Shaggy

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of What's Love Supreme.
Course Love Team Supreme is with man. Yeah, hello, hey man,

(00:20):
I'm doing I'm excited, I'm good to excited. Yeah. I
think I think we're allowed to say excited as the
person who is on every zoom pitch. I think everyone's excited.
It is the equivalent of Saint McBeth in the theater.
Not be on a zoom and say everyone's excited. It's

(00:44):
like that's the death knel. Not to apply it to
every zoom. This is this is specifically exciting, right, this
is not a business meeting. So yeah, you know, yeah,
uh Sugar, Steve whatever him mayor Hi Team Supreme, Hi Saggy,
how's every been doing? Yeah? Just give it away? Now,
give it away now, Steve, Let's edit that. Let's edit that.

(01:09):
Hey Steve, how you doing? Bro? Hey Shaggy FONTI a
little man. How's it going down there? Bro? Might man
finishing up my dinner? I want to be eating on camera,
you know, just let it go to a black screen.
I think Fonte should be like the neighbor on uh,

(01:31):
where we just see. I think the fact that we
were talking off camera before you got in kind of
got into the we never come about to talk before
he gets on camera. What are you talking about? No,
we didn't no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it
wasn't me. We weren't talking about anything other than the

(01:53):
fact that I was complimented where she lives. Um, you
like her background? No, no, no. He was shading the stake.
It's cool, we we get you. You're breaking the rude
to introduce Okay, funk it all right, Shaggy's on the show.

(02:13):
I mean, we're part of telling you. I mean, I'm
in the inglewood. But he wasn't really taking making fun
of that. He's making fun of the fact that I
live in California, which is has you know, has has
some ship with it, but he has a home in Florida.
So I told him he needs to step back. You're
not You're not a California person at all. No, it's
not that I'm not a California I'm just looking at it.
I said, there's only one box ticked. It's great weather.

(02:37):
You get up and you feel amazing, but if you
sit down and take the rest of boxes and I'm like,
you know, there's mud slides, fires like the act, there's
Karen Bass, there's gabbing. I'm like, don't even you know,
there's so there's so listing. But you know, we we
we we agreed to disagree. Yes, very true, very all right.

(03:00):
So technically speaking, I should do a proper introduction, so
I will say that I've we probably had a conversation
with every musician every walk of life, but I don't
think I've ever had an in depth conversation with anyone
um in the in the dance hall reggae world. I mean,

(03:23):
if you discount super Cats complaining that I wasn't good
on drums at the roots jamp, don't feel better, don't
feel bad. It complains about a lot of people, don't.
He cussed me out totally? Yeah. Yeah, someone told me
that it's actually a badge of honor if he if

(03:44):
he cuss it is, it is. It is. It is.
And I'm not cutting. But I'll tell you what. Super
Cat was one of the first person to give me
microphone when I was in Brooklyn back and Flatbush, back
in the days when I was a young guy, and
he would bring the microphone and give it to me.
Because everybody was fighting, you know, to spit on spit
on the mic, and he always, um, you gave me
so he could say anything about me. I'll take you

(04:07):
back because he was that guy. It's funny you say
that I really wanted to do this episode because I mean,
I've said it a few times before. But our guest today,
save the Roots. Yeah, I will say that if it
weren't for our guest today, none of this. I'm not
saying none of this would be possible, but I know

(04:30):
for a fact, very directly that the fruits and the
overflow with uh monetary nature of our guests and his
art form definitely came as an eleventh hour saving grace
slash life wrath. If you will uh for my band,

(04:50):
which you know, I will say to the end of
the time that Shaggy is all right with me. He's
done so many legendary things. I mean, he's so over
forty million units, has over eight hundred million streams. I mean,
he's collaborated with the best. I mean name it, from
Shaka Khan to Eve to Janet Jackson, Cardi b Maxy Priests,

(05:13):
Barrington Levy two to the May to Howls. Dude even
I mean, right now, the gold standards to get billions
of streams on TikTok. He's done that as well, like
you know, and right now we're here to celebrate his
new project. First of all, I mean you and Sting together.
That's uh, all right, we already gave it away at

(05:37):
the top of the show. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Shaggy. Yes, yes,
very much. Question you know what, you know what I
gotta you put a lot of a lot of weight
on my shoulder their quest because it's not the first
time I've heard you said that, and um, yeah, I'm
meaning to see you and talk to you about that.

(05:57):
You're putting a lot of that's a lot of weight
on my show, Minty. Basically, you know, I think with
the way that a successful record label can operate, I mean, yes,
everybody wants you know, a vast a vast array of
artists on their label and whatnot, but you know, the

(06:18):
label also needs like and earner. And you know it
wasn't me was so inescapable in that. Basically we were
kind of wondering where like we we spend a lot
of money on things for all apart and you know,

(06:39):
it's it's kind of like if you ever seen, uh,
what's the Adam Sandler's movie that I thought he should
have got nominated for Oscar? For oh, uncut Gims. The
industry is a lot like uncut Gims, where you gotta
rob Peter to pay Paul. So oftentimes, you know, I'll
read about my favorite records getting made and they'll say like, well,
we have to take some money from the Doobie Brothers

(07:00):
project to pay for this project. In our case, I
will say that a good portion of the promotion that
we have to do for things for all apart the
videos we had to do, the promotions, the ads we
have to take out, all those things definitely are and
R said, you guys better be lucky for a shaggy
success because this is how we're paying for your budget.

(07:22):
So you know, you know what it is to quest
it was it was a very strange climate. That whole
company was a strange climate, you know. It was you
really didn't have an urban department. We didn't in that company.
A lot of people need to know that it was
a very pop based and I was lucky to have

(07:43):
these records that started as none of those songs were singles.
Never picked as single, but they ended up becoming big
pop records and really saved me because when I came
in there, you know, there was no but I wasn't
the same space as the roots, you know, I was not.
I wasn't getting budgets either. It just so happened that

(08:05):
we had a song I was right at the minute
to be dropped. And then because the first two singles
came out with Dance and shout and oh, and they
flopped and and the DJ out of Hawaii started to play,
it wasn't me. After the fifth play, it just lit
up his phone and it just continued to spread. And
that's what saved my ass because I was about to

(08:27):
be on the chopping block, you know, just like just
like you guys, it was just what it was, And
they weren't planning to spend money because it was just
not a company that really was focused around marketing urban music.
I just it was just not that kind of a
climate in that company. It wasn't It wasn't that. And

(08:49):
did you ever skip the line and go right to pop? Right?
Because that was it felt like right it actually went
to pop and then came back to that. Yeah, it's
just It's just it was like it became popping then
you know that, But you know what, what is it?
The clubs was sucking with it so much that you know,
Urban ready to say, well, you know the club is doing,

(09:10):
we might as well play it. You know, we know that,
you know, we know the White Stations is playing it.
You know, but really and truly, never you get a
club they're saying, it wasn't me let me rock with it,
you know what I'm saying. And if you think about it,
Angel wasn't as lucky. Angel continued to stay popped and
didn't get back, didn't go back in it because it
was never a club joint, so it didn't really connect
like that, you know, while Bombasketball so from a previous

(09:33):
album that was also club and then ended up going
to pop and then Urban Urban started playing it again.
So it was just a strange climate at that time,
especially for Ricky who was that DJ, because that DJ
is also the one that the one in Hawaii is
also the one that broke in all my life for
Casey and Joe, Joe and Jo they have the same

(09:56):
situation where they were about to you know, that was
about to flop the then and that's and that's the thing,
like I don't think well, I mean, like you can
also explain it since like seven, there's one movie that
came out that sort of explained and how radio works
called Before the Music Dies, that came out like two
thousand and four. But you know seven, when I guess

(10:19):
what I can call the clear channel era of radio
comes into play, where now people have to pre program
the music like weeks weeks ahead of time. Now it's
blowing my mind because I'm like, pop pop DJs don't
break records, right, So the fact that this one did
and then broke these two black records that start go
back to black radio when black radio usually starts, it's blowing.

(10:40):
It's a mind blower. Yeah. Well, actually, let me ask
you because I mean, I know you haven't been on
terrestrial radio for a minute, but just during the time
period when you were on radio, like how far advanced,
Like when do they actually start feeding the machine and
saying like, okay, we're gonna play this be At song

(11:01):
fourteen times a day and they picked this specific time
like they do playlist. Yeah, when does that programming start?
I mean, you know, it's a process. It's also like
record reps coming to the station from that was a
big thing. You know, when it comes to y'all being
represented in a way, right, it's like what the record
repord is selling, what's their priority? And then once it's
the priority, depending on the artist, sometimes since it's a

(11:24):
priority and it's an artist and maybe the label, you know,
it's all kind of dynamics. But it's never it's never.
Shaggy has always been different in that way because it's
never been pop breaking records and just naturally that happening.
That's a natural thing, and that doesn't happen. I think
a lot of it boils down to the demographic you

(11:45):
know what I mean when you look at at that time,
they're gonna look at what urban music is selling, you know,
and then they're gonna look at what reggae is. Now.
There's a big argument now where you say that reggae
is you know, less than five percent of the global
market share. You know, so you can't expect any major
company or any company to be putting major money into

(12:07):
any act that is less than five percent of the
market share. My argument to that is, when has it
ever not been less than five percent? You know? When
I when I was selling forty million records. I it
was three you know after me, then you had Sewan
Fall and everybody. It became popular. Before then, it was
never on radio. Was the guy that got it on radio.

(12:30):
So it was always less than five percent, you know
what I mean, nothing has ever changed on that. And
these record companies they invest based on that. So it's
not good. It's you know, so when when I'm doing
these numbers and they're like, oh, ship, we didn't know
that could happen, and so they ended up chasing. Now
you sell tend million records, you would think they're gonna

(12:50):
be like, well, you know, he just did it. Let's
try and listen vest again and do that. They're looking
at it like, yeah, that ain't never it. They cann
think of it as that. Now where we are now today,
you're seeing other genres as sort of with the DNA
of dance hall reggae, Like I know that African music, okay,

(13:15):
so I have to call West African. I mean, I'm
just saying you a lot of it is from now.
We don't get into afro beat versus afro beats, and
I want no parts of that. But what I'm basically
asking is like between reggae tone and West African music
and now with dance hall, are you finding it now?

(13:37):
Are people generally trying to lump like an entire genre
of non Americanized rap, non americanized pop into this uh
mold that you now have to fit into Ino where say,
you know, the average Joe from Kansas might not know

(13:57):
the difference between the music that you're doing and the
music that Jay Balan was doing. In the music that
Badny Yeah yeah, or bad Bunny or or you know
or whoever is what's so crazy? Is there? You know
there's a history of Yes, you know that. Yankee called
me sometime last year and asked me because there was

(14:17):
a documentary shot supposed to be on Netflix that really
talks about Gaton. He couldn't tell the story of Regaton
because he wasn't there. It was before him. But he
knew that he knew that, I know, you know what
I mean? So I and and and the starting of
Relegaton started by a guy by the name of El

(14:37):
Gringo out out from Puerto Rico, out of Brooklyn and
L and L Gringo. He went to prison and then
there and then El Hannao right ended up doing dance
all records in Spanish right, which was put out on VP.

(14:58):
And there was a guy, Harl Miller, who literally was
the guy that was producing these songs for VP Records.
An Ro ended up blowing up. Now, the crazy part
about it is el Anna and I went to Erasmus
Hall in Brooklyn and we would be in the lunch room,
and the lunch room had the Puerto Rican click, the

(15:21):
Panamanian click, the Jamaican click, you know what I mean,
the Haitian click, and we would be on the book
benches and we will beat and spit free styles and
people get around right exactly, and Eleanora would be over
there doing the same thing in Spanish. Out of there
and so him and not. That's how we became friends

(15:42):
because I used to spit it on the bench and
over there, and then he started to make these dance
all these own chaperones record. Now the beat all they
get one is called dem bo. You should you know
that quest right? So it's called yes, it comes from

(16:03):
it comes it comes from chavarank stemba. Now eleanor al
and then used to do these reggae records, these dance
on records over in Spanish and that became Spanish reggae.
Carl at VP ended up calling it reggae tone and
through mispronunciation over there became don't look it the guitar.

(16:24):
That is the beginning of what is reggae top which
started out of that see our faces right now to
uh like Tago Calderon and those guys. Was that it
was after Tega was after this. There was a guy
up out of the Browns called Gungi Rivera who used
to have these big nightclubs and he was the one

(16:45):
that used to promote a lot of these Spanish reggae acts,
right that used to be uptown around that time. Was
a was a major force in the development of it,
you know what I mean? And that was what it is.
Are you when this documentary? Yeah, they called me to
tell the story because you know, in fairness to a

(17:05):
lot of these new acts, they don't know that story.
So you literally were there to witness like the incubation. Yeah,
I was there to the whole thing. I was part
of the whole thing. This is where I'm starting. This
is why I'm excited saying he's a national treasure. Why
doesn't the world know this? Nobody asked, but it is documented.

(17:27):
I can tell you it is true. Now, say, for instance,
when we did Afrobeat. Now let's go to the Africa,
West Africa, as you would say, Um, I used to
go to Uganda, Kenya, tans in all these places and
I would play stadiums because the main music of of
those country was dance all. It was not Zook or

(17:53):
or you. He wasn't here in Fella Cote or any
of these guys. It was dance all in the streets
and the clubs of Nigeria or any any of these places.
It's dance all. And so we would go. I would
go there, play stadiums and a lot of these artists
would would open for us. You know, you're talking a
lot of these artists. You see a big art AFROBA

(18:14):
artists opens on a lot of shows firs down there.
You know what I mean. We could go back even
further when you look at you know there's a lot
of opening You're talking about the Spice Girl open for
Shaggy and Instic you know, I mean, you know, I
mean uh in Sync. We used to do road shows
in Europe at that time when they opened for us.

(18:35):
So it's it's been center Ana. It's been a whole
journey of of how that that would be going, because
I've been doing for thirty odd years, you know, of
of doing that. So in the Afro beat, if you listened,
it is really influenced by a dance all right, even

(18:55):
though they have developed their own sound, right, but but
it was really kind of influence from that. What is
what is the correlation or the just the relationship between
like dancehall and also what is called lover's rock, Like
I guess the so love's rock Okay. So if you
look at what Jamaican music started from, started from a

(19:16):
beat called mental Mental into ska Scott into what's known
as rock steady exactly. And it's really about the shuffle
that makes it go chack chick chickick, and then there
you go reggae chick chick. It's a different vibe of

(19:36):
how it's done. It's really about the tempo and the
feel of it that moves it from a ska to
a rock steady. And rock steady is out of rock
steady came what is known as lovers rock. What loves
rocket is it's that one drop reggae and people sing
these beautiful love songs and white became Love's rock is
because they used to do a lot of covers, Like

(19:56):
a lot of these big reggae songs were covered tape.
For instance, you look at Let's Just Go, Let's Just Go,
even one of the biggest all right, and these are
white boys, and it blew up because the white but
it also blew up because they were just great covers.
Red Red Wine by U B forty was originally Neil

(20:17):
Diamond that red but they did it over in reggae
and it became now Neil Diamond. When he singing, he
does a regular version, right, you better? Yeah, knowledge, I
didn't even know that was a cover. I didn't know
that sounds like I can't help falling in love? Right

(20:39):
was Elvis Presley, but was done by UB forty. Then
then you have the other flip side of it, you know,
like girls just want to have fun. Cindy Lawpool was
the basic common base was done by Slide Robbie to
the biggest you know what I mean. So there's there's
a lot Jimmy time out. You're telling me that Slide

(21:02):
Robbie are the rhythm section there. There were session musicians
in in in uh in America, I know that, but
I could have thought Philly's on the Hooters. Why know
they wrote it, but I didn't know. But the drummond
bass of it, the groove of that was That's why, Cindy.

(21:22):
But you might have to join question supreme and then
and then even with with with songs like of course
you know Steve Wonder wrote a lot of of of
a couple of songs for the Third World also yes
love and uh right yes yes, and a lot of
people think that now that we find loved, which was

(21:44):
done by a heavy d which was also made popular
by a Third world. But the original, the original was
the old Jades, Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. So
so it's it's when you think of the blend of
music of how stuff is and even those early Grace
Jones records which were which were slide Robbie's Yeah, I

(22:08):
mean compass point when Guthrie. So you look at the
building of Island Records and what it is was reggae bass.
You look at somebody like Chris Blackwell who founded to
and YouTube was a it was a YouTube was a
folk band when he discovered those guys and he transformed

(22:30):
them into a rock bat you know. It was kind
of a Christian style folk band. Wait, you're dropping so
many bombs right now, just to make sure, you said
Gwen Guthrie. So you're saying, ain't nothing going on? But
the rent is also yes, yes, that makes total sense. Man.
Yeah yeah, okay, Wait, I get more education, but I

(22:53):
gotta know your your life. Yeah yeah. What was your
very first musical memory? My first music of memory was
my grandmother used to play. We were from a poor
neighborhood in Kingston, Raytown and from a place called um

(23:14):
with small fishing village in Raytown where I was on
Charlotte Street. We lived in one room. My grandmother used
to play a lot of radio because we didn't have television,
and I, as a katie, you used to think that
the guy was in the radio singing. I had no
idea that was records. I used to listen to these

(23:34):
really wonderful records. But I remember writing my own song,
and it's called your Mind, my very first song. I
was probably outstay around eight nine years old or some
ship as You're a mind, You're a mind, You're a mind,
your mind, You're really really mine? And my love come,

(23:56):
I love is ever last, and You're free a lot
of view and flower you a lot of my life
every hour and as long as I can't remember the
lurriss after that. But that was my first thing I
ever written, just in my head by listening to the radio.
So the radio was a comfort for me where music
was concerned, and I just really listened to all of

(24:20):
those songs, and there was songs like Mahalia Jackson was
a big thing in my house, even early songs like
if I know, if you know, for you guys familiar
with Toots in the Maytous, you know, yeah, exactly, yeah,
a big Toots fan. My grandmother was, you know. I mean,
so a lot of these records. Bing Crosby was a

(24:43):
big thing. That King Cole was a big thing in
my in my household. So on Sundays in Jamaica, it
goes that type of music goes well with chicken and
rice and peace, which is when we were doing these
Sinata records, these Sinatra records, you know, we're repertoires that
I too, and we're growing up on Sundays. Because reggae

(25:04):
in Jamaica didn't start playing too they I would say
probably around the eighties somebody told me that in Jamaica,
that's the first big superstar in Jamaica. Was like Bob
Marley for real? Like they were like, for real, that's
like large largest, Well he's the large Yeah, he's the
he's the largest one. But there were people like, for instance,

(25:27):
reggae music was looked down on. It was I was
gonna ask, how how does that work with? Okay, every American,
every American that I know is super super conservative m
and you know, I always wanted to know, how did

(25:48):
Jamaican natives that are like the parents of my Jamaican
friends who are strictly Christian, don't like you know, uh,
secular music and all that stuff. How does that mention
with the culture of like Bob Marley and like, was
that the gangster rap of the time? Any Jamaican you

(26:10):
know that is in that kind of it ty tity
for the lack of a better word, kind of a person.
There were uptowners. So there's two things. There's downtown and
there's uptown. The uptown are the more privileged class of people,
you know what I'm saying. There's a crazy story that

(26:30):
Bob Marley lived on a street called Hope Road, where
is where Tough Gong is. Back in the days, that's
the same street that the King's houses, which is where
the Queen's resident is, that's where that's the same that's
the same street that the that the Prime Minister's residences are.
You know what I mean when you look when you

(26:50):
look at it, that house that Bob Marley lived in
fifty six Hope Road was actually purchased by Chris Blackwell,
which was a white Jamaican that lived around the Warner
at a place called Terra Nova that is now a hotel,
which was his original home. So it took it took
a British, well, a Jamaica white guy to actually buy

(27:11):
that because there's a rast affair, and Bob wouldn't have
been able to purchase that because it was because it
was what's known as classes and in Jamaica back in
them days, so that when you look at Yellow Man
and these guys, those guys, at one point in Jamaica,
if you were a certain color, you couldn't come past
the half a tree clock because that's how it was

(27:36):
because you ain't from that class. After a shortain hour
you're not up there. This is this is years because
to be from that class you had to be lighter
and more affiliated with exactly. So for me, I'm from
the British rule. It's just it's just if you're talking
about colonialism, yeah, you know from that that's inherited down,

(27:58):
you know what I'm saying. So as goals, you see
people coming into all of this where you see uptowners
now started to do dance all. You know what I'm saying.
Like like take for instance, like a Sean Paul Is,
he's from the uptown. Juna Gone is from the uptown
because those guys are from parents that you know, when

(28:18):
Bob Barley made money, he went the whole pro that's uptown.
Unag a guy like Juna Gone would go to you know,
a good school and goes to while another set of
people now they're from the streets of the streets, the
hood of the hood, your top will steeview garden deep
on the gardens, your top, the hood, the hood, the hood,
you know what I'm saying. But after a while, it's
kind of became one when when when the uptown kids

(28:40):
started to do it, then it started to become accepted.
You mentioned yellow Man earlier, and I've read, uh something
like stuff about him just about how some of the
struggles he faced, like being because he was albino, and
like he was a bino. The crazy thing about yellow
Man He's is here is an albino guy. That's a
guy that made me want to get into music. That's right,

(29:04):
because I saw I went to a dance at skate Land,
which is a popular venue, and he spit his lyrics
and walked out. Yeah, well some other job I think
was eyes getting married. He had all the big records
at that time, walked in, spit his lyric, who walk
out and the whole dance walked out with him. I
was like, damn, I want to be that guy. But

(29:26):
but the crazy thing that he was an albino you
know I mean, which is also looked down at in Jamaica.
You know, he was like they called him and he
was at a place called poor Hopes at the time,
which is kind of an orphanage in a way that
he came right and he rose out of that to
become one of the superstar And now I always say

(29:46):
to shift culture, it takes a superstar that means a
star with superhero like talent, charisma, work, ethic, charm right
to shift talent because if you look at Yellow Man,
he didn't have a movement behind him, but the world
stopping took notice because he was a superstar, a star

(30:08):
with superhero like talent shaper ranks. He walked in the room.
You want to know who the fund is that that's
a superstar. You got stars, and stars are okay promote culture,
but are they gonna shift culture? You know what I'm saying.
And those are the guys that shift culture with superhero
like talent right where they don't need lights and they

(30:29):
don't need cranes throwing them out. They don't even need
a record company spending money. They just got that ship
that sway they walk in and they open them to everybody,
be like, who the fuck is that? That motherfucker is
the ship? That's what those guys are. Those are that's
the stars. And you have people who knew how to
find those. If you look at say you look at everybody,

(30:49):
say you look at all the billionaires. Now you look
at and question, you can understand this. You got Kanye
and then you got no, no, but you could understand
You're gonna understand what I'm saying playing with you, So
you got you got Kanye and you got Rhanna. Both
of them are billionaires or whatever. Right, who is their lego? Jay? Right? Right?

(31:10):
And you look at you look at Nicki, and you
look at Drake. Who is their lego? Okay? You look
at fifty, You look at eminem you look you look
at um uh snoop, who is this lego? Drake? You
look at Alicia Keys. Alicia Key is arguably one of
the greatest you know, songwriter, singer songwriter. But let's let's

(31:31):
face it. She got Clive Davis her first she had
She didn't have to have a worry like me and
you was where we gotta sit down and worry about
whether we got budgets. So we got marketing and she
got all of that live major shotow on that and
guess what her first interview was, Oprah. And if you
think about it, now, who's our lego? Rick guys? And

(31:56):
they have leg Ricky guys and they have the lego
you know what I'm saying. So and I'm not against
the lego. I'm for it, you know what I'm saying.
But in our culture, they have not been those opportunities
a lot. Well, you're giving the layout, you're giving it now.
So that's all I do. If you look at the
if you look at the pattern of things that I do.
I did Uh Summertime with an unknown artist named Rayvon Right.

(32:21):
I did It Wasn't Me with an unknown artist named
Rick Raw. I did Angel with an unknown artist named Ravon.
I did I Need Your Love with two unknown artists
named Mahambi and Fadie. I did Banana with another which
is the billion dollar the two billions stream on TikTok
with an unknown artist named named Conqueror. And then I
just did Spice at a hundred and fifty billion streams

(32:42):
with So I always look for that. Yeah, I look
for those records, those artists that have that thing, and
I go and I put that that in there, and
I make those type of records because I'm not privileged
to have budgets and rollouts, you know what I'm saying.
So I just do what I can. This is already

(33:02):
one of the half hour and it's probably one of
the greatest educations that I've had from a person that's
watched the Herder. They fall like a billion times, is okay.
So if if you are trying to establish yourself and

(33:22):
not go to to America, there's a difference between. You know,
half of the hip hop world came from Jamaica, but
they had to come to New York first too to shine.
But if you're in Jamaica and you want to get
put on, what is the route? Like? What's can you
walk me through? Now? I know it's different now because

(33:45):
of like digital colonialism, like you do one viral thing
on YouTube and then maybe make it. But say, okay,
in the eighties, if you want to get put on,
how does what what's the what's the maze? The sort
of circuit journey? Yes, well to me, I'm glad you

(34:06):
said now and then, because it's totally different now than
what it was then. You know, back then it was
highly it was highly dependent on the sound system. So
the sound system was where you would go and freestyle.
This is where we're a supercat. These guys come from.
So you have the Killer Maanjar or you have King Tubby's,

(34:27):
you have Johnny sound System, you have all these sound systems.
Those sound systems were what the ghetto kids could get
on and spit. So they'll have these street dances and
on these street dances, if anybody, if you were good
in the neighborhood and you and you spitting on the
streets and people are hearing you. You create your little
fan base and it once the community know, you get

(34:49):
on that mic and you get hurt, you know what
I mean. They used to have a thing called the
Tasties Talent Contest, which was also a big way for
people to get um discovered back in Jamaica back in
the Earth days, you know what I mean. So the
sound system was where it was because I even started
started on the sound system out of Brooklyn too at
the same time. That's how I ended up on Gibraltar
sound System and created my bus within Brooklyn where I

(35:12):
was at you know, Starlight ball Room, built board ball Room,
all of that at that time, and created my own
little buzz and my own little name when I started
doing big up at Mompey and all those records, you
know what I'm saying. But I started on sound systems,
so that was it. Nowadays they got this. You know,
you don't need to like these kids artists. Now they'll

(35:34):
do work like you know, like you when you were
promoting the roots. I'm sure you traveled all over the
world and did regional radio and ship like that. You
know what I'm saying. They don't do that. Now they
do a click of the button and say hey they
goes promo. But it's a different challenge. I mean, they don't,
we don't do like the radio and stuff. But it
is you can press that click of a button. But

(35:55):
the bottleneck is now everyone can press that button. So
now you're fighting for of the attention even if you
don't you know, have the budgets or whatever, the tallenge
attention or the talent, right, you're just fighting for the
attention because everyone but you see, I disagree in some
in one sense, I agree that there's a lot of them,
but if you're a true talent, you could get through

(36:17):
because if you look at it, there's a lot of bullshit.
You know what I'm saying. If you if you one
of those guys that I'm saying, you say that when
you walk and you ain't gotta get your ship and
be like who the fund is that you're gonna know? You?
You know, it's just because it's like when you saw
a coffee did that freestyle and everybody looked up. When

(36:38):
she was on BBC one Extra and she did that freestyle.
Aside chronics and You're like, who the funk is that?
You know what I mean? You're curiosity is jump and
she all she did was one preestop. She do nothing crazy,
but it was just so special. You want to know
who the hell that was? And and so nobody You
will get through the clutter if you're that good and

(37:01):
you have to be you just gotta be that. I
always tell the artists, I said, you want to cut
you to clutter, You gotta perfect your craft? What does
that entail in terms of reggae culture? Like I know
in hip hop culture? You know, the very beginning to
reach spent a lot of time in dictionary learning words

(37:23):
he never knew before. You know, constantly like what's what's
impressive for a dancehall artist? Two? Is it melodic delivery?
Is it words? Is it the rhythm that he happens
to be rhyming over? Like what it's really what you
bring to that you just said he started the dictionary.
That was what he brought to the table that was

(37:44):
different from everybody else. It's really what you're bringing to
the table, like to to set you apart, because everybody
could sit there and say they're gonna spit lyrics. But
what is that that specialised style that you're gonna bring
that's gonna set you apart? For me, yeah, I was lyrical,
but I also had this voice. Yeah ba a long
time Bombustard rom On to Yeah do that ship? Just

(38:07):
set me? Then apart? That was where that was recognizable.
Wait stop, wait, how did you develop that boy voice?
I was in the military. I used to run and
sing cadences. This is the story I was waiting for. Okay, yeah,

(38:30):
I used to run the scene and say, I don't know,
but I've been told CEO panish. I used to see
because the drill instructors will talk to you like that
boy drop and give a toilet board. You know, they
put that voice, and so I used to mock them
as as as a joke because it made me. Voice

(38:52):
came from I swear man, wait till I tell Higgins this,
Steve Yeah. And then and then the crazy part is
I ended up singing. I ended up doing Old Carolina
in that voice, because it's all right. If you ever
listened to that song called big Up, Big Up, Big Up,

(39:13):
Big Up, big Up, noticed, noticed that's a that's a
different tone of voice than the Old Carolina. Even if
I tell you about many Yeah, put down and out
of big up right. That Rickett is a different tone
of voice, you know. And then I went ahead and
did that. Yeah, I didn't already fell on the floor

(39:33):
before y'all even got on the line. I'm just trying
to I'm I'm blocking me. I my mind. He's talking
about it. It comes from a Southern He took a
Southern a mirror, you took a Southern dialect, like like
a drill sergeant. Yeah. Well, the more you know, and

(39:54):
just kind of worked that worked with that. So when
when did you move to the United States? I would
I came to you? Oh okay, Oh so you came
to these states specifically to go to the army. No.
I came to the States. My mom was a journalist
in Jamaica, the main um newspaper here called the Gleaner,

(40:17):
the Daily Gleaner, and my mother she migrated to the
States and I'm being I'm an only child, so I
ended up coming to America where her years afterwards, when
I was living with my grandmother in Jamaica and in
I came up and it was a culture shock. I
lived at On in New York Avenue between Tilden and

(40:37):
Beverley in the building called the Irma, I can't remember it,
and I went to Erasmus Paul and I just kind
of it was a shop culture shot because I'm seeing snow,
and I think what shocked me the most was that
people did their laundries and laundry mats because I couldn't.
I couldn't because we did it in our backyard and

(40:58):
the Yeah, And I couldn't believe that people would let
people touch their drawers like they would full drawers and
ship that I was. I was embarrassed when I went
to the launderback with my mother because people were seeing
my drawers. I was like, I couldn't believe that. I
was just I was just raised different. It was like,

(41:21):
you're gonna just You're gonna just fold your drawers in
front of everybody like that with the buck. Yeah. So
to me, it was like that. So it was a
it was a big culture shot, but it was also
a melting pot because I didn't know there were Haitians
and I didn't know they were Trinidan audiens. I didn't
know that there were Panamanians. I didn't know. I just
knew Jamaica. And then I started to figure out different

(41:42):
people's cultures and realized that they all were similar and
that you know a lot of them really embodied dance
all at reggae, and I was a kid that really
soaked all of that up. How did witnessing American hip
hop affect you when you got here? I went to

(42:03):
Erasmus that had a lot of like special letter was there.
I had a lot of rappers that came out of
that school. So hip hop was it was a beat
box era, so it's you know, um Slick Rick was Jamaican,
you know, uh, Douggy Fresh was. It was that whole vibe.
So that's the the all that ship. It was things

(42:25):
that I was like, you know, so that even when
you guys had Rozel, you know that I was a
big fan of Housel because you know, he did that ship,
you know. I mean I think I think when when
Houston died, we were at the same day house of
that and that's when that we did a little freestyle
thing Rozel at that time. So I was into hip

(42:46):
hop from that point of course. Then I ended up
knowing Cool Herd down the line and and realized how
the whole thing come. But so wait, White High School
what high school was this Erasmus Hall. It's the second
high oldest high school in the United States. It's actually
the high school that Clyde David started their Arista out
of and where Barbara's Tristan graduated from. A lot of

(43:08):
huge change superstars named there. It's in the heart of Flatbush.
It's right on Flatbush Avenue in Church, you know what
I'm saying. And that's where it's in Brooklyn. That's where
I was, I was at and the whole vibe, you know,
it is just where this this whole energy came from.
You came here in five so I guess you were yeah, ye,

(43:33):
all right, So what were your by that point? What
were your life goals in terms of I wanted to
be popular because because my my my mother dressed me funny,
you know's yeah, that's old school Jamaican woman that you know.
She she would give me her jacket, you know, and
she got pink in it and light blue and shared

(43:55):
and you know the funk. I know, you know, she
poured I'm going to school, you know, I wonder why
nobody is, you know, is being friends with me, you know,
except the Haitian kids that he drest worse than me.
So so. But after a while I had. Once I
started doing was spitting lyrics. I became popular and I

(44:16):
realized that if I I started to talking, I see
a little cutie, I talked about her hair, you know,
you know, or bamboo hair bearings, and you know, I
had to talk about her boots and her sheepskinting jacket,
and you know, I talked about all of that and
spitting the rhyme. I get a number and I realized,
oh shit, I get chicks like this and I didn't music.

(44:40):
I wish I could say something deeper than that, but
it's really pussy like um. I got into music because
I wanted to get laid. You know, I realized, I think,
you know, I realized that I spit lyrics. I was
a ghetto superstar. I got these locally hits. I did
into clubs of free, I drink for free, and I

(45:02):
walked out with the hottest chick and I was in heaven.
I was like, this is what I want to do.
So for me, you know, I love what yellow Man
did and I was fascinated by that. But when I
was in Brooklyn, there was no real outlet for dancing,
so my mother was like, you need to go do
something with yourself. And so I started to sell drugs,

(45:22):
you know. I started to sell weed. You know, I
was on clarks On nostrom, you know what I mean.
And then at a spot down the Gates Avenue. So
you got into weed and coke and started, you know, hustling.
That's what. That's what because every Jamaican I know, all
my uncles, they're all hustler. So us, especially in New York,
they had a good weed all the Jamaican. Yeah, until
after a while, mother start getting locked started getting locked up,

(45:45):
and you'd be like, Okay, I gotta get out of
this ship, you know. And so and so I went
into the military. That's how I ended up in the
Middle to I walked down the Flatwish Avenue at the
junction and walked in and looked at all the uniforms
and looked at the Marines and say, yeah, I could
get some chicks in that, get laid in that I want.
It's the hardest one, the hardest. I didn't know. I

(46:09):
just the uniform look the best though, because it's really
because really, if you think about it, who wants to
be in the in the Navy. They were were bell
bottom broke the bell. Butto you know's got that little
thing that looked like a blouse right now. So for me,

(46:31):
the Mariees just looked like that, you know, that that dress,
blue ship and that yo bro. I was like, yo,
that ship, I want to do that. And then this
guy called Perez, uh, sergeant Perez, I remember his name,
that come in and it's like, yo, you know, use
my recruiter. Yeah, I want to get out of everybody
next week. I was like, I can't get you off this.
We get you two weeks from now. I was like,

(46:52):
if I ain't going out next week, I ain't going.
And he, you know, kind of worked some things. I
ended up going in two weeks after that. And so
wait where did you go? And then when did you
realized that you was in the Marines? And that was different.
I didn't know I was in the Marines because I
passed all the tests and I went to North Carolina
on the bus h Campbell Joe, Yeah, June stepped out

(47:13):
on him yellow footprints and they just started screaming, steaming
in my face. North Carolina. Yeah. So I would set
up on the yellow footprints and they just started screaming
at me and pick your chew into back ho and
it was you know, so I chucked him because I'm
I'm from Brooklyn. I was like, yo, quote, I'm of
his and I see like six of them come down
and me, I was like, okay, that's a bad idea.

(47:37):
As a teenager, were you super rebellious? Like what is
it to be in the American Army? Like in terms
of like do you realize like, Okay, this is something
that has a lot of discipline and we gotta wake
up five in the morning to a bunch of at
least this is what I see on television. But being

(47:58):
an only child, uh, a very strict mother, I was.
I was very good. Like I would come Yeah, I
would come home from school and I'd be the only
person I knew where the key was on the onder
the map. I'd go in and make myself a sandwich.
I do my homework because my mom moved with ass.
It wasn't you know my my mom would send you

(48:20):
for the ship to whoop your ass. You know, you'd
be like, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I go
go get the ship, you know what I mean. So
and it and the beatings was not it was you know,
there was the legendary or asked whoopen? You know? So
I was raised on that. So for me would come
into America, I was always very disciplined and on it.

(48:41):
I really didn't get into too many trouble. But I
also like nice things and I wanted to be fly
and I wanted to be you know what I mean.
So if if I worked at Basking Robbins for one day,
you know, I add a little apron on a little
thing and the chick there was a hot quarto Rican
chick came and and she wanted you know, started asks,

(49:03):
just scooping her ice cream. Just didn't look cool. I
was like, this ain't me yo. I was out. How
far did you get? And you really your hands registered
as weapons? I don't know my hands are registered as
a weapon. But I was in the first golf for

(49:26):
seven months. There's a storm yet bad much respects. Thank you.
I did four years, but I didn't come out. It's funny.
I didn't come out as a muddle marine. I came
out one above a private. I got demoted twice. Wait demoted, Yeah,
how get for a wall? Because I would I would

(49:50):
drive from North Carolina to New York every weekend, and
you're not supposed to go outside of a fifty mile radios.
And I would drive. I did Old Carolina and big
Up in my uniform on a weekend and went back
in on Soup c Circle uh at forty second Street.
They had to think called super circles where you jump

(50:11):
into the van and they take you back. And so
I did those records in my uniform, you know what
I mean. And I would drive, and if I drive,
I drive down in my uniform, so that most of
the State troopers were ex military, so they stopped you.
They'd be like, okay, slow down, Marine and let you go.
So I would always drive in my uniform, and I'd
come to and link up with Sting International, who was

(50:34):
a DJ out of Brooklyn at the time, and you know,
it was my early producer, and we would make records.
And I go right back into my early records, like
Mom did those songs when it happened. I was in
the military. I didn't even know they were hot, and
they were just hot. And where those records put out
on a label or how did the business work? Yeah,
it was a little, There was a little. There was
a guy called Ben Sokologue. His brother was Will Sockolog,

(50:56):
Will Socolo had Little soccoloved the Sleeping Bag label. What
I'm saying, yeah, so so so I did a record
called Gunshot, which was a big record that was blowing
up on Sleeping Jazzy. Jeff would know about that record
because he loved that. Yeah right, and that was on

(51:18):
Sleeping Bag and Ben soft Colad was his brother that
had his label calls Signet, And then I would put
all of those early records like Big Up and mom Pa.
All those records came out eating Old Carolina came out
initially on Signet. Yeah, but then he tried, he tried
some when I got I got signed for a million
dollars in the biggest amount in the history of dance,

(51:41):
all the reggae at that time. And then he was
trying to you know, he was trying to do the
E G E B G B on me, you know,
and we had we had to cut that nigga loose.
We had to cut boy and loose. I always wanted
to know this because I don't I don't know if
I know an musician that served in any of the

(52:03):
Bullish One era wars, but when they're going to send
you guys to Kuwait, what's going through your mind? Because
you know, before that period, all we knew was Vietnam,
and I think that America had this whole like never again,
like we'll never get into another war ever again in
this lifetime. And then like I remember, like when they

(52:27):
may be announcement, especially ninety one, that yeah, we're gonna
go to war. You know that that that was like
a I mean, now, a tragedy happens and then it's
just like drop something, you know, But you know back
then it was like, yo, going to war, what's gonna happen?
So like in your mind, what were your thoughts? My

(52:49):
thoughts at that point was to hate the dude that
actually convinced me to go into military. The guy called
Mark I forgot his last name. He was my boy,
was like, oh yeah, in the military. And then when
I when I signed up, he had tried to send
a letter to me saying, don't come into this ship.
Don't come into this ship. Already I was already done.
I was like that asshole. Here I am. People do

(53:11):
twenty years in the military and they get a paycheck
for the rest of their life. I do four years
and I'm in a fucking war. What like, what are
the odds? And that's what was going through my mind
as far as my life is concerned. It really gave
me an opportunity to be thankful or take a lot
of things, not take a lot of things for granted.

(53:34):
Like I used to take my mom's cooking for granted
because I always think that I'm going to go to
my next door neighbor was his mom could better? You
know what I'm saying, or whatever it is, And and
I would get up out of my bed and not
not make it. When I was in the war, I
was sleeping on a cop you know, are sleeping bag

(53:54):
or and and then I was eating Mr Ease, Yeah,
and and then and I never meal was ready to eat.
It's it's like, yeah, premium process process military food. And
then I would I would have to dig a hole
to take a dump. And it's so much ship that

(54:16):
hit you. Then you realize that, oh ship, you had
a lot of things good that you didn't realize. So
when I got out the military, I was a changed
person in so many ways because I realized what not
to take for granted. You know what I'm saying there's
a lot of things that related. So while I was
in there that I didn't fear for my life someone

(54:37):
because we were so gunna hold about and in the
military in the in the war, it was hurry up
and weight So literally we fought the war for about
two days. The rest of it was you know, running
around and moving around. The two days of two to
three days of heavy fighting. Then they stopped. It was
where it was to the shelling, and those three days
was crazy. We were we moved, he came back home.

(55:02):
Did you like you have to go through any kind
of therapy, a counseling just to kind of react, Justine, No,
that was that was the easiest war because you got
had lot. It wasn't like Afghanistan or this place. You know,
the Gulf War was a cake welcome player to the
rest of those bro you know what I mean. It
was low casualty, and I get it. You know, we
lost people, so one son or a daughter from my

(55:24):
mom or a pop is not low casualty. But in
the things, yeah, it's considered low low casualty. So I
got out, you know, unfazed by it, but in a way,
very thankful, very very appreciative and very aware of how

(55:45):
fortunate I am, you know, and I never looked back
once you once you signed the doted line and the
government owns you. Yeah, how fast can you get out
of it? Like I'm certain that in basically four years,
you gotta do your four years. Okay, it's high school
college unless you get kicked out. Unless you get kicked out. Yeah,

(56:05):
and if you get kicked out, then you know you
you can't own and you can't hold any government jobs.
You know what I mean. There's so many things that
you can't do once you get kicked out. I got
issues government like barbage man to like even anything, police,

(56:26):
anything any you can't do any of those those things.
There's certain things you just can't do when you're out.
If you look at Walt Disney, when you always see
Walt Disney sitting down, if you noticed there's always those
pictures behind him. There was one that was upside down
that was his dishonored with discharge. Ah hey, hey, there

(56:51):
there's a major history of like Jimi Hendrix, Rick James, Like, yeah,
people that I was not a model marine. I came
out one of other PFC. But if you go to
Paris Holland. Now my pictures like Shaggy's very they sell me. Yeah,
they used being recruit these days. How did you transition

(57:14):
because you know, being in the military and that's like
very you know, rigid, it's structure, you have, you know,
time every day. How was the transition going into the
music business where nothing is structured? How did you make
that transition? I think it's what set me apart from
everybody else, certainly in dance, had to um, you know,

(57:35):
apart from me having a sound on a different style
of music as Yeah, I was professionally, I was on time,
I worked really hard and you know, and um, it
really set me apart from everybody else. That's that's what
really did. So that transition wasn't r because I was.
I was in the military doing that. Let it be

(57:55):
known that Shaggy might be the first QLs guests that
showed up ten minutes early before the interview started. I was.
I was in a car on the way home from
the night show and they're like, he's here already. I'm like, yo, man,
I didn't even get to my apartment fifteen minutes early.
Not not just making me do push ups. Shaggy, I

(58:29):
always wanted to know this. Okay, So when I started
to seriously DJ, especially, you know, there was a period
where a lot of the I guess the w P
record compilation stuff started coming out, and basically, you know,
you have a kazilion um. Okay, First of all, what

(58:50):
would I call? Okay? So if someone looks at someone
in hip hop and the person that's doing the rhyme
or whatever, we'll say, okay, that's the MC that the rap. Yeah,
I know that technically you guys are DJs, but like
what would you commonly call the person with the microphone
in dance hall culture? Are you calling him an m

(59:12):
C or a rapper? DJ? DJ, DJM music? Say what?
So at DJ they used to call it back in
the day toasting, like like the British were called toasting,
But in dancehall culture in Jamaica, you say, yo, use
a DJ to this day? My my nickname is DJ.

(59:34):
And the back with the records? Who is he select them?
I knew that I was just testing everybody else, right
like that? Can you tell me the process, especially you know,
starting in at least eight eight, when like dance hall
is really really finding it's it's legs. How do rhythms

(59:58):
get distributed, like how are you guys aware that yo? Okay,
let's let's take the most infamous one, which is the
slide Robbie Murdercy wrote rhythm. Yeah. Now, you know, we
live in a time where you could pick up your
iPhone and something goes viral. But how are people aware
that there's a new rhythm ready to be like right

(01:00:21):
for business in which you know, I can rhyme over
this or or not toast over this? Well, well, you
know that particular rhythm. A lot of people don't know
that Robbie Shakespeare wasn't really on that. It was really
it was really slide now just like team their team

(01:00:43):
and Slide Robbie. But Robbie really didn't play bass on that.
It was really it was really and Robbie has been
very very close friend of mine um for years, you know.
But that rhythm itself, you know, it was made with
um Takademn Suppliers, and they did two songs on it.

(01:01:04):
I think Pliers did Bam Bam, which was a cover
of the old Twits, and then and then they did
Murder she wrote, And those were the two records. First,
it didn't become a riddim until after that where people
slide started to make it as a ridden for other
people to do and started doing different. Okay, I'm gonna

(01:01:25):
just say it, you guys, because I'm gonna say for
this for the folks who don't know, just tell them
what the term is, tell them what the background and
so like, don't you notice like sometimes you'll hear the
same song, you'll see her at the same musical bathroom. Okay,
everybody like kind we're not covering way back the what
was the right right? And then that was that the

(01:01:49):
rhythm So the wally riddon was done by Lanky Marston,
who was also a protege of Slyer Robbie to be
honest with you, and and Linky Marsden is one of
the arrangers on this new album with Me and Stay Yeah,
So he created that and did Sean Paul um Um
Get Busy and all of those records and made you

(01:02:09):
want to know, letting Go and all that way, so
that that record that was a very popular rhythm to
I'm just asking from the musical standpoint, so say, if
I make a beat right, I produce something, Yeah, do
I want everyone to rhyme over it, and am I
getting paid like the person that does the rhythm to
or whatever did dd D Like when he does that

(01:02:34):
rhythm and then like thirty people are rhyming and releasing
records on that rhythm. Am I getting paid thirty times?
Or am I just yes you are? Okay, yes you
are because because each song, each song is a new composition,
so little me d oh, it is a different composition,
Sean Paul um Uh, you're busy, it's a different composition.

(01:02:58):
So yeah, I mean, so there's no there's no like
territorial pissing. Like I don't know, like if I made
something dope like grinding by the clips, if the clips
rhyme over grinding, I would figure that Pharrell wouldn't want
anyone else to have that musical backdrop except for the
artists the intensive. Yeah but if you, but but if you,

(01:03:21):
if you in the business of money, you're gonna to
happen though. Yeah, but if you're saying it like alright,
you got you got sting, did every birth you take
and then Puffy did it over with um miss you
to say be stink got paid twice, and now you'll
just sound like Mary's samples are marrying into the rhythm,

(01:03:45):
so you know, it's it's the same ship, you know,
I mean, so if you I want that to happen. Nowadays,
it's not as popular to have rhythms again as much.
You know, it's not it doesn't dominate like that. It's
mainly and the Internet really changed that. So you'll see
people do you know, because YouTube is where most Jamaicans consume.
They're they're they're streaming, so they'll be buying into these

(01:04:08):
songs and it's still easy, you know, to just get
into different different songs. Now, well that was my next question.
I was about to say, like, I haven't seen a
new rhythm since like two thousand and seven almost, it's
almost like it it went out. So for you, where
is dance hall culture? I have a feeling that like,

(01:04:32):
is there something new that the younger generations embracing chronics.
Chronics is a part of the new generation. I would think,
you know, these an old soul yeah, but but but
but there that's a guy where the music that he
made was appealing to the young young guys, but also
to older people. You know what I'm saying, people fun

(01:04:54):
with chronics who are old people who were young and
I'm saying but as far as that, as far as
dance All now, you know, if you look at what
dance all is right now, it's a different kind of
a sound. But what you're with, what dance All is
looking for, is that superhero star that I'm telling to
really make it cool and shift it. You know, the

(01:05:16):
sound might very well be there is a combination of
two things, a sound, right and and the artists and
the star. Because you could sing something backwards in the Hebrew.
If you cool enough doing it, you're gonna grab onto it.
Do you get what I'm saying? There's is there a
lack of a certain type of charisma? Yeah, I mean

(01:05:37):
the same way that there will never be another Michael Jackson.
There will never be another print. And I'm I'm gonna
break it down to you. I'm gonna tell you why
I'm break it down to you. There is a lack
of that because you might have somebody who's really talented
but they don't have charisma. Or you might have somebody
that got the charisma but he can't spit real well.

(01:05:58):
Or you might have somebody that got the rism and
he could spit well. For then the person's lazy ship,
don't want to do no interviews, don't want to go
nothing and so or you might have somebody got all
of that, but they got to manage that. Just a idiot,
you know what I'm saying. So when you when you
look at it, if you to to get a superstar,
that super you gotta have all of that line though.

(01:06:19):
Take for instance, you look at Aproby, everybody say Aproby
has been coming forever blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Okay,
or you look at Burner Boy right now is the
biggest in the world. Now if you go to like
Nigeria and talk to probably the average person to be
like Burnaby, that guy, you know what I mean? You
not go because the same ship that go on a
different day with a different artist. You know, they same

(01:06:40):
ship with me shot Yang. Ain't that you know? Whatever
it is? So whoever the popular one is, but what
sets burna Boy apart? That's that's the guy that did
the work. Because how are you gonna tell the guys
in Africa? Africa is a continent. These guys are driving
Lamborghinis and Ferrari. You're gonna tell him to come over here?

(01:07:00):
And do Quest Love Show for free. Got it it?
Take it takes. It takes a different mindset of a
guy to be like, you know what, I'm seeing a
bigger picture here. I'm gonna go do Question Ship free
and I'm gonna and I'm gonna come from fifteen minutes
early and make sure that that motherfucker's see me when

(01:07:22):
he comes. I mean, and it ain't money for that guy,
it's it is really a bigger picture of where he
wants to go. That's that's what Bernard boy has. He
that's the guy that decided that he's gonna do it. Now.
What's gonna happen now is once he gets that, you're
gonna see a lot of motherfucker's who was driving the
car be like, you know, I want to be as
big as that, Yo, he ain't ship look that you

(01:07:43):
know they're going to start to work now because he's
now set at that trend of what to do. You
notice right outter Shaggy there was a shop Paul, I mean,
and that then that because trend you noticed right after
Remember what motherfucker's used to do until Jay started putting
on suits, you know, and and and and put it
fitted on and then motherfucker's became instead of rappers, they

(01:08:04):
became wounds, you know, and remember that, and Jade came
with a model. You know, you went Beyonce. I saw
fit to do an interview the other day and say, uh,
we know why Jay made because he signed that contract?
What contract Beyonce? Because because Beyonce was this leverage. Because
you're gonna have a different conversation. Now when you got

(01:08:24):
Beyonce and the rule, you know what I'm saying, that's
a difference. And if you if you look at the model,
it became okay. So what came after that? Kanye and
Kim same model? Uh, Swiss and Alicia same model? Right
right now you got Cardi b and and same same model,
you know. I mean it's it's been patterned because it

(01:08:45):
was blueprinted by Jay, and you saw that it worked,
you followed it, you know what I'm saying. And that's
all we're trying to do in dance all is create
that mold. They'd be like, oh, ship that's blueprinted. This
mother could made that. I'm gonna funk with that. And
you might do a spin off of it and ain't
gotta be exactly the same way. But you know, you

(01:09:07):
got something as a guide to bring you there, But
making that next shaggy is more of a challenge, I
think than people even know, because I was I was
just thinking about this as we were talking about these
other records that came out during the time when you did,
like even with the Murder she Roads or uh flex.
The other one thing that you have and that nobody
ever did, and we don't want to admit this as Americans,

(01:09:29):
is that we knew what the funk you were saying,
because for like the rest of those records, we were
just uh. But that was calculated. I figured it out,
you know what I mean. I took I knew motherfucker's
like reggae because they liked the cadences and the floor.
I took dance all cadences. But I just spoke to
Queen's English. So I put a little path word there

(01:09:51):
and there. But then I made it clear enough. A
lot of this one big politic when you're still young,
who's gonna have their back when it's all dumb, it's
all go to wait, you have that accent that is there.
That was deliberate. It wasn't accident, but to the point
where people question but to the point where question your
validity as from Jamaican. That should kill It made me

(01:10:13):
and killed me at the same time. It made me
because I got every single radio my records would be.
It killed me because they'll be like that ain't real Jamaican.
You don't hear that mother and what I'm saying that
mother game Jamaican. And I am more Jamaican than all
the motherfucker's because I'm not. I'm from the gutters of Jamaica.
I'm from the Jamaican. I mean I did everything Jamaican

(01:10:35):
out of them. But at the end of the day,
as history absorbs you after a while, that story wasn't
shaggy though. That part of the story was never told
about you because of the fact that you you skipped
and went to that pop thing. So everybody who was
pushing towards that director had no idea that we wanted
to hear that story was necessary and I didn't want
I didn't want to go Pop. I just go away there, understood,

(01:10:59):
just because if you because if you think about there's
another guy that was in my company. His name was
Bob Marley. Noticed that Bob Marley was never played on
black radio. Yes, he was played, He was played on
rock radio. It's so ironic now that that Marley has
now become a simple of black people and and the

(01:11:20):
black struggle, but was not embraced. You're right, it's funny
because it was truly black radio's fault, not black people,
which my mother always makes it clear, like, don't get
it twisted. I saw the documentary too, We fucked with him.
Radio did not exactly exactly, so so ironic. And then
what was so what was so crazy is that the

(01:11:42):
Marley music that you hear now that is now the
blueprint of reggae music was actually a hybrid because of
because of rock. Because let me show you Chris Blackwell.
To get to get reggae to be played on rock hurts,
he hired session musicians to do overdubs on a lot

(01:12:04):
of the original Whaler's records, created a hyper and created
a hybrid. And that's how, and those records are now
the blueprint of what reggae muse a kiss now if
you look at it, even would Sting in the police,
Sting used to idle. Stink told me this that he
tried to to emulate Um. He tried to emulate uh
family man and and and the winners and all of

(01:12:26):
these reggae bands, and what he created, he couldn't do it.
So what he ended up doing was a hybrid version
of it, which became the sound of yea yeah. It
became white reggae. And and and if you look at
if you look at the Police, they were really the
first white reggae band that's sold millions, you know. And

(01:12:49):
and then and if you look at it now, at
all the rest of the band, you look at you
be forty. All of these bands that have sold over
ten million or massive, they're all white. You before, they
no doubt a base, you know, no, right even now
the two biggest reggae bands is Soldier and Revolution, white

(01:13:10):
reggae bants. I was with Spice and that fight she
shod one one a matter of fact. Matter of fact,
Bob Marley was arguably the biggest reggae artists of all time.
He's only number one was I shot the sheriff. That
was done by the white guy. You got to teast

(01:13:30):
his master class, Shaggy Shaggy. Yeah. When when you're when
you're having this initial success with with Caroline and all
these hits, you know, you're you're now stepping into spaces
and territories that are you know, only for you know,

(01:13:50):
the elite artists. And so what's that experience like like
now getting to play the stadiums and doing these shows
that otherwise you know, you're not doing these like local
run of the mill nightclubs and sound systems. I'll tell
you what. I never felt accepted. I believe that I was.

(01:14:15):
I was never felt accepted in any of it. I
always felt out of place. Even though I was in
the room with some of these big names and I
sold those numbers, I never felt like I was accepted
as part of it. It was like, Okay, he's just
to think, Oh, you got lucky and you're here. So
even when you like, performed for Michael Jackson at at MSG,

(01:14:40):
because I think he actually said I love this song
I saw us about. Yeah, he said it was his
favorite record. But Michael gave me a speech. Like I
spoke to Michael and he gave me a speech. And
when you're talking to Michael Jackson and he knows everything
about your album more than you, you realized that that
person is stud like he was. He was asking me

(01:15:03):
about album tracks, not singles, album tracks quick backstory Mike.
So Michael Jackson before streaming culture, Michael had like four dudes.
Every week, like four guys would have to study every
chart around the world. Yeah, and then make Michael Jackson
a compilation of every top twenty chart for every country

(01:15:26):
in the world. So every Monday morning, Michael Jackson's getting
a new compilation of whatever is like just gotten to
the top twenty and he's studying it. And if Davis
Davis did the same thing, yeah, okay, and then if
he likes what he hears, then he studies that artist

(01:15:48):
whole history. Yeah, explains why he takes like six years
between records. So he's busy. So Michael, for me, was
was a validation because for one, I didn't even know
the guy named my name. Imagine how shocked I was
that I got the invite. I'm like, I'm Dansall, are
you serious? I'm like yeah, And and and that I

(01:16:11):
was gonna be on Prime Time singing that ship you
know what I'm saying, And then he reacted out. He reacted,
So that was that was a moment for me. So
that was a part of the validation for me. But
I think the biggest validation I got was Sting. That
was that was the biggest validation for me. That like
Sting restored every confidence that I was lacking. Talk about

(01:16:34):
how did you guys meet? You know? Funny enough, I'm
missing uh in two thousand and four and Antwerp and
I jumped on stage and did um Roxane and I
never saw him again in two years after um was
that the police reunion? No, it wasn't produced union. He
was just you know, doing no. He did rock yeah

(01:16:55):
on his own. Yeah, he does that every night. It's
his song, he wrote, He wrote all So it's good
that Normally, normally when I see Stings, you know, I
get jazzy Sting or whatever. Like he never touched you know,
he's that That night he did and we ended up
in Antwerp. I was on a thing called Night of
the Problems with me, James Brown, sending Law, Paul point

(01:17:18):
of Sister, all of us was there. It was a
big orchestra thing. We were there for a month, you know,
And that's when I met James Brown too, who took
a liking to me and kicked my door in and
gave me a full fucking sit down one evening. What
was that like? He walked into my dressing room with

(01:17:38):
a with a bodyguard guy behind him and and the
dude that always put the thing over his shoulders and
and he walked in and said and said, um. He says, sit,
I want to talk to you. And I was like,
oh shoot, I'm not getting like a James Brown beat
down or something. So I sat. And then he was like,

(01:17:59):
let me something. I'd watch you every night. I see
him come, I see him go, been to your country,
a part of Molly. Let me tell you something you
could you the truth, you funny, you need letteracy. Those
eyes and I'm looking at me and I'm gonna say,
let me tell you something. They can take away your woman,
your house, your car, your money. There's one thing to
never take away from you your talent. And as long

(01:18:22):
as you have your talent, you're a rich man. Keep
doing what you're doing. God bless you. Get up and
walked out. That was my James Brown, you know. And
I was like, because he would because he would come
out on the stage like all of us. We had
these orchestras playing that would come out every now and
then and play different different songs, and he would come

(01:18:44):
out every time. It was my segment. He pull a
chair up and he just sit down and watch Wow.
And then yeah, and then I would be like Mr Mr.
They would say, Mr Brown, and I'll be like god
father you always and he comes in and you know,
you know, it was how and that be like that,
and he just really took a liking to me for
some reason. I heard it was a hardass, but he

(01:19:05):
was like really just a really cool guy to me
for some reason. He just you know, he just liked me,
you know. So we were there doing that and then
Sting came in and and for one night that and
we gave up the night. And that's the first time
I met it. Years afterwards, Mark Kerzenbaum, who was my
a n R at at Giffen when you know, remember

(01:19:26):
that time when MC turned into Giffen. Remember so Martin
Martin was the head of international and he was the
only person that really championed my my project at that
time with a sexy lady and these out records, and
so I decided to say, hey, that guy championed me.
I told Jimmy, I want him to be my a

(01:19:47):
n R. And so Martin and I became really good friends.
Martin then did Cheritary label and signed Lady Gada and
l M f A oh and all of these bigger,
big bit of bigger bands. And when Martin left into Interscope,
he started managing Sting because he was also stings A
and R for years, and he just thought he knew
me and news Sting and just thought that we would

(01:20:11):
get along. And I had a song called Don't Make
Me Wait, and Martin says, I love that song, could
you send it to me? So I sent it to
him and I'm in the student l a when I
sent it to him doing some ship and Stick walked
in singing it and he was like, don't maybe come
on shackles make to say hit And I was like,
oh yeah. It was like really And we sat there

(01:20:34):
and he looks at me and he says, now I
want you to produce me. I wanted to be authentic.
This is your this is your genre. I want you
to and I'm like, you want me to produce you?
What's that? I hear? He's hard to take instructions, So no,
he's very easy. Is one of the easiest guys you

(01:20:54):
could do. The other thing, you could realize what this
thing is that when he's creating, if he comes up
with something and you like it and he likes it.
Just know he's doing thirty more of him and he
might come back to the original. That's it might be
frustrating to you that if you hear that one that

(01:21:16):
you like, he's not Okay, I know you like that. Okay,
we'll put that in the pocket. Now, I got thirty
more to do, right, So you gotta have patience. Dumb question,
guys say, are you the first reggae artist this thing
is worked with? I don't. I don't, I don't, I
don't know. I don't think this thing is worked with
so many people, but I'm I'm the first one's out

(01:21:37):
an album. Yeah, yeah, he's never he's never done a
full album with anyone like that. Man do a full
album together. And it was a camaraderie. We we met
each other and just and just was like we had
more fun than music and we just started laughing and
just it just happened. We performed with each other, like

(01:21:58):
I think right before the pandemic the summer before and
when I got the record, I always wanted to know,
why did you guys name it forty four eight seven six? Well,
who was just trying to be creative. Um, what's the
what's the significance behind the number? So so four four
is the area? Is the is the phone code when

(01:22:19):
you're in the UK press plus four plus four four
and seventy six is Jamaica. So it's four or four six? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
before we close, I definitely want to get to this
this new project, so comflat, like I did not see

(01:22:44):
this coming now. Yeah, I'm a Sinatra fan, Like, tell me,
tell me the genesis of how you came up with
this idea. I'm gonna do Frank Sinatra covers. We were
on tour on the four seven six to or and
we had a day off and in like Norway are
one of these places, and we're on the fields on

(01:23:06):
a boat. Stings says, let's let's take a boat out
and just hang out for the day. And then we
were out there and it was me and Dominic Miller's guitarists,
and we're all out there on the boat. We had
drinks and everything, and then he jumped off into the
water and started swimming and I was like, I knew
that ship. That's just that's just cool. I'm I'm Jamaican,

(01:23:29):
ain't me bro? So I just he dumped off and
sing and started to swim in there him and dominate,
and I said, I'm staying on the boat. So while
it was out there swimming, I'm like, okay, let me
put on some music. So I just put on some
Sinatra because I like Sinatra, and I was raised on Sinatra.
Like I said, it's Sunday music. So I just started

(01:23:52):
playing it from my phone. And then Sting was coming
back up on the boat and I was singing along
to it, and he just looked at me and says, yo,
that's your key. I'm like okay, And I was like, no, no, no,
you have the same you have the same tone as
as Sinatra. That's he's a base tenor you're a base
tenor that's And so he's going to meet with all

(01:24:14):
this ship and I'm like, all right, well, yeah, sure,
whatever you know. And then we started talking and he
said we would be cool if we did this a
reggae and blah blah blah, and all this ship. The
ships stayed away to like this is before the pandemic.
All is it just sit around. We ain't done ship.
And then last year, at the top of the year,
he looks at me and says what. The year before

(01:24:36):
he says, you know, we should. He was doing um
this stay in Vegas. We call it the Residences Residency.
And I went out there to do to the Residency
and sat and kind of jumped on stage with the
night and we were backstage and I started singing the
Sinatra Ship again and he's playing and ship and he said,
say we should do this. I'm like, all right again,
I'm not thinking nothing, and he's like, what are you doing.

(01:24:57):
The top of the year, I said, I'm gonna be
in my AMMI. He says, let's do it. And then
the top of the year he came to my house
in Miami and he called me and says, hey, we're
gonna do it. So I ended up flying some musicians
up and we did it in my at my house,
in my student in my house in Miami, and started
doing it there. By the end of the week, I
had like eight songs. I was like, oh, Ship, this

(01:25:18):
has really happened and it really sounded it. And then
we ended up going to Jamaica. Now we got like
Dean Fraser, Lanky Mars. Then we got all the original dudes,
we got all the backgrounds done, and then we ended
up going to l a at Capitol into Sinatra's and
we did like you know, the yeah, yeah we did original. Yeah,
we weren't there. Yeah, yeah, it's it's trippy. It's trip

(01:25:45):
the microphone and yeah, it's trippy, you know what I mean.
And so we ended up doing that and then it
was Robert who had done it was good at that
repertoire that Sting brought in, you know, and we had
to because and most reggae records are good on two chords,
you notice, and it's most reggae records are two chords

(01:26:07):
and sinatras you know, four or five six chord changes.
We had to figure out. The genius was how to
figure it out to make it not be more jazz
than reggae, because if it's two jazz, then it's just
gonna be corny. And if it's too reggae, then it's
got the enough jazz. So you have to take the
right amount of chords out to make it work and

(01:26:30):
if it strip it down. And that was experimental because
if it went too much, then it it would be
you know, it would be too corn if it's too much,
and you know, and it became it became a really
really hard process and it took Sting really hearing what
he was saying. All the vocals was produced by Sting,

(01:26:51):
like he sat there with me and taught me every
note the piano, just like nope, nope, not that, nope,
not that, nope, not you know, and really crack on
me to make sure that I got Yeah, cracked the
whip to make sure that I did. I did average
about two songs a day. What was the most challenging
song in the songbook to conquered? Luck Be a Lady

(01:27:16):
was hard, because yeah, luck be a Lady was really
really hard and Saturday night and I would think, I
think that's life was also yeah, yeah it was. It
was all right and you know it and it's it's
really just he wanted it, like he says, He kept
saying to me, don't do Sinatra. I don't want Sinatra.

(01:27:39):
I want Shaggy. And it was important for him to
get that. He said, I you're you're doing Sinatra songs,
You're in the same register as in but don't do Sinatra.
I want you to because I had a tendency of
mimicking people, so mimics that He was like, no, I
want Shaggy, you know, and he was. He is adamant

(01:28:00):
about So at one point you took your trademark voice
away to try to clone like Satra. No, no, it
wasn't even that. I would still use that voice, but
just the way Sinatra would sing it. Note for note,
I was copying that, and he didn't want that. It
was like, I want Shaggy. You know, it's gonna be.
It's gonna you gotta bring that reggae flavor to it's reggae.

(01:28:23):
I want that shaggy, you know. And he was. He
was very adamant about it. I mean talking when I
say every line, man, I mean, we would. He was
really on it. He's and if you work with Sting,
this guy is there. He's ever on time. He's you know,
he's early always, you know, and he's always a beat
you there, so you know, and I lived at my

(01:28:45):
studio and he'll be there before I get up, and
I'm like, dude, come on, man, you know I mean,
and so he'll be there that challenge. Yeah, and you
do it in the day, straight down and he'll buy
six seven o'clock will stop. And that's how we worked
every day. It was never a late night nothing by

(01:29:06):
seven o'clock. We would probably go, you know, I'm gonna
meet him at the bar by eight or something by
nineties like okay, I'm going to be you know what
I mean? That's always would I have like a glass
of wine or something like that. How did you get
your name? Ship? Because because you can that curled pattern

(01:29:27):
is undefined. Let me tell you. Let me tell you
something I was. I was skinny and I had a
lot of hair, and they call me shaggy dog, shaggy
dog and the dog not even like yeah, And then
I went to England and found out that Chad meant
something else. Yeah, I was like like that ship cool man.

(01:29:58):
Like I'm like, I'm like, oh, ship, that's that's what
it means. Almost the love of love of shore shooting
a mirror. If not in the Rock Roll Hall Fame,
we need the Rock Roll Hall of Fame. We need
to Trinity Center honors. So boom BASTI. I mean, just

(01:30:27):
tell us about how your life changes when you have
a huge record. I signed I did All Carolina. It
became number one in the British chart. It was massive,
like and it was number one and almost so and
Kim Berry signed me, who was the co founder of Virgin.
Kim Berry had signed that record, and I was in

(01:30:49):
a bidding world with Chris Blackwell and Kim Berry. Now
I wanted to go with Ireland Records because that's where
all my reggae heroes work. And and and Susan Newman,
who was Chris black Cloth right hand and me. You
got really really friendly. She she she really loved me.
She picked up from the airport. She would rock with
me all the time. So I really wanted to be
on that label. I was friend with a patche Indian

(01:31:11):
at that time. Him and I used to hang out
in London and he was on that label. So I
really wanted to be on that label. And I was
driving to go sign a a deal memo and my
manager got a call from ken Berry offering me a
million pounds at that time in which is on Earth,
and I think Chris Blackboard was offering me something like
a hundred fifty to two thousand pounds bullshit money, And

(01:31:35):
I went there. I was like, okay, can you match it?
And Chris was like, well, you know, it's a little
bit too rich for me, you know what I mean.
I've never paid that much for Regyards. I'm not about
to know he paid four thousand dollars for the mark
for the so anyway, so I'm just I'm just letting
you know. So um him. So I went with ken

(01:31:57):
Berry because he he gave me a bit of offer.
And then when it happened, Old Carolina happened. You know,
I did Bombastic, And when I did Bombastic, it came
out and debuted at number one. The first date was
out and it was the first time in reggae or
dance all the history that any reggae dance a record

(01:32:17):
with debut on the Goodish chart at number one. And
ken Berry called me and he says, Shaggy, congratulations your
number one. I'm like, what's number one? The song? I said,
we just put it out. He says, yes, the debut
at number one. He says, wow, he says, and then
he says, I wonder what Chris would be thinking now.
And I said, and I said, I said, well, you know, Chris,
you know, he said, you know, he couldn't. It's reggae

(01:32:39):
was gonna make that much money. He says, funny should
say that I made my million back on Old Carolina.
It was top five in every country. This is just
this is just the bonus debut at number one, and
it was the first time in the history. And the
crazy part about it. When I was doing that record,
I was in a car driving to the HCNF studio
in Long Island and I had to track on I

(01:33:02):
had to track on a cassette and it was cassette
back in the days, and I'm playing it and all
I could do or like, like, the only vibe the record,
the song gave, the beat gave me was just moaning.
I just kept moaning on the record. I moaned the
whole drive. I just whoa ro mhm lovell love fall ROA.

(01:33:27):
And so when I got to the studio and staying
international put it up on on on the table, you know,
I just went around there. I just started moaning fun
fustic roa. And then he thing looked at me and said, yo,

(01:33:49):
my funck. He got with some lyrics of that ship.
But I like what you're saying with you and it's
a smooth jostle saw fun And those records were freestyle.
I never wrote those records. I just it was started
from moming wait wait, I the irony of you telling

(01:34:11):
the story because even in the story of Let's Get
It On. Yeah, and this really circle because the version
of Let's Get It On that we know was a
freestyle because basically the moment he saw Jan Hunter walk

(01:34:32):
in the room, he was showing off and he freestyled. Yeah.
The original Let's Get It On, it was like a
political song. It was like, yeah, like let's let's organized,
let's get it right. Yeah, but crazy part. Crazy part though,
I did those moaning not on the on because the
Marvin Gay version that you know of Let's Get It

(01:34:54):
On that is on Bombastic was a remix, so that
the rich the original, which was big in every other
country except the United States. I should know this. The
Marvin Gay versions that you know happens to be only
in northern in America. That's it. In every country in

(01:35:16):
the world, the original is the hit record. So when
you perform it, you do what's version depending on America. Yes,
in America, I use the Marvin Gay. Everywhere else in
the country, I go to the original reggae version, which yeah,
well wait, since you told that story, then I need

(01:35:37):
to know did you ever find out what Virgin thought
once you went to two m c A with it?
It wasn't mean, because I'm almost certain that they said
like okay, well, so ken Berry, who is of course
the head of the Virgin, ended up moving on. There's
the craziest thing. After that, I got that record. I

(01:35:59):
ended up to Maxey Priest's album at that time, and
we did that Girl, which was also a top five
record right stat and then and then I put another
record out and and it came up the same day
Princess Diana died and they just stopped playing records. They
just played Candle in the Wind on every radio station.
You're right, and and and so and so my record

(01:36:22):
tanked and my album tanked. And there's a guy that
was the head of the record company, ken Bury. It
now moved on to running you know, because he had
success with Me and Letting Kravitz and Janets, so he
was a big wig now. So they ended up running
em I, the w E am I, And there was
a guy called Paul Conroy who became the president, and

(01:36:43):
he just did not know what then to do with me.
It's like his dance solid and so they dropped me,
and they dropped me and Maxi and signed the next
dance All Sensation at the time, which was being a Man. Wow, Okay,
at the same money they dropped me, they signed Being

(01:37:03):
a Man and they were trying to get it's out
of in and out of sitting there trying to did
the Maya record. A couple of those records was going
Patrick Moxie who was the father of Day right, he
was at pay Day. He ended up being the head
of uh, the head of A and R at that time,
and running Virgin at that time and the whole Janetan

(01:37:24):
and he put Being a Man with Janet Jackson all
that ship. So it was so crazy about that is
in the time that was going on, jam and Lewis
decided to do a project for How Stella Got Her
Groove back? Yeah, and they they did the soundtrack and
so al right, here the here the crazy part. Now

(01:37:47):
Terry McMillan, who actually the story was about, who was
the writer and she she did the story of autobiography
about herself and her court and of this guy and her.
He told Terry Lewis that you gotta get Shaggy on
that soundtrack because me and my man used to fuck
to that Boom Bastard record and Jamaican that iss tr

(01:38:15):
fucking story, and that's how Terry Lewis came to New York,
found me and say, Shaggy, I want to play a track.
And the track had boy I love you so and
I just started. When he started playing, I was like
a wood a man, aalode to make him moisten, wed
old amnalode, to make him own, and said sweet Suckerlington
filed to clear. And he's like, oh ship, oh ship,

(01:38:38):
And I'm just in awe because I'm in Jimmy jam
and Terry fucking Lewis like like, what the fuck. And
Terry was like, oh man, you should ship ship. Oh ship.
He called Jimmy because Jimmy was He called Jimmy say,
oh man, you need to hear this ship. This is
my fucking ship. He was like. And then he started
playing a bunch of records and it got like Mary J.
Blige and Casey Jogian Boys the Bend and fucking prints

(01:39:00):
and all that. I was like, oh ship, my record
is gonna make it. That's it. And just so what happened.
They ended up putting the soundtrack out because at that time,
when the movies came out, you put the soundtrack out
without and say and you put the soundtrack out and
radio just out of just started playing the track with
me and Janet. But we didn't have single rights that song,
so he couldn't be We couldn't, So we ended up

(01:39:24):
shooting a video. Eventually the record stop blowing up and
I was just going from station to station working it,
and then we ended up doing a video. But when
I did a video, now, if you look at the
video online, you will see that Angela Bassett and Whoopie
Goldberg's or who was singing the hook Janet was it? Yeah,
because we couldn't get it. We couldn't get it, They

(01:39:45):
wouldn't and I was a little reggae guy, was a
major major pop stars. They were virgin Patrick Moxy wasn't
gonna get give her to me either at that point
because he had just dropped me, dropped me and side Beanie.
Now I catched this fucking record, and it was like,
I ain't giving you Janet that you don't meet men
meant doing a join with Janet with the Neptunes exactly,

(01:40:09):
which that's sold a little bit him so right right,
I mean, and the and the Neptunes did that ship
and they spent two million on video on the old
Ship and my Ship became number one. And then right
after that, the next record that really popped up for
me was was it Wasn't Me? And then I was off,
Yeah it was off? Was that another kind of like freestyles?

(01:40:33):
It wasn't Me? Was that? What was that? It wasn't me?
It wasn't Me? I got from UM. I was watching
UM Yeah, Eddie Murphy, I was watching Raw. Yeah it
wasn't Me. Yeah, Yeah, and I saw that and I
was I was like, Yo, that's the song, and I
just we just cultivated from RAW. I saw Eddie in
Bahamas told him because we was back to say, I

(01:40:54):
was like, you know, you know, I took that whole
ship from it. Is that the motherfucker me? Roy? I
knew he was at this point, Shaggy, I know the
answer to you feeling like you're getting your flowers from America.
I feel like you, I don't know if you I'm
assuming that that's like not as much, but I wanted
to know how do you feel about getting your flowers
from the folks in Jamaica, Like do you feel at

(01:41:17):
this point that they are you respected as a legend
that you are and it felt like that why you
do because if you're doing a spicy record, I felt
like that was a beautiful kind of wrap around, like
they respect you, you respect him? Or or is that
just it's been a journey. It's been a journey from
me being starting at dance hall, then becoming pop and
then not having no respect at home to me doing

(01:41:41):
a song called Church. I literally got off Geffen to
do dance All if you if you remember quest the
record called all of them, so all of them up
with with with Olivier, with Olivia. I ended ended up
doing that record, even though the record company didn't want
me to do that record, because I wanted to do
Dance you know what I'm saying, And I knew that

(01:42:02):
I had to get back into dance All to get
the street back. And then right after that, when it
put it out, it didn't do very well because they
didn't know what to do with it, and then they
dropped me. And right after they dropped me, I wrote
Church Eathen, which was a massive nineteen weeks number one
in the dance hall, and then just overnight everybody in
the streets started sucking with me. And then and then

(01:42:24):
the Prime Minister at the time, Porshea Simpson was a woman.
She was the first woman running for for for prime
minister and and and she ended up using strength of
a Woman as a theme song, and every little ghetto
kid was singing that ship and that became massive. And
then I ended up doing my charity concert, which was
Shaggy and Friends, where I raised money for the bust

(01:42:45):
of Manda Hospital for children, you know, and I had
everybody from Lauren Hill to fucking voice them into everybody.
Sting was the last person that did it. And I
done that. So it became a respectful thing after a while,
where people be like, Okay, just do is a truth.
I'm funking with him, you know what I mean? And
that became that. And so it became that, and I

(01:43:05):
had the respect of Jamaica, but I didn't have the
respect of the industry. The industry was still like, Okay,
this guy isn't authentic. And and that came in part
with with Sting saying, you know, this guy is a
genius or as as he would put it on on interviews,

(01:43:26):
which blew my mind because I think of him as
like a musical genius god. But he would have these
conversations like I've never seen anybody writes songs as fast
as this guy and does it and he doesn't play
an instrument, and it's always and it always freaked him out.
He always says, I don't understand how you're so melodic
and don't play you know, It's just it's all in

(01:43:48):
your head, you know. And I will sit around a
mic and freestyle. Could we come from that and spitting
these melodies and ship like that and we go down
the road right Larry side and be like okay. So
he would get that, So he validated me on that level.
This true validation comes now from the Spice record, which
I wrote, you know uh and got was a shaggy

(01:44:09):
record first, and I literally took it and flipped it
to the Spice and then we put Sean Ball on it,
and that became not just a massive record on the
global side of things, but it all had a big
tiptalk record, but it was the streets and it was
produced by me. It was but and then and then
there were other things to life. For instance, Cartel did

(01:44:32):
Slow Motion Um, which was a record what was one
of his first big records, which which I produced and
put on my label. You know what I'm saying and
and and and you know, because I went there and
took his voice and everything and got it, got it done.
And there's so many other reggae records, dance all records
that I've done that were big that people didn't know
I wrote, but I wrote, you know, I mean, I'm

(01:44:53):
talking hardcore ship like Chico. If you don't care, member,
see you what you on it out of the air.
Probably amount of money that all of these ships, MAXI Priests,
um whatever your eyes can see. All these records were
records that were streat records that I I either wrote
or produced. And then so after whild people just started
to be like, okay, yeah, alright, what him? Well that

(01:45:19):
was actually my question, So thank you. Is there anything
that you have yet to achieve? Like because I know,
like you know, over achievers might necessarily feel like there's
one more it's they gotta scratch and that sort of thing.
And I know that even for us, like we've had
the same journey where you know, our audience who does

(01:45:41):
not look like us, embraces this ship out of us,
and you know, but we long for our hometown. Are
our people to really embrace this, which I feel like
you know, with this next project we're doing, We're gonna
get that moment. But yeah, no, you you answer the
question to me, would would you? And I'm just gonna
give this for you. When I remember sitting with your

(01:46:02):
van and I was I was talking I think it
was your trumpet player or something. I was talking to
it and we're talking about UM, just how this gig
that the the late night game affected your whole ship,
and he was like, it's a different thing. You know,
we got we got dental and medical, I got the

(01:46:24):
best team in the business. Bro. Yeah, And I'm it
dawned on me at that point. I was like, wow, Yeah,
that's that's some real ship you could and and what
you have done with the platform. You know, even when
I was so I think I saw you and just
telling you how genuinely happy I was to see you
win UM at night, even though it was really crowded

(01:46:46):
with that bullshit that happened. But you know, but you
I was just really because I kind of know your journey,
you know, you know and and and I know even
some of it even true Scott, because when I was
in Miami with Scott and just kind of see how
the whole ship go and just know your journey being
on an m c A and just to see what
you have done with the platform. You know what I mean,

(01:47:10):
it is it is just commendable and I just want
to take that time on to say, you know what
I mean, it has not gone unnoticed. Thank you. Man, dude,
this is this has been I'm not blowing smoking whatever
like and I'm not even trying to trying to kick
it like, oh well a little expectation, no, but man,

(01:47:31):
like you, I need to. I gotta tell the world
like you are. You're a historian, like right now, history
and misinformation is like for me, that's like almost job one,
like uncovering history, making sure that you know, we we
know our culture and that finding Grio's finding Grio's exactly.

(01:47:53):
So this this is a very important episode of course,
Love Supreme, and I thank you for doing this for us, man,
Thank you, thank you. I appreciate it having Feronticcolo Sugar, Steve. Yeah,
I'm paid Bill this Love Supreme. Another classic under the Bus,
under the Hood and the Notch. I don't know, like
the Proper Club. What should I say, Steve, I don't know,

(01:48:15):
I'm you know. Shaggy is a Christmas album yeah. Yeah,
it's a Christmas album of dancing. Because when we were young,
all we all we got a Christmas was that Bing
Crosby Christmas record, and my grandmother killed me with that ship.
And it was like, I'm like, and ain't nothing Bing

(01:48:38):
Crosby singing Ain't nothing was looking like because I'm in Jamaica.
There's no wit no, you know what I mean, there's
no there's no kind of class and chimney, there's no
none of that. It don't look like my Christmas. So
I wanted to do an album that looked like how
my Christmas Christmas, which which was ragging up in Chris

(01:49:00):
Christmas in the Islands, and those songs that's on that record.
And I got from Neo to to Ding Dong to
Junior Reid to Bound to Killer, everybody else singing Bound
to Killer beat him out. Everybody shouldn't see uh. All
of them is on this record singing all versions of
our dance of Christmas records, Christmas songs. You know, I mean,

(01:49:24):
it ain't Mariah carry Ship, but you know you can't
do it. We can smoke do it. Brother, Thank thank
you man, I appreciate you for doing this. The salad
and talking to us so much. Man. Alright, alright, we'll

(01:49:45):
see all the next go around, of course. Sup What
above Supreme is a production of I heart Radio. For

(01:50:10):
more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.

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