QLS Classic: Michael McDonald

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course, Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Ladies and gentlemen. What is up? Um? This is Quest
Love Supreme Classic. I gotta say this is probably one
of my favorite favorite episodes of this entire podcast. And

(00:24):
I have a lot um But what can you say
about the genius of Michael McDonald. We were not ready?
Actually I think actually Fonte steals the steals the show
in this episode. Uh with this total rendition of the
out dunbar. What's happening do be Brothers episode? Uh? No
more spoiler alerts. Let's just get into it. From October seventeen.

(00:48):
This is the classic Michael McDonald episode Quest Love. Al Right,
smile Michael McDonald predation, Uh, se Prima Road called Sema

(01:14):
sub Prima Road called s Prima sub Prima Road Call
the grand I can do it one tape Srema Road
This Quest Love Yeah a k A best Love. Yeah,
I'm so chill Love Yeah because I Frema Road Call,

(01:38):
Frema Road Call. My name is Fonte. Yeah. You don't
have to run for because this show is getting bootleg
by al bun Ball Roll Prima Prima Road call Michael McDonald.
We're here to meet him. Yeah, mine name Miss Sugar,

(02:01):
John's Free Freedom, Roll Clear, Black Night, Yeah, Clear, White Moon. Yeah,
Boss Bill was on the streets. Oh wait, that was
warring you. Sorry, Roll and I'm quite smitten. Yeah, Michael McDonald, Yeah,

(02:33):
I keep forgetting roll roll. This is mcdee. Yeah, it's said,
it's me. Yeah. Does anybody have the time. Yeah, that's
all I gotta say. Rogue, fremo, rogue, some freema. Wait, sorry, Fante,

(03:13):
I knew you gonna what's happening? Reference? Man, is what
that was? I was like dun ball, dune ball. Yeo, Okay,
I'm gonna be I have to admit that I spent
three hours in bed trying to think of the perfect

(03:35):
one to reference, like for real, from like three in
the morning to maybe like I dozed off at six,
I had nothing, man, man, And I was like, I know,
Fante is gonna have Yeah, I was gonna. I was
gonna put a tape recorder in my hat, a laborage

(03:57):
scheme where I was gonna you know, I didn't even
remember that one. It ruled our lives, ladies and gentlemen.
Our guest today is probably the most beloved figure in
the recording industry. Um. I'll probably go as far as
to say that he's probably in everyone's top three greatest

(04:17):
blue eyed sold singers um of all time. I personally
believe that he possesses possibly the most influential and most
imitated vibrato tenor um. And you know, from his years
as an honorary Steely Dannian and a member of the

(04:38):
Doobie Brothers. Uh not to mention his solo work. Um,
Michael McDonald is a pop culture god amongst mortal men um,
you know, and his brand stretches way beyond just singing
and songwriting. I mean, he's he's damn near a lifestyle.
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to quest of Supreme the
god himself, Michael McDonald. Oh my god? Wait, thank you? Uh?

(05:07):
Are you? Are you thrown off by the fan worship
thrown at you today? Like? Because I feel like anytime,
especially when I see you, I don't know if it's
like you feel like it's a genuine appreciation for your
work or is it like is this the nariety ironic

(05:29):
embracing of you know, my work? Like, are you genuine
or is it just coming from the ironic comedy level,
like how do you how do you feel when people,
especially millennials are coming to you and well, you know,
it's it's all flattering, really. I mean, you know, I
always told my son, when you know, when your music

(05:50):
is no more no longer relevant, your pathetic comic value
might be. So you know you have to go with it,
you know, just you gotta take what you can get
when you can get it. But I uh, I'm enjoying
myself these days. You know. It's, uh, we've been out
there long enough doing this that uh, no one's more
amazed than me that we're still doing it at our

(06:12):
age and know and uh, but it's still fun, you know.
And I still love playing live and I love playing
with you guys, you know, looking forward to it. We
enjoying it too, Yeah, because I didn't know. I know
that one of the times that you visited the show,
I know that you know, where you came with Donald

(06:32):
Fagan and you know, he was sort of like are
they clowning us or are they actually respecting us? And
you know, I was we were so thrown off because
it's like, yo, he doesn't know that we like this
is what we worship, you know what I mean? And
it's not because I know about you know, yacht rock
culture and all those comedy bits on online and it
could seem like it's from a jokey angle. But I

(06:55):
always wondered, like, what was your personal perspective and as
far as like do you think it's this novelty here
or any of those things? Though you know, I always
enjoyed it and I had fun that that night, but
I did. Uh, I don't think the other guys enjoyed
it as much as I. So. Um So you started

(07:19):
out in St. Louis, right, You didn't grew up in Ferguson? Yeah, crazy?
Can you talked about that? Because literally my mother's going
to raise in St. Louis And I called her this
morning cause I was like, Mommy, did you know Michael
McDonald's St. Louis And she was like no. I said, well,
this is interesting because you'all around the same age growing
up in St. Louis very polarized. Ferguson maybe not be

(07:39):
the Ferguson that we know today. That's right, you know,
I mean, that's you know where the conversation is at
this point today is exactly where it needs to be,
you know. I mean, I think in the sixties we
all really believe that we were going to be the
generation that didn't leave the burden on our next generation

(08:00):
of racism in America, you know. Uh, And unfortunately that
hasn't proven to be true. You know, as much as
we'd all like to think, I think we made great
strides because I remember Ferguson in the late fifties, right,
talk about it because people is probably a totally different
Oh yeah, you know, I mean, you know it was
apartheid is really what it was, you know, I mean

(08:23):
nothing less. You know, when you if you were black
in America in a small town like Ferguson, and if
you know, it was you were not allowed to live
in the mainstream. You were ostracized from mainstream society, plain
and simple. You couldn't walk into the dairy queen without

(08:45):
causing a stir, you know what I mean. It was.
And I remember as a kid, you know, that wasn't
lost on me. I remember, you know, like laying awake
at night, my two great fears, uh were they were
going to drop the bomb and uh, And I remember thinking,
you know, I could have been born black. It's fifty,
you know, uh, and I just didn't understand why, uh

(09:07):
the things were the way they were, you know. But uh,
you know, even you know the fact that the reason
I mentioned is like that it wouldn't even be lost
on a four year old kid or a five year
old kid. You know, at the earliest stages, we look
at our society around us in surprising ways, and we go,
what does this all mean? Why? Why is this this way? Way?

(09:27):
Is it that way? And why don't adults do something
about it? Why don't adults make this right? You know? Uh?
And so we start right there understanding that adults don't
make things right, you know, that adults don't do the
right thing, you know. And uh, and so that we
spend the rest of our lives just kind of you know,

(09:49):
compromising with that, you know, and you know, understanding it's
not a perfect world. But you know, it's funny because
you know, for all the press that Ferguson has gotten,
it's a great town. It's it's a better town than
it was when I was a kid. I mean in
so many ways. I mean I go back there a bit,
quite a bit, you know, I don't live there anymore,
but uh, when I lived there. It was post war,

(10:13):
and you know, the downturn in the American economy was
something people don't remember. But after the war, it was
like a lot of small towns like that kind of
went into depression. You know, a lot of the mom
and pop stores closed up, and Ferguson, you know, had
had suffered that, like a lot of places until the
suburbs took over, you know, and shopping malls and stuff

(10:34):
like that, and and that pretty much killed, you know,
communities like Ferguson. So I grew up in that period
where you know, you walk down main Street versus and
it wasn't much going on. You know, Today it's it's
a it's you know, a lot more of an economic upturn,
you know. And so you know, I think what we
gotta really do as a society is learned to have

(10:56):
the conversation. You know. It's like what's going on right
now with the NFL, and you know, we we gotta
uh we you know, Unfortunately we have a guy at
the Helm who wants to stir it up and and
be divisive. You know, that's a shame because this is
the perfect opportunity for the conversation. We all need to
be having. You know, those guys are embracing peaceful protests.

(11:18):
It may not be the venue you'd like to see
it in if you're a football fan or whatever, you know,
whatever your problem with it is. And the whole idea
that it's all about the flag and the flag is
all about the military is is not true. The flag
is about freedom, and that's what the conversation is about.
And these guys aren't risking they're not destroying my property,
they're not hurting anyone. The only thing they're putting at

(11:41):
risk is their own livelihood. And so I applaud their courage,
you know, And I think it's a conversation that we've
got to have, you know, and it's going to be painful,
because growth is painful, you know. But you know, that's
that's the great America that that I think most of
us are talking about. You know, America is getting great,
you know, and it it can't continue to get great.

(12:03):
But this isn't the time to fall asleep at the
wheel or to turn back the hands of time to
something that was not great. But it's fascinating that you
grew up in such a divisive situation that you have
that you like, how did you get introduced to soul
in that way? Is it just that natural to you, because,
like you said, Ferguson, black people and white people kind
of separate in that way, like, well, you know, it

(12:24):
was it was the it was society in the fifties,
you know. I mean, uh, you know, so many of
my friends are younger than me, and they don't really remember,
you know, they don't really know and in black or
white or you know, African American or Caucasian or whatever,
they you know, might be very few of them remember
America the way it was, and uh, it wasn't great

(12:48):
for a lot of people, you know, so it wasn't
a foot loose narrative where rock and roll came in
and saved the town and that sort of thing. You know.
It's funny. The British invasion probably did more to bring
uh awareness to UH mainstream radio listeners, white radio listens
awareness of uh real American music then American radio did

(13:12):
at the time. A lot of the artists, for instance,
the Womac Brothers there they had a top ten hit
on what would have been considered black radio at the time,
which most white people didn't listen to, didn't know about,
you know, and it was a song called It's All
Over Now. When the Rolling Stones did it, it was

(13:35):
a huge hit, you know, and Bobby Womack made the comment,
we were heartbroken until the check started coming in. But
but the still that's that speaks like you know, even Motown,
as popular as it was in mainstream radio. Uh, the
British acts, the Beatles probably had some of the biggest

(13:56):
hits of Smokey Robinson songs, you know, because they reached
a whole of their audience and that that was segregated
in the United States at that time, you know. Uh
so you know, uh so, even the jazz scene wasn't
thriving at all, or it was it was, but that
that was I think a very um you know, that

(14:21):
was a kind of a I don't want to say,
elite sector of intellectual music listeners society. It wasn't mainstream,
you know, jazz was not mainstream. Uh, it kind of
was in the fifties. It was probably rock and roll
kind of took over where jazz left off in the

(14:41):
fifties because jazz was that kind of bold, uh and
a lot of people growing up in the fifties were
drawn to that you know, to the the artistic boldness
of jazz and you know, and everything that was. But
then in rock and roll kind of took over the mainstream,
you know. But you know, as a kid, I remember
the first time I heard records like Edwin starrs Stopper

(15:06):
on site. That was a record that sticks out in
my mind. Um it was my sister and her friends
were playing it and never blasting it over a car speaker.
And and I up to that point was pretty much
aware of what I knew at my age group, which
was all these English bands coming out, you know, and uh,
but when I heard that record, it was it was

(15:28):
like all of a sudden, there was this sophistication to
the rhythm track that this you know, the guitar was
kind of tucked in and syncopated and and you know,
uh more interesting in a lot of ways. It wasn't
so spoke broad strokes. Yeah, it was. It had a
certain kind of sophistication that I really appealed to me.
And and it was from that point on that I

(15:49):
really started listening to artists that I had prior to
that not really been that aware of. You know, do
you remember the first record that you ever purchased. Yeah,
it is the Everly Brothers. Wake Up a little Susie.
Me and a friend of mine pulled our money and
went and bought the forty five And how once back
when you were growing up, the same as they are

(16:10):
now a buck. We're the one industry where the price
has not gone up. What was on the sorry quest?
What was on the B side of that? On the
B side, I don't remember. Uh, it was that record
in the Chipmunk's Christmas Song. It was my two big
first records. Sorry, no, no, Well I like B sides. Sorry,

(16:33):
I know I was waiting for you jazz question. No,
I mean that's I never thought of it that way,
that that rock and rolls took over where jazz left
off in that sense. Yeah, I think in a cultural sense,
jazz was that daring uh music, um taboo, A little
genre that that you know, if you were really cool,

(16:53):
you listen to jazz. You know. Uh, there a hip
factor in St. Louis, a yeah, counterculture if you will. Yeah,
I definitely took place around Gaslight Square in St. Louis,
downtown St. Louis area South, you know, kind of somewhere
between South. I'm not really sure where Gaslight Square was,
to be honest with you, but I remember that's where

(17:14):
my parents went to hear music, you know, and it
was like there were jazz clubs and uh and then
the tornado hit it. One of the big tornadoes came
through and leveled the place and it never kind of
recovered from that. You know. It was would be like, uh,
where the village and part of it? You? Uh? Concert?
Like were you attending concerts at all? Or like, what

(17:36):
was the first show you remember seeing? Ah, let me
think about that. I remember going to see, uh this
thing called the Al Sack Show. It was the big
am radio station in St. Louis, cakes Okay, and they
brought the show to town. It was like a charity

(17:56):
event and Wilson Pickett was on was one of the headliners.
So up there was the Memphis Rhythm Section, Memphis Horns,
you know, the whole the whole gang. And it was
like just this powerful experience to hear those guys and
uh keel Auditorium, you know, and that was one of
the shows. Another great show I saw there was the

(18:18):
b GS. Once I was driving around and I saw
their name on the marquee and a friend of mine
and I went in the Australian version or yeah, the
the Beatles, and this is long before their big resurgence,
you know. This was like you know sixties, you know.
And uh we went in there and it was like

(18:39):
the first two rows had people and nothing else. It
was like there was no one knew that they and
these guys came out and did this show as if
the place was filled to the brim. You know, they
just didn't undaunted. They just put on this great show.
And I remember thinking, man, that's that's pretty cool. You
know I should somehow I remembered that, you know, and wait,

(19:01):
you casually walked by, I saw the beg's on the marquet,
was like Ulsten was. Yeah, how much where shows back
then that you could just not much? It's probably about
five bucks apiece. We went in and saw these guys play.
You know, it's crazy. And at that point, had you
start singing yet to yourself and the show? Did you
start singing yet? Yeah? I was in I was in
a band. In fact, me and this this friend of

(19:22):
mine were in a band together and we um we
were just driving around St. Louis, you know, doing pretty
much nothing as usual, you know, and I saw that
on the marquee and hadn't heard a thing about it.
So we just you know, walked up and tickets were
place was not even close to being sold out, but
they did a great show. How did you start playing

(19:44):
when you self taught or did you take lessons? I'm
just it's just self taught, you know. I my I
started off playing tenor banjo for my dad, who was saying, Uh,
he was a singer and sang in a lot of bars,
not so much professionally, but he's sang, you know. Uh,
And people kind of knew him as a singer. You know,
so when he walked in a saloon, everybody wanted him

(20:04):
to sing. And so I followed him around a lot
as a kid, and uh, I would play tenor banjo
for him, and ah, he would do you know, old
like ragtime songs and Irish songs and you know, Danny
Boy was his big number. And um, so I got
the chance that the significance of that was I got

(20:25):
to hear a lot of great piano players, got the
guys that he would go to visit who played piano
in these bars, and uh, and it was amazing how
talented they were. Looking back especially, I realized that these
these these were great musicians, you know, but here they
were in the corner bar and St. Louis playing Bill Bailey,
Won't You Please Come Home? For all these drunks, And

(20:47):
they hated every minute of it. You know, anyone else
in your family singers? Yeah? My sisters both sing, you know,
and they both got got nice for background on keep
forgetting that Maureen, that's more. And she still sings with me.
My sister Kathy still sings with me. And you know,
once in a while, we'll do these shows around town,

(21:07):
just like charity events and stuff, and the family will
come out and sing for me. Would your dad say
when he realized you had the voice? Because he knew
the band Joe, he said, to get your high school
equivalent to you. He wasn't a big fan of the music,
but I mean it wasn't that he wasn't. But I
don't think he saw it as a viable living, you know,
And I don't think any parents until it becomes right,

(21:29):
that's right. No one was proud of that. I was
able to make a living at it, you know. But
in the hindsight, did you always have the voice that
we know is Michael McDonald. Probably not. There's someone's technique
in it, like who's teaching your who are you emulating?
And you know where did you learn control in your

(21:50):
vibrato and your tone? You know? A lot of my
singing voice came from uh singing in bars, you know,
because I had to preserve it. I had to say
smoke or beer and tobacco. We had something to do.
I thought it was a good thing for a while,
until it was a great thing for us. But no,

(22:11):
I early on I realized that if I wanted to
sing like James Brown and uh ah some of the
uh you know, the shouters, you know, the great uh
blues singers, I wouldn't have a voice very long if
I did, you know, you know, like uh uh Mitch

(22:32):
Rider and all those singers that were famous for their screams,
you know. But so I I developed a style that
where I could kind of sound like I was putting
more into it than I really had too. So I
could sing five sets at night, you know, and five
sets at night. Yeah, we did. We did. Like I
did a lot of that in l A. We'd play
like three or four or five sets at night and

(22:54):
sometimes go after hours you know, and something go across
town and play after hours clubs. You know. So what
brought you to l A as far as a record deal?
Originally I came out to do a record for our
Cia Records. Your own, that was my own. I'm only
hesitant to mention it for fear that someone who might

(23:14):
actually find it and listen to it. You got discovered
in St. Louis. Uh. Yeah, I was actually in Champagne, Illinois.
A plane in a bar and a producer, a guy
who I note to this day, who was from, believe
it or not, Champagne, Illinois, grew up on a farm there,

(23:35):
went to l A and he with the New Christie Minstrels.
Remember the New Christry Minstrels. It was like a folk
singing group, you know, and um he uh. If you
watched that movie Mighty Wind, that's pretty much so. Anyway,
he was in one of those groups, and he met
his wife. But anyway, he wound up producing records for

(23:56):
our Cia Records. He produced the first Jefferson air playing album.
Harry Nielsen Jose Feliciano, you know, had quite a run,
you know, producing some great records, and he heard me
in a bar signed me up and I came out
to California. And the good part of that story is
he he kept me alive by using me on sessions

(24:17):
that I had no business being on. You know, I
was playing with these guys who were really a list guys,
and they had to put up with me because this
guy wanted me to get paid. You know, I was
playing piano. I had even less business being ones on
which on which sessions? Oh, you know, things like, um,

(24:40):
everything from David Cassidy to Jack Jones too, huh, John Harton,
John Hartford, you know, just things that he was producing
at the time, some Jose Feliciano tracks maybe, but it
gave me experience I would have never gotten otherwise, you know.
And uh, really where I learned, you know, how to

(25:03):
play with other musicians on a whole other level, you know,
a more much more professional capacity. And you're still just
self taught at this point. You're just kind of figuring out,
you know. Uh, I was coming from bar bands in St.
Louis was like the first one that the bridge gets
the solo. You know, it was like we were just
rushing ahead, you know, well, uh, you know, as we

(25:24):
are very curious on quest of Supreme. We would like
to play a bit of God News by young Mike McDonald.
This is gonna be paid for change and s you

(26:00):
should go away, baby, Paul, I have we'll do to that.
I've said, you know, the stage. It's like Tom Jones,

(26:30):
I think, how old are you and all that recorded?
Uh eighteen and you sounded like forty? He say, Thomas
is I feel it? I feel it. It's nothing embarrassing
about that man, nothing better about that at all. Yeah,
this is great, thank you so um uh while within

(26:55):
an in the l a uh are you interacting at all?
Or how are you running into what will eventually be
your peers of the mid seventies to mid eighties, like
the Picardo's, the Pages, the Yeah you know that was.
I probably met those guys more on the club level

(27:16):
doing casuals. One of the first gigs I ever remember
meeting Jeff macarl I'm not even sure I met him.
That night we were playing at a club in the
valley San Ferinanto Valley and his band came in and
played and they were all under age. They were all
like junior high school age and uh trying to remember
the name of the band. They were named after their

(27:38):
street they lived on and it was all Grant High
school kids freshman year and Jeff was this phenomenal drummer
and they were kind of a fusion band, you know.
So uh it was interesting because, uh, every ending Jeff
Jeff kind of did a simple solo for it. It
ended each song with this you know kind of you know,

(28:00):
and uh, but he was obviously really great, and uh
the next time I heard about him doing sessions after that,
and uh, the next time I met him, we played
a casual for a TV show that was a rap
party for Universal Studios, and uh, make a long story short,
my girlfriend was the contractor on this show. She was

(28:21):
a bass player at the time, Brandy, and uh, wait
a minute, no, no, no, no, But she she left
to go do a gig in Vegas and she said,
make sure you do this gig and we could get
the band together. And when you do this gig format,
I said, sure, She goes, You're not going to leave
it to the last minute and you know, and and

(28:43):
have it be a complete, uh you know, disaster. I said, no,
I promise I won't. Of course I did, and you
did right. So at the last minute, I called the
sex player friend of mine, and he goes, I know
these cats, they do sessions, he goes, but they love
to play and they'll probably do it for free. I said,
even better, you know, but I just think I need somebody.

(29:04):
So we all showed up. None of us knew each other,
We didn't rehearse. We just played every top forty song
we could think of, and then for the next three
sets we played the same ones over again, but they
were all pretty drunk by then. Nobody cared, you know,
and uh we Uh it was Jeff macarl, David Page,
Mike Macarl on base. Yeah, and uh. The next time

(29:26):
I talked to Jeff was like a year later. He
called me through the same girl, Brandy, and he said,
I'm looking for Mike. We're auditioning for Steely Dan, and
I thought maybe he could play some keyboard and and sing,
you know, do some of the backgrounds because they're looking
to kind of keep the band small, you know. And

(29:47):
so as soon as I heard, I threw my piano
in my Pinto and I drove down to Modern music
and uh audition and you know, miraculously got the job,
you know, and I wound up touring the world those
guys before they broke up? Were you playing a Walitzer
or a little black worlds? Yeah? Okay for those that

(30:12):
don't know, And I've always just heard the legend of
Steely Dan just being a studio group, Like what was
the initial meet and potatoes of the band? You you
came in during what Katie Lied or right? They they
hadn't started Katie Lie yet. They were partzel Logic was
a record they were touring on. They just had just
finished Partzel Logic. So was there ever besides Fagan and Becker,

(30:38):
were there core members that were Yeah? Yeah, Well the
band at that time existed as Steely Dan, Donald Walter
h Jimmy Hotter on drums, and Jeff macarl on drums,
uh and U Walter played bass, Denny Diaz played guitar,
and Jeff Baxter played guitar, and Uh myself playing with

(31:04):
some keyboards and singing backgrounds of Royce Jones played percussion
and sang backgrounds. And Royce was another l a guy
that played clubs and you know, uh a great singer
and a great percussionist. But so we were that was
pretty much the core group, the whole group right there.
And how is it moving into their their band because

(31:25):
as a self top player, I mean the stuff they're
playing is pretty yeah, like how did you figure out
that stuff out? Um? Well, Donald showed me, you know
what do you wanted me to play? Pretty much? You
know and and uh, which was basically backing him up
on piano and with with electric piano and uh, and

(31:45):
it was it was great. It was a real education
for me, especially in songwriting, because all of a sudden
I saw how he voiced these chords that uh and
there was a simplicity to it that was ingenious, you
know that I kind of learned that a lot of times. Uh,
the the harmonic vastness of their songs really came from

(32:06):
the fact that the chords were very simple kind of triads,
you know, with not in unusual forms you know like
one yeah, yeah, like words and um. A lot of
times that's how the chords moved, you know, in that
kind of symmetric pattern. But it it really if it

(32:28):
gave it just opened my whole head up to composition,
you know, pop songwriting and know for sure, Yeah, but
how can you explain the phenomenon and steely dam because
it's for me, maybe because I grew up ten years later.
You know, I see probably the figure that I see

(32:50):
that came close to experimenting as far as he could
and staying pop was printed. So what what were the
were Fagan and Becker's work habits as far as like
was their intention to make digestible pop music multi layered

(33:13):
with this this intricate jazz approach. I mean, and I
know at least watching the documentary for like Asia, and
how how anal retentive they were, like, how as taste like?
How what were their work habits like in the studio
it was, you know, nothing stood in the way between

(33:36):
them and the end game, you know what they really
were trying to go for. What I find most interesting
about Stevie Dan I remember we toured with him not
that long ago, maybe but four or five years ago,
and of course we I would stick around every night
and listen to their set and they every night I

(33:57):
would it would hit me, you know, these guys were
the darlings of Top forty radio for like ten fifteen years,
and there's music is so weird, you know, it's so
strange and it's so eclectic. How did they manage that?
You know? But you know, I know in there as
far as their work habits, like you mentioned, they were
very insulated. Donald and Walter, they they seemed to be

(34:19):
to me that they would kind of go off somewhere
unknown to anyone else and write these songs and uh
and I know that just from my own experience of
being around them in rehearsal and stuff, that some of
the influences they had were surprising to me. Like Duke
Ellington is it was a huge influence on on those guys,
you know, on the on the makeup of their band

(34:40):
and the the you know, the chord progressions they wrote,
the way they you know, the harmonic sense that they
had with their songs was uh, they really that sophistication
that Steely Dan has kind of probably the most direct
influence I can think of, it would be Duke Ellington
and our just like that, you know that we're uh

(35:03):
that they somehow kind of twisted into this pop uh
format gen right, you know, all right, So I'm just
gonna jump to it. Um pig how this background how
um I feel like PEG is probably on record is

(35:28):
one of the most intricate crafted background. Oh you're trying
to imagine. I was like, why are you listening? To
Michael mcdad. He's like, no, no, no, no, that's not
right that this is me, this is my mad like

(35:52):
has a dedication to you, Like, how do you think
it sounds better than what the last time we sang? Well,
that's what I was gonna ask one. How do you
how do you how do you guys recreate this stuff
on stage? Well, it was just a group of us,

(36:15):
you know, singers and and are they you know, we
tend to one stage as well. Donald kind of gives
us the parts, you know, and like when I sang
it in the studio, my biggest problem was I couldn't
sing the harmonies listening to the last harmony I did
because it was too close and you do it separate? Yeah,
you know, if if I, if I were a little

(36:36):
more uh schooled as a singer, I might have been
able to pull that off. But so I would just
have them turn off the last part I sang and
then give me the new part. I'd sing it, and
then the first time I heard it altogether was after
I finished it, you know. But but on live on stage,
we would sing the parts, uh and we would you know,
you'd get your part in your head and then you

(36:57):
only have to be responsible for that one part. And
with Donald, I always wanted to make sure I sang
it in tune and on time, So I sang most
of those parts while staring at him across stage to see.
But are there five other people also matching the news? Well?
The girls and uh yeah, it was me and the
girls pretty much, you know, uh, and and Donald. You know,

(37:18):
it was the touring unit, not it wasn't the same
as the studio unit. Correct, No, No, it was the
Stulye Dan as it has been in recent past, with
Katherine Russell and Caroline Lionheart singing and two great great singers.
You know. Wow, Um, yeah, kudos to that. I still

(37:40):
don't think you get enough credit for respect for that.
I mean, it just sounds so effortless that you take
it for granted. It Well, those guys, that was all
there was always there, you know. I came in late
on these recordings that the Typically the tracks were done
and how physical how long did it take for you

(38:01):
to do? Uh? You know? Typically, I don't think I
ever did more than two tracks in a in a
given session usually, you know, and more probably more often one.
You know that they were concentrating on for that day.
You know. Um, so you're saying you just literally breathe
through Peg and under Half. I wouldn't say I breathed
through anything with those guys. You know, it was uh,

(38:23):
you know I And there were some tracks I actually
didn't I wasn't able to do, you know, like, uh,
I remember Dr Who. They had sent me that track
in advance and said, you know, we would like to
hear your voice on this, and I love the song
and I wanted more than anything in the world to
be able to do that track because I just particularly
love that tune, you know, And I couldn't. I couldn't

(38:44):
do it. You had to sing it all in one breath.
And I smoked way too much at that point in
my life. So I was really disappointed. And of course
they never let me live it down. But you know,
it was all in good fun. But you know, there
were times when I really was not the guy. So
how did they Yeah, I know they're they're infamous for replacing, Like, Okay,
you're not gonna nail get someone else? How how do

(39:06):
they break that news to you? Hurt? Usually? No, it
was you have to take those guys. They always had
a great sense of humor, those guys, and you know
they would be the first two that got fired. You know,
they would fire themselves before they fired everyone else, right,
So I mean a lot of the tracking, Donald would
have Michael Marty and play piano or uh and U

(39:27):
or Victor Feldman and uh Walter would have different bass players,
you know, so one standby in the break room like
Chuck Brainy. Oh. You know, they just would they would
just go ahead and hire other guys to do the
parts that they you know, would do live later, you know,
just just to get the track to feel the way

(39:47):
they wanted it to feel. You know. Um, were you
guys aware at the time that you were laying the
blueprint for And there's always debate on you know, I
I see, I mean, I'm seeing yacht rock now. I'm
probably you hate the term yacht rock the same way
that I kind of scuffled with the word Neil soul.
But I mean, in the hindsight, it's a very quick

(40:09):
way to describe this time of music. Yeah, I don't
know if it's like a California sound or whatever. And
it's so weird because I know that critics, at least
back then like the guys that I interact with now,
who are music critics that are like kind of in
their sixties now in seventies. I can tell like they

(40:30):
seem so not apologetic. But you know, if we talk
about second Half of Chicago or Toto's music or whatever,
like any you know, they're always like I'm sorry, and
I'm like, no, like I love that ship, Like like
I don't listen to n w A at the time.
I listened to everything else. But critics were you guys

(40:53):
sort of aware of critics sort of well, I mean
they didn't dismiss Steely Dan as much, but I'm just saying,
like critics hold Scott Nosen of what l A Soft
Rock was, you know, yes, and no, I mean, I uh,

(41:18):
I think we we got a lot of you know,
bad press a lot of the time, you know, for
initially and then you know, if the record got popular,
then it was you know, we always loved it. Yeah,
you know, but but I think that's just that's just
kind of comes and that's kind of part of the deal.
You know. Um, I don't know that we were any
different than anyone else. You know. It's funny. I was
watching the Eagles documentary and you know, I thought every

(41:41):
album they had was like this gigantic success, you know.
But according to the documentary, there were periods and records
they did where the record company was thinking of dropping
them or you know, or you know, they went through
their own trial and era of uh, and they wanted
to be more of a rock band, and it was like, oh,
come on, this country band wants to be a rock
band now you and they had to face all that

(42:01):
same kind of run, that same kind of gauntlet with
critics and record people, and so I think every band
goes through that, you know. Uh, it's it's just what's
going on in the inside compared to what people think
is going on from the outside. Well, speaking of which,
since you brought it up, were you aware of any
kind of light ribbing rivalry between the two camps, the

(42:22):
Eagles and Steely Dan? I know the lyric wise they
were thinking, No, I I didn't. I didn't really think
that was true. I think that was a manufactured kind
of a pressed thing, because I don't know that it
really ever was anything between. I think it was just
a lyric in the song, if you know what I mean.
Uh and uh kind of like uh when Chuck Berry sang,

(42:43):
I couldn't un faster or safety belt. It was just
a kind of a tip of the hat to the
times we lived in. Uh and uh you know, Uh, which,
by the way, I thought, I remember when he was
a kid that we backed him up, and I thought,
how clever is this this guy? Because safety bills had
just come out that year, Right, he is putting in
a song already, you know. But I think the same

(43:04):
thing with the Eagles. You know, the reference in that
song was just, uh, you know, it's kind of life
in today's world, you know, living what reference are we
turned down? The Eagles of neighbors are listening? You know.
I don't think it really really meant to be a
slam at the Eagles, and I think they just kind
of play, yeah, the Royal scam. Yeah, there's light lyrical references,

(43:27):
which if it were hip hop, you know. Um, so obviously, Uh,
Jeff Scott pulls you can I assume that he pulls
you into the Dubies and the Dubies as you guys
were working together on the Steely Was he in he

(43:52):
during your period? Or yes he was and we toured
together and uh then the Donald Walter Uh disbanded the band,
you know, in that period of time, and I felt
kind of like Timothy Schmidt said, you know, uh, I
just got the best gig in my life and these
assholes break up? Why after? It was uh, it was

(44:17):
excuse me, Katie Katie right after Katie Light, right before
Katie Light. Actually yeah, why did they break up? I
don't know. I wouldn't speculate myself, because it wasn't really
a part of their world that I was privy too,
if you know what I mean. I was just kind
of a higher guy. What you mean the period between
Asia do you joined the Dubi's and seventy seven? Um, well, yes, no,

(44:42):
seventy five when I had taken to the streets. I
think we didn't Okay, Yeah, so there was like three
or four years between Gaucha was and was along. So
you're saying that period wasn't just a right as Black hiatus.
It was like we break up and then well let's see,
I mean they were they were starting Katie Lied by

(45:05):
the time we got done touring, you know, and so
it wasn't too long after that, maybe six months later
that I went in the studio with them for Katie
Lied and saying those backgrounds on bad Sneakers and some
other things. Um. And then Royal Scam was the next record,
and then Gaucho I believe Asian than Gaucho. UM. So

(45:29):
you know, uh, they were. They stayed fairly busy, you know,
through that period, but they just no longer were Steely
Dans as we all knew them originally, you know, as
a band, but more as Walter and Donald you know, okay,
did you? I mean, why was I'm trying to figure
out why I want My question is, I'm sorry, why

(45:51):
wasn't it? I think the biggest you know, And again
I I it's probably not my place to even say this,
but they One of the things I I thought at
the time was they no longer wanted to tour, and
the only real livelihood the other guys had since they
weren't the writers, was the touring they did. So they

(46:12):
wanted to stay on the road. And I don't think
Donald Walter wanted to be on the road anymore. They
didn't really care for it, and U and so uh,
it just it created a whole world that they didn't
really care to be a part of. They wanted to
be in the studio and they wanted to be writing
songs and uh so they that was kind of a
necessity for them to be able to pursue that more freely,

(46:37):
to not have the band to consider, you know, because
going on but the written So how how easy was
the transition to the Doobies. Um? Surprisingly easy? Uh not
nothing I counted on. I mean I got the call
from Jeff and uh I flew down to New Orleans

(47:01):
and really it was only obsensively. I was just gonna
fill in for Tommy while he was took up medical
leave pretty much from in the middle of this tour. Um.
And then as things progressed and that tour came to
a close, u Um, there was the back then. It

(47:23):
was like the Dubious was one of those bands that
they took very seriously an album a year, you know,
and the label was really after them to get another record. Um,
and the way things worked out, it was kind of
just okay. They we were all kind of caught unprepared.
I really didn't see myself as part of that part

(47:45):
of the band. But uh I had made a demo
with Tyranne at his house and he had put together
his home studio and he said, you want to try
recording something, said Serro. You know, I was just over
his house for dinner. And so we threw the song
down of just something I had been in my head
and you know, and I we recorded it and I

(48:08):
put the vocal down and we thought it sounded pretty good. Uh.
He played it for Ted Templeman, and Ted said, you
guys should cut this. This is kind of weird and different,
you know, for the band. And there was a song
called a Losing End, which was like the last song
on Earth. I thought the Dewbey Brothers would ever do,
you know, and that would wind up being like the

(48:29):
first track we cut on for the take of the
Streets record. And then so I hurried up and finished
a couple of songs that have just been living in
my head, you know. One was Taken into the Streets
and keeps You Running and h and so that the
album kind of started to take shape. Pat had some songs,
and and Tommy was not really ready to come back

(48:50):
to the to the group, and in that touring schedule
and and uh and work, he was still pretty much
on hiatus at the time, and and in his departure
was such a gaping hole. And as you can imagine
you know, in the band it was. He was such
a driving force in the band the whole time and
and to this and remained. That's even during the time

(49:11):
I was with him. A big part of our show
was the songs he had written for the band. You know.
So I mean you we're kind of thrown into a
position similar to Dennis set words the New Temptation or
even James J. T. Taylor. Um. But as far as

(49:31):
the songs that, uh, that he sang lead on, like
when you were first doing your touring with them, like
were you were you having to do uh listen to
the music? Yeah, like oh yeah yeah. In fact, when
I the first gig I did with him, I I
flew to New Orleans. I got picked up by these

(49:52):
two guys that I didn't know whether they were taking
me to rehearsal or kill me, you know. Uh and
uh he rehearsed in in this place called the Warehouse
in New Orleans. And UM at the time, at that
time in my life, you know, uh, there was a
lot of things going on with me. I was playing
clubs for a lot of years. I probably was uh

(50:17):
easy to say, down on my luck so to speak,
you know, financially and I was, you know, uh, living
in a garage in Burbank. Uh and uh, I thought, well,
you know, when I got to meet all these guys, ah,
I thought, well, this is the gig I've been waiting for.
Everybody drinks as much as I do, and you know,

(50:38):
and they kind of Uh it was a pretty rowdy
bunch of guys, you know. And uh, but they seemed
to have fun and it was a good band. But
the thing that struck me the first time we played
was I was just playing these songs in a bar
two you know, two nice before I came down here
in Burbank or Pasadena, you know, Uh, because they were

(51:00):
like the big It's like Mustang Sally listen to the music,
long train running. You had to know those songs if
you're gonna play in any of the dance bars in
l A. Area. So and here I am on stage
with these guys playing these songs. I thought that was
kind of ironic, you know. But um, And for the
that whole period of time, during the time I was

(51:20):
with Steely Dan and the Dubies, I lived in two realities,
you know. I was I'd come home and go back
to work at the Trojan Club in Pasadena and then
be ready to hit the road with Steely Dan and
or the Doobie Brothers. You know. So wait, you were
in two full fledged bands. Well, no, I am doing

(51:41):
your your regular club. Yeah, the no the Dubies and
Steely Dan. That was separate things. But during that period
when I was with Steely Dan and when I was
you know, one minute, I was touring Europe with Steely Dan,
next minute I was back in Pasadena playing at the
Trojan Club. And then I got an audition to go
to New Orleans to play with these guys and I

(52:02):
stayed with them. But during my time off, I went
back to playing clubs again, just you know, just just
to stay in, you know, in the circle of guys
that I played around l A with. You know, how
much were you making around it? I'm gonna say, could
you make a Bible living? Were like, okay, not really no,
I mean back then, for a lot of reasons. One

(52:23):
was we we weren't that serious about our top forty
chops and our gigs. You know, we didn't really We
weren't one of those bands that really made a living
at it. We were guys that did it for the
weekend to make a couple hundred bucks piece, you know,
and have some spending money. And uh, we typically didn't rehearse.
We just kind of got together and you know a

(52:45):
lot of the songs you can played and so, you know,
it was that kind of existence in l A. And
then I looked to play with and sing on what.
I did a lot of background singing, So that was
probably more of a living for me at the time.
You know, you know what White Luther the same story

(53:11):
because even you know Luther's tenure with cheek and do
were you did you cut your teeth like the jingle
circuit at all? Like, uh, not so much the jingles.
I did a lot of sessions though with Luther Vandres,
James Ingram, Philip Ingram, you know, we we were like yeah,

(53:32):
and uh we did a lot of background singing for
a lot of people, you know, during that period of time.
You know, I don't know, back then, Uh, singing for
publishing houses was a good living. So I think that
was more Nashville in New York because l A. It
was really typically more the and it wasn't even a
real viable demo scene. Typically people did their demos for free,

(53:55):
you know. And and it wasn't like Nashville where you
can make a living just playing on demos for publishing companies,
you know, because there's a lot of publishing companies there.
But l A, the publishing companies weren't. They weren't in
the fray like they were in New York. And and uh,
you know, l A, I mean in Nashville. That wasn't that.

(54:17):
It wasn't that sector of the music business out there,
you know, so you couldn't. My assumption is that, you know,
by seventy five seventy six, when you're like deep into
doubt them, this wasn't like, Okay, I got a good job.
I can well it was coming after a while, I

(54:38):
quit doing the other things, you know, I mean and
and and went off to just be a doobie brother,
you know. But okay, but I just meant as a
do you still feel like this get in any moment?
And I got yeah. I mean I think we all
do in a way. I mean, even now, do you
feel like, well, let's put it this way, I'm surprised
I'm still doing this for a living as much as

(54:59):
anyone else. And you know, because I mean, your first
look is always like I'm still here exactly. Yeah, you'll
wake up and go, oh my god, you know, but
I mean, you know, and on the road, there'll be
any number of times I'm sitting there going you know,
you're sixty five years old. You know, what the hell
are you doing out here? You know? Um? And I

(55:20):
can only gauge the sanity of it by am I
still having fun? You know? I mean, because to me,
it's still fun to play live more than almost anything else.
I think I enjoy playing live more than I enjoy recording.
So okay, now, I know you said this didn't mean
anything to you, and you forgot about this in quote.
Here we go, But what's happening? You can't you can't

(55:50):
make me believe that you know black person and therefore
we'll do that. But no black person in their forties
the fifties doesn't mention that to you every day. And
I didn't mean to downplay the importance. That's a very
vivid memory and my you know, for us, it was
did you guys feel like it was an important move

(56:11):
like exposure? I don't think we had the sense to
realize how important it was, you know, And we just
did it as a lark, you know, and uh uh,
you know, we thought it would be fun and our
publicists kind of brought the idea to us and we thought,
oh yeah, you know, let's do that. You know, we
were just and it was a two part episode. Better yo,

(56:32):
that was my first to be continued. Why why don't
you break it down for the people that haven't seen that? Okay, yeah,
so okay. There was a comedy show based on the
movie Cooley High called What's Happening in the seventies that
featured Ernest Ernest Thomas Jr. Thomas Nelson, and Fred free

(56:52):
run Berry who was a prominent member of the Lockers Okay,
Mabel Ka. So it was a very popular popular I
would dare say it was probably the Martin of the seventies. Well,
Martin started and What's Happening Now? But that's that's right,
he did Martin. Yes, I forgot that anyway, So yeah,

(57:16):
there was. There was an episode you Gotta explains Al
Dunbar played by the late great Theodore Wilson. I thought
his name was Sweet Lou or something like that, Like,
didn't he have a sweet title? He was? He was sweet,
he was good, same guy. He was one of those
black actors like you saw in Every Black Thing. So
like he was he was sweet daddy, Sweet daddy. Okay.

(57:44):
So basically there's so where the Doobie Brothers are coming
to perform at Rodgers uh High School, and you know
rod he writes for the paper, so he's covering the show.
And so this uh, this, this guy from the Underworld,
the schevy guy approaches re Run and Rob's play by
the name of Al Dunbar and he's like, hey, yeah,
how would you like tickets for this concert? And he's like, uh,

(58:07):
what's the catch? Ain't no catch, I don't know what.
You just record this show, fun man and so and
so he asked him to record this show on like
this huge fucking tape recorder. It's like, whoever thought that
this was gonna work anyway? So he basically asked re
Run to be like the first Napster and ship and
bootleg the Duey Brothers show. So he go up to

(58:31):
the joint and so they had really to do it.
You know, he put he put the stiff form on
him and he had his gun with him. His goon
was was Bruno, I think his name was Bruno, and
he was at the end and the episode ends, he's like,
oh man, because they try not to do it and
so we run is like, no, I want to do it.
We could get in trouble. Alright, alright, alright, well you're
just gonna have to tell Mr Bruno here, he's not

(58:52):
gonna get paid Mr Bruno for you please pull up
a chain and talk to us, certainly. And Mr Bruno
goes and pulls up at and the joint is and
it's like to be continued. So then the joint opens
up and so like they actually talked with the duties
in episode two, they're talking before the show and so
like they're like, so what do you think it's the
biggest problem. I actually have biggest problem BG. So they're

(59:18):
talking to stuff. So anyway, the show goes on, is great.
Michael does he does take it to the streets at
actual Dubie Brothers concerts. Did you guys do that fire thing?
Every every everybody has their the night I almost set
my house on fire moment I might have gotten a

(59:39):
que tip listening twice side playing with matches. Yes, you're right.
If I watched TV, it was influential. Was very good
for you guys. Not let me watch that much television. Yeah,
when I saw the Gone Thing, I went in my
my basement on the drum and try to hit and

(01:00:01):
it was not good. Was that? Did I actually do that?
In Fresh I can't tell you. Well, I don't remember
really what we did on the show. Uh he he
lit the guy on firewall. It was it was on
fire now and it was cut into like d and rerunning.
They were all like looking and stuff. And so then
I think y'all doing take They played up like a

(01:00:22):
high school and Compton though like the high school the
Dude Brothers doing a rock show. All right, everybody's excited. Yeah,
everyone loved Dude and so because because the album was
Living on the fault Line. That was the album at
the time, and they were talking about it. So anyway,
so the crowd is going crazy and and uh, MIKEA.
Mcdonnald's killing taking to the streets, singing, just going in.

(01:00:45):
You don't know he was. It was so strong he
was saying through his beer, was sometimes so goddamn might
not I'm saying that ship and got damn we want
to get up and start jumping up and down, and
the TAU and everybody and the smooth criminal League. That's

(01:01:10):
the first time I saw the screuth ruminal league. Not
everybody Michael Jackson, and it's like, so then at the
end of the joint, they're sitting at the I guess
everybody left. They went back home to company. And so
then they're sitting and like the dude Rubbers just like, yo, man,
that's fucked up. I thought you was our home. He was,
I know what you are our friends. But this guy
told us he would hurt us. It wouldn't be a

(01:01:31):
guy by the name of out Dumball would. Yeah, it
was Out dumb Bar. So then they go back to
Rob's place and they catch out Dunbar and they play
the tape and this just rerun eating chips. I can
hear you listening to this episode right now being mad

(01:01:51):
at to worship the storytelling stock take a little thank you. Wait,
that's not real life at that's time, that time a year.
It was never a Doobie brother show with a full
because with a full black crowd, like we're black people
embracing you got then I was like, oh, you know, yeah,

(01:02:16):
I mean it was it was funny. I found in
my solo career, my you know my first couple of records.
That's how we got on the radio was back then
it was more independently owned radio stations and uh, and
it was really R and B radio that picked up
our singles like keep Forgetting In Sweet Freedom first and

(01:02:37):
we kind of crossed over to uh like Top forty
or what are they what was it called then contemporary
hit radio, you know, but uh, we really got our
start on the R and B radio, which back then
you could walk into a small station that was owned
by a guy who was the program director and who
would sit and play your whole record with you and

(01:03:00):
and you know, you sit and play your whole album,
you know, to an audience, uh and talk about it.
And you know that's unheard of today because of all
the syndicated kind of radio things that people just can't
do that anymore, at least not much my heart having it. Yeah, okay,

(01:03:21):
so let's jump to the thank you sent me. Can
you please explain to us what was you on when
you wrote What a Fool Believes? Um, it's one of
the most notable, memorable, confusing words structures I've ever heard.

(01:03:41):
I still don't know what the song means. It's it's
he sees the wise man has the power. I know
the hook. I'm just talking about the narrative. Um, well,
you know, I think the idea was a guy living
in his own head believing that, uh, he left this

(01:04:03):
great love affair that he needs to retrieve and that
it must have been the same for her, and in
fact it meant absolutely nothing to her. And uh so
you couldn't just write you on my mind all the time, right,
I don't think you're talking about the song. Yeah, you know.

(01:04:27):
The funny thing about that song was, uh, I had
that riff in the verse riff for easily a year
or two, and I take sometimes a year to write
a song, you know, But every time I play it
for Ted Temple, he's you know, what, do you guys
got got any new stuff? You know? So I played
that little piano riff and I had just a couple

(01:04:47):
of lyrics in the verse and he, God, you you've
got to finish that. He goes, I'm telling you that's
a hit. I just feel it, and I go, well, yeah,
I'm gonna finish it, you know. Of course I never did.
And uh I was good together with Kenny Loggins for
the first time, and he came down to my house
and my sister was cleaning the house because she wanted
to meet Kenny Loggins mostly, but and uh, I was

(01:05:11):
at the piano kind of thinking of things I might
play for him. So I was playing stuff for her,
you know, going, what do you think of this? You know,
I was thinking of playing this for Kenny, And uh, she's, yeah,
that's great, you know. She's you know, picking up like,
you know, my dirty clothes on the floor and all that,
you know, and and not really paying much attention to me,

(01:05:32):
and the doorbell rings, and sure enough it was Kenny.
And the first thing he says, because what were you
just playing? I was playing her that riff? And I said, oh,
it's just something I was thinking about playing for you.
He goes, That's what I want to work on first.
And that was the first song we wrote together. And
so what was the kind of division of labor for
that record? Uh, in terms of he did, you didn't music,

(01:05:52):
he did lyrics. We both we both wrote I think both,
you know. From that point on, we came up with
the ridge or b section and then the chorus together,
you know, and the rest of the words, you know,
because I literally only had the little verse feeling. You know,
they're just kind of the tempo of the song and
the chords in the verse. You know again, are you

(01:06:14):
it's so intelligent, like were you? I know, no one
starts thinking like, Okay, this is our bulls eye moment,
this is going to happen. Like at any point did
you guys think like, maybe we should dumb this down
just slightly, because I mean, the bridge, the post bridge,

(01:06:36):
I mean, it's very steely Dan Well. I was gonna
say at that time that was really that music was,
you know, I mean everybody was trying to uh harmonize
in a new and a different way and bring something,
you know. It was it was after that that it
got to be where, well, we gotta pull us back
and make it more primitive and rock and roll and

(01:06:57):
you know all that, you know, eighties it was like,
you know, all these courts changes or you know, that's
you know, not not hip or cool anymore. But at
the time that we did it, it was steely Dan
James Taylor, people artists like that who had very you know,
James Taylor, as much as he was kind of uh

(01:07:19):
kind of came from that singer songwriter tradition. Almost folks.
His influences as a is from a jazz perspective very evident,
you know, and uh a lot of his songs and
uh so he you know, he brought a lot of
and that was the era to where albums artists tried
to do a lot of different styles of music on
one record. Like if you listen to like the old

(01:07:43):
oh you know records, you know that well, I think
Ray Charles started that where you know, you kind of
step outside your own genre and do music isn't necessarily related,
you know people, but the country at yeah, and uh
where James Taylor was great at that. He would do
an R and B song, he would do a song

(01:08:03):
with Marimba's you know, and he would do the next
song would be a very kind of guitar vocal focus
kind of thing and beautiful lyrics and so he never
shied away from any style of music that he thought
he could be sincere and and a lot of artists
were like that during that time, and that seemed to
be what had come out of the sixties, was artists

(01:08:24):
exploring other genres of music other than maybe the genre
they started out in. And so we were just kind
of doing what was kind of being done at the time,
you know, we didn't really think of ourselves as anything
too different. You know, so when you're sitting in the
audience at uh at the Shrine Auditorium and N nine

(01:08:48):
was like that was highly notable for it, so many
so much heavy heading going on as far as the
nominations were considered. And at the Grammys, Uh, you're going up.
I think you don't bring me flowers? Uh the Gambler,

(01:09:09):
M I will survive. And after the love is going right?
What was your what was the feeling? And you're like
women called your name for Record of the Year and
Song of the Year. You guys went off five major
awards except for Album I believe. Yeah it was. It
was amazing. Uh, Like did you expect it or no?

(01:09:33):
I don't think you could expect you know under yeah,
you just yeah, you feel I felt like, what are
the chances of you know, the first record of this
man Nature that I had anything to do with actually
winning a Grammy, But we were we were fairly taken
back by the whole idea that we were gonna win

(01:09:54):
not just a Grammy, but a couple you know. Um,
it was amazing and I remember I mean, not to
be corny, but my grandmother was in the audience that night.
She had come to the ground. Yeah, and I was
so grateful she was still with us and that she
was able to be here for this, you know. And uh,

(01:10:15):
but you know, I mean, it was just kind of amazing.
It was kind of surreal, really, you know, it was.
It wasn' until I drove home that night. I remember
they had sent a car for me, and I just
kind of had the guy drive up and down Pacific
Coast Highway a couple of times so I could kind
of come down from the whole experience before I had

(01:10:36):
to go home and go into my house all alone
and me by myself with this. You know. Uh, it's
funny Pacific Goes Highway. Okay, that is one of the
greatest I'm glad. You know, I'm not the only human
being that doesn't doesn't ride Pacific O Sideway just to
ride it to relax. Oh yeah, okay, sure good, there's

(01:10:57):
other people. So we're one step as it comes out.
Why did it include was there pressure to like lots? Yeah?
I felt my personal pressure really that you know, well, God,
now this record, you know, that whole thing of that
the next record is really important. You know, I've learned
that that was never true. But at the time, you know,

(01:11:18):
you buy into it and you think it's like the
most important thing in the world and it's just really
not all that important. But uh, and whatever it is,
you'll survive it. But you don't know that at the time.
And I remember feeling a lot of pressure, and I
think the band felt a lot of pressure to kind
of come up with something uh else again and something

(01:11:39):
new and maybe something even different from the records we
had done up to that moment, you know. Um, And
you know, I think at that point in time it
was maybe it kind of marked the beginning of the
end of my tenure with the Dubies, although I still
play with the guys and I still look forward to
playing with them every chance I get. I uh, you know,
great friends with him to this and uh, I really

(01:12:02):
think as Adobie brother, all of us who are ever
had any affiliation with the band. Uh, it's kind of
like once a Dubie brother, you're always adube Brother somewhere
in your heart and mind, you know. So was the
breakup amicable or yeah, it was? It was. It was amicable,
and we were like any other band. You know, we
had our moments, you know, we threw furniture at each other,
and that's where I want you to do. Like as

(01:12:24):
the new guy, how can you you're the new guy,
but you're now the definitive voice of the group, almost
bringing in hit more yea more definitive than what came before.
So it's like how much power? Were you still the
rookie that had to carry all the bag but teams jockstraps?
Or was it like um, might will be done and

(01:12:46):
we love you and then like, you know, well what
about me? I've been here since nineteen seventy one? Like
was that dynamic? Like? No, it was never you know,
because I think internally within the band, you know, uh,
I think all of us still looked at you know,
at that point in time, Pat was kind of the
senior member, you know, and and kind of the guy
everyone looked too to kind of keep the band together,

(01:13:09):
you know. Uh. In fact, it was when he left
the band that, uh, we showed up for a rehearsal
and I don't and we all kind of looked across
the stage each other, like what are we doing here?
Because without Pat, it's really just not the Doobie Brothers anything.
It was after um the live album, we did the

(01:13:31):
Farewell tour, Yeah, and uh, it just didn't seem like
there was any reason for us to go out and
try to be the Doobie Brothers anymore, you know, And
I think it was unanimous, you know, really, you know,
uh so even when you did what it takes a minute,
your your first solo record with if that's what it takes,
if that's what it takes him side belore we go

(01:13:51):
before we go to Is it true that Michael Jackson
is singing backgrounds a minute? But I mean no, he
said it, and I didn't know that was real enough,
you know. You know, it actually was a joke that
the whole tape, I've heard the whole conversation. People kind
of edited it down to to him just telling I

(01:14:12):
think it was Elizabeth Taylor. I think I'm just talking
to but he was just pulling her chain. And then
later on he tells her that he was kidding, you know,
but actually, you know what, speaking of which, you guys
have the same publicists as the Jackson's, That's right, David Guest.
So there's a photo of I don't know what party.

(01:14:35):
It was. I don't know if it was a Doobie's
Grammy party or something, but it's some sort of like
after party thing. And the caption says that you guys
did a long train running, shake your body down to
the grounds up mash up because I see I believe one.

(01:14:57):
It's Michael and Randy on stage with you guys like Tito. Yeah.
It was the Jackson's and it was at the Friars
Club in l A. It was a benefit show and uh,
I forget what the charity was. It was a Jackson
family charity and we yeah, and we we just kind
of came as guests and uh and we did we

(01:15:17):
did uh uh long train running? And has this? Does
anyone have a bootleg of this or record? You know what?
I think? I think there is somewhere out there in
the world where I wouldn't you love this? Yeah? I mean,
how do you? Were you guys big into archiving any

(01:15:37):
great I'm asking you. Were you into collecting? You say no,
but you know, people over the years would send us
stuff like that. And I once I had a big
photo album of all those different photos of the No
one has a Super eight in the studio as you're
doing like open your eyes and none of that stuff. No,

(01:15:57):
damn no, we just we we hadn't you know, we
didn't have that consciousness yet, you know. Um, but I
think the Doobies actually have a lot of Super eight
movies from early Doobi's years, you know, on the plane
and touring and stuff like that. You know. So with
your solo career, how scary was that too? Probably the

(01:16:19):
most scary thing I've ever done, you know. Uh, it
was for some reason, and I'm not sure why. I
just uh because there was a part of my life
when I thought I'm gonna go out to California, I'm
going to be a recording artist, and I had that
idea in my head. But somehow coming full circle as
a member of bands, uh uh and then all of

(01:16:42):
a sudden being kind of well, I felt like I
was walking the plank, you know, as to be a
solo artist. Yeah. But uh, and it took me a
few shows too kind of find my comfort zone. That
first tour was pretty scary, and I had a great
band and you know, Edgar Winner, um, robbin Ford playing guitar.

(01:17:04):
You know, it was an amazing Ben Willie Weeks played
bass with me and I couldn't have done better as
far as the band's concerned. Brian Man played keyboards, but
I just had no concept of how to act up there.
But it wasn't so you used to be the yeah,
you know, I could sing a couple of songs and

(01:17:25):
then someone else does all the word spotlight would shift over.
There was sweet freedom like your first music video, because
in your face. When I watched that video sometimes I
was like, oh he did he really may not be comfortable?
Did I jump? Sorry? I just was asking. I didn't
okay that it wasn't the first The first one was

(01:17:45):
I keep forgetting that we did a music video and
it was it was yeah, awkward, you know, it was
don't look at any further that it was not further. Yeah, yeah,
on you. You came on Soul trying to promote it,
and probably the best thing about it was the heavy

(01:18:07):
weights you had with you. I mean, you have Lewis
Johnson and that's Lewis Lewis Johnson, yeah, and and Jeff
picarl and great filling Gaines. You had the cats with you.
But yeah, I mean we're worshiping like you have the
gods with you. But back then it's just like, who
do we get, Let's get a well, you know, I

(01:18:28):
was lucky to be able to get those guys for sure,
and it was my two sisters singing backgrounds. Yeah, but
uh yeah I would. I would say that on a
good day you could get those guys to come and
play on TV with you. But you know that it
just so happened. Everybody was available and so, um, that's
only in particular, it was Um I was reading it

(01:18:51):
started off as a Leeber and Stoller. It was, wait,
you're kind of jumping the gun because we're about to
play around of So, Mike McDonald, I need you to
tell me what are your thoughts of hearing the song?

(01:19:11):
And what are your thoughts Chuck Jackie forgetting that you

(01:19:36):
don't keep, forgetting that you don't along keep forgetting that
you tell me? So I found this forty five in Japan,

(01:19:58):
like fit seen years ago, but it came out in
nine what how well, it's it's an interesting story. Um
and who was that? Okay? That was long John Baldry,
Chuck Jackson. Chuck Jackson did the original man Um, there

(01:20:20):
was a Liver Stoler song. Uh, and believe it or not,
unbeknownst to me at the time was my Uh it
was one of those things where we were kind of playing.
My writing partner said, you know, there's this because he
had somehow, you know, I mentioned the song or something
and I was kind of just playing the piano or

(01:20:42):
if any. He goes, what's that. I go, well, that's
what you were just saying, and he goes, no, no, no,
he goes, that's totally different. And uh so we we
wrote the song. You know, I was immediately reminded by
other people that, you know that that's closer than you think,
you know, so, uh, you know, we got in contact

(01:21:02):
with Mike Stiller and Jerry Leeber and we realized that
we had infringed on their copyright, you know, and they
were gracious enough to give us some credit for the
this version of the song. Kind of weird that you
technically wrote a song with the guys that like you
that's a real building classic. Yeah. I was not, I

(01:21:24):
you know, I mean, I don't mean to say this like,
because you know, I knew better I shouldn't. The minute
I heard this guy say, oh no, that's not I realized,
you know, I better listen to that song before I
make any you know, but I didn't, you know, and
I just you know, we we recorded it, our version
of it anyway, and uh, and right away one of
the guys that Warner Brothers, one of the producers war was, said,

(01:21:47):
he gave me his tape because listen to this, you know.
And I said, oh, well, you know, yeah, for you
at least. Yeah. Well, I I realized that we needed
to you know, get their permission, and you know, and
and they, like I said, they were nice enough to
give us their permission to release it and put it out. Uh,
but you know, and and credit were credits. Do you

(01:22:10):
know that that that song ours would not have existed
but for their original song? You know? So let's jump
who's credited. Who's credited officially for the writing of that song? Sorry,
who's officially credited for the writing? It's so Mike Stoller,
Jerry Lieber, myself and Ed Sanford for for our version
of it. Yeah, the original version was a libre stoler song.

(01:22:34):
So twelve years later, the song comes back to haunt you.
Yeah and the most the most gangster rapped narrative of
all time. But using this as a backdrop with with Oranges, Uh, defunk. Uh,
what were your initial feelings or you know, um where

(01:23:00):
the text? Not where the text? Nice? But you know,
did you have were you hesitant to clear? No? You know,
but back then, what I what I remember was typically
somebody would give you, you know, ten grand and it
was theirs, you know, I mean, it wasn't like the

(01:23:21):
deals that are made today where you know, like now
it's it's it was a one off. Yeah, yeah, it
was just like you know, well, you know, we want
to sample this? What'll it cost? That? That wasn't a
one off though, right? Not that song? Yeah, but I
was gonna you the version of my kids, like you know,

(01:23:48):
but yeah, but then the expressed I'm sure there was
renewed interest in hearing it live all of a sudden. Um, yeah,
you know, it's funny, yeah it was. It had a
certain impact on on the you know, the art record.
So many people think that's the version of the song
that you know as this you know, like yeah, uh,

(01:24:13):
I'm not even sure. My own kids didn't think that,
you know, because they hadn't really heard my version. They
were weren't even born yet, you know. So have you
have you ever performed it with Warrengy. Once someone comes
that has to happen, ESPEC make it and he has.

(01:24:41):
Did you hit that? Michael? You heard that? I thought
I just saw those guys on some TV show or
a documentary of some kind, and it was like, wow, man,
it was Is that the first time hip hop artist
asked you for the rights or UM? I believe it was.

(01:25:01):
And we've had quite a few things sampled since then.
Minute by minute was sampled. Uh. Thanks, that was hard.
It's not straightforward. Wait, oh god, the interim it throws
me off every time. I'm sorry, I know, but like
every time I hear it, I'm still like, wait a minute,
wait hit. So yeah, there's no regrets of it at all,

(01:25:32):
you know, like all things it, Uh, what's kind of
like the Rolling Stones with I used to love her.
It's all over now, you know, you know, you know,
first they were going, oh, you know, we gotta we
just had our first top ten record and these guys
scoop us, you know, and and then he said, but
then when the check started rolling in, I wouldn't didn't
feel so bad about you. Weren't mad anymore. How did

(01:25:53):
you get into working with UM for Carlie Simon, but
like you Belong to Me, Carly, I played on some
we play the Dubies actually played some tracks on on
her the album before that. We we Uh. She used
us to play on Oh Gosh, a song that she

(01:26:17):
had recorded and I can't remember what it was now,
but we played. We were the rhythm section. And it
was upon meeting her during those sessions, um Ted said,
you know, you guys should write together. And so the
first chance I got, I had a little thing on cassette,
you know, which was you Belong to Me and the

(01:26:38):
chord progression, and I sent her the cassette um and
she wrote a lyric and sent the lyric back written
out on paper, which I wish I still had, you know,
and uh and uh I had given her enough melody,
just kind of mumbling, you know on the tape that
she kind of wrote to that and that Cadence and uh.

(01:27:04):
We never spoke the entire time we wrote the song together.
It was until like five years later she had a
number one hit with it, or you know, at top
five record with it, and I wasn't your version first
though was first. It was never a single for us,
but it was kind of a popular album cut. But uh,
so about five years later she had a hit with it,
and uh, I thought, well, you know, jeez, I should

(01:27:27):
call her and say congratulations or something, you know, And
I saw I called her on the phone. We kind
of laughed about the fact that we hadn't spoken about
this for the last so many years. You got the
backgrounds on away from her. I didn't sing on that record,
not on her first Yeah, just the Doobi's record when
I sang and did the background song, and so I

(01:27:48):
forget she she did that record in New York. That's
you singing backgrounds on h right, like to win? Christopher Cross?
How did that call about? I love that record? Actually,
it was like we were like a day like today,
We'd be sitting in the studio, uh and Doobi's, you know,
in studio Amigo and uh Christopher Cross was his first

(01:28:12):
album was being cut in the studio next door and
the producer was Michael Martin, and he came over and said, Hey,
would you if you get a minute after after you
guys are done, would you come over and sing a
background part for me? And I said sure and just
kind of went over and how did you feel about
the SETV sketch, which we we recreated that sketch on

(01:28:36):
the Tonight Show where we literally had him run into
the studio making it to the keyboard just in time
to say just like THEV sketch second second, yeah, kind
of the snl of was it? Yeah? Yeah, it was

(01:28:57):
like And the bit was based on the fact that, uh,
every time his part comes up, such a long way
to go that he would literally like do plane trains
in the automobile, like order plane on the train running
at this sound just to literally get to the microphone
in time for such a little and then run away
and then you know, do it every time. But we

(01:29:18):
when we had Christopher Cross on the show, we didn't
announce the audience that Michael McDonald was there. We just
had an empty keyboard. And as soon as Christopher was playing,
wasn't he wasn't Keith playing it at first? Oh you're right,
you're right, keeping feet shout out of keeping feet. Yeah,
And so right when the bridge came in, Michael McDonald

(01:29:41):
just ran in bump Keith off, and such a little
Michael McDonald because of the Cross like I got. You know,
the funny thing about that that SETV bit for me
was Uh. I had just left a friend of mine's
room and one of the other band members and we
were on the road and we had just smoked this

(01:30:06):
joint and I was really, you know, stoned, you know,
more than usual kind of thing. And I remember sitting
there thinking, I gotta go lay down, you know, and
I was just kind of felt like whatever the stuff was,
it was you ungodly and right now, not for years,
but this was back in the day. But anyway, I

(01:30:27):
left and I kind of got my key in my
door and I'm thinking, man, I not really with it.
And as I walked in, I always used to leave
my TV on, and that skit was in progress on
the TV, and I'm like, walked in, I'm going I
know that guy. And it took me a second. I thought,

(01:30:48):
I think I'm really having a psychotic breakdown here. Wait.
How nerdy are we to not even mentioned weed it
all to Adobie Brother in this nine minute interview. I
didn't want to, and I think Steve was scared because
it was just I was going because you talk about it, well,

(01:31:09):
I read a number one growing industry and the United States. Yeah,
I was reading about your new record, which I really like.
I was checking it on the way over here, and
I was I mean, I listened to it one time
and I was like, okay, I mean it sounds like
Mike Ldonbads never read an interview talking about how a
lot of songs are kind of about your sobriety, and
that just made me hear it in a different way.

(01:31:31):
How long have you been sober? It's been thirty one years.
And it was a good idea for me, of all
the people I know, and that's sober from from all
yeah everything, Yeah, I drinking or smoking or nothing, nothing sober,
Dubie brother. I needed to do that. But yeah, it's

(01:31:55):
you know, it's the best thing I ever decision I
ever made, you know. I mean obviously it's I don't
think I would be here, to be quite honest. That
became increasingly more obvious to me as time went on
and I realized that I didn't have that much further
to go down that road, you know, And so there
were low points. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, a good swath
of low point you know. But you know, uh, I'm

(01:32:19):
one of the lucky ones, you know. That's that's the
moral of that story. Yeah, And there's not you know,
the odds, you know, the sobriety apparently aren't that good.
But it's it's, uh, you know, there is a solution
out there for people who need it, and and God willing,
you know, you find that, you know, because for me,

(01:32:42):
the alternative would have been the bad alternative, you know.
You know what was just solution how we be able
to stay so just one day at a time, you know,
I just uh, really surrendering to the truth of it,
you know. I think the big, the great obsession for
for most people who addicted is that I got this.

(01:33:05):
I can handle that. I can I can fix this,
you know, I can, you know. And it's unfortunately for
most of us who suffer from addiction, there's not enough
willpower in the universe that we could muster to to
fix it once we're there, you know. And so there
are there are solutions that come in the form of

(01:33:30):
the community of people who are who you know, are
suffering from the same disease, and that and that's you know,
I can't really you know, speak beyond that because I'm
not an authority on it, you know, but I can
say that that That's what I would suggest anyone is
to find find people in sobriety that can share their experience,

(01:33:52):
strength and hope with you. You know, have you found
that being sober? Has it helped you preserve your voice
because you soundly? No, I that's that's you know that
would have probably died first, but I would have been
shortly thereafter, you know. Uh, No, it's uh, you know,
most everything worthwhile in my life today is a direct

(01:34:12):
result of sobriety. For me, um, probably none of it
is anything I would have put on that list if
you had given it to me, saying, well, if you
were able to, you know, stop using um, what would
what would you be hoping for? You know, most of
what is most important to me today are things I

(01:34:33):
would have never even thought of, you know, just the
simple things, the simple uh aspects of my life. It
just wouldn't have existed, you know, I would have never
got to that, you know part. Okay, we're gonna wind
up the show. But there's still like version there's well

(01:34:58):
you worked with the great rock Temperton. Oh what was
that like? He's one of the one of my music Yeah,
one of the best R and B writers that I know.
You know, heat Wave was one of the best groups
you know that I can think of it with a
book of songs that I You know, sometimes when you

(01:35:19):
play with the band and then you realize just how
many songs they actually had. That's happened to me many times.
You know. We we played with a w B. We
played with the heat Wave a couple of gigs and
it's like song after song and you go, oh my god,
I forgot. And Steely Dan also, you know when or
the Dubies, I almost forget how many how deep their

(01:35:39):
their songbook is, you know. Uh. And Heatwave was like that.
That was one of those groups where there were so
many songs. Uh. They were a British group, you know,
with these classic R and B songs, you know that
I thought were just American records. I had no idea
they were records made in London. You know, British can
do Americans better than you know. And Rod was a

(01:36:01):
great writer, a great producer, you know. Speak speaking of
you not being in the room at the same time.
I heard you also say that when you did on
my own, had to be in the same room that you. No, No,
you didn't even meet. I hadn't even met yet, said
I sang to her voice. No, I hadn't hadn't met
her yet, you know I met her weight. We performed

(01:36:24):
that song for the first time the day after we
met on the Tonight Show and what about ever change.
Wreatha was not there when I sang to her voice
for it was Bert and Carol producer, but o I

(01:36:46):
did perform it with her though. At the Grammys, I
love that song or any motherfucker's going to talk about
yamo be there, I asked him. One who was like
the informer I want to read it's alright, Yeah, I
got to actually do the video with her, yeah, yeah,
and talk about that the bulk of the video of
the Patty and he wasn't in the room whether there

(01:37:08):
I did. I did shoot the video with the wreath
in Detroit, but not with pat She was doing a
play in New York. Sure the box with got the
video together. The song is called on my own alright,
so yeah, yeah, I will be there the battle of

(01:37:30):
the Yeah, the battle Well wait, I'm actually more I'm
more impressive you name dropped James brother Philip than anything,
because he's one of my favorite singers. Switch yeah. But
with the process had the big yeah, the feather yea.
He was in there, but like, did Rod also do

(01:37:55):
that as well? Or yamo? Yeah, ro Rob was one
of the writers on Yamobi there that made that's all
made a big impression on my Christian household. That was Yeah,
it made a very big impression, especially you know the

(01:38:15):
division of secular and you know the local radio station
in Philly, w z z D used to play that
a lot. Yes, they would. Was it your intention to
make a gospel song? Or pretty much? I mean yeah,
and um we Uh it's funny because uh, that was

(01:38:37):
probably the third song we wrote that Quincy kept you know,
going and go back to the rejection. You guys need
to go back write something better, you know, And uh
so we we kept trying, you know, and uh, James
and I spent a lot of time in my studio
just kind of right at the did you fully flesh
out the other two songs that didn't make it? We
made demos on on them. Um did they wind up

(01:39:00):
being anything? No? No? Uh was a party animal? No, no, no,
it was It was one song I can't remember that.
It was like a better Man and uh actually was
kind We liked it. We thought it was We thought
this is gonna conch is gonna love this and it
was like a yeah, but damn but Yamo was the

(01:39:22):
song that he mentioned he caught his ear, you know,
and uh um we were just you know, uh, like
I said, he spent countless hours just sitting there. We
had a good time, you know, writing because he and
I it was always a good hang you know with James.
You know. Um, for those of us not familiar with

(01:39:42):
what the hell of yamo be there means no, no,
I'm asking, but it was your question. Yeah yeah, well yeah,
it's kind of in reference to God will be there.
You know. It's like, uh that that's the answer, you know.
Uh uh and yeah wait yea yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:40:06):
this isn't I feel like it was one of those
Michael McDonald's words because it's just easy to Okay, do
you get tired of people imitating you in front of
your face? I think that, you know, have you ever
met Anita Baker? Like has she? Yeah? Sure, short and
Petty Austin to express for you, but yeah, no, you know,

(01:40:29):
it's uh, I feel like Ed Sullivan, you know, every
really big shoe. But did they do it inconvenient moments
like when you're like trying to sleep in the on
the airplane and you know things like that, or some
some guy'll stagger out of a bar and grab me
on the street started to start SINGINGLF we did that
was the baby face and I was highly you had

(01:40:52):
to go down. Seriously, I have no real I have
a band. I have a band called the Foreign Exchange,
and we're seriously considered doing a night where we perform
our songs in your voice and call ourselves the for McDonald's. Yeah,
and like all of us come out with beards like
we all even the girls like to scary, but I'm

(01:41:17):
for it. Was there a moment when you realize, because
I know we always talk about like blue eyed soul
and whatnot, But was there a moment when you realize,
like I'm in an elite type club of I can
go here, there, do the air and everywhere when it
comes to you know, soul music and pop music and
whatever else you chose to do. But at least you know,
like you know, it's very few things that have like

(01:41:39):
the black community in their pocket. Yeah, you like be
want to steal you away. We'll take you in the trade.
You know, it's um. You know for me to me,
it's it's that American, the truly American uh music, you know,

(01:42:03):
and uh, I don't know that there really is any
other besides jazz, you know, any other really truly American music.
You know. It's funny how so much of our culture
is uh uh for the problems that this country seems
to suffer from in terms of racial tensions. And uh.

(01:42:23):
It always reminds me the conversations my wife and I
have when she says, you know, we haven't talked in months,
and you know, I'm worried about us, you know, and
I say something brilliant like, well, you know, you know
I have to go cut the grass right now, So
why are you bringing I think I feel like I

(01:42:44):
didn't grasp you know. It's like that's how we talk
to each other in this society, you know, rather than
because we don't. It's uncomfortable and we don't want to
talk about it, you know, when really that would solve everything,
you know, Uh, if we really truly just talked about it.
You know. Uh, there are a few that can lead
a conversation like you can, because like I said, you
are loved by everybody. Well, you know, I thank you.

(01:43:07):
That's very sweety to say, I, you know, you have
to talk to my wife on that one. That's true,
but you know it's um for me. I I've often thought,
you know, how much of our culture are from in
food and fashion, certainly music and any real form of
art in this country is largely African American influenced. You know,

(01:43:30):
that is uh, one of the biggest influences on American culture.
There is, you know, more than anything. You know, if
you think of French food, you categorize it automatically as
French food or Italian food. You know, when you think of, uh,
what is largely African American influenced food, It's American, it's barbecue,
it's it's uh, you know, just forget the root right exactly,

(01:43:54):
you know, I mean, it's we accept it as totally
as American. You know. Uh, hopefully in our lifetime we
will see a country where we understand who we are.
We go forward. Then we got to stop the episode.

(01:44:15):
Oh no, um, just how is that? Because they were
like making fun of you in the movie. But it was,
I mean, it was funny, but that kind of you
were Yeah, no, no, it was it was My friend
actually worked on that film. Is that he was the
music guy on that film, and he would send me,
uh like dailies or whatever scripts, you know, and it
rewrites that he goes this, okay, and some of the

(01:44:38):
stuff they didn't put in it. It was hilarious but brutal,
but hilarious, you know. And uh and so in the
end it was really like the the nicer version of all.
But it was. I thought it was hilarious, you know.
And of course, you know, again, my kids always enjoyed that,
you know, they enjoyed rubbing my nose and anything like that,
you know, the family guy whatever. You know. Okay, this

(01:45:00):
this is my last cauation. I know you Okay, what
were your thoughts on Michael Bolton because I thought he
was kind of trying to I thought he was kind
of trying to a little bit. No, No, I'll love
Michael boat. Whatever is only one. Yeah, we recognize. So
what does want to do? This show? I think you

(01:45:22):
should do. I don't want to have it more, but
I think he's I mean, okay. The first time I
I did a gig with Michael Bolton was a local
thing in Santa Barbara and Kenny Kenny's charity that we
would all do and uh, Kenny Logan said to me,
because this cat is serious, you know he is he

(01:45:42):
is uh. He sings like we wish we could sing.
And I writes from the school of Ray. But who
who are you know? I mean, he's he's he's trying
to channel Ray. Who is there anyone that you're trying
to channel? The closest I can think of maybe Sarah
Boon like who ah, you know, because you do have

(01:46:08):
an original voice that I can't trace. The genesis thanks,
you know. For me, really, it's just, um, I try
to do the best with what I got, you know
what I mean. That's that's really what it comes down to.
I I uh, I've always I've never really uh had
the confidence as a singer per se as far as

(01:46:30):
chops and you know technique, you know that let's get
to the thunder No no, no, I mean serious, I
I uh. And as I get older, especially, I think
you know, you got to kind of follow your voice
with the years. You know, you kind of you know, what,

(01:46:50):
what's the what's my strength at this point? You know,
and you kind of kind of go with that. I
but all those singers that you mentioned are all part
of my psyche, you know, growing up, and you know,
I I think when the Motown record was presented to me,
my first thought was, why are they asking me to
do this? You know, they came to you to do

(01:47:11):
the cover. But I remember the next thought was you
better say yes, You'll be sorry. And and secondly, I thought,
you know, I have sung these songs in bars for
so many years, doing my best to emulate Marvin Gay
or David Ruffin or whoever, trying to kind of, you know, uh,

(01:47:33):
grab the spirit of their vocal, you know, because that
was the whole thing about being a bar band, if
you could sound like the record, you know, so growing
up doing that, I thought I should be able to
kind of bring something to this project that just reliving
my own experiences of first learning those songs and learning

(01:47:53):
to sing when I was you know, much younger, you know,
oh man, before we before it. While you for the
others that record, I want to hear those guys play
here in Manhattan. And it was amazing, you know. They
were a really interesting band, you know, had an incredible following,
you know. Uh, and uh it was I had already

(01:48:15):
done the record with him, and I really wasn't that
aware of their overall society, but the sharing him live.
I was really impressed. What made you do the record man?
That you weren't that familiar with them? Um? Like, what
makes Michael McDonald say yes the song? Had? They had
approached me through management, and when they played the song
for me, I just like, it just appealed to me
that he had a you know, um, a musicality about

(01:48:37):
it that I wanted to be a part of, you know,
and I wanted to kind of lend myself to if
if possible. And the fact that it was singing backgrounds
um where I might have shied away from it as
a piano player or something, you know, figuring out I
wouldn't know what to play or whatever. But as a vocalist,
they had probably they had pretty much spelled out what
they wanted me to do, and so I was as

(01:49:01):
kind of curious as they were about how I would
sound on it, you know. And so were you throwing
up with Thundercat's call? That was one hearing that Nobody's
all coming Yeah? No, Uh, that was Kenny. I have
to get Kenny credit on that, because both he and
my kids are huge fans of Steve's you know, and

(01:49:23):
they love Thundercat and uh, when he did that interview
and he mentioned Kenny and I, Kenny's son called him
and said, you know, dad, you know Thundercat mentioned you
in an interview is an influence. And Kenny got right
on that. And you know, contacted. As long as an
artist has an animal name and sounds cool, yeah, you
do nothing. You know. My daughter is my great source

(01:49:48):
of what's going on today. She plays me, you know,
we take car trips. And she went to Coachella with
me when I played with Thundercat there and and it
was a whole weekend of listening to music with her,
which I love. I really enjoyed. You know, you made
her life. I'm sure she kept me up late to that.
We were there till the week hours. And you know,
in bands, I'm sorry, but you and Kenny's kids in bands. Uh,

(01:50:11):
well his son was a singer. My son's and at
in a band, and that my daughter doesn't do it.
She's but she's got a beautiful voice, but she doesn't
want to sing professionally, you know, But but she loves music.
She's a big music fan. And he told me that
because I thought that we were just going to have
to explain who we were, Like, Okay, so we're banned
from Phillyda and you're like, yeah, I know you guys.

(01:50:33):
Oh yeah, I know we were thrown off. But through her,
I've I've actually become more increasingly aware of what's going
on around me. But that's awesome. Uh I I get it.
I got the part, be their part. What's who is

(01:50:55):
mo Austin Boston. That's the perfect intent of the show.
Michael McDonald, We thank you for coming, Thanks for having
this dream become Dren, Thank you man for real. Shout
out to my sister Dawn for put me onto Michael McDonald.

(01:51:16):
She would kill me if I didn't mention that fact
of the world that that's how I'll discover to you
anyway on behalf of Boss Bill and pay Bill Fontagelo,
Sugar Steve and It's Layah and the great Michael McDonald.
This is quest Low Sliding Off Mexico. Thank What's Love,
Suprene is a production of My Heart Radio. This classic

(01:51:38):
episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more
podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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