Sunny Hostin

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Question Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme.
Quess Love. What is up? Crew? Uh see, we have
a may bill. How are you? Everything? Everything's good, left

(00:20):
on the street, remains on the street. Everything's good. Yeah.
I was about to say, I commend you. I haven't
told you yet, but you guys handled that. Uh. Elmo
discovers racism like autum's been working real hard on that,
and we did some COVID town halls. We did we
did race town halls and it's been going pretty well,

(00:42):
this partnership of CNN. Yeah, it's cool, alright, alright, So
we also got a fine tacolo in the house. What up?
What's going on? New smoke coming out? Anything? Anything coming up?
For UM? I mean I've been working on a lot
of stuff that's about to come out. Mainly I just
been bumping the cardio MiG joint. That's been my text. Thanks,

(01:07):
I gotta admit. Yeah. Yeah, and uh, Steve, you're doing
all right? I mean sugar Steve. Yeah, I thought we
were friends now so I can dress you by your
Christian name. Christian were you and I are back at work. Now,
how does it feel? We get tested every day, so
we're safe. Yea rabbit test, y'all trump? Oh my god,

(01:31):
how y'all rabbit test? I got tested? We get tested
every day, you know, and you get your results and
how how short time yet your brain? No one, I
gotta admit, I gotta admit. Okay. So there's like four
different nurses that do it. Um the idea of the

(01:56):
sexy nurse, who are called the S and M nurse
because she wears these like really weird STI little heels.
Like everyone everyone fights to be in her room. He's
also the person and like, god damn, she damn nearly
cleans your brain out like she her bedside manner is
too rough. So I like the the other gentle nasal tester.

(02:21):
But yeah, we get tested every day. Like to answer
your question, yes, I asked. Our guests get tested. It's
always listen, it's always it's always customary that we say
hello to each other first, so that people know that,
you know, we don't picker. How how are you like?
I'm good? Ebody should know that I am sweating because

(02:43):
I am very excited about our guests, and that's why
I'm sweating. But that's good. Well, yes, let's get to
our guests. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome our guest today. She
is a four time Daytime Emmy Award winner. Yes, is
a lawyer, a journalist of course. She is host of

(03:03):
her own true crime series and called Investigation Discovery UH.
Future bestselling author uh this fall. She has a book
called I AMBS Truths, a memoir of identity, justice and
living between two worlds. That is extreme. We're all excited,
but is mega excited about this? Now to be outdone?

(03:23):
Your first uh s, I'll say fiction or your first
UM novel will also beyond one entitled uh Summer on
the Bluffs, which has nothing to do with Curtis Snow.
But I saw that. I was like a minute that

(03:44):
has nothing to do with Curtis Snow Snow on the bluff.
She is also I like to think of myself as
a chicken farmer as well because of where I'm quarantining.
She's a fellow chicken farmer uh from the Bookie down Bronx.
But she's based lead you know, well known and loved
as a member one fifth of the fiery, passionate, informed,

(04:07):
and opinionated ladies uh known as the crew from the view.
Let my fellow cue all unlesson's also know that the
five of us have very good for We generally agree
on most things around here. Can you guys imagine if
like me, Stephen Layer were kind of like Megan, Abby

(04:27):
will be into it anyway, Please welcome to you all
that sunny hostin Please thank Yeah. Okay, I have one
question for I want to get the first question out
before right now. No not does it get exhausting if

(04:52):
I'm being honest, you know, um, it gets exhausting for
a lot of reasons. But I think it's very difficult
to maintain um, your composure when you're talking about things
that people generally feel uncomfortable talking about, and you know
you're talking about them in front of three million people,

(05:14):
and you know you have to come back and talk
about them again. So you can't burn bridges, but sometimes
you want to. You kind of want to not only
burn them, you want to blow them up. And it's
also hard as a woman and a woman of color
when I know that there are all these tropes out

(05:36):
there all the time, angry black woman, two emotional, irrational
um and I know because I hear from our viewers
that they feel that I represent them, um, and so
I do not want to be a poor representation of
the people, So I have to think about all that
when I'm there. Yeah, I feel like for a lot

(06:01):
of viewers of the show, especially pre COVID, I will
say that there's a majority of the people that I know,
especially like where Steve and I work. Steve and I
work at thirty Rockefeller Plaza. So I think oftentimes people
think like, oh, well, I'm cool roots, uh the roots
in a mirror, so I'm not racist, or I'm not

(06:25):
you know, or those things where it's like, well, your
friends with your coworkers, so thus you're on the right
side of history. I often feel as though I feel
like you and Whoopee might be the only point of
view of a person of color or a woman that
most of Middle America or I want and I don't

(06:46):
want to just say like only housewives watch the view,
like anyone who's home during those morning the afternoon hours
watches it. But yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that.
I often feel as though people channel into YouTube for
opinions that they might otherwise not know about because they

(07:09):
don't have friends that they're close to, so I feel
like there's an added pressure on you. But when the
when the cameras are off and the show is done,
how awkward is that walk back to the dressing room
for the five of you, especially if it's unsettled. Yeah,
it depends on the day, you know, in all honesty,
because we know we have to Yeah, I mean, we know,

(07:32):
we know we're going to uh work together the next day.
Um and we may have had a really uncomfortable conversation.
And what a lot of people don't know is, you know,
we're totally unscripted. We don't know when anyone is going
to say, we know the topics, we don't even know
the questions that are coming at us. So after it

(07:53):
blows up and we're giving our honest feedback, especially during
these times at COVID and the pandemic and this presidency
and you know, this administration, and I think what's become
a racial reckoning, tempers are flaring, um and and sometimes
it's hard to you know, look at your colleague and

(08:14):
not be emotional and upset and wondering where where where
did that come from? Most times, though, I'll be honest,
we we reach back out to each other. It may
take a day, it may take two days, but um,
and sometimes it's immediate. We will text each other, we
will call each other, UM and say what was that. Um.

(08:34):
We we have that relationship with each other. Now we've
done that, guys. Yeah, yeah, not which we've done. We've
we've done that happens. You have to because at the
end of the day. It's kind of like another family too.
So you know this. You always like each other, you
do love each other, and you you know, want to

(08:56):
make sure that you know that right. Yeah. And we're
dysfunctional like every other family you know. So there it
is what it is. And imagine a family that you
didn't choose, um, and a family that is we're all
very different, different ages, different backgrounds. We we are as
different as you could be, all thrown together. I watch

(09:18):
you maneuver with the age thing, and that's why I
see you and to see you and whoopy, because that's
the interested in area, because you'll have very different backgrounds
and very different views at times. A lot of times
you get this the same, but sometimes your experiences and
her experience is coming to and I watch you, you know,
gracefully go in your mind to me, I go, you go,
that's my elder. Let me listen to her. And absolutely, absolutely,

(09:41):
you know, I think at least that's how I was raised. Um,
you know, you're speaking to someone of a different generation.
You do that with respect. Even if you disagree, you
just disagree respectfully. Not everyone was raised that way, but
that's how I was raised. So that's how I comport myself.
How how hard is it, especially when you have to

(10:04):
give so many teachable moments in sound bites within these
like eight to nine minute increments, and the five of
you have the platform, Like I will say right now,
the five of us have a rhythm or energy that
we didn't have maybe the first twenty episodes where we

(10:26):
were talking on top of each other that sort of yeah,
I don't say anymore, that's my rhythms. But oftentimes, uh, well,
you've been there for two years now, correct, four four okay,

(10:49):
believe it or not, has been two years long, so
even in being there were four years and new blood
comes in, um, you know, and oftentimes, you know, I
think that often when producers or executive producers are looking
for someone to fit in, they're thinking about ratings, they're

(11:11):
thinking about who who's controversial, who's rebel rousers? So you
kind of you kind of have to wonder like who's
there just to be the sound bite of the moment
on social media or who's there to really make a
teachable moment to teach America and teach each other about
how you feel as a human, Like how hard is
it to talking sound bites that are sustinct and and

(11:36):
to the point, and also trying to make a teachable moment?
Like do you ever feel as though, you know, I mean,
obviously I'm trying not to make this about Megan, but
I'm just saying, like, do you ever that there will
be a teachable moment for her? Where sorry? Yeah, I

(11:58):
mean there have been some, but I almost feel like
sometimes it's nine steps for it and then backwards. M hm.
As as far as like, how concerned are you about
making a teachable moment in which the person really understands
and not in that way where it's just like, oh,
you're an exception to the rule, you're the good one.
But yeah, well, you know, I think when I when

(12:21):
I am um thinking in the moment, I'm a quick thinker.
I think pretty quickly on my feet. I think it's
my training as a lawyer. UM. But I know what
my job is, UM. And I know my job is
to teach. My job, you know, when you have that
kind of platform, you have to teach. And I'm not
only trying to teach or inform my colleagues, I'm trying

(12:43):
to inform someone in you know, somewhere someplace in the
country that hasn't heard that kind of point of view.
Like you mentioned earlier that I'm sometimes the only person
of color that they that they've seen, that they that
that they can engage with. Um. And people do engage
on social media, that's absolutely sure. UM, And so I

(13:05):
I I try to do that. I will tell you
that it's pretty difficult, especially when it's a topic that
I know is of great import right. UM. And I
know what I say is gonna be all over the media. UM.
I know people are gonna interpret it and misinterpret it.
I think it's pretty difficult. Our show does a really

(13:27):
good job of at a break saying, Sonny, did you
say what you needed to say? Megan, did you say
what you need to say? What did you say what
you need to say? And if you're watching, oftentimes what
we will continue the conversation and that's because during the
break we've said we didn't get that out, we didn't
get that straight. I need to correct myself. UM, But
it's it's waiting. Why is she always last? I'm like Megan,

(13:48):
if you don't get in there in the second, I
think she feels I think she feels most comfortable, um,
waiting to hear what everyone is saying, because she really is. Uh.
You know, she's the youngest on our on our show.
And I really believe quest to your initial question, that
she is a work in progress, Like she is really

(14:10):
thinking things through. She's going through a lot of changes.
We're talking about, you know, the death of her father,
her hero, being pregnant for the first time, married, newly married,
having you in her life, having like me um, it's uh,
you know those who are a lot of changes, with
a lot of um in front of the public, um

(14:33):
at that age, in your early thirties. And and she's
really um, she's learning a lot of a lot of things.
I think she's questioning a lot of a lot of things.
While she's formed some opinions, they change my change. Sometimes
I hear things and I think, okay, you know, I
may I've never agree with that, but I can understand
where you're coming from, and that's what our show is about. UM, well,

(14:53):
I think it's it's changed all of us. Joy will
tell you that all the time she's been on the show,
from the very beginning, except of a couple of years
she got fired, and she she's a changed person because
of it. She's a changed person. And each host does
change you in ways that is very surprising. It's uh,
you know, I I understand more about conservative women than

(15:17):
than I ever have or even cared to. Really, what
is it that you think you understand? Now? What is
the show helped you understand that you didn't before? You know?
One of the things that I grew up in the
South Bronx, right, so, UM, and I grew up with
a certain group of people. I didn't grow up in

(15:38):
the middle of the country, although I did go to
law school in the middle of the country. So my
experience is more varied than most people. But my close
friends UM tend to mirror my opinions. We we we
agree with each other most of the time. Now all
of a sudden, I'm learning Okay, Well, if you have never,
let's say, experience the kind of poverty I experienced. You

(16:03):
take for granted a lot of things, and it takes
someone to say, you know what, not everybody has health care,
so you feel sick, you immediately get to go to
the doctor. I've had the occasion in my family someone sick.
We don't have health insurance, we don't have the ability
to go to the doctors. So we're sick and we
go to work and we get other people sick. So

(16:25):
we're not being reckless, so to speak, because we want
to be We need to feed our families, and that's
Those are the kinds of exchanges that we've had backstage,
you know, where people are like, that's reckless, that's reckless.
I'm like, no, that's poverty. And and I can understand

(16:46):
why she may feel that way. Someone one of the
hosts may feel that way because it's just not in
her experience. She doesn't have the bandwidth. She's learning it,
you know, and learn how great America isn't like three
you guys. She's she's she's really she's learning things and
we're learning from her as well. So it's it's good

(17:08):
to have have um someone who just has a different opinion.
It's it's funny you say that because, um, I think
in my second year thirty rock, like I think like
maybe one death and one major sickness. I had to
like sit out for like more than a day, and

(17:29):
the first time I was like really really sick, like
with the flu, they were kind of like, you know, well,
why the hell are you are you in? Like you
could have got a sub to sit in for you.
And you know, I came from an upbringing where like
I mean, your limbs could be hanging off, yep, you
still like you still work worked it, and they couldn't

(17:53):
understand that mentality, you know. And meanwhile, like you know,
one of them will have the sniffles and then like
run immediately to the ninth floor to like the nurses office.
I'm like, just get a Kleenex. Like I'm learning the
cultural different and whatnot. Well, you mentioned the South Bronx.
That's I know, that's where you were born. Could you

(18:15):
give us a brief synopsis of what, like you your
formative childhood was, like like the type of household you
you know, I think my my my childhood was a
lot like so many of us. My parents were teenagers.
My mom was seventeen when she got pregnant, my dad
was eighteen. They got married. Um, but she had to

(18:38):
get a g D. You know, she had all these
dreams of of going along school. Actually my father want
to go to medical school. It didn't happen for them.
He had to find a job. She got married, they
got married, she stayed at home with me, and you know,
there were plenty of days with no My father actually
is here visiting me from North Carolina because my son
just graduated high school. He said, he said to North Carolina.

(19:01):
I'm gawn. That's why I was. Really, he's right here.
He drove ten hours because he can't get on a plane.
He's in the seventies. Wasn't gonna miss his grandson's graduation
even though it was virtual. Um, we couldn't go with
New York. Huh yeah, and he um, he said to

(19:23):
me yesterday, he said, uh, we were worried about the
power going out. And I said, that's okay. I just
I'll just put some hot water on the stove. Um,
you know, if it gets cold, and I'll heat up
the room. And he was like, you remember that. I said, yeah,
I remember that because there were a lot of days
when we didn't have he didn't have water. We didn't

(19:44):
have food, open up the oven that that you know
that My cho was like, there's a lot of days.
But we always had love. That was the inch instinct
thing like we we we always had loved. My parents worked.
It was hard for them to get a job. Um,

(20:06):
and I will say for us, education was really important.
For them. It was it was the game changer. They
felt that that was a game changer. So we didn't
watch a lot of TV in our house, but there
were a lot of books and it was sort of
you know, my mom's from Puerto Rico, so I think, um,
a part of it was and so Spanish is my

(20:27):
first language, but it was Spanish and English, same household
books and work hard even though we don't have a lot,
you know, she would make my clothes, that kind of thing.
But we had love and we worked hard and things
would get better. That was sort of the the vibe
um growing up. And I didn't even realize we were

(20:48):
that poor. Are they still married? They're still alive. Um,
they're not married, but they date, which is really awkward word.
Wait a minute, Sunny, I didnt get to that part
of the book. I'm just at the part when a divorce.
That was shocking. Yeah, it's so awkward. He's at the
house now she lives here. So how long have they
been seeing each other? Yeah? I would not like that.

(21:15):
I wouldn't like where, how what? I have so many questions,
how do you do that? So ridiculous? Didn't really feel man,
he want that old thing back? Can I just tell
you though, it's funny in reading your story, Sunny, so
many parallels in that way. My parents are the same way.

(21:35):
They don't go together, but they're best friends even though
they've been divorced for thirty years. Like it's just funny.
And reading your story because you're an only child too,
so it just affects you really differently, differently. I was
devastating when they got divorced. I was upset for like,
my whole world blew up, you know, they blew up
my world and now they have the nerve to be
at my house in the kitchen. It pisses me off.

(21:58):
I'll be honest with you. It was a break. It
was a great so during the time period that you
grew up in the South bronx Um, what were your
teen years into of course? I mean our our our

(22:20):
podcast is music heavy Um, I'd be remiss it if
I didn't ask about I mean, he grew up in
the birthplace for where hip hop was actually born. Yeah.
In memoir like huh like man party jams and those things,

(22:42):
and I really did, I really did. I mean break
dancing was kind of big back then. Um as well,
Crazy Legs was out there. I remember going to the
Tunnel and seeing Slick rick Um performed with Douggie Fresh.
I was I just I loved music. I loved loved music. Um,

(23:04):
I guess you go out because I was warn't because
I wasn't necessarily allowed to go out, but I went out.
I snuck out sometimes, you know, as a little bit
of a rule breaker. I wasn't really allowed to go
out because also, you know, I was I was young.
I was twelve in high school and sixteen in college.

(23:28):
I was like, yo and so, but your parents, My
parents are more like you know, my mom was kind
of like straight, but at the same time she's like, damn,
your friends are going out, so maybe you could spend
the night out and that's when you spend the night
at the house, but then you go to the club,
right mys. My parents, um no, they were like you're
too young. And I looked young too. I looked as

(23:51):
bad young. So it was kind of, uh, you know,
a sneaking out type of thing, trying to make myself
look older. Bounces inn't like, you know, they said, bounces
back the day, picking people to get in. Um, they
knew what I looked like. Probably sure I looked sixteen, Um,

(24:16):
but it was it was you know, I I loved music,
I loved hanging out with my friends, breaking night, you know,
that kind of that kind of thing. But I will
tell you when my parents, um, after my uncle, Um,
my uncle got stabbed during an altercation and I saw it.

(24:37):
I was with him when it happened, and my mother
said he was almost killed. Um he laidter died as
a competent. I did, yeah, and it was it was horrible.
My family decided, you know, we can't live with this
kind of violence around us all the time. So they

(24:58):
kept on trying to get an apartment in Manhattan. But
because they're an interracial couple, they couldn't get an apartment.
They would go together, and you think about it, I mean,
you know, redline is such a problem, and racial bias
and housing is such a problem. But this is the seventies,
and they could not get a place to live together.
But interracial marriages had just been sanctioned by the Supreme

(25:21):
Court in sixty seven. They got married sixty eight, So
you know, seventies, there weren't that many people that that
were married from different races then. So my mother went
on her own and filled out an application in Manhattan,
and she changed her name from Rosa to Rose, and
she changed She used to go by her maiden name,

(25:43):
which is Beza, her father's a Spanish Jew, and she
changed it to Come. She used my father's last name Coming,
so she became Rose Comings. And if you look at her,
she she doesn't look of color. And she got an
apartment in Manhattan and we moved Dald Bronx, and when
my dad and I showed up, you could imagine the shock.

(26:07):
So I got the opportunity when I was um going
to high school. I I lived in Manhattan in a
better neighborhood and was able to hang out at the
clubs in Manhattan too, So that was that was the upshot.
But I split my time because my Fami, most of
my family was still the Bronx I mentioned after in
the book, and the memoir you when you tell that
story about your uncle, because sorry, it was still good.

(26:29):
I made a couple of notes, and he said, you
said that it marked the beginning of having to straddle
multiple worlds, which to me started to make sense as
a viewer of the view and the way you handle things.
And you just talked about how it becomes natural and
necessary to juggle motherhood, career, loving and knew and old friends,
and how when you moved to Manhattan your old friends

(26:50):
and the Bronx was like, oh, you knew right. They
still trip on me. It's so funny. They're like, oh,
you fancy now still this day because I have the
same friends I have any friends. Getting jumped on the subway,
I was like, sunny, I got just I did. I
got jumped on the subway. Can you tell the guys
the story please? Because I did, you did. It's horrible,

(27:14):
So it's horrible. I um. I used to have to
take the subway to subways, two trains um from where
I lived to this private school my father insisted on
sending me to on Park Avenue. And it's like I
had never experienced anything like that. You know, it was
certainly not my world and but he wanted a better

(27:36):
life for me. So they enrolled me in this this
private school with these fancy uniforms. But everybody else getting
dropped off, you know, being driven there and I'm taking
the subway and I got the outfit on, and you
become a target immediately. You're you're just a target, so
like I know, street ways, but they knew that I

(27:56):
was somehow different. And this group of girls would always
get on the six train, always gone six train, and
it was about six of them, and they would just
taunt me. Oh you this us that. Look at where
you get those shoes, Look at that uniform when you
go to school. It was just oh, that was constant,
you know. And I have very long hair. My hair

(28:17):
was like waist length, and they would say, um, you know, uh,
look at that hair, that's why you think you're cute.
And it was it was constant. It was workout three
or four months, and I realized we must all go
in to school in the same area because we were
on the same train at the same time trying to
get to school, and I would try different cars and
they would just find mem and they find me, and

(28:40):
I think it was just like they're they're you know,
their morning fun quite frankly. And then one day they
were quiet, and I was like, oh, maybe it's over.
I literally they literally we get off of this at
this at the stop there's a six street Manhattan, and
they unp me. They take one of my like my grade,

(29:05):
and just cut it off, just one. So I got
one long grade and just nothing, I mean. And I
was so traumatized. And and I had never really looked
them in the face, because that's New York real. You
don't look at the people in the face because because
now you're challenging someone. So I would hear them and say,

(29:26):
but I would just just cursory glance. So, you know,
I ran to the school. The school called the police,
and they kept on saying, do you want to identify them?
I was like, one, I don't really I didn't look
them in the face. And two can you imagine if
I identified them, you know, then I gotta get on
the train again. I just it's just not a good
right um. And so I spent the next you know,

(29:49):
I would say, six months, avoiding taking the train, walking
to school, you know, walking miles to school, taking a
buzz pretending to be ill. I have to. You know,
my cousins were like, you know, trying to take me
to school. Um, it was, it was. It was an
interesting you know, you're straddling two worlds, right, I mean,

(30:11):
that's that's I think so many of us we call
it code switching now, but um, I think many of
us are are sort of used to doing that. And
I'm used to doing that on the view too. I Mean,
there are times I gotta tell you, I feel like
my head's gonna explode, explode, and I can Yeah, I
feel like falling back into a certain code, but I

(30:34):
just know that it's not It won't serve anybody well
to do that. But the theme is is that you
constantly do this. And even when you were describing the
intricacies of being from a Puerto Rican side of the
family and a family who is from the South, and
the difference between being the light skinned cousin and the nigrita,
like the way you broke down and understood early your

(30:55):
your position and even though it upsets you, but you
were like, I get it, Yeah, I get it. It's
interesting when you, I think, when you live between worlds
like that, you know, like my father's family, he was
the first one that didn't marry a black woman, and
I'm my mother's and my mother's family, she was the
first one that didn't marry somebody that was either Latino

(31:17):
or white quite frankly, so they were you know, so
I was in unicorn. And on my father's side, they
never accepted my mother. They didn't really like it, and
because he was like, you know, cream of the crop
and why he had to marry her. And I think
that happens with some southern families and it's understandable giving
our history. And on my mother's side of the family,

(31:38):
they they accepted him, but it was more like for me,
I was always negrita, negrita, negrita. Even in Puerto Rico
negrita and Spanish people will tell you that that's a
term of endearment, but I don't think it is a

(32:05):
little bit about all. That's what it sounds like to me.
And it always felt like that, and they were like,
it's a term of endearment. I'm like, but it's phrase.
Base is colored base. I don't like it. And I
would say all the time, don't call me that, you know,
but they um, but they would ever stop when you said,
just um, No, not when I was a kid. They
don't dare now, but you know, no, when I was

(32:28):
a kid. No, it's like that's a term of endearment.
Just take it, just take it. And then you still
hear it in the Latino community, you know, Nagaragara. And
then on my father's side, it was always like, you know,
they hated my mom or didn't like my mom. Hate it.
It's strong work, but it was like, um, you know
most little girl, the pretty little girl, pretty light skinned girl,
the girl with the good hair. And it's like, so

(32:51):
you don't like the marriage, but you are exalting the
product of the marriage, product of right. That doesn't make
any sense. So it was it was sort of I was.
I grappled with that my whole life. I didn't I
didn't quite understand it. And even today I write in
the book about um I was with Anna Navarro, Don Lemon,

(33:13):
I was with Anna Navarro, I was the Don Lemon
um Candy Carter and I think just yeah, we were
eating lunch to get a candy used to be. She's
now the executive producer at Tamrin Show, but she was
my executive producer at the View and Candy's African American.
Y'all know Anna Navarro, um, and y'all know don No
he'd been treated lately. He'd been he didn't turn into

(33:35):
Don Lemon Pepper as of late. I was real black
now I was away. I'm always grouping on him. I
think he had a transformation in Ferguson when we were
there and he got too dog. We were both there,
but he uh, you know, we were talking and Anna
was like, my real name is assun un and um
and it was kind of like, you know, I find

(33:56):
not the thought you Spanish, I was really and and
she only seemed to figure it out when j Lo's
mom and I were talking speaking in Spanish. And I
should know that your viewers we have we observed that
as well. I'm glad you did. I was like, what
how how how would you not know that you were
with me at CNN. I mean, I've done hits for

(34:18):
CNN Espanolan. I don't I don't understand that. And I
think for her it was more like because I was
always so vocal about the black community and trey Von,
and she kind of thought, well, she's just black, like
she couldn't be anything else. And then so we we
kind of got over that, and she said, but I

(34:41):
apologize to you because I don't know. I just I
didn't see you as a multi dimensional person. And then
Candy said the same thing. Candy was like, well, I
owe you an apology too, because she told me one day.
I kept on wondering why when we were booking shows
like m O K shows, um and you know other
other shows, they never asked me for my connects. I

(35:04):
was like, why don't the books come to me? I mean,
I know a lot of black people. It was like,
y'all can't find anybody, why don't you come to me?
Let me open up my rollo dex. And she kind
of mentioned to me one day she was like, well,
you're not really black. I was like, so, Whoopie's the
only black person on the side. I was like, it
was just very surprising to me. And her opinion was

(35:26):
she saw me as more Latina. And so you have
these two women, one ones black ones Latina. I'm both
and they are sort of erasing me from both communities,
from from both sides. And then Don Lemon. Don and
I've been friends of a really long time, probably maybe

(35:46):
twenty years or so, and He's just he was like,
welcome to Sonny's world, because I mean that's you know,
he's dealt with his own issues, I think, being a
black man from the South and a gay man, so
he's he's traversing very his world and his fiance is white,
so he certainly has to deal with um a lot

(36:06):
of different different issues. Well, once again, how exhausting? Is it?
Very very exhausting? So what are what are family gatherings
like now for you? Because make it out in the
kitchen already told that the kitchen. No, no, no, I
just mean, you know, there's a point where if a

(36:29):
light shines with you, or if there's a success in
your life, then you'll see a lot of people's tunes
start to change. Um. And I guess maybe I've just
started to come to grips with how to you even
deal with that? Um? I mean no, I was always
like a family black sheep, and then I don't like

(36:52):
it once Once you make it, then it's like cousin
Ami jay Z has come to do you can get
those calls? Yeah, I was gonna say, like with those
do you attend you know, family reunions and those things

(37:12):
or yeah, I didn't for a while. Um, I didn't
for a while, and then um My, my father's mother
passed and I saw everyone for the first time at
her funeral in a long time, and I missed them very,
very very much. When my mother's mother passed, Um, you know,

(37:37):
unfortunately we get together what weddings and funerals a lot
of families. And when my mother's mother passed, I realized
how far apart I had started become from, you know,
both sides of my family, just in terms of trying
to work hard and like you said, kind of being
the black sheet you know, um, the other I think

(37:58):
it's brought us closer. Um. Now, I think they're passing
has brought us closer, because now more than ever, I
think we need our families. I think we need our
support systems. Um. And when you are the one that
makes it, I feel a certain sense of responsibility, um
to help the others in my family that just haven't

(38:19):
been able to do as well. You know, I got
cousins in prison, I've got you know, other cousins that
just can't afford to put their kids through school. And
so I've stepped in the gap in the in those
places because I just I think when one of us
makes it, we can really make a change for our families.

(38:40):
So I I have done that. I've taken it upon
myself to make sure that that I do that. So
how is all thing? Is that? Because as a black
person to be the one who made it, like a
lot of people, what is your relationship with the word no?

(39:05):
And I'm not asking as the host of this podcast,
I'm I need life less. Uh you know I am.
I am not great at it. I've become better at no.
I'm certainly good at no when I think that it

(39:25):
isn't good for the person asking. You know, I'm not
going to help you if if it's going to help
you destroy yourself. Um, you need you need money for
your next fix, You're not gonna get it from me.
But I do have trouble saying no when I know
I really shouldn't pile one more thing on my plate.
I try to make the time and self care I

(39:48):
think is really important, and um, I don't I know
realize that I don't spend enough time doing that because
you know, if mommy unravels um or your wife, you
on novels, everything on rabbles, the thing falls apart and
I start start things. What is your self care thing, sonny,
because you do yours all day a whole mom. And

(40:12):
then you go and then you got my chickens. I
got fifteen and I stared a place that once had seven. Yeah,
and then raccoons. I didn't know how like vile foxes

(40:32):
and records are like they've done. They go, they go,
they come right underneath. They even have things called chicken
moles that just they just like to eat chicken and
like you know, attack chickens. Well we have, we've we
lost a few at first. Um. And then my husband
he's really handy and can fix anything. He put like
the steel gauge mesh underneath the coop underneath the chicken run. Um.

(40:57):
And so we were good for a while. And then
we decided they should free range because we live we
live outside the city. Uh. We were letting the free
range and then we had a hawk attack. We had
a hawk incident. Chickens, chickens were flying everywhere. I couldn't
believe it. I was screaming, that's everywhere, like ridiculousness. Man,

(41:19):
chickens got chickens got coming from above from underneath. They
say hawks were supposed to be hunt. They supposedly hunt
and uh that solitary hunters. But there we was there
was more than one hawk. Um My vet said, it's
um possible that there was like a mother hawk teaching

(41:41):
a baby hawk. But anyway, no, I mean, but I'm
in Westchester County. That's by you, right A mirror is
that that's you out here? They've been doing that. Yeah.
Can I just say, speaking of hawks, Sonny, I want
to you to share with the guys um your initial

(42:03):
list for a mate. Um uh. And I know that
because Sunny hawk down, she hawked down on her husband.
Manny Um, I know that. Bill, if if I tell
you will find this fast? Did I did? I found
him in church? I say we met in church? In church?

(42:24):
You did him? Didn't meet a church? No? You know
you saw him in church there? Okay, our souls met there.
You see what I'm saying. Well, well, what had happened.
What happened was that my mother said that my problem

(42:46):
was that I didn't go to church enough. That's why
I couldn't meet any good men because I was a
serial dater. I was. I was dating a lot of
athletes and musicians and stuff like that. I won't tell
you musicians. I won't tell you which one. But here
goes my husband peeking, poking in his head, Hey, any church,

(43:06):
didn't meet a church? He just said, that's right, sweetheart. Man,
he knows. So I decided I was training for a marathon,
and I was in my sweats, like you know, training outfit,
and I ran into a church just to kind of
just jones and my mother just to you know, goofind

(43:28):
her and calling back and say, yeah, I met the
priests in the church. And I sat in the back
and and these two fine men walk in and I
was like, oh, they're nice looking men in the church.
And my husband goes to church every Sunday, but he
goes to church in a suit and said he had
a suit on. And it turns out that the church
was across the street from Johns Hopkins University, where he

(43:49):
was in medical school. But I didn't. I didn't know that,
you know, because I was kind of new in town
in Baltimore, and uh. I did stay at the church
and I went, you know, listen to everything, and then
I followed him outside of the church. Of course, did
she meet him at y'all? Did she meet him yet?
Met him? The process. I met him in the church,

(44:15):
so then I I After we met in the church,
then I followed him to the bagel shop and I
approached him and uh, I said, Hi, I'm new in town.
And I said, wasn't that she wasn't this discernment to
the homily so beautiful in the church? And he was, like,
you were in the church? I said, I I was,
But he just kept on looking at me because I
had a ridiculous outfit on. I mean I had, I

(44:37):
was sweaty, I mean, I looked crazy, but I was
in the church. And he was a little bit dismissive.
But he had everything I wanted because I always wanted
a man of faith. I found out at the bagel
shop that he was in medical school, so he had
something he wanted to do. You know, he was he
was on a track of um having a career. I

(44:59):
wanted someone to smoke spoke more than one language. That
was important to me. I found out that he was
born in Spain. His mother's from Spain, his father's from Haiti,
so he spoke Spanish. Spanish was his first language. Then
check then, so I got three checks. Now, then I said,
well where are you from? Because I was like, you know,
maybe he's from a corny place and maybe he won't

(45:19):
have like a vibe. He was like, I'm I'm you know,
I was born in Spain, but then we moved to
New York. So I was like check check shack, you know,
the same day. I mean, it's so good. Then he said, uh.
We started talking about where he was, you know, went
to school where. Then I he pledged, he was like, yeah,

(45:41):
I'm a member of Camp Alpha Saternity. I was like,
I was like, oh okay. I was like, it's just
so good, and um I did well, we'll say I.
I always said that my husband had to be over
six feet tall because I'm not short. Uh. He did

(46:01):
not meet that that that one qualification, but I didn't
really notice it then because I was all I saw
was shininess because he's very good looking in the face,
and he walks real tall and he's real muscular. So
I really didn't notice the height until later. So I
had to give that up. Right, I'm taller than him

(46:28):
if I have heels on, yes, I am. I never noticed.
I never noticed, but I called my friend and I
was like, I met my husband. He don't know it yet,
and She was like, oh, so he must do this.
He speaks Spanish, he's from New York, he's this, and
he's what is he six four? I was like, you

(46:49):
like you in the face. I was like, he's real
good in the face. The grill is working. I was like,
everything is good. But I don't think he's over six
ft so, but we did meet in church. This sounds
one of those rudy but this is one of those
Rudy budd moments. Yes, of course. I guess your entry

(47:16):
to where you are now starts with law school. Will
you can you say that is it that you're that
you're the manifestation of your parents uh dream to become
that professional? Like are you the result of that? How
did you even get how did you have interest in injustice?

(47:40):
And is my mother? I actually wanted to be a
broadcast journalist and my mother freaked out. She was like,
what is that gas? So gay? So? And I was like,
you know, you you put the news on TV. But
you gotta think in the eighties there weren't you know,
this wasn't like Oprah. You know, Oprah wasn't who she became.

(48:01):
And um, I think in New York there was like
Carol Jenkins. But there there just wasn't a lot of representation.
I mean there still isn't, but there just wasn't a
lot of representation and media. And she she thought that
the best way to financial security, especially for a woman,
law medicine, law medicine. She became a teacher, and she
was like, you gotta you need to become a lawyer.

(48:23):
She's like, you like to talk a lot, you like
to argue a lot. You got allays, that's what you
gotta do. And so I took the ls as. What
was fascinating was I loved law school. But I would
not have thought of it if not for my mother,
because I did argue all the time, and I felt terrible,
like when I saw the inequity, it bothered me. It

(48:45):
bothered me, But I wanted to tell those stories as
opposed to fighting for it in the courtroom. And I
think it was certainly my mother because she lived a
dream deferred because that's what she wanted to do. Right
Is that just a myth our parents sold us? Because
now there are I have I have to say that

(49:09):
outside of the entertainment profession, a lot of my friends
are those medical students and those law students either I
played a spring fling twenty years ago, like the roots
did something, and then I got to know them professionally whatever,

(49:30):
and none of them seemed to be living. Let's talk
about is that a lie that America has taught us?
Because what's weird is when I last went to Cuba,
I'm sorry, we're not last Cuba. Uh my connect there

(49:57):
told me that parents grew their kids to be in
the hospitality. Because when you're a driver, when you're a
taxi driver, especially the way that the economy is there,
you can you can you're rich like me as a
Cuba and rent a driver for a week and that's

(50:18):
damn near like a year's worth of pay for it.
Where doctors, none of the doctors, because they get paid
the same thing as socialized medicine. Right, Yeah, Like is
do lawyers kicking the dough as we've been holding fed
this point? You can make a significant amount of money
as a lawyer. Um. I know when I first got

(50:40):
to a law school, I went to a law firm,
and I mean I was making a ton of money.
I hated working there. I didn't like it. I was practiced,
I was practicing litigation, medical malpractice insurance defense, um. And
so it wasn't necessarily boring, but you're basic. We sold
to the highest bidder, right, so you've got these corporations

(51:04):
that can pay you to defend their their maldis, their
their misdeeds. And I just felt like I didn't go
to law school and do as well as I did
to defend this. I just I didn't feel good. It
didn't It didn't feel right. But you can't you can't
do quite well. Um. And I think we we have been.

(51:26):
And you know, medical doctors they don't do as well
as they used to do because of insurance companies. But
it's it was it's sort of a solid living, right,
It's like a safe it's it's it's a safe job.
It's a safe job. And I mean, my husband is
a surgeon. He loves it. But both of his parents

(51:48):
and doctors as well sisters a doctor. You know, it's
sort of the family business in a sense. But his
his parents are immigrants, and that was the dream, you know,
you go, you become a doctor, You're gonna and go
to America. You're gonna do really well. And they did.
But I think I don't think that as people of
color we had. We had them my parents at least

(52:10):
felt as people of color. We didn't have the ability
to dream like that, Like, you're you're gonna try to
do what after we've struggled and skimped and you know,
saved to put you through school, that's what you're gonna do?
You want to be on TV? It just it made
no sense to them that that that's like a recipe

(52:32):
for failure. You could fail doing that, but if you
go to law school and and and do well, you
can get a job. It's like punching a ticket. It's
it seemed that's the safe way to do it. Sounds
like somebody out now but in in a remix though now, Sonny,
it's funny. I was listening. I was talking to a
girlfriend whose whose son is in college, and she was

(52:54):
kind of a conversation with him about how we were
Traditionally we are told to go to college and out.
These kids these days are like, no, wait a minute,
I don't necessarily have to go to college because I can't.
I learned how to code to do this. I can
do this. So do you feel like it's at the
same thing. Yeah, we're all being It's like now it's
another era of reprogramming, right, it definitely is another error.

(53:16):
I mean, you know, I'm raising these generations z kids, um,
seventeen and fourteen mina night. Yeah right, they're you know,
they are different because they have so much information at
their fingertips. Um They're not looking through encyclopedias. And I

(53:37):
feel it's double edged sword because my son, who's very bright,
will like say something and I'm like, where did you
get that? And he thinks like he he thinks he can.
He knows more about, you know, an orthopedic injury than
his father because he googles something, you know what I mean,
Like he knows a little better than I do because
he googles something. So they have they have this cavalier

(53:59):
attitude I think sometimes for its information. But I do
think that they realized that the world is pretty broad
and you know that they can there are a lot
of opportunities for them. He even mentioned at one point,
you know, not everybody needs to go to college. But
I will tell you my reaction was, you need to

(54:19):
go to college because I still think that if you can,
and not everyone can because it's too it's overpriced, and um,
it's not accessible to everyone. And I don't think everyone
was meant to go to school, you know, to go
to college. You don't necessarily need it, but I think
if you can, it's education can still be um an equalizer.

(54:40):
I do believe that it can still be an equalizer.
At least it was for me. And it can provide
tremendous opportunity. And a lot of it is socialization the
people that you meet there. Yeah, it really is a network.
But now even that's being redefined that now that everyone
is doing we're all doing it from home him now,
So yes, you know, what is college in one? You

(55:04):
know what I mean, it's it's a different thing. It's
a different thing. Well, i'll tell you. My son decided
to take a gap here instead of starting college because
he was, like my husband was dancing up, jumping up
and down, because he didn't want to pay the money anyway.
But it's like for virtual and for us, you know,
I thought, well, why should he go to a college
and sit in the dorm room and you know not

(55:29):
and be alone in the dorm room and then all
the classes were going to be virtual and he was
gonna eat in his dorm room. There was really not
the real college experience. So he decided to take a
gap here because of everybody's gap here, this is all
of us. Did you see that episode of black Is
that's like a whole thing for black people. Now we're
doing that. Yeah, yeah, it's the gap here. Yeah. When

(55:52):
he first mentioned it to us, we were like, you
are nominally Obama, You're not going to do Yeah. I
was a little I was a little uncomfortable with it,
but it made sense after a while. It's like high
school extended. But also I think I think, I think
gen Z is also the first generation that you know,
my parents were definitely the product of you know, safety

(56:17):
and security and getting good job and uh back on
that sort of. I think that gen z on will
go with their first instincts, their first passions, and yes,
roll with it, because yeah, you and I basically like
the same thing. Like my dad had plans for me

(56:39):
to do something way different and you know, I had
to hide for a long time that I was in
the rap group and all this other stuff. Zy about it.
They about it. They've been gen Z. They've been watching
police snuff videos since they was twelve, so you know
what I mean. Like, so they know me, So wait,

(57:02):
so let me ask you all the question on the
sense of that, because since they are reprogramming, reprogramming the
whole way we're supposed to think now, even on the
subject of like race and sex. And I was gonna
ask Sonny how you feel about that, because it's interested.
I was just I was watching, Um, I don't know
if you'll watched this show, I may destroy you or
whatever it said. I'm waiting for the finish. I was
gonna just take them all. They okay, well, there's just

(57:24):
an episode. It's just interesting the way that they're redefining uh, sex,
sexual assault things at these nature and they were talking.
It was an episode where the girl was having sex
with someone willingly and he took the condom off right,
and know she was like, you assaulted me right now.
Rewind ten fift years ago, we would just be like
that motherfucker's an asshole, fuck you, right. But now these

(57:47):
kids are like, no, that's assault, and it's just everything
is different, like this language from sex, race, everything is
just do you find yourself since you're on TV every
day playing this catchup game of trying to absolutely absolutely
to think you think, you know, I try to remain enlightened.

(58:08):
You know, I'm trying. I'm trying to plug in all
the time and get the information and make sure that
um that I'm growing along with with every movement. UM.
I will say, you know, I think it's really difficult
to parents during these times because you know, it's it's
your it's your worst nightmare. The boy. Yeah, you know,

(58:32):
some of you know your your your child's accused of
assaults or your child is assaulted or um, not understanding
you know, the new societal norms. UM. I spend a
lot of time talking about consent, talking about what assault is,
talking about respect, talking about you know, they go to

(58:54):
very progressive school though, so UM the school covers a
lot of those issues, which is which is good. But
I spent a lot of time trying to be informed
and trying to and making sure that they are informed
because I think people are very awake to their rights,
which is a good thing, UM, and to to be

(59:18):
ever changing. You know, we got into an argument like
this on the show, but like what is PC I'm like,
you know, in my view, you know, people used to
be able to say whatever they wanted uh to other people,
and now people are like, no, don't say that to me,
and I think respect is at the core of so
many things, and I've been making sure that my kids

(59:42):
really fundamentally understand other people's rights and respect that because
that's where I think we were We're just missing. We're
we're losing a lot in terms of our respect for
each other. And we know it comes from the top.
We know what we're seeing lately, but that's a fundamental problem.

(01:00:03):
If I heard correctly, you said that your kids are
seventeen and fourteen, Yeah, it might be the norm right now,
but if you can go back to like two thousand
and sixteen, November of two thousand six mm hm, how
did you explain to them suddenly what was happening? Like

(01:00:23):
I can't even imagine viewing the world, especially coming from
where they came, where they were formative age, coming up
in the Obama years. No way am I ever saying
that that was a rosy time either. But it seemed
like a more manageable time, and it seemed like we

(01:00:43):
were headed in the right direction. Yeah, And I mean,
it's what was wonderful. Wasn't it that that that I
felt it was wonderful that my children had for their
first for their cognitive years. They sold black President. I
thought it was wonderful. You know, how do you explain
in life to them now that the rug is seemingly

(01:01:04):
been pulled from underneath them or even not even two
like the idea of the riots, and how do you
how do you explain that to them? Well, my children, UM,
probably because of their mommy UM are are very our
social um activists UM and their advocates. You know, my

(01:01:27):
son was involved in a sitting at his school a
couple of years ago. UM, they're very well read. In fact,
it was part of his It got so much press
that it had to become part of his college essay.
And when he was interviewed, almost every college interview brought
brought it up and brought up this this question, you know,
like what what made you want to become an activist?
And and his his answer really was that he felt

(01:01:50):
that there was a backlash to the fact that there
was a black president. And my kids were very very
noticeably shaken by the back what they perceived as a backlash.
And and my my daughter, who she's only fourteen, UM,
but she said she feels that this sort of you know,

(01:02:13):
there's like a pendulum that swings, and that there were
people in our country that felt that Obama being president
for eight years took the pendulum too far and they
wanted to bring it all the way back. And that
was a really interesting perspective that I hadn't even thought
of that way, that that's why we're seeing these extremes,

(01:02:34):
because they thought that that was that extreme. Um So
so I will say, I don't even know that I
had to reconcile it for them. I think because they
have so much information and they're so interested in the information,
at least my children, they formulated their own opinions early,
very early. I remember in in November two thousand and sixteen,

(01:02:58):
I was bereft is very upset, and you know, they
were like, how could this happen? He's such a joke,
he said horrible things. Who would vote for him? There
were things like that. You know, they were like, but
he didn't, he didn't really win that. They were trying
to really make sense of the process. Um. Even then,

(01:03:20):
even in two thousand and sixteen, um M, well, it
should be noted that you at least had your parents
cake and you ate it too. Um. By stepping into
the television journalism world, starting with Court TV and oh yeah,

(01:03:47):
like okay, so what you should take this too higher
level and kind of get to your dreams, like what
was the what was that moment where you were where
I obviously you were like, you know, well, I am
going to pursue the journalism and it was. And I

(01:04:08):
write in the book that, UM, I always know when
I'm in the right place, when it feels like home,
when it feels right, when I'm comfortable, it feels good. Um,
the law firms didn't feel good. The Justice Department felt good.
It felt like I was doing the good work, making
good trouble. But then after I had my first child,
I was really blowing in the wind, and I went

(01:04:29):
back and went to a not a law firm making
a lot of money, which was stupid to go back
to a place I knew I wouldn't feel like home,
and I was searching. But in the back of my mind,
I have to tell you, I knew that I needed
to follow my passion. And UM. I went to a
meeting of lawyers and had the good fortune of meeting

(01:04:53):
a television producer there from Court TV, who said, You've
got to um, you know, you should be on television
and I took that opportunity and I seized it and
I really never let it go. I just I just
never let it go, and I just kept on doing it.
And I kind of got discovered that way, which is unusual, right.
You know, you meet you meet a television producer, and
you're on TV the next week, and then it never

(01:05:13):
it never goes away. Um. And I feel like that's
because it was my true calling and it was something
that I was supposed to do. But I also had
the benefit of being married to an orthopedic surgeon who
could pay the bills and who could hold it down
for me, and who was willing to do that because
he basically had a talk and I was like, I

(01:05:34):
think I'm leaving this law firm and this has been
a dream of mine and I want to do it.
And he basically said, all right, let's talk tonight. Got home,
pulled up budgets and pulled up savings accounts and he
was like okay. And he had just started his own
practice and he was like, well, you know, and we
had just bought a house and we just had a baby,
two babies at that point, and he said I could

(01:05:54):
hold it down for about three years. You think you could,
You think you could make it in three years? Now,
three years? And I said, yeah, I think I can.
He said, they're doing That's significant, right, that's significant. Now,
I don't know that a lot of people with you know,

(01:06:16):
he may have been he may have been short, but
he wasn't short on cash. And the moral to this
story to the baby journalists out there too, Sonny, not
to say that you were also like still doing the work,
like you were going to n A b J. You
was doing some of the stuff that to say, all
these other babies journalists are doing too. Yes, you gotta

(01:06:37):
do it, you gotta do it. And I continue to
do it. I continue to go to n I go
to n H n h J, I do. I continue
to go to I go to local meetings. I go.
You got you have to you have to do it.
You have to do the work, you know. I I
text people, what do you think about this? What do
you think about that? You know? I mean now I

(01:06:57):
have it just a wonderful circle of of you know,
other sister girl journalists who you know, we're we're actually
on this text chain and we go back and put
political um journalists as well. We go back and forth.
You know, can you review this for me? What do
you think about this position? What do you think about that?
And it's uh, you know, Joy Reid has been Uh.

(01:07:19):
I was just about to ask you how that. I
was about to say, how how was that Zoe party?
First week? The records? I just so good, Oh my god.
And then and then Sunny too. It had a good time.
The first show that she did with all the Black
Mayor's I was like, Oh, they couldn't wait to do
her episode. They was like watching together. It was so amazing.

(01:07:40):
You know, we popped champagne with Joy after Uh. You know,
And she's been She's been great. She's not only a
friend but an inspiration. You know, she gave such amazing things,
amazing work. But I have that circle that I can
still depend on and count on. Um. And I say,
young journalists, you've got to keep that network tight and

(01:08:01):
and and help each other. Um. It's it's important. Yeah,
since you're probably the only person that I know of
that I'm in conversation with that is any proximity towards
the Fox building? Yeah, I have to ask, all right,

(01:08:25):
in general, is it is there general modus operandi that
they believe what they're saying, or they know better what
will still say toxic talking points for the sake of
their bottom line, which is specifically you know, I know

(01:08:48):
that you were a pundit. I don't even want to
paint that you were oftentimes you were debating against Yeah
what you know? First of all, how do they find
do they find legitimate people that have like, how do backgrounds? Yeah? Yeah,
they found they found me on court tv UM. They
saw me on courtv UM. Yes, there are some legitimate people.

(01:09:11):
I mean, I mean Chris Wallace is there. I actually
think he's one of the finest journalists out there today.
I thought Chef Smith was great as well, and I
worked with him. I thought he was he was excellent.
I think it's a mixed bag over there. I think
there are some people who are saying these irresponsible things, UM,
that aren't as talented as they should be, and they're

(01:09:34):
doing it for ratings and um for their bottom line. UM.
I also think there are some that really believe that,
that are indoctrinated and truly truly believe it. My experience
there was that you'd walk in the building and there
was a collective there were collective points that they wanted

(01:09:55):
to make that day collective points like on white boards.
These are the three points and themes that everyone is
going to um cover in their shows in various ways.
Pundits are going to talk to it, Guests are going
to speak to it, the anchors are going to pontificate
about it. And they were marching orders. That's when Ailes

(01:10:19):
was there. May be different now, but those were the
marching orders, and everybody marched to those orders. It was
it was like sort of a monolithic view and that
was Roger Ailes's view. And then they would have a
couple of people like me, maybe one Williams to kind
of mix it up a little bit. Yeah, but by

(01:10:42):
and large, UM, I think it's a mixed bag, and
that some people just do it for ratings, but they
all and and if you're doing it, in my opinion,
for just ratings, you've sold your soul. You know, you're
just you're just inauthentic. Um, You're you're even worse than
the people that really believe it, right um. And and

(01:11:02):
then there are people that I believe, really believe it.
I do so knowing the fight and the struggle that
we have UH in the next four months and what's
working against the fight and whatnot. Um, you know, how

(01:11:22):
do you see where journalism, be it news sources, be
it the blackosphere, be it podcast be it uh talk shows,
discussion shows, which there are plenty of now on television. UM,
how do you how do you feel as though how
effective that they will be? Oh? Well, very effective. We

(01:11:47):
know that. Um, we know Fox has been extraordinarily effective,
and we know, um, there are other programs that are
extraordinarily effective. I will say this. I think that, um,
there's a difference between journalists and punditry, right, journalism and commentators,
journalists and commentators, and um, it's the line is so
blurry for people intentionally so that UM, the media and

(01:12:13):
network news and cable news, we all have to be
very careful, um, I think and letting people know that
this is a piece of commentary, This is an opinion piece,
This is an op ed as opposed to these are
the facts, Yes, these are the facts. Networks. Yeah, I'm

(01:12:39):
finding you know, by and large. And I was talking
to a couple of my journalist friends, t J. Holmes,
I don't know if you know him, Roberts and Pierre Thomas. Um,
you know these are journalists and they're really concerned about
that too. Lindsay Javis, who who moderated one of the debates,
I think she was really our best moderator um that

(01:13:01):
we've seen in the debates. Check that fly white suit.
But um, you know, journalists need to continue doing that job.
Just the facts, ma'am. And I also think there is
an important space, um for shows like my show. I mean,
when I'm not reporting on something, I am giving my opinion.
The view is an opinion show, and we make it

(01:13:23):
clear that these are our opinions, these are our views.
There's a really important place for that to have that
lively discussion so that you can hear those views but
then make your mind up yourself. I tried to be
very fact based in my arguments, not emotion right, because
facts trump emotion no pun intended. Every single time, every

(01:13:45):
single time you come at me with your emotional argument,
I'm going to tell you, but these are the facts.
Boom boom boom book. And the best example I'm sorry,
I I mean, I'm just gonna tell you that. This
example of that was that conversation between Tips. I want
to say Tiffany Cross is Tips Cross and Whoopi Goldberg
about why we need and I know you've been very

(01:14:06):
vocal on their needs to have black female VP and
the woman of color black. Yeah, yes, because of course
Miss duck Water will make a great Secretary of Defense
and she would excellent and she would. But we need
a black agenda. We need a reconciliation for the black community.

(01:14:26):
You know one thing that's really fascinating to me about this,
this discussion of black VP, and I have been very vocal.
I was we were the first group UM to write
an op ed in the Washington Post about the need
for UM. We started that conversation. It was I wrote
it with Tiffany. I wrote it with Angela Ry, Amanda Seals,

(01:14:48):
Brittany Packet Cunningham, who's brilliant. UM. Latasha Brown was one
of the co founders of Black Lives Matter, and we
got together. We're on a thread talking, gad we got
to make this happen UM, and we all agreed UM.
And I've reached out to you know, Donna, Brazil, minyet more,
all these people, and we you know, we have a

(01:15:11):
we have a Black women think tank, we really do.
And it was we need He's promised his black Supreme
Court justice. That's great, but you're not getting the black
Supreme Court justice unless you have the Senate. Okay. So
so that's that's an elusively promise. What we need is

(01:15:32):
representation at the table, at the table in the White House.
And because black women are the backbone of the Democratic Party,
brought Joe Biden to the barbecue, resurrected his campaign in
South Carolina. So I've spoken to her as well. We

(01:15:56):
deserve that seat at the table. And for people to
say somehow that it's not about race and it's about
the most qualified. We've been hearing that argument all the time.
And the other thing is every single voting block with
power has a lobby and makes demands before they will
provide their vote. Right, So you've got the gun lobby,

(01:16:20):
you've got the evangelicals, all those groups will say we
will support you, not maybe not gun lobby now, but
we will support you if you give me this. Why
is it when black women say we will support you,
We will organize, we will bring our husbands and our children,

(01:16:42):
and our sisters and our parents to vote during a
global pandemic risking our lives. But you must give us
this representative in the White House, we are somehow asking
for too much. We're not doing anything else that any
other voting block with power does. So I just I

(01:17:03):
don't understand why there's been such pushback with that demand,
because it's not a request, it's not a request, it's
a demand, um that any other strong voting block makes.
And now is the time because once he's in the
White House, I mean the black agenda, what is really

(01:17:28):
the black agenda? And if you've read Joe Biden's agenda,
it's okay, it's a little squishy, it's not as specific
as it should be. And you know he has he's
an imperfect candidate and he has a lot to atone
for when it comes to the treatment of Anita Hill
and it comes to the crime bill and coration, because

(01:17:50):
it has a lot to atone for. And I think
because you know, no other candidate in the past fifty
years Democratic Candida is one without the black vote. He
needs to win over whelmingly because if not, the current
occupant in the White House is going to have to
be you know, it's not gonna want to get out.
Black people got to risk their lives to vote now,
got to stand in line because of COVID because of

(01:18:12):
all the attack on mail and voting and where I
don't think people are going to be as energized with
Tammy dug Ward with you know, Kamala in the Senate. Concerned,
I think, what do you think about vice president either
in the Senate or as attorney general or you know?

(01:18:33):
You know, I think that um Kamala, We've seen her.
She is certainly the prosecutor in chief. UM. I know her.
I think, you know, California is a lock for democratic senator.
I'm not concerned about Kamala being in the Senate. I
think she can be much more effective um as vice
president and I'd like to see her debate Vice President Pence. UM.

(01:18:55):
I think she's a really strong candidate in terms of
being ready to occupie occupy the oval, because not everyone
you know is Joe Biden is not immortal, and I'm
not an agist, but he is going to be seventy
eight and what he needs to think about is not
the next four years. He needs to think about the

(01:19:16):
next eight and the next twelve, because in three and
a half years, the Trump administration has undone eight years
of what the Obama administration did or was allowed to do. So,
you know, you need someone that's able to kind of
step in and I just don't know that, you know,
and stepping and run because she has run the A G.
S office. Um, you know she she she has the

(01:19:39):
experience to run out of all the candidates that I've seen. Um,
I think she has she has the experience to run
a country. That That's just my take. What are your
thoughts on Val Demons? I thought she was I was
like that, I've interviewed Val. I think she's great. Um.
I think if you look at at else um law

(01:20:00):
enforcement record, it's a little problematic, it's a little problems
It can be promited. Yeah, more than who's yes, yes, Yeah.
I mean if you if you look at Kamula's I've
read Kmula's book, and the thing is, you know, you

(01:20:23):
get the black prosecutors get a certain wrap. Yeah, black
prosecutors get a certain rap, right because unfortunately, there is
the problem of mass incarceration. We know that black men
are twice as likely as white men to get arrested.
We know about broken window policing, and so that's a

(01:20:43):
systemic problem. And when your prosecutor, you have to enforce
the law. Laws are changed through legislation. Prosecutors don't get
to change the law. What you do get to do
is you get to make you have prosecutorial discussion. So
you know, when I was a prose cuter, there were
if I saw some uh, someone, the cop comes to

(01:21:04):
me and he's got a confession, but the mug shot
shows that the guy has two black eyes. I'm not
taking that case to trial. Even if I think, huh,
you know, he probably did it. If I only have
that confession and he's been beaten up to get it,
I have the discretion to say, this is not how

(01:21:25):
you get to police. If you look at what Kamala did,
she um really was instrumental in changing the way things
were done in California, to her credit, working within that system,
because sometimes you can't just blow up systems, you have
to work within it. So I often say, you know,
the black prosecutor. Prosecutors the person with the most power

(01:21:46):
in the room. People think it's the judge. He the judge.
People think, oh, I gotta get a good defense attorney.
You need a prosecutor on that side of the table
in that courtroom to make the right charging decisions, to
the right recommend you know, sentencing recommendation, that's who you need.
I will tell you that in my time as a prosecutor,

(01:22:07):
I didn't charge people who um you know, I put
people in drug diversion programs. I looked at the whole person.
Because I'm from those neighborhoods. I know the decisions that
people make, um are not just because they're inherently bad. Um.
I know you know some of them are born in poverty.
I I know what goes into all of this. So UM,

(01:22:31):
I think that, However, when you look at val Demming's record, UM,
there were um a lot of problems in her police department,
but she had the ability to change that and a
lot of those changes didn't necessarily happen. UM. So I
think she's a great candidate. UM, but she's you know,

(01:22:55):
she's going to come up if he chooses her, that
it's going to be a little problematic when it comes
to her history, UM with law enforcement, considering the reckoning
that's going on now in our country. For that's sunny,
you did the same thing for me. For with Amylo.
You just like but but that's interesting. Do you know
that before I interviewed her, people say it was a

(01:23:19):
cross examination. I single handedly undid her campaign, and her
campaign was very set after her appearance on our show.
I mean, she was never questioned about her prosecutorial background
in the way that Kamala was. She was never questioned
about it until she came on the show. And do
you know how I found out about it. They buried
her team had buried that case. Um My on Burrell's case.

(01:23:43):
Black activists d m me dm me on social media
and said, we hear that Amy's going on the show.
Can I send you some documents about the case? I said, sure,
And sometimes I don't even look at Twitter. I don't
even look at everything, you know, I just happened to
be looking at it, and I read my husband will

(01:24:05):
tell you. I mean, I was up all night. I
couldn't I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh my god.
And you know, I think her campaign felt that I
ambushed them. And I heard there's a CNN document or
HBO Max documentary now and CNN told some of the
reporters that they can't believe they got scooped by a
talk show host, which was kind of infuriating because I

(01:24:27):
am a legal journalist, federal prosecutor, so I was like,
what are they talking about? Yeah, come on now, and
you worked on and I worked there, and you know
it is the number one talk show in the country. UM. Yeah,
that part. But UM, I was surprised that I was

(01:24:50):
the first journalist to bring it up, But everybody was
bringing up commla's record. So black women do get examined
in a in a way that's very different than white women,
especially during this time when vetting and UM. I think
Valerie Jarrett just came out with an initiative for the

(01:25:13):
media called something like we have we have her back,
and they're saying, if he picks a woman, especially a
woman of color, media, you are to UM profile and
report accordingly. Yeah, you are to do UM your jobs

(01:25:34):
professionally and ethically. And I think it was really important
for her to say that because I do not think
that Kamala I don't think that UM representative BASS. I
don't think that Stacy Abrams UM got got about demmings
got appropriate treatment in the media. I really don't believe

(01:25:57):
they did. Can I can I ask UM Oftentimes when
I do watch news programs, sometimes I just wish that
and I know that we're supposed to you know when
they go low, we go high and quote, but I'm

(01:26:24):
just saying that, you know, can't we and we as
in whoever we we as in? Why are we playing
as dirty or as devious? And I don't mean that's
effective even yeah, as effective and as effective as it's

(01:26:47):
almost like we already know that, we already know what's
in line to your another four years in November. And
it's kind like watching those old you know, Dolly do
right snuff with you know, our futures on this uh

(01:27:09):
conveyor belt headed towards a mule saw thing. And it's
it's why can't we play as dirty? Why can't we?
You know that's too loaded of No, it's not for me.
You know. Joe Behard and I talked about this all

(01:27:30):
the time. She's like, when they go low, we need
to go low. She's putilistic, right, Um, I tend to disagree.
I I just think it's it's I do I think
that with facts on your side, with the law on
your side, um, you don't have to play dirty. But

(01:27:52):
it's like truth, yea like on like truth now is
everyone you know the dangerous thing, like everyone picks their
own facts now, Like it's not even is the winner. Yeah,
and even kind of to your point earlier sunny about um,

(01:28:14):
you know you were talking about, you know, the difference
between journalism and entertainment. I think that's kind of a big,
you know, kind of problem because you know, I mean,
I was a journalis as a major, like in college,
and you know, one of the things I see now
and a lot of other like writers are talked about
it of just kind of you have the conflation of
journalism versus entertainment, where one is often masquerading as the other,

(01:28:36):
you know what I mean, Like we don't have a
twenty four hour news cycle because of journalism. That ship
is entertainment, you know what I mean, it's not you
know what I mean. So I think that is where
the kind of going a lower thing comes in because
it's like you kind of have to use we're not
playing the same rules don't apply anymore like as they
as they used to it. The aim has changed, that

(01:29:02):
is true, But I just don't I think that if
everyone is cheating, then you truly have the devolution of society,
Like there has to be the standards, um and and
and that's the that's the problem, you know, I don't
think we can. I certainly think we can combat. Like,

(01:29:23):
if you're gonna go low, I can be pugilistic and
hit you back. I don't know that I need to
go lower, you know, I just I I believe that, Yeah,
I can hit back. UM, but I agree, I don't
agree that you need to um resort to trickery. I

(01:29:46):
don't think you need to then the rules. Um. I
don't like that. I just um is not scaring you
right now. For Kanye, I mean, from God, he has,
but he hasn't. Can't do that with somebody with mental illness,

(01:30:08):
Like that's okay, good nothing, Come on, black people, be
true true suffering that yeah, really really suffering. He's really suffering.

(01:30:29):
And I think what's important, what's really unfortunate is that
you know, he's not getting the help he needs, right
and he can't. He's not getting it. I mean it's
hard to help a grown person with a lot of
money and power to like that's the whole thing. Yeah, Like,
what you're gonna gonna do institutionalize stuff has to hurt
somebody like Sonny, you can, you can clear this up,

(01:30:51):
but he literally has to physically hurt himself or somebody
for him to be forcibly hospitalized. Correct, Yes, he has
to be a dangerou to himself for others in California.
Rob robbed, I don't know suffering he is. He is
just I mean it is. And think about his old music, right,

(01:31:13):
I mean, I mean, I you know I could listen
to it. I thought I thought it was like masterful.
Some of it was masterful. And now you look at
him and you're like, he is really suffering. My son
was upstairs, he was working out, and he was listening
to I can't remember. The song was like they're building
tunnels up underwall me and I knowed then out of

(01:31:37):
here with that ship like way sick. He's sick. I
think he. I think he is who exactly who he
has always been. But I think so, I think he'll
like that. I'm not saying that. I'm not negating any
of that. I'm not I'm not I'm not negating any
of that. I'm just saying just in my very limited

(01:31:58):
view of him. And as I've always said this, even
before he started all this stupid Trump ship. You know
when people always ask me, because you know, we work
with each other very early, you know, on in his
career before you know, he was Kanye Kanye. And the
thing that I've been always telling people for years, you know,
when people talk about the old Kanye versus the new Kanye,
the thing I would always say it is like, listen, man,
Kanye is the same dude he has always been. It's

(01:32:20):
just now he has much more power, influence, and a
bigger platform to be who he is. He's just become
more of who we already was. So by my estimation,
there is no old Kanye, new Kanye. It's the same dude,
just with much more resources. You know, at his disposal,

(01:32:43):
I don't know, Well, yeah, facts, Yeah, he's got to
be sick. I mean if you saw that that I
don't know what campaign speech or whatever was, I mean
someone in such Yeah, he was in such pain. I

(01:33:05):
was like, oh my gosh, it just in the way
it's resulting in this this racial thing. Because even in
that speech, the way he was treating that black girl
versus that it was, I just cannot believe that he's well,
let's not. I don't, Yeah, I believe he's I don't
think it. Just don't believe. I don't get into it.
Is it? Well sick you don't have to believe that
he's well, just believe that he's Kanye. I believe that

(01:33:29):
that's Yeah, that's what the funk it is. And like,
we ain't got time for this silly ship now, bro, Like,
come on, man, we are we are less than a
hundred days from the election, and and and we we
I think as a community desperately need Joe Biden, even
though he may be an imperfect candidate, we need him
to win. And someone even you know, working against that,

(01:33:52):
even sick is problematic. Well, look at the way we
came together on that. That was beautiful. Yeah, we talk
against Yeah, I ain't about to get here and argue
with my people. No, that's wet. That's how funny be
on the view. I ain't gonna argue with We'll be
on TV, I know. Take it to the group chat.

(01:34:15):
I will say that it's it's before we let you go.
It's really endearing to watch you guys via your social
media platforms during game night. I'm very envious these monopoly
games like for real, Like it's my dream. I live

(01:34:36):
with a bunch of people who believe in going to
bed at like nine pm. They go they go to
bed early they wake up at five in the morning
and meditating all that stuff, and you know, like, I
just want one. I want one good game night where
I can flip over the monopoly table if I'm losing. Like,
is that what the family is? Yeah? Whatever? I mean,

(01:35:01):
we tried game nights, but you know everyone's I'm talking Tony,
go no more team at your house. You know, we
we get we get a little crazy. We're competitive by nature.
Were competitive everybody. My father I posted yesterday we had
a game night with my father. He started trash talking
about ten minutes is a game? I think you haven't

(01:35:22):
played Clue in a minute? Can you trash jockey? He's like, yeah, yeah,
keep on playing, keep on playing. It's just it's just
kind of a family dynamic that we have. Oh we
played Clue. Just just ignorant. But it's been such a
wonderful thing for us because you know, Manny usually leaves
very early in the morning, Um to see patients. I

(01:35:43):
usually leave early. The kids are you know, their athletes,
so they're they're constantly running. This has been the first
time in years. The one silver lining for us is that, um,
we're home together, and we've been home together for months
and I'm sorry, thank you. He's cute and he's cute.

(01:36:08):
I know it's so ridiculous, those two, but I I
love that we you know, we've all been able to
spend that time together. And like the kids are serious
about family game night. They're like, um, Thursday night, he's
gonna get like they decide when we're gonna play, and
they're just like, what, we're gonna play the top three
games because we needed some new such suggestions for this point. Monopoly,

(01:36:33):
and I would say probably it's a toss up between
Pictionary and you know that, don't believe. Only thing is

(01:36:56):
you gotta stack. The only thing is you stack with
the same suite. So if it's a draw too, I
can stack a draw too. But you can't put a
draw four on top of a draw to like I
go get it with it. Ye draws an't do that.

(01:37:20):
Un that used to read with their fingers under the
word game night. That's good for the coffee table book.

(01:37:40):
What is the one thing that you've adjusted to since
March or during the quarantine that you haven't before that
you're that's now part of your regular repertoire. I've started,
I've always cooked it, but I coockle up more, and

(01:38:03):
I will say I started walking and running again. You know,
remember I said I used was training for a marathon
when I when I met my husband and church. It's
been a long time since I have done it consistently,
and I find that, you know, the one thing that
kind of does give me a little self care is

(01:38:24):
to try to exercise a little bit, a little. I
don't like to sweat that much, honestly, but running or
walking a couple of miles a day, it's, uh, it
feels that feels good, and it's something that I just
almost didn't make the time for before. I didn't just
I don't know, I didn't I stopped doing that. So

(01:38:44):
I would say that that's different for me. A little
bit of what's your what's your fantastic it's probably award
winning if I entered it into something, well let's talk
about it. Yeah what shoulder? Yeah you can and I

(01:39:12):
don't eat, but I certainly can make that everybody. That's
my usually Thanksgiving and Christmas, I throw that, you know
into the mix, but I would make it especially for you. Okay,
we'll be over. Ask you a quick technical question. Way
y'all are taping the view, So are you you're still

(01:39:32):
at home? They just gave y'all one background. Looked it up,
didn't they, Because it wasn't always like that, like y'all good,
we're still at home. What they did was when they
realized that we would we would be doing this all
season and probably likely into next season as well, they
brought equipment into our homes. I mean, people had has
mat suits on. It was really impressive. And ABC basically

(01:39:55):
set trucks with equipment and people and has Matt suits
to everyone's home and um, your driveway. No, they put
them in like they built these kind of mini studios
and each host home and so we have a big
screen behind us. It's not a green screen. It's actually

(01:40:15):
a huge monitor that pope that we have a picture
um of where we generally the background of where we
generally sit on the shade. That's what I was trying
to I was like, yeah, and then we have our
our lighting, and I mean they basically made sure that

(01:40:35):
we could continue doing the show remotely. And you know,
there's been a couple of little glitches because it's hard
because you don't want to speak over each other, and
so it's it's a little bit difficult, um, but we
we don't have monitors, we have prompter. Now we have
feedback where we can see each other. The first month
we didn't have that and then it just they came

(01:40:56):
in fixed it and you know, we interestingly enough, we
used to be you know, sort of like number one,
but they would break out syndicated and non syndicated, and
now we're number one across the board, UM and all
of State TV and Imagination this week. I know everyone's like,
I can't believe you on vacation, but I think it's

(01:41:19):
because we're we are at our best when we are
just talking about the issues, even the uncomfortable ones. That's
where we're at our best. So that's when people are
at their best when they when they talk Sunny. I
have to thank you because and I'm gonna thank you
from all the people that I know that watch every day,
from my dad to my best friend Khadijja, because although

(01:41:42):
I know it's a heavy weight, you carry it so
classy and so beautifully. And I just really saying that
as I really appreciate you. I told you this at
a mirror to Oscar party ones and I wanted to
say something to you and I walked up to you
and I was like, I want you to know I
you and I appreciate you because we do. Thank you.
Thank you. One quick thing I will tell you is

(01:42:04):
that I was diagnosed with diverticulitis stress induced diverticulitis um,
which is like an information of the intestines and stuff.
And uh, yeah, I was. I was. I got really
sick last last season, and and last season was a
tumultuous season for us. I look like twenty pounds. I
couldn't eat everything I ate bother my stomach. So I

(01:42:25):
went to the g I doctor and he said he
usually sees that in what I have in seventy plus
year old women. Uh and then seventy plus And he said,
but it's stress induced. Are you under an extraordinary amount
of stress? And I was like, no, I'm not. I'm fine,
I'm only the number one talk shows. Yes, no stress. Yeah.

(01:42:50):
I realized that it is a heavy weight because I
attribute that to the fact that there are things sometimes
that I would like to say, um, and I'm sure
all of you understand this. There are things that I
would sometimes like to say that will result in my
losing that platform. And I think it's too important of
a platform to lose for our community. And so I

(01:43:14):
do not say those things. But when you internalize and internalize, UM,
you could end up with stress induced but diverticulitis. So
I say that as an example because I really think
it's important. If you're not on television talking to three
million people, UM, you really have to talk it out right.

(01:43:35):
You've gotta get all of that stuff out. And I
think now it's more important than ever UM to do that.
Not censoring. I'm not censoring myself, but I'm I'm trying
to keep it classy at all times. Well, Sunny, I
will cordially invite you to the quest Lot Supreme group chat,
where you can say all the problematics you want to
say all you can't say for the white people. It's

(01:43:58):
like therapy from the It's like therapy. It's like therapy
fruit Black group. Hey, group chat is the new social media.
So we're gonna need to do a trade. I'm gonna
need to get into that good light skin alloud group chat.
She in with all her flat that's it going light
skin and loud, get all the women she names. I

(01:44:20):
was like, yeah, you know, I forgot to say Jamal
Jamal Hills aloud. She don't know you're about the same
complain y'all got the paper bag, Yeah we can wet.
It was Geoyemal Alicia, Alicia Garza, my girl from CBS.

(01:44:42):
A'ssisting for a girl sometimes that oh what's her name?
She is so sharp with the short haircut. Oh my god. Yeah.
We we do, we do, we keep. And what's great
is sometimes when they see me on the show and
they see that, I'm really, you know, drinking my teeth
because I'm like, if I get in to this the
last week. This last week, it was like, yeah, job,

(01:45:05):
I'm gonna lose my job. I can't lose your job
right there? Can? I ask? Is it possible? Is there
a line to be cross on the view? Roseye O'Donnell
said directly on the show, not like things discovered. I

(01:45:27):
believe there are lines, and I always black people well anyways,
but there's a line for everybody. I don't have a question.
Since we're talking about this and in this time that
we're in right now where seemingly everybody has an opinion,

(01:45:51):
we're all encouraged to speak, speak up and speak out.
At this point, certainly. And but on the other side
of the coin, you say the smallest thing wrong, your
job is at risk, your life is at risk, everything.
So how do you navigate that, especially since it's your
job to speak your mind in front of so many

(01:46:12):
people every day. Yeah, well I I try to navigate
it very carefully, um, while being authentic. But see, I
don't really believe in what people are calling cancel culture.
I don't really believe that that is that. I think
it's accountability culture. You don't get canceled just for giving
your opinion. You don't get canceled for you know, um,

(01:46:35):
having an opinion that is different. You get held accountable though,
for saying things that are racist, for saying things that
are misogynistic you could get and and doubling down on
them and not apologizing. You can get held accountable for
those things. So I I kind of disagree with this.

(01:46:59):
There is oh, there's a cancel culture for giving your opinion. No,
I think people are for the first time in a
long time being held accountable for their actions. But I,
because of my platform, UM, I am very careful um
about what I say, making sure this is fact based

(01:47:20):
and how I say it, because I also think there's
something to be said about dealing with your colleagues gracefully
and respectfully so that you can go to battle with
those same people the next day without hurt feelings and
things like that, and without people feeling personally attacked, feeling

(01:47:41):
like they've been disrespected just because of their view. Right. So,
I I think it's more that it's that people are
now finally being held accountable for saying the quiet part
out loud and other people saying I don't like that.
You know that that's racist or that's sexist, or that's this,

(01:48:03):
and if the person, rather than say, you know what,
let's teach me, what do you mean by that? Why
do you take it that way, the person is like, no,
it's not and yeah, blah blah blah, that's different. I
think that's I think that's someone that can't learn. That's
just my take. I don't know, okay, uh, I don't
know what you disagree and fine you disagree? No no, no,

(01:48:25):
no no no, I don't I don't think I necessarily
disagree with you. I just think it's you know, when
we talk about like, you know what cancel culture is,
because I mean because right, I mean Essentially, what you're
saying is like, well, yeah, I mean, no one gets canceled.
They just you know, you might lose some money and
you go away for a little while and then you
just come back and rebrand, right, But you're being held
accountable on that particular thing that you did. You're being

(01:48:50):
held accountable. But I guess the part for me is that,
you know, a big part for me is like there's
never like when we're like now in the area that
we're in where we're talking to out just rebuilding everything,
like we're talking about, you know, defunding the police and
abolishing prison like all these programming, right, so there's always
I'm I'm like, I'm with it, like we can, let's

(01:49:12):
abodi police, let's get it on. But there's always there's
never a discussion about what redemption looks like. And so
my thing is that, you know what I mean, like,
so at what point, you know my problem with you
know what people call its council culture. If you cancel someone,
they no longer have an incentive to change if you

(01:49:32):
if cancel culture, or if holding someone accountable means were
like we're just joking about you losing your job if
you've lost your job. Then at that point it's like,
well fuck it, Like, yeah, I don't already lost my job,
lost my name, my Google you Google searching me, and
everybody talks this is what defines me now, so hell,
you know what I mean. So I think that's the
part that I think that I think gets missed, you

(01:49:55):
know what I mean? And particularly now, you know, I
think a big problem that, a point that I think
is missed is that the audience today versus someone you know,
twenty years ago whatever. We have the hive mind of
social media at our disposal to help us break down
very very complex concepts. So you know, if you were,

(01:50:17):
you know, twenty years ago, right, if you were a
person that was assaulted or you you know, had questions
about your sexuality or like how we were talking earlier
about consent or whatever. I mean, who could you really
talk to? I mean, you could maybe talk to your parents,
You can maybe talk to you know, a friend maybe
you know what I'm saying right now, Like now, if

(01:50:43):
you have questions, but whatever, you have world class counselors, psychologists, teachers,
uh you know, pep at your disposal. Who have you know,
who create and release content on their platforms daily to
help you parse all of this information. So I think
it's unfair to like judge people now too. I think

(01:51:06):
it's unfair to litigate the present or litigate the past
current understanding of the present, you know what I mean.
And so when I see a lot of these things,
uh that happened when people do you know, when people
just be saying some little dumb ship and they whatever,
you know, to your point about educating, I don't ever

(01:51:27):
see like education happen. It's always the first the first
thing I see is always yeah, it's like get this now,
they gotta go, they counsel, they're done. They did say that,
and there's never any room for education. Well, and that's
why I refer to those that double down because I
I've seen situations where someone's held accountable and say, ah,

(01:51:47):
that was wrong, and and then you have someone that says,
you know what, I've met with this person and that
person and I was wrong And I get it now.
See I believe in reject shin um. So I don't
I don't think that person loses their job. I don't.
I don't agree with that. But the person that doubles

(01:52:09):
down and it's like whatever, right, I mean, what do
you do with that? Not gonna well you do yea Griselda? Yeah,

(01:52:31):
I mean downtown. Yeah, I like that. I think he's
doubled down. And I was just like, wow, Triple we
we thank you for doing the show, um and and
thank you for fighting a good fight. And you know

(01:52:55):
we we feel your stress every episode. Thank you for
thank you for feeling with me and having me. Y'all
are great. This was wonderful and everybody get but I
am these truth and when the world open back up,
when the world opened back up, I'm coming towards a
nice slice of that mohole. I need that. Uh what's

(01:53:19):
the tut I need that? Come on, brings right. I
hate to over I hate to mention this in the slab,
but can you also find out why black women get fibrrois.
I'm sorry, it's in the book. Everybody read the books.
She had them. But I'm just saying, yes, there were
studies being done, but we're gonna talk about that. Thank you,

(01:53:39):
thank you. How about you in the struggle? Yeah, sugar Steve,
I'm paid bill and find take a little This is
question love, This is question love supreme, and we will
see you on the next Girlground. Thank you very much.

(01:54:01):
Oslave Supreme is a production of I heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
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