Jon B

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Well, Jake Valachi, we are the authority R and ladies
and gentlemen, what's going on? I am Tank, I'm Ja Valentine,
and this is the R and B Money Podcast, the

(00:27):
authority on all things are and being thank God. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I don't. I don't do my bird man hands too often.
I don't. I don't. I don't run them together too often,
you know, because you know, I'm kind of legendary. But
when the legend, the legendary gets deeper than my legendary,
who get different? You just don't listen to what people

(00:52):
say they don't know about about you and may get
it out your mandus, y'allless see they don't know about
this here this man said that you make some noise
for Mr John Fildon. First of all, thank you, thank you,

(01:17):
thank you. You know what I mean, thank you so much.
I remember I remember back in the day listening to
um one of my favorite artists of all time, baby Face,
and I remember a record coming on and I'm like, man,
baby facing, add a little yeah, add a little thank

(01:40):
to his vocal and they're like, that's not baby Face. Yes, yeah,
that first nome we wanted, we wanted to you know,
kind of play with him, play with him. And when
we saw they saw you that video, that video, the
girls was like, yes he is. All black women said,

(02:02):
yes he is, Yes he is. Um, you've been killing
for a long time. Man. Like what we like to
do is we like to start at the very beginning,
like you know, from the first time you felt like
or somebody told you that you had something. You know

(02:23):
what I'm saying, because these gifts for us start earlier.
They started church and they started all these other places.
And so we want to we want to go down
memory lane, get get some real history on you, and
then we want to get into the nuances of the
winds and the losses. You know what I'm saying, as
you as you continue to take this journey the shore.
So at the beginning, when did when did you know? Well,

(02:46):
when did somebody tell you? I think it was the
eighth grade Talent show, talk about it, eighth grade Talent
Show and Elliot Junior High. You know, I'm performing, you know,
first of all, to be able to make it into
the talent show, to audition, and you know, to to
get chosen to be Okay, you're good. Let's we want
to see you made it. So now here's your chance. Boom,
You're on stage, You're performing in from your friends for

(03:07):
the first time. All your friends are kind of okay,
that's what's up. John kind of can sing all right,
you know. So it was the first time that I
ever really had that that sense of fearlessness on stage
that this is what I do and I'm happy to
share it with you guys. But it's really not about
what you think, because I'm up here because I love this,

(03:28):
you know what I mean. It's the first time I
ever getting the flex really, you know. But you have
been singing though, I have been singing and playing. So
I was programming all my songs on this you know,
this keyboard that basically was like a workstation, you know,
and I could just record everything. I had like a
little four track. So I was making demos fully like
you know, by the time it was middle school, high school,
well at the end of uh my eighth grade years

(03:53):
when I started really really produced. Yeah, I was basically
my my eighth grade year was when I started making
my first demos. So by ninth grade, I was fully
and so who gets you the studio? So my my
pops loaned me the money to do it. Yeah, he loaned.
He told me, you're gonna pay me every single okay,
okay at what age? Now, So this was probably around well,

(04:21):
I was basically like every see I come from a
family musician's okay, so for like gifts, you know, every
maybe three or four years, they would say, what do
you you know? What do you what are you into now?
As far as your music? What do you what are
you trying to do? And I would say, I don't
really want to do the drum set, you know, like
that it's too loud. No, you can't have a drum

(04:43):
set in the house. But he thought, you know, let
me go ahead and take one step. I hear, you know,
he sees me trying to sound the chords out on
the piano and trying to you know, because my mom's
a piano teacher, so as I was always like watching
her and just kind of I wanted to teach myself though.
So I was playing by and he saw that he said,
let me bind him his keyboard. So he got me
my first little cassio guy, you know what I mean.

(05:05):
And that was how I kind of cut my teeth
with playing. You know, you're in the house with a
piano teacher. But you don't want lessons. Didn't want lessons.
I wanted to kid, you know, I wanted to hear
what I wanted to play, because it wasn't I wasn't
being taught, Like if I was going to study with somebody,
they weren't teaching me how to play the way I
wanted to. So I was learning by listening to like,

(05:27):
you know, Jimmy jam Terry Lewis and baby Face and
know what I mean, and the songs that they were
right when new addition, Bobby Brown and all this. I
was sort of playing these chords trying to figure out
how to play them at least. So yeah, but um,
the you know, the eighth grade, you know, making all
those demos and playing it from my friends and getting
their approval. I think that was really what made me
kind of go all out. You know, by the ninth grade,

(05:49):
I really didn't want to do it on my own.
So I started forming these groups, these R and B groups.
I was like, I swear we were coming me bad.
Before coming, we had a black guy, Filipino guy, the
United Nations, and it was it was it was, it was.
It was a less situation where harmony. You know, it

(06:10):
was um my first time really even having like a
group of guys I went to church with, you know,
you know found you know what the church vibes wasn't
the gospel choir and getting into gospel choir and um
in high school joining the gospel choir. I think that's
really what pushed me vocally forward. Was they were like,

(06:30):
all right, you know, John, come out, you know, come
out that throat, get get into that chest. You know
what I mean. You showed me a lot about that.
When you know that I told you that. You know,
it's it's so much influence in this game. You know
that has taught me so much. I'm a I'm a
fan of this music. I'm a study you know, I
study this music um with with a passion and uh

(06:54):
and a love for it. You know. It's a true
love for for what I do and for what other
others do. It's it's no really getting it wrong. It's
just like certain stuff you love a little bit more
than others, you know. And I want to go back
and touch on stuff you said when you said, you know,
as we as Jay jumped into not having the lessons
and because they weren't teaching you, you know, the music

(07:20):
in a way that made you feel like you were
learning the things you were here, right, And so you know,
I was. I was in the same vote where you know,
they would try to send me to this music teacher
who was trying to have my hands resting on middle
C and I'm like, I'm like, but you don't hear
what Chucky Booker is doing. You uh, you know, you

(07:45):
don't hear what the Mississippi mass quire I just did
with like that's that's not in here, right. And and
so with with teaching music at that point, still being
so structured and you having to come from a classical foundation,
you know what I'm saying, Like, I love what's happening today,
like we have. I'm actually teaching my son and my daughter.

(08:07):
They learned at piano, but they're learning things that they
want to learn, right, And so they're learning theory from
you know, the Harry Potter song or you know, from
the Spider Man something or in the there. That's how
they're learning their theory, you know what I'm saying. And
so but when we were growing up, nobody was teaching

(08:30):
theory like that. The songs that you heard nobody was saying,
well let me show you what that looks like on here,
because that would have been a that approach right there
would have sent us into a completely different space, you
know what I'm saying, and understanding how to really like
we can play you know what I'm saying. We have
our ear and we can feel in all of those things,
but if we could score it, oh yeah, right, like

(08:54):
you know, Tim Carmon, I've heard of that. Tim Carmen
is uh to Karman is nothing short of amazing. He
was Eric Clapton's empty for the longest. Probably steal this,
but Tim Carmen can feel it, he can read it,
and he can write it. Yeah, it's amazing man, He's
I mean, and it's very it's rare that guys can

(09:16):
do both. Yeah, right now. I I kind of straight
away from being taught stuff because I kind of I was.
I had a really short attention span for for um
for learning things that it was much more of a
hands on type of person. And let me you know,
I started my first core was a fifth um and
so I'll probably like middle C or something like that,

(09:38):
you know, and the G and just kind of combined
those and kind of go all up and down. You know,
I was five or six years old when I was
doing this, and so combinations of different you know, fifth
and so and you know, and these were my first
ways of being I was five years old man. So
they watched me and he said, we can't show you

(09:59):
how to do that. That's something that we can't show
you how to do. Improvisation is not something that you
can really teach somebody. It's like it's it's just it's
like having the charisma as an actor as well, you know,
like you can't be shown that. I mean, you can
see somebody act and do a really great job and
say yeah, like that, but in terms of being shown okay,

(10:20):
this is how you show charisma. It's like when you
kind of comes from inside, see will, it just looks
Brad Pitt. It just I'm just saying, you know, it's
a trip. Because no one showed me how to how
to come from inside like that. It was more I
feel like, if that was a secret, how did they

(10:42):
do that? I wanted to reverse the engineer how they
did it. So my my whole thing was having templates
for songs that were my favorite songs and trying to
approach the music the same way, like how did that? Okay,
let me find that chord. Now that I got that chord,
where does that sound come from? I out of sound
is similar. Now where's that bass sound? What's the snare?

(11:03):
That's the snare sound? Let me let me sample that snare.
You know, it's just you just kind of like you
learn to. I learned to try to really personify the
people that I admired so much. And that's kind of
the reason why we, you know, we went so hard
while I went so hard with them showing the influence
the baby face had for me on it, because don't

(11:25):
go don't go there yet. I mean that's what you
you know, you brought that up originally with me sounding
just liking on that that that's someone to love record.
So that's that's really the main thing, is to be
able to come so far having so much admiration for
the art, but not only the art, the people who
are the best at doing it at at the time creating.

(11:47):
You're paying the most attention to them. It's like that's
your dream list of people that you want to get
to and then you you make that move and it's
not even that you think that it's not gonna happen.
It's just some more like I gotta make that happen.
That's somebody I have to So was that before you
get to that? Did you win the contest? Yeah? I know,

(12:11):
it's so crazy. This was so crazy about when you
said Chucky Booker. Guess who was the Talent show judges
Pasadena's own troop the group Truth by Chucky Booker not Yea. Yeah, man,
So you know they were there. They were I remember
they all had white on and they're all sitting there

(12:33):
and like I'm I'm performing in front of them, just
like okay, I'm feeling good, right, and it's like, all right.
The winner of Best Vocal Performance is John that's so
your first contest middle school? Yeah, judged by the legendary
the legendary Trip Polished and we're from the same town. Yeah,

(12:55):
you know what I'm saying. It was really special to
have that in, you know, in my archive of reason,
you know, as far as just something I can pull
back every time I see Steve Russell. You know, I'm
just like, man, come on, you were the first one
to really believe in me. Man, you know what I mean.
So even before baby Face I appreciate you, you know
what I mean. So so now you have now you're

(13:17):
making demos, Now you've got groups, championships, you got a championship.
Like you're shaking the moving in terms of your development. Now,
when do you get that first look, for that first
call from you know this this place that's getting ready

(13:37):
to become a major. How do you get to baby? Like?
What are these steps? I was, I was my senior year.
Well you know, I hadn't really I was recording and
producing and building up my um my you know, my
my archives are all my music um and I was
also producing local talent around the area. So I had

(13:58):
kind of built my name up in the industry in
terms of being somebody who was you know, up and
coming and you know you should got here. This guy's
got tracks, you know what I mean, writes and produces
on stuff and these things. And so you know, I was,
I was dropping my my you know, CD and cassette
at the time off at Motown, m c A at

(14:19):
Warrener Brothers, and I had some interests ruined. So you know,
you kind of get that buzz and our get to
talking and different people start getting talking, so you kind
of you hear from people. Um, I had a guy
who was helping me kind of walking my music around.
And I remember I was still in high school. I
was still in my senior year of high school, and
I was checking myself out of class because I was eighteen.

(14:40):
So I was like, all right, I gotta go. You know,
I'm officially, you know, an adult now. So so I
sign myself out of class and I go straight down
to Hollywood and I'm like, I walked into this little
hole in the wall office because they told me, you know,
they wanted to hear my music. And it was baby Face,
but it wasn't the Face. It is actually his his

(15:01):
new label that he was gonna try to do with
his wife, called Evan's Record Group. So yeah, so they
they heard it and it was it was a rap.
I mean it was like as soon as he heard
the music, he was like, is that you? And I
was like, yeah, that's that's my voice, you know, that's
that's I did all the music. I will, you know,
you know, program the drums, played, the chords, did the

(15:22):
baseline arrange, the backgrounds, The whole thing is on me.
And he was just like he's like, you're trying to
be an artist. And I was like, no, no, no, no,
you didn't go in there will be an artist, I said,
I said, not necessarily. I was like, I'm not trying
to be famous. I was like, I just want to
be a part of what you do. Can I be on?
You just want to go on the staff? Could not

(15:45):
be your Darryl Simmons, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw these names,
you know what I mean on the credits. I was like,
I just want to be one of the team. You know, listen, kids,
they used to be this thing. It's called credits. I know.
You guys just download things now you don't know who
the broke, but we used to actually buy the c

(16:05):
ds and open them up. You look at the pictures
with a who who whoever. They were thinking like, oh,
that's probably his girlfriend. The way he said that he
wrote the songs, yea, And that's for you to go
in there and mention other amazing writers to him, like

(16:26):
that doesn't even really happen that. I was so excited
to meet like people that I had had so much
admiration for. I met Dwayne Riggins from Tony Tony, Tony
and Low Town. He was working as an n R
at the time, and I dropped my CD and stuff.
He was really into it. I met Benny Medina, you know,
interess in the industry, um, and he was really trying

(16:47):
to sign me. I mean he was meaning all the legends.
So it was crazy, it was. It ended up being
a bitty war between Bennie and and Sony Epic and
baby Face. You know it's his his label over Epic.
But I knew, you know, my heart was with working
with the people that I wanted I had always wanted

(17:09):
to get with, you know, as far as not only
just baby Face, but everyone that he has worked with,
like Tony Braxton. What I mean, the list goes on.
So yeah, my one of my first things he said,
put a list together, everybody that you want to produce,
and I want to see all this suside like after
seven New Edition coming back, all these people, Tony Braxton.

(17:29):
He literally put me in the studio within you know,
a year or two, um, with every single one of
those groups, and I was able to produce records for
all those people. Yeah, man, TLC, I mean that's incredible. Yeah,
it was really really uh, I mean the first year
of my of my career. N I had tour of

(17:51):
the entire world. I went on a world tour. I
wanted to all the way Southeast Asian went down to
you know, you're up all of you know. I didn't
go with Face. I went as a sony Epic Artists,
and they wanted me to be internationally before the record

(18:11):
after this, right after Um some of those love had
come out and Pretty Girls the single yeah right. What's
the first record that you in Face did together? Was
that somewe That was the first one. Actually, the first
song I believe was um, pretty Girl. We recorded that first,

(18:37):
but but it was it was just recorded first UM,
and I couldn't believe when you know, I called him,
It's like I got something, I got mine for you,
check it out, And so he played over the phone
and then he just started to sing the melody for me,
and he the lyrics he had the first verse, and
I was just like, oh my god, that's my song,

(18:59):
Like it's the keyboard that I'm used to hearing, you know,
on all of his and so I'm just so hype.
I'm like, are you kidding me? This is for me?
You know. I was a big fan of Tevin Campbell too,
you know, so like production. Yeah, you know, so his
production was was all baby Face at that time that
can we talk big record, I'm ready. All that was

(19:20):
was Kenny. So this kind of had that same, that
same swag to it, you know. Um For me, it
was a really romantic, sexy record, but it was minimal.
There wasn't a lot to the track. It was. I
was really surprised on how simple the track was, you know,
almost reminded me of like Prince. The way the drums had.
The drums was like like some Prince type ship. But

(19:45):
if anybody knows Face or Kenny, my baby Face, you know,
all of those, all those things. He's very heavily influenced
by Prince. He loves Prince. Oh yeah, red Light specially.
He loves he like he loved Prince record Red Light Special.
That's what I was waiting when I was you know,
I watched Kenny work with Michael Jackson, so I've seen

(20:06):
that happen, but I really and I was incredible and
we're not We're not just gonna be but he would
not just gonna jump over that. I never saw Princeton
and baby Face work together. Okay, okay, wait, wait, you
were there during the Michael Jackson Baby Face sessions. Um. Actually,
I was living with Kenny at at his house. He

(20:28):
had me move into his house when I first signed
to him. He's, yeah, I'm gonna show you the power
of Sony epic. And you know, we fly on the
lead Jett out to New York and meet Tommy Matola. Okay,
and you know, I'm I'm out there. I'm just like
why He's like, when we get when we get back home,
you're gonna move in. And and so I was able

(20:49):
to work with him on Madonna. I was working with
him on Michael Jackson. I mean, it was crazy. And
then he's like, and then you're gonna work with my brothers.
After seven, He's like, there's like five or six I
want to use the yours for them. I was like
five or six songs. I was like, are you kidding me? Yeah,
we all became like brothers. And Kevon and yeah, my god,

(21:10):
shout out to Cavon. Kevin did me too, greatest favor
of all time. When I first moved to l A,
I was working with Face as well early on and
through Damon Thomas and you know what I mean, and
met Kevan and Kevin was one of my mother's favorite singers. Yeah, yeah,

(21:33):
he could see Kevan sang Happy Birthday for my mother. Yeah.
I will never ever ever forget that that range and
you don't miss up there, don't miss you stopped it
with the range. Now huh oh man, you can go
you can go there. I can cheat, I can stretch.

(22:00):
You're like trying to touch the rim, Like, yeah, I
know how to cheat my rage. So all of this
is in your first year, the couple of years. It's crazy.
It was so crazy to experience so much Grammy nomination,

(22:21):
off someone to love and everything. It was I'm a
baby and I don't I don't know that this isn't
it's not normal, but it's like I didn't know how
to process it all because it was all happening so fast.

(22:49):
So the main thing that I really knew that I
wasn't gonna do was become Hollywood and fake and be,
you know, worried about fame and letting that control what
I wanted my goal to be because I was still
the musicians, still into the craft of songwriting and producing.
So even though they wanted me to be an artist,
now okay, now we got we got this. Look I
want you to put this on. We want you to

(23:10):
talk like you know, we want you to not talk
like this, but we want you to speak with these people.
We want you to have this type of They put
me with an interview coach and all this, and you know, yeah,
you have a whole thing, and yeah, yeah, you learned
it all very fast and quickly, you know, and it's
just a lot to do at eighteen. You know, I
was only eighteen, And so did you even finish your

(23:33):
year at school or did you were you? I was,
so did you get on the road? So actually I
was probably nineteen to come to think of it, because
you're right, I was, because this happened, um the summer
of after I graduated high school. This is when it happened. Summer.
It was crazy because my my pops told me. He
was like, you know, you know, um, what college is

(23:54):
you been thinking about? I was like, oh, no, I'm
getting a record deal, you know, I'm not going to college.
And he's like, I hope so, because if if you're
living here, you're going to college if you don't get
a record deal. And I was like, oh no, don't worry.
So I came home after meeting Kenny and Tracy, and
I was like, I got a record deal, Dad, I'm
not going to college. And that was wasn't an easier

(24:15):
conversation because you came from a family of musicians, you mean,
because that's a tough conversation for some Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
because I mean honestly that it's sort of like the
NBA for for musicians. You know what I mean. You
just got drafted in the NBA basically, you know what
I mean, signed to Sony Epic through Baby Facing. Yeah,
it was. It was a real deal, and I mean

(24:36):
it was an interesting thing because I did it on
my own, which felt really really good. It felt very
which is really rare. Yeah, it was. I mean, it
wasn't a high power manager. I mean, you're talking about
the homie who just was with me for moral support,
walking in there with me, you know what I mean.
We were working together, but it wasn't like a you know,
he was still cutting his teeth in the business. So
I was like, you know, we're both trying to get

(24:57):
on you mean, so yeah, it's a beautiful, beautiful time
and I gotta get to this. I want to get
to this nuance and there's someone to love record, such
an important record because you know, listening to this record

(25:20):
as a baby Face fanatic, yeah, you know, as this
song is happening, I'm like, man, it sounds like sound
like baby Face guessing even I just took all the
base out, my boys, my baby Face got some new Hi.
What's you know? What he would do with me? He

(25:41):
would say whenever I tried to thick him up, because
I have a bunch of different tonalities I do with
my voice, and when I would try to go thicker
with the scene, he said, no, no, no no, no, just
make it like make it real sweet, like just make
it sweeter, you know what I mean. I'd be like, okay,
you know, like easy, and I'm just like okay, So

(26:01):
he left you to interpret what that man, what that
did for me was baking. Okay, I'm gonna do show
him how I do him because it's like I was
impressing the girls and that school. So so you know,
here's my chance now to show that, you know, I've

(26:21):
retained some of that sauce that you you know, you
showed me how to make, you know what I mean,
and so like, yeah, that's just show him a little
bit of what what he already you know is about
and I think that all of the great, the great
artists that have worked with baby Face, they all did
that baby you know, Johnny Gil was able to do

(26:42):
that um. And so to me, I picked up on
the theme behind so that his his swag was baby
Face has a certain box. Since it's it's abo, it's
a certain box to baby Face. Yeah, well I what
I got. What I got very similar thing that Print
had um In terms of his he um, he almost

(27:05):
spoke his his words before he sang them. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
what you know what it was like the beginning of
yeah you you know what I mean? Sn yeah, and
and it brings you, it brings you in. So what
he did with me was when we did pretty Girl,

(27:27):
he was like your lips, you know what I mean, Like,
let's make that first line the line that makes people
want to listen to the song. And yeah, he taught
me so much. Man. It was like little things that
I I didn't know that would be so affective that
ended up being like defining factors and how I produced
and from the way I stacked my vocals and things

(27:47):
like that too, you know, harmony and melodies and yeah,
it's just it's weird, like I feel like we're related
in some sense because I'm I've we both got you know, sprinkled.
That's that that similar thing. Yeah, yeah, it's called not
many of you guys out there. Yeah you know what
I can. You know, I'm gonna let y'all toasted a man. Yeah,

(28:10):
you know you you wait till we get to what
you have done for me man influence wise, my gosh.
So the first album, first album, first album, Bro, what
a kicking in the door. And what's crazy is that,

(28:38):
you know, black people are really protective of R and
B music, or of soul music culture, of the culture
culture for sure. And it felt like to me, at
least from my standpoint, you were welcomed with open arms

(29:03):
because from work at one I was like, he got it.
Oh man, thank you, And that's just not me, Like
that's that's the culture. It wasn't interesting time, wasn't it,
Because there wasn't a lot of of my template as
an artist, you know what I mean, There wasn't a
lot of that going at the time. I mean, we

(29:23):
had George Michaels, and we had pop popular versions of
soulful esque kind of guys. I think that the one
person that makes me think so R and B who
wasn't black was Team Marie. Of course, you know she was.
She's staple in R and B music, and growing up
hearing her really kind of sealed the deal for me

(29:44):
in terms of like really realizing that music is music
and if we love it, we love it. It It doesn't matter.
You know, you can love it and be whoever you are.
And but it's about like how much do you love it?
You know, I can't fully get the work my knowledge
about To my knowledge, you are the only R and

(30:04):
B artist with a Tupac feature. Yeah, I don't know,
Like he may have actually done some other stuff that
may have never come out. Maybe something that's gonna say something.
I was on death row shout out to Danny Boy.
Amazing artist, amazing singer. You had a Tupac feature, bro,
and so you got you got. It's my badge of honor.

(30:27):
Really is man, it's something to feature. It's it's it's
it's something that is so so you know, amazing in
my heart, but it's at the same time it was
it was a very sad thing to experience to know
him as a person, you know, and to shake his
hand and to be in the studio and have the
comaraderie that we did and smoke together and drink together,
and and and talk about our relationships in our life,

(30:50):
you know, and put that in the record because how
old are you at this point? And I'm you know,
probably one at that point, two maybe, so, Yeah, he
was really putting the once again. Someone was sprinkling that
that magic on me and I was just like, wow,
I can't believe this. This is amazing, you know, because uh,
I was already a fan and I met him. How

(31:12):
do you want a video? Shoot? He did, invited me
down to that. How do you want how you want
a video? How do you want it? How does it
fit Joe to see? Yeah? What is Johnny? J Casey
and Joe? Joe? I remember it was swaying Tech from

(31:33):
you know, yeah for the you don't for the bed. Yeah,
Tech was on the bus and the two parks on
there and he wild and he had the Hunters. There's
this Python stakes. It's all kinds of work for y'all
who don't do this? Boy, don't you don't know? Don't
you act like that, I don't know, shout out to

(31:57):
have the hunter? Yeah, matter when I was eighteen and beyond.
You know it was. It was very interesting here in
l A. And you know, you could talk for a
little bit because I've never gotten that car service she
tried to send me. But you know what it was.

(32:17):
But it's a crazy It's a crazy day, man, it's
a crazy day. I met him. I met him. We
played him some bets freestyle right there in front of me,
and I knew we was going to do something. I
was like, we just if I get in studio with him, man.
So two weeks later he hit me up and it
was at Canam Studios. He always worked at this one studio. Yeah,
and we actually had a room there years after only

(32:43):
Studimarion album there. Yeah, only studio I've ever seen who
They had metal detectives before you got in and a
security guard at the thing need the guns at the
front and the safe. I was just like, okay, like
it's still blass and there. Yeah, I mean place I've
ever seen. Did you Did you produce that one? No?

(33:03):
That was Johnny J god rest his soul. Man, he's
amazing producer, producer. She doesn't really get his props like
he should, you know what I mean. So That's why
I make sure to always mention Johnny j Man, you
know he's and also Ronnie King is part of that too.
There's a lot of great players on that that song.
Johnny Taylor. To me, it reminded me of Marvin Gay record.

(33:25):
When I heard the track, it reminded me of like
the Midnight Love era when he was doing sexual healing,
and it was like it had that you know, you
know that that the rim coming back at you like
get like reminded me of shot there or something that's

(33:47):
you know. It was. It just it was so smooth
to me. It was interesting because I was so you know,
um amped to work with him. I wanted him to
to you know, I wanted to blast off on one
of my songs, on one of my tracks. So I
played him some songs and you know, it was like,
all right, cool, then let me see what you have,
you know, and then he played me that track and
it was, let damn what I was talking about. I mean,

(34:09):
I had all the gear ready to produce and NPC
and then and all the you know raps and all that.
Damn all this equipment. The track is ready, let's go.
So we put that down on the reel from the Dad,
just the two tracks, and I started just bobbing behind
the board and all that, and I'm just like, like

(34:32):
I started immediately going with that melody. He was the
one to fill in the words it's all right baby,
because because it's there in your eyes, like he was like,
he went full RB. He went full on it. And
then when I forgot how the melody went because I
was kind of going doing other things, how'd I go? How? Then?
How the help go again? I was like, I don't know, man,

(34:54):
how did it go again? He's like, girl, list all right?
I was like, okay, that's going to booth lay the hook?
Forget how the hook? This? How goes? Man? Now? That
ain't right? Girl? And something right? I'm like, So he
produced the box and then when I started doing too
much now, I'm hey, hey, hey, hey, I need you
to feel this. John Man like go back to the

(35:14):
top and I just want you to feel it. And
then some podople walk in the room and disturb the
energy or something like that. He would be like, yo, man,
sit down, man, you know that's it that that that
isn't there and that's y'all being there. And like I
just was like are you kidding me? Like he showed
me like so much love y'all, Like it was man

(35:39):
on time one time for two time, Yes, yes, yes,
producing vocals, remembering the hook, singing the hook and believe
it though, he was because he was that kind of passionate.
It was passionate he was. He's like, you want to
hear after we got our song done, he was like,

(36:00):
you want to hear something else I'm working on. I
was like, oh, let's let me check it out. He
takes me right over. He's got the other room book
right next door, and he's in there and he already
laid one verse of California to live and die in
l A. And then he's gonna just take his lyrics
and he goes in there and he p's the second
verse on on me and I'm like, right in front

(36:22):
of me, he just does it, And I was like,
did that just happened that you just did that right now?
And he's like yeah, man. I was like. Then he
goes he does another track and does it exactly the
same tour. It was like, you know how when you
double your vocals and you you just stick it, it's
just exactly. It sounds like one vocal. That's how he
doubles his vocals, bro the pitch. Everything that was perfect.

(36:45):
So yeah, he there's nobody like Tupac. I still believe
if he was alive today, the industry would be different
like it would there would be a lit There was
a lot of soul that he brought, a lot of
um spirituality that he brought. It didn't have to have
a religion connected to it for it to be spiritual.
It was it was about a human thing. And he's

(37:07):
gonna test you to the core who you are as
a human by the things he says and the things
that he stands for. So if you don't like it,
that's okay. But this is where he stands and this
is where he's at. So meet him over where he's at,
and you're gonna be transformed. Because ever since I met Tupac,
I was transformed. I was. I think he puts he
put some stripes on on the side of me, you

(37:27):
know what I mean, And he fully decorated like soldier
ready to go into the world and represent the culture
and do everything. I'm I've been doing that for twenty
seven years, you know what I'm saying. Um, So I'm
just I'm so blessed man to have had that experience. Real,
I don't ever take it for granted that yeah, that's crazy,
but we got the we got the Devil, Yeah yeah

(37:50):
we did. Man. Let me tell you this guy, how
influential you are. Let me give you your flowers more
than because I'm telling you. When I first smit you,
I just thought, what an incredibly humble guy who's a
one stop shop, you know. And I relate to that,
you know what I mean. I relate to someone who
has a personal feeling that they can express themselves, whether

(38:14):
it be a beat maker or a lyricist or but
you do it all, you know. So it was really
it was really humbling for me to have you like
what I was bringing to the tables, dig the track
and dig the everything. You were like, yo, let me
get on that. And I was like, bro, like this
is crazy. So we did. The song Stronger, Stronger every

(38:36):
Day back in two thousand four ended up being the
title track of my album. Um. Basically that that that
that was like represented the strength that I was trying
to show at that time as an artist to be
resilient through whatever the industry was gonna tell me. What
is it? Whatever, don't kill you, make you stronger, right,
you know, so to have you assist me on that

(38:59):
like that Lately the first single from the album Lately.
Everybody heard that and it was so hip hop and
it was so that that was done by Brains the
building all the time building. He used to see you
all the time up there with the damon and then
you know what I'm saying. So I was like, all right, Tank,

(39:20):
you know, all right, I'm gonna see you. And then
Jeromee you you you actually sold your truck to my
manager at the time. Um, you actually you let him
take over the least or something like that. You remember
that when you said it was crazy, It wasn't you.
It was a dope ass Burgundy that it was a

(39:43):
street truck for sure. Yeah it was. It was like
you have to call somebody, they come pick up. He
had the Burgundy. John. I was like, I got that
custom pain. Yeah, that's nobody had that. It was a
street truck. I said, my cousin, he's gonna bring the

(40:05):
car to you and then you just get him the payments.
I was like, okay, I don't ask no questions. Yeah,
this guy is cool, you know, what I mean, so,
because you know, that was my family and everything. He
was helping him out. So that was dopen and I
hadn't even met you yet. And then we did. We
did uh Lately, and I heard, you know, the vocal

(40:26):
you stacked the vocals and you I mean, you're that's
his voice voice on the whole hook of Lately. I
didn't even want to stack over him because they didn't
want to. I didn't want. I wanted people to know,
like this is the background, like he's featuring on here
with me basically, you know, and it was it just
worked so well. And then when baby Face hurt it,

(40:47):
He's like, I gotta get on there. I gotta help
right the bridge. Let me get the bridge, and so
he put his backgrounds on the bridge. So I got
baby Face, come on, man, if you and loving you
can't I been you gotta understand what that means, Like
that is that's a that's a heavyweight moment for me. Um. Yeah,

(41:07):
So you're on two songs on that. Where did you
where was it was? Was it an album release you
had in Hollywood? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, remember that that
was a good time. I mean, you were just you know,
it was it was it was easy, you know what
I'm saying. It's like when you tap in with like

(41:28):
minded people, it's just it's just easy. He was like,
he's like my cousin, you know what I'm saying. Like
like we had like we had been doing it spiritually.
We had probably already been connected, you know what I'm
saying in an alternate universe, just already prepping us for
the moment, you know, in this phase. Like it's the
same way with me and Jay, Like it was just easy.

(41:49):
Like but the vo first song we wrote together was
a hit your your voice. There's no one like you, man.
And I've heard people try to sign don't like you,
you know what I'm saying, And right away I'm going down.
He's trying to sound like Tank, you know. And that's
something when you have your own thing that you've put
your stamp on, you know, singing. Baby Face has got

(42:14):
his own thing. So when I started to sound like him,
you knew I was trying to sound like baby Face, right,
I had to form my own style and and and
really you have a yeah, time you got to that
second album. By the time you got to that second album,
That's why I asked about the first one. Yeah, the
second album, I really found my legs. But it's interesting
because this is how it ties into tank. Is that

(42:35):
moving on past the second album, in the third album,
still singing in that kind of thinner texture quality. I
hadn't really filled my voice out or played with the
whole idea of taking it deeper into my um, sticking
out the tone a little bit instead of being so
then and breathy when h h and then put vibrato

(43:02):
behind it. This is a whole another voice, and I
found that voice in my live show by singing out.
But when I heard him singing, I said, this guy
he's because when I heard Johnny gil for the first time,
it was a thick tone, right, and he's one of
my favorite all time singers of all time. But when
I heard your voice, I was like, here's a thicker tone.

(43:25):
But this guy could really sing. This guy can really
like I mean, he could sing Mary had a little
and it'll be like he just you know, his tonality
is just so I know that you are the catalyst
for artists like you are the number one influence for
Sam Smith. I mean number one influence for I mean

(43:49):
for me. I You're up there in my top five
all time favorite singers. Bro Like, honestly, um, when I
when I heard you, I started to try to play
with that little it, you know, in terms of like
let me because when we did um, we did lately, Um.
I don't think I approached that with the same tonality

(44:09):
that I did the other records. I was like a
pitty young thing, sexy younger. I mean, you know, it's
a little bit more in there. And then started playing
playing with it even more. And then you know, you
hear that album and you're like, okay, John, John's growing
up a little bit. You know. Yeah, But I think

(44:29):
that that's really cool when you and you can find
yourself and others or something that you relate to and
others and then that ends up being a strong point
for you. That's that's always been the gift of music. Really.
It's like, you know, knowing that we have other things
to do, other things to learn. There's more to it
than just where we're at right now. Like somebody, you know,
I'm still learning today, like the young kids are teaching

(44:51):
me too. Sure the tracks, how we can innovate still

(45:12):
single page is a lot of the you know, the
cultures that have always sort of done this kind of
these kind of rhythms are now like the African and
the Latin and all that is aging now it's like
it's all. It's all like if if you had to
have a proudest moment in R and B, if you

(45:34):
have to just pick one, like let's I'm sure you
have many, but if you just had to pick one
just for just for the sake of the show, I
will say, you know, the moment that I was performing
very recently, I think it was two thousand eighteen m
at the Soul Train Awards when they allowed me to
play someone to Love and they don't know, back to
back and then I brought out Donald Jones and he

(45:57):
did his thing, killed it and um but that Foremans
particularly was I just saw something in myself that had
never really seen a maturity, a seasoned kind of veteran
that had really kind of been waiting for that moment.
And here's the moment. And there's so many artists I
know that have so many of those moments. They can
look back, look at this award show, look at this award,

(46:19):
so look at it. I don't have that, you know
what I'm saying. My award shows have been very you know, minimal,
So it's like when I got my my shot like that.
The other one was in two thousand thirteen. I did
it with Bobby Caldwell. That was an you know, to
be on the stage with him someone it shares the
same walk, but very earlier, you know, a lot a
lot earlier. And I think that was even it was

(46:41):
very telling. Like getting back to what I said about
white artists doing R and B music, it wasn't really
accepted yet. So do you feel like do you do
you feel like to a certain degree your music was
to R and B to be fully like, you know,

(47:01):
maybe moved into a pop space cross stole like which
is the reason why I was no longer on Epic Records,
because they tried to put me with David Foster and
Diane Warren and do the song there was a bilingual song.
Maybe we could get an international kind of more of
an appeal type of things. A song called to a
more you know what I mean. It was beautiful record,

(47:22):
but it's not my wasn't one of my choices for
the album. That was I was we here doing records
with nas and you know, producing records with with with
with with you know, O dB and just blaze and stuff.
So I was in a totally different energy, you know,
than than than than that. So they tried to cross
when they when they tried, I said, okay, I'll go

(47:44):
to the studio with David Foster and Diane Warren. But
you know, it's the kind of hangar it's like, oh gosh,
you're so black, you know, it's just like it's like
that I thought you were like a black guy. First.

(48:04):
I was like, you work with earth Wind and fire
work with did not expect you to be on that
Like honestly, that was a disappointment when I when I
when I met Dan Dyane Warren and she said that
to me, I was like, that's not that's not soulful
like for to say that to someone, it's just not.
So next time Dyane Warren, I see you, you're probably

(48:27):
gonna be like, yo, I don't like that. You told
people about that about it, that was that was what
you said on Twitter. I'm on the wall. It's like
a quote of she's a soulful but you know you
said that, you know, you know you said and I
kind of I was just kind of like, okay, but

(48:47):
you just want to stay stay true. You wanted to
stay true with just the music you love. That's it.
And I don't want people to like really bring that
up anymore. Like the fact that I'm like like I
I that's something that actually is a very annoying thing.
Was something makes that seem like that has anything to
do with anything. It's like, let that go, because now
it's be twenty seven years of doing this, Like, let's

(49:09):
make music. I have nothing to prove anymore. I already
proved it, so there's nothing to do anymore excepted show
people I still got it and I still make music.
My music now if you give it a chance, it's
just as good as it was back then. If anything,
I think I'm doing it better just because I've learned
so much and there's so much more to me as
a as a as a as a man. Knowing what

(49:32):
I want to say and how I want to say it.
Now I can kind of like really lean into the
curves and really, you know, I'm I'm I'm you know,
controlling the narrative, you know, and I always have been.
But I think that for a lot a lot of times,
it was a lot of pressure just stay within this
perimeter of what we felt was what they felt was

(49:52):
you know, appropriate for someone of my my racial background,
and ultimately, did you lose your deal off of that?
I went. I went against the grain working with Tupap.
I went against the grain working with Guru, and I
work with the people that I had admiration for. I
was like, I knew who to go to. Whether it
was a successful move, They're like, that's not commercial rap.

(50:15):
That's like, why don't you get with l L or
something like that'd be cool too if L else down,
I do it, But right now gurgles down. And I'm
a big Gang Star fan, So you know, I know
it doesn't mean anything for you for me to work
with Just Blaze, But Just Blaze is a hot producer
right now making all the you know, the Rocket Feller
stuff and and everything else. So why not work with Juice?

(50:35):
You know what I'm saying. The Joe Budden record, with
the jump Off record, I was like all all over that.
So I wanted to be in the studio with those guys.
And so if I had a budget, I was gonna
spend the money the way I wanted to. I wasn't
working with the people that they they didn't see the
vision of me working with tripal requests. You know, I'm cool, relaxed.

(50:55):
I had to show them this is this is how
we're gonna move at least head mohammed about powers like
these guys they this is real hip hop. They if
people see that this is authentic, they're not gonna question it.
It's not gonna be about my race. I'm not gonna
be about all that. It's gonna be about the music.
So let's make good music man. You know. But I

(51:16):
kind of had to show him because when I first
turned in the you know, they are you still down
with Tupac and all that? How are you gonna? Oh
my god? They fought They don't know. Huh. You see,
they're they're getting mad at me now and they try
to like tweet and be like on something like John,
that's not true. We loved. They don't know we loved.

(51:37):
Are you still down there? Became you loved it with
no shade throne. Honestly, this is just the way it happened.
When we turned that record in. It wasn't nobody calling
me talking about this is a hit. When he died
two weeks later, God rest his soul. He passed two
weeks later after the record comes out there two weeks later. Bro,

(52:00):
the last thing my man said to me when I
was leaving was he's like, all right, brother, don't waste
your time. Don't don't waste your talent. Now, if you're
not doing three songs a day, you ain't really doing it.
So because I watched him literally get down like that
and just like, okay, man, all right, bro, love you man.
And it was like three in the morning, I'm driving
from Tarzana back to Pasadena after drinking and smoking by myself.

(52:24):
I'm sitting there crying with the window down, like because
I'm so happy, you know, and so like to to
get that news when I was in the studio two
weeks later that he had got shot again. I was like, well,
he's gonna make it because he's Tupac, you know what
I mean. And so he wasn't here and he was
still on life support, and uh yeah, we just we

(52:46):
just we had just such a all the air of
wind just taking all out of everything that was doing,
sucked out of me, you know what I mean. So
it was like now, what so now the labels like, oh,
let's put the Tupac song out and I'm like no,
and so you know what I mean, and then all
of a sudden, no, we believe in this party. We
think this is gonna be a record. So it was

(53:08):
almost like a cool yet year of having that like
and so it had to get leaked. It was it
was a DJ who out of Atlanta, I remember who
played it without asking No, He's like now they got
to hear it, and as soon as they got leaked,
it was just like it was all and they had
to put it out. But ship wasn't giving up the
rights to Tucacs, so I had to go to a

(53:29):
phoene and uh, Phenie stuck up for me. She's like, no,
my son played me Are You Still Down? He loved
that song, and you know it was it was one
of his favorite songs that he did because he didn't
play me a lot of his music and he played
me that song. He was proud of that. So she
named his first album that she put out after his death,

(53:50):
are You Still Down? It was like a compilation of
a lot of records because that was the last song
that he did. So yeah, man, that was to have
that kind of like hit me like that. It was
a lot to inherit that, you know, in terms of
the burden that that would represent. He wasn't there to
vouch for me anymore. It's like putting out a song
with you really record with it studio, right, you know

(54:12):
where's Tupac John? You know it's like what I mean,
So it's it's been a lot, but it's nothing better
on the great moments. We've got some rm B questions

(54:38):
for you, Jim. You're thinking, I think I need a refill.
You like it. I think I've never had that before.
That's like vanilla. So I've always want to notice before,
you know, before we can get to that. What's the
b oh Man make me go country y? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

(55:01):
never another reason why somebody knows what the V stays for.
My last name is Buck, like the dollar bill. Okay, yeah, okay, Bucks,
that's that's yeah. I could have been that Johnny Bucky.
You need something you need? You would have definitely been
a country singer. If you're da Johnny Buck, John Buck.

(55:21):
My real name is Johnny. Your real name is yeah right, yeah, Jonathan,
are you john? I'm Johnny Johnny, Yeah, I'm Johnny Jonathan,
I'm Jonathan H. J O n Ah, Yeah, makes sense,
makes sense. Okay, Now I'm back man, so good to
see you. Yeah, the big man. HM. So come on, chief.

(55:49):
What you got for questions? Questions for it? Looks for
this R and B. I'm in the zone. R and
big guy right here. He's a guy. Guy, he's a guy. Um.
Top five favorite R and B artists all time, all times. Well,
I mean, here you go, okay, um, okay. Well let's

(56:12):
say Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, you know, Michael Jackson. That's
what I'm saying. And I gotta I gotta mention Stokely.
I gotta say Tank you know what I'm saying. I
gotta say that's that's, that's that's you made John B

(56:34):
stop five B. Yeah, he's been cooking. I mean, I mean,
and the reason why I say top five is because
if this is sort of the order that I discovered, well,
you know what I will say, even before Stokely though,
it is Johnny Gil. I mean, it's it's a hard

(56:55):
toss up between Stokely and Johnny Gil because Johnny Gils
had to discover very legendary career Johnny Girl discovered first.
I'm not gonna lie before breaking my heart. It was
my mind. What I'm saying, put on that red dress,
some on, put on that race. I still I still
do that both of those songs in my set, like

(57:16):
I have to show to show the the lineage and
where you know where it comes. Yeah, okay, alright, that's
a that's a great list I appreciate. And that's where,
like I said, when I found my tone, that's when
I when I heard your voice. Brother, That's what I mean.
So I gotta give you a flowers were not uh

(57:38):
top five R and B songs? Oh okay, Well, that's
always been a hard question from me because there's a
lot of eras of R and B. So I have
to go back to my favorite era, which is which

(57:59):
is the the eighties and nineties era, but like mid
mid eighties and um, I would say Kenny Stand the
Rain is probably my number one of my favorite R
and B song. Um and Never Keeping Secrets by baby

(58:21):
Face is one of the best written songs and produced
songs like it's it's just such a great it's just
the one he wrote. That's when I basically came into dude.
Do you know that that was my entrance to the
music industry. I got to play that little part dude,
no face, but that was my first job for him,

(58:44):
was to play behind him in his band. Okay, so
like what dude, but he got the Soul Train Award
that year for that song and you and he allowed
me to play that that said. Uh so you know
there was a there was a whole year of being
part of his squad that I didn't wasn't you know,
it wasn't even John B. I had Jonathan B was

(59:05):
my name at that point on my on my demos,
Jonathan I still hadn't dropped the the you know, the
half of my name. But yeah, okay, so let's get
back to the rain. Never keeping secret And this is
just kind of off the head of I said, never
keep it secrets because, like I said, that's the whole story.
Me cut my teeth in the industry, um um breaking

(59:28):
my Heart uh in condition absolutely one of the greatest
songs from the arrangement the music never going Away live
band music And when was that ever, like other than
Earth Went in Fire and and and stuff like that
in terms of ballads. But it just like you know,
how reasons It's like, yeah, it's just just got that

(59:53):
horn thing and it's very memorable. Yeah, I mean, everybody
start going crazy. You're spilling drinks. I mean exactly as
soon as I do that, they know right away, Oh
that's pretty brown. Yeah, that's up there a big time.
I mean, why not say my my mind because it
is one of the like, it is one of the

(01:00:15):
greatest written songs, and talk about uh person to find
what it feels like to be grown even though I
was so young. That's a very grown up, very grown
up of that. The way that it sounds, it's very direct.
The drums track on that is so I mean, it's

(01:00:41):
so just the m is that ken, it's so classics,
like you know, and it was and it was I
won't say a life saver, but it was the defining
moment for Anny Gil coming out of new edition because

(01:01:03):
rub you the right way. We were gonna we were
going to accept it because it was Johnny Gil. It wasn't,
but it wasn't. That was a hell of a stroke.
What would you say, stroke? You have the dad Rod

(01:01:27):
the man. It was like, I was like, we'll accept it.
But then when that I want to be your fan friend. Yeah,
you do this to me when time aging yeah, Okay,
that was hot. Okay, I got I got one for you, Okay, Alexander, Ohneil,

(01:01:47):
don't you do it? Sun Show, Sunshine, sun Touch, be
with Day with Sunshine. They knew had them things, man
knew had them things. Man, I can never give myself away.

(01:02:08):
Who's with him next to her? Those movies beaching now
for my love? When that's why, that's why. Okay, So
let's do this. Let's make up, let's make up. Let's
make an R and B voltron. We just we just

(01:02:30):
got a new nuance added to the to the arm voltron.
So this is what we're gonna do. It's it's vocals,
it's styling, it's it's what do we call it? Emotion?
We got emotion now and performance. We're gonna take these
four things and build an artist. We're gonna start with

(01:02:53):
the vocals. Who are you taking the vocals from? Oh
my god, that's so hard. Um, Marvin Gaye, Marvin Gaye's vocals,
Marvin Is it can be someone that's that's not Marvin's. Yeah,
I think that's honestly my favorite vocalist because I think

(01:03:13):
it was the subtleties of his swag. It's just like
Michael Jackson was a very rhythmic person. All that stuff
along with all that the smoothest girl, closure run very
just He's got so much texture to his voice. But
I think what made him so amazing was the rhythm
behind it, what made Marvin so its a very similar thing,

(01:03:36):
but he was not as not as much of an
aggressive rhythm person as much as almost accompanying himself like
an instrument. There were multiple songs the guitar. Yeah, yeah,
it's like like like a part do the horns and
oh you know, just be like he's doing the horn

(01:04:00):
parts and he's doing so you'd hear a vocal on
the left side. It's almost like that. He was the
first one to do that, right, I mean, and now
that's all over our music now. Yea, So those equivalents,
that's one of my favorite things that you do. I
love your answer tracks. I love your main vocal that

(01:04:21):
you're doing, but all these these answer things flying, yes,
the flying just the compliment. Nobody sings like that, telling
you man, Nobody sings like that. Bro. When I first
heard Sam Smith that, I thought, there's a tank fan.
There's a thing you know, spit me. Come on, man,

(01:04:46):
you don't even sing like that no more. I got
so many calls and tweets he doesn't. He kind of
went away from a female now you know. They thought
that that was my record. Everybody thought that, oh, Tank
out a new record. That. Oh. I was like, I
do oh a couple of and then when I heard
the record, I was like this, yeah, yeah, you say that.
He sent you a text. It was like we talked.

(01:05:07):
We talked on man and man. Do you know who
I recently made a mean acquaintance too? That was just
a huge I should have mentioned him because he's a
huge influence as well as Maxwell I met. I met
him very researchly at the Diddy party in Vegas, and uh, man,
it was a really special moment to just shake a
hand and look a person in the eye and be

(01:05:27):
like yo, man, you thank you. And likewise it was similar.
He's a fan of music. He knows like as much
as you, as much as Maxwell looks kind of like
he's in his own world and kind of separated me
because I mean, I think for for me growing up,
Maxwell was always like this mystical character, you know what

(01:05:48):
I'm saying, Like he had our brushed. He just brushed
his tea. He was just set that all he was
just in a difference. You know, I'm gonna brush my
teeth beautiful song. Was you think that like he's just
offen to his own thing and doesn't need to worry

(01:06:10):
about the rest of the world. But he knows he's
paying attention. He's paying attention. He's a fan of music,
you know what I'm saying. That's what I appreciate producers.
I mean, come on, that shows a lot of tastes
and a lot of Already. Okay, so we got the
vocals from Marvin. Now we need to get the styling.
What do you want your artists? Who do you want

(01:06:30):
your artists to look? It's time to get fly. It's
time to get fly. Oh, I mean it's who I mean? Wow.
Let's let's say just because for me, it's kind of
like I kind of uh, I stole a lot from

(01:06:56):
what was baby Face and a hit, you know, the
door kind of a little bit of that vibe, and
then the clean essence of like wearing kind of like
cleaner kind of upscale clothing. Back then, I loved I
loved the deal style. I love baby and I was
very GQ, very g Q and It wasn't what we

(01:07:18):
were afraid when I saw him live. It was he
did three suit changes in his show, and I thought
it was very fitting. It just it just worked how
he hit it with swag. I was like, that's how
your voice. And they faced Tony Braxton show. You know
what I mean. I'm sitting here, I'm watching Tomorrow Braxton,

(01:07:40):
little baby, sixteen year old Tomorrow Braxton singing backgrounds for
you know, and I'm going, wow, okay, this is I'm
then I see her grow up to be this artist,
you know. But I watched them. That whole thing happened
like from the very beginning. I caught the end of
I caught I caught the riding, the way of breathe,

(01:08:01):
breathe again. He was writing his I watched him make
waiting to exit. Come on, man, champagne. And here in
the next two year or has he poured it off?
Poured all the champagne first? Mike Jackson, Madonna has watched
him and watched him. Do I mean you know I
could watch him more With Elder barn Did you ask

(01:08:22):
him what secretary was, because that's not an actual sec occupation.
I know a secretary is, but I don't know if
a secretary secret is an actual occupation. Of course I
would ask this secretary what the fund is a secretary?
And then you just you just gotta make a few words, man,

(01:08:42):
you know face like, yeah, styling's very very early R
and B g Q from Baby Face, vocals from Marvin Gaye.
Who are you gonna get your emotion from? When you
get your heart from? Well, that's oh man, I wish
I would because I'm gonna get baby dropping down to

(01:09:02):
their knee. Come on, man, that's no. But I mean,
Kenny is the greatest songwriter ever bro Like, I'm gonna
give him all the props right now, just because there's
nobody else who can make you believe them with a
love song sad happy. I mean that I'm talking about
in the nineties like there was in the late eighties.

(01:09:24):
I mean, when you think about tender Roni, you think
about On our Own, Bobby Brown, you think about can
we talk? My mind? Can't we talk? It's having Campbell
the man. I mean, was it uh the end of
the road? Um? Like defining moments in my life growing

(01:09:45):
up and having you know, uh girlfriends and breaking up
and having songs that were reconciliation songs getting back together
to you know, songs that were kind of you just
have playing in the background when all that debate, it was,
it was how I cut my tail, Like as an
R and B guy, there's nobody that I would want

(01:10:08):
a song from emotion written. Write to your point, bro.
I remember being at the Underdogs and and baby Face
having this song that he recorded on this group. We

(01:10:30):
had a hell of Phi singer in the group. No,
I'm not gonna say a group hell of Phi singer
in the group who sang the hell out of the song.
Baby Face song sang the hell out of it. And
I was like, mm hmm. It was, you know, trick tricking,
a bunch of twists and turns and athletics. See what

(01:10:52):
I'm saying in the vocals, right, And he's like baby
Face like and then baby Face sang the song, not
all the acrobatics, not all the twist and turn, all
the fields, all all the fields. It was like, it's

(01:11:17):
a great artist to pick from. Oh my god. It's
like the way that you express yourself even when you speak, bro,
It's like you you're a very charismatic person. So it's
like there's there's a lot of um emotion behind what
you say because you're not afraid to say how you feel.
Because you're able to express how you feel, people get
where you're coming from and they received that. And that's

(01:11:40):
that's a gift man, because um, that means anything that
you say, you know it's going to turn that statement
into something else. It could be something the smallest little statement,
but um, the way that you say it now all
of a sudden is is what makes it so special,
you know. So I feel like we all have our

(01:12:01):
own little fingerprint. We could put on those those statements,
our own way. We should have that, you know. But
just there's certain ones that just stick around, like you
can't get that. You can't even wash that off the wall.
I think you know what I'm saying, just because it's
so it's just he just put the stuff. He just
puts the stuff on it. Fourth piece of the four

(01:12:25):
pieces performance, who are you taking the performance? Well, I
mean Chris Brown's me. You can do all that and
then you can back and that you can temple people
who can fly across the stage not be winded. And
I mean the most I think if there's gonna be

(01:12:46):
a Michael Jackson of our you know, of our in
this era, he is our Michael Jackson. You know, I
would give it to Usher because he's been just as
resilient of an artist to be withstand all of the
just all the things that the times and how everything's changed,
and he's changed with it and he's involved another incredible

(01:13:09):
influence on me as a singer. So yeah, I mean
your yeah, baby Face, Kenny and Chris Bryant, Lord Jaysus.
I don't know, I just can't think the look thing
kind of shoot me because I don't really know what

(01:13:29):
an artist should look like. But I just remember when
I first started as as an artist, I was paying
attention to the slickness of what was happening at the time.
And I think it's really okay to get back to that, y'all, Like,
let's get back to because in the nineties we will slick.
He was not afraid to put on you know what
I mean, fabric field. That's what bad Boy was. The

(01:13:50):
party shirts party because you put on a nice shirt
to go. You can't get in the club with just anything.
Oh you couldn't get no T shirts allowed. Put Yeah,
but don't your ship. Sure a b will say put
that ship. Yeah, so I got I got a special segment.
It's called I Ain't saying no names? Will you tell

(01:14:14):
us a story? Funny? Are fucked up? Are both? Okay?
But the only rule you just don't say their name? Okay? Oh,
I could have done that with the Diane War. I
mean to put you out there. Um, all right, mm hmm.

(01:14:37):
Who do I want to expose? Right, it's your segment,
my brother? Oh man? Um, you know it's it's always
crazy because you go through the business and would learn
one definitely things that I learned in the business. It's
one thing to be in the corporates side of the industry.

(01:15:01):
And so I grew up kind of backwards where it's
like I got the most credible, powerful manager from the
very beginning. As soon as I signed to baby Face,
all assigned to Gallen and Morey, which was Matt Michael
Jackson's management firms. You know what I'm saying. So I
got Michael Jackson on the same you know management firm,
you know what I mean, managed by his manager. It's

(01:15:23):
like insane to start from that. You know the names already, right,
and then go that's fine because I'm I'm a traverse.
That's not that's not who I'm but but one thing
is for sure. It's like you know, when you experience
that first and then you no longer have that management
and you move on to other managers and managers are

(01:15:46):
they come in all kinds of different statuses. They got
the super powerful, high end managers who every label would
answer their phone call, and then you've got guys who
are on the come up. Growing up in the music industry,
I didn't know who to be loyal to in terms of, like,

(01:16:07):
you know, do you stay corporate or do you just
take people at face value and trust energies and vibes
from people. So I was much more of a truster
rather than a person that was just take your word,
Oh this is who you need to corporate blah blah blah.
It was much more of like industries like Biden with guys.
You know what I'm saying. So if I if I
like your energy, I might work with you, and you

(01:16:28):
might not even have on your anybody on your roster.
You might just be a totally independent manager. Anyway, I
ended up working with some some guys during the time
that I met you um for that project, and it's
really was not the move to make because what happens
when you sometimes when you work with people who aren't established,

(01:16:50):
they use you as like like almost like the main
thing to base off everything. I mean, I had light
bills put in my name and in cars and things.
You what I'm saying I found out about later on
like dollar like being why what is this I'm paying
for this over here and this and that. It's basically
just a reason a check. They're just getting a way

(01:17:12):
to be able to make money and just living off
you and not not really bringing anything to the table.
They'll be like, oh, such such wants to get at you.
It's like, all right, cool, do I need to pay
you for that? Like you know what I mean? Like
it's literally you just told me now I have to
go do the work, right, so I have to pay
you for that, right? All right? So that's right there,
you know, off of whatever check that was to you

(01:17:34):
for just giving me that phone call, which is I
guess it's it's it's fair, but it's not to me.
It's like what what constitutes management? What is management? You
know what I'm saying in terms of like what's the
work that you're gonna actually do to bring to the table?
What isn't already there? Because this is my table. It's

(01:17:55):
not our table. This is my table. You're person sitting
at my table, So what are you going to put
on that? We're eating food right now, right this is
my table. We're eating dinner. I'm having some food prepared.
What are you going to bring to the table? That's

(01:18:17):
the main thing, because at the end of the day,
I paid for this meal to even happen. We're sitting
at this table with a reservation because we had reservation,
and I have to pay for the bill at the
end of the night. So that's the thing when you

(01:18:37):
learn all this backwards like I did with all the
glitz and the glamour. I mean, I'm going I'm sitting
right next to Whitney Houston at the Grammys my first
year with baby Face, you know, for someone to love
because we got nominated. That's not a regular situation. I
learned backwards, Like so I had to go from that
to being like okay, you know, you know, not being

(01:19:03):
invited to a lot of different awards shows and wondering
why and being like okay, you know, and just kind
of playing the you know, the back of the scenes
a little bit more, you know, and just kind of
appreciate it. But it was because of of guys like that.
The guy I'm describing was just not in the industry
but wanted to be, but was willing to just live
off of me and take what was coming to me,

(01:19:26):
you know, to kind of keep me at bay. And
if you spend enough time dealing with people like that,
you're you're gonna fall off. Like you, there's something that's
gonna happen within you that will be not conducive for
the industry. The industry is gonna start saying stuff about
either gonna talk about either, you know what I mean.
And so two thousand four, as I'm saying, I'm stronger

(01:19:48):
every day, ironically enough, was the beginning of an era
that the industry for some reason wasn't feeling me. They
were like, well, that's cool, where's the baby? You know.
I don't know what they were thinking, but it definitely
wasn't like our our song, Our song Lately went Hard. Um.
I had other records on that album that We're Dope

(01:20:08):
as well. I worked with Kenny on that album, but
for some reason, that album wasn't as welcomed as other
as other albums of mine. And I didn't know if
it was the promotion. I didn't know what it was.
I just but I really now know that it was
the management that I had in all the people that
I had closest to me around me that were the

(01:20:31):
made that whole. So I don't almost lost my house. Um,
I mean, it's it's the management. It's tough, it's a
it's a real miracle that I still live where I
live because of the fact that we were able to
work everything out with with my my current business managers
and stuff like that. But it's it was a lot
to have to to to to bail myself out or

(01:20:53):
you know, first, I was the divorce of a high
school sweetheart that I'm married, you know, like straight out
of high school, trying to didn't want my life to change,
so I tried to marry her and that was a
bad deal. So we you know, we got divorced. And
right after that, you know, it was like three years
of being sort of in this limbo place where it

(01:21:13):
was like because of these managers, and I was just
really I was mad at the music industry. I was like,
I've already done. I've already sold platinums. What why do
I have to keep proving myself like this. I just
want to celebrate the music now and and do me,
you know. But it was there was a lot of
a lot of voices around me at that time that

(01:21:34):
kind of being like, well, they're just I don't know,
I can't really get people to fight on this. I
can't you know, I don't know if they're feeling it.
Promoters don't really you know, it's like, what hold on, man,
back off. Maybe it's as soon as I moved those
people out of the way and I will I will
say the defining moment was when I met my wife, Um.

(01:21:59):
I had already known her for like ten years before
we were more romantically involved, but basically she was started
off as a friend of mine and we kind of
established ourselves and you know, more than that after after
knowing each other, like even liking each other and flirting
and all that. But it was it was the one

(01:22:19):
thing that kind of I related to her so much.
I was like, why don't you just try to get
me some gigs? Like you try? You know. She was
like all right, well cool, and so we It was
that kind of out of necessity because we were both
so disenfranchised with management. The whole idea of giving so
much power to someone and then they could take it
for grant to do whatever steer you into essentially where

(01:22:41):
you don't want to be. Um. Yeah, So I was like, man, like,
let's just try this. And we've been rocking together ever since.
And I mean we turned my brand around. Man, we
we turned everything around. And I mean everything that we've
done has been independent for the last fifteen years. It's
been crazy that I've been a was stay, a float

(01:23:01):
and more than a float. I mean, I'm one of
the hardest working men. And the beautiful, beautiful tour we
did at the City one around was telling you love
that venue and the fans just it's just such an
incredible opportunity to reconnect with my fans. You know, the

(01:23:23):
COVID took us out for eighteen months man, when he
wasn't gigging. So it's just such a blessing. We know,
we know he was like, yeah, you know what hey man.
You know, I was like, I gotta get on the road.
I was like, come on, I gotta get on this road, man.
This is I was just I was really disappointing because

(01:23:44):
I had just done a record with my man, don
El Jones. We got in the studio and we did
it song. I played the record on the road. We
were on the road and I played it to him.
He's like, man, I like that, and I was like
you do. I was like, let's cut this, let's let's
get it. So he was so cool about it. Man.
He sent me the file right back. I was like,
let's do this video. He came to shot the video

(01:24:05):
with me. Man. I was like, honored, man, And it
was really h uh, you know, an honor for me
to work with a legend like that shout out, we
need the that's this is where you want to be,
this is this is where you want to mar you money.
This is what he He's one of us, that's what
he does. So that's why it was that. It was
a huge blessing to haven't come blessed me on that

(01:24:26):
that track. Understands the name of the record. I wrote
and produced it myself and shot that video. Man, it
was like it felt real good, like all right, this
is something new. Put this out and then COVID HiT's
like you know. We had another song we put out
called Priceless as well. We did a video for that
as well, so check them out, man, if you haven't
checked it out, understand and Priceless are available now. But

(01:24:47):
that kind of the whole COVID then kind of shut
the album process down because it's like, all right, what
do we do now? You know? Um? What I ended
up during doing during the the the whole the Anoramic, yeah,
was I did these online performances man, which was was

(01:25:09):
really cool. I found a really cool venue downtown. It
was like a loft kind of energy with like dim lights.
We brought the you know, we brought the crew with
the cameras and we just it was a multi camera
set up so it was like it was it was
shot well, you know, like moving cameras, a little movement,
you know what I mean, a little panty and we
had a little you know, mark audience kind of just

(01:25:30):
maybe ten fifteen people showing um and uh. We put
that on and every every month I got in touch
with my fans. I was like, what do you want
to hear this one? You know? And he was going
direct to consumer, so it was it was a great
way to kind of test myself too, Like all right,
I haven't done this one a long time. Let's break

(01:25:50):
this went out from the first album or whatever. So yeah,
it was really really fun. And some of those songs
that I actually dusted off, you know, dusted brought out
of crazy. I was like, uh, I was like, man,
I'm scared to sing this one because the range was
when but boys like, it's good to sing those songs man,
you know, and and bring those back and now some

(01:26:12):
of them actually made it into my current set now.
So it's a fun time. Brother John B Dam Mr
bucks Man big Bucks Big that was like a game
back in the day. No ways big Bucks, no Wammy,
big R and b Bucks Um. One thing that you know,

(01:26:36):
one thing that I've always been impressed about you is,
you know, along with your humility, you're just extremely gracious
cheers bro, You're just extremely like you know, it's always
a smile and it's always like, well at least we've
got water, Like you're oh, I'm I'm definitely the glasses

(01:27:03):
have full. Like I'm definitely that. But you're like you're
like my mirror image and you're probably step further. I
wish you could hear the news I haven't about to
put out it's called waiting on you. Right, man, You're
like the number one influence for the song, and you
are the person that is the reason why I felt

(01:27:25):
like that. There's there's only so many people I can
say can reflect an emotion that's similar like this, and
I hope that's a It says how much you've affected
me as an artist. You know, when when you can
relate to someone so much that it's like you don't
have to try. The grown man John By has has

(01:27:47):
been around the tanks, you know what I'm saying and
taking some notes and be like, nah, you know when
you when you crow the way and you you could
be like bent over and kind of like no, but
you yeah, back lifted and you just know you're gonna
get that weight up right. That's the way I'm approaching
what I'm doing now. This is a different confidence. Has

(01:28:09):
a grown man the muscle developed muscles well without being
physically you can't really compare that, no, you know, but
I will say I'm working on those things, preserving those
you know here part time trying to man, I just
randomly got I'm trying to John today. If it's a

(01:28:32):
rap job to get a sixth bag I'm not doing
We're not doing that. No. If I take my shirt
off on stage, who never, you never ever see that.
I think it's only you probably weren't that twite one
or two times you got the voice music? Yeah, you

(01:28:52):
got you got it all. Man. We have been honored, Um,
we have been honored to spend a lot of time
with Man. We just we I don't even I don't
even been counting how long to talk vibe and to
hear your story and you know, and to tap into
you know, just hear about all of these awesome legendary

(01:29:14):
artists that you just came in the game and just
tackled like that's just that's not normal, man, It's not normal. Man.
Salute to you and you're you're still your your ever
growing career. Man. We always see each other on the
road and it's always love. It's always a beverage always

(01:29:36):
and and I promise you, man, that is never going
to change from you. Don't even know what that means
to me, Bro, to run into you like this and
had this opportunity to reconnect with you, bro, because I mean,
we we got history. We've been rocking together for some
years now. I remember when you first came out. I
was in London talking on radio like I got this

(01:29:56):
new single I'm about to you know, because we had
just worked. It was right not too long after your
first first couple of singles worked and so you know,
they hadn't really gotten you yet over in London yet.
They were on their way, but it was just just
starting the bubble and I was like, no, Tank is
the future. Tank is the future. You know, Lately is

(01:30:18):
about to be. And you know we made it to
the top top. It was a top five record in London.
A lot of people that don't know that that was
Lately made it. I went to t rl MTV in England, yeah,
to go talk about the video on the song and
working with you and so yeah, ladies and gentlemen, I

(01:30:40):
don't know who you get to hang out with, you
know what I'm saying, you know, doing your afternoons and
just kick it with and get good information from there.
But if the Rmy Money podcast, me and my brother
Day Bound the time we got the kicks, Mr John Man,
please make some Lloyd's for my brothers, then R and

(01:31:12):
B Money. R and B Money is the production of
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