QLS Classic: Spike Lee (Part 1)

In part 1 of 2, director, producer, writer and actor Spike Lee talks about growing up in pre-gentrified Brooklyn, his first Super 8 camera and why his films are more relevant today than ever.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to QLs Classic Episode forty seven
with the Great Spike Lee August two thousand seventeen. UH
side note, our guest today deserves credit at least for

(00:21):
inspiring the Suprema roll call theme song on our beloved show.
Besides that, Spike Lee is a provocateur, a visionary of storytelling,
great hustling, eccentric soul. This episode came slightly before his
Oscar victory for Black Klansmen in two thousand nineteen. But
don't worry. We get it all out, all of his journeys,
all of our favorite movies. We get to ask him

(00:43):
everything right here on QLs Classic with the Great Spike Lee.
It's gonna be really awkward. Oh my god, supremo role
called subprimams laughing, Suprema su prima roll call, Suprema southing

(01:10):
suremo role. So I'm just gonna sit here, yeah and
have the call. Yeah, I'm prea spike don't suit me. Yeah,
we're stealing his song roll call, sub Frema roll call,
sub Fremau some sub Frema roll call. My name is Fante, Yeah,
dropping these flows, yeah, because I smacking my heart Frema

(01:39):
road Camma some Suprema rock. My name is Sugar, yeah,
the inside man. Yeah, I've been with the roots. Yeah
since the bamboozl Fan Sma roll call, just some sub
Frema roll call. My three once was yeah boss Bill's

(02:02):
teen hero. Yeah, but directing skills, yeah, I had almost
heero roremaremo role. I want to let you know I'm
not just for show. Yeah, will you let me go?
Oh God, give explain that after the reason roll call.

(02:32):
My name is Spike, yeah, with a nickname. My mother said, yeah,
I was out of this world roll so Frema Frema
roll fremo role um. Yeah. One person. I'm not just

(03:03):
sure what days because her timing because she's you know, okay,
now I hear the song. Everybody out there. I recognized
the song either did you recognize before I even introduce you,

(03:30):
Spike Lee? Uh, he just did. What is the history
behind uh your road call? Like that? Heard that at
more House? Oh so that's how didn't make that up?
Isn't it like a three day? So we just righting,

(03:50):
just going to school. More House they had a rod
call and we just incorporate into a school days and
do it again. Did it again when he got game?
So that was in school days. It wasn't because I
first heard and get on the bus on school days too. Yeah,

(04:12):
I gotta watch it the gam mites really when I
first get in and when the first come on and
they walked down up. Yeah, the ga Mites. Oh, I
gotta watch it again. Ok wow, well three times. Okay,
ladies and gentlemen, this is another episode of quest Lip Supreme.

(04:33):
Uh introducing the fam This is uh damn I really
wish uh Fontigelo. Uh who who was the the the
bus driver of get on the bus? And Uh to
my right, we have a sugar Steve who was one
of the thugs um in in Summer of sam that's

(04:56):
what's up y? Yeah? Yeah, what's your last what's your
last name? No, at the end of the vowel, I
was around back then, but there I didn't do it.
I actually actually I have a similar last name to
the guy who did do it. Okay, damn uh yeah,

(05:21):
and uh boss builds in my left eagle sandwich. Oh,
he was one of the cornermen and do the right thing.
I was going to ask to be Bob Regular from
Girls six Bob Regular. No, okay anyway. Uh, and we
have Fresh from Crookland. Ok yeah, she was a girl
making out with Frante was also in Crookland. Y'all were

(05:43):
making out with each other in the in the until
the beginning. I keep no Taki Joe Cuba. Yes, finally, Uh,

(06:07):
It's it's taken some time, but I will say that,
at least for me personally, and maybe I speak for
most of the inhabitants of this room, that we we
have the director of our particular generation with us right now.
Thank you very much, Mr Spike Sheldon Lee New Yorker

(06:31):
kilm Our tour, political activists and and and great human being.
How how are you so? I'm good, I'm glad to
be here. And we're an Electric Lady studio, so this
is very historical. Yes we I'm sorry I've not been
given Electric Lady their props. We're live in studio a

(06:53):
where many a classic has been born. A lot of
great spirits in here were all right now. You can
feel it walking the door. You could feel the spirits. Well, Spike,
I know when when Spike agreed to do this He
was like, so it's like like forty five minutes. I
was like no. He was like, all right, so now right.
I was like no, Spike ninety I tried to hint.

(07:13):
I was like, well, in the Jimmy jamm episode it
was seven hours. Was like, namuck, So I'm good. We
have to let me go. Oh ship, you don't mean that.
You don't mean that. Let me lean back. So I'm

(07:36):
gonna because we're we we have so much questions about
your work body of work. Yes for thirty years. Yeah, um,
you were born where in Atlanta, Georgia? In Atlanta, Georgia, right, really?
I thought you were born in New York. No, uh,
I was born in Atlanta, Georgia, and my parents moved

(07:57):
to Brooklyn. We moved to Krown Heights when I was
like two years old. Moved from Crown Heights during the
First Black Family. Cobble Hill. Wow, that's where all my
time American thing comes back back then the cobble Hills
of Stone Italian American. And then my mother says, time
of paint and rents. We bought a brown Stone and
four green for forty five thou dollars. How is that possible?

(08:22):
What was that like pre gentification. In fact, the realtors
wouldn't even list for Green, it would say downtown Vicinity.
So it's really been a trip that you grow up
in four Green, predominant black and Puerto Rican school's no
good garbage, never picked up, cops on around, and those
things aren't like that anymore with the change, and they're

(08:46):
not just cleaned up. Public schools are great on the
cops or around. I was trying to explain to my
New York daddy what Dumble was today. He was like,
what I don't know, do under Manhattan Bridge that son
for For the films that you've shot in Brooklyn neighborhoods,
how different are they now? Like they Do the Right

(09:07):
Thing block? Like what is that now? Is that like attainable?
It was gentified? So no more black families, no more brown,
but gentified. I mean Do the Right Thing, which was
shot in Bedstide dood Died Bethistuveson. But the great thing
about that New York City that block we shot on,
we shot do on Thing at one block. The summer,

(09:30):
that block has been renamed do the Right Thing Way
as the first time a movie, a song we've ever
been just named the name after that, so we take queer.
And that's also where we have our Michael Jackson block
parties too, on the same block. So is that the
black wherever is it the office? And it's the office

(09:50):
is further down downtown. You know my office in Fort Green? Okay?
So okay, that's not yet. And the place where you
when I visited your first store, like back in, is
that still up. That's called Chez paul Lett. Okay, But
that's the new name of the block or the new name.

(10:14):
It's a restaurant. But my office is on South Ox
South Elliott. Where the restaurant is is where the original
Spice Joint was, Okay, and I own that building too.
And so when we did Jungle Fever, that's where Halle Berry.
We're gonna put a plaque there where she stayed. Wow. Wait,
that's the scene where there's no scene, And that's that's

(10:37):
just where she while she while she was shooting the film.
Oh damn, Okay, that's not what scene was up. Let's
Caliberry's first film too, Jungle Fever, And did she really
not shower for all those days? And the story wait
wait wait wait, let's get to that. We could do

(10:59):
it now? She Uh, Robbie Reid cast that film, and
so she brought it. Halle Berry came in five times
m hm, and the role is viving the two lot
crack hope. And the first four times she was us

(11:20):
to fun. Finally something must have told her, you can't
kind of look like this. So she I think she
didn't bathe for a week and I didn't recognize when
she stepped in the room and that's how she got
the park. Wow, I just did not see her. Finally,
she was the opposite. I did not see it as

(11:42):
as being a two dollar crack hole. She had an
awesome she didn't she? So why I mean at a
time where um were the seventies and the word mobility
and you know a lot of our uh you know
the way that black people expressed themselves creatively, usually through

(12:06):
sports or singing. Right, why did you choose visuals? Why
did you choose I mean, was it that you had
a childhoo experience where you saw like Gordon Park Works
And wasn't it When people ask that question a lot
and I just say, a film chose me. I grew
up in a very artistic background. My mother taught us

(12:29):
great High School Brooklyn Heights called St. Anne's. She taught
black literature. My father is a great jazz musician, composibility,
and I just grew up in the very artistic household.
My mother had the vision, not that she we're gonna
be artists, but she exposed us, just not just me,

(12:49):
but all my siblings to the arts. So she was
dragging me the Broadway plays museums while I was you know,
and I didn't want to go. We went kicking and screaming.
Every single time we came home. We we would think
it because that was that was fun. Well, you're going
to going to play It's like my mother's one. It

(13:10):
introduced me to Martin Squorsesey. She took me to see
mean streets. My father hated movies, I mean love sports.
So my love of sports comes to my father, my
love movies comes to my mother. I was my mother's
movie date. I was gonna ask, how how is one
film buff before the age of the remote control the

(13:33):
rewind button. Uh yeah, And just because they had you know,
we I forgot the word from what we had did
as that showed old films. So even back in the seventies,
they would still show oh yeah, yeah, I mean it was.
But was it film? You are like now, in the weekends,

(13:53):
I know eleven or twelve movie theaters in New York
that will show I mean, it's not something hotter, so
it had the st mark. I'm forgetting the theaters, but
they were certain theaters. That's all they showed was old films.
And that's the only where. I mean, this is room
before DHS. So I mean unless you stayed that, you know,

(14:14):
watched with the commercials on challenge che Levin. He went
to these retrospective theaters, but was there film are on
the level of like, now, you know, I'll buy all
the Criterion collections stuff and watch the you know, like
what was that for you? Like what was the director's
commentary for you? I mean it really seduced you into

(14:36):
But it wasn't like that. I mean I went to films,
but I was not a film buff. I didn't want
to be a filmmaker. I wanted to play a second
second base for New York Mets. But genetics conspired against
that second baseman. I didn't have a stone up for
short stop, but I only played softball. But but here

(14:56):
here's the story though, And I said to many times.
Maybe audience hasn't heard it. I went to Morehouse because
I had to go to Morehouse. My father and grandfather
went to more House, and my mother and grandma went
the Spellman across the street, some educated Negroes. My father,

(15:16):
my father was a fresh and Morehouse. Dr King was
a senior Morehouse and Dr King's son Mark the thirty
and our classmates were in the class seventy nine and
Morehouse also with J. Johnson has to be ahead of
home security, which we all class surdy nine and Morehouse.
So my first two years in Morehouse, I was a

(15:37):
D plus C minors student. It was because I was
a smart I just was not motivated. And right before
it's time to go back to New York, back to Brooklyn,
at the end of myself with me, my advisor told
me that had to choose a major. I said why,
and she said, because you've exhausted all the electives. So

(16:02):
I can't. This is now, this is this key, this
is this historical because it's twenty years now, It's like
it's a very important summer twenty years ago, summer seventy seven.
So I came back to New York and New York
City was broke. You couldn't get a job. Usually, you know,
you get a job in a summer. Your newest New
York City was broke. And it's a famous daily news

(16:22):
front page. It said Ford, this city drop dead, Ford
being president Ford. So I had nothing to do all summer,
and I don't want to, you know, sitting in stupid
and place dratmatic baseball, you know. And so I have
a very good friend. The name is Vietta John says.
She was always smart. The top three height, the top
three public high schools New York City or Stuyveson, Bronx Science,

(16:45):
Brooklyn Tech. And so you could take a test depend
on your grade. The Terriostven's first ron Science, then Brooklyn Tech.
Brooklyn Tech is on the same block where where of
course street direct course street from Spikes Joint, on a
block from my office. Now for you, because on the
mule anybody went, don't be at this house. She's always
smart and went to Stuyverson, went to Prince's undergrad Harvard

(17:11):
Med's school. She always we always, she always knew she
was gonna be a doctor. So so one day, and
looking back on this, I understand it was not luck
it was a spirit. The spirit told me to go
see yet of that day because I wasn't doing a
damn ship to do. That goes to be at a
She lived on her lived on Ashton Place where University
Towers is right across the street from l I U

(17:33):
where the field is. And so we're sitting in a
living room. It is the box in the corner. I say,
what is that box? He said, that's Super eight camera.
You can have it. WHOA. And then I say, what's
another box? She says, stupid, that's the box. That's the
that's the cartridge for the Super eight film for the camera.

(17:56):
She says, you don't. I don't need this. I'm gonna
be I'm you know, um, I'm gonna be a doctor.
This is his sister. She's she's a doctor in Chicago. Now,
so now I had something to do. So the entire
summer nineteen seventy seven, so I didn't have a job.
I ran around New York City with the Super eight camera.

(18:19):
It was also one of the hottest summers on record.
That's why there was a blackout. When Kan hasn't funked up,
Black folks Puertoricus lost their mind. Gluten like mother, I
was feeling it, filmed it on, filmed it on on

(18:39):
Fulter Street in Brooklyn. Also, seventy seven was the first
summer disco, so all the DJs were hooking up there.
The wheels are still and to the turn to the
in the terrible speakers, the street lamps, so I was
still on the block parties, the dances a hustle. Also

(19:01):
the film from the documentary, Yeah, yeah, that's where the
footage comes from. So then we had this maniac called
psycho David Berkowitz. Steve. Here's the thing that people forget
about that summer. Black and Puerto Rican people were not

(19:24):
scared of David Berkowitz because this is this is before Gentification,
and the motherfucker David Burke was to come into Harlem,
to come to South Bronx, to come the best side
door die, he would have been killed. And it's not
I'm not making fun of us because people lost loved ones.

(19:46):
But the fact remains Black people Porterbrincos not. We weren't
worried about Son of Sam. So I had this footage,
came back to school in the fall and declared my
major as communications. But Marston had that major, took the
class from Majors across the street to Clark College Masterfications, Film, TV, radio,

(20:11):
print journalism. I forget what other thing is. And there's
a teacher there. He's still teaching that. His name is
Professor Herbert Eichelberger. Yes, Dr Eichelberg. I went to Clark
you the Clark Radio TV film. Dr Eichelberger was are
you see are you senter? So he doctor her Bike
was still teaching there. He's the one they encouraged me

(20:33):
to be a filmmaker. He's went. When I talking about
this foote I had. I took the footage back to
the Atlanta That's what morals says, but I didn't know
what I was gonna do with it. He encouraged me
to make a documentary. That document turned out to be
Last Hustle in Brooklyn. And there are many times so
her Dr Eichelberger called Dr e. He had the key

(20:56):
to the film lab and two or three times a
week he would stay three four hours so I could
work on the film. He wasn't getting paid over time either, right,
And maybe you guys were experiences. In my experience, I've
talked a lot of people, and anybody talks about that

(21:16):
one teacher they had that saw something in you. Do
you even see it? Hurt? Eichelberg was when he says,
he said, you know what, I started to think about
the h all this stuff. Then it came back in
your full circle. My mother's started was taking me the movies.
I remember my mother taking me. It's his son and

(21:38):
see motherfucking by Bye Bertie and the opening No people
noticed the opening credit sequence or do the right thing
comes from Bye Bye Bie, Margaret that's where she came from.
Rosie Panz comes from, and Margaret as Athough and Margaret
she does, that's where it came from. So all these

(22:00):
things that happened started to spring up again. But my mother,
God blessed her soul. If you saw crookly know, you
know my mother died while it was the stopol Morehouse.
All these things she planted, you know, bore fruit many
many years later. But I did not want to be
a filmmaker. That just didn't happen, you know, Speaking of circles,
I just want to mention real quick, in a strange circle.

(22:20):
By the time I went to Clark, I believe what
Bill Nunn was a teacher at Clark Atlanta. I just
wanted to when he rest rest in peace. So Bill
Nunn and Sam Jackson morehouse men. But they had graduated
before me, but they were still in Atlanta doing local
theater and that's where I met them. They are a
couple of years ahead of me. So can I ask
what is I mean now? In my mind? Like Atlanta

(22:44):
culture became cool mid the late eighties, especially with music
migration and people coming down there. But what was Atlanta like? Like?
Were you rolling your eyes up in there? Like was
anything cooler than New York? Like New York? And I

(23:05):
can speak with authority if you were if you were
from New York and you went down south. All of
these motherfucker's were Bamas Florio has Bamas, and we were
very arrogant. I understand now they hated us so that
we get people from New York that confrontation, seeing that

(23:26):
the KMFC in school days was like a real that
was typical of well, that really was a New York thing.
That's more like college students, the local yokels versus the
real too. Here's the thing though, because it's called they
called the butter milk the buttermilk bottom. So like even

(23:47):
us seasonal hood yales in southern cow is in the
hood yales in the hood. So you had these oasis
in Columbia before they brought up all motherfucking Harlem not
so hot either. These real estate motherfuckers they're trying, you know,

(24:08):
they're trying to change the name of Malcolm X Boulevard
to read Avenue. What Google happened to d C Already
our Malcolm X turned to Meridian Hill. They changed the name.
It's Meridian Hill Malcolm X Park. Nope, actually, are are
the I lived on Avenue? Pal Yeah? Are our Malcolm
X Park just changed to we We are now called

(24:31):
h Walnut Oak Lane. I'm not even west really now
it's it's they changed the name Walnut Lane. That sh
ain't happen. And I'm sorry, Harlem. They want to change
it back to read Avenue. Funk that it's like anything
possible and gentification land. That's crazy. I'm sorry, but that

(24:52):
that's crazy. But that's that's that's really the origin how
I became a filmmaker. Wow, So the camera just basically
just fell right in your lap. But that was you
still have that camera? Where's that camera? I don't know,
But here's the thing, though, do you have to pay

(25:14):
for it? There's a new museum in Philly, but he
has the thing. No, did you say if I don't
think I think that was ordained because I don't think
there's a mistake. That day I just decided to go

(25:35):
see Vienna, and that day the Super eight camera was
just sitting there in the corner, and that career and
handed you your career, my life, you know what? Side
note on a on a parallel tip now that I'm
thinking about it. Spike Lee is also responsible for the

(25:55):
roots because our story is very similar. Where after my
audition at the New School and at Juilliard and Terrek
came up with me to New York for the weekend.
On our my training ride home back on on on
Septa from Jersey to back to Philly, a girl walked

(26:17):
up and thought that I was Chocolate the bucket drummer
and that levise commercials you did. She thought I was chocolate.
But it's only because but it's only because I I
did Boys Demands Motown Philly video and our hair was
sort of similar, so maybe I knew she meant, are

(26:40):
you the drummer in the Motown Philly video? But She's like, oh,
you're in that Spike lead commercial, right, and so we
were like laughing like yo, man, like because that's that summer,
Like fame just started a little taste of it, like
people started recognizing you know, so me and t like
oh this, this is kind of cool. But it was
the next day when we were watching Soul Train and
the commercial came on and it just hit us like eureka,

(27:02):
Like we look at each other like, yo, wait, why
do we do that? Let's do that in Philly And
instantly we got the buckets and like the roots as
you know, it was born that way. But when Coal
when You're Levi's commercial came on, it was like, yeah,
we need to do that. And then we four hours
later we're on South Street busking and then now I'm

(27:25):
sitting here with Spike Lee and allergically. Let me get
this and is that you know a lot of people,
you know, they tell you whether they like get film
or not. But the biggest complex ever get it's when
people of all generations say they went to a black
school or they went to college because of school. I
mean when people say that there's nothing better. When they

(27:49):
said because of that film, motherfucker, are we even think
about going to school? I didn't even know there there
were things of black colleges and I didn't know the
culture was that rich. Like seeing that then I was like, oh,
like it kind of set off a different world. Who knew? Yeah,
that was a mistake. That have the people that were

(28:17):
in the same cast and director. That's right, because it
was a different world first. That's how we knew it
was ron and came out first. That's what I meant.
I think it's the thing though, you know, and I can't.
I can't fault Bill Cosby. I should have been on it.
I should have. I just had a different ideal about

(28:40):
you know, stupid me Miles TV. I'm not gonna do TV.
And he saw the ideal and he swooped in on it. Wow,
before we started your film career, how did you? How
did you gather the months that will be You're in
a circle, like, how did you meet Ernest Dickerson? How

(29:02):
did you who? Who's your starting five? Like? Do you
have the same light people? The same who's the starting lineup? Well?
After Morehouse, I still knew I did not have enough
skills as to be a director. Filmmaking the grammar the
same way you put together a paragraph whatever. This is

(29:22):
the thing called film grammar. So I applied. I did
my research, applied to the top three film schools the
United States America, a f I American Film Institute USC, Silinka,
all the Trojans, and n y U. To get an
a f I USC, you had to get an astronomical
score in the g r E. I took the jury
and I did not get the astronomical score. They were

(29:45):
more forward thinking, progressive people thinking people in n YU.
The grad films could think that what you know, they
understood the standized testing could be biased. He has not
to do being a filmmaker, so I didn't have to
take a test. Applied always do submit have undergrad degree
and submit your create portfolio. I got in also Ernest
Dickinson got it. We were in the same class. We

(30:08):
both from Black School's earning with Ernest with the Howard
I grew up in New Jersey, so right away we
hit it to Ernest. Ernest shot all my in Y
you in Y you Grab films three years so he
shot my second year film, my thesis film, Joel's Best

(30:31):
Side Barbershop, which won the student Commy Award and and
because that film this is key. Ernest shot Joel's best
side barbershop and that's that's that film got him John
Sales film Brother Another Planet. So so what was great

(30:53):
because we always could work together. But it's great that
Ernest had already shot a feature before we did. She's
gotta have it, so he has more experience and knowledge.
So Ernest the DP. My editors Barry Brown, Barry getting
my first job he had. He he was owner of
Independent Distribution, first Rount Features at that graduate n y

(31:16):
U where I was just cleaning films and stuff like that.
He cut it my father, Billy's composer wyn Thomas from
Philly production designer Rufe Carter, the great Rufe Carter went
went went to Hampton. Rufe Carter, Robbie Reid and Ray

(31:36):
Dowell all were classmates, the same class in Hampton Man
I did not know that, huh network, So that that
was for many years. That was the like. That was it.
So Ernest shot features for me. She could have its

(32:00):
school days, do the right thing well better. Jungle Thief
and Malcolm X was the last film real quick and
Ernest came in to be a director I was gonna
say he came into the director, but his cinematography was
so tight that eventually he would become a director by

(32:21):
being a DP. And so after Malcolm X, his first
director of film was Juice. So I was right. Now,
Ernest is the top one of the top episodic TV
directors everywhere everywhere who decides the nine of it. Like
I would assume that you know the presidents, the director

(32:42):
and the vice president is a cinematographer and you you
got to be married to each other. So I mean,
how come you guys don't have a thing like Okay,
we'll do this project and then I'll do cinematography and
you do directing, or that it was not a cinematographer.
What's the difference between Yeah, what is DPS to photographed

(33:05):
the movie? The deepens in to the same thing. Yeah, right,
but but but there's different, just totally two different. Someday
are DP directors, but usually it's two different skills sets,
and Earnest visual sense was so far advanced the mind
that you know, when there was a question, you know,

(33:25):
I'd say, we're talking about Spike Lee shot. The idea
of the Spike Lee shot, you double dollar shot, well,
not even that I'm talking about first before the dollar shot.
I'm thinking of a lot of your frames were diagonal.
That was the only in in do the right thing.
You had some abstract looking stuff. And it wasn't those
first He's gotta have it. There was some abstract looking

(33:48):
Oh I never thought of looking at someone. I definitely
remember the first time you cameras on the floor, more
looking up, like making people taller, just things I've never
seen before. Well like who decides whose idea is that
it depends? I mean we usually back in early was

(34:09):
Ernest ideal because his his visual sense so much evance
in mind Ernest after graduated, Ernest was an architecture major
at Howard and then he'd come in while you right
away he was a medical photographer at the hospital. So
I mean his visual sense was was that's why everybody
wanted Ernest to shoot their films and why you grab films.

(34:31):
So what's he the double dolly or was that you?
We both there was a scene of more better blues
where we had First of all, we did not invent
that shot. We just did you first see it or
was like okay, we gotta do that, and we did it.
But it wasn't too later we discovered we saw this,
people have been doing it. I think it was first

(34:53):
when you were avoiding the thugs and move better. Yeah,
that was See what was wrong about that? When you
when we were on a double dollar you really shouldn't move,
but I was trying to. I didn't We didn't know
that trying to move like a walking But I had
a real dumb question, is there as I'm sorry, I

(35:15):
gotta is there a single dollar shot? Because you're saying
if you're saying it's you're on one and then the
cameras on one or no, it's just a it's a
it's one dollar, but the actress sitting on a diet,
so therefore we call the double dollars. So you're sitting
on a store apple box. But here's the thing. Though
Ernest and I would do it, but finally had we

(35:37):
had we had a conversation. He said, you know what,
we're out of film school, so we gotta we got
to use this. So this shot means something. So example
where it means something is when the best use probably
is he's going to the bottom and ball room. And

(36:01):
the reason why I did that doing research for the film,
I think very I became very close with Dr Bai
Sha Bass Malcolm's will, the late Great Dr Bai Sha Bass,
and she told me she felt that Malcolm knew he
was gonna be assassinated. We went to my boat that
he wanted to be a martyr. When she told me that,

(36:25):
I said, well, how we can convey that? And then
we said we'll do that. The Double Dolly shot. Another
example betwenty fifth, after the late Great Philippine moh Hoffman
kisses and what's her last and kisses kisses the student

(36:46):
and it was his bathroom and then it's like, oh,
ship would I do? And that's when he's coming out
the song Brock. I was gonna ask about that scene
because that song is just too perfect for that. That
whole scene was too perfect. Oh what's a about? An
example Denzil again an inside man where we see what

(37:06):
we think is all think of one of the hostages
by Claive Owen's character, but turns out it's fake. But
Dent's nowhere, so we want to so right then and there,
and he feels that he's responsible for his hospital shot
in the head because he roughed up Clive Owen's character.
So that's when we have him doing that too. Do
you use it a few times? Yeah, a conversation down

(37:30):
the street, me and me and me and Wesley. That's
when I admit that I I spilled the beans. Right,
Oh yeah too too right right? I told my wife, so, um, befo,

(37:53):
she's got to have it? Did you? I mean, what's
how did you learn how to write a screenplay? Well?
By reading screenplays? I mean we had it. And when
it's a great film schooling, so that teach us who

(38:15):
would we would show the film? They will show you
the film, they will give you the screenplay. So it's
a great learning experience to read something and see how
that's directed translate. So that's that's how I shot she's
having twelve days? Really is your life first to the

(38:39):
four in the summer to six day weeks? Y? Wow,
Like I'm trying to do the math in the visual semi. Sorry,
we're making this a very little interview. And you shot
one time we had to we having more money. Well,
I was gonna say, did you Holly wud shuffle it?

(39:00):
Did you just here's my card? How do you have
a credit card? You have credit? We are we put
that film. We really didn't. We approached in the four stages.
First stage was shoot it. Second, this is film now
we shot Super sixteen. The second stage would get the

(39:22):
film out the lab. The third stage was crucial, was
met half enough money to eat? Why was it? Because
I edited film? And uh, that was very crucial because
I was hanging out with the chef. You want the
chef is che chef Bard, So don't front video that

(40:00):
was pre pre romin. So I called one of my
dad's business partners, like when you first started coming on
the scene, because there was buzz at the same time,
almost simon sanously about you and Whoope's rise in New
York with her one woman and showing you're doing film,

(40:20):
and I remember when I first ever heard of who
you were. They were trying to describe the fact did
you have to hustle T shirts or socks or something that, Oh,
I know you're talking about. What was the story behind that?
Well that In the trailer for the film, it begins
with me saying tube socks, tube socks, you goo Google

(40:43):
google it when I was selling. When I'm not selling
tube socks, I'm a director, so maybe they okay, I'm
thinking maybe they was like, yeah, he fronted it selling
T shirts and two socks. Okay, I see, um, so
before we get to school days and well, yeah, she's

(41:04):
got to have it. How did you cast those people?
Like what was that process? Like? We I put an
ad in backstage and people standing head shots and it
was just off the head shots that you you call
them in and the fine was Tracy Camility and that
was her in New Jack City or is that an
urban legend? Okay? And that was the projected were projecting

(41:31):
scarface on the right and you brought her back in
when we jumping with you brought her back in. Yeah.
And also she has a cameo in your Netflix version
and she's got no Yeah it was on Instagram anyway.
Yeah it's true. Okay, great, wait, I call him Flash

(41:58):
from Five Parties. But Melvin, I knew you would you
want to say, Melvin, listen, do you know this name?
I was about to say, I've seen him once and
I think he was doing an adaptation of both characters

(42:23):
like a one Grand place and yeah, yes serious, this
was like fifteen years ago. He put both character together
as a woman show. It's it's it's like a retrospective
of my history and cinema flash. It's slowly at the

(42:45):
top instence in two weeks. So yeah, that's when I realized, like, oh,
you live in Philly. Like it was like the summer
of ninety four or something like, right when the Fruits
Versus got started, and he's like, yeah, I'm doing a
one man show about you know, my career and experiences
of you know that that sort of thing. So um

(43:07):
was not long running. The first grand opening, grand closing.
All right, school days, so many questions can I get
started on school days? First? The first question of school
days predate school days by well. So after she's got
to have it, um mars, Oh I forgot the videos too.

(43:31):
Yeah yeah, um. When you were, I guess, finishing up,
she's got to have it. You were getting started on
another movie called The Messenger. No, no, hold on, hold
on that was legend. No, I got it backwards backwards, Okay.
After I finished in Yu in the summer in May

(43:52):
of eighty two, I tried to do a feature film
called Messenger. We had it was starring Lawrence Fishburne, Jean
cars Posito. I got involved with the friend of the
family who said he's gonna finance the film, and uh,

(44:15):
I got all my classmates, We're gonna shoot this the summer,
just shoot this summer of eighty four. And the money
never came. So I had to pull the plug. And
my name was mud rightfully, so so I had to
lay low, and I just said to myself, you know,
I had three years of of being graduate film and yu,

(44:39):
so I just be able to do a film with
two or three people speaking, and that turned in that
She's gonna have. But it was a complete disaster. Did
you ever try to revisit that project later on the slay?
It's not really for public consumption, and I just try to,
like as an ex exercise it extacy. It got it,

(45:00):
got it. But but here's the thing, though, there's a
here's the thing I said to the other the other
day in London, I was gave his speech there. There
have been so many times in my life where I
have one ft on the ground and that one foot
that Spazi Air Jordan's is on the corner, is on
the ground, but the grounds on the cliff, and that

(45:24):
next the other foot is about to take that step.
And as I've been I've I've been blessed because so
many times, if I have taken another step, they had
been curtains, and if I have gotten the money for
made that film, I would not be here because I
was not. I had people jumping off cars, off roofs.

(45:46):
I mean, just crazy ship. There's no way I could
have done it not have been the end of me.
So it's just it's blessed a lot of times. Though
we think about this a lot of times. Some ship
happens and you're like, a ship, this is funked up.
But in retrospect you said, you know what, I'm glad
that this is how I think you can resurrect it.

(46:11):
Similar to Uh, Mario doing bass, make a movie about
this movie. I think that's the movie, right, she gotta
have it was at the beginning of the Nike relationships.
Somebody wanted me to ask you that. Yes and how
famous story. Two gentlemens who worked for Whydeney Kennedy still

(46:34):
Nike's agency, Jim Davenport, will Bill Widen Uh. They in Portland,
they saw the film. They got the ideal to pair
Michael Jordan my characters. Mars called me up, Sad, want
to do this. We're shooting thirty five million black and White.
You play Mars, you could direct. There's one thing, Michael

(47:01):
Jordan's doesn't know who the funk you are. I've never
heard of a film. And he's just on a big
deal with with the Nike and he said, so he
has director's approval, and so Mike could have gone with
Bob Graaldy, those big time commercial directors, Joe Picker. I mean,

(47:21):
these guys are great. And it wasn't until the All
Star Game in Toronto, which is two years ago. I
finally got enough. Curse asked Mike. I said, money, why
did you choose me? Said? You know what he say
said because you were wearing the sneakers. That's where it started.

(47:42):
So you had to meet him first. And I mean,
I mean he made the decision, he was gonna do
it before I met him. But they yeah, but that's
why he made that. That's why he'sad to go with
me and not Joe Picker. He was locking him. You
would be doing it if you wasn't meeting with them. Crazy.

(48:03):
You know what, it probably was Mars to take off
as George was making little to Nola. That's I was
about to say, Yeah, you were rocking the threes by then, Yeah,
damn no, those Jordan Ones. Yeah, yeah, do the right thing.

(48:29):
You're right, trees were bugging out. I was gonna say,
how did you How did you arrange for the Threes
to make their debut in that film? Like I bought them?
Wait they were out by then or just yeah they
were off the sweite shot Do the Right Things Summer
eighty eight. Okay, okay, okay, that makes sense. Where you

(48:52):
keep them slight? What all your shoes all the nights?
All Jordan's in the vault with the Oscar signed, Game
War signed, So you I know that you mean by
this point after the movie you also started making music videos. Um,

(49:14):
you shot? Why did you shoot a video to White
Lines when it wasn't a single? Ernst? Ernst and I
were in film school, okay, and why you videos are
coming out? So we wanted we did that White Lines did?
It was on s spec It Siee Robinson commissioned you
guys to do it. We did on Spec and God

(49:38):
Rest Her Soul and Joe's Joe Robins. But they were crooks.
We do this video for White Lines starring Laurence Fishburne.
Give it to them. They say, we don't want it,
and then ten years later they put a compilation of

(49:59):
videos and do you even see the splice marks? It
wasn't even finished. They put it on the compilation for
sure record videos once they realized who cloks? What was
it like shooting Miles? Oh here's the thing? What for

(50:27):
I haven't seen that? So here's the thing. The Miles
b Joan. Miles knew my father, so he'd cursed me out.
He gave me everybody else. He called you the motherfucking
a second. But we were coolin I know you your pa,
you know your father's cool, so I'll leave you alone.

(50:48):
But it was just great. No, I've been very lucky.
Miles Prince Michael Phillis Hyman from from School Days, School Days?
Can we go back to Miles real quick? So when
you saw Miles ahead, um okay, well okay, so were

(51:08):
you ever inspired to Can there ever be another Miles
David's movie after there has been one? And ship there
that wasn't really a Miles Davis. Here's the thing though, Look,
I respect for Don Cheetle, and I just think that
there's a thing called taking liberties right, but to event

(51:35):
I mean he he practically said himself. He had to
right right that story get fund and to get finance,
and so the what's my man's name? The writer, what's
the actor's name? That, and the whole thing about his
his mass is being stolen that that never happened. M hmm,

(51:55):
it never happened. I will say, though, and then he could.
I just said real quick. That's why it pains because
I worked on Jackie Robinson three years. I worked on
James Brown for two years. I wanted to do Alite,
But you can't do another film about Jackie Robinson. You

(52:19):
can't do nothing film about James because the rights are
gone that the States sold the rights later they locked up,
so you can't come behind him double jeopardy like film
double Jeopardy. I mean, there's multiple incredible hawks. There was
the greatest. See. The thing is, though, I think you

(52:40):
got very lucky. You got extremely lucky with Malcolm X
for Startist. He had a short life, so you know
him him cutting his life, his life being cut in
his thirties gives you just enough space to wiggle and
really tell a meaty story, a three hour story. But
it's almost like it and your and your vision of

(53:01):
James Brown, could you get from Augusta, Georgia all the way.
Could you even get to nineventy four without really cutting corners?
Because the thing is, okay, the Moles thing with Don
might have been a little spotty, but at least like
the fact that they just chose one story. I'd rather

(53:23):
see a well put together story in the day of
the life. Look, okay, you're gonna tell a three month
story about him recovering. But but what you're talking about,
dough Quest, is that that's direct this vision. Because, for example,
the reason why I didn't get Jackie Robinson made because

(53:47):
I wanted to tell this whole story and they just
wanted the powers to be the gate que just wanted
I just wanna do it on night he broke the
you know, the color line. And I just think that
the say that this one life, I mean this one year.

(54:07):
How did he get there? You know? And how do
we know do what we're gonna SHOWTI they testified against
Paul Robinson, you know that that he was a Republican.
Damn we missed me. You you leave all that stuff out.
But again it say, it comes down to the director's vision,
you know, so who you gotta hurry hip and swooped

(54:27):
down on before somebody else right now that I was
ready from Wesley to kill it. Damn, I really wanted.
I wanted Denzela. Dude, it was an age where he
could have played Jackie. Yeah. It also I like to

(54:48):
say something again, this is all respect. However, how can
brother man go from Jackie Robinson James Brown. I've ever
seen a picture through from Marshall that was now now

(55:09):
jack Boseman is playing Marshall. What Google? It's like Google,
it's coming out when I learned from Nina, right, don't
you even so? My brondo man think it is Jackie Robinson,

(55:34):
James Brown, not Thurgood Marshall. M hmm, play man Deela next?
If anything, I would see what's his name from Empire Philly?
Uh Mari, No, no Empire if you would ye, no, yeah,

(55:58):
you know he was third good. Marshall didn't have a
co Hudson Yo, it was yeah, that was main Della.
It was yeah, Terence Howard and Jennifer Hudson. They had
they were winning in Nelson Mandela. We're gonna take care

(56:21):
of a part to add main. That's the question. How
can that move five man dollars? Jackie was this a joke? No,
Jennifer Hudson, Jennifer does she have an accent? Yes, yeah,
if you want to call it that. And then Terence
Howard was main della, main della. I don't played this.

(56:44):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's a real question. How do
you have five man dealars and one Jackie Robinson or
one James Brown a state wise spike? How does that work? Comes?
The state has the power. Like, here's the thing, though,
you cannot do a film, a biopic about Jimi Hendrix
and drugs being it. You're not gonna You're not gonna

(57:05):
get the music. Yeah, you're not gonna. The state will
not give you the rights to Jimmy Hendricks music. If
you have drugs in the film, I'm not gonna get it.
So they just don't want to James movie done right,
it was one done though music in it? Yes, that's so.

(57:34):
With Let's go to school, okay, I say, um? With
Prince recent death, is that something that you thought about
or you don't? Killy Holland for me documentary, Yes, I cannot.

(57:56):
I cannot do a feature film about Michael Jackson. Can
I cannot do a film about Prince especially it's just
too First of all, it's it's too soon. And then
who are you going to cast? Who do you think?
I think Andre Holland would kill it. He was in.
He was in that showed the nick he was also

(58:17):
first first movie was Miracle Saint Ana. He was. That's right,
he was. He's serious. Yeah, and I think Andrea Body
and he got some super coolers. Oh hell yeah. We'll
talk about complexion though. Sorry, maybe kind of this old school.

(58:40):
I think that we just can't discount our pigmentation. But
Michael Max now close close, they were close. All right.
I'm putting this out there, Spike, Yes, I'm putting this
out there. Um. I believe in my heart and hearts.
And I told this to First time I told this

(59:01):
to her, she laughed. Second time I told her, she's like, Okay,
Now I think she hears me. I believe there's an
oscar waiting for you and for Leslie Jones. If you guys,
do I Nina Simone proper? I believe she is Nina Simone.

(59:21):
I see it. I told I think she could pull
she got that Nina Simone talk about putting on the spot, Okay,
but I think she could do it. That's it. You
don't You don't have to say nothing. I'm putting it
out there, Spike, I believe that Leslie Jones in the
position she is in Hollywood right now, if the right

(59:41):
screen prey and the right film you you behind it.
I believe you too can write each other to Oscar.
I think I think you two can write each other
to Oscar Glory and get the proper Nina Simone story.
Let allow it now. I'm stuck on as a state daughters,
but her doesn't run a state. They just made Spike

(01:00:02):
do a movie. He even thinking, but the state. They'll
come on out. They didn't like what's her name? Well?
Who did? Yeah? That's he is not connected like the
Caretaker had you know, that was his story. He sold
his story. That happened to have Nina Simon. Actually, after
that documentary, it's like, come on, I'm sorry, Yeah, back

(01:00:24):
back to Prince really quick. Has the estate been in
contact with you? I guess they're looking for for somebody
to do the documentary. They have the footage three First
Avenue Concert where they filmed or where they recorded in
perfect Rain already told them, okay, well, the audience hasn't
heard this story. So no, no, I'm just talking to
you as a friend, like I begged them to go
to Spike. Yeah, so the not heard from the State. Yeah,

(01:00:46):
they're looking for somebody to do a documentary around this
footage that they have of this concert where they half
of Purple Rain was recorded. So I think that would
be perfect for you after the Michael Jackson docks. Yes,
I would love to see it through you guys. So
just putting that out there too. And I want to
thank you for being very helpful with the with off
the Wall and bad Talk. Man, you're one of my

(01:01:07):
favorite storytelling us. It's that but you got you got
stories to man. Alright, Spike, I have some old footage
for my bar mitsfied like didn't edit some kind of
some of my family give the Spilburg. We got another
music video to talk about what Anita Baker which one

(01:01:30):
world beginning in the world because you're selling socks also
and at the end of that video as well, Yeah,
we shot at the world famous Apollo soon being called
the Beacon. Really right, now, what episode? So Mike school Days,

(01:02:02):
Yes days was my four years at Morehouse jam packed
into a homecoming weekend. Yes, it was. Now Okay, I've
probably watched all of your directed commentaries at least ten
times each and because Spanish especially well even even the

(01:02:25):
Criterion do the right thing, like they're so to me,
that's better than college and you know you can learn.
I I listened to directors comments. I mean you learn.
Just yes for me real quick. One of the most
important things I ever learned Curis Saw, the great Japanese Stilma.
Curis Saw was in New York promoting ron and as

(01:02:47):
journalists think it's the New York Times Journals asked him, Mr, course,
you consider one of the greatest filmmakers ever a master
cinema at your age like eight five a six, don't
quote me, He said, what else can you learn cinema?
And course I was said, there's still a universe, a
center for me to learn. When I read that ship,

(01:03:09):
I said, the minute you should not stop learning toil
you're dead. That's why I learned. And also Rashamone, it's
really the foundation where she could have it came from
this film. In that film Roshamone, there's a rape in
the murder and several people witness it tell their story

(01:03:32):
and left up to the audience to decide who's telling
the truths, Well, she's gonna have You had these three
men who are who sleep on no and they're telling
the audience you know what they think about heart, So
that's where they came from. Are your n y U
classes similar to this where you break down your filmography
and you tell the mostly mostly other films. So I

(01:03:53):
don't want to be just teaking about myself though, Okay, Okay, now, okay,
I gotta schooldays cast. I just gotta jump to the
sceat now. When you were given the director's commentary on
the infamous, I want to be versus Jiggaboo, the Fight,

(01:04:15):
the Greek Show. I mean I was watching it frame
by frame, And why did you get the cameras running?
Because that's it was good tell everybody what happened. Okay,
so basically the story. Okay, So why did you decide
to separate them? Were it really finances or did you

(01:04:38):
have a mastermind that just okay, this mastermind, I'm starting
School Days. School Days was the first film. A lot
of people, right, and we can be shooting on location,
and I really want to keep the friction between the
two groups, the wannabes and the Jiggaboos because the young

(01:04:59):
the first film, I don't want to come too chummy,
So I made sure that the Wannabes got a better
hotel and the jigibe has got the less hotel. So
right then and there, that's where friction they They didn't

(01:05:23):
know that they found out the thing. So so the
culmination of that friction happened during the Greek show, the
Steps show. As the fellows are coming on stage, Bread
marks the great great brand from ourselves, grabs t shirt,
camels head and pushes to his crotch. Oh that's what

(01:05:46):
that's what she's doing. It insane when she so when
the Gamma saw that, didn't was on. So it was
not suposed to be a fight, I said, Ernest, do
not turn that mother point, keep rolling, keep rolling at
world point? How long did that fight? That real last

(01:06:11):
fight last until until we ran out of secure? You
didn't stop it? You were scared that they were like,
I'm going fucking home. Did you save it for last
or we We did not call off the We did
not cut off the camera to the film run out
of the magazine, So there was more where in the

(01:06:31):
shooting schedule was that seem like in the middle of that,
there was definite bad blood between the two groups. SA
At what point did you reveal like, ha, ha, okay,
this is what I really did. Guys before they I
mean they got regularly, but I didn't make a confession though.

(01:06:53):
Did they buy it once they found out or they
just felt like, oh, you being a cheap motherfucker and
you like Jasmine guy and nah, they just it really,
I mean your dark skin, I mean you grew up.
I mean you grew up with ship before you got
before you got cast in the film anyway, you know,
so we just want to play in this whole colouration thing.

(01:07:15):
Did you write the chance your eyes a blue but
you ain't white? I think that was teasing Jasmine that
that did that, and the gamble that was I was
a fellas that was rand from our syles. I think,
say what to the side and was like, Yo, this

(01:07:36):
is what we're gonna do. They worked on all those steps.
They did that stuff themselves. Can't you some of them words?
Did you come under budget or over budget? I mean
we're under budget on that one. We're dealing with Columbia.
It was Columbia Pictures, So dealing with a real uh,
what do you a real studio? What was there? Because

(01:07:58):
I definitely remember, like all Evany and Jet, there was
like you know, the campus that was more House. As
I went the Morehouse and at the two weeks, I'm
a third deration more Morehouse man. At the two weeks
we kicked off campus. But Clark gave you love, Clark
gave his love and Morris Brown spell would never let

(01:08:20):
us come on camp. Of course not. I'm surprised you're not,
as you're not Morris Brown which which closed in we
shot there too. But here's there's the president Morehouse name
was Howard Gloucester and at the I met with them
at the kicks off campus and he was mad at

(01:08:40):
me and he said, why did you cast that man
as a president mission college Joe Senica And he said,
because it looks like a sambo. And he got the situation.
They got him more so everything that we were depicting

(01:09:01):
the film we were making it that he called Joe
Seneca a sambo. That was a great actor. You're laughing
too hard. I don't know what a samble the African
American history and culture, but you can't you can't always

(01:09:28):
laugh at that word. Depending on who you're with, whatever,
I want a right, keep it moving? Alright? How did
they get help? There's a really good story online about
uh Marcus talking about the struggle that it was to
make the butt. Oh yeah, of which I guess well,

(01:09:53):
because the thing was it was like the oral history
of of of the butt. Yeah, that was a good article,
and I guess the EU guys were sort of like, well,
you know, we're grateful for the single, but you know
that wasn't real DC, Go Go, and we wanted to
show you know what, and Markum was just like, well,
you guys just do twenty minute jams with really no

(01:10:15):
structure and you're based on other people's material. Yes, She's Jez,
She's falling, known as Chocola City now Vanilla Swirld. It's London.

(01:10:39):
It has to be said that, you know, at least
from a good four or five year films, like very
iconic story, so true story. The premiere of She's Having
DC and at the part the U and d C

(01:11:03):
excuse me go and EU was the band. Wow, I
never heard Go Go in my life really, And when
I went there was I said, oh ship and I
was still I was writing and She's gonna. I was
writing School Days at the time. I said, Yo, we
gotta put we gotta put Eu in the movie. And

(01:11:26):
so I knew Marcus through Raymond Jones, the late great
Raymond Jones, and so crazy thing. I'm a big I
mean the color scene and she's gonna have as a
Homers Wizard of Oz. So I said, we gotta put
this part. And then I go see a Sign of Times.

(01:11:51):
You're but Night at the time came out this same
time day, You're right because I opted to see Sign
of the Times before my friend want to go to
School Days. I went to Sign of the Times and

(01:12:12):
we told each other about the field. Damn, that's crazy.
How did you think he must like the balls too? Yeah,
I mean he's been doing it. He did it twice though. Yeah,
he's doing my chance. I can't remember. I mean, it's
going to be a beautiful night. Uh that and uh,
I mean he all throughout eighties six he was That

(01:12:35):
was his car response thing like in concert a lot.
So he just capt it's going to be a beautiful night.
Yeah too. But questions, but um number one, how long
was that video shoot? Was it like one day? We
shot at Brooklyn Tech and did you know at the time,
because me and my girlfriend were literally just watching this
video a couple of weeks ago. We were like, yeah,
we didn't even realize that they were holding up the red,

(01:12:55):
black and green flag and the most A lot of
young people don't even know. I have been at that dance.
But you're telling what the title should be. Yes, I said,
I want the storm. He called the Butt and we
got a dance. My mother's great. I told Marcus the
name of the song gonna be the Butt, and we
got to dance and he did the rest. Wow more

(01:13:23):
I would have taken production credit, you know everyone else
did and they didn't even write overduce. So you play
that part Today'll still get down, Still works, Still works.
Have a School Days question? Yes, so I understand that
there was a little tension between you and Titia Campbell's mother.

(01:13:45):
Oh yeah, did that ever get resolved since or no?
During the filming of the School Days? Okay, oh yeah, yeah,
it was the song won't be Along Tonight? We thought
should be the hit with the it was called, but
she had to be Teacher Cambell. He said, should be
the race, and she said it should be teaching Campbell

(01:14:06):
and the rays. So that was her brief. I thought
she's met her daughter. Had to lick somebody's part. She
at that. I swear to God, if Teacher camp walk
through now she was cursed every time. She was like, hey,
you spiking. Even today I came out, Okay, how you

(01:14:30):
know that? I will say that. I mean, second, I'm
through purporing away your love scenes in your field. That's
the raising why Teacher to Campbell she wouldn't do a
sex scene, so that was the sexy she was gonna get.

(01:14:51):
So I had to come on. I had to think
of something freaky. So I said, when you gotta increasing
this head. She would not do a love scene. I
want to do it, So I said, all right, and

(01:15:12):
you gotta lick the part in Big Bro on my teeth. Yeah,
and that made it worse. I will tell you though,
that's like, yeah, that's upside down. Spider Man kiss for
black people, the knickcap again that Rachel's sexty scene was

(01:15:42):
also nice. With mother on my team, it was beautiful
and just remember it in my head. Oh yeah yeah,
Steve one, uh my man, keep John keep so only
can be me? Oh that song right there, you know
Stevies saying my winning my wife come out really about

(01:16:06):
that ripping to the sky. Wow, we're still married to
Riverside Church. Alright, we had another moment. You have another vote.
Now you keep John back on do the right thing?

(01:16:26):
Why don't we try joint? I love that record. All right,
let's let's move. Maybe we'll get the six movies. Let's
you also note that the first time Ozzie Davis was
introduced into okay, I just because Dennis, I'm getting because
the crew start, Yes, we'll have a lot of regret,
regret question why didn't we ask, Okay, do the right thing? Um?

(01:16:54):
That's the perfect First of all, thank you Spike, because Okay,
Okay hate being that guy that can predict his own questions.
We had the Crystal Ball and that felt We talked
about global warming. I mean I was gonna say I
showed Yeah, I showed that. I showed that movie to

(01:17:15):
my son, my eleving role. This was like literally like
a month though, because because when that came out, I
was I think I'm the same age. I was like ten,
so he's eleven. I was like, I'm gonna show you
this movie. That movie and the thing I've always liked
about all your stuff. I saw him as a kid,
and it's like it's one thing, but seeing it as

(01:17:35):
an adult has a completely different meaning. And I would say,
to do the right thing is one movie where it
is almost more relevant now than it was when it
came out. And I mean even like and this and
the thing that I thought was so brilliant about it
even watching it, you know now it's like it is
ah because I've watched it and I made him write
an essay and simple the only question was yeah. So

(01:18:01):
the question was you know, do you think Mookie did
the right thing? And there is no right or wrong
answer to that question. You could argue with a million
different ways. And so to answer your question, though, thank
you for showing your son at early age, at that
age the film. But no black person has ever asked

(01:18:21):
me why didn't movie throw the garbage can through the window?
Only white people asked me. Not one single black pers
ever asked me why did Mookie throw the garbage can
through the window. A matter of fact, I still pay Bill,
still pay Steve that way. Was this movie the first time?

(01:18:50):
Did you had people in mind for characters or did
you still just know I had I mean the film Messenger,
which the uncle never happened. It was school was supposed
to start John Carlo and Fishburn, So I mean, I
knew had to put in a film after the success
of She's Gonna Happen because he Fishburn turned on the

(01:19:16):
roll RD around him. He didn't want to do it.
He said, no, I can't like I'm shooting The King
of New York or I don't like it and like
the role Bill none Size made it like, Yeah, he
definitely wasn't truth that Danny A Yellow didn't want to
take picks with Chuck d for press. I never heard
what I've never heard of. I never DeNiro. I wanted

(01:19:42):
robbed There'll do it? What he didn't want to do it? Wow?
But it turned up. Yeah, it would have been. Here's
the thing though, with The Narrow when the great actors
ever but would have kept it would have tipped the scale.
Would have been a Robbing the Narrow movie instead of
an ensemble piece. So okay for starters as and I

(01:20:04):
was saying that I hate the fact that I can
predict all these episodes the Quest Love Supreme, because I
can't go an episode without mentioning soul Train and my
my nolgeable wisdom of it. But you know, for the longest,
I never knew what Rosie Perez's name was because you know,

(01:20:25):
they don't give the names of the she. I mean,
she did a scramble board once, but you know, I
didn't realize that until like much later, like four or
five years ago. There, Oh, there's Rosie Perez. So just
for the longest, it was like me and my best
friend in school was like our girl because even on
soul Train, she was a star And it wasn't like

(01:20:47):
going in the puberty or whatever, like, oh my god,
who's this woman? Dad? It's just that she stuck out,
literally got I got a story more than so, how
did you discuss? Ever, that's two stories, rosy stories. So

(01:21:07):
again it comes back to school days. School days? Is
it hit? Mhm h. The butt is number one song
R and B. So I'm having a birthday party in
l A. I forgot funky. It was named the club
Funky Something. Anyway, I'm holling you guys. Anyway, So the

(01:21:40):
club is called Funky Something and EU we fly EU
to l A for the party, and so we had
a butt contest, but dance contests and this woman is
on speaker dancing roll. She says that she was screaming,

(01:22:03):
saying that this is sexist something else, but that she
was dancing. M hmm. He wasn't doing that stuff is
just the truth. And so I tell security to get
this lady off the speaker because she's gonna fall and
break her neck. So bring her down, and she starts

(01:22:25):
to curse me out. I've never heard this. U. I
knew she was Puerto Rican, but the way that I
never everybody speaks like my motherfucking life. So I said,
where are you from? This is Brooklyn, So I'm from Brooklyn.
So where you from? I said, what name is just four?
I live for Green and I was writing do the

(01:22:47):
right thing at the time. At that moment, I said,
I'm gonna make Mookie's girl from Puerto Rican. Mhm God.
At that point, did you know you were gonna pay
a Mookie? Oh? Yeah, yeah, but I knew, But I said,
she has to be. I mean, she had the audition,

(01:23:09):
but I still knew that that she was going to
be played Mookie's girlfriend Tina. That's the real story that
a star was born. I knew that. I knew that
she was gonna be great in this role. I did not.
I cannot predict you'd be great as Mookie's girlfriend. But

(01:23:30):
at that point, you didn't say, like, oh, this is
an Oscar caliber actress and she herself and we never
talked about oscars. That's not there. I mean, we don't
talk about that stuff. Well, not that, but when you
see new talent that but I don't a lot of
times people first films are yours. But I don't say
she's going to Oscar. I don't do that. So do

(01:23:50):
you direct? Like, are you the director that will? You know?
I know something? Uh, what's his name? Who directed seven
and Fish so Fincher, especially on House of Cars. Like
his episode of House of Cars, he's been known to
do fifteen, sixteen, seventeen takes knowing that the last three

(01:24:11):
are finally going to be what he wants that seventy
takes for you know, Oh yeah, I've heard that. Yeah,
he'll he'll spend. First of all, I don't have I
never had the budget to do that. We gotta go

(01:24:31):
and he doesn't need I mean, so you're saying that
riot scene was shot in one shot? You had one
shot that just know it was like two nights we had,
you had the right and you had excuse me, you
had the when the fire trucks coming, the war and
stuff like that. So for something in that tense, especially
when you are with multiple cameras and that sort of thing,

(01:24:52):
I know, there's a moment where it's like, you know, okay,
cut and then Carl it's like okay, so everything is
like do characters break now? I know forgotten Gan Carlos
Posito said that because of the correct teach me, Jean Carlo, okay,

(01:25:17):
take to keep it. My father gian Carlo, Giancarlo Porsito.
So he he mentioned um that during the filming that
him and Danny did some bonding because of their Italian connection,
talk to each other Italian his his father's Italian right,

(01:25:38):
and then there was Italian America. There was a scene
well during that scene, uh where the radio gets beaten
finally you know baba. Yeah. I think initially Danny decided
to curse amount in Italian and said something two Sean Carlo.

(01:25:59):
That really just infuriated him. And even when you yell cut,
he was just like that. That ain't that. I never
heard that stoke. What I would tell you is that
there were certain words that people don't want to say.
And so we Yet when when John the scene where

(01:26:20):
Danny has the bat end the close of him, Giancarlo
and Bill Nunn would stand on the side of the
camera and they were, you know, going exchanging and what
Giancarlo called him a fact getting bastard. That's when Danny exploded.
Also was Danny that was upset. He was upset, but

(01:26:43):
he don't like to be called fact getting bastard. And
the fact that it wasn't in the script. Oh, I
mean that that you're off script by then you just
just go, you know, just say the worst things you
could say. So you have a lot of old script moments.
So in your screen plays it's just like you know,
we'll we'll improvise. No, you don't write improvise, but you

(01:27:05):
know that it comes in rehearsal. You start, you see
where we can improvise there. So here's the thing though,
not everybody can improvise, so you have to know who
can do it who can't, and you work on improvisation.
Improvisation during uh rehearsal and heated moments, people gonna get
off script because it's really emotional and you're not really

(01:27:28):
worried about it. This exact, exact words that are that
are scripted. But at the table okay, so at the
table read through, are they as heated as it will be?
Because I don't do that worry to me. I don't
want acting at it at a read through, I just

(01:27:49):
want to hear the words. I tell nobody act, just
read the words. Because except for auditions, where when you
when you audition people only getting you're not this in
the whole film. You're just different scenes. So if the
read there was the first time you get to hear
the words, it is entirely This is a strange phenomenon

(01:28:09):
reading the script. It's not the same as act as
saying the word. And so many times you might think
that you wrote something that's good, but her active reason
it's like, oh, ship, I gotta change that. So during
my read through, I'm re writing, I'm I gotta keep
up because like, well I'm crossing ship out. We gotta
change you gotta change that, gonna change this. How could

(01:28:30):
have an improv improper was Robin harris Man Sweetig Willie.
Here's the thing Robin was at this. I forgot the
name of the club, but Robbie read told me again
to casting. Dirick said, you gotta see this guy Robin
in l A. So this club the club to go

(01:28:51):
to the to go to the bathroom, you got to
go up the stairs next to the stage. In the
back of the club. Robin Harris had a guy with
a spotlight. He was he like this snapper fingers a

(01:29:13):
point and I was there one night. Robin Harris tore
Mike Tyson up. Mike Tys with I mean, you read
a piss of your pants. You have to walk past
Robin on the stage to go to the back. I mean,
no better blues. I know we're jumping ahead. Even if

(01:29:37):
you weren't working, if you act, you don't working that day,
but you saw Robin Harris was on the call sheet,
you would come. You will be there. He would remember.
He told Denzel, He said, Denzel, you hit things like
the question mark. I mean, I'm thinking that whole scene

(01:30:02):
when they at the party and he just fucking with
everybody likes that, you know, the whole thing. I mean,
I mean, he a great, great law those all lips.
I mean, people like that. You just gotta let him go.
That's like, that's like Jordan's Get Green Light, Green Light.

(01:30:23):
So by this point, when you're established, um, are you
putting pressure on Robbie to find you the next unused
Jim Town? Is she going to theaters? It wasn't pressure
because we always stash away a couple of roles. But
are they you know? Does does Martin Lawrence know? Oh
there's an audition for Do the Right Thing? Or is

(01:30:45):
it Robbie found Robbie. Do the Right Thing was Rody
Prayer's first film, Rob Hash's first film, Lawrence film Rob
Robbie found me. I didn't know these people. I know,
I mean I found Rosie, but the other people I
didn't know. Also, as you're building your actors squad, it
seems like it's harder and harder to get to get
for other actors to get in right because like by

(01:31:07):
now you said you already had Giancarlo, you already had
Bill None, you already had Can we talk about the
tutoral relationship? Well, I was gonna go there, like how
hard is it for your white actors two, especially especially
in Jungle Fever? How they were at the Silverda Shop

(01:31:29):
Like how and I know about the controversy of better
Blues with you between the club owners more Josh Flappers
played by Nick and John Deturo. Yes, how to write
that down? Don't get it? So I want to talk
about that. But no, No, that's the thing. It's like,
how do you convey to them what the character is

(01:31:55):
without saying like, Okay, well you're going to be the
villain or you know, play it to the hilt, or like,
I mean, how do you Here's the thing though, the
white actors that I've worked with, great human beings. These
are people artists and understand that their history and they're

(01:32:18):
cool planet because it's not like we're making it up.
But was there ever any indifference to or not indifference
or objections to Okay, well you know who? Who? Where
did you find that? What are waste? Guys? The two cops,
the cops that killed Radio were also in fever. One

(01:32:40):
is Dannielle little son. Which one the one is not
Hispanic taller one? Oh what are waste? That's what's his name?
I was? I knew that, Miguel Sandoval, Yeah, I knew
that name. The no, the taller one, like the red
on here that's Daniel's son. He's the woman. Yeah, ah man.

(01:33:07):
But here's the thing though, is that people dig my work.
They understand it, and then there they're there. They're great parts.
In fact, John the Turtle used to say, Man, you know,
Spike Man. I don't know when this before the Throne
came out as a Spike Man. I ride the subway.

(01:33:28):
He would say, Spike, the brothers come to me, give
me that. They say, yo yo, yo, yo yo. So
they loved the Turtle. Yo, you messed it up so good.
I don't know what they are. I was like, wait,
are you Jewish? Are you telling you sister too? I
eat it too. I'm like, I don't. But here's the
thing though, when up more better claim came out, I
was accused of being antisi the Jewish Defense League a

(01:33:55):
d L. So my lawyer at the time, he told me, says, Spike,
this serious, this is this is the truth. He says, Spike,
if you want to continue work in Hollywood, you have
to write an op ed piece for New York Times
saying why you're not Semitic. I know it's not fair,

(01:34:18):
but you want to continue to work in this industry.
And I wrote it. You could google it. I wish
we had that kind of protection. Google it I had.
He you know, he was Jewish. He died, but he said, Spike,
you know you're a great filmmaker. I care for you.
But if you don't write this outbed piece saying you're

(01:34:40):
not anti Semitic, when you're done, you're done. Wow. Wait on,
I'm forgetting the most important character into the right thing
is the song, fight the power. I'm about to move one.
How did you you know, like when you're growing up

(01:35:00):
in the era, you just hear great music all the time,
like you think like a cat like Prince will just
you know, eat breathing ship, great songs and hits. But
now that I realized that it takes a craft and
and and and really a steady hand to to do
perfection getting I'm asking a group to give you an anthem.

(01:35:26):
I mean, that's some that's some hard as ship to do.
And what's weird is that I guess later years when
I've heard outtakes from songs that didn't make Nation a millions,
and you know there's like five or six or seven
other publicanmy related joints that where where can I hear those?

(01:35:49):
Where does he get his stuff? He's hearing ship? Like? Look, man,
by this point everyone knows that I'm the student. Like
if I came off as a chisty guy that just
you know, leaked the ship online and bootleg that ship,
that a testament to people know that I just generally
want to know stuff. And yes, you're a student of

(01:36:12):
the music, I'll share with you. Bill. I'm sorry I
didn't know anyway. So the point is that when I
heard the other songs, I was like, wow, Like okay,
so Public Enemy did have some misses. They had some
misses with their with their hits, the songs that really resonated,
and the songs that were like Okay, I'm glad they
kept this off the record. Yeah, but you could do it. Yeah,

(01:36:35):
but I'm now I'm just saying that the the the
I mean, the likelihood of them having five major life
changing songs in a row is some rare ship. And
the fourth one of their you know, of their of
their cannon being fight the Power, the first revel without

(01:36:56):
a pause to me bring the noise. Uh don't believe
hut or uh don't believe that it was necessary. I
feel like bass Heads. I feel like bass Heads is
just insane. At the time that it came out, it
was just unlike anything we ever heard before uh, then
the fourth being Fight the Power, and the last being uh,
welcome to the terrib So when how many songs did

(01:37:20):
they submit? Do they submit other songs that they just said, like,
this is your song, Well, here's a story. Hit me.
I knew, I knew that I need an anthem because
every script, every time Radar Raheem appears on screen, he's
gonna have a song blasting m hm. So every time

(01:37:40):
he seem a song to be blast and so that
ship gotta be hitting, and knowing the tone, I knew
it had to be public enemy. So the first Fight
the Power was the second submission. Aha, there we go.
Have we heard the first one? No, I don't. I

(01:38:03):
don't even see you don't want to play it safe
in the summer radio like and to be like, okay,
without a pause, we'll just stick to this or and
I wanted a new song and the first one wasn't hitting,
wasn't it? But it wasn't their fault because we didn't
we didn't. We weren't at a point where we could

(01:38:23):
show them the film. Okay, so earlier they didn't see anything.
I just I just didn't have a script. I guess
sending to Bill Stepney because Bill Stepnie living for Green.
So I called him up. I got my bike roll
four or five blocks. Here's the script. Boom he he.
He knows that he remembers more of the story than anybody,

(01:38:45):
Bill Stepney, So you just try to get his his
his saying it. But but the second But we got
to a point where we could show him something. I
don't know we showed him a clip or the whole film.
But once I saw that, Hank Shockley them, guys, do
you remember what your place for song was that? Do
you use your placeholder song? Yeah? That you used before

(01:39:10):
you got there? You mean, like, what do you called
temp music? We have it? We don't have any temp music?
Oh exactly. So because I knew that there's a thing
called temp love demis. That's so I don't want I

(01:39:32):
don't want to contaminate my INSI I mean, I knew
it was music is I don't have to take it.
When I heard Fight the Power for the first time,
what was that? Like? Man, I said, thank you Jesus,
because this was the whole It summed up the whole

(01:39:54):
motherfucking movie. And you asked for none of that. You
didn't asked for Elvis, John Wayne, none of that ship
like you just another do it that? Did you name
the song and say I need a song called Fight
the Power? Or no? They got five brothers, but I did.
All I said was I need an anthem. That's a

(01:40:15):
tall order, Spike, and that's why what the public m Okay,
the pizza Rea that burnt down the fire which I
assume that you burnt it down for real? How did

(01:40:36):
y'all control that since you weren't on a studio like
what stopping from spreading to have the fire departments there? Okay,
but the fire department that was in the film fire
department that's weird. Okay. But that that song, I mean

(01:41:03):
sometimes I don't I can't even can you imagine do
the Right Thing without Fight the Power. It's not the
same movie. It's not the same as another character in
the movie movie. I mean, but that it was a gift.
It's a gift from God. That's that's all I mean.

(01:41:23):
You You should ask Chuck and those guys, you know,
their their their version. Eventually I'll get to that. Yeah yeah.
Oh side note, um Spikes film inspired do the Right
Thing inspired? Uh? The song that was originally the roots
before Scott Storge gave it to his girlfriend Little Kim,

(01:41:45):
the song that will eventually be Lighters Up. Well, when
we got to the studio, um do the Right thing
was on television and uh, Samuel Jackson was senior ladder
lef Daddy and he was doing road Call. And when
I heard that drum be the time, I said, I
want to remake that sit and so I remade it,

(01:42:05):
and my father see Scott starts. I remade dude, and
Scott did the piano and then here's here's the crazy ship.
Tarik stayed by to to write the first verse. This
is gonna be like the first thing off tipping point. Uh.

(01:42:28):
And then Scott was like, we're going to somebody's birthday party.
I didn't realize that. That night is when I had
dinner with O. J. Simpson. Long story of that night,
and that was the first time literally we made that beat.
And then we went to some friends of ours birthday

(01:42:52):
party and and O J and Busta Rhymes and me
and Scott Starts sitting at the small kid small kids
stay able At the Thanksgiving it was very and we
were like the four black people there, so we just
sat at the small table all I got would say
was that he he said that, um that you know

(01:43:14):
the way that the rappers, uh, the way that Bob
Dylan Uh. And and was it Patti Smith, Um, you
know Champion Hurricane Carter that us US rappers need to chamon. Yes,

(01:43:37):
very surreal night. Anyway, Thank you Spike who boo boo
boo Boa Ladies and gentlemen. I hope you enjoyed that
encore presentation of Spike Lee's interview on QLs Classic. Uh,
stay tuned for next go round when we asked more
questions about his history behind the count. Spike Lee Part
two come out next QLs Classic What's Love Supreme As

(01:44:03):
a production of My Heart Radio. This classic episode was
produced by the team at Padora. For more podcasts for
my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.