Monica Lynch Pt. 2

Women's History Month at Questlove Supreme continues with part two of the Monica Lynch episode. The former A&R-turned-president of Tommy Boy Records shares vivid memories surrounding Naughty By Nature, Club Nouveau, Queen Latifah, and RuPaul.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. So,
ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Quest Love Supreme. We
are here this morning or this afternoon, as uh on
pay Bill has already corrected me. Uh, well, we normally

(00:22):
do our our episodes at nighttime, so this is one
of the rare moments where um, we're doing a daytime episode.
We we attended to do an a daytime episode Will Smith,
but I thought Will was trying to pull him Mariah,
and I thought it was one a m. In the morning.
I didn't realize we're doing it in the afternoon, so
you know, so, yeah, daytime Quest Love Supreme should be

(00:43):
very interesting. So you know, at the time when we
were talking to our guest Monica Lynch, I didn't realize.
Of course, I knew every potential QULS episode could possibly
delve into Jimmy Jam territory. Every time we refer to
Jimmy Jam, it's usually to the fact that you know
that that particular episode was what six and a half

(01:05):
hours six and a half hours, Monica, you could take
any one of the acts as you discovered, and that
could be a whole episode by itself exactly those so
you know lately, we've we've been um since our new
home at I Heart, we kind of crammed our show
down to normal. You know. When we first started, I

(01:27):
think the our standard was to be a three hour episode.
I realized that sometimes a person's story arc goes over
ninety minutes, and I guess towards the end of that episode,
I didn't want to just skim over casual moments in history. So, uh,
our our guest today was very kind to oblige us

(01:47):
apart two kind of a first in our in our show,
usually we just you know, do an entire show for
four hours, and then you might run the risk of
the ire of Saint Hall of Notes, who were clearly
running out of gas after his eyes said what is
this done? Because it better be soon, Dar. You couldn't

(02:09):
even see his eyes, but they still said that ship.
QLs fans are gonna be so angry because like I like,
you know, I like to build up from the beginning
of their lives to the peak of their thing. And
I really didn't even get the nerd out on kind
of the the the glory Beer of Darryl. I was like, yeah,
so I can't go for that, So anyway, you got

(02:29):
a solo record out now you somebody just told us
that they had to go. Who was recently somebody was
just like, yeo, I gotta go, John Notes. John Notes
pulled to George Clinton, all right, so y'all have fun.
I'm out my dinners right with darl Whole went wow,
this interviews long, We're like, we gotta go that. There's

(02:51):
some people that are guests on the show, that are
fans of the show that know that we nerd out
on stuff. But you know a lot of times like
Stephen Stout was another example where he was just shocked.
We wanted to know the the but now minutia of
his career, like you imagine Steve Stout do an entire
interview and did we even mention the puffy bottle situation
and we got into it. Yeah, if that were drink champs,

(03:13):
you know, that would have been North's first question. You know,
how many stitches did you get? But all that to
say is we're very grateful for our guess today. Monica Lynch,
president of Tommy Boy Records and arguably one of the
most uh successful I guess storied labels, not even hip
hop labels, because a lot of their success came outside

(03:35):
of hip hop. You can tell it just got done
listening to I've been nerding out on what had happened
was so I feel like open my equal now. Like
the way that I'm asking questions anyway, I know way
way to cross promove other right, I spread the love anyway.
Monica Lynch, thank you very much for for blige around

(03:58):
two oh man, say it's great to be back because
you know, like I was telling your crew, I've been
hearing from everyone now kids. I used to babysit for said, Yo,
you're a West Love supreme. I can't believe it. You're
legit now like you, thank you so much you give
you give us the credibility. This is the first time

(04:21):
that a guest can actually come back on the show
and tell us about the feedback because we get such
a quick turnaround. This is dope. I like that, right,
I like that so, Monica. So when we kind of
last left the previous episode, we we kinda put the
pump the brakes on signing day La and really not
sensing that there was going to be a part too.
You know again, as I said, I was skimming through

(04:41):
a lot of questions but now that I have a
little more time on my hands, I kind of want
to ask one more question. So, you know, with the
problems with the problems of having well we discussed with
Planet Rocket least, the problems of having massive demands and
very little staff and knowing you know your history, you
guys are sort of churn ing out not just street

(05:01):
credit records, but actual pop hits like Tender Love and
Lean On Me. You told the Tender Love story, but
can you kind of speak on how you guys connected
with J King of Club New Vaux and I guess
the facto manager of time X Social Club. I always
felt like Club New Vaux was a quick response group

(05:22):
to the imploding of time X Social Club with having
such a massive hit, and with that group, I felt
there was a precursor to what did he became? Because
J King clearly looked out of place on stage as Okay,
that guy's clearly the CEO of the label trying to
promote himself with an actual group of musicians. But can
you talk about how that whole story came to be? Yeah,

(05:46):
thank you. The you know, time X Social took Club
was one of those hits that came out of the
West coast, and not just the West coast, Sacramento of
all places, you know, Sacco Potatoes. You know. The other
thing in Sacramento back then was of course, it was
the head course of Tower Records. UM. So it wasn't
really from a scene that was already you know, uh

(06:08):
set like in l A or the Bay Area or
New York or where have you. Um, but that that
record was a huge record, was on everybody's radar, of course,
and I think it really broke up the West coast. Um.
But yeah, so you had Jay King, you had Denzil

(06:29):
Foster and Thomas McElroy, you know, great producers who went
on to major, major success. And I'm I can't even
remember who the female voice was of the group Valley Shows.
I think Valley heard first name is Valley and Samuel
who also had a Samuel Well that's right, yeah, but

(06:55):
it was actually this was one of those unique situations
because we were already in a deal with Warner Brothers.
And shortly after that deal uh started, which was around
I guess eighty five maybe eighties six, whenever Tender Love
came out, there was a guy that was hired at
Warner Broller's named Benny Medina. Yes, indeed, and Benny was

(07:19):
made the head of Black Music A and r UM.
He started in eighty six, I think around eight C.
I think it was circa eight six, Yeah, I'm not sure.
For our listeners out there, we've mentioned Benny a few
times on the show. Um, Benny is technically the fresh
Prince of bel Air. The you know, the life of

(07:43):
what Will Smith is playing is actually based on Benny
Medina's story, and I guess uh Lenny Kravitz sort of
mentioned on his episode that you know, Benny started out
kind of as who who was? Who was Diddy's uh
sidekick with the umbrella. Yeah, he was kind of the
finds Worth Bentley to kind of second seventies early eighties

(08:06):
era Barry Gordy, and he formed a very interesting disco
rock band called Apollo. Um. I've only seen him performance
just yes, so I put quotes on it. Uh work

(08:27):
no google Bennie Medina Polo. Um. I've only seen him
on Soul Train and Dance Fever, And you know, even
at the age of eight, I was like, Wow, this
is weird. But of course Apollo contained Carry Gordy, who
was also became a kind of got a day job
as a as an executive. You know, Carry's younger brother

(08:48):
was rockwell of somebody's watching me fame. But so what
she mentions Benny Medina, You know, Benny Medina starts off
as the real life fresh Prince bell Air. Uh, works
at Warner for some time period and then becomes like
super manager of j Lo and Will Smith and everyone.
So sorry, I gotta do footnotes for good. Yeah, no, man,

(09:10):
this is breaking it down. Yeah, yeah, he was. He
had lived at the Gordy family at some point after Apollo. Uh,
he was hired by Mo Austin at Warner Brothers, and
he was made the head of Black A and R
Black Music A and R and his you know, his
very early signings. Uh. I don't know if you remember

(09:32):
the Female Body Inspectors. No FBI, FBI. There was enough.
I've heard of this before you today. Kids just used
to say it on the playground. I didn't know it
was a group, but to discus. And then there's a
There was another guy named she I think Cedric or

(09:53):
Shudric or he was he was sorry, I had that
West Coast you know, curl activate are you talking about
Wait a minute, is that share. Is that the sherik
that's part of Wendy wins this story? Yes, yes it is.
What she didn't he do? Call your name? Just call it.

(10:18):
You can't call me what you want know and just
called it was like the greatest Luther song that Luther
never sang. But I believe At the top of Wendy
Williams's UH story, her biopic kind of the beginning of
her trauma, starts with UH an unfortunate vision visit to
his hotel. Yeah, oh, and unfortunate visit to his hotel

(10:44):
room sort of begins the beginning of Wendy's trauma era.
Notes this is cool, Okay, man, I got Fonte on
this show. Man, I gotta keep up with helpful useless
information about Army. Actually never heard of man monitude. Guy's
all right, So Benny was making his way. You know,

(11:06):
he'd had a couple of signings. Um, nothing had really
blown up, you know, big time. But he uh got
ahold of Ja King when time X Social Club broke
and you know, Jay King was really very intense, kind

(11:27):
of difficult. He would like he would have you believe that,
he would have you believed yet, Yeah, he was a
rather compact guy. Short record executives scared the ship out
of me. So all right, now, yeah, night at all
but short short dudes. Yeah, he looked like he was

(11:50):
buying his suits on Broad Street and Newark. You know,
you're you know, Sunday Church Special episodes, and you know,
because he just didn't he had this whole other look.
And I've got a fantastic photo of me, Benny and
and Jay King together from that era, and it sort

(12:12):
of says a lot just in this one photo. But anyway,
it was Benny who um brought in Jay King and
what became Club New Vaux. I think that the group
was already sort of at falling apart, and there was
power struggles because Jay was a very you know, he
ran things with an iron fist in that organization. But

(12:36):
so Club New Vot was you know, when time X
fell apart, Club New Vot was the answer. Yes, you're
right about that, and UM and the album came out
through Warner Brothers and through Benny and our deal with
Warner Brothers. Tommy Boy released all of the Club New
Vaux twelve inch singles, which was very significant because they

(12:59):
had a bunch of hits. You know, Um, and again
this was a group that was like, who the hell
are they? You remember all the album cover and twelve
inch cover artwork, yes, club news like silhouette or you
can be it looked like well, it kind of looked
like it looked like prison art. Yeah really, yes, wow

(13:21):
damn Monica could be borderline member too, and they have
like the back drop exactly it looked like that, right, Yeah,
it did look like it kind of looked like outside
or art or something you put next to the you
know those albums. Listen to the message and Life and
matter of fact, I did not buy Life, Love and

(13:43):
Pain because I didn't like the album cover asking it damn,
but it's just their face. Oh it does look like
a prison. I forget about the first album, not the
second album. Somebody needs to look up who did the
artwork on all those because there was the same person
who did all that artwork, and I think it in fact,

(14:03):
it was the same woman who was portrayed on those
all those covers. And it was ingenious because nobody really
knew a club New Vau looked like. But there was
such a strong branding and identity with those covers. You
knew when you went into the store. If you bought
um situation number nine that you knew what jealousy. You know,

(14:26):
you could say, oh, it looks like jealousy, you know,
buy them all, collect the whole set number nine, glean
know me. They all had the same Yeah, they all
had the same artwork style, same artist, and I think
it was the same female model that was used, like
she was going through different phases of emotions on the

(14:48):
cover artwork and all this. But you know, that sound
was such a it was a sound that really tra
traveled quite well. I mean, we never had any records
that sounded like Club New Vaux. That is not in
New York, you know, sound even remotely. And but in
the South, the West, Midwest, all these places, people love

(15:11):
those Club New Vote records. They may not know who
Club New Vote is though, the records well they I
mean they were kind of close to what Jimmy jam
and Terry Lewis were doing. Like you could almost say
that Club New Vote was probably a precursor to the
New Jack sound. Yeah, you can rhyme over rumors like

(15:35):
back in the day, rumors could have been a b
on who Deanie's arcord? Like I guess they sort of
took the time where Larry Smith wasn't able to carry
very melodic you know, sort of funky, sort of slower um. Yeah,
And I think I think you're right. You know, Jimmy

(15:56):
and Terry's influence was being widely you know, their sound
as being widely copied at that point at the time
when time X Social Club imploded, kind of my only
Internet at least what Real time news was always like
Lee Bailey's radio scope. So around that time period, there's

(16:16):
a lot of back and forth between Ja King and
the time X Social Clubs, guys like dissing each other.
And this is the first time I'm seeing like what
I considered an R and B situation, Like it's one
thing for like l L and mc shand to go
to each other because okay, they're rappers. It's supposed to
do that, but you know, not to this level. But
that said, were you guys even allowed to have uh

(16:40):
an audience with with Denzel uh and Thomas for their
production or did you did you get a sense that
they were doing all the work musically? Well, first of all,
I would say Denzel and Thomas were really nice guys,
you know, cool, easy to deal with, You know, just
cool guys. Jay was kind of a more sort of

(17:01):
paranoid um type of guy. And like I said, he
really was had he was a bit of a control freak. Really,
I could see where anyone would chafe under his leadership.
And and and I don't know what the business was
that they had arranged, but I'm having I have a
feeling it probably wasn't particularly advantageous for Danny and Tommy,

(17:25):
so Denzel and Thomas. So I don't recall. I just
remember Jay always being a guy that was quick, quick tempered,
you know, very controlling, you know, not an easy guy
to get along with, tightly wound. But to his credit,

(17:47):
I would say also that he had a pretty strong
vision about what he wanted and that it worked. So,
you know, they had a brief and glorious run. And
it's of course what was the put five on? It
was much sad. Yeah, why you treat me so bad?
Why you treat me so bad? Yeah? So um, but

(18:10):
I after lean on me. I don't know whatever happened
to you know, Jay King or anyone, you know, Danny,
Denzel and Thomas of course went on with being the
I mean, with that marriage of Warner Brothers and um,

(18:31):
Tommy Boy. I noticed that was the only label that
you saw both logos on. Was there a reason for that? Like,
is there a reason why three Behind Rising and Naughty
and all the other subsequent Tommy Boy releases also didn't
have the Warner Brothers logo on it. Oh, it's it's
actually a pretty simple explanation. The deal with Warner Brothers

(18:54):
was that, um, we would have discussions so mutually agree
on what artists and albums would be best suited to
go through Tommy Boys independent distribution system and and and
there were select artists like four some d S for example,

(19:16):
um who uh where they had a shot at getting
you know, top ten black radio hits. And and Warner
Brothers had an in house you know, black music promotion
and marketing department that we didn't have, And so we
would mutually agree upon which releases would go through you

(19:38):
know which system. So the palatable R and B non
hip hop stuff went through WARNS sometimes. Yeah, I mean,
and there wasn't like there was that much of it.
I mean the four s m d S might be
might have been the only one, but there was That's
not true either. Information society was well, you know, no,

(20:00):
every kid in uh oh wait, that wasn't Information Society.
It was close. No, it was no Silent Morning, I
think was Noel. Was that Tommy You're thinking Running, well,
you know it's it's uh Information Society was um with
Their first record was Running, and they were from Minneapolis
and they were they had an interesting story because um

(20:25):
they actually were on a label up in Minneapolis. I
think it's called Twin Tone, an indie sort of I
don't know, alternative rock type of label, and they had
this record called Running. It was and it was actually
little Louis Vega who was working as a DJ at
El Nido del Diablo The Devil's Nest, which was club

(20:47):
which was all about Tilo's other club was running the
Fever Disco Fever, but you opened this place called the
Devil's Nest. And and Louis Vega, who, along with Joey
Gardner Tommy Boy, was also one of the pioneers of
the whole Latin freestyle scene and sound picked up on

(21:08):
this uh Information Society record and turned Joey Gardner onto it,
and that it was Joey who brought Information Society to
Tommy Boy. Joey is my neighbor. He lives upstairs from
me and we're like family. You know, he's a kid
I plucked out of Crazy Eddie's twelve inch department. Like

(21:29):
back in two or eight, Wow Eddies was a player
in in selling records. Um, you mentioned Information Society they did. Uh? Also,
I want to know, what do you think your energy? Yeah?
So I mean even with groups like that sort of
coming ahead of the curve of like I don't know

(21:51):
what you would call like depeche Mode or kind of
like those type those type of yeah, well, post New
Waves sort of like I mean, it's it's not pop,
it's not rock, but it's definitely synth based. I guess.
For me, my question is is it possible for an
independent label, which I mean I imagine that you guys

(22:12):
were sort of like the equivalent of trying to navigate
a tricycle on the four oh five, So, you know,
is it possible for an an independent label to navigate
itself in the age of majors? You know, like, is
A and M truly the last independent major that could

(22:34):
operate as a major label? And you know what held
you guys because I actually feel like you guys were
in that Motown and M Lane where Tommy Boy could
actually became a major. But like, is someone cutting you
guys off at the knees at the top, or like,
how does that happen? Well, you know, it's interesting because

(22:55):
that you go back to really um distribution because there
was in the early eighties there were A and m Uh,
Motown and I think it was might have been Arista,
I'm not sure. There were three of the very very
large independent labels were they were independently distributed and then

(23:18):
they became majors, and so it left this entire different
field of smaller labels that were that constituted the indies
and independent distribution. But the independent distribution distributors really sort
of got the rug pulled out from under them when
Motown and A and M left UM, so we actually

(23:41):
presented opportunities for labels like ours. But when you so
that's that might have been in the very early eighties,
maybe late seventies when they had happened. But fast forward
to you know, circa eighties six or so, you know,
be it Tommy Boy or any of the other independent labels,
it was almost impossible to even contemplate having pop records

(24:05):
and cracking top forty radio or or even it was
a pretty rare event even have you know, be able
to have a top five or top ten black radio single.
You know, we just didn't have the sort of muscle.
I mean, these these are labels that had full on departments,
and they had a lock on the slots. You know,

(24:28):
it was not an even playing field. You know a
lot of time, where is it a thing where uh,
let's say, like Walter YETNI call it at Sony or
you know where Okay, you guys are basically fighting for
at least thirty or forty positions at a major label,
And is it a thing where it's just an unspoken

(24:50):
given that you know, we gotta save at least fifteen
spots for a Sony artist a Michael Jackson, Chad h
I wouldn't even say it was unspoken, you know, uh yeah, spoken,
I mean you know it was be it wasn't even
uh you know, it was just so much muscles, so

(25:11):
much leverage. You know, you want Springsteen tickets, you want
to do the giveaways for you know, you know, refrigerator,
you know you've got this, You've got that. We just
didn't have those those sort of resources, those tools, it's
not like things your success was word of mouth, like, wow,
I really like this Leano Me song, so let me
add it. The any hits that we had had to

(25:33):
have much more muscle and and hit power behind it
to even get a shot. Really, but you know, uh
but lean On Me, of course was unique in that
it was a cover, It was in a big film,
It was on a big soundtrack, you know, so uh,

(25:53):
you know, it had a lot of there was a
lot of support mechanisms with that particular rack. And did
the club DJ's help with that too? Like it was
seeing like a lot of club New World records, we're
working in the clubs that did that work in your
favorite a little bit more? I would say, you actually
their biggest hit thing, Lena and Me was probably not
really it wasn't. It wasn't. Yeah, I wasn't a club record.

(26:17):
The other records were much more you know, street and
club type of records and radio black radio records. Um,
but Lena and Me was I forget. I can't even
remember the name of the movie. All right, well there
you go, you go. So you know, well that's also
after the fact because Leno Me came out in like

(26:38):
eighty nine, whereas a single camp you know, Club New
Vote came out in eighty six. But yeah, you know,
it's it's it's a thing where it's a song where
both generations gen Z, gen X and Baby Bone owners
knew the song and it was weird to hear, you know,
it was like, you know, the beat felt like post
Rick Ruben def Jam, So it was definitely yeah, yeah, yeah.

(27:03):
And there was a great woman who worked for many,
many years at mc A Records named Kathy Nelson. And
Kathy was really one of the pioneers of that soundtrack
era that was so huge in the late eighties and
early nineties, and she put a lot of black artists

(27:26):
on those soundtracks where that wasn't necessarily happening as much
prior to that. She was always like she'd said, Na,
you've got anything, I'm looking for a track for this record?
How about that Club Nouveaux. She had a funny way
of talking. She was great. She's had a lot of energy,
very dynamic, redheaded gal. She was a powerhouse. She worked

(27:49):
there with L. Teller. I don't know if you remember
L Teller. Yeah, so uh in any case, but she
was it was her through her that we got that placement,
you know. Um. And also I just want to say
you before we get off the topic entirely of Benny Medina.
Benny played a very critical role with Tommy Boy in

(28:11):
that he um brought in. Uh. It was through him
actually that Naughty by Nature landed on Tommy Boy. And
it's a secuitous route. Yeah. Well, I want to make
sure I get it all right, but I probably won't.
But but the thing is is that once upon a

(28:32):
time we were pitched to sign Naughty by Nature, but
they weren't Naughty by Nature at that time. They were
called somebody helped me the new style and you style. Yeah,
and and they were actually on a label called Bona

(28:54):
Me which was part of Sylvia and Joe Robinson's empire.
And they were wearing and they wore zoot suits. No
they didn't, No, no, not Vinny, they did not. Yeah, yeah,
I had a photo. Yes, So they weren't They were
not Naughty by Nature yet. And they didn't weather and sound, attitude,

(29:19):
style nothing. You know, they were in a different larval
stage of their career. So can I ask, did you
guys truly know what you had? Because only in retrospect
I will say that Naughty by Nature is probably the
best storied example of writing the thin line between authentic

(29:44):
hip hop because as as an m C and a lyricist,
you know, Trench was no joke. Trunch was influential, like
so good almost like he's in L's Lane where you
know you're so good you don't get credit. Yes, that's Trench. Yes,
And but these songs like they wrote massive anthems and
like they're they're not for really good pop hooks. Did

(30:07):
you know instantly, Oh we can really? Because I mean
they're coming out post wild thing, postbuster move where like
a pop rapper really has to go non threatening rat
to get to the other side. Like, did you guys
know instantly what you had or was it sort of
like a learning process where oh wait a minute, we

(30:28):
we we can do another one and another one and
another one. Well no, no, I think that. Well, first
of all, they weren't all all those records and that's
been recorded, you know at single point. I think anyone
who heard O p p knew that they were listening
to a smash it. There was a one listen record.
Nobody you know, you didn't have to you have to

(30:48):
have a real tin he or not to hear O
P P UM? Was that the response from radio when
they when you played it for them, Monica, I'm just curious.
They were like, oh yeah, and well before radio, I
mean radio was not always the first stop, you know.
But here's the thing, here's the stage setting that when
Naughty Boy Nature came around and they had O p P.

(31:10):
These were guys from New Jersey and nobody was really
checking for New Jersey at that point. New Jersey was
not the most legit place to be from as an
MC at that point in time, you had to be
from the Five Borough. Didn't matter. Yeah, it didn't matter.
It did matter because you're you were in that era

(31:32):
of sort of clicks and cruise and who are you
down with? And who's your producer? Pretty red man? Right?
What the album two? Okay? Okay, yeah, I mean I forget.
Maybe somebody can you know, tell me what the first album? Okay,
so so O p P came out before this, so

(31:53):
I might have been ninety or not early ninety one.
But the thing is is that no one was really
checking for Naughty by Nature. The O p P, however,
was one of those records where you know, I always
I've always said this, the best records you can never
get are the ones that a two year old and
a hundred and two year old can get into, you know,

(32:15):
because it crossed all party lines, and you had that
Jackson five sample that people knew it was part of
the musical DNA for damn near everybody. But the thing
that really was a very big turning point for Naughty
by Nature being uh, you know, elevated and checked in

(32:36):
a different way was when the the premier issue, well
I should say it was sort of like the test
run issue of Vibe came out, and in fact it
wasn't even called Vibe yet, it was called Volume. And
I was friends with the guy who was the editor,
the first editor, um Alan Leat Alan White, No no, no.

(33:00):
Allen was later um the little race cells are not
what they used to be. He's a big writer for
a lot for Vogue and a lot of other places now,
but um no, first first editor Vibe, Jonathan Van Meter,

(33:21):
and I was kind of friendly with him and this
guy named Gil Rogan at Time, uh, Time Warner Publications,
Time Magazine and all the publications that they had. Anyway,
it was just it was Quincy Jones project. Of course. Anyway, somehow,
um I said, oh, you know what if I went

(33:42):
to uh, you know, um God, what is his name now,
the photographer that did the big photo. I went to
the No, this is all before Jonathan Manion, but it's
a really incredibly well known photographers. Said oh, you know,
we could do this story about all of the hip

(34:02):
hop artists who are starting to wear tattoos. And that
was Darting. Wow, it was his thing. Well, you know,
this is very early nineties and there was a lot
of kids who were really starting to get into the
tattoo scene. And and so um I lined up this

(34:23):
photo session and and I said, oh yeah, I'll get
you know, I got Puffy and um the guys, um
I got Naughty and a bunch of people from different
groups in different camps. And he did the photo session
and the big, the big photo that came out of
it was Tretch with a shirt off, arms up like this,

(34:49):
and that landed on the cover of what was the
really the first issue of Vibe and like again I
guess it was. It was a test run issue. I
think at that point they called it Volume, and they
had to change the name because the word volume was
owned by some other publication in the UK. Watson Albert Watson,

(35:10):
thank you, Yes it was Albert Watson. Great guy, really
an amazing photographer. And um, but in any case, uh,
you know, Scott Poulson Brian came up with a much
better name for for the publication. But it was that
cover that Women Saw a trench cover game over. Yeah. Yeah,

(35:35):
so that was the game changing Zoo suits gone, ok,
machete you know, like the machete, the the huge chains
and trench. You know, like this women just and it
was like, so so Treutch is all of a sudden

(35:55):
a sex symbol and Naughty continues having really amazing hits
and KG you know, I think also underrated Frankly as
a producer, a really great producer. Um and Vinnie was like,
you know, such the spark plug of the group. They
were fantastic as a live act and they kept having

(36:18):
these great records. Yeah but they but at that point,
you know, when O p P came out, it really
knew Jersey was not really happening. And um, one of
the other things that was really big about O p
P S when we did the video for opp and
we did this is a crazy thing, but This is
how it was independent labels back then. We just made

(36:39):
these little stickers. They cost nothing to make. It says
you down with O P P. And then they featured
prominently in the video. We would hand out packs of
a hundred and a thousand stickers. They were, you know,
hand them out all over the place. It was like
having an your own street army of kids spreading the
word on open just with those damn stickers. And then

(37:01):
everybody wanted the stickers. It was like you got don't
want them stickers, You got them stickers and put it
on my traffic keeper by exactly. It's like when you
give a kid a pack of stickers. They were like deputized. Yes,
was there any truth to the room. I've read this
a lot of places. Was there any truth to the

(37:23):
room with that Tritch or someone from not I don't
know if you're brought a bag of snakes. Yes, it's
not a rumor, it's truth. And I'm happy to share
that story because someone someone asked me about this recently
and I said, yeah, here's the story. Man on a

(37:46):
weekday morning, a Tommy boy um. And again we're talking
about maybe crack of dawn, like ten am or something.
I was in my office and the receptionists said, hey,
e Tretches here with some of his guys, Um, Pooky
and I forget who that maybe three guys. I think

(38:09):
there's always a Pookie, and I still remember Pookie. Pookie
is action a nice guy. But they're here. They're demanding
to see Tom. They're kind of upset, and and Tom
wasn't there and so and his office door was closed,
so they marched around. They marched around the around the

(38:30):
corner to my office, my office that Tommy boy was
across from the only bathroom. There were no windows in
my office, you know, poor ventilation. You know, I got
the whole smell division in my office. But it was um.
But they just showed up in my office. And Tretch
he was, you know, Tretch is actually kind of a

(38:51):
quiet guy. He was a man of few words. Really
wasn't like, you know, he wasn't like yelling or you
know whatever, hopping off or anything. He just had this
shoe box, uh, and he opened it and he dumped
out what were really like garter snakes and mice. These

(39:15):
were the type of things that you would have gotten
at a pet supply store, and mice yeah, Mice and
Garter say and so and and of course like I'm
you know, mortified, like what the funk? And they you know,
and then they just ran out. There's no like explanation
or anything. Well, come to from your successful groups. Yes, yes, right,

(39:40):
that's the ones that was getting left like ghetto Bastard.
It wasn't didn't go double platinum more the one wasn't.
Here's why it happened. So it was dumbest fucking ship.
There had been a dispute that really involved the business
affairs guy and the group's attorney and it was over. Now,

(40:01):
when I talk about the most mundane ship, it's sort
of munday. When you had cassettes for the you know,
such a probably the number one format at that time,
uh for for albums, and there was a big dispute
over the JA card for the album that was coming

(40:22):
out because you know how like when you get a
jay card and sometimes they would be folding out and
advertising stuff for whatever lyrics and blah blah blah. Well
there's a dispute because Naughty had started making their Naughty
gear and they wanted they wanted to have a free
panel on the jay card, and lawyers being lawyers, they

(40:45):
were started dicking each other over about well, if you're
gonna have this panel, you're gonna have to pay point
zero seven cents per panel, blah blah blah. By the
time this is translated to the group, you know, it
has become World War three. And I wasn't even really
aware of what the issue was. But the thing is

(41:08):
is that what year did this happen? The snakes and uh,
they know that what year this was. I mean, I
would guess this is probably when this incident happened is
before we moved downtown. So but it was in the
age of maybe Beeper's and you know, stuff like that.

(41:31):
So by the time word made its way downtown to
the source and the rest of the hip hop world,
it had become like yo. And then he brought Anacondas
and Stuart Rats and it became, you know, within ten
fifteen minutes, it was like, you know, the biggest event.

(41:55):
It would have made more sense if you would have
Anna Conda's and Boa Constrictors because like gardens bake to
some small like pet store mice. Well, he was making
a statement, and I guess the statement he wanted to
make was, Hey, you know you guys are rats and
snakes some snakes on your desk. You wouldn't hear what
kind of snakes? You're right? No, no no, you forgot no, no, no, no.
I saw water bug last night. I almost so. Then So,

(42:18):
then about less than an hour after the incident, I
get a call from Shot Kim and Shot him is
Latifa's business partner and also managed a naughty and he
was apologizing a man. You know, he just was smoking
some strong stuff this morning or whatever it was. He

(42:40):
was really bustop and I'm sorry that it happened. Blah
blah blah. But it already it became one of those
things of hip hop lore. So but that's a story.
But I added to their whole. Yeah, yeah, I was.
You know, listen, it's one of the Look we're sitting
here in two you're asking me about where, so you know,

(43:01):
obviously it's lived on in infamy. Were your office is
located on First Avenue? Yes, we were, Okay, I'd say
we were in the hip hop hinter lands. It was
York Avenue, First Avenue in uh an area called York Villey.
We're very close to where the Mayor's uh you know, Okay,

(43:25):
I'm only asking that's it's an inside joke. Uh, I
never knew it's it's it's one of those moments where
Dayla had jokingly credited a fictional like a song what
was the B side to uh me myself? And I fante,
Oh what's more? What's more was credited to uh being

(43:49):
a song on the soundtrack to Hell on First Avenue?
And I was like, is that a real movie? And
I didn't know if they told me that if Tommy
Boy was on referring to Tommy Boy, but probably yeah
it was. You know, It's funny because we were up there.
We had these offices above a soccer store called Dos Soccer,

(44:12):
and uh, but Jive Records was actually just a couple
of blocks over over on Lexington, and uh, you know
I used to walk over there sometimes and Brenda ky
Starr lived across the street from the Tommy Boy offices
and uh, yeah, no, Actually it was a great run
at those offices. Actually, fun fact, I believe the roots

(44:35):
shot there. Proceed to video with Roy Ayres on the
rooftop of Tommy Boy. Oh you're kidding? Why does I believe?
I believe this is? This is how I got to
know who the Jazzy Fattan asked there because when we
were done shooting that video and I went down and
had to pass your offices. There's a poster of the

(44:55):
for the on the wall and then I guess someone
to put someone had to be listening to their music,
and I was like outside the door, like what the
hell is this? As crazy a should ever heard, and
someone explained that, you know, Quentin had gotten a labeled
deal with you guys and whatnot, and they gave me
a tape and I listened to it in the car
obsessively and then stalk them. And then they moved into

(45:18):
my house for the next fourteen years and never left.
You probably, Um, they're still in my house right now.
It was actually an A and our guy named Albie
Ragusa who was involved in bringing the Jazzy Fat Nasty's
are when I loved what they were doing. Um, it

(45:42):
was totally different cool out there, like incredible. You know.
My recollection though, is I think that at that point
the group themselves, We're not entirely uh, it was slowly imploding,
but I mean from what I heard, you know, Jay's
swift was really gearing them up to be if the

(46:04):
Far Side's debut album were sung by women, it would
have been like, I've never heard such a bolder, more
adventurous record ever. And kind of my chagrined is that
they came to us and I felt like the thing
that really made them awesome we got rid of. So

(46:24):
but that's neither here nor there. Well, you know, it's
too bad that that didn't come together because I think
that they would. They would. The lane was was going
to be wide open for them. Um, there wasn't. There
hadn't been anything. Yeah, like before my fan of Slum Village,
like I was about Jazzy Fatnastics ever come out? Y'all?
Can people find the Jazzy's on Tommy Boy? I mean

(46:45):
I found maybe like seven songs, Like I'm sure there's
rough mixes somewhere, but Jay Swift has it somewhere, you know.
And plus you know they're they're another great example, you know,
like Dala Soul and other acts that we've had where
the name itself, Like when we have a great name,

(47:05):
it really helps. You know, Jazzy Fat Nacy's what a
cool name is perfect? But can we just say in
this moment, everything happens for a reason, because if this
didn't happen, we wouldn't have had the Black Lily, which
means there maybe I've been a Jazzmine Sullivan kindred the family,
so a flow injury, I mean, the listens goes on
and on. So it's literally like everything happens for a reason.
Everything happens for a reason. So Monica that that said

(47:27):
about imaging, um, we we briefly glossed over the last episode,
but you know, and it's the irony is not lost
on mean that you know, kind of the nightmares stories
about the office are also happening from your most successful groups.
How are you guys feeling about the time when constantly
like if you're thinking, okay, we got Dela Soul on

(47:50):
the LLL Cool J tour, this should be smooth sailing
for them, and yet night after night, every tale of
violence and pugilism and fighting are coming from the one
group that, at least on paper, isn't supposed to represent that,
which I mean, I get their point that they felt

(48:12):
that they were paid in a hole which they would
have to sort of whatever improved there. Marchismo in in
an age where manchisimo was everything in hip hop, But
when you guys are getting reports back that you know,
every night day La is kind of getting tested by
the kids in the yard, especially on tour, and they

(48:34):
eventually get kicked off of the tour. M Are you like,
are you guys starting to think like, well, maybe we
went too far with the marketing or whatever. I mean,
from my end, that's it was a lifesaver because it
gave me something to relate to. But like, in hindsight,
what do you what do you think it was that
sort of put them in the position that they really

(48:55):
sort of disassociate themselves from three behind rising. Well, okay,
there's a lot a lot to unpack there. Um. First
of all, I think that when they came to us
they were very young. They were you know, like eighteen nineteen.
They came from much more inward type of place, in

(49:20):
an outward like a place. And the reason I say
is because it wasn't like they came up like a
lot of rappers came up doing battles, doing shows. You know,
they were already experienced live and all that stuff that
was not De la Sault. They didn't have live chops
at that point. They did there one. I think I

(49:43):
mentioned it the last episode that they did that h
that first. You know, I think it was an album
released party at pay Day and they did this incredible
show where they had the holding up the placards with
the lyrics and it was great and everyone, oh, this
is incredible, this is so different. This is the coolest ship.

(50:04):
And we had three feet high and rock rising out
and it had this really unbelievably cool and different type
of imaging and marketing. And again it was sort of
I guess for better and for worse, because I think that,
you know, people embrace the entirety of day Less because
the album was so different. The sound was so different,

(50:27):
the language was so different, their look was so different,
the imaging was so different. But yeah, they weren't road tested.
And what I think when they got out in there
on the road with you know, be at l L
or whoever else they were traveling with, and they hadn't
done the grind and they hadn't done those type of

(50:50):
live shows on a steady basis, I think that it
was they probably did feel like they had to somehow
defend themselves or prove them elves. I'm speculating here because
I was not out on the road with them. But
I think the general thing that I have taken away
from it all these years later is that they they

(51:14):
they weren't a great live act in the beginning, and
then they became a great live act, you know, once
they gained their confidence and they had more experience and
they were doing it on the regular, they you know,
found themselves. But um but I can't really put all that,

(51:34):
you know, put the blame for that. Well, Jesus, we
hadn't done a you know, a Daisy Age album cover,
none of this would have happened. You know. I think
now you know, the group has actually re embraced that
imagery and um and as part of their legacy. Um.
So if they had some rough patches there, you know,

(51:55):
finding their way from point A to point B, well
that they came out of it and they you know,
and then years later I say, man, they they were fantastic.
You know, so this is such a class thirty years
after the fact. What what what were your feelings on
day Los Soul is dead? Then? And now you know,

(52:18):
in my opinion of their entire canon, that's probably my
favorite album of their of their lot, and it's probably
the album that kind of built me like and it's weird.
I know, people talking hindsight like it's such a dark,
nasty record. I think it's actually their funniest record, Like

(52:38):
it's it's the funniest ship. It's humorus biting sarcasm um,
And you guys really did I'm at the marketing for
it was awesome, Like they got on the cover of
Rolling Stone, which was truly unheard of back then, and
especially you know once the source came into play, and

(52:59):
that was something incredible, them getting five mics there, you know,
just just in general, like what what were the exacts
at Tommy Boy? Thinking, well, were there exactly at Tommy Boy?
Was it just you and Tom? Well? I mean exactly.
I mean we weren't exactly the most you know, It's
like we didn't have C suites or anything like that.

(53:20):
Like I said, my office was like a very sorry,
claustrophobic type of place them. So I wouldn't say, like,
oh my god, the ripple effects through the executive ranks
of Tommy Boy. It wasn't quite like that. Um. I mean, listen,
the group was reacting you know to um the you know,

(53:41):
pushing back and reacting to the Daisy age, uh imagery
that I think at that point they sort of feel
had been thrust upon them and they were trying to
shake it off, and and and and they did frankly,
you know, I mean, look at the cover is so um,
but it's an able, so you know, I don't I

(54:03):
don't remember get having any particular you know, zurious about
the whole thing. Uh day list all is dead. In fact,
I thought it was like, yeah, this is great, this
is gonna be keep a story going, and and it's
a great album. If it was if the album sucked,
who would care? But it was incredible? So did you

(54:27):
guys worried at all about them? Um? Putting Renee King's
number on the uh Ring Ring Ring Haihi, Hey, I
would call her often, keep pick up at the top
of the ring Ring ring. Um, I guess a woman
for our listeners out there. There's a woman that pass

(54:47):
uh met at the New Music Seminar name Rene King,
and uh she just called and called and called and
called and called and called and called, left messages after messages,
and they decided to leave one of her messages on
Imposter's answer machine to two four two o nine. You
know that number I'm calling In reference to the music.

(55:09):
Remember who you're talking about. Of course he does. He
called it to I did not call it. Man, My
mom would have been last I called. I called that
number often and spoke to Rene King like she kept
that number till like. I mean, the last I call
it was like four. But you do you want to

(55:34):
people to go? It was like, hello, is this Rene King? Yes?
This is me? Oh wow it is Well, let me
put you this way. I don't think that that would
have flown today. It would be like doxing someone, but
you know, stalking or harassment to put somebody's phone number.

(55:54):
And I don't even you know. That's a good point though,
because legally, I'm wondering if there was a line that
was crossed putting her phone number. I mean, obviously she
had to get her mission. I mean she'd never Retali
was happous, she welcomed it. I always wanted to know, Uh,

(56:19):
why didn't you guys really said video? I think I'm
answering my question right now, as I said, Uh, for
Milly pulled the pistol on Santa, very weird choice for
a third single. Why didn't that come with the video?
Because I mean the song was clearly like levels of
storytelling like on Slick Ricks level, but instead you guys

(56:41):
focused on the B side, which was keeping the faith.
But I mean at the time when you heard it, like,
did you guys truly feel like that could have been
a single? Um, I don't recall your honor, Okay, No,
I I seriously, I don't recall, but I can tell

(57:02):
you it sounds like the type of thing where I
would have said, I don't know, maybe you know we're
gonna get you know, well, yo, MTV raps play this.
I don't know, well this clear you know, uh, standards
practices if although I'm sure there would have been a
very artistic, interesting way to approach the whole thing. But

(57:22):
I don't even recall about what it's about. So yeah,
one thing, I don't know when did you leave, Tommy Boy.
I left in February, so you were there for like
stakes as high and I never knew like when when
your era ended in like what albums you weren't there for.
The last album that I gave a green light to

(57:47):
was ever last, ever last solo album that Dante Okay produced,
and that was the last one that I said, yep
we had and I didn't didn't happen very easily either.
But that was the last What was that? How did
you have to sell it? What made it difficult? Well? No,

(58:08):
it was because there was internal drama that was happening
at the label that involved business affairs director kind of
having a dick war with everlast attorney, and it almost
didn't happen, but thank god it did because that was
a huge you know that might have I mean, the
album I think did three millions, so put but I

(58:31):
left February February. But just in general, with each Daylight
record coming out and getting more darker and kind of
taking subtle or not so settled jabs uh at the industry,
I mean, that's that's the one thing if I could

(58:53):
change anything about dayla Um. I remember my n R
Wendy Goldstein telling me, like, Yo, no matter what y'all do,
you never do a song about how fucked up your
label is because nobody cares. Like, nobody cares about the
label fucking you over like anything but the label fucking
you over like? Did you guys feel a certain way

(59:13):
about the subtle jabs at our artistic expression? Because even
with Balloon mind State, which seems to be everyone's general
favorite Daylight record, at least when you ask the average person,
you know, when they're talking about like Patty Duke and
all that stuff, Like a lot of these songs are
specifically aimed at how we're not stars anymore and we

(59:35):
didn't make it and we used to be the ship
now like in focuses that way and whatnot, Like did
you guys just let them go off on their own
creativity or was someone there just be like, hey, guys, like,
no one's going to relate to the fact that you know,
you're not getting properly promoted. Well, okay, I mean, first

(59:55):
of all, I don't think there's any labeled person in
the world who's gonna sit back and say, and it
was great when that did really came at me whatever.
It's of course, it's like, you know, it's uncomfortable. It
can be a little mortifying. It's like, oh ship, you
know um And yes, I mean I saw the references
to Duck season on the which is actually, you know,

(01:00:20):
it's that's cool to I mean, I actually have a
really good relationship with riza Um. But the the thing
is is that the I think even worse. The worst
thing you can do is interfere, and I don't there
wasn't anyone telling them you can't say this or don't
say that, you know. I think if they needed to
work that out, however they want to work it out

(01:00:42):
and say it publicly, it's fine. And and you know
sometimes people, you know, there are people say, well, you're
airing you know, your your dirty launder. No one really
cares about this sort of drama that's going on over here.
It's sort of industry uh about what's happening in the industry.
But no, there was no I don't recall there ever

(01:01:04):
being anyone's trying to issue a corrective about what they
could or should say or how they were saying it.
So and and in fact, even if you wanted to
would probably be futile and just you know, make you
as a you know, as a label or an in
our person. Look, you know, then you're really setting yourself

(01:01:27):
up for, you know, for criticism. So now how do
you how are you guys building your staff? Like how
does Dante come to your attention? How does what other
notable Uh yeah, characters are at Tommy Boy helping the
machine run well Ross, yes, of course, and um there's

(01:01:49):
I'm glad you brought that up, because this came up
in a conversation recently, because a lot of times when
people will do interviews and they always want to talk
about the artists. Of course that's natural. But you know,
one of the things that I would say, all these
years later, and I'm very proud of, is all the
people that I had a hand in hiring or that

(01:02:11):
I did hire, and who have gone on to really
pretty amazing careers themselves. Um and Uh Dante of course
is one of them. Dante uh is is quite a
rock on tour on in his own right. And I
hired Dante uh very shortly after he left Lee or

(01:02:33):
Cohen's employ Um. I think it rather unceremonious parting of
the ways. So is that an awkward thing? Like if
you're one, are you friends with other CEOs of other labels?
And is there book and rule about poaching? You know,
they're particular employees to come and work for us? And

(01:02:54):
it carried on the stick thing like only only if
only if there's what the I guess would be called
tortious interference with a contractual uh situation, tortious interference. I'm
no lawyer, but the but but but basically, if someone's
under contract and you interfere and try and hire them
or sign them and they're under already under contract with

(01:03:18):
with the label, you are risking you know, legal action.
Yeah so, but but let me tell you Lee Or
did not have Dante under condric and uh and and
those two you know, I think we're happy to be
out of each other's way. So, um so I hired
Dante and um, you know, it's this first day in

(01:03:39):
our job, and um, you know, we'd uh Dallas was
already on the label and that was the first project
that I gave him to oversee, was the album. So
uh so he's obviously gone on to great renown and
great success. But there's not but there are others, you know,

(01:04:00):
day please tell well, you know, one guy that comes
to mind is a guy named Rod Houston who's from Philadelphia. Yeah,
and Rod started actually as Tom's assistant. And one of
the great things about when the label was really small
is that it's not like we had all these different departments,

(01:04:21):
you know, like if people started somewhere, they could very
easily sort of shipped into like, oh guess what we
need videos? Wait, we don't have someone to do videos, Rod,
You're gonna oversee videos now. And that's in fact kind
of how it happened. Rod was Tom's assistant, but Rod
was also in charge of calling the hip hop mixed shows.

(01:04:41):
And then he, uh, oh my god, I just looked.
I'm so sorry. I realized the reason I know him
is not because of this career, but it's because of
his second career, Rod Houston. Yes, yes, so so then
he and then he was, um, you know, pretty handy
with you know, technical and video stuff. So he all

(01:05:02):
of a sudden, Rods like in charge of overseeing videos
for Tommy Boy. And he's a really incredibly great smart guy.
But what you know, Rod, Uh, from time to time
he started doing voiceover work and he would uh say, hey, Mo,
do you mind if I can leave you over to
Arison wants to know if I can go, you know,

(01:05:24):
uh do a radio spot for them, and yeah, sure,
blah blah blah. Well what was starting, you know, pretty
modestly back then exploded into this wildly successful career is
one of the most uh you know, he's he's I

(01:05:44):
cannot turn on the TV or the radio or anything
without hearing Rod Houston's voice. He's that successful in the
voice field, that all the time at the office, he
always had a reverb machine with himself. Now, he always
had that voice, you know, which made him great on

(01:06:06):
the phone. You know, having a good own voice is
important if you're going to be doing radio promotion, you know,
or retail promotion, with any sort of promotion. Really, um so, uh,
he's one guy Chris Atlas started, Wow, I love the
old mags in those mixes down those Yeah. But but

(01:06:30):
his first job was I'm almost certain it was his
first job in the industry, was a Tommy boy doing
like street promotions and marketing. Fat man Scoop what job
he was doing. Scoop had been working actually, I think
at Harlem Hospital and it was through Albie Ragusa that

(01:06:55):
um I met Scoop and Alb said, oh, this guy
gon be good, and so Scoops started doing He was
also doing mixed show promotion, you know. And but then
you know, Scoop was always such a character, and um
I started putting him in the some of the ads
on the back cover of the Source magazine. You know,

(01:07:17):
he soon went on to his own brand of stardom.
Is like the ultimate hype man, doing those hype w Records,
UH radio where you the marketing person at Tommy Boy,
I was my uh well, like those jackets and everything. Yeah,
as the president of Tommy Boy, I was overseeing all

(01:07:39):
the creative of Tommy Boys. So that was A and
R the imaging, advertising, marketing, promotion, you know, and when
we got into doing and all the different tatchkas and
merchandizing materials that we made, like we had all the lanyards,
get all of these. Albie Ragusa, who's another person who

(01:08:03):
started out doing rap promotions and uh segued into doing
A and R UM was a really had really great style.
He was very connected with UM sort of the emerging
downtown hip hop skateboard UK New York access of style.

(01:08:27):
He knew the people at Union, he knew James Lavell,
he knew Shaun Stacey, he knew all these cats when
they were just coming up and UM. So I always
looked to Albie as you know, as a great sort
of uh style and fashion. I and he was very

(01:08:47):
involved when we did a line of clothing and it
was you know, when we did the car heart jacket,
which became a very iconic piece. UM. It was Albie's
connection to Shawn Stussy That resulted in that fantastic logo
on the front. Uh front breast write breast pocket. I

(01:09:08):
think I forget whish pocket, but you know it was
it was more official Tommy boy. I always thought those
were like bootlegs. So that was commissioned through you guys. Oh,
absolutely no, No, we produced those things, and uh, you know,
the car Heart jacket became sort of got its status
because we you know, the thing back then was to
really um you know, we had a sort of a

(01:09:31):
list of people that we would see lace when lacing
was a thing, you know, taste makers, artists and things
like that. So I think it was that car Heart
jacket in particular was like one of those things that
people like, oh ship, you know, um, either I have
it or I wish I had it, and uh you

(01:09:54):
know so uh and it was sort of the beginning
of when Label started to branch out into doing um,
you know, clothing and things like that. Three thousands to
five thousand dollars on auction, I'm just saying last time
it was one available. Yeah, that was it was my jacket.
There's a hip hop hip hop shop and Philly called

(01:10:17):
the Layup that my current Uh god, I think with
Keith almost thirty years now. My production manager used to
run it and he had a Tommy boy jacket and
uh I remember like saving up for three weeks to
buy that thing because I wanted to lead people under
the impression that Terek and I had signed to record

(01:10:41):
everywhere everywhere. Thank you for sharing that. Well, speaking speaking
of your staff, there's one thing I didn't ask. Were
there any close but no cigar moments in terms of
almost having an artist that you uh could have but
lost like at the last eleventh hour. Oh wow, Well listen,

(01:11:05):
I'll tell you that there are always quite you know
a question I always got, Well, how come you all
didn't signed Tupac. That's a big one because Digital Underground
I forgot. Oh yeah, uh why Tupac? Yeah, you know
Digital Underground of course was had done very well and

(01:11:28):
Tommy Boyen I was close with Shock uh and and
also with UM their manager Atron Adrian Gregory, and I
knew Tupac from you know, when he started when he
was a dancer with Digital and he UM. You know,
he's a very charismatic. Uh, he's kind of flirty, very

(01:11:49):
very much more so like you know, clown dropping trout
on stage. You know, it wasn't necessarily the Tupac that
people came to know. Uh, you know just a few
years later, Um, Bishop, Yes, well that that role Bishop
and Juice. You know, I've always said that was the
big turning point for Tupac because when Tupac Um, when

(01:12:12):
the first single came out trapped, it was Interscope and uh,
that was not you know, that record took some time
to break. A guy named Steve Burman over at Interscope.
You know, this is they were trying to really make
a big push into that marketplace. And the Steve Burman
that's in dard da video, Yeah, is that actual Steve

(01:12:35):
Burman's in the video? Problem is that a guy portraying
Steve Burman. Well, Steve Burman has a very specific look,
uh to him. I haven't seen the video. I think
when like the guys like talking to Easy, the Easy
character that what's his name? The comedian just passed away?
He just passed away? Right? Yeah, Yeah, I think that

(01:12:56):
Steve Burman in that video and he I know he's
in an uh in an eminem record that as his
step of his name in it. Yeah. Yeah, he's always
on the Violet Browns on that track the m But
the thing is is that the role of Bishop I
think was you know listen, Uh, Pap was you know,
he was really best friends with Trash. Him and Trautch

(01:13:19):
were live running buddies here in New York. Uh. The
guy um Neil Mritz I think was the name of
the producer of that film. I remember, you know, he
you know, told me it won't but you and I think,
you know Tupac. This was a huge turning point for
Tupac when he had that persona of that dark, brooding,

(01:13:43):
you know character that was very different really from what
people had seen of him. I think it was something
that brought out you know that already it extended into
you know, his his career as a as a as
a as a rapper. So but but he was but

(01:14:03):
he was always I think he always was, you know,
that complex guy. He just what But you didn't see
that necessarily in his role with Digital Underground. But the
long story short is that actually it's a short story.
Long is that the Atrian had given me, uh the

(01:14:24):
demo type for Trapped, and um we passed on it.
I still I held onto the cassette and it's now
in the Tupac exhibition in Los Angeles, if you want
to go check it out. I'm actually going to see
that tomorrow. Well maybe you know, but you said earlier.
I mean you said earlier. Things happened for a reason.

(01:14:45):
And there's there's artists that I just think, you know,
I think that Steve Berman and Interscope had the time,
the muscle and the desire to really break Tupac and
and it was the right fit and it was and
it worked. Um there are artists that, for one reason
or another, you know, it just didn't come to pass. Um.

(01:15:08):
You know, I have all the um a lot of
the demo tapes of um. Riza asked, yeah, like Rizz
his first Prince Rakie deal, how did yeah? And it
was sort of again, it was serving that interstitial period
when he was metamorphosizing from Prince Rakin into Rizza. Did

(01:15:28):
you like the way that was portrayed on the the
Wu Tang saga? You know, people have people have sent me, uh,
I have texted me pictures of the lady who plays me,
and I'm like, oh my god, it's hilarious. So yeah,

(01:15:49):
this song was inescapable. I wasn't a big fan of it,
but you know we couldn't escape it. Gangsters Paradise or
just how you guys found Polio. Yeah, was part of
the part of the WT circle. Yeah, he was. He
was on the Massive album and again he was in
the video. Kholio was fantastic. He was also you know,

(01:16:11):
he had some troubles too, but he was pretty. He
was great to work with and he was a character
and and those were great records. Um. You know, Gangster's
Paradise was also a track that benefited from a significant
film placement. And you know, it kind of surprised me
that there hadn't really been a record up until that

(01:16:34):
point that had used pastime Paradise as effectively. Is that
you know, that's like one of those records Like today
you could you still hear Gangster's Paradise all the time?
Yesterday was you know, we had St. Patrick's Day here recently,
jump around. You know that's an anthem. You know, there's

(01:16:57):
certain O p P is an anthem. We were blood
Humpty dance is an anthem. We were blessed to have
lace first, you know, we were blessed to have some records,
me and myself and I you know, anthems, you know,
and that is yeah something that supermodel is an anthem,

(01:17:19):
you know. You know, I just think it's almost like
I think Coulio he's gangster adjacent, like he's almost he
feeled the lame that I think Ludicrous wound up doing
in the arts, Like looks the role, but it's kind
of gangster a. Jason had like big pop hits. Yeah, yeah,
I mean the same thing as Naughty, Like yeah, look

(01:17:41):
the role and somehow I mean, but did you guys
imagine that he would be as big as he was
because you guys had like at least four to five
major hits on him with Coolio Yeah yeah, you know, man,
you never know. You just never know. Because I don't
think we didn't hear Gangster's Paradise. It hadn't been recorded

(01:18:05):
when we put out the first track, you know. So
but even with like Fantastic Voys and the other there's
remember yeah, yeah, a couple joints, remember, but there's two
records that really mean he too. But I want to

(01:18:26):
say to at least yeah y'all, so y'all also signed
l V. You'll put out here, yep. I don't I
am l V. Yeah, but we didn't have any hits
with LVI. He was a cool song, but yeah, I

(01:18:46):
didn't even get my teeth out you when you like,
how did she come to the label and how? Because
I know that had to been specific marketing on on
your end at least, like what was your idea, like
what did you see her that you accentuated or I've
always said this that there was three people that I

(01:19:09):
will always credit for um Latifa coming through Tommy Boy,
and it was would have been Dante, Dante, Ross King
and fab five Freddie and and they all played very
critical roles in her early career as well. Um but
they were all they all kind of were talking to

(01:19:30):
me about her. And and she came to the office
the first time she came to the office, and Dana
was very young. She was an all the you know
it's people forget, you know, like I mean she was
like eighteen, I think, you know, and she again this
surround the way jersey girl. And she came to your
office and she just had on like jeans and the sweatshirt,

(01:19:55):
no makeup. She had her hair done and you know
when gals were wearing like they're so like curl down
the top and short on the side type of look
and everything. And she just was so unassuming, um and
but clearly she was very intelligent. She um was had

(01:20:19):
a great bearing in presence and and she had enormous charisma.
She had this thing that it doesn't matter if she's
got you know, full hair and makeup and a great
outfit on or something. She just was like, I had
this really unbelievable presence for young eighteen year old woman

(01:20:41):
who hadn't really been you know, I hadn't been off
the turnip truck yet. You know, she's uh, she'd worked
at Burger King and you know, had had her own
little group in high school. Uh you know MC group
in high school. And but she was just calm, cool, collected,

(01:21:02):
and she's always had this quality that UM I think
has served her incredibly well over many years. And she
she really could walk into any room, she could go
on to any stage, she could basically, you know, MC,
any event, and she's got that gift. I saw her

(01:21:25):
in the very early days at this place called Hotel
Amazon doing one of her very early shows. And uh,
you know how I mean. The Hotel Amazon was down
in Lower East Side and one of these places that
I guess they just were doing hip hop nights on
the weekend, and it was kind of it was funky.

(01:21:47):
It wasn't like some you know, playing at the Beacon
or some other place where they're all set up for
sound and lights. This place was not that at all.
It's the opposite. And the sound went out and you
know how like a lot of times, you know, if
it's the guy, a lot of these guys funk the
sound good tossed the mic on the floor and stomp

(01:22:08):
off the stage. Well angry. She didn't even flinch. She
just like kept rocking and even though the sound was
off and the crowd just nobody missed a beat and
they were just you know, and and that is her.
That is her. She just doesn't get flustered that way.

(01:22:28):
And she has she's also she is so musical. I mean,
she's a singer, you know, she she's incredible as an MC.
You know, she's got this beautiful flow and presence on
the mic. But she's a great singer. And her mother,
it was her late mother's was a tremendous influence on her.
And and to this day we're very you know, I'm

(01:22:52):
still close with Dana and I had I was able
to work with her after I had left Tommy Boy
and she had gone, you know, into her incredible career
as an actress and doing all other sorts of things.
But um actually A and R two albums of her,
her her jazz albums. She was incredible to work with.

(01:23:16):
I loved working with Dana and and and King. I think,
you know, uh, he's another guy that I think probably
doesn't necessarily get as much credit and hero. Yeah, he's
most definitely he's one of my book of these people. Yeah,
I mean, because it was that that whole little Basement

(01:23:37):
crew and Mark's house that you know, the whole sort
of flavor unit. Possey emerged out of that and it
was and Mark was the you know it was that
was he was the center of all that. If you
watch the Yo MTV Raps interview where Freddie goes out
to the basement to their basement, Yes that tape, I

(01:24:00):
don't know, but I got my VHS cassette. Yeah. And
you know, she didn't start as Queen Latifa. She started
as Latifa and then she became Queen Latifa. And that's
a situation where you know, like you know, the press,
you can really tell sometimes when the press immediately like
it's like, oh yeah, I get that. I can really

(01:24:22):
get my head around that. And that was Latifa, you know,
because there was a fable around that, Like I always
heard that the queen came from her being involved, not
being involved, by her relationship with like Popa Centers or
something like that. But that could have been urban legend.
I never heard her say that. I mean, I know
that the word Latifa means delicate and sensitive. I'm not
sure exactly when and who or if she just bestowed

(01:24:46):
the queen crown upon herself, which I think it's great,
but she's you know. One thing about her too, is
that you find that to this day, like women who
are uh we're young and in their teens when she
was first coming up, we're hugely influenced by Latifa. I
always hear from women like saying, yeah, oh man, when

(01:25:07):
I was in high school and ladies first came out
or unity you know, or what you know, whatever it
might have been, she had an enormous influence on a
generation of women. And she's all. And there's also I
say about Latifa because she's one of those people like
you say, you know, I don't like rap. But I

(01:25:28):
like that Queen Latifa. That's funny, right, Like you know,
you're great an gert out in Idaho. I love Queen Latifa. Like. So,
there's one more artists on your label that sort of
reach icon status. Um that was on the label. Can
you talk about how RuPaul came to the label? Oh yes, please, yeah,

(01:25:50):
thank you for asking about RuPaul. The dance music editor
over a Billboard named Bill Coleman Bill, Yes, and yeah,
real sweetheart, he's a great DJ, is still doing his
thing now. And he actually got in touch with me.
He might. I think this is even maybe before email.

(01:26:12):
You know, you called me and said, you know, hey, uh,
these guys Randy and Fenton have this artist named RuPaul,
and there's this track. I thought maybe you'd want to
hear it. I thought maybe you you'd be good for this,
So I said, yes, send it over. And and I
already actually knew who RuPaul was because that whole sort

(01:26:32):
of downtown stock lady bunny scene that was happening already. Um,
the downtowns are a drag scene, and so I knew
who was and so we got the I got the tape.
I listened to it. It's like again, it's one of
those things where you listen to you say, oh, this
is great, this is a great pop record, and oh

(01:26:57):
it was. It was. It was Supermodel to work. It
works exactly, and it was again it sort of fell
into that category of it's either going to be a
huge hit or a huge failure, and those I think
are always the best decisions to be confronted with. Um,
you know. And so there's the sound of Scene and

(01:27:19):
C Music Factory, where like House was now entering the
mainstream and it wasn't underground anymore. But at the time,
did you think that RuPaul was just going to be
like a one off kind of like at least if
I'm looking at K seven, I'm thinking come Baby, Coming
whatever the song was like, okay, but did you at

(01:27:39):
all see the or think that RuPaul had the potential
to be the icon that I think, Well, no, I'd
be lying through my teeth if I said, oh, yeah,
I saw this, you know, you know, No, I mean
I thought we got an early and Supermodel is going

(01:28:01):
to be a big hit, because that video that his
managers directed and put together was astounding. That and and
also the other thing that I was very involved with
was placing that record in uh some key fashion week shows.

(01:28:21):
UM specifically toddled M and Isaac ms Rahey because this
is back when fashion Week was like a cool thing
and uh, you know on all the shows that were
going on and so supermodel and it was also really
the era of supermodels, So Naomi and Lynda and you
know Christie and all these people, you know, all that

(01:28:43):
being name checked in the record and that scene being
really hot and the drag scenes are coming up. But
you had Rue Paul, who's like basketball tall, and you know,
just no one could walk past Ruga. Oh my god.
You know, this towering goddess Rule had had and had

(01:29:05):
tremendous ambition. And you know, all of all the artists
that I've ever worked with, Ru I think had to
work the hardest because if you want to say, well
we're gonna do a day of in stores or oh
we're gonna have you do pressed or go to an event,
well he has to spend hours getting ready. You tell
that to any rappers like really thing. So you know,

(01:29:28):
so Ru had to really uh you know, it was
a big undertaking to do all that stuff, and UM
and and MTV uh really help break that record. Tune
as a top forty dance record, and we did get
feedback from I should say it was no one really
would say it to my face, but I knew that

(01:29:49):
there was disgruntlement with a few artists about rubying on
Tommy BOYD. There was Oh yeah, I know the rappers
wouldn't happen. It is what's going on here? What are
we doing? What you're doing the label? Yeah? Yeah, not
comfortable in certain cases. Um, but yeah, so we really

(01:30:09):
broke a lot of barriers, and a lot of people
did say, you know, I don't think any labal but
Tommy Boy could have done that with ru Paul, So
I thought that was always high praise. How do you
generally feel about music now? Are you still is the
seventeen year old inside you still excited about anything musical?

(01:30:31):
Or is everything in your rear view mirror now? Oh man,
this is I'm so happy to ask that question, because, um,
when I left Tommy Boy and I always sort of
joked that I left the music industry to learn more
about music. I left I was at a very personally,

(01:30:52):
I was at a low point, and the industry was
changing a lot. I was pretty bummed out and depressed
quite frankly, and I uh start working part time at
a record store after I left Tommy Boy, place called
Footlights down On. It was on Twelfth Street. It's a

(01:31:12):
place that specialized in soundtracks and jazz and vocals and
things like that. So I would be working there part time,
and then I started, UM. I got on the staff
at wfmu UM, which is a free form radio station
in Jersey City of some renown, and start doing a

(01:31:33):
weekly show there. For over fifteen years, I'm still a
staff member there and still do radio shows. And there's
nothing I love more than listening to new music and
old music. I listened to music all the time. I'm
constantly have Spotify open and have a million playlists. You know,
I've nicked quite a few things off of UH shows

(01:31:54):
that you've done when you were doing those regular shows
on Instagram. I love the playlist that you did for
Greg take Um. Yeah, it was really great, you know.
So I'm into all sorts of music, all sorts of
music from all different eras. I love it more than ever.
And yeah, I love checking out new new stuff. I

(01:32:16):
love reissues, and you know, I love going down the
rabbit hole. So yeah, totally yeah. Where do you find music?
Where do you find music? Good question. I was always
curious to find out what your means of discovery are.
My favorite my favorite game is playing. You know, you

(01:32:37):
play a song on on your streaming weapon of choice,
and you know you always look at the bottom down
theythm right and then look through that artist and then
looking their artists and looking their artists and okay, um,
not only that, I would say that, you know, as
a fan of these these current shows that are on HBO,

(01:32:59):
you know your euphorias, your insecures and whatnot. Like those
they go super deep and artists I might not have
heard before. And then I'm fans and there's or just
in general, I'm not I'm not afraid or ashamed of
Shazam anything. So I'll be in the supermarket, I'll be
in a club and if y your something cool, I'm samming,

(01:33:22):
ill fold down. I fall down a rabbit hole. Like
I don't agree that. You know, most people say like,
well music is dead now, it's just so much more
of it. You just got to know where to look.
I think what's dead is like the tastemaker, like you know,
to have this is kind of why I wish like
I really had Okay player up and running in a
way that was running back in USand where I could

(01:33:46):
always guarantee twelve people would put me on the song.
But yeah, it's it's still there. But Monica, I thank
you for doing this for us. Um you know one
of the perils of doing thatternoon is your lunch break
is over and you gotta go back to your day
job work. We go to work. Thank you so much

(01:34:07):
Monica for doing this this Sugar, Stephen and Bill and
Fante and Layah and we will see Mexico around on course.
Love Supri Thank you. Whatch Love Supreme is a production
of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

(01:34:34):
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.