QLS Classic: Spike Lee (Part 1)

In part 1 of 2, director, producer, writer and actor Spike Lee talks about growing up in pre-gentrified Brooklyn, his first Super 8 camera and why his films are more relevant today than ever.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This
classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies
and Gentlemen. Welcome to QLs Classic Episode forty seven with
the Great Spike Lee August two, thy seventeen. A side note,
our guest today deserves credit at least for inspiring the

(00:21):
Supreme Roque Hall theme song of our beloved show. Besides that,
Spike Lee is a provocateur, a visionary, a storyteller, great,
a hustler, accentric soul. This episode came slightly before his
Oscar victory for Black Clansmen in twenty nineteen. But don't worry.
We get it all out, all of his journeys, all
of our favorite movies. We get to ask him everything

(00:44):
right here on QLs Classic with the Great Spike Lee.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is gonna be really awkward.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Oh my god, Soma su Supremo role call Suprema Son
Sons Loving Albody, Suprema Son Son Supremo role called Suprema
Son Son Upbramo.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
So I'm just gonna sit here, yeah and have the
call yeah and pray the Spike don't suit me. Yeah,
we're stealing his song.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Roll Call Supremo Supremo roll call, Subpremo son something Supremo
rod call.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
My name is Fante, Yeah, dropping these flows, yeah, because.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
A Supremo roll call, Supremo some Supremo road.

Speaker 5 (01:43):
My name is Sugar, Yeah, the inside man.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, I've been with the roots.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah since the Bamboozles band.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Rama Supremo roll call.

Speaker 6 (01:57):
Son some Supremo roll call Lee once was yeah boss
Bill's teen hero Yeah, but directing skills, Yeah, I had almost.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Hero subprema so Supreme roll Suprema son Supremo role.

Speaker 7 (02:16):
I want to let you know. Yeah, I'm not just
for show.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, will you let me go?

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Oh god, Supreme roll explain that.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
After the roll. My name is Spike, yeah with the nickname.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
My mother said, yeah, I was out of his world.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Rolling Suprema something Supremo, roll call, Subprema something something Supremo role,
subframa son Supremo roll.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
One person clapping.

Speaker 7 (03:02):
I'm not just for sure.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yet what school day.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Song written? Because her timing? Because she up, I didn't
It's hard, you know, Okay, now he hears the song
in everybody.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
I didn't recognize the song either.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
And did you recognize Wait, before I even introduce you
Spike Lee. Uh, he just did what is the history
behind uh your roll call?

Speaker 8 (03:37):
Like?

Speaker 2 (03:38):
I heard that at Morehouse? Oh so that's I didn't
make that up.

Speaker 7 (03:42):
Isn't it like a warm up?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Like? So we just baby just going to school Morehouse,
they had a roll call and we just incorporated into
uh school days and do it again? Did it again
when he got game? So that was in school days.
It wasn't.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Because I first and get on the bus on school
days too.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
I gotta watch it, watch it again again the gam Mites.

Speaker 8 (04:16):
Really yeah, when they first get in, when they first
come on and they walk down the gam Mites.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Oh, I gotta watch it again. Okay, wow, well ladies
three times. Okay, ladies and gentlemen. This is another episode
of Quest of Supreme. Uh introducing the fam This is
uh damn. I really wish uh fon tigelow Uh who
who was the the the bus driver of get on

(04:45):
the bus. And to my right we have Sugar Steve,
who was one of the thugs in in Summer of sam.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
That's what's up? Yeah? Yeah, what last your last name?

Speaker 5 (05:00):
No, At the end of the vowel, I was around
back then, but it was I didn't do it. I
actually actually I have a similar last name to the
guy who did do it.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Okay, uh yeah, and uh Boss Bills to my left
eacle Sandwich. Oh, he was one of the cornermen on
Do the Right Thing. I was going to ask to
be Bob Regular from Girls six Bob Regular. No, okay anyway,
and we have Fresh from Crookland.

Speaker 7 (05:36):
Ok.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, she was the girl making out with with was
also in Crookland. Y'all were making out with each other
and the and the until the beginning.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Job. I hate Ticky, No Tacky go to Joe Cuba.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yes, finally, uh it's It's taken some time, but I
will say that, at least for me personally, and maybe
I speak for most of the inhabitants of this room,
that we we have the the director of our particular
generation with us right now.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Thank you very much, mister Spike.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Sheldon Lee, New Yorker Film r Tour, political activists and
and and great human being.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
How are you. I'm good, I'm glad to be here.
And we're in Electric Lady studios, so this is very historical.
Wait somebody.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
To say that, yes, I'm sorry, I've not been given
Electric Lady.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
There props.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
We're live in studio a where many a classic has
been born, A lot of.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Great spirits in here. Well we are right now. You
can feel it. Walk in the door. You could feel
the spirits. Well, Spike.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
I know when when Spike agreed to do this, he
was like, so it's like forty five minutes. I was like, no, ninety,
He's like, all right, so now right. I was like, no,
Spike ninety. I tried to hint. I was like, well,
in the Jimmy Jam episode, it was seven hours. Spike
was like, nah, motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
So I'm good. We had to let me go. Oh
you don't mean that. You don't mean that. Let me
lean back.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
All right, So I'm gonna because we're we have so
much questions about your.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Your film, decade to work, body of work. Yes for
thirty years. Yeah, you were born where in Atlanta, Georgia?

Speaker 1 (07:47):
In Atlanta, Georgia, right, Really? I thought you were born
in New York.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
No, I was born in Atlanta, Georgia. My parents moved
to Brooklyn. We moved to Crown Heights when I was
like two years old. Move from Crown Heights doing the
first Black family Cobble Hill. Wow, that's where all my
Italian American thing comes back, because back then the cobble
Hills is stone Italian American. And then my mother says
Tony Patton rent. So we bought a brownstone in Fort

(08:15):
Green for forty five thousand dollars in nineteen sixty eight.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Wait, how is that even possible?

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Sixty eight? What was that like? Pre gentrification? In fact,
the realtors wouldn't even list for Green, they would say
downtown Vicinity. So it's really been a trip that you
grow up in Fort Green, predominately black and Puerto Rican schools,
no good garbage, never picked up, cops on around, and
those things aren't like that anymore with the change, and

(08:45):
they know they are not garage, just cleaned up. Public
schools are great on the cops or wrong.

Speaker 7 (08:51):
I was trying to explain to my New York daddy
what Dumbo was today.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
He was like, what I do? I don't know down
on the Manhattan Bridge, that's what it is.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
For the films that you've shot in Brooklyn neighborhoods, how
different are they now?

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Like the do the right thing block? Like, what is
that now? Is that? Like it's counttainable, it's gentified. So
no more black families, no more brown but I gentify,
I mean Do the Right Thing was shot in bedstide
door died bephis diverson. But the great thing about that
New York City, that block we shot on, we shot

(09:27):
do on thing of one block. The summer nineteen eighty eight,
that block has been renamed Do the Right Thing Way.
That's the first time a movie, a song has ever
been just named the name after that. So we take
our nest also where we have our Michael Jackson block
parties too, on the same block.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
So is that the block where I visit the office
and it's the office is further down downtown.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
My office in Fourth Green, Okay, so okay, that's not yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
And the place where you when I visited your first store,
like back in ninety one, is that still up.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
That's called Chez Paulette, Okay.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
But that's the new name of the block or the
new name of the.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
It's a restaurant. But my office is on South South Elliott. Okay.
What the restaurant is is where the original Spikes Joint was,
Oh okay, and I own that building to And so
when we did Jungle fever Us where halle Berry. We're
gonna put a plaque there where she stayed. Wow. Wait,
that's the scene where oh there's no scene, and that's

(10:37):
that's just where she stayed. Wash, she washed, she was
shooting the film.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Oh damn, okay, that's not where the Ta Mahall scene was.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
The wake up. Let's let's halle Berry's first film, too
Jungle Fever And did she really not shower for all
those days? And he goes the story, Wait, wait, wait, wait,
let's get to that. We can do it now. She think, uh,
Robbie Reid cast that film, and so she brought a

(11:08):
halle Berry came in five times mm hmm. And the
role is viving the two dollars crack hot, and the
first four times she was just too fun. Finally, some
must have told her, you can't kind of looking like this,
So she I think she's ben bayed for a week.

(11:30):
And I didn't even recognize when she stepped in the room.
And that's how she got the part. Wow. I just
did not see her finely she was. That's the opposite.
I did not see it as being a two dollars
crack hot. Wow.

Speaker 7 (11:45):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
She showed us, didn't she did so why, I mean
at a time where where the seventies and the upward
mobility and you know a lot of our you know,
the ways that black people expressed themselves creatively, usually through
sports or singing.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Right, why did you choose visuals?

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Why did you choose I mean, was it that you
had a child experience where you saw like Gordon Park
Works And no.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
It wasn't that. When people ask that question a lot
and I just say, a film chose me. I grew
up in a very artistic background. My mother taught us
great high school in Brooklyn Heights called Saint Anne's. She
taught black literature. My father's a great jazz musician, composed
a Bill Lee, And I just grew up in a

(12:39):
very artistic household. My mother had the vision, not that
she was going to be artists, but she exposed us,
just not just me, but all my siblings to the arts.
So she was dragging me the Broadway plays museums while
you know, and I didn't want to go. We went
kicking and screaming. Every single time we came home. We

(13:02):
would we would think it because that.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Was that was fun.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Well, you're going to zoom going to plays like My
mother's one introduced me to Martin Squaresese. She took me
to see mean streets. My father hated movies. I mean,
but I love sports. So my love of sports comes
from my father. There right, My love of movies comes
to my mother. I was my mother's movie date.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
I was gonna ask, how how is one film buff
before the age of the remote control the rewind button?

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Netflix? Uh yeah, and just cable because they had you
know a wait, I forgot the word from, but you
had the theaters has showed old films.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
So even back in the seventies they would still show
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean there was, but was it
film new are like now in the weekends, I know
eleven or twelve movie theaters in New York that will
show I mean.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
It's not get hotter, so it's the Saint Mark. I'm
begetting the theaters. But they were certain theaters. That's all
they showed was old films. And that's the only where.
I mean, this is room before DHS. Okay, So I
mean unless you stayed up, you know, watch with the
commercials on Channel che eleven, you went to these retrospective theaters.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
But was there film noir on the level, like, now,
you know, I'll buy all the Criterion collection right stuff
and watch the you know, like what was that for you?
Like what was the director's commentary for you? I mean
that really seduced you into.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
But it wasn't like that. I mean I went to films,
but I was not a film buff. I didn't want
to be a filmmaker. I wanted to play second best
second base for New York Mets, but genetics conspired against
that second baseman I have for short stop, but I
only played softball. But but here, here's the story though,

(14:59):
and I said it many times and maybe audience hasn't
heard it. I went to Morehouse because I had to
go to Morehouse. My father and grandfather went to Morehouse,
and my mother and grandma went to Spellman across the street. Third,
I'm some educated Negroes. My father, my father was a
fresh and Morehouse. Doctor King was a senior Morehouse and

(15:21):
doctor King's son, Mark King, the thirty and I were classmates.
Were in the class seventy nine and Morehouse also with
Jay Johnson used to be head of home Security. Oh,
we were all the class saty nine and Morehouse. So
my first two years in Morehouse. I was a D
plus C minus student. It was because I wasn't smart.

(15:43):
I just was not motivated. And right before it's time
to go back to New York, back to Brooklyn. At
the end of my sophomare, my advisor told me that
I had to choose a major. I said why, and
she said, because you've exhausted all the electives. It's like,
this is now, this is this key, this is this

(16:04):
historical because it's twenty years now, It's like, this is
a very important summer twenty years ago, summer seventy seven.
So I came back to New York and New York
City was broke. You couldn't get a job usually, you know,
you get a job in the summer. Your newest New
York City was broke. And there's a famous daily news
front page it said Ford, this city drop dead, Ford

(16:25):
being president Ford. So I had nothing to do all summer,
and I didn't want to, you know, sit in and
stoop and play drata matic baseball, you know. And so
I have a very good friend. Her name is Vianna Johnson.
She was always smart. The top three, the top three
public high schools New York City are Stuyversont, Bronx Science,

(16:45):
Brooklyn Tech, and so you could take a test depend
on your grade. The tear is diversand's first Bronx Science,
then Brooklyn Tech. Brooklyn Tech is on the same block
where where of course street direct cross street from Spikes
joined on a block from my office now forty acres
on the mule. Anybody went over at this house. She's
always smart and went to Stuyvesant, went to Prince Undergrad

(17:11):
Harvard Med School. She always we always, she always knew
she's gonna be a doctor. So so one day, and
looking back on this, I understand it was not lucky.
It was the spirit. The spirit told me to go
see Vieta that day because I wasn't doing it. Damn
ship to do. So I go see vi Ata. She lived.
Her lived on ashing place where University Towers is, right

(17:32):
across the street from l I U where the field is.
And so we're sitting in the living room and it's
the box in the corner. I say, what is that box?
She said, that's super a camera. You can have it. WHOA.
And then I say, what's another box? She says, stupid,
that's the box. That's the that's the cartridge for the

(17:52):
Super Break film for the camera, she says, you know,
I don't need this shit. I'm gonna be I'm you know,
I'm I'm gonna be a doctor. Right. This is his sister.
She's a doctor in Chicago. Now, so now I had
something to do. So the entire summer nineteen seventy seven,

(18:14):
so I didn't have a job. I ran around New
York City with the Super eight camera. It was also
one of the hottest summers on record. That's why there
was a blackout when Conazen fucked up. Black folks Puerto
Ricans lost their mind, looting like mother. Right, I was
filming it Fifth Street, filmed it on, filmed it on

(18:39):
on on Fulton Street in Brooklyn. Also, seventy seven was
the first summer disco, so all the DJs were hooking up.
The wheels are still and to the turn to the
in the turrible speakers, the street lamps, so I was
still on the block parties. The dance was a hustle.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Also, the film from uh, the Off the Wall documentary, Yeah, yeah,
that's where footage comes from.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
So then we had this maniac called psychoed David Burkowitz.
Here's the thing that people forget about that summer, Black
and Puerto Rican people were now scared of David burke
Witz because this is this is before Gentification, and the

(19:29):
motherfucker David burke was to come into Harlem, to come
to South Bronx, to come to bedside do or die,
he would have been killed, right And it's not I'm
not making fun of us because people lost loved ones.
But the fact remains Black people, Puerto Ricans not. We

(19:50):
weren't worried about son of Sam So had this footage.
Came back to school in the fall and declared my
major asked medications, but Morriston had that major. I took
the class from Majors across the street to Clark College Massifications, Film, TV, Radio,

(20:11):
print Journalism. I forget what the other thing is. And
there's a teacher there. He's still teaching that that. His
name is Professor Herb Eichelberger.

Speaker 8 (20:18):
Yes, doctor, I went to Clark You went to Clark Radio,
TV film, Doctor Eichelberger.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Was give it a u c AU center. So he
doctor her Biker who's still teaching there. He's the one
that encouraged me to be a filmmaker. He's went. When
I talk about this footge I had. I took the
footage back to the Atlanta That's what Morris says, but
I didn't know what I was gonna do with it.

(20:44):
He encouraged me to make a documentary and that documentary
turned out to be Last Hustle on Brooklyn. And there
are many times so her doctor Eichelberger called doctor e.
He had the key to the film lab and two
or three times a week he would stay three four

(21:04):
hours so I could work on a film. He wasn't
getting paid overtime either. And it's been my maybe you
guys will experience in my experience. I've talked a lot
of people, and everybody talks about that one teacher they
had that saw something in you do youn't even see Wow.
And Herb Eichelberg was when he said, he said, you

(21:27):
know what. I started to think about the all this stuff.
Then it came back to me full circle. My mother
started was taking me to movies. I remember my mother
taking me East the Sun and see motherfucker Bye by Bertie, Wow,
and the openings. No people noticed the opening credit sequence
do the Right Thing Comes from Bye by Bertie and

(21:48):
Margaret That's where shit came from.

Speaker 8 (21:50):
Rosie Perez comes from Anne Margaret. I mean because she
dances her asshole though Ann Margaret, she.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Does, That's where it came from. Wow. So all these
things that happened started to spring up again. But my
mother got blessed her soul. If you saw a crooking,
you know, you know. My mother died while I was
the sophomorehouse. All these things she planted, you know, bore
fruit many many years later. But I did not grow
up want to be a filmmaker. That just didn't happen. Yo.

Speaker 8 (22:17):
Speaking of circles, I just want to mention real quick
in a strange circle. By the time I went to Clark,
I believe Bill Nunn was a teacher at Clark Atlanta.

Speaker 7 (22:24):
I just wanted to that when he rest prest in peace.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah. So Bill Nunn and Sam Jackson morehouse men. But
they had graduated before me. But they were still in
Atlanta doing local theater, and that's where I met them.
They were a couple of years ahead of me.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
So can I ask you what is I mean now?
In my mind? Like Atlanta culture became cool mid to
late eighties, especially with music, migration and people coming down there.
But what was Atlanta like? Like, were you rolling your
eyes up in there? Like was anything cooler than New York?

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Like, Nah, it was the coolest.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
And when you went down.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
And I can speak with authority if you went if
you were from New York and you went down South,
all these motherfuckers were bamas has bamas, and we were
very arrogant. I understand now they hated us that people.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
From New York that conversation, seeing that the KFC in
school days was like a real that was typical of.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Well, that really was a New York thing. That's more
like college students, the local yokals versus that's real too.
Here's the thing though, because the aut centers it's called
and they called the buttom milk the buttermilk bottom, so
like even us seasonal hood yales and the but you

(23:52):
Southern cal is in the hood yales in the hood.
So you had these oasis in Colombia before they brought
up all motherfucking Harlem not so hot either. These real
estate motherfuckers they're trying, you know, they're trying to change
the name of Malcolm X Boulevard to read Avenue.

Speaker 8 (24:11):
What Google happened to DC already our Malcolm X turned
to Meridian Hill.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
They changed the name.

Speaker 7 (24:17):
It's Meridian Hill Malcolm X Park. Nope, Meridian Hill.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Actually, are are the the I lived on Avenue Philis?

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Really? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Are our Malcolm X part just changed to we are
now called uh Walnut Oak Lane. I'm not even Westville now,
it's it's they changed the name Walnut Lane.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
That she ain't happening. I'm sorry, Harlem. They want to
change it back to read Avenue. Fuck that.

Speaker 7 (24:47):
It's like anything possible in gentrification land.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
That's crazy. I'm sorry, but that that's crazy. But that's
that's that's really the origin how I became a filmmaker. Wow,
So the camera just basically just fell right in your lap.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
But that was you still have that camera? Where's that camera?

Speaker 2 (25:05):
I don't know. But here's the thing, though, I say,
don't have to pay for it. There's a new museum
in Philly. But here's the thing, not did you say it?
I don't think I think that was ordained, because I

(25:29):
don't think it was a mistake that that day I
just decided to go see Vienna, and that day the
super A camera was just sitting there in the corner, and.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
That career and handed you your career, you know what.
Side note on a parallel tip now that I'm thinking
about it, Spike Lee is also responsible for the roots
because our story is very similar. Where after my audition
at the New School and at Juilliard and Tariq.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Came up with me to New York for the weekend.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
On my train ride home back on on on SCEPTERA
from Jersey to back to Philly, a girl walked up
and thought that I was Chocolate the bucket drummer and
that Levi's commercials. She thought I was chocolate, But it's.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Only because button.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
But it's only because I did Boys to Men's Motown
Philly video and our hair was sort of similar, so
may I knew she meant, are you the drummer in
Motown Philly video? But she's like, oh, you're in that
Spike Lee commercial, right, And so we were like laughing,
like yo, man, like because that's that summer, Like fame
just started a little taste of it, like people started recognizing,

(26:52):
you know. So me and Terka were like, oh, this
is kind of cool. But it was the next day
when we were watching Soul Train and the commercial came
on and it just hit us like eureka, Like we
look at each other like, yo, wait while we do that, Like,
let's do that in Philly, And instantly we got the
buckets and like the roots as you know, it was

(27:13):
born that way. But commercial, when you're Levi's commercial came on,
it's like, Yo, we need to do that. And then
we four hours later we're on South Street busking and
then now I'm sitting here with Spike Lee elegally.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Let me get this in is that you know a
lot of people, you know, they tell you whether they
like it film or not. But the biggest complidence ever
get it's when people of all generations say they went
to a black school or they went to college because
of school. I mean when people say that there's nothing better.

(27:49):
When they said because of that film, motherfucker, we even
thinking about going to school. Didn't even know those there
were things that black colleges and I'll be honest, I
didn't know the culture was that rich.

Speaker 7 (28:03):
Like seeing that then I was like, oh, like it
kind of set off a different world.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Who knew? Yeah, yeah, that was simultaneous.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Wait, was it a mistake that half the people that
were in the same casting director.

Speaker 7 (28:20):
That's right because it was a different world first. That's
how we knew it was wrong and.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Came out first.

Speaker 7 (28:27):
That's what I meant.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
I think it's the thing though, you know, and I can't.
I can't fault Bill Cosby. I should have been on it.
I should have. I just had a different ideal about
you know, stupid me, Miles TV. I'm not gonna do TV.
And he saw the idea and he swooped in on it.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Wow, before we started your film career, how did you?
How did you gather the moss that will be? You're
in a circle like, how did you meet Ernest Dickerson?

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh? How did you?

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Who was your starting five? Besides? Did you have the
same light people, the same centerment? Who's the starting lineup?

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well after Morehouse, I still knew I did not have
enough skills as to be a director. Filmmaking the grammar
the same way you put together a paragraph whatever granted
this thing called film grammar. So I applied, I did
my research, applied to the top three film schools in
United States of America AFI American Film Institute USC S

(29:32):
link all the Trojans in n YU. To get an
AFI USC, you had to get an astronomical score in
the g r E. I took the jury and I
did not get that astronomical score. There were more forward thinking,
progressive people thinking people in n YU the grad films
could think that what you know, they understood the Standarize

(29:53):
test and could be biased. He has to do being
a filmmaker, so I didn't have to take a test,
applied or do submit have a an undergrad degree. And
some of your great portfolio I got in. Also, Ernest
Dickerson got it. We were in the same class. We
both from black schools, earning with Ernest with the Howard
Wow oh wow, grew up in New Jersey, so right

(30:17):
away we hit it to Ernest. Ernest shot all my
in Why You In, Why You Grab? Film is three
years so he shot my second year film, my thesis film,
Joe's Best Sided Barbership, which won the Student Gammy Award.
And and and because that film this is key, Ernest

(30:40):
shot Joe's Best Barbershop. And that's that's that film. God
named John Sales film brother Another Planet. Oh so oh
so what it was great is because we always could
work together. But it's great that Ernest had already shot
a feature before he did, She's gotta have it, so

(31:01):
he has more experience and knowledge. Yeah, so Ernest the DP.
My editor is Barry Brown. Barry got my first job
he had. He was owner of an independent distribution company
called First Run Features. After graduate n y U, where
I was just cleaning films and stuff like that. He
cut it my father, Billy's composer Wynn Thomas from Philly.

(31:25):
Production designer Ruth Carter, the great Ruth Carter went went
went to Hampton. Ruth Carter, Robbie Reid, and Ray Dowell
all were classmates, the same class really in Hampton. Wow, man,
I did not know that.

Speaker 7 (31:45):
Huh your network.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Network?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
So that that was for many years.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
That was the like, that was it. So Ernest shot
features for me. She could have its school days do
thing were better? Jungle Fever. Malcolm X was the last
film sched real quick, and Ernest came in to be
a director.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
I was gonna say he came into.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
He came to a director, but his cinematography was so
tight that eventually he will become a director by being
a DP. And so after Malcolm X, his first director
of film was Juice. So I was right. Now, Ernest
is the top one of the top episode of TV directors. Yes, wow,

(32:33):
you see everywhere everywhere.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Who decides the fifty one forty nine of it? Like
I would assume that, you know, the president's the director
and the vice president's the cinematographer, and you you got
to be married to each other. So I mean, how
come you guys didn't have a thing like Okay, we'll
do this project and then I'll do the cinematography and
you do directing or that's.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
I was not a cinematographer. What's the difference between Yeah,
what is the different photograph the movie, the deep topha
the same thing? Okay, yeah, right, that helps, but but
but there's different just totally two different. Some they are
DP directors, but usually is two different skill sets. And

(33:19):
Ernest's visual sense was so far advanced the mind that,
you know, when there was a question, you know, I'd say,
so if you're.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Talking about Spike Lee shot, the idea of the Spike
Lee shot, you.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Double dollary shot.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Well, not even that I'm talking about first before the
dollary shot. I'm thinking of a lot of your frames
were diagonal.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
That was only in in do direct thing.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
You had some abstract looking stuff. It was those for
she's got to have it. There was some abstract looking
I never thought of looking at someone. I've definitely remember
the first time you the cameras on the floor, more
looking up, like making people taller. Just things I've never
seen before. Well like who decides whose idea is that?

Speaker 2 (34:05):
It depends on you? I mean we usually back in
early it was Ernest ideal because his his visual sense
so much evanced in mind Ernest after graduated, Ernest was
an architecture major at Howard and then he didn't come
in while you right away he was a medical photographer
at the hospital. So I mean his visual sense was

(34:26):
was That's why everybody wanted Ernest to shoot their films.
And while you grad film So.

Speaker 7 (34:31):
Was he the double Dolly or is that you.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
We both There was a scene of More Better Blues
where we had First of all, we did not invent
that shot.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
We just where did you first see it? Or we
were like, okay, we gotta do that, and we did it.
But it wasn't too later we discovered we saw this,
people were doing it. I mean it was first when
you were avoiding the thugs and more Better.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, that was see what was wrong about that. When
you when you're on a double dollar, you really shouldn't move,
but I was trying to. I didn't We didn't know that.
We didn't know that trying to move like a walk.

Speaker 8 (35:12):
But I got a real dumb question, is there us?
I'm sorry, I got is there a single dollar shot?
Because you're saying are you saying it is? You're on
one and then the camera's on one or.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
No, it's just as it's one dollar, but the actress
sitting on the dollar, so therefore we call the double dollars.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
So you're sitting on the store, kay, apple box app Okay.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
But here's the thing though, Ernest and I would do it,
but finally we had we had a conversation. We said,
you know what, we're out of film school, so we
gotta we got to use this. So this shot means something.
So example where it means something is when the best

(35:56):
used probably is the next Yeah, he's going to the
Botto ballroom. And the reason why I did that. Doing
research for the film, I became very I became very
close with doctor Basha Bass, Malcolm's willow, the late great
doctor Basha Bass, and she told me she felt that
Malcolm knew he was gonna be assassinated. We went to

(36:18):
a ball and that he wanted to be a martyr.
She when she told me that, I said, well, how
can you convey that? And then we said we'll do
that the double dollar shot. Another example be twenty fifth
hour after the late great philipema Hoffmann kisses Anna was

(36:39):
her last night and right there kisses kiss is a
student and it his bathroom, and then it's like, oh,
ship would I do? And that's when he's coming out
to the song Brad.

Speaker 6 (36:53):
It's like, mad, I was going to ask about that
scene because that song is just too perfect for that.
That whole was too perfect.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
So what's a about an example, Denzel again an inside
Man where we see what we think is an all
thing of one of the hostages by Clive Owens character,
but turns out it's fake, but them do's know it.
So we wanted so right then and there, and he
feels that he's responsible for this hospital shot in the

(37:20):
head because he had roughed up Clive Owen's characters. So
that's when we have him doing that too.

Speaker 7 (37:25):
Can you use it a few times?

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, where he would have a conversation down the street
me and me and me and Wesley. Yeah, that's when
I admit that I I spilled the beans. Right.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Oh yeah, to to right. I told my wife so
for she's got to have it?

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Did you?

Speaker 1 (37:56):
I mean, what's how did you learn how to write
a screenplay?

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Well? By reading the screenplays? I mean, we had it
and want to use it. It's a great film schooling,
so that I had teachers who would we would show
the film. They will show you the film, they will
give you the screenplay. So it's a great learning experience
to read something and see how that's director will term

(38:25):
y'all translate. So that's that's how I shot. She's happen
twelve days really July first to the fourteenth, in the
summer nineteen eighty five, two six day weeks. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Wow, Like I'm trying to do the math of the
visual semi. Sorry for making this a very little interview,
but in my head, I'm like, and you shot on time.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
We had to. We didn't have any more money.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I was gonna say, did you, Holly, which shuffle it?

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Did you?

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Just here's my credit How do you have.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
A credit card?

Speaker 1 (39:04):
You have credit?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I have? We uh, we put that film. We really did.
We approached it the four stages. First stage was a
shoot it. Second, this is film now we shot at
Super sixteen. The second stage would get the film out
the lab. The third stage was crucial. Was me to

(39:26):
have enough money to eat? Why was it? Because I
edited the film and that was very crucial because I
was hanging out with the chef. You know what the
chef is, the chef chef board. You so don't front, Yes, we.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Have that was I'm pre pre rahmen, So wait, so
I recall one of my dad's business partners, like when
you first started coming on the scene, because there was
buzz at the same time, almost Simon Chanslee about you
and whoopees Rise in New York with her One Woman

(40:18):
and showing you doing film, and I remember when I
first ever heard of who you were. They were trying
to describe the fact. Did you have to hustle T
shirts or socks or something that?

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Oh, I know you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
What was the story behind that?

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Well, in the trailer for the film, it begins with
me saying tube sox, tube socks, three dollars. You can
google google it. When I'm selling? When am I selling
tube sox?

Speaker 1 (40:45):
I'm a director, so maybe they Okay, I'm thinking maybe they.
It was like, yeah he funded it selling t shirts
and tubsocks. Okay, I see so before we get to
school days and well, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
She's got to have it. How did you cast those people? Like?
What was that process? Like? We I put an ad
in backstage and people sending headshots and it was just
off the headshots that you you call them in And
the fine was Tracey Camilla.

Speaker 7 (41:20):
Jones and that was her in New jack City or
is that an urban legend?

Speaker 2 (41:24):
No, that was their projected projecting scarface on.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
You w high price, and you brought her back in
when we jumping with you brought her back in read summer. Also,
she has a cameo in your Netflix version that she's.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Got No, yeah, it was on Instagram anyway. Yeah it's true.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Okay, great, wait lashes and what I call them flash
from five Parties. But Melvin I knew you were knew.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
You want to say, Melvin John do you know this name?
I just I was about to say from Philly.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
I've seen him once and I think he was doing
an adaptation of both characters like a one grand and yeah, yes,
what serious?

Speaker 2 (42:31):
This was like fifteen years ago. He put both characters
together as a one man shows.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
It's it's like a retrospective of my history in cinema flash.
It's slowly at the top in store in two weeks.
So yeah, that's when I realized, like, oh, you live
in Philly. Like it was like the summer of ninety
four or something like, right when the Roots Versus got started,

(42:58):
and he's like, yeah, I'm doing a one man show
about you know, my career and the experiences of you.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Know that that sort of thing. So was not a
long run.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
End was closed, grand open and grand closing. All right,
school days, so many questions.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Can I get started on school days? First? Having the
first question of school days? Go ahead, pre date school
days by well o good.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
So after she's got to have it, Mars, Oh, I
forgot the videos too, Yes, a couple.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (43:33):
When you were, I guess, finishing up, she's got to
have it. You were getting started on another movie called
The Messenger.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
No, no, hold on, hold on that was legend. No,
I got it backwards backwards, Okay. After I finished in
Yu in the summer in May of eighty two, I
tried to do a feature film called Messenger we had.
It was starring Lawrence Fishburne, Jean Carsposito. I got involved

(44:07):
with the friend of the family who said he was
going to finance the film, and I got all my classmates,
We're gonna shoot this summer, this shoot this summer of
eighty four. And the money never came. So I had
to pull the plug. And my name was mud rightfully,

(44:29):
so so I had to lay low, and I just
said to myself, you know, I had three years of
of being a graduate film in YU, so I was
able to do a film with two or three people
speaking and that turning that she's gonna have. But it
was a complete disaster. Did you ever try to revisit
that project later on? Do you saw the screenplay? It's

(44:51):
not really for public consumption, And I just try to like,
it's an exercise.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
It exercise, it got it, got it.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
But but here's the thing, though, and here's a here's
a thing. I said this the other the other day
in London, I gave his speech there. There have been
so many times my life where I have one foot
on the ground and that one foot that spzic Air
Jordan is on the corner, is on the ground. But
the grounds on the cliff and that next the other

(45:26):
foot is about to take that step. And as I've
been I've been blessed because so many times, if I
was taken another step, it had been curtains. And if
I if I have gotten the money for mak that film,
I will not be here because I was not. I
had people jumping off cars, off roofs. I mean, just

(45:48):
crazy ship. There's no way I could have done it
not have been the end of me. Really, So it's blessing.
It's blessing a lot of times. Though we think about
this a lot of times. Some shit happens and ain't like,
oh shit, this is fucked up. But in retrospect you say,
you know what, I'm glad. I'm glad that.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
This is how I think you can resurrect it. Similar
to uh, Mario doing uh badass.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Make a movie about this movie.

Speaker 8 (46:21):
I think that's the movie, right, she gotta have It
was at the beginning of the Nike relationship.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Somebody wanted me to ask you that, yes and how
famous story. Two gentlemen who work for Widen and Kennedy,
still Nike's agency, Jim Davenport will Bill Widen, Uh. They
in Portland they saw the film, they got the ideal
the pair. Michael Jordan, my characters, Marsh called me up

(46:48):
and said, we want to do this. We're shooting thirty
five million black and white. You playing Mars, you could direct.
There's one thing, Michael Jordan doesn't know who the fuck
you are. I've never heard of a film. And he's
just on a big deal with with the Nike and
he said, so he has director's approval, and so Mike

(47:14):
could have gone with Bob Giraudy, those big time commercial directors,
Joe Picker. I mean, these guys are great. And it
wasn't until the All Star Game in Toronto, which is
two years ago. I finally got enough. Curse asked Mike.
I said, money, why did you choose me? Said?

Speaker 1 (47:37):
You know?

Speaker 2 (47:37):
He say, he said, because you're wearing the sneakers, right,
That's where it started. You had to meet him first,
and then, I mean, I mean, he made the decision,
he was going to do it before I met him.
But they yeah, but that's why he made that, That's
why he tided to go with me and not Joe Picker.

(47:59):
He was locking him.

Speaker 7 (48:00):
You would be doing it if you wasn't meeting with them.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
That's crazy. You know what, it probably was Mars the
take off its Jordans was making little to Nola. That's wait.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
I was about to say, yeah, you were rocking the
Threes by then.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yeah, damn no those Jordan ones. Yeah yeah, eighty six
the Threes do the right thing.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
You're right, the Trees were bugging out. I was going
to say, how did you how did you arrange for
the Threes to make their debut in that film?

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Like I bought them? Wait they were out by then
or just yeah they were off the sweet shot do
the right thing? Summer eighty eight. Oh okay, okay, that
makes sense.

Speaker 7 (48:52):
Where you keep them slight? What all your shoes? All
the knights?

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Jordan's in the vault with the Oscar signed Game War signed.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Wow, so you I know that you made By this
point after the movie, you also started making music videos.
You shot Why did you shoot a video to White
Lines when it wasn't a single?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Ernest and I were in film school, okay, and why
you videos coming out? So we wanted we did that.
White Lines video was on suspecause.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Sylvie Robinson commissioned you guys to do it.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
We did unspec and God Rest her soul and Joel
Joel Robins, but they were crooks. We do this video
for white Lines staring Laurence Fishburne. Give it to them,
they say, we don't want it. And then ten years
later they put a compilation of videos and do you

(50:01):
even see the splice marks? It wasn't even finished. They
put it on their compilation for Sugar record videos.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
Wow, once they realized who they had crooks? What was
it like shooting?

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Oh here's the thing. What was the Myles status? Shoot
for it? I haven't seen that one. So here's the thing.
The Miles be run that joint. Miles knew my father,
so he'd have cursed me out. He gave me everybody else.
He called you the motherfucking a second. But we were

(50:42):
cool to Spike. I know your pops, you know your
father was cool, so I'll leave you alone. But it
was just great. You know, I've been very lucky. Miles
Prince Michael Phillis hymen from from school day school days.

Speaker 7 (50:59):
Can we go back to Myles real quick?

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (51:01):
So when you saw Miles ahead? Okay, well okay, so
where you ever inspired to?

Speaker 2 (51:11):
What's the question?

Speaker 8 (51:11):
Can there ever be another Miles Davis movie after there
has been one and ship there.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Yeah. Here's the thing though, Look, I respect for Don Cheto,
and I just think that there's a thing called taking
liberties right but to event, I mean he he practiced
sid himself. He had the right write that story, get funded,

(51:41):
to get financed, and so the what's one man's name
the writer, what's the actor's name? That? And the whole
thing about his mask has been stolen that that never happened.
Mm hmm, it never happened.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
I will say, though, he can.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
I just say real quick, yes, That's why it pains
because I worked on Jackie Robinson three years. I worked
on James Brown for two years. I wanted to do Ali.
But you can't do nothing film about Jackie Robinson. You
can't do none the film about James Brown because the

(52:22):
rights are gone. That the States sold the rights. They
locked up, so you can't come behind them.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
No double jeopardy like film double Jeopardy. I mean there's
multiple incredible hawks. There was the greatest and there's a lead.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
See.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
The thing is, though, I think you got very lucky.
You got extremely lucky with Malcolm X for startists. He
had a short life, so you know him him cutting
his life, his life being cut in his thirties gives
you just enough space to wiggle and really tell a
meaty story, a three hour story. But it's almost like

(52:59):
it in your vision of James Brown. Could you get
from Augusta, Georgia in nineteen twenty eight all the way?
Could you even get to nineteen seventy four without really
cutting corners? Because the thing is, okay, the Miles thing
with Don might have been a little spotty, but I
least like the fact that they just chose one story.

(53:23):
I'd rather see a well put together story in the
day of life.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
Look, okay, you're.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Gonna tell a three month story about him recovering.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
But but what you're talking about, though, quest, is that
that's the rector's vision, because, for example, the reason why
I didn't get Jackie Robinson made because I wanted to
tell this whole story and they just wanted the powers
to be the gate cues, just want to just want

(53:54):
to do it. On nineteen forty seven, they broke the
you know, the color line, And I just think that
to say that this one life, I mean, this one year,
how did he get there? You know? And do we
know we're going to show you that he testified against
Paul Robson. You know that that he was Republican. Damn

(54:18):
we missed. I mean you you leave all that stuff out.
But again it says it comes down to the director's vision.

Speaker 7 (54:26):
You know, so who you gotta hurry up and swoop
down on before somebody else?

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Right now?

Speaker 8 (54:33):
Wells, I was writing for Wesley.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
To kill it. Damn, I really wanted. I wanted Donzela.
It was an age where he could have played Jackie. Yeah.
Wow it also I like to say something again this
all respect, How can brother man go from Jackie Robinson
James Brown? I have ever seen a picture through from Marshall?

(55:03):
Was that was? That was hertful? Now now Jacklin Boseman
is playing third good Marshall? What Google? It's like.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Google.

Speaker 7 (55:17):
I think it came out.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
It's coming out.

Speaker 7 (55:20):
We learned from Nina, right, don't you even.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
So? My brother man think of this Jackie Robinson, James Brown,
not Thirgod Marshall. Mm hmmm, playing man Della nuts like five?

Speaker 1 (55:44):
If anything, I would see what's your name from?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Uh? Empire? Philly? Uhm, no, no, what empire?

Speaker 4 (55:54):
If you would?

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, you know he's third good Marshall.

Speaker 7 (56:00):
Guess he was a natural with the didn't.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Have a.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Hudson Yo, it was yeah, that was main della. It
was what Yeah, Terrence Howard and Jennifer Hudson they had
they were winning in Nelson, Maine. Five man man Wait
what we're gonna take care of a part?

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Tad main question?

Speaker 7 (56:25):
How can that be five mandellas, one Jackie?

Speaker 2 (56:28):
This a joke?

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Nonfer Hudson. Jennifer does she have an accent?

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Yes, yeah, if you want to call it that.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
And then and Terrence, how was Maine della? Maine della?

Speaker 7 (56:44):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that's a real question.

Speaker 8 (56:49):
How you have five man delas and one Jackie Robinson
or one James Brown?

Speaker 7 (56:53):
A state wise fight? How does that work?

Speaker 2 (56:56):
The state has the power, Like, here's the thing, though,
you cannot do a film a biopickbo Jimmy Hendrix and
and drugs being it. You're not You're not gonna get
the music. Yeah, you're not gonna The state will not
give you the rights to to Jimmy hendricks music if

(57:17):
you have drugs in the film, not gonna get it.
So they just don't want a movie done.

Speaker 7 (57:23):
It was one done though it was the one with.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Had no music in it.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Yes, that's so with uh, let's go to school, say
with Prince recent death, is that something that you thought
about or.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Out there? Could even you don't holland for me about
the answer documentary?

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Yes, I cannot.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
I cannot do a feature film about Michael Jackson. Can
I cannot do a film about Prince especially, it's just
too First of all, it's it's too soon. And then
who are you going to cast?

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Who do you think?

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I think Andre Hollan would kill it? He was, he
was in. He was in that showed the nick he
was also the first movie was Miracle Saint Anna. That's right,
he was. You know he's serious. Andrea, I think Andrea bid.

Speaker 7 (58:26):
It is awesome. And he got some tools.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Oh hell yeah, we'll talk about complexion. Right. I'm sorry,
out the old school. I think that we just can't
discount our pigmentation.

Speaker 7 (58:44):
Wait a minute, Michael Max now.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Close, they were close? All right, I'm putting this out
there spite. Yes, I'm putting this out there. I believe
in my heart and hearts. And I told this to
first time I told this to her, she laughed. Second time,
I told her. She's like, Okay, Now I think she
hears me. I believe there's an Oscar waiting for you

(59:11):
and for Leslie Jones. If you guys, do Anina Simone proper.
I believe she is Nina Simone.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
You know what I see it. I told her I
think she I think she could pull off that.

Speaker 7 (59:25):
Nina Simone talk about putting on a spot. That's okay,
but I think she could do it.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
You don't have to you don't have to say nothing.
I'm putting it out there, Spike. I believe that Leslie
Jones in the position she is in Hollywood right now.
If the right screen, prey and the right film you
behind it. I believe you two can write each other
the Oscar Tower. I think you two can ride each
other the Oscar Glory and get the proper Nina Simone's story.

Speaker 7 (59:54):
Will the estate allow it?

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Now?

Speaker 7 (59:56):
I'm stuckling as a state.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Ship, daughters, But her art doesn't run a state.

Speaker 7 (01:00:01):
Just made Spike to a movie. He even thinking, but the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
State they'll come on out. They didn't like what's her name? Well?

Speaker 7 (01:00:08):
Who did?

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Her dard is not connected like the Caretaker had. You know, Okay,
that was his story. He told his story that happened
to Nina the.

Speaker 7 (01:00:19):
Moment espetually after the documentary, it's like, come on, bitch.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 6 (01:00:23):
Yeah, back back to Prince really quick. Has the estate
been in contact with you? I guess they're looking for
somebody to do the documentary. They have the Footageinete the
eighty three First Avenue concert where they filmed or where
they recorded in Purple Rain. Already told them Okay, well
the audience hasn't heard this story, so no, no, I'm
just talking to you as a friend, like I begged
them to go to Spike.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Yeah, so the not heard from the state.

Speaker 6 (01:00:46):
Yeah, they're looking for somebody to do a documentary around
this footage that they have of this concert where they
have of Purple Rain was recorded. So I think that
would be perfect for you after the Michael Jackson docs.
So yes, I would love to see it through your eyes.
So just putting that out there too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
And I want to thank you for being very helpful
with the with Off the Wall and Bad twenty five talk.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Man, you're one of my favorite storyteller us.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
That's that, but you got you got stories too, man.

Speaker 5 (01:01:12):
Stuff Spike I have some old footage form my bar
I did edit possible. You got some kind of something
my family, give it the spill Bird.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
We got another music video to talk about what neither Baker.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Which one we get into it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
No one in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Because you're selling sons.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Also in at the end of that video as well. Yeah,
we shot that the world famous Apollo, which soon being
called the Beginner.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
I really, now wait what.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
In the episode?

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Yeah, so bike, Yes off school days?

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Yes days was my four years at Morehouse jam packed
into a homecoming weekend. Yes it was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Now okay, I've probably watched all of your directed commentaries
at least ten times each.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Why and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Because no Spanish list, especially well even even the Criterion
do the right thing, like there's so to me that's
better than college.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
And you know how you can learn. I I listened
to director's comments. I mean you learn just yes for
me real quick. One of the most important things I
ever learned. Curis Sauer, the great Japanese filming Cursaw, was
in New York promoting ron and as journalists, I think
it was a New York Times journalists asked him, mister,

(01:02:50):
mister kurs Sauer, you're consider one of the greatest filmmakers ever,
A master cinema at your age, like eighty five eighty six,
don't quote me. He said, what else can you learn
cinema and curs I was said, there's still a universe
of center for me to learn. When I read that
ship that said the minute you should not stop learning

(01:03:13):
to get dead. That's why I learned. And also Rachimone
is really the foundation where She's gonna have It came
from his film. This film in that film Waschimone. There's
a rape and or murder and several people witness it,
tell their story and lift up to the audience to

(01:03:33):
decide who's telling the trupers. Well, she's gonna have You
have these three men who are who sleep will know,
and they're telling the audience, you know, what they think
about her. So that's where that came from.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Are your n y U classes similar to this, where
you break down your filmography and you tell that the
the mostly mostly other films.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
So I don't want to be just teaking about myself though.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Okay, okay, now, okay, I gotta get schooldays, casting school days.
I just gotta jump to the scene. Now when you
were given the director's commentary on the infamous Uh I
want to be versus the Gigaboo. Well, the fight the
Greek Show show. I mean I was watching it frame

(01:04:20):
by frame, And why did you get the cameras running?

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Because she was good?

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Tell everybody what happened, okay, So basically the legend of
the story. Let's tell okay, So why did you decide
to separate them? But it really finances? Or did you
have a mastermind that okay, this mastermind, I'm sorry to
School Days.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
School Days was the first film. A lot of people, right,
and we can be shooting on location, and I really
want to keep the friction between the two groups. Don't
wanna Bees and Jigaboos because they're young, they're first film.
I didn't want to become too chummy, so I made

(01:05:05):
sure that the Wannabes got a better hotel and the
Jiggiboos got the less hotel. So, right then and there,
that's where friction friction. They know, they didn't know that
they found out the thing. So so the culmination of

(01:05:29):
that friction happened during the Greek Show, the Step Show,
as the fellows are coming on stage. Brandmret the Great
gray BRANDFM ourselves grabs T shirt Camel's head and pushes
to her crotch.

Speaker 7 (01:05:45):
Wow, that's what that's what she did in the scene
when she.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
So when the gamma saw that, then it was on.
So it was not supposed to be a fight. I said, Ernest,
do not turn on that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Point keep rolling at point? Do you know how long
did that fight? That real lass fight last until until
we ran out of sere? You didn't stop it? You
you were scared that they were like, I'm going fucking home.
Did you save it for last or we we.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Did not call the we did not cut off the
camera to the film ran out of the magazine. Wow,
so there was more.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Where in the shooting schedule was that scene like in
the middle.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Of the order? Was there was definite bad blood between
the two groups? Sad?

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
What point did you reveal like, ha ha, okay, this
is what I really did. Guys, Wow, the steel before
they I mean they got regular. But I didn't make
a confession though. Did they buy it once they found
out or they just felt like, oh, you're being a
cheap motherfucker and you like jasmine guy, and no they just.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
It really, I mean your dark skin, I mean you
grow I mean you grew up with ship before you
got before you got cast in the film anyway, you know,
so we just want to play in this whole coloration thing.

Speaker 7 (01:07:15):
Did you write the chance your eyes are blue? But
you a why they did straight?

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Because I think that was teasing Jasmine that that did
that and the gamble you right there, that was I
was a fellas. Wow, that was rand from ourselves. I
think Wow, say went to the.

Speaker 7 (01:07:35):
Side and was like, Yo, this is what we're gonna do. Cama.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
They worked all their steps, They did that stuff themselves.

Speaker 7 (01:07:41):
Can you some of them words?

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Did you come under budget or over budget?

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
I mean we're under budget on that one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Were dealing with Colombia.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
It was Columbia Pictures.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Yes, so dealing with a real uh what do you
call the studio? A real studio?

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
What was there?

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
Because I definitely remember like all Ebony and Jet there
was like, you know, the campus, we disavow ourselves, disassociated.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
I went to Morehouse and after two weeks I'm a
third duration Morehouse man. At the two weeks we got
kicked off campus.

Speaker 7 (01:08:15):
But Clark gave you love.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Clark gave us love, and Morris Brown Spell would never
let us come on camp, of course not.

Speaker 7 (01:08:21):
I'm surprised you're not as you're not.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
And Morris Brown, which is which closed We shot there too.
But here's there's The president of Morehouse's name was Howard
Gloucester and at the I met with him at the
kicked off campus and he was mad at me and
he said, why'd you cast that man as a president
mission college? Joe Seneca And he said, because it looks

(01:08:50):
like a sambo.

Speaker 7 (01:08:51):
Wow wow, And that's when he got the situation. They
got him.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
So everything that we were depicted in the film while
we were making it, that's crazy. He called Joe a sample.

Speaker 7 (01:09:09):
That was a great actor.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
You're laughing too hard.

Speaker 9 (01:09:11):
I don't know what African American history and culture trip
you word that ends.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
But you can't.

Speaker 7 (01:09:28):
You can't always laugh at that word.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Depending on who you will whatever, I want, keep it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
How did they get help you?

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
There's a really good story online about uh Marcus talking
about the struggle that it was to make the butt.
Oh yeah, of which I guess well, because the thing
was it was like the oral history of of of
of the butt, a good article, and I guess the

(01:10:02):
EU guys were sort of like, well, you know, we're
grateful for the single, but you know that wasn't real DC,
Go Go, and we wanted to show you know what,
and Mark was just like, well, you guys just do
twenty minute jams with really no structure and you're based
on other people's material.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Now, yes, she's z She's formerly known as Chocolate City
now Vanilla Swirls. Absolutely it' Rixton in London around the world.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
It has to be said that you know, at least
from a good four or five year films, like very iconic.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Story. But yeah, so true story. The premiere of She's
Having DC and at the part of the nine thirty Club,
ah man and DC excuse me go? And EU was
the band. Wow, why never even heard Go Go in

(01:11:10):
my life? Really? And when I went down, I said, oh, ship, yeah,
And I was still I was writing and She's gonna
I was writing school days at the time. I said, Yo,
we gotta put E, we gotta put EU in the movie.
And so I knew Marcus through Raymond Jones, the late

(01:11:30):
great Raymond Jones, and so crazy thing. I'm a big
I mean the color scene and She's gonna have a
Homeoge Wizard of oz, So I said, we got to
put this part and then I go see Signs of Times.

(01:11:56):
So you based on not at a time came out
this same time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Days, You're right because I opted to see Sign of
the Times before my friend went to go to school.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Days.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
I went to the Sign of the Times and we
told each other about the film. Damn, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
How did you think he must have liked it as too? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
He, I mean he's been doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
He did that twice though.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Yeah, he's been doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Chance, what else I can't remember? No, I mean it's
going to be a beautiful night.

Speaker 7 (01:12:29):
It is that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
And uh, I mean he all throughout eighty six he
was That was his call response thing like in concert
a lot. So he just captured it's going to be
a beautiful night.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Yeah, yo.

Speaker 7 (01:12:40):
Two butt questions. But number one, how long was that
video shoot?

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Was it like one day?

Speaker 7 (01:12:46):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
We shot at Brooklyn Tech.

Speaker 8 (01:12:48):
Ah, And did you know at the time, because me
and my girlfriend were literally just watching this video a
couple of weeks ago, we were like, yeah, we didn't
even realize that they were holding up the red, black
and green flag and shit off the most A lot
of young people don't even know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
I invented that dance the Butt.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
Tell what the title should be?

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
Yes, I had. I said, I want the song to
call the Butt, and we gotta dance my mother's grave.
I told Marcus the name of the song gotta be
the Butt, and we got to dance and he did
the rest.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Wow, Sugar Bear, like that.

Speaker 7 (01:13:22):
My whole song.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
I would have taken production.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Right credit say, you know everyone else did and they
didn't even write overduce.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
So you play that part today, still get down, It
still works. It still works. Eight. I have a school
Day's question.

Speaker 6 (01:13:41):
Yes, so I understand that there was a little tension
between you and Tsha Campbell's mother.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
Oh yeah, did that ever get resolved.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Since?

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
Or no? During the filming of School Days? Okay? Oh
yeah yeah. It was the song won't Belong Tonight? We
should be the it was cold, but she said had
to be teaching Kimbell. She said she'd be the Raise,
and she said it should be teaching Campbell and the Raise.

Speaker 7 (01:14:07):
So oh that was her brief. I thought she's met
her daughter. Had to lick somebody's part, so she.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Just, hey, I swear to God, teacher Kimble walk through
them now. She would curse every time. She was like,
hate you spiking even today. I mean you came out
eighty eight. Okay did she left out?

Speaker 7 (01:14:29):
How you know that?

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
I will say that, like, good, go ahead. I mean, second,
I don't throw the purple away your love scenes in
your film.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
There's the reason why. Teaching Campbell. She wouldn't do a
sex scene, so that was.

Speaker 7 (01:14:50):
The sexy she was gonna get.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
So I had to come on, I have to think
of something freaky. So I said, well, you gotta increase
in his head. Guy, she would not do a love
scene more than that woman, So I said, all right,

(01:15:12):
and you gotta lick the part big brother on my
teeth that that even made it worse.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
I will tell you though, that's like, that's yeah, upside
down Spider Man for black people. The cat.

Speaker 7 (01:15:40):
Again that Rachel's sex scene was also nice with mother
on my tea.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
It was beautiful.

Speaker 7 (01:15:46):
In my head, the one rad Rachel.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
Oh yeah, yeah, Steve, you wanted my man Keith John
keep the song only can be me?

Speaker 7 (01:15:57):
Oh that song right there?

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
You know, Stevie's saying my wedding, my wife and I
really as she walked about that show, we're still married.
To beside Church.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
All right, we had another moment, we had another vote.
Now you keep John back on on do the right thing?
Why don't we try joint? I love that record. All Right,
let's let's move. Maybe we'll get to six movies by
the should also.

Speaker 8 (01:16:34):
Note with that the first time Ozzie Davis was introduced
into Coach Oldham. Okay, I just because then I want
I'm getting because the crew start accumulating.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
Yes, I'm sure we'll have a lot of regret regret questions.
Come on, why didn't we ask, okay, do the right thing?
That's a perfect First of all, thank you Spike, because okay, okay,
I hate being that guy that can predict his own question.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
We had the crystal Ball in that film we talked
about global warming. I mean I was gonna say I
showed I showed that. I showed that movie to my son,
my eleven year Rold.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
This was like literally like a month ago because it
because when that came out, I was I think I'm
the same age. I was like ten, so he's eleven.
So I was like, I'm gonna show you this movie.
That movie the thing and the thing I've always liked
about all your stuff. I saw him as a kid,
and it's like it's one thing, but seeing it as
an adult has a completely different meaning. And I would

(01:17:38):
say that Do the Right Thing is one movie where
it is almost more relevant now than it was when
it came out. And I mean even like and the
thing that I thought was so brilliant about it even
watching it, you know now is like it is a
because I watched it and I made him write an
essay and simple the only question was.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Yeah. So the question was you know, do you think
Mooki did the right thing?

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
And there is no right or wrong answer to that question,
like you could argue it a million different ways.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
And well to answer your question, though, thank you for
showing your son at the early age, at that age
the film. But no black person has ever asked me
why didn't throw the garbage can through the window? Only
white people ask you question. Not one single black person
ever asked me why did MOOKI throw the garbage can

(01:18:32):
through the window.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
As matter of fact, I still pay Bill, still pay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
Steve that way.

Speaker 7 (01:18:49):
Was this movie the first time did you had people
in mind for characters or did it still just know
I had?

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
I mean the film Messenger, which Buckle never happened was
supposed to start John Carlo and Fishburn. So I mean
I knew had to put in a film after the success.

Speaker 7 (01:19:13):
Because I think about Fishburn.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Turned down the roll right around him. He didn't want
to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
Whoa wow, he said, no, I can't like I'm shooting
the King of New York or I don't like it
like the role.

Speaker 7 (01:19:26):
Bill noun Size made it like yeah, he definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
What was it true that Danny A Yellow didn't want
to take pictus with Chuck d for Press? I never heard, okay,
I never heard that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
For DeNiro, I wanted Rob Darrel do what he didn't
want to do it. Wow, But it turned out, yeah,
it would have been. Here's the thing though, with The
Narrow when the greatest acts ever, But what it would
have tipped the scale would have been the Robber of
the Narrow movie instead of an ensemble piece.

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
So okay for starters as and I was saying that
I hate the fact that I can predict all these
episodes the Quest Love Supreme, because I can't go an
episode without mentioning Soul Train.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
And my.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
My nowsable wisdom of it. But you know, for the longest,
I never knew what Rosie Perez's name was, wow, because
I mean, you know, they don't give the names of she.
I mean she did a scramble board once. But you know,
I didn't realize that until like muchs later, like four
or five years ago, that oh, there's Rosie Perez. So

(01:20:37):
just for the longest, it was like me and my
best friend in school was like our girl because even
on Soul Train, she was a star, and it wasn't
like growing into puberty or whatever, like oh my god,
who's this woman?

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Dan?

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
It's just that she stuck out.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Literally, I got a story.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
More than so how did you discuss?

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Ever, there's two stories, Rosie story. My story is the
real one Rosie. So again, it comes back to school days.
School Days is a hit, mm hmm. The butt is
number one song R and b M. So I'm having

(01:21:20):
a birthday party in l A. I forgot funky It
was named that club Funky Something. Anyway, I'm holding you
guys anyway. So the club is called Funky Something and

(01:21:44):
Eu we fly EU to LA for the party, and
so we had a butt contest, but dance contests. And
this woman is on the speaker dancing role. She says
that she was screaming saying that this is sex and

(01:22:05):
someone else, but that she was dancing. Mm hmm. She
wasn't doing that stuff is just the truth. And so
I tell security to get this lady off the speaker
because she's gonna fall and break her neck. Okay, so
bring her down, and she starts to curse me out.

(01:22:26):
I've never heard this. I knew she was Puerto Rican,
but the way I heard the way that I never
everybody speak, like to poor my motherfucking life, right, So
I said, where you're from. It's just Brooklyn, So I'm
from Brooklyn. Said where you're from? I said what neighbor
was just for I live for Green and I was
writing do the Right Thing at the time, and that moment,

(01:22:50):
I said, I'm gonna make Mookie's girl from Puerto Rican. Mhm.

Speaker 6 (01:22:55):
At that point, at that point, did you know you
were gonna put Mookie? Oh yeah, okay, yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
I knew, but I said she has to be. I mean,
she had the audition, but I still knew that that
she was going to be played Mookie's girlfriend Tina. That's
the real story that a star was born. I knew
that I knew that she was gonna be great in
this role. I did not. I cannot predict that. I

(01:23:26):
knew that she would be great as Mookie's girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
But at that point, you didn't say, like, oh, this
is an Oscar caliber actress and she's made for herself.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
And we never talked about oscars. That's not the I mean,
we don't talk about that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Well, not that, but when you see new talent that
but I don't And a lot of times the first
films are yours.

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
But I don't say she's going an Oscar. I don't
do that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
So do you direct? Like, are you the director that will?

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
I know some what's his name? Who directed seven? And
uh David fin So Fincher, especially on House of Car.
Like his episode of House of Cars, he's been known
to do fifteen sixteen seventeen takes, no, no, no, knowing
that the last three are finally going to be what
he wants.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
That seventy seventy eighty takes.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
For you No, no, oh, yeah, I've heard that. Yeah,
he'll he'll spend fifteen seventeen hours.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
First of all, I don't have I never had the
budget to do that. We gotta go.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
Okay, and he doesn't need I mean, so you're saying
that riot scene was shot in one shot. You had
one shot to just know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
It was like two nights we had. You had the riot,
then you had excuse me, you had the when the
fire trucks come in, the war stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
So for something that tense, especially when you are with
multiple cameras and that sort of thing, I know, there's
a moment where it's like, you know, fuck you okay
cut and then like okay, so everything's and like characters
break now. For Carlo, Esposito said that because of the.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
Teach me.

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
Gean Carlo, Okay, take two, keep it San Carlos Gian
Carlo Esposito. So he he mentioned that during the filming
that him and Danny did some bonding because of their
Italian connection, talk to each other Italian, his.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
His, his father's Italian right, and then there was America.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
There was a scene well during that scene, uh, where
the radio gets beat and finally you know, yeah, I
think initially Danny decided to curse amount in Italian and
said something to Sean Carlo that really just infuriated him.

(01:26:02):
And even when you yelled cut, he was just like that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
That ain't that. I never heard that story. But I
will tell you is that there were certain words that
people didn't want to say, and so we had when
when John the scene where Danny has the bat and
the close of him, Jean Carlo and Bill Numb were

(01:26:28):
standing on the side of the camera and they were,
you know, going exchanging and when Jean Carlo called him
a fat guinea bastard, that's when Danny exploded.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
Oh so was Danny that was upset. He was upset,
but he just don't liked me called the fat guinea bastard.
And the fact that it wasn't in the script. Oh,
I mean, that's just.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
That you're off script by then you just just go,
you know, just say the worst things you could say.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
So you have a lot of offscript moments. So in
your screen places, it's just like, you know, we'll improvise.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
No, you don't write improvised, but you know that it
comes to rehearsal, you start you see where we can
improvise there. So here's the thing, though, not everybody can improvise,
so you have to know who can do it who can't,
and you work on improvisation improvisation during the rehearsal and
heated moments, people gonna get off script because it's really

(01:27:27):
emotional and you're not really worried about it. This exact
exact words that are that are scripted.

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
But if it okay, so at the table read through,
are they.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
As heated as it will be? Because I don't want
my does that worry you like this is to me?
I don't want to act and read through. I just
want to hear the words. I tell nobody act, just
read the words. Because except for auditions, where when you

(01:27:57):
when you audition people only getting you're not dition the
whole film. You're just different scenes. So if the read
through is the first time you get to hear the words,
it is entirely there's a strange phenomenon. Reading the script
is not the same as actors saying the word. And
so many times you might think that you wrote something

(01:28:18):
that's good, but an act of reads it's like, oh shit,
I gotta change that. So during my read through, I'm rewriting.
I might gotta keep up because like, well I'm crossing
it out. We gotta change the gotta change that, gotta
changes this How.

Speaker 7 (01:28:30):
Good of an Improverson was Robin Harris.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
Here's the thing. Robin was at this I forgot the
name of the club, but Robbie Reid told me again
the Castle. Nerec said, you gotta see this guy, Robin
la So this club the club. To go to the
the to go to the bathroom, you had to go
up the stairs next to the stage. In the back

(01:29:02):
of the club. In the back of the club, Robin
Harris had a guy with a spotlight. He was he
would like this snapper's fingers a point. And I was
there one night. Robin Harris tore Mike Tyson. This Mike
Tys was, I mean, you read a piece of your pants.

(01:29:29):
Have to walk past Robin on the stage to go
to the back. I mean, no better blues. I know
we're jumping ahead. And even if you weren't working, if
you acting working that day, but you saw Robin Harris
was on the claw sheet, you you would come. You
will be there, he would. I remember he told Denzel,

(01:29:52):
he said, Denzel your he looks like a question mark.

Speaker 8 (01:29:59):
I mean, I'm making that whole scene when they at
the after party and he just fucking with everybody like
you know, the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
I mean, I mean, he he, oh, man is a
great great laws Let not catch a nigga O. Those
are old ad libs. I mean people like that. You
just gotta let him go. It's like that's like Jordan's
get green Light, green Light.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
So by this point, when you're established, are you putting
pressure on Robbie to find you the next unused gym
in town? Like is she going to theaters?

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
It wasn't pressure because we always stashed away a couple
of rolls.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
But are they you know, does does Martin Lawrence know,
Oh there's an audition for Do the Right Thing?

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Or is it Robbie found Robbie. Do the Right Thing
was Rody Preis's first film, Rob Harris first film, Lawrence
first film. Rob Robbie found me. I didn't know these people.
I know, I mean I found Rosie, but the other
people I didn't know.

Speaker 4 (01:31:01):
Ye.

Speaker 8 (01:31:01):
Also, as you're building your actors squad, it seems like
it's harder and harder to get to get for other
actors to get in right because like by now you
said you already had Gean Carlo, you already had Bill Nunn,
you already.

Speaker 2 (01:31:10):
Had John de Tururo.

Speaker 7 (01:31:15):
Can we talk about the tutoral relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
Well, I was gonna go there, Like how hard is
it for your white actors too, especially especially in Jungle Fever?
How they were at the silva shop?

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
Like how?

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
And and I know about the controversy of better blues
you portraying the club owner.

Speaker 2 (01:31:39):
More Josh Flappers played by Nick and John de Tururo.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
Yes, how to write that down?

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
Don't to get it? So I want to talk about that?

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
No, No, that's the thing. It's like, how do you
convey to them what the character is without saying like, okay,
well you're going to be the villain or you know,
play it to the hilt, or like, I mean, how do.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
You Here's the thing though, the white actors that I've
worked with a great human beings. These are people artists
and understand that their history, and they're cool plant it
because it's not like we're making it up.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
But was there ever any indifference to or not indifference
or objections to Okay, well you know who who?

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Where'd you find that? What a waste? Guys?

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
The two cops, the cops that killed Radio that were
also in Fever?

Speaker 2 (01:32:40):
What one is Dannie little Son?

Speaker 7 (01:32:43):
Which one?

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
The one is not Hispanic taller one. Oh what a waste.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
That guy's Fender one.

Speaker 2 (01:32:49):
What's his name? I knew it, Miguel Sandoval. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
I was gonna say, if you knew that name, this
whole show would just be the cost No.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
The taller one, like the red one hair. That's Daniel's son, Rick,
He's the one that yeah, oh man. But here's the thing, though,
is that people dig my work. They understand it, and
then they're they're they're great parts. In fact, John de

(01:33:20):
Turroll used to say, you know, Spike Man, I don't
know when it's when before the film came out, A
said Spike Man, I ride the.

Speaker 10 (01:33:26):
Subway, would Spike the brothers come up to me, give
me that. They say, yo yo yo, yo yo, soy
they love the turle Yo.

Speaker 7 (01:33:37):
You messed it up so good. I don't know what
they are. I was like, wait, are you Jewish? Are
you Italian? I eat it too. I'm like, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
But here's the thing though, When mo better claim came out,
I was accused of being anti su the Jewish Defense League.
Uh aighty l. So my lawyer at the time he
told me, he said, Spike, this serious, this is this

(01:34:05):
is the truth. He said, Spike, if you want to
continue to work in Hollywood, you have to write an
op ed piece for the New York Times saying why
you're not Semitic. I know it's not fair, wow, but
you want to continue to work in this industry? And
I wrote it? You could google it. Oh.

Speaker 7 (01:34:24):
I wish we had that kind of protection.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Google it. I had. He's you know, he was Jewish.
He died, but he said, Spike, you know you're a
great filmmaker. I care for you. But if you don't
write this op ed piece saying you're not anti Semitic,
then you're done. You're done. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
Wait, done. I'm forgetting the most important character and to
the right thing. It's the song, fight the power, right, Yeah,
I'm about to move on.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
How did you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:59):
You know, like when you're growing up in the era
and you just hear great music all the time, like
you think of like a cat like Prince will just
you know, eat breathing shit, great songs and hits. But
now that I realized that it takes a craft and
and and and really a steady hand to do perfection
getting I mean asking a group to give you an anthem,

(01:35:26):
I mean that's some that's some hard ass shit to do.
And what's weird is that I guess later years when
I've heard outtakes from songs that didn't make Nation of millions,
and you know there's like five or six or seven
other Public Enemy related joints.

Speaker 2 (01:35:44):
That where where can I hear those? Where does he
get his stuff? He's hearing ship like me?

Speaker 1 (01:35:54):
Look, man, by this point, everyone knows that I'm the student.
Like if I came off as a seisty guy that
just you know, I'm leak the shit online and bootleg
that shiit no one.

Speaker 2 (01:36:05):
Look, that's just a testament to people know that I
just generally want to know stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
And yeah, suit, you're a student of the music, I'll
share with you. Bill, I'm sorry I didn't know anyway.
So the point is that when I heard the other songs,
I was like wow, Like okay, So Public Enemy did
have some misses, the greatest missus, right, they had some
missus with their with their hits, the songs that really
resonated and the songs that were like Hm, okay, I'm

(01:36:31):
glad they kept this off the record.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
Yeah, but you could do it with any record, can't.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
Yeah, but I'm now I'm just saying that the the
the I mean the likelihood of them having five major
life changing songs in a row is some rare ship, right,
And the fourth one of their you know, of their
of their canon being fight the Power, well revel without

(01:36:56):
a pause to.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
Me, bring the noise.

Speaker 1 (01:36:58):
Uh, don't believe or don't believe it was necessary. I
feel like bass heads.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
I feel like bass Heads.

Speaker 1 (01:37:05):
Is just insane. At the time that it came out,
it was just unlike anything we ever heard before. Uh.
Then the fourth being Fight the Power and the last
being uh uh welcome to the territor tardo. Okay, So
when how many songs did they submit? Did they submit
other songs that they just said, like, this is your song.

Speaker 2 (01:37:24):
Well, here's a story. Hit me. I knew. I knew
that I need anthem because every script, every time Raid
Raheem appears on screen, he's gonna have a song blasting
mm hmm. So every time you see a song be blasting,
so that shit gotta be hitting and knowing to tone.

(01:37:48):
I knew it had to be public enemy. So the
first Fight the Power was the second submission. Aha, there
we go. Have we heard the first one? No, I
don't I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
You didn't want to play it safe in the summer
of eighty eight, like and be like, okay, rebel without
a pause, We'll just stick to this story.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
And I wanted a new song and the first one
wasn't hitting, wasn't it. But it wasn't their fault because
we didn't. We didn't. We weren't at a point where
we could show them the film. Okay, so earlier they

(01:38:30):
saw a film, Yeah, they didn't see anything. I just
I just did have a script. I guess ended Bill Stepney. Okay,
because Bill Stepaney living Ford Green. So I called him up,
got my bike, rode four or five blocks. Here's the script. Boom.
He he knows that he remembers more of the story
than anybody, Bill Stepney, So you try to get him
his his his saying it. But but the second But

(01:38:53):
we got to a point where we could show him something.
I don't know, we show him a clip or a
whole film. But once they saw that, Hank Shockley them, guys, do.

Speaker 1 (01:39:03):
You remember what your place song was that you use placeholder?
Your placeholder song, yeah, that you used before you got
the I.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
Mean like what you call timp music. We have it, Okay,
we have any temp music? Oh so, because I knew
that there's a thing called temp love. That's so I

(01:39:31):
don't want I don't want to contaminate my I mean,
I knew his music is I didn't have to fake it.
When I heard fight for the first time, what was that? Like, man,
I said, thank you Jesus, because this was the whole

(01:39:53):
it's summed up the whole motherfucking movie.

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
And he asked for none of this. Didn't asked for Elvis,
John Wayne, none of that ship like you just not
nothing to do with that. Did you name the song
and say I need a song called fight the power?
They got that from brothers, But I just all I
said was I need an anthem. That's a tall order spike.

Speaker 2 (01:40:17):
And that's why with the public X.

Speaker 1 (01:40:27):
Okay, the the pizzeria that burnt down, the fire, which
I assume that you burnt it down for real, how
did y'all control that since you weren't on a studio, Like,
what's not that from.

Speaker 2 (01:40:41):
Spreading to the fire departments there?

Speaker 1 (01:40:46):
But the fire department that was Were they the actual
fire department? That's weird, okay, But that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:58):
That song, I mean sometimes I don't even I can't even.
Can you imagine Do the Right Thing with the fight,
the power. It's not the same movie. It's not the
same another character in the movie. It's a movie, I mean,
but that it was a gift. It's a gift from God.

(01:41:21):
That's that's all. I mean. You you should ask Chuck
and those guys you know, but their their their version. Eventually,
I'll get to that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
Yeah, Spike's film inspired Do the Right Thing inspired uh,
the song that was originally the Roots before Scott Stortch
gave it to his girlfriend Little Kim, the song that
will eventually be Lighters Up.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:41:48):
Well, when we got to the studio, Do the Right
Thing was on television, and uh, Samuel Jackson was senior
ladder Love Daddy, and he was doing roll Call. And
when I heard that drum by the time, I said,
I want to remake that sit and so I remade
it and my father, see Scott Storch, I remade made

(01:42:17):
and Scott did the piano and then here's here's the
crazy ship toik stay by to write the first verse.
This is going to be like the first thing off
tipping point.

Speaker 2 (01:42:28):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
And then Scott was like We're going to somebody's birthday party.
I didn't realize it that night is when I had.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
Dinner with O. J. Simpson.

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
Long story of that night, and that was the first
time literally we made that beat. And then we went
to some friends of ours, uh birthday party, and and
OJ and Buster the Rhymes and me and Scott Stort
sitting at the small small kids take Thanksgiving. It was

(01:43:01):
very and we were like the four black people there,
so we just sat at the small table. All I
got with that night was that he he said that
that you know the way that the rappers, uh, the
way that Bob Dylan Uh. And was it Patty Smith,

(01:43:23):
you know Champion Hurricane Carter. Yeah, that us with us
rappers need to get the sentence Champion. Yes, very surreal night. Anyway,
Thank you, Spike ladies and gentlemen. I hope you enjoyed

(01:43:45):
that encore presentation of a Spike Lee's interview on QLs Classic.

Speaker 2 (01:43:50):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:43:50):
Stay tuned for next go round when we ask more
questions about his history behind the count Spike Lee Part
two come out next QLs Classic. What's Love Supreme is
a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
The team at Pandora.

Speaker 1 (01:44:13):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.