Questlove Supreme: Jill Scott (Part 1)

One of Questlove and Team Supreme's most anticipated interviews, Jill Scott, is finally here! Her relationship with The Roots introduced her to the world through a Grammy award winning song called, “You Got Me”. Hear the story of how a talented girl from North Philly joined forces with some of Philly’s finest to stake her claim in this world of soul music and take it far beyond expectations into the lands of television and film.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Here on iHeart first of all our family. What's up
like you?

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hey? Yes?

Speaker 1 (00:18):
How are you doing?

Speaker 4 (00:19):
Why?

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Why he can be sideye already me?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm not giving you said, I'm excited?

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Are you?

Speaker 4 (00:25):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (00:26):
No? No, I know this this is yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Let me just bypass you guys some pay bill and
far Tickeola.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
I'll get into it.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
We've been waiting for.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
This episode, probably longer than we care to actually stay
on the records. I don't know why it's taken almost
three and a half years for us to finally bring
to fortune. Uh the Jill Scott episode. I can't say
enough about this woman. She helped me get my first Grammy,

(00:57):
and I appreciate that. Jill Scott, she saved my life.
She gave me my first and only hit, Wow, why
only hit? No, Ladies and gentlemen, Jill Scott is much

(01:19):
more than that to me.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
She's actually she's literally one of my.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Favorite artists ever, accomplished poet, singer, actress. Yes, extraordinaire, Please
welcome to Quest of Supreme.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Finally, one and only Jill.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Wait, Joe, what's your middle name? I'm gonna look this
up on the internet. Jill, Wait, why don't we know your.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Wait a minute, Jill, did you take your middle name
off of the Internet?

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Internet?

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yes, you did?

Speaker 1 (01:52):
W is it barbarabody?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Got a black ass middle name? Lady Scott, it's probably.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
I like lo Renal.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Wait, are you trying to tell me that your middle
name will never be known to the world?

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Ever?

Speaker 4 (02:23):
If you search hard enough, you'll find it.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Jill is really secret, Like she didn't even want to
tell me where she was at. She didn't want to
tell me where her house was.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Not even a state. Yeah, not even because you're a
Philly for life.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Yeah, no, Philly all day?

Speaker 1 (02:41):
And what.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
I just like balance, man. I try to find a
place where people don't know me at all for anything,
and I go there and it's great. We have conversations
about something and nothing. We get angry with each other
and you know, call h O A on each other.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's nice.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
You're trying to tell me that you you're in a
circle in which people may or may not know who
you are.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
That's right, No, not impossible. They are white.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
I believe that I can believe that Yes, there's white famous,
and then there's black famous.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
Yes, and white famous yes, and the white famous and
uh no incomes texts, no state income text All that
made sense to me an Acreage, I was like, yep,
I mean.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Wait, there's another place that's not Delaware that does this.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
Yeah, I mean I'm in Tennessee. Oh be good, she
said it. I was scared she was gonna get us
up if we said it. Oh yeah, I won't fight you, probably.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Nigga, I'm scared of you.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
You know that.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
The first song was getting it. Let me tell you
about basilinay.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
I never forget Jill, Jill am.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
I story time.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Story time?

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Can I sell you all the first seven words I
ever heard Jill Scott ever say? Okay, So, Jill Scott
is best friend with a mutual friend of ours, Leslie
Arnette Pina. Leslie is the voice of oh on Lazy Afternoon?

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Or do you want more? Right? So, I believe maybe
this is when Leslie's cutting it.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
I'm not certain, but what I do know is that
she brought her girlfriend down to the studio with her. Now,
what makes this even crazier I'm not knowing that the
guy that Jill was once dating is also currently messing
with a roommate of someone that I lived with in
the house that I was living in during the Do

(04:51):
You Want More?

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Period?

Speaker 2 (04:52):
This sounds like an episode of Insecure. So it's all
I know.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
It's terrible.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
This is all I know. It's terrible, not sight unseen.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
I sat down on the couch and she must have
gotten the news that that he did her wrong.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
And she said, and the most.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Think of the most Oprah Harpo voice you can muster up,
she said, She said, Jill.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Scott, lady gentlemen. Yes, yeah, yep, Heather. Oh god, I
don't know what I was doing. Internet just told me.
I don't know what I was doing.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
I was either midshew, I don't know if I was
at my lunch or reading something. But I was like, oh,
I'm scared of this woman forever.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
What happened to him, what happened to do was gonna
get cut off whatever. Let's see. What do I know?
I know that.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Story at the house.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
This I can't tell you the rest.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
It's so bad.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
I think the special limitations is that I think you
can go in Okay.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
So I went to the house. I went to the house,
and and she was there at.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
The house, right he right, sorry, right.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
Drinking my kool aid out of the glass I bought. YEP,
I happened to have a razor blade.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Oh boy, all right, this is question of supreme Thank you, gentlemen.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
Yeah, keep going. Everyone lived, Everyone lived, but his wardrobe
didn't live.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
His ward.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Kind of everything.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
And it was ever Erackey era everything and not on
the scene.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
Where you can.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Settle something for me, Jill, was he at all? Was
he at all involved in music? Because I have another
issue with him three weeks later. Now, mind you, this
guy is messing with a girl that lives in my house,
and he steals my drum machine.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Dog.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
I put two and two together way after the fact,
like you all just tarantinoed your way into my timeline,
and then I had to put the story together to
realize what was going on.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
But he also, I have reason to believe that he
stole one of my drum machines that house probably, and
so yeah, but that's how that's that's how I had
And then.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
The second Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
But the second time, Jill was made three grand.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Entrances in my life before I even started a real conversation.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
With her.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Now.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
The second one was a little blurry because at the
time I was at Richmond Dina's house. It was like
a barbecue whatever, and it was like a spades tournament.
And one of my greatest shames is also I learned late, right,
so that that part's a little blurry. But I remember
Jill there. But the third time with meeting Jill was

(08:38):
at a poetry slam in West Philadelphia around fifty fourth
and Baltimore Avenue.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
I don't remember this.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
You don't remember this, no, you all right?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
So I believe either to Peter Mason introduced you, somebody
a fellow poet introduced you, and you cut her off
before it was like ladies and gentlemen, we're going to
bring up someone to the stage, and and then all
of a sudden, from the back you went into Jo
Diesses freaking.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
You from the audience.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
So it was like ladies and gentlemen, Okay, that was
Ursula Rucker of Richmondina and you know coming up next
as a sister from North Philadelphia, right, But no, man,
it was like you know how like Felicia was shot

(09:37):
over Nazi eight where's like like her last name is Alan,
like Felicia Airs Allen or Debbie Allen from.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
The back of the room every time I closed, and.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
We lost our ghosts, like who the fuck is this?
And she's just like slowly walked to the stage. It
was like our were collectively wagging, like the fuck is that?

Speaker 3 (10:04):
And I don't remember that at all.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Did I miss out on Jill's sexy poet like whole
sexual poetry thing?

Speaker 1 (10:10):
That dog? You weren't there for that? No, I heard
nothing to be fucking yeah. In nineteen ninety nine, I
think you gotta be in.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Sixteen Oh pudding.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Pud' there's a wink in there.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
No, but I believe two three weeks later this is
when you got me sort of.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
You started coming around the Sigma with Scott.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
So Nope, no, Jill tell a story. No, No, I don't.
I don't remember Baltimaring. It was so much poetry at
the time. We were everywhere trying to earn fifteen dollars
anywhere by miss his birthday parties, theaters, libraries. I was everywhere,

(10:54):
just trying to earn a living as a poet. So
I really don't remember that. But I do remember the
night I met Yoe. Now we were on a I'm
trying to remember the brother's name. He had a small
record store, and he had closed the record store out
for the evening so people could read. I think Rich

(11:14):
might have been DJing.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
That was Rich's spot. Oh, Keith my current my current
product manager.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Years later, Yeah, it was Keith. Look at that.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Okay, Yes, in South Philly.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yes, so I think we were there, if I'm not mistaken.
And I read something and I came off and you
said you do you write songs? And I lied, I
said yes, which I did not do, and you were like, okay, Bet,
I'm going to hook you up.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
You should come to the studio.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Had I been to a studio yet? I don't even
think I had been to a studio anywhere except of
the night I met you at Aga Sigma Sigma Sound,
where I met you. That was the first time I
had ever been in the studio. This will be the second.
So you hooked me up with Scott Storch, who I
knew only because I had seen him play in the

(12:17):
keys at every jam session and every time that I
saw you guys perform. You know, Scott was there. You
You asked me if I could write a song. I said, okay,
didn't know how at all. And we sat there and
Scott and I got blazed for like, I don't know, like, so.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
You Got Me?

Speaker 4 (12:41):
Was that the first generation? Like you gave him your
first draft or you.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, wow, Yeah, there were seven songs, but you got Me.
I still that cassette You Got Me was number three.
You worked on seven sketches. You Got Me was number three,
And when I heard it, I said to myself, this
song's going to change my life.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
I knew ten seconds in when you sang it.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
I was like, this HiT's going to change my life,
and instantly ran downstairs to Dave Ivory's room and Scott
happened to be there, and we just cut it right
on the spot because I knew. I wanted to get
it out the way before like Rich and Tariq caught
demo itis.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
I was like, this song's going to change my life.
So before Rich.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
And Tarik hear it in its current state and get
demo itis and be like, Nope, this is the version
of that we're going to, I was like, let me
do the drums right now. And then there's there's a
whole nother like eight hour story of even the Battle
of drum and bass music at the end of it.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
That was a.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Dog because then it was like, dude, why are you
why are you going to ruin the song? Like just
be like was Rich's whole JOm was like, look, stay
straight ahead whatever, and I was like, no, this is
a drumming bass song because initially I wanted to whole
song to be that, and Rich was like, oh yeah
that one, keep it straight ahead, and so you know,
and the compromise of it all was like, Okay, at

(14:08):
the end, you get your little prize at the in
the Cereal Box.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Okay, here, we're still waiting for that part too. Like
I just knew.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
It was just every time you talk about that story,
I'm gonna just say it should have been part two
to that song. We had part two, part three. We
ended up having so many versions of the.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Songs live yeah on the Roots, on the Things Fall
Apart Box at.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Two dollars Bill performance. That's probably still one of my
favorites ever in DC.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Right, yeah, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
I was there.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
We are, we are, We're jumping the gun. We're in
nineteen ninety nine. Jill Scotty, Where were you born?

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Where are you born.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
At Albert Einstein Hospital in Philadelphia?

Speaker 3 (15:01):
You want to be blue?

Speaker 1 (15:02):
N O r F North Philly.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Oh N O r F yep, North Philly?

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Where? Okay? Where in? Because North Phillies is anything above.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Broad Street to me, like Gotts Avenue or like, what
what's like here in North Philly?

Speaker 3 (15:19):
I'm Lee High? Oh yeah, Lee High, Broad Lee High Avenue.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay, that's banging. Now what was it? Then?

Speaker 3 (15:27):
It was? It was the bottom. Yikes, it was the bottom.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Then that's near j Street.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
I don't know Jade Street, all right.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
It's.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
In the big shooting Like really, that's many, many, many shootings.
You know where Dobbins is Dobbins Vocational High School. I
taught there for a couple of months, but I lived
around the corner from Dobbins.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
You're a school teacher too.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
I'm an English teacher.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Wow here Harley new Yee. Okay, so in growing up
in Philadelphia? Like all right, first of all, how did
you cause? The thing is that, if you're saying you're
in North Philly, especially growing up in the eighties, getting
out of North Philly is an achievement on its own. Yes, indeed, sir,

(16:20):
So what was life like navigating through North Philadelphia.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
You know what I really you know, I know that
it was tough. I know that there was there was
a lot of murders. There were a lot I lost
a lot of like, well, we all lost a lot
of young men. Early one summer, we lost like seven
young guys. You know, I knew them all. They were
drug dealers, but I you know the drug dealers that

(16:48):
I knew. They carried my mom's groceries home. You know,
they wrote me poetry, they said on they said on
my steps and let me read the Megarall and Poe.
You know, they were they were sweet to me. And
I know it seems absurd to some people, but I
had a very very idyllic uh concept of the hood.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
It was.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
It was beautiful. You know. There was neighbors who played
the guitar and kept their screens open and so you
could hear it. There were neighbors that everybody swept, you know.
And then then crack came. Crack came like a thief
in the night and just destroyed everything good not everything.

(17:30):
There were still good people around, but it made it
really hard.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
You know.

Speaker 4 (17:35):
I definitely got shot at. I definitely had to fight
a lot, and then I thought of ways of trying
to not hurt anybody because I thought I was going
to end up in jail if I didn't figure it out. So,
you know, my mom took me to Juvie. I saw
some stuff in there and I was like, Okay, I
don't have to worry about me. No, she took me

(18:00):
to juvi Want some scared straight John, Yeah, before there
was a scared straight. She was like, you should you know,
I get. She didn't tell me where we were going.
We just got on the thirty three and we got
off and ended up in Juvie. It was a whole
bunch of girls that looked a lot like me, that
looked like they had been through hell in a basket.
You know. I heard a couple of horrible stories about

(18:22):
being in Juvie, and I was like, I'm good. Like
I had to find a way to survive without fighting,
without having to defend myself because I don't you know,
I'm not the kind of person that just puts my
hands up and we're going to fight and it's over.
You know, I don't know how to stop because I'm kind.

(18:43):
You know, it might so terrible, but I am I
don't want to hurt anybody. So I'm in a position
where in order to survive, I'm going to have to
hurt somebody pretty badly and they may not make it.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
So I figured out other ways.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Step to everybody, I don't well, I do, I do.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
I have a sister from my father.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
But you grew up the loon child. Yeah, household.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, so you didn't have the story of I'm gonna
get my cousin to fuck you up, like there's none
of that.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
My cousins hated. My cousins hated. I could read through
her words that Jill didn't have a problem being able
to fight, because that was the problem that you were
started being good at it.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
It sounded like like you It wasn't.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
I don't. I would never call it. I think.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
It was. It was you didn't lose that too often.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
It wasn't. It just wasn't fair. You know, I didn't
know how to stop. I didn't know how to win
a fight and stop, So I don't really. I try
my best not to be in that position, to the
to the very end, to the bitter end, to the
you're going to jail in And I didn't want that
for myself. I was scared of it. So I embraced

(20:00):
every possible way to be kind and loving and open
in my hood. So and try at the same time
not to be a sucker, you know, to get played
by the crackheads or by the drug dealers. But you know,
be friendly and be nice and be helpful where you can,
but not give anybody money because if you give crackheads

(20:23):
money to come back the next day like a squirrel,
you know. So you know, trying to find that balance
to navigate living or dying. And yes, it was very
hard to get out of North Philly. So I worked
three jobs and did poetry and hoped that I could
make some kind of a living. God in Dobbin's High

(20:45):
School was teaching English. It was dope. I loved it,
but they weren't very helpful.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Good got in and subsequently went back there to teach.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
No. I went to girls High okay, but I taught
at doc events and I realized I wasn't going to
make any money, which is so foul to this day.
That I wasn't going to make any money, and I
wasn't going to have any kind of support. There's no
support for teachers. My principal told me I was young
and idealistic and I would get over it and I quit.

(21:18):
I quit everything that day, like this sucks. There's gotta
be something else. And then Ozzi Jones, I don't know
if you got y'all know.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Izzy, Yes, yes Jones.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Izzy Jones called me the day I quit everything and said, Yo,
there's an apprenticeship at the Ardent Theater Company. Do you
want to try out for it? It's one hundred and
fifty dollars a week. You're gonna end up working somewhere
between fourteen and sixteen hours a week, but you'll get

(21:49):
free acting classes and you'll learn everything about theater.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
What do you say?

Speaker 4 (21:54):
And I auditioned and I had several meetings and I
was the oldest and the only black person in the building.
One thing begat another Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
So wait, so no freedom theater, none of this stuff
ever comes into.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
Your No, I wish I couldn't afford.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Were singing in church as as a young like none of.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
That didn't grow up in church.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
Wait, so that meant that story about you, It was
a story about you.

Speaker 4 (22:24):
Not being a part of freedom, but that like you
actually used to help clean up and do stuff around
the building.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
That's not true.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
The cleaning up part came later when I was in college.
But uh, that was that was just because I thought
it was dope. But I couldn't afford classes. Where you
go to school Temple, which one I went for two

(22:51):
years and I took off a year, went for three years,
took off two years.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Came back were major.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
No. No, I don't even know how many times I
went to Temple. I don't.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
It was just a blur, I swear to you.

Speaker 4 (23:07):
I just was trying to finish, to be the one
in my family who finished school. And you know, they
ended up giving me a honorary PhD, which I took.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
And I took that, Scott, I went that.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
On my passports so bad, like I don't know how
to get that done. I'm trying to tell you the first,
the first degree I earned. After that, they gave me
the next and the next. Food. I'm cool with it.
I'm good with it.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Damn, Jill. I would have I would have known you, yo.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
I got in the creative and performing arts. I really
would have known you.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
I would have went to Kapa.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
Why got into both schools to girls Hiding and Kappa,
and I was terrified I was terrified of that neighborhood.
I was like, I already got enough ship. Now I'm
going to south neighborhood. I'm scared, like they're gonna kill me.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
They're gonna try to.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
You said that like all day. Julie pronounced A scared
s K A E R D T scared.

Speaker 4 (24:15):
I was scared. I was like, they're going to kill me.
I can't go here. That was at the audition, and
I changed my mind and I got in as a writer.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
You're creative writing major.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
I was a creative I would have.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
The English teacher.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah, I would have been, but I changed my mind
and went to girls high instead.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
That is crazy. Okay, okay, so wait, did you know
Sean in high school?

Speaker 3 (24:41):
I did?

Speaker 4 (24:42):
We went on together?

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Manager?

Speaker 3 (24:45):
You know Sean in high school?

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Wow? Said she just said that.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
Yeah, but we weren't sure.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
You were surely prom day?

Speaker 4 (25:01):
No, we went on a prom together. We all went
and sat together.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
We were same thing.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Yeah, how many Sean?

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (25:10):
It was me and my date, him and his date
Court and in his date, so it was six of us.
That's right. Wow, that's dope. That a story of you
and Sean, Like what an evolution Oh yeah, I think
I met him when I was I was fourteen. I

(25:31):
had to be fourteen or fifteen. I think I might
have been fifteen. But I got pictures of a young
showing in my office somewhere.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
We need this black mail material.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Oh come on, y'all, wait damn I know, wait a
damn ship because I know Sean's gonna listen to this episode.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
I got some really good on showing.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
You got, you got some tapes, you got some rap tapes?

Speaker 1 (25:59):
What you got?

Speaker 3 (25:59):
What you got?

Speaker 4 (26:00):
Man?

Speaker 1 (26:01):
I scoured the earth for Showan's record. O, my god,
are you gonna pull up? All right? Wait, here's the
here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Now, I got it. And he, you know, like he
sounds like it's straight. He's straight ll eighty five like.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
Right now, fante, he said he talked to his whole style.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
That's what he says sounds.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
But the thing is that Sean was like the family
star Tarika Fomo because, like, you know, Thanksgiving, Sean asked
twelve and single out.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
And was getting played on local radio.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Blowie B was like, you know, and Tarik was like,
way they get a load of me.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
And then that's what inspired to ree to like step up.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
That Sean and Tica are cousins because most people up.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, but this is where it even goes deeper. Angela
Nissel my Angie, former Okay player, partner in current writer
at Mixed Dish. One day she asked me for like
some interstitial rap music, Like do I know, like a
real cheap, random rap song that's like kind of bad

(27:22):
from like nineteen eighty five eighty six, like when they
do a flashback thing like that time back in nineteen
eighty five.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, then right, And so.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
I was this close to getting that song clear on
Mixed Dish, but I would have had to I would
have to been the owner of the publishing to make
it happen.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Damn.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Oh god, yeah, because I wanted to be something where
like se is just watching TV and it just hurt fem.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
How do I get this?

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Oh, since I get off this phone, I will send
it to you.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, I've been saving I've been saving this record for
like the right woman to drop it.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
I save this.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
You know what I want?

Speaker 4 (28:08):
I mean, I want to hear the other six songs
that Scott and I did. What happened to them? I
don't know if you have them, but I'm curious because.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
Yeah, my first time with Scott not having Babbage, not
having baggage, right Babbage, Babbage, Oh Babbage right Babbage?

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Oh real weird?

Speaker 3 (28:33):
Yeah yeah, Scott. Scott was on the whole other level.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
I was like, wait, wait, wow, this is this is wonderful,
this is a beautiful sensation. Yeah. Yeah, that was Scott's
at work.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
At what point, even though you didn't have a traditional
uh experience or community theater experience as most of our
guests do. Oh, like, where does music play in your
life for at least the first four miative years? Like
your first eight years? Like, what was the first record
you ever brought of? The first concert you went to
and allowed?

Speaker 3 (29:19):
I said, well, she allowed to have it?

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah yeah, wait.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
Yeah right, blowing a dark record player. I was allowed.
Let's see, I my first record. I don't know the
first record, but I took the Whiz to my third
grade show and tell.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
And everybody hated it. I was devastated. I me, something
was wrong with those people.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
You played the wi.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
And they hated it.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
So you brought the records to school? Yes, and they
didn't appreciate it as.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
Much at all.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
They thought it was awful.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
They booed I was like, you're all insane. I'm out
of here.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
I'm not what was your jam on the record?

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Jail?

Speaker 4 (30:02):
Oh Brandon Day. You know how I know how you
are about the Wiz, Like, yes, the Wiz poster is
in a frame above my son's toilet.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
I think the Wiz is a great horror movie. Dude.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
You know what.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
The Wiz is a hard cell.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
It is.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
One night, one night, I just I conducted experiment. It
was one of these nights where where we had like
Thanksgiving run uh, like a tour. I had Thanksgiving off,
but not enough to really like plan anything with family.
So this time I was stuck with a bunch of
people that I work with. We call them white people,

(30:53):
and I was wondering when you were to me and
I was like, I want to see how white people react.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
To the Wiz.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Oh this is good.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yo. It freaked them out.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
It was to them it was like an acid trip,
like and watching the Wiz through their eyes.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Then they were like, yo, this is the scariest ship
we have ever seen.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Like now as a kid, like watching the Wiz and
when Eveline's when her nails nails go backwards and get
the fuck out of here man. That was I think
we were just happening to see black people. I think
that's what it was. We was like, we got Michael Jackson,
we got Dan A. Ross, Like we're just happened to

(31:39):
see black people acting.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
But but the force were so perfect. Black man can't
catch cab in New York City, Yeah, the young woman
who can't get out of the house, you know, still
living at home with her mama. You know, all of
those things that were actually occurring, to poppy fields or
the hookers on the street, you know all of that.

(32:03):
It was the metaphors were perfect for the hood. It was.
It was wonderful. As a writer, I just fell in love.
And then I met Quincy Jones and was like, I
just looked on you with the third grade. He was like,
I hated that. I hated that whole. Charlie, Yeah, Charlie.
They hated each other. Well, he hated Charlie because.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
It's you know what it was, Okay, as the elder
statesman of this crew, because you all were three at
the time when it came out, I'm saying that to
watch like the morning that it came out, and to
watch it in its first run, I had to stand.

(32:46):
I had to stand in line for three and a
half hours. You remember the Sam Eric say that the
movies like you saw it. You know, I'm just saying, yeah,
I was like, oh shit, no, no, no, no, the Wiz.
You know, I think I think now that I'm looking

(33:07):
in hindsight, the excitement and the build up to what
The Whiz was was probably better than the movie itself. No, no,
I'm not saying that it was a bad film, because
this is the thing we have to know, Like Sidney
Lament technically lost his career after The Whiz, like after

(33:29):
batting out the Park with like Dark Day Afternoon was
the one. Yeah, all these other films that he did,
I think he did Cerproco and The Wiz was seen
as a failure now, you know. And I also have
issues with how black films are judged by non black critics.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, by higher level.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
So I know that there is also points off of
that of just craulually not understanding got Tony.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
I mean, what are we talking about it?

Speaker 2 (33:59):
I know, but The Wiz is a hard cell now
recently watching it.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
It's a hard cell.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Recently watching it, I realized what Jill was saying, like, oh, man,
there's a lot of the Whiz could also be like
a self esteem motivational package, because I saw it in
a whole different light now post therapy, life coach and
that stuff.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
And then I was like, oh, okay.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
I see the lessons alive. You're standing straw.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Steve. Have you ever seen I saw The Wiz and
I saw the sequel Whiz Wit. Wait what I thought
that joke would do better? I don't say there's a
try to keep up reloaded.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
I wanted another one. I really I still want another one,
but it couldn't.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Okay, So what's the second what's this plot line of
the Wiz?

Speaker 1 (35:09):
What's the second? What would be the next the sequel
in the Wiz? Like, what's the storyline?

Speaker 4 (35:13):
It would have to be a lost Dorothy. A lost
Dorothy meaning she doesn't know who she is or how
to be. She's trapped in a world where she's uh,
I don't know, weaved out and uh contacted and what

(35:36):
it may be. But I think I think there's a
lot of like that going on.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Version of Wicked, just like they have it now.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
You know, I love Wicked. That was because it was
so good. The sequel to the Wizard of Oz.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Was like, Yeah, what's better the movie or the soundtrack.

Speaker 4 (35:57):
For the Wiz. Yeah, I'm gonna go with.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
The movie because there's dancing allans. Soundtrack doesn't make sense
unless you've seen the movie.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
And it's weird because the soundtrack is technically a story.
It's a movie without visuals, which is why I think
it was a hard sell for Jill to get a bunch.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
Of third kids, third and fourth grade class.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Home teachers playing for them.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
No I was a student.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Oh okay, Yeah, they booed live anywhere. Y'all think home
can live anywhere?

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Yeah, but what does that mean?

Speaker 3 (36:34):
What does home mean of the song? I'm just saying
the song, Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Anywhere, anytime, anybody. But I wouldn't want to see. I
wouldn't want to see like pop stars sing it. I
wouldn't want to see I would like to see, like,
grab some folks out of Juilliard, you know, and have
them portray these incredible people to make it stick to
it has ribs, you know, not just you know, fancy characters.

(37:00):
I don't want to see that. I would like to
I would like Dorothy to have guts. I would like
her to be afraid.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
What was it like for you to perform in front
of Michael Jackson at the thirtieth anniversary performance or was
that just a weird experience altogether?

Speaker 4 (37:14):
It was a very strange experience. I got there and honestly,
it felt like nobody was there about before Michael Jackson,
no one, And that bothered me a lot because I
had turned down a role with Denzel Washington to be
there because I really really wanted to honor Michael Jackson

(37:36):
and I was doing the Whiz, so it meant a
lot to me. And I got there and it just
felt like nobody was about it, like nobody was really
there to honor him. And I remember getting on stage
and now they've added other people to this performance, which
really frustrated me too, great artists, but I just that's

(37:57):
not what I had in mind. And anyway, long.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Story short, was your idea was to do? What to do?

Speaker 4 (38:03):
You can't win? To have the scarecrows, the whole thing,
the dancing. I think they had Fatima on board at
the time to choreograph the thing. I wanted to present
him the Whiz, you know, the way that he did
it as best as I could with all of my heart.
And uh, that didn't work out. They kept adding other

(38:25):
people and then added something from the Wizard of Oz
to honor e Liza Minelli, who was his homegirl. And
I was like, what the fuck? And I got on
stage and I looked to the left and there was
Michael Jackson. He he was paper white. It wasn't like

(38:46):
it wasn't any kind of human white he was. He
was paper white. And I didn't want to look anymore.
I was like trying to hold back tears during the
performance because he was sitting Liza uh not e Liza
Manlly Taylor was sitting on one side of him, and
Macaulay Coffin was sitting on the other. He he just
didn't even look like a person. He was there. But

(39:09):
when I tell you that color was not a people color,
it just it was. It hurt me. It hurt me.
And I get off stage and I'm all upset. I'm
so upset, and everybody's so happy. I feels crazy. When
you're in the midst of this business and something impacts
you in a way, you know, you're, yeah, in the

(39:31):
midst of it. Like so I get off stage and
everybody's celebrating and how great that was, And I can't
even hear them. And then I turn my head and
there's Bobby Brown and Whitney Houston, and why Bobby, I
mean Whitney Houston, God rest her soul walks over and
I'm trying to get myself together, and I look down

(39:55):
and all I could think was that her her knees
were bigger than and her thighs. My heart is racing,
and I just I cried the rest of the night.
I just I just could not stop crying. I could
not get myself together because these are people that I
admired and respected and wanted them to be okay, you know,

(40:17):
I wanted them to be healthy and and thrive, and
they just weren't. They just they just weren't.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
What year was this.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
Two thousand and one and the next day eleven, The
next day was nine to eleven one.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Because I know that there were I.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
Don't know, I only had I did one and then
I saw it. It was on TV one night years later,
and I wasn't even in it, and I was like,
did you ever get to circle back? And like did
you ever speak with him? Did you ever get to
have contact with Michael? I just talked to him on
the phone he called me one time to say that
he liked me, and you know, that was it. I

(40:58):
was on tour and and he just called to say
that he liked me, and he was gonna send me
a hat that I never got. Yeah, I didn't. I
didn't like that Michael Jackson thing. I know, you don't know.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
I'm you've had.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
You must have had quite a few moments of like
those industry clarity moments. I know Fonte has them all
the time too, when you just like.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
This is where I wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Man, you mean as far as diminished returns are concerned.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah, I mean the reality of this reality.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
So how long is it before it kicks into you? Now,
I got into an unfortunate place where the only way
that I could navigate my way through those disappointments was
to then lower myself and lower my spirit to a
place where I constantly just came in enough to be

(41:47):
disappointed exactly, which is really putting a band aid over
a bullet wound because it might help cope with that moment,
But in the long run, that didn't service like my
soul or my being and enjoying life and that sort
of thing, because then, I mean, you do that for

(42:09):
ten years, and then you become cynical, and then you
become evil, and then you become I mean, it's just
levels of low self esteem and all that stuff. So
I mean, how long was it until, like, for you,
was there ever a point where you're just like, oh,
all my idols might disappoint me, or let me not

(42:29):
meet them and let me not take this phone call
or have this lunch with this person. You know, I
didn't even know you could have access to Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
I'm like, wait a minute, you had Prince.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yeah, yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Meeting him was a very big be careful for what
you ask for it because I meant, I'm not saying
it wasn't idea. I mean we had great moments where
it was fun and it was like everything I dreamed
about playing with my idol.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
But there were a lot of I mean you've seen
that stuff.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
There are a lot of moments that were like, ah, man,
it was better off in my head, the idea of
my head of Prince than what I got dealt with.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
There are a couple of things. One is I'm really
grateful that I grew up as a Jehovah's witness. I
had posters of new addition on my wall.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
I loved them.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
I talked to them my grandmother. I came home one
day and my grandmother took all my posters down and
she said, you're idolizing these boys. And I was like, no,
I'm not, No, I'm not. And she's like, you're in
there talking to them and telling them how you feel.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
They're they're painful.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
No man is above you and no man is beneath you.
I was devastating. I didn't like my grandmother for a
long time.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
That's real shit. Shit, Yeah, they cost you twenty bucks.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
This is the shits of it all. You have these
dreams and you have these ideas of what the world
is supposed to be like, and it is what it is.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
So what do I do.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
I take the good wherever I can find it, and
I hold on to that as hard as I can.
That's all I can do.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
The rest.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
I see it for what it is, and you know,
I'll forgive it for because it's whack. You know, I'll
just forgive it because just cousin keep pushing. There's no
need to hold on to that shit. It's disturbing and disappointing.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
But you know has there been times in your career
where it may have been someone that you met, like
a younger artist or just anyone where you think you
may have came across the wrong way to them and
kind of in the disappointment of them, and you had
to kind of go back and clear up and be like, yo,
I didn't really mean it that way, or whatever, like
have you ever found yourself on that side of the transaction.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
I'm certain. I'm certain because I'm not, you know, perfect,
I'm certain that they caught me in the middle of
something and I'm trying to deal, just to deal. I
remember this is a you know, an advanced artist.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
But I saw sha Ka Khan. I was so excited.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
I was like, oh my god, you're so beautiful.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
You please love me so much.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
And we're at the Grammys. I think I won that time.
So I'm walking around like, oh ship, you know, I
want to write shoes. I wore flip flops. You know,
my feet don't hurts, so my personality is good, you know.
I'm so excited. And one of her folks comes over
to me and they're like, miss miss Khan is upset
with you. I said, Miss Khan, who is a Shakaka

(45:23):
is upset with me, so I don't know, but I'm
going over there to find out because it's Shaka Khana
and I love her. So I go over there and
she was like, you called me a beast and.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
I was like, Wow, I'm glad you clear up.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
I'm so glad that I had the good sense to
go over there. We laughed hysterically. I was like, you
know what I end, but.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Whatever, Like who got the goal to say that? Ship
to you? Ms conn for real? And me me?

Speaker 4 (46:08):
You know, how could I call? I was like, oh
my god, this is this is crazy but very funny.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
These things happen. These things happen.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
What are the what are the beginning steps that starts
with you getting your record deal?

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Wait a minute, First of all, can you clear up something?

Speaker 2 (46:33):
I'll try What was is Hidden Beach Michael Jordan's label?
And I'm only asking this because I'm so obsessed with
the ESPN thirty for thirty Michael Jordan's last dance documentary thing?

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah I was.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
I think I was told that Hidden Beach was his
label or something like like what is what was Hidden Beach?

Speaker 4 (46:53):
Well?

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Hidden Beach?

Speaker 4 (46:56):
Steve Keith and Michael Jordan invested. It was I think,
like the major investor in the face of.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
At the time.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
I didn't know if if Steve or Michael, if Michael
like started the label and then had him running or whatever.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
No, but it was it was incredible to be around him.
And uh, he certainly put me in really nice rooms. Sure, yeah, yeah,
he kind of liked me a little bit. And I
was glad I got a chance to see some things
and taste some things I didn't know existed. I was like,

(47:33):
what is this you say, don't.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah. One of my buddies, a buddy mine from down here,
Charles Whitfield, he was around that time. And yeah, I've
heard a lot of those stories, the m J stories a.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
While, parties, he was parties, all that.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
It was.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
It was great.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Bulet.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
You're gonna tell me.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Later what the Bulet? Oh, the Bulet is the black
scaling bones.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
And bones and you know, the like Illuminati.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, the Black they called the Bulet. Didn't want me, Okay,
they didn't want me. They recruiting one of my DC friends.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Bill.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
That's not for you to know, my friend.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Clearly, thank you.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
You don't know, Bill, I don't want to join society.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
It's the black the black skull.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
And black skull boats.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
They never wanted me ever, No, I didn't get the form.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
I didn't get my bulet.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
I mean, it's real quiet because it's in it.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Listen, be in it. Tell us jif so, you've known
Amir for a long time, longer than you know of us.
Have God, you see him evolve? Who is the who
is the person?

Speaker 3 (48:59):
You met?

Speaker 1 (48:59):
You this question? She's next? How have you seen?

Speaker 4 (49:09):
Wow? Okay, in the in the beginning, he was so quiet.
He hardly ever said anything to me. He barely ever
looked me in the face. And you in my line,
you hardly ever looked me in the face. And I
was coming in and give me a hug, give me

(49:31):
a hug. And I had to, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Actually.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
Five years ago we were more lovely than you were.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Rich was a lovey.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
I didn't want to, you know.

Speaker 4 (49:47):
Do you remember you had played? I was on the
road with you guys. You had played or something, and
you were really tired, and I was like, well, let
me massage your ankles. Do you remember this? And I
came to your room and massaged your ankles, and you
fell asleep.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
That's my jail.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
By the way, were like, I don't even let my
fucker see my ankles.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
He's very sexy.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
He allowed me that time and he rested, and which
is what I hope for. He seems so stressed and tired,
and I was like, ankles.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
It is rare. Amir did not rest So that was
a big right, Okay, I have massaged.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
A lot of people in this lifetime.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Just I wish I remembered this.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
It's just like you forgot.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
I think I can help.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
It's not there.

Speaker 4 (50:42):
I just think I can help.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Wait wait, side note, side note because wait, wait, side note,
because the first time that Erica tells the story of
didn't you know, she said the same thing about Dylan
and I hit him. I'm like, wait a minute, you
had a massage by eric a bad when you was
making like she was massaging him as he was cutting up,

(51:05):
chopping up the sample, the blue sample.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
He's like, I don't remember it happening like that, though
it was.

Speaker 4 (51:13):
It was anything but sweetness. It was good, and which good.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
I'm probably the happiest place in my life right now. Uh, Jill,
So that look you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
I appreciate it. Take that on paid Bill sho a
sweat your ward motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (51:36):
Though, So now that we did all the soft and
can I just ask because the story, because I know
that Jill ended up on tour singer you got Me?

Speaker 3 (51:47):
But how did we get.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
To the point of the different vocalist? And then I
want to know?

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Okay, so on the verses, here's the deal.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
Oh yeah, I want to hear yours.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Here's so.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
What I remember was Joe and I had a lunch date.
And do you remember us going to Copas two on
South Street.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, Jill.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Jill is one of six people whose demo I actually
listened to and actually liked, like envy that it wasn't mine.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
The other and I've said the story before.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
The other acts were blow Slim Village, little Brother, Jill Scott,
Georgia m Maldreu. She's been around along that Jay Davy.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
No I heard it.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
I never let you forget. He told me I would
never sell a record. No no no no.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
No no no no no no no no no no
no no no.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
I forgot. I forgot. I forgot. I forgot.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Now, first of all, this is me, that is met.
Does that sound like me or that's sound like Rich Nichols.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
That was you.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
It sounds like you shut up, Steve Wowe.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Wait, Jill, you brought this up. Before you brought this up.
You brought this up, and I and I have issue
with this. I don't think I ever said that.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Alternate fact.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
No, listen, I remember sitting at the table you handed
me your your your discmand Yes it was.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
It was nineteen ninety eight.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
I still have that, by the way, And.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
I remember first I was like, wait a minute, there's
someone else in Philadelphia making music.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
First of all, I was m vias of the tracks
because I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
You are skating around this one song. I'm just trying
to get that.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Not no no, no, no no no, I'm gonna get to that.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
But this starts at Copas. It starts at Copas. And
she said that. I said never. I don't think that ever.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Like Joe Biden.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Right now, I'm the king, Jill, I'm the king of
my thoughts and my words being on the opposite sides
of the town. But I don't think there's ever a
time in life in which I was not your biggest fan.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
So why is it not her a eve?

Speaker 5 (54:22):
I'm just just.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
I'm gonna get to that. I'm gonna get to that.
I'm gonna get to that.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Okay, but Jill, No, no, no, But Jill has always
said that in the beginning, I wasn't fully supportive and
I said that she would never sell anything, only because
I don't think that I thought that, or maybe I
just thought like, oh, this is so good that maybe mainstream.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Yeah, I could see that.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
That mainstream audience won't get this, but I was instantly
in love with it.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
I've heard this story about baduism. I haven't heard it
about Jill.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
Damn. You told her she wouldn't make it without you.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
No, no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
What I heard what you saying? I've read in the magazine.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
It was I think it was Vibe or something you
heard about the wism and you were like, yo, I
like it, but will you know the hood get it?

Speaker 1 (55:14):
We'll just right.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
I think the things that I love isn't necessarily palatable
to mainstream America, and that I was wrong. So maybe
that's what I was trying to say, but I in
no way was I not. I want to I want
to repaint this history between you and I, Jill Scott
and saving the record that I was your I mean,

(55:36):
if I took a lunch date with you about your music.
I've never invited no one to the studio but you,
and that includes D'Angelo and Erica and anyone else I've
worked with.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
You're literally the lone human being. Angelo. He just didn't
show up left.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
So all right, now you know I heard that quote.
I was listening to the episode that quote. It's an
inside joke, all right. So now for Liea's story. All right,
So the story you got me is I hear it

(56:22):
and instantly know that this is going to change my life.
I run downstairs from Joe Tarcia's room where Scott's playing
it for me.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Me, Scott and.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Rich are listened to the results of him and Jill,
and we're like, that's the one. And instantly I told
Scott stop playing it because I don't want Rich getting demo.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
As we ran downstairs, I did it.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
So the German bassed argument was probably like a three
day thing, and I was like, okay, great, I'll just
do it the regular way. I won't put any fancy,
spancy things on it, and I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
We do the song. It's fucking awesome. So we go
to New York and this is what Reek's vocals on
and everything is done and done? Or is it just
the best? You know what I think?

Speaker 2 (57:11):
I think he struggled with the last verse, so I know,
all right, So we have other issues going on.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Oh okay, all right, So here's the deal.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Communication in the roots band in the nineteen ninety nine
wasn't too.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Much all motherfuckers? Why but we know.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
There's something that you guys don't know. Communication and the
roots band here isn't two ideas. So here's the all right,
so snack number one and you got me? Okay number one.
I mean, we've we've made it very public. Malik's codependency
problems now becoming a major problem for the band. There

(57:57):
have been situations of fights and money.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
And all this stuff, and it's sort of like, well
is he or is he? What's he doing? Is he
drinking too much? Da da da da?

Speaker 2 (58:08):
And then you see vals of white powder and shit
and so we're dealing with that type of drama. So
something happens that gets us kicked out of Sigma because
of Malik.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
So now Vocal Vocal.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Headquarters are now at Larry Golds at the studio. So
problem number one is we're not all in the same
place at the same time, working and interacting. So now
it's like a factory. Joe Tarcia still likes me because
of his history with my father, so sort of like
a mirror. You can stay, but you know, Malick and

(58:46):
all his running buddies and all that stuff. They gotta
do right. So all music's being tracked at Sigma and
then we send them to Seventh and Cala Hill to
the studio to be recorded. So while that's happening, there's
also a third factor is mixing. So between mixing with
the Axual NEOs and Bob Power. So in the morning

(59:08):
I'm tracking, and then the evening I'm mixing in New York.
Suddenly I'm getting these tapes and I'm hearing this girl
like wait, and I'm calling Rich like wait, who's this
female voice on track fourteen doing ad libs? And he
was like, you know that girl, Eve, that's her, and
so I'm like, oh, man, come on.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Oh I even have a part in the ear.

Speaker 4 (59:35):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
She was Wow, that's no, that.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Was Rique em Mail and come on.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
And I mean, look, by this point and we're we're
totally skipping over, like the jam sessions that are happening
at the house and everyone being at the house. So
Jill's a presence, Jaguars a presence, the jazzy fan Nazis
are a presence, News a presence. Uh occasionally, you know,
ten year old Jasmine Sullivan's the presence and at some

(01:00:04):
point then suddenly it's like okay, Eve. And at the time,
you know, it was like her and her girlfriends that
she was stripping with or whatever, like they come to
the crib Malex bringing over these dudes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I don't know. They putting a ship out of my carpet.
I mean Beanie and and and yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Chris and Nathan those guys, but I don't know them
from a cannapign and they're putting it out of my carpet.
So I started hating the jam sessions. So once it
hit me, wait, wait, this is this is the stripper joint,
like the joint with the short hair that's on this record.
And Rich was like yeah, and now I'm like a man,
we're about to do that, like come to the studio

(01:00:46):
and I'm like this is this is Like I don't
know how I feel about Like no, one had a
meeting with me about people on the record, So that's
where communications started getting bad. So that was ain't saying
nothing new. So it's like, okay, I'll put her ad
libs down because I'm just like, no one had a

(01:01:07):
conversation with me about it, so you got me time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Now I'm like, wait a minute, who's this rhyming on
the thing?

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
And it was the same situation, and I was just
like yo, like y'all just putting people on this record
and not saying shit like this is our hit, Like
now we got we already have a voice on here,
and now what now another person is doing around like
this is our one chance to hit this ball out

(01:01:36):
the park.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
There can only be one unknown and now there's like
four entities and like what do we do?

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
So that shit caused like a three week debate argument whatever.
So we get the song done, we're playing we're playing
it for MCA, and now they're like, okay, we believe
in the song, but you know, the girl sings good,
but we've like you should have a name to really

(01:02:04):
do that, and we're like no, like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
This, she's killing the ship. She's killing the ship.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
So then it became a group meeting of like you
got me just started to be a nightmare to deal with.
Tarik didn't have a third verse. Now it's like, wait,
so now we gotta or who's going to tell Jill?

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Who told you Jill?

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
No one, No, nobody told me?

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Wow, nobody told me?

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Guys mump at new Flash.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Communication it wasn't the best Wait.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Wait, I want to I want to make an announcement.
I want to make an announcement.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Communication was never the strong points.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
And it wasn't even like a mean spirited thing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
It was more just like, oh, he'll do it, or
he'll do it, or I got other ship to worry about.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
That's Jill when she heard it, I.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Remember, all right, I'm just saying that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Really, their logic was like yo, you know I've heard
stories of like well she wasn't marketable d D. This
to them was like this is, yeah, she sings great,
but she's unknown. And Berna hand beats too in the
push and Eric about you said yes and you gotta
do it, And then me and Bob Power and Tarique

(01:03:28):
we flew to Dallas, which at that point she was
literally it was still I think we did.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
You got me?

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Maybe early ninety eight, because I know that Dre three thousand.
When we got to the studio, Erica just finished whatever
she was singing on Outcast's Liberation, so a quim and
I wasn't out yet, so I feel like this is
early ninety eight.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
We get there, we do it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
It was cool, but I didn't have the fire in
my soul that I felt with Jill's version. At one
point midway, Erica stopped and said, yo, her version is jamming, Yo, Like,
why don't y'all just use her version? And I was
about to agree, and Rich was like, you know, Rich's
whole thing is like, look, let's let's say be it
like just attempted a few times in Revenue and you
don't work with it. If it doesn't work, then da

(01:04:17):
da da da da. But knowing good and well, like
I'm not leaving here without without your vocal, without this version,
because I ready to give it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
To play it a mirror, a mir who gets to
play it this week? Who should get to play it
this week?

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
On versus First of all, with this episode, even be it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
Does not matter, people will still want to know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
I just need to know this is after this just yes,
this would be afterwards, but still who gets who gets
the right to put.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Well, there's two versions of you Got Me, so Erica
can play her version from being's small part and from
bell part. I say, I say, I would say it's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Because you did opera, jazz blues, no anybody, that's that's
a whole.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
It's long, it is long.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
It was.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Jill's version of you You Got Me is also one of
the things fall apart.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
It is twentieth anniversary. It is I think that's rather cute.
Go ahead, I was gonna say. I think two things. One,
I think Jill.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Should get to play it because she wrote it. Two,
I would like to offer my hot take the complexity.
Complexity is a far better song than You Got Me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
That's just me. Let's start.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
That's complexity because I must give Jill props with complexity
because complexity is a very hard word to sing, and
you would not said it that so well.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
And yeah, complexity is my joint. That's like my favorite
roots Jill joint. I love that fucking song. You know
what weird We knock that often like fifteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
I remember it's knocking out very quickly and me actually
thinking like wow, this was not the like, thank god,
this wasn't the drama that you got me? Was?

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
There was there.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
Lyrics to complexity. When I came in, I don't remember no.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
But it just hit me. It just hit me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
You were one of the fourteen for the you Oh
my god, we did you know what? Complexity was so
easy it made me forget the drama that was that
you got me or now you got me to break
you off?

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
To break you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
Remember that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
And you know what's weird? E, this is so weird
to say this on the air. Jill, you wrote that
bridge break you Off? I forgot she wrote that?

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
Did she get that crut?

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
That's what I'm thinking about that right now, Like wait
a minute.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
Now is your time for all apologies that you have to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Wait?

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
I get to Actually I could do a whole episode
alone on the drama that was break you Off. By
the time it got to Jill, it wasn't even break
you off. It was magic Foster whatever it was, your your.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Metaphor magic false magic.

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
Yea wait, Jill, you don't remember it, like like an
old Jill Scott poem.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Okay, so you know the second part, you know the
second part that the second part.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Of the song that music sings baby, right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
He changed the words, but that was that was Jill's course,
and it was like it was it was some sort
of metaphorical uh definition of whatever, like i'll you know,
i'll stroke something and then your FOSSi turned.

Speaker 4 (01:07:46):
You know, I wrote that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Well, the only part they kept was the baby, baby baby,
and then you're it's we're different.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
But I think I think carbon.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
It sounds foreign to you.

Speaker 4 (01:08:04):
I think magic, fawcet, elementary.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
No you you break you off. Started with weird enough
Keky Wyatt to read, all right, Who's who's the guy
that invented the King of Comedy? Uh no, no no,
but uh the guy that that promoted the other black

(01:08:29):
Steve Marves, not bi.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Al Hayman.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
But whoever that guy is that? I mean, he's the
Will Packard of kind of for the comedy. He's the
reason why Harvey, Steve Harvey and Mack and and all those,
etcric the entertainers are the stars they are now. He's
the one that threw the Kings of Comedy that Spike shot.

(01:09:00):
He had an idea to have a black SNL and
we shot that, uh that pilot in two thousand and one,
and it was like, the Roots were the house band.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
Think of SNL.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
We shot a blown up with earthquake and whoever the
black comedians were that were popping at the time shot
this thing, and the Roots were the house band, and
Kiki Whatt and Music were sitting in with us and
just fucking around.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
That's how it break you off gets birthed. And it
was like, hey, that song we didn't sound check. That
was pretty cool and let's let's do it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
And so then it went for music to I think
Alicia had showed us up seven times, and then Joe
Lavert did his version, who he technically did the best version.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
I want to Jill.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Wrote it, and then that didn't work out, and then
I think, yep, that was my plan.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
I can se.

Speaker 4 (01:10:00):
That was my plan. It was also Frankie.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
Beverly, No no, no, no no.

Speaker 4 (01:10:05):
I had three George Benson, Geraldiver does Frankie Beverly.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
I don't know. That was when I was twelve.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
That was my list twelve.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
That mustache, but okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Maybe I don't really do mature old fast.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
I thought he was fabulous because.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
I wasn't twelve years old. Think about fucking Aretha Franklin.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
When I was right, right, right, yeah, but yeah, that
song went around the world. Then then it went to
Blaud's version was the most curious because he was crying
on his version.

Speaker 4 (01:10:43):
Like.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
And then somehow just wound up back to break you off.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
But yeah, it's so by the time all that was
done then, yeah, complexity was done in like ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
So I love that song. I love that song.

Speaker 4 (01:10:57):
I like it when it's it's easy like that, when
it's you don't even think about it, it's just happening.
That's so fun, and then you go on to the
next thing. So how did I hear about it? I
was on twenty second Street. I was in North Philly.
I think I think I was probably headed to my
theater job. I don't know, I'm not sure, probably, And

(01:11:21):
it was coming out of one of the hair beauty
supply places.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
It was on you know how the wa It was
on the radio when I heard it, When she heard
a radio.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
When I heard it for the first.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Time, we are horrible, we trash. Wait, wait, she's.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Still We played the record on the radio.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Wait, no, no, on the It.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
Came out of the stores on twenty second Street. I
was coming to getting probably a perm or something, and
I was walking from the beauty supply place. It was
coming out of every store and I heard the beginning
and I got all excited. I was like, oh, ship
my my inner you know, my inner self. I'm just

(01:12:06):
so pleased and nobody knows. And I was like, oh
my god, and even when it comes on, nobody's gonna
know it's me. I'm so excited. And then I heard
a voice that was not my own, and I was like,
that's Erica and I'm looking, there's nobody to talk to.
I don't know anything. You know, I don't know anybody.
I can't share this story with anybody. So yet, I mean,

(01:12:30):
I were cell phones. I just think. I think. I
just walked to the end of the block. And by
the time I got there, I was like, Eric, aby
do is singing my song?

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
Okay, my song?

Speaker 4 (01:12:45):
No? No? I I as a writer to go from
ZIP to a Grammy Award winning singer singing your song
like I was like, I'm in, I'm in. I can't
even deny that. And then you guys were like, well,
let's take her on the road. And then I had
that horrible lawyer who tried to gank y'all for all

(01:13:06):
of this money. It was horrible. Luckily we were able
to work that out.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
I didn't even know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:12):
Oh, it was terrible. She was just trying to bleed
you dry to sing a hook to one song. I
didn't do anything else but sing one hook. And then
you took me on the road and and treated me
like a newbie and left me in Paris.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:13:32):
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, that came through. I don't
know if you heard that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Wait what happened? They Pis?

Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
There was a ticket at the desk for me to
go home. Luckily, luckily, I got the ticket and had
to figure out how to get to the airport, because
you know the French, they don't like it if you
don't see French. Straight out of fact that I found
a way to get through the airport. Through the airport
at the time, they didn't have English translation on anything

(01:14:06):
in the French airport. In the Paris airport, you could.
You could left my ass in Paris, and I learned everything.
I learned everything from you. I'm gonna say I'm mayor,
but from the roots I learned how I don't want

(01:14:26):
to travel. I learned how I don't I don't know
about how you are now. But they put me in
a hotel that it was across the street from their hotel.
I think we were in Detroit, and they said, your

(01:14:48):
hotel is over there, and I was like over here.
They were like, yep, right across the street. Clearly, the
smell of cigarette smoke was so strong. When I walked
in the front door, I was like, I gotta take
a shower.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
I gotta take a shower. I'm on a bus.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
Full of dudes. I can't. I gotta take a shower.
So I go in the room and and it's you
know how, it's when the woodworks have been painted again
and again and again again. Yeah, the bad I questioned.
I was like, okay, I can't do that. So I

(01:15:24):
took all the towels and I put them into and
I showered and dried off with my clothes and.

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
Got out of there.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
But while I was in the shower, I had my
luggage up against the door because on the outside they
were like, I told you back my money sold on.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
So let me understand that. So this was a hotel,
this was a motel. Like you opened the door and
it led to outside, It led.

Speaker 4 (01:15:51):
To crazy house. It was a small house with winding
steps that they called the hotel that I think they
used prostution.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
That was the damn halfway house.

Speaker 4 (01:16:04):
That's where I was staying. Yes, samn, Yes, explains a lot,
because I bet you on that tour in Switzerland and
I was like, man, she showing short with the hello
nice Okay she was yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Damn y'all had jill in the lack of wanna blues house.

Speaker 4 (01:16:20):
You guys, I feel like everybody has to have They
have to be haze to a certain degree.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
You have a writer.

Speaker 4 (01:16:31):
It was the same way with theater. It's the same
way with this business. It's the same way with touring.

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
Y'all would do this.

Speaker 4 (01:16:38):
This is my favorite. You never you didn't smoke. But
the guys would be like, yeah, me so, oh is
good for that?

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
No he is, admittedly, so he don't.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
It was it was everybody. The only person that was
nice to me. Come Al was nice to me, and
Comar was nice to me. And Hub would occasionally hub.

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:17:10):
There was a gentleman there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:17:15):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:17:16):
Occasionally he would tell me you're doing okay and I
said okay. Other than that, that was it. I learned
so much. I learned so much. Thank you? Did I
ever tell you thank you? Did I ever tell you?
Thank you so so so much my life.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
I feel like if we had the sound bite of
Miss Sophia saying, woman ain't chasing a house full of men.

Speaker 4 (01:17:44):
Damn Yeah, that's the roughest tour I've ever been on
to maintain that fro, that whole tour, that that fro
was beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
It made Muhammada go wait, somebody. I feel like.

Speaker 4 (01:17:59):
That my barber had my hair looking like it was gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Man, remember barber's.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
Oh man, Yeah, thank you so Jill, damn it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
It's okay, okay, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
Okay, it's okay.

Speaker 4 (01:18:20):
I've done everything happens for a reason, nothing but none
of this would have happened if not for the other thing.

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
So right, it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
Our first real extended conversation has lasted more than an
hour in our twenty years of knowing each other, and
now I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Understand why she ended up working with jazz.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
Jail ladies and gentlemen. You hate to hear it, I
hate to say it, but you know, hey, it is
what it is. That's only part one of our two
part interview with Jill Scott next week. We promise you,

(01:18:56):
promise you more, more and.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
More, Jill.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
I know, I know it was cool, right and then
I had to come in and I know anyway, QLs.
We will see y'all next week with part two of
Jill Scott.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
Thank you All. What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
Listen to your favorite shows.