November 13, 2024 • 55 mins
RZA and Questlove connect for a special one-on-one interview that delves into leadership, creative originality, and some crucial Wu-Tang Clan history. RZA, who just released his Classical album, A Ballet Through Mud, reflects on making Wu's breakthrough single "Protect Ya Neck," his sample pioneering work on Raekwon's Only Built 4 Cuban Linx..., and how age has reinforced his growth, maturity, and purpose. This is the first half of a follow-up discussion between Quest' and The Abbott.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cost Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio, Ladies and Gentlemen.
So last week we did a special one on one
with Kathleen Hannah and you guys to check that out,
and we're here to do it again. Shout out to
the rest of the team Supreme. I'm here with one
(00:21):
of my hip hop peers, someone who lit a path
for me. He's a producer and author, film director and curator,
a world class performer, one of the best coaches in
hip hop. He's also releasing a classical music album, A
Ballet through Mud, inspired by some of his childhood lyrics,
(00:42):
and we're going to talk about that. Plus is illustrious
thirty plus years as a band leader, producer, His technique
is so much more. I can't believe that we finally
finally got the one and only Riza or in Court
Love Supreme. How you doing, sir?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Pace? Pace Pace is bog Bong and blessings and all.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That, Yo, you gotta tell me the history of bang
bong like I thought Tarik made that. When did bog
bong become your what I assume is your greeting and
your exit?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Now?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Well, bong bong is like you know, growing up in
my hood, me and my cousins and uh, you know
Staples in Project Ghosts. We have a conversation and the
conversation would have a little not that many words in it.
It'd be like, yo, son, No, I'm not pushed through
my name Bong quoting like that's bog bong.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You know what I name bog and what happened?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
All right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna make a woo
nomount of pier and say that bang bong is sort
of a wu tang version of an anamount of pier
like your your batman words bang bong bang by Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
That means that be thing. You know, it's good, There
is all good. Where is it at you feeling? Yeah?
Bang bong bong?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
We here? I got you, I got you. How you
doing today? Bro? How's it going for you? You're You're
in La right now as we speak.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, I'm in La right now. Q till just broke out.
We was brainstorming on some ideas. I know you already
shouted them out, real shouted them out, but we can't
shout it out enough. Congratulating them for the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame with Trial call Quest, It's just
such a to me, a blessing for hip hop in particular.
It's a blessing for them, of course, first and foremost,
(02:31):
but even a blessing for hip hop.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Each time one of us get inducted into that world.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
It just shows the validation of the culture are permeating,
you know, beyond its original thought scope at the end
of the day. Right in the beginning, it was like,
you know, certain things were unfathomable.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
We can't you couldn't imagine that what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
My first house is down the street from the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame, my first house in Cleveland, Ohio.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Cleveland, Okay, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Just seeing my pigs getting a chance to enter there,
it's a blessing. And yeah, I was just chopping up
with him, like before I jumped on with you.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Okay. It's rather notable that both you and him sort
of in the same space. For hip hop enthusiasts, at
least of my age, we always acknowledge that second week
of November. For a lot of hip hop hids, if
the beginning of the classic hip hop period starts, some
(03:35):
say either you know, it starts with criminal minded. A
lot of people feel as though the end of the
classic period is the double release of Midnight Marauders and
thirty six Chambers. I know of his story, especially with
his cannon. But for you, though, I would like to
(03:57):
know that particular day in November of nineteen ninety three
into the thirty six Chambers comes out. Are there any
sentimental memories that you have?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
You know, for us, we was actually on a promo
tour at the same time, right, so you know, I'll
recall all of us being in one of those fifteen
passer white fans just on the destination record store signing
or radio, you know, just on that promo tour. Imber,
you know, we had mo Jo with us. He represented
(04:31):
the radio for Loud Records in r C A.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Charm. I don't know if you remember. Charm used to
be from Tommy Boyce. She came up with the r
C A M.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
And I actually remember the kid Lee Royd, the guy
who we used to is just like probably heckle him
and dealing with the rule was was like you know,
I mean, it was a missing right and this day
was like I think our you know, even my.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
My feelings was, you know, I used the word elation.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I was late right, feeling like, wow, this this album
is being shared.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
With the world, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
And and you know, the confidence which was at the
highest level.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I gotta say that.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
You know, we didn't enter with our music without the
confidence of surety of that it was gonna be some.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Ship, you know what I mean. We was like, we
kind of like some ship. Yo, it's going it's gonna
fuck niggas up. Excuse my language, but this.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Is like, you know, you want to take me back
to that. You gotta take me back to the grid.
So it's like Nigga's gonna be screaming this ship.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You'll watch. We're gonna fuck him up. They're gonna shake niggas,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
We was on it, right, And the interesting thing that
happens by the evening, we're going to different record stores.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Snoop Dog comes out that day as well. I don't
know if you record.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That, Okay, I do you remember Doggy Style coming out
around November.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And either that day or the week before.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
But but Master Killer gets in the car with that,
you know what I mean, and throws that in you
know what I mean, and it's like, oh, okay, and
travers already was already family like, you know, our history
was already tied in so.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So you know, it was just one of those it was.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It was a great day for hip hop, to be
quite honest, you know what I mean, And listening to
those albums while.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
We're driving listening to our album, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
It was just like it felt like hip hop had
a chance again, because yo, how we felt.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I don't know if we talk about this a lot, but.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
You just you just point out, you know, criminal minded,
you know, talking about you know, Kim in eighty six,
Carris went eighty seven. You know, by the time we
got to ninety one, it wasn't happening like that no more, right,
you know, eighty seven and eighty nine you might have
got it, you know, ninety ninety one, it's it went
into a different chamber. And were very dissatisfied with that,
(06:49):
you know what I mean, and even ourselves when we
were striving to get out there.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It's like the.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Industry was trying to chase that shame. And when we
got a chance just to say, oh, we're doing hip
hop like you can't. And I didn't hope, I hope,
not hope. I hope, I hope not say this egotistically
quest but you can't not deny that even if Wu
Tang Clan eventually ends up in the Rock and Low
Hall of thing, right, but you can't deny that first album.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
The only category for it at that time was hip hop.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
You know what I mean, Like you could take some
of the albums and no disrespect, Like you could take
mc hammer and you could say that maybe it's funk,
maybe it's whatever it you know, that's because he's rapping
over it.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Don't make it hip hop. You see what I mean?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Now, with the rival of Wu Tang from my perspective,
especially the genius relentless way that you guys kind of
served us between ninety three and ninety five with the
five solo records, the group album, like it felt like okay,
hip hop is is steady, like this is this is
(07:53):
our lane? And little did we know, Like after nineteen
ninety seven, just a change happened in which it was
kind of like a tsunami with with where hip hop,
at least the hip hop culture that you and I
are used to, and a lot of that had to
do with sample clearances and you know, sort of people
(08:15):
seeing it as a business, whereas you know, we could
get away with whatever because not many people were looking
down our throats as creators. But then all of a sudden,
it's like you got to clear the snare and this
hook and all that stuff. But for you, in hindsight,
did you realize that the Wu Tang's entry was going
to sort of be the end of something that didn't
(08:35):
seem like it was ever going to end as far
as that particular spirit of hip hop is concerned.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I don't know if I saw that as the end,
because I think it waved right, it went, It came
in different forms even now some people say, well, Bizzelda
is a version of that, right, So you know, at
one point it was in odd future was another version
of that.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So I don't think it ended.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
But what is there?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
The spirit is there, but kind.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Of the the sad.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
But from my perspective, right, so being in it is different. Right,
So from my perspective, it's almost like it was like
we were counted. Okay, hip hop was counted by business,
countered by legalities and interpolation laws, counted even by how.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Can I say this hot ninety seven?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Like from Master Reflects Sat down with me, and you know,
he apologized to me, right, and he basically was like yo,
at the end of the day, you know, there was
an agenda to stop it, like to like to to
be like, YO, cut that off, turn this up, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And if you're you know.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
A white Castle burger is a white Castle burger, right,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
But they you know, we lined up for that, right,
not knowing the law something effect.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Of it versus something home cook. And so I'm naive,
to be quite frank with your brother, I'm pretty naive
about the world in a way because especially at that
time of my life, I'm focused on the world. I'm
trying to see right right, Like I'm a type of
dude that well.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
That's called living in the present, which is what it
should be doing, right Exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Until I saw five Deli Venoms back in Blockbuster, I
wasn't happy, you know what I mean, because it's like
I got to go to the bootlegs store for that,
you know what I mean. I wanted whatever we was
bringing to the culture to be a valuable you know
what I mean. I wanted to see a Spoting Man
movie or I Am Man movie, like so so it
was so I'm living in that narrow bubble of striving
(10:48):
to express to the world the childhood that I thought
was healthier and better creatively. Right, So then I don't
pay attention that I'm being countered. And even though I
was being counted, you know, and when I was loved,
I was being counted by my peers and even by
you know, by the system itself.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You know, I learned that years later. But fortunately, fortunately
for wo there's still a level.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Of purity in us as as people you know, like
ghost face is just always go these ghost face It's
like that's it. And so fortunately for that, whatever happened
out in the world or whatever was changing, we didn't
go so far. You know, they go too far to
chase you, you know what I mean, they ain't gonna say that,
and you know, look this way and look this way
(11:34):
and checked out, checked out, but you didn't go too
far to chase it.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
And I so, so I guess you know the answer
your question is like, in.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Hindsight, I didn't see the ending because it didn't end
in me. But in hindsight and learning what I know now,
it's like, man, motherfuckers was actually trying to kick me
out the room.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I feel you so right now. I'm working on the Earth,
Wind and Fire documentary, and a lot of what I
know about your modus operandi is sort of parallel with
where Maurice White was informing Earth would in fire, him
(12:17):
using astrology, him having an affinity for the number nine, literally,
like him writing manifesting a manifesto of what he wants
the group to do, what he wants the group to achieve,
things that I've known you've done as far as like
(12:38):
planning out what I'm going to organize, who's going to
be in the circle, and how we're going to do it.
Like a lot of cats don't know that that's metaphysics
or manifesting, but that's exactly how Maurice White structured Earth
would in Fire. Like I don't know if I'm necessarily
a coach in the way that you were a coach,
(12:59):
but how exhausting is it, especially in those first five years,
How exhausting is it in being the head coach or
the the facto leader of this empire? First of all,
(13:21):
why nine members for the Wu Tang Clint?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Was that on purpose or was that just like who
was there.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
No, No, At first it was eight right.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Okay, I understand Master Killer's situation, so I still count
him in terms of.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Oh he became nine by the time.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
You know, first it was eight, right, like the eight
points on the star, right, Okay, that's why. That's why
I look, I sai, I'm the seven in the center
of the eight point star.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
So a lot of things that was aspiring me was mathematics,
knowledge of self, knowing.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That a determined idea is his power was a nuclear bomb.
In fact, it took a determinent idea to make can
nuclear ball. So having that impulse over me, and knowing
that the MC's that was in my community that I
was friends with buddies where it had demo tapes with,
knowing that the industry actually needed it in my opinion,
(14:16):
like the industry needed a joke of the real people
that's living it, right, and not just some of the
people and and hope helping out saying this in a
non offensive way, but not just some of the.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
People who was like already in or who went through
their experience.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It's like crazy thing about Wu Tang that's kind of
crazy than it's it's.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Seven felons in ute mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So that's that's the people that's written off, you know
what I mean, it's probably man, it might be eight
high school dropouts, you know what I'm saying. So this
is the people that that ain't gonna get a chance
in all reality. And yet this is the people that's
that's loving hip hop, living hip hop right, their lyrics
and misspelling the words in some phases, you know what
(15:04):
I mean. And to my ear and to my knowledge
of the of the industry itself, I was like, Nah,
this band of MC's right can naturally come through and
rock the world. And I was and I'll have the
validation of course of the USA in od B right,
I have thedation as well, meaning they agreed and when
(15:26):
the rest of the klan agreed to the idea, right,
and we all live by mathematics.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Who says, once you make an.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Agreement, you got to live up to that, you know,
I mean, you got to live through your world. Your
world is your bond. Right, So once we agree that this,
you know that this idea, this course of action is
the course of action to take to go ahead, and
you know we're and we're starving for domination, like that
wasn't a target for us, right, a target to be
number one U once once we agree that we're going
(15:55):
to do that, and then somebody at the front of
of the of the sphere at that time, I was
like the tip of the spear. I see the target.
I just need y'all to fit the force behind me,
you know what I mean with that aspiration and inspiration.
Yes that I saw that clearly, even if nobody else
saw it, right, Because sometimes you may ask another rouple
member that you said, now he didn't see it, or
(16:16):
he didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
See it here once and y'all saw it, or once
y'all believe.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Did they believe you? Like were they all in the
room at the same time, or was it just like
sort of some Hollywood Yeah, let's do lunch it like okay,
we'll make a record like.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We gather it, we build you know.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I verbalized it, you know, and look one of the
Timple quotes of it that I.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Used for always. I'm a god of analogies, So my
analogy to them was like.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yo, the only way we're going to get there is
if you guys, let me drive the bus with no
questions and you always be the passengers, and I promise
I'll get us there, but I don't need nobody, like
it has to be a dictatorship in all reality.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
That was that was like, that's what I need, right,
because I'm gonna with outfls okay, given moment, you know,
I mean, anybody can knock anybody out if it's on
like that.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Because there's no chumps here.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
It's all we're bill men, right, So therefore conflict can't
exist because the conflict would be self destruction. And so
we all got to agree that the abbot is driving
the bus and when we get there, I said, I
need five years to get there though, And when I
get there then it's cool. And we got there, right,
(17:32):
But everybody agreed, and even when it got a little
weird here or weird there, the agreement always came up.
And in the reaffirmation of the agreement. So so these
four other brothers like nah Son, that ain't right because
we gave our word, right, you know. And so so
that's I mean, that's a long answer to the question.
(17:54):
But let me add on one mother, one other thing.
When you talk about you know how winning fire yourself,
you know, Maurice White, yourself myself as this coach position. Yeah,
it's taxing. It's not easy, you know. I had a
lyric about it. I said something about I said, rhyming
to me is easier than breathing, and making beasts for
(18:17):
me is easier than peeing.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
But fucking with the Wu Tang clan, it's like riding
down a thousand foot hill through pine trees and snow
on one ski.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I see that, right, But I know that right, right.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We take that ride. So it was tough, right, and
it was tough.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I will never deny that I got you, but it
was actually in hindsight now and living as the man
I am today, it was also the greatest forging of
myself that I ever could have gotten, Like I would
not be the father I am, the man that I
am if those experiences didn't happen in my life. If
(19:04):
those whether there was arguments or challenges or even submissions
to ideas, if I didn't experience that, right, It's like
my best example, I was doing my film, right, I
had one of people working for me yo, right, I
have a list actors, and I had all these personalities.
If I didn't have already dealt with that in my
(19:25):
youth with the WU I wouldn't know how to deal
with it then, right, And and the way I handled it,
the executives they gave me another job because it's like, Yo,
this guy could handle some shit.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Do you ever have self doubts because of everything you've done?
I mean, I'm talking about scoring directing, Like, have you
ever met a challenge in which you were sort of like,
I'm not sure?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I mean, and of course, right, but I would just
say that if there's a solution that exists, I strived
for the solution.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I remember when we were as young, they say nobody
is perfect, right, And when I was about seventeen eighteen
years old, I had already you know, I knew one
hundred and twenty lessons already. So one of the twenty lessons,
you know what that is? I gotta spain that, right. So,
and then brothers move on to what they call plus lessons.
And with plus lessons, you know, you're you're learning outside
(20:23):
of the teachings, right, Other brothers contribution to the teachings.
And then I became started writing my own, right, and
so I wrote one called Striving for Perfection, right, And
as I was getting this out, of my system. The
question was, we always say that somebody is imperfect, But
if I accept that I'm imperfect, then I'll never have perfection.
(20:46):
So I can so I gotta know, I got to
accept that I'm perfect, that there is a solution to perfection.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Right, and if there is that, then I can be that,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
And so by writing that out into a textual form
and reading it and passing it to my students and
memorizing it and quoting it, it gave me an extra
level of confidence of like, you know what, at the
end of the day, there's a mathematical solution to it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
And when I say mathematical, mathematical.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Could be a physical, spiritual, emotional, social, economic, right, mental.
It ain't just arithmetical, you know what I mean, or
adding division and subtracting.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
It's almost like, yo, that might require a spiritual solution.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
That might BEQUI your economic solution, right, that might be
QUI your physical solution, you.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And so knowing that and being confident that those solutions exist, yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
And I always say our perator is due to a law.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I could go into those bags and bring that and
utilize it to find that answer.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And I'll just say this last piece on it.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Artistically though, it's like art duties in the eye of
the behold the right.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So first I gotta just see it as being beautiful,
all right?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I take that. Do you have a spiritual practice of
meditation or like, do you write affirmations down?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Or is it just something in you, a confidence in
you that says I'm gonna achieve that.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Yes, it's it's internal now right at this age. Right,
And I'm gonna keep going to mathematics on this conversation.
I don't have good a chance.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I understand it.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Good hit me once a man hits forty, right, according
to mathematics. For us, for freedom, culture and freedom right,
culture's your way of life. Freedom is the freeer dome
from ignorance and foolishness that keeps you dumb or numb
to the world.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
So if you have culture and freedom right, you get
your forties, you now should be free from.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
All that other shit that you dealt with.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Physically free, you know what I mean, because your body
is already now evolved. And so once that happened in
my life, I accepted that. So I accept every mathematic
of my life in my thirties. It says three is
for understanding. So you got to understand what you're going through.
So first you got to understand knowledge, understand wisdom, right,
(23:12):
understand even understanding that.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So therefore your understanding becomes what understood. Right, got to
understand coach.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
All these different degrees, I keep those applied to myself,
and therefore I'm able to forecast myself or at least
know where I'm at in space and time.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And that's a big equation for us with man, women
and child.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Strive to always know where you're at in space and time.
Some dudes are still in the nineties or the two thousands,
like hold on, son, take a look where you're at
in the space and time now right now, and then
also know where the rest of your cipher is and
the rest of the things are around you. So of
course our.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Lesson teach just a fast and to pray. So yeah,
faster than prayer is healthy, right, super healthy.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
But the first lesson is knowledge, it says do Knowledge
is not just a word of uh. That's why Kim
said right in the lyric, no, the ledge, but knowledge
becomes an act, a physical act, right, so it ain't
just reading. So the mathematics that knowledge is to look, listen, observe,
(24:19):
and also respect. Now you may look at something, you
may listen to something, but did you observe it?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And did you respect it?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And if you miss any of those components, you're not
doing the knowledge because knowledge is the basics foundation and
off that foundation of walking into a room and look first,
who observed it?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You know what I mean? You listen and you respected it?
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
That's part of my uh, you know, spiritual affirmation. I
guess that ask your question and my my surety of
my movements.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So what does that mean for you now that you're
fifty five? Right?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
So now power power, that's truth top of truth. That's
why I'm talking like this now. I wouldn't even have
spoke like this because I would have kept it more personal,
right Like even when I just said to you earlier
about yoall they told me that they shut the door
on me yo, and they apologized to that, and I'm
cool with that.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I remember I told one of my peers.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
He was like, Yo, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Sabotaged your whole shit. I said, yeah, you kind of
fucked me up for like a week. That's it.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I believe that you're speaking of the infamous Hot ninety
seven summer stage incident. See I was in Europe at.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
That time, so I said, yeah, you guys, wasn't in Europe.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
We were, I mean we were living in Europe for
like six months, six to seven months, especially during the summer.
But so basically, an incident happened in Hot ninety seven
that rubbed them the wrong way, and they were basically like,
we're not playing you guys anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Basically, first of all, we were sabotaged, which is cool.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Happened.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Hey, that's a fight fight, you know, it's like the
five heart Beat. Remember before they came out and guy
was like.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
This next bancterd, they're better than the Temptations.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And trying to monkey minch it right and Yo, at
the end of the day, you know, a couple of
members spoke up on that on the spot, fuck that
you're fuck y'all right, because at the end of the day,
one of the members was like, yo, fuck Hot nice
on the mic to the crowd. Get the crowd. Yeah,
it goes like for Hot ninety seven, right, So they
(26:28):
took that personal, but in reality, Bhutang built.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Hot ninety seven.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
True.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Okay, So all of a sudden, you're trying to tell
us that we got to do this and change that
when when we are, we're the one that brought to
your audience. Right, the audience is the proof of the
pudding is that we got thirty thousand kids in front
of us, right, not just from a summer jam.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You're on tour, raised against the machine.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
So we are still that power magnetic to audiences. And
yet you're not spending our mute because we didn't hit
you with a hook.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
My first song didn't have no hook. He was gonna
hit you with a hook when we ready.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
To hit you with a hook, protecting that had no hook,
we won't Tryum, this is lyricism. But when they pulled
the plug, it's a it's a chain reaction though they's
just first, that's that's our biggest New York was the
biggest market, right, and it's all a trend setting market,
right and then em It's at the same time had
sister stations, So yo, we plug pull it here, we
(27:26):
pull it here, and Homeboy over here. We're gonna pull
it over here too, right, and that's all good, Like
I said. The funny thing about it is, you know,
as it's now explained to me or even apologize or
even admitted to I. Just like I said, I'm so
naive and sh like I said, I was why he
fucked up for like a week.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And it ain't mean nothing to me, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Because it never governed what I was doing. It never
made me be who I am. That's something that artists
sometimes lose faith.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Well, and you were outsiders anyway, so it's not like
that didn't matter. You existed because you found ways to
get in without the mainstream, right right.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And also the add to that, we also existed because
we were us. But it's almost like, look, most people
are not gonna be able to get the s, the
twelve tables. They gotta like you gotta work up to
that Gemini. Yeah, you might not even know what that is,
right right. So it's just like, Yo, I'm okay, I'm
(28:25):
okay being rare.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I'm gonna being like you gotta come over here to
get that.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Here's the strange connection between you and nine that Rage tour.
We wound up replacing you guys on the Rage Tour.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I got it. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Number one that literally changed our lives. Like that helped
me buy a house, which subsequently helped me buy equipment,
then help me by you know, helped me make things
fall apart, like literally, you know, at that time, we
were sort of living hand to mouth, gig the gig.
(29:09):
You know, we're cool this week, We're gonna be broke
next week, hopefully a gig comes in. Oh, we got
a gig. We'll make it. But that was the first
time that we were able to sustain monetarily.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
At least consistency.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
That helped. Yeah, that helped in ways you don't even matter.
So that was a blessing to me. But in hindsight,
I always wonder because you know, you guys are beetles
and are rolling stones. So it's like, do you wish
that you guys had seen that tour all the way through?
(29:44):
Because I would imagine that you guys would have just
toured the world, and really it would have been just
another level, a higher level of madness for you guys. Yeah,
I'm happy how it turned out, why I'm here right now.
Literally that that that changed my life. But from your perspective,
do you wish that you like saw that tour through.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
First of all, I'm glad that as you tell me
that I didn't know that that our era because we
made an error that was wrong for us not to
complete that tool, you.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Know what I mean. It was a miscompulation by the
crew right not to do that.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
And at the end of the day, that's the outfulness
of whoa if you really look at it. The promise
was given to me in nineteen ninety two. This is
nineteen ninety seven. The time is up, okay, And it
was acts in a democratic way. First of all, it
was happening like even without like on some of those
(30:42):
on some nights of that tour.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
You may see only father of us there, yea.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
And so it was already starting to be like yo,
brothers come in and out when they when they was
feeling it, you know what I mean. But then it
was like yo, you do we want to I think
it was in Chicago, was like you want to stay
on the tour or not?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And we took a vote and brothers want it off.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Right. Do you think that that whole experience was just
jarring for them to get to that level. Do you
think that there was just a fear of seeing it
through was it just too much because my first night
of that ship, I was scared to death, like all
those kids jumping in. What the fuck is this?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Right?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
I think in hindsight, I've heard some of the brothers
bring that up, like maybe there was some type of
fears and somebody. The plan was this toward raids in
the summer m m. And then we hit the colleges
during the homecoming season.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Mm hm, right, But I think the crew wanted to.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Go home first. They wanted to fill this called the
Black Law first. When we dropped the new album, right,
they wanted to start there. I say, now, don't start there,
because that's what we left for at right, So let's
start here and they come back around.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
To get the international first and then come.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
And the connection of those type of big concerts, especially
when you're young, right, both big concerts. If you're not, like,
how can I explain this? Look, some artists need to
like have their leg touched by the person in a
thousand seedar like they need to they need to smell it. Yeah,
(32:21):
And some artists could fucking sit in the middle of
the stage empty on a stool with thirty thousand people
in front of them and just play their guitar and
and and hit.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
You with the Jannet chaplain, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Right, And so in us we had that mix of
those who would be that way like like, you know,
I'm probably more of a I'm probably the rock and
roll energy of the crew, you know what I mean,
the sense of that methods also the stadium energy of
the crew, right, are more like yo, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Knock you out street hustler club of the crew.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
So because of that, because of that type of energy
at that point in our lives, you know, twenty five
years old, twenty six years old, whatever, I think that
it may have been some type of I don't know.
I don't use the word fear, but definitely uncomfortability. But
I'm all say this, and I said it a hundred
times and I'll say it again.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
It was an I'm going to circle your whole career.
But I have to know the night that you made
protect your neck. One, how long did that session take?
And two? How did you determine the sort of format
of the song? Because you know, you Got has eight
(33:33):
bars and Old Dirty has twenty four bars and just
that has twenty four. But Go says sixteen, Like, how
did you measure and plan that out? Like as far
as the order is concerned, and no hook or none
of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Well, it was a two day session. Actually.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
That was one of those songs where you got to
come back to the studio, right, Okay, fact ghost went
home and rewrote this verse.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
There's another version with a different verse. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Well at the time, he was also boast was going through.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Ghost was also evolved in right, right, Dirty was evolved,
was evolved, you know what I mean. Meth and Deck
and Ray Ray was amazing, right when Ray didn't have
a lot of bars written, he had stopped writing for
some years. Kind of interesting, but I just know Ghosts
was like, you know because when he's from Stables and
(34:25):
they from Park Hills.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
So he was like, yo, I got it.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
I got to go back and and come with my
stables and shit, right, just coming from Brooklyn, Dirty coming
from Brooklyn. So it was like you had that competition, right,
But for me, I kind of had a knowledge of
their voices as instruments, right, and then also had a
knowledge of the potency of the lyric to be quite frank, Yeah,
I edited I edited some shit, Yo, got it?
Speaker 2 (34:51):
You know? What I mean to be quite frank, I
was like, boom boop, chop that chop that. Now that
I got the structure.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Right, just go kill it.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You see what I'm saying, got it?
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Because really that had probably twenty four bars right and
the beat straight with your quest?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So do you have a version of the song in
which is the complete the original?
Speaker 3 (35:13):
The original for Tech your Neck really was an inspected
deck track that we had recorded prior called It's not
your average flow, okay, And so what happened was I
had that track and we were like, yo, this, take
that track to the studio. That beat was killing. Let
(35:34):
deck kill that. I'm gonna make that the joint. But
in the studio I was like nah, nah, And that
actually took the sample out of it, and we made
the whole track from like from scratch and like and realized,
which is interesting, I would say this to you. I
took the samples out and I just played the base
line and then took all the little samples and this
was like doing it like that more like versus yeah,
(35:57):
doing it manually. And the reason why you won't a
version of that because there's only a sixteen track of
machine at that time we had, and so therefore we
got two guys on the same track. It's just like
the hook is on another track, that dirty is gonna
come on that same track, and it's no other place
to put that at. There's the other place to put
(36:18):
my curses or the blocks or the curses.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I guess like I have to do it right. Yeah,
but you know, you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Know, I'm quite sure you probably had a four track
growing up as well.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I love that dirtiness, so I still collect for a
track machines and cassettes like I vow like one day
Tarika and I are gonna make the record that we
used to make it, like we used to always make
albums in our bedroom, you know, before we got a
deal and all that stuff. But I still dream of
making just the dirtiest, stinkiness sonic sounding record, Like that's
(36:52):
my dream.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
But let me ask a quick question if you don't mine,
I know, yeah, you know. First of all, let me
just say thank you for inviting me to the podcast.
Glad we found time to do it.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
This should be my second or third visit.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
First, I was waiting for you, man, I was I
was patient.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
You guys are credited, and I think I can't find
another physical form of it. I know that sept the
Sonic called themselves the hip hop band, but you guys
are really the first official hip hop band. I know
the Fujis may have a little bit of say so
in some of that she as well, but you guys
are the first official.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I just want to know.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
My question to you is, like, you know, coming up
as a musician, you came up as a drummer.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Am I correct?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yes, started as a drummer.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
So what was like?
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yeah, she that's like, Yo, I'm a drummer. It ain't
no sampler. I'm gonna play the drums and we're gonna
make a fucking hip hop album. What was in your mind?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
What's weird? And I'm not even blowing smoke or or whatever,
but you and Dilla taught me shit about the drums,
because the thing is is that, you know, especially with
black drummers, after the Richard Nixon era, now before the
Richard Nixon era, what you had was you had migrants
(38:08):
of families moving to the Midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Chicago, Detroit.
They had these great factory jobs that enabled them to
buy houses. And in these houses, of course, garage bands
are starting in the garage, in the den, schooling, you
(38:31):
learned an instrument, and then all that shit got cut
in nineteen seventy three, of course, and that's where hip
hop culture starts and what happens around Like I'll say,
like eighty one eighty two, the true place that a
black musician could express themselves was the church, you know.
And what's weird is that if every musician you know
(38:51):
in your neighborhood is that church waiting for their chance
to get you know, there'd be eight drummers, five keyboard players,
five guitarists, and they're all waiting in the wings, like
when's my turn? When's my turn? What starts to happen
is this this where we are? It's sold now, like
the reason why you can't find a group of black
(39:13):
musicians to play like Al Jackson and the Stacks house
Band sort of like because I always wonder, like, yo,
don't musicians now know that if you record some shit,
like when I record some shit on record, I want
to underplay it so that way future is this future
(39:34):
Dyla's future? Whoever? I mean, it could be silent the
creator that they'll be Like that's the part I want
to sample. But what happens is church musicianship made it
this evil Knievel shit where it's like I gotta show
you that I can play my ass off in eight
seconds this whole you know what I mean. And it's
(39:58):
like like we're used to it now because every musician
is a church drummer. But for me, I wanted to
sound like like the Stacks box set that really set
your legacy. I too wanted to sound like that, so
like and I'm talking about the filler cuts, fish knowledge, God,
(40:19):
the way them drums sound so dirty, like that's what
I was. I'm like, this is this there's feeling to it,
you know what I mean. Until that phase of hip
hop came in three like the renaissance period of hip
hop came like for me, I thought, damn man, like
(40:41):
I got to keep up with these other like dar devils. Okay,
the question I always wanted to ask you of all
your work, like you know how when you purchased a
classic hip hop album, like when shit comes out like
classic shit like the day that Longly the Cane came
(41:01):
out and Tarik and I are like in my house
together like staring at the speaker, having listening sessions and
almost discussions as each song goes by, like especially on
the tour of Bus. Nothing paralyzed me more than verbal intercourse.
What happened was dirty was in Stockholm, Sweden. He did
(41:23):
a show that Friday night or that Saturday and left
behind in the dressing room the purple tape. Mind you,
we have been living in Europe and like going through
the shit like and this before the Internet and all
(41:45):
that shit. So we were literally living off of brand
Ubians Everything is Everything, the main ingredient by Pete Rock
and see how Smooth.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
To cal.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
It was like five cassettes that kept us alive insane
during that whole like run and he had a pre
copy of Cuban Links which was like, you know, we
could have cried tears of joy, like we got new
hip hop. Like I can't believe this because minds, you
were in Europe. It's not like oh yeah, dude, when
(42:18):
we got to verbal intercourse, we had to stop the tapement.
It's like, yo, are they allowed to just rhyme over
people talking like that? Like what the fuck for? Our listeners?
Still don't know emotions? If you if you say, you
might as well do it. The beginning loop is literally
like Wanda hutchisoning, I don't want to love him, but
(42:38):
what if he hurts me? And like literally was rule breaking,
And we had like a twenty minute discussion like wait
a minute, are they allowed to rhyme over people talking?
It was almost like we wanted to take y'all to
deposition court to see if that was allowed in the
world of music. Now we have equipment that can erase
vocals and just you know all that shit, But what
(43:02):
were you thinking when you loot that ship.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Well, by the time we got to that point of
Cuba Links, I think lyricism, our ego and our ability
to hear from all the other songs we've created and
all the things that we now showed to the world
was getting to a higher level. What I mean by
that is that at one point, no, you couldn't rhyme
(43:27):
while somebody else was talking because you couldn't even consciously
do it, right, Okay, But now our mastery of space
and cadens is there, right, so becuse then time it
could be I've lined to it first, right, so I
know it could be, yeah, doctor, whether I do it
(43:49):
to them in the space or whether I just do it.
I make sure that it can be rhyme too. That's
the reason why I made it right. So by that
time we got to there the.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
But what if he I want to love him? But
what it's like?
Speaker 3 (44:02):
It was to me, it was like that was part
of the beat and all I did and I just
added bevy wiz snarres.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
The problem with that track was.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Because it wasn't there was no problem.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
No, I'll said the problem as a producer for me, right,
it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Really it was unquantizable.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
I know, okay, right, So if you look at it,
the chick you can't make a beat on a beat
machine with it. You gotta hit sit there and hit
the fucking sit every fucking time on the track.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
So you took the quantizer off.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, fuck the quantizer.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Here's the thing though, So on the first album I
was like, all right, y'all, is there is a goddamn
genius or did he just read the first three pages
of the manual and decided to wing the west. We
had a term called the accidental tourist. Right in making
our first album, you know, I would have to play
to a click track and sort of fluctuate, and then
(44:59):
you know, my producer Rich would be like, ah, man,
do that pass again. That wasn't right, And I was like,
nah man, Like you know, accidental tourist. You know that's
hip hop. He's like, nah man, like we ain't doing
no woo shit, like perfect that shit. And you know,
for the longest I was looking for an excuse to
(45:20):
just break the rules. A good example was Johnny Taylor
has a break call you think I'd do it, which
has a break at the beginning to do someone offered
me beat some breaks and it's so sloppy in the beginning,
and like that's what I was trying to inch towards
and for you, especially with the sloppiness of everything, Like
(45:42):
for me, that just gave me the green light.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Like because the crazy thing is that for me, I
always know the time right because it's my time. I
remember we was hanging and I had a couple of
chicks with me. One knew me since high school, so
she knew sin I was fourteen years old, right, And
then some other dudes there and they're trying to show
off they knew how to play the piano, all.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Nice and all this ship right, and they got.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
They was doing their little R and B sucker ship
I called the sucker shit back then.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Now I'm cool with.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
It because we make sure all right.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Then I jump on it and I do my ship right.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
And yet the chicks felt what I was doing interesting, right,
But then the one chick was like, he has no tempo,
and the chick that knew be said, no, he's always
been on his own time. Like and when I say that,
so you listen to Brain the Ruckers, bro I'm hitting
every snaire on Brain the Ruckers.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Jesus Christ, it's like, I feel like there's gunshots and yeah, And.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
For me, it's almost like I thought that a sound
time could be changed at any moment based on the pulse.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
You feel me.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
So if I gonna get that's that right.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
But if I goa uh huh uh, the post is changing,
it's changing the time.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Okay, so that's possible. I could post what the fuck
I want to post and it to change the time.
That's why I'm bringing the Rutgers. When ghost goes one way,
but then in the middle of a sound, it changes,
in the middle of the bar Ray goes, it changes,
and it doesn't really make this until the hook comes.
And then when that comes on this now it's in
the groove, but then just goes out.
Speaker 5 (47:26):
Of the groove by the time he goes a mother
other than slave Man Boost LOUDI Cruz, I'm fucking up
the MC shoots and break Plumper sample Ship with our stump, right,
he said, since the day he recorded it.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
So every time we perform, he don't want to perform.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
He said, Yo, God, I never could catch that time
you put there.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
So the question I have for you is the day
that the Grave Diggers album comes out, Philadelphia, legendary DJ
cosmik Keev tells me, like, Yo, he predicted that ship
was going to go gangbusters, like shout out to my
man g from Jersey who were all heavy, we're promoting
you guys like they wanted him to play. Of course,
(48:13):
nowhere to run, nowhere to hide and all that stuff.
But why didn't you guys release bang your Head as
a single, because that Ship, to me was just like
that was the single that could have brought you guys
over the top.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Jason, you said that because at the time, right, bio
has it. Yes, Okay, so I think bio Hazard was
really bubbling right.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
In fact, the Grave Niggas was doing days.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
With bio has its just to let you know, Okay,
I think that in a way it was it was
it was the rock energy that scared the label right
when you got because you got you got fru Klon,
Prince Rakin or the Rustler at the time, you got it, you.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Got Prince Paul, right, you got hip hop. They called
it a super group at the time, right, mm hmm.
And also I.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Think that the label wanted to chase the wool, right,
and so I just think it was a miscalculation because
they was they were trying to chase the wolf. So
with the sample nowhere to run through suicide that we're
chasing that where bang your head is almost you know
what the fuck that is.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
And it's it's just it's just it was just a
ball of energy.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
But I do think that the Grave Diggers were such
an awkward it was.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
An awkward style of hip hop.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
I mean, it wasn't it was almost like it wasn't
a lot of MC's going there like that, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I mean they had they called.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
It horror.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
We felt that that song would have brought that to
the legitimate Yes, like we heard about horrorcore, but we
felt that that song is gonna be the the flag
planning song that really would have set that off, and
it never came to fruition. And I always wanted to
know why because I used to play that relentlessly. That
(50:12):
used to be my first record when I would DJ, and.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Able didn't get with that.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
You know, it's so crazy, though, I would say one thing,
it never failed at a live show when we got
Also when we did that shit, it was fucking I
even remember evident from Bile Hazard like want to come join,
and I like the energy that that shit used to
bring was crazy.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
I have a theory about when people upgrade their like
instruments or whatever, what exactly happened as far as the
flooding is concerned of your original studio and is that
sort of why the chapter ends with I mean, I
(50:55):
guess you could say look with swords or not, you know,
because the sound of Wu Tang Forever was night and day.
It was more polish sound. But what what what exactly
happened flooding lines that stopped you from using that particular equipment.
Speaker 3 (51:10):
First of all, tribbling links, liquid swords, maybe two or
three tracks off of Iron Man because after that, because
what happened was once I did the child, I didn't
want to go back to the studio no more.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
I don't like how the cow came out.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
I'll tell you why why even now. No, I didn't
like how it came out. I mean I loved it,
but I didn't. I mean I liked it, but I
didn't love them put it that way because I had
an engineer that tried to go by the book.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
So I had to fight to get the sound to
it that way.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
If you listen to I get my thing an action.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
If you just turned down one fatal bro, the whole
beat falls apart. But you gotta know that, and the
engineer don't know that. And and remember back in those days,
we're not really touching the boards.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
As we touch the boards, fight to.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Touch the board. You got to send that dude to
the store or something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
But by the time we got to I got your back, right.
And then you go to Cuba Links and Liquord Sports.
It's my own studio, it's my house. I got every
compressor already preset to their voices. I checked the compressor.
I knew that I wanted his voice like that, right,
(52:25):
Everybody got their own settings the two inches here the speakers,
I had k kades, but I have the bigger ones,
which was pretty with place but made sense back then, right,
And when the flood came, it wiped it out right,
the two witch machine, the boards still lived, the hardware,
(52:46):
all that felt, you know what I mean. And then
I had to finish iron Man inside the studio which
is called Mystic Studios. So now I'm in the studio
again and I'm dealing with.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
The studio fucking uh chamber.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
So some of the iron Man you got some original sound,
well some of it you can see like, okay, it's changing.
And then by the time you get to wuchank forever.
Oh no, we we we we.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
We build a new studio and we recording in la
at the same time. So now we pain ponding.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
But I would challenge this to you for your ear
if you get a chance, and maybe we could talk
about it next week. Listen to the tap of Donna
South of the Border, Okay, right, and let me know,
does that remind you of the sound from ninety three,
ninety four, ninety five, because to me, that was like
my last time like setting my parameters up to that,
(53:44):
you know what I mean? Sampling that twenty two point
one or seventeen point nine like Chanda my sample bit
it was like the last time I did it, and
I was.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Like, man, this this We played it in the office
for the staff.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
Everybody was like, that's you need to make more of those,
Like that's the sound. That's that's unique Wu Tang sound.
That that that that the world is used to versus.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Run, which I said, No, I like run which was
run was the was the curse? But run was the curse.
Speaker 3 (54:09):
Well, Sampler, it wasn't the ASR sent you know what
I mean. I was kind of moving over to Churst well,
like you said, upgrading my ship.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
But yeah, well brother, I appreciate you even let me
get this far. God willing, we will continue with our
talk with the one and only Risa the average of
Wu Tang Clan. Thank you very much, brother brother, Thank
you for listening to The Quest Love Supreme Closter to
buy Amir Quest Love Thompson, Lia Saint Clair Sugar, Steve Mandell,
(54:44):
and Unpaid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are Mayor, Quest Loved, Thompson,
Sean che Brian Calhoun, Produced by Brittany Benjamin Cousin Jake
Payinne and Liah Saint Clair. Edited by Alex Convoy, Produced
by iHeart by Noel Brown. Post Club Supreme is a
(55:13):
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Cost Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio, Ladies and Gentlemen.
So last week we did a special one on one
with Kathleen Hannah and you guys to check that out,
and we're here to do it again. Shout out to
the rest of the team Supreme. I'm here with one
(00:21):
of my hip hop peers, someone who lit a path
for me. He's a producer and author, film director and curator,
a world class performer, one of the best coaches in
hip hop. He's also releasing a classical music album, A
Ballet through Mud, inspired by some of his childhood lyrics,
(00:42):
and we're going to talk about that. Plus is illustrious
thirty plus years as a band leader, producer, His technique
is so much more. I can't believe that we finally
finally got the one and only Riza or in Court
Love Supreme. How you doing, sir?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Pace? Pace Pace is bog Bong and blessings and all.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That, Yo, you gotta tell me the history of bang
bong like I thought Tarik made that. When did bog
bong become your what I assume is your greeting and
your exit?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Now?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Well, bong bong is like you know, growing up in
my hood, me and my cousins and uh, you know
Staples in Project Ghosts. We have a conversation and the
conversation would have a little not that many words in it.
It'd be like, yo, son, No, I'm not pushed through
my name Bong quoting like that's bog bong.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You know what I name bog and what happened?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
All right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna make a woo
nomount of pier and say that bang bong is sort
of a wu tang version of an anamount of pier
like your your batman words bang bong bang by Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
That means that be thing. You know, it's good, There
is all good. Where is it at you feeling? Yeah?
Bang bong bong?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
We here? I got you, I got you. How you
doing today? Bro? How's it going for you? You're You're
in La right now as we speak.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, I'm in La right now. Q till just broke out.
We was brainstorming on some ideas. I know you already
shouted them out, real shouted them out, but we can't
shout it out enough. Congratulating them for the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame with Trial call Quest, It's just
such a to me, a blessing for hip hop in particular.
It's a blessing for them, of course, first and foremost,
(02:31):
but even a blessing for hip hop.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Each time one of us get inducted into that world.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
It just shows the validation of the culture are permeating,
you know, beyond its original thought scope at the end
of the day. Right in the beginning, it was like,
you know, certain things were unfathomable.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
We can't you couldn't imagine that what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
My first house is down the street from the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame, my first house in Cleveland, Ohio.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Cleveland, Okay, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Just seeing my pigs getting a chance to enter there,
it's a blessing. And yeah, I was just chopping up
with him, like before I jumped on with you.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Okay. It's rather notable that both you and him sort
of in the same space. For hip hop enthusiasts, at
least of my age, we always acknowledge that second week
of November. For a lot of hip hop hids, if
the beginning of the classic hip hop period starts, some
(03:35):
say either you know, it starts with criminal minded. A
lot of people feel as though the end of the
classic period is the double release of Midnight Marauders and
thirty six Chambers. I know of his story, especially with
his cannon. But for you, though, I would like to
(03:57):
know that particular day in November of nineteen ninety three
into the thirty six Chambers comes out. Are there any
sentimental memories that you have?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
You know, for us, we was actually on a promo
tour at the same time, right, so you know, I'll
recall all of us being in one of those fifteen
passer white fans just on the destination record store signing
or radio, you know, just on that promo tour. Imber,
you know, we had mo Jo with us. He represented
(04:31):
the radio for Loud Records in r C A.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Charm. I don't know if you remember. Charm used to
be from Tommy Boyce. She came up with the r
C A M.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
And I actually remember the kid Lee Royd, the guy
who we used to is just like probably heckle him
and dealing with the rule was was like you know,
I mean, it was a missing right and this day
was like I think our you know, even my.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
My feelings was, you know, I used the word elation.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I was late right, feeling like, wow, this this album
is being shared.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
With the world, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
And and you know, the confidence which was at the
highest level.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I gotta say that.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
You know, we didn't enter with our music without the
confidence of surety of that it was gonna be some.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Ship, you know what I mean. We was like, we
kind of like some ship. Yo, it's going it's gonna
fuck niggas up. Excuse my language, but this.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Is like, you know, you want to take me back
to that. You gotta take me back to the grid.
So it's like Nigga's gonna be screaming this ship.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You'll watch. We're gonna fuck him up. They're gonna shake niggas,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
We was on it, right, And the interesting thing that
happens by the evening, we're going to different record stores.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Snoop Dog comes out that day as well. I don't
know if you record.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That, Okay, I do you remember Doggy Style coming out
around November.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And either that day or the week before.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
But but Master Killer gets in the car with that,
you know what I mean, and throws that in you
know what I mean, and it's like, oh, okay, and
travers already was already family like, you know, our history
was already tied in so.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So you know, it was just one of those it was.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It was a great day for hip hop, to be
quite honest, you know what I mean, And listening to
those albums while.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
We're driving listening to our album, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
It was just like it felt like hip hop had
a chance again, because yo, how we felt.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I don't know if we talk about this a lot, but.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
You just you just point out, you know, criminal minded,
you know, talking about you know, Kim in eighty six,
Carris went eighty seven. You know, by the time we
got to ninety one, it wasn't happening like that no more, right,
you know, eighty seven and eighty nine you might have
got it, you know, ninety ninety one, it's it went
into a different chamber. And were very dissatisfied with that,
(06:49):
you know what I mean, and even ourselves when we
were striving to get out there.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It's like the.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Industry was trying to chase that shame. And when we
got a chance just to say, oh, we're doing hip
hop like you can't. And I didn't hope, I hope,
not hope. I hope, I hope not say this egotistically
quest but you can't not deny that even if Wu
Tang Clan eventually ends up in the Rock and Low
Hall of thing, right, but you can't deny that first album.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
The only category for it at that time was hip hop.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
You know what I mean, Like you could take some
of the albums and no disrespect, Like you could take
mc hammer and you could say that maybe it's funk,
maybe it's whatever it you know, that's because he's rapping
over it.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Don't make it hip hop. You see what I mean?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Now, with the rival of Wu Tang from my perspective,
especially the genius relentless way that you guys kind of
served us between ninety three and ninety five with the
five solo records, the group album, like it felt like okay,
hip hop is is steady, like this is this is
(07:53):
our lane? And little did we know, Like after nineteen
ninety seven, just a change happened in which it was
kind of like a tsunami with with where hip hop,
at least the hip hop culture that you and I
are used to, and a lot of that had to
do with sample clearances and you know, sort of people
(08:15):
seeing it as a business, whereas you know, we could
get away with whatever because not many people were looking
down our throats as creators. But then all of a sudden,
it's like you got to clear the snare and this
hook and all that stuff. But for you, in hindsight,
did you realize that the Wu Tang's entry was going
to sort of be the end of something that didn't
(08:35):
seem like it was ever going to end as far
as that particular spirit of hip hop is concerned.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I don't know if I saw that as the end,
because I think it waved right, it went, It came
in different forms even now some people say, well, Bizzelda
is a version of that, right, So you know, at
one point it was in odd future was another version
of that.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So I don't think it ended.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
But what is there?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
The spirit is there, but kind.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Of the the sad.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
But from my perspective, right, so being in it is different. Right,
So from my perspective, it's almost like it was like
we were counted. Okay, hip hop was counted by business,
countered by legalities and interpolation laws, counted even by how.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Can I say this hot ninety seven?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Like from Master Reflects Sat down with me, and you know,
he apologized to me, right, and he basically was like yo,
at the end of the day, you know, there was
an agenda to stop it, like to like to to
be like, YO, cut that off, turn this up, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And if you're you know.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
A white Castle burger is a white Castle burger, right,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
But they you know, we lined up for that, right,
not knowing the law something effect.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Of it versus something home cook. And so I'm naive,
to be quite frank with your brother, I'm pretty naive
about the world in a way because especially at that
time of my life, I'm focused on the world. I'm
trying to see right right, Like I'm a type of
dude that well.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
That's called living in the present, which is what it
should be doing, right Exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Until I saw five Deli Venoms back in Blockbuster, I
wasn't happy, you know what I mean, because it's like
I got to go to the bootlegs store for that,
you know what I mean. I wanted whatever we was
bringing to the culture to be a valuable you know
what I mean. I wanted to see a Spoting Man
movie or I Am Man movie, like so so it
was so I'm living in that narrow bubble of striving
(10:48):
to express to the world the childhood that I thought
was healthier and better creatively. Right, So then I don't
pay attention that I'm being countered. And even though I
was being counted, you know, and when I was loved,
I was being counted by my peers and even by
you know, by the system itself.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You know, I learned that years later. But fortunately, fortunately
for wo there's still a level.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Of purity in us as as people you know, like
ghost face is just always go these ghost face It's
like that's it. And so fortunately for that, whatever happened
out in the world or whatever was changing, we didn't
go so far. You know, they go too far to
chase you, you know what I mean, they ain't gonna say that,
and you know, look this way and look this way
(11:34):
and checked out, checked out, but you didn't go too
far to chase it.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
And I so, so I guess you know the answer
your question is like, in.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Hindsight, I didn't see the ending because it didn't end
in me. But in hindsight and learning what I know now,
it's like, man, motherfuckers was actually trying to kick me
out the room.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I feel you so right now. I'm working on the Earth,
Wind and Fire documentary, and a lot of what I
know about your modus operandi is sort of parallel with
where Maurice White was informing Earth would in fire, him
(12:17):
using astrology, him having an affinity for the number nine, literally,
like him writing manifesting a manifesto of what he wants
the group to do, what he wants the group to achieve,
things that I've known you've done as far as like
(12:38):
planning out what I'm going to organize, who's going to
be in the circle, and how we're going to do it.
Like a lot of cats don't know that that's metaphysics
or manifesting, but that's exactly how Maurice White structured Earth
would in Fire. Like I don't know if I'm necessarily
a coach in the way that you were a coach,
(12:59):
but how exhausting is it, especially in those first five years,
How exhausting is it in being the head coach or
the the facto leader of this empire? First of all,
(13:21):
why nine members for the Wu Tang Clint?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Was that on purpose or was that just like who
was there.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
No, No, At first it was eight right.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Okay, I understand Master Killer's situation, so I still count
him in terms of.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Oh he became nine by the time.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
You know, first it was eight, right, like the eight
points on the star, right, Okay, that's why. That's why
I look, I sai, I'm the seven in the center
of the eight point star.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
So a lot of things that was aspiring me was mathematics,
knowledge of self, knowing.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That a determined idea is his power was a nuclear bomb.
In fact, it took a determinent idea to make can
nuclear ball. So having that impulse over me, and knowing
that the MC's that was in my community that I
was friends with buddies where it had demo tapes with,
knowing that the industry actually needed it in my opinion,
(14:16):
like the industry needed a joke of the real people
that's living it, right, and not just some of the
people and and hope helping out saying this in a
non offensive way, but not just some of the.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
People who was like already in or who went through
their experience.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It's like crazy thing about Wu Tang that's kind of
crazy than it's it's.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Seven felons in ute mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So that's that's the people that's written off, you know
what I mean, it's probably man, it might be eight
high school dropouts, you know what I'm saying. So this
is the people that that ain't gonna get a chance
in all reality. And yet this is the people that's
that's loving hip hop, living hip hop right, their lyrics
and misspelling the words in some phases, you know what
(15:04):
I mean. And to my ear and to my knowledge
of the of the industry itself, I was like, Nah,
this band of MC's right can naturally come through and
rock the world. And I was and I'll have the
validation of course of the USA in od B right,
I have thedation as well, meaning they agreed and when
(15:26):
the rest of the klan agreed to the idea, right,
and we all live by mathematics.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Who says, once you make an.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Agreement, you got to live up to that, you know,
I mean, you got to live through your world. Your
world is your bond. Right, So once we agree that this,
you know that this idea, this course of action is
the course of action to take to go ahead, and
you know we're and we're starving for domination, like that
wasn't a target for us, right, a target to be
number one U once once we agree that we're going
(15:55):
to do that, and then somebody at the front of
of the of the sphere at that time, I was
like the tip of the spear. I see the target.
I just need y'all to fit the force behind me,
you know what I mean with that aspiration and inspiration.
Yes that I saw that clearly, even if nobody else
saw it, right, Because sometimes you may ask another rouple
member that you said, now he didn't see it, or
(16:16):
he didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
See it here once and y'all saw it, or once
y'all believe.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Did they believe you? Like were they all in the
room at the same time, or was it just like
sort of some Hollywood Yeah, let's do lunch it like okay,
we'll make a record like.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We gather it, we build you know.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I verbalized it, you know, and look one of the
Timple quotes of it that I.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Used for always. I'm a god of analogies, So my
analogy to them was like.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yo, the only way we're going to get there is
if you guys, let me drive the bus with no
questions and you always be the passengers, and I promise
I'll get us there, but I don't need nobody, like
it has to be a dictatorship in all reality.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
That was that was like, that's what I need, right,
because I'm gonna with outfls okay, given moment, you know,
I mean, anybody can knock anybody out if it's on
like that.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Because there's no chumps here.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
It's all we're bill men, right, So therefore conflict can't
exist because the conflict would be self destruction. And so
we all got to agree that the abbot is driving
the bus and when we get there, I said, I
need five years to get there though, And when I
get there then it's cool. And we got there, right,
(17:32):
But everybody agreed, and even when it got a little
weird here or weird there, the agreement always came up.
And in the reaffirmation of the agreement. So so these
four other brothers like nah Son, that ain't right because
we gave our word, right, you know. And so so
that's I mean, that's a long answer to the question.
(17:54):
But let me add on one mother, one other thing.
When you talk about you know how winning fire yourself,
you know, Maurice White, yourself myself as this coach position. Yeah,
it's taxing. It's not easy, you know. I had a
lyric about it. I said something about I said, rhyming
to me is easier than breathing, and making beasts for
(18:17):
me is easier than peeing.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
But fucking with the Wu Tang clan, it's like riding
down a thousand foot hill through pine trees and snow
on one ski.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I see that, right, But I know that right, right.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We take that ride. So it was tough, right, and
it was tough.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I will never deny that I got you, but it
was actually in hindsight now and living as the man
I am today, it was also the greatest forging of
myself that I ever could have gotten, Like I would
not be the father I am, the man that I
am if those experiences didn't happen in my life. If
(19:04):
those whether there was arguments or challenges or even submissions
to ideas, if I didn't experience that, right, It's like
my best example, I was doing my film, right, I
had one of people working for me yo, right, I
have a list actors, and I had all these personalities.
If I didn't have already dealt with that in my
(19:25):
youth with the WU I wouldn't know how to deal
with it then, right, And and the way I handled it,
the executives they gave me another job because it's like, Yo,
this guy could handle some shit.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Do you ever have self doubts because of everything you've done?
I mean, I'm talking about scoring directing, Like, have you
ever met a challenge in which you were sort of like,
I'm not sure?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I mean, and of course, right, but I would just
say that if there's a solution that exists, I strived
for the solution.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I remember when we were as young, they say nobody
is perfect, right, And when I was about seventeen eighteen
years old, I had already you know, I knew one
hundred and twenty lessons already. So one of the twenty lessons,
you know what that is? I gotta spain that, right. So,
and then brothers move on to what they call plus lessons.
And with plus lessons, you know, you're you're learning outside
(20:23):
of the teachings, right, Other brothers contribution to the teachings.
And then I became started writing my own, right, and
so I wrote one called Striving for Perfection, right, And
as I was getting this out, of my system. The
question was, we always say that somebody is imperfect, But
if I accept that I'm imperfect, then I'll never have perfection.
(20:46):
So I can so I gotta know, I got to
accept that I'm perfect, that there is a solution to perfection.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Right, and if there is that, then I can be that,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
And so by writing that out into a textual form
and reading it and passing it to my students and
memorizing it and quoting it, it gave me an extra
level of confidence of like, you know what, at the
end of the day, there's a mathematical solution to it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
And when I say mathematical, mathematical.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Could be a physical, spiritual, emotional, social, economic, right, mental.
It ain't just arithmetical, you know what I mean, or
adding division and subtracting.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
It's almost like, yo, that might require a spiritual solution.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
That might BEQUI your economic solution, right, that might be
QUI your physical solution, you.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And so knowing that and being confident that those solutions exist, yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
And I always say our perator is due to a law.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I could go into those bags and bring that and
utilize it to find that answer.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And I'll just say this last piece on it.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Artistically though, it's like art duties in the eye of
the behold the right.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So first I gotta just see it as being beautiful,
all right?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I take that. Do you have a spiritual practice of
meditation or like, do you write affirmations down?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Or is it just something in you, a confidence in
you that says I'm gonna achieve that.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Yes, it's it's internal now right at this age. Right,
And I'm gonna keep going to mathematics on this conversation.
I don't have good a chance.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I understand it.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Good hit me once a man hits forty, right, according
to mathematics. For us, for freedom, culture and freedom right,
culture's your way of life. Freedom is the freeer dome
from ignorance and foolishness that keeps you dumb or numb
to the world.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
So if you have culture and freedom right, you get
your forties, you now should be free from.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
All that other shit that you dealt with.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Physically free, you know what I mean, because your body
is already now evolved. And so once that happened in
my life, I accepted that. So I accept every mathematic
of my life in my thirties. It says three is
for understanding. So you got to understand what you're going through.
So first you got to understand knowledge, understand wisdom, right,
(23:12):
understand even understanding that.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So therefore your understanding becomes what understood. Right, got to
understand coach.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
All these different degrees, I keep those applied to myself,
and therefore I'm able to forecast myself or at least
know where I'm at in space and time.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And that's a big equation for us with man, women
and child.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Strive to always know where you're at in space and time.
Some dudes are still in the nineties or the two thousands,
like hold on, son, take a look where you're at
in the space and time now right now, and then
also know where the rest of your cipher is and
the rest of the things are around you. So of
course our.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Lesson teach just a fast and to pray. So yeah,
faster than prayer is healthy, right, super healthy.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
But the first lesson is knowledge, it says do Knowledge
is not just a word of uh. That's why Kim
said right in the lyric, no, the ledge, but knowledge
becomes an act, a physical act, right, so it ain't
just reading. So the mathematics that knowledge is to look, listen, observe,
(24:19):
and also respect. Now you may look at something, you
may listen to something, but did you observe it?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And did you respect it?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And if you miss any of those components, you're not
doing the knowledge because knowledge is the basics foundation and
off that foundation of walking into a room and look first,
who observed it?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You know what I mean? You listen and you respected it?
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
That's part of my uh, you know, spiritual affirmation. I
guess that ask your question and my my surety of
my movements.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So what does that mean for you now that you're
fifty five? Right?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
So now power power, that's truth top of truth. That's
why I'm talking like this now. I wouldn't even have
spoke like this because I would have kept it more personal,
right Like even when I just said to you earlier
about yoall they told me that they shut the door
on me yo, and they apologized to that, and I'm
cool with that.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I remember I told one of my peers.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
He was like, Yo, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Sabotaged your whole shit. I said, yeah, you kind of
fucked me up for like a week. That's it.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I believe that you're speaking of the infamous Hot ninety
seven summer stage incident. See I was in Europe at.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
That time, so I said, yeah, you guys, wasn't in Europe.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
We were, I mean we were living in Europe for
like six months, six to seven months, especially during the summer.
But so basically, an incident happened in Hot ninety seven
that rubbed them the wrong way, and they were basically like,
we're not playing you guys anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Basically, first of all, we were sabotaged, which is cool.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Happened.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Hey, that's a fight fight, you know, it's like the
five heart Beat. Remember before they came out and guy
was like.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
This next bancterd, they're better than the Temptations.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And trying to monkey minch it right and Yo, at
the end of the day, you know, a couple of
members spoke up on that on the spot, fuck that
you're fuck y'all right, because at the end of the day,
one of the members was like, yo, fuck Hot nice
on the mic to the crowd. Get the crowd. Yeah,
it goes like for Hot ninety seven, right, So they
(26:28):
took that personal, but in reality, Bhutang built.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Hot ninety seven.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
True.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Okay, So all of a sudden, you're trying to tell
us that we got to do this and change that
when when we are, we're the one that brought to
your audience. Right, the audience is the proof of the
pudding is that we got thirty thousand kids in front
of us, right, not just from a summer jam.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You're on tour, raised against the machine.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
So we are still that power magnetic to audiences. And
yet you're not spending our mute because we didn't hit
you with a hook.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
My first song didn't have no hook. He was gonna
hit you with a hook when we ready.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
To hit you with a hook, protecting that had no hook,
we won't Tryum, this is lyricism. But when they pulled
the plug, it's a it's a chain reaction though they's
just first, that's that's our biggest New York was the
biggest market, right, and it's all a trend setting market,
right and then em It's at the same time had
sister stations, So yo, we plug pull it here, we
(27:26):
pull it here, and Homeboy over here. We're gonna pull
it over here too, right, and that's all good, Like
I said. The funny thing about it is, you know,
as it's now explained to me or even apologize or
even admitted to I. Just like I said, I'm so
naive and sh like I said, I was why he
fucked up for like a week.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And it ain't mean nothing to me, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Because it never governed what I was doing. It never
made me be who I am. That's something that artists
sometimes lose faith.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Well, and you were outsiders anyway, so it's not like
that didn't matter. You existed because you found ways to
get in without the mainstream, right right.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And also the add to that, we also existed because
we were us. But it's almost like, look, most people
are not gonna be able to get the s, the
twelve tables. They gotta like you gotta work up to
that Gemini. Yeah, you might not even know what that is,
right right. So it's just like, Yo, I'm okay, I'm
(28:25):
okay being rare.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I'm gonna being like you gotta come over here to
get that.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Here's the strange connection between you and nine that Rage tour.
We wound up replacing you guys on the Rage Tour.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I got it. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Number one that literally changed our lives. Like that helped
me buy a house, which subsequently helped me buy equipment,
then help me by you know, helped me make things
fall apart, like literally, you know, at that time, we
were sort of living hand to mouth, gig the gig.
(29:09):
You know, we're cool this week, We're gonna be broke
next week, hopefully a gig comes in. Oh, we got
a gig. We'll make it. But that was the first
time that we were able to sustain monetarily.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
At least consistency.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
That helped. Yeah, that helped in ways you don't even matter.
So that was a blessing to me. But in hindsight,
I always wonder because you know, you guys are beetles
and are rolling stones. So it's like, do you wish
that you guys had seen that tour all the way through?
(29:44):
Because I would imagine that you guys would have just
toured the world, and really it would have been just
another level, a higher level of madness for you guys. Yeah,
I'm happy how it turned out, why I'm here right now.
Literally that that that changed my life. But from your perspective,
do you wish that you like saw that tour through.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
First of all, I'm glad that as you tell me
that I didn't know that that our era because we
made an error that was wrong for us not to
complete that tool, you.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Know what I mean. It was a miscompulation by the
crew right not to do that.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
And at the end of the day, that's the outfulness
of whoa if you really look at it. The promise
was given to me in nineteen ninety two. This is
nineteen ninety seven. The time is up, okay, And it
was acts in a democratic way. First of all, it
was happening like even without like on some of those
(30:42):
on some nights of that tour.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
You may see only father of us there, yea.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
And so it was already starting to be like yo,
brothers come in and out when they when they was
feeling it, you know what I mean. But then it
was like yo, you do we want to I think
it was in Chicago, was like you want to stay
on the tour or not?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And we took a vote and brothers want it off.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Right. Do you think that that whole experience was just
jarring for them to get to that level. Do you
think that there was just a fear of seeing it
through was it just too much because my first night
of that ship, I was scared to death, like all
those kids jumping in. What the fuck is this?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Right?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
I think in hindsight, I've heard some of the brothers
bring that up, like maybe there was some type of
fears and somebody. The plan was this toward raids in
the summer m m. And then we hit the colleges
during the homecoming season.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Mm hm, right, But I think the crew wanted to.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Go home first. They wanted to fill this called the
Black Law first. When we dropped the new album, right,
they wanted to start there. I say, now, don't start there,
because that's what we left for at right, So let's
start here and they come back around.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
To get the international first and then come.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
And the connection of those type of big concerts, especially
when you're young, right, both big concerts. If you're not, like,
how can I explain this? Look, some artists need to
like have their leg touched by the person in a
thousand seedar like they need to they need to smell it. Yeah,
(32:21):
And some artists could fucking sit in the middle of
the stage empty on a stool with thirty thousand people
in front of them and just play their guitar and
and and hit.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
You with the Jannet chaplain, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Right, And so in us we had that mix of
those who would be that way like like, you know,
I'm probably more of a I'm probably the rock and
roll energy of the crew, you know what I mean,
the sense of that methods also the stadium energy of
the crew, right, are more like yo, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Knock you out street hustler club of the crew.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
So because of that, because of that type of energy
at that point in our lives, you know, twenty five
years old, twenty six years old, whatever, I think that
it may have been some type of I don't know.
I don't use the word fear, but definitely uncomfortability. But
I'm all say this, and I said it a hundred
times and I'll say it again.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
It was an I'm going to circle your whole career.
But I have to know the night that you made
protect your neck. One, how long did that session take?
And two? How did you determine the sort of format
of the song? Because you know, you Got has eight
(33:33):
bars and Old Dirty has twenty four bars and just
that has twenty four. But Go says sixteen, Like, how
did you measure and plan that out? Like as far
as the order is concerned, and no hook or none
of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Well, it was a two day session. Actually.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
That was one of those songs where you got to
come back to the studio, right, Okay, fact ghost went
home and rewrote this verse.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
There's another version with a different verse. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Well at the time, he was also boast was going through.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Ghost was also evolved in right, right, Dirty was evolved,
was evolved, you know what I mean. Meth and Deck
and Ray Ray was amazing, right when Ray didn't have
a lot of bars written, he had stopped writing for
some years. Kind of interesting, but I just know Ghosts
was like, you know because when he's from Stables and
(34:25):
they from Park Hills.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
So he was like, yo, I got it.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
I got to go back and and come with my
stables and shit, right, just coming from Brooklyn, Dirty coming
from Brooklyn. So it was like you had that competition, right,
But for me, I kind of had a knowledge of
their voices as instruments, right, and then also had a
knowledge of the potency of the lyric to be quite frank, Yeah,
I edited I edited some shit, Yo, got it?
Speaker 2 (34:51):
You know? What I mean to be quite frank, I
was like, boom boop, chop that chop that. Now that
I got the structure.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Right, just go kill it.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You see what I'm saying, got it?
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Because really that had probably twenty four bars right and
the beat straight with your quest?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So do you have a version of the song in
which is the complete the original?
Speaker 3 (35:13):
The original for Tech your Neck really was an inspected
deck track that we had recorded prior called It's not
your average flow, okay, And so what happened was I
had that track and we were like, yo, this, take
that track to the studio. That beat was killing. Let
(35:34):
deck kill that. I'm gonna make that the joint. But
in the studio I was like nah, nah, And that
actually took the sample out of it, and we made
the whole track from like from scratch and like and realized,
which is interesting, I would say this to you. I
took the samples out and I just played the base
line and then took all the little samples and this
was like doing it like that more like versus yeah,
(35:57):
doing it manually. And the reason why you won't a
version of that because there's only a sixteen track of
machine at that time we had, and so therefore we
got two guys on the same track. It's just like
the hook is on another track, that dirty is gonna
come on that same track, and it's no other place
to put that at. There's the other place to put
(36:18):
my curses or the blocks or the curses.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I guess like I have to do it right. Yeah,
but you know, you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Know, I'm quite sure you probably had a four track
growing up as well.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I love that dirtiness, so I still collect for a
track machines and cassettes like I vow like one day
Tarika and I are gonna make the record that we
used to make it, like we used to always make
albums in our bedroom, you know, before we got a
deal and all that stuff. But I still dream of
making just the dirtiest, stinkiness sonic sounding record, Like that's
(36:52):
my dream.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
But let me ask a quick question if you don't mine,
I know, yeah, you know. First of all, let me
just say thank you for inviting me to the podcast.
Glad we found time to do it.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
This should be my second or third visit.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
First, I was waiting for you, man, I was I
was patient.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
You guys are credited, and I think I can't find
another physical form of it. I know that sept the
Sonic called themselves the hip hop band, but you guys
are really the first official hip hop band. I know
the Fujis may have a little bit of say so
in some of that she as well, but you guys
are the first official.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I just want to know.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
My question to you is, like, you know, coming up
as a musician, you came up as a drummer.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Am I correct?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yes, started as a drummer.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
So what was like?
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yeah, she that's like, Yo, I'm a drummer. It ain't
no sampler. I'm gonna play the drums and we're gonna
make a fucking hip hop album. What was in your mind?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
What's weird? And I'm not even blowing smoke or or whatever,
but you and Dilla taught me shit about the drums,
because the thing is is that, you know, especially with
black drummers, after the Richard Nixon era, now before the
Richard Nixon era, what you had was you had migrants
(38:08):
of families moving to the Midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Chicago, Detroit.
They had these great factory jobs that enabled them to
buy houses. And in these houses, of course, garage bands
are starting in the garage, in the den, schooling, you
(38:31):
learned an instrument, and then all that shit got cut
in nineteen seventy three, of course, and that's where hip
hop culture starts and what happens around Like I'll say,
like eighty one eighty two, the true place that a
black musician could express themselves was the church, you know.
And what's weird is that if every musician you know
(38:51):
in your neighborhood is that church waiting for their chance
to get you know, there'd be eight drummers, five keyboard players,
five guitarists, and they're all waiting in the wings, like
when's my turn? When's my turn? What starts to happen
is this this where we are? It's sold now, like
the reason why you can't find a group of black
(39:13):
musicians to play like Al Jackson and the Stacks house
Band sort of like because I always wonder, like, yo,
don't musicians now know that if you record some shit,
like when I record some shit on record, I want
to underplay it so that way future is this future
(39:34):
Dyla's future? Whoever? I mean, it could be silent the
creator that they'll be Like that's the part I want
to sample. But what happens is church musicianship made it
this evil Knievel shit where it's like I gotta show
you that I can play my ass off in eight
seconds this whole you know what I mean. And it's
(39:58):
like like we're used to it now because every musician
is a church drummer. But for me, I wanted to
sound like like the Stacks box set that really set
your legacy. I too wanted to sound like that, so
like and I'm talking about the filler cuts, fish knowledge, God,
(40:19):
the way them drums sound so dirty, like that's what
I was. I'm like, this is this there's feeling to it,
you know what I mean. Until that phase of hip
hop came in three like the renaissance period of hip
hop came like for me, I thought, damn man, like
(40:41):
I got to keep up with these other like dar devils. Okay,
the question I always wanted to ask you of all
your work, like you know how when you purchased a
classic hip hop album, like when shit comes out like
classic shit like the day that Longly the Cane came
(41:01):
out and Tarik and I are like in my house
together like staring at the speaker, having listening sessions and
almost discussions as each song goes by, like especially on
the tour of Bus. Nothing paralyzed me more than verbal intercourse.
What happened was dirty was in Stockholm, Sweden. He did
(41:23):
a show that Friday night or that Saturday and left
behind in the dressing room the purple tape. Mind you,
we have been living in Europe and like going through
the shit like and this before the Internet and all
(41:45):
that shit. So we were literally living off of brand
Ubians Everything is Everything, the main ingredient by Pete Rock
and see how Smooth.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
To cal.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
It was like five cassettes that kept us alive insane
during that whole like run and he had a pre
copy of Cuban Links which was like, you know, we
could have cried tears of joy, like we got new
hip hop. Like I can't believe this because minds, you
were in Europe. It's not like oh yeah, dude, when
(42:18):
we got to verbal intercourse, we had to stop the tapement.
It's like, yo, are they allowed to just rhyme over
people talking like that? Like what the fuck for? Our listeners?
Still don't know emotions? If you if you say, you
might as well do it. The beginning loop is literally
like Wanda hutchisoning, I don't want to love him, but
(42:38):
what if he hurts me? And like literally was rule breaking,
And we had like a twenty minute discussion like wait
a minute, are they allowed to rhyme over people talking?
It was almost like we wanted to take y'all to
deposition court to see if that was allowed in the
world of music. Now we have equipment that can erase
vocals and just you know all that shit, But what
(43:02):
were you thinking when you loot that ship.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Well, by the time we got to that point of
Cuba Links, I think lyricism, our ego and our ability
to hear from all the other songs we've created and
all the things that we now showed to the world
was getting to a higher level. What I mean by
that is that at one point, no, you couldn't rhyme
(43:27):
while somebody else was talking because you couldn't even consciously
do it, right, Okay, But now our mastery of space
and cadens is there, right, so becuse then time it
could be I've lined to it first, right, so I
know it could be, yeah, doctor, whether I do it
(43:49):
to them in the space or whether I just do it.
I make sure that it can be rhyme too. That's
the reason why I made it right. So by that
time we got to there the.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
But what if he I want to love him? But
what it's like?
Speaker 3 (44:02):
It was to me, it was like that was part
of the beat and all I did and I just
added bevy wiz snarres.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
The problem with that track was.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Because it wasn't there was no problem.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
No, I'll said the problem as a producer for me, right,
it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Really it was unquantizable.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
I know, okay, right, So if you look at it,
the chick you can't make a beat on a beat
machine with it. You gotta hit sit there and hit
the fucking sit every fucking time on the track.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
So you took the quantizer off.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, fuck the quantizer.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Here's the thing though, So on the first album I
was like, all right, y'all, is there is a goddamn
genius or did he just read the first three pages
of the manual and decided to wing the west. We
had a term called the accidental tourist. Right in making
our first album, you know, I would have to play
to a click track and sort of fluctuate, and then
(44:59):
you know, my producer Rich would be like, ah, man,
do that pass again. That wasn't right, And I was like,
nah man, Like you know, accidental tourist. You know that's
hip hop. He's like, nah man, like we ain't doing
no woo shit, like perfect that shit. And you know,
for the longest I was looking for an excuse to
(45:20):
just break the rules. A good example was Johnny Taylor
has a break call you think I'd do it, which
has a break at the beginning to do someone offered
me beat some breaks and it's so sloppy in the beginning,
and like that's what I was trying to inch towards
and for you, especially with the sloppiness of everything, Like
(45:42):
for me, that just gave me the green light.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Like because the crazy thing is that for me, I
always know the time right because it's my time. I
remember we was hanging and I had a couple of
chicks with me. One knew me since high school, so
she knew sin I was fourteen years old, right, And
then some other dudes there and they're trying to show
off they knew how to play the piano, all.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Nice and all this ship right, and they got.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
They was doing their little R and B sucker ship
I called the sucker shit back then.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Now I'm cool with.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
It because we make sure all right.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Then I jump on it and I do my ship right.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
And yet the chicks felt what I was doing interesting, right,
But then the one chick was like, he has no tempo,
and the chick that knew be said, no, he's always
been on his own time. Like and when I say that,
so you listen to Brain the Ruckers, bro I'm hitting
every snaire on Brain the Ruckers.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Jesus Christ, it's like, I feel like there's gunshots and yeah, And.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
For me, it's almost like I thought that a sound
time could be changed at any moment based on the pulse.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
You feel me.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
So if I gonna get that's that right.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
But if I goa uh huh uh, the post is changing,
it's changing the time.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Okay, so that's possible. I could post what the fuck
I want to post and it to change the time.
That's why I'm bringing the Rutgers. When ghost goes one way,
but then in the middle of a sound, it changes,
in the middle of the bar Ray goes, it changes,
and it doesn't really make this until the hook comes.
And then when that comes on this now it's in
the groove, but then just goes out.
Speaker 5 (47:26):
Of the groove by the time he goes a mother
other than slave Man Boost LOUDI Cruz, I'm fucking up
the MC shoots and break Plumper sample Ship with our stump, right,
he said, since the day he recorded it.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
So every time we perform, he don't want to perform.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
He said, Yo, God, I never could catch that time
you put there.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
So the question I have for you is the day
that the Grave Diggers album comes out, Philadelphia, legendary DJ
cosmik Keev tells me, like, Yo, he predicted that ship
was going to go gangbusters, like shout out to my
man g from Jersey who were all heavy, we're promoting
you guys like they wanted him to play. Of course,
(48:13):
nowhere to run, nowhere to hide and all that stuff.
But why didn't you guys release bang your Head as
a single, because that Ship, to me was just like
that was the single that could have brought you guys
over the top.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Jason, you said that because at the time, right, bio
has it. Yes, Okay, so I think bio Hazard was
really bubbling right.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
In fact, the Grave Niggas was doing days.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
With bio has its just to let you know, Okay,
I think that in a way it was it was
it was the rock energy that scared the label right
when you got because you got you got fru Klon,
Prince Rakin or the Rustler at the time, you got it, you.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Got Prince Paul, right, you got hip hop. They called
it a super group at the time, right, mm hmm.
And also I.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Think that the label wanted to chase the wool, right,
and so I just think it was a miscalculation because
they was they were trying to chase the wolf. So
with the sample nowhere to run through suicide that we're
chasing that where bang your head is almost you know
what the fuck that is.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
And it's it's just it's just it was just a
ball of energy.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
But I do think that the Grave Diggers were such
an awkward it was.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
An awkward style of hip hop.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
I mean, it wasn't it was almost like it wasn't
a lot of MC's going there like that, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I mean they had they called.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
It horror.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
We felt that that song would have brought that to
the legitimate Yes, like we heard about horrorcore, but we
felt that that song is gonna be the the flag
planning song that really would have set that off, and
it never came to fruition. And I always wanted to
know why because I used to play that relentlessly. That
(50:12):
used to be my first record when I would DJ, and.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Able didn't get with that.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
You know, it's so crazy, though, I would say one thing,
it never failed at a live show when we got
Also when we did that shit, it was fucking I
even remember evident from Bile Hazard like want to come join,
and I like the energy that that shit used to
bring was crazy.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
I have a theory about when people upgrade their like
instruments or whatever, what exactly happened as far as the
flooding is concerned of your original studio and is that
sort of why the chapter ends with I mean, I
(50:55):
guess you could say look with swords or not, you know,
because the sound of Wu Tang Forever was night and day.
It was more polish sound. But what what what exactly
happened flooding lines that stopped you from using that particular equipment.
Speaker 3 (51:10):
First of all, tribbling links, liquid swords, maybe two or
three tracks off of Iron Man because after that, because
what happened was once I did the child, I didn't
want to go back to the studio no more.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
I don't like how the cow came out.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
I'll tell you why why even now. No, I didn't
like how it came out. I mean I loved it,
but I didn't. I mean I liked it, but I
didn't love them put it that way because I had
an engineer that tried to go by the book.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
So I had to fight to get the sound to
it that way.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
If you listen to I get my thing an action.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
If you just turned down one fatal bro, the whole
beat falls apart. But you gotta know that, and the
engineer don't know that. And and remember back in those days,
we're not really touching the boards.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
As we touch the boards, fight to.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Touch the board. You got to send that dude to
the store or something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
But by the time we got to I got your back, right.
And then you go to Cuba Links and Liquord Sports.
It's my own studio, it's my house. I got every
compressor already preset to their voices. I checked the compressor.
I knew that I wanted his voice like that, right,
(52:25):
Everybody got their own settings the two inches here the speakers,
I had k kades, but I have the bigger ones,
which was pretty with place but made sense back then, right,
And when the flood came, it wiped it out right,
the two witch machine, the boards still lived, the hardware,
(52:46):
all that felt, you know what I mean. And then
I had to finish iron Man inside the studio which
is called Mystic Studios. So now I'm in the studio
again and I'm dealing with.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
The studio fucking uh chamber.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
So some of the iron Man you got some original sound,
well some of it you can see like, okay, it's changing.
And then by the time you get to wuchank forever.
Oh no, we we we we.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
We build a new studio and we recording in la
at the same time. So now we pain ponding.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
But I would challenge this to you for your ear
if you get a chance, and maybe we could talk
about it next week. Listen to the tap of Donna
South of the Border, Okay, right, and let me know,
does that remind you of the sound from ninety three,
ninety four, ninety five, because to me, that was like
my last time like setting my parameters up to that,
(53:44):
you know what I mean? Sampling that twenty two point
one or seventeen point nine like Chanda my sample bit
it was like the last time I did it, and
I was.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Like, man, this this We played it in the office
for the staff.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
Everybody was like, that's you need to make more of those,
Like that's the sound. That's that's unique Wu Tang sound.
That that that that the world is used to versus.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Run, which I said, No, I like run which was
run was the was the curse? But run was the curse.
Speaker 3 (54:09):
Well, Sampler, it wasn't the ASR sent you know what
I mean. I was kind of moving over to Churst well,
like you said, upgrading my ship.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
But yeah, well brother, I appreciate you even let me
get this far. God willing, we will continue with our
talk with the one and only Risa the average of
Wu Tang Clan. Thank you very much, brother brother, Thank
you for listening to The Quest Love Supreme Closter to
buy Amir Quest Love Thompson, Lia Saint Clair Sugar, Steve Mandell,
(54:44):
and Unpaid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are Mayor, Quest Loved, Thompson,
Sean che Brian Calhoun, Produced by Brittany Benjamin Cousin Jake
Payinne and Liah Saint Clair. Edited by Alex Convoy, Produced
by iHeart by Noel Brown. Post Club Supreme is a
(55:13):
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Laiya St. Clair
Questlove
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