July 24, 2023 • 138 mins
Legendary multi-instrumentalist, songwriter and producer Leon Sylvers III talks about the secrets of his craft, helping Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis get their start and producing acts like The Whispers, Shalomar, Dynasty and more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of course, Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This
classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Without
no doubt, this gentleman that would bring into the table
is responsible for some of the best music you've ever danced,
ever listened to. Of Course, these talented family, the Silver's family,
(00:25):
have been in our lives for so long. They're amazing harmonies.
Of course, him branching out on his own to do
production for like The Whispers, Shallamar, Lakeside, Evelin, Champion King,
so many, so many groups, so many groups, just this
classic sound of boogie, you know, kind of hosting disco,
(00:47):
and we call it book. He's one of the greatest
and so so so happy that he took time out
to come speak to us. This is Leon Silvers, the third.
This is from January thirty first, twenty eighteen lest classic.
Here we Go.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Supremo something So Supremo. Role called Supremo Sun Sun Supremo.
Role Call, Supremo Son Son Supremo, Roll Call, Supremo Son
Son Supremo roll Call.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I got nothing, Yeah, no, really, I got nothing. Yeah,
I'm sober whelmed by grands. I have nothing.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Sprema So Supremo roll call Suprema Son Son Suppremo Ro.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Wait a minute, Yeah, let's see how I sound. Yeah,
Now do I sound better?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
The second time.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Fund Sun Supremo role called Supremo Sun Son Supremo role
call my.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Name is Fante. Yeah, call me your friend. Yeah, because
it's not too Yeah. Only one can win.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Supremo Road Suprema So Supremo Road Suprema.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
The show to be on. Yeah, let's put some tea on.
Yeah and talk to missus Silver.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Supremo, Son Son sup Roll Mulesman struggling. Yeah, to write
these rhymes. Yeah, almost called a ghost writer. Yeah, on
the hotline.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Son Son Supremo Roll Call Supremo.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Roll it's my em Yeah. And I ain't feeling bad yeah,
Leon Silvers.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, got me think about DC Cab.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So Supreme Road Supremo.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
Yeah yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
So frame.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Up frame, Roll up up up frame.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Ladies and gentlemen. That was the greatest contribution ever, ever
ever to to.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
Okay, dude, I'm sweating over here.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know, I know we're nervous about this episode because
we didn't mock like you normally. We mocked like you
is intro and we we you caught a break this
time because you came through with the DC that was
he went real deeper that that. Okay, look, I'm just
(04:02):
putting it out there. We're just gonna go all over
the place because the reason why I feel as though
we commit to the show. Yes, you know, we're about
the whatever, the teaching of excellence and bringing people and
exposing him to the audience, you know, to audience that
(04:22):
might not know him, stuff like that. But just sometimes
you just want to nerd out on your favorite and
I there's so much. There's not enough that I can
say about the gentleman that we have with us right now.
I can say that, you know, he is. I mean,
(04:44):
he's such a genius in every area that he's ever
done in crafting harmonies and his musicianship and his songwriting.
I mean he damned near it invented a genre of music.
He killed disco. He literally killed this of all the
like he invented genres, and he inspired some of our
(05:08):
greatest I told Jimmy Jam that he was coming on
our show, and even Jimmy Jam had to bow down
because of all that he learned from this man. I'm
about to start crying right now. Ladies and gentlemen, please
welcome to the show, Leon Silvers. Yes, man, you don't
(05:31):
know how happy we are right now, Like we're just
shout out to dang funk shout the day funk. Yeah.
We have so many questions about your life, Like I've
never idolized someone so much that I really don't know
(05:51):
that much about because you rarely did interviews and things
like that that matter. But let's just should we rapid fire?
Do we?
Speaker 6 (06:00):
Just we?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I want to go, Let's go through the journey. Okay,
now I'm gonna say it. Let's start at the beginning.
You all got to be proud of me. I haven't
said that in a while, but this time. Okay. So uh,
I believe your entire family is from Tennessee. Correct, Uh,
please be wrong?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Suck everybody except me Fastergian Pat.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Where were you born?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I was born in South Ben, Indiana. Oh yes, My
father was going to college out there and my mother
and I was born on the campus and only stayed
there three days after I was born, So I know
nothing about South Ben, Indiana.
Speaker 6 (06:46):
I was.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I was born there for three days. I was there
for three years. Wait, you born in South ben Memorial Hospital. Wow,
that's amazing, That's that's crazy. Yeah, So just I just
want to know it all, like talk about the beginnings
(07:07):
in Tennessee and how music entered into the household.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Well about Tennessee, I can't remember too much except Roy Rogers,
so I was too. After about two years, we hit
the train and came to LA. I think I was
two or three years old, and La is where everything
started the Motown sound for me.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Why did you guys move to Los Angeles?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I think my father got a gig at what is it, uh,
some kind of space company something. He was doing some
kind of work I couldn't remember, but he his work
brought us out there. And everybody wasn't born yet. It
(08:02):
was just myself, Charmaine.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Charmaine Charmaine is the eldest sister and you're the eldest brother.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
No, Olympia is the oldest of the family. Olympia and
then myself, Charmaine and James Jonathan. Uh, that was who
was only four of us when we went to LA
and it started with me was the Motown sound. I
was into James Jamison on bass period and Benny Benjamin
(08:34):
the drums. Uh, And that was my start in music.
I was taking hangers acting like high hats. I took
the drum, the little broom the sweeping part, used that
as a rim and snare, and the box spring I
used as a kick drum. And that's how I started
(08:54):
music right there.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
You know, that's where most people would take the broom
and make that to a guitar. You thought to make that?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Was were there any adults that were musicians that were
influential in your life at that point.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Where no, I'm just Jamison and Benny Benjamin. I didn't
know nobody yet. That was only about six or seven
there at seven.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
What was it about that music that called you the bass?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I got a guitar when I was like, we did
we just did four part harmony because I was teaching
everybody this lower Scudder's commercial back in the day. And
my brother was three years old, but he held four
part harmony. So we was doing this Lower Scudder's commercial,
and my father heard us and started teaching us some
(09:46):
four freshman type harmony back in the day at high
lows and all that, and so we did it real easy,
and he got a manager and they put us on
we were called the Little Angel, right, and they put us
on Spike Jones arc Link letters show all these names
from back in the day. And that's where my brother,
(10:11):
he was three when we did our first TV show,
and he held he gave everybody our parts when we
forgot him, so he As far as harmony is concerned.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
How did you guys even know how to notate harmony?
Because well, one thing I think our audience should know
is I feel like the the one distinction that separated
you guys from any of your contemporaries Jackson Stair Steps,
(10:42):
whoever was young at that time, was you guys had
the most unusual harmony structures ever? Was that from not knowing?
Like who taught you those dissonant and chromatic harmonies that
weren't average?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And I think, well, my father was into the four
Freshmen and the high lows and all that. So he
he saw us doing three part harmony and one lead
on this Laura scuddis commercial and I gave him their parts,
but it was, you know, simple stuff like you know,
and he saw we can hold a note, not get off,
(11:21):
So he started giving us harder songs, songs like It's
a Blue World and well, I forgot the name of
those songs, but uh it was four and five part harmony,
and we stayed on it and didn't get off. I
don't know why. My mother could have been an opera singer.
She was studying for a minute, So I guess that's
(11:44):
why we uh we just felt we can do it,
and we just did it. You know. It wasn't no
why or whatever. We just did it, stayed on the notes.
And I actually was the worst holding the note. Yeah, James,
this was the best, and then it was Charmaine, then Olympia.
(12:07):
Than me, I was last. I always forget my note,
you know. But James had the ear for holding the notes,
and he was the youngest.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
What year was this this was?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I was like I was like seven six, but.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I mean, like in what year was it?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Like probably sixty fifty nine or something like. I was
born in fifty three, so okay, around fifty nine or
something like that or sixty.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So there wasn't even a template out at the time
to or besides maybe Frankie Lymon and the teenagers, which
is more like fifty seven to fifty, but there were
no kids groups or that sort.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Of thing to no, just Frankie Lyman, what's your name?
Sound kind of like a kid little Anthony back then imperiods.
I listened to him for a minute.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, so were you guys instantly in pursuit of the
next level? Was just to find a record deal? Or
was it just like we did this television show and
that's it.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Well, back then we didn't have no leads. It was
off harmony, so we would just stand there and sing,
no personality, no charisma or nothing, just singing holding the notes.
And we were so young that I guess the crowd
thought it was amazing that we were singing that kind
of stuff, But we was just ready to get off
the stage and go play kind of thing. But I
(13:29):
loved music. I was the one teaching them and actually
sometime making.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Them saying but.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I got into the motown thing, and then from there
we didn't get into seriously making moves to record companies
till I was around I guess thirteen or fourteen or fifteen,
something like that, because that's when when the Jacksons came out.
(14:00):
That's when I got serious and I started teaching that
when my brother, because he had the most powerful voice
and I was he said, I can't say. I said, well,
just nothing again, you won't do nothing unless you practice it.
He had the tone. So I work with him every
day and practice till after a year or so he
(14:22):
was riffing and all that.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
You know, So all your brothers and sisters are literally
coming out the wound one by one during this period.
You're just waiting for them to get of age.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
And like everybody, there was nobody that came in my
family that couldn't hold a harmony. They could do that
before they could do a lead. We had to practice
our leads.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
So as far as when they give them apart, they'd
hold it and we sing to somebody else's part, they
would keep it and never blend into the other person's
part or anything like that. We all had that, I guess.
But the leads we had to work on, and worked
him and Foster. But Edmund worked the hardest. Uh and
(15:05):
his tone reaped the benefits because I worked at it
at home. And then when we got with Freddie Perrin, uh,
he heard Edmans's voice right off the bat.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So, but that was the one in the Capitol years.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I'm jumping too fast, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So what label was pride associated with? MGM.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, a friend of Mike Curb, which was Mike Wiener Curb.
Mike Curb was running MGM when we were signed, and
he was only twenty four years old.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Wait, so the Mike Curb congregation.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
That's one of my favorite breakdingwsime exactly, the coming down. Yeah,
oh my god. Yeah, he was cool. He was the
one that really hit me with the commercial thing because
I was doing I was really kind of into back
then that social conscious type writing, the you know, because
(16:05):
the Black Panthers was out and all that stuff, so
socially conscious music was kind of in, and I was
into that from a third grip from this history teacher,
Mr Simon. But he was the one who told me, well, Leon,
your music has to be more commercial, you know. And
(16:27):
I was on that tip, like, well, what do you know?
You only do pop music, you know, you know, because
we knew how more. I mean, MGM was as far
as motown was. And he's like, you're right, but even
if I do pop music, it has to be commercial.
You're doing R and B, it's got to be as commercial.
(16:47):
And I didn't want to hear that, but I did,
and I started changing after I had that meeting because
he wanted to give He made up pride after that.
It's all. He told us to do this song called
what It Takes, an old Barry Gordy song, and he
wanted us to do it, and we did it, and
(17:08):
it you know, it wasn't nothing. You know, it didn't
do nothing. And this meeting with me, I didn't know
it at the time, was to get inside whoever was
the head of leader of the group type of thing.
And I was more like trying to tell him, we
know what we're do and just let us do it,
(17:29):
because I realized they put us on the shelf for
the Osmonds because they didn't right, Yeah, but we didn't
know that when we signed and they didn't tell, you know,
we just we didn't have no records out for a year.
We didn't even go in the studio for a long
time after the Osmonds was out. But you know, I
(17:50):
understand the marketing thing, you know, uh, they didn't want
no other competition out there, and we were a family
group that could sing harmony and all that, so they
signed us.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Well, then I gotta ask then if because I know
with one bad Apple not At one point did MGM say, hmm,
this sounds close like ABC. All right, Silvers, here you go,
like this should be for you instead of the Osmonds.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Or no, the Odumans were signed already and they were
specially targeted to be the off the other side, a
white group family group and a black family group. That
was I understand the marketing after, but we didn't know
that was the case till, like, you know, years later,
And I didn't believe it even after people was telling
(18:37):
me because I wasn't caring about that, you know, as
long as we can come out, that was my thing.
So their whole thing was done, and all of a
sudden we heard them out and he was on MGM.
Nothing was told or anything, and it just came out,
you know, And I actually liked the record. I thought
it was you know. But Mike Curb was cool because
(18:59):
he made up pride and well he got his friend
Michael Veener to uh credible bar because incredible bargle man.
Oh yeah yeah, and that was a funny story too.
But he they were schoolmates, Curb and Mike Veener, and
he always wanted to get into the record business and
(19:20):
Mike Curb gave him that shot and gave us put
us on another label because MGM was more pop than anything.
They never had no R and B groups on MGM,
so Pride was the label that he put us on.
Got a well KEG. Johnson got a black promoter and
(19:42):
Mike Veener was the head of Pride and we hit
with Fool's Paradise our first record. Well there was R
and B hit, you know, I didn't get no pop play,
but uh, that was that. And when we started practicing,
we went on the road and things were happening quick
because we had the big naturals and people automatically oh
(20:05):
another Jackson's and we had the bigger naturals. So can you.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Clear how those your actual naturals home?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, okay, I had to know it for his weeks
or not because they were so perfect. The Silvers Afros
for me, the real standard of the Afro, not the
Jackson five like that. You know.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Well, we we had a concept. I thought, if you
would we would go to bed instead of with the
natural flattening it up, we would brush our hair up
and take rubber bands and have a unicorn going up
and to sleep like that. And we took the rubber
bands off, it would just lay out like that.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Wow, so that was our natural secrets revealed. You think,
I ain't gonna do this, only braid my hair so
can have that effect. I was like, damn, I could
just unicorm shit, you're fired, thank you? Oh man? So
(21:05):
h knowing or you know, I don't. I don't know
how big of a presence the Jackson Five were in
you guys's life as far as like that's the goal
or if it was some sort of eclips it was.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It was big.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Oh sorry, no, well I'm asking like, was there a
thing like well until we reached the status of the
Jackson Five, like we haven't made it yet or that
sort of thing, And at least with the Pride Records.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
It wasn't openly said because we were kind of controlling
our We were writing our songs, we were doing our
own harmony. We didn't have a corporation like guys that
knew what they were doing, you know too, So we
learned everything. So it was like a great feeling each
(21:58):
level of it. So we wasn't even thinking. We was
just happy to be in it really and doing our
own music.
Speaker 7 (22:05):
So those prior records, was that you in the studio
like just pretty much doing everything.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
How much was that and how much?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
But Jerry Butler had three guys, well two Keg Johnson
and Jerry Peters working with his company, and he sent
them first to meet us. And he met us at
the six Flags Magic Mountain doing a show, and backstage
after the show he brought his records. I guess that
(22:34):
he wanted well that he did want us to hear
from Jerry Butler, telling him to let him hear this.
And I had my base ready in an amp and
we were all sitting in a line, well in a circle,
half circle, and we knew he was coming, so we
was prepared to play our songs. And he said, I
(22:57):
heard you all right, Keg did, and we looked at
each other and said yeah yeah, And he said, okay,
let me hear something. So we started playing Fool's Paradise
at the record first record and I start off with
the bass and and then Charmain started singing, and we
all you know, and Keg just walked over to the
(23:17):
trash can and then okay, that's one, let me hear
another one, and through through the records in the trash
in front of us. You know, we liked that we
was teenagers. We was like we looked at each other. Yeah,
so that was great. We clicked right off the bat,
you know when he did that.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
You know so well, even though buying these records and
seeing the production and stuff, I knew that you wrote
the songs, but yeah, I was trying to figure out,
like how much production control you had these songs.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
I didn't. I was learning then. I didn't want to produce.
I didn't even play on it, and I didn't want to.
He asked me did Keg was the producer, but it
was supposed to be. It was Keg and Jerry Peters
that were the producers. Jerry Butler wasn't going to produce,
but it was his company that was hired and some
(24:11):
things went down. But Keg was the producer, and he
asked me, did I want to play on it? Because
he liked everything he heard and he was worried. He
wasn't going to tell Jerry. Now I didn't notice at
the time, but he was. He wasn't going to tell
Jerry till later. Oh wo, because Jerry was busy still,
(24:33):
he was still hot with his career. He was on
tour and all that stuff. So, uh, we was actually
in the studio cutting this stuff. Before Jerry even knew
that we didn't do his record. But I didn't know this.
I just heard it from a phone conversation with my mother,
Mike Wiener, and Keg because Keg was with Jerry and
(24:57):
they were about to get rid of him. Because Jerry
came in and came down, and I remember I had
to go in the studio and he was telling me, now,
this is what I wanted y'all to do, and he
played a way worse bubblegum record than one Bad Apple,
and I like that, this was horrible. It was bubble gum.
(25:21):
So I was like, you know, I was from the
Nickason Garden and Watts, so yeah, I wasn't even trying
to hear it. But I liked Jerry Butler, so I said, well, yeah,
we're not doing that, That's all I said. I didn't
want to say nothing else because I liked him. I just,
(25:42):
you know, let me cut to the chase and I
play around. We ain't doing it, and he said, oh
why not. Yeah, it's too bubblegum, That's all I said.
And he said, oh, okay, you sure, that's all he said,
and I said yeah, and he let it go. He
just made sure everything went through his company KEG, and
(26:06):
then was gonna get fired. But I liked the way
he handled itself with us when he threw the records
in the trash, so I stood up for him. I
told him, Oh, if you get rid of KEG, we
ain't doing nothing. I didn't know what I was I was,
but I meant what I said. I was only about
what eighteen No, I was seventeen or something. But I
(26:32):
was the one that everybody was listening to, and they
like KEG, and we were doing our own things. So
I just told Mike Wiener, Hey, if you get rid
of KEG, we ain't doing nothing. We'll go somewhere else.
Speaker 7 (26:44):
Before y'all got into the studio, how were you writing
your songs like fools preadicce writing them on base at home?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
This bass? Oh, I would use the base excuse me
as a harmonic to the melody that I would sing.
Oh ways, I wouldn't do it as a you know
a lot of people stay on E for the funk
type thing. I would use it as a keyboard. I
would always play the bass of harmonic to my melody
(27:13):
and then the chords would you could you could hear
different ones you know as you listening to the melody
and the bass.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
So are a majority of the songs that you write.
Do you write it on bass? Verse before you never
on piano?
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Never on Okay, now I do because you know you
got a studio in your hand. Now you know you
could do anything really, But back then, if I did
a melody, I immediately went to the bass and did
the harmonic bass line because that was like my keyboard.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So for for those first four three or four initial
Silvers albums that didn't catch you on the way that
showcase quitte on and once you guys went to Capitol,
But was it at all shocking to you that those
records would be discovered in a new light in the
(28:10):
era of rare groove culture and hip hop sampling, Like
because even though in your mind you might think like,
oh well, okay, those first few records weren't hitting like
you know, our Capital years, But for a lot of us, yeah,
that's the holy grail. Oh my god. Yeah, I mean
the first album alone with with uh wish I could
(28:33):
talk to you. I'll never be ashamed, Like there's least
like in my eyes, like that first Silver Records has
at least six six or seven gems on it that
we see in the light of sampling and how it's
so was it at all shocking to you that, like
some thirty five years later, forty years later, that suddenly
(28:55):
like even in my DJ said like I'll play only
one can win, as so that is all?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Well? Actually I felt great. I mean it was like
an honor for And then I started thinking, how does
that happen? You know? And then I's the only thing
I could think of is Wow, it was young people
that picked that up, and I was young at the
time when I wrote it. So it's like twenty years
later that same spirit and you know, musical DNA if
(29:27):
you will, you know, only the young could hear that,
because I was like, wow, that must be it. The
same thing with mister me all those songs that were
sampled I wrote when I was younger than.
Speaker 7 (29:40):
Eighteen, right, No, that's that's a whole twenty minute conversation
just on that song.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yes, Well what's started man with? Yeah? With mistermeanor like,
how how did you come with that?
Speaker 6 (29:56):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Wow, I didn't. The base came first.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
I was just I was stomping my foot and I
was just hitting mm hmmmmm. No, I was just doing
the first one first mm hm oh. And then I
started repeating those two over and over and I would
hit my foot kind of hard on the ground like
(30:27):
a kick. And I had one of them old. It
was I think it was a Signo cassette player. They
only made one. It had one big, giant speaker. It
was a Mono radio cassette player. Man, it had the
perfect compression for that mic. Because I recorded that baseline
(30:49):
stomping my feet with that cassette. Man, it was the
best sound ever. I did everything. I went and bought
two of those.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Ye that's what the that's what the iPhone sounds like now,
and sort of I track a lot of my drums
up with the iPhone, like on the floor, like thirteen
feet away from me, and it's the same, perfect man.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So I just loved that. I kept that cassette till
it evaporated. You know. It just had that the misdemeanor
vibe on it. And I just recorded that and then
said the hook. I don't remember if I had the
words already, I did, probably did, and I was and
(31:34):
I knew because I listened to that melody lower octave
with the base and the same register, and it's wrong.
It's the most horrible melody with the baseline because it's
one of them notes that if you do an octave
high you can get away with it. It sounds cool,
almost funky, but if you do it in the same
register like an octave lower, the worst thing to your ear,
(31:58):
you couldn't. I hated it when I when I heard
it like that, but uh, I knew what I had
when I actually did the melody with the bassline, it
sounded great. I just knew I had something that would
people would like. I don't know why. It just had
a feeling y, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
And how old was Foster when he cut that?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
He was around I think ten, uh.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Turn eleven, like ten years old? Then out were you?
Were you? Because of the pristine level of musicianship that
a lot of the Pride era records were under. Were
you guys always using the same musicians in the studio
or was it did you have a relationship with these
(32:45):
musicians or was just like who's here today?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
We met him because we wanted to be at every session.
So it was mainly Chuck Rainy on bass.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Or what oh man?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Those two were the bass players those guys were just
moonlight Like no, they were the top.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
But well, I'm just saying like, well, like yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Well, Keig Keg and Jerry Peters they were real good
producers back then. They did uh, Gray, what's that song
that friends of Friends of distinct? Yeah, they did that
and uh you got me go in and and so
Keig Johnson and Jerry Peters were formidable producers themselves. So
(33:32):
and Jerry Peters was great keyboardist and arranger. So they
knew all the top musicians and I'd go to every session.
David t was main guitar. Uh Felder. They switch up
on keyboard guys because there was a lot of them,
but it was always kind of jazz oriented. Guys still alive,
(33:53):
Yes he is.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wait, uh, it's just hit me. Was it one of
your brothers or or three? Somehow? You guys were actually
involved in the Jackson five cartoon Edmund.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
He was Marlon's voice.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Here's a voice of you. You mentioned something, well, a
lot of us are not California residents, but I have
family out here. And you said Nickerson Nickerson Gardens, which
instantly struck fear in my heart. I was like, okay,
(34:31):
hands up, Yeah, well, a lot of the We're All
in the Same Gang video was shot there. How yeah,
how knowing what I know about, you know, LA gang
culture and that stuff, especially that being the most notorious
(34:53):
housing projects in l A. How did the eleven of
you escape that unscathed? Was it just like leave the
silvers alone, like they're going to make it one day?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Or well, no, we you know, you had to kind
of get busy.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
But it's like, Okay, we're going to do soul Tree
one day and then come back and you got to
fight your way inside your crib or.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
No, actually we were. We were singing then, we were
learning and building our our voices then. And I was
going to verbum Day High School. It was a Catholic
school in the in the middle of watts and it
was the Nickerson Garden was around it actually, and I
(35:39):
went there to play basketball because I got a little
scholarship there. And we entered a talent show from verbum
Day and actually before the Brothers Johnson's name was Brothers Johnson.
They were in that talent show too, wow, and they
won their place. No, they didn't even go to the
(36:00):
but you could if you had somebody that did, you
could be in that talent show and we didn't have
no band. We were just doing a cappella. So we
put put about seven or eight chairs and put a
one leg on the chair and appella. You know. So
(36:21):
we we got one second place. But there was a
guy named Wylie Brooks there and he came up to
us and said, I have a friend at MGM.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
You know that reminds me who arranged your version of yesterday?
That that all acapella?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Who did that? I think? I think did we do
it ourselves? I think we did. I can't remember anybody else.
Oh no, there wasn't a arranger that helped us. When
we were doing our show for Las Vegas, George something.
He helped us out. But then we changed it and.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
So you guys would still do the the a cappella
beatles yesterday just the way that.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah, we we We did our show at the Rolls
a couple of months ago and we kept that in
the show. We put that back in the show.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
That that is like, yeah a lot of people, that's
the most jaw dropping. Were you professionally taught eventually how
to notate music or was.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
It just like I don't know how to read it all. Wow,
dog man, I'm gonna learn though too.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So even on the base that was just our self taught.
You talked yourself.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Oh yeah, I was. I was into jameson that. That
was the teacher right there.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Well from me, can we go to the years capital
trying to So how did the MG situation? Well, not implode,
but how did you guys eventually get the attention of
Capitol records. I don't really remember too much.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Except that.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Who's managing the group.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
At when we were on Pride it was a manager
called Nordy Stein. He would always try to chime in
and then when we didn't react fast, he would say,
it's just a thought leon. So we knew Nordy Stein
like that. But he was cool. He got gigs, and
(38:39):
I didn't. I liked him. Really.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
How how are you guys able to keep the discipline
of the group? I mean, because again, it's nine of you,
and you are going into uncharted territory of stardom, and
you're in Hollywood and you know obviously I mean, I
(39:02):
don't know if you're the father figure of the group,
but I would assume that as the eldest brother you
had to keep Oh yeah, it was in line, and
you know.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
It was I didn't believe in nothing halfway. And I
was a good disciplinary and I mean Foster he was
the only one that really showed because he was into
football like I was into basketball. So he didn't want
to practice at all when and he would cry and
(39:30):
try to get out of it, you know that kind
of stuff. But he eventually came through. But I would
do like, hey, I ain't getting on stage getting booed ever,
so y'all, let's let's go practice. And we had the
Jackson's to look up to as far as steps, professionalism
and it, but they were they were worked through professionalisms
(39:54):
and professional people.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I gotta ask you a question, okay U, because I
mean I haven't seen you guys on Soul trained billions
of times and you know all your steps are immaculating
and all those things. Did you guys ever work with
Charlie Atkins? Oh?
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, yeah, that was Arlie that that move on Boogie Fever,
that first move. We we usually would change certain steps
because some of them guys would get a little too feminine,
and you know, we from the niggas and guns, so
we'd be like, okay, don't worry about that we.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Changed that, but.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Child, yeah, well sometimes it was you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
and we didn't we knew which which one to edit
out and to put in. But Charlie's step, I said,
oh no, that ain't going nowhere. You got to keep that,
you know, just don't fall because it'll be a domino theory.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Because it's so amazing to see the nine of y'all
do it. Okay, here's the thing, as as the soul
trained attict that I am, the first minute of the
show to me is the most important part of the
show because it's when sim McCoy's gonna let you know
who's on the show with guest stars, you know. And
the thing is when they show the act that's on.
(41:14):
You know, it's usually just a one and a half
second or two second action shot. And as a kid
not knowing who the Silvers were, and it was like
with guest stars the Silvers and all of a sudden,
see I just never that was the most magical thing.
(41:35):
And the thing was its like before the age of
the VCR and that stuff. I mean, I had to
suffer for like twenty years just waiting to see the game,
imagining that thing and begging people like, do you know
doncran News can't just get the episode. They're finally like
finding that episode in Japan, like some twenty five years later. Man,
I wanted the ball like a baby. But yeah, like
(41:57):
the steps were so maculate and but again it's like
how it's like one false one false move and it's
down here like one person went to the left one.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
But like whoa, yeah, but we staggered it because we
we learned okay, no no straight lines. It's just so
they'd stagger them, like being if the first one, second,
one's a little back, third one's up back, that kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
What would y'all rehearsed at at this time?
Speaker 3 (42:28):
At this point, we had a garage that we turned
into a little studio because I had a four track studio.
Uh back then it was kind of big, but it
was four tracks. So we rehearsed their steps and are
songs you know, and uh in the garage. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Describe working with Freddy Parrin, who did he produce the
first Capitol record?
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Yes, Uh, that was that's what I learned production. Why
not you like I learned well, it's I mean, he
was he was great. I learned a lot from him,
but he did kind of take one of our songs. Oh,
but I mean it was like it's like we got
through it and we were still cool laughter. Because it
(43:17):
was a song called Stealing from the Cookie Jar. Wow
I was the title of it, and the bass line was.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom
boom boom boom boom boom.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I went jazz on it on that third part. Freddy,
after he played the song and we sung it was
going off and he said, uh, play that back, and
that part We remember him playing it back because we thought, oh,
Freddy likes, he's gonna choose this one type thing. Then
(43:52):
a couple of weeks later he called us up and Hotline.
He played Hotline for us and Jenny your song and
it well, the baseline.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Was boom boom boom boom doom doo doo doo doo
doo doo.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
And he went back to But Jonathan and Ricky, my brothers,
they were like, hey, and and uh with my man
who wrote it with Freddy, great writer, he said he
did like this. Yeah, yeah, it's almost like you did.
(44:29):
Uh that was you know, but I mean we got
past it because I was thinking, okay, if we the
record ain't out yet, y'all Ken Lewis, Kenny Saint Louis, Yeah,
great writer. He I thought it was kind of funny
because I was happy because Wow, I did something that
(44:51):
dude liked. But it was like we were minors. Well
I wasn't, but but Jonathan and them still were, and
they were the one more active on doing something about it.
And I said, well, you know what, let's just leave
it alone because you can't copyright a bassline. I mean,
(45:13):
either it's arrangement or because I found out, you know,
and then the record ain't made nothing yet. So if
we stopped the process Freddie panning him going back off,
then Capitol Records may drop us. Let's go on and
let Freddy do his thing. It's not like he took
our song. It's just a bassline he got an idea
from because it's not exactly the same. So I convinced
(45:36):
him to say, oh, okay, you know, because it could
have been a bad situation because we I was about
sixteen or seventeen then, so and Freddie was already uh oh,
you know, but he didn't steal nothing. Really, it was
just an idea that he took because my song was
totally different melody wise. So but we know how that
(46:00):
goes now when your food for thought, you know what
I'm saying. But I let it go and we had
a great rapport with Freddy, and I learned a lot
from him because he would work on one line at
every point of the song. And one time he's working
so hard on one record on the hotline, and I
(46:20):
just thought he was crazy. I was just what the
what is he thinking? So at the end, I said,
why did you go over that one so much? And
he said, well, you know how you hear records sometimes
and every part you start liking better and better. Sometimes
(46:40):
it happens like Magic's my and then other times you
set up your chorus better, you set up your ad
lib better, and it's like people listening don't know they
why they like the song better, and you get more
people and the more you hear it, the more you
like that part. And I still thought he was crazy.
I said, oh okay, and then it got me performing it.
(47:02):
When you you know, when you start performing, you there's
certain things you know already, so it's like second nature.
But in a certain part of a song you like better,
and I said, oh, I like this part, and then
it hit me that's the So I was like, okay,
I got to listen to this guy.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
You know, can you tell the day Tripper story?
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Oh yeah, yeah that I mean that was kind of
a hard part of my life. I thought I had
messed up because this uh reporter for the Times, Hunt
is his name, he was he was a he put
he cut up my words and acted like I was
(47:43):
downing Freddy Parent because I said I had told him, well,
I don't like the assembly line production attitude, but I
was talking about other producers. And then I said, but
Freddy Parent, he listens to my He left that ship
out and put Leon's tired of the assembly line production attitude,
(48:05):
and then he put in there Freddy Pearn's name after
talking about something else. Then he said, I quote and said, well,
boogiey Fever's cool, but that's for kids. I don't like
boogie fever like in passing, laughing like, but but it
was a hit and it did good for us. He
left that out and put Leon right after the assembly
line production attitude.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
And I was sounded like a hater that mean man. Sorry, Yeah,
but also U was that the first time? That was
(48:46):
that the first time you got to meet James Jamerson,
Like that's him playing the baseline of Boogie Fever. Correct, No,
that's not James Jamerson.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
No, it was either Wilton Felder or Truck Rainey.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Okay, wait, pretty parent, I could have sworn that. No,
I never met him. I was at every session I think.
Was I a Bookie?
Speaker 6 (49:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:12):
I was there. No, it wasn't James Jamison. Wow, think
that's on his UH discography whatever the on the website.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
I may not have been at Bookie Fever's session. I
was at the vocal thing, so it could have been.
Could have been that. I may not have been there
on that one.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Was on James Jamison's page that well, then damn. I
thought it was a moment like, hey, I've always left
your base player. No, have you ever got to meet him?
Speaker 3 (49:37):
I didn't really meet him, and I was mad when
I you know, because I always wanted to. I'd even
called a couple of UH session that a person thought
that he was playing on because he had came out
to l a excuse me. By the time I got there,
the session was over, and you know, I was trying
(49:58):
to just go bump into him and and just say
because I never told him face to face, he's the
reason I started bass. I mean, I got a guitar.
We was doing a show when we was the Little
Angels at that it was called the Moula Rouge. I
think back then, I don't know. It was that that
building that Nickelodeon was in for a while on Sunset.
(50:22):
They had a Christmas party and it was us and
Dennis the Mints the original original Yeah, and we were
backstays throwing a football and then they called us on
stage and gave us a present. At the end, I
got a guitar and I took the two high strings
off because I was so into motown and I used
it as a bass That's how much I was a
(50:43):
bass player. I wanted to be a bass player period.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Wow. So was it New Horizons that you guys like
decided to take control of the production and like, where
does on silver is finally stepping and say.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
Oh, yeah, I forgot I got that.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
That was.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
When they were telling me about boogiey Fever and I said,
I said, and passing, I said, well that that's that's
I think they got that from the Beatles. Anyway, because
that's a day tripper. So you can do a little
bit and cut it off because I think back then
the copyright was in bars. How much you did the
(51:35):
exact same thing within a certain amount of bars and
if you change it before that bar hit straight. Yeah,
so that's after the stealing from the cookie jar concept.
We thought, you know boogie well, No, that was after
so well we we I just assumed that they peeped
it because I used to peep things. But I would
(51:56):
never be that blatant with it. I would just into
a vibe and do my own, you know, of a
song because there was a lot of motown ones that
I loved, and you know, I would do my version,
but not blatantly copy the bass or the chords or
I didn't want to do that because I like my
(52:17):
own ideas.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
So it was capital or ATV music, like hey wait
a minute, or what went on the like did they
notice at all? Like no, because he changed it before
the bar before that? Was it totally?
Speaker 7 (52:35):
In your recording sessions, what was your what was your
approach or your science to tracking the vocals and like
tracking the harmonies. Would you cut everybody on like one
mic and y'all sing around it or did you track
them individually?
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Well, back then we did sometimes the girls on one
mic and then the guy's on one mic, but it
was all at the same time. Okay, I think I
don't remember us separating back then like later on, you know,
when I was producing then, I did that stacking thing different,
(53:10):
But back then we were. They just would tell us okay, girls,
Charmaine back or Oland back, and when we all they
sung on one mic and then they would separate us
with lowse and mid and highs. Freddy I mean, yeah,
Freddy Parron and keg.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
So for the New Horizons record, and that meant a
lot to me because I was given that eight track
when I was like six, so I wow. I studied
it profusely, but uh, I know that it didn't reach
the level of the Something Special album and showcase. And
knowing that you guys left Capital after then, is it
(53:55):
implied that, okay, well, since it was the minist return
or lower sales for this one, that you guys are
just off the label or was it because Lark and
Arnold left the Good Columbia.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
I think probably, Well, usually when the ANR guy leaves
back then a lot people who the new A and
I want to bring their own in so and you
can only have so many artists at the so if
you don't like the group, everything you know stops right there.
(54:29):
And our last it makes it easier for him because
our last green sheet didn't.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
Show too much.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
So and that's you know, I'm assuming that that's what
it was, and that was Capital. I feel they made
a mistake though, but that was in learning because we
cut this song called what's it at the concert or off? Yeah,
(55:00):
I got cut.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
We cut that way before any.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Rider came out. It sat on Capital. I even called
the Capital everybody from all the secretaries to come in
after the after they were old, you know, they were
done with their work, and said we went down to
each office and said come on up. We wanted we
need a crowd, and everybody came and we had them
(55:27):
doing O. Then we had them do don't.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
Stop, get off.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
We had that whole crowd thing.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
And so you recorded that way before nineteen seventy eight,
Well that was the first one. That was the first
that was on the disco Fever album.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
But no, but I'm saying when we heard like we
came from Japan and went to straight. I wanted to
get home because we got tickets for that brothers Johnson
Brick and Georgia Duke concert Man at the Forum, so
we wanted to make that and I got We got
back in town and I just heard everybody going.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
It was the crowd doing it. And I said, what
what is that? And they said, whoa, that's what they
do now when they like something. Wow.
Speaker 3 (56:12):
So I said, oh, the crowd likes something already, let's
put that old record and you know, so that's what
I did. But and I told Larkin, this is what
the people are doing. So we we guaranteed certain mind
of sales. When the public likes something that they done
created and they hear it back on them, they it's
a Dundell. Nobody listened. That thing sat for about two years,
(56:36):
about four or five hits with and ours was the last,
and it still went number one R and B.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
You know. So, so even though you weren't because I
know by this time UH you had formed with UH
or at least took it a day job with Dick Griffy,
but you were still were you actively producing your your
(57:04):
family's albums while still no, you weren't a member. You
weren't a full member of these Castablanca records.
Speaker 3 (57:13):
No, no, no, I was out the group then, So
how does that?
Speaker 1 (57:17):
How does that work? Because you know, you gotta start
off as a nine and then like then you were seven,
and it's like, how how do band members just leaving?
Like I can't take it anymore?
Speaker 3 (57:29):
And that's no, I was kicked out of the group.
Speaker 6 (57:36):
Wait what Yeah?
Speaker 1 (57:38):
It was it was like, you know, did they blame
you for New Horizons?
Speaker 3 (57:42):
No, no, I don't. It wasn't that.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
It's just I think everybody was growing there.
Speaker 3 (57:48):
They wanted to do a step. Everybody wanted to do
their own you know. Well, because I was like, I
took the approach as as leader when we was okay,
what everybody got? I always and I took that into production.
I give everybody a chance to let me see what
you got, do it. Let's do whether it's some melody
or ad lib whatever. I just prepared myself to come
(58:10):
with it if they ain't got nothing that's worth anything.
So and you have to use tact because I feel
producers have to be psychologists babysitters.
Speaker 7 (58:19):
At some point the same thing. Last night, he said
those exact same words about producers. It's babysitting. Psychology is
counselors exactly.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
So by this point, who do you of your siblings?
Speaker 6 (58:34):
Like, who's.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
Who's are you in conflict with? Is it? Like you know, Angela,
you you're singing them wrong? Note you sing too flatter.
Speaker 3 (58:44):
There wasn't no one person other than you know, when
people get tired and they don't even know why, they
just want something different because I don't. It didn't matter
what word I said, even when it's okay, let's see
what and then they come up with something. And then
if there's silence, you know, someone else comes up with
(59:04):
an idea, you know, so I would always do it
what about? And then I'd already have something prepared and
they was, ooh that's nice. All they took. It was
two or three of them, you know, so and it
was a lot of us. So I based everything off that.
And then if something's not happening, I didn't even have
to say I don't like that to steer the crowd.
(59:26):
They would say it, or they would say, well I
don't know about that, and then you just keep coming
with it, which is the way it should be anyway,
the best idea coming forward. But after a while, they
were growing into what I already was. I was past minor,
and I was developing my own thing, and everybody wanted
(59:48):
to do their thing, I guess because and then when
I had that meeting with them with al Ross, he
was well, he did said like this, he had a
contract on us for half and it was nine people
plus my mother. Oh, and that's true, So that that's
(01:00:11):
why I said what I said. But I had a
meeting to try to and I told everybody, look, you
guys are miners. He's not gonna want a chance or
show that contract to nobody, so all we have to
do is and I told mom just be cool, because
I was already eighteen then, you know, so you know,
I knew, you know, we'll just kicked me on off
the group and we're straight, you know. But I was
(01:00:34):
telling them how we we had a meeting and he
got up. Everything was working until he got up out
of the seat and said, Leon, I don't know what
you think you're doing or who you think you're talking to,
and that kind of thing. And I was like, I
forgot to tell moms. Look, if he gets up and
walks and I get up, don't worry I'm not going
(01:00:56):
to hit him. I'm going to wait for him to
hit me. Then it's really on. So I forgot to
do that with her. So me from Nickerson gun, I
ain't gonna let no man stand over me while I'm sitting.
So when he got up and started walking around the table,
I got up and was smiling. I thought that was enough.
I said, so what, you're getting up for a while,
(01:01:18):
And then I stood up and walked to meet him.
And that's and when he stopped and sat on the desk,
that's when Mom said, Okay, that's it. Stop, that's end there,
and he knew what was up. Then, oh there's the way,
okay cool. So from then on out, I was the
bad guy. It didn't Mom was scared too, And that's moms.
(01:01:42):
I couldn't get mad at her because I wasn't, you know.
But I knew we had that meeting, and after that happened,
he was I knew he was in her ear. And
that's when I After I was out the group, I
went hooked up with Dick Griffy.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Okay, before we get to the Solar years, because I
know you're bursting, I have one more question. What were
your feelings on
Of course, Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This
classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Without
no doubt, this gentleman that would bring into the table
is responsible for some of the best music you've ever danced,
ever listened to. Of Course, these talented family, the Silver's family,
(00:25):
have been in our lives for so long. They're amazing harmonies.
Of course, him branching out on his own to do
production for like The Whispers, Shallamar, Lakeside, Evelin, Champion King,
so many, so many groups, so many groups, just this
classic sound of boogie, you know, kind of hosting disco,
(00:47):
and we call it book. He's one of the greatest
and so so so happy that he took time out
to come speak to us. This is Leon Silvers, the third.
This is from January thirty first, twenty eighteen lest classic.
Here we Go.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Supremo something So Supremo. Role called Supremo Sun Sun Supremo.
Role Call, Supremo Son Son Supremo, Roll Call, Supremo Son
Son Supremo roll Call.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I got nothing, Yeah, no, really, I got nothing. Yeah,
I'm sober whelmed by grands. I have nothing.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Sprema So Supremo roll call Suprema Son Son Suppremo Ro.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Wait a minute, Yeah, let's see how I sound. Yeah,
Now do I sound better?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
The second time.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Fund Sun Supremo role called Supremo Sun Son Supremo role
call my.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Name is Fante. Yeah, call me your friend. Yeah, because
it's not too Yeah. Only one can win.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Supremo Road Suprema So Supremo Road Suprema.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
The show to be on. Yeah, let's put some tea on.
Yeah and talk to missus Silver.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Supremo, Son Son sup Roll Mulesman struggling. Yeah, to write
these rhymes. Yeah, almost called a ghost writer. Yeah, on
the hotline.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Son Son Supremo Roll Call Supremo.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Roll it's my em Yeah. And I ain't feeling bad yeah,
Leon Silvers.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, got me think about DC Cab.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So Supreme Road Supremo.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
Yeah yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
So frame.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Up frame, Roll up up up frame.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Ladies and gentlemen. That was the greatest contribution ever, ever
ever to to.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
Okay, dude, I'm sweating over here.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know, I know we're nervous about this episode because
we didn't mock like you normally. We mocked like you
is intro and we we you caught a break this
time because you came through with the DC that was
he went real deeper that that. Okay, look, I'm just
(04:02):
putting it out there. We're just gonna go all over
the place because the reason why I feel as though
we commit to the show. Yes, you know, we're about
the whatever, the teaching of excellence and bringing people and
exposing him to the audience, you know, to audience that
(04:22):
might not know him, stuff like that. But just sometimes
you just want to nerd out on your favorite and
I there's so much. There's not enough that I can
say about the gentleman that we have with us right now.
I can say that, you know, he is. I mean,
(04:44):
he's such a genius in every area that he's ever
done in crafting harmonies and his musicianship and his songwriting.
I mean he damned near it invented a genre of music.
He killed disco. He literally killed this of all the
like he invented genres, and he inspired some of our
(05:08):
greatest I told Jimmy Jam that he was coming on
our show, and even Jimmy Jam had to bow down
because of all that he learned from this man. I'm
about to start crying right now. Ladies and gentlemen, please
welcome to the show, Leon Silvers. Yes, man, you don't
(05:31):
know how happy we are right now, Like we're just
shout out to dang funk shout the day funk. Yeah.
We have so many questions about your life, Like I've
never idolized someone so much that I really don't know
(05:51):
that much about because you rarely did interviews and things
like that that matter. But let's just should we rapid fire?
Do we?
Speaker 6 (06:00):
Just we?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I want to go, Let's go through the journey. Okay,
now I'm gonna say it. Let's start at the beginning.
You all got to be proud of me. I haven't
said that in a while, but this time. Okay. So uh,
I believe your entire family is from Tennessee. Correct, Uh,
please be wrong?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Suck everybody except me Fastergian Pat.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Where were you born?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I was born in South Ben, Indiana. Oh yes, My
father was going to college out there and my mother
and I was born on the campus and only stayed
there three days after I was born, So I know
nothing about South Ben, Indiana.
Speaker 6 (06:46):
I was.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I was born there for three days. I was there
for three years. Wait, you born in South ben Memorial Hospital. Wow,
that's amazing, That's that's crazy. Yeah, So just I just
want to know it all, like talk about the beginnings
(07:07):
in Tennessee and how music entered into the household.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Well about Tennessee, I can't remember too much except Roy Rogers,
so I was too. After about two years, we hit
the train and came to LA. I think I was
two or three years old, and La is where everything
started the Motown sound for me.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Why did you guys move to Los Angeles?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I think my father got a gig at what is it, uh,
some kind of space company something. He was doing some
kind of work I couldn't remember, but he his work
brought us out there. And everybody wasn't born yet. It
(08:02):
was just myself, Charmaine.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Charmaine Charmaine is the eldest sister and you're the eldest brother.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
No, Olympia is the oldest of the family. Olympia and
then myself, Charmaine and James Jonathan. Uh, that was who
was only four of us when we went to LA
and it started with me was the Motown sound. I
was into James Jamison on bass period and Benny Benjamin
(08:34):
the drums. Uh, And that was my start in music.
I was taking hangers acting like high hats. I took
the drum, the little broom the sweeping part, used that
as a rim and snare, and the box spring I
used as a kick drum. And that's how I started
(08:54):
music right there.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
You know, that's where most people would take the broom
and make that to a guitar. You thought to make that?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Was were there any adults that were musicians that were
influential in your life at that point.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Where no, I'm just Jamison and Benny Benjamin. I didn't
know nobody yet. That was only about six or seven
there at seven.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
What was it about that music that called you the bass?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I got a guitar when I was like, we did
we just did four part harmony because I was teaching
everybody this lower Scudder's commercial back in the day. And
my brother was three years old, but he held four
part harmony. So we was doing this Lower Scudder's commercial,
and my father heard us and started teaching us some
(09:46):
four freshman type harmony back in the day at high
lows and all that, and so we did it real easy,
and he got a manager and they put us on
we were called the Little Angel, right, and they put us
on Spike Jones arc Link letters show all these names
from back in the day. And that's where my brother,
(10:11):
he was three when we did our first TV show,
and he held he gave everybody our parts when we
forgot him, so he As far as harmony is concerned.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
How did you guys even know how to notate harmony?
Because well, one thing I think our audience should know
is I feel like the the one distinction that separated
you guys from any of your contemporaries Jackson Stair Steps,
(10:42):
whoever was young at that time, was you guys had
the most unusual harmony structures ever? Was that from not knowing?
Like who taught you those dissonant and chromatic harmonies that
weren't average?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And I think, well, my father was into the four
Freshmen and the high lows and all that. So he
he saw us doing three part harmony and one lead
on this Laura scuddis commercial and I gave him their parts,
but it was, you know, simple stuff like you know,
and he saw we can hold a note, not get off,
(11:21):
So he started giving us harder songs, songs like It's
a Blue World and well, I forgot the name of
those songs, but uh it was four and five part harmony,
and we stayed on it and didn't get off. I
don't know why. My mother could have been an opera singer.
She was studying for a minute, So I guess that's
(11:44):
why we uh we just felt we can do it,
and we just did it. You know. It wasn't no
why or whatever. We just did it, stayed on the notes.
And I actually was the worst holding the note. Yeah, James,
this was the best, and then it was Charmaine, then Olympia.
(12:07):
Than me, I was last. I always forget my note,
you know. But James had the ear for holding the notes,
and he was the youngest.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
What year was this this was?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I was like I was like seven six, but.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I mean, like in what year was it?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Like probably sixty fifty nine or something like. I was
born in fifty three, so okay, around fifty nine or
something like that or sixty.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So there wasn't even a template out at the time
to or besides maybe Frankie Lymon and the teenagers, which
is more like fifty seven to fifty, but there were
no kids groups or that sort.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Of thing to no, just Frankie Lyman, what's your name?
Sound kind of like a kid little Anthony back then imperiods.
I listened to him for a minute.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, so were you guys instantly in pursuit of the
next level? Was just to find a record deal? Or
was it just like we did this television show and
that's it.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Well, back then we didn't have no leads. It was
off harmony, so we would just stand there and sing,
no personality, no charisma or nothing, just singing holding the notes.
And we were so young that I guess the crowd
thought it was amazing that we were singing that kind
of stuff, But we was just ready to get off
the stage and go play kind of thing. But I
(13:29):
loved music. I was the one teaching them and actually
sometime making.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Them saying but.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I got into the motown thing, and then from there
we didn't get into seriously making moves to record companies
till I was around I guess thirteen or fourteen or fifteen,
something like that, because that's when when the Jacksons came out.
(14:00):
That's when I got serious and I started teaching that
when my brother, because he had the most powerful voice
and I was he said, I can't say. I said, well,
just nothing again, you won't do nothing unless you practice it.
He had the tone. So I work with him every
day and practice till after a year or so he
(14:22):
was riffing and all that.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
You know, So all your brothers and sisters are literally
coming out the wound one by one during this period.
You're just waiting for them to get of age.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
And like everybody, there was nobody that came in my
family that couldn't hold a harmony. They could do that
before they could do a lead. We had to practice
our leads.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
So as far as when they give them apart, they'd
hold it and we sing to somebody else's part, they
would keep it and never blend into the other person's
part or anything like that. We all had that, I guess.
But the leads we had to work on, and worked
him and Foster. But Edmund worked the hardest. Uh and
(15:05):
his tone reaped the benefits because I worked at it
at home. And then when we got with Freddie Perrin, uh,
he heard Edmans's voice right off the bat.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So, but that was the one in the Capitol years.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I'm jumping too fast, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So what label was pride associated with? MGM.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, a friend of Mike Curb, which was Mike Wiener Curb.
Mike Curb was running MGM when we were signed, and
he was only twenty four years old.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Wait, so the Mike Curb congregation.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
That's one of my favorite breakdingwsime exactly, the coming down. Yeah,
oh my god. Yeah, he was cool. He was the
one that really hit me with the commercial thing because
I was doing I was really kind of into back
then that social conscious type writing, the you know, because
(16:05):
the Black Panthers was out and all that stuff, so
socially conscious music was kind of in, and I was
into that from a third grip from this history teacher,
Mr Simon. But he was the one who told me, well, Leon,
your music has to be more commercial, you know. And
(16:27):
I was on that tip, like, well, what do you know?
You only do pop music, you know, you know, because
we knew how more. I mean, MGM was as far
as motown was. And he's like, you're right, but even
if I do pop music, it has to be commercial.
You're doing R and B, it's got to be as commercial.
(16:47):
And I didn't want to hear that, but I did,
and I started changing after I had that meeting because
he wanted to give He made up pride after that.
It's all. He told us to do this song called
what It Takes, an old Barry Gordy song, and he
wanted us to do it, and we did it, and
(17:08):
it you know, it wasn't nothing. You know, it didn't
do nothing. And this meeting with me, I didn't know
it at the time, was to get inside whoever was
the head of leader of the group type of thing.
And I was more like trying to tell him, we
know what we're do and just let us do it,
(17:29):
because I realized they put us on the shelf for
the Osmonds because they didn't right, Yeah, but we didn't
know that when we signed and they didn't tell, you know,
we just we didn't have no records out for a year.
We didn't even go in the studio for a long
time after the Osmonds was out. But you know, I
(17:50):
understand the marketing thing, you know, uh, they didn't want
no other competition out there, and we were a family
group that could sing harmony and all that, so they
signed us.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Well, then I gotta ask then if because I know
with one bad Apple not At one point did MGM say, hmm,
this sounds close like ABC. All right, Silvers, here you go,
like this should be for you instead of the Osmonds.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Or no, the Odumans were signed already and they were
specially targeted to be the off the other side, a
white group family group and a black family group. That
was I understand the marketing after, but we didn't know
that was the case till, like, you know, years later,
And I didn't believe it even after people was telling
(18:37):
me because I wasn't caring about that, you know, as
long as we can come out, that was my thing.
So their whole thing was done, and all of a
sudden we heard them out and he was on MGM.
Nothing was told or anything, and it just came out,
you know, And I actually liked the record. I thought
it was you know. But Mike Curb was cool because
(18:59):
he made up pride and well he got his friend
Michael Veener to uh credible bar because incredible bargle man.
Oh yeah yeah, and that was a funny story too.
But he they were schoolmates, Curb and Mike Veener, and
he always wanted to get into the record business and
(19:20):
Mike Curb gave him that shot and gave us put
us on another label because MGM was more pop than anything.
They never had no R and B groups on MGM,
so Pride was the label that he put us on.
Got a well KEG. Johnson got a black promoter and
(19:42):
Mike Veener was the head of Pride and we hit
with Fool's Paradise our first record. Well there was R
and B hit, you know, I didn't get no pop play,
but uh, that was that. And when we started practicing,
we went on the road and things were happening quick
because we had the big naturals and people automatically oh
(20:05):
another Jackson's and we had the bigger naturals. So can you.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Clear how those your actual naturals home?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, okay, I had to know it for his weeks
or not because they were so perfect. The Silvers Afros
for me, the real standard of the Afro, not the
Jackson five like that. You know.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Well, we we had a concept. I thought, if you
would we would go to bed instead of with the
natural flattening it up, we would brush our hair up
and take rubber bands and have a unicorn going up
and to sleep like that. And we took the rubber
bands off, it would just lay out like that.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Wow, so that was our natural secrets revealed. You think,
I ain't gonna do this, only braid my hair so
can have that effect. I was like, damn, I could
just unicorm shit, you're fired, thank you? Oh man? So
(21:05):
h knowing or you know, I don't. I don't know
how big of a presence the Jackson Five were in
you guys's life as far as like that's the goal
or if it was some sort of eclips it was.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It was big.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Oh sorry, no, well I'm asking like, was there a
thing like well until we reached the status of the
Jackson Five, like we haven't made it yet or that
sort of thing, And at least with the Pride Records.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
It wasn't openly said because we were kind of controlling
our We were writing our songs, we were doing our
own harmony. We didn't have a corporation like guys that
knew what they were doing, you know too, So we
learned everything. So it was like a great feeling each
(21:58):
level of it. So we wasn't even thinking. We was
just happy to be in it really and doing our
own music.
Speaker 7 (22:05):
So those prior records, was that you in the studio
like just pretty much doing everything.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
How much was that and how much?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
But Jerry Butler had three guys, well two Keg Johnson
and Jerry Peters working with his company, and he sent
them first to meet us. And he met us at
the six Flags Magic Mountain doing a show, and backstage
after the show he brought his records. I guess that
(22:34):
he wanted well that he did want us to hear
from Jerry Butler, telling him to let him hear this.
And I had my base ready in an amp and
we were all sitting in a line, well in a circle,
half circle, and we knew he was coming, so we
was prepared to play our songs. And he said, I
(22:57):
heard you all right, Keg did, and we looked at
each other and said yeah yeah, And he said, okay,
let me hear something. So we started playing Fool's Paradise
at the record first record and I start off with
the bass and and then Charmain started singing, and we
all you know, and Keg just walked over to the
(23:17):
trash can and then okay, that's one, let me hear
another one, and through through the records in the trash
in front of us. You know, we liked that we
was teenagers. We was like we looked at each other. Yeah,
so that was great. We clicked right off the bat,
you know when he did that.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
You know so well, even though buying these records and
seeing the production and stuff, I knew that you wrote
the songs, but yeah, I was trying to figure out,
like how much production control you had these songs.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
I didn't. I was learning then. I didn't want to produce.
I didn't even play on it, and I didn't want to.
He asked me did Keg was the producer, but it
was supposed to be. It was Keg and Jerry Peters
that were the producers. Jerry Butler wasn't going to produce,
but it was his company that was hired and some
(24:11):
things went down. But Keg was the producer, and he
asked me, did I want to play on it? Because
he liked everything he heard and he was worried. He
wasn't going to tell Jerry. Now I didn't notice at
the time, but he was. He wasn't going to tell
Jerry till later. Oh wo, because Jerry was busy still,
(24:33):
he was still hot with his career. He was on
tour and all that stuff. So, uh, we was actually
in the studio cutting this stuff. Before Jerry even knew
that we didn't do his record. But I didn't know this.
I just heard it from a phone conversation with my mother,
Mike Wiener, and Keg because Keg was with Jerry and
(24:57):
they were about to get rid of him. Because Jerry
came in and came down, and I remember I had
to go in the studio and he was telling me, now,
this is what I wanted y'all to do, and he
played a way worse bubblegum record than one Bad Apple,
and I like that, this was horrible. It was bubble gum.
(25:21):
So I was like, you know, I was from the
Nickason Garden and Watts, so yeah, I wasn't even trying
to hear it. But I liked Jerry Butler, so I said, well, yeah,
we're not doing that, That's all I said. I didn't
want to say nothing else because I liked him. I just,
(25:42):
you know, let me cut to the chase and I
play around. We ain't doing it, and he said, oh
why not. Yeah, it's too bubblegum, That's all I said.
And he said, oh, okay, you sure, that's all he said,
and I said yeah, and he let it go. He
just made sure everything went through his company KEG, and
(26:06):
then was gonna get fired. But I liked the way
he handled itself with us when he threw the records
in the trash, so I stood up for him. I
told him, Oh, if you get rid of KEG, we
ain't doing nothing. I didn't know what I was I was,
but I meant what I said. I was only about
what eighteen No, I was seventeen or something. But I
(26:32):
was the one that everybody was listening to, and they
like KEG, and we were doing our own things. So
I just told Mike Wiener, Hey, if you get rid
of KEG, we ain't doing nothing. We'll go somewhere else.
Speaker 7 (26:44):
Before y'all got into the studio, how were you writing
your songs like fools preadicce writing them on base at home?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
This bass? Oh, I would use the base excuse me
as a harmonic to the melody that I would sing.
Oh ways, I wouldn't do it as a you know
a lot of people stay on E for the funk
type thing. I would use it as a keyboard. I
would always play the bass of harmonic to my melody
(27:13):
and then the chords would you could you could hear
different ones you know as you listening to the melody
and the bass.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
So are a majority of the songs that you write.
Do you write it on bass? Verse before you never
on piano?
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Never on Okay, now I do because you know you
got a studio in your hand. Now you know you
could do anything really, But back then, if I did
a melody, I immediately went to the bass and did
the harmonic bass line because that was like my keyboard.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So for for those first four three or four initial
Silvers albums that didn't catch you on the way that
showcase quitte on and once you guys went to Capitol,
But was it at all shocking to you that those
records would be discovered in a new light in the
(28:10):
era of rare groove culture and hip hop sampling, Like
because even though in your mind you might think like,
oh well, okay, those first few records weren't hitting like
you know, our Capital years, But for a lot of us, yeah,
that's the holy grail. Oh my god. Yeah, I mean
the first album alone with with uh wish I could
(28:33):
talk to you. I'll never be ashamed, Like there's least
like in my eyes, like that first Silver Records has
at least six six or seven gems on it that
we see in the light of sampling and how it's
so was it at all shocking to you that, like
some thirty five years later, forty years later, that suddenly
(28:55):
like even in my DJ said like I'll play only
one can win, as so that is all?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Well? Actually I felt great. I mean it was like
an honor for And then I started thinking, how does
that happen? You know? And then I's the only thing
I could think of is Wow, it was young people
that picked that up, and I was young at the
time when I wrote it. So it's like twenty years
later that same spirit and you know, musical DNA if
(29:27):
you will, you know, only the young could hear that,
because I was like, wow, that must be it. The
same thing with mister me all those songs that were
sampled I wrote when I was younger than.
Speaker 7 (29:40):
Eighteen, right, No, that's that's a whole twenty minute conversation
just on that song.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yes, Well what's started man with? Yeah? With mistermeanor like,
how how did you come with that?
Speaker 6 (29:56):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Wow, I didn't. The base came first.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
I was just I was stomping my foot and I
was just hitting mm hmmmmm. No, I was just doing
the first one first mm hm oh. And then I
started repeating those two over and over and I would
hit my foot kind of hard on the ground like
(30:27):
a kick. And I had one of them old. It
was I think it was a Signo cassette player. They
only made one. It had one big, giant speaker. It
was a Mono radio cassette player. Man, it had the
perfect compression for that mic. Because I recorded that baseline
(30:49):
stomping my feet with that cassette. Man, it was the
best sound ever. I did everything. I went and bought
two of those.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Ye that's what the that's what the iPhone sounds like now,
and sort of I track a lot of my drums
up with the iPhone, like on the floor, like thirteen
feet away from me, and it's the same, perfect man.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So I just loved that. I kept that cassette till
it evaporated. You know. It just had that the misdemeanor
vibe on it. And I just recorded that and then
said the hook. I don't remember if I had the
words already, I did, probably did, and I was and
(31:34):
I knew because I listened to that melody lower octave
with the base and the same register, and it's wrong.
It's the most horrible melody with the baseline because it's
one of them notes that if you do an octave
high you can get away with it. It sounds cool,
almost funky, but if you do it in the same
register like an octave lower, the worst thing to your ear,
(31:58):
you couldn't. I hated it when I when I heard
it like that, but uh, I knew what I had
when I actually did the melody with the bassline, it
sounded great. I just knew I had something that would
people would like. I don't know why. It just had
a feeling y, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
And how old was Foster when he cut that?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
He was around I think ten, uh.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Turn eleven, like ten years old? Then out were you?
Were you? Because of the pristine level of musicianship that
a lot of the Pride era records were under. Were
you guys always using the same musicians in the studio
or was it did you have a relationship with these
(32:45):
musicians or was just like who's here today?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
We met him because we wanted to be at every session.
So it was mainly Chuck Rainy on bass.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Or what oh man?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Those two were the bass players those guys were just
moonlight Like no, they were the top.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
But well, I'm just saying like, well, like yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Well, Keig Keg and Jerry Peters they were real good
producers back then. They did uh, Gray, what's that song
that friends of Friends of distinct? Yeah, they did that
and uh you got me go in and and so
Keig Johnson and Jerry Peters were formidable producers themselves. So
(33:32):
and Jerry Peters was great keyboardist and arranger. So they
knew all the top musicians and I'd go to every session.
David t was main guitar. Uh Felder. They switch up
on keyboard guys because there was a lot of them,
but it was always kind of jazz oriented. Guys still alive,
(33:53):
Yes he is.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wait, uh, it's just hit me. Was it one of
your brothers or or three? Somehow? You guys were actually
involved in the Jackson five cartoon Edmund.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
He was Marlon's voice.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Here's a voice of you. You mentioned something, well, a
lot of us are not California residents, but I have
family out here. And you said Nickerson Nickerson Gardens, which
instantly struck fear in my heart. I was like, okay,
(34:31):
hands up, Yeah, well, a lot of the We're All
in the Same Gang video was shot there. How yeah,
how knowing what I know about, you know, LA gang
culture and that stuff, especially that being the most notorious
(34:53):
housing projects in l A. How did the eleven of
you escape that unscathed? Was it just like leave the
silvers alone, like they're going to make it one day?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Or well, no, we you know, you had to kind
of get busy.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
But it's like, Okay, we're going to do soul Tree
one day and then come back and you got to
fight your way inside your crib or.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
No, actually we were. We were singing then, we were
learning and building our our voices then. And I was
going to verbum Day High School. It was a Catholic
school in the in the middle of watts and it
was the Nickerson Garden was around it actually, and I
(35:39):
went there to play basketball because I got a little
scholarship there. And we entered a talent show from verbum
Day and actually before the Brothers Johnson's name was Brothers Johnson.
They were in that talent show too, wow, and they
won their place. No, they didn't even go to the
(36:00):
but you could if you had somebody that did, you
could be in that talent show and we didn't have
no band. We were just doing a cappella. So we
put put about seven or eight chairs and put a
one leg on the chair and appella. You know. So
(36:21):
we we got one second place. But there was a
guy named Wylie Brooks there and he came up to
us and said, I have a friend at MGM.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
You know that reminds me who arranged your version of yesterday?
That that all acapella?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Who did that? I think? I think did we do
it ourselves? I think we did. I can't remember anybody else.
Oh no, there wasn't a arranger that helped us. When
we were doing our show for Las Vegas, George something.
He helped us out. But then we changed it and.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
So you guys would still do the the a cappella
beatles yesterday just the way that.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah, we we We did our show at the Rolls
a couple of months ago and we kept that in
the show. We put that back in the show.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
That that is like, yeah a lot of people, that's
the most jaw dropping. Were you professionally taught eventually how
to notate music or was.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
It just like I don't know how to read it all. Wow,
dog man, I'm gonna learn though too.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So even on the base that was just our self taught.
You talked yourself.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Oh yeah, I was. I was into jameson that. That
was the teacher right there.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Well from me, can we go to the years capital
trying to So how did the MG situation? Well, not implode,
but how did you guys eventually get the attention of
Capitol records. I don't really remember too much.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Except that.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Who's managing the group.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
At when we were on Pride it was a manager
called Nordy Stein. He would always try to chime in
and then when we didn't react fast, he would say,
it's just a thought leon. So we knew Nordy Stein
like that. But he was cool. He got gigs, and
(38:39):
I didn't. I liked him. Really.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
How how are you guys able to keep the discipline
of the group? I mean, because again, it's nine of you,
and you are going into uncharted territory of stardom, and
you're in Hollywood and you know obviously I mean, I
(39:02):
don't know if you're the father figure of the group,
but I would assume that as the eldest brother you
had to keep Oh yeah, it was in line, and
you know.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
It was I didn't believe in nothing halfway. And I
was a good disciplinary and I mean Foster he was
the only one that really showed because he was into
football like I was into basketball. So he didn't want
to practice at all when and he would cry and
(39:30):
try to get out of it, you know that kind
of stuff. But he eventually came through. But I would
do like, hey, I ain't getting on stage getting booed ever,
so y'all, let's let's go practice. And we had the
Jackson's to look up to as far as steps, professionalism
and it, but they were they were worked through professionalisms
(39:54):
and professional people.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I gotta ask you a question, okay U, because I
mean I haven't seen you guys on Soul trained billions
of times and you know all your steps are immaculating
and all those things. Did you guys ever work with
Charlie Atkins? Oh?
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, yeah, that was Arlie that that move on Boogie Fever,
that first move. We we usually would change certain steps
because some of them guys would get a little too feminine,
and you know, we from the niggas and guns, so
we'd be like, okay, don't worry about that we.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Changed that, but.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Child, yeah, well sometimes it was you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
and we didn't we knew which which one to edit
out and to put in. But Charlie's step, I said,
oh no, that ain't going nowhere. You got to keep that,
you know, just don't fall because it'll be a domino theory.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Because it's so amazing to see the nine of y'all
do it. Okay, here's the thing, as as the soul
trained attict that I am, the first minute of the
show to me is the most important part of the
show because it's when sim McCoy's gonna let you know
who's on the show with guest stars, you know. And
the thing is when they show the act that's on.
(41:14):
You know, it's usually just a one and a half
second or two second action shot. And as a kid
not knowing who the Silvers were, and it was like
with guest stars the Silvers and all of a sudden,
see I just never that was the most magical thing.
(41:35):
And the thing was its like before the age of
the VCR and that stuff. I mean, I had to
suffer for like twenty years just waiting to see the game,
imagining that thing and begging people like, do you know
doncran News can't just get the episode. They're finally like
finding that episode in Japan, like some twenty five years later. Man,
I wanted the ball like a baby. But yeah, like
(41:57):
the steps were so maculate and but again it's like
how it's like one false one false move and it's
down here like one person went to the left one.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
But like whoa, yeah, but we staggered it because we
we learned okay, no no straight lines. It's just so
they'd stagger them, like being if the first one, second,
one's a little back, third one's up back, that kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
What would y'all rehearsed at at this time?
Speaker 3 (42:28):
At this point, we had a garage that we turned
into a little studio because I had a four track studio.
Uh back then it was kind of big, but it
was four tracks. So we rehearsed their steps and are
songs you know, and uh in the garage. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Describe working with Freddy Parrin, who did he produce the
first Capitol record?
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Yes, Uh, that was that's what I learned production. Why
not you like I learned well, it's I mean, he
was he was great. I learned a lot from him,
but he did kind of take one of our songs. Oh,
but I mean it was like it's like we got
through it and we were still cool laughter. Because it
(43:17):
was a song called Stealing from the Cookie Jar. Wow
I was the title of it, and the bass line was.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom
boom boom boom boom boom.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I went jazz on it on that third part. Freddy,
after he played the song and we sung it was
going off and he said, uh, play that back, and
that part We remember him playing it back because we thought, oh,
Freddy likes, he's gonna choose this one type thing. Then
(43:52):
a couple of weeks later he called us up and Hotline.
He played Hotline for us and Jenny your song and
it well, the baseline.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Was boom boom boom boom doom doo doo doo doo
doo doo.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
And he went back to But Jonathan and Ricky, my brothers,
they were like, hey, and and uh with my man
who wrote it with Freddy, great writer, he said he
did like this. Yeah, yeah, it's almost like you did.
(44:29):
Uh that was you know, but I mean we got
past it because I was thinking, okay, if we the
record ain't out yet, y'all Ken Lewis, Kenny Saint Louis, Yeah,
great writer. He I thought it was kind of funny
because I was happy because Wow, I did something that
(44:51):
dude liked. But it was like we were minors. Well
I wasn't, but but Jonathan and them still were, and
they were the one more active on doing something about it.
And I said, well, you know what, let's just leave
it alone because you can't copyright a bassline. I mean,
(45:13):
either it's arrangement or because I found out, you know,
and then the record ain't made nothing yet. So if
we stopped the process Freddie panning him going back off,
then Capitol Records may drop us. Let's go on and
let Freddy do his thing. It's not like he took
our song. It's just a bassline he got an idea
from because it's not exactly the same. So I convinced
(45:36):
him to say, oh, okay, you know, because it could
have been a bad situation because we I was about
sixteen or seventeen then, so and Freddie was already uh oh,
you know, but he didn't steal nothing. Really, it was
just an idea that he took because my song was
totally different melody wise. So but we know how that
(46:00):
goes now when your food for thought, you know what
I'm saying. But I let it go and we had
a great rapport with Freddy, and I learned a lot
from him because he would work on one line at
every point of the song. And one time he's working
so hard on one record on the hotline, and I
(46:20):
just thought he was crazy. I was just what the
what is he thinking? So at the end, I said,
why did you go over that one so much? And
he said, well, you know how you hear records sometimes
and every part you start liking better and better. Sometimes
(46:40):
it happens like Magic's my and then other times you
set up your chorus better, you set up your ad
lib better, and it's like people listening don't know they
why they like the song better, and you get more
people and the more you hear it, the more you
like that part. And I still thought he was crazy.
I said, oh okay, and then it got me performing it.
(47:02):
When you you know, when you start performing, you there's
certain things you know already, so it's like second nature.
But in a certain part of a song you like better,
and I said, oh, I like this part, and then
it hit me that's the So I was like, okay,
I got to listen to this guy.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
You know, can you tell the day Tripper story?
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Oh yeah, yeah that I mean that was kind of
a hard part of my life. I thought I had
messed up because this uh reporter for the Times, Hunt
is his name, he was he was a he put
he cut up my words and acted like I was
(47:43):
downing Freddy Parent because I said I had told him, well,
I don't like the assembly line production attitude, but I
was talking about other producers. And then I said, but
Freddy Parent, he listens to my He left that ship
out and put Leon's tired of the assembly line production attitude,
(48:05):
and then he put in there Freddy Pearn's name after
talking about something else. Then he said, I quote and said, well,
boogiey Fever's cool, but that's for kids. I don't like
boogie fever like in passing, laughing like, but but it
was a hit and it did good for us. He
left that out and put Leon right after the assembly
line production attitude.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
And I was sounded like a hater that mean man. Sorry, Yeah,
but also U was that the first time? That was
(48:46):
that the first time you got to meet James Jamerson,
Like that's him playing the baseline of Boogie Fever. Correct, No,
that's not James Jamerson.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
No, it was either Wilton Felder or Truck Rainey.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Okay, wait, pretty parent, I could have sworn that. No,
I never met him. I was at every session I think.
Was I a Bookie?
Speaker 6 (49:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:12):
I was there. No, it wasn't James Jamison. Wow, think
that's on his UH discography whatever the on the website.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
I may not have been at Bookie Fever's session. I
was at the vocal thing, so it could have been.
Could have been that. I may not have been there
on that one.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Was on James Jamison's page that well, then damn. I
thought it was a moment like, hey, I've always left
your base player. No, have you ever got to meet him?
Speaker 3 (49:37):
I didn't really meet him, and I was mad when
I you know, because I always wanted to. I'd even
called a couple of UH session that a person thought
that he was playing on because he had came out
to l a excuse me. By the time I got there,
the session was over, and you know, I was trying
(49:58):
to just go bump into him and and just say
because I never told him face to face, he's the
reason I started bass. I mean, I got a guitar.
We was doing a show when we was the Little
Angels at that it was called the Moula Rouge. I
think back then, I don't know. It was that that
building that Nickelodeon was in for a while on Sunset.
(50:22):
They had a Christmas party and it was us and
Dennis the Mints the original original Yeah, and we were
backstays throwing a football and then they called us on
stage and gave us a present. At the end, I
got a guitar and I took the two high strings
off because I was so into motown and I used
it as a bass That's how much I was a
(50:43):
bass player. I wanted to be a bass player period.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Wow. So was it New Horizons that you guys like
decided to take control of the production and like, where
does on silver is finally stepping and say.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
Oh, yeah, I forgot I got that.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
That was.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
When they were telling me about boogiey Fever and I said,
I said, and passing, I said, well that that's that's
I think they got that from the Beatles. Anyway, because
that's a day tripper. So you can do a little
bit and cut it off because I think back then
the copyright was in bars. How much you did the
(51:35):
exact same thing within a certain amount of bars and
if you change it before that bar hit straight. Yeah,
so that's after the stealing from the cookie jar concept.
We thought, you know boogie well, No, that was after
so well we we I just assumed that they peeped
it because I used to peep things. But I would
(51:56):
never be that blatant with it. I would just into
a vibe and do my own, you know, of a
song because there was a lot of motown ones that
I loved, and you know, I would do my version,
but not blatantly copy the bass or the chords or
I didn't want to do that because I like my
(52:17):
own ideas.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
So it was capital or ATV music, like hey wait
a minute, or what went on the like did they
notice at all? Like no, because he changed it before
the bar before that? Was it totally?
Speaker 7 (52:35):
In your recording sessions, what was your what was your
approach or your science to tracking the vocals and like
tracking the harmonies. Would you cut everybody on like one
mic and y'all sing around it or did you track
them individually?
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Well, back then we did sometimes the girls on one
mic and then the guy's on one mic, but it
was all at the same time. Okay, I think I
don't remember us separating back then like later on, you know,
when I was producing then, I did that stacking thing different,
(53:10):
But back then we were. They just would tell us okay, girls,
Charmaine back or Oland back, and when we all they
sung on one mic and then they would separate us
with lowse and mid and highs. Freddy I mean, yeah,
Freddy Parron and keg.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
So for the New Horizons record, and that meant a
lot to me because I was given that eight track
when I was like six, so I wow. I studied
it profusely, but uh, I know that it didn't reach
the level of the Something Special album and showcase. And
knowing that you guys left Capital after then, is it
(53:55):
implied that, okay, well, since it was the minist return
or lower sales for this one, that you guys are
just off the label or was it because Lark and
Arnold left the Good Columbia.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
I think probably, Well, usually when the ANR guy leaves
back then a lot people who the new A and
I want to bring their own in so and you
can only have so many artists at the so if
you don't like the group, everything you know stops right there.
(54:29):
And our last it makes it easier for him because
our last green sheet didn't.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
Show too much.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
So and that's you know, I'm assuming that that's what
it was, and that was Capital. I feel they made
a mistake though, but that was in learning because we
cut this song called what's it at the concert or off? Yeah,
(55:00):
I got cut.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
We cut that way before any.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Rider came out. It sat on Capital. I even called
the Capital everybody from all the secretaries to come in
after the after they were old, you know, they were
done with their work, and said we went down to
each office and said come on up. We wanted we
need a crowd, and everybody came and we had them
(55:27):
doing O. Then we had them do don't.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
Stop, get off.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
We had that whole crowd thing.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
And so you recorded that way before nineteen seventy eight,
Well that was the first one. That was the first
that was on the disco Fever album.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
But no, but I'm saying when we heard like we
came from Japan and went to straight. I wanted to
get home because we got tickets for that brothers Johnson
Brick and Georgia Duke concert Man at the Forum, so
we wanted to make that and I got We got
back in town and I just heard everybody going.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
It was the crowd doing it. And I said, what
what is that? And they said, whoa, that's what they
do now when they like something. Wow.
Speaker 3 (56:12):
So I said, oh, the crowd likes something already, let's
put that old record and you know, so that's what
I did. But and I told Larkin, this is what
the people are doing. So we we guaranteed certain mind
of sales. When the public likes something that they done
created and they hear it back on them, they it's
a Dundell. Nobody listened. That thing sat for about two years,
(56:36):
about four or five hits with and ours was the last,
and it still went number one R and B.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
You know. So, so even though you weren't because I
know by this time UH you had formed with UH
or at least took it a day job with Dick Griffy,
but you were still were you actively producing your your
(57:04):
family's albums while still no, you weren't a member. You
weren't a full member of these Castablanca records.
Speaker 3 (57:13):
No, no, no, I was out the group then, So
how does that?
Speaker 1 (57:17):
How does that work? Because you know, you gotta start
off as a nine and then like then you were seven,
and it's like, how how do band members just leaving?
Like I can't take it anymore?
Speaker 3 (57:29):
And that's no, I was kicked out of the group.
Speaker 6 (57:36):
Wait what Yeah?
Speaker 1 (57:38):
It was it was like, you know, did they blame
you for New Horizons?
Speaker 3 (57:42):
No, no, I don't. It wasn't that.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
It's just I think everybody was growing there.
Speaker 3 (57:48):
They wanted to do a step. Everybody wanted to do
their own you know. Well, because I was like, I
took the approach as as leader when we was okay,
what everybody got? I always and I took that into production.
I give everybody a chance to let me see what
you got, do it. Let's do whether it's some melody
or ad lib whatever. I just prepared myself to come
(58:10):
with it if they ain't got nothing that's worth anything.
So and you have to use tact because I feel
producers have to be psychologists babysitters.
Speaker 7 (58:19):
At some point the same thing. Last night, he said
those exact same words about producers. It's babysitting. Psychology is
counselors exactly.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
So by this point, who do you of your siblings?
Speaker 6 (58:34):
Like, who's.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
Who's are you in conflict with? Is it? Like you know, Angela,
you you're singing them wrong? Note you sing too flatter.
Speaker 3 (58:44):
There wasn't no one person other than you know, when
people get tired and they don't even know why, they
just want something different because I don't. It didn't matter
what word I said, even when it's okay, let's see
what and then they come up with something. And then
if there's silence, you know, someone else comes up with
(59:04):
an idea, you know, so I would always do it
what about? And then I'd already have something prepared and
they was, ooh that's nice. All they took. It was
two or three of them, you know, so and it
was a lot of us. So I based everything off that.
And then if something's not happening, I didn't even have
to say I don't like that to steer the crowd.
(59:26):
They would say it, or they would say, well I
don't know about that, and then you just keep coming
with it, which is the way it should be anyway,
the best idea coming forward. But after a while, they
were growing into what I already was. I was past minor,
and I was developing my own thing, and everybody wanted
(59:48):
to do their thing, I guess because and then when
I had that meeting with them with al Ross, he
was well, he did said like this, he had a
contract on us for half and it was nine people
plus my mother. Oh, and that's true, So that that's
(01:00:11):
why I said what I said. But I had a
meeting to try to and I told everybody, look, you
guys are miners. He's not gonna want a chance or
show that contract to nobody, so all we have to
do is and I told mom just be cool, because
I was already eighteen then, you know, so you know,
I knew, you know, we'll just kicked me on off
the group and we're straight, you know. But I was
(01:00:34):
telling them how we we had a meeting and he
got up. Everything was working until he got up out
of the seat and said, Leon, I don't know what
you think you're doing or who you think you're talking to,
and that kind of thing. And I was like, I
forgot to tell moms. Look, if he gets up and
walks and I get up, don't worry I'm not going
(01:00:56):
to hit him. I'm going to wait for him to
hit me. Then it's really on. So I forgot to
do that with her. So me from Nickerson gun, I
ain't gonna let no man stand over me while I'm sitting.
So when he got up and started walking around the table,
I got up and was smiling. I thought that was enough.
I said, so what, you're getting up for a while,
(01:01:18):
And then I stood up and walked to meet him.
And that's and when he stopped and sat on the desk,
that's when Mom said, Okay, that's it. Stop, that's end there,
and he knew what was up. Then, oh there's the way,
okay cool. So from then on out, I was the
bad guy. It didn't Mom was scared too, And that's moms.
(01:01:42):
I couldn't get mad at her because I wasn't, you know.
But I knew we had that meeting, and after that happened,
he was I knew he was in her ear. And
that's when I After I was out the group, I
went hooked up with Dick Griffy.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Okay, before we get to the Solar years, because I
know you're bursting, I have one more question. What were
your feelings on
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The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.