Long Island, were like where are we and getting white Castle? Anyway,
(48:39):
it was it was a really it was a nice night. Yeah,
I remember going. I remember taking cars to white castles.
It was hard in Manhattan. It was hard to get
white castle probably for the best. But what do we
say because rope a dope, like in late eighties rope
and I'm just I just remember one word. We'd say
that ship is dope, and they'd be like, that's dope.
It's rope a dope. And then we were like it
was like, oh, that's rope, and nobody like, did not
(49:03):
laugh rope. We said, but that should it did not laugh.
That is so funny. It's too bad because it's kind
of great. Nobody else was like, oh, that's rope. I
forgot rope. Rope is great. We gotta bring back rope.
Rope is really funny, though it's it's explaining the joke.
(49:26):
It's not that good. I feel like Flavor had a
lot of the flavors normal waves speaking, had a lot
of references that could work their way into songs. Like
of everyone we hung out with, Flavor was a gold
mine of phrases. I just want you to know the
last time I saw Flavor, I was in my car
in New York, stopped at a red light and he
(49:48):
got in my car and I was just like, what's
like someone's getting in my car and it's Flavor and
he's like, yo, let's up. Take me to like thirty
sixth Street, and so I drove him. I was like,
all right, good to see. Wow, it was nuts. Did
did you guys go to at all to the studio
when Public Enemy was recording? No? I just remember I
(50:09):
remember going to their the radio show of the Spectrum
City UH show in Long Island and doing that, and
I remember just like listening with you and on our
own then when we're on like listening to the demo
for the song Public Enemy number one, like I mean
on repeat, Like I don't think there's a single demo.
(50:33):
There's no demo we listened to that much. Maybe a
single song that we listened to so incessantly it was
that was so mind blowingly good. It was incredible. I
remember listening to it all the time. I'm trying to
think with what were the other things that were like
that were like they really took over our lives for
a period of time. Can you remember, oh, Eric Eric
(50:55):
B for President? Yeah, well I didna say that school
school D school, school E G S YO PSK people
and nothing but squares. Remember like how many times we
would listen to that in your dorm room and everywhere else,
like yeah, when he especially that thing of like school,
(51:17):
like school, these whole intro on that thing, like nah,
no school, school, what time is it? What was his
DJ's name? Code? Money, money, get your feed code, my
(51:37):
code code? So good? Oh man, such good records, so funny.
I mean, I guess whatever we are of a certain age,
so we that's but we will talk about often, like
it is incredible how many great rap records were coming out,
like nine, like just mind blowingly good rap records. I'm
(52:02):
trying to remember which were the what were the other
ones that really like moved the needle for us? Sucker
MCS was everything obviously right, I read D m C
were the I mean they were the archetypes. They were
like you know, I mean the Jay talked so much
about performing and how to sort of put a rap
show together, um and how to you know, I think
(52:24):
that along with you how to put a rap record together.
Was there anything else that we had that wasn't out,
like like with the Public Enemy tape. Howey, he's a demo.
I remember bis Market was out. I remeber when we
heard that first bis Marquee and talking about it with
D M C and Jay and being really excited about it.
(52:44):
You had a demo for uh slick Rick Children's story. Righ.
Remember loved that right right, because that was another thing.
I mean, Lotti Dotting in the show. We must have
we must listened to a Lotti Dotting the show again,
unquantifiable amounts of times. Do you remember the story of
let me we're letting me clear my throat came from?
(53:06):
I have a vague I have a memory, but I
don't know if it's accurate. No, tell me, I don't.
My memory was that on l L's demo tape that
you found in the box of demo tapes, that that
came to the dorm before he started rhyming, he said,
let me clear my throat, and and I remember that
(53:28):
we for whatever reason, it was the funniest thing we
ever heard. It made I mean it was, It wasn't
there was nothing funny about it, but somehow the idea
that that was the first thing said before the the
song starts. I know it's so easy to take that out, now,
(53:49):
do you know? It's so it's so easy. But back
then you couldn't. You just you didn't know how to
take stuff out, and just whatever you recorded was on there. Yeah, yeah,
it was. It was. It was nothing. But for some reason,
I remember we latched onto It's like, this is just
the funniest thing we've ever heard. We just latched onto it,
(54:10):
and I can't remember how it ended up getting into
the song. I'm sure you were like, wait, let you
should say let you should scream at really angrily. That's funny.
It's so dumb. But again, it's the beauty of It's
in such a different context too, though, on this on
(54:30):
our song as opposed to his demo tape. Yeah, well
that's the beauty of the montage of hip hop. That's
how like pre contextualizing things that you find in the world. Yeah,
any other memories of dance Materia. I feel like that
was sort of the place that I remember we went
to the most. So many I mean so much, so many. Um, alright,
(54:52):
where are we sorrying? I mean really that it was
the first place since we would talk to girls. I
thought you were you were just claiming junior high school status,
so you're doing all kinds of things. But all right,
dance there. I would say, like me, just like hearing
(55:13):
you didn't know. They were like the songs that you
would hear every every night, like uh uh app shoot
You Down, or or new or um Confusion you'd hear
like every single night or didn't didn't medium, medium, medium, medium.
My favorite top three favorite things of Danceingteria was being
(55:38):
on that dance floor room, second floor, just in the
corner by the stairs, would always be hanging out. The
music would be playing, people be dancing, and there was
some guy in the middle of the crowd would be like,
wren't that body. It wasn't just like once, It was
like every night. Memories of the Roxie. I remember the Rocks.
(55:59):
I remember two things. I remember African Bambada playing, Uh,
Tony Basil, You're oh, Mickey, You're so fine at the
Roxy so like you know, I'm there like a white
kid at the Rosy thing. It's like the most de
boy place ever. And here's African Bambada, one of the
most important hip hop DJs ever, and he's playing Tony
(56:22):
Basil like you know not, there's nothing that I thought
of rap like music like that. When I associated with
Tony Basil and I was just like, Wow, that's incredible
that he could make Tony Basil old, Nicky, you're so fine.
Work in the Roxy was incredible that and then I
just remember being scared to go to the bathroom at
(56:45):
the Roxy. Roxy. It was just it was just like
dudes like selling coke and getting high and like shi,
it was scary. I just felt like I was gonna
get robbed in the bathroom. Yeah, me too. Well. That
that I remember because I went of Roxy when I
was a kid because it was a roller skating place
and so I don't I don't know how to roller scape,
(57:06):
but like it's like a thing you go and hang
out at the roller skating place. And so then later
a few years later, Roxy was a thing where we
would go to, you know, the disco, and I remember
when we were there. I don't know it was the
first time we're there, but then like sucking shots rang
out and someone had a gun and was shooting and
people running. I was like, this is not the same
thing from when I was eleven, twelve, you know whatever,
(57:30):
it's it was a place you put a bunch of
teenage dudes in the same place. Some weird ship's going
to happen. Why is that it is the case? But
why teenage dudes is stupid? I don't know what to say.
I'm thinking about that the Hey Mickey reference that the
embody used and that probably lead that hearing that there
(57:52):
probably was a step in why the song It's Tricky
got made? Are there? You gonna say a world destruction
and for him it's like the same beat? Yeah, because
the world destruction is like the same beat. Yeah, yeah,
I just I just remember it's tricky being like feeling
(58:14):
there were certain vibes that you would feel at a
hip hop club that stood out that we're different than
the others. It's like, hmm, how do you incorporate that?
Because that definitely feels good, like we're in the club,
this feels great. That's now part of the language. Like
that felt like, okay, that's part of the language in
hip hop and be if you were in a band
and somebody in a band did a waltz beat instead
(58:38):
of a four four beat, and you'd say, oh, that's
a new part of the vocabulary. You can write a
song with a waltz beat, no matter to wald speat.
I got, you know, I got tons of songs of
Wald Speeds. Oh wait, one thing Wick I did want
to say is you were talking about how I don't
even know how to explain it to people, or maybe
it's not even worth trying to explain. But like we
were talking about opening from Madama, it that it's it's
(59:01):
also it's very interesting. Look obviously we've we've changed a
lot through the years, but it's it's it's interesting to
me because people know I feel like relate to us,
or a lot of people know us just from like
life and still little Beast Boys, and then there's a
lot of people that grew up with us for a
lot of stuff whatever, but a lot of people know
it's just like it's in that um incarnation license at
(59:24):
all time. And I think it's interesting with you. You
were like such a big part of like when we're
opening up from the data and this like this whole
idea like persona. But then people actually know you now,
like from your persona now, not from like like how
you would talk then, And I don't even know how
(59:44):
to explain when I try to explain to people how
you would talk in sort of like when you're excited about,
like for wrestling, and how you would do that I
don't even know how to capture it or explain it. Yeah,
it's definitely a ramped up character there, uh inspired by
like Roddy Piper would be one of the key get
Rick Flair. The the guys who would who you'd want
(01:00:08):
to see lose and who would often find a way
to win through cheating. Um. But they were the funniest.
They always like the bad guys in wrestling. The bad
guys have the best lines. So they were the most
charismatic and funniest characters. So put on that air has
to do with Youth, Michael, Youth, don't give a fuck.
(01:00:30):
Thank you for doing this. Great to see you, Adam,
I miss you, I love you, and I look forward
to continuing uh bridging bridging the years that that we've missed.
I love you too. Nice to talk to you. Thank you, Rigors.
Great to see you, Spike A pleasure. I miss you.
I mist see later you guys right. Thanks to Mike, Adam,
(01:00:55):
and Spike for taking the time to catch up with Rick.
You can hear all our favorite Beast Voice songs plus
the other songs mentioned in this episode by heading the
Broken Record podcast dot com and be sure to check
out our YouTube channel where you can find some great
bonus material for past episodes. You can subscribe at YouTube
dot com slash broken Record Pods. Broken Record is produced
(01:01:16):
with help from Jason Gambrel, Meal, La Belle, Leo Rose,
and Martin Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Theme musics by Kenny Beats.
I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.
Hosts And Creators
Laiya St. Clair
Questlove
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