Questlove Supreme: Shaggy

Shaggy gives Team Supreme an incredible music history lesson as he breaks down cultivating an original style and why he feels he has always been deeply misunderstood. The veteran joins QLS to discuss his Grammy-nominated Frank Sinatra-inspired album Com Fly Wid Mi and his collaborations with Sting. This interview is not to be missed!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
You know it's course love Team Supreme is with men.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
Well, yeah, hello, hey man, I'm doing man, I'm excited.

Speaker 5 (00:23):
I'm good.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Too, I'm excited. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
I think I think we're allowed to stay excited as
the person that is on every zoom pitch. I think
everyone's excited. It's the equivalent of say Macbeth in the theater,
not be on a zoom and say everyone's excited. It's like,
that's the depth nail, not.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
To apply it to every zoom. This is this is
specifically an exciting zoom.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Right, this is not a business meeting. So yeah, you know, Suger, Steve, whatever.

Speaker 6 (00:56):
Bro, Hi, I'm mayor, Hi Team Supreme.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hi, Shaggy, how's everything doing.

Speaker 6 (01:01):
I'm good?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Just give it away, now, give it away now, Steve,
Let's edit that. Let's edit that. Hey Steve, how you doing, bro?

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hey Shaggy? Frantic a little man, how's it going down?
There was Li Man finishing up my dinner. I want
to be eating on camera. Yeah, just let it go
to a black screen.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I think Fante should be like the neighbor on home
where we just.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
See.

Speaker 6 (01:39):
I think the fact that we were talking off camera
before you got in kind of got into.

Speaker 7 (01:44):
We never supposed to talk before he gets on cameras.
What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:47):
No, we didn't.

Speaker 7 (01:48):
No, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 6 (01:49):
No, it wasn't me. We weren't talking about anything other
than the fact that I was complimented where she lives.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
You like her background?

Speaker 7 (01:58):
No, no, no, he was shaving mistake. It's cool we
get in. You're breaking the rude Shaggy to introduce.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Okay, fuck it all right, Shaggy is on the shows.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
I mean, we're part of.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Telling you I'm in Oh, I'm in the merk Inglewood.
But he wasn't really making fun of that. He's making
fun of the fact that I live in California, which
is has a you know, it has has some ship
with it. But he has a home in Florida. So
I told him he needs to step back.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Oh, you're not You're not a California person at all.

Speaker 6 (02:31):
No, it's not that I'm not at California. I'm just
looking at it. I said, there's only one box ticked.
It's great weather. You get up and you feel amazing.
But if you sit down and take the rest of boxes,
I'm like, you know, there's month slides, fires, I'm.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
Like, there's act there's Karen Bass, there's gathering.

Speaker 7 (02:50):
I'm like, don't even.

Speaker 6 (02:53):
Know, there's so many, there's so instinct. But you know,
we we we we agree to disagree.

Speaker 7 (02:58):
Yes, very true.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
All right, So technically speaking, I should do a proper introduction,
all right, So I will say that I've we probably
had a conversation with every musician, every walk of life,
but I don't think I've ever had an in depth
conversation with anyone in the in the dance hall reggae world.

(03:22):
I mean, if you discount super Cats complaining that I
wasn't good on drums at the roots, jamp.

Speaker 8 (03:31):
Don't feel better, don't feel aboud it complains about a
lot of people.

Speaker 6 (03:36):
Don't feel bad. He cussed me out totally.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, someone told me that it's actually a badge of
honor if if you cuss, it is it is.

Speaker 6 (03:46):
It is. And I'm not cutting. But I'll tell you what.
Super Cat was one of the first person to give
me microphone when I was in Brooklyn back and Flatbush,
back in the days when I was a young guy,
and he would bring the microphone and give it to
me because everybody's fighting, you know, just spit on the mic,
and he always give me so he could say anything
about me. I'm telling you that because he was that guy.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
It's funny you say that I really wanted to do
this episode, because I mean, I've said it a few
times before, but our guest today saved the roots. Yeah,
I will say that if it weren't for our guest today,
none of this. I'm not saying none of this would
be possible, but I know for a fact, very directly

(04:32):
that the fruits and that overfloweth monetary nature of our
guests and his art for him definitely came.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
As a an.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Eleventh hour saving grace slash life wrath if you will,
for my band, which you know, I will say to
the end of the time that Shaggy is alright with me.
He's done so many legendary things. I mean, he's so
over forty million units, has over eight hundred million streams.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
I mean, he's collaborated with the best. I mean, name it,
from Shaka.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Khan the Eve to Janet Jackson, Cardi b Max Dey
Priest back to Levy to to the Maytals. Dude, even
I mean, right now, the gold standards to get billions
of streams on TikTok, he's done that as well, like
you know, and right now we're here to celebrate his
new project. First of all, I mean you and Sting together.

(05:33):
That's all right, we already gave it away at the
top of the show. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Shaggy.

Speaker 6 (05:40):
Yes very much. Question you know, you know what I
gotta you put a lot of a lot of weight
on my shoulder their quest because it's not the first
time I've heard you said that, And yeah, I'm meaning
to see you and talk to you about that. You're
putting a lot of that's a lot of weight on
my should mind.

Speaker 7 (06:00):
People to his story.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
But basically, you know, I think with the way that
a successful record label can operate, I mean, yes, everybody wants,
you know, a vast array of artists on their label
and whatnot, but you know the label also needs like
and earner. And you know it wasn't me was so

(06:25):
inescapable in.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Ninety eight ninety nine.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
That basically we were kind of wondering where, like we'd
spend a lot of money on Things Fall Apart, And
you know, it's kind of like if you've ever seen
what's a Adam Sandler's movie that I thought he should
have got nominated for Oscar for or Uncut Gyms. The
industry is a lot like Uncut Gyms where you got

(06:51):
to rob Peter to pay Paul. So oftentimes, you know,
I'll read about my favorite records getting made and they'll
say like, well, we have to take some money from
the Doobie Brothers project to pay for this project, and da.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Da da da.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
In our case, I will say that a good portion
of the promotion that we had to do for Things
Fall Apart, the videos we had to do, the promotions,
the ads we had to take.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Out, all those things.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Definitely, our an R said you guys better be lucky
for a shaggy success because this is how we're paying
for your budget.

Speaker 6 (07:22):
So you know, you know what it is to quest
it was it was a very strange climate. That whole
company was a strange climate, you know. It was you
really didn't have an urban department. We didn't in that company.
A lot of people need to know that it is
a very pop based and I was lucky to have

(07:43):
these records that started as none of those songs were
singles or I never picked as single, but they ended
up becoming big pop records and really saved me because
when I came in there, you know, there was no
but I wasn't the same space as the roots, you know,
I was not.

Speaker 5 (08:03):
I wasn't getting budgets either.

Speaker 6 (08:04):
It just so happened that we had a song I
was right at the minute to be dropped. And then
because the first two singles came out was Dancing Shout
and Oh, and they flopped and a DJ out of
Hawaii started to play it wasn't me. After the fifth play,
it just lit up his phone and it just continued
to spread. And that's what saved my ass because I

(08:26):
was about to be on the chopping block, you know,
just like just like you guys, it was just what
it was. And they weren't planning to spend money because
it was just not a company that really was focused
around marketing urban music. I just it was just not
that kind of a climate in that company. It wasn't

(08:48):
It wasn't that.

Speaker 4 (08:49):
And did you ever skip the line and go right
to pop? Right because that was it felt like it
didn't have right.

Speaker 6 (08:55):
It actually went to pop and then came back.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
To earth that.

Speaker 6 (08:59):
Yeah, it's just it's just it was like it became
pop and then you know, you know what is the
clubs was sucking with it so much that you know,
urban raiders say, well, you know the club is doing,
we might as well play it, you know, we know,
you know, we know the White Stations is playing it.
You know, but really and truly in every ghetto club
they're saying, it wasn't me, so let me rock with it,
you know what I'm saying. And if you think about it,

(09:20):
Angel wasn't as lucky. Angel continued to stay pop and
didn't get back, didn't go back in it because it
was never a club joint, so it didn't really connect
like that, you know, while bombasketballso from a previous album
that was also club and then ended up going to
pop and then urban urban started playing it again. So

(09:41):
it was just a strange climate at that time, especially
for Rega.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Who was that DJ, because that DJ is also the
one that the one in Hawaii is also the one
that broke in all my life for Casey and Jojo
and Jojo they have the same situation where they were
about to you know that one's about to flop then,
and that's the thing, like I don't think. Well, I
mean like, like you can also explain it since like ninety seven,

(10:07):
there was one movie that came out that sort of
explained how radio works called Before the Music Dies, that
came out like two thousand and four.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
But you know, ninety seven when.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
I guess what I can call the clear channel era
of radio comes into play, where now people have to
pre program the music like right, weeks weeks ahead of time.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
Now it's blowing my mind because I'm like pop pop
DJs don't break records, right, So the fact that this
one did and then broke these two black records that
start go back to a black radio when black radio
usually starts, it's it's blowing.

Speaker 7 (10:40):
It's a mind blower.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Well, actually, let me ask you because I mean, I
know you haven't been on terrestrial radio for a minute,
but just during the time period when you were on radio,
like how far advanced, Like when do they actually start
feeding the machine and saying like, Okay, we're gonna play
this be song fourteen times a day and they pick

(11:03):
this specific time like they do playlist. Yeah, when does
that programming start.

Speaker 7 (11:08):
I mean, you know, it's a process.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
It's also like record reps coming to the station from
that was a big thing, you know, when it comes
to y'all being represented in a way, right, it's like
what the record rep is selling, what's their priority, and
then once it's the priority, depending on the artists, sometimes
since it's a priority and it's an artist and maybe
the label, you know, it's all kind of dynamics.

Speaker 7 (11:28):
But it's never it's never.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
Shaggy has always been different in that way because it's
never been pop breaking records and just naturally that happening.
That's a natural thing, and that doesn't happen right Shaggy.

Speaker 6 (11:42):
I think a lot of it boils down to the
demographic you know. I mean when you look at at
that time, they're going to look at what urban music
is selling, you know, and then they're going to look
at what reggae is. Now. There's a big argument now
where they say that reggae is you know, less than
five percent of the global market share. You know, so
you can't expect any major company or any company to

(12:04):
be putting major money into any act that is less
than five percent of the market share. My argument to
that is, when has it ever not been less than
five percent? You know when I when I was selling
forty million records, it was three percent. You know, after me,
then you had Sean Paul and everybody it became popular.

(12:25):
Before then, it was never on radio. I was the
guy that got it on radio. So it was always
less than five percent, you know what I mean, nothing
has ever changed on that. And these record companies they
invest based on that. So it's not gut, it's you know,
so when when I'm doing these numbers and they're like,
oh shit, we didn't know that could happen, and so

(12:46):
they ended up chasing. Now you sell ten million records,
you think they're going to be like, well, you know,
he just did it. Let's try and let's invest again
and do that. They're looking at it like, yeah, that
I ain't never got one off. That's one off, and
they can think of it as that.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Now where we are now today, you're seeing other genres
as sort of with the DNA of dance hang reggae,
Like I know that African music, okay, so I have
to call it West African.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
I mean, I'm just saying you a lot of it
is from Nigeria. Now we don't get into afrobeat versus afrobeats,
and I want no parts of that.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
But what I'm basically asking is like between reggae tone
and West African music and now with dance hall, are
you finding it now?

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Are people generally trying to lump.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Like an entire genre of non Americanized rap, non Americanized
pop into this mold that you now have to fit
into in twenty twenty two, where say, you know, the
average Joe from Kansas might not know the difference between
the music that you're doing and the music that Jave

(14:01):
Balvin was doing and the music that Yeah Yeah or
Bad Bunny or or you know or whoever is.

Speaker 6 (14:09):
What's so crazy is there? You know there's a history
on this. You know that Yankee called me sometime last
year and asked me because there was a documentary shot
supposed to be on Netflix that really talks about reggaeton.
He couldn't tell the story of reggaeton because he was there,
it was before him, but he knew that he knew that,

(14:31):
I know, you know what I mean? So I and
and and the starting of regaton started by a guy
by the name of El Gringo out out from Puerto
Rico out of Brooklyn, and El Gringo he went to
prison and then there and then El Henero right ended

(14:51):
up doing dance all records in Spanish right, which was
put out on VP. And there was a guy Carl Miller,
who literally was the guy that was producing these songs
for VP Records. L Naro ended up blowing up. Now,
the crazy part about it is El Noro and I

(15:13):
went to Erasmus Hall in Brooklyn and we were in
the lunch room, and the lunch room had the Puerto
Rican click, the Panamanian click, the Jamaican click, you know
what I mean, the Haitian click. And we would be
on the book benches and we'll beat and spit freestyles
and people get around right exactly, and Elenoral would be

(15:37):
over there doing the same thing in Spanish out of there,
and so him and I that's how we became friends
because I used to spit it on the bench and
over there, and then he started to make these dance
on these old Chaparine record Now, the beat of regeton
is called dem boold you know that quest right, So

(15:57):
it's called it's called yes, it comes from its It
comes from Chaparax Stemba now Elena All and them used
to do these reggae records, these stance All records over
in Spanish and that became Spanish reggae. Carl at VP
ended up calling it reggae tone, and through mispronunciation over

(16:21):
here it became guitar. That is the beginning of what
is reggae tar, which started out.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
Of that d You see our faces right.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
Now, like Tago Calderon and those guys.

Speaker 6 (16:35):
Was that it was after Tego was after this. There
was a guy up out of out of Browns called
Gunghi Rivera who used to have these big nightclubs and
he was the one that used to promote a lot
of these Spanish reggae acts right that used to be
uptown around that time. Gungi was was a major force

(16:55):
in the development of it, you know what I mean?
And that was what it is.

Speaker 7 (17:00):
Are you in this documentary?

Speaker 6 (17:01):
Well, yeah, they called me to tell the story because
you know, in fairness to a lot of these newer acts,
they don't know that story.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
So you literally were there to witness like the incubation.

Speaker 6 (17:13):
Yeah, I was there to the whole thing. I was
part of the whole thing.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
This is why I'm starting, This is why I'm excited
to say he's a national treasure.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Why doesn't the world know this?

Speaker 6 (17:21):
Nobody asked, but it is documented. I can tell you
it is true. Now say, say, for instance, when we
did Afrobeat, Now let's go to the Africa, West Africa,
as you would say. I used to go to Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania,
all these places, and I would play stadiums because the

(17:45):
main music of those country was dance all. It was
not zook or or you wasn't here in Felakute or
any of these guys. It was dance all in the
streets and the clubs of Nigeria or any any of
these places. It's dance all. And so we would go.

(18:05):
I would go there, play stadiums, and a lot of
these artists would would open for us. You know, you're
talking a lot of these artists that you see a
big art the Afrobean artist opens on a lot of
shows down there. Wow, you know what I mean? We
could go back even further. When you look at you know,
there's a lot of opening You're talking about the Spice
Girl open for Shaggy and in domestic you know what

(18:27):
I mean. You know, I mean in sync. We used
to do road shows in Europe at that time where
they open for us. So it's it's been it.

Speaker 7 (18:37):
Is Man Kennedy Center, Anna.

Speaker 6 (18:41):
It's been a whole journey of how that that would
be going because I've been good for thirty odd years,
you know, of of doing that. So in the afrobeat,
if you listen it, it is really influenced by dance
all right, even though they have developed their own sound, right,
but it was really kind of influence from that.

Speaker 9 (19:01):
What is the correlation or the I guess the relationship
between like dancehall and also what is called lover's rock,
like I guess the so lovers rock.

Speaker 6 (19:11):
Okay, So if you look at what Jamaican music started from,
and start from a beat called mental mental into ska
Scott into what's known as rock steady exactly, and it's
really about the shuffle that makes it go chick, chick chick,
and then there you go reggae chi chi. It's a

(19:34):
different vibe of how it's done. It's really about the
tempo and the feel of it that moves it from
a ska to a rock steady and rock Steady is.
Out of rock Steady came what is known as lovers rock.
What lovers rock is, it's that one drop reggae and
people sing these beautiful love songs, and white became lovers
rock is because they used to do a lot of covers,

(19:56):
like a lot of these big reggae songs we're called.
Take for instance, you look at Let's Just Go, Let's
Just Go, even one of the biggest all right, and
these are white boys, and and it blew up because
they white, but it also blew up because they were
just great covers. Red Red Wine by U B. Forty
was originally Neil Diamond that red Run, but they did

(20:21):
it over in reggae and it became now Neil Diamond.
When he's singing, he does reggae version.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Right better.

Speaker 5 (20:29):
Yeah, knowledge, I didn't even know that was a cover.
I didn't know that was his reggae.

Speaker 6 (20:34):
Sounds like I can't help Falling in love right right
was Elvis Presley, but was done by U. B. Forty.
Then then you have the other flip side of it,
you know, like girls just want to have fun. Cyndey
Lapool was based Drummer Based was done by Slian Robbie
to the biggest you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
So there's there's a lot, Jimmy, you're telling me that
Slie Robbie are the rhythm section there.

Speaker 6 (21:04):
There were session musicians in in in uh in America.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
I know that, but I could have thought Philly's on
the Hooters. Why know they wrote it, but I don't know.

Speaker 6 (21:14):
But the drummond bass of it, the groove of that
was like, right, that's why, Cindy, but you might have
to join Spreme and then and then even with with
with songs like of course, you know, Steve the Wonder
wrote a lot of of of a couple of songs
for the Third World also yes, uh right, yes, yes,

(21:42):
And a lot of people think that now that we
find loved, which was done by a heavy d which
was also made popular by Third World, but the original,
the original was the O J.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yes, yeah, we get yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (21:57):
So it's it's when you think of the blend of
music of how stuff is and even those early Grace
Stones records which were which were sly robbis yeah, totally,
you know what I mean, Compass Point Gwyn Guthrie. So
you look at the building of Island Records and what
it is was was reggae based. You look at somebody

(22:18):
like Chris Blackwell who founded Too and YouTube was a
it was a YouTube was a folk band when he
discovered those guys and he transformed them into a rock band.
You know, it was kind of a Christian style folk band.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Wait, you're dropping so many bombs right now. Just to
make sure, you said, Gwen Gutthie. So you're saying, ain't
nothing going on? But the rent is also yes, Sam, yes, yes,
ain't no damn that makes total sense. Man, Yeah, yeah, okay, Wait, I.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Want more education, but I got to know your life.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, what was your very first musical memory?

Speaker 6 (23:04):
My first music memory was my grandmother used to play.
We were from a poor neighborhood in Kingston, Raytown and
from a place called with small fishing village in Raytown
where I was on Charlotte Street. We live in one room.
My grandmother used to play a lot of radio because
we didn't have television, and I, as a katie, used

(23:25):
to think that the guy was in the radio singing.
I had no idea there was records. I used to
listen to these really wonderful records. But I remember writing
my own song, and it's called your Mind. My very
first song. I was probably i'd say around eight nine

(23:48):
years old or some shit. I said, You're a mine,
You're a mine, You're a mine, your mine, You're really really.

Speaker 10 (23:54):
Mine, and my love come, I love is ever last,
and your freedom line of view, and flower you light
up my life every hour.

Speaker 6 (24:06):
And as long as I can't remember the lyrics after that,
but that was my first thing I ever written, just
in my head by listening to the radio. So the
radio was a comfort for me where music was concerned,
and I just really listened all of those songs, and
there was songs like Mahelia Jackson was a big thing

(24:26):
in my house, even early songs like I don't know
if you know, you guys familiar with Toots and the Maytows,
you know, yeah, exactly a big Toots fan. My grandmother was,
you know. I mean, so a lot of these records.
Bing Crosby was a big thing. That King Cole was
a big thing in my in my household. So on

(24:47):
Sundays in Jamaica, it goes that type of music goes
well with chicken and rice and peace, which is when
we were doing these Sinatra records, These Sinatra records. You know,
we're repertoires that I too, and growing up on Sundays
because reggae in Jamaica didn't start playing till the I

(25:08):
would say probably around the eighties.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
Somebody told me that in Jamaica, that's the first big
superstar in Jamaica was like Bob Marley for real, Like
they were like, for real, that's the.

Speaker 6 (25:20):
Large, large largest, he's the large. Yeah, he's he's the
largest one. But there were people like, for instance, reggae
music was looked down on. It was get I was.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Going to ask, how how does that work with Okay,
every American, every j American that I know is super
super conservative mm hmm. And you know, I always wanted
to know how did Jamaican natives that are like the
parents of my Jamaican friends who are strictly Christian don't

(25:54):
like you know, uh, secular music and all that stuff.
How does that message with the culture of like Bob
Marley and like was that the gangster rap of the time?

Speaker 6 (26:08):
War Now, any Jamaican you know that is in that
kind of I tity for the lack of a better word,
kind of a person they were uptowners. So there's two things.
There's downtown and there's uptown. The uptown are the more
privileged class of people. You know what I'm saying. There's

(26:29):
the crazy story that Bob Marley lived on a street
called Hope Road, where is where Tough Gong is back
in the days. That's the same street that the King's houses,
which is where the Queen's resident is. Oh, that's where
that's the same that's the same street that the that
the Prime Minister's residences are. You know what I mean

(26:50):
when you look, when you look at it, that house
that Bob Marley lived in fifty six Hope World was actually.

Speaker 11 (26:55):
Purchased by Chris Blackwell, which was a white Jamaican that
lived around the corner at a place called Terra Nova
that is now a hotel, which was his original home.

Speaker 6 (27:06):
So it took it took a British, well, a Jamaica
white guy to actually buy that because there's a rastafar
and Bob wouldn't have been able to purchase that because
it was because it was what's known as classism in
Jamaica back in the days. So then so when you
look at Yellow Man and these guys, those guys at
one point in Jamaica. If you were a certain color,

(27:30):
you couldn't come past the halfway tree clock because that's
how it was because you ain't from that class. After
a certain hour, you're not up there. This is this
is years.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
Because to be from that class you had to be
lighter and more affiliated with exactly.

Speaker 6 (27:45):
So for me, I'm from the British rule the it's
just it's just if you're talking about colonialism, you know
from that that's inherited now, you know what I'm saying.
So as it goes, you see people coming into all
of this where you see uptowners now started to do
dance all you know what I'm saying. Like like take

(28:08):
for instance, like a Sean Paul is up he's from
the uptown. Junagan is from the uptown. Because those guys
are from parents that you know, when Bob Barley made money,
he went to Whole pro that's uptown. Yeah, Junigan. A
guy like Junigan would go to you know, a good
school and goes to while another set of people, now

(28:29):
they're from the streets of the streets, the hood of
the hood. You thought, well, seeve you gotten deep on
the gardens your top of the hood, the hood, the
hood you know what I'm saying. But after a while,
it's kind of became one when when the uptown kids
started to do it, then it started to become accepted.

Speaker 9 (28:44):
You mentioned Yellow Man earlier, and I've read uh some
like stuff about him, just about how some of the
struggles he faced, like being because he was albino, and like.

Speaker 6 (28:53):
It was a bino. The crazy thing about Yellow Man
is here's an albino guy. That's a guy that made
me want to get into music.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
That's right, Okay, gotcha right?

Speaker 6 (29:04):
Because I saw I went to a dance at Skateland,
which is a popular venue, and he spit his lyrics
and walked out. Yeah, well some other I think it
was I get to married. He had all the big
records at the time, walked and spit his lyrics and
walk out, and the whole dance walked out with him.
I was like, damn, I want to be that guy.

(29:25):
But but the crazy thing that he was an albino,
you know what I mean, which is also looked down
at in Jamaica. No, you know, he was like yo,
they called him. And he was at a place called
Poor Hopes at the time, which is kind of an
orphanage in a way that it came aroun right and
he rose out of that to become one of the superstar.
And now I always say to shift culture, it takes

(29:49):
a superstar, that means a star with superhero like talent, charisma, work, ethic,
charm right to shift because if you look at Yellow Man,
he didn't have a movement behind him, but the world
stopping took notice because he was a superstar, a star
with superhero like talent, chaparanks. He walked in the room.

(30:12):
You want to know who the fuck is that? That's
a superstar? You got stars, and stars will okay promote culture,
but are they gonna shift culture? You know what I'm saying.
And those are the guys that shift culture with superhero
like talent right where they don't need lights and they
don't need cranes throwing them out. They don't even need

(30:32):
a record company spending money. They just got that shit.
That swade they walk in and they open them to
everybody be like, who the fuck is that? That motherfucker
is the shit? That's what those guys are. Those are
that's the stars. And you have people who knew how
to find those. If you look at say you look
at everybody, say you look at all the billionaires. Now
you look at and question. You can understand this. You

(30:54):
got Kanye and then you got No No, but you
could understand. You're gonna understand what I'm saying. I'm playing. Yeah,
you got you got Kanye and you got Rihanna. Both
of them are billionaires or whatever. Right? Who is their lego? Jay? Right? Right?
And you look at you look at Nikki, and you
look at Drake. Who is their lego? Okay? You look

(31:15):
at fifty, You look at eminem you look you look
at uh A Snoop, who is his lego? Dray? You
look at Lisha Keys. Lisia Keys arguably one of the greatest,
you know, songwriter, singer, songwriter. But let's let's face it.
She got Clive Davis her first she had She didn't
have to have a worry like me and you was

(31:37):
where we gotta sit down and worry about whether we
got budgets or we got marketing. And she got all
of that. Clive major shadow of that. And guess what
her first interview was, Oprah. And if you think about
it now, who is our lego? Rick rick You guys
in the half leg Ricky guys in the half the lego,

(31:59):
you know what I'm saying. So, and I'm not against
the leg up. I'm for it, you know what I'm saying.
But in our culture, they have not been those opportunities
a lot.

Speaker 7 (32:08):
Well, you're giving the layup, you're giving it now.

Speaker 6 (32:11):
So that's all I do. If you look at the
if you look at the pattern of things that I do.
I did Summertime with an unknown artist named Rayvon Right.
I did It Wasn't Me with an unknown artist named
Rick Ra. I did Angel with an unknown artist named Ravon.
I did I Need Your Love with two unknown artists
named Mohambi and Fadi. I did Banana with Ann which

(32:33):
is the billion dollar, the two billion stream on TikTok
with an unknown artist name named Conqueror. And then I
just did Spice of one hundred and fifty million streams.
So I always look for that. Yeah, I look for
those records, those artists that have that thing, and I
go and I put that in there, and I make
those type of records because I'm not privileged to have

(32:54):
budgets and rollouts, you know what I'm saying. So I
just do what I can.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
This is already one of the half hour and it's
probably one of the greatest educations that I've had of
twenty twenty two from a person that's watched the Heart.
They fall like a billion times, is okay? So if
you are trying to establish yourself and not go to America,

(33:24):
there's just a difference between. You know, half of the
hip hop world came from Jamaica, but they had to
come to New York for us to shine. But if
you're in Jamaica and you want to get put on,
what is the route?

Speaker 3 (33:40):
Like what's can you walk me through?

Speaker 6 (33:43):
Now?

Speaker 2 (33:43):
I know it's different now because of like digital colonialism,
like you do one viral thing on YouTube and then
maybe make it, But say, okay, in the eighties, if
you want to get put on, how does what's the
what's the maze?

Speaker 5 (33:59):
The sort of had a circuits.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Journey.

Speaker 6 (34:04):
Yes, well to me, I'm glad you said now and then,
because it's totally different now than what it was then.
You know, back then it was highly it was highly
dependent on the sound system. So the sound system was
where you would go and freestyle. This is where we're
a super cat these guys come from. So you have

(34:25):
the Kilimanjaro, you have King Tubby's, you have Johnny's sound system,
you have all these sound systems. Those sound systems were
what the ghetto kids could get on and spit. So
they'll have these street dances, and on these street dances, anybody,
if you were good in the neighborhood and you and
you spitting on the streets and people are hearing you,

(34:45):
you create your little fan base. And it was once
a community. No, you get on that mic and you
get heard, you know what I mean. They used to
have a thing called the Tasties talent contests, which was
also a big way for people to get discovered back
in Jamaica, back in the early days, you know what
I mean. So the sound system was where it was
where because I even start I started on a sound
system out of Brooklyn too at the same time. That's

(35:07):
how I ended up on Gibralto sound System and created
my bus with in Brooklyn where I was at you know,
Starlight Ballroom, Builtmore Ballroom, all of that at that time,
and created my own little buzz and my own little name.
When I started doing Big Up and Mompy and all
those records, you know what I'm saying. But I started
for onsound systems. So that was it. Nowadays they got this.

(35:30):
You know, you don't need to like these kids artists.
Now they'll do work like you know you when you
were promoting the roots. I'm sure you traveled all over
the world and did regional radio and shit like that.
You know what I'm saying. They don't do that. Now
they do a click of the button and say, hey,
there goes promo.

Speaker 5 (35:49):
But it's a different challenge. I mean, they don't.

Speaker 9 (35:50):
We don't do like the radio and stuff, but it
is you can press that click of a button. But
the bottleneck is now everyone can press that button. So
now you're fighting for the attention even if you don't
you know, have the budgets or whatever, the talent with
the attention or the talent, right, you're just fighting for
the attention because everyone but you see, I.

Speaker 6 (36:09):
Disagree in some in one sense, I agree that there's
a lot of them. But if your true talent, you
could get through, because if you look at it, there's
a lot of bullshit. You know what I'm saying. If
you if you one of those guys that I'm saying,
you say that when you walk and you ain't got
to get your ship and be like, the fuck is that?

(36:31):
You're gonna know? You? You know, it's just gonna It's
like when you saw Coffee did that freestyle and everybody
looked up when she was on BBC one Extra and
she did that freestyle beside chronics and you're like, the
fuck is that? You know what I mean, You're curiosity
just jump and she ad was one freestyle, shen't do
nothing crazy issue, but it was just so special you

(36:54):
wanted to know who the hell that was. And so
no matter, you will get through the clutter if you're
that good and you have to be that, you just
got to be that. I always tell artists, I said,
you want to cut you the clutter? You gotta perfect
your craft?

Speaker 2 (37:11):
What does that entail in terms of reggae culture? Like
I know in hip hop culture, you know, the very
beginning to Reak spent a lot of time in dictionary
learning words he never knew before, you know, constantly like
what's what's impressive for a dancehall artist too?

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Is it melodic delivery? Is it words?

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Is it the rhythm that he happens to be rhyming over?

Speaker 6 (37:37):
Like what it's really what you bring to that you
just said to he studied the dictionary. That was what
he brought to the table that was different from everybody else.
It's really what you're bringing to the table right to
set you apart. Because everybody could sit there and say
they're gonna spit lyrics, But what is that that special
lot style that you're going to bring that's gonna set
you apart? For me, yeah, I was lyrical, but I

(38:01):
also had this voice. Yeah blaha, long time buster, grow
them onto jail. Reck that ship. Just set me the
funk apart. Wait, that was where that was recognizable something Wait, stop.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Wait, how did you developed that voice?

Speaker 6 (38:25):
I was in the military. I used to run cadences.

Speaker 7 (38:28):
This is the story I've been waiting for.

Speaker 6 (38:29):
Okay. Yeah, I used to run and see and say
I don't know, but I have been told see where's panished?
I used to sing because the drill instructures we talked
to you like that boy drop and give a toy boar.
You know, they put that voice, and so I used
to mock them as as as a joke because it
made came from I.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Swear man, wait till I tell Higgins this, Steve.

Speaker 6 (38:59):
And then and then the crazy part is I ended
up singing. I ended up doing Old Carolina in that voice. Yeah,
because if you listen, all right, if you ever listened
to that song called Bigger, Big Up, Big Up Big, Notice,
notice that's a that's a different tone of voice than
the Old Carolina, even if I.

Speaker 12 (39:19):
Tell you about that, yeah, big up, right, that ricket
is a different tone of voice, you know.

Speaker 6 (39:29):
And then I went ahead and did that.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Yeah, I didn't already fell on the floor before y'all
even got on the line. I'm just trying to I'm
blocking me. I my mind talking about it. It comes
from a Southern He took a Southern a mirror.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Wow, you took a Southern dialect, like like a drill sergeant.

Speaker 6 (39:50):
Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
The more you know, and.

Speaker 6 (39:54):
Just kind of worked that worked with that.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
So when did you move to the United States?

Speaker 6 (39:59):
I would I came to you. I was in nineteen
eighty five.

Speaker 5 (40:03):
Oh wow, okay, Oh, so.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
You came to these states specifically to go to the army. No.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
I came to the States. My mom was a journalist
in Jamaica, the main newspaper here called the Gleaner, the
Daily Gleaner, and my mother she migrated to the States
and I'm being I'm an only child. So I ended
up coming to America where her years afterwards, when I
was living with my grandmother in Jamaica, and in nineteen

(40:31):
eighty five I came up and it was a culture shock.
I lived that in New York Avenue between Tilden and Beverly,
in a building called the Irma. I can't remember it.
I went to Rasmus Fall and I just kind of
it was a shot well culture shop because I'm seeing snow.
And I think what shocked me the most was that

(40:51):
people did their laundries and laundromats because I could. I
couldn't because we did it in our backyard and the
holiday last Yeah. And I couldn't believe that people would
let people touch their draws like they would foe draws
and that I was. I was embarrassed when I went
to the launder back with my mother because people seeing

(41:14):
my draws. I was like, I couldn't believe that. I
was just I was just raised different. He was like,
You're gonna just You're gonna just fold your draws in
front of everybody like that, what the buck? Yeah? You
so to me, it was like that. So it was
a it was a big culture shop, but it was
also a melting pot because I didn't know there were Haitians,

(41:34):
and I didn't know there were Trinidadians. I didn't know
that there were Panamanians. I didn't know. I just knew Jamaica.
And then I started to figure out different people's cultures
and realize that they all were similar. That you know
a lot of them really embodied dance all and reggae,
and I was a kid that really soaked all of
that up.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
How did witnessing American hip hop affect you when you
got here?

Speaker 6 (42:02):
I went to Erasmus that had a lot of like
Special Lead was there. I had a lot of rappers
that came out of that school. So hip hop was apart.
It was a beat box era. So it's you know,
Slick Rick was Jamaican, you know, Dougie Fresh was. It
was that whole vibe. So the all that ship, it

(42:24):
was things that I was like, you know, so that
even when you guys had Rozelle, you know that I
was a big fan of Osh because you know, he
did that ship, you know what I mean? I think
I think when when we Houston died, we were at
the same day house and and that's when we did
a little freestyle thing with Rozelle at that time, so

(42:45):
I was into hip hop from that point of course.
Then I ended up knowing cool Her down the line
and realized how the whole thing come.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
But so wait, what high school? What high school?

Speaker 6 (42:55):
Was this? Erasmas Hall. It's the second and high oldest
high school in the United States. It's actually the high
school that Clive Davis started Arista out of, and where
Barbarus treisand graduated from a lot of huge, huge superstars
name there. It's in the heart of Flatbush. It's right
on Flatbush Avenue in Church, you know what I'm saying.

(43:16):
And that's where that's in Brooklyn, That's where I was,
I was at and that whole vibe, you know, it
is just where this this whole energy came from.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
You came here in eighty five, so I guess you
were sixteen?

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, yeah, all right, So what were your by that point?

Speaker 3 (43:36):
What were your life goals in terms.

Speaker 6 (43:38):
Of I wanted to be popular because because my my
mother dressed me funny. You know what's school. Yeah, that's
an old school Jamaican woman that you know. She she
would give me her jacket, you know, and she got
pink innad and light blue and shed and you know
the funk. I know, you know, she pours. I'm going

(43:59):
to school. You know, I wonder why nobody is, you know,
is being friends with me, you know, except the la
Haitian kids that he dress worse than me. So so,
but after a while, I had Once I started doing
was spitting lyrics. I became popular, and I realized that
if I I started talking, i'd see a little cutie.

(44:19):
I talk about her hair, you know, you know, or
bamboo hair, ear rings, and you know, I had to
talk about her boots and her sheepskin jacket, and you know,
I talk about all of that and spitting a rhyme.
I get a number, and I realized, oh ship, I
get chicks like this, okay, And I did music. I

(44:40):
wish I could say something deeper than that, but I
really pussy like that. I got into music because I
wanted to get laid. You know, I.

Speaker 5 (44:50):
Realized, I think that's everyone.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Alone, bro, you know, I realized that I split lyrics.

Speaker 6 (44:57):
I was a ghetto superstar. I got these local hits
into clubs for free. I drink for free, and I
walked out with the hottest chick and I was in heaven.
I was like, this is what I want to do.
So for me, you know, I love what yellow Man
did and I was fascinated by that. But when I
was in Brooklyn, there was no real outlet for dancer.
So my mother was like, you need to go do

(45:18):
something with yourself. And so I started to sell drugs,
you know. I started to sell weed. You know. I
was on clarks On nostri and you know what I mean.
And then had a spot down at Gates Avenue. So
you got into weed and coked and started, you know, hustling.
That's what. That's what because every Jamaica and I and
all my uncles they're all hustlers.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
So us, especially in New York, they had the good
weed all the Jamaica.

Speaker 6 (45:41):
Yeah, until after a while, motherfuckers start getting locked start
getting locked up, and you'd be like, Okay, I got
to get out of this shit, you know. And so
and so I went into the military. That's how I
ended up in the military. I walked down the Flatbush
Avenue at the junction and walked in and looked at
all the uniforms and looked at the Marines, and said, yeah,
I could get some chicks that I can get laid
to that. I want to know, that's the hardest, the hardest.

(46:08):
I didn't know. I just the uniform looked the best though,
because really, because really, if you think about it, who
wants to be in the In the Navy, there were
were a bell bottom bro a bell, but you know
there's got that little thing that looked like a blouse.
You make it right now. So for me, the Marines

(46:32):
just look like that, you know that that dressed blue
ship and that yo bro. I was like, yo, that ship,
I want to do that. And then this guy called Perez, uh,
sergeant Perez, I remember his name, that come in and
it's like, yo, you know he was my recruiter and
I want to get out of here by next week.
It's like, I can't get you off this. I get
you two weeks from now. I was like, if I

(46:52):
ain't going out next week, I ain't going and he,
you know, kind of worked some things. I ended up
going in two weeks after that is.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
Wait where did you go? And then when did you
realized that you was in the Marines? And that was different.

Speaker 6 (47:02):
I didn't know I was in the Marines because I
passed all the tests right, and I went to North
Carolina on the busy U a candler Jones. Yeah, June
stepped out on them yellow footprints and they just start screaming,
screaming in my face. Yeah nor North Carolina. Yeah, so
I accept them one of them yellow footprints and they
just start screaming at me and spitting, chewing tobacco, and

(47:26):
it was you know, so I chucked him because I'm
I'm from Brooksly and I was like years and I
see like six of them come down on me. I
was like, okay, that's a bad idea.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
As a teenager, were you super rebellious?

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Like what is it to be in the American Army?

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Like in terms of like do you realize like, okay,
this is something that has a lot of discipline and
we got to wake up five in the morning to.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
A bunch of or at least this is what I
see on television.

Speaker 6 (47:57):
But being an only child a very strict mother, I
was I was very good. Like I would come yeah,
I would come home from school and I'd be the
only person so I knew where the key was on
the under the map. I'd go and I make myself
a sandwich. I do my homework because my mom would
whoop ass. It wasn't you know my my mom would

(48:19):
send you for the ship to whoop your ass. You
know you'd be like get yeah, yeah, that's when I'm saying, yeah,
go get that ship, you know what I mean. So,
and it and the beatings was not it was you
know them was some legendary or ass whooping, you know
what I mean. So I was raised on that. So
for me coming to America, I was always very disciplined

(48:41):
and on it. I really didn't get into too many trouble.
But I also like nice things and I and I
wanted to be fly and I wanted to be you
know what I mean. So if if I worked at
Basket Robbins for one day, you know, I had a
little apron on a little thing and the chicken there
was a hot Puerto Rican chick came and and she
wanted you know, started asking needs to scooping her ice cream.

(49:05):
Just didn't look cool. I was like, this ain't medo.
I was out shack.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
How far did you get? And you're really your hands
registered as weapons?

Speaker 6 (49:19):
I don't know if my hands are registered as a weapon,
but I was in the first Gulf War. I did
Dore's a storm.

Speaker 7 (49:30):
Yet respect not bad, must respect.

Speaker 6 (49:33):
Thank you. I did four years. But I didn't come
out as funny. I didn't come out as a model Marine.
I came out one above a private. I got demoted twice.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Wait demoted? Yeah, how did you get demoted for a wall?

Speaker 6 (49:49):
Because I would? I would drive from North Carolina to
New York every weekend and you're not supposed to go
outside of a fifty mile radius, and I would drive,
would I? I did it Oh Carolina and big up
in my uniform on a weekend and went back in
on soup circle in on forty second Street. They had

(50:09):
to think called soup circles where you'd jump in the
van and they'd take you back. And so I did
those records in my uniform, you know what I mean.
And I would drive, and if I drive, i'd drive
down in my uniform so that most of the state
troopers were ex military, so they stopped you. They'd be like, okay,
slow down, Marine and let you go. So I would
always drive in my uniform and I'd come to and

(50:32):
link up with Sting International, who was a DJ out
of Brooklyn, at the time, and you know, and was
my early producer, and we would make records and I'd
go right back in. So my early records like mom Pid,
those songs when it happened, I was in the military.
I didn't even know they were.

Speaker 5 (50:45):
Hot in Brooklyn.

Speaker 6 (50:46):
They were just hot.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (50:48):
And were those records put out on a label or
how did the business work?

Speaker 6 (50:51):
Yeah, it was a little. There was a little. There
was a guy called Ben Sokolov. His brother was Will Sokolov.
Will Sokalov had Oh yeah, Will Sokolov had the Sleeping
Bag label. Yes, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, so
so so I did a record called Gunshot, which was
a big record that was blowing up on Sleeping Jazzy.

(51:11):
Jeff would know about that record because he loved that. Yeah,
so I right, and that was on Sleeping Bag. And
Ben Sokolov was his brother that had this label called Signet,
And then I would put all of those early records
like Big Up and Mompey. All those records came out
e'tn old Carolina came out initially on Signet. Yeah, but

(51:34):
then he tried, he tried some. When I got I
got signed for a million dollars in nineteen ninety three,
the biggest amount in the history of dance, all the
reggae at that time. And then he was trying to
you know, he was trying to do the E G
E B GB on me. You know, yes, we had
to cut that nigga loose Wait, we had to cut
on boy and loose Jack.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
I always wanted to know this because I don't I
don't know if I know vin musician that served in
any of the Bush one era wars. But when they're
going to send you guys to kuwait, what's going through
your mind? Because you know, before that period, all we
knew was Vietnam, And I think that America had this

(52:17):
whole like never again, like we'll never get into another
war ever again in this lifetime. And then like I remember,
like when they may be announcement, especially in ninety one,
that yeah, we're going to go to war, you know
that that was like a I mean, now, a tragedy
happens and then it's just like drop something, you know, right,

(52:41):
But you know, back then it was like, Yo, what's
gonna happen? So like in your mind, what were your thoughts?

Speaker 6 (52:49):
My thoughts at that point was to hate the dude
that actually convinced me to go in the military, a
guy called Mark. I forgot his last name. He was
my boy. It was like, oh yeah, in the military.
And then when I signed up, he had tried to
send a letter to me saying, don't come into this ship.
Don't come into this ship. Already I was already done.
I was like that asshole, here I am. People do

(53:11):
twenty years in the military and they get a paycheck
for the rest of their life. I do four years
and I'm in a fucking war, Like what are the odds?
And That's what was going through my mind as far
as my life is concerned. It really gave me an
opportunity to be thankful or take a lot of things,

(53:32):
not take a lot of things for granted. Like I
used to take my mom's cooking for granted because I
was thinking that I'm gonna go to my next door
neighbors his mom cooked better, you know what I'm saying,
or whatever it is. And I would get up out
of my bed and not not make it. When I
was in the war, I was sleeping on a cop
you know, our sleeping bag, or and then I was

(53:55):
eating mrs Yeah, and then and I never me it
was ready to eat. It's it's like it's yeah, pre
read process process military food. And then I would I
would have to dig a hole to take a dump.
And it's so much ship that hits you. Then you

(54:17):
realize that, oh ship, you had a lot of things
good that you didn't realize. So when I got out
the military, I was a changed person in so many
ways because I realized what not to take for granted,
you know what I'm saying, there's a lot of things
that really So while I was in there, I didn't
fear for my life. So because we were so gunn

(54:38):
hold about and in the military, in the in the war,
it was hurry up and wait. So literally we fought
the war for about two days. The rest of it
was you know, running around and moving around. The two
days of two to three days of heavy fighting. Then
they stopped. It was where it was in the shell.
And those three days was crazy. We were we moved.

Speaker 5 (55:01):
Yeah, you came back home.

Speaker 9 (55:02):
Did you like have to go through any kind of
therapy or counseling just to kind of Resinah?

Speaker 6 (55:08):
No, that was that was the easiest war because you
got low It wasn't like Afghanistan or this place. You know,
the Gulf War was a cake walcome player to the
rest of those bro you know what I mean. It
was low casualty, and I get it. You know, we
lost people, So one son or daughter from my mama
or pop is not low casualty. But in the pat

(55:28):
of things, yeah, it's considered low low casualty. So I
got out, you know, unfazed by it, but in a
way very thankful, very appreciative, and very aware of how
fortunate I am, you know, And I never looked back.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Once you once you signed the dotted line and the
government owns you, Yeah, how fast can you get out
of it?

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Like I'm certain that And basically four years you got
to do your four years.

Speaker 7 (56:01):
Okay, it's high school college.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Unless you get kicked out.

Speaker 6 (56:04):
Unless you get kicked out. Yeah, and if you get
kicked out, then you know you you can't own and
you can't hold any government jobs, you know what I mean.
There's so many things that you can't do once you
get kicked out issues.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Government as in like garbage man two, like even.

Speaker 6 (56:25):
Anything police, anything, any you can't do any of these
those things. There's certain things you just can't do when
you're out. If you look at Walt Disney, when you
always see Walt Disney sitting down, if you notice there's
always those pictures behind him, there was one that was
upside down. That was his dishonored with discharge.

Speaker 7 (56:44):
Oh wow, all.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Right, hey, hey, there's a major history of like Jimmy Hendrick,
Rick James, Like, yeah, people that I.

Speaker 6 (56:58):
Was not a model marine. I came one of PFC.
But if you go to Paris, Holland, now my picture
is like shaggy, they sell me. Yeah, they used me
a cruit these days.

Speaker 9 (57:12):
How did you transition, because you know, being in the military,
that's like very you know, rigid, it's you structure, you have,
you know, time every day. How was the transition going
into the music business where nothing is structured?

Speaker 5 (57:27):
How did you make that transition?

Speaker 6 (57:29):
I think it's what set me apart from everybody else,
certainly in downs, you know, apart from me having a
sound on a different style of music. I will I saw, Yeah,
I was professional, I was on time, I worked really
hard and you know, and it really set me apart
from everybody else. That's that's what really did. So that

(57:50):
transition wasn't hard because I was I was in the
military doing that.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Let it be known that Shaggy might be the first
QLs guest that showed up ten minutes early before the
interview started. I was in a car on the way
home from the tonight show and they're like, he's here already.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
I'm like, yo, man, I didn't even get to my apartment.

Speaker 7 (58:11):
Correct the Shaggy, go ahead, correct.

Speaker 6 (58:13):
Them fifteen minutes early, not ten, just making me do pushups.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Well, Shaggy, I always wanted to know this, Okay. So
when I started to seriously DJ, especially, you know, there
was the period where a lot of the I guess

(58:40):
the WP record compilation stuff started coming out, and basically,
you know, you have a gazillion Okay, First of all,
what would I call?

Speaker 3 (58:52):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (58:52):
So if someone looks at someone in hip hop and
the person that's doing the rhyme or whatever, we'll say, okay,
that's the MC the rap Yeah. I know that technically
you guys are DJs, but like, what would you commonly
call the person with the microphone in dance all culture?

Speaker 3 (59:11):
Are you calling him an MC or a rapper?

Speaker 6 (59:14):
DJ? DJ music? Say what? So? DJ? They used to
call it back in the day toasting, like like the
British will call it toasting. But in dance culture in Jamaica,
say you use a DJ to this day, my nickname
is DJ.

Speaker 7 (59:33):
Like in the back with the records, who is he
select them?

Speaker 6 (59:38):
I knew that I was just.

Speaker 7 (59:39):
Testing everybody else.

Speaker 6 (59:41):
I knew that right.

Speaker 7 (59:44):
Select that I got.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
You can you tell me the process, especially you know,
starting in at least eighty seven eighty eight, when like
dance all is really really finding it's it's legs.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
How do rhythms get distributed?

Speaker 6 (01:00:00):
Like, how are you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Guys aware that yo? Okay, let's let's take the most
infamous one, which is the SLI and Robbie Murdercy wrote rhythm.

Speaker 6 (01:00:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Now, you know, we live in a time where you
can pick up your iPhone and something goes viral. But
how are people aware that there's a new rhythm ready
to be like right for business in which you know,
I can rhyme over this or or not rhyme toast
over this.

Speaker 6 (01:00:29):
Well you know that particular rhythm. A lot of people
don't know that Robbie Shakespeare wasn't really on that it
was really it was really sly. Now team their team.

Speaker 13 (01:00:43):
Has Slier Robbie, but right, Robbie really didn't play based
on that. It was really, it was really and Robbie
has been a very very close friend of mine for years,
you know.

Speaker 6 (01:00:53):
But that rhythm itself, you know, it was made with
with akadem Is, some Plyers and they did two songs
on it. I think Pliers did Bam Bam, which was
a cover of the old twots right, and then and
then they did Murder she wrote, And those were the

(01:01:16):
two records. First. It didn't become a rhythm until after
that where people sly started to make it as a
ridden for other people to do and started doing different Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
I'm gonna just say it, you guys, because I'm gonna
say it for the folks that don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:01:28):
Just tell them what the rhythm is. Tell them what
the rhythm is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
The background so like don't you notice like sometimes you'll
hear the same song, you'll hear the same musical bath
drop everybody like.

Speaker 5 (01:01:41):
Way back the the what was the right right? And
that was that's the rhythm.

Speaker 6 (01:01:50):
So the Wally rhythm is done by Lanky Marsden, who
was also a protege of Slim Robbie to be honest
with you and and Leanky Marsden is one of the
arrangers on this new album with Me and Sting. Yeah,
so he created that and did Sean Paul Get Busy
and all of those records and then he wanted to
know Letting Go and all that. Yeah, that record that

(01:02:13):
was a very popular ridden too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Well, I'm just asking from the musical standpoint. So say,
if I make a beat, right, I produce something, Yeah, do.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
I want everyone to rhyme over it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
And am I getting paid like the person that does
the rhythm to or whatever d like when he does
that rhythm and then like thirty people are rhyming and
releasing records on that rhythm.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Am I getting paid thirty times?

Speaker 6 (01:02:42):
Or am I just yes you are? Okay, oh yes
you are? Because because each song, each song is a
new composition. So little Me d uh oh is a
different composition, Sean Paul uh, get Busy is a different composition.
So wonder yeah you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
So there's no there's no like territorial pissing, Like I
don't know, like if I made something dope like grinding
by the clips, if the clips rhyme are over grind
and I would figure that Pharrell wouldn't want anyone else
to have that musical backdrop except for the artisty intensive.

Speaker 6 (01:03:17):
Yeah, but if you, but but if you, if you're
in the business of money, you're going to have dope, right,
you know.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
Said jacking your ship. But if you're saying it.

Speaker 6 (01:03:29):
Like, all right, take a bridge, you got you got,
Sting did every berth you take and then Puffy did
it over with I'll be miss you, it's the same
be Sting.

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
Got paid twice and now you'll just like Mary's samples
are marrying into the rhythm.

Speaker 6 (01:03:46):
You know, It's just it's the same ship, you know,
So if you I want that to happen. Nowadays, it's
not as popular to have rhythms again as much. You know,
it's not it doesn't dominate like that. It's mainly an
Internet really changed that. So you'll see people do you know,
because YouTube is where most Jamaicans consume. They're they're they're streaming,

(01:04:06):
so they'll be buying into these songs. And it's too easy,
you know, to just get into different different songs.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
Now, well, that's my next question.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
I was about to say, like I haven't seen a
new rhythm since like two.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Thousand and seven. Almost it's almost like it it went out.
So for you, where is dancehall culture?

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
I have a feeling that, like, is there something new
that the younger generation is embracing.

Speaker 6 (01:04:37):
Chronics Chronics is a part of the new generation. I
would think, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
These are old soul.

Speaker 6 (01:04:43):
Yeah, but but but but there that's a guy where
the music that he made was appealing to the young,
young guys, but also to older people. You know what
I'm saying, People fuck with Chronics who were old people
were young, you know what I'm saying. But as far
as that, as far as dance All, now, you know,
if you look at what dance all is right now,

(01:05:05):
it's a different kind of a sound. But what dance
all is looking for is that superhero star that I'm
telling you about to really make it cool and shift it.
You know, the sound might very well be there. It's
a combination of two things, a sound, right and the
artists and the star. Because you could sing something backwards

(01:05:26):
in the Hebrew. If you cool enough doing it, you're
gonna grab onto it. Do you get what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Is there a lack of a certain type of charisma? Yeah,
I mean the same way that there will never be
another Michael Jackson, There'll never be another prince.

Speaker 6 (01:05:41):
And I'm gonna break it down to you. I'm gonna
tell you why I'm break it down to you. There
is a lack of that because you might have somebody
who's really talented, but they don't have charisma. Or you
might have somebody that got the charisma but he can't
spit real well. Or you might have somebody that got
the rithman he could spit well, but then the person's lazy, ship,

(01:06:03):
don't want to do no interviews, don't want to go
nothing now and so, or you might have somebody got
all of that, but they got to manage it. That's
just a fucking idiot, you know what I'm saying. So
when you when you look at it, if you to
get a superstar, that super you gotta have all of
that lined up. Take for instance, you look at Afrobeat.
Everybody say Afrobeat has been coming forever, blah blah blah

(01:06:25):
blah blah blah blah. Okay, but you look at Berna
boy right now is the biggest in the world. Now.
If you go to like Nigeria and talk to problem
the average person to be like bernaboy, is that guy?
You know what I mean? You go because same ship
that go on a different day with a different artist,
you know, the same shit with me. Oh shah, yeah,
ain't that you know? Whatever it is?

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
So whoever the popular one is.

Speaker 6 (01:06:45):
But what sets burn a boy apart? That's that's the
guy that did the work, Because how are you gonna
tell the guys in Africa? Africa is a continent. These
guys are driving Lamborghinis and Ferrari. You're gonna tell him
to come over here and do quest Love show for free?
I fuck got it. It takes. It takes. It takes

(01:07:07):
a different mindset of a guy to be like, you
know what, I'm seeing a bigger picture here. I'm gonna
go do Quest's ship for free, and I'm gonna and
I'm gonna come from fifteen minutes early and make sure
that that motherfucker see me when he comes. I mean,
and it ain't money for that guy, it's it is
really a bigger picture of where he wants to go.

(01:07:30):
That's that's what Bernard boy hats. That's the guy that
decided that he's gonna do it. Now, what's gonna happen
now is once he gets that, you're gonna see a
lot of motherfuckers who was driving him car be like, yo,
I want to be as big as that might. Yo,
he ain't shit fuck that. You know, they're gonna start
to work now because he's now setting that trend of
what to do. You know this, right after Shaggy, there
was a Shan Paul I mean, and that then because Trent,

(01:07:53):
you know this right after remember what motherfuckers used to
do until Jay started putting on suits, you know, and
and and put it fitted on, and then motherfuckers became
instead of rappers, they became wounds, you know, and remember that.
And Jade came with a model. You know, he went Beyonce.
I saw fifty do an interview the other day and say,
we know why j madde because he signed that contract?

(01:08:15):
What contract Beyonce? Because because Beyonce was this leverage. Because
you're gonna have a different conversation now when you got
Beyonce in the room, you know what I'm saying. That's
the difference. And if you if you look at the model,
it became okay. So what came after that? Kanye and
Kim same model, Swiss and Alicia same model right right now,

(01:08:39):
you got Cardi b and and same same model, you know.
I mean it's it's been patterned because it was blueprinted
by Jay and you saw that it worked and you
followed it. You know what I'm saying, That's all we're
trying to do in dance all is create that mold.
That'd be like, oh ship, that's blueprinted. This motherfuck made that.

(01:09:01):
I'm gonna fuck with that, and you might do a
spin off of it. And they got me exactly the
same way. But you know, you got something as a
guide to bring you there.

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
But making that next shaggy it's more of a challenge,
I think than people even know, because I was I
was just thinking about this as we were talking about
these other records that came out during the time when
you did, like even with the murder she Wroats or flex.
The other one thing that you have and that nobody
ever did, and we don't want to admit this as Americans,
is that we knew what the fuck you was saying,

(01:09:32):
because for like the rest of those records, we were But.

Speaker 6 (01:09:35):
That was calculated. I figured it out, you know what
I mean. I took I knew motherfuckers like reggae because
they liked the cadences and the floor. I took dance
all cadences. But I just spoke to Queen's English. So
I put a little patrol word there and there. But
then I made it clear enough a lot of things.
One big party and you're still young. Well, who's gonna

(01:09:56):
have their back when it's all dumb? It's all go
the way you have that accent that is there. But
that was deliberate. It was an accident.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
But to the point where people questioned, But to the
point where people questioned your validity as like, let.

Speaker 7 (01:10:09):
Me tell you that from Jamaica.

Speaker 6 (01:10:10):
Ya, dude, that ship killed It made me and killed
me at the same time. It made me because I
got on every single radio and my records would be
it killed me. Couldn't be like that nigga ain't real Jamaican.
You don't hear that motherfucker. You know what I'm saying.
That motherfucker in Jamaican, And I am more Jamaican than
all that motherfuckers because I'm not. I'm from the gutters
of Jamaica. I'm from the Jamaica, And I mean I

(01:10:34):
did everything Jamaican out of there. But at the end
of the day, as history absorbs you after a while.

Speaker 7 (01:10:40):
That story wasn't shaggy though.

Speaker 4 (01:10:42):
That part of the story was never told about you
because of the fact that you skipped and went to
that pop thing. So everybody who was pushing toward that
direction had no idea that we wanted to hear that
story necessary and.

Speaker 6 (01:10:54):
I didn't want I didn't want to go pop. I
just go where there understood, understand because if you because
if you think about there's another guy that was in
my company, his name was Bob Marley. Yes, I noticed
that Bob Marley was never played on black radio.

Speaker 7 (01:11:09):
Yes, yes, he was played.

Speaker 6 (01:11:11):
He was played on rock radio. Yes. It's so ironic
now that that Marley has now become a symbol of
black people and and the black struggle, but was not embraced.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
You're right, it's funny because it was truly black radio's fault,
not black people, which my mother always makes it clear, like,
don't get it twisted. I saw the documentary too. We
fucked with him.

Speaker 6 (01:11:35):
Radio did not exactly exactly, So it's so ironic. And
then what was so what was so crazy is that
the Marley music that you hear now that is now
the blueprint of reggae music was actually a hybrid because
of because of rock. Because let me show you Chris Blackwell.

(01:11:56):
To get to get reggae to be played on rock record,
he hired a session musicians to do overdubs and a
lot of the original Whalers records created a high and
created a hybrid. And that's how and those records are
now the blueprint of what reggae music is now. If
you look at it, even with Sting and the Police,
Sting used to idols. Sting told me this that he

(01:12:18):
tried to to emolate. He tried to immolate a family man,
and and and the Whales and all of these reggae bands,
and what he created, he couldn't do it. So what
he ended up doing was a hybrid version of it,
which became the sound.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Of the Yeah right.

Speaker 6 (01:12:39):
It became white rege and and and if you look
at if you look at the Police, they were really
the first white reggae band that sold millions, you know.
And then if you look at it now at all
the rest of the band, you look at, you be
forty All of these bands that have sold over ten
million are massive. They're all white. You be forty, no

(01:13:00):
doubt a bass you know, no way right. Even now,
the two biggest reggae bands is Soldia and Revolution, white
reggae bands.

Speaker 7 (01:13:11):
I was with Spice in that fight. She should should
have won.

Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
Josh got out one matter of fact. Matter of fact,
Bob Marley was arguably the biggest reggae artists of all times.
Only Number one was I Shot the Sheriff. That was
done by the white guy, Eric Eric Clapton.

Speaker 4 (01:13:27):
Wow, you got to teach this master class.

Speaker 7 (01:13:31):
Shaggy damn Shaggy.

Speaker 6 (01:13:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
When when you're when you're having this initial success with
with Caroline and all these hits, you know you're you're
now stepping into spaces and territories that are you know,
only for you know, the elite artists. And so what's
that experience like like now getting to play these stadiums

(01:13:58):
and doing these shows that otherwise you know you're not
doing these, like local run of the mill nightclubs.

Speaker 7 (01:14:05):
And sound systems.

Speaker 6 (01:14:09):
I tell you what, I never felt accepted. I believe
that I was never felt accepted in any of it.
I always felt out of place, even though I was
in the room with some of these big names and
I sold those numbers. I never felt like I was
accepted as part of it. It was like, Okay, he's

(01:14:30):
just a thing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:32):
Oh you got lucky and you're here.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
So even when you like, performed from Michael Jackson at MSG,
because I think he actually said I love this song
I saw it was about.

Speaker 6 (01:14:44):
Yeah, he said it was his favorite record. But Michael
gave me a speech. Like I spoke to Michael and
he gave me a speech. And when you're talking to
Michael Jackson and he knows everything about your album more
than you, Wow, you realized that that person is stud
like he was. He was asking me a BYuT album tracks,
not singles, album tracks.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Quick backstory, Mike, So Michael Jackson before streaming culture, Michael
had like four dudes every week, like four guys would
have to study every chart around the world.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
Yeah, and then make.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
Michael Jackson a compilation of every top twenty chart for
every country in the world. So every Monday morning, Michael
Jackson's getting a new compilation of whatever is like just
got into the top twenty and he's studying it.

Speaker 6 (01:15:40):
And he Likelive Davis, Clive Davis did the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Yeah, Okay, and then if he likes what he hears,
then he studies that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
Artist whole history.

Speaker 6 (01:15:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
Yeah, it was explains why he takes like six years
between records, so he's busy.

Speaker 6 (01:15:54):
So Michael for me was a validation because for one,
I didn't even know the guy named my name. Right,
Imagine how shocked I was that I got the invite.
I'm like, I'm dansall, are you serious? Or the genre?
I'm like yeah, And and and that I was going
to be on Prime Time singing that ship you know
what I'm saying, and then he reacted out. He reacted

(01:16:16):
So that was that was a moment for me. So
that was a part of the validation for me. But
I think the biggest validation I got was Sting. That
that was the biggest validation for me. That, like Sting
restored every confidence that I was lacking.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
Talk about it. How did you guys meet?

Speaker 6 (01:16:36):
You know? Funny enough, I'm mixeding in two thousand and
four and Antwerp and I jumped on stage and did
rock sand and I never saw him again into years after.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
Was that the Police reunion?

Speaker 6 (01:16:49):
No, it wasn't produce unit. He was just you know,
doing on his own No, he did rock yeah on
his own. Yeah, he does that every d It's his song,
he wrote, He wrote, all so it's good. Well that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
But normally, normally when I see Sting, you know, I
get jazzy Sting or whatever, like he never touches his.

Speaker 6 (01:17:07):
Nose, you know, he's that. That night he did and
we ended up broking in Antwerp. I was on a
thing called Night of the Problems with Me. James Brown,
sending Law pointed, sister, all of us was there. It
was a big orchestra thing. We were there for a month,
you know, and wow, and that's when I met James
Brown too, who took a liking to me and kicked

(01:17:28):
my door in and gave me a full fucking sit
down one evening.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
What was that like?

Speaker 6 (01:17:34):
He walked into my dressing room with a with a
bodyguard guy behind him and the dude that always put
the thing over his shoulders and and he walked in
and said and said, he says, sit down, I want
to talk to you. And I was like, oh ship,
I'm not getting like a James Brown beat down or something.

(01:17:57):
So I sat and then he was like, let me
tell you something. I don't watch you every night.

Speaker 12 (01:18:02):
I seen them come. I see him go. I've been
to your country, a part of Molly. Let me tell
you something. You good, you the truth, you funny. You
need to let me see both sides.

Speaker 6 (01:18:12):
And I'm looking at him, say, let me tell you something.
Can take away your woman, your house, your car, your money.
There's one thing that never.

Speaker 12 (01:18:19):
Take away from you your talent. And as long as
you have your talent, you're a rich man. Keep doing
you doing, God bless you. Get up and walked out.

Speaker 6 (01:18:28):
That was my James Brown you know moment. And I
was like, because he would because he would come out
on the stage like all of us. We have these
orchestra that was playing that we would come out every
now and then and play different different songs, and he
would come out every time it was my segment. He
pulled a chair up and he just sit down and
watch wow and then yeah. And then I would be like, mister, mister,

(01:18:54):
they would say, mister Brown. I'd be like, god father,
you'd always and he comes in and you know you always.
It was hollering at me like that, and it just
really took a liking to me. For some reason. I
heard it was a hard ass. But he was like,
really just a really cool guy to me. For some reason,
he just you know, he just liked me, you know.
So we were there doing that and then Sting came

(01:19:14):
in and for one night that and we gave up
the night and that's the first time I met him.
Years afterwards, Markin Kiirzenbaum, who was my a n r
at at Geffen when you know, you remember that time
when mc HA turned into Geffen. Remember, so Martin Martin
was the head of international and he was the only

(01:19:36):
person that really championed my my project at that time
with Asexy Lady and these other records, and so I
decided to say, hey, that guy championed me. I told Jimmy,
I want him to be my an R. And so
Martin and I became really good friends. Martin then did
cher Tree label and signed Lady Gaga and LMFAO and
all of these big, big, bigger bands. And when Martin

(01:20:00):
left Interscop, he started managing Sting because he was also
stings A and r FI years and he just thought
he knew me and new Sting and just thought that
we would get along. And I had a song called
Don't Make Me Wait, and Martin says I love that song,
could you send it to me? So I sent it
to him and I'm in the student in LA. When

(01:20:21):
I send it to him, I'm doing some ship and
Sting walked in singing it and he was like, do maybe,
come on, Shaguless, make this a hit. I was like, oh,
it happened. Yeah, it was like really And we sat
there and he looks at me and he says, now,
I want you to produce me. I wanted to be authentic.
This is your this is your genre. I want you

(01:20:42):
to and I'm like, you want me to produce you?
That's what? What's that?

Speaker 4 (01:20:49):
I hear?

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
He's hard to take instruction.

Speaker 6 (01:20:51):
So no, he's very easy, he said, one of the
easiest guys. You could do. The other thing, you could
realize what Sting is that when he's creating. If he
comes up with something and you like it and he
likes it, just know he's doing thirty more of them
and he might come back to the original. Wow, that's

(01:21:11):
his process. It might be frustrating to you that if
you hear that one that you like, he's not okay,
I know you like that. Okay, we'll put that in
the pocket. Now I got thirty more to do.

Speaker 3 (01:21:24):
Right, so you gotta have patience.

Speaker 4 (01:21:25):
Dumb question, guys, Shaggy, are you the first reggae artist
the thing is work with.

Speaker 6 (01:21:32):
I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't think
this thing has worked with so many people, But I'm
I'm the first one an album.

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:21:40):
He's never he's never done a full album with anyone
like that. Man do a full album together and it
was a camaraderie. We met each other and just and
just was like we had more fun than music and
we just started laughing and just it just happened.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
We performed with each other, like I think right before
the pandemic, the summer before and when I got the record,
I always wanted to know, why did you guys name
it forty four eight seven six?

Speaker 6 (01:22:10):
Well? Who was just trying to be creative?

Speaker 3 (01:22:12):
What's the what's the significance behind the number?

Speaker 6 (01:22:15):
So? So four four is the eric is the is
the phone code when you're in the uk U prison?
Plus four four.

Speaker 3 (01:22:22):
Oh plus four four eight seventy six.

Speaker 6 (01:22:25):
And eight seventy six is Jamaica. So it's four four
to eight six Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
Before we close, I definitely want to get to this
this new project. So come like I did not see
this coming. Now, Yeah, I'm a Sinatra fan. Like, tell me,
tell me the genesis of how you came up with
this idea. I'm going to do Frank Sinatra covers.

Speaker 6 (01:22:56):
We were on tour on the four four eight seventy
six two and we had a day off in like Norway,
one of these places, and we're on the fields on
a boat. Sting says, let's let's take a boat out
and just hang out for the day. And then we
were out there and it was me and Dominic Miller's guitarists,
and we're all out there on the boat. We had

(01:23:18):
drinks and everything, and then he jumped off into the
water and started swimming, and I was like, I do
that ship, That's just that's just cold. I'm Jamaican, right,
ain't me?

Speaker 7 (01:23:30):
Bro?

Speaker 6 (01:23:31):
So I just he jump off and sing and started
to swim in there him and dominate, and I said,
I'm staying on the boat. So while they was out
there swimming, I'm like, okay, let me put on some music.
So I just put on some Sinatra because I like
Sinatra and I was raised on Sinatra in Jamaica, Like
I say, it's Sunday music. So I just started playing

(01:23:52):
it from my phone and then Sting was coming back
up on the boat and I was singing along to it,
and he just looked at me and says, yo, that's
your key. I'm like okay. I was like, no, no, no,
you have the same You have the same tone as
as Sinatra. That's he's a base tendor, you're a base
tenor that's And so he's going to meet with all

(01:24:14):
this ship and I'm like all right, well, yeah, sure,
whatever you know. And then we started talking and he said, well,
we'll be cool if we did this in reggae and
blah blah blah, all this shit. The ship stayed away
to like this is before the pandemic alledge to just
sit around with ain done ship. And then last year,
at the top of the year, he looks at me,

(01:24:34):
he says, what the year before, he says, you know,
we should. He was doing this thing in Vegas, we
call it the Residence Residency, and I went out there
to do to the Residency and sat and kind of
jumped on stage of the night and we were backstage
and I started singing the Sinatra shit again and he's
playing and ship and he says, Shay, we should do this.
I'm like, all right again, I'm not thinking nothing, and

(01:24:56):
he's like, what are you doing the top of the year,
I said, I'm going to be Myami. He says, let's
do it. And then top of the year he came
to my house in Miami and he called me and said, oh,
we're going to do it. So I ended up flying
some musicians up and we did it in my at
my house, in my student in my house in Miami
and started doing it there. By the end of the week,
I had like eight songs. I was like, oh, Ship,

(01:25:18):
this has really happened and it really sounded it. And
then we ended up going to Jamaica. Now we got
like Dean Fraser, Lanky Mars, then we got all the
original dudes, We got all the backgrounds done, and then
we ended up going to l a At Capitol into
Sinatras and we did like you know the yeah, yeah
we did it original, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
We weren't there.

Speaker 6 (01:25:39):
Yeah, yeah, it's trippy. It's yeah, it's trippy, you know
what I mean. And so we ended up doing that
and then it was Rob who'd done was good at
that repertoire that Sting brought in, you know, and we
had to because most reggae records are good on two chords,

(01:26:03):
you know this, and it's the most reggae records are
two chords, and Sinatra is you know, four or five
six chord changes. We had to figure out the genius
was how to figure it out to make it not
be more jazz than reggae, because if it's too jazz,
then it's just gonna be corny. And if it's too reggae,
then it's got enough jazz. So you have to take

(01:26:25):
the right amount of chords out to make it work.
And if that was strip it down, and that was
experimental because if it won't too much, then it would
be you know, it would be two corn if it's
too much and right, you know, And it became it
became a really really hard process, and it took Sting

(01:26:46):
really hearing what he was saying. All the vocals was
produced by Sting, like he sat there with me and
taught me every note the piano, just like nope, nope,
not that, nope, not that, nope, not you know, and
really cracked on me to make sure that I got yeah,
cracked the whip to make sure that I did. I
did average about two songs a day.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
What was the most challenging song in the songbook? To conquered?

Speaker 6 (01:27:15):
Lucky a Lady was hard, because yeah, Lucky a Lady
was really really hard and Saturday night and I would think,
I think that's life was also cha, Yeah it was.
It was alright, and you know it, and it's it's
really just he wanted it, like he says. He kept
saying to me, don't do Sinatra. I don't want Sinatra.

(01:27:39):
I want Shaggy. And it was important for him to
get that you're you're doing Sinatra songs, you're in the
same registers, and but don't do Sinatra. I want you
to because I had a tendency of mimicking people, mimiced
to that. I was like, no, I want Shaggy, you know,
and he was.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
He was adamant about So at one point, you took
your trademark voice away to try to clean like Sinatra.

Speaker 6 (01:28:06):
No, no, it wasn't even that I would still use
that voice, but just the way Sinatra would sing it.
Note for note, I was copying that and he didn't
want that. It's like I want shaggy. You know it's
gonna be it's gonna you gotta bring that reggae flavored.
It's reggae. I want that shaggy, you know. And he
was he was very adamant about it. I mean talking

(01:28:28):
when I say every line, man, I mean, we would.
He was really on it. He's and if you work
with Sting, this guy is there. He's ever on time.
He's you know, he's early always, you know, and he's
always beat you there. So you know, and I lived
at my studio and he'll be there before I get up,

(01:28:48):
and I'm like, dude, come on, man, you know what
I mean. And so he'll be there, y'all that challenge. Yeah,
and he'd do it in the day, straight down and
he'll buy six seven o'clock, will stop. And that's how
we work every day. It was never a late night nothing.
By seven o'clock. We would probably go, you know, I'm

(01:29:08):
gonna meet him at the bar by eight or so.
By nineties like okay, I'm going to bed, you know
what I mean. That's always you well, have like a
glass of wine or something like that.

Speaker 5 (01:29:17):
How did you get your name.

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
Because you can't related.

Speaker 7 (01:29:26):
Your curl pattern is undefined.

Speaker 6 (01:29:29):
Let me tell you, let me tell you something I was.
I was skinny and I had a lot of hair,
and they call me shaggy dog, shaggy dog. And then
I was in England even like yeah, and then I
went to England and found out that Shagman something else. Yeah. Yeah.
I was like like that ship cool.

Speaker 7 (01:29:55):
You that was the whole world.

Speaker 6 (01:29:58):
Like I'm like, I'm like, oh, ship, that's that's what
it means. Almost the love of love.

Speaker 7 (01:30:04):
Shot a mirror. If this the wise sag, he not.
He's not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
We need the Rock roll Hall of Fame.

Speaker 4 (01:30:15):
We need the Kennedy Center Honors.

Speaker 6 (01:30:19):
Treasure was a treasure.

Speaker 9 (01:30:24):
So BOMBASTI I mean, just tell us about how your
life changes when you have a huge record.

Speaker 6 (01:30:32):
I signed I did on Carolina. It became number one
in the British chart. It was massive, like and it
was number one and almost so and Kim Berry signed me,
who was the co founder of Virgin. Kim Berry had
signed that record and I was in the bidding world
with Chris Blackwell and Kim Berry. Now I wanted to

(01:30:53):
go with Island Records because that's where all my reggae
eros were right and and and Susan Newman who was
Chris black was right hand and me got really really friendly.
She really loved me. She picked me from the airport.
She would rock with me all the time. So I
really wanted to be on that label. I was friend
with Apache Indian at that time. Him and I used
to hang out in London and he was on that label.

(01:31:15):
So I really wanted to be on that label. And
I was driving to go sign a deal memo and
my manager got a call from Ken Barry offering me
a million pounds at that time in nineteen ninety three,
which is on Earth, and I think Chris Blackwell was
offering me something like one hundred and fifty to two
hundred thousand pounds bullshit money. And I went there. I

(01:31:36):
was like, okay, can you match it? And Chris was like, well,
you know, it's a little bit too rich for me,
you know, I mean, I've never paid that much for
reguy artists. I'm not about to know he paid four
thousand dollars for the mark for the Morrow even finished up.
So I'm just I'm just letting you know. So, So

(01:31:56):
I went with Ken Burry because he gave me a
bit of offer, and then when it happened, Old Carolina happened.
You know, I did Boombastic, And when I did Boombastic,
it came out and debuted at number one. The first
day was out and it was the first time in
reggae or dance all history that any reggae dance or

(01:32:16):
record would debut on the British chart at number one.
And ken Berry called me and he says, Shaggy, congratulations,
you're number one. I'm like, what's number one? The song?
I said, we just put it out. He says, yes
to debuted at number one. He says, wow, he says,
and then he says, I wonder what Chris would be
thinking now. And I said, and I said, I said, well,
you know, Chris, you know he said, he you know,

(01:32:37):
he couldn't. It's reggae. It was going to make that
much funny, he says, funny should say that I made
my million back on Old Carolina. It was top five
in every country. This is just this is just the
book debuted at number one and it was the first
time in the history. And the crazy part about it.
When I was doing that record, I was in a
car drive in to the h CNF studio in Long

(01:32:59):
Island and I had the track on. I had the
track on a cassette and it was cassette back in
the days, and I'm playing it and all I could
do all like all like the only vibe the record,
the song gave, the beat gave me was just moaning.
I just kept moaning on the record. I moaned the
whole drive. I just whoa roa mm hmm loveall loveall

(01:33:25):
ro roa. And so when I got to the studio
and Sting International put it up on on on the tape,
you know, I just went around there.

Speaker 14 (01:33:34):
I just started moaning. Fun fustic Ron still looked at
me and said, yo, motherfuck. He got for some lyrics
and that ship.

Speaker 6 (01:33:51):
I like what you're saying, but you and it's a
smooth just like saw fun like talking. And those records
were all freestyle. I never wrote those records. I just
it was started from moaning, wait what.

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
Wait, the irony, the irony of you telling the story.
Because even in the story of Let's get it on.

Speaker 3 (01:34:18):
Yeah, and this is real, because.

Speaker 2 (01:34:23):
The version of Let's get it On that we know
was a freestyle because basically the moment he saw Jan
Hunter walk in the room.

Speaker 3 (01:34:34):
He was showing off and he freestyled.

Speaker 9 (01:34:38):
Yeah, the original Let's get It On. It was like
a political song.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
It was like like let's let's get organized, let's get
it on, right.

Speaker 6 (01:34:45):
Yeah, but crazy part. Crazy part I did those moaning
not on the on because the Marvin Gaye version that
you know of Let's Get It On that is on
Bombastic was a remix. Oh, so that there's an original
rich the original, which was big in every other country
except the United States.

Speaker 3 (01:35:04):
I should know this.

Speaker 6 (01:35:06):
The Marvin Gaye version that you know happens to be
only in North in America. That's it. In every country
in the world. The original is the hip record.

Speaker 2 (01:35:19):
So when you perform it, you do which version depending
on what America.

Speaker 6 (01:35:24):
Yes, in America, I use the Marvin gay Everywhere else
in the country I go to the original reggae version,
which is massive. Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
Well wait, since you told that story, then I need
to know. Did you ever find out what Virgin thought
once you went to to m c A with it.
It wasn't me because I'm almost certain that they said like, okay,
well we have one hit.

Speaker 6 (01:35:51):
So ken Berry, who is of course the head of
Virgin ended up moving on. There's the craziest thing. After that,
I got that record. I ended up doing Maxi Priest's
album at that time, and we did that Girl, which
was also a top five record, right and then and
then I put another record out and and it came
up the same day Princess Diana died, and they just

(01:36:13):
stopped playing records. They just played Candle in the Wind
on every radio station.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
You're right, You're right, and.

Speaker 6 (01:36:19):
And and so and so my record tanked and my
album tanked. And there's a guy that was the head
of the record company, Ken Barryott now moved on to
running you know, because he had success with Me and
Letty Kravitz and Janets, so he was a big wig now.
So they ended up running EMI, the Holy Emi, And

(01:36:39):
there was a guy called Paul Conroy who became the president,
and he just did not know what the fuck to
do with me. It's like his dance Alid and so
they dropped me, and they dropped me and Maxie and
signed the next dance all Sensation at the time, which
was being the.

Speaker 4 (01:36:54):
Man Wow OK, and same money.

Speaker 6 (01:37:01):
They dropped me, they signed Beanie Man and they were
trying to get it's out of it and out of
sitting there trying to did the Maya record. A couple
of those records was going Patrick Moxey who was the
father of He was at Payday. He ended up being
the head of the head of A and R at
that time and running Virgin that at that time and

(01:37:23):
the whole Janet thing and he put Beanie Man with
Janet Jackson all that ship. So it was so crazy
about that is in the time that was going on,
jam and Lewis decided to do a project for How
Stella Got her Groove back. Yeah, they did the soundtrack
and so I talked about that all right. Here the

(01:37:46):
crazy part now Terry McMillan, who actually the story was about,
who was the writer and she she did the story
autobiography about herself and her courting of this guy and
her He told Terry Lewis that you got to get
Shaggy on that soundtrack because me and my man used

(01:38:06):
to fuck to that boombastic record and Jamaica. That is
true fucking story. And that's how Terry Lewis came to
New York, found me and say Shaggy, I want to
play a track. And the track had oh boy, I
love you so and I just start when he started playing,

(01:38:27):
I was like, I hold him on a load to
make him oist and wet old him manoload to make
him own and sweat sweet suckle into five clean now.
And he's like, oh shit, oh ship, And I'm just
in awe because I'm in Jimmy jamming. Terry fucking Lewis like,
what the fuck. Then Terry is like, oh man, you ship,
ship ship, oh ship. He called Jimmy because Jimmy was there.

(01:38:49):
He called Jimmy's so, oh man, you need to hit
this ship. This fucking ship, he was like. And then
he started playing a bunch of records and it got
like Mary J. Blige and Casey and Georgia and Boys
to Bend and fucking Prince and all that. I was like,
oh ship, my record ain't gonna make it. Fuck that'sh it.
And just so it happened, they ended up putting the
soundtrack out because at that time, when the movie came out,

(01:39:10):
you put the soundtrack out without a saying, and you
put the soundtrack out and radio just out of just
started playing the track with me in Janet, but we
didn't have single rights that song, so he couldn't be
a side, couldn't. So we ended up shooting a video.
Eventually the record stop blowing up and I was just
going from station to station working it, and then we

(01:39:31):
ended up doing a video. But when I did a video,
now if you look at the video online, you'll see
that Angela Bassett and Whoopee Goldberg's or who was singing
the hook. Janet wasn't in it, yeah, because we couldn't
get her. We couldn't get it. They wouldn't And I
was a little reggae guy. She was a major, major
pop stars. They were in virgin Patrick Moxley wasn't going

(01:39:52):
to get it give her to me either at that
point because he had just dropped me. They drop and
Cige Beanie. Now I catched this fucking record and it
was like, I ain't giving you Janet that you meet
me look, and then doing a join.

Speaker 8 (01:40:07):
With Janet with the Neptunes exactly, which that sold a
little bit of them, so I don't right, I mean,
And then and and the Neptunes did that.

Speaker 6 (01:40:17):
Ship and they spent two million on video and old
Ship and My Ship became number one. And then right
after that, the next record that really popped up for me.

Speaker 3 (01:40:26):
Was was it wasn't me?

Speaker 6 (01:40:28):
And then I was off, Yeah it was off?

Speaker 5 (01:40:31):
Was that another kind of like freestyles? It wasn't me?

Speaker 6 (01:40:33):
It was that?

Speaker 5 (01:40:34):
What was that?

Speaker 6 (01:40:35):
It wasn't me? It wasn't me. I got from I
was watching Yeah, Eddie Murphy, I was watching Raw.

Speaker 5 (01:40:42):
Yeah, yeah, it wasn't me.

Speaker 6 (01:40:43):
Yeah yeah. And I saw that and I was was like, yo,
that's the song. And I just we just cultivated from Raw.
I saw Eddie and and Bahamas a total man because
we were we were back there. I was like, you know,
you know, I took that whole ship from it. And
he said, so, motherfucker, you owe me wrong.

Speaker 7 (01:40:58):
I knew he was.

Speaker 4 (01:41:02):
At this point, Shaggy, I know the answer to you
feeling like you're getting your flowers from America, I feel
like you, I don't know if I'm assuming that that's
like not as much, but I wanted to know how
do you feel about getting your flowers from the folks
at Jamaica, Like do you feel at this point that
they are you respected as a legend that you are?
And it felt like that while you do because if

(01:41:22):
you doing a Spice record, I felt like that was
a beautiful kind of wrap around like they respect you,
you respect them, or or is that just.

Speaker 6 (01:41:29):
As It's been a journey. It's been a journey from
me being starting at dancehall, then becoming pop and then
not having no respect at home to me doing a
song called church I literally got off gifting to do
dance All if you if you remember quest the record
called some of Them, some of them with with Olivier,

(01:41:52):
with Olivia I ended I ended up doing that record
even though the record company didn't want me to do
that record, because I wanted to do dance you know
what I'm saying, And I knew that I had to
get back into dance All to get the street back.
And then right after that, when it put it out,
it didn't do very well because they didn't know what
to do with it, and then they dropped me. And right
after they dropped me, I wrote Church Eden, which was

(01:42:15):
a massive nineteen weeks number one in the dance hall,
and then just overnight everybody in the streets started fucking
with me, and then the prime minister at the time,
Portia Simpson, was a woman. She was the first woman
running for prime minister, and she ended up using strength
of a Woman as her theme song, and every little

(01:42:37):
ghetto kid was singing that shit, and that became massive.
And then I ended up doing my charity concert, which
was Shaggy and Friends, where I raised money for the
Bustamande Hospital for Children, you know, and I had everybody
from Lauren Hill to fucking voice them into everybody. Sting
was the last person that did it, and I'd done that,
so it became a respectful thing after a while where

(01:42:58):
people be like, Okay, just do is the true to
I'm fucking with him? You know what I mean? And
that became that, and so it became that, and I
had the respect of Jamaica, but I didn't have the
respect of the industry. The industry was still like, Okay,
this guy isn't authentic. And that came in part with

(01:43:19):
Sting saying, you know, this guy is a genius or
as he would put it on interviews, which blew my
mind because I think of him as like a musical
genius god. But he would have these conversations like I've
never seen anybody write songs as fast as this guy
and does it and he doesn't play an instrument, and

(01:43:40):
it's always and it always freaked him out. He always says,
I don't understand how you're so melodic and don't play
you know, it's just it's all in your head. And
I'll sit around a mic and freestyle. Could we come
from that? And I'm spitting these melodies and shit like that,
and we go down the right learryside and be like okay.
So he would get that, So he validated me on

(01:44:00):
that level. This true validation comes now from the Spice record,
which I wrote, you know uh and got was a
shaggy record first, and I literally took it and flipped
it to the Spice and then we put Sean Ball
on it, and that became not just a massive record
on the global side of things, but it's all on

(01:44:21):
a big TikTok record, but it was the streets and
it was produced by me. It was good. And then
and then there were other things too, like for instance,
Cartel did slow Motion, which was a record was one
of his first big records, which which I produced and
put on my leg you know what I'm saying, and
and and and you know, because I went there and

(01:44:42):
took his voice and everything and got it, got it done.
And there's so many other reggae records, dance, all records
that I've done that were big that people didn't know
I wrote, but I wrote you know what I mean,
I'm talking hardcore ship like cheek.

Speaker 14 (01:44:55):
A Gallic you don't care remember me see and our
air probably amount of money.

Speaker 6 (01:45:01):
That all of these Shiit maxipriests whatever your eyes can see.
All of these records were records that were street records
that I either wrote or produced. And then so after
a while people just started to be like, Okay, yeah,
we're fucking with him.

Speaker 2 (01:45:18):
Well that was actually my question, like, is so thank you?
Is there anything that you have yet to achieve? Like
because I know, like you know, over tievers might necessarily
feel like there's one more itch.

Speaker 3 (01:45:32):
They got to scratch and that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:45:34):
And I know that even for us, like we've had
that same journey where you know, our audience who does
not look like us, embraces this ship out of us,
and you know, but we longed for our hometown, our
peoples to really embrace us, which I feel like, you know,
with this next project we're doing, we're going to get
that moment.

Speaker 3 (01:45:54):
But yeah, no, you answer the question.

Speaker 6 (01:45:57):
To me, would you? And I'm just going to get
this for you. When I remember sitting with your band
and I was, you know, I was talking I think
it was your trumpet player or something.

Speaker 15 (01:46:05):
I was talking to it and we're talking about just
how this gig, the late night game affected your whole ship.

Speaker 6 (01:46:16):
And he was like, Hey, it's a different thing. You know.
We got we got dental and medical.

Speaker 3 (01:46:24):
I got the best teeth in the business, bro.

Speaker 6 (01:46:26):
And it dawned on me at that point. I was like, Wow, Yeah,
that's that's some real ship you could and and what
you have done with the platform. You know, even when
I was so I think I saw you and just
was telling you how genuinely happy I was to see
you when the night even though it was really crowded
with that bullshit that happened. But you know, but you

(01:46:50):
I was just really because I kind of know your journey,
you know, you know, and and and I know even
some of it even to Scott, because when I was
in Miami with Scott and just kind of see how
the whole ship go and just know your journey being
on an MCA, and just to see what you have
done with the platform, you know what I mean, it
is it is just commendable and I just want to

(01:47:13):
take that time out to say thank you brother. You
know what I mean. I appreciate it has not gone
on unnoticed.

Speaker 3 (01:47:19):
Thank you, man, dude, this is this has been amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:47:23):
I'm not blowing smoking whatever like and I'm not even
trying trying to kick it like oh well, I little expectation. No,
but man, like you, I need to. I gotta tell
the world like you are. You're a historian, like right now,
history and misinformation is like for me, that's like almost

(01:47:45):
job one, like uncovering history, making sure that you know,
we we know our culture.

Speaker 7 (01:47:50):
And that findings findings exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:47:53):
So this this is a very important episode of course.
Love Suprema. I thank you for doing this for us.

Speaker 6 (01:47:58):
Man, thank you, thank you, and I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:01):
I want to be having sugar, Steve ye unpaid Bill.
It's quest Love, Quest Love Supreme. Another classic, under the Bus,
under the Hood and the Notch. I don't know, like
the proper clue. What should I say, Steve, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:48:16):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
Shaggy is a Christmas album.

Speaker 5 (01:48:18):
Merry Christmas, Shaggy.

Speaker 6 (01:48:22):
Yeah, It's a Christmas album of dancer because when we
were young, all week. All we got at Christmas was
that Bing Crosby the record Christmas record, and my grandmother
killed me with that ship. It was like, I'm like,
and ain't nothing Bing Crosby is singing. Ain't nothing was
looking like because I'm in Jamaica, there's no no you

(01:48:44):
know what I mean, There's no there's no Santa Claus
in the chimney, there's no none of that. It don't
look like my Christmas. So I wanted to do an
album that looked like how my Christmas Christmas, which was
ragging them up in christ with some Christmas in the
Islands and those songs that's on that record. And I
got from Neil to to Ding Dong to Julia Reid

(01:49:08):
to Bounty Killer, everybody on singing Bounty Killer beating him
at everybody shouldn't see. All of them is on this
record singing or versions of our dance off Christmas records,
Christmas songs. You know, I mean, it ain't Mariah carry ship,
but you know.

Speaker 7 (01:49:30):
It we can smoke to it.

Speaker 3 (01:49:36):
Brother, Thank thank you, man. I appreciate you for doing
this the salad and talking to.

Speaker 5 (01:49:40):
Us so much.

Speaker 6 (01:49:43):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:49:44):
All right, all right, well we'll see all the next
go around, of course, Love Supreme Brother Shaggy.

Speaker 1 (01:50:02):
What above Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.