QLS Classic: Kevin Liles

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic
episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey, what's up y'all? Leten you man Fonte fonticawiciclo and
right now, this is yet another Quest Love Supreme classic
from February first, twenty seventeen pre Rome when we sat
down with hip hop mogul Kevin Loud where he talked
about the early Baltimore scene, his rise to president of
Deaf Jam, and the value of hard work and also

(00:30):
a lot of people didn't know his his very little
known role in writing a song called Girl. You know
it's true. This is an amazing episode, so listen check
it out. Y'all know where to get it. Fontikolo Quest
of Supreme Classic Deserve.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Supremo, Suprema Roll Call, Suprema su Suprema roll call, Suprema
Son Supprea role call Suprema something something.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Suprema roll card.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I am Quest Loved Girl, Yeah, I am Quest Love Girl.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I am Quesse loved Girl. Yeah. And this is true.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
No supprima, roll call, Suprema Son Son Suprema Rod.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
My name is Fante, Yeah, feed me Seymour. Yeah. Shout
out to all my Yeah, niggas out and be more.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Suprema roll call Suprema Sun Suprema.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Roll call.

Speaker 5 (01:39):
Name is Sugar Yeah with Kevin Lyles. Yeah, Quest loves Suprema. Yeah,
don't change that time Rod.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Suprema son Son Suprema, roll call Suprema so something Suprema roll.

Speaker 6 (01:55):
Called pay Bill Yeah, going wild Yeah, Quest love Supreme.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, Kevin Loud roll.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Call Suprema Suprema, roll call Suprema.

Speaker 7 (02:08):
So Suprema roll call.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
It's like yeah, m yeah, I have another ladies. Yeah,
these dudes, God damn roll.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Supreme Rod Suprema Suprema roll calls.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Receive his whack, yeah, says Bob Bill. Yeah yeah I
said that ship. Yeah, just keeping it. Roll call Supreme,
roll call.

Speaker 8 (02:43):
My name is Kevin.

Speaker 7 (02:44):
Yeah, I guess I'm here.

Speaker 8 (02:46):
Yeah, I want to tell you.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I have no fear.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Roll call Suprema Suprema, roll call Suprema Suprema.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Rolls were.

Speaker 8 (03:02):
Roll up.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Roll Oh man, that's so much just happened.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
That's first fucking.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Comown. Ladies and gentlemen walking.

Speaker 9 (03:27):
Into the engineer all up in your video.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Calm down, come to question, smoking, Come on, ladies.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
And gentlemen, welcome to another edition, our first February Black
History Month Editionbruary to uh question, Love Supreme?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Did I say February with a Brew?

Speaker 1 (03:46):
I don't know, because I say February but without the Brew.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, yeah, February. This is weird Wednesday. Those are like
names that like it's like a black teenage mother name those.
This is all these extra letters in that part of
Africa's in February come from.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
I stole that from the pound cake speech from Bill Cosby.

Speaker 5 (04:12):
That Bill Cosby, he's a.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
H well you know this this is uh well, it's
not necessarily a special addition to quest Love Supreme, but
we have a very special guest who, in my opinion, uh,
he's the example of excellence and tireless determination and work
and long hours. From interning in the mail room to

(04:45):
ordering in the lunch room.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I feel like Jesse Jackson.

Speaker 10 (04:49):
In the mail room, to order in the lunch room,
to the ball room, to meetings in the late meeting.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
In fire and iron in the boardroom.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for mister Kevin Laws.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I welcome and welcome man. Okay.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
I have to say, first of all, thank you for
accepting and clearing your schedule because you are probably the
hardest working executive I've ever known.

Speaker 8 (05:23):
I can tell you no, So I.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Do my research.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Really, I mean to me, the difference between you and
another well known public figure, CEO is that you're not
about the spotlight.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
You're the one that didn't want to be up on
all the videos and dance.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Can I ask you, once you realize that that was allowed,
did you like regret like, well, I'm the one that
actually had to hit can't.

Speaker 8 (05:51):
I can't dance? So I'm good? No, I'm good. I
enjoy the culture, I enjoy the opportunity that that that
God gives me, and I miss the work. You know,
I don't. I think you lead by example. You don't
just do it for the job or do it for
the glory. I think there's a lot of gut before

(06:12):
the glory, you know what I mean. So that's me,
you know.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
I mean, just based on your history and where you
know a lot of your lean years, the work that
you put in, I have to also say that you
also might be a glutton for punishment. Because we're going
to get into that. We're going to get into that.
Take a little bro what happy uh February.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
Happy February.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
It is black history buff right, Why is it? I
thought we were last month?

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Because because I'm black, you know, real black, so have
you know, just you in this room.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
You blackness gets to claim a whole month.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
Episode.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
It is still about Quansas because that was a long
time ago.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
We regret that because I had to look up who
uh uh that who's no the person that you doctor
York Coolery.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
No, Miles, what happened on a previous episode was that
Fante like to compare the founder of Doctor York and Scamra.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
That's the that's the rabbit fl down Joe How come
I are you late? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:30):
I was late.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
I'm also in my forties. Would have to know about
Joey and this camera?

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I only know just from Twitter that you know.
That was how I found out.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Butt research on you see. That's why it's like your
mom because I'm black.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
I mean, you know.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Once Chuck Woolery agreed with the Fante, then off and
we'll be back into Okay, okay, okay, anyway, mister Lyles,
we usually start with the timeline of the beginning.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
So you're you're from.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Be more correct, yes, be more you're claiming Baltimore too.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
I'm sorry, sir, I should say yes because I went
to Morgan State, so every city it's thirty minutes away.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
But DC in Baltimore, don't.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
They're very different.

Speaker 8 (08:20):
Well, cousins their cousins. You know, we're family doesn't always
like each other, right, shout out to Glizzie. You know,
I'm I'm. I got a lot of family in d C.
You know, a lot of family and be more. The
whole d m V is like I made my tracks there,
so you know, I love all of it.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
You know, you know, I'm surprised you still have your
Baltimore accent, Like I still hear your two's and you're
do you.

Speaker 8 (08:43):
Cut me up and I be more? You know that
that's just what it is. And I've been accepted uh
here in New York I made for twenty five years,
so it's like, you know, I'm guess some from New
York too, you know what I mean? So but you
cut me open them be more forever.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
I didn't know that too. And you that that's a jow,
that's a jawn, or that's I.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
Don't think Baltimore has a jawn. It's just the what
do you call the you know what tho?

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Okay, not that I should hold near and dear what see.
I don't want to be that person that references the
wire like, well on the wire I saw. But I
actually heard Snoop's character use the word jawn when describing.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Like wiggle it jiggle it came on young young Wait
he was, Yes, he was. Did you say that you
were still there, that I was there? Okay? I thought
I was because of Baltimore. You were there? I was
there at that time?

Speaker 8 (09:40):
To you?

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well yeah, basically like Snoop use the word jawn.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
She might have said Joe because Joe is kind of like,
but no.

Speaker 8 (09:50):
She meant like that's my joint. Yeah, we used that too. Yeah, Yo,
you know.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
Y'all use yo for everything.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I thought it was a New York then asn't it.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
But I appreciate you because you you still go back.
You would just at Morgan like writing that recently, Like
you constantly go back and give back to Morgan State.

Speaker 8 (10:09):
Yeah. And I try to tell people you nothing without
bringing people with you. So I just go as a
beacon of light. We're raising two hundred and fifty million
dollars for Morgan and if you go there. When I
went there, you know, we stated Cummings and now it's
like one of the top you know, five universities for engineers,
the number one African American university for engineers, you know

(10:31):
what I mean. So I'm a former engineer, so it's
a blessing to go back all the time. My whole
family's there too, so it's like.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
The most up north HBCU as well.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, yes, man, you are really giving back, Like I
feel bad, Like I think I gave a drum set
to my high school.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
In Baltimore. You are there, oh yeah, yeah and everything.

Speaker 8 (10:52):
Yeah, that's my city. You know. One thing when you
come from humble beginnings and you know, like I tell people,
most of my journey comes from real life shit, you
know what I mean. So like I didn't, I've been
in it. You know, you talk about the why that
was my that was the error, you know what I
mean of like you know, my uncles and everybody, and
for me to be here and just talk about it

(11:14):
still talk about my city. Just recently Kean Copperta who
went to Woodland after me, younger than me, but I
built the stadium. He would always pay for the Falcons.
He came home. He would always do a class for
kids who wanted to play football, track and field and
things like that, and developed a great friendship. And one
thing about Baltimore. If something ever happened in Baltimore, I

(11:36):
get it. I get it. So not to start off
in a but you know, I always gotta be spiritual.
So he was playing for Son, and you love this
quest in a way, but you also it was a
sad moment. But playing for Son, made a mistake and
hit his head, went into a coma and at you know,
thirty nine years old. Past. Now tell that story, because

(11:58):
when you talk about Baltimore, you owe it to where
you're from, to always go back because something it's going
to happen to somebody at some point in time, and
people need light, they need something positive, They need something.
One of the reasons why you do the show, you
know what I mean. People need light, people need guidance.
And you know when people speak about Baltimore, that's like

(12:21):
that's my city, that's like it's really my city, you
know what I'm saying. So to me, I just love
and I don't know how I went there and there,
I guess it was on my heart, so fuck it.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
So how did you?

Speaker 8 (12:30):
No?

Speaker 1 (12:30):
No, no, I mean, but I want to talk about that,
like my depiction, Like I used to go to Baltimore
a lot, Like I had an uncle and aunt down there.
We go like summertimes, you know, weekends, they're.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Sort of things.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
And I didn't see the Baltimore that's you know, depicted
on TV. I mean, like does it do you feel
some sort of way when you hear the I guess
there's somewhat fetishizing of the Wire culture with other I mean,

(13:04):
the inside joke is always like more white people love
the Wire than black people, do you know, like they will.
I've seen many Wire references in every like high brow
comedy show on TV or whatever. It's just always like
some inside joke about it. But you know, it's a
lot of people the Wire is like what they feel

(13:26):
is Baltimore.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
And like, how do you, I mean, how did you?

Speaker 1 (13:30):
What was your Baltimore you growing up and and like
your experiences with the city.

Speaker 8 (13:35):
All at all that all that, and I have to
be honest with you. So when I grew up, it
was probably highlight you know, well the dope scene, you
know what I mean? And you know, if you want,
it was there. It was everywhere. I always say, you know,

(13:56):
you have the drug store, the liquor store, the church,
in the dope corner. It was there. It was just there.
So that's what people talked about. That's what people were.
You want to know how to make money. You wanted
to be with that guy who was on the corner.
He always had the money and he was giving back
to the kids. And that all everything that the wire
trolled a true depiction of what was happening in that

(14:20):
that the city at the time, to the point where
when it got to where people were saying, it's the
home or the wire. Martin O'Malley, who was at that
time mayor about to go for a governor a friend
of mine said, that's not what I want us to
be known for, not under my you know, my jurisdiction.
And he actually went It was one of the guys

(14:41):
to say, hey, we shouldn't go, you know, we should
stop it and do something. And from that point on,
Rich Carlton Four Seasons turned the whole in a harbor. Johns.
Hopkins invested into Fell's Point, like so many big things
in Morgan State, went to a different level. But you know,
to say why I appreciate life and why I appreciate moments,
you know, even like this, it's because you know, I

(15:02):
come from very humble beginnings. I said, I didn't grow
up with a silver spoon in my mouth. My ship
was rusted, you know what I mean. So I know
I know what it is. So it was like that.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
Though, what's crazy is Martin O'Malley was really depicted in
the wire as Mayor Garcetti, who was very.

Speaker 8 (15:16):
Yes, mess Martin and all, and these are all people,
you know, we just retired, well she retired herself of
Senator mccowsky and you know you I'm forty eight now,
so I've seen it, you know what I mean. Even
from a very young age, you know, back may of smoke.

(15:36):
Back then. I was always thought that if if you
had politics, if you could put yourself with position of
power by being around that. And so I've been with
every mayor, governor, city council member, the whole nine. Also,
when people got in trouble, I can get him out.
I could always wear some things out. So it's just
a you know, it's it's the truth. Though I loved

(15:57):
the Wire, though I loved. It was a homing and
cultural uh history to me for TV, for HBO. I
think it was one of those soprano moments for our culture,
you know, for the while.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
So you saw places and those things, just you saw
memories and you.

Speaker 8 (16:15):
And I need to go, you not need to take
a walk Baltimore. And I'm being the way I'm the
way I'm being serious about because I think I could.
I could show you the older and new. I can
show you some of the stuff that was happening back
then where it's happening now. But also I mean you
can go have tea at the Four Seasons, you know
what I mean? And you and I can go and
visit Johns Hopkins and go to the Morgan to see

(16:37):
the new engineer and building, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (16:39):
Gentrifying.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, I was gonna say, is it going through a
gentle yesifaication? And are they phasing out the residents or
is it inclusive?

Speaker 8 (16:48):
No comment? Mm hm m, no comment.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
Because my apartment was four hundred and eighty dollars.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Ain't that nothing.

Speaker 8 (17:00):
I see? I see Let's take a let's take a
walk this year though, that definitely I would love to.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Do with you I'm down you joined us, like, yeah,
I would love to.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
I love to see where Baltimore is gone.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
I'll go.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
I got people in Baltimore you can call if it
go down.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, don't everybody.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
Me and Bill go, but we're staying in our harbor.

Speaker 8 (17:23):
Cool me too.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
So in your in your where does where does music play?
Because before, I mean, most people know you as an executive,
but there there might be millennials whatnot, uh that don't
know that you were actually an artist yourself. So what
was music music's role in your life? And did did
Baltimore really have a music culture?

Speaker 8 (17:48):
Like did we Well?

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Okay, I know that there's this whole d M v
idea of this unity thing, but you know, for most
people that I speak to from d C, they're just
claiming Go Go and not Baltimore. And then Baltimore is
like claiming house music and nothing else.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
And I'm not sure where Virginia and North Carolina falling.
They trickled down. It was just everything. Yeah, so you
guys had an active go go. We didn't. Well, we
had it, but it was it was transplants. I mean
the thing with North Carolina was that you know, back
to what Kevin was saying with the drug trade, Uh,
North Carolina was you know, it was on the route

(18:28):
if you were going south, so pretty much. And we
had where I grew up in Greensboro, we had like
a lot of colleges. It was a college town, so
you had a lot of Northerners coming up and going
to school down south, and they were bringing their music
with them. So go go, I mean, go go was
like crazy.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
I mean the reason that college was the reason go
go Coultur, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
So alloted all the go go then, I mean all
the classic you know early eighties, you know New York
hip hop stuff. I mean that's what we would listening to.
So that was why, like when we came out as
a little brother, they were like, y'all don't sound like
y'all from the South, and it was, well the South
that we were from. That's what we listened to because
that was that was our biggest influence. That's coming down
the seaboard.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
Baltimore Club, our house music was that.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Didn't make it. The Baltimore Club didn't make it. I didn't.
I didn't figure out the Baltimore Club until it was
later because that was like really hate what I know
as Baltimore house music.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
That made it sort of entry in hipster's lives, like
two thousand and two, two thousand and three, was.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
That always a thing, always a thing, always the thing.
So how far.

Speaker 8 (19:30):
Back depends what you saw you want to go. I mean,
like so with me, i'm a I started as an MC,
but also DJ our whole thing with new marks. Uh.
We had ten turntables and so we would mix. We
would do our mixes with ten turntables, you know. I mean,
somebody would play the bass beat and then people scratched
records over top of it and blended and we went

(19:50):
around doing that. And then the whole rap thing came
with run DMC and thing, and it was like yo,
my man said, yo you rap. I said, no, I
write poetry. He said, well, so we're gonna be Roden
KG and I was KG, and I was like cool.
And then this was back when in Baltimore there was
a group called We Rock Crew Charm City Crew and

(20:13):
a couple of them, and we would battle all over
the city, you know what I mean. And so I
don't want to say the house music thing. You know,
I did all that too. I mean, you can go
like North Avenue record I made about the street that
we used to run up and down with the cars.
I love that because that was Baltimore music. But what

(20:34):
was really in me was hip hop. And I was
like a true Fano. I lost my mind when I
heard some records. And you know, so I can take
you back to when the radio station was w EBB
and all they played was for four hours is the
Mac James Show. To now every radio station talking about

(20:54):
the station. Hip hop and R and B. It's all day.
You know, they played every day, you know, I mean
that's everywhere now. But back then I had to slept
on the floor mixed wrapped. I opened up. You loved this,
So I think my record got a little big or whatever.
And so LLLL was coming to a place called forty
six or four Liberty Heights, and so I opened up

(21:15):
for l L No. I'm on, somebody pulled a gun.
They started shooting in there, and up in the judgment
with Tar, he said, yo, y'all crazy. I said, that's
you good, don't don't worry about it. So but not
just him, run DMC. I opened up for Salt and Pepper.
I opened up for Rob Base, Rob Base and the

(21:39):
vert I went on tour with. I mean like when
you when you talk about it, it's like, this is
why I know how to treat an artist, because I
know what it is. I know how I wanted to
be treated. Will Smith.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
They actually they they would actually let.

Speaker 8 (21:50):
You let me. I was big in the city quest
I was big, arena big throwing your hands in the air.
I was arena big.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Well, no, just like today artists, I mean not even today,
like you just come in, you get on the mic,
and then you out, like I can't remember the last
time the other big in I met little Brother because
like the Route show got rained out and I was like,
all right, let me walk in the audience and shake
some hands. When I was there, Yeah, I want to

(22:26):
got the demo and I wanted to tweet about it
or tweet it.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Well okay, playered about it. But I'm just.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Saying that what what made you well, not what made
you want to in your mind. Were you like, Okay,
I'm going to be a diplomat to these you know,
for the city and and give it these artists or
it was just like hip hop was so scarce in
the mid to late eighties that you just had to

(22:53):
know every MC or act that came down.

Speaker 8 (22:56):
No, you know what, you know what it was, I
ran the streets, so it's like I knew everybody, and
then the promoters would tell artists, Hey, you're gonna do
the show where we got to put this group New
Marks on because they local, they're gonna bring about, you know,
tickets and things that, so you should put them on.
And the way we used to run because we DJ'ed
on the radio for four or five hours and we

(23:18):
used to do shows. We kind of like ran the
city when it came to music, you know what I mean.
So it's like they just loved having us open up.
And then me always treated it like a business, you
know what I mean. It wasn't about me hanging out
with people or just meeting somebody. I wanted to have
a value proposition, so I made sure when artists came
down that they felt like they got to be more love,

(23:39):
you know what I mean. It was something special about
them coming down. So one artists would tell another artist that, yo,
them kids, you got to they could take you where
you got to go. They can get you anything you want,
and they don't. So that was really my mindset.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Who always in New Mark. So who were the other
members of the group.

Speaker 8 (23:54):
One of the original founders was DJ Spen. He still
plays house music today shout out to Spin and beat Master.
Moll was a kid named Wayne Mallory. He's married and
in Florida. Junie Jam was one of my neighbors and
his cousin Rod was Rod Rod and KG you know me.
So it was five. It was five of us. And
when it yeah, kind of, it was at the time

(24:18):
of I I can truly tell you man that you know,
being from Baltimore, and they had had a certain soundings
before the house music thing was hip hop and they
started to develop back I meant Crystal Waters and the
Basement Boys and all like. This was all stuff that
we did. I'm coming up. It was a place called
Paradox that people used to go to for for club music.

(24:40):
But then Frank Ski, which you know, you know, he
used to do this thing called Hammer Jacks. Hammer Jacks
was a club like it's like a house of blues,
but it was in Baltimore. And when I tell you,
we brought you know, and I started interning for Death Jam.
I brought everybody from DMX man Method Man Blah, blah

(25:01):
blah everybody as even when I became the president, but
everybody would come. We had to do Hamma Jacks. It
was like the spot in the city we had to do. So,
you know, although I was you know, I grew up
on the house, hip hop was always like part of it,
you know what I mean. So I always try to say, Yo, guys,
we really gotta gotta have that the edge with us,
that the thing with us, you know what I mean.

(25:21):
Even though I did the Girdy Knows true thing, it's
still like, you know, you gotta have that edge, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
All Right, I want to let's let's bring up the
elephant in the room right now. Let's kid, all right, well,
let's play the elephant in the.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Room right now.

Speaker 4 (25:35):
Oh, let's do it. So what are you doing that?

Speaker 8 (25:38):
Well, a setback and thought about the things we used
to do together. They really meant a lot to me.

Speaker 7 (25:46):
Yes, you know it's true.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
No, even even though I've heard this on and off
since I found out that you were the author of
A Girl, you know it's true. But in preparing for
this interview and listening to it about a good three times,

(26:15):
that was a well crafted song.

Speaker 8 (26:18):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Now this is the other thing, Uh, everyone knows about
my Soul Train addictions. And I happened to be watching
an eighty six episode of.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Soul Train with Star Point.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
And Don and then we're talking about you know, they
were just making a big thing of Maryland and Baltimore
and everything, like you guys are the biggest thing to
come out there, and you know what I mean, they
were embellisting like, yeah, you know, we can't even walk
in the malls.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
All people asked Bar.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
And then May at the end of the interview they
were like, yeah, you know, we want to develop more
acts and everything. Like they really played it like they
were the bell, the ball of Baltimore area. And I mean,
you know, they had object they had hits. I think
they were the next show He Wants My Body? Or
what was the joint with Teddy Roley?

Speaker 2 (27:09):
I want you? You want you don't?

Speaker 1 (27:12):
You don't, I can't Teddy Roley produced their eighty A joints.
But my point was that, like, were there being as
though they were the biggest act of the eighties, Were
they at a presence at all in.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
And were they at all in your radar like during
that time period?

Speaker 8 (27:32):
So you. You want to hear the craziest thing. There's
a guy and stopped pointing in Kai, Yeah, Kai, did
I love you?

Speaker 2 (27:42):
I wait what?

Speaker 8 (27:45):
Seriously he wrote the lyric.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
I love you.

Speaker 7 (27:53):
Exclusive exclusive.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Wow, wait a minute. I I just thought my whole
point was that, like star Boy was really playing, like yeah,
we were thinking Baltimore. I didn't even know that y'all
cross baths.

Speaker 8 (28:09):
I was just the did we cross bas Bill Petaway,
who works with Tim land Now, had this let's tell
you a little bit about the record, had this record
this track, and you know, I was a rapper, so
I wouldn't really didn't write the songs, so you know,
I do all that. But he said, yo, we probably
need Ki to help us to say ky. I didn't

(28:30):
really know like that, you know what I mean? So
he said yeah stop. I said, oh, okay, cool, I
think I some hits that this is right there. So
he wrote that part of the record and it's one
of the That's why I say the group I have
to give him pay respect. And the other other group
was rations you know what I mean. They the Drumma,
the drummer from RASCS was my engineer for my first album.
I mean, I actually made an album too, but I

(28:51):
think we can. You can look that up.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
You recorded in the Oxen Hill, Maryland right.

Speaker 8 (28:58):
Oxen Hill, Maryland Studio Records, yep.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
The last record that was made in Auxton Hill, Maryland.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Last work, all right, I got to do more homework.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
I have to do more homework. Yeah, actually.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
We got it, don't We don't have a turn here
getting on war Yeah, shout out to Ard war So.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Explained to me the journey of Girl you not. It's true.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
For our fans that are.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Born after nineteen it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
I mean, this song was bigger than life and basically
pretty much it was one of the biggest singles of
nineteen eighty eight for the Aristo label and caused an empire,
Like just the entire story, Like I want to know
the journey of the song, but then I just want

(30:04):
to know what your reaction was that you helped build
an empire and the fall of that empire and the
scandal that broke out, And I mean, how many times
were you like but that's me, Like how many people
came up to you, Like I thought you were a
gazillionaire because your song? First of all, why didn't you

(30:24):
or did you like, how close were you guys to
actually trying to bring this to a major or take
it to a major label. And cause it's a well
crafted song for a local record, it is a very
well crafted song.

Speaker 8 (30:40):
So here's the thing. It was inspired by I Need Love.
I'm taught ell and I I wasn't doing it to
be a big artist like that, to be honest with you,
you know what I mean. I was doing it because
I like.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
On purpose, or you just didn't think, oh, this song
could actually with one hundred kids through college.

Speaker 8 (31:02):
Or honestly, it was just another another record. There's actually
another record I love more than it. But when creating
that record, I knew it was special. I knew it
was special. Every time we would play it, people would
just freak out over and then I knew when we
performed it, it's like the whole crowd saying yeah, I
knew it was special. So we sold like one hundred

(31:23):
thousand copies with Studio records. And I remember I'm home
chilling and with this girl and I said, they turn
the radio off, and she said, that's not the radio.
I said, what do you mean, it's not the radio off?
She said, no, I said, baby, it's the radio. I
don't have a video for the record. She said, I
know that's not you, but that's that's that's your record

(31:44):
right there. And it was really really performing my record.
That's how I found out on TV.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
So so Frank Farion for those that don't know, going
in there. All right, So here's the deal.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
So Frank Farian was a producer and a member of
a seventies funk outfit called Bonie M. Steve's laughing because
he knows the story I'm gonna tell. Side note, I
once thought I was hired to do a Bonie M
record in the late two thousand.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Then fucking around was Bonie James. Now I can't get
rid of him. He's my BF. But at the time
I thought I was doing a Bony M session. I
was like, wait a minute, it smooth jazz, like what.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Marcus Miller anyway, Yeah he I guess he heard this
on a German night club and an army base or
something like.

Speaker 8 (32:42):
So. Unbeknownst to me, my label Studio Records, we're getting
calls off all over the world for Grave Nose True
the New Box right, and instead we want Chrysalis Records.
Came and said, we want to pick you guys up.
I didn't. This is I didn't. This is all I

(33:02):
found out afterwards through the court. And he he said, well,
I want money, and so he wanted to cash advance
and Bluebird, whoever the label was, gave him the money.
But Christlis wanted to develop the group, but he didn't
care about that part of it. He cared about getting money,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
So the label you released it on, was it your label?
Per se?

Speaker 8 (33:25):
No? No, no, okay.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
So the person who's the head of.

Speaker 8 (33:27):
The label at that time was a guy named Franco
something I forgot his name, okay, But he sold it
to Bluebird. Bluebird didn't distribute it through z y X
and the what do you call that? Denilux countries in
Japan and was on some label and France is on

(33:48):
some label. And in the club they were playing my
version of the record. And so C W Shaw, who
was an Army veteran, he was in the Army, he
sends me this long letter. You don't know me. I
actually sung your record and Milli Vanilli's singing, acting like

(34:12):
they singing. He actually I got a letter from C. W. Shaw,
who actually said I'm the voice.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
So he's that guy that's singing and rapping.

Speaker 8 (34:19):
From here from Houston. He said, I love you guys.
I love your version of it. They came and asked
me to re sing the record. He said, it's not
out yet. And so now this is when the record
is eighteen many copies and I'm working on the second album.
You know, I did, I did that one girls true,
what's my Diane Warren did blame it on the range.

(34:40):
So we think about what we're gonna do next with
the next album, and then the whole thing thing blew up.
You couldn't have wrote the story, you know what I mean.
You couldn't wrote the characters.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
And so Diane Warren did blame it on the rain
on New Walks first.

Speaker 8 (34:51):
No no, no, no, no no. I'm saying I met
her because I had Gery norstru which was the first single,
and she did blame it on the ring.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
It was only one voice for that was one. I
didn't even realize that that was one man.

Speaker 8 (35:02):
No, he did, he did, he did this. It was
really two of them, but I only know the one
uh c W shot so shout out. You know. He
told me about it, but I didn't know what was
going on. I was making money because I sued and
got my publishing and my writer stuff back.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
I'm saying, like they didn't even clear it with you.

Speaker 8 (35:19):
And I woke up a girl said, that's you on
the radio on the TV. That's how I found out,
and so I had to get a lawyer, like that's
my song. Yeah, hurt beyond. I wasn't. I wasn't mad.
It was that how can so, how can somebody do that? Like?
And it was that that moment that I said, I

(35:40):
don't want to be in the music business. I want
to be in the business of music. It was at
that moment and I changed everything the whole folk.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
So that made you want to get behind the camera,
behind in the boardroom instead of in front of the microphones.

Speaker 8 (35:53):
Yes, I never wanted to happen again. I never wanted
to happen to anybody again.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
You know, you wanted to be this person because you
wanted to protect someone from getting ganked and and well
from the situation that happened to you.

Speaker 8 (36:09):
Yes, yes, it really made me want love the bit
I started to see things differently than I would go
to a show and say, damn, that's a lot of
glows sticks. I wonder how much they cost? Damn the
tickets price is this? And I would start thinking the
business of everything around me. And so that's what made
me go back and said I'm an intern because I

(36:30):
didn't understand enough, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (36:32):
How long for a situation like that, especially without the
internet or something to help rush the process of information?
I mean, how long was it of you crying wolf? Like, wait,
I wrote this song, I wrote the song and getting
an answer and eventually getting to Clive Davis or like,

(36:57):
I can't even believe that they would be so careless
as to release a song, markt a song, sell the
song without checking to see, if.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
You know, do some research everything.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I'm clear, it's like with us, like even a minuscule
sample is a wait that laughing and mirror?

Speaker 2 (37:17):
What's that laughing on that thing? Is that pink Floyd?

Speaker 1 (37:19):
And you know, like you're you gotta So how long
was it from the moment you heard the record in.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Eighty eight till like they finally did right by you and.

Speaker 8 (37:31):
Said, well, I don't think I don't think. I don't
think people ever did did right by say you don't
when you do right. You do right when you have
to sue, that's not doing right, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
So, oh so that was the last resort. Did you say.

Speaker 8 (37:44):
That was the first resort?

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Oh? You just okay?

Speaker 8 (37:47):
I'm phil Asbury. Shout out to phil Asbury, Philadelphia.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
Philadelphia International.

Speaker 8 (37:53):
Phil Asbury showed them what it is to be you know,
don't don't mess with kids, because I was when I
wrote the record. I think I was sixteen, version was
eighty eighty seven seven. I don't even remember, since you're
right on my record, that was when the album came out.
Oh okay, so I'm not sure. I'm not somewhere around there.

(38:13):
I think I wrote it though in eighty three. Wow,
originally me and my partner and you know, just a
weird time. But I never I didn't. I didn't play
with it though. It wasn't It wasn't. It was something
I felt like, like you said, y' y'all had audacity
to not check do it?

Speaker 4 (38:31):
So?

Speaker 8 (38:31):
Eighteen million copies?

Speaker 2 (38:32):
And then did they try to deny it?

Speaker 8 (38:35):
No, you couldn't. No, they just well.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
They said, we live in twenty sixteen, where the lies
of the truth, we are not sixteen at least right
the lover course, So seventeen seventeen, John seventeen, it's definitely February.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
I forgot where we were. No, I'm just saying, you know,
the lie could be the truth.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
And you know, Black Heaven Baltimore says, we stole song
like we're we're an empire.

Speaker 8 (39:02):
It was a little bit and listen at a shout
out to Cloud and it was never I never faulted them.
I always fault at Frank Ferrion. I always faulted uh,
Steve Franco, the owner of Studio Records, because I might
be sitting here as an artist. You know what I mean,
if they would have did the right thing, you know
what I mean, I could have never did for Gerdyos true,

(39:22):
what Billivy nearly did for Gerdios true. You know what
I mean. I'm not wearing tight pants, i ain't jumping
up like that. I'm not doing this and all that.
Those things that happened, and so I think God made that.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
If anything, this is kind of a blessing in disgust.

Speaker 8 (39:37):
It was, and I always tell people, if I had
to do it all over again, I would allow it
to happen because a lot of things came up and
I made a lot of money at a young age
off the record, I traveled the world. Off of the record,
I opened up for people who eventually were signed to me.
Depth there I developed friendships that to this day we're

(40:00):
raising kids. Now you know what I mean. I've became
the I became an intern and was ab come to
president in seven years of Deftem because I knew how
artists should be treated because I was one. I traveled,
I did did everything that they could do. So to me,
why would I want to write it differently? I couldn't.
I couldn't imagine doing nothing. Yea, it's still the next

(40:22):
one too, if you want. You know, all right, this
is quest of Supreme.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
We're here with Kevin Lyles and he's telling us the
story behind the song he co wrote called Girl.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
You know it's true?

Speaker 1 (40:37):
So am I to assume that Newmark's kind of imploded
around this time as well? And nah, so you guys
still went strong, Like how long did the group last time?

Speaker 8 (40:48):
Well, we went from five members down to three members
and it became me and uh Rod and DJ Spin
and we started to do quote unquote more uh Baltimore
music along with hip hop stuff that I like. There's
a record that we put out on we put our
own label because we had a little money then called
Max Brothers Records, And there was a record we put

(41:10):
out called drop Down to Your Knees and a record
we called do You Want To? And they were to
probably the last records that I made, But we kept
going and doing it and then again.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Or what made you?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Well, what was the deciding factor of this straw that
broke the camel's back, Like maybe this isn't the route
to take and I should do something else.

Speaker 8 (41:34):
The Milli Vanilla, the middle of Vanilli thing really paid
played a role in it. But then the internship at
Deaf Jam.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, so how does that happen?

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Like you're at least a a compensated, established figure and
how did you How did you get in the sights
of Russell Simmons for him to say you're going to
work in the mail room? Was it just a job
test for you? Like, no, I'm going to start you
at the very bottom and literally remember Jack the rapper? Yes,

(42:08):
remember impact on concerts. I used to go there and
be the mad rapper. Why I know I want to
sign me? I sold records I did this, y'all know.
That's why I was mad, you know. And then I
ran into uh my mentor, Wes Johnson, God rest his soul.

Speaker 8 (42:27):
West says cab man. You know when I was in
Baltimore used to play your records. I said, yeah, West,
I know you used to play my records. You know me?
He said, you know, I'm the senior vice president of
marketing promotions for death Jam. Now I said, get out
of here. I said, well, sign me to death Jam.
He said, I on really sign them in promotions. I said, well,
give me a job. He said no, but you can
in turn. Now what you said, I was making money, okay,

(42:51):
I said, intern in turn deaf Jam intern Cool. So
Wes Johnson said, you know what I'm had this guy inter.
He said, By the way, we're hiring a guy named
Kevin Mitchell from Boston.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Vin Mitchell. I'm kidding.

Speaker 8 (43:10):
This is that Yes, a guy from Boston, and we're
gonna put him in the mid Atlantic. We like him. Uh,
and you can intern for him.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
So I said, you were Kevin Mitchell's intern.

Speaker 8 (43:22):
Kevin Mitchell's interns Mitchell.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Kevin, all right, I'm thinking the same thing.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
He's gonna let you know, Kevin Mitchell was but for
the roots if you know, of course, like no roots
are listening to my radio show, so I will tell
them about this. When we signed to Geffen, I mean
basically because.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
There was no staff, but they had millions.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
They did some unheard of shit was basically, here, you
take the credit cards, show us the receipts.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Don't overspend.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Like again, you know, Dale's record was made for like
twenty thousand, ciper Seals records made for like sixty thousand.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
They just gave us an open credit card.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
And also like two employees from loud RCA and three
employees from deaf Jet, which were Francesca Spiro, Derreck Jackson,
and Kevin Mitchell, they would they would uh moonlight uh
with Geffen.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
And my our experience with Kevin was that he was
mister McGoo. He was blind.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
He was the cartoon figure that had thick bottle glasses
when he's driving. One night, he was just asleep at
the wheel and we were on the other side of
the road like in dumb and dumber, like he just
somehow wound up with oncoming traffic at three in the morning.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
We woke up like like we were going to die.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
So yes, But Kevin Mitchell's my man besides trying to
kill us, he was. He's a really great friend and
still a friend to us now. But you were his intern.

Speaker 8 (44:53):
I was Kevin's intern. And it was so fun craziest
thing I've heard in my life. It was you you
love the story. So keV didn't know Baltimore whatever. So
keV h hissed me. He said, Wes West said, you're
gonna help me out. I said, yoh, yeah, whatever you need.
Wes my man. Now again, I'm making money. I'm good.
I ain't worried about it wasn't the money thing. So
Kevin called me and said, Yo, I'm downstairs at V

(45:16):
one o three, but I can't get upstairs. I said,
you can't get upstairs? So what you called me for?
He said, because your man is on Frank.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I said yeah.

Speaker 8 (45:24):
I said, so you calling me to get you upstairs
and that's your job and they paying you to do this. Now,
I had a little attitude about it, I said, So
I called Frank Frank yo my man. He one of us.
He good and me and Frank Frank was my wedding.
That's my guy guy. So he he said, keV, I'll
see him whatever you want me to do, blah blah
blah this, And it was that moment where I always
paid respects to Kevin Mitchell. Kevin got on the conference

(45:47):
because he will let me listen on the conference calls
to learn. Kevin said, my intern is going to run
the company, and y'all gonna act crazy if y'all want,
because the ship he can pull off. Here I'm and
so that's really how he let me. He let me live,

(46:08):
and I did work, but he let me live, you know,
I mean.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
All right, I'm gonna let you know something because most
of the industry folklore that at least people my age
know about is the story of Sean Combe's getting on
a train every day at Howard and going to New
York every day and you.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Know, uptown records blah blah blah blah blah. But I'm
gonna tell you something.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
There's two stories I always heard that set or at
least set me on the path for how I dealt
with interns. You don't even know this. You don't even
know this one was you. You always heard stories of
James Brown. James Brown used to always tell like all
his band members, find the the the lowest.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
He would call him the coffee boy, the water boy.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
He says, they don't I guess the term intern wasn't
out back in the fifties or sixties, but James Brown
used to always say, find the coffee boy, the water boy,
and make him feel like he's on top of the world,
because one day, in twelve years, he's.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Going to be signing your checks.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
My my an r Wendy Goldstein told me a story
where she was like, look, we're gonna have to do
real grassroots stuff. It's not gonna be glamorous whatever. You're
going to do these college radio shows and stuff, you know,
because then we had lofty goals.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
It was ninety four.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
You're seeing all these videos and everything, and you're like, well,
when's our hype William's video moment going to happen, and
you know, we're like nineteen to a van and all
that stuff. And she just told me like, look, patients,
stay the course and whatever you do, always be nice
to the interns and the lowly people because it's going
to pay off in ways you don't know. And she

(47:50):
told me a story. You know, Kevin Long, he wrote
col you know it's true and still was there. She
would tell me the stories of like, I guess your
reputation was that you would show up to work earlier
than anyone.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
And lead the latest just to let them know. And
she told me that, and like that stuck with me.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
It's not like I was like WHOA, Okay, well be
nice to but because it just always stuck with me.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
And I'll say to this day, every CEO.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Or a head of a company that I've ever done
business with, at least in the last ten years between
two thousand and six and twenty sixteen, and I've done
a lot of business like pay my mom a house
off business, they it all starts with the same story
that I forget, which is, hey, I don't know you
don't remember this, but this is one time we were

(48:45):
at Brown University, and you know, I was interned at
this college media station and I asked you if I.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Could do an interview.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
You gave me like a nine hour interview, only one
in five minutes and no.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
No.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
And that's because I always remember it really shocked the
host of the podcast. Yeah, well, I'm like, okay, I'm
I'm chatty, but I'm just saying that Heaven.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Kevin and Wendy and Franchessica and Derek like always tell
me make sure that when you go to these colleges
you treat the intern like that stuck with me and
you were like always their example. So I mean you
entered death Chamman in ninety one, ninety one, so this period.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Dark days Man, not quite. I feel like it was
the last. I feel like ninety one is the last
good year of the of the old death jam woman.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah that was not for real, that was like the
classic logo death Jammy. That was the last period.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
So when you were there, what were your duties as intern?

Speaker 8 (49:54):
Well, you know, I was still in Baltimore, so was
whatever Kevin Mitchell needed, you know what I mean. And
at that time was Deaf Comedy Jam was coming and
all these things were being created and Fat Farm and all.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
So so Russell's having you work all the products, not
just yeah. Yeah, it was to shut them down, remix
and make sure these DJs get it.

Speaker 8 (50:15):
We used everything for everything. So we used to do
radio programs where we fly people into Deaf Comedy Jam.
So I flopped fire all the program directors, artists, everybody
in promotion. They wanted to close the wear so it
would give them fat fat farm. You know, so we
we did everything. It kept evolving, so it wasn't and

(50:37):
it wasn't work quest. To be honest with you, I
got to wear.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
So you wanted to remember names and shake hands and
kiss babies.

Speaker 8 (50:43):
And I wanted to make people feel like they met me,
not like they shook my hand.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
But what was the end game for you?

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Like back in ninety one, if you're like, Okay, I'm
meeting this figure and.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Da da da da da da da.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Are you singing down the line like one day I'll
start my own label or not.

Speaker 8 (51:02):
I just I'm that's a different dude. If I'm cooking,
I want to make the best meal. If I'm intern,
I want to be the best intern. If I'm rapping,
I want to be the I just wanted to be
the best. So I never thought about being the president.
Do you think coming from Baltimore that I would be

(51:22):
the president CEO? No, nobody knew me. I don't have
family in any.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
But the thing is that because you were kept because
that you were Kevin Mitchell's intern in ninety one, and
byen ninety nine you're the president of the damn label
that tells me that you had a.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Very marksmanlike determination and ambition.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
I'm sorry where you well, No, no, no no, I don't
mean like a a scandalous way.

Speaker 8 (51:54):
I'll give you some point. I never I never wanted
to be president.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
I never.

Speaker 8 (51:58):
I never knew what it was, to be honest, which
I never didn't know what it was. I thought Russell
would be there forever. I thought thought Leo would be that.
I never knew that was attainable from a kid from me.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
But what told you, first of all is that folklore
I heard that was true. Mitchell would say.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Like you'd show up at eight in the morning like
most people get into ten eleven.

Speaker 8 (52:19):
I'm serious.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
So what tells you I need to be there at
eight thirty a m. Every day before everyone gets there.

Speaker 8 (52:28):
I went to school to be an electrical engineer. My
scholarship was from Nassau. I wasn't playing with.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
From Baltimore CPI.

Speaker 8 (52:41):
No, I was. I was again I was. I guess
I was a cool NERD you know what I mean.
I always wanted to be the best, and I remember
when I came to death sand was the joke that
I would say, oh, come in when I came to
New York, and I'm like, why people come here at
ten thirty eleven o'clock You missed the radio station is
on twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Why you what you mean?

Speaker 8 (53:03):
And then by the time you get there, get your coffee,
head of water cooler. Movement to lunch was there was there.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
A teacher's pet kind of uh uh scarlet letter attached
to your shoulder, like you know, Kevin, like they us.

Speaker 8 (53:19):
Look. They tried to throw me out the building a
couple of times. People would tell on me. I had
people flip over desk in front of me. I had
somebody tried to get me fired at Howard because I
left them because they were late and I had to
get the group to the radio station. So I don't
play that. I'm about the group doing what they're supposed

(53:42):
to do. So I left them. So they sent this
long letter, and so I had to be you know,
being an engineer, you know you you do weird stuff.
So I had to write a response to that letter.
Mine was like this this after every single thing it was,
you kept notes weirdo, I kept it was weird. Oh shit,

(54:02):
you know what I mean? But but I tell you,
but it taught me all the engineering I used to
manage a telemarketing office of four hundred people three different shifts.
Taught me how to rate, how to communicate. Engineering taught
me to be thoughtful, and being an artist that's taught
taught me how to treat people how you know I
want to be treated and so I would really work hard.

(54:25):
Like I said, it wasn't easy because they tried to
throw me out the building. I remember my first mistake,
well not my first stake, well one of the mistakes
they almost got me looked at crazy. I did a
show with Biggie Small's method Man, Redman, Onyx and somebody.
But I did it in a museum doing Howard Homecoming,
Oh logo on the building, Death College jam on the building.

(54:51):
Three hundred thousand dollars. Later, after they destroyed the place,
come on and I had to explain why I would
think doing a show in the museum displaying the rationale.
So I said, well, first off, nobody would throw a
show a museum, and I think hip hop is art.
Hip hop deserves to be in the museum. Secondly, I

(55:12):
feel like if you shine your logo like a bad
time people come to it, So I had two thousand
people out inside and another three thousand people outside. Thirdly,
I thought by having Biggie Smalls and method Man performed
the what for the first time had this opportunity that
I thought it would be a moment. The other time,
honest never been in the museum, so it was just

(55:39):
a moment of time. And and Leor said, what did
you learn? I said, I learned that I would do
it again, but I would have insurance.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
And what does it feel like twenty years later when
Picasso Baby comes out and it's.

Speaker 8 (55:52):
Like, I'm only I'm only telling you. Like I, it's like,
wanted to be That's not to interrupt you. Sorry, I
never wanted to be president. Matter of fact, in ninety
six they came to me and said, you know, we
want to make you president. I said, but I don't
know the world. I don't I don't how can I
be president? And I don't know the world. I don't

(56:13):
know what hip hop looks like in London or in Paris,
and in Japan, I don't really know what it looks like.
So I need more time. So then ninety seven came
around and it was like, yo, you really have to,
we really want to, you know, And then in ninety
eight I said, you know, I'm ready.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Now, Okay, there's a common denominator for this show.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
We're still a baby, and I feel like next to
Stories of the Tunnel. For New York Rappers, the second
common denominator is the leor element, either imitating leor or
kind of.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
What did Lee or leor yeah? Whatever has leor ever
thrown anything at you?

Speaker 8 (57:01):
I don't believe you saying this question.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Over here. Question?

Speaker 1 (57:12):
So of course you you got to work in uh
pre yoga, Russell's deaf jam, uh maybe lunch.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Throwing lee Or's deaf jam?

Speaker 1 (57:28):
What was okay aside from working in Baltimore. I mean,
I'm sure there were a few times you stepped in
the actual building in New York Elizabeth.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
I was there.

Speaker 8 (57:39):
I was when Russell used to live on top of
Tower records. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
I was, I was.

Speaker 8 (57:45):
I was in Baltimore. But I was doing so well
that they would say, come up to New York and
help with this program, will help with this, or.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
See you work outside of your markets.

Speaker 8 (57:55):
Yo. I remember Mike Caser love my man. He said, Yo,
I don't have my life, and shit, can you come
up and get the eighteen passed the van and bring
Whodini down? Then you know who don He wasn't no
death Dann but we managed him rush. So I actually
drove up came to pick the group up in and

(58:16):
this is how like again I didn't have to do it,
I'm the intern, but it was a way for me
to meet who Deini get it in the rush, talk
tough and do something for somebody who was a friend
of mine. Gods, you know what I mean. So I
did that, you know what I mean? So to me,
it wasn't everything.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
So what was what was the building? Like I try
to ask Faith.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
I try to ask Faith Newman this question, and she's
rather diplomatic and not too descriptive. But I mean for
a person, and you know this is not this is
not about like throwing people under the bus or whatever.
But it's just that I've heard so many stories of

(58:57):
like deaf jam but between eighty five in ninety or
pre PolyGram so ninety one ninety two, the Christmas parties,
the you know which which model is now working in
the room, you know, during the whole griff JDL situation

(59:19):
and all the guards that had to be out front
and all that stuff, and just like, what was it like,
give me a deaf jam, an old politically incorrect death jam.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Story, like wow that you won't get arrested for a while.

Speaker 8 (59:39):
Rock and roll? Man, I mean, I mean, every every
bit of everything you could imagine. I never really considered it.
It just it was. It was really. When I tell
you rock and roll, everything was happening that could ever happen.
I'm gonna give you a story. I'm just trying to
get you to.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
The story said.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
When when the roots finally got to like the industry,
everything just stopped, Like nineteen ninety five, everybody was like vegetarian.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Y'all missed the party, and you know the word platonic gotten.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
It's just my paler over there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
You know.

Speaker 8 (01:00:21):
Now listen, all like I say, is this there were
no rules, You were morally incorrect, period, This was nothing.
The only thing we would know we had to do
was work hard. That's what the mindset was. Work harder
than anybody else. But when I tell you, sodam more,

(01:00:48):
I'd have seen so much stuff. And but it's understand
we were kids too, so we and with money and
you know, growing and people having people growing up together.
I got I have friends. So I've been to me
and Learr's twenty five years now, so he was twenty three, no,
thirty somewhere around there and I was twenty three.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Would you think you weren't intimidated about Leor? Because I
even the even people that love and respect, even people
that respect Leor, if I first, if I gained the
trust and first mentioned his name, I mean, at least
a minuscule eye roll happens like Leor, Like the thing

(01:01:30):
is like people have their Have you dealt with Leor
when you guys were Atlantic?

Speaker 8 (01:01:35):
We did.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
We had a meeting with him. Uh it was interesting,
you know, I be real with you like I mean,
and I hopefully we haven't on the show. He probably
remember the joint. But for me, my meeting with Leo
was very much to bring it back to the wire.
It was the canard that's Omar. That was my moment.
I was, it was like that's Omar because to me,

(01:01:58):
like he was like we were talking about it was
around the town when our album, I think Mitchell Show
had just came out, and so we had a meeting
with him and it was just very impromptble. We were
just like in the hallway and he was like eating
a sandwich or something and he was just kind of
standing up. And you know, again from seeing him like
in documentaries and stuff, he's like a very like intense,

(01:02:19):
like he looks like that kind of guy. But then
I met him and he was just like, oh, yes,
so Kanye Drife slow. I loved that song, like I
left Kanye and I was just like, oh, yeah, that's
a cool song. But our album about come out a nigga,
what You're gonna do? And so it was just you
know whatever. I remember it was me, it was it
was all of us. It was three of us, me,
Poo and Knife and manager though, and then James Lopez

(01:02:42):
who used to be and he was there. Yeah, and
so we just had that brief interaction and then we
walked off and I remember asking James, I said, man,
what do you think that is what just happened? Yeah,
I was like, what do you think is gonna mean?
He was just like, man, I don't know. And that
was it, you know what I'm saying. But that was
the only real time I had had amusement. But the
times I had just that one instance and then he

(01:03:04):
came to our show the opening night we did it,
uh at bb King's. Uh, there was like a released
party or something like that. I can't remember, but we
were on tour when the album just came out, and
I mean sold out show. How many minutes? How many
minutes did he stay? Yeah, I want to say he
stayed for like a good he stayed. Maybe called like
the opening set. He probably be called like the first
like fifteen to twenty minutes. Wow, I think yeah, because he

(01:03:27):
you want to know my death jam president minute?

Speaker 8 (01:03:30):
I love a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I think. I think jay Z and Beyonce watched one
verse ship and I turned you know, black man, what happened?
You said? I can't. Yeah, yeah, they Yeah, they came,
he gave. I want to say, I don't know if
you were there. I know the time that me and

(01:03:59):
Kevin it was when we did the Uh it was
a listening part and it was somewhere downtown. I can't remember,
but apparently, like I remember, the fire alarms kept going
off that night and we had to cut it short.
But Uh, that was the first time that me and
you had met outside the office, and I remember you
came up and uh, but yeah, I mean my time
working with him. Again, this is post ninety. You know,

(01:04:20):
everybody you know, stop start doing yoga, stop doing cocing shit.
So it's different.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
But so wait if you if you're just shooting in
the request love Supremum, been doing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
We're here with Kevin Lownes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
We're trying to get uh le Or Cohen stories.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
The thing is, I you know, I respect Leor. I know,
like it's basically I've heard everything about le Or Cohen.
He's liar Cohen, or he's an asshole, or he's a
good businessman, or he's honest with you. I mean, I
respect because the people in my circle are so blunt

(01:04:58):
and so you know, just outright with what they are,
like they don't hide the truth or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
I meant I can respect that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
So for for you, what was it about lear I mean,
did Leor intimidate you in the beginning?

Speaker 8 (01:05:13):
Or I always said, man that it just must be
some brotherly love or such respect. He never and this
might sound weird to you, guys, Learr never yelled at me.

Speaker 7 (01:05:29):
What did you do to not get from Baltimore?

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Maybe he was?

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
And where and be honest with yourself, what was the perception.
What's the perception of you as you're slowly First of all,
how long did you intern before they said this guy's
kind of valuable, let's cut him a check.

Speaker 8 (01:05:48):
Two years.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
It took two years for them to finally and you
didn't complain once already?

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
No, I didn't. I did like it, really I was.

Speaker 8 (01:05:57):
I was doing it for the experience and be honest
with you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
So if Onyx is throwing oranges at you because the
Shifty single didn't get added the MTV or something, you're
not having a They don't pay me enough for this moment.
Like I looked at not making fun of you, because.

Speaker 8 (01:06:15):
I looked at it. They were all they were all
counterparts to me. They were colleagues. I wasn't working for them,
and I just looked at it differently. It's like, yo,
I know what you need. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna
get it done. I'm gonna make sure. Because I was
like by we, I felt like I'm living. You understand
some once you're an artist and then you get on
the other side. I'm really living through all of them.

(01:06:38):
So the songs they make when they throwing the guns
in there and m met A and they read I'm
living when I say I would be on stage. And
the joke is even to this day. If you ask
for what a my artists, they saw, where's Kevin stage?

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Right?

Speaker 8 (01:06:50):
I said, I alway, sudden, YO, tell me what the
ad lib you need me to make? If they jumped
in the crowd, I would jump in the crowd after
I was just it was just a fatherly kind of like, yo,
we cruise. So I never I never looked at it
like that. The time I got was kind of funny.
When a Kevin Mitchell was moving up, you know, he
did such a great job in the mid Atlantic, moving

(01:07:11):
up to Nashville, take Barbido's job right at Mickshew. So
they said, well, Kevin, you know you should come interview
for the job. I've been interning for two years doing
the job and y'all want me to come interview for
the job. Cool. So engineer keV had to come back out.

(01:07:33):
So I put my whole pack, I got my briefcases,
put my suit on, got my whole discography of everything,
got everything I did. I go up there. I'm sitting
in the room, so everybody laughing at me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Y'all in a suit was in a briefcase.

Speaker 8 (01:07:46):
I said, I came here to take the job. That's
what I came here to do. I'm gonna show him
everything that I've done. They said, well, you know, good interview,
you know great, and appreciate all the paperwork. One month
go by, two months go by, three months go by. Uh.
I'm starting to feel a certain way, right because I
know it's nobody better than me, especially in that area.
Nobody's better than me in that Philadelphia, DC, Baltimore, Virginia.

(01:08:09):
So then I get a call. I remember, Julie calls
me and says, Kevin Lowles was that of a marketing gig?
She said, this is Julie from Deaf jam and West's assistant.
We we think we want you to We want you
to come work with us. I said, great, I said.
She said, well, we want to pay you thirty thousand

(01:08:30):
dollars like you realize.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Make it okay?

Speaker 8 (01:08:34):
Okay? I said, well, I said, well I can work
with y'all for that. Julie said, no, you'll work for
us for that. That's my Julie's story. Yeah, so we
it's I just never worried about it. Man, What about
the money? Anything? To me?

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
That's interesting to hear because I, at least for me
Le or Lyles, Julie sometimes Mike, Like, all your names
are synonymous with each other. So you guys all started
together at death Jam minus Lee or at at in
lower positions, like when Julie came in?

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
When did she.

Speaker 8 (01:09:11):
Julie was Wes's was Julie was interning and working at Rush.
Then when when Leo went over to death Jam, Julie
came was working with Wes assistant Leo a little bit
and then started working with Wes. Mike Coser was working
at at Tower Records, and Russell lived on top of Tower.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Wait, that's how Mike got hurt.

Speaker 8 (01:09:35):
So he said, yo, you do you do a good
job with that? You know you want to do?

Speaker 7 (01:09:39):
Ready all wait a.

Speaker 11 (01:09:41):
Minute, I'm editing the story a little bit.

Speaker 8 (01:09:49):
But that's he met him in Tower Records and we
that's how he started. We read. I remember said I
was in Baltimore in I remember them saying, yo, you're
gonna do rhythm radio. And I'm like, well, damn, rhythm
radio is white. Why do you give it to the
car Why do they give it them? But they put
guys in the desks and so you're gonna do rhythm radio.

(01:10:09):
He became one of the number one rhythm radio you
know people out there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
And that's that's my I mean, did he have experience.

Speaker 8 (01:10:15):
He worked at Tower Records, like research.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
You know, that's the that's that's the truth.

Speaker 8 (01:10:21):
But yeah, but you gotta understand something with so every
time Julie went you know me, we were like brother
and sisters, you know what I mean. So it's like
that's like fam Like people talk about Lee. I never
I Leeo's the kind of guy if we went to
war today, he's gonna be throw me the fucking bullets.
I don't take offense to that because we're war.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
I understand.

Speaker 8 (01:10:43):
And it's intense that I understand.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
I don't.

Speaker 8 (01:10:46):
That's not you know what I mean, Not no idiot,
I say, that's he just never went there with me.
And but here's the other thing though, when he looked
to his right, when he looked stage right, he know
he ain't worry about that either. That's the different I'm not.
I'm gonna be there before him. I'm gonna make sure
everything's right to this day. I'm gonna make sure it's right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Russell.

Speaker 8 (01:11:06):
I'm gonna make sure it's right to this day. They
changed my life. They change the trajectory of my family,
They changed they they gave me first generation money something else, baby,
So I'm not always pay respect.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
To was did you really did you have a relationship
with Russell?

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
And where is Like if you think def Jam, you're
always gonna think Russell Simmons. But you know, I know
that in ninety one he had sort of this octopus
vision of developing the closed line and developing uh, defy
def comedy Jam was like more than ninety two ninety three, Yeah,

(01:11:44):
but still, uh, I know that the higher upset Sony
were kind of indifferent And then like, can you explain
the the ral here because the russ associate labels period.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
Because from my point.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Of view, as a fan who always read Billboard every
week and charted stuff, I always loved the fact and
kind of hated the fact that you guys dep GM
used to formally flaunt well, you know, we've only been
out for five years with five artists, and you know
it's just like ll the slick rick and that's it,
and then third base and then that's it. And then

(01:12:27):
one day in nineteen ninety it was like all these
Rust associated artists came.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Through the door Resident Alien and the Dawn. Yeah yeah,
oh yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
So with all with suddening, like twelve to thirteen acts
to deal with and kind of losing their uniqueness, what.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Do you know what the environment.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Was with with with Matola and Donnie Iron and the
Sony higher ups with def Jam and what caused the
eventual exodus to PolyGram was next correct, So what was
that period between ninety one and ninety three where things
were a little cloudy with what made def Jam wants

(01:13:11):
just the powerhouse.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
That it was like?

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
What was what was that environment like, especially like with
you and Russ, were you more a Leor guy or
a Rust guy?

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Like was Russ the Beatles? And Leor was the Rolling Stones?

Speaker 8 (01:13:23):
And you had to choose, never had to choose, because
Russell was a visionary Leor was tasked with. All I
wanted to do was be the greatest recommend He didn't
care about fat farm or comedy. That wasn't his thing.
You know. He really wanted to build a great American
record company, and at that time it was he got

(01:13:45):
the rock. So Russe associated labels quote unquote Russell and Leor.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
That's what I never knew that.

Speaker 8 (01:13:58):
It was Russell, that the Russell lear So it was
just before it's time. Now, I'm gonna sound kind of
nerdy here. Sometimes as visionaries you try to put things
into uh play that it's not just time. We didn't

(01:14:20):
have the infrastructure built to support a quote unquote associated
label venture. But if you think about four or five
years later, after the infrastructure stability, people came to work
and all that kind of stuff, we were able to
do Rockefeller America and piece it was. It was a
great vision, but the in too early, too early at
the time because the infrastructure.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
It gave me hope.

Speaker 8 (01:14:43):
The infrastructure wasn't right, but it was those days. Man,
Like I said, everybody want you know, Rick was gone
and everybody wanted to prove they were the next upgrade
an R and this one knew this one. But the
real fact that most of the artists that I've ever
signed in my life were referred to me by other artists.

Speaker 7 (01:15:00):
Hmm, like, wait, we're not going to get there, he
let me.

Speaker 8 (01:15:05):
Did you say, I'm saying like that? That was really like,
if you think about it, to me, a six degrees
of separation you want to you got E. P and
D on the road and his kid kurrn uh scratches crates.
His name is Redman. Yeah, I mean I can you
know Shaka Zulu, who we both know worked for me,

(01:15:27):
was at the college radio station. He had a friend
called Chris Love of Lover who was on the radio.
He wanted to you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
You lived in Atlanta as well.

Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
I transferred from Morgan and went to see a three
for Brad Street where he was. He was against Chris
Love a Lover and Poon Daddy and La.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
I don't trust nobody that has more than twelve addresses before.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
By the way, I'm going to continue.

Speaker 8 (01:15:57):
So no, it's like, so I always met people through
other people, and it wasn't until the whole research thing
came that I started to see things outside of the
people that I knew. But I knew everybody who knew
you could touch somebody with any you know. We just uh,

(01:16:18):
I can't say. But there's this kid that is going
up someplace right now and we just did a big
did a deal with him and it's we heard it.
Somebody said it was popping and we got in and
got it, you know first. So it's like it's changing now.
But I really believe we got to I got to
kill Johnny Stevens from Holly Suspect rock band, number one

(01:16:39):
rock record right now. I believe he's gonna find the
next star in rock. I believe that we did the
deal with Young Thug for ys L. I believe that
Young Thug puts out so much music and everybody wants
to held track he is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
And so I just believe you believe you believe in
connectors and bridges. Yes, yes, that's an important thing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
It is important.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
So when def jam, what was the what was the
transferring from leaving Sony to PolyGram?

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
Were you at all worried.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
That you guys might lose your cachet or your uniqueness,
or that it might go under or having to deal
with like who is who is the Matola in the
the Donnie iron Or of PolyGram at this point when
you guys go there in ninety four.

Speaker 8 (01:17:33):
Mm, Wow, the Hitten distribution was Jim Capeo. I think, uh,
who is the Wow? I really, honestly, I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
Damn is that bad?

Speaker 8 (01:17:47):
That bad? My mind is that bad?

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:17:50):
I can't remember. Let me tell you what I never
you put you put Leo and Russell together. I don't
see how you feel. So I never didn't. I see.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
How was it that Sony just didn't understand them or No?

Speaker 8 (01:18:06):
I think it was we were welcome. You can yell
at people so much to a point where people might
and you understand, this was early early days of our culture,
you know. And so you're going up into Tommy's.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Has there been a Tommy Lee or a moment of
sandwiches exchanged?

Speaker 8 (01:18:35):
I never saw. I never saw it. Heard about some conversations,
you know, I heard Russell flipped over a couple of
deaths and things like that, but I never never experienced myself.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Wow, Okay, So I know that at least my perception
is that in ninety four, the the anchor record of
that year that really established def jam to the next
decade was Orange's album.

Speaker 8 (01:19:03):
Now it was written let me tell you really what
it was, the first record we released from Columbia to
program something the PolyGram Domino. It was Saturday Morning, Yeah,
Ghetto Jam, Ghetto Jam.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
So by that point, you know, you were heavy at
least in your your knowledge of East Coast from you know,
the Baltimore. I would assume that you were the d
m V guy, the Tri State area guy you might
have known down south markets. Did you know West Coast
at all? Like who was there to really let you

(01:19:43):
guys know? Or was it just like the chronics ripple
was so strong that it was like we gotta grab
whoever guessed.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
It on Doctor Dre's chronic record and give them a deal. Now, Like.

Speaker 8 (01:19:55):
I mean, I'm saying I can't put it so you
can me open them hip hop So n w A,
you couldn't talk too short that. I'm like, I was fan.
I was a fan. I'm young still I'm a fan.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
So to me, wait, I just want to say, as
an East Coaster, I want to meet a person that
had my my viewpoint on what the West Coast.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Was because I wasn't getting I wasn't open to West
Coast hippop.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
I mean until I mean I heard fuck the police,
and like I gave him. Okay, I'll give you guys
an exception and ice cue working with the bomb squad,
But like, for the most part, there's no way you
could tell me that the West Coast was going to
outdo the East Coast ever culturally.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
Or sales wise.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
And then suddenly one day it was like New York
just lost it's it's it's steemed.

Speaker 8 (01:20:50):
Yeah, but why can't you tell I never looked again.

Speaker 12 (01:20:52):
Well, I was young and dumb, weirdo, because I looked
at it the story that needed to be told needed
to be told by different tongues, and a Baltimore story
in New York story.

Speaker 8 (01:21:04):
There's still a ghetto story in the West everywhere you know,
never where you go. And so to me, I really
looked at it as storytelling. Now one was a joke,
but then there was the police, but they both saying
kind of the same thing to me. So I really
looked at it as storytelling. And we went into it
with def jam West Paul Stewart. UH hired P and

(01:21:28):
P hired him. First record I think was this is
how we do it. But prior to that, this is
how I learned the West Coast. There was a group
called a guy called Mellow from Compton and a group
called South Central Cartel Original. So they said they want

(01:21:53):
to do a West Coast promo tour and they loved
how I put together promo toys. UH and so I
got in a car. We went from Seattle all the
way down to San Diego. Over to Phoenix in Colorado.
You canna tell me nothing about that. I know the
West Coast, I wrote the Bible of what should be done.

(01:22:14):
But I hung. I was in Compton. I remember my
first I'm gonna tell you what. Sorry, I'm gonna let
you go. I'm in Compton and it we call but
you know their version of the bodega. So I'm getting
some ice tea back then, and bottles started checking. So
I'm like, who the fuck is back there? What the

(01:22:36):
fuck are you doing? I'm mad, Like, yo, stop sucking
with me. The lady said, in the middle of an earthquake,
And that was the north Ridge.

Speaker 4 (01:22:51):
Big So you was in the corner store.

Speaker 7 (01:22:56):
I was in Compton. I said, what you know why?

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Because I got them started.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
Damn you know every references commercial goodness.

Speaker 8 (01:23:13):
I don't know I told that story but that. But
that's my love, my love for I lived there twice
in my life, and now I just appreciate storytellers being
able to tell that, no matter what it was. I
just appreciated people telling the story.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
So, I mean you had no Internet back then. I
mean now anyone could have the power. I mean the
power that you had googling something finding out? Okay, where
can I, uh you know, where can I promote this
record or hang these posters or or bring my group
to meet those things?

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
But you you're.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
Saying you're writing the Bible on this, Like how do
who's giving you your research to know this particular market?
That particular market, this particular market.

Speaker 8 (01:23:55):
Like touching the people? You tell you you you find
a hot girl and the god the hustler, and you
go and you go to the mall. You say, where
y'all going to?

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
This was real? You generally like people.

Speaker 7 (01:24:11):
Because because we were to take.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
We were to take a quest Love Supremes. All right,
Slight Detour Special World twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Do you like people?

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Oh, sugar Steve, do you like people?

Speaker 5 (01:24:29):
I love good people. I hate shitheads.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
You're lying out already know you hate people everyone?

Speaker 4 (01:24:40):
I love people?

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
You know I do?

Speaker 4 (01:24:41):
I love people?

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
Bill? Do you believe it? I don't believe anything, she says, Margaret.

Speaker 6 (01:24:47):
I mean you've lived in too many places to tell perk.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
I think I think unpaid Bill is the only person
in the circle that actually likes.

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
But you know what I think. I mean just from
my people for the record. Now I'm with you. I
love you guys, not with you this what's the same
hell as other people. But no, I think from listening
to what he's saying, from what he was saying, you
know when you're talking about how it wasn't about you know,
I plan to be the president. You just want to
add value to a situation, that value proposition.

Speaker 8 (01:25:22):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
And so to me, like I'm in that way, like
I don't do I like people know, but if you
give me a job and say do this job, then
I'll do what I gotta do because I want to
deliver on the job. So if I got to go
talk to people, if I can't, just look how many
followers through this, nigga got like I gotta really actually
do that, I would do that. So it makes it
makes sense. My joint is like, all.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
Right, my my goal And this is not like a
thing where you're singing riches and all that stuff. But
in general, my thing was always like, yo, I just
want to take care of my mom.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
And sugar Steve.

Speaker 5 (01:26:03):
Reparations for the diabetes.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
No, just take care of my mom. Put out some fires. Yeah,
and sure Steve put out some fires. Was basically take
care of If you're black, you're automatically taking carefully seven
to fourteen people in your life just to put out
the fire, you know, Like, did I think back in

(01:26:30):
nineteen ninety eight, like okay, let me, oh, I'm gonna
be on the late night show one time? You know, No,
hell no, I didn't. Somebody sees that far though, I
get you not seeing that, but you do kind of
have this live each day's the fullest connect with people,
remember names, you know, and never burn a bridge.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
At like I don't hear.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
Kevin Lowell stories like I hear and I'm gonna get
to you and dame history, but I never hear Kevin
Lowle stories like I hear.

Speaker 4 (01:27:11):
Like is he really that nice as he perceives?

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
Not even nice?

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
But I mean, like your reputation even even if like
like there's not even rumors about you doing someone shady
or any.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Of those things.

Speaker 8 (01:27:26):
I tell you, so some people with Here's what I
get from people. I might not remember everybody's name, but
obviously it's like like tonight, I have to get something
from each one of you guys, or why be in
the room. So I'm meeting you and sharing things, and

(01:27:49):
I'm meeting people all over the world but obviously God
put me in that place for reasons, so I have
to share a part of myself. So I wear my
heart on my sleeve. When you wear your hard and
the sleeve, you fear none. You just don't worry about
You just make people feel like they met you, not
like you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:09):
Just But what about the ship heads.

Speaker 5 (01:28:11):
You're not talking about the ship heads.

Speaker 8 (01:28:13):
So so let me tell you about ship I met
a couple of of ship heads. But but I even
understand them. Some people that's the only way they could survive.
And so, and I'm not trying to get philosophical, will
be this is what we do. I just, I just

(01:28:33):
I really believe that I was put here for a
greater purpose, and that purpose might Jesus. Jesus walked amongst
the thieves, the killers, the liars to make away ship
here's cool' You're not gonna change. You're not gonna change

(01:28:53):
who I am. Matter of fact, I'm gonna work on
being so nice, so nice that hopefully you understand that
you don't need to be as much of a ship.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
Hit as well. I wish I knew you. Is that
like where my first GM audition?

Speaker 6 (01:29:15):
Anyway, I want to get some motivational speaking from lyles
like in the morning when awake up.

Speaker 4 (01:29:18):
Yeah, exactly, But seriously, how do you maintain that? Is
that is that motivation? Motivation? Is medita or was that
you was it?

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Is this hindsight speaking or is this in nineteen ninety four?
I'm not well, Okay, Now I want to get to
the artist you have to deal with because or you
got to put on that ship to use right, because
I'm saying that as an artist, I know the the
plight of the artist, and I know the plight of

(01:29:48):
employee at the label and management company. And some of
the biggest clashes ever in mankind are are with artists
and managers or the other side of the table. So
that said, uh, okay, now that def jam is ten
years old at least in this timeline, how are the

(01:30:11):
older established well minus Ll who actually weird enough, had
the biggest mark of his career ten years into his career.
I mean, I assume that missus Smith's surpassed. Mama said,
knock you out as far as comebacks to concerned. But
I mean, at this rate, a lot of your first
generation acts, you guys were dealing with Slick Rick and

(01:30:34):
his his jail incidents.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
First of all, how.

Speaker 1 (01:30:39):
How did you guys even manage to get eighteen songs
out of Slick Rick with six weeks of his life
before he's about to do five years or herd?

Speaker 8 (01:30:52):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
What was that? What was that period?

Speaker 8 (01:30:54):
Like? I was a that was more so like a
intern period. It for me, you know, I was just
coming up and the Slick Rick story was. Rick was
a storyteller, so he just knew he had to do
write a lot of records. And it was man. He
would no, he would listen when I tell you Rick

(01:31:17):
and Rick is a good, good friend. And I hope
I answered the question right because it's I'm gonna go
outside of Rick. I think my job at that time
was to preserve legacy with those guys and understand that
that tired. You put the D in death jam, public enemy,
you put the E in death jam, Slick Rick, you
put the F in death jam. You know I had

(01:31:39):
to so I treated them like that. I didn't treat
them like they were old. I didn't treat them like
they were yesterday. I treat them like they were important
and today. And this is why to this day, you know,
Rick and Mandya called me and say hey, we just
wanted to tell you we love you. Tired to say yo,
you know, come me and Simone doing this chucker hit

(01:31:59):
me and say yo podcasts with you know, I still
get and and so that moment. And I remember when
we did behind Bars, he was like, you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
Know, yeah, war you know that was my ship man.
I love that joy. That was.

Speaker 8 (01:32:17):
How'd y'all do that? How'd y'all make a record? And
then I did it again with Sean when he was
behind Bars. I did his.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
Uh that the Godfather Buried Alive?

Speaker 8 (01:32:29):
Yes, I did it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
And when they're recording under this dress, like how I'm
just trying to figure out, how are they able to
even produce uh results with with with that imaginary guns
in their head like they have to.

Speaker 8 (01:32:50):
I don't think when you when it's when it's it's
what you do. It's like saying telling a guy you
got to build a house in the set of a year,
you got to build it in six month. It might
be impossibly, he still knows how to build a house.
And so I think that I think that at the
end of the day, these uh, these kids, I think
that the day they they felt that they gonna decide
to feed their family. And when you how you when

(01:33:12):
you're working to feed your family, you're not writing records right,
you're surviving, you know. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:33:18):
Speaking of behind Bars, I gotta give a shout out
to the warrant you remix to.

Speaker 2 (01:33:24):
This is behind Bars on Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
We're here with U, super Guru, Kevin question of Supreme.

Speaker 11 (01:33:32):
You are bro check this out this warn g you
know what I'm saying. Chilling with my man slick Rick,
you know, and we're gonna give y'all a little tail
about that jail stuff. You know, So, Rick, why don't
you running homie kids?

Speaker 12 (01:33:43):
Then Islamic colord, I'm innocent, Lord played which he wasn't
having anything out and raised the lads.

Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
Situation seemed mad and Roles, Hey your money?

Speaker 8 (01:33:52):
What size?

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
Neither pony to one of us sprang up. That was
behind bars by a slick Rick. That's right, the Warren
g remix of behind Bars on Questlove Supreme. There's one
question I want to ask you. So by this point

(01:34:14):
in ninety four, I can say that you're safely in
the death Sham office not an intern.

Speaker 2 (01:34:21):
What was.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
What was you guys reaction to music.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
In our message by Public Enemy. Oh my god, because.

Speaker 1 (01:34:31):
I remember the day. I remember the day that Ursula
Smith and well back when Set to Run, you guys
had so many Rush associated companies, but when Ursula became
her own publicity firm, she was our first, the roots

(01:34:53):
first publicist, and I used to just always hang out
her office and she called me in says or I
got the new Public Enemy album, you want to hear it?

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
And that was.

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
That was one of the most coldest days ever because
because every Public Enemy album from nation to millions, well
every there's three right, yeah, before I forgot what even
with bum rust the show, Like every time I listened
to a Public Enemy album for the first time, it

(01:35:28):
was such a life changing moment and for me it
was like, wow, can.

Speaker 2 (01:35:32):
They do this to me for a fifth time? The no,
the answer was yes, but it was it was in
the wrong way. But in hindsight.

Speaker 1 (01:35:45):
They were onto something because they were five years before
the rage against the machine, you know rock wrap thing.
But I mean I had the same reaction that had
the same open mouth drawl jopped are they allowed to
do this?

Speaker 2 (01:36:01):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:36:01):
It was such a radical album? What were you guys?
Please be explained.

Speaker 2 (01:36:08):
Chuck's been very honest.

Speaker 1 (01:36:09):
About how you guys felt about it when you got
the record.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
What did y'all talk.

Speaker 8 (01:36:17):
About didn't know what to do?

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
Like did Chuck played in front of you guys and
looked at your faces or just like didn't know what
to do because at least like, okay, figure that I
can work with that.

Speaker 8 (01:36:35):
I don't know what but but but but here's the
great thing about Gren about deaf Tam. Once you proved yourself,
who am I to judge? That's where we're going. I
don't know what to do, but okay, we're gonna see
what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
Well, it was also well not the second the last album,
because that was he got game. But well, like there
was there was just no precedent for I mean, there
was the Goats. You know, the Goats were kind of mixing,
they were rocking and wrapped and raised against the machine,
had one album out beforehand. But did you guys at

(01:37:16):
least have a warning that you know, because by that point,
even even though I mean, Wu Tang still wasn't a
fully formed figurehead and you know, the group that we
will worship, so in my mind, like Public Enemy still
had run DMC status to that point.

Speaker 2 (01:37:39):
In ninety four and then.

Speaker 1 (01:37:43):
I don't know, maybe I just felt they were so
angry at Were they angry at you guys?

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
Were they angry?

Speaker 8 (01:37:50):
Was it just like a lot of anger, a lot
of anger.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
What was the relationship like?

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
Because I would think that they were your crown jewel,
like you know this, this is the group that gets
the white critics respect, and.

Speaker 8 (01:38:06):
They always they always would be the crown jewel. But
you you gotta understand when when your kids and you
grow up together, sometimes a big brother little brother thing
comes into to play. And when you finally got a
point where you sold the Left records, you want to
do what you want to do too, So a lot

(01:38:26):
of that has to had to you gotta they were
young kids, man, you're talking about back then, you know
Todd fifteen sixteen, and they going all over the world,
you know what I mean, public enemy, you know, people
with them, people not with them, people against them, people
they fighting wars that you know, Griff, I guess it's

(01:38:49):
so much so you had to allow that to happen.
And what I I'll see and talk to you about it.
But when a rock act or a pop act, when
they make that album that you don't what's that. We
just say it was just a time for them. Republican
had that moment again. They were early. I'm with you,

(01:39:10):
they were just early and we wasn't built for that.
We just wasn't built for it. And that was the
and but that was the expression. So who were we
to judge?

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
Was their disappointment and their end of you guys not
finding because even then I just thought like, oh, they're over,
they lost.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
It, and I had no clue that. It was later.

Speaker 1 (01:39:33):
When I found out, like, oh, because Ursula, their publicists
had to figure out how to market them, and somehow
she got glowing reviews out of Vibe magazine and the
well tore roasted them with like a two star review
of Rolling Stone. But for the most part, she got
a lot of rock alternative press love that I wasn't

(01:39:54):
even expecting them to get. And thus they started slowly
creeping in to alternative tours out the norm that lane
for them, right, not just rap sures like like oh okay,
there are see white people and rockheads that want.

Speaker 2 (01:40:10):
To hear bring the noise right this stuff And I didn't.

Speaker 8 (01:40:13):
That was that was the message to you. You could
in hip hop create many lanes and what they did
was you got to think back then, nobody was thinking that,
even with Beastie being what it was, nobody would ever
think Pee would go there. You know what I mean,

(01:40:34):
you got a certain thing from Pe. You know what
I mean, nobody ever thought they would go there. But
what what I just Chuck was saying, And again I
can't quote it because I don't remember that this is
where we are. It's just where we are.

Speaker 1 (01:40:49):
One of the more amazing comeback stories in my mind
for Death Chair was that mister Smith album and I
did I personally didn't think he could do it a
third time. You know, it's like no, well, it's like yes, yes,
initial well his initial l nel l elness run And

(01:41:12):
even though I was a fan of walking with the Panther.

Speaker 2 (01:41:15):
They were the only one in the room.

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
Look, it came out the last day of school. It
was a special home and I graduated. That was my
soundtrack of the summer.

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
I like dropping them.

Speaker 1 (01:41:26):
And then and then uh, you know, mom said, knock
you Out was like the comeback, even though we weren't
supposed to call that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:33):
And then, you know, once.

Speaker 1 (01:41:37):
The thing was I read the source review of fourteen
Shots Shots.

Speaker 8 (01:41:45):
Which Backseat was on fourteen.

Speaker 2 (01:41:48):
Yeah, backseat and how coming? What was the other scene?

Speaker 1 (01:41:52):
But not that remix? The remix was not on that record.
The remix wasn't had that remix, but on the record.
I would have gave it something different and the right
I would get a half. But you know, I mean,
the legend is that Russell lost his mind at the
Source review and words were exchanged and all this stuff.

Speaker 8 (01:42:10):
But all that happened pretty much.

Speaker 1 (01:42:12):
People counted Ell out, and I guess he wisely just
stayed silent for a year, all of ninety four, and
then uh, the first we saw him with his new
ball head and stuff was in the Flavor in Your
Ear remix. So was there was there a marketing plan too.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
Two bring Ll back? Or was it just like there's some.

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
Spaghetti and throw it on the wall and see what sticks.

Speaker 8 (01:42:42):
Todd And if you speak to him, he'll tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:42:45):
Let me tell you something phenomenal, phenomenal.

Speaker 8 (01:42:53):
He was like his good luck charm and the Smith,
mister Smith, you know, Chris. That was the last Todd
album we worked on together because he left soon after that.

(01:43:14):
You gotta understand something L L Cool day is hot.
I usually DJ Man you couldn't tell me now, no,
rapp up, I was a fan fan, So you mean
to tell me that llll no, that's he's He was
hakon to me. I wanted to Todd, So there was

(01:43:35):
no way that he was then. He was that. He
was always going to be this to me, To me,
so I treated him like that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
And you're saying this means you're pointing up on a
higher level.

Speaker 8 (01:43:46):
Yeah, he God, he was always that to me and
so to me. I never looked at it as him
making a comeback. I thought every album was an experimentation
of where he was as an artist and certain things
he tried. You know what I mean, because even on
fourteen Shots, you know, I was trying to say, your

(01:44:08):
back back seat is the record, you guys, is the
back seat is the record? I said that Pink Cookie,
what we talked talk We gotta have a conversation about.

Speaker 1 (01:44:15):
That, that backseat.

Speaker 8 (01:44:20):
Yeah, I said, we had that real conversation, but it
was I have to be honest with you. That is
why today we're still friends, because we went through every
moment that you can go through. I remember when when
he dropped Headstrong uh record and he uh that was

(01:44:45):
his last number one album, two hundred thousand copies, and
he called me and said, you always believed in me.
You never stopped believing in me. I'm gonna love you
better record, he said, you never stopped until this day.
Just so I never looked at it like come back
and come that. I never looked because again, these were

(01:45:08):
they were friends too. So what you know now, do
we have to go to work? Do we have to
do things differently? Do we had to go see different Yeah?
We had to do that. But that's what it's all about.
To me, That's what evolution is all about. It's not
about I'd rather have the hard time. How about this?
Let me do that because you can remember me. You
gonna know I went there, was with you the whole
time and figured it out with you.

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
So for a record like mister Smith, and for the
potential singles that it had, there's one important element in
the story that we kind of didn't mention, which was
the the the uprise and the power that a certain
New York radio station had, which was Hot ninety seven.

Speaker 2 (01:45:54):
Hope I'm allowed to say that, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
On my own show, Scott Ye was that allowed?

Speaker 2 (01:46:01):
They're good? Okay? Okay? I just need to be technical.

Speaker 1 (01:46:09):
Not that I would expect you to give me the
dirty low down, but I mean, by this point, especially
with nineteen ninety six coming up in the race, what's
the telecommunications that?

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:46:26):
Tell god, what the fuck? You like a paralegal? You
you deserve your own noise?

Speaker 2 (01:46:38):
Don't for a fact check? That was and then you
looked at the fact checker.

Speaker 1 (01:46:50):
I know that you guys were playing to win. I
know that by this point bad boys really established, trying
to established themselves as as the sheriff of the block.

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
Oh god, I didn't even mention death Row.

Speaker 1 (01:47:08):
You know, there are other labels that are vying for
that number one spot, and we know that. And for
the most part, in an hour, you could probably squeeze
in six to seven songs. You guys are starting your
muscle period at least of you know of about to
you know, show what No.

Speaker 7 (01:47:30):
But I'm just saying that it's true though.

Speaker 4 (01:47:35):
That's a nice way to say it.

Speaker 1 (01:47:38):
You know, is this some Mars Levy Part two?

Speaker 2 (01:47:41):
Things like.

Speaker 1 (01:47:43):
How do you muscle radio to stay on your side?

Speaker 2 (01:47:48):
Like?

Speaker 8 (01:47:48):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:47:49):
Yo, I'm really feeling that song doing it? Okay, I'm
gonna just play it a whole forty two billion times?
Or is it a new level of taking hands and
kiss some babies that you probably can't technically get into?

Speaker 2 (01:48:05):
Like has that ever stopped? U?

Speaker 8 (01:48:08):
Let me let me say this to you. And I
couldn't say this, not one thing but Hot ninety seven
with okay with I'm telling him he's actually about how
we talked Hot ninety.

Speaker 1 (01:48:22):
Seven right, Well yeah, I mean, well, you know, we
live in New York City and Hot ninety seven is
the station that if flex is feeling it, then chances.

Speaker 2 (01:48:32):
Are that the ripple effect's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
And this guy in Cleveland's going to play it, this
station Seattle's going to play it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
But the thing is is that.

Speaker 1 (01:48:43):
I I wouldn't believe that. Okay, a fan is calling in, Yes,
I need to hear doing it by llo Like.

Speaker 8 (01:48:52):
Again, let me give you the truth though, So.

Speaker 1 (01:48:54):
Like you, you're you're a guy that had hits, You
have hits under your belt. How do you make sure
those hits keep coming and that they're and I mean,
like a song for you, A good day of radio
rotation is how many times at its height, how many
times do you want your hit song played?

Speaker 2 (01:49:17):
A day on one station? Is it thirty five times
a day?

Speaker 8 (01:49:21):
I don't think any one particular record will play thirty
five times a day, because if it did, it would
play thirty five times seven whatever. But let me give
you this.

Speaker 1 (01:49:30):
And I'm not This is not a hostile gotcha question, No,
I just I just want to know that the science
of how like for me growing up and remembering radio,
it was like the DJ wants to be the cool dude,
and hey, I'm gonna put you onto this record. Oh,
I might play this album cut where Now it's like,
I don't think you know you guys, A label would

(01:49:52):
frown on an album cut, Like if it were up
to me playing mister Smith, I would play that no airplay,
play right airplace you wouldn't play, y'all, No, I see,
I would play the Eric Eric Sarmon remix the thing
I actually girl, you know it's true and didn't get

(01:50:14):
caught and I don't want to mention it and get
a lawsuit on I'm going to say that. Okay, a
record like doing it, what are you expecting? Hot ninety seven?
How many times do you want to hear it in
a twenty four hour period? Heavy rotation I mean, is

(01:50:35):
that eighteen times a day?

Speaker 8 (01:50:37):
So I think at that particular time that was probably
most probably sixty two times in a week.

Speaker 2 (01:50:43):
So if you oh, so you're going by week, you're
not going by.

Speaker 8 (01:50:45):
Daily, no, because that you because program changed over the weekend.
They go to weekend programming. It's it's different stuff. And
back then it was call out, you know what I mean?
Where if the record called out? And then it still
is now and now it's PPM and all these ferent
kind of metrics and that are going on. But I
have to say what people forgot and what we try

(01:51:05):
to radio was the last stop with us. Okay, we're
doing it of ques. If you came to the tunnel
with me and heard what cap did God rest his
soul in the walking hour? And then what flex did
doing it? Drinks got spilled everys soon as that beginning

(01:51:28):
came on, it was and we made all made sure
all our records that we went to radio with they
had to get. We called it the tunnel tests. If
you play between twelve and three o'clock and the tunnel
get at me dog. When we dropped out of the door,
we knew it wasn't going to be a big radio record,

(01:51:49):
but it lit the tunnel up redmen the method man
how no no, yeah, rock water those the two verses
and the but you go when you went to the
tunnel the place with And so my thing is, so,

(01:52:10):
who do you.

Speaker 1 (01:52:11):
Have to convince at whatever radios? And I'm not even
gonna sing on Hot ninety seven, who do you have
to convince?

Speaker 2 (01:52:18):
At?

Speaker 1 (01:52:18):
First of all, are you at this point talking to
a Clear Channel person who control or who controls one
hundred staces across the area.

Speaker 8 (01:52:29):
Then back then, so you had individual individual program directors.
So back then it was Steve Smith and Tracy Clardy
at Hot ninety seven. Today is THEO Mitcham and g
where's at power one oh five? Just for New York.
I mean there's a lot of but then there's now
there's clusters too. So THEA runs a cluster, and there's

(01:52:49):
Doc Winner who runs the urban cluster for all of
Clear Channel, and then there's Jay Stevens for Radio one cluster,
and then Ken Johnsen and foot one of those down
the south whatever. So it's it's clustered now, but back
then it was individual program director. Is the music directors?

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:53:09):
So I'll say a few episodes back, we have Former
President Beat Former Still President and BT.

Speaker 2 (01:53:18):
No I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:53:19):
It is February and Stephen Hill mentioned one of his
regrets when he first worked at MTV was that he
probably could have lit a fire under them to really
give more support to your all. I need to get

(01:53:39):
by by Method Man and Marriag J Blige and now
in my head, I was like, wait, that record was everywhere,
So of course he's like nope, He's like, it could
have been even stronger. It could have been so much
more and bigger and way ubiquitous. So for a record
like that, you know, how do you convince? First of all,

(01:54:05):
why would people resist? Why would people have resistance to
it because it was just an unorthodox sounding street song.

Speaker 8 (01:54:12):
Or I think method Man had more to do why
people didn't go immediately on that record.

Speaker 1 (01:54:20):
I was just like, oh, this is an instant hit.

Speaker 8 (01:54:22):
It was an instant hit. But you got to understand something.
So back then people wanted to be safe, and method
Man wasn't safe for them.

Speaker 2 (01:54:34):
That wasn't safe.

Speaker 8 (01:54:35):
The record was safe. Method Man the personality also, yes, yes, yes, listen,
I had a record. So I'm gonna give you a
uh I would say, what you know, migos right now,

(01:54:56):
record bad bad, and Bougie.

Speaker 1 (01:54:58):
About to say, yes, life has changed for you since
Donald Glover a long time ago during the one or
two back gave a shout out now, shout out.

Speaker 8 (01:55:10):
To Donald Glover. G So we couldn't get migos on
late night TV.

Speaker 2 (01:55:21):
Mm hmm, bro, I'll talk to you about that.

Speaker 8 (01:55:26):
But we couldn't. We couldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:55:29):
I would love them.

Speaker 8 (01:55:30):
Magazines couldn't get certain things, and so the group was like,
well why can't, why can't we? And then a moment
happened and now everybody fighting over everybody, And so I
can only say this to you to say Radio didn't
see them. There's a club group. You know. Radio didn't

(01:55:52):
see them a certain way. TV didn't see him a
certain way. And you gotta think about method man.

Speaker 4 (01:56:00):
At that time, he was kind of dirty looking.

Speaker 8 (01:56:04):
He started to cook. That was the moment we started
to clean them up.

Speaker 2 (01:56:07):
I thought he was the accessible.

Speaker 4 (01:56:09):
But can I just say, just for the record, somebody
pred told me once that the Roots didn't have enough personality,
Like if you really think that is not like that?
It's like really, And I was like, what are you
talking about that. I told you that, like what are
you talking about? But does this and you'd be surprised
that the whole personality thing.

Speaker 1 (01:56:27):
Just well, that's the thing, like what really determines a hit?
Like can we because you know, I came from an
era where it was like, hey, if we just get
somebody sing some R and b H, you guys are
going to have a hit. And that's not necessarily the case.
And then you know it's like if you fall into

(01:56:50):
a nepotism loop.

Speaker 2 (01:56:52):
Okay, let's take Foxy.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
Brownsment I shot you was her first appearance or was it?

Speaker 2 (01:57:01):
Ain't? No, Like no, got shot you? Was not anything five.

Speaker 8 (01:57:05):
I think I think that shot to be honest with you,
I think her first appearance was I shot you and
then it was ain't. No. It's twenty years ago, so it.

Speaker 1 (01:57:15):
Would have been would have been a hard sale for
you guys to push got to get you home or
or uh uh uh, I'll be good, I'll be the
angel right. Would have been harder for you guys to
promote her had she not had the nepotism association of

(01:57:36):
being on a Posse cut, doing first, doing a good
job on a Possey cut. But I don't even think
doing a good job or doing a bad job even
matters today in two thousand and six times, But no,
back then, it was like, oh shit, she right and
she looked good. So this is a can't lose situation,

(01:57:57):
like to break out an artist of that level? Was
it a hard cell? Like do you have to have
pinpoint board and whiteboard and do all these like mathematic
theories for radio programmers to see your vision on a
Foxy Brown or a job someone to unprove it.

Speaker 8 (01:58:17):
So it's okay. So our secret sauce was we never
worked just the record. We always believed we were working
a brand. So Foxy wasn't about what was the record, uh,
the big record get your Home? It wasn't just get

(01:58:39):
you home. It was about as much as get you
home as a shatcha. It was both. It was the
same amount of effort because we were building a brand,
and in building a brand you gotta lay a solid foundation.
So it's never about radio. To me, it was just
not the radio became Okay, I got the street lot,
I got the sheet. People respect it. Okay, we put
it with this person, Okay, we put on this tour. Okay,

(01:59:00):
now we ready for.

Speaker 1 (01:59:01):
That, But does it help to also have the deft
cham logo in other words like uh, well not.

Speaker 2 (01:59:10):
Have you ever got what's what's it? What's what's a.

Speaker 1 (01:59:14):
Heartbreaking know that you got during your stretch? Okay, Jay
hates and I think he does it just to be asshole.
Sometimes he hates in my lifetime, like just the I
think you know.

Speaker 2 (01:59:30):
I don't like it. Whatever Volume one, Volume one, yeah, yeah, yeah,
well no, no.

Speaker 8 (01:59:36):
No, is that the one that had touched my heart?

Speaker 2 (01:59:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:59:41):
Sunshine now doing like Sunshine? How are you guys working Sunshine?
And to the point where now Dame's like, yo, we
got to make a street movie real quick and get
him back to home base and establish the street cred
because I didn't even see it as like, oh, you're
losing your street cred by rhyming over with Babyface.

Speaker 8 (02:00:04):
It was reach but wait, it's.

Speaker 1 (02:00:12):
It's almost like I'm sorry only because the Flaming Lips
were recently on The Tonight Show a long time ago,
and I think about the whole New I think about
the whole New Rock Uh Flaming Lips video fiasco where
it's like where it was like that was, and I'm like,

(02:00:32):
you shot the video with him, like, how did you
not know that? But for me, he recorded the record,
he made the video and he was obviously reaching.

Speaker 3 (02:00:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:43):
It's like it's a committee. Like Nick, It's like saying
I accidentally posted a picture Instagram. I know you didn't
you know how many steps to take the post picture Instagram?

Speaker 8 (02:00:49):
I think he experimented, made made a record.

Speaker 1 (02:00:55):
But why could a song like Sunshine, which by the
numbers should have won.

Speaker 2 (02:01:02):
But that's just wasn't a good song though like that,
but what is a good song? During that period? It
effective or not right that it was ineffective.

Speaker 1 (02:01:11):
But the thing is is that Okay, give me, okay,
what's that I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:01:21):
Trying to think, give me, give me, give me a job.
Will either put it on me or I mean all
of them, job put on me? You want to do?
I do sample everybody living it up? That was the
living it up. It's the formula.

Speaker 1 (02:01:37):
Okay, okay, let's take a living I actually would give
the advantage to living it up. But I'm trying to
think of like just a hit for def Jam that.

Speaker 2 (02:01:48):
Was like it's a hit. Uh, okay, let's go with
Gotta Get You Home? That was That was a jam.
Well it was it because it was a hit. It
was like you were told Illmatic was a classic? Was
it a classic? You instantly?

Speaker 1 (02:02:08):
You were told instantly I read it Illmatic right, it
was like it's almost.

Speaker 2 (02:02:13):
Like like your hand was forced on it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:15):
Like why why wasn't Why wasn't the machine that built
by nineteen ninety seven, you guys had a formula so
amazingly like bulletproof.

Speaker 2 (02:02:29):
Why couldn't that work for Sunshine?

Speaker 8 (02:02:33):
Because I believe good records work and bad ones don't.

Speaker 2 (02:02:41):
Wow, that shit won't.

Speaker 8 (02:02:47):
And by the way, like the record, and I worked
the record, I was mad at people, y'all not gonna
play Babyface Foxy and y'all not gonna play that, and
I took offense to it. But the art of being
a promo guy, there will be another record. I'm never
worried about whether people would uh play the record or not,

(02:03:10):
because I'm gonna come back with him back and guess
what Jay's next album. I reminded him.

Speaker 1 (02:03:17):
Okay, wait, wait, wait, time out time, because I really
want to talk to you about your rock and feller
relationship with Damon Dash and I know you're so tired
of talking about the jackets and argument.

Speaker 8 (02:03:28):
I was never tired of talking about the jackets.

Speaker 2 (02:03:30):
He was.

Speaker 8 (02:03:34):
To day.

Speaker 1 (02:03:34):
So he comes at you, guys with the song that's
like seventy seven beats per minute. It wasn't even it
wasn't even a jam. So right, life, what in my
life is a hard song to blend in mixing. It's

(02:03:59):
very slow in today's environment where the average song is
eighty two. Yeah, like she could work in twenty sixteen,
but back in nineteen ninety eight, there was no the
average meter was was was ninety seven, ninety eight, ninety nine.
He's coming at you with the record that's eighty two bpms.

(02:04:21):
There's a bunch of kids singing.

Speaker 2 (02:04:23):
You know. It was a risk, like a Broadway song.

Speaker 8 (02:04:26):
Delivery is weird.

Speaker 2 (02:04:28):
Yeah, how did you guys? Now? That? To me was
the hell Mary throw of all hell Marys.

Speaker 9 (02:04:34):
I think the novelty was part of it, just because
of the fact that it was a very slow song
with the whole.

Speaker 2 (02:04:38):
The ironic song, because he tried it again with anything
that didn't work.

Speaker 8 (02:04:42):
Yeah, I think it was a moment in time. I
don't think that could ever be repeated, and it was
a jay Z moment.

Speaker 2 (02:04:51):
But was there what do you call it? Catalyst when
you when you're a gun?

Speaker 1 (02:04:58):
Was there a sort of a gun side thing like
we can't fumble this one and wait because let's not even.

Speaker 2 (02:05:04):
Look at it as a fumble because the album went platinum.

Speaker 8 (02:05:07):
Yeah, I don't think it would. To be honest with
you again, I never looked at it. Jay Z's brand
to us, Rockefeller's brand to us, because we had things
that was very successful and then we had things that
didn't work, you know, but his brand was so important
to us, his friendship was so important to us that
it just wasn't about one particular record. I know would

(02:05:29):
hove He's gonna always make that record because I believe
he's that guy. That's another one of those you know
what I mean that that I that I would do
anything for it because I know his he's he's it's
just as an EMC that he won of those man
and heart knocked like you got that couldn't work for everybody.

(02:05:50):
Everybody couldn't do They couldn't do that that they couldn't do,
and so he was just it was the one on
one for him.

Speaker 1 (02:06:01):
If you're just suiting him, we're heading to our final
hour with Kevin Lowne was talking about his time as
president of def JAM at the turn of the century.
What was it like daily just dealing with Dame dash
and on on one line? By this point, I know

(02:06:22):
it was IRV got it a hard uh. I know
you're gonna say that nobody was hard to.

Speaker 8 (02:06:28):
Know, I'm gonna tell you, but intensely Dame was challenging.

Speaker 2 (02:06:33):
Okay, good.

Speaker 8 (02:06:35):
IRV. And if you talk to him to this day,
IRV to me when I left, if IRV didn't implode
the way he did around his whole thing and Dame
didn't implode the way he did, they were being prime
to take over. And I'm just today would they were

(02:06:57):
real record gud? I mean, I'm being honest.

Speaker 1 (02:06:58):
Do you still feel that they have have the business
acumen too? At least advance the wisdom that they've gained,
because I just refuse to believe that they're that damn disposable.

Speaker 2 (02:07:11):
Right, It was like a moment in time.

Speaker 8 (02:07:13):
I don't I don't think they I don't think they
moment in times. I think they made choices and decisions
that they have to live by. And I think if
IRV wanted to be in the business, he could be
in the business. I think that Dame has chosen a
different You got to understand something Dame came it was
it was atrofected with them, you know what I mean.
So I'm sure that goes through you know, some people.

(02:07:35):
It's like I said, I know I can do it
by myself, but I don't want to do it by myself.
That's why me and they have been together, you know,
my whole career per se. So some people don't want
to do it byself. I really don't think Dame wants
to do it byself. And that's just to be quite honest.
You know, I'm not sure why. But and Irv I
talk to every day. We we we were friends.

Speaker 1 (02:07:55):
Well, not to put you on the spot, but if
he I'm saying there's a mail room position that three
hundreds right right, I don't mean that. But are there
people in this industry that you would rather not choose

(02:08:17):
to work with again? Or is it just like you'll
find where your system is right now?

Speaker 8 (02:08:23):
And let me I'm gonna try to put this in
the right.

Speaker 2 (02:08:28):
Way because I want to know, like the genius and the.

Speaker 1 (02:08:34):
Stronghold of Rockefeller, I'm trying to figure out if that
was Dame's constant intensity or was that jay Z's lucky streak,
like who had the fifty one to forty nine advantage.

Speaker 8 (02:08:51):
I think it's always gonna be Hole because he was
the one that kept the lights on building. But every
team needs a Dennis Robin And I think Jay wasn't
a big talker. Dame did the talking. Biggs wasn't a

(02:09:11):
big talker at all. He didn't really talk, you know
what I mean, he just you know, did did not
and say yo.

Speaker 13 (02:09:18):
So that's a well that said if okay, let's let's
trade off. Let's take Let's take Dash out of the situation.
Let's put Chris Lighty in that situation. Now, Chris Lighty
is the right hand to Hove.

Speaker 1 (02:09:33):
Will we have the same results or do you need
someone that is just the flavor to a chuck.

Speaker 8 (02:09:41):
D like a Let me let me say this to you.
I think there's a lot of things that put that
whole situation uh into the stratosphere at where it was
at that particular time. I'll be I'll be a a
sucker and a bitch if I didn't sit and say

(02:10:04):
that Dame's contribution to Rockefeller was not a lot I'll
be corny and whack to say that Biggs didn't, and
I also be disrespectful to say Hove was not the reason.
You know what I'm saying. So you can't, you can't,
you can't put.

Speaker 1 (02:10:24):
You don't do because I wouldn't know that because I've
never seen. I know Jay's very ambitious, and I know
that he it's kind of a chess player and thinks
in terms of moves.

Speaker 2 (02:10:36):
But I always thought, like you.

Speaker 1 (02:10:38):
Need you needed a trojan horse or a battering ram
to at least how be it revisioned as history or not.
I mean you you'll hear everyone's tale.

Speaker 2 (02:10:53):
Of well I made it happen. Well I made it happen.
You know, you hear like all these versions of it.
So it's just like.

Speaker 8 (02:11:00):
We never looked at it like that. I think them
being with us helped a lot. I think we provided
a platform to them to be great entrepreneurs. We gave
them a lot of opportunity, taught them a lot of things,
and to be quite honest, they taught us some things.
Taught us about taking risks, taught us about just believe that. Again,

(02:11:20):
it might sound funny, but from all them guys, I
really feel like we were just meant to be the
reason we ran the boards, because we were meant to
be together, meant to be together. I'm talking you talking
about wars, we'd have minded some things.

Speaker 1 (02:11:33):
Yeah, I was gonna say, knowing that your history, were
you meditating at this point at least?

Speaker 11 (02:11:38):
Like?

Speaker 2 (02:11:39):
How are you surviving?

Speaker 1 (02:11:40):
Because I mean, I'm I'm probably a passive aggressive boss
in at least twelve.

Speaker 2 (02:11:48):
Of my ventures. I just you know, what are you
pointing me for? No? This is the Have I been
aggressive to you? Have I been aggressive to you?

Speaker 8 (02:12:00):
You'll have.

Speaker 2 (02:12:04):
Yes, I have been very aggressive.

Speaker 4 (02:12:08):
Said you are a passive aggresive boss. Yes, that is
the truth. You already said it's school.

Speaker 2 (02:12:11):
Oh well you had to intensify to.

Speaker 4 (02:12:13):
That level for a witness. I just want you to
know there was.

Speaker 2 (02:12:15):
Yeah, you didn't have to agree that dare anyway.

Speaker 1 (02:12:20):
But my point is that how how does this not
land you in the hospital? How's this not?

Speaker 8 (02:12:27):
Actually?

Speaker 2 (02:12:27):
Did should? I did not know that?

Speaker 4 (02:12:32):
Not?

Speaker 8 (02:12:32):
Not not? I didn't realize it that at the time.
But when you work with my life, you know, And
I'd gotten so big I was three hundred and twenty pounds.

Speaker 2 (02:12:46):
Jesus Christ I totally forgot.

Speaker 8 (02:12:47):
That all that, and so the issue I realized my
my addiction was food and the reason and because I
was on the road all the time, I never really
cared about I just ate in the eight and eight
stress and then I started stressed, you know, And so
I started to realize that ship something wrong. Blood clot

(02:13:09):
here bye by this And I remember Leo said this,
he said, I went to think about this. They had
five hundred million dollars. Am I going to give it
to you fat fuck? Or am I gonna give it
to the healthy guy? Wow? Moment moment. And so I

(02:13:30):
only say that I didn't realize that at that time.
And sometimes you don't realize what you're going through. But
that addiction to food stress eating is, as people called it,
almost cost him my life. Diabetes the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (02:13:43):
So where you diagnosed with diabetes? Yeah? All that?

Speaker 8 (02:13:47):
Yeah, when I was in digestion problems, I was, I
was at when I tell you, you know, a very
reggie red, very big cap. All these guys were overweight,
dieing in the whole nine How old are you at
this time? At my biggest probably thirty two?

Speaker 4 (02:14:06):
Wow, that was a big yeah, because your initial weight
loss was a lot, Like you dropped a lot of pounds.

Speaker 8 (02:14:13):
I went from three twenty I'm now where one ninety.

Speaker 2 (02:14:18):
Wow, that's like, oh no, I'm current, I'm five down.
That a small No. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:14:27):
I had a similar scare. And I'm like in my
second month of being a vegan, which I got to ask,
is there ever a time where you just stopped counting
the days like a prisoner?

Speaker 2 (02:14:44):
Like I dream of pancakes vegan?

Speaker 1 (02:14:48):
But every I have a diary and I'm like day
forty four, like I'm that series like in Blood.

Speaker 8 (02:14:54):
I changed it's lifestyle now it's I look at food.
I eat food for energy.

Speaker 4 (02:15:01):
So you're not a no sugar, no dairy anymore because
you were.

Speaker 8 (02:15:04):
It was a no sugar still fr no fried foods,
dairy and cheese. You know what I mean? I do?
I'm people know me. I eat the same thing every day,
you know what I mean? So egg whites in the morning, mushrooms, onions, peppers,

(02:15:26):
sliced turkey, meat inside.

Speaker 2 (02:15:29):
Sumer look like Kevin.

Speaker 4 (02:15:32):
Let's get to lunch now.

Speaker 8 (02:15:34):
Lunches normally fish and Brussels sprouts or broccoli rob and
then then I'll eat some seafood Weber shrimp, Alaskan king
krab legs, but always protein and vegetables the same. And
now I made a commitment, you know, forty eight by fifty,
I want to be in the best shape in my life.
So I'm doing CrossFit three days a week and I'm

(02:15:54):
doing rowing every day. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (02:15:57):
I hate rowing. Do you do that machine where you
have to do the two thousand?

Speaker 8 (02:16:04):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I love so much that I put
it in my house. I bought one from my.

Speaker 2 (02:16:12):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:16:14):
Yeah, I purposely try to break the chair on that machine.

Speaker 8 (02:16:19):
Shout out the coach, Greg, I'll be there to mariw o'clock.

Speaker 4 (02:16:24):
Inspiration.

Speaker 2 (02:16:25):
Jesus, So I got that answer you asked, But.

Speaker 8 (02:16:32):
I'm gonna tell you question that's on the weight thing.
So many people look at you and follow you. You
know what kind of light you would shine if you
did become healthy. And I'm not saying you're not healthy,
but just if you did, the light that you would bring.

Speaker 1 (02:16:50):
To people just where Because people think that I'm now
the Nazi asshole for like all the health stuff of
them putting up.

Speaker 4 (02:17:00):
I do know you, not the people who don't know
they are looking at you great. Yeah, just us, but
people more people think it's great.

Speaker 8 (02:17:06):
I think I think you'd be such an inspiration to people,
and you touch people's lives. I can't tell you. People
who send me messages that you know forget me being
who I am and the things that I've done, just
the commitment because I've been I've lost weighting. It's now
going to ten years. I don't count count days or anything.
I really truly eat for energy. You may only eat

(02:17:29):
enough stuff. I don't want to feel full. Fool is
nasty to me. Full makes me feel sluggish in a
certain way. So I pray for you, and I hope
that you find you know the light enough to follow
the light and shine light on other people.

Speaker 2 (02:17:47):
Wow. Things I feel like I just got blessed.

Speaker 4 (02:17:49):
By al would eat is Rick Ross and it's like
a pure blessing.

Speaker 1 (02:17:57):
Who the sugar Steve is our resident diabetes.

Speaker 4 (02:18:04):
Uh got up during that part.

Speaker 1 (02:18:07):
Yeah, he's probably smoking a cigarette, like eating the cake
coming like what I mean?

Speaker 2 (02:18:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:18:15):
So, uh what your your actually Actually the three of
you left def JAM at the same time.

Speaker 2 (02:18:23):
Correct two thousand and six. Uh, it was four when
they were there when we signed to Atlantic.

Speaker 8 (02:18:30):
So leor left first, I was there at President CEO
Deaf jam Uh. Julie was there as the execu Press
President Island President Allen. She left and then and I
always tell a story, So it's me in l A.
And I felt like.

Speaker 2 (02:18:49):
What was was the synergies the same.

Speaker 8 (02:18:52):
I mean it was it was my company, you know
what I mean. We ran it. I just so I
had the keys, but I didn't have the house. So
So and Doug and them, they just didn't know. They
didn't trust me enough because I was Lear's guide, you
know what I mean. And so they told me you
should come and you know, stay and understand. I said, listen,

(02:19:14):
I love La. It's my my friend. It's like somebody
as another guy that I think the world of, and
we can do great We don't do the same thing,
you know what I mean, we can do great things together.

Speaker 2 (02:19:24):
Were disappointed that they didn't offer you the I wasn't.

Speaker 8 (02:19:27):
I wasn't say again, I wasn't that it was meant
to be, so I don't. I don't live in So
it was the only time I got this point where
they said, you got y'all gonna give me the job.
That was the only time I was this point other
than that, I take life for what it has to
give me. But that's why I'm so critical on my
choices and the things that I do and how I
treat people. So with LA, I looked at it. I said, Yo,

(02:19:49):
so I don't want people doing the LA's people and
Kevin's people. Then I'm not gonna let them do that
to two African Americans at an institution like death. Jam.
I can't do that, Yo. So I'm out, my man,
but I gotta go, he said, Yo, no, no, I
said no, But I'm doing this for us. I'm doing

(02:20:11):
this for us because you deserve and respect for what
you have and respect what you've done as an executive.
You don't need a hindrance to you doing what you
need to do. This is deaf Jam, you know what
I mean? This is Alan deaf Jam. I need you
to have full control and anything. So I'm a help
as much as I can, but I think it's best

(02:20:32):
that I give you. You have the house, I give
you the keys also. So that's what it was.

Speaker 1 (02:20:38):
So in your success, it was Jay right or Jay?

Speaker 2 (02:20:42):
Was that?

Speaker 1 (02:20:43):
What do you think of that period? Like were you
shocked or did you feel that that was not natural,
But like was it was it something that you.

Speaker 2 (02:20:57):
Believed in?

Speaker 8 (02:20:58):
Or I think it was it was you gotta it
was necessary. Two, because you gotta understand some I'm ten
years now, I'm fifteen years there, and so people there's
some kids who don't know Russell was president in the
death jam, you know, I mean there's some millennials that
don't know that. They think it was me. You know,
I found it in that old thing. So you know

(02:21:21):
the issue I think that they had with Liro and
me not being there. They had to have someone there
with enough gravitas, enough like the attraction and success that
would stop the bleeding, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (02:21:40):
But why do you think the art it didn't during
that time, it seemed like the artists on roster weren't
as happy as they were before, some of the people
who had been there for a while.

Speaker 8 (02:21:50):
I think it's management styles, I think.

Speaker 1 (02:21:54):
And how do you deal with a fading light like
EPMD's situation for instance, Like you know, how do you
take a legacy act that might not necessarily be as open?

Speaker 2 (02:22:09):
I mean, am I to assume? I don't? I don't,
like I never know what ELL's processes.

Speaker 1 (02:22:15):
He just seems to me that he's just open to
ideas and if it's and if it's a good idea,
I'll go with it.

Speaker 2 (02:22:25):
I know plenty of artists.

Speaker 1 (02:22:26):
That would, you know, turn their back on a hip
for fear of like I don't want to look bad
for my boys singing da da Da da da. But
how do you take a legacy act that was good
for the label like E p MD or Eric Sermon
and that sort of thing, like if the expiration is

(02:22:46):
up and they're like, okay, well we're back in business
or that thing like was the Ninetess back in business?

Speaker 2 (02:22:53):
Out of business?

Speaker 8 (02:22:55):
I did all those albums, so that could have produce.
I mean, that's why we're going to It's a question.

Speaker 1 (02:23:01):
So for that for those comeback records, like are they
having these like uh, these frothy goals of like ah, man,
we're back to our you know, our regular platinum status
and you know the world's gonna know who.

Speaker 8 (02:23:14):
We are because I said they were never a platinum,
they were gold. What I'm trying to say is their
expectation was to be able to go out on the
road and perform for their fans. Serm Eric Sermon, Uh,
his expectations was to be the produce you gotta. You

(02:23:36):
gotta remember when we did back in business and then
there was another one out. You know, these were albums
done out of love. It wasn't like that. It wasn't expectation,
Oh we're gonna go and get jet. It was not that.
It was that, Yo, we still want to do it,
so help us do it. And that's what I That's

(02:23:58):
what I did, and I think we did. Eric did
some great Eric did the four three two one remix
for me, and I always say, so, if he can
bless me there, I have to be able to work
with them. And the joke was the group was called
k EPM D because I was. I was always stayed
right with them too, you know what I mean. So
that was I mean through all that, I went through

(02:24:18):
all the thick and so.

Speaker 4 (02:24:20):
That must have been a part of the culture shot
because I remember when you left ll it seemed like
it was definitely a difference in him, like a mirror.
I'm not not got your moment. However, he definitely made
it known how he felt about the new administration and
how did that affect you? Because it just seemed like
the whole camaraderie, whatever you brought, that joy that you
brought to that building, it got him done.

Speaker 8 (02:24:42):
I think it's a different I mean, you got to
look at different administrations coming every four years, and I
think that, but you learned how to deal with them.
I think, Okay, maybe that feeling wasn't there, but Rihanna's dead, right?
But did he?

Speaker 2 (02:24:57):
But did?

Speaker 4 (02:24:58):
I mean y'all are friends, so I'm sure he like
called you like I can't deal?

Speaker 8 (02:25:01):
Did you have to? I think people knew, people know
me and hope you know what I mean. People know
that if he called me today and said, Yo, I
need you to to run this or do this, that's
my guy. I'm gonna do whatever I can for him.
But vice versa. Like other people can't call him, I

(02:25:21):
can call him and say, yo, I need It's not
money thing, you know, and he'll He'll be there and
the rest of these kids. I always told him when
I left, it was emotional for me. You know, you
got to understand something. I took that badge and the
only thing I don't have is a tattoo with that jam.
And these were brothers and sons and daughters that and

(02:25:44):
aunts and people who I came up with in the business.
But at the end of the day, they have to
do what's best for their families. Like I had to
do what's best for my families, and I got I
got some of the calls. But I will always say,
remember when Rick, and when Rick left, there was Lear
change the administration. When Lera we grew so big, Lear

(02:26:08):
had to have Kevin Lowles change administration. And the same
way some of the artists people. It's people who felt
that death jam when I came in. When they named
me president, some people left, some people threw ship all.
They couldn't believe.

Speaker 2 (02:26:21):
How they left.

Speaker 8 (02:26:22):
They couldn't they couldn't believe how they named me. People
cried that.

Speaker 1 (02:26:27):
So so even despite you coming in first and leaving last.

Speaker 8 (02:26:31):
What wasn't wasn't about that because the culture wasn't about
how can I say the team? It was more so
about we death jam and and and what it wasn't.
And to me, I'm okay with being in the back
seat driving being I'm gonna being on the roof, put
me in the trunk. I'm okay with whoever, as long

(02:26:51):
as we accomplished the goal and what's the greater good?
And so I just think it's the difference. When new
administrations come in, they have to cater to the artists,
and when you don't cater to art the paint starts appeal.
And so that's what I think, you.

Speaker 2 (02:27:06):
Know, I want to I want to ask.

Speaker 1 (02:27:12):
If you can name me three three artists or three acts.

Speaker 8 (02:27:18):
Don't get me a trouble question.

Speaker 1 (02:27:21):
Kevin Lowbes, I love you, man, I'm not got you.
Name me three acts that got away? I could have
had blah blah blah, like damn if we just they
went somewhere else, Like what three acts could you could

(02:27:42):
you have signed or had that got away?

Speaker 8 (02:27:46):
Nelly?

Speaker 2 (02:27:47):
WHOA?

Speaker 1 (02:27:49):
How close was Nelly negotiations with Deft Chair and what
caused it to not happen? I know someone had to say, oh,
this guy will never sell this.

Speaker 8 (02:28:00):
I just think it was a time and issue, and
we were we were a really like coast based label,
East Coast and West Coast and didn't understand it.

Speaker 2 (02:28:15):
I think Leard didn't like it.

Speaker 8 (02:28:18):
I mean, I think fifty Wait a minute, you trying
to tell me Chris Lidi managed them?

Speaker 2 (02:28:28):
Yeah, yeah, what had happened? I never thought of that.

Speaker 1 (02:28:35):
So if Lady would have signed fifty cent Andi Rule
was on the label at the same time.

Speaker 2 (02:28:40):
Yeah, that would have been crazy. I didn't.

Speaker 8 (02:28:44):
Listen or was that an issue? No, the best thing
for everybody, And again, I deal with a greater good.
Fifty had an opportunity to be with Dre. I believe
if fifty would have been with us.

Speaker 1 (02:28:58):
You mean you had a when he signed the Columbia
the first time, or like you know, after period after Columbia,
after y'all could have tooke nim.

Speaker 2 (02:29:08):
Like mixtape.

Speaker 8 (02:29:09):
I mean, I mean we could have signed fifty, but
the greater good called and the greater good was Yo.
I think that's the better situation. And I think that
because of doctor Drake, because of the whole thing that
came along with and I think that because of the
choice that he made. I think, uh, he became the

(02:29:33):
artist that he is. I don't think we could have
did it as great of a job with with him
as they did. So I think that was one. And
then who else said you got me three man?

Speaker 1 (02:29:47):
I mean, it doesn't have to be hip hop. I'm
sure there's some singer rock band too, because.

Speaker 8 (02:29:53):
Let me see, uh, I mean, it ain't that many
that if we wanted them we didn't get now the brag, No,
I really like, I'm I can't in doing my era.
I can't think I'm another number numb act that if
we really wanted them, that we didn't get him. Fifty, Yeah,

(02:30:15):
I would say, and and by the way, they're both
very good friends. I went on to manage Nelly, you know,
for a period of time. Of course he did, so
he's shout out to Nellie, shout out to fifty.

Speaker 4 (02:30:27):
Do you have a favorite era of deaf Jam? I mean,
because we didn't even talk about death Show or anything else.
But I'm just curious because I remember that was like
a big deal in twenty steath, so so I'm just
curious you have a I don't.

Speaker 8 (02:30:39):
I mean, this is great. I don't have a favorite
era era.

Speaker 4 (02:30:43):
That meant the most you. I guess the favorite word
is a.

Speaker 1 (02:30:46):
Are you one of those like I never looked back once,
I'm looking towards the touchdown goal?

Speaker 8 (02:30:50):
Yeah, I said, I'm just I'm not doing this, okay, nothing, no,
none of that, because I really believe if you stay
in the state of evolution, you make change. I don't.
I don't feel like I don't want to be stagnant.
So therefore, I don't spend my time just reflecting on

(02:31:14):
the roses. I smell them, but I don't sit back
and look, you know at what I what I did.
That's why I like now I can sit here and say,
you know, when streaming started and uh, we had the
first artist of stream a billion streams with fedtie wat.
I can sit here today and say it got the
number one rock record with high suspect. I see in
the day and say I got Migos. I'd rather talk

(02:31:34):
I say it and say I got a guy named
young Doug. That's you know, putting out so many records
that I can say all these things in a sense.
But now if you want me to go back and
talk about.

Speaker 4 (02:31:45):
It, we can talk about and how you managing and
having labels at the same time and doing so much.

Speaker 8 (02:31:51):
Yeah, all that, But you know, I just really look
forward to what God has prepared, you know. But I
gotta work at it though, you know. I tell people,
you really don't want it, if you're not willing to
give up everything for it, really don't really don't want it.
And a lot of kids today they don't want it.
They act like they want it, but they don't want.

Speaker 2 (02:32:11):
It, they don't want it as and if they don't
have the drive that you had.

Speaker 8 (02:32:15):
It's not about It's not about drive. I mean, see,
I believe, I believe every day I'm I'm I'm trying
to prove to you that I'm Michael Jordan every day
still to this day, still Michael Jordan, still Michael Jordan,
not not no, not coach, no, no, Michael Jordan's I play.

(02:32:38):
I play okay, I play hard.

Speaker 1 (02:32:41):
So in your world like it's not about okay, Well,
you know I should be in coach position or even
owner position.

Speaker 8 (02:32:48):
Or what's funny? Is you gotta I own a piece
of death jam at twenty eight, I don't know what
I don't know what it is not to be owner.
I own Warner Music Group, I own three hundred you know,
I don't know our own kW I don't know what

(02:33:09):
it is not to own, So I don't. I don't,
but I don't know what I would do if I did,
couldn't play?

Speaker 4 (02:33:16):
Do you think your journey could exist in twenty seventeen
like the way did you started your journey? Continued your journey.

Speaker 1 (02:33:21):
Like right now that's still at your office making sure
that so ten years from now.

Speaker 2 (02:33:31):
We're going to.

Speaker 8 (02:33:33):
Now. I got I got a lot of a lot
of young kids who I feel like, do.

Speaker 2 (02:33:38):
You feel millennials even have that drive at all?

Speaker 8 (02:33:43):
I think some do. I think some do. Think you
find the right ones. I think CJ's one. I think
I got another kid in my office who was like
the third person that out of Google class and interns.
I think Ash is one. I think I got another
marketing person named Raina who's I mean, they're there, you

(02:34:04):
know what I mean. But what happened quest is that
there's a period of time in our culture where mentorship
was lost because everybody, everybody got everybody got scared for
their jobs, got selfish, and they got selfish and so.

Speaker 2 (02:34:23):
And it's it's called flexing.

Speaker 8 (02:34:26):
The only reason I came reason I came back like
like like I have it is because I don't need
If you look at it, all of the diversity and
the music business and things like that, there's not enough
of us and and and But I tell people, you
got to be prepared for the moment. And being prepared

(02:34:48):
for the moment is making sure you the best you,
and you're having the biggest value proposition. And a lot
of kids that's wasn't there, And so I demand excellence.

Speaker 4 (02:34:57):
Your teaching and you just use that phrase twice and
it's this wholes Can you say that again? The value
people say stuff they don't know what it is, and
that's kind.

Speaker 8 (02:35:04):
Of deep, but you just so I believe there's a
value publish proposition on both sides. People who come to me,
can you give me a job? I said no, but
you can create a position with me. What's your value proposition.
I'm not gonna pay you what You're going to create
your position and create your position and then we'll talk
about it.

Speaker 1 (02:35:20):
So if someone with the gravity ties and nerve that
Rockefeller had, when I guess they told you guys.

Speaker 8 (02:35:31):
Like Dame had, not Rockefeller, Okay, but no, no, no, no, no,
in the way of saying everybody had that role. That
was it, that was his role and he played well.

Speaker 2 (02:35:51):
Oh okay, well no, no, no again.

Speaker 1 (02:35:54):
A lot of this, I'm just going on folklore that
you know, you always hear stories of, and I just remember,
at or at least what I was told was that
when they had the initial death Jam meeting, it was like, no,
we want to be our own label, not just to
be an artist.

Speaker 8 (02:36:11):
J Damon Biggs came to my office. IRV said, Yo,
y'all want to get your records played, you gotta go
see Kevin Lows okay. And so they came to my
office with a bag of money, a brown paper bag
and whoa. I said, Yo, let me hate the music.

(02:36:32):
You know, I just want to know. I know life
that I heard you know in my lifetime, said let
me the music. So I said, Yo, why don't you
try to sign hit? Jay said, we Rockefeller?

Speaker 4 (02:36:43):
Cool?

Speaker 8 (02:36:45):
All right, cool? So, but Yo, we should stay in touch.
And I helped them get the record on the radio,
and then they did the record with Foxy and we
put that on Rush Hour soundtrack, the first one in
the rest is history.

Speaker 2 (02:36:58):
That's really that's though, because.

Speaker 8 (02:37:01):
That's listen another time he said it. When we all
went to the Warner Music Group, Jay said, Yo.

Speaker 1 (02:37:09):
And how did y'all get him to agree to that?
He Kevin's all smiles.

Speaker 8 (02:37:15):
Now, No, it's it's when you it's when you always
think it a greater good. So, when Jay had the
opportunity to work with us again, because he got did
the whole lot next thing, finished his commitment there, he
brought his album over to us at Atlantic.

Speaker 2 (02:37:32):
Which the Kingdom come or the UH part three Blueprint
Blueprint three.

Speaker 8 (02:37:38):
Okay, And and he didn't have to do that. He
could have did it anywhere in the world, but he chose.

Speaker 2 (02:37:44):
He could have.

Speaker 8 (02:37:45):
You know, he could have did it anywhere in the world.
And the reality of it was that's because of the
greater good, you know, man, and I believe we all
work together again. And I believe I'm now with Lee
or at YouTube, there's gonna be a lot of opportunity
for more things to happen, and our culture is going
to even continue to grow more.

Speaker 1 (02:38:04):
I just want to wrap up to where you are now,
which is of course between kW L and three hundred entertainment.

Speaker 2 (02:38:14):
Why would you want to be a manager?

Speaker 1 (02:38:18):
Which means that I'm certain that your phone are ringing
off that CJ's already confirming. Do you dread when the
phone rings between eleven?

Speaker 2 (02:38:36):
I'm sure you have a batphone, that batphone, which is like, do.

Speaker 1 (02:38:40):
Not call this phone unless it's an emerged right, Okay,
you always showed me all forty two billions.

Speaker 2 (02:38:47):
So when phone number three rings at.

Speaker 8 (02:38:49):
Two in the morning, that's in a call.

Speaker 2 (02:38:52):
Are you is there tremors? Are are you?

Speaker 8 (02:38:58):
Like? Oh God, so where I'm at in my life? People? Now,
I have a eighteen year old, sixteen year old, five
year old, two year old, I have a wife. I'm
not answering the phone at a certain time, but it's
out of respect. But I make sure before I lay
down that everything's done. It's not an issue. And if

(02:39:21):
I do get a four o'clock in the morning call
like I did last week, yeah, okay, it's already handled
to a point that I just got to give the blessing,
you know, because I got people of a company. It's
not just just me.

Speaker 2 (02:39:37):
I have people who are You're at the top of
the very.

Speaker 8 (02:39:40):
Competent an and I have to just say I don't
I never wanted to manage. I don't even feel like
I managed right now.

Speaker 1 (02:39:47):
You don't want to manage. You didn't want to be president,
you didn't want to want artist. What do you want
to do, Kevin Lowlson?

Speaker 8 (02:39:55):
Okay, let me tell you really want to do. I
want to change people's lives, and right now I'm doing
it through music.

Speaker 2 (02:40:03):
I can't accept that it's good because.

Speaker 8 (02:40:05):
The truth, that's all I want to do, and I really,
honestly I tell you and then we can wrap up.
So when I left for Warner Music Group, I was
done with the business. I said, I don't I said,
you don't want to sign Chris Brown. You're trying to
tell me about you want to get rid of this artist.
I said, yeah, I can't do that. So I'm an
EXECTI vice president, So I don't have a label. I'm

(02:40:28):
the whole company, you know. And I said, I think
it's the business is about the change. I think I
should look at the new business model. Takes some time off.
And so I worked out something with Warner and for
you know, three years, and everything's great. My whole crew
there and everything. And I met this kid, Trey while

(02:40:49):
I was there. He said, yo, I got rid of
my manager. I said, so, who's your manager? He said Delante.
I said, Delante was my first intern ever in the
music business. He said, what's the problem. Well, well, I said, yo,
He said, keV, I want you to man. I said, yo,
I'm not manager. I'm not waking up telling you I'm
not doing nothing that we are y'all talking about management.
And I said, but go out and talk to everybody

(02:41:14):
and then come back and talk to me. And let's
make a decision. So his mom calls me and says,
I am keV. My son don't want a manager. He
wants you. He said. He looks at you as a
father figure. I said, oh jeez, no he didn't. He

(02:41:35):
didn't call me, he said. So then he called and said, yo,
I promise you. I'm gonna do whatever I need to
do to be and I'm not going to act up.
You know what I mean? I said, I don't think
you're going to act up. I said, but you got
to understand it's really you have to be my partner.
I'm not your manager. Really, I'm your partner, and we're

(02:41:56):
gonna have to figure it out. And so I agreed
to do that. And then ten thousand other people called.
But that was out of necessity. Our friend was out
of necessity. It wasn't not it was I didn't I
say I want to man it. It was out of necessity.

Speaker 1 (02:42:10):
I was about to say, what can we do to
not make d'angelo's fourth album come out in twenty thirty seven?

Speaker 8 (02:42:19):
Right label love? Man, I can just I can be
honest with you.

Speaker 1 (02:42:25):
I know it's frustrating, you know, and then you see
it perform and it's like all's forgiven.

Speaker 2 (02:42:30):
This is me.

Speaker 8 (02:42:31):
He wanted us listen, relationship, right, it's like a relationship.
He's one of those I can say, listen, whether he
makes ten albums, five albums, two albums, for whatever he
decides to make, it'll be Danzel. It's only one of those.
And that's how I feel about it. And it's out
of necessity. That's my brother, you know what I mean.
That's somebody who like, I'm gonna be there for him,

(02:42:55):
you know, whether he's writing music, performing, whatever he's doing,
I'm gonna be there for him. This is right, but
stayed right. But but again it's out of necessity. That
was out of necessity. I have some acts that I
do because they want to beat but they all want
to beat me for different reasons, and so it's out
of necessity, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:43:11):
With that, Who are the acts that you manage? Now?

Speaker 8 (02:43:15):
P and B Rock Philly Shout out to Philly. Shout
out to P and B. Do you still have l No,
don't have her? K Michelle?

Speaker 2 (02:43:29):
Who else?

Speaker 8 (02:43:30):
I well, Wes Walker from another Philly white rap who
Charles Jenkins Big Pastor out of Chicago. Shout out to Charles.
I'm forgetting somebody. I'm forgetting somebody, really, oh, London on
the track and if I forgot you, I'm sorry, it's late.

Speaker 2 (02:43:54):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (02:43:55):
Well, I thank you very much. Give it up for
our guests.

Speaker 2 (02:44:00):
Kevin le the guru, the guru.

Speaker 8 (02:44:06):
I'm gonna take that, though I might that may be my.

Speaker 1 (02:44:10):
I can't be the first person that ever called.

Speaker 8 (02:44:12):
You a guru. Russell called me a priest. Wow. Rare
calls me the covenor instead of the governor. That because
I cover everybody, but you you the first guru definitely.

Speaker 2 (02:44:25):
Wow.

Speaker 8 (02:44:25):
Oh. Russell called me.

Speaker 1 (02:44:26):
Buddha now or fifteen years ago?

Speaker 8 (02:44:32):
Now, okay, yeah, he said, he said, you don't have
to I have to meditate because I have to meditate.
I said, you don't have to. He said, you don't
have to meditate. You just nice. I said, yeah, I
said okay, cool.

Speaker 1 (02:44:44):
Well, much success to you, man. I appreciate your energy
and and and and your your wisdom and your insight.

Speaker 8 (02:44:51):
Thank you very much, man, Thank you, guys, bless you off.

Speaker 2 (02:44:54):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:44:55):
That was a very enlightening and positive. Do you think
we will just get one person to tell us the
most debauchery death jam stories of all time he was about.

Speaker 6 (02:45:06):
To did you notice that he was He was getting
up to one, and then we changed the subject. He was, yeah,
I thought he.

Speaker 2 (02:45:11):
Was gonna there was he he was.

Speaker 6 (02:45:14):
What he said was like Solomon Moore. It was like
bla and then someone sets up else. It was like now'
not yeah, And I have fish for lunch and fish
for dinner and fish legs.

Speaker 2 (02:45:27):
On my home ele vegetables smells of rich vegetables.

Speaker 1 (02:45:34):
I was praying to ask if he remembered the little
brother period of was that That.

Speaker 2 (02:45:41):
Was my first time meeting him. That was my first time.
But I mean, but a lot of what he was saying,
you know, and and even you know, to back up
what he was saying, you know, for for all into
the purposes. I mean, they let us make the album
we wanted to make. I mean, that album, regardless of
what it did, you know, financially, uh number for to
the mental show. You know, that record came straight out

(02:46:03):
of our hard drives to the world. And I don't
know if too many artists who can really say that,
you know, certainly at that time, you know what I mean,
you know, we that album came out exactly the way
we envisioned it and so uh, you know, they were
always album cover. It's of an album. We had to
change some of the album cover. But but other than that,

(02:46:24):
I mean, yeah, they were very They let us do us,
you know what I'm saying. So I always be thankful
to uh, keV and Julie and Craig. I like to
get on on on the show. I think Julie would
be real, raight. I think Julie would be the one
that will be She would she would give it up wrong.
I don't know everybody else now is like doing yoga

(02:46:45):
and ship. I think Julie. I think Julia would go in.
Did I ask you what you learned? Oh no, Kevin Lyles,
what I learned? I learned that to me, the most
the people that are a lot of times that are
most successful in the business. You know, when he talks
about just wanting to add value to things, that's something

(02:47:05):
that's very amiable. That's something that I've always kind of
tried to live my life by and that if I
don't think I can make something better, it doesn't have
anything to do with the money or you know whatever.
It's just like, if I don't think I can make
this better, then your check really don't mean nothing, you
know what I'm saying, Because if I'm not adding some
kind of value to it that I know only I

(02:47:26):
can add, then you know I'm doing you a disservice
by taking the money, and I'm just gonna end up
making us both look bad. So that was something that
really ranged out to me, and also to just a
thing of him just kind of not really playing for
the paper, but just playing for the position, agreeing to say, hey,
I'll drive Houdini because of what that's going to mean.
Not necessarily. There may not be a big payoff in

(02:47:47):
it for me immediately, but it may pay off for
me down the line and him even.

Speaker 1 (02:47:52):
I'm still trying to digest that though you mean what
you mean in what way? Well, I mean, I had
no reason to believe that. You know, he's fibbing to me, right.

Speaker 2 (02:48:02):
But that's a rare character trait to.

Speaker 1 (02:48:07):
Uh, I don't know, to be so prepared and so
willing to work and so on time, and so resourceful
and so ready without a destination or endgame or even
a dream.

Speaker 14 (02:48:24):
Well, I think he said one of the things he
said was that he wanted to be the best at
whatever he was whatever, It wasn't necessarily like he was
looking for the touchdown. It was just like, if this
is who I am, then I'm going to be the
best at it.

Speaker 2 (02:48:36):
That's the same because you have aspirations.

Speaker 4 (02:48:43):
No, it's just somebody else's story, just a journey different.

Speaker 1 (02:48:47):
Does that make me a bad person? If I see
a monetary landing at the end of this.

Speaker 4 (02:48:54):
Leap, it doesn't make you a bad person. But at
some point it's got to be something else. And I'm
with you on that. More than money.

Speaker 2 (02:49:01):
It's got because after a while, it's like.

Speaker 4 (02:49:03):
Kevin and helping his people and going to more, you know,
going to Morgan, being in Baltimore, being available, Like what
is that?

Speaker 2 (02:49:09):
Money?

Speaker 4 (02:49:09):
Don't feed your soul.

Speaker 1 (02:49:10):
But James Brown says Republican James Brown says in soul
power and deliberated broke.

Speaker 4 (02:49:19):
Well, you can do both though. That's what Kevin Lowles
is doing. That's what Richard Branson is doing.

Speaker 1 (02:49:23):
Yeah, I'm trying to change lives too, but I definitely
know that ain't nothing going on but the rent. Okay,
what any other bill?

Speaker 2 (02:49:38):
What did you learn this episode?

Speaker 6 (02:49:40):
What I learned to two things? Kevin Leles, Yes, that's
there is that which goes off what you were saying.
It's like, it's like you all getting to the room
for reason, right, you have a talent or you're in
the room for reason, but you stay in the room
because you're fun to hang around with. That's like, I
feel like that's about everything, And that was kind of
what he was getting. He's like, he's a nice guy

(02:50:01):
and like he would do all this ship and do
all this crazy stuff, but he succeeded at the end
of the day so profoundly because he's a good dude.
He's just like a he's not an asshole. And secondly,
he kept on saying stuff about storytelling, which I thought
was interesting, which we were disagreeingb on, which is like
East Coast versus West Coast, Like it wasn't that one
thing ended and another thing began. It's just it's just
that's where it was. And because I feel like I

(02:50:22):
was thinking about this as he was saying this, it
is like our life is like that, Like you're in
we were into the Hamilton thing for a minute, and
now that's kind of you know, it's not it's still
this thing, but it goes away and then something else
kind of pops up. You just kind of follow around
this thing and just hope that you can attach yourself
to the pulse of it as long as you can,
because that's what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (02:50:39):
That's artistry, whatever we're doing, you know, And that's I
thought that was. You just keep working, Yeah, you just
just keep working.

Speaker 6 (02:50:45):
Career, just have yes, But but our career is based
on the fucking weirdest thing in the world.

Speaker 8 (02:50:49):
Like so.

Speaker 1 (02:50:51):
Would Learne large Margie.

Speaker 2 (02:50:57):
Large large.

Speaker 4 (02:51:00):
All right, yeah, no, minus short, I just learned it.
I guess you really can be a good guy in
his business. Although I'm still waiting for a bad story
about Kevin Lows because it's so hard to believe that
you can be a good cop. Like that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (02:51:15):
Yeah, yeah, right, like that's amazing.

Speaker 4 (02:51:20):
And a sea of le Or and Russell Kevin.

Speaker 2 (02:51:25):
Yeah, I trust me.

Speaker 1 (02:51:27):
I've heard Russell Simmons name as Hustle Simmons.

Speaker 2 (02:51:31):
I've heard lee Or. I've never heard I've never heard
Kevin Lies. I've never heard that. I've never heard that once.
Bill me.

Speaker 9 (02:51:45):
Yeah, Yeah, what did I learn, boss, Bill? I didn't
really learn anything. I just got a lot of things reinforced.
I really wish this was a conversation that I could
have been a part of. On May fourth, two thousand
and two, before I started my first job music industry, Steve,
you know what you didn't learn?

Speaker 4 (02:52:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:52:07):
Do you know what you did not learn?

Speaker 5 (02:52:09):
How to get back into this room.

Speaker 2 (02:52:12):
I've been getting.

Speaker 6 (02:52:13):
Text messages all the way from Steve who every time
here you.

Speaker 2 (02:52:18):
Left the room in such a glorious moment.

Speaker 5 (02:52:20):
For you and create places.

Speaker 4 (02:52:24):
That's what happened when you were you.

Speaker 8 (02:52:27):
Did?

Speaker 5 (02:52:27):
What did I not learn?

Speaker 2 (02:52:28):
Were you at the window like banging on the window.

Speaker 5 (02:52:30):
I wish I was that close.

Speaker 4 (02:52:33):
Elevators because what did I not learn?

Speaker 5 (02:52:36):
Does he manage Billy Joelis?

Speaker 2 (02:52:40):
That would be your sugar?

Speaker 8 (02:52:42):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (02:52:42):
Yeah, yeah, you guys were brothers.

Speaker 6 (02:52:45):
And then he talked about his diet, and then we
made fun of your diet, and then you here that
was fine, and then yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (02:52:50):
Then he blessed the mirror.

Speaker 8 (02:52:51):
It was beautiful.

Speaker 5 (02:52:52):
It was I did learn some things.

Speaker 2 (02:52:54):
What did you learn? He wrote?

Speaker 15 (02:52:59):
Well, Well, I want to hear one of these songs
with with ten turntables, right, I mean I've put it
together in my Head's five guys right each with two.

Speaker 6 (02:53:09):
Good math buddies, good math.

Speaker 2 (02:53:15):
That's one thing.

Speaker 1 (02:53:16):
That's the one thing, and that we didn't clearly explain
that when he was talking about that he kept the bass.
Like the thing of of Baltimore house music was that
they would turn any song into a four on the
floor song. So it doesn't matter. It could be like
Jump by Van Helen. Somebody would spin Jump by Van Helen.

Speaker 5 (02:53:38):
That somebody scratching and somebody playing a bassline.

Speaker 11 (02:53:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:53:40):
Yeah, So he was saying that his job was just
to keep the steady eight weight. In Chicago, they would
actually have a guy play the eight weight live in
the booth. So I don't know if he had an
eight weight machine or he was just spinning records that
had a consistent Yeah, but yeah, you turn you turn
every song into a four on the floor song.

Speaker 15 (02:54:01):
So are there albums that the listeners can can reference
to hear ten turntables playing.

Speaker 2 (02:54:06):
Well, I mean that's a live experience.

Speaker 4 (02:54:08):
It's more of a live I'm about to say that, like,
how did that now?

Speaker 6 (02:54:11):
Right?

Speaker 4 (02:54:11):
Like now?

Speaker 1 (02:54:12):
The only person I've seen that that actually played more
than four at once? Uh, well, yeah, the scratch pristal
or or the executioners at one point we're doing that.

Speaker 15 (02:54:25):
The other stuff I learned was, uh, I think this
must be the only person in the world who took
an internship when he had all that money, right, Yeah,
I mean that's that's something special, you know. I mean,
obviously you take internships.

Speaker 1 (02:54:38):
To get your fright the internship without a goal at
the end too.

Speaker 5 (02:54:44):
I don't believe that part.

Speaker 6 (02:54:45):
But then didn't take the boss job for two years
like in ninety Is that humble?

Speaker 2 (02:54:50):
Right? He's like, I don't know it yet. I would
do that. I would do that. I would actually you
say that, but like, no, I wouldn't do that. But
that's if you know you're not ready, you're not gonna
put me in the position up.

Speaker 6 (02:55:02):
I come from a different places, which is like to
learn on the job someone.

Speaker 2 (02:55:06):
That you know, you know, the white thing is you're
my brother. But I'm just saying like, because the thing
is if I learn on the job and fuck up
another nigga for twenty years, me like I'm sucking.

Speaker 14 (02:55:23):
Up for everybody, but also running a label and crashing
and burning it. It's a big, high profile thing you
wouldn't want to do.

Speaker 6 (02:55:29):
So Telecommunications Act, got it.

Speaker 2 (02:55:32):
We all remember Andrew Rowe and then the whole motown man. Yeah,
he never lived. I mean, how many streets did we see?

Speaker 11 (02:55:41):
Of?

Speaker 2 (02:55:42):
I remember that? I just have one in my head.
It's one of It's a shot from behind, sitting there
with a cigar, with a cigar and the sweater draped
on the back of the chair. I think his name
on it. That's all I remember of his tenure. Mood Town.
That's all I remember to no music, Remember, no jam
was coming.

Speaker 5 (02:56:00):
I learned more ship?

Speaker 2 (02:56:01):
All right, say one thing? Did you yourself that it's
good stuff? What else did you learn, Steve?

Speaker 15 (02:56:11):
Well, you know that nice guys don't always finish last.
This guy seems to be the exception to the rule,
you know, And that's nice to see, if I mean,
unless he's playing.

Speaker 5 (02:56:20):
Us ship and I had I did no, No, I don't,
I don't, did you.

Speaker 2 (02:56:31):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (02:56:31):
I think I think he made it on.

Speaker 15 (02:56:33):
Humility and and and probably honesty and hard work and
all these really these nice things that we should all
people remember you when you yes, yes, people remember that ship.

Speaker 1 (02:56:46):
Well, what else can I learn more than two three
things in three hours?

Speaker 2 (02:56:55):
Steve is talking about supreme mana.

Speaker 5 (02:57:02):
I had an idea.

Speaker 15 (02:57:03):
I think if you want to get one of these
real juicy stories to come out about the deaf jam
years that you're always trying to get. You got to
find some cleaning lady who used to work there instead
of one of these executives.

Speaker 5 (02:57:14):
Lose and just and then you know we interview her.

Speaker 1 (02:57:17):
Well, look, you guys definitely echoed the same sentiments about
what I learned. I definitely know that I want to
hear uh Dame Dash's side of the story. So I'm
putting this out there in the atmosphere, Dame Dash, We're
gunning for you and a cleaning lady and the deaf
jam Flex will not be here, so don't be afraid.

Speaker 2 (02:57:41):
Shots damn.

Speaker 1 (02:57:52):
Everything, Okay, all right on belf Fan, Ticcolo, Sugar, Steve, Boss, Bill.

Speaker 2 (02:58:00):
Like You aka Angry Margarete.

Speaker 16 (02:58:05):
Unfaiville and even Scott ya Yo and nice staff here
w n y C this Quest Love Supreme or Pandora,
we will see you on the flip side.

Speaker 1 (02:58:18):
Thank you, Quest Love Supreme. It's a production of iHeartRadio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

(02:58:39):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows

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