QLS Classic: Lenny Kravitz (Part 1)

Music legend Lenny Kravitz shares soulful stories from his music-filled childhood and his sonically-retro, "carpet-y" sound.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Suprema contain languages some of our listeners may
find offensive. Listener discretion is advised. Supremo sub Frema roll
call sub prima Suprema roll call sub prima sub prima
roll call Suprema Deep Were you Romeo Blue Fans? Yeah,

(00:25):
Dick the scene. Yeah matter. Girl in Toronto named Juliette
Green Subrema roll call Subrema sub prima roll call. My
name is Fonte and I'm a winner. Check out my
new hairstyle from my man's centner God Suma road call Sugar. Yeah,

(00:57):
I'm your fantasy. Yeah sure guy, Yeah, I taste so sweet.
Bring my road unpaid Bill, Yeah, so much to do? Yeah,
shout out to Lenny Kravitz. Yeah, my second favorite jew.

(01:27):
There's only one thing on which to focus. Yeah, boss
Bill wants to know. Yeah, why did everybody hate circuits?
Roll car? Road Car? It's like, yes, so fresh, so clean.
Lenny Kravitz is here. Oh yeah, and I'm black velveteen R.

(01:59):
My name is Lenny. Yeah, I just woke up. Yeah,
it's gonna be really hard to get me to spoke
up Roma roll Wait, I gotta say something real quick. Uh,

(02:28):
Ladies and gentlemen, let it just let it be known that, yeah,
was not dressed like this door Mike Burbiglia. She didn't
have that gold velvet on. No, not for she has
gold velvet and she gold velvet. Team. I'm going out laterally. Okay,

(02:50):
this is for all my ladies. That was day was
where I was sitting. Okay, there you go. Yeah, girl
was sitting out tonight. Yeah. I was gonna say, they
got to come out every once and again every it is.
It's atrees l and gentleman, welcome to another episode of course,

(03:13):
Love Supreme. Uh. Actually, you know what I oh our
guest today and apology because I never truly give him
enough credit for his his influence and his artistry, and
I believe that he has truly kept the the concept

(03:36):
of what they once called in the eighties retroneuvo. I
think Nelson George's coin that term retroneuvo slash instant vintage
vibes alive long before the Daptone Empire or the cats
that La cast from break Astro or you know anyone

(03:59):
that's built empires off of keeping vintage vibes a lot
Mark Rosson yea, yeah, yeah, every everyone you know this
man was first so influential, without no doubt, even at
this day and age, he's probably still the coolest dude
to walk on the planet. Some thirty years after his debut,

(04:20):
UH Let Love Rule UH came into our lives and
we want to welcome thank you, brother Leonard. Wait, what's
your middle names? Albert Leonard Albert Kravit. That's what he
look I got his uncle name that tea Leonard Albert Kravice.
So to to Bill and Steve. Yes, Now do you

(04:43):
feel that the playing fields even, it's like a little
more even? This is a very balanced that's right. You
know the host is neutual. So I'm just saying your hands,

(05:05):
but I mean I'm neutral. I'm just saying that, you know,
we these two rarely. This is the most words they've
spoken in like twelve combined episode totally. Anyway, n How
how are you doing, Pale? I'm good man. I'm gonna
try and be as professional as possible on that. Like,

(05:25):
I don't know you, So I want to explain my
road call real quick, because that was a mess. First
of all, your your timing was like that that was me.
I feel like you did that on purpose though, no No,
I was trying to sink sugar your song and I
sucked it all up. Okay, so that's that coming in

(05:47):
later and fix that. No, we can't. We can't fix
any road calls. But sorry, Yeah that's bad. So how's
it going, man? It's going really well. Man. I feel
I feel rate creatively. UM, I just had an amazing
time making this record, raised vibration, and I feel like

(06:10):
I'm where I'm supposed to be, which, like you said,
after thirty years, it feels really good too. I feel
like you're still being completely authentic to yourself, and that
you're still excited to make music. UM, having amazing experiences

(06:31):
like like the first ones were, you know. Um, so
you're saying there was a time period in which you
didn't know if you were coming or going or or
well right before making this album, Um, because I've done
so much and I've gone too many places musically, I

(06:52):
really wasn't sure who I was at that moment, what
I had to say, where I was going stylistically with
the music. Um. A lot of people were giving opinions, UM,
which is good about what they thought I should be doing,
and UM, try this, try that work with this one.

(07:14):
Do this. You never worked with the producer, you know,
you always do everything yourself, you know, ah, and and
so and and this whole thing about remaining relevant, which
I learned a lot about because it really doesn't mean anything.
Uh well to me, Um, being relevant is being true

(07:36):
to who you are at any given time. Um, And
what was I gonna go do? I was gonna go
make a trap record, you know, like not that I
don't dig it, but you know what I'm saying, like
try to be that guy, like okay, let me go,
let me go be hip, and so you know you could, right, So, Um,

(08:01):
it's weird. So you're saying that that you were met
with quasi indifference about Strut because you played No, I
had not to do it. Strut like that was gone.
It was after that, was after the tour, after the
whole thing, And I knew I was going to make
a record, and I had no idea what I was
going to do. And so after trying this, trying that,

(08:22):
doing this, doing that, listening to everybody writing all these
tunes and that I was trying to write, um they
were okay, um, but I wasn't feeling it like that.
And so I just got really quiet, closed the studio door,
went back to just live an island life, being quiet

(08:44):
and just being out in nature. And I woke up
one morning, like four in the morning with a song
in my head Randy the studio started putting it down,
and the floodgates just opened. You know. I had to
I had I had to wait. I had to wait
to receive what it is that I was being given.
So when you're in your your island and the Bahamas, uh,

(09:12):
is there a pressure like every morning that you wake
up when you're like, Okay, where's my inspiration coming from?
Because usually when people live and beautiful isolated places like that,
usually the purposes is to connect with the land and
receive ideas absolutely and just live. So I'm not on
the schedule. I'm not you know, like I have to

(09:34):
go in every day or I just wait until I
feel it. And once I feel it, and once these
dreams start and the music starts coming out, then it
just keeps coming and then I'm just in there like
for months, just working. You know. Yeah, So where were
you born? I was born in bed stuy Brooklyn Troop
and Coski Hoscot Troop Avenue three. I used to live.

(10:03):
It was me j Mike Tyson. You know that crew
you were in the Marcy Project, the same neighborhood. Okay,
I see, Um in general, Well, I mean i've I've
I've seen interviews before where just like you know, you
were in two Worlds, Black and well you know, yeah,

(10:26):
album was also called a Black and White World. So, um,
but what was I mean to be a child in
the sixties in Brooklyn? Uh? Was this a well received idea?
Especially you've been before, born before. I don't know what

(10:48):
you're I'm not trying to fish for your age. You
look like twenty years ago because you still you had
the hair style from when you first started. Really, but
I know there was a six and the third digit
of your birth year. So I'm just trying to figure
out in terms. I mean, I really caught the seventies.
I really caught the early seventies by the time I
was really we're late sixties two. But um, I mean

(11:11):
the first things I was hearing was Jackson five. Okay,
so seventies. So how how what was your childhood like
the Yeah, my mom at the time was doing theater.
She was in a theater company called the Negro Ensemble.
Company and where so many of our great African American

(11:36):
actors and actresses come from. Um, so she was doing that.
She was a secretary by day at NBC over Rockefeller Plaza.
Oh yeah, I grew up in that building and uh
yeah she she was a secretary for this guy named
Ed Stanley. I forget what his position was. My dad

(11:57):
was a producer. He started out as a page became
a producer. They met there. They met at thirty Rock.
They met at thirty Rock. Damn, so you're a thirty
rock baby, Yes, they met. They met at thirty Rock.
Uh did he ever say how how I wanted they
caught her? But that feels disrespectful? Yes, how did he

(12:20):
catch your eyes? He was very much into the arts,
very much into music, very much into jazz. Um Like,
he produced the Paganini show that was on there, and
he was working with all these jazz musicians, hanging around
with Louis Armstrong and all these folks, okay, and going

(12:41):
to the theater. And he was that. He was that cat.
And you know, he was kind of smooth, he was
kind of he has he has some swagger. He was Ukrainian,
you know, Russian jew. Uh Now, Ukraine gets specific. Before
it was all Russia. Um, and he went after my
mom and they were dating and and uh and uh yeah,

(13:06):
then they got married. Russian Jews don't for their swagger.
Shout out to Russian you know what I'm saying. All
of us are yeah annotations now. And my mom was older,
she was like in her no, but I mean she
was like later thirties and um or late thirties almost.

(13:32):
I remember when they met. Yeah, my mom hadn't been married.
My mom was like she was holding out, so waiting
for a real you know, waiting for a Russian Jew,
right man, get on your mind. And they were. They
were very friendly. You know who Bobby Short is. Yeah,

(13:53):
Bobby Bobby shut you usuld sing at the Cafe car.
I haven't like New York. There you go. That's my ship.
He's he's he's a brother who sang like Rogers and
Heart and in Ellington and Cole Porter and Cafe Society singing.
He wasn't that well, he's probably too young. I'm like,
he sang that, but my father is a child. Oh

(14:19):
that's him. He sang that. Charlie. Yeah. I think it
was Lauren Hutton running around. He was a child, and
she was anyway, they were, they were. They were all
like a crew, and you grew up around Bobby Short. Yeah.
Used to drive Bobby home after the gigs. When I
got older, used to wait because I used to always

(14:39):
go back like when I like when I was a kid.
I was going there since I was five years old.
And then when I got older, you know, I still
went love anytime I was in New York, I went
to see Bobby and I would go to the second
show and I'd drive him home. But anyway, the point
was where you have I'm sure you have. You have

(15:01):
for the longest I've known you, all of your your life.
Foot notes. Oh, by the way that it's a mind
blowing ship. I'm gonna skip a little bit ahead, but
you're you're Sherman Hemsley. Story of the first time you
smoke weed? Whatever? Yeah, was with Sherman people people, I've

(15:24):
heard stories. You know. He was so different from his character.
Used it had like an acid, I tried to explain.
He used to drive in He had this silver Cadillac
uh Seville, the box one first, and he had this
this this Mexican brother named Ralph had a big old
Curly Afro used to drive him and that car would

(15:46):
pull on the lot. All you can see it was
like teaching chong. All you can see was smoke and
he was either jamming yes or the Grateful Dead Santana
I tried. Okay, So the members of Gentle Giant manage.
All right, which member of Heart is not married to
what's his name from walling Stone Heart? Nancy? You mean, yeah, alright,

(16:12):
so which one Anne is married to? Cameron Crowe? Right,
I believe ye? So yes, So Nancy, her managers are
members of Gentle Giant. And at the time when she
came on the Tonight Show, and uh, she really didn't
know who Gentle Giant was. And so she's just happened

(16:35):
to mention like, yeah, my management, you know, they used
to be a band together. Now they're you know, they're
management and something like that. D're and something some giants
something something gentle or gentle Giants. She said, yeah, what
you heard? Those guys and we lost our collective minds
because we're a lot of us are from the school
with Jay Dilla, and he samples a lot of like

(16:55):
prog rock and art rock stuff and got us into
all that stuff. So early. Yes, that was Sherman stuff man, right,
And so Sherman used to always play like you know,
like when you listen to the radio on a black sitcom,
you're supposed to like rerun. Used to always dance with Teddy,

(17:16):
what's happening, what's happening? Get up? Get never noticed that.
I never noticed that. Anytime we run dance, it's like
the fake version, the fake version, and just like yeah,
and then the and then a good times. It was
Jimmy Horne's uh let's do it, listen, let's dance as
the floor anyway. But Sherman Hemsley, whenever he's jamming, it's

(17:41):
like g it's like something seven nineteen. That was his thing, man.
And you know you always saw him in that VP
suit with the gray hair. You know they put that
gray hair, and he he didn't have gray hair then.
And he'd be wearing some tattered blue jeans flares with
with the with the yes tidy t shirt and and

(18:03):
he'd be smoking some good but in that dress from
straight up hippie. And I'm like, you know eleven, and
uh my mom was watching me, like what you're doing
going up in Sherman's room. So yeah, So are you
saying that he was your your hippie shaman or your

(18:24):
he was he was that cat on the set. You know,
I'm gonna be just like it's crazy. Yeah, it's azing, alright,
So back to your chos talking about by short. So
my mom said to Bobby side, that's my dad's name,

(18:45):
side right or Irving? Yeah, middle names, Saul. I mean
it's as Jewish as it gets. Some more Saul saw Kravitz.
It was my rabbi's name. And uh, my mom said, sigh,
asked me to marry him. So Bobby looked at her

(19:09):
and said, she said, what do you think I should do?
He said, I don't see nobody else asking nice. But
well he got a point, and I guess the same thing.
It's kind of crazy because my mom was all that,
you know. But anyway, they got together and I'm sitting here.

(19:33):
Was she the fashion queen that she was on TV? Amazing? Yeah?
She was? She was that lady from the yeah oh yeah. Side. Note,
this is weird to tell you like three million people. No, no, no,
I try to tell you last time as a surprise,
but you gotta have you ever met Apollonia Coterio y no,

(19:58):
we spoke because she has told you for me. Yeah,
she had the pictures for me. She toldever, No, she's
got the pictures. Do you remember the episode when the
Jefferson shot uh in Hawaii? Yeah, the whole week? Yeah. Yeah,
So apparently she took like a bunch of polaroids and

(20:20):
had photo books but left it behind, and uh, Apollonia
just happened to be scrounging through like, you know, vintage
stores or whatever, and saw found my mom's pictures but
in att yeah, at some sort of like five and
dime thrift store things. So she yo, what any of
her clothes still around? Not for enohing. I just wonder, Zoe,

(20:52):
you get that joint tailor you cut it off a half.
I assume that your mom was like five eleven at least,
like yeah, yeah, that means it's not okay. There's a
couple of pieces of it always got like and they
should be in a museum somewhere, not for nothing too.
If they can't, f Zoe, they should be a museum.
They should have be in the Msonian in d City.
I think we're all everyone's looking everyone's looking at me.

(21:14):
What I'm sorry? I am a lack anyway, I didn't
you really think I didn't know Zoe that small? Small too,
but I let some things out. No, but I mean, dude,

(21:35):
like trust me. So he used to sleep on his couch.
I remember that he had a long time in Philly,
was in band and whatnot. For real, Lenny and Zoe,
you are single hand? Did we responsible for all of
the French toast jokes? Y'all got with the oils that
I know, like coconut oil. For my two years, Zoe

(21:55):
wouldn't tell me the vanilla oil that she uses. There's
a vanilla, now, there's a vanilla. But then at your house,
you know, okay, another tea in my moment, you know,
like when when you're wait, what do you say? Said
she smell like you? Because you know she was first okay,
got it? She wouldn't tell me. I hoped was first vanilla.

(22:20):
I got serious, and then no, and then uh, she
would never tell me. And then uh I went to
that cookout at your spot in Miami and in the
bathroom I saw the bottle there, that's right, and you
started using it well, But then but then I went

(22:45):
this dude smelled like a vanilla cake. I remember, But
you still you're not spraying yourself with poopo re right,
because it was alright, but like these little were the
silver bottles, bottles, they were these little bottles, right, they
came from France, right exactly. Yeah, but she left it
there so I took a photo of it and then

(23:06):
I ordered like forty two gallons of it it at Costco.
Sack legit mad at me for like Jack and her
swag like that was her thing, right, Yeah, she got
mad at me, so she stopped using it. But could
be girls and all that stuff, like like you know,

(23:26):
I had a girlfriend in Paris that used to wear
it and she was a little girl. She she loved
that oil. That that's where that oil Worksbusters, I'm sorry,
this is just rock that oil smell good today. Second
of all, do you have like a favorite smell thing
or do you just rocking straight? Lenny? I'm just because

(23:47):
we were talking about smells. I just wanted to yeah
you personally, yeah, straight, n it's straight, Len a lot
of a lot of the time saying we're talking about No,
we were talking about the oils. So anyway, can we
we went from French toast anyway, man, let me get

(24:08):
to music. At least. So wait, do you have any
siblings or you the only child? I have two half
sisters from my dad's first marriage. Okay, where are they?
They sing? It's like speed dating tonight. Are they older sisters? Right? Yes?

(24:32):
Just you need that in your life, older than me,
older beautiful Jewish women. Okay, I need them in my life.
So how did you get interested in music? It was
all around me? I uh okay. First concerts. First concert

(24:53):
was Jackson five Master Square Garden with the Commodore's opening
before they were called the Commodore's they had. I remember
talking to Lionel about it. He's like, we didn't even
have a name. Then they had some other name. They
were going under Saw James at the Apollo when I
was like six, Saw then started going. You know. I
saw Duke Ellington at the Rainbow Room. Um. I used

(25:16):
to hang with him because my parents were close with him.
I remember being at a sound check sitting on his
lap while he played. It was actually that was my
fifth birthday, um, because they played Happy Birthday to me. Whoay,

(25:36):
so Miles, all that stuff, Lionel Hampton, Sara Van, you know,
going to the opera, going to the ballet, going to
Shakespeare in the Park, going to off Broadway and you know,
Black Theater and Broadway. So all this stuff was around me.
My parents used to take me out with them, which
was really cool, whenever I could go, whenever they saw fit.

(26:00):
Took me to parties, they took me to clubs, they
took me to go see stuff. So I saw these
people before I was ten years old. I'd seen like everybody,
one of the few kids allowed in the studio before
that that I didn't make. I I don't have any
pictures like with Liza Minnelli. And but were you usually

(26:23):
the loan child in those situations where there's like maybe
a couple of other kids and you might see no
excuse me, So when did you discover that you had
a voice? Not until well, okay, so when I was eleven,

(26:43):
when my mom got the Jeffersons, we moved to l
a And yeah, I'm sorry, the building actually Drummer Trivia,
the building that's on I forget eighty something in third
Grady Tate lived in that building. What and he was
a friend of ours. So before the Jefferson's we used

(27:03):
to go over. In fact, Grady Tait gave me my
first drumsticks and drum pad. Yeah, gave me my first
little Remo drum pad with a little gray rim. Yeah,
he gave me my first sticks and pad. But he
used to live in that building that was the Jefferson's building.
Everyone's like Grady Tate about to say just help help,
they help the baby. He's noted jazz, you know, God, studio,

(27:29):
drummer everything. If you remember, see, I'm bringing up stuff,
remember schoolhouse, frock that stuff. There was a song called
Naughty Number nine. Naughty Number nine was gratty tap. Yeah,
he's also yeah got he also sing. I asked questions
for me, but I also asked for the people because

(27:50):
I asked the question. I wonder why too, because Mike
were big Leia didn't you were like twelve hoodies. I
don't know what you're talking about anyway, so to my voice.
So we moved to l A, which was a culture
shock because I was getting ready to go into the

(28:11):
sixth grade and now I'm in Santa Monica and it's
like no one on the street, and I'm like, where
the hell am I Little white kids with blonde hair
on skateboards going by at it and it was very
new to me anyway, she wanted to keep me off
the street because she was going to be very busy
doing this, doing this show. So there was a boys

(28:31):
choir that a friend of her son was in called
the California Boys Choir, and that boys choir at the
time was the second rated boys choir in the world,
next to the Vienna Boys Choir. So my mom had
me audition. She shot, I'll be great, would keep me
off the street. I learned about music and anyway, I
ended up auditioning, not really understanding what was going on,

(28:54):
got in, got trained, and then graduated into the concert
choir and then ended up but my first concert was
Hollywood Bowl opening night of the season, Maller third Symphony
l a Philharmonic Um. I ended up singing on albums
with zuber Mada and the first record expected my first

(29:15):
studio session was doing the Maller third, the same one
but with m zuber Mada. So I sag. I had
this classical career. So I had this classical voice, and
then my voice changed. When I was like fifteen, left
the choir and then went to high school and I
was just really playing guitar, bass and drums always yeah,

(29:40):
but I didn't want to be the singer, and I
just didn't I wanted to be I just want to
be the guitar player or the bass player, the drummer.
I wanted to be just chilling on the side, you
know who, guy in the glasses. And then I ended
up in a band, and then something happened with the
singer and they all looking at me, and then I

(30:00):
ended up being the singer. And I was very insecure
about it, for it wasn't then of the band wave. Yeah,
what what period was this? Oh? This is like uh,
this is like eighty really so it's like Rick James
Jackson's Prince, you know, Cameo, you know black Beard? Yes, yeah,

(30:26):
Scorns sent two keyboard players, drums, get two guitars, bass,
you know the whole thing. Anyone notable in the group.
Did you ever get in the studio with him? We
did some demos, but this was all like really early stuff.
Do you know where those demos are? Do you know
what those guys are? Albert Cravit, do you know where

(30:49):
those demos are? Look at me like that? Are you
fiving on right now? You know what? I know? If
anybody finds something gonna be you so that was your
first band. Yeah, it was like because I was just
I was really I moved out when I was fifteen,
and I was just like, wait, how does one do that?

(31:12):
Um another drumming story. Okay, I was fifteen years old,
living in l A, living in my parents house. My
dad and I were like having a hard time button heads.
There was a Buddy rich concert at Disneyland. Disneyland was
having a jazz series, so that night was going to
be Buddy Rich and then separately Freddie Hubbard and a

(31:33):
few other folks, and so I wanted to go see Disneyland.
Say what, Freddy Hubbard? It did? Man? Yeah, that's what
it's like inside Sugar Steve's head all the time. You
just summed it up. So I told my dad, are
you thinking of cursing out? Like? I mean, that could

(31:55):
go so many different ways in front of cheering, so
a sorry, sorry, no no. So I told my dad
I want to go see Buddy rich because you know,
I want to see him. My dad was like, you
went out last night. I was like, yeah, but tonight
I let see Buddy Richard. We got in this big
argument and that was the first time I did that,
Like Richard pryor thing where Richard Pryer talks about getting

(32:17):
into a fight with his dad and standing up and
I'll kick your ass. I'm not afraid of you anymore.
All that, and I was shaking and my dad was
like ex Green Beret, like, oh crazy jumping out of
airplanes with knives and machine guns. I'm stand up. He's
looking at me like I'm crazy. And that was it.

(32:41):
So it was like, you know, you live, you live
under my roof, under my rules, or you go. And
I went was Buddy rich Worth. There was some mean
press rolls, baby, I mean wait. So at the end

(33:01):
of the night where I got Buddy and Fronday, I'm like,
oh shout, I ain't gonna where to go. And my
mom was freaking out. Remember there's no cell phones, you
know what I mean. So but I stayed out. That
was it. I was in the street, I was in
people's couches. I slept on studio floors. I stopped. I

(33:24):
stopped in a car for the four Pinto for a while.
Did it ever cross your mind to go stay with
the Jefferson's and that in that building in New York?
I just got de Luxe apart exactly place. We wait,
I mean, so were you were your pre or your

(33:44):
fourier years? Were they independent? Yeah? I mean after I left,
I know, even before like what because even the idea
of going out like probably like I'm going that usually
like you know, father's all of that. You you ain't
telling me you going out? You're gonna ask? I was respectful,

(34:07):
but that's at that point. We just but what was
what was out there for you? I haven't talked to
any black celebrity that was like coming of age in
the late seventies in early eighties? So what is out
there for you? In Los Angeles during this time? Man?
It was wild. There's no House of Blues, There's no

(34:28):
like what Sunset Boulevard looking like? Uh? Well, there was
the Roxy. What was your hangout? What was your like?
I mean I hung out of people's houses. I hung
out it at uh I was? I was friends with
with Kennedy Gordy also known as Rockwell, we went to
high school together. I was gonna say, do you have
any Apollo connections? Not Apollo when I met? All right,

(34:56):
so okay to us? Now I went to a show, right,
I went to a Jo show? If Benny came in
and nobody knows about Polo right when y'all a deep connoisseurs. Yeah,
so when I mentioned it, Benny's eyes got like, how
do you know? And shut then up and then the

(35:19):
dance moves. I knew. I knew Benny when he was
sixteen because I was going to Beverly. I was in
the same class as Kennedy, as Rockwell and then it's
older older brother Carry and Benny was berries gopher assistant

(35:42):
when he had the afro on the whole thing. Benny,
Benny was his the diddy to Andre Rolle. Yeah, yeah,
that was that was big. Yeah. And uh, because you
said the second you said wave, I said, damn, that's
almost like one step removed away from Apollo. Yeah, and
so it was. But you gotta tell So I used

(36:06):
to find I used to be up at Barry's house
a lot. You know, you'd wake up in the morning
and Jermaine be sitting there and Diana and you know,
Marvin and everybody. I mean, it was, however, are you
getting at this point? Like and did you know like
the magnitude I had never seen, man. I grew up
in New York, you know, in apartments, I had never

(36:29):
seen anything like these people were living in Like I
didn't even know what existed. Get his own arcade, pinball
machines and video games and you know, VHS players all
over the place, rooms and cars and instruments and you know,
I'd never seen anything like that in my life. It
was a bugout. But yeah, that was one of the

(36:50):
places I used to hang. And then I stayed with people,
you know, living on couches and you know all that
kind of thing. So, but the scene, it was a
lot of clubs, clubs, studios, people's houses, studios. Clubs were good. Then. Yeah,
well I know that, you know, the the hard rock

(37:12):
heavy metal scene that was formed on Sunset Boulevard at
least like for the Motley Cruise and all that those.
But where would the progressive black people hang? Like? Where
were they allowed? What spaces were they allowed to be in? There?
Weren't clubs like where those bands really? Well, actually there
were some clubs on Cranshaw. There was one called the
Total Experience. All you know who I am, right, they

(37:39):
know more than I do. Okay, I'm just I'm Ronald McDonald.
These guys are grim rock, you know. Croy As a
middle question, so when he's when he said that, what
did that trigger with y'all too? O Son Simmons was
the owner of Total Experience. Simmons that all that the

(38:04):
club was also where they shot the Dold Mic I
actually did a gig in the toll Experienced once. Yeah.
Really what was that club like? Because everybody, man, it
was just that's for all the our House of Blues, Yes, yes,
And then there was a jazz place on the brand
Washington called the Parisian Room where Arthur Price sock used

(38:28):
to you know, Arthur Price, don't do that because you
know what, when you look at me, you don't look
at Bill. It's kind of special. That's gonna like, that's
gonna help her out the lower brown commercials that New
York's not the only one that doesn't know that because

(38:50):
Bill Sherman, you didn't not don't know tonight. You don't
know tonight. Let it be low. She wasn't commercial. But
in the in the seventies there was a commercial side
side Lenny's bringing out all the assists on the on
the side of mirror stories. So another reason why television

(39:13):
was taken away from me is whenever uh, we would
have Gingerbrell for dinner and Canada d comal. Yeah. I
would get a mug and then pour my candidate drives
just so that the yeah it can flow over. There's
must be a reason why we know each other. I

(39:35):
did the original reason why television, But then you don't
step up to like Martin Nelly's Oh that was like
the Champagne of parents. Stopped that real quick. No, I'm
fortunately mom, I'm sorry about this, Mom, I gotta tell
this story. The main reason why TV was taking out

(39:57):
my life was over Hawaiian punch commercials because if you're
a three year old, an impressionable right, right, So basically
maybe it's a racist commercial because like the wine native
guy would go to the tourists and say, how about
nice and wine punch? He's like sure, and he right.

(40:20):
And so one day I told my mom's mind, come here,
I want you to say sure, to ask you. She's like, huh,
just say sure, okay, okay? How about Mom said sure?
And and then no more. TV got the fact that
you're still alive ever doing that to a black moment.
I almost want to beat you myself. Dog mom, she wait,

(40:44):
stop all those stuff too late? You didn't get the
phone corner of the hot wheel track straight in the
straight track. The girl, Wait a minute, are you saying

(41:05):
if roxy roper, use a strap because that would make
me happy. But her favorite thing, we're not even get
to Mama's in like can ben his weight telling us
what her weapon of choice was on her kind of

(41:28):
I'm sorry rose her kind of mind. Fun one was
like she had this big um brush like a board
that wood, yeah, and with that handle, and she'd had
me come she said come here, and she said put
out your hand and I had to put knuckles up,

(41:51):
put out your put it out, put your hand. Yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, yeah,
but wait, you actually said something before you got to wait,

(42:12):
which was you said on Crunchhall. Now the thing is Crunshaw.
That okay, that's where black focus. This is cshaw. I
mean it's still real. But that was really real. Yeah?
But was it cool? I mean did you feel I mean,

(42:33):
I'm when gang had activity was heavy in l A.
Were you cool then? I used to go to the
drag races. I used to do all that stuff. Man,
you went, Yes, I was out there, man, I was
in the street. My mom would have had a heart attack.
That was everywhere. But why, Like because I was free

(42:57):
and I was hanging out with all kinds of people,
and I'd meet people and you up in their house
that night. You don't even know who they are, you
know what I mean? Like I was like that you
were that trusting I was, Yeah, I mean I had
I thought I had a good sense of who folks were.
And I and I, you know, I would meet people,
then you'd like sleeping in their house, like knowing them

(43:17):
for like a night, you know. Like but like I
never had a problem. You never had a problem. You know.
My parents were just like not into me hanging with
strangers or they got to know my mom, wou wouldn't
have been dude, she she didn't know, you know, so
you got your But then I would I would yourself
fift I would go see her, like I would go

(43:38):
to the set. I go to the Jefferson's, to the tapings.
I go see her, you know, go watch the show.
I didn't. I mean, I still was. She worried about
you completely, but like I don't know if he's gonna
make it. And but now when Zoe turned fifteen, and
I looked at it and I was like, oh yeah,
I see now I see. I mean no, I mean
Zoe didn't leave anything, but like I was gonna says,

(43:58):
he's rather conservative. If she didn't leave till she was
eighteen when she went to school, you know. Yeah, but
she just never struck me as like, I mean, she
could have easily went down the low hand route she was,
but she believe me they were coming for her, really
they were coming for but no, she she held it together.

(44:20):
She just I was impressed the fact that she just
saw that as corny, you know what I mean, she
just like that's corny. I was like, oh, ship, you
taught me something m like because she's like like I'll
be DJ somewhere and she's like, I'm tired, like grandma.
That's how I see her as my grandmother. So how
did you How did Zaro enter your life? And how

(44:43):
interest Okay, well before the moment when everyone so, First
of all, I met Zoro on the lawn of Beverly
Hills High. He went there too, No, he did not
go there, but he was trying to meet people. He'd
come down from from Oregon and he wanted to meet people.

(45:06):
So he was we had this big lawn looked like
a country club at Beverly High, and uh, he had
this boom box, and he had a sister who was
dating a very wealthy Middle Eastern man. So this guy
would would buy him suits, silk suits and watches and things.
So he was like all he was all g Q

(45:29):
down on the lawn Beverly Hills High with a drum pad,
a pair of sticks, a boom box, playing earth Wind
and Fire and jamming to the earth Wind and Fire.
So of course I come out of class and I
see this dude on the lawn like sitting there playing Jupiter,
you know, And I was like, who's this cat funky?

(45:51):
So I went up to talk to him, and that's
how everything started. Now, Buddy Rich, that was me and
Zoro formerly known as Dan Donnelly. Okay, that's his real name,
Dan Donaldy. So he was Dan. So Dan was the
one that drove me to Disneyland. That we went. We
went to the concert together and Buick Regel cream colored

(46:16):
Buick regal Um. Was he what the apparency of him
as the bad influence and you know he was he
was a good kid. No, no, he he was Danny.
Now Zoro happened because I got him the audition for
New Addition? Wait, how that happened? Okay, this all leads
all this connects. Now you Zoro is a connection here

(46:38):
because I was trying to get record deals and doing
my thing, and at the time Gerald Busby was trying
to sign me and he was over M c A
after he had left A and M Records and so
him and Luill Silas and all them cats, and they're like,
we're trying to put a band together for New Addition.
Do you know a drummer? I said, I know a

(46:59):
great drummer. I called Dan. Yo, they're having a new Edition, Uh,
drum audition. Here's the address. But he went he got
the gig now, so now he's playing New Edition. I'm
going to see them play shows. I think the first
one I saw was at is there is there around Amphitheater, Westbury.

(47:21):
I went to see a new Edition and U t
FO opened Yo. The U t FO killed it. They
all killed it. So I'm going to see shows when
I can. Now they're playing Universally app the Theater in
Los Angeles. I go to see. I go with I
go with Rockwell we went together to the concert and

(47:46):
that's where I met Lisa bone yep, because she let
me started. Yes, yes, waitnute, do you know who can
you ask Bill this squeeze questions? Because my comment denominated

(48:10):
it's more fun with you. Do you know he's always
the drummer. He would be the quest lover of the eighties.
So basically he was a cat. He must add his
own publicist because he you know, he did it. He
was his own publicist. That's him. He was damn donnally. Okay,
he gets the gig with new addition, He's like, I
need a hook. I gotta figure this out, so he's

(48:31):
Spanish Zoro. He gets a hat and the pencil mustard.
So watch if you watch, because then he played with
Bobby Brown. Watch the big ass. Yeah. He then ends
up on the covers and inside of Black Beat and Soul,

(48:54):
right on Cynthia Hornor and all the folks. And he
turned himself into it. He made himself way before that
was really happening. Mostolls will be popping. Yeah low key,
maybe maybe should be zero supreme. Yeah, good work. No,

(49:20):
I'm just saying that had that might have had an
effect on me because I was beside there were no
celebrity drummers. Celebrity drummers and he was just in right on.
I know who Zara is because you know, he was
a famous drummer in the early eighties and then when
I came out of my first album eight nine, he

(49:42):
was came back and he was my touring drummer. Okay, see,
most of us that start with Sindy didn't know that
he came on the third album. Zara was on the
first two tours that Mama said, yeah, and he is where.
He's back in l A. He's still drumming and uh,
you know he he was explained with Frankie Valley a

(50:02):
couple of years ago. Wait, a hatless zero came up
to me and gave me, what time are we talking?
I was still at felonce. So let's say two thousand
and tens, A hatless Zoro came up to me outside
of thirty Rock and gave me, he's a these are

(50:27):
for you, and he put it in my hand and
walked away. And it was twenty of his books, his autobiography.
I didn't know, and I was just looked like, who
would do. He's a motivational speaker as well, but at
the time I was a little paranoid because now in
the in the post nine eleven, the stranger walks out

(50:51):
and I'm not saying you ever talked to Gnard to
Michael Walden, Zoro sort of did that to me. He
was like, brother blessings, Yeah, this is for you. You
don't know who I am. But then and he put
in my hand and he ran off. And instantly I
was like, you said some white powder and then page

(51:12):
or what? And I looked and I was like, oh, books.
And then when I got in the car and pulled
the book out, I was like, holy ship, that was Zoro,
Like who does that? Like that was the thing? Like
he just the night he just are you googling right now?

(51:33):
Am I supposed? This is what everybody should be doing.
Right was listening to quest lets And I had a
DJ company in high school. He owned the equipment because
he had the bread right and I DJA called g
Q Productions. I mean it was you know, and we
did the local house parties in Baldwin Hills and Dara Heights,

(51:58):
Yes Heights, yes, baby, Wow? What kind of stuff did
you play? Hills in the jungle down? You know what
was happening at the time, you know, like you said,
Yarborn people's cameo. You know, this also solidifies that a
lot of our great artists were they were? But where

(52:20):
were you? Because in my mind then you must have
went through some type of style evolution, like where were
you style wise at that time in the eighties rocking
parties in the jungle? Um, I was just kind of
clean cut, you know, bin Hills looking. You know, that's
what does that even look like that? You know? But
wait because that leads to my next question. Was that

(52:43):
Herb Albert gig real? Or was that just just for soul?
The thing sultry? That was just for soul? Trying? Because
I was making my demos in studios C, A and M.
The room in the front right and on the left right,
um Mitchell, is that the blue room? Sound road call?

(53:06):
All right? It was like michell, you sound you sound
like you sound like you sound like? Said McCoy right now.
Um So I was making my demos there and I
got to know everybody on the lot and then you

(53:28):
know they out he did ask okay, now I'm not
is the blue room? I was like, what is it? Then?
You know on the left on the left it's a
small room and had a little with Api or something.
At the time, I can't remember. That's important to note
that you actually recorded at the So I was doing

(53:48):
my demos there. That's the Romeo blue face, and I
know everybody on the lot, and then her that's why
I met Gerald everybody, and then Herb was like, oh, yeah,
we're doing soul training. Don't think you're not going to
get past explaining Romeo. Can you play keytar for me?
And so I did that show. Yeah, that was it,

(54:09):
no tour, that was that was the greatest moment in
my life. Yeah, it's like something wait but okay, so right, yeah,
I knew you would. So on my birthday when I
hopped on a plane just to have lunch at Gero's restaurant.

(54:30):
Remember talking to you about that, all right, So the
thing was they were like, okay, we can take you,
but you're gonna have to be here at eleven in
the morning, which is like required some action going on
for this nineteen hour trip. So I land there and
of course, like I'm still crazy out of my mind
after having been up for like twenty hours straight. But

(54:51):
this is a once in a lifetime mill so I'm
like trying to keep myself up and whatnot. Because I
was like, all right, I know what to do. I
watch Sultry. I've watched three episodes and then we'll go
get my food. In the first episode, I watched outside
to watch some episodes I've never watched before, and I
was like, I heard bald stuff right, And this is

(55:12):
a ridiculous story. Imagine, imagine, I think only is going
to get this reference. But you remember in the five
Art Beats when they went through their electric phase and
Robert I'm sorry forgive me, yes, but Lenny was rocking

(55:33):
his guitar on that level the eighties long Coats, and
he was killing it. And then I don't think I
think I'm the only one who supposed it online. So
then and then Don comes out to the Romeo Blue.
I was like, I found I found it, so okay,

(55:56):
you just did it as a favorite. Just yeah, I
got the pit I see. So wait a minute, why
didn't you sign Okay, so I assume that I was
making demos, but if you signed with Gerald Busby, they
didn't get anything of what I was doing. So even
back then, you were trying to sell us on the

(56:17):
vibe you are that, And I passed up about five
record deals. Gerald tried to give me a deal. Um,
then I R S Records was on the same lot.
So that's Miles Copeland, Stuart Copeland's brother who was running that.
They wanted to hook me up with this producer, Martin Russian,
who had produced The Go Goes. I didn't want to

(56:38):
do that and I wanted to keep my publishing, and
so that didn't happen. Then John McClean came to A
and M and completely revamped A and M with Janet
and put her with Jimmy and Terry and all that history. Um,
did you know John McClean personally or we're still friends.
We'll come back to that. We'll come back to that.

(57:00):
I'm making a note. Okay, good, Okay, No, we got
Si McClean questions. Okay, he's hard to nail down. So yeah,
he's he's he's uh, he's that cat. He's mysterious but
very very interesting cat and a good friend for a
long time. But he offered me a deal, not only solo,
but he offered me a deal with a bunch of
other guys, one of them being Tony Lamon's He wasn't

(57:25):
he Tony? You know about Tony? Right? So Tony before
Prince Okay, Tony and I went to junior high school together.
His name was Tony Fortier and he played french horn
in the orchestra that I played percussion. And later he
had come to a Wave concert and I hadn't seen
him in a few years. And then he started hanging

(57:46):
out and we started making music together. And he was
kind of on this like Slide meets the Beatles kind
of thing. It was funky, and I was playing most
of his instruments. Were a lot of his instruments on
certain tracks, making demos um and then and it was
it was it was like where I went with Let

(58:08):
Love Rule, but it was it was more on the
funk side, but it was that raw. And then I
was Then then we did a gig. We did a
gig that Sheila. I guess Prince sent Sheila to come
to the gig. She saw this gig. We used to
call those gigs in like a rehearsal showcase. Yeah, we

(58:33):
did the showcase. She was there. This was somewhere in
the valley. I was, yeah, I guess you was scouting
for that. I was playing bass. And then they ended
up signing Tony Um. I went my own way to
go do my stuff. But what Prince did was which
I thought was a mistake. Um is he and nothing

(58:56):
against this producer because I love scritty polity record, but
he put him with David Gamson. But but Tony was raw.
If I played you these demos, they were they were
as nasty as slide. I mean they were nasty, nasty
funk with all these harmonies and beetle kind of influence
and and um, I thought that the record was way

(59:17):
too slick. And remember Tony telling me that Prince said
that they didn't sound like records to him. He wanted
them to be more polished. But I thought it was
a mistake because Tony's whole thing was the rawness was
a big part part of his thing. That's like if
you took me let love Rural time and said, Okay,
that's great, but we're gonna have honey, who I love,

(59:38):
who I love? You know, Um, but you know what
I'm saying, Like great on the on the Seal records,
it's great on yes, and Trevor Horne, not for you,
you know, you know what I'm saying. So I mean
it's a different thing. So what we're talking about Tony anyway,
U where were we? No, Tony, the record was too polished. Yeah,

(01:00:02):
but before that, why do we why we were YouTube connected?
I was asking about John McLean so one of the
groups groups that they were trying to do like a
black like like Duran Duran, right, And that was John's
thing at the time. It was me, Tony uh and
like three other guys and and they were throwing the

(01:00:26):
thing in, Man, you guys are gonna be big. We're
gonna send you to SOT the France and record and
do this and do that, and the money and the deal,
and I I turned it down. Wise, I have a
quick question about this period. There's a rumor that I've
been hearing for years that, um, there was supposed to
be a movie starring you, Tony, you, Tony, Mickey Free

(01:00:50):
and somebody else as a band against the Maserati people
that Prince was ready. I didn't know about that. Maybe
maybe they always it was supposed. I think it was
supposed to be the Dawn movie. Yeah, I didn't know.
And I think you guys were supposed to play the
Coco Boys character. Wow. I didn't know the Poco Boys band.
And it was going to be that you guys against Maseratio,
So I don't know that that might have been something

(01:01:12):
that they were talking about. And then, of course, tragically
Tony died. He died in a car accident. Is Tony,
Is that how you met Ingrid Chops? Because they were dating.
They were dating at one point where they because I
heard that Tony and Prince had a falling out because
over her. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to speak for her,

(01:01:33):
but yeah, um, we met and she she came to
some of my early gigs, but I don't remember the
day I met her with Was that a gig or
was that I don't I'm not sure if it was
through Tony or just her coming to a gig. Um. Yeah,

(01:01:57):
why did you choose Romeo Blue? Um? That's the title?
Because I didn't know that. I thought Lenny Lenny Kravitz.
It sounds like a rock star, like this motherfucker. It
sounds like a doctor on Fifth Avenue or a lawyer
like I was wrong with that nothing. But at that time,
you know, you got prints and this one and Madonna,

(01:02:17):
and I was like Lenny Kravitz whenever. First, because there
was a few times where I heard the name Romeo blue,
and but I didn't give it. I didn't get Romeo
to myself. It was these dudes that I was hanging
out with. Um they did in the hood somewhere I
forget it, and they used to call me Romeo. And

(01:02:41):
I guess at that time I was talking to some girls. Yeah,
just the name they rove me a blue just sounds
like I might could steal your girl. And then like
I was like, you're not trying to have any male fans,
like with the name Romeo. And then I, um, who
talked you? Who talked to you? Out of it? Just
to be in the Lenny Kravitz, I knew it was corny.

(01:03:02):
I was just like, this is not me, okay, I
want to I want to be me like it. It
brought me back around to myself like playing this character. Yeah,
how long were you? Because I had like the spiked
hair and the clothes and blue contact lenses, like I
was doing this bow and this was this was before

(01:03:25):
there were those Now we have those soft contact lenses these.
I wanted these blue eyes, right, So my lawyer turned
me on to this special effects guy who made the
contact lenses for The Incredible Hulk for luf ridden contact.
These these contacts, these contact lenses were like bottle caps.

(01:03:52):
They were hard, and I'd go out, I'd just be
like blinking, and you know, it was ridiculous, man, but
I was but I was committed context. It was bad, man,

(01:04:12):
it was bad. It was bad. And then I just like,
you know what, I'm just gonna be n graphics man,
That's it. And then, uh so I was doing this
stuff with Tony Um and there was another band that
I was singing. I sang their demos. It was a
band called Maggie's Dream that was here in New York City,

(01:04:35):
and I was singing their demos. I was doing Tony stuff.
But all in a while I was trying to figure
out who I was. And then I met Lisa at
the New Edition concert. We then became friends for like
a year or so and then ended up being like
brother and sister. Actually the relationships turned out like that. Constantly.

(01:04:57):
We were She had boyfriends, I had girlfriends that there
wasn't like a slot, there was nothing happening. My bench
is fool right now, like in the contract, We'll see
what's up, you know what I mean? So you see
me on the off season. I got my start in
five already. So she's doing Cosby out in l A

(01:05:22):
now at Universal Studios. Same actually same actual studio as
the Jeffersons, which was interesting. So so you grew up
on the Yeah, on the set, I mean of the Jeffersons. Well,
I mean you wait, well know when I when after
Lisa and I met and became friends, and then I
I was I was going back and forth between New

(01:05:42):
York and l A. Then I came back out to
l A. At some period she said, asked me to
come to the studio, went to Universal, the same studio,
same building is my where my mom films, and we're
hanging out. She had this mustang like we're in the series.
It's must stay in convertible sixties. It was beautiful car. Anyway,

(01:06:05):
She would let me use her car in the day
while she was rehearsing and filming, so I could go
right and do my music and do whatever hustle and
I was doing, and then I would pick her up
at work. She lived in Venice at the time. Then
you gotta drive all the way from studios of the city,
all the lay at Venice, and then I would find
my way wherever I was going Eventually she's like, why

(01:06:26):
don't you just start staying over? Like just stay over,
Like here's a room, there's a rolling Stone interview. No,
it's it's in the interview interview where she's talking about
her brother Romeo A. Seriously, it exists somewhere. I've seen it. Well,

(01:06:47):
at some point you stuck in the room. Well what
had happened when? Anyway, so you know you understand my way.
We ended up. So then I would get up in
the morning, drive her to Burbanks and I would go
do my thing, pick her up. This went on for months,

(01:07:08):
and then we grew close and what do we do? Then?
You know, we fell in love and in the whole
world fell in love with you, and everybody wanted to
So is the Love Rule album about her? That whole
thing was both of us. That was really like where

(01:07:28):
we were, you know. And so in doing all that
stuff with Tony Lman's and the other group, and and
I'm turning down all these deals and I didn't go
with Tony, I didn't go with John McClain, I didn't
go with Joe Busby. I didn't go with Benny Medina.
He actually Benny offered Tony and Tony and I had
a development deal and Warner Brothers. They moved us into

(01:07:52):
the oak Wood UH apartments in Burbank, and at the
time Slide was living there too, George Clinton was there.
It was it was nasty, literally nasty. It was nasty.
And so then Lisa and I are, you know, getting close,

(01:08:13):
and we're living our life and we have we have
this whole like hippie lifestyle and all this love and
these ideals and everything, and upart moving into her house.
She's like, yeah, bring your gear. I brought my stuff.
Keep friend of Rhodes. I brought my guitars myself. I
started writing the album. That's how it started, right there,

(01:08:35):
Venice in her house. And this is before you even
had a deal, before you signed with I had no deal.
I made the record. I had no deal. The record
was done, I had no deal. Yeah, when was it finished?
And well, it came out in eighty nine, so it
was done in eight. Yeah, And then I was taking
it around everywhere and people were just like, we don't
know what to do with this. Okay, you gotta tell Okay,

(01:08:56):
there's one story that I'm envious about as far as
your daughter is concerned. Uh Hank and Chuck told me
the story that she your Zoe was the fifth person
to hear Mason of Millions, because I guess at some

(01:09:19):
time point, I don't know if they were mastering the
record there and you guys were next door, or you
were mastering your record there and they were next door,
whatever the case, but they explained to me that, um,
after being guarded about letting the outside world hearing anything
from it takes a nation of millions, that you and

(01:09:41):
pregnant Lisa were the first audience to hear the record
right when it was completed, And I was like, wow, man,
like fucking Zoe gets to hear this record before. In
the reaction in that room, though, I'm I think I

(01:10:02):
think Chuck said that it was when our chaosky one
that's like uh, Zoe started kicking uh, at least in
the stomach. So the song about Joe break so okay.
There there was no UM. I mean, there wasn't an

(01:10:24):
idea of retro. I wasn't thinking any retro had nothing
to do with it. I wanted I wanted to make
records that sounded like the records that I loved, and
I get that you weren't intentionally. And I remember the
first thing I said when I called my engineer in
New York who I was working with, I was like,

(01:10:44):
I wanted to sound I said, carpet E. I wanted
to sound like like how it sounds like us sitting
right here with these carpets in this room with I
wanted to feel organic. I wanted to hear the room.
I wanted to feel the plushness of the sound. And um,
well very much wanted that sort of innervision sonics different

(01:11:07):
music that I played obviously and so but that was
like where I was coming from. I wanted it to
be intimate in your face, and I wanted you to
hear my hands playing the instruments, you know, but not
that Okay, at least in eighty nine, Like there wasn't
uh to technology or anything like that. But the thing
is that even today, if I wanted to make something

(01:11:32):
that sonically uh close to quote the stuff that we
grew up on, um, it would cost me more. Like
it wasn't something that could be easily done. It takes time,
It takes technique, It takes having the right gear, having
all that tube equipment and all that, you know what
I mean, Like so where did you where did you
find the Because you more than God? Okay, I don't

(01:12:01):
want to Anglan no, no, no, I'm just saying you
more than Okay. So when daptone does it, they kind
of overdo it. I mean with the processing, in the
in the in the in, the compression and stuff like.
I get what they're going for, but it almost sounds
like too overdone, whereas your stuff sounds supernatural al right, like, uh,

(01:12:23):
the first song sitting on top of the world, right,
So but how are you able to mixing wise? Achieve
achieve that? Because when people go on natural, especially starting
in this ship, sounds like Kenny g or No, there
was nothing. It sounds like that. You know, use these

(01:12:45):
these tama you know these Tama drunks. I mean, was
you You did all the instruments on your and your
first records. Well, also, my engineer Henry Hurst played the
Hammond on some of the song's brilliant performances and played
like a base on a tracker or two. So what
the instruments were you using? I had I I had

(01:13:08):
a a Fender Deluxe tweet Amp. I had a epifone Sorrento,
I had a telecaster I had a set of Gretch drums.
I had a Fender base, an app that was it
and his and and this studio. How do you know

(01:13:31):
how to make the stuff with that I had? I
had a brilliant engineer, first of all, a guy by
the name of Henry Hirsch who had a studio in
Jersey and Hoboken called Waterfront. And he was brilliant. And
he and I when I was making demos with another band,
that band, I was talking about Maggie's dream Um. We
had gone there. It was like thirty dollars an hour.
It was something we could afford. And that whole thing

(01:13:54):
didn't work out. But he and I connected, We saw
eye to eye talking about music, and then I knew
that when I was gonna make my record, I'm gonna
call this guy because he gets it. And he had
He had a Triumph board. We had We didn't even
we had no tari and TRR ninety. It wasn't even
like some like crazy student a MTR ninety, which is

(01:14:15):
a great workhorse machine. But we had that he had.
We had the proper like we had forty seven tubes
and and then we ended up getting a fair Child
compressor and we had a couple of politics, but really
it wasn't that much. It wasn't that much gear. But
this guy was a genius and he taught me so
so much. He knew exactly how he did. And we

(01:14:36):
used to just I mean we used to go at it.
You know, was it trial and era we'd spent We'd
spend days on a drum sound bro. You know, I
I too would try to we start fighting. You know,
it was crazy. I would try to achieve that and couldn't.
I mean, even now, I'll say, like twenty years into

(01:14:58):
my career, I think I'm just finding satisfaction because I
but in the age of no pro tools or anything,
were you're rewinding tape over and over again, I would
have just imagined that we're taking you forever too. And
I was overdubbing one instrument on top of the other.
It was no band. It was a trip. But um,

(01:15:21):
it's all that stuff, all fears you yeah, freedom train, yea,
all that. Yeah? What was that? Yeah, I'm just saying.
So he wrote everything and I guess demo stuff at
at Leasta's house and then went to and then I

(01:15:42):
went to Waterfront and cut the album. So just completed
the album, I've had no deal taking it around. You know,
it's still the go to the Black Department, you know,
So what was the feedback. The feedback was, we think
you're talented, but you you can't do this. You need
to do what. I guess whatever was going on in

(01:16:05):
Black ready at that time in eighty eight, say like
Riley Virgin was cool, but going around all the other labels,
they were just like, we you can't do this. We
don't get you can't do this. You gotta do this.

(01:16:25):
And so even with like so who's Terence? Terrence was
hitting in there, So even with that, he was arrival.
But it was as different as he was. I still
had all those guitars and all that Terence and stuff

(01:16:46):
was way more R and B and sane. Prince was
still envy was always his own thing, and I was
coming upright. I built this garden for us and freedom.
You know. It's like it's no one you see that
couldn't get half. They couldn't see it. So then I
went to I had I was granted a five minute

(01:17:06):
meeting at Virgin in l A with this lady God
bless her, Nancy jeffries Um. You know yeah, she was,
I knew this guy who was managing me, and she said,
you got five minutes. Because she used to get on
the plane every Friday to fly back to New York

(01:17:27):
because her husband lived in New York and she spent
the weekends in New York in the week in l A.
Her husband worked with Philip Glass. He did so produced
engineers anyway, they worked together. So she goes, you got
five minutes. I put on let Love Rule, and she said,
wait a minute, and then she went and got Jeff
eare Off played le Rois, played another one. I played

(01:17:50):
b and he said hold on. He got his partner,
Jordan Harris. The three of them are sitting there and
there I'm playing three four different songs. They're writing on pads,
passing it around. I'm what's going through. I've been trying
to get signed fifteen I'm the original groups. And later
I come to find out they had written John Lennon

(01:18:11):
meets Prince And after fifteen minutes, Jeff said, come to
my office. And that was it, Like, after all those years,
then okay, we're gonna sign you. He's like, I have
no idea if we can sell a record. I don't
know how to market you. I don't know what to
do with you, but we believe in it, and so

(01:18:34):
we'll we'll deal with you. And that was it um
for all of for all of the Lennon flak that
you've gotten. Can I ask, where does where does Elvis
Scots Stello stand in nowhere? When I love us? I
love els. When I read that first Rolling Stone review
and they said that I sounded like Elvis Carstello, I

(01:18:56):
had no idea. I didn't even know that said that
the first because everybody was saying very first uh review
in Rolling Stone for that love Rulello was the was
was mentioned, But I didn't know. The only Elvis Costello
song I knew was uh, every day I write the
book or whatever. I don't know if this yeah, which

(01:19:18):
I loved, right, But I didn't understand. I didn't hear
the similarity of the tone of voice or anything. So
that was just coincidental. I have no idea. Okay, when
do you hear it? So no, I didn't know about
that Rolling Stone review. But yeah, I always felt that
your voice was closer to Elvis's tone, and I thought that, oh, well,

(01:19:41):
maybe you know he was a hero because I thought
it was just too and it's easy, little hanging fruit
just to say John Lennon. I didn't know where the
Lennon thing was coming from, truthfully. When there was a
manager who was trying to manage at the time, and
he was he had heard the record let LaRue was done,

(01:20:01):
and he said, man, have you you must be a
fan of the Plastic on a record And I said,
I don't know what you're talking about. He turned me
onto the Plastic on the record. I was like, oh wow,
like there's some similarities here, like you would never heard it.
I had never heard the Plastical. I just knew the Beatles.

(01:20:22):
And then funny enough, when I met Yoko Um. She
came to one of my first gigs in Switzerland, UM
in Geneva and she's I'm in my dress room. One
was banging on the door and like, who is it.
It's Yoko Ono. Was like, who's like trying to mess
with me? Three? Three or four more knocks. Finally I
opened the door. Is Yoko Ono and she's like, I'm

(01:20:46):
a big fan and did da da da? And she
said this so I'm not saying anything about it, like
it was just super flattering. But she was like the
way you sing is the way John wanted to sing.
And I was like, wow, that's how I called him. Yeah,
well wait, since you mentioned it, uh, what five albums

(01:21:07):
can you before? I just wanted to no, no, no,
it hasn't. Um, it's just UM. I think a lot
of those comparisons that maybe UM from back then, the
Lennon Costello things. UM. I think a lot of that
has to do with the making the close miking and
that that sounds just that in your face ship with

(01:21:30):
the vocal m and I was screaming and I was
raw and totally when I listened when I finally heard
Mother and all those songs, I was like, I was
those records maybe I found out God all those songs
I mean huge. Yeah, so that level was like that
in a sense to me when it came out was um.

(01:21:53):
And I read that review and everything, and I'm a
huge Costello fan and a huge Lendin fan. But really,
I think a lot of the comparisons from from the
rawness and the dryness rather than Yeah, at that time,
there were no dry records. That's what I'm saying, how
did you? Everybody was like whoa, I mean that record
was dry? How did you resist, you know, production, well,

(01:22:16):
because I really believed in the way this stuff sounded.
It sounded so intimate to me. And when I turned
the record in, they were like okay because they heard
the record and they signed me. But then I guess
they thought they were listening to like Ross. I was like, no,
that's it, and they were like, no, no, you gotta
get somebody to mix this record. So they called this guy,

(01:22:39):
what's his name? He mixed you too? No, Lily White, No,
And we went to Green Street Studios. James m oh god, anyway,
I'll get his name. Really nice guy. And then he
started taking it and you know, trying to make its
liquor and more and hord and then I ended up

(01:23:01):
and then it didn't. I was like, no, do they
have those mixes anywhere? I'd like to hear what because
at the time, at the time it was like bon
Jovi and it was like triggers and drums, you know
all that. So here was this stale no dope. But

(01:23:22):
I wouldn't put it on that right, you know, for
all those all that non linear you know, and all
that stuff. Um, I would have liked the mix of
built this Garden for us that would have been funny.
I'm sorry. So top five No, no, no, Now, I'm like, man,
were those mixes like once you don't know, I don't

(01:23:42):
know someone in virgin I got a call. Yeah, you're
in some buildings somewhere in I can't wait. So what's
on the let level deluxe thing that came out everything?
And I know, but what what came out on on
on that edition? Which edition? The anniversary? Yeah, the anniversary edition?
All of his like I guess demos and stuff. Every

(01:24:05):
the same exact record, but all the demos like little
cassette things singing in with a guitar or something, just
like you're I would assume the stuff that you did,
uh Cold Turkeys on there, but also like there's a
live concert. It's it's like three discs of stuff, but
a lot of your two discs. I'm sorry forgive me.

(01:24:28):
Um yeah, mixture of the living room demos and I
guess you're well, you do your lyrics inside of a
cassette player that sort of thing, I mean a lot
of times. Yeah. Yeah, so just we're all we're all
demo stuff like that. So okay, I'm sure at this point,
at the stage of your life, like their albums that

(01:24:49):
influence you and you've gotten hip to them after the fact,
you know, Like I got in the Beatles late when
I was in my twenties. But on your first album,
what were you? You're like, what was your top five?
Can't live without records? I remember when I was making
that record. Talking Book was constant, constant. I remember jamming

(01:25:13):
that day and night on my Uh. I think I
had made here? M deep, what's that made here? Oh? Yeah,
we atually? Yeah, we're talking Book was made here. I'm
sorry forgetting. And there's the roots. See that rose right
behind you. That's the Stevie Wares. I'm talking about roots.
We haven't said. Come on, man, I will lead up
to it. Dag nabbit, We've been up to you. You

(01:25:43):
ain't gonna playnna play it? Angry angry. I'm getting angry too, anyway. Yes,
ninety minutes to the center. We're an Electric Lady Studios
in New York City, home of Talking Book and the

(01:26:06):
music of My Mind and Divisions, a lot of Roy
Airs stuff and Jimi Hendrick stuff and nothing my life. Yes, wow,
yeah he recorded that here. You never recorded here. We chose,
We chose. The reason why we chose vood because well,

(01:26:27):
besides the House of Jimmy, they kept the same instruments
forever in the same microphone, So Defender Roads, they've taken
care of all the equipments. Beautiful. Yeah, like here is
where who got their coffee cup on the top of Okay,
there's a lot of damage that we here. Came here

(01:26:50):
I did. Didn't you come by during the Voodoo session? Yes, yes,
he did, and he said, quote, there's a discrepancy in
the drumming. Did everyone was I not? Oh, she's always

(01:27:15):
know you sent me a thing once. But I remember
also taking it to my studio on this is during
the five album. When I was making the five album,
it was me. I was not hip to that stutter
and drum stuff was like it always for like, go on,

(01:27:36):
you know they that's that's you, bro, Yeah, that's you.
You know. It took me along, like did you invent that? No,
it's what happened. Was what happened was I was meticulous
and straight, straighter than six o'clock. And then I never
heard that before. That's a grand poop I line right there,

(01:27:58):
come on, yeah anyway, So basically, uh, I wanted people
to think I was a computer. But then when I
heard Dreaming Eyes of Mine, and then when I heard
Jay Dilla, I was like, yo, they sound drunk, Like
that's cool. But I was still trying to be straight
with with my drummers and and meticulous because I wanted

(01:28:20):
to be like, oh man, that was LEVI is such
a metronome. But playing with D. D just naturally sounds
like a cool sign hanging from his mouth, and and
that he had some moonshine. He just always plays super
laid back and right, and it forces you. So it
took me and Pino about a good three months to

(01:28:42):
feel safe to do that, because I mean, you're also
thinking what I wanted to avoid. I was always with
D's program, but I always feared the day that another
musician would be like, damn, drums is fucked up. No, no,
But I was all old school and my laid back
too and four and I was I just wasn't in
that head. So we took it. We took it to

(01:29:04):
the whole another level. And when you said that was
like and Henry and I were like, there's something wrong
with this. And I looked at like, you know, I
told you, I know you were just like letting a hip.
So can I ask the question he told me was like,
I mean with a new excuse me, professor, Professor Kravis.

(01:29:25):
So here's my question. Within the Voodoo like the album,
can you give us an example of where we might
have heard that stutter just for something? Every song everything
behind and doing it, I mean every people are doing
it un titled right, Like really is that? Because I
hear it? I mean, it's just a beef that should

(01:29:49):
be where you think it should be, and it does
it it's behind or you know, and it's it's it's
But at the time we wanted him to play on
he's always in my hair. I really took it to
the next hip. I mean I was o Dan on
Slum Village, so by that point, you know everything, I

(01:30:11):
wasn't in the right family line at the time. They
did it right, Oh man, you don't know. Did you
ever introduced the stutup at some later point? Um? Well, Elliott, no,
because you got I mean, I consider of the next
generation of drummers. I mean, for a while, what's his
name was drumming with you? Um uh, drums with wasn't

(01:30:35):
wasn't Daryl drumming for you? For a second, Darry Jones.
Was he not drumming Daryl Jones? But you actually know? Damn.
I don't want to find this out on my own
radio show because I'm about to be loud and wrong
in the studio or live live. Who is your drumming

(01:30:57):
that Druones with your tall black Franklin Vanderbilt Jr. Damn,
all this time the first time, it's okay, that's name.
Now I've been loud and wrong like people where they're
born and not, but all this time because frank and
and Daru kind of position their drums in a very
particular way that I just thought they were the same

(01:31:17):
person based on how they They're the only people I
knew who sneered drum leans and tilts towards twelve a
clock taking for the clock again Jack White, Jack Jack White, right,
the smooth criminal Lean. Yes, So I always thought that
Daru was also your drummer and Jack White drummer. Now

(01:31:38):
I'm realizing that there's two. So it's Franklin. Yeah, he's
on he's on the New torn now. Yeah, yeah, he's bad.
One day I would get names and places on the maps. Right,
there's also a singer and I don't know if she
still with your shoes. A friend of mine. We went
to college together, y'alls? Right, Yes, how did y'all they

(01:31:59):
they did a few years with me. Unstruck the princess thing.
That's right. She sang in the because I called her.
She was in town. Had her coming joined the choir
when we did Doves Cry and the Cross. Yeah, how
did you guys think up? How did you come across her?
Through Erica Jerry who was one of the background singers.

(01:32:22):
She she was singing with um Raphael Sadik and they
were opening for me in Europe, and so we got
to know her and then I just called her. I
was like, I need three girls for the tour. She
brought them all and she she knew yaz. Yeah, we
go way back. She's amazing. Okay. So now in your

(01:32:45):
your wise age and in hindsight, I now get the stutter.
Let me just getting He went and did five that
ship so like gang bustles. So I think he you
are no, but I'm saying that, Uh, after let love rules,

(01:33:06):
let love rule comes to be colored. And that was
so when it comes out, Uh, you become a household name.
And even though I know you've had the bigger album. No, no,

(01:33:31):
it was like the introduction. But yeah, I feel like
doors open for you. And also I would like to
think that the effects of what happened during that first
album is what caused the second album to happen, because
there's act I mean, there's some confessional yeah here my

(01:33:53):
dear going on with the second album. So what I
want to know is not that a person should ever
regret moves or any of course their life takes, but
what was it to have success and what occurred that

(01:34:15):
and do you have any regrets of your initial breakout?
I hope I asked a whole lot of money. Okay,
talk to me about the effects of the effects of
the album coming out. And I mean it was fantasy.

(01:34:38):
I didn't know what was going on. Man, this was
all I had just grown up, being a fan all
my life. And now I'm now I'm doing that thing
that I love and I'm going around the world and
I'm playing and people know the music and it's like
you're the new guy, you know. I mean, Prince called
me on the phone. I mean it was like when

(01:34:59):
you're the you know, it's it's to call me on
the phone. I mean every you know what it was
like all of a sudden, you're meeting these people and
everybody's come yok, and was coming around and this you know,
and um, actually wait real quick, because you played when
you were mine at the Apollo with prints. Yes, what
was that like? Um, I don't even remember. It was

(01:35:21):
just like he wudn't hear me all the time, but
the mic wasn't that he had me and he had
me off on the side because he you know, he
didn't want me right there next time. No, but he
kicked my ass. It's just you know, but he he
always wanted to make sure, you know. But um, yeah,
that was a trip. That was one of the first times.

(01:35:42):
We think it's the first time we played live. And
then we talked about TV. And then he would call
me like we'd be in Amsterdam. He called me the
middle of night, I have a show so another city,
meet me at this club and we'd go play for
a few hours, and then he'd give me like a
bag of money, like he was so generous about it.
He'd be like, all right, I made this, and here's yours.

(01:36:06):
Here's your cut, he's your cut, and uh he walk
out with a bag of money but damn he did
the opposite with me. He wants made me take a
taxi cab like Philly. The butter was like that sounds

(01:36:26):
like more of the revolution stories too. I was like
that sound his version is different because when the revolution
was talking, he liked you mother wouldn't even come to
my cab. Remember my song lady cab driver there? That
was pretty good. That's pretty good. But anyway, it was

(01:36:47):
a fantasy. It was a fantasy. I didn't know. I
wasn't thinking I was I was just doing. I had
no idea what was going on, no idea, and financially
at that time, like were you good? Like were you making?
Where was your money? And I was renting an apartment.
I wasn't you know, I wasn't making like that. Um,
I guess. Starting on the third record, We're are you
Gonna Go? My Way? Hit, then it turned into more

(01:37:09):
of a like oh wow, oh we're going around the
world playing arenas and you know, speaking of that song,
thank you for putting that in guitar Hero, because that
turned my son's onto your music, and like we we
played that and they loved that song and that thanks
that put them onto your music. I started showing them
more your stuff. Thank you, yeah, m M cors Love

(01:38:11):
Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic
episode was produced by the team at Pandora