August 15, 2024 • 23 mins
Rachel opens up about her former fiancé James Kennedy, and shares what their relationship was really like in the early stages behind the doors of SUR.
She also reflects what she was feeling in Andy Cohen’s “WWHL” hot seat for the first time as she endured an on-the-spot grilling about Kennedy’s cheating way before she believed it to be real.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Rachel gos Rogue.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Rachel Goes Growth. I'm your host,
Rachel Savanna Levis, and we are back with another segment
of Rachel's reflections. In this series, I take you back
to some of the most pivotal moments of my life
and dive into what was really going on behind the scenes. Today,
(00:30):
we're recapping one of my Instagram photos from February twenty nineteen.
We're talking about my selfie from my first appearance on
Watch What Happens Live. I have my producer from iHeart
with me to ask me some questions so we can
dive into this topic.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
So, first I want to know if you remember taking
this photo.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Do you remember the moment you snapped it?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, I do. I remember taking the selfie and I
was on I think it was a couch with James
and Billy Lee and Andy Cohen was interviewing us for
Watch What Happens Live? So yeah, I do remember taking
the photo and.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
So putting yourself back in that moment, do you remember
what you were feeling. Were you excited to be there,
were you nervous since this was your first time? Did
you ask any of your other cast members for any
sort of like advice doing the show.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It was excited. Yeah, it was my first Watch What
Happens Live appearance, so it was new for me and
I probably asked advice from Sheena, and I think I
I prepped by watching some of the Watch What Happens
Live episodes because at this time I was up in
(01:46):
Sonama County working on my degree and James and I
were doing long distance.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So it's kind of a red.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Of passage, I feel like for anyone who's Unbravo to
be on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
So did you feel any pressure walking in that day?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, of course, like I get nervous before doing any
type of appearance typically, especially back then when I was
still new to the reality TV gig. Yeah, I definitely
was nervous, but like also excited, like I felt like
it was an honor to be there, and I wanted
(02:23):
to look nice and I splurged on a jumpsuit from
Revolve and I wanted to look the best I could look.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And so you said James was with you for this appearance.
Did he kind of like comfort you at all? Did
he walk you through anything? You think it was more
comforting having him there for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
At that time, he was a big support system for
me and encouraging and he always had like this, uh
this energy that was easy to feed off of and
get hyped about it.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Which is interesting because I feel like at this tape.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
They like really bombarded you and your whole relationship with James.
There was literally like an entire montage and Andy showed
you of clips from VPR and it was all about James,
James cheating on you. All of the cast members kind
of just like throwing this at you, and you really
defended him in this episode. Tell me what you remember
about that and looking back on it, how you feel now.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, So, I honestly, like in my heart, I did
not believe that James is cheating on me, Like I
really didn't think that. And I think maybe there there
was some naivete what that and maybe my own denial
with that because so many people were saying that he
(03:46):
was cheating on me, and I didn't know if the
intentions were pure, because why would you bring that up
on camera? You know, like these girls telling me that
they with James, they weren't seeking me out to tell
me this out of the kindness of their hearts. They
were telling me when they were miked up and when
(04:10):
cameras were up and rolling and the lights were on.
So it just made it a little bit questionable, like okay,
like why why are you telling me you guys had
a thing, or like we're seeing each other while James
and I were together. Come to find out later that
(04:30):
James definitely did cheat on me with those two girls.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
But that just tells me that these two.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Things like a denial of wanting to believe that it
was true. Also, the way that James treated me was
like we facetimed every single day, and we talked every
single day, and we always planned a trip to see
each other because we were long distance and the most
we would go without seeing each other was three weeks.
I think it was like me not suspecting that he could.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Well, this was really early on in your relationship with
James as well, so I feel like those early moments
in relationships are such honeymoon phases.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, like the first two months that we were dating,
you know, like we didn't put a label on it necessarily.
It was like, okay, like let's let's try this out
and see how it goes. So I did find out
later that it was like during it was probably during
those first few months, and so it was almost like
(05:33):
easier to forgive him because it was like, well, we
weren't really set and committed the way that we were
later later down the line.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
I will say in the episode, you said something along
the lines of like you don't have like cold hard
data to prove that he's.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Cheating on you.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
I'm wondering you say that you found out later that
he was cheating on.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
You, Like, what was it that it took to convince you?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Later down the line, it took a conversation off camera.
I remember going into sir one day, like maybe a
year later, and either Gigi or Ellie. I think it
was Gig that came out to me and apologized to me.
And she wasn't specific about what her apology was about.
(06:17):
She didn't say I'm sorry for cheating, and she also
didn't say I'm sorry for bringing that up on camera.
She just said like I'm sorry, and maybe I should
have asked for more clarity, but like in that moment,
it was like, oh, okay, I think it's just realizing
that James isn't he's not a fully honest person, and
(06:41):
realizing also when I was told that Lala and James
got together while James and I were together, my first thought,
my first immediate reaction was like, no, that's not true.
And I think I denied it because I was like, what, like,
(07:05):
is this really being brought up now after the fact,
Like James and I aren't even together, So what's the
point of bringing it up now if it's not just
for a storyline? And it seemed like Lala didn't really
have much else to bring to the story besides rehashing
old stuff and potentially making up something that didn't actually happen.
(07:25):
When I confronted James about it on camera, which you
saw season tent, he admitted to it. And I think
the only reason why he admitted to it is because
Lala confronted him about it on camera and he kind
of had it just like play it off, and so
he couldn't just say like no, But in the past
(07:48):
he did deny it completely, So I think just like
having more data points and realizing that he really is
capable of doing that.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
And so I have to ask too, when you're on
watch What Happens Live, do they prep you at all
on what your episode's going to look like, like, did
you have any idea walking in that that was going
to be presented to you.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
No, So we get the episode beforehand, so like earlier
that week, we'll get episode to view and then they
air it that night, So when you're in the holding
room backstage, they'll play it on the TV and typically
you just know that they'll be asking questions about the
(08:33):
episode or about the things leading up to that episode.
But typically they'll schedule the main person or watch what
happens live on an episode where something something big happens
in their story for that season.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
So you kind of had an idea you would have
to talk about this, but or no, like it was
just going in blind.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I just kind of went in blind. This is my
first experience. Yeah, I didn't have anything really to prep me.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
So can you tell me what that's like, you know,
being in the hot seat in front of Andy, next
to the guy that he's you know, basically accusing of
cheating on you. What does that feel like to have
to answer on live television?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
The most natural reaction when being accused of Okay, this
guy is cheating on you is probably being defensive, just naturally,
and I wanted to support him, like I'm I'm going
back to the same hotel room as him at the
end of the night, So you know, like, why would
(09:38):
I put myself in a position where I'm risking something?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Did you feel like you didn't want to like embarrass
him on live TV? Did you feel like an obligation
to defend him?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, I felt like as a partner, that's kind of
like expected, like I would expect my partner to defend
me if the rumor was circulating and it wasn't true,
And at that time, I didn't have really clear reason
to believe that it was true, So it was like,
why play into that if there's no reason?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Too totally, so.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
You felt good about it. So what was that conversation
like when you guys left the show? Was there any
talk of it after between you and James?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I think he was pretty dismissive about it and just
acted like it really didn't matter, like it didn't face
him and so it didn't face me.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Have you watched that episode back since being on No
how CO.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I do you remember? I do remember being asked like, oh,
is James going to be on his best behavior tonight?
Like out of a scale of one to ten, like
how well behaved is James going to be tonight? And
I was like a ten because like, I don't know automatically,
I'm like, yeah, like I support him. I think that
(11:02):
he's you know, at that time, I really did believe
in his potential, and I really did want him to
learn and grow and evolve as a person, and I
believed that I could help him do that. I know now, like,
that's not a healthy place to be in a relationship.
(11:23):
You don't want to be in love with the potential
of somebody. I learned now that you have to just
accept that person for exactly who they are. If you're
trying to change them, then that's that's not a healthy relationship.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Good point. What else do you remember from that episode?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I remember being with Billy Lee and James. Billy and
I were always like very kind to each other, very
supportive of one another, and I think in a way
like James's kind of the outcast of the group for
quite some time, and Billy Lee was also the outcast
(12:12):
of the group, so in a way it was kind
of like, oh, okay, we're like you know, the miss
the Misfits episode or like the Big Crew episode. I
don't know, of course, we're aware of that, but I
think we just like make the most of it and
support each other the best we could totally.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
How many times have you been on after this first time?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Do you think like this first time being on? Was
it the scariest time for you? Were you the most excited?
How did it feel for the first.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, I would say so. I think it was a
new environment, a new situation, And so I think with
time and repetition, because I kept going back, you start
feeling more comfortable in the space, and you start knowing
(13:09):
the routine, and you have like your own hair and
makeup team out there, and you start building relationships with
production behind the scenes and seeing familiar faces, so it
gets more familiar as time goes on.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
So yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Would say the first time was probably the most nerve wracking.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
James also addressed his most regrettable comment during that episode.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Do you remember what it was?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
He said, I regret my behavior of how I spoke
at Pride, something along those lines. So I interpreted that
as you know, and this is me in that moment.
He's acknowledging it and he he regrets it, so he
doesn't intend on speaking to me that way again. And
(14:02):
I think for him saying like, there's no apology letters
going out, it doesn't need to be a more dramatic
thing than just recognizing that how he spoke to me
was wrong and correcting his behavior going forward. So I
didn't expect an apology letter from my boyfriend at that time.
(14:24):
I just expected a change in behavior.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
And speaking of regret, do you ever look back on
any of the times you've ever been on the show
and regret what you said?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I mean, being on Life TV is hard.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
You're on the spot, you're in front of Andy Cohen,
You're forced to make these comments. Do you ever regret
anything that you said?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I'm sure I do.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I mean, I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I don't go back and torture myself that I really
doesn't keep you up at night. No, it doesn't keep
me up at night because I know who I am now,
and I know the person that I am now, and
I'm much more confident in myself now, and I'm not
that same person. It's very clear that I'm not the
same person that I was back then. So I don't
(15:08):
necessarily like regret anything that I said, although like being
on live TVs very risky and yeah, it's not like
necessarily a safe place to be, but I also don't
cuss that much. So and the reason why I bring
(15:29):
that up is because I'm thinking of when James and
Laala went on Watch What Happens Live the time before
this recording. They were cussing a lot, kind of like
beating off of each other's energy, and Andy was getting
really mad because you can't cuss on life TV.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
And I think too, you've grown a lot, as you said,
your mental state has changed a lot. Deed, doing this
live on TV and being able to kind of like
handle yourself in these moments. What did it teach you
about yourself and what you were able to handle by
doing the show? I think on live TV and doing
red carpets and doing live interviews like that, it's like
(16:09):
you don't have time to dub yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
You've just got to be there and answer the question
and the best way that you can, in the most
concise way that you can.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Do you recognize the girl in that first Watch What
Happens Live episode?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Do you still see her in you now?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Or do you feel completely detached? Oh, totally. I totally
see her. Yeah, she's there, She's there with me, just
the person that I am now as someone who is
more sure of herself and is willing to go to
great lengths to protect myself. I have a lot more
(16:50):
boundaries now and have a very clear idea of what
healthy relationship is. And the only way I could get
to this point is experiencing what I went through. And
I think because I have a lot of patience, it
is a blessing and a curse because I would put
(17:11):
up with things that typically people would never put up with.
So I think for a long time I was very misunderstood.
It's easy to judge someone on the outside looking in
and thinking like, oh, they either have no self respect,
which possibly could be true, or I just was there
(17:33):
for the fame, which was not the case. I really
was there for the challenge and also to want to
better Jinks, which is not a healthy thing either. So
it's just reframing, like how I prioritize things moving forward
to keep me in a healthier headspace.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Do you think things would have been different for you if,
you know, especially in that episode, if you didn't go
with James, if you maybe had the opportunity to do
it on your own without him.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, probably.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, I don't think that that's realistic because.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
That's kind of how you were introduced, was with him.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, because James is more of a He was an
outcast and he was more of the the role character
and I was just his girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
So you know, like I was like a.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Level below that. So and no actual Bravo world would
I be going on a watch What Happens Live interview
without him? But if that were the case, yeah, I
think I may.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Have like opened up a little bit more honestly and authentically.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Do you think you still would have said the same
things and defended him the same way if he wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I do remember like defending him in the interviews where
I would sit down and talk to the producer in
that chair and they'll insert those segments throughout the series,
and I would defend him, and then you know, the
producer would bring up certain points and then you know,
(19:22):
I'd get pretty real and honest and say how I
was feeling when I had those conversations. It would out
James's behavior, but I always came back to a place
of understanding, maybe to a fault at that time, I
really wanted to be with him.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
So looking back at that photo that you posted on
that first day, what would you tell that girl, that
smiling girl in the photo, if you had a second
to kind of like sit with her and give her advice,
what would you say now?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I would say that you're so beautiful and you deserve
love and and nothing short of what you deserve. Don't
let other people's criticism get in the way of how
you view yourself because you're just a little light in
this world. And don't ever think it, like, be confident
(20:16):
in who you are and I think I was doing
my best at the time. Don't put up with the
b Yes, there's no reason too. You deserve happy, healthy
relationships and friendships. Don't doubt that because you really do
deserve that.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Looking at this episode and how it all panned out,
and the way people were warning you and coming to you,
and like you later finding out the evidence and it
was being true. Do you think you've talked about this
before on other episodes, about how you're a pretty trusting person.
You do give people like the benefit of the doubt
at the beginning. Do you think hindsight has kind of
changed that about you? Do you think you're still, as
(20:55):
you know, giving a person the benefit of the doubt
on the front end until they prove themselves wrong, or
do you think you take these warnings a little bit
more seriously though?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, I take warnings a lot more seriously now, and
I know my trusted people to listen to what they
have to say. And that's probably the tricky thing too.
Like that time, I have a lot of like trusted
people that I could take their input and take it
to heart, except for my parents, who I completely ignored
(21:26):
their warnings. But now I definitely do take what people
say a lot more seriously and like dig in a
little bit deeper. I'll still give people the benefit of
the doubt because that's just who I am. Like, I
(21:46):
am a very trusting person and I think a certain way,
so I just displct that other people do too. But
it takes a lot less for me to change my
mind about somebody's character than it used to.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
I think it's really interesting, just like from an outsider's perspective, Rachel,
because like when I go back and I watch old
clips or old moments, I'm like, this feels like such
a different person. How do you feel watching this older
version of you, because to me, you seem so different.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I see the growth just from the past year, and
maybe it's because I've gotten a lot of help in
this past year, but like from then to now, each year,
I've grown in ways that I've been searching to grow.
And like that was the whole point of me joining
(22:36):
the show because I knew it would put me in
a position where I would have to grow. And I
think that's like the beauty of it, because I just
know that I need that big of a challenge in
order to push myself and to step up to the
plate in the way that I want to. Yeah, of
(22:57):
course I feel completely different because I am. My thought
process is completely different, my values are completely different. The
way I approach certain situations, the way I communicate is
completely different. Yeah, I completely have evolved. Thank you so
(23:18):
much for.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Listening to Rachel Goes Rogue.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Follow us on
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Instagram and TikTok for exclusive video content at Rachel gos
Rogue Podcast.
This is Rachel gos Rogue.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Rachel Goes Growth. I'm your host,
Rachel Savanna Levis, and we are back with another segment
of Rachel's reflections. In this series, I take you back
to some of the most pivotal moments of my life
and dive into what was really going on behind the scenes. Today,
(00:30):
we're recapping one of my Instagram photos from February twenty nineteen.
We're talking about my selfie from my first appearance on
Watch What Happens Live. I have my producer from iHeart
with me to ask me some questions so we can
dive into this topic.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
So, first I want to know if you remember taking
this photo.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Do you remember the moment you snapped it?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, I do. I remember taking the selfie and I
was on I think it was a couch with James
and Billy Lee and Andy Cohen was interviewing us for
Watch What Happens Live? So yeah, I do remember taking
the photo and.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
So putting yourself back in that moment, do you remember
what you were feeling. Were you excited to be there,
were you nervous since this was your first time? Did
you ask any of your other cast members for any
sort of like advice doing the show.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It was excited. Yeah, it was my first Watch What
Happens Live appearance, so it was new for me and
I probably asked advice from Sheena, and I think I
I prepped by watching some of the Watch What Happens
Live episodes because at this time I was up in
(01:46):
Sonama County working on my degree and James and I
were doing long distance.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So it's kind of a red.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Of passage, I feel like for anyone who's Unbravo to
be on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
So did you feel any pressure walking in that day?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, of course, like I get nervous before doing any
type of appearance typically, especially back then when I was
still new to the reality TV gig. Yeah, I definitely
was nervous, but like also excited, like I felt like
it was an honor to be there, and I wanted
(02:23):
to look nice and I splurged on a jumpsuit from
Revolve and I wanted to look the best I could look.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And so you said James was with you for this appearance.
Did he kind of like comfort you at all? Did
he walk you through anything? You think it was more
comforting having him there for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
At that time, he was a big support system for
me and encouraging and he always had like this, uh
this energy that was easy to feed off of and
get hyped about it.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Which is interesting because I feel like at this tape.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
They like really bombarded you and your whole relationship with James.
There was literally like an entire montage and Andy showed
you of clips from VPR and it was all about James,
James cheating on you. All of the cast members kind
of just like throwing this at you, and you really
defended him in this episode. Tell me what you remember
about that and looking back on it, how you feel now.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, So, I honestly, like in my heart, I did
not believe that James is cheating on me, Like I
really didn't think that. And I think maybe there there
was some naivete what that and maybe my own denial
with that because so many people were saying that he
(03:46):
was cheating on me, and I didn't know if the
intentions were pure, because why would you bring that up
on camera? You know, like these girls telling me that
they with James, they weren't seeking me out to tell
me this out of the kindness of their hearts. They
were telling me when they were miked up and when
(04:10):
cameras were up and rolling and the lights were on.
So it just made it a little bit questionable, like okay,
like why why are you telling me you guys had
a thing, or like we're seeing each other while James
and I were together. Come to find out later that
(04:30):
James definitely did cheat on me with those two girls.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
But that just tells me that these two.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Things like a denial of wanting to believe that it
was true. Also, the way that James treated me was
like we facetimed every single day, and we talked every
single day, and we always planned a trip to see
each other because we were long distance and the most
we would go without seeing each other was three weeks.
I think it was like me not suspecting that he could.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Well, this was really early on in your relationship with
James as well, so I feel like those early moments
in relationships are such honeymoon phases.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, like the first two months that we were dating,
you know, like we didn't put a label on it necessarily.
It was like, okay, like let's let's try this out
and see how it goes. So I did find out
later that it was like during it was probably during
those first few months, and so it was almost like
(05:33):
easier to forgive him because it was like, well, we
weren't really set and committed the way that we were
later later down the line.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
I will say in the episode, you said something along
the lines of like you don't have like cold hard
data to prove that he's.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Cheating on you.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
I'm wondering you say that you found out later that
he was cheating on.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
You, Like, what was it that it took to convince you?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Later down the line, it took a conversation off camera.
I remember going into sir one day, like maybe a
year later, and either Gigi or Ellie. I think it
was Gig that came out to me and apologized to me.
And she wasn't specific about what her apology was about.
(06:17):
She didn't say I'm sorry for cheating, and she also
didn't say I'm sorry for bringing that up on camera.
She just said like I'm sorry, and maybe I should
have asked for more clarity, but like in that moment,
it was like, oh, okay, I think it's just realizing
that James isn't he's not a fully honest person, and
(06:41):
realizing also when I was told that Lala and James
got together while James and I were together, my first thought,
my first immediate reaction was like, no, that's not true.
And I think I denied it because I was like, what, like,
(07:05):
is this really being brought up now after the fact,
Like James and I aren't even together, So what's the
point of bringing it up now if it's not just
for a storyline? And it seemed like Lala didn't really
have much else to bring to the story besides rehashing
old stuff and potentially making up something that didn't actually happen.
(07:25):
When I confronted James about it on camera, which you
saw season tent, he admitted to it. And I think
the only reason why he admitted to it is because
Lala confronted him about it on camera and he kind
of had it just like play it off, and so
he couldn't just say like no, But in the past
(07:48):
he did deny it completely, So I think just like
having more data points and realizing that he really is
capable of doing that.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
And so I have to ask too, when you're on
watch What Happens Live, do they prep you at all
on what your episode's going to look like, like, did
you have any idea walking in that that was going
to be presented to you.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
No, So we get the episode beforehand, so like earlier
that week, we'll get episode to view and then they
air it that night, So when you're in the holding
room backstage, they'll play it on the TV and typically
you just know that they'll be asking questions about the
(08:33):
episode or about the things leading up to that episode.
But typically they'll schedule the main person or watch what
happens live on an episode where something something big happens
in their story for that season.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
So you kind of had an idea you would have
to talk about this, but or no, like it was
just going in blind.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I just kind of went in blind. This is my
first experience. Yeah, I didn't have anything really to prep me.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
So can you tell me what that's like, you know,
being in the hot seat in front of Andy, next
to the guy that he's you know, basically accusing of
cheating on you. What does that feel like to have
to answer on live television?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
The most natural reaction when being accused of Okay, this
guy is cheating on you is probably being defensive, just naturally,
and I wanted to support him, like I'm I'm going
back to the same hotel room as him at the
end of the night, So you know, like, why would
(09:38):
I put myself in a position where I'm risking something?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Did you feel like you didn't want to like embarrass
him on live TV? Did you feel like an obligation
to defend him?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, I felt like as a partner, that's kind of
like expected, like I would expect my partner to defend
me if the rumor was circulating and it wasn't true,
And at that time, I didn't have really clear reason
to believe that it was true, So it was like,
why play into that if there's no reason?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Too totally, so.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
You felt good about it. So what was that conversation
like when you guys left the show? Was there any
talk of it after between you and James?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I think he was pretty dismissive about it and just
acted like it really didn't matter, like it didn't face
him and so it didn't face me.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Have you watched that episode back since being on No
how CO.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I do you remember? I do remember being asked like, oh,
is James going to be on his best behavior tonight?
Like out of a scale of one to ten, like
how well behaved is James going to be tonight? And
I was like a ten because like, I don't know automatically,
I'm like, yeah, like I support him. I think that
(11:02):
he's you know, at that time, I really did believe
in his potential, and I really did want him to
learn and grow and evolve as a person, and I
believed that I could help him do that. I know now, like,
that's not a healthy place to be in a relationship.
(11:23):
You don't want to be in love with the potential
of somebody. I learned now that you have to just
accept that person for exactly who they are. If you're
trying to change them, then that's that's not a healthy relationship.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Good point. What else do you remember from that episode?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I remember being with Billy Lee and James. Billy and
I were always like very kind to each other, very
supportive of one another, and I think in a way
like James's kind of the outcast of the group for
quite some time, and Billy Lee was also the outcast
(12:12):
of the group, so in a way it was kind
of like, oh, okay, we're like you know, the miss
the Misfits episode or like the Big Crew episode. I
don't know, of course, we're aware of that, but I
think we just like make the most of it and
support each other the best we could totally.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
How many times have you been on after this first time?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Do you think like this first time being on? Was
it the scariest time for you? Were you the most excited?
How did it feel for the first.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, I would say so. I think it was a
new environment, a new situation, And so I think with
time and repetition, because I kept going back, you start
feeling more comfortable in the space, and you start knowing
(13:09):
the routine, and you have like your own hair and
makeup team out there, and you start building relationships with
production behind the scenes and seeing familiar faces, so it
gets more familiar as time goes on.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
So yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Would say the first time was probably the most nerve wracking.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
James also addressed his most regrettable comment during that episode.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Do you remember what it was?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
He said, I regret my behavior of how I spoke
at Pride, something along those lines. So I interpreted that
as you know, and this is me in that moment.
He's acknowledging it and he he regrets it, so he
doesn't intend on speaking to me that way again. And
(14:02):
I think for him saying like, there's no apology letters
going out, it doesn't need to be a more dramatic
thing than just recognizing that how he spoke to me
was wrong and correcting his behavior going forward. So I
didn't expect an apology letter from my boyfriend at that time.
(14:24):
I just expected a change in behavior.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
And speaking of regret, do you ever look back on
any of the times you've ever been on the show
and regret what you said?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I mean, being on Life TV is hard.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
You're on the spot, you're in front of Andy Cohen,
You're forced to make these comments. Do you ever regret
anything that you said?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I'm sure I do.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I mean, I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I don't go back and torture myself that I really
doesn't keep you up at night. No, it doesn't keep
me up at night because I know who I am now,
and I know the person that I am now, and
I'm much more confident in myself now, and I'm not
that same person. It's very clear that I'm not the
same person that I was back then. So I don't
(15:08):
necessarily like regret anything that I said, although like being
on live TVs very risky and yeah, it's not like
necessarily a safe place to be, but I also don't
cuss that much. So and the reason why I bring
(15:29):
that up is because I'm thinking of when James and
Laala went on Watch What Happens Live the time before
this recording. They were cussing a lot, kind of like
beating off of each other's energy, and Andy was getting
really mad because you can't cuss on life TV.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
And I think too, you've grown a lot, as you said,
your mental state has changed a lot. Deed, doing this
live on TV and being able to kind of like
handle yourself in these moments. What did it teach you
about yourself and what you were able to handle by
doing the show? I think on live TV and doing
red carpets and doing live interviews like that, it's like
(16:09):
you don't have time to dub yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
You've just got to be there and answer the question
and the best way that you can, in the most
concise way that you can.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Do you recognize the girl in that first Watch What
Happens Live episode?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Do you still see her in you now?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Or do you feel completely detached? Oh, totally. I totally
see her. Yeah, she's there, She's there with me, just
the person that I am now as someone who is
more sure of herself and is willing to go to
great lengths to protect myself. I have a lot more
(16:50):
boundaries now and have a very clear idea of what
healthy relationship is. And the only way I could get
to this point is experiencing what I went through. And
I think because I have a lot of patience, it
is a blessing and a curse because I would put
(17:11):
up with things that typically people would never put up with.
So I think for a long time I was very misunderstood.
It's easy to judge someone on the outside looking in
and thinking like, oh, they either have no self respect,
which possibly could be true, or I just was there
(17:33):
for the fame, which was not the case. I really
was there for the challenge and also to want to
better Jinks, which is not a healthy thing either. So
it's just reframing, like how I prioritize things moving forward
to keep me in a healthier headspace.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Do you think things would have been different for you if,
you know, especially in that episode, if you didn't go
with James, if you maybe had the opportunity to do
it on your own without him.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, probably.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, I don't think that that's realistic because.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
That's kind of how you were introduced, was with him.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, because James is more of a He was an
outcast and he was more of the the role character
and I was just his girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
So you know, like I was like a.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Level below that. So and no actual Bravo world would
I be going on a watch What Happens Live interview
without him? But if that were the case, yeah, I
think I may.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Have like opened up a little bit more honestly and authentically.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Do you think you still would have said the same
things and defended him the same way if he wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I do remember like defending him in the interviews where
I would sit down and talk to the producer in
that chair and they'll insert those segments throughout the series,
and I would defend him, and then you know, the
producer would bring up certain points and then you know,
(19:22):
I'd get pretty real and honest and say how I
was feeling when I had those conversations. It would out
James's behavior, but I always came back to a place
of understanding, maybe to a fault at that time, I
really wanted to be with him.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
So looking back at that photo that you posted on
that first day, what would you tell that girl, that
smiling girl in the photo, if you had a second
to kind of like sit with her and give her advice,
what would you say now?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I would say that you're so beautiful and you deserve
love and and nothing short of what you deserve. Don't
let other people's criticism get in the way of how
you view yourself because you're just a little light in
this world. And don't ever think it, like, be confident
(20:16):
in who you are and I think I was doing
my best at the time. Don't put up with the
b Yes, there's no reason too. You deserve happy, healthy
relationships and friendships. Don't doubt that because you really do
deserve that.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Looking at this episode and how it all panned out,
and the way people were warning you and coming to you,
and like you later finding out the evidence and it
was being true. Do you think you've talked about this
before on other episodes, about how you're a pretty trusting person.
You do give people like the benefit of the doubt
at the beginning. Do you think hindsight has kind of
changed that about you? Do you think you're still, as
(20:55):
you know, giving a person the benefit of the doubt
on the front end until they prove themselves wrong, or
do you think you take these warnings a little bit
more seriously though?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, I take warnings a lot more seriously now, and
I know my trusted people to listen to what they
have to say. And that's probably the tricky thing too.
Like that time, I have a lot of like trusted
people that I could take their input and take it
to heart, except for my parents, who I completely ignored
(21:26):
their warnings. But now I definitely do take what people
say a lot more seriously and like dig in a
little bit deeper. I'll still give people the benefit of
the doubt because that's just who I am. Like, I
(21:46):
am a very trusting person and I think a certain way,
so I just displct that other people do too. But
it takes a lot less for me to change my
mind about somebody's character than it used to.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
I think it's really interesting, just like from an outsider's perspective, Rachel,
because like when I go back and I watch old
clips or old moments, I'm like, this feels like such
a different person. How do you feel watching this older
version of you, because to me, you seem so different.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I see the growth just from the past year, and
maybe it's because I've gotten a lot of help in
this past year, but like from then to now, each year,
I've grown in ways that I've been searching to grow.
And like that was the whole point of me joining
(22:36):
the show because I knew it would put me in
a position where I would have to grow. And I
think that's like the beauty of it, because I just
know that I need that big of a challenge in
order to push myself and to step up to the
plate in the way that I want to. Yeah, of
(22:57):
course I feel completely different because I am. My thought
process is completely different, my values are completely different. The
way I approach certain situations, the way I communicate is
completely different. Yeah, I completely have evolved. Thank you so
(23:18):
much for.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Listening to Rachel Goes Rogue.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
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