QLS Classic: Kathryn Bigelow

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic
episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen,
Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme QLs Classic Edition.
This episode is from August ninth, twenty seventeen, with Katherine Bigelow,
director Academy Award winning director Katherine Victim. We go through

(00:24):
our entire canon, especially her film Zerolay Dog thirty, The
hurt Locker Detroit, and an unintentional comedy called Point Breaking.
We hope you enjoy it. This. This is Quest Love
Supreme US Classic Edition. Bicky a World Premier.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Supreme, Sign Supreme, Supreme, Sun Sign Supreme, Supreme Sign Supremo,
Roll Supreme Sun.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Supreme to the entire world. Yeah, I grieve you with
Hello Yeah. Translation to Detroit.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah, what up though, Supremo Supremo Role, Supremo Son Supremo Rod.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
My name is Fante. Yeah, let's keep it dirty. Yeah.
My skin complexion yeah zero dark dirty Supremo Rodd. Name
is Sugar.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yeah, I'm pretty big.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:36):
What's my point?

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah, Point.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Supremo Role, Sumo Son Supremo Role.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I'm on pay bill.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:50):
She y'all don't sue me. Yeah, I wanted to thank
Catherine Bigelow for Gary Busey.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Supremo Roll Supreme Supreme Roll.

Speaker 7 (02:04):
I'm like em yeah, and I'm the ship. Yeah, sitting
next to an Oscar winner. Yeah, but I ain't gona trip.
Roll Come.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Supremo, Roll Call Supremo, Supremo.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
Roll Bill don't care, Yeah about how you feel?

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, but Ron Silver Yeah it was Ellen Blue Steel Supremo,
Roll Call Supreme, So Supreme, roll Come.

Speaker 8 (02:37):
I'm Catherine yeah and peace.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah yeah, roll Come, roll Call Supreme Supreme.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Roll call was.

Speaker 9 (02:54):
Upre Rolland wow, that's a ball start, she said.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
One word dropped it. You do what you want when
you pop. You're also mad at you? He was?

Speaker 7 (03:15):
He was?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
He was, Yeah, he was. He was a motherfucking yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:19):
Wow you did Blue Steel?

Speaker 4 (03:20):
I just wow.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yes. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of
Course Love Supreme, only on Pandora. Uh. This is your
host Quest Love, and we have Team Supreme. We have
hy He Gordy as.

Speaker 10 (03:37):
Organizer, and we have Bill DeBarge boss already light skin joke,
it could be we We we have Fante Robinson over here, yes.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
And uh over here. We have uh, Bill Ruffin would
be not exactly and the smoothest the moment or the
morrow we have Steve Gay.

Speaker 5 (04:08):
On on it's so good.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
You heard it here on back?

Speaker 6 (04:13):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Are you okay, Steve? Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:16):
If anybody hears me, grown, it's not that you're boring.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
No pain. I was gonna say, you're not trying out
a new sexy voice. You're just no. No, this is it.
This is all I got right, that's exactly. Thank you.

Speaker 5 (04:32):
I'm going to turn the micuick. But I'm not talking
because I'm growing.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Okay, So just just again, you're not having a sexy moment.

Speaker 5 (04:41):
No, I'm Steve Gay but I'm not being sexy.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
I'm just being.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Can anytime? Are you talking? I just put this on?

Speaker 5 (04:51):
Can you make thing I've ever sounded with the.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
List and gentlemen, our guest today is a groupping storyteller,
very intense and stark as a writer, and a director
is such a ashen I'm sorry director with such action
classics as a point Break, Strangers Days K nineteen and
Blue Steel. By the way, I too have never looked

(05:17):
at Ron Silver the same after that film came out. However,
in twenty ten, she made history as the first and
only female to win the Best Director Oscar Challenge Give
It Up Strong Challenge for her IRAQ Award drama classic
The hurt Locker and her follow up film, the equally

(05:39):
gripping twenty twelve zeror Dark thirty also garnered universal claim,
earning her New York Film's Critics Award for Best Director
as well, and in twenty seventeen, she follows that up
with her next film entitled Detroit. But you know, for
all my people of Detroit, I secretly call the D

(06:01):
the D in my head. And it's a film that's
centered around the Algiers Motel incident, one of the many
stories that I have occurred during the nineteen sixty seven
riots that really, you know, transform that city into what
it is today, kind of putting the long history conflict

(06:24):
relationship between the police and the inner city residents or
on full display for the world to see. And if
you think that she lets up on her intensity, think again,
because it's intense as hell. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome
to Quest Love Supreme the one and only Catherine Bigelow.

(06:47):
Thank you, Wow, this is an honor to have you
on the show to be here. Normally, you know, we've
been in our comfort zone with with Grammy winners and
music icons. But because of the city of Detroit and

(07:09):
its relationship to music and the sixty seven riots, which
actually affected the outcome of a lot of the music
that came out to the city, most notably Motown migrating
to the West as a result of the end of
the Detroit And for those that don't know the central

(07:29):
role that the group the Dramatics plays in this film,
I thought it was only right to have you on
the show to speak of it. How are you? How
are you today?

Speaker 8 (07:43):
I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm happy to be here, happy
to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
So I have to ask, because of okay, your film, magarey,
I'm so used to saying your discography or your cannon,
Yes you can, you know you're probably. I mean, when

(08:08):
when all is said and done and we look at
your your canon, Uh, the intense level of your storytelling
can't be denied. What what is your your goal? As
far as when you make a film, like what's your
mission statement? At least like when artists make a record,

(08:29):
there's the mission statement that's used like one or two
you know, phrase it this is my dadada statement or whatever.
But for you, is it just to rip the ribbons
and the bows off of the conventions of what Hollywood
expects and for you to just come.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
At it raw off?

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (08:50):
I think.

Speaker 8 (08:52):
I think up until hurt Locker, it was you know,
kind of learning the craft. And then with hert Locker,
I sort of discovered that you could kind of look
at film like journalism. In other words, it could it
could be about something you don't already know. And I
thought that the Iraq wards of really contested engagement that
was very underreported at the time, and I didn't know
what an IED or an EOD tech was, and so

(09:16):
it gave the audience an opportunity to kind of perhaps
maybe a bit immersive, but to experience what it might
be like over there, so you could begin to have
make your own decision about it, you know, should and
so that was interesting to me. So that was what
I suppose informed zero Doarc thirty as well, like you know,
how do how does something that take ten years to

(09:38):
find this individual who was the most hunted man in
the world, and so trying to unpack these these I
don't know these stories and treat them almost like journalism.
In other words, it's it's kind of both at the
same time.

Speaker 12 (09:53):
Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because I particularly
those two movies. I always thought that they took a
every journalistic approaching, that they're very kind of just the
facts kind of way, versus, if you like, with The
hurt Locker in particular, if you look at someone like
a Spike Lee, who his movies are very overt, like
you know how he feels about everything in it. But

(10:13):
with The hurt Locker in particular, I love the movie,
but you don't really know your personal feelings on the war,
Like what were your personal feelings about it?

Speaker 1 (10:22):
And how did you keep that bias out of the film?

Speaker 8 (10:25):
It TWA's hard, but I sort of looked at it
like kind of threading a needle of being pro soldier
and anti war. You know, if you could somehow do
that and also giving an audience the opportunity to have
enough information to make their own decision. I don't think
it's up to me to judge, you know, it's I

(10:46):
feel like my role or responsibility is to present and
then you know, enable you to come away with enough information.
But it is very hard It's a good question because
you know you're constantly wanting to but wait a minute,
I'm really passionate about you know, I don't want to
go I don't want to be in this engagement. But anyway,
so it's it's tricky how.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Do you tackle I mean, especially with the hurt Locker
one of one of the factor factors that are on
full display sort of the the male toxic relationships that
are that are in that movie, you know, even when

(11:25):
they're not engaged in battle, just how they deal with
each other. I mean, how do you like Well, I
guess Fonte kind of asked, like, how do you even
present that without presenting your bias? Whereas a producer or
a studio head could say, well, you know, what are
you trying to say with your agenda that you know this,

(11:48):
that this particular demographic is is someonet messed up in
the head or that sort of thing, Like how do
I mean, how do you even.

Speaker 8 (11:58):
Well, it's a good question. I mean, the writer was
embedded with the EUD texts Mark boll And, so he
came back with a tremendous amount of information and really
brought it to life on the page. And so that
helped inform me a lot, and then I went to Kuwait,
I went to Camp Era Jam. I spent time in

(12:21):
in you know, in stitute to the extent I can.
I mean, I couldn't go. I couldn't go the five
kilometers across the border to Iraq, but I could be.
I was in the staging areas, so I got a
sense of what I don't I don't suppose what the
psychology is of these individuals, and so spent a lot
of time with the EUD texts and just you know,

(12:42):
you're you're in a really heightened scenario. I mean, you're
trying to clear a three hundred meter perimeter around some
suspicious wires sticking up out of the ground. And as
you get closer in that three hundred meters walk, you
have to you know, at the beginning, you're thinking of, well,
it's you know, it's one hundred and two degrees outside.
I'm you know, my IQ is dropping because about how

(13:02):
it is inside the soup. But as you're closer and closer,
they always talked about there's a twenty five meter perimeter,
and that's when you start thinking about your family, and
it's just you know, do I have everything in order is,
you know, and so it's a very It was interesting
kind of understanding that degree of commitment and dedication, I guess,
and yet trying to also understand the methodology of the insurgents.

(13:27):
I mean, this, this is a different This isn't like
a ground war like you know where where people wear
different helmets and it's like, oh, they're the bad guy.
I mean, you don't, you know, it's a very you
don't know who's who. And also you have to be
very quick in terms of disarming this ied before your
coordinates are called in by a sniper in the areas,

(13:48):
you've got about maybe three minutes maximum to figure out
which one you know, how to unpack it. But but
so it's trying to I don't know if I'm answering
your question very well, but it was trying to unders stand.
I guess. What I try to do is is create
as experiential a situation environment as I can, so I

(14:09):
keep the camera very alive, keep the cast doing their job,
not thinking about camera. I did the same thing with
in the Algiers motel, where you're just you're doing what
you're you know, you're either against the wall or one
of the officers, So it's keeping you on task.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Okay, Well that leads me to my next question. Okay,
because because I always feel as though whatever camera number
one is also a character in the film, how do
you because a lot of the you do heart panning,
You do a lot of heart panting instead of cuts,

(14:46):
Whereas I really feel like, okay, I'm a character in
this and you know I'm inside of this world. How
do you even coordinate the choreography? I mean, I'm thinking
of like the founder almost where oh yeah, exactly, Like
as far as the technical preparation is concerned, how do

(15:08):
you do it so that you you maintain the the
the key elements of the scene without him being in
the way or the actor is being distracted like you know,
Like well, I mean, first.

Speaker 8 (15:23):
Of all, you've got this story, this narrative beginning, and
that's somewhat linear. That's all that's linear. Everything else is
in motion. The act that cast is in motion, the
cameras are in motion. I light the entire area so
everything is live. And then I try to I try
to work in in situ as long as possible. In

(15:44):
other words, like you could do eight pages if you
want it to. In other words, it's very I try
to keep it as continuous as possible, but but I
keep I keep it very alive. And then eventually, usually
just when the first couple of days it cast just
the disappears for them and they're just they're kind of
on point. They're doing what they are who they are.

(16:07):
Like in terms of Jeremy Renner and Hurt Locker, he
was just walking down that three hundred meter perimeter, it
didn't matter, and the cameras were constantly switching up take
after takeout, four cameras working simultaneously, and you just I mean,
I think in a way it's kind of freeing. He
had never worked like that before, and and I think
it's kind of freeing. There's no blocking, there's no blocking
for camera, there's no there's no marks, there's no rehearsals.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
No practice, no nothing, no. So are you are you
coordinating like a defensive coordinator? Because even then, like when
there are certain scenes where they'll there'll be a certain
shot and then suddenly on cue the camera will pan in,
like and I'm always wondering, like, are you in someone's headphones?

Speaker 8 (16:52):
Like Okay, I wish I did, Like.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
So they just do it on instinct and just you
trust them enough to know when to blur up a
shot and then focused and.

Speaker 8 (17:03):
I need that technology. But no, Barry Ackroyd is he's
a genius. He's a cinematographer and both hurt Locker and
Zerrator and her Locker and Detroit right, and and he's
so uncanny, so intuitive, I mean he and so those
are you know, he'll snap zoom, like he just knows
what you want. He just knows. Yeah, we talk it
through and then and then he feels it. In fact,

(17:26):
he doesn't want to see a rehearsal. He wants to
find it in that first take and and he talks
about that. I mean, that's that's very important for him.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
So you're like a jazz music.

Speaker 8 (17:35):
I was just gonna say, it's like a jazz jazz
because it can't be rehearsed or mechanical. Then it then
it loses, it loses something.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Are you are you ever over the editor's shoulder or
do you just turn your tapes and you just trust
that they know what you want? Like, at what point
do you let your baby go and trust that they
will cut what was in your head at the time
when you're thinking of the shot and a certain scene.

Speaker 8 (18:05):
Well, I also have I have the just in my opinion,
the world's greatest editor, Billy Goldenberg, who did Sero Dark
in Detroit. And what's this style of shooting? There's no
masters medium's close ups. It doesn't work like that. You're
just everything is constantly in motion, like the actor may
walk around the humby and then suddenly he is in

(18:26):
a close up. For in other words, it's it's very fluid.
So Billy takes this, which in a way is very chaotic,
can really seem very chaotic, but he creates the linearity
and I trust him completely and I am there. But
so you are there, I'm there.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
I've heard well, I mean not that I know that
much about filmmaking, but I do know that like in
the case of Martin and Filma, he says that the
second he's done a film scores, just give Schoolmacher his
films and it's like, it's on you. You know what
I like, and I'll come back. Like there's always an

(19:08):
issue of micromanaging of that sort of thing, like not
letting go. And I didn't know if it was an
unwritten rule that once a director finishes shooting, then you
just give it to the editor and trust that they
know what they're doing.

Speaker 8 (19:21):
Well, I trust completely and I love him to, you know,
find a certain autonomy. But I think he would agree.
Hopefully I'm speaking for him, but I think it's a
real collaboration with the crew, with the cast, with everybody.
It's a real it's a real collaborative medium, and I
think it's at its best when it's collaborative.

Speaker 11 (19:42):
Can I ask you?

Speaker 7 (19:43):
It seems like and I might be assuming, but it
feels like hurt Locker was the beginning of one hundred
percent passion project for you, like a toe chapter because
hurt Locker, of course an Nzel Dark thirty Detroit. I
wanted to know, is that the case or what does
the different? What happened in between to number one to
get to the point where you could do this? Are
these are one hundred percent passion projects? And yeah, what

(20:06):
was the transition to that point? Because of course you
did so many movies and projects before that, but these
last three seem like, yeah, and this is your heart.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
And then you did My Zone.

Speaker 8 (20:19):
Well, I feel like the ore the films before them,
and and of course you know you're kind of I
don't know you can't have favorites, you know. But but
I feel like they prepared me for those. And I
couldn't have done hurt Locker or Zero Dark or Detroit
if I hadn't done those. And one thing that was

(20:40):
a real departure was working with emerging talent or you know,
mainly unknown talent. And and I kind of made that, uh.
In other words, if you wanted to finance or produce
the hurt Locker, you had to work or that was
a prerogative creative control. And let me tell you that

(21:01):
winnowed out a lot of options out there, you know.
And and and then there was this one gentleman who
took the leap and and for very little relatively for
a movie like that, small amount of money, And I
was able to cast exactly who I want, cut it exactly,
cut it the way I shoot it, the way I
wanted to cut it, the way I want it done, and.

Speaker 11 (21:24):
And so and this is the first time that you
were able to do that in your whole career.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, how hard is it to find a producer that's
not for lessons and verse? Is a pain in the
ass because you know, I, at least in my experiences
of witnessing. Usually the good cop is the director and
the bad cop is the producer, you know, and they

(21:51):
have to stay on the side. Let you know, the
budget that's running over and this this sort of thing.
I mean, how how easy is it to find or
how hard is it to find one that gives you
complete autonomy Because there were years before I think came
nineteen came out, uh six years before seven seven, not

(22:14):
knowing what the budget for the hurt Locker was. But
I can imagine that however, you pitched it obviously for
that end, for zero dark thirty, that it was pricey
and and you know, of course we're not mentioned the
elephant in the room about you know, are women given
the same amount of trust behind the wheel as a

(22:36):
mail director. We all know that answer is no. So
how did you how did you break how did you
break through to the other side to even this is
a lottery.

Speaker 8 (22:49):
Ticket, it's a lottery ticket. Well, you know, just you
have to be very tenacious and well, the first budget
for hurt Lucker was thirty million, and I ended up
making it for ten.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
So that happened. So don't.

Speaker 8 (23:19):
Budget from thirty to well, that's I don't act and
didn't lose any set pieces either, so so that was
a little tricky but or a little challenging. But the
key there was and what I realized was that the
budget and your creative control are in direct proportion to

(23:40):
one another.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
So that was for that.

Speaker 8 (23:43):
So the lower the budget, more creative control you have
to you were going to sacrifice and compromise creative control
if you want more money. So that's just it's a
very simple calculus. I kind of wrapped my head around
that and went forward with it, and and obviously with
hurt Locker that was that turned out well. And Zero
Dark was a little bit more money, but not I mean,

(24:05):
it wasn't outrage it was but I would be considered
a kind of fairly robust budget, but nothing in terms
of I don't know, one of the more normal big
movies today.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Well okay, because I know that Zero Dark is also
intento on the drama and the dialogue that's just as
rich as an action scene or that sort of thing. Now,
I'm trying to imagine if you were given complete autonomy
to do, you know, say, if you were given a
seventy million dollar budget, or you know, some films of

(24:41):
this nature get one hundred and fifty million dollar budget,
Like what more could you done? Like is there a
sacrifice scene that we didn't know about? Then? Like, okay,
well we only got ten millions, so we'll just use
this firecracker.

Speaker 8 (24:58):
I'll just blow up this town.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Now.

Speaker 8 (25:02):
That's another thing I think, you know, I do when
I can. I work in elephant conservation or some kind
of philanthropy. And I think, you know, the bigger the budgets,
I think, wow, I should be using this money for that,
you know, saving these park rangers in Garamba and the
d r C or something like that. But so, but
but finding a producer that supports you and trusts you,

(25:24):
I mean, that's it's a process. It's a I mean,
I also produce. But in other words, I'm a producer
and director, so I see cost I'm a student and creative.
But but you know, I know, you know, I know,
I know who wins in my in my own personal right.
But but uh yeah, you just you know, but I

(25:45):
think working with as much trust, integrity and respect as
you possibly can, and then I mean with everybody, crew, casts, producers,
et cetera. And then you know, it's usually a you.
I mean, that's sort of what I learned prior to
the hurt Locker and then of course tried to execute
it from that point on.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
So you're you're proven, You're you're you're you're reaffirming what
I've always thought about musicians, which is whenever they have
limited resources and limited budgets, they turn out their most
creative work. And whenever they're just given the entire world,
that's usually the uh, that's the jumping the shark moment

(26:30):
for a lot of our our musicians.

Speaker 8 (26:33):
Well, there's a great quote by Entre Gate. I said,
artist born of restraint and dies of freedom.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, that's very true, is it? And that's quest love suprevium,
Thank you very much.

Speaker 5 (26:52):
I have a question Steve, and then I really want
to hear about Detroit after.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Well, we're going to get to Detroit. I kind of
wanted I get.

Speaker 5 (27:06):
My question is because you mentioned the journalistic nature of
making these movies, So do you have any kind of
background in journalism now?

Speaker 8 (27:15):
But Mark, who wrote all three of them, comes from
investigative journalism, and so that allowed me to kind of
open up open up that idea of being a you know,
putting the viewer in an active relationship with the screen
as opposed to passive. You know that can't consequently again,
the camera's very active, but in other words, sort of

(27:38):
inviting the viewer to be a fly in the wall
in what you're experiencing.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
I'll change you, Lad, you could be Stubbs, Steve Stubbs.

Speaker 5 (27:50):
So I was watching the CNN thing the nineties and
I saw your name as a director on what was
it a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Point? It was a show.

Speaker 7 (28:04):
It was.

Speaker 11 (28:07):
Stet Yeah, Baltimore. Yeah, yeah, that.

Speaker 5 (28:19):
Was somewhat journalistic type thing too.

Speaker 8 (28:22):
Well, well, I started that was sort of where I
began to get confident enough to move, you know, to
be I don't know, create a very I suppose sort
of active and fluid cinematic environment. And then I don't know,
you just kind of get your chops. I mean, it's
got to be like what all of you do? Wait,

(28:42):
what was your first?

Speaker 7 (28:43):
What was your first gig in the film industry? Because Catherine,
you have like actors, producer, writer, director, all these things.

Speaker 11 (28:50):
What was your first?

Speaker 8 (28:51):
Yeah, I'm gonna add some more, you should do whatever. Well,
I started out as a painter, and I was an
artist and or thought of myself as an artist and
moved to New York. I was given this I don't
know this, I guess internship with a Whitney Independent study program.

(29:12):
They gave you a studio. I was living in a
bank vault and on the corner of Down and Read
and Chambers and many many years ago, no no very
pre gentrified off track betting building. And I was downstairs
in this bank fault and Susan Sontag was one of
my advisors. She'd come down and I'd put the work

(29:34):
up on the wall of these stainless and the door.
I mean, I had nowhere to stay. I had a
sleeping bag in the bank fault and i'd sleep in
there and people be gunshots above, and I was like, okay,
I'm safe down here. As long as the door doesn't shut.
The door shots, nobody's going to find me. But but
so she'd I would do these paintings. And then I

(29:56):
realized that art and I love it. Believe me, I still,
you know, I kind of no, no, no, no, no, no,
I mean I still look.

Speaker 7 (30:07):
At it and.

Speaker 8 (30:08):
No, no, it can't be a hobby. I wish it could.
But anyway, so no, it's not relaxing. But but I
realized there's something you know, kind of I don't know
how to put it, but maybe kind of rarefied. You
look at this white on white canvas, which is this
Russian guy, Casmir Malevich, who I love. But but the
point is it, it's, you know, requires or asks of

(30:33):
you a little bit of information to kind of appreciate
it and think this is extraordinary and breakthrough Ormonnai's to
Haystacks or whatever. And so I then I started moving
into film because I thought it crosses all class cultural lines,
like everybody can ex everybody can go to the movies,
and so how do you make how do you work
in a populist medium with an emphasis on content? And

(30:55):
so that's where it started. I did this piece Setup,
and then I ended up doing a graduate degree at
column being I was getting too long of an answer,
and I did this movie called Setup Movie. It was
a short, it was twenty minutes, and it was very violent.
I know there's a thematically, a real breakthrough, and but

(31:20):
what I was interesting to me was why we are
attracted to extreme situations? And and Susan Sontag wrote that
book on photography, and she talked about identifying with the
other or the id you know and your years, so
anyway I have. It's basically a piece that tries to

(31:43):
unpack our attraction to cinematic violence. And it's only twenty
minutes long, sort of non narrative, and then that kind
of propelled me into the motorcycle movie I did with
Willem Dafoe called The Loveless.

Speaker 11 (31:57):
William dug he must be special to work with. Oh,
I mean, oh, he's fabulous.

Speaker 8 (32:03):
In fact, he was doing you know, he used to
be with the Booster Group, and that was back in
the day when you can just go to a performance
and then you go up afterward and you say, hey,
do you want to be in a movie? I mean,
I had just you know, five pennies to make this
film and he's like sure. I said, can you ride
a motorcycle? He said, yes, Well I learned. I learned.

(32:24):
You know, it's good to kind of like research research question,
especially when we ended up No, he didn't fall, He
just ended up going through a hedge and up along
and into in the front door. We had these big
electric glides. Back in the day, there was ghost motorcycles
out on Long Island. I don't know if any of

(32:45):
you and if you were old enough. No, and they
had they had real they had vintage motorcycles. And this
was a film that took place in nineteen fifty nine,
and so I wanted all the motorcycles to be real,
and so they're heavy, and I mean I didn't I
can't drive one. But so that was how the switch happened,

(33:07):
and then I sort of then suddenly I was making film.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
There's what is your attraction to? I mean, I don't
you know, I don't want to use violence, as you
know as the four letter word, but there's definitely that's
an element that's almost a common denominator in each film.
Like I've became aware of you through Blue Steel, as
we mentioned at the top of the show.

Speaker 4 (33:37):
But what is.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
What is it that you want to tell the world
or show the world through all of your films that
you you you direct or you write, like what is
your Because you wrote Blue Steel? Correct, you wrote in directly,
So what what is that? What is why is that
you or way to grip our collars or to get

(34:03):
our attention? Do you use it in a very unusual
You don't. It's not gratuitious as in like, hey, it's
gratu but it's it's almost psychological where you you go
deep into all these characters and you show this dark
place in their soul, which makes me wonder about you,

(34:24):
what's the dark place in your soul?

Speaker 8 (34:30):
Well, we could turn this into a therapy, right, I know.
And I co wrote that with Eric red So and
we co wrote Near Dark together too, But I think
of well, I don't. I suppose it's it goes kind
of go back, goes back to the art days, where

(34:51):
the purpose of art is to agitate for change. And
so I think a film is very kinetic. It's a
very kinetic medium, and and I sort of enjoy the
mechanics of that kind of visceral identification with a story
on the screen. But it has to have content, It

(35:12):
has to have some purpose. There has to be some
you know, the same meaning as to self aggrandizing, I
don't mean it that way, but to have you know,
it has to have some substance. And I think what's
so great about film is it allows you and music
to be a part of something so much bigger than yourself.
And you know, maybe ever so slightly, you can perhaps

(35:35):
make a difference.

Speaker 12 (35:37):
I want to ask you about when you cast your
films and the training that you put your actors through.
Obviously for the hurt Locker there was you know, it
had to be some kind of military training or what
was the regimen for that? And also for Detroit, because
the guys are playing a singing group, what did you
have them do to so that it looks real camera?

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Well?

Speaker 8 (36:02):
Thank you?

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Any story camp Ord? Uh?

Speaker 8 (36:08):
Yeah, there was Motown camp. No we didn't, oh love
no no no no. Well, in terms of hurt Locker, yeah,
they had. They went through a lot of military training,
I mean, and same with Sarah Dark. I had the
benefit of in the case of hurt Locker, there was
some Delta Delta Force individuals that were my tech advisors

(36:31):
and se s and then with zero Dark Navy Steel
Tech advisors and taught them how to you know, how
to move and how you know. The most important thing
I took away from that was don't run. Wait, don't
run to your death. You know how it's very methodical
how these people move. It's really interesting. Like you'll be

(36:51):
coming around a corner and you don't race around it.
You move very slowly and incessantly. It's like they talk
about it, like the trainers would talk about it like water,
you know, the way water moves. It's cadence, doesn't change.
It's just very consistent. It has nothing to do with motown.
But well, I'm I'm somebody, I think who's musically challenged.

(37:16):
In fact, I was. I think, I don't know how
old I was. I did a piano recital at like
one and a half. I don't know, I was very young,
and the teacher hit my hand with the realer I
was doing something wrong, and so I told my parents,
I'll never never do it, never doing that again. So
I started painting. But anyway, so I was extremely lucky

(37:39):
because I'm I'm not conversant in that world and finding
these actors, and I did a lot of improv. I
did never work from the script. I work basically in improv.
Created a situation like okay, you're up against the while
this guy's going to come in, and I needed to
see how they would react in a situation, and then

(38:01):
how they would work together, as you know, musically, and
I think, I you know, I think they just blended.
I don't know, there was just a natural blend and
they kind of and then I don't know, they got
together a lot during the shoot, and and prior in

(38:23):
the casting process, they would get together and really created
a sense of history, and that carried over into the
you know, onto the scene when you do it, do you.

Speaker 12 (38:37):
Have someone in mind, like when you looking at the story,
do you have someone in mind saying, Hey, I think
this actor or this actress would be good for this
role or is that something that totally you let the casting.

Speaker 8 (38:47):
No, Well, I had an amazing casting director, Vicky Thomas,
but I really wanted actors who, in a way didn't
have any provenance because that tele telegraphs to an audience,
even if it's consciously or subconsciously, Oh that person, you know,
you can't die, he's too famous, right, and so immediately

(39:10):
the game is over. You know, there's no tension. So
for that reason and many and and also just I
love the idea of kind of these discoveries. And these
young African American men were just I mean, they were
so giving and so I don't know, they're so talented.
I mean, it was an embarrassment of riches. It was very,

(39:30):
very very hard to cast because for any one part
there were quite a few options.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Well, you did a great job, because I didn't even
recognize uh John Krasinski, Oh yeah, five minutes. I was like,
oh him, and I was waiting for the office.

Speaker 7 (39:48):
And then the young black actors that you picked are
like right now, the up and coming you. I mean,
just off a name you got like you got Ralph
treads Van, you know.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Like in the characters.

Speaker 7 (40:00):
But I mean that they play but and it's dope
to I was. I was thinking, I said, you know,
they're used to being in these dope ensemble class cast
even John Boyega, I don't know if I say his
name Rye perfect Star Wars ensemble cast. So it kind
of worked dope for you because they are used to
making it work for one grid mission, right.

Speaker 8 (40:17):
Yeah, I mean they work. Yeah, they're well first at
working as you know, as a group and as a
kind of an organic body that you know. I mean,
I was just so lucky in Altree Smith and Hayden
and Malcolm and and little Butler.

Speaker 7 (40:32):
I'm glad I never knew his name, but I've been
watching him since he was a child actor.

Speaker 11 (40:35):
He's amazing.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
He's scary. He is even if I see him now
like he's in he's he's on the Goldbergs, right.

Speaker 11 (40:44):
Is he not on the I don't know if he's
on their now. He was in the Revenant, he was
in the Chronicles of Narnia.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah right, okay, I know that, but yeah he's Jesus Christ.

Speaker 11 (40:57):
Can get it's an eyebrow thing.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Even if you mentioned it now, I'm like, all right,
change this ubject. I don't know how the feel when
I see him come on my show and play. I
want to know what is uh your personal creative process, uh,
from going project to project now? I mean the time

(41:21):
distance between zero Dark thirty and the hurt Locker was
two years almost now. I would imagine usually for anyone
else in any other medium, uh, when someone reaches that level,

(41:42):
that summer, that pinnacle of a career and you, of
course making history as the first female director to get
an Oscar, not usually for anyone else that would be like, okay, well,
a period of decompression and you take five years off
to think you're your next move. Like let's take limit

(42:04):
Manuel Miranda for example, Like, I'll be shocked if he
comes up with a follow up to Hamilton in the
next five years. Like, I'll be shocked. I'm doing Jefferson
right right, But yeah, you know you immediately I mean,
for me, that's that's almost lightning fast of how you

(42:25):
just went on to the next project like it was nothing.
You didn't let it freeze you up or anything. But
I want to know, you know, do you have a
kind of a decompression resting period that lets you back
at zero so that you can go to the next product?
And then what's your research into Like as far as

(42:48):
you deciding Okay, this is what I want to do next,
and then you know, making sure that you and your
screenwriter are on point with each other, and then mapping
out the direction and all the things that go with
creating a film, like what is your creative process and
in relationship, especially with Detroit, the research you had to
do and the books you had to read and all

(43:10):
those things.

Speaker 8 (43:11):
Yeah, the research on Detroit was massive. What happened was
Mark came to me with this story. And this was
early twenty fifteen and right about the time of the
Michael Brown acquittal, and I it was, you know, kind

(43:34):
of obviously a politically emotionally charged time. And he told
me this story and I said, you know, this is
a story that needs to get out there. You know,
it's very important in my opinion, and and you know,
maybe in some small way it can contribute to a
conversation on a bigger scale. And then I started doing

(43:59):
homework on it and and and in fact, I sent
down I sat down with Congressman Conyers, who's in the movie,
but in Detroit, and he kind of looked at me
and said, okay, what are you What are you doing?
You know what kind of movie you're doing in Detroit?
Said well, I'm doing a story about the Algiers Motel.
And he said, that's an execution. And and so I

(44:22):
realized that there's you know, there's a lot of obviously
a lot of history, even though it's fifty years ago.
And then the you know what happened with Michael Brown
and on and on and this time and this time
it felt very timely, and it felt like this might be,

(44:43):
you know, I don't know, worth be incredibly moving to
to dig into. And at the more research I did,
the more homework we did, and trying to make it
as real and authentic as possible.

Speaker 7 (44:58):
And and.

Speaker 8 (45:01):
It was very emotional piece. It was very emotionally charged
shooting it as well.

Speaker 11 (45:06):
Do you know, did you have any reservations about doing this?

Speaker 7 (45:09):
Because I was reading the article that doctor Dyson wrote
on you, and I remember the part where he one
of the people in Detroit, because you guys are walking
around Detroit, and he says, like, what is this is?

Speaker 10 (45:19):
This?

Speaker 7 (45:19):
Is this white woman gonna know about us and this
story that we have? Like, did you personally have to
have a moment and say, can I do this?

Speaker 11 (45:26):
Should I do this?

Speaker 8 (45:27):
Absolutely? I mean I thought, and I think I still think.
You know, am I the perfect person to make this movie?
Absolutely not. On the other hand, you know, I have
this opportunity. I can get this. You know, I can't
get this story out there, and and you know, take
advantage of that in the hope that again it maybe

(45:49):
leads to a dialogue or more stories like this coming out.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
And so.

Speaker 8 (45:56):
That was that was the impetus behind.

Speaker 12 (45:58):
It, when you say you're not the perfect person and
if not you, then who, like who would if you
were producing Detroit?

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Who would you get to direct it? Yeah?

Speaker 8 (46:08):
I mean she'd be amazing exactly so, but you know,
it kind of washed up on my beach and so
sort of like, all right, do I I don't know?
You know, that was that took a There was a
moment there when I was trying to kind of grapple
with that.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
And it's weird because I even when I saw the
screening of it, I did not know that the story
even happened. And you know, I'd like to think that
anything musically related, like I'm on top of I mean,
I knew of Riots being in Detroit, and I knew

(46:51):
I've heard several interviews of why Motown had left. You know,
I simply thought it was because, Okay, well, Dinah Ross
wanted to meet movies and so let's go out there.
I had no idea that you know, Detroit was and
that intense of a disarray, and so the first thing

(47:11):
I thought was like, well, why wasn't this I think
Bill was the first person I called about this, and
he looked at up and it's like, yo, yeah, it
was real, And you know, he looked at he researched
it online, like I couldn't believe that, because the thing is,
it's not because you didn't do a biopic about the dramatics.

(47:34):
More or less, the dramatics just happened to be at
the wrong place at the wrong time, and you captured it.
And even then I was like, wow, Like the four
or five times that I've seen the Dramatics. I mean,
that would be like if I met Rodney King and
he never told me about April, you know what I mean? Right?

Speaker 4 (48:02):
But anyway, Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
I kept thinking, like on the way home, I was like,
wait a minute, man, I've been at least in the
four or five times I've been in the presence of
the Dramatics in my career, like, it's at least been
accumulated three to four hours. I'm like, man, they didn't
mentioned this once, like.

Speaker 11 (48:22):
I maybe it wasn't the worst thing that happened to them.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Well, here's the funny thing. Yeah, here's the funny thing.
Because I've talked about violent situations that they've been in
in the Snoop's second source cover when his solo album
comes out in nineteen ninety three, and Dreamhampton's sort of

(48:45):
trailing them during the making of Doggie Style, there was
maybe an exchange of gunfire between the van that the
Dramatics were in and maybe the family of that Remember
Snoop had an incident. Yeah, Philip, I don't want to

(49:09):
just reduce him to Yeah, how did you remember that?

Speaker 4 (49:17):
Well?

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah, I mean the article came out twenty five years ago.
But I remember the Dramatics being in that situation. And
then when Slim Village told me a story uh sort
of similar that, it was like a minor fender bender,
Like they were with some members of the Dramatics and
DJ Dees told me like, you know, like they were
about to get into a violent situation. I was thinking, like, man,

(49:39):
the Dramatics are the most unlucky group on earth.

Speaker 5 (49:42):
And yeah, they're just like the Drama.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
There. Yeah, but and talking to them about those situations, yeah, man,
well it was intense that day. But like they never said.

Speaker 9 (50:07):
To me, they just.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
I just That's the first thing. I was like, why
did they not tell me about nineteen sixty seven? Like
why did I not know this even in the film.
I kept asking Half the time. I was like I
am dbing, like wait a minute, is this Dramatics Dramatics that? Yeah, yeah,
the Dramatics. I know what she sees what you And
then when they started singing it, then whoever is running

(50:32):
the I don't know if you told them not to
tell me or whatever, that you just wanted me to
see it raw and that sort of thing. So I
went back to him, I'm like, yo, is this story real?
Or and he said just watch it, you know, So
half the time I was just like trying to follow effects, and.

Speaker 5 (50:52):
Yeah, it's just a long story. They're probably so sick
of talent. It's like, probably takes two hours to tell
the story.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah, of a movie rather, you know. And I don't
want to get into spoilers, so I'm trying to figure
out a way to talk about the film without getting
into specifics so as to not ruin it for the listener.
But I mean, I will say that in this film

(51:22):
is like what two hours and twenty yeah, yeah, two
hours and twenty minutes. I mean you spend a great
deal in the center of the film, thirty five to
forty minutes.

Speaker 8 (51:38):
Oh, probably a little bit more maybe, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Yeah, fifty minutes, almost an hour on this one. It's
it's almost like it turns into a play because you're
literally in this room during the torture scene whatever you
want to the interrogation, torture, death game scene for an
hour with just one camera and.

Speaker 11 (52:06):
And how many people in that room.

Speaker 8 (52:10):
In the hallway, Yeah, in the hallway there were about.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Nine and and nine and four cops dependent on the
army guys, and.

Speaker 8 (52:18):
Exactly like three three Detroit police and one National Guard.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
It's us. It's this almost the movie stops and then
it goes into meta mood inside of itself and then
starts all over again with this torture scene.

Speaker 11 (52:36):
And uh, sounds like another oscar for Catherine.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
I just and it's weird because even when you and
I were talking, because I mean, it's no secret, like
you know, the roots worked on the song at the end.
I mean, there is two ways to go with the
direction of that song because with films that intense, and

(53:06):
when it's time for the credits, you need you need
a moment to breathe the process what you just saw.

Speaker 7 (53:16):
That's what Catherine was saying about the song earlier, right
you were breaking down.

Speaker 8 (53:19):
Is not just a song, yeah, I mean it also
there's you know, it's so emotional that song. I think
it's phenomenal, and it also shifts time periods, you know,
takes you from the sixties to now back to the sixties,
and I think it's a good release for the kind
of anger that that one might feel.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
We wrote the song it ain't fair, and I wanted
to give the listener release at the end, but I
also remembered that I was mad as fuck at just
angry as shit, and I want it to convey all

(54:01):
those things in that song, the.

Speaker 11 (54:05):
Movie or just period, you know what I I felt.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
I had a long conversation, uh with the and seeing
the film twice. Uh, I kind of had a post
viewing conversation, uh with the people I was with and
kind of here on both sides because you know, it's
with white and black people and it's weird. The white
people that saw the film with me were like, Okay,

(54:33):
you know, I have to admit that it took this
film for me to really truly understand black lives matter.

Speaker 11 (54:43):
Jesus, and this.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Person is a liberal Jesus but the worst. Sorry, but
that's it's this person's a liberal. But it's it's sort
of like, well, I hear what you're saying, but it's
almost as if this film really allows you. Yeah, this
film really allows you to put yourself in that person's shoes,
because this is one thing to just watch the news

(55:04):
thing and there's always the thing in the back of
your mind like okay, uh the brother, the brother in Minnesota, Uh,
where you know I still you know liberals that might say, okay, okay,
what really happened, Okay, did you you right exactly on

(55:25):
the facts that comings means that you're giving the benefit
of the doubt, that that we never fucking get right.
And it was like, as we were watching the film,
I kept watching the energy of the room and the
white side was sort of like, what's going on here?
This is what we've been trying to tell you.

Speaker 11 (55:46):
And awakening.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
I mean, it's it's it's real, and it's you know.
I kind of explained to them that yeah, like none
of us, none of us. And the thing that it
hit home to me was that again and with with
the dramatics and what they went through. Not trying to
spoil it, but I was even like, wow, like how
do you even go on continue as a group or

(56:12):
function with your life after this?

Speaker 11 (56:15):
What was the album they made after?

Speaker 5 (56:18):
What?

Speaker 1 (56:20):
Yeah? But it's like how do you go on?

Speaker 3 (56:22):
And so it was.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
You know, I mean, tears were shed and there were
all sides of it, because even even on the black
side of things, they were just like yo, man, that's no,
they're they're there. I Mean I've had arguments of intense
levels with you know, well you know why they stand

(56:49):
up for themselves and be like yo, fuck y'all. And
you know, and I'm just like, dude, when you're I
always call this the price is right syndrome. The prices
right syndrome is that when you're why ching the prices
right in the comfort of your home, you know, you
know that, yeah, you know that Turtle wat Turtle is
eight ninety nine, you know. But when you're when you're

(57:11):
on the prices right, it's like a thousand. It's like
you always know the answers when it's not when you're
not there. And I've been, okay, I've been in situations
and this is the thing, because I'm sure that you
you've definitely been in a situation frontal Bill Bill come

(57:35):
from Indiana's probably definitely lie. He has been in a
situation where I mean, even today, I mean I'll stay
with all casual iness that you know, maybe my my
average of getting stopped, you know, six times of years,
like I expect every January, okay, and I think about
it a lot, like, wow, I'm gonna have six six

(57:55):
runnings with and still the point where I gotta prepared,
like I keep extra lego hearts in the car what
you give them out to cor No three times like,
you know, because if I want to go out and
be comfortable and not have to take selfies, I wear
a hood, I break my hair, I wear dark glasses.

(58:17):
It buys me ten seconds of Yeah, I know you're
looking like a mirror. You're not ever you, But yes
it works. Sometimes I can sneak in movies and I'm cool.
But when that shit happens, put on jazz music.

Speaker 11 (58:30):
Yeah, no, for real, do not turn your head to
look back.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
You're you're programmed. I mean you can even be like,
all right, fuck it, I'm down for the cars and
Queen Latifa, your way out that car. But then it'll
just be like in Supreme, I set it off, was
set off? I got it? Or it's like, you know,
the second they see, wait a minute, I gotta stop
by ic ic e, I gotta stop by ice ice. Yeah,

(58:59):
this summer in California, what is that immigration?

Speaker 11 (59:04):
Why they stop?

Speaker 1 (59:06):
I was? I was, we were, we were driving hudriving.
I was being driven from my gig in uh San Diego,
which has a lot of activity of fence jump and whatnot,
Like they have the little signs of families like running
the border, like be whare the you know, like you

(59:26):
see deer warning. Well they have signs of like up
like a shadow. It's like a shadow, a shadow of
four family members running. And the baby got a little
teddy bear. I'm like, why they have a blanket and
teddy bear?

Speaker 7 (59:39):
Like they think you're stashing the family Mexicans in your
black suburban.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Well they stopped. They stopped my driver, and you know,
I was asleep, but she told me like, you know,
well they stopped us, and I said, what happened. She's like, well,
you know, I'm driving my client from his concert. And
they said, well who's your client? So a question with
love from the roots. And they were kind of like
like okay, likely story, female driver, blonde, and so they

(01:00:06):
made her roll down. Now you sleep. You know, yeah
I was, but no, I'm saying that when he saw
he's like, oh yeah, that is him. She's like, oh yeah,
they looked at your your your lego was like oh
that is him and rolled it up. I mean, I'm
not that happens a lot. I just don't tweet about

(01:00:29):
our Instagram about it every time I get stopped. But
my whole point, what was my point was that the
conversation of my whole the conversation that this movie brought

(01:00:53):
on after we saw it was me having explained that, yes,
even in my privilege, since you wait, that even I'm
susceptible to to that sort of treatment, and it still happens. Yeah,
but sometimes you still got to convince people of that
because they just think because you're on television or that

(01:01:15):
you got some dollars, that you're amused, and you're not.
You're so not. And so you know, I wanted to
My whole point of the song was I wanted to
make a song that really speaks to liberals who in

(01:01:39):
the back of their mind always have that conversation of
a little tinge of doubt. Uh, and for people that
just sort of sit on the sidelines, because even when
like you know, I have parents that made you watch
Eyes on the Prize, you know, sit down, yes, And

(01:02:03):
the thing and the thing is is that, Uh, whenever
I watch these documentaries, the people that I always question
the most aren't those that are are committing the injustice,
is those that are on the sidelines just watching.

Speaker 12 (01:02:19):
It's like that, James Boldencourt, is a thin line between
what is it a witness and a participant?

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Yes, you know, it's very thin. It's like I almost
have more hate for the witness that knows and won't
at least acknowledge it at least and that's what we're
going through now. It's like, oh God, please acknowledge it.
And so uh In getting BELOWD to sing the song,

(01:02:45):
yes you know that already because I played it for you,
and getting BLOWD to sing the song, blows really the
only singer that I could think of today that just

(01:03:06):
encompasses everything that this ending was supposed to be. Gentle
as a lamb, but ferocious as a lion. And it's
a seven minute song which I let him go back
shit crazy sometimes. Yeah, absolutely everything. There's even a point

(01:03:28):
where he threw down the microphone.

Speaker 11 (01:03:32):
Yeah, what did you feel?

Speaker 7 (01:03:33):
The friend?

Speaker 8 (01:03:33):
Phenomenal? Phenomenal And you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Know, it was kind of weird at the time because
usually when you get quote the credits song, that usually
means that there might be a chance that you could
get an oscar, usually for films of this nature glory. Yes,
if this song is in the credits, then that means
it's different Oscar. Yeah, And usually it's like, man, okay,

(01:03:59):
let's get that big name and let's you know, let's
let's go for it. But I mean, at the end
of the day, it's like I had to go with
my conviction and go with be right.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
Sorry but not really.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Yeah, you just you. I had to go with what
I felt was the right person that would really grasp
your attention.

Speaker 5 (01:04:32):
He would do it, and uh, this was that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
And I'm realizing that I've just spoken for the last.

Speaker 11 (01:04:42):
I just wanted to ask Catherine.

Speaker 7 (01:04:43):
So in the process of figuring out this song, this
has to be huge, just has to emote, has to
do this.

Speaker 11 (01:04:49):
Why a mirror or the roots are how was that called?

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Well?

Speaker 8 (01:04:53):
I just I love everything that he does, so and
I just thought it had to it had the right
I I don't know, the right emotional grabby toss and
for this piece. I mean, and when he saw the
movie and then we talked, it was just like I
was perfect.

Speaker 12 (01:05:12):
Before though You've done that, like you did that with
in Strange Days, with skunkan Nazi, with the last Like
so you I've seen you do it. You know, you
take like a kind of an unusual band or an
unlikely choice and you know do it. At the end,
I thought that was dope.

Speaker 8 (01:05:24):
Too, oh good. I just yeah, it just seemed like
a perfect a perfect fit.

Speaker 11 (01:05:29):
Strange Days was my movie, Juliette.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Oh my god, yeah, you're the good for that reference.
I forgot about skunking all right, Well it just hit
me before I went on that fifteen minute. I remember
what My initial question was, why did you want to

(01:05:55):
do the joy? Now I'm like, but you're you're you're
operation level. The way you shot the film, did you
use stock film? Like I don't know how to describe it.
It almost feels like she that king died it. Oh yeah,
she made it look vintage, like shooting get down.

Speaker 11 (01:06:17):
They did it first.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
Everybody, you just thing to bring up here.

Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
Even I know that.

Speaker 11 (01:06:30):
Okay, so when the breaks, I don't know, to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Get that Detroit in fact, just get that in Detroit.
Yeah it was I mean, what was I guess my
correcting that you use like certain we.

Speaker 8 (01:06:47):
Use lenses from the period and and yet digital cameras
and it was like maybe two weeks before we were
going to start shooting. They made it. They made it
possible to adapt those lenses to these new digital cameras,
which are actually a pretty small and fairly light, which
gives you that sort of more nimble approach. But the

(01:07:08):
vintage just gives the patina of of it gives a
patina period. And then I also intercut it with some
documentary footage that you know, so it kind of I
don't know it co existed, or I thought it co
existed fairly well to kind of give you this scope
and feel and authenticity of the time, and that was

(01:07:31):
that was kind of critical to me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Now I want to ask you about Will Poulter. Yeah,
I'll go out there right now. I'll say that he'll
I'll be shocked if he doesn't get nominated for Best
I don't know if he's supporting. Would he be supporting
or would he is he Maine? Wouldn't you submit those

(01:07:53):
names or does the company submit those names?

Speaker 8 (01:07:56):
Oh well, we haven't even talked about it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
I feel like if you submit him for Best Supporting Actor,
he will win. But his level of evil is and
the thing is, I know he's the opposite of that
because I had to the person that I saw the
movie with the first time. She was all disheveled because

(01:08:21):
you know of what he represented in his other films,
and he's such a gentle voice those things. So when
you are portraying something that intense, when you yelled cut.
Is it like okay, where's my iPhone at? And you know, okay,

(01:08:42):
what's on on television in the game, and okay, order
me a pizza? Okay, it's I know that one of
them had to go through some sort of therapy or
some sort of process to get rid of that character.

Speaker 8 (01:09:03):
Well, I mean when when I would say cut, First
of all, he never lost his accent. He was in
that accent for the movie twenty four to seven during
the shoot, and in fact I prove off and on yes.
And but when I would say cut, I would sometimes
look whereas Will and I'd see him out on the
porch and his head would be in his hands. I mean,

(01:09:24):
it was really really hard for him, and as it
was for everybody, but I mean it was extremely difficult
for him.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Like were they able to interact with each other?

Speaker 7 (01:09:34):
Oh yeah, camera, Oh yeah, yeah, because even like Tarantino
said for Jango that like he had to do some
special things with the cast, you know, in between and
make sure everybody was cool because it was soultent.

Speaker 8 (01:09:46):
Yeah, you know, yeah, you have to. I mean I
just and I had a conversation with everybody going into
this film. I said, you know, trying to give them,
you know, a sense of what the lay of the
land might be and how you know how at the
end of the day, they're going to be asked to
talk about this movie and are they comfortable talking about this?
Are you comfortable performing this? You know, yes, this really happened,

(01:10:07):
but that doesn't necessarily make it any easier. And so
having that conversation, they were very prepared, or I felt
that they were pretty prepared going in.

Speaker 12 (01:10:18):
Did you have to do anything in terms of making
sure you talk about things that do to make them comfortable?
Did you have to do things to make them uncomfortable?

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
At times? I was. It reminded me of Spike Lee
in the school days. Yeah, Spike Lee school days. He
would say in private Ryan where he would.

Speaker 12 (01:10:38):
Yeah, Stephen. He made all the guys that were going
to get private Ryan, they all had to do like
pt and all this crazy physical stuff. But Matt Damon
didn't do any of it. So like they they really
had that contempt for him, right we risk and I
ask or say, this, motherfucker, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Like they've really had that. So did you have to
do anything stuff like that?

Speaker 8 (01:10:57):
Early early in the shoot, they kind of kept each
group kept to themselves just for that reason because if
they were too friendly, it might be too difficult. And
then when they became more comfortable and more relaxed with it,
and I felt, I think felt more confident that they
were in their character and they really understood their character
than they were very close with each other. But it's

(01:11:20):
a full on commitment. I mean something like this.

Speaker 7 (01:11:22):
Obviously, who's the technical advisor for the nuances of like
the time how you know this is Detroit? Were talking
about black folks, the slang, just the just make it
making it authentic.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Did you shoot it on location or yeah?

Speaker 11 (01:11:37):
Or that too?

Speaker 8 (01:11:38):
Well, we shot some of it in Detroit. Unfortunately, about
a year before we started we went there where we
wanted to shoot, they had disbanded their incentives program, so
I needed to go to Boston to save money. Okay,
because they give they have a rebate of you know,
twenty five percent above and below the line. And Detroit,
or rather Michigan used to but in their infinite wisdom,

(01:12:00):
they disbanded it.

Speaker 12 (01:12:03):
Detroit Detroit, Yeah, us, they did that too. North Carolina
did that too. Like we shot iron Man three and
then was like nah, we ain't doing that no more.

Speaker 8 (01:12:11):
Yeah, and and you know it's crazy because if there
was ever a city that could use this tremendous amount
of revenue anyway that Yeah, So no, but we shot
so we shot a lot of it in Boston.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
How many because there are a lot of exterior scenes. Yeah,
how many blocks would you have to you know, transform
to just to get it to look like that at least?
How many?

Speaker 8 (01:12:44):
Actually not as much as you would think. I mean,
it's fairly contained. I had an amazing production designer, Jeremy Hindle,
who also did Sarah Dark and and yeah, I mean
keeping it somewhat contained. And that's another benefit of a
sort of documentary style. It's it you know, there isn't
these big wide crane shots. I don't use cranes, you know,

(01:13:05):
so you don't you know, you're just right here, you're
in the car, or you're you know, over the back
of somebody. So it's very it's intimate. And that actually
is a benefit if you you know, don't have like
giant or real estate in which to work with.

Speaker 11 (01:13:24):
So is that so did the same thing go for
the costume and wardrobe?

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
Is it? The say?

Speaker 11 (01:13:29):
Is it the same people from the other movies or
did you have a little special for that.

Speaker 8 (01:13:32):
No, I used this wonderful woman fran scene for wardrobe,
and she was just really I don't know, she's just
extraordinary with I mean she got fabric from the period.
She would like travel all over the country for fabric
and then create these and then build these suits, and
I mean everything was just meticulous, just meticulous, And so

(01:13:56):
that was you We're really lucky to find those kind
of artisans who who did that. But yeah, we were
a lot of research and try the language. I mean
there's a lot. I spent time with Melvin Dysmus, who
John Boyega played, and a little bit of time with
Larry the Dramatics, the man from the Dramatics, and he's

(01:14:19):
it's hard for me to talk about this even to
this day. You know, he's really I would think so
and yeah, and then spend time with Julie, who was
on the set every day with me, who the real
that Julie played by Hannah Murray in the film, and

(01:14:39):
and and she you know, she had to relive it
and and and she just you know, I mean sometimes
I would do a take and I'd be I look
over my shoulder, and you know, would just be awful
and I think, you know, it can't have been like that,
and she'd say was worse.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Dang, we we know. Well in the book in history
is shown what the end result of the court case was. Uh,
nobody in the various of course, in the various in
the various lawsuits that that have occurred throughout the years

(01:15:21):
of it, or the attempts to reopen the case. But
always wondered if those two characters, in particular, the two
white women that were caught up, did they ever have
their own lawsuit or their own civil suit?

Speaker 8 (01:15:35):
And you know, not that I'm aware of, not that
I'm aware of, But no, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Yeah, because I looked all over the internet to see
could they at least get justice and.

Speaker 11 (01:15:48):
Not they were they in the hotel with the guys?

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
Yes, yeah, the real crime, The real crime was that
they were in Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:16:06):
Yeah, but that's the test, like even if white women
can't get it's like yeah lost calls, bro, yeah if yeah, isn't.

Speaker 7 (01:16:14):
There a display about this in the New Smithsonian. I
don't know if you if you heard about the Detroit
riots or did you guys you have to go no.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
No, no other one in d C. Yeah, yeah, there
there's uh, you know there there's a riot section every decade.
It's a very it's a very lovely and beautiful display
of all the riots that America that is so sad,

(01:16:41):
it's so hilarious. Yeah, god, I mean it goes from uh,
Black Wall Street in Oklahoma and right, here's you know,
in Memphis, and here's Detroit and here's Los Angeles. Yeah,
it's like they have extra room for the future one that.

Speaker 8 (01:17:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 11 (01:17:04):
But it's funny because it brings a question.

Speaker 7 (01:17:07):
It brings a question about riots and what do you
think made the Detroit riots stand out from what else?

Speaker 11 (01:17:12):
What had happened?

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
Why could they recover? Like what do you in your research?
I feel as though this riot currently has Detroit where
they are now? Like when I think of Detroit, I
think of a CPS owned black and write desolate. Yeah,
it's the American London. Yeah, and it's why do you

(01:17:38):
think that they have yet to recover? And the importance
of you releasing this film on the fiftieth anniversary of
those riots on August fourth, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 8 (01:17:49):
Well, I think that's you know, that's a that's a
really good question. I mean, I I don't know. I
mean I think of the city as both equal parts resilient,
and certainly the people I see I meet, they're really resilient.
But at the same time, it's still a city that's
that's been a war zone and it hasn't really recovered

(01:18:12):
from the war zone, and that's you know, so it's
kind of this weird dichotomy. And and I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
Yeah, I guess sometimes.

Speaker 8 (01:18:27):
I wish, I know, not.

Speaker 11 (01:18:31):
To put you on the spot, but I just I'm curious.

Speaker 7 (01:18:33):
I got to ask, do you feel like, because of
this movie and the subject matter and everything else, that
there should be is there a relationship with Detroit? I mean,
I know you said you didn't you didn't shoot there,
but a relationship in a way of like, you know
that since they have the water issue, they have so
many issues.

Speaker 11 (01:18:48):
Like it's not meant like, is there like a charitable relationship?
Do you ever think about it?

Speaker 8 (01:18:54):
I think so, yes, they have seen it. We did
a few screens and now we're going there for a
premiere and we did shoot therefore, you know, maybe five
six days, so we did shoot something there.

Speaker 11 (01:19:05):
So they got a little bit of the money from the.

Speaker 8 (01:19:06):
Absolutely absolutely, and I think you know, I mean, I mean,
this is definitely a part of their past and and
and so you know, but I think, I don't know.
It speaks both to a kind of strength in that
I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of
there's a huge art artist community there now and then

(01:19:30):
that's kind of exciting and thriving. And yet at the
same time, I mean, this tragedy is is imprinted, you know,
in the DNA of the city. And and yet I
mean again there's a tremendous amount of anger that precipitated it.
But unlike let's say the Rodney King, right, I mean
that that had a very specific flash point, the La riots,

(01:19:54):
whereas this was attritional.

Speaker 7 (01:19:55):
I mean, this was right because it wasn't one bit
off the riot just like Instice and people were fed up, exactly.

Speaker 8 (01:20:01):
And so you know, justice is the the conversation, you know, Jacob, Yeah, exactly.
And you know, you can't heal until this you're hurt,
you know, So maybe there's a a dialogue that can
start in Detroit.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
And how many screens have you done in Detroit?

Speaker 8 (01:20:22):
And what's the general how many screenings we did well,
we did a screening for the chief of police there.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
Oh wow, oh boy, how did that go?

Speaker 8 (01:20:36):
He wants it to be required viewing for every member
of law enforcement. Seriously, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
I got a response.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
That's great time.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
That's crazy to me. That was the last thing I
was going to expect. Detroit is about to be the
police eyes on the price. It's like required.

Speaker 12 (01:21:09):
It's like the video to make you watch exactly pizza
or something your train and enjoy it.

Speaker 11 (01:21:15):
Wow, just clean the water, I know, right, just clean.

Speaker 8 (01:21:21):
So I think it's you know, is there is there
a way forward? I mean certainly, And we've screened it
for some faith based groups, and you know, we're trying
to get it out there, and of course it comes
out nationwide, so you know, maybe maybe you know it
can be of some help open dialogue, dialogue exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
So once this is like when you put your baby
away and you go to the premiere and you do
the last press junket and I'm sure that movie season
is over after February Oscar time, At what point do
you start researching your next project? Like do you overlap

(01:22:08):
or are you going to swim in Hawaii for two
weeks and just like you know, do you watch friends
on TBS.

Speaker 4 (01:22:18):
Like watches Fred the TBS.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
Change the channel, dude, It's like I've fallen down many
a friend's rabbit hole, Like.

Speaker 12 (01:22:32):
My rabbit hole is American Ninja Warrior's supposed to be
family guy.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
So for you, like, are you thinking about the next project?

Speaker 7 (01:22:44):
No?

Speaker 8 (01:22:44):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
Yeah, but we're not acting like you. I mean, you've
done you Your average is a year and a half
to two years between films, So it's like I imagine
that you least have to research six to seven months
before you're like, all right, let's green like this.

Speaker 11 (01:23:05):
But just got to be exhausted though right now. But
even had the energy.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
But this is also your production company, correct, Like is this?

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (01:23:12):
I worked with them with Anna Perna, who are fabulous
on zero Dark thirty and so so that was a
good kind of you know, continuity there. But yeah, I
don't know, this was a few years actually, kind of
five years from release to release, so it's been.

Speaker 11 (01:23:30):
A little while.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
So you're saying that maybe twenty twenty two. Can you
go that long? Because again, if you're not popcorn budget,
you know, yeah, two hundred and fifty million, I mean
I can imagine that the light bill has to be
paid and stuff like that, So it would be whoviy

(01:23:55):
you at least know what the plan is for twenty nineteen.

Speaker 8 (01:23:58):
It would if you have any story, I'm open.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
Would you would you go out of wait? Let me
just ask, would you ever go off type and just
do romantic? Yeah? Like a Froffy Yeah you've got mail
part two?

Speaker 8 (01:24:21):
Wow, John.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Version of a romantic A man and his dog?

Speaker 12 (01:24:32):
How do you you know when you're between projects? Like financially?
I mean, how do you make that work?

Speaker 8 (01:24:38):
In terms of I do commercials?

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Wait?

Speaker 11 (01:24:41):
Are y'all saying that Catherine go broke in between projects?

Speaker 5 (01:24:43):
Because I'm real.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
Artists, Real artists have to keep jobs. I have nineteen Yes,
this is I have nineteen jobs. Yeah, I got one job.
One job does not pay me to pay you. One
of the job does not baby enough to pay you, guys.
I got it. I gotta paid this fascinating. So commercials,

(01:25:06):
that's like you do you do those kind of in
your I do? And are you uh?

Speaker 11 (01:25:12):
Do you uh a different name?

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
Alan Smith?

Speaker 7 (01:25:16):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
No, but so you don't do like the hinds kept up?
Catchup commercial Japanese commercials like.

Speaker 8 (01:25:22):
I haven't done those, but it's I don't know, it's
interesting because that's where I can kind of maybe check
out of content a little bit and just look at
it from an equipment and tech technical standpoint, you know,
just the mechanics of film.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
I figured that's harder though, because you have to tell
a story in thirty seconds, which you specifically I don't
know if it's like the level of your commercials, are
you know, Mercedes or classy Curl like would you says
I'm sorry. I was watching the Soul Train episode before
I got here, so in my head, I'm sorry. I Uh.

(01:26:07):
What I'm saying is when you do commercials, is it
harder to make an impact or or tell the story
in thirty seconds to a minute however long the commercial is,
than it is to tell a story in which you
have complete control of I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
I like the.

Speaker 8 (01:26:29):
I kind of like the challenge of you know, like
thirty seconds or a minute. You know you're just I mean,
it's a it's it's a deep dive.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
You give an example of a commercial that you've done
that we've all seen, but it's a different part of
your brain, right.

Speaker 8 (01:26:41):
It's a different part of your brain.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
I look at them.

Speaker 4 (01:26:43):
When I do commercials, it's like one thing, and when
you do creative things, totally different things.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, but it's hard. He is who
it's it's but it's it's hard. It's not my version
of the commercial the sandwiches. Yeah, when they ask to
do seven second stingers. So if there's a new bit,
you know, sidewalk movies, and they need usually like Mark Elliott.

Speaker 11 (01:27:11):
Yeah, but that's not because that's where you come from.
You do come from long form, but people come from.

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
The song I submitted to her film is seven minutes
like three minutes, because I knew he has to simmer
and cook. He's not microwave, you know, but at fallon,
you got to have a catchy ass jingle in seven seconds.

Speaker 7 (01:27:33):
In radio, you're supposed to talk for thirty seconds, sometimes
in a minute, and.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
But sometimes you have a script and you know, you
get into a rhythm of how's your day or fifty
and this is Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:27:50):
The guy who did it was similar what Catherine was saying.
The guy that did the I was in an interview.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
With the guy that did the Windows startup music.

Speaker 12 (01:28:00):
Right, and he was saying how that was like once
he got into that, like he had to do God,
have a many revisions until they finally got it. But
he said, like once he was so used to working
in like that little five or six seconds. Once he
sat down to write a song that felt like that universe.

Speaker 4 (01:28:17):
That's my life.

Speaker 6 (01:28:18):
Like I can't write a three and a half minute
song anymore. I can write, I can write, I can
crush a minute. But yeah, that's right because this street
your songs are like ninety seconds.

Speaker 4 (01:28:26):
Yeah, at the most.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Street, I'm the firse chorus.

Speaker 4 (01:28:32):
Cat like, I don't do bridges anymore.

Speaker 11 (01:28:35):
Electric company, get.

Speaker 4 (01:28:36):
Right to the point.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
I see, I see.

Speaker 4 (01:28:39):
Anyway, that's not what we're talking about, Cat biglow.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Question.

Speaker 4 (01:28:43):
Interesting since I'm talking uh.

Speaker 6 (01:28:47):
My fifteen year old we would be super pissed if
you didn't bring up Point Break conversation. Uh part of
me once like remember when you made a point break
because it's awesome, but like like did you have any
concept of the impact that movie would have? And like
that we were talking about, like uh think like TBS friends,
like if comes on the television, I can't sat like wait,

(01:29:08):
I'm done for the next hour and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
Can I add on to that?

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
Yes? Please, you're the boss?

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
Are you even Catherine? Are you even aware of this
new uh embracing of point break from millennials? Like for
some reason, usually on weekends I will go to a
movie theater and see a throwback film, like there'll some
art house film, will you know? So like, and what's
weird is that there's a new culture of this generation

(01:29:38):
that looks at intense drama films as comedies. And when
I saw a point Break at the Nighthawk, like three
months ago, any line that Keanu Reeves said.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
Reeves, I mean, there's so many, like the whole thing
is amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
But I realized he was this most Keanu in point
where he could be.

Speaker 11 (01:30:02):
He was free. It was like I could be mean.

Speaker 1 (01:30:05):
So what was it like in your head? Did you
have any idea that twenty five years from now? Like, dude,
that voice like it's the best I'd like, whoa, Like
how do you? How do you direct that film?

Speaker 13 (01:30:19):
Where?

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
But he's Californian because I know a lot of dudes
that talk like that in California. So it's almost like,
like what's going on in your head as he's acting,
Like you're just like that's Ted from Excellent. Well that
was you know that you could be honest? No, no,
it was because I see you trying to the words.

Speaker 8 (01:30:40):
It was actually a real challenge to get the movie
made with with somebody who had hadn't didn't have that kind.

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
Of you know, action spirit, no actions.

Speaker 4 (01:30:52):
Well wrong word.

Speaker 8 (01:30:58):
And coming from Phil and Ted's you know, you're like, okay,
well now how can he You know, I was just
trying to process that and I I don't know, I
just I thought.

Speaker 1 (01:31:08):
He was was it salt? No?

Speaker 8 (01:31:10):
No?

Speaker 7 (01:31:10):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:31:10):
Did you say I want that guy?

Speaker 8 (01:31:12):
I want that guy?

Speaker 9 (01:31:13):
And what did they?

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
What did Hollywood say? What did the producers say? Well?

Speaker 8 (01:31:18):
No, because because I know, it's just it's just the
way that how can I say it? I mean, I
was just convinced that he'd be perfect for this part.
He was Johnny Utah, that was the name of the
piece originally. And and and then I finally found a

(01:31:38):
producer who, again just like hurt Locker, I was like okay, like,
well we'll take a flyer and I said yes. So
I was really lucky.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
We are you surprised that the sus of it?

Speaker 13 (01:31:51):
Yeah, and when you saw the remake I did see it, Okayan, But.

Speaker 8 (01:32:07):
Did you see Point Break Live? Any of you?

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
There's a live break.

Speaker 8 (01:32:11):
Oh, it's been for years. It's a performance. I don't
have anything to do with it. All I know it's
called point Break Live. It's probably here somewhere, certainly it's
It was in Los Angeles and I went with Edgar
Wright one because he wanted to see it and he wanted.

Speaker 4 (01:32:27):
To Yeah, I know, yeah, and different one.

Speaker 8 (01:32:33):
The other one, yeah, the one that didn't do show
right right, that one. And anyway, there's a character in
it that plays me. It's very funny and she's like
got a megaphone and you know half the time. Oh,
it's really I mean, you have you buy your ticket
and they give you like a clear poncho because for

(01:32:57):
the wave sequences they throw water all off.

Speaker 1 (01:33:01):
I want to I want to go there.

Speaker 8 (01:33:05):
And they picked somebody from the audience for Keanu each
night with and they give them a card that you know, yeah,
so it could be still it's going on for years.

Speaker 1 (01:33:20):
You or did you just show ambushing one night?

Speaker 8 (01:33:22):
No, we just ambushed. But then they realized it was
that I was there, and then you know, when they
robbed the banks, they came and robbed both Edgar and everything.
Everything that we had they took and it was it
was fabulous. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
I'm looking on Google right now, Catherine.

Speaker 7 (01:33:44):
Have you ever had an issue with someone taking direction
from you because they've never worked with the female director?

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
Well, I don't, unless you'd like to.

Speaker 8 (01:34:01):
I think I don't know. I've I think either I've
been lucky or you know, I kind of I steer
clear of assholes. Assholes exactly, you know, but I mean,
you know, you can you can sense a sort of

(01:34:21):
attitude and I move away, I move I'm moving the
opposite direction. But no, I've been really lucky, you know,
Crewe and cast.

Speaker 12 (01:34:33):
One thing I was always curious about, for the time
that you were with James Cameron, what was it like
to be, you know, for two creative people in one household.

Speaker 5 (01:34:44):
What was that like?

Speaker 4 (01:34:47):
Well, yeah, seconism and now who you used to be married?
Let's that was that was?

Speaker 8 (01:35:02):
I mean, we're actually great friends, so I mean it
was it was kind of fabulous for the time that
it was fabulous, until it was no longer fabulous. But
I mean we talk a lot about film, as you
can imagine, you know, like like, you know.

Speaker 11 (01:35:22):
Just did you steer each other away from projects?

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
Like two film nerds in the same household a lot
of that, Like, you know, why are you using so
many close ups?

Speaker 8 (01:35:30):
Why are you using so many what are you using
white angle? Why are you using it twenty four when
you could use this three hundred? You know, it's that
kind of conversation.

Speaker 5 (01:35:36):
So over you.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
Let your petty flag.

Speaker 8 (01:35:46):
I completely was I was surprised. I mean I thought
one hundred percent it was Avatar.

Speaker 1 (01:35:52):
It was not in any way, so not any endpoint.
Did you give him a side eye as you walked
up to the podio?

Speaker 4 (01:35:57):
No, no, no, definitely.

Speaker 11 (01:36:10):
Looking at the oscar.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
Well, we're silly like that. We're just trying to be
very respectful and use the good China.

Speaker 4 (01:36:25):
In China.

Speaker 1 (01:36:27):
Yeah, exactly know, we had a paper plays out we
bring well. No, you know, I figure at some point
you might get tired of of having to represent what's
it like to be at the mountaintop and the boys club,
and I know it gets tired of something that you
would want to just be a director, not the first

(01:36:50):
female or history making.

Speaker 11 (01:36:51):
So isn't there is there a female director collective?

Speaker 8 (01:36:55):
Like, well, there's there's a kind of a kind of
like that DTA Director Skilled of America is the steering committee,
And I mean, you you know, I suppose my feeling
is I've always resisted a conversation about your woman doing.
You know, I think that kind of ghettoizes women, you know,
in other words, that actually prevents a perceptual in other words,

(01:37:19):
it it siloizes them. And so you know, I think
of myself as a filmmaker. I don't think of myself
as a woman director.

Speaker 1 (01:37:27):
So there's no Sundays with Sophia and.

Speaker 8 (01:37:32):
I just I just don't think of that only because
I think it, well, I don't think like that because
I think it perpetuates that inequity.

Speaker 7 (01:37:39):
But what about from a mentorship standpoint, because it is
and I'm guessing that there is an inequity in the
numbers of the female directors.

Speaker 8 (01:37:47):
And seven percent you mean that that kind of inequity.

Speaker 7 (01:37:51):
I mean, I don't know, it's that like sixty cents
to a dollar to me, but the facts facts. But yeah,
so what about on that note, because there is a
economy of Okay, I don't want to be the female director,
but hey, it's not.

Speaker 11 (01:38:03):
A lot of us.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
So how do I is the game where you become
moreau like do you run? Do you imagine like maybe
fifteen years from now you will have your own paramount
where you.

Speaker 3 (01:38:19):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
Make sure that again like again, you said that, you
already said that you don't want to focus on the
sex of it, but at least from what you know.
And I know that you've had a lot of mansplanning
done in your life and a bunch of no's told
to you, and you've saw injustice where your male counterparts

(01:38:41):
would have gotten that and sure petty shit like, well,
I think it should be done this way and that whatever.
So is there any desire to I would like to
open my own production company and give fellow means out
there a voice or that sort of thing.

Speaker 8 (01:38:58):
Well, I'm well, I'm working with I do you know,
I'm producing a couple of things, and I try to
you know, I try to give back in that way.
And I suppose also in the world of philanthropy, as
I said, elephant conservation or any wildlife trafficking conservation, So

(01:39:21):
you try to give back in a way that's meaningful.
But I also am a creative advisor at Sundance, and
that's where I sort of spend most of my energy
of trying.

Speaker 1 (01:39:32):
To even at the score.

Speaker 8 (01:39:35):
Well, yeah, to a certain extent. On the other hand,
I sort of always walk away from that feeling like
I get way more than anybody else. You know, It's
just I don't know. Do you know the kind of
I don't presume to be able to. I mean, I
never want to tell somebody what to do. I just
want to do what I do and hope that inspires

(01:39:57):
others to carry on. I always tell them, don't take
no for an answer. No, it doesn't exist in your world,
in your universe. No doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
Well said, I know that. I know this much. Thank
you very much, Kavin Bigelo for coming on Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 8 (01:40:16):
I appreciate, thank you, thank you, thank you, all of you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:19):
All of you and on behalf of Boss Bill, Unpaid
Bill Sugar, Steve Fon Ticcolo and Laiya aka Margaret. We
thank you Kavin Bigelow for coming on the show, reminding
all VPU out there because you enjoyed to have a
conversation about what's going on. Get involved. Just don't be

(01:40:39):
a couch critic and criticize. You're telling me you'll do
something about it. This Quest Love Supreme. Thank you very much.
I will see you the next go round. I wish
you love peace. Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

(01:41:01):
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