September 6, 2022 • 48 mins
In the debut episode of The Bag, hosts Rashad Jennings & Lindsay McCormick kick off their sports & business podcast with a discussion of this summer's massive NFL quarterback contracts, and how the premiere of the new streaming platform NFL+ is step one in the NFL’s larger plan of getting into the data business. Special guest Shawne Merriman joins the show to discuss his transition from NFL superstar to league owner of Lights Out Xtreme Fighting, his mentee relationship with Dana White, and the business opportunities presented by the evolving sports media landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Never No Never, I who got Big? Hey guys, welcome
to our very first episode of Sports Illustrated and I
(00:22):
Heart Radios The Bag. I'm Lyndzy Vakorvic and I'm joined
by I was gonna say lovely co host, but I
don't know if that's the best word to describe you.
I feel like well, well spoken, thought provoking kind I
was trying to think of a really good compliments. So
(00:48):
my co host Rashawn Jennings and I this our very
first episode of the Bag, and I think we should
start our very first episode by telling people why we're
even doing this show to begin with, and some of
the things that they can look forward to, and then
our first season of the Bag. Yeah. So for me,
I'll first of all lindsay, I'm so excited to do this. UM.
(01:10):
I've been looking forward to an opportunity to work with
you more. I'm excited about the Bag because we're gonna
bring on different guests to actually talk about how they
got to their bag, their bag being in reference to
financial security, their bag being in reference to their creativity
right carving out their own life, their own route, the
(01:31):
unique journey UM, and and hopefully to inspire not only us,
but our viewers on our listeners to to to find
their bag um and to share it. There's no point
of having a bag if you ain't gonna share to
show somebody. So I look forward to bringing bring the
best out of people in this form. I'm actually shocked
that this show has never been done before, and I
(01:51):
think the reason that we need to do it now
is because of some of these things. So the world
of sports is growing exponentially. You have increasing market are
across the board with major sports leagues. You have sports gambling,
new streaming sites beyond behind the scenes experiences that people
are paying to watch. Every year, these enterprises grow in
(02:11):
size and depth, but also in breadth and the past
ten years, like ten years ago we never thought we
would see gambling sponsors, and fifteen years ago we never
could have predicted how big fantasy sports would be and
now e sports. So now is the time to talk
about all these things. Also on the bag, we're gonna
(02:32):
explore athletes and they now have their own brands and
control over their own content because of social media, and
you see marketing agencies and media having to adjust around this.
Athletes are more entrepreneurial as you know Rashad athletes have
side hustles and what they're doing when after they retire
(02:54):
picking up new careers. One of the stories that I
just found so fascinating was Tim Duncan's car customization company
in San Antonio and Shaquille O'Neil's wildly successful DJ business,
which will dive more into the season. Uh. Also, there's
the infrastructure behind these athletes pushing them onto the field. Recently,
(03:16):
Lebron James said that he put a million dollars into
his body during the off season. So we'll look into
the budget on this, We'll talk to the nutritionists, the
European specialists, the cryotherapy. There's an entire world we can
tap into, and now imagine that all that information is
in one place, and that's the bag. And I really
feel like Rashade, you and I are the perfect people
(03:38):
to bring the show to the world because I've covered
sports as a journalist and broadcaster for the past fourteen
years and branched out into entrepreneurial ventures and angel investing,
and rashand you played in the league, which your experience
playing in the NFL, and you've been very successful as
well inside ventures. So both of us have our our
(04:00):
feet in both both ends of the pond. Is that
the phrase, yeah, the ends of the spectrum ponds? Uh?
We we were all in and I agree. Um. You
know with this particular podcast where you know, what makes
it unique is to both our perspectives and myself, I'm
a true audor to that. I'm addicted to learning new things.
I come from a point six g p a too
(04:22):
in English to all of a sudden New York Time bestseller. Um.
I've been able to transform my life and do many
one eighties and so uh, the authenticity to learn um
from my end has been true. I wasn't a guy
that just had the red carpet rolled out, um, and
so I had to dig and learn. When you learn
how to do something versus when you're skillful and gifted
(04:44):
at it, the perk is you actually now know how
to teach. I'm really really excited to bring on some
of the guests, uh, to explore them in a unique way.
You had a great interview you did that. Listeners will
be able to hear at the end of this episode
with Sean Merriman, and it was listening to this interview,
(05:08):
it was like listening to two guys in the locker room.
It was a type of insider look at sports and
the business of sports and life after sports that you
typically don't get to hear. So I found it extremely fascinating. Yeah,
Sean's a man. Uh you know, Sean is that guy,
and he he keeps it real, he keeps it on,
(05:29):
he keeps it truthful. He's gonna be open to tell
you what where where, His ebbs and flows are his
raw opinion. And I like this form because, especially when
you're dealing with athletes and professional um men and women,
certain things you are not allowed to say in corporate
have to keep a pc um. In this form, we
don't use the rhetoric of how was the game? Of
(05:52):
course the game was good? How do you feel that
you lost? Well, of course I feel bad. Right. You
can't trash out people or you can't tell the truth
all the time to a stream media. So I'm excited
to open this form to a little bit of authenticity
from my guess I it's funny you say that, because
I feel like all the Sideline reporters and myself included,
asked the same although I tried not to being aware
(06:13):
of this, the same questions and get the same response,
the same politically correct response from every athlete. So how
did that feel? They hurt? They hit me? What do
you think? How much do you love your team? They're
gonna trade me tomorrow? What do you mean? You just
won the national championship? How excited are you? You have
(06:39):
some master Blockbuster deals signed, and these huge contracts signed.
During the off season. You had Kyler Murray where all
the details of his entire contract, including his video game
playing time were were shown to everyone. Then you had
Deshaun Watson with all of his guaranteed money, and now
as of last week, you had Russell Wilson just signed
(07:02):
the deal with the Broncos. So what are your thoughts
on all of this? I love it, Lindsay. I love
to see the players get paid as they deserve it. Um.
You know, when I was playing, I felt a lot
of the players was getting underpaid. I truly do. And
even the numbers that you're seeing come across the TV,
you still gotta keep in mind if this is what
the players are getting paid, and that every owner still
(07:25):
tries to undervalue their employees, what value is still missing?
So I like to see the number go up, and
I hope it continues. Obviously, it's fun to look at
these big numbers and these big contracts and marvel at them.
But every year the contracts keep getting bigger and bigger
and bigger, which begs the question why. Absolutely well one perspective.
(07:48):
I don't believe general public considers why contracts are getting larger. Yes,
market and demand and all of those things, but players
are just simply getting smarter, period, point blank. Um. I
hate to say it, but you know, in the early
you know, possibly eighties, Um, there wasn't a stipulation for
(08:12):
athletes to be on football fields even bar even going
back down to high school. I believe I was one
of the last generations where you could play football without
having high school have a g p A of a
certain stature. Um, lord knows, because I had a point
six at one point in time. So as you forced
athletes to get smarter, like some some guys used to
(08:34):
show up drunk, drugs and you know, sex and rock
and roll and I on a football field and close
line of people, and it was it was a different era.
It was a different game, um, and they helped build
this game to where it is today. But see the
NFL that forced education on players, being that you had
(08:55):
to have a two point three g p A to
play high school football, you had had a two point
five hide the college to get by, and you're forcing
smart athletes. Well what happened is a decade later, here
comes those smart athletes and understanding their value. Right, and
so now when you have players that are smart and
(09:15):
athletic on your roster, they understand their market value. So
pay me more. Right, some of the best athletes by
are you. There's not one player in the NFL that
you could talk to that would not agree that the
best athletes are in prison. I'm gonna tell you the
only reason I was in the NFL is because I
(09:37):
had knew ten other guys that would not make the
right decisions in high school, and I would make the
right decisions. It's not that I was good, it was
that you didn't see them even play. You were involved
in the Players Association. M yeah, I was an NFL player. Up.
You're a player rap. Do you feel like when you
look at all the other player associations, do you feel
(09:58):
like the NFL is it has some way ways to
go to catch up to the other leagues in terms
of the players Association because I've heard some comments before
that the NFL p A is the weakest one in
terms of sports. I could see why. UM, I don't
believe it's the weakest. I think we get often compared
(10:21):
to the NBA, which they do a good job with
their players. UM. There is a different pool of money
divided by the athlete. However, UM, I do think that
the NFL p A UM has been doing an okay job.
I think we missed the ball, missed the ballpark in
(10:41):
a few ways. UM. I think that, uh, you know,
in a part of negotiating, you can't get at all.
And I think that we're playing behind the eight ball
because we put our union together of in retrospect most
recently in comparison to the NFL owners have been running
the show for very long time. So it's gonna take
us a while, UM to even out to play and
(11:04):
feel more. However, you know, UM, we got a ways ago.
We've done a lot of amazing things, and I think
that they're trying and they should continue to focus on
how to take care of UM. There are retirees because
you will you will be a retired football player well
longer then you play in the NFL. Unless you're Tom Brady.
(11:28):
You know, Thomas seems like he's ageless. Did He's he's
a different breed. But I'm um, I think the NFL
p A has again a long ways ago. But I'm
happy where the progression is and uh and I'm thankful
that they're not satisfied either. You said more athletes are
getting into media speaking in life after career on the field. Explain, Yeah,
(11:56):
athletes are getting You see more athletes. It's being the
faces of different media companies. You have ESPN, NFL Network, Fox,
even you look at n b A and you start
looking at the cast, they're athletes everywhere. It used to
be I feel like less than almost maybe even a
(12:18):
decade ago, where you had more people talking about the
sport that we play that never have played the sport
at a college level. And so what happens is you
you you get more perspective from the field, from the court, right.
And once again I I parlay from what I said earlier.
(12:41):
The NFL forced smarter athletes on the football field, and
now these athletes understand their craft, and so now these
athletes are able to articulate their craft, which puts them
in front of the microphone. Which now that's why you
see more athletes exposing the game and also the business
behind it. M awesome, awesome insight. But the fact still
(13:06):
remains though that the pie is getting bigger as well. Absolutely,
without a doubt, the pods continuing to get bigger. We
get more and more of that poes good pie. It's
really good pie. So and and and I honestly just
like any other company and any other business, and I
don't ever want anybody to think it's the athlete versus
the owners, not a versus is let's work together more appropriately.
(13:27):
And I will say this too, I will say athletes
are if you if you watch, athletes are representing themselves more. Um,
they're saving their three percent and turning that three percent
straight into attacks right off, right into their own business
and companies rather than paying an agent two piggyback to
(13:49):
three percent off of something that they do one time. UM,
we've we've kind of encouraged companies, marketing companies to work
being on just an agency. Um. Players realize how to
monetize off their social media. Which now you look at
(14:09):
your agent for different olife, it's like, hey, mr agent,
you're doing nothing for me. Beside it, the kind of
making sure the language is what it says it is,
But you're not bringing me any other type of money.
I think I just rather hire a lawyer look over
the contract and hire a marketing team, which then agents like, wow,
I gotta get a marketing team behind me too. I
got so again, more education. It's really the cycle of
(14:32):
WHI players are getting more money on in off the field.
I'll tell you what. When I was an athlete, my
first agent um and I have nothing bad to say
about my agent, but I think he's awesome. But one
thing he didn't want me to do is become an
NFL player REP. I was voted by my peers and
I counsel that with him, and he said, now you
should focus on football. Made sense. I didn't do it.
(14:54):
Got voted again by my peers. Have become an NFL
player REP. He said, focus for football. Didn't do it,
got voted again, and I decided to accept it. And
once I accepted it, a lightbulb went off. I said,
I see why he didn't want me to become an
NFL player, right, because he knows me, and he knows
I'm going to figure out how to represent myself, and
I'm privy to too much knowledge for you to tell
(15:16):
me that, Hey, don't worry, I'll take care of this
for you. Um, athletes are getting smarter. So lindsay you
have mentioned about the poly getting larger. Why do you
believe the pod is getting larger in all sports? Oh,
there's so many reasons, but one of those is because
of these streaming services. The NFL just launched NFL Plus,
(15:38):
which is a director consumer streaming service. And I think
one of the reasons they did that was because they
noticed that the contract with a T and T and
Direct TV on Sunday ticket is their contracts up at
the end of the season, and they wanted to be
competitive and they wanted to how drive up the price
(16:03):
for this Sunday ticket because they can go to people
like Amazon, um and other companies that are in the
mix for this and say, I mean even Netflix, I
think is maybe in the mix and say, you know,
if you're not gonna pay us X amount, well then
we'll just put it on our We'll just stream it ourselves.
And I think you see companies like Disney Plus, Paramount Plus,
(16:27):
like people want their own content. People want to have
that and it's making the pie larger because it's bring
out more competition. And if you actually look at the
NFL Plus deal is exclusive to mobile and tablet. It
is not television, and that's it. The only information they
know is your your your your geographical area of where
(16:50):
you're watching television. That's the only thing that they can
consume UM from the network. But see when you get
on your mobile and when you get on your tablet.
Now is a different kind of consuming of data for them.
Not only do they know who, what you're doing, where
you're watching it, how much you're watching it on a tablet,
(17:10):
watching a commercial when you're getting off of the commercial,
so much data and information is being received through your phone,
mobile and your tablet. If you it's just like clicking
on UM, it's like clicking on the website and it
asks you to join in through Facebook. Why they ask
you through to join in through Facebook and so they
(17:30):
could continue to receive some of those cookies and data
and study behaviors, temperaments, how to sell to you and
that matadata. They can sell that to other sponsors. So
like it's all about information. I think the NFL understands, uh,
information and data is essentially the new age oil and
(17:51):
if they can rab our data on where we are,
what we're watching, why we like it, what we like
every time you press alike, it's consuming information about your behavior.
Now we can sell to you. Now we can give
you what you want. Because everybody's picking up their phone
looking for what they want. The NFL saying, well, they're
(18:12):
picking it up half of the year looking at us,
So let's figure out more information about our consumers. So
the NFL is getting smarter as well. They want to follow,
they want to follow you. Speaking of data, you now
have all the casino fan dual type of sponsors for
(18:33):
the NFL that are making the NFL over a billion
dollars a year, which is again like in terms of data,
I can't think of a better way to have access
to someone's data and financial information than some of these
gambling and and betting sponsors and their websites. It feels
(18:54):
like the NFL just keeps finding more and more ways
to make money, which is why the pie keeps getting
larger and our tur absolutely and they're gonna continue to
do that. The way it's how can we consume this game?
So to bring a full circle Forbes, just released their
valuations of the teams. We know that the Broncos sold
(19:15):
this past year, and the one I found the most
interesting was the Browns. Even with the craziness of giving
a contractor to Shaun Watson and him not being able
to play and playing paying Baker Mayfield is not playing
for them and the decisions they've made this offseason, their
(19:37):
valuation went up forty eight percent, just to show exactly
why these teams can make these poor decisions and not
base repercussions, because again, the pie is still getting bigger.
For the teams and for the NFL. It's crazy and Lindslie.
That was all too interesting, um so much so let's
(20:01):
tap back into another interesting conversation I was able to
have with the legend himself, Mr Shawn Merriman. What's up, everybody?
Appreciate you'all tuning in right now. I got a real
good friend of mine. He really needs no introduction, but
I'm gonna given one. He's a three time Pro bowler,
first round draft pick Fox analysts. He also owns the
(20:21):
brand in which he earned his name from lights Out
when he was in high school. I can't wait to
get into that segment. None other than Sean Merriman. How
you doing, man, what's up? Brother? How you doing? Man? Yeah,
I'll tell you. I'm good as you look. So I'm straight. Hey.
So so where a where about? Where are you in
the world right now? I mean, I'm currently in New Jersey.
(20:43):
My my son lives here. He plays football, um, quarterback
at that So I don't know how that. I don't
know how that happened. But uh, he had his first
game yesterday, man, so he looked good. And then obviously
I was taking my meetings in New New York all today.
So always I'm the East Coaster man. So it's good
to get back nice. So I gotta know he playing quarterback. Um,
(21:07):
you chase him, you chase him around? I do. I did.
I did actually get to getting warmed up, man. I said, Look,
if you can get away from me, you can get
away from any one of these kids out here. So
facts facts man. Oh, So I know you're traveling a lot.
I know you're still connected with the Chargers. I gotta
know how they looking this year in your opinion. I
(21:27):
know they're in the stack division. It's gonna be tough,
but they are loaded that they are, man. Um, you know,
about about three weeks ago, they asked me to come
out and coach the outside linebackers, mainly the younger guys
because it's not really too much culture. You can do
the Joey Boson and and Khalil Mack. You know, those
guys are already all pro and possibly Hall of Famous
one day. But I got a chance to coach the
(21:48):
younger guys and really, for the first time, I saw
that defense and that that team, how they were cohesive. Man.
And I know, you know, we've experienced like seeing names,
big names on paper, team built on paper and they
go out and stink it up during the year, but
it's just not that situation. Like they they are as
good in person as they are on paper. And to
(22:08):
be honest, um, I don't think we've seen a team
like this, uh since Meyer since we you know, we
started playing. So they got a real shot. Man. I
know everybody got better in the division, which is which
is great, but I can't see them not winning the
division the ship. Yeah, and you talk about teams, so
you more than anybody understand secrenocity of team. And I'm
(22:29):
curious as being an o G now giving back to
the younger guys, and you here always always growing up
that offense sell tickets, defense win championship. The way the
game is played today, is that still true? It's always
gonna be true. Well, I mean because at the end
of the day, um, you know, you can put up
(22:51):
all the points you want, but you're gonna have that
that the very few seconds of minutes at the end
of the game where that defense has to hold up.
We have to win. Um. And we seeing some Super Bowls, man,
where it was just a how most people see this
boring when when you got those uh, those fourteen games,
those you know, twelve to ten like that, those are
those are my I think those games are exciting because
(23:13):
you know, for me, it's, um, you know, chess match,
and I love to see chess matches, even though people
other people love to see the points. Absolutely. I'm curious.
I got a question because coming from a running back standpoint,
you know, there's games where I've carried the ball about
thirty times, right, thirty times in the game, and then
there's been games where I've carried the ball maybe five Now,
(23:34):
coming out of the game, it would seem like I
would be damaged, I would feel hurt. I was tired.
I was drained out if I carried the ball thirty times,
But I seem to be more healthy. I seem to
be feel way better after a game that I carried
thirty than five. I'm curious, from a defensive standpoint, just
your career, did you feel better or worse on whether
(23:56):
you saved your body or performed a life I either
be honest, man, I'm a you know, I'm an adrenaline junkie.
So I love the contact. I love the physicality, and
I love that, like that's why I played the game.
And so if it was a game where I didn't
get a lot of contact, maybe you know, the teams
are running counters the other way, it's just cutting off
the back of the edge, and and I couldn't get involved.
(24:17):
I didn't feel as I didn't feel as good like
I love I love him trying to run the line
up and run power did at me with with the
with the fullback right downhill, like those were mind? What's
my type of games where I'm like I felt better
about against the reason why I played the game. And
I also feel like I was I was involved, like
I did something to help our defense with like if
I didn't. I'm sitting back like, Man, I didn't. I
(24:39):
didn't do nothing, you know, So it wasn't a great
feeling for me. I didn't do anything. Yeah, And you've
been fortunate enough to play on some really good teams, um.
And also a part of that is because you've played
with some which I deemed to be a Hall of
fame quarterback in Philip rivers Um. And so with that
being said, the chart just have a quarterback right now,
(25:02):
that's under center. That's the command of the team, franchise QB.
How high of hopes and steaks do the organization have
for him? And do you believe he can live up
to those expectations? Yeah, no question about it. Man. I
got a chance to meet him last year. UM, And
(25:25):
to be honest, I didn't know how big this dude was. Like,
you know, he came in and I was I was
shooting a show for the Charges, and I asked, I said, hey, man,
is Herbert around? I want to meet him? And so he,
you know, one of the most humble, quiet dudes that
you'll ever meet at that position. He's and he's already
a star in the league. And you know, if he
(25:45):
if he has that same attitude. If he keeps that
same kind of level headedness about him, I mean, there's
no doubt about it, he'll go down as one of
the best to ever do it. And more importantly, man,
it's it's so many things about his game that you
just on find Like, like I said, he's a side
when you see him on the feel he doesn't move
like a guy that big, right, Philip, God bless his soul. Man.
(26:08):
He was great. Uh. He was an ultimate competitor, probably
the most competitive player that I've ever played with. Um,
but he didn't have those physical attributes like Justin Herbert does. Yeah.
And didn't you actually, uh, didn't you have encounters with
Philip before being on the team with Yeah? You know
(26:28):
if I love it for you to share that, because
I know we got some big football fans here and
quite often they only see them at the pro level
and that's it and their friends or teammates. But you
had interactions with Philip Rivers competing against him prior to
being on team, So tell us about that. Yeah, I went,
I went to University Maryland. He was at NC State,
and to be honest, I hated him, you know, I
(26:49):
literally I hated that dude, because you know, when we
watch film and we don't watch the we don't watch
the TV copies like everybody else, you can't see and stuff.
And here with the commentators saying, but when you watch
film in the film room, all you've seen is this dude,
your head jerking back and forth. So you know, he
was always talking, pointing at guys like, you know, giving
a little bumped after the play. Just he was always
(27:10):
doing something. I said, I said, man, we when we
see these dudes, I'm going to him seventeen. I'm gonna
trying to take his head off because he you know,
he just he never stopped talking. And they had one
play at the end of the game in their home.
At the very last play in the game, I came
and I almost sucked and he dumped the ball off
but I hit him at the back of the ends
all and I'm getting up and this dude is twisting
(27:31):
my ankle as I'm now. No, don't get me wrong,
I pushed off. I pushed off his chest, you know
I did. I pushed off to get up, and as
I was walking away, I felt somebody talking at my
leg and I turned around to fill up and I
said I'm gonna fight up right here, right now. He
got up and we're squaring off in the back of it.
He was ready to go, and all of a sudden,
(27:52):
you know, at that point, I said, Man, this this guy,
he's different. He's different. And um, he got a lot
of respect, man. But the ultimate I mean, they're not
very many players or people like fail. Man. He was
just a special breed. Yeah. Man, Absolutely love that competitive
as that he brings to the table. And I think
that kind of leader in the locker room rings bells.
(28:13):
Absolutely man. And so talking about the quarterback position, we
see the game is predominantly round around the quarterback. You
have to have one to win. Um. With that being said,
you see some of these contracts that are being handed
out by the NFL, earned by players. Some of them
are so large. You know, you got Patrick Mahomes close
to half a billion dollars. You got Deshaun Washston just
(28:35):
got paid. Um, you have Cala Murray that just got paid.
Do you think that to two questions, do you think
we ever see the day where NFL players get fully
guaranteed contracts? And do you think the owners moving forward,
uh could potentially change how they view contracts with NFL
(28:57):
players because we see a situation like to shine watching
not on the feel performing um. And you see an
issue with Kylin Murray them deciding to put uh some
preliminary language in there saying that you must study. So
do you think these things kind of coincide with each
other that we may or may not see fully guarantee economy. Yeah,
(29:18):
and that's that's gonna be a big part of it.
But the other part of it too. We we just
play a physical game and it's it's not promised. And
you know, I've always uh, you know, I try to
put my players hat on because you always want to
take care of players. Players deserve contracts. But then you
you get on the other side of the business side
and say, hell, does this really make business sense that
I give a guy two hundred and fifty million. I
(29:39):
gotta tell him you gotta study four hours a day.
You know, like, at what point does it stop? The
thing is, and I guess you got to look at
it across the board, is you pay what the market
says you have to pay. It's not really dictated by
the quarterback position anymore. If a guy is good enough
(30:00):
and the market saying that he's he has to get
paid thirty five or forty million dollars a year. You
gotta pay what the market is. That guy's gonna go.
Somebody else is gonna do it right, And now you're gonna,
you know, kind of be in a in a situation
where you gotta find somebody else to bring in to
at least do what he did. And if it's not
anybody in the market, you gotta pay it right. I mean,
(30:22):
you know, you look at some of these situations. Man,
I want everybody to get paid. I really, I'm I'm like,
I love when guys get paid. So I hate to say, oh,
this guy don't deserve this, this guy don't deserve that,
because then you become the old salty dude, right, the
old you using something you know, like And that's one
thing I've always desplies. I've always desplied the older guys
(30:43):
that played, you know, in the eighties, nineties, early to like, hey, man,
is the game ain't like it used to be anymore?
That I said the best top all that just you
your time is up. It is past. Move on to
the side. Let these new guys go and get paid.
So you've had the privilege to play in the NFL
for for twelve years and now you're an owner of
lights out brand. Do you see the parallel difference between
(31:08):
when you were a player, how you thought business ran
and now that you're a business owner, our business is
actually ran. Yeah, well it's a big difference. I think
we talked a little bit earlier about you know, guys
getting paid in contracts and things like that. Um, sometimes
now and you don't see what goes on behind the
(31:28):
scenes right the time and effort. It's it's almost like
for us, right, everybody wants to be a coach until
you figure out there's ten and twelve our days, you know,
like you know, so for me now, um, you know,
seeing the production, seeing you know, the contract the contractual stuff,
the TV, the streaming we're on football TV, seeing all
(31:48):
the ticket sales, you know, making sure everybody has the tickets,
you know. We I'm sure you probably had situations where, um,
somebody was calling you our and a half before the
game for tickets, right like You're like, hey, look, well
you know, I gotta go play. So there are some similarities,
but I think being on this end, um, you know,
being a decision maker, there's a lot more pressure, um
(32:12):
because you know, if you don't, if you're working somewhere
and it's not on you, it's like, okay, cool, I
mess up and go to the next thing. Here. Messing
up can can mean, you know, partnerships here, Messing up
can mean you know, live on broadcasting or having something
not go well with the event. And so there are
a lot more tentacles to this, to this ship which
(32:35):
I'm enjoying. Don't get me wrong, I love I love
all of it. But there is a different kind of
mindset when it comes to that. Absolutely, And and what
what has helped you stay sharp and transfer and transferring
some of the successes that made you a great and
outstanding football player that has transferred over to making you
a great and successful business owner? What are some of those?
(32:58):
It's the ability to learn, man, And you know you don't.
I got all this great stuff going on, but it's
never a day to go by. Why I'm not learning something?
Somebody is not showing me, even if some of the
people I pay the work for me that that are
telling me things or I'm learning something about that particular
thing um, or how production is ran, how the satellite
trucks and TV and everything like everything. UM, so as
(33:22):
long as you never put yourself in a position where
you okay, it's mind you know, and I don't need
to learn anything. Nobody can tell me anything. It's it's
a constant learning process. But the best thing that I
like about it and seeing these uh you know, these
crazy ideas I got in my head to happen, you know,
like for me, it's like, okay, cool, if I don't
know something, I have you know, these ideas and then
(33:43):
bringing the right people to um to execute my thoughts.
And that's where, um, that's where I've had the most success, uh,
in my post career. Yeah, man, I think so from myself.
One of the things, that's two things that I don't
feel anybody really prepped me, you on, Uh, stepping away
from the game was for me when I retired, I
(34:06):
had too much energy Robin standing up to four am,
five am, because I'm not exerting that much energy anymore, right,
and so I had to figure out you know, fighting
picking up and it made myself to it to trying
to figure out how to release some of his energy. Um,
and then to nobody really ever told me how to
network it wasn't a playbook for it. You and I
both athletes. You know, if I know, if I give
(34:27):
you a workout plan and it told you to go
to the gym and do five sets of this and
sets of that, you'll do it. You'll do it just
like that, right, and you'll be successful at it because
you got a playbook. You gotta plan in front of you.
There wasn't really a plan in a playbook for us
to walk away from the game. Um. And one of
the things I had to learn is to be an
entrepreneur of my time. There's nobody waking you up, telling
(34:51):
you have to be somewhere, telling you what to do,
telling you what's right or what's wrong. You know, they
just it's just either a success or not. And so
how did you get to that headspace in the business world?
How did Sean Merriman put on that savvy business hat
and how to take lights out from the field. I think, um,
(35:11):
my mindset completely switched the first time I had a
big injury. UM. I think that as athletes, we all
we all walk around like we're invincible. Nothing can to
happen to us. With bigger, batting stronger than everybody else.
Were tougher than everybody else. And I think when I
had my first big knee injury, I realized that I
wasn't made it still and uh, from that point, and
that was in two thousand and eight, from that point on,
(35:33):
I started to really hone in. Now I've already, you know,
acquired the intellectual property for Lights Out by then in
two thousand and six, but I really started to hone
in on everything and learn the peril business learning and
learning about branding and marketing, and so I was doing
that while I was playing. So when I got done,
I was transitioning smoothly. And I try to tell a
lot of guys this, especially the ones that are coming
(35:56):
to the tail into their career. Whatever you want to do,
start doing it now. So instead of the off season
you go have you a little fun, go to Miami,
take your trips across the seeds, go do that for
a little bit because you need that. But for the
most part, start honing in on things you want to
do now. Because the hardest time for any athlete, and
I went through it myself, is that that first year,
(36:17):
maybe even two, when you get done, you're trying to
figure it out. I had a ton of things lined up.
I went straight to the TV. I was at my
show in the NFL network. I was doing, I had
some apparel stuff that I was doing. It was still
some days I was sitting around like damn, is this
really it? And I had a full day of stuff
and it just wasn't the same. So I can only imagine,
um what and that with somebody go through when they
(36:38):
when they don't have anything lined up, and that that
could be ten times tough or not anything that I
was ever dealing with myself at the time. Um And
so that's that's my kind of you know, key to
any athlete, that the transition to do well because we're
all gonna fall in our ass early on. I don't
care who you are. The thing is is that a
lot of these um uh people lump business just doing
(37:01):
whether it's a venture capital fund or whether it's anything
dealing in that space, tech tech or whatever. We're not.
Our job was to show up and work out, watch film,
run plays like that was our job. And we did
that since we were you know, ten of eleven years old.
So a lot of people have the head start on
us now when we catch up at and when we
(37:22):
really could catch up at it is our discipline. Most
people are not as discipline as we are. They're not
used to dealing with adversity like we are. They're not
used to pushing through tough times like we are, you know.
And so that's how we can catch up by by
you know, exerting our energy into being disciplined and learning
a craft. We catch on faster than anybody else. I mean,
(37:45):
but we just have to have that same mentality that
when we were watching film against the other team to
pick up when they play book and what they're doing. Yeah, absolutely, man,
And it's it's a that's a testament to you. I believe.
Usually the there's a difference between sw athletes and NFL players.
I say this all the time right in NFL players
of the guys that come in with book cool amounts
(38:06):
of talent and and out hurt quick injury. Um don't
know how to fight through adversity. I didn't understand the playboo,
couldn't understand teamwork, didn't understand the politics, would not take
the time to indulge in the professionalism your your pro
There's a guy a lot of times, Sean, you know,
you might not even know his full name, but he
played fifteen years on the team, you know, and cutting
(38:29):
checks and taking that money and investing right and you
know he's got stock and equity and so many different
things and you don't even know it's full name. That's
your pro and so it's I'm I'm glad man to
see as many athletes become pros um and so just
a testament that you're becoming a pro man um. I
do want to ask, because I did. There's a lot
(38:50):
of guys that don't understand the difference between m M
a UFC uh. They just see people in the ring fighting.
So if you could break down what's the difference between
some of the fighting elements that that that that our
viewers can see. You know, UM UFC had done such
a good job at branding. I look at them how
we look at Nike, right like when you go and
(39:12):
say that you're gonna go buy a pair of shoes,
you don't go buy pairs shoes. You're gonna buy a
pair of Nikes right when you got well, buy pag Abody,
gonna get Jordan's, I'm aboudy gonna get a Didas you know,
these companies have done such a great job at branding
that you don't even know what it is, right, And
so when people even I talked to them, don't know
the sport of animated like oh yeah, yeah, you got
the UFC, Like, no, no, my league is different. It's
(39:33):
not UFC. But what they know of is UFC because
they branded and they would sell so well and they've
done a great job of that. But m it MAY
has mixed martial large. That's the that's the form of fighting, right,
that's the form of the of the discipline. Um. And
there's there's multiple disciplines right, uh, muetai and boxing and
all all this stuff. But in it May UFC has
(39:56):
gotten So they did such a good job at branding
themselves that most people think the UFC is M M
A when there's two totally different things. It's kind of
like chaf stick. Somebody ask for chaf stick. They forget
that that's actually a brand that you're asking for. You know, Google,
I'm gonna go google something that's a brand. That's a brand.
(40:17):
So UFC has done one heck of a jail. So
so we're we're more of a of a farm league, right,
um um, you know, we we get we got the
next up and coming stars and guys getting ready for
the UFC um, which turns out to be a really
good thing for us because there's a ton of fighters
in this country, in this world. Really they need fights,
and so they can't get enough fights from the UFC.
(40:38):
They can't go there um just yet. So we give
these guys and women an opportunity to come and fight
for us, because that's what they want to do, full living.
They want to fight. And sometimes it's not enough for him.
Got you? So, Sean, I gotta put you on the
spot a little bit and ask you to put on
your don King hat. Al right, so right now today
and m m A who would be parallel to your
(41:00):
would be Mike Tyson versus a Vander holy Field fight
right now today? If you had what would be the
pacquiale versus Floyd Mayweather fight today, if you can put
one together, if you had your druthers the lights up,
who would you put? Um? Yeah? It just three weeks
ago I would have said it was us, been right,
(41:22):
Who's mine? And but you know that's the crazy thing
about the sport. He got knocked out with a headcuck um,
and so I don't know, it's so hard man. And
and this is this is why it's so hard to compare,
because May has caught up the boxing. Uh as far
as popularity that the fan base is more rabid. Uh
(41:42):
people watch more m May now than they do boxing.
Is because every week the best is fighting the best,
right and so um, you know John Jones and to
me personally is the the greatest him and May fighter
of all time. So um, I can't wait to see
him fight. Um. You of Francis in Ghana. You know,
(42:02):
I think that if they can never put that fight together,
it would be the biggest fight probably in the last
few years of M A in general. Um, I would
I would, you know, if if it had, if I
had my way, I would put that fight together in
a second. Um. But you got some other ones out there. Obviously,
people love to see counter fight. He has such a
Conama Gregor, because he has such a fan base, he's
(42:24):
going to bring the eyeballs. Um, you know I would.
I would love to see him, uh fight Michael Chandler. Um,
you know, I would love to see him fight Chandler.
So there's about five fights. Man, if I had you know,
my hand in it, I would I would try to
make happen. Um. But overall, man every week and even
made the best fighting the best, absolutely, and that's that's
what I appreciate it about it so much. And these
(42:45):
guys putting literally everything on the line. I'm a big
fan of Cold Man. I wish I love to see
him fight all day. Yeah, and you know he um
could be is a great fighter. Probably go down was
one of the greatest, but he'll never be the greatest
because he stopped to really um. And so you know,
with that being said, you know John Jones is the
greatest make fight out of all time. Got you love it,
(43:08):
love it? And so so tell us what's next, what's on?
What's next? What's Sean working on every day? What can
we look forward to come out of your bag next? Um?
I got I'm actually building a fighting entertainment venue. I'll
kind of be able to talk about that here in
the next thirty or six days. What everything is done? Um?
But you know, I just I turned what lights out
also into a real estate play man where we just
(43:30):
want to have fights, have our own venue. You have
to not have to worry about picking certain days and stuff.
We want to throw more fights, um, other than that
just growing a brand Lights Out, that's really big meetings
today in New York. Um, gonna launch the apparel again
here soon and and and go crazy with that. So
um it's fun. Man. This is I can't really necessarily
call it work, um because I'm doing what I want
(43:53):
to do. Uh, And I'm doing what I love to do,
and not too many people, especially the light that we
left before and doing out what we love when we
grew up wanting to do to get a chance to
redo it all that over again as something else. So man,
I'm just you know, I'm just fortunate and uh, and
keep grinding this thing out. Man, I just want lights
Out to be number one what I want one Lights
(44:15):
Out to be just as a whole, as a brand,
as a company. Um. Two when you start talking about
certain things, to start talking about lights up. So Sean,
you've had an opportunity to build this brand and and
doing so, you've uh creative relationships, Dana White being one
of them. Who is he to you? And um, how
much have you had a chance to learn from him?
(44:38):
You know? Dana? Um? You know if you look at
the sport M A and this we just talking about
brands and brand recognition and brand acknowledgement. Um, look look
what he's done and the Fatina's Look what they've done
to this sport in the last twenty years. Um. And
so for me, I know what it takes to build that.
(45:00):
And it's a lot of things going up behind the
scenes that people don't know, right, and a lot of nose,
a lot of doors slammed in your face, a lot
of Hey, this this sport is never gonna be big.
I'm sure they was told that a thousand times early on.
And so first and foremost, I just I just admired
the hell out of them for that reason, because I
know how hard it is to push through um that
(45:21):
many nose and people telling you that, hey, this thing
is not gonna make it. Um. So from a distance,
even before we really even got to know each other,
you got a chance to be around each other, I
just admired it from the distance. Um, that part of it, Alan,
And then the second part of it is is that
you know he's been in the fight game, and um,
you know somebody that if I had questions, mean, you know,
(45:42):
he always tell me he comes, you know, come by
the office. You know, let's let's talk let's meet up,
you know whatever. And so when you have somebody that
that's already done what you're trying to do, um, and
you're doing it a different capacity, right because our following,
my following is a lot from the NFL, which is
the biggest sport in the country. UM, and I think
(46:03):
that you know, m m A is kind of slowly
creeping on right behind that. And so just to pick
his brain if I had a question about something that's
valuable and I I don't take those things lightly, you know.
And I think that once people understand the sport and
understand how big and the brand they've built, to me,
it's never really competition there. Um. What I would like
to do is I would like him to, uh, in
(46:24):
the UFC in general, just acknowledge the talent that we
have and be able to pull some of the guys up.
Because my whole goal in this in this business is
to give fight has more opportunities to fight and build
a better life for themselves. And if that is going
to UFC to build their brand, to get more white balls,
to to make more money, whatever that might be, then
I'll do that. So there's a there's no competition. There
(46:44):
has always been, you know, very very mutual respect um,
and just more of an admiration for for what he's built.
I'm just coming at it at at a completely different
angle because of the platform that I've I've had with
the NFL and being able to build it with this
I love that man. Love. And before I let you go, uh,
since we both played football, Man, if you could put
if you could put two monsters NFL ball players in
(47:08):
the ring and let them go at it, who would
you enjoy seeing? It can be it could obviously gotta
be even at d N verse, d N linebacker, linebacker, quarterback, quarterback.
But if you could put together a good a good string,
who who would you like to see get in the ring?
I would like I would like to see Aaron Donald
and Richie Incarnito. I wouldn't. I would. I would love
(47:29):
to see you know like that. That's that to me,
that's a fight. That's it broad you know, you know
those guys gonna get after it. Um. Yeah, So I
mean I would love to see Aaron Donald and Richie Incarnito,
somebody you know, one of those big mastery guys, um
and Aaron Donald getting their scraped up. Well, I listen
(47:50):
if they decided to do it, We'll make sure it
happened under lights out. Man. I appreciate your time as always,
proud of you, happy for you. Still look up to you. Man,
Keep knocking lights out. Appreciate it, Broth. Hey, guys, thanks
for tuning into an episode of the Bag for Shan
Jennings and Linzie McCormick. Is fine. Production is done by
Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
(48:13):
My Heart Radio, please visit the I Heart Radio at
Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, Grea
Never No Never, I who got Big? Hey guys, welcome
to our very first episode of Sports Illustrated and I
(00:22):
Heart Radios The Bag. I'm Lyndzy Vakorvic and I'm joined
by I was gonna say lovely co host, but I
don't know if that's the best word to describe you.
I feel like well, well spoken, thought provoking kind I
was trying to think of a really good compliments. So
(00:48):
my co host Rashawn Jennings and I this our very
first episode of the Bag, and I think we should
start our very first episode by telling people why we're
even doing this show to begin with, and some of
the things that they can look forward to, and then
our first season of the Bag. Yeah. So for me,
I'll first of all lindsay, I'm so excited to do this. UM.
(01:10):
I've been looking forward to an opportunity to work with
you more. I'm excited about the Bag because we're gonna
bring on different guests to actually talk about how they
got to their bag, their bag being in reference to
financial security, their bag being in reference to their creativity
right carving out their own life, their own route, the
(01:31):
unique journey UM, and and hopefully to inspire not only us,
but our viewers on our listeners to to to find
their bag um and to share it. There's no point
of having a bag if you ain't gonna share to
show somebody. So I look forward to bringing bring the
best out of people in this form. I'm actually shocked
that this show has never been done before, and I
(01:51):
think the reason that we need to do it now
is because of some of these things. So the world
of sports is growing exponentially. You have increasing market are
across the board with major sports leagues. You have sports gambling,
new streaming sites beyond behind the scenes experiences that people
are paying to watch. Every year, these enterprises grow in
(02:11):
size and depth, but also in breadth and the past
ten years, like ten years ago we never thought we
would see gambling sponsors, and fifteen years ago we never
could have predicted how big fantasy sports would be and
now e sports. So now is the time to talk
about all these things. Also on the bag, we're gonna
(02:32):
explore athletes and they now have their own brands and
control over their own content because of social media, and
you see marketing agencies and media having to adjust around this.
Athletes are more entrepreneurial as you know Rashad athletes have
side hustles and what they're doing when after they retire
(02:54):
picking up new careers. One of the stories that I
just found so fascinating was Tim Duncan's car customization company
in San Antonio and Shaquille O'Neil's wildly successful DJ business,
which will dive more into the season. Uh. Also, there's
the infrastructure behind these athletes pushing them onto the field. Recently,
(03:16):
Lebron James said that he put a million dollars into
his body during the off season. So we'll look into
the budget on this, We'll talk to the nutritionists, the
European specialists, the cryotherapy. There's an entire world we can
tap into, and now imagine that all that information is
in one place, and that's the bag. And I really
feel like Rashade, you and I are the perfect people
(03:38):
to bring the show to the world because I've covered
sports as a journalist and broadcaster for the past fourteen
years and branched out into entrepreneurial ventures and angel investing,
and rashand you played in the league, which your experience
playing in the NFL, and you've been very successful as
well inside ventures. So both of us have our our
(04:00):
feet in both both ends of the pond. Is that
the phrase, yeah, the ends of the spectrum ponds? Uh?
We we were all in and I agree. Um. You
know with this particular podcast where you know, what makes
it unique is to both our perspectives and myself, I'm
a true audor to that. I'm addicted to learning new things.
I come from a point six g p a too
(04:22):
in English to all of a sudden New York Time bestseller. Um.
I've been able to transform my life and do many
one eighties and so uh, the authenticity to learn um
from my end has been true. I wasn't a guy
that just had the red carpet rolled out, um, and
so I had to dig and learn. When you learn
how to do something versus when you're skillful and gifted
(04:44):
at it, the perk is you actually now know how
to teach. I'm really really excited to bring on some
of the guests, uh, to explore them in a unique way.
You had a great interview you did that. Listeners will
be able to hear at the end of this episode
with Sean Merriman, and it was listening to this interview,
(05:08):
it was like listening to two guys in the locker room.
It was a type of insider look at sports and
the business of sports and life after sports that you
typically don't get to hear. So I found it extremely fascinating. Yeah,
Sean's a man. Uh you know, Sean is that guy,
and he he keeps it real, he keeps it on,
(05:29):
he keeps it truthful. He's gonna be open to tell
you what where where, His ebbs and flows are his
raw opinion. And I like this form because, especially when
you're dealing with athletes and professional um men and women,
certain things you are not allowed to say in corporate
have to keep a pc um. In this form, we
don't use the rhetoric of how was the game? Of
(05:52):
course the game was good? How do you feel that
you lost? Well, of course I feel bad. Right. You
can't trash out people or you can't tell the truth
all the time to a stream media. So I'm excited
to open this form to a little bit of authenticity
from my guess I it's funny you say that, because
I feel like all the Sideline reporters and myself included,
asked the same although I tried not to being aware
(06:13):
of this, the same questions and get the same response,
the same politically correct response from every athlete. So how
did that feel? They hurt? They hit me? What do
you think? How much do you love your team? They're
gonna trade me tomorrow? What do you mean? You just
won the national championship? How excited are you? You have
(06:39):
some master Blockbuster deals signed, and these huge contracts signed.
During the off season. You had Kyler Murray where all
the details of his entire contract, including his video game
playing time were were shown to everyone. Then you had
Deshaun Watson with all of his guaranteed money, and now
as of last week, you had Russell Wilson just signed
(07:02):
the deal with the Broncos. So what are your thoughts
on all of this? I love it, Lindsay. I love
to see the players get paid as they deserve it. Um.
You know, when I was playing, I felt a lot
of the players was getting underpaid. I truly do. And
even the numbers that you're seeing come across the TV,
you still gotta keep in mind if this is what
the players are getting paid, and that every owner still
(07:25):
tries to undervalue their employees, what value is still missing?
So I like to see the number go up, and
I hope it continues. Obviously, it's fun to look at
these big numbers and these big contracts and marvel at them.
But every year the contracts keep getting bigger and bigger
and bigger, which begs the question why. Absolutely well one perspective.
(07:48):
I don't believe general public considers why contracts are getting larger. Yes,
market and demand and all of those things, but players
are just simply getting smarter, period, point blank. Um. I
hate to say it, but you know, in the early
you know, possibly eighties, Um, there wasn't a stipulation for
(08:12):
athletes to be on football fields even bar even going
back down to high school. I believe I was one
of the last generations where you could play football without
having high school have a g p A of a
certain stature. Um, lord knows, because I had a point
six at one point in time. So as you forced
athletes to get smarter, like some some guys used to
(08:34):
show up drunk, drugs and you know, sex and rock
and roll and I on a football field and close
line of people, and it was it was a different era.
It was a different game, um, and they helped build
this game to where it is today. But see the
NFL that forced education on players, being that you had
(08:55):
to have a two point three g p A to
play high school football, you had had a two point
five hide the college to get by, and you're forcing
smart athletes. Well what happened is a decade later, here
comes those smart athletes and understanding their value. Right, and
so now when you have players that are smart and
(09:15):
athletic on your roster, they understand their market value. So
pay me more. Right, some of the best athletes by
are you. There's not one player in the NFL that
you could talk to that would not agree that the
best athletes are in prison. I'm gonna tell you the
only reason I was in the NFL is because I
(09:37):
had knew ten other guys that would not make the
right decisions in high school, and I would make the
right decisions. It's not that I was good, it was
that you didn't see them even play. You were involved
in the Players Association. M yeah, I was an NFL player. Up.
You're a player rap. Do you feel like when you
look at all the other player associations, do you feel
(09:58):
like the NFL is it has some way ways to
go to catch up to the other leagues in terms
of the players Association because I've heard some comments before
that the NFL p A is the weakest one in
terms of sports. I could see why. UM, I don't
believe it's the weakest. I think we get often compared
(10:21):
to the NBA, which they do a good job with
their players. UM. There is a different pool of money
divided by the athlete. However, UM, I do think that
the NFL p A UM has been doing an okay job.
I think we missed the ball, missed the ballpark in
(10:41):
a few ways. UM. I think that, uh, you know,
in a part of negotiating, you can't get at all.
And I think that we're playing behind the eight ball
because we put our union together of in retrospect most
recently in comparison to the NFL owners have been running
the show for very long time. So it's gonna take
us a while, UM to even out to play and
(11:04):
feel more. However, you know, UM, we got a ways ago.
We've done a lot of amazing things, and I think
that they're trying and they should continue to focus on
how to take care of UM. There are retirees because
you will you will be a retired football player well
longer then you play in the NFL. Unless you're Tom Brady.
(11:28):
You know, Thomas seems like he's ageless. Did He's he's
a different breed. But I'm um, I think the NFL
p A has again a long ways ago. But I'm
happy where the progression is and uh and I'm thankful
that they're not satisfied either. You said more athletes are
getting into media speaking in life after career on the field. Explain, Yeah,
(11:56):
athletes are getting You see more athletes. It's being the
faces of different media companies. You have ESPN, NFL Network, Fox,
even you look at n b A and you start
looking at the cast, they're athletes everywhere. It used to
be I feel like less than almost maybe even a
(12:18):
decade ago, where you had more people talking about the
sport that we play that never have played the sport
at a college level. And so what happens is you
you you get more perspective from the field, from the court, right.
And once again I I parlay from what I said earlier.
(12:41):
The NFL forced smarter athletes on the football field, and
now these athletes understand their craft, and so now these
athletes are able to articulate their craft, which puts them
in front of the microphone. Which now that's why you
see more athletes exposing the game and also the business
behind it. M awesome, awesome insight. But the fact still
(13:06):
remains though that the pie is getting bigger as well. Absolutely,
without a doubt, the pods continuing to get bigger. We
get more and more of that poes good pie. It's
really good pie. So and and and I honestly just
like any other company and any other business, and I
don't ever want anybody to think it's the athlete versus
the owners, not a versus is let's work together more appropriately.
(13:27):
And I will say this too, I will say athletes
are if you if you watch, athletes are representing themselves more. Um,
they're saving their three percent and turning that three percent
straight into attacks right off, right into their own business
and companies rather than paying an agent two piggyback to
(13:49):
three percent off of something that they do one time. UM,
we've we've kind of encouraged companies, marketing companies to work
being on just an agency. Um. Players realize how to
monetize off their social media. Which now you look at
(14:09):
your agent for different olife, it's like, hey, mr agent,
you're doing nothing for me. Beside it, the kind of
making sure the language is what it says it is,
But you're not bringing me any other type of money.
I think I just rather hire a lawyer look over
the contract and hire a marketing team, which then agents like, wow,
I gotta get a marketing team behind me too. I
got so again, more education. It's really the cycle of
(14:32):
WHI players are getting more money on in off the field.
I'll tell you what. When I was an athlete, my
first agent um and I have nothing bad to say
about my agent, but I think he's awesome. But one
thing he didn't want me to do is become an
NFL player REP. I was voted by my peers and
I counsel that with him, and he said, now you
should focus on football. Made sense. I didn't do it.
(14:54):
Got voted again by my peers. Have become an NFL
player REP. He said, focus for football. Didn't do it,
got voted again, and I decided to accept it. And
once I accepted it, a lightbulb went off. I said,
I see why he didn't want me to become an
NFL player, right, because he knows me, and he knows
I'm going to figure out how to represent myself, and
I'm privy to too much knowledge for you to tell
(15:16):
me that, Hey, don't worry, I'll take care of this
for you. Um, athletes are getting smarter. So lindsay you
have mentioned about the poly getting larger. Why do you
believe the pod is getting larger in all sports? Oh,
there's so many reasons, but one of those is because
of these streaming services. The NFL just launched NFL Plus,
(15:38):
which is a director consumer streaming service. And I think
one of the reasons they did that was because they
noticed that the contract with a T and T and
Direct TV on Sunday ticket is their contracts up at
the end of the season, and they wanted to be
competitive and they wanted to how drive up the price
(16:03):
for this Sunday ticket because they can go to people
like Amazon, um and other companies that are in the
mix for this and say, I mean even Netflix, I
think is maybe in the mix and say, you know,
if you're not gonna pay us X amount, well then
we'll just put it on our We'll just stream it ourselves.
And I think you see companies like Disney Plus, Paramount Plus,
(16:27):
like people want their own content. People want to have
that and it's making the pie larger because it's bring
out more competition. And if you actually look at the
NFL Plus deal is exclusive to mobile and tablet. It
is not television, and that's it. The only information they
know is your your your your geographical area of where
(16:50):
you're watching television. That's the only thing that they can
consume UM from the network. But see when you get
on your mobile and when you get on your tablet.
Now is a different kind of consuming of data for them.
Not only do they know who, what you're doing, where
you're watching it, how much you're watching it on a tablet,
(17:10):
watching a commercial when you're getting off of the commercial,
so much data and information is being received through your phone,
mobile and your tablet. If you it's just like clicking
on UM, it's like clicking on the website and it
asks you to join in through Facebook. Why they ask
you through to join in through Facebook and so they
(17:30):
could continue to receive some of those cookies and data
and study behaviors, temperaments, how to sell to you and
that matadata. They can sell that to other sponsors. So
like it's all about information. I think the NFL understands, uh,
information and data is essentially the new age oil and
(17:51):
if they can rab our data on where we are,
what we're watching, why we like it, what we like
every time you press alike, it's consuming information about your behavior.
Now we can sell to you. Now we can give
you what you want. Because everybody's picking up their phone
looking for what they want. The NFL saying, well, they're
(18:12):
picking it up half of the year looking at us,
So let's figure out more information about our consumers. So
the NFL is getting smarter as well. They want to follow,
they want to follow you. Speaking of data, you now
have all the casino fan dual type of sponsors for
(18:33):
the NFL that are making the NFL over a billion
dollars a year, which is again like in terms of data,
I can't think of a better way to have access
to someone's data and financial information than some of these
gambling and and betting sponsors and their websites. It feels
(18:54):
like the NFL just keeps finding more and more ways
to make money, which is why the pie keeps getting
larger and our tur absolutely and they're gonna continue to
do that. The way it's how can we consume this game?
So to bring a full circle Forbes, just released their
valuations of the teams. We know that the Broncos sold
(19:15):
this past year, and the one I found the most
interesting was the Browns. Even with the craziness of giving
a contractor to Shaun Watson and him not being able
to play and playing paying Baker Mayfield is not playing
for them and the decisions they've made this offseason, their
(19:37):
valuation went up forty eight percent, just to show exactly
why these teams can make these poor decisions and not
base repercussions, because again, the pie is still getting bigger.
For the teams and for the NFL. It's crazy and Lindslie.
That was all too interesting, um so much so let's
(20:01):
tap back into another interesting conversation I was able to
have with the legend himself, Mr Shawn Merriman. What's up, everybody?
Appreciate you'all tuning in right now. I got a real
good friend of mine. He really needs no introduction, but
I'm gonna given one. He's a three time Pro bowler,
first round draft pick Fox analysts. He also owns the
(20:21):
brand in which he earned his name from lights Out
when he was in high school. I can't wait to
get into that segment. None other than Sean Merriman. How
you doing, man, what's up? Brother? How you doing? Man? Yeah,
I'll tell you. I'm good as you look. So I'm straight. Hey.
So so where a where about? Where are you in
the world right now? I mean, I'm currently in New Jersey.
(20:43):
My my son lives here. He plays football, um, quarterback
at that So I don't know how that. I don't
know how that happened. But uh, he had his first
game yesterday, man, so he looked good. And then obviously
I was taking my meetings in New New York all today.
So always I'm the East Coaster man. So it's good
to get back nice. So I gotta know he playing quarterback. Um,
(21:07):
you chase him, you chase him around? I do. I did.
I did actually get to getting warmed up, man. I said, Look,
if you can get away from me, you can get
away from any one of these kids out here. So
facts facts man. Oh, So I know you're traveling a lot.
I know you're still connected with the Chargers. I gotta
know how they looking this year in your opinion. I
(21:27):
know they're in the stack division. It's gonna be tough,
but they are loaded that they are, man. Um, you know,
about about three weeks ago, they asked me to come
out and coach the outside linebackers, mainly the younger guys
because it's not really too much culture. You can do
the Joey Boson and and Khalil Mack. You know, those
guys are already all pro and possibly Hall of Famous
one day. But I got a chance to coach the
(21:48):
younger guys and really, for the first time, I saw
that defense and that that team, how they were cohesive. Man.
And I know, you know, we've experienced like seeing names,
big names on paper, team built on paper and they
go out and stink it up during the year, but
it's just not that situation. Like they they are as
good in person as they are on paper. And to
(22:08):
be honest, um, I don't think we've seen a team
like this, uh since Meyer since we you know, we
started playing. So they got a real shot. Man. I
know everybody got better in the division, which is which
is great, but I can't see them not winning the
division the ship. Yeah, and you talk about teams, so
you more than anybody understand secrenocity of team. And I'm
(22:29):
curious as being an o G now giving back to
the younger guys, and you here always always growing up
that offense sell tickets, defense win championship. The way the
game is played today, is that still true? It's always
gonna be true. Well, I mean because at the end
of the day, um, you know, you can put up
(22:51):
all the points you want, but you're gonna have that
that the very few seconds of minutes at the end
of the game where that defense has to hold up.
We have to win. Um. And we seeing some Super Bowls, man,
where it was just a how most people see this
boring when when you got those uh, those fourteen games,
those you know, twelve to ten like that, those are
those are my I think those games are exciting because
(23:13):
you know, for me, it's, um, you know, chess match,
and I love to see chess matches, even though people
other people love to see the points. Absolutely. I'm curious.
I got a question because coming from a running back standpoint,
you know, there's games where I've carried the ball about
thirty times, right, thirty times in the game, and then
there's been games where I've carried the ball maybe five Now,
(23:34):
coming out of the game, it would seem like I
would be damaged, I would feel hurt. I was tired.
I was drained out if I carried the ball thirty times,
But I seem to be more healthy. I seem to
be feel way better after a game that I carried
thirty than five. I'm curious, from a defensive standpoint, just
your career, did you feel better or worse on whether
(23:56):
you saved your body or performed a life I either
be honest, man, I'm a you know, I'm an adrenaline junkie.
So I love the contact. I love the physicality, and
I love that, like that's why I played the game.
And so if it was a game where I didn't
get a lot of contact, maybe you know, the teams
are running counters the other way, it's just cutting off
the back of the edge, and and I couldn't get involved.
(24:17):
I didn't feel as I didn't feel as good like
I love I love him trying to run the line
up and run power did at me with with the
with the fullback right downhill, like those were mind? What's
my type of games where I'm like I felt better
about against the reason why I played the game. And
I also feel like I was I was involved, like
I did something to help our defense with like if
I didn't. I'm sitting back like, Man, I didn't. I
(24:39):
didn't do nothing, you know, So it wasn't a great
feeling for me. I didn't do anything. Yeah, And you've
been fortunate enough to play on some really good teams, um.
And also a part of that is because you've played
with some which I deemed to be a Hall of
fame quarterback in Philip rivers Um. And so with that
being said, the chart just have a quarterback right now,
(25:02):
that's under center. That's the command of the team, franchise QB.
How high of hopes and steaks do the organization have
for him? And do you believe he can live up
to those expectations? Yeah, no question about it. Man. I
got a chance to meet him last year. UM, And
(25:25):
to be honest, I didn't know how big this dude was. Like,
you know, he came in and I was I was
shooting a show for the Charges, and I asked, I said, hey, man,
is Herbert around? I want to meet him? And so he,
you know, one of the most humble, quiet dudes that
you'll ever meet at that position. He's and he's already
a star in the league. And you know, if he
(25:45):
if he has that same attitude. If he keeps that
same kind of level headedness about him, I mean, there's
no doubt about it, he'll go down as one of
the best to ever do it. And more importantly, man,
it's it's so many things about his game that you
just on find Like, like I said, he's a side
when you see him on the feel he doesn't move
like a guy that big, right, Philip, God bless his soul. Man.
(26:08):
He was great. Uh. He was an ultimate competitor, probably
the most competitive player that I've ever played with. Um,
but he didn't have those physical attributes like Justin Herbert does. Yeah.
And didn't you actually, uh, didn't you have encounters with
Philip before being on the team with Yeah? You know
(26:28):
if I love it for you to share that, because
I know we got some big football fans here and
quite often they only see them at the pro level
and that's it and their friends or teammates. But you
had interactions with Philip Rivers competing against him prior to
being on team, So tell us about that. Yeah, I went,
I went to University Maryland. He was at NC State,
and to be honest, I hated him, you know, I
(26:49):
literally I hated that dude, because you know, when we
watch film and we don't watch the we don't watch
the TV copies like everybody else, you can't see and stuff.
And here with the commentators saying, but when you watch
film in the film room, all you've seen is this dude,
your head jerking back and forth. So you know, he
was always talking, pointing at guys like, you know, giving
a little bumped after the play. Just he was always
(27:10):
doing something. I said, I said, man, we when we
see these dudes, I'm going to him seventeen. I'm gonna
trying to take his head off because he you know,
he just he never stopped talking. And they had one
play at the end of the game in their home.
At the very last play in the game, I came
and I almost sucked and he dumped the ball off
but I hit him at the back of the ends
all and I'm getting up and this dude is twisting
(27:31):
my ankle as I'm now. No, don't get me wrong,
I pushed off. I pushed off his chest, you know
I did. I pushed off to get up, and as
I was walking away, I felt somebody talking at my
leg and I turned around to fill up and I
said I'm gonna fight up right here, right now. He
got up and we're squaring off in the back of it.
He was ready to go, and all of a sudden,
(27:52):
you know, at that point, I said, Man, this this guy,
he's different. He's different. And um, he got a lot
of respect, man. But the ultimate I mean, they're not
very many players or people like fail. Man. He was
just a special breed. Yeah. Man, Absolutely love that competitive
as that he brings to the table. And I think
that kind of leader in the locker room rings bells.
(28:13):
Absolutely man. And so talking about the quarterback position, we
see the game is predominantly round around the quarterback. You
have to have one to win. Um. With that being said,
you see some of these contracts that are being handed
out by the NFL, earned by players. Some of them
are so large. You know, you got Patrick Mahomes close
to half a billion dollars. You got Deshaun Washston just
(28:35):
got paid. Um, you have Cala Murray that just got paid.
Do you think that to two questions, do you think
we ever see the day where NFL players get fully
guaranteed contracts? And do you think the owners moving forward,
uh could potentially change how they view contracts with NFL
(28:57):
players because we see a situation like to shine watching
not on the feel performing um. And you see an
issue with Kylin Murray them deciding to put uh some
preliminary language in there saying that you must study. So
do you think these things kind of coincide with each
other that we may or may not see fully guarantee economy. Yeah,
(29:18):
and that's that's gonna be a big part of it.
But the other part of it too. We we just
play a physical game and it's it's not promised. And
you know, I've always uh, you know, I try to
put my players hat on because you always want to
take care of players. Players deserve contracts. But then you
you get on the other side of the business side
and say, hell, does this really make business sense that
I give a guy two hundred and fifty million. I
(29:39):
gotta tell him you gotta study four hours a day.
You know, like, at what point does it stop? The
thing is, and I guess you got to look at
it across the board, is you pay what the market
says you have to pay. It's not really dictated by
the quarterback position anymore. If a guy is good enough
(30:00):
and the market saying that he's he has to get
paid thirty five or forty million dollars a year. You
gotta pay what the market is. That guy's gonna go.
Somebody else is gonna do it right, And now you're gonna,
you know, kind of be in a in a situation
where you gotta find somebody else to bring in to
at least do what he did. And if it's not
anybody in the market, you gotta pay it right. I mean,
(30:22):
you know, you look at some of these situations. Man,
I want everybody to get paid. I really, I'm I'm like,
I love when guys get paid. So I hate to say, oh,
this guy don't deserve this, this guy don't deserve that,
because then you become the old salty dude, right, the
old you using something you know, like And that's one
thing I've always desplies. I've always desplied the older guys
(30:43):
that played, you know, in the eighties, nineties, early to like, hey, man,
is the game ain't like it used to be anymore?
That I said the best top all that just you
your time is up. It is past. Move on to
the side. Let these new guys go and get paid.
So you've had the privilege to play in the NFL
for for twelve years and now you're an owner of
lights out brand. Do you see the parallel difference between
(31:08):
when you were a player, how you thought business ran
and now that you're a business owner, our business is
actually ran. Yeah, well it's a big difference. I think
we talked a little bit earlier about you know, guys
getting paid in contracts and things like that. Um, sometimes
now and you don't see what goes on behind the
(31:28):
scenes right the time and effort. It's it's almost like
for us, right, everybody wants to be a coach until
you figure out there's ten and twelve our days, you know,
like you know, so for me now, um, you know,
seeing the production, seeing you know, the contract the contractual stuff,
the TV, the streaming we're on football TV, seeing all
(31:48):
the ticket sales, you know, making sure everybody has the tickets,
you know. We I'm sure you probably had situations where, um,
somebody was calling you our and a half before the
game for tickets, right like You're like, hey, look, well
you know, I gotta go play. So there are some similarities,
but I think being on this end, um, you know,
being a decision maker, there's a lot more pressure, um
(32:12):
because you know, if you don't, if you're working somewhere
and it's not on you, it's like, okay, cool, I
mess up and go to the next thing. Here. Messing
up can can mean, you know, partnerships here, Messing up
can mean you know, live on broadcasting or having something
not go well with the event. And so there are
a lot more tentacles to this, to this ship which
(32:35):
I'm enjoying. Don't get me wrong, I love I love
all of it. But there is a different kind of
mindset when it comes to that. Absolutely, And and what
what has helped you stay sharp and transfer and transferring
some of the successes that made you a great and
outstanding football player that has transferred over to making you
a great and successful business owner? What are some of those?
(32:58):
It's the ability to learn, man, And you know you don't.
I got all this great stuff going on, but it's
never a day to go by. Why I'm not learning something?
Somebody is not showing me, even if some of the
people I pay the work for me that that are
telling me things or I'm learning something about that particular
thing um, or how production is ran, how the satellite
trucks and TV and everything like everything. UM, so as
(33:22):
long as you never put yourself in a position where
you okay, it's mind you know, and I don't need
to learn anything. Nobody can tell me anything. It's it's
a constant learning process. But the best thing that I
like about it and seeing these uh you know, these
crazy ideas I got in my head to happen, you know,
like for me, it's like, okay, cool, if I don't
know something, I have you know, these ideas and then
(33:43):
bringing the right people to um to execute my thoughts.
And that's where, um, that's where I've had the most success, uh,
in my post career. Yeah, man, I think so from myself.
One of the things, that's two things that I don't
feel anybody really prepped me, you on, Uh, stepping away
from the game was for me when I retired, I
(34:06):
had too much energy Robin standing up to four am,
five am, because I'm not exerting that much energy anymore, right,
and so I had to figure out you know, fighting
picking up and it made myself to it to trying
to figure out how to release some of his energy. Um,
and then to nobody really ever told me how to
network it wasn't a playbook for it. You and I
both athletes. You know, if I know, if I give
(34:27):
you a workout plan and it told you to go
to the gym and do five sets of this and
sets of that, you'll do it. You'll do it just
like that, right, and you'll be successful at it because
you got a playbook. You gotta plan in front of you.
There wasn't really a plan in a playbook for us
to walk away from the game. Um. And one of
the things I had to learn is to be an
entrepreneur of my time. There's nobody waking you up, telling
(34:51):
you have to be somewhere, telling you what to do,
telling you what's right or what's wrong. You know, they
just it's just either a success or not. And so
how did you get to that headspace in the business world?
How did Sean Merriman put on that savvy business hat
and how to take lights out from the field. I think, um,
(35:11):
my mindset completely switched the first time I had a
big injury. UM. I think that as athletes, we all
we all walk around like we're invincible. Nothing can to
happen to us. With bigger, batting stronger than everybody else.
Were tougher than everybody else. And I think when I
had my first big knee injury, I realized that I
wasn't made it still and uh, from that point, and
that was in two thousand and eight, from that point on,
(35:33):
I started to really hone in. Now I've already, you know,
acquired the intellectual property for Lights Out by then in
two thousand and six, but I really started to hone
in on everything and learn the peril business learning and
learning about branding and marketing, and so I was doing
that while I was playing. So when I got done,
I was transitioning smoothly. And I try to tell a
lot of guys this, especially the ones that are coming
(35:56):
to the tail into their career. Whatever you want to do,
start doing it now. So instead of the off season
you go have you a little fun, go to Miami,
take your trips across the seeds, go do that for
a little bit because you need that. But for the
most part, start honing in on things you want to
do now. Because the hardest time for any athlete, and
I went through it myself, is that that first year,
(36:17):
maybe even two, when you get done, you're trying to
figure it out. I had a ton of things lined up.
I went straight to the TV. I was at my
show in the NFL network. I was doing, I had
some apparel stuff that I was doing. It was still
some days I was sitting around like damn, is this
really it? And I had a full day of stuff
and it just wasn't the same. So I can only imagine,
um what and that with somebody go through when they
(36:38):
when they don't have anything lined up, and that that
could be ten times tough or not anything that I
was ever dealing with myself at the time. Um And
so that's that's my kind of you know, key to
any athlete, that the transition to do well because we're
all gonna fall in our ass early on. I don't
care who you are. The thing is is that a
lot of these um uh people lump business just doing
(37:01):
whether it's a venture capital fund or whether it's anything
dealing in that space, tech tech or whatever. We're not.
Our job was to show up and work out, watch film,
run plays like that was our job. And we did
that since we were you know, ten of eleven years old.
So a lot of people have the head start on
us now when we catch up at and when we
(37:22):
really could catch up at it is our discipline. Most
people are not as discipline as we are. They're not
used to dealing with adversity like we are. They're not
used to pushing through tough times like we are, you know.
And so that's how we can catch up by by
you know, exerting our energy into being disciplined and learning
a craft. We catch on faster than anybody else. I mean,
(37:45):
but we just have to have that same mentality that
when we were watching film against the other team to
pick up when they play book and what they're doing. Yeah, absolutely, man,
And it's it's a that's a testament to you. I believe.
Usually the there's a difference between sw athletes and NFL players.
I say this all the time right in NFL players
of the guys that come in with book cool amounts
(38:06):
of talent and and out hurt quick injury. Um don't
know how to fight through adversity. I didn't understand the playboo,
couldn't understand teamwork, didn't understand the politics, would not take
the time to indulge in the professionalism your your pro
There's a guy a lot of times, Sean, you know,
you might not even know his full name, but he
played fifteen years on the team, you know, and cutting
(38:29):
checks and taking that money and investing right and you
know he's got stock and equity and so many different
things and you don't even know it's full name. That's
your pro and so it's I'm I'm glad man to
see as many athletes become pros um and so just
a testament that you're becoming a pro man um. I
do want to ask, because I did. There's a lot
(38:50):
of guys that don't understand the difference between m M
a UFC uh. They just see people in the ring fighting.
So if you could break down what's the difference between
some of the fighting elements that that that that our
viewers can see. You know, UM UFC had done such
a good job at branding. I look at them how
we look at Nike, right like when you go and
(39:12):
say that you're gonna go buy a pair of shoes,
you don't go buy pairs shoes. You're gonna buy a
pair of Nikes right when you got well, buy pag Abody,
gonna get Jordan's, I'm aboudy gonna get a Didas you know,
these companies have done such a great job at branding
that you don't even know what it is, right, And
so when people even I talked to them, don't know
the sport of animated like oh yeah, yeah, you got
the UFC, Like, no, no, my league is different. It's
(39:33):
not UFC. But what they know of is UFC because
they branded and they would sell so well and they've
done a great job of that. But m it MAY
has mixed martial large. That's the that's the form of fighting, right,
that's the form of the of the discipline. Um. And
there's there's multiple disciplines right, uh, muetai and boxing and
all all this stuff. But in it May UFC has
(39:56):
gotten So they did such a good job at branding
themselves that most people think the UFC is M M
A when there's two totally different things. It's kind of
like chaf stick. Somebody ask for chaf stick. They forget
that that's actually a brand that you're asking for. You know, Google,
I'm gonna go google something that's a brand. That's a brand.
(40:17):
So UFC has done one heck of a jail. So
so we're we're more of a of a farm league, right,
um um, you know, we we get we got the
next up and coming stars and guys getting ready for
the UFC um, which turns out to be a really
good thing for us because there's a ton of fighters
in this country, in this world. Really they need fights,
and so they can't get enough fights from the UFC.
(40:38):
They can't go there um just yet. So we give
these guys and women an opportunity to come and fight
for us, because that's what they want to do, full living.
They want to fight. And sometimes it's not enough for him.
Got you? So, Sean, I gotta put you on the
spot a little bit and ask you to put on
your don King hat. Al right, so right now today
and m m A who would be parallel to your
(41:00):
would be Mike Tyson versus a Vander holy Field fight
right now today? If you had what would be the
pacquiale versus Floyd Mayweather fight today, if you can put
one together, if you had your druthers the lights up,
who would you put? Um? Yeah? It just three weeks
ago I would have said it was us, been right,
(41:22):
Who's mine? And but you know that's the crazy thing
about the sport. He got knocked out with a headcuck um,
and so I don't know, it's so hard man. And
and this is this is why it's so hard to compare,
because May has caught up the boxing. Uh as far
as popularity that the fan base is more rabid. Uh
(41:42):
people watch more m May now than they do boxing.
Is because every week the best is fighting the best,
right and so um, you know John Jones and to
me personally is the the greatest him and May fighter
of all time. So um, I can't wait to see
him fight. Um. You of Francis in Ghana. You know,
(42:02):
I think that if they can never put that fight together,
it would be the biggest fight probably in the last
few years of M A in general. Um, I would
I would, you know, if if it had, if I
had my way, I would put that fight together in
a second. Um. But you got some other ones out there. Obviously,
people love to see counter fight. He has such a
Conama Gregor, because he has such a fan base, he's
(42:24):
going to bring the eyeballs. Um, you know I would.
I would love to see him, uh fight Michael Chandler. Um,
you know, I would love to see him fight Chandler.
So there's about five fights. Man, if I had you know,
my hand in it, I would I would try to
make happen. Um. But overall, man every week and even
made the best fighting the best, absolutely, and that's that's
what I appreciate it about it so much. And these
(42:45):
guys putting literally everything on the line. I'm a big
fan of Cold Man. I wish I love to see
him fight all day. Yeah, and you know he um
could be is a great fighter. Probably go down was
one of the greatest, but he'll never be the greatest
because he stopped to really um. And so you know,
with that being said, you know John Jones is the
greatest make fight out of all time. Got you love it,
(43:08):
love it? And so so tell us what's next, what's on?
What's next? What's Sean working on every day? What can
we look forward to come out of your bag next? Um?
I got I'm actually building a fighting entertainment venue. I'll
kind of be able to talk about that here in
the next thirty or six days. What everything is done? Um?
But you know, I just I turned what lights out
also into a real estate play man where we just
(43:30):
want to have fights, have our own venue. You have
to not have to worry about picking certain days and stuff.
We want to throw more fights, um, other than that
just growing a brand Lights Out, that's really big meetings
today in New York. Um, gonna launch the apparel again
here soon and and and go crazy with that. So
um it's fun. Man. This is I can't really necessarily
call it work, um because I'm doing what I want
(43:53):
to do. Uh, And I'm doing what I love to do,
and not too many people, especially the light that we
left before and doing out what we love when we
grew up wanting to do to get a chance to
redo it all that over again as something else. So man,
I'm just you know, I'm just fortunate and uh, and
keep grinding this thing out. Man, I just want lights
Out to be number one what I want one Lights
(44:15):
Out to be just as a whole, as a brand,
as a company. Um. Two when you start talking about
certain things, to start talking about lights up. So Sean,
you've had an opportunity to build this brand and and
doing so, you've uh creative relationships, Dana White being one
of them. Who is he to you? And um, how
much have you had a chance to learn from him?
(44:38):
You know? Dana? Um? You know if you look at
the sport M A and this we just talking about
brands and brand recognition and brand acknowledgement. Um, look look
what he's done and the Fatina's Look what they've done
to this sport in the last twenty years. Um. And
so for me, I know what it takes to build that.
(45:00):
And it's a lot of things going up behind the
scenes that people don't know, right, and a lot of nose,
a lot of doors slammed in your face, a lot
of Hey, this this sport is never gonna be big.
I'm sure they was told that a thousand times early on.
And so first and foremost, I just I just admired
the hell out of them for that reason, because I
know how hard it is to push through um that
(45:21):
many nose and people telling you that, hey, this thing
is not gonna make it. Um. So from a distance,
even before we really even got to know each other,
you got a chance to be around each other, I
just admired it from the distance. Um, that part of it, Alan,
And then the second part of it is is that
you know he's been in the fight game, and um,
you know somebody that if I had questions, mean, you know,
(45:42):
he always tell me he comes, you know, come by
the office. You know, let's let's talk let's meet up,
you know whatever. And so when you have somebody that
that's already done what you're trying to do, um, and
you're doing it a different capacity, right because our following,
my following is a lot from the NFL, which is
the biggest sport in the country. UM, and I think
(46:03):
that you know, m m A is kind of slowly
creeping on right behind that. And so just to pick
his brain if I had a question about something that's
valuable and I I don't take those things lightly, you know.
And I think that once people understand the sport and
understand how big and the brand they've built, to me,
it's never really competition there. Um. What I would like
to do is I would like him to, uh, in
(46:24):
the UFC in general, just acknowledge the talent that we
have and be able to pull some of the guys up.
Because my whole goal in this in this business is
to give fight has more opportunities to fight and build
a better life for themselves. And if that is going
to UFC to build their brand, to get more white balls,
to to make more money, whatever that might be, then
I'll do that. So there's a there's no competition. There
(46:44):
has always been, you know, very very mutual respect um,
and just more of an admiration for for what he's built.
I'm just coming at it at at a completely different
angle because of the platform that I've I've had with
the NFL and being able to build it with this
I love that man. Love. And before I let you go, uh,
since we both played football, Man, if you could put
if you could put two monsters NFL ball players in
(47:08):
the ring and let them go at it, who would
you enjoy seeing? It can be it could obviously gotta
be even at d N verse, d N linebacker, linebacker, quarterback, quarterback.
But if you could put together a good a good string,
who who would you like to see get in the ring?
I would like I would like to see Aaron Donald
and Richie Incarnito. I wouldn't. I would. I would love
(47:29):
to see you know like that. That's that to me,
that's a fight. That's it broad you know, you know
those guys gonna get after it. Um. Yeah, So I
mean I would love to see Aaron Donald and Richie Incarnito,
somebody you know, one of those big mastery guys, um
and Aaron Donald getting their scraped up. Well, I listen
(47:50):
if they decided to do it, We'll make sure it
happened under lights out. Man. I appreciate your time as always,
proud of you, happy for you. Still look up to you. Man,
Keep knocking lights out. Appreciate it, Broth. Hey, guys, thanks
for tuning into an episode of the Bag for Shan
Jennings and Linzie McCormick. Is fine. Production is done by
Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
(48:13):
My Heart Radio, please visit the I Heart Radio at
Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, Grea
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