May 24, 2025 • 47 mins
SEGMENT 1: Frank Gaffney is joined by Dr. Karen Siegemund Pt. 1
SEGMENT 2: Frank Gaffney is joined by Dr. Karen Siegemund Pt. 2
SEGMENT 3: Frank Gaffney is joined by Dr. Karen Siegemund Pt. 3
SEGMENT 4: Frank Gaffney is joined by Dr. Karen Siegemund Pt. 4
SEGMENT 5: Frank Gaffney is joined by Dr. Karen Siegemund Pt. 5
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Aftey. The problem
that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country
we love against all enemies foreign and domestic, to the
glory of God and his Kingdom. We're going to talk
about a variety of issues with one of our favorite guests,
doctor Karen Sigemund, But before we do, I'll give you
a little bit of background to a very important panel
(00:33):
discussion we're going to be having later.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Than the day.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
As we speak, we are at a moment in which
epic changes are taking place in the Middle East, some
of them catalyzed by enemies of our country, some of
them most recently catalyzed by President Donald J. Trump during
his recent visit to the region. We don't know exactly
(00:58):
which direction this always turmoiled region will take. Will it
be in the direction of freedom and respect for the
values we hold dear, or will it be in the
direction of greater threats than ever to this country and others,
(01:19):
notably Israel. We must get to the bottom of these
questions sooner rather than later, and take the steps that
are needed to protect our country in the event the
worst befalls us. We're going to talk with doctor Karen Sigemun,
among other things, about the work of her terrific organization,
(01:42):
the American Freedom Alliance, which is it happens, is doing
a program on this very issue of the Middle East
with yours truly and two people who really know what
they're talking about. That would be Daniel Greenfield, the new
CEO of a wonderful organization also out in Los Angeles,
(02:04):
the David Horowitz Freedom Center, and our friend and colleague
and frequent guest, doctor David Wormser of the Center for
Security Policy. We're going to talk with Karen about that
program and much much more, but before we do, let
me just give you a sense of the remarkable background
of this woman. I only recently learned that she is
(02:26):
a mensa. She is a member of that society that
our friend George Rasley is qualifying her to be one
of our duty geniuses. Alongside our friend George. She is
also a woman who distinguished herself at a very young
age as one of the country's foremost experts on anti
(02:48):
submarine warfare, of all things, presumably having something to do
with her extraordinary skill in mathematics and science. She has
gone on to a pH d in education and teaching
and now runs this terrific organization. I'm proud to be
(03:11):
on its board of advisors and also to have worked
with her on a number of programs, including a terrific
road show that we did together in the run up
to the twenty twenty four election. We'll talk much more
about that in a moment, but before we do, let
me properly welcome doctor Karen Sigemund and say thank you
(03:33):
for taking a full hour of your time to talk
with us about so many issues of importance to well
to us of course, but also I believe to our
audience as well well.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Thank you so much, Frank Is always it's terrific to
speak with you, and what a beautiful and comprehensive and
very flattering introduction, just starting at the back there.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
The World War three World War G road.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Show that we took to Swing States last year informing
people about, as you mentioned, these threats was such a
remarkable experience, and I find myself sort of longing for
the work that we were doing. And it was exactly
a year ago that we started that endeavor, not knowing
how it was going to go, but it went very
(04:19):
very well, and it was a real.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, we'll hold the thought. Karen.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I do want to come back to that, because I
think there's a lot to communicate about both the experience
of the road show itself, but also the topics that
we were highlighting with of you two trying to inform
American voters in five key swing states about what was
on the line in the selection, not for the purposes
(04:45):
of telling them how to votelind you, but to inform
them so they could vote responsibly. But let's start though,
with the program at hand.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Karen.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, As I say, we're pre recording this program, but
later in the day it airs, we will be having
a really important conversation in Los Angeles about the Middle East.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Give us your vision.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Of what that program is intended to address, and a
little bit more background on the participants, if you would.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Well, when we first started putting this together, the argument
at the time, so a few months ago, was we're
talking about the US involvement with Israel. We're helping Israel,
We're giving Israel money, weaponry, and so on. We recognized
the horrors of two years ago, coming up on two
years the assault on Israel, the utterly vile, anti humane,
(05:48):
anti human attacks that were launched against Israel, and in
the moment, we recognize we need Israel needed to do
something in retaliation, We needed to stand with them. But
then what we saw kind of shockingly was an incredible
surge of anti Semitism, anti Israeli sent anti Israel sentiment,
(06:10):
and it was like wildfire, if we can excuse the expression,
through our campuses, well fed through various agencies that have
been fomenting anti Semitism for decades, and it really came
to such a massive conflagration, and there started to be
pushed back against how obviously against our helping Israel, and
(06:33):
so we wanted to frame a conversation at that time
addressing why it is an America's national interest, national security
interest to support Israel, and you and I have spoken
on this at length. Then the pictures started shifting even
more with President Trump going to the Middle East, and
(06:55):
a lot of us have just started to feel this,
while yes it's in our national interest, that whole arena
is much more tangled and complicated, and there's a lot
of diplomatic activity going on at the same time as
more violent activity. It's getting kinetic. There's deals being made
just there's this whole, big constellation of things going on
(07:18):
that we felt this was singularly timely to do this
event because people are.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Very very confused.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Some are feeling that, oh Trump, president Trump is going,
so we have nothing to worry about. Some are feeling
President Trump is going and so we have everything to
worry about. Some are still saying we need to completely
disconnect from Israel. So there's just thousands of threads that
need to be pulled in order to make.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Some sense of it.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
And so I'm very glad we put together to this
panel all those months ago because it's increasingly not less
important than it even was at the time.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And two of the most extraordinary, thoughtful, deeply knowledgeable people
about national security were at large. I think it's fair
to say, but specifically about this region of the Middle
(08:20):
East and especially the connection to it that we have
as a nation. As I said, Daniel Greenfield of the
David Horwitz Freedom Center and David Wormser of the Center
for Security Policy, could you talk a little bit about
the program and what you envision the three.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Of us are going to be talking about.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, Well, Daniel Greenfield has long been just an exceptional
voice for pretty much everything's I've seen him talk countless times,
we hosted him a number of times, and he truly
is an expert on the region and as you note,
on our policy and personnel related to how we address
(09:05):
this national security issue for US. He is now, as
you said, the new CEO of the David Horowitz Freedom Center,
and I'm so excited to see what comes out of
the center now long just a great resource here in
Los Angeles and for the country, really the whole Freedom Center,
(09:25):
and Daniel.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Will be a true characterizing it as is true of
your organization as well, that you're operating.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Behind enemy lines.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, he talk a little bit more about that, as
well as David Warmsaw's role in this. On the other
side of the very short break, stay tuned. Karen Sigamann
(10:02):
is in the house. Praise the Lord. We are visiting
with her for this full hour. I think it will
prove to be a very informative conversation. I always learn
something when we speak and look forward to doing so,
probably in more than one area. We're speaking initially about
the Middle East, what's happening there at the moment, and
(10:25):
a very important, I think conversation that Karen is hosting
in Los Angeles on the evening of May twenty seventh, tonight,
as this program airs, as well as through the miracle videotapes,
what she will do to inform a lot more people
(10:46):
than we'll be able to join us for the program.
I'm a participant, but we were talking about the two mainstays.
Daniel Greenfield, you introduced Karen and I frankly, he is
a polymath. I never ceased to be amazed at the
depth of his understanding of multiple subjects and his ability
(11:08):
to you spoke earlier about the threads coming together. He
pulls those dots together in a way that is unlike
anybody else, with the possible exception of doctor David Warmsur.
And I want you to know that this audience, of course,
is familiar with David. We talk with him basically every week.
He is a profoundly impressive fellow with extensive understanding of it,
(11:35):
not least from his own time in government service. What
do you hope to draw out from Dr Worms in
the course of.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
This program his experience, it seems what I've been gathering
through your webinars, through your interviews with him, and through
our experience with him, also he participated in at least
one of our World War three road show events. Is
just it's a profound knowledge of what's actually happening on
(12:05):
the ground in Israel and a deep core knowledge of
all the players and activity and consequences of action that
goes on in the Middle East. So it's again we're
trying we're addressing the issues of the Middle East, absolutely,
but also we're really trying to bring it back to
(12:26):
the role that America plays, can play, should play, has played,
tease this entire thing out and examine how really the
paradigm of the entire Middle East situation is right now
under a massive transition.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
And part of.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Why we do this, obviously is to inform our audience
and as you say, through the miracle of video, broader
than our live studio audience that we wind up having
in our videos get tremendous views. We need also to
bring the knowledge that you all have and I to
a certain extent, but this panel of experts bring that
(13:09):
knowledge into the White House because there's a lot of consultation,
there's a lot of education, a lot of information that
has to come from the outside to the inside, and
in large part, I think this conversation can be useful
not only to those of us outside, but to those
decision makers on this crucial existential topic.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, you know, Karen, we both spoke about a transition.
There's no question that things are in ferment. Yes, I'm
interested in your thoughts about whether or not some of
the fundamentals are actually being altered or not. I mean,
(13:55):
for example, we're told that this guy, Mohammad al Sharah,
also known as Mohammad al Jolaniger from the time he
was an Al Qaeda and isis commander. He's now the
(14:15):
president of Syria. He's now been recognized by, among others,
President Trump. Sanctions have now been lifted on his government
and country.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And I must say I have real.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Misgivings about the idea that this guy has changed his spots,
that we're dealing with somebody who has transitioned, if you will,
to something very different from what he has been, as
opposed to simply a practitioner of as our friend John
Guandola has talked about on this program recently, deception, which
is part and parcel of, you know, the Sharia technique for.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Achieving dominance of everybody else.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
What are your thoughts on that point and throwing Cutter
perhaps as another example of are we seeing some real
changes or superficial ones?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Well, exactly right, and that at the top of my
list of things to be concerned about right now are
those two Syria with an al Qaeda leader as their
president recognized by our president.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And then we'll talk about Cotter.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Also, it's I happen to believe spots are not in
fact changed, that the names changed, that they they're masters
at shape shifting, at recrafting a narrative, at creating different
organizations that actually wind up doing exactly the same original
(15:52):
mission Takia. The very idea of takia in Islam is
to deceive in order to achieve your final goal. And
what is the final goal global Islam? So to me,
and maybe I ought not say this, but the mission
among Islamists or or Islam itself is not too dissimilar
(16:15):
from global communists or the left generally, which is, will
do whatever it takes in order to win. And the
goal is to win. It is to be global. It
is to leave no room for anybody else in anything, and.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
We will deceive.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Why do whatever possible in order to attain that, never leave,
Always keep your eye on the prize on the goal and.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
By any means necessary.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
We've seen it in the left, and I think we
see the same thing from Muslim run governments that is
the goal.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, and organizations too like the organization as you know, Karen,
we've long talked about that similarity, difference in outcomes that
they pursue, to be sure, but the similar character I
call it.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
It is just totalitarianism.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yes, different stripes, and I would throw in the globalist
as well, by the way, we'll come back to that
as you are a member of the Solvy Coalition worrying
about that particular crowd. But that red green axis is,
as you say, prepared to make common cause despite their differences,
not the least are the atheistic character of the communists
(17:36):
and the Sharia adherent character of the Islamists. Nonetheless, are
coming together for what reason to dispatch us.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
I think it's fair to say, right we are the enemy.
Freedom is the enemy. Independent thought is the enemy.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Judeo Christian values and tenets and all that's built on
it are the enemy. Western civilization is the enemy. The
family as constructed here in the West is the enemy.
Free thought, innovation, it's all the enemy, and it almost
be brought down, and we see all the myriad ways
in which they are doing so and the red green axis.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
They are completely aligned.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
In the methods, if not in the eventual outcome. But
we are beset by this war from all sides, in
the globalists as you say as well, and of course
they're all completely tangled up with the World Health Organization
being driven by a Chinese Communist party selected leader, the
(18:40):
connection between the between China and the Vatican, now that
we're exploring, it's all again a big tangle with as
their purpose taking us down, and which means that we
need to fight at every single turn, every time we
(19:01):
bump up against one of these efforts on their part
to take us down, be it the family or Judeo
Christian values, or freedom or speech, we have to fight
them whatever it's, whatever direction it comes from.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And you're not by any means suggesting that's always kinetic.
There may be times when it has to be.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
But to prevent it from.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Political warfare dimension to this that is arrayed against us
and must be fought back in kind, correct, Karen, We
have to take another break. We'll be right back with
much more with doctor Karen Sigamun of the American Freedom Alliance.
You can find it at American Freedom Alliance dot org,
and I urge you to do so consistently of your effects.
(20:01):
Welcome back, and once again welcome to Karen Sigmund. She
is with us for this full hour. I'm very pleased
to say, addressing a variety of topics we've been discussing
the Middle East and before we transition to China, which
I also want to cover with you, Karen, I thought
it might be worth just a look ahead, perhaps at
(20:22):
some of the things that might be coming out of
the President's trip to the Middle East. One thing, of course,
is we just did touch on the recognition of Syria
and the lifting of sanctions. There questions abound about what
is the likely upshot of the negotiations with Iran and
(20:46):
whether we might actually see the Israelis believe that we're
out of time and they mean to act militarily despite
those negotiations. Similarly, Gaza, what is likely to come out
of all of that. I'm interested in your thoughts that
there's a rumor as we speak that the Trump administration
(21:08):
might actually have some pronouncement on the so called two
state solution as well creating some kind of Palestinian entity
less time I checked Donald Trump head in mind, there
being a US entity in Gaza, which would be a
considerable improvement I think what's been there. But again, just
(21:29):
again give us some overall perspective from your point of
view in the run up to this event as to
how these various things are shaking out.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
There's so much at play, and like we had mentioned,
there's Syria, there's Cutter with the various deals being made.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
I don't know what to make of the plane or.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Not, but I do know that the deal with Boeing,
how do you say that that's a bad thing?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Although making, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It's all much trickier than I would have thought deal making.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
I revert back to the Cold War, and this is
an entirely novel way of approaching the enemy.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Reagan met with Gorbachev, but there was never any of
anything like this. Is commerce the way to keep things
from going kinetic. It seems to me in a sense
that to Donald Trump, a businessman, a master businessman from
New York City, that commerce that financed that economic deal
(22:38):
making may well be the tool that he sees is
the most useful in terms of keeping actual war, fighting
hot war, kinetic war at bay.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I don't know that it's necessarily been done in quite
this way. It's not a new idea. People have said
nations that do commerce with one another tend to not
fight each other, but that's been proven to not be true.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
So there's a lot of nostrums about this. I had
an interesting conversation with our friend Rod Martin, the chairman
of our Institute for the American Futures, you know, Karen,
in which he was propounding this as kind of a
Trump doctrine. Yeah, I felt constrained to point out to
(23:24):
him that, well, this is kind of the theory that
we were operating under with respect to the Chinese Communist Party. Yes,
you know, if we just did enough business with them,
if we entangled them enough in our financial and commercial affairs,
that not only would there be a war, but they
would become more like us. And as we will talk
(23:45):
about more when we come to China here in a moment,
ain't necessarily so. And I'm concerned that if you don't
actually have changes on the ground in terms of not
just physical changes, I'm talking about you know, the the
metaphysical or the ideological changes at least, that you may
well simply be making an enemy more powerful and more dangerous,
(24:10):
as we've seen with.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Chum Well exactly, and and as as we were saying before,
also with regard to Syria, and with regard to dealing
with Muslim Islamist nations, generally, they they keep the end
goal the same and will shape shift order in order
(24:33):
to accomplish it, this kind of commerce, economic warfare, without
recognizing the very real existential fact that to them, they're
just they're they're benefiting while they're they're waiting us out,
(24:54):
or bleeding us dry, or benefiting.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
From us, all kinds of.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Right that don't benefit us, and that make our enemy stronger.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And that's a real concern.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
And and I'm not entirely sure that the realities of
all of this are really taken on board by the
people who need to have it taken on board. The
friendship with Cotter, the friendship with Syria, an Iran deal, now,
it all it has me all very very anxious because
(25:32):
they they are all of a piece, they are all
part of the same enemy anti West entity, and we're
playing appeasement games with them in a in a way
that that doesn't that doesn't usually bode well. On the
(25:53):
other hand, if President President Trump has made all kinds
of miracles occur through his machinations as long as he's
we've always said he plays seventeen dimensional chess or whatever.
If that is in fact the case, and if he
has in the back of his mind a goal that
he is aiming for, recognizing that they continue to have
(26:14):
us as the enemy, I'd be more comfortable.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
He needs to be very.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Excellent question, and we will be, I'm sure, exploring that
in detail. And people who are not going to be
able to with us be with us on the twenty
seventh in Los Angeles will be able to see the
video shortly thereafter. And where will they find that current?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Absolutely on our rumble channel American Freedom Alliances Rumble channel
YouTube channel we're on x increasingly now, and of course
our website Americanfreedom Alliance dot org.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Okay, we look forward to putting this together and rolling
it out and sharing it as widely as we can.
Let me pivot to another We touched on it a
moment ago China. I'm mindful that as an educator, you
have I think a very important insight into the techniques
(27:11):
that have been used well, frankly now increasingly on our
kids through things like TikTok for both the red purposes, China's,
especially in the Greens, the Islamists, the various stripes to
shape their attitudes towards some of the challenges that you've
(27:33):
just laid out, Attitudes towards Israel very markedly, but also
perhaps towards Taiwan, towards the whole idea that we may
well find ourselves having to engage militarily to defend things
of vital interest to us in one part of the
world or another. Could you just explore with us what
(27:57):
you're seeing in terms of young people, many of whom
are very profoundly influenced by, among others, Tucker Carlson in
their thinking about the world we're in and the kinds
of challenges that we're facing.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Well, totalitarians have always known that the way to affect
and take down a nation is through its children. Lenin
knew it, Hitler knew it, Stalin knew it. Every dictator
has always known it. And what we're seeing now is
the consequences of a very concerted effort to impact our
(28:33):
children so let's put Tucker aside just for a second
and TikTok, but.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Just for a second.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Schools are not teaching children the realities of the world
in which they live. That means they're not teaching about
Israel and its birth and why and who they are.
They're not teaching about China and the unbelievably the human
rights violations at every turn that they perpetrate, not to
(29:04):
mention how their anti environment. If you're going to go
all environmentalists, you cannot leave out China. China is painted
as this magnificent, wholesome, delightful country that had some trouble
a few decades ago, but that now is just good
and maybe different, but still very good. So you've got
these influences. You've got the billions of dollars put in
(29:25):
by Cotter perpetuating these lies. You've got the billions of
dollars put in by China, the Chinese Communist Party, perpetuating
these lies. So kids are raised and educated with these
notions that are completely contrary to reality. At the same
time as they are told that the one great scourge
(29:46):
of the planet is the one that they live in
the United States of America. So you're teaching that what's
bad is good, what's good is bad. All this money
is poured into it. You're not allowing them to think,
which is where TikTok comes in. The quick, the indoctrination,
the propagandizing, the unbelievably short attention span that is involved.
(30:10):
Our kids' brains are being completely Everything that goes in
is completely inverse of what it needs to be in
order for us to be a safe nation with a
national security posture that is grounded in reality, and the
psychic damage that it does to our kids is horrific.
(30:32):
So if you teach kids what's bad is good, what's
good is bad, they are much more vulnerable to the
likes of anybody, including Tucker Carls and anybody including TikTok.
But if schools, which were supposed to teach kids to think,
to know the truth, to know the canon, to know
(30:54):
the shoulders of the the with the greats on whose
shoulders we stand on what they had thought and taught,
if they are made aware of what all they are given,
they will be inoculated against all this nonsense wherever it
comes from.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Instead, they are.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Unbelievably and criminally vulnerable to what they're being told.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Karen, this is such an important point, we have to
take another break. When we come back. I want to
explore this idea that well, it'll all be okay if
Americans own TikTok, but possibly it still has the same
algorithm and the same ultimate Chinese masters.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I don't think this is going to work out.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Stay tune, we'll talk with Cat sigem at all straight out.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Welcome back to this hour long conversation with doctor Karen Sigimann,
a world class educator, a woman who has her PhD
in the subject and has been practicing it at elementary
school levels and in the course of her various degrees
at other levels as well, and has some profound insights
(32:22):
into what it is we are indoctrinating our children to believe,
or if not we, our enemies are certainly doing. Going
back to the midiest just for a second, Karen, we
were talking about Cutter. Turns out the Kataris are pouring
a fortune into influence operations on college campuses, and that
has translated into radical anti Semitic, in some cases violent
(32:46):
demonstrations against Israel and for that matter, American policy and
the TikTok feed day in and day out is subversive
in the extreme is a theory that has been sort
of in flux. I guess it's fair to say. In
(33:08):
official Washington, the Congress, on a bipartisan overwhelming bi cameral
basis said this platform must be eliminated from the Chinese
sort of puppeteers who have been running it to such
a toxic effect here in favor of an American company
(33:30):
owning it. There's talk about an immense amount of money
being amassed to purchase it, a little bit less clarity
about who might actually be providing kind of the back
end of it. From what you know and what you've seen,
how important is it that this really be deprogrammed from
(33:50):
anything having to do with the Chinese Communist Party?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Well, we need to completely decouple from the Chinese Communist
Party in every way. And why do we know this
Because they've declared war on us. They've declared unrestricted warfare
on us. Ergo, whenever they're connected with is going to
be a part of that. I don't see how there's
any way around it. They declared war, they take action
(34:15):
against us, how are any of those actions going to
be to our benefit? And of course, as we see
in every single arena they're not and again going after
the children and children's minds.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
It's such an obviously effective tactic. How do we know
this too?
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Because their TikTok in China is different from our TikTok here,
and our TikTok here our children here not entirely due
to TikTok, but in part our students are kids. When
asked what their number one aspiration to be is, they
want to be an influencer.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
And I mean, I didn't this isn't.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
My research a celebrity and an influ and in China
it's to be an astronaut, which that used to be
the case here. So we're killing actual aspirational thought in
our children while filling them with such empty vapidity. I
(35:17):
know it's redundant, but it's criminal what we are doing
to our children. We are removing the notion of challenge
from them in innovation aspiration, and we're giving them instead
the most absurd, narcissistic ways of thinking about the world
and themselves, to such an extent that they are committing
(35:38):
suicide at rates that are nothing short of tragic. And
you bring in fentanyl, another Chinese import, if it comes
from China. We need to be extremely wary and cut
it off.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Karen.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
One of the other things that you have done with
great effect at the American Freedom Alliance, and you've sort
of touched on aspects of it here, is assessing the
impact of the so called culture wars on men, on
women and children's I believe could you just give us
(36:17):
a short introduction to the kind of work that the
American Freedom Alliance has been doing, and again, they can
find out much more about it American Freedom Alliance DOG.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
But how does the culture and.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
What's happening to it bear on these national security considerations
among other things.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Well, there is an adage that says politics is downstream
from culture, and I've long believed that the culture, being
what it is, is what creates politics, the particular flavor
of politics at the time. But I think what the
left has done so brilliantly with its long march, our
(36:56):
current Democrat institutions and tactics have really muddied those waters
to such a degree that I don't know that you
can particularly separate them. It's it's not a it looks
like a cultural thing to have men in women's bathrooms,
but the fact of the matter is it's a political
move to say that men can become women, women can
(37:17):
become men. Is a political move to have men and
women's sports. The war on women, which I contend is feminism.
Feminism has been a leftist Marxist tactic war on women
and incidentally on men too. Feminism is absolutely oh and
it's all about undermining the family. The war on men,
(37:39):
the war on fathers, on warriors, on boys, being told
that their their inherent maleness, their masculinity, is a toxic
trait women, the war on women, war on children, that
that somehow there's a possibility of worn in the wrong body,
and of teachers being the arbiters of who decides whether
(38:02):
a child is a boy or a girl and whether
or not it's worth concealing from the parents. So that
the interference by the state, by the nation, by the government,
the interference of the government in the family structure, taking
the position in loco parentis and keeping parents out. That
(38:23):
is a massive war again on Western civilization, on Judeo
Christian values. And as you note, on the family and
the family is the number one element that helps support
everything that we believe in.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
And how do you take it down? You go after
the family.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
You do.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Indeed, in loco parentis, of course, is of fancy Latin
phrase for.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
In places effect in place of.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Parents of the parent.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
And we've done that so much in our government schools,
notably with you've been a teacher, you know firsthand the
influence they can have. And you've seen now increasingly these
stories about really radical leftist teachers in government schools, public
schools who are radicalizing these kids, encouraging them to have
(39:14):
confusion about their genders, and so much else, and and
and if your purpose is to take down the country,
I think this is the connective tissue. All of these
things very much have that in mind, as good cultural
Marxists understand all too well. Karen, our final break, we're
(39:34):
going to come right back and we're going to talk about,
among other things, the war on religion as well with
Karen sigmon Right after this, we're back for this final
(40:03):
installment of our hour long conversation with Karen Sigamund. And
it always flies by when you are having fun, and
we always do have fun with Karen, so good to
have her with us. Thank you again for giving us
generously of your time. Karen, I did want to turn
to one other focus of the cultural Marxist onslaught. Going
(40:27):
back to Marx himself, religion was something that had to
be crushed by, you know, the proletariat or its leaders.
And what we've seen, I think there's no getting around it.
Of late, especially is a spiritual warfare that is being
(40:52):
waged relentlessly against yes, families, and against men and women
and children and all that, but against God not least.
Is your take on all of that, if you want.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
It's absolutely it's absolutely true. And again every dictator knows,
every totalitarian knows, every tyrant knows. You have to remove
God from people's worlds, their lives, their worldview. People cannot
think of anything bigger than themselves. That's not the state.
(41:30):
They can't have any solace anywhere, that's not the state.
They can't seek support from anywhere, that's not the state.
Even recognizing that humans have a desperate need for all
those things. They have a need for solace, They have
a need to be part of something bigger. They have
(41:52):
a need to sense that they're part of something bigger
than the mundane, than the world around them. We have
this need, we need to know purpose, We need to
have a feeling that this it doesn't end when we die,
that there's something bigger, grander, that we're part of, a
(42:12):
bigger hole. And dictators, tyrants all know that the only
way to win is to be that thing that provides
the answer to all of those things. But if you
give people a church or a synagogue or some vehicle
for a belief system that's other than the state, they're
(42:35):
not going to come to the state. So tyrants the
world over have always eliminated God, the church, spirituality generally,
and if you the opiate of the masses, so it's maligned.
And if you recall Obama, President Obama's video about Julia,
who was born, lived her life, died not with family,
(42:57):
not with not with not with God, not with any
of our classic institutions. But the only support she had,
this Julia lady, through this lonely life, the only way
she ever got anywhere was through the aid of the state.
That is their vision, and they can only do it
when you eliminate God. We've seen God taken from schools,
(43:21):
We're seeing God taken from churches. It is a stunning
development for churches to not be allowed to have actual
Catholic Christian Protestant dogma as their guiding light. You can't
have statuary that might have fed.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
So we've seen this especially you touched on it earlier
in communist China with the acquiescence of the Roman Catholic Church.
And one of the things that you've been very helpful
on is an effort we've been making to repeal the
secret deal between the Vatican and the Chinese Communist Party.
(44:01):
And it couldn't be more important now for all the
reasons that you've just mentioned. It is a war not
just on Catholics or even Christians or people of faith
for that matter, in China.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
It is what these.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Well anti christ figures, and I mean that literally in
the person of Hu Jingping have in mind for all
of us, I believe, Karen, I did want to close
with one particular salute to you. In the course of
our five state road show, you came up with a
wonderful metaphor for people to think about the kind of
(44:39):
environment we've just been talking about in the course of
the past hour, the challenges that are out there, and
the fact that most of us are unaware that they loom,
let alone, that they are as well portentous as they
are give us that analogy, if you would and explain.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
So, as we did the road show, and as we
did World War three, World War GI, the parallels between
that and the Cold War that I'd come up in
as had you. One of the parallels was that during
that Cold War, everyone was aware of it. But what
struck me I did come up with the metaphor we
all know the adage, if a tree falls in the
(45:24):
woods and there's nobody there to hear it, does it
still make a sound? The one that crossed my mind was,
if you're in a war but nobody will acknowledge it,
can you still lose? And it just it resonates so
deeply with me, even when I say it, and I've
heard myself say it a number of times, shocking. It's
shocking how people are so completely unaware even as we
(45:47):
have been losing this war fought on every front, the
Left's long march through the institutions. Here, we've got China,
we've got Caughder, we've got men becoming women, all of
all of these attacks and people being unaware what happened
November fifth. Thank god we did get President Trump in
the White House, which means that now we have as
(46:10):
president someone who recognizes the war and who's fighting it
on our side. But that does not at all mean
that the war is over or has been one. It's
our job to ensure that people are aware that we're
in a war, as we did on the road show,
and to show which side is the side of good,
(46:31):
which side is the side of America, a freedom of
Western civilization, and which is the side that wants to
conquer us and enslave.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Us, and as well along the road to accomplishing that.
And I don't mean this is a criticism of President Trump.
I think you're right. He does, in a very visceral way,
understand a lot of what we've just been discussing. I
would urge him, though, to be were forthright and talking
(47:02):
about these problems. And he does in certain respects, to
be sure, But particularly the job that I think is
of paramount importance. We try to do it in our
small way, connecting the dots between these various challenges, global challenges,
the totalitarians, the culture wars, the war on religion, and
(47:25):
so on, to help bring a certain coherence to it
all so that our audience and the American people more
generally can understand what we're up against and what must
be done about it. You do a fabulous job of
that at the American Freedom Alliance.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Keep it up.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
I know you will come back with us very soon anytime.
Check it out at Americanfreedom Alliance dot org. Folks, come
back to us next time. Until then, go forth and multiply.
Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Aftey. The problem
that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country
we love against all enemies foreign and domestic, to the
glory of God and his Kingdom. We're going to talk
about a variety of issues with one of our favorite guests,
doctor Karen Sigemund, But before we do, I'll give you
a little bit of background to a very important panel
(00:33):
discussion we're going to be having later.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Than the day.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
As we speak, we are at a moment in which
epic changes are taking place in the Middle East, some
of them catalyzed by enemies of our country, some of
them most recently catalyzed by President Donald J. Trump during
his recent visit to the region. We don't know exactly
(00:58):
which direction this always turmoiled region will take. Will it
be in the direction of freedom and respect for the
values we hold dear, or will it be in the
direction of greater threats than ever to this country and others,
(01:19):
notably Israel. We must get to the bottom of these
questions sooner rather than later, and take the steps that
are needed to protect our country in the event the
worst befalls us. We're going to talk with doctor Karen Sigemun,
among other things, about the work of her terrific organization,
(01:42):
the American Freedom Alliance, which is it happens, is doing
a program on this very issue of the Middle East
with yours truly and two people who really know what
they're talking about. That would be Daniel Greenfield, the new
CEO of a wonderful organization also out in Los Angeles,
(02:04):
the David Horowitz Freedom Center, and our friend and colleague
and frequent guest, doctor David Wormser of the Center for
Security Policy. We're going to talk with Karen about that
program and much much more, but before we do, let
me just give you a sense of the remarkable background
of this woman. I only recently learned that she is
(02:26):
a mensa. She is a member of that society that
our friend George Rasley is qualifying her to be one
of our duty geniuses. Alongside our friend George. She is
also a woman who distinguished herself at a very young
age as one of the country's foremost experts on anti
(02:48):
submarine warfare, of all things, presumably having something to do
with her extraordinary skill in mathematics and science. She has
gone on to a pH d in education and teaching
and now runs this terrific organization. I'm proud to be
(03:11):
on its board of advisors and also to have worked
with her on a number of programs, including a terrific
road show that we did together in the run up
to the twenty twenty four election. We'll talk much more
about that in a moment, but before we do, let
me properly welcome doctor Karen Sigemund and say thank you
(03:33):
for taking a full hour of your time to talk
with us about so many issues of importance to well
to us of course, but also I believe to our
audience as well well.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Thank you so much, Frank Is always it's terrific to
speak with you, and what a beautiful and comprehensive and
very flattering introduction, just starting at the back there.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
The World War three World War G road.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Show that we took to Swing States last year informing
people about, as you mentioned, these threats was such a
remarkable experience, and I find myself sort of longing for
the work that we were doing. And it was exactly
a year ago that we started that endeavor, not knowing
how it was going to go, but it went very
(04:19):
very well, and it was a real.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, we'll hold the thought. Karen.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I do want to come back to that, because I
think there's a lot to communicate about both the experience
of the road show itself, but also the topics that
we were highlighting with of you two trying to inform
American voters in five key swing states about what was
on the line in the selection, not for the purposes
(04:45):
of telling them how to votelind you, but to inform
them so they could vote responsibly. But let's start though,
with the program at hand.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Karen.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, As I say, we're pre recording this program, but
later in the day it airs, we will be having
a really important conversation in Los Angeles about the Middle East.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Give us your vision.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Of what that program is intended to address, and a
little bit more background on the participants, if you would.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Well, when we first started putting this together, the argument
at the time, so a few months ago, was we're
talking about the US involvement with Israel. We're helping Israel,
We're giving Israel money, weaponry, and so on. We recognized
the horrors of two years ago, coming up on two
years the assault on Israel, the utterly vile, anti humane,
(05:48):
anti human attacks that were launched against Israel, and in
the moment, we recognize we need Israel needed to do
something in retaliation, We needed to stand with them. But
then what we saw kind of shockingly was an incredible
surge of anti Semitism, anti Israeli sent anti Israel sentiment,
(06:10):
and it was like wildfire, if we can excuse the expression,
through our campuses, well fed through various agencies that have
been fomenting anti Semitism for decades, and it really came
to such a massive conflagration, and there started to be
pushed back against how obviously against our helping Israel, and
(06:33):
so we wanted to frame a conversation at that time
addressing why it is an America's national interest, national security
interest to support Israel, and you and I have spoken
on this at length. Then the pictures started shifting even
more with President Trump going to the Middle East, and
(06:55):
a lot of us have just started to feel this,
while yes it's in our national interest, that whole arena
is much more tangled and complicated, and there's a lot
of diplomatic activity going on at the same time as
more violent activity. It's getting kinetic. There's deals being made
just there's this whole, big constellation of things going on
(07:18):
that we felt this was singularly timely to do this
event because people are.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Very very confused.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Some are feeling that, oh Trump, president Trump is going,
so we have nothing to worry about. Some are feeling
President Trump is going and so we have everything to
worry about. Some are still saying we need to completely
disconnect from Israel. So there's just thousands of threads that
need to be pulled in order to make.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Some sense of it.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
And so I'm very glad we put together to this
panel all those months ago because it's increasingly not less
important than it even was at the time.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And two of the most extraordinary, thoughtful, deeply knowledgeable people
about national security were at large. I think it's fair
to say, but specifically about this region of the Middle
(08:20):
East and especially the connection to it that we have
as a nation. As I said, Daniel Greenfield of the
David Horwitz Freedom Center and David Wormser of the Center
for Security Policy, could you talk a little bit about
the program and what you envision the three.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Of us are going to be talking about.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, Well, Daniel Greenfield has long been just an exceptional
voice for pretty much everything's I've seen him talk countless times,
we hosted him a number of times, and he truly
is an expert on the region and as you note,
on our policy and personnel related to how we address
(09:05):
this national security issue for US. He is now, as
you said, the new CEO of the David Horowitz Freedom Center,
and I'm so excited to see what comes out of
the center now long just a great resource here in
Los Angeles and for the country, really the whole Freedom Center,
(09:25):
and Daniel.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Will be a true characterizing it as is true of
your organization as well, that you're operating.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Behind enemy lines.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, he talk a little bit more about that, as
well as David Warmsaw's role in this. On the other
side of the very short break, stay tuned. Karen Sigamann
(10:02):
is in the house. Praise the Lord. We are visiting
with her for this full hour. I think it will
prove to be a very informative conversation. I always learn
something when we speak and look forward to doing so,
probably in more than one area. We're speaking initially about
the Middle East, what's happening there at the moment, and
(10:25):
a very important, I think conversation that Karen is hosting
in Los Angeles on the evening of May twenty seventh, tonight,
as this program airs, as well as through the miracle videotapes,
what she will do to inform a lot more people
(10:46):
than we'll be able to join us for the program.
I'm a participant, but we were talking about the two mainstays.
Daniel Greenfield, you introduced Karen and I frankly, he is
a polymath. I never ceased to be amazed at the
depth of his understanding of multiple subjects and his ability
(11:08):
to you spoke earlier about the threads coming together. He
pulls those dots together in a way that is unlike
anybody else, with the possible exception of doctor David Warmsur.
And I want you to know that this audience, of course,
is familiar with David. We talk with him basically every week.
He is a profoundly impressive fellow with extensive understanding of it,
(11:35):
not least from his own time in government service. What
do you hope to draw out from Dr Worms in
the course of.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
This program his experience, it seems what I've been gathering
through your webinars, through your interviews with him, and through
our experience with him, also he participated in at least
one of our World War three road show events. Is
just it's a profound knowledge of what's actually happening on
(12:05):
the ground in Israel and a deep core knowledge of
all the players and activity and consequences of action that
goes on in the Middle East. So it's again we're
trying we're addressing the issues of the Middle East, absolutely,
but also we're really trying to bring it back to
(12:26):
the role that America plays, can play, should play, has played,
tease this entire thing out and examine how really the
paradigm of the entire Middle East situation is right now
under a massive transition.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
And part of.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Why we do this, obviously is to inform our audience
and as you say, through the miracle of video, broader
than our live studio audience that we wind up having
in our videos get tremendous views. We need also to
bring the knowledge that you all have and I to
a certain extent, but this panel of experts bring that
(13:09):
knowledge into the White House because there's a lot of consultation,
there's a lot of education, a lot of information that
has to come from the outside to the inside, and
in large part, I think this conversation can be useful
not only to those of us outside, but to those
decision makers on this crucial existential topic.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, you know, Karen, we both spoke about a transition.
There's no question that things are in ferment. Yes, I'm
interested in your thoughts about whether or not some of
the fundamentals are actually being altered or not. I mean,
(13:55):
for example, we're told that this guy, Mohammad al Sharah,
also known as Mohammad al Jolaniger from the time he
was an Al Qaeda and isis commander. He's now the
(14:15):
president of Syria. He's now been recognized by, among others,
President Trump. Sanctions have now been lifted on his government
and country.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And I must say I have real.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Misgivings about the idea that this guy has changed his spots,
that we're dealing with somebody who has transitioned, if you will,
to something very different from what he has been, as
opposed to simply a practitioner of as our friend John
Guandola has talked about on this program recently, deception, which
is part and parcel of, you know, the Sharia technique for.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Achieving dominance of everybody else.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
What are your thoughts on that point and throwing Cutter
perhaps as another example of are we seeing some real
changes or superficial ones?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Well, exactly right, and that at the top of my
list of things to be concerned about right now are
those two Syria with an al Qaeda leader as their
president recognized by our president.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And then we'll talk about Cotter.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Also, it's I happen to believe spots are not in
fact changed, that the names changed, that they they're masters
at shape shifting, at recrafting a narrative, at creating different
organizations that actually wind up doing exactly the same original
(15:52):
mission Takia. The very idea of takia in Islam is
to deceive in order to achieve your final goal. And
what is the final goal global Islam? So to me,
and maybe I ought not say this, but the mission
among Islamists or or Islam itself is not too dissimilar
(16:15):
from global communists or the left generally, which is, will
do whatever it takes in order to win. And the
goal is to win. It is to be global. It
is to leave no room for anybody else in anything, and.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
We will deceive.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Why do whatever possible in order to attain that, never leave,
Always keep your eye on the prize on the goal and.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
By any means necessary.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
We've seen it in the left, and I think we
see the same thing from Muslim run governments that is
the goal.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, and organizations too like the organization as you know, Karen,
we've long talked about that similarity, difference in outcomes that
they pursue, to be sure, but the similar character I
call it.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
It is just totalitarianism.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yes, different stripes, and I would throw in the globalist
as well, by the way, we'll come back to that
as you are a member of the Solvy Coalition worrying
about that particular crowd. But that red green axis is,
as you say, prepared to make common cause despite their differences,
not the least are the atheistic character of the communists
(17:36):
and the Sharia adherent character of the Islamists. Nonetheless, are
coming together for what reason to dispatch us.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
I think it's fair to say, right we are the enemy.
Freedom is the enemy. Independent thought is the enemy.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Judeo Christian values and tenets and all that's built on
it are the enemy. Western civilization is the enemy. The
family as constructed here in the West is the enemy.
Free thought, innovation, it's all the enemy, and it almost
be brought down, and we see all the myriad ways
in which they are doing so and the red green axis.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
They are completely aligned.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
In the methods, if not in the eventual outcome. But
we are beset by this war from all sides, in
the globalists as you say as well, and of course
they're all completely tangled up with the World Health Organization
being driven by a Chinese Communist party selected leader, the
(18:40):
connection between the between China and the Vatican, now that
we're exploring, it's all again a big tangle with as
their purpose taking us down, and which means that we
need to fight at every single turn, every time we
(19:01):
bump up against one of these efforts on their part
to take us down, be it the family or Judeo
Christian values, or freedom or speech, we have to fight
them whatever it's, whatever direction it comes from.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And you're not by any means suggesting that's always kinetic.
There may be times when it has to be.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
But to prevent it from.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Political warfare dimension to this that is arrayed against us
and must be fought back in kind, correct, Karen, We
have to take another break. We'll be right back with
much more with doctor Karen Sigamun of the American Freedom Alliance.
You can find it at American Freedom Alliance dot org,
and I urge you to do so consistently of your effects.
(20:01):
Welcome back, and once again welcome to Karen Sigmund. She
is with us for this full hour. I'm very pleased
to say, addressing a variety of topics we've been discussing
the Middle East and before we transition to China, which
I also want to cover with you, Karen, I thought
it might be worth just a look ahead, perhaps at
(20:22):
some of the things that might be coming out of
the President's trip to the Middle East. One thing, of course,
is we just did touch on the recognition of Syria
and the lifting of sanctions. There questions abound about what
is the likely upshot of the negotiations with Iran and
(20:46):
whether we might actually see the Israelis believe that we're
out of time and they mean to act militarily despite
those negotiations. Similarly, Gaza, what is likely to come out
of all of that. I'm interested in your thoughts that
there's a rumor as we speak that the Trump administration
(21:08):
might actually have some pronouncement on the so called two
state solution as well creating some kind of Palestinian entity
less time I checked Donald Trump head in mind, there
being a US entity in Gaza, which would be a
considerable improvement I think what's been there. But again, just
(21:29):
again give us some overall perspective from your point of
view in the run up to this event as to
how these various things are shaking out.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
There's so much at play, and like we had mentioned,
there's Syria, there's Cutter with the various deals being made.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
I don't know what to make of the plane or.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Not, but I do know that the deal with Boeing,
how do you say that that's a bad thing?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Although making, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It's all much trickier than I would have thought deal making.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
I revert back to the Cold War, and this is
an entirely novel way of approaching the enemy.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Reagan met with Gorbachev, but there was never any of
anything like this. Is commerce the way to keep things
from going kinetic. It seems to me in a sense
that to Donald Trump, a businessman, a master businessman from
New York City, that commerce that financed that economic deal
(22:38):
making may well be the tool that he sees is
the most useful in terms of keeping actual war, fighting
hot war, kinetic war at bay.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I don't know that it's necessarily been done in quite
this way. It's not a new idea. People have said
nations that do commerce with one another tend to not
fight each other, but that's been proven to not be true.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
So there's a lot of nostrums about this. I had
an interesting conversation with our friend Rod Martin, the chairman
of our Institute for the American Futures, you know, Karen,
in which he was propounding this as kind of a
Trump doctrine. Yeah, I felt constrained to point out to
(23:24):
him that, well, this is kind of the theory that
we were operating under with respect to the Chinese Communist Party. Yes,
you know, if we just did enough business with them,
if we entangled them enough in our financial and commercial affairs,
that not only would there be a war, but they
would become more like us. And as we will talk
(23:45):
about more when we come to China here in a moment,
ain't necessarily so. And I'm concerned that if you don't
actually have changes on the ground in terms of not
just physical changes, I'm talking about you know, the the
metaphysical or the ideological changes at least, that you may
well simply be making an enemy more powerful and more dangerous,
(24:10):
as we've seen with.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Chum Well exactly, and and as as we were saying before,
also with regard to Syria, and with regard to dealing
with Muslim Islamist nations, generally, they they keep the end
goal the same and will shape shift order in order
(24:33):
to accomplish it, this kind of commerce, economic warfare, without
recognizing the very real existential fact that to them, they're
just they're they're benefiting while they're they're waiting us out,
(24:54):
or bleeding us dry, or benefiting.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
From us, all kinds of.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Right that don't benefit us, and that make our enemy stronger.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And that's a real concern.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
And and I'm not entirely sure that the realities of
all of this are really taken on board by the
people who need to have it taken on board. The
friendship with Cotter, the friendship with Syria, an Iran deal, now,
it all it has me all very very anxious because
(25:32):
they they are all of a piece, they are all
part of the same enemy anti West entity, and we're
playing appeasement games with them in a in a way
that that doesn't that doesn't usually bode well. On the
(25:53):
other hand, if President President Trump has made all kinds
of miracles occur through his machinations as long as he's
we've always said he plays seventeen dimensional chess or whatever.
If that is in fact the case, and if he
has in the back of his mind a goal that
he is aiming for, recognizing that they continue to have
(26:14):
us as the enemy, I'd be more comfortable.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
He needs to be very.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Excellent question, and we will be, I'm sure, exploring that
in detail. And people who are not going to be
able to with us be with us on the twenty
seventh in Los Angeles will be able to see the
video shortly thereafter. And where will they find that current?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Absolutely on our rumble channel American Freedom Alliances Rumble channel
YouTube channel we're on x increasingly now, and of course
our website Americanfreedom Alliance dot org.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Okay, we look forward to putting this together and rolling
it out and sharing it as widely as we can.
Let me pivot to another We touched on it a
moment ago China. I'm mindful that as an educator, you
have I think a very important insight into the techniques
(27:11):
that have been used well, frankly now increasingly on our
kids through things like TikTok for both the red purposes, China's,
especially in the Greens, the Islamists, the various stripes to
shape their attitudes towards some of the challenges that you've
(27:33):
just laid out, Attitudes towards Israel very markedly, but also
perhaps towards Taiwan, towards the whole idea that we may
well find ourselves having to engage militarily to defend things
of vital interest to us in one part of the
world or another. Could you just explore with us what
(27:57):
you're seeing in terms of young people, many of whom
are very profoundly influenced by, among others, Tucker Carlson in
their thinking about the world we're in and the kinds
of challenges that we're facing.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Well, totalitarians have always known that the way to affect
and take down a nation is through its children. Lenin
knew it, Hitler knew it, Stalin knew it. Every dictator
has always known it. And what we're seeing now is
the consequences of a very concerted effort to impact our
(28:33):
children so let's put Tucker aside just for a second
and TikTok, but.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Just for a second.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Schools are not teaching children the realities of the world
in which they live. That means they're not teaching about
Israel and its birth and why and who they are.
They're not teaching about China and the unbelievably the human
rights violations at every turn that they perpetrate, not to
(29:04):
mention how their anti environment. If you're going to go
all environmentalists, you cannot leave out China. China is painted
as this magnificent, wholesome, delightful country that had some trouble
a few decades ago, but that now is just good
and maybe different, but still very good. So you've got
these influences. You've got the billions of dollars put in
(29:25):
by Cotter perpetuating these lies. You've got the billions of
dollars put in by China, the Chinese Communist Party, perpetuating
these lies. So kids are raised and educated with these
notions that are completely contrary to reality. At the same
time as they are told that the one great scourge
(29:46):
of the planet is the one that they live in
the United States of America. So you're teaching that what's
bad is good, what's good is bad. All this money
is poured into it. You're not allowing them to think,
which is where TikTok comes in. The quick, the indoctrination,
the propagandizing, the unbelievably short attention span that is involved.
(30:10):
Our kids' brains are being completely Everything that goes in
is completely inverse of what it needs to be in
order for us to be a safe nation with a
national security posture that is grounded in reality, and the
psychic damage that it does to our kids is horrific.
(30:32):
So if you teach kids what's bad is good, what's
good is bad, they are much more vulnerable to the
likes of anybody, including Tucker Carls and anybody including TikTok.
But if schools, which were supposed to teach kids to think,
to know the truth, to know the canon, to know
(30:54):
the shoulders of the the with the greats on whose
shoulders we stand on what they had thought and taught,
if they are made aware of what all they are given,
they will be inoculated against all this nonsense wherever it
comes from.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Instead, they are.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Unbelievably and criminally vulnerable to what they're being told.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Karen, this is such an important point, we have to
take another break. When we come back. I want to
explore this idea that well, it'll all be okay if
Americans own TikTok, but possibly it still has the same
algorithm and the same ultimate Chinese masters.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I don't think this is going to work out.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Stay tune, we'll talk with Cat sigem at all straight out.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Welcome back to this hour long conversation with doctor Karen Sigimann,
a world class educator, a woman who has her PhD
in the subject and has been practicing it at elementary
school levels and in the course of her various degrees
at other levels as well, and has some profound insights
(32:22):
into what it is we are indoctrinating our children to believe,
or if not we, our enemies are certainly doing. Going
back to the midiest just for a second, Karen, we
were talking about Cutter. Turns out the Kataris are pouring
a fortune into influence operations on college campuses, and that
has translated into radical anti Semitic, in some cases violent
(32:46):
demonstrations against Israel and for that matter, American policy and
the TikTok feed day in and day out is subversive
in the extreme is a theory that has been sort
of in flux. I guess it's fair to say. In
(33:08):
official Washington, the Congress, on a bipartisan overwhelming bi cameral
basis said this platform must be eliminated from the Chinese
sort of puppeteers who have been running it to such
a toxic effect here in favor of an American company
(33:30):
owning it. There's talk about an immense amount of money
being amassed to purchase it, a little bit less clarity
about who might actually be providing kind of the back
end of it. From what you know and what you've seen,
how important is it that this really be deprogrammed from
(33:50):
anything having to do with the Chinese Communist Party?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Well, we need to completely decouple from the Chinese Communist
Party in every way. And why do we know this
Because they've declared war on us. They've declared unrestricted warfare
on us. Ergo, whenever they're connected with is going to
be a part of that. I don't see how there's
any way around it. They declared war, they take action
(34:15):
against us, how are any of those actions going to
be to our benefit? And of course, as we see
in every single arena they're not and again going after
the children and children's minds.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
It's such an obviously effective tactic. How do we know
this too?
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Because their TikTok in China is different from our TikTok here,
and our TikTok here our children here not entirely due
to TikTok, but in part our students are kids. When
asked what their number one aspiration to be is, they
want to be an influencer.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
And I mean, I didn't this isn't.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
My research a celebrity and an influ and in China
it's to be an astronaut, which that used to be
the case here. So we're killing actual aspirational thought in
our children while filling them with such empty vapidity. I
(35:17):
know it's redundant, but it's criminal what we are doing
to our children. We are removing the notion of challenge
from them in innovation aspiration, and we're giving them instead
the most absurd, narcissistic ways of thinking about the world
and themselves, to such an extent that they are committing
(35:38):
suicide at rates that are nothing short of tragic. And
you bring in fentanyl, another Chinese import, if it comes
from China. We need to be extremely wary and cut
it off.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Karen.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
One of the other things that you have done with
great effect at the American Freedom Alliance, and you've sort
of touched on aspects of it here, is assessing the
impact of the so called culture wars on men, on
women and children's I believe could you just give us
(36:17):
a short introduction to the kind of work that the
American Freedom Alliance has been doing, and again, they can
find out much more about it American Freedom Alliance DOG.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
But how does the culture and.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
What's happening to it bear on these national security considerations
among other things.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Well, there is an adage that says politics is downstream
from culture, and I've long believed that the culture, being
what it is, is what creates politics, the particular flavor
of politics at the time. But I think what the
left has done so brilliantly with its long march, our
(36:56):
current Democrat institutions and tactics have really muddied those waters
to such a degree that I don't know that you
can particularly separate them. It's it's not a it looks
like a cultural thing to have men in women's bathrooms,
but the fact of the matter is it's a political
move to say that men can become women, women can
(37:17):
become men. Is a political move to have men and
women's sports. The war on women, which I contend is feminism.
Feminism has been a leftist Marxist tactic war on women
and incidentally on men too. Feminism is absolutely oh and
it's all about undermining the family. The war on men,
(37:39):
the war on fathers, on warriors, on boys, being told
that their their inherent maleness, their masculinity, is a toxic
trait women, the war on women, war on children, that
that somehow there's a possibility of worn in the wrong body,
and of teachers being the arbiters of who decides whether
(38:02):
a child is a boy or a girl and whether
or not it's worth concealing from the parents. So that
the interference by the state, by the nation, by the government,
the interference of the government in the family structure, taking
the position in loco parentis and keeping parents out. That
(38:23):
is a massive war again on Western civilization, on Judeo
Christian values. And as you note, on the family and
the family is the number one element that helps support
everything that we believe in.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
And how do you take it down? You go after
the family.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
You do.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Indeed, in loco parentis, of course, is of fancy Latin
phrase for.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
In places effect in place of.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Parents of the parent.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
And we've done that so much in our government schools,
notably with you've been a teacher, you know firsthand the
influence they can have. And you've seen now increasingly these
stories about really radical leftist teachers in government schools, public
schools who are radicalizing these kids, encouraging them to have
(39:14):
confusion about their genders, and so much else, and and
and if your purpose is to take down the country,
I think this is the connective tissue. All of these
things very much have that in mind, as good cultural
Marxists understand all too well. Karen, our final break, we're
(39:34):
going to come right back and we're going to talk about,
among other things, the war on religion as well with
Karen sigmon Right after this, we're back for this final
(40:03):
installment of our hour long conversation with Karen Sigamund. And
it always flies by when you are having fun, and
we always do have fun with Karen, so good to
have her with us. Thank you again for giving us
generously of your time. Karen, I did want to turn
to one other focus of the cultural Marxist onslaught. Going
(40:27):
back to Marx himself, religion was something that had to
be crushed by, you know, the proletariat or its leaders.
And what we've seen, I think there's no getting around it.
Of late, especially is a spiritual warfare that is being
(40:52):
waged relentlessly against yes, families, and against men and women
and children and all that, but against God not least.
Is your take on all of that, if you want.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
It's absolutely it's absolutely true. And again every dictator knows,
every totalitarian knows, every tyrant knows. You have to remove
God from people's worlds, their lives, their worldview. People cannot
think of anything bigger than themselves. That's not the state.
(41:30):
They can't have any solace anywhere, that's not the state.
They can't seek support from anywhere, that's not the state.
Even recognizing that humans have a desperate need for all
those things. They have a need for solace, They have
a need to be part of something bigger. They have
(41:52):
a need to sense that they're part of something bigger
than the mundane, than the world around them. We have
this need, we need to know purpose, We need to
have a feeling that this it doesn't end when we die,
that there's something bigger, grander, that we're part of, a
(42:12):
bigger hole. And dictators, tyrants all know that the only
way to win is to be that thing that provides
the answer to all of those things. But if you
give people a church or a synagogue or some vehicle
for a belief system that's other than the state, they're
(42:35):
not going to come to the state. So tyrants the
world over have always eliminated God, the church, spirituality generally,
and if you the opiate of the masses, so it's maligned.
And if you recall Obama, President Obama's video about Julia,
who was born, lived her life, died not with family,
(42:57):
not with not with not with God, not with any
of our classic institutions. But the only support she had,
this Julia lady, through this lonely life, the only way
she ever got anywhere was through the aid of the state.
That is their vision, and they can only do it
when you eliminate God. We've seen God taken from schools,
(43:21):
We're seeing God taken from churches. It is a stunning
development for churches to not be allowed to have actual
Catholic Christian Protestant dogma as their guiding light. You can't
have statuary that might have fed.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
So we've seen this especially you touched on it earlier
in communist China with the acquiescence of the Roman Catholic Church.
And one of the things that you've been very helpful
on is an effort we've been making to repeal the
secret deal between the Vatican and the Chinese Communist Party.
(44:01):
And it couldn't be more important now for all the
reasons that you've just mentioned. It is a war not
just on Catholics or even Christians or people of faith
for that matter, in China.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
It is what these.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Well anti christ figures, and I mean that literally in
the person of Hu Jingping have in mind for all
of us, I believe, Karen, I did want to close
with one particular salute to you. In the course of
our five state road show, you came up with a
wonderful metaphor for people to think about the kind of
(44:39):
environment we've just been talking about in the course of
the past hour, the challenges that are out there, and
the fact that most of us are unaware that they loom,
let alone, that they are as well portentous as they
are give us that analogy, if you would and explain.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
So, as we did the road show, and as we
did World War three, World War GI, the parallels between
that and the Cold War that I'd come up in
as had you. One of the parallels was that during
that Cold War, everyone was aware of it. But what
struck me I did come up with the metaphor we
all know the adage, if a tree falls in the
(45:24):
woods and there's nobody there to hear it, does it
still make a sound? The one that crossed my mind was,
if you're in a war but nobody will acknowledge it,
can you still lose? And it just it resonates so
deeply with me, even when I say it, and I've
heard myself say it a number of times, shocking. It's
shocking how people are so completely unaware even as we
(45:47):
have been losing this war fought on every front, the
Left's long march through the institutions. Here, we've got China,
we've got Caughder, we've got men becoming women, all of
all of these attacks and people being unaware what happened
November fifth. Thank god we did get President Trump in
the White House, which means that now we have as
(46:10):
president someone who recognizes the war and who's fighting it
on our side. But that does not at all mean
that the war is over or has been one. It's
our job to ensure that people are aware that we're
in a war, as we did on the road show,
and to show which side is the side of good,
(46:31):
which side is the side of America, a freedom of
Western civilization, and which is the side that wants to
conquer us and enslave.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Us, and as well along the road to accomplishing that.
And I don't mean this is a criticism of President Trump.
I think you're right. He does, in a very visceral way,
understand a lot of what we've just been discussing. I
would urge him, though, to be were forthright and talking
(47:02):
about these problems. And he does in certain respects, to
be sure, But particularly the job that I think is
of paramount importance. We try to do it in our
small way, connecting the dots between these various challenges, global challenges,
the totalitarians, the culture wars, the war on religion, and
(47:25):
so on, to help bring a certain coherence to it
all so that our audience and the American people more
generally can understand what we're up against and what must
be done about it. You do a fabulous job of
that at the American Freedom Alliance.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Keep it up.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
I know you will come back with us very soon anytime.
Check it out at Americanfreedom Alliance dot org. Folks, come
back to us next time. Until then, go forth and multiply.
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