QLS Classic: Common

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora
This Sugar Steve. On this week's Quels, classic hip hop artist,
actor and poet Common talks about how being an NBA
ball boy brought him courtside for Michael Jordan's rookie season,

(00:21):
his musical influences, and personal memories of his time with
Jay Dillon. Recording in front of a live audience on
February one, two thousand and eight, Here we go, roll call, Suprema, Supremo,

(00:42):
role call, Suprema. Way time out time. Let y'all know,
we never tell the guests what they're getting into, so
those that are familiar, I always wonder why the guests
always messed up during the theme. What we literally don't
tell them. We just pointed them and watch the We
have fun at their expense, all right over time from
the top two three Septrema Prema, roll call, Suma, sub Frema,

(01:11):
roll call Suprema, sub Frema, roll call sub Frema, so fremo,
roll call red come from the shot. Yeah, making loot
in large amounts, Yeah, crocheting vegan free. Yeah, you still
can't count rock cam roll call Suma, prima rod called.

(01:36):
My name means sugar. My name ain't Bill. It's not
like eah, my name is young girl Frema roguma, surema,
roll call was not nervous? Ye have stage right. You

(01:57):
want to make sure this roll call, yeah, comes out
just right? So prima roll call, Prima Suma roll call.
It's like, yeah, yeah, here a testify been made for
the common Yeah and all his lives call suprima roll call,

(02:24):
srima roll call famous comment. Yeah, I'm for the people. Yeah,
my boys from Philly roof, for the Eagles, for Supremo rolla, Surema,
roll call frima something So prima roll call some Prima

(02:48):
something something, Supremo role All right, thank you, Thank you,
ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Uh, welcome to our
very first live recording of Quest Love Supreme. I am
Quest Love. UH. To the left of me is show
producer uh and god boss Bill. I will try. My

(03:14):
goal for this is not to make him angry with
my rambling. Uh. And to his right Uh, it's it's
like ea as yeah, it's like you're not broadcasting on
Instagram that uh. To the left of uh, to the

(03:36):
left of Layah is Uh sugar Steve are a long
time engineer. Uh for please clap Steve. This Uh the
hardest work kind of the connecting force between uh common Ross,
say Ross, so you know I'm talking about um for

(03:58):
he was uh part of the engineering crew of like
Warderford Chocolate and Electric Circus and Voodoo and all the
Roots albums we call a young Gil. Yeah, and Uh,
I'll say that we're recording right now in front of
a live audience at the Grammacy Theater in Manhattan. Uh

(04:19):
kind of a part of a series of events hosted
by uh the legendary Roots. I'm saying, the Roots crew,
like I don't know those guys celebrating the return of
the Grammys in New York City. And um, yes, so
I'll say that our our guest today UM can be described.

(04:41):
I guess he's all things to all people. Uh. As
an actor, Uh, he's appeared in over account of thirty Man,
you You've been your residuals must be nice man, and
over thirty TV film and stage productions from TV comedies
as uh Scrubs, The Simpsons, The Mindy Project, UH to

(05:02):
the MC drama Helen Wills uh to acting alongside heavyweights
like Denzel Washington and American Gangster Ryan Reynolds and Smoking Aces,
Morgan Freeman, Angelina Jolie and Won It for Us, Whittaker
and Street Kings, Tina Fay and Date Night. UH. Not
to mention he's been in Selma Suicide Squad, John Wick
two to let Me Give to My Day, Yes, even

(05:30):
his UH Oscar winning performance in the BT classic Brooklyn Babylon.
He's also UH an actors actress. He's a damn man.
He's an activist, UH community leader, a film and TV producer. UM,
but it's probably UH. I guess he's He's best loved

(05:54):
as a street poet in MC UM. He's a two
time Grammy winner, a Golden Globe and an Oscar winner,
currently nominated for UH two time Oscar nominee. I should
say uh. He has eleven studio albums, all arranging in
different styles. I mean he's worked with some of the
best in the business, from UH four producer no I

(06:17):
d who's currently up for a Producer of the Year UH,
to Alicia Keys to Lauren Hill that they sold the
cute tip the most Deaf to ice que to Kanye
West to throw yes, Yes, Yes, to the Roots, to
the great Jay Diller, to Kanye West, to Stevie Wonder.
We don't have that much time. Come on, like he

(06:39):
anyways shows overthinking every day. He's really trying to make
a big some day. Welcome newcomer, comments to quest Love,
Superior Lass, thanks youall, Thank you all for having me.
I'm excited. I'm gonna put my headphones on so I
can hear you. So you said you're excited. Yeah, man,

(07:02):
I mean it's feels good like I mean, it's for me.
It's like we're having a mirror and you. It's an
exciting thing. Probably ever feel well in my top, in
my top three hundred and sixty three, seriously feel its
great to be coming out here. Thank yeah, Like it's people.
I know, it's great to see us. Yeah, I forgot

(07:23):
to warn you that this is going to be live
in front of the audience as well. He did. Just
called him like, hey, you want to be on the show,
just stop by already already got the warning, like like
you don't do no, got you yet? He do? Got
you good? I know, I get you good. No, I
mean we're gonna warm up first time. But actually, you
know what, it's as long as I've known you. I mean,

(07:44):
I've known you for like twenty years, but I don't
know much about uh, your childhood or just your the beginning.
You're you're you're pre mc years. I assume that you
were born in Chicago, correct, Yeah, but born in Chicago,
um foor part I was born and raised on the
South side of Chicago, um the hospital, Cook County Hospital

(08:07):
to be specific. And the funny thing, my father always,
my father, my father and my mother always argued over
if it was raining or snow and when I was born.
And that's I put that in a run in one
of my new raps now because it was always a
significant thing. My father used to stick with that note,
even though when they weren't together. He was like, it
was snowing when you was born, and my mother always

(08:28):
say it was raining, but who knows? All right, So
can you explained to me? I mean, because now, especially
in the political climate that we're in, this whole like
hashtag what about Chicago? What about Chicago? I mean, explain,
explain to me what the South side of Chicago was

(08:50):
like growing up in the seventies and the eighties and
the night because my thoughts of it are just like, okay,
well there's good times. I know that they've had the
largest amount of of housing projects and then yeah, in
the United States were karbed in green and but just
I mean explained to like do you have fond memories
or warm, fuzzy memories. They always make it seem like

(09:12):
it's like Beyroot circular night, Like don't you ever go
to like that sort of thing? Yeah, I mean, well,
Chicago is a very segregated city. Let me start there,
and it was actually founded by a black man, a
Haitian brother by the name of John Baptisteusavo. Black culture
has been there strong, like all the the depth of

(09:34):
black culture meaning church, liquor stores, gang banging, um, black
excellence music. All that was so for me growing up,
it was like I was around affluent black I was
in the lower black middle class neighborhood, but I was
around affluent black people and also around you know dudes

(09:56):
that was gangbanging. That was part of the culture. But
it also was like a black love movement to like
we had the Black Peace Stones and the Black Panthers
also existed and they worked together at certain points. Um,
and then you know, we were at one point in
the mid eighties had our first black mayor. He was

(10:16):
our Barack Obama. His name was Harrod Washington, Mayor Harold Washington.
So it gave our city a lot of a lot
of pride to see a leader in fact um at
some point, I believe Barack Obama worked on some some
in some shape form of fashion on one of Harrod
Washington's campaigns. But it just really gave me a foundation
and a lot of black people growing up in Chicago.

(10:39):
Foundation and the identity like we knew who we we
knew who we were. And it was not all violence.
It's definitely was some violence there um and crazy enough
in the in the mid nineties, the violent the rates
of murder murders um were higher at that time than

(10:59):
they are now out But it's just like a big
highlight going on right now. And and it is really
tough right now because of the fact that you have
a lot of innocent and young and you know, people
just walking by stand is being killed, and it didn't
seem like that was the situation then. But no matter what,
we don't want any of the violence. But it's also

(11:19):
such a beautiful city. You've been there well growing up
close to a city that was also similarly infected across
the river in Philadelphia. It's Camden, New Jersey, and um,
because they had the Coca Cola bottling industry and also
Campbell soup factories. Everyone was employed and you know, it's

(11:42):
it was kind of like, uh, a working class society
over there. And then once those uh, those two companies
went elsewhere, and it was desolate and then there was
a rising crime. Like was there an an exodus or
what was the moment where they started to change? Well,
I think the moment was was Obviously the war on

(12:08):
drugs was part of it because that started taking men
out of the homes, Black men out of homes. And
then on another level, even to be honest, like the
when the higher up ranking gang members started getting removed
from that culture, then it was like the younger gang

(12:29):
guys was like didn't have an order. It's it's almost
like when you watch those mob movies. If somebody that
this that's in the top gets taken away, then yeah, yeah,
it's just it was part of that. That was part
of it. But on a bigger scale, it was the
it was the war on drugs and and also drugs
just being in our neighborhood. And then like when a

(12:52):
lot of opportunities got stripped away, and I don't know
what industry it was, but just jobs started getting stripped away,
so that that contributed with drugs was a big part
of it. Did you how did you avoid uh gang
binging culture? Like how did you avoid? Did or could you?

(13:12):
I mean, like going walking to school? Is it? Like? Well,
I mean it's it almost there's no way to avoid
it if you are I don't. It didn't It didn't
matter what. Like my mother is a teacher, my stepfather
is a plumber. I grew up like for me, that
was I had a decent home, like I had parents
that cared. I had an opportunity to go to After

(13:35):
the public schools went on strike, my mother was like,
we're getting you in the private school. She worked hard.
I got in the private school, so I had opportunities,
but I also didn't. I still had to rub up
against gang culture because on my block it's dudes. This
this part of either the black Stones or four corner hustlers.
That's when neighbored. I grew up around vice lords, so
it was no way I was avoiding it. My way

(13:57):
was to be involved but not go too crazy and
and and that's just honestly what I did. I was
like a part of it, but I was like, I'm
not going over here to be to to start shooting.
I'm gonna go over here to just like make it through.
And y'all know I'm down, but I ain't. You ain't
gonna see me chill, little smoke, a little drink, a
little right, and no fight, a little about to say,

(14:21):
what kind of in school, I'm wondering what but but
but my point is it was I had a What
what kept me out of it, to be honest, was
that I had some type of vision for myself or
a dream for myself. And honestly, that did start with
like first it was basketball. Then it came into hip hop.
And I know it sounds so traditional black like, but

(14:41):
but but then it was just more or less just
being like, Okay, I see Muhammad Ali, I see Michael Jackson,
I see these people that are thriving that I look
as he wrote, look up to as he rose. I
want to be something. So I never decided to go
like I knew dudes that was like there was the
those guys that was shoot us but did they look

(15:02):
at you like that to today look at you like, uh, dude,
look like he got a little potentially win on. I
wasn't that now. I wasn't like I was a superstar
basketball player. Nobody like where They're like, we're gonna leave
him alone. It just is like they they saw I
wouldn't go go all the way over there. And then
some of them dudes was just doing that stuff that man,
they ain't have no no parents in the house. And

(15:24):
it's like and I had, yeah too, and my mother
is a strong figure in my life. You know. So
you were a ball boy doing the classic Jordan era
of the Bulls. Correct. Yeah, I was saying, like what
what year? Like, okay, so I was the ball boy
from like eight four to eighty six. So I remember

(15:45):
Michael Jordan's first exhibition game. I remember specifically he had
a red radio playing Houdini and and Rod Thorn, the
general manager, was like, no, you can't play it. And
after that first exhibition game he could play whatever he wanted. Basically,
did you did you know then that? All right? You know,

(16:07):
like we knew Diller, and we knew Diller was goudh
was c Michael Jordan's that level. Did you already know
that this guy is like on another level that? Yeah,
it was. It was that that rookie year that I
really because it was something electrifying about him. And we
had never seen anybody hanging into every enough respect to

(16:27):
Dr J, but we had we hadn't seen We hadn't
seen anybody hanging away in the air the way Mike did.
The flare he brought. He brought a uh energy and
a flare in the aura that we hadn't seen in
the NBA. And then they knew how to market it too,
like I could. I can remember watching his local commercials
for Chevallet and different things that he did, and I
was like, he was just became immediately one of our

(16:49):
greatest um heroes and and people we looked up to
and in in Chicago. But then it started translating across
the NBA, so we knew well after that first season
we knew. And it was like when he came out
and started wearing his own Air Jordan gear, we were like, damn,
this is incredible. Or Chicago, we we just embraced it,
like this is our guy. You gotta think we had

(17:11):
Oprah around. That's starting to come at that time too,
So Steve Kerr, that's my dude, you did you have
one of them corny moments with him as a ball boy?
I just ever giving like a pair of sneakers from
the first year. Oh man, I had I gotta. I
got a pair of his shoes and I actually ended

(17:33):
up giving them to my father. No, okay, well yeah, yeah,
I heard him and I was trying to walk it
back with the words you know already came out like
my dad, my dad, the one who got me the
jobs or whatever. But my dad used to wear them
to my shows, and I'd be like, what are you
doing when Michael Jordan's actual special actually sneakers off the feet?

(17:59):
What year? What year this was? It was the first one,
the first one, and we used yea, the first Joan's
I mean, I had him off his feet, he signed
them and everything. But in all truth, I used to
get all the types of nothing as great as Mike's.
But I used to get magics Isaiah because I worked
to visiting team's locker room, so I would get magic Isaiah's.
I would you know, remember those weapons. Yes, I used

(18:23):
to get those, but you know what I would do
I would my teachers would. I would when I was
get in trouble, I would either trade and seek us.
But oh I used to sell them. Honestly, A crazy
story to happen with me. And when Michael was like
these kids was I mean they were my age and
maybe a little older. They was like, man, can you
get us Mike Michael Joan's autograph? Can you get us

(18:43):
autographs pre game? And I was like, yeah, I'll do it.
I'll do it. I need five dollars. And then so
I went to I gave, I gave yeah, I would. Um,
I got the you know paper, went down to Mike
and was like, man, you know, can you sign this
for me? Man? I want to take it up to
these kids. He's like, oh, Man, you sign it. You know.
He was just kind of in a jokey move. You

(19:04):
sign it, you could. So I signed it, took it
up to the kids and it's like yeah, man that
I got my five out, and there was like this
the worst part. They was like, wait, Michael was spelled wrong, Man,
Michael bad. It was back. Yeah, they had to get
their money back. I wasn't the best hustler, but I

(19:28):
was in decail e a l. E always used to
mess that up at prices. I made a mistakes when
when uh I had a T shirt made before uh
one of those Iron one T shirts had to get
on the boardwalk before I went to the Victory Tour

(19:50):
and the guy let me spell Michael Mike Hill. He said,
a E L. Yeah bad. I wasn't the only one
was the victory? Was the victory? Was the victory to it? No,
I wasn't your first concert because that was my first
concert I ever went to. Yeah, mine was trying and
then Victory Tour. Yeah, they got that question. Okay, mine
was Steve Kerr. I went to Steve Kerr concert. So

(20:13):
was your bad? What was your never saw my own concerts? No,
but what was it your first time? I will not
admit that. You gotta say it. You gotta say remember
that song Gangster Lean, this song that was my first concert, Steve?
What was your? That was Billy Joel at the Garden.
I think he's trying to be cool. I think yours

(20:33):
was weird out young con victors. I think you just
want to be cool on the record and be like,
oh yeah, that's all Billy Joe. When did uh, oh god,
this is such a cliche. So when did hip hop?
When did you fall in love with him? Yeah? Like

(20:54):
wait back, So what what was life? What was what
was buy things fall apart? I know what was hip
hops culture in Chicago growing up? I mean, well, who
were the local heroes? Who? Who did you see? It
was like I want to I wanna do that? Well,

(21:15):
I mean it was honestly just us loving just anything
that came out of New York, um, West Coast, Philly.
You know, we we were up on any We were
just seeking out hip hop because once by the time
you know, obviously Africabambada and and you know, um, Grandmaster
Flash and the Furious Five. That was early. But by

(21:38):
the time run DMC that it had us, Run d M,
C l L. Then Eric B and Rock Kim came.
But so we were we were like just soaking up everything.
We weren't. That's why even when I listened to some
of my first earlier some of the earlier music I made,
first albums, it was like I could hear a mixture
of the influence of care arrests to to ice you

(22:00):
in w a towo to rock him, you know, like
I could hear those influences because we were soaking it
all in and you know, um, so yeah, that's what.
That's what. Because Chicago had a real strong house music scene.
So the people that were the Chicago heroes as far
as hip hop goales was more like DJ's on the radio.
It wasn't really a lot of rap artists that was like,

(22:22):
y'all put Chicago on the map. In fact, our first
artist was Twister. They came out for Chicago. Yeah, I
mean it came out on record, like that was the first.
So when did you know you couldt okay? When did
you know you can put the paper? Well? I was
with my cousin. Um. I used to visit my cousin

(22:42):
in Cincinnati like every summer, and I don't have a
big family, so we that was like one of my
best friends and uh we we had these dudes that
was a little bit older than us. They was like
Cincinnati's run DMC. Their name was the bond Hill Crew,
so we used to that was the neighborhood my cousin
the state in bond Hill. So we were like they

(23:03):
were he wrote, So I was like, man, I said,
this is seventh grade. I remember sitting there were we
were up late night and I was like, man, let's
write some raps. But my cousin might have said let's
write some wraps. So I wrote my I wrote my rap,
he wrote his, and then the next day when we
started saying it, everybody was like responding to my rap,
and I was like, Yo, this is a great feeling.
Like I was like, this is incredible, and and then

(23:27):
uh like they knew my rapping. And then I started
writing for some of my friends and it was just like,
oh man, I could really really do this. And it
came from me loving I loved like James Baldwin and
Lanston Hughes and and then I loved hip hop. Hip
Hop was the thing that I'm not like, it's it's
gifted as this guy over here with with the music
and all like Heyclopedia right now, our man knows all

(23:50):
this music. So so anyway, I'm gonna kick some of
my first rap. Really, it's the first rap out the
box for some wait. I gotta beat, you know, wait
wait wait wait wait wait hang on, I ain't gonna

(24:11):
hang on hang on today. Uh well, let me tell
you about a trip A time was go. I was
going there to run a cold bloody show. When I
was there, I saw some people jamming. Two they called
themselves the bun Hill Crew, Doctor Ice, Romego and Master Eat.
All of the bun Hill Crew wrapped into with T

(24:34):
asked him, could day rock with me? That's all I remember? Yeah?
Now you what's your first your first him on man,
I remember my first verse? I don't. When I was
always the beating I was. I was the winnage table guy.

(24:54):
He killed it last night with Rocks and Shontato. You
was she? Yeah? It was probably the highlight and I
wasn't expecting it to be the highlight at all, but
it was. We did the Death Fresh Crew. Yeah, it's
to night to get up. Yeah it was. It was

(25:18):
dope anyway. Yet for those that are listening, Uh, the
roots have nightly jam sessions all throughout Grammy weekend. Last
night we had why Cleft John, we had Roxyan Shante,
we had Tatha g from him to me. She came
and did juicy Fruit. What it sounded? Yeah? It was
I coming tonight. Yeah, all right, so we might see

(25:39):
some aut screen action happen tonight. So were you I
can't hear you anyway, So did you? Were you always
common sense. No, what was your first Yeah, give me
the evolution of your names, because no one that's their
names now was ever their names, Like, what was your
first few names? One of my first names was the

(26:00):
Black Poet, Caden Caden, I don't know where that can.
And then I was just in a group called c DR,
which was just still for Corey Dion and Rashid Deon
is no Idea who we talked about earlier. So yeah,
he actually rhymed, but he was more producing, but he

(26:22):
was kind of doing the producer rhyme thing. Pete rockets. Yeah,
but so the they know, those are the only names.
Only Rashid and then the Black Poet came. And then
I had some other name but I can't remember. Man,
they were white. I came up with common sense. I
was going to school down in Florida and then and
they used to call weeds since over they may still

(26:44):
have it done. And one boy was sitting there smoking
some weed one time, and I was like, my mother
used to always say, boy, you better use common sense.
And I, for some reason, the too just connected and
I was like, man, I'm gonna use the name common sense,
and I just shouted it out my friends like, yeah,
that's that's decent. Always thought it was like a name
that was unique but still kind of every day. And

(27:06):
when the when the band actually sued me for for
my name, that's when I lost my hand. Man, you
know I was I was stressed out. You know, I
was gonna lose my hand anyway. But but but the
gist of it was, you can't be your name no more. Yeah,
you can't. You know you think you're like, man, I've
built up. This was after resurrection my second I'm like,

(27:28):
I'm just getting to be known as something. Somebody knows
who I am. And now y'all taking away the name
common Sense I was, you know, all the great skill
through it, Like Biggie Smalls couldn't been Biggie Smalls. We
couldn't have been square Roots. Yeah that's right. You couldn't
have been square because there was a band in Philly.
Uh that was threatening. I know you're glad you took off,

(27:50):
and I'm glad. Are you do you still miss Commons?
Well we still call you comm sense, yeah, but I
mean I don't miss common sense. I actually felt like
it was all divine order. You know, you want something
bad and then you look look back and be like, oh,
this worked out right, because you know, common kind of
represents the everyday person that I believe I am, and
I think people just that day come just because has

(28:19):
this perception that because you have a specific gig that
you're just disconnected from people like you don't have cousins
like you don't have the same friends like you don't
Just because you have that journey to another level doesn't
mean that the other people in your life are in
that position. Getting out of both regular people. I got people. Yeah,

(28:41):
we're coming folks. Look, I'm wearing sneakers by kids. I
don't want to say nothing, but I was wondering if
that was a fashion state. Man, I didn't that. I
was like, dude, I didn't have you have a deal
with that. I'm trolling Kanye. Um, so we're you know,
even though Adidas is our sponsor. Uh. You know, suddenly, uh,

(29:04):
when it's time for Okay, I just said I was
a man of the people, but then I'm about to
do some one about when to get my yeas. Suddenly
suddenly I feel like I feel like, well, no, it's
just my way of hustling. Uh. For some reason, there's
been a shutdown of me getting there's a rumor out

(29:27):
that I've been disrespecting his brand by dogging them, and
my my argument was, like, who told you to make
such a comfortable as sneaker? Of course I'm gonna work
because you do wear them to the Oh you post
up rocking fresh, Well, yeah, I've rocked a few pair
of Yeasies that I've rocked so much that they look
like broken down Converse sneakers, like sneakers be leaning to

(29:47):
the side, all that stuff and so much distagrain. And
you're sort of like, stop disrespecting my brand, Like, get
you some new Yeasies like I can now that's some
one percent ship. Spend another three thousand dollars on my
sneakers like that sort of thing. You can do? You
automatically get the new easies when they come out, calm
or did he let you know what is it? Well?
Sometimes I get them, sometimes I don't. Actually, you know,
crocheting easy And you're right, oh man, he doesn't need

(30:12):
to make me some special like water for chocolate editions.
So anyway, electric circus my protests, My protest to UH
to his blocking me from getting his easies was I
took all of my white easies and have them custom pain.
Holy sh you put on his ya Walmart level com Petty.

(30:44):
You know I have some money, so you love Petty? Yes? Anyway,
So in Florida eight and them like, I became aware
of you because of source on sign height. Uh okay
for those that were bour and after. Do we really
have to explain that, yes, because it's two thousand and
eighteen and some people might not know what the source was,

(31:07):
like he was born in Oh you do, born in six? Okay,
y'all know what the sources These grown folks, that's right,
But we're broadcasting million people. So anyway, Um, there's there's
a section in the former Bible of hip hop whatever

(31:28):
that is, uh called unsigned hype, and we just went
through that. Right, Well, I'll do it. See this is
what I'm talking about, don't anyway? So common That's how
I knew of you because you were in the unsigned
hype back in nine two. So did you work on
your demo at Florida A and M or I worked
on the demo before we got to found before I

(31:50):
got to Florida in them and then we sent that
demo out and we heard that we got selected for
I'm saying we because they always felt like it was collective.
It was me and no I d Twilight Tone. Even
a manager, Derek, you know how everything feels ter rhyming
no not rhyming. No, no, no, let's let's keep things.

(32:13):
I was like, what, yeah, but I mean, you know,
like most managers, he wanted to rhyme and do something creative,
but now he's he's stuck to the business. But when
we got selected for for that Unsigned Hype, that was
like a big moment for me. Like it was being
from Chicago and and also like being at a black college.

(32:33):
It's just everybody was like, whoa, you actually might be
able to do something with with this MC and thing.
Because my mother was like she ain't barely even knew
I rapped really like when I first got offered, Like
that's honestly how we got signed that because they were
Relativity Records was doing a album with the Unsigned Hype.
They had Biggie, they had Mob Deep, they had all

(32:55):
of us, all these because Biggie was Unsigned Hype, so
it was Mob Deep. They had all of was doing
an album and it never the project never went through,
so they ended up pulling me and saying, man, we're
gonna sign you to you know, we're thinking about signing you.
So we had a meeting and um man, that's how
I got signed from from that source unsigned hype. And
as you said, the source was the I mean every

(33:19):
time I made an album project at that time, were like,
please can I get five mics in the source? You
know we all wanted that, did you all? You all
got five mics for we got two four and a half.
But I think four and a half is better than
a five, you know what I'm saying. So be got
a four and a half right? Probably? So? Yeah? Yeah,

(33:39):
where is you were an unsigned hype longer than you
were at FAM? Is that? Yeah? I've heard one semester,
I've heard a month. I was there for a year
and a half. But I will say, no, you're not
gonna telling the story, are you. No? I got straight a's.
I got straight a's my second some that's at FAM.

(34:01):
So and I was majoring in business administration, like going
to professional development classes and all that. What story was
you talking about them? Man? Now? Well the remember the
Canada border story with the story now, okay, okay, okay, okay,

(34:22):
it's it's Okay, basically he was on tour with us. Well,
let me set up the preface. I'm just saying that
this was, this was, and probably it's. It's easier now
because I think now that we're of age, that a

(34:42):
lot of officers and people in authority are kind of
our age, so they recognize this now. But back then,
you know, to get into Canada, Like it's easier for
me to get into the Middle Eastern Divide than it
is to fly into Canada. Yeah, y'all had a few
situations the routes. I remember that. Yeah, we had a lot.
So the silliest one of all was they made to

(35:05):
you know, the beginning of the Simpsons when Bart has
it right on the board like I will not talk
in class, I will not like just to mess with
Rashid and took for small stuff like they had to
write a two page uh uh book report on on
the merits of of human responsibility and how they're you know,

(35:28):
And then I asked for I was like, what happened?
What's on your record? And you told me they okay,
So I mean, just to be really open and stuff.
It's all good. I left. So I was, you know,
at college and you know, I'm a Chicago kid. We
had a little bit of this slickness to us hustle
and stuff. And like I said, I was doing the

(35:49):
different things, but so so so m one of my
one of the guys we knew from Chicago, had a
roommate who they kind of looked at like so me
and my guys talked to him and say, yo, you
need to get his I D and and checks and
we're going to shopping. So we ended up you made

(36:12):
so sweet. This is the story we ended up. He
got the checks in the in the in the I D.
We ended up going all around Tallahassee buying TVs, buying sweatsuits. Whoa,
this is another story I was talking about. The deterant
this is. You might want to walk this back around

(36:34):
the Great Spirit mu still well, obviously I got caught
up on this, but I wouldn't be talking about giving
a confession to a murder making a murder, of course. Love.
So so we, uh, we go shopping everywhere, sweatsuits everything.
We're down to the last store. It's been an all

(36:57):
day excursion and and uh man, we see he taking
a long time. And then at the mars called Governor
Square mall. He's taking a long time, and the mar
he come. He could we see him coming out. He
coming out handcuffs. Now mind you, I'm just to dude
driving and you know, taking them around at every store.
So we're like, damn, he got caught. He got locked up.

(37:18):
So we're waiting at the house and I remember specifically,
we was watching American Music Awards Michael Jackson. We're watching
it on the new TV, Michael Jackson sitting there and
we're chilling eating it, like, man, we gotta wait to
get that call. And were here. Yeah, We're like, what's up?
Who is that? And then it's the police. We got
your house surround it. Sorry, they come in on us,

(37:48):
and mind you, it was other it was other cats
there with us. Actually it was one of my friends
that kind of led the way, that actually was a
good persuader and led the way. I was, like I said,
I was the driver, but for some reason, I guy
who got caught only pointed me out. So I ended
up getting knocked up. Um, and I ended up having

(38:10):
to do the thing where you pick up trash on
the on the highway. Yeah, I community service when you
said family, because the other situation was another thing. But
this other thing if the people do look, look you

(38:36):
know that that oh I said, it happened. It happened.
So sorry to bring that up. I'm sorry. I love
that you lived all these lives. I mean, I feel
like I feel like at the end of the day,
you grow and learn. You know, I ain't you know,
ain't nobody trying to move like that now. But you
know that was that was the thing where you kind

(38:57):
of like get influenced to I take responsibility up for
what what I do, you know, but it was what
I did too. But it was like, man, you really
can't like at a group like because I wasn't initially
my idea, but I'm like, okay, I'm driving, and what's
so crazy on some on some serious stuff like you know,
I've been going to visit um, you know, going to
visit prisons and talking with people inside it that's incarcerated,

(39:21):
and I've met people that are doing life sentences for
being in the car for something. So it put things
in perspective for me like that could have been here. Yeah.
How many times I ain't mean to get so serious,
but it's really how many times that night did you
say the following sentence, I'm just the driver. I'm just
the driver. Yeah, they weren't going for that man, they

(39:43):
you know I was. I was sitting there thinking like,
why did you only point me out? Not that I
wanted to point anybody else, but just like be quiet
at that point. But and this is post fan post
straight A's just to clear, I mean, this was doing family.
This is faun straight A's day. So that's because now
you got a daughter. It's funny because I look on
Instagram and I see your daughters in college. So it's

(40:05):
a totally different experience looking at what she's going through
versus what you went through, and you're sharing those stories
with her. Yeah, I mean that's what. I'm grateful that
I went through those things. Obviously, I'm grateful that I
came out of it on a on a positive side
because one thing I did, I always say, no matter
how much like things that I did, I wouldn't like.
Like I said, I wanted to killer, but my heart

(40:26):
was always good. I never really wanted to damage people.
But I just get caught up in stuff and do
certain things. But um, you know, I know, obviously stealing
from somebody was damaging some way. Or another. But you
made it sound real innocent, good though, but it was
a college obviously, you lover not a fighters. I hear
it in your spirit. I only fight for the right.
So how can we get to the first record? So yeah,

(40:47):
that's right? God, well you you were first signing Relativity Records? Correct?
So just that whole? What was your whole? I don't know,
like your aspirations? Once you had a record deal, did

(41:08):
you feel like well, first of all, how did you
explain to your mom that you're not going to go
back to school? And you know, my my story was
that my dad didn't know about the Roots until the
second album? No, seriously, he didn't. He didn't know until
do you want more? So all of organics like, I
just hid it and he thought I was still going
to college and I wasn't. Um, But how did you

(41:30):
get out of telling your mom, well, you're not going
back to college? And I think, I mean similar to
a certain degree, my mother didn't even know I was rapping,
you know, she just and I said, look, my I
got a contract, um, and I want to leave school
and go pursue my rap career. She's like rap, you know,
she kind of wasn't even she knew about it like

(41:50):
as a maybe saw something something out there, but she
didn't think of it as a profession. She was like, man,
you need to stay in school. And I was like, look, man,
this is a dream. Blah blah lit. She was like, Okay,
I'm gonna give you a year and a half and
then if it doesn't work. If it doesn't work, then
you need to be back in school. And she saw
how hard I was pursuing my goals. Initially was just

(42:13):
to be like to make a record. You know. I mean,
you know, as when you look when we used to
look at like Rap City and all these artists out there,
you would think once you see Big Daddy Kane or
you see Caress or you see the nw A, you
think they just rich and they got it made. When
you see you got a video. So I was like, man,
if I get a video and get a record out,

(42:34):
then life is done. Life is good. I made it,
but man, it was such an awakening when I released
my first single and went around doing promo, going to
every city, doing all the work, and it still didn't
really get to radio or get to that level of
what I saw big records on the box. Y'all remember
the box? Right, So I call up your own video exactly,

(42:58):
had everybody calling up when you know that there. I
was like, yeah, that's what I did. You best believe
a car from Motown, Philly, like every five minutes everything,
don't blink your exactly. So wait your first deal? What
kind of I mean not to be in your business,
but what kind of money is that? Because I'm like that,

(43:18):
your mother was like, okay, that's that's a couple of dollars.
I can all right advanced and to this day, um,
I think you know, it was a little like Twilight
and and no idea. It was like, what the hell?
We split five thousand dollars? Yeah, man, we split. We
split five thousand dollars. As far as what went into

(43:39):
I think, and I think our recording budget may have
been forty thousand dollars or something of that nature. I
literally remember signing a contract for Relativity at Relativity in Queens,
New York and getting in the car and I sat
in the hatchback of Peter King, who was our A
and RS car, because he didn't have enough room. So
it was like it was I said, in the hatchback

(44:01):
in the back of Yeah, so it was like one
of those things where it really became the journey. And
I'm stupid grateful for the journey because when we talk
about everyday people and stuff like that, like being common,
me know, the roots were able to be like come
out and just have a big singleing things. Just your

(44:21):
life just changes. It's always been like, yeah, gradual things,
working class, work class, working classroom c as simple as that.
And so it makes you value things more. You like
you you also know how to stay humble because you
know it's ups and downs in this and this whole
thing you and you don't get too shook by the
by the lows either because it's gonna be lows. And

(44:43):
then you don't get too shook by that because you know,
as as a working class artist, you like, this is
what I love to do. Times go get times go
heat up, times go get colder, but you just keep striving.
So yeah, and in the early nineties, I mean that
was typical for I mean rap record deals is sort
of like what junk bonds are to Wall Street. No

(45:05):
real real talk um. They last souls entire first album.
It was twenty thousand three Rising Costs five thousand everything
that's the entire budget um Cypress Hills debut album seventy
five thousand, to disci put in perspective invokes funky Divas
their debut, their sophomore album, that budget was two point

(45:27):
five million, The Metallica Black album that was five million.
Michael Jackson's Dangerous was ten million. So you know, a
lot of the early hip hop staples, like a trial
called Quest celebrated because they at least had a six
figure deal. But even then I was like two dollars,
which was pennies, you know, compared to That's how much

(45:49):
of the Redhead step child hip hop was compared to
the to the rest of the industry. Um So, I
will say that probably your most notable single, well, your
most iconic single is I Used to Love Her? Um weird,
uh weird uh acronym. I won't talk about the acornim

(46:16):
but what what was the what was the genesis of
I Used to Love Her? Well? I was I can
think about specifically where I was at and when hip
hop and it's every day hip hip You got sence revealed? No, No,
that was it? No, it's hip does that make sense? No,

(46:39):
it's hip hop in its essence and real. Okay, yeah,
but in the acronym you don't don't you don't put,
you don't put, you don't put in an acronym, you
don't have to put the little small words. Let go,
because you did get straight that your official she official
rights burbon I've been I've been teaching you forever for

(47:02):
that anyway. So yeah, for those those that don't know, um,
it's it's a story in which he personifies hip hop
as uh a girlfriend, his first girlfriend, and describes her. Uh,
I guess her movements heard you know, how they first
met and how she grew up and how he fell

(47:24):
apart and got back together, and um, it really touched
a lot of people. Um, I guess it's struck a nerve,
I'll say, But what was the what was the genesis
of that creation? Well, I was, as I said, I've
been a fan of this all aspects of hip hop.
And what struck me was I started to see people

(47:48):
on the East Coast imitating West Coast artists and that
was really like for me, one of the things that
hip hop was always you would hear people from Queen's
be like Yo, this is queens, like we this is
what we represent we East Coast New York and and
I and I saw artists that was like doing West
Coast stuff, like rolling around in cars like that they

(48:11):
don't do out here, and and I just felt like
some of the culture was being lost to some of
the purity of it was being lost. And that just
was the thought actually came to my mind because I
was just sitting around and once again I don't really
smoke weeds, so my friends were smoking and I probably
was just chilling like it was three and a lot

(48:33):
of hip hop I was listening to from from Midnight
Marauders to Balloon Mine States and Soul is a Mischief.
But also it was kind of in a hip hop work,
not a workshop, but like a camp almost because it
was no I d had these other dudes there that
was rhyming, his dude Herb g and and capping. My
load from day was from Indiana, so it was always rhyming,

(48:54):
and we were just freestyle and doing stuff. So I
was kind of sharpening myself and getting more introduced to
all these new things, whether it was jazz music, which
I wasn't up on, like to be honest, and then
it was like I just was sitting there one night
and said, man, what if I made a hip hop
a woman and just and don't tell that I'm talking
about hip hop until the end, And couldn't you find

(49:17):
a real woman? Hey? You know this, this is like
a real love story that like I could have found
a real woman. But no, you know what was so
what was so crazy? Was like and I thought about
this this the other day, like when you're young and
nineteen and you do a love song, your friends look like,

(49:40):
why are you giving this girl all his love? Because
I was rapping I used to love it in the
booth and one of my best friends, Roight Sign, was
looking frowning while I was wrapping it until I said,
who I'm talking about y'all this hip hop? And then
he was like, oh, ship, but that's I know it is.
I was saying, it's a messed up in town. I mean,
the reason why I thought about it because I was,

(50:01):
you know, you know, so much going on and we're
talking about the change in the culture and stuff and women.
I was thinking like, damn, I couldn't even wrap a
love song in nineteen and and my somebody supported But eventually, obviously,
as we know, as we know, I went out because
when you say when he was like one of them,

(50:22):
Oh you were talking about one of when I thought
you was gonna say the light was my most I
forgot about the light. How I just thought we was
going on. I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you my light story.
But we we when we get to when we get
to the Chocolate years. But um, did were you? First?
Of all? I mean, as an MC, I would say

(50:44):
that you're you're probably the most evolved human. I know
that's an artist because I mean, as an MC, you've
stuck to hip hop's rules of just I feel like
you right in the moment and just be like, all right,
I'm slve the consequence later. I'm gonna just say, like

(51:04):
you said something the wildest shit ever on wax, offensive,
non offense, whatever, just whatever, and like and I'd be like, right,
what's gonna happen? Like when you at least four I
used to love her? Like, were you not thinking at all?
Like maybe dost effects might take offense to this, maybe

(51:25):
the West Coast might take offense to this, and I'll
just let me go for it. Like did you have
any idea that people would I was or did you
just not thinking like this sing will just be like
my little single. No it's not no no, I that's it. Man.
You brought up a good point because when that was
also part of it. Why I used to love it
came about two was because it was like once dost

(51:49):
Effects would do something, everybody would start rhyming like that,
and I was I was like, the origin hip hop
was always about, like what are you doing this fresh?
That's why we use the word fresh, what's original? What's
your ways? Um? And I felt like when I wrote
I used to love her, I had enough courage and
and like heart, and I felt like I'm speaking my truth.

(52:10):
So if my truth gets I kept some repercussions because
of it cool. I didn't think it was gonna come
from the West Coast because I kind of said she
broke to the West Coast and that was cool around
the same time I went away to school and I'm
a man of expanding. Well, I know that, but I'm
just saying that I know that you meant, and now
I see motherfucker slamming and taking her to the sewer.

(52:30):
I didn't think that you meant like Dost effects onyx C.
You meant the clones of those guys that clones, But
did you ever see dos Effects or Onyx and then
not think like, oh you were talking about us, not
our clones or what what I was. The one thing
that that that I have to say going back to
the South Side that I was still had in me

(52:52):
was a crew crew crew, so so dost effects. I
actually thought they did me on the song and my
boy just brought this up. I went down to their
dressing room and with my guys Chicago, and it was
like doing the forty years and I was like, what's up?
What's up now? You know, like that they just steal

(53:16):
their TV. But by the way, man, I had some
no my friends, some of my crew. I mean I
remember doing the show with Coogi Wrap opening up for
Coolgie wrapping Red Man, and this is the my friends
just was didn't know. But they straight went into the

(53:37):
dressing room and ate their food from the rider. Yeah,
like took there and I had to pay for it.
Like anyway, My point is, you admitted. They admitted it now,
but they just knew like if we were the first
one day I had it was in my neighborhood. The
show was at the Regal Theater, so it's like about seventy. Yeah.

(53:58):
So anyway, I don't remember what the initial thing what
were saying, don't know, we just taught lessons in entourage. Yeah, no,
I had to learn that. I learned that and and
I was like, look, man, we're getting a list and
this is what we can do. And we you know,
we start you grow from that. You you start learning
I can't just roll and just roll have like forty
people with me just is not productive, and especially once

(54:18):
you start putting in perspective, this is this is my profession.
Oh that's what I was talking about. Even when when
I did the West Coast Um, I mean even when
mac Tinnon Ice Ice cuing them came out with the
disk record. We were um in Atlanta doing the show
at Grand puba outcast and mac Tinnon's and and those guys,
and uh we saw them at the show and they

(54:40):
you know, they kind of just walked past. And then
when they got to the into the hallway, they was
like they hollowed out west side and we was like
the south side what that means to us? You know?
Like so it was it was put it this way.
I was able to speak my truth because I spoke
that same truth around people I was around. So if
I couldn't do it into into the culture, then what

(55:02):
am I really doing? Plus, we used to say stuff
in hip hop like you could. I was listening to
Poolba he was like talking about Oprah or something. You know,
you would say stuff like this raw stuff ignorant. You
don't go viral like it does now. Yeah, but wait,
can we talk about beasts? Can I just ask about
fair Con? Because I always thought that was ill and

(55:23):
I think maybe it was like one more beef after
you guys where he entered. But what was that like
for fair Coon into your situation like that and being
from Chicago? How happen? It was? Really? It was pretty um,
I would say it was really powerful and in many
ways because it was right after First of all, I
kind of, you know, got introduced more to fair Con

(55:45):
through hip hop through Public Enemy, and people would bring
up fair a Con and and wrap. So then you know,
some of the cast I worked with, like No Idea
eventually with being the Nation at one point. But but yeah,
this is around the time they were Derek, my manager.
They all would have been through the Nation of Islam

(56:05):
and with fruits to Islam. But so by the time
Fara Cohn was squashing the beef, it was right after
Biggiest Death, which you know, what preceded Biggiest Death was
tupacs to Death. So it was like, you know, it's
weird I'm around at this point. He didn't even know
that he squashed the beef. I've never add I think

(56:26):
maybe the third time we met, you played me uh
verse one of the bitching you yeah, your response to
ice Cube, and he had, well you are you skipped
to the making up part, right, but you know you
like anyway, but this week they won't get it anyway.

(56:53):
So I didn't I didn't know that it got that
bad that he had to come and intervene. Yeah, well
it definitely. I mean, like I said, mack Tin and
all those guys are real guys from the West Coast
and I gotta respect that, and I know that they
will take it there. And like I said, it was

(57:14):
people on my side that also would defend me and
defend I would defend myself. So um, it was the tension.
We we weren't mature enough to be like, yo, man,
let's squash this ourselves. It was like that, you know
that young ego, like, man, you said this and that,
and so it was yo, Farrakan had to squash it.

(57:37):
People people were dying, and that's the point. We were like, man,
we got in the hip hop to live, like this
is something we love to do and I'm not out
here trying to destroy another human beings. So it was like, man,
we gotta squash this. He had a meeting. It was
us Fat Joe, I think some of the Goody Mob.
It was a lot of just just people from hip

(57:59):
hop and um. He was like, man, do y'all know
this is like this is like that Willie Lynch letter
where where you know, you pick the pit people against
each other East coast and West coast. Do y'all own
the land? He started breaking it down. Do you own
the land? Like you know that whole theory of like
man light skin versus dark skin? He started breaking it down.

(58:21):
Or you on this side and this side. It's just like, man,
don't let the master. Don't let not that they were masters,
but don't let them pit us against each other. Is
what the gist of it. All of us recognize that
is like money do you made in beef? Sometimes too?
So yeah, I mean it was like you think about it,
like all the money that was made and they didn't
go in your pocket. Right, So for first of all,

(58:44):
your next album, one day it all makes sense crazy, Um,
for one day it all makes sense, um, which I
kind of like now when I look at at the
at your and and I almost see one Day it
all makes sense, sort of as the flyer that someone

(59:05):
hands out at the nightclub that will announce the things
to come, like it's its own album, but really it
was the preview of because I mean you're you brought
Terek and Q Tip and Erica and me and uh
not Dilly yet, but who else was on it? Day
Celo two right Clo. Yeah, So it's like the idea

(59:29):
of bringing the community together. I have a question about
uh retrospect for life. We have to no, Well, here's
the thing. I mean, I know, you know, according to
Fox News, you're super liberal rapper or whatever. So I mean,
I know, I know that your pro choice. I know

(59:52):
that your pro choice in your everyday life. But the
narrative of that song seems very conservative, like it's and
I know that for you. I mean, you're really talking
to your daughter who's now a full grown woman. In
college and whatnot. But just at the time, what was
what was your mind state? Because just when I went

(01:00:13):
on Genius and just read the lyrics, I was like, wow,
like this could almost seem like a conservative, pro life
rap that people teenage girl who was making some mistakes.
It was like, I can't get through this song right now. Yeah,
but it was it was it was sort of a
heart string. Your first comment like sort of hearing but

(01:00:35):
I am about to be in somebody's teenage mama dol comments,
so you can just I'm just mad. I'm just mad
that you made the second song. That's the first thing,
Like what do you think of my record? I'm like,
why did you make that the second song? Like I
was mad at your sequence? Like work on my next record.
I was like, okay, bet I will you need some help.
But yeah, I was just talking about like did you

(01:00:57):
and Lauren go through that? Uh? Talk about that together?
They're like, how did that collaboration come? Well, first of all,
like it was I am pro choice. I believe every
woman human woman should have that choice to be able
to do what they want with their body and their
bodies and so so I really when I wrote Retrospect,

(01:01:20):
for Life, which is about abortion. I just really was
writing it from a perspective of what I felt like
as a human being, like the some of the the
fact that just being more responsible for me and not
just you know, being out here raw, you know, you know,
not like so it was more like, I'm I'm playing

(01:01:41):
a part in this and let me. I shouldn't have
to put people that I care about, me and the
woman through this, and at the end of the day,
I shouldn't put an unborn child through this. So I
kind of was just about you not want to be
a bet dad and that, and I just was you know,
I was talking about all the emotions. I remember writing

(01:02:02):
it because I used to go see a lot of
poets and this is writer named Gwendolynn Brooks and I
and I went to an event that she had and
I kind of all that sparked me to just write it.
I wrote that more as a poetry, so you know,
as you know, I mean, you always be like you
need to rhyme more and beat you can't count anyway. Yeah,
So so so you know, I kind of took that

(01:02:24):
poem and made it into a song. And what I
had been talking about talking to Lauren while you all
were on tour with it wasn't you all? It was
you all the Goody Mob And yeah, yeah, I was
talking to Lauren about doing the song, and you know,
she was on the move a lot, and then I
finally came across that song and and she with her
about to have a child and I was about to
have a child. It was like our babies were doing

(01:02:46):
the same day. It was kind of like this this
thing that was going on. I was. And we went
through the song because you had introduced us to James Poiser, Um,
I had James come through and and just started messing
with it. No idea did the drums we had because
we were going through the process of the song evolving,
and Lawrence just started trying different ideas and she I

(01:03:08):
think she wanted to do it because you know, she
was just supporting, but at the same talking, I think
she felt that the story was important, and I was
super grateful that she wanted to direct the video. And
I do agree that one day it all makes sense.
Was also a foreshadowing of what the evolution would be
at that time, because that was the first time I
really started like just using some live instrumentation and and

(01:03:32):
trying out different things. And it's fun when you start
exploding and learning about new music, like you've been a
great musician from a baby. But I was like learning
new music like that. I didn't know. So that's where
the album came out Like that, Why did it take
three years? Though? Man? I was stressing out, like over

(01:03:52):
I was going I was going out touring to get
to just support myself. Um, I wasn't happy with with
the lay bul like trying to figure out and they
were trying to talk me into They were using peers
like nads or different people to be like yo, you
see they making hit records, And I was like, man,
it just wasn't I didn't. I didn't have it in

(01:04:15):
me to try to just um cook up a hit
like like yeah, I'm about to make a hit record.
I just didn't know how to do that, to be honest,
and and that that just wasn't my Every everything I did,
I had to feel it like two for for me
to create it. So anyway, I was going through that
process with the label, and I also was like, man,

(01:04:37):
just trying to grow. I was trying to think you
ever been through That's that point where you're figuring out
like what am I going to create next? Like I
gotta be inspired to create, and and from a writer's
level two, it's like where do I want to write about?
What am I experience in in life? So I think
that's what took some time. Well that that would also
be your last record with no idea who at that

(01:05:00):
point YouTube closely associated with each other for your first
three records. How did you was the parting amicable or
how how did you too stop working? Yeah? No, I
think it was more it wasn't like, man, when we
got beef. It was more like, man, I gotta go grow,
and this growth is going to be I don't know,

(01:05:21):
I gotta move from Chicago because at the end of
the day, it was just like me musically just needing
to grow, but I just needed to grow as a
human being. And it was like being in Chicago. Even
around some of my friends I grew up with them,
their mentality was still boxed, and I was like, man,

(01:05:42):
I can't I'm out of this box. I was going
up to which it seemed like nothing to y'all now
because everybody experienced it. But I was going to eat
the Taifu restaurants. I was watching like like now, I
was watching movies like Four Rooms, you know, and it
was just like, yeah, you know what I'm saying exactly.
So I was I would be like, hey, y'all watch
the Four Rooms, and they'll be looking like, man, what

(01:06:05):
is this writ to like so and and and and
me not being like at that point strong enough to
be like, look, this is it. And I just like
I got and I came out. I came out to
New York, were like two weeks worth of clothing maybe
less than that, thinking I was just gonna stay for

(01:06:25):
two weeks. I never went back. I mean, you know,
I went back for home to go, but I moved
here to New York and it was just it was
one of the best things that happened in my life
because I got to you know, I would get to
go to the studio with y'all bumping the I would
bump in the Primo. I was introduced to a shocker Givings,
who was you know, did the crochet Like it just

(01:06:48):
was like I would go see a Gordon parks Um
display in and at at a museum in New York.
I could go me and but I would go to
jazz to jazz clubs and just listen. So it was like,
you know what, you know what New York is. It's
just the culmination of so many artists. So I got
to just spread my wings. Well I'll say that, you know,

(01:07:14):
of course i'd be supervised to say that. Well, yeah,
your your chocolate electric phase is my favorite period, not
because I was involved with it, but no it wasn't.
I mean, what you sure know, but what you did
was you provided me with the greatest front re seat ever,

(01:07:38):
which is getting to watch Dilla work in real time.
And I mean that was my excitement. That's the thing,
like all the dial A fan worship we do now
that he's gone. Um, I mean I it took everything.

(01:07:58):
He's one of those people that he's really uncomfortable and
he would always say like, yo, geek down, geek down,
like you weren't allowed to praise him. You weren't allowed to,
you know, call him up for five A and be like, okay,
is this snare drum from He would have never done
the show, right, Yeah, he would have done it. He
would have done it because he's my boy. But we
talk about that because how did he come into the

(01:08:20):
picture then? Because we don't know. Yeah, I'm gonna get
to that. So so in in making like Waterford Chocolate,
I mean was your because with that album you also
went platinum, which is weird because you wanted to make

(01:08:40):
such a radical left turn with your career platinum. I
know that you wanted to make an artistic statement and
then you just messed around and also went plat him
at the same time, which you know, none of us
even at the time when well maybe Voodoo because was
a singer and all its stuff, but during the time

(01:09:01):
of things wall apart and all these records are getting
me at the same time, none of us ever thought
that we were all getting one million people to shell
out this money to buy the music. So we were
just like, listen, just make the best music possible. But
for you, like what described first of all, just described

(01:09:22):
working with Dila because of all of us, I mean,
you sleep on his couch more than anything. You got
to watch him real time. Yeah, okay, So first I
met Dilla when I was out with day La So
and they had some beats and Mason's like you gotta
check out deala No, actually I met him with Q
tip Um. We went and did this Vibe conference that

(01:09:44):
Quincy Jones had, and and we left the conference and
went to Q Tip's house and his and at his house,
Dila was down like fingering through these records and he
was sitting there and I didn't He was real quiet.
So I did no dealer's like Detroit hood side to
a certain degree because he was just a quiet, good,

(01:10:05):
you know dude. And then q tips started playing me
all these these beasts at Diller. Then I was like,
this dude is incredible. So then I got a beat
tape from him. And and while that's when I was
thinking about, I was on the road with Daylie and
I said, j D can you come, can we like
lay some stuff? And he flew himself to Chicago and
laid some beats for me. I worked on them. And

(01:10:27):
this is in the process of me being I think
it was right after that was before one day. It
all makes sense. So I still I never used the beats,
but I think it was ninety eight. I went to
Diller's house where you are with the roots, where you
always going to do a fifth dynamite, Yeah, that's right.

(01:10:47):
So we went to Detroit. I just got you know,
we were all on the same label. So when I
hooked up with Dila at that point with y'all, it
was like, yeah, we gotta do some music. So I
would just make those trips to to Detroit, and it
was it was a combination of just me watching the
greatest in his his spirit, to him going to the

(01:11:10):
strip club and then coming back making beats to him
with us, going to Korean barbecue, you know, and just
chilling us, going to play video games or I mean
our video you know, go to the game place where
you shoot basket. I remember the least to love shooting
those um you know, you know the basketball. We go
to those joints or go watch the matrix. All this

(01:11:32):
was part of our bonding in relationship. Wasn't nothing like
playing There's just what we did. But they would definitely
go to strip club. And I'm not a strip club dude,
so um, not that I'm like judging, it just wasn't
my thing, but that's part of the culture of Detroit.
Really yeah so so they yeah exactly so um, But
just to watch him pull out records and just work

(01:11:56):
and just sometimes change my life like it was, it
was incredible and I was always if I wasn't there,
he even you know, when he was just making beats,
he would send me a batch. I got a batch coming,
and I would call his mother, you know my dukes
would be like, okay, I'm sending it to to your
place and I would get a CD or she would
mill it. Yeah, so so you know, and then to

(01:12:20):
watch him like started making songs with me, j D
would do what he wanted because I wanted him to
rhyme on the song Funky for You. I wanted all
of some some village to rhyme on that song on
like Water for Chocolate, Funky for You. And he sat
in the studio and and he was he was like
trying to come up with something. I guess, but I
don't think he really. His heart was in the rhyme

(01:12:41):
and on that one. But so that night he went
home and I thought he was done. He came back
the next morning pick me up and had to be
for the Lonius and had to hook Yeah. Yeah, I
play at your own risks, act like you know, bitch,
I'm on some grown ship. I was like, he's I
said what yo? He said, Yo, this this, I think
we should do this. When I was like, man, if

(01:13:01):
you give us this, this is incredible. So my point
is he would do what he wanted to do. Somebody
operated strictly from a passion level. That was one of
the dudes that I really felt like if he ain't
feeling you or feeling it, he ain't rocking with it,
but he would put his heart and soul into that music.
And you know what I mean, it's just man. I mean,

(01:13:22):
I got to before Dela Past. We were roommates, so
it was like in my front room, I just got
to see him sitting there just making beats like and
and it's saying token physically like in a way deteriorating,
but just still just making bowing to me. Because even

(01:13:43):
the last time I visited him, I didn't know that
he could barely communicate or talk or hold his hands up.
And I'm trying to figure out, like, especially the last
period of his life, that the whole deal with his
face where he was, I mean, the deal with his
face is close to the Donuts album, where it's just

(01:14:04):
the beats were so advanced that MCS didn't even belong
on those beats, Like he was basically communicating if you
listen to Donuts and you listen to all the samples
that he using the words that he uses, that's him
sort of communicating his last will and testament, his goodbye.
You know, him breaking down. I don't want to see

(01:14:24):
you cry, like to his mother and even the Tennessee
c Johnny don't do it to his little brother John
like just the way that he weaves samples in. I
didn't realize that it was that bad. But his mind
was still sharp. Physically it took. He was slower at
making the stuff, but the ideas of his mind were

(01:14:46):
sharper than ever which man his his his mind was there,
but it was really it was difficult for I mean,
obviously it was difficult to see somebody you know, like
is one of the greatest and then just one of
your friends, like not be able to do the things
that they were just like two years ago he was

(01:15:09):
coming to pick me up in the range row or
it might be the escalade and bumping beats and just
having fun. And to see him like laying on the
couch sick, just not being able to move and whenever
he could get that energy going to make beats. It
was just it was it was hard for me actually,
like wouldn't stay at the house as much because it

(01:15:29):
just was like, man, this is tough. But then I
was like I gotta be there at a certain point.
But it brought you know, my own um humanity or
what's the word, you know, like when you what's the
word on top trying to such tortality, my own mortality
in the play UM. But more more than anything, I
just felt for my brother like that, and I remember

(01:15:52):
him being like telling his mother he looked one of
the main things he didn't want to do was be
in the hospital on his birthday. The and he he
died three days later after his birthday UM February seventh.
He died on February tenth, UM in the physical form,
and it was like he was like, man, I just
don't want to be in a hospital on my birthday.

(01:16:13):
But it was deep, man, it was you know, that's
one of the greatest UM bonds I've ever had as
as a person, as a creator, and like we all
have been in all of him. When you when you
talk about people like you said, you ain't want to
just jump out and be like yo, you're great. I
can remember instant like specific instances like me and me

(01:16:36):
and j D walked into it for rail session for rail,
got down on his knees and started just bound down
to him. Kanye came to our house. J D gave
him a record of forty five with some drums. Was
Kanye used to sample j D's drums off his beat
taste and he was like, come on, man, just take
my off my feat tape. But but uh, you know

(01:16:58):
so j D gave him this, this record. I mean,
we went to me and he went to the studio.
He was like telling everybody, yo, Jake Della gave me
these delagaate me these joms. It just was to see
people's reaction when they saw Dilla. That made me be like,
oh man, this dude is the god. We knew he
was the god, but he was God. You know. He

(01:17:19):
and I, He and I had one. It was weird
because my the fan worship was so was so big
on my level that as executive producer of that record,
I also didn't want to make a misstep and I
was wrestling with in my mind on how to tell

(01:17:42):
him I didn't like a particular beat. Which one was it?
The Light? Oh man, I listened. I listened to a
lot to it. You know what. You know what it

(01:18:03):
was though there was a week. I don't know what
I had to do. I think it was touring. There
was a week I took off and I came back
and you already rhyme to it, and I was like, okay.
But it was just that it was just like at
that point because it was so because the amount of
work that we were doing was so radical and again

(01:18:25):
it was voodoo like Waterford chocolate, even the other stuff
we were working on. It was just like, to me,
the light was so I mean, in my mind, I
felt like we had to push everything to to the
left and so hardcore, and it sounded so normal to
me that I was just like, Okay, that's that's it.

(01:18:46):
That's normal. I was like, well, no, I mean just
at the time, I was just like I wasn't thinking like,
you gotta make something palatable for you know, people, to
keep it grasp. Yeah. I didn't know about that back
in two thousand, keeping it simple um. And I never
liked it. And it kept on winding up on the
you know, like the monthly. All right, let's get all

(01:19:08):
the beach together and figure out and that was always
on my like my prob my con. I was like,
I don't like that lights on whatever. It's all right,
but it's not exciting, you know. And because I always
felt like doing it was that was going to be
the single. You know, it's hardcore hip hop and that.
But also at the time, but this, but you also

(01:19:29):
have to understand that the rules the rules of of
of like the hip hop elite. I mean, we were
knee deep still in that whole. Like we had yet
to work with jay Z. So back then jay Z
was still the devil. You still had your you Got
Me formula about in Yeah, but we were the roots.
We were never accepted as quote real hip hop. We
were always alternative hip hop. So we get away with murder.

(01:19:49):
But the light was like that you Got Me? I
always thought. I looked at it like but the thing
is is that even common moving to Brooklyn, I was
seeing as a radical how could you move? You know?
And I was more afraid of the perception that I
brought him down or that sort of thing. So I
just didn't like it, you know what I mean. I

(01:20:11):
mean that's you know, I'd like it now, yeah, but
I love it now. Man. Look, I honestly that I
helped Paople, my mom my, mama house. I'm fine for you.
I mean, I have to say, like I never looked
at that song like it was commercial. I know. I
just went on when I heard that beat and he

(01:20:32):
honestly had that beat on a beat CD right, and
it was, um it was for fife or something, God
bless his soul something. It was just on a beat
c D. I think fife. It either got to and
it wasn't complete. He had just made it. It was right. Yeah.
So when I heard it, I was like, yo, sad,
what's up with this? You know? And he was like, man,

(01:20:54):
I'm about to I'll redo it for you. And he
put those drums and he started scratching the hook a
little bit and I was like, man, it was that's
all just hit my soul. And at the time, you know,
as you know, I was like in love with earthy
girls and all that, so I could just write, what
were you feeling like that first? Lie? Your mind? Blew

(01:21:14):
your mind. Erica wasn't the first choice for the video.
Who was Who was it? We had Lisa Bona for
like a week. We had Lisa, but do you don't
remember I forgot man. We had Lisa Boni for a
week and then she couldn't do it. She's never been
in a video. Yeah, she's been in linny stuff. Yeah.

(01:21:36):
I mean I don't count man his wife whatever. Yeah,
but yeah, we we had we had Lisa, and I
wanted and the thing was, I'm not that dude that like, yo,
we could exploit the relationship because again, I felt that
there was danger in the Erica thing, because I didn't

(01:21:57):
want the friction of Dungeon family versus so queer things
because back then y'all were still friends and I was friends.
At the end of the day, they were absolutely friends,
and so I just felt that was more danger making
abundantly clear. Yea, now we were I ain't even front
we were friends, I mean obviously, I mean, but it
was there was I mean, there was potential. Could feel

(01:22:19):
a certain way about a certain situation, and I was
just like, yo, man, just go just go at least
able name and that's safer route. And when she dropped
out and Erica was like I'm doing it, I was like,
oh man, this is just going to add fuel to
the fire. Then came to essence covering, it was like,
well that was like two years later. They were custom
It sound like so lightish. The light that was that

(01:22:40):
was a little later. That's when that was obviously together.
That's when he's wearing footies in the light. We weren't.
They weren't stop trying to got you. I'm not I'm
trying to get to that. We were not dating. Then
we say that Bill just no. So it was more
like one of those things that like I really liked

(01:23:02):
her and we had a real connection, but it wasn't.
We hadn't crossed the line. And maybe maybe it was
like that wasn't because of the Dungeon family, but maybe
you know, I don't know why we hadn't crossed the line,
but it was just like, man, I definitely looked at her.
I was like, this woman is incredible and I was digging.
But it wasn't that time yet he looked in the eye.

(01:23:22):
To this day, I don't look eric And because by
the time Come Close came around, it was like, oh yeah, no,
that was then it was we were together at that point.
So but but the light was the light was the
first time that uh and by the way, Come Close,
our mayor came with the idea for that video, but
I guess I forgot that. Yeah, yeah, he was like,

(01:23:45):
we need to doing something like say Anything. Wasn't that
the movie with John Couzon. Yeah, sometimes people love that.
I was somebody holding up something to a building and
I was like, we need to black say anything. Yeah,
and then and then we and then somewhere down the
line was center hand me or somebody's idea was like, man,
let's just make the woman deaf. You know that way

(01:24:05):
makes sense that you're holding the signs. Yeah, it just
gave it another dementia. But I wanted to say something
about the light. It was like the first time. Um first,
First of all, I laid to wrap down and didn't.
I didn't even finish it. That's why I was like,
took a time too, I tell you the rest of
my see piece, you know that was and I kept
trying to go back in the studio and relay it

(01:24:26):
and it never felt the same. So I knew that
record was just about a feeling. But it was the
first time that I ever saw little black girls like
singing my song. They didn't know who common was, they
didn't know common sense nothing. So it was like incredible
because you you were living when they came out. Yea.
So it was like I remember being on the radio.

(01:24:49):
You know those radio shows that they have. I was
on one of Radio Underground. I was on the radio
on the show and I was like, damn, like girls
are singing my songs and like it just it was
another feeling. It felt. It felt like rewarding that little
black girls were singing my song like they didn't because
they're not singing I used to love it. They're not

(01:25:09):
singing retrospect for life. They probably didn't know who I was.
So it just moved me to see that, and um, yeah,
I was grateful. Man the Light to this day. Uh.
DJ Dummy said to me, Man, do you know the
Light is like eighteen years old? Now, I said years
And what a full circle moment about that. I used

(01:25:29):
to love a moment too because now you are rhyming
about love and now it's it's cool and that and
and to this day, I think, you know, probably the
Light is the biggest song that I've had. Um, I
mean I might have, I think, I don't know, but
more than Glory. Well no, we're not more than yeah,
but but yeah, so I mean it's a love song.

(01:25:52):
So it's like full circle to to be like yo,
to me, the whole journey has been like man, you
gotta like grow grow into who you are and know
who you are at a certain point and then keep
learning more and more of what you start a standard
for yourself at that moment too, because then it was like,
as we started singing the Light, we were like, oh,
I wanted to do something else, tempt for me, you
know what I mean? Like so then would come close,

(01:26:14):
and then with the B albums, a couple of records,
but by the time we got to elect Your Circus,
it was like I was telling we gotta go out there,
like let's go, let's go out there, and like we
went out there. Well, wait, I gotta ask questions. Uh wait,

(01:26:37):
one question I have. Do you regret giving D'Angelo Chicken Grease? No,
You're fine, We get ahead, get on it. I love
that trade. For those that don't know, I mean not
the competition, but just the amount of work that was
put on all those records. It wasn't even like, Okay,
we're working on this record, working on this record. It

(01:26:58):
was just like we make a jam and then sell
to the highest bider like who wants it? Who wants
he wants it? And we were making Chicken, well, we
were making the song that was Chicken Grease for D'Angelo
for Commons Record and Commins Ready, he just started writing whatever.
And then D'Angelo kind of snuck in and had the
scowl on his face and length called me, called me

(01:27:20):
like out in the hallway, and he's like, yo, man, yo,
as I live. He was like as a living breath man,
y'all for real on y'all, wa man, Yo, you can't
give you can't give that nigg of that funk man, Yo, bro,

(01:27:43):
yo bro. You know, and I know that funk belonged
to me. And I was like, yo, man, you can't
just jack his song, man, Yo, man that you you
don't know what to do with that funk. That's my funk.
And so then I see, just leave. I went, I
went to you, and then I was like, wait a minute,
because that morning D'Angelo, who was we were still waiting

(01:28:08):
for Lauren Hill like to come and do her verse
on whatever song they were gonna do, like they had
a trade off. He did not even nothing to even
matters what her record, and she was supposed to do
something for his. So we had made Ghetto Heaven that morning,
uh for his record, And so then I was like,
you know, the trade off, like y'all trade songs. And
then I remember you you called me. I was the

(01:28:30):
first time I was in Brazil. He was like, man, man,
come on, man, get this beat to D'Angelo and I
was like yes. I was like yes because it was
a funky joint that I didn't think I'd already had
a funk like cold Blood. It was already kidding funk
and I'm not like the funk master, to be honest,
So so it was like, it's like I haven't was

(01:28:54):
more emotional, you know. I liked the soul jazzy that
blah blah blah. So it was like it was a
perfect trade off for me. I was just I was
excited and and and then it had D'Angelo already singing
on it, because you know, it was gonna be tough
for me to try to get right right, So so
I was like, we're good. Wait. One, it just hit

(01:29:17):
me that even during that period, you were going to
Cuba regularly, even before you were doing shows in there,
you were you technically or you were the second hip
hop actor performing Cuba or I know, I don't know
what you know, where I fall into as far as
act and performed out there. But we you know, we
would go out there with Black August, which was UM

(01:29:38):
organization that you know, I was raising money for political
prisoners UM and I went out there a couple of
times with them. Most and I went out there and
to lib and you know, it was it wasn't probably
legal to go out there at that time or whatever,
but we flied through whatever country we had to go
to and get to Cuba. Cuba was one of the

(01:29:58):
best places I ever went to. And along with that,
you know, I just met I just felt like, I
was like, man, this is a country where the people
are poor economically, but some of the richest spirits I
ever you know, come across music, everything, the joy to
you know, the architecture, everything, and it became a real
important part of my life. And um, you know, one

(01:30:21):
of the reasons I even wanted to go more was
because of the side of Shakore who I read her
book and her books helped, you know. I named my daughter.
My daughter's middle name is Osida because aside of book
just changed me. And when I would go to Cuba,
I would I got to connect with the Soda and
you know what was she like. She was just like

(01:30:43):
really up on a lot of things that you wouldn't
think she was up on. That was the stage for
me where I really understood you could be revolutionary and
conscious and still be fun because you know, when you
first started getting into consciousness, you think like you gotta
stay super serious like brother exactly. So, but she was,

(01:31:05):
you know, we would have drinks, have fun. She started
freestyling with me one time and she was like, yeah,
I first got up on you since I used to
love Oh, I love the roots I loved. I was like, yo,
you up on all this? This the woman that's like
it was in a shootout with the state troopers and
and got shot and fought for and and you've been
fighting and you're in exile in Cuba and and they

(01:31:26):
after you and you still like enjoying life, having fun
up on what it was. It was life enhancing for
me to get to experience that with it was crazy man,
because fast forward, just getting off the subject a little bit.
But I just recently was doing a film where I
was these FBI agents were Um, I played a detective

(01:31:49):
and FBI agents was involved in it. Um it's not
out ye, it's called three seconds will be coming out.
But I was sitting with this lady that was an FBI,
like one of the top FBI people. Was just like, so, man,
who are you who was on your most wanted list?
And then she was like, uh, um, maybe you never
heard this woman Joe and chestermon I said still still,

(01:32:12):
I said, what, that's where y'all going. That's one of
the top people that you're gonna name me that America
is after to me. But I mean even not even
though in my history, but the fact that that she
is at one of the people that they put on
the top of the list of most wanted with all
this going on in the world, like she's a threat
to American freedom. She's got to be in a sixties

(01:32:37):
like sixties something. Um. Anyway, man, it was Cuba, all
that experiences and credit was the first time I ever
had to write. I had to write down my lyrics
because they was like they wanted to make sure I
when saying no anti common and stuff like. They was
like and I had to like straight right down the
songs used to love and write it down and be like, yeah,

(01:32:58):
oh before you performed there, before you perform damn, damn.
I didn't know it. So Electric Circus now he's sixteen
years down the line, we can celebrate and say, you know, man,
I'm so ahead of his time. But that was such
a dangerous record and I felt awesome. I mean I

(01:33:21):
stand by even when we turned it in and you know,
we got to work with prints on that record and stuff. Um,
first of all, just talk about Prince, like you hung
out with him a lot. You got him to play
on your record, which name check. Yeah, so it's what
was it like like just hanging with him? And how
do you avoid all those religious talks? And wait a minute,

(01:33:45):
I got you didn't know I didn't avoid Like okay,
the first my first encounter with Prince was like when
um he the light was out and he was We
were at um the Riviera in in Chicago, and he
came up to me like it was like, man, I
love the light and it's He was like, it's crazy

(01:34:07):
that you know that song still sounds so ful and
it's in D major and I was like, yeah, uh,
you know, don't don't please, don't test me. So so
we he we you know, he saw me kind of
just brush over. That was like the thanks anyway, he

(01:34:29):
is right analyzing my head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so um,
and every time I play with musicians, if I'd be like, yo,
it's in D major you know. But anyway, yeah, so
he was like we um. You know, we actually got

(01:34:52):
to do a show for his birthday at Paisley Park,
and of course we got to were sitting down talking.
They had to curse in the in the in the room. Um,
he was talking about spirituality. Um, the doves were in
the doves were right in one of the rooms. As
you know, when we eventually went to Paissy Park as
a basketball court, everything Dave Chappelle described to Charlie Charlie Murphy,

(01:35:15):
God blessing. So it was was in that house, in
that place. So we did the show we opened it
was me Erica and the time during his birthday party,
and from that point we kind of built good rapport
and you know, we was like I said, he said
that you can come back and recorded Paissey Park. So
we took everybody. He came out there. We all we

(01:35:39):
went to Paissey Park and worked on some of the
electric circuits, which was for all of us. Just like
I don't know if you'll remember, but his father was
playing piano. Yeah, princes father came to visit and it's
just I just remember that even I had shrimp, and

(01:36:00):
I was told Prince wouldn't allow any meat or or
animal products inside the the you know the building, and
I was like, you know, it's like timbolow zero outside,
like I'm supposed to go outside neath this, And I
remember them saying that he made Magic Johnson go outside
need a fully fish and it was like twenty below.

(01:36:24):
So I defiantly snuck those shrimps under my time time.
And I remember like all my demos were named after meat,
like that's where I ate shrimp and studio beat, like
all my titles for your demos were like, uh yeah,
named after foods that I snuck in the Paisley Park

(01:36:46):
because he didn't improve it. But what the Jimmy rock
Star questions, I don't know about the session. Okay, I'm sorry.
I'm really excited as you were talking about Paisley Park.
I'm not going to use my own platform to disassociate
the perception that I was behind the wheel of this
entire album, at least for the the radical movement of it. Okay, No,

(01:37:10):
I think we definitely got some phone calls from some
of your friends. Well, I know that I know that
no Idea was concerned. Oh yeah, they have been flipping
out the Chicago home you have words like, But it
was just like, what's weird is that Jimmy was a

(01:37:30):
rock star. Dila was Diller brought all these silver Apple records,
all of these like these prog these crazy prog rock albums,
general giant silver apples. Yeah, like just stuff that we've
never heard before, and like we would just sit and
listen to them. It was like a seance almost. He

(01:37:51):
just sit, We sit in the room, look at the turntable,
and then whatever we just listened to. We let a
process for ten minutes and then we just run in
the studio and I remember maybe four minutes end up
making Jimmy was a rock Star. And even though I
was playing it, and I don't know if you guys

(01:38:13):
are familiar, but it's a very just a radical rocks,
electric rock song about the life of Jimi Hendrick, and
I said, I was like, Yo, man, I'm gonna go
down for this record. Man. I feel like I enjoyed it,
but I was just like, Yo, man, everybody's gonna blame
me for this record. Man, it's gonna be my fault. Well,

(01:38:33):
don't do that. Yes, we're live, but you know, I
will say that calmed down like will I will say
that in in retrospect, that album needed a good ten
to fifteen years to grow on the people, because now
it feels though that was definitely the beginning of the

(01:38:55):
kind of alternative area that groups like the Internet and
and I mean j Davy even like they're they're early stuff,
and and just a lot of the electronic could hip
hop movement. That's that's catrona, like that's happening now. Yeah,

(01:39:15):
well I think you know I can remember not only like,
first of all, the sessions with Jimmy was a rock star.
I am music that all those are made in one
sessions I had you, Pino Della and and James Pois
are all playing stereo lab. I forgot we had we
had stereo lab like two, so we were I mean,

(01:39:36):
Electric Circus was the result of me being like, man,
I gotta keep growing, I gotta keep it. I felt
like I hit a ceiling of and I wanted to
go higher, like I wanted to knock off the ceiling
and be like, man, hip hop has no ceiling, and
and and because I was listening to Jimmy Hendricks and
listening to stereo La listen to a lot of Pink Floyd.

(01:39:58):
Pink Floyd, that what was up of that? Like you
and Erica just went through this pink that I didn't get.
I just loved Pink Floyd. I wasn't like I can
remember being young and my and my cousin wanted he
would play me Jimmy Hendricks and the Pink Floyd's stuff,
and I wasn't really into it. I was like, man,
it's cool, and it didn't hit me. But for some
reason at that point I got to appreciate its funny

(01:40:20):
how things. And I was listening to you know, obviously
The Wall, but I was listening to Um Dark Side
of the Moon. That's what I was really and and
then you know, also listening to radio Head. Not just
only older rock, but just for me, Like I said,
discovering new music was always opening me up as a
as a hip hop artist too. So when Jimmy was

(01:40:40):
a rock star was made, I couldn't really rap on
that beat and I'm not a singer, but I just
went in approach that I remember now, I said on
smoke Weed, but I remember going smoking smoker, you admit it,
going in there and just being like because I had
to be courageous enough to just just be out there
and be singing with Erica, and Erica would be like,

(01:41:03):
you know, she would be like she was to be supportive,
like you could do it, you could do it, and
then just yeah, that's it right there, and it was
just it was it was like a stress, but then
it became like fun in a way, just to even
explore that. And and it's funny you talk about Electric
Circus because when I first played it for one of
my good friends, it was two thousand two, when we

(01:41:23):
released it, he was like, man, this album need to
come out in two thousand and twelve. Man, what are
you doing? It's too I was like, He's like, this
is too ahead of his time. You're doing too much.
And you know, some people felt that way. But now,
like as you said, even with the rerelease of it,
I felt like but I felt proud. Even then I
didn't feel like because somebody was just talking to me like, man,

(01:41:43):
they wrote you off. At that time, it was like
it did, that's what it did. Yeah, yeah, because Nicks
was like we lost him. Yeah, But I mean, but
how you felt out and out did you feel at
the time? It's still the thing is just in general,

(01:42:05):
if I love something a lot, then I know that
not saying it's not good, but it probably won't hit
with the rest of my personal taste are the opposite
of what I feel regular mainstream society is into or
not into. Um I want to ask Steve, because Steve,
you was there for what do you what do you
think when we was doing it was like this, it

(01:42:27):
is too crazy her Well for the for the technical
side of things, it's funny how it went down actually,
because we were in the middle of converting, like we
were turning over from from reels from from tape to
start to use pro tools more and so on electric

(01:42:49):
circus that that's literally when the turnover was. So we
were using tapes and pro tools and we're sending out
tapes to people and then other people wanted files and
they were sending back files and sending back so we're
using both formats at the time, and um, so we
were sort of busy with that and we were high,
so I'm not really paying attention to the creative side.

(01:43:11):
But Steve like, wait, y'all did we did? Wait here's
the thing this this so format was supposed to be
ninety minutes, and we went to two hours. It would
I would get murdered if I don't mention working with
Kanye West on the b record. Okay, so I'm sorry
we didn't get to his acting career in two part two,

(01:43:34):
but Obama at least with at least with b Um.
How did you feel having a new lease on life?
If it felt it felt invigorating. I felt like I
really loved Um and it sounds crazy. I loved the

(01:43:55):
the challenges I was getting from Electric Circus really yeah,
meaning like, oh man, you're done. And I loved That's
a good feeling. It motivated me for real. And and
at the same choken I've been like opening myself up
to acting, which was like studying it, and and that
was opening me up to a certain degree just as

(01:44:18):
far as creativity. And then it was like almost was starting.
I look at it career and think of it like
a cycle, and I kind of was starting that on
a new cycle at that point, and like a new
cypher was starting even and not that I was going down,
and like it's not like just on one level, it's
actually vertical like the cycles. So it was like, Okay,

(01:44:38):
this is a new cycle to starting, and I just
felt the hunger of a new MC, like like man.
I remember Kanye gave me get Him High because he
had been telling me I want you on this song
or maybe this song, and I was all right, just
let me know, and then he gave me get Him High,
and I was like, man, I'm about to tell this
ship up, like I'm about to let them know what

(01:44:59):
it is. And it's that this is a one of
them opportunities. And from that point, Yea Yea was making
a beat. He was in the studio session for Eve
and I would We both were in l A and
he said come by the studio and I came by
and heat and he was playing the beat the food
and it was like man, I'm just making beats and

(01:45:20):
he was like, yo, you want this And he just
gave me that beat and I went and wrote in
my car and wrote that and that was the start
of us being like, man, we're about to just start
working on this album project. I told him. I remember
calling him saying, man, um, I'll be on your label
and then he was like, man, you sure. That's He's
like that's incredible. So I was just on his label.
And what that process started was us going. I would

(01:45:43):
go buy records, c d s, and I would listen
to as many CDs, all the stuff like from all
I learned from Della, from no I, d from the
beat Nuts, from you all whatever records like names, records
I knew, and I would buy blindly, just records. I
would listen to him, put the best records in front

(01:46:03):
of you. He would listen to him, mark the ones
he liked. If it's something that sparked, he would put
all these samples into a sampler and then whatever he
got motivated, he just started cooking up and and and
it was like for me, the joke and the renewing
was like, Okay, I'm working with you who was around
when no Idea and I was doing one day that

(01:46:24):
don't makes all makes sense? And he comes from you know,
is from Chicago, and we already knew each other, but
now we never worked at this level. And he's like
even like more like confident, and just he not even
just more confident, he just more culture. Because he was
confident then he was confident beyond his level at that point.

(01:46:45):
But that confidence caught up with his ability and he
was and he just was really a producer. He started
being like, nah, ros rewrite this verse, or man, this
is what this hook is gonna go like, and so
it was really good. It like combination because we both
was hungry and we felt He wrote about it in
one of this some table book he had. This kind

(01:47:06):
of was the meeting of like what I've done and
have built, what we've done and built in in hip hop,
combining with where he was in his career was like
the perfect like combination of and we both just love
like he was with, yeah, I can still reference a
trial car Quests or he would reference a Trial car
Quests or or some brand Nubians. But he's still also

(01:47:29):
listened to some of the stuff that I didn't listen to,
which was, you know, like some of the more commercial
hip hop. Or he would be like, man, Mace is
one of my favorite rappers, and I'd be like, really, yea,
with all due respect to Maze, not because I know him,
and you know, when I listened back, I'm like, okay,
that's what you you know. But ultimately we had different

(01:47:50):
tastes in certain areas, but it just was a man
it was an incredible energy. Yeah, that and and just
great songmaking and envision and like the passion. I remember
specifically being like, you used to do listening to sessions.
You know how we used to do listening sessions for
journalists and you would like jump up on the table

(01:48:10):
and be wrapping his songs and stuffing people. Yeah, you'd
be like not spending on purpose, but just you know,
just passionately doing this thing. And I was like, damn,
you know that ain't necessarily what I need to do
jump up on the table, but it kind of made me,
I mean, I needed to do it my way, like
be confident in what I was, what I was presenting,
if I really believed in it that way instead of

(01:48:31):
just being like kind of like just check it out, humble. Yeah,
it was. So it was a lot of things I
learned doing that process from him. But creatively, you know,
he definitely is one of the best man to me,
It's like he knows how to push the envelope. But
and he has a knack for making He's rooted in
hip hop and soul music, but he still has something

(01:48:54):
that he's The stuff he chooses ends up being like
really catchy stuff. That can reach new audiences. So but
it's rooted and soul. So thank you for doing the show.
Thank you, Thank y'all for having me. This has been incredible.
Thanks Steve lah there, Thank you, comfortable Mare. All right, well,

(01:49:17):
we'd like to thank our audience for for for joining us,
and hopefully we'll do feature live broadcasts of course, Love Supreme.
Enjoy it. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. See
all the text graph of Whatur's Love Supreme. It's a
production of My Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced

(01:49:40):
by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts for my
heart Radio, this is the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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