QLS Classic: LA Reid Part 2

In Part 2 of this QLS Classic of LA Reid's comprehensive interview with Questlove Supreme, he recalls working with The Whispers, Whitney Houston, and Michael Jackson.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up?

Speaker 2 (00:06):
This is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. Anybody who knows
this podcast is well aware that our interviews can last
for hours, so often we split them into two parts.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
It also gives listeners.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
A suspenseful reason to come back next week or check
their podcast feed for more episodes. Back in twenty twenty two,
we sat down with la Reid for what became a
rare three part interview. In part two of La Read's
comprehensive interview at Questlove Supreme, he recalls working with the Whispers,
Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson. Please rate, like, and subscribe

(00:36):
to this on your podcast feeds, check back for new episodes,
and follow our new YouTube page at QLs.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
This is a question that I tried to asking Jimmy
jam and I still wasn't satisfied with the answer. Now,
I owned Eyes of a Stranger. I mean, I've owned
all your records. But when Eyes of a Stranger came out,
and I always have this question, I will ask you.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I will ask that s O s Ben.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
I will ask boys to men, how bold do you
have to be in order to start your first three
songs on the album with ballads, especially in this mind
state where you're like, we got to grab them by
the collar right in your mind, you were like, two

(01:25):
Occasions is so damn tef line, we better open with
this joint, Like, are you guys not thinking?

Speaker 5 (01:31):
I gotta look at the track list and if the.

Speaker 6 (01:33):
First record the first records, let.

Speaker 5 (01:38):
Me see some eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
With my eye, like literally.

Speaker 6 (01:44):
And they back to back, that's interesting me.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
And the thing is the way the way that I
see records and building records and like the drama and
the up and like two Occasions to me was always
either the fourth song on side a wow, the second
song on side to y'all. To me, it's almost like
opening thriller with human Nature.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
I can't believe. I just this doesn't make sense to.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
Me, I think in terms of albums, and this also
explains why you have way more hits than I do.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
Right, No, I think that's a reseequence.

Speaker 7 (02:22):
Man, Okay, you have you have the actual vinyl or
cassette or something, because not there, I don't expect you
to have it there.

Speaker 5 (02:30):
But I'm saying I can't believe that.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
I thought can You Dance?

Speaker 5 (02:35):
Was the first song on the album.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Hang on second, I'm now checking on the street.

Speaker 8 (02:41):
Well on Apple Music it is yeah, you' all right,
it's one and two and can you dance?

Speaker 6 (02:47):
This is five?

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, that's what came. Okay, it's the record and.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Well, I mean obviously worked because I think when anyone
thinks of the deal, it two occasions and at that
it's right a rush. All right, all right, so this
is that wasn't even our first single.

Speaker 6 (03:07):
Hold up, what was what was the person? Two occasions?

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Was?

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Damn sure? It was to shoot him up?

Speaker 5 (03:12):
No, no, hold I'm gonna tell you. Okay, where's that album?

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Where's that album? Is a stranger? Okay? Why he's looking
for it?

Speaker 1 (03:19):
This reminds me, shit, man, you're right again.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Hold up now I'm on discouds looking at it. It's
straight up.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah, well this is But listen, and this really brings
about full circle because when I don't know if you
remember this conversation, like you the day that Things Fall
Apart came out February twenty third, nineteen ninety nine. The
next day I spoke to you because you were telling

(03:46):
me about like you know, you you were on the
radio and all that stuff and you gave me a
message from your mom, and your mom said, why would
they bury that Erica Badu's song at the end of
Side too, Wow, Yes, why do we have to sit
through that and time album to get to it?

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Which was kind of like my plans, like, okay.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Because that's the same I heard that already. Yah, y'all
heard that one.

Speaker 6 (04:12):
Yeah, making them listening to it Okay.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
Y'all would have never gotten through the rest of the
record to see who we were before we got you.

Speaker 6 (04:19):
But you did the opposite of what LA did.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Wow. I know, but that's that's why he's LA.

Speaker 5 (04:27):
Stop now maybe kind of.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Open when you got.

Speaker 5 (04:34):
I swear I don't remember. I really don't remember.

Speaker 7 (04:36):
But the only logic that I can come up with
is put the hits up front.

Speaker 5 (04:44):
That's the only thing I can think of, is put
the hits up front.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Right.

Speaker 7 (04:47):
But we put out Yeah, we put out can You Dance?
And we thought we kind of gotten it.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Right, Okay, we got it right? Now?

Speaker 5 (04:53):
Now we got it.

Speaker 7 (04:54):
This is better than this is better than material things. Sonically,
it's better. Got a right engineer, Tom's not over shadowing everything,
you know, And it didn't work at all. We got nowhere,
and then Dick Griffy came. And this is what Dick
stepped in. He said, he says, comes to the studio,

(05:15):
play me all the records. He's mean about it too,
like that's like that I played me all the records,
like sick of you, you know, because because by the way,
I forgot to tell you I picked another stiff, not
a stiff, but Babyfaces first solo album was called Lovers
and I Love You, and I know I picked you

(05:37):
make Me Feel Brand New to cover that's the same.
And when that came out before I Love You Baby yeah, yeah,
and I remember that and it was cute, but that
was me thinking that that I didn't know, and Dick
Griffy was like you just like you just think you
know everything, don't you. I mean, that's how we talked
to me, Like let me tell you them. This is

(05:59):
my record company and this is my studio and we're
doing that no more.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
So he picked the hits, all the wrong songs I picked.

Speaker 7 (06:10):
I picked You Made Me Feel brand New for Babyface,
and I picked can We Talk for the Deal?

Speaker 5 (06:15):
Both Wrong comes Back and picks two Occasions and shoot
him Up movie movies. He gave me that song. Wow,
he gave me the song another guy.

Speaker 7 (06:27):
It's the only time my band ever did a song
that we didn't write or co write. He gave me
that song and said, this might be good for you.
So Keny and I went and we produced it. But
did you like his song? I did like it. I
liked it, liked it, but my band hated it.

Speaker 6 (06:41):
Wait, which, what are we talking about? Movies?

Speaker 5 (06:43):
Like the cover Shoot Them Up Movie?

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Wait?

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Who did the cover?

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Did the cover Bobie Dick from on No Limit Records?
He he covered Shoot Him Up Movies? And like nine Yeah,
the movie love wanted to be.

Speaker 7 (07:01):
Cleared by the way, we only did We did it
because Dick wouldn't make He wouldn't let us have music videos.

Speaker 5 (07:07):
He said we weren't pretty enough. So really, so I figured.

Speaker 7 (07:10):
If I due to occasion, I mean, I'm not too occasional,
we do shoot them Up movies, which is a song
he gave us.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
Maybe we might get.

Speaker 6 (07:18):
A music video.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Y'all have not done music videos.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
We don't have no music videos.

Speaker 7 (07:24):
Yeah, but everybody else on the list, Charlama had the
music videos and.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
The weirdest music videos of all time, right, but we
don't care videos.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
We're so their videos were so off kilter, man.

Speaker 6 (07:37):
But y'all are so pretty. That's so odd.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
All right, So here's the deal.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
I'm gonna ask you a question as a CEO about
your artist self and hopefully because I think you're one
of the first major CEOs we had on the show
and I needed explained to me, like I'm a twelve
year old okay, now, an out of the box hit

(08:02):
like two Occasions. Now as a person who has not
had a lifespan, and I'm talking about myself as a
singles artist, you know. I mean, I've had many top
ten albums, you know whatever. I make my living on
the road, but as a singles artist, I'm not. I'm

(08:23):
led to believe that hits are manufactured, not in that
sort of organic way that we're led to believe it is,
where it's like you're just suddenly singing and you know,
I like that two Occasion song by the Deal, and
then you called the radio station and you request it

(08:45):
and then it becomes a hit. I'm led to believe,
especially now that deals are already made. And I'm not
asking about the process of how deals get made, but
is two Occasions a hit?

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Because it just organically spread that way or was the
solar muscle.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
Again.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
I'm not gonna give up until I get it Dick
Griffy's story behind.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
It to make it a hit.

Speaker 5 (09:19):
Okay, So what I think poor?

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Is it a meet you halfway thing? Give us a
song we could work with and then we'll ram it.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
I am shamelessly commercial.

Speaker 7 (09:30):
Let me just put that out there, right, I'm you
and I are opposites in that regard, like I am.
I am like so singles oriented like like, especially like
the first two songs I picked or Stiff's, so I
became like I'm gonna get the singles thing down right.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
So I before let me interrupt you real quick, and
I want to use this opportunity to actually the spell
a myth. Okay, I am not anti singles. I actually no, no,
I don't think anti single anti and I is good.
I will freely admit. I mean this might be captain

(10:07):
obvious to you know, Fonte, whatever is I think for
half the people that just pose like a man, I
ain't with that bubblegum pop shit.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
It's I believe that pop songs.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
Are the hardest things, right right, You give me a
free jazz song, I'll knock that shit. It'll be on
the next Robert Glasper record, you know instantly, But I
don't know, you know, And I think since I've put
in twenty thousand hours of DJing hard DJing between the
last Roots album, yeah, now there's like nine years of that,

(10:41):
I'm I'm hyper aware of what songs work and don't
work that I didn't have in my first Now, I
guess my job is to not make it so.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
You know, now that I know the secrets or the codes.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
Or whatever, to figure out how to nuance by none
and not just make it like okay, now that I
know we need hit singles, like I know what our
fan base expects of us. However, I just want to
say that I'm not anti pop because I did.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
I think it's you know, kid music. I just never
knew how to.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Do it right right.

Speaker 5 (11:21):
I completely get that.

Speaker 7 (11:23):
Listen I have This may be a fair or unfair comparison,
but first version of Cooling the Gang and then the
pop version Opion right they made they made too Hot
and all those songs they were great, But I hated
that band like I loved the original. But how do
you feel now about looking back as an executive looking

(11:46):
back on it, But that was me. That was me
before record companies, before anything. It was just a preference.
I'm like, y'all soft, that's soft, Like, that's like what
is come on? What's Hollywood swinging? And those crazy intros
in the like those are just songs. I didn't like
it at all. Right now, I understand the difference. I

(12:07):
still prefer the first version of.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Cool in the gang.

Speaker 7 (12:10):
So what I'm saying is you and your band can't
really afford to do it. Man, if y'all really, if
y'all really did it, like what happens is that you
disappoint a lifetime of fans, and no matter how you
feel about it, at that point, maybe for the first time,
you're going to be really criticized for trying to get hit.

Speaker 6 (12:33):
So it's that is.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
It will be the first time because but.

Speaker 7 (12:37):
You're you're so successful at what you do that that
would be a mistake.

Speaker 5 (12:41):
My opinion is that that would be a mistake, right
unless it will.

Speaker 7 (12:44):
Completely organic, completely like nothing changes except this song just
happened to catch, right, But because if you give anything
to to if you look like you're trying, you can't
do that, Like you're you're you're a savior.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
You could you can't do that.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I'm not doing that.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
However, I am so aware that, wow, we never we've
had grooves, but we never had a melody line.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
There's never a part of the song that you can
whistle and it sticks with you.

Speaker 6 (13:14):
That's not true. And also, isn't there a gray in there?

Speaker 8 (13:16):
Isn't it a fact then that maybe y'all were just
missing an la ear when it comes to singles, because
for me, as the radio girl listened to all these
records that y'all put out, at times, I just felt
like y'all didn't hear the single, y'all put out the
wrong song, like what about the gray?

Speaker 4 (13:30):
And there As of this conversation two days ago, I'm
talking right now.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
From New Orleans.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
We just did the Essence Festival and for the first
time we've played with Little Kim, and of course the
subject of Lighters Up comes up now. For those that
don't know, Little Kim's Lighters Up song was a root song.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
That I don't know.

Speaker 6 (14:03):
Love Supreme Hill answer Scott.

Speaker 4 (14:09):
All I can say was, when Tarika and I went
to Florida, we made Lighters Up. We took a three
hour dinner break by the way, having dinner with O. J. Simpson,
a bust of rhymes. Long story, yeah, long story, come
back to the studio, finish the music of what you

(14:29):
know is Lighters Up. Came back, you know, pretty confident, like, hey,
we're gonna have a good first single for our Tipping
Point record. And next thing, I know, like a month later,
I hear that song with Little Kim on it, and
I was just like, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Oh wow, Scott, Well.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
I mean, no, Scott obviously gave it to Kim, but oh,
Scott stores.

Speaker 6 (14:56):
You know original root.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Scott was the roots. Yes, yeah, so.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
Even then my whole point was that, and you know,
we joked about it, like, you know, this is our
song first or whatever.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
She was surprised.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
She's like, she like, I heard you play drums on it,
but no, I if you remember and do the right
thing when Samuel Jackson does the Senior Love Daddy the
all thing, Yes, if you listen to that music in
the background, I was do the right thing was on
in the break room, and I remember that. I was like, Hey,
let me see if I can make a song without

(15:32):
a snare and just with high hats and symbols. That's
what I was. Wow, that's what I was making. Then
Scott put piano on top of it, and it was like,
all right, this this could work. But my whole point
is that even if we kept that song, I'm not
even certain that he would have done to that song
what she did to So it's almost like, yes, it

(15:56):
went with this rightful owner. Again, we don't have have
a filter in us that knows how to not flex
our intellect, Like Tarik has to be the smartest guy
in the room, right instead of the most relatable guy
in the room lyrically, And they're rich.

Speaker 6 (16:11):
Ever, let anybody else help pick a single?

Speaker 5 (16:14):
Rich was brilliant too, Yeah, definitely, but.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Just got made it up to us by doing don't
say nothing.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
But then that's when our fan base sort of clap back,
Like I thought, don't see nothing with Quevla because I
like the fact that Treek was saying something nonsensible.

Speaker 7 (16:29):
Here's my take on it. There's two kinds of stars.
There's the artist and there's the song. Right, songs can
be stars, right, and artists can be stars. And when
the two collide, you get with in Houston, I don't know, right,
you get you know, the big whoever you might like

(16:50):
Michael Jackson, you know, but sometimes the artist is the star,
but not necessarily the song. And sometimes the song is
a star, but not necessarily the artist. Big facts, Right,
That's how I look So I separate those two, right,
turning the back.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
That song is, yeah, that song as a jail.

Speaker 7 (17:16):
There's many of those, but there's also there's also very
very talented artist Tory Amos.

Speaker 5 (17:22):
You don't know if you listen a hit.

Speaker 7 (17:24):
Maker, but she's incredible, right, and you know, and and
there are others, you know, But so I separate the two.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
That's how I That's how I look at it.

Speaker 7 (17:35):
So do you think that the industry as it is
now makes space for those kinds of artists? Do you
think there's a space for those artists to exist, like
on major labels where it's like, Okay, you may not
have the hit record or the TikTok song that is
going off, but you just are an amazing artist, and
I think there's an audience for that.

Speaker 5 (17:56):
You're not gonna like my answer.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
I'm trouble and I got a tag on top of
Fante's question.

Speaker 7 (18:06):
My answer to that is not if you no.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Hit that's that's that's that's true.

Speaker 7 (18:20):
If you if you got a hot garage band that
don't make his don't no problem.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
We'll just put you on the road.

Speaker 5 (18:25):
Just stay on the road un till you.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Get a hit, or you better be the band that's
on a label that believes in that, which definitely and literally,
I don't even know if I told people this. The
only reason why The Roots lasted that long is because
it was in our contract. If you have album number one,
we have to make three albums. If you have album

(18:47):
number four, we have to make three albums. If you
have album number seven, you have to make so we
couldn't get dropped. That was the only way that we
never got we would have gotten dropped. Otherwise, Wait, I
have to ask this because I heard all right, so post.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
And I'm so jumping ahead in the future.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
But since you brought it up, I believe the story
that was told to me was back when I think
this was eighty not eighty, this was either nineteen ninety
nine or two thousand. I believe you guys signed an

(19:29):
artist named Stephanie Jerreman Nada to the label.

Speaker 7 (19:37):
Who that would have been probably a little later than that, probably.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Six. Okay, all right.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
My whole point is that the Fiona Apple incarnation of
Lady Gaga was, to my knowledge, on a deaf jam artist,
or she was signed to the label and.

Speaker 5 (20:01):
Yep, I signed her.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
Right, what do you see in that artist that later
morphed into what we know.

Speaker 5 (20:07):
Now the day she came in.

Speaker 7 (20:10):
She plays rock and roll piano, first of all, and
she's incredible at it.

Speaker 5 (20:15):
And she came in and she had on the white Go.

Speaker 7 (20:17):
Go boots and and she was like just sducing the piano.
I mean, you know, she gets in it. She's inside
the keys, right, thank you?

Speaker 5 (20:29):
Right.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
I was to say that, but you know, Tori Amos,
that's what I saw in her prime show.

Speaker 7 (20:36):
Yeah, that's what I saw, and I thought she was incredible,
and I remember saying to her that, and she reminded
me of this, because my memory is not that good.
She told me that in that room. I told her
that she would likely change music. That's how passionate I was.
So we signed her and then they started to bring

(20:57):
me demos. And when I heard the demos, like, I
didn't hear that same thing that I saw, and I
didn't like it. And I had Rihanna and Justin Bieber
and Kanye and the Dream and everybody, and I was
feeling myself way too damn much, right, note to self, like,
don't go feeling yourself, and they were, and I was like,

(21:19):
this is I don't want to put this out, like
this is not it, this is not the girl I signed,
this is not this isn't moving me.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
And I let her go before we ever released the record.

Speaker 7 (21:31):
And then she found Acon Red One and ultimately Jimmy
Ivy and she put out Just Dance and it started
blowing up in Canada.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
I was watching it because I didn't want to be embarrassed.

Speaker 7 (21:47):
I was like, that's just Canada. Then I started seeing
it blow up in Miami. That's just Miami, that's just
the clubs. Then it started blowing up in the Bay.
Then it charted man, and then god god.

Speaker 6 (22:06):
I was like, you stupid.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
You feel like wow yo.

Speaker 9 (22:12):
So okay, So question so in that situation and your
role as an executive, how much of it is putting
out or putting out things that you like versus a
record may come to you and it's like, Okay, I
personally don't like this, but I know that it will
work with this audience, like how much of it is like.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
Your personal taste versus the market.

Speaker 5 (22:32):
It's a little bit of both.

Speaker 7 (22:32):
First of all, I will stand even in that case
I clearly blew it. But for the most part, I'll
stand by other people that work at the label. If
they say they're passionate about something, I'll give it a shot.
It doesn't have to just be my thing, right, But
if it's something that I signed, that I personally endorsed,
then I want to feel good about it. In those cases,

(22:55):
I'm kind of listening to me, right, But I just
blew it, Man, I just completely blew it.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
I have to appreciate. But here's the thing I appreciate
about this story. We've had three artists on the show
that told us the story of where it wasn't working
out with their label staff right. And and instead of
just being like, you know what, you're right, let's let's

(23:21):
let's call it the other day and let you go,
I learned that the label will sometimes just freezing artists
out just to avoid the embarrassment.

Speaker 5 (23:34):
In case that happens, Yes.

Speaker 7 (23:37):
For sure, people hold on. They don't want to be
wrong or they don't want to make a decision. But
I don't respect that, like I'd rather like, listen, I
blew it, and I tell you I blew it, and
and while it while it, it pains me and it's embarrassing.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
I'd rather live in that truth than to.

Speaker 7 (23:56):
Have shelved her and just made her keep going back
and going back and going back when I knew I
didn't like it.

Speaker 5 (24:02):
I didn't like it.

Speaker 7 (24:03):
It wasn't for me, right, So if it's not for me,
perhaps she could have a life somewhere else. And I'm
actually okay with that, as embarrassing as it is.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
How different was the music that she presented to you,
How different was it than what she presented.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
To the world.

Speaker 7 (24:18):
It was very different because if you know her, you
know she's diverse and she could do many things. And
the kind of music she made on the first album
and a little bit on the second album, she's never
revisited that. So she's clearly able to do a lot
of different kinds of music. And it wasn't that was
like like dance pop or that's what I called it,

(24:39):
you know, So it wasn't ediom yet or no, it
wasn't that flavor at all. It was kind of piano based,
a little bit, jamming a little bit.

Speaker 5 (24:49):
Yeah, but it just can they didn't feel like it.

Speaker 7 (24:56):
All right, we gotta get back at the time machine
because I'm not trying to coll.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Well.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
I want to know what touring with the Deal was
like across the States as opposed to just you guys
being in one environment as a club band.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Like your first, your first touring.

Speaker 7 (25:17):
Oh my god, our first the first show we had
as the Deal with body Talk as a hit, we
opened for the DeBarge and Luther Vandros.

Speaker 6 (25:27):
Oh that sounds familiar, life changing moment.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Right.

Speaker 7 (25:31):
First show is at uh in Indianapolis at Market Square Arena.
So now now we have a band that's gone from
playing club that could barely hold two hundred people to
Market Square Arena and we hit that stage and we
would open the act. So we got a line check
but not a sound check. And I like to use

(25:52):
that as an excuse why we were so bad.

Speaker 5 (25:56):
But we were horrible.

Speaker 7 (25:59):
I mean, were so horrible when we got off stage,
like we didn't even you know, we're supposed to be excited.

Speaker 5 (26:04):
That's our first show is.

Speaker 7 (26:05):
In a big arena and a major tour, and we
should have been like really happy and excited and slapping
each other five and and having a celebratory moment.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
But we were really embarrassed by it.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (26:19):
We didn't have we were not built for that big stage.
We didn't know what we were getting into. And and
we overdid our We overdid our our gimmick, too much, makeup,
too much.

Speaker 6 (26:34):
Everything for all the cities or for certain cities.

Speaker 7 (26:37):
No, this was just this one show. So the show
is over and I'm in the hotel room. My road manager,
his name is Leon Burnett, wonderful man. He comes, Dick
Griffy wants to talk to you. I'm like, oh, and
I don't remember the conversation that well, but I remember

(27:00):
being a little bit frightened and not threatened, but warned
if we come out like that again, we're off the show.
And I remember him saying something about Sylvester, right, like
we don't want no more Sylvester's we don't want to
know something like that. Like it was something like that.
And anyway, we cleaned up our act and the next

(27:21):
night we were a lot better. Right, But the first night, man,
we blew it so badly. It was just really bad.
And then we got a little used to it. Luther
embraced us, El debarsed embraced us, and we all kind
of became friends. And then they started, you know, we
got treated a little bit better, and we got better

(27:42):
and we had some nights when we actually really caught
a good rhythm.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
But I've heard stories of Luther's restrictions. Again, I'm also
a good friend with a friend of the show is
Sheep Gordon, who would say, how ain'tal retentive.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
Luther was with the lights you can use or the
colors you can wear.

Speaker 7 (28:03):
Yes, we never heard about colors, definitely the lights and
how many channels on the mixing console and.

Speaker 5 (28:10):
Things like that.

Speaker 7 (28:11):
But like Luther and I were buddies, you know, and
and Kenny because like he has so much respect for
Kenny as a songwriter, because we used to give Luther
demos when we were on the road. Uh So we
just kind of built a relationship and we never felt
like there was a lot of restrictions there. As a
matter of fact, he wouldn't even make us leave backstage.

(28:33):
He would let us state, you know, because there used
to be this when the superstar comes out of the
dressing room.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
All right.

Speaker 8 (28:43):
Now it's definitely still happens one of those people is
going to jail for thirty years. But he used to
do that all the time, right, it was the same.

Speaker 7 (28:54):
But Luther didn't do that to us. He let us
hang right and oh, did you.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Know the drummer? Yes? I own a snare drummer?

Speaker 3 (29:05):
You do.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
I got lucky someone had.

Speaker 5 (29:08):
I'm sorry sidebar? How good was he?

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Like? I want to know what you thought?

Speaker 1 (29:12):
I loved your guests.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Actually one of the very first instructional one of the
first instructional drum things. I used to my teacher used
to make me watch Yogi did one before he passed away?

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Wait, can I ask? Did he pass away while on tour?

Speaker 5 (29:29):
Yes, but not that tour.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Were you guys on the tour or we.

Speaker 7 (29:34):
Weren't on the tour that he passed away on It
was two years later, okay. I always wanted to know
how how did Luther recovered? Like finding another drummer and
that sort of I wasn't around, but we were on
the tour when Marvin passed away. We were on tour
with Luther when Marvin passed. I remember us having a
prayer moment backstage, completely quiet. Everybody on the tour holding
hands and Luther. Yeah, it was really it was really moving.

(29:58):
It was really something. Luther was really torn, right, all
of us were. I didn't know Marvin personally, but obviously
was touched by his music. But Luther must have been
very close to him because he assembled everybody, every truck driver,
everybody backstage right.

Speaker 5 (30:13):
Oh really it was really special, really special.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
The reason why I'm asking you about tour life is
because I know eventually you're going to morph into just production,
which of course means that you're going to have to
leave the band in your mind? Is it like, okay,
there has to be something else other than this, Like
where's the point where suddenly the wheels are turning and

(30:39):
you're like, okay, we have to be a team, we
have to write hits? Like how does that happen for me?

Speaker 3 (30:45):
It was.

Speaker 7 (30:47):
We enjoyed being on the road. I enjoyed it. On
the very first tour that we did and the second album,
as we talked about material, things didn't work, so we
didn't have as much work, but we still did some
some gigs here and there.

Speaker 5 (31:02):
We worked, and then the third album took a while.

Speaker 7 (31:05):
So between our second album and the third album, we
started to develop as songwriters.

Speaker 5 (31:12):
And producers a little bit better, and.

Speaker 7 (31:14):
Because the second album wasn't a success, we.

Speaker 5 (31:17):
Had a little more time on our hands.

Speaker 7 (31:19):
So when we went back to do the tour with
two occasions, I was over it, like seriously was over it,
like before the tour started.

Speaker 5 (31:30):
And because I couldn't play anymore, man, I lost. I didn't.

Speaker 7 (31:33):
I don't know what happened, but maybe I started thinking
about it or I don't know, but something got into
me and I just couldn't play anymore. And my hands
were hurting, like I felt like I had arthritis in
my hands, and I just I lost it. I mean
at sixteen, I thought I was really good, you know,
at twenty one, I thought I was really good. And

(31:56):
by my mid twenties, man, it just started to go
away and I really never got it back. So like
I still have this, and that didn't upset you, Yes,
it really upset me except one thing. I took that
drum machine, and I'm a master that thing I was.
I was like, I don't care who you are, Jimmy
jam Teddy Riley, I'm challenging anybody.

Speaker 5 (32:18):
I could do this better than anybody, right, And.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
So I switched what was your r choice.

Speaker 7 (32:24):
I have every drum machine they made, Man Drum, the DMX,
the eight Away everything.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
For me, I have to say, you do you do
have a trademark. It's I don't know how you did
it or why you did it, but I noticed it.
Every fourth, maybe every eighth class, you will put extra
emphasis on the refer right.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Like some class would be normal.

Speaker 5 (32:52):
I got that from Jimmy Jam.

Speaker 7 (32:55):
I straight stole that from Jimmy Jam because control bom
right and I loved it so much, so it was
really Jimmy's signature.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
I borrowed it with friends.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
But every it wouldn't be every clap, it would be everyone.
It was strategically placed.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
And for me, when I think of the sound of classic,
like when I think of Jimmy, Jame, Terry Lewis, it's
like the sound of the classic gate Away, right, the
sound that old boy who produced loosens Oh, Nick Marnelli,
that's right, that's right, five star like anything that sounds
like Jam and Lewis, Like that's their trademark.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
But for you, it's always.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
Right to this day, like no one has mastered that
level of gated reaverb better man than you did.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
But was that. Okay, you say you took it.

Speaker 7 (33:55):
From him, I mean, but still, you know, we learned
from each other. And then I, you know, you're in
bella ship and do things with it. But but I
would spend hours, hours and hours and hours and hours
playing with those drum machines and playing with rhythms and
taking Kenny's keyboards and muting them and putting them through
filters and playing. I just played with the sound, you know,

(34:16):
a lot, and that became my new passion. So that
and a lot of that was because, by the way,
I never actually played live on a recording session.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Really really.

Speaker 7 (34:27):
I did when I was young, Like when I was young,
I did some records, but like after we had the
deal and when we be came uh and started making records,
like I never actually played a live kit on a
drum on a.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
Record, like never never on a hit record, right, uh.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Hey, you know what it's called for, right I was.

Speaker 5 (34:46):
And then I heard you and then I was like, oh,
get out. I remember I.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
Heard about new record. I was like, yo, my son
telling me.

Speaker 6 (34:54):
I was like, I was like, who is that?

Speaker 7 (34:57):
And then I read about your Rolling Stone magazine and
with your dad and all think I'm gone from.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
Me anyway, So can you talk to us about the
conversation that leads to you and Kenny, like really making
this official? Who was the first outside non deal artist
that the La and Babyface that we know of.

Speaker 7 (35:19):
Let's see, the very first one was when we officially
did it together. That would have been the whispers rock Steady, Yeah,
rock Steady. That's when we did it together and they
hired Kenny. They called Kenny, they didn't call both of us,
and Kenny said, I have to have La with me,
so he pulled me along.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Okay, right, and.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
It was really special. It was really good looking out
and we had a comfort level working.

Speaker 7 (35:50):
But Kenny was obviously really famous and at Solar as
a songwriter more so than like the two of us,
you know, and because of Yeah, that's kind of what happened,
and we went in, we made rock Steady and then
it became official.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
You know, did you know there was a pop hit
or immediately did it become about it?

Speaker 7 (36:13):
No?

Speaker 5 (36:13):
I knew it immediate, I swear to you.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
I did.

Speaker 7 (36:16):
Like when what when we were writing it? I knew
when we were we were in an apartment on we
lived on Highland Avenue in Hollywood, and when we were
writing it, I had a really good feeling about it.
But then when we got in the studio and we
laid it down and we put the Whispers on the
background vocal before they sang lead. I remember, I'll never

(36:40):
ever forget that moment. I was like, oh my god,
this is a smash. I knew it, and people in
the studio knew it. Like in other rooms, people would
come around while we were working on it and hang
out in the doorway and watch.

Speaker 5 (36:53):
It was just something special going on in that room,
and we knew it right. Uh.

Speaker 7 (36:56):
And then when you know, Scottie and walk from the
Whispers put their vocal on it, they just that was
icing on the cake. But I swear to you I
already felt it was a hit. And that goes back
to your other question, like our.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Hits manufactured or factored?

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Is it organic?

Speaker 5 (37:15):
I think that it's a little bit of both.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
Anytime I see the Whispers sing, both Scotty twins sing
in tandem, right, who's doing the singing?

Speaker 3 (37:26):
Because that sounds like one verse, it's Scotty.

Speaker 7 (37:29):
Scotty is the one, Okay, Walter Walter is a lighter version,
same same a very similar, tone, very similar, but but
Scotty has more power.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Oh so when is it when it's guage time?

Speaker 1 (37:48):
That's that's Scotty that we know Scotty.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
That's Scotty.

Speaker 10 (37:51):
Man.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
It just gets better with time and Scotty. That's right.

Speaker 7 (37:55):
Yeah, in the mood, Scotty move, that's Scotty. Okay, Oh wow,
Sorry for.

Speaker 6 (38:03):
Telling the truth, y'all.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
I appreciate it, but I just always wanted to know
why when they sing. I've never seen just one person
sing that song. It's always both of them together, I.

Speaker 7 (38:15):
Know, right, Yeah, that's the show show.

Speaker 5 (38:18):
Yeah, that's what that is.

Speaker 8 (38:21):
Dick Griffy, was that did he re react to when
you got that big hit? Did he say something to
you about I was curious because you was hitting some duds,
so it's.

Speaker 6 (38:27):
According to him.

Speaker 5 (38:29):
Yeah, I don't remember.

Speaker 7 (38:31):
I really don't remember it though, because we had another
hit at the same time that he wasn't.

Speaker 5 (38:35):
Very happy about what girlfriend.

Speaker 7 (38:38):
It was called Girlfriend, and it was on and it
was on a competing label, m c A, and I
felt more. I felt more shade from Dick about doing
that than I did. Congratulations for making rock steady, damn. Yeah, Okay,
as a matter of fact, I remember him coming to
visit me once and I was like, Hey, just made

(39:01):
this record on Paul.

Speaker 5 (39:01):
I do I want to hear?

Speaker 3 (39:03):
No, I actually I don't.

Speaker 7 (39:10):
I love you, man, And I don't say that like
I'm trying to be protective of reputationally or anything.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Like.

Speaker 7 (39:17):
I really loved the man because he was the first
record executive I ever met, So the whole idea of
being a record executive. I was heavily influenced by him, right,
and watching him make decisions and kind of how and why,
and you know some of the things he would say
to me, you know, say it was really it was
really a good and he was impressionable.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
But we had a really good relationship.

Speaker 6 (39:42):
Do you remember I was thinking about this today about Dick.

Speaker 8 (39:44):
Do you remember something that you took with you from
being with him that you learn and something that you said,
I ain't taking that with me when I do what
I do.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
Wait, as far as.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
The things I didn't, if you have to hear you
hang somebody out the window.

Speaker 5 (39:55):
Yeah I don't.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
I didn't.

Speaker 5 (39:58):
If it's a lot I didn't take, okay, you know.

Speaker 7 (40:02):
Answer, Yeah, there's there's some things that I definitely uh
took with me. He called me once and he said,
let me ask you something. Seem to know everything. Why
are you still living in Cincinnati? I said, it's our hometown.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
You still living in Cincinnati.

Speaker 5 (40:19):
I was living in Cincinnati when we made our first two.

Speaker 7 (40:22):
Albums, right, And he said, you can make more money
by accident in Los Angeles than you can make on
purpose in Cincinnati.

Speaker 5 (40:35):
Two weeks later, I lived in La.

Speaker 6 (40:39):
Oh my god, now I know why you why you left?
It went to Atlanta. Okay, we're now going that far yet,
just in.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
That initial period, how are Because the thing is, it's
like the deal guys never truly left us, because I
see different combinations of their names as songwriter or musicians.
So how what is what is the adjustment of sort
of dissolving the deal and you and you and Babyface

(41:14):
starting your own unit and like it is a church
and state?

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Do you guys have your own management?

Speaker 4 (41:22):
Your own Like are you now prioritizing working in the
studio with these artists and then the group later?

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Like how's how's this working out?

Speaker 5 (41:31):
When I think back on it?

Speaker 7 (41:33):
And maybe I've never thought about it this way, but
when I think back on it, I can see how
the other members of the group could really be unhappy
with the choices that we made, right although they ultimately
benefited everybody. In that moment, I could see how the
other members of the group weren't very happy because one

(41:56):
one of the things was they liked Cincinnati. My other
guys and it's still my friends to this day, right,
but they liked Cincinnati, and Keny and I didn't. We
had no desire to be since Cincinnati. And Kenny didn't
even like Atlanta that much, right, I mean he liked it,
but like he didn't he didn't live there very long. Uh,

(42:17):
he preferred living in Los Angeles, and you know, and
he was a very ambitious and very talented man and
is is and you know, but the other guys kind
of were a little bit more homebodies, so they weren't
as ambitious.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
Was there an opportunity for them to join the fray?
Like who's coming with me? Who's coming with me?

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Or was it?

Speaker 7 (42:38):
Sort of like I think after I'm trying to remember
exactly how it took place, but I feel like after
the last tour, Yeah, the last tour we did, everybody
kind of went their separate ways without a conversation Keny
and I. After the tour was over, we decided to
move to Atlanta with my was my girlfriend at the time, right,

(43:03):
And we all decided and Darryl Simmons, who is Kenny's
best friend and a really really talented songwriter and producer, Yeah,
he decided to move to Atlanta with us. And Ko
went to Atlanta with us, but Carlos and d who
were our.

Speaker 5 (43:21):
Other lead singers, they went back to Cincinnati.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
Wait a minute, I'm so okay, so worded that you're
telling the story, because when I was watching a new
addition headline the Essence Festival, I was sitting there just
marveling at the fact that the Michael of the group,
the leader of the group, really didn't get his moment
in the Sun the way that it should have been, right,

(43:47):
you know, because even in the way that they craft
their show, it's literally like just the best mixtape ever
right there, forty years and you know, not not even
throwing shape. But yes, Sensitivity was probably the slowest part
of the night, even though it was a straight up hit, right,
but no, no, no, no, But by that point it was
like nineteen hits. They already did nineteen hits. It was like, damn,

(44:11):
I gotta go to bathroom sensitivity. All right, right, let
me take you like sensitivity as the time, it was like,
all right, let me sit down because I know poisons
about to come up.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
I gotta rest my linight right right.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
But I was like I was trying to wonder in history,
was there ever a case where the lead singers sort
of faded in the background while everyone else in the
unit got to do that? So I always wanted to
know what did what did they do once like in
nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety, like.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Did they try their hand that song? Right? Did they
try producing?

Speaker 7 (44:45):
They made a couple of records as the deal because
although we all went our separate ways, they did keep
the unit together and they toured some. Uh, they did
some dates in Japan, and they did a few dates
here and there. They would work on weekends at least
that's what I understand. And they went out and found

(45:08):
a couple of guys that could do the job, you know,
and they worked.

Speaker 5 (45:12):
They've been working. But they also they took ninety five jobs.

Speaker 7 (45:19):
Yeah, but then D got very lucky because d D
D Bristol, he actually is the guy that wrote the
chorus I Only think of you on two occasions that
day and night.

Speaker 5 (45:29):
He wrote that, so years later Mariah Carey.

Speaker 7 (45:33):
Used it on We Belong Together, so he saw money
money still comes in.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Yeah, just in general, between nineteen eighty seven and nineteen
ninety one, I mean, god damn.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
You.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
Had at least like sixty plus hits top forty hits.
What is like is what is the not even the
division of labor, but just in terms of that much.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
Volume, what does your life look like? Right? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Like how to me? Are you bespoking these songs? Is
it like Jermaine comes to town and you're like talking
to him. Okay, here's a song called Don't Take It Personal.
You're meeting TLC for the first time. It's like, okay,
well let me see a baby baby. Like are these
songs sort of like in the stash somewhere in the
back and you're like, would you like this?

Speaker 3 (46:34):
Would you like this?

Speaker 7 (46:35):
Or are you custom making these songs? Some of those
songs were custom made? Some of those songs. You gotta remember,
first of all, Kenny Evans is one of the most
prolific songwriters ever. So he has a war chest of
material that's unreal, like I, you know, sometimes I want
to call and say, man, let me just go through
the tapes, like really, because he's so prolific. That's that's

(46:59):
the first thing. So he always had something. But then
when we like if it were Bobby Brown, sometimes we
would start things from scratch Whitney Houston, we would start
songs from scratch where we were thinking about the artists.
But then every now and then he would pull a
song out that he'd had for a long time, and

(47:20):
I'm Ready he gave to Tevin Campbell, which is one
of my favorite songs, and it had been around for
like ten years or better.

Speaker 5 (47:26):
I think he met her. He might have had that
song when I met him.

Speaker 7 (47:29):
Seriously, I remember that long ago, like in the first
the first chapter of our relationships as musicians and friends.
I remember hearing I'm Ready on a demo, so there
was a backlog of material, but then we would work
on things. End of the Road was I don't think

(47:50):
End of the Road was written for boys to man,
but once it was done, it was pretty obvious.

Speaker 5 (47:55):
So I knew who to call.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Or I remember, you know, how to match a song
to an artist?

Speaker 3 (48:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (48:02):
I don't really know, But I think that that's what
A and R really is. It's artist and repertoire, right,
finding the artist and the repertoire to match it when
it's particularly when it's people that maybe either they don't
write songs, or they collaborate, or they accept outside songs,
and we tended to work with people who accepted outside material.

(48:26):
We didn't like it that much working with people who
could also write, because it always changed how we would write, right,
And we had a thing that we liked to do,
and we thought of ourselves as we thought we were.

Speaker 5 (48:40):
The deal and whoever was singing was the lead singer.

Speaker 7 (48:43):
Right, But it was like every song was I'm your
Baby tonight is the deal feature in Whitney Houston. That's
how we always looked at right, or my My Mine
is the deal feature Johnny gill or you know, because
me and Kenny and Ko and Darryll basically played on
everything you know or programmed or how we want to
look at it.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
We created all of the.

Speaker 7 (49:03):
Music for it, uh, And we didn't really like tampering.
So I remember once we were doing Jermaine Jackson and
we we finished some records and then he brought in
his keyboard player to like reproduce all the songs, and
we were like, what's this and the dudes and and
I forget his name.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
Now he's really talented, but it was just changing everything,
and it was it was like, now this doesn't work. No,
I said, we'll keep that solo.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
We did.

Speaker 5 (49:31):
That's the best we could do the rest of it.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
You know, at work at Saturday Night Live, whenever comedians
stand up comedians host the show, they try to bring
their team in to try to write for them right,
and it never works. It's always best when you just
trust the system and let the producers or let the
writers do it. So for that initial gust of Eli

(49:57):
face La faced them, what song.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Almost didn't make it?

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (50:06):
Man, let me see at least a staple that we know.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (50:12):
I think we were way too greedy and ambitious.

Speaker 7 (50:14):
Man, we're trying to get everything out, Like, I don't
I don't recall that one.

Speaker 5 (50:18):
I don't have a good answer to that one.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Okay, you guys produced Pebbles, and you also produced Karen
White's first record, right, first album, Amazing Results, second album.
Why didn't Karen White? Now I knew at the time
she's dating Terry Lewis. Why didn't you guys work on

(50:43):
the second Karen White record?

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Or is that a Benny Bendina thing?

Speaker 7 (50:48):
Oh no, that definitely wasn't a been anything.

Speaker 5 (50:53):
Wait a minute, it was.

Speaker 7 (51:02):
Okay, wait wait, let me ask fante.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
For the life of you, can you sing the first
And I know jam Is gonna kill me for this,
but even I gotten to admit this. Can you name
can you sing the first verse of a Romantic?

Speaker 3 (51:18):
No?

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Dude, do you know that Romantic actually went to number one? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (51:22):
I believe that was on the radio hard though.

Speaker 7 (51:24):
Wow, yeah it was number one hop hit.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Yes, look at space right now?

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Exactly, yeah, exactly, I remember the list.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
Y'all all singing the wrong Romantic. My whole point is that, yes,
even though they managed to get a number one pop
single off that Karen.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
White record, there was no impact.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
I couldn't name no cut for the life of me.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
And my thing is like, if it's not broken now again,
my assumption is she married Terry Lewis, so it's sort
of like just bring your husband the workday or whatever.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
But I wouldn't.

Speaker 5 (52:14):
No, I think it was I think you nailed it.

Speaker 7 (52:16):
Okay, so for entertainment, I have to tell your story
just for entertainment's sake, and I'll go quickly.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
No, we love this.

Speaker 7 (52:24):
So we're in New Orleans where you are now. There
used to be a show called the Budweiser Superfessed. Yes, yes,
we're on the tool thank you, and we're on the
package doing our final tour with two occasions, and Pebbles
is with us. She's not on the tour, but she's
hanging out with me. Her tour ended, she's just hanging

(52:45):
with me. Benny Medina invites us to a Warner Music
conference that they're having in New Orleans, right, and all
the labels like Warner Electra, Atlantic, all the labels and
all the big executives who I didn't know at the time,
Steve Ross and Bob Kratz Now and David Geffen and

(53:06):
Quincy Jones and Doug Morris and Jimmy I all these
I didn't know any of them anyway. So Benny invites
us because we happen to have one of their hottest records,
Superwoman with Karen White at the time, So he invites
Babyface and I to the conference.

Speaker 5 (53:25):
So we're like great, So we go to.

Speaker 7 (53:28):
The conference and we walk in and it's baby Face
Pebbles and myself and I don't know record company politics
or anything like that.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
Benny comes running over to us and.

Speaker 7 (53:40):
Says, I invited you, and I invited you, and he
points to Pebbles and he says.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
But I did not invite her.

Speaker 7 (53:50):
And I'm like, well, if she can't come, then I
don't want to be here because and I don't get it.

Speaker 5 (53:57):
I don't And we turn around and.

Speaker 7 (53:59):
Leave, and we and and we fall out, and Ben
and I don't speak for a decade, right, wow. And
ten years later he told me it was because la
I was seating you guys with Karen White, and it's
her moment and her competition is Pebbles, and you bring
Pebbles in and you know, at the same table, like
and I was like, oh, I thought you would just

(54:20):
being an asshole.

Speaker 5 (54:20):
I didn't realize I was.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
I was, I was long here.

Speaker 5 (54:24):
I didn't know. I didn't know.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
So so I didn't speak to Benny for a decade
and we never worked with Karen again.

Speaker 6 (54:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
Wow, finally an answer I'm satisfied with, be cause it's like,
why ruin the formula?

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Why ruin the formula exactly.

Speaker 7 (54:41):
And we loved working with Karen, like loved it and
we had.

Speaker 5 (54:45):
Fun doing it.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Right.

Speaker 5 (54:46):
She was fun. She could sing.

Speaker 7 (54:48):
She had a great tone, great voice, and she was
like a real musician type of singer.

Speaker 5 (54:52):
You know, she had some you know, she knew music.

Speaker 7 (54:55):
She knew about, you know, sliding the family stone, things
that we liked, she knew about. By the way, the
end of Superwoman ever so slightly like Purple Rain.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
With the strings and the slightly nice the stories.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
I like, got that.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
So you know we were first introduced to you as
kind of solar house producers.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Yes, one how did that phase?

Speaker 4 (55:32):
And it almost looked like you had a universal mc
A situation about to happen.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
And then the next thing, I know, everything's happening on Arista.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
Now when you're doing a roster, when you're when you're
producing for these artists, is it a contractual thing?

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Are you allowed to do other people or is it
like once you.

Speaker 4 (55:56):
Start the Arista phase, you must stick to Aristat and arrist.

Speaker 7 (56:00):
Only it wasn't exactly that. It started out that we
were solar in house producers for sure, and after after
the Whispers took off and the deal and Babyface had
his little Silas. We became friends with Lowell and Cheryl
Dickerson at both of them and Jeryl Busby. We became

(56:21):
friends with the MCA crew and we went over and
started helping them.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
We did the Mac Band for them. One of my
favorite songs.

Speaker 7 (56:29):
We ever did was Roses Already Yeah and feel Underrated.
It feels like no one knows it, you know, but
I really dig that. And we ended up doing Pebbles
for them, and he did The Boys as well, and
we did the Boys and Ye later when it became Motown,

(56:49):
we did Boys to Men.

Speaker 4 (56:50):
No label CEO is making you guys sound an exclusive
contract to stay, which is like it never occurred to
Dick Griffy to say, you guys are my house only.

Speaker 7 (57:01):
I think I did sign a contract with with Solar
for to be an exclusive in house producer, but I
never got I never got the money, so I never
honored it.

Speaker 5 (57:11):
Okay, cool, Yeah, you know, Uh, he didn't hold me
to it. I didn't hold him to it, and it
wasn't for that much money. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (57:18):
So so we worked with with Louis for a while
and then Benny Medina called no someone called us and
asked us to meet Benny Medina. So we went over
and we met him and we said who's on your roster?
And he named al Chi Role. We were like, nah,
Chaka Khan, who was my favorite singer. But I was like,
I don't know how we could do any better than

(57:39):
I feel for you. No, And then he said Karen
White and I remember hearing her on the radio singing
these are the facts of we and I was like, oh,
we could do something with that, right, And so that's
how it worked out. So, yes, we were supposed to
do Leface Records with MCA.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
It wasn't universal yet.

Speaker 7 (58:00):
It was MCA and Irving azof Ran the company and
uh Gerald Buzzby had already departed to start Motown to
take over Motown, and uh Louiel was still there.

Speaker 9 (58:13):
Also, what was Lo Solas Junior? Like just as an executive,
a lot of energy.

Speaker 7 (58:18):
He knew his records like you know, he was a
he was a DJ too, you know, uh, and he
remixed every song that came out, like every single song
that came out at that time, he would remix.

Speaker 5 (58:29):
He would remix Guy records anything.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
I thought he was just slapping his name on those productions.
I didn't realize that he had a crew. We had
a team of people.

Speaker 7 (58:38):
He had an engineer, he had a programmer, and it
was him and he would take all the records that
he liked and would take him in and do the
remix of them, you know, And and sometimes they'd be
harder when he's done with them, like not every time,
but sometimes they would be hard. But he was a
lot of fun, really competitive and at that time and
in black music in LA they were like these three

(59:01):
superstar an R guys. One of them was Liuil Silas Junior.
The other one was John McClain who was at A
and M that's our dream interview. We can't find him
for he's the greatest. And then there was Bennie Medina
who was at Warner right. But these are like the
three stars in town and you know, and they I

(59:23):
became friends with all of them and it was really great.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
But Louis was great man.

Speaker 5 (59:26):
He was fun. He was great, great dude.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
At the time.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
When I first I think when I heard, uh, Donnie
seems to make the announcement that Whitney Houston is going
to work with Elien Face, I got slightly nervous.

Speaker 5 (59:42):
Wow, rightly, because.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
The thing is that, you know, the Whitney train was,
you know, and I'm not saying anything that that isn't facts.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
You know, she definitely it was. It was overkilled.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
We all know about the booing up, the Soul Train
awards and all those things.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Right, And.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
I often wondered if placing her in your hands was
almost a setup for a disaster, because the thing is, like,
the first album sells twelve million, and the second album
sells fifteen million, So there's like, in meeting with Clive Davis,
is he saying to yourself like, don't fuck up, like

(01:00:26):
y'all better give me another ten to fifteen million? And
how how was the general what was the general consistence
when I'm your baby, team night Only did again, I
don't consider it fil It did a solid five million, right,
that's right, But it wasn't what the first two albums were.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
And actually I'm glad it wasn't what the first two
records were. But just can you walk us through that
whole What was the what was the pressure?

Speaker 7 (01:00:51):
I think that didn't feel pressure, first of all, did
not feel any pressure.

Speaker 5 (01:00:55):
Didn't approach it that way.

Speaker 7 (01:00:58):
He was very clear that Whitney had a black problem.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
So his goal.

Speaker 7 (01:01:05):
Wasn't I want to sell fifteen million. His goal was
ingratiate my artists with the black community, please like stand
beside her, work with her, because they don't think she's cool, right,
And so success was simply black people saying, okay with me.

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
She need a jam, right, that's all of us.

Speaker 7 (01:01:26):
That's all of us. And so we didn't feel any pressure.
And we knew we couldn't. I'm being honest. We knew
we couldn't make those kinds of records, like those those
big records that she had, Like well, yeah, okay, I
get that, you know, like we didn't write like that,
we didn't produce like that. I think through a ballot
you could have reached those heights, probably right. But my

(01:01:49):
thing is that in that time in nineteen ninety when
you jack swing is going GGA and you guys are
actually the proprietors. I mean, the entire Don't Be Cool
record is a tutorial and you.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
Jack swing them right, But next to the Eyes of
a Stranger record. I was so confused as to why
a shuffle song was her first statement and claiming her throne.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
But it worked. Yeah, it was perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
Okay, yes, I think it worked because the powers that
be made it work. Everyone knew who La and Babyface were,
everyone knew who Whitney Houston was, so it was like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
And it was a great song. Let's be it was
a great song. Yeah, yeah, like this ship was a.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Jack Okay, but it was just an unusual risky.

Speaker 6 (01:02:41):
Song, Okay, all right, risky.

Speaker 10 (01:02:44):
It was risky, like because could DJs have played that
in the nightclub like that that level of shuffle and
twelve eight meter was like HARKing back to like Luther
Vandroz's Bad Boy having a party, which it's more barbarie.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
You watch out now, like not every little step, not
on our.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Own, not girlfriendad No, No, it's a risk. In the hindsight,
I will say it's the best move because I love
when risks work.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
But damn yo, like whoy.

Speaker 5 (01:03:21):
We also you know what else?

Speaker 7 (01:03:23):
It was we had played ourselves out, like not to
the public maybe, but we had played ourselves out with
that sound, and we we had moved to Atlanta and
we were experimenting because we were trying to refine ourselves
and we couldn't do the down my Heart again. We
couldn't do you know, we just couldn't do it anymore,

(01:03:43):
like we had done it so much on so many songs,
Like every song had had that that kind of groove
on it, and it was it just got tired, you
know for us. And so I'm here Baby to Night
was it was. It was a little bit of us
reinventing us as much as it was trying to give
Whitney Houston something that we thought.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Was to see that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
I would have thought Susan would have probably well, if
Susan didn't have a direct, proper nown attached to it,
I would have thought, like my name is not Susan
would have been.

Speaker 5 (01:04:17):
Right, Yeah, But I think that was what she needed.

Speaker 9 (01:04:19):
It reminded me a lot of Jimmy Jam's story of
like doing with Janet and like, you know, if was
the one on the Janet album, that was the one
that was like Janet the gimme just you know go,
but that's the way Love Golds was the one that's like,
ohle ship, I mean, it's you know, it's a different thing,
you know, And that's what that was for me.

Speaker 8 (01:04:40):
First, Let's turn it around and to be honest, not
to be that radio girl uses old you know logic,
but they both sound like more female records like I'm
Your Baby to Night, it's way more female, just like Janet.

Speaker 6 (01:04:52):
Yeah, it's just it's just heard.

Speaker 5 (01:04:55):
And it was like, I was really proud of it.

Speaker 7 (01:04:56):
I was so proud of that record when we finished it,
because it was we had never done a shuffle, we
hadn't did it with no songs like that, and I
was proud of I was just proud of it, and
it didn't matter to me.

Speaker 5 (01:05:11):
The success of it.

Speaker 7 (01:05:12):
And I know that sounds like I'm being a little
bit frivolous about it, but it was more like, can
we tackle Whitney Houston and do something with Whitney that
hasn't been done already because we can't do what she's
done better than she's done it, So can we do
something that's just our take on it? And we did
that successfully and I was very happy with it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:37):
And don't even lie, I really do like the drum
feels on it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
In hindsight, I think it's a great normalizing. It normalized her,
made her relatable and down the earth, and you know,
because the joints I liked on the first record were
like the Sheep records and that that's what man, and
it didn't happen. It didn't have any sugar pop on it,
which right, I'm glad.

Speaker 7 (01:06:04):
We had a little problem that we never discussed. I
never talked to Kenny about it. But we did Whitney
and we did Michael, and our Michael stuff never came
out because we couldn't nail it. We spent a lot
of time with Michael and we just couldn't nail it.
And we spent a lot of time with Whitney and
we were able to get a little bit off. But

(01:06:26):
for some reason, those big stars, because that wasn't our thing.
Our thing was the artist of our generation, Like that's
what we were great at. If we were great at anything,
it was like, let's work with Bobby Brown, you know,
let's work with Pebbles, Let's do Babyface, let's do you know,
Karen White, Let's do our crew after seven even like

(01:06:47):
our crew. But when we went outside of our circle
and tried to do those superstars, the truth is we
did not nail it. We did not nail it. Now,
we got something off with Whitney and we developed an
in we had of a relationship with her that would
last for many years. But none of those. It didn't
resemble the success that we'd had, not sound wise, not

(01:07:09):
signature wise, not impact wise. And it was the first
and you're right because it was the first time that
you could criticize whether it was actually the right thing.

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
And after that we did Michael.

Speaker 7 (01:07:22):
I mean, we couldn't even get out of the studio
with a song man. And we knew how to write,
and we knew how to produce, but there was something
about being in that room with Michael that we just
were overshooting it and trying too hard and just could
not get any nothing felt natural.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
So how hard was it to walk away from the
dangerous record knowing that damn we couldn't do it.

Speaker 7 (01:07:55):
We just knew it, Like when we went home, when
we left the studio after being in there for a month,
and when we were.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Oh wow, it was a month.

Speaker 5 (01:08:02):
Yeah, and one song.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
No.

Speaker 7 (01:08:05):
We attempted to write several songs and he and he recorded,
He recorded background vocals on one, never finished it, and
he completed one, never mixed it.

Speaker 5 (01:08:18):
The Slave to the Rhythm song right, Slave to the Rhythm.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
Yeah, So did anything happen to those other songs that
were meant for him?

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
No, they're just sitting.

Speaker 7 (01:08:26):
There, sitting somewhere. I think they might be in my vault.
I think it might be in my vault because that's
where I found Slave to the Rhythm that you know,
I because we didn't do Slave to the Rhythm with Sony.
We did that with Michael. We didn't do it as
a higher fight of record label. That was a relationship
just between us and Michael. Uh So we all kept

(01:08:47):
we kept our tapes.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
So was that a teachable lesson in or make you
leary of those A list stars?

Speaker 8 (01:08:53):
Like?

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
Because I'm certain by that point everybody was calling you like,
who did you? Who would you say no.

Speaker 5 (01:08:59):
To a list that?

Speaker 7 (01:09:01):
Well, Kenny became much better at it, right because he
did Madonna successfully and he did Eric Clapton successfully, and so.

Speaker 5 (01:09:11):
He became he nailed it.

Speaker 7 (01:09:13):
I went the other way, which was I only wanted
to work with the artist that was signed that we
were signing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
I didn't want to work with anybody else.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
You signed, You're like, I'm going to manufacture the next
ten millions.

Speaker 5 (01:09:24):
Yes, I'm doing that. So I just went into that mode.

Speaker 4 (01:09:26):
And so what was the realization point where it's like, hey,
office life, like, who does that who wants who? Who
wants to be a rock star and then says, or
did you realize earlier that all of the power and
the money and the success and the magic.

Speaker 7 (01:09:47):
Is behind It wasn't that, you know what it was
for me? It was it was really the love of music, man.
It was because I loved music, not only the music
that Kenny and I made, but when I met people
like Dallas Austin, or when I met like not just
people I work with, but when I would meet other producers,
I would love their music, like I love Jimmy jam

(01:10:10):
and Terry Lewis.

Speaker 5 (01:10:10):
I like my favorite producers.

Speaker 7 (01:10:12):
Leon Silvers is my favorite, you know, amongst my favorite producers.
And when when Nellie Hooper did Sold the Soul Like
I met him and I was like taking and Martinelli,
I met him, McClaren, sayvon t Howison.

Speaker 5 (01:10:24):
I just I love the people that made music.

Speaker 7 (01:10:27):
So I didn't want a career that was based on
the music that I made.

Speaker 5 (01:10:32):
I didn't think I was good enough for that.

Speaker 7 (01:10:34):
I wanted to be a career that I could work
with people that I thought were immensely talented. So my
career decisions had only to do with music. It had
nothing to do with power, it had nothing to do
with money. It was a pure love of Damn. I
love how Dallas does this. I love how Jermaine Dupre

(01:10:55):
does that. Oh my god, these kids organize noise, they
do this, and they do it. Was purely my love
of music and my love of artistry, right, and I
liked the idea of like when we met Pebbles, no
one knew who she was and we made her record
and it worked, and so and when we did Karen White,
no one knew who that was. I mean, she had

(01:11:16):
one song on the radio, but she wasn't famous, so
to speak, or or or our own band, The Deal,
or Babyface or so.

Speaker 5 (01:11:23):
I was so into.

Speaker 7 (01:11:25):
Homegrown and I felt comfortable and homegrown, and I felt
uncomfortable having to measure up two stars.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
But you realized that once you get behind that desk,
your Jedi mind trick knowledge has to go into overdrive.
Because I'm certain by that point, like when you're having
your own label.

Speaker 7 (01:11:49):
You're trying to you got to talk people out of
a lot of bad decisions, right like you you got
to take meetings and you got to remember.

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
Names and go to things like Jack the rapper and whatever,
shake hands and kiss babies, like who would trade?

Speaker 9 (01:12:05):
I think it's for the stage or in your life
like I had, like I was my group little brother
were signed to UH Atlantic, you know years ago and
uh and you know, Julie Greenwall we would have conversations
and you know, she would say, like, you know, we
had to come up with recently. She was just talking
about how at this point in her career she enjoys
kind of being in the stage kind of you know

(01:12:26):
where you are, and just all the OG's in the
game where they're able to kind of sit back and
see the whole big picture and kind of direct from
that standing where it happens is more.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
Yeah, like that's yeah, that's the thing, And I get it.

Speaker 7 (01:12:39):
It makes total sense, you know, versus when you're you know,
in your LA and babyface days where you're actually kind
of in the field, so to speak, like when you're
in the studio you're programming the drums whatever. Now you
get to kind of be the big picture guy in.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
A single all the pieces.

Speaker 7 (01:12:51):
There's one thing I learned about it that I that
I do love and being being an executive and it
had to do with choices about artists.

Speaker 5 (01:13:03):
And records and like the great the ones.

Speaker 7 (01:13:07):
I love that I considered the great Barry Gordy obviously
being number one on that side of the lecture right
as an executive, Clive Davis, I obviously love and respect
Jimmy Ivan, I'm urt again, and there are others, you know.
But what I loved is if they were passionate about something,

(01:13:27):
they could drive it and to your point, right, like
I think you kind of called it manufacturing, but it
was more like, if you have this intuition or this
instinct that this gut that something is the thing, and
to just drive it through, right, we believe it. I
believe that belief thing I liked. I like that I

(01:13:48):
don't see much of that these days. I really don't
like what I see people really having to have data
to back up their decisions. I like the fact that
you know, we did it with our gut, and we
were wrong a lot of times, but we were right
enough times that we are considered successful, right.

Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
And I liked that.

Speaker 7 (01:14:10):
And I liked that particularly for black artists, because black
artists don't often get an opportunity to get a crossover shot,
a shot to the mainstream that is all because like
Whitney Houston is because Clive Davis said this is for
the masses, Rihanna is because I said this is for

(01:14:31):
the masses.

Speaker 4 (01:14:32):
When you signed Rihanna, I mean she's now god status,
like there's yeah, she's literally.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Past She's past the vanguard level.

Speaker 4 (01:14:43):
Like in my mind, Rihanna would have just been like
maybe Janet Jackson level where she just has twenty hits
under her belt, but she's now past that point.

Speaker 5 (01:14:54):
I can't say I knew all that.

Speaker 7 (01:14:55):
Maybe j Brown knew it, maybe Jay Z knew it
right because obviously all of us we're involved together, I
can't say that when.

Speaker 5 (01:15:02):
I first saw her and I heard her first Ponder replay,
Jay Brown brought it to me one night in the office,
was really late at night, and I was like, I
guess that was my reaction.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
Yes, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:15:16):
This is also the period where we were about to
sign to the label. I remember once. I remember once
going to a j show. Rihanna was there and you
signed what's your name?

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
No, no, no, not Rita or.

Speaker 5 (01:15:33):
Marie.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:15:34):
The energy that I felt in the room when I
was backstage was Tierra Marie was going to be out
of the smash.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
And Rihanna got the cute little hit and she'll probably
get on like now.

Speaker 6 (01:15:51):
Her song and playing the mall.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
Yes, I thought she's gonna be on that now.

Speaker 4 (01:15:55):
That's what I call music volume thirty seven, And the
opposite happened.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
Yeah, So how how does it? Again? Is that Jedi
mind tricking where you have to know who your artist is?

Speaker 8 (01:16:08):
Like?

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
How long do you get to absorbing artists to know
what they need in order to make it happen? I
think it's just like okay, so especially when they self
sabotage a lot, right, So I.

Speaker 7 (01:16:25):
Think this first of all, I think this helps answer
one of your other questions. Yes, we really believed in
Tia Marie.

Speaker 5 (01:16:32):
All of us.

Speaker 7 (01:16:33):
She got the Rockefeller chain, all of it. Yeah, it
didn't work. I love her as a person, I saw
her not long ago, but it didn't. It didn't connect
at all. The songs didn't connect, the artists didn't really connect.
And so no, you can't force it. You could, you can,
you can prioritize it, and you can try, but you can't.

(01:16:56):
You can lead the horse to water, but you cannot
make them drink. Right, it doesn't. It didn't work. Rihanna
on the other hand, I grew I grew into it personally,
Like I remember when it hit me. I remember really
well when it hit me, sitting in the house one
night and listening to the demos and you know, Jay Brown,

(01:17:18):
Ti and those guys, they were making her records like,
and they were giving them to me to listen to.
And I remember sitting at home listening to Good Girl
Gone Bad and all these songs. I came back and said,
wait a minute, guys, she called an album that what
should call an album? Good Girl Gone Bad?

Speaker 5 (01:17:37):
Right?

Speaker 7 (01:17:38):
And it was like it was a statement. Anyway, my
point is it? All of a sudden hit me that
she was it. And then she did this song called
so Os and I watched the video for so Os
and I took it home. I told my wife Erica.
I was like, this girl is about to be the

(01:17:59):
biggest star in the if not the world, watch this video.
And we watched the video and it was like, Okay,
I get it. And then she made Umbrella. And when
she made Umbrella, then do I know Do I have
an instinct? Do I have an intuition in those moments? Yes,

(01:18:23):
because I knew that was out of here.

Speaker 5 (01:18:25):
I was like yep, she's gone right.

Speaker 4 (01:18:27):
Okay, you get a song like Umbrella, you get jay
Z on that song. Can he walk us through the
process of what it takes to make that song connect
with an artist, Like, how do do you play it?

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
Who do you play it for? First?

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
Who gets there?

Speaker 6 (01:18:44):
Did the dream just bring it in the dreams processed?

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:18:47):
So no, no, no, I mean creatively, I'm talking about
once you have album in hand, how do you make
sure that people around the world know what Umbrella is?

Speaker 5 (01:18:58):
At the time? It's certainly it's there.

Speaker 7 (01:19:01):
There are more avenues now, it's the game has gotten
pretty complicated, and it's and it's flooded, flooded with stuff
right from all these platforms and all this d I
Y and every very low barrier to entry.

Speaker 5 (01:19:17):
So there's a lot more stuff than there are than
than there is special stuff, uh in the game. Back
in those days, a record executive can make a record
of priority and and and put it on radio all
radio and people will hear it.

Speaker 7 (01:19:39):
And video video mattered, right, and MTV matter, and b
E T matter and v H one matter right, and
so all of our all of our avenues and our platforms. Uh,
we had enough influence that we could get it a shot.
It still had to take off. But our job is
just to get it in front of the people, and

(01:20:01):
that's what we did. We got it in front of
the people and it took off.

Speaker 4 (01:20:04):
So does that also mean that your relationship has to
be intact with I don't know who like ran Empty
or Viacom at the time, or your relationship with the
whoever runs Clear Channel.

Speaker 7 (01:20:18):
Yes, yeah, it absolutely means that. Yes, yeah, absolutely, those
contacts are golden.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
They really are.

Speaker 7 (01:20:25):
I mean we try to always keep them and even
with the changing of guards, right we we're right there too,
you know, hail the new King, held the new Queen.
But the relationships are golden. But it's also the artist
relationships with these people and with these gatekeepers, you know,
they also have to have their own They have to

(01:20:47):
do the work. We can't do the work for an artist,
and an artist has to do that, you know. So
it's you knowing Tom, you know Poeman, It's you knowing
John Sykes, and it's it's you know what I mean,
it's it's you Stephen Hill or Calderona, MTV or Jessic
Collins or whoever. In my it's you knowing everybody also, uh,

(01:21:07):
and that has a lot of I think that has
a lot of weight.

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
So even now, like, does it get tiring to have
to know names and what they represent?

Speaker 6 (01:21:18):
And how do you keep up?

Speaker 5 (01:21:20):
La? It's exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
I'm the worst at that, sho Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:21:24):
Exciting though not love that. I absolutely love the challenge
of that, like I and and my memory is horrible.
I mean, you can ask me anything about the eighties.
I remember it, but anything from like twenty eleven forward
I barely remember. I don't know why, but I really
liked the idea of it. I mean, once I embraced
being an executive, I did have a goal, and my

(01:21:44):
goal was to be the best.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Yeah, you know it, so check it.

Speaker 4 (01:21:50):
La only wanted to do about an hour, but you
know that we couldn't let you go. So once we
got him rolling, he just wouldn't stop talking. So basically
that's it for part too. And I want you to
check back for our third and final QLs episode with
Eli Red. And while you're at it, definitely check out
our qs episodes with Babyface as well.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
You know, go ahead at hand, all right, see y'all
next time.

Speaker 5 (01:22:12):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
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