Ne-Yo

Ne-Yo is one of the most accomplished songwriters of the last 20 years. He tells Questlove Supreme about his creative process, working with Beyoncé, and recalls a pivotal moment on Amateur Night At The Apollo.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I'm your hostess,
love you. It's hot summer. It's hot, man, I'm talking
to say I know that Fronte and and why you're

(00:23):
not in New York City right now? Yeah, it's hot everywhere. Yeah,
I just love DC. It's hot. I'm in l A.
It's hot. It's just it's just wet, hot, hot hot.
See someone hiatus right now. So you know, if I'm
at work, then it's always sixty seven degrees, so I
always have a sweater on. But this is one of

(00:43):
the rare times which I'm not under freezing conditions. Sugar
Seed are you? Are you an uber driver right now?
Sugar Steve, what are you doing? I'm in a limousine
heading to power lunch. Uh. And I was telling Neo
and like about this earlier before the interview started. I

(01:07):
can't expose. It's a very big thing, very big thing happening.
And so you're basically going to see Elvis Scott Stello right.
Oh shit, it's bigger than that. When whenever he gets
a secret, if it's always Elvis Scott Stello I met
I met one of your comrades on the play this morning.

(01:27):
He kept waking me up out of my sleep. Who
was that? Jeffrey Miller is a great, great trombone player.
He's on he's uh on one of our records on
Jami Recording stock com. Check it out. Yeah. He he
woke me up twice, wants to tell me that he
records to you. Uh. The second time he woke me
up out of my sleep to share a joke with
me about carrying his uh, his plunger, his toiletble plungers

(01:50):
that he uses for a sex for his uh trump bones.
You know you could have you could have bumped into
worse friends of mine. Anyway, y'all we're here today. I
will say that uh, our guests probably doesn't need I

(02:11):
won't say I will say that he doesn't need an introduction.
But he's one of my favorite bridge writers. Bridges Yo,
you know Rare Bridges Undefeated. Our guest is indeed Um.
He's a three time Grammy Award winning singer, songwriter, producer actor.

(02:33):
Um collaborated with the best of them, from Jigga to
Beyonce to Pitbull to Rihanna to Kanye The fabulous. I
mean the list goes on and on and on and
on and on and on and north uh. He's released
seventh albums and his eighth um, which is entitled Self Explanatory,
will be out by this recording in July. I believe

(02:55):
the data platforms Yes July for teen eight track as well.
Here three platinum albums. Prolific songwriter and producer and entertainer. Yo,
ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for the one
and only the one neo. What's up? Brother? How you doing?
That was a hell of an introduction. I needed done

(03:17):
like that from now on. Hey man, every every hero
needs is H's theme music and his own fanfare. I
love it. I love greeting brother. So for our listeners
who can't see you right now, yes, you're in Yeah
a house that looks like it's nothing but art deco lights,
like time at home. Currently. This this is my recording

(03:42):
studio that I'm currently And I tell people a lot
of time that they were like, so what do you
do with your spare time? What do you do when
you're not doing music? I'm like, uh, music, that's that's
that's pretty much. I do this because I love it.
Man and and and with that being said, I couldn't
have a house without a studio and it had to happen,
So I built my own. I love it. Yeah, I

(04:05):
was about to say, fante you you got your your
blue light on as well. I feel like I had
to keep the vibe going. Got to you. Where where
are you from? Where were you born? Was born in Camden, Arkansas? Yes,
deep deep deep South. Don't feel bad if you don't
know where Campden is. No one knows where camp people

(04:26):
and people from Arkansas don't know where camp I always
thought it was vague. The Nevada, That's what I was confused.
Why Why did the majority of my growing up in Vegas?
I went to high school in Vegas, whole nine, like
all of that happened to Vegas. My dad was a
truck driver. Oh that's a cool that's a cool job.
You wrote in the back of the camp. He had
one of those calves with the beds in the back
and everything. Like the reason he wasn't never because you

(04:47):
driving trucks and doing using Yeah. Yeah. Do you have
any siblings your parents? Are they musically inclined? Uh? My,
everybody in my family does something in regards you music
did playing an instrument or singing or rapping or whatever
what happened. Everybody does something like my mom used to sing,
my dad plays BASSI sings. My sister sings ridiculously. She's

(05:11):
she's a she's an alien. Well you have to have
to two sisters and a brother. One one sister sister
and one one half sister on a half brother. You know,
Papa was a bit of a rolling stone, regis. We
passed no judgments. It is what it is. But um,
but yeah, yeah, closest, closest to my my main I
don't know if I called my main sister, how did

(05:33):
that work? The sister that I share a mother and
father with that that system, we're the we're the we're
the closest you know, nor too, So you know, I
go no disrespect to my other system, my other brother.
You know, they just they moved around and did their
own thing, and it is what it is. But um,
but yeah, I grew up in Las Vegas under a

(05:56):
very very musically inclined mother. She did everything, the music, everything,
the thing you can think of being cleaning up the
house to watching TV with the stereo playing type type situation.
So Yeah, it was just always there, just always there.
What was your first musical memory? First musical memory sitting
in the sitting in the living room in front of

(06:16):
the stereo, crying and not understanding why as I was
listening to Billy Ocean's Sudden that baby that is an
eighties baby right there. I know, Steve, he is hitting
your sit in your groove right now. That's no meaning

(06:38):
to me, like suddenly, no wife has new meaning. That's
what I meant. That's what I said. He wasn't suicidal,
his life has new meaning. Always suck it up a mirror,
you right, I have to suck it up. Wow. No, No,
that that's actually dope to hear it, because oftentimes I

(07:00):
think people were rather ashamed that. I think that's the
purpose of music is to either document a time period,
like music to me is always like a musical polary,
because it helps me remember what year it was, or
what time it was, or what happened at a party,
like oh yeah, Like whenever I hear you know ironic
by Lance Marsett, I'm forever gonna remember, like, oh, my

(07:23):
first car accident. You know, I'm just giving example, but
I'm just saying that music does that what what do
you think it was about that song that touched you? Um,
you know what, To be completely honest with you, man,
And I might have been maybe maybe five or six
or something somewhere in there when this happened, but even
now as a forty two year old man, it's it's

(07:44):
something about some of the melodies that just gets you. Bro.
It's just I think it was just I think that
was the first time I realized the power of melody.
You know what I'm saying that that hitting a certain
chord on a guitar or a certain note on a
piano could like like put goose bumps on your arm
type thing, you know what I mean? Like I I
didn't in mind you at the time, I didn't know

(08:04):
that's what it was. But but thinking back now, it's
like that's that had to be what it was because
I couldn't have understood what he was talking about him
from five, I don't know what I'm talking about, but
the music, the way the melodies was hitting me, I
think that's what it was. Yeah, And I have to
ask in light of what what I what I loving
lead up as the versus Comedy hour, You're going there,

(08:30):
I didn't know it. But I'm not mad. I'm not.
I'm not. I'm not. I'm not about gotcha journalism, not
about putting the next man down? Are you rather perplexed?
And and the thing is, I don't believe that music
is dead. I just believe that the particular music I like,
I have to search, like very far and wide for it,

(08:52):
like I have to search for it. But for you,
are you kind of perplexed that what what passes for
music now? The fact that that type of melody might
not necessarily be exposed to a mainstream audience as it
once was. Mm hmm uh that that That's a beautiful question.

(09:12):
And I have to say I definitely share in and
where you are with that, you know what I mean? That?
Mind you, I've I've I've put myself in a place
where if I'm gonna be a part of this industry,
I have to find a way to like a little
bit of everything, you know, maybe not love it. I
probably I wouldn't turn around in my car, but if

(09:33):
it's on, I'm not gonna sit here and bad mouthed
or or sitting here and not have a good time
because they're not playing the kind of music that I
want to hear quote unquote Do you still listen to
the radio? Not as often as I once did? Uh No,
not really. Normally, I'll go on you know, uh one
of the streaming streaming joints or whatever and pull up
what it is I'm looking for. That's that's that's easier

(09:54):
for me than than sitting and trying to tolerate some
of the things that because I mean, I'm I'm I'm
from that place too, where I'm from the place where
you know it was it was the intricacy of that
that three part harmony, like that place and and and
that's just like you said, you said it in my
intro bridges, Like nobody writes bridges anymore. It's like people

(10:16):
like people ain't got time for it to be good
no more? Like which man? Like what are we all
rushing towards? Thongs are like a minute long? Now? Like
where are y'all going so fast? You know what I mean? Yeah?
My son, my son, he has I don't know if
you're owner he has. An artist he listens to is
his girl Pink Panthers. I don't know if you're upon her.

(10:37):
She put out an album. I think it was last
year ten songs eighteen that's like fantastic volume warning the
whole album up. But he is my sixteen, my youngest son.
But yeah, that's that's kind of where the youngest, that's
what it is. I'm really I'm really curious as to

(10:57):
why that is, like like because even even when I
was even when I was sixteen, like it was about
it was about the story of it, you know what
I mean, Like like I don't know, maybe maybe I
was a different little six year old, but like, uh,
what's what's the joint? What's the joint? The song is
ten minutes long. Luther Van Drugs Long Ago as a Superstar.

(11:21):
That's a ten minute song and it feels like two
minutes because you just enjoy that ship so much that
it passes quickly. But that song is ten minutes long
and you wouldn't even don't even know it, but it's
it's about the beginning, middle, and end of a story.
I used to listen to music for that, yet no more. Yeah, now, bro,
I think we got like it's the tail wagon the
dog like in that you know, people are making music

(11:44):
specifically for streaming services, and so they know a one
minute or one and a half minute song will naturally
be streamed more in five minutes than a five minute
song would be once you know what I mean From
a business and commerce standpoint, that's that's that's smartest. Hell music,
music art is not supposed to be inspired by commerce,
at least not in my personal opinion. That's just supposed

(12:05):
to come from the heart somewhere. And if it's coming
from the heart, it might take a little longer than
a minute to get my point of cross. And but
that means that my song is played on the radio.
Now damn all right, Well here we are. I learned
that lesson with I think really with the Old Town Road.
I spun it at a party once and thought, you know, okay,
I'll put it in one like back when it was

(12:26):
red hot. I would that would be my first record,
my stalling record until I find out what I really
want to play. And I looked at the thing and
it was like two minutes and twenty seven seconds, and really,
whoa like I had to play it twice. I meant,
the Billy Ray Cyrus thing stretches it a little bit

(12:47):
to like seventeen seconds, but yeah, man, it's it's It's
also maybe that this generation doesn't need uh a lot
of time to express itself. I won't say that doesn't
have much to say. They do have the language, they
have the words. It's like mean culture, yeah, statement, next statement.

(13:12):
But they also have new words that we didn't have before.
Where we used to be taking forever to say a
gas like trigger you used to have to think them
on that ship didn't exist. There's a whole sentence about
what that ship really was like, like the lingo is
gonna change with the with the times, as you know,
as as long as young people, it's always gonna be lingo.
I ain't mad at that far. Yes, I just wish
that I wish that everybody would just slow the hell down.

(13:35):
I feel like, you know what I feel like why
music is suffering is because nobody's taking the time to
keep it good. No more like everybody is, as you said,
everybody trying to get their stream of numbers up. And
it's like, listen, we'll worry about quality later. Right now,
it's just let's just get it out there. We can
get these numbers up. That sucks. I just I just
hate that we in this place now. Man. Really, it's
not all young people. That's not everybody understand, because there

(13:59):
is a section of young people that are appreciating the
nineties right now that are discovering neo soul and all
of that and making it new againstide mean, you know, listen,
just get the baby some love. There's always exceptions, but
you know, the masses. The mass situation right now is,
you know, a song needs to be a minute long
because I got something to do. What do you have
to do? What you ain't got trying to listen to

(14:21):
some good music. I don't get it. I don't get
I used to tell people on the radio, listen, if
you want to find good music, it's not going to
be the ship that easily comes to You're gonna have
to go find it. And I'm on the radio telling
you that the good ship is that what you're easy
on the radio? Okay, we had we we we We're
repeating some things, but I'm sorry, go back. I feel
like I feel like this show is now turning into

(14:42):
the corner of do the right thing. There's there's one
other element is that I feel like might play a
very very strong factor. Okay, Now, I I am not
anywhere near good enough to say that I am a
piano player or a guitar player or a drum player
good enough to tap around and find what I need. Right,

(15:03):
But I recall a time where music was kind of
like a really really exclusive club. You had to know
what you were doing, you had to be good at
you had to be good at what you was doing.
Like now, anybody can do it. Anybody can do it.
It's it's it's the door is the it's the y
m c A. Come on in, y'all. That's that's where.

(15:24):
That's where we're at now. So of course, if you
got just anybody doing whatever, of course things are gonna suffer.
That the quality is gonna suffer. There was a point
in time where the quality was up because the cats
that was doing it quality. Taking nothing from anybody today,
I'm not saying the names. I'm not doing that for
my bashing. I'm just saying that now I mean to

(15:46):
take something to take something like Djane. You remember when
you had to like learn timing and like like figure
out how to mix records. And now you push your
button and you got and you're done. You're done. You
push your button. Yeah, yeah, I think those tools are
just gonna have to push people to like be creative
in a different way, because I mean even though like
even with DJ, and it's like, if you have the records,

(16:09):
you can give me a mirrors hard drive right now,
and I wouldn't know what to do with it, you
know what I'm saying, Like, you still have to know
how to play the records. You know, there's just a
still skills, a skill set that's involved. But with now,
with technology, in many ways good and bad, it's leveled
the playing field so that the barrier of entry is
pretty much non existent. Well, no, it's the same thing

(16:30):
with with like bro with with with auto tune for example, Yeah,
you gotta know what you're doing with auto tune to
make it do what it do right, you're gonna be out,
you know, and and and and so and so it's
the same thing with DJ. I understand that there's there's
a technique to it, but you can't deny that back day,
before the buttons came, you had to be a little
bit better and what you're doing, you know what I'm saying.

(16:53):
You had to be good. You had to be that
dude a little bit like and and the same thing
came to playing instruments, The same thing came with singing.
You know what I'm saying. That's that's why we're kind
of seeing what we're seeing right now, is it's not
the craft itself. I don't feel like it's as respected
as it once was. Like nobody's blood, sweat and tears
to get good at this no more. You know that
means the bottom is gonna fall out, right, y'all know

(17:14):
that right bottom fell out, or God willing, somebody comes
along and saves us. Do you remember the first album
that you purchased with your own money? The first album
I purchased with my own money? Uh, surprisingly was not

(17:36):
an R and B album. It was the far Sides.
Wild was the wild Ride? It was all right, yes,
the first one, huge huge far side fan. Yeah, yeah,
easily something like that. You know, it's weird. Uh that

(17:56):
album was a hard sell for me and the very
deep getting. I didn't like Your Mama. It was cool.
But was it the remix that turned you around? Or
was it just know when I heard for Better for Worse? Yeah, damn,
all right, all right, when I heard your Mama, I

(18:17):
just started corny and I ignored them and well, yeah,
you know, like when Richard Nichols and A J. Shine
were producers. A J. Shin was like Philadelphia's stretching Barbato
and he had a copy of the album and I
looked at the album cover and it was just the
craziest thing I've ever seen, which is really weird because

(18:37):
when he put for Better for Worse the one, I
feel like the album cover, that's the that's the soundtrack
to the album cover Worse. But but when I heard
those Fender Rhods, like that just totally I don't know,
it's it's just it's just open the whole portal. Literally,

(18:57):
after I heard for Better for Worse, I told Rich like,
we need to keypboard player and he was like, I
know this like this guy living in my house named
Scott Storch. And that's how Scott came into the group. Wait,
speaking of which, I'm just realizing I didn't realize that
you were the third writer of Let Me Love You.
I've always thought that was just Scott and Cam. Yeah,

(19:19):
shout out to my man, Cam. No, that was me. Yes,
I was absolutely there for that. Oh man, man, I've
known Cam like I've known Cam since I k known
Scott since they were like Yeah, Hi, I thought Cam
wroke those lyrics. Yo. I was like, no, no, no, no.
We definitely we definitely went back and forth on that.
That was. That was my first time I ever worked

(19:39):
with cam and it was I just remember because I
remember being such an easy situation because I worked with
other writers since then, and it's egos getting away and
you know, well I will route this much, you know,
and all of that stuff gets in a way. That
was not the case when this song came to be.
I feel like that might be why the song this
so well, because it was just such a uh it

(20:00):
was it was like it was just love. The whole
situation was just loved. Nobody was was tripping off of
who got what percentage, nobody was was trying to do
more than they like. It was just a love situation,
you know what I'm saying. Shout out to them, man, man,
Shout out to camp, Shout out to Scots Storch. That's
to a large degree, that's where my career started because

(20:21):
that was the song that that finally got me the attention,
you know what I'm saying. For a long time, I
was I was the little negative wrote the Mario song
that was that was my name. You talked about the
process of you discovering your voice. So my sister was
born with with just she she came out to womb High,
see like just in there easy. It takes her, takes nothing.

(20:46):
I had worked for mine a little bit. You know. Um,
I knew I could, I could hold the note. I
wasn't tone deaf, but I wasn't. I wasn't I wasn't
my sister, you know what I mean. And and in
our house, you know, the standard became my sister so
and so you know, I I felt, if you're not
just below that. So it took a little minute for
me to just really really get comfortable with my voice. Um,

(21:08):
a lot of Michael Jackson, a lot of Stevie Wonder
you know what I'm saying. Mom's actually put me onto
to both of these gentlemen. Uh, and it helped me
get more more comfortable with just how my voice sounded.
I used to really not like the sound of my
voice because for when I couldn't do what my sister
could do technically, she had the ad libs and all
of that stuff right. And then my mom was like

(21:29):
my hero, and she used to listen to a lot
of like you know, husky voiced singers, the O J's
and and your teddy peas and you take them off
that and I didn't have that, you know what I mean.
So so I didn't like. I didn't really like singing
at first. And then she introduced me to UH To,
to Michael Jackson's Off the Wall, Not Off the Wall.

(21:51):
She introduced me to uh songs in the kid like
she introduced me to to what they just how they
were doing, what they were doing with their voices, and
they helped me become more comfortable with my own because
it was a similar timber. They're kind of that nasally
high thing, you know what I mean, And and just
help me get more comfortable with it, but not comfortable
enough to sing four people. It was at the height

(22:12):
of what I was doing. I'm in the tenth grade.
And if ever um upset about something, mad at something,
whatever the case, maybe I got a little red notebok
gonna my bed, I pull it joint out, I'll write
a quick song, sing it to myself. I don't know,
pick up back under the bed and gone by my
business like like my friends didn't know. For a long
long time, I did because it wasn't fun him. It

(22:32):
was it was for me. It was therapy for me,
you know what I mean. So I went to a
performing arts high school for for visual designers, a drawing
paint and whatnot, and um, every year this high school,
Las Vegas Academy for Theater, Performing and Visual Arts, every
year they would do something called pop Concert. And this
was primarily for the dancers and and the choir majors
and and you know, the the techie guys that do

(22:52):
the lights and all of that. It's like a like
a like a super glorified talent show. Think you know,
they got smoke machines and stays the biggest thing going
on it. Yeah. Yeah, So of course this is a
major deal to the whole school. Everybody except the art majors.
We were kind of left out of that. They adn't
really there were really nothing for us to do. You

(23:13):
may get backs up now we find we got lights
on it, all right. Cool. So we were kind of
like the grassy nold kids like they wouldn't when nobody
studding us because the whole the rest of the school
is on pop concert, pop concoles, popcorncers. The kids crying
in the cafeteria over choreography. You know, it was fucking
six like so it sounds like so this particularly year,

(23:37):
me and me and the Grassy Nold kids, we decided,
you know what, we're gonna do something to just to
just kind of take the piss out of this whole situation, right,
So we pulled strokes. Of course, I pulled a short
strong that the plan was to somehow get into the
talent show. Because you had audition to get into the
talent show, so that was a hard part get into
the talent show. And then once you got on stage,

(23:57):
turn around, mooning the crowd, runoff like that was. That
was what we was gonna do. That was our plan.
I pulled the short. This was the plan. It was.
It was kind of like just a big fuck you
to everything that you're y'all making such a big dollogy.
No one's getting signed from this, this this this talent show.
Guys calmed down and that was always saying that to everybody. Okay,
so how are you gonna get on stage? You? Art

(24:20):
majors were always assholes, man, I'm sorry, completely on purpose.
We thrived on being an asshole. We did it on purpose.
But okay, so so I go to the choir the
quiet room to audition. I sang Boishman in the row.
The choiet major instantly asked me, why are you not
in my class because I'm not a singer. I was like,
yes you are whatever, Yeah, you in? Alright, cool, bye gon, alright,

(24:44):
I got in. How did you get in? Worry about?
I got in? All right? Cool? Get there. It's the
day of everybody's excited. All my own ways of sitting
in the front. I don't know how the hell they
manage that, because just something that you have to get
tickets too. But we find out in damn it. We
always degrassive. No, kids always find a way. Anyways, my
turn to go up. They introduced me, Uh, show your

(25:05):
love for Shaefer Smith. That's my real name, jeer Um.
I walked out on stage to no applause, because, mind you,
the kids at the school know me as uh, the
little dude with the braids that I draw your picture
if you give them ten dollars, Right, this is who
I was at this So the music starts and I
can't make this up. The music starts and I look

(25:27):
up at the crowd and all of a sudden, nobody's there.
Everybody's gone. I don't know it just it just in
my in my head, everybody's gone, the crowd is gone.
All I can hear is the song. So I just
started singing. I sang the whole song, sets said one place,
eyes closed, sang the whole song. I lives and all

(25:49):
all of that, all of that song and no applause.
All of a sudden, it was like, I can't it
was up this because it was it was definite. It
was like, where the hell did this come again? They
were shot. Let's think with the braids. That will draw
you a picture for ten dollars. This is who I
was all of a sudden, you know what I'm saying.

(26:12):
So so that at that moment, suddenly, you know, the
following days it's girls saying hi in the hall and
ship that that I knew. I wanted all of that.
You know, A buddy of mine, hey, me and some
friends we had a singing group. I don't know if
you want to join the group, Uh yeah, sure, all right.
And then once I got into the group and met

(26:32):
you know, some like minded gentlemen that wanted to do
the same thing. We sent around creating three four part
harmonies and whatnot. That's when it That's when it was
finally like I could I could do this for a living,
like I could really, yeah, I could. I could do this.
So you just left the grass and old people like
you just rolled out on them like I mean friends
and friends and we was always at but you know
it's it's at the same time I'm in, I'm spending

(26:53):
a little bit more time in the choir room a
little bit. I have to ask this question your class
of idea. So that said, did you go back to
your twenty three union? And I did? I did you

(27:16):
ste on him? Yeah? I don't. I'm not. I'm not
a stunt turn if that man, I'm my flex is
real life. It's like, you know what I'm saying, I'm
gonna I'm gonna put this ship on, but not say
I put this ship on. I'm gonna just wait for
you to notice that I got that ship on, Like
you know that's me. That's me. You know, I'm not
gonna draw attention to the diamonds, but should you see them?

(27:37):
God damn, you know that's me. Imply so you know
I went and mind you, the most famous people there
was myself apparently the drummer from the group The Killers
went to the same high school as me and um
at seven oh two. Right, it's seven o two, seven

(27:58):
o two, seven oh two, on their way out as
I was on my way. Okay, I just knew, y'all. Okay,
I just knew. Yeah. But um uh, she's an actress,
beautiful chocolate actress. She was on the True Blood show. Routina, Routina.
We went to we went to school together. Yeah, man, yes, old,

(28:21):
Routin Old. But you know what I'm saying, Queen Sugar,
wo man, nowadays this is a blessing of get oos.
I ain't even trip hell. Yeah. So the thing is,
you're saying that your gift of journaling or writing poetry
was sort of your your stress reliever. You're that you

(28:42):
let off steam. Um, did anyone ever hire your services
as like, uh you know quasi cr no divirgiac as
a right right something? All the time? Yes, all the time. Yeah.
I used to do a lot of that for football players.
That's football played for our school because there was no

(29:03):
football at our school, but Rancho was down the street.
And yeah, I know a lot of them, guys. Yeah,
I write write poems that they get their girlfriends or yeah, listen,
but ten dollars and dollars and doars. I'll let you say,
you go for it bucks, I'll never went hungry. I

(29:23):
would like to know what your process was then as
opposed to now. Um, as far as writing with the song, um,
are you a person that can get an idea of
just words without melody or knowing what type of song
it is? Or you know, do you have to sit

(29:47):
and listen to the song or how different is your
songwriting process high school post high school versus what you
do for a living now? I can honestly say that
when it was, you know, back in high school, before
before the stakes got high, you know, so to speak,
there was a there was a freedom to my writing

(30:10):
that that dwindled over time, you know, as as I
got into that place where it's like, all right, you've
had success, now you gotta do it again, and so
now you're overthinking every thing you do because it's like, oh,
is it as good as that thing? Before that, it
was kind of just writing whatever came to mind, and
there was no wrong way, you know, sometimes it was
it was a cadence that came to me. No melody,

(30:32):
just no words, just a caduce then then not whatever
the case. And then sometimes it was words I used
to so I used to uh, my my training, so
to speak. But if you want to call it that,
I would just go somewhere and looking around the room,
find a word, a phrase, a picture of something, create
a story around it, and then write a song based
on that story, just to just to sharpen, you know,

(30:54):
just to sharpen the tools. So it could be it
could be a word, it could be you know, somebody
saitting with guitar, and we said and create melodies that way,
then the words over the melody, like there's no wrong
way as long as we got to that that you
feel when you know, like yeah that thing, you know
what I mean. I want to thank you for validating me.

(31:15):
Oh yeah, thank you for validating me right now. No,
because you know, I wrote a book on creativity and
I was trying to um give various exercises. Well, the
first thing I told people is that they have to
embrace boredom more because when you're silent, when you're board,
when you're still, that's when the ideas come to you.

(31:36):
And you know, I was just suggesting games that you
could do like branding exercises where you know, uh, I
think Carly Simon used to randomly open a national geographic
page and look at one sentence and then based a
whole song on that. And so do hear you say that? Yes,

(31:58):
I'm glad that you validated me, because I don't consider
myself a songwriter, but I figured that for writing, that's
a great exercise to do. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean
it's because if you don't, you your songs tend to
become stagnant, you know what I mean, Like, there's there's
the okay, there's let's write about love, Let's write about sex,

(32:18):
Let's write about money, let's write about girls. These four
things are always gonna, you know, float to the top
for the for the younger generation, that's just kind of
is what it is to be young. I get it.
But if you just focus on those four things, then
all of a sudden, your songs kind of starts sounding
and like it's like, all right, well, well, you need
you need new ways to say the same ship, if

(32:40):
that makes any sense, And the only way to do
that is to step outside your comfort zone to find
a word that it's actually difficult write a song about
graphite what but hot cold on hot? What? What? How
do you sing? Because you can wrap it easy, but
singing is something step away from from I love you,
So never let me go, you know what I mean? Like,
step away from that and figure out another way to

(33:02):
say to to get that same It's that same point across,
but with different words and different phrases and different melodies.
Like I used to I still do. I can't lock
into one specific genre of music because you know, if
if it's if it's hip hop, is these these three
melodies that every hip hop artist is using, right, So
that's a very small bowl. If it's R and B,

(33:24):
you know, it's these chords, it's the church chords. It's
that type of Bible. Okay, that's cool. I step outside
of that, listen to some country music, listen to the
melodies over there, step outside. I listened to some some
some Hindi music or whatever, just melodies that you wouldn't
typically go to too and it and it helps just
expand your your your library of sound. You know what
I'm saying. When you sit down and do it, you

(33:45):
got more ship to play with as opposed to I
love you, So never let me go And you know,
the latest church song made over with R and B
lyrics on it. I want to ask, what are your taboo? No? No,
was right? Okay? I hate your my mind all the time,

(34:08):
maybe you all my mind. I think about you all
the time. Yeah, those those hurts, those hurts, it's just
so come on, man, like you ain't even try you
you phone, you phoned it into that like that's yeah.
I hate that. I hate the phone lyric, not not
never mind you the phone delork, not the simple lyric

(34:29):
because you can say it simply and it's still be clever.
Still have have you know, look kicked to it. Smokey
Robinson is the king of that, the king of I'm
gonna just say it, but the king of simplicity. Yeah yeah,
but it's but but still but still flyover like simple
but fly not just simple for the sake of simple. Like.
I used to have an issue with the whole concept

(34:52):
of repeating one word over and over and over and
over and over and over and over. It used to
it used to bug me because it's like, why there's
so many words, there's so many words. You mean rhyming,
rhyming words with words, and you mean like my my
my my mom, like just saying one word, baby, This

(35:12):
is why why I have the utmost respect for the Dream,
because the Dream find a way to do that ship
and it don't bug you. I don't know how, but
it don't. But hey, you know what I'm saying. It
works for him. Shout out to the Dream. How the
hell you do that? Because I'll be trying that ship.
It's like, no, that's no, this hit, this is not it.

(35:34):
Of your contemporaries, who are the you know, the people
that you respect the most and who are your I
guess you could say you're I'm about to say Mount
Saint Helen's uh the four presidents? Yeah whoo? Who who's
the Mount Rushmore of of songwriters? For you? Of songwriters?

(35:56):
Um see, that's that's that's an interesting question. I've actually
never been asked that question before. It's always who's just
your amount Rushmore like favor? Like so so if for
that question the question you didn't answer, you didn't ask them, well, okay,
let me let me reask instead of who do you respect? Now?
Who writes a song today that you're like? Damn, I
wish I wrote that? Like, is there a song that's

(36:18):
like man I wish I had a crack of that, Like, damn,
I've I've I've heard one or two Drake records where
the lyric was clever enough to where I'm like, oh,
I did not think of that. That was that was good?
That was good. Yeah, that that hurt. I've heard. I've
heard one of two records from him, uh in that space.
I don't know. I'm gonna be real honest with you.

(36:39):
I don't know a lot of the newer newer generation, right,
I don't. I don't know their names, you know. No,
no disrespect to anything like that, but it's just I
have to be I have to be enthralled in the
record today and take it upon myself to go back
and look at who wrote it, who produced it, and
if I don't, if I don't feel like that, then
I'm not. I'm not gonna waste the time. I'll let

(36:59):
it be what it is and keep it moving up.
On Victoria, she's a right, I really like her. Victoria Money.
I consider artists, but yeah, she's what she's a. Oh,
she's Ariana she but she's an artist, like you know,
like he said, but yeah, I love music, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(37:20):
shout out to Victoria Monday, shout out to shout out
to the girl her, who's your Mount Rushmore before you?
As in that's the level of the pinon game that
I would like my Mount Rushmore, ultimate Mount Rushmore be
an artist, writer, whole on because all of these guys
kind of embody all of that. Uh. Five gentlemen, Michael Jackson, Prince,

(37:41):
Sammy Davis Junior, Stevie Wonder, and Marvin Gay. Five Yes
that grew up in Vegas, grew up in Vegas. The
rat Pack I was. I fell in love with the
rat Pack. My mom brought it home, and of course
I gravitated. It's the same because he was the one
that looked like me. So yeah, man, that's what it was.

(38:09):
If you're in a rut, what's the process of you
dealing with it? Do you have other hobbies or other
other things that you get into like sometimes if I
I mean a great example is whatever the movie or
or I write a book, or I do something else
creative and that will make me miss music. So do

(38:29):
you have like another pivot that you go to if
you're ever in a trap of not being able to
finish the song? I think the I think the key
word is pivot because you kind of have to pivot
because if you don't, you sit there and force it
until yeah, exactly that. So, so the thing for me

(38:49):
has always been a step away from it, you know,
as hard as that maybe sometimes because you know that
that whole defeated thing starts setting, it's like, damn, I
let the song beat me. No, you're not defeated, it's
not done. Relaxed, you can come back. I'll step away
and not normally for me, I'll you know, play street fighter.
I'm I'm a I'm an absolute beast. That street fighter
challenge man, anyone who's your body? Nobody me? Or are you?

(39:16):
Oh dragon? Dragon? I don't so I'll do that or
you know, uh remember that the practice I'm telling you
about where I just look around the room and find
another word and just just something something to get the
wheels turning it again. That's all I really mean. And
that's if that normally helps, and normally helps. See, that's

(39:37):
that's how I play word or so I guess I
should sort of channel to actually writing lyrics because I
actually I treat my word old game like I'm writing
a song. I should have been writing songs by this
point not as hard as people make it. What's the
average time that you'll spend writing a song? Like, how

(40:01):
how fast does it come to you? I like that?
So what song to the right? So when I first
started getting attention, so to speak, I used to prop
myself on how fast I could write a song. That's
kind of where my name. That's kind of where the
name Neo came from. Uh Dion Evans, Evans main rescue piece.

(40:24):
He gave me the name because he I like, we'll talk.
Give me an hour. I could give you seventeen records
records and say seventeen smashes, right, seventeen records, you know,
seventeen you might three of them, joints might be something,
but seventeen records now, so now it's definitely more of

(40:45):
a quality versus quantity thing. Whereas then that same hour,
that where I could get where I gave you seventeen,
I take that hour to give you two, but it
would be two smashes. You know what I mean too?
That I know too that I know we're going to
hit the mark because I spend Yeah, because I took
the time to make sure that I was doing what
exactly what I what happened up here. That's always been

(41:05):
the hardest part for me, because I can hear it
done up here already. I just need to get it
out of here and into the world. And it's somehow
through that process of that transition from my mind to
the world, ship changes and things happen, and all of
a sudden, it don't sound like it sounded in my
head no more. And now it's like a ship. I
fail right, step away, beat somebody with street fighter come

(41:27):
back to fix the problem. That sound like finete for
our sens. No, yeah, no, you have to walk over.
That's not straight up for real. I wanted to ask
you man specifically about your work with Stargate, because I
don't have like really great charmistry together. And uh, I
remember we've met on a few occasions, but I remember
this was probably like god, this is like oh seven

(41:49):
oh six, um, but your first album in my own words,
it just dropped and we was in Atlanta, and um,
it was that drama. Drama was having a party. If
I feel like it was, it was, it was drama.
But anyway, some part in Atlanta and I saw you.
I was like, oh man, it's Neo and you were
like in there. I was surprised that you were even there.
You like had the hat all you like super chill.

(42:10):
I was like, oh wow, like you were like super
quiet enough, and I just walked up. I was like, yo, man,
like sexy loves the join off a new record and
he was like, YO, appreciate it. You know what I mean?
And like, but but I love that song man. And
you in Stargate, like y'all have chemistry, man, like, talk
about that process of working with them, what it's like. Well, firstly,
I was. I was so chill that night because I was.

(42:30):
I was shipping on myself in my soul inside because
I'm like, oh my god, it's this, it's people, and
I know that person. I know that person too. I
just calm down, relaxed, three to four and my mind
this is what happened in my mind. Outside it's like, yeah,
oh no, I was, I was. I was losing it.
But um, Stargate. The beauty of Stargate is how genuinely

(42:56):
humble and just kind of I hate to use the
term regular, because there's nothing regular about they level of talent,
but they're just ordinary people, Like you'll never see these
cats with the big dumb jewelry. You're never here yet,
star Gate at the top of the joint. They don't
do that. They let the music speak for itself. These
cats have figured out simplicity. It's like they came along

(43:17):
right on time where it was like, you know, again,
no distract to anybody. But we got to that place
where the producers are celebrity to now right. So you
you so enthralled and making sure that everybody know that
this is you, and you do so much to the
track that you ain't leaving room for the song. Now,
where does the song fit over all of this beautiful,
amazing ship that you've not done on this track? Here
comes Stargate with listen, we're gonna give you a skeleton

(43:40):
and let you put the meet on. We're gonna let
you let the song create the body because that's what
because technique, that's kind of what it's supposed to be.
It's a marriage between the two. You know what I'm saying.
It's it's the foundation that's holding up the structure, that's
holding up the structure, and that's that's what they do
to the point where you know they'll give me like
so so sick for example, was that that harp and

(44:03):
a drum and that was it and that's what I
wrote too. And then later on they went back and
put the chords and like theylled it up. You know
what I'm saying, sexy love same way, doom doom doom
doom that and uh doo doo doo. That's it. Wrote
the song. They go in later and put into the bells.
And what's was later wrong because it could to make

(44:25):
to make the track mailed to the song, you know
what I mean. No, it's like it's like cast what
caste doing that? Like, No, I gotta make sure everybody
know this my track. I did this, damn that song
whatever the song I did it. They're Swedish if I'm
not there, from Norway brothers from Norwegian mothers, Yes, which
kind of again speaks to your point. Quest. It's it's

(44:47):
it's different over there because there's a there's a different
level of respect for the craft over there. Like these
cats that they will sit on that piano, they will
get on that guitar, they will get on their drums.
They're playing everything, you know what I'm saying, and and
it's it's it's fun for them. It's like the fringe
benefit of it is that you make money, but that
ain't why you doing it. You're doing it because, like you,

(45:08):
when we finished, so sick, but we said, the studio
listened to that ship ninety times that night, just onesome
yoya yo, like just just joy, you know what I'm saying,
like that, and then comes out and does well and
it's like, all right, cool. But in that moment, honestly,
even if the song had come out and not done well,
just what we felt when we finished that joint was

(45:29):
like that. That was it. That's what you do for,
not the not the screaming your name, and not the
the money of it. Those are those are all fringe benefits.
Those should be French benefit based on the fact that
you did something from your soul and the world agreed
with you. That's how that's supposed to work, not the
other way around. I would like you to talk about
the left I um show the cut Yeah yeah, so

(45:55):
the cut um that was that was me. And remember
the guys told you right after that the situation with
the with the talent show that a friend of mine
was like, hey, at the same group. I won't know
if you wanted to say that was the group that
was us. We caught ourselves envy because we were from Nevada.
Just yeah, it was I thought I went into it,
but but not a lot. Um. Yeah, the cut was

(46:18):
after Apollo. We did Apollo Amateur United Apollo, and things
did not go to plan. I'll say that, um, what
you're saying, Uh, well, I mean while I'll put it
this way, Salmon didn't come out. Okay, he was doubled.
He was double dutch in the corner or he was ready.
What did you what did you say? What did you say?
We sang? We sang Players in the Hood by Danielle

(46:41):
Jones And to this day, every time I see Donnie Jones,
I apologize to that man for murdering his son the
way we did on that stage. It was it was.
It was not good. It was not good. But we
was younger, we was cute, and there was a lot
of girls in the audience, so they kept us alive.
But it had not been for that he was he
was in the corner like, am I going, I'm going, Man,

(47:05):
it was bad. It was bad. So yeah, after you
what wait, you gotta walk me through the process. What
is it to do? Like everything, even to the house bend, Like,
what what is the process when you do? Uh? So time?
So so basically you you you send them at the
time you send them, you send them the tape of

(47:26):
what you do, and they say, yeah, we'd love to
have you. Uh come on down mind you, they don't
pay for you to get there, and they just if
you can make it, come on, follow, follow, So you
get down there. Now what's supposed to happen is you're
supposed to come down a day early so that you
can rehearse your song with rate you and the cruise
who it was at the time when we was a
shout out to my man, rate you, I do not

(47:47):
blame you, brod. That was us. That was our fault. Um,
we didn't do that. We showed up the day of
the show with a tape because we thought that it
was gonna let us play our music off our tape
and it was like, no singers have to use the band.
We haven't rehearsed with the band. Well, while we are
not here yesterday. Anyway, it turns out Ritchie and the

(48:08):
crew didn't even know the damn song at the time.
They had no idea what the song was, so they
had to learn the song and then had to learn
how we wanted to come out to the song. It was, Yeah,
it was. It was completely messed up. Oh many lessons learned,
so many another song in hindsight, Oh no, no, no,
that that had to happen. That had to happen. It
had happened exactly the way it did. We needed to

(48:29):
be knocked down a couple of pigs because we we
had done. We had done all that could be done
in Vegas. We did every talent show one you know
what I'm saying. We did all that and we just
we went in there like I should this thing, Like
we really literally walked into place needed that. Oh yeah,
oh yeah this yeah, this Vegas. Yeah we do that. Yeah.

(48:51):
When after we got off that stage, it got back
to the back, we all ran in the bathroom and
just stood around and stared at each other for like
fifteen seconds and all buzz out crying at the same time.
It was bad. Yeah, So after the Apollo we was
like bad. We gotta redeem myself. You got so, you know,

(49:11):
shout out to my man Corey. Corey was like our manager.
He was a part of the group and he was
the manager. He was the one that was. You know,
he was the one that that wasn't afraid to talk
to people. You know, we ran up on Diddy one time.
I was like, hey, let us sing for you that.
But Corey was also the one that could never be
on time to anything. He's like I did. He told
us be there by eight. That shower type situation now
was stouts Corey. I don't know where Corey is currently.

(49:39):
Probably that out to my man Corey Park. We got
to the cut, uh two days or right, because he
was like, is there a band we need to rehearse
with that? Good? Like no, no, no, no no, no, no,
y'all got y'all got tape of music? Yeah, okay, cool,
we could use the tape. Why aren't we used to tape?
We went in with an original song that we've written
called pillow Talk. I think we did okay. It wasn't terrible.

(50:03):
It wasn't great by any means, but it wasn't terrible.
And we wind up losing to a girl that got
on stage and got next to Neked and I see
gave her, uh two more points and he gave us. Yeah,
the judges of the CUD I can't remember it. And no,
I think it was. It was it was guest judges
every different every every every episode. So I think it
was one of the judges. But he literally said it

(50:25):
on the show. He was like, he was like, you
know what, I wasn't really crazy about the song, but
when she started stripping, I gave her a note damn,
like damn. But everything happened for a reason. Everything happens
for a reason. That was one of the last shows
that we did as a group before we finally decided,
you know what, let's just do you remember performing with

(50:46):
us out in Vegas when Jay brought me out? Was
that all right? So I literally okay, So, you know,
as president of def JAM, you know, at that point,
I felt comfortable enough with Jada, you know too rib
him or you know, joke with him, like you know,

(51:06):
most people just treat him like the King, like the
good version of d I mean, like they don't mix
words or whatever. But you know, I felt like a
little comfortable where I just called him up randomly about
something and I would say that you were one of
the artists that he always he always advocated for, He

(51:27):
always fought for it, Like he was basically trying to
figure out which one of you guys that he wanted
on the next Roots record, uh, you know prominently either
like Crossette or you or you know tr like one
of you and um. So when he got word that
you were in town, he's like, all right, keep your

(51:49):
eye on him. Because at that point I was not familiar.
You know, I have my head under the stand when
it came to like any music that you know wasn't
the music. Already had my record collection and you came
out like someone owed you money, Like I didn't realize,
Oh you didn't know he had it like that talk.

(52:10):
And the first I wish there was a videotape because
there's a thing. There's a thing with Jay where he
turns around real slow like and I hate when that smuggie.
I told you so look he'll give me. He's like yeah,
because it's like the cherry on top. You're like, well
wait a minute. Now he was killing it. I was like,

(52:32):
oh my god, this he's going for James Brown Tammy
Show levels. So I knew the importance of where I
was at. I'm like, let me get this straight. The
Roots and Jay Z and me, oh my show my act.
All right, so you leave envy and then what's the
process of how do you get the attention of record labels?

(52:56):
Um So I left left Envy. But in the while
we were in and me again shout out to my
man Corey, you know, constantly moving around trying to trying
to get things in popfor us. We met this cat
who had a boy band signed to Hollywood Records, you
know at the time that was Disney's Yeah, and a
group out of a group called Youngstown. They were they

(53:17):
were never got huge, huge shoes, but they did well enough.
So it was like it was a concept where it
was like, write some songs from my group, and I
try and I'll help y'all get y'all help y'all get signed.
Type of situation. So you know, we wrote the songs.
Was what it was like at this time. I know
nothing of publishing, I know nothing of any of that.
I'm just like, we're gonna get it. We're gonna get
a deal. Yeah, yeah, right, a song whatever. So after

(53:38):
I broke up, after the group broke up, I I
basically started being managed by that guys. Now his name
was names uh Dubs. Everybody called him Dubs Dubs Wilson,
and he was he was the one that was kind
of moving, moving me around, you know, showing me that
different people. I was living with this cat by the
name of PAULI. Paul the producer he did Uh Teacher

(54:00):
Moses his first album. Oh yeah, Paul, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I actually met that. We actually met Teacher. I met
Teacher through that whole situation. I vocal vocal producing, arranged
that whole first album. I didn't. I didn't write. I didn't.
She she did all the writing herself that I was.
I was. I was infatuated with right itself. Yeah, I

(54:23):
just come in and you know, through harmony here in
that time. Okay, Still, that's dope. That'sn't that's music history. Like,
what is your patients level with vocal producing? Because I
ate it? Um, I don't do it anymore. I'll say
that you see it. Yeah, I'm not so so. Shout
out to my man's sauce, Uh Curtis Bills, a sauce

(54:45):
of formerly of the group Something for the People. Remember,
Something for the People. Sauce is my vocal producer, ranger.
You know what I'm saying. And so if I wrote it,
he's normally the one that's gonna take it with the
artists and and and get it, get it recorded properly
because he has the patience for that. I do note

(55:06):
that's what you need, all right? So can I say
or I won't ask for specific specific names, but you know,
because it's real, Like there's certain artists that I hate
working with because you got a Jedi mind trick him.
You know, they don't want to do another take. So
are there artists that you've had that situation with where

(55:28):
like they catch your attitude or don't want to do
it the way that you give you one more take? Yes,
your silence is telling me everything I've been in. So
I've been in with people that that people that you know.
I've been in with people and it's like it's either
it's either that or if they're so anal, Like, Yo,

(55:51):
did you hear the breath on the beginning of that?
Let me just get that breath one more time? No,
just just on the very on the very top, Let
me get that. Let me get again one more time,
not one more time, one more time for the breath.
I just gotta get the breath that sounds like Beyonce
Rihanna Man. That took an hour and thirty minutes. For
the breath. It's not a word. It's just a breath

(56:12):
at the top of the word. Hour in thirty minutes. Wait,
I gotta be I gotta ask you. Was it Beyonce?
It was not? Okay, it was not Wait do you
remember do you remember uh a bronx tail when they
had that now you can't leave moment? Yeah. I had

(56:32):
that with her once and never again. Like it was
about figuring out ending of a song, and I was like,
I said the wrong thing. I said, no, no, maybe
stuvans it's cool. We could just do with the regular ending.
We're good and he like oh, And she's like, oh,

(56:52):
we're gonna get this right and I said, well, it's
lunch break now, so we can just come back into
He says, no, we're gonna do it right now. I
don't care if it takes three hours. And it was
the now you can't leave moments. So yeah, that's the
that is. That is the Beyonce and I'm familiar with.
But it was but when I when I worked with her,
I wasn't needed. I wasn't there for a lot of

(57:16):
it like she she had it. I didn't have to.
That was that was one of the things that made
me fall in love with her even more, Like I
didn't have to feed her no notes, here's the next note.
I got it, okay, all rights Like she's like, I
wouldn't got coffee. I came back, the song was done. Okay, Well,
well what y'all got doing today? What y'all doing? Because

(57:37):
if that's the case, then what's your what's your favorite
what's your favorite song of hers that you've done? That
you you come back and heard her finished product and
was like, oh ship, yeah, thinking one that I did
with her that I didn't sere that way about everything
did because mind you so, so at this point, at
this point, I know a little bit about how to
sell a record, right, I know that you can't sing

(57:59):
the wreck ridiculously well because you mess around scared artist off. Right.
You have to keep it kind of middle of the road,
just just good enough. You know, Oh, you're talking about
making the demo. You're talking about making the demo? Yeah, OK, yeah,
I did not know. Oh yeah yeah. So anything that
I did for anybody, I sing the demo and send

(58:20):
it to them and they and they like it, dislike it,
whatever case may be. So be honest, and you do
it dry dry dry one you know one takedown, I
have Melany, I have harmony ideas here and here and
not in Stone, but here's it would be a good
place for a harmony. Here would be a good place.
That's all that's always needed when I come back, And

(58:40):
it's the airplaceable that you we all know and love
now so irreplaceable, uh, flaws and all you know it's right.
I'm them on and I'm a bit Yes, yes, that dry,
every everything, all the all of that that's heard, that's

(59:01):
all heart. I wrote If there's a joint on that
same album call if if You let Him Take Me
from you another where she just went to church on
the ship, like just yeah, I've never felt so useless
in a session then a session with Beyonce, like I
did not need to be there at all. Is there
a song of yours that vocally you wish he could

(59:26):
have been there in the room for it, just because
it wasn't the way that you envisioned it? Yes, okay, Yes,
it just didn't do what it was supposed to do. Uh.
So I love Luke James. Luke James is my guy.
Luke James has one of the best voices that I've
heard in a long I wrote a song for Luke James,

(59:50):
and what happened was the original the original key of
the song was way higher then he was then he
sings in his regular voice, so they had to drop
it down to where he sang. And if anybody knows
anything about when you take a high key song and
drop it down, it kind of takes a little energy
and little energy from the record. So when I heard

(01:00:11):
it back, it was like, damn, there three notes lowered.
Then I initially gave it to him and I wasn't
there when he cut it, so I'm like, as much
as I love Luke, this is not. No, this is
not That's not what the song is supposed to be.
But by that time it was too late. The song
came out. I didn't really do anything, didn't. I'm sorry.
I like the shine I did. It didn't. Yeah, it didn't.

(01:00:33):
It didn't do much of anything, but take another from
Luke again, an amazing singer, just amazing dude. Period. That
was just that was just a moment in time where
it's like, if if I knew that they were gonna
drop it down that many, that many keys, I would
have I would have just been like no, do let's
come else, let me let me do something makes more
sense in in the realm where you like yeah, because

(01:00:53):
it just it just took. It just took all the
all the energy from the record, Like yeah, it happen.
Like when I first heard Champagne Life, man, I was like, yo, dog,
that's the one right there, This's gonna be the one.
I wish Champagne Life was You're magnum Opus. That's my
all time favorite song of yours, And I wish that

(01:01:16):
ship would have because I felt it was like an
anthem there ever was a black excellence anthem. Yes, I've
seen it, and I wish that song was just like
way way bigger. Are there songs of yours that are

(01:01:37):
not your your, your out the gate hits that you
you know, wish we're bigger singles or that that jam worked.
I'm not a I'm not a dictator, meaning I'm not
to do going you know what the hell is jumping?
Hell with jumping. I liked this song that's a single,
living long. I'm not that dude. Right. There's a small
group of people that we all get together and we

(01:01:58):
pick what song is gonna make the album, What songs
gonna be singles, you know what I'm saying, and everybody
respects everybody's opinion. My manager, Tango, this is one of
the oddest creatures on the face of the planet because
Tango don't even listen to music. Yet Tango can always
the one that's gonna go whatever reason. But that always knows,
Like Nina, the whole room would be like, hey, he's like, nah,
trust me be and damnit, it would be being I'm

(01:02:20):
telling you it's it's the most frustrating thing in the world.
But so him just just a small group that that
I do this with, which means that there's been a
multitude of times wherever songs that I wanted to be
singles that didn't wind up singles. Mirror from the first album,
I wanted to be a single. I wanted that to
be a single. This was before de Gen realized that
I could be sexy. They didn't vieve me a sexy

(01:02:41):
said that was like, hey, it's all good. You know what.
At the time, I was priding myself on not being
that R and B dude, you know what I mean,
Like they're like, okay, if I can step on stage,
you know, four in a three piece suit and get
the same screens that you can't with your chest out
who winning, Yeah, alright cool? Right, So because of that,
I guess they was like, you know, mirror not not

(01:03:04):
when we're all right cool? Uh, Champagne Life, that whole
that whole album, the Libra Scale album was just man,
it was just so many things that went wrong, so
many things that went wrong. I take I take my
take responsibility for the things that went wrong. So the
Libra Scale album was what what what Champagne Life was
on when we went to when when I came back

(01:03:27):
from doing the Red Sales movie, and then uh then
another movie called Battle Los Angeles. So I so in
the process of doing these movies, I'm sticking real close
to the writers, real close to the directors because like this,
I want to I'm learning, Yo, I want to know
how to do this. I know I could tell a
story in three minutes. I want to have to tell
a story in two hours. How I do this right?
I guess I'm not asking the right questions. So I

(01:03:47):
go back to death Jam and I say to them,
so for my fourth album, I want to do like
a thirty minute maybe forty or five minute little mini
movie and let the album be the soundtrack to the movie.
And I'm like, okay, that's a that's a pretty dope
by there. Okay, bring us the script. Cool. Notice I
said thirty forty five minutes, right, this is before I
learned that in the world of screening and script writing

(01:04:08):
a page e crate to a minute. I didn't know this.
So whereas I told him thirty forty five minutes, I
brought them a script with a hundred forty five pages
in it and then like, um, what you what were doing?
What you want us to do with this? What the
this is not thirty minutes? This ain't go This ain't
So I had then take the hundred forty five pages

(01:04:29):
and bust it down to thirty pages, which took way
way long, because again I'm green to this. I know
what I want to do, I just don't know how
to do it. So bust it down to thirty. By
that time, the clock is taken. We ain't got time
to shoot no movie. All. You know what, Let's do this,
Let's do four, Let's do five long form music videos.
So the video of Champagne Life video for UH one

(01:04:51):
of a Million, the video for for Beautiful Monster. Yeah,
I just it. It didn't It just didn't go the
way I was supposed to go. Man, it just didn't go.
Households go. We got three videos in said we can
give you no more damn money to hell with you.
To be continued, We're not doing it. Champagne like was
all supposed to be the first single, and then we
come to Beautiful Monster. But then all of a sudden

(01:05:13):
in the ninth inning, everybody switches up and he goes, well, not,
we think Beautiful Monster should go first. And I'm like, no,
because I know what beautiful Monster is, beautiful monsters chasing closer.
I don't want to do that the moment. Let that
be that. Let's let's do you hear this record? Let's
go here, Na, No, no, you gotta you gotta international
fan base. Now you gotta feed your fan base, oh internationally?

(01:05:35):
Can I ask? Is this Jay Brown talking? Is this
l A Reid? Like, who's the Who's at the drive?
Who's the wheel? Uh? Is the little bit of all
of them is? Yeah? Everybody, everybody. Everybody got the hand
on the wheel and it's pushing at this point. At
this point, this is the fourth album, This is after
year the gentleman. So everybody's hands on at this point, right,
so right, and you're you're the gentleman there with so

(01:05:58):
now it's like, all right, all right, he's proven. Let's
you know, let's let's let's pay more attention than we
ever had before. Almost to a fault, because how did
you go a Beautiful Master first? Micro managed Beautiful Monster?
Did you know what it did? It did well overseas,
which we know what was gonna do, because that's what
it's for. I didn't do it over here. And then
and then they put out Champagne Life, trying to pick

(01:06:20):
trying to clean up behind Beautiful Monster, because Beautiful Master.
They let it rock for a little while it wasn't
picking up, so they all right, we're moving on, moving
on the Champagne Life. Champagne Life comes out. It's moving,
it's moving, it's moving. We want to drop another single?
Why let it know? Let why would you drop the
legs off of this? It's going You got a heat

(01:06:40):
rock with this next one. Okay, if it's a heat rock,
now it's gonna be a heat rock. Let it live.
They don't want to let it live. Chop the legs
off the Champagne Life with the next single, which did
not do well either. Then we went we ended ended
everything off with one of the new which which kind of,
you know, at the very least level of sut you know,

(01:07:00):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't in the red after the Damn album,
one of the million levels out, but it didn't, it
didn't do what everyone anticipated. Uh yeah, I was really
really down at them at that period of time. I
just remember being real sad a lot because it just
just so many things went wrong. I'm like, there's no
way that this is this bad of an idea for

(01:07:20):
all of these things to be happening like this. And
then I'll never forget that year I got invited to
Princess Grammy party. I mean, he's always used probably the
party of his house, so so you know, that was
silver lining in the dark clouds. So we went to
the party. I remember we're in the in the pool
house and there's like a like a plexiblast thing over
the pools are literally standing on the pool. I thought
that was cool. Um, So he's on the little stage

(01:07:43):
with his band rocking out. He sees me, puts his
guitar down, be lines to me and said what comes
to my ear and whispers and says Leebra Scale was
a good album and don't let anybody tell you different. Wow,
but this is But did you know what was? But Neo,
did you know what? He was whispering everybody's ear? Sorry,
this reminds me of all the stories that you told

(01:08:03):
me that that's don't even do. That's kind of what
he does. You know. We had one other encounter where
I was I was drinking Sla vodka and he leaned
over to me at the party and said, it's bad
for you. And that was that was the thing that
he did before we before we wrapped. I just wanted

(01:08:24):
to um, I always want to know, uh the song
time Luke for Sherman showcase about it? Let's talk about it? Yeah, man,
me and that's me and my wait do you know credit?
Do you know? Yeah? We met. We met on set.
I think the day that you that y'all take, we
met because I think the demo on that and like

(01:08:49):
right right now, Yeah, that day he was like he
was like, yeah, man, you sounded just like walking the
Scotty on the joint, like but but yeah, they yeah,
we we did that, man. And I was like Yo,
this is like crazy high. I don't know who they're
gonna get to sing it. And then I guess maybe
like a month later, Diallo shout to Diallo he came.
I was like, yeah, man, we got Dio to do it.

(01:09:11):
I was like, funk, yeah, that's perfect. So what was
it like for you? How did that song like come
to you? Like? What did you think? Like? What was
it like on your side? Brouh Diallo reached out, it
sent me told me about the show, the Sherman Showcase Show,
and uh, I asked me if I wanted to be
a part of it. I'm like, yeah, man, I've always
want to do funny stuff. I don't never get the
funny roles. Just for whatever reason, I got something funny,

(01:09:32):
all right, I thought I was. I guess I'm not
anybody you killed that ship man? Well, well thank you.
Tell We'll tell some of these damn casting directors that
I'm funny. It's like it's fun I don't never get it. No,
I'm always always get the music roles, all right, you're
starving artists, and that's what that's what I get all
the time. So he sent me the record because at
first I asked I was like, I need to write something.

(01:09:53):
He was like, you can, but I have I have
an idea, and then he sent to him. I'm like, oh,
I don't need to do none of this to that
d like it was a real song, like like you'll
realized that, like all the best word that watched the show.
We was like all them songs. We was like, yo
with an album, listen word without I'm down to do

(01:10:14):
more now that I know you're down to do more
because we Yeah, now that I know that, Oh yeah,
can we get a Sherman show case to say we're
taking on so long? Yeah? The data, well it's what
I mean, you know, like everything else, COVID push us back.
But the new season, I believe it's coming in the fall.
We we did the music, all the music and all

(01:10:35):
that's been done, but you know, we got pushed back
from COVID, But the new season is coming this fall.
Though I'll let me, I will happily revive the character. Yes, okay,
Can I ask about self explanatory real quick? Yes, yes, yes,
I just want to know because back to this conversation
that we were having in the beginning of the show
about music and whatnot, I'm curious to how you continue

(01:10:56):
in the legacy on this album and by still keeping
it fresh. Okay, So so this album I started designing
eighteen and then you know, of course COVID pandemic, quarantine
and all of that stuff hit and just throw a
monkey wrinch and everybody's situation that happens. So um, a
good half of this album I had to I wand
up having to kind of do over, you know, because

(01:11:17):
it's like you work with a producer in teen you
do a song's all r yeah, it's for the album.
You didn't pay him yet, and then y'all ain't spoke
and then you called me two and he's like what happens?
Like that's so good? So we had we had to
redo some stuff. But overall this album is it's definitely

(01:11:38):
me as me. I mean, I called itself explanatory because
I feel like I've been here them in twenty years.
Do you really need an explanation to a Neil record
at this point? Not really? Right, not really not really
do you understand what this? But on top of that, um,
this is this is me acknowledging what's going on right now.
I can never become it. I'm forty two let me alone.

(01:11:59):
I can never become it, but I could acknowledge it,
you know, I can acknowledge it. I can acknowledge the
parts of it that I did, you know. So, So
there's one song in particular, so actually the first song
on the on the album UH cat from the newer generation.
His name is a France If you ever heard the
name before, look him up. Yeah, he got something. He
got something to the point where I let him feature

(01:12:21):
on the album the name of to join his land Lowess.
It's quality record, but it doesn't sound like typical neo.
It's more the song of the song leans a little
bit more towards his his generation, and I'm just kind
of you know, uncle on the side of the thing.
But I'm never I'm never the cat that's gonna jump
on the record and not be me. I can that that.
That could never. I can't do that. So even if

(01:12:42):
it sounds a little more Uh contemporary than than than normal,
it's just me acknowledging the changes and the evolutions that
have happened in R and B. Well, at the same time,
I'm gonna still get my bridges. I'm still geting my three,
four or five part harmonies where I could and get
him in there. All that is gonna be on his
album as well. Um, it's it's just me celebrating the

(01:13:03):
fact that I get to do music for a living top.
That's that's pretty much what this album is. Yeah, that's
dough man. Oh and I've been to tell you too, man,
like good man, I love Yeah. I thought that was
so dope, like y'all chop up. How does it feel
like that was? Yeah? That was another one that I
felt like should have got way more attention than it did.
But you know, I can't. I can't tell people what

(01:13:26):
to do. And she's got her own, like you be,
creating panthems for the fellas and the ladies. That's it's
kind of amazing and like progressive to think progressively in
a way. It's that's kind of dope. It's misindependent. I
know that. But I'd like to say she got her own. Yeah, yeah, black,
I like we say she got out man. Oh, I
want to see you you see it? Working with her?

(01:13:47):
We gotta yeah, I gotta yeah see it. Man. She's
like amazing, right, love talk about working with her? Yeah, man,
so so Um, she wrote the hook to let Me
love you and I love you. You learn to love yourself.
The funniest thing. I was like, because I heard that leok,
I'm like, yo, where did you come up with that?
And she said, oh my a meeting, that's what they say,
We're gonna love you, love yourself. I'm like, yeah, that

(01:14:13):
is the realist person alive. I remember that is actually
that session we were sitting in the back was at
Westlake Studios on Santa Monica and we were sitting that
room off of the A room, and uh, I was
looking at the tattoos on her arms. She has pictures
of dogs, but it looked like a four year old
drew a dog and it's just a bunch of them,
like all over her arm. I'm like, what is it? Anyway,

(01:14:37):
I'm I'm sitting there because I'm I'm in awe of her,
because mind you, I'm I'm zero seven, you know what
I'm saying, Like, I'm from there. I finally get to
work with us, So I'm geeking out and I'm like, yo,
I'm sorry, You're just supposed to be way bigger than
you are. And she was like, yeah, but I don't
want it. I want to go to Taco Bell and
I'm like, what she's I want to go to Taco Bell.

(01:14:59):
I want to be able to go to Taco Bell
and get a taco if I feel like, if I
get any bigger and people don't my fact, I can't
go to Taco Bell. I'm like, that makes a lot
of damn sense. So I guess we gotta figure out
a way for your music to get the recognition it loves.
But you being there still going to Taco Bell. She's like,
she said, I'm working on the next thing. You know,

(01:15:20):
he comes up with the videos with little Maddie dancing
and and half the world don't know what's he looked like,
yet the whole world loves of music. I'm like, she
figured it out, and it's just victory. Stories like that
just just make my heart smile, man, because because I
just remember sitting there with her, like, how are we
gonna get you to Taco Bell? They need to hear
this music, but we need you got to get your
Taco Bell. How are we gonna do this? She did?

(01:15:41):
She figured it out. Now, Now I have one question,
because I was one day old, I didn't realize that
you wrote mac Wild's is owned it? Yeah, I still
spend that to this day grab songs that you wish
you would have kept for yourself. Um not when they
do well, you know what I'm saying. I look at

(01:16:01):
it like if it came out and it was a
hit on it came out clearly that's where it was
supposed to be. Now when it come out in it
don't do well, I'm like, well, damn, that's how he's
gonna do. I should have kept it. I could have
did better than that. Another another question, because you were
one of the staff writers of the Empire series, how
much how much pressure was that, Like at the top

(01:16:24):
of the season where I would imagine even the summer before,
it's like you gotta have like whatever fifteen songs or whatever,
Like what's the division of labor where like how do
they assign those songs to get done for it? Because
every episode of Empire had at least like six to
seven ready made, like real sounding songs, not just like

(01:16:47):
you know whatever they would just play on the background
of a different world, but like really fully produced no no, no,
Gordon gar Trail songs. But how much how much pressure
was that? Like was this the stuff inside at your
your cannon that you had in the back already or
were you like custom making these songs on the spot? Well,
I didn't. I didn't come in until the following season.

(01:17:08):
The first first season that none of that was me.
I didn't none of that second season is when they
when they when they pulled me, and it was honestly
a really pain painless process bro the day. And I
don't know if it was just because it was me,
but they was basically like, well, what what you got
for us? Well? What do you need? What? What what what
you got? Oh? Well damn, all right, Well well let

(01:17:30):
me look into you know. And then I got to
meet Jesse, I got to meet uh, you know, yeahs
and and and I have to meet Surrey and all
of them, and like kind of really developed kind of
a friendship with them to where it's like, all right,
I know how to write a song for you. Now,
I know what your voice does. Now I know I
know what works? What doesn't you know what I mean?
So they really rolled out the red carpet for me.
It made it very easy for me to produce anything

(01:17:51):
that I needed to produce for the show. Definitely sweet. Well,
I want to thank you for you know, doing the
show with us. And you know, thank you for thank
you for the records, thank you for the records, thank
you for the thank you for the bridges. Let it
up especially, and you should audition. Maybe you start auditioning

(01:18:11):
for like some romantic comedies. I see like maybe starting
out it's like a sidekick situation and being the funny
funny if you want to do. I just I see that.
I see that for you, you're doing it. No no, no, no,
no no no no no. I know I feel I
don't want to do I'm won't say I don't want
to do a romantic comedy because if the rad will
come on, I'm gonna do it. But I want to

(01:18:31):
be play a paraplegic white man who just realized kind
of mom was black. I want to do something that's
so not me. You want to be lieutenant? Come on, man,
I'm trying to tell you. I want to be something
that's so not me that when people learn this meeting,

(01:18:53):
oh damn, Okay, that's what I want to do. I understand,
that's what I want to do. I understand you went
real far to the left left. I need that. I
need German chef just got shipwrecked in Africa. Have to
learn how to make showcase Season three Wars Family Fonte,

(01:19:15):
Did you hear that? Neo? Come on to write that
song for you. I can tell it's so and a
little and sugar Steve and I'm paid Bill and uh
Lieutenant Dan over here. This is quest Love Supreme. Thank

(01:19:36):
you for doing this and we'll see you on the
next peground. Quess Love Supreme is a production of my
heart Radio. We more podcasts from my heart Radio visit

(01:20:01):
the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.