QLS Classic: Mariah Carey Part 2

Revisiting Questlove Supreme's incredible two-part conversation with Mariah Carey. Taped in the middle of the night, this is one of the most open, honest, and incredible QLS conversations you will ever hear—and it happens to be with one of music's biggest superstars.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up Everybody?

Speaker 2 (00:06):
This is Sugar Stea from Questlove Supreme as we celebrate
the holiday season. This felt like a worthy two part
classic to revisit.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Here is Mariah Carrey. We recorded this in the middle.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Of the night, but it was worth it.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Mariah was promoting her book and she was an open
book to us. This is a really free and fun
conversation with one of the biggest superstars of Men. Part
two originally aired on Friday, January fifteenth, twenty twenty one.
Enjoy everybody and happy holidays and a healthy new Year
from Team Supreme and everybody at Questlove Supreme.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
In terms of editing, how does one Because you definitely
walked a mighty tight groupe as far as like telling
your side of the story and your experiences. But when
you're writing your memoir, how do you know what stories
to tell and what stories to leave out? Because you

(01:06):
said that you know oftentimes you're not alone, so oftentimes
your stories have happened to happen with people that are
with you. So how do you know like what to
share and like what's TMI and what's okay? This part
of the story is cool to tell. I feel safe
telling the story. I guess what I'm asking is, how

(01:30):
did you know how much to share about Sony prison?
How did you know how much to reveal about your
Matola period without fear of further repercussion or litigious action
or any of those things.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
Well, you know, in America they can anybody can be religious,
and I've noticed that great to that. By the way,
if anyone should be litigious, it's me to get a
certain amount of years back of my life that were
spent basically, you know, under somebody's control. But seriously, honestly,

(02:18):
I there were certain stories we didn't even delve into
until like kind of the end of the process, like
the story at the kitchen table with the butter knife
and stuff like that. But these are things that actually happened,
and whether somebody else and that you got to look
it up to know what I'm talking about, somebody else,

(02:38):
you know, felt that that was TMI. I don't care,
like that was part of my story. That was a
catalyst to get me the hell out of that situation
where you sometimes you know a lot of women, whoever
it is, I don't want to say it's specifically women,
but we tend to tolerate domestic abuse in whatever form

(03:02):
that may take longer than sho be taking it. And
that's what I did, because emotional abuse is I'm not
saying it's worse than physical abuse, but it's it's a
form of abuse.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
It's probably even more damaging. You know, stays with you, Yes,
it stays.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, that's gonna ask you, you know, being at that
period of your life, what do you think, uh led
you into a romantic relationship with you know, the head
of your label and you know how like, how did
it even get to that point?

Speaker 5 (03:36):
Again, I would hope that people will read about this
because I think when you read about it and you
understand what my childhood was like, you understand what my
early adult very early we're not even adults they teams
about as a struggling singer and songwriter with everything in
my head going towards a goal, going towards a goal.

(04:00):
I'm not going to be like my family members that
I've seen go down the path of drug drug abuse
and prostitution and all the things that happened right where
a MASSI appeal audience doesn't even understand what that is
and if it's ever been you know, used, used, or
talked about it, spoken about it in the media, it's
always been like for shame, look at it. Like, it's

(04:23):
never been like, look at what she actually came out.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
She came from. Yeah, look at what she escaped. Yeah,
it's never viewed as a success story.

Speaker 5 (04:31):
No, but it's also like and I'm trying, and people
think I was trying to like look what I came from.
Like I'm just saying, I'm not saying that's exclusively a
black experience, but it's surely in the middle of the
road Princess.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Not an adult temporary experience.

Speaker 5 (04:48):
Oh it's not. It's not anything other than a really,
really dysfunctional and hard experience that I went through and
multiple times. So when you ask what led to that situation,
I didn't have boyfriends like after high school, and I
never had like a real an actual serious situation because

(05:12):
when I was growing up, I always knew I'm not
gonna be around these people. I don't care, like I'm
getting out of this go on, I'm going to realize
my dreams. This is not a this is not an if,
this is a wind. And so when I do, I
won't be around these people that I'm around right now
who are doubters and who look at me as the
scum of the earth. That's what I'm not going to do.

(05:32):
So anyway, in dealing with that relationship and how it evolved,
there are manyfactors that made it develop. What I will
say is he believed in me as much as I
believed in myself, and that is the most attractive quality
that I can find. So maybe there were other things
where it wasn't like, oh my gosh, it's my school,

(05:54):
go crush and blah blahlah lah. And you know, knowing
that he was twenty plus years older than me and
I was a kid, but there's a certain sense of
validation and a sense and at the beginning, I'm saying
that the sense, yeah, and a sense of security when
you're when you're having to fight your own family, your

(06:17):
own demons, your own stuff. That that was there. It was,
and that's where they got this whole Prince Charming narrative.
But let's face it wasn't that, and it certainly didn't
evolve into that for a number of reasons that I've
talked about a lot, But you know, it was what
it was, and I definitely wish him. Well, I just

(06:37):
wish I could get back some of those years and
just insert like a party every now and then with
a couple of girlfriends, or like a fun moment or
like a phone conversation without somebody having to be like
what you're gonna do, what's going on? What is it?
And freaking out and ruining everything and taking it Like,
as much as those years were amazing with the successes

(06:59):
and things in the early years I'm talking about, it
was awesome, very much like, well, you can have fun
for ten more minutes and then it's over.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
Wait, I don't I don't want to spoiler alert, And
again Mariah is correct. I think probably the best way to,
I don't know, not have the experience that I had.
But you know, I recommend that people get this book

(07:32):
and taking the information so they can learn like I did.
But there's there's one incident I kind of want to
ask about, but I feel like it's the most gripping
story in the book, so I don't want to spoiler
alert it, but I will call it the French Fry incident.

Speaker 5 (07:49):
I keep.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Okay, I won't say it's the friend.

Speaker 6 (07:54):
I haven't got it yet.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
She's basically at the height of well, what is what is?

Speaker 4 (08:01):
What is truly the height of Mariah Idis in a
three years story career, I will say that, yes, she's
way beyond household name here, and just for her to
have a simple pleasure like French fries winds up turning
into a near h Will Smith enemy of the State situation.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
With escaping security people and da da da da da.
So and I'm asking you.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
One time, I got to ask will Smith this question,
and I asked him, like, what is it when you're
in this house alone? How many people here just for
you to feel comfortable to be alone, like walk downstairs
in your underwear? And he was like, like seventeen people.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Jesus, yeah, but.

Speaker 5 (08:52):
He needed seventeen people.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
No, no, Well, because I've never seen in a state
that big. I mean, it's like two hundred and fifty
acres and you know, it's like a full scale staff
of you know, it's a full staff at at his living.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Quarters and so it's the middle of yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
And the thing is is like I'm like, well, okay,
like if you get out of bed and want to
get some orange juice at four in the morning, like
all these people, your staff is in the house, Like,
you can't just be yourself and walk down in your underwear.
So I'm like, okay, what's the number of minimum people
that have to be in this house for you to
feel like I'm alone?

Speaker 1 (09:37):
And he said seventeen.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
Normally there's about forty plus people on his property, security
and all that stuff. So I mean during that, during
the height of what I call between Mariah Carrey and glitter, Yeah,
what was I mean, how often even your home, what

(10:01):
was isolation or just a moment to yourself, like, like,
was it still always with security no matter where you
were and even in your house, Like, was it always
like that?

Speaker 5 (10:13):
Okay, so we're speaking specifically about what I'll call sing
sing right like that.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
He refers to her, Yes, we got the house, yes.

Speaker 5 (10:25):
Because because when you when you say up until glitter,
that's a whole nother thing, like because I left at
Butterfly before but during the rightly.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Just a version yeah okay.

Speaker 5 (10:39):
But it was that was a whole other thing. So
when you read the book, you'll see, Okay, that was
its own hysteria and whole thing. So I'll I'll break
it up into the couple of years that I lived
in that huge mansion which you can google it. There's
really no We never took any pictures like you know today,
everybody would take pictures of their house. Everybody would make
a huge to deal out of it. It's a thirty

(11:01):
million dollar mention, massive, sprawling thing that I, by the way,
half of pay for half of everything, down to the electric,
down to the electric as a twenty something year old.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
Woman wows that Twitter would go crazy, I'm.

Speaker 5 (11:21):
Saying, but that was me being like, oh, I don't
want to be looking my home and I don't want
to be kicked out of my own house. And little
did I know when he said here's a fabulous piece
of property, let's make this a house, I was like, Okay, great.
I just got a million dollars for publishing advance or
whatever it was. So I'm thinking, I don't know how
much stuff costs, and I'm like, okay, I need to

(11:44):
pay for half of this because I wanted to be mine.
I never want to be kicked out of my house.
And when I said I was going to get married
I believe in that. I was like, oh, I guess
this is for the rest of my life, Like I'm
not just I wasn't like, let's just let's see it
then we'll get out of it. Whenever.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
No, you need agency to make it a real relationship,
like you need agency, your.

Speaker 5 (12:03):
Own yes, your own pensive self worth and everything else
that I had worked that hard for to that point.
But anyway, at that point there was always security. There was.
I would say they were probably about I mean, look
when people were coming to the house, like the French
five incident that you're talking about, the jail break incident

(12:27):
as we call it, Brat and Jakie and all that.
I don't know, there were ten security armed security guards.
There were you know, there were housekeepers, management, like all
those people were there. Did I ever feel like I
used to creep down the stairs sometimes and have like
a semi private moment until I would hear the beady

(12:50):
on the intercom what are you doing? And that would
break me out.

Speaker 6 (12:55):
How the time in every room, the anacom was in
every room, because that's a big house.

Speaker 5 (13:01):
That's yeah.

Speaker 7 (13:04):
If you wanted to.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Just get a snack in the refrigerator, like I don't
eat that.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
No, No, that wasn't that wasn't said. But it'd just
be like I'd get into the I would sneak out
of the bed. And I talked about this, like barely
trying to trying to not move the bed, and I
would sneak out in tiptoe to the back area my closet,
go that way to the right, and then sneak all

(13:31):
the way around the how you know, down the house,
down the side to where the kitchen was. Meanwhile, I
could have gone straight down to the kitchen, but I
didn't want to walk through the through the bedroom and
then went away, came up, and then I would go
that way and I would suddenly get into the kitchen
and be like, oh, I would have some Chateau we
Kim that was around like a little splash whatever, you know,
try to whatever was snuck and suddenly did yeah, and

(13:55):
I'd be like nothing, you know.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
It was real.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
It was that confining. But I will say there is
a certain thing in terms of no matter where you go,
there you are. Because even here, even in my life now,
even having this greatest week possibly because you know, breaking
the Spotify record and all the stuff that happened, like
I'm not too born, I'm not whatever, but having this

(14:22):
happen at this point in my life and the book
and all this stuff is so amazing. But then I
don't feel like, oh, I can just walk around in
my underwear with you know, no judgment or no whatever,
or walk around with like even talking to you guys,
right and now like walk around with my hair look
at a mess of this and that. And that's really
because of some of the things that have happened to
me where I look at like quote unquote stardom as

(14:44):
a fabulous thing and a goal that, once achieved is
like you did, whoa. But it also comes with this
level of expectation you always got to that you've always
got to be on. And if you yeah, not on, no,
but even within your own home, people like what like

(15:08):
if I'm not walking around like hi, because I've created
this festive thing and I'd always be happy and you know,
make everybody else feel comfortable for me to just be
allowed to be me. And I feel like with the book,
I've gotten to a place where I can say to
people who may have walked all over me previously, like
did you read the book, because if you did, you'd
see that you need to actually treat me as like

(15:30):
a human being. Where if I'm on a video shoot
and there is no water and there is no covering,
you know, there is no seat like you like, we
were just doing this the Christmas thing with Jay Hud
and Iron Garmy, right, so the Apple especially, and I
see Jay team and I see the second rebreak right

(15:51):
because you know there's the union breaks and it's her
team is incredible. They got her seat, they got her water,
they got her massage, they got her foot moment, and
I'm just like yay Jha because I love her so much.
I think she's such an incredible person. She deserves that
treatment more than anybody I know. But I took note
of it, and I was like, I've been having this
struggle for years because what happens is and even my

(16:13):
therapist back in the day said to me, when you
smile and you're on, people don't think there's a problem.
They don't think you don't need to be care of,
You don't need to be Yeah, I'm gonna care I'm smiling,
I'm here, I'm there, and it's lit well and it's
hair and makeup and it's outfits and it's sparkly. And

(16:33):
then I then it cuts and everybody goes about the
merry way and if I don't have like a little
morsel of food or just like someone helped me walk
to the trailer or whatever it is. And that's a
lack of management, you know. And this is we're talking
about two thousand and one. But I'm saying this has
been a pattern and even to this day, like I

(16:53):
don't know, I just try to make people fit into,
like get into this space where I'm expecting them to
be caretakers, but really I'm the caretaker and I always
have them.

Speaker 6 (17:02):
So wait, then, is this book like the warning of
what's to come then? Right? Because I mean, are you
now at a point where you're understanding all these things
and so you're are you going into a I don't
give a fuck phase? Because I feel like now is
the time. Now's the time to go into the I
don't give a fuck phases? I don't give a fuck, COVID,
I don't give a fuck twenty twenty, like why do
you give a fuck?

Speaker 5 (17:23):
Right? So, in the words of the immortal and ever
present Diana Ross and I talk about this in the book,
she said to me, well, we're at top of the pops,
which you guys know what that is.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
I know, Yeah, yeah, you know that.

Speaker 5 (17:37):
Can make or breaking artists, you might want to give
them a little backstory on that. You can see everybody.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
There well, our our our readership, our fans know what
top of the pops.

Speaker 5 (17:48):
You know. But in case some of my lambs happened
to listen, it's it was a show that could literally
make or break a record in the UK and around Europe.
So you would oftentimes run into anybody from Phil Collins
to you know, Diana Ross. So what happened to run

(18:10):
into And she's there doing her own hair makeup? She
she came into my room. You know, she's there, and
this is during this is around I'll be their remake time.
So that's like I don't want to say numbers of years,
but it's very beginning of my career, right a la
la la lat. Yeah, but who's kunting? Was it not?

(18:36):
Was it not? No?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
It?

Speaker 5 (18:39):
Yeah, around that time. I don't even know. It could
have been right after that, But all I know is
Trey wasn't with me because mss Ross is Trey's favorite,
and I was calling him and leaving voice messages with her.
But anyway, she she scans the roomb, she's looking around
the room and she goes, she sees the hair, makeup,
this and that, the wardrobe, the managers, the lookers on,

(18:59):
the publicists, whoever they were. And she's by herself doing
her hair, doing her makeup, walking barefoot in and out
of the room. And she's like in the most glamorous
way possible. And she's like, Mariah, one day, you're not
going to have these people around you. You're not going
to people around you. And she said, someday you're not
gonna win to held these people around you. And I
was like, and now I'm like, I believe that someday

(19:23):
is good. I'm serving a purpose of really helping you.
Why are they here? We are in the age of
direct messaging, of figuring out your own narrative this stuff.
What is the purpose of people if they're not one
hundred thousand tillion, what quad billion percent team MC and

(19:46):
really really care to be there? Why are you giving
away money?

Speaker 3 (19:49):
I wanted to ask you about one of my favorite jams,
yours breakdown with Bone Thugs at Harms. That's what was
that session?

Speaker 5 (20:00):
Like, Okay, so, so first I was with stevee J
And actually I had the conversation with Damn.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
I forgot Stevie J used to do music at one point.

Speaker 6 (20:17):
Yes, he made amazing music.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
I forgot Stevie J. Was he was a legit producer.
Stevie he was the dude up.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Was he as crazy back then as I know him now.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
From the TV shows and such? Yeah, yeah, that's in general,
because I don't I don't really keep up with that.
I have my own memories of him back then.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
Stevie J, I know, is the STEVIEJ of VH one
reality shows. So I'm just trying to was that person
in England? Is that person?

Speaker 7 (20:49):
Was that him?

Speaker 3 (20:50):
Always been there?

Speaker 5 (20:52):
Also very charming, always very charming. I can't say she.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Was in prison then that.

Speaker 5 (21:01):
But here's the thing, I don't think at that point
that it wasn't reality shows and stuff, and it was
still a grind because he was a bad boy producer, right,
So he was the behind the scenes person making beats.
And we ended up so I talked to Kuff about
the idea of bone Bounce and harmony, and we were
very inspired by Notorious Thugs. But that was obviously a

(21:26):
minor moment and then we kind of like flipped it
to have more the anemony, like a little like happy
part on top of that harder beat. So you know,
we ended up knowing that they were that crazy and
which bone were going to be on it. And yeah,
I was in the studio with Stevie J a lot,

(21:48):
and then I ended up recording. I mean, I don't
even want to tell this story. One of these days,
if there's a potsho, I'm going to tell the this.
It includes brownies, It includes say what busy, I'm sorry
brownies by myself. No, that session was a complete haze,

(22:12):
like when we were all together in the session, But
I laid my vocals down first, so by the time
they heard the song, it already had that you know,
had the It had that whole thing, and they were
they were It was clear that I was inspired by
their flow and everything. So so when I recorded my vocals,
so I went to Florida and it was a whole

(22:33):
thing with the brownies and whatever and then and I
will get into greater detail at one at some point,
But when I listened back to it, because I you know,
for my phot it would just be like, okay, browniees.
And my assistant at that time was like Queen of brownies,
and so she did give me the brownies. And then
I'm at this restaurant in Florida after I did the

(22:54):
whole day of vocal like doing my backgrounds, doing the vocals,
layering them, putting it down, you know, laying out kind
of like the parts. I thought it would be cool
for the guys, and then they did that thing on
top of it and their own thing to it. But
I listened back to it afterwards, after I got in
the car. After like I got a paranoid moment, like
people in the restaurant started recognizing me, going oh, okay, okay,

(23:18):
can we take a picture with you? And I was like,
had the brownie, So I'm like I still felt like
my high school self and I was like, why do
they want to take a picture with me? What? Why?
What is this? Because I just weren't used to the
whole brownie thing, cause I was very never doing that.
And then I'm like, okay, let's get out of here.
So I get in the car and I put it
on and I heard how kind of like how fast

(23:38):
I was singing, and I said to myself, what in
the hell is this? Like this is not what did
I do? I hate this? I don't know not that
I hate it.

Speaker 6 (23:48):
I love the way it came together. You wouldn't have
thought on paper. But then when the execution, I was.

Speaker 5 (23:52):
Like, I know, So anyway, I loved it after I
finished it, but when I read listened back to what
after the brownie thing, I thought, yeah, I thought I
thought I had wasted a session and that was horrible.
But anyway, after the recovery, which is a whole other story,
Q tip is involved to be a phone opening, but wow,

(24:13):
after that and I'm deliberately being evasive because I have
to tell the story of detail at some point. But
then they laid there when we got so cut to
back at the head factory in New York. A complete
and total haze with those guys. But I love working
with them, and they you know, they could hear that
there was they had inspired the whole thing, so it was.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
It was.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
It's still one of my favorites, and I appreciate you.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah that speak speaking of which, by the way, from yeah, yeah,
speaking of which, Uh, I.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Listened to that Busy boone interview like once a month.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Man a big business man listen, Yeah, that that nigga
business bone because business Michael and he a wild boy.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
Or two things I have to listen to six times
a year just to make it through life.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
Maura, did you ever watch BT and cut uh? Way
back when Yeah, Busy Boy had a song called uh
huh ain't like money my zip bags. Ain't nothing like
money in a zip like bag. It's It's a classic.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yeah, So uh ma Riah, I have a question, uh
with Honey. I always wanted to know this, Okay, So
at the time when Honey was first being conceived, I

(25:48):
was hanging with.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Tip a lot and he was mad amped. Yo.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
I got to sing from Mariah It's going to be better.
That is incredible, and then you know, cut to four
months later, it kind of went through the bad boy filter, right,
And I always wanted to know, like, what was the
conversation that transpired that turned it from the original demo

(26:16):
that I heard, or at least the idea that he
presented to you. I mean, obviously the question is, of course,
you know, by ninety seven, anything that he did was
instant magic. So it's like, duh, of course I'm gonna,
you know, go this route. I get it, But yeah,
how did that transpire? Like as far as the changing

(26:39):
of it, because the day came out I called him,
and you know me again, I'm a patch fiend.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
I was like, yo, do these are your drum patches?
And he was like, no, man.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
I get and this is a term that Tip always uses.
He's like, I gave her nigga drums man and nah man,
they used different drum patches.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
So how did it? Uh?

Speaker 4 (27:05):
How did it come from what I heard in the
demo to what we now know?

Speaker 5 (27:10):
You know that era, specifically with that song Honey was
so much going on in my life. Don't forget that
was like that was the first emancipation of Mimi before
the actual one.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
Happened later, even before Fantasy. I thought Fantasy was sort
of the flag planning.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Of that was me.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
I snuck that in. They didn't really know who ODB was.
Had they seen his album cover and knew that he
made songs about gonorrhea, I don't think that would have happened.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
I mean, two years into the Wu Tang clan, like
no brasset Sony was like she wanted to do or
some rapper you know or whatever.

Speaker 5 (27:54):
They didn't even know. When I wanted to work with
jay Z, they didn't know who he was. Like, they
just connected culturally and they thought I was on some
kind of trying to be cool tangent music.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Right.

Speaker 5 (28:11):
Really, it really was that it was an operation gap,
and it was a cultural gap, and it was just
them feeling more comfortable with me going a different route.
You know, they wanted to keep it ac They didn't understand,
but I didn't care. So but when we go back
to that Honey, specifically that record, Yeah, q Tash as

(28:31):
I call them que Tash had come up with that
body rock sample. I guess that's what rock treacherous three,
and I loved it, and I wrote the song to
that loop. But then when I guess somehow, I don't
really honestly, I think I've blocked this part out. So
I don't want to say it in an accurate way.

(28:53):
But I know that at the time, Poppy and I
had done the other record together, Fantasy, and we were
working on stuff. But you know, there's a certain kind
of energetically if somebody's like, well.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Let me just close it.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
It's it was the smarter move because it was it
was the smartest move to do.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
I wanted to incorporate the right as that, Yeah, I
wanted to I wanted to incorporate that and we had
the regular you know, the straight up loop from the
Treachers three, and then I wanted to put that part,
the hey DJ part and for my own reasons, which

(29:36):
I talk about in the meaning of man carry the
memoir when the same meaning and mark the same time.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
But mess that up anyway. You're so funny.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
You did that on purpose. Yes, damn savage. Nice one thing.

Speaker 5 (29:55):
It was.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Now read the book, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 6 (29:59):
Wait, am I wrong in.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Trust me?

Speaker 5 (30:02):
No?

Speaker 6 (30:02):
No, no, no, I ask one more Honey question because
and I'm wondering. I'm sure you get into it in
the book, but earlier on in the book where I'm
already at I had discovered your this dislike for the dance,
but you just mentioned that, you know, this is also
a stage in your life with Honey where you felt free.
So I was like, okay, So the freedom to do
the choreography and stuff in the video was that, like
that free feeling and just saying bucket, like let's just

(30:25):
go all out.

Speaker 5 (30:28):
You know, I talk about my father's mother traumatizing me
about dancing roy that baby girls, it's like it's a
whole thing.

Speaker 6 (30:38):
Yes, you know, it's in the books. I said, that part.
But but you're dancing and honey, So I was like,
did you get you got it back?

Speaker 5 (30:44):
Like, it didn't turn me into Janet Jackson. It's just
one little moment and it was cute, you know. I
actually I really loved that video and that that was
the only time I ever had fun making a video
back then. That's the first time I ever was free
to make a video and kind of like express myself

(31:06):
and I worked with Paul Hunter and Heartbreaker. No, the
Heartbreaker is later.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
In terms of fun, like.

Speaker 5 (31:18):
The first time I had fun that was the Honey video.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
Okay, I was about to say I thought Heartbreaker was
actually like wow, okay, that's.

Speaker 5 (31:27):
Yeah, okay, no, no, but that but Honey was the
first time there was no ever present other person on
set telling me don't do that or telling the director
not to film me in a certain way.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Oh okay.

Speaker 5 (31:45):
It was the actual first time, first taste of freedom
that I had, even like back in the days. But
I don't want to cry video. There was a male
model in the video and that got squashed real it
was problematic. I had a whole lecture about, yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
How awkward was it to take control of the rings
and decide for yourself what you wanted at that period,
least at the at that period of your career, like.

Speaker 5 (32:21):
During honey or you know, that's the whole. So it
all stemmed from being able to extract myself from that
controlling situation, which was not easy because as you know,
I don't know if you know, but like if you
get into something as a kid and you allow that
pattern to continue, it's very difficult to break free from

(32:45):
that because other people just expect you to go along
with it. They expect you to go along with it.
They're used to you being compliant, and you just deal
with it. So especially when you're dealing with someone at
that level, which now there really isn't anyone that powerful
to me, like because the way the artists were ConTroll
a lot. Everybody except me, you are that power. Now, well,

(33:07):
we artists can be that powerful at this point, you know,
especially if people say that. But back then, everybody was
scared of that corporate as I call the corporate morgue,
led by specifically one person who was uber powerful. They
were all scared to death, including me. So when I started,
when I got to the point that I could no
longer take it, is when I decided, Okay, I have

(33:31):
to break free, and I got to figure out how
to do it. So if you listen to the Butterfly
album and the lyrics on that album, specifically Butterfly, that
was what I hoped somebody would say to me, like
wild horses tiled or their spirit diales. You know, I
wanted them to say, you know. I wanted them to
say that, like, you know, and I truly feel your

(33:52):
heart will lead you back to me when you're ready
to land. I wanted to hear that, but I didn't
hear that, so I wrote it to my I wrote
it to someone else as a lyric for that song
and for that time, and it was very much what
I just I had to gain the strength. Like if
you listen to Pedals from the Rainbow album, that's about

(34:13):
like all the people that were screwed up in my life.
And this is not me blaming everybody else. I'm sure
I was a part of it too. I allowed it
to happen, but to break free not only from a
personal relationship, but from a massive corporate structure where you
are have been the number one artist on that label,
and you also started out as a child really and also,

(34:37):
your whole personal life is surrounded by people that are
slaved to that system. It's really not easy to break free.
And then the subsequent years when I wasn't allowed to
be free, even when I was on another label, or
even when I was trying to do my own thing,
there was a concerted effort to kind of squash that

(34:59):
or squash that, or ever the proper terminology is. So
there was until the emancipation of Mimi. There when I
got with a new group of people. Fortunately, you know,
after all the stuff that happened, there was no there
was no freedom, There was nothing. There was a constant fight.
Whether I was inside the structure or having gotten out

(35:22):
a structure, there was a constant fight, a constant battle,
and it just made me sort of implode it and
it really really screwed me up. But what can you do? Here?
I am and it's great, Hallelujah, thank God. And you know,
I'm not going to dwell that stuff. But I talked
about it in the book because I wanted to Actually,

(35:44):
when people years from now tell my story, hopefully that happens,
they're going to have to use that book as a template,
like this is actual story. And I look at a
lot of people that I admired who didn't get a
chance to do that. They didn't They may have told
their stories through their music, and people may interpret their stories,
and I know some people I'm here like to have

(36:06):
everybody else's input and their perspective. But what I wanted
was to tell my actual story, which doesn't begin with
Roni Carrey put out Vision of Love in nineteen ninety. No,
it doesn't begin with that I'm coloring in the wrong
crayon with a brown crayon for my father, so they
all freak out of me. It begins with like I
don't understand my hair, because you know, it begins with
all these identity issues, these issues are race, these struggles,

(36:30):
and then it goes you know, it goes to the
issues of control and people you know, always wanted to
have go. And even though that's not my song, but
I'm just saying, there's a thing where this is a
constant theme. And it's also like just being a woman
in a male dominated industry and then a woman of

(36:50):
color with all this ambiguity and people deciding how they're
going to market me and all of that shit.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
So what were some of the things you mentioned earlier
that you know, you would hear things that they you know,
that people would say that you know, you know, you
wouldn't be privy to if like if you had darker
skin or whatever. So like, what was some of the stuff,
and you don't have to attribute it to anyone, but
just like, what's some of the stuff you would hear,
like white people say around you that you know what

(37:18):
I'm saying that you knew they wouldn't right fether about
your music or whatever. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
I'm going the whole the way back to childhood. I'm
going to, yeah, going to kindergarten. I'm going to, like
I said, coloring with the brown crayon and having the
entire the teachers come over and go, ha, why did
you use that crayon? Like I used a green crayon,
but because they just didn't know so and having the

(37:47):
entire class there at me. Basically I was humiliated. And
that's the first time I realized I was different from
anybody else because they had only seen my white mother
coming and going, you know, with my parents also were divorced.
I'm quite sure if I had had a different I
would have had a different experience with a family that
was married. If they were going to be a mixed family,

(38:11):
they started that in Brooklyn Heights. If they had just
stayed married, stayed in Brooklyn Heights, like where diversity is more.
They're used to diversity a bit more than like feeling like, oh,
let me you know both of them. I feel like
both my parents. Mainly my father was like, I want
my kids to have a better life. So he thought moving,
you know, like he thought doing Yeah, that was he

(38:36):
thought that was going to make it better, but really
it made it worse.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
And I.

Speaker 5 (38:40):
Talk about, like, I don't know my ex siblings experiences.
I know what I've heard. I'm sure it was horrible
for them, and I feel bad for them, but they
thought it was easier for me, and in actuality it
was probably I won't say it's worse a better, because
I can't speak for anybody's experience but my own, but
I know that. Yeah, So I tried to deal with

(39:03):
that selflessly in the book, you know, I tried to
give that sort of like, you know, look, they put
me through hell, and in my opinion, I'm not going
to say who's water, who did what, But the point
is I heard a lot of stuff like I have
this song called close my Eyes, which is one of
my fans' favorite, and it's from one of my favorites

(39:25):
from a Butterfly album, and it goes I was a
wayward child with the weight of the world that I
held deep inside. Life was a winding road and I
learned many things little ones shouldn't know. But I closed
my eyes, steady, my feet in the ground, raised my
head to the sky, and the time rolled by. So
I feel like that child as I look at the moon.
Maybe I grew up a little too soon, meaning I
was in this fucked up place and I had to

(39:45):
grow up on my own and figure it out by myself.
You know. So here I am, there is no woe
is me. This is just my story. It's unique to
me and other people that have had simpler experiences, like yes,
we'll understand it, or hopefully it will empower other people

(40:05):
to feel like they're important enough, they're worthy enough to exist,
because I actually didn't feel worthy. But I did have,
thank God, a spark of hope to know that one
day I would get out of the situation I was
born into.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
I would say to ask you, all right, do you
think that in your marriage to Tommy and what you
referred to as the kind of sony prison years, do
you think that played a role in you marrying Nick
and choosing someone that was, at least on paper, like
very different you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (40:40):
Very different from the first marriage.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
From the first marriage, I mean yeah, on paper. I
mean I don't know what was what the marriage was like,
but on paper it appeared that way.

Speaker 5 (40:50):
Yeah, I mean, look the power dynamic in the first Like,
I laugh at it now because I would have two
marriages whatever. I'm like, what do you mean my first
box husband?

Speaker 3 (41:03):
It's all good. I'm on my second time around too,
don't need trip, it's all good.

Speaker 6 (41:08):
Keep I would just like to be invited. Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 5 (41:17):
No, honestly, that was it was fun. It was bad fun,
but it was just things. No, it was great. Nick
and I had fun and it was like, let's just
be kids and have a good time and whatever. And
the bottom line is we co parent now and we

(41:38):
have two kids that I love that make my life
a better thing, that that gave me conditional love, I hope.
And so it's a totally different experience. It's a completely
different experience. But yes, I don't think I would have
ever done. How could I do? There could never be

(42:00):
situation where I would be that vulnerable to being fully
under somebody else's control like that.

Speaker 6 (42:06):
Ever, again, that's good. Everybody don't learn their lessons. Everybody
don't learn their lessons, so that's good.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
It's honestly impossible. How can you be You can't recreate like, Okay,
there's gonna be this mobile oh yeah, right, kid that
has nothing, that has a dollar a week a day,
and then they're going to help, you know, give you
your record deal, but you're actually going to write all
these songs, produce them, do this and that and then
and you're gonna make them money and their corporation money.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
But still they're going to commit still have to split
the damn bills.

Speaker 7 (42:37):
That was me.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
I blame myself.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
She won an ownership Mariah.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
Okay, So now that the book is out h and
has done well, obviously, I mean I would think the
next logical step, And you know, when I finished the book,
I was like, Okay, are already feel like Lee Daniels

(43:02):
is already speaking to her like that? Well, but then
I thought about it and it just hit me that
not not enough brew how was made on your precious
performance and precious Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
And recapping your videos for this episode.

Speaker 4 (43:29):
And again also recapping your your your narration of the audiobook. Yeah,
I are you ever going to get on? Are you
properly going to get on the acting horse again?

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Has Glitter made you gun shy or like so much after?

Speaker 4 (43:51):
I know, but I'm just saying that is I feel
like that's an area that you really really should explore
because you're your comic. Timing is one point with the
book and the shorts you did with Funny or Die,
We're also funny like engaging. Do you want to explore

(44:14):
the acting world and immerse yourself in it for real
this go around? Or you just fine with like, Okay,
I tried it once and I'm fine.

Speaker 5 (44:24):
Well, here's the thing. So when I first met the Daniels,
it was post Glitter and he was actually and I
had done this movie called Wise Girls with Mira Cervina. That, yeah,
an independent movie. Yeah, so that could have been a
great movie about great but it was supposed to have

(44:44):
been narrated by her character. A lot of the scenes
were kind of like added at the end. But it's
like the land of independent filmmaking. So my original goal
was always start. I always wanted to act, but my
original like if I had if I could create, like
here's my path. It was to start with independent projects,

(45:05):
to do things that were character driven, to work with
great directors, et cetera, et cetera. But that the whole
acting thing was completely a non starter for the corporate
morgue one person mainly, and so it wasn't even allowed
it And I talked about it in the book, So

(45:25):
this is no secret. I'm actually being more caged whatever
about it than I was in the book. But it
wasn't allowed. It just wasn't allowed. So my path of like,
let me do these gritty independent projects was just it
wasn't even that. It wasn't encouraged. It was blocked. It
was not it was not allowed. So in developing Glitter,

(45:47):
what happened was they very much whitewashed it quite literally,
you know, the studio, this, that, and then by the
end of it there was so much Oh, it just
all was so incestuous and the label into trounta with
this and that and having what I left, you know,

(46:09):
that whole situation that it just became like there was
there was no script. It was all over the place
and it wasn't night. And then it came out on
you know, September eleventh, two thousand and one, So what
are you going to do? But then but then me yeah,
but then like you know, wise girls and Lee had
seen that, and then he was like, I love your acting,
like you should. You should be encouraged. So we worked

(46:30):
on a couple other projects together, and then we did Precious,
which heat He called me the day before and was like, hey,
you want to do this. I had read Push by Sapphire,
which I don't know if you guys read that, but
I read it. Yeah, yeah, anyway, Ron had given it
to me We're on the Beach and the Musa and
read it twice. So when I knew that Lee was

(46:51):
doing the movie, I was like, Wow, did I think
there was a part for me in the movie? No?
Not really who knew his take on it? But I'm
so happy that I did because he's a big he's
a great director. He understood what it took to put
me in a role and have it be not quote
Mariah Carey. So we did that and working with Monique

(47:11):
and Gabby was just like really being in it, really
being in it, and I loved it.

Speaker 6 (47:16):
But yeah, can I ask you though, because now through
reading the book and knowing your life and the characters
that are come in out of your life and the
situations that you've been in and knowing that character Imprecious,
which I just you blew me away like no bullshit?
Tell us between was it something personal that you were

(47:38):
drawing from and what was the direction from Lee to
you about that character.

Speaker 5 (47:44):
Lee's direction is pretty much always this, do nothing, do nothing, nothing,
like like he no, I'm laughing when I say that,
because of course you gets more direction. But let's say,
after he gives you his direction, he's like, Okay, okay,
do nothing, do nothing, and I'm like, oh wow, how
do I do nothing? But I have to say on

(48:04):
that particular shoot, we really only did like three or
four takes of that, and it was so powerful because
so I had worked with a woman named Karen Giordonna,
who's a really close friend of mine and who is
an acting coach but also a director, and Lee was
working with her on Precious, mainly with the girls in

(48:25):
the scene at each one teach one and they were
it was all in prov he loves in pututization, so
it you know, she was like, oh my gosh, this
is a this is an incredible thing energetically that's happening
with this movie. And she was so excited about it.
And then the last minute he called me, and me

(48:45):
and Karen just put together kind of like a backstory
for the character really quick. And Lee's main concern was,
you know, he had a prosthetic nose made for me,
which we didn't even end up using, but putting it
on and taking it off because my skin is so sensitive,
made it in a large Jimmy way. So that was
great and for him because I was concern he thought
he caught me putting on on making he was like,

(49:06):
what are they going? I'm like, oh, but you know,
everybody had their makeup and air and there's but his
main thing. And I loved it because a lot of
people when when the movie first came out, they didn't
even recognize me because there was an there was a
whole different look. So to answer the initiative question, do
all what I do more of it? I don't know.
It would depend on the director, It would depend on

(49:29):
the role. Honestly, I don't want to do it just
for the sake of doing it. I want to do
it for the creative experience. But I do know that
like I am high maintenance me as Mariah Carey, I'm
a freaking high maintenance. No, no, I am. And I've
always said it. I said it in some interview. I
think it was for The Guardian. I'm like, yeah, I've
always been high maintenance. I just didn't have people to

(49:50):
facilitate the maintenance.

Speaker 6 (49:52):
So even as an actress or high maintenance like Mariah
the singer, one thing, but when you go to set
and stuff, it's still the same.

Speaker 5 (49:59):
Missis it out for that role? Absolutely not, like and
and we wouldn't have tolerated it. Yeah, I just have
to get it. If that's the role and that's what
we're doing, then that's what we're doing. But if I
want to do another project, I love behind the scenes,
I love executive producing, I love writing, you know, I

(50:21):
love all of that stuff. And yes, I want to
act more and I want to do things that are fun.
Speaking of which, Emir, how is your experience as currently
this is I'm interviewing you right now. That's why I'm
I just want to know because I loved that. I
loved that moment of you being able to be a

(50:44):
part of a part of that without you know, I
just in my mind like I would love to do
some animation. I would love to do some more of
that type of stuff. You know, this is the Soul.

Speaker 6 (50:54):
I haven't watched it yet, So yeah, how was your
experience times here?

Speaker 1 (50:59):
Was a dream come true? Yes? It was historical. I
love it. This is not my interview. You're not getting off, okay, no,
but I really think.

Speaker 4 (51:13):
Yeah, I mean there's some people that have to ease
into acting and do a lot of prep work and
you know, get with their coaches.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
And all that.

Speaker 4 (51:22):
But you you have a really natural, believable acting ability
that I think.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
That you should explore more.

Speaker 4 (51:35):
Like your your timing is great, which I think comes
from singing or whatever, but I think you should explore that.

Speaker 5 (51:41):
So yeah, I really I really do want And by
the way, that's a very lot of cheap sense coming
from me because chasee level and everything that you know,
just knowledge wise, I'm just like, what I the mistake
I made with glitter, which maybe it wasn't a mistake,
it was probably supposed to have. In that way, you

(52:01):
have to have a huge fall for people to care
about you. Then I guess I don't know, maybe it's
just me. That's just what they how they do to be.
But you know, after that experience, I realized you have
to work with somebody, a top tier person to bring
out the best in you. It's like anything. It's like

(52:22):
collaborating on a song, Like you can lead the way
and you could be the one doing most of it,
but at least you know when you have someone where
it's scales are more balanced. I feel like that's that's
a different experience, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
What I mean. I'm just putting out there person.

Speaker 5 (52:37):
I believe that he is. And we've been talking about,
you know, some ideas. It's just a big to put
this memoir and ad apt to adapt it into like
where we're talking about taking it. It's going to be interesting.

Speaker 6 (52:52):
It's a series. It's a it's a series, yeah all day.
I mean, just like the early years.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Uh yeah, it is.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
It can easily be an Amazon a part season like
a Yeah, that's that's it's a new brainer.

Speaker 5 (53:10):
We've been talking about that and that's not necessarily Amazon,
but I'm saying that's the thing, Like and what to
the earlier discussion about why or writing the book or what.
I don't know, don't think anybody said why, but just
to answer the thing about like how this whole thing happened,
I said, initially, I wanted to emancipate my little girl self,

(53:31):
like little Mariah. That was the goal, because nobody knew
her she was a famous I know, I'm speaking about
myself and the third person, but really I feel like
my yes, it's like a different person because people she
wasn't famous, nobody she was. She's this poor little you know,
for what a lot of people thought of as like
this mongrel type of person, and so, you know, a

(53:55):
sad kid, but with a lot of hope and ambition
and stuff. But again, the film adaptation, whether it's the
series or whatever, has to be. It has to bring
that girl to life, do you know what I mean?
It has to It's not just this princess thing that
you're seeing. There's a lot of yeah that happened.

Speaker 4 (54:18):
Hey, is there a person that you've long to work
with that you have not worked with yet? Or have
you checked off everything off on your your bucket list?

Speaker 5 (54:31):
My bucket list? No, I don't really have a bucket list.
I mean, yeah, yeah, people on it. You're on it.
Many people are on it.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
Like, I'm just not you're saying that to all the curlies.
But I mean in terms of I mean because and
I don't. I don't consider this, you know, the the
the victory lap of all I want to is you
as a I don't consider that a curtain call or

(55:04):
a swan song or anything. But like, is there is
there anything that you haven't done that you wanted to do?

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
I forgot. I forgot. I totally forgot. Dude, we have
to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Chick, thank you.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
I totally forgot too.

Speaker 4 (55:29):
I forgot. Okay, So you guys don't know. Damn, I
don't even know if I should revealed this much. Basically, in
the shortest way possible, Mariah pulled a Charlie x c
s I kind of popped.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Move she made.

Speaker 5 (55:47):
It was prior to her.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Oh yeah, I know, I know, but I'm trying to
put in contemporary.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
She she basically made a a dummy album or a project. Uh,
Chris Gaines, if you will ever, you don't know that
that that kind of pop is Charlie xy X's secret.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
I didn't know. Charlie.

Speaker 5 (56:19):
Damn, we feel superid yesterday are Look, I work at
the tonight show.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
I have to know who every gen Z person. Yes,
there's a song, I get it, but you're the only one.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
That I don't care. I love it.

Speaker 6 (56:33):
Yeah, I know that you know right.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
So basically, Charlie x X didn't want to ruin her credibility,
so she MILLI vanillied that song all these two model
girls named I kind of pop, but kind of backfire
because that song became super big pop.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Right, even though Charlie x X is, even though.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
She's a name her in her own right, she uses
the icon of pop thing as sort of an excuse
to It was like Prince and the Time, all right,
but we knew that Prince was We knew that Prince
was the Time. We knew that Prince was Chili, and
we knew that Prince was Charlie Sex.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
Things was totally. That was totally we just went.

Speaker 5 (57:17):
Dumbans I apologize, Okay.

Speaker 4 (57:20):
So let me rephrase the question. The question was that
the general public doesn't know that you've made the secret
album called Chick, in which you kind of let loose
and made a very convincing alternative rock record. What year

(57:44):
did you record Chick?

Speaker 5 (57:47):
The same year that I was doing the Daydream album?

Speaker 1 (57:52):
So ninety five?

Speaker 5 (57:54):
Yeah, always be My Baby and okay and all that.

Speaker 6 (58:00):
Yeah, can I find it?

Speaker 4 (58:02):
No, I wanted to get I didn't know how close
to the chest you were with it, so I didn't
share it with him.

Speaker 5 (58:11):
But can we one song? Can we play like a
part of a song? May?

Speaker 7 (58:17):
I mean?

Speaker 5 (58:17):
But I just can I can? I give my own
little disclaimer about this? I mean, yes, what you need
to do?

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Okay when the credits, Well, we'll play it at the
end of the show.

Speaker 5 (58:26):
Okay, but don't we don't play the whole song. But
I just want to say what really was going Unless
you want to ask me about what was.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Your I do want to ask so okay. So to
set it up.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
You you made.

Speaker 4 (58:39):
Kind of your version of Seattle grunge, neilistic all rock record.
You know what what was on your mind? Like what
made this happen? It's it's one thing to do one song,
but you made a whole ass album out of it.

Speaker 5 (58:57):
I was like observing the landscape at that time as
a twenty whatever year old music and having success in
a very kind of specific couple of genres and looking
at other people that seem to be able to just
be so as I, me and my friend call it

(59:19):
so fucking care free, Like how are you so care
free that you can do whatever you want? You can
wear whatever you want? Now, I guess everybody can, but
at the time, it was just like, oh I can.
They could just wear like a dirty slip and socks,
and you know what I mean, Like in that grunge moment,
I was jealous. I have to say. I was like,

(59:41):
and not that my image was perfect. And now if
I could go back and unblow out my bangs, I
would definitely do that and have different styling and stuff
like that. But you know, so I was looking at
it and I was like, because I did grow up
listening to like Blondie, and not lusively Blondie. I just mean,
if there were other genres, it would be like you know,

(01:00:06):
Pat Benaitar and Blondie and then whatever rock groups. And
then you know, I was a child of the radio,
so I listened to all different things rock music whatever,
you know, mainly obviously like R and B and soul
music and Gosmine whatever, but then there was also this
like heavy rock quotient that was around like where I

(01:00:28):
was growing up. So yeah, yes, but there was everything.
There was obviously there was hip hop, there was this,
there was you know, whatever it was. But there was
a very strong thread of that happening, right, So when
I saw the whole grunge thing going on, I was
looking at it like, oh my gosh. They just say
whatever they want. They say anything that they want, and

(01:00:50):
they get away with it. So I would be like
working on let's, for example, say like one Sweet Day,
like mixes or whatever, we're doing overdubs, and the band
would be there, like my band from the little touring
that I did. So I just one night was like
I was just singing stuff and making fun of, like
not making fun of, but just like doing my own

(01:01:12):
little impersonations as I do. And then I said to Gary,
who was my guitar player at the time, I was like,
can you just play? Because he's sitting there with his
guitar and he was doing overdubs on something totally different.
I'm like, can you just play it? Like whatever? So
we starts playing it and we just that's a song

(01:01:35):
called Joe. That's not the one I would love to
he I would love to hermit. But so then I
just started writing stuff down like anything I wanted to say,
finished it in like five minutes or ten minutes, and
it was relaps. But then as the projects that like
every night when we would be working, and actually, like
the corporate people were on a trip to Italy at

(01:01:56):
that time, so they weren't there to stop the flow.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
So wait, you allowed you allowed Sony Brass in your sessions.

Speaker 5 (01:02:07):
I had to allow one brass member who was like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
The Breass.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
I forgot. I totally forgot.

Speaker 5 (01:02:17):
Okay, never no nobody else he even he wouldn't allow
anybody else in there. But never, never during my vocals
was anybody loud. And then they still not, but I'm
saying like they would be if they were around. It
would be like a swift, let me pick you up
at seven and we'll go to dinner at Lascala or wherever.
And then I had to be in that wifey world
of corporate people. So it took me from like a

(01:02:41):
complete creative head to here I am like I think
such and such. You know, we talk about it in
the chapter called Thanksgiving is Canceled. That's kind of one
of my favorite things and then this year Thanksgiving really
was canceled, so it was ironic. But anyway, so I
ended up every night like recording something new and writing
something new, and it was just as a creative outlet.

(01:03:03):
But then I would then we actually mixed it and
did it and recorded it, you know, recorded it, mixed it,
mastered it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
Would you do it in another room because I mean,
ninety five, I don't think it's that. I mean, now
I can tell Steve all right, put this other song
up a real quick and he can, you know, sort
of with technology and a snap do that. But ninety
five you're working with reels and that sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
So there are still pro tools.

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
At that time, so you would just make them erase
the board and then put up your reels that you
work on your Like, weren't they scared, like, well, what
if Tommy comes in here and sees what we're doing?

Speaker 5 (01:03:43):
Or no, because at a certain point I told him
he knew about it, but it wasn't like we were.
We had separate reels like I've just found them that
saying the name Wow the group. So after we you know,
they the engineer just started rolling like you know, I mean,
at that time, it wasn't like we had to worry about,
oh my gosh, a new roll of tape, like you

(01:04:04):
know we had to.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
Do and you know, most that was printing money.

Speaker 5 (01:04:13):
Yes, yes, and we want to do that again, but
it's impossible because with streaming, we know that the artist
makes less than you know, what percentage of a penny
do the artists make basically one?

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Yeah, yeah, something crazy, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:04:30):
Very small. I failed a medio map, so I don't
know how to do that math. But I just know
if you did one hundred and thirty million streams in
a week, you should make at least a dollar off that.
And you know, this was a lab of love and
just this was just me being like, let me just
do this, write it down whatever. The musicians loved it

(01:04:51):
because it was totally it was a total departure from
what we were doing, and they got to be free,
they got to just we were all kind of in
a in an act like it was an act, It
was a whatever you call it. It was what do
you call it? What did you call it? An all rock?

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Alternative rock?

Speaker 6 (01:05:08):
Uh, what's the future of it?

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
Well?

Speaker 6 (01:05:11):
Well, well, well red folks ever know, will it all
be like a red Herring.

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
I feel like if you officially released it, though, the
magic ends. Like that's the thing, Princess the Black album
was so legendary when it was like a secret.

Speaker 6 (01:05:25):
One song, just a one song.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
And then that she came out and it was like
it came out and there's like the magic's over here.

Speaker 5 (01:05:32):
Yeah, I mean to your point about it being what
did you say when you first brought it up, Oh,
doing one song versus doing an album.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Like you did a whole album.

Speaker 5 (01:05:45):
And I also, did you see the artwork? I did
the artwork myself.

Speaker 6 (01:05:50):
Yes, that's not nice, y'all.

Speaker 5 (01:05:52):
This is me, my friend Clarissa, and I said, you
know what, because certain people were like, oh, you can't
put this out there. I also changed the lyrics so
a lot of it was a little bit more with
the perfinity and stuff because no, but he made me
change it and put something I know. But I have

(01:06:14):
the wheels at this point, so at some point I'm
gonna put out my own version. But I don't have
the board mixes. All I have like all the separate tracks,
like ten guitar tracks, and you know all of.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
This, Mariah, do you know what record store day is?

Speaker 7 (01:06:33):
Man? Man?

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
Okay, clean the fuck up. I'm gonna tell you how
to do this sun So Record Store Day. It happens
in the second Saturday of April, and they made a
second one for Black Friday in November. But what it
is is sort of sound nerd audio there. It's like

(01:07:00):
us people. I mean, this is the equivalent of like
New Jordan's coming out. So some people will sleep outside
of what was formerly known as a Meva Records in
la I mean it moved to another location, it didn't
shut down. But basically, Record Store Day is a day
that pretty much everyone lives for in April to buy

(01:07:23):
like rare you know, somebody Jack White will print joint
yeah exclusive, so Jack White will print up like five
thousand copies of some particular like song that you know,
it's either a forty five or maybe like a ten
inch or whatever, but they do it. They do it
in small numbers, so it's almost like art and usually

(01:07:45):
you know, somebody will wind up paying like a gazillion
dollars on eBay for it or something like that. I
think you should make I think you should make five
thousand copies of the record that you intended to make
and just secretly release it or record store day and

(01:08:06):
just let the legend of Chick.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Go out that way.

Speaker 5 (01:08:11):
I agree, and you know what, I think it should
be that and also the artwork should be I should
do the original artwork. And so I freaking people don't
even know. I literally wrote, Okay, so it's a dead
roach that's the cover. Then it's a lipstick written chick
on top of it that I wrote in my handwriting.

(01:08:33):
The title is some ugly daughter. That's the title of
the album. And then the back of the album is
a crushed makeup thing, a makeup like eye shadows or
pink blue pastels. And then I just did, like with
a fork at the hit Factory. I just like did
and then took a picture of it, and then wrote
all the wrote all the song titles on the back.

(01:08:55):
And then the CD itself, I did, like kiss it
like it's a whole thing, like the actual the physical
CD is amazing. And somebody gave me a copy. Somebody
gave me a copy because I didn't have one, like
you know, it was for laps. And then like I
did it, and then they ruined it by making it
not that they ruined it. I love Cloric, So she
did a great job singing on top of it, and
we worked on a couple songs. I didn't send you

(01:09:16):
those two. I did the original album as intended. That's
what I sent to you a milor. But anyway, so
it became like a thing where it wasn't allowed to
be meaning or what I was gonna do is back
then release it, do a total different character visually, and
then hopefully have a hit with one of the songs,
and then reveal that it was me and be like huh.

(01:09:37):
Because at that time, it was very much like if
you were quote unquote popular on the pop charts, you
could not have critical acclaim. They just didn't give a chap.
They just didn't care. It was just like a da
da da, you know, we like this artsy person, we
like this edgy person, whatever, And so it was what
it was. But at this point I do think Chick

(01:09:59):
me us to have its own thing. And I actually
been having conversations with someone I'm not going to name
about doing like another version of Chick some of those
songs and writing a couple of new ones. And I'm
asking you now if you will write those with me,
or at least like explore it, because she's a young
sixteen year old girl who is very famous and she's

(01:10:22):
perfect for this, and We've already had conversations about it,
and I'm planning on, like hopefully working on it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
It's coming out, yo, Billie.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
No know that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
I'm like, yo, actually now I'm riah. But why actually,
why you bullshit? Actually? Why you bushit?

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
I knew who you choose Mariah, but on the real yeah, right, talked.

Speaker 5 (01:10:59):
About she and I. She's an actress, but she wants
to sing as.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Well, and you know it's a good look. It'll work
with her too. It'll work I'm talking about right, Yeah,
I know it'll work.

Speaker 5 (01:11:10):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
I think you should. I think you should definitely do that,
Rio because out of I mean you've been talking now
for like three out out of everything that you've talked about,
this is the most excited you sounded about anything.

Speaker 5 (01:11:24):
M hmm. Well, because I can talk about my own
top stories all the live long day, but this is
something that and it's something that's fun. It's not you
don't see that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
I'm not thinking and it sounds like you. I mean,
it's just I'm just from you know, just sitting here
having these conversations. You know, this sounds like the thing
that most feels like it most represents you. You know
what I'm saying, Like it seems like true to who
you are.

Speaker 5 (01:11:51):
I mean, the music represents me, I'm not saying if
it doesn't. It represents a silly side of me that
was at a time really needed an outlet. It was
a musical, but it was for laughs, which is how
I get through most things, is just making jokes and
getting through it. So it was like combining to kind
of to defense to not defense mechanisms, to escape mechanisms,

(01:12:16):
you know, to you know, it was music and it
was fun and it was me like just writing relapse.
That's why I want to play that song Hermit, because
but the funny thing is even my daughter Monrose like
so she heard it. She heard the song Malibu, and
then she heard the rest of the songs and she
just started singing the one Hermit that goes um like

(01:12:39):
it's an accident. She heard it. She goes, she's nine,
She goes, Mommy, can you send me the Chicks album?

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
And I'm like, Yo, it sounds amazing. This record sounds amazing.

Speaker 7 (01:12:59):
Okay, we are not.

Speaker 5 (01:13:01):
Wait, Mariah, this long without happening music in the background.
To be honest with you, because this is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
We're on zoom.

Speaker 4 (01:13:08):
If this was the real format of the show, then
I would have the ability to add music.

Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
But zoom that would have been.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
I know, I miss roll call.

Speaker 6 (01:13:21):
Yeah I know.

Speaker 5 (01:13:22):
I was like, Oh, I'm glad I don't have to
just put under that pressure.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
I miss roll call. But wait, can I ask something though?

Speaker 4 (01:13:30):
So basically, what was what what what I'm gathering is
what was freeing for you and what elated you was
sort of the care freeness of creating music kind of
without a care and being honest and just putting it
all out there.

Speaker 5 (01:13:50):
It was also I would have to get through without
laughing some of the time. That was part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
But humor.

Speaker 4 (01:13:57):
Here's the thing though, And even though I'm like clam
even though I'm clamoring in the mountains on the mountaintops
about your acting, it's really your sense of humor, which
I never knew you had, you know what I mean,
Like my fans.

Speaker 5 (01:14:14):
Knew, no one to know. I can't expect people to know,
you know, Like it's just like you know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Let me rephrase it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
No, no, no, no, I'm not on the outside looking in.
I've been to many of Mariah concert I've I've I've know,
I know you have a sense of humor, but it's
it's relaxed timing. But what what I feel that the
white elephant question I want to ask is like, would

(01:14:43):
you ever try to create an album in that vein?
Not under the guys of like, well, I'm gonna do
music genre this totally the opposite of what I'm known for.
Would you not ever try to extra size that sort
of freedom and your actual Mariah career, not like, hey, guys,

(01:15:07):
let's have some fun and do an alternative rock record,
or let's do a somber record, or let's do an
afrobeat record.

Speaker 5 (01:15:14):
And I hear what you're saying, but I never said
to them, let's do an alternative rock album. I was
just in that era when all that stuff was huge,
and they happened to be very talented musicians in the
room who could easily pull that off. And actually sometimes
we deliberately did stuff not perfectly.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
Yeah you had to play down.

Speaker 5 (01:15:38):
But it was fun, like it was just fun. So
to answer your question, I would love to do, honestly,
have another concept that I want to told to you
about that. We also kind of touched on when I
would do whatever, like no, I don't want to ever,
I'm not I'm not inspired to do a somber record.
I'm not inspired to do like whatever. I mean, I
would totally do something that's not my genre. Here was

(01:16:00):
the great thing about that moment. It was just free.
It was just free. And I know people experience that
without having an alternative ego or whatever, like most people
experience that. I'm sure when you're making music most of
the time it's out of joy, like I don't know,
I can't be here by anything. But it's not constantly

(01:16:22):
nitpicking yourself or putting yourself like oh I hate that,
let me do it again. Like that's that's how I am.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
But is it easy?

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
Is it easy for you to create and craft songs
without having to also be your judge and jury and executioner,
like you know, to the point where, okay, I have
to make sure that this is notes correct, Like I'm
a guy that loves I love mistakes. I love imperfection.
You know, I love wrong notes, I love bending notes.

(01:16:54):
I love you know, I love imperfection so much, Like
but could you do you think you could ever like
let your allow.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
Yeah and put it out, or just do it for
labs now put it out as not as like a
side silly project, put it out as Mariah Carey.

Speaker 5 (01:17:17):
It depends on what it was. I would have to
be in the room and feel what we're doing, Like
what's the inspiration, what are we doing, Like where are
we coming from? Like, yeah, we could. I would all day,
experiment all day. I'm not going to commit to prior
to oh yeah, this is definitely coming out. I would
have to live with it, you know, Okay, what's your

(01:17:40):
thought and mirror?

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Well, this is the thing.

Speaker 4 (01:17:43):
I'm glad we finally did this interview so we can
have normal conversations because you and I have been cat
and mousing for so long, because I wanted our initial
conversation to be this podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
I get not nerd out on you in real life.

Speaker 6 (01:17:58):
So y'all have been talking this whole time.

Speaker 4 (01:18:02):
Yeah, but I mean, like I've I've been purposely holding
back because usually when I start friendships, it's it it
starts in the guise of journalists, and that makes people uncomfortable.
Like hey, by the way, when you did at the court,
and like I wanted to get that out the way here.

Speaker 6 (01:18:21):
What brought y'all too together? Anyway?

Speaker 5 (01:18:24):
The book really the book, the book that's right.

Speaker 6 (01:18:28):
Doesn't hitting you up about the food, the ritz.

Speaker 4 (01:18:30):
Crackers, Yeah, exactly. The book strung me in so yeah,
now a friendship.

Speaker 5 (01:18:37):
Inform that's dope. No, it really means so much to
me because you know, you are an incredible writer and
your level of knowledge is just you know, as we
all know, nobody's truid. But then the whole thing with
the food and the book, it's a thing. How turn

(01:19:03):
out it was one of the best years. I gotta say.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
It was one of these Christmas is I gotta try
this linguini.

Speaker 6 (01:19:09):
It's like daddy's linguini, your dad's clam sauce.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
She only she only does it for Christmas.

Speaker 6 (01:19:15):
That's the part I texted Mirror about. I was like,
I want some of that, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:19:18):
Exactly, tell you it's really good. And I didn't even
know the secret ingredient with the onions because for years
I was like, why can't I find any restaurant that
makes my dad like mix better than my dad's linguini
with white clem sauce like these Aalian restaurants even in Italy,
they don't do it as well. I was like, what

(01:19:38):
is it that you know a black man from Harlem.

Speaker 6 (01:19:42):
Me just said, you just said it.

Speaker 5 (01:19:45):
There it is. But but but they didn't tell like
he didn't. I never had the recipe. And then like
the year before he died, he gave me the actual
recipe and looted it down. And then yeah, and then
who's the best gift he ever gave me? And then
I realized what I was doing wrong. I never knew.
I never saw him onions in it as a kid.

(01:20:06):
But they liquefying the PM. That's the secret. So every
year now I just do it, and it's this Christmas Eve,
it's every Christmas Eve. I just decided I'm not doing
Christmas dinner with the traditional nonsense. It was a mess
this year, no offensive this year or whatever. But the
turkey was dry, and everything you.

Speaker 4 (01:20:25):
Cooked last Christmas you cooked last Christmas.

Speaker 5 (01:20:30):
We're in January now, so yes, yes, I cooked my
dad's recipe for Lincoln or I clamsaus Eve and then
then I did Christmas dinner. But I supervised it, but
not well enough. See it's a constant thing. You have
to micro manage everything and I'm so tired of it.
Anybody listening to this podcast, please me. If you're not

(01:20:50):
a psycho and you just want a job as like
a facilitator, you feel that you really want to be
out on a level where we're going to get to
a very very different levels starting this year.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
You're talking about food.

Speaker 5 (01:21:07):
No, no, I'm talking about administrative assistant. I'm talking about
executive and hiring.

Speaker 6 (01:21:14):
And you're not.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
You do not want.

Speaker 5 (01:21:20):
We can't even organize this freaking podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
I think this this came off without a riot.

Speaker 6 (01:21:28):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
I appreciate you. You you truly let your guard down.

Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
I don't think you've ever given a three hour interview before.
I haven't, so I feel honored and I feel the
love that you trusted me so much to do this
for me. Even when you agreed, I was like, oh man,
this might be like Michelle Obama, like twenty five minutes.

Speaker 5 (01:21:47):
Oh my god. No, hanging out with you guys and
having you splash and stuff, and thank you for having
me and and everything else.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Mariah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:59):
We think he's so much for doing this for us.
Thank you so much, and thank you for the music.

Speaker 5 (01:22:04):
Thank you so much for caring. So yeah, you guys,
don't forget I'm hiring.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
Oh my god, I'm going to take that off the
podcast Jesus Christ for three hours.

Speaker 5 (01:22:25):
You need to make sure you get me somebody for real. Snybody.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
I got you, I got you.

Speaker 6 (01:22:30):
Help you can help you with that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:32):
I got you. I'm I'm an expert in this area.
I got a right.

Speaker 6 (01:22:34):
Thank you for sharing the truth. It was a beautiful story.
I mean, I know a lot of it was hard,
but thank you for sharing. It was really brave.

Speaker 4 (01:22:42):
We appreciate it, all right on behalf of a sugar
Steve Fan, Tikeolo and unpaid bill.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
You missed one unpaid bill your fault, bro.

Speaker 5 (01:22:52):
Love you guys, thank you, We love you all right.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
Yes, ladies and gentlemen. I know we made a promise.
This is a hermit from the Lost Mariah Carey Chick Project,
which is actually.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
Kind of dope.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
Dick it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
I hope you do too, all right, See.

Speaker 7 (01:23:17):
Y'all, ycome sot A.

Speaker 5 (01:23:47):
Present hiding welcome busters, go.

Speaker 3 (01:24:15):
Yo, what's up? This is fante. Make sure you keep
up with us on Instagram at QLs and let us
know what you think and who should be next to
sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our
podcast all Right Peace.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.

Speaker 4 (01:24:38):
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