QLS Celebrates Womens History Month Part 3

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome back to Quest Love Supreme and we're celebrating Women's
History Month here in March with some special programming drawn
from nearly a decade of shows and conversations. And shout
out to Laya from Team Supreme who always pushed the
programming to QLs to make sure that there is space
for these conversations to even happen, especially at times when

(00:30):
the team was sometimes crowded by guys.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
In the room.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yes, we are guilty.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
It's so weird how we take for granted women's roles
in music and in history. I remember as a child
oftentimes getting records and legit being shocked. I remember one
time my aunt was a part of the Columbia Music House.

(01:07):
Asked your parents about that at Google Columbia Music House
that was the original Spotify. That's how we got records rapidly.
And one day we got night Birds by label in
the package in the mail.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
I believe that was the.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Very first time that I saw all women on an
album cover and I kept staring at it, and I
remember asking my aunt. I was like four years old,
and night Birds is the LaBelle album that kind of
like brought them to prominence. Of course, their timeless Lady
Marmalade was the lead single, that Monster single from that album.

(01:45):
And I remember asking my aunt, like, are women allowed
to make music? And you know, it's so weird how
even at the age of four I had to ask
that question, but because you know, you just often didn't
see such a thing, which now you know, after having
worked on the slo and the Family Stone documentary, I

(02:07):
see how revolutionary sly Stone was in nineteen sixty seven.
As far as like ginger pairing is concerned, seeing Cynthia
Robinson on the trumpet, that's something you just didn't see
every day, you know, you didn't see those things. I
remember there was a group called Ecstasy, Passion and Pain
from Philadelphia and they had a drummer named Cookie and

(02:28):
they were on Soul Train, and I was like, wow,
girls are allowed.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
To play drums?

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Like And you know, I lived in a household with
three women, my aunt, my sister, and my mother, and
they were constantly, constantly reprogramming me to always give consideration
to women and to give them their proper do and
their proper respect. And so that's kind of how it
starts with me, and you know, as a result, women.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Were a big part of our creative circle.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Like you know, if you just look at the first
movement of jam sessions that we had with Black Lily,
primarily female led, simply because when that movement started out
initially as the Roots Jam session, a lot of the
women that would come would just be huddled up in
the corner rather, you know, kind of pissed off that

(03:18):
they're not getting any time on the microphone. Like they
would sing for like two seconds and then suddenly like
an MC would come on and.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Then you know, they just give up and walk away
in the corner.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
I remember one particular night there's epic battle between Tracy
and the Jazzy Fat Nasties and Rest in Peace Mum's
the poet, and they were going at each other and
Tracy was getting in his ass like like I'm tired
of y'all hogging up the microphone not giving us our
say and whatever.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
You know, Richard Nichols is his whole solution. Rich's job
was always to come with this solution. He didn't break
up arguments, He just came up with the solution. The
solution was, Okay, we will now start a female led
jam session so that women get their say.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
And that's the Black Lily Jam sessions for you.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
So shout out to Tracy for holding it down. This
is part three.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Enjoy all right, So we're going to begin with the
amazing Tracy Ellis Ross. In this clip, she speaks about
wishing to use the physical life changes that women experience
to push her towards stand up. This conversation also touches

(04:37):
on Blackish covering postpartum and how Tracy had a complicated
relationship being an actress with a very famous mother.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
I really enjoyed this conversation.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
I always tried to imagine what it was like to
grow up in Los Angeles or Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Assume that you grew up.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
I grew up in New York.

Speaker 5 (05:02):
Really yeah, New York, New York and Europe. So I
was born here in La I went to the Center,
and then we moved to New York so my mom
could do the whiz in seventy nine, and we left
and started school in New York in seventy.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
Nine and stayed there until seventh grade. And I'm we
moved to Paris and then Switzerland.

Speaker 5 (05:22):
So I did eighth and ninth grade in Europe, which
are pivotal years, and then moved back to the East
Coast and then went to Brown.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
You've got a couple of languages and maybe oh.

Speaker 6 (05:38):
I just forgot all my friendship.

Speaker 5 (05:45):
I have lost most of my vocabulary, but I have
a strong French accent that can you know, get me
by and I can speak English with a French accent
like nobody's business.

Speaker 7 (05:56):
Then you have no idea because you don't know that
I speak English of conscience doesn't matter because the people
they wander and don't know how you stay in English
because the people are their wonder all the time.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
You know how you say, how you say?

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (06:09):
You know?

Speaker 6 (06:10):
Wait, I'm sorry, I mean almos Tracy, Tracy?

Speaker 8 (06:14):
Do you right?

Speaker 5 (06:15):
I do?

Speaker 8 (06:16):
I write so me.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
It's funny because I was just thinking you. I know
you've done improv. I seen you sketch comedy with the
lyricists lounge. Of course, You're a funny lady. How come
and I know your I a stand up? Have you
ever thought of like just doing.

Speaker 5 (06:27):
I've not done stand up, but I have to tell
you I mean this.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
I'm forty eight years old.

Speaker 5 (06:33):
At my forty eight, I'm forty eight and I'm going
through the beginning of some changes, some perimenopause, and I've
got to tell you that I really get to stand
up on this ship because I, first of all, it's
got Did you see the that two second pool video
I posted?

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yes, thoughts there, I heard about that fool video.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
It's funny.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
I think it's two seconds. It's two seconds in.

Speaker 6 (07:04):
That videocy Mater you was in a bathing suit. That's
what I heard. That's all I had in a pool.

Speaker 5 (07:10):
I mean, you know, I have a like it wasn't
me in a bathing suit in the kitchen.

Speaker 8 (07:16):
Actually in the pool.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, I was like, why is this two seconds?

Speaker 6 (07:21):
You should do that?

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Because a female comedian told me that female shouldn't talk
about female issues, so please do that.

Speaker 6 (07:26):
Why was I.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
Wish more people would talk about it.

Speaker 5 (07:30):
I mean, I don't know about you, but some of
the sexiest and most admirable women that I look at
are my age and older. I want to know what's
happening and it's.

Speaker 6 (07:41):
Still happening, and how it happens and what.

Speaker 5 (07:43):
It is, and like it should be demystified. And I
don't think it should be scary to men either. I
think it's it's certainly not the end of my life.
I am not being pushed out on a canoe out
into nowhere.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
I'll tell you that right now.

Speaker 5 (07:55):
I as I said before, I am a liberated woman. I
am out here living my life in all.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
Of its fullness.

Speaker 5 (08:00):
Well yeah, and I think people we should talk about
it in that way so that we let go of
the stigma. It's the same thing like on Blackish when
we did that episode on postpartum depression. Why are we
not talking about these things when you're siloed off by yourself.
That's when you feel termally unique and you don't think
that you can you know, it's just you that's in
that situation.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
Nah, We're all doing it.

Speaker 5 (08:22):
And by the way, men have their own version of
what's happening at this age as their home hormones are
shifting and changing.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, yeah, hey, well yeah, I was about to say,
will set it off yesterday, even though this is coming.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
On way later.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
Oh my god, that was so charming and lovely that
he did that.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
And that was my favorite post.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yes, it was so lovely.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
But I also have to say, like a friend, so
many friends and me a text.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
I did a video on that on Instagram too of
people saying you have gained so much weight.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
Good, bravo, thank your body. You just made it through
a pandemic. What else were you supposed to do? And
I'm sorry, but that layer of softness welcome it because
the ship was hard and scary and sharp out there.

Speaker 8 (09:03):
Everybody make it?

Speaker 5 (09:05):
No, you know, and so and and our joy and
spontaneity was all funneled into very few spaces, most of
which involved food and drink. So what y'all thought was
gonna happen? And you well, I've never done that, but
you know that.

Speaker 4 (09:22):
But don't worry.

Speaker 5 (09:23):
I had It's okay, I'm okay.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
No truth, you never had, no true at all.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
No, and my friends know. I call it the devil's lettuce.

Speaker 6 (09:35):
Why did they let you in? The lyricsis lounge?

Speaker 8 (09:37):
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 8 (09:39):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
It can happen. I'm gonna leave bloom or two trades. Yeah,
I will guide you through this.

Speaker 5 (09:47):
Yeah, I've been I've been saying. I mean, I have
so many stories about me thinking I'm gonna walk that
way and.

Speaker 6 (09:52):
Wait till fifty. Just go ahead of wait till fifty.

Speaker 5 (09:54):
Okay, maybe it'll be my fiftieth birthday, You're gonna send
me a package.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
I'll leave the light one for you. Trust me, I
got I got you, Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
So I always wanted to know, as far as you're
growing up as concerned and that you were paired with
other kids that were sort of in the same position
as you, at what point, at any point, did you
ever had to adjust in a world in which people
weren't of that sort of cut from that that same cloth,

(10:24):
where you had to deal with everyday people, Like, at
what point.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
Were you every day in life? I mean I was,
you know.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
I First of all, the way I was raised again
is everybody is a person.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
I am one of people. I was not raised to
think I was better than anybody.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
I had certain different opportunities and experiences than other people,
but I was always taught to connect on the places
that we are the same. We've all got blood running
through our veins, and we all have feelings, and we all,
most of us are getting up every day trying to
do our best and work our hardest and and sort
of make at least our lives work.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
And function properly.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
So I also come I don't know if I was
top this, if I came up with this, if.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
You know, but to sort of put my.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
My humanness as the front runner of who I am not.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
And first of all, I didn't do that. My mom
did all those things.

Speaker 8 (11:23):
She did.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
She keep you around like a couple of Detroit cousins
just to make sure it does y'all new.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
I went to Detroit every summer, and that's how you
do it.

Speaker 5 (11:32):
Yeah, on a palette on the floor and on Bobby's
house up the street from Grandmammy and Aunt.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
Bobby sat me.

Speaker 5 (11:39):
Between her legs and did my hair with that goodie
comb and tried to kill my scalp. And you know, Grandmommy,
my Grandma lined us up outside the fancy bathroom downstairs
and put all the cousins and put mayonnaise in our
hair on the on the laid on the kitchen sink,
put our head in the sink, and then filled our
hair with mayonnaise. You had to walk around smell on
like a sandwich forever to getition your hair.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
I mean, all all of our cousins and boys and girls.
It wasn't just the girl. The girls like the boys
and girl.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
We all got lined up step and Monica Kevin Kevin
we all just line up.

Speaker 6 (12:11):
We see that in Rainbow. That is so beautiful, that's dope,
it's funny.

Speaker 5 (12:15):
So so yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like, we weren't
sheltered to be up in some crystal palace somewhere, although.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
We lived, you know, in a hotel, and I'm not
to work in.

Speaker 5 (12:28):
A rolls at the school at a rolls verse every
day with a driver by the name of Bartha.

Speaker 8 (12:32):
But that's.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
As you do.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
Wait a minute, okay, so yeah, like, okay, so these
things also did happen.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
I'm not saying they didn't, but.

Speaker 6 (12:47):
Wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 9 (12:50):
Christmas in a ritz.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
But then we were in Detroit in the summer.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
So they did you.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
I know that singing at least when when I first
met you in the early arts, singing was always a
big passion of yours. With a household like yours, in
an environment like you grew up in, how easy was
it for you to express the desire to want to
do something in the arts or not be shy about.

Speaker 5 (13:20):
It, Like Harry, My mother supported us in finding our
version of expression in whatever that looked like.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
But you know, are you the only singing ross?

Speaker 5 (13:32):
No, Roonda is a singer.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
Evan's a singer. I'm the last.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
I forgot your brother, Evan Ross.

Speaker 4 (13:40):
That's okay, I'm the last to the party.

Speaker 5 (13:42):
And it's so funny because I remember, I can't remember
how many years ago it was, but my mom was
in Vegas and on stage and she was like, you know,
my children sing.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
Blah blah blah whatever, and I want to bring someone
up to sing with me.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
And I'm like standing there, like, go ahead, Evan, go ahead,
you know whatever, and she said.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
My name, and I was like, with what's happening right now?
I was like, this is not my thing. I'm the
funny one. What are we doing? What's happening?

Speaker 5 (14:07):
And she made me sing on stage and it was
so hilarious because if you watch the video, you see.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
My mom turn into my mom and thinks, oh no.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
Did I just put Tracy put my baby in a
position that she didn't want to be in inadvertently, like
did I make her put her, you know, too exposed
on something that makes her shy?

Speaker 4 (14:31):
And she sort of she got this tone in her
voice that was such.

Speaker 5 (14:34):
My mom's tone of okay, everybody be quiet because this
is important, like we need we need to support this moment?

Speaker 4 (14:41):
Be quiet?

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Are you speaking of the infamous when she puts people
on the spot to sing reach out in touch?

Speaker 5 (14:47):
No, she put me on stage and had me sing
sing like Billie Holiday. Oh, Like I was sing that
around the house and she was like, go ahead, did you?
Because every time I mean, I sang in high school
and whatever, every time I sang.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
When I was twenty two, my mom said to me,
all right, Tracy, it's time. And I was like, it's
time for what? She's like, it's time for you to
record an album?

Speaker 5 (15:11):
And I was like, hell, no, no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
No no no, I'm gonna go the other way.

Speaker 5 (15:18):
Nope, We're gonna make people laugh and we're just gonna
keep them at arm's length and that'll be good.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
But why, Okay, in hindsight, why do you think that
was your decision?

Speaker 5 (15:29):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (15:29):
For a lot of reasons.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
I think unconsciously, I the idea of being.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
Compared to my mom was just too much to think of.

Speaker 5 (15:39):
I had also seen children of be obliterated in the press,
just shredded, And you think back to that time and
being the child of or any of those things.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
That's not that was not cool.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
Then that was not something that was also the time
when you didn't move from TV to movies, when you
didn't move from being a host to an actor, Like
everything was very pigeonholed, and there certainly wasn't this spirit
of oh, you're Dona Ross as child. Maybe you want
to say, well, no, not at all. And I look

(16:16):
like my mom, And the truth is I sound kind
of like her. So you know, there was no you
put you as soon as you put a sparkly dress
on me. I mean, I've seen it now, I've won
a Golden Globe. I've been doing working in the I'm
forty eight years old. I'm not a child anymore, and
I still cannot do anything without my mom's name.

Speaker 4 (16:39):
Like maybe my mom is just like it's she's larger,
she's an.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Interesting let me but let me interject.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
I definitely now feel as though, you know, to Dinah Ross,
it's like, yo, Tracy Ellis is your daughter, Like, yeah,
you've done You've definitely done something that is I don't
know if any person, maybe Janet Overcoming who her her
brothers were to be in her own right, but.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, like you made your own name though, Yeah, yeah, you're.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
When history books are written like you know, you have
your own and not even to compare like that, you know,
like we can.

Speaker 5 (17:22):
All well that was part of what I came to,
I mean and understood it's like and an adult mind
can look at it that way, but a kid cannot.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
And so now I.

Speaker 6 (17:32):
Know, like I'm not my mom right.

Speaker 4 (17:35):
Like I'm not trying to be here, I'm not like never,
that's not what's happening. But as a kid, you think you.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Know and you have something that's really super special. I
was going to ask you because your production company is
named Joy Mills, but I'm assuming that you're aware that
you have that superpower and that's why you named it that.
Are you aware that like Tracy Ella's Ross is a
joy bringer.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
That like makes my heart very very full.

Speaker 6 (18:04):
I'm just trying to tell you.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
My I was born Tracy Joy Silverstein. That's my name,
so right.

Speaker 6 (18:14):
Now, so because I'm like, well what about mister Ellen.

Speaker 5 (18:18):
Okay, okay, go ahead, Okay, So this is and that
was the third point okay about my dad.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
So when I joined so like many kids, uh so.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
Then I was Tracy Joy Ross Silberstein. All through growing up,
t j R S were my initials all through growing up.
But then, like so many people, you dropped this name.
That name is too long. I was Tracy Joy Ross.
You know what I mean, drop these names too many names.
So I became Tracy Joy Ross. And then when I
joined SAG there was another Tracy Ross.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
In the Union. Remember Tracy Ross. She was.

Speaker 5 (18:55):
Yes.

Speaker 8 (18:56):
I thought, yeah, that very god she grew up.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
Wow, I didn't know you were my age.

Speaker 6 (19:05):
I thought like, you know, we don't all look alike.
They looked nothing alive.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
I heard the name Tracy Ellis. I remember watching that
Tracy Ross on Star Search.

Speaker 6 (19:15):
He was a hero.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
And then she thought like, oh, that's Diana Ross's daughter.
That's the one she talked about.

Speaker 5 (19:21):
When I joined the Union, there was another Tracy Ross.
So they were like, uh, do you want to be
Tracy Joy Ross in the Union? And I was like yes,
But everybody like I look like my mom, and people
know I'm my mom's child and I'm so much a
product of both of my parents, Like.

Speaker 4 (19:38):
I am my dad's child and I'm my mom's child.
And I wanted him to have a steak.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
You know, it's so crazy because I talk so much
about women and women of color, and particularly black and
brown women that we historically have not had a steak
in what we make, and even with our children, we
give up our name, and so there's often this you
can't I even follow our bloodline because of that. But
we have been at the center of economic, cultural, political

(20:06):
revolutions in this country, and we are often doing the work,
but not centered in the prize from that work. And
strangely enough, I was worried about my dad having a
piece of what he made, and so I put Ellis
in my name and I became Tracy Ellis Ross at
the beginning of my career, and my first you know,

(20:28):
SAG card was Tracy Ellis Ross. And now you know,
my name goes up there and people go and Bob
Elis's kid.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Okay, what was the first major creative thing that you
at least for you, What was the first major creative
thing that you did as far as doing television or
commercials or well, the.

Speaker 5 (20:50):
First big thing I did was the gap ad with
my mom. Yeah, and I remember it was on billboards
and it was like a big.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
Wall in airport.

Speaker 5 (21:00):
I walked through and I was just like, oh my god,
I made fifteen hundred dollars and I thought I had made.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
I was like, I'm rich. I don't my mother.

Speaker 6 (21:12):
I'm rich.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
I was like, that was so amazing. I could pay
my own doctor's fees. I can just I can make
my own food.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Was a crowd.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
I was so much money. I was like, I was like,
I will never work again.

Speaker 5 (21:35):
I actually think it was it was seven hundred and
fifty dollars and then I think I made fifteen hundred
on the first show I did. But then the next
thing was I did an Infinity commercial. So I was
modeling with Wilhelmine Agency and I went in for.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
A modeling like commercial job and go see.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
And at the place where they were doing it, they
were like, the people that are doing me. It was
a secret deodorant ad I went in for and there
was a sign in sheet next to it for Infinity
car commercial and whoever ran the commercial audition place was like,
you should go in and try for the Infinity commercial.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
And I was like, oh, yes, of course I'll drive.

Speaker 5 (22:19):
So I went in and that was the job that
taft heart lead me into SAG, which is the job
that will pay the money to get you into SAG.

Speaker 10 (22:29):
And yeah, I just love the idea that Tracy Els
had to Taft Hartley. I mean, I've done that and
it just just makes me laugh. That's okay, keep continuing, please,
But also also, why are there not people with multiple
names in SAG? Couldn't there be multiple Tracy?

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Really?

Speaker 6 (22:46):
But Nessa Williams Remember Vanessa william.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
L Williams Vanessa L Williams. Yeah, well shit, okay, cool, Yeah,
I learned something again.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
So I got taft heart lead in.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
I did that commercial and then I don't know.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
I mean, it has not been a fast and easy
road for me.

Speaker 5 (23:08):
I remember there was a movie called Mixing Nia that
Karen Parsons from Fresh Press. She ended up getting that movie,
and I've never been more devastated in my life.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Really.

Speaker 7 (23:21):
I was like, I mean, I was sure a meror
that this was going to launch me into.

Speaker 8 (23:27):
The stratosphere of the Roscar.

Speaker 7 (23:30):
I was going to the Academy Awards with my seven
hundred and fifty dollars from my gap aad. I was
going to march my way into Hollywood and be received
with open arms for a career that would last a lifetime.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
Didn't happen.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
What is that process like? Like your version of the
Hollywood Shuffle? As far as callbacks near missus, what did
you audition for that you didn't get?

Speaker 6 (23:57):
Oh my god, I don't even remember.

Speaker 5 (23:58):
I had a three ring binder, like one of those
Whopper three ringfinders of like every audition I had auditioned for.

Speaker 6 (24:05):
I didn't care.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
You keep all the receipts of everything.

Speaker 5 (24:08):
I didn't get nothing, really well, because according to us,
it's like Daddy's Girls.

Speaker 6 (24:14):
I had no in right, Like, I'm trying to think no, no, no, no.

Speaker 5 (24:18):
There from from the time that I did I did
Far Harbor, that first movie I did with Jennifer Connelly
and Marsha k Harden. Okay, so I did that, and
then I did the show and before that, I did
the show The Dish on Lifetime.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
That was because I'm a TV girl. I live in
your TV and I'm a TV girl, like like it
was like.

Speaker 5 (24:44):
A magazine show about TV shows.

Speaker 6 (24:50):
What nothing? He ain't say nothing, he says, she.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Said, first, I'm like.

Speaker 6 (24:58):
I started watching Lifetime.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah, okay, you know.

Speaker 5 (25:02):
And and then I got an agent and auditioned and
auditioned and auditioned and auditioned and auditioned and auditioned and
auditioned and auditioned, and I auditioned some more and I
didn't get many callbacks, and then they dropped me. And
this is what they said.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
It stuck with me for a really long time.

Speaker 5 (25:23):
Listen, Tracy, We're gonna let you go because you come
with all these bells and whistles, but then you get
in the room and you just don't pop?

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Would you face bitch?

Speaker 4 (25:40):
I could, but you know what, it was a turning
point for crazy.

Speaker 5 (25:43):
I could not get out of there without those you know,
those tears they sit.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
There because you're so ha you know those office chairs
with the wheels of the the wheels on the bottom
of them.

Speaker 5 (26:01):
I felt like my heart had come out and it
was like stuck underneath the wheel and she kept moving
the chair and it was just getting all tangled in
there with my heart and then there was blood and
stuff and then the tears, and I couldn't get out
fast enough. But I made a decision at that point.
I remember calling my sister.

Speaker 11 (26:20):
I called I was like, I don't I don't wop I.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
Know no popper.

Speaker 6 (26:36):
Stand up.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
At any point, did you ever consider dropping the ross
from your name? It was too late the thought that like, okay,
maybe they're holding that against me, like my lineage and well, you.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Know I used to say that.

Speaker 7 (26:52):
People were like, well, doesn't being done roszda open doors
for you?

Speaker 5 (26:55):
And I was like, no, what it does is and
unlocks the door. And then people sit on the other
side like, going, how's she going.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
To walk in?

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (27:03):
They're like, okay, show us what. But I don't think
that had anything to do with it. I think I sucked.

Speaker 5 (27:10):
I think I didn't know how to bring the person
that I was inside myself and in the privacy of
my home out into the world. And I needed that
hit in order to ask myself, did I have the
courage to do what it took to bring.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
That person out? Or did I just.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
Want to go back into my hole and sort of
live privately as I chose?

Speaker 8 (27:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
That was Tracy Ellis Ross.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
And next up is Shirley Jones at The Jones Girls
and this clip she speaks about the power of Tracy's mom,
Diana Ross, and the sexism that went into see a
strong black woman who was a perfectionist and the early
nineteen seventies. Shirley also tells how Diana made a way
for her as an artist outside of an accomplished background singer.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Shirley also speaks about a powerful anthem for women nineteen
seventy nine, so You're Gonna make Me love somebody.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Else sampled by Jay Z, as well as being covered
by Escape in the nineteen nineties. There's some great history here,
Shirley Jones from twenty twenty one.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
What was it like to finally land that job?

Speaker 8 (28:30):
It was amazing. We actually, we were perfectly happy. We
had just moved to Detroit to LA with McKinley Jackson.
He was managing us at the time, and we were
perfectly happy doing background sessions because because we were doing
like three and four day it was either us or
the waters that people wanted to do their water back then,

(28:54):
Oh yeah, those are my buddies. Yeah, it was either
us or them. That's who we were, those premier groups
for background singing back then. And McKinley said, well, you know,
Diana's auditioning for some singers and she's been turning everybody down,
and you know, and I and he said, you guys
want to try We like Diana. Yeah, I mean, you know,

(29:15):
we're from Detroit. Hey, let's give it a shot. And
so we went up there actually thinking we were singing
for gil Aski, her music director and her road manager
Don Peak up lower canyon somewhere and we went up
there and McKinley started playing. We had rehearsed ain't no
mountain high enough and reach out and touch somebody's hand

(29:36):
for our audition, and right in the middle of singing,
who comes down the hall but Diana Ross and yeah,
And the only words out of her mouth was, you
guys are terrific. Can you get passports? We're going to London?
And we, of course, you know, we were like, yeah,

(29:58):
we can go to London, but we had to work
out some things on our contract because of our background singing,
which she did allow. We traveled seven months of the
year with her, and then when she was on hiatus,
she did allow us to keep our background singing. Career.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
For other artists, I failed you, she ailed you and retainer,
but you were allowed to We were.

Speaker 8 (30:19):
Allowed to sing, right, but we were still getting you know,
we were getting half of our paycheck when she was
when she wasn't working, but she still allowed us to
do our singing, our background singing. And over the years
I have defended and set said so many people have said,
what was she like? I hear, you know, she's this,

(30:40):
she's that, and the other. I said, let me just
tell you one thing. She was the hottest entertainer in
the world back in the seventies. Absolutely nobody was bigger
than Diana Ross except maybe Frank Sinatra. And she was
a perfectionist. She was a female, and she was demanding.

(31:02):
She demanded that her from her band to her singers
to be as into the show and rehearse and be
on top of your gig as she was. And because
that was drilled in us, and that's what we did. Anyway.
She was absolutely one of the best people to work for,

(31:24):
and she was so concerned for us because up until
we went to London with her, the only places we
had been was Detroit surrounding areas and then California. And
she loved and respected our sounds so much that after
the European tour is when she came to us, she

(31:46):
was getting ready to do her yearly twice a year
residency at Caesar's Palace, and she came to us and said,
you know, you girls are too good to be singing
background behind me or anybody else whatever, So you know,
I changed clothes at least five times in my show.
I want you to get a song together and i
want you to sing it. I'm gonna bring you out

(32:08):
the Jones sisters and I'm gonna introduce you to the world.
And that's actually she did that. We chose if I
Ever Lose This Heaven from Quincy Jones' album that was
hot back then, and uh, that's how we got with
gamb One Huff at the theater, yeah, the subar s Yeah,
from the Schubert Theater, and she called us and Cynthia

(32:30):
Biggs and Dexter Wanzelle they were in the audience and
they said all they could think about and look at
during the whole show was us. They kept saying, you
hear those girls, you hear her background singers, they're tearing
it up and Gambling Huff came backstage and they said,
you guys are terrific. Are you signed with anybody? And
we're like no, And we're like, oh my god, gamb

(32:51):
when I'm asking us if we're signed with anybody? And
so we went back to LA and within a month
we had our attorneys did we worked out the deal,
and within two months we were flown to Philadelphia to
work on that first Jones Girls album.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Wow, Yes, that's amazing, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Wait a minute, I always wanted to know was this
the tour where she would it would start with the
video thing with the guys carrying her open.

Speaker 8 (33:25):
No, No, this was before then, okay, because.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
I always wanted to know how she did that illusion. No, Okay,
I was a kid when I see it, like a
long time ago.

Speaker 8 (33:35):
But yeah, wow.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Can you also talk about like the gig with her
and how it was different than other background kids as
far as like she said she changed her clothes five times,
did you guys get to change your clothes? Did you
have the same outfit you had to wear every night
or what? Because it was Diana Ross, y'all had like
a nice rotation, and what did.

Speaker 6 (33:52):
She require before every show?

Speaker 3 (33:53):
As far as we hur soul and stuff like that,
it's the comparison to everybody else you work for.

Speaker 8 (34:00):
With her being a perfectionist. We rehearsed a lot before
we would go out on tour with her. I mean
we rehearsed a lot. And yes she did curse. She
would come in there and if you if the bad
and she never had to curse with us because we
were gonna be on top of our game. But if
she would, she would curse them out. And I and
you know, and I often tell people, I said, now,

(34:21):
if she were a man like Frank Sinatra coming out
cursing because somebody wasn't doing their absolute best and she
felt that they should be, he'd be applauded. He would
be applauded and said, oh, he's just such a strong individual.
He's he'd make sure that, you know. But because she's
a woman, and she was that demanding at that time,

(34:42):
you know, women weren't supposed to, you know, come if
you done, weren't doing your job. You were supposed to
be demure and say well would you please? You know,
she would come in there cursing like us, saying oh, yeah.

Speaker 6 (34:53):
Beyond it makes me think of Beyonce is allowed to
be today?

Speaker 8 (34:56):
Yeah exactly, So I gets I give I give her
kudos because she was demanding, yes she was, but she
was also she would she would also make sure that
she was doing the you know, as far as rehearsing too,
she was always always immaculate, impeccable. Two people that I

(35:17):
learned the most from as far as entertaining myself. I
always say, is Diana Ross and Eddie Lebert from the
o Jays because they are show people. Absolutely show people
can't wait to hear.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
What can Yeah, I want I want to know for you?

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Or is it a thing where the grass is greener
On the other side, do you prefer studio sessions or
do you prefer uh traveling? This I'm talking in strictly
in terms of your days as a background singer.

Speaker 8 (35:50):
As a background singer, I prefer being in the studio. Yeah,
I prefer being in the studio because I'm more of
a like Well, when we were traveling doing background for her,
that was exciting because that was the first time we
you know, we're traveling doing background and making money. But now,
I mean I prefer doing studio work versus traveling singing

(36:12):
background for someone.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Isn't it a bigger pressure though in the studio because
I'm almost certain that there's you know, there's really not
enough time for you to you borderline, have to catch
it and perfect it in you know, in a short
amount of time, I would assume correct, Yes.

Speaker 8 (36:32):
Yeah, in real time. That's one of the reasons why
but so many people wanted us to do background because
they knew that we were going to rehearse so much
so that when we got in the studio, you know,
time is money, we would knock that stuff out just
like that. That's why some some sometimes we would have
two and three sessions a day because we were able to.

(36:52):
We would rehearse and practice our parts for whoever, and
to make sure that when we went in the studio
bam bam bam, we could do it. And you know,
back in the day, you're talking about eight tracks, and
you're talking about not being able to sing one little
part and then they fly it through the song. You
had to sing that exact same way four and five,
you know, three to double it and and uh so.

(37:15):
And I think that's one of the reasons why the
artists today today don't as far as live performances. They
cannot do it like us that were trained to have
to sing a song all the way through three and
four different times to stack that harmony and sound the
exact same way each time.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Right, I see, I agree. I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Curious who were your peers or I don't want to
say competitors, but who were the peers who if you
can't get the Jones sisters.

Speaker 6 (37:46):
You know, we should call so and so the waters.

Speaker 8 (37:49):
That was it. It was ya and it was us
in California for the longest. Yeah, that was it.

Speaker 6 (37:55):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 8 (37:56):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, So what I know you mentioned working under Holadozah
Holland when you came to Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
What year was that.

Speaker 8 (38:08):
We went to Los Angeles in nineteen seventy five? Yeah,
about seventy five seventy six, that's when Motown moved and
then you know they had given Hollandojah Holland the Invictus
and the music Merchant labels, right, and I think Motown
moved what in seventy three seventy four, and then those

(38:29):
like McKinley and Hollandojah Holland moved out I think seventy five.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
So it was just basically everyone in Detroit was migrating
to Los Angeles and we might as well follow suit
and follow them as well.

Speaker 8 (38:40):
Follow them exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
I see.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Could you tell me, like, what other notable acts were
you singing background for that we might not be aware of.

Speaker 8 (38:50):
Helen Ready share songs? Yeah, Helen Ready. Oh my god,
somebody just posted it the other day. I forgot that
song that we did for her, we did the entire
album because she just passed I think recently, and someone
posted it.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
And share I share like half read or take Me Home.

Speaker 8 (39:12):
Or I forgot what song. But the song that we
did do for share, I don't think it made the album, okay,
but we did a session. We did a session because
we did two songs with her and they never met.
I don't think they made the album. Now, somebody's gonna
probably prove me wrong and post it.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
You know, I know that you've done background on some
notable affilly international songs as well.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
So am I to assume.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
That you're you're basically all the female voices that I
hear on like You'll never find another love like Mine
and those those songs as well, like with Lou Rawl's.

Speaker 8 (39:50):
And now we did do Lou Rawl's album. There was
a group of girls in Philadelphia, Okay, I can't think
of their names that were doing and a lot of
background singing for Gambling them because once we became the
Jones girls, you know, we didn't do as much background
singing for other people once we got with Gambling Huff

(40:11):
in seventy nine, just select people, you know, when we
had the time because you know, with you're going to
make me love somebody else coming out the box being
so big, we immediate get Gamble, immediately sent us to
Ohio with Charlie Atkins, who put the OJS and Temptations

(40:32):
with him, and we were we were rehearsing to go
out on tour with the OJS. Oh yes, oh man.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
He.

Speaker 5 (40:46):
Was.

Speaker 8 (40:46):
He was. And I have two left feet, so he
was always on me. He was constantly on me because
I'm not. I was the only one that couldn't dance.
Brendan Valleie could dance, you know, and me, I'd always
tried to, Well, I'm saying and lead anyway. Can I
just stand on? No, you cannot. You're gonna do those
You're doing them too, girl. So oh he was a testent.

(41:08):
You just just eat a banana. Eat a banana before
you come in here to rehearsal for that potassium so
you could move those feet. He was a drill master.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
No, I heard every every act that's ever worked with him.
Oh wait, what what period were you guys?

Speaker 8 (41:28):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (41:29):
With Aretha Franklin.

Speaker 8 (41:31):
We did the Almighty Fire album with her.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Oh God, yes, only only say this.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Because the kind of the kind of household I grew
up in. I would. I grew up with.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Three binge shoppers when it came to records, so like
every week, stacks and stacks and stacks of forty five
stacks and stacks and stacks of thirty three's would.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Come in the house.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
The thing is is that I would get the records
that my parents didn't want. So, you know, as far
as my Aretha collection, like there there was a period
like Almighty Fire, the U record all the way up
to La Diva, like basically the post Sparkle records that
really weren't hitting the same right I inherited, So I

(42:21):
know all those like Sweet Passion, like all those Aretha
records that weren't quite you know up there with the
legacy albums.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
What was it like?

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Oh god, and she was wearing that space suit too, yep,
the Green Space I remember that that period.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
What was it like?

Speaker 2 (42:39):
And how intimidating is it you know working with her?
Or was she just you know, another Detroit person that
you could connect with.

Speaker 8 (42:49):
Well, we had sang as children at her father's church
with my mother one Sunday when we were there. I
believe it was one of her father's anniversary, and we
knew that she was going to be there. At that time,
she was she was a superstar. She had respect out,
you know, she was like and they said she was

(43:10):
going to be at the church. And after we performed,
she came up to my mother and said, boy, those
are some singing girls you got there. And then fast
forward like fifteen years later, we were doing Almighty Fire.
And what a lot of people don't know is that
when that Sparkle movie was, you know, they were looking
for the actor, the actors and actresses for that movie.

(43:33):
Aretha Franklin and Kenny Gamble wanted us to play the sisters.
Aretha put pitched in for She wanted us to do
it because because of our voices and we had just
sang on her album, and Kenny felt that that would

(43:54):
be a great We were the you know, the Jones girls.
He felt that we were just coming out that they
sent us to New York and a limo and uh
it was uh. I think they both were very and
I know we were disappointed, Uh, especially when uh and
you know Aretha she was activist, but back then, especially

(44:15):
when those girls, they you know, was very light, bright
girls that got the part her thing was to them
was you know this, this is ridiculous. Those girls can
you know they they're they're singers and they could be
taught to be actresses too, and she she was quite
upset about that.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
So there was almost a chance that you could have yeah, sparkle.

Speaker 6 (44:39):
Yes sing the songs.

Speaker 8 (44:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Was there was there ever a background gig that you
had that was like a little too intimidating or that
you you know, it was just all right to you.

Speaker 8 (44:55):
Now, we we no matter who the artist was, and
there were a lot of artists that you know, hadn't
even made it yet. But you know, if we liked
the song, and you know, they they were willing to pay,
because pay the money, you know, we were we would
do it and we would give our best. And the
thing that a lot of people don't know is that

(45:16):
for another reason why so many people liked us is
because we created a lot of those backgrounds. They knew
that if they gave us the song, we were going
to create the background parts. Yeah, I mean arrangement, some
some on some for a lot. Now some did come with,

(45:38):
you know, specific backgrounds, but our reputation became such that
they'd be like Okay, well, hey, here's the song. What
do you guys think you know, no Norman Connors, Lou Rawls.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (45:57):
Else that we they've let us do, just you know,
control the background. God, it's so many people.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Just songs. But you were just like artists that were like,
it don't matter what song I'm doing. Let the Jones girls.

Speaker 8 (46:09):
Come in here and do and do our thing. Now.
Brenda was alive because her memory is so much better
than mine. She she she can remember every single artist
we did background on and everything. But but me, it
gets a little fuzzy sometime because when people post stuff
now and I'll be like, oh, yeah, I remember that
we did do that song, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
So so with with signing to Philly International, I'll say
that probably in my opinion, because you know, we my
dad purchased all the records and played it at the
house all the time, I will say that you guys

(46:51):
were probably given them more contemporary, up to date town
than a lot of the acts that were on Philly
International back then. Like it was almost a thing where
you know, you knew instantly within the first two seconds
that you were listening to a Filly International song based
on like the trademark of the strings and all the

(47:12):
mixing on the record or whatever, but like, You're gonna
make me love somebody else sounded nothing like what Philadelphia,
especially what was happening in nineteen seventy nine, if anything, right, Yeah,
because it.

Speaker 6 (47:28):
Was like a woman telling me you better get your
shit together.

Speaker 8 (47:30):
Right exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, So what I mean, I would assume that it's
still the same group of people, like it's still dexter
Anzel and Gambling Huff and all those Well, I know
McKinley Jackson also worked on the record as well, But right, like,
what was the discussion basically on how to present you

(47:53):
guys in your sound.

Speaker 8 (47:56):
That's one of the things that I think Gamble and
Hope they were purposely trying to take us away just
a little bit for from the the strings and horns
of like say, like of what they did with three
Degrees three Degrees, and wanted they wanted us to be
more funky, more soulful, more R and B And if

(48:21):
you noticed the very first Jones Girls album, that's exactly
I mean. I'm at your Mercies on there, which is
a you know, heart wrenching ballad.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (48:32):
Then of course there's You're Gonna make Me love somebody else? Yeah, exactly,
So yeah, who Can I Run To? Us? Yep?

Speaker 1 (48:44):
What were your feelings on?

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Of course, not what your feelings on were you How
did it feel for Escape to sort of reintroduce that
song onto a holy generation?

Speaker 8 (48:57):
Yeah? When I when I heard it, when I first
heard it, it was well nineteen ninety five, so by
that time it was sixteen years future from when we
did it, and so many I remember so many of
the producers when Gambled back in the day, you know,
you had a A side and a B side on records,

(49:20):
and who Can I Run To? Was on the B side.
So many people did not want Gamble to put that.
They said, put show love today, put anything on that
on the B side of You're Gonna make Me Love
somebody else? Besides who Can I Run To? Because that
is a that is a single of its own. But
of course that didn't happen. So n I mean we

(49:41):
you know, we were working and and the girls and
I had broken up by then, and when we heard
who Can I Run To? I was happy actually because
back then when their record came out, there were so
many DJs that were, you know, into new that we
had done it first, because people used to flip it

(50:04):
on the radio sometimes and play who Can I Run to?
So what they would do is like, yeah, I know
you guys love this one by Escape, but guess what
Escape didn't do it first the Jones. Then they would
play our version too and have people call in which
version they like the best, and all of that. And
I happened to the girls on a radio show some

(50:27):
years back, and they said, we hope we did a
good job, but we just love you guys and love
you all sound. And I told them, I said, you
all did a great job because what you did was
you brought back a lot of attention to the Jones girls,
so I was saying, I told them, I said, so, hey,
thank you, thank you all, because it brought back some attention.

(50:48):
Because I mean, up until you know, from sixteen years later,
you know, we had kind of died out, like we
weren't together anymore. We had done we would do some
things occasionally over in Europe, but it was it brought
back a lot of attention and put that Jones girl's
name back out there.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
And last week's episode, we heard an excerpt from my
one on one with Kathleen Henna. A few years earlier,
we spoke to Sleeeder Kenny, and in this group, Carrie
and Korn speak about Kathleen's influence and the Riot Girl movement.
You also hear about being a part of a strong
community and the challenges of fame and success coming out

(51:32):
of that. At what point for the both of you,
are you realizing that you have a voice or that
music is something that you're interested in pursuing, not just
something that casually that just happens, you know, in your household.

Speaker 12 (51:52):
I think for me, I I moved to Olympia to
go to college. I went to like, you know, the
Evergreen State College when all of the stuff was happening,
and I have to credit Bikini Kill and Brat Mobile
playing a show, and I was just I just got

(52:13):
to be like right up close, like right there when
they were doing their thing, and I was like, I
want to do that. I'm going to start a band,
and I in my head I started a band Like
that night. I was just like I'm in I'm doing
it too, okay, you know, because I saw them do it.
They were my age and they were they were just

(52:33):
starting out, and so it just like opened the door.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
He explained to me the whole idea of what Rye
Girl represents, and is that a title that was invented
by the proprietors or again, was it some guy from
Spin magazine sort of searching for the next big thing
and then said, okay, this right girl with a bunch
of rs in it.

Speaker 12 (52:57):
No, it was it was actually like a a genuine movement,
you know. It was the title was you know, started
by a young woman in DC who was like, we
need to start an actual movement for women in the
independent music scene that that highlights women's roles and supports

(53:20):
women and talks about safe spaces for women. And there
were meetings. You could go to a meeting you could
talk about all these things. You could talk about, you know,
being in a bad relationship, sexual assault, like all.

Speaker 13 (53:33):
Of the kind of like taboo stuff at.

Speaker 9 (53:35):
The time at that time.

Speaker 12 (53:37):
Yeah, at the time, there just wasn't another space for
that stuff to come out and happen.

Speaker 8 (53:42):
So it was it was very real. It was very.

Speaker 13 (53:45):
Taboo at the time.

Speaker 12 (53:47):
And you know Kathleen Hannah was she was you know,
very much like a cultural leader, right, she was like
our poet because she was writing this stuff that she
was incredible poet, incredible writer and performer, you know, and
very confrontational. But she was saying all the stuff that

(54:09):
we were all like so afraid to say ourselves.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Okay, So the first time I met Kathleen Hanna, I
didn't know I was mean, Like I didn't know anything
about Rye girl whatever. Like the Roots are just doing
a show somewhere up in Seattle. I forget the spot
in Seattle that we were playing. I know it was
across the sheet from the spot where they throw fish.

Speaker 9 (54:34):
Oh yeah, the showbox.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Yeah, we were at the showbox. Yeah, I'll say that. Yeah,
I met.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Matter of fact, the first three times I've met or
seen Kathleen, she was like cursing someone out like it
was always like.

Speaker 5 (54:49):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
And my manager of Rich was they those two were
like really good friends. So he's sort of my manager
who passed away. Him and her really became good friends.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
And you know, he just liked, that makes all the sense.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Oh my god, you see it down here and you describe,
Oh my god, that makes ye.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Oh that's how it really shit, Like my shit is
all trickles down.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Economics were Rich and him, Him and Kathleen were like
talking whatever, Like I mean, but she was just I've
never seen the person so just wild and unhinged and
just told what the fuck she felt and all that.
Like I was just like, yoh, this is unheard of whatever.
So that that was like my introduction to her. She
was cool and very nice to us, but like in

(55:32):
a second, she will she'll bring the ruckus and I've
just never seen that shit, so you know, and I
don't really be like, oh intense or whatever, but that's
what it was like for me meeting her. So could
you tell me what the environment was, at least at
the time in the Northwest that really prompted this movement
to really find its legs.

Speaker 12 (55:55):
Yeah, I mean, you know, the Northwest was was this
hotbed of like independent music. So there was all of
this like criticism of mainstream music that was you know,
that wasn't genuine, It wasn't you know, real art and everything.
And this music scene was about you know, like real

(56:20):
people telling their stories and making music available to everyone,
so you know, five dollars shows.

Speaker 13 (56:25):
And all of that.

Speaker 12 (56:26):
But it was also this kind of like slam dancing,
rather violent culture at every show, and so there was
just not a lot of space for women to feel like,
am I going to be safe going to this show?
Am I going to feel like I you know, my
voice is heard? And the roles for women were still

(56:48):
like oh yeah, you know, my boyfriend's.

Speaker 13 (56:51):
In that band, and right, and.

Speaker 12 (56:53):
And just like when we're still yeah a foil. And
so when you had a personality like Kathleen who was
like protagonist, right, so she was like center stage at
all times, it was like an arrow like shot through
our hearts. It was like, I want to be like that.

(57:16):
Like I'm I was a shy, awkward, kind of academic
type kid. But I saw someone just like take control
of the stage, be like I have a story to
tell and everyone in this room is going to listen,
And that just opened the door.

Speaker 14 (57:31):
It kind of took feminism and you know, even though
they're definitely you know, very fair critiques of right girl,
like just like other early iterations of feminism, it lacked intersectionality,
and you know, it was it was largely white women,
although there was tons of women of color there as well,
but it definitely took feminism out of an academic context

(57:56):
and gave it a very like punk, very colloquial vernacular.
It was like here was you know, like a world
of punk had just come out of like a hardcore phase,
especially on the West Coast, which was super violent. So
all of a sudden, it was like, what if we
took this movement, these ideas that are largely like in
you know, college textbooks, and just put it over three

(58:18):
courts and screamed it?

Speaker 9 (58:20):
And that was very liberating.

Speaker 14 (58:21):
I think to think that if you had a message,
it didn't necessarily need to be couched in a book,
you know, that it could be couched in a scream
or a yelp. And I think that just freed up
a lot of people to express themselves. I mean the
same way so much music just becomes like a source
of liberation for people, where it's like I have something
to say, and now I can say it over this

(58:41):
song instead of you know, writing out this exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
So what's the point where you two meet each other
and sort of talk in terms of starting a group
in and starting the beginning of Slater Kenney.

Speaker 9 (59:06):
That was yeah, I was ninety four.

Speaker 14 (59:08):
I was already living in Olympia to go to college
as as well. Koran was I think you were in
your senior year, and we were both in other bands.
Koran was in a much more like prototypical or archetypal
right girl band called Heavens to Betsy, and I was
in a band called Excuse seventeen. You know that was
that like day, those days, we were in that group.

(59:30):
To correct the Kathleen, no, she was in neither she
was in but other bands.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
I didn't know if.

Speaker 14 (59:37):
Everyone was in so many bands, okay, yeah, And so
we just saw this kindred spirit in each other, like
you know, Koran was the only her band was two people.

Speaker 9 (59:49):
Koran on guitar and a drummer.

Speaker 14 (59:52):
And then I was in a band with a similar
setup to Slater Kenney what Slater Keny would be two
guitars and drums, and we just we thought, I know,
I heard Korn sing and I was like, I would
love to be writing songs with this person. And she
heard me play guitar and had the same feeling, and
so we started playing kind of as a side project,
and then pretty quickly that became what we wanted to do.

(01:00:14):
It was just a very innate chemistry.

Speaker 10 (01:00:17):
Why was there always no bass players, I'm just just
because he didn't want them.

Speaker 8 (01:00:23):
It was.

Speaker 12 (01:00:23):
It was definitely like a thing in the northwest of like,
you know, how can we be different and not not like,
you know, sort of the archetype rock band.

Speaker 14 (01:00:35):
Yeah, and neither of us played I think it just
was played bass and we just wanted to be this
like kind of tight unit. I think there's sometimes when
you're when something is perceived as a lack, it actually
can be a strength through like how can we find
a way into these songs without the traditional instrumentation, you know,
it kind of forces you to write differently. We detuned

(01:00:55):
to see sharp, so Korn was singing in this really
high register and you know, trying to get low end
sound out of for a guitar. And yeah, I think
we used it to our advantage. Although now in the
past couple of years. You know, obviously we like bass.
Early on though people always ask us like, do you
guys not like bass? I'm like, no, ninety nine point
nine percent of all music we listened to has bass.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Okay, how long have you been playing guitar, Carrie?

Speaker 14 (01:01:20):
I started when I was fifteen, so it has been
what is that thirty years?

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Ok?

Speaker 13 (01:01:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Yeah, Corian, how long have you been playing guitar?

Speaker 13 (01:01:32):
It is it's like thirty years because I started when
I was like eighteen, so.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Okay, well resisting the temptation of making a spinal tap joke.
And I know that Janet joined the band three albums later,
but was it always the plan to sort of have
various musicians because I noticed that what determines what your
sound is probably also depends on the musicians that are
playing with you as well. So first drummer Laura McFarlane,

(01:02:02):
how do musicians come in the group and how do
they leave? Like is it just a one and done
thing or you guys are just taking this a little
more serious than the other.

Speaker 14 (01:02:11):
Or no, I mean definitely. Just to say about Janet,
and she was an integral part of the band. I
mean I wrote about it in my book when she joined,
you know, we.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Were like, yeah, that's when you jelled.

Speaker 9 (01:02:21):
Yeah, we were like this is this is great?

Speaker 14 (01:02:23):
I would I'm I am sure as people assess us,
you know, ten fifteen years from now or you know,
they're like, that will be the classic period of the band,
So you know they were never throwaway.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Being the rock and Hall of Fame, I get it.

Speaker 14 (01:02:36):
Yeah, she's a great drummer, so that Korn can talk
about Laura because yeah, she had brought her own avant
guard style for sure.

Speaker 8 (01:02:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:02:44):
I mean I think a lot of it is like
a little bit happenstance on our part, Like you know,
we went we did go to Australia thinking like, hey,
let's play music, you know, and there was there was
like this international underground music community for real, And we
wrote her a letter, We wrote like the record label

(01:03:07):
a letter, and she wrote back like yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:03:09):
Let's play music.

Speaker 12 (01:03:11):
And that's just how it happened, and you know, and
then eventually it was like, well she did come over
and we played music here, and then she was like
I kind of need.

Speaker 13 (01:03:20):
To go back to Australia. We're like, yeah, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Okay, now that you're in the game of being on
an indie label, can you just walk us through the
process of how do you manage to survive and be
creative at the same time, Like for those first few albums,
did you still have to have day jobs or was
it like, Okay, you know, we can sort of survive

(01:03:46):
off of our club gigs and what units that we're selling.

Speaker 12 (01:03:51):
I mean, I think there's there was definitely some back
and forth, you know, like there were still temp jobs.

Speaker 13 (01:03:58):
I think even after dig Me Out.

Speaker 9 (01:04:00):
I think that we kind of put this.

Speaker 12 (01:04:03):
Like idea about being creative and being control of the
creative part of things as something that was really important
to us. So we were always willing to like do
whatever other jobs needed to be done, I think, just
to like make money or whatever.

Speaker 8 (01:04:18):
I mean, we weren't.

Speaker 12 (01:04:18):
We weren't not making money from touring, and we were
always wanting to figure that out and make it better.
We were always like ambitious about that. It just it
took us a while to get there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
But at what point are you absolutely full time? We're
ban I can pay my bills, I can put cheese
or my whopper and not break the bank like.

Speaker 14 (01:04:44):
Probably dig me Out, I would say, So that's ninety seven.

Speaker 9 (01:04:48):
I mean, let's also be clear. I was living in Olympia.

Speaker 14 (01:04:52):
I think my rent was three ninety five a month,
so that doesn't take that much. You know, you can
you can play a couple of shows even as a
tiny band and make you know. So we were living
in small towns and like you know, sharehouses and stuff.
But dig me Out, I mean, one thing at the
time on indie labels was thesefit profit shares, which you know,

(01:05:14):
you just it was a split and people actually bought records.
So even though these these records weren't going gold or platinum,
you know, when dig Me out sells you know, seventy
five thousand copies or one hundred thousand copies and you have,
you know, getting fifty percent of profit share, like at
the time when you're in your early twenties, that's that's

(01:05:35):
definitely enough to live off of, even if you're splitting
it three ways.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
So by the time that you guys are out, I
also know that every major label was looking up and
down the aisles for the next big thing or whatever
I mean. So at no point, like you know, I
know you guys started off on Chainsaw and then the
lovely title Kill All rock Stars. First of all, with

(01:06:01):
with those labels, is that are there actual are these
actual labels or just like okay, well what are we
going to call the label this time? Or like is
that your label and you guys have a distribution system?
Or is Kill All walk Stars like an actual label
like sub Pop is, and you know.

Speaker 12 (01:06:21):
Yeah, no, Kill rock Stars is definitely an actual label.
And and that point I think was pretty critical for
us because after the first record came out on Chainsaw,
which was another a label run by fellow musicians, but
they were like still touring that it was Jody and

(01:06:41):
Donna from Team Drash, so that was, you know, problematic.
We did have a time when we were courted by
major labels before dig Me Out, and we considered it.
You know, we considered, we argued about it, We thought
about it like crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
So I'm gonna ask you a question, okay, because I
knew this was a parallel story with hip hop and
with with this movement, how at what point are you
able to really relax and really not live in fear
of the idea of quote unquote selling out? You know,

(01:07:20):
that shadow following you, like the perception of how we're
because the thing is is that knowing what I know
now and again because I worked backwards, I'm like, yo,
like you know, and you can even tell them that,
like with the videos that you're doing now and all
that stuff, like the humor element and all those things
that you're really showing your personalities. Whereas once I went

(01:07:41):
back to the beginning and realized like, oh okay, it
started off here and then you guys slowly blossomed into
this thing. I can imagine that the perception of who
you guys were as a group or trying to present
also probably played, you know, decisions made by the band.

(01:08:05):
And I always wanted to know, like how the perception
of being seen as sellouts or being too successful? Should
we do this commercial or should we sign to this
this label, this major label, like will we be the same?
Like how important is that perception playing in the band

(01:08:28):
at that period in you're at least for the first
three or four records, it was huge.

Speaker 14 (01:08:34):
I mean, I mean you were around during that time too.
I mean that it just was such a different beast.
You know, this this idea that somehow, you know, a
major label was going to you know, rob you of
your artistic credibility, that by aligning yourself with anything that
was corporated or commercial, you know, signified you know, something

(01:08:54):
that was anti art you know.

Speaker 9 (01:08:57):
And there were a lot of arguments.

Speaker 14 (01:08:59):
Treaties, know, books, zines, you know, and very lively polemic
and a lot of real anger, I think from people
that never really took into consideration how anyone grew up
in terms of you know, if they had money and
that you know, like it just never it was not
a very nuanced conversation, but it was very real because

(01:09:19):
you cared about your friends and to sort of admit,
you know, I want something more than I can get.
This route was really tricky, so we just we really
didn't consider it. And I was probably the most hard
line at the time. I was like the youngest, I
was the baby in the band, and I think Corn
was probably you probably were the most interested, am I right?

Speaker 13 (01:09:44):
No, Steel Magnolia is the termine years.

Speaker 12 (01:09:49):
I was always my eyes were always on the business
route more than anyone else.

Speaker 9 (01:09:53):
Yeah, she's good about that. But you know, there were
also these horror stories.

Speaker 14 (01:09:56):
You know, you would for every band that had a
decent relationship with their A and R person, there was
someone that ad signed to a major and been dropped,
you know, like a band like Spoon or like or
even coming from the Northwest, you see Nirvana, you see
this guy that was tort supposedly, you know, tortured by
the fact that you know, he no longer felt connected

(01:10:18):
to who he was and his fans. So there were
all these cautionary tales.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
In twenty twenty two, we did a two party with
Monica Lynch as the president of Tommy Boy Records, Monica
is responsible for releasing some of my favorite hip hop
by day La Skul, Queen, Antifa and others. To listen
to Monica speak, you can hear her passion and dedications
which remains today.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
And this clip she speaks about being a white woman
in a position of power and influence in a male
dominated space.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
What's cool about Monica is she also was a steadfast
supporter of afrocentric hip hop, as well as other forms
of music and sometimes marginalized communities. At this place, are
you shocked that, even though you know Sylvia Robinson was
running sugar Able Records or whatnot, were women in executive

(01:11:15):
positions really not a thing? And I'm taking it out
of hip hop just general at labels like I know
about Sylvia Ron at least her, you know, coming up
at at at Atlantic and starting east West and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
And maybe I mean Cassargramils was more.

Speaker 15 (01:11:32):
At Casablanca before then.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Well okay, well I knew about Neil Bogart, but who
was running who was at Casablanca?

Speaker 15 (01:11:40):
Well, I believe Sylvia had started.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
I did not know. Oh wow, all right, we give
fact check it.

Speaker 16 (01:11:47):
This is a great, great subject matter, And I'm really
happy you brought this up, because you know, there's a
lot of women from that early eighties period who didn't
necessarily get at their shine or necessarily get titles.

Speaker 15 (01:12:02):
I was, I think I was made president in eighty five.
I still have the press release. And why do I
have it because I had to write it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
The writing Wikipedia entry.

Speaker 15 (01:12:13):
Yeah, like, yeah, your president, Now, could you go write
this up?

Speaker 5 (01:12:16):
Yes?

Speaker 15 (01:12:16):
Okay, fine, so the but yeah, before in that.

Speaker 16 (01:12:22):
Early eighties period, I would say that the people that
really come to my mind is like women who were
doing a lot in the early hip hop labels would
be Ann Carly at Jive Records, you know who. I
actually knew Anne when she was working in the New
York office of EG Records.

Speaker 15 (01:12:39):
I used to harass her for rocky music tour tickets
and that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:44):
Uh.

Speaker 16 (01:12:44):
There was Jeanine Leclair who was at Next Plateau Records
that worked with Eddie o'lachlin.

Speaker 8 (01:12:52):
There was D. D.

Speaker 16 (01:12:55):
Joseph who worked with at Prism Records, which became you know,
which began Chill. Of course, there was Sylvia and there
were others. And I'm really sorry because I should have
prepared a list for this because it is important and
there's a lot of people who you know, it was

(01:13:17):
a bit later in the eighties when there were more
women who were getting into the business, but there were
a lot of women who were in the business then
and they just didn't necessarily get as much recognition. They
might have started as a receptionist and became press or promo.

Speaker 15 (01:13:33):
So there's there's this whole.

Speaker 16 (01:13:34):
Wave of women that were part of the even like
late seventies and early eighties, whose whose names just don't
tend to come up as much.

Speaker 15 (01:13:44):
So much in hip hop.

Speaker 16 (01:13:45):
Has been told and told again through books and documentaries
and everything, but there's still a lot of terrain that
hasn't been touched really, So.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
What's the difficulty level of you like really as far
as like pounding the desk and demanding that respect, like
do you have to be tough as nails?

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Who ran book? And uh winter? Right? And when you
have to come do you have to run it in
a winter style?

Speaker 15 (01:14:12):
And you know, no, no, well I don't yeah, no,
I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying.

Speaker 16 (01:14:20):
You know. I get asked a lot over the years,
people said, well, what was it like being a woman
in the hip hop world, or what was it like
being a white woman in the hip hop world? And
I'm like, my response is usually like, you know what,
there were so many opportunities for women in the fledgling
hip hop industry.

Speaker 15 (01:14:40):
Again, it was so small back then. If I had
gone to say, oh, you.

Speaker 16 (01:14:47):
Know, Columbia Records or Mercury or PolyGram or whatever Warner Brothers,
you know, and said, hey, you know, I'm looking for
a job, I would have been lucky to get you know,
be the coffee run or for some.

Speaker 15 (01:15:00):
Guy doing mid Atlantic radio promotion. Okay, so in hip
hop because it.

Speaker 16 (01:15:06):
Was just a small little industry and no one was
really checking. You know, like a lot of women were
able to sort of get ahead in this business because
there wasn't like a precedent.

Speaker 15 (01:15:16):
It wasn't an old boys network, you.

Speaker 16 (01:15:19):
Know, so it was still being it was still being
the story was being written, and you know, there was
a lot of opportunities. Although I will say when I
went to the first Jack the Rapper Convention, uh, a
lot of people thought I was hired help for another reason. So,
but you know the Rapper Convention, that's another documentary somebody

(01:15:41):
should too.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Oh boy, tales from the Rap Convention.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
So okay, when when okay, so eighty six, when Club
Neuveau starts hitting you know, lean on me and jealousy
and all that. So it was highly it was on
a capable like by that point, you guys are just
you know, a force. Was there ever a temptation to

(01:16:08):
say leave Tommy Boy and maybe and I don't want
to discredit hip hop's you know, force or whatnot, but
in the mind state of eighty seven, did you ever
have the temptation or did someone from RCA or Warner
Brothers or quote a legit major.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Label try to poach you away and say, come work
for us.

Speaker 16 (01:16:30):
Yeah, there was a label A and M actually and
A M was a real class operation, you know it was.

Speaker 15 (01:16:39):
I mean, there was like, uh and they even bought
me a plane ticket and put me in a hotel.
It was like, oh my god, you know, this is
pretty great. But I it didn't didn't happen. I really
sort of sense that I was better.

Speaker 16 (01:16:55):
Where it was, and it turned out to be true,
you know, because it was towards you know, it was
made president. I guess eighty five eighty six, I can't
remember exactly, but you know, it was towards the end,
you know, towards the late eighties where I really oversaw
A and R and the creative direction for the label.

Speaker 15 (01:17:15):
I was already doing quite a bit already in both
of those areas.

Speaker 16 (01:17:19):
And also, you know, in the early days, whether it
was collecting money from distributors, or putting in pressers with
the pressing plant, or getting the label copy typed up,
or sitting with Bambada while he wrote out of special things,
or creating a press list and writing press releases, talking to.

Speaker 15 (01:17:39):
You name it. It was like you got to do
a lot of different things. But it was, you know,
in the late eighties where I sort of really I
think that was a really golden erape for Tommy Boy
in the late eighties and the early nineties.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
In nineteen eighty eight, you know, for me, at least
in my life, one of the greatest pairaradigm shifts that
really affected I mean, eighty eight was such a banner year.
But you sign a group that literally changes the course
of my life. And we've had various people involved with

(01:18:14):
Daylas Soul projects, so we you know, you don't have
to go through the every day, but what I do
want to know is who was responsible for the genius
marketing of day Las Soul because from the press photos
to the fonts to the stickers. You know, for only
time on life I ever got sent to the principal's

(01:18:35):
office was because I put day Lost Soul stickers all
over my high school. Like, so, who was responsible? Like
what was the brainchild operation of we can make these
guys bigger than hip hop?

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
And I read that hip hop for hippies? Wasn't that
your ship? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I was.

Speaker 15 (01:18:57):
Very involved in all of that, but it was also.

Speaker 16 (01:19:01):
There's a lot of people at Tommy Boy that I
would credit for being a huge part of this campaign.
I think that it was a very critical decision to
have the Gray organization do the all the you know,
all of the daisy or the imagery for the for

(01:19:22):
the album cover. That was so that was I would
say such a radical move at that point because they
basically sort of threw down a gauntlet, uh to what
the prevailing visual aesthetic was of hip hop. And I
think it was the type of thing that a lot

(01:19:43):
of people were like, what is this but you know,
but but but the thing is before the album, before
the album, and you saw all those visuals. You know,
Plug Tune In was a radical record and and and
I still have I still have the demo tape and
I still have the write up that I did after

(01:20:05):
my meeting with Daddy O. And I want to make
sure to credit Daddyo because it was Daddy O from
Stetsasnic who called me and said, Hey, I've got these
groups I'm shopping.

Speaker 15 (01:20:16):
Can we set up a meeting. I'm like yeah, da
da da, And he sat on the phone. There were
three groups.

Speaker 16 (01:20:21):
Two of them were like Sore, these more mainstream like
Rene and angela type of groups or something, and he mentioned, uh,
Dela Saul.

Speaker 15 (01:20:30):
He said, oh, and there's this group that Paul's working
with called De La Soult.

Speaker 16 (01:20:34):
And I do remember thinking that's a really intriguing name.
You know what is that it didn't sound like a
hip hop group. And so I met with him, and
that's in that demo tape of plug Tuning and.

Speaker 15 (01:20:48):
Freedom, Freedom of Speak I think was the freedom.

Speaker 16 (01:20:53):
Yeah, it was the two tracks on the on the
one cassette, and it was like you immediately knew that
it was either gonna be big or nothing. And that's
where I think Tommy Boys legacy largely lies with signings
that were sort of in that category you're gonna love
it or you're not gonna hate it, but it wasn't
in the middle, and Dala Soul I think personifies that.

(01:21:19):
And you know, the the demo of plug Tuning sounds
pretty much. I'm pretty sure I don't think that it
was even even mixed, you know. I think it was
an eight track that Paul did and I don't think
it even went beyond that.

Speaker 15 (01:21:32):
By the time it was mastered. I think it was
still like this eight trick demo sounding thing.

Speaker 16 (01:21:36):
And we had this We did this ad campaign where
we got all these different people to say, you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Know, you know how it is, you know, like when
you know Latifa's mom, she was part of it.

Speaker 15 (01:21:48):
Latifa's mom, the lake Rita Owens we did.

Speaker 16 (01:21:51):
We did a campaign that I came in for Dala Soul,
I came in for Patty LaBelle, I came out with
Dala Saul. We had this with like some goofy, you know,
sort of straight looking white guy like you know, I
came in for.

Speaker 15 (01:22:06):
I forget it wasn't steely Dan.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
We hung that up in Sam Goodies. I worked at
Sam goodies at the time.

Speaker 16 (01:22:11):
Oh man, well then you know, so this is that
imaging campaign I think was fantastic. We had a great
full page ad and billboard. I said DLA gold when
it went gold. But you know, I think a lot
of it sprung from the group itself, because you know,

(01:22:32):
I still have and I shared this with pass actually
just last week.

Speaker 15 (01:22:38):
He sat down in the office and with this he has.

Speaker 16 (01:22:42):
A very distinctive style of cursive and he was writing
down the history of Dala Soul on this notebook paper set,
describing who each group member was. And he was writing
it in day La speak. And that was another thing too,
because like, nobody knew what the fuck they were talking about.

Speaker 15 (01:23:03):
They had their own language, like what are they tell?

Speaker 8 (01:23:07):
What the what do you mean?

Speaker 15 (01:23:08):
Plug tune?

Speaker 6 (01:23:08):
And what's that you know?

Speaker 15 (01:23:10):
And what is true? Guy the dove?

Speaker 8 (01:23:12):
You know?

Speaker 15 (01:23:12):
What is all this stuff?

Speaker 16 (01:23:14):
But they but they had a different look, They had
a different sensibility. So there was a lot there to
already work with and to sort of get inspired to
do interesting and creative marketing and promotion. You really can't
do something unless the something that the project and the
recordings and the artists that you're working with are interesting in.

Speaker 15 (01:23:37):
And of themselves.

Speaker 16 (01:23:38):
You can blow it up and magnify it. But if
they're not, if it's not inherently interesting and great, you
can't really do anything.

Speaker 15 (01:23:45):
So so they really they were like, wow, this group
pretty interesting. There a lot of people played role.

Speaker 16 (01:23:53):
I don't know if you know Rod Houston because he's
also from from Philadelphia.

Speaker 15 (01:23:56):
He's now one of the biggest voice.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Side He's a voice aided guy.

Speaker 6 (01:24:00):
He's huge.

Speaker 15 (01:24:01):
He's huge.

Speaker 16 (01:24:02):
And Rod I still have the copy that he wrote
up because we did this contest to name the sample and.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
Yeah, yeah, did you did you enter?

Speaker 6 (01:24:14):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
I didn't know the LIBERACEI or any Yeah I didn't
know that.

Speaker 16 (01:24:19):
Yeah we got I still have a lot of the
entries from the contest that I kept. A lot of
people thought it was Bobby Bloom And the only person
who got the who the only person who got it
right was Joel Weber, as I mentioned to him earlier
with the Partners in the New Music Seminar. And he's
the guy who put out He was an A and

(01:24:40):
R guy at Fourth and Broadway in Island. He put
out the Dominatrix Sleeps Tonight and he was the only
one who identified the invitations right, It's written on the
wall is the sample right record. So they So there
was a lot of really great things that sort of
sprung from the fact that the group themselves were so
different and so interesting. And I think that that whole

(01:25:03):
Daisy age imagery, you know, was certainly a blessing and
a curse for the group, because then they didn't really
like being named the hippies of hip.

Speaker 15 (01:25:12):
Hop, and you know, pushed back against it, you know.

Speaker 16 (01:25:15):
But that was that album Three Feet High in Rising,
you know, And that was actually the first project I
assigned to Dante. I loved that, Dante, make sure you
get this, get the clearances for so and so and
so and so. But it was the first project that
he worked on, which was fantastic. He did an amazing job.

Speaker 15 (01:25:36):
And Paul, of course, you know, yeah, thank you for this.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
Listen back for Women's History Month. Ket's new episodes a
Quest Love Supreme coming soon.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
Thank you for listening to Quest Love Supreme. Posted by
I'm here Quest Love Thompson. Are you saying clear? Sugar?
Steve mandel An unpaid Bill Sherman. The executive producers are Amir,
Quest Love Thomas, Sean Cheek and Brian Calvin. Produced by Britney,
Benjamin Cousin, Jake Payne, Eliah Saint Clair, edited by Alex Conroy.

(01:26:16):
Produced by iHeart by Noel Brown and quest Love Supreme
is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from
iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.

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