Questlove Supreme: Steve Ferrone Part 1

For a special Questlove Supreme episode, Questlove interviews one of his heroes, Steve Ferrone. In part 1, Steve talks about growing up in England, his drummer influences, and going from Bloodstone into Average White Band. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.
I'm giving you full warning right now the center is
going to be very awkward. I will try not to
make our guest today feel uncomfortable and straight away from
fan worship and just try to be as professional as
I can. I will say though, that you know, every

(00:34):
journey has to start with a spark, every journey, so
me personally, I will say that, you know, before directing
and producing and developing TV shows and podcast hosting and
movie and TV scoring and late night house band leading
and producing and songwriting for artists and when they djaying, music, education,

(00:58):
designing flatwear, my own sneaker line, clothes merch, my own
drum line, teaching college, whatever it is, I will say
that there still has to be a spark, and that
spark starts with a love of music and more specifically
playing music and specifically the drums. Everyone knows my passion

(01:20):
is drumming. In nineteen seventy five, while on the road
with my musician parents in Toronto, Canada, on a Saturday,
I caught an episode of my all time favorite television
show Soul Train, and it absolutely peaked my curiosity. You know,

(01:40):
I was already a fan of the average white band
and their scary ass logo, but my four year old
self was transfixed on the one figure on stage who
was neither white nor average sitting behind a white forty
one fifty seven wouldn't gretch drum kit. I kind of

(02:03):
made a declaration, mostly to myself, that what that guy
is doing, that's what I want to do for the
rest of my life, and pretty much from that point,
for any album that adorned that weird logo of a
white woman's ass in the place of the w we
copped those records and I studied it and kind of
molded myself in our guest image. And what really makes

(02:28):
that sentence weird is I think the only time I
really allowed myself to morph into the style of our
guests was probably seven years into my career. I wanted
a side project called the Philadelphia Experiment on a song
called Ain't It the Truth, which I kind of immersed
myself kind of what would Perny do moment? And Look,

(02:50):
if I'm talking too much advanced math, I'm gonna slow down. Look,
even on a hip hop level, his drums are everywhere,
nas Is Halftime, Rock Him Hiss, Microphone Fiend t LCS,
ain't too proud to big, try called quest check the
rhyn n w as if they ain't roughing the right

(03:10):
gang stars got to get over brand Nubian word is Bond,
Jungle Brothers, the promo, Jill Rob GIU start Us Music
sounds better with You, Kanye West Through the Wire, Mary J. Blige,

(03:38):
Love is All We Need and Love without a Limit,
p Rock and Seale Smooths, Take you There, b I
g Is notorious, but not even just the samples, just
the iconic songs. I'm every Woman, Clouds, what You're Gonna
do for Me? All Night Thing, on the Wings of Love,

(03:58):
Tears in Heaven, Love Girl, Earth Song, keep Rising to
the top, Glow and name the all the iconic artists.
They're not official until he's the timekeeper, so name him.
Freddie King, Brian Auger, Bloodstone, Bette Miller, of Retha Franklin, Sherlyn,
Paul Simon, Melissa Manchester. I told you he's gonna get awkward,
Stephen Christy McVie, Scurti, Polii, Mick Jagger, Patti Austin, George Benson, people, Bryson,

(04:24):
Jennifer Holliday, Duran Duran, Algera, Howard Jones, Cindy Lauper, Anita Baker,
George Harrison, Eda, James, Marcus Miller, Brian Ferry, Tracy Chapman,
Johnny Cash, Zickie Marley Slash, Stevie Nicks, LeAnn Rimes, Steve Perry,
and of course Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. I will
say that pretty much. You know, this guy is my hero,

(04:46):
Even before Prince, before Michael Jackson, I've been dying to
have a conversation with a person that gave me the
spark to fall in love with music. Thank you very
much for talking to me, Steve for Room. All right,
that wasn't too awkward, right, it was just a five
minute No, was that was?

Speaker 3 (05:04):
That was pretty That was pretty cool. There's a lot
of people I didn't even know that.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
No, when we did the Elvis Costello episode, Uh, my engineer, Steve,
his intro was about twenty four minutes, So my my
initial intro was like seventeen, but I cut it down
to a good five.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
But I was one of my favorite rap groups.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
So which one was it?

Speaker 4 (05:32):
AMG?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Really? AMG? That's wow? Wow, Okay, I didn't. I didn't
even know that.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
It's like Janine, they used the they used them, uh
a schoolboy crush, okay for Jean Janine the reprise.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
All right, Wow, you're you're you're You're highly aware of
how you get utilized. Now, what I'll say that's weird
about this moment is the first time that you and
I were supposed to talk for Quest lof Supreme was
on March fifteenth, twenty twenty, which is kind of officially

(06:10):
the day the world shut down because of COVID. Yeah, yeah,
you were. You were doing a residency at at thirty Rock,
sitting in on the Seth Meyers show, And the day
that we were supposed to speak, that's when we realized
that we were in a pandemic.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
So we were in trouble.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, we have to put that on ice. Now. What's
even weirder is you know I had been begging and
begging and begging and begging John Mayer and his people,
like when you come to New York, I gotta go
to this show, so you know, to really enjoy the experience,
so to speak. Our listeners know that in the pandemic,

(06:51):
I started microadosing, so you know, I was. I was
in my zone. I was. I arrived at Madison Square Garden.
I was ready to really taking the music and enjoy
the show. And the first thing I do when I
see Pino Palladino, he tells me dude, And of course,
you know, I was microdocent. So it sounds like a

(07:13):
mirror paron tested positive? Can you sit in? And I
was like, huh what like? And literally I was like, well,
let me see the set list and I was like,
wait a minute. I had to learn fifteen songs and
how many minutes? And they're like forty seven minutes. So
literally I was like, oh no, romnal. So you know,

(07:39):
it's like I didn't get to talk to you, but
I got to play on your drum set. And what's
even weirder is that after two and a half years
of avoiding this dodgeball of a virus, today I finally
tested positive. So welcome to the club, right, Yeah, we're connected?

(08:00):
We are connected?

Speaker 3 (08:01):
Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (08:02):
How you so? You know what it's it's like having
the sniffles, like I was expecting my taste to go
away and all that stuff. I'm I'm having a ball, man,
I'm stay in bed all week, I'm watching movies. I'm
gonna work. You know. I'm working on the slide in
the Family Stone documentary now, so you know I'm in
fine health. I couldn't be happier.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Before I forget.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Congratulations on the Oscar.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
All right, my man, thank you, thank you. You You
are way too hard for me.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
We don't work hard, but I work. I work fun.
Where are you right now?

Speaker 3 (08:33):
As we speak, I'm at a friend of mine's house
in Burbank because my house is being torn apart by contractors.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Okay, we have a lot in common. I also purchased
a farm about a year and a half ago, and
I'm still it's almost it's almost in money pit territory.
So contractors, you know, are working on the.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
To fire my contact. Yes, it's no going.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Same same, don't Sames. I got I got downs two
years ago and now you know we're still we're still
waiting for it. I didn't. I just had to freeze
it so I'll work. There's just way too much money
to invest in it, so I got to wait until
maybe October. So it'll probably be three years before I
get inside my home.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
It'll get them when it's supposed to get them. That's
what I can.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Say, absolutely absolutely right. So you know, I start off
with every episode with the first five basic questions. Number
one for for our listening ardists, could you tell us
where you were born? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (09:34):
I was born in Brighton in England, in the south
coast of England, bat now south of London.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
I will say that probably Brighton, England ninety four is
probably the second best Root show of all time.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
What did you play? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
We did a gig with Roy Ayers and that's where
we discovered that the engineer of our show is just
as important as the musicians on stage, and we kind
of learned, you know, because the thing is, it's like
unlike America, right and at least has an understanding. I

(10:10):
don't know if it's that a lot of reggae concerts
over there, but they have a deeper understanding of base.
And you know, we realized, like we would just push
the sound like the average show. You know, if you
trust the sound company, maybe you're allowed to do like
one hundred and two dbs, maybe one hundred and eight
dbs like we were one hundred and forty DB's. We

(10:31):
weren't loud, but we just had a lot of bass,
and so at the point where the audience was holding
their stomach, like you know, they were getting a colonic
but still dance, Yeah, but still dancing, we realized like, oh,
we have to be the most offensively loudest band in music.
And so you know, we maybe the first three years
we were like everyone's nightmare. But nothing compares to that

(10:54):
one night with roy Aers in nineteen ninety four and Brighton, Like,
I know you just celebrated a birthday, Yes, happy, belated,
thank you. So I know that you were born in
nineteen fifty. Now you weren't born in the States, you know,
dealing with Jim Crow Deep South racism. But you know,
I'm certain that it was alive and well across the world.

(11:15):
But what does it mean to grow up at least
for the first ten years of your life in Brighton?
Like what experiences did you have?

Speaker 3 (11:22):
You know, Well, there's a photographs not around here. I
wish I had it with me in my house. There's
a photograph of me at school. I was like the
only black kid in school. Oh wow, and we're watching
a Punch and Judy show and guess what, we were
just having fun it didn't come into the question though.
I was a different color ever. I mean when I
was when I was little kay until one day that

(11:45):
I was out with my friends and we were playing.
I lived in a row of houses on a street,
and then there was there was this alleyway that led
up to this little cottage, and then there was this
crescent with big houses. And in this cottage at the
top of this little alleyway, there was a guy that
was a retired Harley Harley Street surgeon, And so we

(12:08):
used to play up. There was a couple of trees
and we'd play cowboys and Indians and stuff. And we
got a bit too close to this guy's house, and
he came out with a swordstick, and he pulled his
swordstick and he said, get out of here, making all
that noise making, And he looked right at me with
this point of size, said you too, you black bastard.
And I had no idea what it was that he said, right,

(12:32):
I didn't know. I didn't know well what that meant,
you know, but I felt it. I burst in the
tears and I ran home and I told my grandmother,
who are living with your grandparents? Living in my grandparents
and my mom. Yeah, and my father was in West
Africa serially owned wow.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Okay, okay, but he was never around.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
I mean he showed up when I was nine for
a couple of days. I was about it. But my
grandmother then told got my grandfather and did one of
those defend my honor.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Oh you went to the house.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
He went to the house, and my grandfather went up
there and grabbed this guy and put him up against
the wall and said, don't you ever talk to my
grandson like dad again. But uh uh oh wow. The
way that it got explained to me at that point
in time, I think probably I was maybe five or
six years old, as a little kid. My mother said
to me that, she said, you know what, there's people
out there that think that way and uh and there

(13:29):
to be pitied, which was something that wasn't desirable as
far as I didn't want. I didn't want to ever
be pitied. And so anyway, so that's that's what that's
that's the way I kind of looked at it.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
But yes, you're absolutely right, there's there's there was a
big difference.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
The big difference, I believe those social problems that are
bruised Black America and and and I see that, I
see it, and I and and it different for me
because slavery never came into it.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Wow, that's amazing. I can't even imagine a life there's racism.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yes, slavery didn't know. I think there's a difference in
the in the in the way that you.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Know, it's weird. So in the States, I'm I'm part
of a one percent. That's there's one percent of African
Americans that can trace their family name, their slave ship,
and where they came from. I'm in that, lucky for you.
I also found out that cool j is there was

(14:36):
two percent of African Americans that had nothing to do
with slavery. I guess his family settled in a place
in Ohio that just didn't have slavery, and like somehow
he was able to his family was able to avoid
any of that strife, which is, you know, kind of

(14:57):
a rare thing. Can you tell me what your first
musical memory was?

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Well, you know what I was told.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Was was that I used to sit in the high
chair and we didn't have TV back then, we had radio, okay,
And I'd sit in the high chair with my spoon
eating and then some music would come on, and I'd
start banging my spoon on the on the on the
high chair and the table there to just keeping time
with whatever music was on the radio. And that's was

(15:30):
when they they decided that my grand my grandma, my
grandmother and my mother decided that I needed to channel
that that ability somewhere. So my grandmother was a big
fan of of of tap dancing. She she loved Fred
Astare and Gin Kelly and Tic Tac Toe and those guys.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
He was.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
She was aware of them, and so she sent me
the tap dancing school when I was better, as soon
as I could walk, at about three years old.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, I was going to say, I just over that
about you maybe a week ago when I was doing
my research, and that's kind of my entry into drums.
I went to perform an art school in the first grade,
and it was one of those situations where you go
to your drum lesson and the drums are right there

(16:18):
and you're sort of like, let me at him, let
me at him, and they're like nope, and they point
to a practice pad on the corner and you got
to learn, like your roommate's like it's almost like I
had to practice to work my way up to the
drum set. But even before I got to the practice pad, yeah,
I had to take tap dance. So yeah, all that Bojangles,

(16:41):
me and my shadow like all like I was, I was.

Speaker 4 (16:44):
A hoofer, Like, good, were you good at it?

Speaker 2 (16:48):
I was pretty good at it?

Speaker 4 (16:50):
I was pretty good at it.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
I want medals and stuff?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Really, can you can you still hoof now? Or is
that replacement?

Speaker 3 (17:01):
I got that light on my feet anymore? But I
could probably, I can probably I can do a timestep still, Okay.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, Like around around maybe nine, age nine or age ten,
I kind of eased out of that and just became
strictly like music.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Well, you know, I have to say my first like
my moment that you had, that you said that you
had with Average White Band, I had when I was
about five years old.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
My parents used to take me. They used to take me.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
We had this, I guess you call it Vaudeville or
something like Vaudeville. There was a theater called the Hippodrome
in and the Beatles played there. Actually, so it's kind
of bingo hall now I think it is. But this
is nice one of those theaters that got sort of
neglected and sort of let go little theater and and

(17:52):
and they used to take me there to see these
shows and and you know usually it was comedians and
pantomime at Christmas and stuff. And they took me there
to see this show. And there was a band. There
was a band, a close harmony group called the Deep
River Boys Deepen.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
River Boys from Brooklyn.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Oh really okay, and they were very very big on
Radio Luxembourg. Was was where you would where people would
go to to listen to something other than the BBC,
because the BBC used to just play classical music and
it wasn't they didn't play anything at all, you know.
So you go to Radio Luxembourg and you tune into
Radio Luxembourg and they had a show on there and

(18:36):
and I guess they also was it was also a
show that was that was that was good for like uh,
the the American Forces were all over Europe at that point.
They had the basis in France and Germany and and
uh and and so they used to be on that
on on the American Forces broadcasting. But they had a
regular show on this on this and they they on

(18:58):
Radio Luxembourg and they appear at the Hippodron. So my
parents took me down there and they did. Maybe it
was kind of like gospel music, but I'd never heard
anything like that, and I got really excited and started
dancing around in the in the audience listening to this
music is like, what's this? You know?

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Oh wow?

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Well it is that. Even you find vanilla ice cream,
you give a vanilla I skream to a baby first
time they have it, They're like, why didn't you give
me this before? You know, you got this baby food?

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Why where was.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
This vanilla ice cream?

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well?

Speaker 3 (19:27):
That was what what what? What I got with from
their music, and they sent them manager. They took me
and they brought me backstage and befriended, befriended me. They
made me deep with the boys number six, and that
was the time. That was when I found out that
I was black.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Oh word, okay, yeah, I had no idea.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
I had no idea.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
That I was black until I went and saw these guys.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
And they took me back back to my parents, my grandma,
My mom and my grandmother took me back stay to
meet them, you know, with the they've been invited back.
And I looked at these guys and they were six
foot tall, which was for them. Back then it was gigantic,
was a giant, And I said, I wish I could
be black blake. You guys, back then, we never said

(20:19):
black was colored because it was disrespectful. It was disrespectful
to say black.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Back then, I wish.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
I was colored like you. And this guy Harry Douglas,
who I stayed in touch with for years, he passed
away sometimes sometime ago.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh, you maintained a friendship with him, Yes, all.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Through the years. Yes, it was just amazing.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
And and well there the first Americans that you interacted with. Yes, well, yes,
how weird was it to hear? Did they have an
accent to you?

Speaker 4 (20:48):
I didn't even know. I was just like, I was
just so sweet.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
I mean they that's how they sang, and they sang,
they sang like they were.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yeah, we heard it scene like we have sort of
heard about America.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
I think we had TV by then, so there'd be
a couple of TV series that we've seen, not much
of a TV little.

Speaker 4 (21:04):
Thing like this black white thing.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Right.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
But but Harry Douglas looked at me and he and
he said to me, he says, you know, tonight, I'm
going to cast a spell. And when you wake up
tomorrow morning. You go look in the mirror and you
and you'll be you'll be colored like we are. Sleep.
I went to sleep and then I got up and
I went to the mirror and wanted, yes it was.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
I anything more about it? Oh God, that's a great story.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Ever.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, do you know what the first LP or single
that you gravitated towards?

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, you know, I remember I used to I used
to listen a lot to Motown. Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
So Northern It's All was a thing.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
Then?

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Was that more of the sixties?

Speaker 3 (22:04):
It was, Yeah, it was. It was more of a
MUDs and rockers. You know, we had these two factored
for warring factions, okay, and the rockers used to listen
to sort of Elvis Presley, sort of rock and roll
and skiffle music, and the MUDs used to listen to
to The Who and Motown and Motown okay and that
and that was funny because we all everybody started to

(22:26):
play air base, you know, it went from playing like
air guitar or just air drums. When Motown came out,
everybody was so that's what you grab it to it, Okay,
digging on James Jamison. Yeah, but when it came to
like playing an instrument, the drums was i'd learned. I
figured out the mechanics are doing that, but playing in

(22:46):
a I got it. I actually got a job when
I was twelve in a in a real show. And
while I was on the show, in the kids chorus
of this summer show, tap dancing and singing with this
a guy named Max Bygraves. It was a big star
in England. Okay, I looked down into the orchestra pit
and we did this, we said the single it all
up up there doing the twist. You know, let's twist again.

(23:08):
We all have to be at the twisted little kids
with this guy. And I looked down and I saw
that a she didn't have these hands like that, you know,
And so I went upstairs and practiced that, and then
I thought, well, then they had listened a bit more
when I was up there twisting and said what's he
doing with his feet?

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (23:27):
So what what? Uh? Well, I'll re ask the question,
do you know what the first single or album that
you purchased with your own money? Because I think it's
a little different.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Than sadly, what is it the first single that.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
I got one I'll share.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
It was my mother's birthday and I asked what she
wanted for her birthday, and she said she wanted green
green grass of home whose things that Frank I think
it was Frank Eifield.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Oh wow, it comes Mary, That's what your mom?

Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah to the records, So can I get a copy
of that?

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah? A lot of people and say like Jackson five
or some of the but the real answer is, uh,
I think the forty five ever purchased was Bad Blood
by Nil Saidaka, And only only because really I judged
I lived in a house with like over three thousand
records because my parents were musicians, and the Rocket Company,

(24:35):
which was out in John's label, Nil Saidaka's label. I
judge records on how good the logo looked rotating on
the forty five. So I like the green and blue
hue of mc A Rocket Records, and so I chose
Bad Blood. So the first time that you actually sat

(24:55):
on a drum set, like who taught you how to
play the drums? Like, what's your what's your an entry
into sitting on a drum set?

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Well, I just what happened was was that when I
went to when I was after we'd done this TV,
this run, this, this show, the summer show. There was
a place called the Regent Ballroom in Brighton and that
is not there anymore. It's Boots Chemists now.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
But on Saturday mornings they would have they'd have it open.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
There would be a disc jockey and or people would
take their kids there and drop their kids off there
and then they go shopping. They go and do their shopping,
They leave their kids there, safe place on the bed
and the kids would dance and uh and uh.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
So DJ culture was the thing in the sixties where yeah, yeah,
you put a record on you hear it over a
PA system. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Yeah, yeah, we had they had two things that they
had a live band and then the stage would revolve
and there would be a disc jockey and so they
would they would the bad would take a break and
then the disc jockey would be out there and play
the records. And we used to like them. The record
was a lot more than the band, Yeah, because the
band played the old stuff. Really there was sort of
like a ballroom band, you know. The disc jockey used

(26:07):
to play the motown and we used to love that,
loved it.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, wow, okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
And and so we were we were there. We used
to go there on a Saturday morning and me and
my me and you know, a young boys with the
raging hormones who go up to these young girls and
and they danced with us. You know, we might get
a kiss on the cheek, and that was it. It
was finished. You know, that was a lot. Well one
day Manfred Man's band, but they were playing that night

(26:34):
at the in the in the in the in the ballroom, right,
and they they set up early when we were all
in there, and they played I think, I guess they
did their sound check and they played for us little
kids and every and every every little, every little twelve
year old girl and there went completely crazy about this band,

(26:55):
like like they were the Beatles, screaming. And so I
said to my friends, we're doing we're doing it all wrong.
We need we need to be that, we need to do. Yeah,
So we put we started playing. We got we just
I got a toy. I had a toy drum kit,
and I had those motor skills. I knew where to

(27:15):
do it. And the only song there was a guy
that he had a real guitar and but he had
an old record player that his dad had changed into
being an.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Amplifier and they yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
And he played and we played Sauce standing there the
te chests with the string and the that was that's
that was the bass in that's and that's all we
could play with Sauce standing there, and we did that.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Let me make sure I'm clear on this. You mean
Manford Man, the actual blinded by the Light guys. Yeah, okay,
see I know him from the seventy six I didn't
realize yeah, yeah history.

Speaker 4 (27:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah for then yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
And so we were we would we would go and
play in the afternoons at friend's house. He couldn't do it.
My grandfather, Yeah, he was. He was a milk and
then he would go out and start work at three
o'clock in the morning, and he didn't want to. He
hated music all kinds. The only thing he like was
classical music and anything young was just he didn't like
anything about young kids or noise, right, okay, Yeah, So

(28:15):
we go up to another friend's house and we'd set
up and we'd play with this little toy drum kid
thing that I had. My grandmother bought me a snare
drum for Christmas, a real one, and the guy with
the guitar because he had a real instrument. His father,
his father on the gas station.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
He used to go and hang out in the music.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
Stores, which is where all the older kids that had
bands used to hang out. Okay, So yeah, there's these
there's these big kids what we call them big kids
because here we are twelve year olds and there's his
like eighteen year old kids, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen year old
kids that had started playing bands, playing making bands and

(28:56):
could play. But we had money at jobs because someone
would leave score at fifteen and they would they would
buy and save up and buy an instrument and make
a band. So this kid was there trying to be
in a little twelve year old I got a real guitar,
trying to hang out with these older kids. And there
was a bunch of guys in there the way gigs

(29:17):
used to be got. There would be a bulletin board, right,
they put a bulletin board in the music shop, and
if you if you wanted a geek, you go and
look at the bulletin and see who was who was
looking for a drummer, who was looking for a guitarist
or you know, and and and and they put up
this thing and they were talking to the proprietor of

(29:38):
the store and they were saying, to our drummer's got
to go and get his appendix out, and we need
we got a gig at a youth club on Saturday
night and we need to get if I hear any
drummers coming in here. And my friend took his life
into his hands, talking to like older kids like that
and said, I know a drummer and they said, well,
who's that and they said, well, you know good things.

(30:00):
You're a blues band, right the Flames. They called, yeah,
well this guy is black. So that was that was
the first. That was the first. They said that he's old.
He's he's twelve years old. They said, well is he
any good? And you get yeah, you can play it.
He said, okay, hav him come over and meet us
at this at this house. And so this kid and

(30:23):
with no telephone, you had to come over to my house.
He said, there's these big kids and they got a
band and they're looking for a drummer. And I'm like, well,
big kids, because big kids used to beat up kids
like my sights, you know, And he said yeah. So
so I went over there, and I took my life
in my hands, and I walked in there, and I
sat down, and I played a few songs with them,

(30:44):
and and and they said, okay, well you can come
play the youth club with us.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
He passed the test.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Passed the test.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, because I knew I knew songs.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
You know, it was for the tap dancing. You feel
you were, you know, I knew introduction versus chorus bridge,
you know, and and and how the dynamic the dynamic
of his song, so I could kind of follow that.

Speaker 4 (31:08):
I didn't even have to know the song. I could
follow it.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
There's one time I went to not an all white school,
but there's one time I went to. I was playing
a pick up a game of basketball, so naturally, you know,
the white kids thought like, well, we'll take a mirror
because he's black. And yeah, I was in a sports game.
I found out.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
They may be captained of the football team. So really,
I said, yeah, it's useless. I was useless.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
That means you're a real musician. I always say that
real musicians don't know sports. I'm sorry, man, Well, one
you're saying you're a twelve, which basically means that this
is sixty two. Yeah, you know, for the United States,
the what we call the British invasion will happen in
a year, a year and a half. That's what is

(31:58):
the Well, you lived in the British invasions, so I
guess it wasn't a big deal to you. So what
is the effect of white based blues these teams that
are listening to these blues records and starting rock bands? Like,
how how influential was it?

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Sixty It was extremely you know, because this is what happened.
You know, these older kids they knew somehow, I don't
know how, but they knew about Muddy Waters, Sannit Terry
and Brownie McGee light in Hopkins. Oh, they knew all
about that stuff, and that those guys had a tour

(32:38):
and they would come and play the Dome in bright Yeah.
And so Bill Doggett, he was my least.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Favorite, you know, ain't Bill Doggett.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
It's my least favorite. But now and listening to him,
I got to wonder why, right, right? But at that
time I loved John Lee Hooker, John Hooker, just and
Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee. I love it. And so
these guys they come around every year and the band

(33:10):
that I was, this band that I was playing with,
they take me, these eighteen year old kids would take
me right to see it. I mean I would have
paid more attention had I had I known what I
was watching, right, But I got to see those guys.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
It was incredible and that was that was the start
of it for me.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I'm currently trying to shop there's someone that's written a
series based on a lot of those Chicago blues legends,
coming over to Germany, coming over to the UK, finding
a new audience over there. We're trying to shop that series.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Right, they knew who they were, right, I mean, we
didn't have computers and stuff to look at these, but
we we'd who the hell is that?

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Right? What's good? Because you know they couldn't get arrested
in the United States, you know, well.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Yeah, they could get arrested in the United States.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
I remember seeing that that that movie about Standing in
the Shadows of Motown. But they were absolutely shocked when
they arrived in England that people would say, come up
and say, who's James Jamison? Which one I used, James Jamison.
They were like, how do you know about James Jamison?
Which one of you is Benny which one he used?
Benny Benjamin. We knew that all those people were were you?

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Were you developing any heroes? Like who would you say,
is the first drumming hero that you had? Okay, yeah,
I was gonna say, I know, I knew you guys
covered what his Soul on the seventy seven Benny and
Us record. But was that your idea to cover that song?

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yes, because that was the first time that I ever
heard jrumps played with syncopation like that. I was were
I was working, I said. When I was about fourteen
years old, I started to go like in summer. I
hadn't I left school at fifteen, but we started to
go over and work American bases in France. And I

(35:09):
remember it like it was yesterday. I was in the
in the There was a place called the Caserne and
it was in Talk in the middle of France, and
we were there playing at the Enlisted Man's Club, and
and we could eat on the base. So we go
to the we'd stay off the base, but we could
go to the base and eat on the base and
go to the can and there was a we we

(35:30):
sort of went and sat down near the juke box
so we could hear the music that was on there.
Couldn't afford to buy anything, but right, and this, uh,
this black gi in these fatigues, the green fatigues that
they used to wear. He sort of sauntered over there,
sort of skinny that I remember seeing him do it,
and he popped in whatever it was called a dime,
whatever they put in there, and he hit some numbers

(35:53):
and walked away and I heard shout it out them
dug dug and what what?

Speaker 4 (36:01):
What was?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (36:02):
I saw? I heard? I heard Charlie Watts. I never
heard drums played like that? Where did that come from?

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Oh? Wow?

Speaker 3 (36:10):
So I went over and had to look what what?

Speaker 4 (36:12):
What records?

Speaker 2 (36:12):
That?

Speaker 3 (36:13):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (36:13):
Then he king what is so?

Speaker 2 (36:17):
So how do you know who's playing drums? Because I
don't know if album credits are even a thing. Like
when I was you know, Purdy did a session for
my dad in like seventy four, so that's how I
got to meet him. But how do you know who
is what?

Speaker 4 (36:35):
And well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
I found out that it was pretty but maybe it
got the album or something or usked around and somebody
somebody else knew I got to know. I we couldn't
look it up on the computer. I don't. I don't
remember having an album with that with any information on it.
But somebody told me, oh that's perty.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Okay, well you mentioned sort of dropping out at fifty team.
When you do that, in your mind, is it like, okay,
do or die? I have to be a musician And
how does your family feel about this decision?

Speaker 3 (37:11):
It was it was revenge.

Speaker 4 (37:13):
You know, it's class system in England.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
I wasn't supposed to be anything more than maybe a
bus driver or plumber.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
I wasn't.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
I wasn't gonna I wasn't going to stay an extra
year at school and become a banker or like a
working a bank clerk or civil servant or something like that.
I was. It kind of started. I mean I sort
of stayed in. We had forms, ABC D forms. I
was in the A form. I was kind of in.
I could hover in the middle of the A form.
I wasn't done, okay. I I decided that I wanted

(37:46):
to play drums, and especially you know since now a
ringo star have become a huge.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
Star, right Charlie Watts, These are like normal guys.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
They weren't upper upper CLU upper class, upper cross or anything.
He was like they were like us. Keith Moon, I
used to, you know, play my band used to open
for the Hoop and they played him with him brighton
in a little little club. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Was he destroying his kit back then.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Or well not in the beginning, but then he started
to once they started, once they started to give him equipment,
and there was the whole story behind that. But I
used to go, I take pieces of it for spares
for Mike. I had an Olympic drum kit, a little
Olympic which is at wasn't It wasn't a gigster. Gigster
was was the was the was it was the really cheap,

(38:35):
horrible thing, right. And then he had Olympic which was intermediate,
and then premiere. Right, but I had this Olympic thing,
and but and the premiere stuff would like different lugs
and stuff would fit on there. So if I had
stuff that broke, I could take that. And Keith Moon
would take a sledgehammer to his drum kit and just

(38:55):
smash it into matchwood. And let's say to the roadie,
can I have yeah, sure to take it?

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Really. Pat Townsend destroyed a guitar on the Tonight show
and they let me have it.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
So okat, I've well it was like it was like a.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yukule anley but still you know, it's like a guitar.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
But like I'm saying though that this was pears that
were that were that were doing it. So when they
started to ask me when I was like fourteen year olds,
you know, what what do you want to do when
you leave school? And I said, oh, I want to
be a drummer. I want to I want to play drums.
And they said you can't do that. I said why
not and they said, well, because it's not a real job.

(39:39):
So I said, well, ringo star does it? No, Charlie
Wats does it? Yeah, but you're not. You're a ringo star.
And then they started to call me ringo and I
used to I used to. I used to play football.
I was not said they may be captain, but I
wasn't any good at the captain. I used to box
at school. I was pretty good boxing.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Okay, wait you were there was boxing rick and hid yeah,
oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
Yeah until one kid got killed and then they stopped it.
There was a couple of but but but they they
we had boxing at school and I was always all right,
had that, and I used to do that for the school,
and I used to run track at school. But when
they started to mock me about what I wanted to
do about music, then I went on strike and I said, right,

(40:24):
that's it, I'm going to play music. I'm not going
to do this anymore. And I rebelled, complete rebellion. I'd
go into go into exams and I'd sit there and
they'd say you got five minutes to just read the
stuff through. I'd sit there and then they ring the
bell say okay, start start working. I put up my
hand and say, can't do it. Wow, I said, can't
do it, it's too difficult, can't do it.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
We'll try.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
I don't honor, and they wouldn't want to argue with me,
so they just say okay, get out, and I'd leave.
I go play drums.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
What was what was considered making a good living as
a musician, at least at that point in your life.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
With it nine pounds a week with a bit of
a fortune. You know, when I when I left and
Let's school and got a job, I was earning like
four pounds a week. You know, four pounds went a
lot further than.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
It does now, but because of inflation, yes, but.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
It was still very little, very little money. I give
it about one pound fifty to my mom for rent, and.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Really yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
That's how I was brought up.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Eventually, I know in your mind, is it is the
goal to make it in America? Is the goal to
get on the radio? Is the goal to play a
large theater, like what's the first step? And you making it?

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Never really had any particular ambition at all and anything
except to play, to play mut that can make a
living at it. I mean, I mean, I mean I
did the starving musician bit in London, you know, and
with a couple of guys. We lived in a one
bedroom one bedroom apart was in an apartment I have room, right,

(42:17):
and we're starving musicians. And there's some people would would
there was a charity of people and go and hang
out and get picked up for the old gig here
and there. Okay, the object I think the object really
was just just to get to a place where you
could afford to pay you rent and get a place
to live and not even you. I didn't have any

(42:39):
any ambition as far as like private jets.

Speaker 5 (42:41):
Or right, but yeah, we have now Yeah, yeah, what
what I what is rent a month in Okay, let's
say like you're now eighteen in nineteen sixty eight, what
is rent a month in the U? K?

Speaker 4 (42:59):
Oh? Maybe two three pounds a week?

Speaker 3 (43:03):
Maybe?

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Okay, Yeah, so you make that on the cake. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
So when the sort of psychedelic movement eases in, or
at least like by post nineteen sixty six, like when
the Beatles start experimenting, when Hendricks is starting to come
over to make a mark, is this affecting you at
all and your musicianship?

Speaker 4 (43:25):
Absolutely?

Speaker 3 (43:27):
I mean yeah, I mean it was wonderful. It was
one of the sixties. Was a wonderful time, you know,
as far as music fashion.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah. So were you a hippie? No?

Speaker 4 (43:39):
I was, I was.

Speaker 6 (43:40):
I was, well, I you know, I started off when when,
like I said, the boring MUDs MUDs and rockers, right,
I thought, well, you know this still started like an
Easter Sunday down at the beach, and I thought, well
it was gonna win.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Yeah, the rockers they can you know. So I sort
of put on some rocket gob as close as I
could get to rocker garb, and I went down to
the beach and there were thousands and thousands of mods.
So I went back home and I put on some
Levi's and a white T shirt Chases it, and then
went down there and became a modern rioted with everybody

(44:13):
through throwing stones and running up down the beach and
beating up people when we could find him.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Oh god, So you know from what I know it is.
Was the American group Bloodstone your first experience in the
United States? Or was that? Was there a group or four.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
In the United States? I mean I'd done the Freddy
King album. I've worked on the Freddy King album.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
But oh, okay, And what was that like playing with him?

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Oh? It's incredible.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
He was incredible.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
And the producer was a guy named Mike Vernon, a
hush guy named Mike Vernon, and Mike had come down
to see this I'd started. I come back to England
from from being living in Europe and went to music school.
What school, uh is the.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Nice Conservatory of Music?

Speaker 2 (45:02):
You went to Nice? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
There was a guy named.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
Jacques car who was the percussion percussion teacher. And I
was too old actually to get into the school as
a student, so he got me in as a teacher
because I could play, so he had me teach the kids.
And because I was teaching the kids how to play
modern drums because all they talk was classical music. That

(45:26):
was about it.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
So you could read music.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
By the time I left, I could, yeah, minimally, not
like the guys. I mean, there was guys that have
been since they were tiny. I had learned to play
their instrument to reading music and that. But these guys
they couldn't play modern drums. I could, so I have
to teach them. So when I'm teaching them, I'm writing
them out exercises and they're like, oh no, no, no,

(45:52):
mister Feroni, this is this is how you write that out.
And so I was learning. I was teaching as I
was teaching. Oh I did three years of that and
it was wonderful. It's really wonderful. But when I came
when I came back, I started to play with this band, Gonzales.
They were a bunch of studio musicians that would that

(46:12):
would play in the clubs at night. And the way
you got into that band was you wait for whoever
was playing your instrument to go out of town or
have a gig that he couldn't a session that he
couldn't make the gig, and then you would come in
there and then you would play. You would play that
gig until you couldn't make it anymore. Then you leave,
and then guys like Richard Bailey, So I'd switch up

(46:32):
with like Richard Bailey and that was that was how
that band.

Speaker 4 (46:36):
And we opened for Average White Band once.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Really yeah, okay, yeah, I was going to say, at
this point, were you running into Allen or Hamish or
the Glasgow guys.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
I was really good friends with Robbie McIntosh when I
was when I went to Italy, when I was like
seventeen years old. I went to Italy and I met
Robbie down there and Alex did it, would you know?
You know Alex is he sang with Santana. He sang
that song I'm Winning with Santana.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Really okay.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
And Alex and Robbie used to play in a band
called the Senate okay, and they were there in Italy
and I was there. I was there working with an
American guy named Ronnie Jones. He's still a live god
blessed eighty three years old, eighty three years old now,
and he lives he lives in Milan.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Did McIntosh have what you would say a pocket then
or was he just.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
Really he came up with listening to the same stuff
as I did. You know. It's funny, you know, we
all came up listening to the same music, even Tom
Penny and went. After spending some time with the Heartbreak,
as we start talking to oh you know this song
or that song, and I came to find out that
Tom and Mike were listening to the same stuff as
I was listening to.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
As the English Invasion. We were all listening to.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
The same music, the same thing.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Yeah, And so there was a connection made through the
through the music, you know. And there was a connection
made with with with the guys from average white Man
because they grew up in Scotland and I was down
at the way up there in Scotland in Dundee and
I'm down here in the south of England and we're
all listening to Motown and listening to the stacks. Yeah.

(48:21):
And so when we sat down and started to play
that music, we had a way of playing it that
was it would give a nod to it.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
But we didn't copy.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
We didn't.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
It wasn't a it wasn't derivative of it.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
No, No, you could tell.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
What it was, you know, because you were sort of
the drummer whose DNA I studied the most. I always
wanted to know this the the sort of trick or
at least your signature feel, which I kind of believe
maybe Pretty did it first be infamous.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Ye, that's Puddy is Okay.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
I was gonna say, you you heard Pretty do that,
and then that just instantly became part of.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Your DNA, and then and then and then the other
high hat stuff that.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
I got that from Stevie Wonder.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
It's so funny. Okay, I'm glad I'm talking to you. Well,
an I might be, I was gonna say, quote unquote,
I might be quote unquote working on a Stevie Wonder
project as well. And you know, Stevie to me, I
don't know any besides James Gatson and maybe Bonzo. I

(49:41):
don't know another drummer who I define more with his
symbol work, you know, like all music of my mind,
just the sloppiness of like love having you around and
just I.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Miss that when he started programming drums so much.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I know, like I love when he stopped and just
all over the place I think it's also the fact
that he would sort of Motown style, overdubbed those tom
Thoms and overdubbed those high hat feels that it sounds
super intense because you know, it just sounds like he's
playing it within an inch of his life.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
Oh, it's wonderful.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
This is wonderful.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
What was the first American city that you arrived in
in New York and what was your first impression of America? Wow?

Speaker 4 (50:28):
Really, I remember I remember landing.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
I remember landing at the airport and I had my drums,
my drum kit on a on a car right and
I don't think I don't think I had to work
for it. What And and I came through and this
this guy, this customs guy, looked at and he said,
what are you doing? I said, oh, we just hear
like a vacation.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
And he said, oh okay, he says, your first time
he visiting.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
I don't know is because I had an English act
because back then he was kind of unique for a
black guy to speak with any yes accent, you know,
And he said any and he said and he said
to me, he said does He said.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
Have you got any drugs? And I said no, I
don't good. I haven't got any drugs.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
It's he said, there's plenty through that door. Welcome to
New York.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Really And that was that, And that.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Was that Sixth Avenue we wrote, were writing up Sixth
Avenue and I remember, wow.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Just looking out and amazing. Yeah, yeah, when was when
is the era of back line?

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Like?

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Were you expected to provide your own gear, your own drums?
Are you setting up your own gear? Was there a
roadie back in the day or were you setting up
your own stuff?

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Well, there were a couple of roadies, but they would
they would help, but you know, we all have to
really sort of take care of.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Our own stuff. Okay, I've heard many accounts of how Robbie
passed away and how you got into the group, but
I've never heard an official version from official band member.
How did Robbie pass away? And how did you get
the gig? For the average white band?

Speaker 3 (52:11):
Well, you know where we you know, we're friends. I
was supposed to go to that party. I was supposed
to meetium with that party, but I was, I was,
I was. I was doing the film, doing the film.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
With You're in that movie?

Speaker 4 (52:23):
No, I played, Well, I might be in them, but
I did the move music for it.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
So did it ever come out?

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Yes, yes, I I think I have it. I think
I could have found it.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Oh my god. Okay, yeah, they're trained. Yes. When they
when they were promoting that album on Soul Train, uh,
Don Cornelli is showed like a minute of the clip
where they're riding in the train and they're in the
bunkers and yeah, doing show tunes and whatnot, and.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
So it is funny. I mean I had to go
there and be on set with them and then and
then we go we doing cool music and yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
So you're all over that record. Yeah, wow, that's not
you on natural high.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Money Money is better. No, okay, it's not me a master,
but but money is money, badass something at he said
it to me. That's why I started looking for it.
I forgot all about it.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Wow, we did that.

Speaker 4 (53:18):
All the best things.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
In life three right, I get it.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
So so I was doing I was doing that and
and they were playing that. They were doing a run
at the Troubador, and Robbie caughed me up and he said,
come on, man, come on, going to be a party on.
It was Sunday night or something. So I got to
work if I can, I'll be there and and and
as fate would have it, I didn't. I didn't go okay,

(53:44):
and and and the next morning I woke up and
my my my drum tech. Then guy that was working
for me, guy named Terry Merchant.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
He said, Steve Robbie steady. And I said, what dead
drum Because Robbie, Robbie and I used to go out
drinking together. Robbie was the hell of a drinker.

Speaker 4 (54:05):
And he said, no, no, no, he's dead.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
You know, he don't even overdose. Robbie wasn't so much
of a drug taker. I could say, there wasn't so
much of a drug. He's more of a drinker, right,
But Robbie, this is this was the thing was Robbie.

Speaker 4 (54:21):
Robbie could drink.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
I'd seen Robbie drink Butler vodka and then he just
switched to Scotch, right, and I get sick. But I
never saw Robbie throw up, never saw him he would
pass out right. Yeah. And and from from my understanding,
because I wasn't there for a lot of what when
when the whole was just there for the aftermath, was

(54:46):
that he was at this party and everybody did this.
Something was saying, he's some he's some cocaine, right, And
so Robbie wouldn't do anything small. He was not that
sort of a person either.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
He went bigger. Yeah, when her he.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Went, and he went, he went bigger.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
And and everybody, everybody else that did it got sick.
And Robbie went home, went to sleep, and it stayed
in his system. It was it was heroin and it
was cut with strychnine and it killed him.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Jesus Christy, is that simple?

Speaker 3 (55:17):
You know? You know, I mean we talk a lot about,
you know, accidental drug overdoses, you know, sometimes the house
I'm saying it at the moment, there was three guys
that died of a fentanyl overdoses. And and one of those,
one of those guys was his was his nephew, right,
and uh, and accidental. I don't think anybody goes does

(55:40):
any of that stuff to die, you know. I mean,
if they want to do that, they say, I'm I'll
write a suicide note, right exactly, you did this to me,
and then they're just do an enormous art and they're dying.
And I think they were recreation. I don't think that
this guy even had a problem, and I think there
was just three buddies that decided to go and mess around.

(56:00):
Let's let's try that stuff and see what it does.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
And unfortunately, yeah, it's a killer.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
It wasn't like that in the sixties. I can tell
you that right now. But I don't think anything any
of the drugs nowadays like they were in the sixties
and seventies, And it's a it's a different animal. So,
you know, Robbie, it was a tragic, a tragic accident.
It did. It was a lot of pain, probably still

(56:28):
being felt today. You know, I hadn't spoken to his
widow in over twenty years, and she called me last week.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Really, yeah, wow.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
He did, and and and she she was telling me
that she she just just now has come to terms
with the fact to be able to just say, you know,
that's what it was. And not much point running around
feeling resentment. In years of running around feeling resentment, you
just make yourself.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
That broke her heart for all those years, forty five years.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
It just wow, she remarried, but yeah, still painful.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yeah, you know, Robbie was a great guy and a
great drummer and a great guy.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
How How long does time go by before you're getting
the phone call to join the average white band, and
before they call you, are they trying to at least
maintain the status of the name of the group and
find a white guy that's funky.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
No, Well, I tell you what happened was was this
was that was that when when I found out about
Robbie being being dead, I went and I called, I
got hold of Hamish, and I went over to the
hotel and sat over the hotel with everybody, and we
were all drinking, because that's what we did with the Scots,

(57:47):
and and and I said to them, listen, you know,
Robbie wouldn't want you guys to stop now, you know
you just gotten to get this airplay, would pick up
the pieces that's happening for you. I don't know how
this is all going to end, but you guys, you
know you shouldn't shouldn't stop.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
There was talk of maybe we should stop the group.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Well it was it was everybody was sitting around so
of like it was all over. You know, It's like
it's not over, it's you know. And so I said,
if there's anything I can do, let me know, and
and and and I was under contract to bloodstone, right,
So what what I would do is Stick super and myself.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
What would happen if I couldn't do it, if I
was working with a bludstone, Sticks would go and play
with them.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
And then Sticks briefly joined the Average White band.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
They played no average White man. So he go and
play the gig and then and then if he could,
if he couldn't do it, I do it. And then
and and you know, I go and play with them.
They were auditioning people s I R. There's drummers all
black white. I mean, it didn't really matter. They were
just looking for a drumah okay with sticks and sticks

(59:04):
and I would go, We'll go to the auditions and
we'd sit there in s I R.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
And they drummer would come in.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
They start playing with them, and they say, okay, no
that they ain't working, and they would get more and
more depressed, you know, And so either Sticks or myself
would go up and we jam with them and they
come back to life again, and then they wheel in
another drummer, and then we'd sit there and we'd watch them,
and they would go there.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Any any drummer of note that tried to audition for
the band that didn't.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Make nobody, nobody that I knew, but there was a
lot of kids wanted to play. They would, you know.
It was it was a big audition to go to
and so and so I had to play this gig
with them down at Long Beach at Long Beach Arena,
at the old Long Beach Arena and.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
Were down there.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
We sit there and come out we start to play.
I remember this gig there was. They were also like
kind of state static audio. They weren't really doing too much.
And then there was this one I saw this one
guy sort of started to rock, you know, so I
sort of hold him, owned in on him, and it
kind of spread out from him and by the end

(01:00:10):
of the show, everybody was like dancing and going crazy
and it was.

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
It was a great show.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
And I came off the stage and this little fella
came walking up to me dapper, you know, it's really
well dressed, and I, you know, a little bed.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
He walked up to me and he said, you've got
to be in the band.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
And I said, I'd love to be in the band,
but I'm under contract to another band. I can't I
can't do it. And he said, you're out. Of that
band and you're in the band. And then he walked
and he walked off and Bruce mccaskell was the manager
at the time of the banner. I said, Bruce, who
the hell is that? And he said, oh, that's how
I heard. I was out of that contract and I

(01:00:54):
was in Average White Man just like that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
All right, ladies and John, I know you dread when
you hear this, but you got to come back the
next week for the next QLs episode of our special
one on one request Love Supreme with my idol Steve Aron.
He's going to talk about his time with the Average Wife,
Bend Duran Duran, Tom Petty, playing with Prince, all this

(01:01:19):
other stuff. Man, I hope you come back and enjoy.
This episode is one of the probably the most special
episodes I've ever done, where I can talk to the
person that showed me the joys of music and drumming especial.
All right, see y'all then thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
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