Sophia Chang

Sophia Chang tells her story of being an Asian woman working behind-the-scenes in hip-hop, and why she’s the “Baddest Bitch In The Room”.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quess Love SUPREMEA is a production of I Heart Radio.
Suprema Subprema, Roll Call, Suprema Suprema roll Call, SUPREMAE Suprema
roll Call, Suprema Suprema roll Call. What's love and Crew? Yeah,

(00:25):
next hour you stuck with Yeah, Sophia Chain, Yeah, ain't
nothing sa Suprema roll call, Supremau Subma roll call. My
name is Sugar, Yeah, good afternoon. Yeah, from the baddest
yeah in this room. Suprema roll call, sup Suprema roll call.

(00:55):
It's light Yeah, and the bad ist bitch. Yeah, you
know what I mean. It's Sophia bad because we both
speak French roll. I want to root for that role role.
My name is Boss Bill. Yeah. If you're wondering who, Yeah,
Oh my grind to be the badest Bill in the room.

(01:19):
So much roll call, Sma roll call. My name is
Sofia and I'm the baddest bitch in the room. Yeah.
And I think it's really important that you understand it's
I'm not I'm not first because I was road car Rod. Wait,

(01:52):
is this a first for QLs? Were you about to
give a dissertation? It was about to curse? I'm allowed
to curse. Okay, good because you sound effects for you
beautiful ladies, and tell welcome to another exciting episode of
Quest of Supreme. I'm your Emperor Quest Love Emperor. Yeah

(02:13):
with me today is my Supreme team. We have a
blue belt experts showgun Sugar Steve. Yeah, and we got
our red belt twin tongue sword since over here. And
of course, uh, the man who runs it all keeps
us in line, black belt Boss Bill. Where's my killer
tape at all? Right? So, for me, a lot of

(02:38):
my favorite episodes that we do a Quest of Supreme
and that we conduct, my favorite ones are always the
behind the scenes episodes in which we kind of poking
pride and dissect the process from the perspective of the
person who's usually behind the scenes, you know, the person
that keeps the wheels turning behind the scenes, not necessarily
in front of the camera or the microphone. So I

(03:01):
would say that Sophia Chang is definitely a legend in
these circles. For the past thirty plus years, she's been
near and dear to the soundtracks of our lives, especially
that of the Shalloon Variety. Her expertise and knowledge was
key in the prime days of keeping the Wu Tang caravan,
going be at A and R, managing building labels and management.

(03:22):
Uh Sophia Chang and her legendary Gucci Fedor, which is
actually not here today. I have the head. I was
about to say that that's your trade board. She's basically
seen it all. Now she's ready to share her story.
Her exclusive audible memoir, entitled The Baddest Bitch in the
Room navigates and takes you on a journey through one
of the most creative periods of music. Timeline, Ladies and gentlemen,

(03:45):
please welcome our guests on course Love Supreme Sophia Chang,
Thank you, Thank you, very glad to see you. Kind
of jealous, like you you're killing it with the merch,
like five books, and I think that I just made
like one T shirt, Like, yeah, I'm kind of I've

(04:07):
been kind of scheming on this jacket even though you
know I'm not. Maybe this jacket. They may be another
one too that I haven't even worn yet. Got to
talk to there you go, let's talk to us. A jacket.
See what is that on the back? It says mother lover,
hustler warrior, Hustle Warrior, I'll see that. Um well, I'll

(04:30):
start at the top asking why did you feel at
this point in your career now is the time to
share your story? And what do you think we can
learn from your journey? Uh so a mirror. I'm sure
you were told this for years to For years people
said to me, you got to write a book. You
got to write a book. You know, because of our
proximity to what we do, you're actually an artist. I

(04:51):
was artist approximate and I just couldn't wrap myself around
how that was not an exercise in narcissism and you
know what am I going to do? Talk about? Oh?
I hung out here, I did this, and I was
that's not interesting to me. But when I started working
at Universal, and I took on a number of mentees
like you built straight out of college twenty two right,
and they were all women, and I understood that my

(05:12):
vast and varied experience, particularly as a working mother, as
a working single mother, could be instructive. Then I was like, Okay,
if I can be of service to people, then I'll
step into the spotlight. But before that, I simply wasn't interested.
So you just wanted to strictly stay behind the scenes,
and I did. I did, I was, you know, don't

(05:32):
look at the one behind the curtain. I I skirted
the red carpet. I never wanted to be in the interviews.
I never wanted any of that. Um, And now you know,
I'm going to be everywhere. But in terms of what
people can glean from my memoir, I mean, what I
say is that my memoirs for anybody who ever felt undervalued, underheard,

(05:54):
under seen, anybody who said yes in the face of
so many no you know, anybody who kind of pushed
up against whatever confines were placed on them, in any
boxes that were placed on them, and anybody who dared
to tell their story. And the lessons that I hope
people can glean is that I think that what you
will gather is that I'm pretty fearless. Now. Granted I

(06:17):
have always had a middle class safety net, so it
gives you a privilege to be a little bit more
fearless than others. Um, but I got fired, I got hired,
I quit many many times over my you know, my
LinkedIn profile is like reading one in peace. Um, it's
you know, it's just a matter of I think it's
really important to pursue your passion, and for first gen

(06:40):
Asian immigrants, that is really not something that we're taught
to do, right, to pursue your passion exactly we are,
So it is so narrowly prescribed lawyer, doctor, scholar, engineer, right,
And if you want to stray from this path, it's very,
very difficult. And I understand now as a mother, but

(07:01):
also looking at my parents and thinking of the sacrifices
that they made as immigrants, leaving everything they knew behind
and coming to Canada. In my case, they don't really
want to hear me say I want to be a sculptor, right,
because in their mind they're like, we that we didn't
leave everything we know and we love so that you
could go do this profession that we see as kind

(07:23):
of unsafe in a way. Right, Are you the only
child or an older have an older brother? Did he
follow the family? Did he did? But he's also extremely
passionate about it. My brothers, he saw Chang. He's a
tenured English professor, a vassor. He's the tense, smartest people
I know, and that's his passion. So French lit was
my passion until I heard the message and I went

(07:48):
I was curious about how French lit became your passion.
And I was reading about that, and I was like,
he's in Canada, right, Yeah, but that that that still
doesn't mean that becomes your passion to study in college
and speak it fluently because you are well I I
what I will say is that I'm fluent in speaking
English with the French checks, which is far more interesting

(08:09):
and much more fun. Uh. You know, I grew up
in a family of academics. My father, god rest his soul,
was a mathematician, you know. Again, my brother became a professor.
My mother was a librarian. So I grew up in
a household where everybody was reading, you know, and my
parents were reading the classics in English, which I think
is extraordinary. And again, because it was just always assumed
that I would follow suit, it didn't occur to me

(08:31):
to think outside of that paradigm. So that was the suit,
that was that was within the suit. Right. So now
do they understand, Well, I know your father isn't with
us anymore, but your mom that she noted, you're a
pioneer because like you said, you you said, one of
the first Asian woman in hip hop. That's a pioneer
because they are a lot now I wonder, I don't
think my mother would describe as a pioneer. And to

(08:52):
be honest with yes Um for thirty two years up
until right now when she can actually tell her friends
that her daughter wrote a book. My mother couldn't tell
you what I did. There's no way there, Like she
wouldn't understand what it means, Like what does it mean
to do A and R? My mother was born in
the North Korea. You know what I'm saying, Like she's

(09:13):
not she needs the guys, like, but it was the
moment when she met she did and they were all
really gracious and she yeah, she met a bunch of
the artists that I managed. Dude, Like, I know, people
don't understand me kind of collectively, I roll whenever whenever
I mentioned that it took me two albums to tell
my dad that I was in the roots. What. Yeah,

(09:36):
But it's that that fear of wanting to disappoint your
parents or not wanting to disappoint your parents. And you know,
like my dad was busting his ass since I was
five to put me in private school, like to go
his route. And so for you to like sneak out
of it. To do something you want to do is hard.

(09:56):
So like when did you Well, first of all, what Vancouver?
What was the environment like before I know that you
come to Jesus moment was hearing the message by Grand
Master Flash and the Furious Five. But before then, what
was your life generally like in Vancouver? So it was
very comfortable. You know, Vancouver is beautiful and it's green

(10:17):
and lovely. Again middle class went to went to public schools.
But I was very much a yellow girl in a
white world who wanted to be white, no question. I
was born in n and so when I'm ten, right
and I'm coming of age, so to speak, everything I
see in the media, whether it's television, film, commercials, or magazines,

(10:41):
is whiteness. Every every representation of beauty and power and
sex appeal is white. And so I wanted to be
white and to be frank I kind of wonder how
does a person of color growing up in that not
want to be white? Right? And as I shared this story,
I that so many people say to me I felt

(11:02):
the exact same way. And so I was, you know,
I'm watching these shows, in these movies, and I yeah,
it was um you know, I grew up getting called
chink jap gook for sure. I got you know, Chinese,
Japanese dirty knees, look at these all of that stuff,
because racism then was just simply not as codified, and

(11:23):
so kids would be in your face. And the thing
that I learned very early on too, was you're learning
this from somewhere right right, and you're probably learning some
of it from your parents. Maybe they're not teaching you
that charming little song, but they are somehow instilling in
you um, or rather not instilling in you the you know,

(11:44):
the virtue that you shouldn't be a shitty person and
judge people but you know, and make prejudgments about about
somebody based on their skin. So you were just in
an isolated community. You weren't and you weren't amongst like
your family, and there was never I'll get my cousins
of you up or not. Yeah, no, it wasn't. It
wasn't really like the hat Um. We weren't that isolated

(12:05):
because my parents were part of a burgeoning Korean community.
But we were all immigrants. Everybody's parents spoke with accents, right.
We all ate food that looked and smelled and tasted different.
All of our parents had quote unquote funny names. So
there were all of these things, all of these markers
that clearly indicated that we were other. And the world

(12:31):
never stopped telling us that we were other, whether it
was making fun of my parents names again, saying something
about our food. Thank you white people for now acknowledging
the kimchies is super food. And that you think that
you think you envilaged, you think you invented bone broth,
I don't think so. Um, you know, all of the
all of these things that kind of diminished right who

(12:52):
who we were. And you know, I've been thinking a
lot lately about visibility and erasure, and I think that
any of us who live on the margins understand what
it is like to be systematically and institutionally erased. And
so in in kind of denying my parents history, their heritage,

(13:13):
their culture and making fun of it, to me, you
are diminishing and you are erasing them. And I certainly
I didn't have this language when I was a child,
but I really felt that I was that I would.
You know, in making somebody feel other, you are necessarily
making them feel lesser. I see was Sophia your birth

(13:35):
name or that's a good question. No. Um, so everybody
in my extended family has a Korean name. I was
the first person in my family born outside of Korea,
and my father chose to name me after a Polish
mathematician and that was a conscious decision on his part. Okay, yeah,

(13:56):
I see. So uh not many people know this about Vancouver. Um,
besides having one of the best most adventurous ice cream
polos of all time. Shout out to Lacasa Gelato over
five hundred flavors. They didn't pay for that plug. Sorry,
but you know, um, not many people know that the

(14:21):
national anthem of hip hop was created in Vancouver and
Mushroom Studios. Um, the incredible Bongo bands Apache was actually
created in Mushroom Studios and Vancouver. Holy shout. I didn't
know that. That's amazing and mushrooms amazing more, you know.

(14:45):
So yeah, so for me, it's not shocking at all
that your passion for hip hop culture because I'm sure
that you know, people Vancouver, how did you find that moment?
But you know, the national anthem of hip hop was
was born there, So tell us about that moment where
you heard the message and you know, for a lot

(15:07):
of us that were around in real time, like, the
message was definitely one of the besides rappers delight. To me,
the message was one of the first what I call
war the world's moment where you stare at the speaker
and you're wondering, what the hell is this like? What
was that experience like for you? And how did that
transform you? I want to talk about that, and then
I want to ask you about your experience. I'd be

(15:28):
very curious to hear about your experience the first time
you heard it too. Um. So for me, you know,
all I'm seeing around me is whiteness, and then I'm
seeing yellowness because there are Asian immigrants there. There are
lots of Chinese and Vancouver um. And then there are
some brown folks meaning South Asians, right, But I have
no exposure to black folks and Latin X folks. And again,

(15:49):
all the representations of people of color are coming through
the media, and that at the time and still largely
is the case, is who the white mail lens now?
And and I also wasn't because I grew up in Vancouver.
I'm listening to top forty radio, I am listening to
white music. I have no exposure to this remarkably robust
and rich tradition of gospel, R and B jazz, none

(16:10):
of that. I'm not exposed to any of it. So
when I hear the message, I'm in twelfth grade. There's
this kid, Ray, this Greek kid. He he loved music,
and he brings this twelve inch record to school. We're
in the lunch room. Um, we're in this music room
at lunchtime, and he he puts on the record. Now,
the thing that I always loved was dancing, and so

(16:33):
but I listened to disco. Actually, to be fair, UM,
I always loved dancing. And so immediately the beat hits
me in the solar plexus, right, so I have a
vistle response, and then I hear the lyrics and I
just think, I I don't even know what I was thinking,
but I remember I found it so compelling, and in retrospect,

(16:57):
when I think about it, I think it's because it's
the first time. And again I didn't certainly didn't have
this language. It's sixteen seventeen that I heard people of
color talk about themselves and represent their own world as
opposed to white Hollywood saying this is what brown people
yellow people, black folks do right and I and and

(17:20):
also there was a sense of urgency and anger and
pride that resonated with me really deeply, because again, being
a yellow girl growing up in a white world who
wants to be white, I didn't feel pride. I felt
shame and embarrassment, right, And so I hear the message
and then I think wow. And also I'm a French major,

(17:43):
so I'm a literature major, and I studied poetry, and
I knew it was poetry. There was no part of
me that was I don't understand why people don't think
it's poetry. I think it's poetry, and I think it's literature.
And then and then I see the run DMC video
for King of Rock, so I've only heard the message.
And then I see King of Rock and I'm like,
oh my god, you know, you know, and just the

(18:09):
exactly the b Boys stance and just this claiming of me,
and this is who I am. And I will not
let anybody else define me, nor will I let anybody
else tell you who I am. I'm fucking telling you
who I am. That was revelatory. But I'd love to
ask you because the message is the first song that

(18:31):
I heard, right, certainly not the first hip hop song
that you heard. What struck you as being different about it?
About the message? All right's upen to that point? Um,
of course, Like I was eight when Rappers a Light
came out, so that was just what the hell is this?
And the second time I had that moment was not

(18:54):
many people write about, Um, the Adventures of Grandmaster Flash
and the Furious The Ventures a Grandmaster Flash on the
Wheels is steel basically the first record that demonstrates cutting.
So I'm trying to decipher how this noise is made?
And can I do this on my dad's thing, you know,
weapons and all that ship so um, but with the

(19:16):
message stop scratching my record, right, I would say that,
um sitting in my dad's card and it came on
the radio and even he had to take a pause.
But like, but everything in that song hit me because
I didn't know none of what none of those street

(19:38):
terms were. I didn't know what a pimp was. Like
my six year old cousin had to tell eleven year
me like I was, like she had to get a
pip like last night and the pips she couldn't make
it on her home yeah, but literally everything like you know,
in front of the train and I'm like, wait, they're
pushing people on the train platforms and Midnight Trained Georgia

(20:00):
platform But to me, to me, the last minute of
that song when they got arrested, Yo, that's scared the
ship out me. And then that's that was that was
a moment where I feel like the first father and
son talk really happened, where my dad told me like,

(20:26):
you know, that could be you, that that might be
your cousins, that could be the points and just the
whole like you know, my first lecture about police came
because that song. I was like, wait, why why are
they getting arrested? And what What's what's going on here?
Like you don't remember the ending? Like what is that
a game? Do nothing? Like I wasn't old enough to

(20:50):
understand when Stevie Wonder did that on Living for the City,
But hearing that that definitely, I'll say the last minute
of the message was such just a paradigm shift in
my life. That's where I was talld taught fear the
police and whatever you do like straight up you know

(21:11):
all that stuff. So yeah, that that affected me in
ways that I can't even imagine definitely my father's So
I really hope they know how they impacted different. Yeah,
I tell them all the time, when you know, whenever
I see them, how that is. That's that's amazing. Thank
you for sharing. It really seems like from so many
of the interviews that we've done here that the message

(21:34):
is like the the equivalent of the Beatles uh Ed
Sullivan performance. You know, the people who saw that or
people who heard that, that's when their life changed. Well,
I mean Ed Sullivan, Ed Sullivan, I'm in TV. I
mean the way viral riyal odness is now with YouTube.

(21:54):
Like everyone watched the Ed Sullivan Show on Sunday nights
at nine pm on CBS. So if you had the
platform of being on the Ed Sullivan Show, um, your
career was made. And the Beatles made their American debut
on The Ed Sullivan Show and everything changed after that.

(22:16):
Like you think my parents was watching? Now? Did they
have a television? Were they born? You just wouldn't be difficult,
don't you, Like No, I just don't think. I don't
think that that was well. I mean, here's the thing,
my relationship with the Beatles, Steve, I was just saying
that no, no, no, Actually, I'm kind of with you.
My relationship with the Beatles. Actually I knew all the

(22:40):
black artists who covered the Beatles before I even got
into the Beatles. So it took a lot of unpacking
at the age of fifteen and realized, like, oh, Gladys
Night and the Pips didn't do that song on first
and Bill Withers didn't do this song on first and wait,
Stevie Wonder didn't do we can work about and not
for nothing, our househals were different in a way. That's
like my I asked my mom, you wasn't at what stock?
She was like, girl, what the fun? No, no, I

(23:05):
get it. But I mean the Beatles definitely impacted a
lot of music lovers, not just there their target demographic,
but you know, you were even if you were black,
you were watching at Sullivan Show. Um, so, how when

(23:32):
did you make your move to America? Like I was.
I was twenty two and I was literally writing out
my graduating essay and I went straight to the airport.
I skipped graduation. We were just talking Bill and I
were just talking about this, so anxious to get back
to New York. So I have to I have to
give a little bit of context. So as a French major,

(23:54):
first of all, living in Mancouver, I knew I wanted
to break out of Vancouver, and as a French major
maybe in right of course it's And then I went
to Paris and I met the French and I was like,
oh no, I'm not doing this. And then in my
final year of college, I came to New York and
I met Joey Ramon. I thought he was Johnny. I
called him Johnny Joey God rest his soul. And I

(24:16):
had I had heard the message. I had visited New
York and I knew, okay, this is where I wanted
to be as a French, right, I was like a
like a fish to water. So when I moved here, Um,
I stayed with a legendary rock critical named Legs McNeil
and his girlfriend and they introduced me that she got
me a job working at Paul Simon and then I

(24:38):
kind of seven and then exactly on the you're so
card you are you really are like this? How do
you keep it on your head? Um? Yeah, so it
was he's coming off of the world wide Graceland tour.
So do you have a regular job during the times.
I'm trying to figure out you said. So my regular

(24:59):
job was im distant to his tour managers coming off
of grade before. How you I think I might have
fund like I had a little job working at a
studio um. But also at that time, yeah, New York
was not as expensive when me and my friends talked.
So this is in the late eighties, early nineties, right
when me and my friends talked about it. Where we
lived in that time, none of us could afford to

(25:22):
live there now, no fucking way, we're part of it.
So I was living well. I lived on the Upper
West Side with Columbia students for a while, but then
I lived downtown at fourteenth and seventh, and then I
lived at the Archives, which is this really beautiful white
Glove building, elevator, Dorman Building in the West Village. Not
a shot could I afford to live there now? Not
a shot. I mean when I was, when I was

(25:43):
coming up, nobody lived. Nobody lived in Brooklyn. Sure as fun,
nobody lived in Queens. And now all of my friends
live in Brooklyn and Queens because we can't afford Manhattan anymore.
Like nobody couldn't afford the city anymore. So you know,
I can't afford the apartment. I moved to Brooklyn department.
It's really tough. So but there are also three of

(26:04):
us living in a three hundred and sixty square foot studio.
But we were like in our early twenties, and who
gives it was probably like a hundred dollars. What was
the What was the environment like back then, because it's
I would imagine that mid late eighties was more that
was post antitaria, so like the first era of Downtown

(26:25):
New York scene, So what was the scene into um So,
what was really amazing about the scene at the time
was that it was really small and I'm not going
to say insular, because it was an insular. It was
small and it was focused, but it was also very
inclusive and we were all at the same clubs. So

(26:48):
you had DJs, m C, graph artists, B boys all there,
but you also had managers, a and our publicist agents, attorneys.
I mean, you had every single sector of the industry there,
because in seven hip hop is still a relatively nascent industry,
right and so and again it's localized and it's centralized,

(27:09):
and you had DJs like Red Alert, you know, and
we would go anywhere where Red was spinning. You had
Clark spinning, we would go anywhere that Clark was spinn
So there were there were different clubs. There was a
there was a moving club called there was pay Day,
and it was these three promoters, it was Chuck Beaver

(27:29):
and Patrick Marxie, and they would they would move around
and they started to name so they named the clubs
after chocolate bars. So there was pay Day. There was
a hundred grand, right, so they were named after a
bunch of chocolate bars. And they could roam. Now this
was at a time where you could do this. No
way could you do this now? Not a shot right,

(27:51):
Like I lived down in the Lower East Side, and
I'm pretty sure that one of the clubs that I
went to back in the day was housed in one
of the high schools. Like they rented out high school auditoriums,
they rented out abandoned like Chinese restaurants and stuff like that.
And it was so amazing because again this is before
the internet, there's no and we would they would they
would hand out flyers and then we would just all

(28:13):
call each other and leave messages on each other's answering machines.
Google it and we would, you know, we would just
make sure that we were all there and there was
a feeling of community because we were all there for
the music. This is where records were broken. Clark Kent
singlehandedly broke Color Me Bads. I want to sex you up,

(28:35):
Sex you up. I remember being there. I think it
was actually Diddie's house when Puffy had a club over
here on Street. And you know, none of us had
heard the song. Literally, none of us had heard the song.
He had a white label. And the opening strains come on,
and you know, you're on the dance when you're dancing,
and then you just stopped because you don't know the record,
and the record came on, and then and then the

(28:57):
bee came in and we were like, oh ship. And
years later at Universal I was in the and or
doing a and our Admint Island. Sam, who was one
of the members of Color Me Bad, said that they
were in the club that night and that was the
first time they heard their record played. Sam, was that George,

(29:17):
Michael Vanilla, Three James or the Kenny G Kenny G.
How did you know? Because that you should be calling
me bad fan. I got their two albums broke Yeo albums.
I didn't even know the time and Chance the second
one Time and Chance that join so they So it

(29:39):
was a really really close It was a really really
close knit community. And you know, it was such a privilege.
Tingle make me feel bad for color. What's side? Do
you know? Right right before Fat Cat or Fantastic they
talk about time and chance right, all right, so good,

(30:01):
But but it's this beautiful community. And um, I was
welcomed into the community and I was embraced, and I'm
really grateful for that. And that was the privilege because
hip hop obviously was not of my making, you know, um,
it was not my world. And yet hip hop was like,
come in sof and you know the first people were

(30:23):
Crazy Legs and DJ Scratch at the New Music seminar. Yeah,
Legs as the story where he's like, I'll never forget
the first time I saw you. I was looking across
going who is that little Asian woman that knows all
the words? The brand Nubian stepped to the rear? So

(30:44):
you were there, Like I'll say, in early nineties and nine.
See that's the era are the era that people mostly
tell us about. This show is like Latin Quarter and
all that stuff. But kind of that S O B.
S period. I don't hear a lot about So I
don't l Q and all that predated me, for sure,

(31:04):
I did. I never went to Latin Quarter and never
went to Danceterium. Most of my friends all, certainly my
friends grew up in New York did um so. But
you know the other thing that's interesting about that era
is that so you have these small roaming clubs, right,
but you also have mega clubs and they're all gone. Palladium, dorm, tunnel, right,

(31:24):
the tunnel, limelight, these places where you go to the tunnel. Yeah,
I did at a certain point, though I stopped because
I think Chris Letty God rest of Soul. I think
Letty was like, don't come. So it's like, don't come.
Can I ask you a question? I don't know if
this is uncomfortable, but I'm just as I'm listening, because
you are to be a pioneer in ways. Um, because

(31:46):
you were in the club, you knew all the lyrics
and stuff like that. How did you navigate around the
inn word and how did you realize that dad was
like a hot button Because you're from Vancouver and there weren't.
We weren't around to be like, well, this ain't cool
and this is cool. And because even before hip hop,
I grew up knowing that, even though I was called chink,
jap and gook, I knew that the N word, it's

(32:11):
it's used against people the way that those words were
used against me. So even if it's in the lyrics
and my favorite artists are saying it, it never felt
right to me ever, because I do know it's that
weird thing where it has been made is different than
and than most slurs because it had been made cool
in a way so that I was like and other

(32:32):
others had issues dealing with that, like I don't get it.
It's so cool it is A yeah, I yeah, I yeah,
I can't yeah. So what was your first inside industry
job as far as hip hop is concerned. Where did
you first? It was the job doing A and R
at Jive. So I met the Captain A K. Shawn
Kirosov god dress his soul uh. He was doing an
R drive. He signed a tropic called Quest and he said,

(32:55):
I'm moving to the West Coast because at the time
the West Coast was had a burgeoning hip hop scene,
right he said, Southie, I'm moving to I'm moving to
l A. I think you should interview from my job.
So I interviewed for his job with Barry weis very
very very smart president of Jive Records, and Barry gave
me the job, although he did tell me he said
the second I walked in the door, he went, oh,
she'll never get the job. What what is Barry like?

(33:17):
I meet many people that work with him. What is
he like as because really, I mean, Barry was to
me he was almost deaf jam before death jam. Because
he's the one that signed like Philly artists, took the
entire pop part label and made it his own and
all that stuff before you know, Russell and Rick Ott established.

(33:41):
What was he like? Just Barry? I think I believe
Barry is a Cornell grad. Barry is also the son
of Hi Wise, and Hi was also in the music business.
And Barry is so smart, so smart. You know, you're
in rooms with people and as soon as they start talking,
you go, oh, holy ship, you're so smart. He was all.

(34:01):
He is also one of the funniest people I know. Like, literally,
if Barry was sitting here in thirty seconds, he could
have me laughing. He did incredible impersonations. He was amazing
as a boss. He could be pretty exacting. Um, and
you know Barry. So they were all these trades back
in the day. There's Billboard, but then there's Gavin, there's
R and R, there's F m QB. There are all
these trades, and all of these trades, many of them

(34:24):
have local record sales reports, right, Barry would go through
every single one, and if he saw that an artist
sold fifty copies of a cassette in Kansas, he'd be like,
call that person. So you're absolutely right. I mean Barry
signed Short. I mean not not Barry, but you know
j I've signed Short, they signed Spice One. You know,
they had their tentacles out really far. And I think

(34:45):
that was Barry's vision to understand really early on that
hip hop would expand far beyond New York. So he
I loved working for Barry. I learned so much. Who
did you? What artists were you under? Did you sign
anybody a jib during your tering? I signed kush Nickins
Casual Souls and Mischief. I signed an amazing artist named
Miss Kilo from the West Coast. Unfortunately I left and

(35:08):
that that didn't never happen. So those are the artists
I said, yes, oh what a memory, Oh my god.
And then I worked with um Tribe and carrass One
and you g K and you know a bunch of others.
I mean, they had an amazing roster. How did you

(35:29):
guys all right? So speaking of you g K um,
you know kind of the globalization or no that not
the globalization? Were I guess hip hop really going national?
How how are you guys able to because even before
death champ again, you guys were first and going to
other terries, not in New York signing artists, first with

(35:52):
Philly with Jeff and Will and Steady being school E
and then expanding out. So what was it about you
g K and Spice one and well too short? And
it wasn't volume tend also no, no, he was on
our c a proper But what was it about those artists,

(36:13):
especially with you g K? I think for I didn't
sign any of those, I can't take credit for signing
any of them, but I think a lot of it was,
like I said, I think a lot of it was
seeing sales figures. I think a lot of it was
understanding that. But it couldn't be that alone, right, So
then we get we get an indication that there is
a buzz around a certain artist, and I would literally
call a record store and say, so, you have this

(36:35):
artist name so and so, how is he selling? How
is she selling? It was always a he though, how
is he selling? And then whoever was running the local
record store would give me a sense of what was
going on there, and if it sounded promising, I would
then say, can you please put me in touch with
his manager? And then it would kind of go from there.
But you g k um, how did you g k

(36:57):
come to us? I don't remember, but everybody had. It
couldn't simply it couldn't simply be data, which is different
from now because a lot of artists, I think now
can get signed purely off of data. It was data driven,
but then it was also talent, you know, and you
know there was something so unique Godress of Soul, Pimpsy,
about Pimp and about Bun and about what they were presenting.

(37:18):
Now we had the ghetto boys from Texas as well, right,
But you g K I don't know. I just remember
the first time I heard them, they felt really new
and fresh, but dirty and grime in a way that
I really appreciated, you know. Um, so it was probably
a combination of the two. Well, this is what I
always ask and rs when they come on the show.

(37:40):
Can you name three acts that got away that you
really that you had a chance to sign or that
you had like the sort of buzz on before they
got became a thing and they went elsewhere. Um well,
everybody's going to tell you because we all had the demo,
but there's no way I was going to be able
to sign them. Um Doss Effects, We're at my house

(38:04):
four days a week and didn't get to sign them. Yeah,
House of Pain. I was friends with Mugs from back
in the Cypress Hill days. Um wootang gravedigg as I
wanted to sign it wasn't able to sign. But the
funny thing about the House of Pain story is that
again I was friends with Mugs and I had the demo.
And now the thing that was really frustrating to Clive Calder,

(38:25):
the owner of Drive Records, was that Dos Effects and
House of Pain went pop. Now before summertime, none of
Drives hip hop artists went pop, right, I think that, Um,
oh my god, what what's that? Little boy? Group. They
did a song it was five Little Boys. Oh I'm

(38:46):
bugging that, I'm not remembering. Anyway, they had a song
about kiss and that was the first I feel like
that was the first number one Billboard song for um
the Kissing Game. So it really got under Clive skin
that I wanted to sign Dos Effects and I wanted
to have signed House of Pain, and they were they
were big pop hits. And so after House of Pain,

(39:07):
I have to jump around came out. He said, you
know he's South African Sophia. Come down to my office.
Do you do you still have the House of Pain demo?
And I said yeah. And so in his mind, when
I played the demo, the you know, the noise, I

(39:27):
always say that Muggs was kind of the the the
next generation of the Bomb Squad, springing the noise. Um
that that he was convinced that when I played him
the demo original demo, that that sound wasn't in the demo,
but it was. And in fact, when I say that's

(39:48):
not it, it is it is. It is all right.
We will have we will have arguments, all right, So
the big debate. Here's the deal. So it's not Prince's
voice is Rosie Queen's We've Been Haven't that? I didn't
know that. I didn't know what. Okay, So Muggs and

(40:10):
them keep saying that it's Junior walk in the All
Star But I went distorted, and so, but what are
they they're saying that it's Junior Walking the All Stars.
I forget the name of the song, but I'm still

(40:31):
maintaining that it's Princess Get Off intro. So essentially, when
I went back to it, so I played it for
Clive and he was like, oh damn it. And when
I went back to Muggs, I said, how close is
this to the version, the demo version to the one
that got on the radio. And he said, it's the
version that got on the radio. There's virtually no distance between.
So you're saying that if they lost the yelp scream

(40:52):
all right horn line, that you guys would assigned it
like that was you know what? He said? What Clive
was saying was and he went House of Pain, went
jump Around, became a big pop hit. He was so
frustrated that he hadn't let me sign it. And he said, Sophia,
when you played me the demo, that sound was not
in there. Do you see what I'm saying? So he

(41:13):
was like, do you still have made a difference? That
is funny. So wait, at this point had you started
the relationship, will will yet know? Okay, that's why you
said summer So okay, Well that is weird of all,
the label like JIB was just not a label that
signed any member of the wood, like not even inspected deck.

(41:37):
So my guess is they were too expensive. Really My guess, yeah,
neither Ja Tommy Boy. Yeah, they already messed up with Yeah,
but they had they had a chance, right, So I'm sorry,
I'm just catching up on budget wise. Budget wise, Jive

(41:57):
really didn't have a they were we were. We were
a scrappy little independent and we were we had to
be really competitive in other ways. That is so weird
because I, at least with the look of it and
the ads that you guys purchased and the artists that
you represent it, I was always I never looked at
you guys as Tommy Boy underling or even a rough

(42:21):
house boutique label, like I considered you guys aute. No,
I think that we were. I think we were major,
major players. But that had to do with the fact
that everything else other than big advances compensated for that, right,
So I'm I I was competing for hieroglyphics. That was
a competitive deal. Well, I can't offer as much as
a major label can. But what can I offer? We'll

(42:42):
look at our roster, right, And what people need to
know is that talent can be an amazing talent magnet.
So when we can talk about the facts. So those
boys are from from the Bay there, from the East Oakland,
and we have Spice one and we have too short,
and we have poo right, and we so they So
there is also thinking about who your labelmates are going
to be. And that's how we were. That's how we

(43:03):
were able to be competitive. But it wasn't by spending
a ton of money. I see Wait, I gotta ask,
since you're associated with him, what what effect do you
think that that battle with Sefia had on their momentum? Uh?
So is the Mischief did a infamous battle against Sofia

(43:24):
and on Bay Area radio And all I know is
that that's all we listened to. To me was the
equivalent of if you watch kill Bill when I was
just so bizarre with Lucy Lou Yes, wait, wait far well, no,

(43:46):
no, no no, I mean both battles. Actually, I was thinking
of when when Uma Thurman just took out the Crazy eight.
That's what I wouldn't say taken out, but I will
say that Sefia just one like it's for them, and
they had casual so it's like really eight of them
versus one of him, and he just took them all

(44:09):
one by one and we just never I know that
that had an effect on Taik Treke was like I
have to be that good where I can take out
ten mcs like that sort of thing. But I mean,
did that do you think that affected there momentum and
there or yeah they're confidence at all or was it

(44:30):
just like whatever if it did, I didn't see any
sign of that. And also, you know, being around those guys,
you know kung fu, we say sharpen your blade every day,
and at the time when I was around them, and
there's sixteen, seventeen, nineteen years old, they sharpened their blades
all day every day. I mean, to be around them

(44:51):
was to hear them freestyle more than you would hear
them talk. So yes, is there this epic battle and
you know Sophia is dominant, absolutely, But I don't think
that made them kind of shrink and go, oh my god,
we're we're not good anymore. To this day, I don't
think that they that they have any doubt as to

(45:11):
as to their skills. Okay, oh they're still going strong. Yeah.
And I kind of wish Opio didn't cut his hair
for say it again, Say it again. That was like
when he cut his hair, I was just like, man,
they lost their angle, like and me because I was like,
where's the ad I can't one is he now? Which
one is he? For real? I was like, Opio, come on, dude,

(45:35):
like he did a beautiful hair, all right. So I'll
admit when I first saw Protect your Net that was

(45:56):
a little too low budget from me. I saw it. No,
I you know, I've seen it on like a local
like we had our own local uh aj Shine from
w KTU and and Philly had his own like show
the Avenue on Drecksvil University and he would show it

(46:18):
and it was just like, ah, this is so cheap.
I mean, I got it though, But I kind of
feel like people have re contextualized and and sort of
the way that people will talk about Prince's dirty mine,
Like I was never in the beginning, like that sort
of thing. I was like, where are you really so

(46:40):
for you with the with the early wou tang, like
you were truly aboard and you knew that this was
going to be a thing. Yeah. And I also think
that there's a little bit of civic pride going on there,
because simultaneously, if I remember correctly, the West Coast was
on the come up, and so there was a sense

(47:03):
of like New York, we got the ship, right, yeah,
like we you know it's from that's right. And then
you have nine guys and they're from Staten Island and
you're like, how could does anybody care about Staten Island?
And they and they did this thing, and I think
that it wasn't look we you could talk about Rizzus

(47:26):
beats all day long, and I remember what it felt
like to me was I think it impacted me on
so many different levels. So at that point, I'm considering
myself a proud New York or even even though I've
been there for less here for less than a decade,
but it was so New York, right, Like I feel
like Rizz's beats and he describes them as grimy were

(47:50):
this really unflinching look at the dirty underbelly of the city,
and I and then and then you have their rhymes
and he somehow harness is nine guys on what we
used to call a posse track. Right. So now if
we made that record, you would fly somebody the beat
and they'd send you their eight or their sixteen. Right.

(48:10):
But but back in the day, they were all in
the studio. They're all sleeping on Rizzus floor in Staten Island, right,
And so you have this kind of you have this
osmosis happening, and it just felt huge. That's how it felt.

(48:30):
It felt in terms of volume of how many m
c s there were, but also the fact that I'd
never heard beats like rizz Is before. I was like,
oh ship, what is he doing? And I am far
from the musicologist you are, and I could never deconstruct
it the way that you can. But the A and
R and you wasn't thinking like I would think that, yeah,
A and R are thinking fight or flight. I gotta

(48:51):
find the next big thing to keep justifying my job
in my position, So my first thought would be this
is way too low, like on the radio, right, like
that your your inner A and r wasn't already tainted
and taking over your well, what the what tainted it

(49:12):
was the deal they asked for, so none of us
could sign Wouchan Clan right, so it was already off
the table. But it in the same way that the
message hit me viscerally, it hit me viscerally. And remember
I met them really soon thereafter. So it is one
thing to hear the record. It is another thing to

(49:33):
see that really grainy glow fi time going five thousand
video where they're not even I don't even think they're
even all in that video, and then to meet them,
and I think because I had the privilege of being
in proximity to them really really early on before the
first album came out, I it was it was really

(49:54):
really clear to us. Certainly in New York. All of
us knew like, oh, this is gonna blow. It's it's
it's gonna blow. Not necessarily because we thought Protecting Neck
was a commercial song. None of us thought this is
like summertime right, um, but it just felt like this
swell uh you know, I say my memoir, Um there,

(50:16):
this is really great. Victor Hugo quote, which has been
kind of loosely translated as um something like you you
can't fight an idea whose time has come and so.
But literally translated is you can resist an invasion of armies,
you cannot resist an invasion of ideas. But in my

(50:39):
mind they were both. They were this army who had
these incredible ideas and that was all resist vision. Look,
he couldn't have done it with that Woutang, but it
was you know, he was the abbot and that was
his creative genius. So was he the first member that
you met? How did you start working with an organization?

(50:59):
And what we're so her? The Woutang demo loved it.
I became a evangelist. I played it for anybody that
would listen. I was like, listen to it is listen
listen to my shitty little yellow walk sports walkman um
uh and then I uh and but couldn't sign them,
but I was a huge fan. And then the Grave
Diggas demo came across my desk, and the Grave Diggas

(51:21):
he wasn't asking for the same non exclusive so that
was something that I could definitely try to sign, and
I arranged to meet him. Uh and I remember like
it was yesterday. I remember the weather, what I wore
what I ate where we ate like, I remember so
much about it. And in that first interaction, of course
we talked about the Grave Diggs and the parameters of

(51:43):
the deal and the creative vision, but we also talked
about Wu Tang. But you know this as well as
I do. When you get a new conversation with Rizza, um,
it's never just about music. And you know I I've
been saying for a while that to me is the
Bruce Lee of music. And when I say that, I
mean that Bruce Lee was took a lot of different traditions.

(52:07):
Bruce Lee grew up studying wing chun right, and that
is a very traditional kungfort form, but he studied many
other forms and then he made his own form called
ji Kundo. And I kind of feel like that's what
Rizza did, as as have many producers, like kind of
take all of these and not disrespect any of them,
honor them, all of these different musical and sonic traditions,

(52:29):
and then to blend them and to make his own thing.
Now again, many producers have done that. Why I call
him the Bruce Lee of hip hop is because he
is additionally a philosopher, and I do not. I cannot
think of other artists or producers that I think are
true philosophers. And this stems from an intense intellectual, cultural,

(52:55):
and spiritual curiosity. So Riz is the guy that has,
like any artists, traveled the world a number of times over.
But he is also the guy that doesn't go to
whatever city and whatever country and whatever corner of the
world and say, you know, just just find me the
nearest um mcdonald' so I can eat food and I'm
comfortable with He will eat that food right. He will
find out where is the place of prayer and where

(53:17):
is the faith here? What is the language, what is
the culture, and he will immerse himself in that, and
I think it really comes out and everything that he
does now that that's expanded far beyond music. So he
was the first one that I met, and I I
describe it as being, you know, the first time I
met Rizza was like going through many different chambers, and
then after I met him, I met all the rest

(53:39):
of them. And the last one that I met was
dirty God Rescissul. How is it navigating his life? There's
two people on earth that I've met, both of their
tour managers, UH with the Roots organization. Uh, my boy, Silbert,

(54:00):
when we were interviewing him, and my first question was, so,
what qualifications do you have, UM that you feel would
be beneficial to us? And he said one thing. He said,
he says, I've been Public Enemies tour manager for the
last twenty years. Flavor. Flavor has never been late or
missed a show. I was like, hired, You're hired, So

(54:27):
what is the amount of of Jedi mind tricks that
you have to do to keep them organized? So I
could never say that they were never late working with
me at all, or that they didn't miss the show.
But to talk about Dirty first, I call him a son.

(54:48):
I call him a UM. You know, managing old dirty
bastard can certainly seem oxymoronic. But I think that I
did as good a job as anybody could. UM. Look
Asan had an addictive personality, There's no doubt about it.

(55:09):
He was addicted to sex, he was addicted to alcohol,
and he became addicted to drugs. But when I managed him,
he didn't even smoke wheat like I remember him being like, math,
get that ship out of here. I hate the smell
of that. So I knew him before he Um did drugs,
but he did drink a lot, and he did love women,
and so there was a lot of UM. There was
a lot of damage control UM, as you can imagine.

(55:32):
But the thing that I want people to know about
Asan is that he was so smart. He was he
was so smart, and he had such a creative vision.
But he was also intellectually very smart. And he was
really really good with people. He was so winsome, and
he could charm anybody when he wanted to. He was

(55:56):
super protective of me UM, and he was dead loyal.
And I keep quoting my friend Julius On who's a
Nigerian American director who who made this movie earlier this
summer called Luce, and it's about a transracial adoptee UM.
And he said in a Q and A that I
think that every person in this world should be granted
access to the full spectrum of humanity. And I think

(56:19):
that any of us who live on the margins are
not granted access to the full spectrum of humanity. I
think rappers in particular are not granted access to the
full spectrum of humanity. And so what I try to
communicate in my memoir is who were these artists to me,
so I am far from a Woutang expert. I could
not tell you what album, what sequence the albums came

(56:40):
out in, what the names of all the solo none
of that, the samples, any of that. The only thing
that I am an expert on and I am an
expert on this. Who's who they are as men people
to me? And I think that I have a unique
lens into the wouniverse because of who I am, but

(57:02):
also who they allowed me to be and how they
let me come into their world, and I think that
speaks volumes about them. I also managed, so I managed
all three three letter members of Woutang O, D B, R,
z A and g z A. I managed Rizza um
what I call his extracurricular activity. So I did not

(57:22):
manage him as an m C and I did not
manage him as a producer, but I manage him as
a composer and then his beginnings his transition into Hollywood.
Um he yes. So his first his first kid composing
was ghost Dog. That was not me. That was Nemo,
who was very close. I believe he's Jim Jar which
his nephew and Nemo brought into to Jim and then

(57:43):
I kind of picked it up from there. So it
was killed Bill and it was Blade and I believe
it has so plain. Um. So we did that stuff
together and he had already started writing and directing. But
you know, the thing that I say about Rizz is, um,
he is truly living his childhood dream. So when I
was a kid, I wanted to be a doctor. I
wanted to be a fashion designer. I never thought that
I'd be doing this and I love my life. But

(58:05):
Rizza as a child, growing up one of I believe
eleven children of a single mother, growing up in the
projects of Staten Island in Brooklyn, Um, he watched Kung
Fu movies and he imagined and dreamt that he would
one day direct. And now he's directing conferent movies and

(58:25):
he's writing them and he is starring in them. And
I actually don't know anybody else who had this vision.
And he is truly a visionary from when he was
a child. So managing Rizza was a delight. Managing Jisu
was also incredible. I would say that Jis was my
favorite client because, um, and you know Jess like I do.
He's incredibly low key and he's so gracious, and he's

(58:46):
so magnanimous, and he doesn't want to be recognized, and
he doesn't want to be famous. He doesn't want to
be any of those things. And he he is so
um kind and I really love managing him because he
allowed me to transition him into lecturing, and not every
client lets you do that, right, So somebody might say

(59:06):
I thought about it, so, but I don't really want
to do it because there's this thing I do and
I'm so comfortable and I've been doing it for decades
and I'm getting paid and I know how to do this,
whereas lecturing is very very different. You you're basically standing naked.
There are no pyrotechnics, you don't have a hype man,
there's no DJ, there's no lights, there's no sound, and
your and your audience they're not drunk, they're not high, right,
they're just all sitting there and they're looking at you,

(59:28):
and you're standing at a podium and you are speaking.
And literally the first place he um lectured was Harvard.
That's the Korean in me, and literally the first words
out of his mouth were I'm so nervous and that's
just what yeah, yeah, and you know what the same

(59:48):
And you know what, I did the same thing with
Joey Badass and saying he said the exact same thing.
What was I'm just curious what was? What was just
this first lecture? So he spoke about his love of science.
You know he like rises deeply intellectually curious. He spoke
about his love of science. He spoke about his um,
his inspiration and his creative process. Can you can you

(01:00:10):
talk about real quick? In the prologue, I had a moment.
I had a mom where I was jealous of you
and describing the relationship with Wu Tang because of a
situation that happen with method Man and the god Jamal.
And I was jealous because as a woman who's been
in the industry for years, we all know what is like.
You know, you're telling beautiful stories, but at some points,
being that woman in the room can be adversarial, it

(01:00:31):
can be dismissive. Yes, and question that moment of no protection, right,
So I don't know if you want to reiterate that story,
but sure also in a way, I also wanted you
to tell the the opposite of that story when it
wasn't that protection there with method Man, right, I mean,
so when I when I started doing A and R,

(01:00:52):
I wasn't secure around it. Right, I'm thinking, I'm a Korean,
Canadian French lip major, and do I really deserve this
job of being a gatekeeper in an arbiter of a culture? Again,
that is not mine, right and so, But but the
way that hip hop embraced me was really fortifying and
me gave me a lot more confidence, but no, nothing
more than when Wu Tang claimed me. So it was

(01:01:13):
very very early on. I might have met Meth once before.
I go to the studio to see them, and he says, Sophia,
you got to see I just got my video in
UM for method Matt. And so he takes me to
the back lounge, whisks me past everybody, takes me to
the back lounge and he sits me down and he
plugs in the tape and he stands on the wall,
doesn't sit with me, stands against the wall to watch
me because he wants to see my response to the video,

(01:01:35):
and sitting next to the television facing me. So this
gentleman is not watching the screen. He's looking at me
as Meth is is this guy Jamal. So the video
plays and I'm super excited. I'm like, oh my god,
oh my god, oh my god, because I'm already in
love with math. And so the video plays, and as
soon as the video ends, he looks at me and
he says, where are you from? Now, anybody, any person

(01:01:58):
of color, will tell you that's a your question. If
you ask a white person that they're going to be like, oh,
I'm from Columbus right, or or my you know, my
parents are whatever. But this is this is a loaded question.
So I am a petite Asian woman in the inner
inner sanctum of Woutang, of Wu Tang's world, and it
is clear to him, and I could see the calculations.

(01:02:19):
It is clear to him. I'm not sleeping with any
of those boys. He also knows that I don't manage
any of them at this point, I don't A and
R any of them. So who is this? And how
did she get in? And again to this day, when
I'm around Woutang, I am almost always the only woman
in the room and that's a very privileged place where
I sit. So he keeps and so I feign innocence

(01:02:42):
and I say, well, what are you asking me? Where
are you from? I don't really know what that means?
Where are you from? And then I broke and I said, okay, well,
if you're asking where I was born, I was born
in Vancouver. My parents are Korean. If you ask me
where were my parents were from? There from you know, Korea,
if you're asking where I live. But before I could
even finish answering this in this very methodical way, Meth

(01:03:05):
just flew in between us. And I don't know if
you've ever met him in person. He has six four
and he is notoriously the nicest with his hands of
the clan. And yeah, no, no, no, no, no he
can they can all throw the funk down, but Math
and Ghost forget about it. So he flies in between
us and he just expands like the Hulk, and he

(01:03:25):
was like, that's Sophie Chang and she's down with Wou Tang.
She's some shallon motherfucker. Don't you ever who the fuck
are you to ask her where she's from? Don't you
ever disrespect her again? And I was like, oh my god,
Now nobody had ever defended me like this, and I
was it was just this extraordinary moment. But so the

(01:03:51):
demonstration was amazing, But to deconstruct him, what I think
I want people to understand, is he knew exactly what
the funk that guy was saying. Do you know what
I'm saying? He totally understood that it was there was
there was a racial subtext to it, and there was
a gender subtext to it. Right, He didn't give a
ship where I was from because essentially he wasn't asking
a question. He was saying, what then are you and

(01:04:14):
what are you doing here? Because you don't belong here?
I belong here, You don't belong here, and you know,
again wanting to tell people about the humanity of Wu Tang. Now,
Meth has known this guy for I'm sure a long
asked time. This might be the second or third time
he's met me. And his feeling was like, now, be

(01:04:37):
we're not fucking doing that because she's ours. And what
I say about Wu Tang is that, look, I had
several friendships in hip hop and enduring ones that I
have to this day before Wu Tang. I was embraced
and I was welcomed, but Wu Tang claimed me. So
it's the thing that you're talking about me, right, Like,

(01:04:58):
So what I'm saying is that rebody knew that they
were going to be huge, and there were hordes and
hordes and hordes of people surrounding them, and for whatever reason,
they just want like this, you're coming with us. We're
keeping her right here. And I feel that way to
this day that I will never ever leave that breast pocket.
And can I get right now layah me, Bill, Sugar,

(01:05:22):
Steve and other Bill and Fronte are claiming you appreciate
that's beautiful. We'll protect you. Can I also just make
a point to f Y because some people be thinking, oh,
she's she's the Asian woman and the click. So she's
the one that brought the awareness to all the college.
Can you clear that up? Oh? Yeah? No. And first
of all, when I say that I'm I was in
love with Math is the platonic love of my life

(01:05:44):
because Mary forever. Yeah, and he and his wife Tamika
is just this gorgeous, luminous creature that I adored. No,
he's a platonic love of my love. No, no, no, no,
no no. In fact, no, they grew up watching kung
fu movies. It was their escape. But they also you
know the themes of brotherhood and loyalty and defiance and
oppression really resonated with them. And so again going back

(01:06:07):
to it, I'm a white, I'm a yellow girl growing
up in a white world. I want to be white.
I come to New York, I get you know, I
get into the hip hop world, and I understand that
there's another way to be and that is proud of
who you are. And then Wu Tang embraces me, and
it is the first time that I truly see the
beauty and the profundity and the power of my culture

(01:06:28):
because I see it through their eyes azing because they
introduced me to John Woo and Chayan Fat this is
the love of my life. This is my life, um
and kung fu movies. So before that, none of the
folklora you weren't Saturday afternoons one of it, because it
was total cultural denial. For me, it was cultural denial

(01:06:49):
and it was cultural rebellion. And so I start watching
kung fu movies with my girlfriend Maria Mama, whose time
when he's American were like, let's study kung Fu. So
we go around and we're looking, we're looking at all
these different schools and then we hear there's a Shalon
monk teaching kung fu and that's that's like hearing that
quest love is teaching giving drum lessons right, or it's
like here in that Tiger Woods is going to teach

(01:07:10):
you golf down the street. We're like what. So we
hunt him down and we find him and then we
go in there. We talked to him. He speaks Mander
and she speaks Mandarin. He speaks no English. I don't
speak Mandarin. And I go home that night and I
call my parents and I said, I met the man
I'm gonna marry today. I knew empirically, empirically and absolutely,
and then I left the music business. I stopped managing

(01:07:30):
dirty hard right out of the music said he's a
Shalon monk. And they said they said, they were like,
hang on a second. My dad's like, hang on a second.
He looks up. He's like, Shalon monks can marry. I
don't know what the reference. I don't know what reference,
but Bombshi Chang God rest, his soul was right there
with this crazy daughter. And so I leave the music business.
I have I don't even think about it. I run um.

(01:07:52):
His name is Shrien ming I run Yen Minks Temple.
He's a thirty fourth generation Shalon monk. He has a
vision that he wants to replicate the Shalon Temple in America.
I introduced him to Wu Tang. So this I did,
I introduced an actual Shalon makt Wu tank I also
was the person who orchestrated and planned and produced the
tour that brought ris A to Shalon Temple, and he

(01:08:12):
was the first artist in fift years to ever perform
in front of Shalon Temple. Also took him to Wu
Tang Mountain where the abbot of Wu Tang clan met
the abbot of Wu Tang Mountain. And so I created
those historical moments. But had it not been for Wu
Tang Clan, I wouldn't have the two extraordinary children that
I do right now. I wouldn't have an almost twenty

(01:08:33):
five year practice of Shalon kung fu that I did
before I came here. And that's why I was so hungry.
So I am. I am eternally grateful to Woutang because
they brought me back to myself and the most essential
and important and critical way. And so in going back

(01:08:54):
to myself again and going through these chambers with them,
they you know, they brought me around to my own heritage.
And you know what's extraordinary is that Math said this
to me. He said, you know, in a funny way,
we kind of introduced you back to Asian culture. And
I was like, how he's so astute I have I
think Math is like my son. He's a he's a pisces,

(01:09:17):
so he is super in tune with energy and he's
deeply empathetic. And he knew that in the same way
that he knew when Jamal said where are you from?
He understood that this is a hostile state. This is
this is not a question, it's a hostile statement. Wow,
Man's that's stopped playing. Of course, yes, methem Man, we

(01:09:38):
want you on the stop, but I think had stopped gushing.
If we if we get methy Man booked on the show,
she's gonna come dress like have you met him in person? Math? Yeah,
like once, I think you're going to have interviewed in
rhythm amazing interview. We gotta have method on, just as

(01:09:58):
he had dressed up like she did for the LINEA.
She has a wife and then I'm just trying to
bring Lenny back to the other side. Anyway, isn't letting married?
And she little old? If she got a girlfriend, little
older news anyway, and she ain't been discouling a long time. Sorry,
I was telling you anyway, Sophia, we can talk forever.

(01:10:22):
We can talk forever, but we have to wrap it
up though. I really appreciate you coming on this show
and sharing your story opening the door for all my
Asian girlfriends who are now manager shout out said Jennya,
zoom me all my Korean girlfriends shout Don White like
doing it. Thank you. I forgot your manager's Asian I

(01:10:45):
got nine managers. Yeah, yeah, what's your name? John? She
even taught me how to drive. Oh my god, we
taught to drive and talk me out to drive anyway,
Thank you, thank you for having me. I was so
excited for this conversation because I was like, your mind

(01:11:05):
and your historical knowledge, like that's kind of your left brain,
you know, like that Wikipedia. But then there's also this amazing,
insane creative challenge and all, and there just aren't that
many people like that. So thank you. Well, I thank you.
So I took a compliment. Guy, I'm in therapy now.

(01:11:32):
I wanted to run out the door right now, like
all right now, well, thank you very much for coming
on the show. Ladies and Gentlemen, that's another episode of
Quest of Supreme, Thank you very much. Thank you. Her
audio book exclusively on audible. All right, we'll be having
Sugar Steve Layah and Boss Bill and I'm Paid Bill

(01:11:54):
and Find Niccolo. Thank you very much. There's another episode
of Questionisode. People'll see you on the next go round.
Thank you, m H. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

(01:12:15):
you listen to your favorite shows. H