QLS Classic: Babyface (Part 1)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey,
welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I'm Quest Love and I'm
really really excited about the next two episodes of q
l S with our guests Kenneth, baby Face, Emonds. That's right,
the man. We learned a lot about this man in
this craft, enough to fill two episodes, So without further delay,

(00:24):
here is part one. Suprema su Prima roll call, Prima
Sama roll call, So Prima su Prima, roll call, Sumama
roll quest Love in the place. Yeah, what y'all want

(00:44):
to do? Yeah, gotta ask baby Face? Can I get
the ladies if I say no? Roll call? My name
is Fante. You here me now. Yeah, that's the end
of my verse. So I'll take a bow. Some Prima

(01:08):
roll call, some prima prima roll call. My name is Sugar. Yeah.
I ain't no dumbing. Yeah, if I could change the world,
you'd all be dummy. Momma Prima road call skills my

(01:30):
name doing things, hold my way, yeah, but I just can't.
Won't stop until I have my own highway roll Prima
road call. Pretty much some Prema roll called yeah, and
I'm in this place. Yeah, somebody with me. It's okay

(01:51):
because his baby face roll some Prima roll call, so
premo roll my name, my name is face. Y'all in
my place, up in my space. Yeah, round road roll roll.

(02:26):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another edition of Question Love Supreme,
only on Pandora. This is Quest Love on lead vocals.
We got uh Fontikolo Jenkins on vocals and saxophone. Got
Sugar Steve. We got Sugar Steve on percussion, harp and tambourine,

(02:48):
jazz harp, jazz Hart not Jeeves Hart, dass Hart. Okay,
just making sure we got Boss Bill on a slide guitar. Yeah.
Have you got a late lady layah a k Margaret
on French horn? Nah. Yeah. We're a collective team known

(03:08):
as Team Supreme. We're kind of the rabbit hole seeking
uh music, music factory, knowing mused to the stars, unsolicited
life advice, given music dweebs. You all know and love
and Uh. Our very special guest today is one of
the most It's one of the few luminaries UH to

(03:28):
have co written I'll say the soundtrack of your life.
Whether you care to admit that or not. That's not
an exaggeration. Actually said it earlier as I was walking
through that hallway with all those plaques on the wall,
with pretty much every record that was released in the
last thirty years. Wait, I love the fact that, uh
my baby Daddy's also alright at the end, and there

(03:52):
was base compilation about that right right, that was on
the face. Yeah, you see, we already fell into rap alright.
H Kenneth Baby Faced SEVMN is a one man tim
pan alley, one man bale building with the song catalog
to rival all histories Great Slennon McCartney's the Joe Beck Catalog. UM.

(04:14):
He's either written or core authored or produced hit after
hit after hit after hit. UM. He was just recently
inducted into the Illustrious Songwriters Hall of Fame UH this
year of Our Lord two thousand seventeen UM and Our Guest.
He's a forty time Grammy Award nominee, three of which

(04:35):
three of which he was rightfully bestowed the honor of
Producer of the Year. UH. He last year napped or
a few years ago Naptier eleventh Grammy for UH for
the collaborative album with Tony Brixton entitled Love, Marriage and Divorce,
which sounds like the man exactly. Um. It's incidentally the

(05:00):
temph album that bears his name as a solo artist.
And it doesn't stop there. Uh. Two. He entered the
record books having pinned into the Road by my high
school band meets Uh Boys Too Men, which literally spent
the entire summer at number one for thirteen weeks, only
to have that record broken again with his I'll Make

(05:21):
Love to You, which remained number one for fourteen weeks,
dominating the summer of nine. Uh. He's written twenty six
number one R and B hits, countless top ten pop hits,
and his top forties are in the hundreds. Uh. There
is literally no artists that could make a dent uh
penetrating modern radio in the nineties without this man behind

(05:42):
the wheel as a songwriter, producer, or label head. UM
name him Karen White, Whenne Houston, TLC, Eric Clapton, Madonna,
Mary J. Blise. The list goes on and on. Uh.
If I were to list his entire resume, the show
would be over. Lazes and gentlemen, get it up for
Kenneth baby Face everything, Thank You. I It's like our

(06:09):
dream man. Yeah, I feel like I've wasted my entire life.
I'm sorry. This is walking through the hall. It's like,
I feel so small killer. I love how that Jackson's
photo hits you right when you walk into the door.
Just it just literally hit you. Thank you. Um. Okay,
So we have so many questions to ask you. Um.

(06:31):
And because you have history in in Middle America, in Indiana, uh,
I will ask you about your beginnings, like where did
you where did you grow up? Indianapolis, Indiana. Okay, that
was that's the real Midwest. When Kokomo will my hometown. Yeah,
Boss Bills from Kokomo. I never knew there was a Cocomo,

(06:53):
not like yeah, it's a real, real place. Unfortunately, Reading
Franklin wrote a song about it, too, great song. That's
how I knew it learned about it was the opposite. Wait,
there's a song called Kokomo Byta France called Personal in
Kokomo on a Young Gifted on Black album. Okay, yeah,
what was that song about. It's basically just like a
slice of life. I think she was her husband was

(07:15):
from uh from Cokemo at the time, so I guess
they would go back and visit family a lot, and
so this song is basically a Bob and her sister
lived there for a while. I didn't know that you
two might be cousins, might be we all might be cousins. Um,
So can I can I assume because of a lot

(07:36):
of studies that I've done, Um on the rise of
black music in the Midwest, Chicago, Indiana, Ohio? Um that
your parents migrated to Indiana or were they? Was your
whole family history there? Or well? Yes, to Kentucky? And
you know, and then I don't actually might be really

(08:02):
providence Kentucky far? How far is that from Bowling Green?
Do you know? I have no idea looking up later?
All right? Wow, I feel like so okay, So your
family started in Kentucky. Yeah, and my mom my dad
came from He was in Kentucky, he was, and he

(08:22):
ultimately met my mom. He moved. My mom was there
already in Indianapolis. My grandfather used to have a soul
food restaurant called Chicken Shack, and and uh, wow, I
might be the son and my dad met met her
at the Chicken Shack. And he was much older, he

(08:42):
was about those seventeen years older. And a soulful story
of all times, many and he was and he was
from you know, Providence, Kentucky. And as a kid, he
got out of there because he was a coal miner.
And as a kid for about four years he was
doing from like eleven too, you know, fifteen or so,

(09:05):
and then got out of there finally and and made
the Indiana eperson and and did some things. And I
don't think he sung a little bit. Actually he had
a really good voice and stuff. But it wasn't like
we heard music around the house all the time. It
we just would here records being played. But it was
just kind of, uh, just one of those things we
just kind of gravitated to. So you didn't grow up

(09:26):
in church or church came a little bit later, like
probably about six seventh grade. My mom, she wasn't in
church through through all that time. And then then I
got introduced to church and and and I would I
used to sit outside the once choir was done, I
go sit outside so and listen to the radio. So
I was amazed to see objection well because because I

(09:49):
sat up in the balcony and she she could see.
So I snuck out there. Yeah, smart, That's that's how
I learned about James Taylor. Oh man, because I was
listening to the AM station because you know, on all
the black stations were playing church music at that time
on Sunday. Okay, then I found the pop station that
played this guy that played acoustic guitar, which was James Taylor,

(10:12):
which kind of blew me away. So what was the
do you know the first record that you purchased? That's
a good question. I didn't purchase it or purchase for you. Um,
I think this is Jackson five Records, okay, sixth grade?
What James Taylor song? If you're talking about a specific

(10:33):
James Taylor, it was I heard like fire and rain
and um, I think think what was that was firing ring?
So you came of age once the Jackson's had signed
the Motown and yeah, okay, did I read an interview
once where you said you were in the audience when
they did Going Back to Indiana? Yeah, they were at
the concert that was in Indianapolis. Yeah, what was that like?

(10:56):
Because it was I think the audience Mike was louder
than the Ronnie Rossefor's keyboard and everything, like, you know,
you heard the audience more like even in the Public
Enemy sample, the girls screaming like that's what. So what
was that? Like, I think they recorded it a couple
of places, but that was the main place that they

(11:17):
did it. And so I had a terrible seat. I
was sitting in back, so all I could see was
the back of their froze every now and if they
do act, so I could catch a glimpse if they
did a spin. Other than that, all you could see
was the back of the heads. And but it was
I mean, I was like blown away and I think

(11:37):
I had tears running them, you know, face, because I
just couldn't believe I was there and they went there.
They were real because at that particular point, you know,
you you'd seen them on TV and in those days
that's the only time you saw anybody. So when they
came to your town, it was it was amazing. And
the crowd was like crowd lost. They had to stop

(11:58):
the show about four times because crowd kept rushing the stage.
So it was amazing. So just to be their age
and to see them, like, was that was that a
turning point for you? Like? Oh it was? It was it?
That was the point when I knew that that I
wanted to do that, I want to do something like that.
I didn't know exactly what, but I knew that was

(12:20):
I wanted to be in that lane somehow, And I
also promised myself at that point that I would meet
them one day. You know, wow, you did more than that?
How many? How many brothers and sistant? So y'all a
kound it and a lot of y'all can sing? Right?
Or is it just a couple Kevan and Melvine they

(12:42):
could sing and mud because the other ones they couldn't
say they thought they could, but they couldn't really sing.
So were you the youngest of your fifth so that
had one one younger than me? Okay, so so in
high school? Were you like starting bands by that point?

(13:04):
And I started first started singing in um sixth grade,
first picked up the guitar. My brother Melvin brought a
guitar in the house and told nobody not to touch it,
and uh, of course, of course you gotta leave the room,

(13:26):
and uh, and I had to touch it because you know,
there was this girl I kind of had a crushhall
Round the new Boot was her name, and I wanted
to write a song about her. So I grabbed the
guitar and started learning these chords that Melvin had already played,
and I wrote a song to those chords that he
told me I could never play. Do you remember the
song Here I Go falling in Love? Did you ever recorded?

(13:49):
I haven't recorded. I know it though, I never have
you ever thought about recording? It's a simple sprucing up
and no, it's it's it's a said make it any
but it was. Yeah, and I do have the original lyrics.
My mom kept the lyrics that I've written down, so
I really does Did she ever hear the song? Did
the girl ever hear it? Nay, it doesn't go like that.

(14:16):
Did your brother ever find out that? Yeah? He did
get beat up. Well, he didn't beat me up, but
that's when he told me. He he came to me
and said, you know, I don't care how long you try,
how hard you tried, you will never be as good
as I am. Whole talente famous last words. Y'all still

(14:38):
bring that up? No, no point. His name is baby faces,
bring it up like he's baby. Let's take a picture
of the hallway and that's it, just right, hashtag hallway Right.

(15:00):
So you were self taught, like you? Uh? Do you
have formal lessons in anything? I was self taught because
it was a I'm left handed and it was a
right handed guitar, So I had to I had to
kind of teach myself. I had to just kind of
and I played, so I played upside down, So I
can't I couldn't really learn from him other than just
to watch how he what cores he played and listened

(15:21):
to it and try to figure it out the other
way around and so and that's kind of like how
you end up learning. So when did you officially uh
start singing? What? I what? I can I assume that
man child enter the picture earlier? Was this That was
right out of high school. But there were groups all throughout,

(15:42):
you know, um, like sixth grade, I had a group
in my class. We had we sang smooky Robinson song
Here I Go falling in Love, um, and hence my
song world I wrote here I hope on similar I
think spoke he stole it anyway, But so yeah, I

(16:03):
started kind of started singing there. And and the very
first time I sang, Melvin had come home and came
to me and Kevin and said that he had this
group called the Soul Innovations and they were playing at
the mixer at our high school and so in Jackson
five were hot, so he needed one of us to
sing one of the Jackson five songs. So we had
a contest with each other, and that year I beat Kevan.

(16:26):
I could not beat him this year, but so UM
I ended up singing Who's Loving You at this mixer,
and uh, that was kind of like the start of it,
you know. Um. And after after that, then we we
tried our There was a group called Indie five, not
Jackson five. I was in the ind five for a

(16:47):
little bit and then uh in the five broke up.
And then I probably about eighth grade, I had a
couple of groups jim Ni eight, UM, LC, Soul Unlimited, UM,
the Elements. These are all groups in junior high that
I was in. So I'm assuming that because of I

(17:09):
guess that I guess the I guess you could say
that from what I know, uh, in the Midwest, because
the employment and industry was up in the factories pretty
much all families bestowed uh their kids with musical instruments
and that sort of thing of like was there did

(17:31):
you ever personally witnessed like a decliner fallout like the
particular industry leave Indiana at that time? And then you
just saw the decline of interest of music go down,
or that didn't happen until I think late seventies. UM,
because prior to that, the thing that that I remember

(17:53):
the most and I love the most about growing up
was that used to hear music all around the neighborhood.
So you could walk around on a summer day and
just go listening for a band rehearsing somewhere, and that's
how you found your you know, your group members. Somebody
was practicing inside of the garage, so you might hear
a guitar player, bass player, drummer. You walk around the
neighborhood all day long and hear different bands playing. And

(18:15):
we used to have rival bands where bands were going
against each other and stuff, and my my brother's band
with the Sole Innovations and the Dianasans and they would compare.
Somebody was singing like James Brown, somebody was more like
the Temptations. So it was music all around the neighborhood
and everybody was like trying to make it and um
and the city was pretty supportive because even when I

(18:38):
was in ninth grade and with my group the Elements,
they had a contest for local bands too. The best
local bands would be able to open up for curs
Mayfield on his UM super Fly UH tour, and so
and my group we we actually won and so we
were one of the openness for the for that show.

(18:59):
And so it was that musical where there we was.
There was music and musicians and everybody wanted to play
play an instrument. And that I think when that started
to change is when, actually, to be honest, is when
disco happened all the clubs every but there used to
be clubs where bands were playing all the time. Then

(19:19):
when disco started happening, then DJ DJ's kind of like
came into the uh took the band members away, and
that's when it started to change. Did it change for you,
Like did you still feel as though, like, well, I
still want to be a musician even though yeah, I
think I was. I don't know that I had ever

(19:41):
had any choice UH in this It was like something
that was just part of my DNA to music. Was
your family your parents supportive or was this like, um,
get a real job? Where it was it? Well? When
I was right out of high school, I joined man Shout.
In seventy six, I joined man Shout, which was I
was very lucky because I don't know that I even

(20:03):
thought about college, and and all my friends were they
had thought about it and they were going away, and
the next thing I know, maybe I should have to
talk about college. But then um, I got asked to
join this group called man Child, and they had immediately
got a record deal in seventy seven. So I got
lucky and we had a record deal and put out
a couple of records and did it was regional hits.

(20:26):
And but then that only lasted for a little bit,
and we had a downside. And in that downside, I
was staying home with my mom. And then one day
my mom said get in the car and I said, okay,
She said just get in the car. Get in the car,
and she drove me in front of this uh um
story that had a little photo matt the little cubic

(20:48):
those things where they used to get your films made,
and so they had to help one it signed there,
and she said, get one, pick it up, and then
say get a job, get a job. You're gonna sign,
You're gonna you're gonna get a job, and you're gonna
do that. Then I left the house that morning. The
next morning that's when I'm going to move in with

(21:10):
a girlfriend. And so did you never have a day
job like a regular I had. I was a camp counselor.
That was my only job, like a summer job, playing
guitar fans kind of stortady. Okay, so you're you're you're
you're not the plume, your your nickname. Uh I, I've

(21:37):
heard the legend of Bootsy Collins giving you this title.
But how exactly did you come into contact with? Um?
My partner l A Read and and uh and Ko
one of the bass player in the deal. They were
actually doing demos with Bootsy when we were in living
in Cincinnati, and um, we were working on a record

(21:59):
there and sonaty So who was kind of looked downtime
and they were boots here called l A. I think
he already knew him already and asked them to come
do some tracks. So I just walked in the studio
one day, not knowing him really, and um, I think
I met him before and uh and then he uh,
as soon as I walk in, he just goes baby

(22:19):
face exactly exactly. And Uh. I didn't like it. I
didn't like the sound of it. Just just didn't hit
me right, and then he just started. Then he said
it again after you knew I didn't like it, and uh,
and then the guys in the band they kind of

(22:41):
they kind of stuck with it because everybody in the
deal had a good nickname. It was you know, Ko Stick,
D l A D. Carlos and Kenny he so, so
it didn't flow. And they were trying were trying to
find a nickname for me for a while and nothing

(23:02):
was ever working. And then you know, Boosey said that,
and I still wasn't I wasn't good with it. But
then we were out on tour and like five this
is when it happened, and we were doing this song.
I used to sing this song called Sweet November, and
I would sing it, you know, every night, and sing
it the same way, and after you know, D would

(23:25):
go that was Kenny Etmans and it was get a
little Bit of Love. And then one night he changed
and he said that was baby Face, and that night
a whole bunch of girls came back backstage looking for
where's baby Face at? So I was good with my name. Okay, alright, alright,
that's good. Um in Cincinnati, you're you're one of our

(23:48):
you're one of our first guests. Um, that's actually from
the Ohio area. Um. Again, a lot of myth has
been made of that area and starting like a lot
of those groups. But I mean what was in Cincinnati
was it was something in the water at the time.

(24:08):
It was just like it was like breathing in, chewing
gum and walking like it's it's the whole Midwest area,
because it was just as Ohio, it was Chicago, it
was Indianapolis. Um there was because you know even from Indianapolis,
you know you had West Montgomery and um, um there

(24:28):
was Freddie Hubbard's Uh. There was just something something about UM.
Maybe maybe it was the hard times initially and and
and um people finding themselves, but there was something that
we were given as just as musicians. And I say

(24:49):
the same thing about you know Detroit, and like what
happened in Detroit where you had so many artists that
were from this general area around in Motown. You know,
they were all in a ten mile radius. You had
so many from Dina Rolse to Stevie One, they were
all in the same area. What happened? What was in
the water there? And it seems like that that same
idea went around that whole Midwest area about the musicians

(25:13):
that ultimately came from there. But unlike Detroit, I mean,
there really wasn't. I mean, they were started King Records,
which I assumed that King Records had falling apart after
James Brown went to Polydor in seventy, So I mean,
but I don't think there really was an epicenter per se,

(25:33):
like for Bootie's generation, James Brown's, you know, being in
that area and recording there all the time, that was
like inspiration for him in the Ohio like cats then,
but I mean for for the generation that's in the
late seventies going into the early eighties, like did you
feel like being from Ohio was like, oh okay, we

(25:54):
could still be a thinking or was it like we
gotta go to l A or we gotta go to
New York too? Well? Interesting like l A. L. A.
Red who was from Cincinnati, he came to Indianapolis and
lived in Indianapolis because he felt like that was a
place to go. And the reason was because in Indianapolis
there were clubs, there was a place to play, and

(26:16):
that didn't exist in Cincinnati. So at least in Indianapolis
you had a place where you could practice your trade,
and that wasn't really possible in Ohio. So a lot
of the guys from from Ohio came to Indianapolis many times.
In fact, midnight start they were always in Indianapolis playing
at this club called Mark four Um and um. That

(26:39):
was kind of it. So that but the whole thing,
even in Indianapolis, the whole the whole idea of making it.
You knew you I had to either go to California
at that point. It was always about California in Chicago
and because you aren't gonna make it just by standing
there in any case, whether that was Ohio India. Now

(27:01):
you meant you mentioned like seven or eight groups that
you've been in between Elementary and before man Child. But
what was it about you meeting your partners in the
deal that made it stick? Like okay, this is my
this is my official band. Well that was it was
a long road getting there. Like when in going through Manchild,

(27:21):
I met man Child, didn't morph into the deal. No,
I was in three of you though, right, No and
man Child. Um. Darryl Simmons was in Manchild, but he
was the only one and uh so l A used
to come to Indianapolis, as I said, and we would.
He had this group called I don't know what the

(27:45):
essence and uh before he turned it into the deal
and then he started the deal. And I saw the
deal at this club called the Zodiac and probably and
they were already kind of jumping on the whole time
and the Prince and Time thing and like they were
wearing leg warm as they had they had eyeliner on it.

(28:08):
They had gone all the way over. And I walked
in there and I had my members only jacking on it.
Um And so I was clearly not in the in
their realm maybe some gap jeans and maybe Georgia's at
the time, but um, I was not. I was not
in that lane whatsoever. But I saw how great they were.

(28:29):
They they were entertainers and um and I met him
at that particular point and and just kind of said hello.
And then it's probably about a year later so I
heard I went and joined this another band man should
have been Nomad. You like it. It's been in Michigan

(28:50):
called crywd Pleases, which was basically a top forty band
and which was probably the best. You know, more people
should play in top forty bands because in playing the
top forty band. You learned other people's music, it teaches you.
The Beatles did that in Hamburg exactly, they had to,

(29:11):
so it was it was great. So we played the Time,
we played Earth winning Fire, we'd played you know, cooling
the Gang and songs that you hate playing nightly and so.
Um So, while I was in that band, I also
kind of felt like this was never gonna go anywhere.
I was trying to get everybody, you know, to think

(29:33):
about maybe we should try to do a band at
this point, maybe we should try to get a record deal.
But at that point there were some guys that was
already sixty years old, so it was probably a little
late to be going for um. So, then one of
the guys in the band's got named Hollywood. He was
in banding. He was talking to l A on the
phone and he was a keyboard player and he was
trying to join the deal. So um I heard talk

(29:56):
to l A on the phone, and I heard this
demo that they had the song called turn It Up,
and it was like so funky and so it was
just it was just perfect, and I was like, damgn
I wish I was part of that group. And I
asked Hollywood to ask l A if they had room
for a guitar player. M and just put a word
in for me. So Hollywood asked them, and the word

(30:17):
came back that I wouldn't breed enough, so I couldn't
join the band because I just didn't have enough breed.
I don't know what you're hip enough exactly. Thank you.
Breed was like it was like kind of like it

(30:37):
was the Prince in time, you know you. I didn't
wear leg warmers. Okay, I always think a breed is
kind of elitist, but it's okay. So I wasn't breathe enough.
So but I was because up and knock. But you know,
I had changed. I didn't have members only jacket on
it anymore. I had changed and that I was wearing

(30:59):
leg warmers and stuff with them. But LA hadn't seen
that yet. So um and how that happened, how I
ultimately how he was able ultimately to see that as
I had written this song UM called slow Jam from
the next Start song and uh, the manager UM knew me,
and he gave them the song, and they had heard

(31:21):
the song and they wanted to record the song, so
they asked me to come down to Cincinnati to help
them record the song. And when I went down there,
that's when I went and I was singing the demo
in the studio. That's when La saw me and heard
me singing. He said, who is that singing? And he
walked in he saw me and he saw I had
bread it up. So wait, you you play slow Jam

(31:52):
one no Parking on the dance floor before you join
the deal? Yes, I believe it's on the no park Yeah, yeah, okay,
So that was they were at that time. They had
signed the deal up and they were doing demos on
the deal, trying to get them a record deal midnight start.
And so when I came down there, they asked me

(32:13):
to stay down because I was really good and on
making four track demos on that little tich four track cassette.
I was good on doing backgrounds and everything, and and
they were like bouncing and yep, it sounds like the
final product. It was all the way there. But wait,
what were you and eight one? Like? How how progressive

(32:40):
was technology for you too? Were you already mastering drum machines?
And there was there was a drum machine. It was
like the seven or seven rolling seven or seven, So
you just had to teach yourself like how to yeah,
just you know the O, B X and UM, so
you kind of worked with that and and then just

(33:01):
doing the vocals, you know, just bouncing the bouncing the vocals.
So I was able to make good demos on the
four track, and that's why I was asked to stay
to help make help the deal, make demos and maybe
do some songwriting with them as well. And so I
stayed there. I told the crowd please, I wasn't coming
back for a little bit. I'm gonna help do these demos.

(33:21):
And then actually I did. After we finished the demos
and I went back to the crowd pleas and I
was kind of saying because like my world was back
into top forty. And then l A called me probably
about a month later and said, good news. We got
a record deal. And I was like, good for y'all.

(33:47):
And then he said they got some other good news
and I said, what's that. He said, talked to the
guys and they want you to join the group. So
that was it. I was able to get away at
that point. So that was And so when you asked,
was that why was was that the group? It was?
It wasn't so much just the group. It was my
relationship with l A. Me and l A. We we

(34:10):
clicked at that point, and we we wrote and we
produced and we kind of just kind of saw that
saw the things the same way. And it was kind
of like that partner that I needed. I needed to
give him confidence and he gave me confidence. A thing.
But being as though you were the last member to
join the group, yep, and we all know, especially in

(34:34):
today's model, like groups aren't even encouraged anymore. It's all
about solo x because they're easier to control. How are
you able to even suggest or exercise your powers in
this ensemble? Like even though l A is your your advocate,
are the other fellows filled in a certain way? Like? Um,

(34:56):
you know, yeah, I didn't come in there. There was
a couple that one in particular that didn't want me
there at all. And I was also voted his name
is Kamal and I'm playing. I was also voted to
not sing either. Well, how many singers were there? There

(35:17):
was two and I was voted I didn't come into
beation and so but I was okay with that because I,
you know, I just wanted to I just want to
play guitar and write some songs and and so part
of that. Part of that was they knew that I
wasn't trying to I wasn't trying to take anybody's place,
was gonna shoot him up? Movies? Who's that singing lead

(35:39):
as Carlos? Uh? Okay? So but to me your backgrounds,
So were you ready in three had that moment came
to sing lead? Like? No, not really, I mean I
was doing demos that we're getting songs placed, you know,

(36:03):
because I did a song for the Whispers at that time,
a very place a song for the Whispers a couple
of times, and uh before even before like this, and uh,
I even did this parody record of I Gotta Find
It you will never find it never. But so we

(36:28):
got our phones ready. Okay, So we were out on tour.
The very first two we went out on was with
Luther and DeBarge. You were on part of that tour, Yeah,
I got I got questions. So um so I was
like a major fan of l and I loved all

(36:49):
this love and so for the fun of it, I
did this little song called All My Children because we
used to write, we used to watch All My Children musician.
That's what you do if you afternoon daytime. Yeah, you
find your soap. And all my children, I only want
to admit that, thank you all my children. So, uh

(37:12):
so we watched that crazy and then I wrote, so
I did you know instead of all this love, I
did all my children, um chude and comes on. And

(37:33):
it was very bad, and uh it was great. I
even played it for L one day and L looked
at me like, are you like, are you making fun
of me or what? Yeah? We stay ready. I could
give you a whole thing on light skinned thing, but anyway,

(37:53):
it was rough on us at that time. I'll be
shorter than that's before. That was before it was a
whole different thing. But light Skin Brothers ruled the early
eighties completely. Yes, we did the iron fist the gun maybe,
and then the nineties so so we did this song
and then uh for somehow another did Griffy heard it right,

(38:16):
and I want you to do that on my wife.
So he asked me to do it on char right,
and so she recorded that song. Yes, yeah, we'll find it.

(38:37):
We'll find it. I'm googling right now. Wait a minute,
this is crazy, all right? Did he get commercially released.
I think it did. It was the first It was
the first production that me and l A were able
to do, and the first time we felt like we
was Jimmy and Terry. We got we got to get
on a plane and go go away and you know,
go to California while the band was somewhere else. And

(38:59):
you know, we used to hear that jim and Terry
used to do that with the Times, and we was
we was Jimmy and Terry. Turn down. Wait a minute,
that's weird you're saying that, because dog all right. So
when Griffy passed away, his daughter was slowly e baying
a lot of not stuff like matifacts from there. But

(39:23):
there were so many half inch tapes of I just
wanted the soul trained stuff um. But I didn't even
bother to go through the solar Um half inch reels
and stuff that I bet you it's there. What was
what was that Griffy like? Man, he's just one of
those people that we've read about and I mean, what

(39:45):
do you think he was like? Well, at the time
I heard that he might be Sugar knight ish, Well
he was. I mean, he put you, he put your
cover sound I've heard that, but I've never heard Dick Griffy.
I mean, my my impression of him was always like this.
I never heard no big red stories like you know. Okay,

(40:08):
So if you're gonna learn that, I'm I'm a I'm
a soul train of file. So there's a lot of
episodes in which Don will sarcastically, uh talk about Dick,
mainly to like Walter and Scotty from the whispers or
remembers of shalamar Um, you know, like does does your
boss did grief? You know that you're here in wink

(40:30):
wink wink that sort of thing. So exactly what was
Dick Griffy Like, Well, Dick and down we're very close initially.
Then you know, the whole soul train thing was there,
and basically Dick decided to go off and do records
and and down went the TV. Um. Dick Griffy was

(40:53):
a black man, about as black as they come, and um,
and he was he's scared some white executives. They were
they were a little afraid to deal with him because
they thought because he might actually do something if you
mess with him, messed with the stuff. Uh. And he

(41:14):
was also kind of scary sometimes too to talk to
you know, he checked your hand, you know, please meet
you exactly. So he was conduct business with the gun
on the table. But so and people didn't want to,

(41:38):
like they didn't want to mess with us because we
were signed over solo records. So for a long time
we couldn't get any work anywhere else because when they
hear you would did Griffy, Oh that's all right, not
to pass on you. So for a second, did he
kind of jackie to his house producers, like, were you
kind of the nude? He he got l A on

(42:02):
a contract. I refused to sign UM, but he did
get l A. At one point in l A was
doing it kind of because l A was kind of
like the guy that was kind of looking out for
the band the whole time and making sure that, you know,
everybody was okay. So in the in the interest of
being manager and trying to taking care of the band,

(42:24):
being the band leader, he got ended up getting in
this contract with with Dick and I didn't. I never
signed UM. So he had l A and I was
like not for it. And at one point I just
kind of like just started standing up to him. Um,
Dick was he he was a brilliant guy at the

(42:44):
same time, though you know he knew Um, I can
say that I don't think that our careers would be
where they are without him. He did have us come
out here. He did, um open up his doors with
a studio where we worked over there for for years
and learned our trade. We learned how to produce under
his under his house. What was his what was his

(43:07):
muscle like at radio? Because I want to know how
much of say, okay, let's take rock steady. How much
is that, Hey, this is a really great song, let's
make it a hit? Or how much was like how
much he say? How how does that work out? You know?

(43:30):
Without you? Uh? You know you you obviously had your independence,
you know, um, your promoters that you'd send out there,
uh here, and our guys that would find them find
the songs. And you had to have the guys that
you would pay to go out and get the songs played.

(43:53):
There was a lot of that and a lot of
a lot of paying different folks. But the reality is
that you can't he can't really buy a hit. Um
a song was gonna ultimately take off because it was
a good song, and so he might have had a
song that he believed in and if it wasn't that one,

(44:13):
then it just wasn't that one. But the difference was
that he was finding artists and and finding producers that
actually were giving him great music, and he's the one
that picked it out and would say, that's the record.
This is the one part of the reason why I
have a solo career in the first place. It is
called it did Griffy. Part of one of the stories

(44:34):
is when we were doing our second album, UM, the
Second Deal Second Deal album Material UM. The only reason
why we were producing that because the manager that we
had had fell into a lawsuit with Midnight Star and
we had we shared the same manager. So Midnight Star
decided that they were not going to uh step Gordon Nope,

(44:59):
that was perform Pablo Davis was afterwards, they were not
going to produce us produce our next album. So we
were kind of like left there open without a producer.
So the Callaways did the first album. Callaways did the
first album, and we're Reggie Callaway did the first album,
and uh so then it was on us to do it,

(45:21):
are someone to do it? And then Dick called me
and l I said, well, won't you guys do it,
and we said, okay, uh sure you could do the record,
go do it. So we decided to go in and
start recording the record. So we started putting it together
and there was one song called Sweet November that I

(45:44):
had saying that I had sent in for the whispers
Um and he said, well, why why are y'all doing
this song? And they said that, well that doesn't really
fit l I said, they don't really fit Carlos in
d and he goes, oh, then why come why aren't
you singing it? Why? Wow? Wow, won't won't Kenny sing it?

(46:06):
I wouldn't baby face yet? And then uh, he said,
well Kenny's not the least singer, so that don't make
no sense. Then Kenny's just singing song. And then they said,
well we gotta have a meeting on that, so we
had to get inside. You were like, yes, not really
because I knew it was gonna be some trouble. So
but I'm singing that? Is that you the what do

(46:28):
you call it? Matt? Yeah? Like like the survivors remorse,
Like did you? Deep down inside? I want to sing
that song and be lead singer. Here's the thing I
always put songs first, and so I didn't want to
give the song away unless someone could do justice to it.
So that's why it's always been easy for me to

(46:49):
give songs to someone. If I feel like they took
it to the next level, then song first, and so
in the band the guys, That's why I wasn't gonna
give it to the guys because I knew they couldn't
pull that one off. And uh and I was hoping
that you know, Scotty would sing it. So um when
it came back, we had a meeting about it and
they voted that I do not get to sing voting

(47:14):
and so a college So the l A talked to
Dick and uh, I told him what the answer was,
and Dick said to him, so, well, let me put
this wave. You guys want a record deal, then he
better sing that. That boy better sing that song. So

(47:34):
so so that's how I started singing a song. Okay,
you mentioned something and I always wanted to know. Um.
Whenever I've seen the Whispers perform in concert on television,
both watch Walter and Scottie are singing the exact same time.
Who is singing between us two? They both sang, but

(47:56):
there's no flange effect, like they're literally singing. They they
both sing that is creepy one is whispering, and so
like all their leads are pretty them both singing pretty
well on the records. Um, they will switch off. Scotty
is the main guy, but when it comes to the

(48:18):
double and Walter would come in and you know, it's
that's how that's how it worked. So like Rock State
didn't want to track them the same at the same
time or would it beat separate, you still do it separate,
but they just matched. So they're both singing Simultan. So
I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna take the bridge and you
take the verse and I'll do this that live and
you do that. It depends on you know, if it's

(48:39):
the course going and you'll see both of them going.
But they would they'd be split off because it's all right,
so I just got another bachelor soul train and um,
so they're doing Lady and so part is happening, but
they're literally just doing it both at the same time.
I'm like, there's no one freaked out that they're just

(48:59):
literally singing like at the same time. Mean kids, babe,
Like they're staying at the same time. Like, how okay,
And so that didn't not freak you out. It's just
like they just saying together. Yeah, they're just saying together.
And that's I mean, like I said, most of the
time it would uh Scotty would lay it and then

(49:20):
walk to would coming and shadow it. That's crazy, that's crazy.
So was was I Love You babe? That was your
official first single? Okay, so what would you at least
then did you? Guys? Well, I'm glad you mentioned the
Time thing because I was like it was kind of

(49:41):
hard to ignore. And no, well, I mean like the
just the overall imaging was heart was unavoidable. Um when
those both those even prints himself and with the Time project,
So was there? I mean, how do you guys create

(50:06):
your own path without getting compared and that sort of
thing too? How do you make away without going down
the same path exactly? Um? Interesting enough. I think that
we were certainly influenced by them, but when you listen
to it, it was it was completely different. Music was um,

(50:29):
but we were certainly as there was this that word
breed and the way you dressed, the way you uh
you know, we we will make up. We had eyeliner
and makeup all the time. It wasn't like just on
the stage. It's like, no, that's what you do daily.
My mom was like do we need to talk about something? UM,

(50:54):
But it was like, you know, it was kind of
like what you you owned it in that way, and
and it was kind of like it was your your attitude.
It was all part of part of the attitude. And
so that would go as well into the music. And
and so our lead singer d who was really great
at coming up with great hooks and and just that

(51:15):
whole field it was. It was really driven a lot
by him, and I think I'm I brought more of
the ballot, the ballot thing to it to the table,
but then I learned how to be breeding and from
on the keyboards and um as well as guitar. It
was because there's a certain way that you know, Prince
used to play the guitar, how he would how he

(51:36):
would groove in a very breed style in terms of
whether it's funky, but there's also little licks that came
from the whole Minneapolis sound that was we have to
we have to say it was Prince because you know,
when we talk about the time, you know, Prince did
those albums that was and so he created it was.
That's how genius Prince was that he created a whole
another sound that was him. But it's sounded like it

(52:00):
was the time. Did you guys ever get to meet
any of those guys during your during that time touring period? Um?
Not really. I think we we ran into Jimmy and
Terry here at Carlos and Charlie's. There was a club
here called Carlos and Charlie's. Uh, and we were scared

(52:20):
to go up and say, hello, there there, y'all all
have on Susan sunglasses. Oh my god, Oh my god,
it's Jimmy and Derek. Should we say something now? They
ain't gonna know who we are? Just forget it, really, yeah,
And so we kind of stayed where we were in
so he saw him a couple of times in Carlos

(52:41):
starts boy where he got the nerve to go up
and say he was up. When did y'all first meet?
Because I mean, elephant in the room, you two were
the superpower. No, we were just getting started. We was
so we hadn't quite like girlfriend hadn't come out yet,
and um and the boys. Uh, So that all that

(53:03):
stuff kind of like when it finally came then it
then it kind of hit. But for a minute, we
were just you know, we were watching Jim and Terry
win with Janet. We was like, we want to do that,
you know, um, and it didn't seem like we were
looking for our Janet and didn't think we could never
find our Janet. And I guess Fans was our first Janet,

(53:24):
but um, but we kept we were just so amazed
by them in their production that that's it's pretty much
who we want to be. So when the Eyes of
the Eyes of a Stranger was that the official last
deal album before you all right before well, I mean

(53:44):
did they officially break up? Or yeah, we we we
broke up? Okay, Um, how did that happen? Oh, there's
a there's a story and everything. But um, but we
were when we went out on tour with uh two

(54:07):
Occasions was like our big song at that point, and
uh so it was the biggest that it had happened
for us coach Initially when we went on tour with
Luther and DeBarge, it was kind of a learning moment
because we were getting killed every night. I gotta ask you, okay,

(54:27):
what was because we we had Chef Gordon on the show,
and he shared many luther nightmare scenario we know from
his reputation of controlling things. Uh, what was touring on
a Luther Anders tour like well? And how controlling was it? He?
First of all, he was nice as hailed us um. Yes,

(54:54):
he was really nice to us um, except for like
the very first date that we did. The very first
date we played was in Indianapolis, which was it's so
sucked because we didn't want that to be our first date.
We had like five dates in front of it, but
it was a freak snowstorm in the South, so everything
got canceled and so we ended up playing our first

(55:17):
date in Indianapolis. And and what happened that night was
we were in our breed moment and and some of
the guys went a little too far with the breed okay,
and they put kind of some lipstick on along with
Day and so it was just kind of a little

(55:39):
too rock and roll, and we were saying, y'all shouldn't
do that, and they said, now we're doing it. So
we went up and played. And I still remember playing
that day and just not really being able to breed
on stage and it feel like it just was. It
just felt like and then it was over. And uh
and after we got off stage, Um, the tour manager came,

(56:02):
our our our road manager came said that all right,
word came from Luther that if y'all don't take that
makeup off and stuff like that, y'all gonna get kicked
off the tour. And said what he said, Look, they
are they already think this tour is gay enough already.
So and in the average that was a thing at
that point. And r it wasn't trying to Luther wasn't

(56:23):
trying to show that because it just it seemed like
boy and so and we were we were actually comfortable
without the lipstick. So we actually ended up doing that.
But the whole thing was Luther when he when we'd
run into him in the hallways, he was great. Uh.
In fact, he he ended up getting mad at the barge.

(56:48):
He was so kind of pisted at them for some
reason that we ended up getting better dressing rooms. And
then and then we got then we started getting invited
into where he would eat, so it would be fried
chicken in and everything. We we we got to eat
really good with him. So we were like the darlings
of the tour, but we were still getting our bus

(57:09):
kicked nightly because we would play Luther. First of all,
there's no beating Luther, but we play and we at
the at that time, my song was body Talk, and
we would play nightly, and then at the end of
Body Talk, every night it would be this whole thing
of we finished and they say next up is the bars.

(57:32):
Place would go crazy, and it was just it was
hurtful and so got it hurt to go out nightly
to play and get your book kick and so kind
of like, you know, me and l A didn't like that,
and we felt like we needed to rehearse a lot
more so um and try to figure it out. And
that's when we start figuring out because we you know,

(57:52):
we come from cities where you battle. You don't just
get your buck kicked you. You gotta figure out how
to you know, how to in when you go up
on stage. It's not it's not a thing where you
just accept that. So one night we got really lucky
because l got sick. That means everybody else tried to

(58:16):
sing his parts and it was best night we ever had.
And then then it ultimately then years later when we
had our When we started doing two occasions, it kind
of turned around. And one of the best things that

(58:38):
ever happened for two occasions on that tour was, um,
I think I had my wisdom teach. Something happened with
my wisdoms. People were impacted and I had to get
them taken out in the middle of the tour. So
there there was two shows that I could not do
and I was just all messed up. And so they
went on without me, you know, on a couple of shows,

(59:00):
and then they said, uh, you gotta come back and
do the show because you know, we got two occasions
and stuff. So I said, okay, but I can't do
the whole show. I can only just come in on
two occasions. So one night it was in New Orleans
that the UM that's the big place of the Palace

(59:20):
super Dome, and so I couldn't go on. They did
most of the show and then they said, we're sorry,
but you know, very Face, we said he couldn't make
it tonight, but baby Face, he felt so bad that
he's gonna come out here and and for farm anyway,
So I had on a white suit and I like
walked across the stage in pain. This is the Michael

(59:45):
Jackson remembered the time exactly, and I sat down at
the fiano and then Boom Doom, Doom doom, and started
and started singing place wing crazy. It was the first
time we got our DeBarge moment back where it was
like it felt like it's DeBarge here. And and so

(01:00:10):
it went so well. I just made it a part
of I was sick every day. Yeah, it works so
business it worked well. And then ultimately we were going

(01:00:32):
through that whole tour and and we were starting l A,
and we were getting more dates for in terms of producing.
And the truth was we we felt like we put
more time into we were working on our trade more
than the other guys were at that point. And so
it got to a point where we felt like this
is what we need to do, this is this is
what's calling us. So it was ultimately l A and

(01:00:54):
I decided that if the guys want to stay together,
and that's fine, but we wanted we needed to leave
at that point and start producing. So how they take
the news that we just wanted to produce and they
I don't know, you guys, Darrell Darryl was like he
wasn't actually in the group, um d and a couple

(01:01:14):
of guys that he was never breed enough anyway, a
bunch of real judgmental um so. But Darrell, Me and
Darrell grew up together. I knew the known Darrel since
eighth grade, so um so he came and um he
was always kind of co writing with us or doing
something with us. So so we came out here ultimately

(01:01:36):
in and started, uh started trying to work out here.
So was it scary to like, we've such an established
especially when you had such a major hit, Was it
scary for you or by that point or just like okay,
by that point we were kind of having success with
because that was probably eighty eight, so things were just

(01:01:58):
starting to come together. You know. Girl friend had been
out and um how did how did pebbles coming into
the picture Because for the longest one I used to
beat right on magazine. I used to see a lot
of stock photos with her and Charlie Wilson. I always
thought that was Charlie Wilson's artist. Well, Charlie did Mercedes Boy,
and so we were here uh in l A and

(01:02:20):
we went to meet with a little Silas and Cheryl
Dickerson we met with Little, and Little told us about
Bobby Brown, said, this gave Bobby Brown's you know, you
know in new addition, he's you know, he's doing this record.
He's got this record called Girlfriend Out, and we think
he can be hot, and we weren't really sure about
that yet. And then we um also met with Cheryl

(01:02:43):
Dickinson the same day and she said, you need to
go check out this girl named Pebbles. She's in the
studio now. I think her record is done, but you
need to go check her out. So we got in
our car and start to leave, and and when we
were in the car that moment, then we heard Bobby
Brown just happened to be on the Red to You
doing a live show and he was singing girlfriend and

(01:03:05):
he went for a note my girlfriend and didn't hit it.
Then he said I hadn't sing this song anyway, and
then we all we gotta work with him. That's that's
what sold us, Yeah, because the fact that he just

(01:03:25):
like he didn't care, and that's like, okay, that attitude.
Put that attitude on the right record, and that's that's
that's crazy. So we decided to work with him. And
then then a couple of days later, we went over
and met PEPs in Studio students studio called studio masters,
uh and um. When we walked in there, she like

(01:03:46):
had she was like rich because she like had Monty.
It had this fruit plate and we never had all
that stuff. She had fruit plate fruit boy, and we
were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is crazy. What is

(01:04:07):
she rich or something? And then she played us, She
played us Mercedes Boy. I said, oh my god, this
girl's gonna be She's gonna be a hit. And so
as we were starting to walk out, I told l A.
I said to l A, I said this is girlfriend.
She's girlfriend. And he said, no, you can't do that.
I said, she's girlfriend. We need to do that. And

(01:04:28):
what it was that we had already met with them,
ed Exstein going, she did all right without it. We

(01:04:49):
never with her, and we had played those played those records.
We had played a few records, and a bunch of
the records they were kinding and we were I was
kind of to stuff about that, and so because I
because we had played rock Steady and stuff, and they
were like, I don't see I don't hear it. I
don't hear it, and and well, we were just playing
this stuff demos, demos. Did they sound like the final three?

(01:05:11):
Did good demos? You? And so they what kind of
funny on some of the songs. I said, okay, okay,
but they heard girlfriends said, well we can, we can
do girlfriends. So they were doing I'm gonna give real numbers.
We were They wanted to do three songs for twelve grand,
twelve grand all in okay, um and but that was

(01:05:32):
great for us at the moment. Its twelve three songs, Okay,
we'll do it, so all including studio costs, that studio everything, yes,
but we were like we're done. We were good for it.
So then um, then we got this uh, so we
played we played that song for them and then when

(01:05:52):
I when I heard Paps, I said, this is girlfriend.
So I decided to take I told that we gotta
take this song and give too. We gotta give it
to PEPs. We gotta give it to PEPs. And so
PEPs was like at that time I heard I ended
up coming back and playing a song for PEPs, says
I gotta have the song. I gotta have a song.
And then PEPs and l A said we can't do this.

(01:06:12):
Man we can't do this. And then PEPs was married
at the time, this guy named George Smith, and so
Pebs George have money. M So George came and said,
what do you want for the song? And then we said, well, um,
this is what they've given They've given us this much
for the song, giving us twelve gram for three songs.

(01:06:35):
You were honest, yea, and so he said, I'll tell
you what I'm gonna give you for the one okay
exclusive so but and the money was good, But honestly,
it wasn't completely about the money for me, like I said,

(01:06:56):
it was always about the song and where did the
song belong? And Pebbs she was girlfriend her, Yeah, she
was girlfriend and so and I said, we we got
to do it. So I said, l A, we're doing it.
So l A did it, and he called ed x
Stein and ed Xtein customed out and and Raman Hervey

(01:07:17):
everybody hated l A. Um, you'll never work in this town.
It was. It was completely like that, and and l
A got the whole It was all on him because
they thought he did it, but they didn't try to
get well soon or none of that stuff wasn't wasn't
no paper sign. Okay, cool, cool? But can I ask

(01:07:37):
you the song Girlfriends as you're talking about it? Because
that was was that your first? The first female Anthony
feel like you wrote? Because we were dancing to this
today in the house, me and my girlfriend, and we
were like, how did he write this? What was he thinking?
And how did he know? I mean I was I
was writing stuff like that all the time, so it was, Um,
you think about what the girls wanted to say and
how they felt. You know. That's the one thing I

(01:08:03):
didn't ask you. What is and especially for you because
there's there's so much freaking output and volumes of work
that you have. What is your daily routine? Do you
wake up at six in the morning? Do you always
keep a dictaphone on you at all times? Are you
singing and you have a bunch of answer machine messages

(01:08:26):
of basin? Sometime sometimes I do that, but then most
of the time not because I don't usually go back
to it. Um. I always used to feel like if
it was good enough idea, I'll remember it and it
will come back to me. Uh So you don't know
dictaphone from no but but but you're right, because sometimes

(01:08:50):
come sometimes I will do it, and I'll go back
and I'll hear something that's actually was a good idea.
So looking back, I do wish I kind of had
some somethings because I would remember things. But it's not
necessarily the process. The process is usually just getting in
a room and and if it's co writing, if it's
game with people, it's it's the moment and it's the
and just thinking of the who we're writing for and

(01:09:13):
what the story is and and uh and and you
go there. It's I think so much has has had
to do with my growing up and being in love
throughout from kindergarten on and always having a heart and
and being willing to be in love when to be
loved and broken hearts and all that stuff. My hearts
were always being broke by girls that didn't even know

(01:09:35):
they broke my hearts because I they didn't even because
I never so but it was but it was like
the whole round of new Boat thing was a major
thing for me because this is a girl I had
like a crush on the sixth grade, went all the
way up to eighth grade, and so she was like
my first kiss and my first disc and it was like,

(01:09:55):
um so it was major and like after that, so
I wrote my first song about her, and I wrote
my first really sad song after her as well. So
it's like here I go, falling in love to the
Bitter Taste of Life. So it was like, yeah, wrote
the Bitter Taste of Life. Can I ask you a question,

(01:10:20):
do you find it easier or do you find actually rather,
do you find like your love songs to be better
than your breakup songs or vice versa? You know, like,
what's more, it's the same, the same. Yeah, it's it's all.
It's all about the heart. So whether it's love or
broken hearts, it's all comes from the same place. I

(01:10:44):
want to ask you about the Bobby Don't Be Cruel
album when you say you heard him, you know he
just didn't care and you know he missed a note
and you just heard that attitude. Uh, did y'all comes
in with the songs already done or did y'all do
it together? Um? The songs were kind of already done.
There were songs that I had written, like like, there's

(01:11:04):
a whole story on RONI Man, remind you know every
little step, Yeah, yeah, let's go there, Let's go there
is their virgin every little step with Ralph singing lead.
So that all that was a lot. It's not a
complete lot you've heard, I've heard it is a complete lie. Alright.

(01:11:31):
That's like se Roni was. That song was old by
the time it came out, right, it was well, yeah,
because this song was actually I think Roni came out
in eight and it was written in eighty two. It
was written on the uh Luther Debarce tour, Oh wow,

(01:11:54):
because we were We went to Miami and uh, they
wouldn't let us on that show for some reason. I
don't know why. I'm still a little hurt about it.
And uh, but and so we had to go play
a skating rink when nobody came because they were all
at the Lutheran to Bar show. So that show got canceled,
and so we thought, okay, what we're gonna do. So

(01:12:15):
we took our tour bus and parked outside of the
the arena and we had d stand out front because
d was our official lead singer, light skinned dude, and
and so he would he could pull the girls in.
And so we stood there and uh kept the door open,
and then girls would come by and coming that the

(01:12:36):
bars and now it's not the bars that did. We
were supposed to be on show, but we could didn't
make it here on time. So um, they come and
they said, well, you know, we have a little after
party over at the hotel. You guys won't come to
the hotel and stuff and stay fine. So a few
girls got on, and there was one particular girl that
got on. It was like very sweet girl. And I said, wow,
she's she's a nice girl. And so we got to

(01:12:59):
the tell. Um. I don't know how this happened, but Daryl,
for some reason, Darrell had already met somebody in and
I was rooming with him, and he said, so I'm
gonna need the room for a little bit, and uh,
so I couldn't go to my room. So I was
sitting in the lob before a while and different girls
who come by and they go upstairs and stuff. And

(01:13:20):
then this one girl comes in and I sit with
her and I'm sitting there. She comes in. We sit
down and start talking and um, talking about life and
and um she lives in Miami and who been really
nice talking And then all of a sudden d comes downstairs.
He said, oh, there you are. I was looking for you.
Didn't know you, he was gonna so he grabs her. So,

(01:13:47):
so he's going upstairs with her. I'm sitting there by myself.
So about ten minutes later, she comes running downstairs. She
comes running downstairs, and she goes and she's going, oh
my god, oh my god. And uh. And I said
what he said? I got in there, and he's like,

(01:14:08):
you know, he's all over me and this and none.
And I said, well, what do you expect. You don't
know him. You should go go to his room that easily.
She said, well, I thought he was a nicy. He
thought he's gonna be at least nice like you. I said, well,
I said so. So we're sitting there and then finally
Darrel comes downstairs and he leaves the room. And I said,
you know, I've been sitting down here forever, so I'm

(01:14:29):
really kind of tired. I'm gonna go ahead and go
to my room. She says, well, but I'm stick here
by myself. I said sorry. She says, what do you
mind if I come to you? So I said, okay,
you can come up. So we go up. We sit
and we talked about all my children and uh and uh,
and then she says, you know says you're in. If

(01:14:51):
you're here in town tomorrow, we can I can show
you around. I said sure. And then finally she gets
a knock on the do it from her her friend
that was there and another exactly, and she says, I'm
ready to go. So okay, So I decided I'm gonna
walk her downstairs. As I'm walking her downstairs, then d
steps out and he says, what is this. This ain't right,

(01:15:14):
This ain't right in some of the other choice words,
and uh and says this Jacoby stuff gotta stop. And
uh so Jacoby exactly. Now, I'll explain Jacoby. Now, Jacoby
was a character on All My Children. I love it

(01:15:37):
a lot. We need a baby faces that this episode
we never get the night. So Jacoby was It got
named Steve Jacoby who actually broke up Cliff and Nina
and Cliff and and and Cliff and Nina they would
never get broke up, but Jacoby actuertained between. And so

(01:16:00):
the word was if some if you was with the girl,
and then you have to be worried about getting Jakobe
because one of the guys might take your girl in
a second. And it was it was rampant it was rampant,
and so people were kind of scared. You know, you
kind of like you have to hide your girls because
you didn't want somebody to come in and take your girl. Exactly.
That's funny. We were saying, New Jersey, drive to Kobe.

(01:16:22):
So New Jersey. So he's out there, he's out there.
He goes, Oh, this this stuff gotta stop. This is wrong.
That's wrong, you know, And we need a meeting tomorrow.
We need to have a meeting. So the next day
we had a bad meeting, and uh, we had about
to Kobe and so so it came up. So it
came up, Yeah, this gotta stuff that sold j Kobe.

(01:16:43):
Stuff is like it's it's it's getting out of hands,
getting out of hand. And so uh and I stopped
and I said, wait a minute, I didn't. I didn't, Jakobe.
You first of all, um, this girl, this girl is
sweet and and she's a rony and and and you know,

(01:17:04):
this is the kind of girl if you treat it right,
you know, right, I mean the truth about a little
girl and bag. And then bang it hit me right there.
And I went upstairs right after that meeting on my
prophet uh team and wrote, ron dude, that was amazing.

(01:17:34):
Gods years later that ended up being with the word
ronan was an old word at that point, but how
about James Ingram made it up? So it was an
old word at that particular point. But then you know
it was used again and uh um, because I said
if if if a word just sounds good, feels good,

(01:17:57):
you can use it again and again and as a man,
the fact that I used it again and can we
talk and Tevin Campbell said no, that were was old.
Watch just like so you can use them again. I see.
So the I guess the phenomenon that was don't be

(01:18:20):
cruel Um. I mean, no one, no one saw that
coming never. Uh how did that change? Like what do
you feel your moment was? Like, w we arrived? Like
was it with that record? Was it? I think I
think it was a lot with that record. It was

(01:18:41):
it was a lot with Bobby to watch it happened
for Bobby because see Bobby was an underdog at that
particular point, and so we were I think in North Carolina,
we were at the show in North Carolina. They did
that tour where it was Bobby and um addition, and
I'll be sure Bobby opened the show in six months

(01:19:01):
maybe less, Bobby was closing the show. So I was
there and we were there this show where Bobby had
already been on and no one was there. And then
we walked in on the side of the stage while
I'll be Sure it was on the stage, and Bobby
walks out and this whole side starts losing it and
I'll be Sure thinks since thinking of him, But it

(01:19:24):
was Bobby Brown just standing off to the side. So
Chris Rock has a story where he was with I'll
be Sure the first moment that I'll be Sure heard
that Don't Be Cruel album. Yeah, like literally there in
the back of the tour bus, and Chris Rock is like,
I literally seen I'll be Sure watch his career go away.

(01:19:48):
By the time Side two came on, he was like deflated,
like this whole body language. Well, look, it was a lot,
it was a lot of the material, but it was
really the the thing about Bobby Brown. He was and
still to this day, I don't think I've seen a
performer like Bobby Brown like he was in the earliest prime.

(01:20:12):
He's like a like a fighter, like like Muhammad Ali
and his prime. There still I haven't seen any artists
have that thing that he had about himself, UM swag.
It was. Yeah, it's amazing because we're not We're not
talking about the best singer in the world, you know, um,
but we're talking about an entertainer and who owned it

(01:20:34):
and uh and that was so we got more than
we bargained for it, you know, out of it. We
I think we helped him finding himself in that in
that way. Did you watch that New Addition special? Seeing
a lot of truth in some of the Yeah, I
did the music. Was about to say, your executive, what
does that unentail? Like? Well, we do and jam and

(01:20:56):
Lewis have a meetings about stuff they handled, like the
stuff most of the stuff they did, and I did
all the all the other things I did the earlier
UM New Edition stuff to you know, the UM with
the kids stuff and then all the Bobby Brown and
Johnny stuff as well. Um. Briefly, I want you to
uh talk about the boys because whenever they were on

(01:21:19):
television like our Sening or whatever show, I always felt
that they were like way more. They were definitely intelligent
beyond the kids group, the Sons of Light, what they
what they were that's what they were. Yeah. Really they're
like in Africa, I believe somewhere and like they're they've
been there for like last fifteen years. I did not

(01:21:41):
know that Kyrie, the oldest one, he ended up producing.
I want to say he did some stuff on like
the solo album The Gem. I mean, we can ask
them about, but he did some co production on there.
I can you did some actually belout to No, I
can not on that, but he just did a lot
of production work. Because I was gonna say, what happened
of those guys because if you don't know, now you know,

(01:22:06):
yeah we can. I guess we could just start cherry
picking our favorites because there's so many ask about the boys. Okay,
what was it? I mean, was it just like here's
your song get out or I'm just saying at this
point of turning into a machine. But they were at

(01:22:28):
the very beginning. So when when when we got the deal,
when we started working with him, because that was through
it was through Motown and it was kind of a
favor to shaff Dickerson, you know, since I got this kids,
this kid group, and you know they could sing okay, uh,
they needed um. They wasn't you know, they weren't the

(01:22:48):
Jackson five when nobody everybody's always looking for Michael when
there wasn't really a Michael there. But they had those
kid voices that like, you know, um, just required just
are the right kind of thing. And and I always
wanted to work with like new addition and wanted to
write new edition records. So that was my chance to
kind of like do a new new addition to kind

(01:23:09):
of songs and and uh and so you know the
whole down in my heart and exactly there was and um,
it was fun too. It was it was fun to
do it, and we didn't The funny thing is that
we don't. I don't think we were ever thinking as
we were doing these things that everything was going to
turn to a massive hit. Uh. There was on a

(01:23:31):
point I think maybe we would have had a different
attitude with things, but we were always kind of like
so happy that things worked and felt blessed that it
wasn't really anything where we were popping up, you know,
chest out about anything because we were all like, really, whoa,
that's nice and then we were working on the next thing.
So we never stopped to time to be like not

(01:23:52):
to Okay, what was the division of labor between you
and l A in the studio? Who did what? I
was mostly the writer and Um. Sometimes I might do
a drum track and I might start to create, but
usually I would I would kind of get things started,
and then I might come up and and do the
drums on it. Then I would have a lot of

(01:24:13):
the song kind of figured out in terms of the
writing of it, than him and Darrel would come and
help me finish it up. And in terms of like
recording the vocals and the vocal production would have that
would be that could be either one of us. Um
and Darrel helped a lot in terms of vocal production
as well. How much patience do you have to have? Now? Okay,
let's take all right. You guys didn't knocked out right,

(01:24:35):
you would have these paul I do as an example. No, no, no,
I'm just saying I'm trying to get a hard example.
So pre pro tools, how hard was it to coach
her through that? I mean today, I'm certain that you
could have knocked that song out vocally in in two
hours with today's technology and whatnot. But it was work

(01:24:55):
and Um and more than anything was working trying to
keep give her confidence that she could do it. She
she didn't have a lot of confidence in it. And
and l A really have to give it to l A.
He's kind of really stayed with her and worked on
it too to get it where it got to. But
she was she wasn't a confident, you know, artist to

(01:25:17):
begin with them. Okay, So the recording habits of some
of your clients, your clientele, like, is it like the
lights have to be totally off for the room has
to be totally clear. For for Paula's nobody. You can't
even look at me, you know, you know, and and
that's understandable and something. And there are some people like
that are great singers like turn the lights out. I

(01:25:38):
don't want to see you. I don't want you to
see me it you know, it doesn't You kind of
gotta get in your own space. However, however, you get
it done. Who's a breeze? Like you can knock that
on the two sides, like who's your one? Take Charlie
probably one of the best people that have ever worked
with it is like that. I was just blown away

(01:26:00):
about how good they were and how in tune and
tune they were Selene Dion, She's like, uh, wait a minute,
is that is that just her thinking it? Really? Because
she was like so on it and uh um and
there's and and oh Brandy, Brandy is ridiculous. She's my

(01:26:23):
favorite of all She's one of my She's just one
of my favorite voices of all time. Uh. And then
the way that she can move her voice and she's
got so much heart with it. I think that she's
one of the most underrated singers period. Salange would agree.
So who who was challenging to record? It's far and like,

(01:26:49):
what do you look forward to in a good vocal take?
Like I hate in the world of production, Like I
hate the process of vocals, Like it's like after the
music has done, then I don't have the patience to
babysit and sit there. And as you as time goes by,

(01:27:10):
it does get more difficult to work with people that
cannot sing as well and you have to put more
work into it. Um. But you have people that are
great singers that hate to be in the studio. Johnny
Gail haste to be in the studio. Yeah, he so
wants to get in and out of there. Um. She said,
Like my mind took like five seconds to completely let

(01:27:31):
me get out of what I gotta do. You know
he really wants to He doesn't like recording. Um and
and that's that's you know, Whitney didn't always love recording.
She was like, you know what I gotta do? What face,
what we're gonna do. Let's let's get this down, let's
got a half hour, let's let's piget this out. Um so.

(01:27:52):
And so that's what you try to do. You try
to prepare it so that you know exactly what you
need and what you need to get, and you go
go for it. How long do you feel you need
with an artist to hit bulls eye? I don't even
know if your goal is to hit bulls eye? Like,
I'm sure, at what point are you making these songs

(01:28:18):
where you are now officially the machine, Like it's not like, okay,
well maybe we'll get baby Face to ritis a song.
It's like when we're getting baby Face, we expect least
a top five hit. We expect. So it's almost like
you gotta get a good performance out the artist, But
then you got to satisfy the manager. And I'm sure
the you know, I'm sure Clive or whoever the label

(01:28:40):
president is like, what is this, um, and what's that
pressure like on you? I always try to just make
sure it feels good to me and and but I
am also the kind of artist that I'll go back

(01:29:00):
in again and again to do something, and people aren't
happy with something that I'll fight to get it, get
it to where they're happy for I don't I don't
really have an ego as it relates to that. UM
and I always tell everyone that when they walk in
a room, UM, if they like something, that they don't
like something, let's let me know you you can be
totally honest. Most of the time they're not. What's an example,

(01:29:24):
what's the example of a song that you recorded that
the client didn't like that you have to go back
and spruce up a little bit and then it came
out Okay, it's not bad or I don't know that.
I it's hard to do so many different things. I'm
not sure because different things. We might work on it
a lot, but um, we probably we probably worked on

(01:29:45):
XL a little bit. You know. Uh, this is actually
the piano that played all that um uh, that whole
Excel album. I did it over record, planting it was
such a good piano that I I stole it. Name
was great feeling games he played okay, Um, But so
I think that the whole idea of if someone if

(01:30:10):
someone's not happy with it, then then I'm it's it's
fine for me to go back and do it again.
I think that Um. Probably the person I fought with,
I fought with more than anyone. It's Tony Braxton. We
fight really Oh yeah, yeah, I mean a place where

(01:30:32):
you're comfortable. Yes, she can she I can fight with
her and she'll she'll give in to me. She won't
give in to most people, so she will give in
to me. But but she's a fighter, has she been
one from the beginning. Though. In the beginning I was
able to just kind of like, this is what we're
gonna do, and and she was like, Okay, I'm gonna
do it. And that's why she keep making me high.

(01:30:54):
I'm trying to guess the song that like they were
all like number one, but your voice. No, No, we
did that together because it was Bryce brought in. Tony
brought the track to me. She said said, this is
a song that we cannot figure out what to do,

(01:31:14):
what to do with it, and so I took it
upstairs and were the record plant. I took upstairs, I said, all,
this is easy, and and went up and I just
heard it and wrote it out right there, and then
came downstairs, and then we went down and started recording,
and then I started adding other guitars and stuff on
it as well. So one thing I was always curious
about in your working relationship with Tony. To me, she

(01:31:36):
always sounded like the female version of you, like if
you had a sister that's saying like, y'all, y'all kind
of mirrod each other in that way. How much of
that is her? And how much of it is the
stuff that you were right for her because of a
little ranger. Yeah, just yeah, just the voice. And I
mean she just sounded like, yeah, it could be him,

(01:31:59):
you know what I mean? So how much of that
is her versus you? Um? I think, I mean, we
obviously helped guide her to finding that voice. Uh, when
we did the Boomerang project. Um, that's where Tony was
kind of discovered. She discovered by doing songs that weren't her.
Songs like God Loves Should Have Brought You Home was

(01:32:21):
written for Anita Baker. Yikes. Yeah, they at movie to
talk about that, and she didn't. Um Anita didn't want
to do it. And so when when Tony sing it,
she you know, I told Tony to sing it like
she had water in her mouth? Has she seen that

(01:32:44):
scene before she sang that song? Did she see that
sing before she saw sang the song? That sounds she
didn't see that. I saw the scene, that's what. Yeah.
I saw that scene as oh my god, should have
brought your ass home. That was almost like a gift
to your Yeah. Right after sing that scene and went
over the l A souse and wrote that song with
the boson we went because it was perfect, perfect words

(01:33:06):
um and then um um you mean the World to
Me was another one that was written for and maybe
I get this one on and need it. Oh my god,
now I see it. I can see it. So Tony's
whole first record was uh Anita Bigger Demo and actually
another set love song was written initially for TLC. Okay,

(01:33:31):
I can see that, Yeah, I can see that. I
can totally. Chili. Yeah, Chili was mad. I would have
been if I was heard. Yeah, but I'm glad as
a consumer, not mad. Did they not want the song
or I'm good for taking a song and putting it
on somebody else. The song comes first, comes first. What

(01:33:58):
what do you not regret? But what other notable trade
offs were there? Well, there was one song that almost
didn't happen because it was voted to be off the
record and it became one of their biggest songs. Um
and they had actually everywhere recorded it and they said, uh.

(01:34:20):
And then I got a call from they hit of
the record company saying, look, they had a meeting and
I'm sorry, but I'm gonna try to find for us
if I can change. But the song got voted off.
So what was the song? The song was I'll Make
Love to You. No, they didn't like it. They felt

(01:34:47):
they felt like it was felt like it was too
similar to like end of the road. They didn't want
to go down the same road. That's what now, that's
what Gerald Buzzby told me. What and then he then
he called me and said, well, I made an executive
call and I kept it on there. Thank God for
that executive right. But is it still I wonder in

(01:35:08):
their minds, is it's still regrets like they got them paychecks? Uh? No, no,
you know, I mean they were once but yeah, but
that is that is the thing. What started happening was
is that artists start to see that wait a minute,
money is in the right. So everybody wanted to be

(01:35:30):
a part of that instead and um, so they wanted
to write with you. They want to just write period.
They wanted to make sure that it might what probably happened.
It was one of their songs that one, and you know,
something had to something had to go. And so I
get how you can how they can get to that point,
but it's hard to call what what were your feelings

(01:35:54):
of into the route as far as the domination and
and breaking Elvis's records and how god the week week
like at this point, I was like religiously reading Billboard
just so to see all these like these uh like
these fundans like speak of two more weeks. Um, Like,

(01:36:26):
are you numb by this point or do you get
excited like thet call you like like that's probably my
problem is I never really get that excited about things
in general. Yeah, and so so so I can only

(01:36:47):
remember screaming. One time was when I got a check
for UM for a song and my business manager called me,
tell me that you gotta check FOO for uh, this
one song you got checked for thirty five thousand. I said,
what what you did? You say? I had never had

(01:37:08):
got that money. And I was like, I said, oh
my god, first, I'm gonna start doing this all the
time now. And uh. But but other than that, the
funny thing is that is when those things would happen,
like into the road, and I would be very I'd
be very happy that it happened, but I also would

(01:37:29):
be ready to move on to the next thing. And
and me and l A talked about this all the
time now. We talked about we talked about how we've
had the successes in our lives and um, and we
missed out on them because we constantly kept working and
didn't ever stop to smell the roses, you know, And
it was just always just kind of like move into

(01:37:50):
the next thing. And so so when I walked down
the hallway and and and see and look at the work,
a lot of the things kind of forget that you
were even part of you just because you just because
you're just you're in workshone and and there's and being
respectful in terms of the artists that you work and

(01:38:10):
stuff like, there's so many artis have come in my life,
or I wouldn't ask for pictures, you know, say let's
stop and do a picture. And I just feel like
just in the work zone. Now, I wish why didn't
I stop in Roses? Why didn't I stop and appreciate
this moment? I'm here, I'm I'm standing with Whitney Houston.
You know she's in here in my studio. Didn't take
a phone? Why didn't I capture that moment? Because because

(01:38:34):
that wasn't the kind of person that I was was
trying to, you know, capture it for. I wasn't. I
was into the work zone work of it, I guess.
Speaking of which, uh, can you talk about the I'm
Your Baby Tonight project and where it was? I mean,
were you and and l A pulled in too? I mean,

(01:38:54):
because by that point it was, you know, Whitney Houston
was the largest thing in life, but to the point
where it was turning against her, like it was we
were was now getting booed to the Soul Trained Awards.
We were there at the that Soul Trained Awards. We
witnessed that, and so we we understood we were brought

(01:39:18):
into black and n eyes her right. Um, it was
amazing when she got booed. I understood why she got
booed at the time, um, and which was really you
know when when she would say think she was thank you,
she it didn't Black people, you know, you better be thankful,

(01:39:41):
and she didn't seem thankful. It happened. It had happened
so much that she was gonna thank you and then
walk home. Wait a minute, is that why she got booed?
Was a performance? Because I can't remember, Well, she wasn't
there the year that they really let the booze out. No,
there was like, no, she was actually in the audience.
She was in the audience and she got booed and

(01:40:03):
it blew her away. We were there, she was there,
Paves was there. We were there, and it was there. Yes,
and it was kind of like, oh, this is kind
of so and and and because they were kind of
they were kind of done done with her at that time.
It was too much. It was like at that point

(01:40:24):
she had done everything. It was too much. And that
was the kind of after we had we had already
got it met her and she was that she came
down to Atlanta to um, listen to the listen to
the songs that we have for and played her a
couple of records. UM played her I'm Your Baby to
Night and played her a song called Miracle, and at

(01:40:46):
that time she said, uh, I love I'm Your Baby
to Night and Miracle. She said, I'm not feeling that one.
Uh I can't relate to that. I want to ask
so in if you're trying to Black and Eyes Whitney Houston,
especially coming off the heels of like my of Don't

(01:41:07):
Be Cruel album and where new Jack Swing was at
the time, like a shuffle song. Yeah, it's so unusual.
Like I mean, besides the way you make me feel,
I don't I'm your Baby Tonight like the last Black

(01:41:28):
Shuffle song that's the shuffle song. It's like more of
a jazzy dude that things like it's condition Randy Newman
like you made me feel think of like rounds doing
it death Monkey, good Time, like some of that you

(01:41:51):
two step two with the barbecue, like I'm thinking in
like yo, like because most cats are like straight up
using break B and guest verse from this person that person,
you know, like like yo, I'm I'm I'm hip hop,
you know, but y'all went to the two steps barbecue

(01:42:11):
like was that. Was there any resistance from Clive at
the time or was it just like because even then,
like besides the way you made me feel like there
was no shelf, there was no song like I'm Your
Baby Tonight that you could even blend with, Like I mean,
there was like a house mixed to it. But it's

(01:42:32):
still like it's just stood out like a sore thumb.
That's such a risk. Like what made you guys think
like this is our lead single? It was never about
trying to follow anybody. Um, And it was never about
trying to lead either. It was about the song and

(01:42:53):
that just that just happened to be a really good feeling.
And and so as we started writing it, I don't
it was it just it just turned into that. And
then I started writing on top of it, and and
that's what it turned into. And Whitney just happened to
be the perfect person to deliver it. That songs hard
than been a hit by anybody else, So certain songs there,

(01:43:19):
you know, it was faded that it was Whitney. Houston
was waiting for her that um, you know, I was
born to to write that song, and Whitney was born
to sing that song. And and and it made the difference.
We we did that last part. We had to come
up with the you know, some ad libs and uh

(01:43:39):
and that whole ending and so we need something and
face face right something right right, something because I gotta
go and I don't know if she wanted to go
somewhere to eat, and I'm there. I got so right
something quick. So then that then I came up with
that whole Uh looks like I'm paid on, I'm on
the table and there hold the cause. And then and
so that's why she was saying, let's get this over.

(01:43:59):
They looked out on fados are we ready? And uh,
but it is you know, I rarely go back and
listen to things that I've done. Um, but sometimes when
I go back, sometimes when I do. And I listened
to Whitney singing that song. Is so amazing that the

(01:44:22):
voice that she had and the way that she sung
this song, it's like, um, it's I can only listen
so much because it makes me miss her. Um But UM,
I'm just so amazed that I feel so blessed that
I was able to be a part of that, you know,
and and and part of that journey and part of
her journey that she was that it made a difference.

(01:44:46):
It was it was nowhere as big of a record
as the records that she had done before. She maybe
get soil six or seven million on that one. Were
they more believed that that happened or where normalized her?
I mean, yeah, it's it's sold well, but it was
what it was. It was something that kind of normalized
her and and and made her like, Okay, she's still

(01:45:08):
she's still with us. It's the song the sisters could
sing in the car when she's still with us and
she's not so pop Because what they it was a
good question. Now, they didn't want us to They didn't
want to want us to make her uh petty, right,
you know. They just wanted her to be a little

(01:45:29):
bit more accessible. And and I think and we fortunately,
you know, we're able to do that. We went to
Clive when we first met Clive, we went and asked
if we could do Whitney and uh he said, nah, yeah,
you guys already have songs ready for We didn't have

(01:45:51):
songs ready, but we would. I would have written in
a second, which she is. So now I tell you
what we can, We'll let you do Jennifer Holiday, you
could do her verse And at the time he was like,
na and uh and so with which today I do
Jennifer Holiday in a second. Um, because Prince said something

(01:46:14):
to me, Um, I went up there too as a
Jimmy and Terry studio and then I talked to Prince
for a minute and he said, you know, we are
so blessed that we actually can get in the studio
that Chaka Khan called me and asked me, Princess Chuck
a Coon asked me if I would do a record
on her, and you know, how much would it cost?

(01:46:36):
And I was like, what are you talking about? I
should pay you, you know, to be able to go
in the studio with you and work with you. And
so when you have these artists that we you know,
that are amazing artists, it's it's just a much a
privilege for us as writers and producers to be able
to work with those legendary artists. I ain't saying with

(01:46:56):
doing it for free, but okay, all right, check please
let's go and do it. For part one of our
interview with baby Face, tune in next week for more
on q L s Parce. Love Supreme is a production

(01:47:17):
of I heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by
the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.

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