The Family Stand (Part 1)

Best known for their early 90’s international hit single “Ghetto Heaven,” the trio of Sandra St. Victor, Peter Lord and V. Jeffrey Smith tell their story of coming up as musicians and songwriters in the 80s and more!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of course, Love Supreme. It's a production of My Heart Radio.

(00:06):
So ladies and gentlemen, sometimes you just have to go
with the flow. Steve's looking mad nervous right now because
we're not following the rules of the show from an
engineer standpoint. But I don't know. I just felt the need.
We don't have to do world call every time. I

(00:26):
will say yes first Stars if you're if you're tuning
in late, this is a quest Love Supreme on I
Heart Radio. And uh, we're still here with three Supremas
because I have him locked in change. See what I
did there, guys, locked and change. Yes, yes, Boss Bill,
Lion Sugar Steven with us. Apparently unpaid. Bill met a

(00:49):
woman named Lady Sunshine, and uh, he left us a
dear John note that said he ain't never coming back.
Fantakolo apparently still smoking very strong cigarettes, and he said
he'd be back for visitation Sundays in a month. So
what I will say is that when time has passed

(01:12):
and the smoke is cleared, I really hope that the
storytellers and the history makers and the history tellers will
be kind to our next guest, whether as a collective
or as individuals as an artist, producers, songwriters, or just
playing old session musicians or just three really talented musicians.

(01:36):
Our guest today have made impact in history, and they
marched to the beat of their own drum, their own
weird drum, whether we know it or not. And I'll
be honest, I think Bill can agree with me, Boss,
Bill can agree that the gyms of the Discovery for
this episode alone, um, and we graciously thank them for

(02:00):
doing us the honor of celebrating with them thirty years
of truth, weirdness, cleverly hitting snark, a little van of white.
How you doing zero compromises as far as I know,
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome they want and only Peter
Lord V, Jeffrey Smith and soundsra St Victor a special

(02:22):
treat for all you music experts and nerds and connoisseurs
out there, professionally known as the Family Stand. Yeah. Now
every intro has to be like that, right right, I
think as I think the new standard has been. And
I really had a good roll call. But you know
they had two of them. One of them was still

(02:44):
still one of them. Now, see I wasn't even going
to do that obvious one. I have to say that, uh,
this is this is one that I didn't see coming.
Really why I didn't see coming? I just now I
see it coming. I appreciate it. You know, just when
when your name appeared on the wish list of family
stand I want to do, quest were like, thank you?

(03:07):
What are you talking about? I'm happy, Boss, Bill is happy,
everyone's happy. I'm not worried about UM. So has this
always been this way with you? Guys like you? Just
pretty much? Yeah, no doubt I break out. Is that
the bond that kept you together? The music? The music

(03:28):
has always been the thing. I mean, we were. We
can hang out and have good fun and you know
we we we are compatible outside of music. But the
thing that always brings us back is that music. Because
we are like I call them my musical soulmates, and
I mean that sincerely. They literally are. I mean, I've
never been connected to bonded with anyone one the way

(03:49):
I am with Peter and Jeff, and I call them
my powers, talents of Palace, the talents. When I'm between them,
I'm the safest that I am in the world. Okay, Well,
here this is a tradition on question of supreme because
um Any guests that comes on the show always want
to find out what brought them to where they are. Now,

(04:12):
you know the first question I always have. Well, there's
three of you now, so this is gonna be an
extra long episode. That might be, this might tie Jimmy
Jam's record. Can I take my shoes on? Six hours?
That's why I'm radio? Thank you, thank you, sweetheart. So

(04:33):
what I'll do is, uh, I'll go from my my
right to left. Uh. My first question for you, Pete
is uh for first, where where were you born? I
was born in Brooklyn, New York. I'm from Brooklyn. Okay,
same hospital as Michael Jordan's Atlantic have you? Okay, wait,

(04:55):
wait what hospital is there? What do you say? Hospital?
Is that? I think it was St. Joseph's or something
like that of Atlantic. Yeah, okay, and soundry Where were you? Yeah?
I know you were? Yeah? Yeah? All right. So you're
the Big D and then the George Budd Okay, Buddy,
that's another thing. Okay, So the Big DR. This is

(05:22):
x M Radio or Triple x U V Jeoffrey Um.
I was born in Hollom Hallom Hospital. Really you're the
old one, Okay. I'm a man of a certain age,
So the old one as opposed to yeah, the one
that's here was one on thirty one five and Lennox. No,

(05:45):
it's not at Lantox. I think it's a little further over. Okay, yeah,
it's the old one. I said, I'm a man of
a certain age. So I don't think people even know
about that that one hallm Hospital. Frederick Douglas was born
there right the same time. Here we go. So then,

(06:11):
so then I'll ask Sandra Sander, what year did you
come to New York City? Okay, yeah, visiting a few times?
Are you you've officially just just rolled up and it
was a crazy roll up, but yeah, I rolled up
in nineteen. Really it was crazy, kind of the opening

(06:32):
to a song that wasn't written yet, Welcome to the Jungle,
like you got off the bus was freaking nuts. You know.
It was a Royer's roll up, so he's had a
set up and it was there's a whole thing there.
But yes, I got it. Okay, Okay, now no, no,
I'm gonna get that. So I'm just my My first
four questions are always just the basic foundations of who

(06:53):
you are as individuals. Before we're getting the collective. All right,
So what is Peter, what is your first musical memory,
very first musical memory. This is gonna give away age,
but this was already you were already here. I'm mature,
that's right. Um. The first song I remember hearing was
hit the Road Jack. Okay, what you say? And that's

(07:23):
my first musical memory, hit the Road Jack. And then
I remember being my sister having a party at a
round I think it was nineteen sixty eight or nine,
and she played that Slide album and my life was
never the same after that. So I didn't realize it yet.
And but the really reason I got into music industry

(07:46):
was was because of um of Satan. And that was
because and I'll tell you why. I know a lot
of us, you know, um people a certain he would
like to say that God Jesus got into music, But
Satan got me in the music because the movie The Exorcist.
And I'll tell you why. Because the movie came out
and I was so afraid to go to sleep. I

(08:07):
started playing the radio every night and that, alright, yo,
we went tangential alright. So so I was so that
every shadow was like you know, Linda Blair, I turned
their head around. So I started playing the radio every
eight waiting the when I got this new song, I'm

(08:29):
so tired of being alone. I thought about that all myself.
I was outgreen. Oh but you know, but I kept
hearing Stevie and and those people are doing the radio
during I'm like, oh, I think I like music cause
I'm hearing songs in my head. Wait, i gotta say something.
I don't think I've ever shared this story before, but uh, now,
now that makes sense because when you think of the
Boogeyman or whatever, the first thing you want to do

(08:50):
is distract yourself from whatever you think is under the
bed or in the closet. So you put music onto
be an invisible roommate. Frank Zappa had had um did
a film, a short film with Bill Plimpton, uh, nineteen
seventy three whatever, and came on Midnight Special. But this thing,
like he turned into a demon. I mean, if you

(09:12):
know Frank Zappa's music, it's like, yeah, like four fingers
turned into fingers. And I had nightmares of Frank Zappa forever,
and so thus my mom I totally forgot that's how
music really. I had her because I was scared of
Frank Zappa getting me. Yeah, that was so, Sandra, What

(09:38):
what was your first musical memory, in addition to the
first music that you purchased or owned and the moment
that changed your life and brought you to music. Okay, well,
so the first and the last question I probably about
the same. And that's the first musical memory. My parents
and my aunts tell me about stuff that I did
when I was to, like playing the piano, and they

(09:59):
said I was fiddling around playing skate and I figured
out that the scale was Joy to the World. So
they said, but dude, I was They said I was too.
I'm okay, I don't remember this, but they till we
said you were too, and you said, and I said,
George to the world, de Lloyd, let's come. So when
it was George to the World, I don't recall that.

(10:20):
But my first musical memory is uh. I was I
had chores and I had to clean dust the these
these coffin looking dazzled lamps and in the living room,
and uh, as I was consoling myself while I was cleaning,
I started singing. And as I was singing, I said,

(10:45):
I'm a singer. I was like eight, I said, I am.
I didn't say I don't want to. I didn't say
I want to say. I said I am a singer,
and it's new from it and it's never changed from
that moment, never anything else. Um and uh so yeah,
that was the first that's like the real solid memory.
And that also is the last question when that's the
thing that changed my life as far as it was

(11:08):
no question at that point who I was in my
own you know, in my own you know, skin, I
knew from that point I forgot your second question though.
The first record you purchased, Okay, so yeah, uh, the
first thing I probably purchased was Songs in the Key
of Life or Larry Graham's Mirror. That's the first thing

(11:29):
I probably purchase, Yeah, because I was young, but I
had a little allowance, and and that was about that time,
and those are the first albums I had, Songs a
Key of Life and Mirror. Jeff, what was your first
musical memory? Around my house? There was a lot of

(11:51):
music because my mother she sang, and she used to
have like these parties. Well, I don't want I don't
know exactly what to call him now because uh, you know,
was there a knife. There was a lot of stuff
going on. There was a lot of stuff going on,
and my sister was under a chair and watching them
play music all night. But at the same time, the

(12:13):
music that we would listen to was things like Brook
Banton and the first thing that the song that I
remember is Book of t and the mg S. What's
the song that but Green Onions? Right until this day,
I say Stevie probably caught that with Um Ground, because

(12:33):
when I first heard Higher Ground, I said, Stevie, Stevie
jack that song, you know, I mean he added his
little twist, But that's probably the first memories. Uh. Also
um I was made to love her? That was but
the But the music that really changed my life was

(12:56):
music in my mind. Really, There's another observation I'm making
right now that's rare for our guests. It sounds like
that at a very early age, music isn't uh an
obstacle in your households. Usually with our guest on the show,

(13:20):
there's like Charlie Wilson like people have to sneak to
listen to records, like the only secular record they're allowed
to listen to is What's going on? That sort of thing.
So you're saying, even at an early age and discovering music,
your parents were more than Okay, well, what type of
parents did you guys have that were so open to

(13:40):
as a candle worms? Well, can you hear me? Well,
my mother was a nurse and my father was a communist,
so that creates an artist. So he was always he
was open. He was over minded to begin with, a
little bit too open minded. But um so, and my
oldest sister was into music, and my father saying, so

(14:02):
we weren't. We weren't. And I was baptized Catholic, so
we weren't like a religious Baptist. You know, music is
evil type of fami, you know, So you had our alternative, Uh,
semi attorney's different from what black people at the time.
Absolutely because my father, my father was actually uh he

(14:23):
went to uh, he graduated from Harvard. He uh he
was a lawyer. He was a columnist of major paper
and professor. But he was seriously a communist and got
caught up in the nineteen fifties scandal. So his whole
career of being a teacher in Jersey City. Um So,
my parents got divorced around nineteen sixty three, just when
the violence come in. And we'll explain, explained to me

(14:47):
the repercussions of that if you if the the government
was trying to vent out who was a communist basics.
So so even though he had and he was like
he had a Harvard layd degree and was a doctor
philosophy and wrote books about history, the fact that he
was a kind he got out of it was and
he was starting to school in Albany and was forced
to leave there. And your dad Paul Robinson. No, he

(15:09):
hugged with Paul Robinson. There's a picture of him, and
there's a picture of him and Paul Robinson and Joe
Lewis and this big you know party, uh back in
the like late forties. He had me like late in
his later in his life, I remember just believes that
he was just anti capitalist or um he was. He was.
He was an atheist in fact that my mother wasn't
even she wasn't religious, but she went just and my grandmother,

(15:31):
um Jamaican and very religious, wanted to make sure I
didn't How did that work? I would about to say, yeah, yeah,
crazy crazy, So somebody Gemini Leo, yeah he's a Gemini
because yeah. So so they were open minded in terms

(15:53):
of terms of in terms of that in terms of music.
So they you know, they loved music, and she actually
wanted me to I think she wanted me to get usic.
But my sister was actually went to music and art
and I didn't go. I went to a Rasmus High
School in Brooklyn and oh, actually no, I didn't. I
was went to Well Women Junior High School in Brooklyn.
And to make sure I have to fight to see people,
I did and well whipping. When I went to a Rasmus,
I make sure I passed that test to go to

(16:15):
stuves In High School. So that's what I ended up.
Isn't that as well? Sounds familiar? That's crazy? Yeah, So yeah,
so I ended up going, but I wasn't music. But
music wasn't such a There wasn't a block to music
in my house and that so that was fortunate. So
was there a uh? Most the sort of hip hop

(16:35):
narrative is basically with gang activity in New York in
the seventies and sort of waiting out in the eighties.
But was that an everyday thing in your your teenhood?
I heard a lot in the West Coast, but you
rarely hear what the what the thing? Is uh this day.
I was a different type of kid. So so yeah,

(16:57):
so yeah, you know how you survived navigated. Actually, I
kind of ignored a lot of stuff. Uh and not
a conscious thing. I mean I just wasn't into it,
you know what I mean. So I was I just
wasn't definitely into gangs of fighting and all that stuff.
In the father of my do you avoid it because
normally they choose you. I guess they thought I was

(17:19):
so weird they didn't know what to do with me.
And I just didn't you know, uh you know, yeah,
I mean I was just I was just just so
kind of out, you know, and that I had like
a weird kind of childhood like in Brooklyn, and and
so there was a lot of fights and stuff, and
but I was as opposed to getting into the fights.
I was. I was kind of stupid, kidding the way

(17:40):
because I was scared of people. I should have been
scared because they had a bunch of brothers and I
had no brothers. But when that when they I found
out later it was the biggest bully in the neighborhood
took my recent play this game people don't play anymore
called punch Ball. It's kind of like baseball and punchball.
So so this guy, this guy took my ball and
I said, give me my boy said no, and I

(18:01):
punched him in the face. And then everybody said, do
you know he just punched I punched in the face.
But but but then it was but then it was like,
do you know he just hit him? And then I
have to realize that who I hit? Then I was scared.
But then the guy became friends with me and looked
out for me. But he looked out for me for

(18:23):
for a bunch of the other kids were really tougher
than even worse. He was. So, well, I'm glad you
have that, because I I can't imagine a childhood growing
up where you don't have that one person that's like,
I'm gonna get being the funk you up. I mean, yeah,
I've never had that. So I just read with the quickness.
So Sandra in Dallas, Yeah, okay, is what was Dallas

(18:51):
at the time in your childhood? Because I think of
Austin as a blue city in a red state, or
at least they would like to paint that is sure,
we don't even know now, but Texas trying to go blue, right,
But but I will say that the times that I've

(19:13):
went there, at least with my gracious host l Head Rappo,
Oh my god, l Head Rappo. Um, she showed me
signs of Dallas that I didn't even know existing. I've
been there plenty of times, and I was like, oh,

(19:34):
there people like me down here. What was it like
for you growing down there? It was? It was it
was like the two sides of the tracks, you know. Uh.
And my dad who came from like him and his brothers,
him and his brothers. I mean the first gun I
saw was my dad's. Okay, my dad. It was like

(19:55):
a pimp back in the day, right, And you know,
I stumped stumbled on those pictures. But so Dallas when
I was gonna, was very divided. So he had he
had decided at some point that he was gonna, you know,
leave the gang life behind a little bit, you know,
at least at least on the front. I want. You can't.

(20:17):
You can't, you can't trust because we're telling my dad
didn't really leave that ship behind. So what I'm telling you,
what I'm telling you, So he kind of like, you know,
so he got great job, you know, moved up first
black supervisor at the phone company all kind of crap.
But but my like my mother's family lived on the
other side of the tracks. So when we had to

(20:37):
go visit them, we us, oh, snap, this is the
real real, right, So they lived in West Dallison, South Dallison,
you know, and little trailers and like twelve people in
one house. And you know, we went to visually visit
our country cousins. They didn't have shoes, so like, you know,
we was like, oh damn, we're middle class. I mean
I didn't know the term for it then, but I
little now look back on it. You know, I grew

(21:00):
middle class. Well you know, I would say lord to
a middle middle class in upper middle middle class line.
But so but dad um dad, Dad's dad's dad's like,
you know, sort of gangster side never left. I mean,

(21:20):
for example, when I remember I was with this dude,
Oh no, here we go it signed and let me
just tell us cute. Well, I mean, so we and uh,
you know, he wasn't treating me right and he actually
like he actually slapped the ship out of me one

(21:42):
day and I like and I was so stunned. So
I got on a flight. Now I was in New York.
So I got on a flight. I just went back
calling my dad always picked u with the airport, and
he picked me up with airport and I was just
quiet and he was like, what's wrong with you? I'm
like nothing, and he was quiet. It was forty minute
ride almost home. He said, did he lay his hands
on you? He just guessed it and I was like

(22:04):
what son? So so we got home. He was I
never saw him get that read. He was like lights
game job. He was like, he got home, he picked
up the phone. He called dude, he just say ship
to me. He just he just picked up the phone.

(22:24):
He brought my suitcases and picked up he said, he said,
could do his name Clark. He said, Clark, this is
Mr Matthews. If you ever lay your hands on my
daughter again, New York won't be big enough. I was like,

(22:54):
I just want to know we ever heard from Clark again?
Actually a fright that would be enough to do, you know,
I mean like is he alive? Could not answer that question, honestly,
I do that now. I did not even part anymore.
He shut him down. So I mean he's done that

(23:15):
kind of that kind of thing he does. I mean,
you know, he got cute when he got older, when
he would just meet ladies, all my girlfriends who I introduced,
he would start with and tell them I'm not a
dirty old man. I'm just a sexist senior citizen. Even
now out that was my dad and his brother. Did

(23:39):
you learn how to handle the pistol? Oh? I did,
actually from Texas, But I don't want to is that
I don't want to make any assumptions about Texas whatsoever.
But can I assume that that's is symbols breathing air
or water? At least we're taught. Yeah, I would say, uh,

(24:01):
I would say, I'm not gonna say everybody, you know
what I mean because everybody most people don't know how
to dome, but I knew how to shoot or the
parents definitely had guns. So you you you come across it,
you know what I mean. So I came across the
gun in my house. My dad used to keep it
on top of the refrigerator. I'm like, why is it
on top of the refrigerator? The gun was when he

(24:24):
saw me, like find it and he was like, okay,
well if you don'na do the guy you donna you know,
let me show you how. So were you the only sibling,
you know, I had three we're all adopted, by the way,
three siblings. Yeah, you were chosen. Three kids almost shot
my sister. Let me tell you what happened. Were kids, right,
and me and my sister were in my my my

(24:47):
stepdad's I mean, I wasn't like familiar with my biological
so my mother remarried, right, Me and my sister was
playing in her in their room, and uh so we
was reaching a you know, trying to look for things,
and we see this gun and I think it's a
toy gun. So I pointed at my sister and kicked

(25:10):
and then I pointed at the ceiling and it went off.
They came in and they said I didn't know what
was happening. They said they was wondering if something had
happened upstairs. I was wondering why they were They were tripping,
So I didn't know it was a real gun, you know.
I was like, that's one of my earliest memories because
I don't remember much before I was nine. Well that's question,

(25:37):
Steven Silver. Now, yeah, nobody carrying, right, you know what
the you gotta ask? Now, that's that's that's scary. I mean,
I remember that's like kind of a weird kind of thing.
It's a blessing like you blessed. Likely when it went differently, well,

(25:57):
I don't you know, I don't believe in love or
anything like that, but that was, yeah, I mean, somebody
looking out. Somebody's looking out bringing you guys to New York. Now,

(26:18):
what year did you guys meet? Not even as Okay,
you're talking about all of us. Okay, let me take
let me, let me take this. Peter and I met
through a mutual friend, Will Downing. Me and Will Downing
we used to do a lot of work together. We
were writing sessions all that stuff. And you know, Will

(26:42):
used to come over my house and you know, we
used to write and so he one day he told
me that he knew that this guy needed a flute
player on a song that he was writing. Right, And
I never forget the song was in the thick of it, right,
that's the name of it. I never forgot the name
of that song. So he let me hear the song.
I said, man, I gotta I gotta meet this guy.

(27:04):
So he said, I'll bring him over. So Pete came
over my house. You know, I said, that's Pete he's weird.
He looked like, yeah, it's like Larry Downey six five.
And I'm like, So we started working together and uh,

(27:25):
at the time, you were you had a group. You
were with Renee and Angela and Angela right, I can't
wait for the stories. We're not even going to get
to the family stand yet her collective experience. Oh, she's
shaking her head. No, already, every story. Yeah, I'm ready for.
I'm ready for. So it was it was Renee and Angela, right,

(27:49):
they were producing the view. So somehow I convinced p said,
Pete Man, you know, we could do this ourselves because
I was always into, you know, having being in control
of our all music. So, you know, we started working
together doing a lot of productions and stuff, and so
we had a bunch of singers coming and doing demos
for us, because at the time we were doing stuff

(28:11):
for Silver your own Mickey Howard. You know we did
Mickey Howard Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mac Band, we did. We
did productions on them, and we had different singers singing
our demos. So, um, Lisa Fisher was one of the
one of our singers. Now I knew Lisa from I

(28:33):
met Lisa eighty three on a session that I was
doing for Billy Ocean, right, so she was in the studio,
she was in the uh, so you know, I met
Lisa then. So we kind of stabblished a relationship over

(28:55):
the years and then she she did some demos for
us too. And so did we get up offered the
deal or we just started first? First thing we met
before you guys got the offer for the producer's deal
because Lisa, Lisa had to go do Luther, she had
to go, right, and so then she she pulled me

(29:15):
in because I met Lisa when she was doing the
Crystals and I still lived in Texas and I was
doing Layfair and so we hooked up before I moved
to New York and the cry Dog Crystals. She was
she was in the Crystals. Yeah, yeah, she was doing
the Crystals back in the day, traveling as not as
the original No, no, that's my era, like yeah, I

(29:38):
don't no doubt. So it was like one original Crystal
and the other two and Lisa was one or the
other two. Shoot. I did shows with Lisa Fisher and
I never knew it when you were a kid with
your dad, my dad was so so anyway, we were
using Lisa and a bunch of other singers. And we

(30:00):
told Lisa that, um, we needed a singer and she said,
what my girls, Asandra lives in Dallas and I could
hook you up with the man. At the time, we
were producing this group called the mac Dad who I
think baby Face. They produced a red right, So we
were producing some songs on that record. So we had
to go to Dallas to produce Snap and that's where

(30:21):
we hooked up with Sandra. At Luther Van and Luther
Vandos show. I'll Never Forget. Lisa invited us to LUs Evans.
What year this eight eighties? Like eighty six six because
I met Pete and eighty five was there er conditioning
on in the stadium When YO said I'll Never forgive?

(30:50):
He was shady. I was minding my own business. She
you know. She she we said hello, and maybe because
she was used to men melting over her as rightfully so,
but she just said low and I said how are
you doing? And she thought I was being cold? But
I think I just had some indiggestion that day, just
like me like that story, and I think my stung
was hurt, Like who's you think he is? I'm sorry that. Yeah,

(31:15):
it's good to see. I'm six five. She's giving you exactly.
Come on. He looked down his nose at me. Jeff
was like, hey, how you doing exactly, so now he
could like look at me, but not look. I was

(31:35):
looking at the rest of your baby. You're going on.
It was the eighties. Okay, this is the thing. I'm
really excited that you guys are on the show simply
because the one story that I've not story, but just

(31:56):
the one narrative that I never ever got to wrap
my head an round, was what was the environment like
for I guess the black musicians in trying to navigate
through the mid eighties, like the Marcus Miller's, the Bernard Rights,

(32:16):
the Tatha gs, Like, what what is the stratosphere of
you guys? We see you know all those people you mentioned,
So basically all those people came out of the session scene,
right right, So, so the session scene was thick. It's
not anymore, right, but back then us you had your
West coast session folks, and you had your East coast

(32:37):
session folks, and all the people you mentioned. Maybe Marcus
was more west, but go back. Yeah, but so so so,
I mean those people are mostly East Coast people, and
they came out of sessions and record labels we're looking
to like, you know, put push people to the front,
like M two A and Twatha out of into M

(32:59):
two may uh from from these from that session scene.
So that's why you got the McK murphy's and you know,
the Bernard Rights and those folks that came from that scene.
And also Pete and Jeff you know what I mean,
they they will offered this producer's deal out of this
because they were doing all these sessions. And but was
there a collective where, like I mean, I'm talking even deeper,

(33:20):
like with Shocker's brother, like Mark Stevens and the like,
all these monsters and all those they they we used
to hook each other up. Man, Definitely, there was a
real camaraderie with folks. I mean, like Lisa and Brenda
White King put me on, you know, because Lisa knew
me before I moved, before I moved here, and she
usually Brenda and they all sort of took me under

(33:41):
their wing and they put you into the situations you
need to be put into. So what was your apprentice situation?
Like if you say that Lisa was a Luther disciple,
who was your apprentice situation? That would probably be Royer's then,
because you know that was how I first got up
there up here? Where am I now? New York? Yeah?
So yeah, so it was Roy tell us, Yeah, I

(34:05):
got Roy. Sorry, but you said something like when you
came to New York and you were with Roy, like
that's when you knew things were different, Like the way
you entered New York was different. Just wild as here. Okay, okay,
we could do ok good, Okay, Yeah, it was definitely
a uh put your clothes close, we have to keep closing, darn.

(34:30):
I was trying to let the girls free moments or
to me moments to songs come up right here. Okay,
so but we'll get to that too. So so Roy

(34:51):
so Roy? Uh he I met him and when I
was in playing with the group with Zachary Brow I
don't know if you know who he is, and we
had use his equipment, so we got he came to
our show and stuff, and um, after the show, he
was like, when you come to New York, you're gonna
be in my band. I was like, dirty old man,
you know, that's kind of what I said. Okay, that's

(35:13):
kind of what I know. I was like, I was
like the girl, I was yeah, but yeah, I thought
he was, you know, just you know, pushing up really.
So I went and told the band. I'm like, Royears
asked me to, you know, come to New York and
they were like, yo, let's go. And so I was like, wait,
I wasn't really planning on accepting, and they were like, no,
you gotta just all go. So tonight we shout to

(35:36):
Roy and I said, Roy, Yeah, so the whole band
was gonna says, I don't need the whole band, so
so that's gonna be I was like, that's gonna be
awkward because they got the van, they got transportation to
get me here, so so that is all, oh, oh okay.

(36:03):
So so I went the whole man decided to come,
I said, but then he said he doesn't really need
So we got there and he took me in Zachary
bro But when we got there, uh, he had set
us up to stay at William Allen's house. William Allen
is an arrange of string arranger for all of those
beautiful Ubiquity arranged songs. He did all those string arrangements

(36:24):
and we were staying I was no, Zach and I
was staying at William Allen's apartment in Harlem, and it
was February twenty first, nine two, and it was like,
you know, forty seven inches of snow on the ground
and the cab like picked that a gift of yours
to I remember this definitely. I remember a lot of
things like that that, like like things that terrify you,

(36:46):
you have a tendency to yeah, because we we we passed.
I mean, I'm from Dallas, Okay, we have nice large
streets and stop signs and life there by falls the rules.
So we got here, we passed by like blocks. I'm like,
so I think we passed it. I think it was
back there. He just said, okay, put it in reverse
and just like bad bound backwards, you know, like two

(37:09):
and a half blocks in the snow, and you know,
on a one way street. And I was just scared.
List And we got there and we stayed at Williams
and um and you know there was he didn't have
a bad force. He could barely walk through his house
because he was a hoarder. He had no food and

(37:30):
we were like what he said, whatever, you finding the
pantry open? The pantry roaches jumped out. It was like,
it's his mind. That was like my introduction to back off,
imagine your story. Back off. No, I got a freaky

(37:52):
story for it, right, But that's later with I got
the whole mother freaky roy story. He's crazy. You heard
the story, go ahead and tell it. The Royals nuts.
But yeah, that was okay, right, that was just my

(38:17):
introduction to New York story. That's all right. So you
I mean, this was obviously just a conversation between the
three of you, and you're saying that you met at
this Luther bandro show met and Pete met, okay a
few years before. Well we were going to try out
different singers. But I mean, I want to back track

(38:40):
actually because you answer the president was kind of really
my mentor in a way was Jeff because he didn't
know that, but he was kind of out. He's finding
out right now. You know how many interviews have you
the way he thinks about what I think? Because I like,
I just come out of with the Howard University, you

(39:02):
know what the how would you know? Uh? And uh
so I was there around the same time as Wayne
Lindsay and uh some other people and uh, you graduated
I graduated eighty two. Le Roy Hudson, Uh, yes, yes,
was he a teacher there as well as a teacher.
He was a teacher there, Hudson. I think I think

(39:22):
that I think you're talking about. Yeah, I think, yeah,
I think it's if that's who you're talking about. But
I wasn't even the jazz band. But I had been,
uh how the Rene and Angela thing, right, I think right,
like graduated or right something like that. Um, I was
working with a friend who was who was the It
was a singer named Raymond Reader, a great singer, right
and right? Yeah, and uh had a female too, right.

(39:46):
They were going to turn into another Shalomar. Okay, yeah,
so that's who. That's who. That's who. We were going
to be another Shalomark, all right. As you can see,
didn't quite work but six five pop and really you know,
uh looked like Pinocchio or whatever trying to poplock. But anyway,
um so, so I was in the band, but that

(40:07):
situation didn't work out. I won't get to the gory
details of it. But then they didn't work out and
I went back to New York. But I wasn't really
necessarily in the New York scene, like Jeff was, you know,
I would sometimes I would hang with Jeff and he
was working with Kashif and I went with him up there,
and a lot of people who were there were like,
who Who's who's the guy over there? You know? And
he's a weird guy. Who's the weird guy? You know?

(40:28):
And Jeff Jeff said, no, he's cool. That was the question. Yeah,
they only let me up there once. But but but
I when I was up there once, so there was
a she had a whole bunch of songwriters and they
were like working to said we can need come up
with these ideas. And they said you write songs, right
and said, yeah, I know, I read a little bit,
so so right now and they were kind kind of

(40:49):
jim the idea and I was like, oh, yeah, I came.
I started singing this up and then they were like
at us, all right, that's cool. Uh And then I left.
I think about maybe a year later, I kind of
heard what I was singing that day. But but but
but uh so there was a like, uh so I
knew some of the people from Howard University, but in

(41:09):
terms of like the New York crew and hanging all
the things and stuff. I didn't kind of really know
as much as Sandra and Jeff um. But as we
got a chance were producing records, like Jeff was saying,
we gotta do some stuff with Merlin Bob and said
we were in the Atlantic, they said, once you do
God to do a producer album. And that's how it
came about finding saying, but the thing is, since I
was the outsider and the and the most sucked up

(41:30):
one of the group, all right, they didn't know you
know people, you know, the interest you're talking about that
times and how people related and because yeah, it was
a kind of a click. I was never a kind
of any any clicks and I'd be like, Jeff, can
I can I go with you? Said, yeah, I know
he's cool, cool talk, you know, but but but but
if affected kind of I sounded music because the eighties

(41:51):
was a very unique time. I'm unique times, like the
kind of bridge as you know, between transition, transition and
all all I know is whatever the fund was going
on in the eighties For me personally, I wasn't sucking digging,
but I hadn't really but I hadn't really realized what
that was yet. So so there was these things were
really great, but there was a certain sound. So we

(42:12):
started to make our album why sid you fit in
all these singers they would like and came feel a
little bit from the Kashif school. He made some real
dough records. It was like it was a type of
singing back then, the background singers love come down you
know that kind of how you how you who? And
then with this ship was tight. This is my favorite
episode podcast, This is My Dream. Was talking to three

(42:37):
of Mirrors information. She was like who but you know,
but but Sidra when she said you like she was
a sign and she was that fucking Tina turned up
kind of like, my ship has unbridled. I'm trying to
be he who who? But I wasn't really into that.

(42:58):
She didn't like the sheeny was. I didn't. Yeah, I
didn't know what that thing was. And we were doing
backmast album and be like, she does not make it
so clean. They'd be like that was that was? That
was a Jackie Deson double take for those on radio
who couldn't see what I just did that It was
Jackie Leeson. But anyway, um so uh so in terms

(43:19):
of Sundy just fit into an energy that that we had,
and we knew naturally and we need and even with
our first album Chapters, we hadn't really locked in quite
what that thing was. But all I knew was I
didn't want to hear the ship I had been hearing. Yeah, okay,
well let's get to that. I think we could safely

(43:41):
assume that the most defined sound of what the eighties was,
at least for the beginning of the eighties to the
mid eighties, I mean, was the kind of sound that
Prince crafted that. But there was Bookie, I know, with
with with the work that can she did and everything
and and and in Brooklyn, Uh, he did a big

(44:04):
time with James uh Leroy Burgess, and I mean Leroy Burgess. Uh,
what if you work with everyone? Did you? My life
is a blur and term to that, I mean, I yeah,
I have worked with a lot of people. I mean
the eighties to me, I mean, I thought, I think
the seventies to me was like the best time for music.

(44:27):
But the eighties was transitional to me because the sound
just changing, and I thought people were just trying to
figure things out in terms of of the sounds. Sonically,
everything kind of just sounded stiff and and and and perfect,
and we just kind of had to go through that.
I mean, even today, as much as we can get

(44:49):
to anything that we want, sometimes sonically things just sound
kind of over quantized to me. Yeah. Yeah, everything just
sounds kind of over quantized in this to It's not bad,
it's not good. It's not a bad thing or a
good thing. It's but it's a thing. So yeah, yeah,
it's it's numbing. You know, it's because the funny thing is,
I went to to visit my son over the Christmas holidays,

(45:13):
you know what I mean. I don't really celebrate Christmas,
but you know, I had to go see my son.
So he was taking me back to the airport and
we were listening to all this music, right and I'm
hearing one song and everything sounds perfect, everything, you know, harmonies,
big drums, everybody's into the loudness and the you know.
So this one song comes on by this girl I

(45:36):
forgot her name, but it sounded so soulful, harmonies. As
soon as the song finished, me and my son started
laughing at the same time. We started laughing at the
same night. You know, he's my son. But he realized
that everything sounded the same and there's always like just
kind of one song that will kind of stick out
and you realize how fucked up things a kind of

(45:59):
gotten in their anybody's kind of just playing the you know,
I gotta sound like the last thing, you know, so
you know I was was I making a point here?
Everything sounds the same. Well that's the thing though, But
in the eighties you have to choose a path and
it's like there's boogie, there's the Minneapolis Prints sound, um,

(46:24):
there's also hip hop. How are you guys wrestling with
what hip hop has becoming the fact that you're developing
a craft. But yet were people that just seemed to well,
I think what the what the key transition was for us,
and then how it leads musically is that there was
this link with sixties and seventies children music. So but

(46:47):
in the music got electronic and slick. But but what
what the bridge was was hip hop. So hip hop
was feeding off of that rawness from the James Brown,
the drums and all that kind of stuff. And in
the late age, in the late and yeah, it was
yeah in the mid eight like have you guys dealt
with Larry Smith or I'm just throwing out new York's

(47:08):
names like I know him. I mean, yeah, I don't
know him personally. I don't know him personally, but I
know of him. I know of him. I know of him.
I think the thought was what I was getting to
is like we did a session. I went to it.
I was fun to Jeff carrying the Jeff's bags to
a session one day and it was and I was

(47:28):
just lots of I would just sit there and be
quiet and listen to people. That was they were doing
a hip hop record, hip hop record, and I was
listened to and I was like, you know, at that
particular time, I hadn't really heard yet somebody being no
sensibilities of hit hip hop. The drums was happened underneath
with a melodic song kind of at that particular time.

(47:50):
So that kinds of bringing that together. And plus there
was there was starting to be on the on the
East Coast certain rock records that I heard that I
liked and just and then listening to more like soulful stuff.
And since people called the standard, We're gonna become the
family's standard. Change your name because Evan Jeffreys in the
stand was too confusing. Uh, that story we can get

(48:12):
to it a later time. Yeah, but um um, that's
what led to Ghetto Heaven. That that idea of let
me sing a song over this within the context of
this hip hop, roar ish type of be sound and
get all. I'm gonna tell him how Ghetto Heaven came

(48:33):
to be? You know what is Ghetto Heaven? Now that
we're going to break down the song before I even
get to how you guys got your group name, but
let's go. You want me to tell you how the
song came to be? You know? Um, salam Remy, yes,
we do. He was kind of the inspiration for that
song because when we were on our first album, you know,

(48:57):
we did the first album the record company, you know,
we were like that group that they didn't exactly know
what to do with us, so they kind of sucked
us around. And you know, so I said, I knew
so rock Bob was Atlantic first Yeah, with Sylvia together. Okay,

(49:28):
I forgot, I forgot so. Yeah, they were getting us all,
me and Pete all the production work. You know. But anyway,
after that first album, I knew, uh salam Remy's father
because him and I grew up together. We did the
Chitland circuit. You know, we did a lot of sessions together.
So I said, Pete, we need to go talk to

(49:51):
my friend Van van Gibbs. Right. So Van was over
there on fifty fourth Street and Leventh Avenue. I said,
I set up a meeting him so we could kind
of talk because we were getting kind of frustrated with
what the record company was not doing for us. And uh,
we had a little talk and then we heard this

(50:11):
music coming and coming from the basements. I said, what's that?
He said, that's my son. His name is I knew
he that's my son's Salami. He's going to be a producer.
He said, you want to He said, you want to
go down and listen. So we went down and listened
to the music, and then listen to the music he said,
he came out and listened to me. Said I got
an idea. He said, I got an idea. So after

(50:35):
we left bands, we went straight back to Ebbisfield and
worked on Gether. Came up with a drum beat. Came
up with a drum beat. Now, if you remember the
original version of Red Key Drama, came up with a
baseline Dug dug, dude dug. That came from because I

(50:56):
was in love with Cool Mode, and I said I
was a little with Cool MODI that he had us
on the Wild Wild West, the doom, the boommmm. So
then I that's why I didn't even know if you
remember I told you, I said, I like that basic
met each other right now. I didn't know. I didn't
know that baseline. So then you you changed doom boom boom.

(51:21):
So so he was like a boom boom boom. Yeah,
boom boom. I love that base. So then you like
twisted the record company heard it. Yeah, but see here's
the thing. Here's the thing. See that this is a
piece of the piece that I always remember about the
inspiration of Ghetto Heaven because the salon thing was part
of that. But also that we had gone to the label.

(51:42):
We had submitted the whole record. We submitted the whole album,
and they were like, yeah, this is dope, it's dope.
We didn't hear no singles, so we were like son
of them, and so we were like so excited excited
about the album and disappointed that they didn't hear you know,
because we felt like they were singles, you know, just
you know, was changing. So we're like, remember, I remember

(52:03):
you know. Eventually getting back to studio was like, you know,
it was just like they just want nursery rhymes. There's
want nursery rhymes. Dore like I love my baby. No, No,
I remember Rush Rust Rush Rush Rush was a dare

(52:23):
one time out? Was Rush Rush the last song done
for a spell Bound the first song I was the
same formula exactly right. No, that wasn't That wasn't Well,
you won't hear the Rush Rush story. I asked you.
I said, you can't. You can't play. You can't write
a song with just two chords. No, no, No, that

(52:44):
wasn't it. That was that was that was wasn't No,
at the time, what happened. What happened. Actually what happens
is you know, at the time, baby Face was writing
a lot of songs. We would go back and baby
Face is a great song right of course I love him,
but I but I would say to her, I can
write those songs in my sleep. So did you purposely

(53:08):
use the d X seven patch just as a point
of sarcasm. No, it wasn't put the sarcasm was. I
literally said, because I knew what his thing was. The
thing was, it was the way he hit the beat,
So I was like, I jokingly went to the piano
and I said, Yo, theest bub some bees y'arena kiss

(53:30):
that puts my soul that ease. And I was I
was like, oh, that sounds good. And that's the first
two things I said. But there was a way he used.
He would write songs that kind of go I wanna run,
I wanna try, I'm gonna take to yeah, yeah on
my hot it's it's a it's a it's a pocket

(53:51):
to us to a song. And every song when it
has that pocket. So once you figure out what the
mo folk's pocket is, he be like, oh you wanna
that type of song? You want that type of that's
the pocket of that thing. So it's all up. So
that's my brother. Yoh text, I gotta do this. I

(54:16):
got on show, I gotta do this. Hang on, please
pick up? What time is it on that? I was
just pick up please. I meant to tell him that
when I met him too, but he wasn't being it's
not a bud though. Six o'clock. Damn it, damn it,

(54:37):
damn damn it. I'm officially calling Jimmy Jam to let
him know that he's officially my second favorite message message
who I Got back? I think he thinks that I'm
Bud Donald, but I got I got Jimmy Jam just
bring him no, I know because it really was for

(54:59):
Jimmy Jam because the first song that I did, we
kind of did it together. But I did this this
track with this song for this girl named Janice Christie alright,
and he Stroked. It's one of the worst songs I
ever wrote. But but it came a little bit of
a hit, but it wasn't hit. It was here was
this this nineteen eighties six or eighties seven, something like that. Yeah,

(55:21):
So the Jannet Jacksons record to come out, so everybody
was trying to do that What have you done for
me lately? Um? And what was that? What was what
was that song by that group? No? But it was
another group is another one that came out, Alice be
my girl. Um, full Force, Full Force, Full Force had
a record, right that was really dope for me. Yeah.

(55:42):
But so so the baseline for he Stroke was a
kind of a combination for Jimmy and it was like
it was like doo doo doo doo doo doo, doom
doom doom, doom but do do but boom boom, you know. So,
so it was that and the song was horrible to

(56:05):
he ducked stroke up. It was kind of fly. It
was fly for the time, but usually my jokes songs
and end up being his my t to all. That's
what happened. Yes, ghetto Heaven rush like promise of even
he is serious serious He put that one out under

(56:28):
another name. I noticed Alan Smithy. Yeah that was really
dumb too because at the time, because in two thousand,
around two thousand, form like they're not checking for us
anymore but checking my name to Joshua Nile. Did they
kick out a new young hip podcast which with the
dumbest shit I ever did my fucking oh sorry stopped

(56:48):
stop editing. Yeah yeah, so I wrote he he didn't
he is. And but the thing is what inspired that
was again going back to hip hop. What was there
was this record I Love Broken Language and Broken Broken
Language by Smooth Yeah get that track like so so
so he was like the minded So I'm like, he

(57:12):
is the dope lector, the dope tector. So that's what.
So when you can motherfucker yo, where did you hear
hear that song? Right? The coke can cut up the
hook up on your hook up up. The Dirty Five
sent shorts on my two fives overlook the Raptron. The

(57:32):
Turner asked whip and learning on the hit Man, the
money Earner, the tact the song band and thing feel
the baby can save the Lange believe guy. So that's
that's connection between you know, the soul hit by just

(57:54):
telling your arm bead, broken language by Smooth the Hustler. Yeah,
basically know number two. Now. You know. The interesting interesting
thing about that project that I remember too is that
I remember them taking a long time to get back

(58:15):
to us about doing the song because and we almost
thought that they didn't want to do the song, and
we almost thought that maybe they were trying to get
somebody else to produce the song. And it was like
it was just kind of a weird thing, and I
think we almost gave the song away. Yeah, what the
problem was, they didn't They didn't intend for the first

(58:36):
single to come from exactly exactly. They didn't intend for
the first single to come from us, and and so.
But they made the right choice finally. But the right
about that album though, is and and and and go
back to Jimmy and Terry because we love love love
and one of but they that's their second single was
I Wish sign um the um the single, Yeah, I

(59:01):
think it's called I Wish or something, but it's a
song we had in there called forwards from a hard Player.
There was a really dope song that actually, uh should
have been should have been the next thing, but it wasn't.
But it was a tie so it was good. But
we but you know, there was a lot of times
with the music industry as politics and you know, um yeah,
and we we get it there, but the name and

(59:22):
we actually offered this, so I think we had tried
to get it to Whitney, Houston and then I think Satan.
I'm sorry, Chris, I'm Clive Davis. Davis Sorry. I didn't

(59:43):
know that my space is still a thing. Well, I
mean maybe in the archive world wherever that thing is. Unfortunately,
my uh whatever, the bio of my mind space thing
is like Clyde Davis is the Devil and someone from Ariston. Yeah,
I don't know. I wasn't inviting the first place. That's why,

(01:00:24):
uh yo, my mind is about the explode right now
because we're all over the place all right, So since
we're since we're no, no, we're just being sporadic. This
is why I want to know, because when I got
word that you guys were producing spell Bound, Paul Abdul's
second album, Yes, her second album, her follow up to

(01:00:45):
her I mean her, it was a massive record. Yeah,
I mean forever your girl was more like an industry
that built virgin and opportunities like that. Don't um, they don't.
That story doesn't happen. When when I heard you guys

(01:01:07):
were producing it and the line share of the record,
I was like, yo, like how yeah, that's from him
playing in her house, playing at piano, and how did
that happen? How did it happen? Because I would have thought, okay,
uh well okay knocked out, that was upstart l and

(01:01:27):
maybe face. But now that they're this ship, let's let's
like she's an industry. Now we're doing Aftershock. First, she
wanted to do she wanted to do something different, she
was she wanted to make an artistic statement. She didn't
she wanted she didn't want to see the machine. She
didn't want to do felt like she wanted to move
past that. Yeah, she was big enough to make it

(01:01:51):
and she's really underestimated in terms of her artistic and
intellect and discipline. Um so she was. She heard Rush Rush,
so she flipped with that. And then and we were
working with a group called after Shock that we did
album for Virgin so and that's how she kind of
heard about us. And after she heard Rush Rush, she
loved that. And then what else did were right? Then?
I think promise of a New Day and then the

(01:02:19):
New Day was so dark the way those dissonance strings kid.
But but but the juxtaposition of the video being so
sunny and everything and everything, I was like, yo, but
listen the coolest song on there. I'm sorry it was
via biology. What happened? What I think the MTV Award

(01:02:40):
performance did it? Because literally the next day we were
watching it, watching ship. So the next day readyo they
the managers told us you already is literally saying you're
not sending us the fat song, aren't you? Yo? Man
with it was just put in context, I'm googling the

(01:03:04):
video so she no, it's not even the video she
beform at the MTV Awards. And because you know, I mean,
pre social media, I don't even know how people managed
to like I knew. The collective thought was that, oh
my god, what happened to Paula exactly, and they blamed
the song like single they like it was literally cost

(01:03:31):
you know when you have like but it was a
wireless microphone, I thin, excepting on the back of something
that kind of made it jet out funny angle made
it look she's two pounds if that, and it made
it look like she's like three pounds three yeah, exactly.
So literally the radio was because they were sitting in
the same little next day they were like, you're not
sending us the fat song and just they just it

(01:03:54):
killed the momentum of that song. And honestly, I mean,
if I'm if, I will tell you that that formed that.
The backgrounds on that song, for me, is the most
proud I am of any background I've done recorded in
my career because of the fact that I got to
use my classical training, all of that I did, all

(01:04:14):
of the voices from the I did all of those.
Can we about that? Because Bill sent a video audio
of when she was in high school and I was like,
this can't really be. It was like the nerds, I
know how to front pants nerds where the government the
government tape. That's that's but range Man, well not, I

(01:04:47):
mean I was strained. I mean, you know, I went
to like music and art, where Erica went, where Roy
Hargrove went, Nora Jones, all that wut doing unless us.
They told me to stop being so perfect, and I
was he you know, it's like, oh really okay, yeah,
can you can you still hit the you still got yeah,

(01:05:10):
that's in you, you know, so the classical training never
leaves you. But the that's what I got. The best
training I got isn't being in the studio. Peton Jeff
telling me the field is the most importantly the field.
Don't lose the field. I'm like, can I do that again?
They're like no, I felt good, You're not doing it again.
I'm like, please gotta do it again? Like nope, yeah, yeah.

(01:05:35):
They didn't let me, you know, perfect, They don't let
me perfect perfect it so little. They're like that whatever
to take is right. I wanted to be like something else.
But if it feels right and they both end like
you know, they're like that and Mark Batson, it's like
that these are those producers don't care if the note

(01:05:57):
is right, if the if the if the pronuncer. They
want to take to feel right. That's the prime objective.
So you know that's important because you know I listened.
I was actually they listened to a bunch of like,
you know, seventies and eighties stuff like Gene Karn and

(01:06:18):
you know, infantized, And I'm like, she ain't singing it.
Then it ain't like perfect. It's about the field. It's
about you know, it's about where where she's, where she's
coming from with the note. It's not about where to
note where to no lands where she comes from. But
it's funny because she still has a similar background as
you were. She knows how to do with classically. Yeah,
she's classically trying to Yeah. Um, Jeff, you're not getting

(01:06:41):
away with us. I'm sorry. I have to at least
back up the tree and at least fifteen years just
to start with. First, for starters, you were taught by
you step for my teeth. No, I study with him
for a second in college for a second, and I
wasn't taught by him. I was. I went to Burrow

(01:07:03):
Manhattan Community College for about a year. That was just
my extent of college because once I made it out
of high school, I don't know how, I said, year college,
you tried. So I got in there and and I
studied with him for a little while, and he was
you know, he shown me some things that in fact,
I didn't even know he played flute. I didn't know

(01:07:24):
what the flute was his thing. And you know, I
would just once a week I go and need you know,
we just do some private lesson things. And you know
that's about my extent, the extent of me studying with him.
What is your preferred weapon of choice as far as
your arsenal is a soprano, alto tenor. I've been playing

(01:07:45):
a lot of soprano lately. I don't I don't want to.
I mean, gun to your head? What do you what's
what's your acts? Because you have so many with the guy.

(01:08:08):
But I've been playing a lot of soprano, probably probably
the last maybe maybe four or five years, I've been
playing a lot of soprano. A lot of soprano. Be
un buried. Though I love you, I love you on
barried too, but that doesn't make me enough. Okay, I'm
gonna ask you. Okay, So here's the question I ask

(01:08:29):
so our particular sex player, uh Ian Uh what's Ian's
last name? And Hendrickson Smith Ian Smith, formerly of the
Dad Kings Um. And so the thing is that Ian
hates when I'm mak him break out the soprano. He
doesn't now for us, it's hilarious, but he hates the

(01:08:52):
sheen associated with the soprano. Well, I mean that, and
you know it's almost like I guess the unwritten rule
is like after Coltrane, Okay, you know it's done with it?
Who else wants to and more power Wayne Shorter? More
power to you know, I know there are other grades

(01:09:13):
that have touched. I didn't like Cold Trane sound on soprano.
You're serious sound, You're you're one of a kind. I
didn't like his sound on soprano. Tanna, He's my favorite
all time, but surprised I didn't like. I didn't like
his tone. Who did you like on soprano? I like
Wayne Short? Yeah, okay, so you feel the definitive sound

(01:09:34):
of the soprano Sacks is Wayne shut the definitive sound
just his sound just connects with me more on soprano
Coldtrane because I think he got if I remember correctly,
that was something that was a gift from Miles right, yes, yeah,
so you know he picked it up. I guess he
was trying to do something. But I wasn't crazy about

(01:09:54):
his sound sonically a sound. I wasn't crazy about. What
are you looking for? Wasy? I wasn't looking for anything.
It just wasn't connecting me. It just sounded kind of no,
not even contrived. I think he was sincere about what
he was doing, but it just didn't sound. It wasn't
for me. That's the best. So, what's your favorite period

(01:10:15):
of culturing? Then giant steps even spiritual or know that,
the stuff when the stuff when he started, I mean
I liked the I mean the stuff where he started
going out. It just got a little bit too out
for me, you know. But the era giant steps before that,

(01:10:39):
you know, stuff he was doing in the sixties with
Miles was. I loved all of that stuff. I mean,
he had like a sound to me, he just had
his sound just connected. I remember, so, who's your sax Scobin?
Because I just naturally assumed that everyone worships the culturally
no matter what. Yeah, culture ain't no matter what. I mean.

(01:11:02):
I like Michael Brecker. He was like that that cat
to me, um so hero Okay, you know, I mean
those two guys. I mean, it's just so many guys.
I mean I could go back to Dexter Garden and
Press was his had his own sound, you know, the
smooth thing. Uh, Bird was just Bird was fast. I mean, ah, Man,

(01:11:30):
bird was just so I don't know, Man, so explained
to me. Because the thing is that you managed to
capture the one the one thing I always hear about
when an iconic solo is captured in the song. It's
always the same story. And the story is Okay, guys,

(01:11:51):
I'm ready to cut it. Nope, we got it already.
That was very much. I know that's your story, but
are you once did you know that you captured Lightning
the Bottle with with your saxophone Caribbean? No, No, that
that I have to give credit to the producer, Keith

(01:12:13):
Diamond at the time because he was the one that
he knew pretty much what he wanted in terms of
of of the song. So we would just take sections
because I mean I went into the studio and I
was just kind of trying to get a feel of
what the song was, and they had to tape rolling.
He told Bob Rosy to roll the tape while I

(01:12:35):
was playing and I was in front of the mike.
They were trying to get a sound. So I said, okay,
I think I got something, and then he said, no,
come on in. I was just warming up. Let me
just take it. And no, no, that song, that song
was pieces because he had the whole tape rolling and

(01:12:55):
he took pieces of what I played throughout the from
the beginning of the song to the end. I want
you to play this part here, and we just kind
of constructed the solo and the and the interesting thing

(01:13:16):
about it is like after that song blew up, man,
I was getting calls like everybody and their mother. I
was was calling me and my friend Van. He said, yo, Jeff,
you need to start charging people because I was under
charging people. And he said, you know your ship is hot,
you need to get paid for it. So I just
started charging people. Yeah, I went up a lot more.

(01:13:41):
Steve can attest to this. So when Billy Ocean finally
agreed to come on the show, and this is after
six long years of begging him, please come on the
Tonight Show, Please please please Tonight Show, and he finally
agrees to them to the show, and we're losing our ship,

(01:14:02):
and then I'm looking at Ian, our sax player, and
we were like, dude, you have to do it note
for and do we spend two hours just singing that
ship to him, But everybody's whisper. Here's the thing though,

(01:14:26):
It's like I know a lot of Tarik's lyrics. Tarik,
you know, I mean Tuik will let me, let me
not misrepresent him. I think the average person knows, like
can can retain like maybe seventy five songs or seventy

(01:14:50):
those things. But it's just like, I mean, I know
that song because I DJ so much. I you know,
watch TVO American Americans who were born before I have
to know that that. Yeah, for me, she feels like
like she meant the Chief is like deep, like he's
like Doug Carne. He's like he's more avant garde. That's

(01:15:16):
where his heart is. I mean, he made his meat
and potatoes as the dap Kings, so all that. Like
you don't think his boogie when you don't know that, No, no, no,
you know it. But I don't think like any anybody
that's on the Tonight show now, Like again, my story
is that I didn't grow up saying hey, one day,
I'm gonna be the new Doc Severson of The Tonight Show.

(01:15:37):
It just happened, and I'm prepared for it. But part
of the job of being on the Tonight Show is
that you all the uh pop culture sponging that you've
done your life, everything you've learned now gets utilized on
this show. So, I mean, you know that so low,
but it's like, now you gotta executed perfect you that's differently. Yeah,

(01:16:04):
that's no, that's I love that gait. Wait, Sanford and

(01:16:27):
you still, what's the last time you had to play
that still verbatim? Or don't tell me thirty five years
ago after I did it? That was it when I
had to play it? I can't. Oh no, no, no no.
The only two times I really played with him was
one night the week the night he was on Saturday

(01:16:49):
Night Live. He did two nights at Radio City. Those
were the only times that I ever played with Billy.
And ironically, the last night that I laid with him
was when I lost the horn. That that because we
went out, literally lost that horn. And let me tell
you what happened after the show, you know, because he

(01:17:11):
sold out Radio City two nights, I sat him with
him two nights. The second night we went and we
after the show, we went to kind of celebrate, you know,
went up, I got a couple of drinks. I went
down into the After we were done, I went down
into the garage to get my car. Um the guy

(01:17:31):
brought my car. My horn was in the back of
the car. I didn't put it in the car yet.
I paid, went and paid for the car and drove
off and left my horn. When I got home, I
looked in the trunk. I was like, oh ship. So
I went back to the garage. Of course they didn't
see nothing. They didn't see they didn't see Nobody saw anything.

(01:17:55):
And so the only time I ever see that harned
for reruns of Saturday Night Live. Somewhere in life, there's
like some grandkid that got a saxophone for church, not
knowing what they just got. Yeah, well, somebody, Jesus Christ,
I think should be in a black So sound your okay?

(01:18:19):
So your journey is just as rich as well. I
tell you, we're not even going to get properly get
to the family staff. This is almost like a nine
part episode. How much how much pounding of the payment
did you do in New York Uh oh wait, can

(01:18:41):
you wait one second please, we're getting a phone call.
We're getting a phone call right now, James Harris the third, Yes, sir,
what's how you doing. I'm currently right now taping an
episode of Quest Love Supreme. Um, I regret to form
you of this, and I've made it public. I've declared

(01:19:02):
my loyalty, my allegiance to you since the history of
my show. But you are now officially in second place.
You're you, You've been, You've been, You've been. You've been
demoted to second place because the Family Stand episode is

(01:19:26):
the craziest thing I've heard in my life. Yes, I'm
currently right now with with v Jeffrey sounds just named
Victor and Peter and yeah, I had to tell you
that live on the air that we love you, sweetie.
You know that, thank you for getting give me the
hands up. On Christous Radio, They're like they're gonna do

(01:19:55):
your so yes, I know, yeah, yeah, we want to
come on boy Sympathy Love. I'm sorry. This is the
craziest that the stories I've heard. It's you know, like
we're very organized, we're going in chronological order, just going
all over the places. I can't wait to hear it. Yes, anyway,
I just want to let you know your number two,

(01:20:16):
but you're still number one. But number two, what do
you say, number one? I'm still number one as a
solo actor. Yes, I'm just gonna get my category together.
All right, you're you're still the number one solo act
on Quest Loves You. Thank you? Perfect? Okay? Alright, bro, alright, bro, god,

(01:20:41):
what'll we'll hold up? Hold up? Wait a minute? All right?
You know when you hear my voice, sorry you're disappointed,
but you're gonna have to wait seven more days to
get This is beyond t this is this is wow.
I can't even describe what you're experiencing right now. I
think this is probably shaping up to be one of

(01:21:03):
my favorite episodes that I know. I went on record
to say that Jimmy jam had the absolute best episode
of Quest Love Supreme. But this might be a neck
and neck I don't know. I'm gonna have to ask
the rest of the team Supreme. So please join us
next week for part two of this legend already legendary, classic,
instant classic episode of the family stand on Quest Love Suprime.

(01:21:30):
It's Love Supreme. It's a production of my heart Radio.
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