QLS Classic: Pat Metheny

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, this
is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. It's April, which is
Jazz Appreciation.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Months, so we are running some selections from the qlsrchas
from artists who make some jazziza. This is a twenty
twenty one conversation with none other than Pat Martini. He
is the only artist to win Grammy's in ten different categories,
and he's got twenty of them. This interview explores Pat's
many facets of music and his incredible career accomplishments. From

(00:33):
one of the greatest guitarists in all of music, let
alone jazz.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Please enjoy this QLs classic.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.
I'm your host, christ Love. We have the entire team
Supreme with us right now. There is Sugar Steve ready.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Hello, How you doing?

Speaker 5 (01:01):
Pat Methene? Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
This is awesome for Steve, It's awesome for all of us.
I'm paid Bill, what's up?

Speaker 6 (01:08):
Brother?

Speaker 7 (01:09):
And I feel the same way, Papathe I don't know
what you did right now.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
I'm gonna try to keep it cool, all right? Skipped
it from now? These fonticlar.

Speaker 5 (01:18):
I wear it up, but I'm good man down thirty eight.
We weighed in. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
So yeah, weigh in every day?

Speaker 5 (01:26):
Hell no, that's chaos.

Speaker 8 (01:28):
I only wear it once a month. I was waiting, Sorry,
what's a week? I weigh in every Monday. So every Monday,
I weigh in and then immediately after I wait in.
That's when I have, you know, whatever I wanted to
eat just at the way in, you know what I mean.
So because they give me the rest of the week
to work it off.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
You know, accountability.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
I feel you integrity and accountability. I'm right there with you, like, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
How are you?

Speaker 9 (01:47):
I'm good and I'm negative COVID negative as of yesterday.

Speaker 5 (01:51):
I just wanted word up. But what you had like
or something?

Speaker 6 (01:54):
Huh?

Speaker 5 (01:55):
Where you worry you had? Like above or something.

Speaker 9 (01:56):
I'm trying to get out of town, you know, but
shd I know what I am right now?

Speaker 6 (02:00):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
I had a major bug last week. I thought it
was I thought it was a rap, y'all.

Speaker 5 (02:07):
It's just around man, I had.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
The flu, but it was it was major anyway, Hey.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Guys, Pat Metheni's here.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, oh I got that anyway, Ladies and gentlemen, our
guest today, his reputation speaks for itself. First of all,
we have to start with the mind blowing factoid that
our guest today is the only musician uh to win
Grammys and ten categories. I didn't even know there was

(02:36):
such a thing like. It's we got to make a
collaborative record, so you can get a hip hop one.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
You probably have one on it, Okay, you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Not to mention this being his almost fifth decade in
the professional recording business, his grand total was twenty He's
absolutely one of the most adventurous, dependable, expansive creatives and
cat artist in music. Even without a guitar. Is the
way that his brain thinks. He is a self recleaned

(03:06):
professional improviser, which is very impressive to me because to
deal with the pressure of having to live up to
the moment of your expectations and audience expectations, that's a
lot for me to to weigh in. So I definitely
want to get on that. That's you know, so much
I can say, but you know, let's just get to it.

(03:29):
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome be great Pat mactheney Es question.

Speaker 6 (03:34):
Thanks man, what what a treat for me to be here,
and thanks for inviting me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
Well, we we thank you for coming.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
We were We're also complimenting you on your on your
your your awesome coiff that you've made.

Speaker 6 (03:50):
Coming from feather one of them picks like you.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
That's all you got to say, That's all you got.

Speaker 4 (03:59):
To you know. It's it's weird because.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
I know, oftentimes sort of outsiders tend to pigeonhole musicians
in a particular category, and oftentimes more than that, it's
not necessarily sort of an apt description. I mean, you know,
to call you a jazz musician, I think is rather
limiting because you know, you've done so much more.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
I always wanted to know.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
But the thing is, I'm very familiar with your catalog,
but not familiar with your story or your journey. What
would you necessarily call your your brand of music? Because
you you've literally done everything but the kitchen sink when
it comes to emulating sounds or producing sounds from your

(04:50):
studio to the record stores and to our ears, What
would you call your your genre of music?

Speaker 6 (04:57):
Yeah, that's a question that comes up a lot. I'm
sure for you too. For for for most musicians, you know,
it's it's it's often an issue. I mean, you know,
for me, I wish we had a better name for
for stuff, you know, or or that we didn't have
to have names to me when whenever we start going

(05:19):
down the thing of you know, and and yeah, you're right,
I get it all the time, like you know, what
is what is this? It's usually for me it's usually
a political discussion or a cultural discussion or a dress
code discussion more than a music discussion. And you know,

(05:39):
I feel like there are a couple musicians in that
generation that sort of is just above me, that's sort
of were of course heroes for me, but also kind
of defined a new way of being as a musician.
And I'll just throw out some names. I mean, Herbie
is one, Chick Korea would be an incredible example. This,

(06:03):
Keith Jarrett, Gary Burton. And by that, I mean it's
a bunch of musicians who could play written music with
the New York Philharmonic one night and probably not get
fired and actually be invited back with you know, kudos
all around, and could play the next night with you know,

(06:27):
James Brown, or something, you know, I mean, or or
could play with, you know, a folk singer. I'm kind
of like a little bit what you guys have to do,
you know, on the show too. But I mean, for me,
when I think about that generation of musicians, and there
were a few significant people before them, Train, Charlie Parker,

(06:53):
Art Tatum ll come to mind, it's people who really
advanced what was possible on their instruments, beyond any description
that you might want to impose on it on a
political level or a cultural level, just strictly in terms
of what can you do as a human being with
an instrument in your hand. You know, that to me

(07:15):
is clearly the model. And you know, I mean the
J word, I don't know anybody that likes that really,
And you know, then there's all these other ones. I mean, man,
there was the the F word came along about about
ten years into my thing, and I was like, where

(07:35):
did that one come from? I mean, you know, when
I first, you know, started making records and stuff, that
was the era of hyphens. You know, there was jazz, rock, jazz,
folk folk, this you know, you know, and in a
way that was a little bit descriptive of something. But
I mean, man, by the time I came along, I
was actually a reactionary to you know, distortion and backbeats

(08:01):
and stuff. I mean I was already kind of like,
you know, you know, kind of looking for something past
the Maha issue thing. As much as I love that
that was really more closely connected to, like Tony Williams
or something like that. And you know, so you know,
it's it's hard to to to come up with a name.

(08:22):
So here's what happens. I mean, you direct answer your question.
I'm sitting next to a person on a plane who says, well,
what kind of music do you play? And I kind
of look at them and I go, well, you know,
this person seems like if I say jazz, They're going
to know what I'm talking about, or they're not, or
you know, it's like it's a case by case thing.

(08:43):
But man, I mean I kind of would do anything
to have to avoid having to do that. But of course,
you know, we do live in a world, especially now,
where you know, this whole issue of stratification of our
entire personal lifestyles or something that everybody's cure aiding their
entire existence in very specific ways. Yeah, my thing of

(09:07):
trying to open it up even further. Is the actually
in direct opposition to the culture of the moment.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
So I see, yeah, I was going to say, well, okay,
I do want to start to how you came to music,
but since you already went there, I have to know, okay,
because you were born in a certain time period, and
knowing that you know albums like in a Silent way

(09:37):
or a bitches brew even on the corner, or I mean,
I mean, we can even talk about like the experimental
phase of Coltrane during his last period. You're twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen at the time, which I know based on other

(09:57):
musicians I know of that that's a very that's an
extremely impressionable and influential time in a musician's life where
they take everything in and don't throw it away. Whereas
I would guess if you were older, if you were
in your twenties during that time period, you might have
an eyebrow raised with what the fuck is Miles David's

(10:19):
doing right now? But can you describe what it was
to grow up at least with your young ears, assuming
that your palette was changing by.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
Eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen fifteen, could you.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Describe what it was like to witness kind of first
generation those experimental movements in jazz at such a young age, Like,
how did you take to it? Was there someone to
slap your hand like that's not music?

Speaker 6 (10:50):
Or had they done that, it would have made me
like it even more, which was kind of the kind
of where I was at. No, it's funny. It's really
interesting that that you're mentioning that it kind of coincidentally,
in the past month or so, a really fantastic writer

(11:12):
in the Kansas City area where I am from, wrote
a book kind of. I mean, it's ostensibly about me
from nineteen sixty four to nineteen seventy two, the years
that I, you know, kind of was on the Kansas
City scene, right, and man, she brought back all kinds

(11:33):
of stuff and there's all these people talking about that era,
and man, it just took me right back there, because
generally speaking, I don't look back too much. I'm if
you come to my house, you were talking about Grammys
and you wouldn't see one thing. Man, everyday broken every
day I started zero. You know, I don't want to

(11:54):
see anything about how the gig was last night. I
want to like whatever but today it's new, and so
I don't like to have anything around. I don't like
to think too much about kind of, you know whatever,
from in the past. But this book just took me
right back to exactly what you're talking about. And you know,

(12:16):
I'm talking about Kansas City, but in fact, I grew
up in a rural town about twenty thirty miles away
from Kansas City, where, I mean, man, no one had
any idea what I was interested in at all, and
nor did I really have any frame of reference for it. So,
I mean, I realize now. My way of quantifying things was, oh,

(12:40):
it's on a record. So the record could be The
Beach Boys, it could be Ornette Coleman, it could be
John Phillips SUSA. It could be Porter Wagner and Dolly Parton.
All I knew is I could take it down in
the basement and play it on my parents recently retired
record player, and actually I only had a very few records,

(13:02):
and one of the records that really made an impact
on me was a record my brother brought home four
and more. That was it, Miles and Miles record. It
was you know, it was the Quintet When George Coleman
was was in it, and it's sort of all the
up tempo stuff from the My Funny Valentine Live concert.

(13:24):
And I mean, you know, I do hear the rap
often of people saying, well, you know, you got to
develop a taste for that kind of music and this,
that and the other.

Speaker 5 (13:31):
Thing.

Speaker 6 (13:32):
Man, for me, it was like somebody switched on the
lights and it was mostly Tony to tell you, the
tree it was to me. The sound that, yeah, the
sound of the ride symbol was to me like that
was what was about to happen in the world. And
it was actually.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
And Tony had a really like heavy It was almost
like I would describe it as his approach to his
ride symbol was violent but very beautiful. Just the amount
of tone that the fact that he can get so
much tone out of one symbol, hitting in various ways
like yeah, that always.

Speaker 6 (14:10):
And also he you know, it was just this constantly
changing like set of grooves. It wasn't it was, you know. Then,
of course I had no reference of any of that either,
nor did I understand that they were playing on a
blues or they were playing on the form of There
is No Greater Love. All I knew is what it
sounded like and mostly what it felt like to me.

(14:34):
And at the same time, you know, I picked up
a guitar a year or two before that because, like
me and a billion other people in the world, I
saw the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show. So the
guitar itself was this sort of iconic thing as much
as it was an instrument, and in reference to my

(14:55):
general nature, the one thing my parents didn't want me
to ever do was play electric guitar. So, I mean,
you know, there you go. It's like, you know, it's
kind of I joke around.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Like an electric guitar was like a four letter word,
similar to like Dylan grabbing electric guitar in sixty five.

Speaker 6 (15:13):
Like, oh, way more than that. I mean, you know,
way more than that. I mean it was like I I,
you know, it's more like mom and Dad, I think
I'm going to join the devil worshiping cult down the
street here.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
So it wasn't a matter of like we just want
a less a not noisy instrument in the house.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
It was more like what that guitar represented exactly.

Speaker 5 (15:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
And there were musicians though, right well.

Speaker 6 (15:39):
They were kind of musicians. I mean, actually they were
very musical. My dad especially was a really good trumpet player.
And I have a very important figure in my life.
It's my older brother Mike, five years older than me,
incredible trumpet player at a very young age. And I
started playing trumpet two when I was eight, and hence
the Miles Davis record. You know, trump but was a

(16:00):
thing kind of in our family, like, you know, not
any particular kind of trump but just trumpet. And you know,
we would go see Doc Severnson, who was you know,
come out the Midwest and do concerts or Clark Terry
more about the trumpet part of it. And so yeah,
guitar was this other thing. And once again they were right.

(16:24):
I mean, man, what happened in the few years after
nineteen sixty four, sixty five, sixty six with people with
guitars strapped around their necks was their worst fear come
to life by ten thousand percent. You know what's weird
in my case, though, is that that Miles moment put
me on this whole other direction. And this is more

(16:45):
in response to your question, I didn't think about, like, oh,
ornett is really some wacky, far out thing that people
were getting into fistfights in front of the bandstand about
and Wes Montgomery, Oh he's commercial because he's playing going
out of My Head. And you know, I just had no,

(17:08):
first of all, no interest in that, in that aspect
of it. I was just like, man, what are they playing?
And how are they playing that? And what do I
need to know in order to understand this? Like what
is this?

Speaker 3 (17:22):
And did you know did you understand at at early
age that maybe jazz was sort of like an intellectuals
music or an intellectual game, like did you choose jazz
because like all of your other friends are trying to
learn Smoke on the water Riff and you're like, well,

(17:42):
I'm learning Wes Montgomery Like.

Speaker 6 (17:47):
I mean, you know, again, I have to say where
I would where I grew up, man, I mean yeah,
I was. I was completely non aligned with any person
my own age. You know, I just had nothing to
do with anybody, nor was I particularly interested what anybody
thought about anything, because I was really in them. Well,

(18:13):
I think most people that are going to deal with
this language at some point along the way, they had
to spend four or five years, twelve hours a day alone.
It's you know, it's sort of like, you know, I
want to give a speech in you know, Greek to
a bunch of nuclear physicists. You know, first of all,
I have to learn Greek, and then I got to

(18:34):
learn about nuclear physics, you know. I mean, it's it's
not something that's going to happen overnight. You know. The
benefit for me, though, was the Kansas City thing where
I just happened to kind of chronologically come along at
a time where at a very young age, I was
able to start working with people who were a lot
better than me. And I mean, I don't know about you,

(18:56):
but that's the way you learn is to be And
I always tell people try to be the worst person
in every band you're in, or at least be around
musicians who you're going to learn some stuff from, because
that's how it works.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
You know, you got to be the least knowledgeable person
in your circle.

Speaker 9 (19:14):
So by the time you got in your first band,
what was your knowledge and.

Speaker 6 (19:18):
Where were you well, I mean, you know, I did
have my year or so of you know, kind of
messing around with you know, kind of I guess we
could say rock bands or whatever, and but you know,
I immediately took it very seriously to the point of concern.
I would say of everybody. You know, I mean the

(19:41):
other analogy joke I always make, and it's I think
a valid one. You know, I've got three kids, and
you know, as much as there had been resistance to
me playing the guitar, the thought of me spending twelve
or thirteen hours a day down in the basement, you know,
learning who knew what was a little bit like for
right now. If one of my kids said to me, Dad,

(20:04):
I'm going to become a professional video game player, you know,
I would say like, no, you're not. You can't do that. Yeah, yeah,
I mean exactly so. But it was like that to them.
I was like, yeah, I'm going to you know, learn
you know this McCoy tyner solo on Reaching fourth and
I'm going to really check out Roy Haynes. You know tonight, Mom.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
So you were you were practiced twelve hours a day?

Speaker 6 (20:31):
Oh, I was really. I was really finally.

Speaker 4 (20:36):
Up to my expectations.

Speaker 6 (20:38):
I get up at four o'clock in the morning almost
every day.

Speaker 5 (20:42):
Now, you know.

Speaker 6 (20:43):
It's you know, to me, music is really hard. I
know there's people that are really talented and stuff, and
I I really I cautioned people about their talent because
I kind of don't really believe that much in talent,
you know, I'm more about you know, it's hard. I
don't care how talented you are. You gotta you gotta

(21:05):
work on it.

Speaker 7 (21:06):
Why why are the early days were you pushed towards
the hollow body because seems like if you earn rock bands,
it's a weird choice for rock bands, right, I mean
it was because of West Montgomery, or was just because
that was the first guitar you had the Gibs in the.

Speaker 6 (21:20):
Yeah, good question. I mean, so with my parents, you know,
when I finally like convinced them that I was really
I really wanted to get a guitar, my Christmas present
one year was not a guitar. It was permission to
buy a guitar with my own money that I earned.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
You got permission, all right, I got permission.

Speaker 6 (21:45):
So it just happened that the you know, I earned
sixty dollars doing I had a little back. Yeah, I
had a little job and looked in the Kansas City
Star and there was a Gibson guitar for sixty dollars.
It didn't even say what kind, just Gibson guitar, and
it was an Es one forty, which is this small
hollow body And honestly I didn't, you know, to me,

(22:08):
it was like Gibson and it was electric and you know, cool,
and so I didn't really care with solid body hollow body,
and that would have been before I heard four and more. Interesting.
So once I heard four and more, then I began
the thing that we all do of, like, you know, okay,

(22:30):
who are the other trumpet players? Who are the other
bass player that I need to know? And then, of
course guitar. I was already holding it in my hand,
and in fact, the father of a friend of my
brother said, you know, you should check out Wes Montgomery
and he played me a record and man, that was
it for me. And I was like, well, I got
this hollow body already.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
So I'm like, you know, in the perfect ballpark the
guitar shows you you can choose the guitar.

Speaker 6 (22:57):
Well yeah, and then actually funny thing happened. Not funny,
it was tragic.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
At the time.

Speaker 6 (23:04):
My mom is from Wisconsin and back in those days,
you the only way to get to Wisconsin from Kansas
City was an airline called Ozark Airlines, and you would
stop it like des Moines cedar rapids, you know, Debuque
like you'd stop like six places along the way before
going to Manitauc where she was from. And when we

(23:25):
got to manage Walc, I went to get my guitar
and it was just pieces would shattered, not only know,
maybe two months so it was awful. And but Ozark
Airlines gave me I think one hundred dollars you know,
in repayment for it. And that's when I got my
Yes one seventy five, which was the guitar that I

(23:49):
still play most of the time. I've had it all
these years.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
I was going to say to you that I want
to thank you because I thought, I mean, we've done
five years of five years of shows, and you know,
we've had every virtuoso musician that you could think of
on the show, and nothing makes them happier than debunking

(24:14):
my theory that perfect practice makes perfect. And you know
this this goes a long time ago. I had met
saxophonist David Murray and I would ask David like, yo,
like you know, he mentioned something like, well, you know,
I took a nap at two in the morning and

(24:35):
then I got up at six to practice my scales
and I'm like, wait a minute, you practice your scales
at six in the morning. He's like, yeah, every day
I wake up like five, six in the morning, do
my scales. For about four hours, I do breakfast and
da da da da, Then I do another five hours.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
We're in my.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Tonal thing, and I'm like, wait a minute, how many
hours a day do you practice? And he's kicking it,
like seventy He's like sometimes ten eleven hours.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
I'm like to this day. He's like, yes, to this day.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
And then like his gigging starts, you know, after that
eleven hours, and you know, I kind of stuck to
that sort of that religious and that was like back
in eighty seven eighty eight, and like you know, you
know it's doing.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Like a master class with him or something.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
But then you know, I would ask every musician that
I knew, like how often do you practice? And they'd
be like whatever, like two three at the most. It
was making me think that that whole thing was just
a myth, like the idea of the musician. Ernie Issley
has a similar story about when when Jimmy Hendricks used

(25:39):
to live with the Isisley brothers over in Jersey, how
Jimmy would wake up every morning to practice his scales
four point thirty five in the morning, and Ernie would
just sit in the closet and watch Jimmy for like
two to three hours practicing these scales.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
And then that's basically how.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
You known, in my opinion, you know, kind of earned
that baton from Jimmy Hendricks. But yeah, I just want
to thank you for at least not making me feel foolish,
because every time I ask about practice or on the show,
every guest is like whatever.

Speaker 6 (26:15):
So you know, it's an interesting thing because I think
every musician has a wildly different path, as we all
do as individuals from everybody else. I mean, everybody's kind
of got their own physical thing and their own whatever
I mean, and being a musician also is so unique
to each person. I mean, what this guy wants to do,

(26:37):
what that guy? I mean, everybody's got their own path.
And you know, at the same time, I think that
like I'm sure you know, we've both known people who
were just at very young age is incredibly good, like
they could just kind of do it, and man, that's
a tough that's like it's almost one of the worst things.

(27:00):
I think that can happen.

Speaker 10 (27:01):
To something handicapped to be like a super person because
it throws you off, you know, it gives you, it
gives you kind of the wrong idea.

Speaker 6 (27:12):
And I mean a lot of people can skate maybe
their entire career that way. But you know, to me,
the guys that I you know, maybe that list of
names that I read off, like Gary Burton's a great
example of this. He I think was in fact, I'm
sure he was like this ridiculous prodigy guy, but he

(27:32):
also took it really seriously. And I don't know that
his version of practicing would be what you and I
would talk about as practicing. But you know, I mean
there are people who I think I mean Mike Brecker,
you know, he could he I remember seeing him near
the end of his life and he was like quiet,

(27:53):
and he was like practicing, you know. I mean, you know,
it's like it. I think it can show up in
a lot of different forms. I will add in in
my case, I don't ever feel like I'm practicing. I
always feel like I'm just playing. And when I practice,
I take a tune that maybe I don't know as
well as I wish I did. And you know, I
just start playing it, and I try to play it fast.

(28:15):
I try to play it slow. I try to play
it in all twelve keys. I try to really know
what makes that tune that tune. And that's hard. I mean,
you know, I can still take tunes that I've been
playing all these years and play them, and as I'm
playing them, I'm discovering first of all, what I can
do and what I can't do, and what I work

(28:37):
on is what I can't do. It's like, I don't
do what I can do. I work on what I
can't do. So if I start hearing something and I
can't really do that, it's like, Okay, I need to
work on that, and I'm less. Times I hear people
and they're practicing, but they're just playing stuff they can
already play. I try to play what I can't play.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Is that what the improvising is working on.

Speaker 6 (29:02):
Worms there By the way we're improvising right now, and
we're using our language. We all have a relationship to
English that allows us to just do our thing without
really worrying too much about verbs and nouns and pronouns,
you know, or what your tongue is doing while you're
you're just doing it. You're just doing We're improvising, And

(29:24):
I mean that's essentially you know what what this thing is.
You know, being a musician in this realm is to
be able to just talk about whatever you want to
talk about and not get hung up with the mechanics
of it.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Let me ask for okay, So I think I've shared
this story before. George Clinton once famously joked, you know,
Prince Prince often had a big reputation for overpracticing. You
know again that ten am, I'll find you. If you're late,
We're going to do the same riff five hours in

(30:01):
a row until we get it right, that sort of thing.
And George Clinton used to tease that Prince is the
only cat that he knew that could practice his spontaneity.
And you know, I know how big you are on improvisation,
And sometimes even when I'm rehearsing with my guys, sometimes

(30:22):
I want to save that energy for the stage.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
Like I know that there's a certain.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
Type of energy and excitement that happens at our shows,
in particular that I often worry we might give away
in soundcheck, you know, and I kind of want to, like, all.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
Right, all right, save it for the show. Save that
energy for a show, don't don't go there.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
And get that right, and we shoot the ship before
the show, save it for the show, and you know, well,
you're you're actually I'm wondering, Okay. So when I spoke
to uh when we did Bobby McFerrin on the show,
you know, he said that, you know, that's his greatest thrill, like,
you know, not to do too much beforehand, but like

(31:05):
he considers that I'm practicing on the stage. But because
I know you're so big into improvisation and whatnot, do
you ever worry about overpracticing before you even get to.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
Present it to whatever show you're doing that night.

Speaker 6 (31:25):
You know, there are a couple of cliches that are
really effective, really useful, and I found it be really true,
and that one about you know, luck or whatever. Success
is where prepar preparation meets opportunity. To me, that's like
a key one. And the way that applies to this

(31:47):
discussion is, you know, knowing kind of as much as
I can know about the possibilities of what a situation
might entail. I mean that may be the band and
the music, the you know whatever, there's infinite variations as
much as I can be prepared for those things, the

(32:09):
more fun I'm going to have. And so for me,
the goal in fact is, I mean spontaneity, improvisation, professional improviser.
You know, we're kind of circling around the job description
in a way, and what that involves for me then
is to be really ready. I mean, I'm like, you know,

(32:31):
kind of you know, I really strongly enforce that sound
checks are I don't want to hear anybody really try
to play anything, and I'm like the save it for
the gig cham like do not do not jam, do
not do anything, you know, like just make sure and

(32:56):
kind of I have I usually come up with like
one section of something that we can play that we
can play it for twenty minutes, because it can take
a while for this kind of music to settle into
the hall, and you know, I want to give the
sound guy a chance to do his best too. And
there's a way for me of improvising where it's sort

(33:17):
of like I'm going to just kind of hang in
the zone of the fundamentals that it's kind of improvising,
but I don't really have to think about it too much,
And there's a kind of warming up because the physical
thing of playing for me is I could say almost challenging.
I mean, I'm not a natural guitar player in a

(33:38):
lot of ways, so I really do have to warm
up for a couple hours, and during that period of time,
I'm trying not to play any quote unquote music. But
I have kind of developed these things where I can
sort of invent they almost like unfold on themselves. Like
I'll start in a key and then I'll say, Okay,

(34:00):
now I'm going to take that and I'm going to
move it through uh you know, the cycle of fifths
backwards or something like that. So I'm not really thinking,
I'm not thinking about it. I'm just doing something that's
going to get the mechanics working, that's also doing the
whatever those brain connections are that you want to have
where you have an idea and you can get to

(34:23):
it within you know, sub millisecond, uh you know response time.
And you know. The best thing for me too, also
is if I can go all day without talking and
really I don't eat before a gig, I really get
into like this thing because for me, the gig is
is the that's church, you know, that's the destination. I know,

(34:45):
records are a thing, you know, and there were all
those years like, Okay, you got to go out on
the road to promote your record, and I'm like, really,
I to me, it's like, you make a record, so
when you show up in Peoria, somebody might come to
the gig because they've heard your name, you know.

Speaker 5 (35:00):
To me, it was.

Speaker 6 (35:01):
Always the records where they add to get people to
come to the gig, because the gig is it. And
that's still the case for me, which kind of fits
right now in the world of gigs and T shirts,
you know, because that's really what we are, right so,
you know, and I you know, I did kind of
get into making records there, you know. I mean I

(35:21):
got better at it, I think, and took it a
lot more seriously as time went on. But to me,
the gig is that's it. You know, it's all headed
for the gigs. So if I can really, you know,
do the things that I know will help me get
ready for that moment, and then that moment does take
on this sort of significance as this is what it's

(35:45):
all been leading to, you know. I mean from the
time I heard four and more, you know, it's like
everything has been leading to this moment, and also this
may be the last time I ever play, And in fact,
the last time I ever played was Auckland, New Zealand,
the first week of March last year. Yeah, you know,
I didn't know at that time. Gee, that was the

(36:05):
last time I'm going to play for a year and
a half. So I'm kind of glad I play like
that because that was it.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah, so you've not been on a stage since and
now got.

Speaker 6 (36:16):
Some gigs coming up? Man, I hope.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
How is this the longest that you went concurrently without
being on stage.

Speaker 6 (36:23):
This is the longest I've been in one place since
high school. It's the first time I've bought out a
window and seen you know, spring, summer, fall, winter, spring,
summer from one point of view, and I have to
say it's been fantastic. I've really enjoyed that. And the
best part for me that the headline is nobody in

(36:44):
my immediate circle died, you know, and so many of
people in our community have been hit so hard. I
mean not to mention just the new gig thing, but
I mean, man, I mean, you and I both know
a bunch of people who are not here right now.
You should be because of this stuff. So yeah, it's
been rough in that respect, but you know, at this

(37:06):
point in life, I've done a lot of gigs, so
that's great. And also it's kind of been interesting for
me to kind of look out the window a bit.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
The first time I think I saw your name and
credits was on this Joni Mitchell album called Shadows and
Light nineteen eighty. It's a live album from a tour
that you did with Jocko. I believe Pastorius was in
that band as well, Yes, and Joony obviously. Can you
tell us any memories of that time period playing with
Jocko and Joni and that tour.

Speaker 6 (37:35):
Well, you know that, I mean, Jocko was like, you know,
one of my closest friends, years before anybody knew who
either one of us were, and you know, our careers
or whatever you want to call it, parallel to each
other chronologically in a pretty significant way. In fact, before

(37:57):
years before the Jony thing, Jocko it on my first record.
He and I both kind of made our recording debuts
together without even knowing that's what we were doing. We
thought we were rehearsing with Paul Blaye, one of the
greatest piano players.

Speaker 4 (38:12):
Ever, I was going to say, how did that happen?

Speaker 3 (38:14):
You accidentally made a record with zachopistor is not knowing it?

Speaker 6 (38:22):
Well, you know, Paul was a trip I don't you know,
I don't know how much y'all know about.

Speaker 4 (38:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
That was my next question was if you could tell
our viewers about Paul.

Speaker 6 (38:31):
Well, Paul changed music a couple of times.

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Is it liar Blaye Blaye?

Speaker 6 (38:37):
And I mean you know Carla Blay.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
Yeah, yeah, well he was married.

Speaker 5 (38:41):
That is why.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Oh okay, see I have a whole relationship with Carla
Blay is.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
Oh yeah, hip hop samples but good.

Speaker 6 (38:48):
Yeah, well Paul was. I mean, you know, I could
talk for Paul about Paul for forty five minutes, so
I'll just leave it, you know. I mean, if you
ever listened to a record Footloose, which was made in
the early sixties, Pete Laroca playing drums, Swallow playing bass,
I mean that changed everything. There's a solo that Paul

(39:09):
plays on a Sonny Rollins record where he called where
he plays with Sonny and Coleman Hawkins and they play
all the things you are and Paul solo on that
like just revolutionized everything. And you can even go back
to like nineteen fifty six. So Paul was a heavy
cat and also unusual person. So you know, we were

(39:33):
asked to go to this rehearsal studio we thought, which
was a recording studio actually, and there were mics and stuff,
but you know, we were both pretty green, to tell
you the truth. And so we were playing and Paul
had not really let us improvise much. We would just
play the heads over and over again to all these
hip Carlo Blay tunes and some more net tunes, and

(39:56):
then suddenly we were like playing and I was like, wow,
this is great, but the John Jaco sounds fantastic on
this record. Paul that the night before had heard some
rock band and had decided that I should play through
a stack of marshals, and he'd rented a wah wah pedal,
a Morley wah wah pedal. Guitar player would it's like

(40:20):
a fate worse than death, you know, And even with
a good wah wah pedal, that was not really where
I was at particularly right then. So basically you hear
Jocko sounding good on that record, and then kind of
off in the distance heied, and that's me. But yeah,
So that was nineteen seventy four, and then we made

(40:43):
Bright Seize Life my record in nineteen seventy five and
we played a lot. Is that that trio with Bob Moses,
the Bright Size Life trio, you know, And that's so
that's several years before the Jony thing. And in the meantime,
so after Bryce Eie's Life, Jocko became Jocko because at
the time I did Bryce Eie's Life, I had to like,

(41:05):
why would you want to use so and so and
so and so when you've got this what's that bass
player's name that you use? I was like, yeah, Gary,
you're probably right we should do and Moses was like,
you're crazy if you don't use Jocko, you know. So
that was the band for Bryceie's Life. And then Jocko
joined Weather Report shortly after that, and honestly, he and
I went in very, very different directions in terms of lifestyle.

(41:30):
Jocko was the only guy I'd ever known, you know,
kind of around that time who was as straight as
I was. And you know, the first time I saw
him with Joe's Amnell, that was a different dude. And
he remained a different dude, and we were always tight,
and you know, I had gone different directions, but he

(41:50):
called me in the middle of the night one night
and said, I'm going to put together a string band
for Jonie. I want you to be in it. I'm like, okay, cool,
And so it was going to be me and Joni
and Jocko and Alex Akunya playing hand percussion, I think,
and then I you know, I saw I'm like, wow,

(42:10):
this is a different level because at that point I
was still like driving around in the van. I put
like one hundred and fifty thousand miles or something on
a van with my band where we would play, you know,
every two hundred dollars gig. We could play for three
years in there. And so suddenly it's like lear Jets
and you know, it's a real culture shock, you know,

(42:31):
for me. But you know, it was an interesting experience.
The rest of the band was Mike Brecker uh and
Don Olias and then you know, Joni had just gotten
an electric guitar for the first time and had like
nine George Benson model and the guitars all tuned different

(42:53):
and it was you know, it was an interesting experience. Okay,
the best part was here in Joni at the end
when she would do a couple tunes solo, because honestly,
to me, you know, we it did you know, she
didn't need that, you know, she was she was Joni,

(43:15):
you know. And and to me, her best thing was
always sitting there and playing the guitar or the piano
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
You know, So you didn't like her for a raison
to the jazz world that you know, like the stuff
she did with me.

Speaker 6 (43:29):
In terms of phrasing, she's she's incredible, man, you know,
I mean to me, there there are you know again
we're back to this. How like what are we going
to talk about in terms of style? You know? I mean, man,
you know there are some singers like there's some I mean,
Dolly Pardon man, I mean you want to talk about phrasing,

(43:50):
or Dion Warwick or you know. I mean to me,
it's like yeah, and and Billy Holliday. You know, there's
a Karen Carpenter. You know. To me that I think
about people who can really make the melody be the malady,
you know, And I'm not thinking, oh, well, now she's
she's folk, jazz, country. You know, it's just music, you know,

(44:11):
and you know, singers in general. I think we all
listen to to learn from how to how to do
that that thing, you know, and Johnny is amazing, you know,
she's incredible.

Speaker 8 (44:26):
I want to ask you about just your working relationship
with Alau Mays, you know, who passed, you know, recently.
He was just somebody that you know, you just seem
to have just an amazing creative partnership with. Uh, how
did you guys meet and what was what's your story
with him?

Speaker 6 (44:41):
Man, it's tough now because it's like, God, there's he said,
there's Lyle, and there's Charlie, Mike Brecker, you know, Billy Higgins,
I mentioned, Dewey Redman. I mean, man, these are the guys.
I mean, not only did we live this musical life
together and each one is so deep and rich and
very they were like I mean, man, Lyle and I

(45:02):
grew up together literally, I mean, you know, we knew
each other when we were you know, basically just out
of being teenagers. And you know, it's just so far
beyond what I can even say, you know. I mean,
the good thing is that there's those records, and those
records say a lot, you know, and yeah, it's tough man.

(45:24):
And then I think about like Roy Haynes, who's ninety.

Speaker 9 (45:27):
So that's what I was about to ask you about,
because I was given the assignment by my father, who's
a student of Roy Haynes, to ask you about that relationship.
And you already said earlier that you were listening to
Roy when you were a young kid. So the fact
that you guys did a record together, like, can you yeah,
talk about it?

Speaker 6 (45:43):
Please? Man, I could talk about Roy for the whole time.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
To me that you know, he's still good, he's still amazing,
he's still killing.

Speaker 6 (45:53):
He's killing and yeah, I mean it's been now, I
think a couple of years since I usually try to
go down during his birthday and play at the Blue
Note with him. I think the last time I did it,
he had turned ninety three, so he must be ninety
five or something. It's still playing. Oh my man. You
know to me that the drum thing is central and

(46:17):
drummers love to hear me say this, but it's the truth.
Whoever the drummer is is the leader. It doesn't matter
whose name is on the marquee. It's the drummer's band.
And I have been so lucky to play starting in
Kansas City with some of the greatest drummers of this
period of time. And you know, to me, the Roy

(46:40):
thing as it sort of unfolded throughout the fifties, I
always point to We three this it's a famous record
with Roy and Phineas Newborn and Paul Chambers. To me
that one, You know, the sound of Roy is the
sound of modern drumming. I mean, to this day when
I play with Roy, that's it. That's it, that's that's

(47:04):
in a cole of everything.

Speaker 4 (47:05):
You just listen to this.

Speaker 6 (47:07):
This is great.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Yeah, let me let me ask for you.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
And I know this might be blasphemous, being as though
you know you've done sort of long term work with
with your band well In and now the Pat mctheny group,
But who would be kind of your all star lineup?
Like if I were to sign you and say, okay,
in twenty twenty two, you're going to go out and
tour the world. You get to put your all star

(47:33):
lineup together. Who's on drums, who's on keys, Who's who's
uh on bass, who's on percussion?

Speaker 6 (47:41):
You know? I mean, honestly, I know that my thing
is kind of there's like these partisan things like, oh well,
you know, it's really man, it's just the group. You
got to check out the group, so that other stuff,
you know, that's really the only cool stuff all areas now.
Or you got to check out the tree, you know.
I mean, the thing from my standpoint is that it's

(48:04):
not divided, and I have to take some responsibility for
that because I kind of got maybe too good at
sort of like, Okay, this is the Patmatheni group, and
this is the Patmathini Trio, and this is it. And
you know, people didn't do that back then. You know,
that was kind of a new thing to have all

(48:25):
these different bands and sort of present yourselves in different ways.
For me, they're all the Pat Metheny group because they
all acted the same way. It was. You know, I'm
going to write ninety percent of the notes we're gonna play,
and we're gonna rehearse and we're gonna you know, it's
like it didn't really matter if you look and this
is a cop out answer to your exact question, if

(48:47):
you look at the list of names of people that
I have played with, those are my favorite musicians. And
you know, but I include in that Kenny Garrett, Josh Redman,
you know, Mike Brecker, you know those guys, Herbie. You know,
I've been really lucky to be able to say. You know, man,

(49:07):
I you know, I just did a due ad tour
with Ron Carter. Man. I mean it's like, you know,
you know, those guys are my heroes, man, and everybody
I play with, including the new cast. Joe Dyson is
my hero right now. You know, he's a new drummer
on the scene from New Orleans. Man, this guy is
everything I'm talking about, you know, So you know it's

(49:32):
like to me, to me, it's one, you know, my thing.
I see it as one thing, and you know, I'm
just glad to be a part of all of it. Man,
I just feel lucky to be in it, you know.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
Only because you mentioned it, I kind of have to
go there. Okay. So I don't even know if you're
aware that.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
We were.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
We were quasi label meets.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
I mean, your period of Geffen I think ended right
when I started with Geffen, which instantly meant you know,
that first year rating the closet was just awesome. Like
you know, it's like your first ben shopping is hiding
in the going in the closet of your record label
and taking all the CDs.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
So that said, you mentioned zero tolerance for Silence.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Okay, so from from my point of view, definitely coming
from a standpoint of hip hop, which I think our
ears are built way different than anyone else. For me,
that album was is always my go to record because
of your shrill noises, you know, like it's literally just

(50:43):
an entire album of textures and solo noises that can
lead to other ideas. So whereas you know, of course,
you know, I guess if you're talking about your cannon
for the most part, you know, maybe zero.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
Talents for Silence would be kind of considered.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
You're on the corner like an album that was immediately
met with indifference and anger from the jazz guard whoever,
Robert Christa Gower, whoever, the critic of the moment is.
But for you though, I mean, now that decades have passed,
like what is your relationship? What was your feeling with

(51:27):
the record when you turned it in and you know,
three decades after the fact, what is your your feelings
on that? Because there was also speculation that you pulled
to Neil Young. Neil Young also famously wanted to get
off Geffen and you know, I'm giving you.

Speaker 6 (51:47):
That kind of I have to say I rarely get
pissed off and stuff at.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
That because it was like, oh, they thought, you see,
you heard the rumors of that.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
You throwaware.

Speaker 6 (51:57):
I mean, there was some guy who wrote something to
that effect and it's some magazine and.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
That was only because Neil Young did it with trans
and people thought, you know, like what, Neil Young's doing
a craft work record. Now he's trying to get off
the label, like that sort of thing. Or so, yeah,
what were your feelings on its reception and time since then?

Speaker 6 (52:18):
You know my feelings about that well, and also have
to preface it. And I don't know about you, but
most it seems like many, if not most musicians never
ever listen to their own records ever again after they're
finally mastered, after they've heard it for six months, and
have a jest about whether it should be point two

(52:39):
dB at niney K. You know all that stuff that
we all do.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
You know, you don't listen to see if it's aged.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Well, Like, I don't like listening to my records personally,
but when I'm making a new record, I will go
back to the other roots records to see it is
his age well or not, So yeah, maybe.

Speaker 6 (52:58):
I should try that sometimes. I mean no, I mean,
you know, every now and then, though I do, I
have to say, I hear something and I don't recognize
that it's me, and usually I go, well, that sounds
pretty good. Who's that. Scribe It's rare that I hear
something and I go, what is that? Oh my god,

(53:21):
that's me. So, you know, generally speaking, I would say,
you know, my sense is that, like I was saying before,
it's this one long story with these different chapters that
represented different periods, but it's this continuous thing. But specific
to what you're talking about here, I mean that that

(53:41):
was a period for me. You know, as I've referenced
a couple of times, I grew up in a kind
of open spaces kind of environment. You know, there were
lots of trees and then a field and then another tree.
So so kind of like the idea of spaciousness was
something that was built into my thing, and I carry

(54:06):
it with me now. I mean, I've got this seventeen
years of quiet that I can always go to. But
my life after the time I left Missouri was like man, intense, dense,
packed and it's been packed ever since. I mean, you know,
I mean, I'm on the road like more than most

(54:27):
people live in New York City, you know, international family,
It's an intense life and the natural thing for me,
and it maybe hit a pinnacle around that time was
the record Secret Story, which was done just at the
same time basically as Zero Tolerance. And the idea that

(54:47):
I had at that moment in time was I had
lots of these sort of images of things that had
open canvas, and I wanted to fill up the entire canvas.
Secret Story does that, and Zero Tolerance for Silence does
that in a different way. And that's kind of my
sense of it. There was a really great description given

(55:12):
to me by a and around the time of those
two records, and said, you know, Secret Story is like
a painting and there's a river in the painting and
it's beautiful. Yeah, that's right, that's the river. And that's
kind of the way I see it too. I didn't
know it, but yeah.

Speaker 5 (55:32):
She was right.

Speaker 4 (55:37):
I just thought about something.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
You know, at the time, in the first part of
your career, you were on em Records as well, Yeah,
which is a highly trusted label. However, you made the
move to Geffen, and it's almost like I almost feel
like we're in the same boat, because if you're a
non rocket at often questions I got was like, why

(56:03):
even risk it going to a label and really not
built to promote you or whatnot? So what was what
was the unusual choice of going to Geffen Records?

Speaker 6 (56:17):
Well, you know, honestly, you're right. I started on ECM.
I did eleven records at ECM.

Speaker 8 (56:24):
Which Travels I really loved. I wanted to say Travels.
I love this that album, man, beautiful record one.

Speaker 6 (56:30):
That I still you know, if people want one record
of that era, I say get Travels because that's got
a lot of information on it. But you know, after
my eleven records or the ECM, they were all done
in the classic form. You get two days record, a
data mix. By however it came out, that's your record,

(56:52):
and that's it. And I mean, you know, that's a
viable way to make music. I mean, you know I
would still make a record like that now for a
certain kind of thing. You're doing a documentary, you're doing
a documentary record. You're getting a bunch of guys, You've
got some tunes, you're going to play him a couple
of times, you're going to pick the best take, maybe
do an edit. We didn't do fixes back then, maybe

(57:12):
one or two barely, but you know, and that's it.
And you know, I did my best under those, you know, auspices,
and I'm to this day grateful to have had the
chance to be on that label during an incredibly fertile
period for that label. I mean, it was still kind

(57:32):
of emerging. I mean I was within the first hundred
ECM records.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
A couple of times, I think I can I interject,
and I don't want to interrupt the answer to the
why I go to Geffrine question, But since we're right
here at ECM and I just wanted for our listeners
to hear the name Manfred Iiker, so can you tell
us a little bit about him. He's the owner and
producer of the label and thousands of records.

Speaker 6 (57:58):
Yeah, yeah, he's he's the guy that to this day,
I mean, he's you know, I was in that first
hundred records. I think they're up close to three thousand now,
and honestly, everybody should hear about two thousand and six
hundred of them.

Speaker 5 (58:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (58:13):
I really know how to make records.

Speaker 5 (58:15):
Yeah, and he.

Speaker 6 (58:16):
And I, honestly we never got along. I was a
snotty little kid, and I thought I knew all kinds
of stuff that I probably didn't know. But you know,
my snottiness ended up also being kind of a super
charged engine to do a lot of stuff that probably
was impossible to do that somehow I did, you know,

(58:37):
And I'm just here, I am admitting on air that
I was super snotty. Man. That's what.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
Thank you very much, And we're going to go back
to that, yeah, exclusive, just.

Speaker 6 (58:50):
To finish up the gaff and thing, because ycause it is.
It is kind of an interesting thing. So at the time,
you know, this was nineteen eighty four, I had, you know,
had you know, a kind of success that honestly, I
nobody was more surprised than me that we were not
selling eight hundred, nine hundred records, travels and of you know,

(59:14):
you know, the records of that era, including New Chautauqua,
you know, which was a solo guitar record. They were
selling hundreds of thousands of records. They were on the
pop charts, and it wasn't like I was trying to
do that. The tunes were still fifteen minutes long. If
just we just kind of were touring constantly, and there

(59:34):
were radio stations around that time that would actually play
twelve minute tracks mixed in with Fleetwood, Mac or whatever
else was happening. I mean, there was a bunch of
stuff in the culture that allowed that to happen. And
so I had a certain I guess viability within the

(59:54):
recording industry world that caused the moment that me leaving EC.
I am a lot of interest amongst people, and you know,
I'm very fortunate that from the very beginning, I've been
with one agency, Ted Curland in Boston. We've been together
I don't know, forty whatever years now, and Ted, Yeah,

(01:00:17):
Ted got the message and and sort of did a
thing where he got a bunch of companies interested. I
was able to start my own company, which since then
we've licensed to all the record companies. I owned everything
from post ECM on thanks to Ted.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
Oh wow.

Speaker 6 (01:00:35):
And among the suitors of that period, David Geffen had
just started his own company and he only had a
few artists, John Lennon and you know Sharer and Jennifer Yeah.
I mean, there were just a few, and hired a
guy Donna. Summer he had hired Gary gersh who's a

(01:01:00):
guy who I had known from the work with that
I had done just prior to that with David Bowie
ed Em I signed by the way, Yes, yeah exactly,
and Gary came to Geffen as one of the guys.
Gary sort of made a case like, you know this
guy me, it's nobody knows what it is. He's got

(01:01:22):
a following and you know, we should sign him. And
David I said, can I meet with David Geffen? Wow?
They arranged it like sure. So I had lunch with
David Geffen and he was like, well, it sounds like
you've got a thing going on. We'd like to have
you on the label. And they never I think I
ever heard that Jay were there. You know. They were

(01:01:44):
just like, this is a band kind of like guns n' Roses.
We signed this other band, Nirvana. This is a band
kind of like that band. You know they you know,
they go out and they play gigs, and they were
not thinking of it as anything other than music. And
I mean, you know, wow, that's far out, huh. And
you know, I ended up. I think I've got two

(01:02:05):
or three gold records from them from that period.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
I was gonna ask did you ever think of collaborating
with Kim and Thurston of Sonic Youth. I know that
was a big fan of yours.

Speaker 6 (01:02:20):
No, and and uh, you know, I mean it's funny because,
like you say, at the record company, you know, you
go to the record company and you see everybody else
is on the label. And I used to see that
guy from Guns N' Roses like would be leaving as
I would come in, or you know. I mean, and
it was cool because it's like we all had the
same art director. And I remember when they were doing, uh,

(01:02:43):
the Nirvana cover, the famous one, because the guy was
working on one of my covers at the same time, or.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
That same person.

Speaker 6 (01:02:50):
I mean, you know it. It was all kind of
in the house there, including Sonic Youth too. Yeah, because
they were they were in there too.

Speaker 5 (01:02:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
I was going to say, yeah, as of today, the
baby from that cover.

Speaker 7 (01:03:03):
When the baby is suing for child pronography charges on Saturday.

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
Just just say you need ten bucks.

Speaker 11 (01:03:11):
Man, come on, come on, uh wait, okay, I do
want to ask, and does anyone from my world, from
the world of hip hop ever make a big deal
of letters from home?

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
Yes, without me letting it out, the bag.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
You mean, like musically, Yeah, see, this is the thing
I don't I don't want to open up a Pandora's
box because you own your masters which box, Yes, exactly.
But but what I'm saying is that again, the hip
hop world has a way different relationship with you than

(01:03:57):
the other words. And you know, I mean that's the
thing about him, because they'll look at something that the
average world will ignore and then they'll be like, no,
but that's the that's the thing over there. So I'm
just curious, like, do any does anyone from the world
of hip hop just ever come to you and.

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
Say, like, yo, let hers from home.

Speaker 6 (01:04:20):
Specifically?

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
No, next question anyway, you know, I gotta.

Speaker 6 (01:04:26):
Tell you, man, I'm like, you know, I don't hang much.
You know, I kind of I've gotten away somehow with
doing my own thing mostly, and I you know, even
kind of within the circle of musicians that I would
probably normally be around, right, you know, in the you know,
going to Smalls or something, and I do go. Hear

(01:04:49):
a lot of people and I go and I kind
of stand in the back and listen to a couple
of tunes and you know, but all kinds of music.
But you know, I mean, I'm you know, I'm not
really like in the scene. I mean, I will say
because I did visit the new power station the other
day now at Berkeley zoning it, and man, you know
that was really cool back in those days where yeah,

(01:05:12):
I would see uh, you know, you know everybody. You know, like,
you know, everybody was there all the time. You'd run
into like, you know, Eric Clapton, or you'd run into
Nita Baker, you'd run into I mean, everybody was there
recording all the time, and you'd see everybody, and it
was in a way, it was kind of a social

(01:05:33):
way that you would have an encounter with somebody sort
of outside of your you know, normal hang but you know,
I don't go to clubs or do anything like where
I would be hanging out.

Speaker 8 (01:05:48):
The record that the slip Away record that was sample
it was a song it's called Summer Days by its DJ,
I think Nick Holder, and so actually crazy thing. I
did a panel with him, this is probably I mean, god,
this is seventeen years ago and we were just on
a panel together and I had never heard any of
his music. And then afterwards I heard Summer Days and

(01:06:09):
I was like, man, this is great. I want to say,
maybe like a year after that, chilling another one. My
Homi's a big jazz head, and he was like, yo,
that's so, and so I was like what and then
he put me on to your break. I was like, oh,
that's that was thing. Like, I had no clue, but
that was a bridge to, you know, to the rest
of that album, to the I.

Speaker 6 (01:06:27):
Mean, my fundamental kind of feeling about sampling and the
way that not just my thing, but kind of records
in general are used in that realm is very positive.
I mean to me, it's really related to collage art
and you know, of course graffiti and all of that stuff,

(01:06:49):
which means, you know, that's the language of this moment.
And so to me it's like I have absolutely no
problem with it, and I love people do stuff, create creatively.
But to me, that was just like, man, that's you're.

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
Just The thing is is that you know, people don't
understand like hip hop is at its core, hip hop
is African music, and African music is repetitive. It's it's
always a repetition of you know, and I know that
you come from a world where you got to go
linear and go in a straight line, like to.

Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
Somewhere else, somewhere else.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
So I initially asked that question if you were aware
of how much that particular album, let Us from Home
At sort of been a kind of a creative outlet
for like a lot of the classic hip hop stuff
that I grew up on, only because I know that
you were also like very open and a key developer

(01:07:48):
in like new technology, like with the cinclavier and with
sampling and and with you know, especially when you start
at your falcon and Snowman scoring stuff, how you were
basically kind of using primitive technology that we're using now,
Like you know, now half the stuff is on our laptop.

(01:08:09):
Were you actively advising the Cynclavia people on how to
build the machine or were you just the first recipient
to get it and use it?

Speaker 6 (01:08:18):
And well, we're going back actually seventy nine for that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
Oh that's how early. Okay, it was.

Speaker 6 (01:08:24):
Way before maybe, And yeah, I was out there on
the bleeding edge of that end. I mean, you know,
there's all kinds of like sort of shocking you know,
technological aspects to you know, I mean I remember at
one point spending five thousand dollars to get a five

(01:08:45):
megabyte hard drive five may not gig and we it was.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
It was a megabyte, not even a gig now thousand
dollars a megabyte.

Speaker 12 (01:08:59):
It was.

Speaker 6 (01:09:01):
Maybe yeah, yep, exactly. And not only that, it was
so fragile it had to have its own bunk on
the bus.

Speaker 5 (01:09:09):
Oh wow.

Speaker 6 (01:09:12):
And I mean you use it live, yeah, I mean,
you know, it's a funny thing because now, of course
everybody does all kinds of stuff now. So when the
sing Leavier came out, their ad was this is the
last synthesizer you'll ever need to buy and uh, and

(01:09:33):
it had several new things that just had not existed before.
One was FM synthesis, which this is several years before
the dread of d X seven came along. And then
they were the they were you didn't like the patches,
well you know they probably weren't that patches it, So
just be honest.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
In eighty five, were you looking at like, yo, d
X seven, Man, this is the future?

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Or do you automatically knew it was cheesy?

Speaker 6 (01:09:59):
No? I knew, man. I mean we can also talk
about since for hours because I have very strong opinions
that one. But you know, man, I mean, you know
the thing about acoustic instruments, you can't make them hurt you,

(01:10:20):
you know, and electric instruments, including guitar, their default is pain.
You know. It's like you really have to have a
concept and a vision of sound before you plug it
in with those instruments because their default is just horrible.
And also, you know, speakers, we we all think about

(01:10:43):
speak and we just we don't even think about speakers anymore.
Of course, it's gonna come out of a speaker. I mean, man,
speakers suck, you know, compared to a drum or a guitar,
I mean, speaker, I don't care if it's the best
speaker in the world. They're horrible. So it's like you
have to have an accoustick framework to build electric music
from in my opinion, and I mean my first act

(01:11:06):
was to plug it in. You know, I've been dealing
with knobs and wires and electricity from day one. That's
part of the instrument. So all of this stuff, computers
and everything else, for me, that's part of the acts.
A big thing for me has always been to get
a good sound and to you know, make it do
at least something that has a reflection in terms of

(01:11:28):
orchestration to this incredible tradition of you know, dietonic chromatic
music that's evolved over the last few hundred years, and
you know kind of also included in that. I would say, yeah,
there can be abstraction, there can be conflict, there can
be dissonance, there can be all kinds of other stuff.

(01:11:49):
But to me, there it requires a certain kind of
wisdom to make those things really happen. So back to
the sinclavier. One of the things that it had was
a sequence there that had never existed commercially before, so
I could get this thing to play parts that we
could play with. And I mean, man, that was like

(01:12:11):
top secret for twenty years. It's like, you know, we
would hide the single of ear and nobody really knew
what we were doing or how it was working and
what was going on. And we kind of successfully managed
to do that. But I never had a loop. It
was always something transparent. I was like writing for Cello's,

(01:12:31):
writing for French ones, and there was always this thing
in there. And we almost never had a clique either.
It was always some music. Yeah, it was always something
musical that you could you could work yourself into so
that you could get the feel in between the thing
because to me, that's where the music is too, is
the feel of it. But to me, it's like, if

(01:12:53):
there's gonna be a clique, I wanted to rush, you know,
because all the musicians I love rush. So if there's
going to be a clip, man, I spend hours with
the drummer, like working on making it rush and rushing
we would. I did rushing And some of that probably
comes from four and More being my first record, because

(01:13:15):
they rushing crazy on that. But you know, to me,
those things it's like tech to me should be in
the service of the music. I never relinquish anything to
the tech. I'm always like, come on, man, you know.
And that goes for the manufacturers too. It's like I'm
always saying, couldn't you know what if you know that

(01:13:36):
kind of stuff? But tempo dynamics and I mean, you know,
the fact that we're still living with MIDI now is
just a nightmare, man. I mean that that sucked in
nineteen eighty five, you know, And so for now it's
like I know, you know James because I know he
works with you, but I mean he brings in these
like quirgs from nineteen eighty five and I'm like, no, no,

(01:14:01):
I suffered through that shit back then. Man, But you
know what, he knows what he's doing, so he can
do whatever he wants. But yeah, I mean stuff kind
of was you know, it didn't work that well back then,
you know, I mean, yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
How would you because he was so early to adapt
to that sort of technology in your live show, how
would you adjust if there were any faux paths or.

Speaker 5 (01:14:31):
You know, you louse?

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
Okay, we lost half the you know, half the programming
for blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 6 (01:14:37):
They own may not know that. A few years ago
I did an entire project with me and a whole
bunch of robots. Are you hip to the orchestra on?
You know, I kind of ragged on speakers a little
while ago, but actually that kind of got cracked back

(01:14:58):
in in early nineteen twenties. Player pianos output device, not
a speaker, the composers in the room. But he's not
in the room. You're hearing an acoustic sound. I mean, man,
there it is. And of course, not long after that,
somebody came along with wire recordings. Then seventy eights. It's

(01:15:19):
like you know that put the player piano guys out
of business. So for their last gasp, they are like, okay,
we need to like, let's attach some drum, snare drum
and some symbols and a xylophone to the player piano.
And then people did that, and so they did that,
and you still hear them in pizza parlors every now

(01:15:40):
and then, you know where it's like that does yep,
And those were the first orchestrions. And the thing about
those instruments you can't listen for more than about thirty
seconds before you want to kill yourself because they have
no dynamics. It's just like if somebody talks like this
all the time, you cannot listen to them because and
music that doesn't have dynamics, nobody can listen to that.

(01:16:00):
And that's that was the real downfall of that tech
so flat. You know, fast forward seventy years, Yamaha comes
along with the disclavier, which we all know as you know,
playing girl from Eanma how to tune in hotel lobbies.

(01:16:20):
Only you would say it amazing technology. And that's sol
annoys which do allow dynamics. And I've followed this stuff
all along. It's something I've been interested in, you know, basically,
midy to control voltage that can hit something or do something.
And so I put together a bunch of instruments from

(01:16:42):
five really great inventors, none of them really knew each other,
and went out and did a whole tour, me on
a bunch of robots, proving once and for all just
how weird I actually am. It was. You know, it
was not quite settled science before that, but that did it.
You want to talk about, you know, the potential for
train wrecks.

Speaker 4 (01:17:04):
Wait, were you the only human on stage?

Speaker 6 (01:17:06):
I was the only human on stage, and check it out.
You know. The thing is I made a record which
you know was not really understood because you couldn't see it.
But at the very end of the tour, because I
did one hundred and some concerts around the world with this,
at the end of the tour, we filmed it and
you can find it online the orchestre On project, and

(01:17:28):
you can see what was going on. And honestly, it's
ten years now or more twelve years since I did it.
I can't believe nobody else is doing it. I was like, man,
you know this is gonna this is going to be
the thing, but my thing, because there is one of
these inventors that I've continued to work with, and the
issue is dynamics, because when you hit your snare man,

(01:17:49):
the you know, the amount of you know, what goes
into that in terms of like pounds per square inch
is like way more than any solonoid that existed then
for sure. So now that this one guy who's a
Belgian guy has come up with a really powerful solenoid
that if you put your hand down there, it would

(01:18:09):
break your hand. Until we can present it to you
or jay Z or somebody in an acoustic space doing
the thing that it's supposed to do, we don't have anything.
But I don't know if you've ever been to Carnival
in Brazil where it's like acoustic but loud, louder than
Metallica that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Because they're a billion people playing also the same thing exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:18:34):
But also just the amount of air that gets moved acoustically,
you know, and you're right, it's coming from not single
instruments but like a multiple of But imagine what that
could be if you like, instead of you know, using
a drum machine and instead of it being like, you know,

(01:18:56):
something coming through your crappy little speakers, you're like in
a where house with like seventeen bass drums getting hit
harder than you can even imagine to make a sound
and have it happen. This is the other issue with
all this stuff is latency because of the amount of
time from the time you hit a pad or whatever

(01:19:18):
till the time it takes it to turn into you know,
unfortunately midy one point zero to then the ce you know,
control voltage aspect of it to the mechanism can be
you know, four or five milliseconds, which in terms of
groove we know is love stub milliseconds. And so that

(01:19:38):
issue also I think, you know, with five G kind
of stuff, and you know, we're on the cusp of
a whole bunch of possibilities for musicians with this next
step in tech that's going to be really great.

Speaker 5 (01:19:51):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
Okay, so you're are you saying that you are currently
trying to improve on a robot's ability to actually have
human feel and can pre program dynamics, so like Snare
one might be seventy seven, but Snare two might be

(01:20:15):
forty five, and and can do grace notes and can
fluctuate and speed and slow down.

Speaker 6 (01:20:23):
But but okay, so but wait, let me let me
respond to that, because you know, I mean when the
sink lavier came out, you know, string plers, this is
going to put us out of business. You know, it's
like you know, a d X seven. You can't tell
the difference between this and offend your roads.

Speaker 4 (01:20:38):
It's like, yeah, uk, are you kidding?

Speaker 6 (01:20:41):
You know? No, no, you know, to me, I'm about
both and I'm not about either or and the whole
thing about you know, the like when I did the
orchestra on project, of course, people are like, you're trying
to put me the you know, you know all that stuff.
It's like, no, no, if this is not a better
way to do anything, this is a different way to

(01:21:03):
do something. And I'm all about like, you know, what
else can we do? I mean, you know, to me,
like again going back to hip hop, jazz, classical folk.
You know, what I'm into is creativity. And you know
that's what I like is you know, like man, I
think about the Beatles. It's like God, you know, man,
some you know, some artists are like happy if they

(01:21:24):
if each record's got a sound. I mean those guys
every track had a completely different sound. I mean, you know,
it's like God, I wish you know, I mean, you
know the community that I kind of hang in like
we're so creative. I mean, man, how many more trumpet
tenor piano based drum records you know are there going
to be? And I did, I did two and four.

(01:21:46):
But I mean, come on, let's you know what I mean?
If you think of all the spectrum of all possible
music that there could be made by humans, and then
you think about this tiny sliver that most music now
in habits, it's like why.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Well, let me let me ask is there a challenge
that that you have yet to meet?

Speaker 4 (01:22:12):
And I guess the B side of that question would
be have you how do you? How do you get?
How do you navigate in a situation?

Speaker 6 (01:22:21):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:22:21):
When you're doing improvisation in which I guess improvisation is.

Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
Only good as your collaborators, and your.

Speaker 3 (01:22:30):
Collaborators is really is only strong as who your weakest contributor. Well,
I don't want to say weakest, like, but how do you? Okay,
let me just ask that question. One is is there
a challenge that you have dreamt about that you've yet

(01:22:51):
to achieve? And how do you navigate a situation in
which you might be improvised with less skillful musicians. I
don't know if you know, if you sit in a
local bar one night with the musician. I don't mean
like the guys that you actively tour with, but.

Speaker 6 (01:23:14):
I mean men. You know. For me, you know, it's
the It's again, it's one of those cliches, the onion
thing of every new step that you take as a musician,
you reveal a thousand other things. It's like, God, you know,
I really need to work on that and that and that.
So it's really infinite for me. I mean in terms
of God, what do I need to get better at everything?

(01:23:38):
You know? I mean, it's just I mean one thing
I will say though, So when I started making records,
I've only been a musician for four or five years,
and I mean now it's fifty some years, and you know,
I'm God, I'm like so much better now than I
used to be. It's which makes it so much more fun.
I understand so much more. And you know, remember when

(01:23:59):
we first started talking, that was kind of the goal
for me, and it's still the goal for me. I
just want to understand, like what is that? And when
I hear some music that I really love, I want
to know, like, Okay, how does that work? And once
I start doing that, usually I get to the point
where I can kind of play in that realm and

(01:24:24):
you know, and that that opens up another thousand doors,
you know. But I feel like I always am coming
to music as a fan first. You know, I'm like,
I love music, you know, the same way I love
that Models record. You know, I hear stuff all the
time and I go, I love that? What is that?
And I want to know what it is? And also
why do I love that so much? What is it

(01:24:45):
about that that really makes me dig it that much? Okay,
I'm going to give you a weird off though. All example,
So the big hit right now, that young girl Olivia
Yes and her tunes right, her tune? And I mean
because I have three kids, so I hear the hits
all the time, and you know I did hear in
the hits, but you know that structurally that tune does

(01:25:10):
a thing.

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
So it's like, you know, to do don't give it
that much more power?

Speaker 5 (01:25:15):
Now I'm playing.

Speaker 6 (01:25:17):
Again. I don't know anything about the culture. I don't
know anything about.

Speaker 4 (01:25:21):
Her no no, no, no, no, summer you.

Speaker 6 (01:25:24):
Know, doing that thing. And also it's something that happens
a lot in right at the moment, the thing where
it's kind of fast, but it's also halftime, but it's
also double time, you know, which is a cool thing.
I mean there's like some you know, swing versions of
that too, you know. I mean that's a great thing.

Speaker 4 (01:25:42):
And there you have it, Pat Metheny, I.

Speaker 6 (01:25:47):
Mean that that just popped into my mind. But you know,
in terms of orchestration, dynamics, build execution, and then particularly communication,
I mean, it does the thing right, and you know,
maybe that's lost in a lot of this discussion. It's
like all the stuff you know about rhythm and harmony.

(01:26:07):
Melody is kind of a mystery zone. But rhythm and harmony, man,
you can talk about that stuff. You can go to
college for four years on rhythm and harmony. Easy.

Speaker 5 (01:26:21):
Pat, you were talking about your kids. How old are
you kids? Man?

Speaker 6 (01:26:24):
They're twenty two, twenty and twelve.

Speaker 5 (01:26:29):
Oh okay, that's Olivia, got it.

Speaker 6 (01:26:33):
That's what I was gonna say.

Speaker 4 (01:26:34):
What with their music and matriculation?

Speaker 9 (01:26:35):
Like, like, how how do you wish your relationship with
them musically?

Speaker 6 (01:26:40):
Seems like it goes like either full in or like
don't bug us with the music thing? Dad, they're more
in the second category, although all three of them could
be musicians. They're all kind of mind blowingly good years
and so forth. Taste wise, man, they're all over the place.

(01:27:02):
You know, my middle kid, Jeff, who's like super hip.
He's six ' four. He's mostly into basketball, but he
started playing acoustic bass. And I mean he's been around
Christian and Charlie Hayden and all these cats since he
was born. And I mean he's just got a natural
easy walk and feel. But the notes are kind of like,

(01:27:24):
you know, kind of you know, not I don't want
to say random, but but you know, the feel wins.
Actually it's like, you know, with that feel, it's like
just fill in some lengths. But he's just kind of like, yeah,
I think I'm gonna go practice free throws instead.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
So it's never a thing when you forced the kids
to like pick up the mantel and you're going to
join the family business and okay, yeah, no.

Speaker 6 (01:27:50):
I wouldn't be like that. You know, I don't see.
And also, you know what, man, being it like I
said earlier, I mean, I'm so happy to be a musician.
You know, it's like we actually get to deal in
a currency. That's true. You know, it's like be flat.
It's always b flat, no matter what else is going on.
It's either of it.

Speaker 5 (01:28:09):
Is in every language. Is the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:28:12):
You never know, feel good.

Speaker 3 (01:28:13):
You know, we live in a time where facts are debatable,
so you know, but be flat.

Speaker 4 (01:28:18):
It's always be flat. Steve, Before I close, did you
have a question?

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
Yeah, you were also on other great labels, Warner Brothers,
none such. But the two albums you put out this
year in twenty twenty one are on Modern Recordings.

Speaker 4 (01:28:35):
Is that your label?

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
And can you tell us a little bit about those
two records?

Speaker 6 (01:28:39):
Yeah? So my label was formed in nineteen eighty four,
which is Metheny Group Productions, and from that time until now,
at various points along the way, I have made licensing
deals with several different companies which were then sold to
other companies on a couple occasions, which were then distributed

(01:29:02):
by other companies. But throughout it all, I've always had
my own thing. I do what I want to do,
and everybody that I have worked with along the way
has been great. My thing has been my own thing
since I left UCM, and it's just been a matter
of getting different distributions. These guys. Uh, you know, it's

(01:29:28):
part of BMG, this modern recordings thing, you know, for
the first time in a really long time. Because actually
when I went to Geffen, Geffen was distributed by Warners.
I mean, it doesn't matter, it's really complicated. Then Warners
and Geffen got into a fight because of me. I
was like this speck of dust on a pond at
the bottom of that. Somehow when they broke up their

(01:29:51):
distribution thing, you know, and Warners had invested a lot
in me and my band distributing with Geffen into so anyway,
I wound up on Warners. Then Warners had a thing.
It was kind of a little different than at Geffen,
where they really left me completely alone. Warners I kind

(01:30:12):
of did have to you know, and was around a
really good guy there, Matt Pearson, who was very a
really great enthusiastic supporter of my thing. And then at
a certain point they shut that down and then None
Such took over what was left of that. And actually
the guy that ran None Such at that time was
a guy that I he started at ECM when I

(01:30:34):
did Bob Hurwitz. So it's been all these guys. I've
known all these guys along the way, and it's been
great with all of them. Finally, you know, I had
this record deal that had been put in place I
think in nineteen ninety two for I mean, it's insane.
And then it kind of got to the end after
all these years, and I did a lot of records

(01:30:55):
off the lay off the contract and stuff in between,
and you know, whatever, it's all just whatever that stuff was.
But finally, for the first time, I was kind of like, okay,
I can it's now twelve. Was going to school and
a new kid came into the class from Germany and
he was this big monster fan and he came to

(01:31:15):
my house and sat down with a guitar and started
playing all the tunes.

Speaker 4 (01:31:20):
And I was like, wow, just showed up, like he
was invited over.

Speaker 6 (01:31:24):
Oh shoot yeah. And then he said, and we're you know,
I'm part of BMG and we're starting this new thing.
Would you would you possibly be interested? And I was like, well, yeah,
I mean why not. So now they're distributing, and I
mean it's distributed I think by Warreners kid. I don't know,

(01:31:44):
you know, for me, especially at this point, the whole
idea of records and all that, it's a little hard
to even know what's going on. I mean, you know,
it's a different world in a lot of ways. But
on the other hand, I'm kind of like a guy
that I do believe in the sort of structure of

(01:32:04):
what an album is. I think there's something to be
said kind of like a novel is different than a tweet,
you know. Cool, No, I mean, the novel form is
a really great form, even short stories, you know, collection
of short stories is a really nice form, And you know,
I kind of relate to that in ways that doing

(01:32:27):
one tune at a time. You know, maybe at some
point I don't have anything against it, but I'm still like,
you know, I've got so many projects in mind, many
of which I've already even done, that are kind of
album type records.

Speaker 4 (01:32:42):
So yeah, wait, do you have another question? Yeah, can
we interview interview you forever?

Speaker 6 (01:32:48):
Please answers you can see for my answers that could
actually be possible. On and on and on. Everybody in
the house is like, this.

Speaker 3 (01:33:04):
Show actually lives up to the idea of what I
would like to think every episode of Quest Love Supreme is.
I mean, I love I love the education that we're
getting and the knowledge, like this is this is very important.

Speaker 4 (01:33:19):
All right, I got one last question.

Speaker 6 (01:33:21):
Well, I got a bunch of questions for you too,
because I want to get those in, So.

Speaker 4 (01:33:25):
Go ahead, he ask away. Wait, no, I was about
to wrap up up.

Speaker 6 (01:33:30):
To this question, your last one, and then I'll start
asking you.

Speaker 4 (01:33:33):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:33:35):
I heard that in an interview once on w bg
O where you said that you I'm sorry Jersey, New
York w bg OH famous jazz station of New York,
that you keep a diary or journal of all the
shows that you do. How long have you been keeping

(01:33:57):
a journal of these shows and how in depth are
they and do you ever plan on releasing this as
a memoir to your illustrious career.

Speaker 6 (01:34:14):
Well, the first thing I would say to that is
something I've been saying on occasion, which is, you know,
the line between like full blown mental illness and like
compulsive productivity is a very fine one that I do
my best to stay on the right side of. And
you know my reasons for that, it's been I've been

(01:34:36):
doing it since the nineteen eighty one is that I
was doing a lot of gigs, and you know, back
in those days, it was quite common when you would
do a tour. You would play the same city two
or three times on the tour, and so I was like,
I want to keep track of what we played so

(01:34:57):
that when we come back the next time, play a
different set or I put it in a different order.
So that started it. It was kind of a pragmatic thing.
And then I started to realize, like, okay, and also
every time we would go to that hall there was
like a really nasty buzz, so it's like, you know,
I started to keep track of that stuff too. And

(01:35:19):
every time we would go work with that promoter, he
you know, would would not do this, or he had
a crappy sound system or whatever it was. Back in
those days, I was the tour manager, you know, I
was everything, you know, and you know, having that reference thing,
then I could at least call ahead to the right

(01:35:40):
kind of whatever, you know, so you know, with stuff
like that. But then it then I realized too that
I was taking kind of I was starting to become
more aware of the kinds of things that I would
do again and again that I didn't really dig that much.

(01:36:01):
And you know, and this was totally self directed. And
there is a thing that we all have as musicians,
especially if you play a long set, you know, like,
you know, the fourth tune, you completely destroy the bridge.
It's like you didn't even come close. And then, you know,

(01:36:23):
two hours later, the set is over and everybody claps
standing ovation or whatever, and you kind of go, well, yeah,
I guess it was cool. I mean, everybody seemed to
dig it. You know. Then the next night you're at
the fourth tune again and here comes that bridge and
it's like you didn't shed it, you didn't you mess
it up again, you know. So it was stuff like that.

(01:36:45):
It was like, you know, if I keep track of
these things by replaying the whole gig in my mind,
because I can only do it for about an hour
or two after the gig. After that, it's like, first
of all, I'm wasted because we do, you know, six
cities a week and you know, riding the bus every night,
and so it's like by the next day, it's like
just a blur anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:37:06):
So all right, so if I got you have questions,
I will answer.

Speaker 5 (01:37:13):
Them for you.

Speaker 6 (01:37:14):
I got questions.

Speaker 5 (01:37:15):
I mean, this is a first. I'm so ready for this.

Speaker 4 (01:37:18):
I'm not ready for this. I'm like, yo, man, my
mom would call me a question this.

Speaker 6 (01:37:25):
Won't surprise you, though. My questions are to start with
about the movie, which is unbelievable man, Thank yous. Unbelievable.
It's incredible what you did. Now, I mean I appreciate that,
you know, but it's more than It's more than what
it is. It's something else that's really important, and you

(01:37:47):
did it so good man. I mean, it's like, you know,
everybody has to see that.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
And technically not a question, but yeah, not a question, but.

Speaker 3 (01:37:58):
I would take that compliment. Is it any more sunny
Sharrock footage?

Speaker 6 (01:38:06):
And I do have a comment on that, But how
did you get it to sound that good?

Speaker 4 (01:38:12):
Yo? That is the million dollar question? I lie, do
you not?

Speaker 3 (01:38:19):
One of my favorite engineers in the world is Jimmy Douglas.

Speaker 4 (01:38:24):
Yes, a gentleman who's you know.

Speaker 3 (01:38:26):
He started off Barry White and Slave and eventually went
to Timberland and Missy Elliott. Like he he forty years
of excellence. He also did the Uretha Franklin Amazing Grace
movie as well.

Speaker 5 (01:38:43):
I lie to you not.

Speaker 3 (01:38:46):
Jimmy hit us and was sort of like, I think
this rough mix sounds good as is, and literally I'll
say that we did maybe zero point two percent equing
Like what you hearing is the act is just a
rough reference mix, which to me, I don't know how

(01:39:07):
to explain that. Only fifteen microphones and you can look one.
You know, I've watched the movie in various ways. There
was one time where I just watched the movies to
see what the outputs were. And you know, in Stevie
Wonder set alone, there's there's three mics on his drums,
so that's already twelve mics left over, three mics for

(01:39:28):
his drums, three mics for his other drummer, and then
his keyboard gets a mic, his vocal gets a mic,
and his rhythm section, his guitar and his bass.

Speaker 4 (01:39:39):
Is share.

Speaker 3 (01:39:41):
There they're what do you call their amster sort of
facing each other, so they're sharing a mic, and the
remaining five are going to the brass section. I don't
know how it sounded at crispy and perfect, but we
basically did very little post on on and the sound
like what you're hearing, is like the rough mix of

(01:40:03):
the reference, which to me was way more perfect than
anything that we could have done to it.

Speaker 6 (01:40:09):
So Sonny shock right, yes, swallow this connects with with
our one of our earlier points. Swallow said, yeah, I
would watch Sonny like get there early and meticulously warm
up with these chromatic scales for like an hour, and
then he would go.

Speaker 4 (01:40:27):
Out on stage and not play chromatic scales.

Speaker 6 (01:40:35):
No, he was great, Sonny. And you got some good
Sonny there too. I mean the way and also I mean, man,
I mean so all the music aspect of it is great,
but to me, what was really great was the story
you told with it, and the way you told the
story and just everything about it. Man, it's just the greatest,

(01:40:56):
really really well.

Speaker 4 (01:40:58):
I appreciate that, and I thank you for receiving it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:02):
And they're laughing right now because they know that I
cringe at compliments, but no, I'm wet right now. And
that said, I'm rapping up this episode of Patany's Quest
because they are laughing there as No, seriously, I want
to thank you for doing this, you know, And again,
I appreciate information in history like.

Speaker 4 (01:41:27):
No other, especially with music. And you know, all that
you've done to.

Speaker 3 (01:41:32):
To push to push the art form of music forward,
not even just jazz, but just creativity for it is
not lost on me. And we're big fans of yours,
and we appreciate you.

Speaker 5 (01:41:44):
For doing it real man.

Speaker 8 (01:41:44):
Yeah, my good buddy Chris Burnoff is a huge fan
of yours.

Speaker 5 (01:41:48):
He's my guitar player. He like has like your song.

Speaker 8 (01:41:52):
He has like a Pat mactheeney song book in his
studio and he showed it to me.

Speaker 5 (01:41:55):
Do that shito like the Bible. It was huge. I
was like, what the fuck? So nah, man, it was.

Speaker 8 (01:42:01):
I'm a huge fan and I just want to thank
you too for so may it secretly begin. That's another favorite,
favorite one of yours that I really enjoyed. So just
thank you for all the music, man, for real, it was.

Speaker 6 (01:42:11):
A pleasure hanging with you guys. Thank you so much
for inviting me. Really yeah, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:42:17):
Well be half a sugar Steve and unpaid bill and
fantigolo and like, yeah, my name is Questlove.

Speaker 4 (01:42:22):
Thank you Pat mcffeni uh.

Speaker 12 (01:42:24):
This is quest Love Supreme and we'll see you on
the next go round. All right, thank you, yo, what's up?
This is Fonte.

Speaker 8 (01:42:35):
Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at
QLs and let us know what you think who should be.

Speaker 5 (01:42:40):
Next to sit down with us? Don't forget to subscribe
to our podcast, all right?

Speaker 6 (01:42:44):
Peace?

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 3 (01:42:59):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Laiya St. Clair

Questlove

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