Organized Noize Part 2

Part 2 of Questlove Supreme's Organized Noize interview in Atlanta continues with a discussion about OutKast's progression as producers and the dispersing of the Dungeon Family. Rico Wade, Sleepy Brown, and Ray Murray revisit favorites from OutKast, Cool Breeze, and Curtis Mayfield while uncovering major plans that never came to fruition.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Question Love Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. Yeah,
what's up, everybody? This is fun? Signal over In Quest
Love Supreme. In part one of our Atlanta interview with
Organized Noise, we discussed how the gods Rico Wade, Sleepy Brown,
and Ray Murray got down together. We also heard how
they changed the game in terms of sampling and really
gave Atlanta a musical identity and wrap. Please make sure

(00:22):
you check out the first half of that interview. And
now that we're back apart two, this discussion is gonna
be just as rich and even better. I know y'all
gonna enjoy this one. I enjoyed this one. These brothers
are legends and gods to me only on q l
S Yes her. What happens when suddenly the student wants

(00:51):
to become the teacher? Like, what's the division of labor
in terms of you know, I'm sure that you guys
are a tight, three tight unit that handles the music
noise versus three? What's what was the we wanted them
to learn? If we wanted if we wanted them not
to learn, they would have been in the sitting there
next to us. Why we're doing it? But we wanted them.

(01:14):
But how how are you guys as friends and as
business partners when it's time for bad news and production?
Who's the person that has to like you talk about
a song that almost didn't make it like well, um
to be very honest without dynamic because it was a
parliament type of family. So it's like you had a

(01:36):
George Clinton, then you got Boots. So you've got all
these different people who came from this. That was great everybody,
the legends, but they all rot with somebody because that
person had the thought process that they all agreed upon.
Ray and sleepy thought process musically hip hop, drums, rawness
and music, vocals, harmonies, being them live organic. Who's not

(02:02):
using that now? Who's not who? It's like we got
all not not thinking about the brakes as much. All
you're thinking about is the brakes. Like so you you
you got a marriage of like something like a sound
that becomes a sound. Me the competitor. We're gonna compete
with whoever else doing it, because we got it. I
got so we're gonna compete whatever I need to learn

(02:24):
or to bring to it as far as musicians, as
far as um the lame part what kid and who
cares what keep we in? I need to know what
keep me in so I can make sure everybody's know
what what I'm saying. Like but like they just they're
just doing it so big and dre CeeLo guilt anybody,
um p a geese, anybody who's around these two people
when they were making music, Oh me us, it was us.

(02:47):
But just how hard core they were about their things.
Like God, if it ever, if he didn't care, none
of his beats came out, We're gonna make them every
day and just throw them to the side. You had
so you you you're around people who as acting like that,
you might think, like God, that's the dope. He just
turns it off to something else. I want a chance
to do it. You want to follow into it because
you want to do it your way. Nobody is gonna

(03:09):
do it the way these casts doing it, But you're
gonna learn so much Kanye West, any of these producers,
Like like what Organized Nors did wasn't one person, you
know what I'm saying, And while they was working, I
might have been the store buying sounds, you know what
I'm saying, or whatever, like whatever it took budget, Like
someone who can be like, that's let's pay for it. Yes,
we could pocket more money. Like we learned a big
lesson from Parento Advisory with Pebbles. We use a lot

(03:31):
of samples and um. She told us. She was like, well,
you got like nineties thousand dollars left in your budget
and you guys get the remainder of the budget, but
you gotta give me all the samples first. Let me
clear the samples first. Then we end up getting negative three,
right what I'm saying. So from that point, from that
day we started working on Outcast, Like that's when we
have found Outcast, So we knew it's gonna be hip hop,

(03:54):
but we're we're feed to get better. So I hadn't
started incorporating with sleepy new with live musicians want y'all too,
like some of youall session musician like Chance Parkman and
like some of like the guys like who what's y'all's relationship? Yeah,
Preston from Preston Kenneth Right. Kenneth Wright was one of
the first ones when we did Outcast. They end up
kind of drifting to the church a little more but
great and who was playing piano on probably one of

(04:15):
one of my favorite productions. You'll ever growing Old Nigger.
That's chance. That chance it is on that one, dude,
there's a chance. Okay, there's an a t Alien sampler
that came out and it has a version of Growing
Old on it. I think it's an early version. Look
at that drops fat asses turning flat. Yeah, and it's

(04:36):
a version it's before I guess y'all played version. I
like the als version, the one that came out. That's like,
that's the one. But was that the reason why y'all
took the sample out? Sample? Was it? I don't know
the sample? Yeah, it was just a different version. I
don't rember differently what sample was. I don't remember no sample.
And it was a different version because I know, I know,

(04:57):
I maybe this is I don't know who did. It
was just a different version. It was a different version.
They had no samples in it. This is why. But no,
that's like just a gorgeous song spoken. I was just
I was thinking about that. Marco Waz my Queers wrote

(05:19):
that hook or whatever like, and Marco Way suggested waterfalls.
So like we just wanted to sound We felt like
we owe outcasts a record that sounded more like something
even if it wasn't um, if it wasn't a third
single or whatever. We felt like since we produced them,
we got to present some of the kind of music
that we've done on other artists. And that's something else
I want to say too quick. It's like why we

(05:40):
never had that problem with Big and Dre because we
was going, like we we had Waterfalls out before their
second album. They thought we would have These are the
guys whoever they put out. They didn't know Outcasts was
gonna end up being twenty millions sellers. And I'm saying
it's like, but they took they they had like in Vogue,
like even the fact that we did sell out Therapy

(06:01):
Rock New York like this, this this song and watch
for the Hook. I haven't watched for the hook when
we did the Tunnel in New York City the night
that I knew New York loved this, Oh keV favor

(06:22):
my theory would watch for I thought that was like
y'all's answer to Benjamin's like it's you know what I mean,
just the sixteen hats that like it felt it felt
like that like a y'all's answer to like what East
Coast Club record was. It's the foundation of hip hop. Yes,
break breakdown, I would, but you gotta understand. It's like

(06:53):
just listen, listen. I just want to say this, this
is this is hip hop from the South. Right, what
song do we sund on? Southern Man? Come on? Come on?
It's a brother man, you and everybody else. But if
you're dug in the crates, you'd be like, man, this

(07:15):
is something called Southern Man. Come on? Man? Killed that? No,
each points great? Listen, Man, like that record I remember reading,
but just all the stuff that happened with Interscope and everything,
like y'all's production on that album. Man, like Witch Doctor
and Kulbrees, Like man, y'all was in the zone and
and really we were just giving back. We did Goody

(07:38):
Mob album. Every time we was in a position to
do what you said, keep it rough and raw, even
if we sacrifice having a commercial, bigger success. We put
something a swat healing reach Witch Doctor like coulbree and
it was like it's like it's like it's like Breeze
is dirty South for when it was on the Goody

(08:00):
Mob album. But he the one who said, what you
really know about the dirty side. It's his song, So
It's almost like it was his song get Up, Get Out,
that's see low. That was his song, but it was
on Outcast album, but it was his song. So that's
what they did as a family like like like like
being around it was like it was our Wu Tang
other people. They were setting their people up, you know
what I'm saying, and not doing it too commercially like

(08:22):
you know, like it's bb D Boys and Men and
ABC like, but but doing it like that because we
come from R and B. You know what always talked
about if that first Outcast album would have been called
dudget family, people would get people will get it one
and we will be in the same thing as Wu Tang. Yeah,
because I'll put everybody on everybody. That's what the album was.
It was just out care. It was working on everybody

(08:45):
was around that every day like literally because these kids
was kids fifteen, sixteen, seventeen doing it and this time
worked on that album it was seventeen or whatever. So
so at that point we put them first. But at
the same time, we all knew it was all our opportunity.
So I need I need your best, I need your best.
They gotta they gotta do they part. They gotta do

(09:06):
they part. But everywhere where there's a little spot sleepy,
I'm gonna need you to do funky ride. I'm saying, yeah,
big route. Right onto the real depth to the question
free Wow to open the album with really could have
been an anthem at no point where you guys like,

(09:28):
let's make this a song, like a full fledged song
and that the drums free and You May Die, which
is like my favorite intro of any album. I'm gonna
say this about free first because because this court, this
this thing has been happening all day. Philly in Atlanta
got that soul. We got that soul. You know why

(09:48):
because my my um when I was big brothers McKenley Horton,
he came down here, just jumped onto McKenley Horton from Philly, Philly.
He just jumped. He just jumps on the world or whatever.
And see it just started saying it was church. I'm like, man,
it was not put together type of thing like like

(10:10):
just like it was. It was a flex. It was
it was another two. It was like Celo is raw
and you see and you see where he is now.
We was that, you know, like we wasn't holding him
back but we was making a street wrap album. These cats,
a lot of the peers that just had died like
from school. It was very and we had the power
to not make them the uh like a goodymle fun group.

(10:33):
That was obviously what you're supposed to do. After Outcast,
you got you got this, Yes, you got this Parliament
type of funky music. I know, you bring these guys
out funkier and and this and stuff. But we were like,
now we wanted to dig deeper into hip hop and
and make them see that we respect that. We know
we got the gloss on us or whatever, but but
we're serious about this. That's why the next Outcast and

(10:53):
we dumbed it down with with with singing hooks and
tried to make it more wrap hooks or whatever. Tell
no for me, like the genius of Elevators was the
whole Greek course. George, you want to you know, it

(11:15):
makes it sound like where they're on stage, we want
them debated before in the hooks. So read Read reveals
to us the process of speaker boxing level below and
the fact that speaker Box was just his solo record,
and then he says, Drake called it was like, when's
this coming out and read was like you know, and

(11:36):
five weeks he's like if I if I finished my thing,
Like when I have to turn in, he said, like
three weeks. Three weeks, So for twenty one days he brushes.
Are you guys even aware that Dre now creates that
or has been creating that record and has a twenty
one day deadline to finish everything? Big Boy and Drey,

(11:57):
we're going back and forth with that for almost a
year before it's like they said they weren't gonna work again.
This is when they told us that this is their
last album and we might not and they want to
do it at that point, and I mean, I know
Antonio probably said it, but the guys, and that's where
he does get credit. He gets a lot of credit
because he saved outcast the brand and that's something that
he was invested into from day one. Like he knew

(12:18):
that this is big in this aster world. This is
that like like this was huge, Like this is a
Whitney Houston, this is a Tony Braxton, this is a
big group. Like that's right, Like that's when he used
his business skills and then let them sabotage their own selves,
you know, I'm saying, but like looking like so he
was like, man, put them out together. But but but
it's so. But the fact of whatever death Man you're

(12:41):
talking about, I know that I'm lucky. I'm happy that
Big Boy had the Way You Moved because I think
they doubted Andrea's album. They they thought they thought he
didn't want to put Andrea out because he didn't think
that it was right. Because like, you know, we knew
with Dre it was going to be different, but it's
gonna be And thank God that, you know, we came

(13:04):
up with the Way You Moved because I ain't gonna lie, man,
I was nervous for Big you know what I mean,
just because you know, I'm not saying that the popularity
was with Dre Moore, but people were actually waiting to
hear we whatever. It's funny how like you know, I'm
sitting over at the house at a at a cookout

(13:24):
and Big has this uh CD player has two hundred
CD changing and I'm sitting in the boom room and
all of a sudden, this beat comes on that he
had this song for like three years and it was
the Way You Move, but it was broken all the
way down didn't had the horns and just had a
d D the little keyboard because I a little buddy
of Carmo did the beat calm. So when I heard

(13:47):
that beat, I started. It reminded me of Marvin, so
I started humming to No, No, No No. I was like,
oh ship, So I ran out of the base. Big
we gotta go to the studio to night. I got
a crazy hook for this one. And the way you
who was actually going to be my record, you were
gonna do a whole new record for Big and be like, yeah,
we could do that. But when l A, when l

(14:08):
A reheard it, he was like, no, that's your rap. Yeah.
So I'm happy that it did because I didn't hear hey, y'all, bro,
I did not hear hey y'all to I saw the video.
But perfect, wasn't that y'all had? Like Big Boy, it
was great because he had the fucking radio hit, right
because the black radio hit, whereas it was number one,

(14:32):
So all right for me, probably I'll say the end
of you know, no rap work day whatever where every
every major cosmopolitan city with the black radio station still
had their like you know, more music, less wrap, you
know whatever, that kind of died down and maybe two
thousand and five, two thousand and six, but for me,

(14:54):
all right, so w d S, which is the cons
not the conservative, but the older it's not the high
the urban Yeah, the urban station. Do you realize that
for at least half of the radio stations playing the
Way You Move, we're playing a big boiler's version of

(15:14):
that song. Yeah? Yeah. I was literally like, where's the verse?
And I was like, you know, they actually made a
whole ass song. They would play your Bridge twice as
the verse. And I heard that when I was in
l a If it came out and I was playing pool.
So did the label do that or did you guys
do that? Like? No? Nothing? What what what happens is
that in order to get your your spins up, you

(15:37):
can't turn down, Like do you know they played Waterfalls
without Left Eye on those same stations they took Converse out. Yeah,
I'm saying so, but it was those stations that we
don't listen to. We don't listen to them, but those
stations generate so much. Still need the BDS. You need
you need to spins, You need to spin, like if
that's what y'all need, and you need to spin. I

(15:57):
was like, it's dis it's disrespectful. So they don't even
tell of the artists because it's rude kind of fly.
Don't hate my brother big I love. But it worked,
it worked. It didnpposed to do it would imposed to
do so any point between like the first momentum of

(16:24):
organized news, Let's say when the socks and draws come
out the original player ball, right, yeah, so between al right,
so speak ABox is two thousand three, so that's in
your period. At no point were you guys just like, hey,
let's do like, let's really be a group now, or

(16:44):
were you just like, no, we'll we'll, we'll be the
pilots of the ship and just produce all their stuff.
They man, I used to pay these foods to be
a group. Many never want to do it. So so
was the closing well back, is that the closest y'all
king with like society soul and sleepy was the closest
we're not not sleepy thing? Yeah society, But what was

(17:09):
the resistant we didn't want to be a part of.
But l A. Red said he wasn't gonna do the
group unless all of us in it. So it was
like it would literally be like they were going the
road Big Rub and Esperunza, Man Ray pop up. Whenever
we just looked at like Jim Jam Taylor Lewis, we
just gonna be as as I wanted to, you know,
she wanted to be a group with them. You know,

(17:30):
you got to realize like we had took on something
very like it's like what we were doing for our
own little family far as you know, but but what
we did for the South, how we had inspired that
we really we were like and way I was battling
Puff with these weekends and ship, like we was important
problem talking about not talk. No, I'm just saying that,

(17:55):
like Puffy is the king of marketing promotions and he
was a part of you know, you know, you don't
want this bad boyship coming in your city just taking over,
but it was coming and they post it was it's
kind itself was more like everybody just wanted me to
kind of like be against But I'm like this nigg
is coming like a right right, So we're gonna play tough,

(18:20):
but at the end of the day, we're gonna we're
gonna we're gonna work together. We're gonna work together because
it's respect and that's the way that God bless Kim
Porter say it's passed away, But Kim would call me. Yeah,
Kim would call me and be like he got he
want to show space. He I'm gonna do that with
your main and that knows it and not do not
show no respect. The Dungeon families there was more of
a puff. Knew how to talk to people, knew how

(18:42):
to trick you to get to do with you. But
he wants so so but that was important. But it
was also like a half so a little bit even
though you forget how important marketing is or whatever you
for Yeah, I'm important the promotion is. But really, you know,
we really just wanted to um make music and really
figure out other ways of um getting more like different
stuff out because Atlanta was but um India I read

(19:03):
with these it's such a why It's like we didn't
set this hippop off, but we know R and B
and soul music is here, so we're thinking about how
to make soul and R and B cooler and it's
gotten that way now. So we did society or so
it was us trying to find a was pushing the
edge on with it opened up the door for the
neo soul like no Man embraced, Like I ran the

(19:25):
funk out of that record Black Mermaid. To me, this
is an earth let me say this, like Society Soul
album was actually some outcast Ship. But Ray was like,
they can't go back and do that style. They gotta
come a little more hard and different. So me and
Rude was like it with Ship, let's let's do a group.

(19:45):
Because the first record was Peaches Heard. That was the
first record that we did at Kurt Tone. That's the
one that's the one that they didn't really want to
do it like that, I'm like, well we might always
do a group. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So
that's kind of how the whole Society so came up.
See what they came up when we was in the
Scope and we had a Doppler studios, we had all

(20:06):
three rooms right. And it was also because Sleepy from
day one, remember you hear the story, he this was
his mission. We kept putting it on the back burner
because of our success as producers. Even in players Ball video,
Sleepy killed their hook. But because of the Face Records marketing,
he Balllyd was in the video Get Up, Get out,

(20:29):
the Priss Burson, Get Up, Get Out. It didn't have
Celo rapping at the beginning, and I was like, this
music industry bullshit could can destroy artists, Like I gotta
go back and face these people and say like, but
I'm telling him, like this ship is stupid. But but
but but but but we gotta put big and dred
we got And that's why I said, going back, going

(20:49):
now to the story speak about his love below. This
is his brand. This is his brand, big and dre.
And that's one thing I could appreciate about him, even
though you want to should have been Dungeon Family out,
should have been done, the family out, But he's like,
we got big injury side. So when y'all did the
Dungeon Family even in darkness, how we y'all as a
crew at that time because my record off that albums

(21:11):
followed the light, like I love that was the one.
And they came and they came in, they came together
naturally like everybody in the studio just singing, and they
all there was some real Dungeon family type of dame.
You could feel it. I love, but that music industry
bullshit that L A. Read was doing then I swept forth.
He put Dungeon Family on. When y'all bring it up?
Did those memories come up? He put out Outcares Greatest

(21:32):
his album that he never knew that we never knew about.
Two weeks after he put out Dungeon Family out, he
just gave he literally, ga, no, no, he gave us
a million dollars just so Outcast would be cool with
putting up because they knew that putting out the greatest
hit name was what were were doing that for. He
knew he was trying to work the Outcast. Now I
keep selling. I could put our full Outcast records right now,
with with with with them on one song. I can

(21:53):
just keep it going. I need to meet a certain
quota world. The old world should have been the single
Dungeon Yeah, yeah, something. It's like the fact that he
was planning. But that's not an outcasting. That's not an
organized nor stain. That was an l a read thing
playing the game. As far as like thinking, he knew
more about he knew more now and he saw master

(22:14):
p and everybody was doing it out Cast on. Now,
if you were fair, which side are you gonna hang up? Right?
I was? I was living when I saw that man.
We would we would show we would show up at
certain places and um, and this is like I didn't
have any more control of the business part because we

(22:36):
had the end of scope deal. So now we're still
a crew. How are you talking about? How how did
things go between us and them? We all stayed the family.
The problem was when we wasn't in control of the business. Yeah,
things broke up. Everybody broke up. I mean everybody because
we wasn't in control of That's what we're translating some
of those conversations, like when the sight of say big

(22:56):
and they're not stars. I didn't go back and tell
them that kind of you know what you're Yeah, you
know what you're talking about. You know what I'm saying.
You're telling me I'm the start, I should be in
the group, and I'm like an R and B. I'm
like big daddy king, like the whole bos like I
want to having this bu you try to get that

(23:20):
he go work. Now if by record on that one
it was sick. Of course, it's the single six minutes
and White Guts, White Guts was crazy. But giving up
the big boy General Patton Man on God y'all, every
world here is this man hold us down better than anybody,
better than anybody. He is a true leader. He's a
true leader. I wanted Dred to be the leader, and

(23:41):
Dredy tell me you're the leader, like I'm the leader,
and that's right. But he's right. But but but big boy,
big boy is the general. Patton Man, I love him
to death. That man like elevators that me and you ain't. No,
it's like big Boy his that is. That is what
out cast is andres where outcasts became. As far as

(24:03):
like the fact that his creativity was a prince, then yes,
the fact that he learned good chart he showed you
started off as a rapper, just rapping and not making
beats and become a person that's writing your own songs
and records. Like like you're playing every play, every you play, instrument,
play whatever you want to do. If you love it,
and that's all music asked. You gotta put back into it.

(24:25):
You got now, right man? Yeah? Man, he on the flute,
he popping up, He popping up in people. Man, I
want to see him. He just walking around playing in
Philadelphia hard more like Yeah, I had a question I

(24:47):
had a question about so Curtis may Feel the New
World Order album. Oh man, was it true that y'all
recorded his vocals on his back? Yes, we did talk
about those sessions. Um the First World the song and uh,
we were sitting there and they brought him in and
he had to see the whole thing on his back.
So when he was singing, sometimes with spas and is

(25:09):
no to go up or whatever, but basically he really
sun the song and like maybe two takes bro like
he really killed it. It was really amazing to actually
work with him before he passed. And because I'm sitting there,
you know, playoff balls out and I don't know how
you feel about it. So I'm nervous as here because
I'm sitting I'm like, oh about Curtis Mayfield vocals. Damn.

(25:30):
So he's in there. The first thing he said to
me was sleeping. I really like what you did on
that on that how can they play his ball? Keep
it up? I was laughing because at that time everybody
was comparing his vocal to Curtis Mayfield. Yeah, Curtis Mayfield
vocal on That's what the writers were saying. And at
that point I was cool with it because we kind

(25:50):
of had a relationship with Curtis mayfield Son. It was
kind of like a family thing or whatever where we
knew them and we actually and we actually we was
gonna buy his father studio, but but we didn't want
to take it from still so an existence no no,
no wait, So can I ask you, Sleepy, how do
you feel? Do you feel you got your just at
this point as a solo artist? But all these stories, man,

(26:14):
I could say this, I've been very fortunate to meet
all my heroes. I'm talking about everybody used to sit
down and look at the album for hours and just
Earth Win and five. I had a chance to walk in.
But when I tell me that Earth Winning Fire, because
I admit George and George became like a father to me.
So but I meant all the original meals of Earth
when the Fire we walk in for the Grammy rehearsal,

(26:37):
and I'm like, that's right, I said, bro, they go Marie,
hold on they He was like, yeah, they're before h
When I was like, man, what you didn't find out
you're performing them? And soon as I said what, there
was the circle that said Stephen come in and seeing
the birth. So earth Win and Fire is doing the
singing man. Come, I was there. I was there, the

(27:02):
artist a great na. Yeah. So I had a chance
to meet all my heroes man, everybody in the music
business that I always looked up to, and they all
adopted me. And I'm more happy about that than my career,
to tell you the truth, because that's a solo artist.
It's been I you know what I mean. The way
you move still does great for me. I love it.

(27:24):
We can perform that any time. My dad always told me, said, Petrick,
gonna have one song that you can perform to your
doc dances for him. He said, the way it moves
for you. You know, that's a good song to be trapped.
You know, my career has been. I love it. It's
some stuff that I wish could have happened better, but
that's only Margery and definitely happened. But but but you

(27:45):
know what My thing on that album, my record was
I like margat Reader. One of the Knights was the
one for me. One of the nights. Yeah, I did
that with him. You did that with black Out Peas,
Oh will print and yeah, can I ask give me

(28:08):
a close call story? Who did you guys almost work
on and didn't work on? He talked about producing their
record and then well, Kendrick, it was you just didn't
pick the right It just it was just time and
they was at the time they was moving, but he
just came to like what out came. He's like you
freed or new Kendrick, or he want he wanted the

(28:29):
classic organized yes, right before he put out all this
stuff that he sound like right, but let me think,
let me think think. I know, for I know one story,
which is I mean, I'm thinking of another one. But
Jagged Edge like Jagged Jagged As was supposed to be

(28:50):
signed us. I kind of like during that time because
because I loved them twins, them twins to really sing,
and they just come around and he was playing a song,
but I just felt like, um, we had it was
the in the scope deal. We had just kind of
messed up. So instead of like looking at God, looking
at the gift and I'm saying like, Okay, there's another group,
it was more like we just want that that thing
kind of build up in house or whatever. They stuff

(29:11):
was kind of already done. They had everything written. It
was just like one of those you just need to
go in and touch it or whatever, like putting whatever,
get it right, and um and I remember saying I'm
gonna let your man hand out. I should have did that.
I know, I know there's no way to ask this
question and not be whatever. But like as far as

(29:31):
the different family members, because we you know, we we
just got done talking to uh Keshia Jackson and she's
speaking of like, you know, there's the Social Death Crew
and it's organized Noise Crew and there's like so many
crews around and she was speaking speaking of basically like
being a freelance background singer, and she in the beginning

(29:55):
didn't know if motherfucker's would feel a certain way, like
she's saying, when you'all one moment and then over here
sign with them and another like kind of like an
Appollonian Prince Barns thing. But is there a friendly rivalry
at least between the never tell you something, I'm telling
you something off the reel, Atlanta, Jermaine Dufree, Dallas Austin
organized noys, all right, so we because they were already

(30:19):
kind of getting it. Dallas is the king, you know,
saying Dallas was the king. Dallas head, you know what
I'm saying. Not only did he have ABC, he was
produced Boys to Man. He produced Boys to Me in
first album or whatever, like he did Um Madonna, he was.
He was somebody that we were just like we gotta
remember Da. That was that guy like Dallas the guy.
So Jermaine Um was that guy independently closer, closer to

(30:44):
what we can touch. Like he was working with Itchy Bun.
He had a couple Javiera straight Jackers. He had us
his version, his version of Southern Peace, his version of
that what he were doing. I'm just I'm just telling
you how I saw how I saw it. But I

(31:04):
still admired him because his father and where he did
that was I was close to connect. Jermaine was our
He was tangible. Jermaine was friends with KP them like
like we could. So so it was more about we
did when Criss Cross came. He figured it out. He
did his version of a kid. Actually, me and Jamain
kind of grew up backstage together because his dad was
the role manager for Brick. So so so with that

(31:27):
being said, we go in the studio and were in
the studio. I remember the first time we was like
working on outcares, working on some I heard him starting
to do like he started trying to use that person
on Brett Marcus Jefferson wed't work. We Mark, We didn't
worked with Mark about two years after that. Mark me,

(31:48):
I love the death, but he know, I got mad
about that. I got mad even though did he stepped
away from what he was doing for y'all to do that? No,
we didn't step away with just me being like that
Nike of biting us territory to spend territorial because Mark
was fresh Mark. Mark had a new sound he had
he had the big basseline but he had put the
witness on it, and we had waterfalls with him and
we did something this way come it was like was

(32:14):
gonna be big. So it was like, man, he's just
trying to like rip that that sound. But we was wrong,
you know what I'm saying. It's like like we was
right about what he did or whatever. But it wasn't
about shunning him as a It was just more like,
it's other bass players, we can use other people. You
won't be in our sessions or whatever like that. I

(32:37):
didn't really like, you know, this is this is what
we're saying, that's what we Mars know what I'm talking about.
Because he was one hour he would have been and
he was somebody that we would have covered it even more.
But guess what we guess what no, nonin't just we
had Preston, Preston winning got that little effect and put
it on his base. The rest got got a put

(33:00):
it Preston, but go Presstone rays not wait wait wait,
that's to say that sound, it's our sound. So this
is why Preston incorporated that thing into his thing, because
we still do that. That's why when you hear that
that water based any kind of that we're going to

(33:25):
talk about outcares. You had search stuff that you said,
that's outcare. There's no disrespect to home nobody. I just
blew him up. Marcus Jefferson. Can you tell the story
behind liberation man? Please again? But kung Fu is strong.
But once again, I can give you this this part

(33:46):
of it. I felt about it, and then I got
and how I felt about it at that time. The musicianship,
the fact that we don't say we did all of
them at Doppler, okay, making the song together, and we
were doing all of this thing. All of this was
at the same time, right, It's all the same. It's
like the musicians going room in the room, but the

(34:09):
same at that point, I felt like because Big and
Dre like so that album and Liforation was on Stink
on You right, that album is Big and Drey's complete
coming out party like almost could have could have been
their last album. Everything else was forced, I mean not
forced like for the record. Yes, by that time, parties

(34:33):
were free because I think he did Gasoline Dreams on
that album, so like they was. Once you work with
musicians a lot on the album, you figured out that
the sonics are being able to have these sounds, with
these sounds and that sound. So by the time I
got the Liberation, I feel like, um, that's where the poetry.
That's when he was to my um and Spodioti Dopel dishes.
That's why those songs are so special, just because they
produced the hell out the songs. Then they didn't have

(34:55):
to perform as rappers. They went and like like they
boy was actually and then and then the horn section
those brothers, So who's the hook, who's the who came
up with the lyrics between? That's that's we fluted Dallas
to record her vocals for You Got Me. She was

(35:18):
just listening to a rough so I guess Dre left
a rough of like five songs there and Ross was
with us comment and Liberation came Onre and literally I
could say now probably no group or a collective of

(35:38):
producers has ever made us like you know that that
kill Bill Ironside when that ship came one. I remember
Ross came on. He's like, yo, man, how do you
feel about that that last song? And I was like,

(35:59):
I said, yo man, they we we got to come
with some ship man like because and I remember to
that day when the idea of having somewhere clous breaking news,
I don't know, good him up soul food album Mixo

(36:22):
mix so, what's what's up with him? Like my joint
mix so man, Mixo really was a bomb producer that
he did tom producer. He was really he was not
not bum, he was dope. He was dope not he
was super dope and that, and at that point we
weren't really giving those sides up. So it was like

(36:44):
when he did the original we flipped it like like
like so he got like like we might have flipped
like whatever he did. But how did they know mix
So how does Mixo involved? Mixo head did Lumberjacks? He
was yeah, he had did that. Um, this is how
I act, this is how I asked. But these songs
had come out with Cool Joe and Timo with the

(37:07):
Lumberjacks was on outcast heels as far as the next
up and coming two man group in a land of rapping.
So so it was like, fuck, we gotta let's make
Timo group. So y'all. So they were a group first group.
But instead of having another two man group coming after
after Howard two man group, it was better to be like,

(37:28):
instead of having Gifts solo and Silo solo, won't won't
we do a four man group or whatever like? Because
these guys were the with the nucleus that's where the
Goody Mob came from, was cooo and Timo was a man.
So since you kind of brought it up, or at
least pointing the door to the white elephant the room,

(37:50):
you call me right here, you go back. I have
a question, no, no, no no, And I'm trying to
phrase it in a way where it's just not I'm
asking a dumb question. What Obviously you guys are now
legacy producers because you've been doing this for like three decades, um,
and there's always been talking there and that it's been

(38:10):
happening for the last two or three years where you know,
there's obviously Earth Earth Gang is heavily influenced and it's
sorry not to be you know, not spoke to them.
They were like, yo, we were like nine, ten, eleven
years old when this ship is coming out and now
so obviously you're now seeing the results and whatnot. Has

(38:33):
there ever been a conversation about like you guys working
with them, Like just from the current crop of today's producers,
like who oh man, I got a great story Lando
McGhee that that was our intern. He there was his group.
Here was somebody that he wanted to work with, but
he wanted them to be around us so we can

(38:54):
tear them how not to act like us so much,
so we can push them into being a little more real.
I loved them, guys, but I was the thing that
it takes you three albums didn't get you to take
that off. Yeah, you see what happened to Rory. My
cousin DJ working with Rory right now, and Rory was
he was a part of the twenty anniversary. They but
when they put that stick, that's that that that challenge

(39:14):
on you. You the next Outcast. It's just like people
to expect a tenure tenure line of work. Outcast started
with Southern playlists to callec Music, where they were just
proving to New York that they could rhyme, didn't didn't that? That?
Double down on that with a t Yellings aquimen and
they went crazy creatively because the balls were hanging too.
I'm saying, we had plaques on the wall. It was

(39:35):
like it was work. It was right, we was, We
was dropping when Tupac was dropping. We was dropping. When
when whoever the wool change, whoever was It's gonna be
big numbers this week. Fuck Outcast just dropped. It didn't
happen like you wanted words. I always said, Outcast, I
don't know if y'all did roaches and rats? Was that?

(39:56):
Oh man, that was a banker and that was us?
That was why thinke? Oh god, how that was a jewel.
That's a good one. That's only only like YouTube. That's
a good one. It was probably ten years old when
they came around. But whenever dropped. But that was one
of those good like bends up bends of beaming that
we end up using on the drive. But but that

(40:16):
wasn't the original version of it. I'm telling you that
wasn't even the original version that was like the original
that was original vibe, but it was but it was Yeah,
it was a proliament sound. We just learned more about
sampling and like like fun we can't can't use them y'all.
Outcast the Outcast soundtrack game because like the higher learning
jobia phobia and and that was that's how we learned

(40:38):
because like we went in on a but but but
it was stiff. Though it was GrITT and we was
like it was like funk man. We didn't take advantage
of the opportunity, you know what I'm saying. Like even
though we did it, we put out something with big
Rube on it, it was we gotta but it was
like and we got paid good. John Singleton loved us
from that day forth. Every movie he had he called
us to be like Yo, he wanted Sleepy to be

(41:00):
the whole soundtrack the Shaft because he loved he loved
the Sleepy Thing album so much. He flew me to
New York to talk about it. I had to meet Hey,
We're gonna do the whole thing like the Shaft soundtrack,
gonna be sleeping Brown doing the whole shaft things, just
straight score, like the whole you know, just I had
crazy ideas. But yeah, I'm gonna saying l A. Reid.

(41:28):
When the Face got the sound track, When the Face
got the sound track, I swear to guy. When we
got the director of the movie, we got blessing. But
I do understand the politics of Sleepy is not this
is before. I can't wait. I believe I can't wait.
So they was like concerned with Sleepy big enough to kill.
But we knew seventies movies and back then that was

(41:50):
my ship. I was so excited to do it, Like
I wish I could play you to some of the
songs that we worked on. It was insane. You got
the shaft, but that was clever. That was good, good,
It was so all right? Is there truth to the rumor?

(42:14):
My manager told me the story, and I didn't believe it.
That the way that you guys handled the twentieth anniversary concert,
because I know the white elephant in the air was
whether or not Dre would join you, And the whole
thing was like, given fomo and then he'll show up.
So the whole plan was like, don't say nothing to

(42:35):
him and then three hours before he's like, I'm coming.
I'm coming. Is the truth to the rumor. That's how
y'all handle it, like basically, to be real simple with it.
We told the promoters was like, if Andre has to
be here, we don't want to do it. You know
what I'm saying, Like like we want you all to
want us as the Dungeon family without him first, because

(42:59):
because it was just the fact that we were respecting
his wishes, like like saying, I don't want you saying
huh about the show from one music fest. We didn't
didn't do that. It's because um and those guys um,
they was like, man, got big Boy, got sel all right.
Then we started rehearsing. We took it serious or whatever,
and then we got a phone called. It was like yea,

(43:22):
y'all trying to do this without mean before y'all could
have asked plan worked, but the plan worked in the senself.
Just get it all in place, like like get make
sure that we can do this because Big Boy and

(43:43):
See though was killing it already with touring, like the
way they worked was working. So it was like really
trying to get Cool Breeze a shot wish doctor shot.
So it was like the best part was that those
cats took you know, say those cats was getting more
money to perform by the self than to take to
take what they took to perform with us. Then Andre said, man,

(44:03):
you know, I was like, can y'all get some more money,
and like you say, he'll do it. So it's like
it worked out for him. And it's like we had
already got what they said they had, but we said,
but we have to do two minutes. Yeah, and you
know he could be cool. He was cool. Man, he
killed it. Man, he came in and like and and
honestly that brought us a sense of family in the
sense of like we were seriously like we got to

(44:23):
do it without him. I hate it, but a lot
of the ship is jamming without him, but some of
the ship is jamming harder with him. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
We actually did a tour without him and it actually
did great. But that showed that one music fest show. Wow,
that's like that's something more than um. That that's memorable,
that that's something right now, I think we still holding
the vid. I think we still got the video footage
to that. I think we're speaking I think we've got

(44:44):
to put people we're working with. I think we about
try to put that out. So is there a scratch
that you have not itched yet or or are you
satisfied that we haven't scratched it? Yeah, thank you twice.
I don't I don't know it. You know, I'm struggling
right now because you know, the guys want me to

(45:05):
do a new album. But at the same time, yeah,
with that, But at the same time, I've been through
so much with labels, even though this time is us
and that's great, but my heart been broken with so much,
so many damn labels, that it's kind of hard to
getting the energy to really truthfully want to do that.

(45:28):
Like I want to produce people now. I want to
produce more, not to be an artist truthfully, but I'm
gonna do I'm gonna do it. Yeah, man, dude. I
did a session with Joy I wrote a song with her.
This has been a couple of years ago. She came
to my crib. She played me some stuff for yours
bro let that I mean it was jamming. Then it's
still jamming. This was a couple of years back. But

(45:49):
if this sounded really great, man, But I love I
mean if I do, I would love to do some Luke.
I mean me and Ray we've been funking with remember
doing some stuff and it sounds great. I just need
to be twill shot to maybe want to go do it,
you know what I look, I'll say this much and
I gotta close it. But you know, we we've been

(46:12):
doing this for six years. This is this is our
first episode in the Flesh in almost three years. Like
you know, the pandemic basically had us on zoom. So
you know, for the most part, when we do legacy artists,
they're closer to their sixties and seventies, and their memories
real shoddy and they don't recall that song or the

(46:35):
stories are not exciting. I will say that I will
not take for granted how awesome this episode was, and
that you guys really straight up no man, like for real.
You know that it's also a little salty that it
took me like thirty years to have like a real
conversation with you through I'm about to say, well, you'll
ever work too. You know, we see each other and

(46:57):
with each other, but you know what's up basically all right?
But I no, no, no, And people always thinking like, oh,
he's so stay in office. But I think in my mind,
I want my first This is always my dream interaction
where I get it because I look, the first time
I met Q Tip, it was like this episode and
he avoided me for seven years because he's just like
as like a journalist, like like just be regular dude,

(47:20):
Like stop asking me about like my drum patches. You
had to get this out so y'all can be cool. Yeah,
because I think I free people out like in the
in the outside world. This person there's a place for
the nerves of those kind of conversations because I'm very,
very very impressed with the with the wealth of not

(47:40):
as with the whole to happen like this for you
to be impressed, no, bro, like, no, we are for students.
Students were not. We are student and you are like
the face of one of the faces of hip hop hop.
Snoop is like your faces out there that we're proud of,
were proud of. It was again, congratulations on the award.
Thank you Lily. You killed it with the movie. I

(48:02):
love it. I watched it. I told ray Man, we
gotta watch this is insane, beautiful and things, and I
just want to say, man, y'all. Y'all brothers music got
me through like so many tough times, man, Like I'm
a Day one fan to the end, like everyone you
called brothers man like straight up, well that said, ladies

(48:24):
and gentlemen on behalf of the grades. You may die
already talking about the intro, just talking about recording that song.
We just have to be like two minutes. And why
do y'all give these brilliant ass interludes? Like but that's
what make it dope though, because it's like it gives
you just because you want more. The night, we just

(48:46):
ran it backwards. I think Drey was that's when he
was playing with this colemba or whatever. But we took
whatever took now we took I think we took eight
yellion's forward and ran it backwards to make them. Then
we broke them. Happened something that was on the album
that was going forward and ran it backwards at whatever,

(49:08):
and it's so beautiful. Put a piano on and and
then we got peached because her voice was such so
monumental to us at that time. Shout out, shout out
to all of them. Do you think they were having
like a seciance with a whole bunch of candles in
the time, that joint and uh the the hold on
be Strong intro with four point old singing on it. Yeah,

(49:31):
like y'all all y'all intros. Man, that was like textbook.
I was really a community affair. Fun with everybody you
work with. Yeah, that's what happens. Put him in use
however you can use, you know what I mean? Big,
that's went to I feel like big what did the
most cause with janelmo Nel, he kept and kept he
kept that spirit alive even when a little will He
would take him on tour because yeah, not not even

(49:54):
just purple ribbon his touring, when it was out Cans touring.
They would keep these guys alive, even if was just
on the road or whatever. So by doing that, you
keep your skills shop you right. When you learn you
stay and doing music, you're gonna you're gonna write some movies.
You're gonna come up with some refreshing did y'all never
cutting your breakers? On Scar on Bubba Sparks album, I
mean Scar wrote the the hook from Ain't Life Grand?

(50:19):
Like My Twin at one time, like he was totally
we got songs that we haven't released that we're going
to release, so we want to hear well. Ladies and
gentlemen on Behalf. Yeah, definitely on behalf of Sleepy Brown
and our our new since my favorite dude ever go,

(50:45):
Thank you brother on behalf of Unpaid Bill, still on
Sesame Street, fon Tigelow and Sugar Steve. My name is
quest Love. Very grateful for this episode, very classic episode,
and we will see y'all on the What Steve the
next go round. What's Love Supreme is a production of

(51:08):
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.