QLS Classic: Al B. Sure (Part 1)

In part one of two, the original rapper turned R&B singer, Al B. Sure!, talks about his time growing up in "money earnin'" Mount Vernon, coming up with music heavy-hitters in the 90's, his relationship with the late Kim Porter and why music is "his wife."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to q l S Classic Episode
one to three with I'll Be Sure. From February two
thousand nineteen, one of the proprietors of the New Jack
Swing movement. He came to break bread with us to

(00:22):
share stories of his journey as an up start from
Mount Vernon to damn Near getting arrested for simply causing
riots wherever he stood. You'll imagine that cops trying to
jail you for making all the ladies swim. Well, all
that and more on the next I'll Be Sure QLs
Classic Part one. Let's go Suprema rogue called Sma Primo

(00:55):
rogue called sam rogue called sub prima primo roll call,
Turn up the Fader, Yeah night now, not later. Yeah,
of course love is chilling. Yeah with the Sony Innovader
some primo roll. I'm gonna do it, so Frema roll call.

(01:19):
My name is Fante. Yeah, everybody don't laugh, because I
came to watch you take a bad Roma roll on.
My name is Sugar. Yeah. The record shows, Yeah, I

(01:39):
took the blows. Yeah, and did it my fremo road
he cut some frima prima rolltiller is here. Yeah for
another que last show. Yeah, I don't want your girl
turned out? Better tell he hit the road Freema some subpremo,

(02:02):
role sub frema some sub prema roll call. It's like
yeah and worry no more. Yeah, Oh my fucking god.
Ye call that was actually in a room Frema roll call,
so prema, so Frema roll call West Love. Yeah his name, yeah,

(02:28):
Crazy Drum is his game shows sign up, road call
so Prema son Supremo roll call, so Prema something Suprema
roll call, so Frema sign something yo. Man Like if

(02:52):
I believed in picking up phones and answer machines, that
would be my ow. And the show is over. Lazy joke.
Thank you for calling Quest Love. No one's in right now,
so please leave a message after the tune and he'll
get back to you when he feels like Yeah, man,

(03:12):
I got deep Boys out. News, Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome
to another road trip edition of Questlove Supreme. We are
still in California here for the rest of the year. Yes,
he'll be here. We're spending life out here where we
at Steve East West Studios formerly Western Recorders. That's what

(03:37):
this building was, home of Frank Sinatra and pet Sounds.
We're looking at the infamous uh Frank Sinatra podium, podium,
this whole room is. That's why I was singing my
way but I get whatever. No, that's that's why you know.
I wanted you to explain what the deal is. Ladies
and gentlemen. Uh, I don't even have a proper introduction,

(04:01):
but I will say that we're here chilling man with God.
I've been waiting on this. Yes, the original Rappert single.
Yes he is. I think he's there is like you know,
fuck your your your Drake dreams. We had the originator
well themselves lord of the light Skins and what I've

(04:27):
been seeing lately as hashtag the light Skin general money
earning money, murdered money earning, Mount Vernon. Ladies and gentlemen,
please welcome to quest up Sapre. I'll be sure, yes,
Thank you so much for corlor brother, Thank you man,

(04:47):
thank you for the dream culture for real. Much appreciated,
much appreciated. Man. I so what do we start come doing? Man?
Listen when I we're getting the deep cause later all right,
So let's just let's start. As I called Lee to
says at the beginning, I'll be where were you born?

(05:07):
I was actually born in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I'm supposed to
rock a socks had, but I represent New York so hard,
only because my dad was in the Coast Guard. Mother
and father we moved away to New York. So every
time I see Bobby your new kids or so, I
get all the ship in the world. You Yeah, I

(05:28):
represent the Met's, Yankees Nets, you know, Islanders, Rangers, Victory,
you know Liberty. Excuse me, said Victory and yeah. So
um so I represent New York all day early day.
So Mount Vernon, that was where you kind of raised
and came up. Absolutely, yeah, we call it four square miles. Um.

(05:49):
Of course we have a few heads that you might
be familiar with. A gentleman by the name of Dick Clark.
I was from Mount Vernon. Um. Eb White Chart of
Charlotte's Webb, which is one of my favorite books of
all time. Um. In fact, my four year old grandson
can read the entire book. I'm loving it. Um. Are

(06:11):
you pregnant? Ye? I wonder how long he gonna hold it?
All the times they have like this doofy Jim Hinton.
That's boys of Mine. I can't do that. Wait, let

(06:33):
me tell you something. First of all, I'm probably the
biggest Quest fan on planet Earth, to the point where
when you come to Vegas, I want you to come
to the residents. I have this cool low res photo.
I need a new one, but I got this cool photo.
I got the one photo with you. And we were
in Houston somewhere ship we did do a show together,
and I was so nervous because I was nervous, I

(06:55):
was like, wait, the show is that like the rout?
We did one of you know joins, the collaborative joins,
and I'll be sure was one of the forgot what
use this? And I think our very own Frank Millwalk
was also there. It was in Houston. It was like
one of the places with the with the long stage

(07:16):
and it's like one of them Hennessee shows, like a
bunch of acts on damn what two thousand four Okay,
we we could afford a backdrop back then, so maybe
it's like two thousand five two. It was wait before
Falance so and I know it was it was after
the Towers because I was marketing about the Towers phone,

(07:37):
so that it was after Towers, so it had to
be like I forgot we did that. Yeah, that was
that was that was exciting. But anyway, the point was
I have this really cool photo, but I had a
whack ass phone back then state and I've said there
was no high reds. There was no HD though, was
just d H. We we can up, we get updating definitely.

(08:02):
So in Okay, So when when did you move to
New York? So as as a kid, So I lived
partly in New Jersey as well. So in a place
called Leonie in New Jersey. Uh, that's the place where
you're the mayor complaining because everybody was going through the
streets to Leoni to get to the city and all
that craziness. I was going with the bridge and all that,

(08:22):
you know, with the mayor the governor. Yeah. So but yeah,
so for the most part, you know, I grew up
in the streets on the south side of Money earning
Mount Vernon. Um we call it four square miles, you know.
We have, like I said, a few heads you may
may may have heard of of course, the most prominent
for myself. Um. In fact, we even um uh obviously

(08:45):
you know Denzel Washington is from Mount Vernon as well.
Stephanie Mills. Um, you know, I know that Stephanie Mills.
In fact, I was so excited. I just did a
show with Stephanie at the Indiana Black Expo and we
were talking about how that's block wait wait wait wait.
In fact, we did one in Philly too, we did
in your city, just we just did at the Convention

(09:06):
Center and uh but yeah, So what people didn't know is,
you know how everybody was saying at all it is Michael.
You know, was he cake or what I'm like now,
Michael was gangster, Michael. Michael and Stephanie Mills used to date. Yeah,

(09:30):
this is recent. Was like Sam Smith. It said something
in the interview supposed that he wasn't really a fan
of Michael Jackson and Stephanie Mill. Oh boy, he inadvertently
not realized that he's here because of Michael Jackson, like
all of Okay, but anyway, but for the most part,
I had no idea as a youngster, when I was
riding my little BMX bicycle around that Michael Jackson was

(09:52):
about Vernon. I'd probably lost my mind. Um yeah, no,
it's it's a beautiful place, you know, uh, just my
best friend growing up in high school, Eddie f d
J d F you know, big shots Eddie. Um. I
used to carry the equipment. I was the engineer and
he was the DJ, was the best DJ, and uh
you know, we used to just used to do parties.

(10:14):
And that's kind of how the whole thing started. We
just started rocking together. And I saved my worked at
Gussini Shoes and I worked at this other place that
exactly like some place on on Fourth Avenue and save
my little bread and brought for a task cam toto
for tra tape to set tape. And that's how we
started all those demos and we would record stuff. And

(10:35):
this guy used to come over every day when we
were recording. He would get on the turntable some practice
and he was, you know, scratching and scratching. He started
getting really really good. His name is Pete Rock. It
was amazing and uh and then have played on the
football team with me and uh so we decided to
come kibby and then uh so I remember we were

(10:58):
so I picked up this is the fund story. I
don't think I've told this one. So we're in the
basement there's this thing for the youngsters called the Yellow Pages.
So I reached over to the Yellow Pages and we
had just finished working on some demos. We cut a
demo on have called It's a part of y'all. That's
the first. It was just nine. It was a rolling

(11:18):
nine o nine with a beat and him it's a
part of y'all. And he was just spitting, you know,
spen Mount Burning versus and uh, but it was. It
was so fly. So I picked up the phone. I call, look,
and we're Yellow Pages and I found a place called
death Cham. I said, okay, that sounds familiar. I call
a few times, you know, get there. Okay, great, al right, great,

(11:40):
okay great. So I kept being consistent. I called, so
the guy finally picks up, and you know, I'm having
this dialogue with him, and I said, you know, I
speak to Russell Simmons. Please. You know, I had to
have this new group called Heavy D and the Boys
for Money Earned Mount Burning. And dude was like, you know,
you mean the fat Boys. I was like, no, I
said Heavy D and the Boys for Money. He said,
you mean you'll whose nigga is up in the Bronx.

(12:01):
That's what he so you know, you know, yeah, y'all apolish,
y'all ain't really get it. Y'all a polished. I'm like, now,
trust me, I said, you got you don't understand, I said,
but this is something very different. I said, this is
something special. I think this young man's stars. You know.
So we we had gone through our whole process without
knowing that, you know, that we maybe would know what

(12:22):
we would know. So we just played it all. So
the key to his bring a dream into fruition. So
we just got on the phone and I stayed consistent
and I Kevin asked, and I'm said, listen, let me
talk to Russell Simmons. I needed I want to get
him in this music. Okay, we'll send us another cassette,
send us another cassette. I call him back. He answered
the phone, sir, um, I'd really like to talk to
Russell Simmons. Who is this. My name is Andre Herrella.

(12:45):
I want to talk to Russell Simmons. So that's that's
how the whole thing started. And then and yeah, and
then at that point Andre and Russell were, you know,
not necessarily partying ways, but creatively because Andre wanted to
kind of go into that commercial. You know, Russell obviously
had militant hip hop you know public you know, just
the Beastie Boys. He had that on the lock. That

(13:06):
was his system. And Andre kind of wanted to be
you know, he wanted to be Jack l and I
he wanted to be armed and uh, you know, and
at that point, um, you know, myself and Eddie was
you know, essentially the glue that kind of started that
whole thing with him. And he just was a brilliant,
brilliant visionary of putting the collective pieces together too to
kind of start this whole movement call Uptown. And what

(13:28):
we did was I called him baby Berry Gudian. He
would call me Baby Quincy Jones and and it was
such an amazing time, even though we didn't really understand
what it would turn into. It was more, um, we
would pattern ourselves to be more of a boutique version
of what Motown represented, so the artist would all work together,

(13:50):
you know, it would be a whole when we've got
our first offices in Brooklyn and it would be a
hallway and everybody would And then he put me on
the train. He told me to go go sit with
this guy named Teddy Riley and go hitting the projects.
Here this is a dress and a knocked on the door.
And I sat there for a year and just Teddy
taught me to program. It was a core D D
D one. He had to tape over it though, and

(14:11):
to all you know, the motto half a millisecond sample
and so he was recording, you know, he was programming
all that right. There was we do like ten songs
a day, um and he Teddy Riley actually just announced,
as I think of south By Southwest that Albie Shore
is officially the fourth member of Guy because that's me
singing one. Yeah. So we did so many demos together,

(14:34):
you know when we started cutting nine day and off
on young Girl, and then I would work on you
know if I'm not your lover, and you can call
me crazy, and it was just nonstopping. So under the
tutelage of this young cat who just would make the
drum machine break your neck, it was just so so amazing.
He's like quest love with fingers on a drum machine.
Like he's nice like that. It's like I've never seen someone,

(14:56):
you know, like obviously when we win quests, you know,
he's on his his his kid. It's just it's something
magical in terms of this the rhythm and just it's
it's magical because he's got probably got every nation under
a group for lack of better terms. You know, what
were your folcus doing at the time? Were they supportive
of your your music? Like, what did your what did
your folks do? Well? My dad, uh, he's at Cornell
had a nuclear medicine, so he's doing that. My mother

(15:18):
was managing a dental office, you know, preachers selling insurance.
They were divorced when I was four. Um, so you
know it was me and Mom Dukes, you know, making
it happen. She kept her foot way way in my
esophagus to make sure, you know, because I wanted to
run the streets. I want you to know I thought
I was. I thought I was gonna be a hustler,
like because that's when I saw the oho that asked

(15:38):
my car, you know, on the corner. I wanted that.
But I was like fourteen, so so you know, I would,
you know, just get involved with the situations. And if
I came home with a brand new pair of pumas
or some of data's, where'd you get them? Oh no, no, no,
snatch snatched the curly afro pulled me out the door,
and I was so grateful that she snatched that snatched

(16:00):
me up every time like something would go left, because
then I had this respectful fear of a boy. Let me,
let me just let me keep a semi in the
lane where I'm supposed to be and make sure at
least do my homework and do what I gotta do.
And you know, it's taught me somewhat of responsibility for
the most part. But just you you have brothers and
have three sisters, but you know, after marriage and sup,
but it was just me and mom and uh yeah yeah,

(16:24):
so my with my my sister Amber was the younger
snap but with just to marriage. So but yes, it's
it was amazing just in terms of she just gave
me a schedule. I would come home only refrigerator. It
would be a loosely a piece of paper, three fifteen,
take off your school close, three starts you man, so
every day and uh, it was just a schedule. It

(16:45):
was like you know, sergeant Mom. And she's a little
five for two things. She swings a heart part. I
remember one time she tried to swing on me one
day because I was with this kid named Charlie Peppertone
and he had given me some marijuana or something or
some sort of a regular. I thought it was my mother,
and I got home and mother found it in my

(17:06):
pocket and I and I went, this is the crazy part.
I come walking down the hill from school when I
see this is the all the time, you know, when
you see your father's car sitting in the afternoon. And
I was like, and he had hold up, okay, quest
he had the dots and would folks like the long
with the wood green man and you know that you

(17:26):
can't mistake that one. So I'm walking in and I'm like,
what's going on here? And he was like sit down,
and that's all my father had to say. And I'm like, listen,
uh sir, you know, and well, what's that? Oh it's
not mine? Okay, great? Whose is it? And so you know,
I had they had they confessed, but I didn't know
what it was because I didn't know anything about that

(17:48):
at that point. I was just but apparently the cast father,
you know he was, you know, back in the day.
And then that's when I started one. I wanted to
be a hustler. That's because you got nice things and
not a lot of work until I had to switch
it up and realized I enjoy putting in the work.
So starting off with you rapping first, like when you

(18:08):
went d F for cutting stuff, Like what what was
your role? Okay? So initially, um, I wanted to be
a rapper, and so my favorite rapper was Slick Rick.
So to me, he's like the greatest storyteller of all time.
You know, everybody has their favorite j and naas and
you know, rock him and I'm from the rock Him
error so um and black thought and like that's that's

(18:30):
my like, um my man, I'll be sure in effect
mode for your pleasure. For your pleasure, you know, that's
my junk right there. Yeah. So yeah, just that was
the way it started. And in fact, you know when
we started cutting the demos for have the initial demos,

(18:52):
it was, uh, you know, I wanted to rap on
the song, but they're like, no, don't rap, just sing
and sing sing some some the background. So I became
like the I wasn't a part of the group per se,
but I was the background singer. Um and I was
Eddie's best friend. But what Eddie did for me, which
is I love him to this day, no matter what
was going on. As they were getting their momentum, Eddie

(19:13):
would keep my little cassette tape with him and every
time he would be around Russell or Andre or anyone
like that nature, he would pop my cassette over. So
Andre just told the story. I think it was either
on her mind sung or he told it on inside
the label where he said, you know, one day having
Eddie uh miss studio time or something that easy. You know,
I said, hey, can I use it? And then uh,

(19:35):
Kylin that when they laid down night and day and
he says, oh, this kid got talent. I said, okay,
and then that's where it all started. It was the
first song, No, the first song I actually recorded was
this Love Is and that's the original version that was
on the four track cas set Roe Shamir just bounced
the cassette tape to the student and then we try

(19:56):
to keep most original element because you know, you get
demo whitis. He's like you in the hood, riding around
and in the K car joint on Third Street, and uh,
and it sounds and you get used to that. I studio.
It's like if it work, it works, that's what it is.
So I'm thinking you somethinking all the health stuff is
that you singing on? Don't you know? Don't you know?

(20:19):
Don't you know? Somebody for me money? Under mound burning?
How old were you around this time? I was younger.
I had to be seventeen or eighteen at least. Yeah,
And like what you're singing? Was it something like that?
I wasn't. I wasn't. No, I wasn't a singer. My
father played piano and my mother's manage a dental office.

(20:41):
But that was you know, I wasn't really a singer
or anything. But I was a stylist what you call
a stylist, meaning I understood structured because I studied, you know,
song structure and things that that nature to know that
I was going to be doing that, but I went
to send it for me. The oars over then like
you to study engineering. So Eddie and Eddie and I
right after high school wanted to. We wanted to. I
really want to be an engineer because I was into

(21:01):
frequency and sound. I'm a little bit of a straight
I'm a corn ball in terms of I'm into you know,
like now which I love everything related to analytics and
and and just understand a digital footprint of where you
are as an artists and then just trends and things
of that nature. So, um, that's what I truly enjoyed
as well. That's what's that when Um, when y'all did
the first well so you did Night and Day. You

(21:22):
and Kyle first off, talk about Kyle Man because he
nobody knows. When you heard, you knew it's some fires.
It's about to get real all the way down like
it when you heard that NI is about to get real.
It was funny, like go West, break it down, you know, Kyle, Kyle.

(21:46):
In fact, we just started, We just embarked and started
on the new album, which which which will be called.
I figured I was trying to thinking all these slick
names and I was like, nah, you know what, let
me just driving my lane. It's in effect mode two,
in effect mode two point zero one eight, That's all

(22:08):
it is. Because I'm just driving to my lane. I'm
not trying to be anybody else, dude, I'm just trying
to continue with my signature. Well, I just like shut
them down. The Cash album come out, you probably get
them calls like the pictures, Well guess so, no, they
can remix it all day long, you know, for for
the radio aspect of it. But I truly make music
from my soul. And you know, I don't want to

(22:30):
sound corny a cliche, but it's it's this is all
spiritual for me. This has never been about making it
records because I didn't know what it record was. I
didn't come from that. So everything for me was just
whatever I was feeling, whatever I was going through at
that moment, and interpretating that form of expression, whatever I
was going and having the vehicle of music to be
able to reach and travel the globe and and meet

(22:51):
leaders of nations. And it's really amazing what that vehicle
can do for you. Um because I didn't realize but
my mother, my mother told me all my life. Listen,
you're a citizen of the world. Once you become a
citizen in the world. And I didn't know to take
it seriously. I didn't know it's gonna be in Japan
and Germany and you know, all over the world and
making a joyful noise. I'm just I'm that's a blessing.

(23:11):
Anybody who thinks it's not a blessing, better ups is hiring.
So you and Kyle went from the time y'all made
Night and Day? How did you? How did it get
from there till you signing with Warner? Well, I have
I seen my question before that what was a Sony
Innovator and was it a real thing? Like I kept

(23:32):
even before I heard you, I kept hearing on like
Lee Bailey's radio Scope, So innovator, I'll be sure, Sony Innovator.
And then you know, I like read Billboard, Sony Innovator,
I'll be sure. And what the hell is the Sony?
What was the Sony Innovator? Okay, Sony Innovator was Sony
Corporation of America. We're looking for new signed and unsigned
artists who were innovative musically. Um. They had three judges.

(23:56):
I think it was you know, Tom Joyner, Deborah Crable
from every Just Showcases and uh and someone else. They
broke it down. Apparently they broke it down to a
field of fifty one cassette tapes. The final judges were
Herbie Hancock and Quincy Jones. And Quincy Jones chose Albie
Show's tape. On that particular tape, I think I had

(24:17):
with this love it so night and Day and like
awful young girl on or something but just the demo versions.
So this is even before the album came This is
before the album came out. And in fact, Benny mcdina's assistant,
Karen Jones, is one who submitted me for the for
the contest um and she's the one who put the
exclamation point on my name. She kept so yeah, so
then you know that particular campaign, uh you know, kind

(24:41):
of gave us to that signature in addition to co
signing by you know that dude who did that thriller thing.
You know, so imagine you know that was what a blessing.
And then you know, we started to rock together and
you know, came my big brother and and then I
learned so much from him. Imagine being one of his
his children. Um, when you're crawling around the living room

(25:02):
and it's deep Chopra and it's Oprah and so so
imagine those what those those young people would learn. Just
in terms of philosophies from around the globe, it's it's
truly truly amazing. Just so just when you're around Quincy,
just shut up. Yeah, we just let him talk. I
have hours and hours Wait wait did he ask you?

(25:27):
Did he ask you the famous question, what's your gumbo.
What's what's what? You have to ask him when he's
those toes? Man to you still got cute toes. I
showed him a picture of me when we to us
together when I was like six. People like, did you
have those toes? Then that's what I just asked. She
had the cutest little toes. I used to play with

(25:48):
the toes in the kitchen. We would sit her up
to sit on the table and Indiana, we should be
making some food and and literally you pull it to
who are you going? What are you doing? You know,
so you knew like when she was a kid, she
see like he had trying to make like I knew.
I knew you weren't have his thirteen like trying to

(26:10):
make me sound like I'm like because because you had
to be with nine or ten? You know what? Yes,
I was like, that is correct, I'll be sure. When
you was like I gotta feel like you know you
guys waiting for me outside because as like friends, Me
and him mets like my godmother's friend, you know what

(26:31):
I mean? Like it was he was an elder of sorts.
So with me and you, it was like let's go no,
but you keep throwing the word thirteen in my face,
like yeah, he was, Oh no, this is not sounding
good back to exactly, so sorry, this is so wrong, please,

(26:54):
oh my god. So he was there for like i
AM's first year, was it the first were here for
the first year. I was there when Diana made it
up sitting in the in the in the kitchen, know
a little breakfast nook that was in there with the
windows and stuff. When she came up with the whole
concept and the International met me in the house until
like nineteen years later you went to the house. I

(27:21):
don't know, didn't have enough, but she was an intern
at the International International. Danna allowed me like set up cheers, yes, okay,
so give us So Dana Williams, who is my godmother.
She founded a she's she's the mother of Black music. Mom.
She created that. She's a media coach. You see her
all the time. But she also created one of the

(27:42):
first music conferences called i AM, which was the International
Association of African American Music. And every year she would
bring people together and have had rapped Jack the Rapper,
Whitney Houston and the new edition she liked. Yeah, but
when you go to i AM, you know you're gonna
be there safe. Yeah, you don't know what's gonna happen.

(28:06):
What's crazy is I always tell our story through that
because I was like when I when I first went,
you were an intern and then you slowly kind of
rose up through I am like you did the showcase
and then you did the tribute to Jazzy Jeff, But
it was like, yeah, I still didn't get to see
what the inside of the house. But a very significant
part of who Dianna Williams is as well as um,

(28:27):
she is the amazing, amazing mom of uh Mr Kenny
Gamble's children as well. Um, and you know which is
Philadelphia International and kind of the blueprint of what we're
all doing, um, you know, in terms of just that soul,
true soul, just in your gut, in your soul music,
spiritual church. She is a subject of a lot of

(28:49):
those songs. Oh. Absolutely. The question I have about Uptown
Records is why, well, no, no, no, why because I'm
just noticing, at least in your case and also uh
Ultra mcnagg m c's case. Um, you guys weren't on

(29:11):
m C a proper, So how did you wind up
on Warner Brothers through Uptown. Great question quest great questions.
So I remember when they were doing the initial deal,
Andre was dealing with the thing. Either Mike Halle or
maybe was Ernie Singleton was there at the time, which
I usually lives in Vegas. Neared me as well too,

(29:32):
so um and uh okay, who was our guy over
so the Ernie Singleton? Um ah, Timmy Regisford. Um, yeah,
just you know that entire conglomerate of executives. Mike Halle,
I think they brought a group of remember the uptowns
kicking it so so so they were all the rappers

(29:54):
and they had all the rappers, so I wasn't necessarily
included in that. Um. And then I just to be
honest with you, which I think this is a good
thing that I just think they didn't want to sign me.
So at that point, so, um, you know, those nose
are pretty good. You know that it's a more more
of a motivator than anything else, you know, and they
didn't want And this is after hearing night and day.

(30:16):
I don't know, I don't know what they heard. I
kind of at that point, I was more like just
rocking with Teddy and you know, I was under the
tutelage of Teddy and just sitting there every day and
Teddy Studio learning you know, programming and song arrangement and
structure and and just you know, I was honing in
on those skills. Um, and Andre stuck me with him,
So whatever that transaction that was going on was just

(30:36):
more included in that uptown's kicking a package. Um. And
then he wound up taking me to l A and
he said, listen, let's go, let's go get this bread.
I have an idea. And he brought me to record
executive Benny Medina and who was senior VP and A

(30:57):
at Warner Brothers at that point. And um, that's where
we went, you know initially and then so first and
foremost they gave us a singles deal. So yes, I
was like, oh, like I had a time, Like I
had a real you know reason to go. Oh I
should have been I shouldn't have been happy, you know,

(31:17):
getting any deal. Um. But but but again you know
that step mount burning. You know, I should have told him,
but I was supposed to set you for the deal.
Just run all over me on the st question hard

(31:39):
to tell, right, Um? Yeah, so you know he brought
me over to to Benny's Off. And it's funny because
I finally watched my entire song. I always was always
afraid to watch it because for the first year, and
I'll get back to why I was saying it. For
the first year, Um, I did the voice offers for song. Yeah,

(32:00):
it so that so you're the one that always ends
wraps career then rap kid. So what happened was so
the first the first season, when they were just launching
the show, it was Phillis Hyman, the Clark's sisters, DeBarge,
and I believe Donnie Hathaway. So those are the first

(32:22):
four episodes, just as a test run to see how
it worked out. And then uh, and then they moved
some of the executives around the TV one and then
I got you know, somebody's brought in their own person
to do it. But um but it was it was
a great experience and I loved doing the voice over
thinking obviously had been doing radio for many years, and um,
so just it was a great opportunity. But the show

(32:44):
for me was like you're dead and jumped off a building,
or you heroin out or you know, you tweaked out
or something. So so I was asked to do it
a few times, and I was like, no, maybe not
a good idea. I'm not dead. I don't think y'all
know how I still live out in Vegas. So um
so you know. So then as time went on, it
turned into me it turned into more of a docuseries

(33:06):
type style of show. Um, you know, depicting the artist's
life and and then you know the ups and downs
and so and so forth. So it wasn't necessarily there's
you know, death part, because a lot of times casts
will get like we'll see a kind of resurgence in
their music, um, like a brother like the interest. Yeah,
and and then and then what it was great about
it too is you know, cats like to get their

(33:27):
little we can't bread up a little something. I'm on TV.
You know, I got a new series. It's great, it's
the same record whatever. But um yeah, So so I
enjoyed it as well. And then at that point I had,
you know, I tasted a little bit in terms of
like production. So I've I've always wanted to direct and
and and to us I had an opportunity to, Um,

(33:48):
I'm executive producer on the Jamie Fox HBO special. I
might need security, so I started doing those things like that,
and I said, listen, this is this is something and
again a quincy thing is looked. I'll be uh you know,
there's a point in your life when there's anything available
to do, you just do it, you know, and just
make it. You know. So he was just always honing
in on that don't be one dimensional um aspect, and

(34:10):
uh I just wanted to Uh, I wanted to experience that.
But I really really like that. And then we started
working on like I think I was working on Clint
Eastwood was working on a new network called the Back
nine network was a competition to the Golf Channel, and
uh so I was in that aspect of it. You know,
I'm always trying to do it. I love Anteller revenue streams.
So so it's not about you know, it's not a

(34:31):
flatwear but and you understanding, very specifically as an artist
with a very strong brand um pray significantly you there's
a market out there too, you know that is truly
interested in what your brand has to offer, whether it's

(34:53):
toothpaste or whether it's you know, a drum pad or
you know anything. You know, yeah, but anything, yes, all
flat Yeah, Now that's just that's the George Foreman. I think,
to think about it, you think about it. There's a
generation who has no idea he can punch your lights out.
All they know is fish, you know. And how cute

(35:18):
is he? Look at this? Look at that man with
the bull head. He cute? He could say, he's a
lovely You don't know. George was a beast. George a
movie yourself, A gets you. He does he does inventors,
inventors dot com or whatever? That absolutely and and and
what's what's significant? And this is something I would tell
any of these new artists very specifically, what invent help?

(35:40):
And then help you? Um calling Ben help? That's my
friends of my friends. Um. And what very specifically what
I would suggest to some of the newer artists out
there who obviously the record industry is defunct in terms
of the way it used to be so um, obviously
it's mostly social media driven. Like if there's a major

(36:02):
role in the Spielberg has a major role, obviously, Um,
you know, if Justin Bieber and Tom Cruise, Justin Bieber
just might get the role because he's gonna guarantee them
far and he's gonna guarantee them number one at the
box office. Now maybe Tom Cruise, maybe you know, a
more accomplished and a better actor, But right now it's
about the shareholders. So so right now, if you're a

(36:23):
new artist and you're coming in with a following, and
you have a significant social media following, and you've generated
your your your personal grind is generated millions of followers. Um,
you can for the most part write your own ticket
and you basically they just want you to do all
the work for them. There you go, there you go,
and and but the key to it is if you
do come with that as as part of your arsenal

(36:45):
or your portfolio, make sure that you do what's called
Arnold Palmer business. And with the way Arnold Palmer does
business is the same significance of like how Shaquille does
and so on and so forth. Instead of endorsing a brand, Yeah,
let me get this bread here, give me you know
that's great, give me ten million, so and so forth. No, No,
that's cool, give me that ten stack. But also I

(37:05):
need an equity state in addition to I need to
be a part of the excess strategy of this company.
So when it goes public, we're in the money. Well,
there you go. And it's funny. I that was my
first meeting with the rock in Chicago with Diagio Brand Liquors,
and I remember that when they offered me that deal,

(37:26):
I guess somebody better got it. I'm gonna come on,
I'm proud because come on, straight up money. And I
am so proud of people. Don't realize. Let's set the
record straight right now. I am so proud of dude
in terms of first of all, being from you know,
the streets of Mount Vernon and and and it's come

(37:47):
up and I used this. It's funny cause I used
to always. That's why I told kim Us to tell Kimberly.
I said, well, Kimberlina, that's my baby. High Kim, I
missed you kill you know, so no, no, no, no,
first you know that was my that was my my sweetheart.
That was moved it from Columbus, Georgia, and I put
in a nice apartment with my sister up in the

(38:08):
river day. Yes. Actually I just started writing the book
to book. Yeah, it's called From Mount Vernon to the
Moon and back. So I'm looking for a publisher eventually,
and and my life story as well, because you know,
Bobby's just coming out. This Bobby Brown's coming Jesus Christ.
We'll talk about it too, because it's so much, it's

(38:29):
so much more than just you know, the guy who
made this is funny because curly lights can do made
night and day. It's it's only only listen. I have
to say that my introduction to you was sort of
semi backwards because I'm a cousin that you might have
went out with her exactly, but I was told she

(38:59):
told me that you were regularly, regularly get accosted by police,
like threatened for just walking down the block. Yeah, like
just to walk down the block would cause such a commotion.
They were like, we will arrest you if you continue
to walk in this morning, I got arrested Virginia on

(39:22):
Virginia Beach. Wait a minute, you Oh, I got it,
got it? What quest I got it? You know what
happened was so I didn't even understand the magnitude of
what was transpiring at this point. So we would we
so back and remember I just got a dollar over

(39:42):
lunch money, and you know I had to go get
that new maximum with the rims on it right to
me and my boys. We got into Maximum we drove
down because because the big thing was spring break, either
Howard home Coming or whatever, not even that we were
really old enough at that point, but we just want
to be in the mix. So that's where the girls are.
So we would I'm sorry, well this is this point

(40:03):
and then right here because we would go down and
it would just you know, just be a lot of
you know, really nice looking at and some joints. Right
so now so now afterwards, so I guess my boys
wanted to play a joke because I didn't realize what
I didn't realize what happened. Let's let's rewind slightly. Let's
go to Madison Square Garden. There was a tournament going
on and I believe it was like either McDonald's or

(40:24):
something going on. And my cousin Akbar said, hey, let's
go to this thing that you know, the radio station
there is promote this thing. So I don't know how
we got tickets, but he got tickets and we went
there and it was either halftime and I think Shaquille
O'Neill was playing in the year I think it was
on l s U at that point or something like that.
Maybe it was way back then, so I remember going
up to go get um some beverage and the hot

(40:47):
dog or something, and I had going up. Now, I
didn't realize that Ralph McDaniel video Music Box had been
playing my video for like a week or two weeks.
So mine you. I go up, I go get my
hot dog. I turned around and I didn't know this
is half time, I mean halftime, you know, like so

(41:09):
it's full of like schoolgirls and people. I turned around
and they started screaming, that's that boy. Oh that's that's
all I heard. That's and then they all jumped on
top of me. He's dreams. I don't even think. I
don't even it's funny because I don't even think I
could afford those yet, Like I didn't get a budget

(41:30):
or nothing that I had. I may have had some
pro kids with the strife on the South, but but
but it was it was such a scary situation for
me because what happened was I got snatched up by
security saying I started a fight. So everywhere I would
go to a mall, I would go to different places
and the security coup. Like so let's passed forward to

(41:52):
Virginia Beach. We're on Virginia Beach, That's how I met Mookie,
who used to body gulf for LLL and run DMC
because he was there with a bunch of New York
giants and so on and so forth. So we get there,
we park and we decide, you know, we're gonna walk
on the beach. That was such a mistake. So all

(42:12):
I know is that it started, and the running started
and the screaming and saw something. I'm trying to figure
out what's like dead, I'm dead ass what is going on?
And it was me the police on social media to
let you know that. Yeah, no, I had no idea.
So so the police came. And then what happens. I
got trapped in either eye hopped or whatever was there

(42:33):
at that point, whatever was on that part of the beach.
I got trapped in the store and they were shaking
the windows and breaking the window and trying to get
to me. Um, and then I remember it was helicopters.
We were you down there. But I've heard this story
and I thought this has to be an exaggeration. The
fact that you're actually verifying it, I can't believe. Like,
so I went thirty years not believing the story. So um.

(42:55):
So then they came and they put me in. They
tried to get there. It was a whole. It was
like a riot. And they finally got to me and
they put me in the car and they took me
to jail because I said I incited a riot and
I'm like, sir, I don't know what. I don't know
what a riot is, Sir, I'm not of that nature.
Thank you very much. On for Mount Vernon comprehend that

(43:16):
you were celebrity, and I guess it's weird to say that,
like guys, I'm sort of a big deal or like yeah,
but because I have right but different. But the whole
of a BT was everywhere, so you know, video soul
and BT and the music box and what I say, um,
I don't even remember, to be honest with you, yeah

(43:41):
sometimes no but but no. But but the point was
that they were actually right and doing what they were
doing because they didn't know. All they know is that
whatever I did started like literally they broke all the
windows in the gas station. Women, this is this is
some dudes too, and what was it was crazy. So

(44:01):
once we started seeing that happen, Um, so I remember,
I think it's funny. Andrea tells the story I'm gonna
get I'll get you the clip. Andrea tells the story.
And because I went to the office, to the uptown office,
and I said, and that's when we got an office
on fifty seven Street. And I said, Trey, come with me.
He says what I said, just come with me. Just
come walk down the street with me. I want to

(44:21):
show you something. He's like, okay, So we we go
and go outside. We're walking. It turns into a slow job.
It turns in people screaming from buses from this, and
like I'm trying to figuet like and I look at
it like this, and as you know, from a child,
I don't have a bean bone in my body. So
I'm just trying to figure out how do we market this.

(44:48):
I didn't know back then, but that's what my thought process,
because even even when I would go to Warner Brothers,
I remember trying to make sure I educated some of
the staff there as it related to I would see
a commercial and I would see who that who? I
want some candy? Give me some of that. Can't you
know it's funny that you had some sweets to me
because I because because okay, no, don't play with me.

(45:10):
I got some alma eminem. I don't play him. You
know what, No, I can't happen, you know, because I
just lost eighty pounds. And the way I did it
was I cut out sugar, rice, bread, pasta, and I
don't drink soda anymore. So and then and then you
know all the other stuff I did because because I

(45:30):
you know, I guess I could. We're getting it right here.
I'm giving it the quest right now because I never
talked about this, because you know, that's why, that's why
you don't see me all over reality. She was playing
myself except for one you know. But but what I
did was I really just decided just to take this seriously.
I was turning fifty and all the stuff I was
supposed to do as a black man in terms of

(45:52):
you know, colonoscopy, all this stuff. You know, there's a
rule book. Okay, you're black man, so you need to
do this, this, this, and let them put the camera here.
I'm like, at least buy me some flyers there. So
it's a big pain in the butt. So but but
but you have exactly right, um, but you have to,
you know, something you're supposed to do. And so I
waited until I was turning fifty to do it. So
I took off like six months and then they went

(46:15):
in with the cameras calling out to the E U K,
element O, P whatever, just whatever, what's just everything? So
we went in look check on X y Z and
then you know whatever, we'll just say whatever they saw.
I said, listen, whatever I don't need after fifty, just
take it out, just leave my heart and we're good.

(46:36):
So um, so I went through that process and you know,
and went in and said, listen, I need to I
need my health. I'm dealing with diabetes type two. My
grandson the most important. I don't even get old the
motion right now because my grandson is everything. That's my
little too right there. So um, he came over to
me and said, pop ups, because you can't call me
grandfather like A's pop ups. And he says, you know, popps,

(47:01):
uh that's you. You like Santa Claus saying you can't
bring me gifts and everything. Right. So when he said
that to me and I looked at him, I was
like from the mouth of Babes and I was like wow,
And I said and for me, because it's not because
what's crazy? And I've never said this before, but the
weight Gaine and all the other stuff was me running

(47:22):
from that sexy ship because I wasn't happy with that
because I'm straight in New York street cat from Mount Vernon.
Don't let them, don't let the love songs full you.
I'm still that straight from Mount Vernon, like and and
you know, I'm zall brown like you know, just that's
what I grew up. So all that putting me in
that category and in that lane I was. I've always been.

(47:43):
You've always been uncomfortable being a celebrity, like everywhere I go,
it's like, and I'm truly you hated that at the time.
After a while they lost his luster and people just
know I was just I was just scared, right, I
was scared to go anywhere and do anything that was
technically enjoyed it. It sounds like they're the closest thing.
Is funny, because Drey would say it all the time.

(48:04):
He said, this is the closest thing to Michael Jackson
he's ever seen. He said, he said, as much as
we've been everything like I had Elvis and then I
guess you know that's quoting him on the on one
song and it was, like I said, but this gave
me an opportunity to have my vehicle of expression, which
is my music reached the masses and the planet and

(48:25):
so and so forth, and and and I had my
little niche that. Mind you, I'm not Michael Jackson, I'm
not Tom Cruise. You know, most cats gas themselves and
they think they're too big. And it's like, no, I
know where Albi Shure is, and I know I gotta
I know my sweet spot in terms of my core audience,
and and I and I focus on them. I don't
try to go to outside of it. But what I
do is I love all types of music. So that's
why I enjoy working with David Bowie, Robert Palmer, Rod Stewart,

(48:47):
Al Green. You know, I'm saying so so because I
saw that's what I listened to on AM radio growing
up as a kid in my back of my father's
Color Supreme he would have on CBS radio. So I'm listening.
So I'm listening to the Eagles, I'm listening to Journey,
I'm listening to uh Chicago. You know, I'm listening to

(49:07):
all you know, an eclectic version of what music is.
So there was no color to it for me. So
that's why I love, like one of my favorite artists
on the planet, this thing what I love. Can I
ask a question since you mentioned that, sir, do you
remember the first record you ever purchased, your very first record?
It had to be a Jackson five record. It had

(49:29):
to be UM or Stevie Wonder record. Maybe maybe it was.
It could have been well, you know what, wait a minute,
it might have been a Pastel the Bell record. And
let me tell you why. Because the record player whatever
my mother was playing on the record players or something.
So I would do rehearsals in the in the living
room and I would but see, I remember, I got
a whoop him because I used to try to take
everything apart. I thought was an engineers. I would take

(49:51):
the record play apart. It would take the TV apart.
My mother would care, but mother would come in and
the TV be apart. Don't take the cutless supreme apart
man man. So eventually, so eventually you had to realize
that you needed an entourage just to protect you and

(50:13):
protect you from the public, because I mean, I can
imagine and what you mentioned about like just not wanting
to be known for just like the pretty boy at
the moment that stuff, and that you're a real artist.
And that's thing I know that that whereas that that
grows old quick fast. Yeah exactly. I was about to say,

(50:34):
d has the same story. And you know, like looking
it always seems like the grass is greener on the
other side. Because I was just like, yo, man, like
at the snap of a finger, you could be Prince
I Kim all right, and the royal petis is clean.
But to hear you say it, you know, it's like, well,
you know, I'm human and I have the artistic expressions

(50:56):
and those things, and so it wasn't all right. I'm
like you, I take this seriously, like I consider this
a blessing. And there's no you know, there's like I said,
there's no I have. I don't have a veinbone in
my body outside of my love for the music. I mean,
that's my wife. The music is my wife, and anyone
in my life is the mistress. So it's always going
to be that way. And and and the reason I'm

(51:17):
related to this day, and this is something I mentioned frequently,
is the reason the digital footprint for this particular music,
whether it be New Jack Swing or R and b music,
and I try to be at the forefront. That's why
I do radio, and I create as many media platforms
I can to keep it out there and and make
it do what to do. But um, the reason is

(51:39):
so significant because we were at it's music is malnutrition
right now. And and I'm saying that from the standom.
Don't get me wrong, because I don't knock anyone's hustle
because I love what technology has allowed other forms of
their craft to be introduced to the world. So I
don't knock that. It's not something I'd be listening to

(51:59):
make love and so so both, you know. But the
reason this music is so prominent and what we do,
it's because there's a generation of women who were starving
to be told I love you again. Talk about it?
Oh sorry, you know and very significant, thank you, thank

(52:22):
you very much much. Uh, there's you know, there's a
generation of women who were starving to be told I
love you again. So they gravitate towards this music, whether
it's they don't even have to be me, whether Alby Shore,
Bobby Brown, Earthwin and fire, let's even go there. Let's
go the organic feeling. Um, there's an organic feeling. That's
that's a necessity, that's that's that's medicine that's needed. Like

(52:45):
do you realize what this world would be like with
no music? Wouldn't be here about and outside of outside
of just the the where it creates continuity as it
relates to my way out of the hood. And so

(53:07):
that's not it. It's so much more. I mean, obviously
for a generation that has access now you know it
can turn miracles for you, but you have to take
it seriously as something you know, you can't take it
for granted. It will take advantage of it. It's a woman,
the same thing I would tell my sons about a woman.
If you don't love her, leave her alone. Oh damn.

(53:33):
It was like several questions just came from that last statement,
but just ask one. Actually, I want to get to
the music because I think it should be noted that
with an effect mode literally with and I had to
look it up, um, with the exception of Naturally mind

(53:54):
and just to Taste of Love and literally I mean
it was borderline neck and neck with Thriller with every
song was and even if not officially a single, like
Philly Radio even played the not like you know, kill
me softly in this lovesode like album cut didn't relive me?

(54:14):
So how do you feel as though you've gotten your
just deserve? Just as far as like the acknowledgement that
this album with seven known sas the line between single,
single and filler, how important it is? And and how

(54:40):
do you feel about the tag for New Jack Swing?
It's you know, new Jack Swing pioneers sort of do
you shrug it off as do you feel a date
you or just under well? No, you know, I appreciate
it because new Jack Swing. First of all, let's let's
let's get um, let's give the just do where to do?

(55:02):
Teddy Riley Theodore is the inventor of New Jack Swing.
He took uh what he was influenced by. I mean,
people don't realize Teddy did Duddy first the show, you know,
like I mean obviously you guys would know it here.
But um, that's one of the first swing records. Um.
But the phrase the term was coined by a gentleman

(55:25):
by the name of Babbitt Barry Michael Cooper, who was
the contributor to all of those cult classic movies of
the nineties, you know, the New Jack Swing, New Jackson,
I mean New Jack Swing, Jack City, Jason's lyric above
the Rim, you know, all of those those classic cult films. UM.
And in fact, he's the one that I reached out to.

(55:47):
We we we keep in touch frequently and UM dialogue
about what this means so much to the point where
he endorsed me. He just finished doing Spike Lee's on Netflix. Um,
she's gonna have it right. So he and I agreed
that he would be the author of my life story

(56:08):
because he was you know, which is truly a blessing
because he was there, he lived it, he understands it.
It's organically from him. UM. Going back to your question quest,
the Teddy Riley invented the genre. UM, and what we
did was we created derivatives of it. So Eddie f

(56:28):
had his version of what it was. Andre is funny.
Andre just said and in an interview maybe it was
the same one with south By. Only three people who
really know how to do New Jack swingers, Eddief, I'll
be showing Teddy Riley. I don't know. I think there's
more than that, but I appreciate being a part of that.
The from your question quest, I think I've never walked

(56:53):
with my own flag. I didn't understand the marketing aspect
of walking my own flag saying hey, you know this
is from my next gig. You know, yeah I did this.
What happens. I let a lot of people take credit
for for my work. And I wasn't necessarily concerned about
it because I wasn't concerned about being popular in that aspect,
because that was already there, Like I was already out
of me sure, So I wasn't worried about, oh, you

(57:15):
know I did this, I wrote this, I wrote this.
I was just more concerned about being popular city bank
at this moment. Can you beat yourself up for a
second real quick, because there might be some things that
people don't know writing wise that you're like, yeah, but no,
but now but seeven now. And that's the whole purpose
of this whole you know, metamorphosis of turning fifty and

(57:36):
now connecting reconnecting with my body, mind and spirit. Um
my book, doing the book from mom running to the
moon and back, and then also embarking on I'm looking
for a home for my life story, you know. So,
And I was gonna say that should the book get optioned,
who would be Yeah, I was gonna say, would be

(57:57):
the captain and obvious Chris Brown playing. That's a question
from a singer standpointcause I don't know What'squincy can sing,
because yeah, no, he gets down now, did you hear? So?
You know, we did the remake Quincy and I remade
Night and Day. Yeah, we have to guess what's so

(58:18):
anybody listening if you want to see the video right now,
we made a mini movie a Secret Garden Radio dot
com forward Slash, Big and Strong. So we had the
video we almost had. I think we probably over a
million views now. But yeah, he remade that, but he
did a new version to it, um and I was
so proud because he called me your box came meet
me in l A. I got surprised for you. So

(58:39):
he started him and his man started working on it.
And his man started working on it, and so I
came in and I said, okay, just leave me alone here,
let me just get this, get it together. So I
took all the stems and so I had to flip,
you know, and I put all the backgrounds on it
and and then so yeah, so we we had fun
with it. It was an amazing time because this is
something that I've told my my young man, I said, listen,

(59:03):
take pops catalog and use it as a springboard. Do you?
But you utilize that this? You know, these songs played
in in over a hundred countries, people who may not
even have English as their first language, but they can
recite the most Probably the most enlightening and the most

(59:23):
humbling experience for me was coming from a studio apartment
in Mount Vernon with me and moms and writing some
of these songs on the back of my notepad, finding
myself in Tokyo, Japan and from the ten thousand Japanese
citizens singing every lyric to the song. That's not normal?

(59:45):
What's normal about that? How does that work? How does that?
How does that happen? I'm was just in my room
trying to do new edition steps, playing the record player,
and so now sudden I'm in front of ten tho
Japanese citizens singing every word. And then when you finished,
they wouldn't clap, but they would look at you. So

(01:00:07):
I was like, what did I do wrong? But they
were being polite so to promote uh in effect mode,
you were part of the Any Heartbreak tour right, and
I'm the first platinum artists on Uptown Records. Yes, yeah,

(01:00:28):
you are. Okay, so you're the first you're the first
prize horse out the out the stable with a million
units sold. Um, how with such three heavy weights on
the tour and I guess we saw I'll be sure
and Bobby Brown, Oh that's right, okay? How with all

(01:00:49):
of you as heavy weights? And I know there was
there was at least from the the b t story.
Have you seen have you seen? Have you seen it yet?
I haven't seen the Bobby because because they mentioned again,

(01:01:10):
I thinking the Bobby one, but that's coming up as well.
So how what was that touring experience like for you
in general? Well, the the Any Heartbreak Tour um something
that Al Hayman put together because he was doing our
tour and the Michael Jackson tour as well. So I
think we were probably like two of the highest grossing
tours of that genre and that in that particular time period. Um.

(01:01:36):
For me, Um, I was that guy. So it was
a great idea to put me on that tour? Did
I know I was that guy? Had no idea because
I'm just the biggest Bobby Brown fan on Planet Earth
and New Additions, So I grew up wanting to be
the six member of New Edition. You know, you know

(01:01:56):
so so. But there was that Mount Vernon, Mount burning Ish,
whatever was going on in me that said I'm in here,
so let's do it, you know, let's let's do it.
So was I intimidated. A part of me was intimidated
because I'm like, man, this is Bobby Brown and New Edition.

(01:02:19):
And then I had to say and I'm I'll be
sure because I had to keep saying it to myself
again in again, because I didn't believe it, so so
so literally, so I had to psych myself up because
I'm seeing imagine, I'm like again, I'm coming from the
studio apartment, singing in the mirror trying to rehearst to
it or whatever. And Madison Square Garden four nights in

(01:02:41):
a row, twenty five thousand people. I'm scared to death,
to be honest with you, But but I'm an autopilot
because this is what I've always wanted to do. So
my philosophy now is when I talk to these young
people that said, look, if you want to get by
the train, you gotta be on the train tracks. And
if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready,
so that's all I did was rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsal that.

(01:03:02):
Mind you, I wasn't Luther Andrews or even Johnny Gail
or you know I was, or Stevie Wonder. So I
was more of a stylist in terms of, you know,
strong structure and melody because Keith, everything is because something
Quincy said to me many years ago that I always stuck.
And then when I when I'm creating, UM, melody is
something that doesn't have a science or a technique to it.

(01:03:26):
It comes straight from God's mouth to your ears, and
so it's a there's a philosophy behind it that's not UM.
Can you repeat that again? That was melody is something
that doesn't have a science or a technique to it.
It comes straight from from God to your ears and

(01:03:46):
through your lips, and you know, And I've always remembered that.
So that's why everything, if you listen to any of
the songs I've ever done, I've never focused on a
commercial hit per se. But I've focused on trying to
make a four minute movie. The peaks and valleys, the excitement,
the sadness, the happiness I tried to encompass every emotion,

(01:04:07):
even like when I was working on Joe to see
jow to see what I would do is I made
them sing. That's why if you listened to the first album,
I recorded an engineered the whole first album along with
the guys and along with Mikozowski and maybe two of
the other other engineers, but handcrafted that entire you know,
that was that was my question, you would understand this

(01:04:28):
and producing a project like besides maybe an effect mode, um,
you know, along with the help of Teddy Riley and
and just and you know, Eddie and just the conglomerate
of our little click. Um, that was my thriller. So
every every producer has that, you know, right right? Yeah,

(01:04:48):
so you know people don't realize. Yeah, you know I
wrote for my lady, right my lady, and you know
part of come and talk to Me Stay all if
you listen to Stay Stay is just a slow version
of that day. So um oh ship. Yeah. So what
happened was what happened was how that came about? Um.

(01:05:09):
I was on tour on the Any Heartbreak tour where
obviously when you know, people don't realize. Also, Charlie Mack
picks you out to Charlie. Charlie mac was actually the
founder of Boys and Men. Michael got him on tour
and um, you know, it was that type of thing.
But I was so busy being I'll be showing tour
that I ran into them, I think even the Carolinas

(01:05:33):
or Virginia. They came, and they came, and at that point,
my security guards were big Weston showed shoot night, so
they were my security guys, hang on what so. So yeah,
so we went around. That's a little brother he basically

(01:05:55):
he you know, we went around the world together. Um.
And and so they came and they said they sang
for me. Um. I think it was some hotel may
it was. The thing was Virginia because we had already
gone through Charlotte at that point in Greensboro whatever, and
so I sent them to go to New York. So
they got in a little white car and no money

(01:06:16):
and I just got, you know, Andre, yo, these cats.
And then I went on BT, as told Donny, and
I'll send you that clip as well, so y'all have it.
But we went on and I started telling I said, Jealousie,
and he was like, who I said? Jealous I said,
was a combination and the fellow's names Joe, Joe, DeVante,
Casey and Dalvin, you know, and he's like Joe Doze like,

(01:06:36):
you know, so I remember that, And so when people forget,
I think it's called there's a disease called selective amnesia.
Oh those people think, you know sometimes No, no, no, no,
I'm not saying necessarily group er say, but just you
know the point is that now I'm enjoying the aspect
of reveal at this point in my life, at fifty

(01:06:57):
years old, where you know, I'm so interested in now
finally telling because I know where all the bodies are buried.
We was me myself, you know, Andre, Eddie, f Teddy,
like you know that core group. You know, I don't
want to leave anyone out because it was so everybody,
Dave holl you know, it's so significant, um, the producers
and so and so forth, and it was like a

(01:07:18):
boutique version of Motown, can you yeah? Yeah? And the
ll ll Hodge you know that he that's him on
somebody for me, he was an incredible in fact Novelle Hodge,
myself and this girl named Lisa Lewis were in a
singing group before the whole heavy d thing. This is
back in ninth grade and tenth grade, so he was
the keyboard playing. That was a songwriting and singing, and

(01:07:39):
Lisa it was a singer as well. Can you can
you talk a little bit too about like Christopher Williams,
because I just remember it was a time when y'all
seemed to be having a certain relationship and since it
was the whole Uptown thing, and I remember seeing y'all
together in the crucis that happened when that would happen
as well? Yeah, Christopher. In fact, we just finished filming
his unsunged. Oh wow, And there's a reveal on the

(01:08:03):
show about because everybody as LaToya Michael um, Yeah, just
too lightsning curly here opposite because Chris is like, you know,
he always said that you were like you said you
would into your art. He was like, I would have
his tea, he'd be ready. He was like, I would
just go smoke a blondie rady. But but again that's

(01:08:28):
only because that cat can sing a parking ticket. Like
to this day, I don't care what he does. He can.
He's just one of those really gifted singers with that
big old Luther andels Teddy Pendergrass type of voice. Um,
and I had to work a little harder. But but
but the point was is that the biggest mistake, and
I think I talked about this in Unsung, the biggest

(01:08:48):
mistake that they made with Christopher because he was so talented,
his team is ancillary team. I guess I don't even
want on the uptown side of it. Instead of them
trying to chase and knockdown I'll be Sure, which was already, Um,

(01:09:09):
you know, it's a big bulldozer, like you're not gonna
stop that. You're not gonna stop that machine just because
he has considered a bigger singer or you know, better
vocalists and so and so. Whether you're not gonna stop
the machine because it's the whole package. So focus and
stay on his lane. And what they were trying to
do was trying to like that. Even the album covers that,
duplicating my private times like and it's like for him

(01:09:32):
like and and and it was like, okay, how do
we how do we bulldoze over I'll be Sure? Instead
of you know, let's just like I'm maybe it's just
the old school of me. If I see somebody that
maybe competition I'm gonna approach you, and I'm gon say,
how can we get some money together? I'm not going Yeah,
come on, two heads are better than one. Let's you

(01:09:53):
know so. And I was a Christopher fan and that's
my man, fifty grand, you know what I'm saying. So
you know he's from the co op. You know I'm
from Mount Vernon. You know. We we rocked together, you
know we and what we did. We did have a
major discrepancy at one point because I took the heat
for something that that was real, real major right after
one of the American Musical Well for Best New Artists,

(01:10:14):
and I took the heat for something. And you know,
being a cap on in the street, you know, you
don't tell you just you just roll with it and
you just deal with it. So finally I think we
he and I talked about it and uh, but they
asked me about it on that was the reveal on. Yeah, yeah,
I want to push it along a little bit. This

(01:10:36):
is a question I always wanted to know. Well, actually, no,
you already set an emotion that your your palate was
wide open for different types of genres. I always wanted
to know, was it Benny Medina's idea for you to

(01:10:56):
do Hotel California. No idea. Yeah, he already revealed that. Yeah.
So I was riding my bike around the neighborhood and
this kid next door, so I had this little it
was like the little rascals. So my little neighborhood it was,
you know, I was. I was the black kid. I
had these two twins named Darmish and Nimish. They were

(01:11:18):
the Indian kids. And this kid named Anthony was an
Italian kid, and Brendan Pheley was the Irish kid. And
we used to all ride a bike together. So it
was like a little melting pot. And this was actually
in Jersey when I was younger, younger, and you know,
we would stick the radio on the window and we
would play, just play those songs. And then he used
to scare us. This kid used to scare us about

(01:11:38):
the Hotel California song and says, you know this is
about drugs and a spooky song as kids. But but
I always remember the song, and then, um, it was
just one of the songs I remember, so I just
wanted to remake it. In fact, no, the reason I
remade I think it was no. I remember I think
it was killing Me Softly, the and everything Killing Me

(01:12:01):
Softly song. That's because I was trying to do natural
high and I didn't understand the lyrics Bloodstone and I
didn't understand the lyrics, so we just scrapped it and said,
let's do Killing Me Softly. That is one day, this
random and so in effect mode that was just that
was you and Kyle. That's just you and Kyle guy.

(01:12:21):
It's me and Kyle, but but myself as a collaborative
effort of myself, Kyle and Teddy Riley as well. And
and how can he wasn't listened as producer. I know
that he was listed as Yeah, he mixed and he
played like instruments, right, he plays him his right because
he didn't necessarily bright because what we did was it
was more Teddy under Teddy's tutelage. And I was worked

(01:12:42):
with him so much to the point where they sounded
like Teddy Riley records. So where But even from a
marketing standpoint, like Andre wasn't like yo, his name well
it was eighty seven, so he wasn't rightly proven yet, right,
he wasn't at all. And what happened was it was
also more of a Teddy and Jean Griffin and I'll
be sure Andre Herrell forget right. So but but again,

(01:13:06):
but Teddy was just Teddy was everything, Like just to
be around him and his creativity and and just being
under the tutelage. I mean, I'll be forever grateful because
it's just something about that cat's rhythm that it's just
unlike any other um and just learning that style and
um that lends itself to so much UM. So, like

(01:13:29):
I said, I was, and this is what I was
saying before. So Teddy was the creative new Jack swing
phrase coined by Barry Michael Cooper, the Great Barry Michael Cooper,
and we did a derivative of it. So Eddie f
did his version of it, kind of like with the
Daniel Jones stuff, which is actually that's actually Kyle West Also,

(01:13:50):
oh say what say? Was? That's why I sound like
Stevie Wonder because Kyle's basically Stevie Wonder. So okay, So
Kyle what did he played? Plays keys? Plays keys, but
just brilliantly like his coloring and his is progression, it's
just something else. It's like he's extraterrest. Did you guys
have anything to do or were you around for the

(01:14:12):
making of the intro album the first with Kenny Green? Yeah, okay, right,
but again you see the signature. It's that all that
eight away kid, that rolling eight away stuff in the
D fifty and a D seventy, you know, it's it's
that kind of in the Juno one oh six, that
all analogy t x A D one z with the
bouncing bass and um but just none of that was

(01:14:36):
on d X seven at all. Yeah. I was trying
to figure out what was your weapon of choice as
far as keyboards for like Nilon, Atmosphere, future pad, you
know all that. And what's crazy is as much as
we called it R and B, it was more ambient
R and B than anything else because I loved voices.

(01:14:57):
Oh right, what oh? This all the oldest love is
so Quincy coined. Though the progression from this love is
so the French blues. So that's all that progression is
called the French blues now, mind you that the genre now,
and this is something that I'm about to launch at
Albi show dot net, which is gonna be um the

(01:15:20):
the the derivative of what New Jack Swing represented because Teddy,
like I said, as the King of New Jack Swing,
and the inventor, Eddie had his version of it, and
then Kyle and I had another version of it, which
now we coin New Jack Sexy. So it's new Jack Swing,
which is Teddy, Kyle and I New Jack Sexy, and
Eddie is like kind of you know, like his version,

(01:15:40):
but Eddie had a real slick you know, production as well.
It's like, it's just it was a great launching pad
in terms of bringing the streets to Wall Street. How
long did it take you out to record in effect?
M hmmm, I want to say maybe three months, three
my or so. Um. And it only sped up because

(01:16:03):
after sitting around Teddy for so long, Teddy would do
records in twelve minutes. Teddy would do a record bridge
chorus and he said, okay, go ahead to get depending
and right, and then you know Timmy Gatlin and so
absolutely I was gonna do you ever think that there
will be I mean, I'm not going to ask the
obvious concert question, but it is the time of reuniting.

(01:16:24):
Do you think there would be a project, a documentary,
a something that will bring these people back together like
the whole New Jack Swing moment movement. I think probably
the most important outside of you know, selfishly me wanting
to do the I'll be short story, um, because that
encompasses so much more than just um. I'll be sure

(01:16:46):
because I've been involved with so many you knows, like
yourself like questions, like it's been involved with working with
so many different artists from different genres. Um. But probably
the most important story. And I like I like the
the introduction of what inside the label was for on
BT because it kind of gave you a little taste
of you know, Rockefeller Uptown, you know, so so deaf,

(01:17:07):
you know, just a little bit of everybody. But the
most important modern day story, I believe it's the Uptown story. Yeah,
and and and and I don't know if you saw
this recently in the press because you know, like I said,
I try to stay out the out of the mix.
And you know, those relates to controversy stuff because that
in the dollar fIF ticket to downtown on the train.

(01:17:28):
But but but like you know, when I would hear,
you know, the Fellows would talk to me about them
doing the Jodice story, and so apparently that's been going
on for the last three or four years. And I
don't know if the fellas are green. You know, I'm
not sure what the politics are about it, but I
did make a statement and say, because it's interesting how
some deal has been made for them to make this

(01:17:50):
story and no one has contacted I'll be sure about
the story now, mind you. And that's just my new
version of me because normal, because normally I just let's
tell the story. Let's it's cool. I'm glad you. So
what was so with you being so involved in Forever,
my lady? What was DeVante's? Oh No, DeVante is brilliant.

(01:18:11):
Let me tell that cat. He's he's the second coming
to Teddy Riley for lack of better terms, but meaning
for DeVante was an extremely talented musician that played several instruments.
He's another one with that rhythm that you can't teach.
It's it's all part of his DNA and his spirit
and he's incredible. Um and at that point, all of
my demo singers. Let's let's go back to how the

(01:18:32):
Jodie things started. So we are on tour. One thing,
that's another. They get to uptown. They as soon as
they get it off, as they get signed, Bob Celeston
and Andre and Jimmy Love and that whole uptown office.
Um boom they do. They go to do the album,
they work on stuff, they start singing to different different

(01:18:54):
songs and doing stuff. Right. But Casey and Joe Joe
were my demo singers. So the reason why Usher and
why why Kevin Campbell? All that stuff sounded so crazy
because my demo singers get this. This everybody's either living
my house or with my demo singers a word, So
I had in one house Casey Joe, Joe, Dave Hollister,

(01:19:15):
Faith Evans, Mon case Um, Anthony, Anthony Hamilton's I had
had to come to some respect on this one. That's
really what's really nice. In fact, big shout out congratulations

(01:19:38):
to my little sister so In Faith and Stevie j
so Um they met at my house because everybody ever
in Kimora Camara, least Simmons, like every like oh did
I say that? No, not in a disrespectful way. She
was just she was another one who was going to
figure it out. Like she was that you know, she

(01:19:59):
was friends, you know, she dated you know, a family
members so on and support. But she was around in
the mix all the time. But she was you could
just tell she just she's going to be something special,
like she's creative and all those things. Obviously she's gorgeous,
beautiful lady the whole thing where she and right, so
she you know, she turned it into something. So I'm
really really, oh absolute gorgeous and I'm very proud of
to see where you know, where she's taking it. Uh

(01:20:22):
But yeah, so every everyone and more. And you know,
like I said, Steve, so so I built I built
an aid that studio up there with all those Mackie
boards and stuff, and I've had it up. So we
used to do short, short time recordings. That's so so
and it was so much fun. So you had Martin Lawrence,
you had Chris Rock because I gave Chris's first job.

(01:20:44):
Chris used to open up for me on tour. So yeah,
I forgot to ask, we we gotta ask? Is Chris mentioned?
All right? So Chris has this hilarious story about the
first time that Bobby gave you a cop be of
Don't Be Cruel the album and he says, like it

(01:21:05):
just froze you. Well, let me give Actually know who
tells the story best is Tony Rock. He Tony tells
me the story just recently again because he was in
Vegas just recently. And so he says, he says, man,
he says, I remember the first time, he says, you
in the studio and my brother was with you. And

(01:21:26):
you know, he didn't have a car, so you drove
him to Brooklyn and your white M three you just
got the white and faces. He drove Moley to Brooklyn,
drove him home, and he came inside and was my mother.
You know, they were sitting around whatever. He says. He says, Yo,
I'll be sure to drop me off outside. And Tony
was like, so he came out and he said, oh, ship,

(01:21:46):
I'll be shut outside in the car with a car
full of girls. You gotta hear Tony tell us that's
the funniest sting. And it's so funny and uh and
uh and then but Chris was something so special about Christopher.
Chris was like, so he would open up. We were
doing a small you know the hotel toll. You know,

(01:22:08):
he start if you're doing a hotel to a little
little ballroom and stuff like that, and Chris, uh, you know,
Crystal coming there and just he just had this whole
quirky like funny like this humor like it was just
something organic from him that just was going to tell you,
this cat is brilliant. He was like brilliant. So you know,
we just loved him and uh, and it was just

(01:22:28):
amazing just to watch this the culmination of just his
his entire career just go through the roof. I mean
just the massive global you know, you know, before the
Kevin Harts and before you know that that that sort
of you know, vehicle with without the social media aspect
of behind it. You know, he was just just brilliant cat.
And what's really nice is that I got so much

(01:22:49):
love for Chris because number one, remember his first movie.
You know, the first movie was The Strictly Business, right
I think he did I'm I'm music was that's well,
that's who the song Natalie's about. Yeah, because the fact
that still have the tattoo, Hellie's tattoo of Mom. So

(01:23:13):
I come to watch. Uh. That's part one of our
episode with I'll be Showa. Uh. Just stay tuned for
part two coming up next time. Quls Classic I'll be
Sure crazier stories we promise see all of course Love Supreme.

(01:23:34):
It's a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode
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