Teedra Moses

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to of Course Love Supreme. I'm
your host of Course Love Cornelius. Actually you realize the

(00:20):
voice drop a few eyes. It's really alright, got my
fan got jokes. I'm sorry. I'm just saying. When you
know the Weird All Young Big Show, I was like, hey, guys,
Weird Love, You're gonna be here, everyone, teachers here. I'm like,
you've reached the ladies and gentlemen. This is a Quest

(00:48):
Love Supreme. I'm your host Quest Love Wait interest hit me?
Should I even say that? We're you know, how is
Webby legit enough for us to be like for that
to be the preface to our title, like the Webby winning,
Webby winning? Yeah, image more nominated? Who who who beat us?

(01:11):
Was that? Jamille? Yeah? Okay, yeah? Loves anyway me? Or
if you try to say Webby winning enough times it
will be a hit on podcast. Yes, the Webby winning.
I don't know. I still feel some sort of way
that you know, we we've been Webby winning for the
longest thing. They haven't given us our first award, so

(01:33):
damn you wait? Is it? Yo? Guys? This is this
is this is notable m normally if it's like Lenny
Kravitz on the show or no. But I mean, you know, okay,

(01:53):
so thank you. You gotta show up. You know what
I'm saying, I've been around. Should look like I say,
how should command the wounds. I'm is matching her her
Lenny Kravit's energy right now. Anyway, Um yeah, so you well,
obviously you're fine because you know you got you aren't working,

(02:14):
fans and everything behind you. Oh I'm good. I just
can I just say something real because I usually share
no news about what I do outside this show, but
I'm just very excited number one some other podcast loving
Grid and jdi il but also because me and my godmother,
Diana Williams are producing a book for my dad on
his photography. Were going self published, and today we got
the word that a big publisher is like, I won't end,
So I just want to let go. What was this?

(02:39):
What was this era of photography if you don't know,
from the fifties to like the late eighties, and I'm
talking like from you know, he was the photographer at
the White House during the first Black Music Month event.
He's from the march on Washington to the twenty year anniversary,
to make it a holiday, just all the stuff, all
the we gotta interview one day, just so we can

(03:00):
find out about ourselves. All right. So, Bill, even though
I know that you're not Team in Kanto, yeah, I'm
still acting like you are. I know because all your
peeps are, you know about to I mean, I'd love
to be Team money Bags along with being Team and Kanto.

(03:21):
But you you created the thriller of Broadway albums. Yo. Yeah,
so did you. Mymiex are nice, so I know you're
Hamilton's checks are really nice. They're okay. So my girlfriend
and I are getting a new condo. Yes he said it, Yes,
he said it. So wait a minute, you're moving out

(03:43):
of what we've seen. I'm staying in this place. But
my girlfriend, uh, they're selling we rented there, they're selling
her place. So we're buying a new place. Oh that's
good man. I'm not getting married. Everyone stopped with the
knowing league plans and everything. I've already been married. I
don't believe you because I was listening. I happened to

(04:06):
be listening to a classic episode when Fante was happily
divorced and thought that was how it was like means
good old days. I mean, you know, we should all
have bliss and happiness that includes you, Tobe, Steve, Steve
happy this one. Yeah, happiness is all right. Uh, Fontiolo,

(04:30):
how's chilling? Man? Everything's good, Man, I'm good. I'm happy
to have teacher here today. There's been a long time coming.
I feel like she's really one of the kind of
critical unsung heroes of the genre. And um, I'm just
really happy to get her story today. So this has
been This is a dream come true for me. Man
still too young for unsung. Yeah, we're un sung, but
you know, yeah, I was joking. It wasn't just we're

(04:54):
sunging her. Um well yeah. As as uh Fante mentioned
about our afore mentioned guests, I'm gonna actually make it.
Afro mentioned if it's there you go. I knew that
that bill would instantly prove that there you go, we
be winning, and the Afro mentioned the two two words
that were you know, make it official. Our our guest today,

(05:18):
Uh is an awesome, awesome singer songwriter. Helling from the
City of Knowledge. Yes, I heard that residents of does
not like us, saying knowledge. We don't care what you do.
It's just a high. I already know where this episode

(05:41):
is going, having having written, having written for the for
the likes of Mary J. Blige, The Villa Nivia, Ni
Villa Nivia. I gotta, I gotta, you know, I gotta
get the lotion and the human right of getting correct.
I gotta get it. Okay, she's named after Lucien He's

(06:05):
naming it was also Macy Gray, I feel, sidiq neo,
many others that we could name her now debut Classic UH,
the almost twenty years old UH Complex Simplicity, was released
to a critical acclaim in two thousand four, instantly guarding

(06:25):
her praise from critics and a very loyal fan base.
We're very happy that she's doing us the honor of
chopping and mixing us for this long overdue conversation. Ladies
and gentlemen, please welcome to Quest Love Supreme the one
and only TDRA Moses Sir, Yeah, I think imna have
to pull me some conjact for this now. I really

(06:52):
truly wish this was a visual show, because this is
the exact backdrop that Denise Williams was in her episode
Classic Black and White photo above it, and you know,
an empty there you go. Damn anyway, how were you? Uh?

(07:13):
Were you right now? As we speak? Right now? I
live at Miami. Oh okay, you live in Miami. I see. Well,
you know, thank you for coming to the show. I
have to say, I think did you ever come to
any of our grammy jams? I think we played together once,

(07:34):
but I don't think we've ever spoken. We played together,
we've spoken like I think it was like a text
or something once, yeah, but never really like, hey, what's up?
I feel like this is all right, the first time
really talking. There you go, long overdue, long overdue? All right, Well,

(07:55):
I'll start like I start with everyone else. We're okay.
So where were you born? I know that you're helding
from New Orleans, but I don't know if you were
born there. I was born in Jefferson Parish, which is
right outside of Orleans Parish, and that's pretty much New Orleans.
So I was born in Kenna, Louisiana, which is like

(08:15):
the suburbs of New Orleans. Okay, so New Orleans and Jason.
Um what uh your family situation is? It? Is it
siblings or your parents that I have? Um? Two sisters,
two brothers. Four of us are from my mom and
dad and when it's just from my dad. Old. Um,

(08:37):
can you tell us what your first musical memory was?
Um My cousin was moving into a house behind my
tits house, and we cut a gate in because everybody
in you know, in the South, we all live around
each other and we do it around each other. So
we would cut gates or cut like little paths to
go to someone's house. And we tore the gate back

(08:59):
from my TAC's house to um my my cousin who
was moving to the house behind. And the whole time
she was unpacking, she was just plays that square of
his album. I was really little, but that ship was hard.
I loved it. I just I was a little kid
loving Team Read. That's my first. I guess gospel with
my first, because church. But the first time I really

(09:21):
was excited was Team Read because it must be magic
album that was yours, Yes, yes, musk that yeah, that's
so good. And she was just unpacking and dancing and
like all in her zone. It was her first place,
you know, and I was just watching that. I was
loving the music and I was supposed to be helping,
but I was litt kids. I couldn't really help. But

(09:43):
that's my first Marina music. Did you uh any experience,
like did you go through church as a singer or no.
I watched, and I think church made me feel like
I wasn't going to be I felt like I wasn't
good enough. I had sweet, little soft voice, and church

(10:04):
like I come from Southern mathis church and all show
a singer in the church was really big in our church,
singing it and like on the Southern shipment circuit of gospel.
So they had such really powerful voices that I think
I just never thought I was good enough. What was
your mother's name, Shirley Moses? Okay, And so she pretty

(10:27):
much for the same thing, a mare. That's so weird
that she said she was looking like that. I was like, exactly,
these didn't have a gospel Southern gospel belted voice. So
she just felt like, you know, she had a sweet
songbird voice and she just didn't feel like she belongs.
So okay, So you just tried to just blend in

(10:47):
with the the rest of the choir. You didn't do anything. No,
And I left New Orleans kind of before I developed
my voice. I would walk around the house, singing and
sing in the shower, think to the radio. But I
had to develop my voice. Yet I didn't develop my voice.
So I got to California like high school, so I
was I was a little and while I wasn't in

(11:09):
the guys, by the time we got to California, we
didn't real to go to church as much. And it
wasn't sudden back. It's it was just more like no donation,
not donation type music, which is totally different. Okay, your
experience in New Orleans is it? Could you describe what
the environment was? Um? You know, oftentimes I think everyone

(11:33):
in New Orleans either you know, has second line experiences
or you know, it's it's almost like if if if
the movie Fame were a city, I would imagine it
would be New Orleans where people just bust out, like
you know, everyone has to sing or do something musical
just to just to live or breathe or whatever. Was

(11:54):
that the experience were you down there, like it's just
music everywhere all day, even if it's not down to
like even it's not as as extensive as the second line.
You know, you in New Orleans, it's music and partying
all the time. Music party and drinking and eating and eating.
This is how every time I got to New Orleans,

(12:16):
I just know ten pounds you just gotta just just
give yourself that great because you know exactly as being
a Pestytian or vegetan, you can't do anything of that
stuff there. You just eat. You know, no nos fry

(12:36):
if New Orleans growing up and know those just music
everywhere from you know, jazz on the streets if you're
in the city, you know, to gospel. Gospel is very,
very big. They're xotico um, you know. Then they came Bounce,
and hip hop was always big for us. But before Bounce,
we just listened to h New York hip hop, you know.
So it was like more based on that in music everywhere.

(12:56):
I don't ever recall, like even in the school I
want to. I went to all school, uh private school
by the name of St. John the Wark, and we
had choir and our teacher was a lady name of
Shadows who passed not too long ago. But she's like
the first person that kind of showed me my voice.
We just had music everywhere Sundays, on church, Tuesdays and

(13:16):
Wednesdays or whatever for choir. Her so you know, all
my brother and his his turn to music everywhere. We
had lock parties. And then outside of that, then you
do have second lines and it's just music everywhere. It's
it's to the point that you don't even notice it.
It's just that I want to ask you a question,
since you're from the area, about because that's just a

(13:38):
kind of music that we didn't really in the Carolinas.
We didn't really get a lot of it. But like
a lot of my homies like Louisiana, um Texas, you
know what I'm saying, like and this, and it has
a big black following. Like I followed a lot of
like dance stuff on I g like a lot of
dancers and there's like some Zyetaco dance like they were
doing their motherfucker was getting it. I know, it's not

(14:01):
it's not stepping, it's like a it's it's because your
dancing close, like the man and the woman danced close,
so it's not like a step. But it's crazy. I
just only I just knew the music. It was a club.
The man they was, it was duding, cowboy had it
was all brothers, like brothers. I've never seen place side
ago because all my black all mind side of experiences

(14:22):
are like the white guys, well, there's because it's it's
a little bit more cajun Is than Creole, you know
what I'm saying. It's more Cajun Gatorish than Creole, which Cajun.
You know, Cajun and Creole is totally different. It's kind
of like white white basically black which part Creole Creole

(14:45):
is black and French African and French, and then the
Cajun is more from when uh, the Louisiana purchase happened,
and it went all the way into Canada, and then
they migrated down the Canadians, the French Canadians migrating down
to Louisiana, and they're kind of like above us. They're
not really in the bottom. They're not at the bottom
with us, the Creole people, but they mixed eventually came down.

(15:05):
But it's more like here's a simple thing. Creole, we
eat our gunnable with rice, can eat their grunble with
with like what they eating it with potato salvad Just
totally different, yes, exactly, it's just totally different cases. White
French from from Canada, Creole African French. Okay, so since

(15:30):
you open the door. Now, I gotta ask, are your
culinary skills as good as your musical skills. I can cook,
I can really cook. But here's the thing. I started
trying to be healthy, so I have to go back
to my old ways to really, you know, throw it
down for you. Like I don't use button and everything anymore,
but I use butting everything. But I'm cooking good because

(15:51):
that's the base of awful food, really good. But you
know what I mean. So I can cook. I can definitely.
I mean, nobody's gonna leave my table knockings or my
bad but that's the whole little story. Yeah, this is
what I'm seeing for it's my dress. Like, yeah, it's like,

(16:13):
what's you're trained to do in the South? You're training
those areas you go, you know, you go hard in
those areas, your bad movie kitchen, you get that together.
You got everything good. I mean your workout game must
be amazing, Okay, I mean yeah, because you gotta have
energy and you gotta have room. Okay. And I'm at
a wawspor Ords right now. I forgot interviewing, So so

(16:35):
I was thinking about you. You're you're talking about your
l A days. I didn't know um talking about your
days with the Good Life Cafe. Honestly, you came up
kind of around that. S yeah, I want to ELI
at fourteen, and I moved. Telling I moved. I didn't
move to l A m to West Scoveno, which is
in the valley, and so we would travel into the

(16:56):
city to get Because I moved from New Orleans to
West Scope the valley, it was culture shock. So I
found friends that came from you know, their parents had
taken them out of the city because its games and
stuff like that into the valley. And so I found
friends that I could travel into the city way, and
we found Good Life and the Murder Park and all
that stuff. And it was just an unbelievable movement, you know,

(17:17):
of musicians and hip hop. And I also was not
with my uh sons. My children's father Ras cast and
so he kind of would I was kind of like,
we're gonna run around with him and I would just
it was amazing. It was in retrospect, we didn't know
then what it was, but in retrospect it was kind
of like a a big pot of all these creative
people and it just kind of spilled and bled onto you.

(17:40):
You know, you learned about things that I knew jazz,
but I didn't know the con jazz and they were
telling me about I knew about hip hop up I
didn't know like what you know. It was just like
a really really great community of young musicians and young
creative and not all musicians. Who else was in the
good Life because I think for some folks who never
heard of it, well I wasn't in it, Okay, you

(18:00):
would just thought I would witnessed it. I would witness
it because they would have these functions and you know
people right. The one that I probably would probably was
more verse with was Unity Bigger b I think his
name was. He did this thing called Unity, yeah, and
he had this thing where he would bring all of
these different artists to l A. He was like the

(18:21):
first person to bring all these different artists to l A.
I knew good life and I would be around that.
But what I paid attention to more so is when
gradical to a good life, I mean, I give up
unity and we would see like Woutane Clan at all
these different people that really weren't coming to l A,
you know when they were first starting. But good life
was more something that I was around a few times.

(18:42):
Unity was to me the thing that I don't think
it's talked about enough in l A. Bigger Be had
a whole movement. I think the first person that kind
of had this going on, it was pre my time
was the Uncle Jam army guy. Yeah, but Bigger B
was like that for real hip hop and true hip
hop lovers, you know. And I was just kind of

(19:03):
like a tag along the grass. Oh no, no, I
was gonna say that. Um, it just hit me that
my first year at Fallon, this uh new filmmaker name
ever Renee came to interview me. I believe her first
film project was about the Good Life Cafe. I think

(19:26):
it was called this Is It was called this is
the Life I think. Yeah, but has that has that officially?
Have you guys seen it? Has it officially come out?
Or I thought it was on Showtime something I think
I think, I don't want to lie was maybe that's
not what I saw, but I saw a documentary type
of thing about good life. Yeah no, no, it was

(19:47):
her first joint. Yeah it's um, I know, or bus
Driver one of my favorite underground He's saying underground, it's
such a you know, it's like damning someone to only
the purple property at the beginning of the monopoly poor

(20:09):
but you know your fan like Freestyle Fellowship, um, the
Jurassic five cats, Um, that's very much. Yeah, John Medusa
like yeah, I'll say, like, you know, when we first started,
even though they were at the tail end of oh

(20:29):
Far Side, also they were at the tail end of
their era. That's when the roots first started coming out there.
But we, like I met a lot of those guys
almost felt like we were you know, they're distant cousins
um often doing shows out there, and you know, we
kind of ask the question, we quickly why don't more
people talk about the Four Side, because I think the
Far Side for the West Coast was kind of like

(20:52):
and think maybe this is overstepping comparable to track called
Quests Bizarre Ride. I mean, that's it. That's that's me
and Night Marauders. Let's come up. Because the thing is
is that, unfortunately, I was trying to figure out another

(21:13):
two piece with Biscuit, which is like big like unfortunately
it's like you know, for the Far Side one, it's
been thirty years and it's really technically two albums like
that one album I don't know they took themselves out

(21:34):
the running even though both of the classic And here's
the thing Eminem will say all day that literally Eminem's
you know, said this a billion times that his whole presentation,
like the cartoony voice, the word play, all that stuff
like Bizarre Ride to the Far Side was Eminem's blueprint

(21:57):
for the first three uh, for the first three records
of his Like if you listen to a rhyme and
all this stuff, like the cartooning voice and all that stuff,
Like he's essentially just you know, that's him just overdosing
on on the far side. Um, yeah, you're right, definitely
for a lot of I mean, I wasn't those people

(22:19):
that like went territorial, like oh they're East coast, they're
West coast. But I definitely remember them changing the perception
of of what we thought na for us it was
for us on this side, it was far side. Of course,
absolutely soulds of mischief and the alcoholics. Alcoholics man then

(22:42):
was my nigger. But I'll say that, Um, when we
heard Bizarre Ride to the Far Side, that was the
prime reason why, um we put Scott's Storch in the roots,
because you know, they were using. It's so weird that,
you know, even though Tribe had been doing it the

(23:04):
way that Jay Swift was using Fender Rhodes on that album,
you know, the whole Tremulou sound and all that stuff.
Like I was like, we need that sound too, so
enter Scott starts coming into the roots and you know,
but yeah, we weren't. Actually they've reunited with the is
it Brudy Brown, it's not in the group, I know

(23:26):
that is that fat list everybody? For everything? Yeah, Man
strang me so much too. I didn't love what they did,
and I just would really like it when people are
talking about that era they would get a little bit
more because they really I saw how much they influence

(23:49):
a lot of the rappers that came after them on
the West Coast. All right, my gift to hip hop
is I gotta start a life coaching service for rapper. No,
it's real, like I'm currently I don't even know if
I have to say this. I'm trying to get my
life coach two. Talk to both Run and d about

(24:14):
how much valuable time they are wasting, because I mean,
runding them sees like our rolling Stones Yoe and for
them to just it's a communication and I've talked to
both of them and they're down to like, yeah, okay,
I'll do life coaches like leg like hip hop needs
this and if if you can, you got to get

(24:37):
the gods together. You basically say, they gotta be together
so that we can champion them, so then they can
really win and we can champion them like a lot
of these other legends. Yes, so right now the far
Side is back as the far Side, although technically now
they spell it with an F and not a pH.
His head, You don't. You don't know what's happening right

(24:58):
now with no idea, not this is that, not with that.
So they they're there now if you go on their
Instagram page as the Far Side towards F A R
S I D like the cartoon right like whatever, Yeah, yeah,

(25:20):
it's it's three four of them are back now. So
were you and Brass were y'all pursuing music at the
same time at that time coming up? Um was? Or
were you just were you like actually founded singing as
well and he was rhyming? Or how was I was

(25:42):
he was? You could say no, he didn't really know,
like I didn't really um I did wardrobe for years,
like I would be around I mean, Hype did my
first video. I would be around Hype. He didn't, he
didn't know, Like everybody just didn't know because Williams that, yeah,
he did. I would be around Hype with I would

(26:04):
be around all kind of executives because the wardrobe, I
would be with ras a different places. I mean, I
just didn't talk about that because it was his time.
His was his time, you know. And I'm from the South,
you know, so I'm one of those women. It's like, Okay,
you do those and I trust that when it's my time,
I'll do mine, you know what I mean. But we're
gonna focus on you right now. But this just focus.

(26:24):
This stuff came back to me so I can go
figure it out by myself. But he did introduce me
to the guy that did my um first album with me,
but he we didn't. He didn't even know I really
sing like that. I mean I may have. He may
have heard me singing a little bit, and you know,
I think I may have done some singing and come
to do this song because he knew I could sing
a little, But it wasn't something that I made a
big deal about. Did it weird him out when you

(26:48):
finally became transparent with your voice and sort of came
out the shadows like Okay, I'm singing, I'm pursuing this.
Did it? No? I don't think it weirded him out.
I just remember we worked together at this point. He
introduced me to the guy Paul Pauli. I did the
first time when we started working. Paul Pauli started working,
and then he was supposed to be involved. He was

(27:09):
supposed to be involved, but I think it was just like, oh,
it's my baby, mama, she's singing, you know what I mean?
He didn't. I remember one day we were driving somewhere
and he was like, this is really good. We're gonna
make a lot of money. Asked that because yeah, I

(27:32):
dated someone who never revealed to me that she was
a classically chained pianist. So I accidentally how long it was?
Like it was like two years. Like I think I
shared this story before where I was late for a
sound check, had to circle back to the hotel and

(27:53):
I was in one of those weeks that had a
piano in it. She was this, I mean, it was
like a couple of stuffs steps above like for at least.
I mean, it wasn't like like like I walked in
the room, like what is this? It's like two years
like you didn't tell me, you know how played piano.

(28:14):
So yeah, that that was that was weird to me.
That's what I meant, like, did you hold it back
for so long ago? He knew because I was, He
knew I could have like a little bit. He knew
I could sing a little because he would hear me
around the house singing little things like that. So you
said that your first entry into the business wasn't even
with singing. It was with fashion first. Yeah, my best

(28:36):
friend was a warder. She still is to the state
designer ndre Kenty. She was a wardrobe stylist at the time,
and I needed money. I got laid off on my
job from sitting there starting in a too long. I
was bored. What was before? I was an administrator assistant
administrator at um A, a architectural firm that built up

(29:01):
high Oh. I was for ship Girl and the internet
was new, So I would just be on the internet
looking at anything I can look at. And this is
back when it was dollar. So you signed up, you
signed up, the phoneigned up their phone. Yeah right right, yeah,

(29:25):
talk about you talk about being a stylist and like
that moment first of all, when you felt comfortable enough
to make the transition to let people know where you
slowly letting people know, like with you sing a little
bit while you're just you know, fixing the outfit. And
somebody was like, no, and maybe that's what you're supposed
to do, but I think that's corny and ship. I
think whatever you're there to do, that's what you do. Yes,

(29:47):
that's how I feel. So I would be there putting
on somebody's shoes or rolling down you know, and even
with like guys trying to talk to you or whatever.
I just always kept as a job. This I'll take
care of my son's you know. So I just kept
it the job. And like I said, I would be
around these different people dancers, singers, artists, all this stuff
and go, hey, you teach them. And if you smoke cannabis,

(30:08):
if you're in a video sets, you're gonna be in
a circle with all kind of people, so they know, yeah,
we're smoking together. Once your disciple with somebody that's your
best friends, we're talking. So we would all be around smoking,
doing you know in between, you know, stuff like that.
But I just never mentioned it because first of all,
I'm shot, which no one knows that when it comes

(30:32):
to her talent, I believe you. I don't like subjection,
you know what I mean. So if somebody wants to
tell me I wasn't good, it was gonna either get
violent or sad too. I was gonna get you. You
see him a little awesome high. I'm better now because

(30:57):
but the thing is, you know that, and I didn't
you just I was young, you know, but no one knew.
No one knew because I was just doing my job
and I just was appreciative of what I was doing
at that time. And I remember Rag and I broke up,
and that's when I started pursuing it because it was like,
I can't just I saw my friend doing what she

(31:20):
loved and I stopped. I stopped doing uh, um, the
wardrobe styling because I broke my leg. And while I
was sitting there on downtime and collecting my eighteen hundred
dollars a month in um, what do you call it?
When workers camp, I was like, are you gotta figure
something out? And did y'all have the twins? At that
point y'all full fledge in this thing. I was. They

(31:42):
were like three years old. I was, you know, res
and I went together. I was pretty much take care
of about myself. And I was like, you gotta figure
this out because I couldn't. I couldn't go work at
the post office. I wouldn't be one of those people
that killed anybody, you know what I mean? Like, I
couldn't do that? But did you know you could write
the song? And I'm like, did you know? I say this?

(32:03):
I'm saying that from the standpoint people, you can't stifle
things and you can't like suppress these things, but they
come out wrong. It's gonna come out and I not
be good. So I didn't know I could write songs
because I would get all the rats. We get these
packs from Dave J. Diller, and that's who I would
write over. I'll write over unreleased Jay Diller beats. And

(32:25):
I didn't even know who when he was getting these drugs.
I didn't know. I was just singing over and I
loved um like Water for Chopping. I love that album
so much. And eventually he told me, all that's the
same deal that did you know? And it came together
but I wrote so many songs over Jay. I wrote
like maybe to one beat, three or four songs because

(32:46):
that's what I had did. Did you and Jay Della ever?
Did he ever know that? Like, did you know? I didn't.
I know, I never met this man. I didn't. I
didn't know. You know, I didn't know. I just loved
music and so with rats but have I would go
through whatever he had and he I remember he particularly
had this CD from Jay Diller, and I would play
those that CD over and over and write songs to those.

(33:08):
Something I would write of a Prince record. I would
write over already written songs and I would just hear
the music and start to formulate my own song over music.
That's that's harder. That's that's harder than a lot of
people realized, to like write over oh god yeah, to
take yeah yeah. I like to just take something that's
already established and just write a new song over that,

(33:31):
to hear that in a different way. Like that's that's
especially don't book print songs. I did that often. I
just you know, I don't know if you guys ever
were in the place where you couldn't do it or
didn't seem like a realistic thing for you. I just
wanted to do it. However, I could do it because
it was in me and it needed to come out
to the point that it was making me depressed and sad.

(33:51):
I didn't even know why, you know, So I just
had to do it. And I would just take writing
computer and putting his CD and just start his CDs
of bats and start. Can I ask one question? Because
the thing is is this might be the only chance
that we get to ask a former stylist a question. Okay,
and I'm also you know, I'm I'm I'm a I mean,

(34:14):
I'm a Kenyan Barrass supporter and complete it. So you know,
Zoe's character on on Grown Ish is a stylist now
and she good for you, Americ. I'm supporting all my
Kenyan Barrass projects, you know, thinking thing. But my question
is what is the process of being well? First of all,
who who your clients? Were? These established? Oh? Yeah, no,

(34:37):
we we were Will Smith's silent team for about two
to three years. Um police nas our Kelly, these are good. Yeah,
we were my friend she had two of us from
high school. Were just high school friends like having fun,
you know, and so she was the key Najre was
the key, my other We were all three best friends.

(34:58):
Naji was the key, I was um more administrative, and
my friend Misha Long she was also like a second
in line for like creative and um we would kind
of like the mod squad. I don't give a herd
about squad with Julie Ambrose, we kind of like that
and um, you know, we would be on different different sets.
She would have three jobs going at the time. I'm

(35:19):
on this set, just one of the set. We got
assistance something that you know, we had a whole thing moving.
How do you secure like, okay, so for me, my
my crock up sessions getting a little crazy now, So
how do you secure accounts from? Do you go to
like from established the companies and also from newer people,

(35:42):
Like how do you call them? You just call them?
So you went back then, that's all we had to
do is call them, send them a letter, let them
know that we're working facts in back then, a letter,
let them know that we're working on something and if
they were interested in that artist, they with them and
it's products and back then, you know, back then it
was like lots of money involved. They gave you. People

(36:03):
were giving a lot of things away, so we could
have to click I know. But even when we would
come in with a new maybe because we had top clients,
when we come in with a new artist, you could
get them all stup. I mean we would do projects
sometimes and pay for nothing because we could get so
much stuff for free from these different phone companies. You
just kind of we just reached out. But I also

(36:23):
know that it's problematic where an artists will like an
article or garment a little bit too much and then
you're not gonna see it again. I've been more of
many video suits where it's like, what are those Jordans
that you know? That sort? So yeah, but now in
the product place place the situation they're giving to now

(36:46):
where you're when you're going to a studio service, which
is you know you probably know this, really you're going
you have to pull clothes from you know, the different
department stores or Gucci or whoever they let out the
clothes on consignment. This is is where the problems came.
Where the rappers boy, where the boys are like, you know,

(37:09):
you have to stand next to for all days something
because they won't literally try to take it, and then
you know you would be on sets with rappers that
have like fifty dudes from the hood, and you're in
the hood, you're not just you're in Queensbridge with fifty
people that's here, they're supposed to be here, then hundreds
of others that's not. And five for two hundred and

(37:31):
ten pounds I have to protect. This whole trailer full
of merchandise is probably up to about a cool hundred
thousand dollars. You know. You know, you've been in a
situation before Jane where you was like, I'm not people
don't know, but you heard what she said. She said
people never ever not even tested, not even tested. No,
because it's like, at the end of the day, I
come from a place where I know what's going on,

(37:53):
you know, so when I see and I also talk
to people with respect and tell people what's really going on,
Like I got kiss to feed, don't mess me up.
You take this stuff and I messed you know, I
gotta stept from out my pocket and you take them,
you know, So you talk to people like they're like,
oh baby, girl's all good. You know what I got whatever?
And if I could get you something, if you know,
because it would be like some freezing because here you're
gonna take this. This is what you get. You can't
have this, This have to be paid for. Just conversence, converse.

(38:18):
I appreciate this exactly. Just ask my style stylent's question. Like,
on that note, since you talked about being in ciphers
and being on sets and whatnot, did your experiences as
a stylist, uh kind of make you a little apprehensive
about entering the music business or were was it like, Okay,
I feel like maybe I know a little extra because
I've been around on the other side, you know, it

(38:40):
didn't make me apprehensive as much as just like these
people crazy, you know, all the crazy and it's different,
you know what I mean. So like I learned, then
this is not real world. Like you're from a place
where when someone says, hey, teach you up, you know
how they really mean that they need it. When I'm
from a new all this your faces, what you see

(39:01):
on somebody's faces, what it is. And now I'm in
this situation where you cannot tell who's really who's style,
you know, So then I just got to this place
so I just assume everybody's face. It surprised me and
it helped me moving forward to and it helped me

(39:22):
moving forward in the music to realize that they're way
more of the people than I thought. You know, when
you start out thinking everybody's a little phony and faith
and then you start to me genuine people and you
connect with your tribe, it gets really cool. So it
helped me to think that I could endure it knowing
what I was getting into. How did you make the
transition from styling to songwriting? Um, I broke my leg.

(39:44):
I broke my leg. We were doing a job and
like to paint the canyon or something like that, and
I had taken time off and i was just my
first job back because now I'm hating styled. You know,
I got to this point where I was hating styled
just like I was hating was back. I broke my legs.
I kind of make the clam but what's my favorite bout?

(40:09):
And I just kind of like what I I was
healing up to go back to something that not. I
loved working with my friends and all this stuff. But
as much as I like close, I like put them
on myself. I'm not I'm not a person of service
type of person. I'm really an artist, you know, I'm
really an artist, so it was just strange for me too.
I kind of want to do this, not open up

(40:31):
my mouth to tell anybody I want to do it,
but I'm putting clothes on people that are doing it
and no envy of them. It just became very frustrated,
like I don't want to do this anymore. And God
looking be broken my leg and sat me down and
made me have to figure out what I really wanted
to do and come to terms with because I already knew,
just come to terms with, like go for it, wrap
this up and real follow me. He just had to

(40:53):
help me. He didn't have a choice. He did something
so far that he didn't have a choice to deny
me what I was asking. And that's kind of how
he started from the sum Yeah, so okay, without getting
into what he did. So when you say he you
know he did, you was that he put you on
in some way, like with the job right, And he

(41:13):
just introduced me to someone. The first person I wanted
to sit down before I even went to go make
my album was Rodney Jerkins. He was working on my friend.
My friend, Um, you guys have to part me. I
smoke a lot of candidates and my brain seals together.
But my friend, um he works with uh because at

(41:35):
the time we had worked with Will Smith for years
and UM, my friend he worked with Will Smith, so
he couldn't he He knew lots of different producers and
he was really good friends with Rodney Jerkins, and he
just would hear things. I don't know how he knew
I wrote maybe I was maybe I recorded something over
a beat or up and I let him here because
he was my friend, so I didn't I let him
here or whatever. And he was like, you'll teach you.
Come he's writing for Destiny's Child, that he's working for

(41:58):
Destiny working on Jesse's Child's album. Now come to the
studio and me brought me in bla blah blah blah.
And that's like the first person I sat down with.
And I think that's when you got a rat start
to take it serious, that I might really start doing this,
you know. And then when that thing happened, and he's
just like, Okay, cool, I'll introduce you to Paul Paully.

(42:19):
Paul Paul and I just started kind of getting a
vibe going. And Paul Polly, I don't think thought I
was that good. I was like, you gotta sting more,
you gotta pushed more, you got blah blah blah, And
I was thinking, I don't really want to do that,
but okay, I'll try because I just wanted to. I
just wanted to make music. And we just kind of
started going from there. But I don't know was Paul
was he well, before we get into that, which is

(42:39):
your songwriting stuff? Um, dip it low? How did that
come about? All of my song Why they came about?
While I was working with Paul Paully working on my album.
They were all songs for me, every song I gave
away until I started to actively write the songs for
other which I learned I wasn't really good at writing
for other people. I was better at writing songs for

(42:59):
myself and then letting them fit into my outfit, you
know what I mean. So yeah, that's where all of
my songs came from. That is it aren't writing for
other people because you know, you would have to know
their life experience in order to speak for them. I
think quest is like goes back to being the stylist.
I didn't really want to do it, and I'm a
sagittarious and it's like we really want to do what

(43:22):
we want to do. We so help and on do
what we want to do. So when I would sit
down to write for people, I don't think I cared
enough about what their experience was, you know, like I
didn't get it. I didn't care enough to get into them.
I had to literally write for people that we're just
singing my songs. It was so hard for me to

(43:42):
try to figure out what this little young pop girl on.
I just had to just put myself in that place.
I couldn't consider them, you know, even even if it's
a situation of a big client that yeah, Mary J Blige,
I put myself in Mary J Blige place. You know,
I couldn't be married. Plus I probably could be married
because you know she raised out of us, you know

(44:03):
what I mean. So, but the thing is like I
had to put my way of learning how to do
it was to say, Okay, be calm. Now you're becoming
because trying to pull it out of them or have
the time. Some people, it's just like a style. Some
people don't know what they want to say. You know,
some people don't know what they want to do, and
it's very yeah, you know, it's very hard to pull

(44:27):
personality and all this stuff out of because you have
to understand it. Also at this time, we're doing better now.
This time when I was writing, it was trash out there.
So I'm coming in and I'm singing this song and
it sounds so great in that I was like, oh,
and I was like, I love it, I love it,
I love it. This is great, this is great, this
is great. But the bitch can't saying so now that
now she's trying to sing this song and you hate it,

(44:47):
and now you can being at me. You're looking at me,
And I did my job. Are you there? Nine times
out of ten? Uh? For the vocal tracking? Like do
they want you? Sometimes and then sometimes not? But if
I'm there, you know what I'm doing quest I'm put
the voice on. I'm just gonna lay myself all over
this thing. We're gonna sus gonna be good straight up.

(45:09):
And that's trick. You know. It's just really hitting me.
I mean, are you peeping that? Like if here in
journey and everything? I'm really I was thinking about this earlier.
I was like, teacher and Fante are everything she's saying,
best friends in our heads. We didn't talk on true

(45:30):
about doing Listen, No, everything you're saying nothing, it's coming.
It's coming. We just you know the right time, but
it's coming. But no, seriously, everything you're saying that was
exactly like what I saw, kind of like working as
a songwriter. And it was just one of those things
where it's like, Okay, I don't wrote the song and
sang it and the tract it produced it, I might
look at this ship for me, you know what I'm saying, Like,

(45:51):
rather than sending it to whoever else and got a
lot of money, I wasn't. I've never been signed to
a publishing company, so nobody was putting me in the studios.
It's been got home studios. And I'm spending all this
money to go on the studio to write these songs,
now you know what I mean. I'm spending all my
money going Sometimes I would go in and they will
put me in whatever. But when you're gunning to just
get a song to art artists, you're you're gonna go

(46:13):
and be proactive and you know, figure out yourself and
then you're loving it. You're loving it, you love it,
you love it. And then we go in and she
can't sing and you're mad at me. And I just
never understood that. Like I said, we're doing better now
I will get artists that can actually perform, you know,
but back then it was rough. Yeah. That was why
I think that you saw like pre auto tune these girls,

(46:35):
you know. I was like, lord, yeah, it was Yeah.
That was why I think we saw like in like
the early two thousand's, like when you saw like Neo Um,
Carrie Hillson, Um, like Sean Garrett, like you started seeing
those songwriters kind of become artists. Like I saw that
ship coming. I'm like, all the work that they're doing, yeah,
they might as well put let me add this fonte.

(46:58):
The producers getting forty on the track and I'm getting
let's talk about it. Let's talk all the way about it, right,
let's here, y'all talk about it. Talk about man, Well,
I let teach you go in. You know, you're not
getting paid. You're not getting paid to the producer gets
paid for making a track, he gets front in the
back end. I don't know if it's changed out, because
I don't really write for people like that no more.

(47:20):
My pieces with myself, it's not it's worse. It's even worse.
I don't do it anymore. But it's it's yeah, it's trash,
So you don't write on spec anymore. That's what songwriters are.
Songwriters are supposed on spec. Yeah, and I'm not. I'm
not a work for higher person. I'm just not there.
And I never really publishing company. I found that like whoa,
Okay no, and I own my own stuff, so I'm

(47:41):
gonna either way because people like me and I can
just tell my own stuff. Now, you're all right, take
us on what's the beginning or the genesis of what
we now know is complex simplicity? Might like the moment
where you're like, I'm not one to sh on my
own so asted the thing, right, families completely, we're not

(48:08):
coming back after this. Right, it's done. We're never doing
this after that. But I didn't take them back because
you know that I was. But I moved to a
new place left, and we get back together, and then
I'm like, okay, I can't do this anymore. He introduces
me to this producer. But in this interim of us
not being together, in the producing meeting, the producing, my
mom dies. That's my whole world. I'm I'm my family

(48:30):
is everything to me. I was twenty four five something
like that. I had these two sons. The father is
not he didn't want kids. He told me that or something.
It's what is and um, I'm stuck. And it literally
was like, I don't know how it's explained. What it

(48:50):
was like. I wasn't gonna breathe and unless I got
this stuff out of me. You know, I wasn't gonna
breathe unless I got all this pain out of me.
And that's really where it came from me just writing,
going every day to Paul the house single Inndale and
I lived in Pasadena, which is very close to each
other in the l A and going to his house
every day and just you know, first of all, the

(49:13):
night before, sitting standing in front of Merit in time time,
just writing song. I'm singing to myself, you know, writing
songs because trying to make myself happy. I was very sad.
And then going in the next day and playing these songs,
and I remember we got down to um this song
that was called UM, what's the last song on my album?
Do you remember the work to Mama? I think of you, yeah,

(49:38):
shout out to Canadas. But anyway, so I was I
was trying to um, I was trying to performing in
the studio, and I just kept following that they were
they felt so bad for me. I literally would just
keep trying to sing it, and if I would get
one note out, I will fall down to the ground
and just start crying, because just a year after she
had passed, and I really, when I looked back and

(50:00):
retrospect quasically, it was just me just trying to get
all this pain. I didn't care about many of y'all
hair in this record. I didn't care about if it
was gonna be number one. That's why people want to
see people say, oh, we wish this what I had. No,
you have to put intentions behind things. I had no
intention but to get it out. What happened to what

(50:20):
happened to it. I didn't care. And then when one
day PAULI was dropping me off at my house and
he was leaving and I was like, we should call
it simplistic or something. I said it factors. I said
something like simple, complexity, year something like that, and he
was like, yeah, complex, simplicity, Yeah. And then I started
to think about it, like maybe about a year after
it came out, and it was like literally what my

(50:41):
life was at that time. It was literally what my
life was at that time. Complex simplicity, I was just
life happens. But I didn't understand that. I was too
young to understand. People die, your man, cheat and do
horrible things to you. He might not even say you
got kids. You know, I wasn't it at all for

(51:01):
the life I have fallen into. And uh, Complex Simplicity
was the beginning of me starting to understand my path
and how I had to go. It was like, literally,
like I guess it's just that was the diary of
me growing up. Talk about Paul PAULI because I never knew,
like I mean, I had never seen him produced. I

(51:21):
don't know if he did anything after that, but your
record was the first time I really saw him, you know, uh,
really featured in that way. What was what was his
story and what was his background? Uh? He is Armenian
and um comes from wealth. His family owned like Jewish
serge and stuff like that. But he loved music. He
loved me just so much. And I think the thing
I knew that he did before Complex Simplicity that did

(51:44):
really well was that's the joint, that's the jam. Oh yeah, yeah, right, yeah,
he did that and he worked with Rise and you know,
and I wasn't really eager to work with him. I
wasn't at all. But the first, the very first song
that he the very first be he gave me was
on that caution, um uh no, let's go. Yeah, that's

(52:14):
the very verse be he gave me. And that's the
very first song I ever recalled it. And that's on
that out Like that's the very first song I ever
wrote it for. It's the very first song I ever recorded.
And we just clicked right away. He's the satinary's too
used to go crazy, like, oh that might be don't
wanted to stand it with this black leady. It was

(52:37):
so like he literally just started streaming everyone they're like
Charlie Paully was a great guy and like we had
a chance because we did an anniversary thing, you know,
had a chance to see him. And he doesn't do
music anymore, like you know, he went completely away from
music and you know, has a beautiful family and everything.

(52:58):
He's actually he does the music he does Chris music,
you know, the saying it turns to turn you out,
make you go completely, it will make you go. Makee
song you know what I'm saying. He chose that rob
but really great guy, very very still when I hear
stuff he does, you know, it's still got that same
time anything. Yeah, great, guys. Can we just stay in

(53:20):
complex and simplicity for a second, because I wanted to
ask you a question about songs, like I wanted to
ask you. You know, you said you want the studio crying,
and I was looking at the list and I was like,
you'll never find which could technically be like one of
those songs, but it comes so hard. And I was
curious about the story behind that song too, like and
I guess it's all right, how much I'm guessing all

(53:44):
all of it is, which is guest the time, I didn't.
I didn't know that at the time they would be
like this something about rest. I'm like, no, it's not
because it was pouring out so naturally. I didn't think
it was about anything. I didn't know what I was doing,
you know what I mean. I just was pouring out
and um, you'll never find. Um was the the lady
I can't stand the rights and people it's and people

(54:07):
see a sample and she was seeing, you know, on
that record, the sample that we sampled. You know, you'll
never find a better woman or a bigger food. So
we knew. I knew that's what I was gonna build
off of. When he told me the sample, man, you
should hear me and PAULI had this great thing, like
I've never had this before in my life, the same
thing like with me and rap at this great thing

(54:27):
and I've never had it again. It's like these two,
those two guys, he had this connection. There was something different.
And with Pauli in the music side, we would sit
there and like get so excited, you know what I mean,
so excited about the music. So he would he let
me hear the sample and he was let me hear
where it came from and let me hear what he did.
It was really amazing. And I was like, and he
was just using h I think he used a bit

(54:48):
of her singing in it. And I was like, Okay,
that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna speak from that.
Because I was going through a bunch of ships in
my relationship at the time, and I was leaving. I
hadn't left yet. I mean, I was like one ft
in one put out. You know, when you're a mother
of somebody's children, they kind of got access to you,
probably up until five. So I always tell my homegirls,
like if he got MoMA and he's still kids five,

(55:11):
because that's just kind of how it goes, just how vos.
I don't know why, but it doesn't. So this is
essentially Can I ask how familiar were you with Marvin

(55:34):
Gaye here, my dear, and how much influence did that happen?
I mean, at what point did you realize that this
wasn't just an album of yours but this was your diary,
your social media, you're and were there anything that was

(55:55):
to t in mine that you decided Nope, I can't
put this verse on there or this this is everything
not for self. No, I didn't. I didn't have that
kind of self cool at the time. I just was
doing whatever came out. I didn't know that to filter myself.
But let's let's let me tell you this. I had
heard here, my dear, Great, I don't. We're not really
paying attention, you know. I hadn't really paid attention like

(56:18):
that until afterwards. I was. I got into it and
I connected with it so very much. I heard it before,
but I think not until I lived that and then
experienced it after it. And one time I pulled up
the Blaze sing and I was playing I was playing

(56:41):
here my Dear, and Raman was like, don't listen to that.
I don't. It was like that to yourself, don't listen
to that that you should you want to be happy,
don't listen to that. I mean, it's just like I
didn't know. I didn't to state and you asked, when
did I know? It was my dad diary. Plus I
didn't know the album was that good because I I'm
hard on myself, right, So I never thought it was

(57:02):
that good. I didn't know the album was that good
till about three years later, and yeah, well you know,
start coming back to me. Yeah, I started coming back
to me, you know, and then he became the international
fun that motherfucker album. Yeah, You're like, people start coming
up to you shaking and crying, you know, freaking you out.

(57:25):
You say, oh, well, maybe you did something kind of cool.
You know, maybe maybe you did something. But I never
I never took it that serious to this day, I don't,
you know. I just feel like we do things it
pours out of us. I feel like we're just vessels,
like you know, you've got to open it and then
you got to spout from God pours into you and
you pour out, and that's just how it goes. So
I don't want to and I don't hold a lot

(57:47):
of ownership to the accolades that come with it or
the criticism. I don't hold that stuff. So I can't
really hold you know, like, oh I did this thing.
I'm just grateful. I was investling talk about being girl.
That one was so for us, like on the on
the like the heavy hip hop side. The thing that
caught me about that it was a sample of the

(58:09):
replay of a record NAS that did called one on One,
which was it was on the Street Fighter soundtrack, which
like that she was crazy, so random, like it wasn't
like a big NAS record, but it was you know,
if you knew what, you knew it And so I
was like, oh damn, she's singing over that. Then the
beat drop, I was like, oh, she's singing singing like
this ship is hard. So how did that one get

(58:31):
chosen to be the single? And kind of what was
that trajectory like to see that record kind of go
up the label chosen as the single? Um I thought
it was first of all, I didn't want to be
so mellow y'all said, got this hyper. I could have
been a rapper, you know. I have such a hyper personality,
so I didn't want to be so mellow. That's where
PAULI came in to like smooth me out, you know
what I mean. He was like, well, his number one

(58:52):
question was always any annoyed to ship out me? He
would always like what a lead singer with a singer
with ale do? And I'm like, why do you keep
because I wasn't. Really I wasn't like, you know, simp
like soft like that in central like that. I mean
maybe I was, and I just didn't see it, you
know what I mean, because my friend would always tell
me that's always been you rather and see it. So
um when that when we first started on that beat,

(59:15):
it had these dirty dirt, way dirty, and drums like
kind of Bryany Stegn not not so like they didn't
crack like the ones that are actually on the record,
and ras did that rast Um, he was like, put
the Mary Jane girls drumps on it instead, you know.
And that's kind of how that came about. And the
street fight of thing. I'm gonna tell you the truth,

(59:35):
I didn't know that that was a sample from nas seeing.
I don't know. I just would watch Belly every day,
multiple times, multiple times, sitting on my couch smoking joint
while probably stipping some pipe of tubuck chuck from Trader
Joe's shaw. Yes, this is the day when you just

(01:00:01):
have to find a little coin to get through, you know.
And so I would sit there and I will watch it,
and I just got so infatuated with not like I
made this idea about who this man was that probably
really wasn't him, and then I just got into like
listen to his music and all this stuff. I was
so so so so into him that I just started

(01:00:23):
writing this song you know, with him in mine. Like
you know, it wasn't so particularly oh god, a mere
mind at least. But where was my money? I put
my money where my mouth is. I have a closet
full of twenty Africas. I knew that, I was like,

(01:00:43):
you know, I'm gonna make me some Africa's for our
T shirts. I'm my only client. I got like Africa
sports T shirts and my closet right now that is
my gym shirt. Nah. Yeah, So with t V T
I wanted to ask you particularly what was their deal

(01:01:06):
as a label. I knew them particularly from just doing
all Little John and stuff, you know what I'm saying,
But what were your dealings with them? Yeah? Yeah? TV Tunes? Yeah,
um yeah TV tunes. What was your relationship with them?
And how was How did they go with them? So
I went through UM, I don't think I evator anybody this.
So I went through a production company that was Paul

(01:01:29):
PAULI and a guy needed dubs. I don't know dubs
last Flame and Sorry Double I'm gonna tell the truth.
So I went through them, and what happened was they
signed me to t v T. I really didn't want
to go to t TV. You know what I've been
working with, UM, I've been working with all these major labels,
and I really didn't want to go to t v T.
But I did pray in that stotor to be the
best place, and I definitely think that was the best

(01:01:50):
place because I'm a natural born in the artist. So
we went over there to them and also a lot
of other places. They liked me, but they didn't want
me to write my whole album. I know, I no
one knew who I was, but I knew I had
to sit. It was the whole pointless for me to
write the album, even more than singing. I wanted to write,
you know, and so they agreed for me to do that.

(01:02:11):
And um, Brian shout out to Brian Leech, who is
the owner of Polo Grounds with a step, Rocky and
all of them. Now, um, he was a A and
R at the time, and he really really you know,
fought for me really really hard and and took care
of me while I was there. But I signed to
them direct. I just signed him direct. I went through
Ridge Good Entertainment, this production company, because that's back when

(01:02:33):
that's what people we do. You would go through a
pressure company. And Doves tried to flip my advance in
the street to break it slightly more transparent okay, but
not transparent to the points. Yeah yeah, well yeah he

(01:02:55):
tried to cop. He didn't go. He ended up going.
Yeah he wanted the pop Briggs with my money honey
inside he yes, he's tried to flip my my advance
and ended up going to jail. And then I'm just
here and Dub and Paulie was the music guy, he
was the business guy. So I'm just here and it's

(01:03:16):
just me and t VT and shout out to Brian
Leach because he took me and my partner and my
sister to Mia and he just took us under his
wing and just looked out for us because we didn't
know what was going on. We didn't even know, we
had no clue what was going on, and he kind
of just took us in and looked out for us.
And see, Godley was like nuts, But I dealt with

(01:03:37):
him really well because I didn't have Expectationcy when you
come in and you've gone through one of the one
on one of the music people, you know, and Hollywood
people myself, you know that courtesy already, So I knew
he was crazy, but but he did give me what
I needed, you know. I think I was the first.
I think Little John was kind of pissed because I
was like the first one to get like a certain
amount of money for a video. But but I need

(01:03:57):
I wanted Hike Williams. They were so happy to be
a small all able to get hy Williams that they
just gave him, you know, and it was still a
discount belief right exactly. So um t VT, I have
no qualms people have such bad things to say about
the people that put them on because it didn't go right.
You wouldn't be here without those people. So I have
nothing bad to say about t v T. Shout out

(01:04:19):
to Steve Godlip, and I love Brian Leech. She's one
of my really really good friends. Tv T was very
very good to me, and I think it was a
great place for me as well to home my skills, because,
like I told you, the first song I ever wrote
was on my first album, so I hadn't been doing
it long, so I got time to just like go
in the studio, and a lot of times I was
using their money to write songs for other people that
I'm supposed to be working on my own, you know,

(01:04:39):
So they helped me a lot. Brian Leech would just
put me in the studio any city I'm in, I
would like, I'm make suching such it would put me
in and I would just hone my skills. And you know,
the more you do anything, the better you get at it.
So t v T was a great college. And while
you're doing all this is where are your boys? How
are you handling being a mom? I lived in California
with at that time I lived in Um. We live

(01:05:01):
in an area called Altadina, and we literally live like
two streets over from each other. We all it's like
a little uh above Pasadena, a little neighborhood nestled into
the into the mountains, and we they would look out
for me. My mom was sick. She was probably she
passed by that time. Um had passed by that time,
so she couldn't help out. But my sisters would help,
and Razit's mom, she would help so much like my

(01:05:23):
first tour, she took them and stuff like that. But
for the most part, I was being able to be there,
definitely able to be there. I pray and ask God
that my kids would be certain kind of people, and
I think that that God was like, Okay, well you're
gonna have to be there. You're not gonna be able
to do a lot of things these other people are
doing because you have to be present for your kids.
And that's kind of how it hacked out. Does this

(01:05:45):
explain why there was such a long gap between albums. Oh,
I gotta have some mistake, because I would really love
to be somebody that could churn it out like that,
Like I just really have to have some like experience,
like after I did Complex Simplicity, I didn't know what
to say. I just knew how to make music really good,

(01:06:06):
didn't stan. I'm saying, how did you feel when the
album was mastered in sequence and done with? Like? Was it?
Was it a purge? Feeling like Okay, I got everything
out that I wanted to get out and what now?
Or because I think I wasn't present, so I don't know.
I can't tell you like I was just rolling. I'm

(01:06:27):
gonna stand Okay, family fall apart, mom dies, Now you
out an album, don't go on the road, blah blah blah.
I don't have time to think about you get time
to process it? And then are you making sure you're
making up for what you're doing? Because I'm thinking about
now you're going on the road singing the same sad
songs that just that you came up with. You know
that you were trying to get out of your system.
That's what I didn't get. No, I didn't get ship.

(01:06:49):
Don't think about a saturteis won't we get it out?
Saying though I know I want stand are you say?
But once we get out what we have to say,
we don't care anymore. I don't care any more. You know, like,
once we say what we have to say, and we
can say some file ship and we don't mean to
be so, but but once we get it out, it's done.

(01:07:11):
And I was like, come on, I don't make you
something to eat, Let's have a drink good, you know,
And then we just left with the ship and we're like, okay,
well wait, let me get my mind right now. You
just dropped the ship. What am I supposed to information?
But it's not like I'm not offering your drink with
that information after the information. So I'm on stage just
having a good time. Now when I'm out here just
having a good time, you know, that's when I just

(01:07:32):
turned into so much fun, traveling all around, realizing I'm
not the only crazy one, because if you out here
slicking and stuff with me, and you can be like,
y'all just as nutting as me. So I'm not the
only one. Okay, I'm trying to remember this is a

(01:07:53):
legendary location the album cover. Did you shoot that cover?
The infamous? Do you know these style houses? Is that okay?
So it's I think it's a missent entry model? Is
that missing? Trying about salt, the architectural style. No, no, no, okay,
So it's it's kind of the house that you see
in every Hollywood. What's got to do with it? It's

(01:08:18):
called now what's what was the Rickie lighting? Is that
the first place? Yeah, that's the one I saw it.
It's literally it's called no Style st a h l.
And it's uh yeah, well not the it's it's it's
just that's the location. They titled it the Style House,

(01:08:40):
and it's been used and over, you know, at least
three hundred I mean, probably more than five hundred Hollywood movies.
But it's it's very recognizable. So when I saw that
window thing, the only part of the house this nicely
unless they've upgrade, I was okay. So similar to similar

(01:09:04):
to the diner that Quentin Tarantino used in pulp fiction,
which is another kind of Hollywood staple. Like this this diner,
it's never used to serve food. It's only used for
movie houses to look like it's a diner. But I
went in there once and look horrible. I always wanted
to know like if that house was vintage or was

(01:09:26):
it classic, or when I was there there was still
a lady living there I mean, I don't know if
it was this old couple, but the old lady was
still in there, and I ended up seeing I saw
her in her bed and like she was kind of
stick or whatever. But they had like carpet and it
was kind of like only one that part, that part
of the house where the window is in that area,
that's the only part of the house that was nice.

(01:09:47):
I'm sure now they probably invested more money in it
to make it better way maybe or maybe not, because
it was it was doing what it was doing. Either way,
you know, it's supposed to look like it's nine six
or sixty five. So that's not the part I'm talking about.
I'm talking about the other part of the house where
it's okay for it to look nice nineteen sixties. But
there were technical issues like mild carpet, you know what

(01:10:08):
I mean, Like these things can be changed out. You
could put more carpet and still be nineteen six. So
how did how did your what was the most apparent
change in your life now that you made the transition
from you know, not being a singer too being well known,

(01:10:29):
uh and singing, Like what was the what were the
pros and cons of your your your new found transition
the pros as a writer. I started making a lot
of money. That was really cool. I was literally without
a place to live. I say homeless, but I was
without a place to live because I could live a family, right,

(01:10:51):
but I didn't have anywhere to live. That had to Um,
I got invited, Well I don't get invicted, but I
had to leave before I got in picked it and
being kids with just kind of like stand where we could.
And then like a three hundred thousand dollar check came.
He just then he just started coming in making months
more and more and more, and that it was that

(01:11:11):
that was all songwright and money royalties from somebody because
you have understand the body was like checking for complex
eplusity like that. That was just you know, artists and
I mean that was probably like a little sprinkling there
or somewhere, but it wasn't like the growth of it.
And um, that was really really cool. That was cool
to like go from having nothing and to see that
like your intellect, your intellectual property could garnish this. And um,

(01:11:36):
people started to come at me, you know, to kind
of signs. It felt very cool, cool to say no,
I'm okay, song place money is good money if you
can place it on the right artist. Yes. And I
also think you're not on your publishing because if somebody,
somebody gave you a check and now they've taken you know.

(01:11:56):
See that used to tell me. He's always trying to
get my pulution. He was saying, didn't you You must
not believe in yourself. You don't believe in Steve god
Is the owner, the owner of tv TV. He would say,
he would say, you don't believe in yourself. You don't
believe yourself. Why wouldn't you sell your publishing? You must
not believe yourself. And I would lively laugh like that.
I would laugh, believe in myself. That's why I'm not
selling this ship what I'm saying. So that was my

(01:12:18):
That was my biggest change. And then um, because you
have to understand, I didn't meet people. I wouldn't walk
down the street and people noticed. It wasn't anything like that,
not until I got to me like Europe or something
that's where people would notice me. But I got to
make money, which really kind of Raphael Sadik is one
of the artists that I watched and looked at a
and what he did, and it was kind of like,
I love how his theme goes, he doesn't Raphael can

(01:12:41):
walk where you can walk around be himself. So if
you don't every now and it's my Raphael. But he
doesn't get but not at that since of course. But
I mean like he he gets people that comes up
to him, but it's not like in a bothersome way.
He gets to do what he loves, live his life,
make his lemy, be a normal person, you know what
I mean. And I saw that from the gate, and
I thought that was super super cool. So I was

(01:13:03):
kind of like, not never I hate to say, but
I never really wanted any type of fame. I just
wanted to be heard because I'm not the type of
person that you can just run up in my face
with cameras and say something crazy to me or and
then I have to now conduct myself like a celebrity.
I'm not gonna conduct myself like a celebrity. I'm gonna
conduct myself like a real person with real feelings, and

(01:13:24):
I'm gonna treat you according to how you treat me,
no matter who you are, you know what I mean.
So that was something I was really grateful for it
and really I didn't want that. Nothing I even see
that happened people. I was just gonna say, that's why
it's important to share, like your story, that's why I
mean it's remarkable in that way because you are that
person and the same thing. I know Fante talks about
that all the time, but a lot of people don't
know that, Like you can be a whole, working, successful

(01:13:46):
musician and you don't have to be on every commercial,
every TV thing and be happy unless that's what you want.
That's what you want, and I think it's beautiful when
people want that and they get that. But so when
people ask me, you know what advice should have to
get to you know what you want? Any more so
than that, know who you are, like, because I think
there's some people that are like they just have that

(01:14:09):
thing of like like a Will Smith just as that
was not a singer, but just Will is Will. Like
he one minute he jumping out a plane, and then
he's doing a movie, and then he's discovering Earth and
then this nigga losing weight, like you know what I mean,
Like he just always is doing something and and there're
just some people that are just those big personalities and
then there's just some people that's just like, look, I
just want to make what I make, put it out,

(01:14:30):
and then y'all leave me the alone. Now you can't
have a second and listen. They don't ever say I'm
not so successful. I get up every day and do
what I wanna do. That's what I'm talking about. That
little I might not be in a cover of your magazine.
I might not be the song you here every time
you came on the radio, but if I wanted that,
please believe me, I would have it. I never had
intentioned at All I wanted to do was not work

(01:14:53):
some type of job I hate it, and be able
to take care of my kids. That was it. That's
why this is a surprise. I'm ahead, I'm saying, that's
why it's not surpris in to hear her response in
that way, because if you're a real fan of Teacher Moses,
then you kin kind of had a feeling that makes sense? Yes, yes, yeah,
how did so? Um? Speaking of that, how did your
situation with MMG, how did that come about? And what
was kind of the like how did that go? Well?

(01:15:16):
I lived in Miami. I moved to Miami, and I
think two thousand nine, all the two thousand nine I
moved to So by two thousand and ten, I think, uh,
Ross Heck caught wind to me. I think he found
out about me in Atlanta because Atlanta is a really
huge market for me, and so, um, he found out
for me in Atlanta. He said some Rashet girls telling
them about me or something like that. And then he
reached out to me on d M because we only

(01:15:38):
lived about ten minutes twenty days away from each other
something like that. Come over and then we all hung
out and it was cool, you know, and uh that
he had it just gotten me. Well he hadn't signed
any about yet. It got me. He got wild and
he kind of was like kind of building his thing,
and um and I would just go in and sing
on stuff and it was cool. But it just have

(01:15:59):
a panda to anything, Okay, got you. So the record
when you put out Kayak and Conversation, was that stuff
you recorded whole like during the m MG time or
was that just a completely different thing. It was during
the MMG time, but I was never signed to them,
and anything that I was doing for like I paid
for all that, like you know, I was taking care

(01:16:19):
of that, like it was just something I was doing
while I was discussing with them, you know, um uh
if we were going to do something or not. You know.
But I'm like, I'm a I'm a woman, you know,
like I'm a grown woman. So it's like kind of
different to have this, you know, I don't read this
slipped in line with everything. I'm teacher woman and the

(01:16:44):
woman though not girl woman with two kids, you know.
You know. But it panned out, and I was really
grateful because I would give him I think probably up
until like maybe two hours ago, I was seeing all
over her stuff. I'm very loyal to anybody that extends
a hand to me. I'm very very loyal if you
need anything for me, you know, I'm just I'm if

(01:17:05):
you have ever done anything to be helpful to me,
I'm always saying. And so I would sing on this
stuff or whatever, so people thought I was still connected
because I was singing all was It was the process
different than this record and that, um you worked with
one producer for the last second and multiple producers for

(01:17:25):
this record. Yes, very much so, because I did tons
of mixtapes before that album came out, right, And so
I was kind of like it was just really like
Louris Underground. That was the one for me, Thank you,
thank you. But I would do these mixtapes, and I
think because like I said the first album, I did
you have them, saying I had not only did I
have Pau Foli, I had Neo and I had Paul

(01:17:49):
Pouli and Neo and they were helping me do this
process of creating an album. Then I didn't have that anymore.
And then so now I'm just making these mixtapes and
I'm kind of learning how to make an album. Grew
exercise and making mixtapes, making all these mistakes. By the
time I get to Conyak in conversation, that's just the
moved iman this. But I kind of just gathered. I
make music constantly, always making music. I'll started to be

(01:18:11):
like the first and a hook that later for two years,
you know, and then I'll come back to it and
the verse in the comes and then I listened to
the music, and now now I'm make doing more to
the music and things like that. And that's kind of
how the process was for Conyak in conversation. I didn't
have this pain to pour out. It was more so
just like music coming out than these these feelings. What

(01:18:35):
I'm saying, was that hard for you? Because that was
that was Yeah, that was something that was tough, like
learning how to when you're used to, I guess creating
from a place of pain or trauma or like a
bad relationship. I got the whole Mary Blake, Jake bloshing
more staying I'm in better than music. It really is
really wet, you know, to the point where I'll thrust
myself into some bullshit. I was gonna have to learn.

(01:19:02):
You're not the first person I know that keeps their
ex on standby. Well no, no, I'm not saying you
said that, but I know people that I gotta get
with my ex real quick. No, I know people that
actually spend the right get their ex on standby so
they can finish this last verse or something I need.
I need some toxic tales, you know. It's really what

(01:19:24):
it is, is like you need to feel because I'm
a genuine person, So I can't. I can't just you know,
act like I feel something. I always everything I said,
everything I sit and do is coming from my heart,
you know what I mean, So like I just at
that time Koyekan conversation was more about, Okay, you're at
a place where you you know, you know, you're not
in paying anymore, you're killing whatever, and you're ready to

(01:19:45):
go out here and do your thing. You're a grown woman,
sexy fire like you do, go outre and do your thing.
But it was different and righting me because that ain't
really on that record. You work with two very good
two good friends of mine from the Bay, my man Trackademics,
and you did the so special record with my main

(01:20:07):
Brandon one one of the kind one Oak. How did
y'all link up? I was very surprised to see you
and happily surprised to see you work with them. How
did you come across the world? My god, I never
knew that's what one of Oaks stood for. I didn't
need I thought it was acces to the New York Club. Okay,
but yeah, no, I definitely had to ask him that question,

(01:20:34):
and he told me what was going on. I definitely
had asked him what about him, because I like Brandon
could have just been right. That's what I always called
him Brandon as I was shouting shouting them. The Bay
is another place that you know, a lot of support
in the Bay and I you know, I have cities
in America and outside of America that are cities that
I can always get my money from. And so the

(01:20:54):
baby was one of those cities. And U Trackademics hit
me a long time ago, was using such a fan.
This is all social social media how I met them,
you know, because he hit me and he was a
fan of complex simplicity. And I'm the type of person
that I don't just like, I don't do that. I
really always gonna look and see who this is. I
don't care if somebody was huge or you know whatever,
I go check it out and see. And I just

(01:21:15):
loved his sound to this day, like we work constant,
always work together because he has such a great song.
And to me, I'm okay with evolving into anything that
I'm supposed to evolve into. But there's a base to
what my sound is, and I don't I don't like
to Um really kind of like dismissed that base, you
know what I'm saying, Like it can be something different
and fresh and new, but it has to have that face,

(01:21:36):
and he completely has that basically call it Um Champagne.
So it's like it's really really sophisticated. You know world,
the girls don't twork, They twirl, you know, and so
it was just very easy. It was very easy for
us to connect. And Brandon kind of came along with that.
Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, I like that. The record um

(01:21:57):
that from the Luxurious Underground Joint, the so Special Missing You.
Those are my two ones from that. I love songs
for real, thank you very much. Missing You was like
a spillage from the album that was supposed to be
The Young Lions. It was just spillage from this album
that I dismantled. So okay, yeah, the Young what happened?
What happened with that record? Well, Pauli wasn't there anymore.

(01:22:19):
I think Brian with the said, don't be working with
one producer like we did before. Like I said, you know,
I hate to be Volger. People think it's Volga, but
I always say making music is for me. I can't
speak for other people, like having sets, and I'm not
a very promisterious woman because I can't connect with everybody
like that, and I don't do things just to do them,
you know what I mean. So me and Pauli we
had good zex, you know what I mean. We had

(01:22:39):
the chemistry you know, and I just didn't find somebody
else to do that with. So I would go out
and work with all these different people, but I don't
think that they were trying to recreate that that thing.
And so before we could figure that out, I was
ready to go, you know, and then t V T
kind of just want to fell apart, you know, went bankrupt.

(01:22:59):
Inter of you, you're in your material. I think the
person that I've here that you have a really good
chemistry with. And I don't know personally, you know, if
it compares to a probably or not, but you and Bink,
like yall do not fucking miss like I love the
records y'all do together. What was it like we were
really friends, you know, like Bink and I are really friends.

(01:23:23):
Like Bink will call me in vent and I don't listen. Yeah,
So I think that's the thing. I think that, Um,
I've been in the studio with some most the most
world renowned and amazing producers, and like I said, it's

(01:23:46):
like sex, It don't mean it's gonna work, you know
what I'm saying. And I think me and Benk just
have a good chemistry. I think because I really genuinely
liked him, and he genuinely liked me and we care
about each other. So it's comes out that like that,
And I wish I could just have sex with anybody
but I. And that's kind of how it is with music.
I can't. I can't. I can come in here and
I can have every good intentions to make this great,

(01:24:06):
you know, but if it doesn't click, I don't know
how to go in the motors like this isn't clicking.
Make it click. I don't know how to do that
because I feel like I'm in my sweet spot when
it when it's like rolling, when I forced it, it
gets really whack, and I don't like that part of
what I do. It makes me start to feel like
I'm like sociously like I don't do. It makes you questions,

(01:24:27):
were you and Anthony together? You and Anthony when y'all
did um that one record? We all together in the studio,
when y'all did that record, we were no, No, we weren't.
I did that by myself and then I sent it
to Okay, okay, yeah, that was another one, and that
was a track I don't want to say because you
probably know who because if you probably know, you're from

(01:24:48):
Philly you know I'm telling Okay, well some friends of
mine from Philly. Um, I know, so I'm not gonna
say some friends and fires from Philly. I only had
some much money to make the album, and they wanted
more money for the album. So I just took my
vocals and gave them to be being murdered. It turned
out way better than I thought it was gonna be

(01:25:10):
with the first check, you know. And that's kind of
how that happened with the Anthony Hampintson record, and then
all we sent it to Anthony and he got on them. Okay,
now that one. That's I love that record. Thank you
so much for really. Um was your label situation with
Shanicky when you how were they working with them compared
to tv T? How was that for you? I learned

(01:25:32):
to appreciate TVT a lot more, okay, And I learned
that you don't want to I learned. I learned that
you don't need a middleman. That's what I learned. I
learned you don't know you don't need a middle man.
In fact, your current situation, are you your own manager

(01:25:52):
right now? Or um? We have it's just we have
a team. Me and my sister partners, and that's kind
of how we roll. I guess I would be partly
my own managing because we just kind of worked together
on it. But um, I've never had like big management
or anything like that. But is that like being the
wedding planner and the bride at the same time. I
don't know. No, I don't be the bride and the

(01:26:15):
wedding planet. I really just be the bride and my sisters. Yeah,
she she she should be sitting here tell you how
crazy I am. And now you know, she takes on
a lot of hats and you know, stuff like that.
It's definitely I would love it for it to be,
you know, where I'm completely detached from it, but it's
just not possible. What do your boys think about now

(01:26:36):
that they're they're artists? They think about the way that
you have lived your career and the things that they're
gonna get taken away from it as far as you know,
to being as great indie artist that you are. Well,
they saw the right now, right right. So it makes
me feel happy that I didn't do so bad in
the downtimes to make them be like I don't want

(01:26:58):
to do, you know, So that makes me happy. And um,
they just always have always championed me, like I get
nervous to let them hear anything. Always have since they
were you know, like I just really respect their opinions
so much. And um, I think more than anything, it
is kind of they were kind of like me. They
had it in the burning in them. They didn't even
tell me forever. I didn't learn. One of day friends

(01:27:18):
told me that they wrap or whatever. You know, I
didn't even know. I think that they just this family
doesn't share their intimate humble they told me because they
told me what we thought. We thought that you wouldn't
want us to wrap, because you know Dad wraps, and
you know, you know you feel about that, you and

(01:27:39):
him and like friends now like we it's like thirty
years twenty years later, I had listened. I love him
with all my heart. He's my first love ever, you know,
first everything. You know what I mean, And so I
love him all my heart. And but we don't have
any beef nothing. We're super cool. We always like we
could be we could always be friends, because that's always
we were. My only problem who ever, has been not

(01:28:00):
being a father to children. That was all it, That
was it, you know, So now when he don't like
when I say stuff like this, but like, I can't
rewrite what happened, you know, so it's cool, Like we
can sit down and talk. We can be cool each other.
He basically laugh. I'm making that we cool. But that's
my only problem. So now that that's done, let's have
a shot. You know what I'm saying. It's all good
using opinions. But that's the one time that you did

(01:28:26):
say something to me. You were like, it's no, it's okay,
it's okay, I'm here, it's okay, it's no friends, it's
no bad. You said nothing bad. You said nothing bad.
You just asked me a question. And I was like,
that was it. I've never heard from you again. Pretty rough.

(01:29:01):
So with them, So with um, with your son's coach contract,
do you, I guess, do you play any role in
their career? Um? Like, how how do you manage that?
You know? With them, you know, doing their thing and
and you're doing your thing? How do how does that work?
Those are my children? I am their mother. All I
can do is as artists to artists off of them.

(01:29:22):
Because first of all, let's start here. I ain't gonnait
up and pretend like I know a lot about this
business because I've been in the industry a teacher, Moses.
I haven't really been in the music and the record business, right,
I'm an industry and teaching Moses. I made how many awful?
I'm very rarely open for people. I was always doing
my own shows, my own ship, you know what I mean.
So I don't really know much about that. So I'm
not gonna sit down and I feel like I know
this stuff, you know, um, But what I do tell

(01:29:44):
them is about navigation of human beings in this space,
you know. And I tell them about being good. I
think one of the reasons they didn't want to tell
me for a long time because they knew if they
were whack, I was gonna tell them. I was gonna
say this is not good. Sound like, yeah, you got
to get the same Listen. Yeah, like listen, bro, you
want to hear it from me, because if you hear

(01:30:06):
from me, you know it's coming from a place of love.
You hear from the internet. Them niggers don't give a
funk about nothing. They used to say all the time
that they want to take basketball players. Have you ever
seen her dad? Have you seen that I am right.
I told them all the time. When they have a
little girl child, I'm told us to do. I'm five
to five standing outside the trailing Queen's Bridge son listen,

(01:30:29):
and everyone says that I think the Complex cover. I
talked legs, I've talked like a giant. But I think
the Complex Simplicity because I get this all the time.
I think the Complex Simplicity album where my leg is
kind of out of something. I think people think that
that's a long leg. Now I have a I have
a long leg, but that's long leg. Definitely not. But

(01:30:58):
you say this, Fonte is so much more pleasurable to
see them doing what they're doing than it was for
me because I did it out of depth desperateness to
take care of my kids and to like get to
not be you know, I mean like they're doing it
because they just love it and they enjoy it and
they're having about every single thing I want to see them.

(01:31:19):
Um was like last week, a week before last they
open it for cor Day and they were aging these
people don't know who they are and the chant everything
and saying it's like my heart just wanted to bust
wide open because it's just very good to see your
children pursuing their purpose and getting reaction from me. You know,
it makes you feel really really good. And I also
know how long they've humbled themselves and just work hard

(01:31:41):
and kept their head down they you know, and now
they's getting reaction to it, so it makes me real.
Now they've been on it for a minute. I mean
I see them like they're going up now, like I've
seen like a lot of stuff like the l A
Leakers and all that, but i'd be telling them like, yo,
now the boy's been on it for a minute like
they've been. They've been at it, So I'm super super
happy for the brothers. That's dope, man. EPI genetics is

(01:32:01):
is a beautiful thing. Man. It's the reve hip hop
passes the jemes down to you. That's that's awesome. I
wanted to ask TJ one thing I wanted you to
break down. Um, I think it would be really helpful
for all our listeners and some who are you know,
aspiring artists, an independent artists. Um, for you as an

(01:32:24):
independent as R and B, because that's R and B
is super I tell everybody it is so much harder
doing indie R and B than doing indie hip hop
like it's they are two completely dis words. Cost a
whole lot more, way more expensive. So for you, um,
what moves the needle for you? Do you find? Is
it shows? Is it videos? Is it um? You know,

(01:32:46):
is it content? You know, just releasing ship on I
or whatever? Um? What are the things that work for
you as an indie artist that you actually see um
dividends from Well, I definitely you know quote I see
differends from the shows are definitely that was That's what
kept me for the most part. Um. But I think
it's just the owning. The publishing has always you know,

(01:33:10):
those checks going through you and um, yeah it comes
through and um and you know, merched us decent. But
it's not because I'm not trying to push that as
much as you know, because I love music, so I'm
not trying to start a clothing I have to think
and then like and have people helped me with that.
But I think, more than anything, what is the most productive,

(01:33:33):
not just money wise, the shows and touching people have
made me have like this kind of more cult kind
of following, you know what I mean. I've been seeing
the same people and these these I have like a
lockdown like tends eleven cities that I'm gonna always get
my money in. And I see these people all the time.
I know their children, you know. I mean, I know

(01:33:54):
all these people, and I think that. Um. I think
the Internet is great. I think it can get you
to a lot of people. I think ultimately, a real
connection is when you're on stage, you know, and when
you get off stage and you talk to people and
you do like I'm I was always big on before
people doing this, like these pop up shows because I
travel a lot, just because I like to travel, you know,
and so um, I would just pop up in cities

(01:34:17):
and just in a small bar and you get a
good tar player. But I love that kind of stuff,
Like I love that kind of stuff. I love real
connection with people. I think that's what it is with me.
I like your experience with me to be very into me,
so it feels like I'm your friend. I don't want
you to fan out over me, because that's weird to me.
I just want you to be my friend, you know. Yeah,
how do you use um in terms of using social media?

(01:34:41):
Because UM, I talked with a lot of artists now, UM,
which we're different because we kind of came up in
an age before it, so we know kind of what
it was before. But artists now, like social media is
just something that you have to have some kind of
presence there um, and that's not something that we really
had to have. So how do you navigate that um

(01:35:03):
in terms of using your social media? What works for you,
what doesn't? How does that work for you? Well, you know,
I started with my Space, and I'm always engaged, and
I've always engaged people, and I've always been transparent. I've
always been very transparent on social media to like I said,
to make people feel like I'm not someone up here.

(01:35:25):
I'm your home girl next door. So when I say,
you know whatever, I'm seeing what I've been through in
blah blah blah. Or if I'm on a video telling
you to set a third, You're not listening to me
like somebody talking down to you. You listen to me
like someone talking across you, like a friend. But that's
kind of how I approach social media. It's new now
because it's like called content, but I just always been
doing this. I've just always been being myself on social media. Um,

(01:35:49):
I have to step it up now because it's like
and I need a job. I used to love it.
But the thing is, I used to love it. I
used to really freaking that you had to do engaging
and people until it became a thing like now it's
like you know this and the third, but I actually
do like it. So I'm triggering my head back into
like liking it. A lot of the things that are
going on now, you should do them before, not because

(01:36:11):
I thought it was a thing, because I just wanted
to do it. Do you understand what I'm saying? So
I just could I continue, like I always say, you know,
continue what you're doing and go harder to anybody, just
continue with you doing, go harder. And that's how I
posed social social media. Just now I'm fixing my mind
being that I'm moving into new music too. Continue what
I'm doing, but be more concise and like strategized about

(01:36:33):
how you know, strategizing, how how will you do it?
I love to watch you stand in your power on Instagram.
I was just thinking about that. I was telling the
guys that I was like, I love that you stand
in the power who you are, not just inside but
also outside, you know what I mean? And I'm a
pretty girl. Yeah, I mean, you're gorgeous, That's what I mean.
You're gorgeous and you're surprisingly sick. So I was like,
I love, Yeah, we shouted you out on I must

(01:36:56):
shout out there a little brother shouting y'all on not yes,
that changed my situation back, are you serious? What? People?
I never knew that, like the little brother did say,
you know. And here's the thing. I joked a lot,
like I think I'm cute, I think I'm pretty, but
it's far more beautiful women whatever a little block. But
that's just the satittoric thing. We pick ourselves. So we
don't wait for people to cheerly for us. We just

(01:37:18):
cheerly used up. Like I keep my palm palms ready
in case I need to pick me up. And that's
just kind of how I asked. So this experiencing me
being myself, you know, and I think it just tarms
across from me. It doesn't come across with yeah, yeah
palm had a different place, but still we know you

(01:37:38):
use palm palmers. You listen, I got palm palms. They
just locked down right now. Girl. I seen him on
the Yeah, we've seen them on that. I guess your
your new record. So special. I mean that's make me
um with Brodie Brown. Uncle, you're not that rap? Is that? Now?

(01:38:00):
That record is is fucking great? I love it? How
is that setting up a new record? Like? Where are you?
What you're working on? Now? What were you at? Yes? Um,
I'm working on I'm called the Bullshit. Um. It's based
on what I went through after my kids were grown up, right,
And I didn't I didn't date. Um. I tried a
little bit, but then I realized, you got a lot
on your plate, right, and I'm a person that when

(01:38:22):
I love, I get all involved, right, So I didn't
have I couldn't just have a man in my life
that might deter me from my responsibilities, which we're taking
care of my kids and making music and you know
all that stuff. So I didn't really date. So by
the time that twins left and moved to l A
to start pursuing what they want to do with music, UM,
I just went out in the world. Was like, okay,
I would have man and you know, get my life

(01:38:42):
and all this stuff and all this trash. It was trash,
trash and California, you know, I was. I was going out,
but I traveled, so it's not just in California, I
mean New Orleans, in l A. I'm in Miami, you know,
I mean I'm in all these places, right. And it
wasn't that I'm not saying that everybody trash. It just
was trash for me because I need genuine connection, you know.

(01:39:03):
So I decided I met this guy was really good, cute,
and I was just like, okay, company one, and I
pulled him in whatever, you know, because I'm a business woman.
That's how we handle everything else. Single bomb in a
business woman is the worst because we think we could
make anything happen, right, And so I pulled this guy
into my life, and I pulled the biggest bullshit into
my life that I have ever experienced. I almost went

(01:39:24):
gay dealing with you understand me, okay, and the end
of you just started. I don't know, he wore me out,
you know what I'm saying. So it's just like, I
just to dude, that was on your I G because
I would see something that you would post. Would you
post him? Sometimes? Okay? It wasn't. No, no, no, no, no,

(01:39:44):
I'm not. I would never he could be my husband,
we could. I would never. You'll never see some man, Okay, okay,
start thing for women that aren't know but um yeah,
it's just he just I liked him so much and
I just felt I just felt like it because I'm
into you, you should just really be good. I just
sat Kanada. It was just I put myself in that
situation and I wanted to blame him, but I couldn't.

(01:40:06):
So there's a period of time during that It's like
four years that I wrote all these songs, and it
was like what was coming out of me at that time,
genuinely coming out and not me trying to conjrate up.
Like you know, I have a record on their way
Umata and the Ram Bernard simply call Fighting Farewell because
I'm just I know I need to go. I knew
this is done girl. What are you're doing? And I'm fighting?

(01:40:28):
I'm fighting. So this is what this album is about.
It's about, you know, trying to go out here and
date and the bullshit I encounter him, the emotions I encounter,
but also the making album. We have a remix with
um Currency and Eric bellingerder and being Yeah and we
have to talk about the ka to be your girl,
like like we have to like and and the record

(01:40:49):
you did for him the Culture Joint on his album actually,
and that was co written with my sons. He was, yeah,
it was yeah, the the remix bringing that song back
some twelve years after, not even twelve, it was. It
was a wild though. It was like twelve, two thousand

(01:41:11):
twelve and I had records leads in two thousand four.
Was a long time. Yeah, but I felt really good
and I love him, and I just thought it was
super cool because we got to we did that and
now we got made him. You know, I can't talk
about that. I was now. I was so happy. I
would say, however it happened without but I was so

(01:41:33):
happy to see that being available on officially on streaming service.
However it is done, I don't know. But we got together,
we get it. So yeah, but I was really appreciative.
And I just feel like, um, to be honest with
your quest. That made me feel good as a song,
right you know, I feel be your Girl makes me

(01:41:54):
feel really good as a song right right, Because even
if it's the original or the remix or one of
the other tentrillion remixes that people have done, the fact
that I did something that long ago genuinely from my
heart and people still like it today. It makes me
feel really good. I love Maids for that reason. So
the fact that I have a song that can come
on way later and people still get into it, it

(01:42:17):
just makes me feel really good as markets More than
the financial game of it, I feel really really good
as an artist. That is, it's the same. I love
it well, you know I I almost feel compelled to
do our traditional ending and which we all say what
we learned today? I will say I still come correct

(01:42:43):
with teacher Moses. You've done become part of a narrative.
She dont write it. She's gonna write a jam about
your head. All right? What else do we learn today?
I learned I did not know. I swear I did
not know that a shouting out on the Gangster girls
that that you know, that that change that I had
no idea. Yeah, we were just I mean, we were

(01:43:05):
just showing you love like I was. You know, now,
we were just showing love. I mean, I've been bumping
complex simplicity and so you know, we mean boos just
talking ship that night in the studio we started to
keep it. So now I've been a fan forever, and
you know, just I see the people you work with.
You work with like a lot of you know, homies
I know and people I really respect, and um, I
just really appreciate the way you moved in this game.

(01:43:27):
And it's just you're always someone that I've always looked at,
you know you, um My brother Eric Robinson, you know
what I'm saying, just on the R and B level
where it's just like yo, it is people out here
that's eating like that are eating good and making good
and raising families kindred absolutely kindred, the family soul and
so um, I just you know, thank you and commend
you for just you know, being just that person and

(01:43:49):
that artist and just having that integrity and you know,
always putting your best foot forward in the music you
put out. It really means a lot. You know what
else learned somebody else? Yet you can build so much.
I'll say it is your show. Oh I learned two things.
One Fonte and Teacher should have their own podcasts and

(01:44:15):
conversation conversations and too, I've never been so proud to
be Sagittarius my whole life. This is like a sagittariation,
serious appreciation our I didn't know about Vega Sagittarius, but
I know a whole lot. Now when I didn't learn alright, I, oh,

(01:44:39):
well I just do go quick. I have just learned
that what I already knew that teachers my whole tribesman.
Every everything that she does I kind of do outside
of singing and songwriting. And also I've been learned that
teacher Moses is an amazing softball player. I just want
to throw that out on top of e anything else?
Did she do? This? Bitch can kill on a field?
Wh and I had to that day. I probably have

(01:45:02):
to pay do what I gotta do. Know you you
sto you stole basses and everything. Yeah, we play run
fast team together. Yes, yes, yes you do not know this.
I used to play on the Boys and Girls Cup
on the softballs. Yes, my name is what the sports are?

(01:45:22):
I know what the sports are? All right, Steve? Would
you learn? I learned that she's cool and I like
her and she's a great interview. UM, thank you for
doing this for us today. Also in defense of asshole boyfriends. UM, sorry,
but we do we do help you come up with
good materials. I'm ready. When does it covering? We have

(01:45:48):
a date for it yet not yet? Yeah, Okay, it's
coming this year. Okay, you know our listeners won't be
able to see this, but okay, so she's start to
mention it, and I was like, all right. Instead of
me looking at my my psychedelic kaleidoscope imagery, I started
putting uh um on my television. Belly. I gotta tell you,

(01:46:18):
Belly with the volume down is actually it's great. It
looks amazing. Yeah, it's a beautiful. I'd never really noticed
the cinematize video video. Ain't no script beutiful? Beutiful? The
lights with the volume down? Where is Hicks probably be

(01:46:42):
very beautiful? Sisters? No, no, no, I just remember that
her sister was on a reality show on the Gospel play.
It's a whole another thing with Jenny Wine. You know,
we don't matter, but yeah, I know. Anyway, for real teacher,
this is long overdue. We thank you very much for
doing show. Thank you guys much. I had a great time.
I also want to stay you before I go. Congratulations

(01:47:04):
on your great documentaries. Really really amazing, and I really
appreciate that. I look, I appreciate all that it's getting
too because it's so cool. Hopefully by the time this
makes it to error, I was winning yes, manifested, Yes,
absolutely alright, so on behalf of the Great Teacher Moses

(01:47:25):
and I'm paid. Bill and Shukstine take a little and
like e. This is another classic What's Love extravaganza. We
will see you on the next door. Thank you very much.
What's Love Supreme is a production my Heart Radio. For

(01:47:49):
more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Teedra Moses