Chapter 18: Going Rogue With Jo Wenberg

In an exclusive, in depth one-on-one, Rachel is joined by Jo Wenberg.

Rachel is giving Jo the chance to tell her side of the story... in fact, she's telling ALL.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Rachel gos Rogue.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Rachel Goes Rogue. This is
your host, Rachel Savannah Levis, and today I have Joe
from vander Pump Rules joining me today, one of the
few people that I still keep in contact from that
circle of friends that I was so involved in.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
So please welcome Joe.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
The first thing I want to ask you, because you've
kind of been around this friend group for a while.
We know you were friends with Kristen and have gotten
involved with Tom Schwartz and now you have had a
bigger role on season eleven of vander Pump Rules. Yes,

(00:57):
what is it like watching yourself back on TV?

Speaker 1 (01:02):
It's watching myself back on TV. Like being behind the
scenes and being behind the camera doing hair for some
of the cast was easy, and then being in front
of the camera was also easy because I was honest
and I just didn't have any inhibitions because last.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Year, you did you make a few appearances like was
it a very minute?

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Now? Last year was the moment where Schwartz came home
from something that you guys were filming and the pizza
was burning and then that's sorry, we called it pizzagate.
Me and Shortsy called it pizzagate and the camera crew
came in and I was staying at his place, yeah,
and I was about to leave the next day and

(01:46):
they came in and they saw and they recorded me leaving,
and I was like, I'm out of here. Following that,
it turned into who's Joe, Who's Joe? Who's Joe? Who's Joe?
And Schwartz and I were dating, and we try to
keep it like under wraps totally because it wasn't a

(02:07):
negative thing. It was more of a we were looking
to see how we were going to like purposefully get
to a place and our own time, Schwartz and I
on our own time to like talk about our relationship.
So yeah, I got into this by being asked before
to be on the show, and then finally I said, yeah,

(02:28):
I want to tell my story. I was sick of
being silent and I was sick of everyone else writing
my narrative. So I finally said, let's go two scenes,
to fifteen episodes, to six confessionals, to the reunion, to
the finale. Later.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, So do you think that it was like more
than you initially thought that you were going to be involved?

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yes, However, the journey was easy for me with production
and with the crew. What wasn't easy for me was
the cast.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Let's talk about that.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
It's just imprinted in my mind now watching it back
and seeing that play out at Hotel Ziggy where the
girls are just i mean low key harassing you for
no reason and Sena for some reason has like this
huge issue with you wearing a.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Huge issue with me wearing a hat.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
So what the heck was that all about?

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Great question. I walked in there excited to be a
part of what Schwartz and I had already decided to
go to together, so we were excited to go support
and also, to be honest with you, I kind of
wanted to see what Hotel Ziggy.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Was all about.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, and getting there, you can see at the bar,
Schwartz and are absolutely fine, we're bantering, we're doing our
own thing. And then what made me really upset was,
you know, you see me starting to plug my ears
after about five minutes that go by, and I'm thinking,
what's going on? And that was right after Sheena had

(04:00):
tried to take my hat off, which.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
It's not okay, it's a huge boundary violation.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
And I didn't know how to react to it either,
because I've never had that ever happen to me before.
I've never had somebody walk up to me and be like, like, listen,
all of my hair, says friends and I we were
hats at the end of the day. So when we're
all done doing hair and we're all done working, are
absolutely number one thing we do is we put a
hat on, or we put a headband on, or we

(04:30):
just kind of like whip our hair up in a ponytail.
I didn't have any idea why that was such an issue.
Looking back now and seeing that episode, I felt pretty violated,
to be honest, and like, I felt uncomfortable, and you
can see me feeling very uncomfortable, and then it's kind
of like hey, Shina, nice to meet you, and then
you tell me to take off my hat. No one

(04:53):
wants to ever have somebody take off an article, like
an article of clothing that's either like a hat or
like what if she was like, oh, yeah, your shoes
are I don't know, I mean, and then they take
it away from me. I mean, what if I had
like a greasy head of like I mean, I'm so
grateful that I had braids on, but like I would

(05:14):
have been mocked on national television. Yeah, I mean it was.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, I mean you were mocked on national I was.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Mocked on national television. And let's talk about that. I
still don't know why. Is it because I'm just a
part of Tom Schwartz's life? Is it because I don't know?

Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
My theory, yeah, is that you aren't this cookie cutter,
influencer type personality that prioritizes the show about.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Is vander Pump rules, Yes, and for.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
You, I have a life outside of the show.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, you had a whole day working and this is
at the end of the day and you just wanted
to throw on a baseball cap and be comfy.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
And to them, this is their job.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yes, great point.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
This is them clocking in gray point glam hair, makeup
to the nines, dressed like to kill.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Oh, I would dream of that. I pull up and
I just, you know, didn't. I don't have that. Well.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
I feel like your priorities are different, like our priorities
are different. Yeah, you prioritize your actual career, which is hairstyling,
and this is just a side thing that you're doing
because you felt compelled to show up for this season.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I knew I wanted to speak my truth because last
season episode or season ten was a lot of chitter
chatter in the background, and I was never able to
really like talk. So then I thought, finally, I'm gonna
just at some point like screw the silence of Joe.
That did not work. It didn't work for me to

(07:02):
be quiet. And then I thought, well, maybe I'll go
the opposite direction and I might start talking. And when
they came to be and said do you want to
do a couple of scenes, I said yeah, because everything
else was not working. I wasn't able to get my
voice heard. I wasn't able to speak on behalf of myself,

(07:24):
you know. And I wasn't able to because I said no,
I didn't want to film season ten. Season eleven comes around,
and I wanted to be able to have a voice
in front of a microphone in front of an audience
and do the opposite of what season ten was. So
going back and looking at being quiet and not talking

(07:48):
and just sticking to my routine, or finally being in
a place where I'm going to start just showing the
world who I am. I'm going to just try both Okay,
So here I go. I start showing the world who
I am, and I get ripped and I can't believe.

(08:09):
It's you're damned if you do, You're damned if you don't.
And I'm so grateful that I have people like you,
and I have people in my family and friend group
that have gotten me through that. But it's uh, yeah,
it's very interesting to see the reactions from people, even
with you as well, where you don't you don't speak,

(08:32):
you're ripped. Yeah, you speak, you're ripped. Yeah, same thing, Yeah,
same thing. My heart goes out to you. My heart
goes out to you, no time like I could, four
months behind you, I know. And then Joe comes in.
They're like, well, just treat Joe like we're girl.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yeah, you're the new like my season.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
It seems like they just want somebody to annihilate because
I'm so angry.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Angry or something along the lines of just some type
of I don't want to say projection or jealousy or
something like that, because I don't know them well enough
to know them or like them or hate them or not.
But they think that they know me enough to hate me.
And I absolutely don't understand that if you know me enough,
and if you know me well, then I'm okay with criticism, right, like, yeah,

(09:20):
totally fine. But if you don't know me, you don't
don't me enough to hate me, yeah, or even well,
I'll take the likes, you know, I'll take the happiness,
I'll take the kind people that like me. But if
you don't know me enough, like with you as well too,
it's like, you don't know me enough, you can't hate
on me and then put it on an international slash
national platform and have your little minions and like your

(09:44):
followers just rip apart someone. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, that's what I have an issue with, just seeing
how because each cast member has their fan base and
they are kind of like you know, I've just seen
how it plays out. A lot of fans will follow
what the cast members are saying about somebody else. So
I feel like it's very unfair that some of the cast,

(10:13):
like Katie has been saying, Joe's a crackhead.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Correct and use your platform for something positive. You have
a platform, You're so lucky go the opposite direction, like
what you're doing. Yeah, but crackhead.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Wow, it's not okay.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, because first of all, it's insulting to people who
have ADHD.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Number one, it is.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
It's a you know, it's neurodiversity. And then to make
that assumption on national television and perpetuate that type.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
When I don't even actually sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
When you don't even actually do any substances.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
At all, nothing, it's never ever.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
And then it's damaging to somebody very much because now
people are asking.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Me questions about my mental health. And then she's making
it an open book to have anybody else on their
podcast to talk about Joe's mental health. Right, it's a
massive question, and I don't understand, like why it shouldn't
just be between me and my doctor, or me and my
parents or just me.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Well, who's allowed to.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Do I'm not gonna go on tell you know.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, Well speaking on that too,
because Kristin.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yes has spoken messed up.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Kristin has spoken about you on her podcast, Yes, And
I know you guys have a history of friendship.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
We did have a history of friendship.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
And she's kind of painting this picture that you are
an unhinged person that can't handle people coming over to
your apartment and you just like freak out. I mean,
it's probably so frustrating.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
It's very frustrating to have somebody diagnose me who hasn't
talked to me for three plus years. Right, we do
not need to talk about that. You know. If anything,
if I had a mental health situation, she consciously wants
to hurt me basically by pushing me forward. Let's say
I was really, really, really low, You're going to go
and talk about me on an international platform on your podcast.

(12:12):
What good is going to come up from that? That
is something that we have to discuss because I cannot,
even in my mind, believe that somebody else who is
not my friend, not my doctor, not my mom, not
my dad, not you, not anybody that's close to me,
can go on a podcast and talk about I'm banned
from restaurants, the words that came out of her mouth on.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
That podcast, you had a social anxiety.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Social anxiety, even though it was an extrovert and I
wasn't capable of something along the lines of just basically
diagnosing my mental health, which, hey, everybody, no one's allowed
to do that. But you're doctor, and you're not allowed
to talk about that unless you want to talk about that.
And the last person that should talk about that is

(12:57):
a person that doesn't even know you. So let's talk
about the fact that that should be number one that
hurt me the most. And I feel like that's relatable
because a lot of people are going through a lot
of mental everything. No one's perfect everyone, but everyone is perfect.
I'm imperfect, which basically stands for I'm perfect space, I'm

(13:18):
space perfect. But I just don't think that at the
end of the day. You know, we kel if you
wanted to get me on this podcast and talk about
my mental health, you would call me and be like, hey,
can we talk about this. You'd ask me first, and
I would say yes, Yeah, There's no way that I
would ever have somebody that I don't know, like, what
gives you that? Right?

Speaker 2 (13:37):
I think it's awesome on a tangent, No, No, I
mean you're on topic. You're totally on topic because like they,
you know, it seems like every single cast member has
a podcast and you're over here without any type of platform,
which is yes, why.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
I thought it was so important to have you come
on here.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
I was not going to go on any other podcast
besides you or Billy Lee's. Billy Le's is so fun.
I was like, I felt safe with you.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
There's been a lot of people that have reached out
to me to do podcasts and there was just no way.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah besides yours. Yeah, and I just you're so right.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
I wanted to give you, you know, in your platform, so I.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Really appreciate that. Yeah, it is not been easy. Yeah yeah,
I bet well.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Look at you.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
You're so you're like, yeah, but I feel bad that
you haven't had the easiest time either me.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, oh no, I haven't. But okay, I'm coming.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Out the other end.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
I feel like I'm finally like I'm finally like, we're
finally four months behind you.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Cuson, I don't like, I don't care anymore, Like keep
talking about yeah, keep talking about me.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
I don't care, which is weird that they still talk.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
About But you know why, it's because I have this
platform to be able to speak.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
And you're doing it in a positive, productive way.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
You're welcome.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Oh and by the way, I just wanted to say
because a lot of people get confused on like the
Raquel Rachel situation and people are.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Like, oh, if she says Quel, then it's insulting and
blah blah blah blah, blah.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Okay, I just want to clear this up because I
feel comfortable with Joe calling me Raquel because Racket.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
I love my little Racket here.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
She has known me as Raquel for so long, and
now I'm introducing myself to new people as Rachel. So
like the new friendships that I'm forming, I know as
a Rachel dynamic. And when people refer to me as Raquel,
like talking about even me talking about my past self
last season, I refer to myself as Raquel, So I

(15:41):
don't take offense at all.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Just to clear that up. So let's backtrack a little.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Okay, So with the mean girl energy, was that like
only when cameras were rolling or did that like trickle
into real life?

Speaker 1 (15:58):
It trickled into real life. The mean girl energy, I'll
say this really only stemmed from Katie h Laala was
very kind to me. I did not have a lot
of you know connections or you know contacts with anybody
else besides you know Schwartzy tea money as I call him,
uh filming though, Lala was really really nice. The mean

(16:25):
girl energy started when I started dating. I'm gonna be
honest when I when Tom Schwartz and I started dating,
and it mostly came from Katie and then and then Kristen,
and I decided that I wanted to lean into you know,
Tom Schwartz, and he was there for me for a

(16:45):
lot of that, and he was very protective and you know,
as as one should be. He's a very good friend.
And then it trickled into them being confused that I
would film unpronounce to them. They didn't know that I
was only asked to do two scenes. And then it
turned into the whole season, which again production was very

(17:06):
nice to me. The most hate I got was from
the cast. So the meinger and energy has still not stopped.
It's every day, it's consistent. It's been two plus years
of certain people having followers. I believe it's all social
media based because I had a different situation than you did.

(17:28):
I really did not have a hard time with production
or the crew. I had a hard time with the
cast and only certain people, and most of them were
so lovely. But when it came down to it, the
way that I was treated was and still is treated
is beyond I mean, you walk up up to somebody

(17:51):
in a restaurant and you you know, for me, I
like to say hoy to somebody if I know them
or I've seen them before, it would be a hard
turn the cheek, move away. Call me a rack. L
You know, you don't want to be affiliated with somebody
that doesn't want to be affiliated with you, so you
just move energy towards something else. And that's why I

(18:14):
started to plug my ears at Hotel Ziggy, because I
couldn't believe I was hearing things that I didn't want
to hear. The meanness, the anger, the aggression. It's still
not stopping, I will say, though. The people that were
nice to me from day one are still nice to
me right now. So that's a beautiful thing. I don't

(18:35):
know Lala, but she was very nice to me. I
don't you know. I know Tom Schwartz, I know Tom Sandoval,
but and you know Allie, James and Sheena and Brock
and like it's just like they're Katie and Arianna were
not nice to me and they don't even know me.
So again I'll say this, like, if you don't know
me enough to like me, you don't know me enough
to hate me. Like goodness, gracious. Yeah, And I think

(18:59):
the meanness from Katie from the fact that she just
did not want Schwartz to date anybody. It would be
like a tree. If Schwartz was dating a tree, she'd
chop it down.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, so for sure, it's a good analogy. Really, I
have noted here some of the names that they've called you.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Oh yeah, so we've got a couple. Wonderful. Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
I already talked to Joe about this beforehand. Yes, I'm
like springing this on her.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
No, she's not quell. I'm really happy you're actually bringing
us to light because it's something that needs to be addressed. Okay,
so I feel so glad that you're doing this. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yes, Okay, here are some of them.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Joe is a crackhead, crazy rat girl, sociopath, a fucking liar,
sloppy Joe, spooky psycho. How I mean, I don't even
know what question to ask after reading that list. You're
not wrong because it's like so wrong in so many ways.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, each one individually is incorrect. Like it is wrong.
I just look at my little sister, and I look
at my little brother, and I look at my friends
who have kids, and I look at the fact that
they look up to me. Right, and so sorry one second?

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Sorry, Okay, it's okay, you can feel your emotions. It's
a safe place.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
If okay. So, if you break it down, the people
who are saying these things don't know about me or
my family, and they don't even ask questions about anything
about me. A sorry, okay, just trying to break this down.
They don't. And by day I mean these women that
have plats, and by platforms, I mean millions of followers

(21:04):
and podcasts, and clearly.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
It's affected you in I think ways that maybe the
viewer doesn't quite realize, like what we're consuming and accepting
as normal, because we're talking about a real human being.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, people say that I signed up for this, and like, sure,
I signed up for exactly what I did, but I
didn't sign up for other people's actions. I sign up
for my own actions. Production didn't do this to me.
The crew didn't do this to me. It's the people
on the cast that really really hurt me. And I

(21:57):
just can't I just can't believe that thirty five going
through this. That's really messed up. That I'm thirty five
going through this.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, and these are forty year old women exactly.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
I don't know, get a hobby. I can teach you
how to crochet.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
I mean, it's just you do make nice blankets.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
I do.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
I just I made recall a really cute white blanket
and I crucht it. No, that's a really good question. Yeah.
So at the end of the day, sometimes you don't
really get to have the final say, whether or not
you want to have the final say. I mean, I
would have loved to have the final say on so
many things regarding what they would say about me that

(22:38):
was inaccurate, incorrect. I just wasn't in that platform air
arena to have that. So what they're gonna do is
they're gonna make me look like the bad guy and
make them look like the good guy because they're able
to delegate my narrative or they're able to like speak
on exactly who I am and it's not the truth.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, I mean, we're going through very so hard.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Oh fel good though, good.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
You're doing great. Thank you for being vulnerable.

Speaker 4 (23:11):
Oh, I mean this is the thing too, like talking
about this, and unfortunately it is on such a large platform,
like the audience that is viewing.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yes, so talking about this is cathartic.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's so cathartic. I'm so grateful. Kal that you have
me on this podcast because I'm able to feel free,
I'm able to feel safe, and I'm also able to
know that you'll call me out when I need to
be called out, but you also tell me the most
wonderful advice when I need it, you know, like we
are there for each other. Yeah, supportive, Yeah, and let's

(23:48):
use our platforms for that instead of negativity.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (23:51):
Yeah, it's so hard like going through this reality TV experience.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
And yeah, I'm especially not.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Hallowing in your foot step.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Sorry, but yeah, yeah, not having anyone. And now I
kind of know your relationship status with Schwartz right now.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
And you do know my relationship status for Shorts because I've.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Talked to you about it.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, you don't really have him as a great support.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
Sostety and do not anymore.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
No, in this moment, I do not correct. That's a
great way to put it.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, And I think that's from your choosing.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
It's from both of Tom Schwartz, who I call team Money,
and my also choosing. I think that you know, we
don't talk anymore, and we're going to do a little
bit of a boundary situation, and that doesn't mean that
we might not talk in the future, but for right now.
You know, it doesn't mean that I don't miss him,

(25:00):
It doesn't mean that he doesn't miss me. Our relationship
was very organic. It was very granola, very simple, very easy,
very you know, you list all the things that you
want to have in a partner, they were there. The
one thing that wasn't there probably was trust. And that's okay,

(25:26):
because who am I to say who he needs to
be with or who he doesn't need to be with.
What I need to do is I need to move
on and work on myself. It doesn't mean that I
have to talk any type of you know, crepola, it's
the Italian. Yeah. About Tom Schwartz, it means that I

(25:46):
look back and I feel very grateful that I had
somebody in my life that made me so happy. We
could not have laughed more, and I think that we
could have worked through it. However, we're in different places
in our lives, and I support his place and I
support you know, myself, and we're not on bad terms

(26:08):
at all. It's just, you know, I had to set
some boundaries and I feel good about that, and I
wish him all the best with his new girlfriend, and
I hope that you know, he keeps hiking his pants
up and walking around screaming draws up and probably not
because she's probably there.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
But you know, yeah, it's tough.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
It's really tough because I've never been with somebody who
really made me smile almost every single second of every
single day and then and then have an end. And
it's not been easy. I've been very depressed about it.
And then on top of that, it's been tough to
see things going out onto like the World Wide Web,

(26:50):
and you know, Katie did not make it easy. You know,
let's just keep adding layers to like, no one asked
how I was doing. It's the same with you. I
asked how you were doing, Raquel. People didn't ask how
you were doing, right, And it's like no one really
asked how I was doing besides like you or even
some of my closest friends. And it's so interesting to

(27:11):
see how I came out of this working on myself.
Do you have regrets or I don't have regrets? Tom Schwartz,
him and I went through a lot together. We went
through almost a year and a half spending five to
six days a week together and like we just had
like the best time, so it did show me how

(27:35):
to be treated and also showed me how to not
be treated, you know. And I think when there is
a breakup, people think that you're supposed to hate on somebody.
I just I can't. I just don't hate on him.
I just know that we're not compatible right now or
maybe ever.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
You said the only thing missing from that relationship was trust.
What do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 (27:57):
That's a great question. The only thing that is missing
now is trust.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
You trusting him or him trusting you.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Me trusting him.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
From my perspective, it's like he didn't want to commit
to you.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
You're not wrong.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's like he wanted to have his cake and to
eat it too, and he wanted to keep you as
like a secret side piece.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Almost.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
You just nailed it. That's one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Correct, which I feel like is really messed up.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, it is. I should have left. I should have
just said no, good luck, but he would kind of
wrote me back in. And I have a hard time
reliving those those months and days and hours because we
had so many fun times together. I also have a
really hard time with knowing that he could just like

(28:41):
throw me aside. And I can't even imagine like I
think I'm a good catch. You are, thank you, And
at some point, and I don't know when, I was
not aware of when he stopped loving me, so I
probably was the last to know, to be honest.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
I think the thing that is so frustrating is just
seeing how he's, you know, acting one way towards you
off camera, and then once the cameras are up and running,
he's like a completely different person with a different attitude
about the whole situation big time.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
I mean, the whole time we were dating, we were
and you saw this, we were so happy, we were
in love. We would tell each other we loved each other,
and we.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Would be.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Extremely just in our own bubble and we liked it
that way, and the cameras would come up and it
was like I didn't even exist, and it was tough.
It was mind blowingly tough, getting like goose thinking about this,
and then we'd film again, and he would make up

(29:48):
these things and say that like we were both dating
other people and I wasn't dating anybody else. I guess
maybe that was his way of saying that he was
dating somebody else. I was the last to know on honestly, everything,
everything and all I was doing was I was just
being myself.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
I noticed that you still use nicknames for him.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
I do, Yes, Raquel, you are not wrong. I do
use nicknames for Tom Schwartz. I feel like you're still
kind of like grieving back. I'm one hundred percent still grieving. Yeah,
I miss him a lot. I also know that he's
moved on, so there's nothing you can do. Yeah, it's
gonna take me a very long time to get to

(30:34):
get me to a place of happiness again with anybody. Yeah,
I got, I got. I got mentally fucked up, like
I I've never said that before. I haven't been able
to kind of get out of bed unless i've you know,
been doing hair and stuff. My job's been taking care

(30:56):
of me and the church and like just being able
to just have a routine. But you spend time with
somebody for you know, five days a week for a
year plus, and then it gets cut off. It's kind
of like a death. So and then they don't really
help you out with your recovery, you know, and then
you don't know until later that they're already dating somebody else.

(31:19):
And then you were told that he didn't want to date,
you know. It's like pick a lane. You know, it's
just been so mentally frustrating.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
You deserve somebody who's mature and so do you wants commitment?

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Can you walk me through like how you met Schwortz.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
We met at a function with the vander Pump crew.
Would run into him multiple times and we'd always like
high five each other. It was like we were brother
and sister. And at one point I needed a place
to stay, so I landed shorts Is. He's like, yeah,
for sure, for sure, for sure, there's two bedrooms everybody right,
So he.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Was like, you could just stay with me. I have
an extra bed and an extra guest room.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Basically, that's exactly what were you there six days?

Speaker 3 (32:06):
And what was your dynamic with Katie at this time?

Speaker 1 (32:09):
I don't think that we even had a dynamic. I
mean I don't. I was never friends with her super close.
I mean I remember texting her or a text message
when they had gotten a divorce back in months prior,
and that's.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
The text message that she just keeps talking about.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
And I had no idea that was the thing. I mean,
I just thought that would I was like, yeah, we
were in a group of people and I was like, okay, cool.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
I'll just say she's making it sound like you were
like reaching out as a close friend and that it
was only like a week or two later that you
started hanging out with.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Shorts months months after. It's not like me and Shorts
had anything going on whatsoever. If anybody out there can
understand this, it's it's easier to save money. So I
wanted to save money. That was my priority.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
So when you went to stay with him, nothing happened.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Nothing happened.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I mean, Katie's.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Making it seem like you were close and then you
texted her and a week later you guys like you
moved into Schwartz's apartment and you guys were hooking up immediately,
And that's not the case, correct.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Why does she have so much hatred for you?

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Well, let's just navigate the first thing, being close. I'm
not close to Katie, never was, never was. I was
able to be there through a text to give her
some sympathy on her divorce. Human decency, yep, And that
was thrown in my face. So and number two, it

(33:35):
was not the next week that I ever, ever, ever
moved in with anybody, because I was living at my
house at the time. It was months later that I
needed a place to stay. You know, Schwartz had an
extra bedroom he had already moved out. It was months later.
He was like, yeah, no worries stay. And I don't

(33:55):
really understand why this is such a big deal because
it was just nice to have a space to stay
in between my house and my apartment. And it just
so happened that we caught feelings, but it wasn't until
later and we never hooked up.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Do you think Katie has you know, was it just
you or is it like because it's shorts and it's
anyone that's dating shorts.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
I can't answer any of these questions because I don't
know what's going through her mind. I will say this,
I think subconsciously she was a little bit intimidated by
the relationship that Schwartz and I had because it was real.
Everyone saw it like Schwartz and I had such a
great bond. You've seen Schwartzy and I together fun.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
You bring out like I could just tell like, you're
so authentically you with him, and he is so authentically
himself with you, and it's heartbreaking to see that, like
because no, you guys are compatible, but it just seems
like he's not quite in the headspace to be able

(35:00):
to commit to somebody, and it almost seems like he's ashamed.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, he kept me a secret for a long time,
and that was like really weird. But I didn't really
know how to handle that, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
And it's weird too because obviously I was a secret
for a long time. Yeah, and I thought maybe Schwartz
was like, you know, like it was a secret thing
with you.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Got it, Like we would go to the bar, we'd
hold hands, we make out in the corner, and then
we would like go on a date, and then all
of a sudden he would tell the press that we
weren't together right over a year.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
And we're seeing this play out on the show this season.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
We are seeing this play out in the show this season.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
You guys hang out so much. I've seen you guys
hang out so much. And then he's like, oh, Joe, like, no,
we're not together.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
But then in the same breath he'll say something like
I want to marry her. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
It's so confusing.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, it's confusing, But then it also makes sense because like,
is he's so wrapped up in the perception.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Of what he looks like yes, it Katie.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
That's like maybe his mindset is influenced by Katie because
Katie just has it out for you, right.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
It's all these questions that I don't know, and I
really don't care because at this point. What I do
care about, though, is when he says I don't want
to date somebody right now. But he was and now
he has a new girlfriend. That one is the messed
up part. That's so messed up to me.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
That makes me angry.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
It makes me very angry. But I will take care
of it on my own time with meditation and yoga
and all the things. That one really bothered me because
it's not correct, because if you don't want to be
with somebody, then you have to give the right answer.
But I will say this, I wish he would have
you know what, No, I wish nothing. I think he
did everything the right way. And Tom Schwartz and myself

(36:51):
are in a good place. We're not speaking, but I
wish him the best, and I think that I can
speak on behalf of myself and Tom Schwartz. We both
could have done so many things differently. We both made mistakes. However,
we both had the best times together and I want
him to really find happiness and I want him to

(37:13):
be the best version of himself. And you know, I
think that you can see that through the season, we
bring each other happiness big time. However, that's done, it's over,
and I need to move on. The moving on part
has been tough.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yeah, I think that's the heart big, hardest part, especially
when you're like thinking about all the good times that
you had together, yes, and all of those moments and
the memories and the photos and the everything, and like.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
The thought of like what could be the moments where
I would literally, you know, do the stupidest thing and
he'd be right there, and like, you know, we would
always be like you know what they say, and he'd
be like a rabbit decides to cross the road, and
I'd be like the truck decides to run over acorn,
like we would just we were so so at some point, Hey,

(38:04):
everybody out there, Aaron Rodgers, if you're listening, I will
date you.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
I don't know who Aaron Rodgers is. Who's Oh he's.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
A football player.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Oh cute.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
I feel like he would definitely be my type.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Hell yeah, let's make that happen. Okay, Oh my gosh. Yeah,
But I I it's hard.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
It's really hard because I've seen your guys' connection and
but then I've also seen the way that he talks
to you on the season, and it's it's like a misconnect.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
It's like a.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, it's like the cameras start rolling. I've always said that,
like if he just doesn't have a phone in his
hand and he wasn't on the show a perfect guy. Yeah,
you know, he's always on his phone and he's on
the show, And if he was just off the show
and would get into like a forest and go camping
or hunt, like, he would be my perfect person. But
it's all about you know, Yeah, the way that he's

(39:01):
been talking about me and to me is so disconnected
from what really did happen. And yeah, I know, I'm
sorry I'm being controversial here, but I will tell you this,
the producers on the show were the ones that really
helped me open up and be like, you need to
speak about this. And I wouldn't have done it if

(39:25):
it wasn't for that, I would have kept my mouth shut.
In which way, Hey, Joe, we're seeing a different side
of this that the other. How about you kind of
open up and like speak a little bit more and
it took me a minute, but they really really were

(39:46):
pushing to be kind to me because they saw before
I did and they didn't have to showcase that. But
they decided to be like, we're sick of this, We're
we're sick of the shorts. I think that they're my
They were sick of the Schwartz behavior and they were like,
let's actually show someone who's really blindsided. And the producers

(40:07):
and the people and the crew were all like, you know,
you have a safe space. And my confessionals and in
my interviews, I was so grateful that they helped me
through that. I don't think I would have been able
to be vocal about it if it wasn't for them.
So I give grace and I give thanks to people
in areas of my life that have helped me through

(40:29):
certain situations. And that was a big one for me.
I mean, I'm just saying, I mean, I that's my journey.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
I hear you.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
I think production does a really good job of being
observant of Peuple's behavior and seeing the miss.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Just like the disconnect between certain things that they observed
but then potentially not saying the actual but then they
didn't have to do that too. They could have easily
let me look like a fool, but they really were like, look, Joe,
without saying anything, we want you to talk. And I
was like, oh okay, and I felt heard. I mean,

(41:12):
I'll be honest, I would not have been able to
get to this place unless somebody pushed me to talk
about it. And not only that way, but also on
international television. I felt very lucky to be in a
place that no matter what transpired, no matter what was edited,
I felt, for once able to speak on what I

(41:34):
was feeling, what I was listening to, what I was
being told, all that, and I said it in front
of a camera, and I stuck to it, and I
got heartbroken. And I hope that maybe somebody out there's
you know, can relate to that.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
You filmed the reunion, Yes, do you think the cast
had a different perspective on your relationship with Schwartz after
seeing the way that it has been playing out.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Yes, at the reunion.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
When it.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Whether or not this is gonna get aired, I hope
it does. At the reunion, But when it came down
to it, the cast really was under the impression that
I was lying about my relationship with Schwartz, and Schwartz
was the one who was kind of keeping me behind
the scenes, and that makes sense from what Schwartz has
been exposing me as they were baffled. It was really

(42:32):
neat to see kind of like a gasp of like, oh,
you not only lied to Joe, but you lied to us,
and you also lied to Andy, and you lied to everybody,
and like, it's very clear throughout the season that you
guys were together, but we all thought that Joe was
the liar and when in reality, Joe was the one
who was being honest. And I don't remember what the

(42:54):
reaction was of Schwartz, and I don't know if it's
gonna air. I hope it. I really hope it does.
And you know, he apologize to me too, you know,
so it was kind of like a weird full circle moment.
I was shocked. I couldn't believe that even one of
the you know, seven eight people on these couches would
even listen to like my side of the story and

(43:15):
like listen. Honestly, it was almost like a reverse I mean,
I just wanted looking at all our faces and being like,
holy Molly, Joe isn't the bad person, and not that
Schwartz is a bad person, but no, it was a
big switch. Yeah yeah, reverse yeah, and like it made
me feel uncomfortable. It made Schwartz feel unomfortable because I

(43:37):
don't want to put Shorts in a bad position, but
it also made me feel kind of comfortable because people
were finally realizing that, you know, a, I'm not really
comfortable even being here, but I'm excited to be here
because I want to speak my truth at the reunion.
And when I did speak my truth, it was almost
like a big aha moment from the cast. I feel

(43:58):
like it did.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
You deserve it? Because if he was just honest and truthful, it.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Would have been great.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
It would have been you know, like oh maybe maybe
not even great, but it would have been like real,
and it wouldn't have put you in a position where
you are now looking like a crazy like crazy.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Crazy girl who's like crawling like after him every time,
like I'm just always following him. I'm always like trying
to like you know, I'm always at his ankle, like.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Not like inserting yourself in reality was the opposite.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
And then when that truth finally came out at the reunion,
everyone was like and they all just kind of like
looked at me differently. Yeah, you know, and I don't
care how they looked at me, but it was a
moment of like shock and and and you know, Sina
was giving me a tissue and I'm not sure if
it's gonna air, but I'm hoping so because then Schwartz
goes into the whole. She's a light of my life.

(44:50):
She's awesome, she's great, like I should have all the
And then it's like, so I'm having a hard time
between being like telling the truth, which is exactly what
I'm telling, and then also not ripping shorts apart because
he is a good person, but I think he needs
to work on himself. But that's not my place to
tell him. It's my place to work on myself and

(45:13):
talk about my experience. And I hope that he can
get to that place one day as well. Individually.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
That's such a mature perspective.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
It's true. I mean, this is what we're learning in
our life.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
This is what we've been talking about.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Like, yeah, and this is the problem with codependency too,
is like as I want just you want somebody to
help themselves.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Yeah, they will not know unless they want to.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
I wanted so badly to help him with so many
avenues and aspects of his life, and it was positive
and positive and positive, and he was so grateful and
all these things. But then it's like he, you know,
I realized I wasn't getting the same back, and I
wasn't able to get the same amount of love and
support back, and I'd have to ask for a lot
of that and he would give it to me. But

(45:56):
I realized that I had to really weigh the pros
and cons. And you know, to this day, if it
was me and Schwartz on an island somewhere, I would
be so happy because he wouldn't have his phone and
he wouldn't be on a TV show. He's such a
good person. It's just a matter of where he's at
in his life, and I hope that he's doing great.
And I also, you know, I mean, I'm not a

(46:16):
person to get mad at people for treating me poorly.
I'm a person that's just gonna work on myself and
make sure that I can just talk to my friends
and talk to them about my things that I'm having
going on in my life. I want to like get
through it on my own and I just think that
that should have been Yeah, I will, and I think
that that should have been given to me as well.
No one gave that grace to me though, so and
no one gave that to you either.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
So yeah, yeah, well we're resilient. Yeah, stick in with it.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
At the reunion, from what you did experience, and because
there's been rumblings of like.

Speaker 3 (47:03):
Oh, this was an explosive reunion.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Which by the way, I was only on. Well, I
was there from the chunk of time that I was on,
and then I had to wait like six hours and
then I had to go back to the like cheers
in with the sandwichh gosh, So like the six hours
in between, I was I'm not even I was like
playing angry birds. But yeah, there is a camera and
a video thing that you can watch, Yeah, as you're
in the green room, and I didn't see anything because

(47:30):
I was people were in and out and I wasn't
watching much of it, but it was from what I witnessed,
I should have watched more. Man, I'm just the worst.
I was like going outside and yeah, so sorry, yeah, rumblings.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Well, from what you saw, what was the dynamic between
Laala Sheena and Ariana.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Ariana said nothing to me. Katie wouldn't whatever. See I
don't even know they're dynamic well enough to even know.
I mean, it just seemed that like Laala was very
matter of fact, and she was really calling out people,
and she was calling out moments with Sena, and she
was calling out moments even with Katie, and she was
calling out moments with Ariana, and it felt like that

(48:12):
was kind of like, to be honest with you, why
wouldn't you, you know, do it in a nice concise way.
There wasn't any again when I was out there, it
was more of like, let's talk about Joe, and so
I was just like, oh crap. So I didn't really
get to see much of their dynamic. Yeah, because I
decided that I wasn't going to really watch.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Find the scenes because I'm assuming that I was a
topic of conversation.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
You were a massive topic of conversation. I almost like
wanted to drag out a chair at one point and
like put like your little face on it and put
like Raquel next to I was like, is.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
This a joke?

Speaker 1 (48:46):
But I couldn't tell anybody because Sheena was on my
left and Schwartzy was on my right, and I was like,
in my mind, I was I think I giggled to shorts.
I was like, we should bring out like a like
a you know, like a blanket, like just an empty
chair and.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Put like Raquel's.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
And he was like, you know, he was, he was
like all for it, you know. And then like and
then Nady was like, and Joe, let's talk about you again.
I'm like, oh, yes, oh yes, I'm here here.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
No, it really was. It was like, oh my god,
we need to move on. We do.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
It's wild. It's wild.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I mean it's not even on the fucking sorry I
on the reunion, on the show. I mean, it's just
on the internet.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
On the Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I mean it's just like you just you can't catch
a break. You just cannot catch a break. Even if
you want to eliminate yourself completely from everything, you still
are getting torn into this and and dragged into this.
And I really applaud you for being taking your platform
and make it into a positive thing, because being here
right now is really cathartic and positive for me. And

(49:47):
I'm just so proud of you.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Good.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Unfortunately, you're gonna be the topic of conversation for a
couple of more months, but.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
You know, yeah, yeah, fifteen months of shame.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
I know, it's like you're not even on the show anymore.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Yeah, okay, so you're obviously you're not close with Katie.
You're not you're not talking to Shorts.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
You and Tom Sanderbal.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
I still really care about him. We'll text here and there.
But I don't have anything against it besides the you know,
besides the.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Yeah, besides yeah, the video.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Obviously, Shina just wants to take off your hat at
all times. So we're not friends with her.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Well I'm not friends with really. Okay, so friends is
a general term for me for sure, right, okayeah, thank you.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Friendship Okay, what is friendship?

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Get? Because yeah, yeah, I don't know how you did this.
I mean I was very, very very it was. It
was a conundrum for my brain. I was like very
confused all the time. Listen, I was like, are weit?
I thought, no, oh what okay together? Nope? Not what?

Speaker 5 (50:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (50:52):
What about Ali?

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Because you guys had a moment where you got drinks
and she was asking about your relationship with Shorts.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yes, yes, and she was asking me about like what
I thought of him, And I said, look, I really
think that, you know, I was like, Ali, look, I
think that I really can see Tom Schwartz being somebody
somebody very similar to like my dad, because you know,
I mean, for me personally, I have a great dad.
And every girl wants to have a person in their
life as a partner that's similar to their father. If

(51:23):
you've had a good father, if you've had a good father, yes,
And I told her that and she agreed, And then
I think I got misconstrued because at some point somebody
said later at a Hotel Ziggy, oh, you have sex
with your dad or something, and like, I don't really
want to. Like that was like really messed up. What
was said was thank you, yes, good shorts.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
Yes, you said Schwortz, reminds me of my dad.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Yes, And then it was like misconstrued y to like
something incestual.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
These are five women that don't even know me as well.
So it was nice that Ali had dinner or you know,
drinks with me and had done my reading. But for
somebody to relay that information to five people around a
table at Hotel Ziggy and then speak on behalf of
like me and I'm not even located. I'm in the
corner plugging my ears. Yes, you know, so at that
point I didn't take it to heart because I don't

(52:11):
know these people well enough to care about what they say.
And I really do think that Ali kinda was kind
of like just you know, she just kind of said it,
and I didn't have a problem with her. What I
had a problem with was that afterwards, where Katie was
talking about making me uncomfortable. I mean, I already was uncomfortable,

(52:32):
and I just think that we should all date somebody
like our dad, if like our dads are like lovely humans,
and yeah, what's wrong with that?

Speaker 3 (52:41):
It's wrong with that. I felt like Ali was a
little bit catty.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
It seemed like she kind of knew what she was
doing with interpreting it and like feeding it to.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
The girls who were already talking crap about.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
You See, here's where I have a problem with this.
Talk is talk is talk is talk is talk. Okay,
So they're my been a moment or a motive or
subconsciously or consciously. I don't think she consciously tried to
hurt me in that moment. I don't know, but I
think that moments like that don't bother me as much
as moments where people kind of like target you for

(53:15):
being a certain way. Yeah, my dad wasn't happy about it,
but we also all move on and we also kind
of I think at the end of the day, what
bothered me the most, if we can really talk about this,
is at Hotel Ziggy, I was very uncomfortable and the
girls and I'm not gonna say Laala, and I'm not
gonna say Alie. I'm gonna say Sena, and I'm gonna
say Katie. I mean, my goodness, rat girl, I'm so

(53:39):
glad that she's uncomfortable. You know. Things like that are
the ones that keep me up at night and think about, Like,
not that I care, but I do care. I care
deeply about how somebody sees who I am, whether or
not they're a friend or not a friend. I've just
never been able to express this before until right now
and say, look, even if you don't know the people

(54:02):
that talk about you, you know, I wouldn't see it
if they didn't have a million followers, to be honest.
So I guess it's just a matter of like what
you're doing, Raquel, as you're using your platform for positivity.
I really just wish that would be the same thing
for them as well. I just don't get it, and
I will say it again, they don't know me well

(54:23):
enough to hate me, so benefit of the doubt.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
I think the girls are now trying to say that
you had a panic attack and that's why you left,
which I don't think is accurate.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Yes, it's not accurate. So at Hotel Ziggy that night,
I had had a conversation with Schwartz on the way
to the hotel Hotel Ziggy for James's you know, DJing thing,
and I got a phone call from I believe it
was my mom and there was some family matters that
had gone on, and I told Schwartz not to say anything,
and he didn't, And so I had already shown up

(54:53):
very scared, distraught, very distraught, and I was hoping that
everyone could get along, which I think that everybody should
good unless you have a reason to not. And it
just went the one hundred percent and eighty degrees the opposite.
Not even having a conversation with them, they immediately attacked.
Not they just had a It was almost like they
already had like a reason to hate me, bothout knowing

(55:17):
me and when you're there and you're sitting there and
you're listening to all these other people like talking about you,
and you just like all you want to do is
plug your ears and kind of go into like your
own little shell and like just like not, you know,
not hear it. I mean, I just I didn't want
to hear it. I had enough on my plate and
I just like don't have enough space in my brain
to talk about that stuff and like think about that
stuff that's not true. So like let them go and

(55:38):
talk crap about me, that's fine, But I'm gonna like
do this and I'm gonna like walk away, fight or flight.
I'm gonna fly. And I did, and it might have
cried I'm a cancer and I'm a very passionate person.
So I flew and I went and I had to
just get myself out of there. And it just doesn't
make sense for me to stick around. What am I
gonna go do? Like tap Sina on the shoulder and
be like, Hi, how are you again? Oh? Can you

(55:59):
stop talking bad about me? No? With those girls, they
will gang up on you. I want to get the
heck out, you know, it doesn't make sense for me
to even give any type of energy. I want to
give my energy to my dog. I want to give
energy to, you know, my mom at the time, you know,
I wanted to call my mom and get you know.
It's so it was nice that Schwartz was very protective
of me at the time. And you know, but I
will say that it was pretty obvious that they don't

(56:22):
give anybody the benefit of.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
They didn't seem like Brock was.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Brock was really kind. He was he was so kind.
He came and he followed me. It was really nice.
And even Jeremiah, the producer came and he gave me
a hug. It was really nice.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Yeah. Even Brock was like, Sina, yes stop, Joe.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Yes stop. Brock was like stop stop stop. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
In the episode that we saw this week, we see
you go with a group of friends to this singles Okay.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
So in the episode this week, I end up doing
Schwartz's hair blonde and he invites me to a single
the singles night, and I actually kind of invite myself
and he kind of goes.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Oh, okay, what are the coloredriss bands?

Speaker 1 (56:59):
So our wristbands are red means you're taken, green means
that you're single, and then yellow means that you don't
really know complicated.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
So on the way to the event, Schwartz and I
were in the same uber together, and of course we
went together, and we were there in the in the
mindset that we're going to go and support Sandoval, right
because he's single. Sorry to bring but you know, at
the moment, well whatever, So it's like, you know me
and and I was like, I'll just take along. Right
in the car ride, Schwartz was like, yeah, I'm gonna

(57:27):
be I'm gonna do like a yellow or a red.
And I was like, yeah, me too. In the second
he slaps on that green wrist band, I thought, hmm,
I guess I'll slap on a green wristband as.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Well, because when he said I'm gonna do yellow or
red that was off camera, correct.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Correct, it was on the way to the uber, off camera,
of course. And yes, yes. And so we get there
and I'm thinking, oh, then I'm totally okay with this.
We're just gonna do I mean, the kind of was
a little bit irritated that he wanted to do like
a yellow but not a red. But I was like, okay,
well whatever one. It is like we'll just you know,
go through the night to be fine. We're just here
to supports Sandoval and like be there for him in

(58:02):
a single night. And so then at that moment, I
remember sitting there and he slept on a green wristband,
and I remember thinking I just couldn't even believe it.
And then I decided that I was going to slep
on a green wristband as well, because I didn't really
know how to navigate this. And then we all got
up and we started mingling, and I had to go
to the bathroom, and when I came back out, he
was making out with somebody. But I didn't see it,

(58:24):
but he was.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
Like talking to this girl, and you saw him talking.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
To her, Yes, I saw him talking to her. She
was trying to take his hat. The hat that she
was trying to take off of his head in this
episode was a very special hat that his dad had
given him. And that's why I went in and I
decided to be kind of like a mom or like
a little like bit of a protective person, and I said, look, Schwartz,
are you sure that you want to give that hat away?
And he was like, yeah, yeah, I got more of
my storage unit. And I was like, no, you don't

(58:47):
because I knew that he didn't. And then he goes, well,
can you give that back to me to the girl,
and I was like, I did my work right, I
did what I had to do. Whether or not he
gets a hat back, okay, So then I walked away.
What you don't see is that Schwartz and I go
to the bar and we were deciding to have a shot.
And then I come back and the girl's wearing the
hat and he's trying to get the hat back, and

(59:10):
I'm like, well, I did what I did. Yeah, And
I look at how he's very flirtatious and he's wearing
the green wristband and I'm just putting two and two
together and I'm thinking, oh, no, no, no, no, no,
no no. So I leave before he makes out with
this girl. So I decided to, you know, to go,
and I do the best way that I can, which

(59:34):
is kindly say like, hey, I'll see you later. I left,
and yeah, I mean, at the end of the day,
I can only control my actions. I mean, it was
tough to watch. But then I found out later months
later when I did my confessionals and interviews, they told
me that he made out with somebody I never knew that.
He came home, and by home I mean in his

(59:54):
apartment that night, and I was sleeping in my bedroom,
you know, because I had to do hair. This is
this is also something I want to clear up really quickly.
I have a lot of clients in burbanks, so it's
easy for me to sleep in his in his second bedroom.
But at the time we were dating, so wherever bedroom
we wanted to sleep, and it wasn't a big deal.

(01:00:14):
But I went home and he came home and I
was like, did you have a good night? And he
was like yeah, And I was like, did you did
you lock you know me, I'm like, did you lock
lips with that? Did you smooch? And he's like no, no, nothing, nothing, nothing,
And I had already taken.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Out the dogs.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
I was able to, like, you know, lock up the apartment.
I was able to just and I was finally ready
to like shower and go to bed, and he comes
in and he's just like wasted, and I'm like okay.
And then I don't find out until later that it's
like the fourteenthly that he's told me about, you know,
I found out later, and then I now find out
that he's made out with somebody, and I don't care

(01:00:49):
if it's meant to be or not meant to be.
I think that he just likes to make out with
people and he gets really drunk. Yeah, so that's that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
That's so hard, and it's actually crazy to like not
knowing until production tells you, Like, oh, by.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
The way, why can't Schwartz tell me that?

Speaker 5 (01:01:10):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
It's like, well, if mind blowing on camera then because
did they capture it?

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Yeah, yeah, they got it on.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Came came home that night and he told me that
he didn't make out with anybody, So, like the production
told me over him, he knew also that you were
going to find out eventually, but he didn't have enough
integrity to tell you himself.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
There it is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
I'm not trying to make somebody out to be the
bad person or anything, because but I will say this,
like the fact that production it'd be like not had to,
but they I mean, I remember like looking at Natalie
and she was like, just want to let you know.
I'm not really supposed to tell you this, but like
you know, Schwartz did make up with somebody that night,
and I was like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
What, geez, Okay, I want to talk about this for
a second. Yeah, tell me, because you've called me a
few times like struggling trying to get over Schwartz, and
you asked me like, how did I do it?

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
How did I get over Sandibal?

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
I always say in four months behind you, And I
was like, it was very difficult.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
It was so hard, like I was so hung up
on it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Yeah, I gave you advice that one of my therapists
asked me to do.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
She was like, why don't you create a fantasy busters list?
And I tell Joe this. She's like, what a what list?
A what Busters list? And I'm like, okay, Well, basically,
it's a list of.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Like, yes, all of the facts that you know for sure,
things that you've witnessed that are undeniable, of like the
red flags of things that the situations that they put
you through, the things that like you know, without a doubt,
the boundaries that were crossed.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
It never crossed your mind until you decided to have
somebody like a friend tell you, like, maybe write them down. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
So when you write them down and you see this list, yes,
it is so it pulls you out of denial, like
it brings you into reality because you're not living in
this fantasy of who you want this person to be.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
I mean, he never went to my basketball games. He
never came and watched me surf. He never you know,
things like that. He never wanted to go paddleboarding with
me on the West Side. Schwartz never wanted to even
come to the West Side. I always had to go
to I mean, things that I loved. He just didn't care,
you know, he just kinda I mean, I just I
was assuming that. I mean I even got him a
basketball jersey for the for the you know, the team

(01:03:26):
the basketball league that I'm in, and I got Schwartz
with my number on the back. You know, I'm number eight.
Love you, Kobe. And he never went to one game.
There was no I mean, it was like he wanted
to just kind of keep me into this little tiny
and it was all for show for him. I mean,
he just wanted to be on camera. It wasn't even like.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
And correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
But I think part of the reason why you chose
to do Vander pump Roules Season eleven was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Because of Schwartz.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
He asked you to correct if Vander pump Roules does
a season twelve and they ask you to go back.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Would you do another season?

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Yes? For one million dollars. I had a great adventure.
It was awesome. I also will say, gosh, darn it,
you'll learn a lot kids, You'll learn a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
But I'm focused on my my Joe my gosh hats
and I'm focused on my hair business. And I'm focused
on my friendships and my family. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Do you want people to follow you? Yeah, Joe my gosh,
at Joe my gosh. Yeah, at Jo m y gush
that Instagram. That's all I have and it's not Joe,
it's just Jo.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Do you think that there's going to be another season?

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Yeah? I think so.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
I think so too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
I do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
I think maybe they'll have one more season because the
ratings are good.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Yeah. Well, thanks to you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
You're welcome, and.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Thank thank you so much for listening to Rachel Goes
grog Follow us on and Instagram and TikTok for exclusive
video content at Rachel ghos Rogue Podcast