Matthew Berry on leaving ESPN for NBC, becoming "the Fantasy Guy", and Seattle Booing Russell Wilson

Fantasy football guru Matthew Berry joins The Bag to discuss his move from ESPN to NBC’s Sunday Night Football telecast, and dives into an awesome discussion about the business of fantasy football, how fantasy has impacted the NFL, and why Seattle fans should not have booed Russell Wilson. A true renaissance man, Matt went from TV writer for "Married With Children" to being America's #1 fantasy analyst, making a cameo in Avengers Endgame, and being personal friends with Jay-Z (one of his rivals in the world's most exclusive fantasy league)! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Never, no, never good. Hey guys, welcome to another episode
of sports illustrated. I heeart radio is the bag with me,

(00:22):
Lindsay McCormick and my amazing co host Sean Jennings. The
bag sits at the intersection of sports and business, delving
into the headlines and behind the scenes of athletes, entrepreneurship
and enterprise for shod today we just had an amazing
conversation with one of my dear friends, Matthew Berry, who
has been at the forefront of fantasy football, really the
guy that put fantasy football on the map and now

(00:44):
is with the football night in America, one of the
biggest shows, and on Joyce. Talking to him we got
a chance to go through his journey on how he
became such a hit figure in fantasy football, with the
economic impact of fantasy football and fandom. We also got
a chance to hear him give some great advice to
Jay Z and how he played in the league with him,
and also some of his thoughts on Seattle currently booing

(01:06):
Russell Wilson Um. You know he he brought. He brought
to the table a lot of insight and a lot
of advice that I'm actually gonna be able to impact
myself with fantasy football in business. So, with that being said,
let's take a listen. You basically put fantasy football on
the map, Matthew Berry, and you have been a blueprint

(01:27):
for how to navigate this industry and create jobs that
were in existence. You carved an entire path out for yourself.
So show us what would what did your exact journey
look like? Well, I would love to tell you that
I was this genius that planned it all out and
I knew every step of the way, but the truth

(01:48):
of the matter is is none of that's true. I
just my big plan was I wanted to pursue happiness,
and that's that. In all seriousness, that's what that was
my plan. And and as opportunities have come about, I've
I've been smart enough to be able to recognize them
and figure out the best way to capitalize on them.
But really, the journey started with me choosing happiness. So

(02:09):
I've been playing fantasy sports since I was fourteen years old.
You can take a look at me and see, wow,
it's been a while since I've seen fourteen. It has
been a number of years, and so I've been playing
since I was fourteen years old, but you know, pre computers,
pre cell phones. UH, in nineteen nine and nine, I
was working out in Hollywood as a screenwriter, writing for
TV and movies, and a site called Rhoda World, uh,

(02:31):
Rhoto World Dot COM, was literally advertising for writers in
n nine and so I wrote them a note saying, Hey, guys,
I'm a professional writer living out in Hollywood, but fantasy
sports is my passion. I love it. Could I, could
I do something on the side? I think would be
so much fun just to do a column. Can I
send you some clips or a sample try out something?
And they wrote me back the next day and they

(02:52):
said we looked you up on IMDB married with children
as our favorite show of all time. You're hired. So
because I wrote you know, Um, uh, you know, uh
mean wife Jokes for Al Bundy. Uh. You know, I
got a chance to write for free for this at
the time low trafficed Internet site called Rotor World Dot Com.

(03:15):
That was in the days of like a o L
and compusar serve. You know, you've got mail like it
was actually a novel thing to get an email. You
guys are both a lot younger than me, so you
may not even remember that but at least some of
your audience will and the right flash forward to two
thousand four and again. So two thousand four, two thousand five.
H I was making a lot of money as a

(03:36):
screenwriter in Hollywood and I was miserable and I was
in therapy because I didn't understand it. I'm like, listen,
I'm you know, I'm I'm happily married, I've got this great,
you know, Showbiz career where I'm writing for movie stars
and TV shows. Um, you know, I'm healthy, I've got
friends and family and I'm depressed. Why am I so depressed?
And so, through therapy and really digging in, I realized

(04:00):
it wasn't a happy marriage. That, uh, my ex wife
is is a lovely person, but we got married very young.
I was twenty five, she was twenty three. Don't get
married before your thirty kids. That's my big piece of advice. Um,
and so it was. You know, I have nothing bad
to say about my ex wife. We just we grew
apart because we got we got older. At that point
I was thirty five, she was thirty three and we're

(04:22):
just very different people and we sort of grew apart.
So I'm in this unhappy marriage. I was really frustrated
and I hadn't really allowed myself to accept that in
show business and the only thing that made me happy
Rashad and Lindsay, the only thing that made me happy
was this dumb little website that I had started. I
had left Rhoda World in two thousand four to start
talent to Mr Rohda DOT COM, which was my own blog.

(04:42):
I still had a relationship with the Rhoda world because
they were pushing, pushing my stuff to that new blog.
I'd like maybe two thousand kids on the side at
the time, but I woke up in the morning and
went to bed tonight and all I was thinking about
was this dumb site because I loved fantasy football so much.
It was the thing that made me happy, and so
I decided to choose happiness and I quit. I went
to my writing partner and I said, let's do one

(05:02):
last movie. We ended up writing it for the rock.
It never got made, but we wrote one last movie
for the Rock and we said all right, Um, let's
bank the money and then I'll probably make ten dollars
a year. But I just want to choose happiness and
I'M gonna try to put on my eggs into this
thing and I'm gonna I'm gonna see if it's possible
to make a living talking about fake football on the Internet.

(05:24):
And Uh, you know, I sorted just started going out
and promoting everything and I realized that the only way
that I could get, uh, anyone to my site because
I didn't have money to you know, I just save
money because I was figuring I'm quitting my job and
I had to save money to live on. So I
basically realized I couldn't buy advertising. The only advertising you
could do was me. So into every website, TV station,

(05:46):
radio station I could find, I said, I will come
on your air for free, I will write for you
for free, just link back to my website. Just mentioned
my website. And one of the first places I went to, obviously,
was espn Um and I started doing some stuff for them.
I DID RADIO IN L A, which led to cold pizza,
which led to Espn News, which led to writing for
the magazine and finally, in two thousand seven ESPN came

(06:06):
to me and said, hey, we think fantasy football is
big enough that we want to uh, we need a guy.
We've been talking internally. We need to find somebody. We
need to find a Mel Kuyper Jr for fantasy football
and we like all the work you do for us.
At that point my website was profitable. All those years
of promoting had made the site. You know, no one
was buying yachts, but we were. We were profitable, we

(06:27):
had a really nice subscriber base, and so ESPN said
to me in Oh seven, we want to buy your website,
movie to Connecticut and make you the guy. And all
those things happened, and I'm happy to go into any
of those steps or anything that I've done since then.
But all of that was literally with that one basis
of following my passion and chasing happiness. I just wanted
to be happy and by chasing happiness, by chasing UH

(06:52):
passion and not worrying about anything else, I am. I'm,
you know, I literally Hollywood to win an Emmy. I
left Hollywood and I've been in movies. You know, I've
made so much more money than I ever did as
a screenwriter. I am, you know, much more successful, famous,
well known, happier, pick whatever adjective you want. I am,

(07:16):
and you know, more than I ever was as a
screenwriter in Hollywood. which is a very desirable job for many,
many people, and it's all because my plan was just
to chase happiness. You're also one of the most creative
people I have ever met. When I worked at ESPN,
I think it was the first floor, we called it

(07:36):
the basement. My boss, Anthony Moore Mile, his office was
next door to years and I was working on a
show called street for the cash with Molly Caram and
Jenny Dell. They were rotating through all three of us,
and I would come to you for career advice after
I would like leave Anthony Moor Mile's office. I would
come in and I would say like, how do I

(07:58):
how do I stick around at ESPN? How do I
make it? How? Like just looking for any tidbit of
career advice, and I remember you gave me this advice
and you said have you seen I justine? You're like go,
like pull up eye justine on Youtube and she has
made a name for herself because she's done something that's

(08:18):
essentially like proprietary, that's unique and people can connect with that.
So you need to figure out how to be the
sports version of I justine, and I thought that sounds
like a lot of work. That sounds like a lot
of of creativity is needed for that. And looking back
at that advice, I'm sure you don't remember giving me

(08:39):
that advice. It was so long ago, like decades ago.
That's stuck with me and I especially now, like fifteen
years in, I look back and I think he was
spot on with that and finding something that, because there's
so many talking heads in sports, and I think that
you've done that for yourself as well. There's a fan

(09:00):
to see football expert on football night and in America
now because of you, which is the number one watched
show in all of television, and I think it says
a lot for how creative you are. is a human
being rather than just, like I said in that first question,
just working hard and and taking jobs that are already there,

(09:23):
like you've been so creative. Where did that come from? Well, well,
thank you. You know, I don't actually, you're right, I
don't remember that specific conversation. I remember having a lot
of conversations with you over the years giving you career advice,
because I saw on you what I think many fans
have now discovered over the last fifteen years, which is
you are you are bright and you are inquisitive and

(09:46):
you work your ass off and you are uh, you
have an infectious personality. Rashot, I will tell you, Um, anywhere,
anytime I need to. Like. You know, I'm fairly well known,
like I got a pretty good Rolodex, or, as it were,
I got a pretty good contact list. But if I
ever need to get in somewhere, if I ever need like, Hey,

(10:06):
I need to get into this party, I need to
know this person. I know that. I just text Lindsay.
I'm because Lindsay knows everybody. Like Lindsay knows everybody, and
it's she totally is. You have no idea, and it
was that way at ESPN. Like everyone loves Lindsay. I've
never heard anyone ever say a bad word about her.
Everyone adores her and, Um, because she's all those things.

(10:27):
And the thing, the the advice about I justine. I've
never met her, but I thought it was so fascinating
and I watched your career and I follow her on
a bunch of social media's. That's someone who also took
passion right. She loves apple products and she just basically
said like I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm changing. Her name
is justine and I'M gonna I'm gonna be I justine,
like whatever. It's a gimmick and but it works right

(10:49):
and she's just she's all in on apple and she
has risen the wave of people, you know, that love
that company and you know she's done phenomenally well for herself. Um,
and so, and I would say, Lindsay that I think
you have done that. You have, you have carved your
own path and you've done a bunch of different things.
You have not just been a I'm going to be

(11:10):
a blonde female sportscaster. You're an entrepreneur, you're an investor,
you do boxing, you do entertainment. Like you you. I
don't think there is a mold. You are hard to describe,
and I mean that in a huge compliment. So, Um,
to answer your question, I don't know where the creativity
comes from, other than, I would say, like, I just
my parents and growing up. Um, uh that. I uh that.

(11:34):
I've always been fascinated with trying to the challenge of
this is something that I love. I always love the
challenge of painting myself into a corner and then figuring
out how to get out, like I love. So we
mentioned married with children which in reruns are still going.
But if you've ever watched the show, the premise that

(11:55):
show is it's Al Bundy who works as a shoe
sales and has an unhappy marriage, has to Brady kids,
he's married with children. It's just sort of what. But
he's like genuinely a good guy. He's just put upon
and anyway. So it's Um, it's a very male show.
It's very much a show that was written, you know,
twenty five years ago. It's a very, very male oriented show,

(12:16):
but that's the idea of it. And so, but that
particular show, if you ever watch it, there's really only
three sets. You've got four characters, you have the neighbors,
but it's really it's Alt peg, Bud and Kelly and
you've got that couch, you've got a living room at
kitchen and if you if you really needed to, you
can go to the shoe store. So it was always
I love the challenge of okay, that's what you have

(12:36):
to work with. You got four characters, a couch at kitchen,
in a shoe store, go, you know, and they did
that for two episodes. Improv I mean it is. And
so I've always loved the idea of Um. I just
enjoy that challenge of being giving set a specific set
of parameters and then figuring out how to do that. Rashide,

(13:00):
absolutely right. Um, it's interesting. You mentioned Improv. So I'm
not a particularly good actor, but what I did do
when I moved to l a to be a Sitcom writer.
I took classes at the groundlings, the world famous groundlings classes, Um,
and that's, you know, it's a famous Improv Academy that
Will Ferrell came out of, and you know Mike Myers

(13:20):
and you know, uh, you know a Zillion, a zillion
famous comedians over the years that have been on Saturday
night live and Um on down. You Know Dana Carvey
and anyway, it's it's a long, crazy list of Um,
of Kristen wigg is a is a groundling. Anyway. So
I took classes there for three years, and not because

(13:40):
I thought I was gonna be a great actor, but
I wanted to be comfortable in situations where you had
to get up in front of strangers. At the time.
This is for my writing where, Um, because I thought
when you write in Hollywood you have to pitch, you
have to pitch your story, you have to get up
in front of executives and say, like here's what happens,
you know, and here's who the characters are, here's how
I see this movie or this TV show. And so

(14:02):
I wanted to be comfortable pitching uh two executives. So
I took this class to get me some uh confidence
and uh, you know, the ability to to feel comfortable
speaking in public and an unknown situations where shide you're
absolutely right, because that's what Improv is. Improv is here's
you know, you're an alien on a planet trying to

(14:23):
sell hot dogs, like, you know, go and and then
you've got to figure out a scene when a partners
you're trying to make it up, and the people that
are truly brilliant, uh Improv artists, you know, if you
ever watched the old show, whose line is it anyway,
like truly brilliant people and Comedians. And so I don't
ever thought I was a great improv artist, but I
got I took three years of classes, uh, and so

(14:45):
like two sessions a year, like I by the end
of it I felt pretty comfortable being in situations where
I'm in front of a microphone, where I'm doing an
interview with like you guys, and I'm, as we said
before we turned it on, Lindsay was like, well, we're
just gonna ask him, like, ask me any thing, because
I'm at this point. I'm I'm good, you know, uh,
with whatever people want to ask me, and it's it's

(15:07):
thanks to that. So that's one way that I honed
my creativity. Great, then we'll throw some tough ones at you. Yeah, okay,
that that's the you know, that's something I speak to
a lot. Is I appreciate what, Um, the the opportunity
to watch somebody think. I think that's that's fascinating, instead

(15:28):
of people getting fouled information. Um, you know where you're from,
where is this? Where is it? And it's just fouled
information that they do not have to think through. You know,
and I like to hear successful people think, Um, because
it allows me into their life, to see life how
they see it, versus just reading, you know, encyclopedia information.
You know when when one of the things, one of

(15:49):
the things that was mentioned, one of the things that
you had said about happiness that it really resonated with
me was Um, you know, you really learned to fall
in love with the process more than the outcome and
you may supersede your original goal. You know, you fell
in love with the process that it took to become
happy and you probably and you did, Supersede your original goal. Right,

(16:11):
and so with with with that in mind, you know what,
if some of the advice you would give for somebody
how to get in that place where they can pursue
one thing and let that one thing drive them, because
obviously you could have made at that time, you could
have made more money Um doing what you was doing
in Hollywood, but your your your your sacrifice to say,

(16:31):
you know what, I'm gonna just take my ten thousand
dollars a year, I don't care. I'm pursuing this and
this what's happiness. How do you get to that place
of security where you're willing to make that sacrifice? Well,
I have two different answers there. So the first answer
is how I got there is because I had to.
I like I was massively depressed, like I you know,

(16:52):
I was like really had really dark thoughts. I was
going to therapy like twice a week and just massively,
massively depressed and I couldn't figure out why. Again, I'm married,
I'm in a career that everyone's envious of. You know,
I go to Hollywood parties and their celebrities there. It's like,
you know, all my friends back home we're like, Oh,
you must have such a glamorous life, and I was
just like yeah, in theory, but like I'm freaking miserable

(17:14):
and I don't know why. and Um, and so it
would be a whole of the podcast to unpack all
the reasons why, but I sort of gave you some
top level. For for me, it was it was, it
was the mother of necessity, right, it was, you know,
invention is the mother of necessity, right. I mean that's
like I had to because I had no other choice
because I was just gonna like keep getting further and
further into a dark hole if I just didn't get out,

(17:36):
because I just I just was so unhappy. But I
think in general, I think for people it's well, what's
what's interesting to you? What what motivates you, what what
makes you happy? What you know? To get to that
place is to go down that path. It's like, okay,
what's the goal? And I think the goal shouldn't be

(17:57):
material in nature. The shouldn't be like I want to be,
you know, like let's take a hey, I want to
have my own podcast. Hey, I want to be an entrepreneur. Hey,
I want to be a star NFL running back. Like, no,
the goal should be like, okay, well, why do you
want to be a star NFL running back? Well, because
you know, there's fame and there's there's there's money and

(18:18):
there's attention and there's girls and there's whatever. There, you
know whatever that is. No, no, no, no, you want
to be that because you enjoy competition. You enjoy you
enjoy the challenge of it. That's what makes you happy.
Right to your point, the journey, right, I mean because,
like everyone, Rashot, I'm sure you meet a ton of
people in your life that says, you know, I was
this and I was this and I was really good

(18:39):
in high school and Blah, blah, blah, and it's like, okay, yeah,
but like when all your friends were out partying Friday night,
where you like no, man, because I'm up at six
am tomorrow morning working lifting weights. Hey, I've I've got
a run like you know, I have a seventeen year
I have an eighteen year old, suddy, just hearn eighteen.
I was home seventeen, but I have an eighteen year
old son. We live in Connecticut and he's second team

(18:59):
all stayed in Lacrosse, and Lacrosse is like Lacrosse in
Connecticut is highly competitive, and so he made second team
all state. And one of the reasons is why? Because
Friday night all his friends are, you know, he's a
high school senior. All his friends are out there drinking
and whatever Friday night and he's just like no, I'm
I'm gonna Watch a movie with my girlfriend because, you
know what, I'm up at six am, I gotta lift

(19:20):
weights and then we're running track and then I'm watching
and then I'm watching film. And like he and plus
he's also going to high school, you know, and he's
got two great it's like like so, if you don't
enjoy that stuff, if you don't like it's what? What's
the old famous quote, Rashad? Like, listen, they don't pay
me to play the Games they play me. They pay
me to practice, right. I mean like anyone will walk

(19:42):
out in the stadium seven five fans and cheer your name.
That's easy, right. What they pay you for, and the
part that you've got to enjoy is is doing the
weightlifting and doing the film room and no one's around
and no one's watching and it's dark and it's and
it's ten o'clock at nine and they're like Yo, Rashad,
let's go grab a drink, and you're like, you know,
let's go out, and you gotta be like no, man,
we got the Patriots Sunday. Man, I'm I'm, you know,

(20:03):
whatever it is. You know. Um. So I think it's
it's it's to your point. I think it is realizing
what the journey is. The last piece I'll answer to
your question, as I thought you brought up a really
salient point in your question there, which is one thing,
and this is advice. When I talked to kids, when
I when I speak at schools, I would say think

(20:25):
about what I did, because you're right. Now, more than ever,
there are so many opportunities for people, especially that want
to be creative. But anything you can get distracted. I'm
gonna try this and that and this and this, and
I'm a big believer, and get good at one thing.
So you think about me like I decided to try
to get good at writing sitcoms. I graduated college and
that was my goal, my singular focus. I want to

(20:47):
get good at writing sitcoms. And I did that. I
spent two years as an assistant, answering phones, you know,
getting lunches and in the side at the night when
my friends were going out, I was at home writing scripts,
trying to get note, trying to get feedback on that
and Um and creep honing my craft. And after two years,
and actually that was pretty lucky, it was a short

(21:08):
period of time for a lot of people, after two
years I got my first job writing sitcoms and because
it was a good Sitcom writer and I found a
guy that was a fan of married children and I
got a chance to write a fantasy sports column. And
then I then I got that opportunity and I got
good at that. And because I was good at that,
somebody that was a radio DJ, Steve Mason in L a.
You Got Lindsay. I might you. You might know him

(21:28):
or listen to him. Mason and island. Steve Mason was
a fan of mine and so mace gave me a
chance on his show, ESPN radio L A and seven
ten in L A. and because I was good at that,
I got a chance to be on cold pizza and
ESPN news and because all that, I was good at.
I was able to get a chance to write for ESPN,
the magazine. Because I was that, ESPN decided to put
me on TV and because I was good at that,

(21:49):
like you know, Joe Russo saw me, Uh and became
a fan of mine, Joe Russo, of course, the Russo brothers,
and he put me in a movie. I have a
cameo and avengers end game, you know. And as I
got good at that, Um, you know, NBC noticed me
and brought me over recently and then last week I
was on the tonight show with Jimmy Fallon. All because, all,

(22:11):
because at one point in my life I got good
at one thing and those opportunities led to everything else.
And so once I got an opportunity, and I did,
I succeeded to that and it kept on and on on.
So I think like it. It's so hard to be
good at anything because there's so much competition and so
many people out there doing it that Um focus on.

(22:31):
If you're giving twenty percent of your time to be
good at podcasting and then of your time trying to
be good at Youtube and of your time trying to
be a good writer, like you're not even good at
any of it. Yeah, fucking crush one thing and then
the rest will follow. That's what I'm talking about. That's
what I'm talking about. and talking about the rest to
follow and crushing one thing. I mean you have to,
you do. You have to focus on one thing, get

(22:52):
great at it and that let that be the tree
to the limbs to the rest of the things. That's
just successful at. Completely agree. You got good at one thing,
playing football. You played it at the high running people,
people over run, people over and hold onto the ball
and so and once you and because you were good
at that, so many other opportunities have happened for you

(23:14):
were shot. Right. I'm going to bring it back to
fantasy football. where. Where do you see the industry? You
predicted where this was going to the fantasy football industry
was going to be fifteen years ago. So where do
you see it headed the next fifteen years? I think
it's a couple of different things. I mean, first off,
I think some of the advancements are will be in technology, right,

(23:36):
so I think you'll you know, we're seeing more and
more APPs, more and more ways to to help your lineup,
to make it easier to play, to make it easier
to play mobile, you'll I think you'll see more integration
with TV when you're able to play fantasy and interact
with your with your TV. I think you will see
more blending of fantasy and sports betting. We're already sort

(23:57):
of seeing that with some of the player prop type
Games where it's, you know, it's a little bit of betting,
it's a little bit of fantasy and you know, DFS
obviously bridges that gap somewhat as well. So I think
you'll see that. And then the third Prong, I think honestly,
is me, which is so okay. Like I tweeted out
something today which was a little snarky but also like

(24:17):
I meant it so football night in America. NBC Sports
Pr tweeted out something earlier today where they said basically,
football night in America had its highest rated season debut
since here. In their highest rated season debut in seven years.
Ten million people watched football night in America this past

(24:39):
Sunday on peacock and NBC combined. Ten million people, highest
rated since which, when you think about how fragmented we
are as an audience now and there's so many more
choices now on you know, than there were in UH
is a big deal, and so I retweeted that and
I retreated with something sort of snarky, which was just

(24:59):
like see, you mean adding a fantasy guy didn't take
the ratings, and so you know I mean. Thank you.
So what I would say is is that, uh selfishly,
I love being the only fantasy football person on an
NFL pregame show. Like I like that. It's something that

(25:22):
NBC has, an NBC only has. So selfishly, I like that.
Ego Wise, I like that. But looking at it from
a macro level, and to answer your question, I think
that if I don't blow this opportunity, and so far
I think I'm doing okay, if I don't screw this
all up, I think eventually every NFL partner will have
a fantasy slash betting person on their pregame show, and

(25:45):
not in a way where like hey, we're gonna try
to get this ex coach to talk fantasy, you know
in some sort of like, you know, a way that
you can tell that person is not in the weeds,
that person isn't sitting there, you know, sweating whether or
not he's gonna be to pick up Josh Palmer on
waivers tonight, because Keenan Allen is not going to play
on Thursday or you know, he just lost Elijah Mitchell,

(26:06):
so he's checking up. Jeff Wilson Jr is out there
in his league like, you know, not one of those guys. Not. Hey, coach,
what do you like in this game? I think Tom
Brady's gonna have a good game. Thanks, coach. You know
what I mean. Like no, no, you know, give me
a real fantasy person, a real betting analyst, somebody that's
in the weeds, that is respected by those communities, and
so I think eventually you'll get you'll get it more

(26:29):
involved in actual game broadcast. Right now I'm just pre game,
but I think you'll get involved in more actual bright
game broadcast and I think they will more people like
me that will be part of the pregame shows for
other NFL properties and, hopefully than eventually other sports as well.
To bolster your point, in two thousand and ten ESPN
released a report showing that fantasy sport users consume nearly

(26:51):
three times the media that non fantasy sport users did,
which of course, affected than advertisers and marketers. So you're right,
you're we're gonna see fantasy and we're gonna see you
all throughout the Sunday night football broadcast. Well, people that
play fantasy and people have bet on Sports, they are
highly engaged users of the abags of the ABBATS. They

(27:11):
watch more football. They they they click on articles more often,
they listen to more podcasts. They they are more brand aware,
they're more brand loyal, and so it's a highly covenitive,
covened audience. And and so, even if they don't want to,
they're gonna have to follow the money. And that's that's where,

(27:31):
you know, that's where increasingly advertisers are asking to put
their their AD dollars, because that's where the sticky audience is.
That's where the audience is paying attention. You know, it's
talking about, Um, fantasy football in itself. Right, I really
appreciate how fantasy football uh correlates to the success of

(27:51):
players real life. Right. So, Jonathan Taylor clearly one of
the best, if not the best, running backs in the game.
Correlation to fantasy football, he's one of the best in
the backs in the game. Josh Allen clearly one of
the best quarterbacks in real life and come into fantasy football,
he put us up one of the most, if not
the most, points Um in fantasy football is a quarterback position.
Davante Adams one of the best receivers. He correlates, he

(28:14):
puts up the most points, and so I appreciate the
correlation of real life football to the potential points Um
of fantasy football. So I've always wondered this because I
didn't play fantasy football when I played in the NFL. Right,
we actually, because of the tweets, playing a real game,

(28:34):
and I hated the tweets that I was getting all
the time. You know of people, I hate you, you sucking,
and I would always think to myself, you're the owner
of the team. You Suck. Why are you playing me?
I'm not producing. That's a whole another story. Like I
don't suck, you suck his owner. But I would always
say go ahead, you want to say something that. I

(28:56):
was just gonna defend that for a second. First off,
one of the things that I always preach to all
of my followers is never tag a player in your
stupid fantasy football tweet, right, you know, like they are Rashad.
When you were playing, you should have been trying to
help your NFL team win, and that's it, right and
and so let us have our dumb little game, but
like no one should ever be tagging you or any

(29:16):
other NFL player. Um, actually didn't. I did an episode
of Peyton's places Uh and so peyton manning and I
were talking and he had the same complaint. I mean,
this is Peyton manning right, this is the goat. and
Manning's like yeah, I'd meet a fan. He'd be like
you didn't have a good game on Sunday, and pain
be like what are you talking about? We we beat
the Patriots, like ten to nine. He goes, yeah, but
you didn't. You didn't get enough fantasy points, like you know.

(29:39):
He'd be like who cares, like we want a big game,
you know. or or he'd be like a great game, Peyton.
He'd be like what are you talking about? We, we,
you know, we we lost to the Texans. Thirty, thirty, four, yeah, man,
but you threw four touchdown passes. It's like, I don't care,
like we lost. I don't want to lose. Okay, I'm
not making those games up, but Peyton doesn't. I always
got annoyed about that and I was like you were

(30:00):
to get annoyed about that, what I would say there
is is that one? To anyone, any fantasy manager listing,
never tag a player. Never, you know, like whatever, they
don't need it. It gives us of a bad look.
But also what I would argue is that, um, there
are assholes in every fandom, right. So there are. There are,
there's ten percent of people on fantasy fool twitter that

(30:23):
are assholes, that are just, you know, Keyboard Warriors, Um,
but they're the other ninety percent that are like that
appreciate you, that appreciate, you know, the effort you give.
And if they're complaining, they're not complaining quote at you.
And I feel like, yes, there are ten percent of
fantasy fool owners that are awful as well. But, like

(30:43):
you know, you sit here and you look at I'm
trying to think of a good, uh, a good example. WHO, Um,
who had, like Tom Brady had a bad fantasy game, right, Stafford?
There you go, that's a better even one. Stafford had
a bad fantasy game on Thursday night against the bills.
He just he was bad. He just was. And so
I'm sure there are ten percent of the fantasy managers,
like you know, F you, Stafford, and what the hell,

(31:05):
and Blah Blah, blah, blah. Okay, but there's probably also
like ten percent of University of Georgia fans that are
a holes too, that when he played there, you know,
that are bitching because they lost to Alabama or Auburn
or whatever it is, right. I mean there's ten percent
of fans for any college team. That probably ten percent
of Rams fans are assholes. Right. Ten percent of lions
fans probably bitching and him like why did you leave us?

(31:27):
You know, like it's just he can't Um, you just can't.
So while I agree with you fantasy football managers should
never tweeted players, I feel like as a whole the
community gets a bad rap because I think it's a
small percentage and I think that small percentage of assholes
exists in every fan base, not just fantasy. Yeah, just not.

(31:47):
It's not just fantasy fans, it's it's it's fans of
an NFL team, it's fans of like, you know, like
there are giants fans that don't play fantasy, but there
are still assholes. Right, we can agree with that. Right
that you know you're present. They're everywhere. You can't avoid that.
And with and what that kind of being said is it. Well,
will we ever? Have you ever thought about kind of

(32:10):
restructuring any type of points system? I asked that because
as as an athlete, I know where one catch or
one defensive stop is so at large to the outcome
of the game. Because I talked about there's a great
credit correlation of best player equal in points. Jonathan Taylor

(32:33):
said he's the best, he gets the best points. Josh Allen,
Davante Adams Correlation. Will we ever see a correlation of Cutch,
clutch factor plays being included inside of fantasy football? Because
you and I both know it could be one player
to make one clutch play during a crucial time that

(32:53):
maybe it's more more than worth than one point on
fantasy football, because it's more than one point uh in again.
So yes and no. What I would say to that
is yes and no. And and the yes part I
will say is that we're already starting to get there, right,
and so one way that a format that is gaining
popularity in a significant way is called super flex or

(33:14):
two quarterback leagues. Right, because generally the court of Default
of fantasy leagues, where you're playing ten or twelve teams,
one quarterback to running backs, a couple of wide receivers, kicker, defense,
tight end, flex whatever. And what happened in leagues like that?
We shot as people are waiting on quarterbacks. You're getting
my homes like in the fifth round. You're getting Josh

(33:36):
Allen in the fourth or fifth round because again, there's
thirty two NFL quarterbacks. You only need to start one.
There's ten teams. It's just math, right. I don't get
my homes R Allan, I'll get Kyler or Lamar or,
you know what Aaron Rodgers or Brady. I mean like
it goes on and on and on right. And so
with a two quarterback league. And that's sort of insane.

(33:56):
Like how would if you had an NFL draft wherever
NFL team was forced to put all their players in
a pool, the number one player that's picked is either
is either Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes or Justin Herbert,
like you know, in the idea that Justin Herbert goes
behind chase edmonds is insane. And by the way, and
we like chase said, Kase Edman's a nice player, but

(34:17):
like like, and no real world league is you know,
is an NFL general manager taking chase edmonds over Justin Herbert,
the popularity of fantasy football and no one wants to
upset the apple cart. I think the reason why fantasy
football is far and away the most popular fantasy game
number one is obviously the most popular sport the most people.
More people follow the NFL than any other sport, which

(34:38):
makes it makes sense that more people play fantasy football
than fantasy basketball or baseball or any other sports. The
other reason is that I think one of the appeals
is games once a week and the stats are pretty
easy that if I sit there and I'm I'm I'm
just walking by a bar and I see a ticker
and it says Jonathan Taylor had ten rushes for eighty
eight yards and a touchdown, I can do that math

(35:01):
in my head. Okay, so he got eight point eight.
You know, he got he got six points with a touchdown.
He got eight point eight points for the yards. Great,
he's you know, he's at the fourteen point eight. Great,
I got it. You know, like it's just it's sort
of it's easy math that you can sort of keep
track and how many first you know, because it's gonna
be I don't think you're gonna see ticker start counting

(35:23):
like he got four first downs. You know he made this.
You know his degree of difficulty. You know that Jamaar
chase doesn't get his does get the same credit for
a busted coverage touchdown in the first quarter as he does,
you know, basically a ridiculous you know, one handed or
two handed grab in the corner of the end zone

(35:44):
to get the game to overtime. He gets the same points.
And it's how do you judge that? How do you
how do you scale that on a point basis, where
you could say, like, well, that was super clutch and
a monster play for Jamaar Chase, whereas the first one
first quarter, like what does it matter? You know what
I mean? Like, does that make any sense? Absolutely, I'm
on point with it. You convinced me that it's just

(36:06):
Sayre UN popular, right, because I think the biggest appeal Rashad.
I'll just say this to you as a player, a
former player, and then that I'll shut up here because
I'm filibustering. But the point always make to your point.
Josh Allen, Jonathan Taylor, Davante Adams, those guys are bold
faced names, right. They don't need any help. Like those
guys are popular, they're gonna they're gonna do commercials their

(36:28):
their jerseys are gonna get sold, everything like that. But
you think about somebody like James Robinson, you know, like
undrafted free agent, plays in the smallest market in the NFL.
Jags aren't a good team, but he was great in fantasy.
So you know, who cares about James Robinson other than
hardcore jacks fans, fantasy managers, fantasy helps. Guys like fantasy helps.

(36:50):
Guys like James Robinson like fantasy. No one, no one
in the world knows who the Hell Jeff Wilson Jr is,
except fantasy managers, who are all talking about him tonight
because Elijah Mitchell unfortunately tears his pcl and Jeff Wilson,
you just gonna be the starter of the niners for
the next two months? Absolutely when I was when I
was with the Oakland Raiders and I backed up Darren
McFadden and he went down week eight. He went down

(37:12):
week eight, I came in and started the rest of
the season. I earned the starting job. Even when he
came back, they still played me and I don't know
how many people came up to me just in public.
Hey Man, I'm let me buy you a beer and
let me buy you some food. You just want me
my fantasy today. You want my fantasy lea, you want
my fans, because and then I never played the game
and I went and looked back and now that I
do play fantasy. Yeah, if you would have picked me

(37:34):
up in two thousand thirteen off off the way, because
I wasn't drafted, I was a free agent on the bench,
didn't even think about playing, but whoever just snagged me
definitely had somebody in their flex getting twenty thirty points. Pek. Oh, well,
you're talking to one of the guys that did that.
So next time I see I'm buying you a beer. Yeah,

(37:55):
you gotta be a lot of points. I appreciate, no
problem that. And so I do appreciate fantasy because it
does it makes you pay attention to the entire game, UM,
in all teams, not just your favorite team. It makes
you pay assence to everybody, even your opponents. You're paying
attention to the people you're playing against and you're constantly
on your phone. You're checking out, you know, news feeds,

(38:17):
you're checking out Um, you know, uh, red zone football,
catching up with all foots so honestly, I think fantasy
football has made bigger fans of the game. As said,
do you think fantasy football has taken away from true
team fandom? I don't. I get that question a lot.
That's a criticism that comes up quite a bit from
people that are anti fantasy and what I would say is,

(38:39):
I'm gonna go back to Rashad's point there for a second.
It creates opportunities, that creates revenue opportunities for a lot
more players. There's twenty guys in the NFL that don't
need it, right, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes. They don't need it. But,
like you know, who knows who the Hell Isaiah Pacheco is?
Fantasy managers, fantasy managers because he had a Buzzy preseason
and he might he's gonna start getting some run for

(39:01):
the Kansas City chiefs, right. And so my point is,
as a guy like Isaiah Pacheco or jared McKinnon, two
two good running backs, but neither of them our household
names other than hardcore chiefs fans. But I trust you,
every fantasy manager worth the assalt knows exactly who those
two guys are. James Robinson is always the example. I
always give their right and so, Um, you know, for

(39:25):
on teams that aren't, you know, doing that. Well, like
everyone's all excited about John Dotson. I mean, you know,
John Dotson is a rookie going to the commanders. But
two touchdowns and all of a sudden, okay, Devin Daverne,
two touchdowns for the Ravens. Now all of a sudden
fantasy manager talked about Devin Daverne. I couldn't get arrested
two weeks ago, you know, like people don't know who

(39:46):
he is, but now they do thanks to fantasy football.
So Um. So the answer is and so I think
it's I think it's great for the game. It makes
two Rashad's point. When he was playing for the raiders,
they were not only the people who like there's raiders fans,
but then all of a sudden there's a nation of
Rashad Jennings fans, because they all picked him up and

(40:07):
they had him on their team and he's getting them
points every week. And so to Rashaan's point, I bet you,
when you go out in public and you get recognized today, Rashan,
I would bet you fantasy I had you. When you're
in the giants. I had you in the raiders like
that comes up more than Oh man, you know this
is my memory, when you know me and my dad
went to the game, and I'm sure you get some

(40:27):
of that too, but I bet you fantasy comes up
more often, uh than anything, and I hear that from
so many players that that's the thing that comes up
the most when they meet fans. Yeah, absolutely, it's because,
you know, I played on three respective team, Jaguars, the
raiders and the giants, and obviously those fans approached me

(40:48):
when they see me. But now I'm still missing the
other twenty, uh, twenty nine football clubs that are out there,
which now all of those fans know and appreciate at
me because they've had to play with me. And so
it just opens up the entire fandom to a particular player,
which I think it's spread it out way more. Um

(41:11):
of no one and recognizing who these athletes are. And
I'll go back to Lindsie's question here. I want to
hang on. Let me answer your question, because your question
is a question that comes up from critics all the time,
which is hey, Um, uh, you know, does this ruin
the game? You're not real fans. You're rooting for stats,
you're not rooting for wins. Whatever. You know. It's the

(41:32):
Peyton manning example, like hey, you're happy that I because
I threw four touchdown passes, but we lost the game.
That doesn't seem right and I understand. If I'm Peyton Manning,
I understand that. But in that frustration and you shouldn't
be saying that to Peyton Manning, just say hey, man,
I'm a huge fan, and get a pick and get
out of there. But what I would say is to

(41:53):
the people that come at me as a representative of
fantasy football saying that ruins the game. Mike, who made
you the boss of how I'm supposed to enjoy a
game football? The NFL is entertainment. It is an entertainment
product period, and so the fact of the matter is
like I know people like my wife. My wife Loves

(42:14):
Football Games, but if you were to ask her what
she loves about football, she's like, I love going to
football games. We go to you know, my son plays
football and we go to the high school games every week.
We we we go to we've go to college games,
we go to the we go to the we go
to pro games. Lindsay, you met my wife Multiple Times.
We always see you at the Super Bowl, Um and so. UH,
she loves the parties. Honestly, my wife would say what's

(42:37):
the best part of it? She goes. I love the
social aspect. She loves to go to the TAILGATE. She
loves to get together her friends. She'll shoot in the sands,
she'll you know, she couldn't tell you who scored or
what the score is, but she loves the social aspect
of IT. My father is a die hard Texas A
and M Fan. I grew up in college station Texas.
My Dad to this day is a we're like not
only watch the game, but then I'll tape it, they'll

(42:58):
rewatch it. I haven't spoken to him three days because
he can't get over the Appalachian statement loss. I mean,
it's just my dad is beside himself. But my point
is is that I watched Texas A and in football
for the entire reason because it's something that my dad
and I talk about and enjoy. We can break down
the game every week and it's something that so that's
why I watched and m football. Like I root for
a and M. it's great, but I'm not a big

(43:19):
college guy. My careers in the pros. I I spend
most of my time focusing on the pros, but I
will make a point to watch every Texas A and
football game because that's a connection that I have with
my father. Right. So, so if I want a group
for if I want to enjoy the game because it's
because I have a connection with somebody that I watched
those games with, or because my wife wants to do
something social, or because I have a bunch of fantasy players,

(43:41):
or because I put a hundred bucks down on, you know,
the steelers to cover the spread. Who Are you? The collective?
You not? You specifically, Lindsay, but who are you to
legislate how I enjoy an entertainment product. So if I
decide I would rather root for a group of players
that I have collected versus a group of players that
Dave Gettleman is collected, why am I wrong? You know,

(44:03):
I mean like, why am I wrong? It's all just
you know, it's the old Jerry Seinfeld joke. We're all
just rooting for jerseys. I thought it was insane and
Rashat is a former player. I would love to get
your perspective on this. I did a whole rant on
my podcast today about this. I thought the Seattle fans,
I could not believe they booed Russell Wilson. Shame on you, Seattle.
What the hell once the game starts? Once the game starts,

(44:26):
you want to boo and yell and try to get
Denver off its snap count and have to go to
a silent count and do a false start or get
some of the lay game penalties, which they did great,
God bless that's part of the game. But when three
walks onto that field, for what he's meant to that team,
what he's meant to that community. Like, I'm not even
a huge Russell Wilson Fan, but come on, give the

(44:47):
man as props. That guy brought you a super bowl.
That guy has been nothing but amazing in that community.
Like he's the real deal. He's as good a base
of a franchise as you could ever hope for. And,
by the way, if you paid any close attention, Russell
Wilson Bailed Out Pete Carroll's Dumbass coaching time after, time
after time again by making ridiculous plays. Pete Carroll one

(45:10):
of the luckiest coaches in NFL history because he lucked
into Russell Wilson and Um and had him on a
rookie deal and that you know. John Schneider put together
a great defense behind him, the Legion of boom, and
you know they had all the success. But time after
time Pete Carroll Made dumbass mistakes in coaching that with
any other mortal quarterback. They lose the game because rush

(45:32):
pulls something out of his butt, they win a game
and you sit there and boo three because he wanted
to go to a better situation, didn't want to be
part of a rebuild at this part of his career.
Who blames that man? I I was so upset at
Seattle for Booing Russell Wilson. My point, though, to bring
that that ranch around, is that we're all just rooting

(45:53):
for laundry. If Seattle, if the Seattle Seahawks, can boo
Russell Wilson and his first game back after everything he's
meant to that team and that community, then why is
somebody gonna Bitch at me because I'm rooting for my
collection of players? Russell Wilson is one of yours. Seattle,
Russell Wilson's one of yours and you just booed him

(46:14):
the first time you saw him. Screw you guys. Yeah,
a love of passion, a love of passion. I'm gonna
rewind and play this over and over, basically, especially from
the player standpoint, man, because we like the fandom of that.
I'M gonna I'm gonna say this because I've had a
couple of experiences, and you know, you probably appreciate that

(46:34):
in the viewers and listeners, to when I was in
Jacksonville played against the Oakland Raiders and uh at scored
a touchdown. We're playing at Oakland. I scored a touchdown.
I'm right in front of the black hole and I
do my little end zone celebration and I see these
dudes with the pit spike shoulder pads and the and
the painted silver and black face reach over top of

(46:56):
that banner and give me the biggest middle fingers that
you could find and screaming at me, cussing at me.
And this is when I was in Jackson and I
was like, Dang, they're really piste off, and so I'll
go back on the sideline. Fast forward. Eventually, through free agency,
I get picked up by the raiders and we have
our first game and I'm warming up and I'm right
by the black hole and it's the same group of
people and they're yell at me. Hey, Jennin's you remember me?

(47:19):
I was like, yeah, remember Y'all flicked me off and
was cutting me out. He said, Hey, you're with us now,
so don't even worry about it, and I remember at
that moment I was thinking, you know what, I gotta
appreciate the fans because they're consistent at least. But it
but to your point about what Russell was brought to
the community and winning the Super Bowl and all these
things like you can't expect the player to be loyal

(47:41):
to a and and I'll say this on behalf of players,
because they can't say it. Players don't care about loyalties
and none of these teams, I'm gonna just I'll go
on up. I will say it, because they can't. I've
been in the locker room. I get it and I
get they can't ever say yeah, I agree with foreshoting
what he's saying. They don't care about that. They don't
care about the loyalty of the game because it will
wash you up and spit you out right. You have

(48:03):
to be loyal to your character. You have to be
loyal to your family, you have to be loyal to
your work. You're crafting your resume is while you're in
the game. You're not in the game because you're loyal
to a team. You're loyal to being a great, well
rounded player and helping contribute whichever thirty two respective teams
decided to put you on it. Now, as far as
your point, though, it does speak to yeah, it speaks

(48:26):
to your fandom. Of I can't appreciate anybody booing an
athlete that has put himself in a better position. I mean,
I've seen I've seen guys that have been cheered and,
you know, out here doing, I llegal things, but you're
gonna Buo a guy that is a class act when
you're a super bowl come back, probably waving a fans

(48:47):
sign and autographs and you're buying the guy. Makes no sense. Yeah,
I had a real problem with that. I had a
real problem with that, but just specific as it is
to fantasy football, I mean, I just I don't know
how that's any different. You're mean in the terms of
like people like you're ruining the game. I'm why? Because
I'm rooting for I'm rooting for my players. That I
collected and that's how I'm enjoying the sport versus, you know,

(49:09):
because I'm not loyal to laundry, literally what I'm saying
like that's the perfect example, like the Seattle fans. If
you're not, if Seattle fans aren't loyal to Russell Wilson,
then what fan base is loyal to? What player? You're
loyal to laundry, you're loyal to a decal, you're loyal
to a, you know, a uniform and a logo. You're
not loyal any players. So why do I need to

(49:31):
be loyal to a why can't it be loyal to
my guys? And I don't know. Again, I just think
it goes to it's an entertainment product and let me
enjoy the entertainment product however I want. I will say
specifically for me, I'm a Lord help me. I'm a
commander's Fan, right I I've been a Washington fan since
it's five years old. I lived in Virginia till I
was twelve, and so that's in me like I believe
Burgundy and gold, and it's never getting out of me,

(49:52):
much as I would love to, because they've drive driven
me crazy for the last two decades. But that's you know,
that's my team. You need to see. I'll tell you,
like therapist, for a different reason, if you're a commanders fan. No, yeah,
that's what I said exactly. I believe you have no idea,
but what I would say is I just my rooting

(50:14):
is just more s more specific. I Have Trevor Lawrence
on a fantasy team. I Have James Robinson on a
fantasy team. So last weekend I wanted both those guys
to do really well in a loss. I wanted Washington
to win, and that's what ended up happening. By the way,
Lawrence had a solid game. Robinson was amazing. UH, commanders two,
that was a perfect game for me. So my my

(50:36):
rooting is just much more narrow, and it doesn't always
work that way, but whatever. That's how I enjoy the sport.
Everyone should enjoy the sport however it is they see fit.
There's nothing there's no right, right or wrong way to
enjoy anything, including the NFL. Well, we know you're a
very busy guy, Matt, so we're not gonna take up
too much more of your time, but we've got a
few rapid fire questions that we're going to ask you

(50:58):
to end this. First of all, I read a stat
recently where fantasy football is costing employers nine billion dollars
because employees are checking and setting their roster, their fantasy rosters,
during office hours. Are you ready to take responsibility for that,
and what is your pay? Well, accounts. Yeah, I've seen

(51:20):
that report. I've also seen there's account report that actually says, no,
that what they've done is they've done studies. There's sort
of somebody trying to make headlines with that. Um, I
hate to use the term fake news, but I would
say is that, Um, the people that put that out
having a they're they're an agent, they're a workplace consultancy
group and they like they're trying to get hired anyway. Um,

(51:42):
there's another study that has shown that that places that
own that that allow fantasy football people are more productive,
they retain employees longer. Um, employed, the average workday of
an employee is longer, and the reason is it's because
there's more camaraderie, there's more togetherness. That what fantasy football

(52:03):
in the workplace does. Is that like you're like Oh hey, um, hey,
VP of marketing, my job is I never I don't
know how to Um, I never interact with the VP
of marketing, but we're in a fantasy league. So now
the sudden I have a reason to reach out. I'm
just a production assistant, I'm just an assistant and I'm
in the league with the CMO and so normally I

(52:23):
would never interact with that person, but now, because we're
in a fantasy league together, I can, I can message them.
You know, I wrote about this last week on on
my column. It's free on NBC, Sports Edge DOT COM,
ROTOR WORLD DOT COM, company man Um, because when I
did the tonight show they were doing their draft that
night and they they started out as a small fantasy
league and it's become so popular. And I have to

(52:46):
tell you, Um, the tonight show staff is fantastic. All
really close knit. Uh, they got along great. My experience
on the tonight show with starring Jimmy Fallon, you know,
awesome from top to bottom. But they told me that
this league kept growing and growing and growing and this
league now has thirty two teams, like thirty two different
employees on the Jimmy Fallon show play in the league.

(53:09):
Jimmy plays in it, all the roots playing it the
guy who won it last year is Jimmy's q card guy,
the makeup people playing it, the wardrobe people, the person
that does the music clearances plays in it. And so
it's thirty two people and they divide up into four
different leagues of Eight teams. And then each of those
eight leagues, each of those four leagues, you know, have
champions and those champions make the playoffs. A couple of

(53:30):
people from each league make the playoffs and then so
on and so forth, and they meet up in the
you know, in a in the new next round of
the playoffs, and just kind of keeps going until there's one.
I put the whole list of the rules in my
my love hate column from week one, if you guys
want to check it out. But the point is is,
like it works for them, it works for Fallon. You
know what I mean. It's I mean that's a highly

(53:50):
successful late night television show. Um, that generates, I trust,
trust me, a lot of revenue for the National Broadcasting Company.
So Um. So, yes, I I hear that argument, Lindsay,
and I refute it strongly. Anything that brings staff Camaraderie together,
I think, is a good thing. Um, I'm sure the
tonight show staff asked you to help them set their rosters.

(54:14):
But who's the biggest celebrity that's ever asked you for
fantasy advice? Jay Z. that's Jay Z. I mean, uh,
you know, I mean I think it's gotta be Ja.
I mean there's other big you know, some other a
lot of the people in the M C U, uh,
Chris Pratt, uh Ryan Reynolds, you know, guys like that.

(54:35):
But WHO'S BIGGER THAN JAY Z? It's Jay Z. I've
been in that league ten years with Jay Z's league
and a bunch of other UH, basically all of Jay's
best friends. Like it's a crazy heavy hitter league, the
Guts League, very famous league. It's UH, you know, Steve Stout,
who's the CEO Translation of United Masters. It's Jesse Hitsler,
WHO'S THE CO owner of the Atlanta Hawks. It's Chris Paul.

(54:57):
It's Um Wand Prez, the president of Rock Nation Sports.
It's Mike Kais, of the President Atlantic records. It's UH
Kevin Lyles, who was, you know ran, uh, you know,
ran Def Jam and now runs three under entertainment with,
you know, Magan the stallion, one of his big artists
it's IRV Gotti murdering, the legend Irv Gotti, like on
and on and on. Um. This league is just, you know,

(55:18):
Legend after legend after legend. Rich Kleman, who's Kevin Durant's
business partner, like it's legendary. What's The craziest fantasy football
bat you've ever heard of? So the easy answer there
is the Tattoo. And there's a lot of leagues where
the loser of the League has to get a tattoo. Um,

(55:41):
and so I always think that's crazy that you are
willing to get a permanent, rest of Your Life Tattoo
chosen by the winner. And there have been some doozies
over the years. There has been Um, you know, uh,
you know, there's there's guys walking around with tattoos of
Justin Bieber. This says Hashtag Yellow Swag, with Unicorn Worms,
with pokemon characters. I've seen one guy had to get

(56:03):
left shark, remember from the Super Bowl. Left Shark like
was out a sink, the Katie Perry. So he's got
little that year got left shark. I saw one from
this past year that got Joe Exotic, you know, from
from Tiger King. Had to get a tattoo of that
guy one that Um, uh, the guy had to get
a tattoo of his commissioner. So, like, you know, just

(56:25):
so he's got a tattoo of a random dude on
his leg. Like it's one thing you've got a Tattoo
Justin Bieber. You could just sort of play it off
as like, I love the beabs, you know what I mean.
But like, he had to get a tattoo of his
commissioner on his on his on his leg. There's somebody
out there that had to get a tattoo of me.
Like there's somebody out there with a tattoo of me.
That was the punishment. Um, yeah, thank you very much.

(56:47):
I'm tattoo worthy. Um. So that's the easy answer. But
I've actually heard of one league where, uh, the loser
the League didn't just didn't have to get a tattoo,
they had to get branded, like cat gets branded. Yes,
so it's not only it's, it's it's the same permanence.

(57:08):
It's say it's the same permanence of a tattoo, but
it's branding. It like hurts, like you're burning skin, like
it's and if I didn't see it personally, like they
sent me video like. I've never shared it because it's
uncomfortable and I don't want to encourage that. Don't do
that at home. I love fantasy punishments as much as anyone.
Don't do that, um, but that was the worst one

(57:29):
I've ever seen. Is the is the branding is the
guy had to get ff loser branded on his leg.
That's incredible. Well, Matthew, would definitely appreciate your time. Man, absolutely,
and I do have to ask you one question because
I get this question asked a lot to me, and
you know, I played in the NFL. Um I was

(57:49):
able to write a New York time bestseller book titled
The if in Life, Um, and then I also had
an opportunity, Um, to win to answer with the stars,
and so a lot of people ask me which, playing
in NFL, dancing with the stars, writing New York Time Bestseller,
which one to you personally shot makes you feel the

(58:10):
most full in surprising. So I have to ask you
out of your success in Matthew, between all the things
you've done with fantasy football, being on the tonight show
or being an actor and one of the highest gross
revenue movies of all time and the avengers in game.
Which one to you is your kind of wow, I

(58:31):
can't believe it did that. I mean the answers, all
of them. And so, I mean there's, you know, there's
what's most proud of, what's the thing I enjoyed the most,
and that kind of stuff. They I mean, the the
true crazy bucket list moment that I you know, that
you know feels is like, you know, just having the
cameo on avengers end game. It's just one of those

(58:52):
I'm a massive fan of the M C U. I'm
a massive fan of the Russo brothers as directors. The
fact of the matter, you know, I made this joke
in the tonight show with like adventures end game is
the highest grossing movie of all time worldwide. I've only
done one movie, so on a per movie basis, I
am the actual highest grossing actor of all time worldwide.

(59:12):
You know. And talked about the rock. You talk about
Tom Cruise, which just on a per movie basis, like
I'm the guy just saying, Um, numbers are numbers, Um.
So I love that and that movie will live on
forever and that I have this goofy little cameo is great.
So I love that. But in terms of like one
am I most proud of? Um, you know, it's obviously
everything that I've accomplished with fantasy football. The fact that

(59:33):
the fact that I was able to take fantasy football
from this nerdy niche thing that people sort of made
fun of and Oh it's a sports versions of dungeons
and dragons and, you know, it's off in this corner
and should be, and now it's something that's mainstream, it's celebrated.
You know, I went from, you know, going to parties
and meeting people and be like, Oh, what do you
do for a living? Well, you ever heard of this game?
It's called fantasy football, and you pick players and you know,

(59:55):
like too. So I've gone from that to now people
come up to me and say, I'm a big Fan,
so listen at my flex spot this week, you know,
and now they're asking advice. Like I never have to
explain what I do anymore. Not only do I have
to say like it was sort of progression. Used to
be like I had to explain fantasy football and then
I had to explain then I just said, well, I

(01:00:15):
do fantasy football and they knew what that was. What
do you do? I do fantasy ball. Oh sure, I've
heard of that. And now it's like I don't even
say anything. They come up to me and say I'm
a big Fan, I watched your podcast, I watch your show,
I read your column, I've Read Your book, Blah, Blah,
Blah Blah. So I think all that is the two,
to me, biggest accomplishments of all of it. So there's
a lot of things within the realm of fantasy football

(01:00:36):
that I'm incredibly proud of. I want an emmy, uh,
for fantasy football. Now. That meant a lot to me.
I've started a bunch of businesses, fantasy life dot com.
I'm really excited about and proud of those. Uh. Those
the fantasy life APP and fantasy life dot com, the
fantasy life newsletter. I'm really proud of those businesses and
where they're headed. You know, proud of getting on TV,

(01:00:56):
just all the stuff. But the two things, I think
that I would point to them most is um number
one is my current job. That just happened like I'm
a cast member of football night in America, as Lindsay
started our interview off, like the idea that you know,
five years ago, ten years ago and even a couple
of years ago. That an NFL pregame show, let alone

(01:01:20):
the biggest one in the country, the highest rated one
in the country. It's the second highest rated show in
all of America. Only the football game rates higher. Not Sports,
like everything. You know, pick any show. This is US whatever.
The highest rated show in America is the football Sunday
night football game. The second highest rated is football night
in America, the pregame before it over ten million people watching.

(01:01:42):
And the fact that that that I would become a
full fledged cast member of that show, not some one
off thing off to the side where you're here's forty
five seconds because some sponsor paid for a start sit thing.
It's a sort of bs thing and then let the
adults do the talking. No, no, I'm on the at
there with coach Dungee and coach Garrett and Maria Taylor and,

(01:02:03):
you know, Jack Collinsworth and Rodney Harrison and uh and
Chris Simms, you know, former NFL players, you know, and
Hall of Famer and Tony Dungee, a soon to be
hall of Famer, Rodney Harrison, you know, like and I'm
treated as an equal as those guys. You know, is
Um is. I'm treated as an equal internally and I'm
treated as an equal to the fans and the viewers,

(01:02:26):
and so I feel like I I really kind of
broke down a big wall there and I'm really couldn't
be more grateful and appreciative to NBC and NBC sports
for allowing that to happen. So I'm really proud of that. And, Um,
on a personal level, Rashad uh, you know, you mentioned
your New York Times best selling book. I too, I'm
a New York Times bestselling author. You and I have
that in common. We can both look down on Lindsay,

(01:02:47):
we can both sort of slear, we can just sort
of like sorry, you know, we love you, Lindsay, but
you're just not as good as either. Um Not, she will,
by the way. Yeah, I know, I just ever challenged
Lindsay to something because she will accomplish it. But Um,
but no, I when I went out and pitched my book,
and we have you know, I went out with a

(01:03:08):
book agent and uh, and I said Hey, look, you know,
look at all these followers I have. I have a
pretty heavy social media following on ESPN. I'm being able
to promote it. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I have all
these stats here. So how many people read my column?
And like a lot of them were like Ah, and
I said I want to write this book and I
said I wanted to be about my life and I
also wanted to be like funny stories around the world

(01:03:30):
of fantasy football, because I think that will be entertaining
and will be evergreen and people can read it. You know,
the the Justin Bieber Tattoo story that I just told
you or the brand story like that's in the book.
That's like, it's funny. It was funny when I published it,
it's funny now right, Evergreen and so Um. And a
lot of the book publishers were like, Ah, we don't

(01:03:51):
think you're that popular. We think the reason people read
you is because you're on ESPN and because you're because
you're giving fantasy football advice and it's a and it's free. Well, Matt,
I really appreciate your time. This was such a fun
conversation and I'm I'm excited to watch your career for
the next fifteen years. I feel like you're gonna be

(01:04:12):
running not only football night America but all of Sunday
night football, and it's just been fun as a follower
and a friend to watch your career catapult, because I
love when good things happen to good people and you're
one of those. Well, thank you, Lindsay. That means so
much to me. Um, this is awesome. Congratulations on all

(01:04:32):
the success. Guys, happy to be here. Thank you for
listening to sports illustrated and I heeart radio is the
bag with rashane Jennings and Lindsay McCormick. For more podcasts
for my heart radio, visit the I heart radio APP,
apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.