QLS Classic: LA Reid Part 1

The first of L.A. Reid's 3-part QLS recalls his childhood in Cincinnati, playing the Indianapolis club circuit, working with Midnight Star, and meeting Babyface.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
What's Up?

Speaker 3 (00:04):
This is Sugar Steve from questlof Supreme. Anybody who knows
this podcast is well aware that our interviews can last
for hours, so often we split them into two parts.
It also gives listeners a suspenseful reason to come back
next week or check their podcast feed for more episodes.
Back in twenty twenty two, we sat down with la
Reid for what became a rare three part interview.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Part one of La.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Read's three part QLs recalls his childhood in Cincinnati, playing
the Indianapolis club circuit, working with Midnight Star, and meeting Babyface.
This classic episode was taped in July twenty twenty two.
Please rate, like, and subscribe to this on your podcast feeds,
check back for new episodes, and follow our new YouTube
page at QLs.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
You know good and well, you might as well get
some water. Dog. I'm gonna Memphis for all I can,
and you need some snacks or something.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Br All right, ladies and gentlemen, I was already told
at the top of the show, make.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
This quick, quick on this one. I'm going all right, ladies,
ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Uh, this is another episode of Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
How are you guys? That's nice anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
If you know me based on the show, you you
know there's a particular type of interview that I that
we all love the nerd out on, and this is
no exception, I guess today. You know he is former
super executive chairman CEO of Epic Records, former chairman CEO

(01:50):
of def Jam, former president and CEO of Arista, and
also his own uh in print record not to mention, oh,
former award winning songwriter and producer and former drummer and
probably the most moisturized band of all time. Yeah, not

(02:22):
to mention. I mean, look, y'all know me. It's gonna
take forty five minutes once I started reading off the accolades.
Look you already know it, man, like you literally know it.
Two occasions. This guy a girlfriend, This guy Ronnie rock
with you, don't be cruel. This guy into the road,
this guy I love should have brought to you home
last night, this guy not to mention the Axie sign.

(02:44):
Name him Tony Brason, Damien dam Goodie Mom, Jermaine Jackson,
us outcasts. I can name them all, ladies and gentlemen.
We finally have him. I feel like this is the
sequel to the baby Face episode.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
It really is.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
Nah, this is the baby fake, the Baby Safe episode
that was breaking bad.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
This is better call Sault exactly. There you go, yo.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
This this guy is so legend that he even dropped
me from the label and took me back.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
On my birthday. Yo.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
I got dropped the morning of my birthday and came
back the night of my birthday.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Is gonna be a long one.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, please welcome l A Reed, Thank you, thank you, welcome.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
That's accurate, but well, you know, dramatic.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Richard Nichols was so maybe rich was just using a
Jedi mind trick on me to get that I'm done.
Rich woke me up for my birthday and six in
the morning, like a mirror, the brooch just got dropped off.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Def jam. I was like no, literally, I was all depressed.
And then like I we met, didn't we?

Speaker 1 (04:08):
I called you up and I literally called you up
and I left the message.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I was like, come on, dog, guess my birthday. Man.
Ah God, that's my favorite story of all.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Look, every every artist has a CEO executive story, and
I'm glad that's my story because it could have been
with you hanging me out the window of.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
My ankles or something, or.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Or any any other unsavory CEO story.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
How are you? How are you doing? I'm good, man,
I'm good. I'm entertained already. This is already fun.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
So la where right now? Where are you speaking to
us from? I am in Los Angeles in the studio.
We have a studio in Studio City, and I'm I'm
I'm I'm in the studio, all right, my favorite place.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Dare we ask you what you're doing in the studio?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Is this top secret? No?

Speaker 5 (05:11):
You know, I'm always digging and just I love the
idea of being around people. And I just have a
lot of writing camps and some writers and producers come
by meet with people. I'm just always looking for music,
you know. But right now I'm actually working.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
On Usher and it's so good. Yeah, this is camp
Usher time, Camp Usher. That's right.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Usher's tiny desk performance is probably a pleasant, well needed
jolt in the right direction of reminding people. And I'm
also I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that The
Versus Comedy Hour also played a part.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
I missed it. I heard about it. Comedy show in history.

Speaker 6 (05:59):
Needles to say happy to hear there may be a
Chris and Usher versus that is the three four hours,
six hours, seven hours.

Speaker 5 (06:07):
I think sometimes people should set those out. That's my opinion.
I don't think that. I don't think they're for everybody.
I think because I don't know.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
The way that initially came to us, I wish it
would have stayed there, which was mainly about like two
producers working on beats at the same time, you know,
like the Buster and what Alchemists was the first one
or was it not the Buster Alchemist?

Speaker 2 (06:30):
The just Blaze, Swizz and Swizz and ten that was first. Yeah,
just Blaze and the Alchemists.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
I remember, if we're talking about verses, how versus started,
that was.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Well, I meant the the pre versus there was like
there was this thing where like just Blaze and Alchemist
would do this back and forth thing.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
You don't remember remember the yeah yeah right.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
But for me, I was kind of hoping that that
was more of the modus operandi where it wasn't about
you know, winner take all. But I think, you know,
once the pandemic started, people just want to entertainment, and
that seemed like a logical way to keep people entertained,
of course with the best aless talent, but eventually you're

(07:20):
gonna run out of a list talent, right, and then
what do you do.

Speaker 6 (07:24):
It was supposed to be the classics too, It was
supposed to be like up into you know, a certain
age kind of era range. I felt like too, and
they kind.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Of well, now, just think it's finding somebody that has
had ten to fifteen notable hits, right, which is that
that was going to run dry quickly, you.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (07:44):
And so that's funny because I don't always like to
bring light to it. But the truth is, we're hard
pressed to find artists with fifteen to twenty hits sacks.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
That's hard, it is, and those that have it aren't
with us anymore, right, And so the well is, I mean,
we're in we're in a place right now where it's
diminished returns, and you know, you gotta let people in
the door. Like lately, I will say, for my own group,
you know, we've been having this sort of conversation with

(08:18):
the powers that be at least the last five to
six years, like you have to let us in the door,
Like who the hell is left?

Speaker 2 (08:24):
You know what?

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I mean, so it's sort of like I'm not saying
that there was a begrudging all right, come in, you know,
like that sort of thing.

Speaker 6 (08:32):
But could battle, y'all. That's kind of hard. That's hard anyway,
that's a.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
We're not even built like that. Yeah, we we did.
We did get in, we did get an offer once.
I guess I could mention it now.

Speaker 6 (08:46):
Yeah, please tell everybody, because you're totally the.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Roots and Goodie Mob had a versus on the table
that we weren't able to do and really wow, But
you know, I mean that.

Speaker 5 (09:00):
Is I get it, though, I actually get it. As
odd as it is, I kind of get it.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well, I meant, but you guys don't have rivals.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
The truth is you don't have rivals because we don't
live in an erab for there's no black bands. First
of all, you're an only black band that and and forever,
so you you would actually have to go back and
battle like like cameos.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
I would have actually we talked to our last episode
was with Larry.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Amazing episode, by the way.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
No, I think probably if it were to come down
to that, we probably would do like d'angela did, which
is like have roots and a whole bunch of friends
come by and so fun. Anyway, Jo, we're wasting time here, La.
What was your very first musical memory.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Sh first musical memory ever, like.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Ever, your first thought of music? What like what it
might be?

Speaker 5 (09:57):
It might be a little hazy, but I think that
it was growing up Cincinnati, Ohio in the kitchen, small kitchen,
transistor radio in the window, and I think it was
It's My Party, and I cry if I want to. Yes,
I think it was that because for some reason I

(10:19):
remember that name, Quincy Jones. Don't know why, but like
I knew that name as a baby and it never left,
you know. I think it was that, or it was
something from Motown, right, like one of those dancing in
the streets.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
So I can't exactly. I was very young.

Speaker 5 (10:36):
But the one that the one that got me though,
the one that, like the life changing moment, was when
I heard give the drummer some and and cold sweat
James Brown. That moment, like that was that the world stopped.
So speaking of Cincinnati. Oh, by the way, uh case

(10:58):
our listeners don't know not many people know that Quincy
Jones produced Leslie Gores.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
It's My Party, that's his very first.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Very first hit as a as a pop producer. I
was going to say that I noticed, at least from
what Bootsie told me and just from observing that anyone
who's in proximity of King Records and their whole operation

(11:26):
had their life changed, either as someone that works inside
of King Records or the studio or the factory, or
someone like Bouotie Collins did hung in the alley way
and just hoped maybe one day we'll get used or
something like that.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
But because there is a five year of five to
ten year age discrepancy of you and Boucie's generation, right,
how did the James Brown Ohio effect? And plus this
also explains why Ohio is the funk capital of the
United States, because I mean, basically, King Records moved their

(12:02):
operations to Cincinnati, and basically at a time period in
which the ripple effects started happening even in other cities
like Funk just spread throughout Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, been all over.
So just as a ten year old, were you aware
of James Brown's presence in the city.

Speaker 5 (12:24):
I feel like I didn't know it officially, but I
felt the presence like The first Concenter ever went to
was a James Brown concert at the Cincinnati Convention Center,
and I hung outside and I met mace O Parker
and that that was a big deal for me, like
literally walking down the street outside the convention Center. And

(12:46):
also King Records was like a few doors down from
like my karate school as a kid, right, so I
would go to karate school, but when I wait on
the bus, right, take the bus home afterwards, and I
knew that that was King Records. So I never saw
a soul, but I would just stare at it. I
felt drawn to it. But then as I got like

(13:10):
slightly older, all the musicians in Cincinnati were all so
impacted by Bootsy and James Brown, but more Bootsy to
be honest, right, James was like the godfather of soul,
but Bootsy was our local superstar. So everything that Bootsy did,
we all, you know, aspired to do. Bootsy holds his

(13:32):
base this way, so you hold your base like Bootsy. Right,
Bootsy wears these kind of shoes or he has these
Everything was about whatever boots he did was the magic,
you know, and he was like a god to us.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
James Brown needed Booty more than Boots. He needed James
even though Bosi needed that guidance, right, Yeah, James Brown
needed that validation of you know, the next generation respecting him.
And this was the first song super bad, very first
song with sex Machine. Sex Machine was boosy, very first one. Yeah, okay,

(14:08):
you got it. There's there's an amazing all right. So
they did that song in two takes and there's a
there's a really amazing, rare dialogue for James, Like if
you listen to James's outtakes, normally it's sarcasm or I
mean not like mean spirited, but like if they mess.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Up or whatever, you'll you'll you'll you'll hear them.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Like chass Tis the engineer or something like that. But
when they do the second take of sex Machine, there's
like a forty five minute conversation of James just like
you hear him walking in the studio and tell them
like like being encouraging almost, like which is rare for
James Brown. But he's like obviously knows like these these

(14:50):
six seventeen eighteen year old kids are really really scared
right now, and he's just oh no, you got it, man,
like you can do it, and da da D d like,
which is oh wow, compared to the rest of what
James does, like on the other takes or whatnot. Like,
it's almost like he knew that he was dealing with children,
you know what I.

Speaker 5 (15:09):
Right, So, yeah's some sensitivity and he was, yeah, that's great.
So you're a drummer, sort no, you're you're a drummer.
I played the drums.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Well okay, well, first of all, your home situation. What
was your domestic home situation then, like, was your family
musically inclined?

Speaker 5 (15:36):
Your parents and my immediate family meaning my mother, my sisters.
We had a stepfather there. I never knew my father,
but we had a stepfather there. Occasionally he was there,
I'm being me, and he was there. But they played
music because they had poker games all the time, right,

(15:57):
So they always played music and it was always kind
of a The weekends were festive. And eventually I became.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Like the guy to play the records at a very.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
Young age, right, And I could play what I wanted
to play, you know, So I played slat in the
family stone, or I played war or I played you know,
whatever I wanted to listen to at the time. And
James Brown and you know, King Floyd.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
I remember that song.

Speaker 6 (16:24):
Was it a situation where you where they say, let
me see what you got the first record?

Speaker 5 (16:28):
No, it's just like the record player would stop and
they're all and they're all into the game. So I
just walk over and play what I wanted to play
and no one said anything.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Okay, So question for them for that music. And at
that time, would that be the equivalent of say, like
my nephew or my guy kids putting trap music on?
When say the adults in the room when he hears
something older, yeah, more Ray Charles.

Speaker 5 (16:53):
So like they love Bobby Womack. They just like, you know,
communications album. I think it was like they they like
they like things that felt more like the blues, more soul,
blues and and funk.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Was the music of the kids?

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, yeah for your people from Ohio.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, everybody's from Ohio. Yeah. So I have an uncle.
I had an uncle. He passed away, and he's a drummer.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
He is a jazz drummer, right, And I remember him
taking me to jam sessions with him when I was
very very young, and he set up a set of
drums in his uh in his apartment and he lived
in an apartment so you couldn't like, you couldn't really play.
So I was just playing with my fingers, but I
was playing James Brown.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
That's the best I could. And he was like, that's
not music. Oh man, that's not music. Yeah, that's music.

Speaker 5 (17:44):
Jazz guy, A jazz guy like that.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Okay, I got it.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
So I knew early on, like, okay, I see, I
see what the purists are thinking here, you know, versus.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
That was commercial. James Brown was commercial. And by the way,
your music, your real music college can ask your question.
So did Miles Davis? Now who ripped off? Who? But
h so what? Yo?

Speaker 1 (18:12):
So what Miles was first? Pee Wee pee Wee Ellis?

Speaker 5 (18:19):
Yes, yeah, I went on record to say that you
know all those and actually all those guys start alongside
your uncle, as in, I'm a jazz musician, but let
me just make some money on the side and play
this pop stuff that I don't care about, and then
I'll have a jazz career. And basically, Pee Wee Ellis

(18:39):
would basically steal jazz arrangements that he liked and incorporated
James Brown.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
So the whole cold sweat is essentially what.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Right? Right? Okay? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, And so that's that's that's weird for me because
like I know, and that's the thing where even today,
like just to fight my urge to not say something
derogatory to you know, another generation about their music. You know,
like for instance, like trap is about to be old

(19:21):
school and now drill is replacing that and right, and
so the temptation to not roll my eyes in the
air right is heavy, right, And I don't. I don't
want to be the guy that's just like performatively co
signing everything just to make.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Me look young and me look hip. Right.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
But you know, it's it's weird how the timeline of
music lasts, whereas something could be totally foreign to you
but seems like so innovative to the next generation.

Speaker 6 (19:54):
It's funny because they both share regional commonality too, because
a lot of New York is jazz musicians. Because my
dad is eighty something, he was a jazz musician. They
thought James Brown was country, just like how some New
Yorkers may think about trap and you know other music.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
That's right, Yeah, definitely that.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
How old were you when you felt that you really
developed your drumming skills.

Speaker 5 (20:20):
I was probably about fifteen, and I actually liked the story.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
I was in a choir class.

Speaker 5 (20:26):
Interestingly enough, I was the only one in the choir
class that didn't have to sing.

Speaker 6 (20:31):
Right.

Speaker 5 (20:32):
My music teacher was incredible. His name was Terry Brown,
and he was the choir teacher. And he had a
class that all the talented people in school were in
this class, all the singers, all the you know, the performers,
the guys that knew how to do the harmony. And
I was just drawn to the class and he liked me,

(20:53):
and he let me hang out in the class although
I wasn't in the choir and I ended up like.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Standing there for hours and hours day.

Speaker 5 (21:01):
But he had a group outside of school called the Mystics,
and it was a three man singing group. It was
Terry Brown, it was Gerald Brown, and I don't remember
the third guy's name. And one day I'm walking down
the hall. I'm probably I'm about fifteen years old. I
always carried my sticks in my pocket. I bet you

(21:21):
can relate to that, right, I just always kept them
with me, right, And he stopped me in the hall
and he said, hey, you have you have a set
of drums. I was like, yeah, what are you doing
this weekend? He said, I want you to audition. Bring
your drums to Mary Junior High School. I forgot the time,
and I want you to audition. So I walk in

(21:43):
and there's three other two other drummers. I'm sorry, there's
three total. There's two other drummers and there's one guy.
This guy he has he looked like he looked like
he was.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Going to kill it. He had a beautiful, big afro.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
He had a double bassed drum and the most beautiful
kit in the world. And I came in with like
this little ricky dick that's what we call it. I
don't know if you guys know I came in with.
I came in with the rinky dink kit, right, with
like one crash symbol, one ride symbol, and some my
hats one time, and this dude intimidated me. But when

(22:20):
he started playing, he wasn't good, and I was like, oh, and.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
We were playing.

Speaker 5 (22:28):
I remember the audition like it was yesterday, and we
were playing the o Jays.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
The OJ's had.

Speaker 5 (22:36):
Backstabbers nine hundred and ninety two arguments. Yeah right right,
that's that's Philly music, right, And but it was my turn,
Like I knew those songs cold, and so I aced
it and I got the gig.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
So that weekend.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
The following weekend, he took me to Chicago and we played,
uh the weekend gig at a place called the Skyway.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I was fifteen years old.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
So you were just allowed to leave the crib.

Speaker 5 (23:09):
My mom was okay with it, like I talked to her.
She trusted my teacher, and we drove to Chicago from Cincinnati,
did two shows, and came back and had about seventy
five dollars. Mom was okay with that real money. Yeah, okay,

(23:31):
that was pretty good money. That was seriously some good money.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
That was awesome money. And that was the beginning that
your daddy paid a mere He paid what was.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
My rate In nineteen eighty I made one hundred dollars
a night. So at the end of the week I
make six hundred dollars. Wow, I was rich for like
an elementary school kid. I want too many records. By
the time I became his band leader, you had me
somewhere in between. I think in the eighty three I
started at one hundred and fifty No, one hundred and

(24:03):
twenty five bucks a show, and then by the time
the very last show before I I, you know, the
roots went to live in London. I think what was
I making man? Maybe like three seventy five. So yeah,
but like you know, four days with my dad. You know,

(24:23):
that made me very popular lunchtime. At lunchtime, you buy
me a cheese steak a bit like.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
I love that? All right.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
So in Cincinnati, are there any other notable musicians or
songwriters or your fellow crew that we would know that
was coming up with you at the time.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Most of them you won't know.

Speaker 5 (24:51):
But the most important are the members of the group
Midnight Star, And that would be Reggie Callaway and Vincent
Callaway and Melvin Gentry and Bo Watson and Belinda Lips
London and yeah, and they were serious. They were very serious,
and they were the first ones. Oh and there's also

(25:12):
my friend Toughie who played he's a keyboard.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Player and he played with Zapp.

Speaker 5 (25:17):
Oh okay, right, and he sung he sung the song
all right, It's going to be all right? He sung
lead on that, right. So, so there was the Midnight
Star crew and Roger and the Human Body or Roger
and Novels or Zapp or however you might know them.
That was that crew and the and we always felt
that we felt the energy of Parliament funkadelic somehow, some way,

(25:41):
Like I remember going to Club Diplomat and it was
a bunch of musicians that looked like they might be
in Parliament right right, and they smelled like they might
be in Parliament, and.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
It was broken and they had a lot of groups.

Speaker 5 (25:59):
There was one called the Over the Hill Gang, but
they all it was a whole funk movement. I just
remember like it felt like they were on some tour
because it was so many of these guys and they
just kind of stopped at that club played that night,
so we were around them all.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
But the most.

Speaker 5 (26:13):
Important and meaningful were Midnight Star, and those are the
guys that we actually wrote with and they produced our
first album with my band and kind of taught us
the art of songwriting.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Walk us through the process of what it took for
a band to get local gigs. Are you localized as
in Cincinnati only, or do you have it so that
you can go out of state and.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Those types of things.

Speaker 5 (26:44):
We were Cincinnati for the for the most part, and
then Indianapolis, which was one hundred miles away, and it
was kind of a strange phenomenon when when we started,
when we were ready to play in the club, music
started to change.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
And this was probably like.

Speaker 5 (27:05):
Seventy seven something like that, seventy six seventy seven, and
Cincinnati was slightly more progressive than like Indianapolis, which was,
like I said, one hundred miles away and disco was
taking over. So there were no gigs in Cincinnati. I mean,
we played the clubs in Cincinnati, like there were like

(27:25):
four or five clubs that we would play weekends. But
somebody turned me on to a club called the Zodiac
Lounge in Indianapolis.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
This was life changing.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
I drive, I drive to Indianapolis with my band members,
go to this club, see the club owner, and they
hired us to play six nights a week. That didn't
happen in Cincinnati. So now we're doing six nights a week,
four shows per night, like four forty five minute sets
per night, six nights a week night.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
And you're doing one hundred miles each each.

Speaker 5 (27:58):
Well, we literally ended up moving there. We got an
apartment there. Okay, we got the gig, went back, got
our gear, came back, stayed in the hotel for a
couple of nights. Really bad cheap hotel. I forgot what
it was called. Maybe it was the Rego eight something
like that, right, or the Motel six You're in trouble, Yeah, yeah, right,

(28:21):
it was those. So we got a little apartment and
we ended up staying there for three or four, about
four years, playing clubs, and it went from one club
to the next and all over the city. And that's
where we really kind of learned.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
So what was it about that particular environment that was
a jackpop moment as opposed to, you know, the city
that we would expect right wide, open door of music
to come from.

Speaker 5 (28:51):
The difference was entertainment nightly, right, and so that meant
it was no longer a weekend thing.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
That it wasn't.

Speaker 5 (28:59):
It was which weekends could that could be hobby even
though we were serious, that could be deean hobby, whereas
six nights a week, that's your job.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Okay, So you're saying before seventy seven, a Monday night
party somewhere wasn't a thing. Thursday night party wasn't the thing.
Only Friday, Saturdays.

Speaker 5 (29:19):
And Sunday Saturday, Friday Saturday for the most part, right,
and then and then there might be an occasional wedding
fashion show something like that.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
But but for the clubs were only weekends. Uh.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
And we went to Indianapolis and it was like it's
like seven or eight clubs that had entertainment every night
and all the bands were competing. And that's when I
met some That's when I realized that there was a
different caliber of musicians. Like in Cincinnati, everybody was funk.
We were all funk musicians and some people could you know,

(29:55):
maybe jazz influenced, maybe a little blues influence, but we
were all funk. When I went to Indianapolis, which is
where Babyface is from, and Reggie Griffin you might know
Reggie Griffin and Rayferl Griffin his brother who's like this
incredible fusion drummer, right, and it was just a it
was an entire community of really really gifted musicians. I

(30:17):
realized then that I wasn't long for drumming, right. They
put us to shame. It was insane.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
The thing is, I would think that if you're there
for the specific duty or task to make people dance
intricate arrangements, would that matter. I mean, unless you're doing
unless you're trying to do like get Away by Earthwood
and fire or something, I mean, right, and also what's
the rehearsal regiment like, and are you guys able to

(30:49):
nail every song that comes down the path?

Speaker 5 (30:52):
It's cover songs, right, obviously it's all cover songs, so
you know, you know, you learn all the Rick James
songs or whatever is how you know. And we would
do that in the daytime in the basement, you know,
or or at the club, you know, when we lived
in the apartment, we would do it at the club
during the day. Eventually we got a small house and

(31:13):
we had a basement that we could rehearse in and
try to record. But yeah, it was still all you're right,
it was about dancing. But we have four sets, so
the first set you could do whatever you wanted to
do because the club wasn't crowded yet, so that's when
you could do experimental stuff and try out a new
song that you may have written or or pretend to

(31:35):
be returned to forever.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I was gonna say, you're gonna say return to ever
in like five seconds?

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, you know, right, I knew you. I just knew it.
We played at it, you know, we never play.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
All right, explain one thing though, because I think for
every musician they're either Team Weather Report or Team Turned
to Forever.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Now that's great in my real life.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
In my real life, I've okay, So amongst a certain
cowbird musician friends I have, I've I've gone on record
to say that, you know, I feel like a bad
Philadelphia because I'm not exactly on the Stanley Clark bandwagon

(32:25):
as I.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Should be right as in Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Like the song of his I love the Most is
so on Him, which is the heaven sent joint with
Howard Hewitt. But what was it about return to Because
I was always Team weather Report? But what was it
about return to Forever that had you guys' attention? Because
literally everyone your age, anyone born the latter half of

(32:49):
the fifties beginning of the sixties, there's a love for
return to Forever that you know. And no, no, no,
I'm not even asking as adversarial, because yes, Lenny White,
I love Chick Carea. But I just never had someone
explain to me what was it about return to Forever?

Speaker 2 (33:08):
So it was first it was Chick Corea.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
It really was chick that that led that because the
way he composed it felt like obviously it was jazz fusion,
but there was this classical element.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
And it was this classical element and.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
The way that they would play, the way that they
would like play riffs together, you know, like everybody sort
of playing the same riff. You know, nobody else played
like that like uh. And they found a way to
do that and be and groove and be in the groove.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
And I was I like Stanley Clark, but not like
Jacko Pastory. It's like not even close for me personally,
I'm not gonna get in trouble for this, but I'm
I'm team weather Reporting. That conversation like easy, easily and
Joe Zawana was way more soulful than like than Chick Korea.
So I mean he did mercy, mercy, mercy for canniball.

(34:03):
I mean, this boy, this man is no joke. So
I'm really probably a Weather Report guy, except that Lenny White,
you know, was just so bad man.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
You know. But if I had to pick, I couldn't take.
I couldn't. I'm glad I don't have to.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
You said you mentioned having a band, but what was
the band's name.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
My band was called Essence.

Speaker 5 (34:27):
My band was called Pure Essence at first, and and
pure essence was it was some kind of take on Stylistically,
it was somewhere between sliding the family Stone, earth Wind
and Fire with the love of fusion music, not the ability,

(34:48):
but the.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Love that was that was a great way to smooth
it out.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
All right.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
So let's let's move forward to your your in Indianapolis
now or you're in Indiana right. How did you How
did you meet Babyface?

Speaker 5 (35:11):
So he had a band. He was in a band
called Manchild. Yeah, and they were really good and they
were like stars.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Man.

Speaker 5 (35:19):
Everybody in the group was like looked like they was
six foot and and and weighed one hundred and fifty pounds.
They looked like just like everybody in the band looked
like Mick Jagger. I mean, there's a fox start. Look
at these guys. Man and Kenny was in the band.
It's a guitar player. I didn't meet them when we
when we were in I didn't meet him when we

(35:42):
had the band Essence, my first band. I literally met
him after we started the group the deal, right, because
a quick story was we sort of ran my band
Essence kind of ran out of gas. We got became complacent,
we didn't renew we didn't refresh, and eventually we kind
of got kicked off the circuit. And this club owner,

(36:06):
I got to tell you this. This club owner tell
me his name is Walt Manning. He owns a club
called the Night Flight. The night Flight is the hippies
club in Indianapolis. On one level it's a DJ and
on the lower level live band. And the deal was,
if you can get people to come from the disco downstairs,

(36:28):
that's how you make your money. To give us a
small advance. But we would get the door and it'd
be like a thousand people upstairs and they play off
the wall. They were playing down the summers. They were
playing like disco. It was in full full till and
we were downstairs and like fifteen people might come down.

(36:50):
Half of them would like the people that we knew.
And we had a couple of weeks off. I went
to the club and asked the club owner, walked if
I could get in it, if I can get one
hundred dollars advance for my band so I could like
pay the rent and give my guy some food. And
he says, there ain't gonna be no advance because you're fired.

(37:10):
And let me tell you why you fired. You fired
because you guys suck your drop. You're boring. No one
comes downstairs. You need to read news, you need to
rip off a sleeve or die your hair or do something,
because all of this, this socially conscious thing you're doing
is completely boring. You're out of step with the times.
And I mean, he just read me man.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Wow. I was like, WHOA, what year was this?

Speaker 5 (37:34):
This would have been seventy nine, eighties something like that.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Oh, I'm like whoa.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
And y'all were still hanging on to like got to
give it up, like songs from like nineteen seventy six.

Speaker 5 (37:47):
Yeah We're still, Yeah, we're there, and and early Earth
Winning Fire like like the wrong Earth Winning Fire songs,
you know.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
And this guy just read man.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
And then he goes into cash red aster, and he
pulls one hundred dollar bill out and he throws it
on the counter. He says, I'm gonna give you one
hundred dollar bill, but I never want to see you again.
And you don't owe me the hundred but you owe
it to somebody, so pay it forward and get the hell.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Out of here. And fired us. He was drunk and
he was an alcoholic, right.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Oh, I was going to say, that's the best firing
I ever heard. I need to use that shit.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, yeah, he gave me.

Speaker 5 (38:25):
So I got the hundred dollars now and I go
back and I think about what the man is saying,
and I immediately knew he was right. I immediately knew
that we had somewhere slipped, and I was like, Okay,
so I need to bust this thing up and start
all over. And that's how we started the deal, right

(38:45):
was So my bass player, his name is Ko, He's
my best friend. Also, we let everybody else go. We said,
you know, Ko, Ko plays on all the records, Face
and Whitney and Bobby and all that shit. But he's
really incredible, really really talented. So he and I started

(39:07):
the band. We first let everybody go, say, guys, we're
going to end the band and it's just not working.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
It's run its course.

Speaker 5 (39:15):
So we went back to our hometown of Cincinnati, and
he and I just sett in either his mom's house
or my mom's house, and we just kind of thought about, like,
who are the most talented kids that we went to
school with that also had the presence of a star.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Like we started thinking about it differently.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
We started thinking about it beyond like who could be
beyond talent? But that combination of talent and start them,
that's when that really sort of first came into my consciousness.
And so we picked a couple of guys that we
thought were really good and we started the band, the Deal.
We went back to Indianapolis. Well, we sort of getting

(39:53):
kicked off at the circuit and I went to the
club owner. I said, just give us a week, give
us one week in the club, and I'll show you
because they lost confidence in us. And that week, oh,
I left something important out. The deal was a Prince
copy band.

Speaker 6 (40:12):
A copy band, not a cover, but just a copy.

Speaker 5 (40:17):
Stylistically like, we wanted to look like them, we wanted
to play like them. We did some of their songs,
we did some of the time, some of the Prince right,
and we were completely like Minneapolis kids all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Right, So can I ask is you know? And it's
rare for me to ask someone who's actually of the
age at the.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Time it's happening.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
But when he came out like was it totally a
this guy is just of a different ilk than everyone else.

Speaker 5 (40:49):
It was so obvious, Like I didn't even know whether
this records or hits or not. I didn't really look
at charts and all this stuff, right, but it was
so obvious that it was him and I was, and
also so Bootsy co signed it. I was looking at
black Beat magazine. I don't know, I forgot to know that.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Young he.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
Said.

Speaker 5 (41:16):
Bootsy said Prince is next. He said it in a magazine,
and I was like, damn. I kind of thought so.
But when he said it, that was like the validation, right,
and there was no there was no turning back.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Prince was the Prince was the king.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
I grew up an environment where he was taboo and
you weren't not even you weren't allowed to. Every adult
I knew hated Prince, right, So that just made it
even more like, all right, well let me see what
they're talking about. But I've just never been in an
environment with someone who is an adult or of the

(41:52):
age like teld the story of them seeing it and
being like, yo, I like this.

Speaker 6 (41:58):
That's because you come from older music too, Because my
mother loves fucking Prince.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
As soon as he popped out, Oh my mom told
me don't play that in her house.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Really, everyone thought Prince was the devil yo.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
Yeah, she's a don't play them because he had a
song called Ancestors Everything is said to be and she's like,
you will not play that in my house.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Time out you, all right?

Speaker 1 (42:18):
So when Dirty Mind comes out, Now here's the weird thing.
I mean, when four You came out, you know, he
was in right on magazine and all that stuff, and
I have a sister who's slightly older than me, so
her and her high school girlfriends were bored. And then
you know, when the second Galm came out with I
Want to Be a Lover and all that stuff, they
were bored. Now the thing is when Dirty Mind came out,

(42:41):
especially in Philadelphia, I swear to you maybe I heard
Uptown once on the radio, right and besides right on magazine,
I would have never known what Dirty Mind was. So
it's almost as if Dirty Mind never came out, and
we went right to the time and controversy and I

(43:02):
didn't even catch I didn't catch up on Dirty Mind
until after Purple Rain, when then it was like, all right,
you got to be completest and get everything. But Philly
radio was not playing anything off of Dirty Mind. And
I think by then, like my sisters love of that type.
You know, it just sort of waned a little bit. So,

(43:22):
as far as I knew, he just disappeared all of
nineteen eighty. Wow, So you're saying that when Dirty Mind
came out in real time, Oh my god, it was
guys got it and totally understood and got.

Speaker 5 (43:35):
It everything about it, the way that they dressed everything,
they talked about, party up and had and all these
songs that we were deep, deep deep into prints, like
deep into it and just thought he was the greatest
thing ever.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Like in my mind, it was a flop and nobody
was with it, right. He quickly crazy recovered, So we didn't.
You know, what's crazy is.

Speaker 5 (43:58):
That at that time we were so into Prince that
we didn't judge whether something was a success or not
because we were just so blown away by his First
of all, he was playing everything and and and doing
all that was that was, as far as I knew,
that was unusual. And he was on this sort of

(44:19):
punk thing, right, and that was he was.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
He was borrowing from new.

Speaker 5 (44:24):
Wave and and incorporating it into this sort of funk thing.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
He was just an original. It felt like an original
to me. Was he? So?

Speaker 5 (44:35):
Was it done in a way because I also know that,
you know, Rick kind of had a missed with or
a miss with the Guard of Love record, which I mean,
I don't know if Big Time really could have saved
that record, but he was really Rick James was trying
to like really make a statement like here's my my
star moment and.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Really made a pop album. Right.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
And what's weird is I can't wait to get lee
Roy Burgess on the show because if you listen to
the intro of Big Time, you can clearly hear that edit,
like I know, the Leleroy Burgess part of Big Time
versus Rick's portion, which is basically I see Leroy Burgess
adding that it's like an eight bar piano intro that's

(45:17):
clearly not Rick James, right, and then they slice splice
the rest of the song to it. But I don't
know for me, was was Rick?

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Not?

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Like in your mind, what was Rick James? Because he
too was trying to establish pump punk and all that stuff.

Speaker 5 (45:37):
Rick was a hit maker, right, Rick had the hits,
you know, Mary Jane and you and I and he
had the hits, but he didn't know to start him
to us, right, He was actually a hit maker before
Prince was right, but we didn't focus on him.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
In Cincinnati, Indianapolis, the local bands all played.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Rick James songs everybody.

Speaker 5 (46:02):
Some people played them better than others, but that was
in every local band in their set.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
But you didn't look at it as innovative.

Speaker 5 (46:11):
As I think back on it, it was, But at
that moment I didn't think so. I thought it was
just another guy making hits. I just didn't I've never
focused on it. It was years later that I looked
back on it and said, wait a minute, this guy's insane, right,
you know, this guy wrote square biz like. This guy's

(46:32):
like insanely talented. Didn't really know it at the time.
This didn't quite catch it because there was something about
Prince that just appealed to us more. And you know
what I think it was like in Cincinnati, we heard
black music, but we also listened to rock, right, We
listened to a lot of rock music on the radio,
like and so I think that that presence of punk

(46:56):
rock and that presence of rock and that presence of
funk that blend Prince. Prince kind of did all of
that as one artist. Uh So, something about that that
really appealed to us.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Wait, and now now I have to ask your audiences
were they receptive to it as well? Because this is
also Middle America, it's not exactly New York. How are
they adapting to.

Speaker 6 (47:26):
Because y'all had the eyeliner too, right, I thought, baby, say,
y'all committed.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Like, No, we went all the way. I'll tell you
we went all the way. His word glam not glam breed.
That we were breathed.

Speaker 5 (47:37):
You a breed, which meant the new, the new breed,
the new breed. Right we were We were our generations
version of whatever hip hop might have represented. Like we were,
but except you had to be really bold and daring
and audacious and brave to pull it off, because you
know you're going to be criticized by everybody on a

(47:59):
musician level, on a human level. Right, people are gonna
question your sexuality everything. Right, You're putting a lot at
risk here to be a part of the movement. So
we went all the way. Eyeliner, the Jerry Curl, everything,
you know, the makeup. We we went crazy with it.
But but you know what's crazy is we didn't We

(48:23):
didn't even audition for our record label.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
We never met our record label We.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
Literally sent a photograph and a demo of two songs,
Body Talk, three songs Body Talk, a song called just
My Luck their Face wrote, and a song called I Surrender.
We literally sent three songs and a photograph and we
got signed to dig Griffy.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
No, we just we gave it to a man.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
We had a manager, we shared a manager with Midnight
Star's name was Pablo Davis.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
And he went to turn In.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
He went to Solar to turn in and no parking
on the dance floor, which was nice, big album, and
so we caught it. We caught a tail wind because
in that meeting he said, Okay, I also have this
man at a Cincinnati called the Deal and he shows
them the photo, plays them the demo and we got
a record deal.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Do you remember what was on the demo talk just
my Luck?

Speaker 1 (49:23):
And so the body Talk that is the demo? Is
that the version we know? Or did you guys?

Speaker 2 (49:31):
The recorded version is a little bit better.

Speaker 5 (49:35):
It's a little bit better, like uh yeah, because you'd
appreciate this. The demo was all the Oberheim drum machine,
right and then not that one, No, the first that
was one called the d X, the d M d
M X yes, right, okay, and like it was looked

(49:55):
like an Oberheim keyboard, and so that the the demo
version was purely that the the recording had like real
high hats and real crash.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
That's the only difference. But it made it sound. It
sounded better. Damn. I would like to hear that one,
you know what I mean, Like you know that the
d MS was the real heart was like it's a
whole different.

Speaker 5 (50:21):
Sound, right, and and and it moved differently.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
You know, so you kind of skipped apart. Okay, how
did that version of the deal wind up being that
version of the deal with all the members that we know?

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Because baby yeah, I was trying to get back to
how I met face. So so that band is.

Speaker 5 (50:41):
Playing the clubs and you know, unlike my first band,
pure essence, Uh, the deal is packing the man, people
are coming like this whole edge that we had and
this androgyny that we seemed to have, and this music was,
uh it was a sensation, a little bit a local sensation.

(51:03):
And we went from having fifteen people in the room
to like one hundred people and one hundred and ten
hundred and fifteen hundred and twenty like and we start
having lines around.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
It was incredible that we had. We were a local success.

Speaker 5 (51:15):
If that had been the Internet, we would have been trending,
like you know, we had a little buzz. So one
night I've met face Kenny at the time, and he
came to watch our band and his manager introduced me
to him. All I remember is us looking at each
other saying hi. And then fast forward a few months later,

(51:37):
a keyboard player friend of mine called and said, hey, man,
Kenny Edmans wants to join your band.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
And I said, Nah, he's not breed enough. Wow.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
I was like, nah, he ain't got the thing, you know,
he's like regular, he's normal, you know, you know. No,
he didn't have and so I literally passed on it.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
And then.

Speaker 5 (52:07):
Midnight Star I hired their keyboard player, Bo Watson. I
didn't hire, I asked him to come in and play
a session for us because somebody paid for a session
for the deal to record and I needed a keyboard player.
So I called Bo Watson, who had known from the
Indianapolis music circuit, and Bow came over and he listened

(52:28):
and he played on the record with us, and he
went back and told everybody in his bad like these
guys are onto something. So the next day the manager comes,
Reggie Callaway, everybody comes and hears us, and they say, well,
we love what you guys are doing. We want to
sign you. We want to sign you to our company
called mid Star Productions. I was like, Okay, this sounds good,

(52:49):
this seems this is a little bit better than playing
at the club. Started liking this, so I go to
the studio one night to visit them. They were recording,
and there's this guy. It's dark, he's in the booth
and I can't see the guy, but he's singing this
song called play another slow jam, this time make it Sweet,
and he's singing it. I'm like, who is this boy

(53:11):
with this voice? Just like this tender voice, like sounded
so good. He comes out of the booth as Kenny Edmunds,
except he has got a trench coat, he's got the
Jerry curR.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
I made his breath. He's completely breathed, and I'm like, Yo.

Speaker 5 (53:28):
This is the dude I just said he couldn't joined
the band, and I mean he now he is.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
He suited up.

Speaker 5 (53:36):
And I'm like, and the most gifted of anybody I've
ever met. I never met anybody that gifted right, that
could really like write a song and make a demo
and do all the parts and sing in the background,
and and the lyrics.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Were like like really poetry.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
I know.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Let anybody like him was a raincoat and some underwear and.

Speaker 5 (53:59):
Jerry girl, Yes I had glasses.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
You know.

Speaker 5 (54:08):
That was it, man, And that's how we that's how
that version of the band. So I asked him to
join the band, and uh, he said, what will I do?
I said, well, I'd like you to be the guitar player,
keyboard player and and be a writer and like co produced,
but you can't sing because we have to lead singers.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
And he was like okay. So we went.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
We went, made all our demos, got a recording contract
with Solo Records, and uh, he didn't sing on the
first album.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Wow, that changed.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
That was a flex?

Speaker 6 (54:43):
Was that you said that? When he said okay, you know,
in the back of his mind was like, you'll be back.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
He was already set on doing a solo album.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
Honestly, even though he was in our band, he was
already in his mind, I'm going to be a solo artist.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
All right.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
So look, I mean we've had everyone on the show,
including non Solar signees. One of y'all are going to
tell me a real damn story about grif.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
All right, man, but I got you. Ask the ques,
come on, talk to me. Talk What was what was outside?
We outside?

Speaker 1 (55:26):
First of all, you're you're you were in Indiana.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
You're eventually gonna have to go to Los Angeles. Talk
about the move to that.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
But this is the thing, is I keep hearing like
these nearest sub night stories of don't mess with Dick Griffy.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
What was Dick Griffy like?

Speaker 5 (55:47):
So the first time I met him, my first phone
call after we put our record out, put out Body
Talk and it's starting to climb the charts, and he
calls our house. I never met the man, he said,
whoever answer, He says, let me speak to Antonio. That's
how he talked. By the way, I can imitate him

(56:08):
really good. So I pick up the phone. Antonio, Dick Griffy,
the record that Body Talk, the records a smash, right,
and I just wanted to welcome you to the label.
Everything was like kind of right.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
So I went.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
So after that, fast forward, I go to LA and
I meet him and I go into his office with
Reggie Callaway because we just mixed our album, went to
turn it in and I meet him and him but
I was asided.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I was just like the kid in the band.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
It was Reggie Callaway and Dick Griffy's meeting, and Dick
said he wanted certain things to happen on the record,
and Reggie was like, no, we're not doing that.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
So I immediately saw you.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Give me an idea of what his idea of what?

Speaker 2 (56:56):
What did he want? I don't even remember what he wanted, like,
I don't remember, but he.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Was giving creative advice.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Yeah, creative advice. It was really creative, very like he's yes,
ok he was, but more than in that CEO way
of that's a hit, that's not a hit.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
What do you say, like the vocals it too loud,
or I don't like those drums, or.

Speaker 5 (57:19):
More like this is a hit versus or you should
try this producer, or you should try this songwriter, or
you know, putting Leon Silvers with Chalamar or like that
kind of stuff. Okay, Yeah, he was good. He was
really good. So so my first real encounter, my first

(57:43):
real encounter was first album comes out, second album. It's
time to make the second album, and we make it.
We make the album in Cincinnati, in Columbus, Ohio or
the studio, and we sent demos into Dick Griffy and
he liked some stuff, some stuff. He questioned. He had

(58:04):
a particular fondness for Kenny because Kenny would sing on
demos and he was like, he thought he was really incredible.
So the first, my first encounter was this song called
Sweet November that Babyface did for the deal, right, and how.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
M did that first?

Speaker 5 (58:22):
I forgot yeah, yeah, okay, And so it's on the
demo and Dick Griffy hears it. He says, who is
that singing Sweet November? I said, that's Kenny. I want
that on the album. I said, well, we had a problem.
I say, what's the problem. But the problem is that
we made a deal when we started the group that

(58:45):
our two lead singers, Carlos and d would do all
the vocals on the album. That's Kenny singing. And he
was like, well, that's a stupid deal. And you put
that song on the record or ain't gonna be no record?

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Oh? I got it, Kenny, your songs on the album?
You said, Tweet November maybe the album? Right. So that
was my first sort of encounter.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
How are you taking the unofficial I guess you're now
the figurehead, the father of the group.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Yeah, I kind of always was. I don't know. It
was my idea to go get everybody.

Speaker 5 (59:27):
I put it all on my shoulders and said, you know,
if you guys rock with me, I'll do my best
to take care of you.

Speaker 6 (59:34):
Ya.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
It seems like you from as you when you're hearing
this about you now, it makes sense that you were
the one that kind of could bridge the gap between
the business and the creative, Like you knew how to
talk to both sides.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
I tried to.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
Yeah, yeah, because I had to negotiate with club owners right,
you know, for pay and when they wanted to deduct expenses,
and you know, I had to.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
I had to do the tough guy work. But and
they trusted me.

Speaker 5 (01:00:02):
You know, all of us went to high school together,
by the way, except for Babyface was in Indianapolis. But
the rest of the band we all went to high
school together. We were all in that choir class with
mister Brown and you know, so we were all really
like good friends and grew up together in the same neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
So there was a trust factor there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Since you're talking about the The Material Things album.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Yeah, you know that album. I'm so impressed with you.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
Man, I just got to tell you, I never met
anybody with all of us. Yeah, but my my, my
question about Material Things is, and I always I don't
know why it is, but the the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Tom tom programming.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I never heard a song in which the kick drum
and the tom toms had to compete with the each
other mix white, So I always wanted to know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
All that stuff, right, who gets the final word on
a final mix? Because?

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Okay, when I was younger, material things irked me because
I was like, Yo, those tom toms are way too
loud for this song. As I got used to hearing
it in my older age, I was like, all right, well,
you know, I'm I can see being innovative, but like,
who who back for those records? Was the Callaway brothers

(01:01:34):
that were leaning on the production? Was it were you
guys allowed a word in edgewise?

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Like? Just as far as structuring the albums full.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
Disclosure, The first album, called Street Beat, was completely produced
by Reggie Calloway and the songs were co written by
the members of Our band and members of Midnight Star. Okay,
when it was time to make the second album, Material Things,
we had fallen out and Callaway Us and Midnight Start.

(01:02:05):
We kind of falling out and Reggie didn't want to
produce the second album.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
So Dick Griffy said you produce it. So it was
on me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
I'm like, so me, Reggie didn't want to produce it,
or you guys didn't want Reggie to produce it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:18):
We wanted Reggie, but Reggie didn't want to do it,
and I didn't know why. I thought there was some
It probably had something to do with money. Something He
never said to me, like I don't want to produce
your record, but it felt business y.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
Did he have that option? Again?

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Y'all still tell me nice guys stories about Dick Griffy,
But does Reggie Callaway have an option to mess up
the money by saying.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
You know what, I'm not going to produce the second album?

Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
Yeah, because he and Dick Griffy visited my apartment in
Cincinnati and we played them demos that we worked on,
and they collectively decided which songs we should record.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
So he Dick gave him a past.

Speaker 5 (01:03:00):
Yeah, he let him. He let him sit it out.
So Kenny and I like co produced together. So all
those decisions loud ass Tom songs too fast or that's
all me and Kenny producing for the very first time
in our lives and having following a hit record that

(01:03:21):
Reggie produced. Now it's on us, and it was it
was a complete stiff. Wow, it was a complete stiff.

Speaker 6 (01:03:31):
That's a good lesson for class.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
So that's that's weird. It's weird for me, all right.
So here this is what I'm just learning.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
And you know, I mean, I guess I alluded to
the stuff I'm working on past Summer's Soul, but currently
having made an official announcement, because you know, I will
say that there was a popular dance show of the

(01:03:58):
seventies and maybe other decades of which I'm learning that
I'm learning that the host of said dance show has
relationships with different CEOs and no matter what the state

(01:04:22):
of the record is on the outside world, because there's
songs that was played on this show so many times
that I would instantly thought, oh, that's a hit one
of them, which being material things like all of nineteen
eighty four is season Like if you get four spots
on the most important dance portion of that show, then

(01:04:46):
to me, that was like, oh, you have a bona
fide hit. And it was only later that I figured
out that material things didn't get the same push that
body talk in.

Speaker 5 (01:05:00):
You know exactly. It simply wasn't good. It wasn't good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Were you guys scared and were you afraid of getting dropped?

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
No?

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
I didn't even think about it. You know, by the way,
I've been dropped and fired a lot of times. I
never think about it, right, So.

Speaker 6 (01:05:23):
This wasn't the first time.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
I just got fired from.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
I just got fired from the Knife Flight, right, So yeah,
I'm meaning to it.

Speaker 6 (01:05:31):
You know, I love it. You ain't nobody till you
get fired from somewhere, that's what you say.

Speaker 5 (01:05:36):
But no, no, we didn't think about getting dropped. All
I thought about was damn this record. Just I couldn't
get it right, man, I couldn't get it right. I
just couldn't get it right. I tried so many times,
you know, because the studio, I mean studio wasn't cheap,
but we had it on lock so we could go
in and mix it, press and acetate.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Go to the club. Played at the club.

Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
It didn't sound right, Well, go back and try to
a couple of days and we tried everything, and then
when we thought we had it right and we turned
it in, the label apparently agreed because they made it
the single and it just didn't work, and it was
just embarrassing more than anything. But it also put a
fire in all of us, and I would say particularly

(01:06:21):
myself and Kenny. It really put a fire into us
that and we're competitive people, so we were like, we
can't let Midnight Start be responsible for our success and
then when.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
We get the shot, we blow it right. Let's get
to work.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, I know you don't like
this when this happens, but you know we got more
in store for you to stay tuned for two more
episodes of this epic Question of Supreme with the Great
La Reid. While you ad it, feel free to check
out our other LS episode with Babyface as well.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
All Right, see y'all next time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
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