Black Music Month QLS Classic: Otis Williams

As Questlove Supreme dedicates a month-long celebration to Black Music Month, Dr. Otis Williams represents the epitome of Black Music. In this 2018 interview, the legendary baritone singer, a founding member of The Temptations, Otis Williams, discusses the evolution of the Motown sound and label, the band's dynasty, and The Temps' album, All The Time.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic
episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
What up, y'all is Laiyah from Team Supreme. Okay, So
it's June, and you know it is Black Music Month. Now,
this month and its cause was started by my godmother,
Dianna Williams, the legendary Kenny Gamble, and the great and
right back in nineteen seventy nine after being invited to
the White House along with the Black Music Association. Now,
the Black Music Association was a group of black folks

(00:31):
that were the best of the best of the music industry.
I'm talking record execs, I'm talking radio people, I'm talking artists.
I'm talking to everybody from Clarence Avon and Frankie Crocker
to Percy Sutton, everybody in the middle right. So they
all get invited to this big party on the White
House lawn June seventh, nineteen seventy nine. And before the
performances started, President Carter said many things addressing and reminding

(00:53):
people of the importance of Black Music Month, and one
of the things he said was end quote in many ways,
the feeling of our own black citizens throughout the history
of our country has been accurately expressed in the music,
and it presents a kind of history of our nation
when you go back and see the evolution of black
music word. So, we've spoken a lot about Black Music

(01:14):
Month on Questlove Supreme, and this June we are running
a different episode from the QLs archives every single day
in the name, spirit and cause of Black Music Month.
Here is the one and only Otis Williams as you
have never heard him from the Temptations.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a special Quest Love Supreme.
I'm your host Quest Love Jenkins, and with me today
is Boss Phil, Sugar Steve and it's li Eah Team Supreme.
Today we are celebrating a legacy. For the past six decades.
Yes was the glue that held together one of the
most tightest elegant music dynasties in the history of modern

(02:06):
Western music. Their brand, a sophisticated pop and soul with
such gems as my Girl, the way you Do Things
you do in at Proud to Big just the name
of a few was just as crucial to the Civil
Rights era as lived every voice to sing.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
There isn't a vocal group or band act of today
or in the past, who has not been influenced by them,
from their macline vocal harmony structure, to their choreography, to
their outfits, to their songs of love that have stood
the test of.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Time, to their political anthems. Just as relevant twenty eighteen
as it was in nineteen sixty eight, music would not
be what it is today without the Temptations, and the
Temptations would not be the everlasting institution it is without
the one and only heartbeat of the Temptations. Lady and gentleman,
please welcome our guests, Sir Otus Williams to quest of.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
Thank you, rattle that off real good.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
You know, I'm gonna do something a little different than
I normally do on the show. Well, I want to
ask you. Normally I want to go back to the beginning,
but I want to ask you what keeps you going well?

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Of couse, on the real side, it's love. What I do.
You know, when you stop and think about this world
that we live in, and now all the people that
inhabit this world, it's a small microcosm of us that
are getting that to get a chance to do what
we'd like to do for a long time, you know,
and God has blessed me to be able to ride
the hell off the horse. So I'm enjoying this yere.
You know, it's a labor of love. And when you

(03:44):
can bring happiness to the world over in by way
of music, you know, music have been able to do
some things that politicians haven't been able to do. So
I love what I do and I'm thankful to God
for you know, still being able to do it the
fifty eight years.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, that's impressive as as someone that's at the epicenter
of a group of people and not controlling them per se.
But I know the headaches, the daily headaches that it
takes to manage different band attitudes and whatever it be

(04:28):
it uh you're trying to put it. I'm just saying
that I admire you so much. And you know, I've
read I've read your book when when I was like seventeen,
your your your autobiography that came out, and like, like,
I know that being the glue of an institution is
one of the hardest things. Like where you wake up

(04:50):
daily or weekly trying to figure out what can I
get through this day without sure drama? And you know,
I know that you've gone through like members of the
group and yeah, arguments like yeah, all that is it?
Is it worth it that? That's really my my my question.
Is it worth it that?

Speaker 4 (05:08):
Well? You know, look, I look at it. First of all,
you're dealing with people. When you understand that you're dealing
with people, then you have to really understand that a
lot of you know, things come along with that, and uh,
it's worth it, you know because when we're on stage
and we here and see people with tears in their eyes.

(05:29):
And I'm not talking about ladies, I'm talking about grown men,
you know. And we were on one night a few
weeks ago and my robe bandager said, Dougie, his name
is Dougie, we called him Douge. He said, oh, you
have got to see this little three year old boy
playing with his car and he said, do do do
do do do dud Uh he's three years old. So
when you see from three years old all the way

(05:50):
up to almost one hundred, it's worth it. You know.
You just have to put up with, uh, you know,
the shenanigans and the moods and the what have you
with people, you know, but God has helped me to
make it through. They said Barry Gordy and a lot
of the heavyweights at Motown and thereabout have said, oh,
you are the glue that holds the Temptations together. And

(06:11):
I figured that day, if my shoulders are big enough
and strong enough to do it, then it's well worth
the wait, because when I'm at home and I walk
around my house and look at all of all the
things that I've achieved, it's worth there. You know, it
would be like me crying with a lot of bread
on the moms. So I really can't complain.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Okay, I gotta I gotta take that into accountant. Yeah,
I really like this guy.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
You would.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
So in the days of the Elgins, before you became
a temptation. First of all, how did you guys? What
was the transformation from the Elgins to the Temptations.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Well, even before the Elegins, my group was called ODIs Williams.
In the distance. We were with a little small they
were called Northern Records, and the lady that ran the label,
Johnny Maye Matthews, she recalled Listen. We had a nice
little regional hit called come On, and they did very well,
so much so that she sold the masters to Warwick Records,
and so one day she came from New York back

(07:11):
to Detroit and she just taking out all these hundred dollars.
You don't select them, these hundred dollar bills. And that
was about this, about seventeen eighteen years old, and she said, well,
you guys, your record's gonna be here all over America.
I sold into Warwick Records and now they can hear
it all over the world. And I said, oh that's good.
Did we get some roll with this further? Cause I
wrote the first uh, the regional hit. And she looked

(07:33):
at me with the jaunt's eye. She said, you ain't
getting none of this money. This is my money. Now.
We were doing record hops backgun those days, and record
hops is well as you go around to the disc
jockeys record hops and so they can continue to play records.
So Smoking Smoking Miracle, Smoking Robinson and the Miracles were
very hot at the time, and mister Gordon was with them,

(07:54):
so we could see them from the stage. And as
they were coming in, we came and mister Gordon said,
I like your group, your record. If you should leave
where you are, come see me. And I did you know,
cause Johnny Mae had said we were gonna get any
of that money. So I called mister Gordon and he said,
come on over here, and UH see Mickey Stevens. It

(08:15):
was A and R man. So Johnny Mae kept the
name that uh ODIs Swilliams in the distance. So I guess,
being young and whatever, I said, well keep the name.
We young, We'll start all over again. So when we
got over to uh Motown, we stood out in front
of a building called uh the uh Legal Department of Motown,
and a guy name was Bill Mitchell. He said, so,

(08:35):
what are we gonna call you guys? And we stood
there and we stood there. He said, what about the temptation?
I said, I like that. And at the time, David
Ruffing wasn't in the group, but Al Bryant, Eddie Kendricks,
Paul Williams, and Melvin Franklin myself, uh we were the
no name group at the time. So I said, I
like that, and I asked Paul, I'd rather I asked

(08:56):
all the guys, but Paul Williams said oldis a name
is whatever we make it. So temptations. So Bill hollered
back up to legal department put on the contract to temptations.
And so in nineteen sixty one. All the way up
till now we have been known as the Temptation.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
The movie totally got that wrong. They over dramatized the
whole thing.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
They said, y'all was sitting outside for like eight hours
trying to figure out outside of Hitsville, and then you
come in and then mister Gordy says, well, what's your name?

Speaker 5 (09:22):
Because I can't have.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Y'all be whatever y'all said y'all was, and y'all but
like we got to make it sexy.

Speaker 5 (09:26):
Yeah, yeah, they're deire dramatized.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
You know what I learned when I say, because I'm
being honest with you, I have yet to sit and
watch that mini series.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Seriously, right, I understand that, but I'm just worried because
now they just they show it so much.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
Oh yeah, Well, what I learned a little bit that
I saw the scene where as Melvin Franklin and myself
had to go to the David Refference apartment. Now, the
guy that played me what is this named Charles Malik D. B.
Woodside who played Melvin and naturally the Leon. So I'm
standing in the shadows in the way they're getting the
lighting and everything all fixed up. So Allen Archis, the

(10:04):
director said, all right, action camera.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
I rolled them.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
The girl came up with the class well BAP and
the two brothers that played me. One of myself knocked
on the door and leone opened the door. And when
they started to deliver their lives, I said, oh no,
I can't watch this. Now. We're talking about the year
in nineteen ninety eight, but when that incident happened, it
was nineteen sixty six, so it lets you know that
there was still a lot of stuff done underneath. So

(10:28):
one day we're in New York where my players getting
ready to open up, I mean in DC at the
Kennedy Center, and Smoker heard that I hadn't seen the movie.
He said. He calls me, oh, oh, you mean you
haven't seen the movie. I said, now, Smoker, I don't
want to cry. You need to watch a movie. I said, well,
I'll get round to watch it. I said, well, let

(10:49):
me ask you something, Smoker. Have you watched it? Oh,
I'll watch it, I said, did you cry?

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (10:54):
I cried, So you need to get your box of
clean axes and sit down and watch it. I have
yet to watch it. But when I saw it up
in Berkeley. I sat there and the move I mean,
the play is very touching. It's gonna be seen that
you need to take a clean EXE.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
So wait, what's the difference, cause there's an actual there's
a play versus the shut Rushes, the mini series that
we saw.

Speaker 4 (11:14):
Well, the play is very touching. Yeah, in the sense
of you get another kind of feeling in person. Mm
and uh so as I'm sitting there watching it, the
people that's sitting around me, they would watch the play
and they would do like to.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
See 'em get a glance at you.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
Yeah, they wanna see if I'm crying and true enough
tears well enough in my eyes because there's a scene
whereas uh uh the white folks are shooting at us
down south and uh oh yeah, no, we went through
all that, you know, so uh yes, it's been very real.
But you know, I I'm very glad that, you know,
I was able to put it in paper. Now from

(11:51):
that to it'll start next month in DC and uh
it'll be there for five weeks and then they'll go
to LA and then from LA uh to Toronto and
then hopefully Broadway. And they're just waiting for the right
theater and the name of it is Ain't Too Proud?
The Life and Times of the Temptations.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah. I got to meet the people that produced that.
Hight I mean that wrote the screen.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah Detroit girl.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
She's yeah, it's it's it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
And do you at least do like have anything to
do with the casting, either the mini series or the
play for the person who plays you?

Speaker 5 (12:27):
Do you care?

Speaker 4 (12:28):
Do you well? At first I wanted Lead to play
me because Leo and I we're pretty close. You know.
When we got to greenlight that it was going to
be done on NBC, I told us, say, a man,
they're going to do the Temps life story. I would
love for you to play me. He said, oh, oh,
this man. You know you my man, I'd be glad
to play you. So the Temps we went to Paris.
That did one night or so. By the time we
came back from Paris, my manager Shelley said, well, got

(12:50):
the green light, we're gonna do it, and uh, but
I got to tell you good news and bad news.
I said, Okay, what's that let's say He said, well, Lee,
it's gonna be in the miniseries. That's all good. So
what's the band news. He's gonna play David Ruffing? What David?
I meant what Leon did while we were over in Paris.

(13:12):
Leon went at the past that we used to wear
back then and called the content on tight all the
way down. He went and got his hair, you know,
like David used to wear in the glasses.

Speaker 5 (13:21):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah. And when he walked into the casting with all
the powers to be that was sitting there Susane in
the passing them say you play David Ruffing. That's how
he got the role.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
It's weird that you haven't seen it because one of
the most iconic lines from it that's become an internet
meme is you know I've been getting that class everywhere.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah, but I said, yeah, but look at me now
I'm still here.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah. So when you guys started at motown's explain to
our listeners the idea of the charm school, Uh oh wow?
Going through Well, first of all, just the idea of
what was the idea behind wanting to present that and

(14:10):
and uh sophisticated sure look to America as a po
what was it before and why was that such a
revolutionary move?

Speaker 4 (14:18):
Well, I I think you know talent a lot of
times need to be cultivated. You know, you gonna have
all the talent in the world, but it's one thing
to know how to present yourself when you are, uh,
you know, really out on front Street. And I have
to give those accolades to uh. A lot of people
say Barry Gordon. No, I have to give a credit
to Harvey fu Kuah. Yeah, Harvey a few Quah was
from the Moonglows and he knew Charlie Adkins and so

(14:39):
in the process of Motown really becoming the iconic label
it is known for today, evidently h uh Harvey must
have met but Barry and said, you know, we need
to groom these uh talented kids, and so uh Barry
felt as though it would be a good idea, and
they opened up a uh artist development right across the
street from uh Hitsville. We had to be there when

(15:00):
uh it was time for us to rehearse from ten
in the morning toil five to six o'clock in the evening.
And it was headed by the late Great Charlie Atkins,
uh the late Great Maurice King who was our vocal coach,
and Charlie was our choreographer. Johnny Allen who would be
at the piano and you know, keeping us everything, uh
you know a theoretical musically uh correct and uh they

(15:21):
sat down and they would tell us how to really
carry ourselves. You know, it's one thing to have all
the talent in the world. But if that's one thing
I hate, and I'm always trying to be cognizant of it.
I hate for artists get on. Uh you know do
INVI well them now do dudes? And you know, don't
talk correctly. They said, you guys need to know how
to talk. You know, of course the world to be

(15:42):
watching you. And they told this thing like four things.
Maurice King said, don't get involved with you can never
tell nobody about how they spend their money, religion, Uh,
who they make love to? And it's the four when
night politics that I said, politics that so and We've

(16:03):
had that occasion to come up and I I'm so
glad that I had that kind of knowledge being taught
at Motown, you know. So. But they really, you know,
put a lot into us because they were grooming us
to go come to the Copa Cabana in the smart rooms.
So we would have to rehearse from ten in the
morning to six in the evening and it paid off
because you know, I look at a lot of the

(16:24):
earlier films and I can see where the proper presentation
and how to carry ourselves and how to present ourselves
in the sense of speaking interviews and what have you.
So it is one of the only company I believe
that will that they ever had, that that will never
ever be another Motown.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
So would you guys, I know that, at least in
the sixties, to play the Coopa was like the dream, Yes,
but similar to how Sam Cook would do it, Like
if you were playing the Black Venue, then he did
the sure enough get down, yeah, you know, sweat off
my brow right right right, rebel rousing show. But if

(17:05):
at the Copa, then shooting time. So would you guys
have dual shows depending on who the audience was. No,
so even Mellow Mood Temptations would play the Apollo to
that after.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
We open up at the Copa, because we hold all
the existing records at the Copa, we went to the
Apollo and we opened up with Hello, Young Lovers, I
really love yes.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
And it worked it yes, yes, So it was almost
like a job. Well, I saw Michael Jackson's I D card,
So you guys would have to have these ID cards
at Motown or or at Hitsville.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
Not really so they so they gave them out, but
you know, yeah, and then we they knew who we were.
You know, if we wanted to walk through whatever department does,
what's happening and temp y'all back in town? You know,
so it would was nowhere real who you Yeah? Right?

Speaker 1 (18:03):
So how many hours a day would you guys? Uh
RaSE verse? And how how did Charlie find that much
time to devote to each of the acts because he
was he literally was doing everyone from the sixties and
the seventies, Yeah, and coming up with these ideas like
what was his creative process too?

Speaker 4 (18:23):
You know? I tell you when I first became away
of Charlie's uh choreography, the Cadillacs and Detroit where they
came to Detroit. Man, Now you know Radio City is
the largest indoor theater in America. Fox did in Detroit
is the second to see five thousand people going crazy
over with five guys are going on the stage. And

(18:44):
I said, that's what I want to do. Now. I
was about sixteen years old. So one day I met
one of the cadillacts outside of the Fox, and I
asked him how did they do all that? Who told
him that? And he said, well, young brother, you know,
if you should ever want to do what we're doing,
look for a young man named Charlie Atkins. Nineteen sixty four,
we were at the Howard Theater were Gladys Knight and

(19:04):
a big act. I run out of acts and Charlie
was there and I said, oh my goodness, that's Charlie
Atkins and sat and talked with him, and he showed me.
I still remember the first move. He said, if I
had you guys, don't the way you do the things
you do, I'll show you what I would do. And
he got them, did move and opened his arms and
there I said, man, But Paul Williams was our choreographer

(19:24):
of the temps. But they would work it out systematically,
you know, for the hours they would have, like our
attempts you all would have from like one o'clock to four,
and then from four to five the supremes would come in,
you know. So they had it systematically worked out where
he would give all the acts that needed to come
into Motown for that sending amount of time to do it.

(19:47):
But we had to be there damn there every day.
I mean it was like being in school. So it
was worth Oh yeah, it worked.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
So touring with the with the Hitsville Review described to
our listeners the difference between below the Mason Dixon Line
touring down south as opposed to doing a show of
Los Angeles or or was it the same?

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Just no, no, it was different.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
So did you dread? Did you guys dread going down south?

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Not really, because we knew we had fans that wanted
to see us because our record was breaking out all
over the you know, America. But you can feel a
different kind of when chill factor when you got down
in certain parts of the South. Like I'm from Texas
and so we were on a Henry Wynn tour who

(20:39):
was the own of the Royal Peacock in Atlanta, Georgia,
so he would always have these big rock and roll shows.
So we got off the bus in Texas and we
wanted to eat, get something neat, And when we walked
into this restaurant, white guy said, oh, we don't serve
and he used the N word and we said we
don't eat him. You know, we had to find a

(21:05):
place that we could go and uh, you know that
would feed us. You know.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
So did you guys use that travel guide? Yeah, with
green book, Yeah, the Green book, the travel guy that
lets black artists and black travelers down south know what
restaurants are, say or what.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
Now, we never did. We just it was a different
kind of network, you know, because we would find out
where to go. There were people that, like say and
said in his book, that would house us as black artists,
you know, because a lot of hotels wouldn't take us,
you know, because we were black. So there were certain
homes and places down there that would, you know, let
us stay and feed us and what have you.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Plus you had you also had white people on the
bus as well. So if it was a case of
getting to go order of dissions without you guys having
to go in.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
Like not on our bus. Real all blackness really yeah?
Wow yeah, yep, Yeah, that's what we were saying.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
I needed a guide or something.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Yeah. Well we had the best guy in the world.

Speaker 5 (22:04):
God amen.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
He wrote us through all that.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
What was the what was the city the one city
or state that you dreaded going to, at least in
that period in the in the mid sixties early sixties.

Speaker 4 (22:15):
Wow, I don't get in trouble. But Mississippi was Mississippi.

Speaker 5 (22:18):
God damn that was here, y'all.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
I mean yeah, but uh, we were in Columbia, South Carolina,
nineteen sixty four and place was rocking. They had a
rope right down the center of the auditorium, Blacks on
one side, whites on the other. So we were singing

(22:42):
and saying, man, this ship ain't cool, you know, and
say Okay. We came back, same venue, same city next year.
That next year there was no rope, black and white
sitting side by side, booty banging, high fiving and having fun.
If it wasn't for the sweat that we were sweating,

(23:03):
you would have seen five guys on stage crying the
power of.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Music, were y'all?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Then after that moment, because they showed up in the
in the series too. But after that moment, did it change?

Speaker 5 (23:13):
Uh in the.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Sense of groupies as well, because it was it now
safe to have like groupies of all colors.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
Like did you see the difference in that?

Speaker 4 (23:22):
Well, what the group is back there?

Speaker 5 (23:24):
I mean, how did that work?

Speaker 4 (23:25):
Like when the uh, you have to be very cautious,
cautious do that? You know? Uh, we always pretty much
stayed within our color line, you know, because so we
knew how if you did that, like Chuck Berry said,
he did that, he hain't got no, we wasn't getting there.
No no, no, no no no. I am not going

(23:45):
to the gray Ball Hotel. You know, so.

Speaker 5 (23:50):
Nice Gray Bard damn.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
Oh, I love it. I've been told you you should
do an older sism because that's the way my head done.
Excuse me, what the hell is a ring? Hey, Shelley,
I'll call you back. It's my manager. I'll call you back.
Jail shall we still okay? Yeah, see you later, gone.

Speaker 5 (24:14):
See you later, taking.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Shall He's been the temptatious manager since the beginning correct,
nineteen sixty six. That's well, that's amazing.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
Yeah, he's getting ready to be eighty years old.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
And still going strong, still sharpens.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Yeah, yeah, he'll be uh at the play. He's coming
here because the stage temptations they are already rehearsing now okay,
and I just talked with a couple of them. So
he's coming in to sit and watch that and make
sure everything is going correct.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
It's amazing. So when you when you guys uh got
to the late sixties and was easing into your Psychedelic phase. Sure,
I guess it starts with the Cloud nine record. Well,
first of all, the addition of is that when Dennis
made his debut with the group.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah, yeah, uh, Cloud and Iron came about gambling. Huff
was a friend of mine. Him and I were talking
Warwick Hotel right up the road. So as him and
I were talking, uh, we heard this boom boom boom too,
So it stopped. We stopped and said, uh, who the
hell is that you know with that? Cause it was

(25:21):
so different. So we listened and the guy said I
was Sliding the Family Stone. So went back to Detroit.
Now Norman Woodfield had recorded Ain't too Proud to Bey,
Please Return your Love? I wish you would range. So
we were doing the ballots and what have you. So
when we came back to Detroit, Norman and I we
grew up together because he played tambourine on my first
hit with John Mae Matthews. So I asked you, Norman,

(25:43):
I said, Norman, have you heard this group called Slide
the Family Stone? And Norman was very cocky. No, man,
I ain't hurt. No damn Slide. I said, well you
should check them out, man, because they're doing something that
we should probably uh check out because we were letting
uh David go with the time so normal, no, no, none,
you know, he did all that A Wolf and the Ghetto.

(26:05):
So we went out of town, came back in. He
had recorded the track to Cloud nine. I said, oh, alright,
now he used it N word O man, let's go
ahead and record this year. And we went in and recorded.
Now we were spoiled because most cases when we would
record any of our records, like the Way You Do Things,
you do My Girl and what have you, or it
just run up the charts and just graw from R

(26:26):
and B right on to pop. So when they released
Cloud nine, uh, it was spooky, you know, because we
had gotten so used to having hits jump right on
the charts right away. So about a week and a half,
two weeks all but almost three we're gonna say, oh
my god, Yeah, I said, oh damn we did. We
didn't dropped on this one motown call. He said, well

(26:48):
they finally took off, you know. And I guess our
fans were saying, what the hell did the Temptations do?
This is so different cause we were just coming off
for hire to please return your love yeah, and uh
so you know, Skyrocket and we got the first Grammy
for the Tams in Motown and that was nineteen sixty eight,
and that was Dennis's first big hit with the Tams.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Time Out. Yes, Motown's first Grammy in nineteen sixty eight. Yes,
so they weren't the Grammys. Weren't that? I mean the
number one record?

Speaker 4 (27:20):
Like what the fuck? That's what you gotta figure it,
That's all right, gets old.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
You gotta figure out, like records like South Pacific and
the Mind of Bob Newheart was like number one, Like
those records were number one in the sixties, like the Beatles.
The Beatles don't have a Grammy. Yeah, I don't think that. Yeah,
the Beatles on Wow. So it's just like, yeah, early
seventies when like, yeah, semi inclusive, you know. Yeah, but yeah,

(27:50):
that's that's that is crazy to know that. But with Okay,
I'm glad you brought that up because I always wanted
to know one. Were you guys even aware or at
least Norman? I think it was more to Norman than
less to you guys. But were you guys even aware

(28:10):
of sly Stones kind of casual flip off on high
Fun the Summertime to you guys, oh.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
Somewhat yeah, like what did you guys?

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Do you guys know the story about it? Okay? So
Roses parts of Hot Fun and Summerstime was basically Sly like,
I we invented the breakdown, the boo boo breakdown and
you know, like just bucking a little shot. I never
knew that. But it was aimed at Norman. But did

(28:44):
he did he ever respond? Did he ever meet Sly
or do you know?

Speaker 4 (28:47):
Not that I know of, I don't know if he
ever met Baker. So no, I don't. He never mentioned
it to me.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Okay, Okay, Now I've always been curious about that because
I think Sly like finally revealed it, like maybe fifteen
years ago. But as far as h Norman Whitfield's productions
and the heavy militancy, militant message of the group far

(29:21):
away from wanting to be at the copa And you know,
how did you guys manage to convince Barry Gordy that
that's the direction of the group. Like a song like
Run Charlie Run, which speaks of white flight in the
most explicit terms possible, like how was how did Barry.

Speaker 4 (29:40):
Take that, you know what quest We were having so
many hit records with Norman that when we made the
transition from the Ballots and you know, straight up on
b on Win to Cloud nine, Norman told me one day,
he said, you know otis baringhim. Don't even bother us
anymore about quantity control. Because every Friday they would have

(30:02):
what they call call it the control everything that was
recorded during the week. They would sit down at the
end of the week and listen at and say, yeah, nay,
what a man, I think this needs to be a
little more heavy bassed and not too much too much
of that. You know, they do all that kind of critiquing,
and so Norman would be part of that. You know,
he would be in there because he was one of

(30:23):
the producers. But you know, we were having so many
hit records with the Norman and that they didn't never
bother us about whatever we would come up with. Because
when Norman came up with that song run Charlie, run, huh,
the niggas will come And I said, Norman, you got
to be kidding. Yeah, But that was Norman. He was
that kind of creative person outside of the box.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Were you guys at all confused about his like, I
know that he was trying to as a producer, present
the cinematic scope of you know, have a lot of
drama and his music, so songs like Masterpiece will let
six seven minutes go by before the vocals even start,
which which is unprecedented. I mean now it's standard standard,

(31:08):
but back then it was like I didn't even know
that Masterpiece had lyrics that like, I just assumed that
the whole thing was an instrumental.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
I'll tell you some questions. It's very interesting that you
should bring that up, because that was the song that
made me say, oh, we gotta leave Norman. One. We
were over in our straight on that Belgium, so they
sent me a breakdown of what was happening, excuse me,
and the article said that Norman would field singers. We

(31:39):
all of us, Wow, wait, the Norman would feel singers.
And it was about Masterpiece. Boy. I mean, I was
so damn mad I called and said what. So when
we got back to Detroit, I told Bear, I said,
we gotta let Norman go because when you listen at

(31:59):
me the piece, it's just only a little small segment
of us singing and everything else was all this said,
beautifully elongated strange horns and doom doom, doom doom all
that I know. Uh, Mary said yes, yeah, you're right
because we had such a great run with Norman. But
you know when they started calling us the Norman Whitfield singers,
I said, no, no, we didn't work all these years.

(32:21):
It's hard to lose our identity. Yeah, just that quick.
And but that's the song that made me call and
said we gotta go and Berry uh there again was
always there for Melvin and myself. And that was the
song that was the uh changing thing from us leaving
Norman after about eight or nine years of being with
Norman what hits?

Speaker 1 (32:40):
But what was his theory for making these songs thirteen
fourteen minutes.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Look well normal? Is? You know? He was very innovative.
He always wanted to be different from Smokey and uh
Holland Dosja Holland and u Astro and Simpson. So he
definitely always kind of after please Return your Love and
when we ventured over to uh Cloud nine, he always
started to think out of the box. So, like I said,
the Run Charlie Run and uh uh the Cloud Nines

(33:07):
and the Message from a Black Man that was just
his way of expressing, uh hisself, of wanting to be different,
and uh he just uh started thinking that way and
he we could not get him to come back to
the sweet Ballance. The only way we got him to
do just uh my uh just my imagination. Well, I said, Norman,
we out there, we hear what our found, our fans

(33:28):
want us to do. You got to come on and
get off of that side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. You
know to know Norman very cocky, very gootistical, wonderful friend
of mine. But you have to know how to deal
with Norman. So he recorded Just My Imagination and that
was the last record Eddie Kendricks did with us. And
I so uh saw us on Ed Sullivan and we

(33:49):
were singing just My Imagination, and I looked at it.
I said, boy, I wonder if the world can look
at uh our face and say, those guys don't look
to be too happy. Mm oh, next time you see it.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Of course they showed it the other night and we're
sitting there singing on a little box and you know,
looking just straight ahead, no emotion in your other than sadness,
and uh but you know that's the way it goes
sometimes when you're dealing with very uh talented people. I
was asking how.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Hard was it to to lose Eddie Kendricks as a
singer because his I mean with at least with uh
uh Dennis right and in his raspy baritone fitting but
Eddie's falsetto is such a.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
Smooth Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Was it hard to lose?

Speaker 4 (34:33):
And uh yeah, it was right. It was rough to
lose uh Eddie because he was such a such a talent,
you know, far as singing, and he's been no excuse me,
not that as one of the best tennis group wise.
Uh yeah, yeah, in the business, you know. But uh,
I'm often asked about otis when you need to find somebody,
what do you look for? I look for I don't

(34:56):
look for talent first, so see that's the look I
always would get. You don't what I look ahead and heart.
You can have all the talent in the world. Excuse me,
if your asshole of a person you're going to negate
the talent, that's it.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
I can vouch for that. Actually personally, I actually have
all the talent in the world.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
It's it's unfortunately but accurate.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
When you when you first of all, how how are
the the exits and enteres. I mean, I'm sure everyone
in their mind would like to think like everything was
amicable and you know, guys, I just get my one
month notice, Like how how how are they executed? And

(35:48):
how fast do you have to find? Like what was
the network? Like at least with the Internet, I can
go on in search and search I got a drummer instantly.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
Yeah, but no, it wasn't like that well for us.
We were at the Copa and at the time Paul
Williams then they said it was meming Frank with myself
and Eddie. Eddie and myself got into an argument. So
we were doing two shows at the Copa and we
stayed right around the corner, uh the sharing Netherlands. Uh,

(36:15):
So I went back to the hotel until uh it
was time to come back to do the second show.
We ended up doing the show with four. Eddie just said,
kissed the monkey on the boss spot, I'm gone and
we had to do the show at the Copa with four,
so it was no fellas. Uh after the show, I'm
gonna leave, Eddie said, yeah, I had to deal with

(36:36):
that kind of stuff. Oh, I mean I can go
down in my home that is a friend of mine
that did a beautiful portrait of twenty two different members. Uh,
I got to ask her to do oh yeah nice
twenty four whoa yeah, And I was standing in my
living room and look from al all the way up

(36:56):
until till now. But I got a add Willie and
Larry they.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Would be Was there ever a moment where you were like, okay,
just I can't lose melt Like. Was there a person
like I just can't lose Melvin, I just can't lose it.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
Just we Yeah, well I didn't want to lose mel.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
Well, right because in my mind, I'm like, who replaces Melvion?

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yeah, well, well you got lucky with Ray Davis, like
if someone had to replace Melvin. Right when I found
out that Ray Davis was replacement, I was like, oh
my god, that's that's like because he always wanted to
be to you know what I mean. So the fact
that you got him.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
It was a short lived thing with Ray because he
did for lovers only right, just one project, right, And
I would always send whomever would join the group to
the doctor. We said, you have to be checked out
because we have been told that we are athletes that
just sing, you know, because there are times were on
the stage. We have to be on stage for hour
and hair, you know, doing all that stuff you built

(37:54):
up be in good shape. So Ray went to our doctor.
So I always go and get mind your physical for
what we're doing. So doctor Heygary said, well, old said,
I got some bad news to tell you. You need
to look for another bass singer. I said, really, don
He said, he's not gonna be hit too long. Oh man,

(38:16):
cancer and our raid didn't smoke, it didn't smoke, and
true enough we had to let him go because of
health reasons. Wow. Yeah. But the guy that we have now,
Willy Green, and you know, people said you oldest have
found someone almost the equivalents of Melvin England. Yea, yeah,
Willie is a cold piece of work.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
You mentioned. You know, this whole thing is physical. You
have to go to the doctors. How do you ODIs
preserve your knees? I mean y'all performed on hard bottom shoes, yes,
for decades.

Speaker 4 (38:51):
Well this year, right, kne Now, I've had surgery on
both knees, you know, from years of dancing, you know,
and then rehearsing, you know.

Speaker 5 (38:58):
Cause can you wear sneakers? Well, now still the hard Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
Yeah, I can. Well pretty much. The only thing that
bother is like going up and coming downstairs. But other
than that, when it's time to hit the stage, kiss
the monkey on the balls, I'm there.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
So that's the ass right Wait, speaking of stage, Yeah,
who invented the Temptations microphone stand? You know what?

Speaker 4 (39:29):
I have to give credit to David Ruffin when they
were rehearsing us for the Coca Cabato and you know,
Charlie Atkins Nonfontaine. So we around rehearsing and we had
a moment just to sit and kick it. So David said, man,
you know, if we really wanted to be different, you
know what we should do. We should get a microphone
that with four heads on it and we can stand

(39:50):
around that. And so we just you know, kibbish and whatever.
And uh Lanefontaine, who was helping us, uh do uriciography.
Uh he said, oh, I know somebody can do that.
I said really, he said yeah. I said, well, we
drew up a thing with the pole and the fourheaded
mic nne knew somebody at the Star Trek back then,

(40:13):
somebody connected with Star Trek wow fixed the microphone up
for us and I gave it to the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame nineteen ninety one. And the reason
we stopped using it because it was unique for us
moving right there in that spot. But we wanted to
open up. We couldn't open up because the mic was
just right there, and you know, so after a while

(40:33):
we said, man, the mic is great and it has
more on off his novelty and what have you. So
we stopped using it and wanted to be spread out
all more on stage.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
I always wanted to know. When I was twenty something,
I had a particular light stand that was sort of
like a boom mic that had two lights on it, right,
but it would always fall over, and I always wondered
how sturdy that microphone stand was. Like if you if
one guy were to a and throw off the balance
of it, has that microphone and stand ever fallen over?

(41:04):
It never on.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
People did a great job of balancing it out with
the four hits on it, and they hit the support
system on the each mic that if I should move
my mind it would until the.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
Others star trek.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
That's yeah, that's uh yeah, okay, it must be sturdy.
I know that. In the mid seventies kind of a
little bit after the song for you House Party Area era.

(41:44):
You guys went to Atlantic. Mm hmmm, well I bear
it back. I forget that album before it, but.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
Between was the first album with Atlantic.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Look, but my question is, uh, how hard was it
to leave Moti Weave an institution like Motown? And I
know that, you know, the four Tops went to ABC
for a second and some artist, the Jackson's went to
C So everyone was sort of making it.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
I'll tell you something that's very and they didn't show
this in the over. We still had time on our contract,
you know. Barry said he got tired of running Motown
on a day to day basis. It was beginning to
weigh him down. So he started hiring like Abner who
used to be with VJ Records. Then Abnue left and

(42:37):
he had this guy named Barney Ellis that was running it.
So we had a meeting, uh with Barney Ellis, h
ral Selson, the attorney Shelley susaner Paz and attempts. So

(42:57):
mister Ellis, I guess he was pissed off because we
had the jackson in us had the same attorney aide
summons A noted entertainment attorney, and he had engineered a
hell of a contract for the Jackson's to sign with Epic.
And so when we had the meeting with mister Ellis,
it was a wind chi effect in the room. So

(43:19):
he said he took his list. B Am. Soon as
y'all get rid of mister Summers, the better things to
be for you guys around here. The room would hush.
I said, said, what soon as you get rid of
mister Summers, things to be a lot better for you
guys around here. I said, oh, no, we're not getting

(43:42):
rid of our attorneys because you guys got somebody people
around here that we don't like. But I bet you
won't find them because we don't like them. So he
pointed down at the end of the table to ralh Selston.
He said, if Abe Summons called, don't you answer his call?
I said, oh, Susanne said there Shelley sat there the group.

(44:03):
So I said, well, I guess that's the end of
the meeting. So we left. Marvin Gaye had to come
in and have the same meeting with this guy. Susie
I Ketta, who was our project manager. She called me.
She said, oldest Marvin just left the meeting. Cried, I said, well,
why do Barry have this guy running his axe off

(44:25):
like this? So Barry was in a La Costa on
vacation and he called me in and he said, oldis
I am so sorry that that went down? Uh, what
can we do to erectify it? I said, we want
to leave Barry silence on the phone. He said, well,

(44:48):
what kind of money can we get? I said, it's
not about money, it's about respect. Now we don't wanna
be here. So he was very sad in hear that.
He said, all right, we'll work it out and we'll
we'll get past this. And they worked it out. We
left Motown and signed with uh uh, we're almost signed

(45:09):
with CBS. But it was predicated on gambling hoof presenting
uh producing us but yeah, whoa yeah, Now, well Kenny
and I go back to doing the early sixties. Yeah yeah,
oh yeah, I mean cause CBS was getting ready to
get up out for a ton of money for us,
you know. But Kenny told me, he said, oh this
after I do the Jackson's cause he did, uh the Jackson,

(45:31):
enjoy yourself, He said, no, I wanna concentrate on my
own acts. He said, yeah, you know, I've always wanted
to produced attempts, but uh, I'm just gonna concentrate on
my axe. And I said, I'll be damn. I said, well, Kenny,
I can't argue with you because if if this is
what you wanna do, yeah, you gotta do what you
have to do. And so Jerry Greenberg, who was the

(45:53):
president of Atlantic Records, made a a wonderful offer, and
so Ape Summons worked it out, and so we went
to Atlantic Records.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
But then you guys have messed with I'm at urgan
at all, Like I mean, was he oh, well, you
know it was glad that Okay, so it wasn't hands
on and.

Speaker 4 (46:09):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, he really wanted to snap. But
Jerry Greenbery was the president of BAT at the time.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
So you're saying the leadership of Motown in the mid
seventies sort of caused sourness something.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
Yeah, yeah, truth be told, shame the Devil.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah, wow, I'm learning all these.

Speaker 5 (46:26):
Truth the Devil a monkey on.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, I'm learning.

Speaker 5 (46:30):
All I'm glad to know because I was. It's funny.
I was in watching that series.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I was like, so it's always been Sunshine and Roses
with mister Gordy and the temptation that just was an
odd well, you.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Know for mister Gordon and us. Yeah, we've we pretty
much always haven't had a wonderful long yeah, no relationship
even today.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
And even in that part where you know you and
they introduced Shelley. It's an interesting practice back then and
I don't think, I guess it's not his practice now
in the music industry where he introduced you guys to
your manager right back then, right back then.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
At the beginning esther Gordy Barry's oldest sister was our manager.
But I feel I guess he felt, yeah.

Speaker 6 (47:08):
He was all up in mister yeah my family, Yeah yeah,
yeah yeah, but uh, I guess he felt as though
he needed somebody that they could get us on their
Sullivan's show when exposed us to Yeah, because he got
us away from ABC Records and we signed with William
Morris and that was a big bullhur behind us leaving

(47:30):
ABC because she let well, like I said it.

Speaker 4 (47:34):
With some things that went down then. I won't go
into too deep, but I've had a very interesting career settle.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
You guys return in eighty with uh power power Yeah right,
and he so he he Barry Gordy produced that himself.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
For yes, he did. Barry sat on Power because we
were at Atlantic and elvan de Barge. Excuse me, was
the the bars were still there and uh he said,
I knew you guys was coming back. I said, really,
Bear he said, oh yeah, he said, I know. It
was just amount of time, he said. I had worked
there on this song Power, he said, but I did

(48:14):
not have a group over here that could pull it off,
like I knew the tenth Wood because he loved Melvin's power,
that base. He loved Melvin's base.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah, that's seven minutes in a row man, that's right, right, Okay,
how many tastes did that? Like? Was that a lot
of cutting and face thing or he just just straight
straight through? Wow?

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Straight through?

Speaker 1 (48:38):
That's hard. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
Yeah, he got behind that might close his eyes and
he would bowl his fists and he was there just
like a metronome right in that pocket. And uh, Barris,
I knew you guys were coming back, And uh we
did Power two hundred thousand immediately right out the gate.
It was a riot down in Florida. The stations across

(49:05):
the country got off of it bigcause they didn't want
the lyrics that were so powerful in power.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Yeah, they didn't want to incense it to go any further.
And we were hot, you know, broken because the record
was moving, it was going, but that incident down in
Florida made made the dis job gets back up off
of it because you know it was tenuous times even
at that time.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
So was it your idea?

Speaker 4 (49:31):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I guess in eighty two, and I guess to commemorate
the by that point, I don't know if it was
twenty years or thirty, I don't know how long. When
did you guys? You guys officially started in sixty or
sixty two?

Speaker 4 (49:44):
What motown?

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Sixty one. I have a contract in my home that
my mother signed.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Okay sixty one, So okay, so eighty two when the
reunion alum happens, that's to commemorate the twentieth Whose idea
was it?

Speaker 4 (49:59):
To broker the our fan base? I have a saying
that I have since uh and been saying quite often
a few people around me and say, oldest, I see
what you mean when you said the world loves us,
but we did not love ourself. We would let matter

(50:21):
what shouldn't matter, drugs. I mean, I'm just under the
way it is drugs.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
So it was. The reunion was sort of bittersweet. Yeah
when if you guys tour behind that record or yes,
yeah standing on the top. Yeah, we returned. Our first
date was in Detroit, Michigan, at the Fisher Theater. David
Ruffin came and he said, oldest, I promise you, I

(50:50):
won't be doing all that crazy shit that I was
doing before. I just want to get back in the group.
I promise you I'm straight. Because for the I was
the last man the whole lot, because I was saying,
come on, bruh, let's do this yere. You know the
fans want you were the last old day. I felt
like it was your idea, like back.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
Here, cause I knew what they were doing, even when
I had my my own set of temptations. Okay, yeah,
cause I would see here there from time to time,
and Paul he was already gone because Paul had passed,
uh what seventy and seventy one? That about. But I
knew what David was doing, I knew what Eddie was doing.
And you know, and I I'm not sitting here denigrating

(51:27):
these guys, cause I love him still. But you know,
like I said, tell the truth, shame the devil. So
even Kenny Gamma. We went to Philly and Kenny has
always wanted to produce the TEMs, and uh Jimmy Bishop
was the spearhead of trying to get it together. But
I guess for whatever reason, Jimmy Bishop bowed out.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Wow, Jimmy Bishop, that's like legendary name and uh the
Philadelphia r Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:50):
So uh anyway, we uh persevered and uh I said, alright, Melvin,
let's do this. So we got together and we started
arson and we got a very good show together. First day.
Well we're broken in down and uh place in Texas
to you know, the customary thing for us go off

(52:12):
and break the act in off the beaten paths, so
when we get on the shown of how visible road,
we'd be tight. So when we cat got to Detroit
Fisher Theater, people wrapped around the building and like I said,
I'm not trying to integrate anybody. But time we got there,

(52:33):
Ruffing was roughing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Do you think that was a fear of his? Like
what do you what's your assessment of not being able
to let those demons demons go. I've at least in
my particular field. I know that cats that that all
they have to do is just step up to the

(52:58):
plate and do what they gotta do. And but he
had a.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
Crazy he's right, Yeah, yeah, it was kind of.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
But I always just wondered, like him not being able
to get it together. I mean, obviously that stems from
a fear. I don't know if that's survivor's guilt. I
don't know if that's you know, like.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
Of course, you know how everybody can handle success. Success
can be a strong athe for Djak, you know, And
it's all I mean on the real set. There have
been so many different parties for us throughout our career
that we were in Detroit and I had to go
off to myself and pinch myself. So I don't believe
this year shit is really happening. I mean, all kind

(53:42):
of doors was opening up to us. I mean all
kinds of adulation, you know, women, you know, all kinds
of things. You know that if you're not strong from within,
oh yeah, it can go yeah, you know so, but
we all handle success differently.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
But you also you always you mentioned like your mom
signed your first contract.

Speaker 5 (54:00):
He had a foundation.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, and I know briefly in the series they mentioned
like David he said, he was like raised by a
pimp and like he had all so in that foundation,
and a lot of y'all had some good like even Melvin
you can tell had like the foundation.

Speaker 5 (54:14):
His mother was yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
But the Ruffian did.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (54:18):
He had had a very sordid life, you know, in
the sense of uh yeah, uh little They called him
at first little David Bush yeah, because he was er
uh living with this guy named uh Eddie Bush, and
so he took David under his arm wings and called
him a little David Bush. And David had about six
or seven singles before uh he joined the Thames and uh.

(54:42):
I would see him at various record houses. And the
brother was a cold piece of work, though I mean
in the good sense. I mean David Ruffings throw that
microphone up, spin around, dropped to his knees, and as
the microphone came was coming down, he'd grab it and
going into his act. So one day he said, oh this,
I wanna sing with your group. And I was surprised
cause I said, wait, wait, say back that train up,

(55:02):
say it again, and he said, I wanna say it
with your group. I said, boy, if you were to
join us, we'd really be something else certain and he
knew that we had a very strong reputation in Detroit
as far as the group and doing what we do.
And uh, so he joined the group in nineteen well
sixty three when he started hanging with us. So it
was six you know at the time. Because their Eddie, Paul, Melvin, Uh,

(55:27):
David and and no Al and then David and we
used to close the show would shout and uh, we're
at this place called Chapis Lounge. And as we closed,
they kept calling with us to come back. So we
went back two more times and the third time, Uh

(55:47):
they kept calling and uh, Al said, Man, we gotta
go back. They keep calling us. So Paul said, man,
what we gonna do. We can't keep going back there
closing with shout. We've done it two times, you know,
we gotta let it go. Al was drained and uh
when Paul said no, we can't go back, Al said,
and malf I'll hit you with this ball, right. And

(56:11):
I was the only one that could could listen that
I Al would listen to. I was just a little
bit off time because when I I could read Al's eyes,
his eyes eyes would get that kind of focused thing,
I said, And by the time I tried to grab
his arm right across Paul's note. I came out the
club and leaned up against the door, came out of

(56:33):
the dressingroom leaning up against the door, and Eddie, Melvin
and Davis never was wrong, was wrong. They saw the
look that I had on my face. I said, Al
just opened up Paul's face. But check this out. Took
Paul to the hospital. I said, well, you had to
let Al go. I mean, Paul, were gonna have to
let Al go. And no, no, don't don't do that.

(56:54):
I feel we got we getting ready to make it.
So I'm not gonna have that kind of fighting. And
I said, we can have disagreements. I just thought his
eyes was gone cause he hit him. Until the day
Paul died, he had a scar right across the bridge's nose.
M So we were at the Fox, and you know,
like I said, Paul was the one that started us
to be noted piocography. So Paul and Melbourne did this

(57:16):
in moved where they would jump down and do the
see boo the place that the Fox went crazy. So
I said, hey, hell, come on, man, let's get a
piece of action and all said, now, no, we're gonna
stay back here with the pretty boys. And that's when
I said, gotta let him go. Yep, gotta let him go.
And when he came off, I said, you gotta go.
Man entered David Ruffin and that's when the how the tempts,

(57:39):
you know, the noted tempts became, Uh well, we are.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Was there any interaction with uh EX members while they
were on their solo ten years, like did you guys
feel like a certain way about keep on trucking or
or any of David ruff and stuff in the soul
period or even oh.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
Well, I was happy to see that David and Eddie
were able to still do you know, because very talented guys.
Now My Whole World Ended? That was originally written for
the Thames, okay, but Norman Whitfield, not Norman uh Harvey
Fuqaha and Johnny Bristol. They could never get it to
us because Norman Whitfield was a string of hits, stringer hits.

(58:24):
So when David left, they put it on David. And
that's the originals that's doing the background on My Whole
World Ended? And uh well, Eddie, you know I knew
Eddie would always be successful because he was such a
unique uh talent saying wise, So Frank Wilson when he
did tr uh keep on truck in and book it down,

(58:44):
you know Edie was very, very uh success successful.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Who in in your career as far as production is concerned,
You guys worked with everyone from uh the Corporation to
Normal Whitfield to Rick Change, Rick James il McKay, Yeah,
Wind the Fire and all his cats, even what Benny
Madeena even worked on the Reunion record. You ever seen
his name there?

Speaker 5 (59:09):
Who?

Speaker 1 (59:11):
What is your what is your preferred? Not effective as
far as who brought us the most hits? But who
was your favorite producer to work with? As far as
like who really understood the group? Who was pleasant to
work with?

Speaker 4 (59:24):
I would have to say Smoke it first, Okay, Smoking
being group singer. Smoking was always organized when he would
bring us whatever song, the way you do the things
you do my girls, since I lost my baby, he
left the background harmonies up to us. He would show
us the basic part of the song. But Smoking was
always organized, easy to you know, work for record because

(59:48):
when we did My Girl, how that came about? He
came and saw us at the twenty grand, a noted
club in Detroit, and after the show he came back.
He was marveling on how great we were, and he
looked at us and and then he looked at David.
He said, I have a song for you and show
us being young dum full of you know what, and
he said, man, bring it on. We can sing anything.

(01:00:10):
And we came here to the Pollow and we uh
smoking him oh headline. We were co stars and field
access on that. So in between the shows we would
uh rehearse with Smoking and went back to Detroit after
rehearsing with him for My Girl, and he put the
background and the leason, and when Paul Riser came and

(01:00:32):
added the strings and horns, Smoker was sitting at the console,
you know, working the the boys, and uh, I said, Smoking,
I don't know how big a record this is gonna become,
but I think we got one on our hands. The
record was recorded that fall of sixty four. They released
it December twenty eighth, uh nineteen sixty four. We were

(01:00:55):
at the Apollo February nineteen sixty five. Barry sent us
at congratulating us. It's number one sold over me and Records.
The Beatles sent us a telegram congratulating us, and I
still have those uh telegrams at home now. But I
always think back then, I said, I knew this song
was gonna be something. I knew the song was good
if at the you know, with the essence of us.

(01:01:17):
But when Paul Riser added the stringer and the horns,
it gave it a whole nother daylight and true enough,
when we do that song today, it's like people growing
up out of the ground like trees. They just started
to stand up, and we made the mistake. Like years ago,
record did what it was gonna do. So Paul was
in charge of the rundown. He said, well, we can

(01:01:38):
take my girl out of this. It did what it's
gonna do. So we took it out and we did
the show quest y'all. They call us every name except
the child of God, so we will that is, I
tell the guys even today, I said, there are some
certain songs we can never ever take out. My girl,

(01:01:58):
Uh just my matching nation. Ain't too proud to be.
Can't get next to you. Papa was a rolling stone
losing you now treat it like a lady. So like
we have a new record album out now, and so
I'm tasked with and I'm going to do because we
only have a four hours show. Man, how long is.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
The average hour and a half to pack all this
hour and a half? I mean that's with with banter
in between and non met Just one.

Speaker 5 (01:02:30):
Hook, right, like, just go to one hook and then
go to the next song.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
Well we got yeah, No, we work it our way.
We well, like, ain't you proud? We do all of
Ain't you proud? We do all of my girl and
the what you do?

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:02:46):
Fortunately, you know, we try not to never cheat our
fans because they paid their money to see the show.
So but uh yeah, you know hour and a half.
You know, we try and insert as much as we
can so they can say, can still jumping around you
after all? These just switched, That's what they're saying now,
because we just did a big show in uh outside
of Maryland, and it was packed there and I have

(01:03:07):
been getting calls by man and the most amazing thing,
he said, but the seold is still up there, keeping
up with the rest of I said, I'm keeping up
with them.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Right, yo?

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
What do you say that?

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Like the young artists who you know there are some
artists who maybe two albums that are tired of doing
their song that was the big hit in it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Any time you have fans that's been their heart earned
money to come see you, and you're gonna tell I'm tired. Oh,
we don't want to do that. Uh, then you should
leave it alone.

Speaker 5 (01:03:37):
I want to do all my new stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
They should leave the get out the business.

Speaker 5 (01:03:42):
That's what we think to when we're in the audience.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
But you know, see, yeah, well I'm an artist and
I'm telling them that's the attitude you have. Get out
of the business. Paper spend their hard earned money in
the c these songs and you don't want to do them.

Speaker 5 (01:03:54):
Because you're tired tired of doing them.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Yeah, I want to use the N word to please.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
How uh of the groups that you guys have inspired,
especially the seventies onslaught of groups everyone from Blue Magic
to boy Man Dynamics is period as well. I was
sticking in the seventies, but I mean even even well,
I mean well, yeah, just as at least no, no, no,
hang on, because the thing is is that I feel

(01:04:25):
like when it's twenty years down the line and it's
someone young, then you're more willing to accept, like, yeah,
I influenced them. Okay, get where you go. But how
did you guys feel like with the onslought of all
the seventies groups that are based on you guys, And
I mean, like all those groups the choice for the champments, Yeah, enchantment,
like just all those groups that have the same breakdown

(01:04:47):
a falsetto guy, I have a bathroom. Guy, did you
guys feel a certain way or you know?

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
Of course we took it as a compliment, you know,
and when you sit, I mean I gave it all
the way today. Hey, when I watched Bruno Mars when
he had he did the Super Bowl over a couple
of years ago, I saw three important elements in his
show James Brown, Michael Jackson and the temptation. Now he's
here in the twenty first century, so our influence reached

(01:05:16):
from now all the way back then runs the gamut.
And when I have, uh I see somebody that's doing us,
I said, Okay, I I liked him cause the Tempters
influenced them. Ye know, so you can't do nothing but
take it as a uh a compliment.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
You guys covered Bruno on the New Record, right.

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
Uh yeah, we did one of his homes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Yeah uh huh And remember the time, right, uh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
Yeah, remember yeah. Uh well remember the time I tell
you when I got the list and they said, we'll
just pick out what you want uh to do for
the new album. Uh. Mike had invited me down to
the studio when he was recording. Remember the time, and
him and I were in the uh his uh trailer
talking you know, and uh when they said Mike were
ready for you, but him and I were sitting in
his trailer talking about days of Yo because uh and

(01:05:59):
Tay will what brought back to mind because we were
talking about we were in Chicago and uh Jesse Jackson
had uh yeah, and they hit the ten of us
on stage. So uh when I guess the girl said,
oh oh they getting ready to come off the stage.
All these women and girls start coming to get on

(01:06:20):
the stage. So one of the security guys, what are
we gonna do to protect these guys? There's ten of them.
Somebody said get a U haul truck. They got a
U haul truck. They put the ten of us in
there with security and uh, it was pitch black. And
then but Mike said, where's ODIs, Where's ODIs and somebody

(01:06:41):
cut the light on inside the truck and I said, Mike, Mike,
I'm right here. I never will forget the look that
he had in his eyes of love now min you.
He didn't ask about his brothers, he didn't ask about
the other towns. Where's oldest? And I said, I might
hear Mike come right here? And he looked up there
and he had the damn this little I love you
looking so But I was there the uh uh taping

(01:07:03):
of remembering the time. So when I saw it, I said,
oh no, we gotta do remember the time because it
gave me that kind of remembrance that's so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
In your in your entire catalog, if you could just
what what to you is your three personal quintessential favorites
and in the Temptations catalog right out the gate, my girl,
So even though you performed it every day of your life, and.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
That's you, that one uh I had saying too proud
to beg because Norman brought that track to my house
because we all lived in Detroit, and I said, man,
the track is oh you know, so ain't too proud?
It would be the second one. You know. I'm a
big temptation fan. I could go a lot longer than three,

(01:07:57):
but you only pick three. Just my imagination.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
What okay, what one under the radar song that I
was going to ask that? Yeah, never really made it,
like a favorite of yours. That didn't make it, like
when you think that deserves a second look, that didn't
get a shot the first time.

Speaker 4 (01:08:15):
Now, this is one I really enjoy listening at. And
it was a guy that worked at Motown named Steve McKeeva.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
Yes, yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:08:27):
Oh yeah, he said, oldest that elevated eyes. I said, really,
I said, I've always liked.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
That elevator eyes. That's a whole I work at thirty Rocks.
That's hr we get sent to the principal office for elevator.

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
Oh yeah, Well, young lady she since passed. She was
a forensic psychologist and her and I were talking and
she said, oldis have you ever heard of the term
elevated eyes? I said, hell, oh no, I never heard
of that. And she said, well, if you are working
in the blue collar field and a young lady walk

(01:09:06):
by and you be to my baby, you show oh
excuse me and go and continue where she can go
to the human resources h Yes, exactly your job.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Wow, we're not alone. There was something that we just
made up.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
But what made me really say, oh, okay, you're not
the only one. Uh. Oprah had a forensic psychologists on
our show and I asked her the same thing. She said, no,
I've never I said, well, I don't feel like boo
to fool any if over he heard, you know, and uh,
I said, you know what, Kathy, I'm al write a
song called Elevated Eyes, and uh, young lady wrote me,
text me and she said, older, you need to do

(01:09:42):
something with that Elevated Eyes. So that would be one
that I would really and it would kind of be
apropos what's what's happening with the me too? Thing? Because
this song tells about her? You really, you know, you
can see the young lady, but you don't trespass. You
just let her know. She looks nice and peripheral. Yeah, uh,
but you know you have to watch that. But that one.
I told her, I'm gonna still work that out and

(01:10:04):
find somebody to do it because the lyrics and the track,
you know, it's tight.

Speaker 5 (01:10:08):
Now's the time, Yeah it is.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
I see my last question, how come you didn't sing more?

Speaker 4 (01:10:17):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
What prominently on the lead?

Speaker 4 (01:10:19):
Because your on point, because I was the lead singer
at when we were the Distance. Okay, because Billy my
valet he went on the internet and found Open your
Heart and what else did it? It was another song that
I did. But my thinking was when we got to
Motown and you know, because it wasn't like, uh, I

(01:10:39):
couldn't sing lead on it. I just say, man, I
don't give ever care who sing as long as we
make this money. And it wasn't like, oh wait, wait, bro,
you're getting paid more because she sang lead. Oh hell no,
I want to sing lead. So it wasn't that kind
of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:10:52):
Oh, everybody got the same I was wondering about that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
No excuse me, No, no, everybody got the same pay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
But then that's weird because since you were found a member,
and then so Melvin. But regardless, it's a new guy whatever,
we all the same.

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
Yeah, that's where it was at that. Yeah. And uh
but Tom Bell. We did an album with Tom Bell
and he recorded us and I was just hormming something
and Tom stopped. He said, you the one I should
be recording. I said, really, why you said that? He said,
I like your voice. I said, oops, too late. You know,

(01:11:27):
we had, you know, finished recording. But my attitude has
always been like, hey man, I just wanted us to
make it, and you know my ego didn't get hung
up on the thing. Well I got the sing lead,
I'm the group leader. I found this shit stuff. You know. No,
it wasn't that with me. Let us all make money
and be successful, and uh that's it, you know. But uh,
I guess I never did really make any real bones

(01:11:48):
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Just did you make What about the writing process because
you said earlier on you wrote some songs for the stations,
but did it continue on?

Speaker 5 (01:11:56):
Because it sounds like I'm okay, okay yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:59):
On our this album Temptations all the time I did
along with two other guys waiting on you Elevate Eyes,
Treaeau like the Lady. Yeah yeah, so no, I love
writing when I can, you know, give a chance to
do it. So yeah, that's my other thing of doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Well, I know you have another three hundred years in you, So.

Speaker 4 (01:12:23):
I love you Quz. Yeah. Yeah, I'm all. Like I said,
I'm gonna ride the health the horse. When I get
off the horse, it'll be ball.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
And that's how we have to end it. Thank you
very much. We're coming on Quest Love Supreme. Thank you,
thank you for you have love Boss Bill Sugar Steve.
It's like yeah, particular and unpaid Bill. This is Quest
Love of Quest Love Supreme. We will see you on
the next go round. Thank you. Quest Love Supreme is

(01:12:55):
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