QLS Classic: LA Reid Part 1

The first of L.A. Reid's 3-part QLS recalls his childhood in Cincinnati, playing the Indianapolis club circuit, working with Midnight Star, and meeting Babyface.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Sugar Steve from questlof Supreme. Anybody who knows
this podcast is well aware that our interviews can last
for hours, so often we split them into two parts.
It also gives listeners a suspenseful reason to come back
next week or check their podcast feed for more episodes.
Back in twenty twenty two, we sat down with la
Reid for what became a rare three part interview.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Part one of La.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Read's three part QLs recalls his childhood in Cincinnati, playing
the Indianapolis club circuit, working with Midnight Star, and meeting Babyface.
This classic episode was taped in July twenty twenty two.
Please rate, like, and subscribe to this on your podcast feeds,
check back for new episodes, and follow our new YouTube
page at QLs.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
You know good and well, you might as well get
some water. Dog. I'm gonna Memphis for all I can,
and you need some snacks or something. Bro. All right,
ladies and gentlemen, I was already told at the top
of the show, make.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
This quick, quick on this one.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm going all right, ladies, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, this
is another episode of Quest Love Supreme. How are you guys?
That's nice anyway, if you know me based on the show,
you you know there's a particular type of interview that
I that we all love the nerd out on, and
this is no exception, I guess today. You know he

(01:41):
is former super executive chairman CEO of Epic Records, former
chairman CEO of def Jam, former president and CEO of Arista,
and also his own uh in print record not to mention, oh,

(02:02):
former award winning songwriter and producer and former drummer and
probably the most moisturized band of all time.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, not to mention.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
I mean, look, y'all know me. It's gonna take forty
five minutes once I started reading off the accolades. Look
you already know it, man, like you literally know it.
Two occasions. This guy a girlfriend, This guy Ronnie rock
with you, don't be cruel. This guy into the road,
this guy I love should have brought to you home
last night, this guy not to mention the Axie sign.

(02:44):
Name him Tony Brason, Damien dam Goodie Mom, Jermaine Jackson,
us outcasts. I can name them all, ladies and gentlemen.
We finally have him. I feel like this is the
sequel to the baby Face episode. It really is.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
Nah, this is the baby fake, the Baby Safe episode
that was breaking bad.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
This is better call Sault exactly. There you go, yo.
This this guy is so legend that he even dropped
me from the label and took me back on my birthday. Yo.
I got dropped the morning of my birthday and came

(03:24):
back the night of my birthday.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Is gonna be a long one.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, please welcome l A Reed, thank you, thank you. Welcome.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
That's accurate, but well.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
You know, dramatic. Richard Nichols was so maybe rich was
just using a Jedi mind trick on me to get
that I'm done. Rich woke me up for my birthday
and six in the morning, like a mirror, the brooch
just got dropped off. Def jam. I was like no, literally,
I was all depressed. And then like I we met,

(04:07):
didn't we? I called you up and I literally called
you up and I left the message. I was like,
come on, dog, it's my birthday.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Man.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Ah my god, that's my favorite story of all. Look,
every every artist has a CEO executive story, and I'm
glad that's my story because it could have been with
you hanging me out the window of my ankles or something,
or or any any other unsavory CEO story. How are you?

(04:41):
How are you doing?

Speaker 3 (04:42):
I'm good, man, I'm good. I'm entertained already. This is
already fun.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
So la where right now? Where are you speaking to
us from? I am in Los Angeles in the studio.
We have a studio in Studio City. And I'm I'm
I'm I'm in the studio, all right, my favorite place.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Dare we ask you what you're doing in the studio?
Is this top secret? No?

Speaker 5 (05:11):
You know, I'm always digging and just I love the
idea of being around people. And I just have a
lot of writing camps and some writers and producers come
by meet with people. I'm just always looking for music,
you know. But right now I'm actually working on Usher.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
And it's so good.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, this is camp Usher time, Camp Usher. That's right.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Usher's tiny desk performance is probably a pleasant, well needed
jolt in the right direction of reminding people. And I'm
also I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that. Uh,
The versus Comedy Hour also played a part.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
I missed it.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
I heard about it. Comedy show history.

Speaker 6 (05:59):
Needles to say happy to hear there may be a
Chris and Usher versus that is the dream four hours,
six hours, seven hours.

Speaker 5 (06:07):
I think sometimes people should set those out. That's my opinion.
I don't think that. I don't think they're for everybody.
I think because I don't know.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
The way that initially came to us, I wish it
would have stayed there, which was mainly about like two
producers working on beats at the same time, you know,
like the Buster and what Alchemists was the first one
or was it not the Buster Alchemist? The just Blaze,
Swizz and.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Swizz and ten.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
That was first. Yeah, just Blaze and the Alchemists.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
I remember, if we're talking about verses, how versus started,
that was.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Well, I meant the the pre versus there was like
there was this thing where like just Blaze and Alchemist
would do this back and forth thing. You don't remember
remember the yeah yeah right. But for me, I was
kind of hoping that that was more of the modus
operandi where it wasn't about you know, winner take all.

(07:08):
But I think, you know, once the pandemic started, people
just want to entertainment, and that seemed like a logical
way to keep people entertained, of course with the best
aless talent, but eventually you're gonna run out of a
list talent, right, and then what do you do.

Speaker 6 (07:24):
It was supposed to be the classics too, It was
supposed to be like up into you know, a certain
age kind of era range. I felt like too, and
they kind.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Of well, now, just think it's finding somebody that has
had ten to fifteen notable hits, right, which is that
that was going to run dry quickly, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 5 (07:44):
And so that's funny because I don't always like to
bring light to it. But the truth is, we're hard
pressed to find artists with fifteen to twenty hits sacks.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
That's hard, it is, and those that have it aren't
with us anymore, right, And so the well is, I mean,
we're in we're in a place right now where it's
diminished returns, and you know, you gotta let people in
the door. Like lately, I will say, for my own group,
you know, we've been having this sort of conversation with

(08:18):
the powers that be at least the last five to
six years, like you have to let us in the door,
Like who the hell is left? You know what? I mean,
so it's sort of like I'm not saying that there
was a begrudging all right, come in, you know, like
that sort of thing.

Speaker 6 (08:32):
But could battle, y'all. That's kind of hard. That's hard anyway,
that's a.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
We're not even built like that. Yeah, we we did.
We did get in, we did get an offer once.
I guess I could mention it now.

Speaker 6 (08:46):
Yeah, please tell everybody, because you're totally the.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Roots and Goodie Mob had a versus on the table
that we weren't able to do and really wow, But
you know, I mean that.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Is I get it, though, I actually get it. As
odd as it is, I kind of get it.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Well, I meant, but you guys don't have rivals.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
The truth is you don't have rivals because we don't
live in an erab for there's no black bands. First
of all, you're an only black band that and and forever,
so you you would actually have to go back and
battle like like cameos.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
I would have actually we talked to our last episode
was with Larry. Amazing episode, by the way. No, I
think probably if it were to come down to that,
we probably would do like d'angela did, which is like
have roots and a whole bunch of friends come by
and so fun. Anyway, Jo, we're wasting time here, La.

(09:45):
What was your very first musical memory.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
Sh first musical memory ever, like.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Ever, your first thought of music? What like what it
might be?

Speaker 5 (09:57):
It might be a little hazy, but I think that
it was growing up Cincinnati, Ohio in the kitchen, small kitchen,
transistor radio in the window, and I think it was
It's My Party, and I cry if I want to. Yes,
I think it was that because for some reason I

(10:19):
remember that name, Quincy Jones. Don't know why, but like
I knew that name as a baby and it never left,
you know. I think it was that, or it was
something from Motown, right, like one of those dancing in
the streets.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
So I can't exactly. I was very young.

Speaker 5 (10:36):
But the one that, the one that got me though,
the one that, like the life changing moment, was when
I heard give the drummer some and and cold sweat
James Brown. That moment, like that was that the world stopped.
So speaking of Cincinnati. Oh, by the way, uh case

(10:58):
our listeners don't know. Not many people knew that Quincy
Jones produced Leslie Gores. It's My Party.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
That's his very first, very first hit as a as
a pop producer. I was going to say that I noticed,
at least from what Bootsie told me and just from
observing that anyone who's in proximity of King Records and

(11:24):
their whole operation had their life changed, either as someone
that works inside of King Records or the studio or
the factory, or someone like Bouotie Collins did hung in
the alley way and just hoped maybe one day we'll
get used or something like that. Yep. But because there
is a five year of five to ten year age

(11:45):
discrepancy of you and Boucie's generation, right, how did the
James Brown Ohio effect? And Plus this also explains why
Ohio is the funk capital of the United States, because
I mean, basically, King Records moved their operations to Cincinnati,
and basically at a time period in which the ripple

(12:09):
effects started happening even in other cities like Funk just
spread throughout Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, been all over. So just
as a ten year old, were you aware of James
Brown's presence in the city.

Speaker 5 (12:24):
I feel like I didn't know it officially, but I
felt the presence. Like the first concenter ever went to
was a James Brown concert at the Cincinnati Convention Center,
and I hung outside and I met mace O Parker
and that that was a big deal for me, like
literally walking down the street outside the convention Center. And

(12:46):
also King Records was like a few doors down from
like my karate school as a kid, right, so I
would go to karate school, but when I wait on
the bus, right, take the bus home afterwards, and I
knew that that was King Records. So I never saw
a soul, but I would just stare at it. I
felt drawn to it. But then as I got like

(13:10):
slightly older, all the musicians in Cincinnati were all so
impacted by Bootsy and James Brown, but more Bootsy to
be honest, right, James was like the godfather of soul,
but Bootsy was our local superstar. So everything that Bootsy did,
we all, you know, aspired to do. Bootsy holds his

(13:32):
base this way, so you hold your.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Base like Bootsy.

Speaker 5 (13:35):
Right, Bootsy wears these kind of shoes or he has
these Everything was about whatever boots he did was the magic,
you know, and he was like a god to us.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
James Brown needed Booty more than Boots. He needed James
even though Bosi needed that guidance, right, Yeah, James Brown
needed that validation of you know, the next generation respecting him.
And this was the first song super bad, very first
song with sex Machine. Sex Machine was boosy, very first one. Yeah, okay,

(14:08):
you got it. There's there's an amazing all right. So
they did that song in two takes and there's a
there's a really amazing rare dialogue for James, Like if
you listen to James's outtakes, normally it's sarcasm or I
mean not like mean spirited, but like if they mess
up or whatever, you'll you'll you'll you'll hear them like

(14:30):
chass Tis the engineer or something like that. But when
they do the second take of sex Machine, there's like
a forty five minute conversation of James just like you
hear him walking in the studio and tell them like
like being encouraging almost, like which is rare for James Brown.
But he's like obviously knows like these these six seventeen

(14:52):
eighteen year old kids are really really scared right now,
and he's just oh no, you got it, man, like
you can do it. And da da d D like,
which is oh wow, compared to the rest of what
James does, like on the other takes or whatnot. Like,
it's almost like he knew that he was dealing with children,
you know what I.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Right, So, yeahs some sensitivity and he was, yeah, that's great.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
So you're a drummer sort No, you're you're a drummer.
I played the drums.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Well okay, well, first of all, your home situation. What
was your domestic home situation then, like, was your family
musically inclined? Your parents?

Speaker 5 (15:37):
And my immediate family meaning my mother, my sisters. We
had a stepfather there. I never knew my father, but
we had a stepfather there. Occasionally he was there, I'm
being me and he was there. But they played music
because they had poker games all the time, right, So
they always played music and it was always kind of

(15:59):
a The weekends were festive. And eventually I became.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Like the guy to play the records at a very.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
Young age, right, And I could play what I wanted
to play, you know, So I played slat in the
family stone, or I played war or I played you know,
whatever I wanted to listen to at the time. And
James Brown and you know King Floyd.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
I remember that song.

Speaker 6 (16:24):
Was it a situation where you where they say, let
me see what you got the first record?

Speaker 5 (16:28):
No, it's just like the record player would stop and
they're all and they're all into the game. So I
just walk over and play what I wanted to play
and no one said anything.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Okay, So question for them for that music. And at
that time, would that be the equivalent of say, like
my nephew or my guy kids putting trap music on?
When say the adults in the room when he hears
something older, yeah, more Ray Charles.

Speaker 5 (16:53):
So like they love Bobby Womack. They just like, you
know communications album. I think it was like they they
like they like things that felt more like the blues,
more soul, blues and and funk.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Was the music of the kids?

Speaker 5 (17:09):
Yeah, yeah for your people from Ohio.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, everybody's from Ohio. Yeah. So I have an uncle.
I had an uncle. He passed away, and he's a drummer.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
He is a jazz drummer, right, And I remember him
taking me to jam sessions with him when I was
very very young, and he set up a set of
drums in his uh in his apartment and he lived
in an apartment, so you couldn't like, you couldn't really play.
So I was just playing with my fingers, but I
was playing James Brown.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
That's the best I could. And he was like, that's
not music. Oh man, that's not music. Yeah, that's music.

Speaker 5 (17:44):
Jazz guy, a jazz guy like that.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
Okay, I got it.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
So I knew early on, like, okay, I see, I
see what the purists are thinking here, you know, versus.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
That was commercial. James Brown was commercial. And by the way,
your music, your real music college can ask your question.
So did Miles Davis? Now who ripped off? Who?

Speaker 1 (18:07):
But h so what? Yo? So what Miles was first?
Pee Wee pee Wee Ellis? Yes, yeah, I went on
record to say that you know all those and actually
all those guys start alongside your uncle, as in, I'm

(18:28):
a jazz musician, but let me just make some money
on the side and play this pop stuff that I
don't care about, and then I'll have a jazz career.
And basically, Pee Wee Ellis would basically steal jazz arrangements
that he liked and incorporated James Brown. So the whole
cold Sweat is essentially what.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Right? Right? Okay?

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah, yeah, and so that's that's that's weird for me
because like I know, and that's the thing where even today,
like just to fight my urge to not say something
derogatory to you know, another generation about their music. You know,

(19:16):
like for instance, like trap is about to be old
school and now drill is replacing that and right, and
so the temptation to not roll my eyes in the
air right is heavy, right, And I don't. I don't
want to be the guy that's just like performatively co

(19:39):
signing everything just to make me look young and me
look hip. Right. But you know, it's it's weird how
the timeline of music lasts, whereas something could be totally
foreign to you but seems like so innovative to the
next generation.

Speaker 6 (19:54):
It's funny because they both share regional commonality too, because
a lot of New York is jazz musicians. Because my
dad is eighty something, he was a jazz musician. They
thought James Brown was country, just like how some New
Yorkers may think about trap and you know other music.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
That's right, Yeah, definitely that How old were you when
you felt that you really developed your drumming skills?

Speaker 5 (20:20):
I was probably about fifteen and I actually liked the story.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
I was in a choir class.

Speaker 5 (20:26):
Interestingly enough, I was the only one in the choir
class that didn't have to sing.

Speaker 6 (20:31):
Right.

Speaker 5 (20:32):
My music teacher was incredible. His name was Terry Brown,
and he was the choir teacher. And he had a
class that all the talented people in school were in
this class, all the singers, all the you know, the performers,
the guys that knew how to do the harmony. And
I was just drawn to the class and he liked me,

(20:53):
and he let me hang out in the class although
I wasn't in the choir and I ended up like
standing there for hours and hours day. But he had
a group outside of school called the Mystics, and it
was a three man singing group. It was Terry Brown,
it was Gerald Brown, and I don't remember the third
guy's name. And one day I'm walking down the hall.

(21:17):
I'm probably I'm about fifteen years old. I always carried
my sticks in my pocket. I bet you can relate
to that, right, I just always kept them with me, right,
And he stopped me in the hall and he said, hey,
you have you have a set of drums.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
I was like, yeah, what are you doing this? Weekend.

Speaker 5 (21:32):
He said, I want you to audition. Bring your drums
to Mary Junior High School. I forgot the time, and
I want you to audition. So I walk in and
there's three other two other drummers. I'm sorry, there's three total.
There's two other drummers and there's one guy.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
This guy he has he looked like he looked like
he was going to kill it. He had a beautiful,
big afro.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
He had a double bassed drum and the most beautiful
kit in the world. And I came in with like
this little ricky dick that's what we call it. I
don't know if you guys know I came in with.
I came in with the rinky dink kit right, with
like one crash symbol, one ride symbol, and some my
hats one time, and this dude intimidated me. But when

(22:20):
he started playing, he wasn't good, and I was like, oh, and.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
We were playing.

Speaker 5 (22:28):
I remember the audition like it was yesterday, and we
were playing the Ojays.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
The Ojas had.

Speaker 5 (22:36):
Backstabbers nine hundred and ninety two arguments. Yeah right right,
that's that's Philly music, right, And but it was my turn,
Like I knew those songs cold, and so I aced
it and I got the gig.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
So that weekend.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
The following weekend, he took me to Chicago and we played,
uh the weekend gig at a place called the Skyway.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
And I was fifteen years old.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
So you were just allowed to leave the crib.

Speaker 5 (23:09):
My mom was okay with it, Like I talked to her.
She trusted my teacher, and we drove to Chicago from Cincinnati,
did two shows, and came back and had about seventy
five dollars. Mom was okay with that real money. Yeah, okay,

(23:31):
that was pretty good money. That was seriously some good money.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
That was awesome money.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
And that was the beginning that your daddy paid a
mere He paid what.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Was my rate In nineteen eighty I made one hundred
dollars a night. So at the end of the week
I make six hundred dollars. Wow, I was rich for
like an elementary school kid. I want too many records.
By the time I became his band leader, you had
me somewhere in between. I think in the eighty three
I started at one hundred and fifty no, one hundred

(24:03):
and twenty five bucks a show, and then by the
time the very last show before I I you know,
the roots went to live in London. I think what
was I making man? Maybe like three seventy five. So yeah,
but like you know, four days with my dad. You know,

(24:23):
that made me very popular lunchtime. At lunchtime, you buy
me a cheese steak a bit like.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
All right. So in Cincinnati, are there any other notable
musicians or songwriters or your fellow crew that we would
know that was coming up with you at the time.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Most of them you won't know.

Speaker 5 (24:51):
But the most important are the members of the group
Midnight Star, And that would be Reggie Callaway and Vincent
Callaway and Melvin Gentry and Bo Watson and Belinda Lips
London and yeah, and they were serious. They were very serious,
and they were the first ones. Oh and there's also

(25:12):
my friend Toughie who played he's a keyboard.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Player and he played with Zapp.

Speaker 5 (25:17):
Oh okay, right, and he sung he sung the song
all right, It's going to be all right?

Speaker 3 (25:22):
He sung lead on that. Right.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
So, so there was the Midnight Star crew and Roger
and the Human Body or Roger and Novels or Zapp
or however you might know them. That was that Crew
and the and we always felt that we felt the
energy of Parliament Funkadelic somehow, some way, Like I remember
going to Club Diplomat and it was a bunch of
musicians that looked like they might be in Parliament right right,

(25:50):
and they smelled like they might be in Parliament, and.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
It was broken and they had a lot of groups.

Speaker 5 (25:59):
There was one called the Over the Hill Gang, but
they all it was a whole funk movement. I just
remember like it felt like they were on some tour
because it was so many of these guys and they
just kind of stopped at that club played that night,
so we were around them all.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
But the most.

Speaker 5 (26:13):
Important and meaningful were Midnight Star and those are the
guys that we actually wrote with and they produced our
first album with my band and kind of taught us
the art of songwriting.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Walk us through the process of what it took for
a band to get local gigs. Are you localized as
in Cincinnati only, or do you have it so that
you can go out of state and those types of things.

Speaker 5 (26:44):
We were Cincinnati for the for the most part, and
then Indianapolis, which was one hundred miles away, and it
was kind of a strange phenomenon when when we started,
when we were ready to play in the club, music
started to change.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
And this was probably like.

Speaker 5 (27:05):
Seventy seven something like that, seventy six seventy seven, and
Cincinnati was slightly more progressive than like Indianapolis, which was,
like I said, one hundred miles away and disco was
taking over. So there were no gigs in Cincinnati. I mean,
we played the clubs in Cincinnati, like there were like

(27:25):
four or five clubs that we would play weekends. But
somebody turned me on to a club called the Zodiac
Lounge in Indianapolis.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
This was life changing.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
I drive, I drive to Indianapolis with my band members,
go to this club, see the club owner, and they
hired us to play six nights a week. That didn't
happen in Cincinnati. So now we're doing six nights a week,
four shows per night, like four forty five minute sets
per night, six nights a week night.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
And you're doing one hundred miles each each.

Speaker 5 (27:58):
Well, we literally ended up moving there. We got an
apartment there. Okay, we got the gig, went back, got
our gear, came back, stayed in the hotel for a
couple of nights. Really bad cheap hotel. I forgot what
it was called. Maybe it was the Rego eight something
like that, right, or the Motel six You're in trouble, Yeah, yeah, right,

(28:21):
it was those. So we got a little apartment and
we ended up staying there for three or four, about
four years, playing clubs, and it went from one club
to the next and all over the city. And that's
where we really kind of learned.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
So what was it about that particular environment that was
a jackpop moment as opposed to you know, the city
that we would expect right wide, open door of music
to come from.

Speaker 5 (28:51):
The difference was entertainment nightly, right, and so that meant
it was no longer a weekend thing.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
That it wasn't.

Speaker 5 (28:59):
It was which weekends could that could be hobby even
though we were serious, that could be deean hobby, whereas
six nights a week, that's your job.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Okay, So you're saying before seventy seven, a Monday night
party somewhere wasn't a thing. Thursday night party wasn't the thing.
Only Friday Saturdays and.

Speaker 5 (29:20):
Sunday Saturday, Friday Saturday for the most part, right, and
then and then there might be an occasional wedding fashion
show something like that.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
But but for the clubs were only weekends.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
And we went to Indianapolis and it was like it's
like seven or eight clubs that had entertainment every night
and all the bands were competing. And that's when I
met some That's when I realized that there was a
different caliber of musicians. Like in Cincinnati, everybody was funk.
We were all funk musicians and some people could you know,

(29:55):
maybe jazz influenced, maybe a little blues influence, but we
were all funk. When I went to Indianapolis, which is
where Babyface is from, and Reggie Griffin you might know
Reggie Griffin and Rayferl Griffin his brother who's like this
incredible fusion drummer, right, and it was just a it
was an entire community of really really gifted musicians. I

(30:17):
realized then that I wasn't long for drumming, right. They
put us to shame. It was insane.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
The thing is, I would think that if you're there
for the specific duty or task to make people dance
intricate arrangements, would that matter. I mean, unless you're doing
unless you're trying to do like get Away by Earthwood
and fire or something, I mean, right, and also what's
the rehearsal regiment like, and are you guys able to

(30:49):
nail every song that comes down the path?

Speaker 5 (30:52):
It's cover songs, right, obviously it's all cover songs, so
you know, you know, you learn all the Rick James
songs or whatever is how you know. And we would
do that in the daytime in the basement, you know,
or or at the club, you know, when we lived
in the apartment, we would do it at the club
during the day. Eventually we got a small house and

(31:13):
we had a basement that we could rehearse in and
try to record. But yeah, it was still all you're right,
it was about dancing. But we have four sets, so
the first set you could do whatever you wanted to
do because the club wasn't crowded yet, so that's when
you could do experimental stuff and try out a new
song that you may have written or or pretend to

(31:35):
be returned to forever.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I was gonna say, you're gonna say return to ever
in like five seconds? Yeah, you know, right, I knew,
I just knew it.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
We played at it, you know, we never play.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
All right, explain one thing though, because I think for
every musician, they're either Team weather Report or Team Turned
to Forever. Now that's great in my real life. In
my real life, I've okay, So amongst a certain cowbird
musician friends I have, I've I've gone on record to

(32:15):
say that, you know, I feel like a bad Philadelphia
because I'm not exactly on the Stanley Clark band wagen
as I should be right as in Philadelphia, like the
song of his I love the Most is so on Him,
which is the heaven sent joint with Howard Hewitt. But

(32:37):
what was it about return to Because I was always
Team weather Report? But what was it about return to
Forever that had you guys' attention? Because literally everyone your age,
anyone born the latter half of the fifties beginning of
the sixties, there's a love for return to Forever that
you know. And no, no, no, I'm not even asking

(32:58):
as adversarial, because yes, I Lenny White, I love Chick Carea.
But I just never had someone explain to me what
was it about return to Forever?

Speaker 3 (33:08):
So it was first it was Chick Corea.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
It really was chick that that led that because the
way he composed it felt like obviously it was jazz fusion,
but there was this classical element.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
And it was this classical element and.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
The way that they would play, the way that they
would like play riffs together, you know, like everybody sort
of playing the same riff. You know, nobody else played
like that like uh. And they found a way to
do that and be and groove and be in the groove.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
And I was I like Stanley Clark, but not like
Jacko Pastory. It's like not even close for me personally,
I'm not gonna get in trouble for this, but I'm
I'm team weather Reporting. That conversation like easy, easily and
Joe Zawana was way more soulful than like than Chick Korea.
So I mean he did mercy, mercy, mercy for cannaball.

(34:03):
I mean, this boy, this man is no joke. So
I'm really probably a Weather Report guy, except that Lenny White,
you know, was just so bad man.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
You know. But if I had to pick, I couldn't take.
I couldn't. I'm glad I don't have to.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
You said you mentioned having a band, but what was
the band's name.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
My band was called Essence.

Speaker 5 (34:27):
My band was called Pure Essence at first, and and
pure essence was it was some kind of take on Stylistically,
it was somewhere between sliding the family Stone, earth Wind
and Fire with the love of fusion music, not the ability,

(34:48):
but the love.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
That was that was a great way to smooth it out.
All right. So let's let's move forward to your your
in Indianapolis now or you're in Indiana right. How did
you How did you meet Babyface?

Speaker 5 (35:11):
So he had a band. He was in a band
called Manchild. Yeah, and they were really good and they
were like stars.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Man.

Speaker 5 (35:19):
Everybody in the group was like looked like they was
six foot and and and weighed one hundred and fifty pounds.
They looked like just like everybody in the band looked
like Mick Jagger. I mean, there's a fox start. Look
at these guys. Man and Kenny was in the band.
It's a guitar player. I didn't meet them when we
when we were in I didn't meet him when we

(35:42):
had the band Essence, my first band. I literally met
him after we started the group the deal, right, because
a quick story was we sort of ran my band
Essence kind of ran out of gas. We got became complacent,
we didn't renew we didn't refresh, and eventually we kind
of got kicked off the circuit. And this club owner,

(36:06):
I got to tell you this. This club owner tell
me his name is Walt Manning. He owns a club
called the Night Flight. The night Flight is the hippies
club in Indianapolis. On one level it's a DJ and
on the lower level live band. And the deal was,
if you can get people to come from the disco downstairs,

(36:28):
that's how you make your money. To give us a
small advance. But we would get the door and it'd
be like a thousand people upstairs and they play off
the wall. They were playing down the summers. They were
playing like disco. It was in full full till and
we were downstairs and like fifteen people might come down.

(36:50):
Half of them would like the people that we knew.
And we had a couple of weeks off. I went
to the club and asked the club owner, walked if
I could get in it, if I can get one
hundred dollars advance for my band so I could like
pay the rent and give my guy some food. And
he says, there ain't gonna be no advance because you're fired.

(37:10):
And let me tell you why you fired. You fired
because you guys suck your drop. You're boring. No one
comes downstairs. You need to read news, you need to
rip off a sleeve or die your hair or do something,
because all of this, this socially conscious thing you're doing
is completely boring. You're out of step with the times.
And I mean, he just read me man.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Wow. I was like, WHOA, what year was this?

Speaker 5 (37:34):
This would have been seventy nine, eighties something like that.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Oh, I'm like whoa.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
And y'all were still hanging on to like got to
give it up, like songs from like nineteen seventy six.

Speaker 5 (37:47):
Yeah We're still, Yeah, we're there, and and early Earth
Winning Fire like like the wrong Earth Winning Fire songs,
you know.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
And this guy just read man.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
And then he goes into cash redster and he pulls
one hundred dollar bill out and he throws it on
the counter. He says, I'm gonna give you one hundred
dollar bill, but I never want to see you again.
And you don't owe me the hundred but you owe
it to somebody, so pay it forward and get the hell.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Out of here. And fired us. He was drunk and
he was an alcoholic, right.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Oh, I was going to say, that's the best firing
I ever heard. I need to use that shit.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Yeah, yeah, he gave me.

Speaker 5 (38:25):
So I got the hundred dollars now and I go
back and I think about what the man is saying,
and I immediately knew he was right. I immediately knew
that we had somewhere slipped, and I was like, Okay,
so I need to bust this thing up and start
all over. And that's how we started the deal, right

(38:45):
was So my bass player, his name is Ko, He's
my best friend. Also, we let everybody else go. We said,
you know, Ko, Ko plays on all the records, Face
and Whitney and Bobby and all that shit. But he's
really incredible, really really talented. So he and I started

(39:07):
the band. We first let everybody go, say, guys, we're
going to end the band and it's just not working.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
It's run its course.

Speaker 5 (39:15):
So we went back to our hometown of Cincinnati, and
he and I just sett in either his mom's house
or my mom's house, and we just kind of thought about, like,
who are the most talented kids that we went to
school with that also had the presence of a star.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Like we started thinking about it differently.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
We started thinking about it beyond like who could be
beyond talent? But that combination of talent and start them,
that's when that really sort of first came into my consciousness.
And so we picked a couple of guys that we
thought were really good and we started the band, the Deal.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
We went back to Indianapolis.

Speaker 5 (39:52):
Well, we sort of getting kicked off at the circuit
and I went to the club owner. I said, just
give us a week, give us one week in the club,
and I'll show you because they lost confidence in us.
And that week, oh, I left something important out. The
deal was a Prince copy band.

Speaker 6 (40:12):
A copy band, not a cover, but just a copy.

Speaker 5 (40:17):
Stylistically like, we wanted to look like them, we wanted
to play like them.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
We did some of their songs, we did some of
the time, some of.

Speaker 5 (40:24):
The Prince right, and we were completely like Minneapolis kids
all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Right, So can I ask is you know? And it's
rare for me to ask someone who's actually of the
age at the time it's happening. But when he came
out like was it totally a this guy is just
of a different ilk than everyone else.

Speaker 5 (40:49):
It was so obvious, Like I didn't even know whether
this records or hits or not. I didn't really look
at charts and all this stuff, right, but it was
so obvious that it was him and I was, and
also so Bootsy co signed it. I was looking at
black Beat magazine. I don't know, I forgot to know that.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Young he.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
Said.

Speaker 5 (41:16):
Bootsy said Prince is next. He said it in a magazine,
and I.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Was like, damn. I kind of thought so.

Speaker 5 (41:22):
But when he said it, that was like the validation, right,
and there was no there was no turning back.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Prince was the Prince was the king.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
I grew up an environment where he was taboo and
you weren't not even you weren't allowed to. Every adult
I knew hated Prince, right, So that just made it
even more like, all right, well let me see what
they're talking about. But I've just never been in an
environment with someone who is an adult or of the

(41:52):
age like teld the story of them seeing it and
being like, yo, I like this.

Speaker 6 (41:58):
That's because you come from older music too, Because my
mother loves fucking Prince.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
As soon as he popped out, Oh my mom told
me don't play that in her house.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Really, everyone thought Prince was the devil yo.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
Yeah, she's a don't play them because he had a
song called Ancestors Everything is said to be and she's like,
you will not play that in my house.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Time out you, all right? So when Dirty Mind comes out,
Now here's the weird thing. I mean, when four You
came out, you know, he was in right on magazine
and all that stuff, and I have a sister who's
slightly older than me, so her and her high school
girlfriends were bored. And then you know, when the second
Galm came out with I Want to Be a Lover
and all that stuff, they were bored. Now the thing

(42:39):
is when Dirty Mind came out, especially in Philadelphia, I
swear to you maybe I heard Uptown once on the radio,
right and besides right on magazine, I would have never
known what Dirty Mind was. So it's almost as if
Dirty Mind never came out, and we went right to

(42:59):
the time and controversy and I didn't even catch I
didn't catch up on Dirty Mind until after Purple Rain,
when then it was like, all right, you got to
be completest and get everything. But Philly radio was not
playing anything off of Dirty Mind. And I think by then,
like my sisters love of that type. You know, it

(43:20):
just sort of waned a little bit. So, as far
as I knew, he just disappeared all of nineteen eighty. Wow,
So you're saying that when Dirty Mind came out in
real time, Oh my god, it was guys got it
and totally understood and got.

Speaker 5 (43:35):
It everything about it, the way they dressed, everything, they
talked about, party up and had and all these songs
that we were deep, deep deep into prints, like deep
into it and just thought he was the greatest thing ever.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Like in my mind, it was a flop and nobody
was with it, right He quickly.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Crazy recovered, So we didn't. You know what's crazy is.

Speaker 5 (43:58):
At that time we were so into Prince that we
didn't judge whether something was a success or not because
we were just so blown away by his First of all,
he was playing everything and and and doing all that
was that was as far as I knew, that was unusual.
And he was on this sort of punk thing, right,

(44:21):
and that was he was.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
He was borrowing from new.

Speaker 5 (44:24):
Wave and and incorporating it into this sort of funk thing.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
He was just an original. It felt like an original
to me. Was he?

Speaker 5 (44:35):
So was it done in a way because I also
know that, you know, Rick kind of had a missed
with or a miss with the Guard of Love record,
which I mean, I don't know if Big Time really
could have saved that record, but he was really Rick
James was trying to like really make a statement like
here's my my star moment and.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Really made a pop album.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Right.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
And what's weird is I can't wait to get lee
Roy Burgess on the show because if you listen to
the intro of Big Time, you can clearly hear that edit, like,
I know, the Leleroy Burgess part of Big Time versus
Rick's portion, which is basically I see Leroy Burgess adding
that it's like an eight bar piano intro that's clearly

(45:17):
not Rick James, right, and then they slice splice the
rest of the song to it. But I don't know
for me, was was Rick?

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Not?

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Like in your mind, what was Rick James? Because he
too was trying to establish pump punk and all that stuff.

Speaker 5 (45:37):
Rick was a hit maker, right, Rick had the hits,
you know, Mary Jane and you and I and he
had the hits, but he didn't know to start him
to us, right, He was actually a hit maker before
Prince was, right, but we didn't focus on him.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
In Cincinnati, Indianapolis, the local bands all played.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
Rick James songs everybody.

Speaker 5 (46:02):
Some people played them better than others, but that was
in every local band in their set.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
But you didn't look at it as innovative as I.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
Think back on it, it was, But at that moment
I didn't think so. I thought it was just another
guy making hits. I just didn't I've never focused on it.
It was years later that I looked back on it
and said, wait a minute, this guy's insane, right, you know,
this guy wrote square biz like. This guy's like insanely talented.

(46:34):
Didn't really know it at the time. This didn't quite
catch it because there was something about Prince that just
appealed to us more.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
And you know what, I think it was like in Cincinnati.

Speaker 5 (46:45):
We heard black music, but we also listened to rock, right,
We listened to a lot of rock music on the radio,
like and so I think that that presence of punk
rock and that presence of rock and that presence of
funk that blend Prince. Prince kind of did all of
that as one artist. Uh So, something about that that

(47:08):
really appealed to us.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Wait and now, now I have to ask your audiences
were they receptive to it as well? Because this is
also Middle America, it's not exactly New York. How are
they adapting to.

Speaker 6 (47:26):
Because y'all had the eyeliner too, right, I thought, Baby, say,
y'all committed, like, no, we.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
Went all the way. I'll tell you, we went all
the way.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
His word glam not glam breed.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
That we were breathed.

Speaker 5 (47:37):
You a breed, which minute the new the new breed,
the new breed? Right we were We were our generations
version of whatever hip hop might have represented. Like we were,
but except you had to be really bold and daring
and audacious and brave to pull it off because you
know you're going to be criticized by everybody on a

(47:59):
musician level, on a human level, right, people are gonna
question your sexuality everything. Right, You're putting a lot at
risk here to be a part of the movement. So
we went all the way. Eyeliner, the Jerry Curl, everything,
you know, the makeup. We we went crazy with it.
But but you know what's crazy is we didn't We

(48:23):
didn't even audition for our record label.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
We never met our record label.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
We literally sent a photograph and a demo of two songs,
body Talk, three songs Body Talk, a song called just
My Luck their Face wrote, and a song called I Surrender.
We literally sent three songs and a photograph and we
got signed to dig Griffy.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
No, we just we gave it to a man.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
We had a manager, we shared a manager with Midnight
Star's name was Pablo Davis.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
And he went to turn In.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
He went to Solar to turn in and no parking
on the dance floor, which was nice, big album, and
so we caught it. We caught a tail wind because
in that meeting he said, Okay, I also have this
man at a Cincinnati called the Deal and he shows
them the photo, plays them the demo and we got
a record deal.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Do you remember what was on the demo talk.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Just my Luck?

Speaker 1 (49:23):
And so the Body Talk that is the demo? Is
that the version we know? Or did you guys?

Speaker 3 (49:31):
The recorded version is a little bit better.

Speaker 5 (49:35):
It's a little bit better, like uh yeah, because you'd
appreciate this. The demo was all the Oberheim drum machine, right,
and then not that one, No, the first that was
one called the d X, the d M d m X, Yes, right, okay,
and like it was looked like an Oberheim keyboard, and

(49:58):
so that the the demo version was purely that the
the recording had like real high hats and real crash.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
That's the only difference. But it made it sound. It
sounded better.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Damn. I would like to hear that one, you know.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
What I mean, Like you know that the d MS was.

Speaker 5 (50:18):
The real heart was like it's a whole different sound, right,
and and and it moved differently.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
You know, so you kind of skipped apart. Okay, how
did that version of the deal wind up being that
version of the deal with all the members that we know?

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Because baby yeah, I was trying to get back to
how I met face.

Speaker 5 (50:39):
So so that band is playing the clubs and you know,
unlike my first band, pure essence, Uh, the deal is
packing them, man, people are coming like this whole edge
that we had and this androgyny that we seemed to have,
and this music was, uh, it was a sensation, a

(51:01):
little bit a local sensation. And we went from having
fifteen people in the room to like one hundred people
and one hundred and ten hundred and fifteen hundred and
twenty like and we start having lines around it was
incredible that we had.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
We were a local success.

Speaker 5 (51:15):
If that had been the Internet, we would have been trending,
like you know, we had a little buzz. So one
night I've met face Kenny at the time, and he
came to watch our band and his manager introduced me
to him. All I remember is us looking at each
other saying hi. And then fast forward a few months later,

(51:37):
a keyboard player friend of mine called and said, hey, man,
Kenny Edmans wants to join your band.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
And I said, Nah, he's not breed enough.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
I was like, nah, he ain't got the thing.

Speaker 5 (51:56):
You know, he's like regular, he's normal, you know, you know, No,
he didn't have and so I literally passed on it.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
And then.

Speaker 5 (52:07):
Midnight Star I hired their keyboard player, Bo Watson. I
didn't hire, I asked him to come in and play
a session for us because somebody paid for a session
for the deal to record and I needed a keyboard player.
So I called Bo Watson, who had known from the
Indianapolis music circuit, and Bow came over and he listened

(52:28):
and he played on the record with us, and he
went back and told everybody in his bad like these
guys are onto something. So the next day the manager comes,
Reggie Callaway, everybody comes and hears us, and they say, well,
we love what you guys are doing. We want to
sign you. We want to sign you to our company
called mid Star Productions. I was like, Okay, this sounds good,

(52:49):
this seems this is a little bit better than playing
at the club. Started liking this, So I go to
the studio one night to visit them. They were recording,
and there's this guy. It's dark, he's in the booth
and I can't see the guy, but he's singing this
song called play another slow jam, this time make it Sweet.
And he's singing it. I'm like, who is this boy

(53:11):
with this voice? Just like this tender voice, like sounded
so good. He comes out of the booth as Kenny Edmunds,
except he has got a trench coat, he's got the
Jerry curR.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
I made his breath. He's completely breathed, and I'm like, Yo.

Speaker 5 (53:28):
This is the dude I just said he couldn't joined
the band, and I mean he now he is.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
He suited up.

Speaker 5 (53:36):
And I'm like, and the most gifted of anybody I've
ever met. I never met anybody that gifted, right, that
could really like write a song and make a demo
and do all the parts and sing in the background,
and and the lyrics.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Were like like really poetry, I know. Let anybody like him.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Was a raincoat and some underwear and the.

Speaker 5 (53:59):
Jerry girl, Yes I had glasses.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
You know.

Speaker 5 (54:08):
That was it, man, And that's how we that's how
that version of the band. So I asked him to
join the band, and uh, he said, what will I do?
I said, well, I'd like you to be the guitar player,
keyboard player and and be a writer and like co produced. Damn,
but you can't sing because we have to lead singers.

(54:31):
And he was like okay.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
So we went.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
We went, made all our demos, got a recording contract
with Solo Records, and uh, he didn't sing on the
first album.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
Wow, that changed.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
That was a flex? Was that you said that?

Speaker 6 (54:44):
When he said okay, you know, in the back of
his mind was like you'll be back.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
He was already set on doing a solo album.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
Honestly, even though he was in our band, he was
already in his mind, I'm going to be a solo artist.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
All right.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
So look, I mean we've had everyone on the show,
including non Solar signees. One of y'all are going to
tell me a real damn story about grif All right, man,

(55:18):
but I got you.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Ask the ques, come on, talk to me, talk to
what was about? What was outside?

Speaker 1 (55:26):
We outside? First of all, you're you're you were in Indiana.
You're eventually gonna have to go to Los Angeles. Talk
about the move to that. But this is the thing,
is I keep hearing like these nearest sub night stories
of don't mess with Dick Griffy. What was Dick Griffy like?

Speaker 5 (55:47):
So the first time I met him, my first phone
call after we put our record out, put out Body
Talk and it's starting to climb the charts, and he
calls our house. I never met the man, he said,
whoever answer, He says, let me speak to Antonio. That's
how he talked. By the way, I can imitate him

(56:08):
really good. So I pick up the phone. Antonio, Dick Griffy,
the record that Body Talk, the records a smash, right,
and I just wanted to welcome you to the label.
Everything was like kind of right.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
So I went.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
So after that, fast forward, I go to LA and
I meet him and I go into his office with
Reggie Callaway because we just mixed our album, went to
turn it in and I meet him and him, but
I was asided.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
I was just like the kid in the band.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
It was Reggie Callaway and Dick Griffy's meeting, and Dick
said he wanted certain things to happen on the record,
and Reggie was like, no, we're not doing that.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
So I immediately saw you.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Give me an idea of what his idea of what?

Speaker 5 (56:56):
What did he want? I don't remember what he wanted, like,
I don't remember, but he.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Was giving creative advice.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Yeah, creative advice. It was really creative, very like he's yes,
ok he was.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
But more than in that CEO way of that's a hit,
that's not a hit. What do you say, like the
vocals it too loud, or I don't like those drums, or.

Speaker 5 (57:19):
More like this is a hit versus or you should
try this producer, or you should try this songwriter, or
you know, putting Leon Silvers with Chalamar or like that
kind of stuff. Okay, Yeah, he was good. He was
really good. So so my first real encounter, my first

(57:43):
real encounter was first album comes out, second album. It's
time to make the second album, and we make it.
We make the album in Cincinnati, in Columbus, Ohio, the studio,
and we sent demos into Dick Griffy and he liked
some stuff, some stuff. He questioned. He had a particular

(58:05):
fondness for Kenny because Kenny would sing on demos and
he was like, he thought he was really incredible. So
the first, my first encounter was this song called Sweet
November that Babyface did for the deal, right, and how.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
M did that? First?

Speaker 5 (58:22):
I forgot yeah, yeah, okay, And so it's on the
demo and Dick Griffy hears it. He says, who is
that singing Sweet November? I said, that's Kenny. I want
that on the album. I said, well, we had a problem.
I said, what's the problem. But the problem is that
we made a deal when we started the group that

(58:45):
our two lead singers, Carlos and d would do all
the vocals on the album. That's Kenny singing. And he
was like, well, that's a stupid deal. And you put
that song on the record or ain't gonna be no record?

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (59:03):
I got it, Kenny, your songs on the album? You said,
Tweet November maybe the album? Right. So that was my
first sort of encounter.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
How are you taking the unofficial I guess you're now
the figurehead, the father of the group.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Yeah, I kind of always was. I don't know. It
was my idea to go get everybody.

Speaker 5 (59:27):
I put it all on my shoulders and said, you know,
if you guys rock with me, I'll do my best
to take care of you.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
Yeah, it seems like you from as you when you're
hearing this about you now, it makes sense that you
were the one that kind of could bridge the gap
between the business and the creative, Like you knew how
to talk to both sides.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
I tried to.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
Yeah, yeah, because I had to negotiate with the club
owners right, you know, for pay and when they wanted
to deduct expenses, and you know, I had to.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
I had to do the tough guy work. But and
they trusted me.

Speaker 5 (01:00:02):
You know, all of us went to high school together,
by the way, except for Babyface was in Indianapolis. But
the rest of the band we all went to high
school together. We were all in that choir class with
mister Brown and you know, so we were all really
like good friends and grew up together in the same neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
So there was a trust factor there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Since you're talking about the the Material Things album.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Yeah, you know that album. I'm so impressed with you.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
Man, I just got to tell you, I never met
anybody with all of us. Yeah, but my my, my
question about Material Things is, and I always I don't
know why it is, but the.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Tom tom programming. I never heard a song in which
the kick drum and the tom toms had to compete
with the each other mix white, So I always wanted
to know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
All that stuff, right, who gets.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
The final word on a final mix? Because? Okay, when
I was younger, material things irked me because I was like, Yo,
those tom Toms are way too loud for this song.
As I got used to hearing it in my older age,
I was like, all right, well, you know, I'm I

(01:01:27):
can see being innovative, but like, who who back for
those records? Was the Callaway brothers that were leaning on
the production? Was it were you guys allowed a word
in edgewise?

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Just as far as structuring the albums full.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
Disclosure, The first album, called Street Beat, was completely produced
by Reggie Calloway and the songs were co written by
the members of Our band and members of Midnight Star. Okay,
when it was time to make the second album, Material Things,
we had fallen out and Callaway Us and Midnight Start

(01:02:05):
we kind of falling out and Reggie didn't want to
produce the second album.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
So Dick Griffy said you produce it. So it was
on me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
I'm like, so me, Reggie didn't want to produce it,
or you guys didn't want Reggie to produce it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:18):
We wanted Reggie, but Reggie didn't want to do it,
and I didn't know why. I thought there was some
It probably had something to do money. Something He never
said to me, like I don't want to produce your record,
but it felt business y.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Did he have that option?

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Again?

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Y'all still tell me nice guys stories about Dick Griffy,
But does Reggie Callaway have an option to mess up
the money by saying, you know what, I'm not going
to produce the second album?

Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
Yeah, because he and Dick Griffy visited my apartment in
Cincinnati and we played them demos that we worked on,
and they collectively decided which songs we should record. So
he Dick gave him a past. Yeah, he let h
He let him sit it out. So Kenny and I
like co produced together. So all those decisions, loud ass

(01:03:10):
tom songs, too fast or that's all me and Kenny
producing for the very first time in our lives and
having following a hit record that Reggie produced. Now it's
on us, and it was it was a complete stiff. Wow,
it was a complete stiff.

Speaker 6 (01:03:31):
That's a good lesson for class.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
So that's that's weird. It's weird for me, all right.
So here this is what I'm just learning. And you know,
I mean, I guess I alluded to the stuff I'm
working on past Summer's Soul, but currently having made an
official announcement, because you know, I will say that there

(01:03:53):
was a popular dance show of the seventies and maybe
other decades of which I'm learning that I'm learning that
the host of said dance show has relationships with different

(01:04:17):
CEOs and no matter what the state of the record
is on the outside world, because there's songs that was
played on this show so many times that I would
instantly thought, oh, that's a hit one of them, which
being material things like all of nineteen eighty four is

(01:04:39):
season Like if you get four spots on the most
important dance portion of that show, then to me, that
was like, oh, you have a bona fide hit. And
it was only later that I figured out that material
things didn't get the same push that body talk in.

Speaker 5 (01:05:00):
You know, It's exactly. It simply wasn't good. It wasn't good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Were you guys scared and were you afraid of getting dropped?

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
No?

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
I didn't even think about it. You know, by the way,
I've been dropped and fired a lot of times. I
never think about it, right, So.

Speaker 6 (01:05:23):
This wasn't the first time.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
I just got fired from.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
I just got fired from the Knife Flight, right, So yeah,
I'm meaning to it.

Speaker 6 (01:05:31):
You know, I love it. You ain't nobody till you
get fired from somewhere, that's what you say.

Speaker 5 (01:05:36):
But no, no, we didn't think about getting dropped. All
I thought about was damn this record. Just I couldn't
get it right, man, I couldn't get it right. I
just couldn't get it right. I tried so many times,
you know, because the studio, I mean studio wasn't cheap,
but we had it on lock so we could go
in and mix it, press and acetate.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
Go to the club. Played at the club.

Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
It didn't sound right, Well, go back and try to
a couple of days and we tried everything, and then
when we thought we had it right and we turned
it in, the label apparently agreed because they made it
the single and it just didn't work, and it was
just embarrassing more than anything. But it also put a
fire in all of us, and I would say particularly

(01:06:21):
myself and Kenny. It really put a fire into us
that and we're competitive people, so we were like, we
can't let Midnight Start be responsible for our success and
then when.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
We get the shot, we blow it right. Let's get
to work.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, I know you don't like
this when this happens, but you know we got more
in store for you. To stay tuned for two more
episodes of this epic Question of Supreme with the Great
La Reid while you had it. Feel free to check
out our other LS episode with Babyface as well. All Right,
see y'all next time. What's Love Supreme is a production

(01:07:15):
of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.