Stephen Hill

 Welcome to Episode 144 of the R&B Money Podcast, where we sit down with the visionary Stephen Hill, former President of Programming at BET. Known for transforming BET into a powerhouse of Black entertainment, Stephen shares his journey through the world of television and media.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
R and B Money, Honey, we are than take vlotie.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
We are the authority on all.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Things ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Money is tank and this is the R and B
Money podcast on.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
The authority.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
On all things R N B Ah.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
There is a man I was curated the air waves.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
And the TV waves and created a cultural movement that
we have all prescribed to.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
We'll all called this man many a time and said,
please please.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Let me on your platform, please, because he was cracking.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
That ship, popping know with real music, real artistry.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
He knows what that real thing is and what it
is supposed to be like as an icon in a building.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
And he's gonna dance to it too. He's gonna He's
gonna dance. He gonna dance. He's gonna enjoy.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
Himself at the shelf we all have, I would rather
enjoy himself.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Ladies and gentlemen, forgive me for taking so long on
this interrupt This man's special.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
To me since the beginning of my career.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
He has been an absolute driving force and an inspiration,
a battery, a man to tell you let you know
you are on the right path. He is sitting two
feet away from me, and his name is mister Stephen
Hill yarn abound here.

Speaker 5 (02:10):
Wow, I would I would like to bottle that and
put it on us after shave.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Everything is this?

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Is it Stephen Stephan? Like, okay, yeah, I'm sure.

Speaker 5 (02:22):
Really, I'm sure, I'm sure about your name with Stephen
for all my lifetime until Curry came along, it is Stephan.

Speaker 6 (02:31):
Every uber driver in the world, it's Stephan.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
It's the Beyonce thing. It's the Beyonce. Come on, man,
I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
I'm going with it. Stephan.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Everybody in R and B know what it is. My
mom in R and B.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
No, brother, I remember like him yesterday. I remember there
was a show called spring Blink.

Speaker 5 (02:57):
Oh gosh, two words I'm not in my mouth in
consecutive order for years.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Let me let me tell you. Let me tell you
about it. And I call it to spring bling down.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
In Daytona, in Daytona, and I got my guys with me,
mowet and I'm and I'm looking around, and I'm like,
this must be heaven. I don't know if they've imported
all these young ladies, if they're just nestled here on
the beach like this all the time from Daytona. But

(03:32):
I am going to sing like my life depends on it.
And I proceeds to sing my songs, my my one hit,
maybe I Deserve and slowly is kind of percolating, you know.
I sing my tunes, so you sing slow Jams. I
sing on the beach because I have a purpose.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Okay, I'm I'm and an ability. You know what I'm
trying to do?

Speaker 3 (04:00):
The ability? You know what I'm trying. And you don't
got no up. I don't.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
I gotta leave my strength.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
The first episode of the work, I couldn't perform that
on so I perform performed. We feel like it's a
great performance, you know what I'm saying. We we finger
tip and touching the ladies of the front, like all right,
let's go back to our room, you know, rotating the

(04:31):
the the holding areas, you know, lartist seeing artists out,
that kind of thing. And we're walking on our way
back to the room, and I just I hear running,
I hear like.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
I hear, and we're like, what the fuck is that
it is? Stephen Hill?

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Okay you.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Met Steve all right?

Speaker 2 (04:54):
And I'm thinking to myself, Okay, I guess this guy's
got somewhere to be he's gonna run past us and
get to where he's going. He stops right in front
of me. He says, I'm Stephen Hill. I'm you know,
I run all this. You're incredible And we were saund like.
I was like what he's like this, You're incredible. Wow,

(05:16):
great job, amazing job. WHOA, We've got a lot of
a lot of stuff for you. Good job. Shook my
hand and walked off. And that's Stephen Hill for me.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Wow. Always been there since Dy Won.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
So for me, like this guy is like, you know,
extremely instrumental in and giving me that type of confidence
like spring bling b et at that time, that was
like you had to be there.

Speaker 5 (05:53):
I'm just glad I was right. I was like that
if you were flamed down, this.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Story was down at the bar right now, man was
the next looster right now. Look look, I'm glad you
right too, because that five years I had off, I
was like no, no, no, no, I've all Look.

Speaker 5 (06:23):
I have been a fan of true talent, true singing
talent and performing talent because I believe people can have
talents in other areas that just don't include the tones
that come out of their mouths. Right, I really appreciate
those who who take time with their craft and really
learn it and hone it and improve and are just naturally.

Speaker 6 (06:46):
Gifted so much so that I married one.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
So anyhow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I
did the same.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
The same look at surprises, but I did when she
say yes, I.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Did the same thing. Yeah, where does this start? Like
your your love for for this? Because like, like like
you you were you were the president, right, and so
there's a there's a business, there's a politic, and all
of that that goes along with what you do, which

(07:21):
makes it very tough for you to lead with the
thing that is most important, which is your heart and
your gut and your feeling. And I feel like you
you would fore go business and fore goal politic to
do what you felt and nobody could tell you anything.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
How where does that start for you?

Speaker 5 (07:44):
So, I mean, I'm going to address that because that's
a great point. The business and politic. I always hated,
I hated it hates a little too strong a word.
But I really did that and tried to improve how
I did that just so I could stay close to
the music, just like I stayed close to the songs,
like I guess I'm known for TV, but my love

(08:06):
has always been music. It's not I didn't, you know
I did. I backed into television through music, through through
MTV and then and then be ET and then just
tried to be the best person I could so I
could beat close to music. So that's really that's really
my story. I got used to the business and politics,

(08:26):
but my love never became that. It was never the
art of the deal. It was how great can we
make these shows? What new show can we make to
highlight artists like? That was always the driver.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
So do you have a backstory where you were like
in a group or something like that when you were
growing up?

Speaker 3 (08:45):
So you just you saved the dance moves into the
ward show.

Speaker 5 (08:48):
I did stressed before each a ward show. What I
did want to do is pull a muscle, and when
I knew I was gonna do is dance.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
So I so you were never nothing.

Speaker 5 (09:01):
I have, no I have. I believe I have musical
ability that I did not capitalize on us out the
world I want, But you didn't explore it. I did
not explore it or exploit or dedicate the time that
I needed to when I was twelve years old, right,
So I took piano lessons for maybe six or seven months,

(09:25):
and it's funny, and then my mom and dead let
me quit. They let me quit, and I took drums
for like three months and let me quit. I'm gonna
jump ahead fast forward. My son we made a deal
when he was thirteen. I was like, you're staying in
piano till seventeen. You can try soccer, anything else you
want to do and quit, but you've got to pick
one thing. And he picked piano that you got to

(09:48):
do through your seventeen and then you can decide after
that whether you want to do it or not. And
it was purely based on like I wish I hadn't
been allowed to quit. It's six months, and he was
the only sixteen year old who could play Scott Joplin slawlessly, slawlessly.
By the time he was sixteen, Jayden could play Scott
Joplin flawlessly Scott Joplin. So it was it was good

(10:11):
to say, like, oh, my failure became his success.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I'm good with that. Yeah, you made sure you Joe Jackson.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
Play past seventeen.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
He did.

Speaker 5 (10:20):
He did for two years after seventeen, and then then
he finally dropped out, but he still loves he still.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Play loves in jamming.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
And and what what leads you into I guess as
you say, right, yes, is it radio?

Speaker 7 (10:32):
Right?

Speaker 1 (10:32):
What leads you into that?

Speaker 6 (10:34):
I was I was four years old.

Speaker 5 (10:36):
My my, my babysitter, Sheila Pegeese, who I had a
massive crush on, would bring over stack of forty five
to the house whenever we we had good by forty five.
Those are the things that vinyl spin, small vinyls boys
and men when they had their own company, their their
logo was the spindle that in the middle. And so

(10:59):
the first song I remember hearing was the name game Banana.

Speaker 6 (11:05):
And from there on, I just love music.

Speaker 5 (11:08):
We'd listened to music when she when she'd come over,
and then I got into James Brown and the Temptations,
and uh, you know, the Jackson five is a whole
that's a whole chapter of itself, but just the motown sound.
And I know it's R and B is the R
and B Podcast, But it's like, but, but soul is
what our soul is what really brought me in.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
But we consider R and B to B. Okay, it's
just we don't do the sub genre thing. You sing
it from your heart. It's got some rhythm and some
blues in it. Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. We're in
the same club. We're in the same club. And so
you know, it led me. I loved music all the
way through.

Speaker 5 (11:49):
I thought everybody was was as obsessed as I was.
I thought everybody read every credit on every album like
I did. I thought everybody listened to every groove. I
thought every they slowed down the forty five to thirty
three so they could understand the lyrics.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I thought everybody did all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
You was directed.

Speaker 5 (12:05):
Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely. And so when I got to college,
to Brown University, they had a radio station.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Oh Brown, Yeah, okay, yeah, Brown, so reflect everybody don't
go to Brown. Most of you niggas don't you know Brown.

Speaker 6 (12:22):
And it was a great place. I love I love,
I love it.

Speaker 5 (12:25):
But they had a radio station that wasn't a college
radio station. It wasn't a bunch of kids just like
throwing on what they want. The Brownie radio station was
a commercial radio station.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Right.

Speaker 5 (12:36):
There were only professionals in the sales department and as
the general manager. Everything else, promotions, music director, programming director
was run by kids, and we had to compete for
the same advertising dollars as everybody else in the market.
So it was a real quick It wasn't quick, it
was a it was professional training, right, And so we
bring professionals, other pds from other stations in to help

(12:59):
teach us. We all, we all ran, and we all,
we all populated it. And so unlike folks who came
out of college radio not knowing how to format, not
knowing how to not knowing how you know, kind.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Of schedule, I was, I was. I was.

Speaker 5 (13:11):
I spent more time there than I did in class.
I can only say that because I know my mother
won't be watching. Like literally, I spent more time at
the radio.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Finish. Did I finish college? Ye?

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yes, I finished?

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yes, listen, you finished.

Speaker 5 (13:23):
Guess what applied math economics degree? That's what I got.
What applied math and economics?

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Have you applied that to? I can.

Speaker 5 (13:31):
I could not tell you which way a demand curve
goes right now. But but that was my that was
my that was my thing radio. I was. I wasn't
a good applied math economics. I was a banker for
a man, I'm not gonna lie I was a banker.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
I was.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
I was I was a commercial banker for a for
a second before my big break came.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Oh big break, Yes, I got hired.

Speaker 5 (13:54):
Was w I l D Boston still around when you
when you came through or is it already been shuttered?
It may have been shuttered in the late eighties there
was an AM radio station.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Because I didn't come until two thousand and so, oh.

Speaker 5 (14:08):
Yeah, it may have been showed. I was definitely gone
from then. Gone by then. By about seven or eight years,
it was an A and M radio station in Boston.
If you know Boston, Boston is not the blackest city
in the world, It's not. But Wild on AM was
like the It was the magnet for all black entertainment,
black attraction, black black folks. Like everybody was listening to Wild.

(14:32):
And I got a break there to do a weekend show.
All right, we got times on a dive into this.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Absolutely sorry.

Speaker 5 (14:40):
So the story is I went to Brown University, did WBRU.
I graduated. I tried to get a job in the industry.
Couldn't find anything, couldn't I got. I still have my
rejection letter from Solar Records somewhere right. I was really
trying to get it radio. I just wanted to be
in the business and couldn't do it. I ended up
going back to my oldhigh school and teaching math. So

(15:01):
I did apply the I used the math. I applied
the applied math there.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
And uh, and that was it.

Speaker 5 (15:09):
I was like, Okay, I'm gonna teach. I gotta figure
out what I'm what I'm gonna do. A year and
a half later, Christmas, h Christmas, a year after I
had graduated. I remember his name, Rob Hartley. Rob Harley,
Uh got sick at wbr U. He was a he
was a software when I was there. He was now
now a senior. He got sick. It was Christmas time.
They were understaffed. They were and somebody called me and said, hey,

(15:32):
can you come down do a four hour show? I
know you haven't done it in a while, but would
you have fun.

Speaker 6 (15:36):
I'm like, yeah, it'll be fun. I'll go on this
first Sunday. I went out.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Sunday.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
I go down to Providence, Rhode Island. You know, I
do what I always did before show. I read every paper.
I knew what where the charts were, so when I
brought up the music it would be timely. Everything else
I do more for my four hour show in December.
I think nothing of it, go back to my life
and teaching.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
UH.

Speaker 5 (15:56):
In April the following year, I get a call from
that knew I do know, you'll know this name, el
Roy Smith.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
El Roy Smith, who was the program director.

Speaker 5 (16:04):
Of Wild at the time before he went to Dallas
and before in Chicago. He's a very very very big
influential radio guy, but at was the start of his
career as the program director there.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
He said, Steven Stephen Hill.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
I'm like, yeah, el Roy Smith.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
What I didn't know is that when I was on
the radio those four hours, that one Sunday, when I.

Speaker 6 (16:25):
Hadn't been on for a year and a.

Speaker 5 (16:27):
Half, el Roy Smith was driving through Providence, Rhode Island,
a route I found out later he'd only taken twice
in the last three years.

Speaker 6 (16:36):
In the previous three years, he heard me on the radio.

Speaker 5 (16:40):
He called back the next day, but since I had
been gone, the people who were there didn't know. There's
like Stephen Hill, like, we don't have Stephen Hill on Sundays.
I don't know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
But he didn't give up.

Speaker 5 (16:50):
He finally called somebody who called the station, and somebody
who was a friend of mine happened to pick up
the phone and he called me.

Speaker 6 (17:01):
So my whole career revolves around one.

Speaker 5 (17:05):
Sunday where if Robert Harley doesn't get sick, if I
don't pick up the phone because there were no cell phones,
then right if if if Elroy's not driving through at
that point time, if I don't pick up the phone
when Elroy calls me, I'm not sitting here with you too.
It's like a Star Trek episode, like when something happened,
one thing changes the future.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
That is the one day that changed the future.

Speaker 5 (17:26):
So I've always been so thankful to Elroy, and I've
just I've called myself the luckiest guy in the world
so many times.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
And I still absolutely believe.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
That Elroy calls you. Elro called me. I like, I like,
I like what I heard.

Speaker 5 (17:41):
I like, but I heard Stephen, And tell me more
about yourself.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
You know, how long and how long were you there
at the station?

Speaker 5 (17:58):
I was at w ild until for five years, eighty
eight to ninety three.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Is that fly?

Speaker 5 (18:04):
Yes, fie eighty eight to ninety three, And then I
worked I'll talk about this much, but I worked as
the first executive producer.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
At the Tom Joyner Morning Show.

Speaker 5 (18:13):
No, absolutely, absolutely, they started. They started in January of
ninety four, and they needed someone who could be the
liaison between Tom's wild self and all these very nervous
program directors. They were twelve at first at the radio
stations that were taking him syndicated.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Now those are Tom Joyner is a very famous.

Speaker 5 (18:34):
You least callim fly jack fly jock because he usul
to do a morning show in Dallas and then fly
to Chicago to do the afternoon show in Chicago same.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Day, same day. You know, he was same day morning
show in Dallas.

Speaker 5 (18:47):
They I it was a police escort, but he'd get
to the airport and then literally do the afternoon show
in Chicago. Real popular, Like the only person who did
an interview with Michael Jackson during the bad period. He's
so and so he became a He's Howard Stern was
syndicated and then Tom Joyner was the first African American

(19:07):
syndicated radio person. And so I was the executive producer.
What that meant is that like Tom, if you if
you could, it would be great if you played an
up tempo song right here, Uh, that'd be great.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
So we can satisfy el Roy.

Speaker 5 (19:20):
El Roy's one was one of the pds in twelve
cities Miami, I can't remember Miami, Chicago, but big cities,
and of course it grew to be this b a myth,
but I was the first first there.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
How long did you work with Tom Joyner?

Speaker 5 (19:33):
For a year? For a year and a half, and
then I went to MTV. I moved to New York
for MTV.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
So at this point, you like, that's your that's that's
your last dnning radio.

Speaker 5 (19:46):
That was my That was my last stting radio until
I had had a very lovely and very productive gig
at Sirius XM about about.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
Four years ago.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Oh yeah, I did it. Okay, you I did radio.
I did.

Speaker 5 (20:02):
I smile about that because it is through that show
that my wife and I got reconnected. It was through
the Serious XM Show. Tracy Jordan, thanks you very much.
Booked her as a guest on the show. You were
on the show, You were on my Serious XM show.
You booked her as a guest. But I did not
marry you and.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
I I don't know, you didn't know. I just really.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Man, So how does MTV discover you?

Speaker 5 (20:31):
MTV discovered me because at my time at w b
r u UH Providence at Brown University. A good friend
of mine who I actually did the morning show with,
was then one of the program directors at MTV, And
so there had always been There had been opportunities I
didn't want, and then they wanted me for stuff I

(20:53):
didn't want. And we had done a dance for about
two or three years, and then finally there was an
opportunity that I thought, this is worth leaving the comfort
of Dallas, Texas for and going to New York, a
city I was completely scared of at that point in time.
In nineteen ninety five, before they cleaned up forty second Street.

(21:13):
Just to put it put it in context for those
young folks, forty second Street, which is now Disney five
used to be crack Row crack Row forty second, forty second,
forty second Street in New York. Do you not remember
when forty second Street used to be peep peep shows
and peak shows.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
The first time going to New York and actually walking
around was I guess right around ninety nine, ninety.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Ninety seven.

Speaker 6 (21:42):
Yeah, forgetting how much older than you I am.

Speaker 5 (21:45):
This I gotta keep forgetting how much I think I
see these two you know, I think, I'm like, I'm
with the crew, right.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
You're still with the gang, right, like forty second Street, yo,
And I get these blank faces.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
I'm like, oh.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
Shoot, because really was between ninety five and ninety nine
when Juliani was like, we're getting rid of all this
and we're making people invest in forty second Street. So
my point was New York was a much more dangerous
place than ninety five, and so that's why I was like, ood,
I really don't want to move there, but this opportunity
is that was awesome. I love I'm an R and

(22:23):
B cat, but I grew up in d C where WPGC,
before it was a black station, would play Barry Man
Barry Manilow next to earth Wind and Fire, next to
the Jackson five, next.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
To the Doobie Brothers. Right.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
So my musical intake.

Speaker 5 (22:40):
Was always multi genre, multi genre, and so that served
me great at MTV. It frustrated a few people because
they thought I was going to be the black guy,
and I was the guy who was like, no, no, no,
there's these folks called the Blackstreet Boys. We really should
take a look at them.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Imagine being his homie from Tom Joyner days, he's telling
you about the back Boys. Yea too hot?

Speaker 1 (23:08):
You're not happy with Steve Wow? And what was your
position director? I was director.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
I was a director of music programming, So I was
on the team the selected the way we like to
phrase it, the way America rock now. Back in MTV,
this is back in MTV was actually playing music videos
call it at least at least eight nine hours a day. Yeah,
pure pure videos with with vj's in between, and so

(23:36):
the music really mattered, Like you you played something, you
moved the needle. Yeah, yeah, first song I remember being
involved with, but I was like, no, no, this is
the song we should play. I promise she was gonna hit.

Speaker 6 (23:45):
Was Skilo's I wish ski Loo, I wish.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
I what?

Speaker 5 (23:52):
So I was right, but without MTV would have been
the same thing, right, It's it's really like we put
on MTV and it started to blow up.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
It just it just it.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, it was it was too smart old.

Speaker 5 (24:07):
Yes, yeah, yes, I believe you'll be You're gonna be
talking to uh Chante Moore in a couple in a
few weeks or soon, right, Yeah, really you should ask
her about her involvement with ski Lo's. I wish it's
her story to tell. It's her story to tell. But
she's on the song. She's on the song. We like that, okay, right?

(24:30):
Uh sow first record you pised? The first record I remember.
I remember I picked and I was like, oh that
was that was gonna work and they were there were
kid rock days.

Speaker 6 (24:40):
Radiohead is still one of my favorite.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (24:43):
It is my favorite rock group to this moment, because
I remember when they came out. This was after Creep,
when The Bends first came out, as when I started
and and I was just blown away by their musicianship,
there the risks they were willing to take, and Tom
York's vocals or just he's He's one of my favorite
soul singers. Yeah, so but it was great. Look, I
talk about somebody who loves live shows, like being able

(25:06):
to go. They used to call they used to call
me the local because I go to three shows a night.
I would literally go, like there'd be a showcase that
a label was having early and then there'd be a
Mercury Lounge would have somebody around eight o'clock and then
be a a and I catch the final of some
show at Madison Square Garden or something it was. It
was like Dave Matthews band ever clear. Uh, it was

(25:28):
you know jay Z has started around, it was starting
around you.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
You were really locked in. And that is at once
again sitting in a meeting and them talking about trying
to get certain playlisters and different people in a room. Yes,
you should not have to try to get music people
in a music room. If you really love the music business,

(25:51):
you should know what's coming, what's here, Well, you know
what I mean. You should be involved more so on
it's like, yeah, we think maybe such and such might
come by this showcase. No, if you've signed up for
this thing, you should be at that showcase. Yes, at
whatever level, you're adding a business.

Speaker 5 (26:13):
And I try not to make it a generational thing
because so many people want to talk about to talk
about that, but I just know there's a there was
a passion and I will say an ability.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Right.

Speaker 6 (26:24):
So live music has taken on the chin.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
Technology has made live music take it on the chin
a little bit or a lot of bit over I
think in the last certainly in the last thirty years.
So there's a whole generation who doesn't understand what it's
like to go to a club and hear things out
of tune.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Because it's live just for a moment.

Speaker 5 (26:44):
It's not because you're bad, it's because it's real, live
and the passion may have not the passion in the
note might not have met in that moment, but it's
still a live experience, right, And so I think there's
an entire generation who who does not have that experience,
of course, which makes me always glad that I grew
up when I did, because I got to see Jackson five, Prince,

(27:15):
James Brown all live. And there's very few people who
do it like that now. And it's not their fault.
It's because what they had access to when they grew
up taking music out of school, so they didn't know
how to pick up a guitar in third grade. Like,
there's a whole bunch of societal and technological things that
made it so their experience had to be different.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
I also believe that that the requirement also, or the
people requiring a certain thing kind of changed because we
started gearing or moving away from music, people actually being

(28:02):
in charge of music. Like the preparation of a Jackson five,
you know what I mean, the preparation of a James
Brown of a that's.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
A costly preparation if you want to be that.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
And when the business started overtaking the art, they the
business found ways to cut those.

Speaker 5 (28:34):
Corners debt service over dopeness, and debt service over dopeness.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
And and in their mind yield the same or a
better result on the books. Yes, but from a career
standpoint and in the idea of creating icons, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
It took a hit because they're just swapping people out.
They're swapping people out. It's just like, Okay, who has
a hot record right now that we can tag along to.
We know what's in the pipeline. Oh, it's about one
hundred and fifty thousands in there because they got, you know,
some traction, and the analytics says that this record can
go here if we just throw a little bit of money.

(29:18):
But they're not saying, oh, let's also throw in some
artists development. Let's also get them with a great choreographer
and a vocal coach so they can stop hitting that
bad note that they continue to hit.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
To continue to us all very consistent on that with
the bad note, right, But that is where it.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Where you need music people.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
You need music, You need music people, You need music people.

Speaker 6 (29:53):
Again, I'm gonna sound like the old guy.

Speaker 5 (29:55):
But there was the there was the the mo Austin's
back in the day, like you got three albums before
you got dropped three albums to find yourself, right right,
you got you got multiple opportunities before they were like,
we've given it a shot. It's not going to work,

(30:17):
good luck, and that timeline is just condensed if your
second single doesn't work. And let's not let's not understate
how much the disruptor from tech made all this happen.
Right Once, once you broke up the album, Oh, once
you broke, Once you broke once you allowed you defined

(30:37):
the you know, the album cut and the hot single
or exactly the same price at ninety nine cents and
you only have to buy one.

Speaker 6 (30:46):
It changed, It changed everything, and I.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Think it killed the movie, right, it killed It killed
the story. Yes, like there's a there's a like there
are albums where okay, maybe there's not a hit single,
but the story from song one to thirteen is absolutely incredible.

Speaker 5 (31:08):
The first so y'all have to know this. But Prince
in nineteen eighty eight put out Love Sexy, and he
refused to have any CDs printed that any tracks on it.
You could only put it on and listen from start
to finish. There was no track one track too, and
so I remember there being a big, big fight about that.

(31:30):
He's like, no, that's that's the way, that's how this
is to be consumed.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I wonder, from a business standpoint, how is that.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Well time, because yeah, you can't get it off now
unless you just have a long play of a song
that just goes. But from a publishing and now you're
selling a ten dollars song.

Speaker 6 (31:53):
Well right with Prince publishing was all the same.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
As you say, But.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
The bottom is crazy, top to bottom is crazy. But
it really is taken away. Look, there's some artists will
still make the entire artistic statement.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (32:11):
And I love I love when that happens.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
I love.

Speaker 5 (32:15):
There's nothing I love more than like sitting on a
on a car ride and listen to an album front
to back. And I there's few of them in the
last twenty years that that make me want to do that.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I get for me.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
Also, it's an age thing I always wanted. I always
want to asterisk I'm I'm older. But I think it's
also the way that the business has been set up.
The business has been set up thanks to uh, Steve Jobs.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
I still listen the same way though for me, from
buy an album. If you put out an album, I'm
going I'm not going to jump to the song that
got a star on it on the playlist. I'm literally
going to go from your intro to the end and
then I'll decide what I liked from that standpoint, and
maybe I'll go back and forth tongs that I like.

(33:00):
But I am searching for that album that I literally
can do that with and I and for me personally,
I found albums that I can do that, yes, all
the way through Leon Thomas Thomas front to back for sure,
Kendrick Lamar G and X Yes.

Speaker 5 (33:17):
Yes, I'm I'm back back, front to back and back
to front.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yes, Like I'm literally like those out for me personally,
those are, you know, albums that I can either take
a ride to, I'm at the gym, whatever those things are.
I'm not skipping one song and it's hard to do that.
Jazmine Sullivan Hotels. Absolutely Yes, I'm sorry.

Speaker 6 (33:39):
Yes to me, that's the last one that's.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Summer over it.

Speaker 8 (33:45):
I to man like her every Victoria. I'm sorry Victoria Money,
but I do I do that exactly what you said.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
I'm and we don't have to anymore obviously, but I
love that experience.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
What's your favorite fund the back album of all time?

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Take time out of it? Favorite fund the back? Off
the Wall?

Speaker 3 (34:11):
Yeah, I mean from the back.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
That's not your own, that's not corn I'm sorry, suld
I said that before.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Damn he stole my Off the Wall.

Speaker 9 (34:18):
So if it's off the walls, off the agreeable one,
something different, it would.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Have been thriller. But the Girl's Mine, I gotta do something.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
You don't like the Girl's Mine.

Speaker 5 (34:30):
I love the girls.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, people aren't. I'm gonna go.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
I love it. I love what Paul Carty says.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
I don't believe it. I don't believe it.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go, and a go on Impact.
I'm gonna go too. I'm gonna go. Joe Toosy Diary
for Man Band and Brandy's first album, Brandy, Oh, that's.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
A good one.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Over forever, my lady. You're gonna go. You're gonna go,
You're gonna go, dive you. Maybe I have to for you, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, for me, not along with Off the Wall, but
just like Jesus.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
That's when I asked the question. I have no idea
what my answer.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Is gonna be. Uh.

Speaker 5 (35:14):
Well one, uh one is obviously it's the only It's
the only album the Prince ever mentioned in the song
where they where he mentioned the album and the singer
is precious by Shante rocking on the rocking on the box.
Uh so precious by Chante Moore. Seal second album, hm hmm,
Seal second album. Uh And because I.

Speaker 6 (35:35):
Was such a Jackson five fan, which we haven't talked about.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
The the album ABC, their second album is just start
to finish, Start to finish, my favorite album of theirs.
And I promise you if you listen to a song
called I Don't Know Why, I don't know Why I
Love You, I don't know Why I Love You, which
is the end of the first if you have their album,

(35:59):
it's the last track on the first side, and it's
Stevie Wonder wrote it. And people talk about how Michael
Jackson sounded on Who's Loving You. The vocal that this
twelve year old puts on the Stevie Wonder remake is unbelievable.
I promise you just look up the album, maybe see
by the Jackson five, I don't know why I love you,

(36:21):
And listen to a twelve year old and remind yourself
the twelve year old.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
I want to ask you what's because we have this
back and forth at times. Is Michael Jackson the greatest
kid singer of all time? Think of the rush, the rush,
the rush.

Speaker 6 (36:38):
Okay, no, and don't give me okay, kid, give me
what age?

Speaker 5 (36:42):
Give me an age range?

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Anything under eighteen.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
No, it's not kid, it's a kid. It's got to
be anything like under thirteen, anything under twelve, that's a kid.

Speaker 5 (36:55):
So Frankie Lyman's in the conversation, Michael Jackson's in the conversation,
Tevin Campbell in the conversation Wonder, there's Stevie Wonder.

Speaker 6 (37:05):
I have to now, I have to say, but.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yes, when he's singing that.

Speaker 6 (37:12):
Yes, that's true. But okay, I'm glad you.

Speaker 5 (37:16):
So listen to Stevie Wonder singing young, and then Michael
Jackson singing Love Young.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
I gotta go.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
I gotta go with Mike at young when it comes.
When it gets older, it gets closer.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
But Mike changes his voice as he gets older, just
so Steve. Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 5 (37:29):
But as a kid, I got tomorrow, That's what That's
what I'm saying, Tevin, Frankie, Michael, Who's it? Is there
a young woman in that conversation.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
The closest I would think would be Brandy.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
She was sixteen, was fIF she was fifteen, fifteen.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
She was saying, she says, she's sang them at fifteen, Yeah,
fourteen fifteen?

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Is there a young Jojoh was pretty crazy? Jojo was crazy.
Jojo was a good one.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Jo was crazy. Uh.

Speaker 5 (38:00):
I am taking Michael Jackson because no one, for forget
technical ability.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
But no one had the soul.

Speaker 5 (38:10):
I'm telling you, listen to this one song and you
will have to keep reminding yourself to the twelve year olds.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
I like the way you articulated that because me, Me
and Jay go back and forth with this a lot,
and I think as you broke it down, I think
technically Devin was the best. But when you add that
soul element to it, I believed Michael. It's like when
they say, oh, that kid has an old soul. Yes,

(38:37):
Michael Jackson had an old soul. From the beginning.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
It did not sound like a key No, he had
a high voice, but it's like.

Speaker 5 (38:45):
Yeah, that's like a little grown he had the fazing
a little person.

Speaker 10 (38:53):
Really, he's in a movie with mar Willians smoking.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Robinson said.

Speaker 5 (39:06):
The coolest thing about I thought about Michael Jackson said
he had never met anyone who was more grown up
when he was a kid, and never met anybody who
was more of a kid when.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
He was growing grown up.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Wow, that was Michael Jackson.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Bar because that is that bounds it all us, it does.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
All right, take me from MTV TV.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
E no, before you go to BT, though, I have
a question. Yeah, did you hire Tyres for MTV?

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Hire him? No?

Speaker 5 (39:34):
No, no, no no, no, I did not.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
What did he do? I forget what he do? He was,
That's why I asked.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
That's no.

Speaker 5 (39:42):
I think he may have gotten there after you lever
I left. I feel like he was post ninety nine.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
I left. I left the April ninety nine.

Speaker 5 (39:50):
Uh okay, wait, yes, MTV is lovely and I won't
go into it, but I think this think is funny.
I can always uh and when I left MTV because
it was the.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Uh week.

Speaker 5 (40:07):
That uh the NAS hate Me Now video came out?
Video I was at MTV. That's the story that doesn't
get told right, The story that gets told is like, oh,
somebody went to the Universal Building hit Steve's out on
the head. There was another crew that came over to
MTV to see you, to see all of us.

Speaker 9 (40:29):
All of us, to see all of us because the
video got played on MTV.

Speaker 5 (40:40):
I won't I won't use any proper now that I
don't know if it ever got explained.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
So we have standards and.

Speaker 5 (40:46):
Practices that has that that that you can't say these
words in there, you can't serve this much in the video.
So videos come in, videos coming to MTV, we'd say
whether we will to play them or not, and then
to go to the standards practices. Standards and practices would say, oh,
you have to take this out. You have to take
out you have to not say that word, you can't
show that body part. It goes back to the label.

(41:07):
Label makes those edits and it comes back to MTV.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Hate me.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Now. Video comes in, goes to standards and practices, they.

Speaker 5 (41:14):
Make their edits. But an artist being on the cross
was not a standards and practices edit.

Speaker 6 (41:24):
It was not It was a required question.

Speaker 5 (41:26):
Edit from the from one of the artists on that
And so video artists didn't want they didn't want to
be on the Cross. Did not want to be on
the Cross. Video goes back to the label. Label makes
the standards and practices edits doesn't make the artists requested.
Edit gets back to MTV. Now candidly, it was MTV's

(41:47):
job to make sure that that artist requested edit was
out right, standard practices did their job, label did their job.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Everybody had their notes, everybody had their notes.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
It came back, it got missed over, it when on
the air, and all hell broke loose. It was, but
it was, it was. It was a simple mistake. Nobody's
I don't as I understand it. Nobody was trying to
pull over anything there was. You know, yes, the label
should have pulled it out because their artists requested it,
but it was really on us before it got on
the air to to make sure that got done.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
So I've never told that story. I don't think. I
don't think.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
I think I've ever told that story.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
But that was the week I left m TV. That's
that's how we got to that.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
People here, no, no, and security ain't good enough. No.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
I will say this and.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Again, there was just feel like a black operation. How
much we'll hang out with the black no.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
No, no, to that point.

Speaker 5 (42:38):
To that point, the person who was who was the
head of Running Music at that time, uh was, uh was, Uh,
there's a couple of white folks who I remember feeling like, Oh,
I'm You're lucky I'm here this week, since I'm here
to protect you and have a conversation and a language
that you really can't have you won't be able to

(42:58):
have next week. No, that's not because another my man
was there, he would have had the conversation. But you
had a senior level person having this conversation. So yeah,
so they were yeah, and then and then no bad
boy stuff got played for like four or.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Five months after that. That was the you can't because
they did. They came into the building.

Speaker 5 (43:15):
They came in into the m TV building like a
MTV building, like they came into the Universal building.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
No passes, no passing landers.

Speaker 5 (43:24):
The guy, the guy from the guy, the label executive
came through with the four big dudes.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Said I needed them to facilitate my movement. That's what
the four big dudes were doing.

Speaker 5 (43:36):
That's what the four big dudes would do. The label
executive literally said, I said what what I was like
when I talked to them off was like, why'd you
come through like this? It's not going to bode well
for you, Like I'm leaving like you ain't got me
to like I needed them to facilitate my movement. If
you see this, you know who you are?

Speaker 3 (43:57):
He did.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
I like, first, I'm rolling with that.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Mh. So now you now, now it's a great way
to go out in the door.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
It was an interesting way to go out the door.
It was an interesting Yes. So I went to b E.
T Uh as a VP of music programming.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Again. That was time when when BT played U uh,
everybody playing video.

Speaker 5 (44:31):
Everybody's playing videos and so I came away. You just
want to jump the tip thrill? Is that what you're doing?
You can always So.

Speaker 6 (44:42):
Here's the here's here's here's the thing to know.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Here's the thing to know about b Et Young cut
and we'll jump around again the cut so again.

Speaker 5 (44:55):
Because we appreciate artists and what they do and always
want artists, whether it's no awards show, where it's in videos,
want to have artists be able to present themselves the
way they'd like to present themselves. We were conundrum because
we couldn't do that during the day because the standards
of the equivalent of standards and practices at BEET wouldn't

(45:17):
allow it. And I understood it. You don't want to
have champagne being poured on.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
People, so do standards and practices go to sleep at
a certain time.

Speaker 5 (45:25):
So it's so the deal that we made was, look,
we just want to we like to play videos more
like the artists want them.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
We understand it can happen during the day.

Speaker 5 (45:37):
As a matter of fact, we can be more strict
during the day if you allow that thing at night
at two o'clock in the morning. And there was a boy,
there were people, folks bought in. So that was But
here's the thing. It was so that videos that already
existed and videos that were made would have an outlet

(45:59):
during the day and there and then at night during
bet Cut and if I'm not mistaken, Bet you and
Cut came on it two o'clock, two to four, two
to four, three to five, and we were like, if
you got your twelve year old up at midnight, then
your your problem is not bet.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
And that's tip Drill is the.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Poster child for this.

Speaker 5 (46:27):
Is that people started making videos for uncut, right, And
so I'll take the blame for not seeing that coming.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
We were really just going.

Speaker 5 (46:39):
To have artists so like, oh, you gotta cut that
out of my video. We gotta cut it out during
the day, but you get this at night, right, So
we didn't expect people to just like we ain't trying
to get daytime play. We're just getting gun cut because
we didn't realize how big uncut.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Uncut was a ratings.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
You thought you were doing some type of damage control
he's giving them. That's all that was in many answer.

Speaker 5 (47:10):
Right, Okay, a common theme throughout things like wanting artists
to present themselves the way they want to, the way
they desired, all this stuff.

Speaker 6 (47:19):
So so here's.

Speaker 5 (47:22):
What I knew uncut was a problem. I knew uncut
was a problem when Patti LaBelle comes on one oh
six and Park because she had something else she started
too or something. She comes on and and she was asked, so,
what do you what are you watching now? Like what
the things you watch on TV? Just ran in crush
and she's like, I really like on BT on cut

(47:44):
and we were like, and I forget the follow up.
The follow was like just trying to check, like like
sure she wasn't saying just to be funny.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
He said, oh no, no.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Was that video? What the thing smelled like?

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Commercial? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Yeah, yes, yes, cooking.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Turn that out.

Speaker 5 (48:13):
So it was great one of the two of the
best things that happened, as bt cut happened and bet
Uncut ended. It was because things were getting out of hand.
People were protesting in front of my boss's house. Really
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yah, yeah, oh yeah it was.
I mean just videos, videos overall were being blamed as
being the scourge of America, right they were. The videos

(48:34):
were the reason that America was going down the tubes. Yeah,
uh it was you know, you see the Lords Tucker
never that that trajectory never really ended. Uh and then
you know the videos with again Champagne on women and
everything else didn't.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Really help it.

Speaker 5 (48:48):
So, uh there were church there were church groups that
would protest outside my boss's house.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
And so are you in DC at this time?

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Were you know?

Speaker 3 (48:57):
We started?

Speaker 5 (48:57):
I started in DC in ninety nine and then I
thought it would a few years to get the thing
moved to uh New York. But thanks to uh Bob Johnson, Deverly,
Curtis Gats and we got one of six and parks
started on in in fall of two thousands, so it
was only a year. Nice nice to my house in
DC just stayed empty for I don't know, and it's
that's another story. But yeah, so that was that was

(49:20):
a real challenge for a problem challenge for a while
was UH videos and their content and how we were
being blamed. One of the most boss moves I ever saw,
who was Bob Johnson called me and said, I need
a head of every label on the on the phone
at three o'clock in the I remember it was three

(49:41):
three o'clock PM. I don't remember what day of the
week it was, but I need every label, every label head.
But like I'm like, we don't know what they're doing.
They might have means like every label head on the phone,
and so I'm dialing, We're just dialing for dollars. It's like,
please can you make sure that? And I've sent who
the label heads were at the time, like like like
like the mucketed MUCKs, you know, uh, Donnie Ironer here,

(50:05):
Doug Morris, like all the like the big dudes, and
they were there at three o'clock PM. And and and
Bob was like, we're taking all of this flack for
things that you are producing. So if you don't start
taking some of this or find a way to make
sure that we're not taking all of it, it's going

(50:26):
to be a problem. And I and I and I
appreciated that because we because BT took a lot of
flak for videos that we we edited down. We we
we we we couldn't tell people to what you're just.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Doing your best to represent the artists and their freedoms
and their artistic vision, like you were just trying your
best to support.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
That was that is indeed, that is indeed the case
as BT did long before I got there, and it's
done long since I left.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
But it's like, also, you kind of gotta help us
out when you're dating.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
You can't deliver. You can't deliver. You can't you can't deliver.

Speaker 5 (51:06):
I can't think of I don't want to call out
any video, but you can't call out the villain.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
You can't deliver the.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
Video where they're they're pouring a honey on a selection
of women and then smacking the ass and go like,
y'all plan.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
Right, yeah, yeah, Well if you if you go on YouTube,
it's a free for all now now everything, but at
no one's expense.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Right at your own expense at that point.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
But and that's the thing I just wonder, also, are
those same people picketing in front of the YouTube officers they.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Gave up the fight the fight?

Speaker 3 (51:41):
Did they give up the fight or was it that
they were holding BT to a different standard, because it
was like, it's my cousin.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
I think that's both.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
We're all black, I can go and.

Speaker 5 (51:53):
I'm always looking for the positive side of things. And
so what that meant is that they were passionate about right,
CBS doesn't have fans, right, ABC didn't have fans.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
TBS doesn't have fans. BT had fans.

Speaker 5 (52:07):
BT had folks who were always cheering for us and
wanted to hold us accountable.

Speaker 6 (52:12):
The wholding accountable didn't didn't really bother me.

Speaker 5 (52:14):
It was the level to which they went and invaded
people's private lives that was That was a real real
challenge behind that. But I always always appreciated that folks
cheered for us, folks want us to win. Folks. Bob
Johnson talks about the day that they rang the bell
at the Stock Exchange and the people who working in

(52:37):
the service jobs who were black were like crying because
they hadn't seen something like that happen before, and they
were really proud of that, of that moment, and they
were to stock Exchange and see people come by ringing
the bells for years and then, but to see a
black man do it for a media company was really
was really special. B BT is just an unbelievably special place.

(53:00):
Jumping off ground. Uh entity just awesome.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Let's talk one six and Park Man. Okay, let's let's
talk to talk man. Let's what about it? I mean,
what's so much? One O six and Park.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
The landmark, Yes, where everybody wanted to land.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
How how tricky.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Was was that for you to manage all of who
gets who gets to sit? Or okay, who gets to
just get their video played? Okay, you can perform? Maybe
you like all of these things.

Speaker 5 (53:50):
So I need to shout out a few people so
I can get into the story and not worry about
doing it now. Penny McDonald, who was simple leave my
right hand for so many years and instrumental in so
many of these things that you're going to ask about,
was Penny McDonald, Rick Grimes, Lee Harris, Melanie Massey, uh

(54:16):
and talent, Kelly g and music. And as I think
of more people, I will, I will, I will somt
them out. Stephanie Hodges insub because she was always in
sub board and I'd say, hey, can you do this,
She's like, y'all do it and then not do it
and then it would be better than the thing I
asked for. So just a really Stephie Hodges was a
great was it was. It was a great great inventive
producer as well. Now, okay, I just want to make

(54:37):
sure that people because I never because one O six
in part was completely a gang of folks who really
believed in the mission when other folks would and I
rarely say these, you got me saying a lot who
really believed that we would never ever come close to
t r L And that was the that was undoubtedly

(54:59):
the driver for the first first year and more than
the first year. But getting to their level, or getting
to their ratings level, not their creative level. But we
had a report card every day, which is ratings like
how many people watched to you, how many people watch them?
And I was maniacal about watching about seeing that how

(55:23):
that was.

Speaker 6 (55:23):
But it was just it was a it was just
flavor of love.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
The the so the one oh six in Park in
a lot of ways was built around my first Jackson
five concert July seventeenth.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Nineteen seventy one.

Speaker 5 (55:41):
The Commodore's open, fine, Commodore Commodores are open. They have
no single machine guns, not out yet. And while they're
on the audience is screaming, we want the Jackson five,
we want the Jackson five.

Speaker 6 (55:55):
While they're performed.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
So they don't know who the Commodore are. They don't
realize a lot of or Richie's gonna go to be
one of the greatest, Like they don't know what they're
seeing in the moment.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
Not that did I.

Speaker 5 (56:06):
And they go off, they go off stage, and the
lights come on, and the lights went down before the
Jackson five came on, and there was a sound that
when I talk about I can still hear in my ear.
There was a scream, there was a whale, there was
a there was an antisity, there was audio, uh audible
anticipation of that thing that was coming up next.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
And so.

Speaker 5 (56:28):
One O six in Park I always wanted to get
that sound, like that sound of teenagers, young black teenagers,
losing their mind, like for that thing.

Speaker 6 (56:38):
That's about to come out next.

Speaker 5 (56:40):
Is what one O six in Park was built for
and to do and we got we got and again lucky, lucky, lucky.
It came along the same time that Bow Wow came out, right,
and so.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
From the beginning to the end, and so.

Speaker 5 (57:00):
We had you know, there's a bunch of people who
do we had on in great talent, but bow Wow was.

Speaker 6 (57:06):
The first act that got that sound.

Speaker 5 (57:10):
That sound, yeah, that sound that I that I'd heard
twenty nine years before was was was had when bow
Wow came out. And then B two K and then
Chris Brown, then Trey Songs and the whole bunch of
like I got to hear that sound.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Talk about genuine and the ambulance.

Speaker 6 (57:29):
We ain't got to that point.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
You got.

Speaker 6 (57:35):
Genuine, genuinees wasn't anticipation.

Speaker 5 (57:38):
Genuine wasn't like genuine, and then you spring it was
it was like bow Wow and you know right right
it was. B two K was so crazy. I know
B two K was so crazy that we were trying
not to let them know when we were We would
actually trying to tape that show so it wasn't live,
so people wouldn't come up because they were live. And
once and it was the first she was there, they

(58:00):
came to one O sixth and Park. I want to
go to details because one of the park in case
you don't know, was named after the intersection where the
studios studio actually was one O six and Park in
in uh In in New York. They came up and
these these girls came up and surrounded the building and
I mean beatles like like like coming into JFK. Like

(58:24):
I'm not exaggerating and I'll just clap cap it off.
And they were like, and the police came out and
these girls like, we.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Want to get in, we gotta get in, we gotta
get in.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
You're not getting in.

Speaker 5 (58:34):
And I saw a fourteen year old girl get thrown
into a back of the police cruiser. Now I know
things have changed, but I like she deserved to be
in the back of the police cruiser.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Like she deserved that.

Speaker 6 (58:46):
She deserved, she earned it.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
She earned the back of that cruise with her behavior.

Speaker 5 (58:54):
Now we made sure that she got out, it was right,
but I was like, we gotta give.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Her a minute put her in.

Speaker 5 (59:00):
That That was the that was the activity, that was
the energy there was around around Bet and it was
it was just it's just the best thing. We talked
about the business of political side of the business, which
I don't want to spend that much time on tell
you the shoes, but I will say days of bad
meetings or board presentations or something I freaking loved at

(59:22):
six o'clock.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
I could go to the studio.

Speaker 5 (59:24):
I could go to the studio and just make the connection,
make the connection with the audience, like they were the
livest audience there was. There was hardly ever like they
really like. I didn't realize we were. I didn't realize
the first that there was for that type of entertainment.
I didn't really realize like t r O was their

(59:46):
default because there was nothing else like One of Six
and Park live. Like there was a lot of stuff.
BT had great music shows before and video soul, but
it wasn't live. It wasn't with an audience. It wasn't
You couldn't see your culture with you. And so again
we we we got, we got lucky in One of
Six in Park.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Uh. It lasted fourteen years, fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Years, wow, fourteen.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
I want to say, the part was great.

Speaker 5 (01:00:12):
It was great, And nothing makes me happier than hearing
people talk about how One of Six in Park was
was an absolute part of their childhood, right, and it
they feel about One of six Park like I do
about Soul Train h m hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Right, and to and to be.

Speaker 5 (01:00:31):
Part of that, to be part of that absolute like that,
to have entertained it's just it's it's it's it's the
greatest thing in the world. I was on one of
six and few times we were I wanted to me
to tell it we were somewhere. We were somewhere, and

(01:00:53):
they because my wife is fantastic. My wife is just
the best at what she does and is amazing. And
its crowds wherever she goes, and someone asks like like, like,
I mean, you do you feel bad? How do you
feel that your wife is so like she's so popular,
and like you just in the background, I'm like, I
feel great. Number one, She's the greatest in the world.

(01:01:13):
I love I love supporting her. Number two.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
That was kind of part of one O six in Park.

Speaker 5 (01:01:17):
So I'm good Bet Awards one of six in part
like I'm like, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Like my goal.

Speaker 5 (01:01:27):
Literally I got to be around music and entertain people
and make people smile, like that's the thing. And without
any musical talent, like that's the thing. I just got
to I got to be the art I got to
be the art gallery. I got to be part of
our gallery, a curator of our gallery. Like, oh, this
is gonna be good with that. That's gonna work. There,
that's gonna work. Oh, they got a genuine, genuine with

(01:01:48):
the ambulance.

Speaker 6 (01:01:49):
That's gonna be a lot of fun. That'll that'll work.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
It is.

Speaker 5 (01:01:53):
It is a great performance, genuine and genuine coming out
of the stretch.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Is just that bad acting. They said, something happened to j.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
He's not going to make it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
He's not going.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
Yeah, yeah, great that you said though awards. Yes, sir,
h yeah, there was another amazing thing. Yes, that you
were a part of curating this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I want to say this before you before you say
what you're going to say. You know, I want to
say this, and I don't want to ruffle any feathers.
I don't want to do any feather Yeah, there ruffling.
I just you know what, Let me frame it like this.
Let me say like, by the.

Speaker 5 (01:02:44):
Way, feathers, feathers in a cap when there's a cap
means you did something really good. I learned that after
the Kendrick Lamar uh destected Kendrick Lamar super feather his cap,
so ruffling feathers is perfectly fine, right now, Okay, okay, okay,
I just want to make that I'm gonna frame it
this way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Things changed after Stephen Hill. Things changed, they were different,
and I remember the times of Stephen Hill, and those

(01:03:26):
were some great fucking times.

Speaker 5 (01:03:31):
That's all I'm gonna say. All right, that's a great statement.
Glad there was no question to it. I will say this.
I think it goes back to the thing that we
talked about before in terms of artist preparation, artist development,
and artist preparation. I think there is some the artists

(01:03:55):
of now performed differently and need different things on stage
than the artists earlier, right.

Speaker 6 (01:04:07):
And so I think that may be some of the
thing you're you're you're noticing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
It's it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:16):
Uh yeah, yeah. I I've not missed a show. I
still go and I still stand up, and I love
every show.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
I think that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
Actually, I think this past year was one of the
best ones ever. And I and and what needs to
be pointed out in I don't think it's gets enough
notice is the BT Awards of twenty twenty COVID set
the blueprint for how every Awards show did.

Speaker 6 (01:04:40):
No one knew how.

Speaker 5 (01:04:42):
To do award shows when COVID came around, No one like,
what are we gonna do?

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
What are we gonna do?

Speaker 5 (01:04:47):
And Connie Orlando and Jesse Collins and and Dion Dion Harmon.
Uh I was supposed to say Dianicole Harmon because that's
what it uh, Dion, It's it's it's like Chuck Berry
playing the guitar like if you if you're now, and
you're like, well, that's not really, that's really there's nothing

(01:05:08):
special about that.

Speaker 6 (01:05:09):
But it was pioneering. It was like no one had
done that before.

Speaker 5 (01:05:14):
And so the BT Awards twenty twenty if you look bad,
I had at Lesha Keys out there and it was
it was the George Floyd year as well. I mean
a little baby laying down like and and was able
to keep you captured with no audience, with no audience,
and that's what happened for the next year. BT Awards
twenty twenty one was the first one to give you

(01:05:36):
the little cocktail setting, like the cock the look for
the cocktail tables and now what did what did?

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
What did?

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
What did the Grammys have this year?

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Will Grahams have this year?

Speaker 5 (01:05:46):
Cocktail, the little cocktails tables around. So I always want
to sell it because because I don't think i'd get
enough credit for being kind of the Chuck Berry, uh,
coming out of COVID when no one knew knew what
to do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
I just I don't know if the I don't And
speaking of just times changing and maybe the artists of
people in terms of how they view things, it just
feels like the reverence of a thing is just different now.
Like I remember. I remember, like when the BET Awards

(01:06:20):
was coming up, like it was a frenzy for all
you know what I mean. There wasn't gonna be anybody
missing at the BET Awards. It wasn't gonna be anybody
like the BT. No, I'm good on that when I'm
just you know, it wasn't no really sitting at home
like the top of the Top were at the BET Awards.

Speaker 5 (01:06:45):
In my time, in my yes, also in your time.
And I don't think it's uh uh, it's not a coincidence.
It's not a not a coincidence. What I'm I forget
what to say, but you'll understand.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (01:06:58):
BT was also involved daily in how much you got exposure,
right right, those those those things are connected. I remember
making can't I remember making some deals like we really
would love to have you at the show, Okay, video

(01:07:19):
play for this artist, because we're building this show.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
These are the things we're gonna do.

Speaker 6 (01:07:24):
And I think that's it's it, that's that's I'll use
the word leverage.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
There was leverage. There was there was a there was
a negotiation.

Speaker 5 (01:07:31):
It was a great given, there was a great given,
there was a great give and take. And and I
think it's still true that and they know we want
you to look good, like they know everybody. We're we're
into making this and and it's the thing, it's it's
the thing that continues with the BET Awards.

Speaker 6 (01:07:46):
You want to make things look as best as they
possibly can.

Speaker 5 (01:07:50):
I think the Hip Hop Awards gets overlooked is because
the idea was make was to make hip hop shine,
make something it's grimy shine as well and look looks spectacular.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
Do you as you say that?

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
I love that you said that, because that makes a
whole lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Do you do you feel like as we have our.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
YouTube and our Instagram and all these things that now
fuel our content, do you feel like we are still
missing that the one thing, that one show, that one
that one O six in Park that you know, kind
of that shaped the the childhoods, that shaped the careers

(01:08:41):
and shaped and brought everybody together in this one place.

Speaker 5 (01:08:46):
So I miss it. But again, once again I must
remind you, I'm older. I respect that there's a generation
whose discovery of music is very different than what I
or we did, right. We enjoyed having curated music. We
enjoyed listening to the radio and hearing what the new
thing was. We enjoyed watching soul training and seeing with

(01:09:06):
the new dances. We enjoyed watching one O six in
Park and then going to school and sharing that thing.
I think the DSPs, Spotify, Apple Music Title, all the
rest of them, and YouTube made it so. Folks don't
want to be curated to thet. They want to be
able to make the discover themselves and go, hey this

(01:09:30):
is what I discovered.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Do you like it too?

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
And then things got shared? Right.

Speaker 5 (01:09:34):
I think the Internet and that approach is a way
that this generation enjoys it. Where we enjoyed, We loved
having that central core thing. We loved being able to
talk about that performance. I think award ward shows still
do that. I love the chatter that existed around the

(01:10:00):
the super Bowl halftime show super Bowl Halftime show this year,
I loved all of the conversation around it. I got
a shout out once again produced by Jesse Andon.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Yes, because.

Speaker 5 (01:10:16):
It I still like things that unite folks and the
thing about that unites them and then people don't go
and have their own opinions and everybody's got their own
TikTok video. But in terms of discovery of music and
new music, folks like it's it's hard written. Terrestial radio
is still around, but it's but it's more it's more
of a I want to discover it. I want to

(01:10:37):
I'm gonna go through things myself.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
But don't you think we deserve alternatives, right because we
still have Jimmy Kimmel, Yes, we still have Foulon, but
we have nothing for the black community or for urban music,
and we you know, it's you got to roll the
dice to see who's who's going to get on one
of those shows, right, So, but before we've we've had

(01:11:03):
so to you know, like, I completely understand and respect
what you're saying. I just think that if those shows
can still exist, why can't ours, Why can't I our
senior hall still exists? Why can a one O six
in park still exists? Are as ol trained or yes?
Which the times are changing, so yes, the newer versions
of them, right, it's coming along. But Johnny Carson, Jimmy Fallon,

(01:11:28):
now it's just you know what I mean, it's and
those shows haven't changed much.

Speaker 5 (01:11:32):
But if they're not music based, right, there's a music
performance on it. I think that, And that's.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
That's what I'm saying, Like I'm saying something that just
like we don't have anything where in the space honestly
that an urban artist, a new R and B artist, a.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
New new actor act.

Speaker 5 (01:11:48):
So I'm I'm going to I'm going to argue for
Questlove because because that show has had a few artists
that I was surprised, and I know he's kind of
pushing buttons behind trying to trying to get that done.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
I don't what is that?

Speaker 5 (01:12:04):
Oh, I'm sorry, that's a that's a Fallon show, Jimmy
Fallon tonight show the roots because.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
The roots of the roots of the band.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
No, no, no, I get it, but it's not our show.
That's it's not his show, I think because I was
about to say, what's you are you talking about? You
said it was so and I realized that they're the
band for it his show. That's the difference between having
one O six in part are having our Senior Hall,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:12:28):
I think as soon as someone finds that there's money
to be made and having a new or Senio Hall,
our Senior Hall will come back. I just don't think,
and especially in this climate right now, I don't see
someone turning a Tonight like show and let's it's really
on the Tonight show in Saturday Live right those those
feel like the only places. And if you ask record folks,

(01:12:52):
SNL moves the needle every once in a while it's
a great performance. One of those other shows will move
the needle, but it's much more for additional exposure. I
think as soon as someone believes that that our Senial
Hall or the new Arsennial Hall or I think of
this name UH is going to be better than Colbert,

(01:13:14):
then Colbert will be out. But until then, until then,
it's not going to happen. It's going back to the money.
It's the same thing that not you know, the music
people out of the out of music. You know you're
going to keep it your the money. You gotta follow
the money, got to follow the money. We've got to
figure that out for you. I look forward to it.
I look forward to being part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
I have to continue to create platform where we can
give exposure to our talent. Yes, because now you got
to be the one percent of the one percent to
get on any of their platforms. Absolutely, so we have
to continue to create our own you know what I mean.
And that's a big reason why we wanted you here too,

(01:13:54):
just just for your knowledge of it, and you know,
to give the insight to young creators that are out
there and for us, for us to think of new
things that we want to do. I mean, we talked
about other stuff, you know, before we before we start filming.
But we have to continue to create it.

Speaker 5 (01:14:10):
I think that's right and and and creators. It's it
sounds corny, but like, be true to yourself. There's there's
gonna be no better you than you. You may get
influenced by someone else, but like just keep doing it. Look,
there's no platform where you can curate like that, but
my goodness, there I mean, there's so many artists who've

(01:14:31):
made it big and never been on one of those
platforms or never had a platform move for them and
can sell out. I mean, you know, like right now,
I'm thinking of a Sabrina Claudia right who's never really
had a huge hit record, but like has a rabid
fan base who will come out and she's curated it
through the internet in ways that I don't. I don't

(01:14:52):
understand how to use TikTok to make a record move.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:14:54):
It's it's yeah, this is it's a it's a new
thing that you know. It's like my grandmother trying to
ruse the remote, right, It's it's a it's a different era.
But I do love that people can use YouTube and
like keep putting things on YouTube, keep putting things up
on TikTok, keep trying to get it out there. I

(01:15:16):
think the the turn is when one of these labels
take interest in you and you start you start popping,
concentrate less on the popping and more. And it's so
hard for a young person to do, especially when the
money starts coming in. But how what what is what

(01:15:36):
is three years down the line? Look like, who can
I get with? Who can teach me artists?

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Development? Who can I like what.

Speaker 5 (01:15:45):
And it's so hard when you when you're young and
you have nothing, you put this thing out and people like.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
It to look that far.

Speaker 6 (01:15:53):
You've got to have great counsel for that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
And so.

Speaker 5 (01:15:57):
Yeah, yeah, I to get frustrated. I see these these
TikTok artists who come along and they may have something
really catchy and then I'm like, Okay, well let me
go watch them perform live, and I'm like, and they're

(01:16:18):
not even working on it. They just realize they're just
they're there. They realize that they walk back and forth
and uh say the lyrics, they can get the check
and go home, and they believe it can that's going
to that's going to keep them going today.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
Don't get booked anymore.

Speaker 6 (01:16:35):
I mean and and live music is doing better than
it ever has before.

Speaker 5 (01:16:39):
Right, I think there's a there's a false sense of
security and the longevity when you know TikTok rapper can
go out and get there and uh and and get
a checked for a while and and not look at
the future. I said this once before. You do have
the eye of the tiger or eye of the TikTok
like you like, like, right, I have the tiger means

(01:16:59):
you're gonna get ready for three years from now. You're
preparing yourself, you're getting your crew together, you're getting your development.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Because I have TikTok is like.

Speaker 5 (01:17:05):
I'm gonna ride this until my label drops.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Me, losing in mind when TikTok was down for every
many hours, you.

Speaker 6 (01:17:15):
Know, absolutely all right, test me out, test.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Me out your top five R and B singers.

Speaker 5 (01:17:22):
M So, does everybody have a disclaimer before they do
their top five or like everyone has a disclaimer like like, oh, it's.

Speaker 6 (01:17:32):
Hard to get five, hard to get five.

Speaker 5 (01:17:37):
These are five of my top and I'm gonna try
to avoid some of the ones that you that you
may always get. Uh, that's not true. That's not true,
and it has to be five. I thought I was
much more prepared for this than I was. I'm gonna
I'm gonna start with I'm gonna start with the obvious.

(01:17:59):
I sent out a tweet in the year twenty eleven
and it was random. It wasn't connected to anything else
that I had sent out, and I just said something like,
my goodness, the most underrated singer in all of music

(01:18:21):
is Chantey Moore. I said that out too, that randomly
randomly in twenty eleven. Now what I imagine I di
I used. I was probably listening to something and listening
to her sing, and it made me write that the thing.
And I know that I'm married to her, but I
need you to understand that I can articulate.

Speaker 6 (01:18:44):
There's no one who makes me believe.

Speaker 5 (01:18:49):
Everything she's singing like Shante does, like when she's feeling pain.
I feel that when she's back in her earlier days
when she was trying to be romantic with somebody else,
like I like, I feel that, like I feel that
in the way she can manipulate her voice. And then

(01:19:10):
if you've ever seen her do it's all right live
like just just just it. It's Google Soul Train Awards
twenty twenty two. And what what she does with that?
We used to call it whistle tone. And then we
spend we spend some time in Yeah, I say, yes, Oh,
we had a conversation that we sure did.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
We should strangers.

Speaker 5 (01:19:34):
Yeah, we would spend some time in China. Another thing
you should talk to my wife about when you have
her on the show. And we now refer to it
as the Dolphin tone. It's it's the dolphin tone. The
dolphin tone. Yes, I didn't realize yeah, yeah, and so
we call it whistle tone, but the people in China
call it a dolphin tone. And so, but that her

(01:19:57):
and her ability to really I believe the emotion. There's
no one else that does it like her.

Speaker 3 (01:20:04):
To me.

Speaker 5 (01:20:05):
There's people can belt and and and technically and fine,
but like it's it's she and Prince who I believe
what they're singing. I believe when they want to get
in bed with somebody. I believe when they're angry at somebody.
I believe when they're pleading so Chancey Moore. And it's
not just because she's my wife, it's because she's awesome

(01:20:27):
that uh, I got uput prints in there because I
think he's under He's so good at everything. He's underrated
at everything. Like he's just so good at everything. He's
an underrated guitarist.

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
Way to look at it, I feel like celebrated.

Speaker 6 (01:20:41):
But but as a whole, not as individual.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
Right, It's like we brought that up with production as
far as like when they named the greatest producers, they
never named Stevie wandar Prince. That's because they're so great
at so many things. So I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
It's like the package of them is like it is
just too much, too much.

Speaker 5 (01:20:58):
Yes, Now, now I'm I think Chris Brown is unbelievable
and so far ahead of everyone else of this generation.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Now it's tough because for him, it's.

Speaker 5 (01:21:15):
It's vocals plus the package plus what he could do
when he performs. So I take R and b artists
that that's got to be part of it, like any
anybody got to talk about has to be able to
perform except maybe one uh that I mentioned, And so
that's really a big part of it. Uh And I
love that. I Yeah, So I think I put I put,

(01:21:37):
I put Chris in there. Uh Uh. I'm just gonna
say it and it's not and I'm gonna change it
around because it's it's really Luthor Andros. But I want
to say George Michael just because I want to say
George Michael because I'm not sure how many people come

(01:21:59):
on the show and talk about how great George Michael
is amazing as a soul singer.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
He is an amazing singer. Now faith.

Speaker 5 (01:22:10):
Is what it is. There's some great work he had
on older where he's just his us technical singers would
know much butter, but his pitch and his tone is flawless.

Speaker 6 (01:22:22):
I base a lot of this on I was fortunate.

Speaker 5 (01:22:25):
Enough to go to his MTV Unplugged in London in
nineteen ninety seven. It was amazing. I'm gonna send you
because they only use like five songs in the show,
and he did like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
Fifteen or sixteen.

Speaker 5 (01:22:44):
And his voice was pure the entire time. When it
started to give out, literally two hours and fifteen minutes in,
he called it. He said, my voice is about to
give up out of I've got to go. But in
terms of again a feel of of just singing vocal
ability live George Michael.

Speaker 6 (01:23:06):
He's not gonna be in my top five tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (01:23:08):
I'm doing this mostly but I want to point him
out as someone who probably doesn't get mentioned. And the
other one is I'm gonna introduce this like this. This
Scottie Pippen one of the fifty best basketball players of
all time. Okay right, literally when they came up the
top fifty basketball players of all time, Scottie Pippen.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Was on it.

Speaker 5 (01:23:30):
He was on the Bulls. So he was on the
Bulls with Michael Jordan. So Scottie Pippen being one of
the top fifty. Of all, every other person in the
top fifty was the alpha male on their time, everyone
except Scottie Pippen. In every other group, Scottie Pippen would
have been y'all for male r. But he was on

(01:23:54):
a team and he was behind MJ. And this is
how I'm introducing to you Jermaine Jackson. Mmm, Jermae, I'm
introducing you to Jermaine Jackson. Castles of sand, My touch
of Madness. You like me, don't you? His Marvin Gay

(01:24:15):
influenced vocals, along with his bass playing at the age
of sixteen in Arenas.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Goes under noticed.

Speaker 5 (01:24:29):
Going back to Indiana, find on YouTube or on record
and listen to the Base playing on the first they
have a live it's a stand feeling all right on
one of the one of the first three cuts. Just
listen to him take off on the base and realize

(01:24:50):
he is a sixteen year old who has no studio trickery,
who's making the base do that live and in person
while singing singing nobody else in the We don't recounting
Tito as a vocalist, right, we not? We just we
were good. We love the Tito. We wouldn't have the
Jackson five without Tito. But my point is Jermaine had

(01:25:13):
to sing and play at the same time and nail
them both as a sixteen year old, and his voice
only got better as he got older. On any other
team except the Jackson five, he is the alpha male.
He is behind him.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
J got you. I like the way you frame that.
I love it right there.

Speaker 3 (01:25:31):
That was because I got a couple of guys like that.
Yeah right, you got Jojo from jo Tosy. Yeah, he
got from voice to man as yes you giving me
a yes yes.

Speaker 5 (01:25:46):
And I have to say I because I have to
say out loud Luther Vanros uh uh r, Kelly, Earth
Wind and Fire. Uh uh wait wait wait wait uh.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
You can't with the top of the top Okay you yeah, talking.

Speaker 5 (01:25:58):
About I want, I want, I want, say George Michael
and because you want people to think about like voices
that that don't usually get mentioned up there, and they
may not be your top five, but like they they
brought it in a way that yeah, that that that
that I just want I want to shout out.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
I want to shout out, want to.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
S Stephen Hill your top five R and B songs.

Speaker 5 (01:26:25):
Adore by Prince.

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
Why not just kick it off that song?

Speaker 6 (01:26:31):
That song song turns uh what he what do you?

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
What? Do you?

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
He six?

Speaker 6 (01:26:37):
This year thirty six, thirty six. This year it turns
thirty six this year.

Speaker 5 (01:26:40):
I still hear new things in that song every time
I listen what a song it's? It's to your point
about as a producer, like there's there's things buried, and
I swear like there's a way he produced it, Like Okay,
it's time release. So you're not going to hear this

(01:27:01):
in the year nineteen eighty seven. You're not going to
hear this into the year two thousand and three. It's
not going to pop up in the groove into two
thousand and three, right, okay, okay, And then this was
not gonna pop up until twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
Seven, because you don't even know what it is until
you've evolved enough to be able to hear.

Speaker 5 (01:27:18):
I think that way we're putting it, it's a great
way of putting it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
Like some of these guys, like you're talking about Prince,
he was completely ahead of his time on everything. Everything
He set standards, yes, yes, and then a lot of
them can't be replicated.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
That's true. That's true at all at all.

Speaker 5 (01:27:39):
He couldn't even recommend it like replicated, but he tried
to with the whole nineteen ninety nine thing. He tried to.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
But for that time.

Speaker 5 (01:27:47):
Yeah, and I had to limit myself to I made
sure I limited myself to one Prince record or else.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
Just ist.

Speaker 5 (01:28:00):
Anytime, any place, m come on anytime any place is
just it feels it just it you.

Speaker 3 (01:28:11):
Start moving and not even know that.

Speaker 5 (01:28:14):
Yeah, all the way through the sound the sounds.

Speaker 3 (01:28:18):
Yes, we're still in Mina. That's what I said.

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
We still We're still in Minnesota.

Speaker 5 (01:28:23):
Yeah, okay, so and I got it. I didn't realize
had two jam and Lewis's until just now. On bended me,
ah On, bended on, bended me. I'm a sucker for
a modulation. We know this.

Speaker 6 (01:28:41):
I'm a I'm a sucker for a modulation.

Speaker 5 (01:28:44):
And I just think that that song is so it's
just so well crafted. The little vamp at the end,
the harmonies. Uh, I just love I just love love that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
It's it's verse B section hook. They're all separate parts. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 5 (01:29:09):
They're not the same. They're not the same. They are
not the same. We talked about what we talked about
one Late in my Life again as a as A
as A as a Jackson fan, and for me, Jackson
five were on the same leg is on the same
level as Michael Jackson. I loved the Jackson five. But again,

(01:29:30):
I think that was his last that was his last
soul song. That was a last one. That's last one
where you believed he wasn't in this. I mean he
was crooning at the end, like, I just love the breakdown.
It's funny. One of the shows I worked on the
Billboard Awards a while ago, celebrating the fortieth anniversary of Thriller.

(01:29:51):
We had Maxwell do it. We had Maxwell do it
and Maxwell did the whole physical, physical breakdown.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
In my life.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
Yeah, where did you were not alone? Is that not
an R and B?

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
So, I mean, like I don't, I mean it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
In the end, like he really he getting to it
at the end too.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
I'm just asking he's getting.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
It's not about it being Lady in my Life. I
get that part. But I'm saying as far as the
soul in that record for him.

Speaker 5 (01:30:20):
Yeah, like my just crying out, He's crying out, He's
crying out. The song structured the song with its imitation,
doesn't It doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
It's not the soul. That's what it is, delivery the soul.

Speaker 5 (01:30:36):
And then I feel comfortable saying this because you've you've
heard you've heard it.

Speaker 1 (01:30:40):
Know what it is, the live version of Chantey Morris.
It's all right.

Speaker 5 (01:30:45):
I have heard it a hundred times.

Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
Good about yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:30:54):
Yeah, As a side note, and when we come up
we are on the way, I was nervous and I
tell my wife I was nervous, and her pep talk
was to me. It was like, don't worry about it,
just be comfortable. You're one of the corniest guys that
we know. So that was that was That was the
pep talk. That was.

Speaker 1 (01:31:15):
The pep talk.

Speaker 5 (01:31:16):
So because because I say that, because I did that
so I could have time to get I've heard it
a hundred times and every single time, and it's not
just the dolphin tone at the end, it is it
is what that's And another thing, it's it's what that
song means and how it sounds different every time, and
how she how it's just to feel it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:31:40):
And I can find it. It is.

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
It's new.

Speaker 5 (01:31:42):
It feels new every every time. And so uh, I
like the recorded version, but it wouldn't make my top five.
Live version makes my top five live version makes my
top five.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
I love that. Yeah, that was yeah, I felt that
one's the Corneus guy. We know I love man.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
You're all right, mister, yes, sir man many wonders. Let's
make a vulturon. You're a super r and b artists.
We want to know where you're going to get the
vocal from the performance style, the styling of the artists.

Speaker 6 (01:32:33):
Oh passion, they're different people.

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
They are all different people to make one great yeah. Yeah,
So who you're going to get the vocal from? One
vocal for your super r and b artists.

Speaker 5 (01:32:47):
I am going back to my tweet of two Thy eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
I'm going with my wife, my wife, my wife. Yeah, Like,
I'm so glad that's on record.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
I'm so glad.

Speaker 5 (01:32:58):
I showed that to her early relationship, so she did
not think I was fronting.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
I was.

Speaker 5 (01:33:03):
I'm like, like, I'm going to her because I'm going
to need emotion. I'm going to want a I think
Freddie Mercury did a brilliant job on Bohemian Rhapsody of
taking us up and down and all the way through
so many I think, I think too many places. Absolutely
in one song five minutes fifty five seconds. If I'm
not mistaken, that's what that song was. I believe my

(01:33:26):
wife could do the same thing if given the task.

Speaker 2 (01:33:30):
Soote voice voice Johntey Moore performance style on stage.

Speaker 5 (01:33:41):
That one's tough. That one's tough because I love energy
and I'm taking I'm taking nineteen ninety, nineteen ninety prints,
I'm taking new I'm taking Nude Tour prints, Nude Nude Tour.
Prince was athletic, was he was? Yeah, nineteen ninety New Tour,

(01:34:01):
the long the long hair, you had, the long hair.
The tour never came to the States, but it was,
I mean he was. You can look it up, you
can say it online, you can sit it online. So
that nineteen ninety Prince performance style. And it was hard.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
It's hard.

Speaker 6 (01:34:16):
It was hard not to take Michael Jackson Victory Tour.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
It was hard.

Speaker 5 (01:34:19):
It was hard not taking that one. But overall, I
gotta take nineteen ninety.

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
Prints, okay, Chante Moore, Prince, the styling of the artists,
the drip, the presentation, kink.

Speaker 5 (01:34:39):
M h that one okay, because I am not a
man of sartorial splendor. I don't dress that good, so
I don't really it really? Is it a thing I
gotta go with? In nineteen oh, I didn't pick I
know cause I picked prin I don't feel bad nineteen

(01:35:01):
seventy one. Jackson five, Easy good, I'm good nineteen seventy one,
Jackson five, Yes, loved it, Love loved. They were the
first group who understood they didn't have to have uniforms
on to be dope. They were the first real singing
group who weren't wearing matching suits matching. They were individual
They allowed themselves to be individuals.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
Jackson five were first. I don't know that. The history
yeah yeah yeah, and the passion of the artists, the
heart of the artists who who what you mean?

Speaker 3 (01:35:50):
It mean it?

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Okay? Okay?

Speaker 5 (01:35:52):
So I since I mentioned my wife already and I
mentioned that's exactly the thing that she does, and I
mentioned that about Prince, I kind of want to I
kind of want to go with someone else and challenge
myself to go with someone else on that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:02):
Bruno Mars, Bruno Mars.

Speaker 3 (01:36:05):
I feel comfortable that, I feel good, Yeah, I feel
good with that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:08):
With that, I feel good with that. I feel I
feel great about that. Actually, I'm extremely gonne.

Speaker 5 (01:36:12):
My favorite, my favorite, my favorite former to come to
prominence in the twenty first century is Bruno.

Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
I liked him, I liked him on radio, and then
you say I became a fan of him live.

Speaker 1 (01:36:27):
That's it I mean when I say that, I mean love.

Speaker 3 (01:36:29):
I mean love.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
I'm always so. He delivers on record, for sure, no
doubt about it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
You're supposed to love the artist more after you get
to see him, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
Live, Yes, I said, Oh he's him.

Speaker 3 (01:36:40):
Yeah, he's a guy.

Speaker 5 (01:36:41):
He does that thing that I love when artists do.
They put the bangers that will never be played on radio,
but are so soulful as the very last song on
the record. You can go back, you can check the
very last song on the record. I Cat Gorilla, Uh,
the one, the one he wrote with Babyface is on

(01:37:02):
Uh is on the one, there's on twenty four Carrot
and then blast off on on on Silk Sonic.

Speaker 6 (01:37:10):
His last songs of every album are just.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
What he chooses.

Speaker 6 (01:37:14):
His last song is done on purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:37:16):
You're like, I'm gonna be black at.

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
Show.

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
You are really show you what I really did? Well,
You're you're an Almanack.

Speaker 1 (01:37:32):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:37:32):
I love this stuff. I love this stuff. I appreciate you.
I appreciate I appreciate it. I just do appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:37:39):
So we at the very very important part of the show,
and what's that? Will you tell us the story funny
or fucked up? Are funny and fucked up? The only
route to this game is you can't say no name.
I can't say any name. That's the name. You can't
say no names.

Speaker 5 (01:37:56):
I'm kind of looking for a nod baby, you're looking
for Okay, no names. The thing is no names. So
I was I'm not gonna say the name of the show.
I feel better if I do.

Speaker 1 (01:38:08):
Don't.

Speaker 5 (01:38:09):
Okay, there was a show. There was a show that
myself and and other people were working on. We were
celebrating an accomplishment. I can't use any names. It's good.
We celebrating an accomplishment of an artist. And they had
a milestone number to their album. We wanted this artist

(01:38:32):
for it, and we questioned it and we thought about
it and we're like, let's go, and so to do this.
I was not an MTV. I wasn't a bet at
the time. So I was with a company, and we
had to get a network approval. And we'll say that

(01:38:53):
there are two people who were with, two people who
worked with directly, and two people.

Speaker 3 (01:38:58):
Who were in the clouds, like the head of everything to.

Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
Be work with.

Speaker 5 (01:39:03):
So we go to two people we work with and
go like, we would like to have this this uh,
this person do this thing for this artist and they're like, uh,
the person's a male. It would be awesome if we
could find some female talent to also do this thing.

(01:39:25):
But that made sense every with everything there was in
the atmosphere, that made perfect sense. So we go to
the artists and go like, can you find female talent?
And this person found amazing female talent to be part
of this, to be part of this, and so we're excited.

(01:39:46):
Go back to our two people of the network. They're excited,
Oh this will work, this will this will absolutely work.

Speaker 6 (01:39:56):
We go back, You're in. It's going to be great.

Speaker 5 (01:40:00):
This artist gets to work right away because this artist
understands gets to work right away and is really ensconsin
and really has every brings every for rehearsals and makes
videos of the progress and sends them sends them to us,

(01:40:21):
and we're blown away. M right, and we show them
to the little and all great the uh, the two
people here didn't tell the two people here, uh what
like what the what the plan was and who who

(01:40:42):
was going to do it and was and and for
whatever reason that the two people uh in the stratosphere
uh did not like.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
What was going to go down.

Speaker 5 (01:40:56):
And after lots of back and forth, as an aside,
I admit I was used to bt I got to
be the final word, like when it came to the orgin,
I got to be the final word. So I'm I'm kind.

Speaker 3 (01:41:13):
Of used to that, thinking it is about to go
that way.

Speaker 5 (01:41:15):
Right, especially since we got network sign off. So but
one of the things I had the final word, enters
into the next conversation cause I'm like, well, there's no
way we just got to convince that's going to happen
because we get to do this, and that's not the
way it worked with the structure, And so we had
to pull the offer from that artist, and three months

(01:41:42):
later I wasn't working at that place anymore, and that
was fine. But what I've articulated to you is literally,
of all of the experiences I've ever had in my career,
the one I am most sad about the one I
am most apologetic to that artist about not everything is
not everything is perfect. But what I've always what I've

(01:42:05):
always said, no matter who you represent, you can give
me a yes, you can give me a no. Don't
give me a yes and turn it into a no. Right,
I've got to be able to depend on these read
these representatives have done the thing they're supposed.

Speaker 1 (01:42:20):
To do before we go to artists.

Speaker 5 (01:42:22):
Absolutely, And I'm like, I didn't mention any names, right,
but if you want to see a really good tribute
to an iconic artist, look that thing up on YouTube
because it is there. And an epilogue was people saying
we were trying to say no, they didn't tell us.

Speaker 3 (01:42:38):
We didn't know, and they didn't know.

Speaker 5 (01:42:40):
And finally we had to go, like, you see the
amount of work that was put into this video.

Speaker 6 (01:42:45):
Do you think that just happened after a day.

Speaker 5 (01:42:47):
Don't you think we had had the yes for a
while for this amount of work to go in it?

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
Yep?

Speaker 6 (01:42:53):
And the response was a very very eloquent, articulate.

Speaker 3 (01:43:00):
Mhm. It is my least favorite time of my entire career.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
It was. It was I think it's horrible.

Speaker 5 (01:43:06):
I By the way, I haven't seen that artist since,
and I hope I do one day because I want
to apologize.

Speaker 1 (01:43:13):
And I know because I know that artist was was.
It was a my.

Speaker 5 (01:43:16):
Favorite moment because now I got I gotta turned around,
because that was that that that got me in a
place I don't like to go. Watching Prince take over
a band. As we were celebrating Shaka Khan with Prince,
Yolanda Adams, Stevie Wonder and India are on stage. That

(01:43:38):
was a tribute and we're we're so we we booked
them all and we're out out at uh sound stage.

Speaker 1 (01:43:46):
It's called sound stage near the airport. Airport.

Speaker 5 (01:43:49):
We're out of sound stage and the music director because
it's not Prince's band, it's the band that we had.

Speaker 1 (01:43:55):
For the show. The Prince walks in and he listened.

Speaker 5 (01:44:00):
Prince has that moment when he expresses exactly how he
feels on.

Speaker 6 (01:44:04):
His face and then he fixes it right. That's you
can see that.

Speaker 5 (01:44:08):
You can see that a lot of plays, there's a
lot of memes of him.

Speaker 6 (01:44:11):
The mic is own. Yeah, you know all these so
there was that moment.

Speaker 5 (01:44:15):
You see it, and then he couldn't have been kinder
He went to the music record and said, do you
mind if I talked to the musicians about how we
approached this, and watching Prince go to every instrument and
being really like, he's freaking Prince, So every instrumentalist it
was like I'm being talked to by Prince. And Prince
could have gone anyway, but he could not have been

(01:44:37):
kinder and more gentle about what about trying this approach?

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
We try what if we try this approach? Oh? What
if this?

Speaker 5 (01:44:43):
We do this segue? And to watch him do that
was masterful and then the results you can just watch
it up. I think it was two thousand and six
Chaka Khan tribute and he's having a blast. He had
a he had a blast.

Speaker 1 (01:44:58):
On the guitar.

Speaker 5 (01:44:58):
He didn't he sang background. I think his favorite, his
favorite I was singing tell Man, tell him and tell
me So that that was that was it was. It
was anytime I got to work with Prince. It was
just it was just time I got into work with princes.

Speaker 1 (01:45:15):
Save Prince.

Speaker 5 (01:45:16):
I'm sorry I mention that, and I mentioned that stay
with friends with Prince, But you weren't there, were you?

Speaker 1 (01:45:21):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:45:22):
Save you friends?

Speaker 1 (01:45:25):
Oh time to go.

Speaker 6 (01:45:28):
I've taken up to I've taken up far too much
of your time. What he used to make fun of
me because I like, like I would.

Speaker 5 (01:45:34):
I was the guys, you know, I'm at the content,
I'm at the guy in the concert and I'm screaming
on the lungs out I'm dancing, and I don't care
if I'm an executive like that.

Speaker 6 (01:45:42):
I feel comfortable saying.

Speaker 5 (01:45:45):
He's an executive you've ever experienced who acts at a concert
like I do?

Speaker 1 (01:45:49):
I feel comfortable.

Speaker 3 (01:45:50):
I feel comfortable saying.

Speaker 5 (01:45:52):
And so I would do it at a Prince concert
and I and I loved seeing Prince, and so it
was this kind of way of making fun of me.
He'd bring me up when he brought people on stays
to dance, bring me on stage to dance. But this
one time, Uh, he had one of those parties in
his house, in his living room, and the band's playing
here and they're here, and uh, I forget the woman
who was the singer at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:46:14):
No, I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:46:14):
I don't forget uh Tamar Tamar.

Speaker 3 (01:46:17):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:46:18):
And we didn't know each other. Time said who knows
who knows play that funky music? And so I put
my hand up and I come on stage. I come,
you know, it's not stage like you step over the
monitor and you're right there, and and she goes, what's
your name?

Speaker 3 (01:46:33):
I said, my name is Stephen Hill.

Speaker 5 (01:46:34):
And so Prince is on his on on stage stage right,
just playing guitar like do love, and Stephen Hill was like,
Stephen Hill, Oh, this is gonna be fun, and so
they kick into it. I sing the first verse of

(01:46:54):
I'll play that funky music. It was like playing in
the rock and roll band, no problems rolling down in
the I stay and so I do.

Speaker 1 (01:47:01):
I do it. I'm dancing and singing and they're playing
along and I'm having a great time.

Speaker 3 (01:47:05):
And I'm like, okay, I think this one vodka making
me sound good.

Speaker 11 (01:47:10):
Playing that music, white boy playing me And so you
played it funk music till you die, till you die,
And something made me turn to my right and so go, Prince,
why don't you playing one of those funk guitar solos
for me right now?

Speaker 6 (01:47:24):
She looks at me, stumps.

Speaker 7 (01:47:28):
The pedal on and gives one of those of like
and then and then rips off and goes and goes bananas,
and I walk.

Speaker 1 (01:47:39):
Off the stage.

Speaker 3 (01:47:40):
So I'm not going to your band with you.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
I'm like, this is fucking great, bro.

Speaker 5 (01:47:52):
I walk I walked off the stage because it's never
going to get better than that.

Speaker 3 (01:47:56):
Never. And then it got better than that. That was
your bit though, and then but then it got better than.

Speaker 5 (01:48:04):
That because he had After that he finished performing, I
go sit on side, and I'm sitting on side with
like all of my peers at BT at the time,
and most of them were out there because they didn't
really care about the music. There was only a couple
of in there. They didn't really see it. And I
was telling you about it, and like someone are like, yeah, whatever.
Prince walks out, walks by and said, get you gear.

(01:48:25):
You gotta be in the tour bus pretty soon. Keeps walking.

Speaker 3 (01:48:32):
Is great.

Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
One more story, enough, cook.

Speaker 3 (01:48:38):
More sorry, one more.

Speaker 1 (01:48:41):
Story and now I promise you'll stop it. I'll stop
at this good story. Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:48:44):
He was doing twenty one nights in London. I'll make it, really,
I'm making I'm gonna get quick. I'm gonna and I'm
going to leave. I'm gonna leave the Amy Whitehouse and
fade done away part out of.

Speaker 3 (01:48:53):
It because it'll take too long.

Speaker 1 (01:48:55):
Uh. He had a song came out.

Speaker 5 (01:48:58):
I think it was he had some video that had
a friend that had a Spanish title, Uh, Corazon meet Corason.
I think it was called video We wanted me to
He wanted me to see it. I was there with
my with my boy Ashley, and so there's that, there's
that the big room where everybody else, and then there's
like his his room where he is. And we go
back to his room and there's a keyboard and there's

(01:49:18):
a monitor, and there's a computer where he was on
Prince dot org. I remember that very well. He was
on Prince dot org.

Speaker 1 (01:49:25):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:49:25):
And then he played he played, Uh, he played the video.
He's a great video. And in the other monitor, he's
looking at while I'm looking at the video, he's looking
at a he's looking at his show from that night.
He's he's because you know, again, artist development, you stay,
you stay on it like he's Prince and he's still
watching it to find a way to get better in

(01:49:48):
I forget the year now two thousand and call it
nine ten. I don't I can't remember whatever that twenty
one days and so and so uh finished look oh
love the video, and we were all kind of looking
at the at the at the screen for that, and
there was the point where he did a mixture of
Freak Out the Freak and Sexy Dancer. We mashed them together,

(01:50:12):
and uh, my friend was like, oh, I really loved
I really loved the way he did Uh he did
Sexy Dance. Wait, Sexy Dancer in the Freak And then
either I or he said like, but I really what
I really missed was like, I really always loved the
piano solo in Sexy Dancer. And he goes, you mean
this and plays little solo on the keyboard and just

(01:50:37):
turns back to the screen.

Speaker 1 (01:50:40):
That was Prince.

Speaker 5 (01:50:41):
No, I don't know. It's only one and we're both
and we to this day we look at each other
like we're both glad the other.

Speaker 1 (01:50:49):
One was there so we can.

Speaker 3 (01:50:55):
Here like that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:56):
Oh you mean like this anyhow? Wow?

Speaker 2 (01:51:00):
Anyhow, Bro's it feels like there's no place you haven't been.

Speaker 5 (01:51:08):
I am Forrest Gump. I am, I am. There's a
way to say black Forest Gump. I'm figuring that out
Forrest Gump. But yeah, and the luckiest and the luckiest
guy in the world. I love music and I can't
perform it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:21):
But I feel like you've been in all of but
you're so deserving of it because you're appreciative of.

Speaker 5 (01:51:31):
Great yes and respectful, constantly, constantly thank you. I love
that that is. I love that you recognize that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:39):
Yeah. Yeah, I just I just I so.

Speaker 5 (01:51:44):
Respect talent and talent. I think that that hones their
craft and really keeps moving it forward is everything.

Speaker 3 (01:51:52):
And we'll tell you why you're here. You're a reason
why we do our show. What do you mean Like
you are somebody that we would have pitched this show to,
you know, I'm saying. So we thought about like doing
something like this is like you know, you're you're a
thought of like oh no, like with Steven Hill with.

Speaker 1 (01:52:10):
This, well, how would he approach it?

Speaker 3 (01:52:14):
And now that you're here.

Speaker 5 (01:52:19):
Absolutely, but thank you man, No, thank you. I'm not
I'm not kidding. I was really nervous coming in. Uh,
but this was one of the best conversations I've had
about I love having conversations about music and and with
with musicians top five and so thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:52:38):
I think we more importantly felt like people needed to
really know what you are because people people will hear
the name, people will will have light interaction, people will
will understand your position, but not necessarily understand you.

Speaker 1 (01:52:57):
Not necessarily hear you, listen to me. I am.

Speaker 5 (01:53:00):
I am in a whole bunch of therapy, trying to
understand me.

Speaker 1 (01:53:04):
Understand me.

Speaker 2 (01:53:11):
I mean, for me, in my mind, you are the
You are the ultimate creative, and you are the ultimate
champion of creatives. And and for that again we say,
we say thank you you like like you are. You
are important, highly important.

Speaker 5 (01:53:30):
That that means a lot us to this universe, really
means a lot to me. I mean that so thoroughly
and wholeheartedly.

Speaker 2 (01:53:39):
Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Tank, and this is
the Army Money Podcast, the authority on all things R
and B and all things everywhere anywhere. Prince Friends was

(01:54:00):
in his band. That's all I'm gonna say. That is
the gentleman, steeping head of your com