Steve Rifkind Pt. 1

LOUD Records founder Steve Rifkind sits down with Questlove Supreme. He speaks about growing up in the music industry, being around James Brown and Frankie Crocker, plus his time managing New Edition. In Part 1, the veteran record executive also discusses signing Wu-Tang Clan, Twista, and Tha Alkaholiks, as well as his complex relationship with Tupac Shakur

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
West love supreme is a production of I heart radio.
Lazy Gentlemen, another qls is upon us. As I've always
stated in previous shows. Um, it is fun talking to
the artists, but oftentimes I find it more fun getting

(00:24):
the four ward one, the information from a different perspective,
and oftentimes, you know, promotion people and our people, CEOS,
kind of have a different perspective. And I guess you know,
maybe I'm secretly a suit more than I am an artist.
So I think I enjoy those episodes better. But even
with the response we get from the podcast, it's often

(00:48):
when we talk to label CEOS that I get the
most Steve Back. So hopefully, if you're like me, this
episode should be worn for the record books and for
a lot of you hip hop junkies out there. Um,
you're in for a treat when you hear cats my
age speak of okay, now the word of course, of
the year's renaissance, and you know this isn't the Queen

(01:11):
Bee Reference, but when we're speaking of the renaissance era
of hip hop, we're talking about a specific time period
and which, I will say the Renaissance Ara of hip
hop versus the classic era of hip hop is sort
of when the Music Palette, as far as sampling is concerned,
extended a further reach past the first layer of sampling.

(01:32):
You know, like the first round was like James Brown,
George Clinton and be what I call the Wikipedia of
crate digging, known as ultimate beats and breaks compilation. Shout
out to break B Lou, good friend of the show.
But all of a sudden, you know, all those jazz
records and all those boring albums in your uncle aunt's
record collections started to get utilized in this particular era

(01:57):
of hip hop, starting with kind of in the early
nine and these and extending uh in the decade. And oftentimes,
when we talk about the renaissance period, usually illmatic is
kind of synonymous with that era. However, and yes, I
will say illmatic is the pinnacle of that particular sound,
but from a creative standpoint that the label owned by

(02:22):
our guests today, was probably one of the most forward thinking, consistent,
envelope pushing hip hop labels that pretty much led the
charge culturally for the directions of what credible hip hop
sounded like. In a way that kind of like Def
Jam was established in the eighties. I can go through

(02:43):
I had to write some of the names down. Twist,
mad cap. I could spend an hour madcap alone, because
I thought, oh, that's a lane for the roots, the alcoholics,
of course, the Wu Tang clan, whoever they are, uh
Sella dwellers, mob deep big Pun exhibit, one of my
all time favorites. And what we ever released the project
Pat Song, I don't know projects, the link with habits,

(03:08):
Dead Pres Gangster Boo, little flip, the executioners, even with
R and B, with the Vienna, LV and Yuvette, Michelle Hey,
Adriana Evans, yeah, Adriana Evans, even like well known vets
like Pete Rock, beat nuts, MLP, three six, mafia, Uncle Luke,
fumpass to flex right alert. All these, all these greats

(03:31):
came to uh, basically the house of loud as I say,
but it would be whom. It also mentioned that our
guests was very crucial also, and the art of what
we call street promotion, which I guess we'd take it
for granted now, seeing snipes on the street and seeing
raps on the vans and seeing stickers everywhere, but a

(03:52):
lot of that revolution was started in the early nineties
and our guests had a very extream impact in developing
that and not to mentioned. I have to say that
it will be exciting to talk to kind of a
lineage person in terms of the fact that you know
his very father, you know, the Great Jewels Rifkin, who

(04:12):
owned spring records, which you know, home to Joe Simon
and Millie Jackson and fat back. You know his father
released the very first hip hop single ever, which is,
of course, is King Tim the three by fat back. Um.
You know that if the intro is fifteen minutes long,
I pray the show is nine hours long. Steve Rifkin,

(04:39):
I used to say. If you guys can see Steve
Rifkin's face right now, but he is like do I
need to talk? This is the kind of show in
which we're just finding out that we're on Youtube, or
at least we haven't really pumped from the show fact up.
So I should I now say that, Ladies and Gentlemen,
I don't know if you know this, but you know
since what episode? What was our first? Tevin camp, it

(05:00):
was our first. It wasn't. No who goes further back then?
That Jake. What was the first? Oh Jeez, what was it?
MAYBE MONICA LYNCH? Jesus Christ. We so, yeah, you go
on Youtube, you can actually watch these episodes and I
pray that you don't, because we're motley lie is Glam
but the rest of us, I don't know. Mr Rifkin,
how are you? I'm great. How are you guys? I'm great. Um,

(05:24):
happy to have you. I'm excited. I gotta tell you
a funny story. When the gold steam signed, I do it. No, no,
don't even. I'm gonna ask you about the story. Don't even. Sorry,
big start. Sorry, I was like, wait, should I ask
you about the way they go see a story. So

(05:45):
when he signed you, I mean you guys, and she
signed another artist. You know that artist was right jes.
So she calls me. But besides that, I had the
Stephen Rifken Company, which had all the street team and
the whole street marketing stuff. So she goes hey, Um,
jeff is having a conference. Will you come and speak?

(06:05):
And I'm like about what she goes about? You know
the marketing, you know it's really a rock and roll
label and you know we just signed Jizzer and we
just signed actually I think she said she just signed
you guys that day. Yeah, and I'm like, but I
need to like drive a Peter Vegas. I knew Wendy
but I really didn't know where that well, I'm like
do I really want to be in a car with
her for five hours, you know? But the the amazing

(06:28):
thing was I didn't even want to hear jess album.
All I heard you guys had like a three or
four song demo and I kept it on repeat for
five hours. And then so we get there, my alcohol
to the restaurant, we have dinner at the restaurant, I
go back to my room and I'm just a man.

(06:50):
I was like this is some groundbreaking ship and I
must have lost in those days. I must have lost
like was like fifty dollars that, you know, I was
just starting out. Listen five o'clock in the morning and
I went to the craft table and just I don't
remember the name of their songs, but motivated me and

(07:11):
I ended up winning five thousand dollars and I throw
one a million dollars, all because of the roots. So
thank you, Oh ship. All right, Steve Rifkin, wait, I
was see I was going to ask you. All right,
so you would have signed them. Then I'm just going
to ask the fans but no, no, we signed them.
I didn't had you had the opportunity, right, because they

(07:32):
were already signed. I will say that loud was one
of the three labels that we didn't go to, only because, literally,
I mean I've said the story before. You know, the
roots were going to sign to mercury, to polygram and
we were like super excited. Oh Man, black seat is

(07:53):
going to be our label mates. Da Da, DA, da Da.
And they gave us the contract and three of the
names were misspelled. So the track was an all envoid
because three names were misspelled and they were like send
a new contract with our correct names spelled. And in
that seventy two hour period, Wendy Goldstein literally came and
swooped down and, you know, like we did the audition

(08:17):
for a Geffen because we wanted a free dinner. You Remember,
book binders on and right by that point we you know,
we we were like impressed with like wow, they have
orange juices in the refrigerator, like that's how impressed we
were with that's the first thing. Like we went to
Wendy Gold Sis office and guess what, she had a mirror.

(08:37):
She had orange juice in the refrigerator. All you can
drink and we're like what? But literally we were like,
all right, we're gonna do it for the free lobster
and steak and then we'll sign to polygram. And just
at the table, we literally were like, all right, let's
call her bluff and just be like alright, we we
need two cars and we need like three apartments and

(09:00):
we want a full studio, Da Da, Da, Da da
and a partridge in a pear tree. And she funked
around and called our bluff and was like okay, and
suddenly no other label mattered anymore because, like it was
like ship, she's given us everything we want. So who

(09:22):
mercury was gonna sign you, Ken Yada Bell Yo, the
anger that he had for I always wanted to know
what happened to his assistant that messed up that contract,
like he was near I'm not trying to be hyperbolic,
like your suicidal, but you know, I've talked to Ed
Eckstein since that moment and let's just say the building

(09:44):
was not happy with losing the roots on a technicality.
But so my cousin was head of sales and this
is when they had a sales department and they were
right stars. He was head of sales and Mercury and
I remember him. I didn't know that he was I mean,
I didn't know that you were supposed to sign with them.
So he's my older cousin and I really looked up

(10:05):
to him. So I was telling that, you know, I
had to do this. I had to speak in Vegas
to this rock and roll crowd which, like, I mean,
I was definitely talking a different language, and and he goes,
we were supposed to sign him. He didn't know, he
didn't know exactly what happened, but he knew about you guys.
I said, I said a man, that you guys fucked up. Oh,

(10:25):
they were angry. They were angry. I want to skip,
since we're talking this and this is this is the
thing that I wanted to ask you, because you know,
I know that. I mean basically, the first album and
a half was made extremely, like just just unorthodox. We
we did not have his staff whatsoever at Geff and

(10:48):
all we have was Wendy Goldstein and like seven credit
cards and so Um, you know, we established trust with
them where they were like here, here the credit cards. Don't,
you know, start traveling to rub or whatever, like be responsible.
We were super responsible, but essentially we were calling out
for favors from almost every label, you included, like, you know,

(11:09):
Steve riff on Handel street promotions and that at Def Jam,
like Jessica and Derek will handle that at Def Jam.
Like we were literally moonlighting every label for do you
want more? And the thing was, even though you could
do that, I don't. You know, it was just different
back then. But here here's the question I have. So

(11:30):
can you, and I want you to explain to me,
because this is what I never got explained to me.
At least the system, like you remember the periodical? I
think that it was called hits. It's a still thing. Yeah, okay,
so I knew for us there was. There was a
system of you break in college first and then after

(11:53):
the college, then you break to mainstream radio. And the
roots released their first single the same at least we
were under the impression that we were released the same
time that biggie released juicy. Now this is what I
think happened. What I believed happened was that the buzz

(12:14):
for juicy was so big that they leaked at a
week early, maybe like two days early. So the initial
numbers of our first single, which I think was like
distortion of static versus juicy, was like Oh, we're gonna
crush biggie book. What I think happened was we had
a full week, seven days of adds on, whereas maybe

(12:40):
like they decided to just, you know, leak juicy a
day early. So it's like a week of the roots
versus one day of Biggie, and we were just under
the impression of like Oh, ship man, we're gonna be
kings of the world. Like we were like that whole week.
It was like whatever the equivalent of in cigars, one

(13:00):
hundred dollar bills and champagne everywhere, only for the next
week to come and suddenly, like biggest numbers were like
in the three digits and we were like at thirty eight,
like literally, chruss, can you explain the system of how,
at least back then, and I'm not gonna say start

(13:21):
with protect your neck, because that's just a whole another animal,
but say, if you're doing rainy days like a single,
that doesn't matter. How do you break that? First two explode?
And what's the importance of college numbers? So for me,
I made my living off a college. So let's go
just go back to you for a second. Okay, Wendy

(13:41):
was the only one who understood what I was working
those records because I was doing the whole the whole
street team, and if you guys were so alternative in
the hip hop market, I said just don't rush this,
let this just marinate and just have the guy who
live on the road. Don't worry about you. Don't worry
about anything. Haven't you just go visit cologists and maybe

(14:02):
even some mixed shows, and that's it. I mean I
never really even saw you guys. I didn't even see
a video yet, but just sonically what I heard, I
was like remember, like digglet planets, right, I mean it
was that that, I mean that took eighteen months to break. Hmm,
what we forget this? Because, yeah, yeah, so, you know,

(14:23):
and stretching stretch of Barbito broke down record. That was
on a new label called pendulum records. That was right. So,
and I would I forget who the head of promotional
I think it's his name was Steve Too, and I
just forget who the head of promotion was. And I
was like, you don't have to worry about radio. Let
us just keep this at college. Radio. Brian Sampson, who

(14:45):
was running the Gavin report Um at college radio, was
flipping over the music and and that's all we needed
right this second, and they just wanted to take it
to radio and then, you know, it was. It was now,
of course, the second part of that story was like
we were like super depressed and thought like our lives

(15:05):
were over and you know, but now that thirty years
have passed, it's it's almost like, you know, this, this
tortoise and the hair journey that we took was worth
it all, you know, to kind of still be here.
But for me, I just never because we weren't in
the states, you know, we were living in Europe, so

(15:25):
between like nine three and I had zero clue of
what the system was on how to to jump in
the double Dutch rope and thrive and survive like that
sort of thing. And you know, because we were asked
like can we do, Jacob Rapper, can we do? How
can I be down, like all those things that we

(15:46):
hear about, and we just always felt like Rudolph the
red things, like we we didn't even start meeting hip
hop gods, like, you know, we didn't meet Wu Tang
until like nine at that at that Great Day in Harlem. Shoot,
that was the that was like the first ever did
the Convention Circuit Y'all Ned we were living in Europe,

(16:11):
just like our whole thing. was like, well, you know,
we're not going to be breakout stars in the states,
so we better just like plan our seeds for longevity
over here in Europe and by things to while apart.
They were like, okay, you guys gotta come home and
actually promote this record, not like there. But Anyway, I digress.
I do want to start from the beginning, Steve. What

(16:33):
was your very first musical memory? My very first musical
memory was five years old at the Apollo theater watching
in Jackson Five. Wow, do you know what year this was?
I did six. This is the third story we've had
of people that have been at that particular Jackson's concert.

(16:58):
In No, I was with my dad. I was with
my dad. So my dad managed a dj Um called
Tommy smalls. That Tommy had a club up and home
called smallst Paradise Knights. That's real. I never I'm sorry,
I got sorry. So before Frankie Crockett, Tommy smalls was

(17:19):
the most powerful DJ in urban music and it was
a station called W W R L and it was
based out in Jersey. I saw the Jack of five,
you know, on the Ed Sullivan Show, and then like
two weeks later there the Apolo and it was it
was my first life show. I loved the scene had set.
We were on the stage. Of course. That's what I

(17:40):
didn't want to assume. How old were you when you
recognized what Your Dad did? Man, I have the feeling
that he kind of lured you into the business early
or without knowing, or trained you without knowing it was
my grandfather. I was Major League, like I didn't know

(18:01):
how to read a right to sport team fifteen years old. Okay.
So I was getting in a lot of trouble, and
not that I need you know, I didn't need to
steal because I didn't need the money. You know, my
dad had James Brown, you know, Joe Simon back back then.
So I was just doing it to look, to get
to attention, but it was really getting to a place
where I was a good go to jailor get killed.

(18:23):
And like my grandfather called me down to Florida. will
all the juice go? And he was in the nightclub
business and he said he said, Um, he goes. He goes,
you gotta get your ship together. He goes, YOU'RE gonna
end up dead or in jail, and he goes, why
don't you do what your cousin Randy did, my cousin
who worked that album. I go what? What did he do?

(18:44):
Because he goes to visit radio stations. I'm like, who
am I gonna do it for? He goes, if I go,
my father wants something to do with me. He goes
and my follows, partners with my uncle and because I'll
deal with it. So like a week later he calls
the house. You know, there were no cell phones. This
is nine seventy nine and he just picked me up

(19:06):
at the airport at four o'clock. So I go pick
them up at the airport. I go where we're going?
That's what I was going back to my house because
now going into the city, we could go see your
father and uncle, and they pretty much sit me down.
They said you're gonna go on the road for three
weeks and you didn't go visit radio stations. So I'm

(19:26):
eighteen years old and those three weeks turned to be
close to three years, but little into three years where
Zig zagged all across the country. You know, I always
had ten dollars worth of quarters. There were no cell phones,
there was no GPS. I didn't even know how to
read a map. I would just get a pay phone,
put in fifty cents, I called the next station. How

(19:47):
do I get there from here? And I would write
it down long and I wish I still had the book. Really. Yeah,
so radio promotions? Yeah, there was, there was. There was
no mixture. There wasn't anything at the time. You know,
it's just so I'm clear now. You know, when I
mentioned spring records, which is, you know, a subsidiary of
of polydoor was he was your father promoting all black

(20:12):
acts or on polydor like this also include Mandrel and
James Brown as well, or just strictly the spring acts,
like Millie Jackson, Joe Simon. So James, my dad wrote
polygram into the states. Oh so he gave James Brown
his first offer. Yeah, so, so what happened was polygram.

(20:33):
I think the president's name was Erwin Steinberg. Yes, time
he goes, he goes give us Um, give us James
under the Polygram logo, but you'll eat the way. It's
your label. They weren't still signed to you. So he
would have been on spring records. He would have, but
it was. It was like Polygram's first urban artist. So

(20:55):
I mean James were formed up my Obama, Mitza. What?
He can't skip that ship. Wait, thirteen was what year
for you? When you were you born? I was born
sixty two. Is Febuary One d damn. Yeah, Mustache James

(21:23):
Out of curiosity. Do you know what, at least what
negotiations were just in terms of him leaving king? I
never knew how he went from King to polygraph. I
was eight, you know, probably so. You know, my dad
was really a special guy, like he really like you know,

(21:45):
he didn't see color. You know, you mentioned Jack the
rapper earlier, right, you know. So, and you know Jack,
Jack Start off in the radio and then he became
like a promotion guy, you know. And Jack was really
light skinned, you know. Right, yeah, almost, yeah, asks, and
and and the whole and the hotels, you know, they
wouldn't let black people seep in certain hotels. You know,

(22:07):
my dad would bring him into the hotel. Wow, did
they know he was black? When? Because Jack could have
went either way, don't he just passed him. Yeah, but, but,
but the thing was that if they did, you know,
there'd be two dead bodies, you know, and my father,
you know, kept this. You know his guys. You know,
nobody was allowed to even got in the room. Can
I ask you, Steve, was fascinating because you said like

(22:30):
so your dad has been on this side of when
did he start getting into music in this lane, like
in this R and B Lane? Was it your grandfather,
because you said your grandfather was also a part of
your process. So my my grandfather from the club called
the boulevard. So you had the COPPA, which was which
was like the highlight, you know, the major player, but
before you, before you could even get a shot at

(22:52):
the COPA, you had a kick ass at the Boulevard,
and the boulevard was was in Queens, on Queens Boulevard,
you know. So it would happened? Was You know, my
grandfather was somebody that you didn't want to mess with.
You know, his three best friends were, you know, pretty
powerful guys. Yeah, I was gonna say I'm always curious
about the I mean the only person I know this

(23:14):
era that had muscle that often our guest talks about
is Mars Levy. Yeah, Mars. Mars had a lot of us,
but my grandfather was extremely close with Mars. But my
grandfather would put you in the headlock and said my
two sons have to matage. Oh, so flip Wilson came
out of that, came out of that, sherrells came out

(23:35):
of there. Um, I could call my mom and I
could just, you know, find out a hope. So everybody.
But yeah, according to you, what year did quote? That
level of business and and the what I what I
dubbed the starbucksification of it, like I don't know if

(23:56):
you remember the episode of the Sopranos when those guys
saw the like the first starbucks and they try to
go inside to shake them down and then realize like, oh,
this is like a corporate thing, this is not like
just a local mom and pop thing, and this is
when they realized that we just can't shake you down
and do business like on our level, like in your
in your mind and mind. You I know that you're

(24:19):
entering hip hop. I don't know how, as big as
your label was, you didn't somehow fall into the crossfires
of of what was I mean, they knew they couldn't
do anything to me right. So you're talking about the
East Coast, West Coast? Right. So, I mean we had

(24:39):
a passive butt off. This is in L A entity.
So we made a clear from the from the get go,
we're staying out of it, reminding our own business. And
if we'RE gonna get touched do you believe gonna get
touched back? As for all your roster too, not just USTY,
but like that was the roster everybody? Well, no, well,

(25:00):
you know. So, like when Pak was my roommate, like
I marketed pox first record when he was just signed
to end the scope directly, and he would stay with me.
We would be on the road Thursday through Monday and
even though he was living up in the bay, he
would stay with me for those two days because we
had a shipload of work. So you know, when that

(25:21):
whole thing started, I'm I'm walking into the House of
Blues and he's there, you know, and I got a
ball head, you know, and he smacks me in the head,
but you know, and it's stunk. So I don't know
if it's a love hat or a real smack. Right,
and he looked and he looked at me. Look, you're
not gonna say hello to me. I'm like, man, I
don't know where I stand with you, and he goes
tell those two little lens that I'm just doing this

(25:43):
to keep myself relevant. I love this ship. Somehow. I
knew that, somehow, and we hugged and, you know, like
two weeks later he was gone, Oh, oh ship, yeah,

(26:04):
all right, where's zigzagging back and forth? Wait, on that note,
I will, I do invite everybody to go to the
toto pockets. Have you been to the exhibit Steve Out
in L A, downtown? It's beyond all notebook pages, all everything.
I just want to say, on that note, get to
know your man. Yes, I've heard. I've heard a lot
about this beautiful. So for you, what do you consider

(26:26):
really your your true entry, as far as like both
feet on the ground? This is my entry into the
music business. What marks that for you, like what year
or what project? So it was eighty three maybe, and

(26:47):
Um with Jimmy Spide said Bill y'all ship. That's right,
that is on spring. Yeah, it was Russell's first deal.
And wait a minute, is this the connection to is
this how this makes it a cream? No, they just
did that. I knew it. I'm not I don't know
if they knew it, they just date. I mean, yet
when I heard I was like Holy Shit, I mean,

(27:09):
but who was Jimmy Spicer and fat back had a
record called spread love, yes, and then they had another one.
But actually, when you mentioned the second second singles. So,
but there was a record on the album called just
designed in the future, featuring Jerry Blodso you mean, is
this the future or is this the future? Yeah, it's
just the future. That wait, that was you guys too.

(27:32):
That was fat back. Yeah, so, Oh, ship. So they
wanted me to meet this old promotion guy they named
with David Clark, M Hm, and I'm eight, I'm twenty
one years old. That Dave Clark is in his late
sixties and he's like an old school promotion guy, but

(27:53):
one of the best promotion guys ever in the history
of promotion. And he called and he closed me up
and he says, Um, you know, we're gonna have dinner
with the it was a radio station called W H
R K because of mens. We're going to dinner and
I'm saying to myself, this guy's sixties, six, sixty seven

(28:14):
years old and he wants me to go to the
club with them afterwards and I'm like, I'm not going
to the club. So I find the college so with
the University of Memphis and uh, and I forget who
the DJ was at time, but he takes me to
the club and then Dave Clark with four the most
beautiful women I've got this year in my life, and

(28:35):
I was like motherfucker. And but literally, that's how I
ended up putting the whole street team together. I would
after going and visiting the program directors and music directors,
doing what I have to do, I started building my
own network just at college radio, and that was always
my foundation, in my base. I'm sorry, I'm also just
visualizing this in my head and now this is this

(28:58):
is totally this is a consense. All Right, okay, look,
we we've had radio people, CEO s, on the show
before and you know I've maybe dip my toe in
the water with asking these questions. So I'm gonna ask
you under the guys that yes, you know, I'm I'm
certain that the statute of limitations or the grace period

(29:21):
has passed. Now. A lot of the times when this
question gets deflected, you'd usually like, oh, so long ago,
I don't even remember. Okay, take that, Jimmy Spicer record,
you don't even have to specifically mention yourself. But if
I am a promotion guy trying to get that song

(29:43):
played on the radio, ha ha ha, what levels of
negotiations do I have to stoop to to get that
played on the radio? I mean, it really all depends
how good a promotion got. You really are. All right,
so how much? How much juice? What juice do you

(30:04):
have to use? Again, whatever story, whatever stories you can tell.
So I'm going to tell you a story. Thank you. Right,
Frankie Crocker, W B. Yes, right, right, there was a
club called the garage, Paradise, Garage, Paradise Garage, best sound
system in New York, right, and Nari was the DJ.

(30:25):
The club opened up with at six, six thirty in
the morning. Wait, what, right, I mean people. That's what
people would leave whatever club and then they would go
to this, you know, and it was a gay club
but with the best sound system in the world and
Larry was such a trendset of Djing. Wise. So I go.
I go with Frankie one night, and what's that like? Well,

(30:47):
Frank I've known frankie since I was eleven. Years old
when Frankie came home after the PAYOFA scandal. I think
my dad and a few other people Mars leaving a
few other people through a party of studio fifty four
Um and he and he goes upstairs to the DJ
booth and he staff around anywhere between thirty five minutes.

(31:09):
So you know, in those days you know the twelve inch.
You know a record to be ten to fifteen minutes long.
So whatever Larry played, stay between six thirty and seven
o'clock in the morning, Frankie was gonna add. So when
I went back the following week, I was like, he's
he I just put two and two together. So I

(31:31):
would call Wendy Goldsen said Hey, I could get the
roots record added the bls because I knew, and I'm
looking at the time and I knew Frankie's up there.
Those three records were played and I used to and
I took a a guest and it worked and I
was making a shipload of money and I would, you know,
people saying how are you doing this, and then I

(31:52):
realized I just kept it to myself. I didn't tell
my father, I didn't tell my uncle, I didn't tell
I didn't even tell Frankie. So basically you're saying, Frankie,
we use Larry live in as his human Shazam, as
his eyes and ears. Right. So everybody has eyes and ears,
like you know what what's up? So Larry was frankie's
eyes and ears. So did what I'm asking, though, is

(32:12):
the Payola truly truly stopped and what was? What was
like the case that broke Paola, like to the point
where the FEDS got involved? I mean there were a
lot of cases. There was something in the late eighties,
of the mid eighties on the pop side, but I
never really I'm being honest, I'm asking who would be

(32:33):
the person that would snitch and say, Hey, like is it?
Is it a label that can't get air time or
can't get play? And they're like, well, obviously they're playing
thriller every twelve seconds, so let's call the feds on
it's almost like the DJ drama situation to me, like
who has enough time to like make a phone call

(32:53):
to the top of the pyramid to say hey, we
gotta arrest Blah Blah Blah, because me personally, I think
I think were the markets that were probably not getting
whatever they needed to get and they were probably riding
out on the bigger markets. But you're right, who has
the time? I don't understand the rat mentality. So it's

(33:14):
only enough space, but so much space on a playlist.
So yeah, have you're taken up five slots. That's a problem.
Did you find it not? Like I know there was
a sort of a see change in around nine like
once clear channel, once a new level of radio comes
in which, like they're now pre programming songs wait ahead

(33:38):
of time for you, what was the period in which
your actual DJ, your personality? When did they lose their power,
like the Frankie croppers of the world, the taste makers? Well,
Frankie was the program direct so he never, he never
really lost his power. Like you said, I think when
the clear channels came to the world, when it when

(33:59):
it became when it became corporate. You know, you, you,
you were trying to ask earliers, like when did the
mob leave the music business? Right? Well, you know whatever.
I think once everything started getting corporate, like when Vegas
came and the major corporations started getting buying the hotels, boom.
I think when major corporations started buying the major record companies,

(34:23):
like when General Electric you know, I think, yeah, you
know so. I think that's when all that ship just
got cut to the wayside. All right, so, in your opinion,
what's the better era, the mob era of the record
business or the corporate era of the record business? To me,
the MOB era. Of course it was more of a

(34:44):
creative business. But then in mob era it was it
was a ceiling for people of color to be in
executive positions and to make decisions and stuff like that.
So it's kind of like also. But then the other
side of that is a lot of the creative you know,
a guy like Crocker or even you. I mean, if

(35:06):
you decided like you could have been the person that
broke the roots out. I know that's true. For Radio People,
it sucked. I mean, however, I will say it didn't
suck for mixed djs up until the odds, because, although
corporate took over radio, mixed djs could still do their
little wiggle wiggle wiggle, you know maybe. I mean they
still like the program directors have to play this record.

(35:29):
So to ask you, I think the mixture, you guys,
but they did, they did. I just mean it was
it was a middle and the in between what a
mirror was talking about. With corporate yes, but then all
of a sudden, mixed djs had to play certain records
that their PDS were telling them that they had to play.
But I'm just saying. You also remember, if you think
about it, a mere certain djs in Philadelphia. They was
getting a couple of dollars for the big show. Yeah, well,

(35:51):
I'll say now it's a little exciting. I mean, you know,
I don't know how far what fump master flex is
doing now and which is, you know, like to me
this is probably the best thing that I've seen fumpmaster
to flex dude during his entire tenure, like at hot,

(36:12):
which is basically challenge, uh, acts to, you know, provide
him with us. Okay, you can play now, and support you. Okay,
you've got seven days to make a song and bring
it to me. And it's really at least the buzz
of it now, at least from like my inner circle.

(36:32):
Cats are now like it's almost like they have a
reason to live, like suddenly their antenna's on high and
they're like more excited to meet music now because of
the pressure of flex called me out and I gotta
have a song in seven days. So now, no, it's
it's buzzing. I mean even to the point where, you know,

(36:54):
we us like hey, we we might get that call.
Let's let's start getting our arsenal already like that. So
where things happening? So that's an interesting question for Steve
Because I was like man, it just makes me. It
really reminds me of like when mixed djs like in
every city there was a mixed Dj that was king right,
I mean kind of in a way, right radio mixed DJ.
So now I'm curious if funklass and flex and people

(37:15):
like that still have the same level of like pool
influence that they used to. Like I think with reflex,
I think he's still I think his voice is still something,
as you guys were just saying. You know, he's on
Instagram and he's challenging really to put out a record.
You know, Um, you know bus to just put something out.
The other day. You know, he challenged us to put

(37:37):
something out. So I think it's really just in your
D Na, like in your personality. You know, flex, you know,
has always you know then you know keeps brain like
he you know, he's always reinventing himself. You know, you
gotta take your hat off to him. He's making it,
he's keeping himself re little. I hope this, this spreads

(37:58):
like wildfire. Like we complaining, COMP laying about the state
of hip hop, but oftentimes, like we're not challenged to really,
you know, bring it, because oftentimes it's just a survival game,
you know, for a lot of these acts. No, you're right,
but you know what, I challenged the executives too, to
start finding the new routes, you know, and taking chances

(38:22):
and get it off your ass and be outside and
and find something new and exciting that in thirty years
from now it's gonna have fucking longevity, that it's still
gonna be relevant to something. And these executives today aren't
doing that. And that's and and and and and that's
and that's coming from the top. I'm not even blaming them.
You know, it's all about a fucking Tiktok and and

(38:43):
a number. You know, I just revamped my dad's label
and it's like, and you know, my son is running
the labies, twenty seven years old, and I'm like, his
name is douts. I'm like Alex, people still got to
touch the fucking streets and they got to touch people,
you know. So I'm the fucking way where you can

(39:03):
merge both, you know, and that's what quality control, that's
what topped you know, and it's like they still own
the streets. And so the business doesn't really change. Words Change,
but people. You know, what made the music business so great?
People took chances. I mean look like what Russell did,

(39:24):
Joe and Sylvia rap, you know, let's let's go back
to the time of flip right. I mean they all
took chances. And I know about that initial period in
eighty three. But once hip hop really truly gains momentum, what,

(39:46):
what was your view on it in terms of like
what it what it was in the mid eighties to
to late eighties during that sort of that first golden era?
What was your role in it? I was just an
independent promotion guy at the time. You know the three.
You know there's a guy by the name of Param Hicks,
was from Philly. Oh Yeah, and we we we became

(40:11):
extremely close and you know, he was extremely close to
Mike bid in from the addition and they were coming
up to New York and I was in the I
was I wasn't on the road at the time. I
was up in I was I was in New York
and he was I'm gonna be in town with Mike
from the addition. I was like all right, cool, come
by the office. We came by. I guess they're having

(40:33):
issues with their manager. They wanted to find their manager him, myself,
my dad and my uncle. We started managing the addition.
That was like six so for the awful love period, no, remember.
Now I'll tell you the we got involved with the
once in a lifetime group single. Okay, so right after,

(40:55):
right after announce yeah, yeah, okay, okay, and then, Um,
what was the any heartbreak album? So I moved to
L A and because we're managing new edition and I
hooked up with the label called delicious final, which a young,

(41:17):
YOUNGC and. Yeah, so that was my cross rip Ross
of that Bay. And then the tone video, I think
cost like five yes, and there was a gay name
or Rick Krim. Yes, just rick was at MTV and
he would just happen to be just a really good
friend of mine, you know, and MTV was playing just Rockshire.

(41:40):
So I never had any business with them and they
were start. He called me up and he said Um,
we're starting this new thing called your MTV. This wasn't
the just weekly, because we're with Freddie, with fact right.
I said, Oh, it's funny that you said that. I'm
gonna send you a video with this kid and see
if if you like it. And it was tone boat,

(42:01):
you know, and they put it in your for one
week and then they went into whatever the word was,
buzzbing or whatever, and the record just took off. All right.
So you casually just dropping these bombs. Can you pretty loud?
Can you just name other projects you just just happened
to forrest gump your way into from seven two until

(42:27):
I saw last nine, you know, the only records I
never really worked good. I mean I pretty much worked
everything except the death row and I even did some
records for Russell and and not and puff puffed in
his own thing. But ship from that's effects the E
P M D two K Solo to quit and tried

(42:48):
to well, what's the first street team? You did those like?
What was the first? Like? The first record was brand new,
being slowed down. I just I need you to break
down your whole I'm sorry, mirror, I don't even to
break down your whole mind. State of Creating Street team,
because I'm fascinated from being at a radio station and
then then turning their promo teams into street teams. And
every other record company turned in. There think your situation.

(43:09):
So tell me, please, your question, because what was the
year that you consider street team to actually be like
a flag planning moment? and Are you saying that before then? So,
so I'M gonna say. I'm gonna tell you. Okay for me, okay,
when the Brand Nubian slow down come out? All right,

(43:30):
so eighty nine? Well, no, I would say eighty nine.
I took my last three thousand dollars, MHM, and I
made these pamphlets and I sent it to all the
record companies and I came and I came to New
York and I stood up meetings with everybody and I
told them what we were gonna do. We weren't gonna
focus on radio, because you said you came from radio, right,

(43:51):
you aren't playing that many references. Yes, the people before me,
five years before me. Yes, but I got your years right.
No radio. So at the at the end of the day,
I came back with a hundred and forty six thou dollars.
One of the business, oh, pamphlet, from the pamphlet, and
it was just and I covered everything, like, you know,

(44:13):
we empowered the mixed Stoke Dj we empowered the college
radio like and just, you know, the barbershops like, and
it was just wherever there were a group of people,
we would just go and attack and just you know
where the math you know, and my philosophy is keeping
to this day. How many times have you read? To
be you, if it's a recordar movie, a restaurant, whatever
was that? The review is straight garbage. But the ship

(44:36):
was incredible, Shanky harbor reviews. I'm still here. Yeah, so
you're saying before that, like, because I can't imagine New
York without seeing snipes of an album coming out or
stickers everywhere of all those things. So between you and Renee,

(45:00):
who was the first to really that was really nice,
you know, but I'm gonna get you know, the one
when we did. I'M gonna get that Joe a lot
of credit. So when we signed pomp you drove down
the west side highway. We must have spent on post it.
I mean you're literally black and yellows from from from

(45:21):
the bridge to fucking basketball city. Why can I see those,
I can see it. That's I mean that that was
joe saying this is what we gotta do, you know,
and and that was just my philosophy. It's like I
didn't grow up on the street. The street excites me.
I mean I go to the long hour, right, so
who am I to say no to somebody like when

(45:43):
they had that type of passion and the full concept
of everybody wearing something similar to yeah, but like my
head of my the head of my street team in
New York closed me up one night fucking ecstatic because
I just wrapped the tenor of the Empire State Book.
I'm like, say what? And I'm like the antenna of

(46:04):
the I'm like, first of all, that's the dumbest thing, like,
I mean you know, like you can really it's the
dumbest thing I've ever heard because you can't see it. So,
on that note, then, have you had to bail people
out of jail and stuff, because sometimes three teams go
hard and then they fight each other with you violate
the post no bills all, like when you walk through

(46:27):
our office, like behind the exceptions, you know there was
like five bells, bottles and a bunch of criminal attorneys
pretty much in every city. Wait a minute, it just
hit me. It just hit me the night. If, if you,
you older roots fans, can remember the infamous old dirty

(46:49):
bastard moment with the roots at a at Irving Plaza.
I believe that Irving Plaza was one of the first
clubs too, and the roots not because of us in
general or or the fight between old dirty bastard. What's
what's the thing when you get spray paint and then

(47:12):
you lay a like you lay a grid on the
on the ground, and then you spray paint and then
it's just stil. Yeah, I I remember that. Um, oh,
that there was a bunch of hell on earth. There
was a bunch of mob deep hell on earth, the

(47:35):
stencils all over Irving Plaza, and you know, there was
also a bunch of Nike swishes too. Okay, boy, no, no,
I'm not playing. You know, it was just like they
were just like no more rapping or like they actually don't.

(47:58):
So for like two years, like no hip hop was
allowed in urban prest just because, like of the level
of street team. But okay, without a college degree, in
terms of knowing the power that you have with this
type of marketing. Because, you know, essentially, if you're in
a car, you got about two point nine seconds to

(48:21):
just look at your right to see something and have
it stick to your brain. Were you in terms like
doing these snipes and doing this this sort of level
of of street promotion? Were you also like designing the snipes, like,
would you know that with big Pun that yellow and
black will stand out? And so so we had our

(48:44):
own you know. So, I mean they would be working
seven like, you know, and they would just until Joe
approved whatever I needed to get done. Joe. Joe approved it. But,
you know, but with the street team, to me, everybody
us their research now, you know, and every you know,
is it doing this, it's doing that. But whatever the

(49:04):
city was in, like we knew the most popular bus,
where the kids were going, you know, from school two
to the to the Delhi or you know, whatever was.
So that that's the type of research that that we
would doing. I didn't care about anything else. Is just
where were the kids and where are the kids populating

(49:25):
and where the kids hanging out, you know, and and
and that's and that's really all I care about. I
didn't care about it. Every time we came with a record.
I would say, if we get these five stations, we'll
do three hundred thousand. We get these fifteen stations, will go, go,
we get twenty five stations, will go planet. If we
run the gamut, we gotta go multiplant. I didn't give

(49:45):
a fuck about that. Holding old like you know, I
have a corny saying. The streets don't lie and it
could be whatever. You could be on your data drive,
Prent to, what? What? Whatever it is, you know he
has got to find your base in your foundation. So,
with having this this this well oiled machine, establishing in

(50:07):
the early nineties and whatnot, why step into starting your
own label? Why not like turn this into like the
one thing you focused on and making that so so just?
It's a great question. So I think I'm a multi
multimillion I'm doing a few hundred thousand dollars a year

(50:27):
now and I come back to New York. I'm living
in L A. I come back to New York with
my cousin's wedding and there was a grabding Ma Jerry
eight from the famous artist agency, and every time I came,
every time I came to New York, he would let
me work out of his office and he goes. I
don't understand you. What do you mean? He goes, why
don't you have your own Labor? Like where, then, do
I want my own laborl I'm good, like I would

(50:48):
work at the three o'clock change, good at basketball courts, playball,
go home, shower and eating and go back to the
office and send out my reports. So you know, as
we said, really and my family really doesn't play. So
he goes. Well, we take this meeting with Paul Marshall.
I'm like, Yeah, Paul's my dad's life. So, you know, pauses,

(51:09):
I could get you this tremendous deal with B mg.
I'm like, I'm good, I don't want it right. So
by the time I get to rich ADSINGTON's apartment, who
is my partner all out of my childhood, Best Friend,
my dad's called and he goes, Um, I need you
to come to the house and you go, I'm in
this city. It's a forty five minute train ride. It's like,
who knows what time to train for the country is.
I don't give a come to the house now. And

(51:32):
he was with, you know, his some of his people,
and you know he was ready to beat the shift
out of me. He goes, don't you ever turn down
a fucking record deal? He goes, do you know the
difference between a record deal or a label deal and
what you're doing now? I'm like no, he goes. What
you're doing now you're only as good as your last
record or your last contract. With owning a record company,

(51:54):
you have true assets. So even when you're not doing something,
it could be making money. And it was probably the
first time that we ever agreed and like it clicked
into my fucking head. I was like, you know it,
you're right, and I said, you know what, I'm gonna
Call Paul in the morning and I'll go see. He
didn't believe me, knowing how fucking crazy I am, so

(52:17):
he called Paul. He says, well, he at two o'clock,
and you know, and that's how loud pretty much started.
I was just curious your father, since you guys, I
was wondering how he what he thought of about hip
hop like that put us first hipop record here. I mean.
But my dad never considered himself he never considered himself
a guy. He just considered himself a promotion guy and

(52:40):
you know, and he just truly loved people and he
didn't see, he didn't see color, he didn't see any
you know, it's like our house was like United Nations.
All right, so you guys, it was a nice evolution.
That's what I kind of mean for your family, like
you were the perfect kind of evolution. I mean Sharpton
lives in our house. The first act you signed was twister. Correct.

(53:03):
So it's it's always curious to see flagship artists on
these big labels, like you know, I'm just finding out
that Rico Suave was the first act on the interscope.
What was that about? Twister? And actually, for me I
think the first thing I heard about twister was like

(53:26):
a beef with treats from naughty by nature, like that's
what was it about twister that attracted you to him?
He said, I can sell this, or was it just
like it's dope and let me put it out? So
the record was called Mr Tunk twist, and my staff,
I was losing their mind and they were comparing I

(53:46):
forget who the League gy was, poor righteous teachers right,
whereas intelligent right, and they were comparing him to and
they were comparing him to that and just it was
my first act that I ever really you know, I
was like, all right, this could be something that's special.
So and that was the first act that I brought

(54:07):
to B mg and we found it through my we
found it through my street team and the Guy Naven
with Jack Sterling. He was out of Chicago Street Rep
and he sent it to a guy named with Faye
Dubna who was doing my college radio and Nick Show.
We was signed to quote Mick Show and and he
was managed by DJ in Chicago and G CI by

(54:29):
name of Eric The whids. I flew him out, we
did a deal and I had something to show BMG.
Let me ask you, Um, why did you choose BMG? Because,
you know, for me at least, I never considered R
C A as uh front runner in urban music, like

(54:54):
the way that Colombia was or, I'm at Maybe Warner
with with Tommy boy. But was it the fact that
they had no track record whatsoever and they offered you?
I didn't. I didn't even look at that. I just
had so much confidence to myself. You know, when I
first was going there was a name with Lou Mallia,

(55:15):
who zoo entertainment. The B B and D financed. It
was supposed to be a new company. Twisted was the
only thing that really came out of zoo and they
shut zoo down so that a guy be named Ron Urban,
who was a finance guy, who was the CEO, CFO
and CEO of our CD A. Um. He was in
Atlanta visiting this attorney, Joe Kats, and it was jack
the rapper, and we came in and I just took

(55:38):
a liking to Rome and he says, you know, I
say it now. He goes, you give me an inch
and I'll give you whatever you need. So and it
was like how much you can be lifting? Are you
gonna need from us? I'm like, I'm not gonna give you.
Guys do a fucking thing. You know, we already we
were already staffed up through the marketing com you know,
and then we got lucky. There was somebody who worked

(55:58):
at our sea. He became my brother, pretty much, a partner,
Conan Modi, and you can see it. And Mode, you
ended up after a year, year and a half, at
R say. You know, he's been with me ever since.
I'm curious what your expectations were. Are. I guess, yeah,
what you told them, but to expect from this record?
I didn't want a penny for the what they had
to do was just give me money to make the

(56:18):
album and I think the album budgetars. I'll handle all
the marketing money and then once I get into a
hundred thousand, you gotta give me a few hundred thousand dollars.
At the time, were you trying to figure out how
to position yourself next to a Def Jam, a Tommy Boy,

(56:39):
a Jive, or were you just going to be so underground?
You were the abyss I. You know, once you really
get to know me, you know you're running a race.
You can't worry about the next person. Still't like if
you if you look over your shoulder, you're gonna trip eventually.
So Russell had DEF JAM J I've had Jib, you know.
You know in a and clive, I mean clid cobbler,

(57:01):
had to be a spot guy in the recordists. I
mean he took everybody, you know, when he's when he
when he sold. But I never, I never looked at
that way because and I looked at them as allies,
because they were still paying me to wrook their records
and it's never a conflict of interest at all. I
had to you know, no, I mean if you know me,
it's like I'm gonna be a straight shooter, like, if

(57:23):
you're gonna pay me, I'm gonna do the job and
if I can't do your job, I'm not gonna take
your money. And here's the question that you work in
their records to do you have an ear now to
say two people to other labels? Like, I know I
can work this on college and mix, but commercial this
is a more college, you know, like how does that work?

(57:43):
So by this time pretty much we were entertained with
every major. I mean I was making more money with
the marketing company that I was making with the label. Right.
So they listening to you so like we would be
part of their staff, you know. And then finally they're saying,
why are we paying you know, them so much money?
Some of the retainers, you know, got dropped and people

(58:03):
stopped putting departments in place, but they were still everybody
pretty much all came under my umbrella. MHM. So so,
you know, so like fade, who was one of my
first employees, he went over in his scope and he
actually came with the loud name. So when in his
scope cut the retainer with me, they would still put

(58:24):
me on certain records, you know. So I just said
everybody in place. All Right, I'm dying to ask you
to get in the Wootang territory, but I can't forget
what was it about. And you know, I think it's
also notable to point out that, you know, in the

(58:47):
early nineties, suddenly the regional lism of of hip hop
is expanding more. You know, of course we saw it
like the ghetto boys and wrap a lot in Houston. Happened,
like really to go mainstream in the nineties and then suddenly,
like we're realizing that Oh, California has good MCS and

(59:07):
this territory in Atlanta and new you know, that sort
of thing. For you, though, with the signing of the
alcoholics and mad cap, especially mad cap, I was one
of those people that, you know, I saw like a
madcap show and you know, the mad cap was like
just listen to that tape. And I listened to that
tape so much like they were like a mixture of

(59:29):
they were kind of the idea of what I thought,
because even in three I didn't know what the roots
were going to be. So the reason why you like
madcap so much. The Trumpet Play Right and he was
live right, but also, I mean, you know, like that
there were live elements on that record. And you know, again,

(59:51):
we we were just starting our first record and we
weren't in full agreeance on whether or not what we
were in concert should also be the same thing that
we're on in the studio. Actually, I was. I was
against it. I'm like, we don't want to be a
band in the studio, like let's be a regular rap group.
But I heard the cap record and I was like, Oh,

(01:00:14):
all right, between that and what the far side was doing,
then I was like, okay, I see an entry there.
But for me, or you at least, like why? Were
they just too early for their time? I think they
were a little bit too early for the time. And then,
you know, they had two records that I thought could
have been the first single, Um, the kitten caboodle, produced

(01:00:38):
by Broadway, and then right the second record, group in
the putting in, which was, you know, a lot of
live instruments. Um, I think, of course, you know, the
only one who really had it. And they were from Pasadena.
They weren't from South Centera. So even though Pasadena was
a huge, I mean a tough fucking area, it still
wasn't south central and south and south side was already branned. Right,

(01:01:01):
so easy, I had a lot and all that. So
you know, and it was and it wasn't music right.
I mean it was more hippie music. And you know,
and I tell this to Broadway. I haven't spoken to
him in a while, but I tell us the broad
away all the time, but there was a hook in
the whole kitboodle. Directly would have been a fucking monster.

(01:01:25):
You're right, you know. And but the funny, the great
thing now is, though, coke, who was in the group,
you know it, was a huge director now, really, yeah,
huge movie director, like does the amazing urban films, you know,
and he you know, and he and he finances in
the helth and he just you know, he runs the board.

(01:01:46):
I mean it's it's stuck an amazing what you's doing.
Well then, let me ask you about the alcoholics, because
you know, that was also an era of which we're
you know, we had our idea of what l a was,
and then groups like the far side, the alcoholics, groups
like soulier mischief. We were, you know, up in the

(01:02:06):
bay area, and the whole high road crew, like we
didn't know it was like an anomaly. Like when we
first heard the alcoholics, were like wait, they're from California.
Sound like this. How did how did you come across there?
So fade went to see. He went to the studio
and he's swift was M was there, and you should

(01:02:31):
they just shows up in my hands like eleven o'clock
at night, like pounding on the fucking dog. He's like
I just found, you know, the best thing, you know,
since white bread, you know, and it was just like
you gotta come to the studio now again, I'm like,
I'm not. I'm not going to the studio. I didn't
believe it. To me, I didn't really believe in the
studio because, I mean, I need it. Only bet should
happened in studios. So I was like not, like the untrue.

(01:02:59):
They'll come in the office in the morning or whatever.
And just it was a Friday. It was a Thursday
night when he came pounding on the door and they
came up the original demo to me, I thought they
were the next CPM D yeah, nothing, I I can't
even like I wish I could just bottle up like
when you're living in it, you just take for granted

(01:03:20):
that this sort of brilliance is just going to be
the norm. So you, you know, you just you don't
take a time out to really appreciate it. But yeah,
nothing will ever be the feeling of you know, I
come from Philly and which you know, cosmic, Kev a,
J shine just steph like basically are our version of
stretching barbato at Drexel University would play that whole album insanely,

(01:03:45):
like just on radio, and the West Coast loved them.
But again, it wasn't n w a a les and
Dre Stupid, just comic right. So they hadn't met I
mean rap did a lot of their videos. MHM, wait
a minute. Okay, this is this is a crazy off
kilter question, but only because I'm I'm okay. Yeah, I'm

(01:04:09):
working on soul train right now to get the alcoholics
mainstream soul train play. And Don's like notorious for not
like literally like I think there's I've counted three dance
lines to make room, which is just unheard of for

(01:04:29):
like a real rap song that potent to get like
almost that level of love. I was like when when
the alcoholics were like regularly played on soul train, which
a group of that level should have just been underground

(01:04:50):
status and maybe some MTV love that sort of thing.
But no, Don Cornelius era, really, how did you guys
pull this off? We we, we knew the book and
don't truly loved the record. Huh, it's it's just unheard of.
It's unheard of. All right, all right, I gotta do it.
So make room wasn't even though they were from the

(01:05:12):
West Coast. There was a non threatening record. They didn't
really curse on the record, I know. Like. So they
were humorous, they were funny. So and then the production
was awesome. That's what I like. Can I can I
just ask real quick, Steve, at this point? Are you developed?
What is the loud philosophy like? Because you, like you said,

(01:05:34):
you ain't deaf jam, you ain't job. We all know this.
We know we went to loud for certain things, but
like in your mind, what is it? So I didn't
really have an a in our staff yet. So to
me backap of self contained. Alcoholics are self contained and
we had we did okay with them. Twister wasn't self

(01:05:54):
contained and you know, even though he broke, you know,
we did marketing. Wise, we did an amazing job we had.
We flew into the guy from the Guinnisbrooken world records
from London and we had we had him on MTV
and behind him he was, you know, voted the fastest
rapper in the world. But really, you know, it wasn't

(01:06:15):
an amazing album. So I needed people who can really
be self contained. Right. That's the that's the commonality. And
then from that BLU Tang self containing self contin okay,
now let me ask you, we're here, knowing what you

(01:06:38):
know now, knowing what you know now, of the past
thirty years of Wo Tangology, would you have struck a
different deal with there is a you still would have
just give them their running papers. I'm gonna tell you what. Why?

(01:06:58):
Thirty years is it still talked two or three times
a week? Right, I will never fight over money. So
by me, I was in survival mode. I needed that Plat,
I needed a gold that right. So when, right, I
met them on watch third, a day after my thirty
first birthday. I was with east swift. I was with

(01:07:20):
east split from the alcoholics. We're in New York. I'M
gonna guest office in New York and the receptionists comes,
you know, in those days there was security, right, you know,
we just pop up a direct right, right, and they
said a print track. He is here. I've been trying
to chase him down since the beginning of the year

(01:07:43):
and he shows up and it's me. So he's talking.
He goes. I have the guys downstairs now. I don't
know if they are three guys, nine guys, you know,
whatever it is, but I'm in an office as big
as the fucking square on my zoom rights a second
right and he swift is behind me and they performed
protect you and that live to the record. Somebody comes
barging into the room and says that's that ship. I

(01:08:07):
don't know if he was in the animal risis. Set
me up right and you and he left. I never
saw the guy again, but the energy in that fucking
room was ridiculous. And rison said this is the only
way we're gonna do the deal and I was like,
you know what, I was managing new addition. Ralph was

(01:08:27):
always threatening to leave and the only and the only
one where the group to me, was always bigger than
the solo artists, except for Michael Jackson. But even when
Michael Jackson tour, when it came time to do a
Jackson tour or the Jackson tribe or whatever they called
at the end, they still out did Michael's talk. Wait,

(01:08:51):
I wanted to ask. I wanted to ask because even
at the essence festival this year I was like this
might be the rare case in which Tito is more
successful than Michael. How did that? How did that affect Ralph,
at least during that time? You know, I know that.

(01:09:12):
I don't know when you left new addition, but you
know you were there for a heartbreaking which when when
they came to you with the idea of like hey,
we're gonna do our side project with poison? Were you
guys like whatever? I know, I know I was already
at the sky. I was, but I was there when
Mike calubed me and said we want to put Johnny

(01:09:33):
in the group. So you know, I got it wrapped up.
The leads. We have a lead singer. Okay, so it
was like that. But but at the end of the day,
like I just always believed, the group is still always
be bigger than the whole. And the truth of the
matter is he let me still have matching rights, but unprecedented.

(01:09:53):
You heard method man's voice it was like, I'll let
you go. So wait. So then, Steve, this was portrayed
correctly in the saga of the would then right, because
they did this whole process on this show, on the
Hulu show. Yeah, okay, cheap, not alone. Right. So, how

(01:10:16):
many albums do you think I saw between tank forever
and I get it, and I get it, and you're
not the bad guy, and you're not the bad guy
like I just remember in the show, and I still
had the best album. I know, but all right, but look,

(01:10:36):
but look again again. I'm just saying that this is
lightning in a bottle. You literally have super friends. And yes,
I agree that when, when the smoke is cleared, the
Cuban links is probably I almost feel like, yes, I
know that we can't say anything bad about into the

(01:10:58):
Woud Tang, but for me, like Cuban links is the
pinnacle project. Everybody agrees that should have been the second album.
Part of me wasn't a little bit greedy, like let
me take dirty or at least get method man. First
of all, dirty was already signed and but, but, but, but, but,

(01:11:19):
this is this is where my head's at and and
this is my thing. I still made money right, because
when dirty was signed to Electra, I still had the
marketing company. Electra paid me triple what I normally got.
Get and paid me triple what I normally got. Right.
So I was good and, like I said, I'm not

(01:11:41):
gonna fight over money and I'm not and I'm not greedy. Right.
So I did okay, and I feel I won and
it made loud what it was and it gave me
the reputation that the artists came first. You forget I
also got arrested fighting for that. Whoa what happened? Remember?
I remember this renegotiating raised first album, Cuban links and

(01:12:06):
Moutang's second deal and second album. They came into renegotiate
and I'm supposed to be on our SA side. But
before that even happened, me his ways and my attorney,
they came in. We came in and we're going to Um,
we're gonna do this together. I haven't gotten pay yet.

(01:12:28):
I'm making my money through the marketing company, right, you know,
we we're like a million and a half records. So
now and the business affairs that she was a woman.
It's holding still for twenty dollars and I'm like and
bring the pain is blowing the funk up and I'm
like just give him the twenty dollars already a fucking check,

(01:12:51):
like I'll figure a wait to get him the twenty hours.
I never they hit a woman in my life to
this day. You know right. But she says go fund yourself.
Steve Frikin, one of the thirty six conferent room. I
take this chair and I meant to throw the chair
through that window. That's gonna break the window and it's
gonna land on somebody on Broadway. I catched the chair.
I just lookate my thumb. I turned around and I

(01:13:14):
throw it through the glass door in in the lobby
and they called the cops. Cops came the rest of me.
It was a Friday. I just found out I was
having my first child three days before that and damn,
that's it was intense, right. I didn't there was no email,

(01:13:36):
so that this was literally I sent them a voicemail.
I sent them a calall was I was in Florida
for Thanksgiving and met the man. Just did add first week. No,
you know, like those numbers were crazy. I's like you
just sucked yourself like and rezon wouldn't sign the deal

(01:13:58):
yet until you know. And I went off and it
just created a war between Um me and BMG. But
the thing was says, don't worry, we're gonna come back
in in February and we're gonna take up at every
penny they have. And they ended up getting a new

(01:14:21):
CEO and a new president and we came in and
we put them in a headlock. It's just that we
took him for every fucking penny they had. WHAT UP
TO L SPAM isn't paid bill. What Paul's part one
right here for now is this episode. It covers a
lot of brown come back next week. Part Two we're
Steve Ripton talks about just how much you wanted to
sign a con Tommy put hands on a certain film

(01:14:42):
mogul and its new venture. We had fun recording this
episode and I hope you're into it two. What's up
supreme is a production of my heart radio. For more
podcasts from my heart radio, visit the I heart radio
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